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General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: jingle.boy on March 12, 2021, 12:05:37 PM
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Started ... just because I like to be the one to manage thread titles.
Titles... not titties (though I like those too).
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Can't wait till they reveal it was Mephisto.
Also if they don't introduce the X-Men, Fantastic Four, Alpha Flight, Agents of ATLAS, Galactus, Silver Surfer, all of the abstracts, and Aunt Petunia, then this will be the biggest failure of ALL TIME!
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You forgot another Howard the Duck teaser.
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You forgot another Howard the Duck teaser.
THEY JUST LEFT HIM THERE WITH COSMO THE DOG! WHY ARENT THEY IN EVERYTHING???
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No, he was there in Endgame too.
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No, he was there in Endgame too.
But was Cosmo???
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No, he was there in Endgame too.
But was Cosmo???
No. Only Howard.
But wait -
Howard = Mephisto
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Fantastic Four in the MCU will be...Interesting as the previous incarnations have been... Err...Interesting.
Mind you I hate the Sam Raimi Spiderman films and the Marc Webb ones looked God Awful - basically Spiderman Into Darkness - but far far worse. ( I love Into Darkness btw ) so i never bothered.
And yet I love the Tom Holland films.
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Wrong thread bud. Oddly.
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Can't wait till they reveal it was Mephisto.
Also if they don't introduce the X-Men, Fantastic Four, Alpha Flight, Agents of ATLAS, Galactus, Silver Surfer, all of the abstracts, and Aunt Petunia, then this will be the biggest failure of ALL TIME!
Guess this is too.
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No?
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Ok.
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To be clear Kotow, Adami's post was specifically about Falcon and the Winter Solider, and he was jokingly (or perhaps seriously... :P) setting unreasonable expectations based on some of the expectations that a small portion of the fanbase set for WandaVision.
Whereas your post was a general MCU one, and should be in the general MCU thread as that's exactly what it's for!
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Also my “no?” Was in response to being told to shut the F up. Though it applies to the edited post as well.
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I'll watch this one later with my older son, he is a fan of the Falcon
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Interesting 1st episode. Obviously they're doing two things, showing the post Endgame world and then setting up the series. It feels more Winter Soldier-y in tone and am really curious how it goes. Loved the Winter Soldier's role, his parts were my favorite thing of the episode.
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Show lists as like 47 min. Is this like Wanda where that’s a 25 min episode and 22 min of credits?
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Disney has it listed as 50m. The episode itself is around 40 mins of content with 10 mins of credits
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Disney has it listed as 50m. The episode itself is around 40 mins of content with 10 mins of credits
Yeah this. Decent length episodes. But then I thought the WandaVision episode lengths worked great anyway.
Very enjoyable first episode.
Wasn't really sold on the idea that Sam's sister would be in financial trouble given he's an Avenger but they justified it pretty well later in the episode I guess, although I still feel like it's weird that he doesn't really have any of his own money to help out.
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Disney has it listed as 50m. The episode itself is around 40 mins of content with 10 mins of credits
Yeah this. Decent length episodes. But then I thought the WandaVision episode lengths worked great anyway.
Very enjoyable first episode.
Wasn't really sold on the idea that Sam's sister would be in financial trouble given he's an Avenger but they justified it pretty well later in the episode I guess, although I still feel like it's weird that he doesn't really have any of his own money to help out.
Wasn't it implied that Stark payed for everything? Then after the accords the heroes that didn't sign were cut off or because they went rogue they didn't have a source of income. I don't think they make that much in the military anyway.
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Disney has it listed as 50m. The episode itself is around 40 mins of content with 10 mins of credits
Yeah this. Decent length episodes. But then I thought the WandaVision episode lengths worked great anyway.
Very enjoyable first episode.
Wasn't really sold on the idea that Sam's sister would be in financial trouble given he's an Avenger but they justified it pretty well later in the episode I guess, although I still feel like it's weird that he doesn't really have any of his own money to help out.
Wasn't it implied that Stark payed for everything? Then after the accords the heroes that didn't sign were cut off or because they went rogue they didn't have a source of income. I don't think they make that much in the military anyway.
Yeah I don't know if it's just those who didn't sign the accords, or if it's for heroes more generally. I guess maybe heroes being treated a bit like "thanks for your help, off you go now" might be a part of this post-blip society, so those who don't already have their own money/powers will find it harder to get by.
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Solid first episode....not much story building, but some really serious foundation laid.
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Solid. The people stuff worked really well, I thought. The money issues and Bucky's date were very good.
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Solid first episode....not much story building, but some really serious foundation laid.
Agreed. I’m liking the real ness of them as human beings.
I also like the thought of dual antagonists.
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Kinda meh on the first episode. I guess I like the sci-fi/fantasy side of MCU more, but I start mentally checking out at the "soldiers in the middle east" setting especially when the military jargon starts flying. It just comes across so phony. It did get better as it went though.
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Eh, although pretty predictable, I kind of enjoyed the opening action sequence, been a while since we've seen a good, long drawn out MCU battle.
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I loved it. In fact, it surpassed my expectations.
I keep thinking at some point they will drop the exposition and the spending time getting to know what the characters are going through (you know, the more “human” angle of the MCU that makes it so great) and just go for the cheap and easy “here’s the good guys, here’s the bad guys, now here’s some explosions” approach. But they are still taking the time to slow things down and get to the heart of what the characters are going through.
As long as they keep that part up, I’m all in.
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I keep thinking at some point they will drop the exposition and the spending time getting to know what the characters are going through (you know, the more “human” angle of the MCU that makes it so great) and just go for the cheap and easy “here’s the good guys, here’s the bad guys, now here’s some explosions” approach. But they are still taking the time to slow things down and get to the heart of what the characters are going through.
Agreed. As a small-screen series, I don't mind this at all. Though, I don't think I realized it was only 6 episodes. Loved the (short) return of GSP / Baltroc. Some of that action sequence was just a little TOO over the top for a mere mortal (with a mini-drone) to be conducting. It's a bit contrived when you try to dive into the 'more human' side of Sam while at the same time having him perform such inhuman moves in the action sequence.
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I thought it was fantastic.
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Another very solid episode, with a good surprise at the end. They're definitely putting some big pieces in play, very curious to see it develop further.
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Really enjoying it so far, completely different style to WandaVision but great in a different way.
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That fight scene with the trucks was fantastic. Loved that ending.
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That fight scene with the trucks was fantastic. Loved that ending.
Hell yeah... I knew it was coming as soon as Bucky mentioned there was a person that knew all of Hydra's secrets.
I like how things are starting to be setup, and am eagerly anticipating how they'll unfold.
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So this is a TV too? Where does this fit in? Should I be watching this now, or holding off?
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So this is a TV too? Where does this fit in? Should I be watching this now, or holding off?
Yes. It’s a TV show. There will be only 6 episodes IIRC, and episode 2 was just released yesterday. And the events take place 6 months after everyone coming back from “the blip”
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So this is a TV too? Where does this fit in? Should I be watching this now, or holding off?
You'll have to finish the avengers movies. Both the marvel shows so far happen after the Endgame movie
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I've watched the first two episodes, and I think it's all pretty good so far. We checked to see if there were any bonus features or anything, and there were the four "Legends" things from before. Wanda, Vision, Falcon, and The Winter Soldier. We'd seen the first two, but didn't realize there were some for Falcon and The Winter Soldier, but it made sense and we checked them out. This was a week or so ago. Then the other day, there were two more, for Sharon Carter and Zemo. Momentarily tabling the question of whether or not Sharon and Zemo are "legends", we checked them out as well, as it appears that they will figure into this series. It was good to review some of the plot points from the movies that they'd each been a part of.
It all made me realize how much background was laid in the movies, background I'd forgotten, so I watched Civil War today for the second time. The first time was way back during the original run, when we were basically watching them as they came out. I remember Civil War being really long and having nearly all the characters in it that they'd introduced (Ant-Man, Spider-Man, and Black Panther were all basically pulled into the Avengers storyline here), but I'd forgotten most of the details. It's a good one to re-watch, since it looks like the series is going to follow up on Zemo and Sharon. Also, I'd forgotten that Sam and Bucky had already encountered each other and had a few run-ins, and they pretty much happened here, too.
Anyway, I like that The Falcon and The Winter Soldier has a different "feel" from WandaVision. More action, more "cinematic", but still bringing the character beats. Also it feels different because the episodes are longer, but there will be fewer of them, so each one packs a bit more punch.
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It's not as good as Wandavision so far but it's a perfectly fine B-tier show that you can watch and enjoy without anything deeper to it.
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So anyone else think they might switch things up and make Zemo one of the good guys since he hates super soldiers?
Might eventually even lead to a Thunderbolts thing.
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So anyone else think they might switch things up and make Zemo one of the good guys since he hates super soldiers?
Might eventually even lead to a Thunderbolts thing.
I just thought the SS’s in Civil War was a means to an end. I never came away with the sense he fundamentally hated SS’s.
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So anyone else think they might switch things up and make Zemo one of the good guys since he hates super soldiers?
Might eventually even lead to a Thunderbolts thing.
I just thought the SS’s in Civil War was a means to an end. I never came away with the sense he fundamentally hated SS’s.
He killed them all. I think he even spoke out against wanting more of them. I don’t know if he used them out of hatred but he definitely didn’t want more of them.
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So this is a TV too? Where does this fit in? Should I be watching this now, or holding off?
Hold off until you finish the films.
Everything coming out now (except the Black Widow film) is set after the already-released films. So finish those up.
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So this is a TV too? Where does this fit in? Should I be watching this now, or holding off?
Two episodes in and I have a sneaking suspicion you will not end up liking this show very much. :lol
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It's not as good as Wandavision so far but it's a perfectly fine B-tier show that you can watch and enjoy without anything deeper to it.
I think the first two episodes are better than the first two episodes WV personally. But WV did get much better, whereas I'm not sure this has the same scope for growth.
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I think the first two episodes are better than the first two episodes WV personally. But WV did get much better, whereas I'm not sure this has the same scope for growth.
Well, we've gotten twice as much story in this show as in the first 2 episodes WandaVision. For a similar place in the story, you'd need to compare to the first 4 episodes of WV. Personally, I see these D+ shows as more like 6-hour movies than traditional tv shows. It's hard to judge a movie after just seeing Act 1.
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I think the first 3 episodes of WandaVision and the first 2 episodes TFaTWS might be a better comparison. We're 1/3 of the way through TFaTWS which has six episodes, and WandaVision had nine episodes.
After three episodes of WandaVision I was intrigued, but still had no idea what the fuck was going on. But the original plan for WandaVision included dropping the first three episodes at once, then episode 4 the second week. All the WTF with the first three episodes would've been resolved when "act 2" kicked things into gear a week later. Instead, the WTF was drawn out for nearly a month and I was pretty close to bailing.
The first episode of TFaTWS was obviously laying the groundwork, but started right off with a good old-fashioned Marvel action sequence. Episode 2 brought them together and we already have a good idea where we're going with things. It's still the end of "act 1" and things look to start getting serious this week, but it has a much different feel from WandaVision. But that's also by design. They are very different shows with very different approaches to storytelling.
Also possibly of note is that TFaTWS was originally going to air first. It was ready to go last year when all the Covid shit came down. That also means that all the references to racism in TFaTWS were scripted and shot before all the racism-related events of last year, which I find interesting.
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What I like about this show thus far and WandaVision is that as someone who doesn't know all the 'easter eggs' and isn't a massive MCU buff.....just an 'average' viewer.....I can still watch it and enjoy it. I'm sure those out there who have a more vast knowledge of that universe and what not can spot things and may enjoy it more....but for me, I'm just glad I can watch it and not feel like I'm missing something.
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What I like about this show thus far and WandaVision is that as someone who doesn't know all the 'easter eggs' and isn't a massive MCU buff.....just an 'average' viewer.....I can still watch it and enjoy it. I'm sure those out there who have a more vast knowledge of that universe and what not can spot things and may enjoy it more....but for me, I'm just glad I can watch it and not feel like I'm missing something.
I'm just glad I have jingle.son to fill in some of those blanks/eggs for me. He does all the spoiler-y background research and such.
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What I like about this show thus far and WandaVision is that as someone who doesn't know all the 'easter eggs' and isn't a massive MCU buff.....just an 'average' viewer.....I can still watch it and enjoy it. I'm sure those out there who have a more vast knowledge of that universe and what not can spot things and may enjoy it more....but for me, I'm just glad I can watch it and not feel like I'm missing something.
I think I’ve posted this before, but I’ve been saying since phase two that this is the bare essence of “comic book storytelling” that until the MCU, no one had really tried to recreate.
You didn’t even have to like Thor. But if you were reading a Spidey comic and Thor showed up mentioning that he just came from a such and such place/adventure...it would have an asterisk with a footnote referencing the Thor comic book where you could read about the adventure he was talking about...but not knowing didn’t effect the Spidey story at all. It was just a side note that might give Thor’s presence more meaning. Or whatever...rearrange and solve for X as you please...but the idea of a bigger world being referenced without bringing down the story you’re currently reading (watching).
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You didn’t even have to like Thor. But if you were reading a Spidey comic and Thor showed up mentioning that he just came from a such and such place/adventure...it would have an asterisk with a footnote referencing the Thor comic book where you could read about the adventure he was talking about...but not knowing didn’t effect the Spidey story at all. It was just a side note that might give Thor’s presence more meaning. Or whatever...rearrange and solve for X as you please...but the idea of a bigger world being referenced without bringing down the story you’re currently reading (watching).
Exactly.
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This is great so far. I was fine with ep 1 but number 2 really pulled me in. Great character work.
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Another solid episode, they're really developing this nicely. Great surprise at the end, very curious to see how this wraps up.
This one is only 6 episodes, right?
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Another solid episode, they're really developing this nicely. Great surprise at the end, very curious to see how this wraps up.
This one is only 6 episodes, right?
Agreed. I totally was not expecting that ending. I mean, it wasn't as surprising as Evan Peters showing up in WV, but it got a decent :o out of me.
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Another solid episode, they're really developing this nicely. Great surprise at the end, very curious to see how this wraps up.
This one is only 6 episodes, right?
Agreed. I totally was not expecting that ending. I mean, it wasn't as surprising as Evan Peters showing up in WV, but it got a decent :o out of me.
Yup, and I love her character too.
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I went back and watched Civil War on Thursday in preparation for this weeks episode. Proved to be a very good idea. Made the episode that much more enjoyable. I needed the refresher.
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I like how the plot of each episode is tied so heavily to previous Captain America movies. It's making things very intriguing. Though there were some scenes that felt kinda odd in the last episode like them walking on the bridge and getting picked up, it just felt so weird. That and the lab interrogation, something about the way it was edited. Minor gripes aside, Zemo was fantastic throughout the episode and the highlight for me.
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I went back and watched Civil War on Thursday in preparation for this weeks episode. Proved to be a very good idea. Made the episode that much more enjoyable. I needed the refresher.
Yeah, there was one particular callback in yesterday's episode (no spoiler!) that had both myself and Mrs. Orbert laughing out loud. It was great. :lol
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I went back and watched Civil War on Thursday in preparation for this weeks episode. Proved to be a very good idea. Made the episode that much more enjoyable. I needed the refresher.
Yeah, there was one particular callback in yesterday's episode (no spoiler!) that had both myself and Mrs. Orbert laughing out loud. It was great. :lol
Which one are you referring to?
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It’s my understanding that this is the “spoiler thread”, no?
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I think so, but with WandaVision we usually waited until after the weekend when a new episode dropped before getting spoilerish. That kinda crumbled a bit towards the end though, I think.
Anyway, it had to do with sitting in a car, who's in the back seat, who's in front, and refusing to move the seat up. 'Twas a great callback. There were lots of great callbacks, but this one was light-hearted and funny.
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Ah yes. That got a big belly laugh in my house as well!
:rollin :rollin
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Yeah, that callback was great. Not surprising that there's so much reference back to the Cap movies, since Falcon and Winter Soldier are so tightly intertwined with Cap in the comics as well.
I like the direction they're giving Sharon - much more edge to her, and I'm looking forward to her return. Ayo showing up was entirely unexpected, and makes things much more interesting.
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Agreed, the episode was fantastic. I loved the introduction of Madripoor as a location - it was heavily associated with the X-Men and other mutants in the comics, so this could just be a way of laying the foundation for their eventual introduction into the MCU.
Zemo's dancing skills though
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I've seen this mentioned elsewhere, but Mackie and Stan really have some awesome chemistry. The whole comedic buddy cop kind of thing they have going is fantastic. I would love if this 6 episodes weren't the end, but I fear this is all we'll get. Would love another few seasons.
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Zemo's dancing skills though
Just glorious, I'm sure it'll be a stock gif in no time.
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Kinda zoned out in the last episode, didn't really get into it.
I got mixed feelings on this show overall so far. I really enjoy the buddy cop element and the banter between Falcon and Bucky, and the addition of Zemo was enjoying to watch as well. What doesn't work as well for me is the story telling and the plot doesn't feel super interesting, but how it's told just feels very weird. Every stand alone episode so far feels almost irrelevant compared to the previous, they introduce some lame "we gotta go to X to do Y" thing so they can add some action scenes but the end of it, the story doesn't progress in a satisfying way imo.
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I didn't enjoy ep 3 as much as 2 but didn't dislike it at all. I like that both characters and actors are getting fleshed out. I dig them both a ton more now.
It's tonally a bit uneven and I agree that the plot feels kinda bolted together rather than naturally flowing but I'm happy enough with it.
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Well that was an intense episode and ending, I kind of saw that turn coming but they handled it really well. Can't wait for next week, this shit is getting really good.
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Holy SHIT! what an episode! the action in that last episode 4 was intense! Story for me has been kinda iffy so far and I'm hoping it connects well together by the end but man the action so far has been fantastic.
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Enjoyed that one.
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Well that was an intense episode and ending, I kind of saw that turn coming but they handled it really well. Can't wait for next week, this shit is getting really good.
Yeah, ya just knew he was gonna go off the rails. The show did a really excellent job of building up to it though. Best episode so far, and jingle.son tells me it's only going to get more intense over the final 2 episodes.
(https://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/100/dis%20gon%20be%20good.gif)
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I love how the shows are nailing the more emotional moments, how the writing is evolving so good. Between the 'love persevering' scene from WandaVision and the scene with them proving Bucky is finally free of his conditioning, they provided two of the best scenes in all Marvel in my opinion.
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I agree. That was some powerful shit. Also shows how tightly connected he is to the Wakandans.
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The extra time for character development and emotional moments are what are really setting the D+ shows apart from the MCU movies I think. Seeing these heroes and villains as people with complex motivations, thoughts and feelings is a welcome expansion on the previous MCU movies. Hopefully that continues.
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Yep, episode 4 was fantastic. That final shot of Walker holding the bloody shield was fantastic.
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Mrs. Orbert, myself, and Son of Orbert got into something like a three-way argument about John Walker. We all have different positions on how much of a "good guy", "bad guy", or whatever you might want to call him. I see a guy who didn't necessary want what was thrust upon him, and has made some mistakes, sure, but has had good intentions every step of the way. He was put into a pretty impossible situation; live up to the Captain America legacy of Steve Rogers. My wife just thinks he's an asshole and evil, and killing the dude with the shield proves that. I agree that he's an asshole, killing the dude was wrong, but he'd just seen his best friend killed by these people, and IMO every one of them is a terrorist. Maybe they didn't start out that way, but when Karli blew up the building with all those people inside, they crossed the line, and The Flag Smashers are all guilty now by association.
Mrs. O says he should've given Sam those ten minutes to talk to Karli. Yeah, probably. Sam seemed to be getting somewhere with her. But from there it got out of control. When all the vials except one were destroyed, I figured he pick it up, just in case. Yep. Then I said out loud that they'll get into it, and he'll feel like he has no choice but to take the serum. Yep. Then something bad will happen. Not sure what, but something. Yep. And now shit is bad, really bad.
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I agree with your view that, he is not necessarily a bad guy, but has a lot of pressure on him to follow up on Steve rogers, and therefore making poor decisions. I would not say that he did not want it (the shield), I just think he did not realized what it meant to become Captain American. He feels he has to be a leader and get people to follow him and respect him, but he has no idea how to do that, specially with Bucky and Sam.
We will see, I think the show is going to lead to "battle for the shield" at the end between him and Sam.
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That opening scene in Wakanda with Bucky and Ayo was quite possibly one of the strongest emotional and most well-acted moments in all of the MCU. The use of the flashbacks from the all the films Bucky has been in was used to powerful effect, and his acting chops were Emmy-worthy, especially the look up he gives to Ayo when she says "You are free", as if he's making sure he is, just before she says it again to reassure him. Powerful and moving stuff.
Also props to Wyatt Russell for being so dedicated to a character that was slowly going off the rails. You could tell in every scene he was in that he was visibly twitching or shaking some part of his body, or looking very anxious, sometimes very subtly so, but it just adds to how slowly and steadily he was changing, especially after taking that last serum. He is full of angst and shame, anger and fear, but as others have said here, he was thrust into an impossible position, and sadly, he's used almost every opportunity he's had to look good and ended up looking worse. That final shot of the shield is definitely one of the scariest in all of the MCU, just for shock factor alone, but it really kind of speaks to the idea that a weapon and symbol in the wrong hands, regardless of how noble or powerful it is, can still become tainted, and sometimes all it takes is one bad thing to set someone off.
Gotta pour one out for Battlestar, though. It sucks that he had to go, but I understand that it was for the sake of getting Walker to the point he ended the episode at. Ironic, that the guy Walker kills, was a fan of Captain America because his grandfather also faught in WWII against the Nazis, but he ends up being killed by the shield he probably grew up idolizing.
I cannot imagine how things will go as we enter the third act (episodes 5 and 6), but there's a lot to wrap up in these last two episdes: Who exactly is the powerbroker? How will Sam and Bucky get the shield back (as seen in promotional trailers)? Will Torres ever come back (and become the 2nd Falcon like in the comics)? Will we see old-man-Steve on the Moon?
-Marc.
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Who exactly is the powerbroker?
I was thinking that that could possibly end up being a setup for an upcoming film. I mean, these episodes are definitely long enough where we could get a reveal and satisfying resolution by the end. But it could also just as easily be a setup for the Power Broker being the big-bad in an upcoming film.
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Who exactly is the powerbroker?
I was thinking that that could possibly end up being a setup for an upcoming film. I mean, these episodes are definitely long enough where we could get a reveal and satisfying resolution by the end. But it could also just as easily be a setup for the Power Broker being the big-bad in an upcoming film.
There are rumors that it might be tied to the villain of Shang-Chi, which I could believe. This series was always going to come out before Shang-Chi anyway, so the set-up would have been intact. If we don't find out in this series, that's fine, but only so long as we find out EVENTUALLY who it is. There are few dangling threads in the MCU that bother me, but this would be one of them!
-Marc.
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An interesting rumor I've seen bandied about is that the Power Broker is Sharon Carter.
I don't believe it, but that would be interesting.
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An interesting rumor I've seen bandied about is that the Power Broker is Sharon Carter.
I don't believe it, but that would be interesting.
I've heard that too, but it just doesn't make sense, because it clearly seems like she is working FOR (or under) the Powerbroker. Also, she was dusted in the five year gap, and it would be weird for her to amass the power that the Powerbroker seems to have around Madripoor (and the world, it seems) in just six short months. I think she came back in the blip, went on the run to Madripoor, and then got hired by the Powerbroker because of her situation and unique skill set. The way she handled those goons in episode 3, you can tell she's been in some fights, and definitely would be a good go-fer for someone like the Powerbroker.
-Marc.
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First of all, yes the episode was amazing. As much as I liked episode 3, it did feel pretty rushed and jolted. This one was pretty perfect. The character work they're doing is incredible and I really didn't expect it. I just kind of expected a typical well done action show.
As far as Sharon being the power broker, from what I've read, she was blipped along with half the world. So unless she became the power broken in a few weeks, I don't see it necessarily being her in a way that makes much sense.
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That's why it's a twist!
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That's why it's a twist!
True!
She also got her super serum maker killed. Seems like she'd be a very bad power broker.
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That's why it's a twist!
True!
She also got her super serum maker killed. Seems like she'd be a very bad power broker.
Good point - if he was so important to the Powerbroker, she definitely would not have let him die so easily, especially letting Zemo anywhere near him considering his hatred for super soldiers was fairly well known by those around him.
I think she'll definitely have to answer for letting him die, though, either by paying for it with her own life, or with Zemo's life. I can see her and the Dora Milaje trying to capture Zemo by the end of the series as Bucky and Sam figure out what to do about Walker at the shield's legacy. Also, I hope we see the Bradleys one more time before the series ends.
-Marc.
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How do we actually know that she was blipped? Because she said so?
And if she was the Power Broker but didn't want people to know, the obvious thing to do would be pretend that she works for and is afraid of him/her.
So yeah I don't have any particular expectation that it is the case, but I do think it's plausible and would be a cool twist.
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Who exactly is the powerbroker?
I was thinking that that could possibly end up being a setup for an upcoming film. I mean, these episodes are definitely long enough where we could get a reveal and satisfying resolution by the end. But it could also just as easily be a setup for the Power Broker being the big-bad in an upcoming film.
There are rumors that it might be tied to the villain of Shang-Chi, which I could believe. This series was always going to come out before Shang-Chi anyway, so the set-up would have been intact. If we don't find out in this series, that's fine, but only so long as we find out EVENTUALLY who it is. There are few dangling threads in the MCU that bother me, but this would be one of them!
-Marc.
The big bad in Shang-Chi is supposed to be The Mandarin. The *actual* Mandarin this time.
Now, as to whether or not those two ideas could be related, I have no idea.
Power Broker = The Mandarin????
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How do we actually know that she was blipped? Because she said so?
And if she was the Power Broker but didn't want people to know, the obvious thing to do would be pretend that she works for and is afraid of him/her.
So yeah I don't have any particular expectation that it is the case, but I do think it's plausible and would be a cool twist.
I do believe she was seen as one of the missing in the beginning of Endgame.
(https://i.redd.it/wxj1sblnk4d31.png)
Granted, she was still around for about two years between Civil War and the snap in Infinity War, so she may have amassed some influence in that time, but to be gone for five years and come back and still be the Powerbroker seems unlikely, especially since the balance of powers around the globe changed drastically.
Who exactly is the powerbroker?
I was thinking that that could possibly end up being a setup for an upcoming film. I mean, these episodes are definitely long enough where we could get a reveal and satisfying resolution by the end. But it could also just as easily be a setup for the Power Broker being the big-bad in an upcoming film.
There are rumors that it might be tied to the villain of Shang-Chi, which I could believe. This series was always going to come out before Shang-Chi anyway, so the set-up would have been intact. If we don't find out in this series, that's fine, but only so long as we find out EVENTUALLY who it is. There are few dangling threads in the MCU that bother me, but this would be one of them!
-Marc.
The big bad in Shang-Chi is supposed to be The Mandarin. The *actual* Mandarin this time.
Now, as to whether or not those two ideas could be related, I have no idea.
Power Broker = The Mandarin????
It definitely is a theory I've seen a lot about. The Ten Rings have had a lot of reach in the MCU over the years, between their appearance in Iron Man, and seeing a Ten Rings supporter among the guys wanting to buy Yellowjacket tech in Ant-Man, the REAL Mandarin could have power enough to be the Powerbroker in disguise. Madripoor is in South East Asia, so there could be a close connection to the Ten Rings there. And with Shang-Chi coming out this year, it wouldn't surprise me if this was a set-up for that film. The Mandarin being the Powerbroker just seems as likely as Sharon.
-Marc.
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Jingle.son said there’s also a theory it’s General Ross.
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Jingle.son said there’s also a theory it’s General Ross.
I dunno. He also seems like the kind of guy who wants complete control and oversight. I guess maybe if they invent that during the blip he went crazy or something, but the Ross we all know wouldn't be the power broker. It's just outside of his character.
I'd be fine if it's not someone we already know.
Or....IT'S MEPHISTO!
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EVERYTHING IS MEPHISTO
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WHY IS MEPHISTO?
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The Power Broker is Senor Scratchy.
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How do we actually know that she was blipped? Because she said so?
And if she was the Power Broker but didn't want people to know, the obvious thing to do would be pretend that she works for and is afraid of him/her.
So yeah I don't have any particular expectation that it is the case, but I do think it's plausible and would be a cool twist.
I do believe she was seen as one of the missing in the beginning of Endgame.
Missing, sure. Doesn't mean she was blipped.
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The Power Broker is going to be Luis from Ant-Man.
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The Power Broker is going to be Luis from Ant-Man.
It will be explained by him like in the 1st movie. Mad skillz.
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"The power broker" is a horrible nickname.
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How do we actually know that she was blipped? Because she said so?
And if she was the Power Broker but didn't want people to know, the obvious thing to do would be pretend that she works for and is afraid of him/her.
So yeah I don't have any particular expectation that it is the case, but I do think it's plausible and would be a cool twist.
I do believe she was seen as one of the missing in the beginning of Endgame.
Missing, sure. Doesn't mean she was blipped.
That's what I've seen as well. I don't know if I buy it, but it could work. Sharon went AWOL when things went to hell, and it was just assumed she was blipped. Scott Lang (Ant-Man) was also assumed blipped, and he was in the quantum realm.
Basically, whoever determined who was blipped was not infallable. Heck, there were probably more than a few people who took the opportunity to disappear and start up somewhere else. Half the world's population gone, mass chaos and outright anarchy in some places, who knows? Maybe Sharon spent five years building up a new identity as The Power Broker. Again, I don't buy it, but it's not completely impossible.
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I don't think Marvel has ever relied on "Well...we didn't TECHNICALLY say...." kind of stuff. But who knows?
I also don't know what Sharon's motivation would be. She was always presented as a good person who wanted to help. I dunno why she would suddenly handing out super serum and empowering terrorists. Is it possible? I guess sure. But it would seem very very out of left field and, honestly, kind of disappointing.
I don't know why it has to be someone we already know. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I just hope this doesn't turn into a Mephisto or Quicksilver thing. Where people spend weeks building up theories only to have a very....less than satisfying answer to it.
"It was just some dude all along."
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What if the power broker was Howard the Duck? :corn
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What if the power broker was Howard the Duck? :corn
Dammit. Now I’ll be disappointed if it’s anyone else.
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What if the power broker was Howard the Duck? :corn
Dammit. Now I’ll be disappointed if it’s anyone else.
Same.
Perhaps Forbush Man?
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I don't think Marvel has ever relied on "Well...we didn't TECHNICALLY say...." kind of stuff. But who knows?
I also don't know what Sharon's motivation would be. She was always presented as a good person who wanted to help. I dunno why she would suddenly handing out super serum and empowering terrorists. Is it possible? I guess sure. But it would seem very very out of left field and, honestly, kind of disappointing.
Yeah, but she was a fugitive on the run after the events of Civil War so in general I could see her taking on a role like that as a local crime boss, though I agree the handing out super serum stuff would be a bit different and a weird turn for the character. But if that is where they go with it, there could be a good explanation (like it wasn't really her distributing the serum, or some such).
I don't know why it has to be someone we already know. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I just hope this doesn't turn into a Mephisto or Quicksilver thing. Where people spend weeks building up theories only to have a very....less than satisfying answer to it.
"It was just some dude all along."
Yeah for sure, like I say I'm not particularly expecting that it is the case, just that it's perfectly plausible if they do go down that route.
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Nice looking spot for tomorrow's episode - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3_-XYOYQQA
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Holy shit what a beginning for that episode! This was by far the best and favorite episode so far. Longest too, I love Sam and Bucky's character development in the series and this episode was the epitome.
Should be and excellent showdown next week for the finale!
Also the first mid credits scene of the series.
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Another nice episode. Seems like there should be more than one episode left.
One observation I made watching this morning, is that the extended hand-to-hand combat sequences do nothing for me. We've seen hundreds of them at this point in MCU movies/shows. I guess there have to be fights in super hero stories, but to me it's just getting old.
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I get that sentiment, but if they're done well I don't have any complaints. I've enjoyed all the ones shown so far in the series.
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Haven't watched Episode 5 yet. Really hoping they bring back Isaiah Bradley either in this show or one of his own later based on his limited series from 2003, 'Truth: Red, White & Black'. Russell really is doing a great job of making me hate Walker. I didn't like him when they first introduced the character. And, I certainly don't like him after he quickly goes down the dark path into the character he becomes in the comics. I can't wait to watch Episode 5 this weekend and see how things escalate.
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Haven't watched Episode 5 yet. Really hoping they bring back Isaiah Bradley either in this show or one of his own later based on his limited series from 2003, 'Truth: Red, White & Black'. Russell really is doing a great job of making me hate Walker. I didn't like him when they first introduced the character. And, I certainly don't like him after he quickly goes down the dark path into the character he becomes in the comics. I can't wait to watch Episode 5 this weekend and see how things escalate.
You’ll like episode 5.
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I get that sentiment, but if they're done well I don't have any complaints. I've enjoyed all the ones shown so far in the series.
Most of them are done well. They're all a little longer than my attention span can handle these days. At least there's not a ton of cgi involved with this.shkw which helps ground the scenes in reality more.
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Absolutely outstanding episode.
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Wow. Best episode so far. To me, this series was a bit clunky through the first three (and there are specific reasons for that). But 4 was really good, and 5 was great. I really thought they were going to kill Sara at the end. It really seemed like they were foreshadowing it when Sam and Bucky mentioned that Carli won't stop, and then next scene, Sara is on the dock with Sam. Glad it didn't end that way (although it could be coming.
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The intro was ; the rest of the episode was better. The realism and character development is what is making this series.
Really looking forward for the suit reveal
Oh, and JLD's role as the anti-Fury. That sprouts yet another limb for the MCU Tree of Life
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I kinda think the finale ended as the typical Marvel movie ending. I was at least expecting it to somewhat deviate but mostly closed loops and introduced some new threads. Will have to stew on this a bit.
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I thought the finale was pretty good - there were some great moments involving Sam. I was kind of underwhelmed by one reveal, but the post-credits scene kind of alleviated those feelings a bit, but now I have even more questions regarding that.
My only gripe was that I wish the finale had been a bit longer and we had gotten a bit more screen time for some characters, but it is what it is. I wonder if they're planning a second season? Seems like they've left enough pieces on the board for them to set up another run, especially if some of these characters and plot points can't work into any upcoming films (and looking at the slate of films for the next 2-3 years, it doesn't seem like it).
And yeah, I've been purposely vague in my thoughts here because I don't want to give out too many spoilers just yet, but once a few more folks in here watch it, I'll be sure to discuss things a bit more openly. Compared to WandaVision, I think this finale was just as good, and maybe a bit better in terms of wrapping (some) things up, but I'll say it didn't hit me as hard emotionally (except for a couple of Sam-related moments, but those emotions were for different reasons). Still, definitely a great way to end the season!
-Marc.
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Solid finish for sure... Great emotional scenes with Bucky's amends and with the 'black man carrying the stars and stripea' speech, some really good writing, and Mackie actually pulled it off for someone who is not the greatest of emotional actors in my personal opinion.
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Solid finish for sure... Great emotional scenes with Bucky's amends and with the 'black man carrying the stars and stripea' speech, some really good writing, and Mackie actually pulled it off for someone who is not the greatest of emotional actors in my personal opinion.
Agreed with the bold above. I like him as an actor but he's not known for his acting chops. He has some charisma and 'looks' great.....but he did a fine job with the speech at the end.
Fun series, lots of little open ended avenues to explore in the future as well.
On a side note....after watching Sebastian Stan in these episodes the resemblance to a young Mark Hammill is indeed there. I'd 100% buy in on him being Luke Skywalker if they were to try and pull that off. In fact, I''m a little bummed they didn't use him in the Finale of S2 to get that ball rolling.
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Yeah, he's a solid actiin actor for sure... But the line blurs really quickly after that.
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The mid-credits scene only makes sense if they are doing another season or setting up a movie tie-in. Otherwise, what’s the point?
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I got serious 'Peter Capaldi giving an epic speech in Doctor Who' kind of vibe from Sam's big speech. The Isaiah stuff was pretty heavy and very satisfying.
I am struggling with Sharon's turn. I get she's had it rough, but it seems so wrong to me. Peggy would not be pleased, neither would Steve.
Props to Bucky's, 'sorry, I was texting and just heard black and America' jab. That was hilarious.
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Pretty decent finale (I enjoyed the WV finale much more). As others have said, THE speech was great | though I thought it started a little corny (the speech, AND Macke’s delivery), but once it got going, it was excellent. Really fantastic scene and writing.
I’m gonna love JLD as Madame Hydra. Hope there’s more of that to come.
As for Sharon ..... I was disappointed in her being the Power Broker .... though given the mid-credit scene, maybe she’s just a pawn of the real power broker? Also, jingle.son threw out the idea that she’s a Skrull.
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The mid-credits scene only makes sense if they are doing another season or setting up a movie tie-in. Otherwise, what’s the point?
Well Captain America 4 was just announced earlier today with the show-runner and a writer from TFWATS at the helm. No word on director(s), but it'd be great if the Russo's could come back.
-Marc.
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That was fine. Not blown away. Slightly underwhelmed but not unhappy. General, non-spoiling thoughts:
The series was a bit patchy.
I didn't feel anything about Sharon or the Flag Smashers. Didn't get why Sharon was in it, actually. Felt like she was just bolted on.
Nice to see more Bucky and Sam. I feel like they were both fleshed out well.
The overriding racial theme was handled well.
6/10
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I feel about the same regarding the finale. It wound things up well, did a decent job, but I can't say I was blown away, either. I don't feel like I had enough time/reason to care about some of the characters and ideas in the show, not enough to have the impact I think they were going for. Some interesting ideas for sure, but not developed enough. Maybe it would have felt better paced at nine or 10 shows, not just six. Instead we sometimes moved from point to point too quickly for everything to really sink in.
I didn't realize going into this series that it's the "Sam Wilson is the new Captain America" origin story. I just figured it was some cool adventures that Sam and Bucky found themselves in, post Infinity War. And I was fine with that. It quickly became obvious that the show is more than that, and had a lot to say. Most of it was said quite well, but (and I know I'm repeating myself) some of it felt rushed and didn't earn the beats it was trying for.
Pretty good overall, though. Certainly not a waste of time.
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Yeah, I kind of agree with the thoughts in the last two posts. It was a good finale, but not great. I enjoyed it just fine, but wasn't blown away. And that's fine.
I thought Sam's speech was...just okay as well. At first, I felt like the social justice stuff was a bit too hamfisted. But by the end, I actually thought it worked, and there were a lot of important things said. Yeah, it was a bit preachy, but the points really were good ones. I think the problem, if any, was that it was a bit clunky and didn't really work as a dialog. Sam's speech, in and of itself, was good. But the dialog between him and the senators as a whole needed more from the senators. It kind of felt like:
-Sam makes a good point, then pauses.
-Senator either says something weak and pointless or doesn't say anything at all.
-Sam: "Um...well then...er...I'll keep talking then..." [takes a bit to wind up, but eventually makes another good point, then pauses]
-Senator either says something weak and pointless or doesn't say anything at all.
-Sam: "Um...well then...er...I'll keep talking then..." [takes a bit to wind up, but eventually makes another good point, then pauses]
Etc.
Anyway, just nitpicking a bit. Again, I enjoyed it.
There were some good ideas laid down early on, but I wasn't really hooked. The show started off "good, but not great," but kept getting better and better. I felt episode 5 was outstanding. And then the finale was a step back down, which led to some of the underwhelmingness if it.
But one more important thing that kind of goes along with the pacing, clunkiness, and slight underwhelmingness:
I don't feel like I had enough time/reason to care about some of the characters and ideas in the show, not enough the have the impact I think they were going for. Some interesting ideas for sure, but not developed enough. Maybe it would have felt better paced at nine or 10 shows, not just six.
Part of what you are feeling might be because of the length of the series. But there is something else at play as well that you might not be aware of that definitely left me feeling like there were some ideas that didn't get fleshed out as well as maybe they should have given what they were going for. So here's the deal: Principle shooting was basically done pre-Covid. Once the pandemic and resulting lockdowns happened, they made some major changes to the story. For example, there was supposed to be this entire thread of a mysterious virus, possibly unleashed by the Flag Smashers. That was supposed to have been what killed the matriarch whose funeral was so pivotal in the early episode. But given what was going on, the squashed that whole storyline. And there were some other things they changed as well. But the problem was that they were limited in their ability to do a lot of reshoots. So they did a lot of editing in post, and added in other dialog that wasn't originally there (where you don't actually see anyone talking, and they just add the voice). That partially explains some of the clunkiness and the fact that some things felt underbaked a bit. I'm not really sure they NEEDED to change any of that. But they felt they needed to, and we got what we got as a result. And I think the final product is still really good. But it did suffer a bit due to those circumstances. And given all that, I'm willing to give them a pass. As with pretty much anything in the MCU, it's still TONS better than the vast majority of superhero/comics-based movies or shows we got at any point prior to the MCU.
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Same sentiment here, there were stronger episodes during the season but the finale sorta paled compared to them. Same complaints about the Flag Smashers, didn't really fully connect with them.
One thing I was a bit puzzle on how the finale handled the Sam reveal of Captain America.. didn't he need that Senate panel's permission to use the Shield as Captain America? I mean they made a big fuss with Walker and his conduct and they unveiled him so I thought the same applies to Sam?
I think they definitely needed more episodes to flesh out some story lines, word is they had to cut down the number due to the pandemic. In any case Bucky, Sam, Zemo and Walker were great in the series, everything else was ok.
Edit: Didn't read bosk's 2nd part of the post. Thanks for the details, it definitely felt something was off, similar to the latest season of the Expanse where they had to make adjustments after shooting the entire series.
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I don't feel like I had enough time/reason to care about some of the characters and ideas in the show, not enough to have the impact I think they were going for. Some interesting ideas for sure, but not developed enough. Maybe it would have felt better paced at nine or 10 shows, not just six.
Part of what you are feeling might be because of the length of the series. But there is something else at play as well that you might not be aware of that definitely left me feeling like there were some ideas that didn't get fleshed out as well as maybe they should have given what they were going for. So here's the deal: Principle shooting was basically done pre-Covid. Once the pandemic and resulting lockdowns happened, they made some major changes to the story. For example, there was supposed to be this entire thread of a mysterious virus, possibly unleashed by the Flag Smashers. That was supposed to have been what killed the matriarch whose funeral was so pivotal in the early episode. But given what was going on, the squashed that whole storyline. And there were some other things they changed as well. But the problem was that they were limited in their ability to do a lot of reshoots. So they did a lot of editing in post, and added in other dialog that wasn't originally there (where you don't actually see anyone talking, and they just add the voice). That partially explains some of the clunkiness and the fact that some things felt underbaked a bit. I'm not really sure they NEEDED to change any of that. But they felt they needed to, and we got what we got as a result. And I think the final product is still really good. But it did suffer a bit due to those circumstances. And given all that, I'm willing to give them a pass. As with pretty much anything in the MCU, it's still TONS better than the vast majority of superhero/comics-based movies or shows we got at any point prior to the MCU.
I didn't realize that, and it does help explain the not-quite-fully-baked feel of the show. Bummer.
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That helps explain a lot, bosk.
I thought the same about Sam just declaring he was Cap.
One other thing, the suit was a teeny bit camp, I thought. Those massive shoulder blocks, lots of white and bits around his face. But that's a tiny nitpick.
But yeah, really happy Marvel are dishing out the goods still. Looking forward to Loki.
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That helps explain a lot, bosk.
I thought the same about Sam just declaring he was Cap.
One other thing, the suit was a teeny bit camp, I thought. Those massive shoulder blocks, lots of white and bits around his face. But that's a tiny nitpick.
But yeah, really happy Marvel are dishing out the goods still. Looking forward to Loki.
Loki will probably be the best of them.
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I thought the season was pretty great (with some elements/moments that were really fantastic), though nothing special for the MCU (i.e. on a par with most of the stuff).
Overall though, a fantastic start to Phase 4.
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One thing I was a bit puzzle on how the finale handled the Sam reveal of Captain America.. didn't he need that Senate panel's permission to use the Shield as Captain America? I mean they made a big fuss with Walker and his conduct and they unveiled him so I thought the same applies to Sam?
They did have the line earlier, in ep4 I think, where they said that the shield wasn't actually govt property. Also, maybe Steve giving the shield to Sam, and Sam already being an Avenger played into that as well.
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Alright, so spoilers ahead. I have thoughts about the finale/show in general, as well as ideas on what could have improved it.
Overall, I thought the show was fantastic. Not perfect by any stretch, but really really great. It largely suffered from too few episodes, too many subplots/characters, and possibly the impact of COVID on shooting. However, unlike Bosk, I haven't seen anything reliable on them scrubbing a pandemic storyline. I did read the actor who played Sam's army buddy said he wasn't aware of any Pandemic storyline being in the show at any point. So I don't know.
They had many goals, and I think they absolutely crushed most of them and fell really flat on a few. The big goals, however, were crushed. The social commentary, the racial injustice, etc. were handled perfectly. Sam's transformation from Falcon to Cap felt fully earned and genuine. He couldn't have just taken the shield and been Cap, he had to become Cap. I don't think he really needed government approval. I think the message (which might work best without worrying about the minutia) is that the person who is Cap is someone who rises against their initial desires and simply IS the man for the job, rather than being selected by a government with their own interests at heart. I think Steve's character arc spoke to that as well. Sadly Bucky's story was a little less perfect. I think it started off SO strong. And maybe it was a COVID thing, but it felt quite rushed at the end. He spent 2 episodes with the whole amends thing, then kind of ignored it for 3.5 episodes, then neatly wrapped it up in 10 minutes at the end of the last episode. Needed a real episode dedicated to that I think, but overall it was good, just a bit of a missed opportunity.
On the topic of the social justice/experience of black America, the storyline and literally any scene with Isaiah was pure perfection and was almost in tears a few times for differing reasons. It's odd since he recently played Martian Manhunter's dad on Supergirl and I was not very impressed with the actor. He's completely unrecognizable here and did so brilliantly I was astonished it's the same guy. But yea, can't say enough good things about him and his entire plotline. Perfect.
Sharon, I think is the biggest problem I had. I like Sharon and it was initially cool when she showed up, but then it just really quickly went off the rails and made no sense. I know even Chad pointed out the big theories out there that she's a Skrull. I think that alone is super telling since, as far as I've read, the ONLY reason people have that theory is that she was so insanely out of character that she must be a Skrull. Maybe, I don't know, they didn't set it up well at all if she was. I think the show would've been better if she either was never in it or just showed up that first time to help, got promised her pardon and was done. Her being the power broker was very out of left field (predictable, but out of left field from a character perspective). Her having endless amounts of super serum and willingly getting rid of it for American secrets is a very poor decision and didn't make any sense. She just went full villain and I know you CAN justify it to some degree, but I'll never buy it and it will never sit right with me. Also they just welcomed her back and gave her full access to all government secrets? WHAT?!?!
The other plot like I would have changed was the Flag Smashers. A lot of potential that kind of guy muddled over time. I really loved their initial motivations. It was a fascinating idea but they needed to make them much more sympathetic for it work, and having them just mindlessly kill so many people so early on kind of killed that. Also them all being super soldiers was not a great choice. It just kind of makes the whole super soldier thing much less special. I say either make Karli the lone super soldier, or even better, make it a conditional treatment. Something they need to take over and over and get addicted to, rather than a one time thing. Just a lot more opportunity there.
I know that's some armchair directing there, but just some thoughts.
I love Sam becoming Cap. I loved Bucky and his relationship. I loved 80% of the entire thing. I just wish that 20% was better. I think cutting out 1-3 subplots and/or adding 2 or so episodes would've helped a lot.
Oh and John Walker. I think 95% of it was amazing. His buildup, his character, all of it until the parts of the last episode were great. He was a deeply, deeply flawed person who truly wanted to do good and just lost himself. They gave him some....SOME...genuine redemption at the end with him sacrificing his own vengeance to help save people and remembering why he started to do this in the first place. Loved all of that. But he was all of the sudden super chum with Bucky and Sam after, you know, trying to kill them not too long ago. I think if they had made it a very very tense alliance at the end and made it clear that Sam and Bucky did NOT like him or something like that, it would've been better. But them quipping just felt wrong.
Either way, looking forward to Cap 4 (though a little worried since one of the two writers was responsible for that finale that fell flat for most people).
Anywho. Those are general thoughts. Very pumped for Loki, just also hoping COVID didn't hurt that one too much.
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Sam's transformation from Falcon to Cap felt fully earned and genuine. He couldn't have just taken the shield and been Cap, he had to become Cap. I don't think he really needed government approval. I think the message (which might work best without worrying about the minutia) is that the person who is Cap is someone who rises against their initial desires and simply IS the man for the job, rather than being selected by a government with their own interests at heart. I think Steve's character arc spoke to that as well.
Some really great observations in here. Love this.
Sadly Bucky's story was a little less perfect. I think it started off SO strong. And maybe it was a COVID thing, but it felt quite rushed at the end. He spent 2 episodes with the whole amends thing, then kind of ignored it for 3.5 episodes, then neatly wrapped it up in 10 minutes at the end of the last episode. Needed a real episode dedicated to that I think, but overall it was good, just a bit of a missed opportunity.
I'm going to disagree a bit here. To me, really getting inside Bucky's head for a long time early on kind of made me feel like he is the type of person to work through things by...working. I think his actions in the last two episodes were him doing that and completing the arc. I dunno. For me, it worked.
Oh and John Walker. I think 95% of it was amazing. His buildup, his character, all of it until the parts of the last episode were great. He was a deeply, deeply flawed person who truly wanted to do good and just lost himself. They gave him some....SOME...genuine redemption at the end with him sacrificing his own vengeance to help save people and remembering why he started to do this in the first place. Loved all of that. But he was all of the sudden super chum with Bucky and Sam after, you know, trying to kill them not too long ago. I think if they had made it a very very tense alliance at the end and made it clear that Sam and Bucky did NOT like him or something like that, it would've been better. But them quipping just felt wrong.
Yeah, I'm with you on that. I wasn't expecting a redemption arc for him. I thought he was going to go farther down the dark path instead. I liked that they redeemed him. But I had the same problems with it that you had.
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Yea, I've only read a bit of US Agent in the comics, but he's not really presented as a pure villain but usually more of an anti-hero or a person who goes back and forth but generally wants to be the hero. So they managed that aspect of him really well.
As for Bucky, I think the theory of what they were doing was perfect, I just felt the ending was rushed with it and it could've used an episode more dedicated to the true amends he had to make. Sam gave him that great speech about how he wasn't amending, he was avenging. Then we just seem him talk to the dude for 10 seconds and everyone is good and happy. I wanted to see more of what happened. It's like they told us it was fine but didn't show it. Not a huge deal by any stretch, mind you.
Oh, and I just realized something about Sharon. She's not a Skrull. My theory? SHE'S MEPHISTO! SPREAD THE WORD!
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I just watched the last ep and I love it.
The only problem I have is that the ep takes place in NY and I was wondering, WHERE THE HELL IS SPIDERMAN?
I think during the entire series there were 2 occasions where it was mentioned that Steve Rogers was in THE MOON, could it be possible that we will get to see him in SECRET INVASION?
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Great writeup Adami. One other (fairly minor) nit I have is that all the flagsmashers became elite level combat fighters? Is that supposed to be something that comes with the super serum? Like c'mon... these radicals all of a sudden can go toe-to-toe with Walker and Bucky? I had trouble swallowing that. I get that agains Sam and Battlestar they can just over power them with brute strength. But 1:1 with other super soldiers??
I hope my expectations for Loki aren't too high.
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I loved the finale. I largely agreed with Adami's awesome post.
I agree with jingle that the Flag Smashers being depicted as high-level fighters didn't make much sense. Bucky and Walker should have mopped the floor with those doofuses, even with the serum in their veins.
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Regarding the possibly-dropped virus subplot, there's a lot of evidence for it. The actress for Donya is apparently a big name, and it seemed like a waste to cast someone only to be seen dying in bed for one scene. I believe that she was supposed to have died from whatever virus is going around and that the Flag Smashers were too late with their stolen vaccines to save her.
Also, if you think about it, if 3-4 billion people rematerialize on Earth all at once while five years have gone by, imagine how susceptible they'd be to new viral infections that the un-blipped population would be vaccinated against? The number of compromised immune systems in the world would skyrocket with the re-introduction of all those billions of people worldwide, which might be one reason why the GRC isolated the displaced blipped people into their own camps, possibly for health reason.
There were also some obviously dialed-in ADR lines by Sharon and the serum-making scientist that felt like reworked dialog after the virus subplot was scrubbed. I suspect the show was going to be a bit longer by each episode, but a lot of edited had to be made once the plot needed some changes. It definitely makes some of the other subplots make less sense (especially Sharon's), and it gives the show a less-than-perfect feel. Between WandaVision and this, this one definitely feels like it suffered from rewrites more than the other, but that didn't affect some of the more powerful scenes and moments, especially everything related to Sam and Isaiah.
I think they still left room for Sharon's character arc to grow, if she appears in later Disney+ shows like Secret Invasion or Armor Wars (where I think she'll end up next, dealing out prototype Stark-like weapons to buyers worldwide, creating a problem that Rhodey will have to fix). We'll see Sam and Bucky again in the next Captain America film it seems, though I wonder if Zemo will return in that, or if they're saving him for another Disney+ outing. I still think they're setting him up to be part of a Thunderbolts team, set up by De Fontaine. There are still plenty of living villains in the MCU he can team up with (like Ghost, Abomination, Baron Mordo, Agatha Harkness, maybe more I'm forgetting).
This show definitely left the doors open for plenty of possibilities with these characters, whereas WandaVision kind of led itself into one direction at the end, heading into the Multiverse Of Madness with Doctor Strange, though I think we all knew that already given Feige's reveals regarding WandaVision's connection to the Doctor Strange sequel. It also helps that no one of any real importance died at the end (I didn't think Karli or the Flag Smashers were going to survive this series, but I'm glad Sharon and John get the chance to return in the MCU again, as they've obviously being set up for).
-Marc.
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One other (fairly minor) nit I have is that all the flagsmashers became elite level combat fighters? Is that supposed to be something that comes with the super serum? Like c'mon... these radicals all of a sudden can go toe-to-toe with Walker and Bucky? I had trouble swallowing that. I get that agains Sam and Battlestar they can just over power them with brute strength. But 1:1 with other super soldiers??
I sort of agree but I think this is a broader "suspension of disbelief" feature in the MCU and indeed superhero type shows/movies in general. The Flag-Smashers didn't particularly stand out to me in that regard.
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One other (fairly minor) nit I have is that all the flagsmashers became elite level combat fighters? Is that supposed to be something that comes with the super serum? Like c'mon... these radicals all of a sudden can go toe-to-toe with Walker and Bucky? I had trouble swallowing that. I get that agains Sam and Battlestar they can just over power them with brute strength. But 1:1 with other super soldiers??
I sort of agree but I think this is a broader "suspension of disbelief" feature in the MCU and indeed superhero type shows/movies in general. The Flag-Smashers didn't particularly stand out to me in that regard.
That's a common trope, ariich says. The old days of the Batman TV show where the thugs were fat goons that fall over with a swift kick are kind of done.
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One other (fairly minor) nit I have is that all the flagsmashers became elite level combat fighters? Is that supposed to be something that comes with the super serum? Like c'mon... these radicals all of a sudden can go toe-to-toe with Walker and Bucky? I had trouble swallowing that. I get that agains Sam and Battlestar they can just over power them with brute strength. But 1:1 with other super soldiers??
I sort of agree but I think this is a broader "suspension of disbelief" feature in the MCU and indeed superhero type shows/movies in general. The Flag-Smashers didn't particularly stand out to me in that regard.
That's a common trope, ariich says. The old days of the Batman TV show where the thugs were fat goons that fall over with a swift kick are kind of done.
I should add that it also happens plenty with heroes too. As much as I thoroughly enjoy them, the DC Arrowverse shows on the CW do that all the time.
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Yeah, heroes and villains alike get overpowered/underpowered at any given moment to serve whatever the story arc is.
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I feel like this might be the first MCU related thing I won't be able to finish. Got 2 episodes left but just very little interest or motivation to get through it. First few episodes were okay but I could see the John Walker arc coming a mile away and I feel more interested in how this will impact future movies/shows (which I can get just by reading a wiki summary) than actually seeing the season wrapping up.
I wouldn't say it's a bad show or anything, it just feels very by the numbers unfortunately.
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It gets better and I don't think it's by the numbers at all. There's a reason why it's only 6 episodes. The fact that they didn't draw it out was smart.
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I feel like this might be the first MCU related thing I won't be able to finish. Got 2 episodes left but just very little interest or motivation to get through it. First few episodes were okay but I could see the John Walker arc coming a mile away and I feel more interested in how this will impact future movies/shows (which I can get just by reading a wiki summary) than actually seeing the season wrapping up.
I wouldn't say it's a bad show or anything, it just feels very by the numbers unfortunately.
That's a shame. I can't say I see what you're seeing. I don't think they expected John Walker's turn to be a surprise. It was telegraphed pretty strong from the get go. They introduced him as someone to feel suspicious of at the very least.
But maybe it's just not your thing. That's cool.
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I feel like this might be the first MCU related thing I won't be able to finish. Got 2 episodes left but just very little interest or motivation to get through it. First few episodes were okay but I could see the John Walker arc coming a mile away and I feel more interested in how this will impact future movies/shows (which I can get just by reading a wiki summary) than actually seeing the season wrapping up.
I wouldn't say it's a bad show or anything, it just feels very by the numbers unfortunately.
That's a shame. I can't say I see what you're seeing. I don't think they expected John Walker's turn to be a surprise. It was telegraphed pretty strong from the get go. They introduced him as someone to feel suspicious of at the very least.
But maybe it's just not your thing. That's cool.
I feel like while the characters are fun, the plot just isn't that interesting. I guess if you use Wandavision for contrast, the central mystery in that show kept it engaging for me at least. I guess the plot in this just doesn't feel very interesting. :/
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I feel like this might be the first MCU related thing I won't be able to finish. Got 2 episodes left but just very little interest or motivation to get through it. First few episodes were okay but I could see the John Walker arc coming a mile away and I feel more interested in how this will impact future movies/shows (which I can get just by reading a wiki summary) than actually seeing the season wrapping up.
I wouldn't say it's a bad show or anything, it just feels very by the numbers unfortunately.
That's a shame. I can't say I see what you're seeing. I don't think they expected John Walker's turn to be a surprise. It was telegraphed pretty strong from the get go. They introduced him as someone to feel suspicious of at the very least.
But maybe it's just not your thing. That's cool.
I feel like while the characters are fun, the plot just isn't that interesting. I guess if you use Wandavision for contrast, the central mystery in that show kept it engaging for me at least. I guess the plot in this just doesn't feel very interesting. :/
Marvel fully admitted that the shows would be different and that Falcon & The Winter Soldier would be more action-oriented and more typical "Marvel."
I loved the show.