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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on February 22, 2021, 06:46:59 AM
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Which metal debut aged better in you book?
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Metallica all day long. I'm not an Iron Maiden fan though, so it's a no brainer.
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Kill 'em All is one of the Metallica albums I'm least familiar with, but since I do listen to the Maiden rather frequently still, I'm going there.
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Iron Maiden is for me the better band but Kill 'em All is the better debut album. The songs on the Maiden album are total classics, of course, but they don't reach their full potential with that production. It's from Killers onward where Maiden start to sound like Maiden, with Birch as producer.
Now the production on Kill 'em All is simply perfect for the songs. So I voted for Metallica.
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Kill Em All. :metal
It would be more of a contest if Bruce was on Maiden's debut. I love his versions of those songs.
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This is super close, and I think I find it easier to look at the songs that I'm not super high on.
KEA opens with what is, for me, a bit of a dud. I've never been a fan of Hit the Lights, or of Jump in the Fire. The rest of side 1 ranges from really good to great, with The Four Horsemen being the best track on the album. Side 2 continues in that vein. I find both Phantom Lord and Metal Militia to be a bit weak. No Remorse is a bit underrated, and Seek & Destroy is overplayed (but still a great song).
The Maiden debut probably has fewer low points. I'm not a fan of DiAnno's attempts at "ballads," so I'll often skip Remember Tomorrow and Strange World. But that's about it for negatives. Every other song on that album, save for Running Free, ranges from really good to all-time metal classic. I got super sick of Running Free after Live After Death was released because our local radio station would always play the audience participation segment, which is great when you're standing in the arena, but which is dreadfully boring on the album or the radio. But the album version obviously doesn't include that and is a tight little number.
So...I voted for Maiden.
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Both good debuts, but I still prefer Iron Maiden. It's more consistent. It has more highlights and less lowlights.
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Kill 'em All, I could never get into Maiden
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eh, The Metallica debut has 2 really great songs: 4 Horsemen and Seek and Destroy, the rest of the album is pretty "meh"
That said, the Iron Maiden debut is not an album I go back to all that often, but I think it's a more consistently good album from start to finish.
Maiden by a NoseHair
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Kill 'Em All is by far my favorite Metallica album, and is a TAC Top 10 album. One of the most influential albums in my musical life.
The only Iron Maiden album I put above it is The Number Of The Beast.
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This is an interesting comparison. I think it would be almost as interesting to compare Phantom of the Opera and The Four Horsemen as the epic tracks from both albums, since that's where my mind almost immediately went when I started thinking about these albums.
I used to really not like Kill 'Em All. Thrash isn't exactly my thing, I don't like the immature party/drug/senseless violence lyrics that are on most of the songs (really all of them except The Four Horsemen, Jump in the Fire, and, obviously, Anesthesia). It has actually grown on me the last few years as I've come to recognize that even then Hetfield (and, fine, Mustaine) had a strong sense for catchy riffs and melody. I think that sense is wasted more than it ought to have been on thrash headbangers' anthems, but I can't deny Seek and Destroy or Metal Militia as precursors to the material I really love that was to come.
Iron Maiden also has some lyrics that I don't care for—Prowler, Charlotte, and really Iron Maiden, too, when it comes right down to it, although I'm kind of immune to that one after having heard the song 1,800 times. It also does not have Bruce Dickinson or Adrian Smith, and unlike Blaze Bayley, Paul Di'Anno does not do much for me. But Phantom of the Opera is far and away the best song on either album, and I think Remember Tomorrow beats The Four Horsemen for #2 (incidentally, that's the only song where I am particularly enamored of Di'Anno's performance).
I came in here expecting to go straight for Maiden on the principle that I prefer them out of the two bands (though I love both) and that I have bigger problems with KEA (don't like thrash much, dislike the lyrics more). But it's closer than I thought it would be. Overall, though, on the strength of Phantom of the Opera and Remember Tomorrow, I think I still give a slight edge to IM.
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Maiden > Kill em all.
Ride > Killers.
Puppets > Beast.
Peace > Justice.
Powerslave = Black.
Time > Load
7th > Reload.
Prayer > St Anger.
Magnetic > Fear
Hardwired Side 1 & 2 > Blaze Albums.
I was bored.
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Also because their carrer trajectories were different, and so an album by album comparison doesn't work (not that I think it was your intention beyond an album-by-album match anyway). Kill 'em All is equivalent to the Di'Anno albums, while Ride / Master / Justice can be compared to the 666 > Seventh Son run (with a different number of albums). Then their carrers diverge and you can't really compare the moderate fame of Fear of the Dark (the song) with the Black Album (and if at all, Load and Reload are the match for the Blaze albums).
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Puppets > Beast.
Peace > Justice.
Damn those are some tough match-ups. 4 stone-cold classic albums right there.
As for the OP, I voted Maiden. Never really taken to Kill 'em All outside of The Four Horsemen whereas Iron Maiden's debut is mostly very good and occasionally great.
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I'll be the first to admit that this is misleading, in that it compares two careers that FOR ME aren't that similar, but I'll play:
Maiden >> Kill em all
Killers >> Ride (Killers is one of my favorite albums of all time)
Beast >> Puppets (Beast has a special place, as it's where all things metal began for me)
Peice > Justice (Closest one so far; I really like Justice, but Piece is just a juggernaut for me)
Powerslave > Black (Most misleading one so far; I love both; this is a Teutonic battle for me)
Time > Load
7th > Reload
Prayer >> St Anger
Fear > Magnetic
Hardwired Side 1 & 2 > Blaze Albums
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Iron Maiden also has some lyrics that I don't care for—Prowler, Charlotte, and really Iron Maiden, too, when it comes right down to it, although I'm kind of immune to that one after having heard the song 1,800 times. It also does not have Bruce Dickinson or Adrian Smith, and unlike Blaze Bayley, Paul Di'Anno does not do much for me. But Phantom of the Opera is far and away the best song on either album, and I think Remember Tomorrow beats The Four Horsemen for #2 (incidentally, that's the only song where I am particularly enamored of Di'Anno's performance).
I dislike Hetfield's vocals on KEA. I find them really grating. Then he sounded like a drunk 14-year old kid. Di'Anno vocals sounded much more pleasant and mature to me.
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I love the classic 3 Metallica albums but Kill Em All was never an album I rated THAT highly. It's a solid debut album which I guess is the word I would use for the Iron Maiden debut album as well.
If I had to pick either I think I'm leaning towards Maiden. Phantom of the Opera and Remember Tomorrow are low key 2 of the best Maiden songs, you get some early hits in the blueprint that would later create the biggest hits - like Prowler/Sanctuary/Iron Maiden. Overall it's a solid debut album and I feel like if it had Bruce it would probably be more highly rated.
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Hmmm...
Iron Maiden > Kill 'Em All
Ride the Lightning > Killers
Master of Puppets > The Number of the Beast
Piece of Mind > ...And Justice for All
Powerslave > The Black Album
Virtually Everything in the Known Universe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Re-)Load
Piece of Mind
Master of Puppets
Powerslave
The Number of the Beast
Ride the Lightning
...And Justice for All
Somewhere in Time
Iron Maiden
Seventh Son of a Seventh Son
Kill 'Em All
Killers
The Black Album
The top 5 here could probably juggle out quite differently depending on the day.
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Kill Em All mainly cause I can't stand Iron Maiden.
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I don't quite understand why we're comparing them straight chronologically, because that doesn't quite work. The Blaze albums and the Loads are obvious points of comparison since they were released around the same time, they had a different sound than their respective bands' classic albums, and they both have been heavily criticized while still having a minority of enthusiastic fans. And SSoaSS matches up with AJFA for both being released in the same year and being the climax of both band's development toward a proto-prog-metal sound.
But okay, sure, I'll play:
Iron Maiden > Kill 'Em All (very close, as stated earlier)
Ride the Lightning > Killers (one of my favorite Metallica albums vs. one of my least favorite IM albums)
The Number of the Beast > Master of Puppets (I don't rate Puppets quite as high as most, and Hallowed Be Thy Name is the best them)
Piece of Mind > ...And Justice for All (another very, very close one, but side A of PoM is so superb)
The Black Album > Powerslave (the middle four on Ps drag it down; TBA is probably my favorite Metallica album)
Somewhere in Time > Load (if Load was 60 minutes with Cure, Poor Twisted Me, Wasting My Hate and Ronnie removed, I'd reconsider)
Seventh Son of a Seventh Son > Reload (I really like half of Reload, but... yeah)
No Prayer for the Dying > St. Anger (this is an interesting one, and it's actually close for me, but No Prayer is more consistent)
Death Magnetic > Fear of the Dark (my least favorite Maiden vs. a Metallica album I like more than most do)
The X Factor and Virtual XI > Hardwired... to Self Destruct (very easily; Sign of the Cross alone would win this)
Five additional Iron Maiden albums, including their two best ones > Metallica screwing around not writing music and Kirk losing his phone
Some comparisons I find interesting that don't line up chronologically:
Seventh Son of a Seventh Son > ...And Justice for All (1988 proto-prog-metal albums)
The X Factor > Load (unpopular 90s album with a cult following)
Virtual XI > Reload (even more unpopular 90s album with a smaller cult following)
The Book of Souls > Hardwired... to Self Destruct (double album from the 2010s)
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I don't care for either album and wouldn't mind never hearing them ever again, despite owning both on CD.
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Neither. These are both bands that put out garbage debuts and took awhile to find their stride. I never would have become a fan if either of these bands didn't evolve past their initial sounds.
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Both are great albums, but for me it’s easily Maiden s/t > Kill Em All.
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Neither. These are both bands that put out garbage debuts and took awhile to find their stride. I never would have become a fan if either of these bands didn't evolve past their initial sounds.
Saying Kill 'em All is garbage is hilarious :rollin
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These are both bands that put out garbage debuts
Wow. That's your opinion, so there's no point arguing, but I could not disagree more.
I never would have become a fan if either of these bands didn't evolve past their initial sounds.
Sure, that makes more sense is is probably not uncommon with many bands.
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Kill 'em All, I could never get into Maiden
This
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
Metallica were my first love, and the first band I became obsessional over. Dream Theater were a band I discovered later, when my tastes broadened and just struck a chord with me. Maiden were a band I tried, after getting into other big metal bands, following Metallica.
However, for me I didn't like Bruce's vocals and just felt they just weren't that great. To me I always thought if it like this. Growing up I LOVED Star Wars (I still do). It was cool as shit. Han Solo? Cool. Darth Vader? Cool. Epic space battles? Cool. Soundtrack? Cool. My neighbour loved Star Trek and I just always thought it was lame and lacked that 'cool' factor. It was what what people who tucked their t-shirt into their trousers liked!
Comparing Metallica to Maiden, as arguably the biggest two metal bands of all time, I just thought Maiden were lame. Compared to Metallica (especially Hetfield) who just oozed cool.
I think that is something I could never get past. I've tried Maiden many times and could honestly say I would be fine if I never heard a Maiden song ever again. I suppose I can understand why people like them, it's just not for me.
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
Metallica were my first love, and the first band I became obsessional over. Dream Theater were a band I discovered later, when my tastes broadened and just struck a chord with me. Maiden were a band I tried, after getting into other big metal bands, following Metallica.
However, for me I didn't like Bruce's vocals and just felt they just weren't that great. To me I always thought if it like this. Growing up I LOVED Star Wars (I still do). It was cool as shit. Han Solo? Cool. Darth Vader? Cool. Epic space battles? Cool. Soundtrack? Cool. My neighbour loved Star Trek and I just always thought it was lame and lacked that 'cool' factor. It was what what people who tucked their t-shirt into their trousers liked!
I, uh... hmm, I never did that. That picture is misleading; it's not tucked in, you just can't see it. ;)
Comparing Metallica to Maiden, as arguably the biggest two metal bands of all time, I just thought Maiden were lame. Compared to Metallica (especially Hetfield) who just oozed cool.
I think that is something I could never get past. I've tried Maiden many times and could honestly say I would be fine if I never heard a Maiden song ever again. I suppose I can understand why people like them, it's just not for me.
No argument, I respect your taste, but for me, a couple years earlier, it was the exact opposite. Maiden was the first rock band I ever saw live, and I was BLOWN AWAY by Bruce Dickinson. I was a singer in my high school band, and I saw him and it took the wind out of my sails (hahaha). I lived and breathed Maiden for about four years. I have no ink to this day, but if I was to get a tat, there's a decent shot it would be something from the Powerslave record, like the Eye Of Horus. I still have my concert shirt and ticket from that first show. When Metallica came out it was a little... not "comedic", but it just seemed sort of hard to take seriously. The Cowardly Lion singing about lightning over these riffs that sound sped up? Nah, pass. I know now that's not what it is, but I never got on the thrash bandwagon, and to be blunt, I like Metallica more since they gently moved away from the thrash, James started actually singing rather than using that tinny yell that sounds like he's coming through a bullhorn.
(And I'm not being disrespectful with any of those comments. I'm trying to be funny. I actually do love James, and have repeatedly called him the coolest guy in metal right now.)
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
How? Well, I like Metallica and DT, but I don't like Iron Maiden.
That's how.
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I know now that's not what it is, but I never got on the thrash bandwagon, and to be blunt, I like Metallica more since they gently moved away from the thrash, James started actually singing rather than using that tinny yell that sounds like he's coming through a bullhorn.
This, so much. I'm always amused by the thrash fans who are upset that Metallica "sold out" by abandoning thrash, since I feel exactly the opposite way. To me, the thrashiest songs on those first four albums are the least interesting, and The Black Album is my favorite Metallica album.
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
How? Well, I like Metallica and DT, but I don't like Iron Maiden.
That's how.
OK. That's your personal taste.
But we probably wouldn't have Dream Theater without Iron Maiden.
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
How? Well, I like Metallica and DT, but I don't like Iron Maiden.
That's how.
OK. That's your personal taste.
But we probably wouldn't have Dream Theater without Iron Maiden.
So? We wouldn't have Iron Maiden without The Beatles and we wouldn't have the Beatles without Elvis or George Formby. Doesn't mean we should like Elvis or George Formby.
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
How? Well, I like Metallica and DT, but I don't like Iron Maiden.
That's how.
OK. That's your personal taste.
But we probably wouldn't have Dream Theater without Iron Maiden.
So? We wouldn't have Iron Maiden without The Beatles and we wouldn't have the Beatles without Elvis or George Formby. Doesn't mean we should like Elvis or George Formby.
Well, you SHOULD like Elvis. As for George Formby, I'll always prefer Sean Connery myself.
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
How? Well, I like Metallica and DT, but I don't like Iron Maiden.
That's how.
OK. That's your personal taste.
But we probably wouldn't have Dream Theater without Iron Maiden.
So? We wouldn't have Iron Maiden without The Beatles and we wouldn't have the Beatles without Elvis or George Formby. Doesn't mean we should like Elvis or George Formby.
Yep, that's the way it is. You don't have to be a fan of all those acts but you should admit and respect their status in music history.
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
How? Well, I like Metallica and DT, but I don't like Iron Maiden.
That's how.
OK. That's your personal taste.
But we probably wouldn't have Dream Theater without Iron Maiden.
So? We wouldn't have Iron Maiden without The Beatles and we wouldn't have the Beatles without Elvis or George Formby. Doesn't mean we should like Elvis or George Formby.
Yep, that's the way it is. You don't have to be a fan of all those acts but you should admit and respect their status in music history.
Don’t recall Hef saying he didn’t respect Iron Maiden’s role in music history.
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
How? Well, I like Metallica and DT, but I don't like Iron Maiden.
That's how.
OK. That's your personal taste.
But we probably wouldn't have Dream Theater without Iron Maiden.
So? We wouldn't have Iron Maiden without The Beatles and we wouldn't have the Beatles without Elvis or George Formby. Doesn't mean we should like Elvis or George Formby.
Yep, that's the way it is. You don't have to be a fan of all those acts but you should admit and respect their status in music history.
Did I disrespect Iron Maiden?
I don't know about their status in music history, but whatever that is, I'm sure they've earned it.
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
I love, love, love me some symphonic progressive rock, 70's style. Really enjoy listening to Spock's Beard and The Flower Kings, especially the early catalogs of both of those groups. The first 6 Spock's Beard albums and the first....8 or 9 albums from The Flower Kings are prog gold to me. Same with Transatlantic. Now these bands ALL borrow very, very heavily from the styles, sounds and songwriting of 70's Yes, Genesis and ELP maybe even a bit of King Crimson.
So, you'd think that I would love or at least like Yes, Genesis, ELP and King Crimson right? Wrong! I like about 1/2 of the early Genesis albums but rarely listen to them. I can't name a single song by King Crimson, in fact. Wait, I lied, is "Thrack" a song? If so, it's the one song I can name from King Crimson. As for Yes, I don't own a single album of theirs nor would I. I find 95% of their material to be too tedious and I can only take so much of those elfen vocals by Jon Anderson. I know and even enjoy a handful of Yes tracks but that's it: a handful at best and mostly the radio hits like Roundabout, Leave It and Owner of a Lonely Heart. So, as a general principle I don't listen to any of those 4 bands, ever. Even though I love Spock's Beard and The Flower Kings, two bands who made a living by practically aping the Genesis and Yes early catalogs.
I love Dream Theater and Iron Maiden but have very little love for Metallica. I enjoy a couple of their classic albums, but I find most of their lyrics sound like they were written by a 15-year-old introverted sociopath.
I get what you're saying. A lot of Dream Theater fans do like Iron Maiden and Metallica, but there are plenty of people right here on this board that love Dream Theater but have little use for Iron Maiden. They're really not as similar as they might seem at first glance, especially lyrically, but also musically. There are similarities for sure, but I can definitely understand people liking Dream Theater but not liking Maiden or Metallica.
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It's mystifying to me how someone could like Metallica and (presumably) DT, but then not like Iron Maiden. ???
Metallica were my first love, and the first band I became obsessional over. Dream Theater were a band I discovered later, when my tastes broadened and just struck a chord with me. Maiden were a band I tried, after getting into other big metal bands, following Metallica.
However, for me I didn't like Bruce's vocals and just felt they just weren't that great. To me I always thought if it like this. Growing up I LOVED Star Wars (I still do). It was cool as shit. Han Solo? Cool. Darth Vader? Cool. Epic space battles? Cool. Soundtrack? Cool. My neighbour loved Star Trek and I just always thought it was lame and lacked that 'cool' factor. It was what what people who tucked their t-shirt into their trousers liked!
I, uh... hmm, I never did that. That picture is misleading; it's not tucked in, you just can't see it. ;)
Comparing Metallica to Maiden, as arguably the biggest two metal bands of all time, I just thought Maiden were lame. Compared to Metallica (especially Hetfield) who just oozed cool.
I think that is something I could never get past. I've tried Maiden many times and could honestly say I would be fine if I never heard a Maiden song ever again. I suppose I can understand why people like them, it's just not for me.
No argument, I respect your taste, but for me, a couple years earlier, it was the exact opposite. Maiden was the first rock band I ever saw live, and I was BLOWN AWAY by Bruce Dickinson. I was a singer in my high school band, and I saw him and it took the wind out of my sails (hahaha). I lived and breathed Maiden for about four years. I have no ink to this day, but if I was to get a tat, there's a decent shot it would be something from the Powerslave record, like the Eye Of Horus. I still have my concert shirt and ticket from that first show. When Metallica came out it was a little... not "comedic", but it just seemed sort of hard to take seriously. The Cowardly Lion singing about lightning over these riffs that sound sped up? Nah, pass. I know now that's not what it is, but I never got on the thrash bandwagon, and to be blunt, I like Metallica more since they gently moved away from the thrash, James started actually singing rather than using that tinny yell that sounds like he's coming through a bullhorn.
(And I'm not being disrespectful with any of those comments. I'm trying to be funny. I actually do love James, and have repeatedly called him the coolest guy in metal right now.)
Hey I get it, it's fine. I believe in the multiverse. There are countless universes in which Maiden were the first metal band I discovered, hence became my favourite band. Hell, there are even universes out there in which I am IN Iron Maiden :rollin
I think so much of what we hold dear about bands we love, and cherish as our favourites, comes down to random chaos. Our parents listened to certain music; we had an older sibling/relative who exposed us to bands our parents would never listen to; a friend at school recommended some band; there was a certain trend in music in our formative years (glam/thrash/grunge/nu-metal). It's all just chance and we all could have basically ended up big fans of bands we think suck, and vice versa. In countless universes that's exactly what happened.
*mic drop*
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It's crazy to me how many times I've seen Hef take heat for not liking Iron Maiden. Not everybody is going to like every band!
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Hey I get it, it's fine. I believe in the multiverse. There are countless universes in which Maiden were the first metal band I discovered, hence became my favourite band. Hell, there are even universes out there in which I am IN Iron Maiden :rollin
I think so much of what we hold dear about bands we love, and cherish as our favourites, comes down to random chaos. Our parents listened to certain music; we had an older sibling/relative who exposed us to bands our parents would never listen to; a friend at school recommended some band; there was a certain trend in music in our formative years (glam/thrash/grunge/nu-metal). It's all just chance and we all could have basically ended up big fans of bands we think suck, and vice versa. In countless universes that's exactly what happened.
*mic drop*
Haha, I love that. I think you're 100% right on.
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Did I disrespect Iron Maiden?
I don't know about their status in music history, but whatever that is, I'm sure they've earned it.
OK. I didn't mean that you disrespect IM, I didn't criticize you at all. I was just saying generally about people who tend to be disrespectful towards some historically significant and influential bands ("they suck ass" attitude) just because they don't like their music.
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It's crazy to me how many times I've seen Hef take heat for not liking Iron Maiden. Not everybody is going to like every band!
Exactly. Iron Maiden's place in metal history is pretty secure, but I can count on one hand the number of songs by them that I like.
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There are similarities for sure, but I can definitely understand people liking Dream Theater but not liking Maiden or Metallica.
I can get that.
But generally (outside of their fandom and this board) Dream Theater is much more polarizing than both Iron Maiden and Metallica. Their music just can't have the same wide appeal as those two bands. I think there are a way more Maiden and Metallica fans who dislike (and even detest) Dream Theater than DT fans who detest IM and Metallica.
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Personally I prefer Meatallica
(https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/152450808_10158630457718645_4072096040506393882_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=3&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=pdkwV8u5rrIAX8UlsZ7&_nc_ht=scontent-bos3-1.xx&tp=6&oh=ff202ccc8d5e763610c9a31fb0f04d9e&oe=605D7317)
They're releasing a new EP with re-recorded classics like:
Enter Sandwich
For Ham The Bell Tolls
Buttery
Burn to Black
You heard it here first
:xbones
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Maiden are my core thing and my favourite band ever.
But I voted KEA, even though I don't dig Metallica much anymore.
The highs are amazing on IM (Phantom, Transylvania, the 2 ballads) but there's meh (Prowler, Running) and some really bad (Charlotte, Iron Maiden).
KEA is all solid at minimum and most of it is really good. And it sounds good. Only the vocals are sub-standard. It's just a more accomplished work.
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Personally I prefer Meatallica
(https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/152450808_10158630457718645_4072096040506393882_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=3&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=pdkwV8u5rrIAX8UlsZ7&_nc_ht=scontent-bos3-1.xx&tp=6&oh=ff202ccc8d5e763610c9a31fb0f04d9e&oe=605D7317)
They're releasing a new EP with re-recorded classics like:
Enter Sandwich
For Ham The Bell Tolls
Buttery
Burn to Black
You heard it here first
:xbones
New from the folks who brought you Mac Sabbath! :lol :biggrin: :lol :biggrin:
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I think there are a way more Maiden and Metallica fans who dislike (and even detest) Dream Theater than DT fans who detest IM and Metallica.
This is not news.