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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: MinistroRaven on February 02, 2021, 02:00:19 PM

Title: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 02, 2021, 02:00:19 PM
Anyone here into cryptocurrencies?

Some time ago I got $15 USD in doge, but it seems to be going down and down every day.

Now, a friend told me to get Nano, which I can't do for now, and he asked me to get a Natrium wallet and told me that he would send me some Nano just to try it. I set up the Wallet sent him the wallet address and in less than 1 second I received 10 NANOs.

It was sooooo fast, but also FEELESS. This doesn't depend on miners and it is also eco-friendly. He shared this address: https://nano.org/ I am reading it now, Elon Musk tweeted about Nano the other day, do you think this can be the future? Does it have a chance?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 02, 2021, 02:11:24 PM
I think if you have disposable cash that you don't care at all if you lose it then knock yourself out.  Otherwise I'd stay away from it.  Too risky and unregulated.   Of course, I'm almost 57 so my days of taking risks with my retirement money are long behind me.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 02, 2021, 02:18:08 PM
I think if you have disposable cash that you don't care at all if you lose it then knock yourself out.  Otherwise I'd stay away from it.  Too risky and unregulated.   Of course, I'm almost 57 so my days of taking risks with my retirement money are long behind me.

Yeah, sincerely I am not into it because I don't have the means, if I would, probably I would get some of them, and yeah, I know it's risky as hell.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on February 02, 2021, 11:38:11 PM
I wish I knew more about this. I have a bit of mad money* laying around, and we have plenty of funds set aside in our IRAs/traditional investments. So I tossed some coin at DOGE and XRP.


*meaning money that my wife and I keep to each of ourselves outside of our joint account. I rarely spend any money on myself for anything. It all goes to the kids or my investments.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ErHaO on February 03, 2021, 08:56:25 AM
On the internet there are a lot of people hyping it up constantly, increasing demand of their own investments and thus value. But while I most certainly feel you can make a lot of money, I am still skeptical of the long term future. What will governments do when crypto gets too disruptive in their economies?

The first links when googling anything cryptocurrency are usually all kinds of cryptobro sites in whose best interest it is to mark it up as much as possible. At least, that is how it appears to me, I really am not sure what to trust or believe in this regard.

Still, if I had more savings, I wouldn't rule out dropping some money to see where it leads on the long term. But never a too significant amount.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 03, 2021, 12:50:09 PM
Well, the hype is at least partially well-earned.  Bitcoin in particular has had a pretty incredible run.  It's made many people very rich, so there is a lot of potential there, but like all high-return investments it comes with a fairly massive amount of risk. 


Found a pretty good article from Forbes.com that explains the risks.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2018/12/05/the-top-10-risks-of-bitcoin-investing-and-how-to-avoid-them/?sh=f70b1b72407e
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Stadler on February 03, 2021, 12:58:32 PM
On the internet there are a lot of people hyping it up constantly, increasing demand of their own investments and thus value. But while I most certainly feel you can make a lot of money, I am still skeptical of the long term future. What will governments do when crypto gets too disruptive in their economies?

The first links when googling anything cryptocurrency are usually all kinds of cryptobro sites in whose best interest it is to mark it up as much as possible. At least, that is how it appears to me, I really am not sure what to trust or believe in this regard.

Still, if I had more savings, I wouldn't rule out dropping some money to see where it leads on the long term. But never a too significant amount.

"Cryptobro".  :) :) :) :)

Funnier thing is, I knew EXACTLY what you meant.   :)
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on February 04, 2021, 04:41:50 AM
Glad I finally got my $500 into $doge yesterday morning. I'm holding a $0.036 average. Looks like we might see some fun today. :metal
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 04, 2021, 11:14:05 AM
Glad I finally got my $500 into $doge yesterday morning. I'm holding a $0.036 average. Looks like we might see some fun today. :metal

More after Elon tweeted about it
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on February 04, 2021, 06:19:52 PM
I "made" more in my crypto accounts in this past week than I did at my job in the month of January. Strange world.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on February 08, 2021, 06:18:04 AM
I've now thrown more than I care to admit into the doge realm.

To the moon!!
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 08, 2021, 08:29:59 AM
Just remember you haven't "made" or "lost" anything unless you sell what you've purchased.  What separates the n00bs who blow half their savings on stupid investments from the more experienced people who don't ruin themselves is patience.    If you throw $20k at something and it goes down 30% the following week you HOLD it.  The last thing you want to do is panic-sell.  Bitcoin and really any modern cryptocurrency is no different, except the risks are much higher, especially on the emerging currencies that haven't established a track record yet.


I had to eat some Cisco stock for about 6 years before it FINALLY came back after I made a large purchase and there was a HUGE Cisco router hack about a month later that caused their stock to plummet like 40%.  I bit my tongue (and a few other things, lol) and I rode it out.  And it took 5 years to get to a break even point.  Then it went up a bit and I liquidated my position at a 9.5% profit.  That was the last stock trade I ever made, probably 5 years ago now.


I *almost* bought Bitcoins way back in the beginning.  If I had bought them I'd be rich now, assuming I'd have held on to them all this time.  Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda  :loser:


I don't know, to me it takes a certain kind of balls to make investments like this and I've never had the ability to handle that much risk.   
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2021, 08:43:22 AM
My little $40 I threw into Doge last week seems to be doing well, but for me, Doge isn't a spot where I want to put money.  I just don't believe in it.  It's a joke crypto that people are inflating.  Fun to throw a few bucks in and follow, but I don't have enough disposable income to seriously get involved in something I have no faith in at all.

Bitcoin however I can see where there is "value" as in, there's a finite amount of them.  It could be seen similar to gold so based on limited availability, there could be perceived value. Also Elon just made a huge bitcoin investment and it's now skyrocketing.  I have around $2500 invested in bitcoin right now and I'm not against putting more into it, but at this point I'd wait until it dips again.  It's so volatile that even though it's doing well right now, it'll probably come back down again soon enough.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on February 08, 2021, 08:46:34 AM
My little $40 I threw into Doge last week seems to be doing well, but for me, Doge isn't a spot where I want to put money.  I just don't believe in it.  It's a joke crypto that people are inflating.  Fun to throw a few bucks in and follow, but I don't have enough disposable income to seriously get involved in something I have no faith in at all.

Bitcoin however I can see where there is "value" as in, there's a finite amount of them.  It could be seen similar to gold so based on limited availability, there could be perceived value. Also Elon just made a huge bitcoin investment and it's now skyrocketing.  I have around $2500 invested in bitcoin right now and I'm not against putting more into it, but at this point I'd wait until it dips again.  It's so volatile that even though it's doing well right now, it'll probably come back down again soon enough.

There's not a finite amount of doge, but there's a finite amount how how much can be mined in a year. It'd take over 20 years of mining to unlock the equivalent of what's currently out there, so there is still some kind of a ceiling.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2021, 09:19:05 AM
My little $40 I threw into Doge last week seems to be doing well, but for me, Doge isn't a spot where I want to put money.  I just don't believe in it.  It's a joke crypto that people are inflating.  Fun to throw a few bucks in and follow, but I don't have enough disposable income to seriously get involved in something I have no faith in at all.

Bitcoin however I can see where there is "value" as in, there's a finite amount of them.  It could be seen similar to gold so based on limited availability, there could be perceived value. Also Elon just made a huge bitcoin investment and it's now skyrocketing.  I have around $2500 invested in bitcoin right now and I'm not against putting more into it, but at this point I'd wait until it dips again.  It's so volatile that even though it's doing well right now, it'll probably come back down again soon enough.

There's not a finite amount of doge, but there's a finite amount how how much can be mined in a year. It'd take over 20 years of mining to unlock the equivalent of what's currently out there, so there is still some kind of a ceiling.

I may have been confused with Ethereum (?), but regardless, I still find Doge to not be a serious crypto.  Of course that doesn't mean money won't be made or lost, just my personal thoughts are that I don't want to put anything of value in it. I'm not that risky, but then again it took me years to come around to bitcoin so maybe my thoughts will change. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2021, 09:57:26 AM
Just saw Mark Cuban posted this on twitter

https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/1358811975074131975 (https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/1358811975074131975)

Quote
When a Forbes reporter asks me about #dogecoin and whether itís a bad look for crypto when people are buying it

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ett4Sh3WYA0_E3N?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 08, 2021, 10:59:14 AM
Elon Musk just put over a billion dollars into Bitcoin and now says Tesla may end up accepting Bitcoin as payment for their vehicles.


Dude has ice water running through his veins and brass balls the size of an elephant.  Imagine having the kind of money where you're willing to risk a fucking billion dollars  :eek
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2021, 11:11:19 AM
I dont understand why anyone would make a purchase with bitcoin though.  Like I understand why a company would accept that payment these days, but why spend it?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 08, 2021, 11:58:40 AM
All the days of my life I ask the Lord why I was born on this side of the world? Why I didn't learn about finance and investments earlier in my life. Why I didn't take the bullet and purchase Bitcoin back in 2011 when I was presented with the opportunity to throw a $100 bucks into it?

Man, I fucking hate my life right now.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2021, 12:01:56 PM
Can't think of investments like that though.  Anyone can say the same thing.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 08, 2021, 12:38:24 PM
I dont understand why anyone would make a purchase with bitcoin though.  Like I understand why a company would accept that payment these days, but why spend it?


It would make sense if you were an early adopter and had realized some huge profits.  Why not dip into it a bit to get some cool stuff if you turned a $20k investment into $2 million over the course of 5 years?


Otherwise, I agree you hold it long term.  I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with taking a little off the top when you've made a killing already.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 08, 2021, 12:45:58 PM
Have you heard of ADA by Cardamo?
It seems to be doing really good too!
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2021, 12:56:56 PM
I dont understand why anyone would make a purchase with bitcoin though.  Like I understand why a company would accept that payment these days, but why spend it?


It would make sense if you were an early adopter and had realized some huge profits.  Why not dip into it a bit to get some cool stuff if you turned a $20k investment into $2 million over the course of 5 years?


Otherwise, I agree you hold it long term.  I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with taking a little off the top when you've made a killing already.

I'm not sure I even follow with that train of thought, unless you just don't have any cash because it's all tied up in bitcoin.  OR if you felt the bitcoin value would go down.  Right now, it's rising more than the dollar so you are likely vastly overspending by paying with bitcoin over dollars. Just seems like you are paying with something that's limited vs. cash that can be printed.  Maybe I'm completely wrong on this, but that's how I see it.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 08, 2021, 01:19:14 PM
I dont understand why anyone would make a purchase with bitcoin though.  Like I understand why a company would accept that payment these days, but why spend it?


It would make sense if you were an early adopter and had realized some huge profits.  Why not dip into it a bit to get some cool stuff if you turned a $20k investment into $2 million over the course of 5 years?


Otherwise, I agree you hold it long term.  I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with taking a little off the top when you've made a killing already.

I'm not sure I even follow with that train of thought, unless you just don't have any cash because it's all tied up in bitcoin.  OR if you felt the bitcoin value would go down.  Right now, it's rising more than the dollar so you are likely vastly overspending by paying with bitcoin over dollars. Just seems like you are paying with something that's limited vs. cash that can be printed.  Maybe I'm completely wrong on this, but that's how I see it.


If I invest $10 in a pound of dog shit tomorrow and the value of a pound of dog shit skyrockets over the next 5 years to where my original investment is now worth $100,000 you can bet your ass that I won't hesitate to spend a bit of that on a nice guitar or something like that if my local music store started accepting Shitcoins as payment.  Not sure why dipping into profits is spinning you out, but OK?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2021, 01:47:34 PM
It's not about dipping into profits, my thoughts are based around spending a limited currency on something that has a set value.  I'll spin myself out  :yeahright
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Stadler on February 08, 2021, 02:31:38 PM
I'm not taking sides here, but Marc, I think I see your point.   I'm not 1000% sure I agree with it, but I see it.  If I understand you correctly, you're saying this:   If I buy a $1000 guitar, why give them bitcoin, when that bitcoin could be $1100 that afternoon, or $1500 next month.   And that's true, but it could be $800 that afternoon, or $500 next week.   I hear you saying why actually use the bitcoin as your currency, as opposed to old fashioned cash.

I don't know; maybe I'm old school - too old school - but the whole idea feels like a game to me.  If my $25.00 turns into $25,000, I'm in line with Barry to buy a guitar (I want a wine colored Les Paul, myself) but I'm paying cash for it.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2021, 02:49:01 PM
I'm not taking sides here, but Marc, I think I see your point.   I'm not 1000% sure I agree with it, but I see it.  If I understand you correctly, you're saying this:   If I buy a $1000 guitar, why give them bitcoin, when that bitcoin could be $1100 that afternoon, or $1500 next month.   And that's true, but it could be $800 that afternoon, or $500 next week.   I hear you saying why actually use the bitcoin as your currency, as opposed to old fashioned cash.

I don't know; maybe I'm old school - too old school - but the whole idea feels like a game to me.  If my $25.00 turns into $25,000, I'm in line with Barry to buy a guitar (I want a wine colored Les Paul, myself) but I'm paying cash for it.

Yes, this is my point and I agree, it COULD go down, I mean, it WILL as it's extremely volatile, but it seems very likely not to over the long run.  Which is why I personally believe these companies are starting to accept it as payment, they will hold onto it and make out in the long run over the guy who spent it on something that 100% for sure devalued over time.  My reason for thinking this is based on the limited availability of bitcoin, if you could just print or mine this forever, I'm not sure I'd feel the same way.  And once again I'll say that I'm not an expert here and could be completely wrong with my thoughts.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on February 08, 2021, 08:28:16 PM
I've now thrown more than I care to admit into the doge realm.

 :lol This is where I am at. I sunk a few grrr in to it a few weeks ago along with a couple other cryptos, but only after I maxed out our Roth allotments for this year and added to our other investments.

All the days of my life I ask the Lord why I was born on this side of the world? Why I didn't learn about finance and investments earlier in my life.

Not sure where you hail from, but why do you think this is a regional thing? I am pretty sure here in the US personal finance isn't taught at all in schools. You need to either learn it yourself or hope your parents give you the skills and knowledge. I didn't learn a thing from my dad and he was an accountant for most of his life.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Stadler on February 09, 2021, 08:29:29 AM
I didn't know dick about stocks or investing until I went to GE (people talked about the GE stock then like they talk about Tom Brady and Trump today), and even then I didn't get the gist until I got my MBA.   I still don't know the day-to-day in's-and-out's, but I know more than enough.

It's shocking and startling how little people know about stocks, their purpose, their trading, and what the various indicators mean.   When it starts to impact decision-making (and it does) it borders on embarrassing.  As a general proposition the sale/trade of stocks is not gambling, even though there is uncertainty, though day-trading is straight up gambling, and like with casinos, there IS a house (there is a reason - actually multiple ones, and this is one of them - that long-term capital gains are taxed differently, lower, than short-term capital gains). 

I'm going to go a little too far out on a limb for this thread, maybe, but suffice to say, there are those (hint: I'm not talking about the usual suspects here, THE RICH, THE BILLIONAIRES, or THE TRADING HOUSES) that want and need us to stay relatively uninformed about how the stock market works.  Lack of knowledge facilitates the victim culture.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 09, 2021, 10:56:28 AM
I've now thrown more than I care to admit into the doge realm.

 :lol This is where I am at. I sunk a few grrr in to it a few weeks ago along with a couple other cryptos, but only after I maxed out our Roth allotments for this year and added to our other investments.

All the days of my life I ask the Lord why I was born on this side of the world? Why I didn't learn about finance and investments earlier in my life.

Not sure where you hail from, but why do you think this is a regional thing? I am pretty sure here in the US personal finance isn't taught at all in schools. You need to either learn it yourself or hope your parents give you the skills and knowledge. I didn't learn a thing from my dad and he was an accountant for most of his life.

You are right, it seems I was just frustrated and didn't think well my thoughts before posting.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 10, 2021, 11:00:26 AM
PSA: go get some $NANO

https://nano.org/

Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on February 10, 2021, 11:46:40 AM
Got any inside dope to back that up?  :)
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 11, 2021, 12:10:40 PM
Got any inside dope to back that up?  :)

Well I got 22 $NANO from a friend at $22 dollars and the thing has been moving pretty well the last couple of days. Now my 22 are worth 137 dollars, I know, I know, it's not much, but if the thing keeps going up I can say it was a good investment.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on February 11, 2021, 12:12:58 PM
I've now thrown more than I care to admit into the doge realm.

 :lol This is where I am at. I sunk a few grrr in to it a few weeks ago along with a couple other cryptos, but only after I maxed out our Roth allotments for this year and added to

I ended up getting out during a little spike yesterday. I made just shy of a grand and walked away.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 11, 2021, 01:21:47 PM
I've now thrown more than I care to admit into the doge realm.

 :lol This is where I am at. I sunk a few grrr in to it a few weeks ago along with a couple other cryptos, but only after I maxed out our Roth allotments for this year and added to

I ended up getting out during a little spike yesterday. I made just shy of a grand and walked away.


This pretty much captures the essence of what I was saying earlier.  You invested.  It went up, you took some profit.  Nothing wrong with that.  In fact, that's like, the point.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on February 11, 2021, 07:26:00 PM
PSA: go get some $NANO

Dang, should have listened to you... up over 40% today.

I ended up getting out during a little spike yesterday. I made just shy of a grand and walked away.

What happened to "To the moon?!"
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 12, 2021, 04:30:35 AM
Itís not too late.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on February 12, 2021, 05:31:34 AM
PSA: go get some $NANO

Dang, should have listened to you... up over 40% today.

I ended up getting out during a little spike yesterday. I made just shy of a grand and walked away.

What happened to "To the moon?!"

 :lol :lol
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Vmadera00 on March 12, 2021, 07:04:23 AM
Don't know where else to post this. Have any of you been following this "Crypto Art" thing?

https://www.cnet.com/news/christies-nft-auction-closes-at-69-million-as-digital-art-sets-off-a-gold-rush/

I'm still trying to wrap my head around people buying tweets and digital art (specially for such a high price).

I get the whole thing of getting the original, high quality file. I think it would make sense for music, where you get the master track, but an image or tweet just seems...weird (for lack of a better term). We all seen the "bad luck Brian" meme. Well, that just sold for $36,000

https://www.businessinsider.com/bad-luck-brian-meme-nft-crypto-art-blockchain-ethereum-foundation-2021-3
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 12, 2021, 07:36:27 AM
Never heard of it until now and I certainly don't understand the value, but I feel like a lot of art has value to people that I don't understand so I guess this is just another variation of that.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 12, 2021, 05:08:32 PM
And I just got home and logged into twitter and see this from a local artist I follow:

https://twitter.com/jayalders/status/1370525103969161217 (https://twitter.com/jayalders/status/1370525103969161217)

He does custom artwork for the local 311 show posters and I see after clicking the link that he's seliing the digital art for the last 311 concert in NJ he did poster artwork for...  https://opensea.io/assets/0x495f947276749ce646f68ac8c248420045cb7b5e/80664583166715799761198844096283981962147416828196170924476407694787044442113 (https://opensea.io/assets/0x495f947276749ce646f68ac8c248420045cb7b5e/80664583166715799761198844096283981962147416828196170924476407694787044442113)

I don't understand it.  It says it's 1 of 1 but digital, I guess that has something to do with the blockchain aspect of it? Either way, its got not bigs at 25 cents starting but a reserve price of $443 which I just can't fathom paying for a file of a picture.  Once again, I don't understand but if people find value in it, so be it.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on March 14, 2021, 11:54:15 AM
I plan on throwing some of my stimulus into crypto. Other than Bitcoin I haven't heard much about any of the others. Thoughts on how I should divvy it out? I was thinking $2000 total for now. All in bitcoin, or diversify into some of the others too?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on March 14, 2021, 01:05:47 PM
Diversity is usually paramount to just about anything when it comes to investing, but alt currencies are so confusing to me I am not sure even that applies here.  :lol

I have had $10k split between 4 different cryptos since the start of the year. I did a little reading before starting, but I am still sub-novice level on this.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on March 14, 2021, 02:58:27 PM
Diversity is usually paramount to just about anything when it comes to investing, but alt currencies are so confusing to me I am not sure even that applies here.  :lol

I have had $10k split between 4 different cryptos since the start of the year. I did a little reading before starting, but I am still sub-novice level on this.
Yeah, I figured diversifying is a good thing. I just don't know if it's best to invest in 5 different cryptos evenly, or weigh the bigger ones more. If nothing else, I thought about throwing $100 in on some of the newer, lower value ones just in case they really take off like bitcoin has. Ultimately I think I want to get to 5% of my portfolio in crypto, but it will take me some time to get there.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on March 14, 2021, 08:44:06 PM
Right, "diversification" normally means large cap, small cap, bonds, etc.... that doesn't translate to crypto.

Without looking I imagine I am at about 5% of my non-retirement investments in crypto at the moment.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Phoenix87x on March 18, 2021, 07:33:34 AM
What app/site do you guys recommend to buy on?

I was looking at either Swanbitcoin or robinhood
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 18, 2021, 09:34:16 AM
What app/site do you guys recommend to buy on?

I was looking at either Swanbitcoin or robinhood


Depends on what cryptos you want to buy. My brother gifted me some bitcoin on coinbase so I have that, but I mainly use Robinhood because it's free.  Robinhood got a lot of flack recently for the GME stuff, but I find the app to be so simple and easy, and free so it's a bit hard for me to completely drop it because of their actions (which might have actually saved me money).
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on March 18, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Does Robinhood allow you guys to buy crypto and move it to your wallets? Or are you guys buying CFD only?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on March 18, 2021, 10:26:28 AM
Does Robinhood allow you guys to buy crypto and move it to your wallets? Or are you guys buying CFD only?

Negative. You don't actually hold the currency in any capacity when you use Robin Hood.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 18, 2021, 11:29:30 AM
Does Robinhood allow you guys to buy crypto and move it to your wallets? Or are you guys buying CFD only?

Negative. You don't actually hold the currency in any capacity when you use Robin Hood.

Other than moving between wallets, is there a reason I should be concerned with having some bitcoin in robinhood?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on March 18, 2021, 11:32:08 AM
Does Robinhood allow you guys to buy crypto and move it to your wallets? Or are you guys buying CFD only?

Negative. You don't actually hold the currency in any capacity when you use Robin Hood.

Other than moving between wallets, is there a reason I should be concerned with having some bitcoin in robinhood?

You have no way to spend it if your intention is to actually use it as currency. At least I don't think you can through robinhood.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 18, 2021, 11:33:47 AM
Does Robinhood allow you guys to buy crypto and move it to your wallets? Or are you guys buying CFD only?

Negative. You don't actually hold the currency in any capacity when you use Robin Hood.

Other than moving between wallets, is there a reason I should be concerned with having some bitcoin in robinhood?

You have no way to spend it if your intention is to actually use it as currency. At least I don't think you can through robinhood.

Ah, fine by me if that's the case.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on March 18, 2021, 11:56:42 AM
Does Robinhood allow you guys to buy crypto and move it to your wallets? Or are you guys buying CFD only?

Negative. You don't actually hold the currency in any capacity when you use Robin Hood.

Other than moving between wallets, is there a reason I should be concerned with having some bitcoin in robinhood?

I think the safest way is to have the cryptos under your own control. If something goes terribly wrong with RH you could lose your investment.

What Chino said too.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on March 18, 2021, 08:11:29 PM
What app/site do you guys recommend to buy on?

I am sub-novice level on this so don't take it as a recommendation, but I use Uphold.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on March 18, 2021, 08:49:11 PM
I have friends into crypto and they recommend
Binance
Kraken
Blockchain
Cryptocurrency
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on March 19, 2021, 07:38:07 AM
Curious what all your intention is for your crypto currencies? Do you frequently buy and sell as the market fluctuates? Any buy and hold investors? I'm generally a buy and hold investors in stocks, but crypto seems to be a different animal.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 19, 2021, 10:58:25 AM
Curious what all your intention is for your crypto currencies? Do you frequently buy and sell as the market fluctuates? Any buy and hold investors? I'm generally a buy and hold investors in stocks, but crypto seems to be a different animal.

I dont have the time of day nor the risky attitude to be a day trader.  I'm buying and holding for now.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on March 20, 2021, 08:22:41 AM
Curious what all your intention is for your crypto currencies? Do you frequently buy and sell as the market fluctuates? Any buy and hold investors? I'm generally a buy and hold investors in stocks, but crypto seems to be a different animal.

I dont have the time of day nor the risky attitude to be a day trader.  I'm buying and holding for now.
This is what I'm thinking too. I'm dumping $2000 into crypto for now, mostly in Bitcoin and Ethereum, but a little in some smaller ones too. I don't plan to sell any of them unless they go through a crazy 5000% spike or something. I plan to add a little more here and there, especially in more small ones. Those are the ones with the potential for massive growth. I don't think Bitcoin has another 5000% gain in it. But the small ones have a higher risk of being a complete bust too.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on March 20, 2021, 08:50:22 AM
I follow a guy on Telegram he always talks about altcoins such as
ADA
DENT
NPXS
WIN
VET
NANO
BANANO (this one I am mining through Folding@Home - https://bananominer.com/) it's ridiculously cheap but seems to have a great project and a great community.

EDIT: hereís the Telegram channel https://t.me/projectmimo
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on March 20, 2021, 05:47:23 PM
I evaluate my MF/ETF positions periodically, and buy/sell what few equities I pursue occasionally. But I am planning on holding my crypto for the long haul.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on March 22, 2021, 05:55:21 AM
Curious what all your intention is for your crypto currencies? Do you frequently buy and sell as the market fluctuates? Any buy and hold investors? I'm generally a buy and hold investors in stocks, but crypto seems to be a different animal.

I dont have the time of day nor the risky attitude to be a day trader.  I'm buying and holding for now.
This is what I'm thinking too. I'm dumping $2000 into crypto for now, mostly in Bitcoin and Ethereum, but a little in some smaller ones too. I don't plan to sell any of them unless they go through a crazy 5000% spike or something. I plan to add a little more here and there, especially in more small ones. Those are the ones with the potential for massive growth. I don't think Bitcoin has another 5000% gain in it. But the small ones have a higher risk of being a complete bust too.

You never know what the future holds. I remember when Bitcoin was approaching $1000 and nobody could fathom the gains. Same thing when it approached $10,000. Another 5000% climb seems like a bit of a stretch, but with time and inflation, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bitcoin approach $250K one day, maybe more. It's going to become a way for the uber rich and the elite to keep their money safe.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on March 22, 2021, 11:41:59 AM
HOW TO Buy #TRDG💰:

1- Install Trust Wallet
2- Go to the Dex part
3- Swap BNB to Smarchain
4- Go to the Dapp part
5- Search pancakeswap.finance
6- Set network to Smartchain
7- Set Slippage 6%
🚀Swap BNB to #TRDG🚀

🍎Add #TRDG token to Trust Wallet & PancakeSwap:
Copy contract address in search box

🍎Contract address:
0x92a42Db88Ed0F02c71D439e55962Ca7CAB0168b5

🍎Last price:
https://t.me/TardigradesPriceChat

🍎Chart link:
https://goswapp-bsc.web.app/0x92a42db88ed0f02c71d439e55962ca7cab0168b5

🍎Number of holders:
https://bscscan.com/token/0x92a42db88ed0f02c71d439e55962ca7cab0168b5#balances

💻Site: tardigrades.finance
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on April 06, 2021, 09:12:51 PM
No idea what it is or what it does* but XRP is up over 40% in the past 48 hours**.


*sadly, as I own some

**happily, as I own some
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2021, 09:46:25 AM
No idea what it is or what it does* but XRP is up over 40% in the past 48 hours**.


*sadly, as I own some

**happily, as I own some
I'm in the exact same boat. Fun to watch it go up, but I don't own enough to get too excited. It's one of the handful of minor ones I tossed $100 at in case it saw a massive spike for some reason. It's coming back down now of course, along with pretty much everything else.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on April 11, 2021, 10:46:46 AM
Now it's 119% for the week, 213% for the month.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on April 13, 2021, 11:14:44 AM
ETH is having a pretty good run at the moment, I'm happy I was able to get some a little while back.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on April 13, 2021, 11:23:59 AM
Bitcoin over 63k now, doge coin is going up too. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on April 13, 2021, 11:46:43 AM
I made a cool $200 on doge today. I got out about twenty minutes ago and will put it all back in at the dump.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on April 13, 2021, 07:19:16 PM
I am at the point now where, on the one hand, I am afraid to tell my wife how much money I sank in to crypto, and on the other, telling her how well things are trending up. Since January when I bought in to crypto, I have "made" more money in digital coins than I've made at my job.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 13, 2021, 08:33:31 PM
I am at the point now where, on the one hand, I am afraid to tell my wife how much money I sank in to crypto, and on the other, telling her how well things are trending up. Since January when I bought in to crypto, I have "made" more money in digital coins than I've made at my job.

Amazing!
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on April 14, 2021, 05:12:32 AM
Long story short... I had 2000 Dogecoin at .049 that I completely forgot about in my Voyager app  :lol :lol I bought it at the end of February. Pretty sure I was a bit inebriated. I went to buy some through the app last night and there was some already in my account  :metal
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on April 14, 2021, 06:06:35 AM
Long story short... I had 2000 Dogecoin at .049 that I completely forgot about in my Voyager app  :lol :lol I bought it at the end of February. Pretty sure I was a bit inebriated. I went to buy some through the app last night and there was some already in my account  :metal

That's awesome!
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on April 14, 2021, 07:33:17 AM
It's been a fun few days. I'm up close to 30% total in all my crypto just over the last few weeks since I started buying. I'm honestly a bit confused how to handle crypto. If we're talking stock, I buy and hold basically until I reach the point I need the money. It feels like crypto may not be the same type of game. Is it wrong to just buy and hold and ride the crazy ups and downs and hope over the next decade or two that the value continues to climb?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on April 14, 2021, 07:46:20 AM
It's been a fun few days. I'm up close to 30% total in all my crypto just over the last few weeks since I started buying. I'm honestly a bit confused how to handle crypto. If we're talking stock, I buy and hold basically until I reach the point I need the money. It feels like crypto may not be the same type of game. Is it wrong to just buy and hold and ride the crazy ups and downs and hope over the next decade or two that the value continues to climb?

No.  You don't need to play the game.

Does anyone know why cryptos are skyrocketing this week?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on April 14, 2021, 07:51:45 AM
It's been a fun few days. I'm up close to 30% total in all my crypto just over the last few weeks since I started buying. I'm honestly a bit confused how to handle crypto. If we're talking stock, I buy and hold basically until I reach the point I need the money. It feels like crypto may not be the same type of game. Is it wrong to just buy and hold and ride the crazy ups and downs and hope over the next decade or two that the value continues to climb?

No.  You don't need to play the game.

Does anyone know why cryptos are skyrocketing this week?

Coinbase IPO is today
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 14, 2021, 07:55:38 AM
It's been a fun few days. I'm up close to 30% total in all my crypto just over the last few weeks since I started buying. I'm honestly a bit confused how to handle crypto. If we're talking stock, I buy and hold basically until I reach the point I need the money. It feels like crypto may not be the same type of game. Is it wrong to just buy and hold and ride the crazy ups and downs and hope over the next decade or two that the value continues to climb?

No.  You don't need to play the game.

Does anyone know why cryptos are skyrocketing this week?

I am not sure, but I've been reading that this is a bull year for alt coins whatever that means.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on April 14, 2021, 07:59:12 AM
It's been a fun few days. I'm up close to 30% total in all my crypto just over the last few weeks since I started buying. I'm honestly a bit confused how to handle crypto. If we're talking stock, I buy and hold basically until I reach the point I need the money. It feels like crypto may not be the same type of game. Is it wrong to just buy and hold and ride the crazy ups and downs and hope over the next decade or two that the value continues to climb?

No.  You don't need to play the game.

Does anyone know why cryptos are skyrocketing this week?

Coinbase IPO is today

Interesting.  Also, I understand NFTs use Eth, is that something I should invest in as well?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on April 14, 2021, 09:34:30 PM
It's been a fun few days. I'm up close to 30% total in all my crypto just over the last few weeks since I started buying. I'm honestly a bit confused how to handle crypto. If we're talking stock, I buy and hold basically until I reach the point I need the money. It feels like crypto may not be the same type of game. Is it wrong to just buy and hold and ride the crazy ups and downs and hope over the next decade or two that the value continues to climb?

I know you are smarter than many on the subject of personal finances, so do what works best for you. My investments are for the long-term, and I am treating crypto the same. We are by no means wealthy, but live modestly and fortunately do not need to rely on stock transactions for any additional income. Yet it is nice to know it is there for us should we need it in an emergency.

In January I would never have told my wife how much I put in to crypto. That is beyond her scope and knowledge, and more importantly, her risk tolerance. When I showed her the positions of our crypto, she asked me why I didn't invest more.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on April 15, 2021, 06:23:40 AM
It's been a fun few days. I'm up close to 30% total in all my crypto just over the last few weeks since I started buying. I'm honestly a bit confused how to handle crypto. If we're talking stock, I buy and hold basically until I reach the point I need the money. It feels like crypto may not be the same type of game. Is it wrong to just buy and hold and ride the crazy ups and downs and hope over the next decade or two that the value continues to climb?

I know you are smarter than many on the subject of personal finances, so do what works best for you. My investments are for the long-term, and I am treating crypto the same. We are by no means wealthy, but live modestly and fortunately do not need to rely on stock transactions for any additional income. Yet it is nice to know it is there for us should we need it in an emergency.

In January I would never have told my wife how much I put in to crypto. That is beyond her scope and knowledge, and more importantly, her risk tolerance. When I showed her the positions of our crypto, she asked me why I didn't invest more.

Yeah, I think it's more in my nature to just buy and hold. I think that once I get closer to financial independence, I'll choose as percentage of my investments I want in crypto and anytime it goes above that I'll sell and anytime it drops below that I'll buy. I don't know what that percentage will be long term. Right now I want to get up to 5%, but that's going to take a couple years to get to probably. For now I'm going to toss a few hundred bucks a month in like clockwork and hope for the best.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on April 15, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
Right now I want to get up to 5%, but that's going to take a couple years to get to probably. For now I'm going to toss a few hundred bucks a month in like clockwork and hope for the best.

Did some quick spreadsheet updating, and I am at about 4% but that is largely due to the spike of the past 48 hours. Speaking of which... how is Chino doing?

I made a cool $200 on doge today. I got out about twenty minutes ago.....
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on April 16, 2021, 04:52:55 AM
I'm just shy of 1% right now, but considering I had nothing a few weeks ago, maybe I'll be able to make it to 5% fairly quickly. Though I have the third stimulus check to thank for nearly all of what I have in now.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on April 16, 2021, 07:39:08 AM
I bought a dollar amount's worth of doge at .14 that I'm not comfortable sharing, but the last 36 hours have been the most excitement I've had in over a year, maybe ever. This is basically a game of who's willing to hold the bag the longest at this point.

The new roof and chimney work I'm getting over the next two weeks is now bought and paid for if I were to decide to dump right now... I don't know what to do. I'm a greedy bastard.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on April 16, 2021, 07:48:02 AM
My little $40 I threw into Doge last week seems to be doing well

 :lol that $40 has turned to $340, of course now I wish I put serious money and not "for fun" money into it.  But honestly, I still don't get it so I'm not comfortable putting serious money into things I don't understand.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on April 18, 2021, 05:07:43 AM
Well... There go nearly all my gains in a single day! Time to buy the dip I guess.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on April 18, 2021, 01:16:08 PM
Nearly all? I lost a decent amount of what I gained over the past week, which, as Chino said, was ridiculously exciting for my mundane life. I drive a lot for work some days and it got to the point where I was nearly checking my account at red lights!
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on April 19, 2021, 07:07:00 AM
Not sure if this was posted early but it gave me a good laugh

(https://i.imgur.com/DO162Ki.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on April 19, 2021, 07:09:32 AM
 :lol yup, I unloaded my Doge this weekend and then it continues to go up
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on April 19, 2021, 07:24:26 AM
Nearly all? I lost a decent amount of what I gained over the past week, which, as Chino said, was ridiculously exciting for my mundane life. I drive a lot for work some days and it got to the point where I was nearly checking my account at red lights!
I had lost about 75% of my gains at one point. It's bounced back a bit now.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on April 19, 2021, 07:45:42 AM
So I think I'm going to pump the brakes with doge even though I'm confident we'll see it hit a dollar this year. I took out enough of my earnings to put $4K down on my new roof. I took out my initial investment and a bit extra to treat myself to some great steak over the weekend. I've got 3500 doge left that I didn't pay a cent of my own money for, and I think I'm going to leave it at that and let it ride. It's been fun.   

Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on April 19, 2021, 08:17:33 AM
So I think I'm going to pump the brakes with doge even though I'm confident we'll see it hit a dollar this year. I took out enough of my earnings to put $4K down on my new roof. I took out my initial investment and a bit extra to treat myself to some great steak over the weekend. I've got 3500 doge left that I didn't pay a cent of my own money for, and I think I'm going to leave it at that and let it ride. It's been fun.   

Well done
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: XJDenton on April 19, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Anyone have thoughts on the energy efficiency problems of cryptocurrency?

https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/21/the-debate-about-cryptocurrency-and-energy-consumption/
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on April 23, 2021, 01:52:54 PM
Anyone have thoughts on the energy efficiency problems of cryptocurrency?

https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/21/the-debate-about-cryptocurrency-and-energy-consumption/

I think this can be a serious issue.  It definitely makes me wonder if NFTs are truly worth it in the long run.

On another note, I flipped my $40 I had in doge coin when I sold it for $200 last week, just put that $200 into bitcoin when it was 49k today.  If I had more money in my robinhood, I'd probably had put a little more in. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on April 23, 2021, 09:52:34 PM
Well that was fun while it lasted. I am not in it for the quick turn-around, so will look forward to the next wave of excitement.

Anyone have thoughts on the energy efficiency problems of cryptocurrency?

https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/21/the-debate-about-cryptocurrency-and-energy-consumption/

There was an article about this in a local source. It was a bit over my head (as all of this is) so I honestly wasn't sure exactly what to make of it.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 23, 2021, 11:59:23 PM
Sad story, there are some guys into shitcoins, they contacted me to build a website and told me they could pay me with shitcoins tokens, one they were developing. I asked how many tokens they would give me, they said the equivalent of 0.5 ETH with the condition that I don't dump on them immediately to not bring the price down, I agreed, did the website, they paid me. I was SUPER happy about the 0.5 ETH.

I didn't sell as I agreed with them, and I was very happy because my 0.5 ETH suddenly was 0.6, 0.7 and on and on.

Then I went with my wife and the kids to visit some friends in a region where my connectivity to the internet was non-existing. No signal on my phone, the friends we visited for the whole week didn't have internet connectivity at their house.

Today we came back home we took some time to organized the house, do some cleaning, watch some TV and about 30 minutes ago I checked the chart and almost had a heart attack.

(https://i.ibb.co/mvG2nFF/wenr.png) (https://ibb.co/hXy4G11)

A couple of days ago there was a HUGE green candle that would have turned my 0.5 ETH to at least 5.6 ETH Even if I didn't sell during that huge green candle I would have triple my payment. I have just sold for 0.7 ETH still good but darn, if only...

Right now, I want to get under the table and cry.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on May 01, 2021, 11:50:09 PM
Do you still have your ETH?

DOGE is having another great run these last couple days. I am ashamed to admit I have thousands of dollars in something I am not sure I know how to pronounce. I have never heard anyone ever say it, I have only read about it.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on May 02, 2021, 07:19:38 AM
I'm currently around 80% of my crypto portfolio in ETH, waiting for a bit of a pull back to buy more.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on May 02, 2021, 08:37:43 AM
Do you still have your ETH?

DOGE is having another great run these last couple days. I am ashamed to admit I have thousands of dollars in something I am not sure I know how to pronounce. I have never heard anyone ever say it, I have only read about it.

Very curious to see how it's going to spike come Saturday when Elon hosts SNL.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on May 02, 2021, 11:49:36 AM
I didn't realize he was hosting Saturday. I might have to buy some doge
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on May 02, 2021, 11:53:17 AM
I didn't realize he was hosting Saturday. I might have to buy some doge

Yup, and I'd gather he'll take advantage of the moment to promote it. I'd imagine it's going to be funny af too, especially if he has any talent to act or whether the cast can carry him well.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 03, 2021, 06:51:22 AM
Do you still have your ETH?

DOGE is having another great run these last couple days. I am ashamed to admit I have thousands of dollars in something I am not sure I know how to pronounce. I have never heard anyone ever say it, I have only read about it.

I sold, and seeing current prices I feel stupid.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on May 03, 2021, 07:59:13 AM
I was thinking over the weekend about crypto wondering if in 5 years I'll regret having put any money in it at all or regret not having put more money in. I think it is much more likely I'll regret not putting more in though there will surely be some crazy ups and downs along the way. Now it's just trying to figure out where to find the money. I could stop contributing to my and my wife's roth IRAs, but I'm not sure I'm ready to go that all-in on crypto. That tax free growth is hard to pass up. I dropped my 401k to just enough to get the full employer match, which frees up $340 a month to put into crypto. I know I should treat this like any other investment and just dollar cost average in every month and watch it grow. I guess I'm just anxious to get enough money in so that if something doubles in value, we'll be talking about some real money instead of just a few thousand bucks. I'm trying to get more aggressive overall with my investments and crypto definitely has the best chance to offer some huge gains. I guess I've been thinking a lot about financial independence and wanting to get the much sooner than I originally planned.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 03, 2021, 03:28:43 PM
Just got off the phone with Vitalik, he's confirmed my suspicions.

There is a sell side liquidity crisis on $ETH. Spot is leading and funding is negative, current price $3250.

May God help us all.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on May 03, 2021, 06:41:21 PM
I was thinking over the weekend about crypto wondering if in 5 years I'll regret having put any money in it at all or regret not having put more money in. I think it is much more likely I'll regret not putting more in though there will surely be some crazy ups and downs along the way. Now it's just trying to figure out where to find the money. I could stop contributing to my and my wife's roth IRAs, but I'm not sure I'm ready to go that all-in on crypto. That tax free growth is hard to pass up. I dropped my 401k to just enough to get the full employer match, which frees up $340 a month to put into crypto. I know I should treat this like any other investment and just dollar cost average in every month and watch it grow. I guess I'm just anxious to get enough money in so that if something doubles in value, we'll be talking about some real money instead of just a few thousand bucks. I'm trying to get more aggressive overall with my investments and crypto definitely has the best chance to offer some huge gains. I guess I've been thinking a lot about financial independence and wanting to get the much sooner than I originally planned.

That is about where I am at. Of course we don't want to be thinking along the lines of "Why didn't I invest in Amazon and Netflix in the late 90s?!" I max out our IRA, I couldn't bring myself to stop that. We contribute a healthy amount to my wife's defined contribution plan at work, and she has a defined benefits plan too (where, if my math is correct, is where a large chunk of our golden year money will come from). Fortunately, I do not see my wife wanting to retire early. I don't have a ton of money laying around for massive investments elsewhere, but I am putting more in to crypto that I would have imagined before the start of this year.

Just got off the phone with Vitalik, he's confirmed my suspicions.

There is a sell side liquidity crisis on $ETH. Spot is leading and funding is negative, current price $3250.

May God help us all.

Had to look up Vitalik. Thought it might have been an inside guy you know working a burner phone out of an abandoned warehouse.  :)
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on May 04, 2021, 05:36:42 AM
So I think I'm going to pump the brakes with doge even though I'm confident we'll see it hit a dollar this year. I took out enough of my earnings to put $4K down on my new roof. I took out my initial investment and a bit extra to treat myself to some great steak over the weekend. I've got 3500 doge left that I didn't pay a cent of my own money for, and I think I'm going to leave it at that and let it ride. It's been fun.   

I officially regret this decision  :lol :lol
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on May 04, 2021, 05:36:57 AM

So I think I'm going to pump the brakes with doge even though I'm confident we'll see it hit a dollar this year. I took out enough of my earnings to put $4K down on my new roof. I took out my initial investment and a bit extra to treat myself to some great steak over the weekend. I've got 3500 doge left that I didn't pay a cent of my own money for, and I think I'm going to leave it at that and let it ride. It's been fun.   

I regret this decision  :lol :lol
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on May 04, 2021, 06:16:46 AM
I was thinking over the weekend about crypto wondering if in 5 years I'll regret having put any money in it at all or regret not having put more money in. I think it is much more likely I'll regret not putting more in though there will surely be some crazy ups and downs along the way. Now it's just trying to figure out where to find the money. I could stop contributing to my and my wife's roth IRAs, but I'm not sure I'm ready to go that all-in on crypto. That tax free growth is hard to pass up. I dropped my 401k to just enough to get the full employer match, which frees up $340 a month to put into crypto. I know I should treat this like any other investment and just dollar cost average in every month and watch it grow. I guess I'm just anxious to get enough money in so that if something doubles in value, we'll be talking about some real money instead of just a few thousand bucks. I'm trying to get more aggressive overall with my investments and crypto definitely has the best chance to offer some huge gains. I guess I've been thinking a lot about financial independence and wanting to get the much sooner than I originally planned.

That is about where I am at. Of course we don't want to be thinking along the lines of "Why didn't I invest in Amazon and Netflix in the late 90s?!" I max out our IRA, I couldn't bring myself to stop that. We contribute a healthy amount to my wife's defined contribution plan at work, and she has a defined benefits plan too (where, if my math is correct, is where a large chunk of our golden year money will come from). Fortunately, I do not see my wife wanting to retire early. I don't have a ton of money laying around for massive investments elsewhere, but I am putting more in to crypto that I would have imagined before the start of this year.
The problem I'm having is thinking things like "If I were to pull all my contributions from my Roth IRA tax free and dump it in crypto, do I think I'll be better off in 5 years?" and the answer is that I'm 80% sure I'd make significantly more in crypto (with some crazy ups and downs along the way). So my logical brain says, "then do it!", but when I take a step back it seems like an absolutely crazy thing to do. I'm not going to do it. I'm just going to dump in any extra cash I have. But I can see kicking myself in 5 years for not doing it when I would have made way more money.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on May 04, 2021, 06:50:48 AM
 :lol


Where did you sell yours at?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on May 04, 2021, 06:50:53 AM
So I dun fucked up guys. When I read this post I thought what the fuck I'll throw some money at doge, I tried to buy $300 on binance. Well the order didn't go through, I stupidly backed up and hit confirm a few times, didn't work so I said fuck it, it's probably stupid anyway. Well I check my bank account today and I'm out $1800, apparently all those orders went through. I set my limit up to break even and gonna let it ride for a bit.

I didn't realize he was hosting Saturday. I might have to buy some doge

Yup, and I'd gather he'll take advantage of the moment to promote it. I'd imagine it's going to be funny af too, especially if he has any talent to act or whether the cast can carry him well.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on May 04, 2021, 06:58:39 AM
:lol


Where did you sell yours at?

It's hard to give a specific amount. I wish I just sat on my very first buy. I initially had something like 16,000 coins at .08. I sold all of those around .13. It dipped. I bought a lot more. I sold a little, then bought a little, bought a little more, etc.

Recently I sold off a lot of it. Basically taking out all my profits and investments, leaving me with 3500 coins that I paid nothing for. I threw another $280 on the pile last week when it dipped back into the high .20s. Long story short, I'm sitting on 4400 Doge that cost me a grand total of $200 ($0.045 or something like that), but I wish I was still sitting on my initial 16,000 Doge
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on May 04, 2021, 07:00:14 AM
So I dun fucked up guys. When I read this post I thought what the fuck I'll throw some money at doge, I tried to buy $300 on binance. Well the order didn't go through, I stupidly backed up and hit confirm a few times, didn't work so I said fuck it, it's probably stupid anyway. Well I check my bank account today and I'm out $1800, apparently all those orders went through. I set my limit up to break even and gonna let it ride for a bit.



That's what happened with my on my Voyage account. I didn't think I had anything in there, and it turns out an order for 2000 Doge went through and I never noticed.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on May 04, 2021, 08:35:17 AM
The problem I'm having is thinking things like "If I were to pull all my contributions from my Roth IRA tax free and dump it in crypto, do I think I'll be better off in 5 years?" and the answer is that I'm 80% sure I'd make significantly more in crypto (with some crazy ups and downs along the way). So my logical brain says, "then do it!", but when I take a step back it seems like an absolutely crazy thing to do. I'm not going to do it. I'm just going to dump in any extra cash I have. But I can see kicking myself in 5 years for not doing it when I would have made way more money.

Exactly. Except... do you mean literally pull funds out of your Roth, or were you referring to any future deposits?

My wife trusts me implicitly on our finances. She really has no interest at all in what I do. But if I did something too drastic I might feel obligated to discuss with her. But then I'd have to explain how all this cryptocurrency stuff worked, and I doubt I could do a good job at it. And if I showed her our numbers now, she'd tell me to take enough out for us to get the new car she wants. I've already told her that is part of my plan in 2023 when the last kid is out of preschool.

So I dun fucked up guys. When I read this post I thought what the fuck I'll throw some money at doge, I tried to buy $300 on binance. Well the order didn't go through, I stupidly backed up and hit confirm a few times, didn't work so I said fuck it, it's probably stupid anyway. Well I check my bank account today and I'm out $1800, apparently all those orders went through.

Man, I would have hated to experience that, even if I could withstand that $1800 outlay.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on May 04, 2021, 09:21:06 AM
The problem I'm having is thinking things like "If I were to pull all my contributions from my Roth IRA tax free and dump it in crypto, do I think I'll be better off in 5 years?" and the answer is that I'm 80% sure I'd make significantly more in crypto (with some crazy ups and downs along the way). So my logical brain says, "then do it!", but when I take a step back it seems like an absolutely crazy thing to do. I'm not going to do it. I'm just going to dump in any extra cash I have. But I can see kicking myself in 5 years for not doing it when I would have made way more money.

Exactly. Except... do you mean literally pull funds out of your Roth, or were you referring to any future deposits?
No, I meant literally pulling my past contributions out. Though stopping future contributions is another option, which is tempting, but I don't think I'll do it.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 04, 2021, 12:22:42 PM
I wish I had jumped in the wagon.

Pure insanity. 🤯 Doge market cap larger than Ford, Twitter.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on May 05, 2021, 05:34:05 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/lrziin49t3x61.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=7f9b5d00b93e2746055065691388a94fc026cd04)
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on May 05, 2021, 06:24:25 AM
Yup I feel the same. I keep moving my stop in so I can lock in some profits in case things go south.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 05, 2021, 10:43:11 AM
Anyone have thoughts on the energy efficiency problems of cryptocurrency?

https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/21/the-debate-about-cryptocurrency-and-energy-consumption/

I think this can be a serious issue.  It definitely makes me wonder if NFTs are truly worth it in the long run.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/kevin-o-leary-on-cryptocurrency-i-dont-own-random-et-fs-with-blood-coin-in-them-151220436.html (https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/kevin-o-leary-on-cryptocurrency-i-dont-own-random-et-fs-with-blood-coin-in-them-151220436.html)
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on May 05, 2021, 07:01:19 PM
Did some quick spreadsheet updating, and I am at about 4% but that is largely due to the spike of the past 48 hours.

So, that number has gone up a few percentage points.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 06, 2021, 01:34:58 PM
You want to drive yourself crazy think about this:  If you purchased just $1000 worth of Bitcoin in 2011 and kept it until yesterday you'd have over $16 million.


Do your own calculations: https://dqydj.com/bitcoin-return-calculator/







Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 06, 2021, 01:37:58 PM
And I will STILL stay with my house and my 401k.  Between those two items I can live in retirement in the same style I do today for 20 years and never work again.


I'm not even counting social security in that.  Social security will be my pocket money. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on May 07, 2021, 06:06:48 AM
I hate reading those kinds of things. I've been thinking of getting into crypto for a very long time, but didn't understand it so I stayed away. I still don't understand it, but I don't care anymore. I want to have a small percentage of my investments in it.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 07, 2021, 12:56:41 PM
I hate reading those kinds of things. I've been thinking of getting into crypto for a very long time, but didn't understand it so I stayed away. I still don't understand it, but I don't care anymore. I want to have a small percentage of my investments in it.


Woulda, coulda, shoulda.  If I bought $10,000 worth of Apple stock at their IPO in 1980 I'd have just under $7 million today.


Big difference between Apple and something like crypto is Apple had a product that had massive appeal.  Crypto on the other hand is kind of like...vapor.  There's really no guarantee with any investment but at least with a company that owns and produces stuff there is some collateral value to your investment.  That's not what crypto is, at least not how I understand it. 


But hey, if you've got money you're 100% prepared to lose, and the risk doesn't increase your blood pressure, go for it.


I'm too old for that shit now.  Not enough time to recover if it goes south on me. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 07, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
I think I read somewhere a bit ago, that it's totally a fine idea to put about 5% of your investments into crypto.  It's not nearly the crapshoot it seemed 10 years ago.  But I totally get the questionability about what exactly you are investing in.  Just seems like enough people and therefore society in general has accepted cryptos and therefore given it legitimacy making it not nearly as much of a gamble. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on May 07, 2021, 08:38:39 PM
I think I read somewhere a bit ago, that it's totally a fine idea to put about 5% of your investments into crypto.  It's not nearly the crapshoot it seemed 10 years ago.  But I totally get the questionability about what exactly you are investing in.  Just seems like enough people and therefore society in general has accepted cryptos and therefore given it legitimacy making it not nearly as much of a gamble. 
That's kinda how I feel about it. 5% is what I'm shooting for, both as an investment and as a hedge against inflation.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on May 07, 2021, 09:08:01 PM
Barry and Cram are both right. As with all investments, one needs to assess their age, goals, risk tolerance, capital, and other factors.

Social security will be my pocket money. 

By the time today's youth get to retirement, pocket money may be all social security ever amounts to!
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 08, 2021, 07:25:57 AM
DOGE, SHIB and HOKK are killing it.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on May 08, 2021, 08:15:54 AM
Yea super happy about my doge purchase accident gonna see how it plays out over the weekend.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Phoenix87x on May 08, 2021, 08:42:29 AM
Finally signed up for Swan bitcoin and will be automatically be buying a little bit each week.

Better late than never, lol
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 08, 2021, 07:28:43 PM
Finally signed up for Swan bitcoin and will be automatically be buying a little bit each week.

Better late than never, lol

That's right!

DO you have a link to Swan BTC?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Phoenix87x on May 08, 2021, 08:15:47 PM
A link?

Like this link

https://www.swanbitcoin.com/

I barley understand crypto or the lingo, so sorry
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on May 09, 2021, 09:05:38 AM
Do you still have your ETH?

DOGE is having another great run these last couple days. I am ashamed to admit I have thousands of dollars in something I am not sure I know how to pronounce. I have never heard anyone ever say it, I have only read about it.

Very curious to see how it's going to spike come Saturday when Elon hosts SNL.

Ummm.....
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 09, 2021, 09:14:39 AM
A big whale dumped Doge before SNL I don't understand the timing  :facepalm:

It's still holding pretty well, I think .48 - .50 is the new floor, it will go up again eventually
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 09, 2021, 09:25:18 AM
It was in the 70s before the show and now plummeted. Not sure it matters, it seems likely to eventually go back up and maybe hit $1
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 11, 2021, 03:11:34 PM
guys, I just started on the shitcoins world, and I must say I am an addict now

Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on May 12, 2021, 07:29:46 AM
I'm so tempted to drop another K into doge. It's bad. Am also addicted. It's like a casino at this point.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 12, 2021, 07:53:38 AM
I'm starting to slowly drop my extra pay check cash into ETH to hold.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 12, 2021, 08:40:09 AM
I am seriously considering walking away from my job and dedicating myself to the shitcoin world.

In 2 days I have made more than what I have done in the entire year.

Shitcoin: REAL LOW VALUE AND UNKNOWN TOKENS 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on May 12, 2021, 09:02:06 AM
YTD I am up in currency more than what I've made working a couple times over. I am not ready to make any significant life changes yet though.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 12, 2021, 09:08:56 AM
I am seriously considering walking away from my job and dedicating myself to the shitcoin world.

Anyone I've ever known who thought they could make it on their own day trading has come crawling back begging to be hired again.  Not worth the risk IMO.  You can day trade on the side of your main gig.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on May 12, 2021, 09:15:28 AM
I'm starting to slowly drop my extra pay check cash into ETH to hold.

Yeah, this is my path. Just $25 each check, and let it simmer
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 12, 2021, 11:26:07 AM
I am seriously considering walking away from my job and dedicating myself to the shitcoin world.

Anyone I've ever known who thought they could make it on their own day trading has come crawling back begging to be hired again.  Not worth the risk IMO.  You can day trade on the side of your main gig.

After I posted that I commented it with my wife and she said the exact same thing you said. Good advice. Thanks!
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on May 12, 2021, 12:49:34 PM
Once you mentioned "my wife" I knew where the rest of our post was headed  :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on May 12, 2021, 01:10:55 PM
For reals  :lol
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 12, 2021, 02:02:26 PM
Barry and Cram are both right. As with all investments, one needs to assess their age, goals, risk tolerance, capital, and other factors.

Social security will be my pocket money. 

By the time today's youth get to retirement, pocket money may be all social security ever amounts to!


I'm 56 and I've been hearing this since I was a kid, yet, everyone still seems to get their Social Security if they worked and put into the system.  I mean, sure, you never know what can happen 50 years from now, but just based on the last 40 years or so, I'm not too worried about it going away. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 12, 2021, 02:25:12 PM
Barry and Cram are both right. As with all investments, one needs to assess their age, goals, risk tolerance, capital, and other factors.

Social security will be my pocket money. 

By the time today's youth get to retirement, pocket money may be all social security ever amounts to!


I'm 56 and I've been hearing this since I was a kid, yet, everyone still seems to get their Social Security if they worked and put into the system.  I mean, sure, you never know what can happen 50 years from now, but just based on the last 40 years or so, I'm not too worried about it going away.

I'm certainly not planning on having to rely on SS, so pocket money is the way I'm mentally handling it.  At 36, I have little faith that SS will be very valuable to me when I am ready to retire. I hope I'm wrong, but if I plan to not need it, that's really going to be a nice benefit if it does pay out in the end. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Skeever on May 12, 2021, 02:51:58 PM
SS will get saved. The reason isn't gonna be allowed to fail to begin with is because it's just too rich of an issue for politicians to not be allowed to talk about it. But if/when it ever fails congress will just pump a few more trillion into it and we'll be well on our way.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 12, 2021, 03:22:07 PM
Once you mentioned "my wife" I knew where the rest of our post was headed  :biggrin:

 :rolling

Well Vitalik fucked on most shitcoins today, hahahaha

I am glad I listened to you and my wife
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: axeman90210 on May 12, 2021, 03:26:35 PM
I'm so tempted to drop another K into doge. It's bad. Am also addicted. It's like a casino at this point.

That's all it's ever been ;) "investing in crypto" just sounds cooler than "playing roulette or the slot machines over and over"
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on May 12, 2021, 11:50:53 PM
My comment on social security was (mostly) in jest, I should have smiley-faced it.

Meanwhile... regarding Musk, BTC, and the energy issues surrounding cryptocurrency:

https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-stops-taking-bitcoin-cites-fossil-fuel-use-mining-cybercurrency-2021-05-12/
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on May 13, 2021, 05:51:23 AM
I'm moving my emergency savings to Voyageur and BlockFi in stablecoin. 9.0% interest on USDC at Voyageur and 8.6% interest on GUSD in BlockFi. Not FDIC insured like my current savings account, but by the sounds of it, the risks are pretty low and for those interest rates, I'm going to give it a shot. I split it between two different accounts just as a safety factor.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on May 14, 2021, 05:37:11 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/66v6u7f4ryy61.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=98d08e8afaabeeaa04a546b69eecf6c558fbef6c)

 :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 19, 2021, 07:32:53 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/19/investing/bitcoin-price-drop-china-crypto-intl-hnk/index.html   :eek   :eek   :eek   


Imagine being someone who bought $10,000 worth of bitcoin a month ago  :facepalm:


I mean, you only actually take the loss if you sell when it's down like this, but it has got to me a nerve-rattling ride  :-\




Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 19, 2021, 07:40:00 AM
And this is why that 5% of your portfolio isn't such a bad idea, there's going to be wild swings and if I had more money into it, I would be sweating but I'm not worried.

I do however think Elon is a bit of a douche and is manipulating the market to his own personal gain.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: faizoff on May 19, 2021, 08:20:28 AM
Interesting side topic, it appears NVidia are trying to gimp their RTX 30 series GPU line for Ethereum miners, not sure if it will stop the miners or even increase the GPU supply to the target gamers, only time will tell.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16690/nvidia-to-extend-ethereum-throttle-to-geforce-rtx-3080-3070-3060-ti-lhr-cards

I believe as a consequence with crypto currency getting popular, any PC component being used for mining has increased the price a lot. HDDs/SSDs are also going up in price now as well.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on May 19, 2021, 08:32:46 AM
I wonder how effective it'll be. Nividia has tried this before and if I remember correctly it was circumnavigated by changing the drivers that you were running on the card.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on May 19, 2021, 09:06:33 AM
The market right now...

:splodetard:
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on May 19, 2021, 11:41:15 AM
Yup pretty wild dip, I wish I had money to buy more crypto.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: XJDenton on May 20, 2021, 04:07:09 AM
As an investment, I can't help but feel playing roulette would be more reliable than crypto at this point.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: axeman90210 on May 20, 2021, 05:05:37 AM
You're not wrong.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Elite on May 20, 2021, 05:07:12 AM
yeah. I'm ... not gonna take that gamble.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on May 20, 2021, 06:00:52 AM
I tossed a little more into bitcoin yesterday. I wish I had done more honestly. Looks like things are bouncing back a little so far today. Still hoping to get up to 5% of my investments in crypto by the end of the year.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 20, 2021, 07:50:59 AM
I would have put more down yesterday had I had cash on hand to invest.  Pretty wild what's going on, but that was one hell of a dip.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on May 20, 2021, 09:11:34 AM
I only had $200 I was comfortable tossing in yesterday. I've got $1200 sitting in drawer that's destined for a bunch of car work I'm getting done next Monday. I almost threw that into Doge when it crashed into the 20s.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on May 23, 2021, 10:37:36 AM
Ok what's the over/under on where ethereum will bottom out, cause that shit is in free fall mode. I'm guessing 1200.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: XJDenton on May 23, 2021, 11:11:27 AM
With any luck, zero.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on May 23, 2021, 11:13:04 AM
Why do you feel that way?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on May 23, 2021, 01:23:26 PM
Ok what's the over/under on where ethereum will bottom out, cause that shit is in free fall mode. I'm guessing 1200.

Who knows, I've read predictions that think it'll go sub-1K
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: XJDenton on May 23, 2021, 01:52:34 PM
Why do you feel that way?

Because crypto wastes so much time, energy, computing resources that I would like to see the entire concept die.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on May 23, 2021, 02:41:05 PM
Ok. Appreciate the honesty.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 24, 2021, 02:50:09 PM
Crypto will die when greed dies, meaning, never.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 25, 2021, 12:09:29 PM
Why do you feel that way?

Because crypto wastes so much time, energy, computing resources that I would like to see the entire concept die.

Why do you think it's a waste of time?

Computing resources and energy I totally understand.  However, there is work happening to make that better

https://fortune.com/2021/05/24/ethereum-bitcoin-buterin-carbon-footprint-proof-of-stake/ (https://fortune.com/2021/05/24/ethereum-bitcoin-buterin-carbon-footprint-proof-of-stake/)

https://www.coindesk.com/kevin-oleary-green-bitcoin-consensus-2021 (https://www.coindesk.com/kevin-oleary-green-bitcoin-consensus-2021)
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 25, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
I can't speak for him but as far as it being a waste of time I think the point may be that crypto doesn't produce anything.  It has no output.  It is literally an investment instrument that's not tied to any valuable asset so it doesn't have any natural value on its own, like, say, diamonds, gold or other precious metals/minerals.  It's just space on hard drives in data centers. And it's got a relatively gigantic carbon footprint.


Yes, I know they're working on addressing that but even if they do address it how are they going to address the lack of fundamental value in the product itself.  We used to joke about "vaporware" but we've now arrived in a place where CPU processing cycles are now a form of currency? 


Color me skeptical.  I see a gigantic correction in the future, just like what happened with the World Wide Web in 2000, when all these people literally throwing billions of dollars at internet startups had their financial intestines ripped out through their asses when the bubble popped and everyone realized they had invested in....wait for it....vaporware.  Websites with literally no business plans other than "make a website."  10's of billions of dollars in wealth completely evaporated in about a week and we went into recession. 


Crypto will eventually trigger a similar reaction because the "product" is completely worthless 1's and 0's on a hard drive somewhere in a data center in East Bumfuck, Iowa.   
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: XJDenton on May 25, 2021, 02:35:18 PM
Pretty much this ^. The technologies behind bitcoin and the like also don't scale well to high volume or traffic, which means practically it will always be relegated to niche applications.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 26, 2021, 08:20:54 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/wL53c42/Screenshot-2021-05-26-091836.png) (https://ibb.co/LPVbN1s)
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on May 26, 2021, 09:32:07 AM
 :lol
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Stadler on May 26, 2021, 09:37:13 AM
Pretty much this ^. The technologies behind bitcoin and the like also don't scale well to high volume or traffic, which means practically it will always be relegated to niche applications.

To Barry's point, though, for every 99 "vaporware" sites that, well, vaporized, there was one that endured.  PayPal.  Amazon.  Is there an application for a cryptocurrency - beyond criminal activities - that might survive?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: XJDenton on May 27, 2021, 06:23:34 AM
I reckon it will survive in some capacity, but I don't see there being a paypal or amazon of crypto. I think Vinyl is a more apt comparison.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ErHaO on June 04, 2021, 03:15:43 AM
Saw another headline about Musk trolling crypto. So are some of these billionaires just creating dips and surges? Obviously Musk knows what kind of influence his tweets have. At this point it really seems like this to me: tweet something bad about crypto>causes dip>announce that you believe in it and buy>causes surge>sell>repeat in a couple of months/weeks (or wait for a dip for another reason>buy and announce faith>sell). At this point in time there is little use for crypto as an actual currency (outside of shady of the grid stuff), thus it's value seems so incredibly dependant on internet discourse.

Granted, I have not been following it closely at all, but I just saw yet another "Musk announced friendship with Bitcoin is over" type of headline.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on June 04, 2021, 05:31:45 AM
I hate Musk.
I got blocked on Twitter for a reply to his stupid tweet. Sincerely, I donít understand how what he does is not considered market manipulation, the SEC should be all over that jerk.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on June 04, 2021, 07:11:28 AM
Once Musk got a slap on the wrist for his "might take tesla private @420 a share" a few years back he probably realized he can say whatever the fuck he wants and the SEC won't do a thing about it.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on June 04, 2021, 08:00:42 AM
Does crypto fall under the jurisdiction of the SEC?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 04, 2021, 08:17:18 AM
I hate Musk.
I got blocked on Twitter for a reply to his stupid tweet. Sincerely, I donít understand how what he does is not considered market manipulation, the SEC should be all over that jerk.

While I do agree with this take on Musk.  I'm really being soured by him myself.  I told my friend this just yesterday that I'm not sure what he does on reddit with stocks like AMC to be much different. All this stuff going on seems to be market manipulation to me.  Makes me want to just stay out of it and continue to dump money into some ETFs that are consistent performers and not play along with crypto and whatever wallstreetbets wants to play with.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on June 05, 2021, 09:14:19 AM
Does crypto fall under the jurisdiction of the SEC?

I don't think so, but in due time it will.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on June 05, 2021, 11:35:44 PM
I hate Musk.
I got blocked on Twitter for a reply to his stupid tweet. Sincerely, I donít understand how what he does is not considered market manipulation, the SEC should be all over that jerk.

While I do agree with this take on Musk.  I'm really being soured by him myself.  I told my friend this just yesterday that I'm not sure what he does on reddit with stocks like AMC to be much different. All this stuff going on seems to be market manipulation to me.  Makes me want to just stay out of it and continue to dump money into some ETFs that are consistent performers and not play along with crypto and whatever wallstreetbets wants to play with.

IMO wallstreetbets are bets, and just that. Yes there is some fantastic DD there but with the size of the community it's largely a gamble. I'm with you in the sense of putting my money into ETF's, WSB is simply a gamble for me with fun money.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on June 06, 2021, 08:58:37 PM
This is hilarious. I found this coin a little while back and it was worth nothing and now look at the price:

https://www.coinbase.com/price/cumrocket-crypto

I have to remind myself, the stupider it sounds the more likely i'll make money lmao.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on June 06, 2021, 09:12:07 PM
Circulating supply:
1.4B CUMMIES
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaperKK on June 06, 2021, 09:35:39 PM
Oh looks like Elon tweeted about it, most likely the reasoning behind the surge.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 07, 2021, 08:10:09 AM
Well, this is interesting.... Anonymous going after Elon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG07x3aN3b0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG07x3aN3b0)
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on June 07, 2021, 08:40:27 AM
Well, this is interesting.... Anonymous going after Elon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG07x3aN3b0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG07x3aN3b0)

 :corn
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 07, 2021, 06:16:02 PM
For a small-cap coin that isn't just a meme, give RUNE a look.

https://erikvoorhees.medium.com/an-introduction-to-thorchain-for-bitcoiners-3f621bf0028e < Long article explaining why RUNE actually has value. It's a liquidity-enabling token for the THORChain, a method of swapping coins such as Ethereum/Bitcoin over different blockchains rather than using wrapped/synthetic tokens.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 07, 2021, 06:20:57 PM
Saw another headline about Musk trolling crypto. So are some of these billionaires just creating dips and surges? Obviously Musk knows what kind of influence his tweets have. At this point it really seems like this to me: tweet something bad about crypto>causes dip>announce that you believe in it and buy>causes surge>sell>repeat in a couple of months/weeks (or wait for a dip for another reason>buy and announce faith>sell).

Indeed. Big money wants to move into crypto so they're signal-boosting bad news to create temporary dips for them to buy. You notice how BTC never seems to go under 30k or ETH under 2k? Would cause genuine panic. Support somehow magically comes in at those marks.

Quote
At this point in time there is little use for crypto as an actual currency (outside of shady of the grid stuff), thus it's value seems so incredibly dependant on internet discourse.

Granted, I have not been following it closely at all, but I just saw yet another "Musk announced friendship with Bitcoin is over" type of headline.

As adoption increases there will be more money in the market and it will be harder to do these things. Agreed though that it sucks short term.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on June 09, 2021, 02:35:04 PM
El Salvador to be the first country to accept bitcoin as legal tender.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: reneranucci on June 09, 2021, 08:06:46 PM
El Salvador to be the first country to accept bitcoin as legal tender.
Don't get me started (I'm a citizen from El Salvador). The decision was made based on a capricious desire from our childish President who also controls the absolute majority in Congress. If you believe in BTC, that's fine, reap the benefits privately. But don't commit a whole country to an experiment. The worst part of the stupid, rushed, nonsensical law is that it mandates all economic agents to accept payments in BTC. There's a reason why even the most sophisticated companies in the world won't accept payments in BTC, but hey, let's make your 3-person paper distribution company invest in BTC infrastructure to receive payments in a currency that nobody uses as a method of payment but as a speculative investment. For a country that ranks in the lowest quartile of business competitiveness, we should be looking to reduce costs of doing business. But hey, our leader now has laser eyes on his Tweeter profile and he's being filled with "El Salvador is finally free" and "BTC is prosperity for El Salvador" quotes from crypto-cult lunatics, so I guess everything is fine.

By the way, they should have read the disclaimer available on Bitcoin.org: "Bitcoin is an experimental new currency that is in active development. Each improvement makes Bitcoin more appealing but also reveals new challenges as Bitcoin adoption grows. During these growing pains you might encounter increased fees, slower confirmations, or even more severe issues. Be prepared for problems and consult a technical expert before making any major investments, but keep in mind that nobody can predict Bitcoin's future."
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lonestar on June 09, 2021, 08:28:27 PM
Wow, thanks for the perspective. So if bitcoin crashes, so goes the Salvadoran economy. Fucking frightening.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: reneranucci on June 09, 2021, 08:42:57 PM
Wow, thanks for the perspective. So if bitcoin crashes, so goes the Salvadoran economy. Fucking frightening.
Not so much. The US Dollar is our legal tender and the financial system including the Central Bank are dollarized (yes, from the perspective of the crypto cult we're slaves :)) Unless the government is stupid enough to convert our international reserves (composed by the cash reserve that banks have to maintain to guarantee deposits) into BTC, a Bitcoin crash won't affect anybody who doesn't hold the currency. The problems of the law are others:
- Mandates all economic agents to accept payments in BTC. I don't need to spell out how stupid this is, hopefully companies won't give a shit and just won't complain with the law. Plus, nobody uses crypto for payments, unless you're buying a Tesla with Bitcoin (Also known as the Twitter orgasm)
- The majority of companies have liabilities in dollars (for example, with international suppliers). If they're not bullish in BTC, they'll try to get rid of the shitcoin as soon as possible to avoid the volatility. Bitcoin becomes HotPotatoCoin. The law establishes a Government Trust Fund to guarantee the "immediate convertibility" from BTC to USD, but doesn't say how the government will finance it (by the way, we're running record-high deficits and debt is close to 100% of GDP, but hey, priorities). This overly complicated mechanism signals that Bitcoin adoption is a solution in search of a problem.
- Of course our politicians have promised that Bitcoin will attract investments, and even guaranteed low-cost renewable energy to miners. We have one of the highest energy costs in the world, 30% of households don't have access to electricity, and importing equipment for mining is extremely expensive, so this is just shit coming from the mouth of the President. Nobobdy will mine in the country. Plus, mining does not multiplicate benefits to the country as a whole, only individuals reap the benefits, those with enough cash to buy the equipment.

To me, is a law with imaginary benefits and very real costs.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on June 10, 2021, 01:50:15 PM
Fascinating
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 10, 2021, 05:15:52 PM
- Mandates all economic agents to accept payments in BTC. I don't need to spell out how stupid this is, hopefully companies won't give a shit and just won't complain with the law. Plus, nobody uses crypto for payments, unless you're buying a Tesla with Bitcoin (Also known as the Twitter orgasm)

I've said here before that spending your BTC on product makes little sense to me.  There's a finite amount of BTC. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on June 10, 2021, 06:27:43 PM
Fascinating

I read "fascinating" in Spock's voice, while looking at Kirk shouting "Khan!" My mind cannot process what just happened.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Chino on June 11, 2021, 06:38:53 AM
I now hold 1,544,034,953 in PAWGcoin  :lol :lol I finally set up a legit wallet too instead of just going with whatever I can get on Robinhood or Voyager.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on June 11, 2021, 01:10:57 PM
Does crypto fall under the jurisdiction of the SEC?


I'm pretty sure crypto is 100% unregulated in the USA
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on June 11, 2021, 01:11:38 PM
Fascinating

I read "fascinating" in Spock's voice, while looking at Kirk shouting "Khan!" My mind cannot process what just happened.


 :rollin
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 11, 2021, 11:57:02 PM
Don't get me started (I'm a citizen from El Salvador). The decision was made based on a capricious desire from our childish President who also controls the absolute majority in Congress. If you believe in BTC, that's fine, reap the benefits privately. But don't commit a whole country to an experiment. The worst part of the stupid, rushed, nonsensical law is that it mandates all economic agents to accept payments in BTC. There's a reason why even the most sophisticated companies in the world won't accept payments in BTC, but hey, let's make your 3-person paper distribution company invest in BTC infrastructure to receive payments in a currency that nobody uses as a method of payment but as a speculative investment. For a country that ranks in the lowest quartile of business competitiveness, we should be looking to reduce costs of doing business. But hey, our leader now has laser eyes on his Tweeter profile and he's being filled with "El Salvador is finally free" and "BTC is prosperity for El Salvador" quotes from crypto-cult lunatics, so I guess everything is fine.

By the way, they should have read the disclaimer available on Bitcoin.org: "Bitcoin is an experimental new currency that is in active development. Each improvement makes Bitcoin more appealing but also reveals new challenges as Bitcoin adoption grows. During these growing pains you might encounter increased fees, slower confirmations, or even more severe issues. Be prepared for problems and consult a technical expert before making any major investments, but keep in mind that nobody can predict Bitcoin's future."

Not so much. The US Dollar is our legal tender and the financial system including the Central Bank are dollarized (yes, from the perspective of the crypto cult we're slaves :)) Unless the government is stupid enough to convert our international reserves (composed by the cash reserve that banks have to maintain to guarantee deposits) into BTC, a Bitcoin crash won't affect anybody who doesn't hold the currency. The problems of the law are others:
- Mandates all economic agents to accept payments in BTC. I don't need to spell out how stupid this is, hopefully companies won't give a shit and just won't complain with the law. Plus, nobody uses crypto for payments, unless you're buying a Tesla with Bitcoin (Also known as the Twitter orgasm)
- The majority of companies have liabilities in dollars (for example, with international suppliers). If they're not bullish in BTC, they'll try to get rid of the shitcoin as soon as possible to avoid the volatility. Bitcoin becomes HotPotatoCoin. The law establishes a Government Trust Fund to guarantee the "immediate convertibility" from BTC to USD, but doesn't say how the government will finance it (by the way, we're running record-high deficits and debt is close to 100% of GDP, but hey, priorities). This overly complicated mechanism signals that Bitcoin adoption is a solution in search of a problem.
- Of course our politicians have promised that Bitcoin will attract investments, and even guaranteed low-cost renewable energy to miners. We have one of the highest energy costs in the world, 30% of households don't have access to electricity, and importing equipment for mining is extremely expensive, so this is just shit coming from the mouth of the President. Nobobdy will mine in the country. Plus, mining does not multiplicate benefits to the country as a whole, only individuals reap the benefits, those with enough cash to buy the equipment.
 one
To me, is a law with imaginary benefits and very real costs.

These posts were interesting to read. I'm only learning now about El Salvadorian politics because they're adopting crypto, so it's worthwhile to read something written by someone who actually lives there and isn't just hyping the move on Crypto Twitter. I found it odd that your president started parroting their exact talking points, and your posts validate that feeling. Hopefully it's because he genuinely thinks he can get investors/companies/miners to invest in the country and not because he has a scheme in place to personally profit while gambling with his country's future.

That said....... And I know I'm incredibly biased....... but......

Even if the solution is only half-thought out, it is addressing a real problem. The US Dollar is in danger of being the next Bolivar.

Prices around the world are rising due to supply chain issues. However, prices in America are also rising because of how many US dollars we are printing. I think something like 20% of all US dollars ever printed were made in the last year. We have no incentive to stop doing this either. Many "too big to fail" companies in the US are burdened by debt they cannot feasibly repay, yet they borrow money to buy back shares to increase their stock prices. To help keep major stock prices afloat, our central bank prints money to then buy those stocks. In some meeting last month, the Federal Reserve said they were considering pulling back on how much help they were injecting into the stock market, and it experienced a mini-crash.

While El Salvador's move is the most flamboyant, the rest of the world is also looking to move on from using the USD as its reserve currency. The US's share of the overall global economy is decreasing, and the rest of the major world powers are working on trade arrangements that don't require our money (obscenely long article on Petrodollar collapse: https://www.lynalden.com/fraying-petrodollar-system/)

It's easy for me as a relatively well off American to talk about the importance of crypto currency in an abstract sense. But on a human level, the US is already a very hard country to be poor in relative to Canada or Western Europe, and we're only making that worse with how we're debasing our currency. A 15 dollar minimum wage is meaningless if the price of a bag of rice doubles. Food prices have already gone up about 20% over the past few months.

BitCoin might have flaws. But the real shitcoin is the USD.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: reneranucci on June 12, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
Thank you for taking the time to learn about the experiment in El Salvador and for sharing your thoughts. I enjoyed reading your post and I don't have any major rebuttals. Actually, I'm not against Bitcoin per se, just 100% against making it MANDATORY for all businesses to accept the currency. I think most of the benefits of Bitcoin (hedge against inflation, potential for transactions, etc.) could have been reaped privately by piloting its use in the country and investing government resources to push for education and penetration of the technology, while avoiding most of the social costs and risks of making it a legal tender and forcing 'all economic agents' to understand the technology, invest in a wallet, figure out how to keep count of bitcoins received, setting up a trust with public funds to guarantee convertibility, etc. I've worked in the economic analysis of regulations and the basic tenet is that regulation is the last option to be considered b/c it's usually the most costly and irreversible. Governments should only regulate after they've justified that all other actions do not accomplish the desired goals, and the regulation is the only way to achieve them. So my concern is why rushing it to a law, when there are so many other options.

Regarding your comments about the dollar, it's a very complex situation:
1. El Salvador had its own currency up to 2001, when the economy was dollarized, a policy imposed by the president who controlled the congress. The decision was announced 1 month before its implementation, the law rushed through the approval process, and people left to their own devices to adjust to the rapid change. I kid you not, the law was approved after a congressman shot a police office while drunk, and his party offered to support dollarization in exchange of the majority party not withdrawing immunity from the congressman. There was also some blatant lying in the process: the law said that both the national currency and the dollar would remain in circulation, while in reality all banks were forced to substract the local money from the economy until only dollars remained in circulation. So we have some strong deja vu's going on. And now we're a country with 3 legal tenders.
2. The dollar was considered as a bedrock for stability but it has become an experimental currency itself, considering that Quantitative Easing initiated by the Fed is one of the largest monetary policy experiments in history. It actually provides some explanation about why the increased money supply has not lead to inflation (up until very recently).
3. I don't see Bitcoin becoming a real alternative to the dollar until its volatility decreases and isn't so sensitive to Elon Musk's trolling. The main benefit of Bitcoin  or other cryptos as a hedge against US$ inflation comes from a country's (or private citizens/companys) ability to create reserves in crypto, and belief that its limited supply will serve as a long-term reserve of value against the dollar's inflationary policies. This strategy is becoming more popular among governments and banks. There's no easy mechanism, however, to do that in El Salvador. With a dollarized economy, our only reserves are the liquidity reserves constituted by a fraction of the deposits in the banking system (around 30% of all deposits). These can't be converted to Bitcoin b/c of its price volatility, and b/c this reserve is the cornerstone that shores up our whole financial system. Plus, our international lenders would never give us any money if we would do something as crazy as that. So the government can't really use it to escape the dollar, unless many things happen before and some serious macroeconomic engineering is put into place.

Again, I'm not against the currency, only against the law. And I'm only scratching the surface here, the law is so short and superficial that economists, bankers, investment funds, business owners and regular citizens have millions of questions that our childish President won't care to answer, because it requires more ability than tweeting memes and appearing cool in front of the crypto community.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 12, 2021, 10:17:19 PM
Thank you for taking the time to learn about the experiment in El Salvador and for sharing your thoughts.

I'm invested in crypto for a lot of reasons so it's good to learn!

Quote
Actually, I'm not against Bitcoin per se, just 100% against making it MANDATORY for all businesses to accept the currency. I think most of the benefits of Bitcoin (hedge against inflation, potential for transactions, etc.) could have been reaped privately by piloting its use in the country and investing government resources to push for education and penetration of the technology, while avoiding most of the social costs and risks of making it a legal tender and forcing 'all economic agents' to understand the technology, invest in a wallet, figure out how to keep count of bitcoins received, setting up a trust with public funds to guarantee convertibility, etc.

There's also the technical hurdle of how to make Bitcoin actually function as a day-to-day payment system. The core network is slow and expensive to use. At this precise moment the transaction fee is about four USD which relative to normal network fees is actually pretty good. But to make payments for day-to-day purchases? Unacceptable. I know there are various proposals for layer 2 solutions to work on top of it, with Lightning being the most popular, but none of them have really gained traction even after years of working on them.

The crypto community is very excited about having El Salvador as a use case to test ideas and provide some real world urgency for them to be whipped into usable shape. But it feels a bit flippant relative to the real human costs that might be incurred along the way.

Quote
I've worked in the economic analysis of regulations and the basic tenet is that regulation is the last option to be considered b/c it's usually the most costly and irreversible. Governments should only regulate after they've justified that all other actions do not accomplish the desired goals, and the regulation is the only way to achieve them. So my concern is why rushing it to a law, when there are so many other options.

Agreed..... and why indeed......

Quote
Regarding your comments about the dollar, it's a very complex situation:
1. El Salvador had its own currency up to 2001, when the economy was dollarized, a policy imposed by the president who controlled the congress. The decision was announced 1 month before its implementation, the law rushed through the approval process, and people left to their own devices to adjust to the rapid change. I kid you not, the law was approved after a congressman shot a police office while drunk, and his party offered to support dollarization in exchange of the majority party not withdrawing immunity from the congressman. There was also some blatant lying in the process: the law said that both the national currency and the dollar would remain in circulation, while in reality all banks were forced to substract the local money from the economy until only dollars remained in circulation. So we have some strong deja vu's going on. And now we're a country with 3 legal tenders.

The more things change the more things stay the same!

Quote
2. The dollar was considered as a bedrock for stability but it has become an experimental currency itself, considering that Quantitative Easing initiated by the Fed is one of the largest monetary policy experiments in history. It actually provides some explanation about why the increased money supply has not lead to inflation (up until very recently).

So when it comes to how the US dollar is doomed, you are already far more initiated than I!

Quote
3. I don't see Bitcoin becoming a real alternative to the dollar until its volatility decreases and isn't so sensitive to Elon Musk's trolling.

Agreed. And, as noted above, it's not ready yet on a technical level.

Quote
The main benefit of Bitcoin  or other cryptos as a hedge against US$ inflation comes from a country's (or private citizens/companys) ability to create reserves in crypto, and belief that its limited supply will serve as a long-term reserve of value against the dollar's inflationary policies. This strategy is becoming more popular among governments and banks. There's no easy mechanism, however, to do that in El Salvador. With a dollarized economy, our only reserves are the liquidity reserves constituted by a fraction of the deposits in the banking system (around 30% of all deposits).

Seems like you're talking about fractional reserve banking?

Quote
These can't be converted to Bitcoin b/c of its price volatility, and b/c this reserve is the cornerstone that shores up our whole financial system. Plus, our international lenders would never give us any money if we would do something as crazy as that. So the government can't really use it to escape the dollar, unless many things happen before and some serious macroeconomic engineering is put into place.

I also think that the various powerful world governments/monetary organizations feel threatened by crypto and will try to undermine the success of this initiative. In that sense, I feel like diving so boldly into adopting BTC might be brave. But maybe a lot of rich people invested in crypto already told Bukele they will invest and give him protection. Or maybe he just doesn't know what's coming.

Quote
Again, I'm not against the currency, only against the law. And I'm only scratching the surface here, the law is so short and superficial that economists, bankers, investment funds, business owners and regular citizens have millions of questions that our childish President won't care to answer, because it requires more ability than tweeting memes and appearing cool in front of the crypto community.

LASER EYES!!!
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on June 13, 2021, 05:49:27 AM
A friend of mine who is a financial analyst with Fidelity told me crypto-currencies are going to "change the world as we know it" in the same way the Internet did.  We had a long talk about it.  Probably 1/2 of what he said hit the wall about 20 feet above my head, but some of it made a lot of sense to me.  The comparison to the Internet is striking.  The internet is an unregulated communications platform that sort of democratized information.  Crypto is an unregulated and untaxed currency that is tied to no specific government or paper currency.  Crypto is in its dial-up phase of development.  He said he believes there will probably end up being several viable crypto currencies to choose from when it all shakes out, but there won't be anywhere near the number of global currencies that currently exist.  There will be a long period of very volatile "uptake" as more and more countries look at possibly adopting crypto as a national currency.  He said if the US ever does that it will reach "critical mass" and not long after that (by "not long" he meant in less than 50 years) traditional currency will begin to fade away. 


I'm not sure what to think but listening to him talk about this it seemed like he knew what he was talking about.  He's made some money trading in Bitcoin.  Paid off his mortgage and student debt with the profits he's taken from it.  That's over $500k according to him, and I have no reason to believe he was talking out of his ass.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: Cool Chris on June 13, 2021, 06:08:07 PM
Well this discussion certainly got serious... but I appreciate the insight from those who understand this more than I do.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: reneranucci on June 14, 2021, 08:17:40 AM
A friend of mine who is a financial analyst with Fidelity told me crypto-currencies are going to "change the world as we know it" in the same way the Internet did.  We had a long talk about it.  Probably 1/2 of what he said hit the wall about 20 feet above my head, but some of it made a lot of sense to me.  The comparison to the Internet is striking.  The internet is an unregulated communications platform that sort of democratized information.  Crypto is an unregulated and untaxed currency that is tied to no specific government or paper currency.  Crypto is in its dial-up phase of development.  He said he believes there will probably end up being several viable crypto currencies to choose from when it all shakes out, but there won't be anywhere near the number of global currencies that currently exist.  There will be a long period of very volatile "uptake" as more and more countries look at possibly adopting crypto as a national currency.  He said if the US ever does that it will reach "critical mass" and not long after that (by "not long" he meant in less than 50 years) traditional currency will begin to fade away. 


I'm not sure what to think but listening to him talk about this it seemed like he knew what he was talking about.  He's made some money trading in Bitcoin.  Paid off his mortgage and student debt with the profits he's taken from it.  That's over $500k according to him, and I have no reason to believe he was talking out of his ass.
Did he mention the words "freedom", "tyranny of the dollar", "HODL" or "lambo"? In that case, I would dismiss his opinion completely (just kidding :))

More seriously though, his opinion is probably well-informed. A couple of comments about what he said:
1. I see a more likely future where countries adopt some sort of cryptocurrency of their own making as legal tender, rather than any crypto "out there". Countries should be reluctant to ever give up one of the most important policy instruments they have, i.e. monetary policy. Even when that has happened (European Union, de-facto or de-jure dollarization in Ecuador, Panama and El Salvador), that control wasn't given to some decentralized community. If it wasn't already dollarized, El Salvador's move to crypto would be even more disastrous. Of course, this would offset the largest advantage of crypto, being completely independent from any centralized decision making.
2. Bitcoin has made a lot of people very wealthy but I'd expect a professional financial advisor to nuance his story about big returns with a statement of how much risk he took. Returns should always be compared to risk taken (measured by volatility), and the real measure of an efficient portfolio is the return per unit of risk taken. Even if he made a lot of money, he can't recommend Bitcoin as an investment strategy without talking about how risky it is or how it compares to other portfolios, at least for the short term. Bitcoin has outclassed any other asset in returns, but also in volatility.   
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: reneranucci on June 14, 2021, 08:21:16 AM
As an aside, I'm looking to invest a small amount in crypto  :lol I have $6,500 which is my "gambling" money invested in a portfolio of 10 stocks, picked more or less randomly, in which I have high hopes for the future. I have a long-term strategy so I shouldn't be looking at my portfolio until 5-10 years from now (of course, I check daily). I'd like to invest $1,000 in crypto but I haven't been able to convince my wife yet. I have an investment of $1,000 in Coinbase stock so at least I have some exposure to crypto markets in case it takes off in the long term.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: reneranucci on June 14, 2021, 02:16:46 PM
Does crypto fall under the jurisdiction of the SEC?


I'm pretty sure crypto is 100% unregulated in the USA
There's some sparse regulation going on, AFAIK:
- Most serious crypto exchange platforms will require their users to provide a photo ID before opening an account, and I think this is due to regulatory requirements.
- Crypto currencies are taxable assets considered as property by the IRS. When doing my tax return this year, the first question that popped up on the H&R Block platform was "Did you own any crypto currencies in 2020?"
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 14, 2021, 02:35:38 PM
(I am not a financial advisor and none of this is financial advice. This is all my opinion)

In terms of what to actually invest in, I think ETH is actually the most interesting long term. The value of Ethereum isn't just the currency but what can be done with the platform. Decentralized finance, contracts, and so on. I think Binance's chain has more volume, but ETH has more institutional interest. While I like CZ, the Ethereum devs seem to be a bit more innovative and have a better eye on where the future of crypto is going. If you look at the de-centralized exchanges like Uniswap and Sushiswap, they both run on the Ethereum platform. So if you own Ethereum you reap the rewards of both of their successes.

I can't imagine Bitcoin will ever go away but I can't imagine where it's going either. There are developers trying to build projects on top of it (Lightning and STX) and they might succeed. But is that as good a bet as ETH? I don't think so. A crypto portfolio without BTC is probably a huge mistake, but I don't think it can be your only coin and I don't think its future success is guaranteed. IMO it becomes the new gold. You want it to hold value, but you don't transact with it.

It's a bit of an alt coin but I think $LINK should also be part of a basic crypto portfolio. Chainlink is the most popular solution to the problem of, how do you get data from outside of a blockchain onto that blockchain. And there's no serious competition.

Did he mention the words "freedom", "tyranny of the dollar", "HODL" or "lambo"? In that case, I would dismiss his opinion completely (just kidding :))

lol

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More seriously though, his opinion is probably well-informed.

I agree

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1. I see a more likely future where countries adopt some sort of cryptocurrency of their own making as legal tender, rather than any crypto "out there". Countries should be reluctant to ever give up one of the most important policy instruments they have, i.e. monetary policy. Even when that has happened (European Union, de-facto or de-jure dollarization in Ecuador, Panama and El Salvador), that control wasn't given to some decentralized community. If it wasn't already dollarized, El Salvador's move to crypto would be even more disastrous. Of course, this would offset the largest advantage of crypto, being completely independent from any centralized decision making.

You can see this already with Miami creating its own city token.

I think though that government/bank issued coins are going to co-exist with crypto. Every attempt to ban crypto has only resulted in it being more widely used, and the manipulation of fiat money is actually entering popular consciousness. Soon everyone will be that guy on Youtube on 2003 who talked about how the fed was a scam and you should buy gold, except it will be crypto.

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2. Bitcoin has made a lot of people very wealthy but I'd expect a professional financial advisor to nuance his story about big returns with a statement of how much risk he took. Returns should always be compared to risk taken (measured by volatility), and the real measure of an efficient portfolio is the return per unit of risk taken. Even if he made a lot of money, he can't recommend Bitcoin as an investment strategy without talking about how risky it is or how it compares to other portfolios, at least for the short term. Bitcoin has outclassed any other asset in returns, but also in volatility.

It's hard to say. It's easy to look at what Crypto is now and say "oh of course it was inevitable." You can rightfully point out though that, for all its problems, the concept itself was never invalidated. When Mt. Gox (big exchange in the early-mid 10's) went under and its reserves were stolen, the lesson was that you need to make sure you own your own crypto, which reinforces the central conceit of decentralized currency.

One thing I definitely think is, short-term volatility to me isn't really a downside in investing. If you trade, volatility is how you make your money. If you're in it for the long term, then short-term swings shouldn't bother you. (seriously though I am not a financial advisor and if you need to withdraw your investments during hard times and you're in a down swing that's a bad time. And I own some index funds so it's not like I think stable investments don't matter)

I think the best way to look at it retrospectively is - Any big evolution or revolution is a risk. The Internet was clearly the future in the late 90's, but a lot of people got wiped by the dot com bubble. They picked the wrong companies, and it sucks. Where I think the mainstream committed a sinful error was looking at crypto as not even a legitimate investment vehicle because it was fake internet money, instead of even trying to understand the possibilities. Yes you still treat it as high risk (especially small cap coins), but there are legitimate returns to be had.

Does crypto fall under the jurisdiction of the SEC?


I'm pretty sure crypto is 100% unregulated in the USA
There's some sparse regulation going on, AFAIK:
- Most serious crypto exchange platforms will require their users to provide a photo ID before opening an account, and I think this is due to regulatory requirements.
- Crypto currencies are taxable assets considered as property by the IRS. When doing my tax return this year, the first question that popped up on the H&R Block platform was "Did you own any crypto currencies in 2020?"

Correct. The SEC also looks at tokens it judges as "securites". The Ripple and LBRY lawsuits are the most infamous. But, to give the SEC credit, they clamped down on ICO scams. I didn't follow crypto during this period, but my understanding is a lot of people got rugged by them.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 14, 2021, 02:42:11 PM
After saying I was going to buy and hold BTC, I sold it all off when it was around 40K today.  I'll buy back in when it drops to 30k next week  :lol I'm just tired of seeing it go between 30 and 40 each week.  Sell high, buy back low.  I guess I really need to "play the game" and not just be on the sidelines expecting it to rise which I very much expected and kind of still do expect.  I'm just not sure that it's going to go up in the near future.  It seems to have found it's sweet spot for now.

This also allowed me to consolidate my BTC between off coinbase and I'll buy back in on robinhood to avoid the fees. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on June 14, 2021, 06:29:17 PM
My understanding is that you don't actually own the crypto you buy on Robinhood. Everyone I know says to never use it to buy crypto.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 14, 2021, 06:39:44 PM
My understanding is that you don't actually own the crypto you buy on Robinhood. Everyone I know says to never use it to buy crypto.

I know, I'm not entirely sure if the fees for trading on coinbase make it worth it though, especially if I'm not just holding like I was for so long. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on June 15, 2021, 11:11:34 AM
My understanding is that you don't actually own the crypto you buy on Robinhood. Everyone I know says to never use it to buy crypto.

I know, I'm not entirely sure if the fees for trading on coinbase make it worth it though, especially if I'm not just holding like I was for so long. 
Do you know how Robinhood makes money off crypto sales? I know some other platforms essentially subtract the fees from the value of the coin, so it looks like you're not paying fees but you actually are getting less than you could for your money. Everyone is making money off of you somehow. You're using Coinbase Pro, right? Way lower fees than regular Coinbase.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 15, 2021, 11:17:45 AM
My understanding is that you don't actually own the crypto you buy on Robinhood. Everyone I know says to never use it to buy crypto.

I know, I'm not entirely sure if the fees for trading on coinbase make it worth it though, especially if I'm not just holding like I was for so long. 
Do you know how Robinhood makes money off crypto sales? I know some other platforms essentially subtract the fees from the value of the coin, so it looks like you're not paying fees but you actually are getting less than you could for your money. Everyone is making money off of you somehow. You're using Coinbase Pro, right? Way lower fees than regular Coinbase.

I was not using Pro and my understanding is that robinhood makes money off interest from your uninvested cash in your account.  I haven't read anything that says they make money off trading crypto directly.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 15, 2021, 05:40:50 PM
My understanding is that you don't actually own the crypto you buy on Robinhood.

Correct. You can't withdraw to your own Wallet.

Look what Robinhood did with GME stock. Do you trust them to hold onto your assets?
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 15, 2021, 05:56:28 PM
My understanding is that you don't actually own the crypto you buy on Robinhood.

Correct. You can't withdraw to your own Wallet.

Look what Robinhood did with GME stock. Do you trust them to hold onto your assets?

Yes, now that the GME stuff has passed I actually lean towards Robinhood protecting more than it hurt (retail traders, not the big boys). And as someone who sold my BTC, I have all that cash so I'm not entirely sure what the value of your wallet truly is.  I'm not saying there is no value, but is the value higher than the trading fees from other apps?  I paid a decent sum to sell my BTC in coinbaise.  I've got no issue with the fee for long term holds.  But if you want to buy the dips, I don't see the point in paying the fees.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 22, 2021, 12:10:42 PM
After saying I was going to buy and hold BTC, I sold it all off when it was around 40K today.  I'll buy back in when it drops to 30k next week  :lol

Well BTC dropped to 29k at one point today, I strongly considered putting my money that I pulled out last week back in, but I'm just very skeptical right now.  China is shutting down a lot of miners.  Seems like a lot of negativity atm around crypto and ETH is tanking.  I may just throw this extra cash into the ETFs I have that are consistent performers and stay out of crypto for a bit.  Someone is going to lose a lot of money and I don't want it to be me.  Also my car is having issues so that cash may come handy for fixing it so I'm definitely glad I pulled out last week.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on June 22, 2021, 02:59:16 PM
Slightly off topic but there is a series on Netflix called "Startup" and it's all about this girl from the 'hood who creates her own crypto-currency called "GenCoin" and it's really good.  There are 3 seasons and I just burned through the first full season (10 episodes @ 45 minutes each) this past weekend. 
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: lordxizor on June 23, 2021, 05:33:47 AM
I'm continuing to buy BTC despite it going down in value. I believe it will come back up at some point. Could be years before it pays off, but I'm going to stick with my plan of getting to 5% of my investments in crypto. My plan for now is 60% BTC, 30% ETC, and 10% a handful of other alts.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 23, 2021, 07:49:57 AM
I'm continuing to buy BTC despite it going down in value. I believe it will come back up at some point. Could be years before it pays off, but I'm going to stick with my plan of getting to 5% of my investments in crypto. My plan for now is 60% BTC, 30% ETC, and 10% a handful of other alts.

What I noticed is that I had actually gotten up to 10% of my portfolio as crypto when I told myself I wanted to keep it at 5%.  I'm still holding my ETH because my losses on it are so high that I don't want to bite the bullet and just let it ride out.  So selling the BTC made sense for me to keep me in line.  I'm not against buying back in, I'm just so skeptical and need to keep myself in line with the rules I'm putting in place for myself.
Title: Re: The Cryptocurrencies Thread
Post by: vtgrad on June 24, 2021, 12:08:16 PM
I'll echo what Lord said and suggest Coinbase Pro over Coinbase... the platform is much easier to deal with imo and the fees are lower in my experience (though they have increased).  I've been with Pro since it was GDAX and I have no complaints.

Personally, I'm letting my ETH ride as well, I think it may come back this year as well as BTC.  Look at all of the neg news that BTC (and ETH for that matter) has absorbed in the past week and stabilized above $30K.

I was thinking of letting go of some of my TSLA because I know the Q2 results might be painful because of BTCs dip, but I just can't let it go yet.  I'm still in the money with TSLA and NIO and my gut tells me not to bet against Musk.  Just look at what TSLA has forced Ford to do... Musk will push innovation across all brands I think.