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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: KevShmev on January 30, 2021, 09:17:26 PM
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Feels like it is time for a new thread, yes?
Here is another new song, ripped from the vinyl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxHXQfV7Mt4
Good tune.
Anyway, let's discuss the new album some more. :coolio
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I don't understand the purpose of this thread, there already is a Steven Wilson solo thread ???
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I can't stop listening to "12 Things I Forgot". Such an earworm. "Follower" is great too.
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I really like Fear Of A Blank Planet - but SW now has about 150 solo albums. If I liked Porcupine Tree - which SW solo album should I check out ?
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I don't understand the purpose of this thread, there already is a Steven Wilson solo thread ???
The other is well over 100 pages, and it feels like most of the time, a new thread gets started when a prior one gets to that many pages. And with the new album having just been released, it felt like a good time.
I can't stop listening to "12 Things I Forgot". Such an earworm. "Follower" is great too.
Yeah, those are two of my favorites so far, along with Eyewitness (still my favorite from the overall sessions), Man of the People and Move Like a Fever. Count of Unease seems pretty cool, too, and I suspect that is one that will keep getting better the more I listen. :tup :tup
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I really like Fear Of A Blank Planet - but SW now has about 150 solo albums. If I liked Porcupine Tree - which SW solo album should I check out ?
Actually, he only has 6 "real" solo albums. But yeah, he has 6000 other projects. I would seriously recommend just listening to those 6 albums chronologically. They're all great, yet very different from each other. But this way you can follow SW's musical changes and development.
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I've listened to The Future Bites a few times now, and I do indeed enjoy it. My only real issue with the album is that I feel like Steven relied too much on guest vocalists; for instance, although I like EMINENT SLEAZE, it barely feels like a Steven Wilson song because it feels like he hardly sings on it. I find that the ones I enjoy more (12 THINGS I FORGOT, COUNT OF UNEASE, FOLLOWER) are sung entirely by Steven. While PERSONAL SHOPPER doesn't feature much vocals from Steven, it does still feel like a Steven Wilson song (though that's mainly because the lyrics have that Fear of a Blank Planet/The Incident feel to it). Overall, there aren't any songs I dislike. KING GHOST and MAN OF THE PEOPLE are just kind of "there", but they're certainly not bad.
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After a bunch of listens already this weekend (it is short, and therefore easy to listen to quickly), I can safely that Eminent Sleaze and Personal Shopper are easily my two least favorites. I don't dislike either, but neither stands out at all. Getting a legend like Elton John to participate in one of his songs was a major get; it's just too bad he didn't use him in a much better song.
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What's the deal of having the song titles in all capitals? It was the same with Pain Of Salvation's Panther album last year. Is it a trend or something?
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What's the deal of having the song titles in all capitals? It was the same with Pain Of Salvation's Panther album last year. Is it a trend or something?
Yes. It's mostly a stylization thing, but I'm also guessing artists do it because it makes the songs stick out more when they appear in a playlist amongst others.
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Here's a demo of "Anyone But Me", from the cassette included in the box set. It's not bad but I definitely prefer Count of Unease as the closer. He mentioned releasing ABM as a single sometime this year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07v9qg8C--s&feature=youtu.be
I'm snowed in today so I've been listening to the bonus tracks from the Deluxe Edition and trying to put together an alternate version of the album.
So far I think I prefer the extended versions of some of the songs. The extended version of Unself in particular is fantastic and I'm baffled as to why he chose to shorten it for the album. Personal Shopper however, I just don't think is interesting enough to warrant a 19-minute remix.
I think some of the bonus tracks like Move Like a Fever, I am Cliché, and Eyewitness make more sense in the album than 12 Things I Forgot. Which is far from a bad song, but it kinda sticks out like a sore thumb on the album.
This is my idea for an alternate version of the album, clocking in at 57:30. I might add in Tastemaker and Anyone But Me when those get released.
1. Unself (Extended)
2. Self
3. Move Like a Fever (From the B-Sides collection, not the Bonus Disc. They're two different versions.)
4. King Ghost (Extended)
5. Eminent Sleaze (Extended)
6. I Am Cliché
7. Man of the People
8. Eyewitness
9. Personal Shopper (Regular version)
10. Count of Unease
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I can't begin to even think of an alternate running order for the proper album yet, but I saw that the songs from the limited edition bonus disc are up on YT now, and I have been checking those out. Ha Bloody Ha is an instant favorite and definitely one of my favorites already from the entire TFB box set. Anybody But Me sounds good as well.
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Replying to Kev's reply on my comment in the closed thread:
Kev said: "I am reading that a lot, that this is a pop album, and I don't hear it. How exactly is this a pop album?"
It is pop in the same sense that Gotye is pop.
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Replying to Kev's reply on my comment in the closed thread:
Kev said: "I am reading that a lot, that this is a pop album, and I don't hear it. How exactly is this a pop album?"
It is pop in the same sense that Gotye is pop.
I am unfamiliar with Gotye, so I have no idea what that means. :lol
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The voice-overs in the song "Personal Shopper" remind me of the voice-overs in the Captital Cities tune "Farrah Fawcett Hair."
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Liked 3 or 4 tracks - 12 Things I Forgot, Man of the People, Follower and Count of Unease.
The rest just isn't for me at all. Interestingly, Ha Bloody Ha as a bonus track was up there with the rest of the album, great track.
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Steven has released a new video for SELF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UroVey4fJ_g
I can't decide if it's awesome or creepy :lol
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Here is another new song, ripped from the vinyl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxHXQfV7Mt4
Good tune.
Anyway, let's discuss the new album some more. :coolio
I don't love the new album but I don't mind it either. This time the music just doesn't really resonate with me, but this one track though.. it's magic.
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Here is another new song, ripped from the vinyl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxHXQfV7Mt4
Good tune.
Anyway, let's discuss the new album some more. :coolio
I don't love the new album but I don't mind it either. This time the music just doesn't really resonate with me, but this one track though.. it's magic.
That might be because it's a demo from 2006, recorded during the Fear of a Blank Planet sessions.
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Heh, looks like SW is about to get some notoriety for his comments about the guitar, specifically about Eddie Van Halen, which Wolfgang then tweeted about.
https://www.guitarworld.com/news/steven-wilson-explains-why-he-was-never-a-fan-of-eddie-van-halen
https://twitter.com/wolfvanhalen/status/1356139355295780865?s=21
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Interesting that Wolfgang even knows about Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree and has been a fan for a while. I think that's the surprising part for me. Nevertheless, this is probably going to go down the typical expected path of calm muted reaction everyone usually does with this kind of thing.
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Steven has released a new video for SELF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UroVey4fJ_g
I can't decide if it's awesome or creepy :lol
It's definitely both. Really cool video and upped my appreciation for the song.
Not wholly sold on the album yet. I dig the style, but so far I feel it needs stronger hooks. 12 Things I Forgot and Personal Shopper are cool, and that video made me like Self more as well. The rest of the album is kind of blurring together at the moment. But I'll give it more listens.
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Not that I'm surprised by this, but I got the album Saturday, and that day and the next I sat down and listened to the 5.1 mix. Even though I knew many of the songs already from online I was 5x happier with them when listening in that context, and overall I think it gave me a much better appreciation of the album than I would otherwise have.
That said, while I can see myself enjoying this album, I can't foresee it topping the last three, which range from great to top 25 of all time.
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Ranking his Solo Albums
1. The Raven That Refused to Sing
2. To the Bone
3. Hand.Cannot.Erase
4. The Future Bites
5. Grace for Drowning
6. Insurgentes
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It's obviously very early on but yeah, while I don't think this album is bad, it's probably his weakest by a pretty considerable margin.
1: Hand. Cannot. Erase.
2: To The Bone (underrated)
3: Grace For Drowning
4: The Raven That Refused To Sing (overrated, might actually put this below Insurgentes some days of the week)
5: Insurgentes
6: The Future Bites
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Insurgentes not at the top is always wrong though
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1. Insurgentes
2. Grace
3. Raven
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4. HCE
5. TTB
Too early to rate the new one because I only spun it once. I think it's more interesting than the last 2 but going a different direction in itself doesn't make something better. It's refreshing for him to do something different though. :)
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Not the biggest fan of the new one. Yes, it has a lot of great textures and tones and new sounds for Wilson. But the songwriter veers on the "too-preachy" side for many of the songs (which has always been a weakness of Wilson's) and the lack of progressive elements just takes away the element of excitement for me.
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Does anyone else feel like Steven Wilson is just frustrated after all these years, and wants to crack the mainstream, but won't just come out and say it!
I think it's fairly well documented that he has voiced his opinions on bands that have been huge sellers. To me there always feels like there is a bitter edge there. Or a sly dig at big selling bands. I think he's just too cool to come out and say "yes, I'd like to sell as many albums, and reach as many people as Coldplay or Radiohead. I am equally, if not more talented than them and the public need to realise this."
To me, at this point, every interview I read about the sound of the new album and the direction he's moved as an artist, just feels fake. It just sounds like he's trying to justify the style of music he is playing, in a credible way that is also like a social commentary. Like, just fess up and say, "This style is what's popular and I want to be more popular so that's why the album sounds this way".
I'd have more respect for him then I think. The whole promotion of the new album has just turned me off and left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. I might be off base but it's just how the whole thing comes across to me and I can't shake it. Anyone else?
All that said, the new album is alright and I'll give it a few more listens.
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Is it messed up for me to say I can't stop laughing when I hear Personal Shopper? I think I have an idea of what Steven was trying to do regarding the lyrics, but I can't stop laughing, especially during the Elton John parts.
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Is it messed up for me to say I can't stop laughing when I hear Personal Shopper? I think I have an idea of what Steven was trying to do regarding the lyrics, but I can't stop laughing, especially during the Elton John parts.
What's funny about that Elton John part is it really is pretty much his Shopping List. :lol
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Steven has released a new video for SELF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UroVey4fJ_g
I can't decide if it's awesome or creepy :lol
Love it. It's a little weird, but that is part of the appeal. I have had the hook from that song (the harmonies by the ladies) stuck in my head all day now. :lol :lol
Heh, looks like SW is about to get some notoriety for his comments about the guitar, specifically about Eddie Van Halen, which Wolfgang then tweeted about.
https://www.guitarworld.com/news/steven-wilson-explains-why-he-was-never-a-fan-of-eddie-van-halen
https://twitter.com/wolfvanhalen/status/1356139355295780865?s=21
Total non-story. I saw that interview the other day and Wilson was pretty tactful about it. I am sure some VH fans will read about it and lose their shit, but welcome to 2021 on the internet and social media.
Not that I'm surprised by this, but I got the album Saturday, and that day and the next I sat down and listened to the 5.1 mix. Even though I knew many of the songs already from online I was 5x happier with them when listening in that context, and overall I think it gave me a much better appreciation of the album than I would otherwise have.
That said, while I can see myself enjoying this album, I can't foresee it topping the last three, which range from great to top 25 of all time.
Throw in Grace for Drowning there, making it the last four, and I agree. I like the new album, but it's definitely a drop-off in quality from all of his solo albums from the 10's.
I did like seeing your implied appreciation for To the Bone, though! I gave that a few fresh spins last week and it is holding up really well. Great from start to finish, and easily one of the most diverse albums he's ever done.
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Does anyone else feel like Steven Wilson is just frustrated after all these years, and wants to crack the mainstream, but won't just come out and say it!
I think it's fairly well documented that he has voiced his opinions on bands that have been huge sellers. To me there always feels like there is a bitter edge there. Or a sly dig at big selling bands. I think he's just too cool to come out and say "yes, I'd like to sell as many albums, and reach as many people as Coldplay or Radiohead. I am equally, if not more talented than them and the public need to realise this."
To me, at this point, every interview I read about the sound of the new album and the direction he's moved as an artist, just feels fake. It just sounds like he's trying to justify the style of music he is playing, in a credible way that is also like a social commentary. Like, just fess up and say, "This style is what's popular and I want to be more popular so that's why the album sounds this way".
I'd have more respect for him then I think. The whole promotion of the new album has just turned me off and left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. I might be off base but it's just how the whole thing comes across to me and I can't shake it. Anyone else?
All that said, the new album is alright and I'll give it a few more listens.
I do get the sense that he is a bit frustrated that he hasn't had a bit more mainstream success, but I don't think he is writing albums with the intention of trying to appeal to the masses. That wouldn't even work in 2021 the way it might have in the 80's simply because good luck guessing what the masses like or want in this day and age, and I think he knows that. I always thought some of his music would have worked really well in film or TV shows. Put one or two of his songs in a popular film or TV show and it could do wonders, but I am not counting on that any time soon.
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Wolf wasn’t offended by Steven’s comments, but he did admit that he was bummed out by the comments since he holds him in high regard.
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Does anyone else feel like Steven Wilson is just frustrated after all these years, and wants to crack the mainstream, but won't just come out and say it!
I think it's fairly well documented that he has voiced his opinions on bands that have been huge sellers. To me there always feels like there is a bitter edge there. Or a sly dig at big selling bands. I think he's just too cool to come out and say "yes, I'd like to sell as many albums, and reach as many people as Coldplay or Radiohead. I am equally, if not more talented than them and the public need to realise this."
To me, at this point, every interview I read about the sound of the new album and the direction he's moved as an artist, just feels fake. It just sounds like he's trying to justify the style of music he is playing, in a credible way that is also like a social commentary. Like, just fess up and say, "This style is what's popular and I want to be more popular so that's why the album sounds this way".
I'd have more respect for him then I think. The whole promotion of the new album has just turned me off and left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. I might be off base but it's just how the whole thing comes across to me and I can't shake it. Anyone else?
All that said, the new album is alright and I'll give it a few more listens.
Man, such a good point.
Yeah, I've noticed a slight resentment against big artists that have really made it on the biggest leagues but at the same time he shows a lot of appreciation for artists that did something really cool and big in the pop scene (such as Peter Gabriel, who was said to be a big inspiration during the To The Bone process).
I definitely sense that he would love a crack at the mainstream but, as you say, he's too cool to actually come forward and say so. It's easier to be this counter-culture artist that basically does something entirely different musically-speaking (the exact opposite of artists like Neal Morse) each time around and that has this constant position of daring and defiance against what he thinks is not good enough in the industry. You got artists like John Mayer that are basically made and constructed from the guitar, but if asked about him Wilson would probably go all like "he's not doing something that hasn't been done in the last 30 years", so I find very wise to take his opinions with a grain of salt. He's one of my favorite songwriters and he always will be, but I know when to draw a line (GET IT ITS LIKE IN THE INCIDENT OLO)
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Wolf wasn’t offended by Steven’s comments, but he did admit that he was bummed out by the comments since he holds him in high regard.
Given that Eddie was his dad and he is a proud son, I totally get Wolfie's reaction, but I have to think that most SW fans out there, and there are a lot of us despite what a bunch of online nitwit VH fans think, know by now that Wilson is generally not a fan of rock music like VH and guitar players like Eddie, so his comments shouldn't surprise anyone. I think he could have kept his answer a lot shorter and sweeter, but, for better or worse, that is not the Steven Wilson way. He is overly blunt most of the time and that is a big reason why he is one of the most fascinating musicians out there to listen to nowadays.
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Does anyone else feel like Steven Wilson is just frustrated after all these years, and wants to crack the mainstream, but won't just come out and say it!
I definitely sense that he would love a crack at the mainstream but, as you say, he's too cool to actually come forward and say so.
He's actually said that on numerous occasions including in this latest cycle.
Regarding EVH, I was never a fan, either. While I was shocked by his death, it didn't really affect me (unlike, say, Neil Peart where I properly teared up listening to a couple of Rush tracks in the car the day after his death was announced). I don't really know anything about Wolfgang but I have to say I was very impressed by his measured response.
By extension, I never got Van Halen despite liking many of their contemporaries. They always had a far bigger following in the States than in the UK so that may have factored into it.
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That might be because it's a demo from 2006, recorded during the Fear of a Blank Planet sessions.
That should explain why I like the song. :lol
Does anyone else feel like Steven Wilson is just frustrated after all these years, and wants to crack the mainstream, but won't just come out and say it!
I think it's fairly well documented that he has voiced his opinions on bands that have been huge sellers. To me there always feels like there is a bitter edge there. Or a sly dig at big selling bands. I think he's just too cool to come out and say "yes, I'd like to sell as many albums, and reach as many people as Coldplay or Radiohead. I am equally, if not more talented than them and the public need to realise this."
To me, at this point, every interview I read about the sound of the new album and the direction he's moved as an artist, just feels fake. It just sounds like he's trying to justify the style of music he is playing, in a credible way that is also like a social commentary. Like, just fess up and say, "This style is what's popular and I want to be more popular so that's why the album sounds this way".
I'd have more respect for him then I think. The whole promotion of the new album has just turned me off and left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. I might be off base but it's just how the whole thing comes across to me and I can't shake it. Anyone else?
All that said, the new album is alright and I'll give it a few more listens.
I totally agree on this. Something just feels a little bit off this time for me, and it's definitely NOT the fact that he chose to go in a more electronic or pop direction. I know he loves electronic music and I love it as well. Got no problems with good pop music either.
But the way he dives into electronics here just doesn't feel that exciting to me. Sure, King Ghost is well done, I like the synth patterns and together with the excellent video it's a worthy addition to the SW discography. But I was actually hoping he'd go way more experimental with electronics, a bit more like in the album closer Count of Unease. That's actually the only song on the entire record that really made me feel something.. I think.
I don't know, it does feel like an older guy trying to be contemporary, and that's never a good thing in my mind. Follower has this annoying Taylor Swift-like chorus, and everything about the album just SCREAMS (all caps..) that it's all so 'slick' and edgy. That might be, and I cannot help but to be reminded of Prince, Bowie or Gabriel in a lot of these songs. Only the songs aren't as good and SW just doesn't have that sort of appeal IMO.
By stripping away so much, all that remains is a pop record that comes across as very cold and calculated (which was probably intended, given the subject matter). Still, that results in me not getting any warm feelings for it. To The Bone was already a bit lighter than what came before in his solo discography, but to me it still had SW's magic all over it.. I guess I'm also missing some epicness from the music on The Future Bites. Where are the climaxes? I love climaxes.
Sorry to be so negative, and SW doesn't owe anyone anything, he can do what he wants and the music is still much better than a LOT of stuff out there. Just trying to make sense of my feelings on the record and sharing them.
Oh and WTF @ him saying that 'there's nothing left to say with the electric guitar anymore'. What a load of BS. Apparently, he himself has nothing to say with electric guitar anymore.. speak for yourself SW. A statement like this might have been appropriate if this album was amazing, but it's certainly no Kid A. AFAIC, there's more real emotion in Refuge's guitar solo than on most places on this record.
I'll rank as well:
1. Insurgentes
2. Hand. Cannot. Erase.
3. The Raven That Refused to Sing
4. To The Bone
5. Grace for Drowning
6. The Future Bites
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New album is enjoyable, but it will probably disappear from my rotation once I go through my listening cycle. I do appreciate Personal Shopper and Eminent Sleaze more than I did when I first heard them and Follower is a cool track too. I'm undecided on Count Of Unease but probably need a few more listens to form a final opinion.
My ranking thus far:
1. Insurgentes
2. Hand.Cannot.Erase
3. To The Bone
4. The Future Bites
5. Grace For Drowning
1001. The Raven
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1) Hand. Cannot. Erase.
2) The Future Bites
3) To the Bone
4) Raven
5) Grace for Drowning
933948) Insurgentes
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Does anyone else feel like Steven Wilson is just frustrated after all these years, and wants to crack the mainstream, but won't just come out and say it!
I think it's fairly well documented that he has voiced his opinions on bands that have been huge sellers. To me there always feels like there is a bitter edge there. Or a sly dig at big selling bands. I think he's just too cool to come out and say "yes, I'd like to sell as many albums, and reach as many people as Coldplay or Radiohead. I am equally, if not more talented than them and the public need to realise this."
To me, at this point, every interview I read about the sound of the new album and the direction he's moved as an artist, just feels fake. It just sounds like he's trying to justify the style of music he is playing, in a credible way that is also like a social commentary. Like, just fess up and say, "This style is what's popular and I want to be more popular so that's why the album sounds this way".
I'd have more respect for him then I think. The whole promotion of the new album has just turned me off and left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. I might be off base but it's just how the whole thing comes across to me and I can't shake it. Anyone else?
All that said, the new album is alright and I'll give it a few more listens.
Man, such a good point.
Yeah, I've noticed a slight resentment against big artists that have really made it on the biggest leagues but at the same time he shows a lot of appreciation for artists that did something really cool and big in the pop scene (such as Peter Gabriel, who was said to be a big inspiration during the To The Bone process).
I definitely sense that he would love a crack at the mainstream but, as you say, he's too cool to actually come forward and say so. It's easier to be this counter-culture artist that basically does something entirely different musically-speaking (the exact opposite of artists like Neal Morse) each time around and that has this constant position of daring and defiance against what he thinks is not good enough in the industry. You got artists like John Mayer that are basically made and constructed from the guitar, but if asked about him Wilson would probably go all like "he's not doing something that hasn't been done in the last 30 years", so I find very wise to take his opinions with a grain of salt. He's one of my favorite songwriters and he always will be, but I know when to draw a line (GET IT ITS LIKE IN THE INCIDENT OLO)
I don't know man, electronic music has been around since the 70's. Prog bands in the 80's were already burying guitars in the mix in favour of beats and synth sounds. He may view himself as doing something entirely different, but to me The Future Bites sounds to older electronic music what many of the bands he criticises are to 70's prog/rock. He has his own sound and production choices, yes, but so do artists like Ayreon and yes, even Transatlantic. For example, I like Permanating and yeah it does sound different in the realm of prog rock artists and Wilson's own discography, but in the end that ain't an original sounding song at all.
The fresher feeling of many of Wilson's works, for me, come from the way he blended the prog/ambient/electronic/jazz/etc. sounds. And I do appreciate that he tries to go in different directions within his own works.
And all of this is fine, it has nothing to do with quality for me.
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I don't know how this album will sit with me in the long run, but as usual I will add some tracks from it to my "favourite SW songs" playlist on Spotify (12 Things I Forgot, Man Of The People, Follower).
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I can't rank the albums yet with TFB. Needs to sit a few months or even a year or so to figure out where it will ultimately place in the SW solo discography.
Like Transatlantic, I give all his albums a min of 9.5/10.
I don't think anything will ever outrank Raven for me, that album for me is an even 10/10, I love that album so much.HCE is very close behind followed by To The Bone. Insurgentes and Grace for Drowning are tied for me and unlike the others, I feel like his first two albums are just a collection of songs on the album. From Raven onwards I feel a theme and connection to the tracks in the context of an album but for those first two I just don't view or think of them as such. Time will tell where TFB lands, I'm guessing probably at the bottom or just below To The Bone.
1, Raven
2, Hand Cannot Erase
3, To The Bone
4/5, Insurgentes/GFD
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ehhh, I'm here to counter all the Insurgentes hate(*)
1. Insurgentes
2. Grace for Drowning
3. To the Bone
4. Hand. Cannot. Erase.
5. The Raven That Refused to Sing
??? The Future Bites
(Only got it in the mail today, will listen tomorrow)
* BIG EDIT: Nevermind though, I missed the bunch of posts that do have Insurgentes at the top :heart
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1, Raven
2, Hand Cannot Erase
3, To The Bone
4/5, Insurgentes/GFD
This is my ranking too, although I definitely have GFD as distinct 5th place below Insurgentes.
I don't know about TFB yet, but I think it'll be at the lower end.
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But the way he dives into electronics here just doesn't feel that exciting to me. Sure, King Ghost is well done, I like the synth patterns and together with the excellent video it's a worthy addition to the SW discography. But I was actually hoping he'd go way more experimental with electronics, a bit more like in the album closer Count of Unease. That's actually the only song on the entire record that really made me feel something.. I think.
I could imagine that this will be a thing he does on his next album! I don't think his following output will be "even poppier", so I'm extremely excited what he'll do next (in the same way I think Haken won't get even heavier and I am equally excited for their next step).
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Well, I've heard all of this now and I've deleted it from my phone, this just isn't what I listen to for music. I know I won't listen to it again, just like Insurgentes and Grace for Drowning, I wish him luck with it.
As for his solo catalog ratings, I don't really listen to Insurgentes or Grace For Drowning and I am 100% positive that I won't listen to the new one. So, I'd rate the albums this way:
My cuppa:
1. The Raven That Refused to Sing
2. Hand.Cannot.Erase
3. To The Bone
Not my cuppa:
Grace For Drowning/Insurgentes/The Future Bites
His Eddie Van Halen comments are 100% on brand for Steven Wilson. All he had to say is "I wasn't a big fan so his passing wasn't something that impacted me personally. I recognize his contributions to the industry and wish his family all the best in dealing with such a tragic loss."
Dude suffers from diarrhea of the mouth
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I don't know how this album will sit with me in the long run, but as usual I will add some tracks from it to my "favourite SW songs" playlist on Spotify (12 Things I Forgot, Man Of The People, Follower).
Ugh, this is not directed at you per se, but I hate this new tendency towards playlists. Hell, a friend of mine, who is as big a Wilson/PT fan as I am, listened to The Future Bites once and his initial reaction was, "Not sure if any of these songs will fit into my Wilson playlist." :facepalm: :facepalm: Call me old fashioned, but I still love listening to full albums, and in the case of the artists in my top tier who are still active (SW, Neal Morse, Flower Kings, Dream Theater, Devin Townsend), their new albums are always getting many listens because they have more than enough equity built up that they will never get the "one and done" treatment so to speak.
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I don't know how this album will sit with me in the long run, but as usual I will add some tracks from it to my "favourite SW songs" playlist on Spotify (12 Things I Forgot, Man Of The People, Follower).
Ugh, this is not directed at you per se, but I hate this new tendency towards playlists.
This is not directed at you per se, but this makes you sound so old.
I just finished my first listen-through of the album. I didn't listen to any of the singles pre-release.
This is definitely a pop album by Steven Wilson. I like good pop music, and this is good pop music, but my way-too-early prediction is that this will be my least favorite SW album thus far.
Oh, and Insurgentes is awesome.
And SW's VH comment was unwarranted, and he's a bit of a dick for saying it (once again).
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Steven has released a new video for SELF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UroVey4fJ_g
I can't decide if it's awesome or creepy :lol
Love it. It's a little weird, but that is part of the appeal. I have had the hook from that song (the harmonies by the ladies) stuck in my head all day now. :lol :lol
Heh, looks like SW is about to get some notoriety for his comments about the guitar, specifically about Eddie Van Halen, which Wolfgang then tweeted about.
https://www.guitarworld.com/news/steven-wilson-explains-why-he-was-never-a-fan-of-eddie-van-halen
https://twitter.com/wolfvanhalen/status/1356139355295780865?s=21
Total non-story. I saw that interview the other day and Wilson was pretty tactful about it. I am sure some VH fans will read about it and lose their shit, but welcome to 2021 on the internet and social media.
Not that I'm surprised by this, but I got the album Saturday, and that day and the next I sat down and listened to the 5.1 mix. Even though I knew many of the songs already from online I was 5x happier with them when listening in that context, and overall I think it gave me a much better appreciation of the album than I would otherwise have.
That said, while I can see myself enjoying this album, I can't foresee it topping the last three, which range from great to top 25 of all time.
Throw in Grace for Drowning there, making it the last four, and I agree. I like the new album, but it's definitely a drop-off in quality from all of his solo albums from the 10's.
I did like seeing your implied appreciation for To the Bone, though! I gave that a few fresh spins last week and it is holding up really well. Great from start to finish, and easily one of the most diverse albums he's ever done.
While I really like Grace, I don't hold it in as high regard as the other three. I will need a lot more time with TFB to give a final opinion on it, and could put it above or below GFD when all is said and done. I can't see it closing the gap on the other three.
And To. The. Bones. started reasonably strong from me and only grew over time. Just from repeated listens and then especially after seeing the tour a couple of times and gaining even more of an appreciation for some of the songs.
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While I really like Grace, I don't hold it in as high regard as the other three. I will need a lot more time with TFB to give a final opinion on it, and could put it above or below GFD when all is said and done. I can't see it closing the gap on the other three.
And To. The. Bones. started reasonably strong from me and only grew over time. Just from repeated listens and then especially after seeing the tour a couple of times and gaining even more of an appreciation for some of the songs.
Man, I wish I would have seen him on that last tour. All of those songs from To the Bone and Hand. Cannot. Erase., plus stuff like Arriving Somewhere But Not Here, The Raven and a few other PT classics. *salivates*
Ah well, I did get to see him in 2013 when he played, among others, all of the songs from The Raven at one point in the show...and Raider II. That was insane.
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While I really like Grace, I don't hold it in as high regard as the other three. I will need a lot more time with TFB to give a final opinion on it, and could put it above or below GFD when all is said and done. I can't see it closing the gap on the other three.
And To. The. Bones. started reasonably strong from me and only grew over time. Just from repeated listens and then especially after seeing the tour a couple of times and gaining even more of an appreciation for some of the songs.
Man, I wish I would have seen him on that last tour. All of those songs from To the Bone and Hand. Cannot. Erase., plus stuff like Arriving Somewhere But Not Here, The Raven and a few other PT classics. *salivates*
Ah well, I did get to see him in 2013 when he played, among others, all of the songs from The Raven at one point in the show...and Raider II. That was insane.
Similarly, I was supposed to see SW solo for the first time on the Raven tour, and ended up missing the show due to my grandfather passing the evening we were supposed to go to the show. While I don't regret my decision to stay with my family at his house that night, I can't help but look back at the number of Raven tracks I've not had a chance to see since and definitely hate having missed that show.
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Similarly, I was supposed to see SW solo for the first time on the Raven tour, and ended up missing the show due to my grandfather passing the evening we were supposed to go to the show. While I don't regret my decision to stay with my family at his house that night, I can't help but look back at the number of Raven tracks I've not had a chance to see since and definitely hate having missed that show.
I would say you definitely made the right decision; I would've done the same.
Wilson is so unpredictable with the set lists, but while I think the title track from The Raven will likely remain a live mainstay as it has been since that tour, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the rest don't see the light of day again any time soon, especially since Govan and Minnemann are not part of his touring band anymore. I can't imagine Drive Home getting played and anyone else trying to tackle that guitar solo.
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Idk, they did play The Watchmaker during the H.C.E. tour without Govan. Incidentally, the solo in that song was the one time in that entire setlist where it was impossible not to notice Govan's absence. :lol
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ehhh, I'm here to counter all the Insurgentes hate(*)
...
I think it is a mistake to assume that those of us who don't rank Insurgentes are hating on it. I love it, but I like his next four solo albums much more than it, as well as probably eight of PT's studio albums. If I had to rank the 15 PT and SW solo albums (leaving out The Future Bites since it is too new to rank), Insurgentes would likely be 13th, and not because it isn't great, but because I just love almost everything else more. That is a testament to the staggering consistency over the years by Wilson.
Idk, they did play The Watchmaker during the H.C.E. tour without Govan. Incidentally, the solo in that song was the one time in that entire setlist where it was impossible not to notice Govan's absence. :lol
I have to admit that I was happy to see Wilson take back over, for the most part, as his own lead guitarist on To the Bone, but I was happy to have gotten The Raven and HCE with Govan, whose playing was out of this world on those records.
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My rank:
1. Insurgentes
2. Grace for Drowning
3. The Raven That Refused To Sing (And Other Stories)
4. Hand.Cannot. Erase.
5. To the Bone
Yes, it's ranked.
I love the first four. Don't like TTB.
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I don't know how this album will sit with me in the long run, but as usual I will add some tracks from it to my "favourite SW songs" playlist on Spotify (12 Things I Forgot, Man Of The People, Follower).
Ugh, this is not directed at you per se, but I hate this new tendency towards playlists. Hell, a friend of mine, who is as big a Wilson/PT fan as I am, listened to The Future Bites once and his initial reaction was, "Not sure if any of these songs will fit into my Wilson playlist." :facepalm: :facepalm: Call me old fashioned, but I still love listening to full albums, and in the case of the artists in my top tier who are still active (SW, Neal Morse, Flower Kings, Dream Theater, Devin Townsend), their new albums are always getting many listens because they have more than enough equity built up that they will never get the "one and done" treatment so to speak.
I totally get what you're saying, Kev. I've just never been an "I only listen to the whole album as a full experience" kind of guy. I do this with every artist.
Hell, I even put the songs on shuffle for NO continuity/sense at all :lol (Subdivisions followed by Far Cry, to then jump back to Bastille Day etc).
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Taking The Future Bites out of the equation, I feel like Insurgentes was the one album he really made 100% for himself and with no thought for the fanbase or any outside factors. Possibly because it came out while PT was still active, and he felt like he could really go 'all out there' with a solo album and explore different things. It's also very possible this is just something I get from the album but after PT dissolved and the solo career became the main focus, I feel like every album has had a small portion of "i gotta do this because its expected of me". Yeah he went through some different styles and the solo albums all have differences, but I noticed it on HCE with the 2 long songs feeling a bit 'out of place' compared to the rest and it was especially noticeable on To The Bone which really tried to take his music in a different direction, yet you still had the 9 minute Detonation towards the end which felt almost shoved in to add some progressive rock flavor on an album that was otherwise more focused on other genres.
His solo career has been pretty good overall though, even if I think HCE is overrated, The Future Bites is pretty solid and I'm enjoying it but I also don't know if the highs are there for me to rank it THAT high. That's my main issue with his last 3 (TFB, TTB, HCE) is that across all of them, I think Routine is the only song I would say is a top tier SW song.
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I don't know how this album will sit with me in the long run, but as usual I will add some tracks from it to my "favourite SW songs" playlist on Spotify (12 Things I Forgot, Man Of The People, Follower).
Ugh, this is not directed at you per se, but I hate this new tendency towards playlists. Hell, a friend of mine, who is as big a Wilson/PT fan as I am, listened to The Future Bites once and his initial reaction was, "Not sure if any of these songs will fit into my Wilson playlist." :facepalm: :facepalm: Call me old fashioned, but I still love listening to full albums, and in the case of the artists in my top tier who are still active (SW, Neal Morse, Flower Kings, Dream Theater, Devin Townsend), their new albums are always getting many listens because they have more than enough equity built up that they will never get the "one and done" treatment so to speak.
Don't worry, I'm 27 and I ONLY listen to full albums and hate playlists (except for the 100 song long "Summer 80s" playlist for drinking vacation with my buddies).
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Had my first listen this morning. A couple of first impressions, I guess:
- Steven Wilson definitely took inspiration from OK Computer; sound-wise and stylistically I think both albums are very similar.
- 12 Things I Forgot might be one of the best tracks he's written in years
- Am I the only one who hears a slight nod to Nowhere Now in the lyrics to Follower? 'Too much everything' can't really be a coincidence, so it's probably intentional
- There's a lot of downtempo stuff. That's a shame, I would have liked a little more upbeat SW stuff
- This is not a bad album, but I can see why SW's hardcore prog-fans will be annoyed.
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I don't know how this album will sit with me in the long run, but as usual I will add some tracks from it to my "favourite SW songs" playlist on Spotify (12 Things I Forgot, Man Of The People, Follower).
Ugh, this is not directed at you per se, but I hate this new tendency towards playlists. Hell, a friend of mine, who is as big a Wilson/PT fan as I am, listened to The Future Bites once and his initial reaction was, "Not sure if any of these songs will fit into my Wilson playlist." :facepalm: :facepalm: Call me old fashioned, but I still love listening to full albums, and in the case of the artists in my top tier who are still active (SW, Neal Morse, Flower Kings, Dream Theater, Devin Townsend), their new albums are always getting many listens because they have more than enough equity built up that they will never get the "one and done" treatment so to speak.
Don't worry, I'm 27 and I ONLY listen to full albums and hate playlists (except for the 100 song long "Summer 80s" playlist for drinking vacation with my buddies).
I'm almost entirely an album listener too, but I don't normally bother listening to an album unless I like it enough (or enough of it). So one thing I've started to do more these days is downloading or making playlists of songs I like (and that work well enough on their own) that are from albums I'm not as keen on. For example, I own 9 Iron Maiden albums either on CD or digitally, but then I also have a "Best of the Rest" playlist with ~80 mins worth of songs I really dig from other albums that I almost certainly wouldn't put on.
I can see myself doing this with some of SW's stuff. I literally never listen to Grace for Drowning and haven't done pretty much since around the time it came out, but I know I love some of the songs on it (although I'll need to listen again to remind myself of which ones they are :lol). So I might well make myself a playlist including songs from GFD plus Self, 12 Things and Personal Shopper, to go alongside the other albums all of which I like more and listen to.
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Digitally I am a playlist guy. A lot of my favourite songs are surrounded by songs I don't care for that much, after all. And making well flowing playlists is a thing I enjoy. The albums I like a lot I will buy on vinyl and then listen to it as a whole. The format kind of makes you do that. Not that I don't listen to entire albums digitally, I do that as well, but I have a lot of playlists that match my taste. And I enjoy exploring playlists on youtube and spotify to discover new music.
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After giving it a few more listens, I really really like Man of the People and Count of Unease. 12 Things is also good.
I agree that the rest of the album feels a little cold. It's good music with some good moments (the middle of Personal Shopper with Elton John is great, as is the toetappin' 2nd half of Follower), I just feel it's lacking that Wilson charisma that To The Bone, while accessible like this album, had plenty of.
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You're right about the 2nd half of Follower, very toe tapping. I think Personal Shopper might be my favorite track so far. Listening to the high res stereo mix on the Blu-ray is such a joy. Getting more and more familiar with the album now.
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1. The Raven That Refused to Sing
2. Hand. Cannot. Erase.
3. Insurgentes
4. To The Bone
5. Grace for Drowning
6. The Future Bites
To be fair I've only heard about 1/2 of The Future Bites - but that's enough to tell it's no where near the top of his discography for me.
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After a few more spins of Future Bites I'm feeling:
1. Insurgentes
2. Grace For Drowning
3. The Raven That Refused to Sing
4. The Future Bites
5. Hand Cannot Erase
6. To the Bone
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Not really feeling the new album outside of the last three tracks. This feels like his first misstep in his solo career, in my opinion anyway. I'm hoping this gets better with more listens.
Current rankings:
Raven
Hand
To the Bone
Insurgentes
Grace
Future
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To explain the playlist thing a little better, I am not totally opposed to them. I have a super duper 80's playlist, probably because I am not an album guy when it comes to Wham, Bananarama, A Flock of Seagulls and Debbie Gibson :lol. and I like to shuffle with favorite artists all the time, but I still love the idea of getting a new album by one of my favorites and living with it for a few weeks rather than immediately grabbing the early favorites and moving them to a playlist and never really getting back to the album. Not that I am saying anyone here does that or that I was accusing anyone of that, just explaining my thought process a little better. We all have our own ways of getting into new music. :)
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Wolfgang and Wilson have made up on Twitter. Don't why it's still surprising to me that Wolfgang is a fan of Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson's solo albums.
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Yeah, I saw SW's apology. That was nice of him to do considering it was a non-story, but a nice touch to reach out to Wolfie.
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I think that goes with what I said. Steven has a hard time bot saying what's on his mind even though there is no I'll intent he can't see what it could do to another person.
I've seen this in my life too many times.
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I like Count of Unease, but I am starting to wish he had left Anyone But Me in place as the album closer. Would have been different to get an upbeat, happy-sounding song as the album closer, but I guess he thought about it and wanted to go with the old reliable slower tune at the end.
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Yeah, Wilson’s comments on EVH were not great to be honest. It’s fine that he gave an honest answer, too many would have just trotted out some bullshit platitudes, but he went maybe a little far. All he had to say was that Eddie was a phenomenal musician and innovator but that he didn’t own any of their albums as he’s not a huge fan of that kind of virtuoso guitar playing or something like that. When you start calling people’s music vile (particularly your fellow musicians) is when you really should shut your mouth. All music is subjective and we all like different things but to call a piece of art vile, just because it’s not your cup of tea is going way too far. I know he didn’t call VH vile, just other shredders who have followed in his wake but it’s not something you should say about a fellow musician.
Still not loving the new album, I think it may end up with Grace For Drowning as a SW album that I don’t enjoy. I’m in the minority it seems in that I quite like Personal Shopper but there’s not much else on here for me. 12 Things I Forgot is fine if a little SW by numbers but I’m not really feeling anything else. It’s not unlistenable or anything, I just don’t see it being something I go back to repeatedly in the years to come. Hopefully Transatlantic’s new one will fare better.
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I really like Fear Of A Blank Planet - but SW now has about 150 solo albums. If I liked Porcupine Tree - which SW solo album should I check out ?
I thought I’d replied to this earlier but I can’t see it anywhere.
I think if you are a Porcupine Tree fan looking to ease your way into SW solo, Hand Cannot Erase is probably your best bet. It’s the closest thing he’s done to PT in my opinion and could pretty easily fit in to their catalog.
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Yeah, Wilson’s comments on EVH were not great to be honest. It’s fine that he gave an honest answer, too many would have just trotted out some bullshit platitudes, but he went maybe a little far. All he had to say was that Eddie was a phenomenal musician and innovator but that he didn’t own any of their albums as he’s not a huge fan of that kind of virtuoso guitar playing or something like that. When you start calling people’s music vile (particularly your fellow musicians) is when you really should shut your mouth. All music is subjective and we all like different things but to call a piece of art vile, just because it’s not your cup of tea is going way too far. I know he didn’t call VH vile, just other shredders who have followed in his wake but it’s not something you should say about a fellow musician.
Still not loving the new album, I think it may end up with Grace For Drowning as a SW album that I don’t enjoy. I’m in the minority it seems in that I quite like Personal Shopper but there’s not much else on here for me. 12 Things I Forgot is fine if a little SW by numbers but I’m not really feeling anything else. It’s not unlistenable or anything, I just don’t see it being something I go back to repeatedly in the years to come. Hopefully Transatlantic’s new one will fare better.
Yeah, Vile is a harsh word choice to use there. I get what he's saying though, and it didn't seem like it was meant as anything vile in how he said it. And as we all know, Steven Wilson just doesn't like Shredder music.
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Listened to TFB today. Mostly in the background.
I don't love it. I don't hate it.
It'll take a while to sink in. TTB just recently clicked, so It's going to be a while.
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I saw Elton John promoting Steven's album on his Facebook (he's featured on Personal Shopper), so that was pretty cool.
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Listened to TFB today. Mostly in the background.
I don't love it. I don't hate it.
It'll take a while to sink in. TTB just recently clicked, so It's going to be a while.
It’s really great background music tbh. I like the soundscape a lot, but the lyrics are tough (always are for me with SW). I mean I listen to SELF and just feel sorry for the guy. Hope he enjoys the ride.
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I do like the album more than I expected. It is indeed a nice album to put on in the background.
My only criticism is probably that I think his falsetto kinda sounds mediocre and some parts lean heavy into it. But that has applied to songs of the past as well.
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Yeah, I think he has started overdoing it with the falsetto. I remember him saying a few years back that he had become more confident that it sounded ok after years of not liking his falsetto. I think it can be effective if used sparingly but don’t want whole songs in that style like he has started doing on the last 2 albums.
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I've given TFB a few listens so far and am pleasantly surprised given my expectations after hearing Personal Shopper. Not the direction I'd have his music go if it was up to me but I'm always supportive of a musician following their North Star, regardless of what it means for my personal enjoyment. And given the direction he's gone I'm liking it more than I thought I would.
SW solo album rankings:
1) HCE- My favorite album from the entirety of the 2010s
2) TTB- A very good mashup of his rock and pop sensibilities
3) TFB
4) Raven- Pretty much only ranked because of the beautiful title track
5/6) Insurgentes and GFD- My ears have no use for these
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Since I brought up the EVH/Wolfgang controversy, just noting that Wilson tweeted out an apology to Wolfgang (though I always wince at the “unintentionally offended” type of apologies):
Dear @WolfVanHalen, apologies, no disrespect was meant to your father, an extraordinary musician. I personally never owned any @VanHalen records and didn’t ever get into the style of playing, but he was clearly an incredible innovator.
So when asked about his passing I couldn’t honestly say I was affected deeply by it, at least not in the way that my heroes Bowie or Prince’s passing had affected me.
This statement was given in honest humility. Forgive me for any offence unintentionally given, and I offer my deepest condolences. SW
https://twitter.com/stevenwilsonhq/status/1357078067114557443?s=21
If nothing else, it’s kind of cool and random that Wolfgang is a PT fan. Maybe they’ll make up and end up collaborating or something.
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As someone who hasn't really clicked with the guy - I've tried, but most everything I've heard is just... bland and recycled to me - his comments are a constant source of entertainment. Almost everything he rails against, and claims to be above, I see in his music. I don't post this to piss on anyone's parade - I'm a listen and let listen kind of guy when it comes to music - I'm just presenting a sort of alternate view to point out how subjective his comments really are, no matter how certain he is of them.
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Somehow the new album has emerged as my favorite of his at the moment. I don’t think it’s brilliant or groundbreaking or anything but it’s thoroughly enjoyable to me and I appreciate it’s shorter length.
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Yeah came here to post this...
SW was *asked* in an interview what he thought of Eddie - he replied truthfully that he isn't a fan of the shredding style of guitar and wasn't a fan of Van Halen in general
- but that he was obviously a gifted musician and it's sad that he's gone.
It's not like SW tweeted : "Never saw the appeal with EVH - not my style of music - not a fan "... out of nowhere.
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Yeah came here to post this...
SW was *asked* in an interview what he thought of Eddie - he replied truthfully that he isn't a fan of the shredding style of guitar and wasn't a fan of Van Halen in general
- but that he was obviously a gifted musician and it's sad that he's gone.
It's not like SW tweeted : "Never saw the appeal with EVH - not my style of music - not a fan "... out of nowhere.
AND he shit all over a whole style of guitar playing. That was what was unnecessary. He could have communicated that it wasn't his cup of tea without being a bastard about it. But he apparently doesn't have it in him to do that.
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I don't think there was necessarily anything wrong with what SW said but it was the way he said it. I saw in another interview he was asked about Blackfield and his response was that he hasn't even listened to the latest one - which he still appears on a couple of songs. Personally I think it seems a bit shitty to be so openly negative about someone who recently passed (no matter if you dislike) and it also seems pretty shitty to not have listened to your friend's latest album which came out 2 months ago when you used to be part of that band. I like the artist Steven Wilson but as a person he seems very self centered and his whole "i'm above everything" attitude can definitely get a bit draining over time. It's a shame that these tendencies have gotten worse with age and not better.
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His attitude bites
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I don't think there was necessarily anything wrong with what SW said but it was the way he said it. I saw in another interview he was asked about Blackfield and his response was that he hasn't even listened to the latest one - which he still appears on a couple of songs. Personally I think it seems a bit shitty to be so openly negative about someone who recently passed (no matter if you dislike) and it also seems pretty shitty to not have listened to your friend's latest album which came out 2 months ago when you used to be part of that band. I like the artist Steven Wilson but as a person he seems very self centered and his whole "i'm above everything" attitude can definitely get a bit draining over time. It's a shame that these tendencies have gotten worse with age and not better.
Yeah, he's the only musician I follow whom I would not want to meet if I had a chance. Love most of his music, for sure, but come on.
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it's funny because I didn't even know all this happened. (and honestly, I never even thought SW would like anything Ed did.) I mostly do like The Future Bites though.
Concerning being egocentric, I think every artist is to some degree.
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Yeah came here to post this...
SW was *asked* in an interview what he thought of Eddie - he replied truthfully that he isn't a fan of the shredding style of guitar and wasn't a fan of Van Halen in general
- but that he was obviously a gifted musician and it's sad that he's gone.
It's not like SW tweeted : "Never saw the appeal with EVH - not my style of music - not a fan "... out of nowhere.
This. I honestly don't understand why this is such a big problem. Could he have phrased this better? Maybe. But the reaction is way too big for such a little statement. So he doesn't like EVH's music and his playing and he doesn't like shredding, so what.
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I don't think there was necessarily anything wrong with what SW said but it was the way he said it. I saw in another interview he was asked about Blackfield and his response was that he hasn't even listened to the latest one - which he still appears on a couple of songs. Personally I think it seems a bit shitty to be so openly negative about someone who recently passed (no matter if you dislike) and it also seems pretty shitty to not have listened to your friend's latest album which came out 2 months ago when you used to be part of that band. I like the artist Steven Wilson but as a person he seems very self centered and his whole "i'm above everything" attitude can definitely get a bit draining over time. It's a shame that these tendencies have gotten worse with age and not better.
Yeah, he's the only musician I follow whom I would not want to meet if I had a chance. Love most of his music, for sure, but come on.
Well, his VIP package for To the Bone tour was to gain early access to the venue, get some items (VIP laminated pass, a pick, a signed/personalized CD of a recorded gig from Raven tour which is actually pretty damn cool, probably something else but I don't remember) and see "the band perform three songs that won't be a part of the regular show". One of the songs was Sectarian (an instrumental), the second one was Trains (full band) and the third one was I don't remember what but it was piano and guitar (or drums? or bass?) only. Steven explained that he had to preserve his voice for the actual show, being this late in the tour.
I loved the experience, but it's not like meeting him in person was even an option.
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Yeah came here to post this...
SW was *asked* in an interview what he thought of Eddie - he replied truthfully that he isn't a fan of the shredding style of guitar and wasn't a fan of Van Halen in general
- but that he was obviously a gifted musician and it's sad that he's gone.
It's not like SW tweeted : "Never saw the appeal with EVH - not my style of music - not a fan "... out of nowhere.
This. I honestly don't understand why this is such a big problem. Could he have phrased this better? Maybe. But the reaction is way too big for such a little statement. So he doesn't like EVH's music and his playing and he doesn't like shredding, so what.
I think a lot of the negative reaction comes from blabbermouths headline PLUS a very huge love that many metal fans have for EVH. Mix those two up and you're going to get shat on. Regardless, he could have worded things more politely, but we know he's not into that.
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As someone who hasn't really clicked with the guy - I've tried, but most everything I've heard is just... bland and recycled to me - his comments are a constant source of entertainment. Almost everything he rails against, and claims to be above, I see in his music. I don't post this to piss on anyone's parade - I'm a listen and let listen kind of guy when it comes to music - I'm just presenting a sort of alternate view to point out how subjective his comments really are, no matter how certain he is of them.
It pains me to agree with Stadler, but I agree. Listening to this album relating to all of his comments on his take on pop music, what he has done here is nothing new if you listen to someone like Lorde or Billie Ellish (nothing wrong with those artists, that part could be me talking my mouth off, but I need to get some point of reference here). I liked To The Bone and songs like Permanating and enjoyed listening to them. The Future Bites rarely had that sense of enjoyment that makes me think, "I want to listen to that again." Now, if Steven wants to go more pop, I want him to adapt more of a JPop-style out of nowhere. It sounds fun if handled correctly.
His attitude bites
His. Attitude. Bites.
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His comments can definitely be amusing especially those times when it comes off as hypocritical. Like him completely trashing Flower Kings/Transatlantic for being 'regressive' and being the death of progressive rock because of the focus on paying homage to the 70s sound, and then making Grace For Drowning & Raven himself is just hilarious.
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Steven Wilson says what Steven Wilson wants to say and probably also what happens to 'make sense' in line with the new record. Who is even surprised that he has some out-there stuff to say? You don't have to believe everything he says, and neither is it any wonder (to me at least) that he's self-centered and a little weird. It makes you wonder; what if Steven Wilson the song-writing would actually team up with someone who's a better singer and more of a performer? He might actually be more successful that way. That said; I don't think Steven Wilson is doing a bad job at all. This solo career has certainly given him a wider audience and his output is getting quite diverse.
Him saying he doesn't like shredding doesn't surprise me at all, since he never incorporated anything like that in his music, and when he almost did by employing Guthrie Govan, he picked a guy that could play anything SW wanted him to play.
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Yeah came here to post this...
SW was *asked* in an interview what he thought of Eddie - he replied truthfully that he isn't a fan of the shredding style of guitar and wasn't a fan of Van Halen in general
- but that he was obviously a gifted musician and it's sad that he's gone.
It's not like SW tweeted : "Never saw the appeal with EVH - not my style of music - not a fan "... out of nowhere.
AND he shit all over a whole style of guitar playing. That was what was unnecessary. He could have communicated that it wasn't his cup of tea without being a bastard about it. But he apparently doesn't have it in him to do that.
Why does that matter to you. It doesn't to me. I don't care at all how Steven Wilson decides to tell us how he feels about that style of music. That's his opinion.
Would you rather him sugercoat it because you think How he says it is offensive. To whom?....
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Yeah came here to post this...
SW was *asked* in an interview what he thought of Eddie - he replied truthfully that he isn't a fan of the shredding style of guitar and wasn't a fan of Van Halen in general
- but that he was obviously a gifted musician and it's sad that he's gone.
It's not like SW tweeted : "Never saw the appeal with EVH - not my style of music - not a fan "... out of nowhere.
AND he shit all over a whole style of guitar playing. That was what was unnecessary. He could have communicated that it wasn't his cup of tea without being a bastard about it. But he apparently doesn't have it in him to do that.
Why does that matter to you. It doesn't to me. I don't care at all how Steven Wilson decides to tell us how he feels about that style of music. That's his opinion.
Would you rather him sugercoat it because you think How he says it is offensive. To whom?....
Pretty sure most normal humans are able to say "I wasn't that much of a listener but it's a shame he passed" without taking the opportunity to throw shade at the person who just passed. I mean I don't necessarily care but I can see why people would.
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Yeah came here to post this...
SW was *asked* in an interview what he thought of Eddie - he replied truthfully that he isn't a fan of the shredding style of guitar and wasn't a fan of Van Halen in general
- but that he was obviously a gifted musician and it's sad that he's gone.
It's not like SW tweeted : "Never saw the appeal with EVH - not my style of music - not a fan "... out of nowhere.
AND he shit all over a whole style of guitar playing. That was what was unnecessary. He could have communicated that it wasn't his cup of tea without being a bastard about it. But he apparently doesn't have it in him to do that.
Why does that matter to you. It doesn't to me. I don't care at all how Steven Wilson decides to tell us how he feels about that style of music. That's his opinion.
Would you rather him sugercoat it because you think How he says it is offensive. To whom?....
Pretty sure most normal humans are able to say "I wasn't that much of a listener but it's a shame he passed" without taking the opportunity to throw shade at the person who just passed. I mean I don't necessarily care but I can see why people would.
But he wasn't throwing shade at him. He was asked what he thought of him. It's like asking someone whom likes Ice cream but doesn't like cake, what he thinks about this chocolate cake.
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Yeah came here to post this...
SW was *asked* in an interview what he thought of Eddie - he replied truthfully that he isn't a fan of the shredding style of guitar and wasn't a fan of Van Halen in general
- but that he was obviously a gifted musician and it's sad that he's gone.
It's not like SW tweeted : "Never saw the appeal with EVH - not my style of music - not a fan "... out of nowhere.
AND he shit all over a whole style of guitar playing. That was what was unnecessary. He could have communicated that it wasn't his cup of tea without being a bastard about it. But he apparently doesn't have it in him to do that.
Why does that matter to you. It doesn't to me. I don't care at all how Steven Wilson decides to tell us how he feels about that style of music. That's his opinion.
Would you rather him sugercoat it because you think How he says it is offensive. To whom?....
Pretty sure most normal humans are able to say "I wasn't that much of a listener but it's a shame he passed" without taking the opportunity to throw shade at the person who just passed. I mean I don't necessarily care but I can see why people would.
But he wasn't throwing shade at him. He was asked what he thought of him. It's like asking someone whom likes Ice cream but doesn't like cake, what he thinks about this chocolate cake.
I mean the use of the word "vile" seemed unnecessary right? Even if you dislike something. :p
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Hard to compare opinions on food vs opinions on someone who was beloved and recently passed away. No one is saying his opinion is wrong, it's the way he words it.
Some of this reminds me of Sons of Apollo's start, by being so negative towards other musicians. It's not a good look IMO. Artists shouldn't be like that towards each other IMO, at least not publicly.
Now all we need is a GVF, SW, and Wolfie VH tour together.
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I'd have to watch the interview again, but I don't think he called Eddie's playing vile; he called the trend of shredders that he inspired vile. Semantics, but it's like if someone called all of the bands that Nirvana influenced horse crap; you aren't call Nirvana themselves horse crap. And Wilson did say, I believe, that he knows that Eddie was much more than that (a shredder). Think of hair metal too that was so big in the 80's. VH is rarely themselves called hair metal, but I think it's a given that most of the bands were influenced by VH.
Wilson still would have been better served keeping his answer short and sweet, but he rarely gives short answers. Maybe he will start now. :lol :lol
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I'd have to watch the interview again, but I don't think he called Eddie's playing vile; he called the trend of shredders that he inspired vile. Semantics, but it's like if someone called all of the bands that Nirvana influenced horse crap; you aren't call Nirvana themselves horse crap. And Wilson did say, I believe, that he knows that Eddie was much more than that (a shredder). Think of hair metal too that was so big in the 80's. VH is rarely themselves called hair metal, but I think it's a given that most of the bands were influenced by VH.
Wilson still would have been better served keeping his answer short and sweet, but he rarely gives short answers. Maybe he will start now. :lol :lol
I didn’t watch the video, but he probably comes across worse in print too. On his podcast he can be really opinionated and critics about other artists, even ones he says he loves, but there’s an element of humor there and his personality comes across a little better.
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I honestly don't care at all about what Steven Wilson has or hasn't said, as long as it's not stuff like racism or conspiracy theory bullshit. Frankly, I can relate quite a bit with what he says as well, so there's that too. EVH's death didn't affect me personally at all, because I was not emotionally invested in his music or in him. And that being said, I can't really think of any person that I have never interacted with that would impact me personally when they die. That whole concept is alien to me, but maybe I'm too cold there then, or maybe that will grow when I get older as well.
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Yeah came here to post this...
SW was *asked* in an interview what he thought of Eddie - he replied truthfully that he isn't a fan of the shredding style of guitar and wasn't a fan of Van Halen in general
- but that he was obviously a gifted musician and it's sad that he's gone.
It's not like SW tweeted : "Never saw the appeal with EVH - not my style of music - not a fan "... out of nowhere.
AND he shit all over a whole style of guitar playing. That was what was unnecessary. He could have communicated that it wasn't his cup of tea without being a bastard about it. But he apparently doesn't have it in him to do that.
Why does that matter to you. It doesn't to me. I don't care at all how Steven Wilson decides to tell us how he feels about that style of music. That's his opinion.
Would you rather him sugercoat it because you think How he says it is offensive. To whom?....
Pretty sure most normal humans are able to say "I wasn't that much of a listener but it's a shame he passed" without taking the opportunity to throw shade at the person who just passed. I mean I don't necessarily care but I can see why people would.
But he wasn't throwing shade at him.
I'm guessing English maybe isn't your native language? Because what Wilson said about EVH is pretty much the definition of "throwing shade" and it was absolutely unnecessary.
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I'd have to watch the interview again, but I don't think he called Eddie's playing vile; he called the trend of shredders that he inspired vile. Semantics, but it's like if someone called all of the bands that Nirvana influenced horse crap; you aren't call Nirvana themselves horse crap. And Wilson did say, I believe, that he knows that Eddie was much more than that (a shredder). Think of hair metal too that was so big in the 80's. VH is rarely themselves called hair metal, but I think it's a given that most of the bands were influenced by VH.
Wilson still would have been better served keeping his answer short and sweet, but he rarely gives short answers. Maybe he will start now. :lol :lol
Exactly. Eddie in this case is the Chocolate cake, and Shredders in general are Cakes in general. While Steven prefers Ice Cream and at a party would deny wanting cake. In this case, he finds cake vile, but still recognizes that the chocolate cake is delicious.
And I don't expect Wilson to change who he is because people can't accept him for being who he is.
It just find it a bit annoying, when people start questioning a person's character, when that person is discussing his opinion that was ASKED from him.
It's not like he is preaching that music is vile and no one is allowed to listen to it, and demanding it to be stricken from the airwaves. Like how some people here can view Rap/Hip-Hop or Country as vile. Even, worship music.
It's all word choices and here Steven Wilson just chose a word that he felt best describes his view of Guitar Shredders.
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But that's NOT what's happening here. He said things that were demonstrably fucking rude and tactless. if you wanna be a Steven Wilson apologist that's your call, but it's kind of silly
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But that's NOT what's happening here. He said things that were demonstrably fucking rude and tactless. if you wanna be a Steven Wilson apologist that's your call, but it's kind of silly
I read that interview and did not get that at all from what Steven said about Eddie.
But if that's how he feels about Shredders then that's how he feels. I am not getting upset because it may come across as harsh either. It's his view, and he feels strongly against it. That is fine. I have no problem with that. I know music is so vast that not everyone will enjoy everything, some people get famous for a style that they "made" themselves, but it's more the music they create reflects their identity of whom they are, and it resonates with a lot of people.
Some people just present their view of life harshly.
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It's not the first time SW comes out swinging hard out of nowhere either. There was that time he started shitting on Greta van Fleet quite aggressively out of nowhere, and the aforementioned time he bashed Flower Kings/Neal Morse/Transatlantic for being regressive and destroying prog for only having old ideas.
Either he's an asshole who just has strong opinions and says it like it is and can't act nice about it OR he is the biggest troll ever and he comes out with these strong quotes because it gets people talking and any attention for someone like him (who isn't Rolling Stones or Metallica big) is good attention.
Personally I don't really care THAT much. I listen to him for his music and his opinions can be quite amusing at times. Definitely seems to have a bit of an Omega complex or whatever but I think many musicians are probably like that, SW is just more outspoken. :p
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But that's NOT what's happening here. He said things that were demonstrably fucking rude and tactless. if you wanna be a Steven Wilson apologist that's your call, but it's kind of silly
I read that interview and did not get that at all from what Steven said about Eddie.
But if that's how he feels about Shredders then that's how he feels. I am not getting upset because it may come across as harsh either. It's his view, and he feels strongly against it. That is fine. I have no problem with that. I know music is so vast that not everyone will enjoy everything, some people get famous for a style that they "made" themselves, but it's more the music they create reflects their identity of whom they are, and it resonates with a lot of people.
Some people just present their view of life harshly.
How is SW's reaction any different than people's here reaction to him? If you don't want anyone getting upset with SW, then follow your own advice and don't get upset with people here for simply stating how they feel.
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It just find it a bit annoying, when people start questioning a person's character, when that person is discussing his opinion that was ASKED from him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was asked his opinion on guitar shredders. He went out of his way to throw that in. That's why he's an asshole.
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But that's NOT what's happening here. He said things that were demonstrably fucking rude and tactless. if you wanna be a Steven Wilson apologist that's your call, but it's kind of silly
I read that interview and did not get that at all from what Steven said about Eddie.
But if that's how he feels about Shredders then that's how he feels. I am not getting upset because it may come across as harsh either. It's his view, and he feels strongly against it. That is fine. I have no problem with that. I know music is so vast that not everyone will enjoy everything, some people get famous for a style that they "made" themselves, but it's more the music they create reflects their identity of whom they are, and it resonates with a lot of people.
Some people just present their view of life harshly.
How is SW's reaction any different than people's here reaction to him? If you don't want anyone getting upset with SW, then follow your own advice and don't get upset with people here for simply stating how they feel.
I am not upset that people are upset at Steven Wilson.
I just find it interesting, how a simple opinion caused such a discussion like this, based on a character trait.
It just find it a bit annoying, when people start questioning a person's character, when that person is discussing his opinion that was ASKED from him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was asked his opinion on guitar shredders. He went out of his way to throw that in. That's why he's an asshole.
What he did is expand on why he doesn't enjoy Eddie Van Halen, which isn't just because He's Eddie Van Halen, but because he finds Guitar Shredders vile, regardless of who it is. I am sure he finds Yngwie really repulsive. And that's not even going into Michael Angelo Batio level of shred with his mirror guitar :lol. It would be interesting to hear his opinions on those guys. :biggrin:
Anyways....
I listened to The Future Bites and I like it.
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No one here is shocked that Steven Wilson is not a rabid fan of Van Halen or guitar shredders. If he’d said “It didn’t affect me personally as I was never really a big fan. He was obviously an incredible talent, an innovator and I’m sure there’s a whole generation of guitar shredders out there who were inspired by him. It’s just not the style of guitar playing that I gravitate to as you can probably tell from my music”. That would have been fine.
I was ok to a degree with some of what he said, thought it was maybe a little too much but nothing too awful but that word “vile” just made me wince. I know it wasn’t in direct reference to EVH but rather that he was to blame for this vile form of music. To me the word vile is way too strong of a word to use for a style of music that you don’t care for. Particularly when you are a musician yourself and these are your fellow artists.
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Just passing here to leave some good news: :heart :tup
https://whiplash.net/materias/news_734/328318-stevenwilson.html?fbclid=IwAR0B1uEg1MwnRtlpd9-k4yS0R5F02QHOwpR0w5vGZIm4SVzi-mk6MOpNEws
The site is in portuguese, but it has the original twitter's screeshots.
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As someone who hasn't really clicked with the guy - I've tried, but most everything I've heard is just... bland and recycled to me - his comments are a constant source of entertainment. Almost everything he rails against, and claims to be above, I see in his music. I don't post this to piss on anyone's parade - I'm a listen and let listen kind of guy when it comes to music - I'm just presenting a sort of alternate view to point out how subjective his comments really are, no matter how certain he is of them.
For this latest album in particular I agree to some degree (except for the word bland, it does have a SW sound and I overall like it). The Future Bites does nothing new and does not sound like the future. And all of that is fine, but when an artist is presenting it as something novel, while shitting on other artists that stick to their genre of choice, it does not make you look good in my opinion.
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What he did is expand on why he doesn't enjoy Eddie Van Halen, which isn't just because He's Eddie Van Halen, but because he finds Guitar Shredders vile, regardless of who it is. I am sure he finds Yngwie really repulsive. And that's not even going into Michael Angelo Batio level of shred with his mirror guitar :lol. It would be interesting to hear his opinions on those guys. :biggrin:
Anyways....
I listened to The Future Bites and I like it.
Extraordinarily vile
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I didn’t watch the video, but he probably comes across worse in print too. On his podcast he can be really opinionated and critics about other artists, even ones he says he loves, but there’s an element of humor there and his personality comes across a little better.
Agreed. I just re-watched that part of the interview, and he certainly comes off a lot better when you watch it rather than just reading the words in print, but it wouldn't be the internet without a little outrage, right? ;) And he and Wolfie made peace and all is good with them, so, to quote Tom Petty, it's time to move on... :biggrin: :biggrin:
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For what it's worth and if anyone cares, he did apologize to Wolfgang
Dear @WolfVanHalen, apologies, no disrespect was meant to your father, an extraordinary musician. I personally never owned any
@VanHalen records and didn’t ever get into the style of playing, but he was clearly an incredible innovator.
So when asked about his passing I couldn’t honestly say I was affected deeply by it, at least not in the way that my heroes Bowie or Prince’s passing had affected me.
This statement was given in honest humility. Forgive me for any offence unintentionally given, and I offer my deepest condolences. SW
And Wolfgang said 'sup
Incredibly kind of you to say, @StevenWilsonHQ. I meant no ill will in my previous tweets. As I said, the internet was exacerbating what you had said, as the internet tends to do. Still very kind of you. Be well, friend
(https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/270c.svg)
And in album music news, SW apparently had enough tracks to make a double album but decided to instead to make a really short album. I do love the demo that's on the cassette "Anyone but me" in the deluxe edition which was supposed to be the closer originally.. As much as I really like the track I think it doesn't fit the album flow.
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And in album music news, SW apparently had enough tracks to make a double album but decided to instead to make a really short album. I do love the demo that's on the cassette "Anyone but me" in the deluxe edition which was supposed to be the closer originally.. As much as I really like the track I think it doesn't fit the album flow.
You might be right. I prefer Anybody But Me to Count of Unease, but I like both. I will need to listen to the album with both as the last track and see what I think works better.
I do wish the longer version of Unself, which is still less than 3 minutes, had been the proper album opener.
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It's not the first time SW comes out swinging hard out of nowhere either. There was that time he started shitting on Greta van Fleet quite aggressively out of nowhere, and the aforementioned time he bashed Flower Kings/Neal Morse/Transatlantic for being regressive and destroying prog for only having old ideas.
Do you have a link for that? I have never heard about that statement!
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It's not the first time SW comes out swinging hard out of nowhere either. There was that time he started shitting on Greta van Fleet quite aggressively out of nowhere, and the aforementioned time he bashed Flower Kings/Neal Morse/Transatlantic for being regressive and destroying prog for only having old ideas.
Do you have a link for that? I have never heard about that statement!
I'm not sure what site had the original interview but I found a transcript of it on progarchives:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=88744
Also, he dissed Greta Van Fleet again which I'm sure won't go down with some of their fans :D
https://tonedeaf.thebrag.com/steve-wilson-greta-van-fleet/
This PR tour is probably doing pretty good for him, he's in the spotlight for sure.
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I love a couple of PT albums - but mainly for Gavin...
I saw SW on a guitar show on YouTube once and he was like " first of all i'm not a guitarist - i'm an artist and a writer ? "
Just seemed a bit snooty to me.
Yeah i'm an audiophile too and I love rock and hate rap and most pop. I can't stand Ed Sheeran - but If I was asked in an interview if I was a fan i'd just say " i'm not but i'm not a
fan of pop in general. It doesn't do anything for me. ". And leave it there. If only cause I wouldn't want to have to deal with the backlash.
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I love a couple of PT albums - but mainly for Gavin...
I saw SW on a guitar show on YouTube once and he was like " first of all i'm not a guitarist - i'm an artist and a writer ? "
Just seemed a bit snooty to me.
Yeah i'm an audiophile too and I love rock and hate rap and most pop. I can't stand Ed Sheeran - but If I was asked in an interview if I was a fan i'd just say " i'm not but i'm not a
fan of pop in general. It doesn't do anything for me. ". And leave it there. If only cause I wouldn't want to have to deal with the backlash.
But of course because we live in These Times™, because you stated you're not a fan of pop in general, you will have deeply deeply offended the identity of pop fans and attacked them personally. This is what has happened since we threw all of our eggs into the basket of culture. We define ourselves by which celebrities we identify with. We spend our lives fighting battles over social media for them, even though the celebrities themselves will never even notice.
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It just find it a bit annoying, when people start questioning a person's character, when that person is discussing his opinion that was ASKED from him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was asked his opinion on guitar shredders. He went out of his way to throw that in. That's why he's an asshole.
I agree totally. It's one of the reasons I find his personality so impalpable.
Steven's always been this way, and it's never sat easy with me. In PT he was always knocking other prog bands, going so far as to call The Flower Kings and Spock's Beard "the death of music". Then the Insurgentes documentary was almost unwatchable with all his obnoxious opinions, like shooting the iPod with the rifle. When he went full retro-prog, he still went out of his way to (stupidly) insist his music was jazz. Now this.
His whole schtick around always asserting that he's "above" his audience by insisting that he's not one of them has gotten stale, and is very omega of him. I'm tired of it. I don't like this album, and I didn't like To The Bone very much either. For me personally, I think it's just time to move on.
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https://twitter.com/SpectrumPulse/status/1357144761191251969
The Needle Drop, who shit on Raven, chimed in about TFB
not a steven wilson fan at all. is it weird that i found it oddly tolerable? i mean, yeah, it's derivative and soulless as hell, but he did manage to cobble together a pretty faithful art pop album, imo.
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It's funny that Gavin Harrison is now in a band which sounds exactly like latter day Porcupine Tree - and even have the same initials - Pineapple Thief.
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https://twitter.com/SpectrumPulse/status/1357144761191251969
The Needle Drop, who shit on Raven, chimed in about TFB
not a steven wilson fan at all. is it weird that i found it oddly tolerable? i mean, yeah, it's derivative and soulless as hell, but he did manage to cobble together a pretty faithful art pop album, imo.
Damn, what a plot twist :rollin
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It's funny that Gavin Harrison is now in a band which sounds exactly like latter day Porcupine Tree - and even have the same initials - Pineapple Thief.
I guess it's just the kind of music he likes ;) Although I think Pineapple Thief sounds more like Porcupine Tree of the Stupid Dream - In Absentia era, not like the metal-infused last albums of Porcupine.
In my opinion, this is exactly where he belongs. His playing is so clever yet elegant and it benefits introverted art rock music perfectly. He also played on Le Sacre Du Travail by The Tangent and while his performance was stunning on that one too, it wasn't incorporated as well as in PT (or PT).
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I really like Anthony Fantano, he's very articulate (rare for Youtube reviewers), he obviously has a good knowledge of the history of many music genres, and he almost always takes the time to clearly lay out the reasons for his opinion. That said, his Steven Wilson reviews (of Raven and HCE) I take with a smidgen of salt. Similar to Darren Lock (another Youtuber, mentioned on here before for his infamous review of Scenes from A Memory), he pretty much dismisses anything new that claims to be in some way 'prog'. They both have an apparent reverence for the old Crimson and Genesis and Floyd classics and come across as being very biased towards 'new' music in the 'old' genre. At least that's the way I perceive it (maybe I just don't quite understand their points - what, for example, does it mean when Fantano vaguely said he wished the 'sounds' of the track The Raven That Refused To Sing were "more interesting"?). Check out Darren Lock's review of To The Bone for an example of what I'm talking about (note, for the first 4 minutes of his review he's joking).
As for The Future Bites, I love 12 Things I Forgot and Anyone But Me. Man of the People and Count of Unease are really good. The rest isn't doing it for me just now, but I'll see how it beds in over time.
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It's funny that Gavin Harrison is now in a band which sounds exactly like latter day Porcupine Tree - and even have the same initials - Pineapple Thief.
I guess it's just the kind of music he likes ;) Although I think Pineapple Thief sounds more like Porcupine Tree of the Stupid Dream - In Absentia era, not like the metal-infused last albums of Porcupine.
In my opinion, this is exactly where he belongs. His playing is so clever yet elegant and it benefits introverted art rock music perfectly. He also played on Le Sacre Du Travail by The Tangent and while his performance was stunning on that one too, it wasn't incorporated as well as in PT (or PT).
Random thing I learned recently from Steve Hogarth’s podcast. If you’ve ever heard Hogarth’s pre-Marillion project How We Live, Gavin Harrison actually auditioned to be the drummer for the album, but Hogarth decided he was a little too much for what he was going for. He says every time he sees him Gavin gives him grief about being turned down for the gig.
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Steven's always been this way, and it's never sat easy with me. In PT he was always knocking other prog bands, going so far as to call The Flower Kings and Spock's Beard "the death of music". Then the Insurgentes documentary was almost unwatchable with all his obnoxious opinions, like shooting the iPod with the rifle. When he went full retro-prog, he still went out of his way to (stupidly) insist his music was jazz. Now this.
His whole schtick around always asserting that he's "above" his audience by insisting that he's not one of them has gotten stale, and is very omega of him. I'm tired of it. I don't like this album, and I didn't like To The Bone very much either. For me personally, I think it's just time to move on.
Seems like most of the musicians we think of as very artistic always seems to be a little eccentric, quirky, and, well, arrogant. Those attributes can make them a bit insufferable at times, but they are also why they create such great art. Prince, one of Wilson's music heroes, was similar in that regard. There is a self-confidence to their arty persona that can oft-putting, for sure.
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Amoeba Records:
Steven Wilson - What's in My Bag? [At Home Edition]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbtvzJdKYTc
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Fantano reviewed The Future Bites if anyone’s interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQpHaXqGlCg&t (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQpHaXqGlCg&t)
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It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.
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It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.
I respect them more for being true to themselves and standing their ground.
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I find it hilarious that one of Wilson's harshest critics over the years digs an album that a big chunk of the fanbase dismisses. :lol
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I find it hilarious that one of Wilson's harshest critics over the years digs an album that a big chunk of the fanbase dismisses. :lol
I like how he even says in the video "I know what you're going to say: 'of course YOU would like it'." :lol
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I find it hilarious that one of Wilson's harshest critics over the years digs an album that a big chunk of the fanbase dismisses. :lol
That reminds of the Rush critics back in the day who would go to their concert only so they could write a review in their local newspaper and rip the band to shreds while all but admitting in the review that they hated the band.
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It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.
I'm inclined to agree with this. While it was refreshing to see a seemingly healthy artist/media relationship in the prog community, pulling the whole "We're fans like you" card, sometimes it gets too close for comfort. For instance, hell will freeze over on the day The Prog Report publish a review that isn't gushing about a Morse/Portnoy release. They come across as enormous fanboys.
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It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.
I guess for exactly this reason Steven didn't post my review, although I sent it to who ever manages his website. Just not positive enough.
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It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.
I'm inclined to agree with this. While it was refreshing to see a seemingly healthy artist/media relationship in the prog community, pulling the whole "We're fans like you" card, sometimes it gets too close for comfort. For instance, hell will freeze over on the day The Prog Report publish a review that isn't gushing about a Morse/Portnoy release. They come across as enormous fanboys.
As much as I love the music of Neal Morse and TA, I have to admit that I chuckled when I saw that one of the Prog Report reviews of the new TA was by a guy who sorta works for Radiant Records. :lol :lol
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Steven's always been this way, and it's never sat easy with me. In PT he was always knocking other prog bands, going so far as to call The Flower Kings and Spock's Beard "the death of music". Then the Insurgentes documentary was almost unwatchable with all his obnoxious opinions, like shooting the iPod with the rifle. When he went full retro-prog, he still went out of his way to (stupidly) insist his music was jazz. Now this.
His whole schtick around always asserting that he's "above" his audience by insisting that he's not one of them has gotten stale, and is very omega of him. I'm tired of it. I don't like this album, and I didn't like To The Bone very much either. For me personally, I think it's just time to move on.
Seems like most of the musicians we think of as very artistic always seems to be a little eccentric, quirky, and, well, arrogant. Those attributes can make them a bit insufferable at times, but they are also why they create such great art. Prince, one of Wilson's music heroes, was similar in that regard. There is a self-confidence to their arty persona that can oft-putting, for sure.
Except... Steven Wilson is not Prince. Not by a long shot.
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I am a fan of Porcupine Tree -- specifically, Stupid Dream, IA, Deadwing, and Anesthetize. But while I have always been interested in what Steven Wilson does as a solo artists, comments he has made over the years have made it difficult for a fan like me (who much prefers him the band setting of PT) to really give his solo work support.
He slighted Dream Theater back in the day, and this EVH thing...I know what SW was trying to say, he just didn't say it very well. He should have known it would cause a reaction.
But his comments about (really paraphrasing here) about not being as enamored with guitar, and more focused on pop music...dude may not care, but the only reason so many people started paying serious attention to him was because of Porcupine Tree -- specifically, IA and Deadwing. A heavier sound, a guitar-based sound, and boom, major label interest and push.
I credit him for following his muse. I really do, even if I am not as fond of it. But he really needs to shut his mouth.
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It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.
I'm inclined to agree with this. While it was refreshing to see a seemingly healthy artist/media relationship in the prog community, pulling the whole "We're fans like you" card, sometimes it gets too close for comfort. For instance, hell will freeze over on the day The Prog Report publish a review that isn't gushing about a Morse/Portnoy release. They come across as enormous fanboys.
As much as I love the music of Neal Morse and TA, I have to admit that I chuckled when I saw that one of the Prog Report reviews of the new TA was by a guy who sorta works for Radiant Records. :lol :lol
:rollin
I noticed that! He gets kind of defensive about Radiant Records as well. I'm sure he means well, but when I brought up how the Radiant Records/Metal Blade releases of Neal's albums have a lesser quality of package than their Inside Out releases, he said something about how Radiant doesn't cheapen out on releases (but if you've seen the differences, you'd know what I'm talking about, especially with TA's Whirld Tour 2010 and KaLIVEoscope box sets).
-Marc.
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Seems like most of the musicians we think of as very artistic always seems to be a little eccentric, quirky, and, well, arrogant. Those attributes can make them a bit insufferable at times, but they are also why they create such great art. Prince, one of Wilson's music heroes, was similar in that regard. There is a self-confidence to their arty persona that can oft-putting, for sure.
Except... Steven Wilson is not Prince. Not by a long shot.
[/quote]
Good thing that I didn't say that he was. :)
I noticed that! He gets kind of defensive about Radiant Records as well. I'm sure he means well, but when I brought up how the Radiant Records/Metal Blade releases of Neal's albums have a lesser quality of package than their Inside Out releases, he said something about how Radiant doesn't cheapen out on releases (but if you've seen the differences, you'd know what I'm talking about, especially with TA's Whirld Tour 2010 and KaLIVEoscope box sets).
Yeah, he is a nice guy, but he gets super defensive about Radiant on the Neal FB page (or did back when I was still on there). I heard from more than one person who said he would PM them privately and ask them to take down posts that were critical of Radiant.
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Seems like most of the musicians we think of as very artistic always seems to be a little eccentric, quirky, and, well, arrogant. Those attributes can make them a bit insufferable at times, but they are also why they create such great art. Prince, one of Wilson's music heroes, was similar in that regard. There is a self-confidence to their arty persona that can oft-putting, for sure.
Except... Steven Wilson is not Prince. Not by a long shot.
Good thing that I didn't say that he was. :)
[/quote]
No, you didn't; I was more making the point that you can at least argue that Prince has standing to be that way. Outside of the prog world (and even within the prog world, to some) it's "Steven who?"
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I was more making the point that you can at least argue that Prince has standing to be that way. Outside of the prog world (and even within the prog world, to some) it's "Steven who?"
Serious question: arrogance and/or super confidence has more standing if you have mainstream success?
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Why does that matter. You make what you want. People still buy it.
I'd rather make a living doing what I love at the moment. Millions or not both were well off.
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I was more making the point that you can at least argue that Prince has standing to be that way. Outside of the prog world (and even within the prog world, to some) it's "Steven who?"
Serious question: arrogance and/or super confidence has more standing if you have mainstream success?
I don't know if I would say it that way. It's not really about "mainstream success", and more about the body of work. There's a fine line between eccentric genius and dick. I think it goes without saying that Prince is an eccentric genius. There are tens if not hundreds of musicians that will say "Well, if Prince suggests you do something, you kind of do it, he knows what he's talking about." I'll leave it to you where you put Steven Wilson on that continuum.
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I was more making the point that you can at least argue that Prince has standing to be that way. Outside of the prog world (and even within the prog world, to some) it's "Steven who?"
Serious question: arrogance and/or super confidence has more standing if you have mainstream success?
I don’t know about more standing but, if I’m Prince in his heyday, a super rich megastar and working my way through the world’s hottest women, there’s a good chance I would become a bit of an asshole (if I’m not one already).
Steven Wilson has grown in popularity but kind of has that tag of “the biggest musician you’ve never heard of”. He is now someone who has top 10 albums, appears on tv getting interviewed (not the big prime time chat shows but stuff like breakfast tv) and can play decent sized venues. Much more so than he ever did with Porcupine Tree, who played the University circuit. He is not a megastar though, he can go pretty much anywhere he wants unrecognised, he doesn’t have paparazzi camped outside his house, he’s not super rich or dating the hottest women in the world. If he’s an asshole, it’s because he was always an asshole, not because fame and fortune changed him.
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It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.
I'm inclined to agree with this. While it was refreshing to see a seemingly healthy artist/media relationship in the prog community, pulling the whole "We're fans like you" card, sometimes it gets too close for comfort. For instance, hell will freeze over on the day The Prog Report publish a review that isn't gushing about a Morse/Portnoy release. They come across as enormous fanboys.
As much as I love the music of Neal Morse and TA, I have to admit that I chuckled when I saw that one of the Prog Report reviews of the new TA was by a guy who sorta works for Radiant Records. :lol :lol
:rollin
I noticed that! He gets kind of defensive about Radiant Records as well. I'm sure he means well, but when I brought up how the Radiant Records/Metal Blade releases of Neal's albums have a lesser quality of package than their Inside Out releases, he said something about how Radiant doesn't cheapen out on releases (but if you've seen the differences, you'd know what I'm talking about, especially with TA's Whirld Tour 2010 and KaLIVEoscope box sets).
-Marc.
Agreed, I can only judge the vinyl releases and the InsideOut releases have a better packaging quality than f.e. Similtude and Adventure. Then again, InsideOut doesn't do triple gatefolds for 3LP albums, but used to stuff them into a normal gatefold. I'm quite content that now they release 3LP albums in a gatefold, a single sleeve and a slipcase around the two (The Absolute Universe, TFK's Islands,...).
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For everyone who pre-ordered the touring edition of TFB in October 2019 at Bravado/Universal, I just received a mail concerning this.
Dear Friedrich,
We regret to inform you, that the vinyl of „THE FUTURE BITES (LTD. VINYL EDITION - GERMAN VERSION)" has not been manufactured in the way we advertised it.
It was advertised as:
- Silver album 12” vinyl + Black standard 7’’ vinyl
The product we sent you wrongly was:
- Black standard album 12” vinyl + Red 7’’ vinyl
In the coming weeks we will provide you with a free of charge copy of the Silver Vinyl. We cannot confirm an exact date, but plan to do ship this to you in the first 2 weeks of March.
We sincerely regret the disappointment and inconvenience this issue has caused for you!
You do not need to return the black vinyl. We will not send you another 7" in the standard black colour. You already have the 7" in the higher-quality special red colour and also own the black album.
Thanks a lot for your patience & support
Your Steven Wilson Shop Team
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dude may not care, but the only reason so many people started paying serious attention to him was because of Porcupine Tree -- specifically, IA and Deadwing. A heavier sound, a guitar-based sound, and boom, major label interest and push.
Yet he's a bigger artist right now than Porcupine Tree ever was, so I don't know whether this is important at all. Musicians and bands change through time, same happens to Steven Wilson. The PT comparisons really are old; he's been off that for 10 years already.
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The PT comparisons really are old; he's been off that for 10 years already.
Tell that to MP warriors :lol
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I was more making the point that you can at least argue that Prince has standing to be that way. Outside of the prog world (and even within the prog world, to some) it's "Steven who?"
Serious question: arrogance and/or super confidence has more standing if you have mainstream success?
Well, gee, let me think about this for a second. Some relatively unknown dude from a band with a very weird name who were LUCKY to sell MAYBE 20k or 30k copies of their best albums acts like a complete fucking tool almost every time he's interviewed going out of his way to diss musicians who can play fucking circles around him while beating off to a porn video, compared to a person who has sold hundreds of millions of albums and is widely regarded as one of the greatest musicians to ever record an album...who has more standing to be "arrogant" ?
Boy, that's a really tough one there, yep, you got us with that one. wow
That might be sarcasm
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Steven Wilson has grown in popularity but kind of has that tag of “the biggest musician you’ve never heard of”. He is now someone who has top 10 albums, appears on tv getting interviewed (not the big prime time chat shows but stuff like breakfast tv) and can play decent sized venues. Much more so than he ever did with Porcupine Tree, who played the University circuit. He is not a megastar though, he can go pretty much anywhere he wants unrecognised, he doesn’t have paparazzi camped outside his house, he’s not super rich or dating the hottest women in the world. If he’s an asshole, it’s because he was always an asshole, not because fame and fortune changed him.
Fair points, but three asshole-ish remarks, if we want to call them that (the TA comments 20 years ago, the GVF comments, and the EVH comment), do not make an asshole, IMO. And he did apologize to Wolfgang, which a true asshole wouldn't have done. But I get that some are dug in on this and that is fine. It is what it is.
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Yet he's a bigger artist right now than Porcupine Tree ever was,
No, I don't think that's true. For example, on the tour for The Incident, he played The Warfield Theater in San Francisco. Capacity is just under 3,000 people. The last time he played San Francisco, he played The Filmore, which has a capacity of 800.
Interestingly, once he left PT behind, he played The Filmore, worked his way up to playing The Warfield again in 2015 as a solo artist, and then when he last played San Francisco in 2018, he had to downgrade back to The Filmore. So if anything, his popularity as a solo artist is declining.
Musicians and bands change through time, same happens to Steven Wilson. The PT comparisons really are old; he's been off that for 10 years already.
No doubt they all change. Again, if any of his fans take offense at my critiques, it's just opinion. No offense intended. I don't think the comparisons are old though. Porcupine Tree, as much as Steven Wilson tries to distance himself from it (except when the reissues make him money), was a special band. 10 years later or not, people will always compare him to Porcupine Tree, because that's what put him on the map. He owes his success to that band.
As I said earlier, I respect Steven Wilson following his muse. I really do. If he doesn't like guitar-based rock any longer, that's his call, of course. But his snide comments once in a while are stupid, particularly for a guy who no one would know about had it not been for the band he was a mainstay and creative leader in that he shelved so he could, essentially, become a solo artist on the back of their success and have a built-in audience. In a way, he hurt the careers of everyone else in Porcupine Tree -- people who worked just as hard as him to build that band up, particularly once they got signed to a major label.
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I'd say the Van Halen comments are really the only comments I can think of that he's made that seemed a bit tasteless. There's a time and place for things and considering people are still mourning Eddie Van Halen and his passing was somewhat recently, whether you like or dislike his music, it wasn't really the best time to express dislike for his guitar playing style and the movement he inspired. A bit foot-in-mouth syndrome.
Him throwing shade at Transatlantic is fair if he feels that way but also hypocritical and funny considering he went onto make Raven and Grace. You don't have to like every band in your musical neighborhood but considering you still share a lot of fans you know it will still piss people off. Not liking Greta Van Fleet isn't really a big deal either because opinions are opinions.
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Kinda goes to show how underwhelming the new album is that most of the conversation here is still about Steven Wilson's comments that he made prior to its release. :lol
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I think Steven Wilson's relative success is more visible in Europe then? Over here ever subsequent tour has been larger. He's been headlining festival, drawing huge crowds for solo tours. All things that didn't happen when Porcupine Tree were still active. At the beginning, his first tours, there might have been less people in the audience (though I remember the sold-out GFD show in 013), but the last time I saw him on the TTB tour (both Amsterdam and Copenhagen), it was packed.
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Steven Wilson has grown in popularity but kind of has that tag of “the biggest musician you’ve never heard of”. He is now someone who has top 10 albums, appears on tv getting interviewed (not the big prime time chat shows but stuff like breakfast tv) and can play decent sized venues. Much more so than he ever did with Porcupine Tree, who played the University circuit. He is not a megastar though, he can go pretty much anywhere he wants unrecognised, he doesn’t have paparazzi camped outside his house, he’s not super rich or dating the hottest women in the world. If he’s an asshole, it’s because he was always an asshole, not because fame and fortune changed him.
Fair points, but three asshole-ish remarks, if we want to call them that (the TA comments 20 years ago, the GVF comments, and the EVH comment), do not make an asshole, IMO. And he did apologize to Wolfgang, which a true asshole wouldn't have done. But I get that some are dug in on this and that is fine. It is what it is.
There's more than three, though, no?
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I think Steven Wilson's relative success is more visible in Europe then? Over here ever subsequent tour has been larger. He's been headlining festival, drawing huge crowds for solo tours. All things that didn't happen when Porcupine Tree were still active. At the beginning, his first tours, there might have been less people in the audience (though I remember the sold-out GFD show in 013), but the last time I saw him on the TTB tour (both Amsterdam and Copenhagen), it was packed.
What venues, though? His latest tour dates have St. David's Hall in Cardiff, and the Hammersmith Apollo. 2,000 and about 5,500 if memory services. In 2018, he was playing similar, and smaller, venues here in the States. Popular is relative; we were talking Prince before, and when he played Connecticut - NOT a large market - he basically rented out the entire Mohegan Sun arena - a 10,000 seat room - and sold all the tickets himself, handled all the staging himself... he basically hosted a backyard party for 10,000 people. We're not comparing apples and oranges here.
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What I will say is it will be interesting to see what an impact (if any) this album and future tour will have on his popularity. Just look at his instagram for how hard he's been promoting this album. I don't know how many new fans he will gain for the old fans he will lose but it will be very curious to see if he continues down this rabbit hole or if he crawls back to something more prog rock sounding. :p
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Steven Wilson has grown in popularity but kind of has that tag of “the biggest musician you’ve never heard of”. He is now someone who has top 10 albums, appears on tv getting interviewed (not the big prime time chat shows but stuff like breakfast tv) and can play decent sized venues. Much more so than he ever did with Porcupine Tree, who played the University circuit. He is not a megastar though, he can go pretty much anywhere he wants unrecognised, he doesn’t have paparazzi camped outside his house, he’s not super rich or dating the hottest women in the world. If he’s an asshole, it’s because he was always an asshole, not because fame and fortune changed him.
Fair points, but three asshole-ish remarks, if we want to call them that (the TA comments 20 years ago, the GVF comments, and the EVH comment), do not make an asshole, IMO. And he did apologize to Wolfgang, which a true asshole wouldn't have done. But I get that some are dug in on this and that is fine. It is what it is.
There's more than three, though, no?
Go see him live, he might say something on stage to make you cringe a little. He's just very arrogant.
When he played here, I stood on the side of the stage as they left. Every member of the band gave me a high five as they walked off stage, except Steven. Didn't bother me too much at the time, but with all this chat, it kind of makes me think about it again.
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It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.
I'm inclined to agree with this. While it was refreshing to see a seemingly healthy artist/media relationship in the prog community, pulling the whole "We're fans like you" card, sometimes it gets too close for comfort. For instance, hell will freeze over on the day The Prog Report publish a review that isn't gushing about a Morse/Portnoy release. They come across as enormous fanboys.
As much as I love the music of Neal Morse and TA, I have to admit that I chuckled when I saw that one of the Prog Report reviews of the new TA was by a guy who sorta works for Radiant Records. :lol :lol
I think I know who you're talking about. He's thanked by Neal in the liner notes of the new Transatlantic album.
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Steven Wilson has grown in popularity but kind of has that tag of “the biggest musician you’ve never heard of”. He is now someone who has top 10 albums, appears on tv getting interviewed (not the big prime time chat shows but stuff like breakfast tv) and can play decent sized venues. Much more so than he ever did with Porcupine Tree, who played the University circuit. He is not a megastar though, he can go pretty much anywhere he wants unrecognised, he doesn’t have paparazzi camped outside his house, he’s not super rich or dating the hottest women in the world. If he’s an asshole, it’s because he was always an asshole, not because fame and fortune changed him.
Fair points, but three asshole-ish remarks, if we want to call them that (the TA comments 20 years ago, the GVF comments, and the EVH comment), do not make an asshole, IMO. And he did apologize to Wolfgang, which a true asshole wouldn't have done. But I get that some are dug in on this and that is fine. It is what it is.
I’m not saying that he is an asshole, just saying, if he is, then he doesn’t have the same excuse that someone like Prince did. I usually find him reasonably witty and likeable on stage but fairly dull in interviews so I don’t really read a lot of his stuff. I do get the impression that he’s a bit up his own arse though at times.
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The problem with Steven's attitude for me is when you combine it with music that simply does not live up to someone who acts like their own music is so profound. Maybe if he had stopped at Porcupine Tree, I would feel differently. But I simply do not think his solo output is all that special to begin with. It is certainly very good. It is not leaps and bounds better than the best work of his peers (in prog). It's, at best, on par (with some of it).
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Going back to the actual album. I had a listen to it today after having a bit of a break from it due to Transatlantic. Not sure whether this has just allowed the songs to settle a bit but I enjoyed it quite a bit, the songs sounded a lot more catchy and memorable. Maybe there’s hope for it yet!
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I love that ugly guitar that comes in midway through Eminent Sleaze. I bounce between this song, Personal Shopper, and Man Of The People being my favorites so far but I truly love the whole thing. His best solo work by far imo.
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Steven Wilson has grown in popularity but kind of has that tag of “the biggest musician you’ve never heard of”. He is now someone who has top 10 albums, appears on tv getting interviewed (not the big prime time chat shows but stuff like breakfast tv) and can play decent sized venues. Much more so than he ever did with Porcupine Tree, who played the University circuit. He is not a megastar though, he can go pretty much anywhere he wants unrecognised, he doesn’t have paparazzi camped outside his house, he’s not super rich or dating the hottest women in the world. If he’s an asshole, it’s because he was always an asshole, not because fame and fortune changed him.
Fair points, but three asshole-ish remarks, if we want to call them that (the TA comments 20 years ago, the GVF comments, and the EVH comment), do not make an asshole, IMO. And he did apologize to Wolfgang, which a true asshole wouldn't have done. But I get that some are dug in on this and that is fine. It is what it is.
There's more than three, though, no?
I can't think of any, and I watch and read a lot of his interviews, but YMMV.
Going back to the actual album. I had a listen to it today after having a bit of a break from it due to Transatlantic. Not sure whether this has just allowed the songs to settle a bit but I enjoyed it quite a bit, the songs sounded a lot more catchy and memorable. Maybe there’s hope for it yet!
It's a good album. I won't get as much mileage out of it as I have all of his other new PT/solo albums I have gotten in real time since becoming a fan in '04/'05, but I still like it quite a bit. And I'd go see him if touring resumed and he came to my town, but this is not an album that would make me want to drive elsewhere to see it, like I did for The Raven when a friend and I drove to Chicago (5 hours each way) to see that show.
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Sometimes I imagine that there's a device called pretentiousmeter. It can basically output an alarm of sort if a discussion or the vibe in a room becomes to pretentious. However all devices needs to be calibrated and that's where I imagine you put Steven and Daniel Gildenlöw alone in a room for 1 hour. Ask them what they think about being part of the prog metal genre and how influenced they are by Yngvie Malmsteen solos.
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What I find funny about this is... This is a guy who made a song with lyrics "All the MTV and Cod Philosophy" on an album about the state of Children and their Social Disorders.
Daniel Gildenlow, the same with him. He made a song called America...
But Steven has shown his Bowie influence since the start...Radioactive Toy really has a Space Oddity vibe in it's delivery.
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I know there's that "actors on actors" type videos and I would definitely be intrigued to watch Daniel Gildenlöw and Steven Wilson have a discussion. I'm sure they don't particularly care for each other's music (but they might have mutual respect) but they are both big ego's and kinda buy into the 'god' hype created by the fans.
Even though SW is by no means Prince in terms of popularity, he's still 30 years into his career and I'd say for at least a decade now (probably closer to two) he's had a growing fanbase where a lot of people are fanatic to the point of considering him a deity. Heck you have those prog magazines with him on the cover and headlines like "The god of prog" and similar. I'm sure that definitely feeds into his ego and I think many people would probably become bigger dicks in that situation. There's bands that are bigger than Steven Wilson yet doesn't have the same kind of worship around any individual member. Some people live and breathe SW.
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What I find funny about this is... This is a guy who made a song with lyrics "All the MTV and Cod Philosophy" on an album about the state of Children and their Social Disorders.
14 years ago. More recently than that he was firmly anti-streaming, before he, like all of us should, realized he lost the battle. People change, standards change. We shouldn't hold people (except maybe politicians) to things they said or sung or wrote years ago.
I bet journalists are out to snare him, like many other celebrities, to try and get that faux-controversial scoop, to try and ruin careers.
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What I find funny about this is... This is a guy who made a song with lyrics "All the MTV and Cod Philosophy" on an album about the state of Children and their Social Disorders.
14 years ago. More recently than that he was firmly anti-streaming, before he, like all of us should, realized he lost the battle. People change, standards change. We shouldn't hold people (except maybe politicians) to things they said or sung or wrote years ago.
I bet journalists are out to snare him, like many other celebrities, to try and get that faux-controversial scoop, to try and ruin careers.
I wouldn't say they are out to snare him but clicks is what they are after and drama is what results in clicks. SW can give a wonderful in depth interview about his album for 30 minutes but a comment about how much he dislikes Greta Van Fleet is the perfect headline to get people clicking on the article and commenting.
I still think SW seems like a bit of a dick but I also understand the angle with these headlines.
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What I find funny about this is... This is a guy who made a song with lyrics "All the MTV and Cod Philosophy" on an album about the state of Children and their Social Disorders.
Daniel Gildenlow, the same with him. He made a song called America...
But Steven has shown his Bowie influence since the start...Radioactive Toy really has a Space Oddity vibe in it's delivery.
I always found Radioactive Toy to be pretty much a pure Pink Floyd pastiche.
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Sometimes I imagine that there's a device called pretentiousmeter. It can basically output an alarm of sort if a discussion or the vibe in a room becomes to pretentious. However all devices needs to be calibrated and that's where I imagine you put Steven and Daniel Gildenlöw alone in a room for 1 hour. Ask them what they think about being part of the prog metal genre and how influenced they are by Yngvie Malmsteen solos.
Fuck, I rolled hard at this :rollin :rollin :rollin
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ego/narcissism meter.
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I know there's that "actors on actors" type videos and I would definitely be intrigued to watch Daniel Gildenlöw and Steven Wilson have a discussion. I'm sure they don't particularly care for each other's music (but they might have mutual respect) but they are both big ego's and kinda buy into the 'god' hype created by the fans.
I'm sure Steven Wilson would say he doesn't know who Daniel is, like he said about Devin Townsend. He's more "mainstream" now and above that sort of music of course. The only reason he can't pretend he doesn't know Transatlantic is because of his past with Portnoy, being a big fan of PT and taking them out with DT.
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I know there's that "actors on actors" type videos and I would definitely be intrigued to watch Daniel Gildenlöw and Steven Wilson have a discussion. I'm sure they don't particularly care for each other's music (but they might have mutual respect) but they are both big ego's and kinda buy into the 'god' hype created by the fans.
I'm sure Steven Wilson would say he doesn't know who Daniel is, like he said about Devin Townsend. He's more "mainstream" now and above that sort of music of course. The only reason he can't pretend he doesn't know Transatlantic is because of his past with Portnoy, being a big fan of PT and taking them out with DT.
A quick google search showed me an interview from 2013 where he said he was a big fan of Daniel.
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I know there's that "actors on actors" type videos and I would definitely be intrigued to watch Daniel Gildenlöw and Steven Wilson have a discussion. I'm sure they don't particularly care for each other's music (but they might have mutual respect) but they are both big ego's and kinda buy into the 'god' hype created by the fans.
I'm sure Steven Wilson would say he doesn't know who Daniel is, like he said about Devin Townsend. He's more "mainstream" now and above that sort of music of course. The only reason he can't pretend he doesn't know Transatlantic is because of his past with Portnoy, being a big fan of PT and taking them out with DT.
A quick google search showed me an interview from 2013 where he said he was a big fan of Daniel.
Yes, but that was 2013 when he was more "prog". Now he's more "mainstream", as he's disassociated himself from his prog past. I kid of course, but that's how he comes across to me. I'm sure he's heard of Devin Townsend (probably not a fan) but comes across as he's "above that" - and I think that's what rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
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Finally listening to the album. Not great tbh, but not bad at all. It kinda feels like dad music a bit lol.
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Yes, but that was 2013 when he was more "prog". Now he's more "mainstream", as he's disassociated himself from his prog past. I kid of course, but that's how he comes across to me. I'm sure he's heard of Devin Townsend (probably not a fan) but comes across as he's "above that" - and I think that's what rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
With all due respect, this is a bad take. I seriously doubt he is pretending to be unfamiliar with an artist he actually is. It's not like Devin Townsend (of whom I am a big fan) is a household name.
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Yes, but that was 2013 when he was more "prog". Now he's more "mainstream", as he's disassociated himself from his prog past. I kid of course, but that's how he comes across to me. I'm sure he's heard of Devin Townsend (probably not a fan) but comes across as he's "above that" - and I think that's what rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
With all due respect, this is a bad take. I seriously doubt he is pretending to be unfamiliar with an artist he actually is. It's not like Devin Townsend (of whom I am a big fan) is a household name.
Well I did say I was kidding for the most part. I have no idea if he know's who Devin is or not. My main point is, to me, he comes across as is he feels he's "above" the prog genre, and it's fans, which is pretty much all of us - and that's what rubs me, and others the wrong way. And I say that as a pretty big SW fan.
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Well I did say I was kidding for the most part. I have no idea if he know's who Devin is or not. My main point is, to me, he comes across as is he feels he's "above" the prog genre, and it's fans, which is pretty much all of us - and that's what rubs me, and others the wrong way. And I say that as a pretty big SW fan.
I don't think he wants to be thought of as belonging to any one genre, and because of the negative, unfair negative stereotypes about prog that is pretty widespread, I think he wants to avoid being thought of as "just prog" for that very reason. While some embrace the prog tag, he tries to avoid it, which I agree can be odd considering how much of his music falls under the prog banner, not to mention that he has done the 5.1 for a lot of older prog acts now, so it sure does seem like he wants it both ways. I totally get that. But I do think he craves more mainstream success, and I think he knows that the minute many think, "prog artist," when they hear his name, doors will be slammed. Sadly, the stereotypes that prog is nothing but overblown excess like Tales from Topographic Oceans and pompous attitudes like the ones portrayed by ELP in the 70's linger.
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I get the whiff, though, that he wants it both ways. "I'm not prog!" but "I'm a prog god!". I know he's never said that, to my knowledge, but look at his production and remixing work; it's almost all hard core prog.
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https://twitter.com/stevenwilsonhq/status/1040373852218556421
Prog Awards tonight! @ProgMagazineUK
#progawards2018
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnAmWw3WsAAPA1H?format=jpg&name=large)
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It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.
I fully agree.
But it can really bother people, as you may have noticed by reading this thread :lol
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I know there's that "actors on actors" type videos and I would definitely be intrigued to watch Daniel Gildenlöw and Steven Wilson have a discussion. I'm sure they don't particularly care for each other's music (but they might have mutual respect) but they are both big ego's and kinda buy into the 'god' hype created by the fans.
I'm sure Steven Wilson would say he doesn't know who Daniel is, like he said about Devin Townsend. He's more "mainstream" now and above that sort of music of course. The only reason he can't pretend he doesn't know Transatlantic is because of his past with Portnoy, being a big fan of PT and taking them out with DT.
A quick google search showed me an interview from 2013 where he said he was a big fan of Daniel.
Yes, but that was 2013 when he was more "prog". Now he's more "mainstream", as he's disassociated himself from his prog past. I kid of course, but that's how he comes across to me. I'm sure he's heard of Devin Townsend (probably not a fan) but comes across as he's "above that" - and I think that's what rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
Well NOW you're just making up stuff. It's okay to dedicate pages of discussion to two things he said in interviews rather than talk about his new album. But judging him for what he probably would say goes too far in my opinion.
Edit, I just saw you posted that you were kidding... still, I can't take this discussion about this guy anymore :lol
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https://twitter.com/stevenwilsonhq/status/1040373852218556421
Prog Awards tonight! @ProgMagazineUK
#progawards2018
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnAmWw3WsAAPA1H?format=jpg&name=large)
Some of the comments to that tweet are nauseating. :) :)
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The thought of Steven Wilson pretending to not know who some bands/artists are does sound like a conspiracy theory but I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if it was the case. Working within the prog rock community (which isn't THAT huge let's be honest) for 20 years and not having come across the name Devin Townsend even once or having the bare minimum knowledge about his work seems far fetched. Sure you don't have to be familiar with all the music of your 'rivals' within the same space, but Devin Townsend within the prog community is still a name big enough that you would expect it to be mentioned at least once by someone (in whatever context).
I'm not a huge fan when he does the 'pretend to not know band X to seem above them' because honestly in the big scope of things you could ask 100 people on the street about his name and you would get a lot of blank stares. It's cool that he got Elton John on the new album and all though.
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Listened to TFB today. Mostly in the background.
I don't love it. I don't hate it.
It'll take a while to sink in. TTB just recently clicked, so It's going to be a while.
It’s really great background music tbh. I like the soundscape a lot, but the lyrics are tough (always are for me with SW). I mean I listen to SELF and just feel sorry for the guy. Hope he enjoys the ride.
I've never felt as indifferent about a new SW album as I am now, but it sure is good background music. The first ever SW album I can put on in the background while cooking with my girlfriend, without it ever interfering too much. Usually there's always some loud proggy sections that can kind of get on her nerves.
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The thought of Steven Wilson pretending to not know who some bands/artists are does sound like a conspiracy theory but I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if it was the case. Working within the prog rock community (which isn't THAT huge let's be honest) for 20 years and not having come across the name Devin Townsend even once or having the bare minimum knowledge about his work seems far fetched. Sure you don't have to be familiar with all the music of your 'rivals' within the same space, but Devin Townsend within the prog community is still a name big enough that you would expect it to be mentioned at least once by someone (in whatever context).
I was holding my breath for SW's response when the interviewer brought up Devin Townsend's Empath. I just can't imagine him liking Devin's music but I totally WTF'ed when he said he doesn't know who fookin' Devin Townsend is. I really get the feeling he just doesn't want to be associated (anymore) with prog metal.
Same with Frost*, I mean.. he hasn't heard of Frost* and yet he covers a song by Lonely Robot (side project from one of the dudes of Frost*, John Mitchell if I recall correctly).
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I find it very hard to believe he "hasn't heard of" Frost* or Devin Townsend.
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Yeah that's like when people go like " what's that band you say you like / Dreeeeeeeem theatarrrr or..something i dunno ? "
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Well, no, actually that's not the same thing. Most of the people I have in my life are absolutely clueless about Dream Theater because they're not "into" progressive metal music. They listen to whatever is on the radio.
Steven Wilson, a guy who, up until just a couple of years ago was pumping out prog album after prog album after prog album and even mixing and producing stuff from bands like Opeth and he's going to claim he has no idea who Devin Townsend is? That's completely different than your friends and acquaintances not knowing who Dream Theater are.
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The thought of Steven Wilson pretending to not know who some bands/artists are does sound like a conspiracy theory but I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if it was the case. Working within the prog rock community (which isn't THAT huge let's be honest) for 20 years and not having come across the name Devin Townsend even once or having the bare minimum knowledge about his work seems far fetched. Sure you don't have to be familiar with all the music of your 'rivals' within the same space, but Devin Townsend within the prog community is still a name big enough that you would expect it to be mentioned at least once by someone (in whatever context).
I was holding my breath for SW's response when the interviewer brought up Devin Townsend's Empath. I just can't imagine him liking Devin's music but I totally WTF'ed when he said he doesn't know who fookin' Devin Townsend is. I really get the feeling he just doesn't want to be associated (anymore) with prog metal.
Same with Frost*, I mean.. he hasn't heard of Frost* and yet he covers a song by Lonely Robot (side project from one of the dudes of Frost*, John Mitchell if I recall correctly).
Plus his drummer for 3-4 years, Craig Blundell, was in Frost*
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holy shit, I didn't know that, wow :lol
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That just makes me think, when he says "Heard", he actually means to say "Listen" as in he hasn't listened to their music, and therefore hasn't heard of them.
And it's also possible to be aware of someone and not know every project they are involved in. You can know a person based off an unknown project or some other way, without knowing anything about their major project.
It's easy. They don't go onto forums, or Facebook, or anything online, and go out of there way to look for these bands or interests that many of us lovers of prog music do. They just make music, and do interviews, and live their life outside of that music world. Some musicians neglect that entirely while enjoying their life.
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He's on the cover of the new "Prog" magazine issue advertisement
(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/Fm3j6TQWWn7GjZxvDKo98P-970-80.jpg.webp)
I wonder how he feels about that? :lol
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That just makes me think, when he says "Heard", he actually means to say "Listen" as in he hasn't listened to their music, and therefore hasn't heard of them.
And it's also possible to be aware of someone and not know every project they are involved in. You can know a person based off an unknown project or some other way, without knowing anything about their major project.
It's easy. They don't go onto forums, or Facebook, or anything online, and go out of there way to look for these bands or interests that many of us lovers of prog music do. They just make music, and do interviews, and live their life outside of that music world. Some musicians neglect that entirely while enjoying their life.
I don't know - if you watch that video he comes across as if he's never heard of them before. I believe he said something like - these are artists I know nothing about, I'll have to check them out - or something like that. Who really knows, but to me, it just seems like it's his "schtick", to distance himself from the 'stigma' of being associated as a prog artist, or with the prog genre.
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That just makes me think, when he says "Heard", he actually means to say "Listen" as in he hasn't listened to their music, and therefore hasn't heard of them.
And it's also possible to be aware of someone and not know every project they are involved in. You can know a person based off an unknown project or some other way, without knowing anything about their major project.
It's easy. They don't go onto forums, or Facebook, or anything online, and go out of there way to look for these bands or interests that many of us lovers of prog music do. They just make music, and do interviews, and live their life outside of that music world. Some musicians neglect that entirely while enjoying their life.
I don't know - if you watch that video he comes across as if he's never heard of them before. I believe he said something like - these are artists I know nothing about, I'll have to check them out - or something like that. Who really knows, but to me, it just seems like it's his "schtick", to distance himself from the 'stigma' of being associated as a prog artist, or with the prog genre.
:lol :lol okay...
I don't even read interviews much. But did because people here were discussing it. So I had to see what the fuss was about.
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Outtake "The Tastemaker" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEWYn1G1U2I
Great song and would've fit on the album perfectly after Self if I was assembling the tracklist.
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Outtake "The Tastemaker" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEWYn1G1U2I
Great song and would've fit on the album perfectly after Self if I was assembling the tracklist.
Solid tune. I'll snag it once the guy who got the super duper box set puts it up digitally, which he has said he will do, but I doubt it'll be a song I get much mileage from. Fits in stylistically with the rest of the album and the bonus songs, just not as good as most, IMO.
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Well, no, actually that's not the same thing. Most of the people I have in my life are absolutely clueless about Dream Theater because they're not "into" progressive metal music. They listen to whatever is on the radio.
No I mean people who know full well who your fave band is - but pretend to not know to appear cool or like they only listen to underground music.
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No offense to anyone's taste, but that song blows.
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Sometimes it is just easier to state you don't know something, opposed to answering questions about your opinion on the subject. Especially when you opinion deviates from what people want to hear/expect to hear or if you think you don't have anything to add. I do kinda doubt Wilson does not know Townsend to at least some small degree, but I also would not hang any grand conclusions to that remark, such as him wanting to distance himself from prog.
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Sometimes it is just easier to state you don't know something, opposed to answering questions about your opinion on the subject. Especially when you opinion deviates from what people want to hear/expect to hear or if you think you don't have anything to add. I do kinda doubt Wilson does not know Townsend to at least some small degree, but I also would not hang any grand conclusions to that remark, such as him wanting to distance himself from prog.
Then the interviewer shouldn't ask questions asking for their opinion.
And he should pander to others emotions because they can't handle that opinion. Seems like they need thicker skin...
I doubt Eddy would've cared about Stevens Opinions, the same Devin Townsend likely doesn't care about Stevens Opinions on him. The only ones whom seem to care are the fans, and that is just funny.
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Somebody needs to let Portnoy know about this. I'll just leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hKfEwwaDX8
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Can't decide if that or an Adrenaline Mob reunion would be a harder pass. ;) :)
(Not true; I'd pay to hear Mike play with Devin).
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This was just posted on his Facebook page...
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/steven-wilson-i-dont-think-we-live-world-rock-music-any-more-3132027
Now that headline makes me think that he is just Trolling the fuck out of these interviews. And giving these responses just to generate buzz and further his concept of consumerism and want, including information...
:lol :lol
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But who would play bass ?
I think Devin could do it - he seems to be the least egotistical and would gladly let other guitar players shine.
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This was just posted on his Facebook page...
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/steven-wilson-i-dont-think-we-live-world-rock-music-any-more-3132027
Now that headline makes me think that he is just Trolling the fuck out of these interviews. And giving these responses just to generate buzz and further his concept of consumerism and want, including information...
:lol :lol
That's actually not the worst interview by him I've ever read. He makes some good points (though I still find it incomprehensible that Sir Elton John knows Steven Wilson, but Steven Wilson doesn't know Devin Townsend.)
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But who would play bass ?
I think Devin could do it - he seems to be the least egotistical and would gladly let other guitar players shine.
Actually, if you read the comments to Portnoy's tweet, Devin himself asked if he can play bass :lol
https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/1313248742154305536
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That would be a too many chefs in the kitchen situation. Devin, more than the others, likes writing alone and not collaborating much, and I can't see Wilson and Akerfeldt being keen on a collaboration where there are three prolific songwriters in the band, plus Portnoy would inevitably want his say-so to get part of the songwriting credit even with the others doing all of the heavy lifting. I get Portnoy wanting to do it, as these are three of the biggest "stars" in the prog or metal world he has yet to really work with so far, and he wants to check that box, but it just doesn't seem feasible.
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This is the collaboration I've wanted more than any other. Way back when MP talked about wanting to do it many years ago. I would pay big money without hearing a single note if those 4 guys made an album.
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Fun to think about. But would never happen IRL. 4 different guys with 4 different visions and 4 different work ethics.
I'm not a huge Opeth fan so idk much about Mike Akerfeldt, but I know SW and Dev like to take their time with their music whereas MP is more of a "get in, get out, release the record 6 months later" kind of guy. I remember MP said I think on Neal Morse's podcast that he gets bored quickly and that's why he's always moving from project to project to project. I don't think his attention span would be long enough to work with someone like SW or Dev.
Also SW doesn't seem interested in metal much nowadays and I think MP would undoubtedly want to steer the project in that direction.
In other news, my Deluxe Edition Box Set finally arrived, so I put together an extended version of the album
(https://i.imgur.com/4R1q3eI.png)
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I'm not a huge Opeth fan so idk much about Mike Akerfeldt, but I know SW and Dev like to take their time with their music whereas MP is more of a "get in, get out, release the record 6 months later" kind of guy. I remember MP said I think on Neal Morse's podcast that he gets bored quickly and that's why he's always moving from project to project to project. I don't think his attention span would be long enough to work with someone like SW or Dev.
Exactly this. And I think Mikael is the same way (like Devin and Steven). He takes his time with new music.
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But who would play bass ?
I think Devin could do it - he seems to be the least egotistical and would gladly let other guitar players shine.
Actually, if you read the comments to Portnoy's tweet, Devin himself asked if he can play bass :lol
https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/1313248742154305536
I stand correct.
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Outtake "The Tastemaker" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEWYn1G1U2I
Great song and would've fit on the album perfectly after Self if I was assembling the tracklist.
Solid tune. I'll snag it once the guy who got the super duper box set puts it up digitally, which he has said he will do, but I doubt it'll be a song I get much mileage from. Fits in stylistically with the rest of the album and the bonus songs, just not as good as most, IMO.
That exactly what this guy did, see the link above. The guy even MADE A VIDEO FOR THE TRACK. Wow!
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Loved that outtake track. It definitely would've fit in the album, the beat kinda reminds me a bit of White Zombie's More Human than Human.
That interview linked in the profile in interesting about that guy who purchased the 10,000 unique boxset and why he decided to buy the set, the pain he took to clean up the track from the Vinyl.
I like a lot of the material left out but only this track seems like it would fit the album.
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Steven, Mikael, Portnoy and Devin would never actually agree to form a supergroup, but if they were absolutely forced to for some reason, I imagine it would go like this:
Steven and Mikael, being good friends, past collaborators, and the most similar in musical tastes, would immediately take the reigns and do whatever they'd want to do. They'd probably come up with something with a weird combination of influences that doesn't sound anything like conventional prog or even like Storm Corrosion (they've said if they were to do a follow-up to that album it would sound completely different). Portnoy would inevitably try to steer things in a more upbeat, proggy, or metal direction and likely get shot down by Steven and Mikael. In a repeat of the OSI sequence of events, he'd eventually give up, and in future interviews claim Steven and Mikael were "downers" and "difficult to work with" and that the project wasn't "what he hoped it would be".
Devin would be there. He'd play bass, sing on a few songs, maybe contribute a few musical ideas, but generally just sit back and let everyone else do their thing.
The album would be a disappointment to most people but it'd probably be quite good in its own weird way.
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Steven and Mikael, being good friends, past collaborators, and the most similar in musical tastes, would immediately take the reigns and do whatever they'd want to do. They'd probably come up with something with a weird combination of influences that doesn't sound anything like conventional prog or even like Storm Corrosion (they've said if they were to do a follow-up to that album it would sound completely different). Portnoy would inevitably try to steer things in a more upbeat, proggy, or metal direction and likely get shot down by Steven and Mikael. In a repeat of the OSI sequence of events, he'd eventually give up, and in future interviews claim Steven and Mikael were "downers" and "difficult to work with" and that the project wasn't "what he hoped it would be".
Devin would be there. He'd play bass, sing on a few songs, maybe contribute a few musical ideas, but generally just sit back and let everyone else do their thing.
Sounds a bit like how Transatlantic is....Switch Steven and Mikael with Neal and Mike, Mike with Roine, and Devin with Pete. :lol
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A combination of things led me to listen Prince today. So partly my wife's look of disgust every time I've ever said I can't name one Prince song I like, partly because it's valentine's day and wanted to put something on that my wife and I could listen to together and partly because of hearing Steve Wilson cite him as one of, if not THE greatest artist ever!
Anyway, I have listened to the albums Purple Rain and Sing 'O the Times today. They were fine but can't say I'm desperate to relisten. The funniest thing though, was that literally the first song I listened to (Let's Go Crazy) has an Eddie Van Halen style guitar solo as the outro :lol :lol :lol
One last thing to add, as Devin Townsend has been mentioned in this thread. When it comes to the personality types of two artists I listen to, these two couldn't be further apart. Devin epitomises everything that I look for in an artist! He is just a genuine guy, humble and I could listen to him talk for hours (and have done so, watching hours of interviews). Steven on the other hand gives me the opposite feeling. I can't watch/read a single interview without thinking he's a bit of a knob at some point.
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A combination of things led me to listen Prince today. So partly my wife's look of disgust every time I've ever said I can't name one Prince song I like, partly because it's valentine's day and wanted to put something on that my wife and I could listen to together and partly because of hearing Steve Wilson cite him as one of, if not THE greatest artist ever!
Anyway, I have listened to the albums Purple Rain and Sing 'O the Times today. They were fine but can't say I'm desperate to relisten. The funniest thing though, was that literally the first song I listened to (Let's Go Crazy) has an Eddie Van Halen style guitar solo as the outro :lol :lol :lol
One last thing to add, as Devin Townsend has been mentioned in this thread. When it comes to the personality types of two artists I listen to, these two couldn't be further apart. Devin epitomises everything that I look for in an artist! He is just a genuine guy, humble and I could listen to him talk for hours (and have done so, watching hours of interviews). Steven on the other hand gives me the opposite feeling. I can't watch/read a single interview without thinking he's a bit of a knob at some point.
I am sure one being Canadian and one being British has nothing to do with their personalities. :biggrin:
I don't care about the artist at all. I care about their music. And sometimes the music reflects the artist, as the artist uses music to reflect their personality. Devin's is exactly like this, it's all over the place. It's like a way for Devin to get out all this craziness in his head so he could be more humble. He even said, he had to go to an unsettling mindset to make Deconstruction that he didn't like, but felt he needed to do to help himself. That was the entire point of the Devin Townsend Projects 4 albums. And why he felt it was time to disband That Project. It all culminates to Empath, which is a fantastic album.
Steven has always been critical of life in his music. Radioactive Toy, Swallows Dance Above The Sun, Four Chords That Made A Million. Those should give you insight into Stevens mindset. Which, for me, knowing this, it doesn't surprise me when he talks about things in interviews. Especially when being asked for his opinion. That's just who Steven Wilson is, and I won't expect him to change just to please my morals and values.
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To be fair. Devin is Canadian and Steven is from England. Even if Devin was the most offensive Canadian and Steven the politest Englishmen you would find Steven to be more of a knob than Devin 😁
However I do understand Steven. It's just he is trying so hard to output what he thinks correctly and it becomes a bit complicated. He can't be untrue to himself and needs / like to speak his mind. Is my interpretation ofc. In the end what he sais makes sense and I often agree, it just comes of as a bit arrogant and pretentious.
Devin is extremely humble and have a great way to be true to himself but still enjoy and be uplifting about the world around him. Karisma? Humor? I guess Steven doesn't come of as a person with humor 🤔
However I do like that we have both Stevens and Devins in this world 😊
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To be fair. Devin is Canadian and Steven is from England. Even if Devin was the most offensive Canadian and Steven the politest Englishmen you would find Steven to be more of a knob than Devin 😁
However I do understand Steven. It's just he is trying so hard to output what he thinks correctly and it becomes a bit complicated. He can't be untrue to himself and needs / like to speak his mind. Is my interpretation ofc. In the end what he sais makes sense and I often agree, it just comes of as a bit arrogant and pretentious.
Devin is extremely humble and have a great way to be true to himself but still enjoy and be uplifting about the world around him. Karisma? Humor? I guess Steven doesn't come of as a person with humor 🤔
However I do like that we have both Stevens and Devins in this world 😊
It's just who they are.
It's why band members quit or get fired, because their personality and whom they are is too much, and so they either leave, or fight and end up causing a rift with the band. Portnoy left, because of this. Waters got fired because of this. Both were being true to themselves.
So, all this time, Porcupine Tree was never a full band effort. Even though, the band had input in the songwriting, it wasn't the bands decision. The decisions were all Stevens. I am sure the other guys knew this, or else they would've left. Unless, they had contractual obligations to fill, and they filled it with The Incident. Same with Opeth. Same with Prince and David Bowie. But, just because those 2 are well regarded and held highly they get a pass, and steven doesn't because he isn't well regarded and held highly, is bullshit to me. In my eyes, All are assholes in their own ways, conceited and so sure of themselves, I actually think Prince would be the biggest asshole out of all of them.
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Yeah, I think Wilson is more pretentions than arrogant, and I'll bet he would even admit, if you got him on the right day, to being a little pretentious.
Back to the new album, if we can assume that all of his highest chart positions here in the U.S. are for the first week (which is a safe one, I think), after seeing his last three solo albums all get into the top 60 here in America, The Future Bites is debuting at 193 here in the States. That is a massive dip. Looks like it is doing well over in Europe, so he might very well chalk this up to "those dumb Americans don't get it," but will be interesting to see if or how that affects his touring plans here in the States given that ticket sales are likely not as much of a sure thing as they would have been a year or so ago.
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It's just who they are.
It's why band members quit or get fired, because their personality and whom they are is too much, and so they either leave, or fight and end up causing a rift with the band. Portnoy left, because of this. Waters got fired because of this. Both were being true to themselves.
So, all this time, Porcupine Tree was never a full band effort. Even though, the band had input in the songwriting, it wasn't the bands decision. The decisions were all Stevens. I am sure the other guys knew this, or else they would've left. Unless, they had contractual obligations to fill, and they filled it with The Incident. Same with Opeth. Same with Prince and David Bowie. But, just because those 2 are well regarded and held highly they get a pass, and steven doesn't because he isn't well regarded and held highly, is bullshit to me. In my eyes, All are assholes in their own ways, conceited and so sure of themselves, I actually think Prince would be the biggest asshole out of all of them.
I think "asshole" is an overstatement - I think that word is reserved for true a-holes like Phil Anselmo, Axl Rose and Don Henley - but guys like Prince, Bowie, Waters, Wilson, etc. were/all way more artist than entertainer, and musicians who tilt more towards the artistic side often tend to be, shall we say, eccentric. That eccentricity is often what gives them both that drive and creative energy that results in such dynamic and powerful art. You kind of have to take the bad with the good, generally speaking, when it comes to those types of artists, IMO.
And that is not to say that guys like Bowie and Prince weren't entertaining as hell. They were! But I am trusting you know what I mean when talking entertainer vs artist.
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It's just who they are.
It's why band members quit or get fired, because their personality and whom they are is too much, and so they either leave, or fight and end up causing a rift with the band. Portnoy left, because of this. Waters got fired because of this. Both were being true to themselves.
So, all this time, Porcupine Tree was never a full band effort. Even though, the band had input in the songwriting, it wasn't the bands decision. The decisions were all Stevens. I am sure the other guys knew this, or else they would've left. Unless, they had contractual obligations to fill, and they filled it with The Incident. Same with Opeth. Same with Prince and David Bowie. But, just because those 2 are well regarded and held highly they get a pass, and steven doesn't because he isn't well regarded and held highly, is bullshit to me. In my eyes, All are assholes in their own ways, conceited and so sure of themselves, I actually think Prince would be the biggest asshole out of all of them.
I think "asshole" is an overstatement - I think that word is reserved for true a-holes like Phil Anselmo, Axl Rose and Don Henley - but guys like Prince, Bowie, Waters, Wilson, etc. were/all way more artist than entertainer, and musicians who tilt more towards the artistic side often tend to be, shall we say, eccentric. That eccentricity is often what gives them both that drive and creative energy that results in such dynamic and powerful art. You kind of have to take the bad with the good, generally speaking, when it comes to those types of artists, IMO.
And that is not to say that guys like Bowie and Prince weren't entertaining as hell. They were! But I am trusting you know what I mean when talking entertainer vs artist.
Yeah, that was over-emphasis from me. And right, those guys actually did asshole actions on stage. I get what you mean.
Yeah, I think Wilson is more pretentions than arrogant, and I'll bet he would even admit, if you got him on the right day, to being a little pretentious.
Back to the new album, if we can assume that all of his highest chart positions here in the U.S. are for the first week (which is a safe one, I think), after seeing his last three solo albums all get into the top 60 here in America, The Future Bites is debuting at 193 here in the States. That is a massive dip. Looks like it is doing well over in Europe, so he might very well chalk this up to "those dumb Americans don't get it," but will be interesting to see if or how that affects his touring plans here in the States given that ticket sales are likely not as much of a sure thing as they would have been a year or so ago.
"Americans just don't have the time for music anymore, and no one seems to care". :biggrin: :biggrin:
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In regard to the album I have given it some more spins. Some parts feels stronger and some are still a bit meh for me. I have nothing against going pop btw. Pop is a nice genre filled with awesome stuff and I would like more prog bands that noticed that (like A.C.T). However this is ofc not prop pop but an effort for Steven to make some more pop oriented songs that he himself would appreciate.
The part I in the end would have wanted is for Steven to go for a more modern sound. The album has this 80s / 90s production to it but with overall better fidelity. The choir parts are cool but the instrumentation could have been balder and with more attitude. Mostly considering the subject.
Btw what do you all think about Steven going full commercial and at the same time hitting on just that? I follow him on Instagram and it's filled with the exact thing the album concerns. At the same time I see that you can ironically do stuff to highlight it, like the super exclusive release and then sing about limited edition sets. For me he didn't nail that. I don't find it to be an all that successful artsy way of hitting at it. Maybe I even misunderstand it and he's not even doing any of it ironically? 🤔 The subject itself I love and find interesting. I think commercialism has become ridiculous and all the limited toys and exclusives, the me me me etc. is just the wrong path for us humans. But with capitalism the way it is there's no stopping it.
It's strange that POS Panther somehow comes to mind when listening to it. They are like two different paths. Personally Panther hits a lot better for me but it's also not an two albums that should be compared like that.
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I don't know how this album will sit with me in the long run, but as usual I will add some tracks from it to my "favourite SW songs" playlist on Spotify (12 Things I Forgot, Man Of The People, Follower).
Ugh, this is not directed at you per se, but I hate this new tendency towards playlists. Hell, a friend of mine, who is as big a Wilson/PT fan as I am, listened to The Future Bites once and his initial reaction was, "Not sure if any of these songs will fit into my Wilson playlist." :facepalm: :facepalm: Call me old fashioned, but I still love listening to full albums, and in the case of the artists in my top tier who are still active (SW, Neal Morse, Flower Kings, Dream Theater, Devin Townsend), their new albums are always getting many listens because they have more than enough equity built up that they will never get the "one and done" treatment so to speak.
I totally get what you're saying, Kev. I've just never been an "I only listen to the whole album as a full experience" kind of guy. I do this with every artist.
Hell, I even put the songs on shuffle for NO continuity/sense at all :lol (Subdivisions followed by Far Cry, to then jump back to Bastille Day etc).
I'm catching up on this thread now so forgive me if this has been covered more but I am big on playlists too. I have a Playlist for every genre and toss songs I like into the respective genre. If I feel like Prog I play the prog Playlist, acoustic instrumental stuff, Playlist for that.
I find that very few albums are excellent cover to cover so why listen to tracks I don't care to listen to or particularly like just for the sake of continuity.
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People discussing his "guitar is not relevant anymore" comments so passionately: what Steven Wilson wants.
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After catching up with the thread I definitely think was SW said in regard to EVH was in bad taste but wholly on par for SW. I listen to his podcast and he can seem pretentious at times but doesn't seem like an insufferable ass and IMO has lightened up a bit over the years.
As far as the new album is concerned I haven't heard it yet but I'll listen to it later today.
I'm in the camp that SW's solo work never really clicked with me in the way that PT did and my thoughts are that PT as a band worked a lot better then SW solo. I realize that SW was completely in control but over the years those guys in PT had their sensibilities creep in a way that SW's solo work never has. This really became apparent to me when I went back and listened through his solo albums and took note that Raven was my favorite and that was largely due to the backing band having Guthrie and Marco. Yes it's a SW project, but those musicians brought his music up to a higher level.
Anyway those are my morning hungover ramblings.
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After catching up with the thread I definitely think was SW said in regard to EVH was in bad taste but wholly on par for SW. I listen to his podcast and he can seem pretentious at times but doesn't seem like an insufferable ass and IMO has lightened up a bit over the years.
As far as the new album is concerned I haven't heard it yet but I'll listen to it later today.
I'm in the camp that SW's solo work never really clicked with me in the way that PT did and my thoughts are that PT as a band worked a lot better then SW solo. I realize that SW was completely in control but over the years those guys in PT had their sensibilities creep in a way that SW's solo work never has. This really became apparent to me when I went back and listened through his solo albums and took note that Raven was my favorite and that was largely due to the backing band having Guthrie and Marco. Yes it's a SW project, but those musicians brought his music up to a higher level.
Anyway those are my morning hungover ramblings.
I figured you were still drunk since you basically went from "The other guys in PT usually made their presence known in the music unlike the guys in SW's solo band" to "Guthrie and Marco really put their mark on The Raven!!" in the same paragraph. :lol :P
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Speaking of Storm Corrosion, Akerfeldt, and collaboration.
https://www.loudersound.com/news/steven-wilson-discusses-possible-storm-corrosion-ii (https://www.loudersound.com/news/steven-wilson-discusses-possible-storm-corrosion-ii)
"I love that record," says Wilson of the side-project with Opeth's Mikael Akerfledt. That was another record that created a lot of controversy. I’m so proud of that record. Part of the reason we’re both proud of it is it was the last thing anyone expected us to do
"It’s perfect for 5.1 because there’s no drums. I’ve just done an Atmos mix of the album, because that’s an album that’s going to be ten years old next year as well. We did a great version of Drag Ropes at one of Albert Hall shows which we mixed.
"So that version’s been mixed, it sounds beautiful. The album is going to be remixed in Atmos. And I think we’re going to do a reissue of that. And that could be good time to do another record. Obviously, there’s a geographical issue. We can’t just get together on Tuesday nights and jam and we don’t want to do it by email. We did Storm Corrosion when we were in the same room at the same time the whole time we made that record, and we wouldn’t want to do a record any other way. I like to think we’ll do it eventually."
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People discussing his "guitar is not relevant anymore" comments so passionately: what Steven Wilson wants.
:iagree:
At least, I think I agree. I don't at all think Steven Wilson is opposed to technical proficiency on an instrument, even though he's primarily a song-writer. Real craft demands hard work, and making music is a craft. Playing an instrument (well) is one. This is me clutching at straws and guessing, but I think Steven Wilson wants the younger generation to pick up music.
And frankly, I think he's wrong, because even though you're not necessarily seeing it in the mainstream, there's so many people out there still playing and picking up the guitar. The guitar community online is huge. But what do I know.
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Speaking of Storm Corrosion, Akerfeldt, and collaboration.
https://www.loudersound.com/news/steven-wilson-discusses-possible-storm-corrosion-ii (https://www.loudersound.com/news/steven-wilson-discusses-possible-storm-corrosion-ii)
"I love that record," says Wilson of the side-project with Opeth's Mikael Akerfledt. That was another record that created a lot of controversy. I’m so proud of that record. Part of the reason we’re both proud of it is it was the last thing anyone expected us to do
"It’s perfect for 5.1 because there’s no drums. I’ve just done an Atmos mix of the album, because that’s an album that’s going to be ten years old next year as well. We did a great version of Drag Ropes at one of Albert Hall shows which we mixed.
"So that version’s been mixed, it sounds beautiful. The album is going to be remixed in Atmos. And I think we’re going to do a reissue of that. And that could be good time to do another record. Obviously, there’s a geographical issue. We can’t just get together on Tuesday nights and jam and we don’t want to do it by email. We did Storm Corrosion when we were in the same room at the same time the whole time we made that record, and we wouldn’t want to do a record any other way. I like to think we’ll do it eventually."
Hell yeah. Storm Corrosion is the best album Wilson or Akerfeldt did last decade so I'd be real excited for another one.
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SW can really be pretentious, but that is not so unusual in this environment. Releasing the same album in two different versions, one extended and the other abridged is pretentious.
Releasing concept albums, one after the other, is pretentious.
Prog rock is pretentious.
I think the problem is that SW doesn't really care about being a Mr. Nice Guy. :lol
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I don't really have a problem with "pretention" per se; I love Yes, for gosh sakes (nice capes, Rick and Chris!)
I don't really have a problem with "concepts" per se; The Lamb is probably top three Genesis album, and Clutching At Straws my favorite Marillion album (it's loose, but it's still a concept).
I don't really even have a problem with being a "nice guy". Robert Fripp never gave off the vibe of being a "nice guy".
I do have a problem with the perception of outright contempt for the fans/community. I watched "Beyond A Lighted Stage" yesterday, and there was a moment where Neil said "there was no pretension, we weren't pretending anything! We just figured our audience was as smart as we were and would figure it out." For all the criticisms you could level at guys like Fish, Gabriel, Anderson, Morse, even Portnoy (not a singer or lyricist, but certainly as one who drives the vision), it cannot be said that any of them felt their broader audience (as opposed to the hardcore ride or die fanbase) was stupid or incapable of forming opinions for themselves. I get that sense, true or not, from Steven Wilson.
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Yes, I'm sure that everyone can post a "problem I have with SW" daily and we would arrive in 2051 without having to repeat it.
But I have seen people here several times indicate that "SW or Daniel Gildenlöw are pretentious", and that this is inherently bad. And this in a group that "deifies" Neal Morse, Mike Portnoy, etc. In my view of things, it doesn't make any sense.
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I agree, Steven Wilson or any of those guys do not come across as insincere.
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I don't really have a problem with "pretention" per se; I love Yes, for gosh sakes (nice capes, Rick and Chris!)
I don't really have a problem with "concepts" per se; The Lamb is probably top three Genesis album, and Clutching At Straws my favorite Marillion album (it's loose, but it's still a concept).
I don't really even have a problem with being a "nice guy". Robert Fripp never gave off the vibe of being a "nice guy".
I do have a problem with the perception of outright contempt for the fans/community. I watched "Beyond A Lighted Stage" yesterday, and there was a moment where Neil said "there was no pretension, we weren't pretending anything! We just figured our audience was as smart as we were and would figure it out." For all the criticisms you could level at guys like Fish, Gabriel, Anderson, Morse, even Portnoy (not a singer or lyricist, but certainly as one who drives the vision), it cannot be said that any of them felt their broader audience (as opposed to the hardcore ride or die fanbase) was stupid or incapable of forming opinions for themselves. I get that sense, true or not, from Steven Wilson.
I agree with everything you said. This is what rubs me the wrong way about SW
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Download link for The Tastemaker if anyone's interested
https://alanlastufka.com/2021/02/10/steven-wilson-tastemaker-free-mp3-flac-download-streaming-audio/
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I finally checked out the album and it was alright, KING GHOST is my favorite off the album and probably one of my favorite SW solo tracks.
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(https://i.ibb.co/yyBRK0J/Captura-de-pantalla-2021-02-24-124157.png)
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Lol some people...
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The best part is they still bought it... :rollin
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Well, they may have bought it without hearing any of it first, there are some of us who still do that.
I know that if I had bought this album expecting to hear something in the same vein as To The Bone I would have been disappointed. I don't think I would have smashed it, thrown it in the trash and posted a picture of it online, but based on listening to the album once I know I'll never listen to it again.
I expected this, though since I really don't care for nearly 9 out of 10 songs he puts out.
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I've only listened to it once thus far, but I expect to give it it's fair share of listens. It just didn't grab me enough on first listen to immediately revisit it.
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Steven, Mikael, Portnoy and Devin would never actually agree to form a supergroup, but if they were absolutely forced to for some reason, I imagine it would go like this:
Steven and Mikael, being good friends, past collaborators, and the most similar in musical tastes, would immediately take the reigns and do whatever they'd want to do. They'd probably come up with something with a weird combination of influences that doesn't sound anything like conventional prog or even like Storm Corrosion (they've said if they were to do a follow-up to that album it would sound completely different). Portnoy would inevitably try to steer things in a more upbeat, proggy, or metal direction and likely get shot down by Steven and Mikael. In a repeat of the OSI sequence of events, he'd eventually give up, and in future interviews claim Steven and Mikael were "downers" and "difficult to work with" and that the project wasn't "what he hoped it would be".
Devin would be there. He'd play bass, sing on a few songs, maybe contribute a few musical ideas, but generally just sit back and let everyone else do their thing.
The album would be a disappointment to most people but it'd probably be quite good in its own weird way.
I don’t think Devin is the type to sit back at all. Even on the Ayreon album he did, he flat out refused to appear unless he got to write his own parts. I’m sure either he or Arjen said that Devin will not sing anything that someone else writes for him. The only time he did was on that Vai album he did for Steve Vai. I don’t think he hates that album and is still very friendly with Steve Vai but he has made comments before that he let other people control things back then as he was very young but would never give up control again.
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I don’t think Devin is the type to sit back at all. Even on the Ayreon album he did, he flat out refused to appear unless he got to write his own parts. I’m sure either he or Arjen said that Devin will not sing anything that someone else writes for him. The only time he did was on that Vai album he did for Steve Vai. I don’t think he hates that album and is still very friendly with Steve Vai but he has made comments before that he let other people control things back then as he was very young but would never give up control again.
I think he's mellowed out a lot since then. I know he's appeared as a guest on a handful of songs since (Ihsahn, Gojira, that project with Floor Jansen that I can't even remember the name of) and I doubt he wrote all the melodies and lyrics for those as well.
I could be wrong here but the dude has so many potential projects going on at any given point that him not having much input over something that isn't entirely "his" likely wouldn't bother him at all, since if he's really itching to get a musical idea out he can just hold onto it and use it somewhere else.
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The reason Steven and Mikael together makes sense outside them having worked together on Opeth albums in the past because they both share a love for weird music from the 60s/70s. If you go back to Heritage and Grace For Drowning you could sense a similar career path at the same time and it made sense for Storm Corrosion to become a thing.
Portnoy being linked to that 'supergroup' never made sense to me because he just feels so out of place in that situation. Steven and Mikael seem to have a very similar mindset and you add Portnoy and it suddenly feels very mismatched. I could see Devin with MP but not with SW or Mikael either. I think Steven and Mikael just don't seem to have much interest in what their peers are doing in progressive rock/metal and they have their other influences that unite them.
SW also seems like he wants to have a bit of space from the progressive rock/metal community and if you take something like the prog cruise for example, I couldn't even imagine SW doing that in my dreams.
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The reason Steven and Mikael together makes sense outside them having worked together on Opeth albums in the past because they both share a love for weird music from the 60s/70s. If you go back to Heritage and Grace For Drowning you could sense a similar career path at the same time and it made sense for Storm Corrosion to become a thing.
Portnoy being linked to that 'supergroup' never made sense to me because he just feels so out of place in that situation. Steven and Mikael seem to have a very similar mindset and you add Portnoy and it suddenly feels very mismatched. I could see Devin with MP but not with SW or Mikael either. I think Steven and Mikael just don't seem to have much interest in what their peers are doing in progressive rock/metal and they have their other influences that unite them.
SW also seems like he wants to have a bit of space from the progressive rock/metal community and if you take something like the prog cruise for example, I couldn't even imagine SW doing that in my dreams.
Yeah, I think Portnoy was looking to make a metal album with Akerfeldt and SW. They decided to go down a different route and therefore didn’t need him. He definitely wouldn’t be a fit for Storm Corrosion.
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"'Steven Wilson - Footprints' is an astoundingly detailed 3 volume illustrated encyclopaedia of my musical output, from my solo work to Porcupine Tree, no-man, Bass Communion and more. The effort and work that has gone into this by Guy M Tkach, Peter M Sieker and Chip Madinger is nothing short of astounding and I’m flattered they took on such a task and mightily impressed with what they have achieved. Check out the first volume at stevenwilson-footprints.com."
The first volume is about early years and Porcupine Tree.
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Richard Barbieri said that Steven seems to have changed his mind about the future of Porcupine Tree. They will probably record another album at some point in the future.
https://youtu.be/K2UqcXmpnZU
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"'Steven Wilson - Footprints' is an astoundingly detailed 3 volume illustrated encyclopaedia of my musical output, from my solo work to Porcupine Tree, no-man, Bass Communion and more. The effort and work that has gone into this by Guy M Tkach, Peter M Sieker and Chip Madinger is nothing short of astounding and I’m flattered they took on such a task and mightily impressed with what they have achieved. Check out the first volume at stevenwilson-footprints.com."
The first volume is about early years and Porcupine Tree.
This looks extremely interesting, but am I understanding correctly that this is basically an ebook?
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Richard Barbieri said that Steven seems to have changed his mind about the future of Porcupine Tree. They will probably record another album at some point in the future.
https://youtu.be/K2UqcXmpnZU
Why do I get the feeling someone's words got twisted and misinterpreted here :lol
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Richard Barbieri said that Steven seems to have changed his mind about the future of Porcupine Tree. They will probably record another album at some point in the future.
https://youtu.be/K2UqcXmpnZU
Why do I get the feeling someone's words got twisted and misinterpreted here :lol
Possibly. He would have said that in this interview: https://youtu.be/EnXVtDP0lKI
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Time stamps in these interviews would be helpful, in regards to the alleged PT thing. ;)
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Time stamps in these interviews would be helpful, in regards to the alleged PT thing. ;)
At around 12 minutes
https://youtu.be/K2UqcXmpnZU
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Steven himself said in an interview recently that a new Porcupine Tree album will probably appear out of nowhere in future.
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Time stamps in these interviews would be helpful, in regards to the alleged PT thing. ;)
At around 12 minutes
https://youtu.be/K2UqcXmpnZU
Got it. I see that Barbieri, like Wilson, wasn't overly thrilled with The Incident. I'd love to see them get back together if it's organic and natural (they are my 2nd all-time favorite band after all, behind Rush), not just because, hey, why not. One thing is for sure, all of those Wilson fans that went running for the hills because of The Future Bites would be pulling hamstrings doing that quick 360 to jump back on the SW bandwagon. :lol
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Time stamps in these interviews would be helpful, in regards to the alleged PT thing. ;)
At around 12 minutes
https://youtu.be/K2UqcXmpnZU
Got it. I see that Barbieri, like Wilson, wasn't overly thrilled with The Incident. I'd love to see them get back together if it's organic and natural (they are my 2nd all-time favorite band after all, behind Rush), not just because, hey, why not. One thing is for sure, all of those Wilson fans that went running for the hills because of The Future Bites would be pulling hamstrings doing that quick 360 to jump back on the SW bandwagon. :lol
It would be really funny if SW did bring PT back and their sound ended up sounding more like his recent solo stuff than classic mid-to-late PT. Could you imagine, like if it was a mixture of early PT (Radioactive Toy sort of stuff) and his sounds on TFB? I'm sure "the fans" would go ballistic! :lol
If there happens to be a sort of reunion album, I'll definitely have to keep my expectations in check, especially after over a decade of wondering whether or not it might happen.
-Marc.
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Time stamps in these interviews would be helpful, in regards to the alleged PT thing. ;)
At around 12 minutes
https://youtu.be/K2UqcXmpnZU
Got it. I see that Barbieri, like Wilson, wasn't overly thrilled with The Incident. I'd love to see them get back together if it's organic and natural (they are my 2nd all-time favorite band after all, behind Rush), not just because, hey, why not. One thing is for sure, all of those Wilson fans that went running for the hills because of The Future Bites would be pulling hamstrings doing that quick 360 to jump back on the SW bandwagon. :lol
It would be really funny if SW did bring PT back and their sound ended up sounding more like his recent solo stuff than classic mid-to-late PT. Could you imagine, like if it was a mixture of early PT (Radioactive Toy sort of stuff) and his sounds on TFB? I'm sure "the fans" would go ballistic! :lol
If there happens to be a sort of reunion album, I'll definitely have to keep my expectations in check, especially after over a decade of wondering whether or not it might happen.
-Marc.
You said it perfectly. I'd love to hear more PT but if it's similar to what he has been doing solo then it might not be my cup of tea.
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Time stamps in these interviews would be helpful, in regards to the alleged PT thing. ;)
At around 12 minutes
https://youtu.be/K2UqcXmpnZU
Got it. I see that Barbieri, like Wilson, wasn't overly thrilled with The Incident. I'd love to see them get back together if it's organic and natural (they are my 2nd all-time favorite band after all, behind Rush), not just because, hey, why not. One thing is for sure, all of those Wilson fans that went running for the hills because of The Future Bites would be pulling hamstrings doing that quick 360 to jump back on the SW bandwagon. :lol
It would be really funny if SW did bring PT back and their sound ended up sounding more like his recent solo stuff than classic mid-to-late PT. Could you imagine, like if it was a mixture of early PT (Radioactive Toy sort of stuff) and his sounds on TFB? I'm sure "the fans" would go ballistic! :lol
If there happens to be a sort of reunion album, I'll definitely have to keep my expectations in check, especially after over a decade of wondering whether or not it might happen.
-Marc.
I would laughing my ass off, and enjoying the live show with these new songs included.
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Even Wilson did decide to get PT back together, I wonder if Gavin Harrison would toss the Pineapple Thief in the trash heap to return to PT if the schedules conflicted. I suspect Porcupine Tree would be a better paying gig by a good distance, but it could be a one and done deal if Wilson decides to do one new album and tour and then disband it again, and Harrison may not want to burn the other bridge.
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There have been points in his solo career that I’ve actually had a tough time distinguishing.
If you could go back in time to 2008 and play Raven and HCE for my past self, and then tell me they were PT’s follow ups to Blank Planet, I would totally believe you.
EDIT - I would not say that about any of the other four of his solo albums
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Even Wilson did decide to get PT back together, I wonder if Gavin Harrison would toss the Pineapple Thief in the trash heap to return to PT if the schedules conflicted. I suspect Porcupine Tree would be a better paying gig by a good distance, but it could be a one and done deal if Wilson decides to do one new album and tour and then disband it again, and Harrison may not want to burn the other bridge.
I honestly could see Steven bringing in a new drummer for Porcupine Tree. After all, Gavin replaced Chris Maitland, so if any one position was changed, I think changing drummers might not be a horrible thing. Maybe he'd get Chris back? That would be quite the move, but I would imagine that might also influence the sound a bit. I think if Steven and Richard have talked about it, they're both definitely in and I'm sure Colin would be as well.
Of course, there are plenty of choices for drummers outside of Gavin and Chris - Marco Minnemann would be an obvious choice, but he seems pretty busy with his own stuff and with Randy McStine. There's also Craig Blundell, but it also seems like he is always busy with stuff as well (especially since bowing out of Frost*). I could hear Thomas Lang drumming for PT, I think his style could be a good fit for them.
No matter what, though, whoever sits on the drum throne for any kind of PT reunion, there will be disappointed fans, especially if it isn't Gavin Harrison.
-Marc.
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Did Minnemann have a falling out with Steven Wilson after H.C.E. was recorded? I vaguely remember something like that, though I could be confusing it with him whining about the DT drummer audition documentary. :P
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Did Minnemann have a falling out with Steven Wilson after H.C.E. was recorded? I vaguely remember something like that, though I could be confusing it with him whining about the DT drummer audition documentary. :P
Yes, they did have a fallout on some award (or Grammy for HCE). Something like that.
If I were Gavin, I would keep my toes in both bands. Steven is going to go solo after that next PT album/touring cycle that's potentially brewing. Gavin seems to be having more fun with Crimson and Pineapple than with PT (have seen Gavin will all 3 bands).
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I cannot imagine a new PT album without Gavin.
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I cannot imagine a new PT album without Gavin.
They made some of their best albums without him and there's more albums without him than with him. :P
If PT were to make a new album and tour I would imagine it would fit in with Gavin's schedule allowing him to do the PT stuff without leaving Pineapple Thief. I doubt a new PT album/tour would mean anything in the bigger sense, it would just be a side thing to SW's solo stuff anyways.
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Did Minnemann have a falling out with Steven Wilson after H.C.E. was recorded? I vaguely remember something like that, though I could be confusing it with him whining about the DT drummer audition documentary. :P
Yes he did, there's no way it would be Marco Minnemann lol. And there's no way they bring back PT without Gavin
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I like Chris Maitland's drumming but if PT reuinited and toured there's no way he'd be able to perform Gavin Harrison's stuff live, so they'd need someone else.
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I don't see a potential PT reunion as such a big commitment like f.e. joining Dream Theater. I think Bruce Soord and Steven Wilson know each other and I'm sure they could communicate to make their time schedules work for everyone.
If Steven Wilson makes a Porcupine Tree album without Gavin Harrison, I will freak out and break everything around me.
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No Gav, no buy for me. Easy as that. (he is one of my heroes)
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At this point, all the guys are considered a part of Porcupine Tree. Porcupine Tree is Gavin, Steven, Richard and Colin. To me, Porcupine Tree is established as one of those bands where it's all the members or bust. I would add John as well, as the 5th member live, he adds a whole lot to their sound live, one song he does this is in Way Out Of Here.
And you notice this difference if you watch Arriving Somewhere But Not Here played live by Stevens solo band. It just isn't the same without Colin, Richard, and Gavin.
But...I also wouldn't mind if Gavin couldn't for whatever reason, and they found a different drummer. All that would matter is if they are able to pull off Gavins complex parts, like The Pills I'm Taking, or pretty much all of Anesthetize. :lol
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I would add John as well, as the 5th member live, he adds a whole lot to their sound live, one song he does this is in Way Out Of Here.
I was hoping that John would be added as a permanent member of the band after The Incident.
You need to listen to this version of Fadeaway with John: https://youtu.be/dfoUm_A3pqg (https://youtu.be/dfoUm_A3pqg)
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John Wesley not working with SW anymore was the best thing about him disbanding PT a decade ago. Watching his brutally bad renditions of SW's original guitar solos got too much to take. If PT does get back together and tour, here's hoping they find a different 5th live member.
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John Wesley not working with SW anymore was the best thing about him disbanding PT a decade ago. Watching his brutally bad renditions of SW's original guitar solos got too much to take. If PT does get back together and tour, here's hoping they find a different 5th live member.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has this opinion. I was never a fan of John Wesley in Porcupine Tree. One of the biggest improvements from PT to Steven' solo live bands was the inclusion of a good lead guitarist. I also saw Wesley as support for Marillion in Utrecht and his performance didn't do anything for me.
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I think Wesley was solid for backing vocals and even did a good job with main vocals for some songs. When it comes to his guitar playing it didn't really stand out either way for me until Dark Matter where it just felt like such a botched version of the best PT song.
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Steven himself said in an interview recently that a new Porcupine Tree album will probably appear out of nowhere in future.
this interview?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnXVtDP0lKI
15:19 he mentions it
https://youtu.be/EnXVtDP0lKI?t=919
among other topics in that interview, he talks about a Book he's writing that is anticipated to come out this Summer.
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John Wesley not working with SW anymore was the best thing about him disbanding PT a decade ago. Watching his brutally bad renditions of SW's original guitar solos got too much to take. If PT does get back together and tour, here's hoping they find a different 5th live member.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has this opinion. I was never a fan of John Wesley in Porcupine Tree. One of the biggest improvements from PT to Steven' solo live bands was the inclusion of a good lead guitarist. I also saw Wesley as support for Marillion in Utrecht and his performance didn't do anything for me.
I've seen John Wesley I think three times with Fish and Marillion, and on paper I should love him, but his art does nothing for me.
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Steven himself said in an interview recently that a new Porcupine Tree album will probably appear out of nowhere in future.
this interview?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnXVtDP0lKI
15:19 he mentions it
https://youtu.be/EnXVtDP0lKI?t=919
among other topics in that interview, he talks about a Book he's writing that is anticipated to come out this Summer.
Yup, that's the one! Really good interview.
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I've seen John Wesley I think three times with Fish and Marillion, and on paper I should love him, but his art does nothing for me.
Interesting take Stads. I love all of John Wesley's solo stuff. Love his lyrics/voice, his guitar phrasing, etc.
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Steven himself said in an interview recently that a new Porcupine Tree album will probably appear out of nowhere in future.
Sounds like the band Blur. About a new album, the singer was very vague and said contrasting statements, then SURPRISE! They've been working on it the whole time.
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Steven himself said in an interview recently that a new Porcupine Tree album will probably appear out of nowhere in future.
Sounds like the band Blur. About a new album, the singer was very vague and said contrasting statements, then SURPRISE! They've been working on it the whole time.
Maybe PT has been working on it during the pandemic and keeping it hush hush. That would be awesome if that's the case!
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I'm kind of ambivalent about Porcupine Tree (although they did write one of my favourite ever songs, Arriving Somewhere) but I can absolutely see that having happened.
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The tour vinyl edition of The Future Bites finally arrived. There had been no communication here and I have only seen some German remarks about that it wasn't what was promised (black vinyl). I got a silver vinyl with a red 7". The whole package is great, but I assume it is largely the same as the base vinyl edition (with the book and all).
I am also happy to say that I still like the album. The only song I don't like is King Ghost, I just hate that falsetto chorus to an increasing degree.
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The whole tour has been cancelled, alas.
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Sadly for the second time I am forced to postpone my tour to promote THE FUTURE BITES - the rescheduled dates were due to begin in September. While recent developments made me at least optimistic that the UK shows might have been able to go ahead (though no guarantee), the same is not true of much of the rest of Europe. With it now clear that it would not have been possible to proceed with many of the shows I have reluctantly made the decision to cancel the whole tour. As a solo artist so many of my expenses are in advance, rehearsal and musician costs, developing the production, so to then only be able to perform a handful of shows at best would simply not have been financially feasible. Once again I must apologise for the disappointment and any inconvenience caused.
I plan to use the time creatively and to complete and release 2 new albums I have in progress in 2022 and 2023 respectively. With that in mind it makes more sense for me to now look forward to touring these albums instead, and to incorporate the TFB ideas and songs.
In the meantime there is more TFB related music on the way over the coming months in the form of some fantastic remixes and a release for the song ANYONE BUT ME, which was originally the closing track on the album but which I replaced with COUNT OF UNEASE. Right now I’m also working hard to finish my book which will be published later this year by Little, Brown and Company - news on all this soon.
The world is totally messed up at the moment, and the cancellation of my tour is not especially significant in the grand scheme of things, all the same I was very excited to be finally getting out there and interacting with real musicians in front of a real audience again, so this is a real blow.
Thanks again for your understanding and patience. S x
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That was to be expected yeah.
In The Netherlands the government announced a plan that event organisers can get up to about 80% of the costs back if a event has to be cancelled (they reseverved 385 million euros for it), in order to stimulate the industry with a safety net. I hope this plan pays off and hopefully we will see some succesful events here this summer. But the rules and plans between all nations are very different, so for international artists to plan a tour is just not feasible
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This is actually a good call. If the tour has been postponed for the second time, you might as well make a new album and promote that one on the following tour rather than promoting an album from two years ago.
If the tour does happen next year, that is.
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I plan to use the time creatively and to complete and release 2 new albums I have in progress in 2022 and 2023 respectively.
That's pretty exciting. Between TFB and these two at least one of those albums has to be good, right? :neverusethis:
I'm being an asshole. TFB just didn't do much of anything for me so if these albums are a step up they should make up for it.
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I am also happy to say that I still like the album. The only song I don't like is King Ghost, I just hate that falsetto chorus to an increasing degree.
Funny how tastes are different, I think King Ghost is the best track of TFB and one of the best songs of SW's solo career.
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That song is really good. The part that brings it down a notch is the high pitched falseto near the end of the chorus. It just sounds ridiculous to me.
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I think the majority of that song is actually pretty great, but the chorus just sounds really bad to me, dragging the entire thing down. As I have said before I think his falsetto is pretty bad, but it usually does not detract much. But King Ghost is the only song where it actually has a nail on chalkboard effect for me.
I know many people rank that as one of the best songs of the album though. I wish the vocals did not bother me that much.
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I like his falsetto! King Ghost and the ending of Man of the People are absolutely the highlights of the record for me. That and extended Unself version.
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As I have said before I think his falsetto is pretty bad, but it usually does not detract much. But King Ghost is the only song where it actually has a nail on chalkboard effect for me.
Weird; I'm the total opposite. I think it fits really well on King Ghost, whereas on songs like The Same Asylum As Before it's incredibly obnoxious.
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New video from "The Future Bites Sessions"
https://youtu.be/Lq1r57ewdAY
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If by using the time creatively he means creating more of what's on TFB that's going to be a hard pass.
If he ever makes another album like In Absentia, Deadwing, Hand.Cannot.Erase or The Raven Who Refused to Sing I am totally down with that. But the rest of his stuff and especially this electronic noise stuff and his incessant use of falsetto, I'd really rather listen to my fingernails growing.
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I think at this point, him making a prog rock album next would feel like him giving up and throwing in the towel to cater to the fans. I didn't necessarily think TFB was amazing or anything (but then again neither was the couple of albums before it) but I'll gladly take an artist doing something that makes them excited than doing what the fans want. That's always a creative graveyard in my opinion.
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I wouldn't want him to return to 70's prog rock either - that's never what made Steven Wilson appealing to me and I'm honestly a bit disheartened that such a large portion of his fanbase views TRTRTS as his crowning achievement as to me that's one of the least "Steven Wilson" albums he's ever done.
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It's interesting how opinions can differ because I have absolutely no use for anything of his other than those 4 albums I mentioned. The rest is like valium to me.
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I wouldn't want him to return to 70's prog rock either - that's never what made Steven Wilson appealing to me and I'm honestly a bit disheartened that such a large portion of his fanbase views TRTRTS as his crowning achievement as to me that's one of the least "Steven Wilson" albums he's ever done.
Not just that, it's arguably his least original album by far. Though it's not that surprising to me that prog fans hold it in high regard because prog rock in general has had a draught of new ideas for a while and it seems what pleases people the most is making the music of 50 years ago again. :/
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I think at this point, him making a prog rock album next would feel like him giving up and throwing in the towel to cater to the fans. I didn't necessarily think TFB was amazing or anything (but then again neither was the couple of albums before it) but I'll gladly take an artist doing something that makes them excited than doing what the fans want. That's always a creative graveyard in my opinion.
So, by this logic if Steven Wilson makes his next album a recording of the sound of him scratching his nuts you'll "gladly take" that over a new album of actual music because he might have made the music to please the fans?
I find that mindset utterly baffling.
I'm the consumer. I'm not his sugar daddy. If he doesn't put out a product I like, then I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut how much he enjoys yodeling into a microphone over electronic noises I ain't gonna spend my hard-earned money on it just because HE enjoyed making it. I'm not paying him for HIS enjoyment, I'm paying him for MY enjoyment.
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I mean for what it's worth I think H.C.E. is easily his best solo album and In Absentia and Deadwing are easily in the top 3 Porcupine Tree albums, with FOABP being #1. The only one of those album's I'd consider 70s-sounding is H.C.E. but compared to TRTRTS those influences are balanced much better with more modern sounds and Steven Wilson's more recognizable characteristics.
I'm with Zantera in that I want Steven to make what he wants. That doesn't mean everything he makes will be good, just like always doing what the fans want doesn't mean everything he makes will be good. I didn't buy TFB because I just didn't like it very much. That doesn't mean I want him to stop experimenting and trying new things.
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I think at this point, him making a prog rock album next would feel like him giving up and throwing in the towel to cater to the fans. I didn't necessarily think TFB was amazing or anything (but then again neither was the couple of albums before it) but I'll gladly take an artist doing something that makes them excited than doing what the fans want. That's always a creative graveyard in my opinion.
So, by this logic if Steven Wilson makes his next album a recording of the sound of him scratching his nuts you'll "gladly take" that over a new album of actual music because he might have made the music to please the fans?
I find that mindset utterly baffling.
I'm the consumer. I'm not his sugar daddy. If he doesn't put out a product I like, then I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut how much he enjoys yodeling into a microphone over electronic noises I ain't gonna spend my hard-earned money on it just because HE enjoyed making it. I'm not paying him for HIS enjoyment, I'm paying him for MY enjoyment.
But you don't have to pay for the product if it's not something you want though. There's been albums where it felt like the heart and soul wasn't in it and perhaps it was made to please the fans or keep the ball rolling, and it always feels quite clear to me. The Incident has that feel, whether intentional or not - I wouldn't say it's a bad album, but it came out at a time when PT had pretty much reached their end creatively, SW had already started on solo stuff and no matter what album you prefer, Insurgentes just feels like much more of a passion project that he had his soul into than The Incident.
Like I said earlier about The Future Bites, I don't particularly feel that strong about it either way (same as To the Bone and HCE) but it's interesting to hear him try new things and not be treading waters as an artist. There's plenty of bands and artists who keep putting out the same album over and over for 20-30-40 years and it's refreshing with the ones who have higher ambitions or show the courage to try new things. SW could easily stick to putting out prog album after prog album and worship the 70s bands and a lot of people would eat that up but he has the potential for more.
I always thought it was weird around Raven's release when people started talking about SW as a master musician following his least original album that pretty much ripped off what others did better 40 years earlier. At least with albums like To the Bone and Future Bites he's trying to do new things for himself and it's not all perfect but it's a lot more admirable than Raven part 2 or HCE part 2.
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My least favorite SW albums are Deadwing, The Raven, and GfD so I'm hoping he never returns to those styles again (which I'm sure he won't considering how non-interested in anything prog/metal he seems to be at the moment). The Future Bites feels very fresh and interesting to me and I'd love him to do something more along those lines with whatever new influences he can intermix. It actually reminds me of Up The Downstair and Voyage 34, both of which I hold in very high regard.
As far as I'm concerned, if the only things he ever released were In Absentia, Insurgentes, Signify, To The Bone, and The Future Bites then I'd still rank him very high on my list of favorites. He can do whatever the hell he wants at this point and his overall catalog will still remain very strong.
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I think that's an age thing. The younger generation likes the electronica while the older generation are into the organic instrumentation.
I like a mix of both. I'm not head over heels for TFB but that's not stopping me from following him. It just gets played less.
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I'm sure the new albums will be totally different. He seems to pride himself most with not repeating himself - so I would NOT expect another TFB - which is fine by me as it's my least favorite of his solo works by a mile. So I'm hoping it's something new and fresh that will hold my interest.
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I think that's an age thing. The younger generation likes the electronica while the older generation are into the organic instrumentation.
I'm the younger generation (to most of you, anyways :P) and I like electronica and I don't think TFB is a very good execution of it. :lol
Maybe if he continues in that direction for these next couple albums the results will get better. There's been several songs that prove he can do electronic music well enough.
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I agree. I love when he mixes it together. Still, I love that he doesn't sit still.
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I will repeat a point I have made prior: Steven Wilson has enough equity built up with me that he is an auto-buy until further notice. He would have to have multiple misfires for me to consider jumping ship. And I do not consider The Future Bites a misfire by any stretch of the imagination, merely a good album following a loooong string of great albums (when looking at his main project releases, PT for 20 years and now his solo albums). And I suspect that most who are not wild about The Future Bites will still check out whatever his next solo album is. Even if you only like a few albums, you are always chasing that high in the hopes that the artist will knock another out of the park for ya. It's why some of us still check out new Metallica stuff even though their last great album (according to many) was 30 years ago. And given the easy access we have to music nowadays, it is easy to give something new a quick listen and then move on if it's not to your immediate liking.
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I think that's an age thing. The younger generation likes the electronica while the older generation are into the organic instrumentation.
I like a mix of both. I'm not head over heels for TFB but that's not stopping me from following him. It just gets played less.
I am not sure. I am listening to artists like Kraftwerk and the classics from those artists were released way before I was born. I am sure those records were popular back then as well, at least to some degree.
For me personally Wilson's music is upper tier when talking prog/rock artists and not quite there when talking electronics, but I most certainly like it.
Just turned 31 so I am probably neither part of the envisioned younger generation or older generation though.
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At least in my circles Kraftwerk was not popular at all. I'm 53 and grew up in the late 70's and 80's for music.
Sure I'd read their name in magazines but never heard their music back then.
It may have been different in Europe though.
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At least in my circles Kraftwerk was not popular at all. I'm 53 and grew up in the late 70's and 80's for music.
Sure I'd read their name in magazines but never heard their music back then.
It may have been different in Europe though.
very much different IMHO, at least in Germany and in France. They were pioneers.
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At least in my circles Kraftwerk was not popular at all. I'm 53 and grew up in the late 70's and 80's for music.
Sure I'd read their name in magazines but never heard their music back then.
It may have been different in Europe though.
very much different IMHO, at least in Germany and in France. They were pioneers.
And I did read that later on. Funny how some bands do not translate in other countries. A band m=now I love that only toured the States once is "The Feeling."
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I think at this point, him making a prog rock album next would feel like him giving up and throwing in the towel to cater to the fans. I didn't necessarily think TFB was amazing or anything (but then again neither was the couple of albums before it) but I'll gladly take an artist doing something that makes them excited than doing what the fans want. That's always a creative graveyard in my opinion.
So, by this logic if Steven Wilson makes his next album a recording of the sound of him scratching his nuts you'll "gladly take" that over a new album of actual music because he might have made the music to please the fans?
I find that mindset utterly baffling.
I'm the consumer. I'm not his sugar daddy. If he doesn't put out a product I like, then I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut how much he enjoys yodeling into a microphone over electronic noises I ain't gonna spend my hard-earned money on it just because HE enjoyed making it. I'm not paying him for HIS enjoyment, I'm paying him for MY enjoyment.
I'm totally with Zantera on this. I find that the moment artists start to just put out music to please the majority of fans, then their heart isn't in it and the music suffers. I'd always rather a band follow their creative flow, even if it upsets some fans. As long as they are invested in it and want to evolve their sound, that's all that matters.
I know I've brought up Devin Townsend in this thread previously, but he is the perfect example. If he did what a lot his 'fans' from his Strapping Young Lad days (who are generally living in the past, and pretty one dimensional) want him to do, then he'd still just be releasing extreme metal albums, and hating every minute of it. We'd never have received a sci fi rock opera about an alien coming to earth to acquire the ultimate cup of coffee! Devin does exactly what he wants and follows his passion. Do I love it all, no. Do I appreciate it all for what it is, yes. I'd much rather he do that then try to re create old albums. Fuck that.
Kirksnosehair, I can't help but read your post and assume you are trolling, as I find it baffling that you would just want him to retread old ground and resign to putting out prog rock albums,in a style that has been done to death. You are joking right?
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No he's serious. He's never been one to joke around like myself. Sometimes people have strong opinions that don't align with other's taste. I'm bwith you that a musician makes the music he or she wants to but it doesn't mean the fanbase will follow. That is evident with Rush fans. The "heads" from the early days wish Rush stayed at 2112. Some call Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures sellouts. Some do not like the keyboard era. Some like me followed it all.
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At least in my circles Kraftwerk was not popular at all. I'm 53 and grew up in the late 70's and 80's for music.
Sure I'd read their name in magazines but never heard their music back then.
It may have been different in Europe though.
I think there for sure are bound to be some (big) differences between the EU and the US (and between EU countries) on that front.
I know quite a bit of "old" folks well into their 50's that have always been fans of electronic music (as broad as that term is, because offcourse electronic music covers a loooot of genres and subgenres). Especially disco. When shopping vinyl, some stores have large sections of 70's-80's electronic records in their used stands.
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I think one reason so many people seem to like HCE so much is because its the most like a PT album out of his solo albums. And I think that's partially a reason he's moved away from that style because if that's what he wanted to do, he could just have stayed with PT.
The Future Bites feels closer to Insurgentes, or parts of Grace where it's something very different for SW and I think this is why he wanted to go solo in the first place. The freedom to do whatever.
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Absolutely. Not confined to one style. I look at it like Bowie. Some albums I loved more than others in his discography. I never knew what was next from him. Always moving musically.
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For me personally Wilson's music is upper tier when talking prog/rock artists and not quite there when talking electronics,
I think this is a good point. While I applaud him for not staying stagnate and trying new things. IMO, he does prog rock REALLY well. Other styles, not so much.
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I think at this point, him making a prog rock album next would feel like him giving up and throwing in the towel to cater to the fans. I didn't necessarily think TFB was amazing or anything (but then again neither was the couple of albums before it) but I'll gladly take an artist doing something that makes them excited than doing what the fans want. That's always a creative graveyard in my opinion.
So, by this logic if Steven Wilson makes his next album a recording of the sound of him scratching his nuts you'll "gladly take" that over a new album of actual music because he might have made the music to please the fans?
I find that mindset utterly baffling.
I'm the consumer. I'm not his sugar daddy. If he doesn't put out a product I like, then I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut how much he enjoys yodeling into a microphone over electronic noises I ain't gonna spend my hard-earned money on it just because HE enjoyed making it. I'm not paying him for HIS enjoyment, I'm paying him for MY enjoyment.
But you don't have to pay for the product if it's not something you want though. There's been albums where it felt like the heart and soul wasn't in it and perhaps it was made to please the fans or keep the ball rolling, and it always feels quite clear to me. The Incident has that feel, whether intentional or not - I wouldn't say it's a bad album, but it came out at a time when PT had pretty much reached their end creatively, SW had already started on solo stuff and no matter what album you prefer, Insurgentes just feels like much more of a passion project that he had his soul into than The Incident.
Like I said earlier about The Future Bites, I don't particularly feel that strong about it either way (same as To the Bone and HCE) but it's interesting to hear him try new things and not be treading waters as an artist. There's plenty of bands and artists who keep putting out the same album over and over for 20-30-40 years and it's refreshing with the ones who have higher ambitions or show the courage to try new things. SW could easily stick to putting out prog album after prog album and worship the 70s bands and a lot of people would eat that up but he has the potential for more.
I always thought it was weird around Raven's release when people started talking about SW as a master musician following his least original album that pretty much ripped off what others did better 40 years earlier. At least with albums like To the Bone and Future Bites he's trying to do new things for himself and it's not all perfect but it's a lot more admirable than Raven part 2 or HCE part 2.
2 things:
1. I am sorry for the tone of that post. I won't edit it, because then this apology won't mean anything but reading it back it came across like I was berating you and I did not intend it that way so I am sorry if you were taken aback by it.
2. What I meant to say is this: I have no problem whatsoever with ANY artist who wants to try new things and branch out into different styles and such. Hell, one of my all-time favorite metal guys from back in the day was Gary Moore and imagine my surprise when he literally flipped a switch and stopped doing metal albums and started doing straight up blues albums. I was fucking HORRIFIED! :lol But eventually I started buying some of his blues albums and while I think he had a tendency to overplay his blues solos a little bit, he wrote some great, great songs.
So, I don't really have a problem with bands changing what they do, but just because I'm a fan of ____________________ doesn't mean I am going to just buy up everything they release until death do us part. The day Dream Theater releases a Beer Barrel Polka album is the day I climb down off the bandwagon. Now as far as Steven Wilson goes, as I've mentioned in many places I have no use for about 80% of his output, but for a while there it seemed like he was moving in a direction that I REALLY liked a lot. The Raven was the first solo album of his that I actually enjoyed and could listen to start to finish without having to skip through any of it. Hand.Cannot.Erase. was even better and then To The Bone was a bit of a jump down in terms of my enjoyment but if he had stayed on this trajectory I may have come along for the ride, but this new style where he sings in falsetto over electronic noises? Nope. Sorry. Hard pass. It's not for me.
Now that DOES NOT mean I want him to keep making HCE or TRWRTS over and over. But see, the thing is, I don't listen to Steven Wilson because I like falsetto vocals over electronic noise. I listen to (some) Steven Wilson because he has the ability to write music that I could connect with. Falsetto over electronica? If you asked me to think of the worst case scenario for a change in styles, this comes pretty damned close. I am, frankly, flabbergasted that anyone likes any of it.
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“Well I know they’ve always told you selfishness was wrong.
Yet it was for me, not you, I came to write this song.”
- Neil Peart (RIP)
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I get where most are coming from here. As a fan, of course you want artists to release music you like, but even though I have no problem saying, "I wish this band would have done this or that" :lol, ultimately artists shouldn't give a damn about what I or any other fans want when it comes to creating their art. There is something exciting and fun about following an artist that has a new release coming out and knowing it could be something different or surprising. Some of my favorite albums ever are ones that threw me off at first because of how different they were than what came before them (Awake and Promised Land are two great examples), which can take some adjusting.
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Can't say I agree with that at all. I give a whole bunch of damns whether or not the fans enjoy my work. I certainly ain't making music to piss people off or make them not want to buy my next album so whole I get the while "critics be damned" thing and I even support that, I think ultimately I am creating a product and hopefully a product that people not only like but would want to hear more of it. I have worked with novices and professionals alike I can tell you with 100% certainty that every artist I've ever worked with who was putting out original music was absolutely definitely positively without a shred of a doubt hoping that the fans like it.
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To clarify, of course the artists want fans to like their work, but that doesn't mean they should let what they think the fans might or might not like affect their decision making when it comes to the completion or a song or album. That is what I mean, and more in a big picture kind of way. To repeat a point I have made a few times over the years, I think it was Rudess or Portnoy who said how cool it was to do Liquid Dreams on the LTE2 album since that was, in their words, "a song we could never have done in Dream Theater." Why the hell not? It is your band! You can do anything you want.
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I get where most are coming from here. As a fan, of course you want artists to release music you like, but even though I have no problem saying, "I wish this band would have done this or that" :lol, ultimately artists shouldn't give a damn about what I or any other fans want when it comes to creating their art. There is something exciting and fun about following an artist that has a new release coming out and knowing it could be something different or surprising. Some of my favorite albums ever are ones that threw me off at first because of how different they were than what came before them (Awake and Promised Land are two great examples), which can take some adjusting.
It's a main reason why I don't really expect anything from a bands new release. I do have speculations based on what they say, like Mangini's comments. But, I don't really expect those speculations to come to fruition from the band.
For me, I'm a concept guy, and pretty much enjoy any concept album. I have enjoyed most of what I have listened to. I enjoy The Future Bites, because of the way Stephen utilized the electronic elements while showing his influences with Prince, and the 80's pop. This plays well into the Robotic Consumerism the concept is about. The rhythms, and grooves, I also like.
I do not get this enjoyment from Insurgentes or Grace For Drowning. I do like the songs on those albums, but as a whole I can't listen to them. And that is due to how the album as a whole feels, and the tone gives off. Nothing wrong with the songs themselves.
Can't say I agree with that at all. I give a whole bunch of damns whether or not the fans enjoy my work. I certainly ain't making music to piss people off or make them not want to buy my next album so whole I get the while "critics be damned" thing and I even support that, I think ultimately I am creating a product and hopefully a product that people not only like but would want to hear more of it. I have worked with novices and professionals alike I can tell you with 100% certainty that every artist I've ever worked with who was putting out original music was absolutely definitely positively without a shred of a doubt hoping that the fans like it.
Oh yeah, I have had many great conversations with band members at their merch tables before. They are always pleased to get that acknowledgement at the shows they play. Some of the cd's I have I bought at the shows after the band played their set. I let them know I liked their set, and try to remember what part of the set I liked and ask them what the song was called. Usually, they'll point to the album if they have it, and I'll buy those ones. I am sure, if they would've came back more this way, I would've got to know them more and get acquainted with them. It's neat seeing bands go from the little venue here where I can easily do this, to the next big venue where it's harder, and just grow from there.
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To clarify, of course the artists want fans to like their work, but that doesn't mean they should let what they think the fans might or might not like affect their decision making when it comes to the completion or a song or album. That is what I mean, and more in a big picture kind of way. To repeat a point I have made a few times over the years, I think it was Rudess or Portnoy who said how cool it was to do Liquid Dreams on the LTE2 album since that was, in their words, "a song we could never have done in Dream Theater." Why the hell not? It is your band! You can do anything you want.
There could be many reasons. Label wise, and even something like them having that..."This riff isn't really Dream Theater to me" mentality. And I think that is JP's mentality, but for all we know it could be JM's mentality also, that's why he's the ninja. :biggrin:
I agree though, a band shouldn't give a damn about what their fans think about their music. but, they're not stupid and know that the music listener or "fans" do not think that way at all, and would feel betrayed and forsaken if they were to go completely off the rails. One great example is Opeth.
Also, Liquid Dreams is one of my Faves.
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There could be many reasons. Label wise, and even something like them having that..."This riff isn't really Dream Theater to me" mentality. And I think that is JP's mentality, but for all we know it could be JM's mentality also, that's why he's the ninja. :biggrin:
I agree though, a band shouldn't give a damn about what their fans think about their music. but, they're not stupid and know that the music listener or "fans" do not think that way at all, and would feel betrayed and forsaken if they were to go completely off the rails. One great example is Opeth.
Also, Liquid Dreams is one of my Faves.
Yep, making music is a business, I get it. No one wants to be a starving artist yelling, "But I get to do whatever I want, and I don't care what anyone thinks!"
And to reiterate, in case I didn't word my posts as well as I could have, I am not saying bands should not give a damn what the fans think. I am saying bands should not let what the fans want dictate their artistic direction.
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I am not saying bands should not give a damn what the fans think. I am saying bands should not let what the fans want dictate their artistic direction.
:clap:
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I am not saying bands should not give a damn what the fans think. I am saying bands should not let what the fans want dictate their artistic direction.
:clap:
:clap:
This. The first time I heard The Astonishing I thought "hmm, they are going to be criticized a lot". If I knew that, evidently John Petrucci did too, after all he is not stupid. But that didn't stop him from making the record he wanted to make.
If I were an artist and my fans said that they are paying me and for that I need to deliver what they want, I would say "where do you think you are, in a brothel? If you don't like my work, don't buy it and stop piss me off. " Fortunately I am not an artist and I have no fans. :lol
Of course we as fans complain when we don't like it, we do that. For example, I regret that the Haken I met via The Mountain became the band that it is today. But this is my problem, not Haken's. If Haken became a band that I don't like and I don't expect anything else, there are a lot of people happy and enjoying the sound they are making.
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I think one reason so many people seem to like HCE so much is because its the most like a PT album out of his solo albums.
The solo album that sounds the most like a PT album to me is Insurgentes, actually. There's not really a single song on there that'd sound super out of place on a post-Lightbulb Sun PT album. HCE does have a lot of parts that remind me of PT but there's still a lot of aggressive 70s elements leftover from the previous album.
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I think one reason so many people seem to like HCE so much is because its the most like a PT album out of his solo albums.
The solo album that sounds the most like a PT album to me is Insurgentes, actually. There's not really a single song on there that'd sound super out of place on a post-Lightbulb Sun PT album. HCE does have a lot of parts that remind me of PT but there's still a lot of aggressive 70s elements leftover from the previous album.
That interesting. I always thought Insurgentes would be too drone-influenced/experimental to be a PT album. But the drumming reminds of PT (duh). But Abandoner or Salvaging would be super out of place on most post-Lightbulb Sun albums in my opinion.
I think, apart from Permanating and the jazzy/fusiony guitar solo in Detonation, To The Bone is actually not that far away from albums like In Absentia, Stupid Dream and Lightbulb Sun.
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There could be many reasons. Label wise, and even something like them having that..."This riff isn't really Dream Theater to me" mentality. And I think that is JP's mentality, but for all we know it could be JM's mentality also, that's why he's the ninja. :biggrin:
I agree though, a band shouldn't give a damn about what their fans think about their music. but, they're not stupid and know that the music listener or "fans" do not think that way at all, and would feel betrayed and forsaken if they were to go completely off the rails. One great example is Opeth.
Also, Liquid Dreams is one of my Faves.
Yep, making music is a business, I get it. No one wants to be a starving artist yelling, "But I get to do whatever I want, and I don't care what anyone thinks!"
And to reiterate, in case I didn't word my posts as well as I could have, I am not saying bands should not give a damn what the fans think. I am saying bands should not let what the fans want dictate their artistic direction.
On that we agree. They should not let the fans dictate their artistic direction.
But by the same token they should not be surprised when they make 10 "rock and roll" records in a row then receive a negative response from some fans after releasing album #11 as an "accordion and tuba disco" album.
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I feel like when it comes down to it, people for the most part only mind the changing of styles if they don't like the direction it goes in. There's other bands like Anathema or Opeth who have changed styles and some have been upset by it but it's also gained them a lot of new fans.
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That's normal though for any band with longevity. Some fans jump ship. Other join the ship with the style change. Some stick around.
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It's a risk for established artists like Opeth. I don't know what the record sales have been like for them, but it would be interesting to see what kind of impact the change from Death Metal to Retro Prog had on their album sales. I stuck around with Opeth because, yes, I do like the direction they went in.
Steven Wilson...completely different animal. I have no use for the bulk of his music anyway. The thing that's disappointing to me is the fact that he made 3 records in a row that I thought were excellent, excellent and good. That's The Raven, Hand.Cannot.Erase and To The Bone respectively. The first two are awesome, the third one is decent. Now he's back to making music I have absolutely no use for. I had hoped he'd keep going with the kind of thing he was doing especially with HCE, which is my favorite of those three. In fact, to me that's his best solo album. But I guess he's done with guitar now, so I'm done with him.
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That's the cool thing with opinions, for me personally HCE is probably my least favorite solo album of his. Just feels like another PT album and aside from Routine, a lot of the tracks have that 'been there done that before' feeling. The Future Bites is interesting because it's different but ultimately there's not too many standouts on it that reach SW's highest tier of songs. (Then again I have that same issue with To the Bone and HCE)
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I feel like when it comes down to it, people for the most part only mind the changing of styles if they don't like the direction it goes in. There's other bands like Anathema or Opeth who have changed styles and some have been upset by it but it's also gained them a lot of new fans.
Very true. There are still fans of their 90's music who are still pissing and moaning about the direction Radiohead took with Kid A, but for those who loved the quick left turn they made, and there were a lot of people in that category, it made them even more awesome, and even though OK Computer remains their most iconic and biggest selling album, their popularity didn't suffer over the long haul.
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The Nile Rodgers Remix of Personal Shopper is better than the album version.
A bit more Funk added in makes it more Groovy and makes me want to dance more. Reminds me of Rick James now.
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The Nile Rodgers Remix of Personal Shopper is better than the album version.
A bit more Funk added in makes it more Groovy and makes me want to dance more. Reminds me of Rick James now.
Any Niles Rodgers remix of anything is likely better than the album version.
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The Nile Rodgers Remix of Personal Shopper is better than the album version.
A bit more Funk added in makes it more Groovy and makes me want to dance more. Reminds me of Rick James now.
Any Niles Rodgers remix of anything is likely better than the album version.
Of course. This album and Personal Shopper just called for it. And Steven is happy as well he did.
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I like the album version of Personal Shopper, and really like the "Consumer of life..." bridge (classic SW vocal melodies there!), but I am not wild about the fact that this song takes up so much of the album running time. Again, I like the song, but not as much as almost every other song on the album (plus a bunch of the extras).
Self, Man of the People and Follower are all still highly enjoyable, and I am really liking Count of Unease now. 12 Things I Forgot, of course, is nice as well.
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I think 12 Things I Forgot just clicked with me. I'm somewhat indifferent to the album, but this could be the beginning of me really enjoying it.
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I think 12 Things I Forgot just clicked with me. I'm somewhat indifferent to the album, but this could be the beginning of me really enjoying it.
I think that is the easiest song to grab on to for fans who aren't wild about the album as a whole. It sounds like vintage SW, and without the electronics cosmetology. I actually find I am listening to that one not as much as many others (counting all of the bonus songs), but I always go in waves with these things, and I am sure the cycle will come back around and it will be one I revisit often again sooner rather than later.
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A new interview, worth reading I think: https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/news/141351/
Interesting excerpt: I’m working on two albums. One of them, which will be out if not by the end of this year, then certainly early next year – which is a guitar record! – funnily enough, that’s not a solo record. That’s going to be a collaboration, but I can’t say who with at the moment. It’s much more of a guitar record.
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*cues the talk that the guitar/collaboration record is a PT reunion*
:P :P
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Storm Corrosion 2? :corn
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Storm Corrosion 2? :corn
I'd take it, or really any guitar driven album.
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Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"
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Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"
I thought the entire reason Steven Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.
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Every band that ever existed is a collaboration by definition unless there is only a single artist playing every instrument who also wrote every single note of the music.
What I'm saying is in the traditional sense, the word "collaboration" isn't often used in reference to a BAND such as Porcupine Tree. It's mostly referred as, well, a band.
Storm Corrosion is far more likely as that's clearly a traditional collaboration with another established artist.
But hey, don't take my word for it, take Steven Wilson's word for it (https://stevenwilsonhq.com/sw/collaborations/).
Steven Wilson has also worked with OSI, Marillion, JBK, Orphaned Land, Paatos, Theo Travis, Yoko Ono, Fish, Cipher and Anja Garbarek performing songwriting duties as well as performing musically. Most recently, Wilson was featured on the Pendulum album “Immersion”, with his vocals featuring on “The Fountain”. He made a guest appearance on Dream Theater’s 2007 album, Systematic Chaos on the song “Repentance”, as one of several musical guests recorded apologizing to important people in their lives for wrongdoings in the past.
Steven produced and contributed backing vocals, guitar and keyboards for Opeth on the albums Blackwater Park, Deliverance, and Damnation. In addition to this, he has collaborated on many projects with Belgian experimental musician Dirk Serries of Vidna Obmana and Fear Falls Burning, most notably on their collaboration project Continuum which has so far produced two albums. Wilson is also featured on a Fovea Hex EP “Allure” (Part 3 of the “Neither Speak Nor Remain Silent” trilogy of EP’s) on bass guitar. This EP was released in April 2007 through Die-Stadt Musik.
Notice anything missing from his exhaustive list of collaborations?
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I think a better way to put it is that while PT was almost always a one-man show in the past when it came to the creative and writing process, a song here and a song there aside, I doubt the other members of the band would be anxious to get back together just to be Wilson's backup band while he runs the show again, so if they were to get back together, it would likely be more of a collaboration than it was prior.
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Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"
I thought the entire reason Steve and Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.
Maybe that's the collaboration? :omg:
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Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"
I thought the entire reason Steve and Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.
Maybe that's the collaboration? :omg:
:facepalm:
Stupid talk to text.
I fixed it.
I just seem to remember that Steven Wilson went solo because there were things he wanted to try that the other members of PT (Barbari mostly) weren’t interested in doing. I mean, if it was truly *his band*, he could have easily said “too bad. This is what we’re doing.” Or even changed musicians and still called it PT. But he didn’t. Which leads me to believe that the other members had a say in the direction of the music that Steven was no longer happy with.
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Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"
I thought the entire reason Steve and Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.
Maybe that's the collaboration? :omg:
:facepalm:
Stupid talk to text.
I fixed it.
I just seem to remember that Steven Wilson went solo because there were things he wanted to try that the other members of PT (Barbari mostly) weren’t interested in doing. I mean, if it was truly *his band*, he could have easily said “too bad. This is what we’re doing.” Or even changed musicians and still called it PT. But he didn’t. Which leads me to believe that the other members had a say in the direction of the music that Steven was no longer happy with.
Honestly, I think a lot of PT's sound, outside of Wilson, comes from Barbieri's keyboards. His work in PT is pretty essential to the band's sound, maybe more so than Edwin or even Harrison, who are a great rhythm section, but I could probably listen to Wilson and Barbieri play with another rhythm section and still feel and hear the PT sound from them.
-Marc.
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Honestly, I think a lot of PT's sound, outside of Wilson, comes from Barbieri's keyboards. His work in PT is pretty essential to the band's sound, maybe more so than Edwin or even Harrison, who are a great rhythm section, but I could probably listen to Wilson and Barbieri play with another rhythm section and still feel and hear the PT sound from them.
-Marc.
This is absolutely true.
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Honestly, I think a lot of PT's sound, outside of Wilson, comes from Barbieri's keyboards. His work in PT is pretty essential to the band's sound, maybe more so than Edwin or even Harrison, who are a great rhythm section, but I could probably listen to Wilson and Barbieri play with another rhythm section and still feel and hear the PT sound from them.
-Marc.
This is absolutely true.
For sure. I suspect many would view Harrison as the 2nd most important member of PT (after Wilson), but the band was great for a solid decade before he joined the band, and Wilson's solo career has been awesome with various drummers. Adding an all-world drummer to his music is like icing on the cake, but it is not part of the cake.
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Barbieri is essential to the Porcupine Tree atmosphere. For me, he is one of the reasons I enjoy Deadwing a lot.
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Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"
I thought the entire reason Steve and Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.
Maybe that's the collaboration? :omg:
:facepalm:
Stupid talk to text.
I fixed it.
I just seem to remember that Steven Wilson went solo because there were things he wanted to try that the other members of PT (Barbari mostly) weren’t interested in doing. I mean, if it was truly *his band*, he could have easily said “too bad. This is what we’re doing.” Or even changed musicians and still called it PT. But he didn’t. Which leads me to believe that the other members had a say in the direction of the music that Steven was no longer happy with.
Honestly, I think a lot of PT's sound, outside of Wilson, comes from Barbieri's keyboards. His work in PT is pretty essential to the band's sound, maybe more so than Edwin or even Harrison, who are a great rhythm section, but I could probably listen to Wilson and Barbieri play with another rhythm section and still feel and hear the PT sound from them.
-Marc.
I rarely disagree with you, but on this point, I have to ;) Gavin is my MVP besides Steven in Porcupine Tree. Yes, Barbieri contributed a lot to the atmosphere. But for me, Gavin's groove and style are inevitable for the band. Chris Maitland was a good drummer, but Gavin brought the band to another level.
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Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"
I thought the entire reason Steve and Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.
Maybe that's the collaboration? :omg:
:facepalm:
Stupid talk to text.
I fixed it.
I just seem to remember that Steven Wilson went solo because there were things he wanted to try that the other members of PT (Barbari mostly) weren’t interested in doing. I mean, if it was truly *his band*, he could have easily said “too bad. This is what we’re doing.” Or even changed musicians and still called it PT. But he didn’t. Which leads me to believe that the other members had a say in the direction of the music that Steven was no longer happy with.
Honestly, I think a lot of PT's sound, outside of Wilson, comes from Barbieri's keyboards. His work in PT is pretty essential to the band's sound, maybe more so than Edwin or even Harrison, who are a great rhythm section, but I could probably listen to Wilson and Barbieri play with another rhythm section and still feel and hear the PT sound from them.
-Marc.
I rarely disagree with you, but on this point, I have to ;) Gavin is my MVP besides Steven in Porcupine Tree. Yes, Barbieri contributed a lot to the atmosphere. But for me, Gavin's groove and style are inevitable for the band. Chris Maitland was a good drummer, but Gavin brought the band to another level.
So do I. Maitland was the Lars of the band comparatively. (and yes, I view him as the most important member, even more so than SW.)
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So do I. Maitland was the Lars of the band comparatively. (and yes, I view him as the most important member, even more so than SW.)
*looks at avatar*
I wonder why ;D
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So do I. Maitland was the Lars of the band comparatively. (and yes, I view him as the most important member, even more so than SW.)
*looks at avatar*
I wonder why ;D
good joke, but Gav's musicality was unparalled in that band (and is now elsewhere), that's why I think so.
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Haha, I think this just proves how essential each band member is to the overall Porcupine Tree sound. Even though it began as a Steven Wilson project, it evolved into this Band effort.
When Gavin came along. Their sound also was changing from a Space-Rock, Psychedelic, Rock. To now, a more Psychedelic, Rock, Metal. This was felt with In Absentia and really solidified itself with Deadwing. I do not think there was any song as heavy and metal until Deadwing. And this is due to how Gavin incorporated his Drumming into the overall Porcupine Tree Sound.
Crazy how Gavin only recorded 4 albums with them. And Fear of A Blank Planet being his best album, that really showcases his Drumming technicality.
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but Gav's musicality was unparalled in that band (and is now elsewhere), that's why I think so.
Okay, buy songwriting will always be more important than musicianship (which I know can a tough sell for some on this forum), and Harrison, who had a co-writing credit on less than 10 PT songs IIRC, simply doesn't compare to Wilson in that regard.
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I really like Gavin as much as most people here but he's the one out of the four I would say is replaceable. Steven you can't replace obviously, I agree with those saying Richard is a MVP and I think his soundscapes and keyboard work really elevate the material and I consider his sound almost the trademark sound of PT. Colin for me is a bit underrated because his playing provides a really nice laid back feel to many of the songs. I think Maitland was a fine drummer but even though Gavin is arguably better, I think the fact the other 3 members were still there is what made the transition smooth.
But I think overall the drummer (for the most part) just don't have enough impact on the actual song writing to determine the outcome of the album being good or bad. A great drummer will most definitely elevate the album with the playing but with PT it always felt like the drumming was in the backseat. Not to say it wasn't important, but the songwriting is really what makes the difference. It's a problem I have with the last few Pineapple Thief albums is despite the addition of Gavin, the songwriting (IMO) just isn't as good as it was on their albums from 10-20 years ago and even though the drumming is vastly improved, it ultimately doesn't lift the quality that much. :/
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Colin brings this laid back vibe and that makes those older Porcupine Tree songs like Russia On Ice and Hatesong. The way he presents himself, is reflected in the style that he plays he bass, and it shows when he plays live.
Honestly, at this point, I don't think any member is replaceable. This lineup, to me, is where Porcupine Tree Culminated.
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I really like Gavin as much as most people here but he's the one out of the four I would say is replaceable. Steven you can't replace obviously, I agree with those saying Richard is a MVP and I think his soundscapes and keyboard work really elevate the material and I consider his sound almost the trademark sound of PT. Colin for me is a bit underrated because his playing provides a really nice laid back feel to many of the songs. I think Maitland was a fine drummer but even though Gavin is arguably better, I think the fact the other 3 members were still there is what made the transition smooth.
But I think overall the drummer (for the most part) just don't have enough impact on the actual song writing to determine the outcome of the album being good or bad. A great drummer will most definitely elevate the album with the playing but with PT it always felt like the drumming was in the backseat. Not to say it wasn't important, but the songwriting is really what makes the difference. It's a problem I have with the last few Pineapple Thief albums is despite the addition of Gavin, the songwriting (IMO) just isn't as good as it was on their albums from 10-20 years ago and even though the drumming is vastly improved, it ultimately doesn't lift the quality that much. :/
I agree. You can have the most talented musicians in the world together, but if the songwriting isn't there, it won't sound great.
It's what happened to a lot of the so called Supergroups.
The only reason Bands are good, is due to the songwriting, either by one man or the band itself.
When the band does it, it's usually jammed and then written based off those jams. Otherwise, it's someone who brings in a riff, Idea or even a completed Demo and the band will work with those ideas and transform each part into the song. The band comes to a consensus on what is good and where to take it.
Bands with One main songwriter, or one that originates from one songwriter, all follow what that songwriter wants his music to be. The songwriter will look for musicians that can best represent the sounds he wants his music to sound, and as time goes on, the songwriters style may change and then the musicians change. The members of the band at that time, are not like band members and are more hired at will, but if course are still treated with respect as if they are a band member, because they are, it's in the business term that they are not band members, if you get what I mean... :lol
That's what Porcupine Tree was at first. Then it became the band effort where each member put their touch and personality into the music and became Porcupine Tree the band.
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Good point about Pineapple Thief, Zantera. I am a lukewarm fan of theirs, but a friend, who got into them big time a few years ago and is a huge Harrison fan, even concedes that the last two albums aren't very good, although Dissolution had a couple of major keepers (I agree on that one). In other words, the addition of Harrison as the drummer made almost no difference since, as we have said, songwriting is what matters the most. Take the band whose existence inspired the creation of this very forum. Their musicianship is obviously second to none when it comes to rock bands, but Dream Theater never would have survived this long and kept such a dedicated fanbase without good songs.
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I'm as surprised as anyone to find thos album is climbing my rankings fir the year. I like it way more than I expected after A) hearing the singles, and B) hearing the album itself for the first time. Currently sat at my #3 AotY.
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songwriting will always be more important than musicianship
yes!
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I'm as surprised as anyone to find thos album is climbing my rankings fir the year. I like it way more than I expected after A) hearing the singles, and B) hearing the album itself for the first time. Currently sat at my #3 AotY.
I'd probably be listening to it a lot more if I didn't have tons of other new stuff I am enjoying more at the moment (Transatlantic, LTE, Taylor Swift), but it's still a very good record. Not one of his best, but still a worthy addition to his already killer catalogue. Personal Shopper taking up so much of what is already not a long running order is still the biggest hair in the soup for me. But, a lot of the bonus songs are really nice, so we still got a lot of minutes of new good SW material. :tup :tup
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But I think overall the drummer (for the most part) just don't have enough impact on the actual song writing to determine the outcome of the album being good or bad. A great drummer will most definitely elevate the album with the playing but with PT it always felt like the drumming was in the backseat. Not to say it wasn't important, but the songwriting is really what makes the difference. It's a problem I have with the last few Pineapple Thief albums is despite the addition of Gavin, the songwriting (IMO) just isn't as good as it was on their albums from 10-20 years ago and even though the drumming is vastly improved, it ultimately doesn't lift the quality that much. :/
Here's how important a drummer can be:
If Steven decides to reunite Porcupine Tree and Gavin Harrison is not part of it, I (as a massive fan of Steve) will actively not listen to the album they'd put out.
Up The Downstair is an example of a collection of Steven Wilson-compositions that in their original form I have absolutely no use for. I never listen to it, I don't really like it. But the new version with Gavin on it, now that version I DO like and often listen to.
If Gavin decided to quit Pineapple Thief, I would probably stop listening to their new stuff. And I have listened to some of their pre-Gavin music and it just doesn't appeal to me nearly as much as their latest works. Because this drummer makes the band whole.
And so, I completely disagree with you, I think a drummer can lift up someone else's compositions and completely turn it around 180° for me. Especially, if we're talking about Gavin Harrison.
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But I think overall the drummer (for the most part) just don't have enough impact on the actual song writing to determine the outcome of the album being good or bad. A great drummer will most definitely elevate the album with the playing but with PT it always felt like the drumming was in the backseat. Not to say it wasn't important, but the songwriting is really what makes the difference. It's a problem I have with the last few Pineapple Thief albums is despite the addition of Gavin, the songwriting (IMO) just isn't as good as it was on their albums from 10-20 years ago and even though the drumming is vastly improved, it ultimately doesn't lift the quality that much. :/
Here's how important a drummer can be:
If Steven decides to reunite Porcupine Tree and Gavin Harrison is not part of it, I (as a massive fan of Steve) will actively not listen to the album they'd put out.
Up The Downstair is an example of a collection of Steven Wilson-compositions that in their original form I have absolutely no use for. I never listen to it, I don't really like it. But the new version with Gavin on it, now that version I DO like and often listen to.
If Gavin decided to quit Pineapple Thief, I would probably stop listening to their new stuff. And I have listened to some of their pre-Gavin music and it just doesn't appeal to me nearly as much as their latest works. Because this drummer makes the band whole.
And so, I completely disagree with you, I think a drummer can lift up someone else's compositions and completely turn it around 180° for me. Especially, if we're talking about Gavin Harrison.
Thank you.
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I feel like the difference is PT made some of their best albums without Gavin, even if him joining breathed new life into the band as well. I feel like if you look at Stupid Dream/Lightbulb Sun vs In Absentia/Deadwing, putting aside personal favorites it's just 4 great albums with 2 different drummers.
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Eh, I found the newer release of Up the Downstair to be not as good (which I have said since its release) because Harrison overplayed the crap out of too many parts. Similar to how he overplayed the crap out of Hatesong on the last tour the band did and made that live version virtually unlistenable. Harrison is similar to Jordan Rudess in that he is great, but just can't help himself too often to play as many notes/beat as possible.
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Eh, I found the newer release of Up the Downstair to be not as good (which I have said since its release) because Harrison overplayed the crap out of too many parts. Similar to how he overplayed the crap out of Hatesong on the last tour the band did and made that live version virtually unlistenable. Harrison is similar to Jordan Rudess in that he is great, but just can't help himself too often to play as many notes/beat as possible.
I agree with this 100% both with UTD and Hatesong but I can also imagine the predicament of giving your own interpretation of an already written and recorded song. You could play it just like the original and some will love that, some might think it's boring/safe, or you could try to elevate/put your own spin on it.
Gavin's drumming on Hatesong for me was equally distracting as John Wesley doing the Dark Matter guitar solo. Maybe not as bad but on a similar level.
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Eh, I found the newer release of Up the Downstair to be not as good (which I have said since its release) because Harrison overplayed the crap out of too many parts. Similar to how he overplayed the crap out of Hatesong on the last tour the band did and made that live version virtually unlistenable. Harrison is similar to Jordan Rudess in that he is great, but just can't help himself too often to play as many notes/beat as possible.
I agree with this 100% both with UTD and Hatesong but I can also imagine the predicament of giving your own interpretation of an already written and recorded song. You could play it just like the original and some will love that, some might think it's boring/safe, or you could try to elevate/put your own spin on it.
Gavin's drumming on Hatesong for me was equally distracting as John Wesley doing the Dark Matter guitar solo. Maybe not as bad but on a similar level.
True. I get that about putting your own spin on it, but it felt like Harrison's spin on it was too often, "hey, let's overplay the crap out of it!" A little restraint is not a bad thing. The original Hatesong has such an amazing and bad ass groove, and that is completely absent in the live version with Harrison. But, hey, he played some really hard stuff and is a technical bad ass, so yay that, right? :lol :lol
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I think the issue with him on UTD is that the album has a real spacey, trance vibe to it and the programmed drums add to that atmosphere. Adding real drums automatically sounds out of place no matter how "true" to the song a drummer is.
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Eh, I found the newer release of Up the Downstair to be not as good (which I have said since its release) because Harrison overplayed the crap out of too many parts. Similar to how he overplayed the crap out of Hatesong on the last tour the band did and made that live version virtually unlistenable. Harrison is similar to Jordan Rudess in that he is great, but just can't help himself too often to play as many notes/beat as possible.
Interesting, I find Hatesong very boring in the original version :lol
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I think the issue with him on UTD is that the album has a real spacey, trance vibe to it and the programmed drums add to that atmosphere. Adding real drums automatically sounds out of place no matter how "true" to the song a drummer is.
I agree. It's a shame the original is getting harder to find.
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Never heard the Octane Twisted version of Hatesong, starting it now. Will report back with my thoughts.
EDIT: This is fine. He overplays a bit yeah, but not to the point where it kills the groove in any of the important bits. He goes pretty over-the-top in the outro but that part's basically a jam section, so why not?
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I think the issue with him on UTD is that the album has a real spacey, trance vibe to it and the programmed drums add to that atmosphere. Adding real drums automatically sounds out of place no matter how "true" to the song a drummer is.
Very true. I was shattered at how much the original Burning Sky was dismantled on the remaster. Not only did the real drums overplay the song and not do several of my favorite drum fills from the original, Wilson re-recorded the main guitar riff and sucked the life out of it. Thank goodness I still have my copy of the original. :hat :hat
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Never heard the Octane Twisted version of Hatesong, starting it now. Will report back with my thoughts.
EDIT: This is fine. He overplays a bit yeah, but not to the point where it kills the groove in any of the important bits. He goes pretty over-the-top in the outro but that part's basically a jam section, so why not?
I don't know the Octane Twisted version yet (it's their only live album with Gavin I don't know yet). I only know the Arriving Somewhere version and it's fucking awesome :metal
But coincidentally, the vinyl version of the Octane Twisted album was released yesterday and will probably arrive here by Monday :) So: I, too, will report back with my thoughts ;)
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Count me in as someone who absolutely adores that live version of Hatesong from Arriving Somewhere. Gavin’s playing is absolutely brilliant and when I saw him do that “thumb drag“ thing in the video my mind was completely blown. Maybe it’s an old trick, but I had never seen anybody do that before.
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Count me in as someone who absolutely adores that live version of Hatesong from Arriving Somewhere. Gavin’s playing is absolutely brilliant and when I saw him do that “thumb drag“ thing in the video my mind was completely blown. Maybe it’s an old trick, but I had never seen anybody do that before.
Coincidentally, I watched that concert yesterday and yes, that version is insane. That live album was part of my teenie-years prog education :lol and while I always thought the Hatesong itself was only okay, the things GH plays on it always blew my mind. And they do to this day!
I'm looking forward to comparing the two versions from Arriving Somewhere and Octane Twisted.
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new Album Years Podcast
2001: Opeth Tool Radiohead
https://www.instagram.com/p/COGY3OwNO_q/
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New song
https://youtu.be/r0YvSA-DJVg
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New song
https://youtu.be/r0YvSA-DJVg
This is pretty good. He should have left this on the album.
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I hugely prefer the demo of that track.
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Porcupine Three...
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13381221 (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13381221)
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Porcupine Three...
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13381221 (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13381221)
Oh WOW, good find! No Colin Edwin though... I wonder who will play bass, or if bass duties will be covered by SW on an album?
-Marc.
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Now that's what I call a good post. :tup
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OH MAN
Is it common at all for some band members to not be included in the band as a company? Maybe Collin would be down to play on a new album or tour but doesn't want a "stake" in the band from whatever reason.
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OH MAN
Is it common at all for some band members to not be included in the band as a company? Maybe Collin would be down to play on a new album or tour but doesn't want a "stake" in the band from whatever reason.
IIRC, this was addressed in the In Absentia documentary. I need to revisit this but I believe this was the case back then where he doesn't want to be an owner.
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OH MAN
Is it common at all for some band members to not be included in the band as a company? Maybe Collin would be down to play on a new album or tour but doesn't want a "stake" in the band from whatever reason.
If that's the case, why bother with the new title of Porcupine Three? Purely for business purposes? If that's the case, why not just keep the original name?
-Marc.
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OH MAN
Is it common at all for some band members to not be included in the band as a company? Maybe Collin would be down to play on a new album or tour but doesn't want a "stake" in the band from whatever reason.
Colin is still an active director for Porcupine Tree Limited as are the other three.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04392309/officers (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04392309/officers)
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OH MAN
Is it common at all for some band members to not be included in the band as a company? Maybe Collin would be down to play on a new album or tour but doesn't want a "stake" in the band from whatever reason.
Colin is still an active director for Porcupine Tree Limited as are the other three.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04392309/officers (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04392309/officers)
Hmm, that lists Steven Wilson as the only "person with significant control" whereas the new one has him, Richard, and Gavin with seemingly equal control. Interesting. :corn
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Lends more credence to the theory that the new guitar-based album Steven referred to could indeed be one by Porcupine Tree.
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New song
https://youtu.be/r0YvSA-DJVg (https://youtu.be/r0YvSA-DJVg)
This is pretty good. He should have left this on the album.
It sounds like it would have fit nicely on Hand.Cannot.Erase - if more of The Future Bites was like this I might have bought it and actually listened to it more than once.
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I think this is just something done for legal reasons rather than an indication of any new music tbh. The new rock album is likely either a new Blackfield one, or a new side project.
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Rich Wilson replied to someone on FB (who sent that link to him):
“Correct. Suspect that is to do with the falling out before they split...”
Wondering what was the fallout….
Rich Wilson is the author of the DT bio and the PT “Time Flies Book”.
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Rich did a great job with the DT book but wasn't his book on PT largely without any participation from the band? I'm not saying he is wrong but it'd be nice to know his sources.
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I am not saying it is not true, but without credible sources (someone saying it on Facebook is not it :lol), I am taking any talk of a falling out with a grain of salt. Wouldn't surprise me, since I don't think I have heard SW talk about Colin Edwin in any interview since, while he has mentioned the others, but that could be just a big whole nothing.
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STEVEN WILSON X BIFFY CLYRO
11th June 2021
...whatever that means, he just posted it.
-Marc.
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Hmm, a Steve Wilson collab with Biffy Clyro would be interesting
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STEVEN WILSON X BIFFY CLYRO
11th June 2021
...whatever that means, he just posted it.
-Marc.
it's this: https://music.apple.com/nz/album/personal-shopper-biffy-clyro-remix-single/1569753763
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Yep:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md14BSuD18E
Can't say I am excited about another Personal Shopper remix...
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I agree. I actually love Personal Shopper. But yeah... shrug. The stems have been widely available to everyone so, aside from it being a well known band, there's nothing special about it.
I'm not a Biffy Clyro fan but I'd have preferred a genuinely new collaboration.
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No amount of remixing can fix the worst part of that song which are Steven's lyrics and vocals imo
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Steven Willson was on Gary Kemp and Guy Pratt’s podcast this week. Really nice interview, and interesting to hear him say pretty definitively he believes Porcupine Tree will make another album someday. I don’t always get a lot out of SW’s music, and he says things from time to time that bug me, but I could listen to him talk about music and production stuff all day.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rockonteurs-with-gary-kemp-and-guy-pratt/id1530701242?i=1000534325354
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I posted that in the Porcupine Tree thread. :)
Part of me wants to believe that the “guitar centric album” he’s been working on IS the new PT album, but in reality it probably won’t happen until King Crimson’s (possibly final) tour ends and Gavin is free.
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I posted that in the Porcupine Tree thread. :)
Part of me wants to believe that the “guitar centric album” he’s been working on IS the new PT album, but in reality it probably won’t happen until King Crimson’s (possibly final) tour ends and Gavin is free.
Ah, hadn’t been keeping up with that one and this thread felt more topical for the interview as a whole.
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New song by Paul Draper (Mansun) ft. SW. Actually it sounds more like SW featuring Paul. Chorus is kinda weak, the rest is good.
https://youtu.be/MEcYeVEGPVY
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Anyone still listening to The Future Bites or give it a recent listen? I admittedly had not listened to it much after the initial first few months after its release, but I gave it a few whirls this week and enjoyed it a lot. Sure, it's still the least best of his six solo albums (which is no shame given how good the other five are), but it's still a good album, and a lot of the bonus material is good as well. Sadly, between the mixed reaction, the cancellation of the tour and the upcoming PT reunion, this album will likely stay in the black hole for many fans and be viewed as the big hiccup of his career, but while I do not love it, I like it.
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Anyone still listening to The Future Bites or give it a recent listen? I admittedly had not listened to it much after the initial first few months after its release, but I gave it a few whirls this week and enjoyed it a lot. Sure, it's still the least best of his six solo albums (which is no shame given how good the other five are), but it's still a good album, and a lot of the bonus material is good as well. Sadly, between the mixed reaction, the cancellation of the tour and the upcoming PT reunion, this album will likely stay in the black hole for many fans and be viewed as the big hiccup of his career, but while I do not love it, I like it.
I feel the same Kev. I did spin it a few weeks ago but compared to his other albums it gets less spins.
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It's not in my bottom 10 albums of the year but I ranked it at #59 out of 70 albums I heard this year. It's okay, in fact some moments I would even say are good. But he's done better and I also feel my general interest with SW is at a low point where I'm not reaching for his music that often, and if I am, he just has many albums a lot better/more interesting than this. I don't think it's terrible or a huge disappointment like some people, I just think it's 'fine'.
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I would rather listen to the last No-Man and Blackfield albums than TFB, tbh, and Steven's involvement in those two is fairly minimal at best, but the No-Man album just grooves a lot, and the last Blackfield was fairly good (though not as good as V).
I think I've listened to TFB about a dozen times this year and I honestly have little desire to revisit it. I still think the mixed reactions to it pushed Steven to move ahead with reuniting Porcupine Tree a lot sooner than he had wanted. Let's hope it turns out to be a good album!
-Marc.
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I would rather listen to the last No-Man and Blackfield albums than TFB, tbh, and Steven's involvement in those two is fairly minimal at best, but the No-Man album just grooves a lot, and the last Blackfield was fairly good (though not as good as V).
I think I've listened to TFB about a dozen times this year and I honestly have little desire to revisit it. I still think the mixed reactions to it pushed Steven to move ahead with reuniting Porcupine Tree a lot sooner than he had wanted. Let's hope it turns out to be a good album!
-Marc.
If the fact that TFB bit hard pushed him to reunite PT, then the album was a success in my eyes. I have little desire to listen to it otherwise. Personal Shopper and Follower were the only tracks that interested me. The rest was otherwise forgettable.
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I still think the mixed reactions to it pushed Steven to move ahead with reuniting Porcupine Tree a lot sooner than he had wanted. Let's hope it turns out to be a good album!
-Marc.
I think you're right about this. And yeah, it's his worst solo release by far IMO. Its not that it's total garbage (there are some good tunes on it). It's just not even close to being in the same league as his other solo albums (both The Raven & HCE are probably in my top 20 - top 25 albums of all time by anyone)
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I seriously doubt that Wilson thought, "Damn, people didn't like The Future Bites, so I guess I had better reform Porcupine Tree." That doesn't seem in line at all with his personality, but I get that it will become a theory that catches on as a talking point for some based on absolutely nothing.
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Timeline-wise it also feels too soon; I’d be surprised if the decision to reunite PT occurred after TFB released.
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Besides, I thought I read somewhere that some of these songs were ideas that they had been floating around the last time they got together. In other words, some of these “new“ songs are not exactly new.
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I could see a slight connection because TFB went over fairly lukewarm among the fans so a new PT album feels like a distraction to flip the table and maybe bring some positive buzz again. I also don't think SW has any plans for PT beyond this album and tour, this just feels like a small detour before he makes his next solo album again.
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I think I read half the songs on the new PT were already written and the other half are new tunes. Maybe TFB was not as commercially successful as he had hoped. That, coupled with no touring and knowing the fans have been waiting for a new PT release (would be an easy money maker for them) gave SW the push he needed to say this is the time. Just a thought..
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I'm thinking that Steven put a lot of investment into the touring for The Future Bites and ended up with a big loss of income.
SO what should be done to regenerate those losses and you know what will make easy money. He reformed Porcupine Tree because that demand is there and people will easily pay for a new album and tour (which won't be a big production tour) to generate more profits.
I am sure he already knew this and wanted to continue releasing albums under his name, but what can you do when you take a big income loss and can't do what you really want to do with your solo music due to the financial losses.
Steven reforming Porcupine Tree is not because The Future Bites wasn't a big commercial success. It's due to his financial situation taking a huge loss due to the pandemic. Which it caused financial losses for a lot of bands that were touring or had already invested in touring and are now finding ways to regenerate that loss so they could be a stable band financially.
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I'm thinking that Steven put a lot of investment into the touring for The Future Bites and ended up with a big loss of income.
SO what should be done to regenerate those losses and you know what will make easy money. He reformed Porcupine Tree because that demand is there and people will easily pay for a new album and tour (which won't be a big production tour) to generate more profits.
I am sure he already knew this and wanted to continue releasing albums under his name, but what can you do when you take a big income loss and can't do what you really want to do with your solo music due to the financial losses.
Steven reforming Porcupine Tree is not because The Future Bites wasn't a big commercial success. It's due to his financial situation taking a huge loss due to the pandemic. Which it caused financial losses for a lot of bands that were touring or had already invested in touring and are now finding ways to regenerate that loss so they could be a stable band financially.
Exactly. These artists don't make much money on album releases anymore anyway - it's touring where they make their $$. I think I remember him saying he was planning on a pretty exorbitant stage show for TFB tour - he probably lost his ass on that if he already put the money out. So reforming PT was probably an easy decision for him, as the demand for that product already exists.
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Yeah, I think he probably took a big hit. The Future Bites were going to be his biggest shows and in Amsterdam there were even promotion posters in general areas. And he was (hopefully is) doing well here, because the venues have kept increasing in size. His solo shows were in increasing bigger venues.
That said, as someone previously quite critical of the album, it has grown on me a lot. Not even sure why it kept returning in my playlists, but I am glad it did.
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These artists don't make much money on album releases anymore anyway - it's touring where they make their $$. I think I remember him saying he was planning on a pretty exorbitant stage show for TFB tour - he probably lost his ass on that if he already put the money out. So reforming PT was probably an easy decision for him, as the demand for that product already exists.
Someone explain to me how this works. Since the tour did not happen, how would he have lost his ass on it? I can see having spent a lot of promotion and whatnot for a tour that didn't happen, but as far as everything that it would have taken to put on the shows (lighting, stage stuff, etc.), how does that work as far as stuff he may have invested in, but didn't actually use?
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These artists don't make much money on album releases anymore anyway - it's touring where they make their $$. I think I remember him saying he was planning on a pretty exorbitant stage show for TFB tour - he probably lost his ass on that if he already put the money out. So reforming PT was probably an easy decision for him, as the demand for that product already exists.
Someone explain to me how this works. Since the tour did not happen, how would he have lost his ass on it? I can see having spent a lot of promotion and whatnot for a tour that didn't happen, but as far as everything that it would have taken to put on the shows (lighting, stage stuff, etc.), how does that work as far as stuff he may have invested in, but didn't actually use?
A quote from Devin Townsend on this matter (source: his crowdfunding campaign from 2020):
As with any significant tour, the investments of putting up a good show with a fantastic crew and band are massive. There’s lightning rigs, video screens, tour busses, work visas, merch production & logistics, international flights and a ton of other things that require financial backing and when a tour gets cancelled due to government restrictions there’s no insurance policy in place to cover any of that.
Not to mention things like comissioned artwork/video work etc. Those things are produced way in advance.
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These artists don't make much money on album releases anymore anyway - it's touring where they make their $$. I think I remember him saying he was planning on a pretty exorbitant stage show for TFB tour - he probably lost his ass on that if he already put the money out. So reforming PT was probably an easy decision for him, as the demand for that product already exists.
Someone explain to me how this works. Since the tour did not happen, how would he have lost his ass on it? I can see having spent a lot of promotion and whatnot for a tour that didn't happen, but as far as everything that it would have taken to put on the shows (lighting, stage stuff, etc.), how does that work as far as stuff he may have invested in, but didn't actually use?
Not 100% sure, but if it was custom made staging, lighting, maybe custom produced videos for the screens he was probably going to have - and who know what else he was planning. That stuff is in the works months in advance. He probably had to pay for all that stuff if the companies he contracted with already produced it and did the work. He can't just walk away from them and say sorry guys, tour's cancelled.
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Okay, thank for those posts! I figured it was something along those lines, but didn't really know the specifics and was curious.
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Knowing the elaborate concept of The Future Bites, I was wondering just how far Steven would take the production for the live show.
Must've been immense, and it's a good thing someone bought the Limited Deluxe 10,000£ boxset. I'm sure that helped him out a lot.
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Must've been immense, and it's a good thing someone bought the Limited Deluxe 10,000£ boxset. I'm sure that helped him out a lot.
All the proceeds from the Ultra Deluxe Box Set went to charity.
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Must've been immense, and it's a good thing someone bought the Limited Deluxe 10,000£ boxset. I'm sure that helped him out a lot.
All the proceeds from the Ultra Deluxe Box Set went to charity.
OH yeah duh.... :facepalm: :loser:
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I didn’t think too highly of the album when it came out, and even though I’d say it’s his least good solo album to date, it’s been growing on me as of late.
Turns out this album is great to put on if I want something approachable or something that could serve as semi-background music. That’s precisely the problem with the album (it lacks the SW epic/prog ingredients that were still plenty on To The Bone), but it works in its favor as well. 12 Things, King Ghost and Man of the People are just really pleasant tunes.
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New Years Update from SW. Autobiography coming.
Curious about this new 3rd project for 2023 he talks about, and what extent PT are going to try and tour late in 2022 (North America namely).
https://stevenwilsonhq.com/sw/2022-new-year-update/
(https://stevenwilsonhq.com/sw/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/CleanShot-2022-01-01-at-12.20.03@2x-760x1024.jpg)
2022 NEW YEAR UPDATE
JANUARY 1, 2022
Happy new year from Wilson HQ!
Who could have predicted that as another year rolls around, anything approaching normal life would continue to be in a holding pattern. In my own universe it’s been two years since I finished recording THE FUTURE BITES and one year since it was finally released into the vacuum of the pandemic. It’s been great to see it receiving end of year accolades nevertheless, the 2 Recording Academy / GRAMMYs nominations especially were an unexpectedly pleasant surprise.
Normally, I would have been highly visible promoting and touring a new record throughout the year, but unable to do so I instead disappeared into my studio and busied myself working on some big projects. The first of these is a book, Limited Edition of One, to be published by Little Brown in late March. It was written under a “no rules” philosophy with the collaboration of rock biographer Mick Wall. As well as containing some autobiographical material, it also has a lot on my ideas about music and the way things have changed in my time as a professional, lists, photos from my personal archives, conversation transcripts and even some fictional elements. As there have already been a few books written about me and/or Porcupine Tree in recent years, I’ve chosen to focus on the stuff that people really don’t know about me. As you can probably guess, there will also be a special limited deluxe version. This will feature a second volume of supplementary material and photos, plus a 70 minute CD with “audio illustrations” of some of the things I talk about in the book, including mercifully brief extracts of my school bands, and early unreleased demos by No-Man and Porcupine Tree, among others. Although much of its musical merits might be questionable, my hope is to put you there “in the room” when I’m talking about my early musical endeavours.
The other major 2022 release will be the new Porcupine Tree album Closure / Continuation. The album was completed during lockdown, entirely written, produced and performed by just myself, Gavin and Richard, and will be issued in June on Music For Nations / Sony. I think it’s fair to say that it sounds quintessentially like a Porcupine Tree album, albeit with the benefit of all that the three of us have been doing during the 12 years since the last PT album. Like our best albums, it’s probably the kind you need to listen to several times before it sinks in. You can hear “Harridan” from the album now, with 2 more songs to be previewed online between now and the album’s release. There will also be a select run of concerts towards the end of the year. European shows are on sale now with North and South American shows to be announced soon. There are no plans for any future Porcupine Tree concerts beyond these (though never say never.)
The third major project I’ve been working on is my next album, which I hope to release in mid-2023, a big conceptual thing partly based on a short story that appears in my book. A long way to go yet, but I’m excited about it and where the music is taking me, something completely different again with collaborators both old and new. I remain committed to the idea of building a body of work where every album has its own personality and unique place in the catalogue.
As always, I did my fair share of mixing work for other artists in 2021, including some very unexpected high profile ones, but most of these projects have been held over until 2022 due to a combination of the pandemic and the ever increasing delays in manufacturing vinyl. In terms of surround it was definitely a year when invitations to mix in 5.1 gave way to requests for Dolby Atmos. I’m also in the process of curating a box set which will focus on how the progressive spirit of the 70’s continued to inspire independent and alternative music throughout the 80’s, something which has allowed me to revisit a lot of my favourite post-punk and art pop/rock music from the decade when I was a music-crazed teenager. Everything from Wire and Joy Division to Cardiacs and Cocteau Twins will feature. More news on that soon.
For those that follow and enjoy my podcast with Tim Bowness, The Album Years, we promise to try to be a bit more prolific with it in 2022!
Finally, if you haven’t already, please do check out the collaboration song with my friend Paul Draper called “Omega Man”, a vibey piece of lockdown themed art-pop. As well as featuring on his new album Cult Leader Tactics, it’s being released as an exclusive indie-stores only 7 inch single in extended form.
That’s all for now. Let us all hope for a better connected human race in 2022, despite the Omicron spectre of recent weeks. In the meantime I wish you all the very best for the year to come!
SW, 1st January 2022
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I am really happy that he will be continuing his solo path as well. :tup
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I read that post earlier this morning, and it's nice to know that Steven is always looking ahead, even past what's coming right up.
I do wonder if he just sees this PT reunion as a stop-gap between solo albums, though, or if he's really all in for it and perhaps might revisit PT again after his next solo album? It'll be interesting to see where he goes after 2023 and what he plans on to do afterwards.
-Marc.
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I doubt SW knows what his future plans for PT are. He's getting older and seems to have mellowed out, so I can see him starting to slow down to enjoy family life and maybe fall back on his old successes like PT to carry him into a comfortable retirement (though he'll be no doubt making music on his deathbed).
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I think SW said it before that the freedom that comes with his solo albums is something he values greatly over Porcupine Tree where the sound was getting repetitive and they couldn't expand on it that much because that's what they had in common and that's the sound the band kinda established. This PT revival definitely feels like a means to an end in that it will be some easy quick money like others pointed out, and after a somewhat lackluster fan reception of The Future Bites (I think critically it did well?) this feels like a bit of a ploy to get some of the skeptics back on the train. And it's already working because I know multiple SW fans, myself included who have been feeling a bit disinterested with his music and felt a bit of a decline in recent output, and a new PT album kinda piques your interest in a way that another solo album at this moment wouldn't.
Fully expect him to return to solo stuff after this PT cycle and maybe in another 10 years we get a PT album. Possibly we'll get something from No-Man or Blackfield during these years but those projects don't feel as SW-heavy as PT does. Aviv pretty much has been doing the heavy lifting in Blackfield since the start (and SW's role has only gotten smaller with time) and Tim Bowness brings a lot to No-Man so I think SW views those differently. I also think people just expect more from a new PT release whereas another No-Man or Blackfield would be more of a passion project that can be released more under the radar.
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Listened to The Future Bites recently and I still think it's a great album.
For me, When I listen to albums, I like to understand the meaning of the songs and how the music conveys that message. The keys, chord progressions, stylistic choices and vocals (including effects, style and melody) are all a part of that.
And these lyrics in 12 Things I Forgot hit harder with meaning due to the stylistic choice of the album. It sounds, funky and a bit 80's in terms of sound and style choice...
"I forgot what it was that I was
There was a time when I had some ambition
Now I just seem to have inhibitions
Forget what I said
'Bout acting on all the plans that I made
Now I just sit in the corner complaining
Making out things were best in the '80s"
The sound and style is very Bowie, Pink Floyd, Funk, and has Pop elements to it. Which is quite different from his usual progressive output. But whats amazing here is his use of synths and programming to create this uneasy atmosphere. Which is also a part of conveying the meaning of the songs.
Forgot to add that 12 Things I Forgot reminds me of a Blackfield song, more like an Aviv song. I can hear Avivs vocals easily being sung in there.
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I'm excited for both the PT album and his next solo album "a big conceptual thing partly based on a short story that appears in my book" "something completely different again with collaborators both old and new. I remain committed to the idea of building a body of work where every album has its own personality and unique place in the catalogue". All of that sounds good to me. I was wondering if he would be addressing the Edwin situation in his update though. Has anything been said about that anywhere recently? I know most of us expect Nick Beggs will be handling bass. Has anyone seen any further mention if this?
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I know most of us expect Nick Beggs will be handling bass. Has anyone seen any further mention if this?
The album was completed during lockdown, entirely written, produced and performed by just myself, Gavin and Richard, and will be issued in June on Music For Nations / Sony.
Looks like bass was done by Steven himself unless Gavin and/or Richard have been practicing. It's interesting to note that he made sure to state that the album was done with just those three. 🤔
-Marc.
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I know most of us expect Nick Beggs will be handling bass. Has anyone seen any further mention if this?
The album was completed during lockdown, entirely written, produced and performed by just myself, Gavin and Richard, and will be issued in June on Music For Nations / Sony.
Looks like bass was done by Steven himself unless Gavin and/or Richard have been practicing. It's interesting to note that he made sure to state that the album was done with just those three. 🤔
-Marc.
Good point, and yes I did catch that he mentioned everthing was done by just the 3 of them. I was referring more to who will handle bass when they tour?
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I know most of us expect Nick Beggs will be handling bass. Has anyone seen any further mention if this?
The album was completed during lockdown, entirely written, produced and performed by just myself, Gavin and Richard, and will be issued in June on Music For Nations / Sony.
Looks like bass was done by Steven himself unless Gavin and/or Richard have been practicing. It's interesting to note that he made sure to state that the album was done with just those three. 🤔
-Marc.
Good point, and yes I did catch that he mentioned everthing was done by just the 3 of them. I was referring more to who will handle bass when they tour?
Ahhh, for the tour... well Nick seems like the obvious choice, but I wouldn't be surprised if Steven and/or Gavin pulled someone out of left field that we wouldn't expect to play bass in Porcupine Tree. Who are some bassists that Gavin has played with over the last decade that would make for a tight rhythm section in PT?
-Marc.
-
I know most of us expect Nick Beggs will be handling bass. Has anyone seen any further mention if this?
The album was completed during lockdown, entirely written, produced and performed by just myself, Gavin and Richard, and will be issued in June on Music For Nations / Sony.
Looks like bass was done by Steven himself unless Gavin and/or Richard have been practicing. It's interesting to note that he made sure to state that the album was done with just those three. 🤔
-Marc.
Good point, and yes I did catch that he mentioned everthing was done by just the 3 of them. I was referring more to who will handle bass when they tour?
Ahhh, for the tour... well Nick seems like the obvious choice, but I wouldn't be surprised if Steven and/or Gavin pulled someone out of left field that we wouldn't expect to play bass in Porcupine Tree. Who are some bassists that Gavin has played with over the last decade that would make for a tight rhythm section in PT?
-Marc.
Tony Levin?
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The bass player from Pineapple Thief, John Sykes.
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I know most of us expect Nick Beggs will be handling bass. Has anyone seen any further mention if this?
The album was completed during lockdown, entirely written, produced and performed by just myself, Gavin and Richard, and will be issued in June on Music For Nations / Sony.
Looks like bass was done by Steven himself unless Gavin and/or Richard have been practicing. It's interesting to note that he made sure to state that the album was done with just those three. 🤔
-Marc.
Good point, and yes I did catch that he mentioned everthing was done by just the 3 of them. I was referring more to who will handle bass when they tour?
Ahhh, for the tour... well Nick seems like the obvious choice, but I wouldn't be surprised if Steven and/or Gavin pulled someone out of left field that we wouldn't expect to play bass in Porcupine Tree. Who are some bassists that Gavin has played with over the last decade that would make for a tight rhythm section in PT?
-Marc.
Tony Levin?
I did think of Tony, and he'd definitely be a neat choice to play bass live, especially since it seems like King Crimson is done (for now), he might welcome the touring opportunity.
The bass player from Pineapple Thief, John Sykes.
I've not heard any TPT, but if he's played with Gavin for awhile, I'm sure their chemistry as a rhythm section would work for PT.
-Marc.
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Marc, you haven't heard any TPT?? You're in for a treat! I'd recommend listening to their latest album, Version Of The Truth :tup
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Marc, you haven't heard any TPT?? You're in for a treat! I'd recommend listening to their latest album, Version Of The Truth :tup
Last 4 TPT studio albums are stunning (Magnolia does not have Gavin on drums).
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Eh, I am admittedly a lukewarm fan of The Pineapple Thief, but that last album was pretty forgettable. The one before had a few good songs, White Mist and Threatening War, but that was about it. Granted, I find all of their albums to be pretty spotty at best, so there is that. This band has some damn fine songs, but consistency is not their friend.
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I own Tightly Unwound and I think that album is just brilliant from start to finish. So I decided to go backwards and picked up Variations of a Dream and I was really lukewarm on it. And the single songs I’ve heard since Gavin joined I wanted to like more than I actually did.
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Recently spun The Raven in my car during my commutes this past week and I've got to say, that album has aged like a fine wine. It never gets old and is probably my favorite SW solo album. I just popped in HCE and over-all, while it doesn't top TRTRTS, it's probably my second favorite of his six solo albums.
With that in mind...
The Raven The Refused To Sing
Hand. Cannot. Erase.
Grace For Drowning
Insurgentes / To The Bone (not sure which I like more than the other, both are fairly good IMO, for different reasons)
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.
.
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The Future Bites
Gotta love a good ranking, eh? I haven't really listened to solo SW much in awhile, so as I gear up for new PT, I may mix them in a bit with other PT listening this month. I'm sure some of his solo work will resonate in the new PT given that the music has been written over the past decade during the creation and release of many of those solo albums.
-Marc.
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Good idea. It's been a few years since I pulled the solo albums off the shelf.
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Excellent interview with Steven:
https://superdeluxeedition.com/news/steven-wilson-on-the-return-of-porcupine-tree/?fbclid=IwAR3NdjWKI5PwFrngquyD359fqud2anzLho0LWo4xgfGT9-ZPqRhWI7z0sNk&fs=e&s=cl
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Recently spun The Raven in my car during my commutes this past week and I've got to say, that album has aged like a fine wine. It never gets old and is probably my favorite SW solo album. I just popped in HCE and over-all, while it doesn't top TRTRTS, it's probably my second favorite of his six solo albums.
With that in mind...
The Raven The Refused To Sing
Hand. Cannot. Erase.
Grace For Drowning
Insurgentes / To The Bone (not sure which I like more than the other, both are fairly good IMO, for different reasons)
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.
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The Future Bites
Gotta love a good ranking, eh? I haven't really listened to solo SW much in awhile, so as I gear up for new PT, I may mix them in a bit with other PT listening this month. I'm sure some of his solo work will resonate in the new PT given that the music has been written over the past decade during the creation and release of many of those solo albums.
-Marc.
My ranking is exactly the same as yours. I would just add that while the Raven is my favorite, I can make a case for H.C.E. being his best (and I believe SW himself considers this his best solo effort). I say that based on stylistically it's a bit more diverse, and I think the production is a bit "crisper", for lack of a better word. I consider both albums perfect 10 out of 10 absolute masterpieces though, and they're two of my favorite albums of the 2010's - hell, two of my favorite albums of all time. I also agree with the rest of your rankings.
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1. Hand Cannot Erase
2. Raven
3. Grace for Drowning
4. To the Bone
5. The Future Bites
6. Insurgentes
I actually quite like TFB, but I get why people might not like it. Insurgentes isn’t terrible but it’s the one I come back to the least.
HCE is the undisputed champ. I recently put together my own “director’s cut” version of the album, featuring the alternate versions of Routine and Perfect Life, Last Regret, and most of the tracks from 4 1/2.
I wouldn’t say it’s better than the regular version, but it’s a different experience and makes the album feel more cinematic.
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Good ranking, Metropolaris. I would just switch To the bone and The Future bites. Both are good, but I prefer the latter.
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The Raven and Grace for Drowning are still 1a and 1b for me.
As good as HCE is, I don't think it's quite on the level of my top 2. Routine is still one of my favorite SW songs ever though (from any of his bands/projects).
To the Bone is very underrated and is aging really well. I could see me moving that up over HCE one day.
Insurgentes is very good, but I am in that camp of I just don't revisit it a lot these days.
The Future Bites is good, but it admittedly did not have a long shelf life for me. It's good, but it just doesn't compare to most of the album he has done as a solo artist and with Porcupine Tree.
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Started the solo journey last night. I grabbed the headphones and spun HCE. What a beautiful, melancholic journey! Why have I waited this many years to hear it again?
Maybe the best thing about a new release from an artist I love is that it prompts me to revisit the discography.
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Maybe the best thing about a new release from an artist I love is that it prompts me to revisit the discography.
I usually do the same. But in this case, I've been binging on PT lately, not SW solo.
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Maybe the best thing about a new release from an artist I love is that it prompts me to revisit the discography.
I usually do the same. But in this case, I've been binging on PT lately, not SW solo.
Same here. I haven't listened to so much Porcupine Tree in years.
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Maybe the best thing about a new release from an artist I love is that it prompts me to revisit the discography.
Agreed!
I think that is one reason I refer to some of my favorites are "retired favorites," because I don't get those new studio albums anymore to prompt me to give the older stuff a go as much, thus those bands/artists find less time in my CD player than they used to.
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Steven Wilson takes aim at shredders: “That’s not music. That’s sport”
(https://www.guitarworld.com/news/steven-wilson-shred-sport-not-music)
“I love that people can play like that, but the fact is they feel the need to remind everyone they can play like that constantly – to me, that’s not music. That’s sport.”
I wonder how he feels about prog metal players, like John Petrucci, or even his friend Jordan Rudess, with whom he's shared a stage with before.
-Marc.
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That has to be a quote from 15 years ago. :lol
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His take should not surprise anyone. He has always been on record as not being a fan of shredders. Even when working with guys like Jordan Rudess and Guthrie Govan, he usually kept their playing pretty restrained (relative to their skills). I remember the story about the making of one of the solo albums Govan played on where Wilson directly him several times to slow down. :lol :lol To me, this is not a matter of right or wrong, but a matter of taste. He is not a fan of shredding in general. Some are. Not a big deal.
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Everytime I hear someone complaining about shredders it reminds be of Dave Mustaine at the Drew Carey Show :lol
https://youtu.be/BJTqvNLQlG0?t=102
But yeah, Wilson has been vocal before about not liking the style. Nothing wrong with that
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I wonder how he feels about prog metal players, like John Petrucci, or even his friend Jordan Rudess, with whom he's shared a stage with before.
-Marc.
I'm sure he absolutely respects their ability, but not a fan of their style of music in general. Same with Guthrie Govan I'm sure.
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Started the solo journey last night. I grabbed the headphones and spun HCE. What a beautiful, melancholic journey! Why have I waited this many years to hear it again?
Maybe the best thing about a new release from an artist I love is that it prompts me to revisit the discography.
This. Been on a huge PT/SW kick for the past few weeks and have totally 'rediscovered' a love for a handful of records I'd gone years without listening to.
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His take should not surprise anyone. He has always been on record as not being a fan of shredders. Even when working with guys like Jordan Rudess and Guthrie Govan, he usually kept their playing pretty restrained (relative to their skills). I remember the story about the making of one of the solo albums Govan played on where Wilson directly him several times to slow down. :lol :lol To me, this is not a matter of right or wrong, but a matter of taste. He is not a fan of shredding in general. Some are. Not a big deal.
Def not a big deal.
I love Steven, but he totally cracks me up.
The dude spent two decades churning out one massive, bloated, prog-indebted masterpiece after another, but dislikes the word 'prog.'
The dude has numerous tracks with minutes of 'shredding' in his catalog, but he dosen't like shredding.
That all said, I am totally with him.
When it comes to music, I've long embraced the fact that I am essentially a walking contradiction.
I'll rail against Malmsteen, but totally embrace Petrucci. I'll dismiss a band the second I hear 'growling,' and then I'll get in my car and blast Opeth all the way home from work. I have no use for bands that wear masks on stage, but I freaking love KISS.
I've read a ton of interviews over the years and Steven is, without a doubt, a quirky guy...I suspect we'd get along swimmingly ;)
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Steven Wilson takes aim at shredders: “That’s not music. That’s sport”
(https://www.guitarworld.com/news/steven-wilson-shred-sport-not-music)
“I love that people can play like that, but the fact is they feel the need to remind everyone they can play like that constantly – to me, that’s not music. That’s sport.”
I wonder how he feels about prog metal players, like John Petrucci, or even his friend Jordan Rudess, with whom he's shared a stage with before.
-Marc.
I wonder if this is more in reference to YouTubers who go ahead and memorize a fast song in less than 24h rather than at compossers like JP who shred as part of their way of playing. Not a dig at those YT players by any mean - that's absolute talent and dedication. It also comes across as speed-runners to me though.
In general SW is probably guilty of having a rather self-righteus approach in his younger days. For a guy guy who used to smash iPods for fun and wrote a song titled "4 chords that made a million" he also as been enamored with streaming and writing pop songs in recent years. I wonder if he cringes at some of the things he used to say.
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Wilson likes talking out both sides of his mouth depending on where he's at in his career and what he is promoting.
And yes, I am going to use an example involving Taylor Swift (because I love to talk about her :lol).
Early last year, when SW was in full "promote The Future Bites" mode, which was more of a pop album than normal for him, he talked about how Swift's Folklore was his favorite album of 2020, an album that had gone to number 1.
Fast forward to last month when a Kate Bush song reappeared back in the charts and went to number 1 thanks to being featured on Stranger Things, and Wilson spouts off on social media about how she is the first artist in decades to hit number 1 who deserved it.
So wait, your favorite album of 2020, that went to number 1, didn't deserve to go to number 1? Oh, right, you are in hard rock/prog mode now with promoting the new Porcupine Tree record, so time to talk out of the other side. :lol :lol
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I don't really have an issue with his take here, but SW often comes off as an ass IMO
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I don't really have an issue with his take here, but SW often comes off as an ass IMO
It's a combination of his bluntness with saying what is on his mind but also he seems to have no ability to relate to other people having other opinions than his own. :lol
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I don't really have an issue with his take here, but SW often comes off as an ass IMO
It's a combination of his bluntness with saying what is on his mind but also he seems to have no ability to relate to other people having other opinions than his own. :lol
The whole thing with his comments following EVH's death felt really tone deaf. I mean, he's entitled to his opinion, but whether asked or not, I'd keep comments to myself if asked about someone a few weeks after their death.
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I don't really have an issue with his take here, but SW often comes off as an ass IMO
It's a combination of his bluntness with saying what is on his mind but also he seems to have no ability to relate to other people having other opinions than his own. :lol
The whole thing with his comments following EVH's death felt really tone deaf. I mean, he's entitled to his opinion, but whether asked or not, I'd keep comments to myself if asked about someone a few weeks after their death.
Yeah, that was in pretty bad taste if you ask me. That's a situation where if you have nothing nice to say about him, say nothing at all
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I love what he does 95% of the time at least, but I don't even trust SW's takes on his own music anymore. I don't remember the exact context, but a few months or maybe a year ago I remember an interview in which he suggested that, in hindsight, Raven was let down by the fact that he'd gone too hard on the classic prog influences. Fuck you, Steven—I love that album!
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I don't remember the exact context, but a few months or maybe a year ago I remember an interview in which he suggested that, in hindsight, Raven was let down by the fact that he'd gone too hard on the classic prog influences.
I agree with this. :lol
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I love what he does 95% of the time at least, but I don't even trust SW's takes on his own music anymore. I don't remember the exact context, but a few months or maybe a year ago I remember an interview in which he suggested that, in hindsight, Raven was let down by the fact that he'd gone too hard on the classic prog influences. Fuck you, Steven—I love that album!
And in a live setting, he has stated to several audiences while introducing the title track that he thought it was the best thing he had ever written.
But OTOH, I get how tastes, even of your own output, can change. What I thought was the best thing I had ever written when I was 23 now seems fairly puerile.
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Wilson still speaks very highly of the song The Raven That Refused to Sing. I remember him specifically calling that one of the songs of which he is the most proud, so while the rest of the album might be too retro for him in retrospect, he still loves that song.
And I don't think the whole album is too retro. Luminol and The Watchmaker are clear callbacks to 70s prog, but I don't think the rest of the album is at all.
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I don't really have an issue with his take here, but SW often comes off as an ass IMO
It's a combination of his bluntness with saying what is on his mind but also he seems to have no ability to relate to other people having other opinions than his own. :lol
The whole thing with his comments following EVH's death felt really tone deaf. I mean, he's entitled to his opinion, but whether asked or not, I'd keep comments to myself if asked about someone a few weeks after their death.
When Wolfgang was on the Bill Burr podcast he got into this a little bit and how it disappointed him since he was a huge PT fan. I think he mentioned they spoke about it on the phone and squashed it (don't quote me, it's been a while since I heard this podcast)
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Karolis is correct. They did talk and worked it out.
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That was a nice revelation that Wolfgang was a fan of SW's music. Now, if Wolfie would take a cue from Steven and kick start a project to remix VH's A Different Kind of Truth so we get a cleaner and less modern day loud mix, that would be nice. :biggrin:
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I've been on a PT and SW kick lately for some reason. It's quite nice to revisit his solo work after so long and see how it's aged. Insurgentes still has got an excellent atmosphere, and although I find it a little inconsistent towards the middle, it's probably his second best solo record. Grace for Drowning I was expecting to love less than I used to but no, it remains his best album for me - just banger after banger. H.C.E. I loved when it came out but didn't revisit it much afterwards, but damn what an album. I was listening to the Unreleased Electronic Music compilation today for the first time, and it's got some pretty interesting ideas - fans of IDM will dig it. I'll give The Raven a go later today.
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I don't really have an issue with his take here, but SW often comes off as an ass IMO
It's a combination of his bluntness with saying what is on his mind but also he seems to have no ability to relate to other people having other opinions than his own. :lol
The whole thing with his comments following EVH's death felt really tone deaf. I mean, he's entitled to his opinion, but whether asked or not, I'd keep comments to myself if asked about someone a few weeks after their death.
When Wolfgang was on the Bill Burr podcast he got into this a little bit and how it disappointed him since he was a huge PT fan. I think he mentioned they spoke about it on the phone and squashed it (don't quote me, it's been a while since I heard this podcast)
I'm glad they squashed it but Wolfie also gets very defensive and offended when people say anything not positive about his father or him.
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I don't really have an issue with his take here, but SW often comes off as an ass IMO
It's a combination of his bluntness with saying what is on his mind but also he seems to have no ability to relate to other people having other opinions than his own. :lol
The whole thing with his comments following EVH's death felt really tone deaf. I mean, he's entitled to his opinion, but whether asked or not, I'd keep comments to myself if asked about someone a few weeks after their death.
When Wolfgang was on the Bill Burr podcast he got into this a little bit and how it disappointed him since he was a huge PT fan. I think he mentioned they spoke about it on the phone and squashed it (don't quote me, it's been a while since I heard this podcast)
I'm glad they squashed it but Wolfie also gets very defensive and offended when people say anything not positive about his father or him.
In my hunt for the Bill Burr podcast episode with Wolfgang VH talking about Steven Wilson, I came across one he did last week talking a little bit about Prog metal. In it Bill was praising the new PT album to high skies. Was kinda surprised he was a fan of PT, I know he's spoken about Meshuggah before and in this episode he does mention that he hasn't listened to the new album yet. A fan also recommends him Cynic.
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I've been on a PT and SW kick lately for some reason. It's quite nice to revisit his solo work after so long and see how it's aged. Insurgentes still has got an excellent atmosphere, and although I find it a little inconsistent towards the middle, it's probably his second best solo record. Grace for Drowning I was expecting to love less than I used to but no, it remains his best album for me - just banger after banger. H.C.E. I loved when it came out but didn't revisit it much afterwards, but damn what an album. I was listening to the Unreleased Electronic Music compilation today for the first time, and it's got some pretty interesting ideas - fans of IDM will dig it. I'll give The Raven a go later today.
As great as Hand Cannot Erase is, I find that I do not listen to the majority of it that much. I still think Routine is one of the best songs SW has ever written, but as a whole I just do not return to that record nearly as much as many of his others.
Grace for Drowning is still just unreal from start to finish. I adore the vibe of that record.
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I've been on a PT and SW kick lately for some reason. It's quite nice to revisit his solo work after so long and see how it's aged. Insurgentes still has got an excellent atmosphere, and although I find it a little inconsistent towards the middle, it's probably his second best solo record. Grace for Drowning I was expecting to love less than I used to but no, it remains his best album for me - just banger after banger. H.C.E. I loved when it came out but didn't revisit it much afterwards, but damn what an album. I was listening to the Unreleased Electronic Music compilation today for the first time, and it's got some pretty interesting ideas - fans of IDM will dig it. I'll give The Raven a go later today.
As great as Hand Cannot Erase is, I find that I do not listen to the majority of it that much. I still think Routine is one of the best songs SW has ever written, but as a whole I just do not return to that record nearly as much as many of his others.
Grace for Drowning is still just unreal from start to finish. I adore the vibe of that record.
I'm doing a bit of a revisit too...Insurgentes is very good, but it doesn't blow me away. I hadn't listened to Grace for Drowning in a while, and I found it to be even better than I remembered. Agreed on the vibe, quite special.
Will revisit Raven shortly.
In general, my favorite is probably Hand.Cannot.Erase. I do have a soft spot for To the Bone too. Always enjoyed it.
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I've been on a PT and SW kick lately for some reason. It's quite nice to revisit his solo work after so long and see how it's aged. Insurgentes still has got an excellent atmosphere, and although I find it a little inconsistent towards the middle, it's probably his second best solo record. Grace for Drowning I was expecting to love less than I used to but no, it remains his best album for me - just banger after banger. H.C.E. I loved when it came out but didn't revisit it much afterwards, but damn what an album. I was listening to the Unreleased Electronic Music compilation today for the first time, and it's got some pretty interesting ideas - fans of IDM will dig it. I'll give The Raven a go later today.
As great as Hand Cannot Erase is, I find that I do not listen to the majority of it that much. I still think Routine is one of the best songs SW has ever written, but as a whole I just do not return to that record nearly as much as many of his others.
Grace for Drowning is still just unreal from start to finish. I adore the vibe of that record.
I'm doing a bit of a revisit too...Insurgentes is very good, but it doesn't blow me away. I hadn't listened to Grace for Drowning in a while, and I found it to be even better than I remembered. Agreed on the vibe, quite special.
Will revisit Raven shortly.
In general, my favorite is probably Hand.Cannot.Erase. I do have a soft spot for To the Bone too. Always enjoyed it.
They're all great and special to me, except for The Future Bites. Was a little worried SW was loosing me, but all faith has been restored with the latest PT album. I'm really interested to see what he has in store for his next solo album. I'm sure it will be nothing like either TFB or C/C.
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Bumpety bump
So apparently SW's book/biography is out for some time now. I didn't even know he was writing one. Has anyone here read it? Is it any good?
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Bumpety bump
So apparently SW's book/biography is out for some time now. I didn't even know he was writing one. Has anyone here read it? Is it any good?
I have had SW read it for me on Audible.... very enjoyable experience
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I'm almost done with it. It's been a pretty enjoyable read so far. If I had more time, I probably would have read it in a day or two. It is a book that I feel I can also read a chapter or two at a time and be good. Nothing really shocking in it, but if you like Steven, and I do, it's an enjoyable book.
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It's pretty good, the audiobook version at least. Just skip the short story thing at the end. It's rubbish :biggrin:
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How does it compare to Rich Wilson's book on PT? I remember Rich specifically saying that Steven was trying to prevent as many people as possible not contribute to Rich's book. Never understood why unless Steven had already been planning to do this book when he got wind of Rich doing his, but I don't know if that's truly the case.
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Thanks for your feedback, I just bought the ebook. Now to find the time to read it. :D
... Nothing really shocking in it, but if you like Steven, and I do, it's an enjoyable book.
I like him, but I also think he's a smartass and sometimes a douche. So let's see how that translates into his writing. ;)
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Thanks for your feedback, I just bought the ebook. Now to find the time to read it. :D
... Nothing really shocking in it, but if you like Steven, and I do, it's an enjoyable book.
I like him, but I also think he's a smartass and sometimes a douche. So let's see how that translates into his writing. ;)
It's actually not that bad. I think the "douche" comes just from being British (and he explains that several times about how dry British humor is). I'm about to finish it reading and I highly recommend this book.
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Just finished the audiobook of Limited Edition of One and I absolutely loved it. Probably the best musician autobiography I've heard in awhile (I enjoyed Bono's new one too when he wasn't going on about politics or Africa). He's very candid and I enjoy the Lists segments dotted throughout which was a unique aspect for a book like this. I think hearing it rather than just reading it also made it a much better experience since he narrated it himself and could impose his natural inflections into it.
Also the story at the end for his new album Harmony Codex sounds interesting and I'm curious how the music will be presented to explain it.
Very highly recommended.
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I love musician biographies and I've been interested in reading this. I didn't realize there was an audiobook option. I've never listened to an audiobook but I listen to a ton of podcasts so I think I'll try this book as my first intro into audiobooks.
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been into reading music biographies of late with Fates Warning and King's X.
I told my wife his new Autobiography is on my holiday gift list.
Although I was hoping, but I guess there isn't much about The Dear Hunter and Casey (they opened for PT back in 2010), but so be it.
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:hat
I have had SW read it for me on Audible.... very enjoyable experience
Thanks for the tip! Just downloaded it, gonna be rocking this bad boy during slower parts of my upcoming night shifts. I just read some forum posts about Steven promoting his upcoming mid 2023 album The Harmony Codex. Wilson claimed: "I think people who like Porcupine Tree are going to love the direction of this new album. It’s much more epic and uncompromising. It’s more complex and unpredictable to a degree." which is music in my ears. I enjoyed both To The Bone and The Future Bites, mainly because I took SW's advice and recognized them for what they were - tributes to the kind of 80s/90s pop music that Wilson grew up with and that formed him artistically. However, my personal favorites of his career are the full on progressive tour de force heavy weights The Raven That Refused To Sing with it's jazzy dark atmosphere and the tragic yet super progressive and multi-layered Hand. Cannot. Erase.. I think what I miss most in Stevens newer albums are session musicians such as Marco Minnemann, Adam Holzman, Nick Beggs and Theo Travis - people that play what Steven composes, but outrank him (and virtually almost everyone else) in their respective fields of expertise. I don't understand Stevens urge to take over most of the bass playing himself for example... it's cool and all but he just ain't a bass player. He is a composition, arrangement and theoretical genius with a very passable skill set on several instruments, but the session musicians he had working on his albums in the early 2010s were just better at executing his material. So what I ask myself is: Will Steven ever return to the MOA of recruiting the very finest musical craftsmen for his work and delegate the actual playing? Because that in my opinion is how he achieved his greatest milestones. I'd be glad to hear your opinions on this.
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I totally agree. Have been saying the exact same thing to my friends. Confidence is great. But SW seems to believe a bit too much in his own so to say 'godlike status' many fans have given him. And yes, he is a great songwriter, sound professor and a good guitarist and vocalist (not a real pop singer though). His best work is often his best because better players have contributed. Don't forget about Ninet Tayeb and Guthrie Govan as well. Or the Porcupine Tree members. They all add so much flavour to his ideas.
I hope he'll atrract some great musicians (he's been having a lot of fun with Mike Vennart on Instagram, so maybe they have been in touch for the record?). Anyway I like the description he has given, but no more 'instant buys' from me.
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While contributors have always been a big part of what makes his music great, I don't think he needs musicians better than him per se to make it great. I think it is fair to say that Gavin Harrison has been the only member of Porcupine Tree that would be called technically proficient (relative to his peers) on his instrument of choice, yet Porcupine Tree was awesome when it was Wilson, Chris Maitland, Richard Barbieri and Colin Edwin. Yes, the contributions of all have helped make PT what it was and is, but the awesomeness of Richard Barbieri, whom I would call Wilson's greatest contributor/band member ever, is proof that you don't need to be a players' player to excel when it comes to working with Wilson, as he is more of a textures and sounds guy than a player, but he always does such an awesome job.
When it comes to guitar, Wilson is more than good enough to carry the load on any of his albums in that regard. He might not be a technical wizard like Guthrie Govan, whose contributions to The Raven and HCE were definitely great, but his playing is fantastic. I am not saying he is David Gilmour, but like Gilmour, Wilson is living proof that you can crush it on the guitar despite not playing as many notes as possible.
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I think it is fair to say that Gavin Harrison has been the only member of Gavin Harrison
I agree, this is a fair assumption.
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:lol
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Damn it. :lol :lol
My points still stand, however.
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:hat
I have had SW read it for me on Audible.... very enjoyable experience
Thanks for the tip! Just downloaded it, gonna be rocking this bad boy during slower parts of my upcoming night shifts. I just read some forum posts about Steven promoting his upcoming mid 2023 album The Harmony Codex. Wilson claimed: "I think people who like Porcupine Tree are going to love the direction of this new album. It’s much more epic and uncompromising. It’s more complex and unpredictable to a degree." which is music in my ears. I enjoyed both To The Bone and The Future Bites, mainly because I took SW's advice and recognized them for what they were - tributes to the kind of 80s/90s pop music that Wilson grew up with and that formed him artistically. However, my personal favorites of his career are the full on progressive tour de force heavy weights The Raven That Refused To Sing with it's jazzy dark atmosphere and the tragic yet super progressive and multi-layered Hand. Cannot. Erase.. I think what I miss most in Stevens newer albums are session musicians such as Marco Minnemann, Adam Holzman, Nick Beggs and Theo Travis - people that play what Steven composes, but outrank him (and virtually almost everyone else) in their respective fields of expertise. I don't understand Stevens urge to take over most of the bass playing himself for example... it's cool and all but he just ain't a bass player. He is a composition, arrangement and theoretical genius with a very passable skill set on several instruments, but the session musicians he had working on his albums in the early 2010s were just better at executing his material. So what I ask myself is: Will Steven ever return to the MOA of recruiting the very finest musical craftsmen for his work and delegate the actual playing? Because that in my opinion is how he achieved his greatest milestones. I'd be glad to hear your opinions on this.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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The Harmony Codex in 2023 will include Ninet again.
https://twitter.com/StevenWilsonHQ/status/1596628783033118720
"Myself and Ninet Tayeb recently recorded a new song together for my work in progress next album The Harmony Codex, to be released in 2023. In the meantime here’s a reminder of us in the studio in 2017 recording ‘Pariah’, with one of those incredible spine tingling Ninet moments!"
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more about it
https://www.innerviews.org/inner/porcupine-tree
What can listeners expect from your forthcoming 2023 solo album, The Harmony Codex?
It's going to maintain a lot of the musical vocabulary from The Future Bites, but it's going back into a more conceptual world, which is less about concise pop songs and more about experimentation. So, in the most simplistic terms, it might be somewhere between Hand. Cannot. Erase. and The Future Bites, but not like either of those records.
I'm really excited about it. I say that every time I have a new batch of songs, but there's really something unique about these songs. I have a feeling it could be a great record. I think the new album feels almost like the next step from The Future Bites, which was very streamlined and had a very strong pop sensibility. So, I asked myself “What am I going to do next, given that? Okay, I’m going to take those elements but place them withing something more ambitious.” Of course, everything informs everything else. So, I have tracks that have spiritual jazz elements, electronics, moments of progressive rock, voice manipulation, and modern DSP processing.
I’m so proud of The Future Bites, that I feel I want to do something different, because I can’t do anything better in that space. It’s perfect for what it is. I’ve only felt that way a few times in my career. When I made Hand. Cannot. Erase., I thought I couldn’t make a better conceptual, old-fashioned rock album. I don’t think I could better it now. I know how divisive The Future Bites was, given its allegiance to compact pop forms. But I always remind myself that the people who complain the loudest are in the minority. It’s usually the same 10-15 people. The actuality is The Future Bites was one of the most well-received albums of my entire career, broadly speaking.
I think people who like Porcupine Tree are going to love the direction of this new album. It’s much more epic and uncompromising. It’s more complex and unpredictable to a degree. After people experience the mercurial nature of this Porcupine Tree album, I think they’re going to look at the new solo album and think highly of it.
I wish I could have done The Future Bites tour, but COVID-19 got in the way. When the new album comes out, probably mid-2023, I’m going to be touring that record, as well as the new one. Some of the ideas I had for The Future Bites shows will be part of my next solo tour, as well. Between that and the Porcupine Tree album and tour, I think people have a lot to look forward to.
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Rick Beato interviews SW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03vThmG46A8
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Rick Beato interviews SW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03vThmG46A8
OMG, I was just going to post this. Watched it this evening. Fantastic, and well worth the hour and change.
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Rick Beato interviews SW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03vThmG46A8
I don’t always love SW’s music, but he and Rick Beato are two people I could listen to talking about music for hours.
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Rick Beato interviews SW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03vThmG46A8
Great interview thanks for posting.
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Fantastic interview. :metal
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For those who never saw it, Insurgentes is now up on his YouTube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u9RL696xms
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CljVo5LDE8E/
The Insurgentes documentary / road-movie Lasse Hoile made in 2008-9 about the recording of my first solo album has now been remastered and can be viewed on my YouTube channel, link in bio. It’s a snapshot of where I was at that time in my life - having recently turned 40, this period was about taking some new creative paths, and both my solo career and work remixing classic albums began around this time. We had a lot of fun doing the film but it was not the happiest time for me in my personal life (which definitely comes across), plus not everyone got what we thought was surreal and funny. So I think it created an impression of me as a rather dour and over-serious individual that for some people is - understandably perhaps - still their overriding impression of me! Still I’m proud of what we did, and I believe it remains quite unique in the pantheon of music documentaries.
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Rick Beato interviews SW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03vThmG46A8
I don’t always love SW’s music, but he and Rick Beato are two people I could listen to talking about music for hours.
For sure. And that interview showed how good Beato is as he didn't try to talk too much or make the interview all about him. He asked questions and then let Wilson take as much time as he needed to answer.
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Listen to Steven talk about TikTok had me laughing and thinking, "He's right."
Also I never knew about how playlist help artists without ever really making an album. It's how to make money.
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I have to admit that when he was talking about how young fans are more about songs now and don't really have artists they are active fans of, I did think, "Well, there is this young woman named Taylor Swift..." :lol :lol :biggrin: :biggrin:
By and large, though, I think he is right, but there are always exceptions.
Funny too as he made a point I did to a friend a while back, albeit in a slightly different way. Mine was that 5.1 doesn't always work well because sometimes it's the way the instruments and vocals all sound together that create the magic, rather than there being too much separation between them and isolating one of them too much, similar to how you wouldn't like individual ingredients from certain meals on their own, but when mixed all together, it can make for a delicious meal.
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There was another recent interview where he AND the interviewer both mused for a few minutes over the fact that there were no modern “rock” bands.
Whether you like them or not, my mind kept screaming “FOO FIGHTERS DUMBASS!!!”
So ya, he doesn’t always think think these things through.
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I suspect they mean in the sense of modern rock bands who have hit the scene in modern times. Foo Fighters have been around since the mid 90s, so if still being around means you are modern, does that mean The Rolling Stones and The Who are modern? :P
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I have to admit that when he was talking about how young fans are more about songs now and don't really have artists they are active fans of, I did think, "Well, there is this young woman named Taylor Swift..." :lol :lol :biggrin: :biggrin:
By and large, though, I think he is right, but there are always exceptions.
Funny too as he made a point I did to a friend a while back, albeit in a slightly different way. Mine was that 5.1 doesn't always work well because sometimes it's the way the instruments and vocals all sound together that create the magic, rather than there being too much separation between them and isolating one of them too much, similar to how you wouldn't like individual ingredients from certain meals on their own, but when mixed all together, it can make for a delicious meal.
Yeah, my daughter is very much a fan of Taylor Swift and other artists. Not sure how accurate that characterization is of the broader population, but I’m sure lots of people stream songs frequently without becoming fans of the artist. That’s not too different than how people used to know songs from the radio even if they never purchased anything from that artist.
I also kept thinking how the buy in for 5.1/Atmos/7.whatever is just too much even for someone like me who is a passionate music listener. I’d have to totally redo a living space to accommodate something like that, and then how often would I sit in the middle of that ring of speakers to listen to something? I’m doing most of my listening on the go, while doing chores, or working at a desk. Half the time I’m listening to music off computer speakers I bought at Walmart years ago. These surround formats seem to he so niche that I can’t imagine them ever becoming the future of music. I think SW is right that there is more likely to be two extremes. People who just listen off their phones and people who go all in on high end stuff. Unfortunately that will probably squeeze people like me more towards the low-end audio as the high end just won’t ever be practical for me.
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I have to admit that when he was talking about how young fans are more about songs now and don't really have artists they are active fans of, I did think, "Well, there is this young woman named Taylor Swift..." :lol :lol :biggrin: :biggrin:
By and large, though, I think he is right, but there are always exceptions.
Funny too as he made a point I did to a friend a while back, albeit in a slightly different way. Mine was that 5.1 doesn't always work well because sometimes it's the way the instruments and vocals all sound together that create the magic, rather than there being too much separation between them and isolating one of them too much, similar to how you wouldn't like individual ingredients from certain meals on their own, but when mixed all together, it can make for a delicious meal.
Yeah, my daughter is very much a fan of Taylor Swift and other artists. Not sure how accurate that characterization is of the broader population, but I’m sure lots of people stream songs frequently without becoming fans of the artist. That’s not too different than how people used to know songs from the radio even if they never purchased anything from that artist.
I also kept thinking how the buy in for 5.1/Atmos/7.whatever is just too much even for someone like me who is a passionate music listener. I’d have to totally redo a living space to accommodate something like that, and then how often would I sit in the middle of that ring of speakers to listen to something? I’m doing most of my listening on the go, while doing chores, or working at a desk. Half the time I’m listening to music off computer speakers I bought at Walmart years ago. These surround formats seem to he so niche that I can’t imagine them ever becoming the future of music. I think SW is right that there is more likely to be two extremes. People who just listen off their phones and people who go all in on high end stuff. Unfortunately that will probably squeeze people like me more towards the low-end audio as the high end just won’t ever be practical for me.
100%. I do most of my listening at my computer or in my car. Would I love a kick ass Atmos system at home? Of course, but like you said, even if I had one I'd probably rarely use it as I'm always working or on the go.
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I have to admit that when he was talking about how young fans are more about songs now and don't really have artists they are active fans of, I did think, "Well, there is this young woman named Taylor Swift..." :lol :lol :biggrin: :biggrin:
By and large, though, I think he is right, but there are always exceptions.
Funny too as he made a point I did to a friend a while back, albeit in a slightly different way. Mine was that 5.1 doesn't always work well because sometimes it's the way the instruments and vocals all sound together that create the magic, rather than there being too much separation between them and isolating one of them too much, similar to how you wouldn't like individual ingredients from certain meals on their own, but when mixed all together, it can make for a delicious meal.
Or Billie Eilish. But they're definitely the exception. This 52 year old agrees with most of what the 55 year old SW is saying LOL
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I have to admit that when he was talking about how young fans are more about songs now and don't really have artists they are active fans of, I did think, "Well, there is this young woman named Taylor Swift..." :lol :lol :biggrin: :biggrin:
Or Billie Eilish. But they're definitely the exception.
It's hard to agree that young people don't form fanbases for music any more when I see BTS trending every single fucking day on Twitter.
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I am with you guys about the surround sound thing. I finally got the super duper one I always wanted last year, but I rarely have the urge to put on one of my 5.1s and sit down with it.
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I am with you guys about the surround sound thing. I finally got the super duper one I always wanted last year, but I rarely have the urge to put on one of my 5.1s and sit down with it.
I hear this on one side, but here is the other. One of the reasons I love Steven Wilson is because when I want to have an amazing audio experience, it's his work that I almost always reach for and put on in my system. If an artist has great 5.1 stuff I'm far more likely to listen to that artist's work.
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I am with you guys about the surround sound thing. I finally got the super duper one I always wanted last year, but I rarely have the urge to put on one of my 5.1s and sit down with it.
I hear this on one side, but here is the other. One of the reasons I love Steven Wilson is because when I want to have an amazing audio experience, it's his work that I almost always reach for and put on in my system. If an artist has great 5.1 stuff I'm far more likely to listen to that artist's work.
Agreed. I rarely get the opportunity to experience my 5.1 stuff, but when I do, I reach for the stuff that is mixed extremely well. And almost anything SW has touched qualifies.
I have some pieces that are very poor surround mixes, and I doubt I will ever reach for those again. Systematic Chaos is a good example
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I am with you guys about the surround sound thing. I finally got the super duper one I always wanted last year, but I rarely have the urge to put on one of my 5.1s and sit down with it.
I hear this on one side, but here is the other. One of the reasons I love Steven Wilson is because when I want to have an amazing audio experience, it's his work that I almost always reach for and put on in my system. If an artist has great 5.1 stuff I'm far more likely to listen to that artist's work.
Agreed. I rarely get the opportunity to experience my 5.1 stuff, but when I do, I reach for the stuff that is mixed extremely well. And almost anything SW has touched qualifies.
I have some pieces that are very poor surround mixes, and I doubt I will ever reach for those again. Systematic Chaos is a good example
I have a 5.1 system in my basement, but I think Systematic Chaos is the only 5.1 album I have and I can't remember the last time I listened to it on the 5.1, likely the day I received it and I didn't think it sounded anything special. I never bought another 5.1 album. I do however have plenty of live concert videos mixed in 5.1 that I enjoy. I guess my point is, now that I see it written out, I wonder if SC ruined my experience on 5.1 albums because it just wasn't mixed well enough for it.
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I am with you guys about the surround sound thing. I finally got the super duper one I always wanted last year, but I rarely have the urge to put on one of my 5.1s and sit down with it.
I hear this on one side, but here is the other. One of the reasons I love Steven Wilson is because when I want to have an amazing audio experience, it's his work that I almost always reach for and put on in my system. If an artist has great 5.1 stuff I'm far more likely to listen to that artist's work.
Agreed. I rarely get the opportunity to experience my 5.1 stuff, but when I do, I reach for the stuff that is mixed extremely well. And almost anything SW has touched qualifies.
I have some pieces that are very poor surround mixes, and I doubt I will ever reach for those again. Systematic Chaos is a good example
I have a 5.1 system in my basement, but I think Systematic Chaos is the only 5.1 album I have and I can't remember the last time I listened to it on the 5.1, likely the day I received it and I didn't think it sounded anything special. I never bought another 5.1 album. I do however have plenty of live concert videos mixed in 5.1 that I enjoy. I guess my point is, now that I see it written out, I wonder if SC ruined my experience on 5.1 albums because it just wasn't mixed well enough for it.
And when it comes to the opposite end of the spectrum, I would love to one day be at those theaters in London Steven mentioned as he debuted one of his new recordings, would be an amazing experience I'm sure.
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My only issue is I wonder if my ears are good enough to truly enjoy such high quality immersive sound. I feel like I may not be able to appreciate such things. (it's a big reason why I don't spend big money on speakers or headphones and usually just get mid range hardware)
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My only issue is I wonder if my ears are good enough to truly enjoy such high quality immersive sound. I feel like I may not be able to appreciate such things. (it's a big reason why I don't spend big money on speakers or headphones and usually just get mid range hardware)
With a good system it's not just about the higher quality audio files. It's about the split and the mix. You don't have sound coming from left and right. You have sounds separated out and coming from every direction. It allows you to hear and appreciate things in the music you probably would never have noticed otherwise.
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I was listening to something on Amazon Music that was mixed for Atmos the other day on headphones. I know it’s not the same thing as with a proper surround setup, but the difference in the blend of instruments was jarring. I didn’t really care for it as it seemed to take some of the fullness out of the sound. While I think the concept is interesting, most of the time we don’t hear sounds in an immersive surround way with things coming from all directions, so I think it’s always going to feel a little bit gimmicky (like 3D movies).
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I was listening to something on Amazon Music that was mixed for Atmos the other day on headphones. I know it’s not the same thing as with a proper surround setup, but the difference in the blend of instruments was jarring. I didn’t really care for it as it seemed to take some of the fullness out of the sound. While I think the concept is interesting, most of the time we don’t hear sounds in an immersive surround way with things coming from all directions, so I think it’s always going to feel a little bit gimmicky (like 3D movies).
I can see the gimmicky side of it, especially in how certain things are mixed, but at the end of the day I love that. Mainly because it allows me to really pick out a groove or an instrument I'm really liking in that moment and just focus on that.
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I am with you guys about the surround sound thing. I finally got the super duper one I always wanted last year, but I rarely have the urge to put on one of my 5.1s and sit down with it.
I hear this on one side, but here is the other. One of the reasons I love Steven Wilson is because when I want to have an amazing audio experience, it's his work that I almost always reach for and put on in my system. If an artist has great 5.1 stuff I'm far more likely to listen to that artist's work.
I hear this. On the rare occasions when I do crank up the 5.1, it is either a PT/SW album or one where he did the 5.1, like the Yes ones from the early 70s.
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Doing fresh listens of Insurgentes the last few days, and I always come with realizing how good it is and wondering why I don't listen to it more often. The next four solo albums he did all being better is probably a big reason (hello to Zantera, who I know will be by to dispute that :P), but Insurgentes really is a damn good record.
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Doing fresh listens of Insurgentes the last few days, and I always come with realizing how good it is and wondering why I don't listen to it more often. The next four solo albums he did all being better is probably a big reason (hello to Zantera, who I know will be by to dispute that :P), but Insurgentes really is a damn good record.
I'd rank Insurgentes higher than both GfD and the Raven as I'm way more into a post-punk sound than an old school prog sound. Salvaging is one of my all time favorites of his solo songs, and the whole album has a really unique vibe that I just connect with.
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I go back and forth between Insurgentes or GFD as his best solo album but GFD does have some filler (even if I love it) and Insurgentes just feels like the most 'fresh' out of his solo albums. It feels like a bunch of his styles coming together into one unique album. He's definitely gotten worse album by album after Grace IMO and I hope his next one is good but I really don't have much desire to revisit HCE, TTB or TFB these days.
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I am a MASSIVE fan of Grace for Drowning. I think it's one of the five best albums SW has ever done, from any project.
What's wild about Insurgentes is that it feels like the one SW solo album that could have been a PT album. Heck, Gavin Harrison even plays on most of it. But it still really doesn't sound that much like Porcupine Tree. The secret sauce that is Richard Barbieri being absent always makes a big difference in differentiating between Porcupine Tree and any other thing Wilson does, IMO.
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What's wild about Insurgentes is that it feels like the one SW solo album that could have been a PT album. Heck, Gavin Harrison even plays on most of it. But it still really doesn't sound that much like Porcupine Tree. The secret sauce that is Richard Barbieri being absent always makes a big difference in differentiating between Porcupine Tree and any other thing Wilson does, IMO.
This is pretty much why I'm not that into it either. It doesn't stand out from PT as much as his other albums, and without the G.O.A.T. Barbieri it just feels like something's missing.
No Twilight Within The Courts Of The Sun is a fuckin' banger though.
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I am a MASSIVE fan of Grace for Drowning. I think it's one of the five best albums SW has ever done, from any project.
This, it's such a weird yet delicate album, noisy and beautiful. Rudess' playing on it is just magnificent.
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Insurgentes is a great album! Actually all his solo albums are great for me except The Future Bites - which was just kinda ok. Based on his description of the The Harmony Codex I'm quite excited for it.
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The Raven That Refused to Sing is 10 years old today.
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The Raven That Refused to Sing is 10 years old today.
Still one of my favorite albums of all time really..
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Wow, a decade since Drive Home floored me.
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Looks like The Harmony Codex will be released in September. There was a leak somewhere that I haven't personally seen but that's apparently what it points to.
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The Raven That Refused to Sing is 10 years old today.
Hands down the best SW solo album. Can't believe it's been ten years.
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I can't remember where I read it, but Wilson apparently wasn't thrilled about the slow rollouts with both The Future Bites and Closure/Continuation, so I won't be surprised if this album drops with no songs having been released prior (or maybe one a week or two before). This idea of a slow rollout with a few singles slowly dropping before the album hits the streets feels outdated. While I am sure the divisiveness of The Futures Bites will result in some fans of his solo work taking the "try before I buy" method, Wilson has enough equity built up to where he doesn't need to drop pre-release singles.
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https://theharmonycodex.com/
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What the hell, when I try to sign up it says your entry has been flagged as spam.
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The Harmony Codex Listening Party clip (no music) with comments from attendees.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CurqxZ5oDsC/
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I can't remember where I read it, but Wilson apparently wasn't thrilled about the slow rollouts with both The Future Bites and Closure/Continuation, so I won't be surprised if this album drops with no songs having been released prior (or maybe one a week or two before). This idea of a slow rollout with a few singles slowly dropping before the album hits the streets feels outdated. While I am sure the divisiveness of The Futures Bites will result in some fans of his solo work taking the "try before I buy" method, Wilson has enough equity built up to where he doesn't need to drop pre-release singles.
I remember how absolutely closed lipped DT used to be about their releases, not wanting a single note heard before release day. It definitely built up a certain amount of anticipation and mystery surrounding their albums.
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I can't remember where I read it, but Wilson apparently wasn't thrilled about the slow rollouts with both The Future Bites and Closure/Continuation, so I won't be surprised if this album drops with no songs having been released prior (or maybe one a week or two before). This idea of a slow rollout with a few singles slowly dropping before the album hits the streets feels outdated. While I am sure the divisiveness of The Futures Bites will result in some fans of his solo work taking the "try before I buy" method, Wilson has enough equity built up to where he doesn't need to drop pre-release singles.
I was never a fan of the way SW handled his releases, it feels like 20 different versions with different bonus songs on those various versions. Coming soon Harmony Codex black vinyl/yellow swirl edition which contains a new unreleased track that's a remix of an unmix of an unreleased track that was previously released on the limited blue cassette version of Hand. Cannot. Erase.
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That stuff can be irritating, I agree, but in the end, it's all about the tunes. :hat :hat
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It's the single released 8 months before the album release date that irks me. It kills momentum. Release the 1st single a month before the album release date.
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It's the single released 8 months before the album release date that irks me. It kills momentum. Release the 1st single a month before the album release date.
It's like artists/record labels are treating albums like they're blockbuster Hollywood films, which release teaser trailers 6-8 months ahead, and then two or three theatrical trailers in the 3-4 months leading up to the release date.
Some labels (looking at you Inside Out) have been on the train of releasing at least 3 singles for most new albums in the 2-3 months leading up to release, with the first one at time of reveal, another about a month later, and the a third one when the album is coming out. Like...we get it. And a single released on release date feels redundant to me. If you're already invested in the album, you're going to hear the whole thing that weekend anyway, so why bother with a "single" other than to make another promotional video (most of which are intangible graphics of lyrics floating in a void anyway).
I'd say *one* single at the time of reveal with pre-orders and press kits, and then release the album a month or six weeks later. These long, drawn-out waits between reveal and release are starting to make me forget what I've ordered and what's about to come out. Thankfully we've got the Album Release Date Calendar pinned in this forum, because otherwise, I'd be Googling a lot of album release dates for things that aren't due for another 3 or 4 months.
-Marc.
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I do think the main purpose of the early promotional videos is to kick start pre-orders, which help fund the manufacture of the album or other band activities (BBT indicated that pre-orders for Ingenious Devices would help find their upcoming tour). So you need people to be aware of an interested enough to buy it in advance. It makes sense to have a new video every several weeks if you have a longer pre-order campaign. But it is kind of annoying from a fan standpoint to get things slow dripped when you’d rather just wait for the whole album.
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I have to say, it's unlikely it comes to my area, but I'd *love* to be at one of the promotional screenings for the new album. If SW gets that in a proper setup anywhere near me and I'm chosen, I'm there.
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I do think the main purpose of the early promotional videos is to kick start pre-orders, which help fund the manufacture of the album or other band activities (BBT indicated that pre-orders for Ingenious Devices would help find their upcoming tour). So you need people to be aware of an interested enough to buy it in advance. It makes sense to have a new video every several weeks if you have a longer pre-order campaign. But it is kind of annoying from a fan standpoint to get things slow dripped when you’d rather just wait for the whole album.
In the case of Big Big Train, though, I think they're niche enough that they know their dedicated fans will pre-order anyway, and probably don't need much promotion to get their sales off the ground. If I recall, Ingenious Devices had two pre-release trailers, and a live video of "Atlantic Cable" from Aylesbury (which was used as the final track of the album). Not much in the way of singles or music videos, and I think it worked.
But I get what you mean - on one hand, it's a way to keep the band's upcoming release current in the minds of fans. I'm not sure if there are studies that prove if a lot of pre-release singles make a difference in sales or not. It would be very interesting to see how that could work, but the variables are so wild these days that it might be difficult. I also get that with the long lead-time and delays of manufacturing vinyl makes it difficult to have a "surprise" release of an album without having pre-orders fill the manufacturing minimums in those factories. Record labels probably want to be sure that they'll actually sell all the vinyl they make before having them made, so throwing out pre-orders 3-6 months ahead of time gives them more wiggle room in regards to release window. So many albums since COVID had their vinyl releases delayed because of manufacturing problems, and those issues still seem to happen, between the factories being backed up in production, and issues with world-wide distribution.
TL;DR - I get why they do it, but it just sucks sometimes. As for SW and his upcoming album - if he's got pre-release singles, I hope they don't make up a third of the final album. I know he's prone to shorter albums these days, so if THC ends up being 45-50 minutes and is only 7 or 8 tracks, doing three singles feels like I've heard a good chunk of the album already. This is why, if I do listen to pre-release singles anymore, I do it once on release date, and then that's it. For a genre of music that is very focused on "the album as a whole piece of art", it's weird that these labels pluck singles out so often when these songs tend to work much better within the context of the albums they're from.
-Marc.
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I have to say, it's unlikely it comes to my area, but I'd *love* to be at one of the promotional screenings for the new album. If SW gets that in a proper setup anywhere near me and I'm chosen, I'm there.
Same here! It would be quite the experience!
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I do think the main purpose of the early promotional videos is to kick start pre-orders, which help fund the manufacture of the album or other band activities (BBT indicated that pre-orders for Ingenious Devices would help find their upcoming tour). So you need people to be aware of an interested enough to buy it in advance. It makes sense to have a new video every several weeks if you have a longer pre-order campaign. But it is kind of annoying from a fan standpoint to get things slow dripped when you’d rather just wait for the whole album.
In the case of Big Big Train, though, I think they're niche enough that they know their dedicated fans will pre-order anyway, and probably don't need much promotion to get their sales off the ground. If I recall, Ingenious Devices had two pre-release trailers, and a live video of "Atlantic Cable" from Aylesbury (which was used as the final track of the album). Not much in the way of singles or music videos, and I think it worked.
But I get what you mean - on one hand, it's a way to keep the band's upcoming release current in the minds of fans. I'm not sure if there are studies that prove if a lot of pre-release singles make a difference in sales or not. It would be very interesting to see how that could work, but the variables are so wild these days that it might be difficult. I also get that with the long lead-time and delays of manufacturing vinyl makes it difficult to have a "surprise" release of an album without having pre-orders fill the manufacturing minimums in those factories. Record labels probably want to be sure that they'll actually sell all the vinyl they make before having them made, so throwing out pre-orders 3-6 months ahead of time gives them more wiggle room in regards to release window. So many albums since COVID had their vinyl releases delayed because of manufacturing problems, and those issues still seem to happen, between the factories being backed up in production, and issues with world-wide distribution.
TL;DR - I get why they do it, but it just sucks sometimes. As for SW and his upcoming album - if he's got pre-release singles, I hope they don't make up a third of the final album. I know he's prone to shorter albums these days, so if THC ends up being 45-50 minutes and is only 7 or 8 tracks, doing three singles feels like I've heard a good chunk of the album already. This is why, if I do listen to pre-release singles anymore, I do it once on release date, and then that's it. For a genre of music that is very focused on "the album as a whole piece of art", it's weird that these labels pluck singles out so often when these songs tend to work much better within the context of the albums they're from.
-Marc.
SW states the new album is a "65 minute musical journey". No idea how many tracks though.
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Harmony Codex artwork
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu9xqWNoJUX/
reminds me of some of the videos from Raven..
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Harmony Codex artwork
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu9xqWNoJUX/
reminds me of some of the videos from Raven..
I think that's because it *is* artwork used as the basis for the videos TRTRTS, particularly "Drive Home". SW's description says that the artwork for THC hasn't been revealed yet.
Hajo Mueller has created the incredible artwork for my forthcoming album The Harmony Codex, which will be unveiled soon. In the meantime ten years ago Hajo created these original storyboards for 'Drive Home’ used as the basis for Jess Cope’s video for the song. The video was recently remastered and re-released on my YouTube channel in 4K for its anniversary, by expert colourist Mozart Gabriel.
-Marc.
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Anyone else concerned that we haven't had an official announcement yet, as September 29th draws ever closer? We're looking at a pretty short promo cycle at this point.
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No. I hate getting a sing 8 months ahead of the release. I'd rather have it right before the release.
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I'd prefer a band or an artist pulling a Radiohead. First single on Tuesday, second single and the album announcement on Thursday, the album out on Friday. That was amazing.
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Agreed. Same thing in the video game space when fallout 4 was announed, came out shortly after.
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But it's not 8 months now. It's less than 2. Just tell us it's definitely coming out when it is. You don't even need to have a single yet.
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Anyone else concerned that we haven't had an official announcement yet, as September 29th draws ever closer? We're looking at a pretty short promo cycle at this point.
Did I miss that this is being released on September 29th?
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Did I miss that this is being released on September 29th?
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/steven-wilson-harmony-codex/hnum/11480613 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/steven-wilson-harmony-codex/hnum/11480613)
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Did I miss that this is being released on September 29th?
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/steven-wilson-harmony-codex/hnum/11480613 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/steven-wilson-harmony-codex/hnum/11480613)
Thanks. I'm guessing he hasn't made a formal announcement yet?
And I'm fine not hearing any singles. I would prefer to go in fresh with the full album experience this time.
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I also wish more bands/artists did the "hey we have a new album out now" surprise. Not a fan of when they really milk it and start releasing singles almost a year before release and by the time the album comes out, it's already been pretty much released in pieces already. Sure, I never listen to singles so ultimately it doesn't affect me that much, but I do think it's cooler when they just come out with a new album without too much of a drawn out build up.
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But we already know it's coming! It's no surprise. Just tell us. If you don't wanna release a single beforehand, fine. Just give us tracklist and confirmation of the release date we all know about already and the chance to preorder it.
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But we already know it's coming! It's no surprise. Just tell us. If you don't wanna release a single beforehand, fine. Just give us tracklist and confirmation of the release date we all know about already and the chance to preorder it.
But does that really matter though? If SW dropped the information on the release date, "hey here's the artwork, here's the tracklist, you can listen to the full album right away and also order it" would that make a difference? You would still get your chance to order/buy it, just not a few months in advance.
Personally I think it's cool the more you can keep an album cloaked in mystery up until it actually drops. The Future Bites was the opposite for SW, he spoke about it for months about how it would be, dropped most of it as singles leading up to it and by the time it came out it already felt 'old' in a way. I really dig that he seems to be doing the opposite now, he hasn't really even talked about how it sounds or anything. I think that's cool.
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But we already know it's coming! It's no surprise. Just tell us. If you don't wanna release a single beforehand, fine. Just give us tracklist and confirmation of the release date we all know about already and the chance to preorder it.
But does that really matter though? If SW dropped the information on the release date, "hey here's the artwork, here's the tracklist, you can listen to the full album right away and also order it" would that make a difference? You would still get your chance to order/buy it, just not a few months in advance.
Personally I think it's cool the more you can keep an album cloaked in mystery up until it actually drops. The Future Bites was the opposite for SW, he spoke about it for months about how it would be, dropped most of it as singles leading up to it and by the time it came out it already felt 'old' in a way. I really dig that he seems to be doing the opposite now, he hasn't really even talked about how it sounds or anything. I think that's cool.
100% agree! Don't know if he's doing it the exact opposite way as a way of just not repeating himself - or maybe because the way he promoted TFB didn't really work out how he had hoped it would.
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https://theharmonycodex.com/?fbclid=IwAR2c5sf4-9XViYcLfoGUFmY2v_cGm2pCYKP8EzO-vAM5SJ2f9zhz5Ag7bwU
Posted by SW about 20 minutes ago.
-Marc.
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100% agree! Don't know if he's doing it the exact opposite way as a way of just not repeating himself - or maybe because the way he promoted TFB didn't really work out how he had hoped it would.
Yeah, the pandemic majorly knocked the stuffing out of that promotion cycle. Personal Shopper was released right around the time things really started kicking off here, and of course the album was originally pencilled in for June 2020 until it got pushed back to January 2021.
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https://www.pulse-and-spirit.com/news/guy-pratt-spielt-auf-neuem-album-von-steven-wilson-the-harmony-codex/
On this site there are some musicians playing on The Harmony Codex. I believe these are some names collected from SW interviews and this list is not complete? Because I seriously HOPE that there is a real drummer playing on these songs.
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Why? What's wrong with electronic drums. I thought we'd moved beyond that mentality of electronics not being real decades ago. It's not about real. It's about what's right for the song and the artist always knows that.
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Has anyone read his short story this is probably based on? Has anyone understood it?
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Why? What's wrong with electronic drums. I thought we'd moved beyond that mentality of electronics not being real decades ago. It's not about real. It's about what's right for the song and the artist always knows that.
Well sure but for me atleast I prefer when there's an artist playing an instrument acoustic or digital. Programmed drums don't excit me as much.
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Why? What's wrong with electronic drums. I thought we'd moved beyond that mentality of electronics not being real decades ago. It's not about real. It's about what's right for the song and the artist always knows that.
Well sure but for me atleast I prefer when there's an artist playing an instrument acoustic or digital. Programmed drums don't excit me as much.
This.
SW could "choose" from so many great drummers who would be willing to provide awesome drum tracks. I personally would love to hear Nick D'Virgilio on a SW album.
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Why? What's wrong with electronic drums. I thought we'd moved beyond that mentality of electronics not being real decades ago. It's not about real. It's about what's right for the song and the artist always knows that.
Well sure but for me atleast I prefer when there's an artist playing an instrument acoustic or digital. Programmed drums don't excit me as much.
This.
SW could "choose" from so many great drummers who would be willing to provide awesome drum tracks. I personally would love to hear Nick D'Virgilio on a SW album.
Or imagine how amazing it would be if he got someone like Marco Minnemann to play with him!
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It feels a bit like the 'playing with virtuoso musicians' part of SW's career is in the past now and he's moved onto other things.
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While the super poppy style of the previous album wasn't really my cup of tea, I'm still really excited for his next release. His previous works like "The Raven That Refused to Sing" and "Hand. Cannot. Erase." really resonated with me, so I'm looking forward to see where he takes his music next. Can't wait to hear what he comes up with!
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It feels a bit like the 'playing with virtuoso musicians' part of SW's career is in the past now and he's moved onto other things.
I completely agree
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It feels a bit like the 'playing with virtuoso musicians' part of SW's career is in the past now and he's moved onto other things.
Well he has Nick Beggs playing on this new album and he posted on social media today that Ninet is also returning. I personally would consider both of them as "virtuoso musicians". That's my opinion anyways LOL
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Why? What's wrong with electronic drums. I thought we'd moved beyond that mentality of electronics not being real decades ago. It's not about real. It's about what's right for the song and the artist always knows that.
Well sure but for me atleast I prefer when there's an artist playing an instrument acoustic or digital. Programmed drums don't excit me as much.
This.
SW could "choose" from so many great drummers who would be willing to provide awesome drum tracks. I personally would love to hear Nick D'Virgilio on a SW album.
Or imagine how amazing it would be if he got someone like Marco Minnemann to play with him!
HAHA good one!
And plus one for Nick D'Virgillio, that would be awesome!!
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NDV has had at least two offers to tour with SW in the past but it’s never worked out, so maybe one of these days he’ll play with him or on an album.
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I’m totally fine with programmed beats.
Okay, a featured drummer here and there would make me more excited but I’m sure SW does what the music asks for.
Something tells me this album won’t be as ‘light’ or poppy as TFB. I sure hope so.
TFB I was pretty disappointed by at first. I have to say nowadays I keep playing it. It’s one of the very few SW (related) records I can play when with other people. It doesn’t reach enormous highs or gets overly emotional, it’s so palatable. I actually like it for that now.
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Wait, I'm a bit lost. Do we have a confirmation that the drums were programmed or is this just speculation over the fact that no drummer was credited yet?
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I think it‘s pure speculation.
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Wait, I'm a bit lost. Do we have a confirmation that the drums were programmed or is this just speculation over the fact that no drummer was credited yet?
I just wondered if there would be a drummer on the album since the musicians listed until now did not include a drummer. That sparked the discussion ;)
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Yeah I'd be surprised if there were NO drummers at all on the album - but we shall see..
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What if there are no drums on the record? ;)
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What if there are no drums on the record? ;)
That on the other hand I would like. I mean, no drums and no drum machines.
Have you guys heard David Crosby’s albums Lighthouse and Here If You Listen? Amazing albums without any drums.
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What if there are no drums on the record? ;)
What if there's no rigid meter and the album is entirely in un-quantized free-meter? :lol
-Marc.
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Yeah I'd be surprised if there were NO drummers at all on the album - but we shall see..
if there's no drummers it'll probably be as boring as the new sigur ros was :rollin :rollin
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Yeah I'd be surprised if there were NO drummers at all on the album - but we shall see..
if there's no drummers it'll probably be as boring as the new sigur ros was :rollin :rollin
My friend Jim Bob didn't notice there was no drummer on it LOL
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Tuesday the first track will drop :-)
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Tuesday the first track will drop :-)
sauce?
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hey all,
so i gotta confess something - i never really got what's so amazing about steven wilson's music. i've heard people rave about him, but it just didn't click with me. but, hey, i'm open to change my mind.
thing is, i read that he's not into apple products (see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD7KwiZ_3Pc)), and i'm an iphone user, so that kinda rubbed me the wrong way. but i don't want that to cloud my judgment.
i'm willing to give his music a real shot. can you folks recommend some tracks or albums that might help me see what you all see? i'm hoping i can put aside my biases and appreciate his work for what it is.
cheers!
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thing is, i read that he's not into apple products (see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD7KwiZ_3Pc)), and i'm an iphone user, so that kinda rubbed me the wrong way. but i don't want that to cloud my judgment.
I see what you did there. :neverusethis:
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hey all,
so i gotta confess something - i never really got what's so amazing about steven wilson's music. i've heard people rave about him, but it just didn't click with me. but, hey, i'm open to change my mind.
thing is, i read that he's not into apple products (see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD7KwiZ_3Pc)), and i'm an iphone user, so that kinda rubbed me the wrong way. but i don't want that to cloud my judgment.
i'm willing to give his music a real shot. can you folks recommend some tracks or albums that might help me see what you all see? i'm hoping i can put aside my biases and appreciate his work for what it is.
cheers!
I think there might be a bit of confusion about Steven Wilson and the whole iPod situation. Back in the day, Steven Wilson expressed his dislike for digital music and the way it was affecting the quality of audio and how people experience music. He made a statement about destroying iPods, but it wasn't so much about being against Apple specifically.
However, times have changed, and it seems like even Wilson himself has evolved in his perspective given that he's available on all streaming platforms now.
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hey all,
so i gotta confess something - i never really got what's so amazing about steven wilson's music. i've heard people rave about him, but it just didn't click with me. but, hey, i'm open to change my mind.
thing is, i read that he's not into apple products (see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD7KwiZ_3Pc)), and i'm an iphone user, so that kinda rubbed me the wrong way. but i don't want that to cloud my judgment.
i'm willing to give his music a real shot. can you folks recommend some tracks or albums that might help me see what you all see? i'm hoping i can put aside my biases and appreciate his work for what it is.
cheers!
If you're into 70s prog, check out The Raven that Refused to Sing. If you like shoegaze/post-punk, Insurgentes. King Crimson-ish prog with some light electronics and avant-jazz? Grace for Drowning. Old school pop? To the Bone. Modern "prog"? Hand. Cannot. Erase.
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hey all,
so i gotta confess something - i never really got what's so amazing about steven wilson's music. i've heard people rave about him, but it just didn't click with me. but, hey, i'm open to change my mind.
thing is, i read that he's not into apple products (see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD7KwiZ_3Pc)), and i'm an iphone user, so that kinda rubbed me the wrong way. but i don't want that to cloud my judgment.
i'm willing to give his music a real shot. can you folks recommend some tracks or albums that might help me see what you all see? i'm hoping i can put aside my biases and appreciate his work for what it is.
cheers!
I think there might be a bit of confusion about Steven Wilson and the whole iPod situation. Back in the day, Steven Wilson expressed his dislike for digital music and the way it was affecting the quality of audio and how people experience music. He made a statement about destroying iPods, but it wasn't so much about being against Apple specifically.
However, times have changed, and it seems like even Wilson himself has evolved in his perspective given that he's available on all streaming platforms now.
thanks for clearing that up, pmsummer. i appreciate the context, and it's good to know that things have evolved over time. it's a relief he's on spotify as i couldn't afford the physical cds lately. blame it on president biden's inflation, prices are going up.
so, with that out of the way, anyone have any recommendations for where I should start with steven wilson's music? i'm eager to give it a fair chance and see if i can find that spark that so many others seem to love. let me know your favorite tracks or albums!
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progmasterminds posts are all trolls..
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progmasterminds posts are all trolls..
not really a productive accusation as i came here to learn. i admit to taking the piss a little with the apple comment and i apologize that it came across as trolling as my interest is sincere. let's all try to get along.
hey all,
so i gotta confess something - i never really got what's so amazing about steven wilson's music. i've heard people rave about him, but it just didn't click with me. but, hey, i'm open to change my mind.
thing is, i read that he's not into apple products (see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD7KwiZ_3Pc)), and i'm an iphone user, so that kinda rubbed me the wrong way. but i don't want that to cloud my judgment.
i'm willing to give his music a real shot. can you folks recommend some tracks or albums that might help me see what you all see? i'm hoping i can put aside my biases and appreciate his work for what it is.
cheers!
If you're into 70s prog, check out The Raven that Refused to Sing. If you like shoegaze/post-punk, Insurgentes. King Crimson-ish prog with some light electronics and avant-jazz? Grace for Drowning. Old school pop? To the Bone. Modern "prog"? Hand. Cannot. Erase.
just dove into insurgentes for the first time. wow, there's something intriguing about the way the music flows. it's different from the complex metal i'm used to, but i'm finding myself drawn in. it sounds like i should avoid to the bone but i'll be certain to try the others!
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progmasterminds posts are all trolls..
There’s no need for this, and ProgMasterMind, there’s no need to apologize. Welcome to the forum!
I see in the other thread you’re listening to The Raven That Refused to Sing. Great choice, and I would recommend Hand Cannot Erase after that, if you like the Raven.
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Insurgents has its bright moments, but I don’t go back to it much.
The 1-2-3 punch of Drowning, Raven, and Hand is flawless IMO.
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People really underrate To The Bone and oversell how pop-focused it is. It's a really varied album, with some more pop-focused songs yes, but the best songs on it like Refuge, Detonation, and Song Of Unborn are more atmospheric and slow-building, and I think those songs are some of the best material to ever show up on Steven's solo albums. There's also some great moody cuts like Pariah and Song Of I, and some more upbeat stuff like Nowhere Now and People Who Eat Darkness. Permanating is the only clunker for me and I feel like people hyper-fixate on it compared to the rest of the album.
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Permanating is a certified banger.
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Tuesday the first track will drop :-)
sauce?
Smokey BBQ is my favourite :biggrin:
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Can't believe no one on this forum got an invite to a listening event.
Please don't shoot me, but I filled out the questions on SW website and I actually got a response... a quick one. Problem was I could not make it to the valley on the night it was being presented on such short notice. This is a portion of the response I got.
BTW, I did NOT confirm my attendance so did not take a space from someone else.
Congratulations!
(my name, email address)
Steven Wilson and L-Acoustics invite you to an exclusive playback of his new album The Harmony Codex, mixed in L-ISA spatial audio technology and presented on an immersive 18.1.12 ultra-high resolution sound system.
This invite entitles you to a one entry pass, for the 7.30pm playback.
The event will take place on 7 August 2023 at:
2645 Townsgate Road #600
Westlake Village, CA 91361
United States
To confirm your attendance: Please email xxxx at crystalspotlight dot com (using the email you signed up with) by Friday 4 August at 11pm PDT. As spaces are limited we cannot accept replies after this date/time.
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People really underrate To The Bone and oversell how pop-focused it is. It's a really varied album, with some more pop-focused songs yes, but the best songs on it like Refuge, Detonation, and Song Of Unborn are more atmospheric and slow-building, and I think those songs are some of the best material to ever show up on Steven's solo albums. There's also some great moody cuts like Pariah and Song Of I, and some more upbeat stuff like Nowhere Now and People Who Eat Darkness. Permanating is the only clunker for me and I feel like people hyper-fixate on it compared to the rest of the album.
Agreed! To The Bone is strong and varied and even has some “prog” in some of the tracks. IMO The Future Bites is his only solo album that falls a little flat (it’s still decent). The other 5 solo albums (Insugentes, Grace, Raven, H.C.E. and To The Bone) are all excellent and some of my favorite albums of this century! I am VERY excited to see what The Harmony Codex has in store for us!
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People really underrate To The Bone and oversell how pop-focused it is. It's a really varied album, with some more pop-focused songs yes, but the best songs on it like Refuge, Detonation, and Song Of Unborn are more atmospheric and slow-building, and I think those songs are some of the best material to ever show up on Steven's solo albums. There's also some great moody cuts like Pariah and Song Of I, and some more upbeat stuff like Nowhere Now and People Who Eat Darkness. Permanating is the only clunker for me and I feel like people hyper-fixate on it compared to the rest of the album.
Thank you.
The only thing poppy about it is that it’s song-driven instead of an album length narrative flow. It’s also the Steven Wilson album that maybe comes closest to the sound of Porcupine Tree.
Hand Cannot Erase is a brilliant and magical concept album but I felt To The Bone was really fresh and it still is. Absolutely fantastic album with some of his best songs. Pariah, Refuge, Song of I and Detonation are absolutely amazing.
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I think HCE and TTB are both good (not great) I guess my biggest hurdle with both is that I like the first 3 solo albums more because they have more of a vibe/feel/aesthetic to them. HCE and TTB to me feel a bit more all over the place in that regard. I think HCE has a cool concept but aside from maybe Routine it doesn't have any S-tier songs on it. TTB is very solid overall but again, I don't think it really has any amazing songs on it and so it kinda caps out at like a 7.5/10.
Both are significantly better than TFB though.
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Hi, all,
Used to lurk here (and sometimes post) many years ago. Just wanted to see if anyone here had received an invitation to the Harmony Codex listening session on 30 August in London. I was recently contacted through Instagram DM by a guy called Rob Skarin, who offered my an invite to an open spot. Super keen on going, but my "street sense" is getting me tripped up...
First, it's weird (IMO) to have someone reach out and offer a ticket to an event via social media, even if the profile looks legit (Rob Skarin is supposed to be the name of Steven's social media manager; things check out on the Crystal Spotlight (http://"https://crystalspotlight.com") site as well).
Second, I cannot find any info on the actual event, which is supposed to be happening at the same place as the event last month (the L-Acoustics (http://"https://www.l-acoustics.com") studio in Highgate). Nothing on the L-Acoustics site, nothing on SW's site, nothing on SW's social media that I can find... I know this is an exclusive event, but surely his team would have put out something?
Anyway, I am asked through DM what my email address is so that I can get added to the list, and I receive the email invitation -- similar copy to what Rob801 posted above, though it says:
Please email ______ (using the email you signed up with) by Friday 26th August at 6pm BST. As spaces are limited we cannot accept replies after this date/time.
The 26th was a Saturday, not a Friday. Maybe just an honest error. But it doesn't help that, despite coming from mail at stevenwilsonhq dot com, my email provider alerts me: "This email has failed its domain's authentication requirements. It may be spoofed or improperly forwarded."
Am I being paranoid here? :rollin I would be coming from out of town, and it would take me a good 2.5 hours to get up to the studio. Really want to experience this, but don't want to be... disappointed. Maybe someone else has been invited to one of these events? Were you ever reached out to on social? Is this a thing?
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I can assure you that assuming it's Rob's account contacting you and not some fake, Rob is indeed a trusted source so no worries proceeding.
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I can assure you that assuming it's Rob's account contacting you and not some fake, Rob is indeed a trusted source so no worries proceeding.
Thanks for the assurance. Yeah, handle was @robskarin, and I saw the profile looked to be set up for a couple years, so seems like it is above board.
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I would've loved to have gone to those Atmos sessions. It must be an amazing way to experience it. I have a few albums and many movies with Atmos but no way to listen at home as I don't have that setup.
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so is the album gonna surprise drop this week??? :corn :corn :corn :corn :corn :corn :corn
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Apparently a single, Economies of Scale, has been released in Australia and New Zealand. I've not heard it, though. I assume it's being released in the UK tomorrow.
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so is the album gonna surprise drop this week??? :corn :corn :corn :corn :corn :corn :corn
On some shop websites like JPC, the release date is the 29th of September.
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damn ,, i CANNOT wait that long! :eek
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It's only a month. Usually when albums are announced it's 2-3 months away from release.
Yes, Economies of Scale is released at your local midnight.
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damn ,, i CANNOT wait that long! :eek
Depends on if the single's good or not. :neverusethis:
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damn ,, i CANNOT wait that long! :eek
Depends on if the single's good or not. :neverusethis:
loool, very fair! :yarr
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hmmm not feeling this song. the beat is cool and all, but it lacks a certain something?
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Just had a listen to the new single, it's a bit slow, more like an album closer than a lead single.
Didn't hear any real drums either :biggrin:
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Just had a listen to the new single, it's a bit slow, more like an album closer than a lead single.
Didn't hear any real drums either :biggrin:
Were there *fake* drums at least? :lol
-Marc.
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Preorders are up, folks. Get in quickly for that deluxe boxset. Nicely priced at £55 (although you get absolutely gouged by Burning Shed for shipping, as usual. Side note: never understood why people hold Burning Shed in such high regard).
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Got my coke bottle clear vinyl, one more for a friend, one CD for a friend and the bluray. Hope I am not too late to get two of those singed prints.
Finally a new SW album :metal
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Tracklist (of the Deluxe set):
Disc 1 - THE HARMONY CODEX
1 Inclination (7.15)
2 What Life Brings (3.40)
3 Economies of Scale (4.17)
4 Impossible Tightrope (10.42)
5 Rock Bottom (4.25)
6 Beautiful Scarecrow (5.21)
7 The Harmony Codex (9.50)
8 Time is Running Out (3.57)
9 Actual Brutal Facts (5.05)
10 Staircase (9.26)
Disc 2 - HARMONIC DISTORTION
1 Codex Theme #7
2 Economies of Scale - Manic Street Preachers remix
3 Codex Theme #9
4 Inclination - Faultline remix
5 Impossible Tightrope - alternate version
6 Codex Theme #6 4
7 Beautiful Scarecrow - Meat Beat Manifesto Excursion 1
8 Codex Theme #8
9 Time is Running Out - Mikael Åkerfeldt version
10 Staircase - Interpol Remix
11 Codex Theme #3
12 What Life Brings - Aug 22 mix by Roland Orzabal
13 The Harmony Codex - long take
14 Staircase - Radiophonic Workshop remix
Disc 3 – THE HARMONY CODEX BluRay
1. HIGH RESOLUTION STEREO (96/24)
2. 5.1 MIX (96/24)
3. ATMOS MIX (48/24)
4. STEREO INSTRUMENTALS (96/24) *
5. 5.1 INSTRUMENTALS (96/24) *
6. ATMOS INSTRUMENTALS (48/24) *
* exclusive to this edition
10 track album in:
1. HIGH RESOLUTION STEREO (96/24)
2. 5.1 MIX (96/24)
3. ATMOS MIX (48/24)
ECONOMIES OF SCALE video (Directed by Charlie Di Placido)
THE HARMONY CODEX video (Directed by Crystal Spotlight/Miles Skarin)
And as for the vinyl edition:
Side A - 15:12
1 Inclination (7.15)
2 What Life Brings (3.40)
3 Economies of Scale (4.17)
Side B - 15:07
4 Impossible Tightrope (10.42)
5 Rock Bottom (4.25)
Side C - 15:11
6 Beautiful Scarecrow (5.21)
7 The Harmony Codex (9.50)
Side D - 18:28
8 Time is Running Out (3.57)
9 Actual Brutal Facts (5.05)
10 Staircase (9.26)
Guess I'm ordering this one. :lol At 63:58, this is his longest solo album since HCE, and his third longest solo album overall. I wasn't expecting over an hour of music! Here's hoping it's a good near 64 minutes!
Preorders are up, folks. Get in quickly for that deluxe boxset. Nicely priced at £55 (although you get absolutely gouged by Burning Shed for shipping, as usual. Side note: never understood why people hold Burning Shed in such high regard).
Huh, when I ordered, it was £45.83 before shipping, and even after shipping and using the cheapest shipping option (insurance and signed-for delivery), it ended up being just £61.21 (or $80.40 USD). Still a bit steep but not the most I've paid for a SW Deluxe set.
Also, looks like another song will be released next week:
Next week something completely different, the mostly instrumental 11 minute hybrid of progressive rock, spiritual jazz and electronica that is Impossible Tightrope. I couldn’t be prouder of this album and I think you are going to enjoy it too!
-Marc.
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Huh, when I ordered, it was £45.83 before shipping, and even after shipping and using the cheapest shipping option (insurance and signed-for delivery), it ended up being just £61.21 (or $80.40 USD). Still a bit steep but not the most I've paid for a SW Deluxe set.
Also, looks like another song will be released next week:
Next week something completely different, the mostly instrumental 11 minute hybrid of progressive rock, spiritual jazz and electronica that is Impossible Tightrope. I couldn’t be prouder of this album and I think you are going to enjoy it too!
-Marc.
That's because you are outside the UK/EU and are not paying the 20% tax that NBN is coughing up.
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Just listened to Economies and yea, I don't really care for it. Sounds like it could've been left over from Future Bites.
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I’ve heard portions of 1-2 seconds of Economies and the other single that’s due to release next week. Not enough to really get a feel for it. I’m trying to stay away from singles until the album drops but I’m already having a hard time.
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Preorders are up, folks. Get in quickly for that deluxe boxset. Nicely priced at £55 (although you get absolutely gouged by Burning Shed for shipping, as usual. Side note: never understood why people hold Burning Shed in such high regard).
Huh, when I ordered, it was £45.83 before shipping, and even after shipping and using the cheapest shipping option (insurance and signed-for delivery), it ended up being just £61.21 (or $80.40 USD). Still a bit steep but not the most I've paid for a SW Deluxe set.
-Marc.
Burning Shed shipping was kinda reasonable I guess with the $20 option. Plus they had the deluxe set a bit cheaper than SW's site making the whole thing $80.
Never ordered a deluxe set for any of SW's albums before. Always just got the standard Bluray.
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Just listened to Economies and yea, I don't really care for it. Sounds like it could've been left over from Future Bites.
It could have, though I think the quality's a step up. The vocal layering in the second half was excellent.
Sounds like this will be a pretty varied album from how he's describing it, so I'm interested. It does sound like most of it will have an electronic foundation though.
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gotta say, i'm really digging the vibes on this one. the way the instruments blend together and the way his vocals just flow along, it's all pretty darn captivating. not gonna lie, i've had it on repeat since it dropped. if the rest of the upcoming album is anything like this, then i think we're in for a real treat. cheers! :yarr :metal
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Preorders are up, folks. Get in quickly for that deluxe boxset. Nicely priced at £55 (although you get absolutely gouged by Burning Shed for shipping, as usual. Side note: never understood why people hold Burning Shed in such high regard).
Huh, when I ordered, it was £45.83 before shipping, and even after shipping and using the cheapest shipping option (insurance and signed-for delivery), it ended up being just £61.21 (or $80.40 USD). Still a bit steep but not the most I've paid for a SW Deluxe set.
-Marc.
Burning Shed shipping was kinda reasonable I guess with the $20 option. Plus they had the deluxe set a bit cheaper than SW's site making the whole thing $80.
Never ordered a deluxe set for any of SW's albums before. Always just got the standard Bluray.
Yeah I saw what he was changing at his own store and I'm glad I went with Burning Shed. They're pretty impeccable too. I ordered the In Absentia Deluxe re-releaae and it arrived with a dent on the back cover, so they sent a whole other large Deluxe artbook (sans discs) at no extra charge. Great service!
As for other SW Deluxe sets, IIRC, I've gotten HCE and TFB from his solo stuff, and Anesthetize and the IA and Deadwing re-issues from PT. They're large, gorgeous artbooks with amazing art and photos.
-Marc.
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Anesthetize had a large artbook? Didn't know that I think I have just the regular version. Only deluxe PT edition I have is the C/C one which is pretty good.
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(WRT Marc's post) Wow. That is totally different to my experience of them. Horrible, stuck-up company. In fact, I dislike them so much, I've cancelled my pre-order and gone through the official store instead.
As for The Harmony Codex, he's all over social media saying he wants people to view it as a piece of musical cinema, from start to finish, and yet he's releasing tracks out of context which I think is a real shame. Given the whole idea of aural cinema, I'm not going to listen to any of it before release. I'll wait for the Atmos mix.
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"Live shows have yet to be announced, with Wilson planning a series of residencies in intimate venues, rather than a traditional tour. “I’d like to take the immersive aspect into the live situation and play smaller rooms, maybe 600-capacity,” said Wilson. “I’d install an amazing spatial audio system, then somehow have the audience be inside the band, with light installations and projections. I’d like to create an environment for a performance to take place in.”"
Wow!
From this article: https://www.nme.com/news/music/steven-wilson-interview-harmony-codex-economies-scale-manic-street-preachers-porcupine-tree-3490247
Another passage:
""I’ve tried, but I just can’t do it. Early on in Porcupine Tree, we were signed to Atlantic in America. We were pressured to try to write a grunge radio anthem. I did it, but I felt so dirty. The audience saw through it too.""
Anyone know what song he's referring to?
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I've had the same experience as Marc with Burning Shed. I don't really order much from them, but the few times I have, had no issues. I once didn't get a disc from them and they sent the replacement right away.
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I thought the new single was fine but unexciting. I imagine it's better within the context of the whole album.
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"Live shows have yet to be announced, with Wilson planning a series of residencies in intimate venues, rather than a traditional tour. “I’d like to take the immersive aspect into the live situation and play smaller rooms, maybe 600-capacity,” said Wilson. “I’d install an amazing spatial audio system, then somehow have the audience be inside the band, with light installations and projections. I’d like to create an environment for a performance to take place in.”"
Wow!
From this article: https://www.nme.com/news/music/steven-wilson-interview-harmony-codex-economies-scale-manic-street-preachers-porcupine-tree-3490247
Another passage:
""I’ve tried, but I just can’t do it. Early on in Porcupine Tree, we were signed to Atlantic in America. We were pressured to try to write a grunge radio anthem. I did it, but I felt so dirty. The audience saw through it too.""
Anyone know what song he's referring to?
In the past, he’s hinted that Shallow was the culprit. But personally I think that song is badass.
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Anesthetize had a large artbook? Didn't know that I think I have just the regular version. Only deluxe PT edition I have is the C/C one which is pretty good.
https://www.discogs.com/release/4254603-Porcupine-Tree-Anesthetize-Live-In-Tilburg-Oct-2008
It's a *thick* hardcover, cloth-bound book with only 5000 copies, 4000 with the grey cover (in the link), which is the one I have. Includes four discs, DVD, BD, and 2CD of the show.
(WRT Marc's post) Wow. That is totally different to my experience of them. Horrible, stuck-up company. In fact, I dislike them so much, I've cancelled my pre-order and gone through the official store instead.
As for The Harmony Codex, he's all over social media saying he wants people to view it as a piece of musical cinema, from start to finish, and yet he's releasing tracks out of context which I think is a real shame. Given the whole idea of aural cinema, I'm not going to listen to any of it before release. I'll wait for the Atmos mix.
Sorry to hear that. I guess I've been lucky? Then again, I've also rarely had issues with Neal Morse's Radiant Records but everyone else seems to be fed up with them. :lol
As for the album experience, given that it's about a month from release, I think I can probably get by with listening to the "singles" once and then wait for the whole thing. Don't want to over-do it on the spins so the whole album is fresh when it comes out.
And speaking of its release, perhaps we can get the thread title updated to reflect the album's release date, now that the pre-orders are up?
-Marc.
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"Live shows have yet to be announced, with Wilson planning a series of residencies in intimate venues, rather than a traditional tour. “I’d like to take the immersive aspect into the live situation and play smaller rooms, maybe 600-capacity,” said Wilson. “I’d install an amazing spatial audio system, then somehow have the audience be inside the band, with light installations and projections. I’d like to create an environment for a performance to take place in.”"
Wow!
From this article: https://www.nme.com/news/music/steven-wilson-interview-harmony-codex-economies-scale-manic-street-preachers-porcupine-tree-3490247
Another passage:
""I’ve tried, but I just can’t do it. Early on in Porcupine Tree, we were signed to Atlantic in America. We were pressured to try to write a grunge radio anthem. I did it, but I felt so dirty. The audience saw through it too.""
Anyone know what song he's referring to?
In the past, he’s hinted that Shallow was the culprit. But personally I think that song is badass.
"Shallow" is a phenomenal song.
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I thought the new single was fine but unexciting. I imagine it's better within the context of the whole album.
as someone who enjoyed the single, i think i agree with you. feeling excited for what's to come with this one, now!
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Anesthetize had a large artbook? Didn't know that I think I have just the regular version. Only deluxe PT edition I have is the C/C one which is pretty good.
https://www.discogs.com/release/4254603-Porcupine-Tree-Anesthetize-Live-In-Tilburg-Oct-2008 (https://www.discogs.com/release/4254603-Porcupine-Tree-Anesthetize-Live-In-Tilburg-Oct-2008)
It's a *thick* hardcover, cloth-bound book with only 5000 copies, 4000 with the grey cover (in the link), which is the one I have. Includes four discs, DVD, BD, and 2CD of the show.
-Marc.
I recall that now. I remember it was I think the beginning of the special and deluxe edition phase of everything.
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Anesthetize had a large artbook? Didn't know that I think I have just the regular version. Only deluxe PT edition I have is the C/C one which is pretty good.
https://www.discogs.com/release/4254603-Porcupine-Tree-Anesthetize-Live-In-Tilburg-Oct-2008 (https://www.discogs.com/release/4254603-Porcupine-Tree-Anesthetize-Live-In-Tilburg-Oct-2008)
It's a *thick* hardcover, cloth-bound book with only 5000 copies, 4000 with the grey cover (in the link), which is the one I have. Includes four discs, DVD, BD, and 2CD of the show.
-Marc.
I recall that now. I remember it was I think the beginning of the special and deluxe edition phase of everything.
You're probably right to have felt that way because I think nearly every SW release (solo and with a band) since then has had some sort of over-sized deluxe edition set. I don't own all of them, but I'm happy with the ones I do have! I also forgot about the Closure / Continuation deluxe set that I got last year as well!
-Marc.
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Were the signed prints listed separately as bundles? Or did the option popped up once you had a couple of items purchased? I went online at 630am but couldn't find the signed print option anymore.
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Were the signed prints listed separately as bundles? Or did the option popped up once you had a couple of items purchased? I went online at 630am but couldn't find the signed print option anymore.
They were only offered as part of any of the bundled deals in the official store.
Edit: just checked and can confirm they're gone now.
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Were the signed prints listed separately as bundles? Or did the option popped up once you had a couple of items purchased? I went online at 630am but couldn't find the signed print option anymore.
They were only offered as part of any of the bundled deals in the official store.
Edit: just checked and can confirm they're gone now.
Thanks. Shit, must of gone pretty fast since I logged in at 630am. Managed to get the boxset with the gray tshirt.
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(WRT Marc's post) Wow. That is totally different to my experience of them. Horrible, stuck-up company. In fact, I dislike them so much, I've cancelled my pre-order and gone through the official store instead.
As for The Harmony Codex, he's all over social media saying he wants people to view it as a piece of musical cinema, from start to finish, and yet he's releasing tracks out of context which I think is a real shame. Given the whole idea of aural cinema, I'm not going to listen to any of it before release. I'll wait for the Atmos mix.
What is exactly is your beef with BS?
How are they horrible and stuck up?
I've never had any issues with them and shipping anything to AU from England is expensive.
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Preordered the deluxe set.... hope it's worth it
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I thought there were going to be no singles for this album. He had said as much in earlier interviews.
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I thought there were going to be no singles for this album. He had said as much in earlier interviews.
That's what I thought too. I listed to Economies of Scale, and well was less than impressed. But as others have mentioned, it could very well play better in context of the album. I think I'll hold off on listening to next weeks single (though the description sounds more up my alley), and just wait for the album to be released. Hopefully these are the only two singles he's releasing prior to the album dropping.
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From the article nobloodyname posted above -
"Other guests on ‘The Harmony Codex’ include Interpol drummer Sam Fogarino, Jack Dangers of dance/hip-hop veterans Meat Beat Manifesto, Kneebody drummer Nate Wood plus longtime Wilson associates Ninet Tayeb, Craig Blundell and Adam Holzman."
So it looks like he's confirmed there are some actual drummers on the album.
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From the article nobloodyname posted above -
"Other guests on ‘The Harmony Codex’ include Interpol drummer Sam Fogarino, Jack Dangers of dance/hip-hop veterans Meat Beat Manifesto, Kneebody drummer Nate Wood plus longtime Wilson associates Ninet Tayeb, Craig Blundell and Adam Holzman."
So it looks like he's confirmed there are some actual drummers on the album.
Ninja'd, I was just gonna post this. This shapes up to be one of those "Steely Dan albums" by SW again, with a lot of guests and collaborations. Where you could think that he wrote a song and then wondered "who could be the best guy possible to play drums on this?" :tup After The Future Bites, where he did a lot on his own, I think this is VERY good news!
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"Live shows have yet to be announced, with Wilson planning a series of residencies in intimate venues, rather than a traditional tour. “I’d like to take the immersive aspect into the live situation and play smaller rooms, maybe 600-capacity,” said Wilson. “I’d install an amazing spatial audio system, then somehow have the audience be inside the band, with light installations and projections. I’d like to create an environment for a performance to take place in.”"
Wow!
From this article: https://www.nme.com/news/music/steven-wilson-interview-harmony-codex-economies-scale-manic-street-preachers-porcupine-tree-3490247
Another passage:
""I’ve tried, but I just can’t do it. Early on in Porcupine Tree, we were signed to Atlantic in America. We were pressured to try to write a grunge radio anthem. I did it, but I felt so dirty. The audience saw through it too.""
Anyone know what song he's referring to?
In the past, he’s hinted that Shallow was the culprit. But personally I think that song is badass.
Oh, no wonder that song shows up in various post-grunge radio playlists that I listen to on Spotify at times. I do like that song as well.
As for the Economies of Scale, this is going to be one of these artistic dance kind of songs isn't it?
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I’m avoiding any singles until the album comes out. But I also preordered the box set, so we’ll see if that was a good decision.
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Economies of Scale is a fantastic music video. It really fits that vibe of a musical cinema.
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I already gave in and listened to the track over at my brother’s house, he has a really good sound system.
First listen I already liked it, even though it’s obviously not a track that smacks you in the face. A few listens in, I find myself really enjoying the sparse arrangement and the vocals. Then I started to watch the music video and well, what a dance performance! I usually like that stuff but seeing a dance performance to weird Steven Wilson music is just something else.
I dig it. I’m well aware this is (thankfully) not the entire scope of what’s on the album but as a first piece of the puzzle I’m liking this a lot.
Oh and I forgot to say: Radiohead. Totally.
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I already gave in and listened to the track over at my brother’s house, he has a really good sound system.
First listen I already liked it, even though it’s obviously not a track that smacks you in the face. A few listens in, I find myself really enjoying the sparse arrangement and the vocals. Then I started to watch the music video and well, what a dance performance! I usually like that stuff but seeing a dance performance to weird Steven Wilson music is just something else.
I dig it. I’m well aware this is (thankfully) not the entire scope of what’s on the album but as a first piece of the puzzle I’m liking this a lot.
Oh and I forgot to say: Radiohead. Totally.
I enjoy how that interpretive dance is related to the lyrics. It made me understand more about what the type of Theme/Concept he is going for with this album.
It's also cool to note how Steven is just sitting on the bench reading a newspaper...
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With shoes on. Lol
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With shoes on. Lol
Ok THAT was funny!! :rollin :rollin
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[
What is exactly is your beef with BS?
How are they horrible and stuck up?
I've never had any issues with them and shipping anything to AU from England is expensive.
Hi, fellow.
I've had numerous issues over the years from slow shipping to cosmetic damage with items and they've always refused to do anything about them. Their responses have always been no and I literally had, once, "no, the artist would never support a replacement for that" (that is literally the response I had when the engraved side of a vinyl was scuffed to fuck). The attitude in their responses has always carried an aloofness to it as if they're saying, "we're here for the artists' interests, you're just collateral". This includes both their customer services team and whoever runs their Twitter and Facebook accounts. However, I do understand my experiences are not shared by many so perhaps I just have to mark it down as 'one of those things'. As a result, I buy from them as infrequently as I can. That said, I received a response to my refund request email yesterday in about 90 seconds which is impressive. Although why on Earth should anyone need to EMAIL a cancellation request these days? Anyway, hope that gives you a little insight.
And now... Back to Steven! :biggrin:
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Back to Steven
Burning Shed
BS! :poop:
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"Other guests on ‘The Harmony Codex’ include Interpol drummer Sam Fogarino, Jack Dangers of dance/hip-hop veterans Meat Beat Manifesto, Kneebody drummer Nate Wood plus longtime Wilson associates Ninet Tayeb, Craig Blundell and Adam Holzman."
Saw Nate Wood open for Snarky Puppy this year. Ridiculous performance on keys, drums, guitar, and vocals -- all at once. :o
Nate Wood - fOUR - It's Enough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spo85lUYls0
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I like the new song and the description of the album appeals to me. Sounds a bit more To The Bones to me than Future Bites. I love To The Bones, so that is good. And I will say Future Bites has grown on me over time.
Ordered the Deluxe book, as it seems like a high effort version (both the book and the additional album version).
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i'm getting some mellow and introspective vibes from the single, so i'm wondering if the album might lean more towards a laid-back and reflective tone. but who knows, steven's always full of surprises! can't wait to hear what's next.
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damn S Dub kinda gettin hood widdit. :hat Not sure about this one.
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This guy seems to have really enjoyed the new album from that spatial sound listening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C27xbddtZGU&t=7&ab_channel=JimNewstead (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C27xbddtZGU&t=7&ab_channel=JimNewstead)
I really wished I lived closer to one of those sessions. I'd love to be immersed with an album in 18.1.12 sound.
Looks like Steven is also playing a 30 min live set of the album and then releasing that on CD for those attendants.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CwnZI8socU6/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CwnZI8socU6/)
I’m thrilled to announce a special launch event; Steven Wilson presents The Harmony Codex at EartH, on Wednesday 27th September, 7pm. There will be a spatial audio playback of the entire 65 minute album over EartH’s amazing immersive sound system, followed by a unique 30 minute solo live set of music from the album, also in spatial audio. EartH is equipped in L-Acoustics L-ISA spatial audio technology, placing the audience in a hemisphere of sound. The 17.1.8 system includes five frontal loudspeaker arrays, 12 surrounds, 8 overheads and 4 flown subwoofers, 69 speakers in total.
Exclusive to this event: The Harmony Codex (Earth Edition CD)
The Harmony Codex CD with 12 page booklet, wrapped in an exclusive slipcase in celebration of the event. Includes an exclusive code, only available with this CD format, to redeem a download of Steven’s 30 minute solo live set following the event. The download will be available on 11th October, full instructions on the slipcase. Please note: general admission tickets do NOT come with an album.
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I'm going to try to get a ticket to that later today. Doubt I'll be successful but well worth a go. Although I live in the middle of England, London's only an hour away on the train.
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So that reviewer who went to the session said that the 18.1.12 playback is a separate mix just for those sessions, that place is the only time you can hear it. He was over the moon about the whole experience.
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I'm going to try to get a ticket to that later today. Doubt I'll be successful but well worth a go. Although I live in the middle of England, London's only an hour away on the train.
I am going :biggrin:
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Awesome! Started on a SW binge, they are all so much fun to listen to. Just have insurgentes and to the bone left.
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Impossible Tightrope sounds more like it, at least the 93 second trailer does :biggrin:
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Looks like the LTD ED set is already sold out at BS and SWHQ.
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Just listened to the new single, and it sounds quite interesting! Definitely a step up from TFB for me, love the electronics and the piano. Kind of an odd choice for a single, but I dig it.
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Just listened to the new single, and it sounds quite interesting! Definitely a step up from TFB for me, love the electronics and the piano. Kind of an odd choice for a single, but I dig it.
I hear the second single promo and this album hits everything. Can't wait for my Blu Ray.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB6qyuM0MEg
VERY cool
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I got through 7 minutes of "Impossible Tightrope" on my drive to work a bit ago. Not bad! I'll probably avoid listening to it again until I have the album in full, but I like what I'm hearing so far.
-Marc.
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LOVE the new single
the composition is intricate and layered, with a depth that draws you in from the very first note. wilson's vocals are hauntingly beautiful, conveying a sense of vulnerability and longing that resonates with the listener. the lyrics are thought-provoking and poetic, adding another layer of meaning to the song. what truly sets "impossible tightrope" apart, though, is the instrumentation. the guitar work is mesmerizing, weaving in and out of the melody with precision and grace. the drums and bass provide a solid foundation, driving the song forward with a relentless energy. and the use of synthesizers and electronic elements adds a modern touch that feels fresh and innovative.
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Holy shit! what a mesmerizing journey.
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Excellent song!! The pairing Impossible Tightrope/Economies of Scale on Spotify sounds really good!
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Wilson's knack for weaving intricate instrumentals always leaves me impressed, the song's captivating atmosphere is undeniable.
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Impossible Tightrope was fantastic. I hope there are more tracks in this vein on the new album.
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Wow, Impossible Tightrope is really good. Might be the most engaging solo piece he's done.
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the guy who played bass for PT already posted a bass-cover on youtube. apparently he also plays a few tunes on the new album
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Listened to the new single, damn it's really good wtf. Seems this record will be a mix of every style he's ever done, and I'm so hyped for that.
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the guy who played bass for PT already posted a bass-cover on youtube. apparently he also plays a few tunes on the new album
Colin Edwin?! If that's the case that is a shocking turnaround after SW dumped him out of PT.
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the guy who played bass for PT already posted a bass-cover on youtube. apparently he also plays a few tunes on the new album
Colin Edwin?! If that's the case that is a shocking turnaround after SW dumped him out of PT.
Knowing Steven, I’m not sure this is all that surprising.
I’ve always figured him as a very “Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory” kind of a person. When viewed from that lens, he could have easily just started jamming on bass with Gavin, and then called Richard for some color and then literally just figured “sorry…didn’t need you this time” and be completely clueless as to why anyone would have a problem with it.
I’m not saying it’s right. I still think it’s kind of a dick move. I’m just thinking that he doesn’t process these things the same way normal people do, and I don’t believe it’s any sort of personal vendetta against Colin from his viewpoint.
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the guy who played bass for PT already posted a bass-cover on youtube. apparently he also plays a few tunes on the new album
Colin Edwin?! If that's the case that is a shocking turnaround after SW dumped him out of PT.
I think their touring bassist Nate Navarro is the more obvious one
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the guy who played bass for PT already posted a bass-cover on youtube. apparently he also plays a few tunes on the new album
I think they meant Nate Navarro, who has posted a bass cover of "Impossible Tightrope" on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lpc1UsRJV0&pp=ygUtU3RldmVuIFdpbHNvbiBJbXBvc3NpYmxlIFRpZ2h0cm9wZSBCYXNzIENvdmVy) (after a quick search). I forgot the name of the touring bassist that PT had for the C/C tour, but it's Nate.
I don't think Colin has gone anywhere NEAR Steven Wilson in over a decade, so I doubt his new solo album would have been any different. I'm sure Schurftkut didn't mean to play the pronoun game and perhaps assumed we all knew they meant Nate, but a proper name would have been helpful before anyone jumped to any conclusions. I didn't think it would be Colin, but I couldn't remember Nate's name off the top of my head, thus the YouTube search.
-Marc.
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Yes, as of today the only two people I know of who ever played bass for PT are Colin Edwin and Steven Wilson.
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yeah Nate, couldn't remember his name when i posted..
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just listened to the new single with Ninet, very pink floyd meets marillion vibe.
i think it's too much on the nose lyrically though, i feel his previous ballad with Ninet was better.
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Oh I assume that's coming out at local midnight then. This week has flown by!
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My favorite so far. The other two I quite liked but this is where it’s at for me. The emotion is totally there, something I missed in TFB. Glad the climaxes are back again. This song can stand proudly next to the other Ninet duets.
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My favorite so far. The other two I quite liked but this is where it’s at for me. The emotion is totally there, something I missed in TFB. Glad the climaxes are back again. This song can stand proudly next to the other Ninet duets.
I'm in agreement. Best of the singles so far. Raises my hopes for the new album.
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just listened to the new single with Ninet, very pink floyd meets marillion vibe.
i think it's too much on the nose lyrically though, i feel his previous ballad with Ninet was better.
More on the nose than “I’m tired of Facebook”?
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New single is great, but I still prefer Impossible Tightrope.
Really looking forward to the rest of the album!
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(https://i.imgur.com/7A7ebxa.png)
thought it was funny seeing those two events next to eachother ;)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khY7ICfIxmw
long interview
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There’s an ascending and descending vocal melody in Ninet’s middle part that kind of recalls the falsetto repeating part towards the end in Economies of Scale. It’s contextualized differently but it makes me wonder if we might see recurring motifs throughout the album.
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I have been listening to Rock Bottom, going crazy trying to figure out what it reminded me of. I have an answer now: Anathema.
This is what I imagine Anathema would sound like if they were still active today.
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I thought this was a rather good read: https://www.innerviews.org/inner/steven-wilson-5
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New song out, pretty good again I think!
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I haven't heard any of the songs yet, I'm trying my hardest to stay away until the album is released (which I think is soon).
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Unimportant and probably obvious to everyone but me, but I just realized The Future Bites is a play on the phrase “the future’s bright”.
I’m going to avoid listening to anything new songs until it comes out. I overdid it with TFB and felt underwhelmed when I finally listened to the entire thing.
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Getting late Pink Floyd vibes from What Life Brings.
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what life brings rules. loving this one
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From the perspective of a middle-aged American man and a fan of progressive rock, I must admit that while I respect Steven Wilson as a musician, I find his vocal delivery somewhat lacking. Wilson's vocals often strike me as somewhat flat and lacking the dynamic range and power that I appreciate in a progressive rock vocalist. Tough to swallow when you're used to James LaBrie!
Additionally, Wilson's opinions, at times, come off as presumptuous and overconfident. While I respect artists expressing their views, there are instances where his statements seem to lack a certain humility or an understanding of differing perspectives. In contrast, the members of Dream Theater, in my opinion, often display a more open-minded approach, both in their music and in their interactions with fans and the community.
I'll check out the new album when it's out, just to build rapport with the people here. But I'm not sure I'll love it. Consider me on the fence!
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Well, Steven Wilson is nothing if not presumptuous and overconfident. But artists are all different from each other, in sound, viewpoints, opinions, everything.
Don't compare everyone to Dream Theater, as if they are the benchmark. There is no benchmark.
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He's admitted that he's just an adequate singer. It's his craft I love.
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From the perspective of a middle-aged American man and a fan of progressive rock, I must admit that while I respect Steven Wilson as a musician, I find his vocal delivery somewhat lacking. Wilson's vocals often strike me as somewhat flat and lacking the dynamic range and power that I appreciate in a progressive rock vocalist. Tough to swallow when you're used to James LaBrie!
I think he pushes himself a bit more live. It's definitely worth seeking out if you find yourself digging an album track (PT or solo stuff).
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He's admitted that he's just an adequate singer. It's his craft I love.
yep. btw, congrats on 57k posts
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He's admitted that he's just an adequate singer. It's his craft I love.
yep. btw, congrats on 57k posts
What a postwhore
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That should be my new name on the forum.
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That should be my new name on the forum.
Yeah, it shoud.
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That should be my new name on the forum.
Yeah, it shoud.
As somebody who has avatars and signatures disabled, please no. I'm never going to remember who anyone is around here.
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I'm honored.
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Well, Steven Wilson is nothing if not presumptuous and overconfident. But artists are all different from each other, in sound, viewpoints, opinions, everything.
Don't compare everyone to Dream Theater, as if they are the benchmark. There is no benchmark.
Hello there,
Before I respond, please confirm that this is a suggestion, rather than a forum rule.
Thank you,
TGA
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Well, Steven Wilson is nothing if not presumptuous and overconfident. But artists are all different from each other, in sound, viewpoints, opinions, everything.
Don't compare everyone to Dream Theater, as if they are the benchmark. There is no benchmark.
Hello there,
Before I respond, please confirm that this is a suggestion, rather than a forum rule.
Thank you,
TGA
Not a forum rule (that I'm aware of at least!). More of a suggestion from Heff I imagine to not think of one band/artist as objectively better than another.
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I always felt that SW wrote really well to fit his vocal style. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and writes to them. I've never had a problem with his singing.
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Well, Steven Wilson is nothing if not presumptuous and overconfident. But artists are all different from each other, in sound, viewpoints, opinions, everything.
Don't compare everyone to Dream Theater, as if they are the benchmark. There is no benchmark.
Hello there,
Before I respond, please confirm that this is a suggestion, rather than a forum rule.
Thank you,
TGA
Suggestion. Not a rule. He's just interacting with you. All good.
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Well, Steven Wilson is nothing if not presumptuous and overconfident. But artists are all different from each other, in sound, viewpoints, opinions, everything.
Don't compare everyone to Dream Theater, as if they are the benchmark. There is no benchmark.
Hello there,
Before I respond, please confirm that this is a suggestion, rather than a forum rule.
Thank you,
TGA
The forum rules are posted. You won't find this among them. Check for yourself.
The Rules (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=7.0)
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I always felt that SW wrote really well to fit his vocal style. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and writes to them. I've never had a problem with his singing.
Yeah, I have no issues with his vocals. They are solid for my ears. His personality is a huge turn off for me though.
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I always felt that SW wrote really well to fit his vocal style. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and writes to them. I've never had a problem with his singing.
Yeah, I have no issues with his vocals. They are solid for my ears. His personality is a huge turn off for me though.
Agreed on the personality :lol
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I don't like SW's vocals or his personality. :-P
Tongue in cheek on the personality thing though. I do enjoy listening to him talk about music on his podcast. He has come across poorly in interviews over the years, but I think I understand his personality better than I used to.
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I always felt that SW wrote really well to fit his vocal style. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and writes to them. I've never had a problem with his singing.
Yeah, I have no issues with his vocals. They are solid for my ears. His personality is a huge turn off for me though.
Agreed on there personality :lol
For sure. But he's never going to join me for a beer and conversation, so that's fine.
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I always felt that SW wrote really well to fit his vocal style. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and writes to them. I've never had a problem with his singing.
Yeah, I have no issues with his vocals. They are solid for my ears. His personality is a huge turn off for me though.
Agreed on there personality :lol
For sure. But he's never going to join me for a beer and conversation, so that's fine.
Yeah, but I can choose not to give money to someone who actively rips one of my favorite young bands. His consistent hatred towards Greta Van Fleet is a very big reason why I have no desire to give him money anymore. GVF absolutely blows SW or PT out of the water in terms of a live show and on their limited releases IMO. Just the utter disrespect he shows. Also, to me, it completely comes off as jealousy of their success.
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Totally fair.
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I always felt that SW wrote really well to fit his vocal style. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and writes to them. I've never had a problem with his singing.
Yeah, I have no issues with his vocals. They are solid for my ears. His personality is a huge turn off for me though.
Agreed on there personality :lol
For sure. But he's never going to join me for a beer and conversation, so that's fine.
Yeah, but I can choose not to give money to someone who actively rips one of my favorite young bands. His consistent hatred towards Greta Van Fleet is a very big reason why I have no desire to give him money anymore. GVF absolutely blows SW or PT out of the water in terms of a live show and on their limited releases IMO. Just the utter disrespect he shows. Also, to me, it completely comes off as jealousy of their success.
So an artist can't talk about their own opinions about a band in the same vein some of us here talk about bands? :lol
Why is Steven held to such a high standard that when he states his opinions like we all do about bands and even DT he is all of a sudden seen as being jealous and showing disrespect.
He has his music tastes and he is not afraid to state his opinions about certain bands.
I have seen opinions about bands on here that are in the same vein as Stevens opinions about bands.
Edit: I just find your wording funny, like using "Utter disrespect". :lol
This part of a long interview explains a lot of what I am getting at...
Steven Wilson’s Surprising Thoughts on Chris Martin and Coldplay (https://youtu.be/OqFdbGh0Yj0?si=To8cOsyHLkO7F_Yf)
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You can disagree with anyone who freely gives their opinions. I love Steven's music, but he freely gives his harsh opinions and should be open to ridicule.
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I thought this was a rather good read: https://www.innerviews.org/inner/steven-wilson-5
Watching this now and it's interesting hearing his perspective about music.
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I always felt that SW wrote really well to fit his vocal style. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and writes to them. I've never had a problem with his singing.
Yeah, I have no issues with his vocals. They are solid for my ears. His personality is a huge turn off for me though.
Agreed on there personality :lol
For sure. But he's never going to join me for a beer and conversation, so that's fine.
Yeah, but I can choose not to give money to someone who actively rips one of my favorite young bands. His consistent hatred towards Greta Van Fleet is a very big reason why I have no desire to give him money anymore. GVF absolutely blows SW or PT out of the water in terms of a live show and on their limited releases IMO. Just the utter disrespect he shows. Also, to me, it completely comes off as jealousy of their success.
So an artist can't talk about their own opinions about a band in the same vein some of us here talk about bands? :lol
Why is Steven held to such a high standard that when he states his opinions like we all do about bands and even DT he is all of a sudden seen as being jealous and showing disrespect.
He has his music tastes and he is not afraid to state his opinions about certain bands.
I have seen opinions about bands on here that are in the same vein as Stevens opinions about bands.
Edit: I just find your wording funny, like using "Utter disrespect". :lol
This part of a long interview explains a lot of what I am getting at...
Steven Wilson’s Surprising Thoughts on Chris Martin and Coldplay (https://youtu.be/OqFdbGh0Yj0?si=To8cOsyHLkO7F_Yf)
Weird, that interview doesn’t mention either Chris Martin or Coldplay.
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I've always taken what SW says with a grain of salt - he's super opinionated and not right all of the time, but I think he knows that. He'd rather have a discussion about music and take some swings as opposed to just playing nice and I guess that can seem pretty mean. I find it insightful and entertaining, for better or worse.
...I can see where he's coming from with GVF, hahah.
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So an artist can't talk about their own opinions about a band in the same vein some of us here talk about bands? :lol
Why is Steven held to such a high standard that when he states his opinions like we all do about bands and even DT he is all of a sudden seen as being jealous and showing disrespect.
He has his music tastes and he is not afraid to state his opinions about certain bands.
I have seen opinions about bands on here that are in the same vein as Stevens opinions about bands.
Edit: I just find your wording funny, like using "Utter disrespect". :lol
This part of a long interview explains a lot of what I am getting at...
Steven Wilson’s Surprising Thoughts on Chris Martin and Coldplay (https://youtu.be/OqFdbGh0Yj0?si=To8cOsyHLkO7F_Yf)
Weird, that interview doesn’t mention either Chris Martin or Coldplay.
Um... I think you might have somehow watched the wrong interview? :lol
As for the rest of the chat here, I love listening to Steven talk. I find him engaging and I love the fact he's opinionated. Perhaps it's because we grew up geographically close to each other on the edge of London that I find the way he presents himself to be rather 'normal'.
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I have no problem with his personality or opinions. I enjoy watching/reading his interviews, and I enjoyed his book very much *shrug*
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I thought this was a rather good read: https://www.innerviews.org/inner/steven-wilson-5
Watching this now and it's interesting hearing his perspective about music.
Oh, there were two different interviews links close together and I assumed they were the same thing!
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I always felt that SW wrote really well to fit his vocal style. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and writes to them. I've never had a problem with his singing.
Yeah, I have no issues with his vocals. They are solid for my ears. His personality is a huge turn off for me though.
Agreed on there personality :lol
For sure. But he's never going to join me for a beer and conversation, so that's fine.
Yeah, but I can choose not to give money to someone who actively rips one of my favorite young bands. His consistent hatred towards Greta Van Fleet is a very big reason why I have no desire to give him money anymore. GVF absolutely blows SW or PT out of the water in terms of a live show and on their limited releases IMO. Just the utter disrespect he shows. Also, to me, it completely comes off as jealousy of their success.
So an artist can't talk about their own opinions about a band in the same vein some of us here talk about bands? :lol
Why is Steven held to such a high standard that when he states his opinions like we all do about bands and even DT he is all of a sudden seen as being jealous and showing disrespect.
He has his music tastes and he is not afraid to state his opinions about certain bands.
I have seen opinions about bands on here that are in the same vein as Stevens opinions about bands.
Edit: I just find your wording funny, like using "Utter disrespect". :lol
This part of a long interview explains a lot of what I am getting at...
Steven Wilson’s Surprising Thoughts on Chris Martin and Coldplay (https://youtu.be/OqFdbGh0Yj0?si=To8cOsyHLkO7F_Yf)
Maybe you should read his comments. It was disrespectful and he's double downed on them. He's in the industry, he's held to a different standard than us "fans". He's allowed to have his opinions, but publicly expressing them (and I think his opinions are distasteful here, it's not a typical "not my type of music" becuse I'm pretty sure it IS his type of music) makes it fair game for me to have a negative reaction towards it. I think these quotes would get someone reprimanded here if they said it about DT
That terrible band Greta Van Fleet, you know that band? I think they’re absolutely abysmal. I think they’re terrible; I think it’s a joke.
“They’re an example of a band – because they’re pretty young boys, they look like a boy band, they play this really piss-poor third-rate impersonation of Led Zeppelin.
“But they’re pretty and they’ve had all the help of the media and the commercial machine behind them, and they’ve been able to reach a massive audience overnight by playing third-rate music.
“I don’t believe for one minute that anyone will remember who they are in 10 years. Maybe they’ll prove me wrong and develop into a good band and make a good record, but the point is, at the moment, they’re not.
https://metalinjection.net/news/drama/steve-wilson-slams-greta-van-fleet-calls-them-a-boy-band-version-of-led-zeppelin (https://metalinjection.net/news/drama/steve-wilson-slams-greta-van-fleet-calls-them-a-boy-band-version-of-led-zeppelin)
Also, they've been a band for 10 years now and are bigger than ever so he's also just flat out wrong. (tbf, their first music released wasn't until 2017 though, so maybe in 4 years we can come back and see, but I can guarantee they will be pretty popular still)
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I always felt that SW wrote really well to fit his vocal style. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and writes to them. I've never had a problem with his singing.
Yeah, I have no issues with his vocals. They are solid for my ears. His personality is a huge turn off for me though.
Agreed on there personality :lol
For sure. But he's never going to join me for a beer and conversation, so that's fine.
Yeah, but I can choose not to give money to someone who actively rips one of my favorite young bands. His consistent hatred towards Greta Van Fleet is a very big reason why I have no desire to give him money anymore. GVF absolutely blows SW or PT out of the water in terms of a live show and on their limited releases IMO. Just the utter disrespect he shows. Also, to me, it completely comes off as jealousy of their success.
So an artist can't talk about their own opinions about a band in the same vein some of us here talk about bands? :lol
Why is Steven held to such a high standard that when he states his opinions like we all do about bands and even DT he is all of a sudden seen as being jealous and showing disrespect.
He has his music tastes and he is not afraid to state his opinions about certain bands.
I have seen opinions about bands on here that are in the same vein as Stevens opinions about bands.
Edit: I just find your wording funny, like using "Utter disrespect". :lol
This part of a long interview explains a lot of what I am getting at...
Steven Wilson’s Surprising Thoughts on Chris Martin and Coldplay (https://youtu.be/OqFdbGh0Yj0?si=To8cOsyHLkO7F_Yf)
Maybe you should read his comments. It was disrespectful and he's double downed on them. He's in the industry, he's held to a different standard than us "fans". He's allowed to have his opinions, but publicly expressing them (and I think his opinions are distasteful here, it's not a typical "not my type of music" becuse I'm pretty sure it IS his type of music) makes it fair game for me to have a negative reaction towards it. I think these quotes would get someone reprimanded here if they said it about DT
That terrible band Greta Van Fleet, you know that band? I think they’re absolutely abysmal. I think they’re terrible; I think it’s a joke.
“They’re an example of a band – because they’re pretty young boys, they look like a boy band, they play this really piss-poor third-rate impersonation of Led Zeppelin.
“But they’re pretty and they’ve had all the help of the media and the commercial machine behind them, and they’ve been able to reach a massive audience overnight by playing third-rate music.
“I don’t believe for one minute that anyone will remember who they are in 10 years. Maybe they’ll prove me wrong and develop into a good band and make a good record, but the point is, at the moment, they’re not.
https://metalinjection.net/news/drama/steve-wilson-slams-greta-van-fleet-calls-them-a-boy-band-version-of-led-zeppelin (https://metalinjection.net/news/drama/steve-wilson-slams-greta-van-fleet-calls-them-a-boy-band-version-of-led-zeppelin)
Also, they've been a band for 10 years now and are bigger than ever so he's also just flat out wrong. (tbf, their first music released wasn't until 2017 though, so maybe in 4 years we can come back and see, but I can guarantee they will be pretty popular still)
He really dwells into the music industry and commercial machine in his latest interview that was posted. It's a great interview and It's great getting to see his perspective about the music industry.
Best part was when he mentioned how he even got death threats from Opeth Fans who blamed him for changing their sound. That's the fascinating part about this entire discussion.
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I think he's right about GVF. Their meteoric rise in popularity that happened early on seemed manufactured by promoters and rock media. They were a touring headline act before they even had an album out. Maybe SW could've stated it more eloquently, but I think the issue at hand is really about problems in the music industry itself. Rock music has been in a rut for a while and it seems like there's an appetite for unoriginal throwback rock bands. I'm not sure that really bodes well for the future of the music.
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I can’t stand the singer of GVF. I respect that you like them, cram, but this (https://youtu.be/t6pQS_zBRB4?si=mRvjU1M12bXkF7As) is sandpaper to my ears
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i gotta be honest, GVF ain't really my jam. i've heard a few of their songs, like "sucker" and "burnin' up," and they just don't do it for me. "sucker" has that catchy pop beat, but the lyrics feel a bit shallow, you know? it's all about being whipped for someone, and it's just not my vibe and "burnin' up" is a bit better with its rock edge, but it still feels a bit generic to me.
i guess it's just a matter of personal taste, but i prefer music with more depth and meaning. GVFs' stuff just doesn't resonate with me like that. to each their own, though!
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I think he's right about GVF. Their meteoric rise in popularity that happened early on seemed manufactured by promoters and rock media. They were a touring headline act before they even had an album out. Maybe SW could've stated it more eloquently, but I think the issue at hand is really about problems in the music industry itself. Rock music has been in a rut for a while and it seems like there's an appetite for unoriginal throwback rock bands. I'm not sure that really bodes well for the future of the music.
There's no doubt they got some special media attention. Doesn't take away from the music. Honeslty though, their popularity seems to come from a very large female following.
I can’t stand the singer of GVF. I respect that you like them, cram, but this (https://youtu.be/t6pQS_zBRB4?si=mRvjU1M12bXkF7As) is sandpaper to my ears
He's the best part of GVF, but sure, like JLB, he's not for everyone. The live show definitely has a lot of that though :lol but I'd personally rate him as one of the best vocalists in rock music under the age of 30.
i gotta be honest, GVF ain't really my jam. i've heard a few of their songs, like "sucker" and "burnin' up," and they just don't do it for me. "sucker" has that catchy pop beat, but the lyrics feel a bit shallow, you know? it's all about being whipped for someone, and it's just not my vibe and "burnin' up" is a bit better with its rock edge, but it still feels a bit generic to me.
i guess it's just a matter of personal taste, but i prefer music with more depth and meaning. GVFs' stuff just doesn't resonate with me like that. to each their own, though!
Which songs are those?
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i gotta be honest, GVF ain't really my jam. i've heard a few of their songs, like "sucker" and "burnin' up," and they just don't do it for me. "sucker" has that catchy pop beat, but the lyrics feel a bit shallow, you know? it's all about being whipped for someone, and it's just not my vibe and "burnin' up" is a bit better with its rock edge, but it still feels a bit generic to me.
i guess it's just a matter of personal taste, but i prefer music with more depth and meaning. GVFs' stuff just doesn't resonate with me like that. to each their own, though!
Which songs are those?
oh shit, i just double checked my notes and realized i had confused Greta Van Fleet with the Jonas Brothers. now that i'm looking i don't think i've ever heard GVF before, do you have any recommendations?
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i gotta be honest, GVF ain't really my jam. i've heard a few of their songs, like "sucker" and "burnin' up," and they just don't do it for me. "sucker" has that catchy pop beat, but the lyrics feel a bit shallow, you know? it's all about being whipped for someone, and it's just not my vibe and "burnin' up" is a bit better with its rock edge, but it still feels a bit generic to me.
i guess it's just a matter of personal taste, but i prefer music with more depth and meaning. GVFs' stuff just doesn't resonate with me like that. to each their own, though!
Which songs are those?
oh shit, i just double checked my notes and realized i had confused Greta Van Fleet with the Jonas Brothers. now that i'm looking i don't think i've ever heard GVF before, do you have any recommendations?
:lol I honestly couldn't tell if it was a mistake or a joke that I didn't get.
Here's a song from their new album, not a single, but seems to be a popular one and the song they are ending their sets with now (I personally dig it as well)
The Archer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpejg82AmMY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpejg82AmMY)
Light My Love (my favorite ballad of theirs)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3bHTm_xs2Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3bHTm_xs2Y)
Highway Tune (I personally don't usually recommedn this, it's their biggest and first hit (as teenagers) that is basically why everyone says they are Led Zeppelin, but for education purposes...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJg4OJxp-co (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJg4OJxp-co)
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I think he's right about GVF. Their meteoric rise in popularity that happened early on seemed manufactured by promoters and rock media. They were a touring headline act before they even had an album out. Maybe SW could've stated it more eloquently, but I think the issue at hand is really about problems in the music industry itself. Rock music has been in a rut for a while and it seems like there's an appetite for unoriginal throwback rock bands. I'm not sure that really bodes well for the future of the music.
There's no doubt they got some special media attention. Doesn't take away from the music. Honeslty though, their popularity seems to come from a very large female following.
For sure, if you like it you like it. I'm sure plenty of classic rock bands' success was artificially produced as well (honestly the original Zeppelin seems that way).
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I think he's right about GVF. Their meteoric rise in popularity that happened early on seemed manufactured by promoters and rock media. They were a touring headline act before they even had an album out. Maybe SW could've stated it more eloquently, but I think the issue at hand is really about problems in the music industry itself. Rock music has been in a rut for a while and it seems like there's an appetite for unoriginal throwback rock bands. I'm not sure that really bodes well for the future of the music.
There's no doubt they got some special media attention. Doesn't take away from the music. Honeslty though, their popularity seems to come from a very large female following.
For sure, if you like it you like it. I'm sure plenty of classic rock bands' success was artificially produced as well (honestly the original Zeppelin seems that way).
TBF, I do think SW's comments about media pumping them up and the question if legacy rock sounds being popular is a good thing for rock's future are reasonable viewpoints for discussions. It's calling them a boy band, a joke, and absymal is where I get really bothered. They've done nothing to SW to deserve that. And I still very much think the music is also something SW would probaby actually enjoy and respect if he wasn't clouded by his feelings. (GVH are inspired by a lot of the same music as SW)
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Agreed and I've had problems with SW doing that in the past - he targeted bands like Spock's Beard and Flower Kings unfairly back in the day IMO. It's not like SW doesn't make throwback sounding music himself. Raven That Refused To Sing is arguably his most popular solo album and that sounds like it came straight out of 1972.
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The new album by STEVEN WILSON is available for review.
Anyone?
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The new album by STEVEN WILSON is available for review.
Anyone?
I would love to take a shot! let me know what's involved
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The new album by STEVEN WILSON is available for review.
Anyone?
I would love to take a shot! let me know what's involved
Ugg, just got someonr to do it. Sorry
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The new album by STEVEN WILSON is available for review.
Anyone?
I would love to take a shot! let me know what's involved
Ugg, just got someonr to do it. Sorry
no worries, next time. i love writing reviews! my game and film ones i don't let anyone read but i like to write public music reviews. you can see some of my other posts for samples
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I wonder when Burning Shed starts shipping international orders. I'd imagine it takes at least a week to get to the US from the UK. I've avoided listening to all the singles so far and just want to dive in the Blu-ray when I get it.
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I wonder when Burning Shed starts shipping international orders. I'd imagine it takes at least a week to get to the US from the UK. I've avoided listening to all the singles so far and just want to dive in the Blu-ray when I get it.
IIRC from past experience, Burning Shed will ship orders to the US anywhere between 1 and 5 days before the release date. I think it depends on when they get their stock in. Looking at my past pre-orders from the past year, they shipped Haken's Fauna the day before release date, but PT's Deadwing Deluxe Edition five days before (same release date as Fauna but sent out the Monday of that week). My pre-order of King Crimson At 50 also shipped the Monday before release date, but Transatlantic's Final Flight: Live At L'Olympia just three days before release date.
If we're lucky, they'll ship them out next Monday and get it about a week later, depending on how fast or slow Royal Mail is (which has been pretty bad for me lately in terms of waiting for mail from the UK the past couple of months).
-Marc.
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I see, I looked at my orders and I've only ordered twice from them before. One was lost in the mail which was the Nil Recurring EP and another was the Home Invasion bluray.
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BS shipped my deluxe edition today, should take about a week to AU from England.
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BS shipped my deluxe edition today, should take about a week to AU from England.
Nice.... I hope they will send mine today too then.
..
No confirmation mail yet though.
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Really looking forward to the event in London on Wednesday evening. A preview listen of the album followed by a 30 minute set. Should be a pretty unique experience, all told.
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Really looking forward to the event in London on Wednesday evening. A preview listen of the album followed by a 30 minute set. Should be a pretty unique experience, all told.
So jealous you get to attend those, I really wished I was near one of those events.
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it's SW week fam!
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it's SW week fam!
Very stoked for this album! :metal (would like an electronic dance music emoji) :D
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it's SW week fam!
Very stoked for this album! :metal (would like an electronic dance music emoji) :D
:dammitnick: :dammitnick: :dammitnick:
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Still haven’t heard a single note yet. Very much looking forward to it.
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i used to approach new music that way (avoid the singles)
i should try that again. i've heard the SW singles a few times each already :lol
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Looking forward to this one. I've overlistened the singles already but that doesn't matter. I was planning to hold off listening to the pre-release singles but I stood no chance. Like, at all. If SW releases something, I have to hear it.
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Still haven’t heard a single note yet. Very much looking forward to it.
I haven't, either. For something he's said is meant to be a cinematic experience, he's released a lot of music from it. Anyway, really looking forward to hearing the whole thing in such a cool setting! And then on Friday I'll hopefully be able to listen to it on my own Atmos set-up.
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given his emphasis on how "whole" and "sonic experience" he has intended this album to be it's really weird he released half the songs already :lol
maybe he just bowed to label pressure or something but definitely weird to extoll how important the album is as a cohesive whole and then chop it up for promotional reasons!
that being said i'm so excited
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Avenged Sevenfold did a "sudden release" for The Stage and it was a disaster for them financially, apparently. So, I think it would have been bad for SW too, especially after his last effort wasn't received as warmly as the ones that preceded it.
I kind of understand the idea behind releasing singles to create album hype.
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Noone forces you to listen to the singles.
I have heard the first two one time each so when the album drops it will be quite fresh to my ears.
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Avenged Sevenfold did a "sudden release" for The Stage and it was a disaster for them financially, apparently. So, I think it would have been bad for SW too, especially after his last effort wasn't received as warmly as the ones that preceded it.
I kind of understand the idea behind releasing singles to create album hype.
Does that say more about the music business, or the consumer?
Meaning, does the audience of the artists music need to hear a sample first before purchasing the album?
There's people here who won't even bother listening to singles and would rather go in blind and wait until it's released to hear one single note.
Honestly, that says a lot about how people consume music nowadays. And it plays into why Steven has his opinions about the current state of music consumption and how people just are not interested in that "album experience_.
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that's really interesting, is there more details/study on the a7x album? like did it fail because of the manner in which it was released, or was it not well accepted by fans?
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that's really interesting, is there more details/study on the a7x album? like did it fail because of the manner in which it was released, or was it not well accepted by fans?
That's the question.....
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Avenged Sevenfold did a "sudden release" for The Stage and it was a disaster for them financially, apparently. So, I think it would have been bad for SW too, especially after his last effort wasn't received as warmly as the ones that preceded it.
I kind of understand the idea behind releasing singles to create album hype.
Does that say more about the music business, or the consumer?
Meaning, does the audience of the artists music need to hear a sample first before purchasing the album?
There's people here who won't even bother listening to singles and would rather go in blind and wait until it's released to hear one single note.
Honestly, that says a lot about how people consume music nowadays. And it plays into why Steven has his opinions about the current state of music consumption and how people just are not interested in that "album experience_.
It's both consumer/business. The business model meets what the average consumer is looking for. This forum is not a good example as people here are likely wayyy more into music than the average fan. The A7X thing didn't work because average consumer didn't know about it. I knew about it, because they released the single the day before the album and I saw it and loved the single then followed along for the surprise announcement. If you aren't actively following the band on social media, you probably had no idea.
But when the business does what the business does, the average fan is more likely to be aware of the new album and also more likely to know some of the new music already from the months of promotion leading up to release.
that's really interesting, is there more details/study on the a7x album? like did it fail because of the manner in which it was released, or was it not well accepted by fans?
That's the question.....
I'm no expert but it seems it failed due to the way it was released. The album was accepted by the fans and enjoyed. I'm sure someone could pull up the thread from here upon release. I know it wasn't universally liked, it was a clear shift to a proggier sound, but it seemed to be well received.
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I've been thinking about how the music scene has evolved with streaming. Seems like musicians are dropping more singles these days, right? I reckon it's 'cause repeat plays matter more than just selling a CD. Streaming platforms want folks coming back for more, so dropping frequent singles keeps us engaged and them streaming those tunes! 🎶 What do y'all think about this theory?
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I've been thinking about how the music scene has evolved with streaming. Seems like musicians are dropping more singles these days, right? I reckon it's 'cause repeat plays matter more than just selling a CD. Streaming platforms want folks coming back for more, so dropping frequent singles keeps us engaged and them streaming those tunes! 🎶 What do y'all think about this theory?
I'm pretty sure it's not a theory, but a fact at this point. It's been talked about in the media for awhile now that traditional albums are going away in favor of more singles. Not a big fan of it myself, but it does seem the way we consume music (streaming) is a big reason for this trend.
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i'll never understand that. i personally love listening to full albums on spotify!
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Nooo, stock delay in Steven Wilson store. And since it is import and the UK is not EU anymore, I assume my album will arrive late next week. While I have listened to the singles, I will probably save listening to the entire album for when my package arrives.
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Was it announced somewhere? I still haven't received a shipping notice from Burning Shed so I imagine there is a stock delay.
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Was it announced somewhere? I still haven't received a shipping notice from Burning Shed so I imagine there is a stock delay.
Me neither....
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The Steven Wilson store team mailed me they are still waiting for the stock to arrive (they expect it in the coming days). Normally they send it a couple of days in advance, but that is not possible due to stock arriving (slightly) late.
Maybe Burning Shed got the stock in time, who knows. And maybe it depends on which version. I got the deluxe and the colored vinyl. Vinyl releases tend to have a lot of delays lately due to the large demand on factories.
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The Steven Wilson store team mailed me they are still waiting for the stock to arrive (they expect it in the coming days). Normally they send it a couple of days in advance, but that is not possible due to stock arriving (slightly) late.
Yep, got this email in the morning as well.
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Just got confirmation that mine has been shipped
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Well I got an email as well from burning shed that the order is delayed.. great
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Just got this email from Burning Shed:
Hi
Thank you for pre-ordering Steven Wilson’s The Harmony Codex deluxe edition from Burning Shed.
Due to stock delivery delays, your order has not yet been dispatched.
Events beyond our control mean that the final part of our stock delivery is not expected to arrive until later next week.
We are very sorry for the delay and any inconvenience caused.
You will be sent a shipping notification email on the day your order has been dispatched.
Kind Regards
Pete
support@burningshed.com
The least they could do is offer those of us who pre-ordered the deluxe edition an MP3 version of the main album. I mean, not that I couldn't stream it or find it elsewhere online, but I'd like to get a reliable, good quality mp3 download from the store I ordered from.
Big bummer, but at least they finally sent an email out of SOME sort.
-Marc.
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Steven Wilson is like Gandalf. his album arrives precisely when it means to
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Steven Wilson is like Gandalf. his album arrives precisely when it means to
Except he's not the one causing the delays. He even posted this morning that it's coming out on Friday and was giving fans another peak at the album from his home computer and that tomorrow would be the last day to pre-order it.
It's coming out on Friday, at the very least, digitally. Shipping companies have just screwed folks over once again.
-Marc.
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At the London preview now. Album just finished. VERY cinematic. Cannot imagine any track working alone. Also a very grown up album. Second half felt stronger? Some of it SO emotional. Most of the drums sound programmed and... kinda tribal?
Waiting for his acoustic set now.
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At the London preview now. Album just finished. VERY cinematic. Cannot imagine any track working alone. Also a very grown up album. Second half felt stronger? Some of it SO emotional. Most of the drums sound programmed and... kinda tribal?
Waiting for his acoustic set now.
Awesome!
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At the London preview now. Album just finished. VERY cinematic. Cannot imagine any track working alone. Also a very grown up album. Second half felt stronger? Some of it SO emotional. Most of the drums sound programmed and... kinda tribal?
Waiting for his acoustic set now.
Sounds great!
All singles thus far were first half and in my opinion worked well on their own, but I can't wait to hear it as a whole. Also can't wait for the alternative version.
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Avenged Sevenfold did a "sudden release" for The Stage and it was a disaster for them financially, apparently. So, I think it would have been bad for SW too, especially after his last effort wasn't received as warmly as the ones that preceded it.
I kind of understand the idea behind releasing singles to create album hype.
Does that say more about the music business, or the consumer?
Meaning, does the audience of the artists music need to hear a sample first before purchasing the album?
There's people here who won't even bother listening to singles and would rather go in blind and wait until it's released to hear one single note.
Honestly, that says a lot about how people consume music nowadays. And it plays into why Steven has his opinions about the current state of music consumption and how people just are not interested in that "album experience_.
I think rock and metal music missed out on the commercial opportunities that singles and extended plays would have presented purely because the musicians are too fixated on "the album experience". Times change and the declining popularity of rock and metal is the evidence of this.
Personally, I don't want an album full of mediocre songs with some great moments and would much rather prefer a great EP or one great single.
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At the London preview now. Album just finished. VERY cinematic. Cannot imagine any track working alone. Also a very grown up album. Second half felt stronger? Some of it SO emotional. Most of the drums sound programmed and... kinda tribal?
Waiting for his acoustic set now.
Sounds great!
All singles thus far were first half and in my opinion worked well on their own, but I can't wait to hear it as a whole. Also can't wait for the alternative version.
Ah, that's interesting re the singles. I hadn't heard any before last night's show. There's a beautiful electronic sounding piece towards the end of the album with a spoken intro and outro that he also played in the solo set after the playthrough. It's almost hypnotic. For me, the album felt a little like an extension of the The Future Bites (sorry to those who aren't fans!) with aspects of Insurgentes. But one thing is for sure, it really is cinematic. Oh, and there's a track towards the end where Steven almost... raps?! And it was one of my favourites :omg:
The solo set wasn't acoustic, it was electronic (my mistake). Steven only played the keyboards, he had someone on stage with him who played what was almost exclusively ambient guitar. I loved the fact Steven didn't say a single word. The guitarist walked off at the end, leaving Steven playing a few more notes then Steven himself just walked off in the dark. It was almost a mic drop moment! Actually rather cool :lol
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It was Niko Tsonev. He has played with SW's solo band before. Would of loved to be there for this show.
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The least they could do is offer those of us who pre-ordered the deluxe edition an MP3 version of the main album. I mean, not that I couldn't stream it or find it elsewhere online, but I'd like to get a reliable, good quality mp3 download from the store I ordered from.
Big bummer, but at least they finally sent an email out of SOME sort.
-Marc.
I am actually surprised that you'd think that a small independent online seller could offer such a service at very short notice.
To get permission from the artist/label, then the admin involved in sending out codes, paying for server space for the small amount of affected people is not realistic.
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The least they could do is offer those of us who pre-ordered the deluxe edition an MP3 version of the main album. I mean, not that I couldn't stream it or find it elsewhere online, but I'd like to get a reliable, good quality mp3 download from the store I ordered from.
Big bummer, but at least they finally sent an email out of SOME sort.
-Marc.
I am actually surprised that you'd think that a small independent online seller could offer such a service at very short notice.
To get permission from the artist/label, then the admin involved in sending out codes, paying for server space for the small amount of affected people is not realistic.
Wishful thinking, I know, but I can dream, right? Given how SW has been hyping this album up, you'd think he'd want his fans to listen to it ASAP and not have to resort to streaming services or worse just to hear the new album. Ah well.... I guess I'll be hoping onto YouTube tomorrow or wherever (since I don't use iTunes or Spotify or anything like that).
-Marc.
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But the actual distribution and getting his product to the end users, is nothing to do with SW, that's down to the label and agencies world wide that handle the distribution for different territories.
Myself as a defence logistic specialist can attest to the challenges of moving something as simple as a washer/O-ring from A to B is not always smooth.
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My deluxe edition arrives yesterday at my PO box and I collected it today, first time I've ever pre-ordered and got it on release day.
The box is weighty and contains lots of images and text, going to spin the Atmos mix first :biggrin:
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Listening now…
The first few tracks were ok, not the SW style that I love but they were fine. Just got to Impossible Tightrope though, now THIS is more like it. It might be some of the best solo material I’ve heard from him.
Edit: Just finishing this up and I was pleasantly surprised. I wasn’t expecting to like this as much as I did, as my interest in Steven has kinda dropped off over recent years. I thought this was roughly a 50/50 split, in first listen, of songs I liked and songs that were just retreading what he’s done before (not that there’s necessarily anything wrong with that). I’ll admit, I’m a sucker for “we’re insignificant in the vastness of space” type songs, and there’s a few one here. Looking forward to spinning it again later this evening.
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It blew me away! I'll admit, his previous solo stuff usually didn't quite hit the mark for me, but this one? Totally vibing with it. The musical direction, the lyrics, everything just clicked.
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I've been relistening to his solo albums this week preparing for the new one. I'm currently enjoying The Future bites, though I suspect the new one will be completely different. ;D
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I did not receive any update mail, but apparently my order was sent yesterday (Steven Wilson store, order status says "complete"). I assume UK people received it in time
I also got a code to get the digital deluxe version for a couple of euros, I might just do that.
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I signed up for Amazon Music's Ultra HD plan on a trial basis and they have the album there. While it's not blu-ray fidelity it was higher than regular mp3s, the app on the my phone can also play in Dolby Atmos paired with my Galaxy Buds. I think it's tuned to some level type of Atmos codec and have to say it does sound pretty good.
I listened to the album and first thoughts are I agree with nobloodyname's assessment that it's a progression of Future Bites and some hints of Insurgentes. Overall I was very pleased with the first listen. Lots of different styles on here which will make it a very interesting and fun re-listen.
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I did not receive any update mail, but apparently my order was sent yesterday (Steven Wilson store, order status says "complete"). I assume UK people received it in time
I also got a code to get the digital deluxe version for a couple of euros, I might just do that.
I didn't get a notification from the same store, either. But I can confirm that it has been delivered today here in the UK. Unfortunately, I forgot to change my address and it's gone to my ex-partner's place :lol I can listen on Spotify for now. What a total spoon I am.
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I did not receive any update mail, but apparently my order was sent yesterday (Steven Wilson store, order status says "complete"). I assume UK people received it in time
I also got a code to get the digital deluxe version for a couple of euros, I might just do that.
Where did you get the code from? Haven't received any code from Townsend Music.
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I did not receive any update mail, but apparently my order was sent yesterday (Steven Wilson store, order status says "complete"). I assume UK people received it in time
I also got a code to get the digital deluxe version for a couple of euros, I might just do that.
Where did you get the code from? Haven't received any code from Townsend Music.
I think it is a Steven Wilson store thing, they offer a new bundle and gave consumers the option to upgrade to that bundle.
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I did not receive any update mail, but apparently my order was sent yesterday (Steven Wilson store, order status says "complete"). I assume UK people received it in time
I also got a code to get the digital deluxe version for a couple of euros, I might just do that.
Where did you get the code from? Haven't received any code from Townsend Music.
I think it is a Steven Wilson store thing, they offer a new bundle and gave consumers the option to upgrade to that bundle.
Thanks. Kind of fucked up that the ones whose preorders got delayed, get nothing (ordered the deluxe)
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putting it on now!!! :metal
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Pretty mediocre, imo.
I liked the first two songs, but after that it went down hill for me.
Not the biggest fan of Steven solo at all, so...
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here are my thoughts after one listen... i've been a fan of wilson's work forever now, so i was pretty excited to dive into this one.
first off, let me talk about the production. wilson has always been known for his meticulous attention to detail, and it definitely shines through on this album. the sound quality is top-notch, and you can really hear all the layers and textures in the music. it's like he's crafted each song with the utmost care, and it pays off big time. as for the songs themselves, there's a real sense of diversity here. wilson explores a wide range of musical styles and moods throughout the record. one minute you're floating through these ethereal, almost otherworldly soundscapes, and the next, you're hit with some seriously powerful rock riffs. it's a journey, for sure. lyrically, wilson has always been a bit of a poet, and that's no different on "the harmony codex." his lyrics are thought-provoking and often delve into deep emotional territory. i found myself getting lost in the words, trying to unpack their meaning.
about the musicianship: wilson is joined by a stellar group of musicians on this record, and their chemistry is undeniable. the way they play off each other, weaving in and out of intricate arrangements, is a joy to listen to. it's clear that they're all on the same wavelength. one thing that struck me about this album is its length. it's a bit on the long side, clocking in at over an hour. while i love a good epic, i did find myself feeling a tad overwhelmed by the sheer amount of music to digest. it's the kind of album you really need to set aside some time for, but if you're a fan of wilson's work, it's well worth the investment.
THC is another strong addition to steven wilson's discography. it's a testament to his talent as a musician and a producer. while it might require a bit of patience due to its length, the rewards are plentiful. if you're a fan of progressive rock with a touch of the avant-garde, this album is definitely worth checking out.
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Waiting till tonight to listen to the album so I can give it my full attention. Not looking at any reviews in this thread until then.
Here’s an interview with Steven and Niko Tsonev on That Pedal Show. Might be interesting for fellow gearheads like me.
https://youtu.be/kkFCxO1HBp4?si=uI-0-9LVA7DKMUtE
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After one listen, I think it's pretty fantastic. Not sure where it would rank yet, but definitely much better than the last album.
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Gave THC a spin twice this morning and it's largely forgettable to me. I don't think there are any really memorable moments and largely it feels like SW by the numbers, to my ears these neither feels fresh nor compelling. The production is amazing as always though.
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After one listen, I think it's pretty fantastic. Not sure where it would rank yet, but definitely much better than the last album.
It's a very lush album. I'll need multiple listens.
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I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the physical version of the album, but I couldn't resist giving it a listen on Qobuz. I must say, I was truly captivated by many of the songs in the latter half of the album, particularly the closing track, "Staircase." While I don't think it will surpass "Raven" and "HCE" in my personal rankings, after just one listen, I find myself enjoying this album more than "Future Bites" and "To The Bone.
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Just finishing my first listen, damn this is quite good! Really feels like a more cohesive amalgamation of every style he's done than To the Bone. Quite a return to form imo, love the electronics and the very cinematic mood. Many lovely, interesting soundscapes here.
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I'm 3 listens in and really enjoying it. I'm loving all the different styles in here. Can't wait to dive into the bonus stuff once I get my deluxe box set. Michael Akerfeldt sings on Time is running out on the 2nd disc. Also really want to hear that 17 min version of the title track.
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Listened to the album opener but my neighbour was using a grinder outside so those ‘7 seconds of pure silence’ weren’t exactly that.. although I otherwise would’ve enjoyed my mild tinnitus.
The rest of the singles I already know VERY well, been spinning them to death.
I am still wildly excited to hear it, but now I have the kids and tonight I’m having a friend over to listen to the 12LP King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard boxset that just came in.
But when he leaves, finally there’s the time to hear it, tonight, in the dark. I already checked out some of Beautiful Scarecrow while in my car, but the music just screamed “please wait and listen to this at night”.
If the entire album is as good as the singles, this will easily top The Future Bites for me. My issue with that album was that most of it felt pretty superficial, not grand as per usual with SW. I still think it’s a good record and I still return to it, but it just lacked that magic. Everything I’ve heard from The Harmony Codex has that epic feeling again and I can’t wait to hear it tonight.
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I am still wildly excited to hear it, but now I have the kids and tonight I’m having a friend over to listen to the 12LP King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard boxset that just came in.
Damn, I’m jealous! That Red Rocks set looks incredible. You do remember it’s 9 hours right?! :lol
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I am still wildly excited to hear it, but now I have the kids and tonight I’m having a friend over to listen to the 12LP King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard boxset that just came in.
Damn, I’m jealous! That Red Rocks set looks incredible. You do remember it’s 9 hours right?! :lol
Haha oh yeah uhm I guess we’ll just listen to night 1 then!
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I am still wildly excited to hear it, but now I have the kids and tonight I’m having a friend over to listen to the 12LP King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard boxset that just came in.
Damn, I’m jealous! That Red Rocks set looks incredible. You do remember it’s 9 hours right?! :lol
Haha oh yeah uhm I guess we’ll just listen to night 1 then!
I’d be in for the long haul with you :heart
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Fritzinger album review:
Steven Wilson usually makes it true: his promise to not promise anything. Content to be able to challenge his listeners, not having to submit to conventions, limits, or expectations, he plays with whatever his fans are expecting, giving them a smirk, saying “oh, you thought this was going to be apple? Sorry, here’s banana”. And usually, before any release, fans go on saying things like “if this is anything like the last one, he’s lost me”, hoping for an album “similar to XY”, as if any Wilson solo album was anything like the last one or similar to any of this other work.
That’s the exciting aspect about this artist. Listeners love him for that, and they hate him for that. Each new release could easily be a jazz/fusion-, brit-pop-, or noise/drone-album. I choose these weirdly specific genre-combinations, because – as every Wilson fan knows – he indeed has released all those albums. And they usually earn a lot of praise. Remember, “Hand. Cannot. Erase.” was the “The Wall” of the 21st century! Whatever that means. They also earn lots of disapproval, accusations of selling out because of pop influences (“To The Bone”) or selling out even more because of pop influences (“The Future Bites”). However, Wilsonusually manages to pour these influences into a form of his own musical identity. As a result, a Steven Wilsonalbum is always recognizable as such, no matter if it’s a synth-pop-, new-prog/prog-metal-, or ambient/folk-album (once again, these are not made-up combinations).
This pattern of not following different patterns has worked until now. For his newest release, however, Wilsondecided to work without any agenda and create an album that doesn’t belong to any specific genre. Of course, a genreless album is impossible to make, so this undertaking resulted in a varied, colorful record, reaching out to various genres, including many influences, and taking a few steps that are unconventional, even for Steven Wilson’s standards. This can either result in a thrilling journey through the unknown, or just in a loose collection of tracks that are so different from each other that they shouldn’t be on the same album. Let’s see which one “The Harmony Codex” will be.
After the largely self-recorded “The Future Bites”, Wilson decided to rely on the skills of his frequent collaborators and session musicians again. His privilege to be able to use such a large number of talented musicians has always led to stunning contributions. Wilson usually even lets his colleagues off the leash quite a bit, perhaps taking influence from masters such as Frank Zappa or Robert Fripp. Many fans will be delighted to hear that this is the case once again on most tracks of his new album. The opening “Inclination”for instance makes perfect use of the abilities of legendary King Crimson percussionist Pat Mastelotto, who provides an electronically manipulated rhythm fundament and gated tom sounds. Even more interestingly, Steven Wilson seems to give an appreciating nod to Jon Hassell during the opening track, with the layered trumpet sounds of Nils Peter Molvaer that were once typically created by the late great ambient pioneer. “Inclination” features a complete instrumental first half, serving as a dark and suspenseful introduction, and is a far more interesting opening to “The Harmony Codex” than “Unself”/”Self” was to “The Future Bites”.
Surprisingly, large portions of “The Harmony Codex” are instrumental or use voice(s) as “just” another color within the lavish arrangements. A mostly vocal-less song like “Impossible Tightrope” might be exactly what “Raven”-, “Hand”-, or “Grace”-fans have been waiting for, although it still would have been an outsider on any of these albums. Despite all Pink Floyd- and Yes-influences, it still features a quite trip-hoppy rhythm section, provided by jack of all trades Nate Wood and even some 90s Brit-pop influences at times. An eminently (pun intended) new feature in the Wilson-cosmos is the choir featured during the middle section of the song though, which explains what he might have meant by “spiritual” jazz influences. Prominent features of Theo Travis and Adam Holzman go perfectly with the Kamasi Washington-infused gospel choir during this 11-minute journey. Well done, Steven.
Still, fans who heard this cut as a single and expected a full album in this vein might be disappointed by the whole Codex as the fusion-prog track is but one of many colors shown on the rectangular shapes of the album cover. Another ten minutes are spent without a sung word by the far more meditative title track, revealing Wilson’s long-lasting love for 70s infused ambient and electronic music by the likes of Tangerine Dream, the late Klaus Schulze or Nils Frahm, to name a more contemporary example. It takes a lot of self-confidence and trust into his fans to release an ambient track featuring spoken word contributions by his wife Rotem on a “regular” Steven Wilson album, instead of including it on a new Bass Communion release (which by the way is still highly anticipated by the reviewer and ambient fans alike for sure). Still, it works somehow and brings the “Codex” to a halt, giving listeners a moment to breathe, while giving off a sublime feeling, not unlike Pink Floyd managed to do 55 years earlier on “A Saucerful Of Secrets”.
In between experiments and ventures, there are also some tracks on “The Harmony Codex” that might be less of a surprise to fans. This is not to say these songs don’t reach the quality of the aforementioned ones. They are just closer to what you might expect from a Steven Wilson album. “Time Is Running Out” and the introverted “Economies Of Scale” capture the electronic, beat-driven vibe of “The Future Bites”, but don’t aim to get listeners to move their feet to it. Both tracks are essentially Wilson-solo tracks proper, with the exception of a few contributions from Adam Holzman and Niko Tsonev. “What Life Brings” is a more traditional track that wouldn’t have been misplaced on “Stupid Dream” or “Lightbulb Sun”. Or “Division Bell” or “A Momentary Lapse Of Reason”, for that matter. It is safe to say that son-in-law of Richard Wright and touring bassist for the final two Pink Floyd tours Guy Pratt was a perfect choice for this beautifully unfussy piece of psychedelic pop.
“The Harmony Codex” is also home to a few peculiar electronica-artpop gems that only Steven Wilson would be able to create. “Beautiful Scarecrow” and “Actual Brutal Facts” even bring back the unsettling, eerie aura created by “Index” from 2011’s “Grace For Drowning”, with the former building up to a layered electronic construct of sound, completed by Ben Coleman’s weeping violin, until it crashes into a signature drum groove of the much missed Craig Blundell. A secret highlight on the “Codex”. These songs are not about melody or harmonies, but rather about atmosphere, the uneasy feeling they bring across.
Studying this quite complex album for roughly a week like the reviewer did is far from appropriate to lay down an adequate review, which is why what you are reading is rather the momentary impression of the release. It will take a few months to comprehend what the “Codex” is all about, and this includes the thoughts expressed by its lyrics. Dedicated fans will know the unsettling, yet heartbreaking science fiction short story found towards the end of Wilson’s book “Limited Edition Of One”, which serves as the basis for the thoughts shared on “The Harmony Codex”. Everything comes together in the final track “Staircase”, musically as well as lyrically (probably), including modern electronica, convoluted bass lines, a superb rhythm section and a grand yet reserved finale featuring a callback to the ambient soundscapes and spoken words of the title track. Staircases take an important role in the aforementioned short story. However, quite a bit of time will be needed to connect all the dots and find meaning in the words sung and spoken on the album. And quite a bit of work will be needed to fully grasp what is happening during the 64-minute journey that is “The Harmony Codex”.
Until then, here are a few disjointed thoughts in no particular order that popped up in the reviewer’s head while listening and that haven’t been expressed in this review.
It is versatile.
It is dark and unsettling at times.
It sounds incredible. Seriously.
It is more complex, more interesting, and ultimately better than “The Future Bites”.
It is also harder to get into than “Hand. Cannot. Erase.” and “To The Bone”.
It will be interesting to see how these soundscapes are transported onto the stage.
It is more daring and innovative than Porcupine Tree’s comeback album “Closure/Continuation” (of course this wasn’t too hard to achieve).
It barely has any big, catchy choruses.
It doesn’t in any way try to be liked by mainstream audiences.
It cannot be danced to (mostly).
https://lotsofmuzik.com/steven-wilson-the-harmony-codex-album-review/
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Really nice album, I believe it will not surpass the excellent run from Grace to To the Bone, but I think it comes close. My faves are the really great Impossible Tightrope and Staircase, with a lot of good things in the middle... with the exception of THC, which it's not exactly my type of music. But I still think that would be interesting if they placed that song as the last one, kind to just relax after hearing the proper album (I've heard the album this way and it really works!). Where it is, sure disrupts the excellent flow of the album IMO.
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https://www.discogs.com/release/28425214-Steven-Wilson-The-Harmony-Codex
THAT chapman stick by Nick Beggs on Staircase :hefdaddy
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I think it's a solid enough album. That being said, to me, it felt like an album that was still felt like it was starting just as it was ending. Like it felt like there's a yearning for more after I finished listening to it. I don't know how to explain it. Probably will give it another listen to properly assess it.
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Listening now and enjoying it so far.
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I felt like if you took the musical foundation of TTB and TFB and made it more progressive...you'd have this. With that said, my SW tastes have always gravitated towards Raven and HCE (so, a more classic prog-rock feel, I guess you could say). On a first listen I feel there's a lot of "filler," especially towards the end of the album, but I hope repeat listens allow me to appreciate it more.
It's okay.
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Ok, second listen down. I enjoy this quite a lot, especially the more spacey/ethereal sounds in the back half of the album. I could take or leave the first three songs, and they are the weakest part of the album for me. You could do away with two of them and have Impossible Tightrope as the second track, and I’d be fine with that. Tightrope is the token proggy song but I think it’s a pretty good one. From there on out the record takes me into outer space.
Highlights so far are 100% Impossible Tightrope, The Harmony Codex, Time is Running Out and Staircase. These songs are really good and I prefer the overall vibe of the record over the last. I really, really liked 12 Things I Forgot on the last record, but could kinda take or leave most of the rest of it.
I’ll give this another spin over the weekend but early impressions are positive and it could crack my top 20.
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Is this not out yet in the US? Amazon doesn't have it until October except on import, Laser CD doesn't have it listed.
Edit: remembered there was a production delay on this one. Still not really listed for sale on Amazon (you have to click through to a bunch of third party sellers). Kind of weird.
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Is this not out yet in the US? Amazon doesn't have it until October except on import, Laser CD doesn't have it listed.
Not quite sure what the arrangement is this time, I've always bought it from either Best Buy / LaserCd / Amazon. This time I ordered through Burning Shed and did notice how it was not listed at many retailers. I think only Burning Shed and SW's official store had it.
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Is this not out yet in the US? Amazon doesn't have it until October except on import, Laser CD doesn't have it listed.
Edit: remembered there was a production delay on this one. Still not really listed for sale on Amazon (you have to click through to a bunch of third party sellers). Kind of weird.
None of the local record stores in my area have it.
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i dug it :tup
nothing immediately blowing me away but it feels like a solid mesh of SW's best instincts in terms of both prog and electronic stuff, i think the title track could serve to be a bit shorter and some of the shorter tunes felt kinda There but it's prob the most i've liked a SW project overall since... at least to the bone if not HCE
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OK finally time to dive in.
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Is this not out yet in the US? Amazon doesn't have it until October except on import, Laser CD doesn't have it listed.
Edit: remembered there was a production delay on this one. Still not really listed for sale on Amazon (you have to click through to a bunch of third party sellers). Kind of weird.
None of the local record stores in my area have it.
there were dozens of copies at my local record store in denver,,, weird!
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I don’t really have any local shops here anyway. Maybe Barnes & Nobles has it but I doubt it.
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Wonderful, but very dense album. Really enjoyed it. Gonna need a few more listens to digest it.
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Bought the digital deluxe version (for 4 UK pounds due to a bundle sale). Good first impression! It is very much focused on electronic sounds/soundscapes, but in a different way than The Future Bites.
I will say that I did end up really enjoying The Future Bites over the years though, I ended up listening to it frequently. I was initially not that impressed with it.
Also listened to Time is Running Out Mikael Akerfelt version, always love to hear Mikael sing! His version his quite different (mainly driven by vocals and piano)
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Finally listening to it for the first time since the preview show earlier this week. Just finishing Economies of Scale. Stand by what I said a few days ago: this is a very grown up album so far. I like it.
Edit: finished now. Yeah. This is a really, really good album.
Did I dream you? Or are you dreaming me now?
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Bought the digital deluxe version (for 4 UK pounds due to a bundle sale). Good first impression! It is very much focused on electronic sounds/soundscapes, but in a different way than The Future Bites.
I will say that I did end up really enjoying The Future Bites over the years though, I ended up listening to it frequently. I was initially not that impressed with it.
Also listened to Time is Running Out Mikael Akerfelt version, always love to hear Mikael sing! His version his quite different (mainly driven by vocals and piano)
Is that link only for customers of the SW Store? I don't think I'm getting my boxset for another couple of weeks from Burning Shed. I don't mind buying the digital version of boxset for a few bucks but I'm guessing that option isn't there for everyone.
Is this (https://www.discogs.com/release/28444609-Steven-Wilson-The-Harmony-Codex)the deluxe edition that was offered?
According to the discog page, it's just the two tracks from the deluxe edition and 6 other tracks of audio from the short story being read by SW himself.
Found it, it's on the Global store and not the US store
Official Steven Wilson Store - Steven Wilson - The Harmony Codex Deluxe Digital (stevenwilsonhq.com) (https://store.stevenwilsonhq.com/product/122975)
I think I'll wait for the boxset. 7$ for the album plus a few bonus tracks isn't a bad deal but I'm essentially paying for the spoken word which I don't think I'm going to really listen to much.
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So I’ve been listening to The Harmony Codex and this album sounds amazing on good headphones. Also on my hi-fi set, but headphones specifically.
I’ve been hearing people rave about the album in Atmos and I believe them, but in stereo it already sounds totally immersive.
I have a hard time pointing to favourite tracks since I’m especially familiar with the pre-release singles. No song has hit me harder than Rock Bottom this year, that’s for sure. Fantastic ballad. Actual Brutal Facts is totally badass and Staircase really speaks to me on an emotional level. Also massive props to the guitar solos on this album, most notably by Niko Tsonev. They’re not as exuberant as Guthrie’s leads but I really dig his note choices and his low-gain super expressive sound.
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Yeah, it sounds awesome just on my standard iPhone ear buds.
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It's been on near constant rotation since Friday for me. I didn't listen to any of the singles prior to release, because I really wanted to be spoiler free and listen to it as an album experience. This album is so much better than The Future Bites, and is a wonderful contrast from Closure/Continuation. I'm looking forward to doing a headphone listen as well, but man, this album is really beautiful.
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https://www.discogs.com/release/28425214-Steven-Wilson-The-Harmony-Codex
THAT chapman stick by Nick Beggs on Staircase :hefdaddy
Yeah it sounds sick! :metal
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Bought the digital deluxe version (for 4 UK pounds due to a bundle sale). Good first impression! It is very much focused on electronic sounds/soundscapes, but in a different way than The Future Bites.
I will say that I did end up really enjoying The Future Bites over the years though, I ended up listening to it frequently. I was initially not that impressed with it.
Also listened to Time is Running Out Mikael Akerfelt version, always love to hear Mikael sing! His version his quite different (mainly driven by vocals and piano)
Agreed. The Future Bites was more electronic sounds to create pop oriented songs, and this sounds like he's using the electronic sounds to create more of a prog record.
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Giving this a proper dedicated listen with my decent headphones :tup
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Bought the digital deluxe version (for 4 UK pounds due to a bundle sale). Good first impression! It is very much focused on electronic sounds/soundscapes, but in a different way than The Future Bites.
I will say that I did end up really enjoying The Future Bites over the years though, I ended up listening to it frequently. I was initially not that impressed with it.
Also listened to Time is Running Out Mikael Akerfelt version, always love to hear Mikael sing! His version his quite different (mainly driven by vocals and piano)
Agreed. The Future Bites was more electronic sounds to create pop oriented songs, and this sounds like he's using the electronic sounds to create more of a prog record.
Yep, that’s a good way to put it
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What an album. Incredible. Multiple listens reveal it all. The Harmony Codex; The Steven Wilson Codex. His entire musical world is in there and it flows incredibly well in spite of the stylistic diversity. Few songs have hit me harder than Rock Bottom and Staircase this year. Literally tearing up. What bigger compliment can one give to music. This album is powerful as hell.
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Ikr it's an excellent record, I can't believe it, but after so long, seems Steven has released something worth competing for AOTY.
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Posta, es alto disco, no puedo creerlo pero luego de tanto tiempo, creo que el Esteban ha sacado un disco digno de competir por lo mejor del año.
It is a good disk yeah, not sure I would say is album of the year though.
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I have listened to very few albums released this year so far, so the competition is not tough for me ;D
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I love the second half drum layering of Beautiful Scarecrow.
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A few more listens into this album, and I’m finding it’s just OK. And that’s just OK with me.
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Staircase for me is the standout part of this.
Impossible Tightrope, What Life Brings, Economy of Scale, Inclination, and Time is Running Out I like all for the most part.
TIRO the vocal line sounds an awful lot like the Self-Titled Blackfield song at points.
The title track, Actual Brutal Facts and Beautiful Scarecrow I like moments on, but I seem to have more issues with, than things I like.
of course many reviews keep popping up on YouTube and other sites..I likely will include one on mine as well soon.
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The title-track has a cool mood, but I don’t think it has quite enough going on to justify its (almost) 10 minute runtime…
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I wonder if they're having stock issues, everything at Burning Shed says out of stock, most of the items in the SW store say sold out. Either this is selling incredibly well or they haven't had much inventory.
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after the future bites only sold 1 copy they probably didn't get a lot of stock ready for this one
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https://guitar.com/news/music-news/steven-wilson-guitar-players-and-tone/
Steven Wilson: “I’m constantly disappointed by extraordinary guitar players that have got no concept of how to change their tone”
-Marc.
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I wonder if they're having stock issues, everything at Burning Shed says out of stock, most of the items in the SW store say sold out. Either this is selling incredibly well or they haven't had much inventory.
Weren't some editions in those stores exclusive and limited? The regular editions are available everywhere over here.
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https://guitar.com/news/music-news/steven-wilson-guitar-players-and-tone/
Steven Wilson: “I’m constantly disappointed by extraordinary guitar players that have got no concept of how to change their tone”
-Marc.
Wonder who he's passive aggressively taking a jab at this time
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https://guitar.com/news/music-news/steven-wilson-guitar-players-and-tone/
Steven Wilson: “I’m constantly disappointed by extraordinary guitar players that have got no concept of how to change their tone”
-Marc.
Wonder who he's passive aggressively taking a jab at this time
probably john petrucci :metal
mans is just jealous tho!
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https://guitar.com/news/music-news/steven-wilson-guitar-players-and-tone/
Steven Wilson: “I’m constantly disappointed by extraordinary guitar players that have got no concept of how to change their tone”
-Marc.
Wonder who he's passive aggressively taking a jab at this time
Rothery?
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https://guitar.com/news/music-news/steven-wilson-guitar-players-and-tone/
Steven Wilson: “I’m constantly disappointed by extraordinary guitar players that have got no concept of how to change their tone”
-Marc.
Wonder who he's passive aggressively taking a jab at this time
Honestly, it's anyone not named Steven Wilson.
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https://guitar.com/news/music-news/steven-wilson-guitar-players-and-tone/
Steven Wilson: “I’m constantly disappointed by extraordinary guitar players that have got no concept of how to change their tone”
-Marc.
Wonder who he's passive aggressively taking a jab at this time
Honestly, it's anyone not named Steven Wilson.
Anyone who’s a better guitar player than he is.
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it's funny because SW has a very obvious/noticeable guitar tone and has for years now :lol
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He's not an 'extraordinary' guitar player though so it doesn't apply to him...
I found the new album kinda dull if I'm being honest. He knocked it out of the park with his first four solo albums and I've struggled to have much enthusiasm for anything he's done since.
Last track was pretty good though.
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Finally got my shipping notice from Burning Shed. Album's been on repeat since release week. Still don't have a favorite, Impossible Tightrope has some really fun passages, I like the Rush parts and the keys played by Adam which Steven then added a vocal overlay based on that melody near the end of the track.
So many great moments, also love the ending of Economies of Scale.
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i really liked the album when i listened to it but i haven't had a strong urge to spin it much in the week it's come out. should change that soon
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Not sure where I stand with The Harmony Codex after about a week with it now. What I DO know is it's much better than The Future Bites - but it doesn't touch the greatness of Raven and HCE. Where it slots in with Insurgentes, Grace for Drowning and To The Bone, is still to be determined.
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It’s a very middle tier album for me. I’d rank his solo albums:
1. Hand. Cannot. Erase.
2. The Raven That Refused to Sing
3. Grace for Drowning
4. The Harmony Codex
5. To the Bone
6. Insurgentes
7. The Future Bites
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my SW ranking
Insurgentes
The Raven That Refused To Sing
To The Bone
The Harmony Codex
Grace For Drowning
Hand Cannot Erase
THE FUTURE BITES
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New album's not really clicking with me, at least not yet. It's an incredibly slow and dreary album, which isn't exactly new territory for Steven Wilson's music, but there's usually a lot of beauty to be found in the atmosphere which I'm not really finding here.
Hand. Cannot. Erase.
To The Bone
Grace For Drowning
The Raven That Refused To Sing
Insurgentes
The Harmony Codex
The Future Bites
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Hand. Cannot. Erase.
The Harmony Codex
To the Bone
The Future Bites
The Raven That Refused to Sing
Grace for Drowning
Insurgentes
There you go. That's The Official Order. Accept no substitutes.
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For me:
Raven
HCE
To The Bone
The Harmony Codex
Insurgentes
Grace For Drowning
The Future Bites
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Hand. Cannot. Erase.
The Raven That Refused to Sing
Grace For Drowning
To The Bone
Insurgentes
The Harmony Codex
The Future Bites
I enjoy all of them and listen to them plenty, so Harmony Codex ranking "low" doesn't really say anything.
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unsure if this was shared a few weeks ago, but if not, here's pretty good 2 hour video podcast with Steven, where he talks a little about the new record, but also just his career and the music industry now including AI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khY7ICfIxmw
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Very tough to rank them, but I'll try:
Grace for Drowning
The Harmony Codex
Insurgentes
H.C.E
Raven
To the Bone
The Future Bites
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It's been 7 days but this is truly how I feel right now. Recency bias definitely. We'll see what happens, but that THC is one of his best is quite clear for me.
The Harmony Codex
Insurgentes
Hand. Cannot. Erase.
To The Bone
The Raven That Refused To Sing
Grace For Drowning
The Future Bites
For me, he's released his 'worst' and 'best' record in succession.
I like them all very much by the way. The Future Bites is the only album with songs I dislike (Personal Shopper, Follower).
Hand. Cannot. Erase. has the highest highs of any album though.
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Half a dozen listens in and I definitely like it better than TFB. It successfully brings some of that style into a more prog rock setting and the result is an album that I enjoy, but nowhere near as much as my favorites from SW.
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just finished another listen. i think my favorites are Inclination, What Life Brings, Impossible Tightrope, The Harmony Codex, and Staircase.
the biggest issue with the album for me is the songs between the title track and the last song are really weak. additionally, i'm not crazy about economy of scale and rock bottom and beautiful scarecrow are probably the lowest point of the album for me
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It’s funny to see so many people either loving Rock Bottom a lot, or having it down at the bottom of their ranking.
For me it’s one of the most emotionally powerful songs, even more so than Pariah. The people I play it to (ppl who love music but not necessarily SW) seem mostly quite moved by this song. I actually think it has major crossover mainstream appeal but in a good way.
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For me it's his best since Raven but I wouldn't put it over any of his first 3. So a very solid entry in the middle of his solo discography.
The first half or so is really strong but then Ninet enters and Rock Bottom ironically lives up to its name of being the weakest song on here. Just don't get his obsession with her, she was a fine contribution on Routine but has since long outstayed her welcome for me at least. Not a very interesting voice and it doesn't really gel with SW's voice either IMO. I'm sure she sounds better singing her own music. Second half does have some highlights, for me the title track is sublime and Staircase is a wonderful closer.
Overall I would say it's like a solid 8/10.
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It’s funny to see so many people either loving Rock Bottom a lot, or having it down at the bottom of their ranking.
For me it’s one of the most emotionally powerful songs, even more so than Pariah. The people I play it to (ppl who love music but not necessarily SW) seem mostly quite moved by this song. I actually think it has major crossover mainstream appeal but in a good way.
Agreed. Incredible performance by Ninet! This whole album is growing more and more on me. Will be updating my SW album ranking soon.
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I don't understand how Rock Bottom is so divisive, it's a wonderful song imo. I love the new album, and I think the weakest one might be Time is Running Out tbh. It's a fine track surely but the rest of the album is just on another level.
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Go my Deluxe edition today, Got it in 4 days. Not bad at all from Norwich MC to Florida in that time. I'd say that was quite fast actually.
Going to spin the 2nd disc first before diving into the bluray.
(https://imgur.com/BInM44e.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/xiystJ3.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/ozmLCAb.jpg)
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I don't understand how Rock Bottom is so divisive, it's a wonderful song imo. I love the new album, and I think the weakest one might be Time is Running Out tbh. It's a fine track surely but the rest of the album is just on another level.
The weakest song for me by far is Economies of Scale.
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Dammit, wrong thread! I don't even know how I got in this thread. I had to look up my own posts just to find my post. :lol
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I've got a lot of listening in, and I'm even starting to scratch out some writeups on songs I'm pretty sure about.
Pretty comfortable with my rankings as well. It pained me to give some of these songs 7's, and even a couple of 6's. But this round is pretty strong, and The Ranker is being a bitch.
Should be ready to post Sister Song Comparisons tomorrow afternoon, most likely after Ariich goes to bed. ;D
Never took you for a Steven Wilson fan, but interesting development.
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See sending Steven Wilson to TAC's roulettes helps him check out the rest of discography and rank them accordingly.
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:lol
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Dear God
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Going to spin the 2nd disc first before diving into the bluray.
The bonus disc 'Harmonic Distortion' was a fun listen. I really liked the alternate version of Impossible Tightrope, the bass riff and violin are great, I think it would've worked in the released version too, I may splice it together someday if I'm feeling adventurous. The Akerfeldt version of Time is Running Out is pretty good too, his vocals give the song a different lighter tone to it. The various Codex themes are just mellow soundscapes apart from #8 which is a piano piece based on the tune for Time is Running Out. It serves as a nice intro to the song.
The long take of the title track doesn't add much, it's mostly atmosphere and just chill which is nice to listen to if you're in the mood. The remixes by different artists are interesting, I need to listen to them a few more times to get familiar.
I think from all the bonus discs, this might be one of the better ones which isn't just demos like they recently have been.
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BTW, I enjoyed SW's interview on The Prog Report.
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I think from all the bonus discs, this might be one of the better ones which isn't just demos like they recently have been.
Although I think some of those demos have been brilliant! Those for Hand. Cannot. Erase. were great. Almost different songs in many places.
This reminds me I haven't listened to the bonus content for The Harmony Codex. Perhaps I'll fix that today. Listening to the Atmos mix for the first time on Saturday night with my new partner, looking forward to that. I think it's the first time she'll have heard the album since we went to the pre-release event at EartH.
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I'm still somewhat on the fence about the record, though it certainly isn't bad. I also wouldn't say it's an improvement over The Future bites, as there was nothing wrong with that album. This one reminds me of Insurgentes and Grace for drowning in terms of its diversity, but the jammy and atmospheric bits give off some Up the downstair vibe.
What life brings and Time is running out are familiar sounding, they certainly scratch the itch, though I also enjoy Inclination. What's missing here, however, is the emotional impact that songs like Routine, Luminol and others had for me. Now, I don't know if that has to do with me or with the music itself. Probably the former.
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BTW, I enjoyed SW's interview on The Prog Report.
I just saw this pop up on my feed, I'm going to give it a watch tonight
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Got my copy from Amazon finally. Pleasantly surprised to see it come in a standard plastic jewel case. Don’t get many new releases in those.
Still enjoying the album quite a bit.
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BTW, I enjoyed SW's interview on The Prog Report.
I just saw this pop up on my feed, I'm going to give it a watch tonight
link?
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https://youtu.be/CuT4X_e65z8?si=9qHeTSse13HJ6xTj
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thank you!
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don't show this interview to TAC, one of SW's loved ones interrupts him during the interview :lol
edit: and now a dog on camera, lol
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don't show this interview to TAC, one of SW's loved ones interrupts him during the interview :lol
edit: and now a dog on camera, lol
:lol
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Had to bump this to say that The Harmony Codex is freaking great. It feels like a blend of various styles he has done over the years, all in one big stew. Love it.
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Had to bump this to say that The Harmony Codex is freaking great. It feels like a blend of various styles he has done over the years, all in one big stew. Love it.
Been bumped from my car CD player by other new releases, but it was in there for a while and is easily my favorite solo thing he’s done. Feels like he finally managed to make an album that captures the spirit of a Peter Gabriel or Talk Talk album but doesn’t sound like a stripped down Porcupine Tree album. Economies of Scale, Impossible Tightrope, Time is Running Out, and Staircase are all really great tracks.
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Middle of the road for me, some elements of early Porcupine Tree, some good songs/passages but overall far from his best imo.
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Middle of the road for me, some elements of early Porcupine Tree, some good songs/passages but overall far from his best imo.
Probably the same for me. I've already not listened to it for a few weeks since other new albums have come out, but I really enjoyed it when I did listen to it. It's definitely the best of his past three solo albums, but nothing will top TRTRTS and HCE for me - those are my eternal top two SW solo albums for me. I'd say maybe GFD might be third, but I haven't really listened to it a lot since it came out, as much as I love double albums. I'd say THC is around the same kind of ranking that Insurgentes gets from me, middle of the pack, not awful, but not his complete best, but THC definitely has room to grow for me. I'll definitely revisit it when I'm back in the mood for SW solo music, which is more than I can say for TFB and TTB (though I enjoy TTB a lot more than TFB).
-Marc.
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Yeah it’s a good album, but I’ve had to desire to listen to it for the past month.
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I haven't revisited it in a little while now but I would definitely put it above HCE, TTB and TFB. Not a perfect album and not up there in my top10-15 albums of the year, but still very enjoyable with some very high highs for me.
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It is way too soon for me to consider how it compares to his other solo albums, but I just know I am loving it so far.
Impossible Tightrope is a BEAST of a song, for one.
Economies of Scale seemed just pretty good when it was dropped (that was the only pre-release song I listened to, and did so just once), but sounds really within the flow of the record.
The 3-song run that closes the record is terrific.
Beautiful Scarecrow is the one I am still unsure of how much I like it.
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It is way too soon for me to consider how it compares to his other solo albums, but I just know I am loving it so far.
Impossible Tightrope is a BEAST of a song, for one.
Economies of Scale seemed just pretty good when it was dropped (that was the only pre-release song I listened to, and did so just once), but sounds really within the flow of the record.
The 3-song run that closes the record is terrific.
Beautiful Scarecrow is the one I am still unsure of how much I like it.
Hang in there Kev with Beautiful Scarecrow. Wasn't sure about it at first myself, but it's "clicked" with me now and I love it.
I agree with all your other points. I'm going to let it marinate a little longer before I release my updated SW solo album rankings - but I can say it's been slowly moving up for me. A great return to form as far as I'm concerned!
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Hang in there Kev with Beautiful Scarecrow. Wasn't sure about it at first myself, but it's "clicked" with me now and I love it.
I agree with all your other points. I'm going to let it marinate a little longer before I release my updated SW solo album rankings - but I can say it's been slowly moving up for me. A great return to form as far as I'm concerned!
:tup :tup
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So is there a concept to this album? I can’t really devise any from the lyrics, but I thought I read that it was based on a short story SW wrote for his biography about two people trying to escape from a building where there had been a terrorist attack, and they end up climbing upwards to escape (which explains the cover art). Other than the title track and maybe the last song though, I don’t really get a sense of that story being told.
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Finally got around to listening to The Harmony Codex. First impressions are very positive. I really like the fusion of electronic and rock, and the piano parts sound beautiful despite rarely showing up throughout the album. The best parts are what Steven always does best, the vocal harmonies. The standout tracks from my first listen are Impossible Tightrope, The Harmony Codex, and Staircase. I love instrumental sections in music, so I suppose it's only natural these three impressed me the most. I think with more listens, this will probably end up as my third-favorite Steven Wilson solo album, behind The Raven That Refused To Sing and Hand. Cannot. Erase.
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So is there a concept to this album? I can’t really devise any from the lyrics, but I thought I read that it was based on a short story SW wrote for his biography about two people trying to escape from a building where there had been a terrorist attack, and they end up climbing upwards to escape (which explains the cover art). Other than the title track and maybe the last song though, I don’t really get a sense of that story being told.
Both the story and the album have the same name, so there should be a connection. But I didn't understand the ending of his story and I really don't know what the album is about.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQHqxPvzOI8
He's finally done a Christmas song! :biggrin:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQHqxPvzOI8
He's finally done a Christmas song! :biggrin:
This is awesome :lol
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That surprisingly fit.
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I like it. And apparently the lyrics are ChatGPT, with a very Wilson-explaination in the description of the vid.
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I like it. And apparently the lyrics are ChatGPT, with a very Wilson-explaination in the description of the vid.
Yeah, the beginning of the video gives lyrics credit to ChatGPT lol
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Just checked it out and gotta say, I'm pleasantly surprised – the lyrics are way better than I expected when I read that! I didn't know ChatGPT could contribute to music like this already, it's both cool and scary.
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Just checked it out and gotta say, I'm pleasantly surprised – the lyrics are way better than I expected when I read that! I didn't know ChatGPT could contribute to music like this already, it's both cool and scary.
I use chatGPT as a general info assistant and it can be scary, It runs circles around google (translating, making templates, spelling checks, information about all kids of stuff). And that is the non-pro free version based on pre-2022 training not connected to the internet.
In order to adapt, I actually recommend people keeping a tab open with GPT and using it in your general workflow. We are already at a point where that is a big advantage. But don't feed it anything personal or confidential (in my field I can't use it for much outside general questions).
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i did not like the SW chat gpt song
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I enjoyed the SW chat GPT song (which I believe only the lyrics were written by the chat GPT, and let's face it no one listens to SW for the lyrics).
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even the vocals are AI
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It is an interesting evolution for SW in the last 15 years to go from ipod-destroying, "streaming is the death of music", "i chose to live alone and i will die alone" rebel to fully embracing the digital medium, even using AI to make songs, married stepdad with 2 kids. Like you go back to the Insurgentes documentary days of him pouting at Disneyland and the doom and gloom vibe of him and his music, and now every video it's like he downed a jar of happy pills and he's farting out rainbows. Good for him though, I also think there's a connection between the journey/evolution he's had in the last 10 years with the evolution of his music. You go from old retro prog with Raven to a more contemporary HCE, to a bit of an 80s vibe in TTB, you go full electronic digital 21st century with TFB and then you land somewhere with a very interesting album in THC. In between that you also get the PT reunion.
Even though his albums haven't quite hit it out of the park for me in a while (I think HCE is his best since Raven though) I do think he is in an interesting place. It's always intriguing to hear a new SW album and see where he goes.
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even the vocals are AI
SW’s Facebook post only says the lyrics were written by AI.
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https://www.loudersound.com/news/steven-wilson-releases-christmas-song-after-friend-challenges-him-that-he-cant?fbclid=IwAR3DCXuDSJewqQhaygvFdtSXfwePlwWdhipM0JZ2Emluhu2irclDMJJpe14
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Anyone check out the Q&A in The Album Years Podcast that Steven does with Tim Bowness?..they recently did the 1st 2 parts of 1977, but decided to do some Q&A for X-Mas.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/7yq7tecsChOxk0OgihsLOk
Steven chimed in on Jellyfish and the likes of Boston, Journey, Styx, Van Halen, Toto.
aboit 40 minutes in, it's interesting to hear Tim's take on Jellyfish. I think he said "Mark Eitzel" he'd rather listen to, although I have no idea who that is.
And Steven has never heard any song by Jellyfish which is weird considering how big an XTC fan he is.
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I started on the Christmas episode but haven’t gotten far yet. I get the sense that SW doesn’t listen to much American music. He even mentioned on one of the recent 1977 episodes that he has more of a bias towards English music. Doesn’t surprise me if he never came across Jelly Fish.
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Did anyone buy the record store day release Harmonic Divergence? I think it has been pressed quite a bit, as many stores had a good chunk of copies here. So it is reasonable to get (unlike the PT vinyl of last year with those In Absentia bonus tracks).
This one: https://stevenwilsonhq.com/harmonic-divergence-record-store-day-exclusive/ (https://stevenwilsonhq.com/harmonic-divergence-record-store-day-exclusive/)
Tracks:
1. Time is Running Out (Ewan Pearson Remix) (9.20)
2. The Harmony Codex (Kollar/Henriksen Remix) (5.10)
3. Codex Theme #10 (0.57)
4. Actual Brutal Facts (Craig Blundell Remix) (5.09)
SIDE B: (21.17)
5. Economies of Scale (Manic Street Preachers Remix) (4.03)
6. Codex Theme #4 (1.37)
7. Rock Bottom (Adam Holzman Remix) (5.01)
8. The Harmony Codex (Mogwai Remix) (9.51)
9. Codex Theme #13 (0.47)
I got a copy but haven't had the chance to listen yet.
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I'm curious about the remixes. I think only one track from here is on the deluxe boxset, track 5. I would really like to hear these, though I'm not going to get the vinyl, will have to find some rip in the wild if it even exists.
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I'm curious about the remixes. I think only one track from here is on the deluxe boxset, track 5. I would really like to hear these, though I'm not going to get the vinyl, will have to find some rip in the wild if it even exists.
I am sure some fan will rip it and put it somewhere. But hopefully a streaming version as well in the future.
I do think releases like this are cool. And in the realm of RSD releases, the pricing wasn't too bad, with a good amount of copies out there (still expensive though).
I actually really liked several remixes of The Future Bites, so hopefully these are good.