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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Kotowboy on December 22, 2020, 09:54:13 AM

Title: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on December 22, 2020, 09:54:13 AM
Not far off two years since this album was released...


• How did you feel about it two years ago ?

• How do you feel about it now ?


I liked it a lot and still play it every once in a while. I'm not tired of it yet because I haven't over played it. Much like The Astonishing.

I tend to listen to new albums on repeat for like a week and then very sporadically after that so they still seem "new".

I think it's easily the best Mangini era album and the closest to the "classic" ( Scenes - Octavarium ) Era since Octavarium.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 22, 2020, 10:09:19 AM




I tend to listen to new albums on repeat for like a week and then very sporadically after that...


Same here although this one got constant play. I don't pull it out much anymore, mainly because I'm A) not listening to as much music lately and B) I've been compulsively buying a bunch of other music so that usually gets first preference.

Simply put, DoT is one of my three favorite DT albums. I love absolutely everything about it. I love that James has more lyrical contributions. I love how it sounds. I love the subject matter of the songs. I love that Mangini contributed. I love that they ate a lot of BBQ while recording it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: MirrorMask on December 22, 2020, 10:31:22 AM
The weirdest album for me.

I agree with everything they've done. Writing it together and bonding over it. More band effort after The Astonishing. More room (137) for Mangini. More lyricists. Heavier stuff but no useless wanking. They basically did the album I would have ordered them to do if it was up to me, and yet as much as I enjoy all the songs, the album had no staying power at all for me. It came and it went and it fell very quickly off my rotation, and probably is the DT album that survived the least in my active playing since I'm a fan. I even enjoyed the songs live, but once again I didn't come back to it after the live show.

It's like when you tell a friend how you like girls, both physically and personality wise, they let you meet a friend that is exactly how you described your dream girl and yet.... yeah, she's pretty, but.... no, the spark isn't there. Weirdest feeling ever. The next album will probably help to put d/t more in perspective for me.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on December 22, 2020, 11:05:45 AM
FANTASTIC analogy.   
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on December 22, 2020, 11:19:52 AM
I think this album will age well and stand the test of time. I keep it in rotation just enough to where it sounds fresh everytime I come back to it.  It's a very well written and brilliant album I must say!  I love the production, sounds organic yet polished at the same time. 
d/t also has some heavy weight contender songs that stand out in the entire Dream Theater catalog.   Barstool Warrior, Fall Into The Light, Signal to Noise, At Wits End,  Pale Blue Dot,   
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 22, 2020, 11:50:37 AM
The weirdest album for me.

I agree with everything they've done. Writing it together and bonding over it. More band effort after The Astonishing. More room (137) for Mangini. More lyricists. Heavier stuff but no useless wanking. They basically did the album I would have ordered them to do if it was up to me, and yet as much as I enjoy all the songs, the album had no staying power at all for me. It came and it went and it fell very quickly off my rotation, and probably is the DT album that survived the least in my active playing since I'm a fan. I even enjoyed the songs live, but once again I didn't come back to it after the live show.

It's like when you tell a friend how you like girls, both physically and personality wise, they let you meet a friend that is exactly how you described your dream girl and yet.... yeah, she's pretty, but.... no, the spark isn't there. Weirdest feeling ever. The next album will probably help to put d/t more in perspective for me.

There are a lot of people on this very forum and people I've met in real life that just aren't into the band or this music anymore. I'm not saying that you're one of them but tastes change as people grow older. Even I struggle with that a bit with some bands. Sadly, a lot of those people don't realize they're the problem and not the band.

Again, not directed at you. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on December 22, 2020, 12:50:38 PM
To me, DOT is what the album Dream Theater should've been (excluding Illumination Theory, which is amazing as it is). It sounds amazing, it's very concise and basically explores everything DT is all about very successfully.

Not my favorite album of the MM era, for sure, as that title belongs to The Astonishing (yeah, I know, spare me the hate) but it's definitely up there with ADOTE every now and then. Barstool Warrior, At Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot feel like timeless classics to me, and I hope to keep seeing them appear in future setlists.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hunnus2000 on December 22, 2020, 01:01:28 PM
To me, DOT is what the album Dream Theater should've been (excluding Illumination Theory, which is amazing as it is). It sounds amazing, it's very concise and basically explores everything DT is all about very successfully.

Not my favorite album of the MM era, for sure, as that title belongs to The Astonishing (yeah, I know, spare me the hate) but it's definitely up there with ADOTE every now and then. Barstool Warrior, At Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot feel like timeless classics to me, and I hope to keep seeing them appear in future setlists.

Nope - gonna hate on you anyway. Hate, hate hate!  >:(
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 22, 2020, 01:33:44 PM
I mean, it's pretty good. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on December 22, 2020, 01:55:06 PM
It doesn't seem just under 2 years old to me.

For whatever reason it seems like it came out maybe 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on December 22, 2020, 02:03:58 PM
It's one of the two best Mangini-era releases.  I rank the Mangini albums like this:


01. - A Dramatic Turn of Events - to me this was about as close to a perfect Dream Theater album as you can get.  I think it's one of the best albums of their entire career and I put it right up there with Images and Words and Six Degrees.


02. - Distance Over Time - sort of a return to form after The Astonishing.  It's decent, but kind of forgettable.  And I don't feel very compelled to replay it.  When ADTOE came out it stayed in my CD player in my car for at least 3 or 4 months solid.  After about 5 or 6 listens to this one I kind of lost interest in it.


03 - Dream Theater - totally phoned-in sounding.  The songwriting and production here are not Dream Theater's finest moment.  The so-called "epic" with the utterly inexplicable and totally out of place classical movie soundtrack section sounds like a warm-up jam session for a band about to play a gig.  There are a couple of really good tracks sprinkled across this platter of mediocrity.  This, to me, sounded like an obligation album, like they HAD TO do it, not like they WANTED TO do it. 


04 - The Astonishing - I view this more as a "John Petrucci featuring Dream Theater" album than as a "Dream Theater" album.  I get it.  This was Petrucci's white whale.  An album of this kind has been part of Petrucci's DNA since back in the days of Systematic Chaos when he expressed interest in many interviews in writing more "Science Fiction / Fantasy" style material. So, I was kind of shocked at first when Dream Theater announced they were making a rock-opera and it would be a double album.  But once the album came out and I had a chance to listen and check out the lyrics, well, it's just not what I listen to Dream Theater for. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on December 22, 2020, 02:21:26 PM



04 - The Astonishing - I view this more as a "John Petrucci featuring Dream Theater" album than as a "Dream Theater" album.  I get it.  This was Petrucci's white whale.  An album of this kind has been part of Petrucci's DNA since back in the days of Systematic Chaos when he expressed interest in many interviews in writing more "Science Fiction / Fantasy" style material. So, I was kind of shocked at first when Dream Theater announced they were making a rock-opera and it would be a double album.  But once the album came out and I had a chance to listen and check out the lyrics, well, it's just not what I listen to Dream Theater for.
It's interesting that DT fans have such different tastes within the bands catalog. I personally love TA and think it is a top tier DT album!  I would rather have a live bluray from that tour than the Distant Memories release.  I'm not bashing Distant Memories though, as it is a beautiful presentation..
TA was just so unique and special with Labrie's finest moments.   :coolio
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on December 22, 2020, 02:30:15 PM
Has it already been 2 years? Jesus..

I listened to it quite a bit when it was first released, and maybe a few times here and there later in the year, but I don't think I've played it a single time in its entirety during this whole year. This happens often for me when listening to new music constantly, with only the best and most notable getting added to more regular rotation.

I don't think anything in particular is terribly wrong with D/T (besides R137 of course). It has some of DT's best material in years, but at the end of the day, it still wasn't very memorable. It was a definite return to form following The Astonishing, but it was another helping of more of the same from the band. Not that that's the worst thing in the world if the songs are good, which is somewhat the case with D/T imo.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: geeeemo on December 22, 2020, 02:38:08 PM



04 - The Astonishing - I view this more as a "John Petrucci featuring Dream Theater" album than as a "Dream Theater" album.  I get it.  This was Petrucci's white whale.  An album of this kind has been part of Petrucci's DNA since back in the days of Systematic Chaos when he expressed interest in many interviews in writing more "Science Fiction / Fantasy" style material. So, I was kind of shocked at first when Dream Theater announced they were making a rock-opera and it would be a double album.  But once the album came out and I had a chance to listen and check out the lyrics, well, it's just not what I listen to Dream Theater for.

Agree with this.  Just listened to TA yesterday - fab as ever!
It's interesting that DT fans have such different tastes within the bands catalog. I personally love TA and think it is a top tier DT album!  I would rather have a live bluray from that tour than the Distant Memories release.  I'm not bashing Distant Memories though, as it is a beautiful presentation..
TA was just so unique and special with Labrie's finest moments.   :coolio
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on December 22, 2020, 03:45:37 PM
I like it a lot, but I have found over time that Fall into the Light and At Wit's End are the only two songs I will ever revisit on their own when randomly picking songs to turn on.  Out of Reach and the bonus track Viper King are still money as well, I suppose.  Most of the rest is good, the exceptions being Untethered Angel and Paralyzed both which I quickly tossed into the bland pile along with On the Backs of Angels, A Rite of Passage and Forsaken.

Ultimately, it's probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite album with Mangini (The Astonishing is first), but it would have a hard time at this juncture breaking into my DT top 10.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: emtee on December 22, 2020, 03:50:00 PM
It's my favorite of the MM  era and I spun it regularly for about 6 months. When I want a dose of DT  I seem to go back to I&W thru SDoiT. That's my sweet spot.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: The Letter M on December 22, 2020, 04:00:26 PM
This thread spurred me on to spin d/t just now, and it still holds up for me. I think I still enjoy it about as much as I did when it first came out, nearly two years now (wow), but it's really only a bit better than the previous two. Dream Theater have really kind of drifted off my music-listening radar in recent years, and The Astonishing didn't really help that, but d/t kind of brought me back a bit. Maybe I Just haven't also been in the mood to listen to a lot of the heavier prog and prog-metal lately, or perhaps I've just grown a bit tired of DT's sound over the last decade?

At any rate, it's still a pretty good album over-all, and I still enjoy it whenever I do listen to it, but I don't always go to it right away if I want a DT fix.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Revenge319 on December 22, 2020, 05:46:09 PM
When it released, it was upper mid-tier for me. Nowadays, it's still mid-tier Dream Theater (really awesome but not quite absolutely brilliant) for me, though I'd rank it one spot lower on my DT album rankings (used to be #6, now it's #7 because I've grown to love The Astonishing). At Wit's End and Out of Reach are a little less interesting to me now than they used to be. On the more positive side, Fall Into The Light and Pale Blue Dot are 10/10s, though, and S2N comes pretty close. Untethered Angel is also more enjoyable than it used to be.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Trav86 on December 22, 2020, 06:35:14 PM
It's my favorite of the MM  era and I spun it regularly for about 6 months. When I want a dose of DT  I seem to go back to I&W thru SDoiT. That's my sweet spot.

Same here. When I get in a DT mood, that’s usually where I go. Maybe even take a step back and say WDADU-SFAM.  I’ll sometimes get on a “new” DT kick where I just listen to the last four but once I throw on a classic, I stay there. I would probably say that what most people consider the golden period (SDOIT-8V) as well as SC and BCSL, are my least listened to albums.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: SeRoX on December 22, 2020, 10:13:12 PM
People and even the band seemed to hype about Pale Blue Dot but I think it's kinda boring. I don't remember the last I listened it even though I spin the album time to time. At Wit's End and Barstool Warrior are my fav. Out Of Reach is a good touch and has the feeling of Kevin Moore sound which I miss the most.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 22, 2020, 10:30:20 PM
I'll still listen to songs from the album. One song that grew on me is Barstool Warrior, it grew immensely for me since it's release. Out of Reach too.

Pale Blue Dot, is still in the middle for me. I like it, but others are more meaningful to me, have more melodies I like, etc... I do like it's structure, and how it has this wonderous skeptical vibe and atmosphere. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: erwinrafael on December 22, 2020, 11:44:44 PM
Still listen to this at least once a week either as a full album or as part of a "double album" playlist I did combining with DT12 with the album title "Dream Theater: Now".
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Cool Chris on December 22, 2020, 11:49:35 PM
At Wit's End is about the only individual song I will reach for when in the mood for some solid DT. Paralyzed/FitL/BS is a great run. Everything else is ok. Nothing is an automatic skip. I don't like to judge songs on what I think they should be, but PBD is a real missed opportunity in my book. Some good elements there, lots of potential.... it just didn't come together well.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: MirrorMask on December 23, 2020, 01:07:05 AM
The weirdest album for me.

I agree with everything they've done. Writing it together and bonding over it. More band effort after The Astonishing. More room (137) for Mangini. More lyricists. Heavier stuff but no useless wanking. They basically did the album I would have ordered them to do if it was up to me, and yet as much as I enjoy all the songs, the album had no staying power at all for me. It came and it went and it fell very quickly off my rotation, and probably is the DT album that survived the least in my active playing since I'm a fan. I even enjoyed the songs live, but once again I didn't come back to it after the live show.

It's like when you tell a friend how you like girls, both physically and personality wise, they let you meet a friend that is exactly how you described your dream girl and yet.... yeah, she's pretty, but.... no, the spark isn't there. Weirdest feeling ever. The next album will probably help to put d/t more in perspective for me.

There are a lot of people on this very forum and people I've met in real life that just aren't into the band or this music anymore. I'm not saying that you're one of them but tastes change as people grow older. Even I struggle with that a bit with some bands. Sadly, a lot of those people don't realize they're the problem and not the band.

Again, not directed at you. Just a thought.

You know that the thought crossed my mind? I'm a fan since 1999 and I've always liked more or less basically anything they've ever done, and I loooooove The Astonishing for example. It would be a musical "tragedy", with due brackets, if I just happened to move past the prog metal they offer and that I've always liked in 20 years, with concerts of them always being a high priority for me and always enjoying them. That's what I said that the new album will put things more in perspective for me, I hope to not come to the realization that I'm just not into that music anymore, I thought and assumed DT were by now one of those bands for which I'm in for the long haul.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 23, 2020, 02:01:47 AM
It's a Dream Theater album so it's good of course. But it never really clicked with me.
I never have the urge to listen to it and these days it only comes on if a song is played if I run a random selection.

I think for me that it was a huge let down after the masterpiece that was The Astonishing. That one I cam still get the urge to listen to in full.

Distance Over Time is to me in the lower third of their discography. It's good but not great.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Zydar on December 23, 2020, 02:41:14 AM
I think it was a major step up for me coming from The Astonishing, an album I never got into and would rank last in their discography. DoT has many great songs like Barstool Warrior, At Wit's End, Unthethered Angel, and my personal favourite Fall Into The Light. I really like Viper King as well. I hope they continue down this path with the next one. It's an album I return to from time to time.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on December 23, 2020, 03:01:21 AM
People and even the band seemed to hype about Pale Blue Dot but I think it's kinda boring.

Exactly my feelings about Surrender to Reason, Along for the Ride and Breaking All Illusions.  :(

Oh and IMO - Illumination Theory is my least favourite overall epic I think.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on December 23, 2020, 04:13:31 AM
I really like Viper King as well.
That song should be played live. It would be a great song to close a show right after playing a nice epic, and go out on a fun lighter note..
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on December 23, 2020, 07:28:48 AM
It's a Dream Theater album so it's good of course. But it never really clicked with me.
I never have the urge to listen to it and these days it only comes on if a song is played if I run a random selection.

Distance Over Time is to me in the lower third of their discography. It's good but not great.

I deleted the part about The Astonishing because it's not relevant (and I don't particularly agree, for the record).    But the rest is how I feel abuot D/T.   I have to say, it's in the same category as Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds; really good when compared to other bands, but somehow missing the ingredient that elevates it to transcendent (like previous DT work).   It's NOT the drummers (though I prefer Portnoy to Mangini), but I don't know what it is. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hunnus2000 on December 23, 2020, 08:01:55 AM
D/T still does it for me but I haven't listened to it in quite awhile. The fact that I don't drive into work anymore AND there is new music out there is the main reason why.

And at the risk of derailing this thread, What is this infatuation with Kevin Moore? His work with DT only consisted of 2 albums. Yes - I know he played on Awake but he was so checked out by then that he should have been considered a session keyboardist. There's nothing inspiring about the keyboards on that album.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: gzarruk on December 23, 2020, 11:12:53 AM
And at the risk of derailing this thread, What is this infatuation with Kevin Moore? His work with DT only consisted of 2 albums. Yes - I know he played on Awake but he was so checked out by then that he should have been considered a session keyboardist. There's nothing inspiring about the keyboards on that album.

I'm not in the "KM was the best thing that could happen to this band" train, but I think the keyboards on Awake are fantastic. It's still him writing the stuff with the rest of them, and his completely different approach on that album (compared to IAW and WDADU) showed how versatile he was. The album has this kind of dark atmosphere due to the keyboard sounds he used, and it compliments the album really well, I mean, just listen to LSOAD, it's perfect.

As for the D/T discussion, I still love it, as almost everything done by the band, though I'm still not able to properly rank it among the other albums (it's at the top half for sure, tho). The only thing that it's missing imo are longer songs/epics. I like the shorter/no-nonsense song format they've been doing for a while now, but longer songs don't just have to be a 5 minute song with other 5 minutes of instrumental wanking in it. I've been in a big Neal Morse/Transatlantic epic mood lately, where I'm mostly listening to the 20 or 30 minute epics while going out for walks and there's just so much you can do with song structures in lenghty epics in prog rock/metal, and DT can do that well. I'm hoping for some of that on DT15.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Dream Team on December 23, 2020, 11:21:55 AM
Still easily my least fave of the MM albums unfortunately. For me, there’s nothing extraordinary on it, just a lot of competence. Nothing close to the highs of songs like Breaking All Illusions, and several pretty bland tracks.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 23, 2020, 12:28:34 PM
D/T still does it for me but I haven't listened to it in quite awhile. The fact that I don't drive into work anymore AND there is new music out there is the main reason why.

And at the risk of derailing this thread, What is this infatuation with Kevin Moore? His work with DT only consisted of 2 albums. Yes - I know he played on Awake but he was so checked out by then that he should have been considered a session keyboardist.

I don't think that's accurate. He wasn't into the collaboration as much but he was still very much a part of the process
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on December 23, 2020, 12:50:28 PM
I don't like to judge songs on what I think they should be, but PBD is a real missed opportunity in my book. Some good elements there, lots of potential.... it just didn't come together well.


This is a really perfect summary of how I feel about that track. The first time I heard it the intro made me very excited for what I thought was to come, but it never seems to quite deliver that especially special "thing" that characterizes songs like Learning To Live or Blind Faith or Lines In The Sand. 


Even though I rank DoT as a middle of the pack album I still think Dream Theater have at least one more true masterpiece-level album in them.  I didn't think Fates Warning would ever manage to put out an album like "Theories of Flight" at that point in their careers, but that album blew me away.  I'm ready for Dream Theater to blow me away again.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: MirrorMask on December 23, 2020, 12:55:39 PM
Weird opinion: Pale Blue Dot should have been Illumination Theory.

More precisely, the subject matter was more fitting, mood wise, with the music of Illiumination Theory and there should have been a swap of lyrics.

IT lyrics are fine per se and do fit the music, but the way I see the Pale Blue Dot speech by Sagan, that is a celebration of humility, an ode to all the beautiful things we can find on this planet despite our complete cosmic irrevelance. A wonderful "we don't mean anything and that precisely is why we mean so much" speech. That speech would have been adapted way better over Illumination Theory's music, especially the last part. A relatively short song (stretched by an insane solo section) with a couple of menacing sounding verses just doesn't do it for that wonderful, amazing and awe-inspiring Sagan speech.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 23, 2020, 01:55:12 PM
I still think Out of Reach is the best song on the album.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on December 23, 2020, 02:57:13 PM
Weird opinion: Pale Blue Dot should have been Illumination Theory.

More precisely, the subject matter was more fitting, mood wise, with the music of Illiumination Theory and there should have been a swap of lyrics.

IT lyrics are fine per se and do fit the music, but the way I see the Pale Blue Dot speech by Sagan, that is a celebration of humility, an ode to all the beautiful things we can find on this planet despite our complete cosmic irrevelance. A wonderful "we don't mean anything and that precisely is why we mean so much" speech. That speech would have been adapted way better over Illumination Theory's music, especially the last part. A relatively short song (stretched by an insane solo section) with a couple of menacing sounding verses just doesn't do it for that wonderful, amazing and awe-inspiring Sagan speech.

Absolutely agree. When I saw the tracklist for D/T, I was very excited to hear this song in particular. But the more bleak delivery and the chugging riffs really do not fit the tone of the speech well imo.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 23, 2020, 07:04:57 PM
Weird opinion: Pale Blue Dot should have been Illumination Theory.

More precisely, the subject matter was more fitting, mood wise, with the music of Illiumination Theory and there should have been a swap of lyrics.

IT lyrics are fine per se and do fit the music, but the way I see the Pale Blue Dot speech by Sagan, that is a celebration of humility, an ode to all the beautiful things we can find on this planet despite our complete cosmic irrevelance. A wonderful "we don't mean anything and that precisely is why we mean so much" speech. That speech would have been adapted way better over Illumination Theory's music, especially the last part. A relatively short song (stretched by an insane solo section) with a couple of menacing sounding verses just doesn't do it for that wonderful, amazing and awe-inspiring Sagan speech.

I don't think that is the point JP was trying to convey in the lyrics and the music.  The music of Pale Blue Dot has this mystical, mysterious, almost bleak, atmosphere. That out of all the planets, this one pale blue dot, houses all life as we know it, from God Creators to Dream Destroyers, and all our troubles.

The way I hear the song is like the point of view of a Satellite, the one that took the famous picture, drifting further and further into space. While we here on Earth are searching for other life out there or in this case "Who's out there, to save us from ourselves?" The lyrics end with that question as you also are left to ponder.  As the satellite continues to drift onwards along. Which the music underneath that section has a drifting kind of atmosphere and mood, with the Drums having a marching type of beat, and the chord choices involved.

But this video (https://youtu.be/wupToqz1e2g) does, coincidentally (and I find it, funny), have a music background that has the Illumination Theory String Section type of vibe.

I do really wish they could've kept the live intro they used. It really fits that intro.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: MirrorMask on December 24, 2020, 01:09:27 AM
Well, that's a very nice interpretation and why should I disagree with you, since that's how you feel about it, nice take on it.

As for me, I still think that speech deserve a triumphant and emotional tune and not a dark-ish one, but it's cool that for other people the song and the lyrics fit.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: erwinrafael on December 24, 2020, 01:22:12 AM
The Pale Blue Dot music focused on this particular portion of Sagan's speech:

"The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves."

Since this is the focus, the music fits.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on December 24, 2020, 07:21:52 AM
Since it's not really a speech to be celebrated, I think the music fits.  It's not my favorite song on the record, though.

*I'm not a fan of that idea that we have to be "saved" from "ourselves".   All those things, all that "hubris" that is being castigated by Sagan are also the characteristics that led to our medical breakthroughs, our social breakthroughs, our cultural breakthroughs...   none of us - including Sagan, by the way - have the viewpoint to judge a hundred thousand years of man's existence (out of 4.5 BILLION years of Earth) in that manner.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 24, 2020, 10:07:36 AM
Since it's not really a speech to be celebrated, I think the music fits.  It's not my favorite song on the record, though.

*I'm not a fan of that idea that we have to be "saved" from "ourselves".   All those things, all that "hubris" that is being castigated by Sagan are also the characteristics that led to our medical breakthroughs, our social breakthroughs, our cultural breakthroughs...   none of us - including Sagan, by the way - have the viewpoint to judge a hundred thousand years of man's existence (out of 4.5 BILLION years of Earth) in that manner.

It's not my favorite either. That would go to At Wits End, and actually Barstool Warrior is pretty miches tied now with At Wits End.


Now another cool lyrical song is S2N. Using the Signal to Noise ratio as an allusion for us to distinguish the noise from the music. And then you add the Wow signal for even more awesomeness, which can allude to the lyrics in Pale Blue Dot "Who's out there to save us from ourselves" It's a cool foreshadow if you know what the WOW signal is.

Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Skeever on December 24, 2020, 10:34:02 AM
Not far off two years since this album was released...


• How did you feel about it two years ago ?

• How do you feel about it now ?


I liked it a lot and still play it every once in a while. I'm not tired of it yet because I haven't over played it. Much like The Astonishing.

I tend to listen to new albums on repeat for like a week and then very sporadically after that so they still seem "new".

I think it's easily the best Mangini era album and the closest to the "classic" ( Scenes - Octavarium ) Era since Octavarium.

Pretty much agree with the OP. Worst part is just the epic closer, Pale Blue Dot, which sounds like a song they gave up on halfway to me...
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: tnphelps on December 28, 2020, 08:15:59 PM
FANTASTIC analogy.

Exactly how I feel. Its actually caused me to take a break from DT. Longest break since mid 90's. Also causing me to branch out and find new interesting music. In the past after I tire of a new release, I just go back to the catalog. This time is different. But I eager to hear the new album when completed and released.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: erwinrafael on December 29, 2020, 02:56:07 AM
How people can find disjointedness in Pale Blue Dot but not in Metropolis Pt. 1 is a mystery to me. The chaos of the PBD instrumental at least can be justified thematically as the feeling of floating in deep space.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 29, 2020, 09:15:04 AM
How people can find disjointedness in Pale Blue Dot but not in Metropolis Pt. 1 is a mystery to me. The chaos of the PBD instrumental at least can be justified thematically as the feeling of floating in deep space.

All of Metropolis is just non-sense, when you really look at it. The only reason Metropolis is held so high is due to it being, at the time, the craziest instrumental section, mixed with Metal, and prog. It also, has to to do with the Bass solo, and then the last scale section of the instrumental. And you know what else makes that song great, is the tone choice of KM's keys and the melodies.

Pale Blue Dot, is new and the band is already established, and people have an expectation for the band now. And you now have songs that are under what I call the "Classic", "old", "vintage", bias...That is Metropolis pt.1.

The Pale Blue Dot instrumental section reminds me of The Count of Tuscany, the instrumental after the chorus and before the calm part begins. But that Drum breakdown solo is one of the best things DT has done so far with Mangini. I love that section, and it was great to hear live, with the lows coming out nicely.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hunnus2000 on December 29, 2020, 01:32:56 PM
How people can find disjointedness in Pale Blue Dot but not in Metropolis Pt. 1 is a mystery to me. The chaos of the PBD instrumental at least can be justified thematically as the feeling of floating in deep space.

All of Metropolis is just non-sense, when you really look at it. The only reason Metropolis is held so high is due to it being, at the time, the craziest instrumental section, mixed with Metal, and prog. It also, has to to do with the Bass solo, and then the last scale section of the instrumental. And you know what else makes that song great, is the tone choice of KM's keys and the melodies.

Pale Blue Dot, is new and the band is already established, and people have an expectation for the band now. And you now have songs that are under what I call the "Classic", "old", "vintage", bias...That is Metropolis pt.1.

The Pale Blue Dot instrumental section reminds me of The Count of Tuscany, the instrumental after the chorus and before the calm part begins. But that Drum breakdown solo is one of the best things DT has done so far with Mangini. I love that section, and it was great to hear live, with the lows coming out nicely.
To me, the best part of M-P-1 is the intro, hugely powerful and emotional but after that it kind of wanders without purpose. But they were in their band infancy and I chalked that up to (as Rush would put it about their early stuff) "youthful exuberance".

Now, the instrumental part of PBD reminds me of the ending of Cygnus X-1 where the ship goes into a black hole. Not strictly but conceptually.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Pettor on December 29, 2020, 01:51:56 PM
Barstool Warrior solo could be the best Petrucci solo ever imo. That song has stood the test of time extremely well for me.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Trav86 on December 29, 2020, 01:54:45 PM
Barstool Warrior solo could be the best Petrucci solo ever imo. That song has stood the test of time extremely well for me.

I think it’s their best song of the last ten years. A spot that Breaking All Illusions had held for me.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on December 29, 2020, 03:47:31 PM
Musically, Barstool Warrior is totally bad ass.

Vocally, while James does a good enough job in the studio version, it always feels like the vocal melodies were a tad off the mark at times.  Like, the ending doesn't feel as climatic to me as it could have, almost like the melody they were aiming for was slightly missed.  Not sure if it was the written melody or if James struggled to hit the intended-for mark. That is the best way I can explain it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 29, 2020, 04:15:06 PM
Musically, Barstool Warrior is totally bad ass.

Vocally, while James does a good enough job in the studio version, it always feels like the vocal melodies were a tad off the mark at times.  Like, the ending doesn't feel as climatic to me as it could have, almost like the melody they were aiming for was slightly missed.  Not sure if it was the written melody or if James struggled to hit the intended-for mark. That is the best way I can explain it.

Let me ask you this first....What would the climax of the song be for you? For me, the climax is "No one can save you, and there's no one to save" and the rest is the after-release calm down. With the ending being more triumphant, and not really in the "I finally accomplished" sense, but in the "I realize and will start this change" sense, which is how both characters are where they finally know where they belong, because no one save them but themselves.

I also like how, those lyrics mention an abused women, and later on that subject of an abused women, is presented even further with a song about the mental torment of rape, and how that affects the relationship. It's that same women, in Barstool Warrior, only we are now witnessing the convo of the husband wanting to do his best to help her, and is At Wit's End.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Trav86 on December 29, 2020, 04:20:23 PM
Musically, Barstool Warrior is totally bad ass.

Vocally, while James does a good enough job in the studio version, it always feels like the vocal melodies were a tad off the mark at times.  Like, the ending doesn't feel as climatic to me as it could have, almost like the melody they were aiming for was slightly missed.  Not sure if it was the written melody or if James struggled to hit the intended-for mark. That is the best way I can explain it.

It had what I call (for lack of the musical knowledge) the “anti-climatic” ending. It seems to be popular with them in the Mangini era. Songs like, Breaking All Illusions, The Bigger Picture, Astonishing and Barstool Warrior. It’s like the melody descends instead ascending. Instead of the big epic cheesy ending that every long song had during the 2000s.  If any of that makes sense.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on December 29, 2020, 08:51:23 PM
Musically, Barstool Warrior is totally bad ass.

Vocally, while James does a good enough job in the studio version, it always feels like the vocal melodies were a tad off the mark at times.  Like, the ending doesn't feel as climatic to me as it could have, almost like the melody they were aiming for was slightly missed.  Not sure if it was the written melody or if James struggled to hit the intended-for mark. That is the best way I can explain it.

Let me ask you this first....What would the climax of the song be for you? For me, the climax is "No one can save you, and there's no one to save" and the rest is the after-release calm down. With the ending being more triumphant, and not really in the "I finally accomplished" sense, but in the "I realize and will start this change" sense, which is how both characters are where they finally know where they belong, because no one save them but themselves.

I also like how, those lyrics mention an abused women, and later on that subject of an abused women, is presented even further with a song about the mental torment of rape, and how that affects the relationship. It's that same women, in Barstool Warrior, only we are now witnessing the convo of the husband wanting to do his best to help her, and is At Wit's End.

All you dream
Now I'm cutting the anchor away
And I won't look back
I'm starting a new life today
Now I see where I belong


I get what you are saying, and I like the ending; I just don't love it.  Seems very abrupt.


It had what I call (for lack of the musical knowledge) the “anti-climatic” ending. It seems to be popular with them in the Mangini era. Songs like, Breaking All Illusions, The Bigger Picture, Astonishing and Barstool Warrior. It’s like the melody descends instead ascending. Instead of the big epic cheesy ending that every long song had during the 2000s.  If any of that makes sense.

Makes sense. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: TAC on December 29, 2020, 09:02:08 PM
Perfectly describes Bridges In The Sky.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 29, 2020, 11:01:57 PM
Musically, Barstool Warrior is totally bad ass.

Vocally, while James does a good enough job in the studio version, it always feels like the vocal melodies were a tad off the mark at times.  Like, the ending doesn't feel as climatic to me as it could have, almost like the melody they were aiming for was slightly missed.  Not sure if it was the written melody or if James struggled to hit the intended-for mark. That is the best way I can explain it.

Let me ask you this first....What would the climax of the song be for you? For me, the climax is "No one can save you, and there's no one to save" and the rest is the after-release calm down. With the ending being more triumphant, and not really in the "I finally accomplished" sense, but in the "I realize and will start this change" sense, which is how both characters are where they finally know where they belong, because no one save them but themselves.

I also like how, those lyrics mention an abused women, and later on that subject of an abused women, is presented even further with a song about the mental torment of rape, and how that affects the relationship. It's that same women, in Barstool Warrior, only we are now witnessing the convo of the husband wanting to do his best to help her, and is At Wit's End.

All you dream
Now I'm cutting the anchor away
And I won't look back
I'm starting a new life today
Now I see where I belong


I get what you are saying, and I like the ending; I just don't love it.  Seems very abrupt.



I dig it. To me, I get what you're saying (or what I think you're saying) about it not quite being an epic way to finish the song. It works though because I think it's not an epic. If it had this big epic ending I don't think it would fit the very casually observant nature of the song.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 30, 2020, 12:21:09 AM
Musically, Barstool Warrior is totally bad ass.

Vocally, while James does a good enough job in the studio version, it always feels like the vocal melodies were a tad off the mark at times.  Like, the ending doesn't feel as climatic to me as it could have, almost like the melody they were aiming for was slightly missed.  Not sure if it was the written melody or if James struggled to hit the intended-for mark. That is the best way I can explain it.

Let me ask you this first....What would the climax of the song be for you? For me, the climax is "No one can save you, and there's no one to save" and the rest is the after-release calm down. With the ending being more triumphant, and not really in the "I finally accomplished" sense, but in the "I realize and will start this change" sense, which is how both characters are where they finally know where they belong, because no one save them but themselves.

I also like how, those lyrics mention an abused women, and later on that subject of an abused women, is presented even further with a song about the mental torment of rape, and how that affects the relationship. It's that same women, in Barstool Warrior, only we are now witnessing the convo of the husband wanting to do his best to help her, and is At Wit's End.

All you dream
Now I'm cutting the anchor away
And I won't look back
I'm starting a new life today
Now I see where I belong


I get what you are saying, and I like the ending; I just don't love it.  Seems very abrupt.



I dig it. To me, I get what you're saying (or what I think you're saying) about it not quite being an epic way to finish the song. It works though because I think it's not an epic. If it had this big epic ending I don't think it would fit the very casually observant nature of the song.

Same here...

And it's also why I feel The Bigger Picture also has this type of ending. As it has an observant message as well.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on December 30, 2020, 09:06:40 PM
Musically, Barstool Warrior is totally bad ass.

Vocally, while James does a good enough job in the studio version, it always feels like the vocal melodies were a tad off the mark at times.  Like, the ending doesn't feel as climatic to me as it could have, almost like the melody they were aiming for was slightly missed.  Not sure if it was the written melody or if James struggled to hit the intended-for mark. That is the best way I can explain it.

Let me ask you this first....What would the climax of the song be for you? For me, the climax is "No one can save you, and there's no one to save" and the rest is the after-release calm down. With the ending being more triumphant, and not really in the "I finally accomplished" sense, but in the "I realize and will start this change" sense, which is how both characters are where they finally know where they belong, because no one save them but themselves.

I also like how, those lyrics mention an abused women, and later on that subject of an abused women, is presented even further with a song about the mental torment of rape, and how that affects the relationship. It's that same women, in Barstool Warrior, only we are now witnessing the convo of the husband wanting to do his best to help her, and is At Wit's End.

All you dream
Now I'm cutting the anchor away
And I won't look back
I'm starting a new life today
Now I see where I belong


I get what you are saying, and I like the ending; I just don't love it.  Seems very abrupt.



I dig it. To me, I get what you're saying (or what I think you're saying) about it not quite being an epic way to finish the song. It works though because I think it's not an epic. If it had this big epic ending I don't think it would fit the very casually observant nature of the song.

I suppose, but while I don't think it had to have an epic ending per se, a fuller chorus (referencing the part I quoted above) might have giving it a more satisfying ending (for me).  As I said earlier, that final section just feels very abrupt.  *shrugs*
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on December 31, 2020, 03:17:06 AM
Dream Theater have never really been all that great at writing memorable/hooky choruses.   Their music is a vehicle for showing off technical prowess, for the most part. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on December 31, 2020, 06:26:55 AM
So looking back at this album, it's easily the best of the MM era. It's what DT12 should have been in all levels. It improves everything over the self-titled album..it's heavy and the songs are better composed and structured..They clearly achieved what ever plan they had to do for sure, making it sound more concise..The only thing is that it's an album that doesn't stick to you and it doesn't contain the classic progressive instrumental sections that the band is known for..Now, that's something that they left behind clearly from DT12 and maybe they'll bring it back with the new record, who knows..let's hope it would really sound like the new DT record and not so much as a DoT part 2..
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on December 31, 2020, 11:03:59 AM
let's hope it would really sound like the new DT record and not so much as a DoT part 2..
I'd be ok with that myself,  d/t sounds fabulous!  If they expand on that direction it could be a good thing.  :tup
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 31, 2020, 11:08:22 AM
I still think Out of Reach is the best song on the album.
I agree. That and PBD.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 31, 2020, 11:09:24 AM
let's hope it would really sound like the new DT record and not so much as a DoT part 2..
I'd be ok with that myself,  d/t sounds fabulous!  If they expand on that direction it could be a good thing.  :tup
My guess is that this will not happen, given that DT never made (and never will make) the same record twice. (and to me that's a good thing)
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Sebastián Pratesi on December 31, 2020, 12:13:29 PM
Dream Theater have never really been all that great at writing memorable/hooky choruses.   Their music is a vehicle for showing off technical prowess, for the most part.

I don't know. The choruses in "Barstool Warrior" and "Behind The Veil" are really good to me.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 31, 2020, 12:21:09 PM
Dream Theater have never really been all that great at writing memorable/hooky choruses.   Their music is a vehicle for showing off technical prowess, for the most part.

I don't know. The choruses in "Barstool Warrior" and "Behind The Veil" are really good to me.
I agree. Add any chorus on ADTOE too.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: CDrice on December 31, 2020, 12:34:32 PM
I still feel strongly about this album. It's my favorite Mangini era album and perhaps it's controversial to say, but I'd say it's my favorite since Six Degrees. I still listen to it fairly regularly. It doesn't reach the classic status that Six Degrees, Images & Words and Scenes have, but I find it so consistently good that I'd rank it just below those three. I look forward to the next one!
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hunnus2000 on December 31, 2020, 12:49:50 PM
Dream Theater have never really been all that great at writing memorable/hooky choruses.   Their music is a vehicle for showing off technical prowess, for the most part.

I don't know. The choruses in "Barstool Warrior" and "Behind The Veil" are really good to me.
I agree. Add any chorus on ADTOE too.

I'd say their sense of melody was redefined in the MM era.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on December 31, 2020, 12:56:13 PM
I always thought Dream Theater is one of the best bands out there when it comes to catchy choruses. Pretty much every song on 8vm qualifies.  Same goes for most DT albums.  :coolio
 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on December 31, 2020, 12:57:21 PM
Yeah DT for me are the exact opposite of most virtuoso bands who can do all the widdly widdly but cant write a song FOR. SHIT.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: gzarruk on December 31, 2020, 01:15:19 PM
Yeah DT for me are the exact opposite of most virtuoso bands who can do all the widdly widdly but cant write a song FOR. SHIT.

Yep. I can't understand people who say "DT are just a bunch of wankers", they have a lot of sense of melody and write for the song, specially in the MM era.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on December 31, 2020, 01:18:33 PM
Yeah, I agree with you guys. DT wouldn't have lasted this long and kept such a large (by underground standards) fanbase if they didn't write good melodies.  I remember hearing Scenes from a Memory for the first time and being struck by how strong the hooks were.  Same with Images and Words.  Their musicianship and need to wank is certainly often at the forefront, but they have always cared about writing good songs.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: TAC on December 31, 2020, 09:04:49 PM
Melody is what separates them from generic prog metal. Their songwriting is strong.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on January 01, 2021, 04:47:06 AM
Yeah their songs sound like they were written on acoustic guitars and piano first and then all the widdly was added later as icing.

Whereas some tech bands sound like they came up with the widdy widdly to start with then put a generic  ' I - bVII - bVI - V '

progression over it.

I love Trivium a lot - but so many of their songs use the same progression it's almost comical.

Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: BelichickFan on January 01, 2021, 08:44:57 AM
I still love it, it's a really good CD.  The problem for me is it seems like they went in saying "nothing over 10 minutes". Then they had a track (PBD) begging to be an epic and they cut it off early. B+ album for me but there was an A staring them in the face and they declined.

My favorite, though, since Octavarium. Behind I&W and Awake. Somewhere in the next group with Scenes, 6 Degrees, Octavarium and Astonishing. Probably would have been #3 if they had extended PBD.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on January 01, 2021, 09:50:09 AM
Scenes Until, and including Octavarium had the 'classic' DT feel for me.

Something was missing on SC and BC&SL.

ADTOE had it a little bit but it wasn't until The Gift of Music that I felt like they'd got it back. Hearing that song was like listening to About To Crash. They're quite similar.

Distance Over Time to me sounds and feels like it slots into that SFAM - OCT run. Maybe the album that sonically could have come out between Octavarium and Systematic Chaos.

:)
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on January 01, 2021, 11:13:42 AM
I think I understand where Barry is coming from, but I think it's all relative.  There are few earworms like I get from Jellyfish, but they're not Jellyfish.  I listen to some other prog rock and "melodies" are like water in the desert, or oxygen on the moon:  nonexistant.   

I think there's a good mix with DT, or at least there was.   I love how a melody comes out of nowhere - "Without love, without truth... there can be no turning back!" or the "All that we learn..." part of "Beyond This Life".   For me, and I know this is my opinion only, James was always a key part of why I loved DT so much and what set them apart, and a good portion of THAT was the distinctive melody lines of the vocal, at least relative to other prog metal outfits.

For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".  Images and Words came out in the thick of grunge, a movement that was so strong that (three or four years later) led even bands like Def Leppard (Slang) and Kiss (Carnival) put out "grunge" records.   Yet, there's not a note of grunge on I&W.   It was moving in the opposite direction.   I'm a fan of Mike, but I think around that time of SC and BC&SL, he was starting to look at other bands, and guys like Lars and Charlie Benante, and wanted DT to be "his" version of that.  It's hard to put into words, and I have zero proof, but it's a feeling I have.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 01, 2021, 01:29:39 PM
I think I understand where Barry is coming from, but I think it's all relative.  There are few earworms like I get from Jellyfish, but they're not Jellyfish.  I listen to some other prog rock and "melodies" are like water in the desert, or oxygen on the moon:  nonexistant.   

I think there's a good mix with DT, or at least there was.   I love how a melody comes out of nowhere - "Without love, without truth... there can be no turning back!" or the "All that we learn..." part of "Beyond This Life".   For me, and I know this is my opinion only, James was always a key part of why I loved DT so much and what set them apart, and a good portion of THAT was the distinctive melody lines of the vocal, at least relative to other prog metal outfits.

For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".  Images and Words came out in the thick of grunge, a movement that was so strong that (three or four years later) led even bands like Def Leppard (Slang) and Kiss (Carnival) put out "grunge" records.   Yet, there's not a note of grunge on I&W.   It was moving in the opposite direction.   I'm a fan of Mike, but I think around that time of SC and BC&SL, he was starting to look at other bands, and guys like Lars and Charlie Benante, and wanted DT to be "his" version of that.  It's hard to put into words, and I have zero proof, but it's a feeling I have.

That's when they started becoming "METAL"  :metal 

And MP was more interested in the "METAL" at the time, including wanting more "METAL" in the vocals, which the vocalists for the band obviously couldn't do, in the way MP wanted them done. So, we got the "EVERYONE SURVIVES...ROOOOOOOAOAOAROAROARA" because MP was also the producer and wanted that in the song. (I attribute this to MP: The Producer, and not MP as a person or MP: The Drummer. Although, they do intertwine with how MP: The Producer, produces.)

It's also when MP went full on Harmony, Queen mode. With Prophets of War, being overly harmonized. Being how he is with vocals, I still don't get why he did not do those vocals live.


Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: NoFred on January 01, 2021, 07:42:28 PM
I&W was a revelation (but I was 14 so what did I know).

I love some songs from SC and BCSL but those two to me are both very “hey we’re on RR records now.” And I like the muse song :)

D/T to me is dream theater radio, all songs sound a bit different, are well done but are missing one thing mostly due to length (awe too long and PBD too short) but somehow if someone wanted a DT mixtape from me I’d give them this to start... low calorie DT.

I love it, best since adtoe but I look forward to dt15 which I realistically hope is blend of adtoe and d/t.

Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: TAC on January 01, 2021, 07:55:02 PM

For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".

I hope you don't hold that against James, because in my opinion, he did exactly what was asked of him. I thought he was flawless on those albums.

I actually listened to The Count Of Tuscany last night, and the emotion in his voice is palpable.


He was way underused for a number of albums. The thing is, he's their secret weapon. He has a unique voice that can carry drama with it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: gzarruk on January 01, 2021, 08:28:40 PM
He has a unique voice that can carry drama with it.

I thought that was Mike Portnoy.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Cool Chris on January 01, 2021, 09:30:23 PM
For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".
I hope you don't hold that against James, because in my opinion, he did exactly what was asked of him. I thought he was flawless on those albums.

No doubt. Any time I have complaints about James' studio work (which is rare) I tend to put them on the writer(s) and what they were asking of James.

SC is a strange case because there are some of DT's worst written vocal parts, and then some amazing performances, like ItPoE pt 2, which could have been laughably bad if not for James killing it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: erwinrafael on January 02, 2021, 01:57:49 AM
That's when they started becoming "METAL"  :metal 

And MP was more interested in the "METAL" at the time, including wanting more "METAL" in the vocals, which the vocalists for the band obviously couldn't do, in the way MP wanted them done. So, we got the "EVERYONE SURVIVES...ROOOOOOOAOAOAROAROARA" because MP was also the producer and wanted that in the song. (I attribute this to MP: The Producer, and not MP as a person or MP: The Drummer. Although, they do intertwine with how MP: The Producer, produces.)

The ironic thing about that period is that as MP.pushed more to the metal direction, the more the music did not fit his drumming style. His strength was in the prog side, not the metal. Which is why whenever we hear a live release of a song from that period with Mangini, it almost always sounded better. TSF, ANTR, ITPOE Pt. 1, TDEN
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on January 02, 2021, 03:09:52 AM
Dream Theater have never really been all that great at writing memorable/hooky choruses.   Their music is a vehicle for showing off technical prowess, for the most part.

I don't know. The choruses in "Barstool Warrior" and "Behind The Veil" are really good to me.


Well, yeah, I didn't say their music is completely devoid of melody.  Sure they have some songs with great choruses, but they tend to be few and far between and mostly confined to the more ballad-ish material.  The bulk of their music is not hooks, though, it's riffs, especially modern Dream Theater

Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hunnus2000 on January 02, 2021, 08:16:06 AM
I agree with the comments about MP the producer vs. MP the musician. Depending on the album, I always felt that JLB was guided on how to sing certain songs. MP once commented on how a song has to have balls which piqued my interest. After he left, I felt that JLB and even JR were able to express themselves in a way that they hadn't been able to previously.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 02, 2021, 09:14:53 AM
That's when they started becoming "METAL"  :metal 

And MP was more interested in the "METAL" at the time, including wanting more "METAL" in the vocals, which the vocalists for the band obviously couldn't do, in the way MP wanted them done. So, we got the "EVERYONE SURVIVES...ROOOOOOOAOAOAROAROARA" because MP was also the producer and wanted that in the song. (I attribute this to MP: The Producer, and not MP as a person or MP: The Drummer. Although, they do intertwine with how MP: The Producer, produces.)

The ironic thing about that period is that as MP.pushed more to the metal direction, the more the music did not fit his drumming style. His strength was in the prog side, not the metal. Which is why whenever we hear a live release of a song from that period with Mangini, it almost always sounded better. TSF, ANTR, ITPOE Pt. 1, TDEN

I attribute it to MP doing some amazing creative things in the Drumming on those albums. But never really replicating the parts live. Mangini does this and more.

What I noticed on ANTR and ITPOEpt.1 and also on Beyond This Life, is the kick drum. Mangini does kick drum stuff that really adds that extra Metal element to these songs. Plus, in ANTR, he actually can do the blast beat.

That is where it showed that MP never practiced. And should've practiced to get that part down live, because it's just not great live.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on January 02, 2021, 09:26:43 AM


For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".  Images and Words came out in the thick of grunge, a movement that was so strong that (three or four years later) led even bands like Def Leppard (Slang) and Kiss (Carnival) put out "grunge" records.   Yet, there's not a note of grunge on I&W.   It was moving in the opposite direction.   I'm a fan of Mike, but I think around that time of SC and BC&SL, he was starting to look at other bands, and guys like Lars and Charlie Benante, and wanted DT to be "his" version of that.  It's hard to put into words, and I have zero proof, but it's a feeling I have.

Agreed. And I like both of those albums, but they pale in comparison to pretty much everything prior to them, and quite honestly, I think most of the Mangini albums exceed them as well (ADTOE is one I might put lower than BC&SL now, but that is largely because of how aggravating the muddy production is; the songwriting was largely excellent).  I have no problem with them trying different things, and in fact I applaud it as that is how you grow and expand your sound, but it just felt like some of the vocal melodies on those two albums (SC and BC&SL) did not play to JLB's greatest strengths.  Heck, despite it being a flawed album, his performance on The Astonishing is probably why I love that album so much; most of those songs played to his greatest strengths as a vocalist, especially as he ages.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 02, 2021, 11:21:43 AM


For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time". 

Dude, this is messed up. This is like the 8th time in a row I've agreed with you. With that said, I think it works great on SC and not so much on BC. I've always dug the metal side of DT more than the prog side. It actually took me a while to get into I&W because of how much more proggy than heavy it was.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on January 02, 2021, 11:50:56 AM


For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".  Images and Words came out in the thick of grunge, a movement that was so strong that (three or four years later) led even bands like Def Leppard (Slang) and Kiss (Carnival) put out "grunge" records.   Yet, there's not a note of grunge on I&W.   It was moving in the opposite direction.   I'm a fan of Mike, but I think around that time of SC and BC&SL, he was starting to look at other bands, and guys like Lars and Charlie Benante, and wanted DT to be "his" version of that.  It's hard to put into words, and I have zero proof, but it's a feeling I have.

 Heck, despite it being a flawed album, his performance on The Astonishing is probably why I love that album so much; most of those songs played to his greatest strengths as a vocalist, especially as he ages.
For me personally,  I think TA is the high point of JLB's entire catalog. He knocked it out of the park on that whole album, and really brought it when they played it live.  Also, there's nothing flawed about TA imo.  :tup
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hunnus2000 on January 02, 2021, 01:22:28 PM

For me personally,  I think TA is the high point of JLB's entire catalog. He knocked it out of the park on that whole album, and really brought it when they played it live.  Also, there's nothing flawed about TA imo.  :tup

Couldn't agree more and I would say it's the high point of DT's entire catalog! I always find it interesting how people refuse to listen to it but still criticize it.  ???
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 02, 2021, 08:32:37 PM
You peeps shamelessly loving TA: Thank you. Where have you been all this time? Top 5 DT album for me, easy. Any day of the week.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: geeeemo on January 02, 2021, 09:07:33 PM
I love TA! Just went thru the whole thing last week, and now can't wait to listen again. I think I love it more each time. James sounds so good..beautiful in the ballads. Perfect.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on January 03, 2021, 05:15:21 AM
I loved The Astonishing immediately.

As I said previously - The Gift of Music reminded me of " About To Crash ". Loved the production on the whole album too. And Our New World is a great song.

I splashed out slightly and bought the 4xLP vinyl boxset of the album .
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on January 03, 2021, 05:54:26 AM
I tried listening to The Astonishing yesterday at the gym.  As usual, I made it about 1/2 way through disc 1 and had to turn it off.  I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"


I think it would have been 1000 times better had they paired it down to a single album, that's my biggest beef with it, the bloated feel of it.  I routinely skip past half the album.


That said, the production values are really quite good.  Maybe a top 3 Dream Theater album in terms of how it sounds.  I think Distance Over Time also sounds great, one of the best produced Dream Theater albums to date.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DTA on January 03, 2021, 06:09:37 AM
I tried listening to The Astonishing yesterday at the gym.  As usual, I made it about 1/2 way through disc 1 and had to turn it off.  I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"


I think it would have been 1000 times better had they paired it down to a single album, that's my biggest beef with it, the bloated feel of it.  I routinely skip past half the album.


That said, the production values are really quite good.  Maybe a top 3 Dream Theater album in terms of how it sounds.  I think Distance Over Time also sounds great, one of the best produced Dream Theater albums to date.

It's easily in my top 5 favorite albums of theirs and I've been a fan for over 20 years. I don't understand how fans don't like it. And I don't see how anything on there is considered bloat when every song is fully realized and interludes are no longer than a minute or 2. Hell, every album from Six Degrees through Black Clouds has way more bloat than TA with endless repetition and overbearing song lengths.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: ReaperKK on January 03, 2021, 07:19:10 AM
I love DoT from the moment I heard it and I can't say I've felt that way since SC. It still remains a top 3 DT album for me and is the one that gets spun the most. I think all the songs on it are consistently good and have great songwriting.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on January 03, 2021, 08:35:43 AM
You peeps shamelessly loving TA: Thank you. Where have you been all this time? Top 5 DT album for me, easy. Any day of the week.

Hey now, I have been here the whole time!  :biggrin: :biggrin:


For me personally,  I think TA is the high point of JLB's entire catalog. He knocked it out of the park on that whole album, and really brought it when they played it live.  Also, there's nothing flawed about TA imo.  :tup

I think it could have been a bit more concise (like many double concept albums, it comes off as a bit too long), but I still love it.  :coolio
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hunnus2000 on January 03, 2021, 09:50:46 AM
I tried listening to The Astonishing yesterday at the gym.  As usual, I made it about 1/2 way through disc 1 and had to turn it off.  I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"


I think it would have been 1000 times better had they paired it down to a single album, that's my biggest beef with it, the bloated feel of it.  I routinely skip past half the album.


That said, the production values are really quite good.  Maybe a top 3 Dream Theater album in terms of how it sounds.  I think Distance Over Time also sounds great, one of the best produced Dream Theater albums to date.

Well I would think that TA would not be a good listen while working out.........
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 03, 2021, 11:00:25 AM
Hey now, I have been here the whole time!  :biggrin: :biggrin:

I know you have, bae  :-*

I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"

lol why
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: geeeemo on January 03, 2021, 11:05:49 AM
I tried listening to The Astonishing yesterday at the gym.  As usual, I made it about 1/2 way through disc 1 and had to turn it off.  I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"


I think it would have been 1000 times better had they paired it down to a single album, that's my biggest beef with it, the bloated feel of it.  I routinely skip past half the album.


That said, the production values are really quite good.  Maybe a top 3 Dream Theater album in terms of how it sounds.  I think Distance Over Time also sounds great, one of the best produced Dream Theater albums to date.

Well I would think that TA would not be a good listen while working out.........
Its great for a long bike ride. The gym needs a DT metal playlist.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 03, 2021, 11:10:29 AM
Also, it was an incredible live/theater experience. I've seen DT live probably around 9 or 10 times and the Astonishing concert has been one of my favorites. I enjoyed it so much that I bought tickets for an extra night in Mexico City after a wonderful first night (I had only the plan of going to one of the two dates). It was really different, in a good way.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 03, 2021, 11:39:47 AM
Also, it was an incredible live/theater experience. I've seen DT live probably around 9 or 10 times and the Astonishing concert has been one of my favorites. I enjoyed it so much that I bought tickets for an extra night in Mexico City after a wonderful first night (I had only the plan of going to one of the two dates). It was really different, in a good way.

Same here. I saw both US legs. Which sucked for me, because the songs that got cut, are ones I really enjoy and they were amazing live. Especially, The X Aspect. That opening piano segment, and then the acoustic guitar and JLB verse, that builds into the climatic end, was an amazing 4 minutes.

I am replying with more about that song, and why I enjoy that song. I cut what I said out of this reply and made this one less, derailing.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on January 04, 2021, 03:15:18 AM
Hey now, I have been here the whole time!  :biggrin: :biggrin:

I know you have, bae  :-*

I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"

lol why


lol because I find it about as interesting as watching grass grow  :lol
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 04, 2021, 08:19:59 AM
I got that, but one thing is to say you don’t like it (and that’s completely fine), but another is to say you cannot understand why someone who’s been a DT fan for over 10 years likes it. I could go on on a long-ass post developing why I love TA (I have been there before) but I see no reason to. It’s perfecty fine that you don’t like TA, it’s just your particular wording that got my attention lol.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 04, 2021, 09:32:41 AM
I find it difficult to rank among the rest of the albums, because for me it so different, but I adore it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on January 04, 2021, 11:13:40 AM
I got that, but one thing is to say you don’t like it (and that’s completely fine), but another is to say you cannot understand why someone who’s been a DT fan for over 10 years likes it. I could go on on a long-ass post developing why I love TA (I have been there before) but I see no reason to. It’s perfecty fine that you don’t like TA, it’s just your particular wording that got my attention lol.


I just find that the people who have been with the band the longest seem to be the ones who are least likely to think "The Astonishing" is a great album.  I think it's great that it brought some new fans into the fold and it's just my observation that more recent / younger / newer fans seem to appreciate this album more than people who have been with the band since the beginning like me. 


People tend to dislike change and the older you are the more you tend to dislike it and I think that may have at least something to do with it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on January 04, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
Fan since 1992.  While I wouldn't rank it at the top, I love it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 04, 2021, 01:46:45 PM
I'm starting to get a bit long in the tooth, and I love the shit out of change.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 04, 2021, 01:59:44 PM
I got that, but one thing is to say you don’t like it (and that’s completely fine), but another is to say you cannot understand why someone who’s been a DT fan for over 10 years likes it. I could go on on a long-ass post developing why I love TA (I have been there before) but I see no reason to. It’s perfecty fine that you don’t like TA, it’s just your particular wording that got my attention lol.


I just find that the people who have been with the band the longest seem to be the ones who are least likely to think "The Astonishing" is a great album.  I think it's great that it brought some new fans into the fold and it's just my observation that more recent / younger / newer fans seem to appreciate this album more than people who have been with the band since the beginning like me. 


People tend to dislike change and the older you are the more you tend to dislike it and I think that may have at least something to do with it.

The reason why I enjoy it is because of the way it is presented actually. I listen to it as a Broadway play, I can imagine the settings, the characters, the acting, all happening on the stage. And why, I feel, it would've been best presented as a JP project, featuring the music composed by Dream Theater, had JLB be Arhys, Gabriel, or Lord Nefaryus, and had other singers guest for the other characters. But I also know, where is he going to get the funding for that, and what about playing it live.

And this is one major reason, I feel, TA wasn't received as well. Most metal, and casual, listeners of music, do not listen to Broadway or Opera, and most do not know the way Music and Songs are presented in these styles. The Astonishing, is presented as an Opera, hence a Rock Opera.

This is not to be confused with a Concept Album. A concept album, is still presented as your casual music album, the only difference is it has a theme, narrative, or story, presented by the music and lyrics. The music, can have themes spread throughout  and the lyrics can be the only thing carrying on the story/narrative or theme, if the music has no theme.

If JP would've gotten his way and presented it Live first, and had the album available later after the tour, or better yet if possible at the shows. That would've been a cool experiment, as we the fans are putting our trust in the band and are going in with blind faith that the band will present us with a good live show. The experiment here is...Who would buy a ticket for an album, we haven't yet heard as fans, and that show is that album? I definitely would've went and bought a ticket.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on January 04, 2021, 03:11:28 PM
Fan since 1992.  While I wouldn't rank it at the top, I love it.

Fan since 1993.  While I wouldn't rank it at the top, I love it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: MirrorMask on January 04, 2021, 03:28:38 PM
Fan since 1999, I love The Astonishing and I prefer it to Distance Over Time. It was such a fulfilling and rewarding experience. It's not a perfect masterpiece and I never listened to the full thing once I created my own personal edit (skipping some songs and doing little trimmings here and there), but I enjoyed so much all the journey for it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: erwinrafael on January 04, 2021, 05:14:38 PM
Fan since 1996, and I love The Astonishing. I don't view it as a Dream Theater album. Distance Over Time, that is a DT album. TA is a Dream Theater musical, more elaborate than what other bands did with concept albums.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on January 04, 2021, 07:35:27 PM
I've been into DT since 1992 and TA is a top tier album of theirs to me.  I even like it more than Scenes, and that's saying a lot!
I also like d/t as much as TA in it's own way.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on January 05, 2021, 06:53:09 AM
First, so's everyone knows: fan since 1992, big fan - well, moderate fan - of Broadway, and TA is in the bottom quarter as far as albums go.

It's interesting, though; I see a lot of posts that almost seem to want to prove Barry wrong, but I also see a good portion of them that seem to have caveats, exceptions and loopholes to do so. He said "great album". I don't think it's a "great album".  Even though it's in the bottom quarter, it doesn't SUCK (I'll listen to the "worst" of Dream Theater before I'd put on ANY Radiohead), it's just not something I go to very often.  I DO consider it a "Dream Theater" album - it was put out by the band "Dream Theater", after all - but it's not really indicative of the band as a whole.  And all of that is ok; it's okay to not love everything that every band does.  I'm a ride-or-die Kiss fan, but Crazy Crazy Nights - a hit for the band - is a non-starter for me. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 05, 2021, 08:04:24 AM
First, so's everyone knows: fan since 1992, big fan - well, moderate fan - of Broadway, and TA is in the bottom quarter as far as albums go.

It's interesting, though; I see a lot of posts that almost seem to want to prove Barry wrong, but I also see a good portion of them that seem to have caveats, exceptions and loopholes to do so. He said "great album". I don't think it's a "great album".  Even though it's in the bottom quarter, it doesn't SUCK (I'll listen to the "worst" of Dream Theater before I'd put on ANY Radiohead), it's just not something I go to very often.  I DO consider it a "Dream Theater" album - it was put out by the band "Dream Theater", after all - but it's not really indicative of the band as a whole.  And all of that is ok; it's okay to not love everything that every band does.  I'm a ride-or-die Kiss fan, but Crazy Crazy Nights - a hit for the band - is a non-starter for me.

It's not indicative of the band, because it's not meant to be. If you go in expecting that, you'll greatly be disappointed. That's what DT12 is meant to be.

I also, see the reason. Why the band, or JP, wanted to release it under the band name. I mean, why not....I am happy he released it under the Dream Theater name as well though.

Fan since 1996, and I love The Astonishing. I don't view it as a Dream Theater album. Distance Over Time, that is a DT album. TA is a Dream Theater musical, more elaborate than what other bands did with concept albums.

That's the word I was thinking off, but just couldn't think of it.

It is Dream Theater album. The album isn't your run of the mill concept though. It's a musical. Like a Disney movie. That's how I see it. And if you want to know the gritty details, read the book. It's like watching The Little Mermaid Disney Movie, and then reading the actual book and realizing "Holy Shit, Disney really watered this down."

But if you don't like the story, you won't like the album. Because the music is used to show the emotions of the characters and to set the mood of what is happening during that scene. Not the other way around.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on January 05, 2021, 09:23:07 AM
It's interesting, though; I see a lot of posts that almost seem to want to prove Barry wrong, but I also see a good portion of them that seem to have caveats, exceptions and loopholes to do so.

I don't see that at all.  I just see people disagreeing.  What's wrong with that?  I think you are reading something in that isn't there.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on January 05, 2021, 10:45:45 AM
It's all good, I'm controversial!  :rollin
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on January 05, 2021, 11:16:56 AM
It's interesting, though; I see a lot of posts that almost seem to want to prove Barry wrong, but I also see a good portion of them that seem to have caveats, exceptions and loopholes to do so.

I don't see that at all.  I just see people disagreeing.  What's wrong with that?  I think you are reading something in that isn't there.

Wouldn't be the first time!   :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on January 05, 2021, 02:17:27 PM
I'm starting to get a bit long in the tooth, and I love the shit out of change.

Quite. If every DT album sounded like a copy of Images and Words - I wouldn't be a fan.

It must be great being a fan or AC/DC of Motorhead or Slayer. You get pretty much the same album every time.

All of my favourite bands - No two of their albums sound identical.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on January 05, 2021, 03:05:03 PM
I wouldn't want them to make every album sound like "Images & Words," but I'd also prefer that they don't make another "The Astonishing" or "Systematic Chaos"


All bands morph over time, especially as members change.  I would expect nothing less from Dream Theater, but if I'm being 100% honest (and I know this is a bit of a hot take) but I think Mike Portnoy might have been on to something way back when he suggested that Dream Theater needed a bit of a hiatus to recharge the creative juices.  I know he probably had other motives, specifically the gig he seemed to think he was going to get with Avenged Sevenfold that ended up not panning out, but I do think that generally speaking the Mangini era has been rather spotty in terms of overall album quality when you compare it to the Portnoy era albums. 


Now before you all jump down my throat and tell me it's not Mangini's fault, I AGREE!!  It's got nothing to do with Mangini, he's not writing the songs. 


Here's my theory:  Portnoy created a certain type of creative energy that pushed the band one way and Petrucci was kind of the opposing creative force.  When you put them together it's like mixing valium and alcohol.  The effects and relative efficacy of both are enhanced by the presence of the other.  But when you take one side of those opposing forces out of the equation and the songwriting settles into a different rhythm, well, you end up with a little bit less consistency and some of that "magic" or "secret sauce" that made Dream Theater special was diminished by Portnoy's departure. 


It's just a theory but I base it on my own songwriting experience.  My songs were...good.  Nothing really special, until I hooked up with my writing partner.  The push/pull of him and I working together created something that me working alone or him working alone would never have achieved.  It's why I like to allow the musicians I collaborate with to actually modify my songs if they have a good idea.  In fact, I encourage it.  Anyway, I think the reduction in that creative tension has changed the contours of Dream Theater's songs in ways that haven't always resulted in the best output. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on January 05, 2021, 03:09:46 PM
I don't think any of the Mangini albums touch the best ones they did with Portnoy (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT), and I doubt the band will come close to that overall level of greatness on a complete album again, but I do think all are upgrades from a songwriting standpoint over the last two with Portnoy. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: MirrorMask on January 05, 2021, 03:35:32 PM
I don't think any of the Mangini albums touch the best ones they did with Portnoy (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT), and I doubt the band will come close to that overall level of greatness on a complete album again, but I do think all are upgrades from a songwriting standpoint over the last two with Portnoy.

Yeah, it's kinda like they hit a plateau, maybe not of absolutely amazing greatness, but surely of damn solid consistency, and that's more than many other bands so "late" in their carrer can claim.

I'm so curious about the next record, they never really made the same album twice and with Mangini they surely can't play for the third time the "shorter and heavier album" card which could be a veeeeery loose term for both the self titled and d/t.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 05, 2021, 03:37:22 PM
I don't think any of the Mangini albums touch the best ones they did with Portnoy (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT), and I doubt the band will come close to that overall level of greatness on a complete album again, but I do think all are upgrades from a songwriting standpoint over the last two with Portnoy.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Trav86 on January 05, 2021, 05:57:25 PM
I think the Mangini albums all kind of stay in the same lane (The Astonishing to a lesser degree) and are of fairly consistent quality. The last four Portnoy albums were more peaks and valleys. Which makes it difficult for me to compare. The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on January 05, 2021, 06:59:26 PM
I think the Mangini albums all kind of stay in the same lane (The Astonishing to a lesser degree) and are of fairly consistent quality. The last four Portnoy albums were more peaks and valleys. Which makes it difficult for me to compare. The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.

That's a good way to put it. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Trav86 on January 05, 2021, 07:38:46 PM
With that said, I would like to add this. Breaking All Illusions is a Top 10 DT song, for me. I’ve never made a Top 25 but if I were to, I’m sure Barstool Warrior would make it. The band seems to be very proud of Distance Over Time, and they should be! This many albums and years into their career and they’re still making excellent music and seem to be very happy about it. As a fan of over 20 years, I couldn’t be happier or more proud of these guys.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Mark Levinson Jr. on January 05, 2021, 07:57:23 PM
I'm so impressed with how well this album translated to getting played live. Mangini sounds and plays the DOT stuff so nicely on Distant Memories, it has made me revisit the studio album again.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on January 06, 2021, 06:37:41 AM
I'm also glad that apart from Illumination Theory - they've mostly dropped the compulsory 20 minute song per album.

Also - fully agree that whilst no mangini album is up there with Scenes or Octavarium or Six Degrees - none of them are down there with Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 06, 2021, 07:25:44 AM
The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.
I don't know.  For me, anyway, Illumination Theory is a worthy addition to the list of epics.  Lesser than Octavarium and A Change of Seasons, to be sure, but still awesome.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on January 06, 2021, 07:30:13 AM
Here's my theory:  Portnoy created a certain type of creative energy that pushed the band one way and Petrucci was kind of the opposing creative force.  When you put them together it's like mixing valium and alcohol.  The effects and relative efficacy of both are enhanced by the presence of the other.  But when you take one side of those opposing forces out of the equation and the songwriting settles into a different rhythm, well, you end up with a little bit less consistency and some of that "magic" or "secret sauce" that made Dream Theater special was diminished by Portnoy's departure. 


It's just a theory but I base it on my own songwriting experience.  My songs were...good.  Nothing really special, until I hooked up with my writing partner.  The push/pull of him and I working together created something that me working alone or him working alone would never have achieved.  It's why I like to allow the musicians I collaborate with to actually modify my songs if they have a good idea.  In fact, I encourage it.  Anyway, I think the reduction in that creative tension has changed the contours of Dream Theater's songs in ways that haven't always resulted in the best output.

I'm a BIG fan of this theory; I call it "the clubhouse" (a sports term about the attitude of the team back in the locker room).  There are countless examples of this; Jagger/Richards.   Page/Plant (he's one of the greatest guitar players of all time, but seems to be a lost foundling without Robert Plant). There's no denying that the Lennon/McCartney numbers benefited from having both those men in the studio at the same time.  I've long said that even though Iommi holds the name and is on all the records, there is no Black Sabbath without Geezer Butler.   

The idea that bands all have to be best friends and love-y dove-y is crap; but it's the rare talent (Bruce, Dylan) that can survive in a vacuum.   Even the great Eddie Van Halen needed a partner in crime; some of the solo stuff, while amazing guitar playing, is... slight without a Dave, or Sam, or (later) Wolfgang to sort of whip it into shape.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Dublagent66 on January 06, 2021, 07:44:41 AM
Still the best out of the last 3 albums.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 06, 2021, 08:13:24 AM
Here's my theory:  Portnoy created a certain type of creative energy that pushed the band one way and Petrucci was kind of the opposing creative force.  When you put them together it's like mixing valium and alcohol.  The effects and relative efficacy of both are enhanced by the presence of the other.  But when you take one side of those opposing forces out of the equation and the songwriting settles into a different rhythm, well, you end up with a little bit less consistency and some of that "magic" or "secret sauce" that made Dream Theater special was diminished by Portnoy's departure. 


It's just a theory but I base it on my own songwriting experience.  My songs were...good.  Nothing really special, until I hooked up with my writing partner.  The push/pull of him and I working together created something that me working alone or him working alone would never have achieved.  It's why I like to allow the musicians I collaborate with to actually modify my songs if they have a good idea.  In fact, I encourage it.  Anyway, I think the reduction in that creative tension has changed the contours of Dream Theater's songs in ways that haven't always resulted in the best output.

I'm a BIG fan of this theory; I call it "the clubhouse" (a sports term about the attitude of the team back in the locker room).  There are countless examples of this; Jagger/Richards.   Page/Plant (he's one of the greatest guitar players of all time, but seems to be a lost foundling without Robert Plant). There's no denying that the Lennon/McCartney numbers benefited from having both those men in the studio at the same time.  I've long said that even though Iommi holds the name and is on all the records, there is no Black Sabbath without Geezer Butler.   

The idea that bands all have to be best friends and love-y dove-y is crap; but it's the rare talent (Bruce, Dylan) that can survive in a vacuum.   Even the great Eddie Van Halen needed a partner in crime; some of the solo stuff, while amazing guitar playing, is... slight without a Dave, or Sam, or (later) Wolfgang to sort of whip it into shape.

That's called Chemistry. Some people have great chemistry and others do not, and sometimes that chemistry can wane and that spark is lost.

But, in all, if you don't get along together at all. Your band will never be a touring band, and a lot of situations can happen off stage and behind the scenes. Remember, these guys have to live with each other, in a tight confined space, for how many months.

Wouldn't that be tensions? Tensions between people that can arise.

But yeah, then there are those bands that are record label made and tour and then you end up with the next album from that project has  different lineup. Because one member said, fuck this shit...
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Trav86 on January 06, 2021, 08:23:30 AM
The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.
I don't know.  For me, anyway, Illumination Theory is a worthy addition to the list of epics.  Lesser than Octavarium and A Change of Seasons, to be sure, but still awesome.

I agree with this.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: geeeemo on January 06, 2021, 11:27:37 AM
The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.
I don't know.  For me, anyway, Illumination Theory is a worthy addition to the list of epics.  Lesser than Octavarium and A Change of Seasons, to be sure, but still awesome.

I agree with this.


Well, I like all those mentioned, even Prophets of War. And I am not at all tired of the long 20 minute songs.  I want another. I don't really make playlists, but made one. DT epics. It's my favorite.  What I think is funny is the different commnetary on long songs/shorter songs.  "Don't care for the wankery" "I love the conciseness of d/t". But then Change of Seasons and Octavarium are continually in the top songs with plenty of wankery.  People love Erotomania. That's one long wank. (not a long song, but just wank). Or In the Name of God, kind of repetitive at the end.  But loved.  Dream Theater is wankery.  If all their music were liked d/t it wouldn't be Dream Theater.  When I first started listening 5 years ago (wow that went quick), it took me a bit to like the "wankery". Maybe I don't even love it, but I love the songs that include it.. I don't know, maybe its that the music continues telling the story, or it's creating the anticipation for the next cool section. 

So, with d/t.  I listen to it less, but whenever it comes on I love it. I do wish PBD were longer. The melodies on BW, FitL and AWE are so emotional. S2N has some great guitar grooves and crescendos. Frankly, they could have made them all longer, and I would be happy.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on January 06, 2021, 12:53:33 PM
Here's my theory:  Portnoy created a certain type of creative energy that pushed the band one way and Petrucci was kind of the opposing creative force.  When you put them together it's like mixing valium and alcohol.  The effects and relative efficacy of both are enhanced by the presence of the other.  But when you take one side of those opposing forces out of the equation and the songwriting settles into a different rhythm, well, you end up with a little bit less consistency and some of that "magic" or "secret sauce" that made Dream Theater special was diminished by Portnoy's departure. 


It's just a theory but I base it on my own songwriting experience.  My songs were...good.  Nothing really special, until I hooked up with my writing partner.  The push/pull of him and I working together created something that me working alone or him working alone would never have achieved.  It's why I like to allow the musicians I collaborate with to actually modify my songs if they have a good idea.  In fact, I encourage it.  Anyway, I think the reduction in that creative tension has changed the contours of Dream Theater's songs in ways that haven't always resulted in the best output.

I'm a BIG fan of this theory; I call it "the clubhouse" (a sports term about the attitude of the team back in the locker room).  There are countless examples of this; Jagger/Richards.   Page/Plant (he's one of the greatest guitar players of all time, but seems to be a lost foundling without Robert Plant). There's no denying that the Lennon/McCartney numbers benefited from having both those men in the studio at the same time.  I've long said that even though Iommi holds the name and is on all the records, there is no Black Sabbath without Geezer Butler.   

The idea that bands all have to be best friends and love-y dove-y is crap; but it's the rare talent (Bruce, Dylan) that can survive in a vacuum.   Even the great Eddie Van Halen needed a partner in crime; some of the solo stuff, while amazing guitar playing, is... slight without a Dave, or Sam, or (later) Wolfgang to sort of whip it into shape.

That's called Chemistry. Some people have great chemistry and others do not, and sometimes that chemistry can wane and that spark is lost.

But, in all, if you don't get along together at all. Your band will never be a touring band, and a lot of situations can happen off stage and behind the scenes. Remember, these guys have to live with each other, in a tight confined space, for how many months.

Wouldn't that be tensions? Tensions between people that can arise.

But yeah, then there are those bands that are record label made and tour and then you end up with the next album from that project has  different lineup. Because one member said, fuck this shit...

That's patently false, though, Ben.    Jagger and Richards.   Motley Crue.   Aerosmith (someone here I think it was, mentioned that he had inside information that Perry and Tyler rarely speak to each other outside of music).   Anderson and Howe.   Gillan and Blackmore.   I think it's a myth that bands have to be like Rush, best buds and brothers in arms. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on January 06, 2021, 03:54:16 PM
True.  I can't recall specifics, but didn't Queen fight like cats and dogs for much of their career? And they had a helluva 20-year run with the four before Freddie's untimely passing.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on January 06, 2021, 04:09:35 PM
Still the best out of the last 3 albums.

Yup.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: erwinrafael on January 06, 2021, 04:21:58 PM
The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.
I don't know.  For me, anyway, Illumination Theory is a worthy addition to the list of epics.  Lesser than Octavarium and A Change of Seasons, to be sure, but still awesome.

I agree with this.


Well, I like all those mentioned, even Prophets of War. And I am not at all tired of the long 20 minute songs.  I want another. I don't really make playlists, but made one. DT epics. It's my favorite.  What I think is funny is the different commnetary on long songs/shorter songs.  "Don't care for the wankery" "I love the conciseness of d/t". But then Change of Seasons and Octavarium are continually in the top songs with plenty of wankery.  People love Erotomania. That's one long wank. (not a long song, but just wank). Or In the Name of God, kind of repetitive at the end.  But loved.  Dream Theater is wankery.  If all their music were liked d/t it wouldn't be Dream Theater.  When I first started listening 5 years ago (wow that went quick), it took me a bit to like the "wankery". Maybe I don't even love it, but I love the songs that include it.. I don't know, maybe its that the music continues telling the story, or it's creating the anticipation for the next cool section. 

So, with d/t.  I listen to it less, but whenever it comes on I love it. I do wish PBD were longer. The melodies on BW, FitL and AWE are so emotional. S2N has some great guitar grooves and crescendos. Frankly, they could have made them all longer, and I would be happy.  :biggrin:

When the music continues to tell the story, that is not wankery. Wankery is when the music goes on and on but in the context of the narrative of the song, it does not really add much to the "story." For me, Dream Theater fell into a wank phase from Train of Thought to Black Clouds. Instrumental virtuosity became a crutch, an easy way to write music but when you go beyond the facade of technical virtuosity, you don't really find many good songs under a lot of the wank. The wank is impressive to watch live (like TDEN, ANTR) but listening to many of the music from that era closely wIth good earphones just before bedtime, it becomes apparent that there is not much of a song in there.

I always see DT12 as the band deciding to let go of the crutch of wank and try to focus first on the essence of the song they were writing. Even the long instrumental sections of Illumination Theory are bound to the song's narrative.

D/T is a further refinement of this approach. The structure is tight, the instrumental virtuosity does not stray from the core of a song.

I think DT will still write longer songs in the future but I expect it won't be bloat or wankery.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Volante99 on January 06, 2021, 06:27:05 PM
I’m not sure about creative tension but Portnoy and Petrucci have undeniable chemistry. It’s like they finish each other’s musical “sentences”. Hearing them back together on JP’s solo album just felt right. They were born to play together.

There is definitely an energy missing from the Mangini albums, BUT, I don’t really put that blame on Mangini. I remember listening to the latest Dream Theater album for the first time, excited to take a musical journey with interesting twists and turns, you never really knew what was going to happen next in a DT song. While I do agree a lot of “wankery” and musical self indulgence came with that, it was at least exciting. I haven’t really felt that way about a DT album since ADToE.

DT12 didn’t have “it”, D/T didn’t have it either. Astonishing for all the hate it gets had about 20-30 minutes of interesting, what I would call “old school DT” music buried deep in 2 hours of...not so good stuff.


Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: erwinrafael on January 06, 2021, 06:42:17 PM
I don't know. At Wit's End and Barstool Warrior are so perfrctly composed as musical journeys that I can't see how anybody can say there is a lack of musical journeys in this album.

Can somebody say honestly that when they heard the beginning of AWE the first time, they predicted that the song would end with that soaring dramatic guitar solo?
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Trav86 on January 06, 2021, 06:55:02 PM
I’m not sure about creative tension but Portnoy and Petrucci have undeniable chemistry. It’s like they finish each other’s musical “sentences”. Hearing them back together on JP’s solo album just felt right. They were born to play together.

There is definitely an energy missing from the Mangini albums, BUT, I don’t really put that blame on Mangini. I remember listening to the latest Dream Theater album for the first time, excited to take a musical journey with interesting twists and turns, you never really knew what was going to happen next in a DT song. While I do agree a lot of “wankery” and musical self indulgence came with that, it was at least exciting. I haven’t really felt that way about a DT album since ADToE.

DT12 didn’t have “it”, D/T didn’t have it either. Astonishing for all the hate it gets had about 20-30 minutes of interesting, what I would call “old school DT” music buried deep in 2 hours of...not so good stuff.

This.  There is a magic to the classic DT albums that just isn't there anymore.  ADTOE is close. Its like they were attempting to recapture it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: gzarruk on January 06, 2021, 07:26:15 PM
Lots of interesting discussion points here.

I really love it when DT songs take you on a musical journey, something like TCOT, TGD, LTL, etc. Most of the recent songs don't quite have *that* factor in them, and I do miss that. Their songwriting is so tight and song-oriented now that I sometimes leave feeling like I needed MORE. However, there's also the self indulgent wank fest tangent they liked to artificially insert into their songs for a while (TMOLS, for example, while I really like it, is one of the biggest examples of this), and it didn't always work well.
To me, it feels like their post-ADTOE output became so focused in NOT doing long songs (Illumination Theory being the exception) that they sacrificed not only the unnecessary bloat, but some of that classic DT feel with it.

Having said that, I completely love the MM era albums and think they're definitely much more consistent in quality than their previous (mid to late 2000s) albums, and I'm hoping DT15 marks the return of their longer songs format, but working for the song, like ADTOE.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: erwinrafael on January 06, 2021, 08:50:52 PM
If you think about it, I&W and Awake do not really have long songs with crazy instrumentals. The wankfest is really just Metropolis Pt. 1, and that is what made that song special to me at that time. That it is a wankfest that stood out and not all of the songs in the album are as crazy instrumentally.

The problem with me during the Train of Thought to BC&SL era was almost every song was trying to become a wankfest. DT12 was a drastic turnaround sacrificing the instrumental virtuosity that we became accustomed to, but D/T was a step towards finding that balance again. FITL, BW, S2N, and AWE for me were exemplars of that balance.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 06, 2021, 08:57:14 PM
Here's my theory:  Portnoy created a certain type of creative energy that pushed the band one way and Petrucci was kind of the opposing creative force.  When you put them together it's like mixing valium and alcohol.  The effects and relative efficacy of both are enhanced by the presence of the other.  But when you take one side of those opposing forces out of the equation and the songwriting settles into a different rhythm, well, you end up with a little bit less consistency and some of that "magic" or "secret sauce" that made Dream Theater special was diminished by Portnoy's departure. 


It's just a theory but I base it on my own songwriting experience.  My songs were...good.  Nothing really special, until I hooked up with my writing partner.  The push/pull of him and I working together created something that me working alone or him working alone would never have achieved.  It's why I like to allow the musicians I collaborate with to actually modify my songs if they have a good idea.  In fact, I encourage it.  Anyway, I think the reduction in that creative tension has changed the contours of Dream Theater's songs in ways that haven't always resulted in the best output.

I'm a BIG fan of this theory; I call it "the clubhouse" (a sports term about the attitude of the team back in the locker room).  There are countless examples of this; Jagger/Richards.   Page/Plant (he's one of the greatest guitar players of all time, but seems to be a lost foundling without Robert Plant). There's no denying that the Lennon/McCartney numbers benefited from having both those men in the studio at the same time.  I've long said that even though Iommi holds the name and is on all the records, there is no Black Sabbath without Geezer Butler.   

The idea that bands all have to be best friends and love-y dove-y is crap; but it's the rare talent (Bruce, Dylan) that can survive in a vacuum.   Even the great Eddie Van Halen needed a partner in crime; some of the solo stuff, while amazing guitar playing, is... slight without a Dave, or Sam, or (later) Wolfgang to sort of whip it into shape.

That's called Chemistry. Some people have great chemistry and others do not, and sometimes that chemistry can wane and that spark is lost.

But, in all, if you don't get along together at all. Your band will never be a touring band, and a lot of situations can happen off stage and behind the scenes. Remember, these guys have to live with each other, in a tight confined space, for how many months.

Wouldn't that be tensions? Tensions between people that can arise.

But yeah, then there are those bands that are record label made and tour and then you end up with the next album from that project has  different lineup. Because one member said, fuck this shit...

That's patently false, though, Ben.    Jagger and Richards.   Motley Crue.   Aerosmith (someone here I think it was, mentioned that he had inside information that Perry and Tyler rarely speak to each other outside of music).   Anderson and Howe.   Gillan and Blackmore.   I think it's a myth that bands have to be like Rush, best buds and brothers in arms.

I agree with you. That all bands don't have to be lovey dovey.

What I mean is. Bands have members that can start out as friends, or maybe, just get along together enough to recognize, they should tolerate the bullshit, because what they have with the band is big and would be a wasted opportunity not to. They recognize the chemistry they have there that's brewing.

As the band gets bigger, and you made a name for yourself. You can eventually, leave that bullshit, and say I am gone, and start a solo career. Can't think of examples now, but I am sure there are members that have left the band, once gaining a name for themselves.

I mean, you can see the tension in those members sometimes being reflected in the shows. I say sometimes, because they won't show they're not having a good time playing on stage. But, when you've had enough of the bullshit, you say screw it, and pull a Blackmore performance like he gives on Come Hell or High Water (https://youtu.be/Y2qZJ3BHzjY).



Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on January 06, 2021, 09:02:08 PM
If you think about it, I&W and Awake do not really have long songs with crazy instrumentals. The wankfest is really just Metropolis Pt. 1, and that is what made that song special to me at that time. That it is a wankfest that stood out and not all of the songs in the album are as crazy instrumentally.

The problem with me during the Train of Thought to BC&SL era was almost every song was trying to become a wankfest. DT12 was a drastic turnaround sacrificing the instrumental virtuosity that we became accustomed to, but D/T was a step towards finding that balance again. FITL, BW, S2N, and AWE for me were exemplars of that balance.

Well said. I think it is also noteworthy that the Metropolis instrumental section totally fits the song and flows so well with the rest of the song.  It felt like quite a few of the longer instrumental sections in the 00's were just dropped into the song as an excuse to have it in there regardless of whether it really fit with the regular part of the song (if you know what I mean).  *cough* The Ministry of Lost Souls *cough*
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on January 07, 2021, 12:56:18 AM
When you think about a band like Rush, they went in a completely different direction every album especially since Moving Pictures onward.  They didn't return to the long songs all the way up until Clockwork Angel's which is their only full length concept album btw.
 Dream Theater has changed to a degree but nothing like Rush did over the years. I mean Rush sounded like a different band from one decade to the next, whereas DT stayed true to their sound.  I think Distance Over Time is a great balance of good song writing and musical chops all in one. It's kind of like Permanent Waves, and Pale Blue Dot is their Natural Science lyrically and musically....  WWRD??   :coolio
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: MirrorMask on January 07, 2021, 06:00:52 AM
If you think about it, I&W and Awake do not really have long songs with crazy instrumentals. The wankfest is really just Metropolis Pt. 1, and that is what made that song special to me at that time. That it is a wankfest that stood out and not all of the songs in the album are as crazy instrumentally.

The problem with me during the Train of Thought to BC&SL era was almost every song was trying to become a wankfest. DT12 was a drastic turnaround sacrificing the instrumental virtuosity that we became accustomed to, but D/T was a step towards finding that balance again. FITL, BW, S2N, and AWE for me were exemplars of that balance.

Well said. I think it is also noteworthy that the Metropolis instrumental section totally fits the song and flows so well with the rest of the song.  It felt like quite a few of the longer instrumental sections in the 00's were just dropped into the song as an excuse to have it in there regardless of whether it really fit with the regular part of the song (if you know what I mean).  *cough* The Ministry of Lost Souls *cough*

I agree 100% and this is basically the only thing about DT's entire carrer that I dislike.

As crazy and outlandish the solo section of Metropolis is, it's a journey through the mood of the song and I guess I could hum my way through most of it. Play me a random snippet from any of the solo sections you mentioned of the latter Portnoy years, and I would have a very hard time to recognize which song is which.

I believe those solo sections were written in LTE mode.... "we need a solo section, how should we contruct it?" "eh, let's jam a bit like we used to do with LTE".... and the first 5 minutes of the jam become the solo section.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on January 07, 2021, 06:54:18 AM
When you think about a band like Rush, they went in a completely different direction every album especially since Moving Pictures onward.  They didn't return to the long songs all the way up until Clockwork Angel's which is their only full length concept album btw.
 Dream Theater has changed to a degree but nothing like Rush did over the years. I mean Rush sounded like a different band from one decade to the next, whereas DT stayed true to their sound.  I think Distance Over Time is a great balance of good song writing and musical chops all in one. It's kind of like Permanent Waves, and Pale Blue Dot is their Natural Science lyrically and musically....  WWRD??   :coolio

I'm as big a Rush fan as most here, but with a few exceptions, that's slightly overstating the degree of change.  Granted, GUP sounds little like Fly By Night, but it's not like each album was careening through a series of styles.  The Sector box sets are on to something in terms of the cohesiveness of what's in them.

And - and I'm not saying this to you but as a general comment - the concept of the "long songs" here is baffling to me.   I can remember when Flying Colors came out, and Mike published the titles and times, and there were multiple posts about how "great" Infinite Fire and Blue Ocean would be, unheard!, based solely on the time stamp of the song.   I had to drive an hour each way yesterday and used that time to listen to SC and BC&SL.   Honestly, the one thing that set it apart for me wasn't the wankery, wasn't the length of the songs, it was simply that it sounded so generic.  The growly vocals, the quasi-metal interludes with token blast beats and low string chugging... FOR ME, it's the first time inspiration corner - where the band took outside influences and incorporated them into their own world - slipped into mimicry, and the influences BECAME the world.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: emtee on January 07, 2021, 07:00:04 AM
I felt it was on 8V, when MP'S world was so impacted by Muse. I mean, he even had JLB sing in the same way on one song. The album is loved by most though, so there's that.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Trav86 on January 07, 2021, 07:19:22 AM
As controversial as this may be...the “drop a random instrumental section in the song” style, started with Scenes. It got worse with every album, then got significantly better with ADTOE. It has gotten better with each album since.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Dublagent66 on January 07, 2021, 07:37:38 AM
Can somebody say honestly that when they heard the beginning of AWE the first time, they predicted that the song would end with that soaring dramatic guitar solo?

Not in a million years, because DT songs hardly ever end with soaring dramatic solos.  :lol

Seriously, something like that can't be predicted, but when it happens, it's not surprising.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 07, 2021, 07:40:35 AM
When you think about a band like Rush, they went in a completely different direction every album especially since Moving Pictures onward.  They didn't return to the long songs all the way up until Clockwork Angel's which is their only full length concept album btw.
 Dream Theater has changed to a degree but nothing like Rush did over the years. I mean Rush sounded like a different band from one decade to the next, whereas DT stayed true to their sound.  I think Distance Over Time is a great balance of good song writing and musical chops all in one. It's kind of like Permanent Waves, and Pale Blue Dot is their Natural Science lyrically and musically....  WWRD??   :coolio

I'm as big a Rush fan as most here, but with a few exceptions, that's slightly overstating the degree of change.  Granted, GUP sounds little like Fly By Night, but it's not like each album was careening through a series of styles.  The Sector box sets are on to something in terms of the cohesiveness of what's in them.

And - and I'm not saying this to you but as a general comment - the concept of the "long songs" here is baffling to me.   I can remember when Flying Colors came out, and Mike published the titles and times, and there were multiple posts about how "great" Infinite Fire and Blue Ocean would be, unheard!, based solely on the time stamp of the song.   I had to drive an hour each way yesterday and used that time to listen to SC and BC&SL.   Honestly, the one thing that set it apart for me wasn't the wankery, wasn't the length of the songs, it was simply that it sounded so generic.  The growly vocals, the quasi-metal interludes with token blast beats and low string chugging... FOR ME, it's the first time inspiration corner - where the band took outside influences and incorporated them into their own world - slipped into mimicry, and the influences BECAME the world.

Don't forget about Forsaken being a love story about a Vampire, and to me, sounding like a mix between Evanescence and the rhythm to Static-X Cold.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on January 07, 2021, 09:00:17 AM
You're right Ben. When I first heard Forsaken my initial thought was Evanescence.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on January 07, 2021, 09:14:53 AM
When you think about a band like Rush, they went in a completely different direction every album especially since Moving Pictures onward.  They didn't return to the long songs all the way up until Clockwork Angel's which is their only full length concept album btw.
 Dream Theater has changed to a degree but nothing like Rush did over the years. I mean Rush sounded like a different band from one decade to the next, whereas DT stayed true to their sound.  I think Distance Over Time is a great balance of good song writing and musical chops all in one. It's kind of like Permanent Waves, and Pale Blue Dot is their Natural Science lyrically and musically....  WWRD??   :coolio

I'm as big a Rush fan as most here, but with a few exceptions, that's slightly overstating the degree of change.  Granted, GUP sounds little like Fly By Night, but it's not like each album was careening through a series of styles.  The Sector box sets are on to something in terms of the cohesiveness of what's in them.

???   I can't hear any similarities between GUP and FBN whatsoever.  I'm interested to know what you are hearing.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hunnus2000 on January 07, 2021, 09:55:11 AM
When you think about a band like Rush, they went in a completely different direction every album especially since Moving Pictures onward.  They didn't return to the long songs all the way up until Clockwork Angel's which is their only full length concept album btw.
 Dream Theater has changed to a degree but nothing like Rush did over the years. I mean Rush sounded like a different band from one decade to the next, whereas DT stayed true to their sound.  I think Distance Over Time is a great balance of good song writing and musical chops all in one. It's kind of like Permanent Waves, and Pale Blue Dot is their Natural Science lyrically and musically....  WWRD??   :coolio

I'm as big a Rush fan as most here, but with a few exceptions, that's slightly overstating the degree of change.  Granted, GUP sounds little like Fly By Night, but it's not like each album was careening through a series of styles.  The Sector box sets are on to something in terms of the cohesiveness of what's in them.

???   I can't hear any similarities between GUP and FBN whatsoever.  I'm interested to know what you are hearing.

I got the impression that he was trying to GUP sounds nothing (little) FBN. As opposed "sounds a little like".
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on January 07, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
Whoa, I think your right.  That went right over my head.   :justjen
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: gzarruk on January 07, 2021, 10:59:37 AM
When you think about a band like Rush, they went in a completely different direction every album especially since Moving Pictures onward.  They didn't return to the long songs all the way up until Clockwork Angel's which is their only full length concept album btw.
 Dream Theater has changed to a degree but nothing like Rush did over the years. I mean Rush sounded like a different band from one decade to the next, whereas DT stayed true to their sound.  I think Distance Over Time is a great balance of good song writing and musical chops all in one. It's kind of like Permanent Waves, and Pale Blue Dot is their Natural Science lyrically and musically....  WWRD??   :coolio

I'm as big a Rush fan as most here, but with a few exceptions, that's slightly overstating the degree of change.  Granted, GUP sounds little like Fly By Night, but it's not like each album was careening through a series of styles.  The Sector box sets are on to something in terms of the cohesiveness of what's in them.

And - and I'm not saying this to you but as a general comment - the concept of the "long songs" here is baffling to me.   I can remember when Flying Colors came out, and Mike published the titles and times, and there were multiple posts about how "great" Infinite Fire and Blue Ocean would be, unheard!, based solely on the time stamp of the song.   I had to drive an hour each way yesterday and used that time to listen to SC and BC&SL.   Honestly, the one thing that set it apart for me wasn't the wankery, wasn't the length of the songs, it was simply that it sounded so generic.  The growly vocals, the quasi-metal interludes with token blast beats and low string chugging... FOR ME, it's the first time inspiration corner - where the band took outside influences and incorporated them into their own world - slipped into mimicry, and the influences BECAME the world.

Don't forget about Forsaken being a love story about a Vampire, and to me, sounding like a mix between Evanescence and the rhythm to Static-X Cold.

I don't own and haven't read Lifting Shadows yet, but I read somewhere online that Mike P said in the book (which was also written around the SC/BC&SL period) that he wanted a different kind of singer for DT, and the direction they were taking, and that "they only kept James around because fans seemed to like him somehow". I don't know if this was the exact thing he said or not, but still a pretty bad thing to say, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 07, 2021, 12:22:08 PM
He didn't really say that. Not that what he said was much better. He essentially said, "if we were picking a singer today, james would probably not be the guy but to the fans he's the voice of dream theater."
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: erwinrafael on January 07, 2021, 03:31:09 PM
Good thing we got James as he is one hell of a lyricist.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2021, 07:02:38 AM
When you think about a band like Rush, they went in a completely different direction every album especially since Moving Pictures onward.  They didn't return to the long songs all the way up until Clockwork Angel's which is their only full length concept album btw.
 Dream Theater has changed to a degree but nothing like Rush did over the years. I mean Rush sounded like a different band from one decade to the next, whereas DT stayed true to their sound.  I think Distance Over Time is a great balance of good song writing and musical chops all in one. It's kind of like Permanent Waves, and Pale Blue Dot is their Natural Science lyrically and musically....  WWRD??   :coolio

I'm as big a Rush fan as most here, but with a few exceptions, that's slightly overstating the degree of change.  Granted, GUP sounds little like Fly By Night, but it's not like each album was careening through a series of styles.  The Sector box sets are on to something in terms of the cohesiveness of what's in them.

???   I can't hear any similarities between GUP and FBN whatsoever.  I'm interested to know what you are hearing.

No, you hear right.   I was trying to say (and may have missed a word) that Grace Under Pressure doesn't sound anything like Fly By Night.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 14, 2021, 02:07:17 PM
I am watching this Interview with JP and JLB about Distance Over Time, and something caught my ear.

https://youtu.be/ilIFuCe7TuY?t=1078

They are talking about signing the record contract during Images and Words. JP says how they stupidly made the mistake of signing a long record contract, which ended up being 8 albums. And that they never got dropped by the label. and laughed when JLB said "It's like...LET US GO!!!"

Damn, so they were bound by that contract until they recorded Systematic Chaos. No wonder why that album making of looked like they were having the time of their lives. Because they were free.... :lol :lol




Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on January 24, 2021, 08:48:49 AM
Safest Dream Theater album in their entire catalog, for better or worse.
A couple of nuggets, mainly the last 3 songs, not counting the bonus track, and Barstool Warrior.
Otherwise, to me its the Mangini era version of Systematic Chaos, but even SC had some surprises.
This album also really showed JLB's age, and I'd rather he go back to the pre-Mangini, dry sound he had on the earlier recordings. He's soaked in effects now.
When the bonus track is the most interesting song, you have to wonder who's steering the ship, if anyone.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 24, 2021, 09:22:31 AM
Safest Dream Theater album in their entire catalog, for better or worse.
A couple of nuggets, mainly the last 3 songs, not counting the bonus track, and Barstool Warrior.
Otherwise, to me its the Mangini era version of Systematic Chaos, but even SC had some surprises.
This album also really showed JLB's age, and I'd rather he go back to the pre-Mangini, dry sound he had on the earlier recordings. He's soaked in effects now.
When the bonus track is the most interesting song, you have to wonder who's steering the ship, if anyone.

How is this a safe Dream Theater album?
What are these nuggets?
James LaBrie was likely the one who chose to be soaked in effects. He always has used effects, the effects he is using this time are just more noticeable in the mix, and I think they work well with the music.
The Bonus Track is an interesting song because it's something they jammed for fun, and then just said screw, let's record this. It's why JP felt to also include the ending they did for At Wit's End during the live rehearsal for the song, and just loved how it all turned out, and it couldn't be replicated again, so he took that recording and added it to the end.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on January 24, 2021, 09:36:47 AM
I think it was safe in that they by their own admission went for the more classic DT sound than anything else on most of the record, probably as a result of the divisive reaction to The Astonishing, but it was cool to get something like Viper King as a bonus track. I'd love to see them do a record of mostly short catchy songs like Viper King and Our New World.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on January 24, 2021, 09:53:53 AM
Safest Dream Theater album in their entire catalog, for better or worse.
A couple of nuggets, mainly the last 3 songs, not counting the bonus track, and Barstool Warrior.
Otherwise, to me its the Mangini era version of Systematic Chaos, but even SC had some surprises.
This album also really showed JLB's age, and I'd rather he go back to the pre-Mangini, dry sound he had on the earlier recordings. He's soaked in effects now.
When the bonus track is the most interesting song, you have to wonder who's steering the ship, if anyone.

How is this a safe Dream Theater album?
What are these nuggets?
James LaBrie was likely the one who chose to be soaked in effects. He always has used effects, the effects he is using this time are just more noticeable in the mix, and I think they work well with the music.
The Bonus Track is an interesting song because it's something they jammed for fun, and then just said screw, let's record this. It's why JP felt to also include the ending they did for At Wit's End during the live rehearsal for the song, and just loved how it all turned out, and it couldn't be replicated again, so he took that recording and added it to the end.

Safe because they stuck to shorter, concise writing (for them), most of the songs have a generally standard pop structure. They did not allow for any longer instrumental sections, and they upped the old school metal in their sound again, at the detriment of the prog, likely because of mixed reactions to The Astonishing. At least when they upped the metal on Train of Thought it was progressive, in the sense that they were pushing their metal sound forward, as opposed to ripping of Dave Mustaine and James Hetfield's riff styles as they have done from SC to DoT, or trying to sound more like modern acts. When DT get heavy these days, it still sounds like they're trying to stay hip and current within the metal framework, so I don't know why people think that that stopped happening when Portnoy left the band. All they did when MP left was bring back more melodic/major key stuff, which was already happening on BC&SL anyway, on The Best of Times and Count of Tuscany.

I meant nuggets as in "classic tunes among not-so classic songs", not nuggets like on Octavarium or other Portnoy era albums.

Viper King is an example of doing something different, but still cool, something I think the band has earned the right to do. Some say that is what The Astonishing is, and well, OK, but I didn't care for that particular approach, so I'd like to see the band try something else, not take a step back and play it safe. They kind of did the same thing with ADTOE, when you think about it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 24, 2021, 10:01:58 AM
I think it was safe in that they by their own admission went for the more classic DT sound than anything else on most of the record, probably as a result of the divisive reaction to The Astonishing, but it was cool to get something like Viper King as a bonus track. I'd love to see them do a record of mostly short catchy songs like Viper King and Our New World.


D/T to me is an album that shows great progression from the Self-Titled, which was their last album where they showed growth in experimenting and "not playing it safe". Since, The Astonishing was a massive concept, it was not going to be a next step evolution of the Self-Titled. Instead of creating new sounds, and even, experimenting with new sounds and ideas, they used their knowledge to create a concept and used their musical knowledge to create music that would go with that concept.


They could go in with that Idea in mind (short catchy songs), but you may not end up enjoying the end product. That's the risk we take with our expectations for every new album by a band. And why, I don't bother expecting anything. I go based off what they say in the press releases, and still don't expect anything, I can have an idea, but I won't have it in my mind that they will fulfill my expectations, if they do than that is just amazing.

People, right off the bat, hear a band is doing a new album and instantly go to their expectations, or more, the dream album they wish their favorite band would make. "I hope it sounds like this, I hope it's not like this".

Not having any expectations, allows me to enjoy an album by a band, when they "play it safe", or go into the extreme experiment realm and is entirely different than the sound they've come to be known for, I.E. Steven Wilson - The Future Bites, and Pain of Salvation - Panther for experimental, and Transatlantic for the "play it safe", it's sound is still easily recognizable as Transatlantic.


Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 24, 2021, 10:07:46 AM
Safest Dream Theater album in their entire catalog, for better or worse.
A couple of nuggets, mainly the last 3 songs, not counting the bonus track, and Barstool Warrior.
Otherwise, to me its the Mangini era version of Systematic Chaos, but even SC had some surprises.
This album also really showed JLB's age, and I'd rather he go back to the pre-Mangini, dry sound he had on the earlier recordings. He's soaked in effects now.
When the bonus track is the most interesting song, you have to wonder who's steering the ship, if anyone.

How is this a safe Dream Theater album?
What are these nuggets?
James LaBrie was likely the one who chose to be soaked in effects. He always has used effects, the effects he is using this time are just more noticeable in the mix, and I think they work well with the music.
The Bonus Track is an interesting song because it's something they jammed for fun, and then just said screw, let's record this. It's why JP felt to also include the ending they did for At Wit's End during the live rehearsal for the song, and just loved how it all turned out, and it couldn't be replicated again, so he took that recording and added it to the end.

Safe because they stuck to shorter, concise writing (for them), most of the songs have a generally standard pop structure. They did not allow for any longer instrumental sections, and they upped the old school metal in their sound again, at the detriment of the prog, likely because of mixed reactions to The Astonishing. At least when they upped the metal on Train of Thought it was progressive, in the sense that they were pushing their metal sound forward, as opposed to ripping of Dave Mustaine and James Hetfield's riff styles as they have done from SC to DoT, or trying to sound more like modern acts. When DT get heavy these days, it still sounds like they're trying to stay hip and current within the metal framework, so I don't know why people think that that stopped happening when Portnoy left the band. All they did when MP left was bring back more melodic/major key stuff, which was already happening on BC&SL anyway, on The Best of Times and Count of Tuscany.

I meant nuggets as in "classic tunes among not-so classic songs", not nuggets like on Octavarium or other Portnoy era albums.

Viper King is an example of doing something different, but still cool, something I think the band has earned the right to do. Some say that is what The Astonishing is, and well, OK, but I didn't care for that particular approach, so I'd like to see the band try something else, not take a step back and play it safe. They kind of did the same thing with ADTOE, when you think about it.

The vocals during a certain verse in This Dying Soul, is totally not a Dave Mustaine rip-off and is them pushing their metal sound foward.  :lol

As I said in my latest post here...They could do something different and try something else, but as you said with The Astonishing, it could end up that "You won't care for the particular approach". So what expectations must the band fulfill for you?

Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on January 24, 2021, 10:26:12 AM
Sure you'll hear some influences on ToT, but the album as a whole is a bit of a departure from the albums that came before and since, I would never confuse a post-ToT heavy song with a song from ToT, both because the style and recording itself is so drastically unique compared to anything else in the DT catalog. This was mostly dropped on Octavarium, and instead of playing it safe, they released a varied album where each song had it's own identity musically, while also being a themed album.

With or without Portnoy, since SC, the albums have all been samey (with the exception of Black Clouds & Silver Linings, it's a flawed album, but quite diverse.)

I'd rather see them try something else that is different or new for them post-Astonishing, instead of playing it safe because some fans might have been turned off by TA, as I explained with ToT / Octavarium.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 24, 2021, 10:53:46 AM
Sure you'll hear some influences on ToT, but the album as a whole is a bit of a departure from the albums that came before and since, I would never confuse a post-ToT heavy song with a song from ToT, both because the style and recording itself is so drastically unique compared to anything else in the DT catalog. This was mostly dropped on Octavarium, and instead of playing it safe, they released a varied album where each song had it's own identity musically, while also being a themed album.

With or without Portnoy, since SC, the albums have all been samey (with the exception of Black Clouds & Silver Linings, it's a flawed album, but quite diverse.)

I'd rather see them try something else that is different or new for them post-Astonishing, instead of playing it safe because some fans might have been turned off by TA, as I explained with ToT / Octavarium.

I would too, like to see them do something so drastic of change that it'll alienate the fans again.  :biggrin:

But, I see it this way. The band has found a style that they all gel in, and they feel like staying in and exploring it, rather than dipping their toes in it, feeling it's warm and relaxing and even therapeutic, and then getting pulled out and moving on to the next one. And I feel they did that with their Self-Titled album. That is the album that truly defined the present day Dream Theater sound and style.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on January 24, 2021, 11:15:23 AM
I get what you're saying, but that is a recent trend of wanting to stay within certain confines. It doesn't matter if the music is fast, slow, heavy, ballad, everything in the Mangini era has this general feel and mood and it's generally cold and serious, which is opposite to most of DT's first 8 or so albums, where there was a sense of fun and adventure, while showcasing many moods and emotions. As I said I think SC started that, but it's been a gradual shift, as I said, BC&SL was still plenty diverse.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I get what you're saying, but that is a recent trend of wanting to stay within certain confines. It doesn't matter if the music is fast, slow, heavy, ballad, everything in the Mangini era has this general feel and mood and it's generally cold and serious, which is opposite to most of DT's first 8 or so albums, where there was a sense of fun and adventure, while showcasing many moods and emotions. As I said I think SC started that, but it's been a gradual shift, as I said, BC&SL was still plenty diverse.

And maybe, the band likes basking in that Cold and Serious mood and feel.

I don't know but, S2N has a sense of fun.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: geeeemo on January 24, 2021, 03:07:08 PM
S2N needs to be played live. :metal It totally sounds like a live song.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on January 24, 2021, 03:51:54 PM
S2N needs to be played live. :metal It totally sounds like a live song.

And EVERYBODY in the audience needs to yell "Wow!" at the appropriate moment.

As far as the other discussion, I just don't know what to say in response to the opinion that everything sounds "cold" and the "fun and adventure" are missing.  I don't get that at all.  Not even a little bit. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: axeman90210 on January 24, 2021, 03:58:26 PM
For me, looking at the Mangini era and setting The Astonishing aside:

- I find ADTOE to be wildly uneven. Breaking All Illusions is still the best song they've put out since Portnoy left and an overall top 10 DT song for me. There's some other really strong material, but also plenty of very meh/forgettable stuff on there.

- XII in contrast is much more even to me, but just consistently decent. No real high points.

- D/T manages to thread the difference of the two. There aren't any tracks that I feel tempted to skip, and while Barstool Warrior doesn't quite match BAI, the rest of my Mangini era top 5 might well come from this album. Barstool is probably a top 15 DT track for me and I hold a few other songs in quite high regard as well.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on January 25, 2021, 02:16:53 AM
I get what you're saying, but that is a recent trend of wanting to stay within certain confines. It doesn't matter if the music is fast, slow, heavy, ballad, everything in the Mangini era has this general feel and mood and it's generally cold and serious, which is opposite to most of DT's first 8 or so albums, where there was a sense of fun and adventure, while showcasing many moods and emotions. As I said I think SC started that, but it's been a gradual shift, as I said, BC&SL was still plenty diverse.

And maybe, the band likes basking in that Cold and Serious mood and feel.

I don't know but, S2N has a sense of fun.
Oh, and Viper King is really cold and serious..
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Architeuthis on January 25, 2021, 02:22:58 AM
S2N needs to be played live. :metal It totally sounds like a live song.
Heck Yeah,  I'd take that way over Untethered Angel and Paralyzed.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on January 25, 2021, 07:30:44 AM
I get what you're saying, but that is a recent trend of wanting to stay within certain confines. It doesn't matter if the music is fast, slow, heavy, ballad, everything in the Mangini era has this general feel and mood and it's generally cold and serious, which is opposite to most of DT's first 8 or so albums, where there was a sense of fun and adventure, while showcasing many moods and emotions. As I said I think SC started that, but it's been a gradual shift, as I said, BC&SL was still plenty diverse.

And maybe, the band likes basking in that Cold and Serious mood and feel.

I don't know but, S2N has a sense of fun.
Oh, and Viper King is really cold and serious..

See, that's the irony. The one song that is not cold and serious is relegated to being a bonus track. I never said cold and serious is a bad thing, though, but it's the rule, not the exception these days in DT's music.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 25, 2021, 08:22:42 AM
I get what you're saying, but that is a recent trend of wanting to stay within certain confines. It doesn't matter if the music is fast, slow, heavy, ballad, everything in the Mangini era has this general feel and mood and it's generally cold and serious, which is opposite to most of DT's first 8 or so albums, where there was a sense of fun and adventure, while showcasing many moods and emotions. As I said I think SC started that, but it's been a gradual shift, as I said, BC&SL was still plenty diverse.

And maybe, the band likes basking in that Cold and Serious mood and feel.

I don't know but, S2N has a sense of fun.
Oh, and Viper King is really cold and serious..

See, that's the irony. The one song that is not cold and serious is relegated to being a bonus track. I never said cold and serious is a bad thing, though, but it's the rule, not the exception these days in DT's music.

What do you mean by cold and serious?
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 27, 2021, 10:36:20 AM
DARK MASTER WITHIN I WILL FIGHT FOR YOU
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: geeeemo on January 27, 2021, 10:48:21 AM
I think I like cold and serious. For me happy and fun isn't usually what I want from metal or rock.  But that is just me.  :angry:

Dark Master is a top 3!
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 27, 2021, 11:20:50 AM
I think I like cold and serious. For me happy and fun isn't usually what I want from metal or rock.  But that is just me.  :angry:

Dark Master is a top 3!

Happy and Fun in Metal is fantastic, and energetic as all hell....Power Metal is this very definition of Fun and Happy in metal, but it's more Energetic and Uplifting. It's the anthem to Triumph.

Prog Rock, like Yes and Genesis, is usually melodic and use happy melodies, reminds me of Bob Ross and his happy little trees.  :lol

Basically, Dream Theater uses the Metal Tone, in the guitars, bass, and drums. And adds in the Melodicness of Prog Rock, with the Keyboards. More so back then, as Kevin Moore, used a lot of those happy sounding tones. Until the next album, where he said, I am just using these tones, and no other tones. Now Awake, is the album I would consider to have that Cold and Serious sound.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on January 27, 2021, 11:43:07 AM
I think I like cold and serious. For me happy and fun isn't usually what I want from metal or rock.  But that is just me.  :angry:

Dark Master is a top 3!

Nothing you listen to makes you wish you were in a convertable screaming down the highway at 65 mph with the top down?   :)
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: geeeemo on January 27, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
I think I like cold and serious. For me happy and fun isn't usually what I want from metal or rock.  But that is just me.  :angry:

Dark Master is a top 3!

Nothing you listen to makes you wish you were in a convertable screaming down the highway at 65 mph with the top down?   :)

For me it is some sort of rebelliousness. It's safe rebellion. So, the music that gets my juices flowing is the edgier harder, or emotive where I can "get it out". I love to go screaming down the highway with that. Especially in spring. Those first few warm sunny days. My old favorite was...Roadhouse Blues by the Doors.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on January 27, 2021, 06:03:33 PM
I think I like cold and serious. For me happy and fun isn't usually what I want from metal or rock.  But that is just me.  :angry:

Dark Master is a top 3!

Happy and Fun in Metal is fantastic, and energetic as all hell....Power Metal is this very definition of Fun and Happy in metal, but it's more Energetic and Uplifting. It's the anthem to Triumph.

Prog Rock, like Yes and Genesis, is usually melodic and use happy melodies, reminds me of Bob Ross and his happy little trees.  :lol

Basically, Dream Theater uses the Metal Tone, in the guitars, bass, and drums. And adds in the Melodicness of Prog Rock, with the Keyboards. More so back then, as Kevin Moore, used a lot of those happy sounding tones. Until the next album, where he said, I am just using these tones, and no other tones. Now Awake, is the album I would consider to have that Cold and Serious sound.

In some ways this is what I was getting at. I got into Dream Theater after already being into metal and rock music. They were more of a gateway band into the progressive and jazz world for me, but what kept me coming back years after getting into them as a teenager, was their approach of mixing metal with progressive and a bit of soloing. Now cut out most of the long soloing, they stick to the dark, serious tone to everything, but its not what I liked about Dream Theater in the first place.

Awake was a harder edged album, compared to what came before, but aside from a couple of songs, they weren't cold and serious, but had many moments of fun and moments of optimism among the darkness, and of course they were still heavy prog mode, too. I don't really see the band being cold and serious until Systematic Chaos... but BC&SL showed us that it was not to be that way, but then Portnoy left. DT12 was, to me, the biggest offender of this cold and serious approach, and part of it is the production.

In contrast, Train of Thought is not cold and serious, not even Vacant, while serious, is a beautiful melody. Train of Thought is kick ass. Metallica's 80s albums are heavy and riff laden, but I wouldn't call the music cold and serious, it is kick ass.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: nobloodyname on January 27, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
I've been nodding along in agreement with several of your posts but I think you've lost me here. Awake (one of my bottom three DT albums) I'd say is incredibly "cold and serious". I'd add detached and aloof to that, too. None of that is inherently bad, it's just how I perceive the album. But! I'd also describe it as suffocating and oppressive.

Train of Thought, which is one of my top three DT albums, I'd absolutely describe as "cold and serious" but I don't find it "suffocating and oppressive".

 It's incredible how albums can such an effect on us and how we can also arrive at such different viewpoints.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on January 28, 2021, 05:54:16 AM
I think I like cold and serious. For me happy and fun isn't usually what I want from metal or rock.  But that is just me.  :angry:

Dark Master is a top 3!

Nothing you listen to makes you wish you were in a convertable screaming down the highway at 65 mph with the top down?   :)

For me it is some sort of rebelliousness. It's safe rebellion. So, the music that gets my juices flowing is the edgier harder, or emotive where I can "get it out". I love to go screaming down the highway with that. Especially in spring. Those first few warm sunny days. My old favorite was...Roadhouse Blues by the Doors.

I love that time of year.   Aerosmith or the Stones are good choices (for me) for those days.   
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: TAC on January 28, 2021, 06:21:33 AM
My convertible music would be Accept.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on January 28, 2021, 01:11:27 PM
In contrast, Train of Thought is not cold and serious


The first song is basically a fuck you to other musicians who have slagged Dream Theater
The next one is about the horrors of alcoholism
The third track is all about making sacrifices even when you don't want to
The fourth track is pretty much a fuck you to Mike Portnoy's stepfather, who was apparently an emotionally abusive prick
Vacant is very sad
Stream of Consciousness is a minor-key instrumental
In The Name of God is a screed against Islamic Terrorism


I'm not sure they could make a more cold and serious album if they tried? 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 28, 2021, 01:43:35 PM
In contrast, Train of Thought is not cold and serious


The first song is basically a fuck you to other musicians who have slagged Dream Theater
The next one is about the horrors of alcoholism
The third track is all about making sacrifices even when you don't want to
The fourth track is pretty much a fuck you to Mike Portnoy's stepfather, who was apparently an emotionally abusive prick
Vacant is very sad
Stream of Consciousness is a minor-key instrumental
In The Name of God is a screed against Islamic Terrorism


I'm not sure they could make a more cold and serious album if they tried?
Agreed.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 28, 2021, 02:13:02 PM
In contrast, Train of Thought is not cold and serious


The first song is basically a fuck you to other musicians who have slagged Dream Theater
The next one is about the horrors of alcoholism
The third track is all about making sacrifices even when you don't want to
The fourth track is pretty much a fuck you to Mike Portnoy's stepfather, who was apparently an emotionally abusive prick
Vacant is very sad
Stream of Consciousness is a minor-key instrumental
In The Name of God is a screed against Islamic Terrorism


I'm not sure they could make a more cold and serious album if they tried?
Agreed.
They can, and they did IMHO. And especially musically and technically speaking. (More technically complicated, colder, more sterile, cleaner execution) Just saying.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 28, 2021, 02:23:52 PM
In contrast, Train of Thought is not cold and serious


The first song is basically a fuck you to other musicians who have slagged Dream Theater
The next one is about the horrors of alcoholism
The third track is all about making sacrifices even when you don't want to
The fourth track is pretty much a fuck you to Mike Portnoy's stepfather, who was apparently an emotionally abusive prick
Vacant is very sad
Stream of Consciousness is a minor-key instrumental
In The Name of God is a screed against Islamic Terrorism


I'm not sure they could make a more cold and serious album if they tried?
Agreed.
They can, and they did IMHO. And especially musically and technically speaking. (More technically complicated, colder, more sterile, cleaner execution) Just saying.
If you say so.  But you're an emotionless brainiac, so what do you know?


It's telling, of course, that kirk's opinion, with which I agreed, definitely took into account the lyrics, while your opinion apparently does not.  To which album are you referring?
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on January 28, 2021, 02:27:05 PM
I agree with "they can."  Of course they can/could.  But "they did?"  Which album?  ???  Although KNH is slightly off on a couple of his takes of what the songs are about, his general point is pretty spot on.  Which album is more "cold and serious" than TOT?
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 28, 2021, 02:31:36 PM
I agree with "they can."  Of course they can/could.  But "they did?"  Which album?  ???  Although KNH is slightly off on a couple of his takes of what the songs are about, his general point is pretty spot on.  Which album is more "cold and serious" than TOT?
Maybe Six Degrees.  Because of JP's hair.

??
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 28, 2021, 02:34:37 PM
I agree with "they can."  Of course they can/could.  But "they did?"  Which album?  ???  Although KNH is slightly off on a couple of his takes of what the songs are about, his general point is pretty spot on.  Which album is more "cold and serious" than TOT?
Well, IMHO, any Mangini era album could be described as that, but I was going for the general sound of DT12 as an example, because as far as I remember, the sound of DT12 had been descibed as being sterile and cold. And IMHO again, DT12 and ADTOE feature some of the most difficult sections in a DT piece to date. (during Outcry and Illumination Theory), far harder than Portnoy era DT. But these are just my quarters and dimes.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 28, 2021, 02:35:07 PM
I agree with "they can."  Of course they can/could.  But "they did?"  Which album?  ???  Although KNH is slightly off on a couple of his takes of what the songs are about, his general point is pretty spot on.  Which album is more "cold and serious" than TOT?
Maybe Six Degrees.  Because of JP's hair.

??

 :rollin :rollin Thanks for the laughs.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 28, 2021, 02:41:49 PM
I agree with "they can."  Of course they can/could.  But "they did?"  Which album?  ???  Although KNH is slightly off on a couple of his takes of what the songs are about, his general point is pretty spot on.  Which album is more "cold and serious" than TOT?
Well, IMHO, any Mangini era album could be described as that, but I was going for the general sound of DT12 as an example, because as far as I remember, the sound of DT12 had been descibed as being sterile and cold. And IMHO again, DT12 and ADTOE feature some of the most difficult sections in a DT piece to date. (during Outcry and Illumination Theory), far harder than Portnoy era DT. But these are just my quarters and dimes.

I think you're talking about something entirely different than what the others are talking about. When you say "cold and serious", you're talking about the apparent "sterility" of DT12 soundwise, I think? That falls 100% in the realm of subjectivity and interpretation, whereas they are talking about the music in Train of Thought to be thematically darker which is basically not something so debatable as it's closer to a fact than an opinion.

Also, I really can't see how a challenging instrumental section would translate as something "cold and serious". Not trying to be a prick, but I think the perspectives you are offering, although incredibly valid of course, are far off from the point of the conversation.  :D
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 28, 2021, 02:53:26 PM
I don't disagree with the point about the darkness of the lyrical subject matter. That, I'm sure is the case on Train Of Thought. Musically though, not entirely sure. Still an interesting result of what seemed to be challenging times for the band. (and back to D/T, some of the heaviness of TOT, and the relative speed of the writing process) definitely carried over to D/T in some ways IMHO.

Btw: The tour for Train Of Thought was the last DT tour I attended while MP was in the band. After having attended both the 6D and Met2 tours, boy what a contrast it was, to say the least. The mood of the tour was dark to me back then too (as was TOT itself, emotionally speaking.)
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: JRuless on January 29, 2021, 12:27:52 AM

Btw: The tour for Train Of Thought was the last DT tour I attended while MP was in the band. After having attended both the 6D and Met2 tours, boy what a contrast it was, to say the least. The mood of the tour was dark to me back then too (as was TOT itself, emotionally speaking.)

I agree! Look at LaB, the whole stage setting has a dark mood. Its very simple too. I like it! The look and feel of Portnoys equipment was impressive with the heavy trainheads
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on January 30, 2021, 08:36:30 PM
To me they're doing their best Metallica meets Pantera played by Dream Theater on Train of Thought, and to me I don't see it as dark or cold, but aggressive and energetic, the riffs on ToT... JP is the riff master on that album compared to Mangini era JP. I always think of the basic chugga chugga main riff of The Enemy Inside as the most stock riff of modern DT. Which is why I'm surprised at his new album and the new LTE single, he's still got that in him. Jordan's keys over the last few albums also sound more serious, and dark, than in the 00s.

As for Awake, aside from The Mirror which is really just aggressive, I don't find the darker moments dark, as much as sad. They have a sad, longing feeling to them, it's in the keys. The album, along with IaW, is also of its time, that post-80s, early-mid 90s feel that is present in most popular music of the time period (early/mid 80s-1994). I don't feel that from modern DT albums, for the most part. The only dark song they did prior to Systematic Chaos is Disappear.

BTW this is all based on the music. I don't really put too much weight on lyrical content in DT's music, and I also don't find DT's music very dark relative to other music out there.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DoctorAction on January 31, 2021, 02:52:01 AM
I'm not sure about cold and serious. DT are quite an earnest band, for the most part, and always have been. There are almost no all-out joy or jokey songs. Warmth and fun tends to come out in musical style and feels. Eg. Zappa-isms in instrumental breaks, ragtime piano, LITS, Just Let Me Breathe, Viper King, S2N, TDEN, ITPOE.

ToT was clearly an attempt to be dark, and respect for trying something different. It sounded risible to me but I'd say it was serious but not cold.

The MM era does have a slighty more rigid feel, somehow, but I think that's down to a combination of his ability to be so precise and how clean/rigid JP wants the whole production to be.

D/T has remained my go-to DT record since it came out. Has a more fun, energetic feel than any other of their recent records, AFAIC.

Liveliness above rigidity is probably the key emphasis I'd like to see the band pursue at this point. Real groove above click tracks, atmosphere above cleanliness.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 16, 2021, 11:59:56 AM
For me, two years into this one, it's settled in pretty far down my list.  I'd rank the studio albums something like this:


01 - Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence (still the band's creative zenith in my opinion)
02 - Images & Words
03 - Scenes From a Memory
04 - A Dramatic Turn of Events (with better production it might be #2)
05 - Train of Thought
06 - Octavarium
07 - Black Clouds and Silver Linings
08 - Falling Into Infinity
09 - Awake
10 - Systematic Chaos
11 - Dream Theater
12 - Distance over Time
13 - When Dream and Day Unite
14 - The Astonishing
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bluefox4000 on February 17, 2021, 11:03:26 AM
I have to say i had a hard time with this album.  went hot and cold on it.....back and forth on it for so long.

when it came on out i wasn't huge on Paralysed or Untethered Angel. 

but.....the new live album helped with this record a lot.

Songs i love.

Unthered Angel
Fall Into The Light
Barstool Warrior
S2N
At wits end
Viper King (it's bonus but i love it)

ok songs

Out of Reach
Pale Blue Dot (always thought this was a bit over hyped......bit too long for long's sake)

Don't Like

Paralyzed
Room 137

but........This album did grow on me a was WAY harder on it 2 years ago.

Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 17, 2021, 11:36:59 AM
Safest Dream Theater album in their entire catalog, for better or worse.
A couple of nuggets, mainly the last 3 songs, not counting the bonus track, and Barstool Warrior.
Otherwise, to me its the Mangini era version of Systematic Chaos, but even SC had some surprises.
This album also really showed JLB's age, and I'd rather he go back to the pre-Mangini, dry sound he had on the earlier recordings. He's soaked in effects now.
When the bonus track is the most interesting song, you have to wonder who's steering the ship, if anyone.

How is this a safe Dream Theater album?
What are these nuggets?
James LaBrie was likely the one who chose to be soaked in effects. He always has used effects, the effects he is using this time are just more noticeable in the mix, and I think they work well with the music.
The Bonus Track is an interesting song because it's something they jammed for fun, and then just said screw, let's record this. It's why JP felt to also include the ending they did for At Wit's End during the live rehearsal for the song, and just loved how it all turned out, and it couldn't be replicated again, so he took that recording and added it to the end.

Safe because they stuck to shorter, concise writing (for them), most of the songs have a generally standard pop structure. They did not allow for any longer instrumental sections, and they upped the old school metal in their sound again, at the detriment of the prog, likely because of mixed reactions to The Astonishing. At least when they upped the metal on Train of Thought it was progressive, in the sense that they were pushing their metal sound forward, as opposed to ripping of Dave Mustaine and James Hetfield's riff styles as they have done from SC to DoT, or trying to sound more like modern acts. When DT get heavy these days, it still sounds like they're trying to stay hip and current within the metal framework, so I don't know why people think that that stopped happening when Portnoy left the band. All they did when MP left was bring back more melodic/major key stuff, which was already happening on BC&SL anyway, on The Best of Times and Count of Tuscany.

I meant nuggets as in "classic tunes among not-so classic songs", not nuggets like on Octavarium or other Portnoy era albums.

Viper King is an example of doing something different, but still cool, something I think the band has earned the right to do. Some say that is what The Astonishing is, and well, OK, but I didn't care for that particular approach, so I'd like to see the band try something else, not take a step back and play it safe. They kind of did the same thing with ADTOE, when you think about it.


No "kind of" about it if you ask me.  I think ADTOE was an intentional homage to their I&W era style.  The album was even criticized (misguidedly, in my opinion) for being a "duplicate" or "imitation" of I&W, but I don't think it was that at all.  I think the band probably realized that in the last few albums with Portnoy they had drifted pretty far from their most successful style and approach, which most agree is the I&W >> Awake >> SFAM >> SDOIT >> ToT >> Octavarium run of albums.   You could stick ADTOE almost anywhere in between two of those albums and apart from the shitty production values, it would sound perfectly at home in that group.  Nothing they've recorded since then would fit as well, though. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bluefox4000 on February 17, 2021, 12:39:37 PM
Safest Dream Theater album in their entire catalog, for better or worse.
A couple of nuggets, mainly the last 3 songs, not counting the bonus track, and Barstool Warrior.
Otherwise, to me its the Mangini era version of Systematic Chaos, but even SC had some surprises.
This album also really showed JLB's age, and I'd rather he go back to the pre-Mangini, dry sound he had on the earlier recordings. He's soaked in effects now.
When the bonus track is the most interesting song, you have to wonder who's steering the ship, if anyone.

How is this a safe Dream Theater album?
What are these nuggets?
James LaBrie was likely the one who chose to be soaked in effects. He always has used effects, the effects he is using this time are just more noticeable in the mix, and I think they work well with the music.
The Bonus Track is an interesting song because it's something they jammed for fun, and then just said screw, let's record this. It's why JP felt to also include the ending they did for At Wit's End during the live rehearsal for the song, and just loved how it all turned out, and it couldn't be replicated again, so he took that recording and added it to the end.

Safe because they stuck to shorter, concise writing (for them), most of the songs have a generally standard pop structure. They did not allow for any longer instrumental sections, and they upped the old school metal in their sound again, at the detriment of the prog, likely because of mixed reactions to The Astonishing. At least when they upped the metal on Train of Thought it was progressive, in the sense that they were pushing their metal sound forward, as opposed to ripping of Dave Mustaine and James Hetfield's riff styles as they have done from SC to DoT, or trying to sound more like modern acts. When DT get heavy these days, it still sounds like they're trying to stay hip and current within the metal framework, so I don't know why people think that that stopped happening when Portnoy left the band. All they did when MP left was bring back more melodic/major key stuff, which was already happening on BC&SL anyway, on The Best of Times and Count of Tuscany.

I meant nuggets as in "classic tunes among not-so classic songs", not nuggets like on Octavarium or other Portnoy era albums.

Viper King is an example of doing something different, but still cool, something I think the band has earned the right to do. Some say that is what The Astonishing is, and well, OK, but I didn't care for that particular approach, so I'd like to see the band try something else, not take a step back and play it safe. They kind of did the same thing with ADTOE, when you think about it.


No "kind of" about it if you ask me.  I think ADTOE was an intentional homage to their I&W era style.  The album was even criticized (misguidedly, in my opinion) for being a "duplicate" or "imitation" of I&W, but I don't think it was that at all.  I think the band probably realized that in the last few albums with Portnoy they had drifted pretty far from their most successful style and approach, which most agree is the I&W >> Awake >> SFAM >> SDOIT >> ToT >> Octavarium run of albums.   You could stick ADTOE almost anywhere in between two of those albums and apart from the shitty production values, it would sound perfectly at home in that group.  Nothing they've recorded since then would fit as well, though.

say what you want to about ADTOE all of which i agree with, BTW.

but i love it so much more than the last 2 portnoy era albums.

Return to form for me.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Max Kuehnau on February 17, 2021, 12:47:24 PM
Of course, a much needed return to form. Their best to date IMHO. (DT12 as well)
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bluefox4000 on February 17, 2021, 01:05:35 PM
Of course, a much needed return to form. Their best to date IMHO. (DT12 as well)

I adore DT12

top 3 honestly.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hunnus2000 on February 17, 2021, 01:09:01 PM
Of course, a much needed return to form. Their best to date IMHO. (DT12 as well)

I adore DT12

top 3 honestly.

I'm with you Bro! To me, it's everything a DT fan would want. Heavy and melodic.  :metal
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Schurftkut on February 17, 2021, 03:24:04 PM
ADTOE is top 5 DT for me, mix aside
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on February 17, 2021, 04:08:44 PM
ADTOE has dropped a few pegs with me over the years. It's just under cooked in a lot of spots, or overcooked (Outcry for example) and this is the beginning of JLB being noticeably overproduced on the studio albums (to hide declining ability?)

I feel like all the Mangini albums contain great ideas that never get fleshed out often, if at all. Instead we get other ideas, or technical stuff for the sake of it, and thrown together with no purpose behind it (think an album of Ministry of Lost Souls type songs)
Say what you want about SC->BC&SL, but many of these issues began creeping into the band's music on those 2 albums, before MP left, and never went away.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on February 17, 2021, 06:17:29 PM
My ranking of ADTOE has dropped severely in recent years because of how dry and lifeless the production is.  It sounds good for the mellow songs and sections, but the rocking parts sound like the balls were cut off in post-production.  It's a shame cause the songwriting is mostly damn good on that record, and you can tell they were rejuvenated and ready to kick some ass again, but the sound/mix really let its down.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Dedalus on February 18, 2021, 01:47:50 AM
ADTOE is top 5 DT for me, mix aside

I totally agree.

And personally it was an important album for me. Before ADTOE I literally asked myself "why the fuck am I wasting my time with DT?". ADTOE changed my perspective at the time.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Zydar on February 18, 2021, 02:05:50 AM
ADTOE was a big step up for me after SC and BCSL. I guess they needed that "dramatic event" of MP leaving to shake things up.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: lovethedrake on February 18, 2021, 07:39:29 AM
ADTOE is the only DT album I can never make it through all the way.

For me it’s breaking all illusions and one part on lost not forgotten,  the rest is throwaway. 

D/T.... still loving it.   I don’t like Room 137 and don’t love untethered angel but the rest of the album is very good to great.

IMO At Wits End is the closest thing to a top 10 DT song since 6DOIT.

When ADTOE first came out I kind of liked it because it was less metal but it’s aged poorly.  Sounds totally lifeless.

Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on February 18, 2021, 08:56:10 AM
ADTOE is the best album since Octavarium, but doesn't come close to the magic of the band's first 8 albums.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bluefox4000 on February 18, 2021, 09:42:49 AM
All i can say about ADTOE is being a fan since 97.  i really felt the rot setting in with SC and BC&SL.  i cannot like those any less than i already do.

so ADTOE may not be new or ground breaking, but i heard a band able to breathe again.  and too follow that up with DT12 just made me fall in love with DT all over again.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on February 18, 2021, 09:55:34 AM
For me - Distance Over Time fully recaptured the "magic" of the Scenes From A Memory to Octavarium era of Dream Theater.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 18, 2021, 02:56:49 PM
ADTOE is the best album since Octavarium, but doesn't come close to the magic of the band's first 8 albums.
For me, it's easily better than at least 3 of those first 8 (WDADU, FII, and 8VM), as are the other 3 MM albums.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Dedalus on February 18, 2021, 11:29:13 PM
ADTOE is the best album since Octavarium, but doesn't come close to the magic of the band's first 8 albums.
For me, it's easily better than at least 3 of those first 8 (WDADU, FII, and 8VM), as are the other 3 MM albums.

plus ToT.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on February 19, 2021, 09:16:42 AM
Have to go with a hard disagree on that one, minus WDADU. I can listen to 8vm and most of FII any day, whereas I have to psyche myself into listening to most Mangini era DT. TOT is way better than all 4 Mangini albums.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bluefox4000 on February 19, 2021, 10:43:46 AM
I really Don't like WDADU at all.  but starting to Images and hoing all the way to Octavarium.  all gold to me.  the last two portnoy albums i can't stand.  those make me angry, lol

i've loved the Mangini era myself.  taking out TA which is a big steaming pile of mediocrity.  but the rest.

ADTOE-weak production.....but i still i love it.

DT12-ADORE!!!!! since day 1.  it's top 3 DT for me.

DoT-took me a while to come around.  but another great one.  give or take a song or two.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 21, 2021, 05:09:08 AM
Have to go with a hard disagree on that one, minus WDADU. I can listen to 8vm and most of FII any day, whereas I have to psyche myself into listening to most Mangini era DT. TOT is way better than all 4 Mangini albums.


Yeah, I have to agree.  Train of Thought is easily superior to at least 3 of the Mangini era albums. (S/T, The Astonishing and Distance over Time)  I put it on about the same level as ADTOE, which I think is quite a bit more solid than at least 3 and possibly 4 of the Portnoy era albums.  In fact I still find ADTOE to be the best Mangini era album and it's not even close. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on February 22, 2021, 07:55:14 AM
I don't know, I have a soft spot for BC&SL. It has its flaws, but it also has its charms. Same can be said for SC, except I think THAT is the album where they flipped the script and took a detour, never to find their way back to the main route except on the follow-up. The last two songs on BC&SL are some of the best songs musically that they've put out since Octavarium, or ever.
Once Portnoy left, the best moments are still lacking something, seem undercooked, such as on ADTOE or DoT, retreading old ground, such as on ADTOE, DT12, or DoT, or taking a known risk with making the Aladdin & The Return of Jafar's Beauty & The Beast soundtrack, I mean, The Astonishing.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 22, 2021, 01:44:51 PM
I like BC&SL quite a bit.  For the Portnoy era of the group it was a definite step up from what came before it.    Every track on that album is either good or great.   The lyrics to The Count of Tuscany are, um, well, the music is quite good  :)    But other than those lyrics I don't really have any issues with that album. And since I prefer the longer songs I would have been a happy camper if Dream Theater always put at least one or two epics on their albums.  I can't get enough of the epics.  Love all of them, except Illumination Theory which they utterly destroyed by putting that completely out of place classical section in it.  I have no idea WTF they were thinking when they did that.  It ruined an otherwise decent song.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 22, 2021, 02:17:40 PM
I like BC&SL quite a bit.  For the Portnoy era of the group it was a definite step up from what came before it.    Every track on that album is either good or great.   The lyrics to The Count of Tuscany are, um, well, the music is quite good  :)    But other than those lyrics I don't really have any issues with that album. And since I prefer the longer songs I would have been a happy camper if Dream Theater always put at least one or two epics on their albums.  I can't get enough of the epics.  Love all of them, except Illumination Theory which they utterly destroyed by putting that completely out of place classical section in it.  I have no idea WTF they were thinking when they did that.  It ruined an otherwise decent song.

That Instrumental is integral for the overall concept of the song. That instrumental represents the warming Embrace of the Light, it is called "The Embracing Circle" for this reason. It's "The beauty we wish to behold". It's finding the reason for Live, Die, Kill and why it is before The Pursuit of Truth where the reasons for why people Live, Die, Kill are shown, "Mothers for their children, Husbands for their wives," and why they "lay down our lives for the cause"

Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 23, 2021, 01:56:56 PM
You're entitled to your opinion, for me it ruins the song to the point that I never listen to it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: TAC on February 23, 2021, 02:49:04 PM
You're entitled to your opinion, for me it ruins the song to the point that I never listen to it.


I have that part edited out for both the Studio and Fourth Wall version. That middle section is useless, and after the swell version of TCOT, and the Dark Master section of ITPOE, it felt quite formulaic. The first half of IT is amazing, in fact the minute right before that quiet section is so good.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: emtee on February 23, 2021, 03:16:31 PM
I love that section.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hunnus2000 on February 23, 2021, 03:20:28 PM
You guys are absolutely wrong about that section in IT.  :tdwn

That's like saying that the middle section in Rush's The Trees is unnecessary. It's the very essence of prog music!

IT is brilliant!!  :metal :metal :metal
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: geeeemo on February 23, 2021, 03:33:54 PM
I love it too! It is part of the story.  Watch the video illustrating rejection, then acceptance... To really feel the joy in life, you must suffer through the pain...
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bluefox4000 on February 23, 2021, 06:27:09 PM
i've heard it said a lot that the instrumental section ruins IT.  i don't agree in the least but tis life i guess, lol
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: gzarruk on February 23, 2021, 07:12:39 PM
It doesn't "ruin" the song for me, but I have to be in the mood to listen to it. Most times I just skip that section, honestly :lol
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on February 24, 2021, 03:53:20 AM
It doesn't "ruin" the song for me, but I have to be in the mood to listen to it. Most times I just skip that section, honestly :lol
That's exactly how I feel too. The arrangement, the melody is really great but it puts the listener in a different state for longer than necessary and you kind lose interest after that. If it was a little bit shorter maybe that would be better for the flow of the song.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 24, 2021, 09:10:29 AM
It doesn't "ruin" the song for me, but I have to be in the mood to listen to it. Most times I just skip that section, honestly :lol
That's exactly how I feel too. The arrangement, the melody is really great but it puts the listener in a different state for longer than necessary and you kind lose interest after that. If it was a little bit shorter maybe that would be better for the flow of the song.

That says more about the listener than the song. I love that section because it's calm and soothing. And I think it's a nice pace that prepares you for the onslaught of The Pursuit of Truth.

The Embracing Circle, is like that moment where you are considering that question, and I see it as a state of contemplation through music.

How does that section make you feel mood wise?
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on February 24, 2021, 10:26:08 AM
It doesn't "ruin" the song for me, but I have to be in the mood to listen to it. Most times I just skip that section, honestly :lol
That's exactly how I feel too. The arrangement, the melody is really great but it puts the listener in a different state for longer than necessary and you kind lose interest after that. If it was a little bit shorter maybe that would be better for the flow of the song.

That says more about the listener than the song. I love that section because it's calm and soothing. And I think it's a nice pace that prepares you for the onslaught of The Pursuit of Truth.

The Embracing Circle, is like that moment where you are considering that question, and I see it as a state of contemplation through music.

How does that section make you feel mood wise?


Yes and no.  I think what the band was going for was really clever and creative.  The way the structure of the song ties in with the lyrics and overall concept is brilliant.  Intellectually, I get that.  And yet, even knowing that, that section of the song does not have the emotional resonance with me and a lot of other fans that the band was going for.  That isn't necessarily a problem with the song or a problem with the fans.  There is simply a disconnect on an emotional level between the concept and the execution of that concept.  And that's okay.  Art is so subjective that that is bound to happen frequently, even with the most talented artists.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on February 24, 2021, 11:06:49 AM
That says more about the listener than the song. I love that section because it's calm and soothing. And I think it's a nice pace that prepares you for the onslaught of The Pursuit of Truth.

The Embracing Circle, is like that moment where you are considering that question, and I see it as a state of contemplation through music.

How does that section make you feel mood wise?
Mood wise, it's very serene and reflective to me but also kinda sad and hopeful at the end. It does take time to get use to it and honestly I might will, it's just weird to me at least for now!  :P
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 24, 2021, 11:26:30 AM
I listened to it over and over again because I thought I had to be missing something.  Some...context.  I mean if the melody was, say, the vocal melody of the chorus section of "The Looking Glass" or the pre-chorus vocal melody to "Along For The Ride" or some other nugget from earlier in the album, and they cut the duration by about 50% - in other words, if it had a clearer context, I think it probably would have been kind of cool, but as is it just feels like it doesn't belong there.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: geeeemo on February 24, 2021, 11:27:29 AM
It doesn't "ruin" the song for me, but I have to be in the mood to listen to it. Most times I just skip that section, honestly :lol
That's exactly how I feel too. The arrangement, the melody is really great but it puts the listener in a different state for longer than necessary and you kind lose interest after that. If it was a little bit shorter maybe that would be better for the flow of the song.

That says more about the listener than the song. I love that section because it's calm and soothing. And I think it's a nice pace that prepares you for the onslaught of The Pursuit of Truth.

The Embracing Circle, is like that moment where you are considering that question, and I see it as a state of contemplation through music.

How does that section make you feel mood wise?


Yes and no.  I think what the band was going for was really clever and creative.  The way the structure of the song ties in with the lyrics and overall concept is brilliant.  Intellectually, I get that.  And yet, even knowing that, that section of the song does not have the emotional resonance with me and a lot of other fans that the band was going for.  That isn't necessarily a problem with the song or a problem with the fans.  There is simply a disconnect on an emotional level between the concept and the execution of that concept.  And that's okay.  Art is so subjective that that is bound to happen frequently, even with the most talented artists.

At first I would skip the middle.  But then, after listening and understanding the lyrics meaning and giving thought to the whole thing, it changed. (one aspect I love about DT music is that giving thought to the music/lyrics makes the songs better, more interesting) Now, it sets met up emotionally for the 2nd half of the song. The answer, then the proclamation about joy and pain.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: geeeemo on February 24, 2021, 11:30:12 AM
I don't want all of DT music to be easily understood. I want to guess, think, be left with   :justjen or just something I don't understand - which keeps it fresh longer.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on February 24, 2021, 02:04:50 PM
I don't mind the break all that much; it reminds me a bit of the interlude on Awaken, actually.   

I have other problems with the song that I'm not going into right now, since it's tangential to the discussion, as well as potentially opening worm cans.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Dublagent66 on February 24, 2021, 03:17:54 PM
I don't mind the break all that much; it reminds me a bit of the interlude on Awaken, actually.   

I have other problems with the song that I'm not going into right now, since it's tangential to the discussion, as well as potentially opening worm cans.

The break is a beautiful piece of music.  Whether it's too long or misplaced is a matter of opinion I suppose.  Personally, I don't think it fits in with the rest of the song and like you, I have other problems with the song.  Many other problems that I won't get into either.  If certain people find the structure of the song appealing based on lyrics and concept, that's great.  For me, the music must flow and be appealing to my ears and IT just doesn't do that for me.  I guess my expectations were just too high because all of their other long epics are fantastic.  Oh well... :-\
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: gzarruk on February 24, 2021, 04:14:31 PM
Here's hoping DT15 has a great 20+ minute epic that becomes an immediate fan favorite :metal
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on February 24, 2021, 04:45:27 PM
I don't mind the break all that much; it reminds me a bit of the interlude on Awaken, actually.   

I have other problems with the song that I'm not going into right now, since it's tangential to the discussion, as well as potentially opening worm cans.

The break is a beautiful piece of music.  Whether it's too long or misplaced is a matter of opinion I suppose.  Personally, I don't think it fits in with the rest of the song and like you, I have other problems with the song.  Many other problems that I won't get into either.  If certain people find the structure of the song appealing based on lyrics and concept, that's great.  For me, the music must flow and be appealing to my ears and IT just doesn't do that for me.  I guess my expectations were just too high because all of their other long epics are fantastic.  Oh well... :-\

Can you please stop posting perfectly reasonable things?  That isn't helpful to the present pointless argument. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: devieira73 on February 25, 2021, 11:47:53 AM
Just a quick curiosity about Viper King, that I didn't read anywhere before: Jordan Rudess recently did an interview for a brazilian magazine (https://roadiecrew.com/veja-a-nova-revista/) and told that the song started from a MM's riff, that are on the verses (he don't said that, but now I suspect that the very beginning of the song is actually MM showing (and shouting :laugh:) the riff for the band).
Also, nothing new to report about the next album, JR just made a very generic comment about it. He talked more about Distant Memories Live in London.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on February 25, 2021, 11:51:31 AM
now I suspect that the very beginning of the song is actually MM showing (and shouting :laugh:) the riff for the band).

I think it is just James yelling, "Yeah, baby!  Wooo!," or something like that.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: devieira73 on February 25, 2021, 12:24:39 PM
I don't know, but it sounds like MM to me (and like the voice was recorded by the drums's microphones). Anyway, it's the closest from all their voices, from what I remember. But, also it could be James making a fun voice anyway...
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: jonny108 on February 25, 2021, 12:37:59 PM
I'm pretty sure it Mike saying 'Yeah Wizard, wooo". I also saw somewhere recently that MM also wrote the ending riff to S2N.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Mladen on February 25, 2021, 12:48:41 PM
I've always thought that voice was Mangini. It does sound like drum mics caught it.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on April 09, 2021, 08:33:25 PM
Distance Over Time would be a better album if the track order was different. I feel similarly about DT12.

Viper King
S2N
Barstool Warrior
At Wit's End
Out Of Reach
Pale Blue Dot

Drop the rest. A tight, nearly flawless album.

If you must beef up the play time, squeeze Paralyzed in on the 3rd track.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on April 09, 2021, 08:47:54 PM
Nope.  It's just fine as-is.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: NoFred on April 09, 2021, 11:14:54 PM
I could see Out of Reach before AWE, since AWE ends and PBD starts calm enough already. Otherwise I think the order works well.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Enigmachine on April 10, 2021, 02:26:39 AM
Distance Over Time would be a better album if the track order was different. I feel similarly about DT12.

Viper King
S2N
Barstool Warrior
At Wit's End
Out Of Reach
Pale Blue Dot

Drop the rest. A tight, nearly flawless album.

If you must beef up the play time, squeeze Paralyzed in on the 3rd track.

No Untethered Angel or Fall Into the Light, but Viper King as an opener, of all things? Yea I'm going to go with a solid no on that one. Viper King is one of those tracks where, if it was actually officially on there, it'd drag down the album imo. I don't hate it but James sounds... strange on there and it's very off putting. To replace some of the most dynamic and powerful songs on the album with that just feels odd to me. If I had a bone to pick with the album, it'd be with Out of Reach's lyrics but pacing wise, it's pretty much crucial as a break between the two big tracks of the album.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on April 10, 2021, 02:35:37 AM
If I had to make a change to the order of D/T, it'd probably be moving At Wit's End to be the closing track. Pale Blue Dot is cool & all, but I find it a bit anticlimatic as a closer compared to At Wit's End.

Besides that, maybe adding Viper King in between Barstool Warrior & Room 137 would be nice. Viper King being relegated to a bonus track feels like a bit of a missed opportunity & that seems like a good spot to put it.

But these are basically nitpicks. The album flows well as-is.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: MirrorMask on April 10, 2021, 04:03:28 AM
Distance Over Time would be a better album if the track order was different. I feel similarly about DT12.

Viper King
S2N
Barstool Warrior
At Wit's End
Out Of Reach
Pale Blue Dot

Drop the rest. A tight, nearly flawless album.

If you must beef up the play time, squeeze Paralyzed in on the 3rd track.

A big no on this. An album like this is too unbalanced, short, and without a "hit" for lack of a better word.

It's fine for you and anyone else to make a shortened playlist with the songs you actually like, but an album with this tracklist would have bombed.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DoctorAction on April 10, 2021, 10:47:34 AM
It's still an album I've got pretty much no problems with as it is. Great stuff.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on April 10, 2021, 11:31:17 AM
Distance Over Time would be a better album if the track order was different. I feel similarly about DT12.

Viper King
S2N
Barstool Warrior
At Wit's End
Out Of Reach
Pale Blue Dot

Drop the rest. A tight, nearly flawless album.

If you must beef up the play time, squeeze Paralyzed in on the 3rd track.

A big no on this. An album like this is too unbalanced, short, and without a "hit" for lack of a better word.

It's fine for you and anyone else to make a shortened playlist with the songs you actually like, but an album with this tracklist would have bombed.

That's what I mean about Paralyzed. It's the closest to a 'hit' single on the album and beefs up the album run time. None of the other tracks feel like album openers to me, Viper King is totally an album opener, but it's relegated to bonus track status when it's the most badass song they've released in over a decade. I think Untethered Angel is one of the worst album openers in the DT canon, but as a song it's alright, it's just nothing spectacular either. FITL is another Metallica rip off song, and the main riff is so jagged, it doesn't feel like it flows well most of the time, and the middle section is just The Unforgiven IV. I don't like Room 137, bottom 10 DT song for me.

The positive is that I feel like the other stuff is some of their strongest material in the post-Portnoy era, and hopefully things trend in a good direction on DT15.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on April 10, 2021, 12:10:16 PM
Distance Over Time would be a better album if the track order was different. I feel similarly about DT12.

Viper King
S2N
Barstool Warrior
At Wit's End
Out Of Reach
Pale Blue Dot

Drop the rest. A tight, nearly flawless album.

If you must beef up the play time, squeeze Paralyzed in on the 3rd track.

A big no on this. An album like this is too unbalanced, short, and without a "hit" for lack of a better word.

It's fine for you and anyone else to make a shortened playlist with the songs you actually like, but an album with this tracklist would have bombed.

That's what I mean about Paralyzed. It's the closest to a 'hit' single on the album and beefs up the album run time. None of the other tracks feel like album openers to me, Viper King is totally an album opener, but it's relegated to bonus track status when it's the most badass song they've released in over a decade. I think Untethered Angel is one of the worst album openers in the DT canon, but as a song it's alright, it's just nothing spectacular either. FITL is another Metallica rip off song, and the main riff is so jagged, it doesn't feel like it flows well most of the time, and the middle section is just The Unforgiven IV. I don't like Room 137, bottom 10 DT song for me.

The positive is that I feel like the other stuff is some of their strongest material in the post-Portnoy era, and hopefully things trend in a good direction on DT15.

Thing is, Viper King is a song, that they just decided...Why not record this, it's fun riff and has a great energy to it. It wasn't meant to be on the album proper. As it doesn't have the same mood, style, and vibe of the rest of the album. But, hey they still liked it enough to, at least, include the song.
 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Enigmachine on April 10, 2021, 01:00:20 PM
How Viper King is somehow an appropriate opener but Untethered Angel isn't is beyond me. Maybe as an album opener for Deep Purple or something (if it didn't have downtuned 7 string riffs of course), but to open a Dream Theater album with a lighthearted 4 minute song about car go fast rather than one that hits right in the centre of the album's overall vibe would be pretty silly. Say what you will about the song (I happen to really like UA), but one can pretty easily see why they instantly decided it was the opener when they wrote it because it builds the momentum, has all the signature elements of the band and is highly immediate and dramatic. I second the idea that an album ordered like this would've bombed, because the tonal dissonance would've been incredibly jarring for DT.

As for FitL, I don't see how it's anything like Metallica other than maybe the intro riff and the mid-section. The actual core of the song just sounds like uptempo DT.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Setlist Scotty on April 10, 2021, 05:38:06 PM
As for FitL, I don't see how it's anything like Metallica other than maybe the intro riff and the mid-section. The actual core of the song just sounds like uptempo DT.
To my ears, that intro riff is was more 80s era Megadeth than Metallica. The part that starts at 0:34 is a little more Metallica and the mellow section is very much influenced by the mellow section of Master of Puppets. But other than that, yeah, no real Metallica influence whatsoever.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on April 11, 2021, 07:32:48 AM
None of the other tracks feel like album openers to me
That's a good point regarding this album but I think it helped the live version of Untethered Angel when they skipped the acoustic intro. It grabs your attention more instantly and it does what a solid opener should do.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on April 11, 2021, 08:54:11 AM
To my ears, that intro riff is was more 80s era Megadeth than Metallica.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.  ;)
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on April 11, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
As for FitL, I don't see how it's anything like Metallica other than maybe the intro riff and the mid-section. The actual core of the song just sounds like uptempo DT.
To my ears, that intro riff is was more 80s era Megadeth than Metallica. The part that starts at 0:34 is a little more Metallica and the mellow section is very much influenced by the mellow section of Master of Puppets. But other than that, yeah, no real Metallica influence whatsoever.

I hear more of an Unforgiven influence. It's like they made the Chorus to Unforgiven, a power anthem. The guitar tones are similar to me, and I hear that more than Master of Puppets.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Trav86 on April 12, 2021, 09:05:12 AM
I’m never really in the mood to listen to it much these days. When I do, it doesn't blow me away as it did two years ago.  Barstool Warrior and At Wit’s End are great songs.
I think it's a better album than the two that came before it. It's a “better” album than WDADU but I think I enjoy WDADU more.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on April 12, 2021, 10:00:21 AM
Had to log some serious miles for work last week, so this was one of many albums I was able to revisit at appropriately ludicrous volume, and it was a good reminder that this is a really, REALLY solid album.  Changing anything on it just wouldn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: ReaperKK on April 12, 2021, 10:34:36 AM
I just listened to it again for first time in a few months. Fantastic album.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on April 12, 2021, 11:00:55 AM
Had to log some serious miles for work last week, so this was one of many albums I was able to revisit at appropriately ludicrous volume, and it was a good reminder that this is a really, REALLY solid album.  Changing anything on it just wouldn't make any sense.

It really is...The tracks flow great into each other. Although I don't really prefer the first 3 tracks. They have a place in the album. They're still good songs, and great live.

For me the album really kicks off at Barstool Warrior.

But, now Its been quite awhile. The ending to At Wit's End could've been introduced a bit earlier, it has a bit too much silence between the ending of the song and the special raw ending. If it was like a couple seconds shorter, it'd work fine with the pacing. I think this is what messes with the flow for some people.

Out of Reach is great as well. It's a nice power ballad that I would love to hear live someday. Maybe a one-two punch of this and Surrender To Reason.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: MirrorMask on April 13, 2021, 08:03:42 AM
But, now Its been quite awhile. The ending to At Wit's End could've been introduced a bit earlier, it has a bit too much silence between the ending of the song and the special raw ending. If it was like a couple seconds shorter, it'd work fine with the pacing. I think this is what messes with the flow for some people.

Indeed, I think it would have been better if it was a gradual transition from the "full" version into the raw, demo ending, a crossfade basically. I remember editing it that way for my own compilations.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on April 13, 2021, 08:24:59 AM
But, now Its been quite awhile. The ending to At Wit's End could've been introduced a bit earlier, it has a bit too much silence between the ending of the song and the special raw ending. If it was like a couple seconds shorter, it'd work fine with the pacing. I think this is what messes with the flow for some people.

Indeed, I think it would have been better if it was a gradual transition from the "full" version into the raw, demo ending, a crossfade basically. I remember editing it that way for my own compilations.

Yup, it ruins flows of my playlists too. I do that to songs that have these extended outros. I did that with Illumination Theory, I took out the "easter egg" ending.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on April 16, 2021, 12:42:39 AM
I like the length of D/T. Not every album has to fill up the CD.

Also i'm glad there was no 15+ minute song at the end as i'm really bored of those too. IMO they haven't done a truly GREAT song over 15 minutes since Octavarium.

The Count Of Tuscany comes closest but it's still nowhere near.

A song being 20 minutes long doesn't make it MOAR EPICK ! And you can tell on Illumination Theory they were trying their best to stretch it out with all the riff

soup in the beginning with no connective tissue and the TCOT copy pasta ambient section in the middle.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Enigmachine on April 16, 2021, 03:10:31 AM
Yeah I think the funny thing about D/T is that it's one of the few DT albums that you can casually play in full without having to set aside a massive chunk of time for and still feel like you're getting a very full experience. The only two others that have that quality are really just WDaDU (despite being the shortest DT album, it still feels substantial imo, regardless of what one may think of its quality) and I&W.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 16, 2021, 07:16:31 AM
I have really tried to get into this album and I do like it, but overall it was kind of disappointing.  There are some flashes of brilliance on it for sure, with Barstool Warrior and even parts of Pale Blue Dot showing some of the old Dream Theater and I just hope the new album heads more in that direction. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on April 16, 2021, 08:39:47 AM
It is the 3rd out of the last 4 albums where EVERY single song is strong and there aren't any where I lose interest.  To me, that is a pretty amazing feat.  When I was getting into music in the '80s, the norm was for an album to have maybe 3-4 solid songs, and the rest to just be "there" to fill space.  Yeah, the better ones did a bit better than that, but still usually had a few that most people didn't really care for.  The new albums may not have those "instant classics" that reach the highs of some of DT's classic songs.  But they are so consistently good from start to finish that I don't even care.  D/T definitely fits that mold.  I kind of took a break from it for a little while because of all the new music I have gotten in the last few months, and after recently revisiting it, I am blown away all over again by how good it is.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on April 16, 2021, 09:56:27 AM
Yeah I think the funny thing about D/T is that it's one of the few DT albums that you can casually play in full without having to set aside a massive chunk of time for and still feel like you're getting a very full experience. The only two others that have that quality are really just WDaDU (despite being the shortest DT album, it still feels substantial imo, regardless of what one may think of its quality) and I&W.

For a long time I split up listening sessions for the 2 discs of 6DoIT, each being under an hour long.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Setlist Scotty on April 16, 2021, 12:41:14 PM
I have really tried to get into this album and I do like it, but overall it was kind of disappointing.  There are some flashes of brilliance on it for sure, with Barstool Warrior and even parts of Pale Blue Dot showing some of the old Dream Theater and I just hope the new album heads more in that direction.
If the new LTE is any indication (which not only feels like a continuation of the other LTE albums, but classic DT, IMO), then you may get your wish.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on April 16, 2021, 02:07:52 PM
I have really tried to get into this album and I do like it, but overall it was kind of disappointing.  There are some flashes of brilliance on it for sure, with Barstool Warrior and even parts of Pale Blue Dot showing some of the old Dream Theater and I just hope the new album heads more in that direction.
If the new LTE is any indication (which not only feels like a continuation of the other LTE albums, but classic DT, IMO), then you may get your wish.

While that could be true, a big reason LTE3 is so good compared to DoT, TA, DT12, and ADTOE, is a certain someone who isn't in the band anymore. I think it's a little more than obvious at this point.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on April 16, 2021, 02:35:12 PM
Chris Collins :emo:
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on April 16, 2021, 02:40:08 PM
Chris Collins :emo:

It's all been downhill since he left.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Dedalus on April 16, 2021, 02:59:00 PM
So has "LTE = the good DT" already started?  :lol

Who would have guessed?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Enigmachine on April 16, 2021, 03:04:31 PM
For a long time I split up listening sessions for the 2 discs of 6DoIT, each being under an hour long.

Well the difference in Six Degrees' case is twofold. One is that, technological limitations aside, the album was meant to be listened to as a whole and the second issue is that even when you split things up, it's not like things aren't still daunting in their own way. On the first disc you get 5 tracks averaging comfortably over 10 minutes and on the second you get a 42 minute conceptual suite. Let's be fair, if you have the stomach for one of these, you might as well go for the full package unless you're short on time.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Setlist Scotty on April 16, 2021, 07:28:18 PM
So has "LTE = the good DT" already started?  :lol

Who would have guessed?  :biggrin:
That's not what I meant by my post. But I will say this: listening to the new LTE definitely feels like a continuation of where they left off in 1998. And it also gives me the same feeling as listening to all the DT from SDoIT on back. So having just finishing that album, it's not hard to imagine that some of that experience may rub off on the new DT.  ;)
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Dedalus on April 16, 2021, 08:09:28 PM
So has "LTE = the good DT" already started?  :lol

Who would have guessed?  :biggrin:
That's not what I meant by my post. But I will say this: listening to the new LTE definitely feels like a continuation of where they left off in 1998. And it also gives me the same feeling as listening to all the DT from SDoIT on back. So having just finishing that album, it's not hard to imagine that some of that experience may rub off on the new DT.  ;)

And can the miracle happen without the saint?
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on April 17, 2021, 09:11:12 PM
So has "LTE = the good DT" already started?  :lol

Who would have guessed?  :biggrin:
That's not what I meant by my post. But I will say this: listening to the new LTE definitely feels like a continuation of where they left off in 1998. And it also gives me the same feeling as listening to all the DT from SDoIT on back. So having just finishing that album, it's not hard to imagine that some of that experience may rub off on the new DT.  ;)

And can the miracle happen without the saint?

Fear not...Petrucci, the band's MVP since the start, will be there. :metal :metal
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Super Dude on April 18, 2021, 11:25:06 AM
I'm listening to it for the first time today, and I'm going to be honest: I'm not a fan. I have not really loved a DT album since Systematic Chaos and I have kind of disliked the albums from the self-titled onward, and unfortunately this has not been any different. It's so overly aggressive that it never really feels like you get time to breathe or even think about what you're listening to.

Also I miss proggy DT, like on BCSL or Octavarium. Fuck. /rant
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on April 18, 2021, 11:43:00 AM
I'm listening to it for the first time today, and I'm going to be honest: I'm not a fan. I have not really loved a DT album since Systematic Chaos and I have kind of disliked the albums from the self-titled onward, and unfortunately this has not been any different. It's so overly aggressive that it never really feels like you get time to breathe or even think about what you're listening to.

Also I miss proggy DT, like on BCSL or Octavarium. Fuck. /rant

You're not alone.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Dedalus on April 18, 2021, 12:52:31 PM
So has "LTE = the good DT" already started?  :lol

Who would have guessed?  :biggrin:
That's not what I meant by my post. But I will say this: listening to the new LTE definitely feels like a continuation of where they left off in 1998. And it also gives me the same feeling as listening to all the DT from SDoIT on back. So having just finishing that album, it's not hard to imagine that some of that experience may rub off on the new DT.  ;)

And can the miracle happen without the saint?

Fear not...Petrucci, the band's MVP since the start, will be there. :metal :metal

Apparently his powers are only manifested when in contact with superior forces.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: KevShmev on April 18, 2021, 02:27:14 PM
So has "LTE = the good DT" already started?  :lol

Who would have guessed?  :biggrin:
That's not what I meant by my post. But I will say this: listening to the new LTE definitely feels like a continuation of where they left off in 1998. And it also gives me the same feeling as listening to all the DT from SDoIT on back. So having just finishing that album, it's not hard to imagine that some of that experience may rub off on the new DT.  ;)

And can the miracle happen without the saint?

Fear not...Petrucci, the band's MVP since the start, will be there. :metal :metal

Apparently his powers are only manifested when in contact with superior forces.

Rudess will be there as well, so no worries.  :hat :hat
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DragonAttack on April 18, 2021, 07:05:04 PM
Back to D/T  (old schooler here) 
SIDE ONE   Untethered Angel / Paralyzed / Fall Into The Light / Barstool Warrior
SIDE TWO  Room 137 / At Wit’s End / Out Of Reach / Viper King / Pale Blue Dot

Fits onto ye ancient 60 minute cassette for a garage boombox (the CD played doesn't read cdrs).  And I just like the overall flow
(no offense intended whatsoever to S2N).  It still gets multiple plays monthly.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: NoFred on April 18, 2021, 10:15:06 PM
So has "LTE = the good DT" already started?  :lol

Who would have guessed?  :biggrin:
That's not what I meant by my post. But I will say this: listening to the new LTE definitely feels like a continuation of where they left off in 1998. And it also gives me the same feeling as listening to all the DT from SDoIT on back. So having just finishing that album, it's not hard to imagine that some of that experience may rub off on the new DT.  ;)

And can the miracle happen without the saint?

Fear not...Petrucci, the band's MVP since the start, will be there. :metal :metal

Apparently his powers are only manifested when in contact with superior forces.

Rudess will be there as well, so no worries.  :hat :hat

And just maybe, slightly untethered Rudess. Didn’t realize that might be a thing until LTE3. Looking forward to this most due to his excitement
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Dedalus on April 19, 2021, 12:25:13 AM
So has "LTE = the good DT" already started?  :lol

Who would have guessed?  :biggrin:
That's not what I meant by my post. But I will say this: listening to the new LTE definitely feels like a continuation of where they left off in 1998. And it also gives me the same feeling as listening to all the DT from SDoIT on back. So having just finishing that album, it's not hard to imagine that some of that experience may rub off on the new DT.  ;)

And can the miracle happen without the saint?

Fear not...Petrucci, the band's MVP since the start, will be there. :metal :metal

Apparently his powers are only manifested when in contact with superior forces.

Rudess will be there as well, so no worries.  :hat :hat

Nice answer.  :lol

 But OK.

We await DT back on the path of the virtuous.   :angel:
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on April 19, 2021, 01:43:51 AM
If you mean MP will rejoin Dream theater - that's not going to happen.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 19, 2021, 06:37:20 AM
If you mean MP will rejoin Dream theater - that's not going to happen.
It's definitely not.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Enigmachine on April 19, 2021, 07:21:03 AM
I find it very ironic that many people view MP working with JP on both his solo album and LTE somehow means that an MP reunion with DT is on the cards soon... when it's probably the opposite. Not only did Portnoy already have an outlet for progressive metal type music before this time (which feels like it's eased the resentment on his end), but now he's able to interact with one of his best musical friends on both of their terms in a low pressure environment. We have to remember that this is a guy who's always itching to do different projects and not work within the limitations of a normal full-time schedule.

He has The Neal Morse Band, Sons of Apollo, Flying Colors, Transatlantic, Metal Allegiance, The Winery Dogs, John Petrucci's solo stuff (in regards to recent collaboration, not necessarily that it'll be ongoing) and Liquid Tension Experiment. I doubt he has the same pull towards DT that he may have done in like that 2011-2014 period because of this and Dream Theater are doing perfectly fine, both in terms of chemistry and relevance, for not having him. It's been 10 years, MM is fixed in the band with what seems like no inner drama whatsoever and is more inseparable with each album cycle. His continued presence is likely a far more assured thing now than it was during the cycle of ADToE.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Super Dude on April 19, 2021, 07:25:44 AM
I find it very ironic that many people view MP working with JP on both his solo album and LTE somehow means that an MP reunion with DT is on the cards soon... when it's probably the opposite. Not only did Portnoy already have an outlet for progressive metal type music before this time (which feels like it's eased the resentment on his end), but now he's able to interact with one of his best musical friends on both of their terms in a low pressure environment. We have to remember that this is a guy who's always itching to do different projects and not work within the limitations of a normal full-time schedule.

He has The Neal Morse Band, Sons of Apollo, Flying Colors, Transatlantic, Metal Allegiance, The Winery Dogs, John Petrucci's solo stuff (in regards to recent collaboration, not necessarily that it'll be ongoing) and Liquid Tension Experiment. I doubt he has the same pull towards DT that he may have done in like that 2011-2014 period because of this and Dream Theater are doing perfectly fine, both in terms of chemistry and relevance, for not having him. It's been 10 years, MM is fixed in the band with what seems like no inner drama whatsoever and is more inseparable with each album cycle. His continued presence is likely a far more assured thing now than it was during the cycle of ADToE.

Word. :tup
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Dedalus on April 19, 2021, 12:02:14 PM
If you mean MP will rejoin Dream theater - that's not going to happen.

Oh no, I didn't mean that.

Things will continue as they have been. Internally and externally.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: RAIN on April 20, 2021, 08:43:58 AM
• How did you feel about it two years ago ?
On it's own, it's a pretty solid album.  And by far my favourite of the MM era.  And after the horrific Astonishing, it was a monumentally better album. 

• How do you feel about it now ?
Given that I've been listening to it alot these past two weeks, coincidentally, I feel the same as two years ago.  The best MM era album, and the best sounding, all around pretty solid.  It's great.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: goo-goo on April 20, 2021, 09:38:00 AM
Revisited the album and reminded me how much I enjoy S2N and At Wind's End. Those are killer tracks and I hope both of them are included in future setlists. Love the Rush vibe on S2N and AWE sounds like a FII era song to me. Love that vibe as well.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: gzarruk on April 20, 2021, 10:04:35 AM
Revisited the album and reminded me how much I enjoy S2N and At Wind's End. Those are killer tracks and I hope both of them are included in future setlists.

I think AWE could potentially replace BAI as the "classic" MM era epic that closes set 1 in future tour setlists.

As for S2N, it definitely needs to be played live, along with STR :metal
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on April 20, 2021, 12:21:34 PM
Because I tend to listen to new albums a lot when they first come out and then barely again after that - Distance Over Time still feels new to me

so when DT15 comes out it will seem like barely any time has passed.

I try to do that with all my fave bands. I feel like Emperor Of Sand just came out last year.

It makes the wait easier when you're not listening to the most recent album constantly or on their website every day looking for news.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: gzarruk on April 20, 2021, 01:44:30 PM
Because I tend to listen to new albums a lot when they first come out and then barely again after that - Distance Over Time still feels new to me

so when DT15 comes out it will seem like barely any time has passed.

I try to do that with all my fave bands. I feel like Emperor Of Sand just came out last year.

It makes the wait easier when you're not listening to the most recent album constantly or on their website every day looking for news.

I'm usually the opposite, when Untethered Angel was first released I played the crap out of it because I was so excited about the new album :lol
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 21, 2021, 12:38:52 PM
I stopped listening to pre-release singles a long time ago.  I am not a fan of the trend to release a handful of tracks in the months leading up to the album's official release date.  If you listen to those tracks for 3 months, when the album finally does come out, it's like you're only getting half a new album because you already know 3 or 4 of the album's tracks from the pre-release singles.  I found that it really diminished my personal "new album experience."


I really prefer to hear a new album all at one time. 





Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: TAC on April 21, 2021, 12:41:25 PM
I will generally allow myself ONE listen to a prerelease single.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Kotowboy on April 21, 2021, 01:04:28 PM
I stopped listening to pre-release singles a long time ago.  I am not a fan of the trend to release a handful of tracks in the months leading up to the album's official release date.  If you listen to those tracks for 3 months, when the album finally does come out, it's like you're only getting half a new album because you already know 3 or 4 of the album's tracks from the pre-release singles.  I found that it really diminished my personal "new album experience."


I really prefer to hear a new album all at one time.

Like when we heard A Rite of Passage and Wither a long time before Black Clouds came out. that's literally 33% of the album you've heard already. And only FOUR songs would be new.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Stadler on April 21, 2021, 01:27:50 PM
I stopped listening to pre-release singles a long time ago.  I am not a fan of the trend to release a handful of tracks in the months leading up to the album's official release date.  If you listen to those tracks for 3 months, when the album finally does come out, it's like you're only getting half a new album because you already know 3 or 4 of the album's tracks from the pre-release singles.  I found that it really diminished my personal "new album experience."


I really prefer to hear a new album all at one time.

I'm quoting you, primarily because you release new music, and there has to be some strategy to it, and some "give and take" in terms of what gets released when, but I stopped listening because it turned out that I didn't feel I was getting a good look at the final project with the prereleased stuff.   I found I HATED the prereleased stuff and it was coloring my enjoyment of the real record when it came out.  I remember hearing Tattoo by Van Halen and thinking "WOW does that blow".  I wasn't going to buy the album, then - not kidding - my OCD kicked in and I bought it.  It was my album of the year that year, and now it's my second favorite VH record, and I even LIKE Tattoo in the context of the album.  Same with DT15.  Arc Of Life (the Yes offshoot); I heard the first track on a YouTube video and it SUCKED.  HARD.   I got the album in early form to do a review, and in the context of the album it was really good, and I ended up loving the record.    There are a couple others.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Ben_Jamin on April 21, 2021, 03:34:52 PM
I stopped listening to pre-release singles a long time ago.  I am not a fan of the trend to release a handful of tracks in the months leading up to the album's official release date.  If you listen to those tracks for 3 months, when the album finally does come out, it's like you're only getting half a new album because you already know 3 or 4 of the album's tracks from the pre-release singles.  I found that it really diminished my personal "new album experience."


I really prefer to hear a new album all at one time.

Like when we heard A Rite of Passage and Wither a long time before Black Clouds came out. that's literally 33% of the album you've heard already. And only FOUR songs would be new.

If you go by track number and not total music time...

Doesn't matter how many tracks for me. As long as it's a good length that doesn't feel too short or too long, and sometimes long albums tend to feel short, and short albums sometimes tend to drag. (Haken - Virus is an example of a short album that drags)

I stopped listening to pre-release singles a long time ago.  I am not a fan of the trend to release a handful of tracks in the months leading up to the album's official release date.  If you listen to those tracks for 3 months, when the album finally does come out, it's like you're only getting half a new album because you already know 3 or 4 of the album's tracks from the pre-release singles.  I found that it really diminished my personal "new album experience."


I really prefer to hear a new album all at one time.

I'm quoting you, primarily because you release new music, and there has to be some strategy to it, and some "give and take" in terms of what gets released when, but I stopped listening because it turned out that I didn't feel I was getting a good look at the final project with the prereleased stuff.   I found I HATED the prereleased stuff and it was coloring my enjoyment of the real record when it came out.  I remember hearing Tattoo by Van Halen and thinking "WOW does that blow".  I wasn't going to buy the album, then - not kidding - my OCD kicked in and I bought it.  It was my album of the year that year, and now it's my second favorite VH record, and I even LIKE Tattoo in the context of the album.  Same with DT15.  Arc Of Life (the Yes offshoot); I heard the first track on a YouTube video and it SUCKED.  HARD.   I got the album in early form to do a review, and in the context of the album it was really good, and I ended up loving the record.    There are a couple others.


I hear ya. It's why I will listen to album regardless if I heard the released songs or not. It's good to hear a new song, but also, I try not to over do it before the album comes out.

But then, I end up not listening to the album for a while anyways, and to the songs that were released, so when I do come back to the album, it sounds a bit fresh. But that's not like until way later, like, 2 years.  :lol
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Enigmachine on April 21, 2021, 04:27:20 PM
Yeah that's the thing, I don't tend to mind listening to some pre-release singles because I only tend to listen about once or twice, so it's still pretty fresh in my mind by the time the full album releases. Plus, I find that if you come back to it after a while, it begins to slot in even smoother.

And yeah, Wither and ARoP are less than 20% of the album, so it's still fine in that case imo. While Black Clouds only has 6 songs as well, it's worth noting that the longer ones pretty much have the content of multiple songs (TBoT has two different sections with different choruses, ANtR has the Beautiful Agony section, The Shattered Fortress has 3 parts and TCoT has a different vibe for everything from the spacey break onwards). With how they structure the longer songs as multi-part suites, Black Clouds has more of the feeling of an 11 song album than a 6 song one for that reason. If they pulled an Altered State and split all of those suite structures up into tracks, that's probably what it would've looked like.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: ytserush on May 08, 2021, 06:42:03 PM
I stopped listening to pre-release singles a long time ago.  I am not a fan of the trend to release a handful of tracks in the months leading up to the album's official release date.  If you listen to those tracks for 3 months, when the album finally does come out, it's like you're only getting half a new album because you already know 3 or 4 of the album's tracks from the pre-release singles.  I found that it really diminished my personal "new album experience."


I really prefer to hear a new album all at one time.

Words to live by. Makes for a much more rewarding listening experience for me.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: gzarruk on May 13, 2021, 02:05:57 PM
New drum playthrough for Untethered Angel by Mike Mangini :metal :metal :metal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI2B9q8yFjU
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on May 13, 2021, 04:19:32 PM
Wow. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: nikatapi on May 14, 2021, 12:48:18 AM
So happy that Mike has started doing these videos. I think it gives a new appreciation of the way he plays the instrument.

Another new video with Mike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2GF2D2Eu98
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: goo-goo on May 14, 2021, 07:08:58 AM
So happy that Mike has started doing these videos. I think it gives a new appreciation of the way he plays the instrument.

Another new video with Mike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2GF2D2Eu98

Holy crap! As much as I dislike Mike's setup, can't deny that the guy is a monster player. The kit sounds gorgeous. Still baffled at the drumsound that was used for DT12. Really wish they made the drums sound more natural. Maybe DT12 is  DT's "Vapor Trails" and could be remixed sometime in the future (WWRD).
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: nikatapi on May 14, 2021, 07:45:52 AM
So happy that Mike has started doing these videos. I think it gives a new appreciation of the way he plays the instrument.

Another new video with Mike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2GF2D2Eu98

Holy crap! As much as I dislike Mike's setup, can't deny that the guy is a monster player. The kit sounds gorgeous. Still baffled at the drumsound that was used for DT12. Really wish they made the drums sound more natural. Maybe DT12 is  DT's "Vapor Trails" and could be remixed sometime in the future (WWRD).

Yeah i think both ADTOE and DT12 have significant sonic issues, at least DoT was a great sounding album compared to them, and i'm hoping the improvements will continue for the upcoming album.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: devieira73 on May 14, 2021, 12:08:46 PM
So happy that Mike has started doing these videos. I think it gives a new appreciation of the way he plays the instrument.

Another new video with Mike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2GF2D2Eu98

Finally! Thank's, I'll watch it!
Mike playing Untethered Angel in his studio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI2B9q8yFjU
Talk about well thought drums parts! :metal :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Wim Kruithof on June 09, 2021, 03:27:51 PM
Quote
As for the D/T discussion, I still love it, as almost everything done by the band, though I'm still not able to properly rank it among the other albums (it's at the top half for sure, tho). The only thing that it's missing imo are longer songs/epics. I like the shorter/no-nonsense song format they've been doing for a while now, but longer songs don't just have to be a 5 minute song with other 5 minutes of instrumental wanking in it. I've been in a big Neal Morse/Transatlantic epic mood lately, where I'm mostly listening to the 20 or 30 minute epics while going out for walks and there's just so much you can do with song structures in lenghty epics in prog rock/metal, and DT can do that well. I'm hoping for some of that on DT15.

Could have been my own reaction. I listen to the full album at least each month, but still I’m unable to compare it with the others. Althought to me it is getting better over time. And performed live was an incredible experience. They still are at top of there genre. To me, Dream Theater is 95% of all music I listen.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: nick_z on June 10, 2021, 11:53:23 AM
Just revisited D/T after a little while. Happy to report I still enjoy it very much.

Not reinventing the wheel, obviously, but it does sound like there was a bit more fun/spontaneity in the writing and performances. Fall into the Light, Barstool Warrior, S2N and At Wit's End are really strong songs (the latter two fighting for my favorite's spot on the album). Paralyzed is a good, single-like catchy tune (in my opinion better than, say, Forsaken - to mention something in a similar vein), and I particularly like Jordan's work in the chorus. Untethered Angel is a very good opener (and its guitar-keys harmonized run is kinda refreshing) and Out of Reach is a pleasant ballad.

Not too crazy about Room 137 - it's an interesting experiment between the grooviness and the Beatlesque vocal effects, but I'm not 100% sold...and Pale Blue Dot, while instrumentally impressive, didn't quite stick with me.

All in all, I'd currently place it second in my personal MM's era album ranking:

DT12
Distance over Time
A Dramatic Turn of Events
The Astonishing

...although the ranking does sometimes switch with ADTOE. Also note I actually enjoy The Astonishing...I just find I don't go back to it quite as often.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Wim Kruithof on June 10, 2021, 01:30:43 PM
All in all, I'd currently place it second in my personal MM's era album ranking:

DT12
Distance over Time
A Dramatic Turn of Events
The Astonishing

To me, A Dramatic Turn of Events and DT12 are much, much better then both The Astonishing and Distance over Time. But I have to admit both ADToE and DT12 will be in my top 10 overall.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: bosk1 on June 10, 2021, 01:44:35 PM
I put D/T at #3 or #4 in the Mangini era.  But that isn't a knock on the album at all.  I love it.  I just love those others more.  ADTOE and DT12 are my #3 and #4 overall (behind Six Degrees and SFAM), and it'll take a lot to top them.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 11, 2021, 08:30:11 AM
I put D/T at #3 or #4 in the Mangini era.  But that isn't a knock on the album at all.  I love it.  I just love those others more. 
Same for me.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: devieira73 on June 11, 2021, 09:17:20 AM
I think DT12 is a great album. I think, if the mix wasn't a bit weird, the album would be more appreciated. Strangely the isolated drums don't sound so bad as in the album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oA7sj_NVik
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: billboy73 on June 18, 2021, 02:36:58 PM
Gave D/T a good listen for the first time in 6 months or so, and I still think it is one of their most consistent albums.  No super highs or big lows for me, but everything is solid.  That is not a bad thing.  I remember when I first picked it up, I would have liked a longer, proggy track on it, but that doesn't bother me much now.  It is definitely my favorite of the MM era, and a nice rebound after the bloated Astonishing. 
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Cool Chris on June 18, 2021, 08:53:26 PM
I did this as well. At Wit's End is still awesome. I had this feeling it would have fit well on Awake (I love Awake so I consider that high praise). I knew Fall into the Light was solid, but it ratcheted up a few notches up this listen. That could be Top 25 material for me. A great song that doesn't try to be more than it should be, unlike many of DT's songs since 8VM.

The rest of that album was what I thought it was. My initial opinions haven't changed. Paralyzed and Barstool Warrior are good songs, but don't quite reach the upper echelon of their material. Pale Blue Dot should be much better than it is. Out of Reach is a nice tune. Untethered Angel is alright. S2N and R137 would be cutting room floor material from FII.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Trav86 on June 19, 2021, 11:36:21 AM
It’s a good album.  Some songs are awesome; Fall Into the Light, Barstool Warrior, At Wit’s End, Out of Reach.  Untethered Angel, Paralyzed, Room 137, and Viper King seem like they were thrown together in the same afternoon. They’re not bad though.  S2N and Pale Blue Dot both feel like they’re reaching farther than can achieve. 

Overall, it’s enjoyable. I think it shows a lot of potential for the next album. And considering it’s their 14th album, 30 years into their career, they should be quite proud. And for what it’s worth, as a 20 year long fan, I’m quite proud of them as well.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: vtgrad on June 24, 2021, 11:41:06 AM


Overall, it’s enjoyable. I think it shows a lot of potential for the next album. And considering it’s their 14th album, 30 years into their career, they should be quite proud. And for what it’s worth, as a 20 year long fan, I’m quite proud of them as well.

I'll echo that as well as an almost 30-YR fan... I'm proud of them and I'm stoked that they're still making music!  I have no problem at all being 41 and still headbanging like I'm 21.  :biggrin:

This thread being the impetus, I put on D/T while working outdoors a few days ago and the same thing that always happens happened... once I start listening to it, I can't stop.  That's a good thing I guess.  PBD, AWE, and FITL are highlights for me; I find myself restarting/re-listening to AWE two and three times in a row.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: nikatapi on June 25, 2021, 01:14:39 AM
Coming back to this album, i think what i love the most is Mike's drumming. He's such a tasteful player and so unique and it really tickles my ears and brain.
Still feel like Barstool Warrior is one of the best songs DT have written after 2000, could use a better title though  :lol
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on June 25, 2021, 04:09:41 PM
Coming back to this album, i think what i love the most is Mike's drumming. He's such a tasteful player and so unique and it really tickles my ears and brain.
Still feel like Barstool Warrior is one of the best songs DT have written after 2000, could use a better title though  :lol

My main gripe with BW is the name. It sounds like a working title, similar to 'The Shaman's Trance'.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: TAC on June 25, 2021, 04:25:16 PM
Coming back to this album, i think what i love the most is Mike's drumming. He's such a tasteful player and so unique and it really tickles my ears and brain.
Still feel like Barstool Warrior is one of the best songs DT have written after 2000, could use a better title though  :lol

My main gripe with BW is the name. It sounds like a working title, similar to 'The Shaman's Trance'.

I agree guys.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: nick_z on June 25, 2021, 05:13:16 PM
Coming back to this album, i think what i love the most is Mike's drumming. He's such a tasteful player and so unique and it really tickles my ears and brain.
Still feel like Barstool Warrior is one of the best songs DT have written after 2000, could use a better title though  :lol

My main gripe with BW is the name. It sounds like a working title, similar to 'The Shaman's Trance'.

I agree guys.

So true  ;D In fact, when the tracklist for D/T came out, I was positive that was a working title. I guess they were going for a Fish-era Marillion vibe with that too...
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: BlacklistJones on July 28, 2021, 10:26:24 AM
• How did you feel about it two years ago?

Very excited, as I always am for a Dream Theater. I've been a fan since I was 5, and they have always been a major connection between my brother and I. A tradition, in terms of album releases, seeing them in concert, etc. - so naturally, as it is tradition, it was a big deal for me.

• How do you feel about it now?

Most of the album maintains its rotation. There are a few songs that have since fallen off the radar, like with any album, that just didn't age well for my ears (Pale Blue Dot, Out of Reach, Untethered Angel). I remember when the initial tracklisting came out and being weary about a song called "Barstool Warrior". Ironically, for me, it turned out to be the best track on the album and one that is most definitely still in rotation two-years on.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: jsbru on July 28, 2021, 05:00:00 PM
I can still get into the first 4 songs, but it drops off fast from there.  I've given the latter 2/3rds of the album a try plenty of times, but they're just not catchy songs.

Barstool Warrior is one of their best of the Mangini era, and Fall into the Light is not far behind.  Paralyzed is a cool little changeup from what they normally do--not too complex.  Untethered Angel is good, but it sounds too much like a paint by number DT song that they've released 8 times before.  The rest of the album just seems to me to be too much un-focused noodling and filler.

I really feel like DT would benefit from hiring an outside producer, but Petrucci has made it pretty clear that they don't want to do that.  Their best albums are their early albums, and I think they all benefited from having an outside producer preventing them from getting too much groupthink and cutting down on excessive musical wankery.  Nothing wrong with wankery per se, as DT is the best band in the world at it, but sometimes there's just too much.  Focus on composing songs.  DT 12 was headed in the right direction with this, but the second half of DOT reverted back to the unfocused noodling.

I really liked The Astonishing--it was a refreshing change of pace, and it is really aging well with me.  Too much of their other stuff for the last 15 years has been the same prog jam, remixed 12 different ways.  I hope this new album offers up some new creative ideas.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on July 30, 2021, 12:57:15 PM
Just out of curiosity I was searching in which order they composed the songs.  So far I've found the following,

Song 1 AWE
Song 2 PAR
Song 4 UA
Song 6 FITL
Song 8 VK
Song 10 S2N

Does anybody knows when the other songs were written?
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: Another_Won on July 30, 2021, 03:04:31 PM
Just out of curiosity I was searching in which order they composed the songs.  So far I've found the following,

Song 1 AWE
Song 2 PAR
Song 4 UA
Song 6 FITL
Song 8 VK
Song 10 S2N

Does anybody knows when the other songs were written?
AWE is quite an intense song to start with.  They must have been on fire, ready to go. :metal
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: jayvee3 on July 30, 2021, 09:57:47 PM
I can still get into the first 4 songs, but it drops off fast from there.  I've given the latter 2/3rds of the album a try plenty of times, but they're just not catchy songs.

Barstool Warrior is one of their best of the Mangini era, and Fall into the Light is not far behind.  Paralyzed is a cool little changeup from what they normally do--not too complex.  Untethered Angel is good, but it sounds too much like a paint by number DT song that they've released 8 times before.  The rest of the album just seems to me to be too much un-focused noodling and filler.


See, this is where DT are so great, with so many differing opinions on their material. I'm almost the opposite - loving the back half of D/T the most. The beginning of the album starts a bit "standard" for me, then Fall into the light and Barstool Warrior are a brilliant 1-2 punch of what I love about the band. Room 137 is a little like the first couple of tracks for me - fine, but nothing I have a constant urge to revisit frequently. From there, it just keeps getting stronger for me. S2N is a ripper, At Wits End is one of their finest songs full of great lyrics and emotion and Out of Reach is not only underrated, I feel for me, it could be the finest ballad the band have done. I love that song. Pale Blue Dot also closes the album out with a bang, and is another of my faves. For some reason, I've always felt that song would sound more complete, if the outro included some of the samples of the astronauts that feature at the start of the song. but that's minor. Viper King I don't really include, as its a bonus track and for me doesn't fit the album feel and is exactly that - a cool little extra bonus.

In any case, it's an album I really enjoyed on release, and still really enjoy to this day, revisiting many of the songs frequently. To me, every album - not just DT's discography, but every album in existence - have tracks I don't revisit. But this is a great album overall. Being a longtime fan from the early days, I really have enjoyed the MM era albums more than many. I prefer his drumming and feel and find I revisit these albums a lot. And D/T is no exception.
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DTwwbwMP on July 31, 2021, 07:33:20 PM
Distance imo is a "good" album, but certainly NOT one of their best.

Hello Stadler!
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: darkshade on August 02, 2021, 01:21:20 PM
I call it a safe album, nothing overly controversial, there are some good moments, but I'm left feeling like they could have done more with it.
I think Barstool Warrior and At Wit's End are the only two 'classics' from this album, and I find little fault in those songs. S2N and Viper King are fun songs, too fun to dislike, but the compositions are choppy. The rest sounds like old ground covered, influences on sleeve (first 3 tracks), a not very good song imo (Room 137) or incomplete (PBD)
Title: Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
Post by: DTwwbwMP on August 02, 2021, 02:13:17 PM
I call it a safe album, nothing overly controversial, there are some good moments, but I'm left feeling like they could have done more with it.

EXACTLY!