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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Stadler on December 03, 2020, 08:26:53 PM
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I don't know where to put this so I'll start a thread. Just watched the "Folklore: The Long Pond Studio Sessions" on Disney+.
Holy crap. Really good. REALLY good. Her, Aaron Dessner (from The National), Justin (from Bon Iver, on one song) and Jack Antonoff. It's all 17 songs from the album, played in order, with a little explanation/commentary before each one. Set in a log cabin in upper New York (about an hour and a half from me, as it turns out). Most songs are just her and Aaron and Jack and it's AMAZING. Rich, warm, and cozy, it's a very powerful performance.
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Taylor Swift is a national treasure and I am in love with the albums 1989, Red, Lover, and Folklore. The Disney+ film is awesome. I love her. Finally a music thread for me :biggrin:
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Awesome, really wanting to check this out. May do so tonight. Big fan of her latest album.
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I am not a Taylor Swift fan, but I do think 1989 is a really good album.
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Saw her live during the Reputation tour and it was a show to remember even if I knew like 2 songs from the whole set. I was entertained through and through. The concert for that tour is on Netflix. I have to check out the new album and this Disney+ show.
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I don't know if I would call myself a fan, but I like Red and 1989. I don't care for her albums before those two, and I despise the two after those two. Folklore is inoffensive background noise, but boy am I sick of it. My wife is a total fangirl, so I'm subjected to her music a lot.
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Zook, if you're looking to throw your wife a bone, watch this with her. You might enjoy it; it's kind of Taylor Swift without all the "teenage", if you know what I mean. No doubt the material has been processed, but the initial filming was simply her, her two collaborators, and an engineer, filmed by robotic cameras, in a cabin in the Catskills. The song arrangements are different, and I found it really... mature, for a lack of a better word. Not sure this is going to convert a "hater", but if you're willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, it's REALLY good. Better than it has any right to be, actually.
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Zook, if you're looking to throw your wife a bone, watch this with her. You might enjoy it; it's kind of Taylor Swift without all the "teenage", if you know what I mean. No doubt the material has been processed, but the initial filming was simply her, her two collaborators, and an engineer, filmed by robotic cameras, in a cabin in the Catskills. The song arrangements are different, and I found it really... mature, for a lack of a better word. Not sure this is going to convert a "hater", but if you're willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, it's REALLY good. Better than it has any right to be, actually.
Yeah, for real. All of this. It's a great watch and her singing and the playing in general is really low key but super heartfelt.
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I am completely in love with Taylor Swift, no joke. The albums and the songs, I can take here and there, I definitely don't like *all* of her stuff, especially pre-Red stuff. But I just love watching her perform and talk. She's definitely one of the best pop songwriters out there, and for all the flack her voice gets because she's not Adele or Beyonce, I am very fond of it.
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I am completely in love with Taylor Swift, no joke. The albums and the songs, I can take here and there, I definitely don't like *all* of her stuff, especially pre-Red stuff. But I just love watching her perform and talk. She's definitely one of the best pop songwriters out there, and for all the flack her voice gets because she's not Adele or Beyonce, I am very fond of it.
Her voice is awesome. Not everyone needs to be Christina Aguilera with the excessive melismatic singing. I'm not quite big on the Reputation stuff but the girl's talented as all get out and I admire her willingness to do new things.
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I am completely in love with Taylor Swift, no joke. The albums and the songs, I can take here and there, I definitely don't like *all* of her stuff, especially pre-Red stuff. But I just love watching her perform and talk. She's definitely one of the best pop songwriters out there, and for all the flack her voice gets because she's not Adele or Beyonce, I am very fond of it.
Based on that, you will LOVE LOVE LOVE this special. It's exactly what you're writing about. You get to see her - up close (she's wearing a simple cloth dress and sitting on a couch) - perform her material, and for the most part her discussions are cogent and meaningful. There's little "gossip" or "tabloid" and while I can't tell if she's telling the whole truth or not, she's certainly authentic and credible. The ONLY real nods to the gossip was in confirming who "William Bowery" is, and in the last song - The Lakes; she set it up by talking about the poet William Wordsworth, then when singing it - beautifully, and dare I say, sexily - she sang "I've come too far to watch some name-dropping sleaze [Scooter Braun, who is holding her masters hostage] tell me what are my words worth", and looked directly into the camera, visibly spitting the words out.
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Zook, if you're looking to throw your wife a bone, watch this with her. You might enjoy it; it's kind of Taylor Swift without all the "teenage", if you know what I mean. No doubt the material has been processed, but the initial filming was simply her, her two collaborators, and an engineer, filmed by robotic cameras, in a cabin in the Catskills. The song arrangements are different, and I found it really... mature, for a lack of a better word. Not sure this is going to convert a "hater", but if you're willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, it's REALLY good. Better than it has any right to be, actually.
She's already watched it, and while I have no doubt she'd watch it again, I don't think I'll ever want to. Thanks for the recommendation though. Maybe if I'm bored and she has it on, I'll sit for a few.
I was surprised how much I liked 1989 (minus Bad Blood, which is one of the worst songs I ever heard), but Reputation and Lover had me questioning her abilities and authenticity. It's really that bad to me.
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Wow, Lover was legit a top 10 album of 2019 for me. Her best album imo. Banger after banger. That album fucks
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Wow, Lover was legit a top 10 album of 2019 for me. Her best album imo. Banger after banger. That album fucks
It can fuck right off. :P it's better than Reputation at least.
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i'm indifferent to Lover. I LOVE the melodies; almost Beach Boy-ish, so there's that. I thought lyrically and conceptually it was
a little very pandering and heavy handed. I know this is just me and my biases, but I could just picture sanctimonious Jack Antonoff slapping himself on the back for being involved in a project so "enlightened".
But folklore is something different. It goes deep, and I think her deciding to be less blatantly autobiographical actually allowed us to see even further behind the curtain. It's almost Springsteen-ish in how it is so of the moment (COVID) and yet transcendent of that moment at the same time. I know I'm giving it a lot of weight here, but I honestly feel like it's deserving. There's some real art in folklore, even if you find you don't like the songs. No, she's not a vocal powerhouse, but like our best artists, she serves the song, and her voice REALLY shines on some of the material.
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lover is very inconsistent but it has some high highs (cruel summer, the archer, the title track)
i don't think folklore has highs as high but it's a better album overall
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i'm indifferent to Lover. I LOVE the melodies; almost Beach Boy-ish, so there's that. I thought lyrically and conceptually it was a little very pandering and heavy handed. I know this is just me and my biases, but I could just picture sanctimonious Jack Antonoff slapping himself on the back for being involved in a project so "enlightened".
But folklore is something different. It goes deep, and I think her deciding to be less blatantly autobiographical actually allowed us to see even further behind the curtain. It's almost Springsteen-ish in how it is so of the moment (COVID) and yet transcendent of that moment at the same time. I know I'm giving it a lot of weight here, but I honestly feel like it's deserving. There's some real art in folklore, even if you find you don't like the songs. No, she's not a vocal powerhouse, but like our best artists, she serves the song, and her voice REALLY shines on some of the material.
I was playing Exile at the piano last night (and like, every other night for the last couple months) and it's just such a damn good song. Helps that it's about the only Swift song that's somewhat in my register :lol I agree there is some genuinely great art in Folklore, but I disagree that she isn't a vocal powerhouse.
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(https://media.tenor.com/images/f7dc0116c477adfb9e9fac8b041d6c80/tenor.gif)
Naw she seems cool and has a great voice.
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I know one song of hers, the one from Sing. I thought it was horrible.
If you could recommend one song of hers that best encapsulates her and her talents for me to listen to, what would it be?
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I need to come back to this thread once I actually get around to folklore. I've been derelict in my pop listening the past year or so! But I'm nearly as big a Swiftie as an adult man can get away with being. I like all her albums, and even think some of her best songs are on the earlier albums, the albums many people don't touch at all because they're allergic to country music. I mean, Tim McGraw is just a great song—I think it's still one of her absolute best. Haunted is totally not something you expect from her, but it somehow just works. The piano version of Forever and Always, from the bonus tracks on Fearless, is very good and a serious upgrade over the album version.
Of course, I also like the later stuff a lot. I can't really dispute the consensus view that 1989 is her best album, and I disagree with the negativity surrounding Reputation—I think it has some tracks that pack a bigger punch than much of 1989, particularly the lovely Delicate and, of course, New Year's Day.
Chris, if you're still thinking about trying a single song, I think Wildest Dreams is one that's very good and that most of the Swift fans here would endorse.
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Wildest Dreams is a BOP
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I think Reputation was an interesting idea that failed in context. In my opinion her voice is not made for darker sounding music. That's why Lover and Folklore work for me. They play to her strengths.
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I need to come back to this thread once I actually get around to folklore. I've been derelict in my pop listening the past year or so! But I'm nearly as big a Swiftie as an adult man can get away with being. I like all her albums, and even think some of her best songs are on the earlier albums, the albums many people don't touch at all because they're allergic to country music. I mean, Tim McGraw is just a great song—I think it's still one of her absolute best. Haunted is totally not something you expect from her, but it somehow just works. The piano version of Forever and Always, from the bonus tracks on Fearless, is very good and a serious upgrade over the album version.
Of course, I also like the later stuff a lot. I can't really dispute the consensus view that 1989 is her best album, and I disagree with the negativity surrounding Reputation—I think it has some tracks that pack a bigger punch than much of 1989, particularly the lovely Delicate and, of course, New Year's Day.
Chris, if you're still thinking about trying a single song, I think Wildest Dreams is one that's very good and that most of the Swift fans here would endorse.
I'm not sure I mean it literally, but I often say to people that Wildest Dreams is the "perfect song". I think it's her best song, though I can see that maybe others don't agree. Another good one is "All Too Well" from Red. I love that lyric: "And you call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest."
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Really starting to the think Taylor might be a closet prog fan. First Folklore (Big Big Train album), now Evermore (Transatlantic song, and kind of close to Forevermore too!). Not to mention Red!
https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/1337020334122397697?s=21
“I’m elated to tell you that my 9th studio album, and folklore’s sister record, will be out tonight at midnight eastern. It’s called evermore”
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Oh, another new album! Excellent. Really enjoyed Folklore although 1989 remains her best album for me. Such perfect pop music.
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She is an actual psycho. Two albums?? I was thinking she was hinting at releasing a video or a collab single and she made another damn album??
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I don't know where to put this so I'll start a thread. Just watched the "Folklore: The Long Pond Studio Sessions" on Disney+.
Holy crap. Really good. REALLY good. Her, Aaron Dessner (from The National), Justin (from Bon Iver, on one song) and Jack Antonoff. It's all 17 songs from the album, played in order, with a little explanation/commentary before each one. Set in a log cabin in upper New York (about an hour and a half from me, as it turns out). Most songs are just her and Aaron and Jack and it's AMAZING. Rich, warm, and cozy, it's a very powerful performance.
This had me curious so I wandered over to iTunes and found there is a version of Folklore that includes the audio from the Long Pond Sessions.
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Kind of fired up for this. More than I should be, actually, but other than Transatlantic, I haven't really been all that jazzed about an album for a long time, so that feels good.
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guess she really is a mad woman
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Yeah, I am also kind of fired up for this? Very strange....but I have to admit some of the song writing on Folklore is just really incredible, in all honestly if you are serious about the power of great music it is worth a listen.
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Wildest Dreams is a BOP
I have no idea what that means. But I did listen to it, and it was... fine. The music was alright, the vocals were ok but I do not care for that style of singing.
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Wait, Taylor Swift has good songs? Who knew?? :lol
I have to admit that when I first heard about her years ago when she was doing country pop, I dismissed her right away and put her in my "don't waste your time" box, but I read good things about her elsewhere recently, and by serious music fans, which made me curious, so I checked out some tunes. Some of it is boring drivel, but some of her songs, especially from the 1989 album, are fun and catchy. I am admittedly a sucker for good pop music, when done well, especially in the 80's vein. :biggrin: I checked out a few interviews as well and she seems pretty grounded and has a good head on her shoulders.
Wildest Dreams is a BOP
I have no idea what that means. But I did listen to it, and it was... fine. The music was alright, the vocals were ok but I do not care for that style of singing.
Along these lines, I know what you mean. Seems like most modern pop has those overproduced vocals, to where they are so drenched in effects and auto-tone that it almost sounds like a robot is singing, but Swift's vocals seems pretty human and not too offensive in that area, at least based on what I am hearing so far.
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No more Swift chatter? ;)
I had Gold Rush from her new album stuck in my head all day.
WHY IS THIS HAPPENING???? :lol :lol
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WHY IS THIS HAPPENING???? :lol :lol
BECAUSE IT'S CATCHY.
I'm driving my neighbors nuts singing along to every remix of Willow that comes out. The more that you saaay the less I knoow~~~
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WHY IS THIS HAPPENING???? :lol :lol
BECAUSE IT'S CATCHY.
I'm driving my neighbors nuts singing along to every remix of Willow that comes out. The more that you saaay the less I knoow~~~
Haha, very true. Music like that on her two 2020 albums can come off as really boring at times, as that style doesn't always appeal to me, but she sneaks in a lot of good hooks.
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Folklore is probably my most-listened-to album of the last two months.
:eek :eek
I have to say it again: I did not see this coming.
Even the songs I found boring at first sound quite good now. As a whole, the album works extremely well.
Evermore is quite good as well. Not quite as consistent, but its highs are just as good as those on Folklore.
And it looks like she is ready to release one of her older albums after completely re-recording it following the fiasco where she was unable to buy back her original master recordings.
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Fearless. And I understand that it will also include six other songs that were considered at the time but didn't make it. I know my daughter is beside herself with joy (I think Fearless is her favorite of her "classic" albums).
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I listened to folklore after Steven Wilson said it's a "fantastic" album. Last time I did that it was Zeit by Tangerine Dream he recommended. Now I'm a Tangerine Dream fan and own like 7 or 8 of their albums on vinyl.
I didn't want to like folklore, but actually I kinda did. I'm also a HUGE Lana Del Rey fan, but she is at least a little indie or darker or whatever. But yeah, I gotta admit, it's a pretty good album. BBT have dedicated one of their Passengers Club updates to folklore (since they also have an album called Folklore). I haven't found the time to listen to folklore more after my first spin, but I guess NOW I'll have to do it ;)
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Fearless. And I understand that it will also include six other songs that were considered at the time but didn't make it. I know my daughter is beside herself with joy (I think Fearless is her favorite of her "classic" albums).
I can't decide if her decision to do this is awesome or a bit too spiteful. Probably both. :lol
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I didn't want to like folklore
Why?
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I didn't want to like folklore
Why?
Because it's Taylor Swift, whose fans call themselves Swifties and I'm a prog nerd who mostly wears black clothes and bitches over modern pop music constantly :lol
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i listen to black metal and pop, often in the same day, you're fine
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Fearless. And I understand that it will also include six other songs that were considered at the time but didn't make it. I know my daughter is beside herself with joy (I think Fearless is her favorite of her "classic" albums).
I can't decide if her decision to do this is awesome or a bit too spiteful. Probably both. :lol
Oh, it's definitely spiteful. If you listen to the interviews related to the... whatever the live thing was she did, she's very bitter over what Scooter Braun "did" to her (in quotes because it's her opinion; your opinion may differ). Having said that, I think for all she's matured and come into her own, I'm excited to hear it. And she's not the first: Kiss, Def Leppard...
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Oh, it's definitely spiteful. If you listen to the interviews related to the... whatever the live thing was she did, she's very bitter over what Scooter Braun "did" to her (in quotes because it's her opinion; your opinion may differ). Having said that, I think for all she's matured and come into her own, I'm excited to hear it. And she's not the first: Kiss, Def Leppard...
I had never heard Love Story before yesterday, unless it was on in the background somewhere and I tuned it because ya know country pop :lol, but I liked the new version. I then listened to the original, and the two versions were extremely similar, but I thought the new one was more better because a) her voice now sounds more mature, and b) the country elements seemed more like the icing this time rather than the cake, if that makes sense, which works a lot better for someone who like me who is pretty much grossed out by the ever-growing trend of country pop (which often comes off to me as pop music with a twang).
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I figured it was best to bring this comment to this thread, but we now have two of the biggest progressive rock "stars" of the 21st century, Neal Morse and Steven Wilson, giving Taylor Swift props for her 2020 work (and yes, I realize somewhere SW's head is exploding due to me referring to him as a progressive rock star).
I texted a friend last week, "If you had told me three months ago, 'Transatlantic, Steven Wilson and Taylor Swift will all be releasing new albums, and the Swift one will be the one you listen to the most,' I would have died laughing, but here we are."
Anyone else still listening to both Folklore and Evermore a lot? I cannot get enough of either.
Favorite songs are:
Exile
Mirrorball
August
This Is My Trying (I listen to this at least once a daily basis)
Mad Woman
Epiphany
Champagne Problems
Gold Rush (this one I also listen to daily)
Happiness
Coney Island
Marjorie
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Yes, I have listened to both albums - Folklore and Evermore, too many times to count and both way more times than Transatlantic or Steven Wilson new albums. In honesty I probably only listen to Taylor Swift because my daughters are big fans but these albums really sucked me in. Some really brilliant and beautiful song writing.
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I haven’t listened to Folklore or Evermore, but I thought the song Steven Wilson covered was better than anything on his new album.
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If you like the records, the live thing from the barn is crucial. I think it's so good.
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Yes, I too love the 'live thing from the barn'.
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I still haven't seen that yet, but Exile from it is on YT and that is great stuff. That barn version might be better than the studio version.
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Speaking of the live thing, My Tears Richocet from it is on YT...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJJZ1cqFFU0
This is all kinds of awesome. She has an uncanny ability to make such a simple vocal melody sound wonderful.
If anyone is unfamiliar with any of her 2020 material, take 4 minutes and watch that. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Speaking of the live thing, My Tears Richocet from it is on YT...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJJZ1cqFFU0
This is all kinds of awesome. She has an uncanny ability to make such a simple vocal melody sound wonderful.
If anyone is unfamiliar with any of her 2020 material, take 4 minutes and watch that. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Is good, and reminds me of low volume early Tori Amos/Under the Pink for the vocal melody skill
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Is good, and reminds me of low volume early Tori Amos/Under the Pink for the vocal melody skill
Yeah, I have noticed that Swift has a very nice lower range. She is not one of those singers who will knock your socks off with crazy high notes, but she has a nice voice in general, and she really knows how to use it. It feels like some of those singers who were born with great voices feel the need to show it off too often and often at the expense of real emotion and/or character, but Taylor seems like the complete opposite.
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I was introduced to Swift Via a friend. Before that i'd tuned her out because her very early country singles were just not my thing so i just was off listening to other things.
than in 2014. my friend pointed in 1989's direction. i was like yea ok fine i'll try it :lol now i had no idea she ditched the country at that point. and one thing about me.........i love me some Metal and prog like you all. but i'm kind of a sucker for pop more. i lean further that ways.
1989 blew me away with how good it was!!! girl could write a hook and i was.....hooked, lol
Since 2014 i've followed her actively. some stuff i've liked more than others but what a great writer. and i think folklore is probably the best album by a major pop star in decades. evermore i enjoyed but less than folklore. but it's still very good.
and i still don't enjoy her first 2 albums not my thing. Speak now was a major step up. but to me Red was her really planting herself as an artist.
the only Swift album i was disappointed in was Reputation. too much beat dropping trap music. and such whiny lyrics. and my Mom brought e up to never ever whine, lol
But yea i love her. Master at her raft.
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I was introduced to Swift Via a friend. Before that i'd tuned her out because her very early country singles were just not my thing so i just was off listening to other things.
than in 2014. my friend pointed in 1989's direction. i was like yea ok fine i'll try it :lol now i had no idea she ditched the country at that point. and one thing about me.........i love me some Metal and prog like you all. but i'm kind of a sucker for pop more. i lean further that ways.
1989 blew me away with how good it was!!! girl could write a hook and i was.....hooked, lol
Since 2014 i've followed her actively. some stuff i've liked more than others but what a great writer. and i think folklore is probably the best album by a major pop star in decades. evermore i enjoyed but less than folklore. but it's still very good.
and i still don't enjoy her first 2 albums not my thing. Speak now was a major step up. but to me Red was her really planting herself as an artist.
the only Swift album i was disappointed in was Reputation. too much beat dropping trap music. and such whiny lyrics. and my Mom brought e up to never ever whine, lol
But yea i love her. Master at her raft.
I have checked out quite a bit of her pop stuff recently. I like some of it, but I don't feel that is her at her best. Given her lyrical prowess, it feels like storytelling is her greatest strength, and that can lost in the sheen of pop production, although she writes such strong hooks that they still work sometimes. I am a sucker for a well written pop song AND 80's (sounding) material, so her hits from 1989 are right up my alley. Welcome to New York is such a fun little song.
Based on what I have heard, it doesn't feel like Reputation was particularly strong, but I love the sound and vibe of the songs. They have that kind of "night on the town" feel to them. Reminds me a bit of the Nightlife album by Pet Shop Boys in that regard. I do like the song Delicate quite a bit.
I think Folklore is a little better than Evermore - I think the best 7-8 songs from each are pretty even, but while I like everything on Evermore, it feels like the least best songs from Folklore are quite a bit better than the least best songs from Evermore - but I think both albums are major keepers.
Lastly, I know she is pretty proud of the song Lover, and she should be. That is a great song by any standard.
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I was wondering why a thread about Taylor Swift was continously popping up in this forum. I mean, not that it's a sin, this is not the tr00 metal kvlt forum and there's space for a little bit of anything, but I was curious to see a name so famous that I deemed associated with the classic commercial poppy dance-y stuff.
So out of curiosity I went to see what exactly was up with Taylor Swift, and discovered she made not one, but two albums in the acoustic / folkish / indie / minimalistic vein. Checked out the video for cardigan, and loved it, so I went and listened to the whole Folklore album.
It's a cool one! Maybe not all songs are masterpieces, but I love this kind of stuff with an underlying mood or theme, I will definitively pay more attention to the album (I mean, I work from home, I have 8 hours each day to listen to music, it's already in my daily rotation, started yesterday), and then I will move on to Evermore which I understand is more of the same.
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If you enjoy the more folkier aspect of Taylors two new albums I'd recommend 'First Aid Kit' - two Swedish sisters with truly outstanding vocals, they do the Folk Pop Americana meld really well.
Couple of vids.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp3op-DYFG4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veHUZMoKObc
And here's a vid of them singing their song Emmylou with Emmylou Harris is the audience, and she is moved to tears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5A9OCAyIk
Not trying to hijack the thread just adding a band who have a similar sound.
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I was wondering why a thread about Taylor Swift was continously popping up in this forum. I mean, not that it's a sin, this is not the tr00 metal kvlt forum and there's space for a little bit of anything, but I was curious to see a name so famous that I deemed associated with the classic commercial poppy dance-y stuff.
So out of curiosity I went to see what exactly was up with Taylor Swift, and discovered she made not one, but two albums in the acoustic / folkish / indie / minimalistic vein. Checked out the video for cardigan, and loved it, so I went and listened to the whole Folklore album.
It's a cool one! Maybe not all songs are masterpieces, but I love this kind of stuff with an underlying mood or theme, I will definitively pay more attention to the album (I mean, I work from home, I have 8 hours each day to listen to music, it's already in my daily rotation, started yesterday), and then I will move on to Evermore which I understand is more of the same.
Nice! Evermore is almost as good as Folklore, IMO, so I am sure you will enjoy that one as well. The hooks on these albums aren't as immediate as the ones on her pop albums, but they are there, just a bit more subtle. And the more you listen, the more they get stuck in your head. Her ability to twist a phrase lyrically while hitting the hook in her vocal melody at just the right time to match the story she is singing about is masterful.
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Taylor confirmed that Jack Antonoff and Aaron Dressner will be performing with her tonight on the Grammys*. My guess is they will do Cardigan, which was the only number 1 hit from Folklore and is nominated for two awards tonight.
*Props to her for getting me to pay a tiny bit of attention to the Grammy's for the first time in decades.
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Nice little medley of Cardigan, August and Willow. She was clearly singing along to a backing track of herself, but the cabin in the woods/fairy tale visuals were very nice.
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I loved it. Jack Antonoff is a tool - for some reason I just don't like that guy - but the performance was really good. I have nothing bad to say about Taylor Swift at this point.
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Me neither. She seems like a very genuine and kind soul. The constant love she gives to her fans is something to behold; it's no wonder they worship the ground she walks on, haha.
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Album of the Year!! :tup :tup
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Album of the Year!! :tup :tup
Listening to it right now, as I'm doing basically every day since I discovered it. Glad that, as commercial as the Grammy are, they can recognize actual good music when it comes their way!
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Album of the Year!! :tup :tup
Listening to it right now, as I'm doing basically every day since I discovered it. Glad that, as commercial as the Grammy are, they can recognize actual good music when it comes their way!
Now, let's see Evermore win Album of the Year next year...ha! :biggrin:
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Last night's performance (for anyone interested):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzii44SDYFA
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Last night's performance (for anyone interested):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzii44SDYFA
Is she lip syncing? It sounds a little too studio.
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Last night's performance (for anyone interested):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzii44SDYFA
Is she lip syncing? It sounds a little too studio.
It's entirely possible she is lip syncing. The only reason I say that is because it's the Grammys. I don't think any performance is truly "live" at the Grammys. I could be wrong. :dunno:
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There was clearly a backing track, but I couldn't tell if she was singing live the whole time or not. There were times where it seemed like she was harmonizing with a backing vocal of herself. Wouldn't surprise me either way. Still a nice little performance.
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Last night's performance (for anyone interested):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzii44SDYFA
Is she lip syncing? It sounds a little too studio.
It's entirely possible she is lip syncing. The only reason I say that is because it's the Grammys. I don't think any performance is truly "live" at the Grammys. I could be wrong. :dunno:
I forget who it was, but it might have been Megan Thee Stallion, but in and between all the hip-gyrating and breast swaying, she blew the transition and her line started a beat and a half before the mic made it up and her lips started moving.
I don't think Harry Styles was lip-synching though. His performance was early on when they had the "Jools Holland" stage setup, not one of the later dance numbers (which are always suspect).
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I think award shows with big productions are often using backing tracks or straight up lipsync because the pace is so quick and things need to go off without a hitch. If not you get things like that Adele snafu where she was off key. To me it’s no big deal, folks like Eddie Trunk need to get over it.
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Trunk will still be yelling at clouds when he is 80 and donning his ragged Slayer t-shirt.
I forget who it was, but it might have been Megan Thee Stallion, but in and between all the hip-gyrating and breast swaying, she blew the transition and her line started a beat and a half before the mic made it up and her lips started moving.
I don't think Harry Styles was lip-synching though. His performance was early on when they had the "Jools Holland" stage setup, not one of the later dance numbers (which are always suspect).
I have zero issues with stars lip synching, or needing help from backing tracks, when doing dance numbers and whatnot. I don't care how good a shape you are in, all of that moving and running and whatever will affect your singing, and if you want a little help so your vocals don't sound out of breath and weak during a visual spectacle, so be it. Circling back to Taylor, based on what I have read, it sounds like she always sings during his normal concerts when not doing dance numbers, like when doing songs at the piano, but for the songs where she is dancing and moving a lot, she will utilize a backing track and sing along with it.
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Lip syncing is insulting to me.
If Bruce Dickinson can run around stage while singing, I think dancers in better shape can as well. I'd rather listen to someone slightly out of breath really performing than being lied to by phonies. Especially how much they charge for tickets.
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Zook - I agree totally, very well said. If you can't sing live, then don't bother performing live.
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Does that apply to Dream Theater now as well? They use backing tracks now for certain songs, so they should not even bother playing them anymore since they cannot sing them live?
But then that opens up another can of worms in that, if a band cannot perform a song in full live, meaning they have to use certain pre-recorded parts, should they not play that song live either?
Look, I am not advocating lip synching per se, merely saying I understand why some do it on occasion. If there is a singer that sucks live and always has to lip synch, then, yeah, get them off the stage.
But hey, I have said for years that live albums ought to be live albums, warts and all, but if almost every band under the sun is going to fix mistakes and whatnot from the performances to make a live album not a 100% live performance, then I can't pretend to be too outraged about someone pretending to sing on occasion.
Selective outrage is the thing in 2021, though, I get it. ;)
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James is really singing though. That's why I don't enjoy them live anymore.
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Well, same here (the DVD's anyway, I can still enjoy the heck out of going to the actual concerts), but that's a whole different conversation... :lol :lol
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And backing tracks aren't the same as lip syncing. I think backing tracks are fine for recreating harmonies that otherwise can't be reproduced live, especially when the other band members won't or can't harmonize. But downright fake singing to a playback of the studio track is just dishonest and shitty.
I guess in some instances singers would record a one take and lip sync to that, but that's still unacceptable to me. It's even worse when the people with instruments are faking it.
Taylor sounded way too polished in her performance. You'd think someone of her caliber could push for live, but maybe she didn't care and was just being compliant.
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If that was all lip syching the other day, it wasn't to the studio versions. I have listened to Folklore and Evermore enough now to know that those vocals were a little different. Certain inflections and tones were not the same on many occasions, so it is possible she recorded a fresh take of each song in the medley and then sang along to that backing track and it is possible she did lip synch to the fresh take. Doesn't take away from her at all, IMO. I am sure I am fanboying a bit since I am still in the honeymoon phase of getting into her music, but she has taken so much unfair criticism over the years that I am fine with not giving a crap if she lip synched at the freaking Grammy's. :biggrin:
Sidenote: I am bit stunned by a relative of mine who definitely identifies as a feminist, but is totally irrational about Taylor Swift (he rolls his eyes at any mention of her) and buys the "she has a team to write all of her songs for her" narrative. I would think he'd be embracing a female musician of this caliber being so successful; it's rather surprising. No clue where the "she doesn't write her own songs" narrative came from and why it started, but it's hilarious that some ignore the facts and still cling to that narrative.
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I really don't think a lead vocalist should lip synch. I think the use of other backing tracks is ok, but not my personal preference. I understand awards shows can be different to live concerts, which I think is why some artists do lip synch for 'tv performances'. I don't agree with this approach but you can see why it may happen.
I haven't seen the Taylor Swift performance at the grammys but I have seen Taylor Swift live in concert. I'd like to think she was singing live the whole time. She also did have a live band on stage and a number of backing vocalists/dancers, so enough 'live backing' to not need any actual backing tracks but I guess there could have still been some....
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Lip syncing is insulting to me.
If Bruce Dickinson can run around stage while singing, I think dancers in better shape can as well. I'd rather listen to someone slightly out of breath really performing than being lied to by phonies. Especially how much they charge for tickets.
I don't, fundamentally, disagree, but there is a difference between a "regular" concert on a tour intinerary and a one-off performance where you're part of a bigger production.
It's also the steroids problem; no matter how good you are, it's harder than it needs to be to compete with those that are enhanced.
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And backing tracks aren't the same as lip syncing. I think backing tracks are fine for recreating harmonies that otherwise can't be reproduced live, especially when the other band members won't or can't harmonize. But downright fake singing to a playback of the studio track is just dishonest and shitty.
I guess in some instances singers would record a one take and lip sync to that, but that's still unacceptable to me. It's even worse when the people with instruments are faking it.
Taylor sounded way too polished in her performance. You'd think someone of her caliber could push for live, but maybe she didn't care and was just being compliant.
She sang live at a New Year's Eve thing in NYC a couple years ago, and while I watched it live and it wasn't 'bad at all, she got CRUCIFIED in the press and in the followup. Undeservedly, IMO, but still.
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If that was all lip syching the other day, it wasn't to the studio versions. I have listened to Folklore and Evermore enough now to know that those vocals were a little different. Certain inflections and tones were not the same on many occasions, so it is possible she recorded a fresh take of each song in the medley and then sang along to that backing track and it is possible she did lip synch to the fresh take. Doesn't take away from her at all, IMO. I am sure I am fanboying a bit since I am still in the honeymoon phase of getting into her music, but she has taken so much unfair criticism over the years that I am fine with not giving a crap if she lip synched at the freaking Grammy's. :biggrin:
I know that in some cases, the band will play the song "live", meaning they play and sing all the notes, the morning of or the day before in that venue, and that's the version that will be used as a supplement. So it's them playing, live, but not in that moment, for various reasons (more for technical reasons outside the control of the band than actual performance).
Sidenote: I am bit stunned by a relative of mine who definitely identifies as a feminist, but is totally irrational about Taylor Swift (he rolls his eyes at any mention of her) and buys the "she has a team to write all of her songs for her" narrative. I would think he'd be embracing a female musician of this caliber being so successful; it's rather surprising. No clue where the "she doesn't write her own songs" narrative came from and why it started, but it's hilarious that some ignore the facts and still cling to that narrative.
I get not liking her music, I do. And sometimes the 'squad' thing gets a little much for me, but I'm at the point now where it's basically just hate. If that was, say, Alice Cooper or Dream Theater doing what she does, it'd be lauded as above and beyond, but it's her, so... My kid ordered a signed copy of Folklore, and it was only a couple bucks more (go to Myles Kennedy's site and see how much the signed versions are). In the package was the CD, and a sticker, a postcard and a handful of tissue paper stars. Doesn't sound like much but it was a professional package, done right, not cheap. She DOES have a significant hand in the writing and production of her material; almost all of her songs are written by her alone, or her and one or two collaborators. So what's different between that and having Desmond Child, or Robert John "Mutt" Lange (I love writing out his whole name for some reason!) participating in your album?
I think her biggest "problem" is that she's just so big that some things become untenable. Bruce is like that; when I was outside the theater for his Broadway show, he was dropped off by his car and he stopped to wave, and you could tell he wanted to talk or interact, but he just couldn't. The security formed a "box" around him and while I wasn't moving (I was in line for tickets and didn't want to lose my spot) you could sort of see the wave of people starting to migrate over to him, so he ducked inside. It's just not possible for performers of a certain "size" to do things the way a club-circuit act can. And once that happens, it's too hard to avoid that patina of "fake".
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I get not liking her music, I do. And sometimes the 'squad' thing gets a little much for me, but I'm at the point now where it's basically just hate. If that was, say, Alice Cooper or Dream Theater doing what she does, it'd be lauded as above and beyond, but it's her, so... My kid ordered a signed copy of Folklore, and it was only a couple bucks more (go to Myles Kennedy's site and see how much the signed versions are). In the package was the CD, and a sticker, a postcard and a handful of tissue paper stars. Doesn't sound like much but it was a professional package, done right, not cheap. She DOES have a significant hand in the writing and production of her material; almost all of her songs are written by her alone, or her and one or two collaborators. So what's different between that and having Desmond Child, or Robert John "Mutt" Lange (I love writing out his whole name for some reason!) participating in your album?
I think her biggest "problem" is that she's just so big that some things become untenable. Bruce is like that; when I was outside the theater for his Broadway show, he was dropped off by his car and he stopped to wave, and you could tell he wanted to talk or interact, but he just couldn't. The security formed a "box" around him and while I wasn't moving (I was in line for tickets and didn't want to lose my spot) you could sort of see the wave of people starting to migrate over to him, so he ducked inside. It's just not possible for performers of a certain "size" to do things the way a club-circuit act can. And once that happens, it's too hard to avoid that patina of "fake".
A lot to get to with this one...
-I don't care much about her squad of celebrity/music biz friends. Taylor strikes me as someone wanted to be a big star, achieved her goal of being a big star, and is loving being a big star, and she is living it up. And having other friends who are also big stars is part of that for her.
-Regarding what she does for fans, absolutely! I am hard pressed to think of any current musician who is as fan-friendly as she is. She gives the fans constant praise, goes out of her way to meet and interact with them, online and in person, and seems very genuine about it. It is easy to see why her legion of Swifties adore her.
-Re: songwriting, the videos of her geeking out talking about songs are great to watch. You can tell her fingerprints are all over everything she does, even the songs written with collaborators. I love the story about how late at night she had the melody for Lover in her head and then got up out of bed and pretty much wrote the whole song on the piano that night. That kind of spontaneous songwriting is always great to hear stories about.
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Anyway, who's in charge of her Wikipedia page and thinks that every simple description of a song deserves or necessitates to be confirmed by a citation? from Follkore's page:
"Mirrorball" is a folk-tinged, jangle-pop[85] and dream pop[46] song with swirling vocals, pedal steel,[86] snowy tambourine,[58] and twanging guitars,[83] creating a nervous dance-floor sensibility.[8]
And from Evermore's page:
Evermore opens with "Willow", a chill chamber folk[32] love song[20] propelled by picked guitars[18] coupled with glockenspiel, indie-folk orchestrations, programmed drums, and a breathless chorus.[29] "Champagne Problems" is a mournful[33] ballad[29] with spacious,[17] lo-fi, oompah piano chords that entwine with guitar arpeggios, and choir vocals.[18]
Geez it's barely readable :lol do we really need a citation to confirm that song is a ballad?
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Anyone can edit a wikipedia page if I am not mistaken, so that is probably some egghead fan who wants to feel smart and felt the need to do all of that. Because, ya know, we need the word "harmonica" with a hyperlink in case someone doesn't know what one is and wants to find out right away! :lol :lol
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I think one or two others here have said the same thing, but I regularly edit Wiki pages. I don't put any editorial stuff in, but I will do grammar and syntax and what not. Drives me F*******G CRAZY reading a Wiki article that says:
"Bob released his third solo album on May 28, 2008, and will follow up with a tour of England. The live album from that tour is scheduled for release on August 3, 2008 and is expected to have Jim on bass." It's 2021. We KNOW if the tour happened, if the album came out and if Jim was on it. For crap's sake, you're a celebrity; you don't have an intern, an assistant, a KID to update your wiki page? The only thing worse are the pages that seem written by a paid PR rep. "Bob's fantastic new album was released on May 28, 2008. A fabulous, creative explosion of the prog genre, Bob received alcolades from within the industry and the fan-base at large. Bob will follow up with a tour of England that is expected to set the new standard for touring small theaters, and will undoubtedly sell out."
I need to stay off the internet. ;)
I just edited...I think it was one of Seal's album pages just last night. No, wait, it was The Sea Within.
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I just edited...I think it was one of Seal's album pages just last night. No, wait, it was The Sea Within.
Would listen to a band called The Seal Within.
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Would listen to an artist who went by "Bob."
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I just edited...I think it was one of Seal's album pages just last night. No, wait, it was The Sea Within.
Would listen to a band called The Seal Within.
What about The Swift Within?
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Anyone else familiar with the Reputation album?
I stumbled across a YT clip of her writing the melodies for like 7 songs from the album, and what stood out to me was how much the pop sheen of the record sucked away most of the charm. More specifically, the songs Gorgeous, Getaway Car and I Did Something Bad. All sounded lovely in their naked form in the studio when she was perfecting the lyrics and vocal melodies, and then the production was a big step backward for each. All feel like songs that could be good if she ever gave them the Folklore/Evermore treatment and performed them live all stripped down.
Delicate from that record is one bad ass pop/dance tune, though, and the video is awesome.
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Gorgeous, Getaway Car and Delicate are my favorites from that record, the pop sheen doesn't detract, at least to me. But yeah a lot of the rest I can take or leave
edit: I think the clips of her working on the songs are all from the the Miss Americana documentary, on Netflix. It's a real good watch if anyone is curious
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1989 took me by surprise, as I didn't care for any of her previous stuff, so I was hopeful for a continuation of that style. Unfortunately we got an album full of Bad Bloods.
I would later discover that Red is also really good. I only heard the singles from it, and those are all still better than Bad Blood, but not a good representative of the album. Anything before Red I don't care about, and although Folklore and Evermore are vast improvements over Reputation and Lover, I'd be fine not hearing them for a couple years. My wife is a big Taylor Swift fan so I'm subjected to a lot of her stuff.
Reputation is a steaming pile of shit and Lover is a cold pile of shit.
Since she's always genre hopping, I wonder if she'd ever do a rock album. I'd be down as long as it wasn't forced like her angst on Reputation.
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Forgive me the off topic but since I never changed my signature, I might as well live up to it; since we're all liking so much Folklore and Evermoe (I'm starting to listen regularly to that album as well, it feels sightly inferior to Folklore but still enjoyable.... anyway I'm not that versed in the album yet so my opinion might improve with further listenings), may I suggest you another album in the similar style, from Elisa?
https://open.spotify.com/album/7HKE3jo5TRXdKPa5bCrxen
Elisa is an italian pop / rock singer, with a beautiful voice. Ivy is the name of the album that, while it can't be compared directly to Folklore, is in the general ballpark - female singer / songwriter with a beautiful voice, acoustic and mellow stuff, dreamy and delicate mood, minimalistic imaginery of the album.... the main difference with Folklore is that it's not all new music, but it's a mix - some new songs, some covers, and some acoustic versions of songs already released. And as I said it's not a "cousin" album to Folklore but.... the general mood is there, in case you might wanna look for more albums in that style.
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Forgive me the off topic but since I never changed my signature, I might as well live up to it; since we're all liking so much Folklore and Evermoe (I'm starting to listen regularly to that album as well, it feels sightly inferior to Folklore but still enjoyable.... anyway I'm not that versed in the album yet so my opinion might improve with further listenings), may I suggest you another album in the similar style, from Elisa?
https://open.spotify.com/album/7HKE3jo5TRXdKPa5bCrxen
Elisa is an italian pop / rock singer, with a beautiful voice. Ivy is the name of the album that, while it can't be compared directly to Folklore, is in the general ballpark - female singer / songwriter with a beautiful voice, acoustic and mellow stuff, dreamy and delicate mood, minimalistic imaginery of the album.... the main difference with Folklore is that it's not all new music, but it's a mix - some new songs, some covers, and some acoustic versions of songs already released. And as I said it's not a "cousin" album to Folklore but.... the general mood is there, in case you might wanna look for more albums in that style.
yeah Elisa is cool. Her first album is my personal favourite though. (featuring Steve Smith on drums too btw)
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1989 took me by surprise, as I didn't care for any of her previous stuff, so I was hopeful for a continuation of that style. Unfortunately we got an album full of Bad Bloods.
I would later discover that Red is also really good. I only heard the singles from it, and those are all still better than Bad Blood, but not a good representative of the album. Anything before Red I don't care about, and although Folklore and Evermore are vast improvements over Reputation and Lover, I'd be fine not hearing them for a couple years. My wife is a big Taylor Swift fan so I'm subjected to a lot of her stuff.
Reputation is a steaming pile of shit and Lover is a cold pile of shit.
Since she's always genre hopping, I wonder if she'd ever do a rock album. I'd be down as long as it wasn't forced like her angst on Reputation.
Considering that awesome chemistry she had from the start with Aaron Dessner, I don't think a rock album is as out there as some might think. I am sure she will want to work with him again, and since he comes from the rock world, a rock album from her wouldn't surprise me. I saw her rock version of We Are Never Ever Ever Ever Ever Ever Ever Ever Getting Back Together from the 1989 tour on YT the other day, so it wouldn't be territory of which she'd be unfamiliar.
Lover is quite a few too tracks too long, but I think it has some strong material. The title track is a killer tune, one of the best she has ever done, IMO, and I am very fond of Cruel Summer and The Archer as well. Death by a Thousand Cuts is also quite nice. Not a fan of Me!, but while both are a bit in your face with their lyrics, The Man and You Need to Calm Down are both pretty catchy, albeit not standouts.
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I think the songs written across both albums with Aaron Dessner are generally much more interesting than the ones written with Jack Antonoff.
The Dessner twins are pretty damn amazing, love The National.
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I think the songs written across both albums with Aaron Dessner are generally much more interesting than the ones written with Jack Antonoff.
The Dessner twins are pretty damn amazing, love The National.
While I agree that Dessner's contributions to these two albums were invaluable, I find it interesting that if I had to list my current top 5 from the two albums combined, he only has a co-writing credit on one* of them.
Exile
This Is Me Trying
Champaign Problems
Gold Rush
Coney Island*
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Lip syncing is insulting to me.
If Bruce Dickinson can run around stage while singing, I think dancers in better shape can as well. I'd rather listen to someone slightly out of breath really performing than being lied to by phonies. Especially how much they charge for tickets.
Also wanted to add, STOP THE STUPID EFFING DANCING if you can’t sing properly. >:(
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Also wanted to add, STOP THE STUPID EFFING DANCING if you can’t sing properly. >:(
Who do you think is dancing that cannot sing properly?
Also, you do realize that many music fans go to concerts for, ya know, fun, and don't really care if some singers using backing tracks during dance numbers, as long it enhances the show and makes it better, right?
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Also wanted to add, STOP THE STUPID EFFING DANCING if you can’t sing properly. >:(
[/qu
Who do you think is dancing that cannot sing properly?
Also, you do realize that many music fans go to concerts for, ya know, fun, and don't really care if some singers using backing tracks during dance numbers, as long it enhances the show and makes it better, right?
Well, my point was, I'm supposed to be made to believe that fans of this type of music are discerning serious music listeners like prog or metal fans yet they'd rather watch synchronized dancing than listen to their idols actually sing. That's what's goofy to me.
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Also wanted to add, STOP THE STUPID EFFING DANCING if you can’t sing properly. >:(
[/qu
Who do you think is dancing that cannot sing properly?
Also, you do realize that many music fans go to concerts for, ya know, fun, and don't really care if some singers using backing tracks during dance numbers, as long it enhances the show and makes it better, right?
Well, my point was, I'm supposed to be made to believe that fans of this type of music are discerning serious music listeners like prog or metal fans yet they'd rather watch synchronized dancing than listen to their idols actually sing. That's what's goofy to me.
There is so much wrong with that post.
One, just because you like metal or prog doesn't make you a "discerning serious music listener".
Two, just because you might be a "discerning serious music listener" doesn't mean you can't like a more entertainment-based act.
Three, what do you mean by "this type of music"?
I would never categorize myself as a "discerning serious music listener" - that just reeks of pretentious snobbery - but if there was such a category, it's reasonable I might fit. I've seen King Crimson five times, and can discern the differences between the 75 some-odd performances included in the Larks, Starless and Red boxsets. Yet, one of the best concert experiences of my life was Harry Styles in Madison Square Garden. I've also seen the Jonas Brothers twice, and Miley Cyrus once.
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There is so much wrong with that post.
One, just because you like metal or prog doesn't make you a "discerning serious music listener".
Two, just because you might be a "discerning serious music listener" doesn't mean you can't like a more entertainment-based act.
Three, what do you mean by "this type of music"?
I would never categorize myself as a "discerning serious music listener" - that just reeks of pretentious snobbery - but if there was such a category, it's reasonable I might fit. I've seen King Crimson five times, and can discern the differences between the 75 some-odd performances included in the Larks, Starless and Red boxsets. Yet, one of the best concert experiences of my life was Harry Styles in Madison Square Garden. I've also seen the Jonas Brothers twice, and Miley Cyrus once.
I have to admit, I laughed out load at the "serious music listener" comment. I mean, who gets to make that determination?
I suspect that a lot of people might think about some metal fans, "How are you a discerning music listener if you'd rather listen to a guy growl like Cookie Monster than actually sing?"
So yeah, the door swings both ways, and I get thinking that some pop stars who probably need a lot of help in the studio to sound good and then need a backing track live while they dance are probably enjoyed by casual music fans who just want to be entertained and don't give a tinker's damn about the "purity" of a performance, but that does not apply to Ms. Swift. All one has to do is go to YT and check out any of her live performances where it's just her and the piano or her and the acoustic guitar to know that she can sing.
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Just listened to Evermore. Very good. I think I might end up liking it more than Folklore after a few listens.
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Just listened to Evermore. Very good. I think I might end up liking it more than Folklore after a few listens.
It really is pretty damn close. Yea, Folklore has great stuff like This Is Me Trying, August, Mad Woman, Cardigan, Exile, Mirrorball and Epiphany, but oh wait, Evermore has Champaign Problems, Gold Rush, Coney Island, Marjorie, Happiness, Dorothea and Long Story Short! Great songs everywhere!!
Oh, and the studio version of My Tears Ricochet feels like a letdown now compared to the live version from the Long Pond Sessions (link below). Her singing in that live version is just incredible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJJZ1cqFFU0
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No love for Betty? I think it's one of the very best songs on Folklore.
Also another song I love on Evermore is No body, no crime, one of the catchiest of the bunch.
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No love for Betty? I think it's one of the very best songs on Folklore.
Also another song I love on Evermore is No body, no crime, one of the catchiest of the bunch.
I like both of those a lot! In fact, had I kept listing songs from both albums, both likely would have been the next mention from their respective albums.
On the flip side, while I like the song, I don't genuflect to Willow like the average loyal Swiftie out there does :lol, but, again, it's a good song. I like the opening track from both albums, The 1 and Willow, but both are pretty low on the list when I start randomly choosing songs from either album to play.
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Yeah, I'd say both albums start with a good song that isn't however among the very best, and they're followed by a far superior song.
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Agreed. The song Evermore would have been a favorite had Taylor done all of the vocals in that one. As perfect as Justin Vernon's vocals were on Exile, they feel a bit out of place in the Evermore song. The vibe and Taylor's soft vocal is just lovely, and then when he comes in, I feel that the song loses a lot of its luster.
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Did you see what Steven Wilson's album of the year was? Folklore.
https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17857339268491735/
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Did you see what Steven Wilson's album of the year was? Folklore.
https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17857339268491735/
Any way to copy and paste that? I am not on Instagram and you have to log in to see it.
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I'm logged in and still can't get anything. I think it expects me to be on the mobile app instead of using a browser on my laptop. ::)
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It was a link to the story. If you search for Steven Wilson in Instagram, it'll come up. Anyway, here's the relevant screen grab (click to see the full version).
(https://i.ibb.co/tBCtttD/Screenshot-2021-03-27-072329.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tBCtttD)
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It was a link to the story. If you search for Steven Wilson in Instagram, it'll come up. Anyway, here's the relevant screen grab (click to see the full version).
(https://i.ibb.co/tBCtttD/Screenshot-2021-03-27-072329.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tBCtttD)
:tup :tup
In the meantime, if you want to see a fantastic performance by an artist on top of their game, I give you this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB4wxpglkhY
Amazing.
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That chorus... I've often said that "Wildest Dreams" is the perfect pop song.
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I read some criticism of ME! a few days ago in this thread. You are ALL WRONG! It's a brilliant pop tune and our golden retriever likes dancing to it with us :biggrin:
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That chorus... I've often said that "Wildest Dreams" is the perfect pop song.
It's pretty damn great. Anyone who knows me knows I am a sucker for a good pop song, and she has got tons of them. And I think her uncanny knack for writing great vocal melodies is a big reason why she is having success across multiple genres. Regardless of whether her music is dressed up with country twang, pop sheen or folk/indie rock mellowness, you can strip most of her songs down to the bare bones and what you are left with is a song with strong melodies and great hooks. It's why she can take tons of her songs and play with them live with just her voice and her acoustic or piano and they still work.
I read some criticism of ME! a few days ago in this thread. You are ALL WRONG! It's a brilliant pop tune and our golden retriever likes dancing to it with us :biggrin:
Haha, I am sure I will revisit it at some point. It was definitely catchy, but when running through the Lover songs, it just didn't pass the sniff test compared to songs like the title track, The Archer, Death by a Thousand Cuts and Cruel Summer (how in the world was this NOT a single??).
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Anyone else catch her Miss Americana documentary on Netflix?
I watched it tonight and really enjoyed it. She is just so darn likable, down to earth and relatable. I am sure some would watch it and say, "aw, the poor millionaire gets upset sometimes," as if having a lot of money makes real emotions and problems go away, but like the one song says, haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate. hate...:P :P
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You’re really becoming a big fan, huh? Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I get it.
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Seems like it. I always say that how much I like a song or an artist or an album can be demonstrated easily by how often it finds its way into my CD player (or the 2020 equivalent, like my iPhone or iTunes), and I find I listen to her as much as anyone these days. The new albums by Steven Wilson, Transatlantic and LTE are all getting regular, frequent plays with me, but Taylor is staying strong and still getting as much attention in regards to playing time as those three records. I almost always have a default artist, meaning one that for example when I get into my car to go somewhere, if I cannot think of anything specific I want to hear at that moment, I just go to my default artist at that point in time (Rush, Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree have all had long stretches of being my default artist). Right now, Taylor Swift is my default artist. Select songs from Red through Lover are all heavy in the rotation, but Folklore and Evermore continue to dominate. :hat :hat
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Anyone else catch her Miss Americana documentary on Netflix?
I watched it tonight and really enjoyed it. She is just so darn likable, down to earth and relatable. I am sure some would watch it and say, "aw, the poor millionaire gets upset sometimes," as if having a lot of money makes real emotions and problems go away, but like the one song says, haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate. hate...:P :P
I'm not usually one to resort to identity politics issues in situations like this (read any of my P/R posts for proof of that) but with her, I can't help but think it's gender related. Bruce Springsteen shows his human side, and people are screaming for him to run for President. The guy is top-five richest rock stars, estimated at more than a half a BILLION dollars, and yet, he's an everyman. Taylor shows her emotional side and "spoiled rich girl". I know she's got a long way to go before we're discussing legacy, but she's perhaps America's greatest female artists right now (no, Queen Bee, you've got to put a couple more Lemonades out there first) and should be accorded at least a modicum of the respect that comes with that.
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Anyone else catch her Miss Americana documentary on Netflix?
I watched it tonight and really enjoyed it. She is just so darn likable, down to earth and relatable. I am sure some would watch it and say, "aw, the poor millionaire gets upset sometimes," as if having a lot of money makes real emotions and problems go away, but like the one song says, haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate. hate...:P :P
I'm not usually one to resort to identity politics issues in situations like this (read any of my P/R posts for proof of that) but with her, I can't help but think it's gender related. Bruce Springsteen shows his human side, and people are screaming for him to run for President. The guy is top-five richest rock stars, estimated at more than a half a BILLION dollars, and yet, he's an everyman. Taylor shows her emotional side and "spoiled rich girl". I know she's got a long way to go before we're discussing legacy, but she's perhaps America's greatest female artists right now (no, Queen Bee, you've got to put a couple more Lemonades out there first) and should be accorded at least a modicum of the respect that comes with that.
I know this is coming from a new fan who is still in the honeymoon phase, but it feels like her legacy is now set in stone. Regardless of how meaningless the Grammys are to many of us, they mean a lot to the masses, and winning them always looks great on your resume - had DT won either they were nominated for last decade, there would have been much rejoicing amongst the fans and the band would have been thrilled - and with three Album of the Year wins, she a) is now only one of only four artists to do that, b) is the first and only woman to do it, and c) did it with three albums that are completely different from one another. That is legacy defining. Now, I am not saying the Grammys alone are doing the job, when you factor in everything else and then add that to mix, it just feels like her status as a legendary songwriter in popular music is inarguable at this point.
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Sidebar: I watched a repeat of a Saturday Night Live episode from 2014, hosted by Seth Rogen and with Ed Sheeran as the musical guest. Both Taylor Swift and Zooey Deschanel made cameo appearances during Rogen's monologue. At the end, when the host thanks the cast and guests, they were all waving and the camera caught Taylor and Zooey talking then hugging. It was like the cosmos all aligned. All that awesome in one specific location; I'll bet the local seismometers measured a ripple in the firmament. ;) :) :)
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Sidebar: I watched a repeat of a Saturday Night Live episode from 2014, hosted by Seth Rogen and with Ed Sheeran as the musical guest. Both Taylor Swift and Zooey Deschanel made cameo appearances during Rogen's monologue. At the end, when the host thanks the cast and guests, they were all waving and the camera caught Taylor and Zooey talking then hugging. It was like the cosmos all aligned. All that awesome in one specific location; I'll bet the local seismometers measured a ripple in the firmament. ;) :) :)
Haha, just checked out that clip and poor Zooey looked like a munchkin standing next to Taylor (who loves wearing heels to make herself look even taller). :lol
I read a new article today on Taylor's re-recording and thought the part I have italicized below the link was interesting.
https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/taylor-swift-was-stripped-of-her-lifes-work-her-response-was-a-master-class-in-emotional-intelligence.html
But there's one more important piece of the puzzle. While Swift doesn't own the masters of those early albums, she does own the publishing rights, or the copyright for the composition (the musical arrangement and lyrics) of the songs--in many cases because she wrote the songs herself.
This is significant because as the owner of publishing rights, Swift can veto use of her (original) songs when it comes to commercial use, such as in films, TV shows, advertisements, and just about anything else--in effect requiring anyone who wants to license her music to use the new versions, which she owns.
Assuming that is true, that is major leverage, and if I am interpreting it correctly (and please correct me if I am not), she can pretty much prevent Shamrock Capital (who now owns the masters to her first six albums) from leasing her songs out to anyone for commercial use, thereby preventing them from maximizing their ownership of the masters. This is one of the more bad ass flexes I have seen in quite some time in the music industry.
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And good for her. While I understand the legalities of licensing, and it is what it is, if you CAN position yourself in a way that gives you leverage, nothing wrong with that. Maybe with all this current talk of "role models" and such, the young girls coming up can learn a thing or two that the music business isn't just about batting eyelashes, saying shocking things, and working with Max Martin.
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I had never really heard of Max Martin, but I googled him and holy crap that guy has had quite a career. When you look at all of the monster pop stars with whom he has worked and the massive hits of which he was a part, it makes you wonder if he has a knack for bringing out hooks.
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Sidebar: I watched a repeat of a Saturday Night Live episode from 2014, hosted by Seth Rogen and with Ed Sheeran as the musical guest. Both Taylor Swift and Zooey Deschanel made cameo appearances during Rogen's monologue. At the end, when the host thanks the cast and guests, they were all waving and the camera caught Taylor and Zooey talking then hugging. It was like the cosmos all aligned. All that awesome in one specific location; I'll bet the local seismometers measured a ripple in the firmament. ;) :) :)
Haha, just checked out that clip and poor Zooey looked like a munchkin standing next to Taylor (who loves wearing heels to make herself look even taller). :lol
I read a new article today on Taylor's re-recording and thought the part I have italicized below the link was interesting.
https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/taylor-swift-was-stripped-of-her-lifes-work-her-response-was-a-master-class-in-emotional-intelligence.html
But there's one more important piece of the puzzle. While Swift doesn't own the masters of those early albums, she does own the publishing rights, or the copyright for the composition (the musical arrangement and lyrics) of the songs--in many cases because she wrote the songs herself.
This is significant because as the owner of publishing rights, Swift can veto use of her (original) songs when it comes to commercial use, such as in films, TV shows, advertisements, and just about anything else--in effect requiring anyone who wants to license her music to use the new versions, which she owns.
Assuming that is true, that is major leverage, and if I am interpreting it correctly (and please correct me if I am not), she can pretty much prevent Shamrock Capital (who now owns the masters to her first six albums) from leasing her songs out to anyone for commercial use, thereby preventing them from maximizing their ownership of the masters. This is one of the more bad ass flexes I have seen in quite some time in the music industry.
Which probably explains why she herself promoted on social media one commercial and a recent animated movie trailer that featured some of the re-recorded songs. She approved those and more importantly "forced" them to use the new ones which was probably more than fine for the people who made that commercial and movie.
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Oh, I am sure she will use her power to try and ensure that any use of songs from her first six albums in any commercials, trailers, etc. going forward come from her re-recordings, as would anyone else in her position. And her fanbase is so large and fanatical that once these re-recorded songs are on streaming services like Spotify, I am sure many will make sure to only stream the "new" old versions, especially if the rest are as faithful to the originals as Love Story, which I thought sounded nearly identical, outside of her voice sounding older and more mature.
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especially if the rest are as faithful to the originals as Love Story, which I thought sounded nearly identical, outside of her voice sounding older and more mature.
at first I expected her to re-arrange or re-interpret the songs, so I was a little surprised when Love Story (taylor's version) came out and I could barely tell the difference. But now I understand that's really notwhat this is about, she's literally replacing them so the point IS for them to be identical down to the tiniest details. And honestly I don't have a problem with that in this case.
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She released a "new" old song that is coming out on Taylor's Version of Fearless:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFjJs6ZjPe8
I didn't have high expectations because of the era it was written, but I like this quite a bit. Great melodies and that chorus will get stuck in your head. And it even rocks a little at times.
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Indeed, heard it yesterday, it's very catchy!
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Great melodies and that chorus will get stuck in your head.
Stuck in my head after one listen :facepalm:
:biggrin:
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Of course...because it is catchy? ;)
I heard the snippet of the new Fearless (the song) earlier, and then checked out the original. The improvement in her vocals over the years is glaringly apparent to me now. I know she was accused by some of being a bit pitchy in her younger years, and I can see why. To her credit, she heard the criticism and made a conscious effort to improve her singing and did so. She has much more control over her voice now.
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I'll pick up this re-recording on CD, if it's going to be available on that format. The original is one I don't own so more than happy to support her.
Edit: it is indeed available on CD. Purchased :metal
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So I finally got around to watch the Lake Pond Sessions, the "movie" where she plays the entire Folklore album in a cabin in the woods.
Wow. Just wow. Amazing presentation that enhances even more the album!!! I love this kind of stuff, and it's one of the reasons I love "folk" music - I mean, all music I like is enjoyable already as it is, but with - and I use the term in a very broad and generic sense - "folk" music, you can immerse yourself even more in the atmosphere, in the odd instrument, in the time or place the mood of the music suggests. For example, I'll always be able to enjoy Iron Maiden or Dream Theater wherever I am, but hearing folkish or irish music when you're in Ireland is a whole another level (just a random example, I don't need to be in Scotland to enjoy Maiden's The Clansman, but I like when music and geography collide).
So an already beuatiful and very atmospheric album gets brought to a whole another level when played in an intimate setting, alternated with explanations about the songs, the lyrics meaning and the decisions behind the creative process. It's beautifully filmed and all the songs are good as the album version, if not even more.
Bruce Springsteen did a similar thing for his Western Stars album - this acoustic record, whose title lets you easily understand that it deals with western themse and imaginery, was played in its entirety in an ancient barn for a selected list of guests, and just like The Lake Pond Sessions, every song is followed by a brief introduction and explanation for the next one. This kind of musical + visual presentation is rare and it's great to see it happen. Absolutely lovely move from Taylor with this one, I wish she'd do the same for Evermore, maybe in a winter setting!
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I would love to see her do all of Evermore in that kind of environment as well. In a perfect world, she would do that, and then release the Folklore and Evermore live things together as a package Blu-ray deal, but I get the sense that her interest is low in releasing physical products of that type of stuff. Her Reputation concert that was recorded has been on Netflix for a while, so she is probably content with releasing them to streaming services and leaving it at that.
But yeah, those live versions of the Folklore songs are something else. I always thought My Tears Ricochet was one of the lesser songs on it, and then I saw that live version. :eek :eek That song works better with just her lone lead vocal, rather that the studio version which has a lot of double tracking and background embellishment vocals, and the performance she gives is just gut-wrenching.
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So I finally got around to watch the Lake Pond Sessions, the "movie" where she plays the entire Folklore album in a cabin in the woods.
Wow. Just wow. Amazing presentation that enhances even more the album!!! I love this kind of stuff, and it's one of the reasons I love "folk" music - I mean, all music I like is enjoyable already as it is, but with - and I use the term in a very broad and generic sense - "folk" music, you can immerse yourself even more in the atmosphere, in the odd instrument, in the time or place the mood of the music suggests. For example, I'll always be able to enjoy Iron Maiden or Dream Theater wherever I am, but hearing folkish or irish music when you're in Ireland is a whole another level (just a random example, I don't need to be in Scotland to enjoy Maiden's The Clansman, but I like when music and geography collide).
So an already beuatiful and very atmospheric album gets brought to a whole another level when played in an intimate setting, alternated with explanations about the songs, the lyrics meaning and the decisions behind the creative process. It's beautifully filmed and all the songs are good as the album version, if not even more.
Bruce Springsteen did a similar thing for his Western Stars album - this acoustic record, whose title lets you easily understand that it deals with western themse and imaginery, was played in its entirety in an ancient barn for a selected list of guests, and just like The Lake Pond Sessions, every song is followed by a brief introduction and explanation for the next one. This kind of musical + visual presentation is rare and it's great to see it happen. Absolutely lovely move from Taylor with this one, I wish she'd do the same for Evermore, maybe in a winter setting!
I don't remember who it was, but someone here actually - and sincerely - called her "this generation's Bruce Springsteen". I think they were on to something, myself. ;) :) :)
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Never underestimate the power of relatable lyrics. With Bruce, even though he was never the guy that he often is portrayed as, his lyrics are ones to which many can relate. Same goes with Taylor, and the lengths she goes to to connect with fans is something to behold, making her even more relatable.
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listening to one of her big commercial hits You Belong With Me (Taylor's Version) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwp8Ur6tO-8
Honestly if someone played this for me and told me it was the original I'd believe it. Since she started in Country she used to put on a kind of twang in her voice that she didn't naturally have, no too pronounced but it was definitely there, that she eventually stopped doing and she did again for these new versions.
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Even though that early material isn't overly to my liking, I liked a few of the songs I checked out from the new release on YT, so I said what the hell and bought the whole thing on iTunes. Not that she needs my money, but I wanted to support this endeavor.
And the more I think about it, the more I think she is trying to get the Carlyle Group (the current owner of the original masters) to say uncle, cut their losses (or lack of profits), and sell them all back to her with a deal that is all to her liking. I mean, think about it, it would have made the most sense with something like this to give the public in re-releases in chronological order, but, no, she began with her 2nd album, Fearless, her first Album of the Year at the Grammys, which is already proving to be a massive success. Throw in the clip of the new Wildest Dreams that was in that trailer a few weeks back, and this is her coming charging out of the gate with this whole project by laying an immediate smackdown. I think she is fully prepared to re-record them all as planned (if she has not already), but I think she'd be thrilled with a Taylor-friendly deal that gives her total control of the original masters as well. She could then still re-release everything she has already re-recorded along with the originals and other from the vault stuff from other eras in large packages for all of the Swifties out there. Whether the Carlyle Group will tap out and give in remains to be seen, but they can't possibly at this point be expecting to make the profit they were expecting when they made this investment.
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My copy of Fearless (Taylor's Version) arrived an hour ago. Just ripping it. Very nice booklet with lyrics to all the songs including those from the 'vault'. Double CD, too!
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My copy of Fearless (Taylor's Version) arrived an hour ago. Just ripping it. Very nice booklet with lyrics to all the songs including those from the 'vault'. Double CD, too!
The majority of this album likely won't get a lot of play with me past these initial listens, but there are a few here I like enough to endure the bits of country.
I had never heard Forever and Always until yesterday, and the normal version is kinda nice, but the piano-only version is something special.
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Nearly everyone I have spoken to in "real life" about my sudden fandom for Taylor has been shocked by it, and I always had the "yeah, but not the early stuff" disclaimer. But it looks like that disclaimer is going away, as I am enjoying Fearless (Taylor's Version) way more than I thought I would. Honestly, it doesn't even feel like a country album. Feels more like a singer/songwriter album with some country elements and vibe at times.
Forever & Always (both versions) are just slaying me. I literally cannot believe how good the hook is when she sings the below:
And I stare at the phone, he still hasn't called
And then you feel so low you can't feel nothing at all
And you flashback to when he said forever and always
Then again, I have reached the point where I love her singing voice so much now that she could sing the phone book and I'd eat it up with a spoon. The rocker of 40+ years inside me is still wondering how this happened. :lol :lol
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As much as I enjoy her recent two albums I think 'Blank Space' is Satan's Asshole in song form!
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As much as I enjoy her recent two albums I think 'Blank Space' is Satan's Asshole in song form!
You misspelled Bad Blood.
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Yeah, Bad Blood feels like a misfire. I like the pre-chorus "It's so sad to think about the good times...", and the video is kind of entertaining in a "enjoy the fighting and all of the cameos" kinda way, but it is pretty short on redeeming qualities.
I don't mind Blank Space, as it is a catchy little pop tune, and the satirical lyrics are a hoot, but I am much more likely to go for Wildest Dreams, Clean, Out of the Woods or Welcome to NY if I am randomly picking a 1989 song. Oh, and Shake It Off of course.
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I know the Billboard charts are like poison to many, but Taylor is making some major dents in some all-time records this year.
With Fearless (Taylor's Version) debuting at number 1, she now has nine consecutive number 1 studio albums (tied for 3rd all-time). The record is 11 and she could tie or surpass that in the next year once the other re-releases get released.
She also has had nine consecutive studio albums debut at number 1. The record is 10, which she would likely topple in the next 12 months.
The Monkees are the only band to ever have four number 1 albums in the same calendar year, and with two already this year (Evermore back in January, Fearless now), she is poised to tie the record if she does as expected and releases two more re-releases in 2021. And if she would write, record and release a brand new album this year as well, she could end with five this year and get the record.
What's insane is the most cumulative weeks at number 1 on the album charts. She is now tied with Garth Brooks for 3rd all-time with 52 weeks total, with Elvis in 2nd place at 67, and the Beatles still lapping the field with 132 ( :lol :lol). I don't see how anyone ever comes close to that Beatles total. It feels like Gretzky's point total in hockey, where the lead is so insurmountable that the idea of anyone ever topping it is laughable.
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I'm not just trying to be negative, but does it really count of she's releasing the same albums again? It's like Avatar and Avengers Endgame battling for highest box office gross when they keep rereleasing the movies.
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It's cheating a little bit, yeah, but re-releases usually do not do that well if you look at past history (more have done it than I realized). This new version of Fearless is the first re-release to ever hit number 1, and it did that in its first week. That is a tribute of course to her large and insanely loyal fanbase who are eager to buy literally anything she does, but it's not like she's the first superstar artist/band to have a large, dedicated fanbase.
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Does anyone understand how the charts work these days with streaming?
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Does anyone understand how the charts work these days with streaming?
Not really. I was surprised earlier to read that YT streams now count towards the charts? I wonder how that works. Does it only count as a view for the song if posted by the artist or their label? And what if there are two new ones for it, like how Taylor releases one of the song and then one as a lyric video, do both of those count or just one and if so which one? So many questions...
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I don't know about videos, but every remix goes into the charts for the original song, that's why Taylor released so many versions of Willow last year.
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Ah okay, that makes sense. I think it's clear that chart success and winning awards is something she craves, but I think she manages to stay true to herself and makes the music she wants*...she just wants the massive success to go along with it. And considering how well she has done, it's hard to argue with the end results at this point. And let's face it, what music artist doesn't want massive success? It harkens back to what Devin Townsend once said about how he wants his music to be heard by as many people as possible.
*Case in point, I remember a quote of hers about Folklore about how she had no idea how it would be received or if it would be radio-friendly, but she didn't care.
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Oh I don't judge her for any of it, you have to play the game and she's doing a marvelous job at trying to break away from that a little bit. I think we're about 5-10 years away from her "don't give a fuck, will not even market anything I surprise-drop" era but I'm still enjoying her as a pop star.
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Oh I don't judge her for any of it, you have to play the game and she's doing a marvelous job at trying to break away from that a little bit. I think we're about 5-10 years away from her "don't give a fuck, will not even market anything I surprise-drop" era but I'm still enjoying her as a pop star.
I think her 2020 albums showed her breaking away from pop quite a bit (the pop beats that were there at times were pretty subdued), but we'll see if her next new studio album reverts back to the overtly pop cosmetics found on 1989, Reputation and Lover.
Can't recall if we talked about this already or not, but should be interesting to see when her next tour is and what she plays. Looking at her past history of headlining, she always heavily features her newest album - even on the Reputation tour, when she had five prior albums to pull from as well, about 2/3 of the set list came from Reputation - but that will be hard to do the next time. She now has three albums she has yet to tour, and who knows if another new one is coming before the eventual-next tour, so she will have some big decisions to make. I always like debating what songs a band or artist will play on tours, so it's fun to think about. Feels like Shake It Off, We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together and Love Story are the songs likely to the "it is getting played on every tour going forward" treatment, and Blank Space might fall into that category as well. I thought it was neat how on that last tour, she kept one spot open every night to play something different with just her and the acoustic, as it gave her the opportunity to play tons of songs that wouldn't have gotten played otherwise on the tour.
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I have a selfish idea for her next tour:
Set 1:
Folklore in its entirety
Set 2:
Evermore in its entirety
encore:
Whatever her three biggest hits are
I'd go and see that ;D
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what I would love is a touring version what she did on the long pond sessions. Just add a few more musicians and backup singers but build it around the core trio of Taylor, Jack Antonoff and Aaron Dessner. A smaller scale live production than what what she did before because I don’t know how you can top that, better to go a different way.
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How 'bout a Metal album? If she's gonna genre hop every album, let's get heavy.
Imagine the outrage from her die-hard fans.
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Yeah, I am not sure most of the Folklore and Evermore material is conducive to a stadium tour. Good for a few songs as a comedown, similar to when she does songs by herself live (with an acoustic or on the piano), but not for songs like that to dominate a set list. Feels like a more intimate setting would work, like a theater tour or something, but she might be too big for a tour like that now. Ticket sales would be a cluster as well with so few and prices likely to be insane once the scalpers gets their mitts on many of them.
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How 'bout a Metal album? If she's gonna genre hop every album, let's get heavy.
Imagine the outrage from her die-hard fans.
Pink should definitely do a hard rock/metal album - she's got the vocal chops and front woman attitude for it.
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How 'bout a Metal album? If she's gonna genre hop every album, let's get heavy.
Imagine the outrage from her die-hard fans.
Pink should definitely do a hard rock/metal album - she's got the vocal chops and front woman attitude for it.
Also Lady Gaga! come on, she's a metalhead waiting to happen!
I would also love for Lady Gaga to do her own "folklore". Go find any performance of her with only vocals and piano for Bad Romance, The Edge of Glory (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS8KFgSB-Vo) or even Paparazzi, she could totally pull off an acoustic / intimate album (and in a sense she already did one, Joanne, which was kinda country-ish).
I mean, this is not official as far as I understood and it's just a fan remix, but a whole album like this? sign me in! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWAbtWU_GGY
(Well, not exactly all like that, but you get the gist of it, an album in the style of Folklore)
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As wonderful as Taylor's natural singing voice is, I don't think she could do metal and pull it off. I can't imagine that being a genre she'd want to try, anyway,
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As wonderful as Taylor's natural singing voice is, I don't think she could do metal and pull it off. I can't imagine that being a genre she'd want to try, anyway,
Could be something like Amaranthe but with only female vocals. I wish they'd do that now. Anything different would be welcome.
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Speaking of pop stars doing something heavier, I still think "Beautiful Dangerous" is one of the best songs on the first Slash solo record (and I LOVE that record). Her version of Paradise City from the bonus disk is solid too.
Remember too that Patty Smythe was asked by Ed to be the singer of Van Halen after Dave left the first time.
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Remember too that Patty Smythe was asked by Ed to be the singer of Van Halen after Dave left the first time.
That still sounds so weird. Considering VH was total party rock, with lyrics usually about women and sex and drinking and partying, it is hard to imagine what they would have sounded like with a female singer.
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Remember too that Patty Smythe was asked by Ed to be the singer of Van Halen after Dave left the first time.
That still sounds so weird. Considering VH was total party rock, with lyrics usually about women and sex and drinking and partying, it is hard to imagine what they would have sounded like with a female singer.
Especially one that came out of that New York punk-ish scene (Scandal wasn't punk at all, and Smythe came a little later, but she was married/partners with Richard Hell who was a big part of that NYC scene along with the other Patti Smith, The Ramones, The Talking Heads and Blondie).
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I think Reputation was an interesting idea that failed in context. In my opinion her voice is not made for darker sounding music. That's why Lover and Folklore work for me. They play to her strengths.
Had to quote this to address Reputation which I have been listening to quite a bit lately...
I get the criticisms I have read about it. It is a bit overproduced at times (her voice doesn't need to be soaked in effects that much), for one, and it probably could have lost a few songs and been better overall...and yet I keep coming back to it. I love the sound and vibe of it. While her other pop albums, 1989 and Lover, are brighter and shinier, Reputation is dirty and gritty and dark. No, it doesn't always work, but it's one of those flawed albums that I can just turn on and enjoy for what it is, warts and all.
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How 'bout a Metal album? If she's gonna genre hop every album, let's get heavy.
Imagine the outrage from her die-hard fans.
She did do that very awkward concert with Def Leppard way back...
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I saw a few clips of that on YT. Awkward is not the one word I would use for it, but I am not sure those songs best suited her vocal style, at the time anyway. It did show that there is certainly a rocker in her. She once called U2 her favorite band, that clip of her and Bryan Adams doing Summer of '69 with her out there rocking next to him with her electric guitar was very much a killer rock moment, and she did that rocked up version of We Are Never... on the 1989 tour, so I think there is still a full-on rock (not metal) album in her; it's just a matter of, will she ever do it?
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I saw a few clips of that on YT. Awkward is not the one word I would use for it, but I am not sure those songs best suited her vocal style, at the time anyway. It did show that there is certainly a rocker in her. She once called U2 her favorite band, that clip of her and Bryan Adams doing Summer of '69 with her out there rocking next to him with her electric guitar was very much a killer rock moment, and she did that rocked up version of We Are Never... on the 1989 tour, so I think there is still a full-on rock (not metal) album in her; it's just a matter of, will she ever do it?
It wasn’t her performance so much as the age discrepancy. Not sure how old she was but it just seemed kind of icky. I definitely think she could pull off more of a rock thing if she wanted to. She’s done it with things like You Belong With Me before.
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It wasn’t her performance so much as the age discrepancy. Not sure how old she was but it just seemed kind of icky. I definitely think she could pull off more of a rock thing if she wanted to. She’s done it with things like You Belong With Me before.
Red is the other album of hers I have been digging into quite a bit lately, and that one actually rocks a little at times. It almost feels like she was working towards a rock album, with that album being the precursor to the full-blown one, but then she made the sudden turn and went full pop with 1989. I can totally see why a lot of fans think that Red is her best album. There is a little bit of everything on there, and the songwriting is really strong.
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So I created my "Folklore ultimate edition" combining my favorite versions of the original album, and the Lake Pond versions. Here's what will ultimately end on my playlists and muuuuusic playyeeeeers:
The 1 (original)
Cardigan (original)
The Last Great American Dynasty (original)
Exile (original)
My Tears Ricochet (original)
Mirrorball (Long Pond version)
Seven (Long Pond version)
August (Long Pond version)
This Is Me Trying (Long Pond version)
Illicit Affairs (original)
Invisible String (Long Pond version)
Mad Woman (original)
Epiphany (Long Pond version)
Betty (original)
Peace (Long Pond version)
Hoax (original)
The Lakes (original)
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Interesting. I literally never listen to August, Illicit Affairs or Exile from Folklore anymore. I go for the Long Pond versions of each now instead. The Lakes is a close call as well.
I also think her version that she did of Betty at the country music awards thing late last year (it's on YT) is the best version of that one, even with the clean lyric in the chorus. It's just her, the acoustic and the harmonica, and her vocal performance there is just money.
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Oops, I forgot to mention My Tears Ricochet. The Folklore version is nice, but the Long Pond version is heavenly. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Yeah, My Tears Ricochet was the one I was most undecided about, I still like enough the original to keep it but the Long Pond version is obviously cool.
Cardigan and Betty (because of the harmonica) were the ones I was mostly confident about in their original versions, and the group from Mirrorball to August is the one that I think improved the most on Long Pond. Also the LP version of This is Me Trying makes it more poignant and highlights more the lyrics.
The rest was basically a toss, with no major difference to make me clearly say "yeah, this version is better because of this".
I was also paying attention to the beautiful lyrics of The Lakes:
I'm not cut out for all these cynical clones
These hunters with cell phones...
I've come too far to watch some namedropping sleaze
Tell me what are my words worth...
I want auroras and sad prose
I want to watch wisteria grow right over my bare feet
'Cause I haven't moved in years
And I want you right here...
Take me to the lakes where all the poets went to die
I don't belong, and my beloved, neither do you
Those Windermere peaks look like a perfect place to cry
I'm setting off, but not without my muse...
Basically this is a very elegant, poetic and sweet way to say "Yeah, I had enough of you annoying fuckers and all your shit, I'm a gonna leave you all behind and fuck off into the nature where I can get some peace of mind, so long losers" :lol
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Yeah, My Tears Ricochet was the one I was most undecided about, I still like enough the original to keep it but the Long Pond version is obviously cool.
Cardigan and Betty (because of the harmonica) were the ones I was mostly confident about in their original versions, and the group from Mirrorball to August is the one that I think improved the most on Long Pond. Also the LP version of This is Me Trying makes it more poignant and highlights more the lyrics.
The rest was basically a toss, with no major difference to make me clearly say "yeah, this version is better because of this".
I was also paying attention to the beautiful lyrics of The Lakes:
I'm not cut out for all these cynical clones
These hunters with cell phones...
I've come too far to watch some namedropping sleaze
Tell me what are my words worth...
I want auroras and sad prose
I want to watch wisteria grow right over my bare feet
'Cause I haven't moved in years
And I want you right here...
Take me to the lakes where all the poets went to die
I don't belong, and my beloved, neither do you
Those Windermere peaks look like a perfect place to cry
I'm setting off, but not without my muse...
Basically this is a very elegant, poetic and sweet way to say "Yeah, I had enough of you annoying fuckers and all your shit, I'm a gonna leave you all behind and fuck off into the nature where I can get some peace of mind, so long losers" :lol
This is just legendary:
Take me to the lakes where all the poets went to die
I don't belong, and my beloved, neither do you
Those Windermere peaks look like a perfect place to cry
I'm setting off, but not without my muse...
How beautiful.
The "I've come too far....... words worth" line is about Scooter Braun, with whom she's in a dispute over her masters and the impetus for her re-recording her older material. ("Words worth"... get it?)
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Wordsworth is one of the "lake poets" mentioned in the song, along with Coleridge and Southey.
Actually the Windermere lake is very pretty, it reminds a little bit of upstate NY where she filmed the Long Pond Sessions, so it doesn't surprise me that she's into that place.
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This is just legendary:
Take me to the lakes where all the poets went to die
I don't belong, and my beloved, neither do you
Those Windermere peaks look like a perfect place to cry
I'm setting off, but not without my muse...
How beautiful.
The "I've come too far....... words worth" line is about Scooter Braun, with whom she's in a dispute over her masters and the impetus for her re-recording her older material. ("Words worth"... get it?)
The Long Pond session version is worth watching just for the glare she gives right at the camera when she sings the "namedropping sleaze" line. She might as well have said "F You, Scooter!" right into the camera. :lol She's a nice lady, but if you do her wrong, look out, which is almost refreshing since nice people are often misjudged as also being pushovers.
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Willow as a medieval tune by Hildegard von Blingin' (Bardcore):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suxKt2wspg8
Yet another cool rendition from an amazing channel!
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Willow as a medieval tune by Hildegard von Blingin' (Bardcore):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suxKt2wspg8
Yet another cool rendition from an amazing channel!
That was very well done! The song already has kind of a witchy feel, so it was an easy transition to medieval. :hat
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So I created my "Folklore ultimate edition" combining my favorite versions of the original album, and the Lake Pond versions. Here's what will ultimately end on my playlists and muuuuusic playyeeeeers:
The 1 (original)
Cardigan (original)
The Last Great American Dynasty (original)
Exile (original)
My Tears Ricochet (original)
Mirrorball (Long Pond version)
Seven (Long Pond version)
August (Long Pond version)
This Is Me Trying (Long Pond version)
Illicit Affairs (original)
Invisible String (Long Pond version)
Mad Woman (original)
Epiphany (Long Pond version)
Betty (original)
Peace (Long Pond version)
Hoax (original)
The Lakes (original)
To touch on this again, I think I agree now about Mirrorball. I hadn't listened to the Long Pond version in a bit, but it popped up the other day and that is just glorious. Some of the Long Pond versions benefit a lot by being just her one vocal throughout instead of the many vocal overdubs on the studio versions. Don't get me wrong, those are all great on Folklore, but hearing the versions with just her one voice and no other overdubs is really nice.
On the flip side, I do not agree about Epiphany. That was one of the first songs that sold me on her back in December, and I won't go so far as to say she struggles with it on the Long Pond sessions, just that her vocal performance isn't nearly as good there as on the Folklore version, IMO.
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I know it's all about the music in this thread and that's as it should be but real quick our girl was just at an award show the UK and, well...
(https://www.usmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Taylor-Swifts-Sparkly-Crop-Top-Stole-Show-2021-BRIT-Awards-004.jpg?w=900&quality=86&strip=all)
(https://celebmafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/taylor-swift-brit-awards-2021-14_thumbnail.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1I7piQXsAE0UNN?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1IvpJwXMAAh1Ds?format=jpg&name=900x900)
What a gorgeous woman
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She’s definitely a looker.
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Not a fan of the bangs but yeah, she can definitively take me to the lakes where all the poets went to die.
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It's a cliche, but her attitude, personality and the way she carriers herself makes her 10 times more attractive. She is a pretty lady already, not a head-turner, but her overall awesomeness just makes her gorgeous. Those legs sure help as well. :P
That said, I am not wild about the red lipstick look. I know that is her thing, but I think she looks far more attractive with less makeup and lighter touches. Her performance of Lover on SNL back in 2019 was her at her most attractive, IMO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmipFjOtMA8
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It's a cliche, but her attitude, personality and the way she carriers herself makes her 10 times more attractive. She is a pretty lady already, not a head-turner, but her overall awesomeness just makes her gorgeous. Those legs sure help as well. :P
That said, I am not wild about the red lipstick look. I know that is her thing, but I think she looks far more attractive with less makeup and lighter touches. Her performance of Lover on SNL back in 2019 was her at her most attractive, IMO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmipFjOtMA8
I'm not going to argue with that. That whole SNL package - the look, the talent, the setting (just her and a piano), the song, the green - is pretty dag-gone sexy if you're asking me! I do sort of like the red-lipstick thing generally, though (as long as it remains on the lips; I don't like it when the lipstick carves it's own territories). :)
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It's a cliche, but her attitude, personality and the way she carriers herself makes her 10 times more attractive. She is a pretty lady already, not a head-turner, but her overall awesomeness just makes her gorgeous. Those legs sure help as well. :P
That said, I am not wild about the red lipstick look. I know that is her thing, but I think she looks far more attractive with less makeup and lighter touches. Her performance of Lover on SNL back in 2019 was her at her most attractive, IMO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmipFjOtMA8
I'm not going to argue with that. That whole SNL package - the look, the talent, the setting (just her and a piano), the song, the green - is pretty dag-gone sexy if you're asking me! I do sort of like the red-lipstick thing generally, though (as long as it remains on the lips; I don't like it when the lipstick carves it's own territories). :)
:lol :lol, exactly. And I agree about the green! The combo of the green with her hair color there and the lighter makeup made her look radiant.
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This really isn't lighter makeup, it's just lighter colored, softer textured lipstick :lol She is wearing full coverage foundation, blush, bronzer, highlighter, false eyelashes, eyeliner (in a sliiiightly lighter application than her usual) and at least three different eyeshadow colors. The truly lighter makeup starts on Folklore.
I do agree this is her best lipstick color, and she does go a liiiiittle too dark and cool-undertoned with the red lipstick sometimes, but most of the time she gets it right and for selfish reasons I love seeing her in red anyway. I can't wear anything less than true red on the lips because of my coloring, and you really have to babysit those stronger colors, you can't just put them on and forget about it, so it's nice to see a peachy blonde who *can* wear all those easy colors in a strong red.
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This really isn't lighter makeup, it's just lighter colored, softer textured lipstick :lol She is wearing full coverage foundation, blush, bronzer, highlighter, false eyelashes, eyeliner (in a sliiiightly lighter application than her usual) and at least three different eyeshadow colors. The truly lighter makeup starts on Folklore.
I do agree this is her best lipstick color, and she does go a liiiiittle too dark and cool-undertoned with the red lipstick sometimes, but most of the time she gets it right and for selfish reasons I love seeing her in red anyway. I can't wear anything less than true red on the lips because of my coloring, and you really have to babysit those stronger colors, you can't just put them on and forget about it, so it's nice to see a peachy blonde who *can* wear all those easy colors in a strong red.
Yeah. This :lol
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It lasted 6 pages before this thread started to become creepy :biggrin:
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I think the word you’re looking for is horny and on the internet that’s a constant :lol and I did say the thread is about the music, it was just a detour. ;)
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It's 5 pages of music and a post of a woman explaining makeup to men, it's not that bad ;D
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Yeah, I think we've done a good job at keeping this thread mostly about the music.
Anyone else notice in her speech the other day that she said he had done three albums during this pandemic? The natural assumption is that she meant Folklore, Evermore and then the re-recorded version of Fearless, but what if she was being sly and has a 3rd brand new album ready to go here soon? Dare to dream...
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It's 5 pages of music and a post of a woman explaining makeup to men, it's not that bad ;D
And out of everyone here, I'm having the most trouble keeping this respectful and separate from my insane attraction to Taylor Swift anyway :lol
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It's 5 pages of music and a post of a woman explaining makeup to men, it's not that bad ;D
And out of everyone here, I'm having the most trouble keeping this respectful and separate from my insane attraction to Taylor Swift anyway :lol
(https://static.billboard.com/files/2021/04/taylor-swift-grammy-2021-billboard-1548-1617829372-compressed.jpg)
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If that was a gif that winked, it would have been one of the greatest posts I've ever seen on this forum. :) :) :)
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If that was a gif that winked, it would have been one of the greatest posts I've ever seen on this forum. :) :) :)
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlimsyImpossibleBoubou-max-1mb.gif)
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Haters gonna hate, since it's not a perfect vocal, but this is about as good as it gets for me:
https://youtu.be/XJwE8Lg2fZk
GREAT song (makes me cry, seriously), honest vocal, no frills, lights, dancing, or any of that and she's got 16,000 held captive.
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That was very nice!
Anyone who thinks she cannot sing simply does not know what they are talking about. Is she a perfect singer with the most awesome range ever? Nope, but neither was Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, Mick Jagger, Madonna, Bono and a score of other legends. Her (what many would call) vocal imperfections are part of the charm when it comes to her singing, and she has one of the best low registers I've ever heard, which is largely why Folklore and Evermore worked so well.
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She started at 16, so we have a lot of albums and tours where she's simply singing with a voice that's not that mature. Pivoting to strengthening her lower range was the best move she could pull, her airy falsetto is pleasant enough for when she actually needs high notes in songs, and as much as her belting has improved over the years, she's never gonna get praised for that as much as she's getting praised for her low range now, so it makes sense to partially sacrifice one for the other.
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Using some of the modern pop studio tricks, like that robotic voice at the beginning of Getaway Car that literally sounds like a computer singing, probably has convinced some that she needs help to sound good, but all you have to do is check out her many live performances of just her and her guitar (or piano) to see that she can sing. Of course, these are probably the same people who would bitch about her using a backing track for help during live performances during a dance number, but I am pretty sure those people aren't her target audience. ;) :lol
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Using some of the modern pop studio tricks, like that robotic voice at the beginning of Getaway Car that literally sounds like a computer singing, probably has convinced some that she needs help to sound good, but all you have to do is check out her many live performances of just her and her guitar (or piano) to see that she can sing. Of course, these are probably the same people who would bitch about her using a backing track for help during live performances during a dance number, but I am pretty sure those people aren't her target audience. ;) :lol
Well, I guess I’d be one of those people because I’d much rather hear her with just a guitar instead of watching dance numbers filled up with backing tracks.
I feel the same way about another pop phenom in Mariah Carey. Love it when she does her ballads, where you can really feel the power of her voice and talent, but will take a hard pass on her hip hop / dance numbers.
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Using some of the modern pop studio tricks, like that robotic voice at the beginning of Getaway Car that literally sounds like a computer singing, probably has convinced some that she needs help to sound good, but all you have to do is check out her many live performances of just her and her guitar (or piano) to see that she can sing. Of course, these are probably the same people who would bitch about her using a backing track for help during live performances during a dance number, but I am pretty sure those people aren't her target audience. ;) :lol
Well, I guess I’d be one of those people because I’d much rather hear her with just a guitar instead of watching dance numbers filled up with backing tracks.
I feel the same way about another pop phenom in Mariah Carey. Love it when she does her ballads, where you can really feel the power of her voice and talent, but will take a hard pass on her hip hop / dance numbers.
Well, it doesn't have to be one or the other. ;) Also, it looks like she always brings backup singers live as well, so they fill out the sound nicely during the choruses at times as well, and Taylor doesn't have to go all-out vocally in every part of every song (and all of her songs have a lot of singing). Seems smart to me. Rather than blowing out her voice by the time she is 35, this strategy should preserve it for the long haul.
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watching Long Pond Sessions again. Perfect lazy sunday morning activity while drinking coffee.
I really hope she does more of this in the future
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I am sure she has got a lot of ideas floating around her head for touring, but I'd love to see a theater tour in the winter where she take a Long Pond Sessions-type thing on the road, with a set list consisting of mostly Folklore and Evermore songs and then a few others from albums past. She could easily do a quick tour of like 8-10 weeks, doing several nights in each city to give more fans a chance at tickets given how huge she is and how limited tickets would be for a theater show, and then take a bit of time off for the next big stadium tour.
Or she could just do a Long Pond Sessions for the Evermore album and make us all happy. :coolio :hat
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I am sure she has got a lot of ideas floating around her head for touring, but I'd love to see a theater tour in the winter where she take a Long Pond Sessions-type thing on the road, with a set list consisting of mostly Folklore and Evermore songs and then a few others from albums past. She could easily do a quick tour of like 8-10 weeks, doing several nights in each city to give more fans a chance at tickets given how huge she is and how limited tickets would be for a theater show, and then take a bit of time off for the next big stadium tour.
I would be there in a heartbeat. If I know that at least 80-85% of the show is Folklore and Evermore and it's a laid back, theater production, I am so there.
Or she could just do a Long Pond Sessions for the Evermore album and make us all happy. :coolio :hat
YES!!!!
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Tickets would sell out instantly, so securing one would be extremely difficult, but I'd be all over it.
In my head, I imagine a 20-22 set list every night, with around 10-12 that get played every night, and then the rest rotating to where she finds a way to play every Folklore and Evermore song at some point on the tour. Playing the trilogy of Cardigan, August and Betty all in a row feels inevitable for whatever her next tour is, and I am sure Willow would be an every nighter, and I could see stuff like Mirrorball, Champagne Problems and No Body No Crime being constants as well. And just think, how awesome would be if she got Justin Vernon to appear at a show or two, just so they could do Exile and Evermore those nights. The possibilities are endless!
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Several years back I was watching WWE Raw, and Seth Rollins was cutting a promo. During his promo he used the word caveat. After that, I noticed EVERYONE using that word.
This time around, Taylor Swift uses the word precipice in a song, and once again, I'm hearing it all the time. I doubt they are responsible for starting this trend of word use, but it's really weird.
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Probably just makes you more aware of it, although I did see a blurb a while back about how sales of cardigans this past winter were much higher than normal. :lol
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Several years back I was watching WWE Raw, and Seth Rollins was cutting a promo. During his promo he used the word caveat. After that, I noticed EVERYONE using that word.
This time around, Taylor Swift uses the word precipice in a song, and once again, I'm hearing it all the time. I doubt they are responsible for starting this trend of word use, but it's really weird.
That's a common thing; many here don't go into P/R territory, but I've noted that with the words "terrifying" and "gravitas" as well.
EDIT: "Unhinged" as well.
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Speaking of which, to those of you who are fans, how do you rate Taylor as a lyricist?
I think she is most excellent. I always say that my favorite lyricists are the ones where I often notice them in a good way when listening to the songs. My top 3 is pretty set in stone at this point - Neil Peart (Rush), Roger Waters (Pink Floyd/solo) and Ben Gibbard (Death Cab for Cutie/The Postal Service) - but I might put Taylor now in my next tier.
The below lyric from Champagne Problems is one of my favorites (such a clever way of saying, "he held the door open for me and gave me his coat to keep me warm.").
Your Midas touch on the Chevy door
November flush and your flannel cure"
And of course I absolutely love the lyric, "I don't like that falling feels like flying till the bone crush," from Gold Rush.
Sure, she has her fair share of lightweight pop lyrics (ME, the bridge in Shake It Off, We Are Never Ever Ever Ever Ever Getting Back Together), but she has more than enough gems for me to rate her highly. Like the others I listed above, the lyrics stand out to me in a good way in the great majority of her songs every time I listen.
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"Right where you left me" is a great recent lyric. "All Too Well" is an all timer in my book.
But while she has great individual lines her biggest strenght as a lyricist is obviously the storytelling aspect.
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I still know 3-4 songs outside of the acoustic albums, but the lyrics on Folklore and Evermore are great.
I love all the little connections in the trilogy of Cardigan / August / Betty, like the mentioning of the cardigan and the "she said James get in, let's drive" moment seen from the perspective of both characters.
I also became moderately obsessed with The Lakes (Now my tablet has a background image of Windermere), I love the "I'm fed up with all you annoying losers, I'm gonna piss off into the nature, so long" message, it reasonates with everyone who has a lovely place in the nature they like to go to.
No Body, No Crime is also a cool little dark story, with just four lines she manages to explain how she will get away with murder, that's brilliant.
It's also funny how she casually drops some F-bombs here and there, she's all sweet and delicate talking about the girl, "she would have made such a lovely bride" and then out of nowhere "what a shame she's fucked in the head" :lol
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I have to really think who my top three lyricists are. That's a great question.
Candidates:
Fish
Peart
Banks (Tony, from Genesis)
Butler (Geezer, from Sabbath)
Morse (Neal, from, well, Neal Morse)
Gillan (Ian, from Deep Purple)
Jagger
The problem is, all have great examples of their lyrics, but all have some pretty strong duds as well.
I like lyrics from Steven Tyler and David Lee Roth as well (I think ADKOT is one of the best albums I've ever heard from a lyrical perspective).
Taylor Swift certainly fits into that category.
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Eh, Roth's lyrics are interesting considering the style, but putting him in the conversation with best lyricists is like putting Fast Times at Ridgemont High in the same tier with The Godfather II when talking about cinematic masterpieces. ;) (yes, I realize we are talking about favorites, not best, per se :) )
I do think The Lakes is one of Taylor's best as well, and I forgot to mention This Is Me Trying yesterday. That whole second verse is just next level lyric writing.
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Lived the first 13 years of my life in 4 miles from Windermere, can confirm it's a place you go to die - it's basically one huge retirement home :biggrin:
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Lived the first 13 years of my life in 4 miles from Windermere, can confirm it's a place you go to die - it's basically one huge retirement home :biggrin:
I think only old people can afford houses there :D but it must have been cool to have at hand so many nice hikes and landscapes!
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Lived the first 13 years of my life in 4 miles from Windermere, can confirm it's a place you go to die - it's basically one huge retirement home :biggrin:
I think only old people can afford houses there :D but it must have been cool to have at hand so many nice hikes and landscapes!
It's got a bit (well a lot) of a reputation for snobbery, my Mum didn't like living there at all. Depict only living 4 miles away in Staveley we very rarely went into Windermere itself. The Lake District itself has some nice parts though, but I guess when you grow up somewhere it loses it's appeal somewhat? I've only been back once since we left (32 years ago!).
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Oh yeah, that's true for everyone I guess. I live right outside Milan, before internet orders my go-to place to buy metal CDs was a shop in the underground premises right beneath the cathedral, a magnificent and awesome white gothic big church. There are people who come from all over the world to see it, and often I was just going in that underground shop and coming home, without even bothering to take a couple of steps to go to the surface and admire the church. I live here, I've always seen it, it's there within reach whenever I feel like seeing it. Don't need to make a point to see it on purpouse.
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Invisible String. GTFO. What a perfect meld of all that makes her, her. Grand insight into the human condition ("Isn't it just so pretty to think, all along there was some invisible string tying you to me"), blunt personal honesty ("cold was the steel of my axe to grind for the boys who broke my heart"), stark observation ("Bold was the waitress.... she said I looked like an American singer") and yet never losing the core emotion at hand ("Something wrapped all of my past mistakes in barbed wire, chains around my demons, wool to brave the seasons, one single thread of gold tied me to you").
Big fan of "Mad Woman" too.
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Yeah, Invisible String is a good one. I like how she follows the "cold was the steel of my axe to grind for the boys who broke my heart" line with "now I send their baby's presents," which apparently references her sending a baby gift to Joe Jonas (whom she dated when she was like 18) and Sophie Turner (a hardcore Swiftie) following the birth of their first child.
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Big fan of "Mad Woman" too.
Indeed! great argument against the "bitches be crazy" thing. Also, one of the most memorable and catchy choruses of the album.... "every time you call me crazy I get more crazy, what about that?"
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Big fan of "Mad Woman" too.
Indeed! great argument against the "bitches be crazy" thing. Also, one of the most memorable and catchy choruses of the album.... "every time you call me crazy I get more crazy, what about that?"
I like the lyrics in that one a lot as well, although the f-bomb in the first verse is the one on the two 2020 albums that I feel was a bit unnecessary (all of the others seem to fit well). Given the nature of the song, I get why she opted to use it there, that said.
Marjorie is another noteworthy one. As usual, she knocks it out of the park with the bridge:
The autumn chill that wakes me up
You loved the amber skies so much
Long limbs and frozen swims
You'd always go past where our feet could touch
And I complained the whole way there
The car ride back and up the stairs
I should've asked you questions
I should've asked you how to be
Asked you to write it down for me
Should've kept every grocery store receipt
'Cause every scrap of you would be taken from me
Watched as you signed your name Marjorie
All your closets of backlogged dreams
And how you left them all to me
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Because this thread was due for a bump, I shall point out that Evermore has returned to number 1 on the Billboard 200 charts, largely thanks to the vinyl becoming available last week (I bought two at Target! One for me and one for my niece), which now gives her 53 cumulative weeks at number 1 on the top albums chart, which is now 3rd all-time behind only the Beatles and Elvis. She will never catch the Beatles, but, Elvis, she is coming for you next. :P :biggrin:
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Meanwhile I got Love Story stuck in my head, brilliant :lol
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Eh, Roth's lyrics are interesting considering the style, but putting him in the conversation with best lyricists is like putting Fast Times at Ridgemont High in the same tier with The Godfather II when talking about cinematic masterpieces. ;) (yes, I realize we are talking about favorites, not best, per se :) )
I do think The Lakes is one of Taylor's best as well, and I forgot to mention This Is Me Trying yesterday. That whole second verse is just next level lyric writing.
Whoa. I’ve had people argue with me over and over that you can’t separate “best” from “favorite”. Are people finally coming around? :tup
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Meanwhile I got Love Story stuck in my head, brilliant :lol
Baby, just say yes. :P
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Love Story is great. Can't go wrong with that one :-)
What's the consensus on Red in these halls? If I remember correctly, the first two proper singles were "We are never ever ever ever etc." and "I knew you were trouble" - it was a bit of a statement about moving away from her country-pop roots. I found (and still find) the former annoying, but the latter is kinda fun. But other than that, the album is plenty varied and I really like it. Opener State of Grace is excellent. So are All Too Well and Begin Again.
As for what came next - 1989 completed the transition and is probably my favorite. That and Lover are a pair of classic pop albums for the 2010s.
She's definitely on a roll, as I agree with the general opinion here on Folklore/Evermore being really good.
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What's the consensus on Red in these halls? If I remember correctly, the first two proper singles were "We are never ever ever ever etc." and "I knew you were trouble" - it was a bit of a statement about moving away from her country-pop roots. I found (and still find) the former annoying, but the latter is kinda fun. But other than that, the album is plenty varied and I really like it. Opener State of Grace is excellent. So are All Too Well and Begin Again.
I still haven't heard the first and third albums, outside of a few songs from each, but Red is my 3rd favorite right now after Evermore and Folklore. It has a lot of variety, has some of her best songs on it (All Too Well, Treacherous, State of Grace, Red), and has a bit of grit to the mix that I kinda like. That is one where I feel like "Taylor's Version" will be too clean and some of the character of the original will be lost.
As for what came next - 1989 completed the transition and is probably my favorite.
1989 is mostly great, but I got tired of Blank Space pretty quickly and now find it to be pretty skippable. Out of the Woods, Style, Wildest Dreams, Clean, New Romantics, Wonderland, I Wish You Would...all insanely catchy pop tunes. And you have to be dead inside not to enjoy Shake It Off on some level. ;)
That and Lover are a pair of classic pop albums for the 2010s.
Lover needed to lose a bunch of songs, like I Forgot That You Existed (what a terrible song; how was that chosen as track 1??), but there is plenty of great stuff on there.
She's definitely on a roll, as I agree with the general opinion here on Folklore/Evermore being really good.
No, no, not really good...great. Both albums. :hat :hat
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1989 is mostly great, but I got tired of Blank Space pretty quickly and now find it to be pretty skippable. Out of the Woods, Style, Wildest Dreams, Clean, New Romantics, Wonderland, I Wish You Would...all insanely catchy pop tunes. And you have to be dead inside not to enjoy Shake It Off on some level. ;)
Agreed on Shake It Off ;) But I still enjoy Blank Space. And Out of the Woods is probably my favorite on the record.
Lover needed to lose a bunch of songs, like I Forgot That You Existed (what a terrible song; how was that chosen as track 1??), but there is plenty of great stuff on there.
Yes, Lover does suffer a bit from that. I Forgot That You Existed - not so good. Also, Me! is pretty annoying. Love the mood of certain songs like The Archer, or Cornelia Street.
She's definitely on a roll, as I agree with the general opinion here on Folklore/Evermore being really good.
No, no, not really good...great. Both albums. :hat :hat
Ok, fine, great :biggrin:
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Lover needed to lose a bunch of songs, like I Forgot That You Existed (what a terrible song; how was that chosen as track 1??), but there is plenty of great stuff on there.
NOOOOOOO! It's brilliant :biggrin: It's fun, ballsy, catchy and beautifully delivered. Sets the tone for the album nicely. But then you don't like Me!, either, so ya know... :lol :biggrin:
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Love Story is great. Can't go wrong with that one :-)
What's the consensus on Red in these halls? If I remember correctly, the first two proper singles were "We are never ever ever ever etc." and "I knew you were trouble" - it was a bit of a statement about moving away from her country-pop roots. I found (and still find) the former annoying, but the latter is kinda fun. But other than that, the album is plenty varied and I really like it. Opener State of Grace is excellent. So are All Too Well and Begin Again.
As for what came next - 1989 completed the transition and is probably my favorite. That and Lover are a pair of classic pop albums for the 2010s.
She's definitely on a roll, as I agree with the general opinion here on Folklore/Evermore being really good.
My daughter actually asked me to listen to Red abuot two weeks ago and I put it on while at work. I'm not a huge fan of "We Are Never..." so was predisposed to NOT like it, but I was well and truly blown away. State Of Grace, All Too Well... wonderful songs. I ended up ripping it onto my iPod. I still don't like "We Are Never..." but this will not be the first record I love that has one song that doesn't click with me.
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But then you don't like Me!, either, so ya know... :lol :biggrin:
I wouldn't I dislike it, but I am really not a fan either. It's for what it is, but a fluffy pop tune, but it's hard to wrap your arms around a song with a lyric like, "You can't spell awesome with me," especially when she has shown she is capable of so much more lyrically.
My daughter actually asked me to listen to Red abuot two weeks ago and I put it on while at work. I'm not a huge fan of "We Are Never..." so was predisposed to NOT like it, but I was well and truly blown away. State Of Grace, All Too Well... wonderful songs. I ended up ripping it onto my iPod. I still don't like "We Are Never..." but this will not be the first record I love that has one song that doesn't click with me.
We Are Never... is pure silliness, but literally everything in the song is a hook, from the acoustic guitar, to the vocal melodies in the verses, to the "ewww-ew-ew-ew- ewww!"s, to the chorus, to the bridge. I don't got out my way to hear it, but I don't skip it if I turn on Red.
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We Are Never is definitely one of the weaker tracks on Red, maybe even my least favorite, but it's still better than both Reputation and Lover in their entirety and Bad Blood.
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both Reputation and Lover have plenty of great songs, she just picked the worst ones as singles for some reason, lol (except the Lover title track, it’s a beautiful song)
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I would kindly ask anyone that is ready to knock "Lover", the song, to listen to her performance on SNL and THEN pass judgment. Her and a piano, looking and sounding absolutely mesmerizing.
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Yeah, I still say she should do a stadium tour next year in the States where she does three nights in each city, where she features Folklore one night, Evermore another night, and Lover the other night, that way she can max out playing songs from all three albums that she has yet to tour on AND still be able to play plenty of older songs. The logistics of locking down three nights in a stadium in a lot of cities might be not easy, but I am pretty sure she'd have no problem selling them all out (given how fanatical her fanbase is).
She could do that and do the same song over several nights in the same city, but different arrangements. She could do Lover at the piano by herself one night and then the album arrangement the next. Would be neat.
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I would kindly ask anyone that is ready to knock "Lover", the song, to listen to her performance on SNL and THEN pass judgment. Her and a piano, looking and sounding absolutely mesmerizing.
I actually really like the "Lover" (the song) in its original version too :-)
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I still haven't heard the first and third albums, outside of a few songs from each, but Red is my 3rd favorite right now after Evermore and Folklore. It has a lot of variety, has some of her best songs on it (All Too Well, Treacherous, State of Grace, Red), and has a bit of grit to the mix that I kinda like. That is one where I feel like "Taylor's Version" will be too clean and some of the character of the original will be lost.
I am not super-familiar with her very first (listened to it a couple of times a while back)...as for Speak Now, I'd say if you enjoy Fearless you should like this one too. Not a huge departure, at that point. Very pleasant listen, although I generally prefer what came next.
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both Reputation and Lover have plenty of great songs, she just picked the worst ones as singles for some reason, lol (except the Lover title track, it’s a beautiful song)
I disagree. I've had the misfortune of hearing those albums in their entirety. Which singles were chosen has nothing to do with it. Shake it Off grew on me. Still not a favorite, but it's not so bad. I tried to like Bad Blood, but it just kept getting worse. The rest of 1989 is really good to really great. Look What You Made Me Do was an edge filled cringefest. Such a disappointment. Maybe the next single with be better. Nope. Now my wife has the album. What the fuck happened? Every song is garbage! Oh, this song is pretty stupid, but it's not so bad. Ok, back to the garbage. It can't get worse that this. Cue Lover. Ok, ok, well this first single isn't good, could be worse. More of the same from the next single. At least it's not forced Edge Lord Taylor like the last album. Enter the full album. WHY?! Is the title track bad? No, but there's no playback value. I still have to hear it constantly at work, and home or the car. The Archer goes absolutely nowhere, but if it did, it might be a decent song. Not all the songs on Lover are terrible, but they just have no playback value. I have no desire to hear them again. I have no desire to listen to Folklore or Evermore (mostly because I've already heard them too much), but holy shit those albums are a gazillion times better than the previous two.
And I can't stand when she does that fake laughing in a song. It's the worst on "Nice Things", but the spoken word at the end of Stay Stay Stay is so cringy, I had to make an edit taking it out, using the karaoke track.
I don't mind when Bruce Dickinson does it because it's more for theatrics, but Taylor just sounds forced and fake when she does it.
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See, I don't see that as fake. I see that as just her personality coming out. She seems to be a fairly silly person (just look at the videos for Delirious or We Are Never Ever...), and the laughing is just the silly part of her personality being injected into the song. Not that I think This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things is great (similar to ME, I am sure it is great fun live, but not something I want to hear regularly), but the laughing seems appropriate. And if nothing else, you have to appreciate her treating Kayne West like a child in that song ("because you break them, I had to take them away"). :lol :lol
As for singles, how Cruel Summer wasn't a single has to be the biggest mystery in her history. I mean, WTF?
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See, I don't see that as fake. I see that as just her personality coming out. She seems to be a fairly silly person (just look at the videos for Delirious or We Are Never Ever...), and the laughing is just the silly part of her personality being injected into the song. Not that I think This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things is great (similar to ME, I am sure it is great fun live, but not something I want to hear regularly), but the laughing seems appropriate. And if nothing else, you have to appreciate her treating Kayne West like a child in that song ("because you break them, I had to take them away"). :lol :lol
As for singles, how Cruel Summer wasn't a single has to be the biggest mystery in her history. I mean, WTF?
It just doesn't sound like genuine laughter to me. I doubt when she was recording the vocals that she just burst into laughter on the fly. It sounds planned for the content of the song, on both songs.
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I agree in regards to ...Nice Things, but that doesn't make it fake, just a written part of the song. The part at the end of Stay, Stay, Stay totally sounds spontaneous.
What about the little laugh in Shake It Off after "I go on too many dates"? That sounds like a written part as well, not spontaneous, but fake? Nah.
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I agree in regards to ...Nice Things, but that doesn't make it fake, just a written part of the song. The part at the end of Stay, Stay, Stay totally sounds spontaneous.
What about the little laugh in Shake It Off after "I go on too many dates"? That sounds like a written part as well, not spontaneous, but fake? Nah.
Nah, Stay's laugh is scripted. I'm an expert on these things. I assure you.
When I mean fake, I mean it was forced and the part in question didn't actually make her laugh. So if it was written, "ok, after this line, I'm gonna add a little laugh" wouldn't that make it fake?
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Using that standard, anything a musician writes beforehand and then sings or plays in a song is therefore fake, right?
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Using that standard, anything a musician writes beforehand and then sings or plays in a song is therefore fake, right?
Well, kinda yeah. I mean, we're only talking about laughter here. The laugh in Iron Maiden's Moonchild is clearly fake laughter, but it's written for the song. It doesn't sound genuine. No one made Bruce laugh. It's a fake theatrical laugh to enhance the song. The same can be said about Taylor's laughs as they're meant to enhance the song narrative, but they don't sound right. Her songs are always more grounded, so maybe comparing them to a heavy metal song with fantasy themed lyrics isn't fair. I guess the bottom line is Taylor Swift can not fake laugh convincingly and I wish she would stop.
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I am not much of a Maiden fan, so I do not know the example you are giving regarding Dickinson, but while I get where you are coming from, it doesn't bother me. I just hope she is past letting her producers using that stupid ass modern effect where it sounds like a robot is singing, like at the beginning of Delicate (which is still a damn fine song regardless) or for chunks of King of My Heart. It's very much a pop music trope at this point, so I guess it all depends on if she circles back to pop following the 2020 albums or if she has finished her pop phase.
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I am not much of a Maiden fan, so I do not know the example you are giving regarding Dickinson, but while I get where you are coming from, it doesn't bother me. I just hope she is past letting her producers using that stupid ass modern effect where it sounds like a robot is singing, like at the beginning of Delicate (which is still a damn fine song regardless) or for chunks of King of My Heart. It's very much a pop music trope at this point, so I guess it all depends on if she circles back to pop following the 2020 albums or if she has finished her pop phase.
Kinda like how autotune was original meant to hide bad singing, and then it was overused to the point of parody, and now it's used as an effect, and that too is overdone and now a trope? I don't think I've ever heard any autotune in a Taylor Swift song.
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Kinda like how autotune was original meant to hide bad singing, and then it was overused to the point of parody, and now it's used as an effect, and that too is overdone and now a trope? I don't think I've ever heard any autotune in a Taylor Swift song.
That wouldn't surprise me. Taylor is not a naturally gifted singer and doesn't have great range (at least not high range), and I always catch instances where the thinness of her voice is more than evident, and those are probably moments where autotune would make it sound "better," but I like that they leave it the way it is. She has managed to turn her imperfections and limitations as a singer, in the technical sense, into a strength.
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It just doesn't sound like genuine laughter to me. I doubt when she was recording the vocals that she just burst into laughter on the fly. It sounds planned for the content of the song, on both songs.
Very little about Taylor has ever sounded "genuine" to me. Despite that I still think Taylor Swift™ music is pretty decent, it's got decent melodies and slick production the way you can expect from a lot of corporate manufactured music.
And with that comment I'll see myself out :biggrin:
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I'd probably see myself out, too, if I dropped a nonsensical bomb like that. :lol :lol
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It just doesn't sound like genuine laughter to me. I doubt when she was recording the vocals that she just burst into laughter on the fly. It sounds planned for the content of the song, on both songs.
Very little about Taylor has ever sounded "genuine" to me. Despite that I still think Taylor Swift™ music is pretty decent, it's got decent melodies and slick production the way you can expect from a lot of corporate manufactured music.
And with that comment I'll see myself out :biggrin:
I think this is a pretty fair assessment honestly. She falls into that category with other artists like Beyonce or Katy Perry for me where you can't argue with the catchiness but I don't really get much of an own voice/strong personality that overpowers the 'corporate manufactured' model.
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It just doesn't sound like genuine laughter to me. I doubt when she was recording the vocals that she just burst into laughter on the fly. It sounds planned for the content of the song, on both songs.
Very little about Taylor has ever sounded "genuine" to me. Despite that I still think Taylor Swift™ music is pretty decent, it's got decent melodies and slick production the way you can expect from a lot of corporate manufactured music.
And with that comment I'll see myself out :biggrin:
Sorry, but the notion that she's "corporate manufactured music" - or at least any more CMM than, say, Bruce Springsteen or U2 or REM - is comical. And the only thing funnier than that is comparing her to Beyonce and Katy Perry. C'mon.
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Since it seems anti opinions are being voiced in this thread, I'll add that I think Swift and her ilk are clowns, and not because I mostly like heavy music. I grew up in the era of the greatest pop stars of all time like Michael Jackson, Madonna, Prince, Whitney Houston, Phil Collins, Hall & Oates, Duran Duran etc etc ad nauseum. The stuff these auto-tuned kids are releasing today does not compare. Oh yeah and get off my lawn.
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It just doesn't sound like genuine laughter to me. I doubt when she was recording the vocals that she just burst into laughter on the fly. It sounds planned for the content of the song, on both songs.
Very little about Taylor has ever sounded "genuine" to me. Despite that I still think Taylor Swift™ music is pretty decent, it's got decent melodies and slick production the way you can expect from a lot of corporate manufactured music.
And with that comment I'll see myself out :biggrin:
I think this is a pretty fair assessment honestly. She falls into that category with other artists like Beyonce or Katy Perry for me where you can't argue with the catchiness but I don't really get much of an own voice/strong personality that overpowers the 'corporate manufactured' model.
That's what I mean. The things that are unique about her are those imperfections that remind you she probably is the talent level of someone you actually knew in person who showed up to the school open mic and played their own written songs in a way that was kind of quaint and charming but who would not have ever gotten noticed, except for in Taylor's case her parents were like C-Suite executives. Which is cool! Good for her. A lot of people born with the same privileges less creativity would probably just spend their early years crying on My Super Sweet 16 about how their Daddy got them the wrong BMW for their birthday. That's why I like her early stuff. It has a sort of endearing quality - the high school talent show nerd who got a record deal. Neat. The newer stuff just sounds like corporate music to me doesn't really impress me any more than the next Jack Antanoff production.
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It just doesn't sound like genuine laughter to me. I doubt when she was recording the vocals that she just burst into laughter on the fly. It sounds planned for the content of the song, on both songs.
Very little about Taylor has ever sounded "genuine" to me. Despite that I still think Taylor Swift™ music is pretty decent, it's got decent melodies and slick production the way you can expect from a lot of corporate manufactured music.
And with that comment I'll see myself out :biggrin:
I think this is a pretty fair assessment honestly. She falls into that category with other artists like Beyonce or Katy Perry for me where you can't argue with the catchiness but I don't really get much of an own voice/strong personality that overpowers the 'corporate manufactured' model.
That's what I mean. The things that are unique about her are those imperfections that remind you she probably is the talent level of someone you actually knew in person who showed up to the school open mic and played their own written songs in a way that was kind of quaint and charming but who would not have ever gotten noticed, except for in Taylor's case her parents were like C-Suite executives. Which is cool! Good for her. A lot of people born with the same privileges less creativity would probably just spend their early years crying on My Super Sweet 16 about how their Daddy got them the wrong BMW for their birthday. That's why I like her early stuff. It has a sort of endearing quality - the high school talent show nerd who got a record deal. Neat. The newer stuff just sounds like corporate music to me doesn't really impress me any more than the next Jack Antanoff production.
I can sorta get that about her early stuff. Not my cup of tea but definitely has that 'endearing' feel to it. The last few albums to me just feel a bit like generic indie pop stuff that isn't necessarily bad but there's hundreds of other bands/artists doing similar things and it doesn't really stand out among it.
But hey I'm not here to ruin the party for those who are big fans. :)
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It just doesn't sound like genuine laughter to me. I doubt when she was recording the vocals that she just burst into laughter on the fly. It sounds planned for the content of the song, on both songs.
Very little about Taylor has ever sounded "genuine" to me. Despite that I still think Taylor Swift™ music is pretty decent, it's got decent melodies and slick production the way you can expect from a lot of corporate manufactured music.
And with that comment I'll see myself out :biggrin:
Sorry, but the notion that she's "corporate manufactured music" - or at least any more CMM than, say, Bruce Springsteen or U2 or REM - is comical. And the only thing funnier than that is comparing her to Beyonce and Katy Perry. C'mon.
There is one person with songwriter credit on "Born in the USA", like most of Bruce's songs. By contrast, every noteworthy Taylor song is credited to a songwriter-producer cowriter like Max Martin or Shellback or Jack Antanoff, who, of course, are the same people writing all the songs for Katy Perry or Lorde or whoever else, which is where I assume Zantera was going with his comment.
It's cool - I don't turn my nose up at that stuff, nor do I care that much for Bruce or U2 (and I definitely don't care about REM). There's no snobbishness or anti-corporate pop nature behind my opinion. I was just agreeing with Zook who mentioned Taylor's lack of genuineness, by explaining that her authenticity also falls short with me, especially when you compare her to a lot of the same artists that use a lot of the same songwriter-producers. There are only so many artists as big as Taylor and I like being familiar with the pop culture of the day, so as long as she keeps making music that is trendy and hot at the moment I'll keep at least checking out her singles. But isn't part of whether or not you enjoy something, pop especially, always going to be subjective, a matter of how much you personally "buy" the end result and are capable of finding something authentic and relatable? Seems silly to laugh at someone or dismiss them outright because they find your favorite popstar inauthentic.
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Since it seems anti opinions are being voiced in this thread, I'll add that I think Swift and her ilk are clowns, and not because I mostly like heavy music. I grew up in the era of the greatest pop stars of all time like Michael Jackson, Madonna, Prince, Whitney Houston, Phil Collins, Hall & Oates, Duran Duran etc etc ad nauseum. The stuff these auto-tuned kids are releasing today does not compare. Oh yeah and get off my lawn.
Five posts after we all agreed that Taylor Swift doesn't use auto-tune. :tup
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I guess the point of contention is wether or not having co-songwriters anf producers makes music inherently less authentic? Or not having any of that makes music inherently better? I would say no, in my opinion.
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Since it seems anti opinions are being voiced in this thread, I'll add that I think Swift and her ilk are clowns, and not because I mostly like heavy music. I grew up in the era of the greatest pop stars of all time like Michael Jackson, Madonna, Prince, Whitney Houston, Phil Collins, Hall & Oates, Duran Duran etc etc ad nauseum. The stuff these auto-tuned kids are releasing today does not compare. Oh yeah and get off my lawn.
Not a fan of generalizations like this one. Some of "these [...] kids" release great music. Music biz has changed a lot, so it's not quite fair to compare any of today's artists to 80s popstars. I also like 80s music more than most of today's pop music. And a lot of today's popular stuff is absolutely not my thing. But you can't just cling to the past and say that all these youngster nowadays only release shit.
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I guess the point of contention is wether or not having co-songwriters anf producers makes music inherently less authentic? Or not having any of that makes music inherently better? I would say no, in my opinion.
That's not my point. Mentioning her songwriters and producers is just a way of acknowledging the nature of her music as a major record label production, one that uses similar methods of development to other major record label products. The "authenticity" is another thing, way more subjective, way more up to how the pretty face (in this case, "Taylor") strikes the listener, and that's always going to vary from person to person. You're sold on it, or not. You can be like me, not completely sold on it, even if you still like it.
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There is one person with songwriter credit on "Born in the USA", like most of Bruce's songs. By contrast, every noteworthy Taylor song is credited to a songwriter-producer cowriter like Max Martin or Shellback or Jack Antanoff, who, of course, are the same people writing all the songs for Katy Perry or Lorde or whoever else, which is where I assume Zantera was going with his comment.
That is factually incorrect.
Love Story, one of her biggest hits ever and one that has held up as one of her three or four most well known songs, had one writer: Taylor Swift.
The entire Speak Now album, which spawned a top 3 hit in Mine and a huge hit in Mean that won awards, was written by one person: Taylor Swift.
Red, a top 10 hit from her album of the same name, had one writer: Taylor Swift.
Lover, another top 10 hits, was written by one person: Taylor Swift.
If you do not liker her music, that is fine. I get it. Just keep the incorrect facts to yourself, maybe? ;)
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It just doesn't sound like genuine laughter to me. I doubt when she was recording the vocals that she just burst into laughter on the fly. It sounds planned for the content of the song, on both songs.
Very little about Taylor has ever sounded "genuine" to me. Despite that I still think Taylor Swift™ music is pretty decent, it's got decent melodies and slick production the way you can expect from a lot of corporate manufactured music.
And with that comment I'll see myself out :biggrin:
Sorry, but the notion that she's "corporate manufactured music" - or at least any more CMM than, say, Bruce Springsteen or U2 or REM - is comical. And the only thing funnier than that is comparing her to Beyonce and Katy Perry. C'mon.
There is one person with songwriter credit on "Born in the USA", like most of Bruce's songs. By contrast, every noteworthy Taylor song is credited to a songwriter-producer cowriter like Max Martin or Shellback or Jack Antanoff, who, of course, are the same people writing all the songs for Katy Perry or Lorde or whoever else, which is where I assume Zantera was going with his comment.
It's cool - I don't turn my nose up at that stuff, nor do I care that much for Bruce or U2 (and I definitely don't care about REM). There's no snobbishness or anti-corporate pop nature behind my opinion. I was just agreeing with Zook who mentioned Taylor's lack of genuineness, by explaining that her authenticity also falls short with me, especially when you compare her to a lot of the same artists that use a lot of the same songwriter-producers. There are only so many artists as big as Taylor and I like being familiar with the pop culture of the day, so as long as she keeps making music that is trendy and hot at the moment I'll keep at least checking out her singles. But isn't part of whether or not you enjoy something, pop especially, always going to be subjective, a matter of how much you personally "buy" the end result and are capable of finding something authentic and relatable? Seems silly to laugh at someone or dismiss them outright because they find your favorite popstar inauthentic.
Well, it's less about the "inauthenticity" than the other shots that I feel are unfounded and whose counter is more rooted in fact. "Songwriting credits" are hardly the measure of credibility. Is Def Leppard any less credible because Mutt Lange takes writers credit on the songs he works on? Bryan Adams? Is U2 "better" because they didn't give Eno and/or Daniel Lanois writing credits on the albums they had HUGE artistic input to? I wouldn't be surprised at all if someone like a Max Martin made that a condition of employment, like Mutt Lange. In any real comparison of artists, though, Swift DOES write a lot of her own material, and much of it herself. Contrast to one of Beyonce's albums where one song has 13 writers. THIRTEEN. Whitney Houston, named by DreamTeam, has all of four songs to her credit (all co-written by at least three other people) in her ENTIRE catalogue. To sit with ONE writing partner and craft out songs, songs that the writing partner produces and plays on, is hardly a knock to her credibility or authenticity as an artist.
If you don't find her authentic, so be it - I don't find Radiohead terribly authentic either, whereas many do - but I don't see how that then justifies a bunch of other shots that are factually inaccurate. She's hardly "trendy"; she IS like Bruce in that she puts out what she wants when she wants to, and her audience - and that includes perceptive people like are here (I humbly exclude myself from that assessment), not just teenage girls - are willing to go with her on that ride.
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I guess the point of contention is wether or not having co-songwriters anf producers makes music inherently less authentic? Or not having any of that makes music inherently better? I would say no, in my opinion.
That's not my point. Mentioning her songwriters and producers is just a way of acknowledging the nature of her music as a major record label production, one that uses similar methods of development to other major record label products. The "authenticity" is another thing, way more subjective, way more up to how the pretty face (in this case, "Taylor") strikes the listener, and that's always going to vary from person to person. You're sold on it, or not. You can be like me, not completely sold on it, even if you still like it.
And that's what I was responding to; other than she's young and female, I'm not sure what makes Taylor Swift more "major record label project" than any other artist. I guess it's subjective, but I can go around saying "wow it's cold in here", a 95 degree room and it strains credibility. That's why I keep comparing her to Bruce Springsteen; she's talked about sitting in her bedroom coming up with songs on her guitar, and Folklore and Evermore are testament to that. That Bruce didn't give co-writing credit to Jon Landau or Chuck Plotkin (who produced Ghost of Tom Joad and Devils & Dust) doesn't make it any more or less "corporate product". It's a Bruce Springsteen record, for god sakes.
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Yes Kev pointed out a couple exceptions where Taylor has not worked with the trendy major record industry songwriter producers of the day on her singles. But more often than not, that is what has happened. I don't understand the sensitivity toward that, the whole point is not that working with corporate industry producers makes you "inauthentic". There are plenty of non-corporate artists who strike as inauthentic as well.
The discourse above even in Stadler's post is exactly what rubs me as disingenuine about Taylor. She gets all the advantages of somebody who is signed on to major record labels using the best songwriters and producers of the day, she's sponsored high budget documentaries about herself in order to build up her own mythos, yet her legions go wild if you suggest that she is in any way manufactured. She's a major pop celebrity of the mainstream music industry and an indie darling at the same time. In my mind, no one gets to have everything, not even Taylor.
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Well, it's less about the "inauthenticity" than the other shots that I feel are unfounded and whose counter is more rooted in fact. "Songwriting credits" are hardly the measure of credibility. Is Def Leppard any less credible because Mutt Lange takes writers credit on the songs he works on? Bryan Adams? Is U2 "better" because they didn't give Eno and/or Daniel Lanois writing credits on the albums they had HUGE artistic input to? I wouldn't be surprised at all if someone like a Max Martin made that a condition of employment, like Mutt Lange. In any real comparison of artists, though, Swift DOES write a lot of her own material, and much of it herself. Contrast to one of Beyonce's albums where one song has 13 writers. THIRTEEN. Whitney Houston, named by DreamTeam, has all of four songs to her credit (all co-written by at least three other people) in her ENTIRE catalogue. To sit with ONE writing partner and craft out songs, songs that the writing partner produces and plays on, is hardly a knock to her credibility or authenticity as an artist.
If you don't find her authentic, so be it - I don't find Radiohead terribly authentic either, whereas many do - but I don't see how that then justifies a bunch of other shots that are factually inaccurate. She's hardly "trendy"; she IS like Bruce in that she puts out what she wants when she wants to, and her audience - and that includes perceptive people like are here (I humbly exclude myself from that assessment), not just teenage girls - are willing to go with her on that ride.
Well said. As we discussed in another thread recently, songwriting credit can be a tricky thing, as it varies from artist to artist as to how it it dished out, but all you have to do is listen to Swift talk about her songs to know that she is a songwriter, first and foremost. It is clearly the asset of which she is the most proud, and the way she geeks out talking about songwriting makes it clear that she is THE driving force of every song she writes. She is not some pop star who comes in and offers an idea that is user for a little part so she can worm her way into getting a songwriting credit. She is the real deal when it comes to songwriting, and while she is always extremely proud of the songs she writes by herself, she has no issues at all at giving mad props to her collaborators on the ones where she had a co-writer or two.
I cannot remember which Folklore song it was, but I remember Aaron Dessner telling the story of how he sent her an instrumental track before he went to bed one night, figuring they'd work on it the next day, and when he woke up, she had sent him a voice memo at like 2 am where she had taken his idea and already written the entire song around his idea. That is when he was like, woah, this is some next level stuff.
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Yes Kev pointed out a couple exceptions where Taylor has not worked with the trendy major record industry songwriter producers of the day on her singles. But more often than not, that is what has happened. I don't understand the sensitivity toward that, the whole point is not that working with corporate industry producers makes you "inauthentic". There are plenty of non-corporate artists who strike as inauthentic as well.
The discourse above even in Stadler's post is exactly what rubs me as disingenuine about Taylor. She gets all the advantages of somebody who is signed on to major record labels using the best songwriters and producers of the day, she's sponsored high budget documentaries about herself in order to build up her own mythos, yet her legions go wild if you suggest that she is in any way manufactured. She's a major pop celebrity of the mainstream music industry and an indie darling at the same time. In my mind, no one gets to have everything, not even Taylor.
Ugh. I'm hardly "her legions". And your premise is PROVABLY false. PROVABLY. She's had two records that might arguably be using "the best songwriters and producers of the day": 1989 and Reputation, and it's really just Reputation. Jack Antonoff - who I despise, by the way, for reasons best kept to myself - is hardly "the best songwriters and producers of the day". And you don't even mention Aaron Dessner, who did the bulk of Folklore and Evermore and is a highly respected, very credible indie artist, hardly "part of the machine". Her first three records? Largely produced by a well-regarded country producer Nathan Chapman.
Again, all the accusations you level, you can level at artists like Michael Jackson, U2 and Bruce Springsteen. Hell, in his BROADWAY SHOW, Bruce actually copped to something very close to that: he said, in so many words, that his mythology is as one of the working people, and he's never worked a day in his life, he just has a good imagination and a lot of people that have helped him over the years.
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Personally I think the song writing credits is the least of the problems when Folklore/Evermore just sound like your average indie albums. I like Aaron Dessner but his work with The National is a lot stronger and more interesting IMO. 1989 is probably the one I would be the most likely to revisit. I do think Skeever's point of the earlier stuff having more of a quaint charm or whatever has some validity.
Whether you like, dislike, love or hate Taylor Swift I just think there's a lot of similar sounding (to her last few albums at least) music that is as just as good if not better.
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@Stadler - Come on, dude. 1989, Lover, and Reputation have huge producer songwriters on almost every track. She's part of the machine and it makes sense that when you know that her attempts to play up the indie credentials or act like the "girl next door" don't land for everyone.
Only two things baffle me about the nature of this conversation. One is why you keep bringing up people like Bruce Springsteen who I really do not care about at all and I'm not sure how it's relevant other than to say that "these things are similar" when I was just trying to relate with another poster who said he felt she wasn't genuine sometimes. The other thing is why someone like me can see clearly that Taylor Swift is part of the machine so to speak and still enjoy her while her big fans in this thread can't. Just baffles my mind. I think I've said my piece here though. If you'd like to talk more via DM or Kev would like to DM me and call me a dummy in so many words or something like that, more than welcome.
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Personally I think the song writing credits is the least of the problems when Folklore/Evermore just sound like your average indie albums. I like Aaron Dessner but his work with The National is a lot stronger and more interesting IMO. 1989 is probably the one I would be the most likely to revisit. I do think Skeever's point of the earlier stuff having more of a quaint charm or whatever has some validity.
Whether you like, dislike, love or hate Taylor Swift I just think there's a lot of similar sounding (to her last few albums at least) music that is as just as good if not better.
Just one more post from me in this thread to say that this is pretty much exactly where I am at with her music.
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Only two things baffle me about the nature of this conversation. One is why you keep bringing up people like Bruce Springsteen who I really do not care about at all and I'm not sure how it's relevant other than to say that "these things are similar" when I was just trying to relate with another poster who said he felt she wasn't genuine sometimes. The other thing is why someone like me can see clearly that Taylor Swift is part of the machine so to speak and still enjoy her while her big fans in this thread can't. Just baffles my mind. I think I've said my piece here though. If you'd like to talk more via DM or Kev would like to DM me and call me a dummy in so many words or something like that, more than welcome.
I don't want to speak for Bill, but my interpretation is that Bruce could be construed as fake or inauthentic for portraying himself as and singing songs about the working man when he is nothing of the kind, yet no one ever lobs that criticism at him, yet Taylor apparently gets it thrown at her (which is funny since I always thought a criticism of her was that she was TOO authentic, what with all of those songs with her in her feelings about exes and whatnot).
To me, saying someone sounds fake when they sing is a more harsher criticism than saying they cannot sing. Accusations of being fake are harsh when it comes to the arts. Are writers of fiction novels fake because they are writing about made-up stories which may spring from experiences they never had?
Also, no need for DM's/PM's. I have no problem having a friendly disagreement out in the open. :)
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just want to note that while Springsteen has indeed never worked day job in his life, he does come from honest to god working class background and many of his songs are about people he knew and grew up with, family and friends etc. in other words the autenticity is there.
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edit: double post
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Personally I think the song writing credits is the least of the problems when Folklore/Evermore just sound like your average indie albums. I like Aaron Dessner but his work with The National is a lot stronger and more interesting IMO. 1989 is probably the one I would be the most likely to revisit. I do think Skeever's point of the earlier stuff having more of a quaint charm or whatever has some validity.
Whether you like, dislike, love or hate Taylor Swift I just think there's a lot of similar sounding (to her last few albums at least) music that is as just as good if not better.
Just one more post from me in this thread to say that this is pretty much exactly where I am at with her music.
I've become a huuuge TS fan in recent years but I think that's perfectly valid. When Folklore came out I did hear (in Fantano's review of example) that she was basically doing Lana Del Rey and I'm sure that true... but I've never listened to Lana Del Rey. It's still a valid criticism but at the same time it doesn't have to change my appreciation though.
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@Stadler - Come on, dude. 1989, Lover, and Reputation have huge producer songwriters on almost every track. She's part of the machine and it makes sense that when you know that her attempts to play up the indie credentials or act like the "girl next door" don't land for everyone.
Only two things baffle me about the nature of this conversation. One is why you keep bringing up people like Bruce Springsteen who I really do not care about at all and I'm not sure how it's relevant other than to say that "these things are similar" when I was just trying to relate with another poster who said he felt she wasn't genuine sometimes. The other thing is why someone like me can see clearly that Taylor Swift is part of the machine so to speak and still enjoy her while her big fans in this thread can't. Just baffles my mind. I think I've said my piece here though. If you'd like to talk more via DM or Kev would like to DM me and call me a dummy in so many words or something like that, more than welcome.
For the record, you're not a dummy. But the bold is the problem in the nutshell. I don't follow playing the "it's subjective" card, then hearing something like that. I'm no "fan boy" - for fuck's sake, I'm a 53 year old father of four - but I've been around enough to know that ANY musician that regularly tours stadia is "part of the machine" by default. You cannot operate on that level without being in the machine. That's why I keep bringing up Springsteen. Once you're out of the "releasing CDs for sale at your shows in small clubs", you're part of the machine. Artists have to pick their battles; some maintain their "purity" with the songs themselves, some with the shows, some with the distribution of their music, whatever. I just don't see how using Max Martin somehow voids the validity of her art. I also use Springsteen as an example because I believe - sincerely - that she's on track to be her generation's Springsteen (who is our greatest living American artist right now, even over Dylan) and again, using Max Martin doesn't change that, any more than Springsteen's mid-80's records undermine his claim.
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Along those lines, I will be 48 next month and am still a rocker at heart. I just happened to really like her music now.
While I don't think of her a pop star per se (in the sense of pop music as it is generally defined now, not in the "anyone who is popular = pop" sense), as she is more of a singer/songwriter, with only three of her nine studio albums falling under the pop genre, if we can circle back to the pop argument, if someone asks me, "Was pop music better in the 80's or better now?", without pausing, and even if we threw Taylor into the pop genre, I am saying the 80's.
Just don't give me Whitney Houston, who had an awesome voice, as a standout, since of her 23 top 10 hits on the pop charts here in the States, she was a co-writer on 1 of them. 1. I will always give a lot of extra credit to the musicians and singers who write all or most of their own songs. Don't get me wrong, a good song is a good song, and there are a couple of Whitney songs I don't mind throwing on to my 80's playlist once in a while, but when it comes to artistic integrity, which I get can sound a bit snobby, gimme the songwriters all day.
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@Stadler - Come on, dude. 1989, Lover, and Reputation have huge producer songwriters on almost every track. She's part of the machine and it makes sense that when you know that her attempts to play up the indie credentials or act like the "girl next door" don't land for everyone.
Only two things baffle me about the nature of this conversation. One is why you keep bringing up people like Bruce Springsteen who I really do not care about at all and I'm not sure how it's relevant other than to say that "these things are similar" when I was just trying to relate with another poster who said he felt she wasn't genuine sometimes. The other thing is why someone like me can see clearly that Taylor Swift is part of the machine so to speak and still enjoy her while her big fans in this thread can't. Just baffles my mind. I think I've said my piece here though. If you'd like to talk more via DM or Kev would like to DM me and call me a dummy in so many words or something like that, more than welcome.
For the record, you're not a dummy. But the bold is the problem in the nutshell. I don't follow playing the "it's subjective" card, then hearing something like that. I'm no "fan boy" - for fuck's sake, I'm a 53 year old father of four - but I've been around enough to know that ANY musician that regularly tours stadia is "part of the machine" by default. You cannot operate on that level without being in the machine. That's why I keep bringing up Springsteen. Once you're out of the "releasing CDs for sale at your shows in small clubs", you're part of the machine. Artists have to pick their battles; some maintain their "purity" with the songs themselves, some with the shows, some with the distribution of their music, whatever. I just don't see how using Max Martin somehow voids the validity of her art. I also use Springsteen as an example because I believe - sincerely - that she's on track to be her generation's Springsteen (who is our greatest living American artist right now, even over Dylan) and again, using Max Martin doesn't change that, any more than Springsteen's mid-80's records undermine his claim.
I didn't want to continue participating in this thread but I will respond to this just because of how genuinely tilted you are coming across.
So let me be clear that nowhere did I say any of this invalidates Taylor's art, you can look all you want for that in my postings but you won't find anywhere I said that. It all just makes it more understandable that certain things she does strike some people as inauthentic.
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Well, no one and nothing is universally liked anymore. That is an impossibility with the existence of social media and Twitter. If Twitter had been around in 1983, I am sure there would have been a percentage of people who would have found plenty about Michael Jackson and Thriller to bash. It's what people do. But like the song says...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/LOWLRHs42LPUDtal3m/giphy.gif)
:P :P
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Would she be as successful without her parents' help?
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We should be as successful without her parents' help?
Obviously no. But, at least to me, it doesn't affect how I enjoy her work. Her parents help and moving the family to Nashville etc, alone wouldn't have been enough if she didn't real talent both in songwriting and as a performer.
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Well, no one and nothing is universally liked anymore. That is an impossibility with the existence of social media and Twitter. If Twitter had been around in 1983, I am sure there would have been a percentage of people who would have found plenty about Michael Jackson and Thriller to bash. It's what people do. But like the song says...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/LOWLRHs42LPUDtal3m/giphy.gif)
:P :P
I'm going to undermine my entire argument here, but she is easy on the eyes in that clip.
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@Stadler - Come on, dude. 1989, Lover, and Reputation have huge producer songwriters on almost every track. She's part of the machine and it makes sense that when you know that her attempts to play up the indie credentials or act like the "girl next door" don't land for everyone.
Only two things baffle me about the nature of this conversation. One is why you keep bringing up people like Bruce Springsteen who I really do not care about at all and I'm not sure how it's relevant other than to say that "these things are similar" when I was just trying to relate with another poster who said he felt she wasn't genuine sometimes. The other thing is why someone like me can see clearly that Taylor Swift is part of the machine so to speak and still enjoy her while her big fans in this thread can't. Just baffles my mind. I think I've said my piece here though. If you'd like to talk more via DM or Kev would like to DM me and call me a dummy in so many words or something like that, more than welcome.
For the record, you're not a dummy. But the bold is the problem in the nutshell. I don't follow playing the "it's subjective" card, then hearing something like that. I'm no "fan boy" - for fuck's sake, I'm a 53 year old father of four - but I've been around enough to know that ANY musician that regularly tours stadia is "part of the machine" by default. You cannot operate on that level without being in the machine. That's why I keep bringing up Springsteen. Once you're out of the "releasing CDs for sale at your shows in small clubs", you're part of the machine. Artists have to pick their battles; some maintain their "purity" with the songs themselves, some with the shows, some with the distribution of their music, whatever. I just don't see how using Max Martin somehow voids the validity of her art. I also use Springsteen as an example because I believe - sincerely - that she's on track to be her generation's Springsteen (who is our greatest living American artist right now, even over Dylan) and again, using Max Martin doesn't change that, any more than Springsteen's mid-80's records undermine his claim.
I didn't want to continue participating in this thread but I will respond to this just because of how genuinely tilted you are coming across.
So let me be clear that nowhere did I say any of this invalidates Taylor's art, you can look all you want for that in my postings but you won't find anywhere I said that. It all just makes it more understandable that certain things she does strike some people as inauthentic.
I'm lost. You're the one saying you see things clearly and others don't, and I'm just saying "it's impossible to tell one way or the other", and I'm not sure how that's "tilted". I'm in the process of ripping my CDs and DVDs to hard drive, and I'm literally doing U2 right now (or did last night). I have all their albums, a couple of their singles/compilations, and about half of their DVDs. EVERY SINGLE criticism you've leveled at Taylor Swift you can credibly say about U2, especially their latter day albums. Yet, other than a small smattering of Bono-haters, very few people doubt their artistic integrity or their "authenticity". I don't see much difference between the two artists in this regard.
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I'm lost. You're the one saying you see things clearly and others don't, and I'm just saying "it's impossible to tell one way or the other", and I'm not sure how that's "tilted". I'm in the process of ripping my CDs and DVDs to hard drive, and I'm literally doing U2 right now (or did last night). I have all their albums, a couple of their singles/compilations, and about half of their DVDs. EVERY SINGLE criticism you've leveled at Taylor Swift you can credibly say about U2, especially their latter day albums. Yet, other than a small smattering of Bono-haters, very few people doubt their artistic integrity or their "authenticity". I don't see much difference between the two artists in this regard.
Honestly, while I doubt it is a conscious thing Skeever or a few others are doing, it is kind of their thing for many* rock fans to find a way to denigrate anything a (perceived) pop star does. I knew a guy years ago who talked about how great Neutral Milk Hotel was, and then trashed Madonna saying, "She couldn't sing." Um, and the guy from Neutral Milk Hotel can? But since Madonna is pop and they are rock, it is somehow different. The standard are never the same.
*Note: not all.
And I am not immune to this phenomenon. As a rock fan, I know I am guilty of giving a rock band the benefit of the doubt of most things than I would a pop artist.
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I'm not immune to that either, and honestly I probably still do it for other artists. I'm not here to defend the artistic integrity of, say, Billie Eyelash, because IMO she hasn't amassed the body of work that Swift has. Like Patrick Mahomes, give her a few years. I think that's why I'm arguing this so much; MY standard is higher too, and Swift STILL passes the test.
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I'm not immune to that either, and honestly I probably still do it for other artists. I'm not here to defend the artistic integrity of, say, Billie Eyelash, because IMO she hasn't amassed the body of work that Swift has. Like Patrick Mahomes, give her a few years. I think that's why I'm arguing this so much; MY standard is higher too, and Swift STILL passes the test.
Agreed.
And the door swings both ways, too, as I have known people over the years who are mainly fans of pop/mainstream music who always think their favorites are better than yours because they sell more records, have more hits, etc. (as if music is a contest). And, as well all know, it is rarely that simple.
And hey, as a longtime rock fan, yeah, it can be a sore spot to see artists we consider great not get any real recognition by the masses (see: Neal Morse), while ones we feel are far less deserving get a ton, but no one ever said life was fair, right?
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I haven't been following this thread religiously because I still haven't listened to either of the 2020 albums (I'm still pretty sensitive about certain styles of music after a personal tragedy, and indie pop is definitely one of those styles). But I just went through the last page and a half or so and I do think I have a general point to contribute:
I think "authenticity" in music is really hard to measure. I don't mean to say that there's not a genuine distinction between authentic and inauthentic music, because I think there definitely, definitely is, but that it's often hard to tell as an outsider who is being authentic and who isn't.
To me, an artist is being authentic when they are writing and performing music that they judge to be worthy, that fits their standards, that is something they themselves like and want to hear. They are being inauthentic when they are writing and performing music because of other considerations, usually because they think a certain style will take them on the fast track to fame and wealth, in disregard of their own standards and preferences. What this means is that to know whether an artist is being authentic or not, we have to have some understanding of their motivations. Sometimes we can get this from interview or statements: "I recorded this song because I thought it would be a hit" or "I didn't care if this would be popular, I just wanted to do a song I really love." Of course, in the latter case, we have to wonder if an artist is always being authentic when we say something like that. And when they're being inauthentic, it's rarely as explicit as the former statement. For example, bands sometimes say, "We just wanted to do a record that the fans would really love," which can easily be interpreted as an inauthentic statement, but it may not accurately reflect all of what's going on.
So even when an artist is directly telling you about their motivations, it can be challenging to discern what those motivations really are. But many people think they can discern an artist's motivations based on even less evidence, which I find very implausible. A singer works with a songwriter known for writing hits. Does that mean she's being inauthentic and going for popularity instead of following her personal standards? I say, no, it does not. What if she really likes many of those hits, thinks this writer is very talented with a style she likes a lot, and she thinks that he can help her write the type of music she would love to hear and love to sing? That is a motivation I would call authentic, just as authentic as the motivation behind a prog band that writes a 20-minute epic full of guitar noodling because that's the type of music they would love to hear and love to play. Same issue with a band who cuts their hair and starts dressing more fashionably. Are they trying to make themselves more appealing to record executives and MTV audiences? Or do they want to try out a different look? One motivation is inauthentic, the other is authentic, and it's difficult to tell which.
In sum: I think it's really difficult to tell a lot of the time when someone is actually being inauthentic, and a lot of music fans are, in my opinion, too quick to judge artists, especially pop singers, as inauthentic based on evidence that is entirely insufficient.
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Good points. I think for me, I had to sort of come to grips with the phases of music. And again I cite Bruce Springsteen. He's been, over the years, very aggressive about the marketing of his career. He's not shy about pushing his music on the masses. But there's little doubt that the music itself is made with love and sincerity. So that invites the question: does the aggressive marketing and sale of music that is made with integrity undermine that integrity? I don't think it does, frankly, and that's sort of why I'm able to look past Swift's forays into the marketing universe. I honestly don't think she IS writing songs to just "move a million units", or as a result of "strategizing an advantageous market position". I think Eminem falls into this group as well. He's sold a brazilian records (he has two diamond records) and is certainly no stranger to a good marketing approach, but his music rings with an authenticity that is hard to discredit.
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I haven't been following this thread religiously because I still haven't listened to either of the 2020 albums (I'm still pretty sensitive about certain styles of music after a personal tragedy, and indie pop is definitely one of those styles). But I just went through the last page and a half or so and I do think I have a general point to contribute:
I think "authenticity" in music is really hard to measure. I don't mean to say that there's not a genuine distinction between authentic and inauthentic music, because I think there definitely, definitely is, but that it's often hard to tell as an outsider who is being authentic and who isn't.
To me, an artist is being authentic when they are writing and performing music that they judge to be worthy, that fits their standards, that is something they themselves like and want to hear. They are being inauthentic when they are writing and performing music because of other considerations, usually because they think a certain style will take them on the fast track to fame and wealth, in disregard of their own standards and preferences. What this means is that to know whether an artist is being authentic or not, we have to have some understanding of their motivations. Sometimes we can get this from interview or statements: "I recorded this song because I thought it would be a hit" or "I didn't care if this would be popular, I just wanted to do a song I really love." Of course, in the latter case, we have to wonder if an artist is always being authentic when we say something like that. And when they're being inauthentic, it's rarely as explicit as the former statement. For example, bands sometimes say, "We just wanted to do a record that the fans would really love," which can easily be interpreted as an inauthentic statement, but it may not accurately reflect all of what's going on.
So even when an artist is directly telling you about their motivations, it can be challenging to discern what those motivations really are. But many people think they can discern an artist's motivations based on even less evidence, which I find very implausible. A singer works with a songwriter known for writing hits. Does that mean she's being inauthentic and going for popularity instead of following her personal standards? I say, no, it does not. What if she really likes many of those hits, thinks this writer is very talented with a style she likes a lot, and she thinks that he can help her write the type of music she would love to hear and love to sing? That is a motivation I would call authentic, just as authentic as the motivation behind a prog band that writes a 20-minute epic full of guitar noodling because that's the type of music they would love to hear and love to play. Same issue with a band who cuts their hair and starts dressing more fashionably. Are they trying to make themselves more appealing to record executives and MTV audiences? Or do they want to try out a different look? One motivation is inauthentic, the other is authentic, and it's difficult to tell which.
In sum: I think it's really difficult to tell a lot of the time when someone is actually being inauthentic, and a lot of music fans are, in my opinion, too quick to judge artists, especially pop singers, as inauthentic based on evidence that is entirely insufficient.
So, again,
Great post!! :tup :tup
To me, saying, "I think this artist is fake," is a much harsher criticism than, "I don't like this artist's music is good." Accusations of being fake or inauthentic seem below the belt, especially since it is impossible to get inside the head of the artist and know what their true intent was.
In the case of Taylor Swift working with, say, Max Martin and Shellback, I think it's clear that she wanted to take her music in a more poppy direction at the time, so she worked with a couple of producers who were known for getting the most out of pop songs and smoothing out any rough edges to make the hooks work better. What is wrong with that?
In the case of Folklore, which came first, she all but said she had no idea how it would be received by fans and critics (and she cares deeply about reaction from both, probably too much to be honest), but she make the album and put it out anyway, because it was the album she was feeling and wanted to do. That seems very real to me. Had it been the opposite, I doubt I would have been drawn to her music like I have been. Anyone who knows me knows I have little to no interest in most modern pop and hardly any modern country, so there has to be a reason why the music of Taylor Swift is suddenly taking up a lot of time in my CD player, right? ;)
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I don’t have much of a dog in the Taylor Swift debate. I appreciate a lot of her music even if it’s not necessarily my thing. My kids (via my wife) are starting to get into her and it is weird hearing them connect with her almost immediately in a way they don’t connect with the music I listen to (they call it “Dad music” and the other day they told someone “Dad listens to ancient rock music.” Kids!). There’s a draw for them, even for the older songs that came out before they were born. It doesn’t have anything to do with her popularity, they don’t really know about that or other contemporary music. I do think there is something about it that makes it sort of made for them, in a way that a lot of the music I listen to isn’t. That’s not to say they don’t like anything I listen to. I caught them singing a Journey song the other day that I had put on a mix CD to listen to in the car. Score for Dad!
I don’t know where I’m going with any of this. I think the major pop writers and artists know how to engage with a broad audience. I also think to an extent the record industry has learned how to boil songwriting and production down to a bit of a cold, heartless science. But there is some middle ground there where you can still be authentic while also knowing how to write in a style or format that connects with people.
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I don’t have much of a dog in the Taylor Swift debate. I appreciate a lot of her music even if it’s not necessarily my thing. My kids (via my wife) are starting to get into her and it is weird hearing them connect with her almost immediately in a way they don’t connect with the music I listen to (they call it “Dad music” and the other day they told someone “Dad listens to ancient rock music.” Kids!). There’s a draw for them, even for the older songs that came out before they were born. It doesn’t have anything to do with her popularity, they don’t really know about that or other contemporary music. I do think there is something about it that makes it sort of made for them, in a way that a lot of the music I listen to isn’t. That’s not to say they don’t like anything I listen to. I caught them singing a Journey song the other day that I had put on a mix CD to listen to in the car. Score for Dad!
I don’t know where I’m going with any of this. I think the major pop writers and artists know how to engage with a broad audience. I also think to an extent the record industry has learned how to boil songwriting and production down to a bit of a cold, heartless science. But there is some middle ground there where you can still be authentic while also knowing how to write in a style or format that connects with people.
I think it is undeniable at this point that she connects with audiences in a way that cannot be explained. Some just have that "it" factor. I read comments a while back from a guy around my age who has been a fan since her early days and said he saw her on the Fearless tour (2008-2009, I guess) and was stunned at how loud the screaming was for her by fans (think of those early Beatles clips, or when the girls scream at Johnny Fontana when he is singing at the beginning of The Godfather). And it is obviously stunned her back then as well as you can find countless clips of her looked surprised at how loud fans would cheer for her at certain moments (I don't think she gives those looks anymore as I am sure she has realized by now how much how her fans adore her). Zantera said the other day about her newest albums that "there's hundreds of other bands/artists doing similar things and it doesn't really stand out among it" and that very might well be true, but I am guessing those hundreds of other artists do not connect with crowds like she does. I can't explain it. No one can. It just happens. It is like watching Bono or Freddie Mercury on stage connecting with a crowd and getting them worked up into a frenzy. You can't explain it. Some people just have that "it" factor.
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I think it's mostly the lyrical content. Love songs and break up songs are very relatable.
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I think it's mostly the lyrical content. Love songs and break up songs are very relatable.
You may be right, but I think it's more on a micro level than a macro one. It's not like she is the first to write a lot of breakup/relationship songs, but she gets so detailed with specifics and metaphors and whatnot in them that it makes them far more relatable than the ones that speak in more general terms. While she certainly has her share of misfires (ME!, anyone :lol), I think writing lyrics is perhaps her greatest strength.
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I wonder if her eventual suitors are "scared" by this. What outweights what - the benefits of getting it on with Taylor, or the risk of being outed in a song as a selfish asshole? :D
(Also going on a hopefully not too serious tangent - with breakups, I think only 20/30% of cases are situations where one of the two is a clear and definitive asshole. All the other cases are simply two people who were not a match and whose points of view on things were different enough to cause the split, with both being "right" from their own point of view and according to their life values, which makes nasty breakup songs a bit corny at times.... maybe he was not the devil who took advantage of you, maybe you two just weren't a good match, take for example the guy of Mr. Perfectly Fine, I don't believe that the character described in the song could have a chance with Sophie Turner if he were literally like everything the song says!)
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I wonder if her eventual suitors are "scared" by this. What outweights what - the benefits of getting it on with Taylor, or the risk of being outed in a song as a selfish asshole? :D
I think he has been with the same guy now for like 4+ years, but I know she was once joked that any new suitor were told up front that they were fodder for a song if things ever went sour. :lol I suspect many guys wouldn't care, and would actually consider it a badge of honor to have a song written about them if it is one that is not, shall we say, overly positive.
(Also going on a hopefully not too serious tangent - with breakups, I think only 20/30% of cases are situations where one of the two is a clear and definitive asshole. All the other cases are simply two people who were not a match and whose points of view on things were different enough to cause the split, with both being "right" from their own point of view and according to their life values, which makes nasty breakup songs a bit corny at times.... maybe he was not the devil who took advantage of you, maybe you two just weren't a good match, take for example the guy of Mr. Perfectly Fine, I don't believe that the character described in the song could have a chance with Sophie Turner if he were literally like everything the song says!)
Very true, but I am guessing she wrote some of those breakup songs when the breakup was pretty fresh and still pretty hurtful, and who is really that objective about it then? ;) Even if years later she could look back and say, "Yeah, he did this and that wrong, but I did this and that wrong, too," at the time she wrote it, she was probably still in that hurtful "it's all his fault!" phase. I am guessing since Mr. Perfectly Fine was written back then and never released, that she kept all of the lyrics as is when recording it for this year's release. If you watch the clip from Ellen right after the breakup with Joe Jonas (when she was, what, 18?), she seems pretty stung and hurt by it still, and throws out the comment about him breaking up with her in 20-something second phone call. To her credit, years later she expressed regret for putting him on blast like that. I am sure we all did something stupid shit when we were teenagers that we wish we could take back. :lol :lol
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I don’t have much of a dog in the Taylor Swift debate. I appreciate a lot of her music even if it’s not necessarily my thing. My kids (via my wife) are starting to get into her and it is weird hearing them connect with her almost immediately in a way they don’t connect with the music I listen to (they call it “Dad music” and the other day they told someone “Dad listens to ancient rock music.” Kids!). There’s a draw for them, even for the older songs that came out before they were born. It doesn’t have anything to do with her popularity, they don’t really know about that or other contemporary music. I do think there is something about it that makes it sort of made for them, in a way that a lot of the music I listen to isn’t. That’s not to say they don’t like anything I listen to. I caught them singing a Journey song the other day that I had put on a mix CD to listen to in the car. Score for Dad!
I don’t know where I’m going with any of this. I think the major pop writers and artists know how to engage with a broad audience. I also think to an extent the record industry has learned how to boil songwriting and production down to a bit of a cold, heartless science. But there is some middle ground there where you can still be authentic while also knowing how to write in a style or format that connects with people.
Can I pick at you a little bit, but respectfully? I had to think this through, but I realized that the "mistake" (in quotes because it's not really a "mistake", more an illogical leap) is that YOU aren't a "broad audience". Think about YOU for a second; do you care what anyone else likes when you listen to a piece of music and decide whether you like it or not? I know I don't! It's visceral. So why is it any different for someone else? Especially with my kids, it became harder and harder to look at them as nameless, faceless drones who follow the latest trends. My kid felt that music - mainly One Direction and Taylor Swift - every bit as much as I felt, say, Hallowed Be Thy Name or Deuce back in the day. We can't keep dismissing certain music as "made for the masses" ONLY because it sells a lot. Who has more integrity in their music: Taylor Swift, or Metallica? The first four Swift albums sold 39 million in the US; Metallica from RtL through TBA sold.... drum roll please... 39 million.
I think the problem is in the preconception that somehow JUST BECAUSE music sells, it's geared for the lowest common denominator. SOME music that sells is, but there's an echelon of music, the rarest of the rare, that is BOTH: music of integrity, feeling and made with honesty AND which connects to a broad number of people. I just don't believe that that is ultimately, deep down, the desire of most artists, to be true to themselves and yet still connect with other people. That's why they release music! To connect!
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I don’t have much of a dog in the Taylor Swift debate. I appreciate a lot of her music even if it’s not necessarily my thing. My kids (via my wife) are starting to get into her and it is weird hearing them connect with her almost immediately in a way they don’t connect with the music I listen to (they call it “Dad music” and the other day they told someone “Dad listens to ancient rock music.” Kids!). There’s a draw for them, even for the older songs that came out before they were born. It doesn’t have anything to do with her popularity, they don’t really know about that or other contemporary music. I do think there is something about it that makes it sort of made for them, in a way that a lot of the music I listen to isn’t. That’s not to say they don’t like anything I listen to. I caught them singing a Journey song the other day that I had put on a mix CD to listen to in the car. Score for Dad!
I don’t know where I’m going with any of this. I think the major pop writers and artists know how to engage with a broad audience. I also think to an extent the record industry has learned how to boil songwriting and production down to a bit of a cold, heartless science. But there is some middle ground there where you can still be authentic while also knowing how to write in a style or format that connects with people.
Can I pick at you a little bit, but respectfully? I had to think this through, but I realized that the "mistake" (in quotes because it's not really a "mistake", more an illogical leap) is that YOU aren't a "broad audience". Think about YOU for a second; do you care what anyone else likes when you listen to a piece of music and decide whether you like it or not? I know I don't! It's visceral. So why is it any different for someone else? Especially with my kids, it became harder and harder to look at them as nameless, faceless drones who follow the latest trends. My kid felt that music - mainly One Direction and Taylor Swift - every bit as much as I felt, say, Hallowed Be Thy Name or Deuce back in the day. We can't keep dismissing certain music as "made for the masses" ONLY because it sells a lot. Who has more integrity in their music: Taylor Swift, or Metallica? The first four Swift albums sold 39 million in the US; Metallica from RtL through TBA sold.... drum roll please... 39 million.
I think the problem is in the preconception that somehow JUST BECAUSE music sells, it's geared for the lowest common denominator. SOME music that sells is, but there's an echelon of music, the rarest of the rare, that is BOTH: music of integrity, feeling and made with honesty AND which connects to a broad number of people. I just don't believe that that is ultimately, deep down, the desire of most artists, to be true to themselves and yet still connect with other people. That's why they release music! To connect!
Your last point is pretty much what I was trying to say.
I don’t think it’s bad at all that TS can connect with a broad audience (which would include me. I love a good pop song as much as a good prog song or whatever). I was trying to express admiration for that. I do think the audience for a prog epic or metal is inherently smaller than for a pop song, but there’s nothing wrong with that, just different.
At the same time I do think there are artists and record companies who are just trying to follow a formula for what sells, and that can be a bad thing (and it’s not just a pop phenomena. Heck, I think DT have done this at times). The biggest danger is that you stop having artists who try new things and take risks and you end up with lots of same sounding music. Not that there won’t always be artists who buck trends, but I do think this is more of an issue now than back in the 70s, 80s, or 90s probably.
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I don’t have much of a dog in the Taylor Swift debate. I appreciate a lot of her music even if it’s not necessarily my thing. My kids (via my wife) are starting to get into her and it is weird hearing them connect with her almost immediately in a way they don’t connect with the music I listen to (they call it “Dad music” and the other day they told someone “Dad listens to ancient rock music.” Kids!). There’s a draw for them, even for the older songs that came out before they were born. It doesn’t have anything to do with her popularity, they don’t really know about that or other contemporary music. I do think there is something about it that makes it sort of made for them, in a way that a lot of the music I listen to isn’t. That’s not to say they don’t like anything I listen to. I caught them singing a Journey song the other day that I had put on a mix CD to listen to in the car. Score for Dad!
I don’t know where I’m going with any of this. I think the major pop writers and artists know how to engage with a broad audience. I also think to an extent the record industry has learned how to boil songwriting and production down to a bit of a cold, heartless science. But there is some middle ground there where you can still be authentic while also knowing how to write in a style or format that connects with people.
Can I pick at you a little bit, but respectfully? I had to think this through, but I realized that the "mistake" (in quotes because it's not really a "mistake", more an illogical leap) is that YOU aren't a "broad audience". Think about YOU for a second; do you care what anyone else likes when you listen to a piece of music and decide whether you like it or not? I know I don't! It's visceral. So why is it any different for someone else? Especially with my kids, it became harder and harder to look at them as nameless, faceless drones who follow the latest trends. My kid felt that music - mainly One Direction and Taylor Swift - every bit as much as I felt, say, Hallowed Be Thy Name or Deuce back in the day. We can't keep dismissing certain music as "made for the masses" ONLY because it sells a lot. Who has more integrity in their music: Taylor Swift, or Metallica? The first four Swift albums sold 39 million in the US; Metallica from RtL through TBA sold.... drum roll please... 39 million.
I think the problem is in the preconception that somehow JUST BECAUSE music sells, it's geared for the lowest common denominator. SOME music that sells is, but there's an echelon of music, the rarest of the rare, that is BOTH: music of integrity, feeling and made with honesty AND which connects to a broad number of people. I just don't believe that that is ultimately, deep down, the desire of most artists, to be true to themselves and yet still connect with other people. That's why they release music! To connect!
Your last point is pretty much what I was trying to say.
I don’t think it’s bad at all that TS can connect with a broad audience (which would include me. I love a good pop song as much as a good prog song or whatever). I was trying to express admiration for that. I do think the audience for a prog epic or metal is inherently smaller than for a pop song, but there’s nothing wrong with that, just different.
At the same time I do think there are artists and record companies who are just trying to follow a formula for what sells, and that can be a bad thing (and it’s not just a pop phenomena. Heck, I think DT have done this at times). The biggest danger is that you stop having artists who try new things and take risks and you end up with lots of same sounding music. Not that there won’t always be artists who buck trends, but I do think this is more of an issue now than back in the 70s, 80s, or 90s probably.
I think the last paragraph is certainly true; I think the numbers obscure the prevalence here: my opinion only, but there are bands in every genre that are less about making music that is "true" than making music that "fits the brand"; they just don't sell enough for it to be blatantly obvious. I'm going to offend here, but Motley Crue falls in that category. I don't get much out of Vince Neil that doesn't scream "BRAND!". I don't listen to a ton of prog outside of the mainstream - Genesis, Yes, Crimson, Neal Morse, Marillion - so I can't say if there are artists that are more interested in pandering than expressing, but I'm sure they are there. IMO, the metal commmunity is chock full of bands along these lines.
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I think the last paragraph is certainly true; I think the numbers obscure the prevalence here: my opinion only, but there are bands in every genre that are less about making music that is "true" than making music that "fits the brand"; they just don't sell enough for it to be blatantly obvious. I'm going to offend here, but Motley Crue falls in that category. I don't get much out of Vince Neil that doesn't scream "BRAND!". I don't listen to a ton of prog outside of the mainstream - Genesis, Yes, Crimson, Neal Morse, Marillion - so I can't say if there are artists that are more interested in pandering than expressing, but I'm sure they are there. IMO, the metal commmunity is chock full of bands along these lines.
I think it’s prevalent in most every genre. There are definitely prog artists who follow a formula as well (I might catch flack but John Mitchell strikes me a bit that way). Even Marillion, who I love, I think would admit they tailor their music to their audiences’ expectations to some extent.
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I definitely lean more towards the "Taylor is authentic" side of the debate. If you look at a select set of facts - parents moved her to Nashville, was acquired by a label her father invested in, has other songwriters on some of the biggest hits - you can argue that she is just as inauthentic as any other pop star, but when you learn a bit about the lore behind her, she is probably the most homegrown a major artist has ever been, and that's where that reputation comes from.
It's true she started as young as she did because her parents had the means to tell her to quit school and focus on her career and invest in her future, but her early successes in country music were mostly due to her investing time and labor, not her label's marketing - she was literally the one burning CDs to send to radio stations with boxes of cookies she made, she was writing back to people on MySpace and adopted every social network very early to talk directly to her fans. Her producers have songwriting credits because she worked with people who think building a track from melodies she wrote on the piano and guitar should earn them a songwriting credit along with a producing credit - those songs would have still existed otherwise, as you can see from those demo and recording sessions of Reputation, that video of Taylor working out a demo for ME! on the piano (where she gave Joel Little and Brendon Urie songwriting credits for building the track and writing some words), interviews of all songwriters and producers from 1989 and prior where we may not have videos but they confirm pretty much all they do is polish the song, or the fact that songs she wrote by herself have the same style, melodies and structures as the songs other people have songwriting credits on. Even when she's writing to a track like with Aaron Dessner, she works out all the vocal melodies herself. Jack Antonoff is now a respected producer, but Taylor is the first person who gave him a chance to do that - he's using skills he built and his signature sound that they honed together to work for other artists now. He would have been a guy in bands otherwise.
Taylor is marketed like every other pop star now, and she's done a lot of things that imo demean her artistry (using her personal life for marketing and then marketing how sad she was that the press took the bait and wrote about her personal life, pumping out whatever merch at exorbitant prices because her team knows her fans buy anything, playing the streaming game, always multiple versions of everything, talking a big game about feminism and raising up female artists but never mentioning her direct competition and almost only working with male artists and never having another female voice on her songs as a second lead but plenty of men), and it's also blatantly true that if she wasn't beautiful, tall, blonde, smart and precocious, all those Nashville execs would have looked at her and said "okay, you can write songs for the stars" instead of "kid, you're gonna be a star". But her artistry is as legit as any metal songwriter I love and appreciate and she is as homegrown as your average metal band who made it on the strength of their MySpace and fostering good, direct connections with the media and fans.
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I definitely lean more towards the "Taylor is authentic" side of the debate. If you look at a select set of facts - parents moved her to Nashville, was acquired by a label her father invested in, has other songwriters on some of the biggest hits - you can argue that she is just as inauthentic as any other pop star, but when you learn a bit about the lore behind her, she is probably the most homegrown a major artist has ever been, and that's where that reputation comes from.
It's true she started as young as she did because her parents had the means to tell her to quit school and focus on her career and invest in her future, but her early successes in country music were mostly due to her investing time and labor, not her label's marketing - she was literally the one burning CDs to send to radio stations with boxes of cookies she made, she was writing back to people on MySpace and adopted every social network very early to talk directly to her fans. Her producers have songwriting credits because she worked with people who think building a track from melodies she wrote on the piano and guitar should earn them a songwriting credit along with a producing credit - those songs would have still existed otherwise, as you can see from those demo and recording sessions of Reputation, that video of Taylor working out a demo for ME! on the piano (where she gave Joel Little and Brendon Urie songwriting credits for building the track and writing some words), interviews of all songwriters and producers from 1989 and prior where we may not have videos but they confirm pretty much all they do is polish the song, or the fact that songs she wrote by herself have the same style, melodies and structures as the songs other people have songwriting credits on. Even when she's writing to a track like with Aaron Dessner, she works out all the vocal melodies herself. Jack Antonoff is now a respected producer, but Taylor is the first person who gave him a chance to do that - he's using skills he built and his signature sound that they honed together to work for other artists now. He would have been a guy in bands otherwise.
Taylor is marketed like every other pop star now, and she's done a lot of things that imo demean her artistry (using her personal life for marketing and then marketing how sad she was that the press took the bait and wrote about her personal life, pumping out whatever merch at exorbitant prices because her team knows her fans buy anything, playing the streaming game, always multiple versions of everything, talking a big game about feminism and raising up female artists but never mentioning her direct competition and almost only working with male artists and never having another female voice on her songs as a second lead but plenty of men), and it's also blatantly true that if she wasn't beautiful, tall, blonde, smart and precocious, all those Nashville execs would have looked at her and said "okay, you can write songs for the stars" instead of "kid, you're gonna be a star". But her artistry is as legit as any metal songwriter I love and appreciate and she is as homegrown as your average metal band who made it on the strength of their MySpace and fostering good, direct connections with the media and fans.
This all seems pretty fair.
I grimace a little at the lyrics to The Man. Yes, most of what she says in the song is probably pretty accurate, but as you said, I think it is definitely true that she wouldn't have been given the chance she was back in the day if she wasn't so tall and cute and precocious (great word to use!). I like the fact that she doesn't do overly sexualized videos or shoots or anything like that. The shaking in Shake It Off is probably the most risque move she does, and that's like a 1.5 out of 10 by today's standards on the risque scale.
But not sure I agree about the feminism thing. She has mentioned plenty of other female artists before (see: her woman of the decade speech where she name checked like 10+ current female music artists).
I get the annoyance with artists overcharging for everything because "their fans are so hardcore that you know they will pay it," but that is playing the game. Heck, Neal Morse does the exact same thing, he just does it with a smaller fanbase. And like I always say, if the price is too high, no one is forcing you to buy it. I am someone who doesn't feel the need to own everything all of my favorites release, so if prices get out of control, I do not buy it and move on. Many others do not have that kind of self-control, and I suppose that is where artists like Neal and Taylor profit.
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But not sure I agree about the feminism thing. She has mentioned plenty of other female artists before (see: her woman of the decade speech where she name checked like 10+ current female music artists).
That was kind of an uncharacteristic moment for her, except for a few personal friends she has among colleagues, most of the time she's kind of politely pretending other women in pop music don't exist. I'm sure it's a conscious decision leftover from the time when people used to compare her to other female artists just to insult her and she just kind of wants to chill in her own corner and not be asked about why she associates with this person and not that person, but she could stand to actually work and collaborate with women in music a little more nowadays, if it's such a big deal to her.
It's interesting what you mentioned about The Man - people go as far as to say she wouldn't have even had a career if she was a man, and, you guys... Ed Sheeran exists and sells even more in some markets, and last I checked, he doesn't have to do his hair every time he walks out the door and doesn't have to endure misogynistic bullying, so score one for the man. At the same time, it's hard to take that song seriously. Sure, people would like you more if you were a man, but you have several mansions because people do like you. I was afraid that the documentary Miss Americana would be all about how "it's so hard, you guys" to be a pop star and I'm glad it was a bit more about Taylor as a person, and it did shine a light on the genuinely hard aspects of her job.
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I get the annoyance with artists overcharging for everything because "their fans are so hardcore that you know they will pay it," but that is playing the game. Heck, Neal Morse does the exact same thing, he just does it with a smaller fanbase. And like I always say, if the price is too high, no one is forcing you to buy it. I am someone who doesn't feel the need to own everything all of my favorites release, so if prices get out of control, I do not buy it and move on. Many others do not have that kind of self-control, and I suppose that is where artists like Neal and Taylor profit.
I agree with this 10000% percent. Let the people choose. I know my daughter is on the fringes of that. She's not succumbed to much of it (though I bought her the four versions of Lover for xmas, because I thought it would be neat to have her open four different things). But she DID buy the autographed version of Evermore, and it was a fucking neat package: it came in the CD post holder, and was resealed, but there was a little note in there, and some paper stars which sound corny, but I can imagine it was neat for her to open that and feel a part of it. Like I did when I opened Kiss albums and found the poster books (like in Alive! and Alive II).
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The law of demand and offer applies to everything. Literally everything, why there are narcos? because people buy cocaine. The day the world population collectively decides that cocaine is bad, narcos are out of a job. Why pay-per-view adult content exist? because people pay for them, otherwise there wouldn't be no market. Same with music, special editions, meet n' greets...
Was John Petrucci right or wrong in launching his wine? he sold out all the bottles, so he was right. If nobody would have bought them, he would have made a wrong move. He sold them all, so he was right.
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That was kind of an uncharacteristic moment for her, except for a few personal friends she has among colleagues, most of the time she's kind of politely pretending other women in pop music don't exist. I'm sure it's a conscious decision leftover from the time when people used to compare her to other female artists just to insult her and she just kind of wants to chill in her own corner and not be asked about why she associates with this person and not that person, but she could stand to actually work and collaborate with women in music a little more nowadays, if it's such a big deal to her.
Hmmm, I haven't been following her long enough to speak intelligently about all of that, but I haven't really noticed it. She let two current female pop stars (Camila Cabello and Halsey) not only share the stage with her during the Shake It Off part of her Artist of the Decade performance in 2019, but let both take a lead vocal during the one verse that was sung. That seemed pretty cool to me.
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From Taylor Swift's Facebook:
"I’ve always said that the world is a different place for the heartbroken. It moves on a different axis, at a different speed. Time skips backwards and forwards fleetingly. The heartbroken might go through thousands of micro-emotions a day trying to figure out how to get through it without picking up the phone to hear that old familiar voice. In the land of heartbreak, moments of strength, independence, and devil-may-care rebellion are intricately woven together with grief, paralyzing vulnerability and hopelessness. Imagining your future might always take you on a detour back to the past. And this is all to say, that the next album I’ll be releasing is my version of Red.
Musically and lyrically, Red resembled a heartbroken person. It was all over the place, a fractured mosaic of feelings that somehow all fit together in the end. Happy, free, confused, lonely, devastated, euphoric, wild, and tortured by memories past. Like trying on pieces of a new life, I went into the studio and experimented with different sounds and collaborators. And I’m not sure if it was pouring my thoughts into this album, hearing thousands of your voices sing the lyrics back to me in passionate solidarity, or if it was simply time, but something was healed along the way.
Sometimes you need to talk it over (over and over and over) for it to ever really be... over. Like your friend who calls you in the middle of the night going on and on about their ex, I just couldn’t stop writing. This will be the first time you hear all 30 songs that were meant to go on Red. And hey, one of them is even ten minutes long.
Red (Taylor’s Version) will be out November 19."
This woman just does not slow down.
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Taylor is going prog after all!
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Yep, just saw that on Twitter. I think she had said that All Too Well was originally 10-20 minutes long, before she brought it down to 5 1/2, so I am sure that will be the 10-minute song. Gonna a Red November. :heart
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Yep, just saw that on Twitter. I think she had said that All Too Well was originally 10-20 minutes long, before she brought it down to 5 1/2, so I am sure that will be the 10-minute song. Gonna a Red November. :heart
If that's the case, I will buy that. I LOVE that song.
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I'm looking forward to Taylor's 2-minute mellotron solo.
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I'm looking forward to Taylor's 2-minute mellotron solo.
:lol :lol
Yep, just saw that on Twitter. I think she had said that All Too Well was originally 10-20 minutes long, before she brought it down to 5 1/2, so I am sure that will be the 10-minute song. Gonna a Red November. :heart
If that's the case, I will buy that. I LOVE that song.
I will buy it anyway a) to support the endeavor, and b) to get all of the new and previously unreleased (I assume) songs. Red is an album I think will be hard to improve, as the original has a bit of grime and dirt in a good way that adds to the character of the album, and my guess is the newer version will be cleaner and slicker, but I could always be wrong. I know she is doing these for the ownership, not necessarily to improve them, but I am just thinking out loud as a consumer.
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I'll buy the new version of Red. It's a good album. And hey, maybe she'll leave off the fake laugh in Stay Stay Stay. :biggrin:
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Am I the only one mad she isn't releasing 1989 for summer like god intended :rollin
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I've never been able to associate music with seasons, only events. If that's what you're talking about.
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Am I the only one mad she isn't releasing 1989 for summer like god intended :rollin
Not sure why so many fans had their hearts set on 1989. I guess the snippet of the new Wildest Dreams in that movie trailer got fans' hopes up, but it'll happen eventually. Fans need to be a little patient. We all still have the original 1989 we can enjoy, ya know. :P
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You are both correct and so is this meme :rollin
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/c7c927477bdca6f162aa18199bc51a10/0f603a1d6ea85a6f-0b/s1280x1920/8eb75d9917531ae154a91527433ea8aef9141c16.jpg)
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Haha, yep, the fanbase is spoiled. In the last 23 months, she has released three brand new studio albums and a re-release of one of her first six. People need to calm down, pun intended. ;)
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You are both correct and so is this meme :rollin
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/c7c927477bdca6f162aa18199bc51a10/0f603a1d6ea85a6f-0b/s1280x1920/8eb75d9917531ae154a91527433ea8aef9141c16.jpg)
Sadly, that right image sounds EXACTLY like my daughter. :) :)
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New song!
Okay, it is by Big Red Machine technically, but Taylor sings the lead on pretty much all of it. I dig it. Sounds like it could have been on Evermore. :hat :hat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_wr-9X47ao
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Happy 1 year anniversary to Folklore, I still absolutely love this record.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRtf3hrDviX/?utm_medium=copy_link
It’s been one year since we escaped the real world together and imagined ourselves someplace simpler. With tall tall trees and salt air. Where you’re allowed to wear lace nightgowns that make you look like a Victorian ghost every day & no one will side eye you cause no one is around. It’s just you and your imaginary cabin and the stories you make up to pass the time. To say thank you for all you have done to make this album what it was, I wanted to give you the original version of The Lakes. Happy 1 year anniversary to Rebekah, Betty, Inez, James, Augustine, and the lives we all created around them. Happy Anniversary, folklore. 🌿
https://taylor.lnk.to/thelakesoriginal
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I still love it as well and I wish I would have discovered it when it was released! amazing album and its companion Evermore is great as well.
The Lakes is one of my favorite songs, although I prefer the actual album version to this original one.
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I think it was the right call to put the more minimalist version on the album (as a bonus track technically), but this "new" version, with more orchestration, is very nice as well. And hey, we have both now, so the fans win! :tup :tup
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Tracklisting is confirmed for Taylor's Version of Red:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_(Taylor%27s_Version)
I heard Ronan for the first time recently and wow what a song. And what an incredible gesture by Taylor to not only write the song, but to give the mom a co-writing credit AND ask her permission to re-record it. I will never get the hate she gets from some. The only conclusion I can come to is that some people just suck.
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Thanks for the heads-up.
Your link's missing its final bracket there, here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_(Taylor%27s_Version) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_(Taylor%27s_Version))
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Damn it :facepalm: :facepalm:, thanks!
I am not as overly excited as everyone else about the 10-minute version of All Too Well, as I suspect it will be just more verses featuring a similar sentiment, but I could be wrong. The original seems like a perfect 5 1/2 minute song, so it is hard for to envision improving on that. And it's not like Taylor's long version is going to bust out some long instrumental section. :lol :lol
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The ten minute version of All Too Well is the classic case of the myth of the song escaping the artist's control, like Metropolis PART ONE, WHERE IS PART TWO :lol afaik the only thing she said about it was that she had to call Liz Rose to help her trim the song ideas into a cohesive song because it could have gone on for ten minutes, and the fans extrapolated that there is a complete 10-minute version of All Too Well sitting somewhere. But I guess now was a good time to try and challenge herself to dig up those old lyric sheets and really try and make the song ten minutes long!
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As a prog fan, I cringe when I see "10 minute songs!" in the pop realm. It's like sugar; a little goes a long way.
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I think I agree with that. Just like writing a great 3-minute pop song that is concise and appeals to the masses is hard, writing a 10-minute song that works great, without meandering or going off the rails, is hard, too. And if you are not used to doing one, it's not so easy to just sit down and do it, and do it well. Take that new Coldplay song that is over 10 minutes (their first even close to that long, IIRC); it is a mess and just bounces all over the place. Because they are not used to writing songs of that length, and neither is Taylor, so we will see how this goes.
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maybe I'm misremembering but isn't there a similar thing with November Rain by GnR? Like they used to perform it live years before it ever came out and was way longer but what it really was is just a song in an unfinished state. Like whenever you hear about a "4 hour cut" of any movie most of the time that would be nigh unwatchable because the scenes go on way too long for no reason.
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No idea about that, but let's not taint the Taylor thread with Guns N' Roses talk, eh? ;)
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maybe I'm misremembering but isn't there a similar thing with November Rain by GnR? Like they used to perform it live years before it ever came out and was way longer but what it really was is just a song in an unfinished state. Like whenever you hear about a "4 hour cut" of any movie most of the time that would be nigh unwatchable because the scenes go on way too long for no reason.
I have a bootleg of demos and stuff (the stuff that was ultimately released on the Appetite Box Set) that had an acoustic guitar version of November Rain and a piano version as well. They were recorded prior to Appetite and are the song but in remarkably stripped down form.
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Taylor unexpectedly dropped her version of Wildest Dreams on the world today out of nowhere:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpLIb7T2tOE
:coolio :coolio
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Ok, I'm confused. So these songs are being completely redone from the ground up, and she's as far as I can tell not changing anything, and only her voice sounds older, so how exactly is what she's doing legal? Can Shazam or the YouTube algorithm tell the difference? If the songs are identical, what's to stop a DMCA flag?
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My understanding is that Big Machine owns the recordings, not the compositions, which she owns. Therefore, she has the rights to make a new recording of the same composition, and that new recording will be hers.
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Someone already posted a YT video of the differences in her singing (that didn't take long :lol), and I could immediately detect the slight difference in her singing. Certain inflections were a bit different, the effects at times were slightly different, etc. Plus, her voice sounds older and more mature now.
As for the legality of it, she is allowed to do it. I am pretty sure she wouldn't be if she wasn't allowed. I think the deal is she can release any re-recording of any of her songs from the Big Machine years five years after their original release, which is why we won't see anything re-recording from Reputation, for example, till late next year since that album was originally released in the latter part of 2017.
Additionally, because she still has veto power on the original recordings as far as commercial use, she can veto use of any of her songs from the first six albums in movies, TV shows, commercials, etc., that way the current owners of the recordings make no money from that venture. She will likely grant use of them from the re-recordings, of which she will completely own, so do not be surprised when songs of her start popping up in commercials, TV shows, etc., and any we hear will be Taylor's Version.
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@425: Gotcha. So will the original recordings just be eventually cycled out of the world wide database if there is one? Like, will grocery stores still be playing the originals or will in a few years the rerecordings make their way into the system? I don't expect you to know the answer, I'm just pondering.
Regarding Wildest Dreams, I do like the way she says "sounds" in the original more.
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This is perhaps my favorite Taylor Swift song, and I've felt she's just getting better (vocally) over the last couple years, so I'm really loving the more earthy vocal here. That's not to say I don't miss a little of the "sugar" from the original, but this is worthy.
And as for the questions, assuming both are available over time, the people using the song will get to decide, depending on what the royalties are and the approvals. If nothing else, she's using her clout to make this a discussion. Even just here, there are a LOT of people that know a lot more about the rights of distribution on music and they didn't before.
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Very true. I think it is likely that the casual fans still go for the originals on streaming sites, while the hardcore Swifties (many of whom are so scary loyal that they'd kick their grandma in the stomach if she didn't swear to allegiance to all things Taylor :lol) will go for the TV of each. I don't do Spotify or stream, but if I did, I would listen to whatever version I liked the best regardless of it is the original or Taylor's Version. I will buy each TV to support the cause, so I am doing my part. :biggrin:
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I think the originals will never cycle out of the radio and independent listeners' streams (people who are just going to go back to the YT video they've been watching since 2014), but she has the right to not license the originals to films and commercials and offer her version instead. She will also at some point probably a$$$$$k Spotify nicely to replace the originals with TVs in their official playlists :angel:
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I know I have said this before, but while I think she has every intention of re-recording all six albums if need be, I really believe her goal is to try and devalue the worth of the masters of the original albums (when owned by others) enough to where the current owners decide to sell them to her at a reduced price that she can be happy with. That is why she is going with the full court press and releasing the big boys first - Fearless (her first Album of the Year), Red (had her first number 1 hit in We Are Never..., her most loved song in All Too Well, and generally considered one of her most popular albums) and now a song from 1989 (her second Album of the Year). She is trying to hammer down the worth of the masters as quickly as possible instead of playing the long game.
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Billy Joel gets it.
“Taylor (Swift) is also a very talented girl and she’s productive and keeps coming up with great concepts and songs and she’s huge. You have to give her high marks. She knows music and she knows how to write. She’s like that generation’s Beatles.”
:tup :tup
Oh, and 8 days till Red TV!!
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:lolpalm: Beatles.
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https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/1456604921898360843?s=21
She wrote and directed a short film for All Too Well. I don’t know if I’m emotionally ready for this…
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https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/1456604921898360843?s=21
She wrote and directed a short film for All Too Well. I don’t know if I’m emotionally ready for this…
I chuckled when one of the main sites had an article on this and referred to All Too Well as "one of her most popular singles." IT WAS NEVER RELEASED AS A SINGLE!! And I think that is what is neat, that the song is so popular despite having never been a single.
It should be interesting to hear the 10-minute version to see if it makes it better.
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HOWEVER !
I *think* singles charts now include streaming - so if one of her album tracks was streamed so much that it charted - Maybe they'd count it ?
I'm not 100% sure how it works...
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:lolpalm: Beatles.
What direction were you going with that? That's high praise from Billy Joel, since he basically credits his entire career to seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, and a self-described high point of his career was "closing" Shea Stadium and having Sir Paul come out and play with him. He did an entire record - The Nylon Curtain - that was essentially a Beatles homage.
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What direction were you going with that? That's high praise from Billy Joel, since he basically credits his entire career to seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, and a self-described high point of his career was "closing" Shea Stadium and having Sir Paul come out and play with him. He did an entire record - The Nylon Curtain - that was essentially a Beatles homage.
To me, it was yet another example of a music living legend having high praise for Taylor. When legends like Carole King and Billy Joel speak about you in glowing terms the way both have recently in regards to her, that says a lot.
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https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/1456604921898360843?s=21
She wrote and directed a short film for All Too Well. I don’t know if I’m emotionally ready for this…
1 day to go.... Get ready. :lol :biggrin:
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How you holding up, Kev? You okay? :biggrin:
My CD arrives today. To be honest, I hadn't even realised it was coming out today until I got up to speed with this thread again yesterday. Bad Swiftie, me.
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My CD got delayed until December 20th. This is a sad day
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How you holding up, Kev? You okay? :biggrin:
Haha, bought it on iTunes and uploaded it to my iPhone. Will listen to what I can throughout the day at work before giving it a full go at home this weekend. Should be interesting to hear how the re-recordings of the original album tracks sound.
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Re-recording sounds really good, and some of those new bonus track are quite nice, but some of the songs miss the younger Taylor's voice. 31-year old Taylor singing We Are Never Getting Back Together and 22 isn't the same as 22-year old Taylor singing them. The different musical arrangement of All Too Well will take some getting used to, but it sounded good. The short film earlier tonight was more than a bit melodramatic, which is not surprising :lol, but pretty well done.
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I do own the original Red but I've not listened to it all that much (only because I got it after 1989 and I love 1989!) so this new version just sounds the same to me. It'll be fascinating to go back and compare tracks, though, and I'm sure the differences will be easily identifiable, especially with respect to her voice as you note.
I have to say I really enjoyed virtually every track yesterday (while playing some Forza Horizon 5, no less), including the new tracks. I think I've got three of those left to go which I may listen to when I walk our hound dog shortly.
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Now that does not sound like a long song at all. Well done, Taylor.
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:lolpalm: Beatles.
What direction were you going with that? That's high praise from Billy Joel, since he basically credits his entire career to seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, and a self-described high point of his career was "closing" Shea Stadium and having Sir Paul come out and play with him. He did an entire record - The Nylon Curtain - that was essentially a Beatles homage.
Comparing tay Sway to The Beatles. I don't think anyone ever could have the same impact as they did. Especially not a pop singer who probably won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years.
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:lolpalm: Beatles.
What direction were you going with that? That's high praise from Billy Joel, since he basically credits his entire career to seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, and a self-described high point of his career was "closing" Shea Stadium and having Sir Paul come out and play with him. He did an entire record - The Nylon Curtain - that was essentially a Beatles homage.
Comparing tay Sway to The Beatles. I don't think anyone ever could have the same impact as they did. Especially not a pop singer who probably won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years.
So, who's the pop singer that won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years? Because it's not Taylor Swift.
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I do own the original Red but I've not listened to it all that much (only because I got it after 1989 and I love 1989!) so this new version just sounds the same to me. It'll be fascinating to go back and compare tracks, though, and I'm sure the differences will be easily identifiable, especially with respect to her voice as you note.
I have to say I really enjoyed virtually every track yesterday (while playing some Forza Horizon 5, no less), including the new tracks. I think I've got three of those left to go which I may listen to when I walk our hound dog shortly.
I have been listening to Red a lot the last few months, so I was able to detect the differences in her singing right away in most of the songs. I have listened to her enough now to know now that right around the Red era is really when she her sweet spot as a singer, as she had improved her technique, but still had that bit of youthful recklessness in her delivery that was very charming. She sounds really good on the re-recorded TV, without a doubt, but there are little quirks and nuances in spots of the original that just cannot be recaptured.
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Now that does not sound like a long song at all. Well done, Taylor.
Yeah, I always say that a longer song needs to not sound long to work really well, and the 10-minute version of All Too Well does not feel that long. I am really surprised by how well she pulled it off. Not that I didn't think it would be really good, but she managed to change the musical arrangement, while keeping the core melody intact, and really give the song a bit of a mini-epic feel.
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So, who's the pop singer that won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years? Because it's not Taylor Swift.
I know I am still a newer fan and still gushing a bit while still in the honeymoon phase, but her status as a modern legend is pretty much set it stone now. Songwriting? Check. Longevity? Check. Impact? Check. Influence? Check. Success? Check. She can and has done it all. All she is doing now is running up the score as far as extending her legacy, and no amount of internet bitching by haters will change that. :)
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https://youtu.be/tollGa3S0o8
I liked this a lot. Though calling it a short film I think is a tad overstated. It’s a video for the 10 minutes version of the song is what it is really, there’s only one scene with dialog in it. But the two actors convey the feeling and mood of the song very well.
This is her song and her pov so of course the ex boyfriend(he’s a stand in for Jake Gyllenhall) doesn’t come off so well but she didn’t make him into a monster either. Though she did get a few shots in the expanded lyrics «I’ll get older, but your lovers stay my age »
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:lolpalm: Beatles.
What direction were you going with that? That's high praise from Billy Joel, since he basically credits his entire career to seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, and a self-described high point of his career was "closing" Shea Stadium and having Sir Paul come out and play with him. He did an entire record - The Nylon Curtain - that was essentially a Beatles homage.
Comparing tay Sway to The Beatles. I don't think anyone ever could have the same impact as they did. Especially not a pop singer who probably won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years.
So, who's the pop singer that won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years? Because it's not Taylor Swift.
Actually most are forgotten but for a few. Elvis, Beatles, MJ; those are remembered. TS will not be.
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https://youtu.be/tollGa3S0o8
I liked this a lot. Though calling it a short film I think is a tad overstated. It’s a video for the 10 minutes version of the song is what it is really, there’s only one scene with dialog in it. But the two actors convey the feeling and mood of the song very well.
This is her song and her pov so of course the ex boyfriend(he’s a stand in for Jake Gyllenhall) doesn’t come off so well but she didn’t make him into a monster either. Though she did get a few shots in the expanded lyrics «I’ll get older, but your lovers stay my age »
I didn't think either came off well in the scene in the film where they argued about him pushing her hand away (he came off as dismissive and a dick; she came off as needy and overly emotional). Not sure if that was intentional, but that was my impression.
I did laugh when I saw that the actor's name who played 'Him, later' was Jake Lyon. Jake Gyllenhaal lying. :lol Of course, she has still never actually confirmed who the song is about, but it is more than obvious. That poor guy is taking it on the chin from her hardcore Swifties on Twitter the last few days. I guess John Mayer knows what's in store for him once TV of Speak Now comes out. :lol :lol
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I do have some sympathy for the guy still getting shit for dumping that one girl 10 years ago :rollin Like come on leave me alone already!
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I do have some sympathy for the guy still getting shit for dumping that one girl 10 years ago :rollin Like come on leave me alone already!
Maybe Tay Sway and A Dell Laptop are just really shit at relationships ?:hat
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I do have some sympathy for the guy still getting shit for dumping that one girl 10 years ago :rollin Like come on leave me alone already!
I know, right? He has to be thinking, "We dated for three months and I am still hearing about this crap." :lol :lol It's just bad luck for him that All Too Well took on a life of its own.
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Also why I think it must be a PITA dating a stand up comedian.Every tiny little slip up - it goes in the act.
I saw a comedian on TV once and he literally did 5 minutes on 'my GF forgot George Harrisons name once "
Because NOBODY EVER forgets peoples names for a moment.
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I would say it's impossible to predict who will still be talked about in 50 years. But most of her fans will still be alive so it's hard to imagine that she won't be remembered at that time.
The Beatles of course will always be in the pantheon of people who have songs that cross generations and still mean things to young kids today who happen by them. And like Sinatra and others in that category it's easy to imagine that they will still be remembered and loved long after their first wave of fans have passed away. After all, people whose parents were too young to be there during the height of the Beatles are now getting married and having their songs played at their wedding.
I'm not really convinced that Taylor is in that category yet. She's no doubt one of the biggest and most prestigious pop stars of this generation, but she's always seemed culturally a few years behind the curve to me. Then again, if not her, who? I couldn't tell you. As to who will be and who won't be remembered in that way, only time will tell.
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"If not her, who?"
Well, I think Lady Gaga has a better chance than Taylor Swift than leaving a mark, and becoming the next Madonna. I knew even as a kid who Madonna was. Lady Gaga seems more like the perfect super diva everyone will talk about, it was impossible to not know who Lady Gaga was around the Paparazzi era, while I managed to live my life without knowing a single Taylor Swift song, not even by name, before this thread made me go "why the hell there are four pages for Taylor Swift" and check out Folklore and Evemore :lol
As for the song.... yup, it's quite good and does not feel long at all, well done! and some sympathy for Jake Gyllenhall, that's the downside of dating someone famous :biggrin: like Sansa Stark's husband who got an unreleased song about him and now suddenly, years, after the fact, he's being described as an asshole :lol as I remember previously saying.... is the chance of going out with Taylor Swift (and nailing her) worth the inevitable song against you after a break up? :D
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As a European, my perspective is Lady Gaga feels a lot bigger here than Taylor Swift in terms of popularity/hearing songs and so on. Might be different in America ofc. Either way I don't think it's necessarily a knock on anyone to say comparing them to The Beatles is silly because in most cases it is.
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Bad Romance is definitely on the short list of pop stars that EVERYONE knows from the last 15 years. It's like Uptown Funk. If you don't know that song, you have probably been hanging out with Chuck Noland on his island. ;) I know she released an album a year or two ago, but I cannot remember the last song she had that was a biggie that you heard everywhere. It feels like all of her biggies are from that first album (late 00s), while Taylor's most well known songs are more spread out over time. Longevity, not just with releases but with acclaim and high visibility, is working largely in Taylor's favor. As big as the new stars like Olivia Rodridgo and Billie Eilish are right now, will they be around and still dominant stars in 10 years? 5 years? Time will tell.
Generally speaking, any comparison to the Beatles does seem a bit absurd, I agree, but Billy Joel did say "that generation's Beatles," so I don't think he meant for it to be an exact comparison, especially since the music world is so vastly different now than what it was in the 60s. The Beatles very likely would have broken the internet had it existed back then. :lol :lol
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As a European, my perspective is Lady Gaga feels a lot bigger here than Taylor Swift in terms of popularity/hearing songs and so on.
Interesting. My perspective as a British European (and yes, I still consider myself as European) is the opposite. Taylor is more popular in the UK.
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by the way Taylor Swift is performing on SNL tonight, and today’s the 13th her lucky number
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by the way Taylor Swift is performing on SNL tonight, and today’s the 13th her lucky number
And word is that she will perform the full 10 minute plus version of All Too Well. How utterly progressive. :P
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I've never heard of a musical guest segment on SNL lasting this long but who knows
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speaking of SNL this thread always reminds me of this old bit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAhAz7JU0dg
This may be a sketch but it still rings really true and I think it applies to most of us here in one way or another :lol
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I've never heard of a musical guest segment on SNL lasting this long but who knows
well as it happens a lot I had no idea what I was talking about. That was great!
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Yep, really nice performance. I was glad she did the full band performance and not just by herself. As well as many of her songs work when it's just Taylor and her guitar or piano, that one is better with the full band.
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it's available here: https://youtu.be/nJr_8l0AEWE
I watched it live and enjoyed well enough but on rewatch today it hit me like a ton of bricks. At first I thought it was just an interesting sales gimmick bonus track for the re-recorded album but now this version of the song may overtake the original as my preferred version. :omg:
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I can't go that far, but it's a great companion piece to the original.
She also announced that a new video will be out tomorrow for I Bet You Think About Me. Not one of my favorites of the new From the Vault tracks (a bit too country for me, and that kind of shrilly harmonica lead is rarely a thing I like from anyone), but that is okay. Message in a Bottle has been stuck in my head all damn day (as always, I am a sucker for a good pop song), and Nothing New is just fantastic.
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What are the chances the 10 minute version gets radio play? I don't even listen to the radio, but it would be a big win for music. A 10 minute pop song on the radio, played in full? In the tik tok era? If anyone could break the 10 second attention span of today's youth, It's Taylor Swift.
I just wish Reputation was a bad dream. lol I can get behind her other shit, even the country stuff I don't care for, but that stuff isn't cringey like Reputation is.
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I think we have discussed that before :P, but while I think Reputation is a bit overproduced, it does have a handful of great songs. Delicate, Don't Blame Me and Getaway Car are all killer songs, IMO. I hope she gets past that wanting to do full albums with the whole pop sheen. Red is so good because it has a little bit of everything. Look at a song like Daylight. It's good on the Lover album with the pop sheen, but if you watch the live performance she did of it in Paris where it was just her and the piano, it is far better like that.
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Look at a song like Daylight. It's good on the Lover album with the pop sheen, but if you watch the live performance she did of it in Paris where it was just her and the piano, it is far better like that.
For me it's Cornelia Street, can't listen to anything but the acoustic Paris version. It's nuts that it was a release party show, in france, and you can clearly hear the fans screaming the lyrics of these (then) brand new songs.
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Look at a song like Daylight. It's good on the Lover album with the pop sheen, but if you watch the live performance she did of it in Paris where it was just her and the piano, it is far better like that.
For me it's Cornelia Street, can't listen to anything but the acoustic Paris version. It's nuts that it was a release party show, in france, and you can clearly hear the fans screaming the lyrics of these (then) brand new songs.
Good call. That live version is also way better.
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I think we have discussed that before :P, but while I think Reputation is a bit overproduced, it does have a handful of great songs. Delicate, Don't Blame Me and Getaway Car are all killer songs, IMO. I hope she gets past that wanting to do full albums with the whole pop sheen. Red is so good because it has a little bit of everything. Look at a song like Daylight. It's good on the Lover album with the pop sheen, but if you watch the live performance she did of it in Paris where it was just her and the piano, it is far better like that.
I can give the bubblegum pop like "We", and 22 and Shake it Off a pass. Not stuff I'd go back to all the time, mostly just when I listen to a full album, and while I'm not one to normally skip tracks (I'll just keep them off my phone, my car doesn't have a CD player anyway) I will definitely skip Bad Blood. In fact, I wish I could transfer it to Reputation and throw it in the ocean. Anyway, back to my point, I give those songs a pass as they're inoffensive and just pop, but the songs on Reputation sound so forced and gimmicky, and trying too hard to be hip and urban. The first song sounds like Nelly wrote it. Did he write his own stuff? Even the songs you mentioned which aren't horrible, still don't sound right to me. Compared to 1989, they aren't good. No I don't think she should do 1989 part 2, I was just hoping she would build upon it, and I don't think she did.
But yes, we have discussed this before. :biggrin:
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I think we have discussed that before :P, but while I think Reputation is a bit overproduced, it does have a handful of great songs. Delicate, Don't Blame Me and Getaway Car are all killer songs, IMO. I hope she gets past that wanting to do full albums with the whole pop sheen. Red is so good because it has a little bit of everything. Look at a song like Daylight. It's good on the Lover album with the pop sheen, but if you watch the live performance she did of it in Paris where it was just her and the piano, it is far better like that.
I can give the bubblegum pop like "We", and 22 and Shake it Off a pass. Not stuff I'd go back to all the time, mostly just when I listen to a full album, and while I'm not one to normally skip tracks (I'll just keep them off my phone, my car doesn't have a CD player anyway) I will definitely skip Bad Blood. In fact, I wish I could transfer it to Reputation and throw it in the ocean. Anyway, back to my point, I give those songs a pass as they're inoffensive and just pop, but the songs on Reputation sound so forced and gimmicky, and trying too hard to be hip and urban. The first song sounds like Nelly wrote it. Did he write his own stuff? Even the songs you mentioned which aren't horrible, still don't sound right to me. Compared to 1989, they aren't good. No I don't think she should do 1989 part 2, I was just hoping she would build upon it, and I don't think she did.
But yes, we have discussed this before. :biggrin:
I hear ya on Bad Blood. Never liked that one.
I will give Reputation props for the sound and vibe. It is very dark, like an album you'd listen to at night, as opposed to Lover, which is a sunny day record. And then of course 1989 has that total 80s thing going on, so even though I do not listen to her pop era (1989 through Lover) as much as Speak Now, Red, Folklore or Evermore these days, I will give her props for making each pop album sound different from the others.
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a criticism of Reputation that I do agree with is that as pop it was far from cutting edge sound (I tihnk Kev even mentioned earlier in the thread ther strength isn't being at the forefront of styles anyway), on the contrary it sounded like stuff Black Eyed Peas were doing almost 10 years before, in beats and production. Even with folklore, when it came critics said it was basically aping Lana Del Rey. So those are legit critiques but they don't really matter to my enjoyment.
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a criticism of Reputation that I do agree with is that as pop it was far from cutting edge sound (I tihnk Kev even mentioned earlier in the thread ther strength isn't being at the forefront of styles anyway), on the contrary it sounded like stuff Black Eyed Peas were doing almost 10 years before, in beats and production. Even with folklore, when it came critics said it was basically aping Lana Del Rey. So those are legit critiques but they don't really matter to my enjoyment.
I've heard almost all of her stuff now (except for the first album outside of a few songs) to realize that her doing the softer, hushed Lana Del Rey-type vocals wasn't really a new thing for her, but Folklore was really the first time where it was her main vocal style.
Besides, to quote Russell Corwin, artists influence other artists, that's part of the process.
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I think I've said this before, but I really like the Reputation, and the dark vibe is part of why. Delicate is an especially lovely song.
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Bad Romance is definitely on the short list of pop stars that EVERYONE knows from the last 15 years. It's like Uptown Funk. If you don't know that song, you have probably been hanging out with Chuck Noland on his island. ;) I know she released an album a year or two ago, but I cannot remember the last song she had that was a biggie that you heard everywhere. It feels like all of her biggies are from that first album (late 00s), while Taylor's most well known songs are more spread out over time. Longevity, not just with releases but with acclaim and high visibility, is working largely in Taylor's favor. As big as the new stars like Olivia Rodridgo and Billie Eilish are right now, will they be around and still dominant stars in 10 years? 5 years? Time will tell.
Generally speaking, any comparison to the Beatles does seem a bit absurd, I agree, but Billy Joel did say "that generation's Beatles," so I don't think he meant for it to be an exact comparison, especially since the music world is so vastly different now than what it was in the 60s. The Beatles very likely would have broken the internet had it existed back then. :lol :lol
Based on music streaming, Lady Gaga has significantly outplayed Taylor. Her biggest hit, Shallow from the A Star Is Born movie, has almost triple the streams of Taylor's biggest Spotify hit, Blank Space. Gaga's big hit two years ago, Rain On Me, also has more streams than Blank Space. She has lots of hits outside the first two albums: Born This Way, Million Reasons, Always Remember Us This Way.
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Bad Romance is definitely on the short list of pop stars that EVERYONE knows from the last 15 years. It's like Uptown Funk. If you don't know that song, you have probably been hanging out with Chuck Noland on his island. ;) I know she released an album a year or two ago, but I cannot remember the last song she had that was a biggie that you heard everywhere. It feels like all of her biggies are from that first album (late 00s), while Taylor's most well known songs are more spread out over time. Longevity, not just with releases but with acclaim and high visibility, is working largely in Taylor's favor. As big as the new stars like Olivia Rodridgo and Billie Eilish are right now, will they be around and still dominant stars in 10 years? 5 years? Time will tell.
Generally speaking, any comparison to the Beatles does seem a bit absurd, I agree, but Billy Joel did say "that generation's Beatles," so I don't think he meant for it to be an exact comparison, especially since the music world is so vastly different now than what it was in the 60s. The Beatles very likely would have broken the internet had it existed back then. :lol :lol
Based on music streaming, Lady Gaga has significantly outplayed Taylor. Her biggest hit, Shallow from the A Star Is Born movie, has almost triple the streams of Taylor's biggest Spotify hit, Blank Space. Gaga's big hit two years ago, Rain On Me, also has more streams than Blank Space. She has lots of hits outside the first two albums: Born This Way, Million Reasons, Always Remember Us This Way.
Spotify streams are an unreliable comparison in this instance, though, because Taylor pulled her songs off of Spotify from 2014 to 2017, so her songs garnered zero streams on that platform for a 3-year stretch.
If we look at views on YT, the video for Shake It Off now has over 3 billion views :eek :eek, while the video for Bad Romance is just shy of 1.5 billion (in other words, Shake It Off has more than twice as many). Blank Space is at 2.8 billion.
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a criticism of Reputation that I do agree with is that as pop it was far from cutting edge sound (I tihnk Kev even mentioned earlier in the thread ther strength isn't being at the forefront of styles anyway), on the contrary it sounded like stuff Black Eyed Peas were doing almost 10 years before, in beats and production. Even with folklore, when it came critics said it was basically aping Lana Del Rey. So those are legit critiques but they don't really matter to my enjoyment.
I've heard almost all of her stuff now (except for the first album outside of a few songs) to realize that her doing the softer, hushed Lana Del Rey-type vocals wasn't really a new thing for her, but Folklore was really the first time where it was her main vocal style.
Besides, to quote Russell Corwin, artists influence other artists, that's part of the process.
I don't know; I'm agnostic on this notion that "you have to do something no one's done before", or at least how that is measured. Bruce Springsteen, who I've REALLY come to appreciate recently (I consider him America's greatest living musical artist) isn't reinventing the light bulb on every album. But he's digging deeper, refining those things he DOES do to a core emotional level. I think that's sometimes harder than twisting a knob to 8 when no one has really went past 4 before.
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Don't mind Swift or Gaga.....but Billy Joel can fuck right off. ;D
I wouldn't worry about which artist/song has the most views on youtube having some sort of relevance/meaning.....'Baby Shark Dance' is the most watched music video of all time (nearly 10 billion..). :mehlin
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a criticism of Reputation that I do agree with is that as pop it was far from cutting edge sound (I tihnk Kev even mentioned earlier in the thread ther strength isn't being at the forefront of styles anyway), on the contrary it sounded like stuff Black Eyed Peas were doing almost 10 years before, in beats and production. Even with folklore, when it came critics said it was basically aping Lana Del Rey. So those are legit critiques but they don't really matter to my enjoyment.
HARRY Styles?!?!?!?!
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I do have some sympathy for the guy still getting shit for dumping that one girl 10 years ago :rollin Like come on leave me alone already!
I know, right? He has to be thinking, "We dated for three months and I am still hearing about this crap." :lol :lol It's just bad luck for him that All Too Well took on a life of its own.
If I understand correctly, though, they're friends now. There was a piece in the Folklore live thing where she talked about it. She sent him a tweet congratulating him on his baby or some shit. I think artists understand that. I know for me, it's something I'm fascinated with: how artists can bare their souls that way.
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new video(our girl's been busy!), directed by Blake Lively
https://youtu.be/5UMCrq-bBCg
so yeah this "from the vault" track really is just a straight up country ballad, though not a sad one and the video makes it funnny, even.
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I do have some sympathy for the guy still getting shit for dumping that one girl 10 years ago :rollin Like come on leave me alone already!
I know, right? He has to be thinking, "We dated for three months and I am still hearing about this crap." :lol :lol It's just bad luck for him that All Too Well took on a life of its own.
If I understand correctly, though, they're friends now. There was a piece in the Folklore live thing where she talked about it. She sent him a tweet congratulating him on his baby or some shit. I think artists understand that. I know for me, it's something I'm fascinated with: how artists can bare their souls that way.
I think that was about Joe Jonas, not Jake Gyllenhaal. Jonas' wife, Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark from Game of Thrones), is a big Taylor fan, and I think they are all friends now. She even referenced it at the start of the last verse in Invisible String:
"Cold was the steel of my axe to grind
For the boys who broke my heart
Now I send their babies presents"
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Don't mind Swift or Gaga.....but Billy Joel can fuck right off. ;D
I wouldn't worry about which artist/song has the most views on youtube having some sort of relevance/meaning.....'Baby Shark Dance' is the most watched music video of all time (nearly 10 billion..). :mehlin
Hey now, be prepared for some major pushback to any and all slander of Billy Joel. :) :)
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new video(our girl's been busy!), directed by Blake Lively
https://youtu.be/5UMCrq-bBCg
so yeah this "from the vault" track really is just a straight up country ballad, though not a sad one and the video makes it funnny, even.
Will watch later. :tup :tup
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I do have some sympathy for the guy still getting shit for dumping that one girl 10 years ago :rollin Like come on leave me alone already!
I know, right? He has to be thinking, "We dated for three months and I am still hearing about this crap." :lol :lol It's just bad luck for him that All Too Well took on a life of its own.
If I understand correctly, though, they're friends now. There was a piece in the Folklore live thing where she talked about it. She sent him a tweet congratulating him on his baby or some shit. I think artists understand that. I know for me, it's something I'm fascinated with: how artists can bare their souls that way.
I think that was about Joe Jonas, not Jake Gyllenhaal. Jonas' wife, Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark from Game of Thrones), is a big Taylor fan, and I think they are all friends now. She even referenced it at the start of the last verse in Invisible String:
"Cold was the steel of my axe to grind
For the boys who broke my heart
Now I send their babies presents"
That doesn't rhyme. Terrible songwriter.
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I do have some sympathy for the guy still getting shit for dumping that one girl 10 years ago :rollin Like come on leave me alone already!
I know, right? He has to be thinking, "We dated for three months and I am still hearing about this crap." :lol :lol It's just bad luck for him that All Too Well took on a life of its own.
If I understand correctly, though, they're friends now. There was a piece in the Folklore live thing where she talked about it. She sent him a tweet congratulating him on his baby or some shit. I think artists understand that. I know for me, it's something I'm fascinated with: how artists can bare their souls that way.
I think that was about Joe Jonas, not Jake Gyllenhaal. Jonas' wife, Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark from Game of Thrones), is a big Taylor fan, and I think they are all friends now. She even referenced it at the start of the last verse in Invisible String:
"Cold was the steel of my axe to grind
For the boys who broke my heart
Now I send their babies presents"
You're right on that. I did think there was something with Jake, too, though. My memory isn't always what it should be! :)
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I wonder if Taylor have ever thought, all these bad relationships I keep getting into have one thing in common..........me.
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Are all her songs even autobiographical as it seems? I mean, I'm not that well versed in everything pre-Folklore, but I know she had many albums and these albums are all with a normal number of songs, 10 or 15 or so. I don't think even all the songs are about breakups or ex boyfriends but she can't have had THAT MANY boyfriends especially when she was younger, could she? I'd wager that every album can have at least 5 love songs, she started young, how did she manage to be dumped 20 times when she was 23 or something? :D
I mean, if everything is really biographical, you could trace a complete history of every fling she had just by listening to her songs :D
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That doesn't rhyme. Terrible songwriter.
:lol :lol :tup :tup
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You're right on that. I did think there was something with Jake, too, though. My memory isn't always what it should be! :)
You and me both. >:( >:(
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I wonder if Taylor have ever thought, all these bad relationships I keep getting into have one thing in common..........me.
There is something to be said for that, but hey she has been in the same one now for like five years and seems pretty happy, so maybe she figured it out. It is not unusual for humans to date a lot in their late teens and early to mid 20s.
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Are all her songs even autobiographical as it seems? I mean, I'm not that well versed in everything pre-Folklore, but I know she had many albums and these albums are all with a normal number of songs, 10 or 15 or so. I don't think even all the songs are about breakups or ex boyfriends but she can't have had THAT MANY boyfriends especially when she was younger, could she? I'd wager that every album can have at least 5 love songs, she started young, how did she manage to be dumped 20 times when she was 23 or something? :D
I mean, if everything is really biographical, you could trace a complete history of every fling she had just by listening to her songs :D
Folklore and Evermore, her two 2020 albums, were both largely written about fictional narratives, although I think she still dropped in little things from her own experiences. She said a while back that she likes writing about relationships in general, and lets face it, it is her brand, so even if she stays happy in her current one, I am sure she will find things to write about in regards to them.
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Are all her songs even autobiographical as it seems? I mean, I'm not that well versed in everything pre-Folklore, but I know she had many albums and these albums are all with a normal number of songs, 10 or 15 or so. I don't think even all the songs are about breakups or ex boyfriends but she can't have had THAT MANY boyfriends especially when she was younger, could she? I'd wager that every album can have at least 5 love songs, she started young, how did she manage to be dumped 20 times when she was 23 or something? :D
I mean, if everything is really biographical, you could trace a complete history of every fling she had just by listening to her songs :D
I know starting with Lover and especially on Folklore and Evermore she's explicitely said that she now writes more about characters. Similar to what Bruce Springsteen has always done. Some characters may be inpired by real life people but her strenght is in storytelling through song and storytelling implies some degree of fiction
edit: what Kev said
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I wonder if Taylor have ever thought, all these bad relationships I keep getting into have one thing in common..........me.
There is something to be said for that, but hey she has been in the same one now for like five years and seems pretty happy, so maybe she figured it out. It is not unusual for humans to date a lot in their late teens and early to mid 20s.
So my daughter is a HUGE Taylor Swift fan; it's her favorite artist by a long shot. And we've talked about this, both seriously and jokingly, and I think it's like anything else; you write about the EMOTIONS you know, but that doesn't mean each and every event is the exact truth. There's a whole world out there that pours over each word, parsing through if the relationship with Harry Styles was a PR stunt or actually a deeper connection that we'll see more of in the future. Look, Bruce Springsteen has made a career out of the stories of the working man, and while he arguably never worked a day in his life, even the parts that are true are tapping into a feeling more than anything else.
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I wonder if Taylor have ever thought, all these bad relationships I keep getting into have one thing in common..........me.
There is something to be said for that, but hey she has been in the same one now for like five years and seems pretty happy, so maybe she figured it out. It is not unusual for humans to date a lot in their late teens and early to mid 20s.
I felt something similar about Ben Folds, and it's made me less interested in a lot of his music for me quite honestly.
He specializes in songs about relationships as well, many of them relationships that have gone wrong... but when you've been married 5 times? Suddenly those lyrics that sounded over the top and somewhat spastic have a different turn, like maybe it's not sarcasm and maybe it is just Ben that's just a huge asshole.
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I wonder if Taylor have ever thought, all these bad relationships I keep getting into have one thing in common..........me.
There is something to be said for that, but hey she has been in the same one now for like five years and seems pretty happy, so maybe she figured it out. It is not unusual for humans to date a lot in their late teens and early to mid 20s.
Even before that, she was in two relationships (between 1989 and Rep) that she didn't write about at all. So you know!
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I wonder if Taylor have ever thought, all these bad relationships I keep getting into have one thing in common..........me.
There is something to be said for that, but hey she has been in the same one now for like five years and seems pretty happy, so maybe she figured it out. It is not unusual for humans to date a lot in their late teens and early to mid 20s.
So my daughter is a HUGE Taylor Swift fan; it's her favorite artist by a long shot. And we've talked about this, both seriously and jokingly, and I think it's like anything else; you write about the EMOTIONS you know, but that doesn't mean each and every event is the exact truth. There's a whole world out there that pours over each word, parsing through if the relationship with Harry Styles was a PR stunt or actually a deeper connection that we'll see more of in the future. Look, Bruce Springsteen has made a career out of the stories of the working man, and while he arguably never worked a day in his life, even the parts that are true are tapping into a feeling more than anything else.
Very true. I am sure Taylor exaggerates certain events and stories for effect, as she obviously has a very creative mind. It's like taking one little thing that happened and blowing it up into a song and building around that one little thing.
I think lyrically where she really excels is her ability to express a lot of a story into compact spaces. Take a line like, "You made a rebel of a careless man's careful daughter," in Mine. That sums up the dynamic of three different people in a single sentence, which is just damn good writing.
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I also can't really judge Taylor Swift for writing some sad songs about three or four boyfriends tops when all of my favorite Brian May songs are about him cheating on his first wife ;D
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Damn, that video for I Bet You Think About Me sure was red. :lol Very nicely done. That shot of Taylor with the cake all over her face is destined to become a meme (if it isn't already).
Even though Twitter can be a clown show (okay, IS a clown show most of the time), some of the Gyllenhaal and John Mayer tweets were cracking me up today, as the fans got Speak Now trending after some supposed clues made them think that is the new TV coming. This one made me LOL for real:
i hope john mayer knows that what jake gyllenhaal is going through right now is minor compared to the public crucifixion that’s coming for him after speak now tv drops
:lol :lol :lol
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I have fun with that stuff too, so long as it's just that but there's always some hardcores who take it too far.
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Very true.
Anyway, back to the music and away from the drama, some of this "new" from the vault stuff is great. As a sucker for a catchy pop song, I am enjoying the hell out of The Very First Night and Message in a Bottle, Run is really nice (even with Ed Sheeran on it :lol), and Nothing New is nothing short of magnificent.
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I also can't really judge Taylor Swift for writing some sad songs about three or four boyfriends tops when all of my favorite Brian May songs are about him cheating on his first wife ;D
Wait... what?? :) :) :) :)
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I also can't really judge Taylor Swift for writing some sad songs about three or four boyfriends tops when all of my favorite Brian May songs are about him cheating on his first wife ;D
Wait... what?? :) :) :) :)
I don't about songs plural, but Too Much Love will Kill You is relatively famous (and a very great song) and is definitively about the end of his marriage. "Too much love will kill you if you can't make up your mind, torn between the lover and the one you left behind..."
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I also can't really judge Taylor Swift for writing some sad songs about three or four boyfriends tops when all of my favorite Brian May songs are about him cheating on his first wife ;D
Wait... what?? :) :) :) :)
Am I about to ruin some songs for you :lol
Yes, MirrorMask is correct that TMLWKY is about Brian feeling guilty about his very public affair and later divorce. In addition to that, we have:
Now I'm Here: Yes, really! Had an easier time finding this screenshot on Tumblr than on Brian's ancient massive website, here's the entire story (https://onegoldenglance.tumblr.com/post/187019248187/x)
It's Late: The lyrics really speak for themselves. Brian does his usual hedging to explain this when he says "it was gathered from many people's experiences on tour" but, come on ::)
If we're including just songs about partying during the band's Munich period and possibly or possibly not seeing loose women, Dragon Attack and Dancer. Could be about just memories from tour, but they are very period-typical and correspond well to what he was saying in interviews about how the band's marriages and long term relationships really started crumbling during that period.
Let Me In Your Heart Again: Song about feeling estranged from your long term lover from 1984, so I'm guessing this is the emotional background to him pulling the plug on his marriage later.
Scandal: Straight up about the fallout from Brian separating from his wife, only the subtext is about Freddie being hunted by tabloids.
I Can't Live With You: more self-explanatory lyrics, considering the time period
From the first solo album, Love Token (blunt as hell) and Let Your Heart Rule Your Head. From the second, Why Don't We Try Again also originates from the divorce period and is probably about killing the affair, then trying to reconnect. And of course, if we're taking unsubstantiated rumors (that Brian hasn't tried to squash) about how he may have had a midlife crisis and then cheated on his second wife (then girlfriend) in the late 90's with his assistant who was helping him put the second album together, Wilderness and Another World are two beautiful songs which have some, uh, interesting sets of lyrics.
In conclusion, Taylor Swift doesn't go as deep into her failed relationships as some other writers do :corn
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In conclusion, Taylor Swift doesn't go as deep into her failed relationships as some other writers do :corn
Probably not, but in addition to being a woman (women will always face more unfair scrutiny when it comes to serial dating than men), she dated a lot of "names" in her younger years, so that will always draw attention. If she had been dating nobodies and writing songs about them, that narrative likely never sticks to her, but Joe Jonas, Jake Gyllenhaal and John Mayer aren't nobodies, so there you have it.
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Does she flat out say whom the songs are about, and confirms it in interviews, or people put two and two together since, as you just said, it's all famous people?
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She was extremely blunt about "clues" and hinting who the specific songs were about for a while, at least up to Red. That's just a teenager being a teenager though, except her equivalent of vaguebooking was writing a fairly transparent song.
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To my knowledge, she has never confirmed who any song is about, but she definitely loves dropping clues and Easter eggs into songs, artwork, videos, etc., so she will sometimes put it out there for fans to decipher.
Personally, I prefer it when an artist doesn't get too specific in regards to what or who a song is about. Leaving things up to the imagination of the listeners is often more fun, IMO. I was always a little disappointed on the Live Scenes commentary when DT basically told us what happens in Scenes from a Memory. I thought leaving a few things ambiguous or up to the interpretation of each listener was more interesting rather than saying "X means this, that and the other."
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Well, in the case of SFAM it's a story, so I actually want to know said story in detail. It was fun figuring out the whole plot during the first listenings - took me a while to figure out the twist - but once I got the main key point down, I'm happy to know the actual plot of an actual story.
It's for stand alone songs that I can get along on the "don't explain too much" thing...
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Well, in the case of SFAM it's a story, so I actually want to know said story in detail. It was fun figuring out the whole plot during the first listenings - took me a while to figure out the twist - but once I got the main key point down, I'm happy to know the actual plot of an actual story.
It's for stand alone songs that I can get along on the "don't explain too much" thing...
All you needed to do was watch Dead Again.
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I also can't really judge Taylor Swift for writing some sad songs about three or four boyfriends tops when all of my favorite Brian May songs are about him cheating on his first wife ;D
Wait... what?? :) :) :) :)
Am I about to ruin some songs for you :lol
Yes, MirrorMask is correct that TMLWKY is about Brian feeling guilty about his very public affair and later divorce. In addition to that, we have:
Now I'm Here: Yes, really! Had an easier time finding this screenshot on Tumblr than on Brian's ancient massive website, here's the entire story (https://onegoldenglance.tumblr.com/post/187019248187/x)
It's Late: The lyrics really speak for themselves. Brian does his usual hedging to explain this when he says "it was gathered from many people's experiences on tour" but, come on ::)
If we're including just songs about partying during the band's Munich period and possibly or possibly not seeing loose women, Dragon Attack and Dancer. Could be about just memories from tour, but they are very period-typical and correspond well to what he was saying in interviews about how the band's marriages and long term relationships really started crumbling during that period.
Let Me In Your Heart Again: Song about feeling estranged from your long term lover from 1984, so I'm guessing this is the emotional background to him pulling the plug on his marriage later.
Scandal: Straight up about the fallout from Brian separating from his wife, only the subtext is about Freddie being hunted by tabloids.
I Can't Live With You: more self-explanatory lyrics, considering the time period
From the first solo album, Love Token (blunt as hell) and Let Your Heart Rule Your Head. From the second, Why Don't We Try Again also originates from the divorce period and is probably about killing the affair, then trying to reconnect. And of course, if we're taking unsubstantiated rumors (that Brian hasn't tried to squash) about how he may have had a midlife crisis and then cheated on his second wife (then girlfriend) in the late 90's with his assistant who was helping him put the second album together, Wilderness and Another World are two beautiful songs which have some, uh, interesting sets of lyrics.
In conclusion, Taylor Swift doesn't go as deep into her failed relationships as some other writers do :corn
Thank you for that; I have some listening to do! :)
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Well, in the case of SFAM it's a story, so I actually want to know said story in detail. It was fun figuring out the whole plot during the first listenings - took me a while to figure out the twist - but once I got the main key point down, I'm happy to know the actual plot of an actual story.
It's for stand alone songs that I can get along on the "don't explain too much" thing...
All you needed to do was watch Dead Again.
I saw that movie eventually, SFAM is still my favorite album of all time but after having seen Dead Again, I must confess my enjoyment of the story fell down a bit :D
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Speaking of lyrics, for those of you who are fans, have you read the lyrics to Forever Winter, one of the new From the Vault tracks? It is about suicide, and was apparently written by Taylor after her best friend died from an overdose back in 2010.
Just...wow.
She's a damn lyrical wizard. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC0AG8HfAi4
Help I can't stop listening to different versions of All Too Well
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See, now she is just taking victory laps. :lol
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That's basically an arrangement that could have found space on Folkore or Evermore!
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That's basically an arrangement that could have found space on Folkore or Evermore!
Without a doubt. And are we really supposed to believe that Taylor and her team went up there to just record that one version and then just left? I highly doubt it. She is always up to something. :coolio :coolio
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That's basically an arrangement that could have found space on Folkore or Evermore!
Without a doubt. And are we really supposed to believe that Taylor and her team went up there to just record that one version and then just left? I highly doubt it. She is always up to something. :coolio :coolio
No doubt her new prog rock concept album.
Could Red be considered a concept album? Does it follow a narrative? Similar to Seventh Son maybe?
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Could Red be considered a concept album? Does it follow a narrative? Similar to Seventh Son maybe?
Is heartbreak a concept? :lol :P
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Folklore has more chance of being considered something resembling a concept album, there's a few recurring characters and teenage love triangle story in Cardigan, August and Betty (maybe more but that's off the top of my head). I think she just enjoys putting easter eggs for the fans to pick up on, and has for a long time but I wouldn't call it concept albums. I guess it's more akin to the nuggetz(!) from Octovarium than the story of Scenes From A Memory, and even so it's never as elaborate as 8V was.
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I really like some of her studio songs but the woman cannot hold pitch. In terms of live performance she is poop.
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I'd be more generous and say inconsistent. There's a lot of good recordings of her and a guitar, Kev and I were just discussing some earlier, but I agree she's not an especially strong vocal performer. But idk, even Adele is off pitch sometimes, lol :) Taylor Swift's SNL performance from a week ago for example, I can hear she's a litle pitchy here and there but the overall effect still works, or at least it does to me.
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Could Red be considered a concept album? Does it follow a narrative? Similar to Seventh Son maybe?
Is heartbreak a concept? :lol :P
I meant more like a story with a beginning and end. I don't know all the lyrics but State of Grace is the beginning of a happy relationship, and yaddy yadda Mysterio breaks her heart, and Begin Again starts a new relationship. I don't know.
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I really like some of her studio songs but the woman cannot hold pitch. In terms of live performance she is poop.
Always find a criticism like this to be slightly smirk inducing on a DT forum :biggrin:
She sounds good enough live. For me, anyway.
Also, "the woman" - really? Perhaps we come from different parts of the globe but I find that incredibly dismissive in this context. Ugh.
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I meant more like a story with a beginning and end. I don't know all the lyrics but State of Grace is the beginning of a happy relationship, and yaddy yadda Mysterio breaks her heart, and Begin Again starts a new relationship. I don't know.
I think that's a good way to look at it. After the heartache of a painful breakup, the album ends with her singing a song about meeting someone new in a cafe and realizing it will be okay. A nice way to end the album.
I'd be more generous and say inconsistent. There's a lot of good recordings of her and a guitar, Kev and I were just discussing some earlier, but I agree she's not an especially strong vocal performer. But idk, even Adele is off pitch sometimes, lol :) Taylor Swift's SNL performance from a week ago for example, I can hear she's a litle pitchy here and there but the overall effect still works, or at least it does to me.
Her singing is fine. No, it's not perfect from a technical standpoint, but if I wanted perfect singing, I will go see an opera. :P
I saw a comment about her online recently that summed it up well and was something along the lines of, "She is a one in a million talent when it comes to words and storytelling, which is why she has been so successful despite not being a naturally gifted singer or musician," and I totally agree with that. And I think she is a really good singer, flaws and all. There is a character and a nuance to her singing that works extremely well. If some want to go on about pitch or range or whatever, that is fine, but her style, when it comes to both storytelling and singing, is all about details and character, and she nails both to a "t." I am seeing increased comparisons of her to Dylan and Springsteen, neither of whom are great technical singers either, and look at what they have done. Great songwriting often wins in the end.
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I really like some of her studio songs but the woman cannot hold pitch. In terms of live performance she is poop.
Always find a criticism like this to be slightly smirk inducing on a DT forum :biggrin:
She sounds good enough live. For me, anyway.
Also, "the woman" - really?
I think a lot of the criticism thrown her way definitely comes from a misogynistic standpoint, even if some do not realize it, but I do not think "the woman" remark there was anything offensive. Sub it out to "the man" if we were talking about a male singer and we'd think nothing of it, IMO.
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I really like some of her studio songs but the woman cannot hold pitch. In terms of live performance she is poop.
Always find a criticism like this to be slightly smirk inducing on a DT forum :biggrin:
She sounds good enough live. For me, anyway.
Also, "the woman" - really?
I think a lot of the criticism thrown her way definitely comes from a misogynistic standpoint, even if some do not realize it, but I do not think "the woman" remark there was anything offensive. Sub it out to "the man" if we were talking about a male singer and we'd think nothing of it, IMO.
I actually edited my post before seeing this one. Could just be differences in language usage across the world.
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I actually edited my post before seeing this one. Could just be differences in language usage across the world.
All good. :tup :tup
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I really like some of her studio songs but the woman cannot hold pitch. In terms of live performance she is poop.
Always find a criticism like this to be slightly smirk inducing on a DT forum :biggrin:
She sounds good enough live. For me, anyway.
Also, "the woman" - really? Perhaps we come from different parts of the globe but I find that incredibly dismissive in this context. Ugh.
Just curious but what part of the globe are you from where this is automatically dismissive and presumably misogynistic? This context was strictly about her ability as a singer, so not sure how anything was “dismissive.” I did say I like her songs; it’s just that she has trouble holding pitch in her live performances.
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Taylor performing a Carole King song at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ceremony (from earlier this month, broadcast on HBO last night):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oHyBaZ8kYc
Can't find a good upload of her speech when she inducted Carole King, but it was very well done. :tup :tup
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I meant more like a story with a beginning and end. I don't know all the lyrics but State of Grace is the beginning of a happy relationship, and yaddy yadda Mysterio breaks her heart, and Begin Again starts a new relationship. I don't know.
I think that's a good way to look at it. After the heartache of a painful breakup, the album ends with her singing a song about meeting someone new in a cafe and realizing it will be okay. A nice way to end the album.
I'd be more generous and say inconsistent. There's a lot of good recordings of her and a guitar, Kev and I were just discussing some earlier, but I agree she's not an especially strong vocal performer. But idk, even Adele is off pitch sometimes, lol :) Taylor Swift's SNL performance from a week ago for example, I can hear she's a litle pitchy here and there but the overall effect still works, or at least it does to me.
Her singing is fine. No, it's not perfect from a technical standpoint, but if I wanted perfect singing, I will go see an opera. :P
I saw a comment about her online recently that summed it up well and was something along the lines of, "She is a one in a million talent when it comes to words and storytelling, which is why she has been so successful despite not being a naturally gifted singer or musician," and I totally agree with that. And I think she is a really good singer, flaws and all. There is a character and a nuance to her singing that works extremely well. If some want to go on about pitch or range or whatever, that is fine, but her style, when it comes to both storytelling and singing, is all about details and character, and she nails both to a "t." I am seeing increased comparisons of her to Dylan and Springsteen, neither of whom are great technical singers either, and look at what they have done. Great songwriting often wins in the end.
This. My wife and step daughter have seen her twice, and my daughter three times. NOT ONE COMPLAINT.
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Ok, I extremely love Red and 1989. I love reputation. I expected to love folklore, but I can't seem to finish it, it becomes too same-sounding for me. Should I check out evermore? Lover also didn't do too much for me.
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https://twitter.com/billboardcharts/status/1462859512570863621?s=21
10 minute version of All Too Well goes number 1 on billboard charts (whatever that means in 2021, who knows)
longest song to go number 1 since American Pie by Don Mclean. Score one for the epics :lol
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hey - I am glad people are enjoying her concerts. I think we all know that a live performance is going to be very different from a studio recording. I might even see her live, depending on price, with the understanding that she's going to sing off key in all likelihood but that there are other fun aspects to the show.
I very much enjoy some of the songs attributed to her and think she deserves to be a pop star. She has a certain look and "thing" which are easily sellable-- evidently!
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My wife and step daughter have seen her twice, and my daughter three times. NOT ONE COMPLAINT.
I believe it. My cousin said she and her mid 20s daughter have seen her twice and said it was just insane how good it was and how loud the crowds were. You'd swear it was Johnny Fontane. :P
Ok, I extremely love Red and 1989. I love reputation. I expected to love folklore, but I can't seem to finish it, it becomes too same-sounding for me. Should I check out evermore? Lover also didn't do too much for me.
I thought the same at first about Folklore and Evermore, the latter of which is pretty similar, although Folklore is more like a spring/summer album while Evermore is fall/winter, but I would give them each a few spins start to finish. The more you listen, the more you get swept up in the vibe. And before you know it, you can't stop listening to either. :)
https://twitter.com/billboardcharts/status/1462859512570863621?s=21
10 minute version of All Too Well goes number 1 on billboard charts (whatever that means in 2021, who knows)
longest song to go number 1 since American Pie by Don Mclean. Score one for the epics :lol
Haha, yep. I can just picture the prog snobs out there shaking their fists about this. :lol :lol
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So they are playing it on the radio?
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Is there such a thing as FM radio anymore that plays pop music? I have no idea. I have even less of an idea of how they determine the hot 100 now. I know streams and Spotify and YT watches and all of that are factored in somehow, but it all seems confusing to me. :lol
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I think it's a little old, now, since I watch TV off a DVR, but I saw the SNL bumper for her recent appearance, where her, Bowen Yang, Aidy Byrant and Jonathan Majors read the bumper one word at a time. They celebrate after pulling it off, and she walks off waving her hands in the air and it was so... relatable. I'm pretty sure I have a full on crush on her at this point.
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https://twitter.com/billboardcharts/status/1462859512570863621?s=21
10 minute version of All Too Well goes number 1 on billboard charts (whatever that means in 2021, who knows)
longest song to go number 1 since American Pie by Don Mclean. Score one for the epics :lol
Just came to mention this...I'd imagine it'll get Grammy hype as well. Funny, I still remember the interviewer's reaction when JP stated that it's odd for an 8 minute song to get a nomination, and she was all 'EIGHT MINUTES!!!' :lol
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I doubt she will submit anything from TV of Red for next year's Grammys (the Grammy year ends at the start of November, I think, so Red TV is not eligible until next year's Grammys), as she did not submit anything from TV of Fearless for this year's. Granted, she might have held back on submitting anything from Fearless TV so as not to compete against herself since she was submitting Evermore and the hit Willow from it in various categories, but I would still be surprised if she submitted anything from Red TV. She apparently was crushed when Red didn't win album of the year when it was nominated 8-9 years ago, and I doubt she wants to submit it and not win with it again, especially she'd already have Adele to go against, and Adele is as much of a darling to the voters as Taylor is, so there is that.
I did see that Evermore got nominated for album of the year today, so that was cool. I didn't care about Willow not getting nominated in any of the categories where she submitted it as I do not think that song is anything more than solid.
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edit: nevermind I hadn't read Kev's post to the end and he covered her grammy nomination. carry on.
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I had to drive to Boston and back yesterday, and I listened to T's version of Red, and MAN. She's the bomb. I love both versions of All Too Well. I even like the new version of Wildest Dreams.
That line: "And you call me up again just to break me like a promise; so casually cruel in the name of being honest."
Brutal, in the best possible way.
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definitely one the best lines she’s ever written
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I actually think the new version of the normal length of All Too Well was a letdown. The guitars aren't as in your face as the original. I love those rocking chords just before the "maybe we got lost in translation" bridge, and the new version doesn't have the guitar as high in the mix and thus doesn't have the intensity of the original, but I still agree that she is the bomb. :coolio :coolio
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As for her best lines, it is hard to beat that bridge from All Too Well, I agree, but she has so many good ones.
I think "All that I know is I don't know how to be something you miss" from Last Kiss is particularly great as well, as it sums up perfectly a relationship slipping away and that feeling of helplessness that there is nothing you can do about it.
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I can't remember all of them, but we must have said "wow, that's a great line" like five or six times on that ride.
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I can't remember all of them, but we must have said "wow, that's a great line" like five or six times on that ride.
I referenced Last Kiss from the Speak Now album, but from Red, I think this line from Treacherous (one of my favorite songs of hers) is a great one:
"And I just think you should, think you should know
That nothing safe is worth the drive."
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As if we needed more proof of what a sweetheart Taylor is...
https://www.billboard.com/music/chart-beat/taylor-swift-don-mclean-gift-hot-100-record-1235004943/
Don McLean received an unexpected surprise from Taylor Swift in the mail this week, after the younger singer-songwriter broke his decades-long record on the Billboard Hot 100.
On Wednesday (Dec. 1), the “American Pie” singer shared a photo of Swift’s gift of flowers and a sweet note. “What a classy artist!” McLean tweeted, sharing Swift’s handwritten inscription that reads, “Don, I will never forget that I’m standing on the shoulders of giants. Your music has been so important to me. Sending love one writer of LONG SONGS to another. Your fan, Taylor.”
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Yeah, she's been absolutely classy and sweet, but one extended version of a song doesn't make her a "writer of long songs", as everyone registered on a Dream Theater forum should know ;D
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Yeah, she's been absolutely classy and sweet, but one extended version of a song doesn't make her a "writer of long songs", as everyone registered on a Dream Theater forum should know ;D
Right, it makes her a writer of a long song (singular). :P :P
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To paraphrase a great quote from an horrible movie (Street Fighter), "when Taylor Swift made a 10 minute song, it looked like the most amazing thing she could do. For Dream Theater, it was a Tuesday" :lol
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it does remind of a thought I had the other day. When us prog fans think of long songs or "epics" what we have in mind isn't really the same thing at all as songs like American Pie or the new All Too Well version. A long song from Dream Theater is in the mold of old epics from Yes or Genesis or Pink Floyd etc. where they all included extended solos and/or instrumental passages. But here Don Mclean or Taylor Swift are basically singing the entire time.
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Never underestimate the power of storytelling. Both American Pie and All Too Well feature great storytelling.
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it does remind of a thought I had the other day. When us prog fans think of long songs or "epics" what we have in mind isn't really the same thing at all as songs like American Pie or the new All Too Well version. A long song from Dream Theater is in the mold of old epics from Yes or Genesis or Pink Floyd etc. where they all included extended solos and/or instrumental passages. But here Don Mclean or Taylor Swift are basically singing the entire time.
Also Blind Guardian's 14 minutes And Then there was Silence is filled with lyrics (and therefore vocal lines) from beginning to end. Actually I'd very much welcome a long DT song where James sings at least 85% of the time, something like Voices (yeah, it has a long solo section obviously, but it's not as dominating as, say, the solo section of Metropolis).
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Also Blind Guardian's 14 minutes And Then there was Silence is filled with lyrics (and therefore vocal lines) from beginning to end. Actually I'd very much welcome a long DT song where James sings at least 85% of the time, something like Voices (yeah, it has a long solo section obviously, but it's not as dominating as, say, the solo section of Metropolis).
I will preface this by saying that DT is one of my 2-4 favorite bands/artists of all time (whether they rank 2, 3 or 4 depends on what day you ask me), but lyrics and storytelling isn't exactly a strength of theirs. They have had some good lyrics over the years, and some really good ones early on, including the one you mentioned in Voices, which I think is JP's greatest lyrical achievement to date, but not sure at this stage they have the storytelling chops when it comes to words to pull off a 10-minute plus song that is almost all singing and very low on the instrumental sections. I get that Taylor Swift is not for everyone here - hell, I am still kinda shocked she has been for me, to the point where she is my most-listened-to artist of 2021 and it's probably not close - but great lyrics and storytelling are her greatest strength, which is why All Too Well works so well as a 10-minute song, even if I personally think that the 5 1/2-minute version from the original Red is still better.
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Found this version of Wildest Dreams:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGDkg3QiJmk&ab_channel=TaylorSwift
Damn the lady can sing.
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Found this version of Wildest Dreams:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGDkg3QiJmk&ab_channel=TaylorSwift
Damn the lady can sing.
I guess it shows how much I've listened and watched in the last year when I knew what that was going to be before even clicking on it. :lol :lol
But yeah, great performance. :tup :tup
Also, INB4 Bill expresses his mad love again for Wildest Dreams. :biggrin: :biggrin:
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You called? :) :) :) :)
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You called? :) :) :) :)
That was not mad love. ;)
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I'll gladly take more songs like The Very First Night.
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I'll gladly take more songs like The Very First Night.
Yeah, that and Message in a Bottle are fun little ear worms, and I like the balance she struck with not only Red, but the From the Vault tracks on Red TV. Just a couple of dance pop songs. 1989 is great, but I wouldn't want her to go back to dance pop being her main genre.
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I'll gladly take more songs like The Very First Night.
Yeah, that and Message in a Bottle are fun little ear worms, and I like the balance she struck with not only Red, but the From the Vault tracks on Red TV. Just a couple of dance pop songs. 1989 is great, but I wouldn't want her to go back to dance pop being her main genre.
Me too. That'll get in the way of her progressive metal concept album.
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Me too. That'll get in the way of her progressive metal concept album.
:lol :lol
To all fans, if you have not seen this interview yet, watch it. It is nearly an hour, but it is most excellent. The interviewer is great, and listening to her talk so in depth about her songwriting is a joy to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQacWbsLbS4
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After 3 minutes all I could think about was why they each had 2 cameras pointed at themselves and why it kept cutting back and forth. It's like those interviews where for no reason they cut to a black and white shot.
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After 3 minutes all I could think about was why they each had 2 cameras pointed at themselves and why it kept cutting back and forth. It's like those interviews where for no reason they cut to a black and white shot.
I suspect that is done for the sake of breaking up the visual a little so viewers do not have the exact same shot for x-number of minutes.
I loved the part of this interview where Taylor talks about how for Folklore, she threw away her "this is what I normally do" checklist. I can think of a few artists (no names!) that I wish would do that once in a while.
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After 3 minutes all I could think about was why they each had 2 cameras pointed at themselves and why it kept cutting back and forth. It's like those interviews where for no reason they cut to a black and white shot.
I suspect that is done for the sake of breaking up the visual a little so viewers do not have the exact same shot for x-number of minutes.
I loved the part of this interview where Taylor talks about how for Folklore, she threw away her "this is what I normally do" checklist. I can think of a few artists (no names!) that I wish would do that once in a while.
It just annoyed me.
Would you rather they bring back the inspiration board?
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After 3 minutes all I could think about was why they each had 2 cameras pointed at themselves and why it kept cutting back and forth. It's like those interviews where for no reason they cut to a black and white shot.
I suspect that is done for the sake of breaking up the visual a little so viewers do not have the exact same shot for x-number of minutes.
I loved the part of this interview where Taylor talks about how for Folklore, she threw away her "this is what I normally do" checklist. I can think of a few artists (no names!) that I wish would do that once in a while.
It just annoyed me.
Would you rather they bring back the inspiration board?
I didn't necessarily mean DT, although I would certainly welcome a curveball from them, but I don't expect it, especially at this stage of their career. It feels like most sudden left turns in direction work best when an artist does them in their early years rather than the later ones, although I am sure there are a few examples to the contrary.
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Well, in 2016 we got an astonishing curveball :D
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Well, a year ago today, we got Evermore. :coolio :coolio
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Finally bought Red (Taylor’s Version), I’ve never listened to the album so looking forward to listening to it. I actually like I Knew You Were Trouble and We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together so I’m sure I’ll atleast really like the album.
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Finally bought Red (Taylor’s Version), I’ve never listened to the album so looking forward to listening to it. I actually like I Knew You Were Trouble and We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together so I’m sure I’ll atleast really like the album.
The original is better by a pretty sizable margin in my view, but if you have never heard either, I am sure TV will do just fine. :tup :tup
For me, it was worth getting for the From the Vault tracks alone. Forever Winter is still something else.
BTW, Ms. Swift turned 32 today. :hat :hat
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yeah happy birthday to our girl Taylor, feeling 32 indeed :P
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yeah happy birthday to our girl Taylor, feeling 32 indeed :P
And of course the detective fans are now convinced that she will be announcing TV of Speak Now any day now, as she didn't say anything about the 1-year anniversary of Evermore (which she usually does, apparently), and of course Back to December from Speak Now has the "When your birthday passed and I didn't call" line, so it would be just like her to tie them together to announce it sometime in December. She is clever like that. :lol
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Everything is connected. Taylor Swift is the true mastermind of Marvel Studios. Kevin Fiege is just a puppet figurehead.
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she didn't say anything about the 1-year anniversary of Evermore (which she usually does, apparently)
You mean that she is used (as in, it's a little tradition repeated over time) to talk about the anniversary of an album that is just one year old?
;D
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she didn't say anything about the 1-year anniversary of Evermore (which she usually does, apparently)
You mean that she is used (as in, it's a little tradition repeated over time) to talk about the anniversary of an album that is just one year old?
;D
Exactly. :lol
I would implore any fan to watch the below. Fantastic performance of Speak Now from the titular tour in 2011. Fun little theatrical stage presentation, Taylor's voice sounds tremendous here (I think this live version slays the studio version), and the last two minutes is a shining example of why her fans absolutely adore her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgklxw_hNNk
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I love that live video.
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Nice to see Rick Beato dedicate a segment to her!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqHePc6Yu7w&t=1s
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I saw that legal Eagle video he mentions at the beginning, it was very informative and was happily surprised to see Rick Beato show up
https://youtu.be/M-A_RrOeoWw
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I saw that legal Eagle video he mentions at the beginning, it was very informative and was happily surprised to see Rick Beato show up
https://youtu.be/M-A_RrOeoWw
I saw that back when it first aired. I watch Beato somewhat regularly and really do not remember him mentioning Taylor, so I had wondered if he was not a fan at all and never mentioned her because he knew the wrath of the online Swifties wouldn't be pretty :lol, but it's good to see he appreciates her on some level. :tup :tup
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I saw that legal Eagle video he mentions at the beginning, it was very informative and was happily surprised to see Rick Beato show up
https://youtu.be/M-A_RrOeoWw
I saw that back when it first aired. I watch Beato somewhat regularly and really do not remember him mentioning Taylor, so I had wondered if he was not a fan at all and never mentioned her because he knew the wrath of the online Swifties wouldn't be pretty :lol, but it's good to see he appreciates her on some level. :tup :tup
He’s talked about her before a few times when discussing trends in pop music and songwriting.
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I saw that legal Eagle video he mentions at the beginning, it was very informative and was happily surprised to see Rick Beato show up
https://youtu.be/M-A_RrOeoWw
I saw that back when it first aired. I watch Beato somewhat regularly and really do not remember him mentioning Taylor, so I had wondered if he was not a fan at all and never mentioned her because he knew the wrath of the online Swifties wouldn't be pretty :lol, but it's good to see he appreciates her on some level. :tup :tup
He’s talked about her before a few times when discussing trends in pop music and songwriting.
I believe it. I am admittedly less likely to watch those videos. I love his "what makes this song great?" series, although it seems like he has gotten away from that, probably because he is tired of them getting blocked by the nimrod record companies.
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I saw that legal Eagle video he mentions at the beginning, it was very informative and was happily surprised to see Rick Beato show up
https://youtu.be/M-A_RrOeoWw
I saw that back when it first aired. I watch Beato somewhat regularly and really do not remember him mentioning Taylor, so I had wondered if he was not a fan at all and never mentioned her because he knew the wrath of the online Swifties wouldn't be pretty :lol, but it's good to see he appreciates her on some level. :tup :tup
He’s talked about her before a few times when discussing trends in pop music and songwriting.
I believe it. I am admittedly less likely to watch those videos. I love his "what makes this song great?" series, although it seems like he has gotten away from that, probably because he is tired of them getting blocked by the nimrod record companies.
Yeah, I wish he’d do more of those, but I’m sure they take a lot of time in addition to the risk of them being blocked.
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Yeah, I wish he’d do more of those, but I’m sure they take a lot of time in addition to the risk of them being blocked.
His aggravation about so many getting blocked was clear, and I suspect that has taken a lot of the fun out of it for him, which is why he has gone with different topics now for a while.
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Yeah, I wish he’d do more of those, but I’m sure they take a lot of time in addition to the risk of them being blocked.
His aggravation about so many getting blocked was clear, and I suspect that has taken a lot of the fun out of it for him, which is why he has gone with different topics now for a while.
You would think he could just get permission before hand. Maybe not from the likes of Eagles or the Stones, but there are plenty of bands who would let him do it just for the exposure. I wish he’d focus on some of the more obscure or smaller artists. Like he did one from XTC and got permission to use the original tracks. Of course he’s gonna want the bigger acts for the clicks.
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Yeah, I wish he’d do more of those, but I’m sure they take a lot of time in addition to the risk of them being blocked.
His aggravation about so many getting blocked was clear, and I suspect that has taken a lot of the fun out of it for him, which is why he has gone with different topics now for a while.
You would think he could just get permission before hand. Maybe not from the likes of Eagles or the Stones, but there are plenty of bands who would let him do it just for the exposure. I wish he’d focus on some of the more obscure or smaller artists. Like he did one from XTC and got permission to use the original tracks. Of course he’s gonna want the bigger acts for the clicks.
Given how much he talked up All Too Well, he ought to do that one! I'd be surprised if she'd be the type to have a problem with it, and given the size of her fanbase, it could be his most watched one ever. Clicks galore!
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https://www.nme.com/news/music/taylor-swift-announced-as-first-global-ambassador-of-record-store-day-3142393
They couldn't have chosen a better ambassador. (see below for a good reason why)
https://www.nme.com/news/music/taylor-swift-surprises-indie-record-stores-by-shipping-signed-folklore-cds-2734343
Being a fan of hers is so darn easy. :hat :hat
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New song called Carolina coming soon! It was written to be part of a soundtrack for a film, and bits of it can be heard in the trailer below. It's a solo write by Taylor, and produced by Aaron Dessner. Sounds like a continuation of the Folklore and Evermore vibe. :hat :hat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY3808Iq0Tg
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Taylor's Version of This Love (from 1989) is now out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvxQYPR4lmU
I have to admit that this song didn't make much of a dent for me last year when I did my long and highly enjoyable run through his catalogue, as a new fan and all, but this new version sounds quite nice. And I am sure the original is good as well (just need to give it a refresher).
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Hey Kev what are your thoughts on Reputation? Just bought it today. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything on it.
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Hey Kev what are your thoughts on Reputation? Just bought it today. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything on it.
I like it a lot. It one of those albums that feels deeply flawed, but I can't help but like a lot.
The obvious flaws to me are:
a) it feels overproduced. Take a song like King of My Heart, which has a really melody, but it gets lost far too often in that damned vocoder effect they used on her voice too often on that record. I am not a fan of it, as it sounds like a computer is singing. Consider how "real" Taylor's music is, given how she, for good or bad, writes what she is feeling at that moment, those little moments feel a bit too modern day "unreal"-sounding pop.
b) I am not fan of the urban elements on the record. Anyone who knows me knows I do not care for rap or hip hop, so stuff like the verses in ...Ready for It?, the verses by the rapper in End Game, and the choruses in Look What You Made Me Do (great song outside of that thud of a chorus) are mostly hard passes for me.
That said, I love the dark, nighttime overall feel of the record. While I really like the 80s pop vibe of 1989 and the bright sunny day pop vibe of Lover, the vibe of Reputation is my favorite from her three outright pop records.
Ultimately, the album works for me as a whole because it has the songs. In particular, I think Delicate (even with it kicking off with the vocoder effect) is one of her best songs ever, Gateway Car is insanely catchy and all kinds of fun, Call It What You Want is a melodic gem, and I love the almost R&B feel of Don't Blame Me. I wouldn't want her, or any artist I actively follow, to make a habit out of records like this, but as a one-off in her career, it is very nice, especially since of her other albums sound anything like it.
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Taylor's Version of This Love (from 1989) is now out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvxQYPR4lmU
I have to admit that this song didn't make much of a dent for me last year when I did my long and highly enjoyable run through his catalogue, as a new fan and all, but this new version sounds quite nice. And I am sure the original is good as well (just need to give it a refresher).
so is 1989 the next Taylor's Version release? Starting to feel like it. Unless it's been announced and I just don't know it
from her instagram yesterday https://www.instagram.com/p/CdM9ZnRucAa/
This Love (My version!) is out & I’m currently reliving the 1989 tour in my head and spiraling, it’s fine
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Taylor's Version of This Love (from 1989) is now out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvxQYPR4lmU
I have to admit that this song didn't make much of a dent for me last year when I did my long and highly enjoyable run through his catalogue, as a new fan and all, but this new version sounds quite nice. And I am sure the original is good as well (just need to give it a refresher).
so is 1989 the next Taylor's Version release? Starting to feel like it. Unless it's been announced and I just don't know it
from her instagram yesterday https://www.instagram.com/p/CdM9ZnRucAa/
This Love (My version!) is out & I’m currently reliving the 1989 tour in my head and spiraling, it’s fine
I think the internet would broken by now had she announced an official release date of 1989 TV :lol. My guess is that won't get released until the Shake It Off lawsuit is resolved. It wouldn't surprise if Big Machine and other record companies are funding this suit behind the scenes and throwing money around to spread it out as a way of annoying her as a payback for this venture of hers that is forcing all record companies to write their contacts in a different way. Record companies are big money, and no way will they sit back and do nothing while Taylor keeps taking victory laps with each TV release.
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Hey Kev what are your thoughts on Reputation? Just bought it today. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything on it.
I like it a lot. It one of those albums that feels deeply flawed, but I can't help but like a lot.
The obvious flaws to me are:
a) it feels overproduced. Take a song like King of My Heart, which has a really melody, but it gets lost far too often in that damned vocoder effect they used on her voice too often on that record. I am not a fan of it, as it sounds like a computer is singing. Consider how "real" Taylor's music is, given how she, for good or bad, writes what she is feeling at that moment, those little moments feel a bit too modern day "unreal"-sounding pop.
b) I am not fan of the urban elements on the record. Anyone who knows me knows I do not care for rap or hip hop, so stuff like the verses in ...Ready for It?, the verses by the rapper in End Game, and the choruses in Look What You Made Me Do (great song outside of that thud of a chorus) are mostly hard passes for me.
That said, I love the dark, nighttime overall feel of the record. While I really like the 80s pop vibe of 1989 and the bright sunny day pop vibe of Lover, the vibe of Reputation is my favorite from her three outright pop records.
Ultimately, the album works for me as a whole because it has the songs. In particular, I think Delicate (even with it kicking off with the vocoder effect) is one of her best songs ever, Gateway Car is insanely catchy and all kinds of fun, Call It What You Want is a melodic gem, and I love the almost R&B feel of Don't Blame Me. I wouldn't want her, or any artist I actively follow, to make a habit out of records like this, but as a one-off in her career, it is very nice, especially since of her other albums sound anything like it.
Just listened to it and I honestly loved it. Don’t get why it’s considered her worst album by many, it’s much better than Lover imo.
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I also love Reputation and like it a lot better than Lover (although I haven't listened to Lover all that much). I'd agree with Kev that Delicate is one of her best songs ever. I'm also, personally, a big fan of ...Ready for It?—I think it's cool that it has something of a heavy feeling to it, even while being largely electronic.
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I don't like Lover, but it's the better of the two stinker albums.
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imo both reputation and lover suffer a little bit from that phenomenon where the songs that were chosen as singles were not the best songs from those records. Exception for Delicate which was a single (I think) and the title track from Lover which I like and kind of points to where she was going to end up on Folklore and Evermore.
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I will repeat that I cannot believe a) I Forgot That You Existed she considered good enough to make a record, and b) that it was the first track on Lover. That song is terrible.
Overall, I like Lover quite a bit, but it's a weird listen from start to finish, even with always starting with Cruel Summer (track 2). I just like the vibe and feel of Reputation overall a bit more, and with the little bit of reading I have done online on her fan pages (I can only take so much by hardcore Swifties :lol), it seems pretty well liked by online fans.
I may have to do that rankings engine thing with her and see how many songs from each would make my top 50. :coolio :coolio
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Okay, I gave it a whirl and this is what I got.
Rank Item
1 Enchanted
2 All Too Well (original)
3 This Is Me Trying
4 Gold Rush
5 Sad Beautiful Tragic
6 The Story of Us
7 Back to December
8 Treacherous
9 Champagne Problems
10 Begin Again
11 Mirrorball
12 Cowboy Like Me
13 Holy Ground
14 Speak Now
15 Exile
16 Cardigan
17 Marjorie
18 Forever Winter
19 The Last Great American Dynasty
20 State of Grace
21 Coney Island
22 Long Story Short
23 Delicate
24 Lover
25 Long Live
26 Illicit Affairs
27 My Tears Ricochet
28 The Lucky One
29 Clean
30 Fifteen
31 Forever and Always
32 The Archer
33 The Last Time
34 Cornelia Street
35 Love Story
36 Don't Blame Me
37 Last Kiss
38 Wildest Dreams
39 Betty
40 Shake It Off
41 Getaway Car
42 Starlight
43 Invisible String
44 Sparks Fly
45 Cruel Summer
46 Call It What You Want
47 Today Was a Fairytale
48 Epiphany
49 Ours
50 Haunted
Breakdown per album:
Self-titled - 0
Fearless - 3
Speak Now - 8
Red - 9
1989 - 3
Reputation - 4
Lover - 4
Folklore - 10
Evermore - 6
Singles/bonus tracks/etc. - 3
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If I made a list right now, it would have to exclude all of the last three albums, which I haven't spent much time with, but Enchanted is a great #1 choice. Would probably be top 5 for me. Actually, a lot of my top choices would come from Speak Now, which I think might still be my favorite TS album.
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Wildest Dreams - one of the greatest pure pop songs ever written - at #38?!? Usually I am right there with you on Taylor Swift, but that's EGREGIOUS.
Oh, and my daughter says 1989 is officially next, but no hard date.
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Wildest Dreams is a fine song, but that's a bit much.
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Wildest Dreams - one of the greatest pure pop songs ever written - at #38?!? Usually I am right there with you on Taylor Swift, but that's EGREGIOUS.
I swear, I knew you were gonna comment on that. :lol :P
Damn fine song, yes, but I just like 37 (in a row?!) more. :coolio :coolio
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Okay, I gave it a whirl and this is what I got.
Rank Item
1 Enchanted
2 All Too Well (original)
3 This Is Me Trying
4 Gold Rush
5 Sad Beautiful Tragic
6 The Story of Us
7 Back to December
8 Treacherous
9 Champagne Problems
10 Begin Again
11 Mirrorball
12 Cowboy Like Me
13 Holy Ground
14 Speak Now
15 Exile
16 Cardigan
17 Marjorie
18 Forever Winter
19 The Last Great American Dynasty
20 State of Grace
21 Coney Island
22 Long Story Short
23 Delicate
24 Lover
25 Long Live
26 Illicit Affairs
27 My Tears Ricochet
28 The Lucky One
29 Clean
30 Fifteen
31 Forever and Always
32 The Archer
33 The Last Time
34 Cornelia Street
35 Love Story
36 Don't Blame Me
37 Last Kiss
38 Wildest Dreams
39 Betty
40 Shake It Off
41 Getaway Car
42 Starlight
43 Invisible String
44 Sparks Fly
45 Cruel Summer
46 Call It What You Want
47 Today Was a Fairytale
48 Epiphany
49 Ours
50 Haunted
Breakdown per album:
Self-titled - 0
Fearless - 3
Speak Now - 8
Red - 9
1989 - 3
Reputation - 4
Lover - 4
Folklore - 10
Evermore - 6
Singles/bonus tracks/etc. - 3
no dbatc. no dear john. smfh. atwtmvtvftw is the superior version. #imupset
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no dbatc. no dear john. smfh. atwtmvtvftw is the superior version. #imupset
I suspect you will get over it. ;)
Death by a Thousand Cuts would have made my top 50 a year ago. I still dig it, but I guess many others are more to my liking these days. Dear John is very good as well, and I think that one just missed the cut. While I think it will be difficult for Taylor to recapture the youthful charm of her vocals on the original Speak Now, Dear John is one I think could be a lot better on TV, as I think she will hit some of those notes a lot better now.
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My hot take is that I would probably have Tim McGraw in my top ten. I know some people can't abide the overtly country sound of the first album, and she has generally improved a lot as a songwriter since that time, but that song just knocks it out of the park.
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Finally listened to the new This Love. I got chills. Such a great song.
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My hot take is that I would probably have Tim McGraw in my top ten. I know some people can't abide the overtly country sound of the first album, and she has generally improved a lot as a songwriter since that time, but that song just knocks it out of the park.
Not that I am a country expert, but I have checked out some of the first album, and it feels like most of the country elements in those songs are pretty superficial, from the steel guitar to her fake country twang. :lol There is no doubt, though, that she was writing at a high level early on, as you can hear it even if that early material. I get why it appealed to so many, even if it's the material of hers that I gravitate towards the least.
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I agree that it's not deeply country. But a lot of people have such an aversion to that genre that even hearing steel guitar or something like that really repels them. See the reaction some have to Metallica's Mama Said, also a song that is not deeply country, but is basically a Metallica ballad with a steel guitar.
There's stuff from the first album that doesn't interest me very much anymore, but are several songs that I definitely think are high-level. I'd say Tim McGraw, Teardrops on My Guitar, Our Song and Picture to Burn make a really solid top four.
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I agree that it's not deeply country. But a lot of people have such an aversion to that genre that even hearing steel guitar or something like that really repels them. See the reaction some have to Metallica's Mama Said, also a song that is not deeply country, but is basically a Metallica ballad with a steel guitar.
There's stuff from the first album that doesn't interest me very much anymore, but are several songs that I definitely think are high-level. I'd say Tim McGraw, Teardrops on My Guitar, Our Song and Picture to Burn make a really solid top four.
I don't mind the steel guitar (heck, look at high I had Begin Again, where the steel guitar is really the only major country element used), but it was a few months ago at work when they had the modern country station on one day and it reminded me what two elements I dislike the most in country: 1) that country accent many country acts use when they sing, and 2) the fiddle. I love a violin, but that country-sounding way they often play it just bugs me. I guess that is why I liked Fearless TV much more than I thought I would because Taylor didn't do number 1 very much at all, and Tell Me Why is the only song that veered into the territory of the above number 2.
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begin again is so good.
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begin again is so good.
It is highly effective as the album closer as well. Red is her one true breakup album, and after a ton of breakup songs, the finale, Begin Again, is her catharsis, meeting someone new and realizing it is going to be okay. I really like that.
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Folks, may I present Dr. Swift:
(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/fSURydYMsbnHKwMJuxoyAzNDTbc=/1440x0/filters:format(jpg):quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/BGN34POS2NG4TKI2HBQ3WQRKRM.jpg)
:coolio :coolio
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she looks cute in absolutely anything
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It's funny because she said once she would like to receive an honorary doctorate but probably wasn't holding out for one :biggrin:
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Her commencement speech was really good. It helps that she is an eloquent public speaker.
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(https://brianmay.com/brian/hondoctorate/doc6.jpg)
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Folks, may I present Honorary Dr. Swift:
(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/fSURydYMsbnHKwMJuxoyAzNDTbc=/1440x0/filters:format(jpg):quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/BGN34POS2NG4TKI2HBQ3WQRKRM.jpg)
:coolio :coolio
fixed ;)
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I love her.
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And she's still more of a doctor than Kent Hovind.
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I'm nearly through my first proper TS listen. Her recent version of Red. Very impressed with the writing and performance so far. Solid as a rock.
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I'm nearly through my first proper TS listen. Her recent version of Red. Very impressed with the writing and performance so far. Solid as a rock.
Nice! That is quite a hill to climb as a starter, given that Taylor's Version of Red is 30 songs: the 16 songs from the original album + the original bonus tracks from those sessions + Ronan (a standalone single from that era) + all of the previously unreleased "from the vault" songs that she had never finished including the original All Too Well before it was made more concise for the original record.
Of the "from the vault" tracks, I stand by Forever Winter as being not only the best, but one of her best songs ever.
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Ah, yes! I'm only taking in the original track listing from it to start with. Leaves more for later if it settles in. :)
Edit: Enjoyed Red. Onto folklore now for a peek at recent output.
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I'm nearly through my first proper TS listen. Her recent version of Red. Very impressed with the writing and performance so far. Solid as a rock.
Nice! That is quite a hill to climb as a starter, given that Taylor's Version of Red is 30 songs: the 16 songs from the original album + the original bonus tracks from those sessions + Ronan (a standalone single from that era) + all of the previously unreleased "from the vault" songs that she had never finished including the original All Too Well before it was made more concise for the original record.
Of the "from the vault" tracks, I stand by Forever Winter as being not only the best, but one of her best songs ever.
I think I've determined Red is my favorite record of hers, overall. So good.
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Ah, yes! I'm only taking in the original track listing from it to start with. Leaves more for later if it settles in. :)
Edit: Enjoyed Red. Onto folklore now for a peek at recent output.
Nice. Let us know what you think! :tup :tup
I think I've determined Red is my favorite record of hers, overall. So good.
It really is. I love the variety on it, and even the few tunes that I never reach for on their own are just fine when doing full album listens.
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I'm nearly through my first proper TS listen. Her recent version of Red. Very impressed with the writing and performance so far. Solid as a rock.
Nice! That is quite a hill to climb as a starter, given that Taylor's Version of Red is 30 songs: the 16 songs from the original album + the original bonus tracks from those sessions + Ronan (a standalone single from that era) + all of the previously unreleased "from the vault" songs that she had never finished including the original All Too Well before it was made more concise for the original record.
Of the "from the vault" tracks, I stand by Forever Winter as being not only the best, but one of her best songs ever.
I think I've determined Red is my favorite record of hers, overall. So good.
I'd go with 1989 followed by Red, I think, and then perhaps Lover and Reputation. I like Folklore and Evermore but I find it tough to differentiate the tracks from one another; they all sort of merge into one. I'm not familiar enough with the earlier albums to rank them although I do like Fearless (TV).
Kev, let's do a DTF Swifties Top 50 next instead of the long anticipated Maiden countdown :lol
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I'd go with 1989 followed by Red, I think, and then perhaps Lover and Reputation. I like Folklore and Evermore but I find it tough to differentiate the tracks from one another; they all sort of merge into one. I'm not familiar enough with the earlier albums to rank them although I do like Fearless (TV).
Kev, let's do a DTF Swifties Top 50 next instead of the long anticipated Maiden countdown :lol
1989 is definitely up there too. So is Lover - songs like the title track, The Archer, Cornelia Street are among my very favorites in her catalog. Reputation is an album I need to revisit. And Folklore/Evermore are great too (slight preference for the former, but they are close). Bottom line, it's hard to argue with the consistency and quality of her output - in my opinion, if we talk about big popstars, not much comes close in the current scene.
I like Fearless and Speak Now a lot too - plenty of amazing songs in those. As "album" experiences, I tend to go for the more recent records, as I enjoy the wider spectrum of styles and sound. The earlier ones are a little more one-dimensional.
BTW, I might have missed this, but since it appears the next in line to get the TV treatment is 1989 - are there no plans to do the same with Speak Now? It just seems weird to not do it chronologically, but who knows...
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No, the first six albums are all getting the TV treatment. As to why she is not doing them in order, only she could answer that, and I doubt she will ever give a definitive answer to that, but my guess all along has been that she wanted this endeavor to be a big success right away, so by starting off first with Fearless, her first Album of the Year, and then following that up with Red, which was hugely successful and had her first number 1 hit, she came out swinging and made it to where the value of the original masters dropped pretty quickly, which sends a message to the peeps who currently own them. Had she gone in order, it is hard to say how much of a success TV of the debut would have been. I know that record was a big success as well, but as that is very much a country album, and it is possible that some of her original fans didn't stick with her once she strayed away from her country, it is possible that that one won't be the massive success that these others have been.
And actually, I think Speak Now does have a good variety when it comes to styles and sounds. While there are still plenty of acoustic songs and a few country tunes, that is probably her album that rocks the most.
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No, the first six albums are all getting the TV treatment. As to why she is not doing them in order, only she could answer that, and I doubt she will ever give a definitive answer to that, but my guess all along has been that she wanted this endeavor to be a big success right away, so by starting off first with Fearless, her first Album of the Year, and then following that up with Red, which was hugely successful and had her first number 1 hit, she came out swinging and made it to where the value of the original masters dropped pretty quickly, which sends a message to the peeps who currently own them. Had she gone in order, it is hard to say how much of a success TV of the debut would have been. I know that record was a big success as well, but as that is very much a country album, and it is possible that some of her original fans didn't stick with her once she strayed away from her country, it is possible that that one won't be the massive success that these others have been.
And actually, I think Speak Now does have a good variety when it comes to styles and sounds. While there are still plenty of acoustic songs and a few country tunes, that is probably her album that rocks the most.
Thanks, Kev. For some reason, I actually thought her debut wasn't published under the same label, and so wasn't part of the whole Scooter Braun ordeal...in my mind, she started from Fearless because that was the "first", so I was surprised when Red was next. I didn't have my facts straight :)
Yes, what you say makes perfect sense. Starting the Taylor's Version series with her debut wouldn't have made nearly the same impact...
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Thanks, Kev. For some reason, I actually thought her debut wasn't published under the same label, and so wasn't part of the whole Scooter Braun ordeal...in my mind, she started from Fearless because that was the "first", so I was surprised when Red was next. I didn't have my facts straight :)
Yes, what you say makes perfect sense. Starting the Taylor's Version series with her debut wouldn't have made nearly the same impact...
I think she has enough hardcore fans that it still would have been a success, but nothing on that first record is as iconic with the masses as Love Story, and that was the first song and video released from Fearless TV. That is what I call coming out of your corner swinging.
As I mentioned before, I suspect 1989 was planned to be the next one, but that the Shake It Off lawsuit is holding up its release.
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Ah, yes! I'm only taking in the original track listing from it to start with. Leaves more for later if it settles in. :)
Edit: Enjoyed Red. Onto folklore now for a peek at recent output.
Nice. Let us know what you think! :tup :tup
I think I've determined Red is my favorite record of hers, overall. So good.
It really is. I love the variety on it, and even the few tunes that I never reach for on their own are just fine when doing full album listens.
I've only listened to both Red and folklore through once and the first few tracks from both since so too early to know how they'll settle but I'm looking forward to getting back to them.
I noticed a few things on Red that sounded to me like they may have influenced my favourite pop band Chvrches, which is interesting. Also found myself unconsciously singing some of the songs when delving in the fridge so definitely catchy.
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I've only listened to both Red and folklore through once and the first few tracks from both since so too early to know how they'll settle but I'm looking forward to getting back to them.
I noticed a few things on Red that sounded to me like they may have influenced my favourite pop band Chvrches, which is interesting. Also found myself unconsciously singing some of the songs when delving in the fridge so definitely catchy.
Some just really know how to write a hook. And of course it helped that on Red, Max Martin and Shellback, who are like masters of pop songs with big hooks, helped her co-write a few of them.
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Another Red listen in. Great stuff. The first half is catching me more than the second at this point but that's the standard getting to know stuff pattern.
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Another Red listen in. Great stuff. The first half is catching me more than the second at this point but that's the standard getting to know stuff pattern.
I was like that at first, as the early tracks were my go-to ones for a while, but the last few months, the back half of the album has been more my go-to. Basically, the first half of the album got more attention last year, and now the second half of the album is getting its due in 2022. :tup :tup
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Another Red listen in. Great stuff. The first half is catching me more than the second at this point but that's the standard getting to know stuff pattern.
I was like that at first, as the early tracks were my go-to ones for a while, but the last few months, the back half of the album has been more my go-to. Basically, the first half of the album got more attention last year, and now the second half of the album is getting its due in 2022. :tup :tup
I love it when an album plans out like that. Survivor's When Seconds Count did that for me a couple of years ago and it's an abs top album for me now.
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I'm sure this has been answered in this thread somewhere, but I haven't been following, and I'm not really a Taylor Swift fan. However, just for the sake of my curiosity, are these new versions of her older albums all completely re-recorded (as in, newly recorded vocals and instruments) along with bonus tracks, etc. etc?
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I'm sure this has been answered in this thread somewhere, but I haven't been following, and I'm not really a Taylor Swift fan. However, just for the sake of my curiosity, are these new versions of her older albums all completely re-recorded (as in, newly recorded vocals and instruments) along with bonus tracks, etc. etc?
Yes, that's it. Completely re-recorded and with quite a bit of bonus material, too.
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I'm sure this has been answered in this thread somewhere, but I haven't been following, and I'm not really a Taylor Swift fan. However, just for the sake of my curiosity, are these new versions of her older albums all completely re-recorded (as in, newly recorded vocals and instruments) along with bonus tracks, etc. etc?
Basically, yeah. The first two both had non-album singles released around the same time re-recorded for TV, and both had "from the vault" tracks that are songs from those eras that she had written, but never recorded and released. But, yes, they are complete re-recordings. The biggest difference is her voice. Love Story plays at work quite often, and both the original and the new version get played, and I can immediately tell the difference since one has Taylor at 18 singing and the other has Taylor at 30 singing.
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Another Red listen in. Great stuff. The first half is catching me more than the second at this point but that's the standard getting to know stuff pattern.
I was like that at first, as the early tracks were my go-to ones for a while, but the last few months, the back half of the album has been more my go-to. Basically, the first half of the album got more attention last year, and now the second half of the album is getting its due in 2022. :tup :tup
I love it when an album plans out like that. Survivor's When Seconds Count did that for me a couple of years ago and it's an abs top album for me now.
Some of my favorite albums ever were like that for me, where I got into this handful of tracks in a big way at first and then later got into the others in a big way. I love when that happens as well. :tup :tup
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Another listen through of Red today. Very impressed. The writing, performance and production is top notch. And the variation is great. Entertaining songs, very professionally done. And it comes over as completely sincere.
I'm much more interested in this than any run of the mill metal band. Great.
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Another listen through of Red today. Very impressed. The writing, performance and production is top notch. And the variation is great. Entertaining songs, very professionally done. And it comes over as completely sincere.
I'm much more interested in this than any run of the mill metal band. Great.
Yeah, I am so glad I am long past that "I love this genre, so I need more stuff from it even it is average" phase, as that thinking can cause you to miss out on a lot of great music from other genres.
And heck yeah with regards to the sincerity. Her music feels very real, because it is. :coolio
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"The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Bob Monkhouse
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"The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Bob Monkhouse
Bob - what an amazing professional he was. It's about time someone did a documentary or something on him.
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"The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Bob Monkhouse
Are you implying that Ms. Swift is faking her sincerity, and if the answer is yes, why do you think this?
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"The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Bob Monkhouse
Are you implying that Ms. Swift is faking her sincerity, and if the answer is yes, why do you think this?
FWIW I don't think "fake" is the right word, but more along the lines of "carefully managed". And I'm saying this as a huge fan
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edit: double post
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The most successful music is what people can relate to. I don't think Taylor would be on the map if she chose different topics to write about. Pretty sure love songs and breakup songs make up 99% of pop music.
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I would submit that she is great at knowing how to market herself, but implying that she is faking her sincerity, to me, is suggesting that her songs (lyrically) are not sincere, and I can't imagine anyone actually thinking that considering how much she rips herself open and puts it all out there, something her detractors love to poke fun about ("OMG, all she does is write songs about exes!").
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I would submit that she is great at knowing how to market herself, but implying that she is faking her sincerity, to me, is suggesting that her songs (lyrically) are not sincere, and I can't imagine anyone actually thinking that considering how much she rips herself open and puts it all out there, something her detractors love to poke fun about ("OMG, all she does is write songs about exes!").
I've said it before, and I'll likely say it again: she's this generation's Bruce Springsteen. She is no more or less sincere or no more or less "carefully managed" than Bruce Springsteen. You cannot be that big a star, that big an artist, and not have some controls around your image or presentation. It doesn't bother a single person, apparently, that Bruce hasn't worked in a factory a day in his life, and yet has written compellingly about that sector of American society with a deep and abiding respect. He - and Billy Joel - have written informatively and emotionally about the Vietnam experience, and have been praised for it, and the closest either has come to actual combat is Call Of Duty Modern Warfare 3.
I saw Bruce on Broadway, and was about 15 feet away as he drove up in his Suburban and entered the theater. He as a way of walking where he stops periodically (and sometimes waves) to give people looking at him the opportunity to take photos. All the while having a conversation with the people with him. It's a bizarre thing, and something that if you're in person is clearly noticeable. If that's not "carefully managed" I don't know what is. These people get to a level where - at least at the level of interaction with the public - are not like us.
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I would submit that she is great at knowing how to market herself, but implying that she is faking her sincerity, to me, is suggesting that her songs (lyrically) are not sincere, and I can't imagine anyone actually thinking that considering how much she rips herself open and puts it all out there, something her detractors love to poke fun about ("OMG, all she does is write songs about exes!").
I've said it before, and I'll likely say it again: she's this generation's Bruce Springsteen. She is no more or less sincere or no more or less "carefully managed" than Bruce Springsteen. You cannot be that big a star, that big an artist, and not have some controls around your image or presentation. It doesn't bother a single person, apparently, that Bruce hasn't worked in a factory a day in his life, and yet has written compellingly about that sector of American society with a deep and abiding respect. He - and Billy Joel - have written informatively and emotionally about the Vietnam experience, and have been praised for it, and the closest either has come to actual combat is Call Of Duty Modern Warfare 3.
I saw Bruce on Broadway, and was about 15 feet away as he drove up in his Suburban and entered the theater. He as a way of walking where he stops periodically (and sometimes waves) to give people looking at him the opportunity to take photos. All the while having a conversation with the people with him. It's a bizarre thing, and something that if you're in person is clearly noticeable. If that's not "carefully managed" I don't know what is. These people get to a level where - at least at the level of interaction with the public - are not like us.
Great points, as usual. You don't get to the top and stay at the top by being clueless or not knowing how to manage your career and your image.
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Been listening to Red all week. It's simple stuff, really well done, which is very hard to get right.
To nitpick, for me it's a little long, but that's common. In short, a happy addition to my listening and will explore more of her catalogue when the time is right. Cheers!
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Been listening to Red all week. It's simple stuff, really well done, which is very hard to get right.
To nitpick, for me it's a little long, but that's common. In short, a happy addition to my listening and will explore more of her catalogue when the time is right. Cheers!
I think I Almost Do and Everything Has Changed, the two songs I never listen to on their own from the original Red, could have been chucked and the album would have been a smidge better, but even with those songs, it is still pretty great.
Keep us posted on what your next album is and we can discuss! :hat :hat
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Been listening to Red all week. It's simple stuff, really well done, which is very hard to get right.
To nitpick, for me it's a little long, but that's common. In short, a happy addition to my listening and will explore more of her catalogue when the time is right. Cheers!
I think I Almost Do and Everything Has Changed, the two songs I never listen to on their own from the original Red, could have been chucked and the album would have been a smidge better, but even with those songs, it is still pretty great.
Keep us posted on what your next album is and we can discuss! :hat :hat
Yes, the Ed Sheeran one. Does nothing for me. I think I'm with you on the other one as well.
Will let you know. :smiley: I listened to the opener on 1989 yesterday but it didn't do much for me so I'll probably go back to folklore as my next one.
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Been listening to Red all week. It's simple stuff, really well done, which is very hard to get right.
To nitpick, for me it's a little long, but that's common. In short, a happy addition to my listening and will explore more of her catalogue when the time is right. Cheers!
I think I Almost Do and Everything Has Changed, the two songs I never listen to on their own from the original Red, could have been chucked and the album would have been a smidge better, but even with those songs, it is still pretty great.
Keep us posted on what your next album is and we can discuss! :hat :hat
Yes, the Ed Sheeran one. Does nothing for me. I think I'm with you on the other one as well.
Will let you know. :smiley: I listened to the opener on 1989 yesterday but it didn't do much for me so I'll probably go back to folklore as my next one.
I like Everything Has Changed :)
Definitely don't give up on 1989...keep going, there's a lot to enjoy...
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I think Welcome to New York is all kinds of fun as the 1989 opener, but that's me.
I don't dislike Everything Has Changed. It's jut not one I ever want to hear. :lol :lol
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I think Welcome to New York is all kinds of fun as the 1989 opener, but that's me.
I don't dislike Everything Has Changed. It's jut not one I ever want to hear. :lol :lol
Oh, I like Welcome to New York too! I was just making sure Doctor keeps going ;D
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I think Welcome to New York is all kinds of fun as the 1989 opener, but that's me.
I don't dislike Everything Has Changed. It's jut not one I ever want to hear. :lol :lol
Oh, I like Welcome to New York too! I was just making sure Doctor keeps going ;D
Hehe, there ya go! As a sucker for a good pop song, Shake It Off is just so darn infectious, despite the silly bridge. I am a big fan of Clean from that record as well.
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I think Welcome to New York is all kinds of fun as the 1989 opener, but that's me.
I don't dislike Everything Has Changed. It's jut not one I ever want to hear. :lol :lol
Oh, I like Welcome to New York too! I was just making sure Doctor keeps going ;D
Hehe, there ya go! As a sucker for a good pop song, Shake It Off is just so darn infectious, despite the silly bridge. I am a big fan of Clean from that record as well.
:lol
I'll give 1989 a proper bash next, then.
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I'd give 1989 a 10/10 if it wasn't for Bad Blood. What a shit stain on a white carpet that song is.
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I'll give 1989 a proper bash next, then.
1989 completes the transition that started with Red, in that it's a full-blown, "modern" pop album, with no traces left of the sound (if not necessarily the songwriting) of the earlier albums. The production becomes much more "synthetic", both for the beats and the instrumentation. So be prepared for something different, that way. But there are plenty of fantastic songs in there.
I'd give 1989 a 10/10 if it wasn't for Bad Blood. What a shit stain on a white carpet that song is.
Yeah, I would agree...Bad Blood is one of my least favorites...
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Bad Blood is annoyingly catchy (one of those choruses that you can't get out of your head, but it is still kind of annoying), and I do like the "It's so sad..." pre-chorus, but the song otherwise is a big miss for me as well.
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I've not given 1989 a fair bash yet but have given another full listen to folklore. It's got some really great tracks on it. Like it very much.
She's really great. She does put out albums that are a bit long for my tastes, though. I've edited Red down to a 12 track, 48 minute playlist and I'll almost certainly do the same for folklore.
But I'm completely sold on her as an artist. Love it.
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I've not given 1989 a fair bash yet but have given another full listen to folklore. It's got some really great tracks on it. Like it very much.
She's really great. She does put out albums that are a bit long for my tastes, though. I've edited Red down to a 12 track, 48 minute playlist and I'll almost certainly do the same for folklore.
But I'm completely sold on her as an artist. Love it.
:tup :tup
Totally agree about totally buying her as an artist. I love that she didn't give in when she was a teenager just to make it. She held out until she got a deal that would allow her to write all of her own songs.
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New song called Carolina coming soon! It was written to be part of a soundtrack for a film, and bits of it can be heard in the trailer below. It's a solo write by Taylor, and produced by Aaron Dessner. Sounds like a continuation of the Folklore and Evermore vibe. :hat :hat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY3808Iq0Tg
It's out!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q94kA7llGw
Lovely little song. :heart :heart Taylor's voice.
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I've not given 1989 a fair bash yet but have given another full listen to folklore. It's got some really great tracks on it. Like it very much.
She's really great. She does put out albums that are a bit long for my tastes, though. I've edited Red down to a 12 track, 48 minute playlist and I'll almost certainly do the same for folklore.
But I'm completely sold on her as an artist. Love it.
:tup :tup
Totally agree about totally buying her as an artist. I love that she didn't give in when she was a teenager just to make it. She held out until she got a deal that would allow her to write all of her own songs.
Listened through all of 1989 while cooking tonight. Terrific pop record. Loved it. As a CHVRCHES fan this record fit sweetly.
(I find it bemusing how a piece of music can not penetrate my skull at all at one point in time, only to click beautifully at another. My enjoyment seems ridiculously fickle and mood-specific these days...)
Love the production on 1989. Sounds terrific. There were a couple of urban-flava'd sections that made me slightly nauseous but they were like 1% of the record. Good stuff.
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Listened through all of 1989 while cooking tonight. Terrific pop record. Loved it. As a CHVRCHES fan this record fit sweetly.
(I find it bemusing how a piece of music can not penetrate my skull at all at one point in time, only to click beautifully at another. My enjoyment seems ridiculously fickle and mood-specific these days...)
Love the production on 1989. Sounds terrific. There were a couple of urban-flava'd sections that made me slightly nauseous but they were like 1% of the record. Good stuff.
Nice! I don't really notice the sections to which you referred there at the end, but I am guessing the ones in Bad Blood? I never listen to that song, so it's like it's not there. :lol
But yeah, it's a fantastic sounding record, especially considering the age we are in.
Do you have the version with the bonus tracks? While not part of the regular album, New Romantics and Wonderland feel like must-have songs from that era.
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Listened through all of 1989 while cooking tonight. Terrific pop record. Loved it. As a CHVRCHES fan this record fit sweetly.
(I find it bemusing how a piece of music can not penetrate my skull at all at one point in time, only to click beautifully at another. My enjoyment seems ridiculously fickle and mood-specific these days...)
Love the production on 1989. Sounds terrific. There were a couple of urban-flava'd sections that made me slightly nauseous but they were like 1% of the record. Good stuff.
Nice! I don't really notice the sections to which you referred there at the end, but I am guessing the ones in Bad Blood? I never listen to that song, so it's like it's not there. :lol
But yeah, it's a fantastic sounding record, especially considering the age we are in.
Do you have the version with the bonus tracks? While not part of the regular album, New Romantics and Wonderland feel like must-have songs from that era.
Ha! Yes, that was it, I think. ;D
I've not tried the deluxe one yet. But will get there.
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I've not tried the deluxe one yet. But will get there.
:tup :tup
Might as well just wait for TV at this point, as that one likely will come out sooner rather than later and should have plenty of extra goodies to go with the original album and bonus tracks.
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Our queen is looking good tonight at the VMAs. :coolio :coolio
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbSSPJWaAAAY4n7?format=jpg&name=small)
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Did she steal that dress too?
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Taylor may break the internet tonight, as she announces that her brand new album, her 10th, will be out on October 21st. The album is called Midnights.
Hell yeah. :hat :hat
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Wonder if it'll be a bit of a move away from the last two?
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Wonder if it'll be a bit of a move away from the last two?
My guess based on nothing but the description she gave last night is that it will be somewhat similar to Folklore and Evermore, but different enough to where it doesn't sound like the 3rd part of a trilogy. I definitely get the "dreamy" vibe based on what little we know thus far.
And that is the cool thing about following her as an artist now, as she has reached the point where she announces a new album and it's pretty much a guessing game as to what it will be like and/or what the style will be. Great storytelling and excellent lyrics are the constants over her career, generally speaking, so I know we can count on those.
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Did she steal that dress too?
From a Christmas tree.
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at first I thought it was an announcement for 1989 taylor’s version, but this is much cooler than that(though I’m still looking forward to it)
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Our queen is looking good tonight at the VMAs. :coolio :coolio
the afterparty look is fantastic too:
(https://assets.teenvogue.com/photos/630cc4848fb664b194526f9b/master/w_1600,c_limit/1418938555)
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at first I thought it was an announcement for 1989 taylor’s version, but this is much cooler than that(though I’m still looking forward to it)
The re-recordings are cool and all, and I still have mad support for the endeavor, but the announcement of a brand new album with all new material is 100 times more exciting than that of one of the re-recordings, IMO.
Besides, I wouldn't count on 1989 TV till next year at the earliest due to the silly Shake It Off lawsuit which was just pushed back to January of next year.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CijbcdrsqKT/
https://store.taylorswift.com/
Kev are you gonna buy 4 vinyls (or cds) and make a clock? :rollin
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$90 plus shipping to get the whole CD version. 160+ for vinyl. Batteries not included.
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Nah, I will stick with the digital version.
Just like Folklore, Evermore and Red (TV), if I eventually see the vinyl at Target or something for an affordable price, I'll probably buy it, but I will pass on making a clock. :lol :lol
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I don't know a whole lot about her, but what I've heard so far she seems like a good song writer and is talented. I wonder if she's aware that she's getting some love in a Dream Theater forum? Or if she even knows who DT is?
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I don't know a whole lot about her, but what I've heard so far she seems like a good song writer and is talented. I wonder if she's aware that she's getting some love in a Dream Theater forum? Or if she even knows who DT is?
I'd be shocked if she knew who Dream Theater is. She is more of a rocker than many people realize*, but I don't think metal or prog is really in her musical DNA.
*Speak Now, her third album, is as much a rock album as it is a country album, if not more so. Even one of the two songs that most would describe as country more than anything, Mine, rocks pretty good in the choruses. And songs like The Story of Us, Long Live, Haunted and Enchanted are just flat-out rock songs, but Taylor's young voice (she was 20 when she wrote that album by herself and recorded it), which still had remnants of her fake country accent, can make it hard to get over the goal line for some in that regard, which I totally get.
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As far as I remember, she mentioned having been exposed to Def Leppard (particularly Pyromania and Hysteria) at a very early age, so that's some indication
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For sure.
I thought the below was a good read. I will copy and paste some good stuff that I think says it well. Not trying to convert anyone, but it feels like a lot of people here would have much more of an appreciation for her if they gave her a real chance.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/q5a7p4/why_do_you_think_taylor_swift_is_so_popular_among/
Why do you think Taylor Swift is so popular among rock / metal fans?
My friend sent me a screenshot of this post and she thought it was me lol. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a super dedicated hardcore Iron Maiden fan, I adore the band completely and they're the reason why I've grown into discovering a passion in music.
My friend is the one who introduced me into Taylor Swift, we did a few listening parties over Discord/Spotify and because she is without a doubt the most knowledgeable person when it comes to Taylor, she helped me understand the songs.
I've been hooked since. Why? I like my music telling stories, if you know Maiden then you know a majority of their songs tell epic tales, like When The Wild Wind Blows, Rime of the Ancient Mariner, the list goes on.
I can't stand listening to music without a meaning and I think Taylor does what Maiden does and dials it to 11. Each of her songs have an in depth meaning with very well thought out lyrics and you have some stories that span multiple songs. Plus she sounds fucking amazing
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I mostly listen to indie rock, and in the past it was mostly psychedelic and progressive rock, but Taylor has always been among my very favorite artist. These days I focus on the emotions behind music before anything else, I like things that feel dramatic and lyrical, and I've always gravitated towards anything that is better on repeated listens, that you can notice more and more details in the more you focus on it. To me, Taylor stands out from other pop artists because she has this narrative density in her songs, they take a while to fully unpack, and with her more recent work she writes about a big variety of things - her songs feel unpredictable on first listen and her career as a whole is definitely unpredictable, which holds my interest. There's a huge amount of passion put into everything she does, even when she's not singing about her own life, I feel those emotions coming from her vocals as strongly as if these things were happening to her, right now. I don't hate other pop music but I don't love most of it either, because it doesn't really have those qualities.
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Taylor Swift is a damn good artist and it doesn't matter what your preferred genre is when there's someone writing magic and singing it with passion. She works hard and she has a kind heart, which makes her fans stay loyal to her once they're attracted to her by her music.
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I was really into metal and indie in college. Metal is an incredibly complex genre and it really made me appreciate musicianship, songwriting, and mixing.
For me though, I got really tired of the elitism that can run in music nerd circles. I was into some obscure stuff and the culture can be insufferable (why do you think hipsters get so much hate).
I got turned onto Taylor slowly but embraced her in my adulthood because A) I wasn't so far up my own ass anymore and B) She is genuinely a great songwriter and the production on her albums is interesting. If she had stayed in country and never moved beyond Love Story she wouldn't be as interesting. But she has shown her diversity, talent and knowledge as an artist which I appreciate.
AND, it's okay to like something even if it isn't "cool" or mainstream. there's plenty in pop for serious music nerds to appreciate
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Nah, I will stick with the digital version.
Just like Folklore, Evermore and Red (TV), if I eventually see the vinyl at Target or something for an affordable price, I'll probably buy it, but I will pass on making a clock. :lol :lol
I bought the four versions of Lover for my daughter for Christmas. :) I guess I'm locked in to buying her a clock for Xmas this year. :)
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Nah, I will stick with the digital version.
Just like Folklore, Evermore and Red (TV), if I eventually see the vinyl at Target or something for an affordable price, I'll probably buy it, but I will pass on making a clock. :lol :lol
I bought the four versions of Lover for my daughter for Christmas. :) I guess I'm locked in to buying her a clock for Xmas this year. :)
There ya go. :tup :tup
I have a feeling tour dates are coming soon for next spring and summer as well. I am all-in to see her assuming she comes to STL.
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Wonder if it'll be a bit of a move away from the last two?
My guess based on nothing but the description she gave last night is that it will be somewhat similar to Folklore and Evermore, but different enough to where it doesn't sound like the 3rd part of a trilogy.
Good enough for me. As long as it's in the same ballpark, I'm in!
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She has way too much fun with this stuff. :lol :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cWpZi8WYNg
Also, very nice performance of the long version of All Too Well last night at the Nashville Songwriter Awards where she received the songwriter-artist of the decade award. Note that it is difficult to often hear her because of how loud the fans are singing along.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chOQCHu2UmU
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Meanwhile, Jake Gyllenhall: "OMFG how long I'll have to hear about that song about the goddamn scarf again" :rollin
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Meanwhile, Jake Gyllenhall: "OMFG how long I'll have to hear about that song about the goddamn scarf again" :rollin
HAHAHA
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She has way too much fun with this stuff. :lol :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cWpZi8WYNg
Also, very nice performance of the long version of All Too Well last night at the Nashville Songwriter Awards where she received the songwriter-artist of the decade award. Note that it is difficult to often hear her because of how loud the fans are singing along.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chOQCHu2UmU
It gets to me every single time I hear a new performance of this song, even a low quality cellphone video of it. I had tears in my eyes at the end watching it with headphones on in a mcdonalds lobby.
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It gets to me every single time I hear a new performance of this song, even a low quality cellphone video of it. I had tears in my eyes at the end watching it with headphones on in a mcdonalds lobby.
While I still prefer the original 5 1/2 minute version, the 10-minute TV is pretty amazing as well, and she has somehow managed to make the song even more popular than it already was. I don't see her ever playing the song in the arrangement we got on the original Red anymore. From this point forward, it will be always be the long version.
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I'm sick of the song to be honest. That said, I'd rather listen to it than any song from a certain other 2 albums she's released. But really though, it's a nice Song, but it's not amazing. Never was. I think I'm just sick of Taylor Swift. My wife is to blame for that one.
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Tell your wife to listen to other kinds of music. (and let me know how that goes :P :lol)
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Do you know what song I really like? Stay Stay Stay. It makes me warble along and smile. Had to share that :biggrin:
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Do you know what song I really like? Stay Stay Stay. It makes me warble along and smile. Had to share that :biggrin:
Yep, that song is so fun and bouncy, I can't help but enjoy it as well. I do think TV was one she kind of bungled, as the bass line, which is pretty rad in the original, was buried, but fortunately the original Red is still my go-to when I want to hear the proper album. :tup :tup
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That's interesting. It's Taylor's Version I've been listening to recently so I'll go back and check the original.
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That's interesting. It's Taylor's Version I've been listening to recently so I'll go back and check the original.
The below live version doesn't have the greatest quality (feels like bootleg quality), but you can hear the bass pretty well. The bass player is even featured prominently visually in the performance. And you can tell Taylor had an absolute blast singing this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOHAX3ZcoxQ
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Man, i’m a hit or miss Taylor listener (don’t lump me in as a fan, I dislike more than I enjoy) and even I gotta say the original version of Stay Stay Stay far and wide destroys the Taylor’s Version. Whoever mixed the new version really failed to understand how much that track made the song.
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That's interesting. It's Taylor's Version I've been listening to recently so I'll go back and check the original.
The below live version doesn't have the greatest quality (feels like bootleg quality), but you can hear the bass pretty well. The bass player is even featured prominently visually in the performance. And you can tell Taylor had an absolute blast singing this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOHAX3ZcoxQ
Oh, that was fun! Great to see the bass player being featured so much. Looked like he was really enjoying himself, too.
The bass is definitely mixed a little louder in the original version. Not by a massive amount, though. I'd have liked it to have been boosted a bit more even in that version.
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Man, i’m a hit or miss Taylor listener (don’t lump me in as a fan, I dislike more than I enjoy) and even I gotta say the original version of Stay Stay Stay far and wide destroys the Taylor’s Version. Whoever mixed the new version really failed to understand how much that track made the song.
Regardless of who mixed is, I suspect Taylor calls the shots, so whoever mixed if that way did so because she wanted it that way. I don't get it, but there were a few other choices on TV of Red that differed slightly from the original that I didn't get either, but her music, her choice. Like my beefs with the Flower Kings remixes, I don't have to like it, but the artist can do what they want with their music.
That's interesting. It's Taylor's Version I've been listening to recently so I'll go back and check the original.
The below live version doesn't have the greatest quality (feels like bootleg quality), but you can hear the bass pretty well. The bass player is even featured prominently visually in the performance. And you can tell Taylor had an absolute blast singing this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOHAX3ZcoxQ
Oh, that was fun! Great to see the bass player being featured so much. Looked like he was really enjoying himself, too.
The bass is definitely mixed a little louder in the original version. Not by a massive amount, though. I'd have liked it to have been boosted a bit more even in that version.
For sure, but I don't have any real complaints about the sound of her albums in general. Considering the last two decades have been the age of compression overload and the Loudness Wars, her albums usually sound quite good. Even her most overtly pop albums rarely sees the levels hitting the edges on the top or bottom (when looking at the levels on Audacity for example).
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Agreed. I think she genuinely cares about the quality of her output.
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Agreed. I think she genuinely cares about the quality of her output.
Absolutely. She is big on using the word "artist" to describe herself and others. She is the real deal. :hat :hat
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Five track titles down in Taylor's "Midnight Mayhem With Me" series, eight more to go! :coolio :coolio
1.
2. Maroon
3.
4.
5.
6. Midnight Rain
7. Question.. ?
8. Vigilante Shit
9.
10.
11.
12.
13. Mastermind
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I never would have imagined I was looking forward to a Taylor Swift album :lol
I mean, I'm gonna check it out regardless, but please please please let it be in the vein of folklore and evermore, even though not an exact carbon copy - I hope for more moody and minimalistic stuff, with no disco or overly commercial pop influences....
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I never would have imagined I was looking forward to a Taylor Swift album :lol
I mean, I'm gonna check it out regardless, but please please please let it be in the vein of folklore and evermore, even though not an exact carbon copy - I hope for more moody and minimalistic stuff, with no disco or overly commercial pop influences....
Based on the colors and aesthetics of her promos and clothing in the Midnight Mayhem With me series, I am guessing the album will not be overtly pop at all. I suspect it will be more like Folklore and Evermore than her previous albums, but still not that similar to either. She seems to really enjoy genre hopping, so be ready for anything. :lol :lol
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the prediction i'm seeing thrown around a lot (that i agree with) is that it'll be more minimal bedroom pop
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I'm still waiting for her to go full Atmospheric or Folk Black Metal. She already had the album cover for it with Folklore :corn
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get her in contact with the panopticon guy tbh
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We can all make predictions till we're blue in the face, but no one really knows anything.
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We can all make predictions till we're blue in the face, but no one really knows anything.
The only thing I know for sure is I'll be subjected to this album an obscene amount of times. My only hope is it's tolerable like the last two.
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get her in contact with the panopticon guy tbh
Yeah, that would be Austin Lunn and that's actually not a bad idea....He'd be relatively easy to reach out to through his bandcamp page. Getting ahold of Taylor Swift would be a whole other matter.
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We can all make predictions till we're blue in the face, but no one really knows anything.
The only thing I know for sure is I'll be subjected to this album an obscene amount of times. My only hope is it's tolerable like the last two.
Tolerable? the rest of her discography is tolerable, compared to the magnificence and brilliance of Folklore and Evermore.
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We can all make predictions till we're blue in the face, but no one really knows anything.
The only thing I know for sure is I'll be subjected to this album an obscene amount of times. My only hope is it's tolerable like the last two.
Tolerable? the rest of her discography is tolerable, compared to the magnificence and brilliance of Folklore and Evermore.
Hope she work with the Dessner's again, I feel Aaron added the magic to those albums.
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We can all make predictions till we're blue in the face, but no one really knows anything.
The only thing I know for sure is I'll be subjected to this album an obscene amount of times. My only hope is it's tolerable like the last two.
Tolerable? the rest of her discography is tolerable, compared to the magnificence and brilliance of Folklore and Evermore.
If you remove Shake it Off and the horrendous Bad Blood, 1989 is better than Folklore and Evermore combined. Opinions are fun.
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I'm not 100% sure I'd agree with that overall but those two sure are the worst songs on the album and stick out like a sore thumb huh
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Y'all are nuts. :P Shake It Off is, hands down, one of the greatest pop songs ever. Bad Blood has its moments, but is one I can pretty much do without.
Also, it looks like track 3 is called Anti-Hero, and Taylor said this about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2t1cvSdgDA
Her clothing is so 70s.
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Y'all are nuts. :P Shake It Off is, hands down, one of the greatest pop songs ever. Bad Blood has its moments, but is one I can pretty much do without.
Also, it looks like track 3 is called Anti-Hero, and Taylor said this about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2t1cvSdgDA
Her clothing is so 70s.
I can live with Shake it Off, but Bad Blood is one of the worst songs I've ever heard. If we're talking quality, SIO wouldn't make the cut, but it's not horrible.
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I’ve never understood the hate for Bad Blood. I think it’s an enjoyable song musically. Is it the lyrics? I’ve never paid attention to them.
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Well, the lyrics to Shake It Off are kinda silly at times, and she is usually at her best when writing top notch lyrics, but a fun song with silly lyrics can be quite nice, especially with it's that catchy.
At that Nashville thing a few weeks back, she explained that she groups her lyrics into three sets, with Shake It Off falling into the last category:
Quill Lyrics:
"I categorize certain songs of mine in the “Quill” style if the words and phrasings are antiquated, if I was inspired to write it after reading Charlotte Brontë or after watching a movie where everyone is wearing poet shirts and corsets. If my lyrics sound like a letter written by Emily Dickinson’s great grandmother while sewing a lace curtain, that’s me writing in the Quill genre."
Example: Ivy (from Evermore)
Fountain Pen Style:
"I’d say most of my lyrics fall into this category. Fountain pen style means a modern storyline or references, with a poetic twist. Taking a common phrase and flipping its meaning. Trying to paint a vivid picture of a situation, down to the chipped paint on the doorframe and the incense dust on the vinyl shelf. Placing yourself and whoever is listening right there in the room where it all happened. The love, the loss, everything. The songs I categorize in this style sound like confessions scribbled and sealed in an envelope, but too brutally honest to ever send."
Example: All Too Well (Red)
Glitter Gel Pen:
"It lives up to its name in every way. Frivolous, carefree, bouncy, syncopated perfectly to the beat. Glitter Gel Pen lyrics don’t care if you don’t take them seriously because they don’t take themselves seriously. Glitter Gel Pen lyrics are the drunk girl at the party who tells you that you look like an angel in the bathroom. It’s what we need every once in a while in these fraught times in which we live."
Example: Shake It Off (1989)
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I’ve never understood the hate for Bad Blood. I think it’s an enjoyable song musically. Is it the lyrics? I’ve never paid attention to them.
It's actually the vocal melody of the chorus that really irks me. I just can't stand it. Anthony Vincent of Ten Second Songs, the guy who does the songs in 20 styles videos did a cover in the style of Disturbed that made it tolerable. It was more funny than anything because he nailed Disturbed's style perfectly.
https://youtu.be/AxBTwMYkCBI
But yeah, that chorus. I can't remember how the rest of the song goes because I make my wife skip it every time it comes on. Nails on a chalk board, man.
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Also, it looks like track 3 is called Anti-Hero, and Taylor said this about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2t1cvSdgDA
Her clothing is so 70s.
Can't be a coincidence, uh? she clearly has in mind a certain visual style for the album that possibily is gonna match the music as well.
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We can all make predictions till we're blue in the face, but no one really knows anything.
The only thing I know for sure is I'll be subjected to this album an obscene amount of times. My only hope is it's tolerable like the last two.
Tolerable? the rest of her discography is tolerable, compared to the magnificence and brilliance of Folklore and Evermore.
If you remove Shake it Off and the horrendous Bad Blood, 1989 is better than Folklore and Evermore combined. Opinions are fun.
Blank Space is the worst.
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Also, it looks like track 3 is called Anti-Hero, and Taylor said this about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2t1cvSdgDA
Her clothing is so 70s.
Can't be a coincidence, uh? she clearly has in mind a certain visual style for the album that possibily is gonna match the music as well.
Agreed.
Blank Space is the worst.
I like the satirical lyrics, but I got bored with the song pretty quickly. I almost always skip it now.
Sadly, I suspect that song will be one of a few (Love Story and Shake It Off the others) that she probably plays every night for the duration of her touring career (with maybe each getting a tour off at some point).
I suspect a tour announcement for 2023 is coming soon, and with it likely to center around the Midnights album, I doubt we will get much from the prior three records that she never got to tour. I could see her keeping a couple spots open a night where she rotates songs from Folklore and Evermore, to try and play as many as possible, similar to how on the Rep tour she did a spot a night where she played a different older song by herself on the acoustic, but I don't see those albums being a featured part of the Midnights tour.
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We can all make predictions till we're blue in the face, but no one really knows anything.
The only thing I know for sure is I'll be subjected to this album an obscene amount of times. My only hope is it's tolerable like the last two.
Tolerable? the rest of her discography is tolerable, compared to the magnificence and brilliance of Folklore and Evermore.
If you remove Shake it Off and the horrendous Bad Blood, 1989 is better than Folklore and Evermore combined. Opinions are fun.
Blank Space is the worst.
It's definitely overplayed.
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I suspect a tour announcement for 2023 is coming soon, and with it likely to center around the Midnights album, I doubt we will get much from the prior three records that she never got to tour. I could see her keeping a couple spots open a night where she rotates songs from Folklore and Evermore, to try and play as many as possible, similar to how on the Rep tour she did a spot a night where she played a different older song by herself on the acoustic, but I don't see those albums being a featured part of the Midnights tour.
Well, one can dream. If Opeth can go from black metal to progressive rock, why can't Taylor, who already jumped from country to pop, make another jump and go full folk / rock / americana? ;D
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Blank Space is the worst.
I like the satirical lyrics, but I got bored with the song pretty quickly. I almost always skip it now.
Bloody hell, I love that track.
And I actually prefer Fearless, Red, 1989, Reputation and Lover to Folklore and Evermore. I've got enough music like the latter two albums in my collection although they're both perfectly fine albums. To me, they're just less interesting musically. And I'm not really a fan of the snobbery I'm seeing from some people who are now interested in Swift only because of the last two albums.
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I'm just posting here to say this is the first time I saw "Taylor Swift" as a thread topic here, and without seeing who started it, I said to myself, "this has GOT to be Stads." BOOM, I was right. :lol
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And I actually prefer Fearless, Red, 1989, Reputation and Lover to Folklore and Evermore. I've got enough music like the latter two albums in my collection although they're both perfectly fine albums. To me, they're just less interesting musically. And I'm not really a fan of the snobbery I'm seeing from some people who are now interested in Swift only because of the last two albums.
Am I guilty of snobbery because I got into her thanks to Folklore and Evermore? I'd like to see that comment unpacked a little. :)
I think it is important to remember that not everyone gets to the same destination at the same time or using the same path.
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Where did I say that? :lol
I'm referring to those in the wider world trashing her earlier work on the basis that they perceive the last two albums to be acceptably cool. Which is, of course, slightly ironic given that line in We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together.
You, Kev, you've skipped the entire fucking thing and become an uberfan :hat
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Eh, not my fault that I don't like, save the occasional song here and there, country and commercial pop music.
Just like it's not my fault that I don't like screaming vocals in metalcore, which means I totally don't care for Avenged Sevenfold's early albums and dig them only from their clean voice phase. I would give also Opeth's example, I like more prog rock than black metal with harsh vocals, but I never really liked Opeth so it's a moot point :lol
I'm not berating Taylor Swift, or consider her inferior, for not doing music I personally like, it's just not for me and she happened to make two albums that I can like. I didn't even bother to listen to Lady Gaga's latest album 'cause it's very commercial and disco-ish (at least that's what I gathered), it doesn't take from the enjoyment I have for many of the songs of the previous album Joanna which had more mellow stuff, nor it means that Lady Gaga should please me and go full rock. But boy I wish she did......
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Yeah, I agree with MirrorMask. I totally get why someone who is more of a rock fan might only like the last two albums. I am always a sucker for a good pop song, but I don't really seek it out, and most country music makes me want to hurl, so when I got into some of her songs from Folklore and Evermore, I figured that would be that and that her earlier stuff would still be persona non grata to me. My posts from early in this thread are an indication of my unexpected journey through her discography. I never expected to like so much music from her entire catalogue, yet here we are.
I will admit to being an uberfan now, but not a Swiftie, largely because I think the latter term sounds stupid. :lol :lol
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But you two are making a distinction that I love, and that most people DON'T make. I don't know about you both, but I don't "pick and choose" what I like or don't like. I listen, and if it grabs me, I like it, if it doesn't, I don't. There's no RATIONAL reason for that sometimes. I can't tell you why the Mangini-era DT doesn't grab my nut sack the way the Portnoy-era did; it's not like Mahgini is at fault or that he sucks or anything like that. It's all ME.
I think there's this predilection to equate "what I like" with "what is good" and that's the fail. I LOVE country music; well, some of it. Listening to Waylon Jennings sing and play guitar is like a warm bath for me. I can do without the nü-country, but that doesn't mean that those artists SUCK, it just means I don't connect to it.
I think the same thing with Taylor Swift; some things I like more than others (I think 1989 is this generations Thriller, frankly) but I think when people look back, her catalogue will be regarded as mostly solid from top to bottom, even if it is somewhat eclectic in how it all fits together.
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But you two are making a distinction that I love, and that most people DON'T make. I don't know about you both, but I don't "pick and choose" what I like or don't like. I listen, and if it grabs me, I like it, if it doesn't, I don't. There's no RATIONAL reason for that sometimes. I can't tell you why the Mangini-era DT doesn't grab my nut sack the way the Portnoy-era did; it's not like Mahgini is at fault or that he sucks or anything like that. It's all ME.
I think there's this predilection to equate "what I like" with "what is good" and that's the fail. I LOVE country music; well, some of it. Listening to Waylon Jennings sing and play guitar is like a warm bath for me. I can do without the nü-country, but that doesn't mean that those artists SUCK, it just means I don't connect to it.
I think the same thing with Taylor Swift; some things I like more than others (I think 1989 is this generations Thriller, frankly) but I think when people look back, her catalogue will be regarded as mostly solid from top to bottom, even if it is somewhat eclectic in how it all fits together.
I see what you did there? :P
But, yeah, I am the same way. If I listen to something and I like it, great. If not, oh well. Now, I, like others, am more likely to like certain types of music than other types - for example, the odds of me liking a prog rock album are 1,000,000 times more likely than me liking a hip hop album - but it doesn't always pan out that way. Based on my overall likes, it may seem odd to some that I like Taylor Swift and am generally pretty ambivalent about Marillion outside of a handful of songs, but I can only react the way my ears tell me when it comes to music. I always say, if I like something a lot, it will find its way into my CD player (or the 2022 equivalent), and Taylor Swift has found her way in more than any other artist since the start of 2021. That was not part of some master plan, but my usual routine of putting on what my ears want to hear.
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That's the beauty of music in the end, that there are no rules, only what your gut feeling tells you when I listen to a song. I too have my "certainties" in music, but they're not set in stone. I don't really like growls, but I like the occasional song with growls, I can tolerate Eluveitie and Haggard for example. And I've long past grown beyond power metal, the genre that was my favorite when I started out, I don't really listen to power metal anymore except for the giants of the genre like Helloween and Blind Guardian, and yet I like Beast in Black which are cheesy as fvck.... you'd reckon that if I'd like again a new power metal band they'd have some substance, uh? no, I love the bastard child of Abba and Judas Priest with ultra cheesy songs and a cheesy attitude :lol
About Taylor Swift, I guess she had an easy win with me. I like that kind of storytelling, almost folkish vibe, so folklore and evermore were in my ballpark. Any artist who would have come up with those albums would have sparkled my interest. Lady Gaga's own version of folklore would have won my interest (now I wonder what a minimalistic album from her would sound like, probably stuff like Joanna - A Million Reasons, Shallow, etc....). So the point for me it's not "oh gosh, how on earth Taylor Swift did an album I like"... I like that kind of stuff, it just happened to come from someone previously known only for country and pop (and from whom I couldn't even name a single song. To this day I still haven't figured out what's her trademark song, the song everyone knows and that she's bound to play at each and every single concert.... what's Taylor's Paparazzi or Bad Romance?)
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To this day I still haven't figured out what's her trademark song, the song everyone knows and that she's bound to play at each and every single concert.... what's Taylor's Paparazzi or Bad Romance?)
Probably either Love Story or Shake It Off. Love Story seems to be the song everyone knows, as a couple friends I have mentioned by sudden Taylor fandom to in the last 22 months mentioned that song as one they knew (they are not really fans, but they know that song), and the Shake It Off video is now in the top 20 all-time most viewed on YT, so that is massive as well. On the modern music station we have going at work pretty often, Love Story plays all the time.
Interestingly, of the two 2020 albums, the one song that gets played all the time is from Evermore, not Folklore, and that is Willow.
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I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums. I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period ;D). I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).
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That's the beauty of music in the end, that there are no rules, only what your gut feeling tells you when I listen to a song. I too have my "certainties" in music, but they're not set in stone. I don't really like growls, but I like the occasional song with growls, I can tolerate Eluveitie and Haggard for example. And I've long past grown beyond power metal, the genre that was my favorite when I started out, I don't really listen to power metal anymore except for the giants of the genre like Helloween and Blind Guardian, and yet I like Beast in Black which are cheesy as fvck.... you'd reckon that if I'd like again a new power metal band they'd have some substance, uh? no, I love the bastard child of Abba and Judas Priest with ultra cheesy songs and a cheesy attitude :lol
About Taylor Swift, I guess she had an easy win with me. I like that kind of storytelling, almost folkish vibe, so folklore and evermore were in my ballpark. Any artist who would have come up with those albums would have sparkled my interest. Lady Gaga's own version of folklore would have won my interest (now I wonder what a minimalistic album from her would sound like, probably stuff like Joanna - A Million Reasons, Shallow, etc....). So the point for me it's not "oh gosh, how on earth Taylor Swift did an album I like"... I like that kind of stuff, it just happened to come from someone previously known only for country and pop (and from whom I couldn't even name a single song. To this day I still haven't figured out what's her trademark song, the song everyone knows and that she's bound to play at each and every single concert.... what's Taylor's Paparazzi or Bad Romance?)
If Lady Gaga put out her "folklore", I'd be there in a HEARTBEAT. I love her, I think she's so talented; I just don't connect with the general vibe of her work so far. But her solo performance on Howard Stern of "The Edge Of Glory" almost made me drive off the road (I was on my way from Philly to Erie when I first heard it; that's how much it impacted me).
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I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums. I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period ;D). I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).
I'm sorry; there's a typo in your post. Can you fix it, please? :) :) :):):) :)
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I just wish Taylor would go back to her classic sound that she had on Red. I got into maybe one song from 1989 and reputation and then didn’t find anything of worth in Liver, Folklore or Evermore. I miss the Fearless days.
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I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums. I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period ;D). I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).
I'm sorry; there's a typo in your post. Can you fix it, please? :) :) :):):) :)
OK your freaking me out! It was Zayn Malik we saw, I got them mixed up - but you couldn't know that unless you are my Niece - is that you Kim? ???
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I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums. I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period ;D). I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).
I'm sorry; there's a typo in your post. Can you fix it, please? :) :) :):):) :)
OK your freaking me out! It was Zayn Malik we saw, I got them mixed up - but you couldn't know that unless you are my Niece - is that you Kim? ???
HAHAHAHAHA, no. I saw Harry Styles at MSG, and he was REALLY good. He's the one guy from One Direction that might actually be able to sustain a career on his own. I'm not a fan of Zayn, either in the group or out.
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Harry Styles' first album, not so bad. His second, boring as shit.
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If Lady Gaga put out her "folklore", I'd be there in a HEARTBEAT. I love her, I think she's so talented; I just don't connect with the general vibe of her work so far. But her solo performance on Howard Stern of "The Edge Of Glory" almost made me drive off the road (I was on my way from Philly to Erie when I first heard it; that's how much it impacted me).
So much this. She's incredibly talented but only seems to want to make dance floor albums, but then goes out of her way to play and sing in a stripped down way in live shows. I don't get it but so can't wait for her to write a real classic rock/pop album from the heart. It's got to happen, surely, just a case of when.
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I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums. I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period ;D). I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).
Sidebar: my younger brother is a big fan of The National, and they were in town recently, but when I suggested going, he was like, "Eh, great studio band, but they are boring live," so it was a no-go. I have Trouble Will Find Me, which I liked; I need to circle back to that and give it more listens.
And while I know you meant no harm by it, I reject the premise that Taylor Swift is teen pop. You don't and stay this big for this long by appealing only to teenagers wanting pop music. Hell, I am 49 now. :eek :eek :lol :lol
I just wish Taylor would go back to her classic sound that she had on Red. I got into maybe one song from 1989 and reputation and then didn’t find anything of worth in Liver, Folklore or Evermore. I miss the Fearless days.
Red is terrific for sure, but I am glad she does all of this genre hopping. I doubt I'd be such a fan if all her album were stylistically similar. Most of my favorite bands/artists are ones where I can binge on them for weeks while focusing on just one era or style to where I don't even touch a large percentage of their catalogue during that binge.
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Did she finish already her announcements or someone just leaked the full tracklist? Wikipedia has it.
1. "Lavender Haze"
2. "Maroon"
3. "Anti-Hero"
4. "Snow on the Beach" (featuring Lana Del Rey)
5. "You're on Your Own, Kid"
6. "Midnight Rain"
7. "Question...?"
8. "Vigilante Shit"
9. "Bejeweled"
10. "Labyrinth"
11. "Karma"
12. "Sweet Nothing"
13. "Mastermind"
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I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums. I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period ;D). I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).
Sidebar: my younger brother is a big fan of The National, and they were in town recently, but when I suggested going, he was like, "Eh, great studio band, but they are boring live," so it was a no-go. I have Trouble Will Find Me, which I liked; I need to circle back to that and give it more listens.
And while I know you meant no harm by it, I reject the premise that Taylor Swift is teen pop. You don't and stay this big for this long by appealing only to teenagers wanting pop music. Hell, I am 49 now. :eek :eek :lol :lol
I just wish Taylor would go back to her classic sound that she had on Red. I got into maybe one song from 1989 and reputation and then didn’t find anything of worth in Liver, Folklore or Evermore. I miss the Fearless days.
Red is terrific for sure, but I am glad she does all of this genre hopping. I doubt I'd be such a fan if all her album were stylistically similar. Most of my favorite bands/artists are ones where I can binge on them for weeks while focusing on just one era or style to where I don't even touch a large percentage of their catalogue during that binge.
Yeah The National are pretty bland live, I agreed on that. Also Berninger's voice doesn't seem to be able to last more than a handful of songs!
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Did she finish already her announcements or someone just leaked the full tracklist? Wikipedia has it.
1. "Lavender Haze"
2. "Maroon"
3. "Anti-Hero"
4. "Snow on the Beach" (featuring Lana Del Rey)
5. "You're on Your Own, Kid"
6. "Midnight Rain"
7. "Question...?"
8. "Vigilante Shit"
9. "Bejeweled"
10. "Labyrinth"
11. "Karma"
12. "Sweet Nothing"
13. "Mastermind"
Yep, looks like she ran through the rest of them early this morning.
Love seeing a song with Lana Del Rey, of whom I am slowly becoming more of a fan. :hat :hat
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We have to head to her own thread then :D
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I really can't stand 95% of Lana Del Rey. She sounds drunk, disinterested and bored.
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I really can't stand 95% of Lana Del Rey. She sounds drunk, disinterested and bored.
Funny, as I kind of know what you mean. She has that sound of someone trying to get through the last few songs at a gig after having had a few too many during a break, but I think her style works given the laid back and dreamy style of music she does. Definitely not for everyone, but I like most of what I have heard thus far.
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Interesting article.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/oct/14/taylor-swift-celebrate-album-release-midnights-pop-acclaim
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"Midnights will mark return to ‘pop’ for superstar who has found new kind of acclaim in recent years"
Oh, no.
I mean, I'm still gonna listen to it with an open mind, but if I won't like it, well, I won't like it. To make another example in the "pop star that surprisingly is interesting to metalheads" camp, I still respect Lady Gaga as an artist, that doesn't mean I have to force myself to listen to her dance-ish and disco-ish songs if I don't like the genre.
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Conversely, I did a little whoop of delight. But we'll see.
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I would take that comment with a grain of salt, as it sounds like the writer of the article hasn't actually heard the album, hence the "whatever its sound..." comment, or there is always the possibility she has heard it, but is not allowed to speak of its specifics prior to its release. I could see Taylor having put that in a contract with anyone in the media fortunate enough to have gotten a chance to hear it before 10/21. It being pop again could simply be it having hooks that are far more immediate than the ones on Folklore and Evermore.
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anybody staying up to listen to the new album?
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yes, i'm staying up past 9 PM as i always do to listen to the album :neverusethis:
west coast life has its benefits
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The current RYM rating has me worried…
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The current RYM rating has me worried…
Why? Any rating, good or bad, based off a leak that happened in the past day or two is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction.
anybody staying up to listen to the new album?
Nope. I need my sleep. I'll hear it mañana.
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A little disappointing to hear Al Michaels insinuate that only girls listen to Taylor Swift, but the teaser trailer during the football game tonight was nice. Looks and sounds like she is going back to the 1989/Reputation sound and visuals, and I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up making a video for every song on the new album.
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Al probably didn't want to say only girls and old men listen to Taylor :lol
I actually thought he said something about her being extremely popular among girls, not that only girls listen to her.
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Al to Kirk Herbstreit (immediately after the trailer ended):
"You have four sons. If you had a daughter, she'd be over the moon right now."
The insinuation is clear. And I am a big Al Michaels fan. The running narrative that only girls listen to Taylor Swift is so just old and tired.
But hey, the new album will be here soon! :tup :tup
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Yeah, fair enough sorry wasn't listening that closely. I also really like Al.
Yes, the new album is nearly here, will be looking forward to checking it out.
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This is a unique spot for me as a music fan as the late 80s was probably the last time I was a fan of an artist in their prime who was this popular. I am so used to being a fan of artists that usually fly under the radar a bit, or a lot, to where looking forward to an album that is getting talked about everywhere almost seems strange. :lol :lol
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From Wikipedia:
Genre: Synthpop - electropop - indie pop - downtempo pop
My hopes are crushed.
Well, I'll still listen to it out of curiosity but if I won't like it, I won't like it.
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I listened to the Lana song as I'm a huge fan of hers (and like the last two Swift albums), found it pretty underwhelming - barely any Lana on it. I'll give the rest of the album a spin sometime, but I'm not expecting to enjoy it much as I don't like much of her work outside Folk/Ever (which I think is more about Dessner's influence for me).
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Many listens to come, but the video for Anti-Hero is now out. Pretty sure that chorus is going to be stuck in my head all day now. :lol :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1kbLwvqugk
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One more track to go but very good first impressions. :tup Bit more fleshed out than the last two.
Edit: On the last track now. Great. Made me smile, as several tracks did. She's a really, really consistent writer.
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From Wikipedia:
Genre: Synthpop - electropop - indie pop - downtempo pop
My hopes are crushed.
Well, I'll still listen to it out of curiosity but if I won't like it, I won't like it.
I'm not sure I would put too much faith in that kind of thing. Labels to me are always suspect.
Saw the teaser/trailer for the videos on Amazon Prime last night during the game. There are a couple scenes of her with dark hair apparently in a t-shirt and shorts. Just going to leave that there for what it's worth. :)
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From Wikipedia:
Genre: Synthpop - electropop - indie pop - downtempo pop
My hopes are crushed.
Well, I'll still listen to it out of curiosity but if I won't like it, I won't like it.
I'm not sure I would put too much faith in that kind of thing. Labels to me are always suspect.
Saw the teaser/trailer for the videos on Amazon Prime last night during the game. There are a couple scenes of her with dark hair apparently in a t-shirt and shorts. Just going to leave that there for what it's worth. :)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ffl4_0BaMAUHTLe?format=jpg&name=small)
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From Wikipedia:
Genre: Synthpop - electropop - indie pop - downtempo pop
My hopes are crushed.
Well, I'll still listen to it out of curiosity but if I won't like it, I won't like it.
To be fair the Genre tag would just be "Jack Antanoff" which describes most her work other than Folklore/Evermore.
This is mostly in the vein of Lover from what I heard thus far, not bad but nothing really remarkable and seems a bit like a retrogression considering the trajectory she seemed to be on.
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Saw the video for the new song.
It's cool, it's catchy, and it's very ironic, kudos to Taylor for not taking herself so seriously, and also the comedy sketch at the funeral was fun :lol
However, all I could think about hearing the song was "damn, if this had the folklore / evermore arrangement, it would be awesome". I mean, the song is still ok but I guess I'll just have to be happy that I got two awesome albums from an artist I didn't even like to begin with, rather than stubbornly hope she would continue in that vein :P
Anyway, if all the album is like this, I can take it, it's just the full on dance / electronic stuff I wouldn't be able to get on board with.
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From Wikipedia:
Genre: Synthpop - electropop - indie pop - downtempo pop
My hopes are crushed.
Well, I'll still listen to it out of curiosity but if I won't like it, I won't like it.
To be fair the Genre tag would just be "Jack Antanoff" which describes most her work other than Folklore/Evermore.
This is mostly in the vein of Lover from what I heard thus far, not bad but nothing really remarkable and seems a bit like a retrogression considering the trajectory she seemed to be on.
Yeah. I do like that kinda stuff just as much as I like her sad indie folk, but a) some of that stuff I like was already made in 2013 - not just by Taylor either - and this is 2022 b) Lover as a body of work is kinda uneven, and this is too.
On the other hand, as a woman around Taylor's age who also has some mental health stuff happening, Anti-Hero was so on point :blush :hefdaddy
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I think the concept of the record is meant to be about things that have kept her up nights over the years. Like the rest of us, she has fears and anxieties, and she put them all out there again for us on this record.
I think it is worth noting again that Jack Antanoff was not a producer until she gave him a shot, so the idea that her music sounds like him per se is way off. I never think any Taylor Swift album or song sounds like anything but what she wants it to sound like.
I saw a few reviews that said that Midnights is not that dissimilar from Folklore and Evermore, and I think I agree. It is the same type of writing, but the cosmetics of it make it seem really different, as this in awash in synths and programmed drums instead of acoustic guitars and clean electric guitars. Traditional instruments (guitar, bass, piano, real drums) are largely MIA on the proper album. And the melodies are this one are slow growers and not immediate, like most of the songs on the two 2020 albums. Personally, I wish there would have been more of a balance, but it feels like an album in which you can immerse yourself for sure. The bonus songs definitely feel like their own entity and more traditional rather than a part of the 13-song running order of the album.
Of the bonus songs, The Great War is a favorite for me already. That is probably one of my favorite from the entire project thus far.
Not really feeling Lavender Haze or Vigilante Shit from the proper album thus far, but Anti-Hero, Mastermind and Karma stand out for me early on.
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From Wikipedia:
Genre: Synthpop - electropop - indie pop - downtempo pop
My hopes are crushed.
Well, I'll still listen to it out of curiosity but if I won't like it, I won't like it.
To be fair the Genre tag would just be "Jack Antanoff" which describes most her work other than Folklore/Evermore.
This is mostly in the vein of Lover from what I heard thus far, not bad but nothing really remarkable and seems a bit like a retrogression considering the trajectory she seemed to be on.
Yeah. I do like that kinda stuff just as much as I like her sad indie folk, but a) some of that stuff I like was already made in 2013 - not just by Taylor either - and this is 2022 b) Lover as a body of work is kinda uneven, and this is too.
On the other hand, as a woman around Taylor's age who also has some mental health stuff happening, Anti-Hero was so on point :blush :hefdaddy
Curious as to what you'd think of Soccer Mommy, if you heard of her.
Her albums "Color Theory" and "Sometimes, Forever" are very similar to what I like about Taylor, but I just like her much more. "Color Theory" especially has a deep pervading mental health theme.
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I think it is worth noting again that Jack Antanoff was not a producer until she gave him a shot, so the idea that her music sounds like him per se is way off. I never think any Taylor Swift album or song sounds like anything but what she wants it to sound like.
On this note I will agree and go further to say that Antanoff's stuff with Taylor is a lot better than what he's done with other similar artists. Can't stand the new Lorde album, and never really "got" LDR.
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I have only heard a few Lorde songs, thus I cannot comment on her much, but I love Norman F'ing Rockwell by LDR, so there is that.
I think Antanoff loves going overboard with the vocal effects and programmed stuff, but also has no problem bringing it down. Heck, he produced something as mellow as New Year's Day as well as a lot of the Folklore/Evermore songs, so I think his diversity when it comes to producing is key. I do think it's fair to say that he likely brings out Taylor's worst tendencies, ala the overproduced stuff, but you gotta take the good with the bad. Despite this new album being loaded with effects and vocal overdubs, that stupid vocoder effect seems pretty absent (I cannot think of any instances with it off the top of my head), which alone is a wonderful thing. I like Reputation a lot now despite the overbearing presence at times of that damn vocoder effect.
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I think I've heard all of the new album. I think my wife had it on repeat while I was sleeping. Nothing stood out as Reputation bad, but nothing really stood out. There's a song towards the end that does this progressively loud twang noise like every other stanza which I don't feel was a wise choice. I guess I'll find out over the next two years if anything else grows on me, willingly or otherwise
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I saw a few reviews that said that Midnights is not that dissimilar from Folklore and Evermore, and I think I agree. It is the same type of writing, but the cosmetics of it make it seem really different, as this in awash in synths and programmed drums instead of acoustic guitars and clean electric guitars.
That's the impression I got from the single and from some random songs I sampled on YouTube. The hooks and the clever lyrics are still there, it's the dressing up that is not to my liking. Uh well, I'll try and give it a full listen in one go, to take in the album as a whole, but if it's all like what I've heard, I'd probably best take in few songs at a time....
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I think it is worth noting again that Jack Antanoff was not a producer until she gave him a shot, so the idea that her music sounds like him per se is way off. I never think any Taylor Swift album or song sounds like anything but what she wants it to sound like.
On this note I will agree and go further to say that Antanoff's stuff with Taylor is a lot better than what he's done with other similar artists. Can't stand the new Lorde album, and never really "got" LDR.
Honestly I find his production to be just the worst thing. That twitter video that's trending of the guy predicting which songs he produced on the album is hilarious because it just feels so accurate. The only songs that are even remotely tolerable are the ones he had no involvement with lol.
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I saw a few reviews that said that Midnights is not that dissimilar from Folklore and Evermore, and I think I agree. It is the same type of writing, but the cosmetics of it make it seem really different, as this in awash in synths and programmed drums instead of acoustic guitars and clean electric guitars.
That's the impression I got from the single and from some random songs I sampled on YouTube. The hooks and the clever lyrics are still there, it's the dressing up that is not to my liking. Uh well, I'll try and give it a full listen in one go, to take in the album as a whole, but if it's all like what I've heard, I'd probably best take in few songs at a time....
It sounds like a cliche, but I think it's best listened to from start to finish in one sitting, rather than in pieces. I thought the production was a bit much at first as well, but once I gave it a few listens, it really sucks you into a specific vibe that is really nice. It's a pretty chill album overall, to be honest.
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Posted a quick comment in the What are you listening thread...the first (admittedly cursory) listen didn't leave me too impressed, but as I'm giving this more time, the songs are starting to find their way in my brain ;) Anti-Hero and Snow on the Beach are highlights for now...
Haven't listened to the extra songs in the "3am edition" yet.
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I think it is worth noting again that Jack Antanoff was not a producer until she gave him a shot, so the idea that her music sounds like him per se is way off. I never think any Taylor Swift album or song sounds like anything but what she wants it to sound like.
Yeah, I agree, to be frank I use "Jack Antonoff" as a shorthand for "the two headed beast that is Jack Antonoff and Taylor Swift amplifying a certain tendency in each other" :lol for good or bad he's just been there and will continue to be there, and Taylor talked a bit about how she thinks of this as an album they really did as a duo. And you can really tell they did.
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Still think it's really solid and I'm enjoying it on day 2.
The production is sometimes not to my taste also. It sometimes paints a modestly "urban" vibe that doesn't really add anything or fit her, imo. This might be an expectation that it's needed to be really successful in today's pop world. Dunno. Sounds a tad forced to my ears, tho. The songs would be better served by a more traditional or 80s synthy backing, imo.
In some songs, I feel like she's stretching to write about anything significant AND relatable that really deserves the earnest treatment it's getting. I get that's her type of songwriting but she could do much more with her great writing gift.
These are not meant to be big negative slams, but observations. Good record.
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I've given the album 3/4 listens and I don't think this one is for me. I do really like Anti-Hero, Snow on the Beach and Vigilante Shit but a few of the other tracks I can't really get into. As always there are some great lyrics and storytelling but many of the musical ideas sound a bit flat.
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Okay, so I deliberately didn't read any comments here about the new album before listening (and I still haven't read any as I type this). Just listened. First thought is that it has the production of Reputation of mixed with the songwriting of Folklore and Evermore. And I'm okay with that, actually. It's sonically more interesting than both the latter two and I think that's what I was looking for. Sure, I love Taylor's sugary pop and I'm sure there'll be a place for that again at some point further down the road.
Edit: also, only one listen on Qobuz with headphones but this album is nowhere near as loud as the random song that succeeded it (10 Things I Hate About You by Leah Kate, apparently).
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I like how the album as a whole has this dreamy thing going on. While not the kind of (songs at) "Midnights" album I was expecting, it still feels very much like a late night album, just not in the way I was expecting. And she was obviously going for something different, as the big pop hooks are mostly MIA here. And if she really wanted them, I am sure Max Martin and Shellbeck are both just a phone call away to come in and do their thing and "hook" them up, but that is not what she was going for on this record. My appreciation for her strictly as an artist just continues to increase. I get that the cosmetics here are the opposite of what many of her fans who tilt more towards rock than pop wanted, especially after Folklore and Evermore, but I think if you are a fan of her in general, rather than fans of specific albums (the latter being that that you will chuck this quickly as one of her albums that is not for you), living with this one a bit and letting it all sink in will be rewarding. Just my two cents.
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(first listen I wasn't too impressed - but with the second it's starting to grow. Is it me, though, or the lyrics are not generally among her best...?)
To bring this over from the "what are you listening to?" thread, I am still trying wrap my head around the lyrics, but there are many gems on here.
I think a few of the curse words are a bit gratuitous (I dislike her use of the word "dickhead" so much in Question...? that I got the clean version and inserted that into my running order of the album), but overall she is on top of her lyrical game as usual. "I regret you all the time" in Would've, Could've, Should've is likely to hold up as one of her most devastating singular lines ever.
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One more thing: for now, Lavender Haze and Vigilante Shit are largely falling flat for me so far. The latter seems to be her mainly sing-talking some revenge stuff over one of the most uninteresting rhythms on the album. Fortunately, the middle finger songs on this album seem to be a small number.
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Does the edited version have a different line or do they still just silence the word? Also think her swearing is kinda cringy. That's how I feel about swearing in pop music in general though. It never sounds genuine.
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Listening now for the second time. What struck me last night, and again now, is how much it does feel like, well, midnight music. Very well-named album.
I'm appreciative of its shorter length since even her best albums had a tendency to be slightly too long. Edit: I've just found out there's another edition with a few more tracks which it'd take it to 69 minutes. Oops.
Additional edit: Vigilante Shit is a standout for me on second listen.
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Does the edited version have a different line or do they still just silence the word? Also think her swearing is kinda cringy. That's how I feel about swearing in pop music in general though. It never sounds genuine.
No, they have different lyrics. The "dickhead guy" line in Question...? is "meathead guy" in the clean version, and the "fucking politics and gender roles" is "caught in politics and gender roles" in the same song.
Listening now for the second time. What struck me last night, and again now, is how much it does feel like, well, midnight music. Very well-named album.
I'm appreciative of its shorter length since even her best albums had a tendency to be slightly too long. Edit: I've just found out there's another edition with a few more tracks which it'd take it to 69 minutes. Oops.
Additional edit: Vigilante Shit is a standout for me on second listen.
That's the deluxe edition with the bonus 7 tracks, which feels essential, as some of those are the best on the entire record.
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Heard it all. The impression remains, the folklore / evermore songwriting and clever lyrics with a lot of poppish make up.
The songs I enjoyed the most are Maroon, Anti-Hero, Vigilante Shit and Mastermind. From the bonus tracks, Bigger than the Whole Sky and Woulda Coulda Shoulda (Hello Flying Colors crossover :D) are very nice as well.
Lavender Haze and Bejeweled seem to be the most vapid and lalala ones, even though the latter has a nice bridge. I expected more from the Lana Del Rey song, she's barely there.
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Heard it all. The impression remains, the folklore / evermore songwriting and clever lyrics with a lot of poppish make up.
The songs I enjoyed the most are Maroon, Anti-Hero, Vigilante Shit and Mastermind. From the bonus tracks, Bigger than the Whole Sky and Woulda Coulda Shoulda (Hello Flying Colors crossover :D) are very nice as well.
Lavender Haze and Bejeweled seem to be the most vapid and lalala ones, even though the latter has a nice bridge. I expected more from the Lana Del Rey song, she's barely there.
She's actually there a lot. It feels at first like she's not really there since she didn't get her own verse, but her voice is all over that song. The way her voice meshes with Taylor's lower register is glorious.
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Guess I'll have to hear it better or with headphones then!
One of the bonus tracks, Would've Could've Should've, has an absolutely stellar bridge, very raw and emotional:
If clarity's in death, then why won't this die?
Years of tearing down our banners, you and I
Living for the thrill of hitting you where it hurts
Give me back my girlhood, it was mine first
I know I sound like a broken record but I wonder how passionate and impactful it would sound with a grand piano and maybe some strings.
On the other hand, I'd like a dark funky rock cover of Vigilante Shit, that song screams for a killer bass line, and some distorted guitars marking some of the lyrics :D
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I gave this a listen this morning.
I don't know. I didn't care for it that much. If anything, it feels like a regression from folklore and evermore, IMO. I mean, it's fine, but nowhere near as interesting for me as those albums were. To me, those felt like "Taylor Swift growing up" and this one feels like a step backwards.
Just my two cents.
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I gave it a spin with an open mind but it doesn't connect with me. Maybe with multiple spins it would but I'm not sure I want to invest the time.
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Guess I'll have to hear it better or with headphones then!
One of the bonus tracks, Would've Could've Should've, has an absolutely stellar bridge, very raw and emotional:
If clarity's in death, then why won't this die?
Years of tearing down our banners, you and I
Living for the thrill of hitting you where it hurts
Give me back my girlhood, it was mine first
I know I sound like a broken record but I wonder how passionate and impactful it would sound with a grand piano and maybe some strings.
On the other hand, I'd like a dark funky rock cover of Vigilante Shit, that song screams for a killer bass line, and some distorted guitars marking some of the lyrics :D
You want raw and emotional? Listen to Bigger Than the Whole Sky. That song is a gut punch if you are grieving the loss of anyone, whether it be a husband or wife, a parent or a child. As someone who lost his mother in February this year, it really hits home.
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Yeah, Bigger than the Whole Sky is surely among the best of the bunch. Weird that it's a bonus track.
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Nice appearance on The Tonight Show last night. Announcement of a tour could land at any time now.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ff4KiXHXEAEGDBb?format=jpg&name=small)
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Guess I'll have to hear it better or with headphones then!
One of the bonus tracks, Would've Could've Should've, has an absolutely stellar bridge, very raw and emotional:
If clarity's in death, then why won't this die?
Years of tearing down our banners, you and I
Living for the thrill of hitting you where it hurts
Give me back my girlhood, it was mine first
I know I sound like a broken record but I wonder how passionate and impactful it would sound with a grand piano and maybe some strings.
On the other hand, I'd like a dark funky rock cover of Vigilante Shit, that song screams for a killer bass line, and some distorted guitars marking some of the lyrics :D
You want raw and emotional? Listen to Bigger Than the Whole Sky. That song is a gut punch if you are grieving the loss of anyone, whether it be a husband or wife, a parent or a child. As someone who lost his mother in February this year, it really hits home.
Wonderful; now I have to listen to this. :) :) :) :) :)
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Guess I'll have to hear it better or with headphones then!
One of the bonus tracks, Would've Could've Should've, has an absolutely stellar bridge, very raw and emotional:
If clarity's in death, then why won't this die?
Years of tearing down our banners, you and I
Living for the thrill of hitting you where it hurts
Give me back my girlhood, it was mine first
I know I sound like a broken record but I wonder how passionate and impactful it would sound with a grand piano and maybe some strings.
On the other hand, I'd like a dark funky rock cover of Vigilante Shit, that song screams for a killer bass line, and some distorted guitars marking some of the lyrics :D
You want raw and emotional? Listen to Bigger Than the Whole Sky. That song is a gut punch if you are grieving the loss of anyone, whether it be a husband or wife, a parent or a child. As someone who lost his mother in February this year, it really hits home.
Wonderful; now I have to listen to this. :) :) :) :) :)
Please do and report back. :tup :tup
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Snow on the Beach and something like You're Gonna Go Far Kid (that's an Offspring song but similar title I think, can't be bothered to Google it at the moment) are alright. Vigilante Shit is... Not well. Sounds like it came from Reputation.
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As I said I like Vigilante Shit, but - leaving aside my dream of having it a full rocking song with distorted guitars marking some beats - I think it should have been more haunting and overwhelming with the rhytm and music growing stronger throughout the song.
It has the same style and same music pattern for the entire song, if it was a big crescendo with the music becoming bigger and more complex it would have helped the mood of the song.
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Been listening to this all week driving my daughter places. I’ve generally enjoyed it, might prefer it to 1989. I get a little worn out by the subject matter, but the lyrics are clever and I enjoy the general sound and production. I appreciate the 80s synth pop stylings. M
What’s funny is the one song that I really like, Sweet Nothing, is the one she wants to skip.
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I also listened to Carly Rae Jepsen's new album this week, and I feel that it does what this album is doing, but better. I mean, tastes and all, but that's just my two cents.
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I'm hooked with the song Karma. Great hooks, melodies, love the synth work and the delivery of the song is pretty much awesome.
I have to check Carly Rae, never heard of her.
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I have to check Carly Rae, never heard of her.
This is crazy!
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I have to check Carly Rae, never heard of her.
This is crazy!
LOL :lol
Is she really famous or something? Honestly, I haven't heard of her. What's THE song you would recommend to check her out? I'll be checking Hef's recommendation on her new album.
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I have to check Carly Rae, never heard of her.
This is crazy!
LOL :lol
Is she really famous or something? Honestly, I haven't heard of her. What's THE song you would recommend to check her out? I'll be checking Hef's recommendation on her new album.
I was just making a play on a line from her hit song (if she has more than this I'm unaware of them):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHx--ZtG_Ds
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I also listened to Carly Rae Jepsen's new album this week, and I feel that it does what this album is doing, but better. I mean, tastes and all, but that's just my two cents.
Also new to me but enjoying the few tracks I've heard so far following this comment. Thanks.
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I have to check Carly Rae, never heard of her.
This is crazy!
LOL :lol
Is she really famous or something? Honestly, I haven't heard of her. What's THE song you would recommend to check her out? I'll be checking Hef's recommendation on her new album.
If you've never heard Call Me Maybe before then you need to tell us which hole you're hiding in. It might be the key to our survival when the nukes go off.
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How is this for a great little surprise:
At the Bon Iver concert tonight in London, Taylor showed up out of nowhere and they did Exile (from Folklore). Aaron Dessner was there too of course. Nice little moment, as the song gets its first live performance the right way, with Taylor, Justin Vernon and Dessner all there to perform it.
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I wonder if that means she'll be on Graham Norton's chat show this week for promo...
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I wonder if that means she'll be on Graham Norton's chat show this week for promo...
Yep, she is on tomorrow. That was announced a few weeks ago that she'd be on his show on the 28th.
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Ah, cool. I'll watch that, then. :tup
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How is this for a great little surprise:
At the Bon Iver concert tonight in London, Taylor showed up out of nowhere and they did Exile (from Folklore). Aaron Dessner was there too of course. Nice little moment, as the song gets its first live performance the right way, with Taylor, Justin Vernon and Dessner all there to perform it.
That's cool.
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Two thoughts on the below picture...
1) A very nice touch in having the picture of her grandma, Marjorie, on the wall to the left of the shower. As we know, the song Marjorie on Evermore was about that very grandmother.
2) Look at how ginormous that step up is to get into the shower (and the step down with wet feet). Even for someone with super long legs like Taylor, that seems kinda dangerous.
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/FcNC0Qyv6jjHPmg1zPaFQA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTY0MA--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/people_218/b9e2047dd8b699a80e4c5b02f24ebd77)
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There's a picture on a wall, and a shower in the room? :D
I had the exact same set up in my first house....that shower/tub also had a 'grab bar' next to the nozzle, so not as dangerous as first appearances.
And we just replaced two sinks exactly the same as the one pictured there with vanities. That was the style of the 50s.......
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Picture?
Her outfit on the left is to what I was referring when I mentioned the video sneak peak on Amazon Prime Video.
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Just watched Cyril's review on youtube, and based on the song samples...yeah, I don't get it.
The Bigger Than The Whole Sky sample sounded interesting.
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With all due respect, Tim, given you are strictly a hard rock and metal guy, I wouldn't expect you to like any of her music, especially the material that is more pop-driven. You are literally the last person on this forum I would expect to like her music. :P And I really do mean that in the nicest way possible. :)
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Actually, the samples in Cyril's review didn't sound very poppy. I think Cyril even mentioned that it was different for her. I can enjoy a nice pop song. I was surprised to hear swear words in the lyrics, actually.
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I guess I meant pop-driven in the sense that many of the rhythm tracks on the record are programmed drums. It is definitely not that poppy of an album overall, more or less a mellow album awash in synths and programmed drums.
Do you have a link to the review?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMHAhNc_6co
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Actually, the samples in Cyril's review didn't sound very poppy. I think Cyril even mentioned that it was different for her. I can enjoy a nice pop song. I was surprised to hear swear words in the lyrics, actually.
Shes a big girl now, so she has to drop f bombs in every song. I'm not against swearing in music, but it sounds so forced when Taylor Swift and 99% of other pop singers do it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMHAhNc_6co
Thanks. I generally dislike reviews like that, as it is someone talking over the music 98% of the time and then letting a line or two play and then talking again, so it is literally impossible to get any feel for the music or the album, IMO. Not a criticism of the maker of the video, so much of that style of reviewing which is so prevalent. I think you'd be better off listening to a few of the songs on their own, all of which are on YouTube.
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If they play more than 3 seconds they get a copyright strike.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMHAhNc_6co
Thanks. I generally dislike reviews like that, as it is someone talking over the music 98% of the time and then letting a line or two play and then talking again, so it is literally impossible to get any feel for the music or the album, IMO. Not a criticism of the maker of the video, so much of that style of reviewing which is so prevalent. I think you'd be better off listening to a few of the songs on their own, all of which are on YouTube.
I wonder if the review has such short samples because it may get shut down due to copyright.
I'm not listening to the album. Cyril's videos show up in my feed because I'm subscribed, and I thought I'd spend the 5 minutes to watch the video.
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I wonder if the review has such short samples because it may get shut down due to copyright.
I'm not listening to the album. Cyril's videos show up in my feed because I'm subscribed, and I thought I'd spend the 5 minutes to watch the video.
I get it. I don't think you'd like much of it anyway. Hell, I wouldn't have thought I'd like her music as much as I do now, yet here we are.
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I'll let myself out now... :lol
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I'll let myself out now... :lol
(https://i.giphy.com/media/geuXiMq0MNqfAyxS7b/200w.webp)
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I read something the other day about Midnights demanding to be listened to on good headphones/earbuds because the production tricks, synthbass and other aspects are easier to hear. And I have to say there's some truth to that. It's a very good sounding album.
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Didn’t care for Midnights on first listen but now I really like it. Much better than Reputation and Lover imo (haven’t listened to her debut or Fearless yet).
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Watched the Graham Norton show with Taylor. She had a nice way about her, I thought.
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Actually, the samples in Cyril's review didn't sound very poppy. I think Cyril even mentioned that it was different for her. I can enjoy a nice pop song. I was surprised to hear swear words in the lyrics, actually.
Shes a big girl now, so she has to drop f bombs in every song. I'm not against swearing in music, but it sounds so forced when Taylor Swift and 99% of other pop singers do it.
I don't think it's forced. I have a daughter Taylor's age and she swears like a sailor with a twisted ankle. I think it's a bit generational.
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I read something the other day about Midnights demanding to be listened to on good headphones/earbuds because the production tricks, synthbass and other aspects are easier to hear. And I have to say there's some truth to that. It's a very good sounding album.
Yep, the deep bass sounds pretty incredible on a good stereo system.
Didn’t care for Midnights on first listen but now I really like it. Much better than Reputation and Lover imo (haven’t listened to her debut or Fearless yet).
:tup :tup
Watched the Graham Norton show with Taylor. She had a nice way about her, I thought.
Yep, she is a sweetheart in general. It feels like it is almost impossible to be a big fan of her music and also not be a big fan of her the person. Her personality is such a huge part of her music and her sound. I know I have said this before (probably numerous times :lol), but the connection she makes with fans is unlike anything I have ever seen out of another musician. It's unexplainable, and if you are not one of the converted, it can be puzzling, but if you feel it, it's just something that is there.
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I like quite a lot of her music that I've heard. Very solid writer. Very catchy tunes. I'm impressed but not in that fan bracket.
In context with other pop bands I dig, I probably wouldn't go to see her live. I don't love her music like I do Chvrches, for example, who are also modern and female fronted. And she's not close to a-ha or Keane for me, who are also in my straight-up melodic pop bucket. All three of those bands truly move me, if you know what I mean.
But I'm impressed with her, for sure.
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Taylor Swift has a larger body of work, but Chvrches doesn't have anything cringe inducing, and I enjoy their music way more.
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I don't think I am familiar with Chvrches, although they might be another one of those bands where I am like, "Oh yeah, I know that song," about a few.
That said, Taylor's overtly pop songs generally tend to not be the material I listen to the most, with a few exceptions. If she were strict pop, I doubt I'd be a big fan, but her variety is a big reason why her music is so appealing to me.
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It’s funny because the first time I heard Chvurches (it was in a Barnes and Noble) I thought “hey, this is a pretty cool Taylor Swift song.” I don’t think I would ever confuse them now, but they definitely struck me as similar at the time.
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Well, they have an album that has a couple of quite heavy Swift-isms on it, actually. It was their one album before last, and it didn't quite work me as an album. (Not because they were Taylor-influenced, just because it felt a little forced and unnatural) They're from Glasgow but had just moved to the US and were looking for some bigger success, I think.
Screen Violence (their last one) and Every Open Eye are my favourites. Anyhoo, I'll stop derailing this thread now. 🙂
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It's crazy how successful this album has been already.
She is the first artist to have the entire top 10 of the Billboard hot 100. That is nuts. Granted, that was impossible to pull off in the pre-streaming era, but it's still a staggering achievement considering no one else had done it.
Also, looks like a big announcement is coming on GMA tomorrow. I am guessing it will be the official tour announcement.
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https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/1587420273325838336?s=46&t=VkTYB95DfDi4a4dkAT3rQQ
I’m gonna try to hit to one of these shows, maybe philadelphia.
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I've listened to her new album twice now. It's really interesting switching from my usual styles of music - Dream Theater and the like - to a modern pop artist. There are some really fundamental differences in songwriting - not good or bad, just different. For example, in Swift's newest album, everything is concentrated on the lead vocal, and when the lyrics are done, the songs just end. There is really no such thing as an outro. :lol
Overall, I really enjoyed the new album. Anti-Hero and You're on Your Own, Kid are my favorites.
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Saw those dates earlier. No STL date, which is a bummer.
I had ruled out the idea of traveling, as I like the new album quite a bit, but it's not a "I have to travel to see this" album. However, with the tour being an eras tour, rather than a Midnights one, the likelihood of a set list covering all her eras seems likely, meaning this could be pretty special, so I am now considering the Nashville or KC shows.
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I like quite a lot of her music that I've heard. Very solid writer. Very catchy tunes. I'm impressed but not in that fan bracket.
In context with other pop bands I dig, I probably wouldn't go to see her live. I don't love her music like I do Chvrches, for example, who are also modern and female fronted. And she's not close to a-ha or Keane for me, who are also in my straight-up melodic pop bucket. All three of those bands truly move me, if you know what I mean.
But I'm impressed with her, for sure.
Keane; I love their first two records, and then I sort of trailed off... I just bought Cause and Effect.
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Wheeeee, people always like to hit LA last ehhh? The shows where tickets are going to be even more expensive than if it's in the middle of the tour. Two shows at SoFi Stadium. I'm sure the prices for nosebleeds is going to be $200.00 min. and someone is going to paid for those seats and it will sell out.
Funny thing that she was supposed to be the one to officially open SoFi Stadium in Inglewood back when the building was good to go in 2020, playing two shows, the first two events to officially happen in the stadium, but the obvious happened. Now it's going to be three years later from the original dates that she gets to play there.
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It's just amazing to me - in a positive way - that she's going to do two nights in a row, in a stadium, in Philly, Boston, New York and Chicago, bing bang boom.
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So what's the over/under on aftermarket tix? I'll put them at 1000...
Also, just so fucking happy for Taylor, she's been the epitome of grace and class throughout her career. It's especially ironic for this to be happening in the middle of Kanye's meltdown, talk about karma coming full circle.
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Tickets won't be cheap, that is for sure.
Notice that all of these dates are on the weekend, so her goal is obviously to hit one city a week, which does leave open the possibility of adding more shows in the same city if/when the ones announced already sell out quickly, which I am sure they will.
I like the idea of hitting the Nashville show since Phoebe Bridgers is the opener there, which likely means she'd come out and do Nothing New with Taylor.
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I like quite a lot of her music that I've heard. Very solid writer. Very catchy tunes. I'm impressed but not in that fan bracket.
In context with other pop bands I dig, I probably wouldn't go to see her live. I don't love her music like I do Chvrches, for example, who are also modern and female fronted. And she's not close to a-ha or Keane for me, who are also in my straight-up melodic pop bucket. All three of those bands truly move me, if you know what I mean.
But I'm impressed with her, for sure.
Keane; I love their first two records, and then I sort of trailed off... I just bought Cause and Effect.
Nice. Love that album. (Very sad, mind.) Someone at work gave me a signed CD of it that had somehow come their way. Strangeland is also fantastic, imo.
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About Midnights, I guess I'll come up eventually with my own custom tracklist.
Lavender Haze and Bejeweled will be gone, they're too annoyingly lalala for my tastes. Probably Karma will go as well, sorry to whoever said they dig the song :D
You're on your Own, Kid and Sweet Nothing have string and piano remixes - they will repace the originals.
From the bonus tracks, I'll definitively keep Would've Could've Should'Ve, Bigger than the Whole Sky and Dear Reader, probably The Great War as well.
At the moment I have a blank on Labyrinth, and the other bonus tracks I didn't mention (Paris is probably the most annoying one).
All the other songs I didn't mention on the standard edition of the album are good enough.
About Vigilante Shit, I think the mention of the title in the lyrics should have been more marked. Probably it would have worked even best if that line closed the song, it's anticlimatic to go back to a chorus we already heard more than once without any variation in the ryhtm beneath.
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Paris and Glitch are the two that seem fairly meh to me so far.
While some of the songs from the normal album are just okay, I do feel the 13-track running order works extremely well as a full listen. The lesser songs spring more to life in that environment, and that doesn't surprise me since she, despite the pop star label, is very much an album artist, not a singles-focused one.
I do agree that the remix of Sweet Nothing with just the piano and strings is really nice.
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Eight more dates have been added (all additional shows in cities that already had shows).
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FguLV4yWIAIOfrM?format=jpg&name=small)
It's wild that she can do stadium shows three nights in a row in PA, NJ, MA and Los Angeles, and even wilder that all will likely sell out immediately.
As that 2nd weekend of April is still open, I am still hoping STL lands in that spot.
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on the reputation tour she did do Toronto so I’m hoping for canadian dates. I didn’t think of Canada as being part of « international » dates but I guess it is, lol
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That is, indeed, insane. Three nights at the Linc in Philly? Followed by 3 at the Meadowlands? Wow.
I hope tickets stay relatively cheap, then, with demand low enough that her younger fans aren't having to pay hundreds to go.
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She released a bunch of remixes for Anti-Hero. And there's also an acoustic version of it, in Folklore's vein, I hope many other songs will get the same treatment as well down the line so that I can introduce them in my custom version of the album :D
Ironically I like Anti-Hero enough as it is to accept the album version as the "true" one, but there are more songs I wish would get folklorized, such as Mastermind, Question and Maroon. Anyway, this is how I reshuffled the album using all the songs available:
01. Anti-Hero
02. Maroon
03. Question...?
04. Snow on the Beach
05. You're On Your Own, Kid (strings remix)
06. Would've, Could've, Should've
07. Midnight Rain
08. Vigilante Shit
09. The Great War
10. Labyrinth
11. High Infidelity
12. Hits Different
13. Sweet Nothing (piano remix)
14. Mastermind
15. Bigger than the Whole Sky
16. Dear Reader
Dropping Lavender Haze created the need for a new opener, so I thought the lead single would be a choice as good as any. Originally I kept the standard tracklist order and, Anti-Hero aside, I would just replace the songs I didn't like with songs from the 3 A.M. version, but eventually I realized that Question worked better as part of a bunch of opening strong songs; also, I thought the two most moody songs of the album, Midnight Rain and Vigilante Shit, would work better one after the other.
Mastermind works as a closing song, so I consider that the ending of the album, with the last two songs at 15 and 16 being a sort of "tracklist encore". I eventually dropped Glitch, which would have made for a perfect 60 minutes of music.
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Yeah, some of the Anti-Hero remixes are nice, especially the acoustic one, but it's not possible to top the album version, which I think is a fantastic pop song. Like you, I would love to see a lot of these other songs get the same treatment.
Good call on dropping Bejeweled and Karma, the two bouncy pop songs, from your amended running order. Not bad songs, but neither is that good either. The video for Bejeweled is entertaining, though.
Sounds like Lavender Haze will be the second single. Not a bad song at all, but definitely one of the weakest links on the proper album (of 13).
Would've, Could've, Should've, The Great War and Bigger Than the Whole Sky are holding up as three of my five favorites from the whole thing, along with Anti-Hero and Labyrinth.
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Still no STL dates :(, but 17 more shows have been added. I cannot imagine how much money she is going to make on this tour. :eek :eek
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhSPvKQXkAAjtyl?format=jpg&name=small)
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I made a half hearted attempt to get tickets to Pittsburgh in pre sale but I couldn't make the timing work on tuesday. still holding out hope for canadian dates, at the very least Toronto.
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Anyone else get tickets for the tour this week in all the madness?
I got two tickets for the first Nashville show in May, at face value. :coolio :coolio
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Anyone else get tickets for the tour this week in all the madness?
I got two tickets for the first Nashville show in May, at face value. :coolio :coolio
One of my co workers got nose bleed tickets for over $100. I tried, but nothin'. Is there a place to still get them at normal price or is it cancelled for good?
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Anyone else get tickets for the tour this week in all the madness?
I got two tickets for the first Nashville show in May, at face value. :coolio :coolio
One of my co workers got nose bleed tickets for over $100. I tried, but nothin'. Is there a place to still get them at normal price or is it cancelled for good?
I suspect TM's official stance is that it is sold out, but El Barto made some great points in the below thread, including that it is likely they will release more at some point. That thread below is a good read.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52931.0
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Anyone else get tickets for the tour this week in all the madness?
I got two tickets for the first Nashville show in May, at face value. :coolio :coolio
My daughter is going.
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Anyone else get tickets for the tour this week in all the madness?
I got two tickets for the first Nashville show in May, at face value. :coolio :coolio
My daughter is going.
:tup :tup
Meanwhile, I know the charts and awards shows here are mostly meaningless, except of course when Dream Theater is involved :P. but Taylor won all six AMAs last night she was up for, and Anti-Hero is now the number 1 song in the country for the 4th week in a row (her 2nd longest number 1 ever).
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Found on YouTube this mashup of Would've, Could've, Should've and Haunted. Great stuff!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krOK-7hBfdU&ab_channel=RedHufflepuff13
Incidentally, this is how I discovered the song Haunted, for which there's also an acoustic version. Very nice song!
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Not bad at all, although they seemed to change the key of her vocals. That sounded a bit strange.
Haunted is her one song I could see a prog metal band playing and having it sound totally natural.
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Someone made an entire piano version of the Midnights album, 3 AM songs included.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR45UTSGNJI&list=PLKT0pZWgkAvs5y_oiNQlSvPaci7aYeP38&ab_channel=NgocDoan-AcousticPianoMusic
This is gonna be sooooo useful for my acoustic Taylor compilation I'm preparing, with songs from Folklore and Evermore..... ;D
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Nice, I will have to check those out later. I know she writes a lot of her songs that way, just her and the piano (or her and the acoustic), so I am guessing these will be how the songs sounded originally before they all mushroomed into the full production songs they became.
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https://variety.com/2022/film/news/taylor-swift-feature-directing-debut-searchlight-pictures-1235455606/ (https://variety.com/2022/film/news/taylor-swift-feature-directing-debut-searchlight-pictures-1235455606/)
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https://variety.com/2022/film/news/taylor-swift-feature-directing-debut-searchlight-pictures-1235455606/ (https://variety.com/2022/film/news/taylor-swift-feature-directing-debut-searchlight-pictures-1235455606/)
I read about that earlier. One thing is for sure, and that if she fails, it won't be for lack of trying. She is a hyper driven individual, and we know what a great writer she is, so we'll see. Just not sure the timing is great since the popularity of films as a whole seems to be dwindling overall, for a variety of reasons.
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Good day to be a fan of Ms. Swift.
The Shake It Off lawsuit was dropped: https://www.billboard.com/pro/taylor-swift-shake-it-off-lyrics-lawsuit-case-dropped/
And a lot more tickets are being made available for the Eras tour (as Barto predicted in the Ticketmaster thread): https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/taylor-swift-release-eras-tour-tickets-verified-fans-ticketmaster-1235184975/
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hey it’s december 13th! She’s 33 years old today
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If they play more than 3 seconds they get a copyright strike.
yeah i haven't been checking this thread but even playing the songs at all gets me a copyright claim so i can't monetize the video (not that i do anyways)
playing more than like 5-6 and the video just outright gets blocked and then nobody can watch it :lol
youtube's copyright system is completely ridiculous and it's why every music review video is like this now, the biggest name reviewers don't even play the songs period tho so i'm doing more than them at least :P
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If they play more than 3 seconds they get a copyright strike.
yeah i haven't been checking this thread but even playing the songs at all gets me a copyright claim so i can't monetize the video (not that i do anyways)
playing more than like 5-6 and the video just outright gets blocked and then nobody can watch it :lol
youtube's copyright system is completely ridiculous and it's why every music review video is like this now, the biggest name reviewers don't even play the songs period tho so i'm doing more than them at least :P
Hey, no offense intended with my earlier comments. I get it, it is hard to do reviews like that when you can't play much of any song.
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hey it’s december 13th! She’s 33 years old today
And it seems she spent it recording with Jack Antonoff yet again https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/1602802403492995072/photo/1
Wonder what they are working on...
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hey it’s december 13th! She’s 33 years old today
Happy second anniversary to evermore then! and of course, happy 33 to Taylor :D
I am surprised at the amount of remixes of the new album you can find on YouTube, where do people find all the vocal stems? I already don't know which alternate Midnights version to use - the acoustic guitar one, the piano one, the rock remixes...... :D
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How about some of the covers?
I feel like a lot of the crowd here that probably constantly rolls their eyes at a Taylor Swift thread being on page 1 :P would dig this metal cover of Anti-Hero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R36QqA8yvfI
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I don't care for that 'metal' cover at all. Good on them for doing it, though, and a special knowing nod to the guitarist for wearing a Dua Lipa shirt. Future Nostalgia is easily in my top ten albums of the last ten years.
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I don't care for that 'metal' cover at all. Good on them for doing it, though, and a special knowing nod to the guitarist for wearing a Dua Lipa shirt. Future Nostalgia is easily in my top ten albums of the last ten years.
That album isn't bad, but there is a Bad Blood level cringe song towards the end. Pretty good pop music. It's only the remixes that have the insufferable rapper in the middle on certain songs right? Nothing on the studio album?
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How about some of the covers?
I feel like a lot of the crowd here that probably constantly rolls their eyes at a Taylor Swift thread being on page 1 :P would dig this metal cover of Anti-Hero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R36QqA8yvfI
Reminds of a Frog Leap Studios cover, although this one can actually qualify as metal.
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I don't care for that 'metal' cover at all. Good on them for doing it, though, and a special knowing nod to the guitarist for wearing a Dua Lipa shirt. Future Nostalgia is easily in my top ten albums of the last ten years.
That album isn't bad, but there is a Bad Blood level cringe song towards the end. Pretty good pop music. It's only the remixes that have the insufferable rapper in the middle on certain songs right? Nothing on the studio album?
Yeah. "Hallucinate" and "Levitating" are some of the best pop songs in years.
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How about some of the covers?
I feel like a lot of the crowd here that probably constantly rolls their eyes at a Taylor Swift thread being on page 1 :P would dig this metal cover of Anti-Hero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R36QqA8yvfI
It's cool, but it's a bit "too much".
I prefer these rock covers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XvaP8ZODcs&list=PLKheXdOxsQUzIOyrrtB3cggqYJsPhOQ3c&index=1&ab_channel=EMOVEEJ
(Midnight Rain being the weakest of the bunch for me).
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How about some of the covers?
I feel like a lot of the crowd here that probably constantly rolls their eyes at a Taylor Swift thread being on page 1 :P would dig this metal cover of Anti-Hero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R36QqA8yvfI
It's cool, but it's a bit "too much".
I prefer these rock covers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XvaP8ZODcs&list=PLKheXdOxsQUzIOyrrtB3cggqYJsPhOQ3c&index=1&ab_channel=EMOVEEJ
(Midnight Rain being the weakest of the bunch for me).
Some of them are pretty good, but some sound a bit unnatural, almost like they hurried up the tempos to where her singing sounds like she is constantly trying to catch up to the music. Some are well done for sure, though.
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Even the cheapest option which could still be $410 has a service fee of $65 per ticket. Why would they ever need to charge that much? And then they make you agree to purchase whatever tickets they select in your preferred price range even if that total is the $410. I would love to surprise my wife with Taylor Swift tickets but I'm not paying that much. Especially for what will certainly be nose bleed seats. Fuck Ticketmaster.
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Even the cheapest option which could still be $410 has a service fee of $65 per ticket. Why would they ever need to charge that much? And then they make you agree to purchase whatever tickets they select in your preferred price range even if that total is the $410. I would love to surprise my wife with Taylor Swift tickets but I'm not paying that much. Especially for what will certainly be nose bleed seats. Fuck Ticketmaster.
Come on, now. You won't want to miss the show if it ends up being one where she plays all of Reputation.
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Even the cheapest option which could still be $410 has a service fee of $65 per ticket. Why would they ever need to charge that much? And then they make you agree to purchase whatever tickets they select in your preferred price range even if that total is the $410. I would love to surprise my wife with Taylor Swift tickets but I'm not paying that much. Especially for what will certainly be nose bleed seats. Fuck Ticketmaster.
Come on, now. You won't want to miss the show if it ends up being one where she plays all of Reputation.
Well that settles it. I'm definitely not buying tickets.
Being an Eras tour, she'll want to pick the absolute best songs from every album, but knowing my luck, Bad Blood would still somehow make the set. That's still worse than anything on Reputation, but to its credit, at least she wasn't trying too hard to be hip and edgy on the song. That chorus is nails on a chalkboard though.
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Even the cheapest option which could still be $410 has a service fee of $65 per ticket. Why would they ever need to charge that much? And then they make you agree to purchase whatever tickets they select in your preferred price range even if that total is the $410. I would love to surprise my wife with Taylor Swift tickets but I'm not paying that much. Especially for what will certainly be nose bleed seats. Fuck Ticketmaster.
Come on, now. You won't want to miss the show if it ends up being one where she plays all of Reputation.
Well that settles it. I'm definitely not buying tickets.
Being an Eras tour, she'll want to pick the absolute best songs from every album, but knowing my luck, Bad Blood would still somehow make the set. That's still worse than anything on Reputation, but to its credit, at least she wasn't trying too hard to be hip and edgy on the song. That chorus is nails on a chalkboard though.
My guess is she will do a handful of mash-ups to work in four or five songs into an 8-minute slot, that way she can cover a bit of material in a short time, and I suspect Bad Blood, the chorus most likely, will end up in one, but I'd be surprised if the song was one that got played in full, as I cannot see it ever usurping Blank Space or Shake It Off from a set list, and since BB got played on the Rep tour and Wildest Dreams did not, I would think Wildest Dreams would get the love this time around if she went with a 3rd full song from 1989. And we can't forget Style. When she did that Paris concert in late 2019, as sort of the precursor for the Lover tour that was eventually cancelled due to COVID, she did Blank Space, Style and Shake It Off from 1989, so maybe we will be lucky and Bad Blood with be a 2 tours and done song.
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Rehearsals for the tour have begun! :hat :hat
And with Anti-Hero returning to number 1 on the Hot 100 for it's seventh week at the top, it is now tied with Blank Space (which also spend seven weeks at number 1) for being her song with the most weeks at number 1. I think Shake It Off is still her most successful single. That was only number 1 for four weeks, but spent like six months in the top 10. :eek :eek
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Oh no some asshole brought back Taylor Swift on top of the page again >:( :lol
Well, I remember posting some time ago about some cool acoustic remixes of the songs from Midnights. There's a WHOLE world out there of remixes - acoustic guitar, piano, karaoke piano, even some rock remixes which are quite decent and not overdone.... couple this with the fact that you can even find stems here and there, and you can basically create your own alternative album. There's even a site, Midnightsmaker.com, where you can customize the cover art!
So that's what I did, I eventually made my own "I wish it was still Folklore era" version of Midnights, I posted earlier my custom tracklist for the actual album, and now I managed to have / create an entirely acoustic version of that tracklist. I used the three originals - Anti Hero, You're On Your Own Kid and Sweet Nothing - that got an acoustic remix, and then used stuff I found on YouTube, for most of the songs I merged an acoustic version with an instrumental piano one to have guitar and piano together, in a couple of cases I kept the song as I found them, and for Vigilante Shit I even managed to find stems so I added the original bass line to an acoustic version.
I must say, I'm almost envious of the amount of creativity there is out there and the fun I could have with this album, and how I could not do this for my favorite metal bands.
Truth to be told, I guess there's not even a point - why, for example, would I want to "redo" a Dream Theater album? how would I even begin to remix the stems of such complex music, and why would I want an all acoustic version of their albums? I went looking for acoustic or rock covers of Taylor 'cause I'm not crazy with her most recent style to begin with. But it was very fun, thanks to the creativity of people out there, to have so much material to chose from (and some very rudimental skills of audio editing) to create the album I hoped Taylor would release. Now I have two versions of the same album to listen to!
And in the end, back to Taylor herself - in the 20 days we managed to shut up about her, she released the video for Lavender Haze. I still think it's one of the very worst songs on the album (or, to be more fair to her, it's simply one of the songs most distant from my tastes), but the video was ahestetically beautiful.
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Oh no some asshole brought back Taylor Swift on top of the page again >:( :lol
And it wasn't me!! :lol :lol
Agreed about the Lavender Haze video. Very well done and looks gorgeous, but I doubt I will revisit it much, for one, because I am not overly wild about the song, and for two, the video doesn't have the strong re-watchability factor, IMO.
And yeah, it is crazy how many different versions are out there by others of her new songs. I don't have the skills to cobble together such remixes and whatnot, but they are cool to hear when others do it.
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Since we are back talking about Taylor Swift... :)
...A couple of days ago I was listening to Red as I was driving with my wife. I'm pretty convinced it's my favorite album of hers.
And State of Grace is a top, top song.
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Yep, from beginning to end, it is hard to top Red. There are times I prefer Speak Now or Evermore, but there is no fat on Red (the original). I agree about State of Grace, although I can name at least a handful of songs from that record I like more now.
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Anyway, with folklore and evermore out, and my previously mentioned alternate version of Midnights with all acoustic guitar / piano stuff (thank you creative people of YouTube!), I've been able to create my acoustic / minimalistic Taylor Swift compilation (and, like most of my compilations, I have a weird habit of organizing them like a setlist), an imaginary intimate theatre tour where she plays a mostly acoustic show and saves a full band arrangement for the encores.
Here's how my imaginary "folklore / evermore / Midnights acoustic tour" would go, all songs are meant to be acoustic save for the last song and the encores:
The 1
Willow
Anti-Hero (the official acoustic version)
Cardigan
Champagne Problems
Maroon (custom made piano / acoustic guitar version)
My Tears Ricochet
You're on Your Own, Kid (original strings version)
Exile
No Body, No Crime
Question (custom made piano / acoustic guitar version)
This is me Trying
Would've, Could've, Should've (acoustic guitar version)
Mad Woman
Carolina
Bigger than the Whole Sky ("sad piano" version I found on YouTube)
Sweet Nothing (original strings version)
'Tis the Damn Season
Betty
Mastermind (custom made piano / acoustic guitar version)
The Lakes
All Too Well (10 minutes version, an heavier mix I found on YouTube)
==================
Wildest Dreams (live version, voice and electric guitar only)
Red (original song)
Love Story (rock remix I found on YouTube, custom mixed with an added orchestral intro and outro)
Before I discovered on YouTube all kinds of possible piano and acoustic versions of all Midnights songs, and I was "bound" to use only the few officially released acoustic remixes of the Midnights songs, I had room for Dorothea and Long Story Short in the set. Also, I found a spot for Illicit Affairs but I sacrificed it for Carolina, soundtrack song for the movie Where the Crawdads Sing, since I became hauntingly obsessed by that wonderful song. Also an acoustic version of Vigilante Shit and a female vocals only version of Evermore were contenders if I had more running time (takes me 45 minutes and counting to go to work so all my "setlist playlists" are 95 minutes long, give or take. If played live, I'd reckon they'd all go over 2 hours with all the pauses and breaks between songs in a show).
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I think with a fictional show like this, doing Cardigan, August and Betty back-to-back-to-back is almost a must, given that it's a trilogy.
It is wild to think that she could do 2-3 nights in a city on the upcoming tour and play nothing but songs she has released since her last full length tour and have no repeats in any city (if she rotated set lists each night, which I know is not her thing, outside of a few spots). To say she is prolific would be an understatement.
I don't think I've heard the rock remix of Love Story, but the synth version she did on the 1989 tour was spectacular. She could do that version every time she plays the song going forward, and I imagine many fans wouldn't argue with it.
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I don't think I've heard the rock remix of Love Story, but the synth version she did on the 1989 tour was spectacular.
You can find it on YouTube by a guy named Matt Ebenezer, he also did what I consider the best rock version yet of Anti-Hero.
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I don't think I've heard the rock remix of Love Story, but the synth version she did on the 1989 tour was spectacular.
You can find it on YouTube by a guy named Matt Ebenezer, he also did what I consider the best rock version yet of Anti-Hero.
I actually didn't like that rock version of Love Story. Some of the riffs and transitions sounded pretty generic to me. That transition after the first chorus into the second verse was pretty blah, for example. See, this is what happens when others try to inject their own ideas into Taylor's songs. ;)
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Tour starts next week! :coolio :coolio
I cannot recall...is anyone else going to see her on this tour?
Note: I will take no replies as a no. :P :lol
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still waiting on Canadian dates…
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I'd like to see her in the UK but as with Canada, nothing's been announced yet. And I suspect my chance of getting a ticket is probably minimal. And I might also feel a bit odd attending as a solo 50 year old male but what can you do? :coolio
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Man, I used to hate her. I thought she was the antithesis of my taste in music (which for the most part, she always has been). And then I started working retail at night when there’s bigger all customers. Midnights is massive in the rotation on our radio station, so I’ve gotten a lot of Anti-Hero and, oddly enough, Question…? listens. So I went back and started listening to her a lot and…
…goddamn it, I like Taylor Swift now.
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I'd like to see her in the UK but as with Canada, nothing's been announced yet. And I suspect my chance of getting a ticket is probably minimal. And I might also feel a bit odd attending as a solo 50 year old male but what can you do? :coolio
Nothing odd about it. Good music is good music. Don't let anyone shame you into thinking otherwise.
Man, I used to hate her. I thought she was the antithesis of my taste in music (which for the most part, she always has been). And then I started working retail at night when there’s bigger all customers. Midnights is massive in the rotation on our radio station, so I’ve gotten a lot of Anti-Hero and, oddly enough, Question…? listens. So I went back and started listening to her a lot and…
…goddamn it, I like Taylor Swift now.
Nice! I never hated her, as I had zero experience with her music prior to the winter of 2020-2021, but, as I have said before, do not let the pop elements fool ya. She is the real deal.
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I don't know yet if I'm going to go, but my daughter and one of her friends are locked and loaded with their ticket.
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I'd like to see her in the UK but as with Canada, nothing's been announced yet. And I suspect my chance of getting a ticket is probably minimal. And I might also feel a bit odd attending as a solo 50 year old male but what can you do? :coolio
Nothing odd about it. Good music is good music. Don't let anyone shame you into thinking otherwise.
Oh, sure! I was coming at it from the 'being in a sea of 15-20 year old females'-angle :biggrin:
Still, nothing that couldn't be overcome by borrowing a friend's daughter. If I had any.
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I do have to say when I got my wife concert tickets back on the Bad Reputation tour, I was sitting with her in a sea of teen or preteen girls and I felt really awkward as hell. I like her music but the audience in that stadium was part of a demograph that I was a clear minority in.
Oddly enough right in front of us were two very older couple must've been in there 70s? or late 60s? they had no kids with them and sat there for the whole concert pretty stoic, taking pictures on and off and just left after.
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I guess at least i’ll only be 25-27 when she comes through Australia. If there’s enough of the setlist that i really vibe with, I’d consider joining the war for Eras tickets.
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I guess at least i’ll only be 25-27 when she comes through Australia. If there’s enough of the setlist that i really vibe with, I’d consider joining the war for Eras tickets.
Mate, you'll still look 50 to a 20 year old :biggrin:
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I don't know yet if I'm going to go, but my daughter and one of her friends are locked and loaded with their ticket.
:tup :tup
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I'd like to see her in the UK but as with Canada, nothing's been announced yet. And I suspect my chance of getting a ticket is probably minimal. And I might also feel a bit odd attending as a solo 50 year old male but what can you do? :coolio
Nothing odd about it. Good music is good music. Don't let anyone shame you into thinking otherwise.
Oh, sure! I was coming at it from the 'being in a sea of 15-20 year old females'-angle :biggrin:
Still, nothing that couldn't be overcome by borrowing a friend's daughter. If I had any.
Haha, I hear ya!
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I do have to say when I got my wife concert tickets back on the Bad Reputation tour, I was sitting with her in a sea of teen or preteen girls and I felt really awkward as hell. I like her music but the audience in that stadium was part of a demograph that I was a clear minority in.
Oddly enough right in front of us were two very older couple must've been in there 70s? or late 60s? they had no kids with them and sat there for the whole concert pretty stoic, taking pictures on and off and just left after.
Oh, for sure. Even though I get irritated with the "I thought Taylor Swift was for teenage girls" crap, women are certainly more of the target audience, but just like women are the minority at a Dream Theater concert, I will have no problem being in the minority at Taylor's concert. :tup :tup
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I guess at least i’ll only be 25-27 when she comes through Australia. If there’s enough of the setlist that i really vibe with, I’d consider joining the war for Eras tickets.
Mate, you'll still look 50 to a 20 year old :biggrin:
HAHA. "Who's the old guy?" :)
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I guess at least i’ll only be 25-27 when she comes through Australia. If there’s enough of the setlist that i really vibe with, I’d consider joining the war for Eras tickets.
Mate, you'll still look 50 to a 20 year old :biggrin:
HAHA. "Who's the old guy?" :)
Hmm.. what you’re saying is… irrelevant because I don’t care about what other people think? I’m
Kinda the guy who goes to concerts ngl. Going to a Metallica tribute on Saturday night and then Ed Sheeran on Sunday, who’s only 10 days before I see Megadeth and they’re the day before Trivium.
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I guess at least i’ll only be 25-27 when she comes through Australia. If there’s enough of the setlist that i really vibe with, I’d consider joining the war for Eras tickets.
Mate, you'll still look 50 to a 20 year old :biggrin:
HAHA. "Who's the old guy?" :)
Hmm.. what you’re saying is… irrelevant because I don’t care about what other people think? I’m
Kinda the guy who goes to concerts ngl. Going to a Metallica tribute on Saturday night and then Ed Sheeran on Sunday, who’s only 10 days before I see Megadeth and they’re the day before Trivium.
That's the spirit! :tup :tup
I can't wait to see what the set list is next week, and what, if any, changes there are from night to night given that she is doing multiple nights in every city.
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Awww. I was poking fun at younger people's perception of age rather than anything else :biggrin: I very clearly remember being 19 and thinking a woman who was 22 was past it and then some.
Of course I should attend a Taylor Swift concert and not care. But social norms, which perhaps I shouldn't care about one iota, might make it a little uncomfortable. Not a dissimilar feeling to wanting to take a photo through the fence of the local primary school the other day when I noticed a climbing wall in the playground looked more like a set of stocks. It struck me as hilarious and would have made a good post on Facebook but yikes... I'd probably have been arrested on all manner of charges (I should add no children were around!).
Anyway, sorry again, Deadeye. I wasn't having a laugh at your expense; your post was just the catalyst for what was really a reflection on my own current day insecurities over reaching 50 and being alone :lol
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Awww. I was poking fun at younger people's perception of age rather than anything else :biggrin: I very clearly remember being 19 and thinking a woman who was 22 was past it and then some.
Anyway, sorry again, Deadeye. I wasn't having a laugh at your expense; your post was just the catalyst for what was really a reflection on my own current day insecurities over reaching 50 and being alone :lol
Hey, no offence taken matey! My post is actually the counter-argument to your own there. If someone was too old but was genuinely there to enjoy the show, who gives a :censored what people think? Go, have a great time. Just, maybe don’t talk to younger people because that could end your career real fast.
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I don't have any interest in seeing TS, but if I did, I would go and shake my ass like everyone else.
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I don't have any interest in seeing TS, but if I did, I would go and shake my ass like everyone else.
We can almost visualize you doing this...
(https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/-CJe6Imo6EP0Kb3ii5tQCoJRbKs/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2014/08/19/772/n/1922283/1a1de3538c401f4c_Tay4/i/Also-Wild-Tutu-Shaking.gif)
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You're welcome.
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Awww. I was poking fun at younger people's perception of age rather than anything else :biggrin: I very clearly remember being 19 and thinking a woman who was 22 was past it and then some.
This is a good one. CL musicians forums used to always have qualifiers like "Looking for people between the ages 18-24". Like, what??? C'mon, man!
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I will reiterate that I have no idea how she is possibly going to narrow down all of these eras to a single set list (and she historically only leaves one or two spots open per night to rotate, and those are usually the songs she does solo, just her and her guitar or piano). Consider that since her last full length tour:
-She has released four brand new albums (her 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th) with (counting bonus tracks) 73 songs.
-She has also re-released two prior albums under the TV name, which combined have 15 new (to fans) songs.
So, that is 88 new songs since 2018, and that is not even counting Carolina and other random songs.
You then have to factor in all of the songs and countless hits from the first six albums.
It's crazy to think that if she decided to do five completely different set lists at the five LA shows at the end of the tour, that would still leave a ton of songs fans want to hear un-played.
How she is going to come up with a single set list for a whole tour (assuming that is the case) is beyond me. :lol :lol
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Yeah, interesting.
My guess is she'll limit Folklore and Evermore perhaps to one or two songs from each, or maybe that and a combined medley. If there's too much from those two albums and also Midnights, it'll be one slow, downbeat concert. Not necessarily saying there'd be anything wrong with that but I don't think, very generally, that's what her younger fans would want. She could quite possibly sex up tracks from all three albums, too.
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I would be shocked if she "sexed up" anything. Maybe she might give a sultry performance of a song or two, ala I Knew You Were Trouble on the 1989 Tour, but sexing things up is not really her thing (thankfully). I mean, shaking her butt in Shake It Off is like the most risque thing she does, and that's like a 1.5 outta 10.
My guess is Folklore/Evermore songs will fill one of the "Taylor and her acoustic" spots every night. She could easily play almost any song from one of those two albums each night like that, given the nature of those songs. I could also see a mashup of songs from both where we get parts of like 5-6 songs in a 8-minute mashup or something like that.
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There’s only really 2 songs I care for from folklore, and I’m totally unfamiliar with evermore. The two I’d like to see are cardigan and the last great american dynasty.
Kinda makes me weirdly anxious how none of these titles are capitalised. Especially now that the word American has a red line under it because it’s always spelled with a cap.
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I would be shocked if she "sexed up" anything. Maybe she might give a sultry performance of a song or two, ala I Knew You Were Trouble on the 1989 Tour, but sexing things up is not really her thing (thankfully). I mean, shaking her butt in Shake It Off is like the most risque thing she does, and that's like a 1.5 outta 10.
Oh, god. This is a great example of two countries being divided by a common language :lol
'Sex up' in British English kinda just means adding a bit of pizazz, jazz it up a bit. That kind of thing. Not to be taken literally.
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https://yougov.co.uk/topics/entertainment/articles-reports/2023/03/09/best-taylor-swift-albums-and-songs-according-swift
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I would be shocked if she "sexed up" anything. Maybe she might give a sultry performance of a song or two, ala I Knew You Were Trouble on the 1989 Tour, but sexing things up is not really her thing (thankfully). I mean, shaking her butt in Shake It Off is like the most risque thing she does, and that's like a 1.5 outta 10.
Oh, god. This is a great example of two countries being divided by a common language :lol
'Sex up' in British English kinda just means adding a bit of pizazz, jazz it up a bit. That kind of thing. Not to be taken literally.
:tup :tup
There’s only really 2 songs I care for from folklore, and I’m totally unfamiliar with evermore. The two I’d like to see are cardigan and the last great american dynasty.
Kinda makes me weirdly anxious how none of these titles are capitalised. Especially now that the word American has a red line under it because it’s always spelled with a cap.
I totally forgot about that. I find that kind of stylization rather silly. I have every song in my iTunes capitalized the normal way.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/entertainment/articles-reports/2023/03/09/best-taylor-swift-albums-and-songs-according-swift
The lack of love for Speak Now makes me a little sad, but it's not surprising. It's probably not country enough for the early country fans, and it's not poppy enough for the pop fans. Plus, it doesn't have any of her most popular songs with the masses. I think it has many of her best songs, but, when it comes to her most well known songs, there is no Love Story or Shake It Off or Anti-Hero on there.
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/03/14/more-than-half-of-us-adults-say-theyre-taylor-swift-fans-survey-finds/?sh=13888a0d6877
Her fanbase is evenly split across genders: 48% is male, and 52% is female, according to the survey.
:corn :corn
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/03/14/more-than-half-of-us-adults-say-theyre-taylor-swift-fans-survey-finds/?sh=13888a0d6877
Her fanbase is evenly split across genders: 48% is male, and 52% is female, according to the survey.
:corn :corn
Half of the adults in the country are Taylor Swift fans? No fucking way.
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Half of the adults in the country are Taylor Swift fans? No fucking way.
I believe it. You've seen her album sales and concert ticket sales, right?
I doubt that means every single fan is fanatical, as any artist with widespread mainstream appeal is going to have a good percentage of casual fans. There might be those who answered "yes" to the "Are you fan of Taylor Swift?" question simply because they like a few songs.
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/03/14/more-than-half-of-us-adults-say-theyre-taylor-swift-fans-survey-finds/?sh=13888a0d6877
Her fanbase is evenly split across genders: 48% is male, and 52% is female, according to the survey.
:corn :corn
Half of the adults in the country are Taylor Swift fans? No fucking way.
I don't live in America but that sounds completely insane and doesn't seem within reason at all. Then again the 'masses' love a lot of easily digestible stuff with no depth so it is entirely possible I suppose.
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A survey of 2,000 or so.
If you dig into the questions, I think it does bias people to say they're a fan.
For example, it asks, "Are you a fan, casual fan, or not a fan of Taylor Swift"?
She's had a few songs I like, so I might even answer "Casual Fan" despite not really liking her very much.
The same survey claims that most of her fans are white liberal women, BTW.
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Then again the 'masses' love a lot of easily digestible stuff with no depth so it is entirely possible I suppose.
Don't you fall from that high horse, it's a long way down.
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Then again the 'masses' love a lot of easily digestible stuff with no depth so it is entirely possible I suppose.
Don't you fall from that high horse, it's a long way down.
I like plenty of crap too. :lol
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/03/14/more-than-half-of-us-adults-say-theyre-taylor-swift-fans-survey-finds/?sh=13888a0d6877
Her fanbase is evenly split across genders: 48% is male, and 52% is female, according to the survey.
:corn :corn
Half of the adults in the country are Taylor Swift fans? No fucking way.
I don't live in America but that sounds completely insane and doesn't seem within reason at all. Then again the 'masses' love a lot of easily digestible stuff with no depth so it is entirely possible I suppose.
Agreed on the "high horse"; to say that Taylor Swift's music has no depth is provably, objectively wrong.
But beyond that, we - America - are a celebrity driven culture. Her "war" with her manager about her material made non-music news. Her relationships with the likes of Harry Styles, Jake Gyllenhal and one of the Jo-Bros. (Joe?) made non-music news. Her kerfuffle with Kanye was CERTAINLY front page news. And through all of that, she's had an almost prescient knack for coming out of those as a woman of power, not a victim, and we LOVE that shit. We eat that for breakfast, then reheat the leftovers for lunch.
Frankly, I'm surprised it's only half.
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Stanford - yes, Stanford - is the latest college to announce that they will offer a college course based on Taylor Swift's songwriting (or in their case, one song). The depth in her music is in her lyrics, her storytelling. If someone wants to argue that she isn't a great singer or great instrumentalist, that is fair, and I won't put up a fight, although I do love her singing voice flaws and all, but the greatness in her writing is as plain as day.
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I don't think she is GREAT at anything (except maybe marketing), but I think is PRETTY DAMN GOOD at a whole lot.
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/03/14/more-than-half-of-us-adults-say-theyre-taylor-swift-fans-survey-finds/?sh=13888a0d6877
Her fanbase is evenly split across genders: 48% is male, and 52% is female, according to the survey.
:corn :corn
Half of the adults in the country are Taylor Swift fans? No fucking way.
I don't live in America but that sounds completely insane and doesn't seem within reason at all. Then again the 'masses' love a lot of easily digestible stuff with no depth so it is entirely possible I suppose.
Agreed on the "high horse"; to say that Taylor Swift's music has no depth is provably, objectively wrong.
But beyond that, we - America - are a celebrity driven culture. Her "war" with her manager about her material made non-music news. Her relationships with the likes of Harry Styles, Jake Gyllenhal and one of the Jo-Bros. (Joe?) made non-music news. Her kerfuffle with Kanye was CERTAINLY front page news. And through all of that, she's had an almost prescient knack for coming out of those as a woman of power, not a victim, and we LOVE that shit. We eat that for breakfast, then reheat the leftovers for lunch.
Frankly, I'm surprised it's only half.
I'm not saying half of America has never heard of Taylor Swift, I'm saying that there's no way half of America are Taylor Swift fans.
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I'm not saying half of America has never heard of Taylor Swift, I'm saying that there's no way half of America are Taylor Swift fans.
Okay, but that has already been addressed by several of us, but to reiterate, it is likely that quite a lot of people who answered "yes" to the question about being a fan are merely casual fans. No one achieves that level of mainstream success with having nothing but diehard fans.
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I'm not saying half of America has never heard of Taylor Swift, I'm saying that there's no way half of America are Taylor Swift fans.
Okay, but that has already been addressed by several of us, but to reiterate, it is likely that quite a lot of people who answered "yes" to the question about being a fan are merely casual fans. No one achieves that level of mainstream success with having nothing but diehard fans.
It has?
Hearing of her and being a fan are two completely different things. There is no way in hell that HALF
of the entire population of the US are fans of Taylor Swift. No way.
In fact, if we're talking about the entire population of the US, I'd be shocked if half have even heard of her.
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I'm not saying half of America has never heard of Taylor Swift, I'm saying that there's no way half of America are Taylor Swift fans.
Okay, but that has already been addressed by several of us, but to reiterate, it is likely that quite a lot of people who answered "yes" to the question about being a fan are merely casual fans. No one achieves that level of mainstream success with having nothing but diehard fans.
It has?
Hearing of her and being a fan are two completely different things. There is no way in hell that HALF
of the entire population of the US are fans of Taylor Swift. No way.
In fact, if we're talking about the entire population of the US, I'd be shocked if half have even heard of her.
If they are, I definitely won't be coming over there.
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I'm not saying half of America has never heard of Taylor Swift, I'm saying that there's no way half of America are Taylor Swift fans.
Okay, but that has already been addressed by several of us, but to reiterate, it is likely that quite a lot of people who answered "yes" to the question about being a fan are merely casual fans. No one achieves that level of mainstream success with having nothing but diehard fans.
It has?
Hearing of her and being a fan are two completely different things. There is no way in hell that HALF
of the entire population of the US are fans of Taylor Swift. No way.
In fact, if we're talking about the entire population of the US, I'd be shocked if half have even heard of her.
It's like you are not listening to us on purpose. Re-read Skeever's post, quoted below.
A survey of 2,000 or so.
If you dig into the questions, I think it does bias people to say they're a fan.
For example, it asks, "Are you a fan, casual fan, or not a fan of Taylor Swift"?
She's had a few songs I like, so I might even answer "Casual Fan" despite not really liking her very much.
The same survey claims that most of her fans are white liberal women, BTW.
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Then I stand by my statement. Even more.
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I’m sure you do. Digging one’s heels in when off the mark seems to be the theme here lately.
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What am I missing?
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And I've already answered a part of this too: you don't have to "like" or even "know" her music to know HER, and to like HER. She's transcended music as the only means for her celebrity. Her flap with Kanye made the national nightly news (where he grabbed the microphone from her at the awards show). She's not "Steven Wilson" where almost the entire fan base is a proactive search for him. You can know her and like her passively, without doing a thing.
I can ABSOLUTELY see people saying "I'm a FAN!" without being able to sing a note of her music. As I noted above, she has an almost magical ability to get into these confrontational situations and come out smelling like a rose WITHOUT being a victim. That's popularity gold in our society today.
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But to be fair the Kanye incident was a huge headline because of Kanye and not Taylor Swift though. That could have been any other musician who got their award yoinked out of their hands by Kanye pulling his stunt because "Beyonce deserves it". The fact it was Taylor was accidental more than anything else, even if I'm sure it won her some fans because people felt bad for her. Kanye doing batshit crazy things has always been big for headlines and easy clicks and there's still a ton of discussion and outrage when he does something crazy, even though you would think people would know by now.
Otherwise I agree with Skeever that the survey it does come off as a bit biased and pushing people towards a certain answer they want them to give. When your options are almost "i love her, i like her or i hate her" a lot of people might go for the middle option as a neutral pick even though in this case it's not. No matter what I guess it's good for her she is big in America, I can't say I've noticed much of that stretch over here to the EU, but you get that with some artists who are big in America and not in the EU, and the other way around.
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But to be fair the Kanye incident was a huge headline because of Kanye and not Taylor Swift though. That could have been any other musician who got their award yoinked out of their hands by Kanye pulling his stunt because "Beyonce deserves it". The fact it was Taylor was accidental more than anything else, even if I'm sure it won her some fans because people felt bad for her. Kanye doing batshit crazy things has always been big for headlines and easy clicks and there's still a ton of discussion and outrage when he does something crazy, even though you would think people would know by now.
You're not wrong, but does it matter? It WAS her.
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Back to tour talk and keeping it positive, I am seeing a lot of chatter on Twitter about songs confirmed for the tour. Many have come from rehearsals this week (where fans are near the stadium and can hear song-x being rehearsed). Given the number of songs supposedly being rehearsed, it gives me great hope that the set list will really vary from night to night. We will know for sure in the next few days, with the first shows on Friday and Saturday.
For me, I cannot wait to see what she plays from Folklore and Evermore, given that most of those songs are more suited for an intimate setting than a stadium show.
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Four new (old) songs released today! Will check those out later.
Tour starts tonight!
Some pics from rehearsals this week...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrXlRgmWIBIrFfh?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrXlRgVWIAcFNku?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrXlRgbWAAA2fTl?format=jpg&name=medium)
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our girl is looking good, as always
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I swear she gets more attractive with time.
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Watching ticket prices for the show tonight has been interesting. Get-ins are currently running $400, which is up quite a bit. That suggests people were still buying them at $300. I'm kind of surprised by that. I'm also noticing what might be an unexpected consequence of ticket sales officially closing before they even went on sale. I haven't seen any tickets go on sale through official channels, although that might still happen. What I'm wondering is what will happen to the 5-digit seats. Front row floors, seats where you'll get a good look up one of those short skirts of hers, have been sitting at ~$25,000. I can't imagine that holding, nor could I expect anybody to eat those.
Sadly, Winery Dogs is tonight, so I won't be able to watch until the end. This really has been a unique situation, though.
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Stubhub currently shows 534 seats left, with only scattered ones left on the floor. I am not an expert at following this stuff and knowing how it all works, but I would imagine that any floor seats unsold by the time intermission hits before Taylor comes out will see her team bringing people down from up high to get free upgrades for better seats, that way the only possible empties are way up high. Of course, no clue how that works if those floor seats then get sold at the very last second and then people show up. Seems like a logistical nightmare.
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Taylor's longtime lead guitarist, Paul Sidoti, was photographed with fans before the show (he's in the middle) and look at the shirt he is wearing. :censored :censored
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrdiqwvakAAyG7f?format=jpg&name=small)
He needs to be fired immediately. :lol :biggrin:
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Taylor's longtime lead guitarist, Paul Sidoti, was photographed with fans before the show (he's in the middle) and look at the shirt he is wearing. :censored :censored
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrdiqwvakAAyG7f?format=jpg&name=small)
He needs to be fired immediately. :lol :biggrin:
I bet he can't even name 3 songs. :neverusethis:
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Taylor's longtime lead guitarist, Paul Sidoti, was photographed with fans before the show (he's in the middle) and look at the shirt he is wearing. :censored :censored
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrdiqwvakAAyG7f?format=jpg&name=small)
He needs to be fired immediately. :lol :biggrin:
I love that he’s still playing with her. He and the bassist have been there since the Fearless tours I think.
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Taylor's longtime lead guitarist, Paul Sidoti, was photographed with fans before the show (he's in the middle) and look at the shirt he is wearing. :censored :censored
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrdiqwvakAAyG7f?format=jpg&name=small)
He needs to be fired immediately. :lol :biggrin:
I bet he can't even name 3 songs. :neverusethis:
Absolutely guarantee you he can.
(Although perhaps your comment was tongue in cheek.)
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Spoilers, obviously.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/taylor-swift/2023/state-farm-stadium-glendale-az-bbb91ce.html
Wow. I did not expect this Mike Portnoy-esque, Score-like, Evening With format of a setlist!!! :eek
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That set list is pure insanity.
44 songs. 3 hour and 15 minutes, with no breaks or intermissions. :eek :eek
While Speak Now only getting one song is a bit of a bummer, I think the balance is excellent. 26 of the 44 songs were from the last four albums, the ones she had never toured on, so the never-played-before albums are getting a bit more love in the set list, with a shit ton of hits from the first six.
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Videos are on YouTube obviously, the visuals are stunning. I know I sound like a broken record but if she would do only the Folklore / Evermore part, I'd totally go. Heck, I'd probably sit through the whole three hours and just space out during the songs I don't like to just enjoy the artistic side of the show :D
I already found moments of the entire stadium singing along to "And you were tossing me the car keys....." and "She would have made such a lovely bride", not these exact parts but what comes immediately after ;D
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Is she trying to burn herself out after the third show?
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Not a fan, but wow. 44 songs :eek
Less than 45, but wow. That’s a lot.
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I just watched an audience video of last night’s show, every song heavily edited and cut down and even that was an hour and 20 minutes
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Videos are on YouTube obviously, the visuals are stunning. I know I sound like a broken record but if she would do only the Folklore / Evermore part, I'd totally go. Heck, I'd probably sit through the whole three hours and just space out during the songs I don't like to just enjoy the artistic side of the show :D
I already found moments of the entire stadium singing along to "And you were tossing me the car keys....." and "She would have made such a lovely bride", not these exact parts but what comes immediately after ;D
You and me both. A bunch of my favorites from those records weren't played, yet she still played tons of great ones from both.
That is a bummer, though, that Mirrorball is getting the "one show and done" treatment, as that was played in the surprise song spot that she said will be completely different at every show on the tour.
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Is she trying to burn herself out after the third show?
Why would she burn out?
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Not a fan, but wow. 44 songs :eek
Less than 45, but wow. That’s a lot.
To be fair, a few of them looked to be slightly shortened versions. Like, she did The Man and You Need to Calm Down as a single performance with no stops where all of The Man was played and then it transitioned to the start of the second verse of You Need to Calm Down and then that whole song was played till the end from that point. That helps keep the show moving and can knock out a minute here and minute there, in order to be able to play more songs.
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I think Blank Space is alright. That’s as deep as I go with T Swizzle.
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Is she trying to burn herself out after the third show?
Why would she burn out?
Because 44 songs is a lot of songs to sing every night for a full tour.
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In other news, today I finally realized what Kanye West did to her at a Grammy awards defending Beyonce :lol
I mean, a bit of context: as a good ol' metalhead, I'm not terribly versed in everything about gossip and pop music. I now remember that some years ago there was this dispute about a dude upstaging a singer, it was big news, and then like everything else (other scandals of various degrees, most recently Kid Rock being punched by Will Smith for example) the world forgot and moved on.
I was never aware of Taylor Swift, I seriously couldn't name a single song from her before this thread made me curious about why prog metal fans were talking about her. I knew the name and that she was a singer, but I couldn't even probably but a face to the name. So since the Kanye West incident was long in the past, I never remembered it during my "OMG Folklore is awesome! and Evermore is great too! what a surprise!" phase, and today out of boredom (and running out of things to watch) I started the Taylor documentary she has on Netflix (Miss Americana) and I finally connected the dots. :D
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That's a lot of songs for the big fans! I don't think I would be super excited to sit through any concert longer than 3 hours even if I love the band but I know some people don't mind long shows.
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I mean, a bit of context: as a good ol' metalhead, I'm not terribly versed in everything about gossip and pop music. I now remember that some years ago there was this dispute about a dude upstaging a singer, it was big news, and then like everything else (other scandals of various degrees, most recently Kid Rock being punched by Will Smith for example) the world forgot and moved on.
Heh, Kid Rock is kind of punchable (not that I condone violence), but it was a different Rock.
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Is she trying to burn herself out after the third show?
Why would she burn out?
Because 44 songs is a lot of songs to sing every night for a full tour.
But it's not every night. Not counting the last week when she is doing five nights in a week in CA, she is doing weekend shows only and 2-3 per city and only one city per week, so it's not like she is doing a "33 cities in 38 nights!" kinda tour. I don't think she would have taken this on if she didn't think she could handle it, and if there is one thing that is certain about Ms. Swift, it's that she is a workaholic. She loves her craft and loves to work, so getting out there and singing for the fans all of those songs, ones you can tell she loves to pieces, is right up her alley.
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In other news, today I finally realized what Kanye West did to her at a Grammy awards defending Beyonce :lol
I mean, a bit of context: as a good ol' metalhead, I'm not terribly versed in everything about gossip and pop music. I now remember that some years ago there was this dispute about a dude upstaging a singer, it was big news, and then like everything else (other scandals of various degrees, most recently Kid Rock being punched by Will Smith for example) the world forgot and moved on.
I was never aware of Taylor Swift, I seriously couldn't name a single song from her before this thread made me curious about why prog metal fans were talking about her. I knew the name and that she was a singer, but I couldn't even probably but a face to the name. So since the Kanye West incident was long in the past, I never remembered it during my "OMG Folklore is awesome! and Evermore is great too! what a surprise!" phase, and today out of boredom (and running out of things to watch) I started the Taylor documentary she has on Netflix (Miss Americana) and I finally connected the dots. :D
welcome to 2009 I guess ;D
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Nice review:
https://archive.ph/4IxTo
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Taylor's longtime lead guitarist, Paul Sidoti, was photographed with fans before the show (he's in the middle) and look at the shirt he is wearing. :censored :censored
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrdiqwvakAAyG7f?format=jpg&name=small)
He needs to be fired immediately. :lol :biggrin:
I bet he can't even name 3 songs. :neverusethis:
Absolutely guarantee you he can.
(Although perhaps your comment was tongue in cheek.)
A friggin' DYNASTY shirt, too. That's going deep! :) :) :)
Is that girl famous? She looks very familiar (though it might be she just looks like someone famous; she's got a sort of Kristen Bell thing going on).
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In other news, today I finally realized what Kanye West did to her at a Grammy awards defending Beyonce :lol
I mean, a bit of context: as a good ol' metalhead, I'm not terribly versed in everything about gossip and pop music. I now remember that some years ago there was this dispute about a dude upstaging a singer, it was big news, and then like everything else (other scandals of various degrees, most recently Kid Rock being punched by Will Smith for example) the world forgot and moved on.
I was never aware of Taylor Swift, I seriously couldn't name a single song from her before this thread made me curious about why prog metal fans were talking about her. I knew the name and that she was a singer, but I couldn't even probably but a face to the name. So since the Kanye West incident was long in the past, I never remembered it during my "OMG Folklore is awesome! and Evermore is great too! what a surprise!" phase, and today out of boredom (and running out of things to watch) I started the Taylor documentary she has on Netflix (Miss Americana) and I finally connected the dots. :D
HAHAHAHA. :facepalm:
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Taylor's longtime lead guitarist, Paul Sidoti, was photographed with fans before the show (he's in the middle) and look at the shirt he is wearing. :censored :censored
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrdiqwvakAAyG7f?format=jpg&name=small)
He needs to be fired immediately. :lol :biggrin:
I bet he can't even name 3 songs. :neverusethis:
Absolutely guarantee you he can.
(Although perhaps your comment was tongue in cheek.)
A friggin' DYNASTY shirt, too. That's going deep! :) :) :)
Is that girl famous? She looks very familiar (though it might be she just looks like someone famous; she's got a sort of Kristen Bell thing going on).
Just a fan, I think. What's wild is that the guy on the right looks like a younger combination of Nic Cage (eyes and hair) and Tommy Shaw (his mouth).
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Just popping in to let you guys know Taylor has a feature on a track the next National album due to drop late April.
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Just popping in to let you guys know Taylor has a feature on a track the next National album due to drop late April.
that’s nice it’ll be like a new bonus track for Folklore/evermore p :P
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Just popping in to let you guys know Taylor has a feature on a track the next National album due to drop late April.
that’s nice it’ll be like a new bonus track for Folklore/evermore p :P
Just like Carolina, for example :coolio
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Eh, not sure I buy the idea that anything Taylor does with Aaron Dessner will automatically sound like a Folklore/Evermore bonus track. Carolina did for sure, but that song Renegade she did with Big Red Machine in 2021 didn't at all, and none of the songs she did with Dessner on Midnights didn't either.
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next shows in vegas tonight and tomorrow. I wonder if she’ll have a lot special guest stars like there were on the reputation tour? I know HAIM will be opening for a bunch of shows towards the end of the tour so she’ll definitely bring them out but that’s different
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I hope not. My guess is a few select openers will come out for certain songs, like HAM for No Body No Crime and/or Phoebe Bridgers for Nothing New, but I'll bet she keeps the special guests to a low roar for this tour.
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Or maybe not.
Marcus Mumford was a special guest last night at the second Vegas show.
She is killing it so far with the two rotating "surprise song" acoustic spots.
Friday - Our Song and Snow on the Beach
Saturday - Cowboy Like Me (with M. Mumford) and White Horse
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This is a GREAT watch/listen if you have 20 minutes. It's a review of one of the Vegas shows from last week from a non-fan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itzaFXwcOgM
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Meanwhile, I'm now caught up with gossip celebrities drama from years ago, and now I finally know that Taylor Swift is in a feud with Kanye West and some Kardashan, that she dropped out of the spotlight for a year after the "I made that bitch famous" incident, and she came back with an "angry" album, Reputation.
All of this was a preface to lead into my "Taylor song of the moment", Look What you Made Me Do. Wow, that song is ANGRY. Needless to say, it's the perfect song to pick for an hard rock / metal cover, and so I'm searching high and low on YouTube for the perfect version (perfect for my tastes of course).
The intro is very dramatic, and the bridge is quite addictive (But I got smarter, I got harder in the nick of time, Honey I rose up from the dead, I do it all the time....), not sold on the way the chorus is sang and it could be more melodic, but people covering that song sometime work around it. Also the "I don't trust nobody and nobody trusts me" part is quite cool, with the reprise of the melody of the intro. Great dark and "mean" song all around.
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This is a GREAT watch/listen if you have 20 minutes. It's a review of one of the Vegas shows from last week from a non-fan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itzaFXwcOgM
that was a great listen, thanks! Kind of amazing even a casual fan says it’s worth paying that much for money for this show. Though it’s funny he said it’s Vegas so he made the money back at the blackjack tables later so it ended up costing nothing, lol
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The intro is very dramatic, and the bridge is quite addictive (But I got smarter, I got harder in the nick of time, Honey I rose up from the dead, I do it all the time....), not sold on the way the chorus is sang and it could be more melodic, but people covering that song sometime work around it. Also the "I don't trust nobody and nobody trusts me" part is quite cool, with the reprise of the melody of the intro. Great dark and "mean" song all around.
I don't have any interest in discussing the feud that led to this song, but I mostly agree with your take on Look What... The main line in the chorus is pretty bland, but the rest of the song is pretty darn good. I do like the changes in the rhythm underneath each chorus, and the video is pretty great with the ending where all of the Taylors are arguing with one another, and then the Taylor from the awards shows steps up and says, "I would very much like to be excused from this narrative," which is a good way of saying, "I never wanted any part of this crap."
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So Kanye and a Kardashian is the reason Taylor Swift followed up such a great album with utter trash? Makes sense, actually.
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The intro is very dramatic, and the bridge is quite addictive (But I got smarter, I got harder in the nick of time, Honey I rose up from the dead, I do it all the time....), not sold on the way the chorus is sang and it could be more melodic, but people covering that song sometime work around it. Also the "I don't trust nobody and nobody trusts me" part is quite cool, with the reprise of the melody of the intro. Great dark and "mean" song all around.
I don't have any interest in discussing the feud that led to this song, but I mostly agree with your take on Look What... The main line in the chorus is pretty bland, but the rest of the song is pretty darn good. I do like the changes in the rhythm underneath each chorus, and the video is pretty great with the ending where all of the Taylors are arguing with one another, and then the Taylor from the awards shows steps up and says, "I would very much like to be excused from this narrative," which is a good way of saying, "I never wanted any part of this crap."
For the uninitiated, I think that is a prime example of the genius - no irony, no hyperbole - that is Taylor Swift.
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The intro is very dramatic, and the bridge is quite addictive (But I got smarter, I got harder in the nick of time, Honey I rose up from the dead, I do it all the time....), not sold on the way the chorus is sang and it could be more melodic, but people covering that song sometime work around it. Also the "I don't trust nobody and nobody trusts me" part is quite cool, with the reprise of the melody of the intro. Great dark and "mean" song all around.
I don't have any interest in discussing the feud that led to this song, but I mostly agree with your take on Look What... The main line in the chorus is pretty bland, but the rest of the song is pretty darn good. I do like the changes in the rhythm underneath each chorus, and the video is pretty great with the ending where all of the Taylors are arguing with one another, and then the Taylor from the awards shows steps up and says, "I would very much like to be excused from this narrative," which is a good way of saying, "I never wanted any part of this crap."
For the uninitiated, I think that is a prime example of the genius - no irony, no hyperbole - that is Taylor Swift.
Agreed. She took a negative and turned it into a massive positive. And even though Reputation is generally considered her revenge album, only a few of the songs are about or aimed at the dimwits who shall remain unnamed. The majority of the album is basically a lover letter to her boyfriend Joe, who she's now been with for like 7 years.
And while I try not to get crazy with the talking about her appearance stuff, as much as that red lipstick is part of her brand, she looks so much better when she goes with the softer look. Case in point: when she received the Innovator award earlier this week:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIrHts62ACQ
She looks stunning there. :heart :heart
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When a bud of mine was buying his $60 ticket, I URGED him to buy a second one. I told him, "even if you don't find someone to go, you'll be able to sell it." He was hesitant, but eventually agreed. Last week, he sold that ticket for $1,200. I think I'm owed at least a beer or something, right? :biggrin:
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What did she innovate?
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What did she innovate?
How to look hot AF in a monk's hood.
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She's definitely a looker, but imma bout to get the hose.
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What did she innovate?
I'd say "inspire" is a better word than "innovate".
She's inspired so many girls to pick up guitar, that Fender have cited most of their first-time guitar buyers are teenager girls. Figure that. And just look at all the "Taylor-esque" singer songerwriters out there these days. "Sad girl indie" owes a great deal to Taylor.
In terms of innovation, though, I don't really hear it. She's alright. She and Jack Antanoff made formative pop records, and for better or worse the Antanoff writing and production style basically defines a decade of pop (Taytay, Lorde, LDR, and many others who wear "indie" as an aesthetic). I personally don't care for it much, but again, the influence is there.
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To me, innovation and influence can be both tricky things to assess more often than not. Sometimes, both or either can be obvious, and sometimes, neither is.
In the meantime, last night's two surprise songs are both massive winners for me. Sad Beautiful Tragic is a top 10 Taylor song in my eyes, and Ours is a lovely song. She also swapped out Invisible String for The 1 in the main set, and made it clear that changes (outside of the two surprise songs slots that are different each show) will happen in the set from night to night, so that is great to see.
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When Taylor Swift scratches your setlist watch itch that Dream Theater has left unattended for a decade :heart
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Three weeks till I see her in Nashville!!
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She has 3 dates here in Tampa and the first day the parking and traffic in the area were just a huge disaster throughout the day. I was in the vicinity much earlier in the day and the traffic was already crazy, just can't imagine how it must've been right before the concert.
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She has 3 dates here in Tampa and the first day the parking and traffic in the area were just a huge disaster throughout the day. I was in the vicinity much earlier in the day and the traffic was already crazy, just can't imagine how it must've been right before the concert.
Not surprised. I expect Nashville to be crazy the weekend we are going, but we plan to get down there by mid-afternoon Friday, and then our hotel is just under a mile from the stadium, so once we get to the hotel and settled in, we can just walk or take the free trolley to the concert a few hours later. It's just a matter of how bad traffic will be just getting into Nashville earlier in the day.
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Ms. Swift in NYC last night:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ft9cQpKaYAAXwOp?format=jpg&name=large)
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Are we sure that's the real Taylor Swift and not the clone created by the illuminati deep state lizard people? Where's the massive swarm of fan girls surrounding her? Is that John Cena walking in front of her?
My wife has been listening to Speak Now a lot lately. Not a bad album. I guess that's her pop rock Avril Lavigne album? I remember when that one first came out. Everyone was making fun of her for the "gap between your teeth" line. It's still terrible, and my wife has been listening to the album so much that I'm really sick of it now, but it could be worse. Dear John is a really good song. Almost 7 minutes too. Does that mean Taylor Swift is prog? She even has a 10 minute song now! :neverusethis:
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Ms. Swift in NYC last night:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ft9cQpKaYAAXwOp?format=jpg&name=large)
She reall has that "ah, I'm a pop megastar and I got you musical prog metal nerds hooked with songs I wrote just because I couldn't go out of the house anymore" smirk on her face :D
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I have been on the "Speak Now might be her best album" train for a while now (I am sure my older posts in this thread reflect this), but I get why it's not as crazy popular as many of her other albums. It doesn't have one of her monster hits that the masses know like crazy, and stylistically it is kind of caught in the middle with country starting to fade away, the true pop stuff was still an album away, and there is quite a bit of rock, with the production being a little rough around the edges in a good way. That is why I am not looking forward to Speak Now TV like many are, as I am sure it will be all cleaned up and shiny, and that is not what Speak Now is. The dirt and grime of the original is a big part of the charm of the album.
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Ms. Swift in NYC last night:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ft9cQpKaYAAXwOp?format=jpg&name=large)
She came back stronger than a 90s trend.
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she seems okay despite the breakup
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Looks like Ms. Swift is smarter than Tom Brady, Shaq and Steph Curry. :P :P
https://www.businessinsider.com/taylor-swift-avoided-100-million-ftx-deal-with-securities-question-2023-4
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I had never read this interview/conversation between Taylor and Paul McCartney from late 2020, but it is a nice read!
https://archive.ph/Emmtn
(https://i.imgur.com/219e6Ba.jpeg)
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My sister is going to Nashville to see Taylor Swift.
That’s crazy. Traveling all the way to Nashville from Richmond for a concert. Who would do something so ridiculous.
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No reaction to an interview between McCartney (perhaps the most famous living musical artist) and Swift (perhaps the most popular current artist)? For shame, DTF. For shame.
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No reaction to an interview between McCartney (perhaps the most famous living musical artist) and Swift (perhaps the most popular current artist)? For shame, DTF. For shame.
Well, I consider McCartney to be the greatest living musician in the world right now and Taylor Swift is the greatest American artist of her generation, so I will read it, I just haven't had an opportunity yet.
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No reaction to an interview between McCartney (perhaps the most famous living musical artist) and Swift (perhaps the most popular current artist)? For shame, DTF. For shame.
Well, I consider McCartney to be the greatest living musician in the world right now and Taylor Swift is the greatest American artist of her generation, so I will read it, I just haven't had an opportunity yet.
:hat :hat
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I care about either of them about as much as I care about the color of Mike Portnoy's beard at the moment.
In fairness, that does actually amount to a little bit.
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I care about either of them about as much as I care about the color of Mike Portnoy's beard at the moment.
In fairness, that does actually amount to a little bit.
HAHA
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Just popping in to let you guys know Taylor has a feature on a track the next National album due to drop late April.
So this is out and it's a good track, not 100% sure their voices mesh that well though. I think folklore/evermore fans should enjoy it.
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The Alcott - love the song. I think their voices blend together wonderfully, just like they did on Coney Island, one of my favorites from Taylor's Evermore.
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That's a lame pose by Paul on the cover.
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I did find the vocal blend a bit jarring on Coney Island. Not sure I care for the National guy's voice.
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I did find the vocal blend a bit jarring on Coney Island. Not sure I care for the National guy's voice.
I still only know a fraction of The National's material, but based on what I've heard, his voice fits their melancholy rock style pretty well.
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My daughter always plays Taylor Swift when I drive her in to school. Soon as she gets out, I switch it to whatever I have in the CD player, which today happened to be Phil Collins. It occurred to me that Taylor is the same age now as Collins was when No Jacket Required came out.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/r0qBaBb1Y-U/sddefault.jpg)
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My daughter always plays Taylor Swift when I drive her in to school. Soon as she gets out, I switch it to whatever I have in the CD player, which today happened to be Phil Collins. It occurred to me that Taylor is the same age now as Collins was when No Jacket Required came out.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/r0qBaBb1Y-U/sddefault.jpg)
I was thinking about Phil Collins the other day (two reasons: one, the drummer list and two, his daughter Lily was a guess on The Masked Singer) and that's a sad situation. I get the reasons why - though I don't agree with them - but I can't for the life of me not understand why he's not held in the same regard as Sting, and Peter Gabriel and Bruce Springsteen and Taylor Swift. He is a WORLD CLASS drummer, he's drummed on albums by some of the greatest musicians of all time, he's a WORLD CLASS singer, WORLD CLASS writer... I don't know if this is current, but for the longest time, he was one of only three artists to sell 100 million records as part of a group and also as a solo act, along with friggin' Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson.
"No Jacket Required" - my favorite of his solo records - has become something of a symbol of the '80s and not in a good way, but once you get past Sussudio and One More Night, that is a STELLAR record, and there is some great playing on that disc.
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My daughter always plays Taylor Swift when I drive her in to school. Soon as she gets out, I switch it to whatever I have in the CD player, which today happened to be Phil Collins. It occurred to me that Taylor is the same age now as Collins was when No Jacket Required came out.
I was thinking about Phil Collins the other day (two reasons: one, the drummer list and two, his daughter Lily was a guess on The Masked Singer) and that's a sad situation. I get the reasons why - though I don't agree with them - but I can't for the life of me not understand why he's not held in the same regard as Sting, and Peter Gabriel and Bruce Springsteen and Taylor Swift. He is a WORLD CLASS drummer, he's drummed on albums by some of the greatest musicians of all time, he's a WORLD CLASS singer, WORLD CLASS writer... I don't know if this is current, but for the longest time, he was one of only three artists to sell 100 million records as part of a group and also as a solo act, along with friggin' Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson.
"No Jacket Required" - my favorite of his solo records - has become something of a symbol of the '80s and not in a good way, but once you get past Sussudio and One More Night, that is a STELLAR record, and there is some great playing on that disc.
It might hurt that Collins hasn't aged well physically, so he's kind of had to drop out of the touring scene over the last 10 years or so. But I do get the sense that he's still got a fairly solid legacy. Having the Disney success in the 90s probably helped him reach another generation. Not sure what's up with the RRHOF not recognizing him. I love No Jacket Required, and I think it is definitely his best drum performance of all of his solo albums. Just a great drumming album in general. I prefer a couple of his other solo albums overall, but it's great.
To bring this back full circle, I thought this was an odd Collins song for Taylor cover (especially since it's not a Collins original), but I guess it was more her age than some of his older stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6FXmdoGut8
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I'm sorry to be a pig, but how freakin' gorgeous is she in that video? My goodness.
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I'm sorry to be a pig, but how freakin' gorgeous is she in that video? My goodness.
That's a good moment for her, but in general, she really doesn't do anything for me.
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About halfway through, it looked like she wanted to kick that stool out of the way and dance a bit. :heart
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My daughter always plays Taylor Swift when I drive her in to school. Soon as she gets out, I switch it to whatever I have in the CD player, which today happened to be Phil Collins. It occurred to me that Taylor is the same age now as Collins was when No Jacket Required came out.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/r0qBaBb1Y-U/sddefault.jpg)
I was thinking about Phil Collins the other day (two reasons: one, the drummer list and two, his daughter Lily was a guess on The Masked Singer) and that's a sad situation. I get the reasons why - though I don't agree with them - but I can't for the life of me not understand why he's not held in the same regard as Sting, and Peter Gabriel and Bruce Springsteen and Taylor Swift. He is a WORLD CLASS drummer, he's drummed on albums by some of the greatest musicians of all time, he's a WORLD CLASS singer, WORLD CLASS writer... I don't know if this is current, but for the longest time, he was one of only three artists to sell 100 million records as part of a group and also as a solo act, along with friggin' Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson.
"No Jacket Required" - my favorite of his solo records - has become something of a symbol of the '80s and not in a good way, but once you get past Sussudio and One More Night, that is a STELLAR record, and there is some great playing on that disc.
Because his solo music became the prime example of 80's Yuppie music. It's probably a UK thing, but that American Psycho monologue seemed to suggest the sigma travelled.
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She announced Speak Now (Taylor's Version) as her next release, july 7th https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/1654697334012366849
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I need her "adult" version of Haunted right now.
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I find the song Speak Now super irritating. The lyrics are sort of clever, but the whole “I can’t believe you chose her, you know you really want to be with me” thing is so vain (it pops up in other songs of hers too). At least when the Spin Doctors do it it’s kind of in a self deprecating way.
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Today I discovered, from the same album, Better than Revenge, which is a nice rocking song even though a bit on the silly side, and for a moment I was sure she was singing "She took him faster than you could say Savatage", but it was just "sabotage" :lol
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Today I discovered, from the same album, Better than Revenge, which is a nice rocking song even though a bit on the silly side, and for a moment I was sure she was singing "She took him faster than you could say Savatage", but it was just "sabotage" :lol
Hate that one too!
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To any of the actual fans here who are considering to go see this tour, do not hesitate. Find a way to go. You will not be sorry, trust me.
I was at the Nashville concert last night, and there are no words for what we witnessed. Nearly 3 1/2 hours of the biggest current star in the music world just delivering on every level possible.
Happily, the rain, which had been predicted all week for all evening in Nashville, mostly stayed away except for some light drizzling during Phoebe Bridgers' opening set. I don't think it rained at all once Taylor hit the stage.
I have not seen yet what the exact attendance was for last night, but it was supposedly over 70,000, and to say the crowd was LOUD would be the understatement of the year. I have never witnessed a crowd that loud before, at any music or sporting event. It was wild.
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:tup
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I forgot to mention as well that last night was the first show of the tour where she did three surprise songs, as Nothing New, which she performed with Phoebe Bridgers who is now on the tour as one of the openers, was inserted into the Red set, and then there were the two normal slots for surprise songs, the first of which was Sparks Fly, which came right about the Speak Now TV announcement which made the crowd noise go nuclear, and then Teardrops on My Guitar, which I wasn't really a fan of it before since it was on the debut and is very much a country song, but her solo piano version of last night was gorgeous. The great melodies of that song really became obvious to me once the country aesthetics weren't there.
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I just can't justify over $400 for any concert. Wow, I just looked and she played 2 nights in Phoenix. Oh well, I never got to see Tom Petty and probably will never see The Offspring so my wife will just have to deal with it.
Or, maybe, she'll release another album that I actual like, and I might be more compelled to go. But still, $400. Ugh. Kev, if you're comfortable, you look pretty far away. Did you pay that much?
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I just can't justify over $400 for any concert. Wow, I just looked and she played 2 nights in Phoenix. Oh well, I never got to see Tom Petty and probably will never see The Offspring so my wife will just have to deal with it.
Or, maybe, she'll release another album that I actual like, and I might be more compelled to go. But still, $400. Ugh. Kev, if you're comfortable, you look pretty far away. Did you pay that much?
$130 a ticket with service charges. I got lucky the day of the sale and managed to get in and buy two seats for the actual price. The pics make it look farther away than we were. Yes, we were up high, but you could still see everything, the many big screens helped a lot as well, and the advantage of being up high was that we could see all the effects that were on the catwalks/two outer stages (for lack of better terms). They had really cool stuff going on there for many songs. Take pic below. Taylor and like six of her singers/dancers were on the middle stage (where they all are in this pic) on elevated platforms for Look What You Made Me Do and there were effects on both sides like big giant snakes were striking all of them. Very awesome effect (even if you don't care for the song). Anyone who was up close on the floor could not have seen any of that.
(https://i.ibb.co/NTrJQd3/IMG-1549.jpg)
Honestly, with the way this set list goes, even if there is an album you don't like, it is so well balanced that there will plenty you do if you are a fan. If you don't like Midnights, it literally takes up about 25 minutes or so. Granted, it's at the end of the show, but still, Karma was a spectacular way to end it, and a major advantage of the open stadium was the ending with the fireworks can be done in all its glory since there was no roof.
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Speaking of Look What you Made Me Do, I love the transition she does coming from Don't Blame Me.
"Don't blame me, don't blame me, don't blame me for what you made me do
Don't blame me, don't blame me, don't blame for what... you... made... me.... DO", going into the initial chord of LWYMMD and probably the heaviest moment of the entire show :D
I mean, there are transitions in DT medleys that are more jarring than this excellent flowing from one song to another.
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Speaking of Look What you Made Me Do, I love the transition she does coming from Don't Blame Me.
"Don't blame me, don't blame me, don't blame me for what you made me do
Don't blame me, don't blame me, don't blame for what... you... made... me.... DO", going into the initial chord of LWYMMD and probably the heaviest moment of the entire show :D
I mean, there are transitions in DT medleys that are more jarring than this excellent flowing from one song to another.
Yep, that was a smoooooth transition. Looks like this was from one of the earliest shows of the tour, but 1:55-2:30ish captures the transition perfectly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8PLt-KdnIw
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Folks last night got their show, but it took time, as rain and lightning delayed the start till 10:30 pm (instead of Taylor's normal start time of 8 pm). When I saw that, I thought she'd likely do an abridged set or something, but nope, she still did her entire show till past 1:30 am this morning. That is so rock and roll. :metal :metal
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Also, I guess her being ultra rich won't affect the giant curfew fee she probably had to pay :D (now I think of DT going one minute overtime at Radio City Music Hall for Score.....)
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If she's so rich, why can't she afford a complete pair of pants?
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Also, I guess her being ultra rich won't affect the giant curfew fee she probably had to pay :D (now I think of DT going one minute overtime at Radio City Music Hall for Score.....)
Well, looking at it from a monetary standpoint, what she made from last night's show minus the giant curfew fee is still way more than making nothing from last night had it been cancelled and tickets been refunded. I read a twitter feed that had a nice breakdown of the costs to put on this tour, where it was estimated that she will personally net 480 million dollars from this tour (which will double her net worth), and there are 52 shows, so that is a shade under a million per show she makes herself (after all other costs). Last night's was the 19th, so there are still 33 to go.
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Also, I guess her being ultra rich won't affect the giant curfew fee she probably had to pay :D (now I think of DT going one minute overtime at Radio City Music Hall for Score.....)
Well, looking at it from a monetary standpoint, what she made from last night's show minus the giant curfew fee is still way more than making nothing from last night had it been cancelled and tickets been refunded. I read a twitter feed that had a nice breakdown of the costs to put on this tour, where it was estimated that she will personally net 480 million dollars from this tour (which will double her net worth), and there are 52 shows, so that is a shade under a million per show she makes herself (after all other costs). Last night's was the 19th, so there are still 33 to go.
I wouldn't just assume there are curfew costs when there's an act of God like that. There still might be, but it's not a given. It's certainly not necessarily the same as DT playing, and it's 10:59 and the union guys are standing there with arms crossed and a death stare.
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It's certainly not necessarily the same as DT playing, and it's 10:59 and the union guys are standing there with arms crossed and a death stare.
"They said this was the last song but they're been playing since 10 minutes" >:(
:lol
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If she's so rich, why can't she afford a complete pair of pants?
She spent it all to put insurance on her legs :biggrin:
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Also, I guess her being ultra rich won't affect the giant curfew fee she probably had to pay :D (now I think of DT going one minute overtime at Radio City Music Hall for Score.....)
From this article (https://variety.com/2023/music/news/taylor-swift-nashville-rain-lightning-concert-delay-1235605928/), it sounds like there won't be any curfew penalty fee.
Although fans wondered whether curfews or fines might cause Swift’s set to be condensed, Nissan Stadium is city-owned and said not to be subject to the restrictions that might affect other venues
My niece and her mom were in attendance last night and said they had the time of their life, it was a night they'll never forget.
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Ah, okay, that's cool to hear. :tup :tup
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I find the song Speak Now super irritating. The lyrics are sort of clever, but the whole “I can’t believe you chose her, you know you really want to be with me” thing is so vain (it pops up in other songs of hers too). At least when the Spin Doctors do it it’s kind of in a self deprecating way.
BTW, I meant to reply to this... When playing a song from Speak Now this weekend, Taylor did mention that that album is when she first started writing some songs that were fictional (rather than about her life), with Mine and the song Speak Now being two examples.
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I find the song Speak Now super irritating. The lyrics are sort of clever, but the whole “I can’t believe you chose her, you know you really want to be with me” thing is so vain (it pops up in other songs of hers too). At least when the Spin Doctors do it it’s kind of in a self deprecating way.
BTW, I meant to reply to this... When playing a song from Speak Now this weekend, Taylor did mention that that album is when she first started writing some songs that were fictional (rather than about her life), with Mine and the song Speak Now being two examples.
Oh yeah, I assumed she didn’t actually interrupt some ex’s wedding or anything. I guess it’s the persona that grates on me mostly. I think she’s a talented songwriter, I just wish she would branch out a bit topically sometimes (which she has done on songs like “Epiphany,” which is great).
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I find the song Speak Now super irritating. The lyrics are sort of clever, but the whole “I can’t believe you chose her, you know you really want to be with me” thing is so vain (it pops up in other songs of hers too). At least when the Spin Doctors do it it’s kind of in a self deprecating way.
BTW, I meant to reply to this... When playing a song from Speak Now this weekend, Taylor did mention that that album is when she first started writing some songs that were fictional (rather than about her life), with Mine and the song Speak Now being two examples.
Oh yeah, I assumed she didn’t actually interrupt some ex’s wedding or anything. I guess it’s the persona that grates on me mostly. I think she’s a talented songwriter, I just wish she would branch out a bit topically sometimes (which she has done on songs like “Epiphany,” which is great).
She does write a lot of songs that aren't about her or her relationship, but the celebrity culture of today obsesses about celebrity relationships, so it's easy to think otherwise since her relationship songs are usually the most talked about ones.
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So as not to deluge the post a pic thread with too much Taylor talk :P, here are some fun pics and clips from the show last Saturday in Foxborough where it reportedly rained hard the entire show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HykwUsOePg
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwwZiQHWIAAIxxD?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwrmwXSagAA0OyR?format=jpg&name=small)
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Are microphones waterproof?
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Are microphones waterproof?
No, but some are built with more resistance to strong weather.
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She clearly is, though. :)
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What's funny is that if Dream Theater or one of the favorite bands here did a 3 hour and 15 minute show in driving rain and stuck it out for the fans and looked pretty happy doing it the whole time, the praise they'd get here would be borderline insane, but since only like five of us here like Taylor :lol, it's a mere afterthought. A shame, but it is what it is.
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What's funny is that if Dream Theater or one of the favorite bands here did a 3 hour and 15 minute show in driving rain and stuck it out for the fans and looked pretty happy doing it the whole time, the praise they'd get here would be borderline insane, but since only like five of us here like Taylor :lol, it's a mere afterthought. A shame, but it is what it is.
It IS a shame, but you're 100% right. We have proof of that; the keyboard show for LTE is almost legendary.
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What's funny is that if Dream Theater or one of the favorite bands here did a 3 hour and 15 minute show in driving rain and stuck it out for the fans and looked pretty happy doing it the whole time, the praise they'd get here would be borderline insane, but since only like five of us here like Taylor :lol, it's a mere afterthought. A shame, but it is what it is.
While I have no interest in TS or her music (and it's not for lack of trying), I was talking to my partner yesterday about it and was praising TS for that performance. I was labelled a Swifter afterwards, but hey, I give credit where credit is due :lol
The conversation came up because we have a 2 hour drive on Saturday, and unfortunately we have to drive through MetLife Stadium and we are already dreading the traffic we are going to encounter because of her show.
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Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9kz-tag04U Look at Lars' drums at the 20 second mark :lol They are all utterly soaked. And it's not just any old rain, it's Manchester rain!
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What's funny is that if Dream Theater or one of the favorite bands here did a 3 hour and 15 minute show in driving rain and stuck it out for the fans and looked pretty happy doing it the whole time, the praise they'd get here would be borderline insane, but since only like five of us here like Taylor :lol, it's a mere afterthought. A shame, but it is what it is.
It IS a shame, but you're 100% right. We have proof of that; the keyboard show for LTE is almost legendary.
What's sad about that now is that some bands are so addicted to everything being just right (choreography, backing tracks, etc.) that they'd be incapable of still playing a show for fans if one instrument went down and was not usable for a good part of the set.
While I have no interest in TS or her music (and it's not for lack of trying), I was talking to my partner yesterday about it and was praising TS for that performance. I was labelled a Swifter afterwards, but hey, I give credit where credit is due :lol
The conversation came up because we have a 2 hour drive on Saturday, and unfortunately we have to drive through MetLife Stadium and we are already dreading the traffic we are going to encounter because of her show.
Please let us know how driving through MetLife Stadium goes. :P
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Not that difficult, as long as you give them know ahead of time they let you drive through it :)
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What's funny is that if Dream Theater or one of the favorite bands here did a 3 hour and 15 minute show in driving rain and stuck it out for the fans and looked pretty happy doing it the whole time, the praise they'd get here would be borderline insane, but since only like five of us here like Taylor :lol, it's a mere afterthought. A shame, but it is what it is.
While I have no interest in TS or her music (and it's not for lack of trying), I was talking to my partner yesterday about it and was praising TS for that performance. I was labelled a Swifter afterwards, but hey, I give credit where credit is due :lol
The conversation came up because we have a 2 hour drive on Saturday, and unfortunately we have to drive through MetLife Stadium and we are already dreading the traffic we are going to encounter because of her show.
Whispers: I think it's Swiftie. SWIFTIE. A Swifter is for cleaning your kitchen floor. Unless of course that's exactly what your partner was calling you, which sort of fits in context! :) :) :) :) :) :)
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What's funny is that if Dream Theater or one of the favorite bands here did a 3 hour and 15 minute show in driving rain and stuck it out for the fans and looked pretty happy doing it the whole time, the praise they'd get here would be borderline insane, but since only like five of us here like Taylor :lol, it's a mere afterthought. A shame, but it is what it is.
While I have no interest in TS or her music (and it's not for lack of trying), I was talking to my partner yesterday about it and was praising TS for that performance. I was labelled a Swifter afterwards, but hey, I give credit where credit is due :lol
The conversation came up because we have a 2 hour drive on Saturday, and unfortunately we have to drive through MetLife Stadium and we are already dreading the traffic we are going to encounter because of her show.
Whispers: I think it's Swiftie. SWIFTIE. A Swifter is for cleaning your kitchen floor. Unless of course that's exactly what your partner was calling you, which sort of fits in context! :) :) :) :) :) :)
Don't be coy. You KNOW it's 'Swiftie'. About time you came out properly.
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What's funny is that if Dream Theater or one of the favorite bands here did a 3 hour and 15 minute show in driving rain and stuck it out for the fans and looked pretty happy doing it the whole time, the praise they'd get here would be borderline insane, but since only like five of us here like Taylor :lol, it's a mere afterthought. A shame, but it is what it is.
While I have no interest in TS or her music (and it's not for lack of trying), I was talking to my partner yesterday about it and was praising TS for that performance. I was labelled a Swifter afterwards, but hey, I give credit where credit is due :lol
The conversation came up because we have a 2 hour drive on Saturday, and unfortunately we have to drive through MetLife Stadium and we are already dreading the traffic we are going to encounter because of her show.
Whispers: I think it's Swiftie. SWIFTIE. A Swifter is for cleaning your kitchen floor. Unless of course that's exactly what your partner was calling you, which sort of fits in context! :) :) :) :) :) :)
Don't be coy. You KNOW it's 'Swiftie'. About time you came out properly.
HAHA, busted!!! :)
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What's funny is that if Dream Theater or one of the favorite bands here did a 3 hour and 15 minute show in driving rain and stuck it out for the fans and looked pretty happy doing it the whole time, the praise they'd get here would be borderline insane, but since only like five of us here like Taylor :lol, it's a mere afterthought. A shame, but it is what it is.
Also, this Eras tour is the Octavarium tour concept taken to the extreme. MP conjured up a setlist in chronological order, with a song, max 2, per album, Taylor has entire acts, sets within the set, for each album. And each night she plays one or two surprise songs different from every show - imagine being in the middle of a DT show not knowing before hand if it would be Petrucci with an acoustic guitar or Jordan at the piano joining James for an acoustic song always different from night to night (like the Dramatic tour where they would play one night two piano songs, and the other night two acoustic guitar songs).
Anyway, in case people wonder how the instruments survive in the pouring rain, someone on Reddit investigated about it, it's the first comment and the most voted (https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/13o80r9/what_happens_to_taylors_instrumentsall_the_other/).
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What's funny is that if Dream Theater or one of the favorite bands here did a 3 hour and 15 minute show in driving rain and stuck it out for the fans and looked pretty happy doing it the whole time, the praise they'd get here would be borderline insane, but since only like five of us here like Taylor :lol, it's a mere afterthought. A shame, but it is what it is.
Also, this Eras tour is the Octavarium tour concept taken to the extreme. MP conjured up a setlist in chronological order, with a song, max 2, per album, Taylor has entire acts, sets within the set, for each album. And each night she plays one or two surprise songs different from every show - imagine being in the middle of a DT show not knowing before hand if it would be Petrucci with an acoustic guitar or Jordan at the piano joining James for an acoustic song always different from night to night (like the Dramatic tour where they would play one night two piano songs, and the other night two acoustic guitar songs).
Anyway, in case people wonder how the instruments survive in the pouring rain, someone on Reddit investigated about it, it's the first comment and the most voted (https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/13o80r9/what_happens_to_taylors_instrumentsall_the_other/).
This isn't new territory. The Rolling Stones did a huge show in... I think it was Buenos Aires, on the beach, and they played to something like 500,000 people. The crowd was so deep along the beach they had to put computer sequencers on the sound system so the delay didn't get out of hand.
And since it was a one-off and they were going to be both filming and recording, as well as bringing half a million people in to the area, they had all kinds of precautions taken. I imagine that rather than night of the show mitigations, these just happen between shows.
Don't get me wrong, it was fantastic that she did that, but I don't think - technology-wise - this was the equivalent of going to Mars or anything like that.
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Still pretty interesting to read about that kind of behind the scenes stuff, though.
Notable as well that while her set list is broken up into eras, she is not doing them in chronological or reverse chronological order. She has 10 studio albums and the order is:
7
2
9
6
3
4
8
5
surprise songs
10
Even though I am not a fan, the debut not getting its own era slot is still a little surprising, although she has already played a bunch from that in the surprise songs section, and I am sure she will hit all or most of the rest before the tour is finished in August. My guess is still that not having a regular fiddle player in her touring band anymore is why more songs from the 00s aren't a part of the regular set. For a tour like this, Our Song (a song from the debut I do like a lot) would have slayed in the regular set, and the crowd would have screamed that one every night, but it was not to be.
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FYI, a new version of Midnights was released today, with the main features being:
-A remix of Karma with rapper Ice Spice (hard pass for me)
-Hits Different (that was originally on just the Target version, I think; this is a good rock song)
-Snow on the Beach featuring more Lana Del Rey lead vocals (Taylor heard the fans wishing Lana would have sang more on the original, so they went back in and did a new version with more Lana)
There is also a new song that will be available on just the CDs being sold at the NJ shows this weekend. I suspect that song will find its way online sooner rather than later, and eventually be officially uploaded to streaming sites.
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^^ My daughter and I were talking about that yesterday. I asked her to pick up a copy when she's at the show, and she's going to try, but I can imagine people buying 10 or more and then they're on eBay by Sunday afternoon. I think she's great with the little things she does for her fans, but I think it can get out of hand pretty quickly. Midnight hasn't been out for more than, what, six months? I suppose it's not any different than if she released a CD single or an EP, and you can argue that this is more value - getting the whole original album to boot - but cost has to be a factor, and asking what is likely a younger audience to continually buy multiple copies of each album to get all the songs...
I know, I know, no one is putting a gun to anyone's head here, and I get that. But as a completist for many of the bands I listen to - DT is one - let's just say I'm having reservations. :)
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No, no, I get it. I will argue to the pain that she is an artist in the truest sense of the word, but she is also a smart businesswoman who loves to maximize profits and dominate the charts. And she has figured out a way to blend the two worlds together, so props to her. To harken back to the rain show thing, if Dream Theater or Rush or Maiden was releasing new version of songs like this along the way, we'd all be eating it up, so I think how much someone appreciates or is aggravated by this is correlated by how much of a fan one is of said artist, IMO. :)
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Okay, I just looked and the good news is that the three new songs are all available to buy individually on iTunes. So yeah, because I have the album already, there is no need for me to buy the whole thing again, so I can get the new Snow on the Beach and Hits Different for $1.29 each. :coolio :coolio
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What's funny is that if Dream Theater or one of the favorite bands here did a 3 hour and 15 minute show in driving rain and stuck it out for the fans and looked pretty happy doing it the whole time, the praise they'd get here would be borderline insane, but since only like five of us here like Taylor :lol, it's a mere afterthought. A shame, but it is what it is.
Not a huge fan, but clearly what Taylor and Beyonce are doing this year in terms of touring is outstanding. Respect for both.
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The new version of Snow on the Beach is better than the original! I'll consider it the official version from now on.
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No, no, I get it. I will argue to the pain that she is an artist in the truest sense of the word, but she is also a smart businesswoman who loves to maximize profits and dominate the charts. And she has figured out a way to blend the two worlds together, so props to her. To harken back to the rain show thing, if Dream Theater or Rush or Maiden was releasing new version of songs like this along the way, we'd all be eating it up, so I think how much someone appreciates or is aggravated by this is correlated by how much of a fan one is of said artist, IMO. :)
Honestly, I wrote that and sort of thought the same thing that you wrote. No argument and I'm with you. I do have a LITTLE problem with any artist that sort of makes you pick a format, though. To this day, I'm cheesed that I can get HALF the initial Iron Maiden EP, The Soundhouse Tapes, on CD, but the other half is only available on 12" vinyl. And some of it was sympathy for my daughter. :) :) :) :)
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Snow on the Beach is one of the better songs on Midnights. I still don't like the line "weird but fuckin beautiful", but I'm glad it's that and not what I originally thought that made me cringe: "weirdly fuckin beautiful".
Lana Del Rey does have a nice voice when she actually sings and isn't doing the drunk open mic night thing, but I can take or leave the new version. I've never heard the original with headphones so I don't know how different it really is.
I like the addition of the little hums in the chorus on the new one.
Sometimes she can be really wordy with her lyrics that ruins the flow. Not on this song, maybe almost, but there was another song my wife was listening to, and she was just saying way too much to fit in each stanza.
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Not a huge fan, but clearly what Taylor and Beyonce are doing this year in terms of touring is outstanding. Respect for both.
:tup :tup
The new version of Snow on the Beach is better than the original! I'll consider it the official version from now on.
I think both are good. I don't see the new version as replacing the original in my digital version of the album, but I like having it.
Getting a clean version of Hits Different is nice. I had that song stuck in my head all day yesterday.
On the flip side, the remix of Karma with the rapper was a complete waste of time. Having one verse of her singing replaced with someone talking their way through a verse and having it sound totally out of place was a complete and total misfire.
No, no, I get it. I will argue to the pain that she is an artist in the truest sense of the word, but she is also a smart businesswoman who loves to maximize profits and dominate the charts. And she has figured out a way to blend the two worlds together, so props to her. To harken back to the rain show thing, if Dream Theater or Rush or Maiden was releasing new version of songs like this along the way, we'd all be eating it up, so I think how much someone appreciates or is aggravated by this is correlated by how much of a fan one is of said artist, IMO. :)
Honestly, I wrote that and sort of thought the same thing that you wrote. No argument and I'm with you. I do have a LITTLE problem with any artist that sort of makes you pick a format, though. To this day, I'm cheesed that I can get HALF the initial Iron Maiden EP, The Soundhouse Tapes, on CD, but the other half is only available on 12" vinyl. And some of it was sympathy for my daughter. :) :) :) :)
Well, I do all of my listening now via iTunes and uploading my HQ mp3s from iTunes to everything, so it is easy for me to cobble "my version" of an album together digitally to come up with the best listening experience for me personally, but I totally get how it can be frustrating.
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Kid said it was the best concert experience she's ever had last night at Giant Stadium (MetLife, whatever the fuck). And she's seen Taylor twice before.
I got an incognito pic of Lin-Manuel Miranda, and Mariska Hargitay sat a couple seats away from her. Apparently both were there. :) She talked to Lin-Manuel, which is, in hindsight, somewhat creepy, since my daughter is 22, but I don't know if she talked to Mariska (who I have said before in the TV thread, I think is getting more and more attractive as she gets older).
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Nice!
I know Mariska Hargitay was at the Nashville Saturday show (the day after my show), but cool to see she is hitting other shows as well. I know she is a fan, and Taylor obviously named one of her cats after her character on SVU. :lol
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Below is a fun little moment from this past weekend where her mic malfunctioned and stopped working. Great job by Ms. Swift as always in taking it in stride and having a little fun with it.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2u-k-NhRdmo
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Because I know some are missing seeing this thread...:P :lol
It's interesting that her next single will be Cruel Summer, which is from 2019's Lover. It's not unheard of for a song to be a single years after its original release, but it's definitely not the norm. It was always a song that had monster single written all over it, so this is a better late than never situation, especially since I don't see any of the other songs from Midnights as having monster single potential, following Anti-Hero, which is probably her biggest hit ever now; seven months later, it is still hovering around the top 10 and getting played all the time on the modern music station we usually having playing at work (although I do my best to turn on the 80s or classic rock stations since I am one of the four with access to the app :lol).
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one of those "about damn time" scenarios yeah
the conspiracy theorist in me thinks this was poised to be a big summer 2020 smash but then covid happened and they just scrapped it entirely
then it just got popular again by sheer force of being. y'know, incredibly good
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one of those "about damn time" scenarios yeah
the conspiracy theorist in me thinks this was poised to be a big summer 2020 smash but then covid happened and they just scrapped it entirely
then it just got popular again by sheer force of being. y'know, incredibly good
There are rumors that there will be a video as well, and it would be awesome if it was one that was shot years ago, but held in reserve because of how the Lover tour got cancelled due to the pandemic and promotion of the album truncated. Once she started writing Folklore, there was no need to keep promoting Lover at the time. But yeah, I would imagine Cruel Summer originally was pegged for a single release in the summer of 2020.
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lmao i just got linked this
https://twitter.com/PopBase/status/1670240556004548609
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Oh wow, her surprise songs tonight were:
Seven (with Aaron Dessner, who made a special appearance)
The Story of Us (quite possibly, my favorite song of hers, which is also one of her most rocking songs)
That's just unfair. :lol :lol
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TAC, pg1067, and I have no idea who Aaron Dessner is.
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I didn't know who Aaron Dessner was until about 2 1/2 years ago myself. His main band, The National, has some songs I like, but I have had a difficult time really digging into a lot of it. I think the combo of him and Taylor works well because he is great at writing melancholy, laid back music, and her biggest strengths are writing lyrics and melodies. Granted, she has shown over time that she doesn't need anyone else to write songs, but working with Dessner allowed her to explore different moods and styles that might not have on her own. That is the beauty of collaboration.
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Saturday's show in Minneapolis. Floor tickets being sold (on Stubhub) for $13,270 per ticket.
mind = blown.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzPFJO-agAEQidX?format=jpg&name=medium)
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Yeah, but you can get tickets up top for just under a grand!
I will reiterate that I think being elevated for this show is better, as it allows you to see everything. If you are on the floor, you won't see any of the effects on the secondary stages or on the platform that raises numerous times (including when she first appears). A lot of cool stuff going on there.
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And since this got bumped, international dates for 2024 were announced this week, so get your passports ready!! :biggrin: :biggrin:
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And since this got bumped, international dates for 2024 were announced this week, so get your passports ready!! :biggrin: :biggrin:
She plays in Milan (more than) one year from now, at the stadium.
I already know I'm not gonna go in the end, the price is gonna be insane, but if by cosmic chance or luck I stumble upon a ticket in whatever reason.... I'd be all over the Folkore and Evermore sets, plus enjoying the other songs here and there that I like!
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And since this got bumped, international dates for 2024 were announced this week, so get your passports ready!! :biggrin: :biggrin:
She plays in Milan (more than) one year from now, at the stadium.
I already know I'm not gonna go in the end, the price is gonna be insane, but if by cosmic chance or luck I stumble upon a ticket in whatever reason.... I'd be all over the Folkore and Evermore sets, plus enjoying the other songs here and there that I like!
:tup :tup
I hope you can find a way to go! I know chatter about this either gets eye rolls or ignored by most here, but it really is a concert experience unlike anything else you will ever witness. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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no canadian dates announced, very disappointing. Not sure what the reason is, the Reputation tour had a 2 night stand Toronto so I expected that at least.
edit: I guess there could be a second north american leg later in 2024 or 25 but I assumed the point of doing multiple nights in each city is to NOT do that.
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no canadian dates announced, very disappointing. Not sure what the reason is, the Reputation tour had a 2 night stand Toronto so I expected that at least.
edit: I guess there could be a second north american leg later in 2024 or 25 but I assumed the point of doing multiple nights in each city is to NOT do that.
I think playing multiple nights in each city was because of the demand, plus the tour was set up to do one city per week, so doing 2-3 shows in each city, most of them on just the weekend, was just the smart move. The way it has played out has been so fun to follow. Monday hits and its on to a new city, and it's fun to read the stories and tweets from people in that week's city as the anticipation builds throughout the week towards the weekend and the shows.
I was a bit surprised to see no Canadian dates either, but it's impossible to go everywhere. There is 2-month gap between Singapore and France in the late winter/early spring, so I do wonder if something will be added there. And the last stops are in the UK in the middle of August, so there is always the possibility of fall dates somewhere.
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Wow, Minneapolis won big time with last night's two surprise songs, Dear John and Daylight, the latter of which works way better when played by Taylor by herself on the piano.
As because I know there are others here who are fans, here is a running tally of the surprise songs that Taylor plays by herself at each show so far this year...
Guitar is always first, piano second, except where indicated.
Glendale, AZ night 1: Mirrorball and Tim McGraw
Glendale, AZ night 1: This Is Me Trying and State of Grace
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Our Song and Snow on the Beach
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Cowboy Like Me (w/ special guest Marcus Mumford) and White Horse
Arlington, TX night 1: Sad Beautiful Tragic and Ours
Arlington, TX night 2: Death by a Thousand Cuts and Clean
Arlington, TX night 3: Jump Then Fall and The Lucky One
Tampa, FL night 1: Speak Now and Treacherous
Tampa, FL night 2: The Great War (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and You're On Your Own, Kid
Tampa, FL night 3: Mad Woman (piano - w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mean (guitar)
Houston, TX night 1: Wonderland and You're Not Sorry
Houston, TX night 2: A Place in This World and Today Was a Fairytale
Houston, TX night 2: Begin Again and Cold As You
Atlanta, GA night 1: The Other Side of the Door and Coney Island
Atlanta, GA night 2: High Infidelity and Gorgeous
Atlanta, GA night 2: I Bet You Think About Me and How You Get the Girl
Nashville, TN night 1: Sparks Fly and Teardrops on My Guitar
Nashville, TN night 2: Out of the Woods and Fifteen
Nashville, TN night 3: Wouldve, Could've, Should've (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mine
Philadelphia, PA night 1: Gold Rush and Come Back...Be Here
Philadelphia, PA night 2: Forever & Always and This Love
Philadelphia, PA night 3: Hey Stephen and The Best Day
Foxborough, MA night 1: Should've Said No and Better Man
Foxborough, MA night 2: Question...? and Invisible
Foxborough, MA night 3: I Think He Knows and Red (both on guitar, since her piano malfunctioned due to rain from previous night)
East Rutherford, NJ night 1: Getaway Car (w/ special guest Jack Antonoff) and Maroon
East Rutherford, NJ night 2: Holy Ground and False God
East Rutherford, NJ night 3: Welcome to New York and Clean (the only repeat thus far)
Chicago, IL night 1: I Wish You Would and The Lakes
Chicago, IL night 2: You All Over Me (w/ special guest Maren Morris) and I Don't Wanna Live Forever
Chicago, IL night 3: Hits Different and The Moment I Knew
Detroit, MI night 1: Haunted and I Almost Do
Detroit, MI night 2: All You Had to Do Was Stay and Breathe
Pittsburgh, PA night 1: Mr. Perfectly Fine and The Last Time
Pittsburgh, PA night 2: Seven (piano w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and The Story of Us (guitar)
Minneapolis, MN night 1: Paper Rings and If This Was a Movie
Minneapolis, MN night 2: Dear John and Daylight
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surprised she hasn’t done Cornelia Street yet (unless I’m mistaken I read kinda fast). Speaks to the depth of the catalog
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Seeing written like that, it shows how insane this undertaking is.
Sure, "a couple of acoustic songs" every night seems like a minor thing, but when you see how many songs she pulls out for one-offs on top of playing other 42 songs every night..... wow!
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15 shows still to go in the US, so 30 more songs to go in the surprise slots! Cornelia Street on the guitar seems like a given at some point, similar to how she did it at the Lover Paris show (that versions tramples the studio version). She doesn't seem to be avoiding the pro-Joe songs since the breakup - she played Gorgeous, which was literally about what she thought about him the first time she saw him - so I figure that is a given at some point. I think it goes without saying that No Body, No Crime will be played at the shows where HAIM is opening, although I would imagine that will be worked into the Evermore set rather than being a surprise song, similar to how Nothing New was inserted into the Red set at the shows where Phoebe Bridgers opened. And I am still waiting to see if Justin Vernon makes an appearance or two so they can do Exile and Evermore.
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Not a fan of Taylor's music so much but I don't know how anyone can't respect the effort she's putting into this tour. I've had a few co workers go to some of the shows and I've heard nothing but glowing reviews. Her fans are having to deal with lots of ticket bs so it's good to see her giving all she can.
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Not a fan of Taylor's music so much but I don't know how anyone can't respect the effort she's putting into this tour. I've had a few co workers go to some of the shows and I've heard nothing but glowing reviews. Her fans are having to deal with lots of ticket bs so it's good to see her giving all she can.
I have said it before and I will say it again: she is THE most fan-friendly musician I have ever seen, bar none. She used to invite select fans over to her house for listening parties before the release of albums and would bake them fresh chocolate chip cookies herself. Who else does that?? (that is just one of many examples)
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Not a fan of Taylor's music so much but I don't know how anyone can't respect the effort she's putting into this tour. I've had a few co workers go to some of the shows and I've heard nothing but glowing reviews. Her fans are having to deal with lots of ticket bs so it's good to see her giving all she can.
I have said it before and I will say it again: she is THE most fan-friendly musician I have ever seen, bar none. She used to invite select fans over to her house for listening parties before the release of albums and would bake them fresh chocolate chip cookies herself. Who else does that?? (that is just one of many examples)
That's amazing. Here I was thinking my favorite band Metallica was the most fan friendly. But Lars hasn't baked me shit lol. I have a friend whose wife used to work concert event's for the country radio station she worked for. She's met all the top country acts and said she was by far the nicest one.
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Not a fan of Taylor's music so much but I don't know how anyone can't respect the effort she's putting into this tour. I've had a few co workers go to some of the shows and I've heard nothing but glowing reviews. Her fans are having to deal with lots of ticket bs so it's good to see her giving all she can.
I have said it before and I will say it again: she is THE most fan-friendly musician I have ever seen, bar none. She used to invite select fans over to her house for listening parties before the release of albums and would bake them fresh chocolate chip cookies herself. Who else does that?? (that is just one of many examples)
That's amazing. Here I was thinking my favorite band Metallica was the most fan friendly. But Lars hasn't baked me shit lol. I have a friend whose wife used to work concert event's for the country radio station she worked for. She's met all the top country acts and said she was by far the nicest one.
Yep, yep, by all accounts, she is a total sweetheart. I think it was early in her career when she drove to a Nashville record store where fans were waiting for it to open to buy her CD that was coming out that day (back when we all still bought physical CDs :lol) and hung out with them outside the store while they all waited for it to open and then ended up hanging there for much of the day talking to the fans and signing stuff, just for the fun of it for both her and the fans. When you hear stuff like that, it's easy to figure out why her fans love her so much.
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Saw this on reddit, cracked me up, no idea if it's real.
(https://i.redd.it/6y5bxlszm99b1.jpg)
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The glasses are a nice touch...
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Update...
Guitar is always first, piano second, except where indicated.
Glendale, AZ night 1: Mirrorball and Tim McGraw
Glendale, AZ night 1: This Is Me Trying and State of Grace
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Our Song and Snow on the Beach
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Cowboy Like Me (w/ special guest Marcus Mumford) and White Horse
Arlington, TX night 1: Sad Beautiful Tragic and Ours
Arlington, TX night 2: Death by a Thousand Cuts and Clean
Arlington, TX night 3: Jump Then Fall and The Lucky One
Tampa, FL night 1: Speak Now and Treacherous
Tampa, FL night 2: The Great War (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and You're On Your Own, Kid
Tampa, FL night 3: Mad Woman (piano - w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mean (guitar)
Houston, TX night 1: Wonderland and You're Not Sorry
Houston, TX night 2: A Place in This World and Today Was a Fairytale
Houston, TX night 2: Begin Again and Cold As You
Atlanta, GA night 1: The Other Side of the Door and Coney Island
Atlanta, GA night 2: High Infidelity and Gorgeous
Atlanta, GA night 2: I Bet You Think About Me and How You Get the Girl
Nashville, TN night 1: Sparks Fly and Teardrops on My Guitar
Nashville, TN night 2: Out of the Woods and Fifteen
Nashville, TN night 3: Wouldve, Could've, Should've (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mine
Philadelphia, PA night 1: Gold Rush and Come Back...Be Here
Philadelphia, PA night 2: Forever & Always and This Love
Philadelphia, PA night 3: Hey Stephen and The Best Day
Foxborough, MA night 1: Should've Said No and Better Man
Foxborough, MA night 2: Question...? and Invisible
Foxborough, MA night 3: I Think He Knows and Red (both on guitar, since her piano malfunctioned due to rain from previous night)
East Rutherford, NJ night 1: Getaway Car (w/ special guest Jack Antonoff) and Maroon
East Rutherford, NJ night 2: Holy Ground and False God
East Rutherford, NJ night 3: Welcome to New York and Clean (the only repeat thus far)
Chicago, IL night 1: I Wish You Would and The Lakes
Chicago, IL night 2: You All Over Me (w/ special guest Maren Morris) and I Don't Wanna Live Forever
Chicago, IL night 3: Hits Different and The Moment I Knew
Detroit, MI night 1: Haunted and I Almost Do
Detroit, MI night 2: All You Had to Do Was Stay and Breathe
Pittsburgh, PA night 1: Mr. Perfectly Fine and The Last Time
Pittsburgh, PA night 2: Seven (piano w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and The Story of Us (guitar)
Minneapolis, MN night 1: Paper Rings and If This Was a Movie
Minneapolis, MN night 2: Dear John and Daylight
Cincinnati, OH night 1: I'm Only Me When I'm with You and Evermore
Cincinnati, OH night 2: Ivy (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner), I Miss You, I'm Sorry (guitar also w/ special guest Gracie Abrams) and Call It What You Want (first show to get three songs in the surprise songs "eras" section)
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Saw this pop up in my YT feed: "Metal Guitarist sees Taylor Swift live for the first time"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQk0PQn-WB0&ab_channel=BecomeTheKnight
While I mostly agree with his thoughts on her music being pretty 'meh', I gotta say the weather conditions around that Nashville show definitely seem really crazy. Not sure if I feel impressed they went through with the show considering the weather, or if it was really stupid but I'm sure at the very least those conditions made the show memorable. For good or bad. Never had any crazy storms like that here thankfully. :p
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I don't subscribe to the "rain shows are a special event" mentality that some of her fans do, but to do the whole show though weather like that is not something all musicians would do.
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I don't subscribe to the "rain shows are a special event" mentality that some of her fans do, but to do the whole show though weather like that is not something all musicians would do.
Going to a rain show sounds horrific, but if the performer and the crowd can make something of it, more power to 'em.
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Going to a rain show sounds horrific, but if the performer and the crowd can make something of it, more power to 'em.
Even better when they can get around it, as I saw they started last night's show an hour early (which was announced early in the day). Looks like rain was expected to hit that area hard around 11 pm or so, and her set has been going from 8 pm - 11:15 pm-ish, so by going on at 7, she was done before 10:30. Wise move.
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I don't subscribe to the "rain shows are a special event" mentality that some of her fans do, but to do the whole show though weather like that is not something all musicians would do.
Going to a rain show sounds horrific, but if the performer and the crowd can make something of it, more power to 'em.
I guess it's good for memories but sucks for the experience.
I was very annoyed that it rained during (most of) my Metallica concert on the Hardwired tour, having to wear a raincoat for the whole evening and feeling limited in movements with the ground dirty.
But now, years after the event, I look back and remember Creeping Death with red lights and rain pouring down? fuck yeah that was apocalyptic :metal
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I have been considering trying to get a last minute ticket for the Saturday KC concert this week, as I would love to see this show again, and St Louis to Arrowhead is literally about a 4-hour drive and a straight shot on I-70 (I live five minutes from I-70), but prices just aren't coming down. Right now, the cheapest ticket on Stubhub for this weekend is $1,283.00. :eek :eek
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https://twitter.com/justintrudeau/status/1676761275483734020?s=46&t=LEHmPJPF1j9Ww7YDAWaMpw
I swear I didn’t hack the prime minister’s twitter account :P he did that all by himself
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Why would anyone want to go to Canada? :lol :P
It is an extra kick in the nuts to Canadiens that 14 more international shows were added yesterday for 2024, yet Canada still has nada. It sucks, I know, but it's impossible to go everywhere.
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It is an extra kick in the nuts to Canadiens that 14 more international shows were added yesterday for 2024, yet Canada still has nada.
One of them is a second date for Milan! double occasion to sneak in somehow :lol
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It is an extra kick in the nuts to Canadiens that 14 more international shows were added yesterday for 2024, yet Canada still has nada.
One of them is a second date for Milan! double occasion to sneak in somehow :lol
Sounds like some real vigilante shit, so if you get caught, you're on your own. kid.
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My Niece's two favorite acts are Taylor and Paramore. Paramore have just been announced as the support act for Taylor in European - This is a sliding doors moment for my Sister, secure tickets and she'll be the greatest Mum in the world, miss out and her daughter will disown her ;D
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Tell her good luck...because she is gonna need it. :lol :lol :lol
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So, Speak Now (Taylor's Version) is out.
Went straight to listen to Haunted :D the original version was a bit "heavier" and had the guitars more "in your face"...
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I will dive into it later, but I will reiterate that the charm of the original is the old school rock feel. The production had a bit of dirt and grime in the right places, and that added so much character. I have a feeling TV will have a cleaner production, but will lose a bit of the character. Looking forward to the Vault tracks the most.
And it looks confirmed that she did change the one lyric in the chorus of Better Than Revenge. I wish she hadn't, but it's her music and she can do what she wants with it. I have always thought that was her most petulant song :lol, but she was 18 when she wrote it.
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I think she was always going to change that lyric in Better Than Revenge and she did. I’m ok with the change. The original lyric really isn’t Taylor’s style these days.
I’ve given the whole album one listen. A few tracks I like more but some original versions have a certain charm that is missing now.
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And it looks confirmed that she did change the one lyric in the chorus of Better Than Revenge. I wish she hadn't, but it's her music and she can do what she wants with it. I have always thought that was her most petulant song :lol, but she was 18 when she wrote it.
It's so corny but it's also catchy and it's a guilty pleasure :lol I know people seem to favor The Story of Us, but I can't get into that song. I know Better for Revenge is a lame teenager song but I can't help but like it :lol "she took him faster than you can say Savatage" :metal
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I think she was always going to change that lyric in Better Than Revenge and she did. I’m ok with the change. The original lyric really isn’t Taylor’s style these days.
I’ve given the whole album one listen. A few tracks I like more but some original versions have a certain charm that is missing now.
That is true, but....this is a not a new album; it's a re-recording, and I thought the goal was to make them as close to as possible like the originals. That lyric, for better or for worse, WAS Taylor's style in the late 00s. I took issue with Roine Stolt re-writing the past on the newer Flower Kings remasters/remixes, and this feels like the same thing. And again, it is her music, and she can do whatever she wants with it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. ;) Also, that one lyric change in Better Than Revenge likely won't bother me at all, but it's just the idea. Not a big deal in the grand scheme. :tup :tup
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It's so corny but it's also catchy and it's a guilty pleasure :lol I know people seem to favor The Story of Us, but I can't get into that song. I know Better for Revenge is a lame teenager song but I can't help but like it :lol "she took him faster than you can say Savatage" :metal
The original The Story of Us still might be my favorite Taylor song. It's certainly the one I listen to the most, as it rocks and is all kinds of fun. I just love the groove, and the way she drops her voice with the last two words of this line in the chorus ("when it all broke down") is still one of the greatest hooks of all time, IMO. I am curious to see if she is able to nail it as effectively on TV.
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The Story of Us is great. That is a really cool song.
I think the thing about the original album is that it really rocks. The drums, bass and guitar are great and really prominent in the mix. On TV the production is more subdued and it doesn’t rock as hard.
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I like Speak Now. My hot take: her songwriter doesn't really improve from Speak Now.
The production gets poppier, the accolades she receives become greater, the veneer of self-importance she carries about herself slathers on another thick layer with each release until we get to the almost insufferable moment we are at now. But as a songwriter and lyricist, she doesn't really get better.
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The Story of Us is great. That is a really cool song.
I think the thing about the original album is that it really rocks. The drums, bass and guitar are great and really prominent in the mix. On TV the production is more subdued and it doesn’t rock as hard.
I have to admit to being extremely disappointed with TV of The Story of Us. It isn't nearly as lively as the original, and Taylor just doesn't have that youthful chirpiness in her voice anymore that made the original version so special. Don't get me wrong, I love the way her voice sounds now when singing her new material, but it's just not possible to sing songs the same way she did when she originally sang them as a teenager.
I like Speak Now. My hot take: her songwriter doesn't really improve from Speak Now.
The production gets poppier, the accolades she receives become greater, the veneer of self-importance she carries about herself slathers on another thick layer with each release until we get to the almost insufferable moment we are at now. But as a songwriter and lyricist, she doesn't really get better.
As much as I love Folklore and Evermore, I think I am far enough away from being a new fan now to where I am comfortable saying that Speak Now and Red are 1a and 1b when it comes to her best albums ever.
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I will dive into it later, but I will reiterate that the charm of the original is the old school rock feel. The production had a bit of dirt and grime in the right places, and that added so much character. I have a feeling TV will have a cleaner production, but will lose a bit of the character. Looking forward to the Vault tracks the most.
And it looks confirmed that she did change the one lyric in the chorus of Better Than Revenge. I wish she hadn't, but it's her music and she can do what she wants with it. I have always thought that was her most petulant song :lol, but she was 18 when she wrote it.
Hah, my daughter knows I hate that lyric and she came running up the stairs this morning to tell me she'd changed it.
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I will dive into it later, but I will reiterate that the charm of the original is the old school rock feel. The production had a bit of dirt and grime in the right places, and that added so much character. I have a feeling TV will have a cleaner production, but will lose a bit of the character. Looking forward to the Vault tracks the most.
Haven't listened to the TV yet, but when I revisited the original a few years ago, I found it to be pretty badly brickwalled and hard to listen to for the full run. If the master on the TV is not so hot, then I'll be happy.
I might still consider this her best album. One great track after another.
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For anyone interested, here is the transcript below of her letter to the fans regarding Speak Now. Say what you want about her, but she has such a way with words.
"When I think back on the Speak Now album, I get a lump in my throat. I have a feeling it will always be that way, because this period of time was so vibrantly aglow with the last light of the setting sun of my childhood. I made this album, completely self-written, between the ages of 18 and 20. I've spoken about how I feel like those ages are the most emotionally turbulent ones in a person's life. May be when I say that, I'm really just talking about myself.
I think they might just be the most idealistic, hopeful years too. At this point in my life, I had released my second album, Fearless. It became the breakthrough moment I'd always dreamt of, one that catapulted my career to new realms of success. It had brought with it a tidal wave of pressures and pitfalls and growing pains. All the while, I was encountering the milestones and checkpoints of normal teenage growth. I had cataclysmic crushes and brushes with heartache. I moved out of my parents' house and set my bags down in a new apartment. I hung photos on my own walls and decorated the space where I would sob and cackle and shatter and dream. Sometimes I felt like a grown-up, but a lot of the time I just wanted to time travel back to my childhood bed, where my mom would read stories to me until I fell asleep.
In my darkest moments, I was tormented by the doubts that swirled loudly around my ascent and my merits as an artist. I was trying to create a follow up to the most awarded country album in history while staring directly into the face of intense criticism. I had been widely and publicly slammed for my singing voice and was first encountering the infuriating question that is unfortunately still lobbed at me to this day: does she really write her songs? Spoiler alert: I really, really do.
In the years since, I've developed a thicker skin about public criticism and the cynicism with which people approach the music I make. At that time, it leveled me. I had these voices in my head telling me that I had the perfect chance and I blew it. I hadn't been good enough. I had given it all I had and been found wanting.
I wanted to get better, to challenge myself, and to build on my skills as a writer, an artist, and a performer. I didn't want to just be handed respect and acceptance in my field. I wanted to earn it. To try and confront these demons, I underwent extensive vocal training and made a decision that would completely define this album: I decided I would write it completely on my own. I figured, they couldn't give all the credit to my co-writers if there weren't any. But that proved a new challenge: It really had to be good. If it wasn't, I would be proving my critics right.
I had no idea how much this pain would shape me. That this was the beginning of my series of creative choices made by reacting to setbacks with defiance. That my stubbornness in the face of doubters and dissenters would become my coping mechanism through my entire career from that point forward. This exact pattern of exacting my form and rebellion when I feel broken is exactly why you're reading these very words, and I'm re-releasing this album now.
I went through my first worldwide scandal (the mic-grab seen around the world). I experienced the weirdness of trying to get to know a boy while a swarm of paparazzi surrounds the car. Media contacting my publicist for an official statement on why two teenagers broke up. These are weird experiences to have any any age, but even more surreal when you're 19.
I had the nagging sense that in the most intense moments of my life, I had frozen. I had said nothing publicly. I still don't know if it was out of instinct, not wanting to seem impolite, or just overwhelming fear. But I made sure to say it all in these songs. I decided to call the album Speak Now. It was a play on the "speak now or forever hold your peace" moment in weddings, but for me it symbolized a chance to respond to the chatter and commentary around my own life.
Some of these emotional revelations were surprising to people. Some expected anger and instead got compassion and empathy with "Innocent." Some expected a kiss-off breakup song but instead got a hand-on-heart apology, "Back to December." It was an album that was the most precious to me because of its vast extremes. It was unfiltered and potent. In my mind, the saddest song I've ever written is "Last Kiss." My most scathing is "Dear John" and my most wistfully romantic is "Enchanted."
I'll be forever proud of setting a goal and seeing it through. I'll always feel shivers all over when I remember singing "Long Live" to close the show every night on tour. The outstretched hands of those bright and beautiful faces of the fans. Their support was like an open palm that reached out and helped me up off the ground when others were, frankly, mean.
These days I make my choices for those people, the ones who thought I had been good enough all along. I try to speak my mind when I feel strongly, in the moment I feel it. I'm still idealistic and earnest about the music I make, but I'm less crushed when people mock me for it.I know now that one of the bravest things a person can do is create something with unblinking sincerity, to put it all on the line. I still sometimes wish I was a little kid again in a tiny bed, before I ever grew up.
I always looked at this album as my album, and the lump in my throat expands to a quivering voice when I say this. Thanks to you, dear reader, it finally will be.
I consider this music to be, along with your faith in me, the best thing that's ever been mine."
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"Media contacting my publicist for an official statement on why two teenagers broke up" is really striking.
Also, she seems to know how far some of the most "devoted" fans go, I've read that in a concert she said something along the lines of "you don't need to defend me from someone you think I wrote a song about 14 billions years ago", which is probably coded for "ok, I've seen you all wanting to burn down Jake Gyllenhall's house last time around, please don't go after whoever I wrote the Speak Now songs about so many years after the fact" :D
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Yep, that message was clear, and she said it super nicely and without mentioning John Mayer by name.
Also, KC got a real treat last night, as Long Live was added to the Speak Now set. :coolio :coolio
And she released a new video from the From the Vault track, I Can See You:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVkKLf4DCn8
We need more rock-influenced songs like this from Taylor. :tup :tup
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Yup, I've heard it and my first thought was "can't wait for a rock remix of this".
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I have seen some really good rock covers of her non-rock songs on YT. It shows how well her songs translate from genre to genre. This one of Mirrorball is really nice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPUh6zLKsFA
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I thought it was fun to make jokes or memes about Jake G when Red (Taylor’s Version) came out but some people always take it too far
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I thought it was fun to make jokes or memes about Jake G when Red (Taylor’s Version) came out but some people always take it too far
The funny part is fans are so up in arms over the Better Than Revenge lyric change that I have barely seen any John Mayer jokes. What's even funnier is that I saw the charts of most-listened-to songs yesterday on iTunes and Spotify and whatnot, and Better That Revenge was near the top, and I cannot imagine that would have been the case otherwise, so the lyric change seemingly boosted the plays the song received. That Taylor, she is so smart. :lol :lol
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I don't know that I am so familiar with the nuances of the original recordings to truly pick up on the differences, but I enjoyed the TV version yesterday...always a good excuse to revisit Speak Now anyway. It is indeed a great album.
I thought the tracks from the vault were good too. I Can See You is clearly one that already "crossed over" a bit (I'm sure thanks to the production too). The duet with Hayley Williams on Castles Crumbling is another highlight and I kinda enjoyed the Train-esque vibe of When Emma Falls in Love.
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I'm a fan but i got to say i found Speak now to be the weakest of the re-records.
I LOVED Fearless most. that version opened that album up to me.
Red TV was worth it for the vault disc.
I didn't need the red Main album re-record cause to me the original was perfection(and yes i get WHY she's doing these projects again, lol)
The Speak now. I love the original. this version i just felt nothing for and don't ask me why.
i haven't even been able to finish it yet. i get about half through and i'm just done.
Taylor's hit or miss for me anyway so no biggie. Maybe Midnights pissed me off so much i'm just taylor'ed out (HATE that album :lol
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I like Speak Now. My hot take: her songwriter doesn't really improve from Speak Now.
The production gets poppier, the accolades she receives become greater, the veneer of self-importance she carries about herself slathers on another thick layer with each release until we get to the almost insufferable moment we are at now. But as a songwriter and lyricist, she doesn't really get better.
Her pop years are so fucking hit and miss for me.
1989 is got some great stuff on it but most songs involve just 1 word word or phrase repeated for a hook over and over and over (Think Born in the USA. the 2 albums are similar in that way)
Reputation. This is where i thought she just careened into her own asshole. I like certain things. Getaway Care. Delicate, King of my Heart, New Years Day, Dress. Most of that's the 2nd half the first half of that record? Mostly awful.
Lover. Her best pop album album. and it may be unpopular but i will die on that hill.
I loved Folklore and Evermore. she started getting back to the raw acoustic based stuff and i LOVE it.
Midnights..........sigh........back to her own ego and problems and it sucks. i hate it. some of her worst lyrics too.
god that album feels like falling back into bad habits.
I cannot stress what utter pap i think Midnights is. And she keeps ADDING on to it!!!!, lol
My hot take. She peaked Artistically (not commercially.....difference) with Red. Everything else has been........good music but not a patch on Fearless-Red. Folklore and Evermore being exceptional detours.
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I made the observation to a friend a while back that most of my favorite bands/artists have that one album that I really like despite not having a single song I would put among my very favorites by the band. A View...by Dream Theater, Adam and Eve by Flower Kings, Ki by Devin Townsend, etc. For Taylor and me, Midnights is that album, although this applies to the proper album only, as it seems like most of my favorites now were not on the main disc (The Great War, Would've Could've Should've, Hits Different).
My original thought was that Reputation was overproduced, but I have grown to really love most of that album. What can I say, I manage to find myself listening to it quite often lately. I still think parts were overcooked (King of My Heart was a good written song, but it feels like it was choked into submission by that damn vocoder vocal effect), but the songs are there. Delicate, Don't Blame Me, Getaway Car and Call It What You Want are all among my favorite TS songs now, and even though the style is normally not my thing, I cannot help but love ...Ready for It?
Lover is a good album, with quite a few really good/great songs, but something just felt slightly off with it as a whole. It's like she was going for an eclectic vibe, similar to how Red had all kinds of variety stylistically, but it just doesn't land as well. It could have been a great 12-track album, had some of the fat been cut off, starting with that atrocious track 1.
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Speak Now is probably my least favorite of the TS albums I’ve heard, but I haven’t really heard much from before this one.
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Long Live was added to the Speak Now set at both shows this week. Will be interesting to see if it remains for the remainder of the tour.
Update...
Guitar is always first, piano second, except where indicated.
Glendale, AZ night 1: Mirrorball and Tim McGraw
Glendale, AZ night 1: This Is Me Trying and State of Grace
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Our Song and Snow on the Beach
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Cowboy Like Me (w/ special guest Marcus Mumford) and White Horse
Arlington, TX night 1: Sad Beautiful Tragic and Ours
Arlington, TX night 2: Death by a Thousand Cuts and Clean
Arlington, TX night 3: Jump Then Fall and The Lucky One
Tampa, FL night 1: Speak Now and Treacherous
Tampa, FL night 2: The Great War (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and You're On Your Own, Kid
Tampa, FL night 3: Mad Woman (piano - w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mean (guitar)
Houston, TX night 1: Wonderland and You're Not Sorry
Houston, TX night 2: A Place in This World and Today Was a Fairytale
Houston, TX night 2: Begin Again and Cold As You
Atlanta, GA night 1: The Other Side of the Door and Coney Island
Atlanta, GA night 2: High Infidelity and Gorgeous
Atlanta, GA night 2: I Bet You Think About Me and How You Get the Girl
Nashville, TN night 1: Sparks Fly and Teardrops on My Guitar
Nashville, TN night 2: Out of the Woods and Fifteen
Nashville, TN night 3: Wouldve, Could've, Should've (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mine
Philadelphia, PA night 1: Gold Rush and Come Back...Be Here
Philadelphia, PA night 2: Forever & Always and This Love
Philadelphia, PA night 3: Hey Stephen and The Best Day
Foxborough, MA night 1: Should've Said No and Better Man
Foxborough, MA night 2: Question...? and Invisible
Foxborough, MA night 3: I Think He Knows and Red (both on guitar, since her piano malfunctioned due to rain from previous night)
East Rutherford, NJ night 1: Getaway Car (w/ special guest Jack Antonoff) and Maroon
East Rutherford, NJ night 2: Holy Ground and False God
East Rutherford, NJ night 3: Welcome to New York and Clean (the only repeat thus far)
Chicago, IL night 1: I Wish You Would and The Lakes
Chicago, IL night 2: You All Over Me (w/ special guest Maren Morris) and I Don't Wanna Live Forever
Chicago, IL night 3: Hits Different and The Moment I Knew
Detroit, MI night 1: Haunted and I Almost Do
Detroit, MI night 2: All You Had to Do Was Stay and Breathe
Pittsburgh, PA night 1: Mr. Perfectly Fine and The Last Time
Pittsburgh, PA night 2: Seven (piano w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and The Story of Us (guitar)
Minneapolis, MN night 1: Paper Rings and If This Was a Movie
Minneapolis, MN night 2: Dear John and Daylight
Cincinnati, OH night 1: I'm Only Me When I'm with You and Evermore
Cincinnati, OH night 2: Ivy (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner), I Miss You, I'm Sorry (guitar also w/ special guest Gracie Abrams) and Call It What You Want (first show to get three songs in the surprise songs "eras" section)
Kansas City, MO night 1: Never Grow Up and When Emma Falls in Love
Kansas City, MO night 2: Last Kiss and Dorothea
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So being exposed to Taylor Swift for years and getting the Chinese water torture treatment by my wife, I'll give my quick thoughts that most of you have already been subjected to.
Debut: my wife doesn't really play this one all that much anymore, but it's very country oriented which isn't my thing. That being said, it's inoffensive music that I can tolerate.
Fearless: my wife was playing this a lot a few months ago. Some songs I remember, most I don't.
Speak Now: pretty good. She was listening to the original a lot before TV was released, then listened to Lana Del Rey way too fucking much which made me miss TS. We live in BFE, so when she drives, she gets music choice. We're not in CHANGE IT! territory yet. So since I've gotten to listen to most of this album several times against my will, I've become a little familiar with it. With Taylor's Version, there is a lack of conviction in her voice, and on some songs she sounds straight up bored.
Red: another good album. Dare I say great. I'm tired of the singles, but they aren't cringe worthy or anything.
1989: almost a 10/10. Yeah, Shake it Off's bridge is a tad embarrassing, but the song that really brings this album down is Bad Blood. Fuck that song. I can't believe she thought that song was acceptable...
... Reputation: but then I heard this album. What the actual fuck? How do you go from some of the best pop music to shit smeared all over a gas station bathroom? I hate this album with all of my being.
Lover: while it's not as bad as Reputation, it's still pretty bad. A lot of cringe.
Folklore/Evermore : tolerable stuff. I can't remember at the moment if these albums have any ear bleeding cringe moments so that's good I guess. I'm quite sick of both overall though. If it's not my wife it's the radio at work.
Midnights: stereotypical Taylor Swift. Some songs are really annoying. Anti Hero isn't that great. At this point, in my opinion, she really is going through the motions. And stop swearing. It doesn't sound good. It definitely isn't affective at conveying an emotion. She just sounds like she just discovered these words, and is being edgy.
My wife would be really surprised that I know all TS albums in order. Unless I forgot one. I don't think I did though.
And so far, none of the re-recordings are better than the originals. Some things she did worse, like that fake laugh at the end of Stay Stay Stay. Pretty impressive that her band was able to play the songs again exactly how they were. Most bands that rerecord can never capture that original sound. Or they don't give a shit like the Goo Goo Dolls when they rerecorded Name.
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Folklore/Evermore : tolerable stuff. I can't remember at the moment if these albums have any ear bleeding cringe moments so that's good I guess. I'm quite sick of both overall though. If it's not my wife it's the radio at work.
Out of curiosity, what songs from these albums do you still hear on the radio at work? I ask, because the modern music station plays at mine pretty often, and Willow is the only song from those two albums that still gets played (and pretty often). Could be just that particular station. Thankfully, I have yet to hear the remix of Karma with that rapper that she did a few months back played on the radio at work.
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They might be two of her most lauded albums but my goodness, every tune sounds the same as the next to me.
So UK tickets go on sale next Monday. I guess I'll give it a go. But I think there might actually be a better chance of me winning the lottery.
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They might be two of her most lauded albums but my goodness, every tune sounds the same as the next to me.
So UK tickets go on sale next Monday. I guess I'll give it a go. But I think there might actually be a better chance of me winning the lottery.
i'm a huge fan of both but i can agree.
Actually most of her stuff sounds the same. even her pop albums songs recycle melodies ALL the time.
but i don't see that as a huge problem...it's how she wtites.
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I agree about the swearing in Midnights BTW. Sounds like a kid who just learned to swear.......stop it!!!!!
Did i mention i hate Midnights? :lol
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Whether they are solo writes or co-writes, it appears as if she writes most of her songs on just piano or guitar, meaning she gets it all finished (alone or has a co-writer help her finalize the arrangement or make a lyric more concise) with the lyrics, melodies and arrangement all ready to bring into the studio, where it is then produced for the records. I suspect that is why her material translates so well across so many styles/genres and why it is easy for her to play them live by herself.
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Just heard Mine TV. That one was pretty damn close. Had to ask which version it was.
Folklore/Evermore : tolerable stuff. I can't remember at the moment if these albums have any ear bleeding cringe moments so that's good I guess. I'm quite sick of both overall though. If it's not my wife it's the radio at work.
Out of curiosity, what songs from these albums do you still hear on the radio at work? I ask, because the modern music station plays at mine pretty often, and Willow is the only song from those two albums that still gets played (and pretty often). Could be just that particular station. Thankfully, I have yet to hear the remix of Karma with that rapper that she did a few months back played on the radio at work.
Cardigan, the one with that dude with the deep voice, and I think one more. I forgot what Willow sounds like so that one might get played. Then I hear Mine, Antihero, and there are some days it's like she paid the station to play her stuff every half hour.
Back to December TV is really good too. Maybe she got bored halfway through recording some of these.
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Just heard Mine TV. That one was pretty damn close. Had to ask which version it was.
Folklore/Evermore : tolerable stuff. I can't remember at the moment if these albums have any ear bleeding cringe moments so that's good I guess. I'm quite sick of both overall though. If it's not my wife it's the radio at work.
Speak Now TV has been my least fav re-Record. and BTW.....i adore the original album. But i've yet to finish the new version and it's been 3 days. she sounds so bored. and a lot of times it sounds like she's trying to mimic her younger self vocally. Something she did not on Fearless or Red.
So i'm confused here but Speak now TV is by far my least fav Re-record. easily.
Out of curiosity, what songs from these albums do you still hear on the radio at work? I ask, because the modern music station plays at mine pretty often, and Willow is the only song from those two albums that still gets played (and pretty often). Could be just that particular station. Thankfully, I have yet to hear the remix of Karma with that rapper that she did a few months back played on the radio at work.
Cardigan, the one with that dude with the deep voice, and I think one more. I forgot what Willow sounds like so that one might get played. Then I hear Mine, Antihero, and there are some days it's like she paid the station to play her stuff every half hour.
Back to December TV is really good too. Maybe she got bored halfway through recording some of these.
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Zook, I get why one might think she sounds bored, but I think it's a case of singing differently now than she did then. I think I made this point before, but a lot of her early career singing would be like whack-a-mole for professional singing teachers to point out the flaws in her technique, but the combination of her emotion and her youthful exuberance made it work most of the time. When singing that material now, she is no longer hitting certain words or phrases with the same flawed (and charming) delivery; she is singing it in a more proper way, and because it may sound less "shouty" for lack of a better term, it is naturally going to sound a bit subdued in relative terms, if that makes sense. Plus, I notice she really put more emphasis on enunciating certain words more this time around. I had forgotten that the word "terribly" was in the chorus of Haunted, but she enunciates it so clearly this time that it is impossible to miss. And the "I think her ever present frown is a little troubling" line in Better Than Revenge is a lot different as well with regards to the word "troubling." In the original, her youthful voice sang that word in an almost sassy way, but this time, it is a more matured delivery, and you can feel every syllable of the word. Whether it is better or not is up to each listener, but I am just articulating some differences I have noticed thus far.
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I'm just glad her voice (as far as I know) had matured by the time she recorded 1989, so hopefully it won't be too noticable.
My wife uses Tidal, so the rerecordings are the only versions on there. I have TS on my phone, but I rarely go for her music. I hear it so much already.
Will she be rerecording Reputation and Lover or are those on the new label? Cause if she does, I'm gonna have to hear that shit for a while again. My wife goes back to those albums periodically, but thankfully not as often as the others.
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Lover was the first on the new label, so TV of Reputation is still coming.
Brace yourself now. :lol :lol :biggrin: :biggrin:
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(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/uWidJou3gtHb8E2CuSul7A--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTEyMDA7aD02NzU-/https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2020-03/9a3c9200-6937-11ea-afdd-ff0016c54b4d)
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Is that a Star Wars meme? I don't like Star Wars, but it almost looks like something along those lines. :lol
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Is that a Star Wars meme? I don't like Star Wars, but it almost looks like something along those lines. :lol
Indeed it is, in this picture Darth Vader (masked guy) received bad news and he's screaming "NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!".
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Is that a Star Wars meme? I don't like Star Wars, but it almost looks like something along those lines. :lol
Indeed it is, in this picture Darth Vader (masked guy) received bad news and he's screaming "NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!".
Note to self: Text Kev to let him know that TAC hijacked his DTF account...
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:lol :lol :lol
What can I say, I am not a fan of Star Wars at all.
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Update...
Guitar is always first, piano second, except where indicated.
Glendale, AZ night 1: Mirrorball and Tim McGraw
Glendale, AZ night 1: This Is Me Trying and State of Grace
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Our Song and Snow on the Beach
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Cowboy Like Me (w/ special guest Marcus Mumford) and White Horse
Arlington, TX night 1: Sad Beautiful Tragic and Ours
Arlington, TX night 2: Death by a Thousand Cuts and Clean
Arlington, TX night 3: Jump Then Fall and The Lucky One
Tampa, FL night 1: Speak Now and Treacherous
Tampa, FL night 2: The Great War (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and You're On Your Own, Kid
Tampa, FL night 3: Mad Woman (piano - w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mean (guitar)
Houston, TX night 1: Wonderland and You're Not Sorry
Houston, TX night 2: A Place in This World and Today Was a Fairytale
Houston, TX night 2: Begin Again and Cold As You
Atlanta, GA night 1: The Other Side of the Door and Coney Island
Atlanta, GA night 2: High Infidelity and Gorgeous
Atlanta, GA night 2: I Bet You Think About Me and How You Get the Girl
Nashville, TN night 1: Sparks Fly and Teardrops on My Guitar
Nashville, TN night 2: Out of the Woods and Fifteen
Nashville, TN night 3: Wouldve, Could've, Should've (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mine
Philadelphia, PA night 1: Gold Rush and Come Back...Be Here
Philadelphia, PA night 2: Forever & Always and This Love
Philadelphia, PA night 3: Hey Stephen and The Best Day
Foxborough, MA night 1: Should've Said No and Better Man
Foxborough, MA night 2: Question...? and Invisible
Foxborough, MA night 3: I Think He Knows and Red (both on guitar, since her piano malfunctioned due to rain from previous night)
East Rutherford, NJ night 1: Getaway Car (w/ special guest Jack Antonoff) and Maroon
East Rutherford, NJ night 2: Holy Ground and False God
East Rutherford, NJ night 3: Welcome to New York and Clean (the only repeat thus far)
Chicago, IL night 1: I Wish You Would and The Lakes
Chicago, IL night 2: You All Over Me (w/ special guest Maren Morris) and I Don't Wanna Live Forever
Chicago, IL night 3: Hits Different and The Moment I Knew
Detroit, MI night 1: Haunted and I Almost Do
Detroit, MI night 2: All You Had to Do Was Stay and Breathe
Pittsburgh, PA night 1: Mr. Perfectly Fine and The Last Time
Pittsburgh, PA night 2: Seven (piano w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and The Story of Us (guitar)
Minneapolis, MN night 1: Paper Rings and If This Was a Movie
Minneapolis, MN night 2: Dear John and Daylight
Cincinnati, OH night 1: I'm Only Me When I'm with You and Evermore
Cincinnati, OH night 2: Ivy (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner), I Miss You, I'm Sorry (guitar also w/ special guest Gracie Abrams) and Call It What You Want (first show to get three songs in the surprise songs "eras" section)
Kansas City, MO night 1: Never Grow Up and When Emma Falls in Love
Kansas City, MO night 2: Last Kiss and Dorothea
Denver, CO night 1: Picture to Burn and Timeless
Denver, CO night 2: Starlight and Back to December
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By the way, listened to the 3 AM version of Midnights yesterday with my daughter: Would've, Could've, Should've. Holy mackerel.
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By the way, listened to the 3 AM version of Midnights yesterday with my daughter: Would've, Could've, Should've. Holy mackerel.
Yep, the 3AM version is THE version, as far as I'm concerned. I get that the main batch was the main batch for a reason (concept and all), but the bonus tracks are really, really good. Would've..., but also The Great War, Bigger Than The Whole Sky are as good as anything on the album proper, imo
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I actually made my own personal running order of Midnights for myself (15 songs), which kept 9 of the songs from the normal CD, 4 of the 3 am song, and then both Hits Different (which I put as track 1; Lavender Haze is one that got the axe) and You're Losing Me*. I don't dislike anything that didn't make the cut, but they weren't as essential.
But yeah, Would've, Could've, Should've is a devastatingly good song.
*I am waiting for You're Losing Me to be released officially to where I can buy the HQ MP3, so for now, my YouTube to MP3 rip will have to do. The bridge in that song is one of her best.
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I actually made my own personal running order of Midnights for myself (15 songs), which kept 9 of the songs from the normal CD, 4 of the 3 am song, and then both Hits Different (which I put as track 1; Lavender Haze is one that got the axe) and You're Losing Me*. I don't dislike anything that didn't make the cut, but they weren't as essential.
But yeah, Would've, Could've, Should've is a devastatingly good song.
*I am waiting for You're Losing Me to be released officially to where I can buy the HQ MP3, so for now, my YouTube to MP3 rip will have to do. The bridge in that song is one of her best.
Can you post it? :)
(You axed Lavender Haze, huh? I do like that one a fair bit...)
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Can you post it? :)
(You axed Lavender Haze, huh? I do like that one a fair bit...)
I like Lavender Haze, but I don't have to have it.
My playlist running order is:
01 Hits Different
02 Maroon
03 Anti-Hero
04 Snow on the Beach
05 You're On Your Own, Kid
06 The Great War
07 Bigger Than the Whole Sky
08 Question...?
09 Vigilante Shit
10 Bejeweled
11 Labyrinth
12 Karma
13 Would've, Could've, Should've
14 Dear Reader
15 You're Losing Me
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This is nice...the only thing, for me, I would almost certainly have Lavender Haze in place of Vigilante Shit...
And I don't think I've heard You're Losing Me yet.
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And I don't think I've heard You're Losing Me yet.
It's worth it just for the bridge (that begins around 3:18). The simple chorus of "stop, you're losing me" seemed boring to me at first, but it grew on me. I just wish they hadn't used effects on her voice for it, rather layering it to make for naturally sounding harmonies, but Antonoff loves that damn vocoder effect. :censored :censored It's not officially uploaded yet, but some have uploaded it to YT, so it's easy to find.
This is nice...the only thing, for me, I would almost certainly have Lavender Haze in place of Vigilante Shit...
I thought Vigilante Shit was boring as heck at first, but Taylor's delivery totally makes it worthwhile.
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And I don't think I've heard You're Losing Me yet.
It's worth it just for the bridge (that begins around 3:18). The simple chorus of "stop, you're losing me" seemed boring to me at first, but it grew on me. I just wish they hadn't used effects on her voice for it, rather layering it to make for naturally sounding harmonies, but Antonoff loves that damn vocoder effect. :censored :censored It's not officially uploaded yet, but some have uploaded it to YT, so it's easy to find.
Where was the song originally included? I guess there is another edition of Midnights somewhere? :)
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This is nice...the only thing, for me, I would almost certainly have Lavender Haze in place of Vigilante Shit...
I thought Vigilante Shit was boring as heck at first, but Taylor's delivery totally makes it worthwhile.
We're long overdue a rock / metal cover or remix of that song and I'm surprised no one thought about it yet. People "metalized" way poppier songs off the album....
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And I don't think I've heard You're Losing Me yet.
It's worth it just for the bridge (that begins around 3:18). The simple chorus of "stop, you're losing me" seemed boring to me at first, but it grew on me. I just wish they hadn't used effects on her voice for it, rather layering it to make for naturally sounding harmonies, but Antonoff loves that damn vocoder effect. :censored :censored It's not officially uploaded yet, but some have uploaded it to YT, so it's easy to find.
Where was the song originally included? I guess there is another edition of Midnights somewhere? :)
It was released the weekend of the NJ concerts (I think), and it was a new edition that had a different track order and had You're Losing Me as the new song from the Midnights era included. It was promoted as being just for those attending the concerts to buy that weekend, but like how Hits Different was Target-exclusive for six months, just give it time and this will be available officially to everyone.
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It was released the weekend of the NJ concerts (I think), and it was a new edition that had a different track order and had You're Losing Me as the new song from the Midnights era included. It was promoted as being just for those attending the concerts to buy that weekend, but like how Hits Different was Target-exclusive for six months, just give it time and this will be available officially to everyone.
This must be the one:
https://www.discogs.com/release/27193104-Taylor-Swift-Midnights-The-Late-Night-Edition
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It was released the weekend of the NJ concerts (I think), and it was a new edition that had a different track order and had You're Losing Me as the new song from the Midnights era included. It was promoted as being just for those attending the concerts to buy that weekend, but like how Hits Different was Target-exclusive for six months, just give it time and this will be available officially to everyone.
This must be the one:
https://www.discogs.com/release/27193104-Taylor-Swift-Midnights-The-Late-Night-Edition
Yep, that's it. I know some were puzzled as to why two of the 3 am tracks were left off this version (Paris and Glitch), but I stopped trying to figure out her rhyme or reason for how she does these multiple editions. :lol
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Interesting...
Also interesting that, going by TS store, the digital version of the 3am edition is more expensive than the til dawn edition, despite the latter having all songs on the former plus a few more...unless I'm missing something? (I probably am :biggrin:)
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Re-read my previous post. :P
Spoiler: the til dawn edition does not have Paris and Glitch, two of the 3 am tracks, that are on every other edition.
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I thought the version you were referring to was the "Late Night" edition, which only exists (for now) as an exclusive CD sold at shows (not digital yet)...the one sold on TS store is the Til Dawn version:
https://store.taylorswift.com/products/midnights-the-til-dawn-edition-digital-album
(i.e. the one that has the additional bonus tracks that were originally Target exclusives). This one does have Paris and Glitch (based on the cover, at least), plus everything else, and it's cheaper than the 3am version:
https://store.taylorswift.com/collections/all/products/midnights-3am-edition-digital-album
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See, now my head hurts. :lol :lol
I can't keep all of this straight. I just stockpile them in my iTunes under the Midnights label and make it easy on myself.
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See, now my head hurts. :lol :lol
I can't keep all of this straight. I just stockpile them in my iTunes under the Midnights label and make it easy on myself.
It's all part of a masterplan that we can't quite comprehend yet :lol
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See, now my head hurts. :lol :lol
I can't keep all of this straight. I just stockpile them in my iTunes under the Midnights label and make it easy on myself.
It's all part of a masterplan that we can't quite comprehend yet :lol
Well, I am sure it is all by design, being that she is a mastermind. :P
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Well played, I was pretty sure you wouldn’t disappoint :)
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Haha. Only three cities left on the US tour, and it is a shame to see it coming to an end. It has been a fun tour to follow on Twitter to see what the surprise songs are each weekend and what funny little moments happen. I enjoyed this past weekend where she accidently sang "myspace" instead of "my face" in the Bejeweled bridge, and you could then hear her trying not to laugh at herself for the next 5-10 seconds while continuing to sing. :lol :lol
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Bought Speak Now (Taylor’s Version). I’ve never heard the original album so I went in totally blind and I really enjoyed it. I don’t think I’d even heard Enchanted before, but now it’s probably my favorite of her songs, it’s an absolutely fantastic song!
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https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-bonus-eras-tour-truck-drivers-1235383095/amp/
a job on the eras tour seems like good work if you can get it, holy crap!
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https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-bonus-eras-tour-truck-drivers-1235383095/amp/
a job on the eras tour seems like good work if you can get it, holy crap!
She's such a fucking champ.
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Apparently the bonuses cover over $55 million USD for everyone. Jeez
https://people.com/taylor-swift-gives-bonuses-totaling-55-million-every-person-working-eras-tour-7568556
I read that her current tour is projected to earn $1.4 Billion USD becoming the highest tour earnings and the first to cross the Billion mark.
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and she finally came through for Canada, 6(!) nights in Toronto in november 2024
https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/1687102339931574272?s=46&t=LEHmPJPF1j9Ww7YDAWaMpw
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and yes I’m trying to register for the presale right now while at work, lol
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Some Miami dates added too, which apparently you can start buying tickets next Wednesday for shows 14 months away. Wow.
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last night was the final gig of this first leg of Eras tour, started all the way back in march! Also she announced 1989 Taylor’s Version as the next release on October 27th
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I got waitlisted for the Miami shows. Checked on stubhub, nosebleeds are going for min $1k. Guess my 8 year is not going to be seeing her next year.
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last night was the final gig of this first leg of Eras tour, started all the way back in march! Also she announced 1989 Taylor’s Version as the next release on October 27th
She's really pumping them out one after another, isn't it?
Anyway, it makes sense. They're re-recordings, they're not brand new albums, no need to take 5 years or more to do it, especially since the whole point is to actually earn profits from these albums.
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I got waitlisted for the Miami shows. Checked on stubhub, nosebleeds are going for min $1k. Guess my 8 year is not going to be seeing her next year.
I got the waitlist for toronto dates too , booh!
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last night was the final gig of this first leg of Eras tour, started all the way back in march! Also she announced 1989 Taylor’s Version as the next release on October 27th
She's really pumping them out one after another, isn't it?
Anyway, it makes sense. They're re-recordings, they're not brand new albums, no need to take 5 years or more to do it, especially since the whole point is to actually earn profits from these albums.
And all she has left now are her name and her reputation!!! :) :) :)
(The only two albums she hasn't re-recorded are her debut, "Taylor Swift" and "Reputation").
I'm really pumped for 1989; that's my favorite album of hers, and I think "Wildest Dreams" and "New Romantics" are two of her best songs.
Harry Styles just followed her on Instagram (this info is fresh from my daughter) so there are rumblings that he's on there somewhere (many of the songs on 1989 are allegedly about him).
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lit took me ridiculously long to realize there is literally a song called STYLE (a fairly big hit too) on 1989 :facepalm:
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lit took me ridiculously long to realize there is literally a song called STYLE (a fairly big hit too) on 1989 :facepalm:
I am pretty sure I’d never heard of Harry Styles or their relationship until long after that album was out.
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So, a while back, my daughter started playing Taylor Swift's songs around the house. I gotta admit, at first I was kinda skeptical – I mean, I'm a middle-aged guy and I've always been into rock and stuff like that.
But you know what? Slowly but surely, Taylor's music started growing on me. The more I listened, the more I realized just how talented she is. The way she weaves stories into her songs is something else. It's like she's able to capture feelings and experiences that resonate with people of all ages.
And you know what album really did it for me? "Folklore." Man, that album is a whole vibe. The mellow tunes, the introspective lyrics – it's just a masterpiece. It's crazy how music can bring generations together. Here I am, jamming out to Taylor Swift alongside my daughter, and it's become this little bonding thing for us.
So yeah, consider me a fan now. Never thought I'd say that about a pop artist, but Taylor's music has a way of breaking down barriers.
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So, a while back, my daughter started playing Taylor Swift's songs around the house. I gotta admit, at first I was kinda skeptical – I mean, I'm a middle-aged guy and I've always been into rock and stuff like that.
But you know what? Slowly but surely, Taylor's music started growing on me. The more I listened, the more I realized just how talented she is. The way she weaves stories into her songs is something else. It's like she's able to capture feelings and experiences that resonate with people of all ages.
And you know what album really did it for me? "Folklore." Man, that album is a whole vibe. The mellow tunes, the introspective lyrics – it's just a masterpiece. It's crazy how music can bring generations together. Here I am, jamming out to Taylor Swift alongside my daughter, and it's become this little bonding thing for us.
So yeah, consider me a fan now. Never thought I'd say that about a pop artist, but Taylor's music has a way of breaking down barriers.
i was actually vibing really hard with this until i saw her live a few weeks ago. i found her on-stage persona to be really fake in a cringey way. i'm not trying to troll or anything, i am a pretty decent fan of her music, i loved folklore + evermore, etc. ever since the show though i haven't had much of a desire to listen to her because i found her stage antics pretty off-putting
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So, a while back, my daughter started playing Taylor Swift's songs around the house. I gotta admit, at first I was kinda skeptical – I mean, I'm a middle-aged guy and I've always been into rock and stuff like that.
But you know what? Slowly but surely, Taylor's music started growing on me. The more I listened, the more I realized just how talented she is. The way she weaves stories into her songs is something else. It's like she's able to capture feelings and experiences that resonate with people of all ages.
And you know what album really did it for me? "Folklore." Man, that album is a whole vibe. The mellow tunes, the introspective lyrics – it's just a masterpiece. It's crazy how music can bring generations together. Here I am, jamming out to Taylor Swift alongside my daughter, and it's become this little bonding thing for us.
So yeah, consider me a fan now. Never thought I'd say that about a pop artist, but Taylor's music has a way of breaking down barriers.
This. My kid and I were already close, but this brought us together, and was a real bonding thing between her and her step mother. The three of us regularly "trade" music now, and it's fun.
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So, a while back, my daughter started playing Taylor Swift's songs around the house. I gotta admit, at first I was kinda skeptical – I mean, I'm a middle-aged guy and I've always been into rock and stuff like that.
But you know what? Slowly but surely, Taylor's music started growing on me. The more I listened, the more I realized just how talented she is. The way she weaves stories into her songs is something else. It's like she's able to capture feelings and experiences that resonate with people of all ages.
And you know what album really did it for me? "Folklore." Man, that album is a whole vibe. The mellow tunes, the introspective lyrics – it's just a masterpiece. It's crazy how music can bring generations together. Here I am, jamming out to Taylor Swift alongside my daughter, and it's become this little bonding thing for us.
So yeah, consider me a fan now. Never thought I'd say that about a pop artist, but Taylor's music has a way of breaking down barriers.
This. My kid and I were already close, but this brought us together, and was a real bonding thing between her and her step mother. The three of us regularly "trade" music now, and it's fun.
i don't have a kid so i can't relate, but there are definitely a lot of taylor swift songs that transcend generations. my recent live experience reservations aside, this is well put.
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So, a while back, my daughter started playing Taylor Swift's songs around the house. I gotta admit, at first I was kinda skeptical – I mean, I'm a middle-aged guy and I've always been into rock and stuff like that.
But you know what? Slowly but surely, Taylor's music started growing on me. The more I listened, the more I realized just how talented she is. The way she weaves stories into her songs is something else. It's like she's able to capture feelings and experiences that resonate with people of all ages.
And you know what album really did it for me? "Folklore." Man, that album is a whole vibe. The mellow tunes, the introspective lyrics – it's just a masterpiece. It's crazy how music can bring generations together. Here I am, jamming out to Taylor Swift alongside my daughter, and it's become this little bonding thing for us.
So yeah, consider me a fan now. Never thought I'd say that about a pop artist, but Taylor's music has a way of breaking down barriers.
This. My kid and I were already close, but this brought us together, and was a real bonding thing between her and her step mother. The three of us regularly "trade" music now, and it's fun.
That's so nice Stadler! So far, it's been just Taylor Swift that's been the common musical ground for me and my daughter. However, I'm hoping to broaden our horizons a bit and explore some new genres and artists together. While my daughter hasn't been into music like Dream Theater and other rock/metal bands in the past, I think that the door is now open for us to discover more shared interests in music which is very cool.
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So, a while back, my daughter started playing Taylor Swift's songs around the house. I gotta admit, at first I was kinda skeptical – I mean, I'm a middle-aged guy and I've always been into rock and stuff like that.
But you know what? Slowly but surely, Taylor's music started growing on me. The more I listened, the more I realized just how talented she is. The way she weaves stories into her songs is something else. It's like she's able to capture feelings and experiences that resonate with people of all ages.
And you know what album really did it for me? "Folklore." Man, that album is a whole vibe. The mellow tunes, the introspective lyrics – it's just a masterpiece. It's crazy how music can bring generations together. Here I am, jamming out to Taylor Swift alongside my daughter, and it's become this little bonding thing for us.
So yeah, consider me a fan now. Never thought I'd say that about a pop artist, but Taylor's music has a way of breaking down barriers.
This. My kid and I were already close, but this brought us together, and was a real bonding thing between her and her step mother. The three of us regularly "trade" music now, and it's fun.
That's so nice Stadler! So far, it's been just Taylor Swift that's been the common musical ground for me and my daughter. However, I'm hoping to broaden our horizons a bit and explore some new genres and artists together. While my daughter hasn't been into music like Dream Theater and other rock/metal bands in the past, I think that the door is now open for us to discover more shared interests in music which is very cool.
I don't know if it will work for you, but one thing that helped open the door was when "her" bands/artists - like Taylor but also bands like One Direction and Panic! At The Disco - would do covers, I would ask her to listen to the originals. Swift did a version of "Drops of Jupiter" live, and I love that song, so we listened to the Train version. P!ATD did a Queen cover, so we listened to some Queen. One Direction did a song that sounded just like "Changes" by David Bowie, so we listened to some Bowie. I forget, but somehow she heard "Landslide" by Fleetwood Mac, so we listened to Rumours, and she fell in love with it (it's one of her favorite albums now).
Whatever way works for you; I wasn't trying to get her to like my music - I don't "pick" what I like, so I can't imagine it's different for her - just expose her to as much music as possible and let her decide what she wants to listen to.
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That is a great approach and I will keep it in mind myself, thanks for sharing!
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she finally did Cornelia Street as one of the surprise songs in Mexico
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she finally did Cornelia Street as one of the surprise songs in Mexico
big ups to taylor for gifting us this gem 🎶🙌
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Eras Tour in theaters october 13th https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cwm810ahz3u/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I’m assuming this means it will eventually be available to stream on Netflix or Disney+ later
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It was such a bitch to get tickets for those too lol. At least these would cost a lot less and my daughter can listen in some great surround sound.
There are a ridiculous amount of screenings in my city for those three days. I wouldn't be surprised if they added more shows.
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that’s a pretty quick turnaround on this thing , I remember hearing some shows had more cameras than usual and she used the same costumes all 3 or 4 nights but that was towards the end of the US tour.
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It was such a bitch to get tickets for those too lol. At least these would cost a lot less and my daughter can listen in some great surround sound.
There are a ridiculous amount of screenings in my city for those three days. I wouldn't be surprised if they added more shows.
she really is a money printing machine right now it’s insane. I’m sure it won’t last forever but everyone is riding that gravy train , even movie theaters lol
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I just counted, she has about a 100 screenings for Friday and then 145 screenings on Sat and probably another 145 on Sun. That's just insane and a lot of them show as sold out already. Madness.
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I guess it shouldn't be a surprise with how AMC's site was super slow yesterday after the announcement.
https://deadline.com/2023/09/taylor-swift-eras-tour-movie-ticket-presales-box-office-1235533199/ (https://deadline.com/2023/09/taylor-swift-eras-tour-movie-ticket-presales-box-office-1235533199/)
‘Taylor Swift: Eras Tour’ Concert Film Breaks AMC Record For First Day Presales With $26M, Beating ‘Spider-Man: No Way Home’
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Eras Tour movie premiere day! I'm seeing it tonight with a buddy of mine and his 11 year old daughter. Should be a blast
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My daughter and wife are going tomorrow. I looked today and they've updated the shows in my nearby theater to 40 screens per day in the weekend. It's insane how many shows got added on.
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is each city getting a different movie? is it just a normal concert film but cut from song performances from the entire tour, or just one show, or something else?
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Saw it with Mrs. P yesterday. What a show! Neither of us knew any of the music (except Shake it Off), but really enjoyed the presentation, choreography, cinematography, energy, and especially the fans in the arena. I dug the songs presented from Red, 89, and Midnight Eras. I found most of her songs had clever lyrics, but not a lot of variety in melodies. Not that her songs were samey, but she uses a pretty narrow melodic range and her approach to melody writing hasn't changed much over the years...or so it seems to me.
Anyway, what a personality, and what a concert! :tup :tup
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is each city getting a different movie? is it just a normal concert film but cut from song performances from the entire tour, or just one show, or something else?
it was recorded over 3(?) nights in los angeles at the end of the first leg of the tour back in august of this year. In editing the movie they cut a song (or two) in each section(except for Speak Now because there was only one), for time considerations I suppose.
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hey what happened to Kevshmev? He usually kept this thread going but I see he hasn’t posted or been active on the forum in a while.
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I’ve been wondering that too…
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Well, looks like Taylor got a new boyfriend, do we really know Kev's actual identity?
:P
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Well, looks like Taylor got a new boyfriend, do we really know Kev's actual identity?
:P
That would be a hoot; our man Kev left us to date T-Swift!!! :) :) :) :)
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is each city getting a different movie? is it just a normal concert film but cut from song performances from the entire tour, or just one show, or something else?
it was recorded over 3(?) nights in los angeles at the end of the first leg of the tour back in august of this year. In editing the movie they cut a song (or two) in each section(except for Speak Now because there was only one), for time considerations I suppose.
thanks! gotta admit i kinda fell off the TS hype train after seeing my show in Denver, so i haven't been paying close attention to the rest of the shows or the movie release
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Well, looks like Taylor got a new boyfriend, do we really know Kev's actual identity?
:P
That would be a hoot; our man Kev left us to date T-Swift!!! :) :) :) :)
I guess we can hear all about his flaws and failures on her next album then 😄
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I guess we can hear all about his flaws and failures on her next album then 😄
:rollin
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"Welcome To St. Louis".
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Saw it with Mrs. P yesterday. What a show! Neither of us knew any of the music (except Shake it Off), but really enjoyed the presentation, choreography, cinematography, energy, and especially the fans in the arena. I dug the songs presented from Red, 89, and Midnight Eras. I found most of her songs had clever lyrics, but not a lot of variety in melodies. Not that her songs were samey, but she uses a pretty narrow melodic range and her approach to melody writing hasn't changed much over the years...or so it seems to me.
Anyway, what a personality, and what a concert! :tup :tup
Daughter and wife saw it past weekend and they might be biased as big swifties but they just loved it. Daughter was sad that the nearly 3 hour concert movie ended. She wants to go again and I might go with her this time. I've read and heard from many non-fans it's an amazing experience in the theater with all that you described. I did go to her Reputation tour and at the time knew one or maybe two songs and I had a great time and was very entertained even though I felt kinda awkward in a sea of mostly preteen girls.
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Well, looks like Taylor got a new boyfriend, do we really know Kev's actual identity?
:P
That would be a hoot; our man Kev left us to date T-Swift!!! :) :) :) :)
I guess we can hear all about his flaws and failures on her next album then 😄
This morbid curiosity is about the only reason I would consider dating her. But I would find a way to delete the master copy before it went to press. :lol
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Well, looks like Taylor got a new boyfriend, do we really know Kev's actual identity?
:P
That would be a hoot; our man Kev left us to date T-Swift!!! :) :) :) :)
I guess we can hear all about his flaws and failures on her next album then 😄
This morbid curiosity is about the only reason I would consider dating her. But I would find a way to delete the master copy before it went to press. :lol
So you're saying you'd date her to find out your flaws and failures after the fact? Haha, that's actually kind of funny. :)
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Well, looks like Taylor got a new boyfriend, do we really know Kev's actual identity?
:P
That would be a hoot; our man Kev left us to date T-Swift!!! :) :) :) :)
I guess we can hear all about his flaws and failures on her next album then 😄
This morbid curiosity is about the only reason I would consider dating her. But I would find a way to delete the master copy before it went to press. :lol
So you're saying you'd date her to find out your flaws and failures after the fact? Haha, that's actually kind of funny. :)
DTF will give that to you right up front, and it won't even cost you a dinner! ;D
My other thought is that Litho is obviously not married because you don't have to wait "after the fact" to hear about your flaws and failures. You get that kind of feedback in the here and now. :lol
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Yeah, but you don't normally get songs out of it. :p
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Well, looks like Taylor got a new boyfriend, do we really know Kev's actual identity?
:P
That would be a hoot; our man Kev left us to date T-Swift!!! :) :) :) :)
Just call me Travis.
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Well, looks like Taylor got a new boyfriend, do we really know Kev's actual identity?
:P
That would be a hoot; our man Kev left us to date T-Swift!!! :) :) :) :)
Just call me Travis.
:lol
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So my 10 yo daughter went to the movie with a friend and she liked a few songs but I don't think she's gone full Swiftie yet. I've tried to listen to some of her songs. Can someone help me understand the appeal? Where should I start? I appreciate that she writes her own songs and is legit talented so wanted to give her a legit shot.
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So my 10 yo daughter went to the movie with a friend and she liked a few songs but I don't think she's gone full Swiftie yet. I've tried to listen to some of her songs. Can someone help me understand the appeal? Where should I start? I appreciate that she writes her own songs and is legit talented so wanted to give her a legit shot.
She writes easily accessible pop songs with lyrics that are relatable. Most of her output is actually pretty good and inoffensive, but she has also written some absolute cringe inducing garbage. I would start with Red. Speak Now is also pretty good. Before you listen to her best album, 1989, immediately delete Bad Blood from the track list. This song was included by mistake.
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So my 10 yo daughter went to the movie with a friend and she liked a few songs but I don't think she's gone full Swiftie yet. I've tried to listen to some of her songs. Can someone help me understand the appeal? Where should I start? I appreciate that she writes her own songs and is legit talented so wanted to give her a legit shot.
I would say give an album or two full spins (to see if it grabs ya). I started off with Folklore and Evermore, her two 2020 quarantine albums, both of which are great for this time of year. The hooks on both are not immediate, but the slow burn of them are amazing, and when they grab you, they do not let go, and both albums are lyrical masterworks.
I feel you cannot go wrong either with Speak Now and Red (the originals). Speak Now still has a bit of country, but has a strong dirty rock feel. Red is where the country was mostly gone and the pop was starting to creep in; that album has a lot of variety and many of her best songs.
1989 is probably her catchiest and most pop album, and it is a great record. I don't listen to it as much as the others because I like my pop a little different, but it's a great album for what it is.
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1989 has what I consider two of the greatest pop songs ever. Not HER greatest pop songs, but in general. "Wildest Dreams" and "New Romantics".
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And yet Wildest Dreams is one of the five songs from the concert that was cut from the film. :P :P
I get that she probably had to cut a little to keep it under three hours for reasons beyond her control, but it was still a slight bummer. Regardless, the concert film is still most awesome (seen it twice..so far ;)).
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Thanks all, I'll check those out.
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Went to Eras movie today to celebrate 1989 re-release. Damn, that was a really well done concert film. I love the added visuals at the start of each era, but everything overall was really well done. Must say though, I think that Matt Billingslea's drum kit is almost a hybrid of Neil Peart and Mike Portnoy's signature kits, just a bit scaled down.
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Is 1989 the last of her re-releases?
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Is 1989 the last of her re-releases?
No, the self titled and the album Reputation are missing.
She re-recorded all her other albums for which she doesn't own the masters, gaining new artistic and financial control over them.
Now all that's left to take back is her name, and her reputation ;D
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As I have said before, I am buying the re-recordings for the Vault tracks and to support the endeavor, but I have zero hope that the TVs of the songs from the normal album will be as good or better than the originals. The originals of both Red and Speak Now are miles ahead of the re-records, but the Vault tracks from both those are pretty damn great. I have been listening to the ones from Speak Now since they were released in July, and I can safely say that Timeless has become one of my favorite songs of hers. There are five Vault tracks here on 1989 TV, and I am sure there will be some major gems.
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I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but aside from a few mixing choices, and vocal deliveries, the 1989 rerecordings are pretty good.
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Imogen Heap actually worked with her on the new version of 1989 (unsure how I feel about that, but I support Imogen Heap in whatever she does regardless how I feel about Taylor Swift and her music).
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cy5yzRGATx7/?img_index=1
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So it sounds like the originals are better than the re-records?
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So it sounds like the originals are better than the re-records?
I am admittedly usually a slave to what I hear first, so not sure I am the best judge of this. I heard Fearless TV first, so I prefer that to the original Fearless (although I think her vocals at 18 being a bit too rough around the edges is ultimately why I had some difficulty with the original), but I heard the original Red and Speak Now both before TVs of each, so I prefer those originals.
I have managed to listen to most of 1989 TV today and most of it seems about as good or close to as good as the original. Some minor quibbles, but that could be more of a me thing than anything else.
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It's really hard to nail a re-record. You get into an uncanny valley type situation where the closer it is to the original, the more the differences bother you. I am not familiar enough with the albums she has re-recorded to tell you much about the differences, but it does feel like the Speak Now songs just weren't quite right. I think it probably has more to do with her being older and having a different voice now, but some of the energy seemed different as well. Haven't tried 1989 yet, which is the album of hers I'm most familiar with.
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It's really hard to nail a re-record. You get into an uncanny valley type situation where the closer it is to the original, the more the differences bother you. I am not familiar enough with the albums she has re-recorded to tell you much about the differences, but it does feel like the Speak Now songs just weren't quite right. I think it probably has more to do with her being older and having a different voice now, but some of the energy seemed different as well. Haven't tried 1989 yet, which is the album of hers I'm most familiar with.
I have said it before and I will say it again: it is impossible to recapture the energy and spirit of a record years later if you attempt to re-record it. She has done a damn good job getting pretty close on all of them, but I do agree with you that getting super close makes the little differences stand out more.
With regards to her singing, yes, she is a better singer now than she was before she could legally drink, but that kind of "just going for it" youthful exuberance was a big part of the charm of her early vocals, flawed as they might have been at times. I have noticed too that she is really enunciating better. Take Haunted from Speak Now. I had almost forgotten that she used the word "terribly" in the chorus because the way she sings it on the original sees her take it a bit low and singing it like it's one and a half syllables instead of three (if that make sense), but on TV, you feel the weight of each syllable when she sings the word. Not saying one way is better than the other, it's just different. Little things like that I often catch.
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Those from the vault tracks and the blandest of bland.
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Those from the vault tracks and the blandest of bland.
You think so? I’m actually really liking them…
Also, I haven’t done any A/B, so I’m not sure if it’s just a feeling, but I’m loving the re-recording of Style (it was already one of my favorites, no matter how overplayed)…feels “bassier”…really cool…
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new romantics is good but that one isn't really new. i agree the FTV tracks are boring otherwise
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It's on the tip of my tongue, but I'm pretty sure some of the melodies in Say Don't Go are from a Police song.
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There is a vocal melody in Say Don't Go that is somewhat similar to one in Clean (I think it's the first line of the second verse), so it makes sense that she left one off the original album considering the similarity.
I don't think it's her best collection of From the Vault tracks (Red and Speak Now are neck and neck for that honor), and none of them touch the best songs from the proper 1989, but they are all still enjoyable additions to her ever-growing massive catalogue.
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This 1989 is just 1989 like the remake didn't improve much for me.
so i went to the vault........bland.i
all in all this was a weak package.
in fact the only vault tracks i go back to are Red's. these re-record's i'll never pick them over the originals. the only one i think for me improved was fearless. the others.....nah. i know her ultimate goal is for fans to take the re-records but i won't be, lol
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Was my turn to take my 9 year old daughter for her 2nd viewing last night, I don't know all her song catalog but the girl can entertain for sure.
The sound mix was fantastic, I kinda wished I had booked the Dolby show, I've read it really shines there. Obviously the cinematography, choreography and all the technical stuff are just flat out amazing, even if there are tracks that you don't care about, it's fun to watch the stuff going on the stage, the crowd lights colors,etc.. always something to keep your attention.
Can't compare tracks to their studio versions as I'm not that familiar but some sounded different, maybe due to the live settings, the instruments get more involved. I'm pretty sure I saw the guitarist or one of them at least, playing with an Eddie Van Halen striped guitar. Players were pretty good too.
Dancers were something else too, you have a cut guy with rock solid abs next to her and the flip side is an overweight big guy who could dance like no other. Very interesting mix of people. So yeah it was definitely entertaining.
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This 1989 is just 1989 like the remake didn't improve much for me.
so i went to the vault........bland.i
all in all this was a weak package.
in fact the only vault tracks i go back to are Red's. these re-record's i'll never pick them over the originals. the only one i think for me improved was fearless. the others.....nah. i know her ultimate goal is for fans to take the re-records but i won't be, lol
I am sure she knows many fans will still listen to the original records, especially after the initial impact of each TV release wears off, but when you look at how well each of the re-recordings we have gotten so far have done, it is hard to think of this as anything more than a massive triumph.
Was my turn to take my 9 year old daughter for her 2nd viewing last night, I don't know all her song catalog but the girl can entertain for sure.
The sound mix was fantastic, I kinda wished I had booked the Dolby show, I've read it really shines there. Obviously the cinematography, choreography and all the technical stuff are just flat out amazing, even if there are tracks that you don't care about, it's fun to watch the stuff going on the stage, the crowd lights colors,etc.. always something to keep your attention.
Can't compare tracks to their studio versions as I'm not that familiar but some sounded different, maybe due to the live settings, the instruments get more involved. I'm pretty sure I saw the guitarist or one of them at least, playing with an Eddie Van Halen striped guitar. Players were pretty good too.
Dancers were something else too, you have a cut guy with rock solid abs next to her and the flip side is an overweight big guy who could dance like no other. Very interesting mix of people. So yeah it was definitely entertaining.
:tup :tup
The live band is definitely a great thing, as it is nice to hear some of the songs that got the pop treatment in the studio performed with a live band playing real instruments.
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The chorus to that "Police song" randomly popped in my head just now. It's Your Love by The Outfield.
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i've been a Taylor Swift fan for a long time (first show was the Fearless tour back in the day), but the events of the last year have made me have to consider heavily backtracking my fandom and the way I approach listening to her music. I am almost embarassed to admit that I like her as much as I do because, frankly, the hype and the sensationalism around TS has absolutely gone over the top and has long reached the point of absolute over-saturation, not to mention some additional issues
* Really bothers me that every time she releases something, she releases 5+ vinyl variants, each with a unique bonus song on it. I know this isn't new, bands have been doing this forever, but no band does 5+ variants/bonus tracks on EVERY SINGLE RELEASE, even re-releases. That is just such a shameless money grab, each time
* (This one isn't TS' fault, but she encourages it) Really bothers me that the absolute oversaturation and obsession with her in the media means that you can't even go out to your local corner store without having to hear about her, what she's doing, who's she's dating, etc
* Really bothered me to see, at my show on the Eras tour (first night of the Denver run) to see so many Swifties behaving in a rather repulsive manner (being incredible rude to event staff, especially merchandising and concessions, but also ushers in each section who are just trying to get fans into the right seats)
* Really bothered me to see so many Swifties at my show giving cops and other uniformed people friendship bracelets :puke:
So yeah, while I never considered myself a Swiftie (see: fanatic fan) like I am with lots of other bands that we love to talk about here, I have definitely re-evaluated my relationship with her music and decided that I need to stay the hell away, as her posturing on so many of these things I just can't stand by. It was nice growing up with her and getting to see her live several times, but it's just become too much, so count me out :tdwn
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um, sure I guess ?
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i've been a Taylor Swift fan for a long time (first show was the Fearless tour back in the day), but the events of the last year have made me have to consider heavily backtracking my fandom and the way I approach listening to her music. I am almost embarassed to admit that I like her as much as I do because, frankly, the hype and the sensationalism around TS has absolutely gone over the top and has long reached the point of absolute over-saturation, not to mention some additional issues
* Really bothers me that every time she releases something, she releases 5+ vinyl variants, each with a unique bonus song on it. I know this isn't new, bands have been doing this forever, but no band does 5+ variants/bonus tracks on EVERY SINGLE RELEASE, even re-releases. That is just such a shameless money grab, each time
* (This one isn't TS' fault, but she encourages it) Really bothers me that the absolute oversaturation and obsession with her in the media means that you can't even go out to your local corner store without having to hear about her, what she's doing, who's she's dating, etc
* Really bothered me to see, at my show on the Eras tour (first night of the Denver run) to see so many Swifties behaving in a rather repulsive manner (being incredible rude to event staff, especially merchandising and concessions, but also ushers in each section who are just trying to get fans into the right seats)
* Really bothered me to see so many Swifties at my show giving cops and other uniformed people friendship bracelets :puke:
So yeah, while I never considered myself a Swiftie (see: fanatic fan) like I am with lots of other bands that we love to talk about here, I have definitely re-evaluated my relationship with her music and decided that I need to stay the hell away, as her posturing on so many of these things I just can't stand by. It was nice growing up with her and getting to see her live several times, but it's just become too much, so count me out :tdwn
Shake it out, my friend.
Welcome to the dark side muwahahaha :lol
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I can't imagine depriving myself of music because some fans are annoying and because of the media, but we all have our own paths to follow.
I do agree the bonus song deal on different releases is annoying, but it feels like many do that silliness. I remember when CD releases in Japan would get a bonus song we here in the States did not.
This, however, might be the biggest WTF I have ever seen:
* Really bothered me to see so many Swifties at my show giving cops and other uniformed people friendship bracelets :puke:
Ultimately..
(https://media.tenor.com/rwdOoN44fZgAAAAC/well-bye.gif)
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So there's a different bonus track on each of 1989 TV? I looked at the back of a few at Target and they looked the same. I just turned to my wife and said "now she's just being greedy". The clock thing was a neat concept and way to sell more copies, but the only difference I could see with these variants is spine color and cover.
I say this as someone who owns I think every version of Night of the Stormrider, but at least the booklets are different because they were from different countries.
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So there's a different bonus track on each of 1989 TV? I looked at the back of a few at Target and they looked the same. I just turned to my wife and said "now she's just being greedy". The clock thing was a neat concept and way to sell more copies, but the only difference I could see with these variants is spine color and cover.
I say this as someone who owns I think every version of Night of the Stormrider, but at least the booklets are different because they were from different countries.
No, there is one bonus track (I cannot think of the name, as it's a song I am not familiar with) that is on the Targent vinyl only for now. She did the same thing with Midnights, where Hits Different was only available if you bought the Target vinyl. Hits Different eventually was available for streaming, and I am sure that will be the case with this 1989 TV bonus track as well.
The way I see it, the only people this hurts are the impatient fans. :P I listened to Hits Different from a rip from YT where someone had uploaded it until it was available officially and I could buy it on iTunes to get it in HQ.
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Re: the bonus songs, I had this conversation with my daughter. She unfortunately has inherited my completist genes (there are a couple bands where I have every SONG ever officially released by them - DT one, Kiss another - and there are ways of doing it. Mike made it easy - love him! - with the fan club releases and what not. Others - Maiden - make it hard with the vinyl-only releases and what not. You DO have to be patient. It almost always finds it's way out there officially in some form or fashion.
I was watching the end of the Chiefs - Broncos game, and they actually put up a graphic: Travis Kelce's yardages when TS was present vs. when she wasn't in attendance. Let's hope she starts an Australian tour soon! Like next week!! :) :) :) :):)
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Haha, Argentina is next week and then Brazil after that, so being on the other side of the equator at least will have to work for the rest of 2023. :P
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if the chiefs make it to the superbowl she actually will be off touring Japan, australia etc. by then
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I was watching the end of the Chiefs - Broncos game, and they actually put up a graphic: Travis Kelce's yardages when TS was present vs. when she wasn't in attendance.
And stuff like this is why I kinda understand hoveringsojourns point above. I like her music but can't turn my head without hearing about her. She's on the news, I hear her in stores, on the cover of magazines, my son even sent me an article of something like 'what videogame best represents each Taylor swift album', the record store is like 20% TS and now she's everywhere in the cinema too. Too much!
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This, however, might be the biggest WTF I have ever seen:
* Really bothered me to see so many Swifties at my show giving cops and other uniformed people friendship bracelets :puke:
unsure how it could be the biggest WTF ever, there are hundreds, thousands probably even, documented cases of cops committing atrocities on their citizens from all over the world. America least of all is safe from the pandemic of cop violence. Just try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who's life was traumatized by cops and then imagine the pain of seeing people showering them with gifts while they.... do their job? these same swifties in Denver had no problem shouting obscenities at merch cashiers but then would turn around and give cops friendship bracelets.
bad vibes, just totally rancid vibes, actually.
edit: and before anyone asks, yes, i was traumatized by cops in Denver in 2020 when they marched through capital hill spewing tear gas directly into peoples homes (mine included) during the George Floyd protests. Also about a year later a group of rogue cops in Denver just arbitrarily fired into crowded night life streets and killed innocent people who were just trying to have a night out. I don't think that behavior warrants a friendship bracelet. so yeah, i don't like cops and i have good reason
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I guess there is a kind of peak happening right now in pop culture due to the success of The Eras tour but that stuff usually ebbs and flows, it’s not gonna last forever.
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Yep, overexposure is happening for sure, but it's not her fault that the media comments on everything she does and just her mere presence anywhere in public is a big story. Blame the media and the papparazi.
As for the police point above, I am not a fan of stereotyping an entire group based on the bad actions of some (and in fact, I had hoped most of us had gotten past that by now). I will leave it at that (as I do not want this thread to become a fiasco with off topic chatter).
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Not safe from Taylor anywhere, now we're not safe from P&R anywhere either!
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i'm happy to drop it too (and exit this thread entirely, lol, BTW how do you make threads you've previously posted in stop showing up in the "Show new replies to your posts." link? that's primarily how i have used this site) but i would just like to say i have done no stereotyping because that would imply the things i said only partially applied to the group of people i made the claim about. in my experience i have never encountered a person of that group who didn't act that way, so not sure how it could be a stereotype - it's just plain experience
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another thing is those eras shows are so huge, anytime a large number of people like that gather in one place there’s always going to be a significant portion of inconsiderate a-holes in there, ain’t no way around that.
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another thing is those eras shows are so huge, anytime a large number of people like that gather in one place there’s always going to be a significant portion of inconsiderate a-holes in there, ain’t no way around that.
i go to probably about 50-100 concerts a year, and while yeah, her show was definitely one of it not the largest i've been to in forever, the proportion of obnoxious, entitled fans was out of control. i understand that everyone spent a lot of time and money to be there but nobody owes you anything. i saw cursing, physical confrontations, spitting, etc. just an absolute madhouse and parade of inexcusable behavior
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Looks like Is It Over Now? will be the first single from 1989. I would have chosen Say Don't Go, which is insanely catchy, but Taylor loves to go with the non-obvious choices sometimes. :lol
Speaking of which, Cruel Summer, from 2019, just hit number 1 on the pop charts last week. That has happened before, a song slaying on the charts years after its initial release, but it's not the norm.
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This, however, might be the biggest WTF I have ever seen:
* Really bothered me to see so many Swifties at my show giving cops and other uniformed people friendship bracelets :puke:
unsure how it could be the biggest WTF ever, there are hundreds, thousands probably even, documented cases of cops committing atrocities on their citizens from all over the world. America least of all is safe from the pandemic of cop violence. Just try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who's life was traumatized by cops and then imagine the pain of seeing people showering them with gifts while they.... do their job? these same swifties in Denver had no problem shouting obscenities at merch cashiers but then would turn around and give cops friendship bracelets.
bad vibes, just totally rancid vibes, actually.
edit: and before anyone asks, yes, i was traumatized by cops in Denver in 2020 when they marched through capital hill spewing tear gas directly into peoples homes (mine included) during the George Floyd protests. Also about a year later a group of rogue cops in Denver just arbitrarily fired into crowded night life streets and killed innocent people who were just trying to have a night out. I don't think that behavior warrants a friendship bracelet. so yeah, i don't like cops and i have good reason
Look, not arguing with you; your experience is yours and nothing I can or will say about that. But there are other experiences out there. For example, my brother is a cop, and has been on the job for the better part of 25 years. Highly decorated, and has nothing to do with the 1 or 2% that we now read about in the press because it's newsworthy. I don't do it now - my house is not visible from the street - but historically I have burned a blue candle (the electric kind, with the bulb) in my attic window. There are times I worry about him coming home to his boys. He probably wouldn't take it - he's now at the stage where he makes sure his address isn't readily available, that kind of thing - but if someone in good faith offered him a friendship bracelet, it gives me some comfort that there are people out there that aren't stereotyping, that aren't lumping every cop into the bucket occupied by a handful of psychopaths with Napoleonic complexes.
So yeah, if not all Muslims are terrorists, and not all... you get the picture, then certainly we can be open to the fact that not all police officers are of the ilk of Derek Chauvin.
With all that said, I am sorry for your experiences.
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I like that Blank Space song. That’s a good one. Why’s the Space so Blank?
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This, however, might be the biggest WTF I have ever seen:
* Really bothered me to see so many Swifties at my show giving cops and other uniformed people friendship bracelets :puke:
unsure how it could be the biggest WTF ever, there are hundreds, thousands probably even, documented cases of cops committing atrocities on their citizens from all over the world. America least of all is safe from the pandemic of cop violence. Just try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who's life was traumatized by cops and then imagine the pain of seeing people showering them with gifts while they.... do their job? these same swifties in Denver had no problem shouting obscenities at merch cashiers but then would turn around and give cops friendship bracelets.
bad vibes, just totally rancid vibes, actually.
edit: and before anyone asks, yes, i was traumatized by cops in Denver in 2020 when they marched through capital hill spewing tear gas directly into peoples homes (mine included) during the George Floyd protests. Also about a year later a group of rogue cops in Denver just arbitrarily fired into crowded night life streets and killed innocent people who were just trying to have a night out. I don't think that behavior warrants a friendship bracelet. so yeah, i don't like cops and i have good reason
Look, not arguing with you; your experience is yours and nothing I can or will say about that. But there are other experiences out there. For example, my brother is a cop, and has been on the job for the better part of 25 years. Highly decorated, and has nothing to do with the 1 or 2% that we now read about in the press because it's newsworthy. I don't do it now - my house is not visible from the street - but historically I have burned a blue candle (the electric kind, with the bulb) in my attic window. There are times I worry about him coming home to his boys. He probably wouldn't take it - he's now at the stage where he makes sure his address isn't readily available, that kind of thing - but if someone in good faith offered him a friendship bracelet, it gives me some comfort that there are people out there that aren't stereotyping, that aren't lumping every cop into the bucket occupied by a handful of psychopaths with Napoleonic complexes.
So yeah, if not all Muslims are terrorists, and not all... you get the picture, then certainly we can be open to the fact that not all police officers are of the ilk of Derek Chauvin.
With all that said, I am sorry for your experiences.
Well said, Bill. :tup :tup
I like that Blank Space song. That’s a good one. Why’s the Space so Blank?
That's the fun of satire. :biggrin: :biggrin:
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I've been away from these forums a while (like, a *really* long while) and have become something of a TS fan in the interim, and I have to say it's surprising but refreshing to see Taylor Swift appreciation on a DT forum; though I don't recall much antipathy toward pop music in general back in the dark ages when I posted regularly.
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Oh there definitely was a couple decades ago. Fortunately, it's gradually diminished over the years.
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Three shows have been added to the Eras tour, in Vancouver in early December 2024. I suspect some from Canada will still complain. :lol :biggrin:
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I live on the opposite side of the damn country but I still signed up to the pre-sale, lol
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So my opinion of the FTV tracks have changed. They're actually pretty good, although my wife is seriously overplaying them to the point that I might eventually hate them. Say Don't Go and Now That We Don't Talk are the best of the bunch. But once they're over, the worst song in the universe comes on and I make her change it. Seriously, What the fuck?! And she somehow made it worse!
I can seriously go a year without hearing a Taylor Swift song or even hearing her damn name. Congrats, you're a billionaire. Go away for a while.
EDIT: Slut! Is still pretty bland.
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The tour has 13 more months, off and on, to go, so good luck in not hearing her name for a year (or a day). :P :lol
I like the 1989 Vault tracks quite a bit collectively, but Speak Now TV and Red TV were both far better.
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I was going down a rabbit hole with the band members and the bassist, Amos Heller, apparently has been with her the longest since 2007. He recently did a pretty good cover of Metallica's Blackened on his channel
https://youtu.be/-mgeYaQQQ8k?si=kLnn__s5qV11PGOG
In one comment on the video someone said they do video production for different bands on tour with DT being one of them, Amos replied that he "loves DT!"
That's pretty cool.
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The tour has 13 more months, off and on, to go, so good luck in not hearing her name for a year (or a day). :P :lol
I like the 1989 Vault tracks quite a bit collectively, but Speak Now TV and Red TV were both far better.
My store plays multiple songs from her throughout the day. I guess I should just be thankful they stopped playing Adele.
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I was going down a rabbit hole with the band members and the bassist, Amos Heller, apparently has been with her the longest since 2007. He recently did a pretty good cover of Metallica's Blackened on his channel
https://youtu.be/-mgeYaQQQ8k?si=kLnn__s5qV11PGOG
In one comment on the video someone said they do video production for different bands on tour with DT being one of them, Amos replied that he "loves DT!"
That's pretty cool.
I had seen the thing about Metallica, but that's cool about DT as well! He definitely is an excellent bass player.
My store plays multiple songs from her throughout the day. I guess I should just be thankful they stopped playing Adele.
Yeah, I can only take so much of Adele's crooning. Great voice, but her knack for oversinging makes her mostly unlistenable to me at this point.
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I've said some controversial things about Swift on this board so I want to clarify something: that little countrified girl with the acoustic guitar first presenting herself to the world, that was REAL talent. 100%. A genuine artist. I would love to have seen how far she could have gone still dressing conservatively and sticking to her roots.
But she's not that anymore; like with every other American artist you get the inevitable dallying with hip-hop and 300 backup dancers and teams of producers writing club hits for her and the whole self-fulfilling axiom of "you have to love her because she's the most amazing thing ever". It's absolutely inevitable in today's music scene that you have to morph into what's gonna keep your popularity at the top but too bad today's generation of teenage girls can't have the original back.
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I've said some controversial things about Swift on this board so I want to clarify something: that little countrified girl with the acoustic guitar first presenting herself to the world, that was REAL talent. 100%. A genuine artist. I would love to have seen how far she could have gone still dressing conservatively and sticking to her roots.
But she's not that anymore; like with every other American artist you get the inevitable dallying with hip-hop and 300 backup dancers and teams of producers writing club hits for her and the whole self-fulfilling axiom of "you have to love her because she's the most amazing thing ever". It's absolutely inevitable in today's music scene that you have to morph into what's gonna keep your popularity at the top but too bad today's generation of teenage girls can't have the original back.
Some of that isn't accurate, though. She's avoided the "300 backup dancers and teams of producers writing club hits for her". I like her because her music gives me joy, and more importantly, it gives the young woman who is my daughter great joy as well.
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The tour has 13 more months, off and on, to go, so good luck in not hearing her name for a year (or a day). :P :lol
I like the 1989 Vault tracks quite a bit collectively, but Speak Now TV and Red TV were both far better.
My store plays multiple songs from her throughout the day. I guess I should just be thankful they stopped playing Adele.
I'm in the wrong thread, but I don't view this change as an improvement. ;D
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she does have a lot of backup dancers but I don’t really see what’s wrong with that, it’s just a different kind of show and of course not everyone has to like it. Working with producers shouldn’t be seen as any sort of stigma anymore but again not everyone has to like it.
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Ah yes, the "a team of producers writes her songs for her" false narrative. Whenever someone spits that out, it becomes clear that they have no idea what they are talking about.
But that's the MO of people online who just want to hate, hate, hate. They spit out something totally wrong like that, and when informed that they are incorrect and/or the actual facts, they resort to the "OMG, YOU SWIFTIES ARE SO DEFENSIVE!" silliness. It's dishonest posting.
Edit: sorry if this reply seems harsh, but reading that kind of false nonsense from people who are uninformed gets old.
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BTW how do you make threads you've previously posted in stop showing up in the "Show new replies to your posts." link? that's primarily how i have used this site
was just wondering if anyone had an answer to this, lol
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BTW, for those of us on the fence, by chance does anyone want to try and make a Spotify playlist of maybe a dozen representative songs that demonstrate Taylor's various sounds? I for one would certainly check it out.
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BTW, for those of us on the fence, by chance does anyone want to try and make a Spotify playlist of maybe a dozen representative songs that demonstrate Taylor's various sounds? I for one would certainly check it out.
I don't do Spotify, but as it did the trick for me, I would recommend just listening to all of Folklore and/or Evermore (her two 2020 albums). Folklore is the higher regarded album by all accounts, but I think slightly prefer Evermore.
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I heard Folklore once when it came out and it was ok, but there weren't any standout tracks and I never felt compelled to return to it. I also own Fearless and liked "Love Story" and "Breathe", but the rest was rather underwhelming.
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I heard Folklore once when it came out and it was ok, but there weren't any standout tracks and I never felt compelled to return to it. I also own Fearless and liked "Love Story" and "Breathe", but the rest was rather underwhelming.
Gotcha.
If you like 80-sounding pop, go for 1989 (the original version). That record has more hooks than your average fisherman could ever hope to dream about.
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I do generally like 80s-ish pop, though my success with the more mainstream throwbacks to it like some of Carly Rae Jepsen's albums have been kind of disappointing. I may give it a try anyway though.
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I'm a big fan of 1989, myself.
I think that's the interesting thing about her and why the criticisms don't really hold water. She DOESN'T have a team of writers that she brings in each album, and yet, there is STILL mad variety in her work. Sure, she has collaborators, but then again, so does John Petrucci. To me, anyway, the s/t and Red and 1989 and Lover and evermore don't sound anything alike and yet they are all the same artist. THAT'S her mastery, even if you or I don't like every single song.
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I do generally like 80s-ish pop, though my success with the more mainstream throwbacks to it like some of Carly Rae Jepsen's albums have been kind of disappointing. I may give it a try anyway though.
You must’ve heard her song “Style”, I assume? If not, give it a try, I can see you enjoying that one
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I do generally like 80s-ish pop, though my success with the more mainstream throwbacks to it like some of Carly Rae Jepsen's albums have been kind of disappointing. I may give it a try anyway though.
You must’ve heard her song “Style”, I assume? If not, give it a try, I can see you enjoying that one
How do you know my taste so well? :lol Yes, I think I had heard that one before somewhere, and it's the best one on the album. "Wildest Dreams" is probably the second best.
But overall, I'm continuing to suspect she might not be an artist I'm going to love on an entire album basis. I just listened to 1989, and the rest of the album was mildly pleasant, but not particularly engrossing, unfortunately, just like Jepsen. I think the music I like vaguely in this realm is generally some combination of more melancholy, darker, artsier, lusher/more ethereal, and/or has stronger vocals. It's a bit too "happy" and middle of the road for me.
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So far I've listened through 1989, Fearless, Evermore, and Folklore. All 4 very different obviously. Folklore is by far the weakest. Fearless and Evermore are both solid. 1989 is ok, just not by style.
The interesting thing to me is that she's nothing special vocally which means her biggest talent is the ability to write a catchy tune. I'd love to hear Kelly Clarkson belt out some of these songs.
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The interesting thing to me is that she's nothing special vocally which means her biggest talent is the ability to write a catchy tune. I'd love to hear Kelly Clarkson belt out some of these songs.
Exactly. Or Adele. :D
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Songwriting is her best musical ability, yes, but do not sleep on her voice. Just like one doesn't need to able to shred to be a good guitar player, one doesn't have to belt it out like Adele or have crazy good range to be a good singer. I love Taylor's natural voice, and few singers have the ability to squeeze nuances out of every little melody like she does. Her voice when I heard the songs I taste tested from 2020 was what drew me in almost immediately. I was like, "Damn, I love her voice." That is why I kept listening.
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I think this performance of wildest dreams is better than the studio version.
https://youtu.be/H0XyNfZj5Xs?si=r1aWYCPaPuEFJ6kX (https://youtu.be/H0XyNfZj5Xs?si=r1aWYCPaPuEFJ6kX)
She kinda goes all Adele like in the end, she also seems to be singing the song in a higher key? Not sure what the right word is. Or louder I guess.
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I think this performance of wildest dreams is better than the studio version.
https://youtu.be/H0XyNfZj5Xs?si=r1aWYCPaPuEFJ6kX (https://youtu.be/H0XyNfZj5Xs?si=r1aWYCPaPuEFJ6kX)
That is technically a mashup of Enchanted and Wildest Dreams :P, but, yes, that is a great version! I really love how in that arrangement, she eventually lets her backup singers take over the main line of the chorus for a bit while she scats and sings the other lead parts of the chorus, but at the very end, when she gets up from the piano, she takes over the main line again. That sounds epic when she does that.
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I do generally like 80s-ish pop, though my success with the more mainstream throwbacks to it like some of Carly Rae Jepsen's albums have been kind of disappointing. I may give it a try anyway though.
You must’ve heard her song “Style”, I assume? If not, give it a try, I can see you enjoying that one
How do you know my taste so well? :lol Yes, I think I had heard that one before somewhere, and it's the best one on the album. "Wildest Dreams" is probably the second best.
But overall, I'm continuing to suspect she might not be an artist I'm going to love on an entire album basis. I just listened to 1989, and the rest of the album was mildly pleasant, but not particularly engrossing, unfortunately, just like Jepsen. I think the music I like vaguely in this realm is generally some combination of more melancholy, darker, artsier, lusher/more ethereal, and/or has stronger vocals. It's a bit too "happy" and middle of the road for me.
:lol
Well, I have a couple more songs to recommend, from other albums:
- State of Grace (the opener from Red - this is actually one of my favorite songs of hers. And I prefer the original to the re-recorded)
- The Archer (from Lover)
- Cornelia Street (from Lover)
All quite different stylistically, but really good imo.
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- State of Grace (the opener from Red - this is actually one of my favorite songs of hers. And I prefer the original to the re-recorded)
I'm gonna second this. I've heard some Swift songs over the years that I thought were decent but when I heard State of Grace, that actually made me want to make the deep dive into her discography. It's one of the most perfect pop-rock songs I've ever heard.
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I do generally like 80s-ish pop, though my success with the more mainstream throwbacks to it like some of Carly Rae Jepsen's albums have been kind of disappointing. I may give it a try anyway though.
You must’ve heard her song “Style”, I assume? If not, give it a try, I can see you enjoying that one
How do you know my taste so well? :lol Yes, I think I had heard that one before somewhere, and it's the best one on the album. "Wildest Dreams" is probably the second best.
But overall, I'm continuing to suspect she might not be an artist I'm going to love on an entire album basis. I just listened to 1989, and the rest of the album was mildly pleasant, but not particularly engrossing, unfortunately, just like Jepsen. I think the music I like vaguely in this realm is generally some combination of more melancholy, darker, artsier, lusher/more ethereal, and/or has stronger vocals. It's a bit too "happy" and middle of the road for me.
:lol
Well, I have a couple more songs to recommend, from other albums:
- State of Grace (the opener from Red - this is actually one of my favorite songs of hers. And I prefer the original to the re-recorded)
- The Archer (from Lover)
- Cornelia Street (from Lover)
All quite different stylistically, but really good imo.
obligatory comment that I think the live acoustic Cornelia Street is way better than the album version.
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I totally agree about the acoustic Cornelia Street (it slays the studio version), and I emphatically agree about State of Grace (one of her very best for sure).
Honestly, Red has so much variety and is such a colorful record that anyone looking to get into her cannot go wrong with tackling it. The original version of course.
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obligatory comment that I think the live acoustic Cornelia Street is way better than the album version.
I totally agree about the acoustic Cornelia Street (it slays the studio version), and I emphatically agree about State of Grace (one of her very best for sure).
I will humbly admit I do not know this version :) Has it been released somewhere? Or should I look for live performances on YT?
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obligatory comment that I think the live acoustic Cornelia Street is way better than the album version.
I totally agree about the acoustic Cornelia Street (it slays the studio version), and I emphatically agree about State of Grace (one of her very best for sure).
I will humbly admit I do not know this version :) Has it been released somewhere? Or should I look for live performances on YT?
This is the one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgt1d3eAm7A
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obligatory comment that I think the live acoustic Cornelia Street is way better than the album version.
I totally agree about the acoustic Cornelia Street (it slays the studio version), and I emphatically agree about State of Grace (one of her very best for sure).
I will humbly admit I do not know this version :) Has it been released somewhere? Or should I look for live performances on YT?
This is the one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgt1d3eAm7A
I’m surely repeating myself in this thread but the remarkable thing is this was the RELEASE party for Lover in Paris, France. So the people screaming the lyrics 1. english isn’t their first language and 2. the album had barely just come out.
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obligatory comment that I think the live acoustic Cornelia Street is way better than the album version.
I totally agree about the acoustic Cornelia Street (it slays the studio version), and I emphatically agree about State of Grace (one of her very best for sure).
I will humbly admit I do not know this version :) Has it been released somewhere? Or should I look for live performances on YT?
This is the one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgt1d3eAm7A
Wow, yes, this is real nice
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obligatory comment that I think the live acoustic Cornelia Street is way better than the album version.
I totally agree about the acoustic Cornelia Street (it slays the studio version), and I emphatically agree about State of Grace (one of her very best for sure).
I will humbly admit I do not know this version :) Has it been released somewhere? Or should I look for live performances on YT?
This is the one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgt1d3eAm7A
Wow, yes, this is real nice
It’s also available as a single on apple music, spotify etc.
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Glad you dug that, nick_z! :tup :tup
This stripped down version of Daylight from the same show also runs laps around the studio version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADVaZN3qpHQ
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It’s also available as a single on apple music, spotify etc.
Yep, saw it now...
Glad you dug that, nick_z! :tup :tup
This stripped down version of Daylight from the same show also runs laps around the studio version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADVaZN3qpHQ
Good stuff!! I guess there's no complete concert release for this?
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Not that I am aware of, and I believe those are the only two songs from that Paris show that got the stripped down treatment, but looking ahead, there are rumors that she will be releasing a live album early next year from the Eras tour, and supposedly several songs that were only surprise songs have been trademarked already with (live) added to the names, so the hope there is that a live album includes all or at least many of the surprise songs she did throughout 2023, plus other oddities like Nothing New (which got played at all the shows with Phoebe Bridgers), No Body No Crime (which got played at all the shows with HAIM) and Invisible String (which was played the first two weeks and then dropped from the set except for one show in Nashville).
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BTW how do you make threads you've previously posted in stop showing up in the "Show new replies to your posts." link? that's primarily how i have used this site
was just wondering if anyone had an answer to this, lol
I don't use this function, and would never think to do so. But I imagine you can't do what you're asking. It's not customizable, you either see replies or you don't.
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I wonder if the eventual streaming (or god forbid physical blu-ray!) release of Eras Tour will be a longer « director’s cut » with all the songs that were cut. That would be sweet.
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I wonder if the eventual streaming (or god forbid physical blu-ray!) release of Eras Tour will be a longer « director’s cut » with all the songs that were cut. That would be sweet.
I hope so, but I am not optimistic. My feeling is that if that were the plan, something other than Long Live would have been used over the credits at the end, but if the director's cut is the full concert with nothing cut, Long Live would be featured during the concert and then again at the end during the credits, which would seem a little strange, and I don't see her using a different credits songs in such a scenario since Long Live worked perfectly with all of the fan shots and "Errors Tour" moments that played over the credits.
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For people looking for bitchin' versions of Wildest Dreams:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGDkg3QiJmk&ab_channel=TaylorSwift
I remember having posted this and Kev commenting that he immediately knew which version I was talking about ;D now, for the others who missed it, here it is!
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Not bad
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For people looking for bitchin' versions of Wildest Dreams:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGDkg3QiJmk&ab_channel=TaylorSwift
I remember having posted this and Kev commenting that he immediately knew which version I was talking about ;D now, for the others who missed it, here it is!
Yep, that is a good one as well!
It's still wild to think that the album version of Wildest Dreams has never been played live in full. It was played on the 1989 in the mashup with Enchanted, it wasn't played on the Reputation tour, and the version being played on the current Eras tour is truncated.
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Travis Kelce is in Argentina for tonight's show (and presumably tomorrow's as well), and she changed the lyric at the end of the bridge in Karma to, "Karma is the guy on the Chiefs, coming straight home to me." ("Chiefs" replaced "screen") hahahaha
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speaking of Argentina, on the US tour they played some shows in pouring rain (some nights the start time was delayed) but that must’ve been some wild weather for them to move the friday show to sunday.
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Update...
Guitar is always first, piano second, except where indicated.
2023
Glendale, AZ night 1: Mirrorball and Tim McGraw
Glendale, AZ night 1: This Is Me Trying and State of Grace
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Our Song and Snow on the Beach
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Cowboy Like Me (w/ special guest Marcus Mumford) and White Horse
Arlington, TX night 1: Sad Beautiful Tragic and Ours
Arlington, TX night 2: Death by a Thousand Cuts and Clean
Arlington, TX night 3: Jump Then Fall and The Lucky One
Tampa, FL night 1: Speak Now and Treacherous
Tampa, FL night 2: The Great War (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and You're On Your Own, Kid
Tampa, FL night 3: Mad Woman (piano - w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mean (guitar)
Houston, TX night 1: Wonderland and You're Not Sorry
Houston, TX night 2: A Place in This World and Today Was a Fairytale
Houston, TX night 2: Begin Again and Cold As You
Atlanta, GA night 1: The Other Side of the Door and Coney Island
Atlanta, GA night 2: High Infidelity and Gorgeous
Atlanta, GA night 2: I Bet You Think About Me and How You Get the Girl
Nashville, TN night 1: Sparks Fly and Teardrops on My Guitar
Nashville, TN night 2: Out of the Woods and Fifteen
Nashville, TN night 3: Wouldve, Could've, Should've (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mine
Philadelphia, PA night 1: Gold Rush and Come Back...Be Here
Philadelphia, PA night 2: Forever & Always and This Love
Philadelphia, PA night 3: Hey Stephen and The Best Day
Foxborough, MA night 1: Should've Said No and Better Man
Foxborough, MA night 2: Question...? and Invisible
Foxborough, MA night 3: I Think He Knows and Red (both on guitar, since her piano malfunctioned due to rain from previous night)
East Rutherford, NJ night 1: Getaway Car (w/ special guest Jack Antonoff) and Maroon
East Rutherford, NJ night 2: Holy Ground and False God
East Rutherford, NJ night 3: Welcome to New York and Clean (the only repeat thus far)
Chicago, IL night 1: I Wish You Would and The Lakes
Chicago, IL night 2: You All Over Me (w/ special guest Maren Morris) and I Don't Wanna Live Forever
Chicago, IL night 3: Hits Different and The Moment I Knew
Detroit, MI night 1: Haunted and I Almost Do
Detroit, MI night 2: All You Had to Do Was Stay and Breathe
Pittsburgh, PA night 1: Mr. Perfectly Fine and The Last Time
Pittsburgh, PA night 2: Seven (piano w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and The Story of Us (guitar)
Minneapolis, MN night 1: Paper Rings and If This Was a Movie
Minneapolis, MN night 2: Dear John and Daylight
Cincinnati, OH night 1: I'm Only Me When I'm with You and Evermore
Cincinnati, OH night 2: Ivy (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner), I Miss You, I'm Sorry (guitar also w/ special guest Gracie Abrams) and Call It What You Want (first show to get three songs in the surprise songs "eras" section)
Kansas City, MO night 1: Never Grow Up and When Emma Falls in Love
Kansas City, MO night 2: Last Kiss and Dorothea
Denver, CO night 1: Picture to Burn and Timeless
Denver, CO night 2: Starlight and Back to December
Seattle, WA night 1: This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things and Everything Has Changed
Seattle, WA night 2: Message in a Bottle and Tied Together in a Smile
Santa Clara, CA night 1: Right Where You Left Me (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Castles Crumbling
Santa Clara, CA night 2: Stay Stay Stay and All of the Girls You Loved Before
Los Angeles, CA night 1: I Can See You and Marooned
Los Angeles, CA night 2: Our Song and You Are in Love
Los Angeles, CA night 3: Death by a Thousand Cuts and You're On Your Own, Kid
Los Angeles, CA night 4: Dress and Exile
Los Angeles, CA night 5: I Know Places and King of My Heart
Mexico City, Mexico night 1: I Forgot That You Existed and Sweet Nothing
Mexico City, Mexico night 2: Tell Me Why and Snow on the Beach
Mexico City, Mexico night 3: Cornelia Street and You're On Your Own, Kid
Mexico City, Mexico night 4: Afterglow and Maroon
Buenos Aires, Argentina night 1: The Very First Night and Labyrinth
Buenos Aires, Argentina night 2: Is It Over Now?/Out of the Woods mashup and End Game
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Update...
Guitar is always first, piano second, except where indicated.
2023
Glendale, AZ night 1: Mirrorball and Tim McGraw
Glendale, AZ night 1: This Is Me Trying and State of Grace
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Our Song and Snow on the Beach
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Cowboy Like Me (w/ special guest Marcus Mumford) and White Horse
Arlington, TX night 1: Sad Beautiful Tragic and Ours
Arlington, TX night 2: Death by a Thousand Cuts and Clean
Arlington, TX night 3: Jump Then Fall and The Lucky One
Tampa, FL night 1: Speak Now and Treacherous
Tampa, FL night 2: The Great War (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and You're On Your Own, Kid
Tampa, FL night 3: Mad Woman (piano - w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mean (guitar)
Houston, TX night 1: Wonderland and You're Not Sorry
Houston, TX night 2: A Place in This World and Today Was a Fairytale
Houston, TX night 2: Begin Again and Cold As You
Atlanta, GA night 1: The Other Side of the Door and Coney Island
Atlanta, GA night 2: High Infidelity and Gorgeous
Atlanta, GA night 2: I Bet You Think About Me and How You Get the Girl
Nashville, TN night 1: Sparks Fly and Teardrops on My Guitar
Nashville, TN night 2: Out of the Woods and Fifteen
Nashville, TN night 3: Wouldve, Could've, Should've (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mine
Philadelphia, PA night 1: Gold Rush and Come Back...Be Here
Philadelphia, PA night 2: Forever & Always and This Love
Philadelphia, PA night 3: Hey Stephen and The Best Day
Foxborough, MA night 1: Should've Said No and Better Man
Foxborough, MA night 2: Question...? and Invisible
Foxborough, MA night 3: I Think He Knows and Red (both on guitar, since her piano malfunctioned due to rain from previous night)
East Rutherford, NJ night 1: Getaway Car (w/ special guest Jack Antonoff) and Maroon
East Rutherford, NJ night 2: Holy Ground and False God
East Rutherford, NJ night 3: Welcome to New York and Clean (the only repeat thus far)
Chicago, IL night 1: I Wish You Would and The Lakes
Chicago, IL night 2: You All Over Me (w/ special guest Maren Morris) and I Don't Wanna Live Forever
Chicago, IL night 3: Hits Different and The Moment I Knew
Detroit, MI night 1: Haunted and I Almost Do
Detroit, MI night 2: All You Had to Do Was Stay and Breathe
Pittsburgh, PA night 1: Mr. Perfectly Fine and The Last Time
Pittsburgh, PA night 2: Seven (piano w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and The Story of Us (guitar)
Minneapolis, MN night 1: Paper Rings and If This Was a Movie
Minneapolis, MN night 2: Dear John and Daylight
Cincinnati, OH night 1: I'm Only Me When I'm with You and Evermore
Cincinnati, OH night 2: Ivy (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner), I Miss You, I'm Sorry (guitar also w/ special guest Gracie Abrams) and Call It What You Want (first show to get three songs in the surprise songs "eras" section)
Kansas City, MO night 1: Never Grow Up and When Emma Falls in Love
Kansas City, MO night 2: Last Kiss and Dorothea
Denver, CO night 1: Picture to Burn and Timeless
Denver, CO night 2: Starlight and Back to December
Seattle, WA night 1: This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things and Everything Has Changed
Seattle, WA night 2: Message in a Bottle and Tied Together in a Smile
Santa Clara, CA night 1: Right Where You Left Me (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Castles Crumbling
Santa Clara, CA night 2: Stay Stay Stay and All of the Girls You Loved Before
Los Angeles, CA night 1: I Can See You and Marooned
Los Angeles, CA night 2: Our Song and You Are in Love
Los Angeles, CA night 3: Death by a Thousand Cuts and You're On Your Own, Kid
Los Angeles, CA night 4: Dress and Exile
Los Angeles, CA night 5: I Know Places and King of My Heart
Mexico City, Mexico night 1: I Forgot That You Existed and Sweet Nothing
Mexico City, Mexico night 2: Tell Me Why and Snow on the Beach
Mexico City, Mexico night 3: Cornelia Street and You're On Your Own, Kid
Mexico City, Mexico night 4: Afterglow and Maroon
Buenos Aires, Argentina night 1: The Very First Night and Labyrinth
Buenos Aires, Argentina night 2: Is It Over Now?/Out of the Woods mashup and End Game
Buenos Aires, Argentina night 3: Better Than Revenge and Slut!
Six shows in Brazil coming up next!
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Buenos Aires, Argentina night 3: Better Than Revenge and Slut!
Which woman hurt her before that night? :lol
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Buenos Aires, Argentina night 3: Better Than Revenge and Slut!
Which woman hurt her before that night? :lol
Kelce's ex is posting shit again! :) :) :)
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at the Rio de janeiro show yesterday, heat and dehydration caused a young girl to faint, go into cardiac arrest and eventually die
https://amp.theguardian.com/music/2023/nov/18/taylor-swift-fan-dies-before-brazil-concert-amid-sweltering-conditions
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Yep, a very sad and tragic story.
I get that venues do not let us bring in drinks because they want us to buy them there and spend money, but when it's that blistering hot, exceptions should be made. Looks like they changed it starting at tonight's 2nd show, but it's awful that it took someone dying for it to happen.
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the heat is still an issue so apparently they’ve postponed tonight’s show! Man this south american leg is off to a rocky start, for reasons beyond her control.
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There are rumors as well that she wanted to postpone last night's show because of the extreme heat, but the stadium and the company who booked it wouldn't allow it. And look what happened.
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There are rumors as well that she wanted to postpone last night's show because of the extreme heat, but the stadium and the company who booked it wouldn't allow it. And look what happened.
Where was the show, Kev?
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There are rumors as well that she wanted to postpone last night's show because of the extreme heat, but the stadium and the company who booked it wouldn't allow it. And look what happened.
Where was the show, Kev?
Rio de Janeiro in Brazil. 3 shows set for there - Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Tonight's was moved to Monday. Will be interesting to see how this goes, as some fans are apparently acting the fool down there due to be upset about tonight's postponement, and word from those close is that Taylor is devastated that this happened to a fan.
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Interesting. Thank you.
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From the looks of it on Twitter, she put on her best game face for tonight's show, but you could hear her voice get a little shaky when singing Bigger Than the Whole Sky as one of the surprise songs (which have to have been chosen to honor to fan who lost her life Friday). There was also no fire effect tonight during Bad Blood, which I am sure she chose to not use for obvious reasons. Oh, and it rained for most of the show.
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Update now that the 2023 portion of the tour is over.
Counting songs from the main set, the few minor changes that were made along the way, and the below surprise songs, 173 songs played on the tour this year.
Guitar is always first, piano second, except where indicated.
2023
Glendale, AZ night 1: Mirrorball and Tim McGraw
Glendale, AZ night 1: This Is Me Trying and State of Grace
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Our Song and Snow on the Beach
Las Vegas, NV night 1: Cowboy Like Me (w/ special guest Marcus Mumford) and White Horse
Arlington, TX night 1: Sad Beautiful Tragic and Ours
Arlington, TX night 2: Death by a Thousand Cuts and Clean
Arlington, TX night 3: Jump Then Fall and The Lucky One
Tampa, FL night 1: Speak Now and Treacherous
Tampa, FL night 2: The Great War (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and You're On Your Own, Kid
Tampa, FL night 3: Mad Woman (piano - w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mean (guitar)
Houston, TX night 1: Wonderland and You're Not Sorry
Houston, TX night 2: A Place in This World and Today Was a Fairytale
Houston, TX night 2: Begin Again and Cold As You
Atlanta, GA night 1: The Other Side of the Door and Coney Island
Atlanta, GA night 2: High Infidelity and Gorgeous
Atlanta, GA night 2: I Bet You Think About Me and How You Get the Girl
Nashville, TN night 1: Sparks Fly and Teardrops on My Guitar
Nashville, TN night 2: Out of the Woods and Fifteen
Nashville, TN night 3: Wouldve, Could've, Should've (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Mine
Philadelphia, PA night 1: Gold Rush and Come Back...Be Here
Philadelphia, PA night 2: Forever & Always and This Love
Philadelphia, PA night 3: Hey Stephen and The Best Day
Foxborough, MA night 1: Should've Said No and Better Man
Foxborough, MA night 2: Question...? and Invisible
Foxborough, MA night 3: I Think He Knows and Red (both on guitar, since her piano malfunctioned due to rain from previous night)
East Rutherford, NJ night 1: Getaway Car (w/ special guest Jack Antonoff) and Maroon
East Rutherford, NJ night 2: Holy Ground and False God
East Rutherford, NJ night 3: Welcome to New York and Clean (the only repeat thus far)
Chicago, IL night 1: I Wish You Would and The Lakes
Chicago, IL night 2: You All Over Me (w/ special guest Maren Morris) and I Don't Wanna Live Forever
Chicago, IL night 3: Hits Different and The Moment I Knew
Detroit, MI night 1: Haunted and I Almost Do
Detroit, MI night 2: All You Had to Do Was Stay and Breathe
Pittsburgh, PA night 1: Mr. Perfectly Fine and The Last Time
Pittsburgh, PA night 2: Seven (piano w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and The Story of Us (guitar)
Minneapolis, MN night 1: Paper Rings and If This Was a Movie
Minneapolis, MN night 2: Dear John and Daylight
Cincinnati, OH night 1: I'm Only Me When I'm with You and Evermore
Cincinnati, OH night 2: Ivy (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner), I Miss You, I'm Sorry (guitar also w/ special guest Gracie Abrams) and Call It What You Want (first show to get three songs in the surprise songs "eras" section)
Kansas City, MO night 1: Never Grow Up and When Emma Falls in Love
Kansas City, MO night 2: Last Kiss and Dorothea
Denver, CO night 1: Picture to Burn and Timeless
Denver, CO night 2: Starlight and Back to December
Seattle, WA night 1: This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things and Everything Has Changed
Seattle, WA night 2: Message in a Bottle and Tied Together in a Smile
Santa Clara, CA night 1: Right Where You Left Me (w/ special guest Aaron Dessner) and Castles Crumbling
Santa Clara, CA night 2: Stay Stay Stay and All of the Girls You Loved Before
Los Angeles, CA night 1: I Can See You and Marooned
Los Angeles, CA night 2: Our Song and You Are in Love
Los Angeles, CA night 3: Death by a Thousand Cuts and You're On Your Own, Kid
Los Angeles, CA night 4: Dress and Exile
Los Angeles, CA night 5: I Know Places and King of My Heart
Mexico City, Mexico night 1: I Forgot That You Existed and Sweet Nothing
Mexico City, Mexico night 2: Tell Me Why and Snow on the Beach
Mexico City, Mexico night 3: Cornelia Street and You're On Your Own, Kid
Mexico City, Mexico night 4: Afterglow and Maroon
Buenos Aires, Argentina night 1: The Very First Night and Labyrinth
Buenos Aires, Argentina night 2: Is It Over Now?/Out of the Woods mashup and End Game
Buenos Aires, Argentina night 3: Better Than Revenge and Slut!
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil night 1: Stay Beautiful and Suburban Legends
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil night 2: Dancing with Our Hands Tied and Bigger Than the Whole Sky
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil night 3: ME! and So It Goes...
Sao Paulo, Brazil night 1: Now That We Don't Talk and Innocent
Sao Paulo, Brazil night 2: Safe & Sound and Untouchable
Sao Paulo, Brazil night 3: Say Don't Go and It's Time to Go
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I keep seeing that she’s « resetting » the surprise songs for 2024, I’m assuming it’s something she said from stage in Sao Paulo but I can’t find a decent source. I’m guessing it means she will be singing those songs again in 2024 which makes sense. It’ll still be a surprise for most fans.
Also the Eras tour movie is coming out on digital on her birthday december 13th! AND it’s an extended cut including songs that weren’t in the theatrical version(yesss)
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I meant to say that earlier as well about resetting the surprise songs for the 2024 shows. I saw the clip on X, so it is legit.
As for the Extended Version of the Eras tour coming to streaming, it is adding three of the five songs that were omitted from the theatrical version (Cardigan and No Body, No Crime will still be MIA).
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and I think it was you Kev who mentioned it would be strange if they added back in Long live
because it’s already the end credits song? I wonder if that’ll change
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Time will tell, but I would guess no. The closing credits are so well put together, and it's like Long Live was made for them, so I don't see that changing.
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I meant to say that earlier as well about resetting the surprise songs for the 2024 shows. I saw the clip on X, so it is legit.
As for the Extended Version of the Eras tour coming to streaming, it is adding three of the five songs that were omitted from the theatrical version (Cardigan and No Body, No Crime will still be MIA).
"Resetting" meaning, you'll start seeing 'repeats' (I hate using that word, because I don't want to imply that it's a bad thing or a cop out, I just don't know how to articulate it).
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She plays 40 songs in the show, if she'd only pick songs to play once for the two solo spots, she'd soon run out of songs in her catalogue.
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I meant to say that earlier as well about resetting the surprise songs for the 2024 shows. I saw the clip on X, so it is legit.
As for the Extended Version of the Eras tour coming to streaming, it is adding three of the five songs that were omitted from the theatrical version (Cardigan and No Body, No Crime will still be MIA).
"Resetting" meaning, you'll start seeing 'repeats' (I hate using that word, because I don't want to imply that it's a bad thing or a cop out, I just don't know how to articulate it).
She had said at the start of the tour that the surprise songs will only get played once, with the self-imposed rule that Midnights songs can get played more than once, as well as anything she messes up.
Resetting means she is starting from scratch with the surprise songs for the 2024 portion of the tour.
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I meant to say that earlier as well about resetting the surprise songs for the 2024 shows. I saw the clip on X, so it is legit.
As for the Extended Version of the Eras tour coming to streaming, it is adding three of the five songs that were omitted from the theatrical version (Cardigan and No Body, No Crime will still be MIA).
"Resetting" meaning, you'll start seeing 'repeats' (I hate using that word, because I don't want to imply that it's a bad thing or a cop out, I just don't know how to articulate it).
She had said at the start of the tour that the surprise songs will only get played once, with the self-imposed rule that Midnights songs can get played more than once, as well as anything she messes up.
Resetting means she is starting from scratch with the surprise songs for the 2024 portion of the tour.
Ok. I meant my post as a question, I just forgot the little "?" thingy. ;)
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Great interview with Aaron Dessner.
https://people.com/aaron-dessner-recalls-taylor-swift-cooking-everyone-breakfast-and-dinner-exclusive-8410981
What do you admire most about Taylor's artistry and songwriting?
I think Taylor is one of the greatest songwriters of all time. The poetic and literary bent of her lyricism, where songs often have elaborately woven narratives and hidden meanings that connect to her earlier or future work, what her fans call "easter eggs," helps to create an entire artistic world that we all get to inhabit and obsess over as her fans. I love the sense of belonging that this creates in Taylor's music, where joy, overcoming adversity, shattering patriarchal structures and celebrating diversity are so prevalent as themes. She is an absolute genius and thankfully also a truly wonderful human being.
Do you have any memories from the studio or a writing session that stick out to you as an example of just why Taylor is so good at her craft?
There are so many stories I could share. When I sent Taylor the music for our song "Willow" — I think she wrote the entire song from start to finish in less than 10 minutes and sent it back to me. It was like an earthquake. Then Taylor said, "I guess we are making another album."
You met back in 2014, but you have said that 1989 was the first album you really listened to as a fan. What about it drew you in?
I think 1989 is a perfect pop record and I used to have so much fun blasting it. I was drawn in by hearing "Blank Space" on the radio and just feeling like it was an impossibly perfect pop song. Once I heard the entire record I remember just sensing that Taylor was some kind of incredibly rare unicorn of a singer and songwriter.
Are there any anecdotes that come to mind that speak to Taylor's work ethic, and how she's able to balance everything from re-records to concerts to award shows to her daily life?
Taylor is the hardest working artist I've ever encountered. She is involved in every aspect of writing and producing her songs and has an incredible attention span and focus on detail. And she never really stops writing songs. The world has seen her play 44 songs a night on tour now, performing for over three hours. She makes it look easy but it's really a feat of incredible endurance. It's hard to think of an example of someone who matches that kind of output, except maybe Bruce Springsteen, but he doesn't have to cover as much ground as Taylor does up there.
Similarly, I've spent a lot of time with her and I've never seen anyone wait on her. When I have stayed at her house, Taylor herself was cooking everyone breakfast and dinner. She's legitimately just a very down to earth and hardworking person.
When you wrote Folklore and Evermore, it was peak pandemic and the world was different. What's it like for you now to see those albums that were written in solitude performed for tens of thousands of people?
It was quite surreal to be honest. When Taylor first texted me about writing remotely with her during the pandemic, I almost didn't believe it was her at first. And then as we were working on Folklore, we had almost no outside interaction with anyone on her team or label, much less the outside world of her millions and millions of fans.
Taylor never made me feel any of the shadow of her previous work or success. There was no pressure at all. It was as though we were just making an album for ourselves and passing time during the pandemic. It felt like we were on our own private artistic life raft, just making songs to soothe our souls and get through such an uncertain and difficult time.
When the album was finally shared with the world, and that feeling became something shared cathartically with millions and millions of people around the world, it was really something I will never forget. We were on FaceTime at midnight on the night Folklore came out and the first reviews and responses started coming in and it was really one of the most exhilarating, life-affirming feelings I have ever had. The fragile songs we had made remotely during lockdown were suddenly becoming part of the fabric of so many people's lives.
You joined her onstage for a few Eras Tour stops. What was it like backstage for you?
It's really hard to describe what it feel like to be raised up on a hydraulic into a stadium of 80,000 fans who have already been experiencing the best concert they have ever seen for two and a half hours, as I would join Taylor onstage towards the end of the show. But Taylor was so generous in her introductions and it's really such a special moment for us to be able to play some of these songs acoustically for her fans. It's hard to describe how exhilarating it was to play "Would've, Could've, Should've" in the pouring rain acoustically in Nashville.
What's something about Taylor that people would be surprised to learn?
Maybe it's so not so surprising, but she's a very, very good cook and a great visual artist too.
Between Midnights and the Eras Tour, she's really at the top of her game. How do you see her evolving and growing from here?
I think Taylor has so many stories to tell. She will keep writing better and better songs and experimenting stylistically. She sometimes jokes that she likes to change what she writes her songs with literally, sometimes it's an ink or glitter pen, or with me it's often more like a 19th-century quill. I think she'll keep inventing new ways and methods of writing and keep expanding this enchanted universe of her own making that we all get to enjoy.
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thanks for sharing that kev!
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Taylor Swift is Times person of the year. Oh boy I can already hear the cries of « I’m so sick of hearing about her! »
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Yep, just saw!!
https://time.com/6342806/person-of-the-year-2023-taylor-swift/
I will have to read this later, it is long.
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The world has seen her play 44 songs a night on tour now, performing for over three hours. She makes it look easy but it's really a feat of incredible endurance. It's hard to think of an example of someone who matches that kind of output, except maybe Bruce Springsteen, but he doesn't have to cover as much ground as Taylor does up there.
What does he mean by the bolded part?
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The world has seen her play 44 songs a night on tour now, performing for over three hours. She makes it look easy but it's really a feat of incredible endurance. It's hard to think of an example of someone who matches that kind of output, except maybe Bruce Springsteen, but he doesn't have to cover as much ground as Taylor does up there.
What does he mean by the bolded part?
My guess would be the dancing. Also that Bruce does Guitar/vocals while Taylor does Piano/Guitar/Vocals :dunno:
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The world has seen her play 44 songs a night on tour now, performing for over three hours. She makes it look easy but it's really a feat of incredible endurance. It's hard to think of an example of someone who matches that kind of output, except maybe Bruce Springsteen, but he doesn't have to cover as much ground as Taylor does up there.
What does he mean by the bolded part?
good question, I was also a little bit puzzled. Does he mean physical ground as in her stage is bigger?
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I assumed he meant a wider variety of material when it comes to genres/styles, plus pretty much all of her songs are vocal-heavy, while I know Bruce's songs tend to have more solos/live jams. Ultimately, comparing the two is probably not necessary.
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congrats on taylor swift joining the likes of Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Barack Obama, and YOU (us all?) as the Time Person of the year alumni
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The world has seen her play 44 songs a night on tour now, performing for over three hours. She makes it look easy but it's really a feat of incredible endurance. It's hard to think of an example of someone who matches that kind of output, except maybe Bruce Springsteen, but he doesn't have to cover as much ground as Taylor does up there.
What does he mean by the bolded part?
My guess would be the dancing. Also that Bruce does Guitar/vocals while Taylor does Piano/Guitar/Vocals :dunno:
Bruce plays piano too, sometimes. And while he doesn't dance, he is extremely physical in his shows, running around, jumping, and generally rocking out. There are few people who expend more energy in a live show that Bruce.
I assumed he meant a wider variety of material when it comes to genres/styles, plus pretty much all of her songs are vocal-heavy, while I know Bruce's songs tend to have more solos/live jams. Ultimately, comparing the two is probably not necessary.
Bruce's songs are vocal-heavy. He may have more solos/jams than Taylor, but they aren't Phish. And he plays a ton of different styles.
So I'm a little mystified. I have no idea what he means by that.
I am in no way denigrating Taylor Swift and the effort she puts into, well, everything.
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I have never seen Bruce, but I have seen enough footage to know that he is a ball of energy up there on stage. Like I said, comparing the two doesn't seem needed. There was a lot of other good stuff in Dessner's comments without getting too hung up on the one comment, IMO.
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I have never seen Bruce, but I have seen enough footage to know that he is a ball of energy up there on stage. Like I said, comparing the two doesn't seem needed. There was a lot of other good stuff in Dessner's comments without getting too hung up on the one comment, IMO.
I know. That was just the one that made no sense to me lol
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It was an exceedingly positive article about Taylor, and so I took the comment in that spirit. Meaning, I took it as "Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band" vs. "Taylor Swift".
Who is Taylor's sax player? Clarence "The Big Man" Clemons got his own spot (now his nephew does). Who is Taylor's drummer? Max Weinberg - the musical director of Conan O'brien's old late night show - gets his own moment in a Bruce show. Who is Taylor's guitar player? Little Stevie Van Zandt gets about as big a reception as Bruce does during the introductions!!
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I hadn't thought of it that way, but that is interesting for sure.
I thought that Time article was fantastic. It really gave you a window into her and how she does and approaches things. Some of it we already knew, but a lot of new stuff in there. I liked the part about how she got in shape for the Eras tour set list by doing cardio every day and singing the set list the whole time she ran and going faster for the faster songs and doing a slow run/fast walk for the slower songs.
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I hadn't thought of it that way, but that is interesting for sure.
I thought that Time article was fantastic. It really gave you a window into her and how she does and approaches things. Some of it we already knew, but a lot of new stuff in there. I liked the part about how she got in shape for the Eras tour set list by doing cardio every day and singing the set list the whole time she ran and going faster for the faster songs and doing a slow run/fast walk for the slower songs.
The latter thing a trick shared by none other than Mr. Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden. It would thrill me to no end if she got that from him.
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After all, is there much difference between Taylor Swift counting seconds as she runs backstage to get a change of dress, and Bruce Dickinson counting seconds as he runs backstage to wear a flamethrower? :lol
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After all, is there much difference between Taylor Swift counting seconds as she runs backstage to get a change of dress, and Bruce Dickinson counting seconds as he runs backstage to wear a flamethrower? :lol
Not until Bruce puts on the dress and Taylor puts on the flamethrower. ;)
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Well, to be fair, the Era tour is so lavish and grandiose that, if a specific lyrical line would call for it, a flamethrower wouldn't even be THAT out of place ;D
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I hadn't thought of it that way, but that is interesting for sure.
I thought that Time article was fantastic. It really gave you a window into her and how she does and approaches things. Some of it we already knew, but a lot of new stuff in there. I liked the part about how she got in shape for the Eras tour set list by doing cardio every day and singing the set list the whole time she ran and going faster for the faster songs and doing a slow run/fast walk for the slower songs.
The latter thing a trick shared by none other than Mr. Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden. It would thrill me to no end if she got that from him.
Oh, nice! See, you learn something new every day. :tup :tup
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After all, is there much difference between Taylor Swift counting seconds as she runs backstage to get a change of dress, and Bruce Dickinson counting seconds as he runs backstage to wear a flamethrower? :lol
Not until Bruce puts on the dress and Taylor puts on the flamethrower. ;)
She doesn’t need any ideas!
Cut to next year when she puts I Did Something Bad in the rep era permanently.
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Happy birthday Taylor Swift, december 13th 1989 so 34 years old today
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Happy birthday to the person of the year! :metal
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So I'm reading that the Eras tour movie that got released digitally today and is ONLY available for rent for $19.89. Also the extra songs are tacked to the end of the movie is a weird move.
I think typically for movies when they get released digitally, they are made available for purchase only followed by rentals and then eventual streaming. Will be interesting to see if a physical disc release every happens.
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disappointing that the extra songs are not integrated, but it explains why Long Live is likely still the credits song, they didn’t actually re edit anything in the feature itself. I assume it will available to buy digital soon but I would’ve liked them to announce the date now. Or maybe it will go to one of the big subscriptions streamers.
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So our girl, while busy playing 3 hours shows around the world, going to sport games (annoying people in the process) and generically suggesting people to register to vote (also annoying even more people in the process), found the time to write and record a brand new album!!!
And the occasion to announce it was.... her Grammy victory for Midnights! boy, she's on a roll.
The new album is called The Tortured Poems Department and is out 19th April. Minimalistic album cover, and immediately I hope - 'cause I can't let go of Folklore and Evermore - that it's going to be another acoustic album.
Wikipedia has (obviously) an article about what little we know about it so far. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tortured_Poets_Department)
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She's certainly on a roll. Gotta be honest and say Midnights didn't really leave much of a mark on me (certainly not after Folklore/Evermore) but good on her.
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Yeah, all in all Midnights is middle of the road, it's only my sudden appreciation for her and the "honeymoon phase" I had with folklore/evermore that allowed me to take the time with the album and enjoy it, if I didn't know her and that was the first album I heard from her, I'd just be "whatever, generic pop album, Anti-Hero is catchy but that's it" and move on.
I'm curious about this next one however, and even if it's not an "indie" one, we can be sure that Youtube is gonna be flooded with acoustic and rock remixes of it :D
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I like how there's still a counter on her page for the deadline to pre order the Collector's edition even though it sold out last night. In fact, last night it still brought me to the page where I had to "wait in line" for 15 minutes even though it had already sold out.
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As someone who primarily experiences Taylor Swift through car rides with my daughter, I thought Midnights was pretty good.
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Tracklist for The Tortured Poets Department:
Side A
Fortnight (feat. Post Malone)
The Tortured Poets Department
My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys
Down Bad
Side B
So Long, London
But Daddy I Love Him
Fresh Out the Slammer
Florida!!! (Florence + the Machine)
Side C
Guilty as Sin?
Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me?
I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can)
loml
Side D
I Can Do It With a Broken Heart
The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived
The Alchemy
Clara Bow
Bonus Track: The Manuscript
Feels like a Lana Del Rey album, and for the record, if I can't get a folk or rock album, I'm totally down for her own version of Lana's melanchonic and cinematic styie :laugh:
I selfishly hope for as little dance and hip hop as possible.
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Having Florence + The Machine as a guest kind of piques my interest.
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They say don't judge a book by its cover, but some of those names!
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They say don't judge a book by its cover, but some of those names!
i didn't wanna be the first to say it but yeah some of those names are cringe as hell lmao
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Dragionforce covering TAYLOR SWIFT
https://lotsofmuzik.com/dragonforce-covers-taylor-swift-with-wildest-dreams-dragonforces-version-new-video-out-now/
:metal
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My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys
I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can)
The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived
Swifties get to play another game of "match the ex to the song" now.
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If anyone has 15 minutes to spare, there's an absolutely insane mega mix of 230 songs into a surprisingly coherent way on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NKwoSa3LBk&ab_channel=JosephJames
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So, the Eras Tour movie is out on Disney+, anyone saw it yet?
I did (over the Easter long weekend, I like Taylor, but I don't "sit 3 hours and a half straight through her songs" like her), and it's fantastic.
Sure, I knew the concept of the show, I saw the YouTube clips, but seeing in high definition on the big TV screen was something else. Excellent direction (look, Steve Harris, I worship you and I would like for you to be immortal but your videos are way too frantic), absolutely amazing stage and show concept, and something I assume her fans will remember forever.
I must admit I skipped through some of the songs I just don't like, but overall I watched 90%, if not 95% of it, and the grandeur of it all really came alive. Also the eras order were excellent, she always crafted some clever contrasts strategically placing Evermore and Folklore by having them follow up by totally different albums. If you're not crazy about a specific album, the next segment of the show is gonna get you excited (and the other way around).
I've never been a musical elitist, and if I even had 20 years ago a "metal is everything, and everything else sucks" I quickly grew out of it, but I guess from time to time I must have felt for pop fans who wouldn't know the majesty and the glory of seeing Iron Maiden and the plane and the pyros and Eddie walking around and the changing backdrops and Eddie walking around and everything, but now I'm thinking that Taylor fans are pitying other people who are never going to see as how as wonderful as this :lol it's really an amazing show and well, it'd better be, given the insane ticket prices!
I would never pay a third of my salary to got and see this show, and the italian date is long sold out anyway, but if by any absurd chance there would be a way to sneak into the concert - actually the wife of a coworker somehow managed to get some work as checking-stuff-at-the-gates person - I would gladly jump onto it.
And if one day she's gonna make an entire show of Folklore and Evermore with the sceneries she used (Willow became basically a folk metal song!), yeah, that I would pay for ;D
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I recently clicked on a Taylor Swift clip on Instagram, which led to me getting more and more Taylor Swift clips popping up. I had never listened to any of her music or even seen an interview with her. I must say, I was very impressed by everything -- from her musicianship to her fashion sense to her stage presence to the way she conducts herself in interviews. She is amazing. She is also much more gorgeous than I ever realized, and with her awesome personality and talent she is pretty much the ultimate woman. Travis Kelce is one lucky dude!
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Watched a little bit with my wife. Have to admit I was skeptical that she was singing through the more dance type songs. But she did some songs just at the piano at the end which seemed pretty genuine. Definitely a stunning film visually.
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Yeah, she's really able to sing, but let's chalk it up to "the video must have been out of sync with the audio" the impressions I got as well of her not really singing while she was running / dancing a lot.
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The Eras tour FINALLY comes to Europe from May through to August. It seems very odd to release a new album during an ongoing tour. if she adds new songs from Tortured Poets to the set, fans will be upset at the songs she has to drop to make way for them. But if not, they'll be disappointed that she hasn't.
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I watched the first 20 mins or so of eras.. Definitely impressive. She is one hell of a presence and performer. I mean, ONE person in the centre of all that. Amazing.
I'm not sure I can watch it all in one go but will probably end up watching it all bit by bit over the next little while.
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I watched the Eras Tour on Disney+ (didn't see the concert live but my daughters did). I thought it was great. Not sure if it is because I'm a 'heavy metal' guy at heart but my favourite song was Look What You Made Me Do, a track I didn't previously care for but the heavier more rock arrangement of this song really appealed to me. At the other end of the scale some of the quieter more emotional tracks like Tolerate It were also great.
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This fucking woman just made a billion dollars on her Eras tour, and she's going to pull this shit again with her new album where you have to buy multiple copies to get all the content? 3 different Target exclusives with different bonus tracks. Before those three songs would have been all included on the exclusive. Oh but each version has a different poster too. Fuck off. I am not buying 3 copies of this for my wife. I'm at the point where I never want to hear Taylor Swift again for the rest of my life. There's no parental advisory sticker. Maybe there won't be any cringy gratuitous out of place edgelord swearing on this one.
Has there even been a single released yet? I bet it sounds like Taylor Swift. Who knows, maybe this one will be good. There's a bit of a pattern going on.
Reputation, Lover - crap
Folklore, Evermore - pretty good
Midnights - meh
Dead Poets Society - decent?
Although, an album called Tortured Poets Department could have the cringiest lyrics she's ever written.
Sorry, rant over.
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Setting aside the fact I find her music mediocre at best, I fully agree on the argument against all the vinyl exclusives. Whether you love her or dislike her it's nothing more than a shameless cash grab.
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Here's an option: don't buy it. I mean, I say that to be funny, but it's kind of true. It wouldn't happen if people didn't want it. There are people here that have Mike's underwear after the Prague gig in '97 or some equally obscure thing; that's what collectors do. I mean, I do feel bad for the completists - I hate when I have to get eight different CDs to get the material - but that's me, I'm not the target audience.
I feel the same way about the Rush releases with the vinyl that I'm not interested in and live shows that seem cobbled together. And the Ozzy releases that arbitrarily cut songs out or were otherwise incomplete (there is still stuff from EPs/12" Singles during the Randy era that are hard or impossible to find).
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Well, the track Guilty as Sin references The Blue Nile’s “The Downtown Lights,” so that’s pretty awesome.
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So it seems that The Tortured Poets Department is secretly a double album :omg:
EDIT: so basically the second album is a collection of all the single bonus tracks, plus other tracks that were so far hidden. I can't help but join the complaints about the different editions then; it's kinda exploitative to make different editions with a single, different song as bonus track, and have all of them together anyway on the double album version.
For better reference: it's like Dream Theater in the Black Clouds era would have made different versions of the album available for pre-order each with a different, stand alone cover (the "Stargazer edition", the "Queen edition" etc...) only to reveal upon release date that they were all together on a bonus disc anyway.
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Well, I'm afraid this new album continues in much the same vein as the last three. It all just blurs into one for me. Musically, these releases just aren't especially interesting. That said, I remain a huge fan of hers and am still gutted I can't attend the Eras tour.
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Just had my first listen to the new album that dropped today, and man, I hate to say it, but I couldn't even make it through the whole thing. As someone who really enjoyed Folklore and Evermore, I was hoping for that same captivating experience, but this one just felt so dull. All the songs I heard sound like the same uninteresting song.
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Man, I really hope this is some kind of joke. This album sounds like a bunch of Midnights b-sides. Talk about laaaaazy :/ I hope her fanbase uses this opportunity to teach her a lesson about releasing clearly below-her-talents-quality music and doesn't buy this thing en masse. She's already a billionaire FFS
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Was gonna give it a fair listen but these reviews aren't really making me excited (also there's about 6-7 other albums dropping today that are on my radar). My dad who is neutral on Taylor Swift and positive towards most music in general said he heard one of her new songs on radio this morning and it sounded like "music you hear in the background of a vacuum cleaner commercial" so he didn't seem overly enthusiastic either. But most bands or artists have a dud or two in their catalogue!
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Was gonna give it a fair listen but these reviews aren't really making me excited (also there's about 6-7 other albums dropping today that are on my radar). My dad who is neutral on Taylor Swift and positive towards most music in general said he heard one of her new songs on radio this morning and it sounded like "music you hear in the background of a vacuum cleaner commercial" so he didn't seem overly enthusiastic either. But most bands or artists have a dud or two in their catalogue!
Yeah all the organic, the the ground early reports I've read or heard have been really poor, but of course that hasn't stopped The Independent, The Times, The Daily Telegraph, and Rolling Stone all from granting it "Instant Classic" status. Talk about a blatant shill :rollin
Seriously though, I sincerely hope the fans stop just thoughtlessly lapping her up. It's getting really cult-like and weird.
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I have no interest in anything Taylor Swift, but this new album title is the most laughably pretentious thing I've ever heard.
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My "journey" with TS has been interesting. I became a fan and saw her on the Fearless tour, but as I've alluded to, her behavior, artistic output, and overall vibe have just been cruising downhill without brakes for a few years now and it got to the point where I couldn't even listen to her anymore. Seeing her on the Eras tour felt like a good conclusion to the "money spending" portion of my fandom and I decided from that point to just listen to her new stuff without any further commitment, but this new album is just so laughably bad I had to speak up.
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For me it was way simpler:
- Barely aware of the fact that there was a singer named Taylor Swift existed
- Wondered why the hell there was an active topic about her here
- Fell in love madly with Folklore and Evemore
- Hoped Midnights would be in the same vein
- Hoped the new album would be in the same vein
- Hoping 'til the end of time any other new album would be in the same vein, enjoying some songs here and there from her catalogue, especially rock or acoustic remixes
The Eras Tour however is an amazing and monumental show.
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Seriously though, I sincerely hope the fans stop just thoughtlessly lapping her up. It's getting really cult-like and weird.
This is what gets me but I know Taylor Swift is far from the only artist this applies to. But it is perfectly reasonable and normal as a fan to not say every release is a 10/10 masterpiece.
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I thought Midnights was one of her stronger albums actually. Haven’t heard this yet (beyond the song which references The Blue Nile, who are awesome).
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I have no interest in anything Taylor Swift, but this new album title is the most laughably pretentious thing I've ever heard.
"Tales from Topographic Oceans". "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway". "Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Works, Vol. 1".
:) :) :) :) :)
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"Tales from Topographic Oceans". "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway". "Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Works, Vol. 1".
:) :) :) :) :)
Also, the title is not in reference to her as a writer. It's a reference/nod to the person the song is about. She is way more complex and has a lot of nuggets that most DT fans could appreciate even if you don't like the music.
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I have no interest in anything Taylor Swift, but this new album title is the most laughably pretentious thing I've ever heard.
Wait until you read the song titles.
I'm still going to give this album a fair listen when I get the chance, but given the reviews by people who seem to enjoy her music, I am expecting to hate it.
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I thought Midnights was one of her stronger albums actually. Haven’t heard this yet (beyond the song which references The Blue Nile, who are awesome).
If you liked Midnights - as I did - you will like this. It is a lot of things, but "laughably bad" is not one of them. I have no idea what each person expected, and so it may not be that, but this is Taylor Swift's music. You either dig it or you don't and if you don't that doesn't mean it's a "cash grab" or "bad".
I haven't digested all of it yet, and so haven't figured out how all the pieces fit together, but I think what I've heard is pretty good. The songs that are clearly about Joe - So Long, London, My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys - are emotional and in some cases heartbreaking, and I can see a LOT of people - men and women - relating to them. If you can't so be it, but that doesn't factor into how "good" it is. The songs with less obvious connection - But Daddy I Love Him* - will take time, but that's part of the fun. I only heard one clunker so far (Florida!!! kind of sucks, but that could be because I don't like Florence + The Machine, and "Florence" sings most of the track).
* Great line in that: "But I love him and I'm having his baby. No I'm not but you should have seen your faces."
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Based on her own previous discography the new one is very obviously (to me) several steps below all her other ones she's done recently. It's the Reputation of her last batch of records. As someone said earlier, they can't all be good, and it's totally fair for fans to acknowledge a stinker when it drops.
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Just wanted to add that the diss track about Kim Kardashian is really egregious lmao
Eight years on, TS remains hyperfixated on what she describes as a "traumatic cancellation", but was actually just people mocking her for a few days. She brought it up in the Netflix doc, her Time profile... now this diss track. In the year of our lord 2024, my god, how is her skin so thin? The vindictiveness and victimization complex would be annoying in an up-and-comer, but in a billionare at the pinnacle of cultural power it's downright deranged!!! Girl, you're not an underdog and haven't been for years. Get over yourself
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Just wanted to add that the diss track about Kim Kardashian is really egregious lmao
Eight years on, TS remains hyperfixated on what she describes as a "traumatic cancellation", but was actually just people mocking her for a few days. She brought it up in the Netflix doc, her Time profile... now this diss track. In the year of our lord 2024, my god, how is her skin so thin? The vindictiveness and victimization complex would be annoying in an up-and-comer, but in a billionare at the pinnacle of cultural power it's downright deranged!!! Girl, you're not an underdog and haven't been for years. Get over yourself
Wow, okay. Maybe she's not for you, then? Do you also tell Roger Waters - fucking billionaire - to "get over his father's death already"? Maybe we should tell Neal to "give the fucking Jesus thing a rest, will you?". How about Bruce; hasn't worked a day in his blessed life, but that stubborn bastard just WILL NOT stop writing about the factory worker! Man!
Writers write about what inspires them. If it doesn't connect with you, so be it. I have a list as long as my arm - actually longer, probably closer to as long as my weiner - of bands I don't connect with. I don't question their motives, I just listen to something else.
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Wow, okay. Maybe she's not for you, then?
Yeah, that's the only thing I can really say at this point. As a lifelong fan of hers it's incredibly shitty to see her go down the path of such deranged toxicity. I thought she got it out of her system with Reputation, which I was willing to overlook at the time, but it's clear she'll never get over it. I don't want to support such a toxic lunatic - especially one that's a billionaire.
Roger Waters isn't a billionaire BTW, but he should also STFU about a few things :lol
EDIT: Neal and Bruce can keep on singing about their topics, they aren't "clapping back", "dissin'" or bringing up old dead beefs nobody cares about. They aren't being toxic and shitty towards their peers. There is a huge difference to me in this comparison.
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Just wanted to add that the diss track about Kim Kardashian is really egregious lmao
Eight years on, TS remains hyperfixated on what she describes as a "traumatic cancellation", but was actually just people mocking her for a few days. She brought it up in the Netflix doc, her Time profile... now this diss track. In the year of our lord 2024, my god, how is her skin so thin? The vindictiveness and victimization complex would be annoying in an up-and-comer, but in a billionare at the pinnacle of cultural power it's downright deranged!!! Girl, you're not an underdog and haven't been for years. Get over yourself
Dude, what in the world are you talking about? What diss track are you referring to?
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Seems she's going down the insufferable Lana Del Rey so boring I want to stab my ears style. What I'm hearing so far sounds like typical recycled Taylor Swift. I haven't heard the whole album. I actually just walked in my room and it was on, but if these two songs are a representation of the whole album, then the next two years are going to be fun...
This is like Folklore/Evermore with no interesting or catchy melodies. She sounds bored on this next song.
She needs to take a break for like 5 years. Let the inspiration stew. This is so bland. Fuck.
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Dude, what in the world are you talking about? What diss track are you referring to?
thanK you aIMee, the tune that is very obviously about the incident (down to the capitalization, lmao) she can't let go of. Have you listened to the album?
Seems she's going down the insufferable Lana Del Rey so boring I want to stab my ears style. What I'm hearing so far sounds like typical recycled Taylor Swift. I haven't heard the whole album. I actually just walked in my room and it was on, but if these two songs are a representation of the whole album, then the next two years are going to be fun...
This is like Folklore/Evermore with no interesting or catchy melodies. She sounds bored on this next song.
She needs to take a break for like 5 years. Let the inspiration stew. This is so bland. Fuck.
Yeah, it's really bad. It's almost like she saw how bad Lorde's Solar Power was and said "Hold my beer"
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My first impression is Midnights, part two. This is an album with a few tracks I enjoyed well enough and a few I'm not especially eager to listen to again. What I find interesting is the hyperbolic response from both the hardcore Swifties and those who don't enjoy it. I'm unsurprised the latter are represented more vocally on DTF, but jeez, it's really nothing shocking by her standards.
Edited to add and hopefully distill the point: what were people expecting?
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At this point I'm not expecting anything good. But I'm constantly subjected to her music, so it would be nice if I could enjoy it again.
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What I find interesting is the hyperbolic response from both the hardcore Swifties and those who don't enjoy it. I'm unsurprised the latter are represented more vocally on DTF, but jeez, it's really nothing shocking by her standards.
I don't think anyone's been particularly hyperbolic here have they?
The album is fine. But like I said, it's an extension of the last three, particularly Midnights. They're all albums you could pop on during a dinner party and you'd have no idea whether the first or ninth song was playing nor indeed how many times the entire thing had already looped. For me, there's not much that's particularly memorable here and that isn't something I can say about any album up to and including Lover.
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Whenever any artist or band makes a connection with millions of people I try to listen and see what happens. My wife likes TS so I've gotten to hear her music over the years but unfortunately it's never connected with me. I tried again with this new one. It certainly sounds great on the headphones sonically but I got about 5 songs in and that was it. Hopefully her legion of fans love it.
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The Tortured Poets Department is not an album for the casual fan or to initiate someone into the Taylor Swift fandom. I could tell right away that it was going to be a grower. The big pop hooks are mostly non-existent, and the album is long (31 songs over two hours), so you have to be invested and be willing to give it a handful of chances over a period of time, which I get that dislikers of it right away won't do since it's pretty common to just move to the next thing in the streaming era when there are a billion other songs at your fingertips. Quite a few of the songs still seem a bit boring and like a blur to me, but many of the songs sounded very good to me so far, so I will be interested to see how this really lands for me months from now once I have had a chance to live with it for a while. With all due respect to some here, passing final judgment on it when the album is not even 24 hours old (or 72 hours if one grabbed the leak on Wednesday) is something a serious music fan just doesn't do. Doing that is just as mindless as those declaring it a masterpiece after one or two listens.
This is not an album meant for the masses, but because of her stature, it is impossible for it not to be massive (the streaming numbers are already breaking records). I can say confidently already that if someone asked me today which Taylor Swift album they should listen to to try and turn them into a fan, this is the last one I would recommend, and not because it isn't good (I think it is pretty good overall so far, with a handful of songs I am really loving, but, again, I won't know for a while how good I really think it is), but because it does not have the immediacy of any of her other albums.
Also, I think many really miss the point about who she is always writing and singing about (I did as well until recently). It's easy to say, "Oh, she's singing about an ex again," but, no, the relationship that she has consistently written about over the years is the one with herself. Whether she is singing about an ex, a current boyfriend, her mom or a friend, she is writing about herself and how that particular relationship affects her relationship with herself. Call it her feelings or emotions or whatever you want, but that is the constant in her history.
I would keep in mind as well that her lyrics are not always quite literally a factual delivery of what really happened in her life. Take a song like But Daddy I Love Him, where she gives a fictional ending to a real story (since we all know she didn't marry Matt Healy).
To those who will continue to listening with an open mind, happy listening! :hat :hat
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That's a long and nice way of saying its crap
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I find it interesting that it could be an album not for the masses, but also every Target in the country is outfitt3d with a Taytay kiosk stocked with four different color variants.
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I find it interesting that it could be an album not for the masses, but also every Target in the country is outfitt3d with a Taytay kiosk stocked with four different color variants.
The 2 hour version of the album is particularly offensive. But it will be interesting to see how she bounces back from dropping mainstream pop's equivalent to The Astonishing. ;)
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The 2 hour version of the album is particularly offensive. But it will be interesting to see how she bounces back from dropping mainstream pop's equivalent to The Astonishing. ;)
:rollin
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I have a question...
How many of you "Swifties" would take a Taylor Swift college course on her music and albums?
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I can barely make it through a song of hers much less a whole semester lol
I can see why some would though, she definitely represents a huge swath of Americana.
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I can barely make it through a song of hers much less a whole semester lol
I can see why some would though, she definitely represents a huge swath of Americana.
Here's a description of the class...
https://www.dailylobo.com/article/2024/04/unm-honors-college-enters-its-swiftie-era
It's also using jukebox musicals. So I wonder if they are also going to mention the group Post Modern Jukebox that plays cover songs in a retro musical style.
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As someone enjoyed Taylor in the early days (pre-Red) but has just followed along in disinterest since 1989, it's interesting to see how the public opinion is shifting.
People are pointing out things ("cringe lyrics", "weak melodies") that, IMO, have been pretty present on a lot of her albums. To me, she hasn't really changed much, but the level of saturation has changed. People got really sick of seeing and hearing about her over the course of the NFL season. People thought it was tacky and self-important to announce her new album during the industry awards ceremony. And so on. People are just tired of her, and they are starting to notice the aforementioned flaws that once seemed to be evidence of the humanity of the artist therein.
I perused both Tone Deaf Poets and Midnights, and I hear the same stuff I'd heard for awhile now. I look at the recent album art, which looks like a lingerie catalogue advert catered to depressed white women, I think it says a lot about the artist: this ultimately vapid thing is trying so hard to convince me of its importance and profundity. For pop stars, I get that artistic expression and branding are often the same thing. For Taylor, it seems like it is never anything else.
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I have a question...
How many of you "Swifties" would take a Taylor Swift college course on her music and albums?
That would be an easy "A" and I would take it in a heartbeat, and I don't even like her music. But classes like this are more interesting than they actually sound.
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I have no interest in anything Taylor Swift, but this new album title is the most laughably pretentious thing I've ever heard.
"Tales from Topographic Oceans". "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway". "Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Works, Vol. 1".
:) :) :) :) :)
A View From The Top Of The World :lol
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A View From The Top Of The World :lol
Octavarium.
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"H To He Who Am The Only One"
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The Tortured Poets Department is not an album for the casual fan or to initiate someone into the Taylor Swift fandom. I could tell right away that it was going to be a grower. The big pop hooks are mostly non-existent, and the album is long (31 songs over two hours), so you have to be invested and be willing to give it a handful of chances over a period of time, which I get that dislikers of it right away won't do since it's pretty common to just move to the next thing in the streaming era when there are a billion other songs at your fingertips. Quite a few of the songs still seem a bit boring and like a blur to me, but many of the songs sounded very good to me so far, so I will be interested to see how this really lands for me months from now once I have had a chance to live with it for a while. With all due respect to some here, passing final judgment on it when the album is not even 24 hours old (or 72 hours if one grabbed the leak on Wednesday) is something a serious music fan just doesn't do. Doing that is just as mindless as those declaring it a masterpiece after one or two listens.
This is not an album meant for the masses, but because of her stature, it is impossible for it not to be massive (the streaming numbers are already breaking records). I can say confidently already that if someone asked me today which Taylor Swift album they should listen to to try and turn them into a fan, this is the last one I would recommend, and not because it isn't good (I think it is pretty good overall so far, with a handful of songs I am really loving, but, again, I won't know for a while how good I really think it is), but because it does not have the immediacy of any of her other albums.
Also, I think many really miss the point about who she is always writing and singing about (I did as well until recently). It's easy to say, "Oh, she's singing about an ex again," but, no, the relationship that she has consistently written about over the years is the one with herself. Whether she is singing about an ex, a current boyfriend, her mom or a friend, she is writing about herself and how that particular relationship affects her relationship with herself. Call it her feelings or emotions or whatever you want, but that is the constant in her history.
I would keep in mind as well that her lyrics are not always quite literally a factual delivery of what really happened in her life. Take a song like But Daddy I Love Him, where she gives a fictional ending to a real story (since we all know she didn't marry Matt Healy).
To those who will continue to listening with an open mind, happy listening! :hat :hat
I heard that was about Harry (not joking or pulling your leg).
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I can barely make it through a song of hers much less a whole semester lol
I can see why some would though, she definitely represents a huge swath of Americana.
I would take it in a heartbeat. I love that shit.
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Heard more of the album. I wonder if she's aware she has recycled so many of her vocal melodies. Still a blur of slow interchangeable bland songs.
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I would take it in a heartbeat. I love that shit.
Same here, just couldn't do it with Taylor. Do the same type of class with Marvel/DC comics or Star Wars and I'm all in
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Focusing mostly on the “main” album, I’m enjoying it…favorite tune for now is Guilty As Sin? Really nice mix of different sides of her sound. Other highlights for me - Who’s afraid of little old me?, But Daddy I love Him, Fortnight (especially how it builds to its conclusion). Loml is a lovely song too.
I’ve only listened to the “bonus” 15 songs once and I guess it’s a much more “intimate” and minimalistic set. Honestly I got a bit lost…things start to blur after a while ;) but I’m sure I’ll have the chance to revisit…TS is pretty popular in this household ;)
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Focusing mostly on the “main” album, I’m enjoying it…favorite tune for now is Guilty As Sin? Really nice mix of different sides of her sound. Other highlights for me - Who’s afraid of little old me?, But Daddy I love Him, Fortnight (especially how it builds to its conclusion). Loml is a lovely song too.
I’ve only listened to the “bonus” 15 songs once and I guess it’s a much more “intimate” and minimalistic set. Honestly I got a bit lost…things start to blur after a while ;) but I’m sure I’ll have the chance to revisit…TS is pretty popular in this household ;)
Nicely written Nick. I happen to agree with all of the above.
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I like the album too. Haven’t listened to the "bonus" songs yet though.
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Managed to hear the album twice, the "Astonishing version" as someone called it :rollin
Can't really pass any early judgement but yeah, feels a bit same-y. I don't think there's even an Anti-Hero (a song quite catchy and istantly recognizable), even though the title track is kinda catchy.
Early favorite is Florida, most likely nothing else will beat it for me and it's gonna be my favorite on the album, Florence's voice suits the song very well.
Also, what's up with so many names used as song titles? :P one of them in the bonus disc is quite cool but I don't remember which, possibly Peter.
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Early favorite is Florida, most likely nothing else will beat it for me and it's gonna be my favorite on the album, Florence's voice suits the song very well.
Yeah that's the only track that stood out as anything special. I just think she's completely regressed from Folkmore - or maybe those albums were a fluke? She just seemed like she'd grow up as an artist there, now listening to Midnights and this I just feel the lyrics are back to young adult levels. Musically and sonically this album feels too low-fi and meloncholy - which is fine, but that needs to be balanced with beauty or melody, which these songs mostly lack. It's like food without seasoning it's all just a little bland (this is just from the first 16 tracks).
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I've just finished listening to the whole lot again.
I think it's fabulous she's obviously in a rich vein of creativity but this is one case where I think there'd have been a real benefit in paring the whole lot down, focussing on the best ideas and working them into something better (read: songs I'd prefer, let's be honest). And that's just the first set!
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Quite a few listens later, this album is really, really good. Definitely a grower, but it has been getting better and better with each listen. And I still think it's not for the casual fan.
To anyone who still hasn't really dug into the second disc, I implore you to listen to How Did It End, I Hate It Here and Peter. Those are three of the most gorgeous songs she's ever written.
I heard that was about Harry (not joking or pulling your leg).
I think it is about Matt Healy (and that seems to be consensus), as are quite a few songs on the main album. The bridge is a dead giveaway, which is pretty much telling everyone to take their opinions and stick 'em where the sun don't shine with regards to whom she dates. (many fans mouthed off on Twitter when she was linked with him last spring for their brief entanglement)
Poor Joe Alwyn. Six years and he couldn't even get a breakup album to himself. :lol :lol
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Hahahah!
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Spinning this as a bit of background. Had no particular expectations but like it so far. I think the minimal synthy sounds are slightly more 80s-sounding than Midnights? Which is good for me. Not heard that one since soon after it came out, though.
Actually, I don't know why I'm posting. I have v little context. But quite nice to my ears.
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Nicely written Nick. I happen to agree with all of the above.
:tup
Quite a few listens later, this album is really, really good. Definitely a grower, but it has been getting better and better with each listen. And I still think it's not for the casual fan.
To anyone who still hasn't really dug into the second disc, I implore you to listen to How Did It End, I Hate It Here and Peter. Those are three of the most gorgeous songs she's ever written.
Yep, liking it more with additional listens…and How Did It End/I Hate It Here were songs I definitely took note of in my first listen of the “bonus” stuff.
Spinning this as a bit of background. Had no particular expectations but like it so far. I think the minimal synthy sounds are slightly more 80s-sounding than Midnights? Which is good for me. Not heard that one since soon after it came out, though.
Actually, I don't know why I'm posting. I have v little context. But quite nice to my ears.
I was having similar impressions regarding the synths…the ending of Fortnight could easily be considered synthwave…really liking that mood…
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Checking out I Hate It Here again, really good…and now I remember my first impression…especially the verse has a similar vibe to Paramore’s Misguided Ghosts. Kev, if you don’t know that one, check it out. Great song.
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So far this album is my Metallica's 72 Seasons.
Is there a song that totally blows and sucks beyond belief? no.
How many songs I essentially like? basically everyone.
How many songs make me go "whoah this is absolutely awesome"? nobody.
Do I feel there's a lot of variety? not really.
I confirm that Florida is a great track, and also some other stuff here and there is catchy, guess I'll have to take time to wade through a sea of same-y before finally the songs start to stand out on their own.
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I think that last line is the most important. Even bands I love, it's the rare occasion when a new work will be instantly unique and plant itself in my brain. It took a handful of listens before the second disk of "Senjutsu" settled in and differentiated, same with the two epics on Innocence and Danger.
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Not sure how many are there like me but I think Clara Bow is my favorite track from the album. It's so serene, calming and really catchy.
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As Taylor Swift albums go, this certainly is one.
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It does seem a lot of folks are trying to talk themselves into liking it, which is exactly what a bunch of us were accused of for liking The Astonishing.
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Is there a song that totally blows and sucks beyond belief? no.
How many songs I essentially like? basically everyone.
How many songs make me go "whoah this is absolutely awesome"? nobody.
Do I feel there's a lot of variety? not really.
Basically. I like some lyrics, find some bits really nice sounding, Fortnight is great when coupled with the video, but this is the Evermore to Midnights' Folklore and I didn't really need it. I love moody synthy pop, my favorite bits of 1989 and Reputation and Lover all sound like Midnight Torture Department, but slightly over 50 songs of it within 18 months is a bit too much. I understand I can pick and choose but if I'm asked to share my opinion on the material as it is presented, that's what it is.
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It does seem a lot of folks are trying to talk themselves into liking it, which is exactly what a bunch of us were accused of for liking The Astonishing.
This. A lot of TS fans talk themselves into liking her music. And talk themselves into buying 4 copies of everything. And talk themselves into going to see the movie of the tour they already paid $500 to see, which they also talked themselves into
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This. A lot of TS fans talk themselves into liking her music. And talk themselves into buying 4 copies of everything. And talk themselves into going to see the movie of the tour they already paid $500 to see, which they also talked themselves into
Or maybe they actually like it?
I didn't love this album (or the last one), but fuck me, life is short. If people like it and want to spend their money on it, what is it to me? If it brings them joy, why should you or I give a fuck?
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This. A lot of TS fans talk themselves into liking her music. And talk themselves into buying 4 copies of everything. And talk themselves into going to see the movie of the tour they already paid $500 to see, which they also talked themselves into
Just stop. It was wrong to ridicule fans of The Astonishing and it's wrong here too. My daughter didn't have to "talk herself" into liking anything. She liked it from the jump and has been listening to it ever since. If it didn't register with you so be it.
For every fan that had to be "talked into" liking it, I'm sure there are 100's if not 1,000's of fans like those here that give their artists the benefit of the doubt, and let the album settle in (or not) as the case may be.
What I'M most fascinated by is the amount of attention being paid to whether someone gets personal joy - or not - by the latest artistic output of a famous musician. Why not just let people enjoy it, or not, without judgment?
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This. A lot of TS fans talk themselves into liking her music. And talk themselves into buying 4 copies of everything. And talk themselves into going to see the movie of the tour they already paid $500 to see, which they also talked themselves into
Just checking. You have absolutely zero basis for this statement, right? You just made it up? Pure speculation?
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Just stop.
Fair enough, definitely took it a bit too far, my apologies. I've noticed a lot of posturing around her music by her fans but that doesn't mean they're all doing it, as you pointed out.
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Spinning this as a bit of background. Had no particular expectations but like it so far. I think the minimal synthy sounds are slightly more 80s-sounding than Midnights? Which is good for me. Not heard that one since soon after it came out, though.
Actually, I don't know why I'm posting. I have v little context. But quite nice to my ears.
Don't let a few isolated comments fool ya. This new album is not like Midnights really at all. Even the labeling of it on wikipedia as synth pop seems way off, since there are no more than a handful of songs I would call synth pop. Midnights was much more synth-driven, not to mention more rhythmic.
Yep, liking it more with additional listens…and How Did It End/I Hate It Here were songs I definitely took note of in my first listen of the “bonus” stuff.
It feels like more fans are more focused on the first disc, and I get that, but I cannot wait till more and more fans really "get" the second one in a big way. That run of songs at the end is unreal. The Prophecy, Cassandra, Peter, The Bolter, Robin and The Manuscript are all melodic gems. And her voice has never sounded better.
Checking out I Hate It Here again, really good…and now I remember my first impression…especially the verse has a similar vibe to Paramore’s Misguided Ghosts. Kev, if you don’t know that one, check it out. Great song.
Will do. :tup :tup
Not sure how many are there like me but I think Clara Bow is my favorite track from the album. It's so serene, calming and really catchy.
I like it a lot. While I love The Manuscript a bit more as the true TTPD closer, Clara Bow does a great job in closing out the first half of the record.
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The official YouTube video for The Blue Nile’s “The Downtown Lights” is up by about 53,000 views since this album dropped. It was at about 638K views over 6 years before then, so about six months worth of views in the last 5 days.
https://youtu.be/tNgSwtRqLmg?si=NRhHAj2RQfnJSjVK
Good work, Taylor.
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Fair enough, definitely took it a bit too far, my apologies. I've noticed a lot of posturing around her music by her fans but that doesn't mean they're all doing it, as you pointed out.
And you want fan posturing? Look in this very forum. Go to see any forum/chat group regarding Fish from Marillion. Bruce. This is not unique to Taylor Swift, and if anything, at least she's got the goods to back it up in terms of broad-based appeal.
(I get that some people don't want to live lives as a celebrity of the magnitude of Taylor Swift, but I'll bet if you asked - off the record - how many of your FAVORITE artists - you know, the "prog" artists who supposedly have so much more "artistic credibility" than Taylor - would want millions of people to hear each song they put out they'd be responding with a resounding "HELL YEAH!!!", our home team band included.)
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I just assume everyone who likes growlies had to talk themselves into liking them, so ....
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I like the sound in general on the new one. And I dig her voice, melodies and presence a lot.
No disrespect to her or her fans. I have lots of respect for her. But there's not enough meat that speaks to me for me to listen to much more of it. 2 hrs of "my boyfriend did this, I felt this" gets dull for me.
I feel the similarly about Gaga. Great talents, both, but I'm waiting for them to produce an intense 8-track banger of a record that's up there with the all-time greats. Like The Killers did with Pressure Machine, afaic. They both have it in them, I believe.
EDIT: I rate Caroline Polachek's last one very highly. And Beyonce's recent release has a texture and complexity than gives me much more to get my teeth into. (I have v little history with any of these artists, btw. So this is no reference to any celeb drama, but they're all "mainstream" artists I've at least tried out recently so I kind of compare them in my head.)
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I can understand the "too much of the same" criticism.
I'm often listening to the album through the Bluetooth speaker that I carry around the house while I'm doing other stuff, so at the time it's hard to remember clearly all the songs 'cause I'm not even at the computer paying attention to the tracklist, however I guess that from the two discs, Florida!!! is my favorite of the "main" album, and Peter the favorite of the "anthology" part.
Other great songs here and there: the title track, But Daddy I love Him (despite the title), Who's Afraid of Little Old Me, Clara Bow, The Black Dog, I Hate it Here, and probably many other songs but I still have to associate the memory, the melody and the actual title all together.
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To gently push back on the "too much of the same" criticism, I will ask: how many times does Swift have to radically shift gears before it's enough? Red, which was released when she was still considered a country artist and had very little country, was considered a departure. Her going full blown pop on 1989 was a massive shift. Reputation introducing urban styles into her music was quite a stunner in real time. And we all know what a massive departure Folklore was when that dropped. Does one have to reinvent the wheel on every record to avoid the "too much of the same" criticism? This is her 11th album. Did Dream Theater, our host band, get accused of too much of the same when releasing A Dramatic Turn of Events, their 11th album, which some thought was quite literally in the style of one of their classic albums from the past? Just asking. :)
Questions aside, it's cool to see that some here are enjoying this. As I said at the outset, this is a grower, and with 31 songs total, it can feel like a hurdle for those who aren't big fans (since I think everyone gives more chances to new albums from a favorite as opposed to those of whom you are a casual fan or not one at all).
With the tour starting back up in a few weeks, I have no idea how she's going to tackle the set list with this new album out. TTPD will almost have to get a placement as its own era in the set list, but where? And what gets cut? Should be interesting.
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Side note for all of us who appreciated the "and though the time will come when dream and day unite", "her images and words are running deep" and the other callbacks to the DT album titles: technically, at the end of Clara Bow she mentions the title of her debut album :lol
It's a nugget 11 albums in the making!!!
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To gently push back on the "too much of the same" criticism, I will ask: how many times does Swift have to radically shift gears before it's enough? Red, which was released when she was still considered a country artist and had very little country, was considered a departure. Her going full blown pop on 1989 was a massive shift.
I get that she's shifted a lot. She doesn't have to change styles. She seems to be doing just fine as she is. :lol My comment is absolutely not a call for her to do so. Nor do Maiden, for example. Purely saying her stuff in general doesn't speak strongly enough to me to love it, but I have interest and respect and, selfishly, hope she does something more intense that will delight me at some point. 🙂
EDIT: And yes, I think DT have frequently been called out for being a bit samey for a decade or so, I would estimate.
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I like the sound in general on the new one. And I dig her voice, melodies and presence a lot.
No disrespect to her or her fans. I have lots of respect for her. But there's not enough meat that speaks to me for me to listen to much more of it. 2 hrs of "my boyfriend did this, I felt this" gets dull for me.
I feel the similarly about Gaga. Great talents, both, but I'm waiting for them to produce an intense 8-track banger of a record that's up there with the all-time greats. Like The Killers did with Pressure Machine, afaic. They both have it in them, I believe.
EDIT: I rate Caroline Polachek's last one very highly. And Beyonce's recent release has a texture and complexity than gives me much more to get my teeth into. (I have v little history with any of these artists, btw. So this is no reference to any celeb drama, but they're all "mainstream" artists I've at least tried out recently so I kind of compare them in my head.)
But this is the problem with statements like yours. Not that the statement is wrong, but it's so subjective. For my money, there is nothing in the Killers catalogue that even hints at "the all-time greats", but 1989 may be top five greatest pop albums ever. EVER. Wildest Dreams is, to me, the perfect song. PERFECT. So I'm not sure what people are looking for here.
Maybe she's just not for you?
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To gently push back on the "too much of the same" criticism, I will ask: how many times does Swift have to radically shift gears before it's enough? Red, which was released when she was still considered a country artist and had very little country, was considered a departure. Her going full blown pop on 1989 was a massive shift. Reputation introducing urban styles into her music was quite a stunner in real time. And we all know what a massive departure Folklore was when that dropped. Does one have to reinvent the wheel on every record to avoid the "too much of the same" criticism? This is her 11th album. Did Dream Theater, our host band, get accused of too much of the same when releasing A Dramatic Turn of Events, their 11th album, which some thought was quite literally in the style of one of their classic albums from the past? Just asking. :)
Questions aside, it's cool to see that some here are enjoying this. As I said at the outset, this is a grower, and with 31 songs total, it can feel like a hurdle for those who aren't big fans (since I think everyone gives more chances to new albums from a favorite as opposed to those of whom you are a casual fan or not one at all).
With the tour starting back up in a few weeks, I have no idea how she's going to tackle the set list with this new album out. TTPD will almost have to get a placement as its own era in the set list, but where? And what gets cut? Should be interesting.
I agree with this 10000000000000%. I think that the topics we're talking about are very very difficult to judge in the time-frames we're talking about. And while I wouldn't accuse anyone here of this, specifically, I think it's unavoidable to see someone like Taylor Swift, who is polarizing on so many levels, and not have that creep in somehow. I love her, I love her music, but for example, the combination of Jim Nantz announcing and her in the stands made me turn off NFL football (because the Chiefs were on EVERY. FUCKING. WEEK.) for the first time in my entire life.
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But this is the problem with statements like yours. Not that the statement is wrong, but it's so subjective. For my money, there is nothing in the Killers catalogue that even hints at "the all-time greats", but 1989 may be top five greatest pop albums ever. EVER. Wildest Dreams is, to me, the perfect song. PERFECT. So I'm not sure what people are looking for here.
Maybe she's just not for you?
Sure. I consciously try and sprinkle a fuck-ton of "for me"s and "imo"s and "afaic" in my posts to over emphasise the subjectivity, man. :lol. Appreciate that I didn't on that one, though. I am absolutely not trying to state any objective truth here.
And Pressure Machine isn't an all time great album for me, actually, but I really love it. They were a band, like Taylor where I liked a few bits very much but not most of it. That album basically fixed all the problems I had with them and delivered something I personally loved.
Not dumping on your gal, people. I think she's cool.
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I think it's more than fair to say that we all give a lot more rope to our favorites than someone of whom we aren't a fan.
Take a song like Thank You Aimee. If someone had gone out of their way to ruin the reputation of someone in DT with a doctored phone call and they wrote a "diss" track about said person 8-9 years later, would we all be like, "eh, they should be over it by now." Hell! No! We'd all be like, "hell yeah, they deserved it!" So, I don't see it being a problem in the case of this song and Swift.
Also, there are layers to that song; it's not just an FU song. There's also a bit of "you tried to destroy me and look at me now!" to it (a bit of comical hubris), and there is also the shift to "thank you" in the final chorus, which feels like an acknowledgement that Reputation, an album of which she is very proud, would never have happened the way it did without the two unmentionables doing what they did.
Is she overexposed right now? Sure. I get that some are tired of hearing about her, but is she supposed to stop releasing new music because some are tired of her? She is obliterating records left and right, so it's clear that many are not tired of her. She became the first artist to get a billion streams in a single week in Spotify, which she achieved with still close to two full days left of that week. :eek :eek
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I'd like to see her (and Lana) move on from Jack now.
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As someone that doesn't love her, you guys that DO love her don't need to defend her. Her track record speaks for itself.
I respect her for what she's done, but her stuff doesn't speak to me almost at all. That's not her fault. But if I vocalize (well, type) reasons why I think she doesn't appeal to me, those aren't attacks on her person and don't require anyone trying to show me why I'm wrong. I'm just saying.
Having said that, all of the reasons that she doesn't appeal to me have already been covered, so I'm not going to bring them up again. I will still listen every time a new album comes out, in the hopes that this time, I like it a lot, but if that never happens, no skin off my nose. She doesn't need my approval as the cherry on her career sundae lol
Just my two cents
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Good post, hef! :tup :tup
I'd like to see her (and Lana) move on from Jack now.
I know that is becoming more popular of an opinion with some on the 'net, but I am perfectly fine with him continuing to produce a lot of her music; I think he does a great job overall. Sure, there are times where I wish they opted for a real live drummer over programmed drums, but her albums ultimately sound like she wants them to, so it's not like his personality or producing skills are taking them over. I also like that he has a rock background, as well as a love for 80s pop; those aesthetics often are prominent on her newer albums. Aaron Dessner being from The National also has a strong rock background, thus her two main producers nowadays have rock backgrounds, which I like. No one will ever accuse Antonoff of being Neil Peart or Mike Portnoy :lol, but his background as a drummer comes across well in her songs more often than not as well, even when the drums are programmed. There is two fills in Is It Over Now? (1989 Vault track) that I air drum every single time, and I am sure that was a Jack thing.
All that said, I don't see it happening any time soon because I think he is still on Big Machine's label, but I'd love to see her do another album where Nathan Chapman is the producer. He did a great job on her early albums.