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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: npiazza91 on August 09, 2020, 08:55:20 PM

Title: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: npiazza91 on August 09, 2020, 08:55:20 PM
Just listened to it again, and honestly...itís still one of my least favorites. I have it at 13/14 in my ranking. It doesnít have one song on it where Iím like ďoh I love this songĒ. ITPOE is good...but not something I jump out of my seat for. Forsaken is good, but imo Paralyzed kinda does the same thing but better. Constant Motion is a cool song, but not anything outstanding or anything. I love thrash more than prog tbh, but I donít really like DT doing pure thrash, they sound their best when theyíre doing stuff like BITS and Voices. Heavy stuff pouring with emotion. TDEN is cool and unique but again...not anything amazing to me. TMOLS is probably my favorite song on the album, but tbh compared to other 12+ minute epics by them, it doesnít really stand out. Iíll listen to something like Endless Sacrifice over it any day. The other two songs on the album...meh. POW is very average and Repentance is boring.

I think to me, this album just lacks emotion. TMOLS is the only song that really conveys that classic DT emotional feel, but even then itís not THAT emotional, itís just more emotional than the other songs on the album. This is a very flat sounding album to me in a lot of ways, it almost feels like a different band to me. Even the other heavy albums like TOT and BCASL, they have a lot of emotion on those albums, they donít sound flat. Idk, SC just doesnít do it for me. If the band sounded like this on every album, this wouldnít be one of my favorite bands, not by a long shot.

But since I just listened to it again and itís still fresh in my mind, I was wondering what all you guys think of it.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: SystematicThought on August 09, 2020, 09:34:57 PM
I don't mind it. It's the album that got me into DT, I liked it when I first heard it and some of the faults that I had with it in the beginning, I've warmed up to. The production doesn't bother me as much for one, actually, I like how up front Mike's drums are, especially in TDOE. The fantasy lyrics don't do much for me in TDOE, Forsaken, ITPOE, and TMOLS, but that's not too much of a detractor.

The way I view it, Systematic Chaos is DT having fun and not taking themselves too seriously. They just came off a stretch of albums that all segued into each other, the last album was the thematically heavy Octavarium, played a big tour, Gigantour, and Radio City. I think it's just DT having fun and letting loose. I actually think it's kind of a fun album.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: 54_diplomats on August 09, 2020, 09:56:12 PM
At one point it was my least favorite album, but nowadays its moved up a bit (10/14 if I'm ranking it) Still towards the bottom but I actually kinda enjoy it now. ITPOE is one of my favorite DT songs as well as TMOLS. I don't really like Constant Motion and Repentance, but the rest are fine.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Trav86 on August 10, 2020, 05:21:25 AM
I would probably rank it somewhere toward the bottom. However, whenever I listen to it, I find that I like it a lot more than I was expecting to.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Zydar on August 10, 2020, 05:30:45 AM
I remember I became a DT fan around the time of its release, so it was the newest album for me then. It has aged quite well, although it's not one of my favourites. I don't know where I would rank it, but it's in the bottom half somewhere. Personal favourites from it are ITPOE, Forsaken, and Constant Motion. I never cared for Repentance and TMOLS though.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: pg1067 on August 10, 2020, 10:15:16 AM
Do we really need a second thread on this subject?

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=3296.0
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 11, 2020, 08:48:43 AM
It's a strong album indicated by the poll results in the original thread.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: pg1067 on August 11, 2020, 09:35:52 AM
The poll results in the prior thread indicate that more people chose "a strong album" than any of the other options given.  However, a majority of the responses (215 out of 365) voted the album as "average," "pretty bad, but has some good points" or "terrible."
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: kirksnosehair on August 11, 2020, 12:07:56 PM
It's pretty far down my list of Dream Theater albums.  Probably in the bottom 3 or 4 anyway.  It's got some great songs on it and some not so great songs on it.  I rarely listen to it.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: a51502112 on August 11, 2020, 12:16:29 PM
IMO... I dislike it. Forsaken is cheesy, Repentance and Ministry are awful. Don't think I've listened to it since the year of its release.
 Whenever a song from this album plays on random, I skip it.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 11, 2020, 04:09:36 PM
The poll results in the prior thread indicate that more people chose "a strong album" than any of the other options given.

Exactly my point and the only things that matters.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Kotowboy on August 11, 2020, 06:15:10 PM
I find it very front heavy. The first 4 songs are mostly fun and the next 4 songs are mostly plodding.

Plus the hot & dry production doesn't help.

IMO it's in the middle of two better albums.

Black Clouds is less of a slog - apart from the 3rd half of ANTR . But it has nicer sonics too and less plodders.

And Octavarium is my favourite DT album.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: robbob on August 14, 2020, 07:23:40 AM
Totally agree with this quote from SystematicThought:
"The way I view it, Systematic Chaos is DT having fun and not taking themselves too seriously. They just came off a stretch of albums that all segued into each other, the last album was the thematically heavy Octavarium, played a big tour, Gigantour, and Radio City. I think it's just DT having fun and letting loose. I actually think it's kind of a fun album."

I love listening to this album , can do without Prophets of War though. The fantasy lyrics don't bother me either, never been a big lyric guy and again not to be taken too seriously.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: ytserush on August 14, 2020, 06:00:16 PM
Just listened to it again, and honestly...itís still one of my least favorites. I have it at 13/14 in my ranking. It doesnít have one song on it where Iím like ďoh I love this songĒ. ITPOE is good...but not something I jump out of my seat for. Forsaken is good, but imo Paralyzed kinda does the same thing but better. Constant Motion is a cool song, but not anything outstanding or anything. I love thrash more than prog tbh, but I donít really like DT doing pure thrash, they sound their best when theyíre doing stuff like BITS and Voices. Heavy stuff pouring with emotion. TDEN is cool and unique but again...not anything amazing to me. TMOLS is probably my favorite song on the album, but tbh compared to other 12+ minute epics by them, it doesnít really stand out. Iíll listen to something like Endless Sacrifice over it any day. The other two songs on the album...meh. POW is very average and Repentance is boring.

I think to me, this album just lacks emotion. TMOLS is the only song that really conveys that classic DT emotional feel, but even then itís not THAT emotional, itís just more emotional than the other songs on the album. This is a very flat sounding album to me in a lot of ways, it almost feels like a different band to me. Even the other heavy albums like TOT and BCASL, they have a lot of emotion on those albums, they donít sound flat. Idk, SC just doesnít do it for me. If the band sounded like this on every album, this wouldnít be one of my favorite bands, not by a long shot.

But since I just listened to it again and itís still fresh in my mind, I was wondering what all you guys think of it.

Basement dweller though I do like Constant Motion. Repentance, and Prophets Of War.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: hunnus2000 on August 15, 2020, 10:19:51 AM
Well I like this album. I like the lyrical allusions and themes and I think Forsaken is a pretty cool and straight forward rocker. I love ITPOE especially part II where the keyboard takes over the guitar part from part I.

But I realize - to each their own....
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: PixelDream on August 15, 2020, 12:11:55 PM
Itís DTís most fun record but also the one with the least depth to it IMO. It has a cartoony feel which they also presented visually during the tour I went to, making it quite a memorable and fun show.

I agree on Paralyzed beating Forsaken in the same game.

Itís kind of a weird album for me, because when it came out, the opener sounded like it was going to outdo 8VM. ITPOE part 1 is such a classic, the way it begins with the unison, that heavenly guitar lead and the raging power chords before the first vocal section. JLB comes in so great on this track over that cool groove ďI saw a white light..Ē. Just an amazing track.

ITPOE pt2 fails to deliver the same thrill for me even though it def has moments. The intro is very cool, but I donít like the Dark Master and the Megadeth-ish sections. But then the ďI judge and I am justĒ really speaks to me again.

Constant Motion is not a fave of mine but the solo section kinda rules. TDEN I feel is quite ugly musically IMO even though it does rock.. Repentence is not one of their most engaging tracks and a too obvious attempt to sound like mellow Opeth. Prophets of War I donít really like but I donít skip it, itís alright.

TMoLS I should like a lot as itís a drawn out mini epic and has a very nostalgic / yearning tone, and I do but somehow this track never really amazed me.

So there. I still like the album a ton, an average DT album is still great and worth listening to. Quite like the production, itís mastered hot but the sound has enough color and depth to it. Like it for the fun factor and the bandís performance is great as usual.

Black Clouds and Silver Linings was an improvement over this, I think. Less goofy stuff and more emotional content. A Rite of Passage is probably my least favorite DT track though.



Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: drod1985 on August 15, 2020, 06:10:10 PM
I've never understood the hate this album gets. Systematic Chaos is in my top 5 Dream Theater albums. Great mix, great tones, solid-to-great songs.

I'll always have fond memories of the first time I listened to the album all the way through. Great experience, especially with the ITPOE bookends.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Adami on August 15, 2020, 09:58:50 PM
Repentance is one of my fav songs of theirs. Prophets of War is pretty cool at times. The rest of the songs have their moments, but nothing I go back to much
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Trav86 on August 16, 2020, 05:31:31 AM
I find it very front heavy. The first 4 songs are mostly fun and the next 4 songs are mostly plodding.


I agree with this. The first four tracks are the best, and once Repentance starts, I check out. Notice how those first four are the only ones played live in the ďpost-MP setlistĒ era.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: SeRoX on August 16, 2020, 10:59:25 AM
I remember the days its relase. I said, ok it's not going to work. Especially after Octavarium which is in my top 5 SC didn't give the joy. But interesting enough when I spin that album nowadays I find more enjoyful.

I still think TMOLS is most boring song that DT ever made and Constant Motion is just awful I like the rest. ITPOE is a great epic song and PoW is such a fun song to listen.

My Rank would be:

1- In The Presence Of Enemies (Both Part)
2- Repentance
3- Prophets Of War
4- Forsaken
5- The Dark Eternal Night
6- The Ministry Of Lost Souls
7- Constant Motion
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: pg1067 on August 16, 2020, 02:15:08 PM
I guess since we're going to continue with this thread despite the other thread, I'll give my thoughts.

When I first heard ITPOE, I liked the beginning.  Then, just when I thought it should start to transition into a vocal section, JP and JR went into the full wank mode Flight of the Bumblebee section....  ITPOE has a couple decent sections, but as a whole, I find it dull and unmemorable.  Other than the opening 5 and 7 riff, I can't think of any riff from the song.

Forsaken is fine.  Not bad, but also nothing great.

Constant motion is a great song.  Love the intro riff and the way it progresses.  The only thing I don't care for is vocal alterations in the second verse.  Otherwise, I love it.

The Dark Eternal Night is also fine.  I don't care for how down-tuned everything is, and it's a bit cartoonish (as evidenced by The Dark Nintendo Night video).  It's good live.

Repentance is the single worst song DT has ever done.  Long, boring, plodding.  I have nothing good to say about it.

I don't dislike Prophets of War as much as a lot of folks do, but I don't like it either.

After a couple recent re-listens, I don't dislike The Ministry of Lost Souls as much as I used to, but I still don't like it.  Nothing memorable about it.

It's a bottom three album (along with FII and TA, and probably a notch below WDADU).
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Kotowboy on August 16, 2020, 02:31:40 PM
I go back and forth with SC / BC&SL about which I prefer.

But I think I prefer BC&SL on the whole.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: pg1067 on August 16, 2020, 06:21:53 PM
I go back and forth with SC / BC&SL about which I prefer.

But I think I prefer BC&SL on the whole.

I agree.

BC&SL has two great songs (Wither and TCOT), one good song (TSF), a couple of meh songs (ANTR and AROP), and a bottom five all-time DT song (TBOT).

SC has one great song (CM), DT's all-time worst song, and a bunch of stuff that ranges between meh and ok.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: gzarruk on August 16, 2020, 07:24:39 PM
Might be the only one here, but to me SC is miles better than BC&SL.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Kotowboy on August 17, 2020, 03:42:50 AM
I think apart from A Nightmare to Remember - I think Black Clouds is less plodding overall.

Repentance and Ministry are both quite slow and overly long and they add up to 25 mins combined.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Dream Team on August 17, 2020, 06:46:12 AM
So I guess we canít combine the 2 SC threads . . .
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: gzarruk on August 17, 2020, 09:01:34 AM
So I guess we canít combine the 2 SC threads . . .

Or the 2 Terminal Velocity threads :lol
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: pg1067 on August 17, 2020, 09:54:08 AM
So I guess we canít combine the 2 SC threads . . .

Or the 2 Terminal Velocity threads :lol

There are only 2?
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: darkshade on August 18, 2020, 05:37:24 PM
ITPOE1 -> TMOLS -> ITPOE2 is the best latter era DT album they never put out.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 19, 2020, 12:29:40 PM
I think that ITPOE is criminally underrated. It tends to get lost in the shuffle amidst their other epics, which to be fair are amazing. But I think that ITPOE stands out because of the Pt. 1 and Pt. 2 dynamic. You can enjoy it as one huge song or listen to Pt. 1 as a one-off, which is very enjoyable even by itself.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: pg1067 on August 19, 2020, 01:00:49 PM
You can enjoy it

No, I can't.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 19, 2020, 02:30:51 PM
You can enjoy it

No, I can't.

You can! I swear you can!! BELIEVE ME!!! :blush
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: JiM-Xtreme on August 21, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
I'll tell you what I can't enjoy. The fact that there are currently TWO threads ongoing about this one album which is... not my favourite...
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 22, 2020, 02:24:51 AM
After a couple recent re-listens, I don't dislike The Ministry of Lost Souls as much as I used to, but I still don't like it.  Nothing memorable about it.

Outside of an utter lack of taste, a short memory is most likely the probable cause. :p
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Kotowboy on August 22, 2020, 05:49:27 AM
The Ministry of Lost Souls is a perfect example of what should have been a 5 minute song ssssstttttrrrrreeeeetttttccccchhhhheeeeeddddd out to be a 15 minute song.


Another is A Nightmare To Remember which is WAY too long for how many parts it has. It should have wrapped up after the Beautiful Agony section.


But Instead it has 5 more solo sections and a pointless cookie monster section.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Dream Team on August 22, 2020, 08:52:16 AM
The Ministry of Lost Souls is a perfect example of what should have been a 5 minute song ssssstttttrrrrreeeeetttttccccchhhhheeeeeddddd out to be a 15 minute song.


Another is A Nightmare To Remember which is WAY too long for how many parts it has. It should have wrapped up after the Beautiful Agony section.


But Instead it has 5 more solo sections and a pointless cookie monster section.

Fortunately this stuff kind of went away with MPís departure.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: pg1067 on August 24, 2020, 09:43:30 AM
After a couple recent re-listens, I don't dislike The Ministry of Lost Souls as much as I used to, but I still don't like it.  Nothing memorable about it.

Outside of an utter lack of taste, a short memory is most likely the probable cause. :p

 :censored :censored :censored
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 24, 2020, 12:18:12 PM
I find most of the songs on SC to be fun, but kind of shallow.  They don't have as much depth as the songs from most other DT albums.  The enjoyment is surface level only.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Max Kuehnau on August 24, 2020, 02:39:09 PM
I find most of the songs on SC to be fun, but kind of shallow.  They don't have as much depth as the songs from most other DT albums.  The enjoyment is surface level only.
How so? (Interesting thought, really. Truthfully, I rarely heard or read that SC was superficial, apart from these usual (and obvious) people who don't like more elaborate music.)
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 24, 2020, 03:03:44 PM
They lyrics are straightforward, with no interpretation necessary.  Also, the music is functional, and occasionally fun, but nothing breathtaking.  You can tell there wasn't much self-editing done on this one.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 24, 2020, 04:40:03 PM
It's not like they were going for prog metal album of the year, but I do like it better than DT12 and TA.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Trav86 on August 24, 2020, 05:03:51 PM
They lyrics are straightforward, with no interpretation necessary.  Also, the music is functional, and occasionally fun, but nothing breathtaking.  You can tell there wasn't much self-editing done on this one.

I agree with this. But, Iíll give them a pass seeing as how they were coming off a four album run that was pretty dense musically, and conceptually. The idea of just going in and playing some fun songs probably seemed pretty appealing to them.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: bosk1 on August 25, 2020, 08:32:51 AM
I was just wondering something.  Since the majority opinion on ITPOE seems to generally be that pt. 1 is the better of the two, I wonder whether the entire thing would be perceived better or worse if they had not split it into two parts. 
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: TAC on August 25, 2020, 08:42:28 AM
I was just wondering something.  Since the majority opinion on ITPOE seems to generally be that pt. 1 is the better of the two, I wonder whether the entire thing would be perceived better or worse if they had not split it into two parts.

What if DT split Illumination Theory? I bet it'd be received similarly as ITPOE, in terms of Pt1 vs Pt2. The thing is, in both songs, Pt. 1 is so concise and direct.

I actually love ITPOE Pt. 2.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: bosk1 on August 25, 2020, 08:44:49 AM
I actually love ITPOE Pt. 2.

As do most people with good taste.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 25, 2020, 09:30:04 AM
They lyrics are straightforward, with no interpretation necessary.  Also, the music is functional, and occasionally fun, but nothing breathtaking.  You can tell there wasn't much self-editing done on this one.

I agree with this. But, Iíll give them a pass seeing as how they were coming off a four album run that was pretty dense musically, and conceptually. The idea of just going in and playing some fun songs probably seemed pretty appealing to them.
Oh, I'm not NOT giving them a pass (as if they require a pass from me lol).  Just calling it like I see it.

It remains an excellent driving album, IMO.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: geeeemo on August 25, 2020, 09:49:33 AM
I always listen to the live version of ItPoE on CIM.  It so good together and a great perfomance as well.  I like part 2 better, but seeing part one this past tour
was a big highlight for me.

I am loving IT more and more - especially the live version of that.  I love live versions!
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: bosk1 on August 25, 2020, 10:34:11 AM
I loved that they played pt. 1.  It was a great performance, and the song fit the vibe of the set very nicely.  Knowing that it is only part of a complete work that tells a single story is a bit jarring for me, but it wasn't too hard to work past that and just enjoy the performance.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Evermind on August 25, 2020, 10:41:13 AM
seeing part one this past tour
was a big highlight for me.


I loved that they played pt. 1.  It was a great performance, and the song fit the vibe of the set very nicely.

Definitely agree with these, Pt. 1 was the highlight of this tour for me (we did not get SFAM though, only had the short set). Still, I'm glad I went if only because I saw them play that song live.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 26, 2020, 02:03:48 PM
I like Pt.1 better, but listening to both parts back to back makes the entire concept more enjoyable.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 26, 2020, 02:14:52 PM
I like Pt.1 better, but listening to both parts back to back makes the entire concept more enjoyable.
Agreed.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 26, 2020, 04:11:21 PM
I like Pt.1 better, but listening to both parts back to back makes the entire concept more enjoyable.
Agreed.

 :)
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Kotowboy on August 27, 2020, 03:29:56 PM
Ok guys - if In The Presence of Enemies was one 25 minute track - would you have it open Systematic Chaos or Close it

a. )

In The Presence of Enemies
Forsaken
Constant Motion
Dark Eternal Night
Repentance
Prophets of War
The Ministry of Lost Souls


--- or ---

b. )

Forsaken
Constant Motion
Dark Eternal Night
Repentance
Prophets of War
The Ministry of Lost Souls
In The Presence Of Enemies

?
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: DTA on August 27, 2020, 03:50:42 PM
Ok guys - if In The Presence of Enemies was one 25 minute track - would you have it open Systematic Chaos or Close it

a. )

In The Presence of Enemies
Forsaken
Constant Motion
Dark Eternal Night
Repentance
Prophets of War
The Ministry of Lost Souls


--- or ---

b. )

Forsaken
Constant Motion
Dark Eternal Night
Repentance
Prophets of War
The Ministry of Lost Souls
In The Presence Of Enemies

?

It could really work as either because I feel like you have built-in alternate opening/closing tracks with The Dark Eternal Night and The Ministry of Lost Souls. But, since Octavarium closed that album, I think being an opening song is the best option for SC.

Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Trav86 on August 27, 2020, 04:01:32 PM
Opener. After coming off of Octavarium as their last album ender.

Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: gzarruk on August 27, 2020, 04:18:59 PM
Opener x3. I merged both parts into one track a while ago and have it starting the album, it works really well imo :metal
TMOLS closing works really well too.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Kotowboy on August 27, 2020, 04:27:13 PM
Sidenote : Whilst Systematic Chaos isn't my favourite album - I do really like the cadence of the title.

It has a similar cadence to a Death Magnetic or American idiot.

A really satisfying easy to pronounce catchy title.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: ytserush on August 29, 2020, 09:10:38 AM
Sidenote : Whilst Systematic Chaos isn't my favourite album - I do really like the cadence of the title.

It has a similar cadence to a Death Magnetic or American idiot.

A really satisfying easy to pronounce catchy title.

Like the name and the artwork, just not most of the music unfortunately.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: hunnus2000 on August 29, 2020, 01:47:49 PM
Sidenote : Whilst Systematic Chaos isn't my favourite album - I do really like the cadence of the title.

It has a similar cadence to a Death Magnetic or American idiot.

A really satisfying easy to pronounce catchy title.

American idiot - it's funny because it's so true........ :lol
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: bosk1 on August 31, 2020, 09:18:35 AM
Ok guys - if In The Presence of Enemies was one 25 minute track - would you have it open Systematic Chaos or Close it

If you had asked me before the album came out, I would have said that having such a big epic to start the album would feel strange and out of place.  I seem to vaguely recall Portnoy saying something similar as part of his explanation for why they broke it up.  But having done a reshuffled playlist of the songs for my own version of the album, I now feel that it works EXTREMELY well.  Following it with the relatively short Forsaken feels good from a pacing standpoint.  And even though I don't much care for Ministry, it does work as a closer.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 31, 2020, 09:32:24 AM
Yeah, I could go either way, but Ministry's outro works perfectly as an album closer.  Also, don't think I would want Ministry and Presence back to back.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Buddyhunter1 on August 31, 2020, 10:10:48 AM
I think splitting it up into two parts was the smartest decision the band could have made, honestly. The two parts are different enough that they don't really need to be back-to-back and work perfectly fine apart, like with Shine On You Crazy Diamond for example.

If I had to group them together and put them either at the beginning or end I suppose I'd put them at the beginning, though that would result in TMOLS being likely their worst album closer ever. :lol
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 31, 2020, 02:16:29 PM
I think splitting it up into two parts was the smartest decision the band could have made, honestly. The two parts are different enough that they don't really need to be back-to-back and work perfectly fine apart, like with Shine On You Crazy Diamond for example.

If I had to group them together and put them either at the beginning or end I suppose I'd put them at the beginning, though that would result in TMOLS being likely their worst album closer ever. :lol

Nah, Illumination Theory would still be the worst closer.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: hunnus2000 on August 31, 2020, 02:34:25 PM
I think splitting it up into two parts was the smartest decision the band could have made, honestly. The two parts are different enough that they don't really need to be back-to-back and work perfectly fine apart, like with Shine On You Crazy Diamond for example.

If I had to group them together and put them either at the beginning or end I suppose I'd put them at the beginning, though that would result in TMOLS being likely their worst album closer ever. :lol

Nah, Illumination Theory would still be the worst closer.

Technically - IT is not the closer......  ;)
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 31, 2020, 03:50:11 PM
Technically it is because the Easter egg is not a separate track.  It's more like an epilogue.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 31, 2020, 06:14:01 PM
I put both parts at the end of the album. Forsaken's actually pretty cool as an opener.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: tony990 on September 15, 2020, 08:49:56 PM
I didn't like it at all the first time I listened to it. I discovered Dream Theater in early 2017 and I first heard Systematic Chaos in July of that year, but I made the mistake of reading reviews before listening to it, and the reviews all said it wasn't a good album, so I guess I was biased into thinking it was bad.

Ultimately, I started listening to Dark Eternal Night, since they led off with that at my first concert (in November 2017), and at the time determined it was my favorite song. I listened to a lot of different songs from the top half of the album for the next two years, but I really got into it last November, and then I realized it's a pretty good album. Still not one of my favorites, but In the Presence of Enemies Pt. 2 is flat-out incredible, and so is pretty much the rest of the album (I still can't get on board with Repentance, though).
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: silentmac6 on September 19, 2020, 08:10:05 AM
SC is a good solid album, not as good as what came before it but better than what came immediately afterwards. But then DT have never made a bad album. There are some good and slightly different songs here and the Muse influence is still in evidence. Repentance is probably the weakest song IMO, but is certainly not terrible. I wouldn't change the split for ITPOE, but if I had to make it one complete song, it would finish the album.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: DT1138 on October 23, 2020, 02:49:37 PM
I got into DT around the time of DT between TOT and Octavarium.  I'm not really a prog guy, but definitely am a metal one so I like Systematic Chaos a lot.  Getting the "making of" documentary disc along with it probably just biased me though because I really enjoyed that.  The only part of the album I don't care for is the spoken parts of "Repentance" (you get that beautiful JP solo and then lead into that, ugh...) and also how slowwwww "Ministry of Lost Souls" is until JP's lovely outro solo.

By comparison I like TOT a lot also, and BCSLs mostly (though I absolutely hate "Wither") even though the overall sound of the album sounds like all the fidelity was sucked out of it.  I think where BCSL fails though is that the songs have too many repeated riffs that could have been cut out to tighten up the songs.  JP's solos on the first two tracks alone still leave me speechless all these years later.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: H2 on October 23, 2020, 03:12:09 PM
When it first came out, I didn't like it very much. I didn't like the fantasy direction of the album's theme and thought there was a bit more sophistication in previous entries. After maybe six or seven years, I gained more appreciation for it. The album is sonically really nice, there is a distinct, dark, gripping tone from beginning to end, and there's only one song I really dislike (PoW). I'm not sure it's superior to any album preceding it, except for obviously WDADU (and maybe FII, and mayyyyybe Awake).

"Forsaken" is like a microcosm of the album for me. At first I hated it and thought it was so corny and I really disliked the fantasy theme. Now, I think it's almost a DT classic, and possibly the best track on the album. To a lesser extent, I used to dislike "The Dark Eternal Night", but now it really stands out as unique and kinda cute in its own way. "Constant Motion" is all right, I think, good energy, doesn't really stand out though. "Repentance" is very self-important and, although I used to like the 12SS a lot, I really don't these days. "Ministry of Lost Souls" reaches for something really beautiful and wonderful, but I feel it doesn't quite make it. "Prophets of War" is utter garbage, bad riffs, bad vocals, cringe lyrics. "In the Presence of Enemies" is really awesome, an epic that doesn't quite parallel Octavarium or Change of Seasons but is just slightly below them. It's certainly better than any epic from the Mangini era, however, and possibly better than anything on Black Clouds.
Title: Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
Post by: MetropolisWatches on October 25, 2020, 02:47:37 PM
Mixed feelings around time of release, but has aged remarkably well. Way better than Black Clouds and Silver Linings.

Repentance contains a very underrated Petrucci solo, and it's really one his all-time best.