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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on May 25, 2020, 11:15:02 AM
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Yes or no? What would you say?
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Well, what have we here!
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I clicked no, but it really depends since your question is too vague.
How are you defining intelligence? Without that, it can’t be measured.
How strong of a correlation are you talking about? Any? Significant? There’s likely some, but no idea how significant it is. Again, depends on definitions of intelligence.
Are you talking inclusive or exclusive tastes? Meaning, is liking Beethoven correlated for someone who also loves Lil Wayne too? Or do you have to not like Lil Wayne?
What age? Likely people in their 20s and 70s listen to different types of music based solely on how/when they grew up. Are we looking at equivalencies for different generations?
I’ll wait for your answers.
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I clicked yes, but it really depends since your question is too vague.
How are you defining intelligence? Without that, it can’t be measured.
How strong of a correlation are you talking about? Any? Significant? There’s likely some, but no idea how significant it is. Again, depends on definitions of intelligence.
Are you talking inclusive or exclusive tastes? Meaning, is liking Beethoven correlated for someone who also loves Lil Wayne too? Or do you have to not like Lil Wayne?
What age? Likely people in their 20s and 70s listen to different types of music based solely on how/when they grew up. Are we looking at equivalencies for different generations?
I’ll wait for your answers.
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No
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It's like you saw my post sort of defending you in the other thread and decided to make me look dumb. :lol
The question of whether there is a correlation would be a scientific question. We would have to take a representative sample of the population, ask them what type of music they listen to, and conduct an intelligence test. (Part of the challenge with such an experiment would be that the validity of intelligence tests like IQ is hotly debated.) We cannot answer a question like this in a poll.
And if there was a correlation, what would it prove? It would not prove that certain kinds of music make people smarter, or that intelligence causes people to enjoy certain kinds of music.
And then, even if, hypothetically, there was some sort of causal relationship at work here... would that cause you to change what you listen to? Because I've seen the kind of music you post favorably about, and I have to say, if in some way there really was a certain kind of music that was associate with intelligence, I really doubt that it would be "rock music from the 70s and 80s." It would probably be, like, Beethoven. So if a scientific study came out proving that 80s rock is for dumb-dumbs and smart people listen to Beethoven, would you give away all your 80s rock and replace it with a bunch of Beethoven recordings? If not, then why does this matter to you?
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Don't know, man. I'm leaning on nope because taste and intelligence (which one, btw? Are we sure there is only one kind of intelligence?) seem unrelated to me.
The question is a bit vague; maybe if you unpack it a bit I can get what you mean
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:rollin
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Well, what have we here!
Another discussion.
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troll
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How are you defining intelligence? Without that, it can’t be measured.
Most common definition for intelligent person: a person who has a high IQ
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How are you defining intelligence? Without that, it can’t be measured.
Most common definition for intelligent person: a person who has a high IQ
So an FSIQ of 110 or above? That’s high average. What about 120 or above? That’s superior. 130 and above is very superior. What’s your cutoff score?
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Congrats on 30,5k! :partyinpartyinyeah:
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Don't know, man. I'm leaning on nope because taste and intelligence (which one, btw? Are we sure there is only one kind of intelligence?) seem unrelated to me.
The question is a bit vague; maybe if you unpack it a bit I can get what you mean
OK. In your opinion, do people who have a high IQ tend to listen music like Beethoven, John Coltrane and Yes insted of Duran Duran, George Michael, Journey, KISS, Britney Spears, etc.
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troll
Can you contribute to this thread or NOT?
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troll
Can you contribute to this thread or NOT?
The irony is strong with the troll
Serious question, are you on the spectrum? You probably won't answer so whatever
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How are you defining intelligence? Without that, it can’t be measured.
Most common definition for intelligent person: a person who has a high IQ
So an FSIQ of 110 or above? That’s high average. What about 120 or above? That’s superior. 130 and above is very superior. What’s your cutoff score?
I’d actually be happy to help research your question, but my questions need to be answered first.
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Don't know, man. I'm leaning on nope because taste and intelligence (which one, btw? Are we sure there is only one kind of intelligence?) seem unrelated to me.
The question is a bit vague; maybe if you unpack it a bit I can get what you mean
The question doesn’t ask for ‘taste’, merely for ‘listening to’.
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Don't know, man. I'm leaning on nope because taste and intelligence (which one, btw? Are we sure there is only one kind of intelligence?) seem unrelated to me.
The question is a bit vague; maybe if you unpack it a bit I can get what you mean
The question doesn’t ask for ‘taste’, merely for ‘listening to’.
:lol I was assuming freewill
Don't know, man. I'm leaning on nope because taste and intelligence (which one, btw? Are we sure there is only one kind of intelligence?) seem unrelated to me.
The question is a bit vague; maybe if you unpack it a bit I can get what you mean
OK. In your opinion, do people who have a high IQ tend to listen music like Beethoven, John Coltrane and Yes insted of Duran Duran, George Michael, Journey, KISS, Britney Spears, etc.
In my opinion, no. Heck, I've been listening to Beethoven my whole life and I'm a bona fide dumbfock.
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Don't know, man. I'm leaning on nope because taste and intelligence (which one, btw? Are we sure there is only one kind of intelligence?) seem unrelated to me.
The question is a bit vague; maybe if you unpack it a bit I can get what you mean
OK. In your opinion, do people who have a high IQ tend to listen music like Beethoven, John Coltrane and Yes insted of Duran Duran, George Michael, Journey, KISS, Britney Spears, etc.
No because I'm not that intelligent and I love complex musical pieces.
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Not this shit again... How many more threads do we need where this exact same topic is discussed?
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Until the troll is slain it will continue terrorizing the townspeople
Where is our Gaston to this Beast?
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I mean, we act surprised, but he really told us in his username that his threads were going to range wildly across the forum.
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Until the troll is slain it will continue terrorizing the townspeople
Where is our Gaston to this Beast?
Katt, if WR is a troll (and I don't believe he is, but that's irrelevant), don't you think the one above is the exact response he's aiming to elicit?
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Until the troll is slain it will continue terrorizing the townspeople
Where is our Gaston to this Beast?
Katt, if WR is troll (and I don't believe he is, but that's irrelevant), don't you think the one above is the exact response he's aiming to elicit?
Get that high intellect stuff out of here. :lol
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I don't believe WildRanger is a troll, but that's irrelevant
Neither do I, to be honest.
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Yeah he’s not a troll. He’s just..... special.
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I also don't think he's a troll. There are a lot of people online who hold basically his exact beliefs. There are a fair few even in the archives of this forum. They just don't tend to stick around this community for long, because the culture here is so much not that.
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I feel there was a time when these threads were a lot less frequent and the topic itself actually made some sense and there was at least grounds for discussion. Coming tomorrow: "Are apples a better fruit than DT is a prog band?"
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I don't ccnsider him a troll either. He just has a very peculiar and perplexing way to see message boards and music opinions.
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Given how he cherry picks which questions to respond to, the nature of his incessant polling with nebulous questions, ignorance of well thought out replies, and insistence that there is some objective, intellectual superiority to enjoying music, I can only surmise he is either greatly on the spectrum, which is fine and would explain a lot of this, or he is a fantastic troll. I struggle to accept that someone so adamant in the belief of intellectual superiority and its relationship to the commercial success of artists would be so shallow in his responses and analysis of other comments, never mind his lack of participation in the countless pointless threads he creates, and his flagrant display of his complete lack of knowledge on the history of things he boasts about, like how classical music wasn't made for dancing or entertainment.
He will not respond to this just like he wouldn't respond when I asked him 3 times what he thought of my musical taste when I told him I listen to both classical and pop music or any number of other simple questions he's been asked.
Whether he looks for this response or not doesn't really matter to me, because I think at this point it's a fruitless endeavor to try to squeeze more BS out of him.
Troll.
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I find some of the OP's threads to be quite bizarre as well, but he is obviously not a troll, and this attempt to bully him away from the forum is kind of sad. If you don't like his threads, or anyone else's, DON'T POST IN THEM. Problem solved, people. Good grief.
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Happy Memorial Day to you as well, Kev! :)
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this attempt to bully him away from the forum is kind of sad
For the record, and just to clarify, this is absolutely not my intention. Though, as I mentioned in the previous thread of his, it does get rather frustrating when he dumps a question or statement and when I ask questions in return - to spark a discussion basically, I'm here to talk about this kind of stuff, let's focking do it then! - all my substantive question just get ignored. That's not really how to discuss stuff with people and that frustrates me at least a little. I try to engage, by replying, by asking questions in return, because somewhere in the ridiculous questions WildRanger posts, there's a lot of room for fantastic debate.
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I get that that can be frustrating, but no one is required any question asked of them, even in threads they start. That said, I get why some avoid his threads now for that very reason.
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I can't contribute in any positive way.
I do wonder, however, if Einstein would have liked King Missile.
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True, but I also assume that if you're genuinely interested in starting a discussion that you would actively engage in it as well. Why start the discussion if you're not interested in contributing at all?
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True, but I also assume that if you're genuinely interested in starting a discussion that you would actively engage in it as well. Why start the discussion if you're not interested in contributing at all?
Maybe simply to see what others think, and then if a discussion breaks out among other forum members, sometimes just reading their discussion can be entertaining and worthwhile.
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No
I'm not sure why there has been a single post in this thread past this point. I already gave a clear and succinct yet undisputed argument.
Also lol @ the IQ argument, IQ tests were invented as a form of eugenics. They don't mean crap.
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True, but I also assume that if you're genuinely interested in starting a discussion that you would actively engage in it as well. Why start the discussion if you're not interested in contributing at all?
Because the opinions of repliers matter more than mine.
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Given how he cherry picks which questions to respond to, the nature of his incessant polling with nebulous questions, ignorance of well thought out replies, and insistence that there is some objective, intellectual superiority to enjoying music, I can only surmise he is either greatly on the spectrum, which is fine and would explain a lot of this, or he is a fantastic troll. I struggle to accept that someone so adamant in the belief of intellectual superiority and its relationship to the commercial success of artists would be so shallow in his responses and analysis of other comments, never mind his lack of participation in the countless pointless threads he creates, and his flagrant display of his complete lack of knowledge on the history of things he boasts about, like how classical music wasn't made for dancing or entertainment.
He will not respond to this just like he wouldn't respond when I asked him 3 times what he thought of my musical taste when I told him I listen to both classical and pop music or any number of other simple questions he's been asked.
Whether he looks for this response or not doesn't really matter to me, because I think at this point it's a fruitless endeavor to try to squeeze more BS out of him.
Troll.
I really doubt that you know the true meaning of the term "troll".
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Thanks for adding the "unsure" option. I think it's the only way to go without having any scientific research on it. Although I'm very much on the side of "how would we even measure it, and why would it matter?"
WildRanger, do you think you could explain why you are so interested in this particular question?
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Thanks for adding the "unsure" option. I think it's the only way to go without having any scientific research on it. Although I'm very much on the side of "how would we even measure it, and why would it matter?"
WildRanger, do you think you could explain why you are so interested in this particular question?
I just think it's an interesting discussion.
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Could you reply to my questions? If not, then I’m done.
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Why start the discussion if you're not interested in contributing at all?
Because the opinions of repliers matter more than mine.
Thanks! That's a valid answer I suppose, though you're obviously allowed to have an opinion yourself and you're allowed to share your ideas as well! I can definitely understand that it's interesting to view other people's opinions on certain topics.
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My opinions on this subject usually get raked over the coals because it's extremely nuanced and yet somehow controversial at the same time. It's starts to delve into "is good music objective or subjective" territory, and I always have to wear a flame suit for that conversation. :lol
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Let's do it! :flame:
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i will literally delete your existence in real life if you try to start that again
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On a scale from 'trucker who listens to country music and married his cousin' to 'progressive rock connoisseur who works at wall street and drinks fine wine' where do you fall?
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On a scale from 'trucker who listens to country music and married his cousin' to 'progressive rock connoisseur who works at wall street and drinks fine wine' where do you fall?
:rollin
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In the absence of a statistically valid survey that correlates intelligence quotient (or however else one my quantify intelligence) and styles of music, this is an absurd inquiry.
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Don't know about intelligence. But regarding taste...in my youth I used to think I had superior musical taste. Now I realize I was an arrogant, deluded fool for thinking that way.
Everybody should listen to whatever music which fulfills the need for which they are listening to music. ;)
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The beast with a million
backs threads
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Don't know about intelligence. But regarding taste...in my youth I used to think I had superior musical taste. Now I realize I was an arrogant, deluded fool for thinking that way.
Everybody should listen to whatever music which fulfills the need for which they are listening to music. ;)
Weren't we all like that? :lol
I touted U2 to my friends, they wanted nothing to do with them. Then War comes out and they were all talking about it. I slowly pulled away from U2 to be different. :lol
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Don't know about intelligence. But regarding taste...in my youth I used to think I had superior musical taste. Now I realize I was an arrogant, deluded fool for thinking that way.
Everybody should listen to whatever music which fulfills the need for which they are listening to music. ;)
Weren't we all like that? :lol
I touted U2 to my friends, they wanted nothing to do with them. Then War comes out and they were all talking about it. I slowly pulled away from U2 to be different. :lol
Dang. Wasn't that like their 1st album? :D
Funny you should mention that, because it seems it always works that way with 'indie' music. It's only cool when you're the only person listening. Then they're "your" band. I remember when Modest Mouse became popular. All the people that used to sing their praises suddenly turned on them!
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this is why i listen exclusively to obscure metal bands that nobody else could possible like
east of the wall are my band and it'll forever stay that way 'cause everyone else hates them :loser:
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Same thing happened with Living Colour. I tried playing them Vivid. Nobody cared. Then a few months later a few of the guys told me, "Did you see that "Cult Of Personality" video? It rocks!
I was like, "You assholes! I was trying to play that album for you guys a few months ago!" :lol
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this is why i listen exclusively to obscure metal bands that nobody else could possible like
east of the wall are my band and it'll forever stay that way 'cause everyone else hates them :loser:
:lol
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Thank you to those being reasonable and level-headed in their posts in this thread, there's really no need to be nasty about it.
However, I do agree with the sentiment that this is a weird topic for a forum discussion. The question is a scientific one in nature, so the opinion of random people on a forum isn't relevant.
There has actually been various bits of research into the correlation between music tastes/habits and either measures of intelligence or personality types. Google seems like a more sensible source for such a question, surely: https://www.google.com/search?q=intelligence+and+music+taste
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I always use DTF instead of Google. :P
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I always use DTF instead of Google. :P
we know.
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I always use DTF instead of Google. :P
Yeah Google takes all the fun out of interacting with real people. It's more fun to get it wrong in real time so people can set me straight.
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I just want to say I don't think anything I've said has been explicitly "nasty" per se and I may very well be wrong that he is not a troll. Clearly I am the one man flying that flag but I've said my piece and won't derail again. You can find me in the local tavern sharpening my pitchfork and being an all around grumpy SOB. :lol
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(https://i.imgur.com/hqzDmEd.jpg)
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:rollin
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I always use DTF instead of that Google thing. :P
This sounds more like you.
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Anyone who thinks they're smarter for listening to a certain type of music is a pretentious ass.
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Anyone who thinks they're smarter for listening to a certain type of music is a pretentious ass.
That's exactly what someone dumber than me would say!
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Anyone who thinks they're smarter for listening to a certain type of music is a pretentious ass.
That's exactly what someone dumber than me would say!
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwMMMKWw/giphy-1.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
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I used to think more intelligent brains could digest complex music a lot easier but now I know I'm wrong. I'm just an average person when it comes to intellect, but I love complex adventurous music. I think it might come down to the personality type. Some people aren't as musically inclined as others, especially when it comes to learning an instrument. That doesn't mean they are less intelligent, they just don't have the passion, love, or sense of adventure for music itself. There are physicists out there that can do complex mathematical equations in their head, but they can't carry a tune in a bag.
I have a friend just like that who is a physicist, artist, mechanic, and an extremely smart business man among many other things yet he prefers simple music. I've let him borrow some of my prog music cd's and he couldn't stand the bands I love like DT, and I know he is far more intelligent than me. It just comes down to a matter of taste, I think... Everybody's brain perceives things differently and that's why there are so many different kinds of music.
If you like country and rap, then your just stupid...JK. :biggrin:
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Anyone who thinks they're smarter for listening to a certain type of music is a pretentious ass.
That's exactly what someone dumber than me would say!
If only i listened to more Queensryche and Fates Warning...
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Anyone who thinks they're smarter for listening to a certain type of music is a pretentious ass.
That's exactly what someone dumber than me would say!
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwMMMKWw/giphy-1.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
I don't think the old lady in the gold dress in the front row is wearing a bra. You can't unsee them.
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It's 30 Helens agree but I know you wouldn't k ow the show it's from. Lol
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It's 30 Helens agree but I know you wouldn't k ow the show it's from. Lol
Go home, you're drunk.
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It's 30 Helens agree but I know you wouldn't k ow the show it's from. Lol
I know the show.
It's called The Real Grannies Of New Hampshire.
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Easy TAC Jr. Lol
Google it.
It's 30 Helens agree but I know you wouldn't k ow the show it's from. Lol
I know the show.
It's called The Real Grannies Of New Hampshire.
I just gave you the name of the skut. :facepalm: :lol
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Google it.
That's just asking for ...............TAC: "What's Google?"
Unless you like country and rap, then your just stupid...JK. :biggrin:
Until you spelled it out I never realised
CountryRAP
I have a feeling there might be an inverse correlation between intelligence and time spent in these threads. Cya :)
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I know what google is. I just don't know what a skut is.
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Look at the page before about Google. Lol
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Skit you fucker. :lol
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Skut you ficker
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Wait, are you calling me TAC Jr? I mean, I am pretty crotchety, but I'm not that bad.
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Wait, are you calling me TAC Jr? I mean, I am pretty crotchety, but I'm not that bad.
Not knowing the show that's from.
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Wait, are you calling me TAC Jr? I mean, I am pretty crotchety, but I'm not that bad.
Not knowing the show that's from.
I rarely watch TV, so I wouldn't be able to name any newer shows, especially reality shows. Those shows are cancer.
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Kids In The Hall. A sketch comedy show on HBO from Lorne Michaels of SNL fame.
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KITH is great.
There's a Mike Tyson joke waiting to be made there.
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Oh, well now I definitely won't be watching.
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I've seen Kids In The Hall. Like over 30 years ago.
"I'm squishing your head."
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And the Men In Black got to you Tim.
Zook, your loss.
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Oh, well now I definitely won't be watching.
It's funny
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This escalted quickly.
I voted yes but as others have said, it's very vague. Perhaps intelligence level would relate more to taste as opposed to being able to enjoy a certain style based on how intelligent one is.
I think you do have to be a certain type of person to enjoy a lot of the music we all enjoy though. I'm a smart guy and where I live, I just never come across people liking a lot of the bands I do. Even back in the day when I was in bands and worked as a music store, everyone was so mainstream in what they liked. Those people like me are out there I'm sure, but I couldn't be fucked looking for them. Even people I do come across that like metal, again you try and delve into more obscure bands and all you get is a blank stare.
It's funny, I go out running and just have music going through my phone. I don't wear earbuds or anything but I like to have long songs when I'm running (Crimson, Light of Day, Winter's Gate, some Agalloch maybe) and the looks I get from every single person I run past is priceless. I love it.
I do personally feel though on a whole what people listen to represents their intelligence level somewhat, but probably not everyone. But I'm pretty bitter and negative so it's probably just me lol.
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I will also say I wouldn't say Wildranger is a troll. I'm not sure his motives behind a lot of his threads are and just posting a topic and not engaging in the conversation is strange I admit, but I think troll is a little harsh. I do think anyone that starts a thread has the responsibility to take control and ownership of it in some way and heavily engage and steer the discussion if needed. Sitting back and vanishing after starting a topic is strange. Unless he's trying to post controversial topics and disappearing in the hope to start arguments between people, I don't know. I can see how that would be deemed troll like, but I don't think that are his motives at all.
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This HAS been researched somewhat; after some simple Googling- it looks like preferences towards instrumental music may be a predictor of higher intelligence.
Looks like there is some evidence that taste in music can also be a predictor in personality type.
I would assume being introduced to music at an early age would be a good predictor of intelligence- if parents are actively engaging their children (through music) then most likely those children (as an average) will show better school performance, testing, what have you. But that’s just speculation. We do know that music serves as good learning devices (A,B,Cs for example) and increases vocabulary.
I put unsure, though, as I’m not a psychologist and I haven’t studied this AT ALL beyond the surface.
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I am not sure about the answer to this, I haven't done the research, so I can only talk from personal experience and intuition. Yes, I believe it certainly does to a certain extent, although I wouldn't say it is a rule like "if you like this kind of music you are smarter than (fill in the blank)" or "by liking this kind of music makes you immediately dumber". But it certainly says something about your personality, how do you process information, emotions, etc.
Then the topic of interest comes up. How many people actually listen to a certain kind of music because they REALLY like it and are truly interested in music in general? How many people are dumbed down and just follow blindly whatever is considered "acceptable" or society deems as "good music", so they listen to the same kind of music the group does to fit in and be accepted and not to be labeled as "weirdos" or "nerds" or whatever. Can we say such a person "likes" the music? Even when it is obviously influenced by some external pressure and there is actually not much freedom to like what you like without being stigmatized? Are you free to enjoy what you genuinely like without the threat of losing your attachment to your friends? I believe many people are not.
So it is a very complicated question and a lot of factors have to be taken into account.
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There have been studies CORRELATING* higher intelligence (using IQ) with both classical music and instrumental music.
The problem, though, is that word "correlating". In the context of Wild Ranger's other thread about the "objectivity" of "good music", the tendency is to take a numerical piece of data - IQ - and use it to quantify the "subjective". It doesn't work that way. "Correlation" is not "causation", either way. So someone that listens to classical music, for example, cannot use that to claim a level of "intelligence", and just because one listens to country and western or rap, others cannot make guesses about their intelligence.
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I voted no, but I think it's important to define what we're talking about here. If intelligence means the ability to understand music theory, then I think music with complex levels of music theory would indicate more intelligence. If intelligence means the ability to understand political or social issues, then maybe more lyrical genres like punk, folk, singer-songwriter, or rap would indicate more intelligence. If intelligence means creative intelligence, then avant garde music may be an indicator of that (since the person will likely have their own unique interpretation of that kind of music). If "intelligence" is taken literally in that the person does a lot of thinking or enjoys focusing on complex things outside of music, then relaxing ambient or study music could be an indicator.
But of course, there are exceptions to all of those correlations. Just because someone likes complex music doesn't mean they understand what's going on in it, just because someone likes music with a lyrical focus doesn't mean that said lyrics are always profound, just because someone likes avant garde music doesn't mean that they think deeply about what each element of the music means to them, & just because someone likes ambient music doesn't mean they're deep in concentration whenever they listen to it.
In writing this, I present my own definition of intelligence: the ability to understand new concepts without difficulty. From that perspective, the question of whether there's a correlation between one specific genre of music & a higher level of intelligence is "yes: a negative one", because it demonstrates an inability to learn new concepts & ideas beyond one's own already-existing understanding.
But even that conclusion has its issues. For example, if someone had absolutely zero level of critical thought (i.e. probably not very much intelligence), then they would like every type of music known to mankind. On the other hand, an inability to enjoy other styles of music doesn't mean that someone couldn't learn about the styles' background & the appeal it has to some people. On the other other hand, just because someone isn't musically intelligent doesn't mean that they can't be intelligent in other areas of their life.
Also for the record, by my own definition, I'm a fucking idiot. :P
So I think it's a personal question because intelligence can be interpreted in so many different ways, but for me, the answer is "no", because the vagueness of the question means that correlation can't be quantified in any definitive meaningful way.
TL;DR No, because intelligence covers so many different areas of the abilities of a person, & in any definition that could be correlated to certain musical styles, there will always be exceptions that don't listen to that style for the reasons you assume they do.