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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: MirrorMask on March 04, 2020, 01:58:42 PM

Title: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: MirrorMask on March 04, 2020, 01:58:42 PM
The recent discussion in the factoids topic about which songs Jordan played made me wonder... how many songs do you think DT will probably never play live again?

"Never" is a strong word, after all even in the post MP era they proved to be able to pull out some surprises and deep cuts - Space Dye Vest being the prime example - but let's face it, the catalogue is ever increasing, new songs will always have a spot in the setlist and from previous albums the list of songs that prove favorable with the audience will grow as well.

No song will probably ever be officially retired, and any song "could" be played, but realistically many songs will never be played live again (not famous enough with the fans, too hard for James, too difficult to re-learn for the band members etc...).... which songs do you reckon will never find a place again in a DT live set and why?
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: bosk1 on March 04, 2020, 02:10:02 PM
Unless they decided to do a special performance of The Astonishing, I would be surprised to see anything but the singles and maybe a couple of other songs from that album resurface.  Otherwise, the only other stuff from the Mangini era that I would expect to not come back would be the "ballads":  This is the Life, Far From Heaven, Beneath the Surface, Along for the Ride, and Out of Reach. 

Others I think are unlikely (album cuts only):
-Wither
-TSF
-TBOT
-TMOLS
-Never Enough
-Prophets
-The Answer Lies Within
-Anna Lee
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Lonk on March 04, 2020, 02:12:17 PM
Not sure about specific songs but I would assume certain songs from TA will never see the stage again, specially since they wouldn't work as a stand alone song (Road to revolution, Heaven's Cove, Astonishing, Brother can you hear me?, and others). I also would not be surprise if some songs from SFAM don't get played again (Beyond this life?).

Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Setlist Scotty on March 04, 2020, 02:25:11 PM
My guesses:

Status Seeker - obscure
The Killing Hand - obscure/difficult vocally
Light Fuse And Get Away - obscure
The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun - obscure
Only A Matter Of Time - obscure

To Live Forever - previous audience reaction
Don't Look Past Me - previous audience reaction/difficult vocally

Another Day - difficult vocally
Take the Time - difficult vocally

Eve - obscure

Innocence Faded - obscure/difficult vocally
Voices - difficult vocally

Raise the Knife - obscure
Where Are You Now? - obscure
The Way It Used to Be - obscure
Cover My Eyes - obscure
Speak to Me - obscure

New Millennium - JL hates performing this song
You Not Me - obscure
Lines In The Sand - a "Derek" song
Take Away My Pain - obscure
Just Let Me Breathe - too much from the Derek era (tho not a "Derek" song per se)
Anna Lee - obscure/a "Derek" song

The Glass Prison - difficult parts for JP
Blind Faith - obscure/difficult parts for JP
The Great Debate - previous audience reaction

Honor Thy Father - personal MP lyrics

The Answer Lies Within - obscure
Never Enough - personal MP lyrics

Repentance - obscure
Prophets Of War - obscure
The Ministry of Lost Souls - obscure/too long for mellow-ish song

The Best of Times - personal MP lyrics

Raw Dog - obscure

Build Me Up, Break Me Down - obscure/not typical DT song
Far from Heaven - too mellow
Beneath the Surface - too mellow

most of The Astonishing
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Buddyhunter1 on March 04, 2020, 02:41:05 PM
I wouldn't really count the "Derek" songs and the "personal lyrics" songs (with the exception of The Best Of Times) out considering they've played Space Dye Vest, ACOS and some of the 12-step suite.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: bosk1 on March 04, 2020, 02:49:54 PM
I don't think they'll be played either, but not exactly for that reason.  If nobody in the band actively wants to play a song, it won't get played. 
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: MirrorMask on March 04, 2020, 03:01:02 PM
Not sure about specific songs but I would assume certain songs from TA will never see the stage again, specially since they wouldn't work as a stand alone song (Road to revolution, Heaven's Cove, Astonishing, Brother can you hear me?, and others). I also would not be surprise if some songs from SFAM don't get played again (Beyond this life?).

Yeah, I was wondering about The Astonishing as well, the only song that "survived" (in the following tour) were The Gift of Music, A Life Left Behind and Our New World. I could see them dowm the line reviving one of those, or maybe A New Beginning (for the solo) or Ravenskill, but I don't think the "lesser" songs of the album will be ever considered, I mean, do you see them pulling out The Answer just because the set is 2-3 minutes short?

And speaking of SFAM, the only song of the album I never saw live in 20 years of concerts (since I missed the original tour) is Through Her Eyes, so I think I heard it for the first and last time when I saw them a month ago. And Regression, d'uh.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Cool Chris on March 04, 2020, 06:26:24 PM
I don't give a rip if a song is "too personal" to a member who is no longer in the band. If it is a good song, play the damn thing (I don't know if any of those Scotty listed as such qualifies, I am more speaking on principle).
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: KevShmev on March 04, 2020, 06:47:20 PM
I doubt the band would have a problem playing a "Derek" song, and I have a hard time calling Lines in the Sand a "Derek" song.  Okay, he wrote that bad ass intro, but it's still very much a Dream Theater song. 

It remains to be seen how many touring cycles the band has left (maybe a handful?), so I am sure the list of songs that will never get played again is longer than any of us realize, especially given how static the set lists have been the last few years.  Heck, four of the 10 new songs from last year have yet to get played despite a year of touring on the album now, and the first three Mangini albums have all been poorly represented live other than the touring cycles on those albums (Breaking All Illusions being the exception).

Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Setlist Scotty on March 04, 2020, 07:26:23 PM
I don't think they'll be played either, but not exactly for that reason.  If nobody in the band actively wants to play a song, it won't get played.
Absolutely true. But I can't imagine that in most cases the band is gonna want to perform some of those songs with MP penned lyrics partially because of the lyrics.
 
 
I don't give a rip if a song is "too personal" to a member who is no longer in the band. If it is a good song, play the damn thing (I don't know if any of those Scotty listed as such qualifies, I am more speaking on principle).
I don't think it would be so much a matter of them doing it out of respect for MP as much as they just don't feel comfortable performing the song because of the lyrics which the rest of the guys don't relate to or don't agree with.
 
 
I doubt the band would have a problem playing a "Derek" song, and I have a hard time calling Lines in the Sand a "Derek" song.  Okay, he wrote that bad ass intro, but it's still very much a Dream Theater song. 
Well considering how DS and MP are now in a band together, and they just performed JLMB and LitS with their band, I can easily see them steering clear of those songs for that reason alone (not wanting to be compared to SoA's performance of the song). Not hard to do given the huge catalog of other songs they have to pick from.
 
 
It remains to be seen how many touring cycles the band has left (maybe a handful?), so I am sure the list of songs that will never get played again is longer than any of us realize, especially given how static the set lists have been the last few years.  Heck, four of the 10 new songs from last year have yet to get played despite a year of touring on the album now, and the first three Mangini albums have all been poorly represented live other than the touring cycles on those albums (Breaking All Illusions being the exception).
The static setlists are definitely part of the problem - had they kept the rotating setlists or at least alternating setlists, they could include many more songs within a tour cycle. And while I know it's controversial, I think it would be nice to include a medley, highlighting the best parts of various songs that they otherwise will probably never play again, such as the instrumental sections of NE and TMoLS, the outro guitar solos to TBoT and ANB, etc. I mean, I know it will never happen since JP hates medleys, but it would be one way to satisfy playing some of these songs.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: TAC on March 04, 2020, 07:48:30 PM
No medleys, please.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Lonk on March 04, 2020, 07:54:28 PM
Am I the only one who likes medleys?
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: KevShmev on March 04, 2020, 08:57:08 PM
I doubt the band would have a problem playing a "Derek" song, and I have a hard time calling Lines in the Sand a "Derek" song.  Okay, he wrote that bad ass intro, but it's still very much a Dream Theater song. 
Well considering how DS and MP are now in a band together, and they just performed JLMB and LitS with their band, I can easily see them steering clear of those songs for that reason alone (not wanting to be compared to SoA's performance of the song). Not hard to do given the huge catalog of other songs they have to pick from.

No offense to Sons of Apollo, but I doubt Dream Theater cares too much if some new band with a couple of old members is playing a few of their songs.  DT doesn't need to punch down like that.


The static setlists are definitely part of the problem - had they kept the rotating setlists or at least alternating setlists, they could include many more songs within a tour cycle. And while I know it's controversial, I think it would be nice to include a medley, highlighting the best parts of various songs that they otherwise will probably never play again, such as the instrumental sections of NE and TMoLS, the outro guitar solos to TBoT and ANB, etc. I mean, I know it will never happen since JP hates medleys, but it would be one way to satisfy playing some of these songs.

Thank goodness. Medleys can look good on paper, but in reality they are major teases live and almost always wholly unsatisfying.  It's like you are just getting into a song and then boom they suddenly go into another for no reason other than to check mark another song off the list as having been played.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: PetFish on March 04, 2020, 10:50:03 PM
Am I the only one who likes medleys?

I'm with you on Team Medleys.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: gzarruk on March 04, 2020, 11:13:51 PM
Am I the only one who likes medleys?

I don't like them, but I'd gladly take a TA medley, just for some of those songs to be played live again.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: MirrorMask on March 05, 2020, 01:23:12 AM
Thank goodness. Medleys can look good on paper, but in reality they are major teases live and almost always wholly unsatisfying.  It's like you are just getting into a song and then boom they suddenly go into another for no reason other than to check mark another song off the list as having been played.

Well, this could be solved announcing the medley. It's part of the fun to listen, for example, to the Instrumedley and realize what they're doing ("but... but... they're sticking together all solo sections!!!"), but imagine if in 2022 James after a song says "So, 20 years ago Six Degrees was released, we want to honor it but you can guess we can't play 90 minutes of an album or 42 minutes of the title song, so the next 25 minutes will be dedicated to a medley of the album, enjoy", you would not be let down if you know beforehand they're gonna play short sections here and there.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Setlist Scotty on March 05, 2020, 06:38:54 AM
Thank goodness. Medleys can look good on paper, but in reality they are major teases live and almost always wholly unsatisfying.  It's like you are just getting into a song and then boom they suddenly go into another for no reason other than to check mark another song off the list as having been played.
Well, this could be solved announcing the medley. It's part of the fun to listen, for example, to the Instrumedley and realize what they're doing ("but... but... they're sticking together all solo sections!!!"), but imagine if in 2002 James after a song says "So, 20 years ago Six Degrees was released, we want to honor it but you can guess we can't play 90 minutes of an album or 42 minutes of the title song, so the next 25 minutes will be dedicated to a medley of the album, enjoy", you would not be let down if you know beforehand they're gonna play short sections here and there.
Sounds good but I doubt that would satisfy the medley-haters here. Their attitude seems to be "all or nothing". I'd rather having something rather than nothing at all.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: cramx3 on March 05, 2020, 01:51:10 PM
Not sure about specific songs but I would assume certain songs from TA will never see the stage again, specially since they wouldn't work as a stand alone song (Road to revolution, Heaven's Cove, Astonishing, Brother can you hear me?, and others). I also would not be surprise if some songs from SFAM don't get played again (Beyond this life?).

Some of those songs couldn't even survive The Astonishing tour.  Sad to admit it, but I agree, unless they surprise me and do a special TA show, those songs are likely retired.  Although, they could do few song sections across multiple tours... but then we get the age thing and the relevance of newer songs.

Am I the only one who likes medleys?

I don't like them, but I'd gladly take a TA medley, just for some of those songs to be played live again.

I enjoy them quite a bit especially the medley's DT have done.  However, I'd rather see DT do a few songs from a part of TA than a medley of TA.  The songs are too short to make a medley, just play 3 or 4 of them in a row. 
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Buddyhunter1 on March 05, 2020, 02:37:28 PM
They could just play Dystopian Overture, which is already basically a medly and covers all of the good musical ideas in the album in five minutes. :lol
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: geeeemo on March 05, 2020, 06:37:54 PM
They could just play Dystopian Overture, which is already basically a medly and covers all of the good musical ideas in the album in five minutes. :lol

Yes except for one of the highlights of the album is James LaBrie.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: KevShmev on March 05, 2020, 08:35:14 PM

Well, this could be solved announcing the medley. It's part of the fun to listen, for example, to the Instrumedley and realize what they're doing ("but... but... they're sticking together all solo sections!!!"), but imagine if in 2022 James after a song says "So, 20 years ago Six Degrees was released, we want to honor it but you can guess we can't play 90 minutes of an album or 42 minutes of the title song, so the next 25 minutes will be dedicated to a medley of the album, enjoy", you would not be let down if you know beforehand they're gonna play short sections here and there.

To be fair, if I know a medley is coming, it is far easier to deal with since I know kind of what to expect, when and where.  There were still moments where I wanted a song to keep going rather than jumping to the next, but I enjoyed the Aquamedley I saw Haken do two years ago, as well as the one Neal Morse Band did as an encore on last year's tour.  In both cases, I pretty much know beforehand what was getting played in the medley, so I was mentally prepared for it. 
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on March 06, 2020, 07:09:40 AM
I like medleys, but I can live without them..the only thing that from a medley point of view makes sense is to make a TA medley..although I'm not a fan of the album but why not really get down and present the strongest moments and songs from it..they missed the opportunity of making a live recording of it so why not include it as a special thing on one of their future set lists..that would be very good for the fans that still like the album!
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: MirrorMask on March 06, 2020, 07:12:34 AM
They could just play Dystopian Overture, which is already basically a medly and covers all of the good musical ideas in the album in five minutes. :lol

It will never happen, but a cool idea - and that could help the hardcore musicians to re-evaluate the album - is using Dystopian Overture as a starting point, and turning it into an "Astonishing Instrumedley". Stretch the song to 10-15 minutes inserting all the other stuff that isn't already there and touching on some other memorable moments of the album.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: EPIC Outro on March 06, 2020, 10:18:09 AM

Medleys are like a self contained mini concert. I love that moment of confusion before you realize what part of a song they just transitioned into.

And even though JP has mentioned disliking medleys in the past, I dont think he would never do one again if he thought the fans would really dig it.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: cramx3 on March 06, 2020, 10:20:58 AM

Medleys are like a self contained mini concert. I love that moment of confusion before you realize what part of a song they just transitioned into.

And even though JP has mentioned disliking medleys in the past, I dont think he would never do one again if he thought the fans would really dig it.

Do we know how the rest of the band feels about them?  Seems it was a MP thing, but if others like JM or JLB like them, then I could see that maybe swaying over JP but I kind of feel like if JP doesn't want to do it, they won't even if the fans really want it (which is very debatable).
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 06, 2020, 10:37:33 AM
Pretty sure that JP has veto power.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if all (or almost all) of the members also had veto power.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: bosk1 on March 06, 2020, 10:58:53 AM
I don't think any of them would say that the term "veto power" hits the mark, even if it may technically be true.  But I think you are right that any of them have the ability to say "no, I don't really want to do [X song/medley/whatever" for whatever reason.  I think JP is the strongest voice when it comes to stuff like that.  But I also think that he tends to be pretty considerate about what he believes others would not want to do.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: TAC on March 06, 2020, 11:42:25 AM
They could just play Dystopian Overture, which is already basically a medly and covers all of the good musical ideas in the album in five minutes. :lol

It will never happen, but a cool idea - and that could help the hardcore musicians to re-evaluate the album - is using Dystopian Overture as a starting point, and turning it into an "Astonishing Instrumedley". Stretch the song to 10-15 minutes inserting all the other stuff that isn't already there and touching on some other memorable moments of the album.

It'll be interesting how they treat The Astonishing material going forward. Will they play a stand alone track like A Gift Of Music or (yawn) Our New World. A 15-20 minute mini suite comprising parts of a bunch of songs where they can kind of tell the story would be cool.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 06, 2020, 12:37:45 PM
Am I the only one who likes medleys?

Nope....I like them as well because honestly.....the ones they've done have been REALLY well done. I'm perfectly fine with a medley....
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Setlist Scotty on March 06, 2020, 01:33:30 PM
Given the discussion about medleys in general, for those who hadn't already voted, it would be interesting to see how everyone feels about medleys as expressed in this poll:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53418.0
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Herrick on March 06, 2020, 01:41:37 PM
I'd rather hear one song from a medley played in its entirety rather than the medley.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: bosk1 on March 06, 2020, 01:55:29 PM
Generally, I agree.  But I am not against medleys either (as I mentioned in that thread).  But it also just depends.  I love The Big Medley from the Ronnie Scott's show, for example.  That was so cleverly done.  Medleys absolutely can be done well.  And they can feel like a cheap way to just mash some excerpts together in an unsatisfying way instead of just playing a song or two as a whole.  Again, it just depends.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Lonk on March 06, 2020, 02:00:42 PM
I forgot about that poll and funny enough, I voted for the first option.

I was listening to awake earlier and thought about this thread. I think because of JLB's vocal Innocent Faded, Voices and Caught in a Web will not be played again.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: KidInTheDark666 on March 06, 2020, 04:43:19 PM
I forgot about that poll and funny enough, I voted for the first option.

I was listening to awake earlier and thought about this thread. I think because of JLB's vocal Innocent Faded, Voices and Caught in a Web will not be played again.
We could add Scarred and The Mirror there too.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: EPIC Outro on March 06, 2020, 07:07:19 PM

I'm pretty sure James has gone on record saying he loves singing Scarred live
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: KidInTheDark666 on March 06, 2020, 08:39:01 PM
I mean he can sing it if he wants to but it probably won't sound very good.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: SeRoX on March 07, 2020, 01:29:31 AM
The Mirror / Lie is DT's popular duo songs and I think they'll play them again. James can handle. As for Voices, older fan base misses hearing this song live and I think we can hear it again with some minor vocal changes for James' sake.

Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: V_R11 on March 07, 2020, 01:47:54 AM
Am I the only one who likes medleys?

Younger fan, so I've never heard them do one live, sadly. I like them. But I read somewhere Petrucci has said that he prefers not to play them

Adding to the topic, I'm thinking about Octavarium...it's kinda THE DT song for me and I would love to hear it, but I doubt it. I mean, they did ACOS so it's not impossible but...
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Fritzinger on March 07, 2020, 05:39:45 AM
I think it will never be played... But am I the only one who would love to see Raw Dog live??? I love that heavy mess of riffs  :biggrin: And call me weird but I think this would make for a pretty awesome Wtf-concert opener. Blast the audience's ears away with a crazy instrumental before JLB comes out and everyone goes nuts.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: MirrorMask on March 07, 2020, 05:49:45 AM
I'd rather hear You Not Me before Raw Dog.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Lonk on March 07, 2020, 06:03:33 AM
I wouldn’t mind Raw Dog, but 7:35 is long to include something a handful of fans know and majority might not enjoy it.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: cramx3 on March 11, 2020, 01:40:25 PM
I'd dig some raw dog live, but yea, that's never happening
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 12, 2020, 07:43:22 AM
I would rather hear the Canadian Rap than hear Raw Dog.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Setlist Scotty on March 12, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Was just listening to d/t earlier today after not having listened to it for a long time, and one thing that struck me is how I can't imagine DT ever performing S2N live. With JL struggling as he does now, all those rapid fire vocals would leave him out of breath. Reminds me of how Queensryche only played their lead single from their self-titled album (their first with Todd La Torre on vocals) a handful of times in comparison to other songs from the album, most likely for this very reason.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 12, 2020, 09:23:10 AM
Was just listening to d/t earlier today after not having listened to it for a long time, and one thing that struck me is how I can't imagine DT ever performing S2N live. With JL struggling as he does now, all those rapid fire vocals would leave him out of breath. Reminds me of how Queensryche only played their lead single from their self-titled album (their first with Todd La Torre on vocals) a handful of times in comparison to other songs from the album, most likely for this very reason.
I agree with you about the rapid fire vocals.  That song might be impossible to perform live (at least, completely live - maybe with some of those vocal lines built into a backing track or something, but I would rather not).
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: bosk1 on March 12, 2020, 09:36:17 AM
:wow:
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Ben_Jamin on March 12, 2020, 12:06:57 PM
Was just listening to d/t earlier today after not having listened to it for a long time, and one thing that struck me is how I can't imagine DT ever performing S2N live. With JL struggling as he does now, all those rapid fire vocals would leave him out of breath. Reminds me of how Queensryche only played their lead single from their self-titled album (their first with Todd La Torre on vocals) a handful of times in comparison to other songs from the album, most likely for this very reason.
I agree with you about the rapid fire vocals.  That song might be impossible to perform live (at least, completely live - maybe with some of those vocal lines built into a backing track or something, but I would rather not).

I would think JLB and JP would switch off each line and harmonize "Innocent Die".
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Evai on March 13, 2020, 03:40:03 PM
I would think JLB and JP would switch off each line and harmonize "Innocent Die".

That'd be nice, I haven't heard JP sing in concert for a long time
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: brents319 on September 07, 2021, 08:35:23 AM
So....this topic hasn't been touched in awhile.  Curious, since last year (2020) DT released a stand alone medley single...anyone really think JP has a 'real' problem with medleys?
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 07, 2021, 08:47:04 AM
So....this topic hasn't been touched in awhile.  Curious, since last year (2020) DT released a stand alone medley single...anyone really think JP has a 'real' problem with medleys?
A medley of Christmas songs to go to a good cause is a little different than a medley of stuff he's actually written.

Yes, I think he has a problem with THOSE, because he's said so in the past.  He would rather play complete songs.  Notice they haven't really performed medleys live since MP left, who likes medleys and used to craft the setlists.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Buddyhunter1 on September 07, 2021, 09:03:44 AM
:wow:

They will never play S2N live because they'd have to pay Owen Wilson royalties every time they perform it
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Lonk on September 07, 2021, 12:40:06 PM
:wow:

They will never play S2N live because they'd have to pay Owen Wilson royalties every time they perform it

I still look forward to the "WOW" every time I listen to this song. It's just so perfect. I would love to see the song live and have JM say it  :laugh:
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Lonk on March 14, 2022, 10:49:52 AM
So now that the first part of this tour is coming to an end, I was thinking about this thread and while I was hoping they will bring out The Glass Prison or Octavarium, (both have not been played since 2006) I am starting to give up hope they'll ever play these two tracks again.

Of course, with DT everything is on the table, so there is always a change.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: gzarruk on March 14, 2022, 11:12:55 AM
I'm starting to think they've forgotten about Surrender to Reason :-\
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Trav86 on March 14, 2022, 11:17:23 AM
I think the least likely songs will be anything off of WDADU, besides A Fortune in Lies, Ytse Jam or Afterlife.

Also, any Mangini-era songs that aren’t considered “favorites” probably aren’t getting played. At this point if it’s not new, and never been played, highly unlikely that it will. 

Anything else is probably still fair game.  And I’m 100% sure that I can be 100% wrong about all of this.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Kram on March 14, 2022, 01:07:02 PM
So now that the first part of this tour is coming to an end, I was thinking about this thread and while I was hoping they will bring out The Glass Prison or Octavarium, (both have not been played since 2006) I am starting to give up hope they'll ever play these two tracks again.

Of course, with DT everything is on the table, so there is always a change.
I think 100% chance Octavarium will be played again and will be played soon (anniversary coming up).  Not sure about The Glass Prison, but hopefully it returns as well.  My biggest wish list songs right now are Octavarium, Voices and anything from the first disc of 6DOIT.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: 425 on March 14, 2022, 02:19:18 PM
So now that the first part of this tour is coming to an end, I was thinking about this thread and while I was hoping they will bring out The Glass Prison or Octavarium, (both have not been played since 2006) I am starting to give up hope they'll ever play these two tracks again.

Of course, with DT everything is on the table, so there is always a change.
I think 100% chance Octavarium will be played again and will be played soon (anniversary coming up).  Not sure about The Glass Prison, but hopefully it returns as well.  My biggest wish list songs right now are Octavarium, Voices and anything from the first disc of 6DOIT.

I agree with this, and I think the present tour actually makes it even more likely that Octavarium will return, because they've shown their willingness to bring out older long songs—TCOT and TMOLS—even when they already have a long song on the album they're supporting.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: pg1067 on March 14, 2022, 03:23:51 PM
I think 100% chance Octavarium will be played again and will be played soon (anniversary coming up).  Not sure about The Glass Prison, but hopefully it returns as well.  My biggest wish list songs right now are Octavarium, Voices and anything from the first disc of 6DOIT.

I agree re 8VM.

As far as a wish list, mine is really short.

- Anna Lee:  This is relatively low on the list, but it'd be cool to see.
- SDOIT:  I've seen ATC, SS, ATCR and LT/GF.  I'd love to see the whole thing.
- Vacant:  Like Anna Lee, it's low priority, but it'd be cool.
- Wither:  My second favorite song on BC&SL, and I'm really surprised it hasn't been played more.
- S2N:  My #2 song on DOT.
- Transcending Time:  Thus far my favorite on View.

Of course, there are songs -- like 8VM -- that I've seen before and would like to see again.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Weymolith on March 14, 2022, 03:51:54 PM
I hate to say it, but I don't think 8V will be played live again because of the extent of the equipment JR requires. Now, I could see him programming his Nautilus to have the correct sounds.. But I see it being highly unlikely.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Kram on March 14, 2022, 04:23:04 PM
So now that the first part of this tour is coming to an end, I was thinking about this thread and while I was hoping they will bring out The Glass Prison or Octavarium, (both have not been played since 2006) I am starting to give up hope they'll ever play these two tracks again.

Of course, with DT everything is on the table, so there is always a change.
I think 100% chance Octavarium will be played again and will be played soon (anniversary coming up).  Not sure about The Glass Prison, but hopefully it returns as well.  My biggest wish list songs right now are Octavarium, Voices and anything from the first disc of 6DOIT.

I agree with this, and I think the present tour actually makes it even more likely that Octavarium will return, because they've shown their willingness to bring out older long songs—TCOT and TMOLS—even when they already have a long song on the album they're supporting.
Exactly.  They have to know that Octavarium is absolutely one of their most popular songs ever and many hardcore fans (myself included) consider it their crowning achievement.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Kram on March 14, 2022, 04:24:45 PM
I hate to say it, but I don't think 8V will be played live again because of the extent of the equipment JR requires. Now, I could see him programming his Nautilus to have the correct sounds.. But I see it being highly unlikely.
Nah - with modern technology, and his incredible talent, dude can play it on his iPad no problem LOL
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: gzarruk on March 14, 2022, 04:28:32 PM
If/when they play OVM again, I hope they add Surrender to Reason and Solitary Shell since they all use the 12 string guitar anyway. Heaven's Cove wouldn't be a bad bonus either :tup
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Trav86 on March 14, 2022, 04:56:25 PM
I hate to say it, but I don't think 8V will be played live again because of the extent of the equipment JR requires. Now, I could see him programming his Nautilus to have the correct sounds.. But I see it being highly unlikely.

He could just replicate the lap steel with his iPad. And he already does for the continuum parts.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: pg1067 on March 14, 2022, 05:32:03 PM
I hate to say it, but I don't think 8V will be played live again because of the extent of the equipment JR requires. Now, I could see him programming his Nautilus to have the correct sounds.. But I see it being highly unlikely.

I don't see this being an issue.  If he doesn't want to bring the steel guitar and Continuum (which I don't see why he wouldn't because it's hardly extensive), he could play those parts on his iPad or normal keyboard.  Same goes for the big Moog synth setup.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 15, 2022, 06:49:50 AM
I hate to say it, but I don't think 8V will be played live again because of the extent of the equipment JR requires. Now, I could see him programming his Nautilus to have the correct sounds.. But I see it being highly unlikely.
I agree.  I think if they were ever going to do it again, they would have done it by now.

And yeah, most of the sounds could be synthesized without all of that gear, but that would be defeating part of the point of the song.  I could be wrong, but I don't see it happening.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Dream Team on March 15, 2022, 07:47:42 AM
I hate to say it, but I don't think 8V will be played live again because of the extent of the equipment JR requires. Now, I could see him programming his Nautilus to have the correct sounds.. But I see it being highly unlikely.
I agree.  I think if they were ever going to do it again, they would have done it by now.

And yeah, most of the sounds could be synthesized without all of that gear, but that would be defeating part of the point of the song.  I could be wrong, but I don't see it happening.

Well if this is coming from Weymolith than I believe it. There are obviously financial issues (is Mangini setting up his own kit now?) and anything to save money will probably be prioritized going forward.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 15, 2022, 08:24:24 AM
I doubt Mangini is setting up his own drums.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Deadeye21 on March 15, 2022, 08:50:41 AM
I didn’t think the more minimalistic design was a financial measure, but more based on damage control and prevention in case someone in the crew caught COVID. Keep the techs as few as possible and there’s hopefully less likelihood for something to go wrong. That’s what I took it to be anyway.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: crystalstars17 on March 15, 2022, 09:13:48 AM
I hate to say it, but I don't think 8V will be played live again because of the extent of the equipment JR requires. Now, I could see him programming his Nautilus to have the correct sounds.. But I see it being highly unlikely.
Nah - with modern technology, and his incredible talent, dude can play it on his iPad no problem LOL

Yes! And I hope he does. The moment I heard this song is literally the moment I became a fan.  :heart
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: pg1067 on March 15, 2022, 09:22:08 AM
I'm really struggling to understand how bringing a steel guitar and/or a Continuum would be overly burdensome -- especially when Jordan has one of the most streamlined keyboard rigs ever -- and the big synth wasn't used on the 8VM tour anyway (at least not on all dates).  I also don't understand how doing the intro on a keyboard/iPad would defeat the purpose of the song.  And, AFAIC, they'd be fine skipping the intro altogether or just play a recording.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: crystalstars17 on March 15, 2022, 09:27:41 AM
And, AFAIC, they'd be fine skipping the intro altogether or just play a recording.

No! That intro is one of my sacred DT moments in all of their music (see above). I would be heartbroken if they skipped it, that's like bucket list status to hear it live.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Kram on March 15, 2022, 10:54:27 AM
I'm really struggling to understand how bringing a steel guitar and/or a Continuum would be overly burdensome -- especially when Jordan has one of the most streamlined keyboard rigs ever -- and the big synth wasn't used on the 8VM tour anyway (at least not on all dates).  I also don't understand how doing the intro on a keyboard/iPad would defeat the purpose of the song.  And, AFAIC, they'd be fine skipping the intro altogether or just play a recording.
You're 100% right on all point PG.  They will play it again - take it to the bank!!
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Chino on March 15, 2022, 11:35:33 AM
I'm really struggling to understand how bringing a steel guitar and/or a Continuum would be overly burdensome -- especially when Jordan has one of the most streamlined keyboard rigs ever -- and the big synth wasn't used on the 8VM tour anyway (at least not on all dates).  I also don't understand how doing the intro on a keyboard/iPad would defeat the purpose of the song.  And, AFAIC, they'd be fine skipping the intro altogether or just play a recording.
You're 100% right on all point PG.  They will play it again - take it to the bank!!

Just replace the keytar with a fingerboardtar and BOOM, problem solved.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: SeRoX on March 15, 2022, 11:47:12 AM
The Killing Hand.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 15, 2022, 11:55:38 AM
I'm really struggling to understand how bringing a steel guitar and/or a Continuum would be overly burdensome -- especially when Jordan has one of the most streamlined keyboard rigs ever -- and the big synth wasn't used on the 8VM tour anyway (at least not on all dates).  I also don't understand how doing the intro on a keyboard/iPad would defeat the purpose of the song.  And, AFAIC, they'd be fine skipping the intro altogether or just play a recording.
I don't think the steel guitar or Continuum would be overly burdensome, but the big synth rig may be.  And that thing was used on the entire 8VM tour, unless there were stops where it may have been prohibitive to take it (like Asia or something).  But it was definitely a mainstay for that tour.

I don't know, it seems like the rig and the song go together.  The song is, in many ways, a salute to the analog prog forebears, and that was one reason JR used that rig in composing the song.  Look, he could do ANYTHING if he wanted to, but it's 2022 and the song hasn't been performed (other than the last section in a medley) since 2006, so they have had plenty of time to do it if they wanted to.  That's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: bosk1 on March 15, 2022, 02:56:56 PM
I disagree about "the rig and the song go together."  I'm not sure whether Jordan had that rig for the entire U.S. run, but he definitely did not on other legs of the tour where they played Octavarium.  I'm watching the Santiago DVD right now, and he doesn't have it.  While I think he did want to make a point of having that analog sound as much as possible on the tour, as far as I know, Jordan has never been a "purist" in the sense of feeling the "NEED" to have particular gear if something else can emulate the sound he is looking for, and he is always playing around with and helping develop new tech to do that. 

As for the other stuff, like you said, it isn't that hard to pack a continuum and lap steel.  But I don't think he would bother, honestly.  The continuum is pretty much obsolete now that Jordan has used a few different apps with touchscreens to get the same effect.  And as for the lap steel, I wouldn't be surprised if he choose to emulate that on the iPad as well, given that he has done so with string sections, and even a cello solo, and other specific instruments.  Convincingly emulating a lap steel would be child's play for him now.

At the end of the day, I have no idea whether the band feels there is some impediment to playing the song.  But I highly doubt that Jordan's gear is a factor.  They've played it without all the gear several times before, and they could easily do it again.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: gzarruk on March 15, 2022, 03:12:52 PM
Completely agree with Bosk's post. And just to add something, Jordan did use a Continuum mini last tour for ANTR, but he's just using his ipad blu now for the continuum part on BITS. No need to bring the whole other stuff anymore.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: pg1067 on March 15, 2022, 03:19:00 PM
At the end of the day, I have no idea whether the band feels there is some impediment to playing the song.  But I highly doubt that Jordan's gear is a factor.  They've played it without all the gear several times before, and they could easily do it again.

Yup.   :tup
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: bosk1 on March 15, 2022, 03:37:57 PM
Brief tangent, since Hef made me pull out the Santiago DVD, which I haven't watched in ages:

1.  James sounds incredible.  And I'm surprised that I never made this connection before, but he is kinda the John Sykes of vocals.  Sykes' vibrato is so extreme at times that I don't know how he doesn't break more strings live, bending them into the next zip code and back.  You either like that style or you don't, but it is definitely kind of his signature.  James kind of does the same thing when he applies vibrato.  When he starts "bending" notes, he goes right past where most singers would go, and just his this REALLY wide range that makes it sound pretty extreme.

2.  For the most part, heck of a set list.  Just looking at it, it doesn't give me the chills that the Score setlist does, as that one was TRULY special.  But NOT having the entire Six Degrees in the set gave them a lot of freedom to put in other songs that, as far as replay value, probably give this one an edge over Score now that we are not too far from 20 years down the road. 

3.  About halfway through Pull Me Under, I was thinking "I had forgotten how good this is, but this may just be THE definitive live version of the song."  ...and then they got to the Metropolis instrumental jam that they threw into the middle of it.  And I can't decide whether I love that or am offput by it.  Maybe both at the same time?
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: TAC on March 15, 2022, 03:43:44 PM
That is a GREAT DVD!
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: svisser on March 15, 2022, 05:21:43 PM
The obvious, even though it sparks the whole '"is it an epic" debate, is SDOIT. I doubt they will ever play the whole thing live again.

I hope to hear Octavarium live again. Honestly, if they did that album as a whole on the 25th anniversary tour, that would be amazing. I feel like it was a pretty iconic point in the bands career. Both for the album and Score.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Dream Team on March 15, 2022, 05:52:36 PM
That is a GREAT DVD!

Absolutely! We have been blessed with some GREAT boots. In addition to Santiago, I love Bucharest and WDADRe-Unite.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Weymolith on March 15, 2022, 06:07:20 PM
I doubt Mangini is setting up his own drums.

Eric Disrude is still Mangini's tech. He posted a picture of MM, MP, and himself together from the NY show.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Dream Team on March 15, 2022, 06:09:09 PM
I doubt Mangini is setting up his own drums.

Eric Disrude is still Mangini's tech. He posted a picture of MM, MP, and himself together from the NY show.

It was a joke. Crazy seeing a drum kit that small at a DT show! Mangini toured with 4 bass drums for ADTOE. 1 now.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: 425 on March 15, 2022, 10:53:24 PM
That is a GREAT DVD!

Absolutely! We have been blessed with some GREAT boots. In addition to Santiago, I love Bucharest and WDADRe-Unite.

Having gotten into the band after MP left, I never had the chance to get any of these three (I do have the WDADR CD). I really hope we see these come out in the LNF series. I’m a little worried since we have not seen a LNF video release yet.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: jimgolf on March 16, 2022, 03:14:00 AM
My favorite Dream Theater Live Show is the Bucharest DVD from 2002. The video quality wasnt the greatest, but the setlist and performance was amazing. Now ive lost the DVD and I cant find any more versions of it unless I watch videos on youtube. I hope they rerelease it with the LNF archives.  :angel: :angel: :angel:
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: cramx3 on March 16, 2022, 01:09:45 PM
Ah an old thread resurfacing...

after this tour I'd say TMOS is not coming back
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: SeRoX on March 16, 2022, 01:16:19 PM
after this tour I'd say TMOS is not coming back

Hopefully. This song is a joy killer.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: cygnusaz on March 16, 2022, 01:29:58 PM
One thing about DT is you never know what song will be brought back.  I never would've predicted some on this tour.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: TheBarstoolWarrior on March 16, 2022, 05:19:22 PM
I don't know why but I feel like Outcry, False Awakening Suite, Rite of Passage and Build Me Up Break Me Down are all candidates. Also, I don't think Never Enough is going to be thrown into a set list any time soon  :lol
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: EPIC Outro on March 16, 2022, 05:51:41 PM

Outcry would be pretty timely right now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it made a second leg appearance on the current tour.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: TAC on March 16, 2022, 05:59:19 PM

Outcry would be pretty timely right now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it made a second leg appearance on the current tour.

Yes!
That would make a great replacement for BITS.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: cramx3 on March 16, 2022, 09:14:42 PM

Outcry would be pretty timely right now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it made a second leg appearance on the current tour.

Yes!
That would make a great replacement for BITS.

Agreed
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: PetFish on March 16, 2022, 09:39:38 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

I really miss Lines in the Sand, Scarred, and Voices.


I hope they do new/updated live versions of (before they retire):

Eve
Wither
Blind Faith
Take Away My Pain (either version)
To Live Forever
This is the Life
Hell's Kitchen
Prophets of War
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: pg1067 on March 17, 2022, 09:37:02 AM
Also, I don't think Never Enough is going to be thrown into a set list any time soon  :lol

I certainly hope not!  Along with HYF.


I hope they do new/updated live versions of (before they retire):

Eve
Wither
Blind Faith
Take Away My Pain (either version)
To Live Forever
This is the Life
Hell's Kitchen
Prophets of War

Hope springs eternal, but I'd be shocked if they ever played Eve again, and they did TLF and HK just a couple years ago.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: gzarruk on March 17, 2022, 09:46:02 AM
I hope they do new/updated live versions of (before they retire):

Eve
Wither
Blind Faith
Take Away My Pain (either version)
To Live Forever
This is the Life
Hell's Kitchen
Prophets of War

Hope springs eternal, but I'd be shocked if they ever played Eve again, and they did TLF and HK just a couple years ago.

Yes, from that list they've already played Wither, TLF, TITL and HK live with MM. And they don't seem to have any interest in performing any of the others anytime soon. Even with IWBY, which MM has said in a couple interviews that he'd love to have in the setlist, they still haven't brought it back.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Setlist Scotty on March 17, 2022, 10:44:57 AM
Also, I don't think Never Enough is going to be thrown into a set list any time soon  :lol
I certainly hope not!  Along with HYF.
I know you hate it, but why would ever think would consider playing Hold Your Fire?   :lol
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 17, 2022, 11:21:44 AM
Hope springs eternal, but I'd be shocked if they ever played Eve again
I once asked JP specifically about Eve, and he said almost certainly not. 

I showed him my sad face.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: pg1067 on March 17, 2022, 11:54:33 AM
Also, I don't think Never Enough is going to be thrown into a set list any time soon  :lol
I certainly hope not!  Along with HYF.
I know you hate it, but why would ever think would consider playing Hold Your Fire?   :lol

Well played...and I'd prefer Hold Your Fire to what I actually meant (especially if JM does the Aimee Mann vocal)!   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: crystalstars17 on March 17, 2022, 12:04:27 PM

Outcry would be pretty timely right now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it made a second leg appearance on the current tour.

YES !!!!!
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Skeever on March 17, 2022, 12:49:47 PM
I think almost everything they've ever done is still on the table, with a few exceptions:

- ITPOE - too long for something that's not a fan favorite. They could just play Part 1 or 2 though.
- Illumination  Theory - similar logic as the above; I just don't see them giving that much of the setlist to something that doesn't really hit the spot for most fans as much as other epic songs in the back catalog.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Kram on March 17, 2022, 01:34:55 PM
I think almost everything they've ever done is still on the table, with a few exceptions:

- ITPOE - too long for something that's not a fan favorite. They could just play Part 1 or 2 though.
- Illumination  Theory - similar logic as the above; I just don't see them giving that much of the setlist to something that doesn't really hit the spot for most fans as much as other epic songs in the back catalog.
I think the full 6DOIT might be off the table simply for it's length.  I hope I'm wrong about that though.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 17, 2022, 02:03:06 PM
I think almost everything they've ever done is still on the table, with a few exceptions:

- ITPOE - too long for something that's not a fan favorite. They could just play Part 1 or 2 though.
- Illumination  Theory - similar logic as the above; I just don't see them giving that much of the setlist to something that doesn't really hit the spot for most fans as much as other epic songs in the back catalog.
I don't believe either of these are off the table, mainly because I don't believe they are disliked as much as you apparently do.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: MrMike on March 17, 2022, 03:29:13 PM
Illumination Theory is one of my very favorites, but I feel that if they tried to play it without an orchestra, it would lose some of its magic.  So I'd kinda rather they didn't.

I've been wondering why they didn't film one of The Astonishing shows and if they would still consider doing that at some point in the future (like a one-off special occasion).  Seems like that's the only tour that's not officially documented.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: TheBarstoolWarrior on March 17, 2022, 04:49:49 PM
The only reason IT wouldn't be played soon is because it consumes a lot of the set list AND was played not too long ago. It's a very well liked song and for good reason.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: gzarruk on March 17, 2022, 04:58:53 PM
I've been wondering why they didn't film one of The Astonishing shows and if they would still consider doing that at some point in the future (like a one-off special occasion).  Seems like that's the only tour that's not officially documented.

They might release TA live in audio form for the LNFA, but I'm not too optimistic about them playing the whole thing ever again.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: bosk1 on March 17, 2022, 05:09:36 PM
I hope they do new/updated live versions of (before they retire):

Eve
Wither
Blind Faith
Take Away My Pain (either version)
To Live Forever
This is the Life
Hell's Kitchen
Prophets of War

If that was a real set list, I honestly would tell JP to his face, "I know we're friends and all, but I'm not going to bother coming to that show."  Aside from Take Away My Pain, you caught a significant portion of my bottom 10 with that list.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Trav86 on March 17, 2022, 07:41:52 PM
I hope they do new/updated live versions of (before they retire):

Eve
Wither
Blind Faith
Take Away My Pain (either version)
To Live Forever
This is the Life
Hell's Kitchen
Prophets of War

If that was a real set list, I honestly would tell JP to his face, "I know we're friends and all, but I'm not going to bother coming to that show."  Aside from Take Away My Pain, you caught a significant portion of my bottom 10 with that list.

Can he fire you?  :lol
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Trav86 on March 17, 2022, 07:44:05 PM
I think almost everything they've ever done is still on the table, with a few exceptions:

- ITPOE - too long for something that's not a fan favorite. They could just play Part 1 or 2 though.

I agree that I don’t think they’ll play it again. However, outside of this forum, that song is pretty popular.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: gzarruk on March 17, 2022, 08:35:49 PM
Listened to Raw Dog today after a long time and enjoyed it a lot. Makes me wish to see it find its way to the setlist sometime, but that's very unlikely.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: TAC on March 17, 2022, 08:37:05 PM
Listened to Raw Dog today after a long time and enjoyed it a lot. Makes me wish to see it find its way to the setlist sometime, but that's very unlikely.

Raw Dog gets a bad rap.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: bosk1 on March 17, 2022, 08:41:11 PM
I can't say I ever want to see it played (or that I think it will be), but it's not bad.  When it was discussed recently in another thread, it had been so long since the handful of times I listened to it that I couldn't remember how it went at all, so I had to go back and listen.  Not bad at all. 
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Setlist Scotty on March 18, 2022, 02:51:02 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people would love it if they heard it live. I remember years ago how the majority of the people on this forum LOVED to bag on The Shattered Fortress, saying it was garbage. But then the band played it on the Along for the Ride tour, and suddenly it seemed to click for almost everyone, and now you rarely see any negative comments about it here. So I'd expect something similar would happen if they performed Raw Dog live.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 18, 2022, 06:46:15 AM
Illumination Theory is one of my very favorites, but I feel that if they tried to play it without an orchestra, it would lose some of its magic.  So I'd kinda rather they didn't.
It lost a lot of magic on that tour then, because they played it without an orchestra every single night except the one they filmed.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: SeRoX on March 18, 2022, 07:23:46 AM
Illumination Theory is one of my very favorites, but I feel that if they tried to play it without an orchestra, it would lose some of its magic.  So I'd kinda rather they didn't.
It lost a lot of magic on that tour then, because they played it without an orchestra every single night except the one they filmed.

And it didn't bother. It sounds nice without it.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Skeever on March 18, 2022, 09:03:13 AM
I've been meaning to give all of Self-Titled a reevaluation. I just can't stand the production of that album, and so I don't listen very much. Maybe IT is better than I remembered...
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: pg1067 on March 18, 2022, 09:52:39 AM
I still can't understand what so many people don't seem to like about the production of DT12, and it remains my favorite MM-era album.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Setlist Scotty on March 18, 2022, 11:12:22 AM
I still can't understand what so many people don't seem to like about the production of DT12, and it remains my favorite MM-era album.
I could be wrong, but I believe most of it stems from MM's drums sounding so sterile, like drum samples (not unlike IaW) instead of real drums.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Max Kuehnau on March 18, 2022, 11:57:42 AM
I still can't understand what so many people don't seem to like about the production of DT12, and it remains my favorite MM-era album.
I could be wrong, but I believe most of it stems from MM's drums sounding so sterile, like drum samples (not unlike IaW) instead of real drums.
this is what you could read about that "issue" (which it isn't to me, hence the ""), except his parts weren't programmed (neither for The Astonishing btw), and yes, DT12 is among my alltime three.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: hunnus2000 on March 18, 2022, 12:26:56 PM
I still can't understand what so many people don't seem to like about the production of DT12, and it remains my favorite MM-era album.
I could be wrong, but I believe most of it stems from MM's drums sounding so sterile, like drum samples (not unlike IaW) instead of real drums.
this is what you could read about that "issue" (which it isn't to me, hence the ""), except his parts weren't programmed (neither for The Astonishing btw), and yes, DT12 is among my alltime three.

I guess my question would be, what drum samples on D12? I thought the only issue with drums is the tuning down of the snare which in no way deters from my enjoyment of the album.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Setlist Scotty on March 18, 2022, 12:47:09 PM
I still can't understand what so many people don't seem to like about the production of DT12, and it remains my favorite MM-era album.
I could be wrong, but I believe most of it stems from MM's drums sounding so sterile, like drum samples (not unlike IaW) instead of real drums.
this is what you could read about that "issue" (which it isn't to me, hence the ""), except his parts weren't programmed (neither for The Astonishing btw), and yes, DT12 is among my alltime three.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying they're samples like on IaW, but the way they were mixed, they sound much more sterile and therefore like drum samples, similar to IaW, although IaW did have actual drum samples used.  ;)
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: Dream Team on March 18, 2022, 01:38:51 PM
Yeah I think it’s mostly the snare. But the chocolate cake guitar tone is great, Myung is very audible, and everyone else is dialed in. Great song-writing on that album without a ton of wank. It’s come to be a top 5 album for me.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: nick_z on March 18, 2022, 03:50:51 PM
I still can't understand what so many people don't seem to like about the production of DT12, and it remains my favorite MM-era album.

Agreed, it's my favorite MM-era album too. I guess the drum sound is not exactly my favorite, but honestly it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the album.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: KevShmev on March 20, 2022, 12:09:57 PM
I still can't understand what so many people don't seem to like about the production of DT12, and it remains my favorite MM-era album.

Agreed, it's my favorite MM-era album too. I guess the drum sound is not exactly my favorite, but honestly it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the album.

It does for me if I listen to it one song after another.  I enjoy most of the songs a lot (except for Along for the Ride, which I don't find bad, but pretty average) if they come up on shuffle, but too many songs from the album in a row is tough to take, with Mangini's drums sounding so clanky and like something I would have heard in an old Nintendo game.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: evilasiojr on March 20, 2022, 08:54:12 PM
I still can't understand what so many people don't seem to like about the production of DT12, and it remains my favorite MM-era album.

Agreed, it's my favorite MM-era album too. I guess the drum sound is not exactly my favorite, but honestly it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the album.

It does for me if I listen to it one song after another.  I enjoy most of the songs a lot (except for Along for the Ride, which I don't find bad, but pretty average) if they come up on shuffle, but too many songs from the album in a row is tough to take, with Mangini's drums sounding so clanky and like something I would have heard in an old Nintendo game.

Since you mentioned the shuffle situation, that's a good example on how to feel the difference in the drum sound. If I'm listening DT on shuffle and a song from this album comes up, the difference in the drum mix from almost any other DT album is HUGE for me, in a bad way. Actually in such a bad way it makes me want to skip the song, even if I like it, which is the case for some of them.

Now, if I start listening the album from the top, with False Awakening Suit, it seems that I don't feel it that much. Almost like this intro also works as a way to digest the drum mix a little better. Not that it becomes good, it just doesn't bother as much for me. But this an album which I listen very little, although some of the songs are truly great like The Bigger Picture (one of my top 10 DT songs), The Enemy Inside and Surrender to Reason (I hope they play this song live one day, such a cool little song).
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: EPIC Outro on March 21, 2022, 07:00:03 AM

I must be the equivalent of color blind when it comes to drum sound. Aside from the drums being louder or quieter on some DT albums, I have a hard time hearing a difference in drum sound quality. But I do remember immediately enjoying the mix of DT12 more than ADTOE when I first listened to it.
Title: Re: Songs that might never be played live again
Post by: pg1067 on March 21, 2022, 09:35:49 AM

I must be the equivalent of color blind when it comes to drum sound. Aside from the drums being louder or quieter on some DT albums, I have a hard time hearing a difference in drum sound quality.

Same...or maybe it's just that I have a wide range of what sounds acceptable to my ears.  Even on Rush albums, with the exception of the electronic percussion, I couldn't tell you anything about the drum sound from one album to the next or between a Rush album and a Triumph album and a Scorpions album, etc.