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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Orbert on February 17, 2020, 07:47:02 PM
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Me: So this thing you wanted to go to, it's at 4:00, right? What time do we need to leave?
She: Don't forget, we have to stop and <something boring and unimportant> first.
Me: Okay, so how long will that take? What time do we need to leave?
She: I told you, it will take a little longer. We haven't <done the boring and unimportant thing> in a while.
Me: Right. So what time do we need to leave?
She: I've already told you. We have to leave early.
Me: Earlier than what? What time do we need to leave?
She: We have to leave earlier because we have to stop and <do boring shit> on the way! What don't you understand about that?!
Me: I understand that we have to stop on the way. I don't know where we're going, or how long it will take to get there, so I'm asking you. What time do we need to leave?
She: How should I know? You're going to be driving.
Me: Right. So what time do we need to leave?
She: (actually screams out loud in frustration) I told you! We have to be there by 4:00! We have to stop and <blah> on the way there! God!! We have to leave in time to do that and get there by 4:00, obviously!
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Fuck me running. No, seriously, take a fucking Louisville Slugger and shove it up my ass, I'm sure it would be less painful. Is it too hard to just fucking answer a question? You want to go somewhere, cool. Presumably you've figured out the logistics, because I haven't, because I'm not the one who wants to go. Sure, I'll drive. That's not the point. It's your project. Put some fucking thought into it.
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Right. I would simply ask my wife, "What time would you like me to report to the car?" :lol
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I say just throw out a random time and then adjust based on her reaction.
"Cool, I'll be ready to leave by 3"
"3?!?!??"
"....2?"
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Either that or I would just have my shoes on and wait for her to make the call.
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Better idea. Get ready quickly, tell her you'll be in the car. Just go to the car, listen to music, relax til she gets there.
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Better idea. Get ready quickly, tell her you'll be in the car. Just go to the car, listen to music, relax til she gets there.
Brilliant. Take a cup of coffee with you Bob, you might be there a while.
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Thank god I’ve successfully avoided marriage just like women successfully avoid answering any direct question. :lol
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This hurts like a dagger in my side to the core.
Twist that knife.
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You want to go somewhere, cool. Presumably you've figured out the logistics, because I haven't, because I'm not the one who wants to go.
Obvious spoiler: she didn't.
Point this out to her.
"So, you want to go there, but you didn't bother to check the time it would take nor to ask me to please waste what would amount to 30 seconds to check it out on Google Maps?"
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That won’t end well.
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I don't understand why time is so difficult for some people. I'm more punctual than most, almost to the point where it's annoying, but so many of my friends put in zero effort when it comes to being somewhere when we need to. It drives me nuts.
The worst is when I'm expecting people over. I like to do a deeper clean depending on who's coming. I hate when we plan on a time and they show up an hour+ late. I could have cleaned at a calmer pace and/or not rushed anything revolving around the food. If you want to show up at 7 instead of 6, just tell me.
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Wow, Orbert, I've been on the edge of that conversation but never tipped over into the abyss. So far, Mrs. P has been willing to logic out with me how long it will take to drive to said event, and then work back from arrival time. At least if it's her event. If it's an event that I planned or is with my family or friends, I better damn well know when she needs to be ready to leave. :)
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Obviously "boring and unimportant shit" is sex, right? :)
No, seriously, it depends on the "boring unimportant shit". I would ask direct questions. Where is the "thing"? Where is the "boring unimportant shit"? Then pick a time and tell her.
I have this problem with my wife, too. I love her, but she gets into these what I call mental ruts on occasion. I'll be asking questions and she'll be sort of stuck in her answer, and I have to sort of reframe the conversation. That, and pronouns; she'll be all like "So, I was talking to her and she said he had a <thing> but he wasn't sure that they were going to respond." And I'm like "Uh, slow down and insert some proper names here..."
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Yeah sometimes it's like playing Mad Libs!
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Wow, Orbert, I've been on the edge of that conversation but never tipped over into the abyss. So far, Mrs. P has been willing to logic out with me how long it will take to drive to said event, and then work back from arrival time. At least if it's her event. If it's an event that I planned or is with my family or friends, I better damn well know when she needs to be ready to leave. :)
That's what it eventually got to. Eventually.
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Me: Where exactly is this thing we're going to?
She: It's right by the Woodman's on Half Day Road.
Me: Okay, so 15 minutes away?
She: You said 20.
Me: I did? When?
She: Last time we went to Woodman's, you said to allow 20 minutes. But it only took us 15.
Me: Okay, so 15 minutes.
She: Yes.
Me: But we have to stop at <boring place> first, right?
She: I told you that already!
Me: Right. Sorry. So... how long do you think that will take?
She: I don't know... maybe ten minutes.
Me: So if we leave by 3:30, we should have time to stop and still get there on time?
She: Maybe 3:20? Just in case.
Me: Okay. I will be ready to leave by 3:20.
Epilogue: She was ready about 3:30, because she remembered me saying 3:30, and forgot that she'd suggested 3:20.
You want to go somewhere, cool. Presumably you've figured out the logistics, because I haven't, because I'm not the one who wants to go.
Obvious spoiler: she didn't.
Point this out to her.
That won’t end well.
Correct. This is from multiple past instances, which I have learned to (sometimes) avoid. We have to work through the logistics every time, one step at a time. This is something that most adults are capable of doing, but somehow, this is my "job", even if I have none of the variables and have to extract every one of them from her, one at a time.
But... at least I know this, and ask a few hours in advance, in case the actual process takes a few hours.
I honestly don't remember what the boring thing was now. We had to stop at some store for something, and I just threw it in there for flavor, as it was another variable, and apparently two variables is one too many for some people.
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I don't understand why time is so difficult for some people. I'm more punctual than most, almost to the point where it's annoying, but so many of my friends put in zero effort when it comes to being somewhere when we need to. It drives me nuts.
The worst is when I'm expecting people over. I like to do a deeper clean depending on who's coming. I hate when we plan on a time and they show up an hour+ late. I could have cleaned at a calmer pace and/or not rushed anything revolving around the food. If you want to show up at 7 instead of 6, just tell me.
I have a lot of friends who are like this. Most people have some kinda time problem. Honestly I wish that was my time problem, and not "lets larger units of time pass by untll it's three years later and I have done nothing with my life but I sure made all my appointments though!"
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One friend who I recently stopped hanging out with (finally) is one of those guys. "Hey man, I'm free around 6:30 for like an hour if you want to swing by and chill." Fast forward to 7:30 "omw" - then he's over way past the time I'm comfortable hanging out. Finally got sick of it (among other things).
As for the marriage arguments... so glad I'm not married :lol
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2 things. I'll drive and that saves you the trouble of having to figure out the logistics. TAC gets it. "What time should I be in the car?"
Second, when my spouse thinks something I want or need to do is "unimportant and boring" and their attitude conveys this, then I'm less likely to care about answering their questions the way they'd prefer.
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Orbert, I feel for you man. Although my wife and I don't ever have situations like this, my two teenage daughters do.
When these situations arise in my home, I try the supportive husband, doting father route: I leave the room muttering with my hands in the air and let my wife handle it from there :)
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Holy Hannah, Orbert, I'm getting frustrated just reading this. :lol
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2 things. I'll drive and that saves you the trouble of having to figure out the logistics. TAC gets it. "What time should I be in the car?"
But that's exactly what I'm asking. "What time do we need to leave?" = "What time should I be in the car?"
Second, when my spouse thinks something I want or need to do is "unimportant and boring" and their attitude conveys this, then I'm less likely to care about answering their questions the way they'd prefer.
The stop at the store was unimportant to the story, so I parenthesized it. I didn't see the point of elaborating on it, just as I avoided specifying what we were doing in the first place. I didn't think it was relevant to the main point, which is that only one of us knows where we have to be, and how long it will take to get there, including all other necessary stops, and that person was not me, yet somehow I was tasked with figuring it out. Oddly enough, the easiest way to "figure it out" is to ask the person who actually knows. And that person seemed determined not to share the information.
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Gotcha. I thought the 'unimportant and boring thing' was something she wanted to do but you didn't. I was laughing at that because married people (outside of the honeymoon phase) tend to understand that that's what marriage actually is 98% of the time and I would've bet cold hard cash, she could rattle off a list of things that fell into that category she'd do for you. :P :P
Seriously though, I don't think this is a man vs. woman issue. I know lots of disorganized people, male and female, who can't manage time or appointments very well. This is their baseline of "normal". Some of these people carry diagnosis of ADD and some have the symptoms but not the diagnosis. Is this the first time you've noticed that she has difficulty with time management or organizational skills? Is it possible she's under an unusual amount of stress which can make anyone distracted enough to be unable to problem solve as well as she normally does? Have you asked her - away from the situation at hand - if she's ok and that you've noticed she's having a hard time with concentration (or stress or brain fog or whatever)? That you are looking for a way to improve your communication with her?
Her answer may surprise you if you approach it from a caring attitude and not a judgmental and WTF? attitude. And no judgment here toward you. My middle name is WTF. :laugh: With me it isn't just an attitude, it's a way of life. And I'm only kidding a tiny bit!
And for the record, it's not an excuse and you can look it up, but hormones especially in relation to pregnancy, postpartum, or perimenopause/menopause can definitely cause brain fog for a whole variety of reasons. Especially if sleep disruption is a factor.
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Pretty sure Orbert isn't pregnant. ;D
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That won’t end well.
No, no it won't :lol
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Seriously though, I don't think this is a man vs. woman issue. I know lots of disorganized people, male and female, who can't manage time or appointments very well.
This. I don’t have this issue with my partner since she usually takes care of all the details when she’s planning something (how to get there, travel time, easiest route, etc) but I do have this problem with people I work with. Every so often I have to drive them somewhere and when I ask about time and where the place is, the usual response I get is “I don’t know, the place is called (random name)”.
I don’t make a huge deal out of it because I just put it on google map and get an estimate of time and distance, but it would be nice for them to have that information ready every so often.
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I guess my frustration was that I was asking a question, and getting a response that provided information, but did not actually answer the question. I hate that. Just answer the fucking question. It's like when you ask a simple Yes or No question, and get an essay for a response that doesn't even answer the question.
Me: Did you pick up milk?
She: I stopped at the store. We needed bread.
Me: So did you pick up milk?
She: I just told you, I stopped at the store!
Me: Right. So did you pick up milk?
She: Why don't you look in the fucking fridge!
Seriously, is it that hard to just say Yes or No?
I'm not going to wait in the car all day, and I have other things to do today, so I would like to know when I have to be ready to go. It's really that simple. Telling me the name of the place we're going doesn't tell me where it is or how long it will take to get there. Telling me that we have to leave a little early because we have another stop to make is only useful once we know the baseline travel time, and "a little early" is still relative.
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I feel your pain en masse. My SON does this. So I have this coming from multiple angles. I start to wonder if people actually speak English.
I don't remember the exact conversation, but I was trying to ask my son where his cell phone was and he gave me about 15 different answers for that exact question without ever telling me where his cell phone was and I was practically screaming at him by the end of it.
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Me: So this thing you wanted to go to, it's at 4:00, right? What time do we need to leave?
She: Don't forget, we have to stop and <something boring and unimportant> first.
Me: Okay, so how long will that take? What time do we need to leave?
She: I told you, it will take a little longer. We haven't <done the boring and unimportant thing> in a while.
Me: Right. So what time do we need to leave?
She: I've already told you. We have to leave early.
Me: Earlier than what? What time do we need to leave?
She: We have to leave earlier because we have to stop and <do boring shit> on the way! What don't you understand about that?!
Me: I understand that we have to stop on the way. I don't know where we're going, or how long it will take to get there, so I'm asking you. What time do we need to leave?
She: How should I know? You're going to be driving.
Me: Right. So what time do we need to leave?
She: (actually screams out loud in frustration) I told you! We have to be there by 4:00! We have to stop and <blah> on the way there! God!! We have to leave in time to do that and get there by 4:00, obviously!
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Fuck me running. No, seriously, take a fucking Louisville Slugger and shove it up my ass, I'm sure it would be less painful. Is it too hard to just fucking answer a question? You want to go somewhere, cool. Presumably you've figured out the logistics, because I haven't, because I'm not the one who wants to go. Sure, I'll drive. That's not the point. It's your project. Put some fucking thought into it.
Sounds about right. In this situation, I've learnt to put a time forward randomly to get a feel if I'm on the case. I would have said "So, what, we'll leave about 2 then is that enough time?" 9 times out of 10 though it would still be wrong and get a smartassed closed response. haha.
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I won't play that game, which someone suggested upthread. "So we should leave around 3:00? 3:30?" Why the fuck should I guess, when the person who wanted to do this in the first place, and therefore had the responsibility to do the legwork involved, could just tell me. And if they want to do this, but don't want to bother figuring out the logistics, then they apparently don't want to do it very badly.
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I have made it a habit if asking "when do we need to leave?" straightaway, and will generally get the appropriate answer.
Of course, having an 8 year old and a 2 year old, we will leave when the kids are damn good and ready and the car is loaded up, so anywhere between 15-30 minutes after we had intended to, depending on how much stuff we have to bring.
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I guess my frustration was that I was asking a question, and getting a response that provided information, but did not actually answer the question. I hate that. Just answer the fucking question. It's like when you ask a simple Yes or No question, and get an essay for a response that doesn't even answer the question.
Me: Did you pick up milk?
She: I stopped at the store. We needed bread.
Me: So did you pick up milk?
She: I just told you, I stopped at the store!
Me: Right. So did you pick up milk?
She: Why don't you look in the fucking fridge!
Seriously, is it that hard to just say Yes or No?
I'm not going to wait in the car all day, and I have other things to do today, so I would like to know when I have to be ready to go. It's really that simple. Telling me the name of the place we're going doesn't tell me where it is or how long it will take to get there. Telling me that we have to leave a little early because we have another stop to make is only useful once we know the baseline travel time, and "a little early" is still relative.
No offense, but this is something different than the time thing if you ask me (how do I know, though, since you are there and I'm not). One of my kids is like this (as is my wife's ex); I don't understand that notion of being difficult for the sake of being difficult. I call it the "reality show mentality". It's not weakness to be hospitable or accommodating (unless, like anything else, it's taken to an extreme). This sort of "default beligerance" that is seemingly becoming so prevalent is as baffling to me as the time thing. My wife's ex: you can ask him his name and he'll have some snotty reason why YOU'RE stupid for asking him. F*** you, bro, the world doesn't revolved around you (Sorry, I got off track there!)
To Orbert, I don't know if I would have said it outloud or not - depends on the rest of the conversation - but I would haev been thinking "of course I could have checked the fridge; that's what roommates do. I actually just wanted to talk with my wife, FFS."
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Her: Did you pickup milk?
Me: Yes
End of conversation, on to the next thing.
(https://external-preview.redd.it/9aaJ2P_y9por16PHyznoIfCtSCL-V7iulYIJXnZwHfs.jpg?auto=webp&s=2c75ea5b5dd3c7c0b639362dbf4f51275ea4d7c7)
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As a single guy, I always leave these threads feeling paranoid about marriage and family. I have two questions:
1. Is it worth it?
2. If so, when is it worth it?
I ask the second question because I think that a lot of people in my age group just think that "It's worth it" and go out and make rash decisions without questioning whether it is worth it.
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I've struggled with the question "Is it worth it?" for years. There are definite plusses and minuses. There's no such thing as a perfect marriage; every single one is a compromise. Therefore the only person who can answer that question is you.
I'm a practical guy. Scientific minded, logical thinking, all those horrible traits that come standard equipment with Asians. If the plusses outweigh the minuses, it's worth it. You try to maximize the ratio by "choosing" someone with whom you are compatible, therefore minimizing the the negatives while hopefully accentuating and taking advantage of the positives. But a marriage is two people, and there will be disagreements. It comes down to how you handle them. Also, unless you're a real prize and literally have multiple babes after you, you don't get to choose, which is why I put that in quotes. You play the game, live your life, and you end up with someone. Again, there are things you can do to possibly improve the odds of ending up with the "right" person, but there are no guarantees. Life is adventure.
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As a single guy, I always leave these threads feeling paranoid about marriage and family. I have two questions:
1. Is it worth it?
2. If so, when is it worth it?
I ask the second question because I think that a lot of people in my age group just think that "It's worth it" and go out and make rash decisions without questioning whether it is worth it.
Orbert has it, I think, 100% correct, but to the point of "I always leave these threads feeling paranoid about marriage and family", it's also relevant to look bigger picture. If "monthly gasoline expenditures" are your only criteria, then owning a car is a shitty idea. Whether you do or not, and if you do, what kind, make, model and year, are all questions only you can answer. For me, I had the best of all worlds of sorts; I went through a divorce when a) I was young enough, b) my kid was old enough, and c) my job was good enough, that I could reasonably see what the landscape might be like if I went at life alone. Wasn't for me. For all the mind games we might be discussing here, we've not at all talked about the 100 things that go on between a husband and wife that DO NOT need to be discussed. My wife can, for example, stop and get food on the way home, and she's got a good idea of what I will likely say "WOW, that was really kind of you to think about me" to. My wife, knows, for example, that I really only have one ritual in the morning - coffee - and there are mornings I come downstairs and the coffee is brewing and I think "she can use all the goddamn pronouns she wants to". My wife also understands why I need to drive an hour with album in hand to see Jon Anderson (who?) in a 500 seat theater, or get up on Sunday morning to call the box office to get my Squeeze ticket upgraded to front row (long story), or rip those Kiss DVDs to my iPod.
Throw in a little nookie every coupl'a weeks that doesn't require a night on the town, a fancy dinner, and agonizing about whether you're going to have to call the next day or whether this is going to mean she's going to be all up in your grill if she sees you with that other woman at the other bar*, and I can tell you, it's not ALL hell on earth.
(*All, of course, meant for humorous effect.)
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I think marriage is a great idea. Thankfully, someone a whole lot wiser than me thought it up.
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Sure marriage can be great and often is great, but we as humans have our faults and sometimes marriage isn't best for everyone or specifically certain couples. I seem to have not be able to make it work myself so I can't say any personal experience from marriage but right now my coworker is going through a nasty divorce (and has been out all week due to moving and lawyers and stuff) so I think Orbert's got it right. Compromises, and not just in the relationship but in finding the right person.
Honestly, this specific scenario isn't something due to marriage either. I've experienced lots of similar just from having gf's or even roommates and it's these things that you adapt and just kind of accept for the relationship or friendship to work.
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The only two upsides of being married for me personally would be splitting the bills/additional income as well as someone either calling 911 and potentially saving me if I had a heart attack or something as opposed to being found on the floor by police on Wednesday because I didn't show up to work Monday which with every passing day is how I fear I will leave this cold and heartless world, frightened and clutching my chest as gravity pulls me to my final resting place on the unmopped wooden dining room floor
yeah
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I'd rather just not get married and enjoy a long term relationship with someone.
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The only two upsides of being married for me personally would be splitting the bills/additional income as well as someone either calling 911 and potentially saving me if I had a heart attack or something as opposed to being found on the floor by police on Wednesday because I didn't show up to work Monday which with every passing day is how I fear I will leave this cold and heartless world, frightened and clutching my chest as gravity pulls me to my final resting place on the unmopped wooden dining room floor
yeah
well until you meet the right woman, maybe you will change your mind.
I definitely had my doubts about ever being married after ending an engagement and still have those doubts but time heals all wounds. Anything is possible. But it still comes down to compromise and that's something I struggle with being a selfish prick most of the time. Anyway... this is now the lonely hearts thread?
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The only two upsides of being married for me personally would be splitting the bills/additional income as well as someone either calling 911 and potentially saving me if I had a heart attack or something as opposed to being found on the floor by police on Wednesday because I didn't show up to work Monday which with every passing day is how I fear I will leave this cold and heartless world, frightened and clutching my chest as gravity pulls me to my final resting place on the unmopped wooden dining room floor
yeah
well until you meet the right woman, maybe you will change your mind.
I definitely had my doubts about ever being married after ending an engagement and still have those doubts but time heals all wounds. Anything is possible. But it still comes down to compromise and that's something I struggle with being a selfish prick most of the time. Anyway... this is now the lonely hearts thread?
I should probably head over to that thread yeah. But there's no way I can see myself ever getting married. Unless I find someone whose idea of a perfect relationship is living in the same place but spending like 90% of the day in separate rooms doing our own things. That would be cool
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You never know although that certainly doesn't sound like any female I know, but I'm sure one does exist with this belief
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You know even thinking about that, that's still some level of commitment
I'll stick with the single life. I like having absolutely zero involvement with another person
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Well, if there was ever proof of how predominantly masculine this place is, here it is...
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I hate to be that guy, but to some degree, age plays a part. I was 32/33 when I got married the first time, and believe me, at 25, the idea of being tied down to the same woman, blah blah blah, was anathema. I didn't see how that made any sense whatsoever.
It is, though, very much a personal thing, and I admire those that avoid it as a conscious decision. To me that's a sign of maturity and awareness.
Although, Katt, there's something very Charles Bukowski about being found lying on your kitchen floor clutching your chest a week and a half later. ;)
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I will add that being single and living alone, the thought of something happening and being found dead a week later is kind of sick and sad and definitely drives me to not want that to be a reality. Like with my body eaten by my cat who hasn't been fed in a week as well.
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Good thing I don't have pets! Only people I'll disappointment are the landlord and my boss! :lol
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But the mice...
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The mice were vanquished some time ago, thankfully. That, and I sealed up every hole in my apartment and body with Wacky Glue.
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They always find a way. Always.
:inevitable:
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:lol :lol
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I think marriage is an increasingly tough choice in this day and age. A 50% success rate are not good odds. And this comes from a man who is happily married.
I would say that you can do a few things to increase your chances. Marry someone you're compatable with. Fire and Ice don't mix well. But it also goes beyond that...
Look for someone who has the same politics as you.
Look for someone who has the same religion as you (or lack thereof).
Look for someone who has the same family outlook as you (agree on kids and parenting).
Look for someone with the same culture/growing up experience as you (not race, I don't think that matters).
Look for someone who has similar eating habbits as you.
Look for someone who's parents are still married.
No offence intended to any of you who have a successful marriage and some of these don't apply. I just found this very helpful when I was looking for someone to marry.
But I will say that my wife and I check all these boxes.
This is what I think of when I think "compatable"
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I think two people both need to have their needs met in a relationship and there's no right or wrong way to make that happen but that's what makes people compatible. I don't think today's modern society of constant satisfaction makes marriage easy.
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In 2005, I started what eventually became my current job, and I had two co-workers who were both lifelong bachelors. Rick and Gene were both in their 40's, as was I at the time. Gene had been with Nancy for 17 years, they lived together and were common-law spouses, but were not married and had no intention of ever getting married. Gene retired a few years ago and rode off into the sunset with Nancy. Rick and Julie had been together for a while, and three years later they were married. Rick retired a while back, too, with Julie. Their situations (the two couples, that is) were basically exactly the same. They'd been together for years, lived together for years, will probably die together. The only difference is that Rick and Julie finally decided "what the hell" and got married at 50something, and Gene and Nancy didn't.
Getting old sucks anyway, but I have to imagine that getting old alone has to suck more than getting old but having someone with you on the journey who can help you and who you can help. I come on DTF and bitch sometimes about my wife or women or whatever, but it's all just philosophical, just discussion.
And does it really matter if you're married or just "with someone"? No, not if it doesn't matter to you or her (or him). But I'd still rather be with someone than alone as I get older.
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Dang, thanks for all the input, guys. Just to clarify, I think marriage and family are good things (and God-ordained). I venture to say that it's something almost all people should strive for if they want to live their fullest life (and something I do want to strive for). However, despite thinking that marriage is a good thing, I think it's equally true that some couples should never have gotten married. Now, given that they have made that commitment, I think they should honor that commitment now that it exists. But they shouldn't have signed on in the first place. And I am very leery of making the wrong decision, personally. I've seen some friends just deciding to tie the knot with *somebody*, and it really hamstrings their potential. I definitely fear being trapped, as I have felt trapped in an LTR and it was just the worst, most frustrating experience of my life. So that's why I asked, "When is marriage worth it?" And you all have been responding that question beautifully. :)
Also, happy birthday bosky ;)
Look for someone who has the same politics as you.
Look for someone who has the same religion as you (or lack thereof).
Look for someone who has the same family outlook as you (agree on kids and parenting).
Look for someone with the same culture/growing up experience as you (not race, I don't think that matters).
Look for someone who has similar eating habbits as you.
Look for someone who's parents are still married.
I see the importance of compatibility re: same politics, religion, and family outlook. Those are tied to core values. Re: same culture/growing up experience--I don't know, but I would feel enthusiastic to end up with someone from a different culture, so long as we shared the same core values of course. Re: race, yeah I agree race doesn't matter; I even think it's a little icky when people say they don't date ___'s. People have a right to their preferences but I don't think all preferences are right. Re: eating habits, I kinda hope it's what both people are aiming for and not what is actual. I still eat too many Pringles and Oreos but am trying to eat healthier gradually. Re: parents who are still married--yeah, I agree that statistically this makes sense, but I wouldn't want to judge someone pre-emptively for family issues that were entirely outside of their control.
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In 2005, I started what eventually became my current job, and I had two co-workers who were both lifelong bachelors. Rick and Gene were both in their 40's, as was I at the time. Gene had been with Nancy for 17 years, they lived together and were common-law spouses, but were not married and had no intention of ever getting married. Gene retired a few years ago and rode off into the sunset with Nancy. Rick and Julie had been together for a while, and three years later they were married. Rick retired a while back, too, with Julie. Their situations (the two couples, that is) were basically exactly the same. They'd been together for years, lived together for years, will probably die together. The only difference is that Rick and Julie finally decided "what the hell" and got married at 50something, and Gene and Nancy didn't.
Getting old sucks anyway, but I have to imagine that getting old alone has to suck more than getting old but having someone with you on the journey who can help you and who you can help. I come on DTF and bitch sometimes about my wife or women or whatever, but it's all just philosophical, just discussion.
And does it really matter if you're married or just "with someone"? No, not if it doesn't matter to you or her (or him). But I'd still rather be with someone than alone as I get older.
I agree 100%. I doubt many people would want to be alone when they die. I love that I have someone I can grow old with. And our marriage isn't perfect either, but it's pretty good. I'm glad you shared your story because it did make for good discussion and it was really funny!
Dang, thanks for all the input, guys. Just to clarify, I think marriage and family are good things (and God-ordained). I venture to say that it's something almost all people should strive for if they want to live their fullest life (and something I do want to strive for). However, despite thinking that marriage is a good thing, I think it's equally true that some couples should never have gotten married. Now, given that they have made that commitment, I think they should honor that commitment now that it exists. But they shouldn't have signed on in the first place. And I am very leery of making the wrong decision, personally. I've seen some friends just deciding to tie the knot with *somebody*, and it really hamstrings their potential. I definitely fear being trapped, as I have felt trapped in an LTR and it was just the worst, most frustrating experience of my life. So that's why I asked, "When is marriage worth it?" And you all have been responding that question beautifully. :)
Also, happy birthday bosky ;)
Look for someone who has the same politics as you.
Look for someone who has the same religion as you (or lack thereof).
Look for someone who has the same family outlook as you (agree on kids and parenting).
Look for someone with the same culture/growing up experience as you (not race, I don't think that matters).
Look for someone who has similar eating habbits as you.
Look for someone who's parents are still married.
I see the importance of compatibility re: same politics, religion, and family outlook. Those are tied to core values. Re: same culture/growing up experience--I don't know, but I would feel enthusiastic to end up with someone from a different culture, so long as we shared the same core values of course. Re: race, yeah I agree race doesn't matter; I even think it's a little icky when people say they don't date ___'s. People have a right to their preferences but I don't think all preferences are right. Re: eating habits, I kinda hope it's what both people are aiming for and not what is actual. I still eat too many Pringles and Oreos but am trying to eat healthier gradually. Re: parents who are still married--yeah, I agree that statistically this makes sense, but I wouldn't want to judge someone pre-emptively for family issues that were entirely outside of their control.
Just to clarify a little. When I said eating habits I meant vegan vs carnivore - that sort of thing. Also culture might be more important that you think. I've seen a few guys who married beautiful women from other parts of the world, and even though their values were similar, because of the cultural divide, it became a HUGE strain on the relationship because of subtle things like manners, household/work expectations and so on. A lot of stuff we take for granted because that's "just the way we grew up". And yeah, I mentioned the "married parents" thing because of statistics, but you're right it is probably the least important item I put on my list.
But hey, happy hunting! If you decide to go down the marriage road, I wish you all the best. I certainly don't regret it.
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Married for 13 years and honestly we're going through the roughest patch our marriage has ever seen. Yet I would still say without a doubt that marriage is worth it. I fully expect us to come.out the other side of this tough spot better than ever. I was always a marriage minded person though. I wasn't ever going to live with or have kids with someone I wasn't married to. I guess I'm old fashioned that way.
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Married for 13 years and honestly we're going through the roughest patch our marriage has ever seen. Yet I would still say without a doubt that marriage is worth it. I fully expect us to come.out the other side of this tough spot better than ever. I was always a marriage minded person though. I wasn't ever going to live with or have kids with someone I wasn't married to. I guess I'm old fashioned that way.
I hope things in your marriage get better for you soon. It's nice to see optimism in the face of a rough time. And I'm with you, I planned to wait to have children until after I was married as well. I think there's something to be said about being old fashioned.
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The mice were vanquished some time ago, thankfully. That, and I sealed up every hole in my apartment and body with Wacky Glue.
!!
??
!!
:tup
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Look for someone who has the same politics as you.
Look for someone who has the same religion as you (or lack thereof).
Look for someone who has the same family outlook as you (agree on kids and parenting).
Look for someone with the same culture/growing up experience as you (not race, I don't think that matters).
Look for someone who has similar eating habbits as you.
Look for someone who's parents are still married.
I see the importance of compatibility re: same politics, religion, and family outlook. Those are tied to core values. Re: same culture/growing up experience--I don't know, but I would feel enthusiastic to end up with someone from a different culture, so long as we shared the same core values of course. Re: race, yeah I agree race doesn't matter; I even think it's a little icky when people say they don't date ___'s. People have a right to their preferences but I don't think all preferences are right. Re: eating habits, I kinda hope it's what both people are aiming for and not what is actual. I still eat too many Pringles and Oreos but am trying to eat healthier gradually. Re: parents who are still married--yeah, I agree that statistically this makes sense, but I wouldn't want to judge someone pre-emptively for family issues that were entirely outside of their control.
I politely disagree with a lot of this (both posts) and defer to something Cram said, which I read as "to each their own". For me, it's far less about "what religion" or "what politics" than "how do you handle your religion" and "how do you handle your politics". I don't want to marry a clone of me, no matter how good-looking, smart and erudite that might make them. :). I want a partner that will be their own person, that will have their point of view, that will respectfully and intelligently articulate it, and will likewise respect mine.
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Married for 13 years and honestly we're going through the roughest patch our marriage has ever seen. Yet I would still say without a doubt that marriage is worth it. I fully expect us to come.out the other side of this tough spot better than ever. I was always a marriage minded person though. I wasn't ever going to live with or have kids with someone I wasn't married to. I guess I'm old fashioned that way.
I hope things in your marriage get better for you soon. It's nice to see optimism in the face of a rough time.
Thanks. I really hope it gets better soon too. I have no choice but to be optimistic. I signed up for better or for worse, so I'm not going to run when things get tough.
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Did you know that a long time ago, women used to get married in order to lose their virginity so they would be free to do as they please with other men?
I venture to say that it's something almost all people should strive for if they want to live their fullest life
Not necessarily. It is possible to live a fullest life without being married and conversely, marriage doesn't guarantee a fullest life.
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I venture to say that it's something almost all people should strive for if they want to live their fullest life
Not necessarily. It is possible to live a fullest life without being married and conversely, marriage doesn't guarantee a fullest life.
I accept both those premises and still maintain my position. :angel:
Well, I guess it depends on how I interpret your first premise. I don't think that every person is such that they don't need to be married and have a family to live their fullest life. But I venture to say that most people do need this.
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Don't married people, on average, live longer?
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Don't married people, on average, live longer?
I refer you back to Exhibit A, my fear of collapsing at the tender age of 35 with nobody around to call the amberlamps
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I politely disagree with a lot of this (both posts) and defer to something Cram said, which I read as "to each their own". For me, it's far less about "what religion" or "what politics" than "how do you handle your religion" and "how do you handle your politics". I don't want to marry a clone of me, no matter how good-looking, smart and erudite that might make them. :). I want a partner that will be their own person, that will have their point of view, that will respectfully and intelligently articulate it, and will likewise respect mine.
Re: the last sentence, can't all of that be true at the same time that they share your politics and religion?
I see where you're coming from. I like people that (confidently) disagree with me, and encounters with people who disagree with you are a great opportunity for growth. However, in practice I'm not sure it makes sense to be with someone who has very different religious and political opinions from you. For instance, if you had a Protestant x Catholic couple: Catholics are required to raise their children Catholic, which is something the Protestant probably doesn't want to do. Another point, most Christians in general think that they are morally required to marry other Christians. So yeah, I do see religion as a point of conflict for most people. Now if you have two people who BOTH think it is not important to share core religious beliefs, then I think I agree that those two people might be religiously compatible. But the problem is that many people DO think it is important to share core religious beliefs with a spouse. And...they honestly SHOULD think that. Religious beliefs should inform every category of life and constitute your core values, so two people with different religions will necessarily differ in their core values and hence will be incompatible.
Re: political beliefs, I see that as a little more flexible. But still, political beliefs usually reflect core beliefs and a difference in particular political beliefs probably indicates a difference in core beliefs. For example, if I believe UBI is a bad idea and my spouse believes it's a good idea, that's not automatically a deal-breaker, but if I believe that a welfare state is a bad idea and my spouse doesn't, I think we've got a problem.
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Re: political beliefs, I see that as a little more flexible. But still, political beliefs usually reflect core beliefs and a difference in particular political beliefs probably indicates a difference in core beliefs. For example, if I believe UBI is a bad idea and my spouse believes it's a good idea, that's not automatically a deal-breaker, but if I believe that a welfare state is a bad idea and my spouse doesn't, I think we've got a problem.
I think your distinction between political beliefs and core beliefs, and the relationship between those, is a great point. I think what it boils down to is just making sure core beliefs are in line. Really, making sure you are "compatible" with a potential mate should stem from just having open, honest discussions about those core beliefs. They may or may not be political, religious, etc. It just depends on what is truly important to each person. There are plenty of couples out that there, for example, are diametrically opposed to one another on a variety of political issues, and yet have spectacularly successful marriages because those issues are not really "core beliefs" for them. Sometimes, in having those open, honest conversations, and the (hopefully) give-and-take that should naturally ensue, each person also unintentionally embarks on some self-discovery and learns that things he or she initially thought to be "core beliefs" aren't really deal breakers either, or that there are acceptable compromises.
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I politely disagree with a lot of this (both posts) and defer to something Cram said, which I read as "to each their own". For me, it's far less about "what religion" or "what politics" than "how do you handle your religion" and "how do you handle your politics". I don't want to marry a clone of me, no matter how good-looking, smart and erudite that might make them. :). I want a partner that will be their own person, that will have their point of view, that will respectfully and intelligently articulate it, and will likewise respect mine.
Re: the last sentence, can't all of that be true at the same time that they share your politics and religion?
I see where you're coming from. I like people that (confidently) disagree with me, and encounters with people who disagree with you are a great opportunity for growth. However, in practice I'm not sure it makes sense to be with someone who has very different religious and political opinions from you. For instance, if you had a Protestant x Catholic couple: Catholics are required to raise their children Catholic, which is something the Protestant probably doesn't want to do. Another point, most Christians in general think that they are morally required to marry other Christians. So yeah, I do see religion as a point of conflict for most people. Now if you have two people who BOTH think it is not important to share core religious beliefs, then I think I agree that those two people might be religiously compatible. But the problem is that many people DO think it is important to share core religious beliefs with a spouse. And...they honestly SHOULD think that. Religious beliefs should inform every category of life and constitute your core values, so two people with different religions will necessarily differ in their core values and hence will be incompatible.
Re: political beliefs, I see that as a little more flexible. But still, political beliefs usually reflect core beliefs and a difference in particular political beliefs probably indicates a difference in core beliefs. For example, if I believe UBI is a bad idea and my spouse believes it's a good idea, that's not automatically a deal-breaker, but if I believe that a welfare state is a bad idea and my spouse doesn't, I think we've got a problem.
But it goes back to what Cram said: what works for you? I'm nominally Catholic, but I do not have even one evangelical (that is, a desire to convert others); if that's your thing, so be it, pick your mate accordingly. There's a show on Lifetime where the Pastor from Married At First Sight has 90 days to get two people who have an issue like this to reconcile (so far, what little I've seen, it's dealing with a racist in-law: "I want my grandkids to look like ME!").
I guess I'm different here. I'm not - insert your word: offended, scared, challenged, whatever - about opinions that are different than me, even ones that seem "core". I say this a lot in P/R and I don't get the sense that people really believe me, but I do value and respect opinions that are different than mine. I don't agree with Obamacare, but I don't think people that do are "lesser", or "stupid" or "morally bankrupt". I have plenty of friends that I like, trust, and value that do not share my political or religious beliefs.
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I guess I'm different here. I'm not - insert your word: offended, scared, challenged, whatever - about opinions that are different than me, even ones that seem "core".
And mature people shouldn't be. Reasonable people should be willing and able to civilly discuss those areas where we disagree, and possibly even grow closer together from those discussions, even if by the end, there is NO common ground to be found. And I know you are of the sort that agrees with that sentiment.
But that said, as relevant to this particular discussion, that doesn't mean it is wise or beneficial to choose a mate that you fundamentally disagree with on whatever those "core" issues are. It is a different type of relationship, and while there are always things that will come up that will put strain on the relationship, I think it is very unwise to needlessly go into a relationship like that with something built-in that is going to perpetually cause strain.
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I would tend to agree.
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lar discussion, that doesn't mean it is wise or beneficial to choose a mate that you fundamentally disagree with on whatever those "core" issues are. It is a different type of relationship, and while there are always things that will come up that will put strain on the relationship, I think it is very unwise to needlessly go into a relationship like that with something built-in that is going to perpetually cause strain.
When I was in college there was an adult woman (probably early 40s) in one of my classes who talked about this very thing, and how her husband is a hardcore conservative and she is hardcore liberal. Somehow they made it work. Every once in a while over the last few years I've wondered how they're faring in the Trump Era
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When my wife and I started dating, we decided that we had to agree on three things in order for our relationship to work out:
1. Religion
2. Politics
3. Sammy Hagar as the preferred singer in Van Halen
That is absolutely true. :)
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What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? If you wanted to grow into your career and this required moving away, would it be stupid to walk away from a person who was perfect for you?
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What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? Would it be stupid to walk away?
This one is hard for me. I grew up in a city, but nothing like NYC (Where I am right now). However, I always knew that my future was not in NYC. My partner has been in NYC her whole life and for the first 7 years of our relationship she did not even think about leaving NYC for any other place. Over the last 2 years, through her own experiences and change of thoughts (i guess) we are both now in agreement that NYC is not for us.
I guess what I'm saying is that it was not a deal breaker for me since I was willing to compromise. But maybe further down the road it could have become an issue.
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What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? If you wanted to grow into your career and this required moving away, would it be stupid to walk away from a person who was perfect for you?
If you were both equally passionate about your opinion, it would most likely be a dealbreaker, because you then wouldn't both be in the same place.
With me, I've never cared that much about where we live. When I got married, my wife had been born and raised and always lived in her small hometown, so we lived there. Several years ago, she got a great job opportunity in Raleigh (a much larger city), so now we are there. I was fine either way; it doesn't matter that much to me.
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I politely disagree with a lot of this (both posts) and defer to something Cram said, which I read as "to each their own". For me, it's far less about "what religion" or "what politics" than "how do you handle your religion" and "how do you handle your politics". I don't want to marry a clone of me, no matter how good-looking, smart and erudite that might make them. :). I want a partner that will be their own person, that will have their point of view, that will respectfully and intelligently articulate it, and will likewise respect mine.
That's totally fine Stadler, and you're right, to each their own. My list was primarily a road map to prevent as much tension as possible. And my list aligns with my core values. It is a formula that worked out very well for me and many acquaintances in my circles, but that certainly doesn't mean it would be the ideal for everyone.
My list also leans on the "happy wife, happy life" idea. If it's fairly easy to make my wife happy (ie having a lot in common), then it's more likely that my life will also be happy. I also understand that you wouldn't want your wife to be a clone of you, but... I would contend that the fact that she's a woman prevents that :biggrin:.
What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? If you wanted to grow into your career and this required moving away, would it be stupid to walk away from a person who was perfect for you?
I agree with the others. This could be a big deal breaker also. In fact it happened to a friend of mine. He fell madly in love with a woman that lived half way across the county, they got married and then tried to figure out where they were going to live. Well, they've been married a year and still don't live together. The way things are going I don't expect the marriage to last much longer.
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I guess I'm different here. I'm not - insert your word: offended, scared, challenged, whatever - about opinions that are different than me, even ones that seem "core".
And mature people shouldn't be. Reasonable people should be willing and able to civilly discuss those areas where we disagree, and possibly even grow closer together from those discussions, even if by the end, there is NO common ground to be found. And I know you are of the sort that agrees with that sentiment.
But that said, as relevant to this particular discussion, that doesn't mean it is wise or beneficial to choose a mate that you fundamentally disagree with on whatever those "core" issues are. It is a different type of relationship, and while there are always things that will come up that will put strain on the relationship, I think it is very unwise to needlessly go into a relationship like that with something built-in that is going to perpetually cause strain.
I don't disagree with that even a little bit; but it goes back to "what works for you", and something that has been unsaid so far, "being honest with oneself". When I remarried - a surprise, even to me - I was in the middle of therapy (well, still do go every week) and very much in tune with what I was looking for and what I could tolerate. I have my dealbreakers, but I also (think) I know myself after half a century on this planet. So I know that while I don't care if she's a Democrat, or likes Keith Urban, if she was someone prone to playing the victim, well, Houston, we have a problem. I tend to not be bothered much by ideas, but AM bothered by other things like people's attitudes. So I structure accordingly. The problem - and the difference I was unconsciously going for - is that "attitude" doesn't translate well to paper. It's easy to list "I like puppies, Squeeze, and chicken pot pies (the food, not our friend here, though maybe her too)", but that doesn't get to the core of a person.
I thinking of two people in my life now that thought "Oh, we love hockey/good food/travel/whatever" and were over the moon... and now can barely conceal their contempt for each other, because none of those things matter when one of them is, say, home sick and the other is out partying with his friends seemingly without a care in the world.
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When my wife and I started dating, we decided that we had to agree on three things in order for our relationship to work out:
1. Religion
2. Politics
3. Sammy Hagar as the preferred singer in Van Halen
That is absolutely true. :)
What is WRONG with you??
:) :) :)
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I politely disagree with a lot of this (both posts) and defer to something Cram said, which I read as "to each their own". For me, it's far less about "what religion" or "what politics" than "how do you handle your religion" and "how do you handle your politics". I don't want to marry a clone of me, no matter how good-looking, smart and erudite that might make them. :). I want a partner that will be their own person, that will have their point of view, that will respectfully and intelligently articulate it, and will likewise respect mine.
That's totally fine Stadler, and you're right, to each their own. My list was primarily a road map to prevent as much tension as possible. And my list aligns with my core values. It is a formula that worked out very well for me and many acquaintances in my circles, but that certainly doesn't mean it would be the ideal for everyone.
My list also leans on the "happy wife, happy life" idea. If it's fairly easy to make my wife happy (ie having a lot in common), then it's more likely that my life will also be happy. I also understand that you wouldn't want your wife to be a clone of you, but... I would contend that the fact that she's a woman prevents that :biggrin:.
I'm sorry to seem like I'm still arguing this - I'm not at all - but just making sure I'm understood: I'm saying that it's faulty to assume that this is where the tension is. YOU have to be honest with yourself. If you're one of those people that are "Democrat" or "Jewish" and just are stuck on the idea that anyone who isn't is "stupid/Godless/lesser/whatever", then make it an issue in your selection. But I just see too many people that made their decision based on that kind of thing, then ended up ten years later realizing that was the least of their concerns. I've written about this before in the "Lonely Hearts" thread; for someone like me, who's sort of an amateur psychologist, being 45 and in the dating scene was like a trip to the toy store. LITERALLY 100's of women with deeply detailed profiles about all the things they liked and disliked, and yet... still looking, still searching. "Democrat Dave Matthews Band fans over 6'0"" is NOT a limiting category. :)
What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? If you wanted to grow into your career and this required moving away, would it be stupid to walk away from a person who was perfect for you?
I agree with the others. This could be a big deal breaker also. In fact it happened to a friend of mine. He fell madly in love with a woman that lived half way across the county, they got married and then tried to figure out where they were going to live. Well, they've been married a year and still don't live together. The way things are going I don't expect the marriage to last much longer.
If I had my way, I'd move to Philadelphia this afternoon. Instead I'm in a shitty (not kidding, it sucks here) blue collar backwater, the last exit before you leave this miserable state (not kidding, it sucks here) for good, because my wife is from here, our grandson lives here, and our son (well, my stepson) is on the spectrum and gets comfort from being here (it's also near his dad). Until this question, I didn't give it a moments thought. I make my days as good as they can be, and don't waste a second on what my address is.
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What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? If you wanted to grow into your career and this required moving away, would it be stupid to walk away from a person who was perfect for you?
I agree with the others. This could be a big deal breaker also. In fact it happened to a friend of mine. He fell madly in love with a woman that lived half way across the county, they got married and then tried to figure out where they were going to live. Well, they've been married a year and still don't live together. The way things are going I don't expect the marriage to last much longer.
If I had my way, I'd move to Philadelphia this afternoon. Instead I'm in a shitty (not kidding, it sucks here) blue collar backwater, the last exit before you leave this miserable state (not kidding, it sucks here) for good, because my wife is from here, our grandson lives here, and our son (well, my stepson) is on the spectrum and gets comfort from being here (it's also near his dad). Until this question, I didn't give it a moments thought. I make my days as good as they can be, and don't waste a second on what my address is.
Gosh, you're making it sound like it DOES matter quite a lot. I fear living in the midwest forever. I hate it here :lol . But a lot of girls here call this place home and can't imagine leaving. So...sayonara sister, I guess?
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I'm sorry to seem like I'm still arguing this - I'm not at all - but just making sure I'm understood: I'm saying that it's faulty to assume that this is where the tension is. YOU have to be honest with yourself. If you're one of those people that are "Democrat" or "Jewish" and just are stuck on the idea that anyone who isn't is "stupid/Godless/lesser/whatever", then make it an issue in your selection. But I just see too many people that made their decision based on that kind of thing, then ended up ten years later realizing that was the least of their concerns. I've written about this before in the "Lonely Hearts" thread; for someone like me, who's sort of an amateur psychologist, being 45 and in the dating scene was like a trip to the toy store. LITERALLY 100's of women with deeply detailed profiles about all the things they liked and disliked, and yet... still looking, still searching. "Democrat Dave Matthews Band fans over 6'0"" is NOT a limiting category. :)
No worries Stadler, it's good healthy discussion. Of course there's no way to remove all sources of potential relationship destroying tension. My list only tries to reduce that potential. But yeah, there are plenty that check those boxes and still don't make it. I do know a few myself, but I know a lot more that have made it. I also agree that you can make that relationships "needs" list too long and too detailed. I don't think mine was too long, but someone else might.
In the end, it worked out really well for me. But no matter what boxes are checked, marriage still takes a lot of work to make it successful. Even the most compatable of couples can still find themselves dangling at the end of divorce papers if they aren't always vigilant.
Also, you've experienced divorce. That gives you a perspective I don't have.
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Do you guys ever discuss work related issues with your significant other?
In the past I was guilty of sharing way too much about the negative side of my day, so now I try not to bring my work home with me, but sometimes things happen that are pretty rough and its super obvious that something is wrong.
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Do you guys ever discuss work related issues with your significant other?
In the past I was guilty of sharing way too much about the negative side of my day, so now I try not to bring my work home with me, but sometimes things happen that are pretty rough and hard to keep it inside.
Sometimes. Not in any great detail because it would usually involve giving more background info that it's worth taking the time to do. There are definitely occasionally stories that just can't not be shared.
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Do you guys ever discuss work related issues with your significant other?
In the past I was guilty of sharing way too much about the negative side of my day, so now I try not to bring my work home with me, but sometimes things happen that are pretty rough and hard to keep it inside.
Sometimes. Not in any great detail because it would usually involve giving more background info that it's worth taking the time to do. There are definitely occasionally stories that just can't not be shared.
Exactly this. The context of a lot of things that go on with my work aren't things that would make sense to mrs.jingle - and to explain them is not worth it (for either of us).
Frankly, I talk more about the discussions that happen here than with work.
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Do you guys ever discuss work related issues with your significant other?
In the past I was guilty of sharing way too much about the negative side of my day, so now I try not to bring my work home with me, but sometimes things happen that are pretty rough and its super obvious that something is wrong.
That's a super good question. I don't, unless it's just an occassional passing comment as part of a larger conversation. But I understand the "bad day" vibe that can happen sometimes.
This is what I do. I generally walk to work so I created a path for myself to get myself mentally prepared. When I walk to work I take a route that brings me by all the stores, shoping and other business in the community I live in. This helps me mentally prepare to go to work every day.
Then on my way home, I take a different route through the neighborhoods. This helps me separate myself from the work day I had and prepare mentally to go home to my family.
I can't say I am always successful in preventing baggage from coming home with me but it works pretty well.
However, sometimes you just have an extra bad day, and you need to talk to someone. IMHO that's part of the reason to have a significant other, to have someone to talk to and to console each other when times are rough.
As long as your bad days aren't a common occurance, I don't see a problem talking it out when you get home. If it is a common occurance, it might be worth considering finding a new job if that's an option that is available to you. Having a lot of bad days is no way to live life if you can help it IMHO.
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I'm sorry to seem like I'm still arguing this - I'm not at all - but just making sure I'm understood: I'm saying that it's faulty to assume that this is where the tension is. YOU have to be honest with yourself. If you're one of those people that are "Democrat" or "Jewish" and just are stuck on the idea that anyone who isn't is "stupid/Godless/lesser/whatever", then make it an issue in your selection. But I just see too many people that made their decision based on that kind of thing, then ended up ten years later realizing that was the least of their concerns. I've written about this before in the "Lonely Hearts" thread; for someone like me, who's sort of an amateur psychologist, being 45 and in the dating scene was like a trip to the toy store. LITERALLY 100's of women with deeply detailed profiles about all the things they liked and disliked, and yet... still looking, still searching. "Democrat Dave Matthews Band fans over 6'0"" is NOT a limiting category. :)
No worries Stadler, it's good healthy discussion. Of course there's no way to remove all sources of potential relationship destroying tension. My list only tries to reduce that potential. But yeah, there are plenty that check those boxes and still don't make it. I do know a few myself, but I know a lot more that have made it. I also agree that you can make that relationships "needs" list too long and too detailed. I don't think mine was too long, but someone else might.
In the end, it worked out really well for me. But no matter what boxes are checked, marriage still takes a lot of work to make it successful. Even the most compatable of couples can still find themselves dangling at the end of divorce papers if they aren't always vigilant.
Also, you've experienced divorce. That gives you a perspective I don't have.
I'm sorry, there's no way to say this without sounding more dickish than I mean to, but hopefully the other divorcees can back me up on this. Until you've gone through it... for me, even though it was, in hindsight, a good thing for me and my kid, and I wouldn't change a thing (other than having gone through it sooner!), it was still, in the moment, the hardest thing I've ever done, by far (and I've done some shit). Having said that, the bold was me and my ex-wife. On paper, it was perfect. Same politics, same religion, we both liked to boat and have a couple drinks, we enjoyed concerts, she was ex-military (I wasn't but I'm from a military family), right on down the line. But it didn't work, and it wasn't ever really going to work, I realized after a time. We're actually on good terms now, as we have both grown up a bit and both got honest with ourselves and (to an extent, let's not get crazy here; she's still got deep issues to be resolved) each other.
And before certain people jump on me, I am well aware that I am not the paradigm for the world. I don't offer this as gospel or as rules, or to suggest that my way is the only way. I offer it as only one example out of many, and one empirical data point that just because the "likes" line up, it's no guarantee.
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Gotta love DTF. Orbert makes a autobiographical, humorous post about the occasionally frustrating issues of communication with a spouse...and look what it turns into. Now I know what bosk1 was talking about with his marriage/parenting thread. :lol
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I was just thinking the same thing. "Look what I hath wrought!"
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Frankly, I talk more about the discussions that happen here than with work.
:lol and does that get us back to what Orbert started this thread except roles reversed?
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Do you guys ever discuss work related issues with your significant other?
In the past I was guilty of sharing way too much about the negative side of my day, so now I try not to bring my work home with me, but sometimes things happen that are pretty rough and hard to keep it inside.
Sometimes. Not in any great detail because it would usually involve giving more background info that it's worth taking the time to do. There are definitely occasionally stories that just can't not be shared.
Exactly this. The context of a lot of things that go on with my work aren't things that would make sense to mrs.jingle - and to explain them is not worth it (for either of us).
Frankly, I talk more about the discussions that happen here than with work.
I do both. I don't go into the details with work, but I do get enough across so she knows if there are stressors at work, or if there is travel coming up.
I also talk about here a fair amount. I refer a lot to "my friend in [insert geography]". Hahaha.
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I refer a lot to "my friend in [insert geography]". Hahaha.
*blushes*
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I'm sorry to seem like I'm still arguing this - I'm not at all - but just making sure I'm understood: I'm saying that it's faulty to assume that this is where the tension is. YOU have to be honest with yourself. If you're one of those people that are "Democrat" or "Jewish" and just are stuck on the idea that anyone who isn't is "stupid/Godless/lesser/whatever", then make it an issue in your selection. But I just see too many people that made their decision based on that kind of thing, then ended up ten years later realizing that was the least of their concerns. I've written about this before in the "Lonely Hearts" thread; for someone like me, who's sort of an amateur psychologist, being 45 and in the dating scene was like a trip to the toy store. LITERALLY 100's of women with deeply detailed profiles about all the things they liked and disliked, and yet... still looking, still searching. "Democrat Dave Matthews Band fans over 6'0"" is NOT a limiting category. :)
No worries Stadler, it's good healthy discussion. Of course there's no way to remove all sources of potential relationship destroying tension. My list only tries to reduce that potential. But yeah, there are plenty that check those boxes and still don't make it. I do know a few myself, but I know a lot more that have made it. I also agree that you can make that relationships "needs" list too long and too detailed. I don't think mine was too long, but someone else might.
In the end, it worked out really well for me. But no matter what boxes are checked, marriage still takes a lot of work to make it successful. Even the most compatable of couples can still find themselves dangling at the end of divorce papers if they aren't always vigilant.
Also, you've experienced divorce. That gives you a perspective I don't have.
I'm sorry, there's no way to say this without sounding more dickish than I mean to, but hopefully the other divorcees can back me up on this. Until you've gone through it... for me, even though it was, in hindsight, a good thing for me and my kid, and I wouldn't change a thing (other than having gone through it sooner!), it was still, in the moment, the hardest thing I've ever done, by far (and I've done some shit). Having said that, the bold was me and my ex-wife. On paper, it was perfect. Same politics, same religion, we both liked to boat and have a couple drinks, we enjoyed concerts, she was ex-military (I wasn't but I'm from a military family), right on down the line. But it didn't work, and it wasn't ever really going to work, I realized after a time. We're actually on good terms now, as we have both grown up a bit and both got honest with ourselves and (to an extent, let's not get crazy here; she's still got deep issues to be resolved) each other.
And before certain people jump on me, I am well aware that I am not the paradigm for the world. I don't offer this as gospel or as rules, or to suggest that my way is the only way. I offer it as only one example out of many, and one empirical data point that just because the "likes" line up, it's no guarantee.
Stadler, maybe I'm missing something here, but it looks to me like we agree?
Gotta love DTF. Orbert makes a autobiographical, humorous post about the occasionally frustrating issues of communication with a spouse...and look what it turns into. Now I know what bosk1 was talking about with his marriage/parenting thread. :lol
:rollin
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Gotta love DTF. Orbert makes a autobiographical, humorous post about the occasionally frustrating issues of communication with a spouse...and look what it turns into. Now I know what bosk1 was talking about with his marriage/parenting thread. :lol
Right?
:itsnotunusual:
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Gotta love DTF. Orbert makes a autobiographical, humorous post about the occasionally frustrating issues of communication with a spouse...and look what it turns into. Now I know what bosk1 was talking about with his marriage/parenting thread. :lol
I can't speak for anyone else, but the idea that a conversation has to stick exclusively to the preliminary boundaries is... weird. Ideas go where ideas go.
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Here's my amusing wife story to bring things back to the original topic.
My wife gets migraines, largely due to tight muscles in her shoulders and neck. We were at the science museum on Sunday with our kids and she brought in her purse. About an hour in she says "Ugh... this purse is going to give me a migraine." since she wears it on one shoulder and it throws her muscles off over time.
Me: "Why did you bring it in if you know it gives you migraines to carry it for too long?"
Her: "I wanted to bring in a water bottle."
Me: "Couldn't you have just carried the water bottle or used the drinking fountain?"
Her: "I also wanted my wallet"
Me: "Why?"
Her: "In case I needed my ID." (We were getting a membership and she thought we might need it, fair enough)
Me: "Couldn't you just have put your ID in your pocket?"
Her: ...
Me: "Give your purse to me, I'll carry it for you." I didn't want her getting a migraine, I had some... uh... plans... for later. (Success by the way :hat)
Seriously... think ahead a little bit.
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Why doesn't she just switch shoulders to equalize everything? :justjen
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Me: "Give your purse to me, I'll carry it for you." I didn't want her getting a migraine, I had some... uh... plans... for later. (Success by the way :hat)
Seriously... think ahead a little bit.
:clap:
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Why doesn't she just switch shoulders to equalize everything? :justjen
That works for a while, but eventually it gets to be too much. I don't know. None of it makes any sense to me.
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Why doesn't she just switch shoulders to equalize everything? :justjen
Better question: why carry a purse that's so heavy and/or uncomfortable that it gives her migraines?
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Why doesn't she just switch shoulders to equalize everything? :justjen
Better question: why carry a purse that's so heavy and/or uncomfortable that it gives her migraines?
Better question: why carry a purse at all?
Don't bother with that one. I'm married too.
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I swear, my wife has one of those bags like Hermione has in Harry Potter. Tents, shovels, complete dinner settings....
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The Lovely Mrs TAC doesn't carry a big bag, but if she doesn't want to carry her purse, then I'll just put her ID in my wallet.
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My wife usually doesn't carry a big purse or if she does it's usually not very heavy. Not sure why she felt the need on Sunday.
Better question: why carry a purse at all?
Because if she didn't, she wouldn't be able to carry around the 28 half used gift cards, 17 obsolete membership cards, and various small bills stuck into random nooks and crannies.
In fairness, she managed to save us $21 on the museum membership because she's a homeschool teacher and randomly had a Half Price Book teacher card that they accepted as proof.
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I found a solution to this purse issue early on in my marriage. A few years after my wife and I got married, I had known her long enough to know that what ever sized bag she happened to be carrying, she would fill it up.
So once I could afford it, I bought her a really nice and SMALL leather purse. I made sure I got one that looked great and still had plenty of pockets. She has used that purse ever since. She never complains about it being too heavy or that she can't find anything in it.
I share this mostly to be tongue and cheek. She knows why I bought her a small purse and slyly kids me about it now and then. But, she's never asked for another purse. Win win as far as I'm concerned. :tup
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I swear, my wife has one of those bags like Hermione has in Harry Potter. Tents, shovels, complete dinner settings....
I think every woman's bag has a pocket-sized black hole in there or a door to another dimension or something. You can put more than twice the stuff in there than what would normaly fit and it still has room for more stuff. And you can at least search for an hour for your keys in there, before you realize you left them at home. ;)
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For the past few years (decade+), mrs.jingle. has had a backpack style "purse" that she slings over both shoulders. The current one has a (zipper) detachable "normal" purse that she can carry around if necessary, but I don't think I've ever seen her take it off.
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You guys are so invested in discussing these stereotypes as they are that you won't use basic psychology to figure them out and instead treat 'em (jokingly, I hope) as some big mystery.
The reason why we carry unwieldy purses filled with many things is because our clothes don't have many useful pockets. So you have to get used to carrying things in a purse and over time come to prefer it. And then, as long as you're carrying a purse, why not fit another not-necessary-but-nice-to-have thing in it. And then, why not buy one bag that's slightly bigger so that you can fit more. And so it goes, the exact same process that would happen to men if someone sewed your pockets shut, judging by how many of my male friends treat me as a purse on legs when they need someone to hold on to some extra stuff :lol
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That's what the house is for men, a place for more stuff
https://youtu.be/gDkA59e2_yU?t=40 (https://youtu.be/gDkA59e2_yU?t=40)
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You guys are so invested in discussing these stereotypes as they are that you won't use basic psychology to figure them out and instead treat 'em (jokingly, I hope) as some big mystery.
The reason why we carry unwieldy purses filled with many things is because our clothes don't have many useful pockets. So you have to get used to carrying things in a purse and over time come to prefer it. And then, as long as you're carrying a purse, why not fit another not-necessary-but-nice-to-have thing in it. And then, why not buy one bag that's slightly bigger so that you can fit more. And so it goes, the exact same process that would happen to men if someone sewed your pockets shut, judging by how many of my male friends treat me as a purse on legs when they need someone to hold on to some extra stuff :lol
Thanks for your perspective and humor :). Even though I've been married for nearly two decades, I confess, women are still a mystery to me and probably always will be.
But I've got to say that this thread has caused to fondly appreciate the quirks that come with being a woman. Even though there are things about my wife that cause me to shake my head sometimes, those are also things that cause me to love her the most. Femeninity is frustrating but also irresistibly attractive. I wouldn't have it any other way. Man I love that woman!
Also, I'm not saying that us men don't have quirks as well, I know we do.
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I swear, my wife has one of those bags like Hermione has in Harry Potter. Tents, shovels, complete dinner settings....
I think every woman's bag has a pocket-sized black hole in there or a door to another dimension or something. You can put more than twice the stuff in there than what would normaly fit and it still has room for more stuff. And you can at least search for an hour for your keys in there, before you realize you left them at home. ;)
(https://www.thewhoshop.com/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/b/i/bio_handbag.jpg)
That's what the house is for men, a place for more stuff
https://youtu.be/gDkA59e2_yU?t=40 (https://youtu.be/gDkA59e2_yU?t=40)
I can still remember hearing that for the first time in high school. Still makes me laugh (as does that whole album).
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You guys are so invested in discussing these stereotypes as they are that you won't use basic psychology to figure them out and instead treat 'em (jokingly, I hope) as some big mystery.
The reason why we carry unwieldy purses filled with many things is because our clothes don't have many useful pockets. So you have to get used to carrying things in a purse and over time come to prefer it. And then, as long as you're carrying a purse, why not fit another not-necessary-but-nice-to-have thing in it. And then, why not buy one bag that's slightly bigger so that you can fit more. And so it goes, the exact same process that would happen to men if someone sewed your pockets shut, judging by how many of my male friends treat me as a purse on legs when they need someone to hold on to some extra stuff :lol
We are indeed treating the topic in a joking fashion to keep it light and hopefully not offend anybody. It's a stereotype for sure, but stereotypes get to be stereotypes because they are true often enough for people to get it. Yeah, yeah, there are exceptions.
The pockets thing is a fair point. Pockets lead to bumps and bulges in weird places and ain't nobody wanna see dat. How we gonna check you out if you got all dem bumps and bulges? But that's not the whole story. Women in general carry a number of things with them that men don't need to, and therefore wouldn't whether they had enough pockets or not. Obviously there's the females-only items, but there's also things like tissues, lip balm, pocket mirror, etc. Things that guys wouldn't carry if they had 100 pockets. Guys have their wallet, keys, a pocket knife or other utility item, and maybe some change. That's all most of us ever need or want to carry.
I've been married 30 years and am still amazed when there's something we need in the moment, and my wife pulls one out of her purse. Something I would never carry with me "just in case" but yep, she's got one in her purse. Bottle opener maybe. Tiny flashlight. Tiny screwdriver set. Handy stuff for sure, but I'm not going to carry all that around with me. Since she's carrying a purse anyway, this opens the door to carrying any number of other things. Stuff that's not essential but hey, you never know. I'd still never carry it. Wallet, keys, pocket knife, good to go.
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I don't do a pocket knife anymore. Got out of the habit when airports got weird about that. But I'm still limited to basically only 3 "must-have" items at any given point: wallet, keys, and phone. If I can't find one of those 3 items, it can result in instant panic mode. But outside of those, I don't need to have it on me unless there is some reason specific to a specific excursion.
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Yeah, today I guess I have to add phone to the list, but the pocket knife is my magic good luck charm. I don't normally believe in that, but it was a gift from my now late sister-in-law, and has been lost countless times over the years, sometimes for weeks, but always turns up somehow. It's unexplainable. It's also a file, screwdriver, and mini-scissors, and there've been days when I used it a dozen times or more. I've had to leave it in the car a few times, but it's on me otherwise.
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But I'm still limited to basically only 3 "must-have" items at any given point: wallet, keys, and phone. If I can't find one of those 3 items, it can result in instant panic mode.
Yup, all in three different pockets and whenver I leave from where I am, I do my 3 pat check to make sure all are there otherwise instant panic mode.
I also stopped carrying my pocket knife once I forgot to remove it before going to a concert and ended up tossing it, never to buy another because I know I'd end up bringing it accidently where I shouldn't. There are times I miss it, but they are few.
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Yeah, today I guess I have to add phone to the list, but the pocket knife is my magic good luck charm. I don't normally believe in that, but it was a gift from my now late sister-in-law, and has been lost countless times over the years, sometimes for weeks, but always turns up somehow. It's unexplainable. It's also a file, screwdriver, and mini-scissors, and there've been days when I used it a dozen times or more. I've had to leave it in the car a few times, but it's on me otherwise.
For me, phone, wallet, keys. And on my key chain is my knife, a flashlight and some blessed oil (for religious purposes). All are small so they don't make my keychain too bulky. But I carry all of them where ever I go.
I've thought about a multitool, to replace my knife, but I just can't find one that I like that's small enough.
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Orbert pretty much nailed the pocket issue, which really isn't much of an issue anyway because we're talking about quantity and volume. I have the usual keys, wallet and phone. But when I go to and from work, I have a square shaped lunch tote with a shoulder strap to carry my headphones and some snack items. Not a purse and not much different than a backpack, but they all basically serve the same purpose. Not much of a mystery at all, male or female.
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For a while, the 80's or so, many guys carried "bags". Gym bag, duffel bag, whatever you might call it. "Fanny packs" were catching on around this time, too. I remember my buddy Mark always had his gym bag with him. Mark was a stoner, so he had his stash and some necessary gear, in addition to the obligatory wallet and keys, and he worked out so he usually had clothes or at least an extra shirt or something. It really was his gym bag, but let's face it; it was his purse.
Remember George Carlin's bit about purses?
"Hey, can you pass me my... bag?"
"Fuck you, it's a purse! If you can't say the word, don't carry the bag!"
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Ehh, I carry a small backpack with me everywhere except when I'm abroad/travelling. I can't fit everything in my pockets, which includes: my phone, my ID, subway/bus monthly pass, train monthly pass, work permit, a handkerchief, a "wallet" with all my cards in it, a pocket knife, a small bag with band-aids, pills against headache, pills against sudden shits (you never know), napkins, wet towel wipes (or w/e it's called), needle and a thread, I think I've missed something but ehh. I also usually carry a book there and my power bank and my headphones whenever I'm not listening to music.
I'm also bringing my own food to work so there's that too. I have no idea what I would do without a purse/backpack.
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I use a backpack every day for work since I have a work laptop that I live and die by, or for travel, but not for my daily roaming I may do.
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Can't do it for travel as it's small enough so not everything fits in there :lol
I've got a new backpack for my birthday that looks promising though, I may just start wearing it everywhere as it's just awesome.
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So.... just casual question, no implications, no waiting gotcha <Stadler whistling, casually> you guys aren't those people that forget their backpack is on and swing it like a wrecking ball behind you, are you? :)
Seriously, though: I took a trip to Atlanta last week and I must've seen like four people whack someone with their backpack without thinking. It's like a deadly weapon if you're not careful. :)
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There's times, in tight spaces with a full backpack where I turned and it might have hit someone. I say sorry and try not to do it, but it happens on trains for example.
My backbag is good size, a nice patagonia from work (given to me on my first day just about 6 years ago on the dot) that has been through it all and still fully intact and functional. Thing is a beast. I absolutely love it for travel and daily use to work. They updated the backpack they give new employees now, it's smaller, less functional, and looks uglier. I have one.. in my closet.
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No one is being offensive, and you don't need to tiptoe around anything, I'm just like... all these forum topics that come down to "man, women are from another planet, does anyone get them, for example, MY WIFE"... like, do you only socialize with your wives, and is that why you think women are an impenetrable hivemind, impossible to comprehend :P I don't have a black hole of a bag, but I always carry a backpack to fit extra clothes because that's what I need, and then I carry all the practical shit in it too. Some women carry a full makeup kit to their office job. I can't relate to that, but I understand why they need it, if you do wear makeup every day you need to do touch-ups, you're not gonna go out with a perfect face and let it go to shit during the day because you're too lazy to carry a bigger bag. On the other hand, I can totally relate to MirrorMask's backpack, and I have to add a needle and thread into my rotation.
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No one is being offensive, and you don't need to tiptoe around anything, I'm just like... all these forum topics that come down to "man, women are from another planet, does anyone get them, for example, MY WIFE"... like, do you only socialize with your wives, and is that why you think women are an impenetrable hivemind, impossible to comprehend :P I don't have a black hole of a bag, but I always carry a backpack to fit extra clothes because that's what I need, and then I carry all the practical shit in it too. Some women carry a full makeup kit to their office job. I can't relate to that, but I understand why they need it, if you do wear makeup every day you need to do touch-ups, you're not gonna go out with a perfect face and let it go to shit during the day because you're too lazy to carry a bigger bag. On the other hand, I can totally relate to MirrorMask's backpack, and I have to add a needle and thread into my rotation.
Speaking of stereotypes, this IS a prog-metal band forum, after all. I include myself in this, but some of us are DAMN lucky to even have that ONE woman with whom we associate. :) :) :)
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some of us are DAMN lucky to even have that ONE woman with whom we associate. :) :) :)
Definitely put me in this group!
And for the record, I was 90% kidding about my wife and her purse. It get why she carries it, but I also think it's silly.
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some of us are DAMN lucky to even have that ONE woman with whom we associate. :) :) :)
Definitely put me in this group!
And for the record, I was 90% kidding about my wife and her purse. It get why she carries it, but I also think it's silly.
Same.
My wife is my whole world.
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No one is being offensive, and you don't need to tiptoe around anything, I'm just like... all these forum topics that come down to "man, women are from another planet, does anyone get them, for example, MY WIFE"... like, do you only socialize with your wives, and is that why you think women are an impenetrable hivemind, impossible to comprehend :P I don't have a black hole of a bag, but I always carry a backpack to fit extra clothes because that's what I need, and then I carry all the practical shit in it too. Some women carry a full makeup kit to their office job. I can't relate to that, but I understand why they need it, if you do wear makeup every day you need to do touch-ups, you're not gonna go out with a perfect face and let it go to shit during the day because you're too lazy to carry a bigger bag. On the other hand, I can totally relate to MirrorMask's backpack, and I have to add a needle and thread into my rotation.
Speaking of stereotypes, this IS a prog-metal band forum, after all. I include myself in this, but some of us are DAMN lucky to even have that ONE woman with whom we associate. :) :) :)
:lol true
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Did you guys ever have a significant other that gave you crap about stuff that their previous partners had a problem with?
Like my ex's previous partner had a severe alcohol issue and it was a constant problem. I barely drink, but the moment I tried to have any drink suddenly they were all like "gasp, you are drinking?!" and making a big deal about it.
And it turned into a fight after me being held responsible for things that someone else did :P
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I can't say that I've ever had that happen to me, but I can sure see why she's now your ex. That's rough!
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Did you guys ever have a significant other that gave you crap about stuff that their previous partners had a problem with?
Like my ex's previous partner had a severe alcohol issue and it was a constant problem. I barely drink, but the moment I tried to have any drink suddenly they were all like "gasp, you are drinking?!" and making a big deal about it.
And it turned into a fight after me being held responsible for things that someone else did :P
Sure. Both wives to a degree; depending on the issue it's hard not to.
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yeah, and I don't think it's a big deal, honestly. I mean depending on the degree of course.
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If my wife had an issue with some guy in the past doing something, and I started doing the same thing, I wouldn't hold it against her if she raised the concern. Obviously there are ways to do this that make sense, and ways that don't. We're usually pretty good about talking about it. I don't think there's ever been a situation where "he used to do that, and it got out of control, so you must never do that". But if he used to do that and it turned out bad for some reason, I'd expect her to at least say something.
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Did you guys ever have a significant other that gave you crap about stuff that their previous partners had a problem with?
Like my ex's previous partner had a severe alcohol issue and it was a constant problem. I barely drink, but the moment I tried to have any drink suddenly they were all like "gasp, you are drinking?!" and making a big deal about it.
And it turned into a fight after me being held responsible for things that someone else did :P
Yes, and to be honest, I've unintentionally done the same to a previous gf. Hate to admit it, but it happened and I totally didn't mean it, but this type of thing can be engrained in your head and you don't realize the way you expressing it to your current SO until after the fact.
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I'm a practical guy. Scientific minded, logical thinking, all those horrible traits that come standard equipment with Asians. If the plusses outweigh the minuses, it's worth it. You try to maximize the ratio by "choosing" someone with whom you are compatible, therefore minimizing the the negatives while hopefully accentuating and taking advantage of the positives. But a marriage is two people, and there will be disagreements. It comes down to how you handle them. Also, unless you're a real prize and literally have multiple babes after you, you don't get to choose, which is why I put that in quotes. You play the game, live your life, and you end up with someone. Again, there are things you can do to possibly improve the odds of ending up with the "right" person, but there are no guarantees. Life is adventure.
I have been thinking about what you said here since you posted it. This is a point I really kinda disagree with and am wondering whether anyone agrees with me. In my view, one should choose singleness unless one finds that right person. I've been in long-term relationships with the "wrong" people--people that I had some degree of compatibility with, but for whatever reason weren't right with me (e.g., communication issues, lack of passion, lack of chemistry, lack of similar life goals). When I chose to "stick it out" and try to pretend to be really happy to be with them, resentment slowly crept in until I couldn't ignore it any longer. I can only imagine getting married to a generic "somebody", who might even be a responsible, good person. I would slowly die inside, lose motivation for life, and probably fail to live up to my potential. I really think you need to seek someone who you are really passionate about, someone who pushes all your buttons in the right way, someone who makes you feel like a boy. I really feel like Orbert's philosophy masquerades as hardened realism but in reality is just jaded bitterness and complacency. I don't want to say anything about Orbert himself--because you are such a chill guy, Orbert--but I buck up against this philosophy.
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I identify more with Orberts view than yours H2. In reality, most people's expectations and experience are on a spectrum, and probably include some from both of you (and others not mentioned). (To me) Orberts comes across as more pragmatic and realist, and yours as a bit more overy romantic, and a bit black & white.
Each person is different, and each person will have different goals, plans, expectations, experiences, and reactions. Whatever works for you really.
Orbert can have a more pragmatic approach, and have a massively rewarding marriage. Some can wait for what they want, and can end up with a massive failure of a marriage.
The point is that is is very difficult, if not impossible, to determine if a person is the "right" one unless you give it a go in a relationship. Date people, and if one starts to feel right, pursue it further...until it doesn't feel right. Just don't wait for a "perfect" fit, as perfect doesnt exist. Be aware that ANY relationship will have bumps, and will require work.
Love and life are unpredictable and messy...there are no guarantees either way you approach it. JMO
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I've been in long-term relationships with the "wrong" people--people that I had some degree of compatibility with, but for whatever reason weren't right with me (e.g., communication issues, lack of passion, lack of chemistry, lack of similar life goals). When I chose to "stick it out" and try to pretend to be really happy to be with them, resentment slowly crept in until I couldn't ignore it any longer. I can only imagine getting married to a generic "somebody", who might even be a responsible, good person. I would slowly die inside, lose motivation for life, and probably fail to live up to my potential. I really think you need to seek someone who you are really passionate about, someone who pushes all your buttons in the right way, someone who makes you feel like a boy. I really feel like Orbert's philosophy masquerades as hardened realism but in reality is just jaded bitterness and complacency.
A few things jumped out at me in your post after I replied.
1) If you are not happy in your relationship, sticking it out by "pretending" to be happy makes no sense, isn't being honest with the other person, and appears to show no desire to do any work to save the relationship. Not sure why you would think this is appropriate.
2) What does "generic" mean when describing another person? Are you saying Orbert and others just settle for a "generic", good and responsible person to settle down with? That is just silly. Everyone looks for attraction, passion, compatability, etc....it may just not be at the level you do....which from someone's point of view, might be considered unrealistic, perfectionist, and fairy tale...especially over the long term of a relationship.
3) You should not call Orberts view jaded bitterness and complacency, just because it differs from yours. Your views on love are just different. And being married for MANY years, with a view more like Orberts, I feel his relationship is far more likely to survive. People and relationships change over time...ALOT. Passion wanes, interests and attraction change, kids and stress come into play.....your romanticism will be challenged severely when all those things that had to line up for you romantically shift over the years. Knowing that the person and the relationship are no where near perfect, and never will be, is a lesson in reality, and that a LOT of work is required to keep the fire burning.
Maybe we can all take a bit of a lesson from you in that we should never "settle" for something that doesn't really work, especially if you feel your options are limited. Better to be single than in an unhealthy relationship. I think we can all agree with that. But I also think you would be well served to adopt a small bit of Orberts philosophy too....it will serve you well in the future, when the relationship loses some passion.
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Eric, I totally hear what you're saying, and hopefully you're not understanding me as saying I think we should all look for this perfect person that matches this overly romantic ideal.
2) What does "generic" mean when describing another person? Are you saying Orbert and others just settle for a "generic", good and responsible person to settle down with? That is just silly. Everyone looks for attraction, passion, compatability, etc....it may just not be at the level you do....which from someone's point of view, might be considered unrealistic, perfectionist, and fairy tale...especially over the long term of a relationship.
Orbert can correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard him as saying that you should just find someone that you kinda get along with that rides along with you in life, and yeah maybe that person isn't your first choice but "they'll do." That's the mentality I buck up against. It could be that I completely misinterpreted him.
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I agree wholeheartedly with everything in both of Eric's posts.
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Orbert can correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard him as saying that you should just find someone that you kinda get along with that rides along with you in life, and yeah maybe that person isn't your first choice but "they'll do." That's the mentality I buck up against. It could be that I completely misinterpreted him.
You definitely misinterpreted my meaning. It's much closer to what Eric is saying. There is no "perfect" match. Even if you seem to agree on everything, get along fine, are compatible socially, politically, sexually, everything, that will change, because people change. The odds of finding someone you're 100% happy with and will be for the next 50 years or however love you are together, are zero. I'm not saying that you settle for the first babe that seems alright. I'm saying that if you wait for the "perfect" match, you will die alone. Therefore, adjust your expectations.
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Orbert can correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard him as saying that you should just find someone that you kinda get along with that rides along with you in life, and yeah maybe that person isn't your first choice but "they'll do." That's the mentality I buck up against. It could be that I completely misinterpreted him.
You definitely misinterpreted my meaning. It's much closer to what Eric is saying. There is no "perfect" match. Even if you seem to agree on everything, get along fine, are compatible socially, politically, sexually, everything, that will change, because people change. The odds of finding someone you're 100% happy with and will be for the next 50 years or however love you are together, are zero. I'm not saying that you settle for the first babe that seems alright. I'm saying that if you wait for the "perfect" match, you will die alone. Therefore, adjust your expectations.
Ah, I see. Then it sounds like we are in an accord. :)
EDIT: Well....ugh, maybe we aren't in an accord. The one line from Orbert that really throws me off, just to clarify, is the "you don't get to choose unless you have multiple babes after you" bit. I guess I think that we're all roughly in the same boat, and we all do, in fact, get to choose.
"You play the game, live your life, and you end up with someone" -- This sounds so very passive and, yeah, I'd have to be really defeated to accept something like this. But perhaps I misunderstand Orbert's meaning?
Just to clarify my stance to see who agrees or disagrees with me. You do get to choose. If you're not in a position to choose, you're in a position to improve yourself to get to a point where you are in a position to choose. If you're out of shape and thereby can't score chicks you really like, you can get in shape. If you have a crappy job or live in a crappy state and can't score chicks you really like, you can get a better job and move to a different state. If you dress poorly and can't score fashionable chicks, you get make yourself fashionable to thereby score said chicks. Etc, etc..
Part of being responsible and living a full life is accepting that you do get to choose and you shouldn't let life make decisions for you. Hopefully that makes sense.
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I agree wholeheartedly with everything in both of Eric's posts.
I’m writing about this in my Diary.
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Yep. Marriage is not easy. It will always take work to keep it fulfilling. But the rewards are worth the effort. And there is no such thing as a perfect woman (or a perfect man).
You certainly don't need to settle. But you should also be realistic and being realistic is not settling it's just realizing your range of choices based on the kind of person you are.
Basically, if you're a fat slob, don't expect a supermodel. If you're a country bumpkin, don't expect a rocket scientist.
Dating a lot helped me figure out what my realistic range was.
And all of this is based on my own personal experience and is just my opinion. But, I do have a successful marriage so that may carry a little weight.
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Part of being responsible and living a full life is accepting that you do get to choose and you shouldn't let life make decisions for you. Hopefully that makes sense.
There are always choices, but there are also limits to what you can control and what you can't. Most of us can improve ourselves, sure. But how much do we invest in that? And at what point do we stop? (Edit: Actually, we should never stop trying to improve ourselves as persons, but know that this is only one of many factors in the big picture.)
There are some people who think I'm pretty cool (they've told me so; I swear I'm not making this up), some who might even consider me a prize, but I count them among the many I've fooled. I'm an asshole. It honestly amazes me that I ended up with someone who puts up with my shit, and will seemingly do so for as long as we're both alive. I had choices, sure. I could choose to marry the woman I'd been dating for seven years, or see if I can do better. I wasn't "settling" for her. If it's a given that there's no perfect match, but the one I was with came pretty damned close, then it didn't make sense not to propose. So it depends on how you look at it, I suppose. I had a choice, but in a sense, fate had also chosen for me, given me the choice in the first place.
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Thank God I married a woman who only loses it when I'm not pulling my weight around the house. I'm totally in the wrong. Though her tactics. lol
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This is an interesting conversation. I'll throw in my two cents.
As for choosing the right person: there's never going to be a perfect person obviously. My wife was great for me in many ways, but wrong in some other ways. It was actually good for me that I saw that early on. I tended to idealize women and ignore their flaws in the past, leading to relationships lasting way past their shelf life or me not being able to move on when they ended since they were "perfect" for me. Ultimately, getting married is a leap of faith. I don't regret getting married for more than a fleeting moment here and there. My wife is awesome, but it hasn't always been easy meshing both our expectations and the realities of life.
I am both a hopeless romantic and a pretty logically minded guy, the combination of which hasn't always meshed together in a useful way in my marriage. The one thing I've been learning here recently in my 13 years of marriage is that your expectations need to be constantly adjusting. Life changes, you change, your spouse changes, and holding everyone to the same expectations despite changing circumstances is a recipe for disappointment. As much as I wish my wife could revert to the 25 year old version of herself that I married, that ain't happening. And frankly, it's been a struggle to let go of my expectations for her that I clung to for far too long. Really, the only expectation you should have is that things are going to change!
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Orbert can correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard him as saying that you should just find someone that you kinda get along with that rides along with you in life, and yeah maybe that person isn't your first choice but "they'll do." That's the mentality I buck up against. It could be that I completely misinterpreted him.
You definitely misinterpreted my meaning. It's much closer to what Eric is saying. There is no "perfect" match. Even if you seem to agree on everything, get along fine, are compatible socially, politically, sexually, everything, that will change, because people change. The odds of finding someone you're 100% happy with and will be for the next 50 years or however love you are together, are zero. I'm not saying that you settle for the first babe that seems alright. I'm saying that if you wait for the "perfect" match, you will die alone. Therefore, adjust your expectations.
Ah, I see. Then it sounds like we are in an accord. :)
EDIT: Well....ugh, maybe we aren't in an accord. The one line from Orbert that really throws me off, just to clarify, is the "you don't get to choose unless you have multiple babes after you" bit. I guess I think that we're all roughly in the same boat, and we all do, in fact, get to choose.
"You play the game, live your life, and you end up with someone" -- This sounds so very passive and, yeah, I'd have to be really defeated to accept something like this. But perhaps I misunderstand Orbert's meaning?
Just to clarify my stance to see who agrees or disagrees with me. You do get to choose. If you're not in a position to choose, you're in a position to improve yourself to get to a point where you are in a position to choose. If you're out of shape and thereby can't score chicks you really like, you can get in shape. If you have a crappy job or live in a crappy state and can't score chicks you really like, you can get a better job and move to a different state. If you dress poorly and can't score fashionable chicks, you get make yourself fashionable to thereby score said chicks. Etc, etc..
Part of being responsible and living a full life is accepting that you do get to choose and you shouldn't let life make decisions for you. Hopefully that makes sense.
I'm REALLY not following that last sentence. I'm with you on the rest of the stuff - I'm a "tend your own garden" guy, for sure - but I extend that even to the notion of choice. Isn't it, ultimately, their choice to let life make their decisions for them? In a very real way, my going to law school (both the basic question of practicing law, and the details of my study) was life choosing for me. I am perfectly fine with that, no regrets and no concerns. And of all the things we talk about here, I am one of those people that feels blessed on a daily basis; to say I feel I've lived a full life is an understatement. With respect to 'responsibility', I would argue that being responsible is doing things when there IS no "passion" or driving need. Part of being "responsible" in a relationship is modeling your behavior to the expectations of the relationship. If your spouse values fidelity, being "responsible" is actually walking away from those moments that perhaps have "passion" but don't fit in the larger picture.
I generally push back on is this notion that everyone has to have "passion" to have meaning (and I would extend this to beyond relationships, to jobs, hobbies, etc.). I think "passion" is an entirely overblown concept in the context of happiness, satisfaction, and responsibility.
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Basically, if you're a fat slob, don't expect a supermodel. If you're a country bumpkin, don't expect a rocket scientist.
I am living proof that this is not accurate. :)
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Basically, if you're a fat slob, don't expect a supermodel. If you're a country bumpkin, don't expect a rocket scientist.
I am living proof that this is not accurate. :)
I mean, while I would agree that you're a supermodel rocket scientist, I would not be so quick to call your wife a fat slob country bumpkin. It's rude.
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I agree wholeheartedly with everything in both of Eric's posts.
I’m writing about this in my Diary.
If you don't, we are not a match.
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I generally push back on is this notion that everyone has to have "passion" to have meaning (and I would extend this to beyond relationships, to jobs, hobbies, etc.). I think "passion" is an entirely overblown concept in the context of happiness, satisfaction, and responsibility.
I do agree with quite a bit of what you said, Stadler. I want to clarify that I do not think passion is commensurate with meaning. I don't think I need that premise to ground what I said before?
Anyway, good discussion. I guess I am just an anti-complacency idealistic youngling. I think about opportunities I had to "settle down" (I hate that phrase) and I look at people my age who are "settling down", and many times I think it is the wrong call. The person could have achieved more, traveled more, gotten more education, moved somewhere better, etc. etc. but now life's obligations (usually family) has shackled them in place.
There's a message I heard on the radio a few years ago that has really stuck with me (and I won't say where I heard it, for fear of the advice being pre-emptively dismissed, because the radio guy is not exactly a model citizen great guy even I want to be). The advice went like this: Don't give up your dreams. First live out your dreams, achieve what you need to achieve, get settled in your career, make the sizable family-supporting income first, then find someone to share your life with. But not before, because the minute you settle down and start knocking out kids, the dream is dead. Give it up. (With rare exceptions--so rare that you cannot count on the off chance that you are one of the exceptions.) And boy, does that advice seem true when I look around at my friends' lives who didn't follow it.
I am a fairly young guy (28), but am open to being convinced I am wrong. But damn I am scared of giving up my dreams by making a complacent safe decision, a decision that life has made for me. Hopefully this shows you guys where I'm coming from.
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I generally push back on is this notion that everyone has to have "passion" to have meaning (and I would extend this to beyond relationships, to jobs, hobbies, etc.). I think "passion" is an entirely overblown concept in the context of happiness, satisfaction, and responsibility.
I do agree with quite a bit of what you said, Stadler. I want to clarify that I do not think passion is commensurate with meaning. I don't think I need that premise to ground what I said before?
Anyway, good discussion. I guess I am just an anti-complacency idealistic youngling. I think about opportunities I had to "settle down" (I hate that phrase) and I look at people my age who are "settling down", and many times I think it is the wrong call. The person could have achieved more, traveled more, gotten more education, moved somewhere better, etc. etc. but now life's obligations (usually family) has shackled them in place.
There's a message I heard on the radio a few years ago that has really stuck with me (and I won't say where I heard it, for fear of the advice being pre-emptively dismissed, because the radio guy is not exactly a model citizen great guy even I want to be). The advice went like this: Don't give up your dreams. First live out your dreams, achieve what you need to achieve, get settled in your career, make the sizable family-supporting income first, then find someone to share your life with. But not before, because the minute you settle down and start knocking out kids, the dream is dead. Give it up. (With rare exceptions--so rare that you cannot count on the off chance that you are one of the exceptions.) And boy, does that advice seem true when I look around at my friends' lives who didn't follow it.
I am a fairly young guy (28), but am open to being convinced I am wrong. But damn I am scared of giving up my dreams by making a complacent safe decision, a decision that life has made for me. Hopefully this shows you guys where I'm coming from.
I would say getting married doesn't necessarily kill the dream if you have a spouse willing to go along with you, but having kids definitely makes it more difficult. I have always thought that being married made it easier to take risks with my career because it wasn't all on me. My wife had an income as well, so if something doesn't pan out, I'm not out on the street. Dreams don't have to die when you have kids, it just becomes more difficult and demands more intentional effort to make them happen. And there's certainly more at risk if you fail.
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I'm sorry, but maybe I missed it. What exactly are the dreams that are killed off by having kids? Granted my dreams of driving a Lambo and fucking hot waitresses, in between my backpacking stints across Europe while creating a billion dollar company might be dead......but the love and dreams gained by having kids and a family kind of even that out. Plus the latter might be a tad easire to actually achieve.
So what dreams are actually killed by marrying and having kids?
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I'm sorry, but maybe I missed it. What exactly are the dreams that are killed off by having kids? Granted my dreams of driving a Lambo and fucking hot waitresses, in between my backpacking stints across Europe while creating a billion dollar company might be dead......but the love and dreams gained by having kids and a family kind of even that out. Plus the latter might be a tad easire to actually achieve.
So what dreams are actually killed by marrying and having kids?
I have a dream of living on the road full time in an RV. Having 3 kids makes this extremely difficult, but not impossible. But yeah, one of my dreams was getting married and having kids, so that was achieved. It depends greatly on what the dream is. The reality is, most people weren't going to achieve their dreams for any number of reasons whether they got married and had kids or not.
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There is some wisdom in what the radio guy said, and some that I disagree with.
When I was younger, I tended to think in a more linear fashion. Do this, then once you've achieved it, you're ready for the next step, which is this. When you get to a certain point, and only then, are you really prepared for that. I thought that the traditional path (go to school, get a good job, find a girl, marry her, live happily ever after) sounded good, and was fully prepared to follow that path.
Here's the problem. Life is not linear. There are always multiple things going on at once, multiple things affecting what you do today and will do tomorrow. Despite growing up believing in the traditional path as I understood it, by the time I was in my early 20's, I had completely abandoned it. I was in a band, we were going to be superstars, and I had no intention of finishing college, let alone finding some boring office job and making a paltry six figures. Clearly I was destined for greater things. Then the band broke up, every one of us had quit our day jobs and were suddenly not only broke but in debt and with no income, and most of us crawled back home to Mom and Dad. I'm just glad I had that option; not all of us did.
I returned to the kitchens. I'd been a pretty good line cook in a couple of different restaurants, and knew I could do it again, so I did. During the band years, I'd met a girl and we were still together, so that was cool. At some point, she suggested maybe taking a few classes at the community college. Not too expensive, and my parents even agreed to subsidize me. Fine, I took a few classes. Then a few more, because why not? To shorten the story a little bit, I ended up with a Bachelor's and a couple of Associate's plus a teaching certificate, and my first "real" (salaried) job was in a field I would not have even considered back in high school. Not only that, I enjoyed it and even turned out to be pretty good at it.
Anyway, the point is that life happens. I thought I had it figured out, but opportunities came up, so I left the path. That detour eventually ended, and I had to find another path. You can't plan everything; you can only choose what to do next when something unexpected (or even something expected) happens. She was with me the whole time, and I credit her for convincing me to go back to school. In that sense, she is as responsible for my success as I am. Yeah, I did all the work, but I wouldn't have done it, wouldn't have even considered it, had she not suggested taking a few classes at the community college.
"Don't give up on your dreams" sounds really good, until you realize that for most of us, they are exactly that: dreams. At some point, I realized that I was never going to be a rock star, or professional musician of any type. I probably could have worked my ass off, studied, practiced, studied, practiced, studied, and practiced some more, and maybe had some success. Or I could have done all that for years, and still end up like 99.9% of aspiring professional musicians, which is not being a professional musician. It made a hell of a lot more sense to do something else. Did I give up on my dreams? I guess you could say that. I prefer to see it as waking up.
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I'm sorry, but maybe I missed it. What exactly are the dreams that are killed off by having kids? Granted my dreams of driving a Lambo and fucking hot waitresses, in between my backpacking stints across Europe while creating a billion dollar company might be dead......but the love and dreams gained by having kids and a family kind of even that out. Plus the latter might be a tad easire to actually achieve.
So what dreams are actually killed by marrying and having kids?
I guess it depends on the person and the dreams in question. Maybe for people who never want to move away who have small dreams, it's not a problem. For me, I would like to work at a big tech company like Google, which necessitates first self-educating in computer science while working, then moving across the country from where I'm currently at to an expensive city where I'd like to (i) invest plenty of quality time into the work (50-60 hr/wk), (ii) have plenty of time to continue my education on the side (10-20 hr/wk), and (iii) live with roommates to drive COL down. Time and money are finite, and family puts a strain on both. If I had a family, it is likely that something in that equation would not work.
There are all sorts of ways a family would get in the way of achieving one's dream. For others, it could involve become a doctor, lawyer, banker, or actor. I looked into law as a possible career path at one point, and I know Big Law folks pour 80-100 hr/wk into their jobs. Can you justify that if you've got a family? Can you morally justify being away from your family for that long? And what if your spouse doesn't want to move to NYC? Or what if you could have afforded it if you were single, because you could put up with a crappy apartment for a few years, but now that you have kids, you've got to live in the suburbs and commute two hours to work every day? Or consider medicine, which is almost 10 years of incessantly being away from home at the hospital for med school and residency, plus moving from state to state until you land somewhere?
No family = you call 100% of the shots. You can unanimously decide what sacrifices you're going to make to get where you want to go. With a spouse, you've got to compromise with their job and their interests. With children, you've got a moral responsibility to be there for them and provide them a certain kind of lifestyle. You cannot fly if you have roots. I do think family can be a dream-killer.
Sorry, I'll get off my soap box. I just feel a need to respond when challenged.
EDIT: Orbert, it's helpful to see where you're coming from. I am glad things have turned out pretty well for you. I am sorry, but something in me just cannot accept what you say here:"Don't give up on your dreams" sounds really good, until you realize that for most of us, they are exactly that: dreams. At some point, I realized that I was never going to be a rock star, or professional musician of any type. I probably could have worked my ass off, studied, practiced, studied, practiced, studied, and practiced some more, and maybe had some success. Or I could have done all that for years, and still end up like 99.9% of aspiring professional musicians, which is not being a professional musician. It made a hell of a lot more sense to do something else. Did I give up on my dreams? I guess you could say that. I prefer to see it as waking up.
I think it's our fundamental point of disagreement.
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H2, I agree with you...if the plans you have are that narrow. if being successful in X career that takes all your time and energy is your dream....more power to you. Just do yourself a favor and listen to the advice from some old fogeys that have been there.
1) First.... I say go for your dreams 100% That being said....
2) Life gets in the way, and many do not achieve certain lofty career goals for a variety of reasons. Be ready to adapt.
3) Many of those career successful people are incredibly unhappy and lonely with their one dimensional lives. Don't be surprised if reaching those goals leaves you unfulfilled. Not saying that will happen to you, but it easily can....be ready to adapt.
4) Balance and variety in life can't be overstated. There are many other loves, goal, dreams, and aspirations you will come across in your life. Don't deny them, embrace them, and try to find some balance where you can feel fulfilled with success in many areas of life. Adapt.
5) Shit goes sideways. Careers become obsolete. You can have health issues. You can fall in love, and out of love. Be ready to adapt.
6) Learn to Adapt.
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I agree wholeheartedly with everything in both of Eric's posts.
I haven't been able to accurately process anything in this thread since reading this.
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H2, I agree with you...if the plans you have are that narrow. if being successful in X career that takes all your time and energy is your dream....more power to you. Just do yourself a favor and listen to the advice from some old fogeys that have been there.
1) First.... I say go for your dreams 100% That being said....
2) Life gets in the way, and many do not achieve certain lofty career goals for a variety of reasons. Be ready to adapt.
3) Many of those career successful people are incredibly unhappy and lonely with their one dimensional lives. Don't be surprised if reaching those goals leaves you unfulfilled. Not saying that will happen to you, but it easily can....be ready to adapt.
4) Balance and variety in life can't be overstated. There are many other loves, goal, dreams, and aspirations you will come across in your life. Don't deny them, embrace them, and try to find some balance where you can feel fulfilled with success in many areas of life. Adapt.
5) Shit goes sideways. Careers become obsolete. You can have health issues. You can fall in love, and out of love. Be ready to adapt.
6) Learn to Adapt.
Couldn't have said it better myself. My dreams have changed multiple times depending on what stage of life I'm in. But I can say this, even though my dreams have changed and some have certainly gone unfulfilled, I wouldn't change my life journey for anything. including all the bumps along the way.
20 years ago, I would have never guessed that I would become an IT guy, married with 7 children. I also wouldn't have guessed that I would become legally blind and beat a 20 year long battle with depression.
I wanted to own my own business. It never worked out.
I wanted to be an architect. It never worked out.
I wanted to visit Jerusalem. I did that one.
I wanted to get married. I did that one.
I wanted to have kids. I did that one.
I wanted to run for local office. And I'm still working on that one.
H2, I think this is all folks here are trying to say. Have your dreams, that is a really good thing. But just be OK if some of them change along the way.
All I really want now is to live a happy life, grow old with my woman, enjoy grand kids someday, all the while listening to Dream Theater. Enjoy the journey man! :corn
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Basically, if you're a fat slob, don't expect a supermodel. If you're a country bumpkin, don't expect a rocket scientist.
I am living proof that this is not accurate. :)
I mean, while I would agree that you're a supermodel rocket scientist, I would not be so quick to call your wife a fat slob country bumpkin. It's rude.
She's not here, though. So it didn't happen.
Right? Right?
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I agree wholeheartedly with everything in both of Eric's posts.
I haven't been able to accurately process anything in this thread since reading this.
It just proves you can be married and have kids and still reach your loftiest of goals.
Married with kids - check.
Bosk1’s approval - check.
Banging hot waitresses in my Lambo - temporarily on hold.
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Praying for you, pal. :tup
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Praying for you, pal. :tup
Is one allowed to pray that I get to bang hot babes in a Lambo?
Thank you, your support is appreciated.
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I generally push back on is this notion that everyone has to have "passion" to have meaning (and I would extend this to beyond relationships, to jobs, hobbies, etc.). I think "passion" is an entirely overblown concept in the context of happiness, satisfaction, and responsibility.
I do agree with quite a bit of what you said, Stadler. I want to clarify that I do not think passion is commensurate with meaning. I don't think I need that premise to ground what I said before?
Anyway, good discussion. I guess I am just an anti-complacency idealistic youngling. I think about opportunities I had to "settle down" (I hate that phrase) and I look at people my age who are "settling down", and many times I think it is the wrong call. The person could have achieved more, traveled more, gotten more education, moved somewhere better, etc. etc. but now life's obligations (usually family) has shackled them in place.
Here's the breakdown, though. This is all a subjective value judgement. I have - as I said before - been blessed. I've done both. I have the means to do more of those former things. I get FAR more enjoyment now out of what I bring to and/or get out of family. I'm not dead, I'm not out to pasture, and there's things I want to see (Egypt, Eastern Europe) but I don't at all see "settling down" as "settling down", but rather shifting priorities, and that's never a bad thing. That's GROWTH in my view.
There's a message I heard on the radio a few years ago that has really stuck with me (and I won't say where I heard it, for fear of the advice being pre-emptively dismissed, because the radio guy is not exactly a model citizen great guy even I want to be). The advice went like this: Don't give up your dreams. First live out your dreams, achieve what you need to achieve, get settled in your career, make the sizable family-supporting income first, then find someone to share your life with. But not before, because the minute you settle down and start knocking out kids, the dream is dead. Give it up. (With rare exceptions--so rare that you cannot count on the off chance that you are one of the exceptions.) And boy, does that advice seem true when I look around at my friends' lives who didn't follow it.
Man plans, and God laughs. That's all I can say to that. If that worked for that guy, so be it, but there are no rules. My wife got pregnant at 18, and at this point she's living her best life (more or less; man plans, god laughs). Sure, some things are easier/better when you're single, but other things are easier/better when you're in a committed relationship. Pick your lane.
I am a fairly young guy (28), but am open to being convinced I am wrong. But damn I am scared of giving up my dreams by making a complacent safe decision, a decision that life has made for me. Hopefully this shows you guys where I'm coming from.
To paraphrase Yoda, there is no wrong, only open mind. I fully get where you're coming from and would never tell you you're wrong. If that's your strategy, stick with it, just know there's no right answer, only the answer that's right FOR YOU.
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I'm sorry, but maybe I missed it. What exactly are the dreams that are killed off by having kids? Granted my dreams of driving a Lambo and fucking hot waitresses, in between my backpacking stints across Europe while creating a billion dollar company might be dead......but the love and dreams gained by having kids and a family kind of even that out. Plus the latter might be a tad easire to actually achieve.
So what dreams are actually killed by marrying and having kids?
I guess it depends on the person and the dreams in question. Maybe for people who never want to move away who have small dreams, it's not a problem. For me, I would like to work at a big tech company like Google, which necessitates first self-educating in computer science while working, then moving across the country from where I'm currently at to an expensive city where I'd like to (i) invest plenty of quality time into the work (50-60 hr/wk), (ii) have plenty of time to continue my education on the side (10-20 hr/wk), and (iii) live with roommates to drive COL down. Time and money are finite, and family puts a strain on both. If I had a family, it is likely that something in that equation would not work.
There are all sorts of ways a family would get in the way of achieving one's dream. For others, it could involve become a doctor, lawyer, banker, or actor. I looked into law as a possible career path at one point, and I know Big Law folks pour 80-100 hr/wk into their jobs. Can you justify that if you've got a family? Can you morally justify being away from your family for that long? And what if your spouse doesn't want to move to NYC? Or what if you could have afforded it if you were single, because you could put up with a crappy apartment for a few years, but now that you have kids, you've got to live in the suburbs and commute two hours to work every day? Or consider medicine, which is almost 10 years of incessantly being away from home at the hospital for med school and residency, plus moving from state to state until you land somewhere?
No family = you call 100% of the shots. You can unanimously decide what sacrifices you're going to make to get where you want to go. With a spouse, you've got to compromise with their job and their interests. With children, you've got a moral responsibility to be there for them and provide them a certain kind of lifestyle. You cannot fly if you have roots. I do think family can be a dream-killer.
Sorry, I'll get off my soap box. I just feel a need to respond when challenged.
EDIT: Orbert, it's helpful to see where you're coming from. I am glad things have turned out pretty well for you. I am sorry, but something in me just cannot accept what you say here:"Don't give up on your dreams" sounds really good, until you realize that for most of us, they are exactly that: dreams. At some point, I realized that I was never going to be a rock star, or professional musician of any type. I probably could have worked my ass off, studied, practiced, studied, practiced, studied, and practiced some more, and maybe had some success. Or I could have done all that for years, and still end up like 99.9% of aspiring professional musicians, which is not being a professional musician. It made a hell of a lot more sense to do something else. Did I give up on my dreams? I guess you could say that. I prefer to see it as waking up.
I think it's our fundamental point of disagreement.
First, it might be more helpful to call them "goals" than "dreams", for reasons related to Orbert's post. But second, you're talking CHOICES. Ask President Obama if "family got in the way". Jack Welch. Sammy Hagar. Mike Portnoy.
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Praying for you, pal. :tup
Is one allowed to pray that I get to bang hot babes in a Lambo?
Thank you, your support is appreciated.
:rollin
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Praying for you, pal. :tup
Is one allowed to pray that I get to bang hot babes in a Lambo?
Thank you, your support is appreciated.
If Hef had this power I would have laid both hands on him and prayed to the all mighty.
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Praying for you, pal. :tup
Is one allowed to pray that I get to bang hot babes in a Lambo?
Thank you, your support is appreciated.
I got you fam
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It looks like this is turning into a good ol' fashioned religious revival!
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It looks like this is turning into a good ol' fashioned religious revival. Let's erect a tent, grab some oil and start laying hands on everyone!
You want to......Erect.....grab oil.....lay hands.....
I’m out.
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(https://i.imgur.com/7QVdNbH.gif)
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It looks like this is turning into a good ol' fashioned religious revival. Let's erect a tent, grab some oil and start laying hands on everyone!
You want to......Erect.....grab oil.....lay hands.....
I’m out.
Yeah... I decided to just take that part out of my post and pretend it never happened.
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I agree wholeheartedly with everything in both of Eric's posts.
I haven't been able to accurately process anything in this thread since reading this.
It just proves you can be married and have kids and still reach your loftiest of goals.
Married with kids - check.
Bosk1’s approval - check.
Banging hot waitresses in my Lambo - temporarily on hold.
Most of my lofty goals have already been achieved.
Not married - check
No future ex-wife - check
No kids - check
No alimony or child support payments - check
Unborn kids contributing to early retirement fund - check and ongoing
They're good kids - check
:neverusethis:
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Most of my lofty goals have already been achieved.
Not married - check
No future ex-wife - check
No kids - check
No alimony or child support payments - check
Unborn kids contributing to early retirement fund - check and ongoing
They're good kids - check
:neverusethis:
:lol
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Most of my lofty goals have already been achieved.
Not married - check
No future ex-wife - check
No kids - check
No alimony or child support payments - check
Unborn kids contributing to early retirement fund - check and ongoing
They're good kids - check
:neverusethis:
:lol
:lol I've got all those check marks as well although 10 years ago I expected to be married with kids, so back to that point about dreams and adapting them over time... I feel I once not only wanted but expected to build a family. At 35, I feel pretty happy actually that I haven't settled down because I am living more freely now than I ever had before and honestly, I have a lot of fun with that freedom. Eventually I think my dreams will need to adapt again and eventually I will settle down, but I kind of don't have that goal at all anymore. If it happens, it happens, but no point in forcing that and therefore making it some sort of achievement.
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I'll be 54 in May so I've past the point of no return. My gf just turned 55 and she has 2 grown kids with families of their own. I haven't completely ruled out marriage, but at this point I'm so set in my ways that it is highly unlikely.
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I'll be 54 in May so I've past the point of no return. My gf just turned 55 and she has 2 grown kids with families of their own. I haven't completely ruled out marriage, but at this point I'm so set in my ways that it is highly unlikely.
That's why I shared my anecdote about my co-workers Gene and Rick. Both well into their 40's when I met them, I think Rick and Julie got married when we were all past 50. Julie has adult kids, Rick had never been married, but for whatever reason, after years of being together, they decided to go for it. You never know.
It's fine to have a plan, have goals, dreams, whatever you want to call them. I'm just saying that as time goes on and life happens, those can and will change, because you yourself will change over time. Sticking to the plan sounds great, but don't rule things out because they don't fit your idea of what you thought you wanted. You could miss out on things that ultimately would have made your life better, more enjoyable, etc. And by "you" I mean people in general.
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Regarding the tale of not being told the time to leave. It seems clear The Womang doesn't know how to plan ahead of time. I think The Mang should stop asking her and take it upon himself to do the planning. Yeah it's annoying if it's an event that The Womang wants to do and The Mang doesn't really want to, but it is what it is. Why make it more difficult?
If you are familiar with the area you live in, then you should be able to make an estimate of what traffic conditions are like during that time of day and how far the two destinations are from each other. Use Google Maps or whatever if it's a place you've never been to. Google Maps can give you an estimated time of how long it'll take to get there.
Honestly, it sounds like both Mang and Womang don't know how to plan ahead. If The Mang is unable or unwilling to choose a time to leave then next time this happens just tell The Womang to let you know when it's time to get ready to leave.
Regarding the inability to give a straight-up fucking answer to a straight-up fucking question: I got nothing. It's annoying. Don't know why they do it.
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I know how to plan ahead, and I know how to use Google Maps. There is very little I ever do without a plan in place. That's why I was putting the plan together, for an event I knew we were going to later that day. But she's the one who knew where the place is, and also all the details about the secondary stop we had to make on the way. Google Maps cannot help me if all she's told me is that it's by the grocery store and I don't remember the name, or any details about the other stop. It was my attempts to get that information from her, so I could complete the plan, that was so damned frustrating.
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I know how to plan ahead, and I know how to use Google Maps. There is very little I ever do without a plan in place. That's why I was putting the plan together, for an event I knew we were going to later that day. But she's the one who knew where the place is, and also all the details about the secondary stop we had to make on the way. Google Maps cannot help me if all she's told me is that it's by the grocery store and I don't remember the name, or any details about the other stop. It was my attempts to get that information from her, so I could complete the plan, that was so damned frustrating.
Ah I missed that part. Sorry. Well then, if she refuses to tell you where the place is or the name of the place then there is not much you can do. I'd stick with, "Let me know when you want me to get ready to leave".
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Such easy solutions to us meng don't typically apply to womeng, hence the thread.
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Such easy solutions to us meng don't typically apply to womeng, hence the thread.
I've had success with that strategy. I guess the correct thing to do would be to talk and find out why the problem exists in the first place.
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Talk?? To a woman??
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Talk?? To a woman??
Yeah. Don't they like talking about feelings and shit?
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Talk?? To a woman??
Yeah. Don't they like talking about feelings and shit?
Feelings yes, logic no :facepalm:
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Talk?? To a woman??
Yeah. Don't they like talking about feelings and shit?
Feelings yes, logic no :facepalm:
Logic? This Is SPARTAAA!
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The good thing about being in the doghouse is that it’s incredibly quiet in here.
2 days of silence and counting. :-\
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The good thing about being in the doghouse is that it’s incredibly quiet in here.
2 days of silence and counting. :-\
Ouch!! What'd ya do, brains?
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Yeah, that's not good.
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The good thing about being in the doghouse is that it’s incredibly quiet in here.
2 days of silence and counting. :-\
[/quote
Uh oh.
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The good thing about being in the doghouse is that it’s incredibly quiet in here.
2 days of silence and counting. :-\
Ouch!! What'd ya do, brains?
There’s a task that needs to be done around here that involves making a phone call as the next step. Mrs.jingle has been taking the lead on this task, and as we were talking about it Wednesday night, I simply said “I’ll leave that to you”. That lit the powder keg. Not our biggest argument ever - not even close. But it’s clearly triggered something.
:dunno:
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The good thing about being in the doghouse is that it’s incredibly quiet in here.
2 days of silence and counting. :-\
Ouch!! What'd ya do, brains?
There’s a task that needs to be done around here that involves making a phone call as the next step. Mrs.jingle has been taking the lead on this task, and as we were talking about it Wednesday night, I simply said “I’ll leave that to you”. That lit the powder keg. Not our biggest argument ever - not even close. But it’s clearly triggered something.
:dunno:
I'm sorry Jingle Boy. I really hope you are able to get it resolved soon. That doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun.
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The good thing about being in the doghouse is that it’s incredibly quiet in here.
2 days of silence and counting. :-\
Ouch!! What'd ya do, brains?
There’s a task that needs to be done around here that involves making a phone call as the next step. Mrs.jingle has been taking the lead on this task, and as we were talking about it Wednesday night, I simply said “I’ll leave that to you”. That lit the powder keg. Not our biggest argument ever - not even close. But it’s clearly triggered something.
:dunno:
Didn't have anything to do with a certain Keto book did it?
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Haha. But no.
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The good thing about being in the doghouse is that it’s incredibly quiet in here.
2 days of silence and counting. :-\
2 whole days!? You lucky bastard.
I'm guessing you didn't go through with the keto birthday book?
Jokes aside, I've never had more than like 2 minutes of silence let alone 2 fucking days. We can't help but to yell at each other until we calm oursevles down and admit were both wrong somewhat and realise how much energy we just wasted yelling and move the fuck on.
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It's amazing how much we're shaped by our childhood. This is the MO her parents had - and they argued a lot. jingle.mother-in-law would give people the silent treatment when she was mad/upset/bothered etc... for days at a time. So, this is how mrs.jingle plays things. She's easily agitated over things I would consider minor, which can then often turn the proverbial mole hill into a mountain. When arguments get real big/bad, then there's the silent treatment. Literally. She had to tell me something, and wrote me a note.
She's still pissed. We had meatloaf for dinner last night, and I was going to pour the little bit of grease in the pan down the drain (chased by hot water naturally). I got chastised for not disposing it in a grease can and that I "should know better".
All because of a topic that she was in charge of, and I simply reiterated that I figured she was taking the next step on the task at hand.
As for the Keto book, that's another (long) story. Wasn't a bad outcome, but it was a confusing one.
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It's amazing how much we're shaped by our childhood. This is the MO her parents had - and they argued a lot. jingle.mother-in-law would give people the silent treatment when she was mad/upset/bothered etc... for days at a time. So, this is how mrs.jingle plays things. She's easily agitated over things I would consider minor, which can then often turn the proverbial mole hill into a mountain. When arguments get real big/bad, then there's the silent treatment. Literally. She had to tell me something, and wrote me a note.
She's still pissed. We had meatloaf for dinner last night, and I was going to pour the little bit of grease in the pan down the drain (chased by hot water naturally). I got chastised for not disposing it in a grease can and that I "should know better".
All because of a topic that she was in charge of, and I simply reiterated that I figured she was taking the next step on the task at hand.
As for the Keto book, that's another (long) story. Wasn't a bad outcome, but it was a confusing one.
Fucking wow on that first point mate!
And that second point, sorry but that's not on for me. Fighting is one thing but being spoken too like you are a child and basically told you're stupid is just not cool. I don't know what advice I can give as I've never really experienced the silent treatment.
Maybe just go along with it, say 'fuck it' I'll be silent too. Maybe don't even bother trying mate. But I know if that's was me, I'd tell her to 'pull her head out of her ass and grow the fuck up and move on with life.' That would result in the yelling I was talking about which would then build the bridge to move on but I guess that wouldn't really work for your situation mate. I'd just go along and enjoy the silence maybe.
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Maybe just go along with it, say 'fuck it' I'll be silent too.
This is exactly it.
I'm being as patient as possible, because there are a handful of other physical and mental ailments going on with her at the moment (and ongoing). Add on to it that this is completely normal to her - she doesn't know any different / better. The post wasn't meant to bitch/whine/moan/complain about her/our marriage, but rather to be on topic - women make no sense sometimes.
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My last Ex was ALL about the silent treatment, but I came to realize there was nothing conscious about it. It wasn't like "he did x or y so therefore I shall be silent and miserable". It was more of like a knee jerk reaction.
I remember asking her one time "do you even know what your mad about?" and there was no answer. She literally didn't even know, lol.
I'll totally admit I screwed up at times, but most of the time she just felt like I did something, when really I did nothing intentionally. She felt I did, so therefore I did. And now we are fighting, again and again and again.
It was truly exhausting. I strait up told her "when you shut down, that just makes it 100% worse, please just try and express what you feel and we can talk about it, but the silence it just making me anxious and worried and upset"
She seemed to get my point, but by that point there was no saving that relationship
And the one time I tried to give her silent treatment, she pretty much had a mental breakdown with being ignored. It didn't work at all. There were no revelations like "wow, this really sucks and I shouldn't do it to him", it just turned into a massive fight. So that didn't work :P
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I'll totally admit I screwed up at times, but most of the time she just felt like I did something, when really I did nothing intentionally. She felt I did, so therefore I did. And now we are fighting, again and again and again.
Don't get me started. Sure, I screw up frequently enough, but part of the mental ailments I referenced is that she truly confuses facts with feelings. She'll *constantly* say "I feel <something>" but that something is a fact or event, or worse yet ... an opinion. And during an arguments, once she starts to get agitated/upset/bothered, she listens for feelings, not for facts, and then can never come off of that feeling even when the facts don't support how she feels. I'm not sure if this is making any sense.
Something like "I feel like you don't know how to wash the dishes". Uhh.... that's not a feeling. That's an opinion. "I feel like I'm doing most of the chores". Again, not a feeling. "I feel like I'm always the one doing the grocery shopping". Whether the statement is accurate or not, THAT'S NOT A FEELING!!!
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In her defense she is right about one thing, you shouldn't be pouring that grease down the drain :lol
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In her defense she is right about one thing, you shouldn't be pouring that grease down the drain :lol
True, but it was the equivalent of about 2 tbsp... and it was how she pointed it out that was my beef - not just because she pointed it out at all.
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In her defense she is right about one thing, you shouldn't be pouring that grease down the drain :lol
Don't show her this post Chad, or else you're fucked. :lol
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I had a girlfriend once who gave me the silent treatment for several days. I could not figure out what I had done wrong. And when I was finally able to pry it out of her it ended up being a complete misunderstanding. :facepalm:
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The important part of the silent treatment is to just enjoy it while it lasts. :P
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I had a girlfriend once who gave me the silent treatment for several days. I could not figure out what I had done wrong. And when I was finally able to pry it out of her it ended up being a complete misunderstanding. :facepalm:
That's the part I've never understood about the silent treatment. There's a problem, but it can never be discussed and therefore resolved because one of the two persons involves refuses to talk. Apparently there's something the other person is expected to say or do to break the magic spell, but the only person who knows what that is isn't talking. Completely fucking pointless. Why would anyone think that this is the proper way to address the problem?
And yeah, any time she thinks this is a "punishment" and he just enjoys the silence, I laugh.
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In her defense she is right about one thing, you shouldn't be pouring that grease down the drain :lol
True, but it was the equivalent of about 2 tbsp... and it was how she pointed it out that was my beef - not just because she pointed it out at all.
You've pointed out what I don't understand at all, the adversarial stance I keep hearing about from couples. I've never once thought (with Mrs. P or the previous spouces), 'I'm going to point out your mistake and berate you for it.' See my thought would be, 'When she's done there at the sink, I'll run some extra hot water for a while to flush down that grease.' Shrug.
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@ Gregg (and others)... to my previous point, it's largely a function of the dysfunctional household from her upbringing. For the most part, this isn't how she acts/behaves/talks, but every so often, we revert back to bad habits - around things where good habits that were never properly shown or taught to us. Lord knows I have more than a handful of those as well.
Sometimes, our emotions control us, instead of the other way around.
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Yeah, sorry, Chad. I realize after rereading my post that it sounds like I'm criticizing your situation. I actually meant to point out that in my daily life I hear coworkers, golf partners, customers, vendors, etc., often mention a mild adversarial situation with their spouses. A great deal of the time folks are just laughing it off as part of the deal/charm of being a couple. Sometimes they mention it with a great deal of frustration. It's unfortunate, and I don't really get it. But then, I don't have to. :)
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Maybe just go along with it, say 'fuck it' I'll be silent too.
This is exactly it.
I'm being as patient as possible, because there are a handful of other physical and mental ailments going on with her at the moment (and ongoing). Add on to it that this is completely normal to her - she doesn't know any different / better. The post wasn't meant to bitch/whine/moan/complain about her/our marriage, but rather to be on topic - women make no sense sometimes.
I empathize with that first sentence (of the second paragraph). We've got some things we have to work on, some things we have to talk through. Couple the fact that - as Jingle says - her comfort zone is not talking (I don't mean "the silent treatment", just when it comes to deeper feelings, she's very quiet and passive) with the fact that she's really struggling with a shoulder injury from a car accident (surgery in a month or so) and it makes it very hard. I have, in the past, been able to push her - gently, and of course metaphorically - to talk about hard things, but with the suffering she's going through (sleep is almost an impossibility) it makes it extremely frustrating.
I'm getting good at Injustice on the PS3, though. And I've made progress on the project Jeep in the garage! :) :) :)
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Stads, our situations are incredibly similar - mrs.jingle doesn't sleep worth shit for back pain and/or muscle spasms.
And I remind myself that sleep deprivation is a form of torture. I know the few times I've had trouble sleeping - or just a lackthereof - the next day is gruelling. I couldn't imagine that being almost everyday.
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I used to give my x-fiance the silent treatment at times. We were very disfunctional with arguments. She liked to yell and I'd rather not raise my voice. If something was wrong, I'd get berated and therefore give the silent treatment until both of us were calm enough to talk about it. Deep down, I often enjoyed the silent treatment time because it let me get some "time off from us" and honestly, that was never a healthy relationship and one of many reasons why it didn't work out.
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Well, so much for the silent treatment. It was nice while it lasted.
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Well, so much for the silent treatment. It was nice while it lasted.
Was that the screaming I heard here in CT? (I kid, and with respect; I should know better than to bust on someone's marriage).
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Well, so much for the silent treatment. It was nice while it lasted.
Sounds like you need to put on your goalie equipment.
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Well, so much for the silent treatment. It was nice while it lasted.
Was that the screaming I heard here in CT? (I kid, and with respect; I should know better than to bust on someone's marriage).
It very well might have been.
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Well, so much for the silent treatment. It was nice while it lasted.
Was that the screaming I heard here in CT? (I kid, and with respect; I should know better than to bust on someone's marriage).
It very well might have been.
Ouch dude. So she's turned from silence to screaming now?
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Well, so much for the silent treatment. It was nice while it lasted.
Was that the screaming I heard here in CT? (I kid, and with respect; I should know better than to bust on someone's marriage).
It very well might have been.
Ouch dude. So she's turned from silence to screaming now?
As I said, arguing and yelling at one another is normal for her based on her upbringing. It's been a long time since we've had an argument this bad... all stemming from a misunderstanding / misperception on something rather trivial. But, that was the spark to the powder keg. There's always something else going on underneath... not sure we've got to the root cause just yet.
@ folks like Gregg and King... you have my envy to have such patient
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@ folks like Gregg and King... you have my envy to have such patient
Don't envy me.
I don't have near as good of a Scotch collection as you. :lol
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Well, so much for the silent treatment. It was nice while it lasted.
Was that the screaming I heard here in CT? (I kid, and with respect; I should know better than to bust on someone's marriage).
It very well might have been.
Ouch dude. So she's turned from silence to screaming now?
As I said, arguing and yelling at one another is normal for her based on her upbringing. It's been a long time since we've had an argument this bad... all stemming from a misunderstanding / misperception on something rather trivial. But, that was the spark to the powder keg. There's always something else going on underneath... not sure we've got to the root cause just yet.
@ folks like Gregg and King... you have my envy to have such patient
Yeah wow mate. I think it's normal though for all women. I know if I get yelled at for something stupid, there's always something deep beneath the surface that it stems from. Finding out what it is though is like playing the Amazing Race sometimes. I've gotten pretty good though and she after a long time can somewhat easily recognize there's always something else going on.
I think your wife needs to really somehow focus on what these underlying issues are and tackle them as opposed to surpressing them and you copping the wrath and deflection of it. Easier said than done. Took me a long time to ask, 'what's really the issue here?' to get to the point and resolve and move on. Asking that question use to just end in a heavier asault but things are better now. I'm not sure what else you can do mate. Keep probing? Make her more uncomfortable asking until she cracks? Sounds like with her history and what you've told me in the past you're forever on the back foot you poor bastard.
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Well in my relationship with Lisa I am usually at fault. I admit it. It's how she goes about it that pisses me off.
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I think your wife needs to really somehow focus on what these underlying issues are and tackle them as opposed to surpressing them and you copping the wrath and deflection of it. Easier said than done. Took me a long time to ask, 'what's really the issue here?' to get to the point and resolve and move on. Asking that question use to just end in a heavier asault but things are better now. I'm not sure what else you can do mate. Keep probing? Make her more uncomfortable asking until she cracks? Sounds like with her history and what you've told me in the past you're forever on the back foot you poor bastard.
i'm not suggesting that all women are like this, or that all men are like something else, but for me, most of my serious relationships were this way: if there was some disagreement that went beyond a simple "hey, let's talk about this for a second" then there was usually something else going on. Figuring that out is the trick, isn't it?
As for "what we're used to", if there's one thing I've found is that the expression "we're the sum of our experiences" has a lot of truth, and that works both ways (and includes me). I know in my therapy, it's amazing how often things from the distant past come up.
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I used to give my x-fiance the silent treatment at times. We were very disfunctional with arguments. She liked to yell and I'd rather not raise my voice. If something was wrong, I'd get berated and therefore give the silent treatment until both of us were calm enough to talk about it. Deep down, I often enjoyed the silent treatment time because it let me get some "time off from us" and honestly, that was never a healthy relationship and one of many reasons why it didn't work out.
My wife is super quick to react and get pissed. I'm the same way, I'll usually say I can't talk right now and go to the office or do something else. After a few hours things have calmed down enough that she and I can attempt to talk it out.
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The girl who broke up with me 10 months ago, reached out to me yesterday asking if there was a way we could talk and maybe work things out :facepalm:
hard pass
yup, "women I have no f*$%ing idea"
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The girl who broke up with me 10 months ago, reached out to me yesterday asking if there was a way we could talk and maybe work things out :facepalm:
hard pass
yup, "women I have no f*$%ing idea"
Yeah, I have no idea how I would respond to something like that. Trust is a huge issue for me, and I suspect with you as well. I'm sure I'd find a way to be polite, but it would be very difficult.
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The girl who broke up with me 10 months ago, reached out to me yesterday asking if there was a way we could talk and maybe work things out :facepalm:
hard pass
yup, "women I have no f*$%ing idea"
(https://i.imgur.com/aKJ6Dx6.gif)
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It's how she goes about it that pisses me off.
This started a lot of fights. She would say stuff like "why are you so pissy" in a really biting and non-supportive way. Which in turn made feel like she didn't give a shit about me or what might be bothering me, it was just like (oh you are pissy, so that is that is ruining my day). All I wanted to hear was "are you ok or is something wrong" instead of "WHY you so pissy".
Or the way she would talk about the father of her kids: "Oh I felt like I had THREE kids I was raising" attacking his masculinity and demeaning him.
She told me a million times she didn't like How I talked to her vs what I said, but then five mins later, she is doing it to me. Screw that.
How something is said is super important.
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The girl who broke up with me 10 months ago, reached out to me yesterday asking if there was a way we could talk and maybe work things out :facepalm:
hard pass
yup, "women I have no f*$%ing idea"
Yeah, I have no idea how I would respond to something like that. Trust is a huge issue for me, and I suspect with you as well. I'm sure I'd find a way to be polite, but it would be very difficult.
I thought I was fairly polite yet firm in my response on not wanting to have a conversation, but she took one small part of it and blew it up about how she was right all along to break up with me :rollin you can't make this shit up, I only sent that one response so I don't plan on sending anymore but she really just exposed herself with all that while I'm over here 45 lbs lighter with a new girl :hat Funny how this also times well with me posting some pictures of myself on IG (where she reached out to me).
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^^^ I always dreaded my ex fiancee trying to get back in contact with me. Its been years and I haven't had to deal with it at all luckily.
The big difference with me is I don't do any social media. So she has zero idea that I am in better shape, stronger and constantly pursuing goals and hobbies, and am way happier.
Probably for the best
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Sorry to say, but that just sounds dumb. 10 months later, she realizes that she still wants you, and even though there was a problem at the time, she'd like to work it out. Not even considering that you've moved on. What, she was thinking that you, like her (apparently), have been pining away these past 10 months, just hoping that she'd reconsider? Oh, and she was right to break up with you in the first place? Fuck that.
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It sounds very dumb, she knew she broke my heart and I told her then I'd do anything to keep it but she wouldn't have it. Two weeks after the break up she said she wanted to still see me but not be "together" for the summer and then she would reconsider. I shot that down. 3 monthes later she reached out on my birthday and I ignored it. I just realized the connection between it all though... Devin Townsend. Let me explain. It was almost 10 months to the day she broke up with me. I know the date well, because I was supposed to go to her graduation party on May 18th. I had put aside seeing Devin Townsend that day to go to her party instead. She lives like just down the street from the venue too. Anyway, the night before was when I officially told everyone we were done (she had then asked that night if I could go to the party as her friend, I said no... like how awkward would that be). Anyway, I ended up going to the show, my first day "alone" and I was so damn depressed knowing the party was going on the same time down the road. I recorded Devin playing Why? acoustic that night :yarr https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zd9F3Vx_Vs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zd9F3Vx_Vs) and the date is engrained in my head. I had a blast at the show though, very memorable night for me. Flash forward to currently... well I just saw Devin last week and posted a picture of him and I on my IG. I wonder if it set off the same memory triggers as it does for me. She knew well that I loved Devin and had wanted to go to that concert but I put it aside for her originally (she offered for me to leave the party, see the set and come back but as in going as a friend, I felt that would be awkward but a nice gesture on her part). Anway... I don't understand it all, but funny how I think this relates to Devin Townsend :lol
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but she really just exposed herself with all that while I'm over here 45 lbs lighter with a new girl :hat Funny how this also times well with me posting some pictures of myself on IG (where she reached out to me).
That reminds me of a joke a comedian told back in the day. I can't remember the guy's name, but he said, "My girlfriend told me that if I lose 50 lbs she would make love to me. I told her that if I lost 50 pounds, I wouldn't make love to her."
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I think you should get back together with her. She sounds like a peach!
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I think you should get back together with her. She sounds like a peach!
Hairy?
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I think you should get back together with her. She sounds like a peach!
Hairy?
FUZZY! Not hairy!! :tdwn :facepalm: :lol
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A Brazilian peach is the best! :p
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I love how it seems every discussion men have about women seems to eventually devolve down to some kind of fruit. :lol
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Who you calling a fruit!?! :biggrin:
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The girl who broke up with me 10 months ago, reached out to me yesterday asking if there was a way we could talk and maybe work things out :facepalm:
hard pass
yup, "women I have no f*$%ing idea"
(https://i.imgur.com/aKJ6Dx6.gif)
LoL exactly :lol
Sounds like cramx3 made the right choice. And congratulations on the weight loss :metal
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Who you calling a fruit!?! :biggrin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPf2y2QGoJw&feature=youtu.be&t=91
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My minor marriage quibble for the day is how casually my wife can turn me down for sex. Yesterday afternoon I wanted her so badly. She looked great, we were talking and laughing and I felt really connected to her, but of course the kids were around so anything would have to wait. I went out for a little bit, but picked us up some ice cream on the way home (which read her mind as she almost texted me to pick some up). We're sitting and eating it while laughing at some funny YouTube videos and I must have done something to tip her off because she says "I have a book a really want to finish tonight, so no sex tonight. I hope you weren't thinking that ice cream was going to get you some." Well... Yes, that is actually what I was thinking, but thanks for the advance warning. I laughed it off at the time, but felt pretty rejected. I get it, she doesn't want sex as much as me and of course she has the right to say no. I love to read too so I can understand wanting to finish a good book. But I hate how casually she turns me down as if it's no big deal. Rejection hurts every time. I have literally never turned down her advances a single time in 13+ years and will likely never turn her down in the future. In the grand scheme of things it's not the end of the world, we'll probably do it tonight instead, but not wanting sex just doesn't compute in my brain.
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You know your wife, and I'm probably projecting, but that sounds like an invitation to a seduction to me. In your shoes, I would have feigned innocence an said, "Actually, I was just angling for a kiss." Then proceeded to give her a soft, lingering, book-forgetting kiss.
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This thread is getting icky.
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You know your wife, and I'm probably projecting, but that sounds like an invitation to a seduction to me. In your shoes, I would have feigned innocence an said, "Actually, I was just angling for a kiss." Then proceeded to give her a soft, lingering, book-forgetting kiss.
I would be shocked if that's what she wanted. I debated pushing the issue a little bit and probably could have gotten a reluctant quickie out of her, but that's not what I wanted.
This thread is getting icky.
:rollin
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Give her the silent treatment.
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Give her the silent treatment.
:rollin
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This thread is getting icky.
"The stickiest of the icky. Won't you smoke one with the ol' boy Rick James?"
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As usual, I wish I know what the hell you are talking about. :lol
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Give her the silent treatment.
:rollin
:lol
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As usual, I wish I know what the hell you are talking about. :lol
You really need to watch Chappelle's Show's legendary bits about Prince and Rick James. Reference is around the 4 minute mark but you really gotta watch up to that point. Eddie Murphy's brother Charlie recounts real stories about meeting Prince and Rick James. They're legit two of the best comedic bits ever with Chappelle re-enacting the lead roles. https://youtu.be/ry2XlLKctiI
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My minor marriage quibble for the day is how casually my wife can turn me down for sex. Yesterday afternoon I wanted her so badly. She looked great, we were talking and laughing and I felt really connected to her, but of course the kids were around so anything would have to wait. I went out for a little bit, but picked us up some ice cream on the way home (which read her mind as she almost texted me to pick some up). We're sitting and eating it while laughing at some funny YouTube videos and I must have done something to tip her off because she says "I have a book a really want to finish tonight, so no sex tonight. I hope you weren't thinking that ice cream was going to get you some." Well... Yes, that is actually what I was thinking, but thanks for the advance warning. I laughed it off at the time, but felt pretty rejected. I get it, she doesn't want sex as much as me and of course she has the right to say no. I love to read too so I can understand wanting to finish a good book. But I hate how casually she turns me down as if it's no big deal. Rejection hurts every time. I have literally never turned down her advances a single time in 13+ years and will likely never turn her down in the future. In the grand scheme of things it's not the end of the world, we'll probably do it tonight instead, but not wanting sex just doesn't compute in my brain.
None of my relationships went long enough to be denied sex, but I could imagine that being a really crappy feeling.
Reading what the people say on https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/ is really heartbreaking. Some have gone years with no sexual intimacy in their marriage/relationship.
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Hey guys, what are we talking about? :) :) :)
All I can say to that is "walk a mile..." It's amazing what can and does happen in real time.
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You know your wife, and I'm probably projecting, but that sounds like an invitation to a seduction to me. In your shoes, I would have feigned innocence an said, "Actually, I was just angling for a kiss." Then proceeded to give her a soft, lingering, book-forgetting kiss.
Every woman is different of course, but this works for me everytime. Also, my wife is an avid follower of Dr. Laura, and she strongly advocates for men being able to get the sex they need from their wives, as long as it's not coming from a place of abuse. So that's a win win for me! :lol
lordxizor, sorry man, that's a bummer. I hope you got lucky last night. :tup
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My minor marriage quibble for the day is how casually my wife can turn me down for sex. Yesterday afternoon I wanted her so badly. She looked great, we were talking and laughing and I felt really connected to her, but of course the kids were around so anything would have to wait. I went out for a little bit, but picked us up some ice cream on the way home (which read her mind as she almost texted me to pick some up). We're sitting and eating it while laughing at some funny YouTube videos and I must have done something to tip her off because she says "I have a book a really want to finish tonight, so no sex tonight. I hope you weren't thinking that ice cream was going to get you some." Well... Yes, that is actually what I was thinking, but thanks for the advance warning. I laughed it off at the time, but felt pretty rejected. I get it, she doesn't want sex as much as me and of course she has the right to say no. I love to read too so I can understand wanting to finish a good book. But I hate how casually she turns me down as if it's no big deal. Rejection hurts every time. I have literally never turned down her advances a single time in 13+ years and will likely never turn her down in the future. In the grand scheme of things it's not the end of the world, we'll probably do it tonight instead, but not wanting sex just doesn't compute in my brain.
None of my relationships went long enough to be denied sex, but I could imagine that being a really crappy feeling.
Reading what the people say on https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/ is really heartbreaking. Some have gone years with no sexual intimacy in their marriage/relationship.
We are certainly not at that point. Even at our worst we were having sex a couple times a month. We're up to a couple times a week now, which is great. But it still sucks to get rejected.
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You know your wife, and I'm probably projecting, but that sounds like an invitation to a seduction to me. In your shoes, I would have feigned innocence an said, "Actually, I was just angling for a kiss." Then proceeded to give her a soft, lingering, book-forgetting kiss.
Every woman is different of course, but this works for me everytime. Also, my wife is an avid follower of Dr. Laura, and she strongly advocates for men being able to get the sex they need from their wives, as long as it's not coming from a place of abuse. So that's a win win for me! :lol
lordxizor, sorry man, that's a bummer. I hope you got lucky last night. :tup
My past x was like this. Almost always denied sex immediately but if I kept teasing her eventually she'd get into the mood. Once the relationship started souring, I stopped initiating and therefore the sex stopped completely. That was the end.
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You know your wife, and I'm probably projecting, but that sounds like an invitation to a seduction to me. In your shoes, I would have feigned innocence an said, "Actually, I was just angling for a kiss." Then proceeded to give her a soft, lingering, book-forgetting kiss.
Every woman is different of course, but this works for me everytime. Also, my wife is an avid follower of Dr. Laura, and she strongly advocates for men being able to get the sex they need from their wives, as long as it's not coming from a place of abuse. So that's a win win for me! :lol
lordxizor, sorry man, that's a bummer. I hope you got lucky last night. :tup
My past x was like this. Almost always denied sex immediately but if I kept teasing her eventually she'd get into the mood. Once the relationship started souring, I stopped initiating and therefore the sex stopped completely. That was the end.
I honestly don't think I want do to that, not would my wife likely be super receptive, depending on the moment. I want to respect her right to say no, but also get what I need. We've found a decent middle ground lately, but the reality for me is that I would want it almost every day and she's good with once a week. So somewhere in the middle needs to be ok.
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OK, want to be cognizant of a possible overshare here, but...
I'm not that guy. I can be aggressive in my own way (meaning, I'm not looking to just lie there and eat ham sandwiches while she services me), but if I get even a WHIFF that she's not into it, either from a general desire aspect, or a particular act, I'm out. The hard to get thing doesn't really work with me, if it's a cold, stand-offish hard to get, and if you're going to take one for the team, well, pretend like you're not.
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OK, want to be cognizant of a possible overshare here, but...
I'm not that guy. I can be aggressive in my own way (meaning, I'm not looking to just lie there and eat ham sandwiches while she services me), but if I get even a WHIFF that she's not into it, either from a general desire aspect, or a particular act, I'm out. The hard to get thing doesn't really work with me, if it's a cold, stand-offish hard to get, and if you're going to take one for the team, well, pretend like you're not.
This is me too. I'm doing better at communicating my needs and she's been better at being willing over the last few months, but our desires are always going to be disproportionate. I have no interest in my wife reluctantly saying yes, but then just laying there while I do my thing (some of her friends do this for their husbands when they insist). I also have no interest in trying to convince her if she's not into it. At the most I'll say "are you sure?" when she says no. Sex is a mutual thing to me all the way. She has to want it and be into it for it to be fully satisfying to me. Also an overshare, but there are times when she's willing to please me, but isn't really terribly interested in her own pleasure, and while that is nice, it's ultimately less satisfying than us both... ummm... finishing.
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Boy oh boy... some of you have nothing to complain about. There is a much larger chasm between the my and mrs.jingle's sex drive than anyone else here is articulating. Twice a week?? ... yeah, that's never happened in the jingle.marriage.
:sadpanda:
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Dude... that's pretty upsetting to hear.
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Boy oh boy... some of you have nothing to complain about. There is a much larger chasm between the my and mrs.jingle's sex drive than anyone else here is articulating. Twice a week?? ... yeah, that's never happened in the jingle.marriage.
:sadpanda:
Don't feel bad, even though I said what I said, my wife and I don't have sex every week either, let alone every other day. Lordxizor, you are a blessed man :biggrin:.
Normally though, with our large family, we're just too tired. And I won't pretend that my labido is what it was when I was 20. Plus, when she's been pregnant or nursing we completely obstain, only because it's uncomfortable for her. And when it's "that time of the month" We don't do it then either, which I'm totally fine with.
So, 2-3 times a month is generally the norm. But sometimes we go longer than that. But I'm OK with it. I still love that woman to death!
I don't think in order to have a good and healthy marriage you need to be Jack rabbits. :lol
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Well the alarming part of Jingle's post was the "never" part. As in, implying when he was younger that wasn't the case either. I feel like every relationship I've been you have lots of sex at first and it dies down over time, but should never fully diminish. Kids, life, age all get in the way, but I don't think I could even start a relationship if there wasn't good consistent sex.
On the other end of things, as a single guy in mid 30s, my sexual appetite is not what it used to be, but it seems the females I've dated don't have that issue. It's actually reverse. The girl I'm currently seeing will have sex non stop if I were able to.
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Boy oh boy... some of you have nothing to complain about. There is a much larger chasm between the my and mrs.jingle's sex drive than anyone else here is articulating. Twice a week?? ... yeah, that's never happened in the jingle.marriage.
:sadpanda:
In fairness, since my first kid was born 11 years ago we averaged twice a month with her basically never responding to me initiating. About three months ago, after a night of me going to bed furious with her for turning me down, we had a big talk about sex, my desires, her desires, etc and increased the frequency quite a bit. Too much for her to sustain unfortunately. We've sort few backed off to twice a week now, though 3-4 times a week would be about right for me. I am thrilled that she's been willing to do as much as she has, but frankly I'm disappointed that we've slowed down from where we were a couple months ago. It was fun as hell... though it did result in an oops pregnancy. Baby #4 here we come!
Normally though, with our large family, we're just too tired. And I won't pretend that my labido is what it was when I was 20. Plus, when she's been pregnant or nursing we completely obstain, only because it's uncomfortable for her. And when it's "that time of the month" We don't do it then either, which I'm totally fine with.
Too tired isn't an excuse for me (I can still be in the mood even when very tired) but it certainly is for her. Yikes, you abstain the entire time she's pregnant or nursing? That's a long freaking time!! Thankfully my wife gets horny as hell during the second trimester (I've got that to look forward to in a month or two). And she's actually be surprisingly willing these first few weeks since we found out. Though that's largely due to me asking for it a lot. And I'm definitely not interested during that time of the month either.
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Well the alarming part of Jingle's post was the "never" part.
"never" wasn't meant literally. When dating, and when trying to get pregnant (immediately after we were married), and when she was pregnant, the frequency was multiple times a month or week. For the bulk of our marriage, it was once a month.
Over the last 5 years, there have been several times where it's been more than a couple of months without. Lots of reasons, almost all to do with her hormones and drive (ie, lack thereof).
C'est la vie.
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I'm to the point that if Mrs. P gives me a come hither look, I usually ask, "Has it been four months already?"
I kid, I kid.
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Well shit, maybe I don't have anything to complain about. Here I've felt deprived for years with only twice a month.
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There are multiple reasons at play, but if I could get a guaranteed twice a month, I would be elated.
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I'm to the point that if Mrs. P gives me a come hither look, I usually ask, "Has it been four months already?"
I kid, I kid.
:lol
Well shit, maybe I don't have anything to complain about. Here I've felt deprived for year with only twice a month.
:lol, Like I said, you're a blessed man!
Oh, and just to be clear, my wife has never had a lot of luck breast feeding so that only lasts a few weeks. And yeah, nine months without sex is difficult, but like many of you have said, respecting your woman and her body are of the utmost importance.
But, we're done having kids so I don't need to worry about that anymore.
And congrats on # 4!
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And yeah, nine months without sex is difficult, but like many of you have said, respecting your woman and her body are of the utmost importance.
You know... this is something that I struggled with up until our sexual resurgence a few months ago. I felt like I was respecting my wife and her need for control (based on past shitty experiences unfortunately) and not pushing her too hard. But at the same time, I felt like my wife was not respecting me and my needs and I was frankly miserable. It was all one-way. Why were my needs less important than hers? I'm really glad we've improved, but frankly it has led to some of our worst conflict and dredging up of old pain for her. But in the end it's for the best I think. We're still a work in progress. I'll be very curious where things end up after the baby comes and we settle into our new normal at that point.
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I agree, your needs are important too. And I imagine you certainly don't want to feel guilty asking for sex. And rejection doesn't feel good either. And I think sometimes women don't understand how much of a need this is for most men.
At least you talked about it, so that's good.
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And I think sometimes women don't understand how much of a need this is for most men.
No, they definitely don't. I literally searched online for how to handle sexual rejection better, but came across several things written toward women telling them the emotional toll their sexual rejection is taking on their husbands. I found similar things in two different books on sex that we were gifted when we got married. I've explained to my wife multiple times over the last few months that sex is not just about me getting off. It's about connecting with her and making her feel good. Those things are as important as my own pleasure. She still doesn't fully believe me.
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If you haven't yet, Read The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman ... for many men, Physical Touch *is* the language of love. True, intimate, unconditional *love*. And that doesn't just mean intercourse. It's all forms of physical intimacy. For mrs.jingle, Quality Time and Words of Affirmation are 1a and 1b.
The issue is for most people, we express love in the means that we would most want to receive it. It's tantamount to a French man and Italian woman trying to communicate. Man speaks French; woman doesn't understand. And vice versa. A lot of times couples don't know what love language we speak, let alone know how to speak it back in return. I try to give her quality time, and lots of positivity, but it's not my natural language. In turn, physical intimacy is not her native language.
In the jingle example, she doesn't understand why I don't value time together the way that she does... or why I don't appreciate all of the nice things she says. I do, but I'd appreciate a hummer a helluva lot more, and feel far more connected to, and loved by, her. I say that partly tongue in cheek (pun fully intended).
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Well the alarming part of Jingle's post was the "never" part. As in, implying when he was younger that wasn't the case either. I feel like every relationship I've been you have lots of sex at first and it dies down over time, but should never fully diminish. Kids, life, age all get in the way, but I don't think I could even start a relationship if there wasn't good consistent sex.
On the other end of things, as a single guy in mid 30s, my sexual appetite is not what it used to be, but it seems the females I've dated don't have that issue. It's actually reverse. The girl I'm currently seeing will have sex non stop if I were able to.
If I'm offending anyone I apologize, I am just relating my experience, as I have before in the "Lonely Hearts" thread. As the kids say, "your mileage may vary".
When I divorced - I was 45 - I spent a fair amount of time "coming up for air", so to speak, meeting people, talking with anyone who would respond, and even dabbling in a little dating. There was a rich vein of women - roughly late 30's to mid- to late 40's - who were married young, found out the star quarterback was cool at 22 but was a neanderthal at 42, and were looking for something different. These were smart, attractive women, many of them good loving moms, but were just done with the weekend warriors who still thought they were Vince Vaughn. I didn't, for various reasons (not all of which I'm proud of) partake that much, but provided you were adult about it, discrete about it, and respectful about it, there was rock star levels of intimacy to be had.
I'm not saying every woman is like this, or even most. But more than a handful, and for me it seemed to be a fairly recurring pattern.
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Yea, I know you've stated that before and it was honestly on the back of my mind writing that. Some of the girls mid 30s I've dated have sex drives that are insane. This current lady and a few from the last time I was single are the only times I've had females constantly initiating. It's really nice at first, but there's been times I have to hold back and my organ just can't keep playing :lol It's kind of weird how the tables have turned
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Frank from It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia would like to have a few words with you married folk about casaba melons.
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
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My buddy just got divorced and he has at least 3 women sending videos of them pleasuring themselves.
He's living the life right now but at 52 the stamina. Lol
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(https://i.postimg.cc/J07FdvWG/FB-IMG-1583965120836.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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I can say I've never had my partner ever knock me back. I knock her back more like it as her sex drive is pretty up there and always has been. Sometimes I've struggled to keep up. Things are the best ever now even after being together for years but twice a week is normal. I've always though tried to make sure her needs are met, one way or another. I could never have sex without her being satisfied or fulfilled. I make sure that's done one way or another before finishing.
I feel for you guys that get knocked back and whatnot. For me, if that was happening, I believe there would be a deeper problem.
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I'm 58 this year, and I can tell you from personal experience that various parts of the human body simply stop working as well as they did when you were younger. It doesn't help that both myself and my wife have various medical conditions and procedures (coronary bypass for each of us, plus a few others for each of us). The result is that we love each other very much, and express it in various ways, but the physical expression is just plain strenuous and exhausting for both of us, so it doesn't happen a lot.
On the other hand, I'm a musician. I can do fucking amazing things with my hands and fingers, and she would agree. Too much information? No, I think that's exactly enough. :hat
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I'm just going to pretend that this page never fucking happened. :lol
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I'm just going to pretend that this page never fucking happened. :lol
Yeah, sex sucks and blows, right? Err wait... :lol
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I'm 58 this year, and I can tell you from personal experience that various parts of the human body simply stop working as well as they did when you were younger. It doesn't help that both myself and my wife have various medical conditions and procedures (coronary bypass for each of us, plus a few others for each of us). The result is that we love each other very much, and express it in various ways, but the physical expression is just plain strenuous and exhausting for both of us, so it doesn't happen a lot.
On the other hand, I'm a musician. I can do fucking amazing things with my hands and fingers, and she would agree. Too much information? No, I think that's exactly enough. :hat
Honestly the body slowing down is one of the reasons I started pushing for more sex now in our late 30s when everything is still fully functional. I've already noticed a decrease in stamina so I want to make sure we take full advantage while we can.
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I'm 58 this year, and I can tell you from personal experience that various parts of the human body simply stop working as well as they did when you were younger. It doesn't help that both myself and my wife have various medical conditions and procedures (coronary bypass for each of us, plus a few others for each of us). The result is that we love each other very much, and express it in various ways, but the physical expression is just plain strenuous and exhausting for both of us, so it doesn't happen a lot.
On the other hand, I'm a musician. I can do fucking amazing things with my hands and fingers, and she would agree. Too much information? No, I think that's exactly enough. :hat
Honestly the body slowing down is one of the reasons I started pushing for more sex now in our late 30s when everything is still fully functional. I've already noticed a decrease in stamina so I want to make sure we take full advantage while we can.
Is that what you tell her when ice cream doesn't work? :lol
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I'm 58 this year, and I can tell you from personal experience that various parts of the human body simply stop working as well as they did when you were younger. It doesn't help that both myself and my wife have various medical conditions and procedures (coronary bypass for each of us, plus a few others for each of us). The result is that we love each other very much, and express it in various ways, but the physical expression is just plain strenuous and exhausting for both of us, so it doesn't happen a lot.
On the other hand, I'm a musician. I can do fucking amazing things with my hands and fingers, and she would agree. Too much information? No, I think that's exactly enough. :hat
Honestly the body slowing down is one of the reasons I started pushing for more sex now in our late 30s when everything is still fully functional. I've already noticed a decrease in stamina so I want to make sure we take full advantage while we can.
Is that what you tell her when ice cream doesn't work? :lol
:lol works every time.
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Honestly the body slowing down is one of the reasons I started pushing for more sex now in our late 30s when everything is still fully functional. I've already noticed a decrease in stamina so I want to make sure we take full advantage while we can.
Oh, god, you're in your 30's? Yeah, should definitely be making passes at each other several times per day...maybe even following through each time.
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If you haven't yet, Read The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman ... for many men, Physical Touch *is* the language of love. True, intimate, unconditional *love*. And that doesn't just mean intercourse. It's all forms of physical intimacy. For mrs.jingle, Quality Time and Words of Affirmation are 1a and 1b.
Love that book. I'm strait up physical affection all the way. I've had girls in the past say that I wasn't being verbally affectionate, but it wasn't until I looked at that book that I realized that just wasn't how I was. Even when I tried to be verbally affectionate it felt fake and forced, but I could be physically affectionate all day.
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If you haven't yet, Read The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman ... for many men, Physical Touch *is* the language of love. True, intimate, unconditional *love*. And that doesn't just mean intercourse. It's all forms of physical intimacy. For mrs.jingle, Quality Time and Words of Affirmation are 1a and 1b.
Love that book. I'm strait up physical affection all the way. I've had girls in the past say that I wasn't being verbally affectionate, but it wasn't until I looked at that book that I realized that just wasn't how I was. Even when I tried to be verbally affectionate it felt fake and forced, but I could be physically affectionate all day.
Sounds a lot like me. I read this book a long time ago, may be worth revisiting. I think we have a copy of it laying around somewhere.
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New fun incident. Same issue. I ask a question, I get a response that provides some information, but doesn't actually answer the question. Getting an actual answer to my question does not appear to be possible.
The scene: Orbert's house, Saturday afternoon. The kitchen faucet handle keeps coming off. You can put it back on, and it still turns and controls the water, because it mounts on a square "peg", but it keeps coming off and it's getting annoying. She wants to get a new one, not from the regular hardware store, which we know is open, but from the fancy place that only sells plumbing and fixtures, because they have some really nice ones. But this is Illinois, where only "essential services" are open.
Me: Are they open? I know <regular hardware store> is open, but <fancy place> is hardly essential.
She: I checked their website.
Me: (pause) ...And?
She: It didn't say anything about them being closed.
Okay, so maybe they're open, but more likely they just haven't updated their website. Probably because the person who does that hasn't come in, because they're not essential.
Me: Did you call them?
She: I said I checked the website!
So we're going to play this game, again.
Me: Okay, you checked the website. What did it say?
She: It didn't say anything about them being closed.
Me: Did it say anything about them being open?
She: No.
Me: Then we don't actually know. Try calling them.
She: I checked the website!
Me: You said that. Did you call them?
She: No!
I'm doing other stuff anyway, so I just leave the room rather than get into an argument. Later I come back upstairs to make some coffee.
She: So when are we going to <fancy place>?
Me: Did you call them yet?
She: I told you! I checked the website!
Me: Right, but the website did not tell you whether they're open or closed.
She: I know that!
Me: So... we could find out, if someone wanted to, you know, call them.
Foolishly, I reach the same conclusion that always bites me in the ass. That is, since she is the one who wants to go there in the first place, then she should be the one to work out the details. I am willing to work with her on this, but since she already knows what she wants to do, my contribution is in the form of advising the best way to get the information we both need. I head back downstairs to drink my coffee while I surf the net some more. I come back up a half hour later or so to rinse my coffee cup.
She: The website says <fancy place> is open until 4:00 today. (It is now 2:30.)
Me: Did you call them?
She: Look, it says right on the website that they're open on Saturdays until 4:00. Why should I call them?
I don't care anymore. I should just call them myself, but I'm willing to drive all the way out there, to either get a faucet or prove her wrong; it doesn't even matter at this point. I haven't left the house in a week, and find myself actually looking forward to it.
We drive "all the way out there", about 20 minutes. It is absolutely gorgeous outside. It's 70 degrees and sunny, and I have a nice buzz on. She's driving. We slow as we enter the parking lot and she sees that it is completely empty.
She: Oh, it looks like they're closed.
Me: That's why I asked if you'd called them. Twice, at least.
She: But I checked their website!
At least I got out of the house for a while, and it was nice out.
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:zeltar:
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You’d have been so screwed if they were open.
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Saw this thread had a new post... was hoping it was Orbert. Did not disappoint.
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You’d have been so screwed if they were open.
If they had been open, then cool, we would've masked up and gone in and bought a new faucet. It would've been win-win. Instead, it was a nice drive out to the fancy place that was closed. I was the only one who got something out of it, but it was her own damned fault, and I'm not gonna feel bad about that.
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:lol
Perfect update to the OP! Thanks, Orbert.
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In my house, the roles would be reversed. My wife would be, "Can you just call?". I hate calling anywhere.
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I hate calling places as well. I have literally put things off for years just because I would have had to call to make an appointment.
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In my house, the roles would be reversed. My wife would be, "Can you just call?". I hate calling anywhere.
This sentence is so familiar it almost hurts...
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Bob, I feel your pain. Seriously.
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Orbert, your post was the perfect way for me to start my day today :lol
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:lol that was a great post. My wife is completely allergic to making phone calls so if we need to call about anything I need to do it. I eventually got fed up with it and said no, your problem you call. Typically the stuff she asks me to call about returns that she mailed back.
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I feel like I'm looking in a mirror, though I'm with TAC: it would be the other way around.
One of the things that is bugging me, and it might be quarantine, who knows, is pronouns. I'll be sitting there and she'll walk in and say "So, she's getting married, and he doesn't want to have a big wedding, but she's like, we have so many people who do we exclude, and they want to have a say in who goes, but he's not budging, and she's threatening to not pay for the wedding. So she's heartbroken and wants to call the whole thing off. He is willing to help with the money, but he's not budging on demanding that his parents be there." And as I'm listening I realize that my wife has just referred to six different people using only "he" and "she". Add to it that I don't know ANY of these people from the mailman, and I'm like "Oh, that sounds like a mess!" and go back to my book.
The problem is when it gets important. We're in the middle of a dispute with her ex; "Honey, Jim* called. He said that he's not willing to budge on the dollar figure, but he can probably get him to agree to a different schedule for him." Let's unpack that: our lawyer, the person we're "suing" (not really, but it's close enough) and HIS lawyer are all named "Jim", so there's that. Who called? I can assume it's our lawyer. "He said" is not OUR lawyer, but THEIR lawyer. "he's not" is the guy we're "fighting". "he can" is unclear, it's one of the lawyers. "get him" is the guy we're fighting. "for him" is a new person, her son, who is involved in this. I have to do this in real time, AND understand the content of the statement. Usually I just smile, but there are times when I have to say, nicely, "go back over that and put in real names not pronouns, please."
* Not his real name.
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I get this is a thread to complain about how women communicate - or don't as the case may be. So forgive me for jumping in here but I deal with this issue mostly with my kids. And the funny thing is I'm probably guilty of this as well sometimes but I find myself asking them, "Can't you please just be direct with your question/need/desire?"
Ask for what you want. Be kind about it, but be direct. Wash/rinse/repeat.
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When my wife is rambling, I usually tell my wife to tap me on the arm once if she wants me to say yes, and tap it twice if you want me to say no.
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I get this is a thread to complain about how women communicate - or don't as the case may be. So forgive me for jumping in here but I deal with this issue mostly with my kids. And the funny thing is I'm probably guilty of this as well sometimes but I find myself asking them, "Can't you please just be direct with your question/need/desire?"
Ask for what you want. Be kind about it, but be direct. Wash/rinse/repeat.
If it matters to you, I approach it as "spouses"; it just happens that the OP was a man and his spouse was a woman. I'm damn near perfect (:)) but I'm pretty sure my wife could drum up something that she can complain about with my communication skills (or lack thereof). :)
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I get this is a thread to complain about how women communicate - or don't as the case may be. So forgive me for jumping in here but I deal with this issue mostly with my kids. And the funny thing is I'm probably guilty of this as well sometimes but I find myself asking them, "Can't you please just be direct with your question/need/desire?"
Ask for what you want. Be kind about it, but be direct. Wash/rinse/repeat.
I totally hear you about the kids thing. For some reason, they all just expect that everyone knows what they are talking about while giving as little information as possible. Especially my teens. :lol But I still love them to death.
When my wife is rambling, I usually tell my wife to tap me on the arm once if she wants me to say yes, and tap it twice if you want me to say no.
:rollin. I love my wife dearly, but man do I know how you feel! And she gets incensed when she realizes nobody is listening to her anymore. It's usually the kids though.
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My wife has this thing where once she starts driving, she has to call someone. So when she leaves work, she'll call me and proceed to tell me everything she's going to tell me when she gets home anyway. I usually just say, "Don't you have your mother or your sister to call? You can get that out of the way now."
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I get this is a thread to complain about how women communicate - or don't as the case may be. So forgive me for jumping in here but I deal with this issue mostly with my kids. And the funny thing is I'm probably guilty of this as well sometimes but I find myself asking them, "Can't you please just be direct with your question/need/desire?"
Ask for what you want. Be kind about it, but be direct. Wash/rinse/repeat.
Harmony, I admit that I forget sometimes that there are females on board here, and I sincerely apologize if I've offended you or anyone else with my blatant sexism. I'm old, I'm old-fashioned, and I was never that enlightened to begin with, so when my wife and I are having communication issues (which actually isn't nearly as often as it might seem, based on my posts), I tend to write it off as a male/female thing. Sexist as it is, males do tend to have fundamentally different communication styles from females in general. In general. And my wife and I happen to fall right into the stereotypes.
I try to take the edge off of it by writing up my adventures in a hopefully humorous or at least amusing way, but you're absolutely right: This is more of a general conflict of communication styles than it is a strictly male/female thing. I've tried to teach my kids the same thing. Say what you mean. Ask questions if you don't know. At the very least, don't do something stupid (which includes wasting your own time or someone else's) when you could have easily obtained a bit of knowledge that would have saved everyone some trouble. Again, my wife does not seem to share that philosophy, but it's not specifically a gender thing.
You guys saying you hate calling places: I do, too. But I hate wasting time, effort, and/or money even more, when a simple phone call would've avoided it all. I absolutely would've made the call, especially since I fully expected to hear a recording saying that they were closed due to the lockdown blah blah blah. Except that if I'd made the call, it would have exacerbated the issue. If they were closed, she'd be pissed that I called after she already told me (multiple times) that she'd checked the website. Doesn't matter that the website obviously hasn't been updated in months; I should have trusted her, and trusted her judgement, and I didn't. So I'd be in the wrong, even if I was right. If they were open, it would've been even worse. I didn't trust her, and it turned out she was right after all. The only possible move was to just get in the car and go out there with her.
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I get this is a thread to complain about how women communicate - or don't as the case may be. So forgive me for jumping in here but I deal with this issue mostly with my kids. And the funny thing is I'm probably guilty of this as well sometimes but I find myself asking them, "Can't you please just be direct with your question/need/desire?"
Ask for what you want. Be kind about it, but be direct. Wash/rinse/repeat.
Harmony, I admit that I forget sometimes that there are females on board here, and I sincerely apologize if I've offended you or anyone else with my blatant sexism. I'm old, I'm old-fashioned, and I was never that enlightened to begin with, so when my wife and I are having communication issues (which actually isn't nearly as often as it might seem, based on my posts), I tend to write it off as a male/female thing. Sexist as it is, males do tend to have fundamentally different communication styles from females in general. In general. And my wife and I happen to fall right into the stereotypes.
I try to take the edge off of it by writing up my adventures in a hopefully humorous or at least amusing way, but you're absolutely right: This is more of a general conflict of communication styles than it is a strictly male/female thing. I've tried to teach my kids the same thing. Say what you mean. Ask questions if you don't know. At the very least, don't do something stupid (which includes wasting your own time or someone else's) when you could have easily obtained a bit of knowledge that would have saved everyone some trouble. Again, my wife does not seem to share that philosophy, but it's not specifically a gender thing.
You guys saying you hate calling places: I do, too. But I hate wasting time, effort, and/or money even more, when a simple phone call would've avoided it all. I absolutely would've made the call, especially since I fully expected to hear a recording saying that they were closed due to the lockdown blah blah blah. Except that if I'd made the call, it would have exacerbated the issue. If they were closed, she'd be pissed that I called after she already told me (multiple times) that she'd checked the website. Doesn't matter that the website obviously hasn't been updated in months; I should have trusted her, and trusted her judgement, and I didn't. So I'd be in the wrong, even if I was right. If they were open, it would've been even worse. I didn't trust her, and it turned out she was right after all. The only possible move was to just get in the car and go out there with her.
I'm not offended at all. Lord knows I have kvetched about husbands with my female friends.
So I hope you won't be offended by my next observation. You say it was the "only possible move" to just get in the car and go. But I don't think that's true. I think you might have tried, "Honey, I don't want to drive out there only to find the store is closed. One of us needs to call first. Do you want to do it or do you want me to do it?" If she hems and haws, then you have your answer. You call.
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Harmony has it right. Or another option - "I think you should call to verify that they're open because a lot of stores aren't updating their websites and this is something that you really want. But if you don't want to and don't mind taking a ride and getting out of the house for a while, I'm happy to go with you."
It is a funny story though. :)
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Not a bad idea, but I still think it's risky. She was absolutely certain that the website was accurate -- despite my pointing out what I considered a valid reason why it might not be -- and insisting that one of us call ahead is still tantamount to not trusting her judgement. But you're right; it's an option I hadn't thought of.
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Funny story.
Been married 33 years and we've compromised thousands of times but in this case I think the onus was on her to call.
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I get that she might see it that way. But now you can point out that you trusted her judgment about this and then she got it wrong because you didn't make that call.
Walking on egg shells in a relationship sucks. But frankly, if she gets her nose bent out of shape because you wanted to take one more step to ensure you weren't wasting time, then that's on her to talk to you about her feelings. She can have her feelings. That doesn't mean she's right. And you can acknowledge that it might feel to her that you didn't trust her judgment but really you were just trying to make the best of the situation at hand. And welcome her to do the same thing if the situation is ever reversed.
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The wifey and I get into it on this subject in a different way. She's Google a place and they have their hours but Google isn't always updates so I tell her to go on their website. She gets irritated because i don't believe her. I'm driving, I can'y check but I would like to and may of times the hours were different on their website.
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Funny story.
Been married 33 years and we've compromised thousands of times but in this case I think the onus was on her to call.
Not sure I agree. She felt like she did her due diligence. Orbert wasn't satisfied with that (and he was ultimately correct) so the onus was on him to call. I mean, if my old man didn't trust my judgment on something like that, I'd invite him to check it out for himself. Or go run the errand by myself.
I mean, it's ok to take responsibility for doing what we ourselves think is correct in a given situation. I don't mean be a dick about it. Just if it is that important to you, take the bull by the horns.
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Ok, I'd hate to be too much nosey, but
Is the faucet handle ok now?
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Funny story.
Been married 33 years and we've compromised thousands of times but in this case I think the onus was on her to call.
Not sure I agree. She felt like she did her due diligence. Orbert wasn't satisfied with that (and he was ultimately correct) so the onus was on him to call. I mean, if my old man didn't trust my judgment on something like that, I'd invite him to check it out for himself. Or go run the errand by myself.
I mean, it's ok to take responsibility for doing what we ourselves think is correct in a given situation. I don't mean be a dick about it. Just if it is that important to you, take the bull by the horns.
She may take it as he doesn't trust her so that's why Orbert was hesitant. That's a guess. Me personally. I would tell her i want to call so we don't wait our time driving everywhere.
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Ok, I'd hate to be too much nosey, but
Is the faucet handle ok now?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQiVJp_uYf1rbMAUwjqIsEKw5p6Amjpqjcqj-sVOtOyF9OnmRXG&s)
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Funny story.
Been married 33 years and we've compromised thousands of times but in this case I think the onus was on her to call.
Not sure I agree. She felt like she did her due diligence. Orbert wasn't satisfied with that (and he was ultimately correct) so the onus was on him to call. I mean, if my old man didn't trust my judgment on something like that, I'd invite him to check it out for himself. Or go run the errand by myself.
I mean, it's ok to take responsibility for doing what we ourselves think is correct in a given situation. I don't mean be a dick about it. Just if it is that important to you, take the bull by the horns.
He pointed out correctly though that many websites have not been updated. Given the lockdown, essential workers and businesses, etc., there was at least a 50% chance it was closed. Also, the local hardware store, the one that was open, was overruled by her in favor of the other place. I don't see this as a trusting judgement issue. I see it--albeit from a distance and not personally knowing her--as potential laziness
Anyways...Mars, Venus and all that :)
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Funny story.
Been married 33 years and we've compromised thousands of times but in this case I think the onus was on her to call.
Not sure I agree. She felt like she did her due diligence. Orbert wasn't satisfied with that (and he was ultimately correct) so the onus was on him to call. I mean, if my old man didn't trust my judgment on something like that, I'd invite him to check it out for himself. Or go run the errand by myself.
I mean, it's ok to take responsibility for doing what we ourselves think is correct in a given situation. I don't mean be a dick about it. Just if it is that important to you, take the bull by the horns.
He pointed out correctly though that many websites have not been updated. Given the lockdown, essential workers and businesses, etc., there was at least a 50% chance it was closed. Also, the local hardware store, the one that was open, was overruled by her in favor of the other place. I don't see this as a trusting judgement issue. I see it--albeit from a distance and not personally knowing her--as potential laziness
Anyways...Mars, Venus and all that :)
Well, I can see that. But he was the one who wanted/needed to be sure the store was open. It didn't seem like she cared enough to worry about it. Certainly not enough to take the extra step of calling.
Back to the "being direct" point of my first post here - this is where the "Do you want to call or should I?" comes in. If she clearly doesn't care to call and it clearly is his issue/concern, then he should be the one who calls.
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That's all true. If I wanted to be absolutely sure, I still could have called. But in the end, getting out of the house didn't seem like a bad idea anyway, and I had already wasted far too much time and energy on the issue.
Ok, I'd hate to be too much nosey, but
Is the faucet handle ok now?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQiVJp_uYf1rbMAUwjqIsEKw5p6Amjpqjcqj-sVOtOyF9OnmRXG&s)
Nope.
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That's all true. If I wanted to be absolutely sure, I still could have called. But in the end, getting out of the house didn't seem like a bad idea anyway, and I had already wasted far too much time and energy on the issue.
Just wondering..is it possible that was her goal all along? Being direct works both ways. Maybe she isn't being direct with you? "Yeah honey, I may be wrong about that place being open. But I'd really like us to get out of the house and go for a drive anyway. You good with that?"
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It's funny that so many of us hate to call. I certainly do. TAC, Stadler, as well. And why? It only takes a minute, no big deal, but I still hate doing it.
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I can not stand calling either. Its like torture to me. I will hesitate for days even to make a doctor's appointment over the phone :P
Checking info on an online site and making online appointments are a godsend :smiley:
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I don't understand the shared distaste for calling. Why? Is this a generational thing?
Hello, are you open? Ok, thanks
Total elapsed time--25 seconds.
What am I missing?
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I have anxiety when it comes to talking on the phone. Always have. My phone rings, my heart beats faster. I will take all necessary steps to do anything I can before resorting to calling some (other than my immediate family) Still, I'd end up calling Orbert's faucet place without it stressing me out.
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That's all true. If I wanted to be absolutely sure, I still could have called. But in the end, getting out of the house didn't seem like a bad idea anyway, and I had already wasted far too much time and energy on the issue.
Just wondering..is it possible that was her goal all along? Being direct works both ways. Maybe she isn't being direct with you? "Yeah honey, I may be wrong about that place being open. But I'd really like us to get out of the house and go for a drive anyway. You good with that?"
It is possible. She can be quite clever when it comes to manipulating me. I fall for it most of the time, and only figure out later what happened, if at all. Sometimes I can see it coming, and if I recognize it, I just shut it down. I work the conversation back into the direction I'd prefer. There's no point in calling it out ("You're just trying to manipulate me!") because she's successful at it often enough that it's still worth it to her to keep trying.
Love is blind, but mostly, love is stupid.
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I have anxiety when it comes to talking on the phone. Always have. My phone rings, my heart beats faster. I will take all necessary steps to do anything I can before resorting to calling some (other than my immediate family) Still, I'd end up calling Orbert's faucet place without it stressing me out.
Precisely this. Using my phone as an actual phone (outside of my immediate family) fills me with dread. Phone calls are one of the least enjoyable things.
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Technology has turned many of us into isolationists. I just made that up; I have no idea if it's a real word or anything.
But consider. Most of us of a certain age grew up actually talking on the phone. Now, most people just send a text. Entire conversations take place by text. There was a time when I absolutely hated that. Just call the person and talk to them. But with the "convenience" of texting, it has all but replaced real time conversation. If someone is in the middle of something and can't answer right away, they'll get back to you when they can (usually). I know, there are exceptions. My kids freak out if they text someone and that person doesn't answer in 10 seconds. But you know what I mean.
Same with website vs just calling them. My position is that the website is only as accurate as the last time someone updated it, and that's only if they did that correctly. But if I call and actually talk to someone, I can ask them what their hours are, or if I get a recording that says they're closed, I can still take that as more accurate and/or up-to-date than their website. But at some point, actual real-time human interaction became the exception rather than the norm, and that trend is not likely to change. People would rather get their information, conduct their business, without actually dealing with other humans interactively.
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I have anxiety when it comes to talking on the phone. Always have. My phone rings, my heart beats faster. I will take all necessary steps to do anything I can before resorting to calling some (other than my immediate family) Still, I'd end up calling Orbert's faucet place without it stressing me out.
Precisely this. Using my phone as an actual phone (outside of my immediate family) fills me with dread. Phone calls are one of the least enjoyable things.
I'm like that too! At least with my heart starting to beat a little faster. And I completely agree with emtee that it takes a few seconds and it's no big deal. And yet, I just don't want to do it. I have no problem talking with friends on the phone, or even work calls - that's fine too. But otherwise, I really hate it. I call if I need to though - if I can't get the info I need online, I'll suck it up and do it.
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I have anxiety when it comes to talking on the phone. Always have. My phone rings, my heart beats faster. I will take all necessary steps to do anything I can before resorting to calling some (other than my immediate family) Still, I'd end up calling Orbert's faucet place without it stressing me out.
Precisely this. Using my phone as an actual phone (outside of my immediate family) fills me with dread. Phone calls are one of the least enjoyable things.
I have the exact opposite anxiety: I don't feel comfortable missing calls and consequent info/opportunities.
That's why I asked about the faucet; not to be a dick or a judgemental dick, but because a malfunctioning piece of house hardware would be a way bigger problem to me than making a call.
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My thing is I like to multitask. I am always multitasking. Been like that my whole life. I struggle to multitask on the phone because it requires full engagement and I get restless; I would rather have that engagement face to face. But I'm also fairly, er, weird about in-person socialization. If it ain't a concert, I ain't talkin' to you. :)
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That's all true. If I wanted to be absolutely sure, I still could have called. But in the end, getting out of the house didn't seem like a bad idea anyway, and I had already wasted far too much time and energy on the issue.
Just wondering..is it possible that was her goal all along? Being direct works both ways. Maybe she isn't being direct with you? "Yeah honey, I may be wrong about that place being open. But I'd really like us to get out of the house and go for a drive anyway. You good with that?"
It is possible. She can be quite clever when it comes to manipulating me. I fall for it most of the time, and only figure out later what happened, if at all. Sometimes I can see it coming, and if I recognize it, I just shut it down. I work the conversation back into the direction I'd prefer. There's no point in calling it out ("You're just trying to manipulate me!") because she's successful at it often enough that it's still worth it to her to keep trying.
Love is blind, but mostly, love is stupid.
Yes, you are right. But you can be smarter about it with practice.
Obviously I don't know you and I don't know your whole situation so I'm just spit balling a bit here. I have no desire to stick up for someone who is setting out to be manipulative. I hate that shit. But some people don't even realize they are doing it. It is often a learned behavior from their own upbringing. And if that changes it's on her, not YOU, to change it. That said, instead of calling it out just be direct with her. "I'd like you to call. If you don't, I will." And if this upsets her, then that's on her. You are communicating what your need is and you are doing it directly. If this becomes a consistent pattern with you, she'll either have to adjust to it or not. At least you are being honest and fair and you aren't stuffing your own emotions.
Maybe this is part of a larger discussion that needs to be had between both of you. "How can be both get our needs met without feeling hurt, mistrusted, or manipulated? How can we make it a win/win when we have a disagreement?"
Believe me. BELIEVE ME - I know this is easier said than done. But maybe it's worth at least trying to have the discussion for your peace of mind.
Relationships are fucking hard work.
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My thing is I like to multitask. I am always multitasking. Been like that my whole life. I struggle to multitask on the phone because it requires full engagement and I get restless; I would rather have that engagement face to face. But I'm also fairly, er, weird about in-person socialization. If it ain't a concert, I ain't talkin' to you. :)
Then pretend we're at a concert and I'm talking to you: multitask whatever you're doing AND breathing, my friend. :D
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I have anxiety when it comes to talking on the phone. Always have. My phone rings, my heart beats faster. I will take all necessary steps to do anything I can before resorting to calling some (other than my immediate family) Still, I'd end up calling Orbert's faucet place without it stressing me out.
Precisely this. Using my phone as an actual phone (outside of my immediate family) fills me with dread. Phone calls are one of the least enjoyable things.
I'm like that too! At least with my heart starting to beat a little faster. And I completely agree with emtee that it takes a few seconds and it's no big deal. And yet, I just don't want to do it. I have no problem talking with friends on the phone, or even work calls - that's fine too. But otherwise, I really hate it. I call if I need to though - if I can't get the info I need online, I'll suck it up and do it.
Me four all the way.
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That's all true. If I wanted to be absolutely sure, I still could have called. But in the end, getting out of the house didn't seem like a bad idea anyway, and I had already wasted far too much time and energy on the issue.
Just wondering..is it possible that was her goal all along? Being direct works both ways. Maybe she isn't being direct with you? "Yeah honey, I may be wrong about that place being open. But I'd really like us to get out of the house and go for a drive anyway. You good with that?"
It is possible. She can be quite clever when it comes to manipulating me. I fall for it most of the time, and only figure out later what happened, if at all. Sometimes I can see it coming, and if I recognize it, I just shut it down. I work the conversation back into the direction I'd prefer. There's no point in calling it out ("You're just trying to manipulate me!") because she's successful at it often enough that it's still worth it to her to keep trying.
Love is blind, but mostly, love is stupid.
Yes, you are right. But you can be smarter about it with practice.
Obviously I don't know you and I don't know your whole situation so I'm just spit balling a bit here. I have no desire to stick up for someone who is setting out to be manipulative. I hate that shit. But some people don't even realize they are doing it. It is often a learned behavior from their own upbringing. And if that changes it's on her, not YOU, to change it. That said, instead of calling it out just be direct with her. "I'd like you to call. If you don't, I will." And if this upsets her, then that's on her. You are communicating what your need is and you are doing it directly. If this becomes a consistent pattern with you, she'll either have to adjust to it or not. At least you are being honest and fair and you aren't stuffing your own emotions.
Maybe this is part of a larger discussion that needs to be had between both of you. "How can be both get our needs met without feeling hurt, mistrusted, or manipulated? How can we make it a win/win when we have a disagreement?"
Believe me. BELIEVE ME - I know this is easier said than done. But maybe it's worth at least trying to have the discussion for your peace of mind.
Relationships are fucking hard work.
It may be conscious manipulation, and it may be subconscious. It may even be manipulation, but she does it without it even occurring to her that it's wrong. ("How can I get him to <do something>? I know, I'll just <say something slightly related>, and then he'll think about it, and do it.") And it works, because among the things that I place a high value on are (1) doing the right thing, and (2) making my wife happy. So ultimately, I am doing it for the right reasons, kinda, but it took a somewhat less than completely honest approach on her part to get there.
As far as changing it, having the discussion... I don't know. We've been married over 30 years. People do continue to change, but honestly, I've come to accept our relationship for the imperfect thing that it is. In some ways, I feel like I've gotten the better end of our arrangement, and in others, not so much. I'm pretty sure she feels the same way (though I've never actually asked her). It's give and take on both sides. Yes, it makes sense to want to address things that one feels are wrong and which can be fixed. But there comes the question of how much effort is involved, how much potential upside there is to it, and how much potential downside there is from stirring things up that aren't really that bad. I come on DTF with my horror stories, but mostly I'm just venting. I have guy friends, but we've never been the type to sit around and bitch about our wives. It's just not part of the vibe. Mostly, when we get together, we get stoned and/or make music together.
By the way, Thank You for your perspective. I haven't actually done the math, but for every guy here telling me to just talk to her, there are probably ten who already know how it's gonna go and would tell me not to kick the hornet's nest. But a genuine female perspective is rare for me. I don't have female friends who I can talk about this stuff with, and I appreciate your input without judgement.
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I just don't want to be that guy asking the dumb questions.
Clerk: "Hello."
Me: "Um..are you open?"
Clerk (rolling his eyes thinking I answered the fucking phone didn't I?): "Yes we are."
Me: "OK just checking."
Clerk: "Ok bye." (thinking...asshole!)
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To Orbert - You are welcome. And you are right too. Sometimes it's just better to take the high road and let the small stuff slide. I get it. After nearly 30 years of marriage, I bite my tongue at least once every day. :laugh:
I just don't want to be that guy asking the dumb questions.
Clerk: "Hello."
Me: "Um..are you open?"
Clerk (rolling his eyes thinking I answered the fucking phone didn't I?): "Yes we are."
Me: "OK just checking."
Clerk: "Ok bye." (thinking...asshole!)
Ok but why do you care what some store clerk fucking thinks about you?!? :lol I mean it's not like you are going to walk into that store and he's going to point at you, laugh, and loudly say "Hey look everybody! It's the asshole who called to see if we were open!"
Plus he's getting minimum wage to answer questions from assholes who call in anyway. It's his job! ;)
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I just don't want to be that guy asking the dumb questions.
Clerk: "Hello."
Me: "Um..are you open?"
Clerk (rolling his eyes thinking I answered the fucking phone didn't I?): "Yes we are."
Me: "OK just checking."
Clerk: "Ok bye." (thinking...asshole!)
I know that feel. I specifically phrase my response in the form of a hopefully non-stupid question.
"Hi, how late are you open today?" is a fave. Obviously they're open if they answered the phone, but customers don't necessarily memorize their hours. If they say something like "We're open 9 to 9 every day" with a tone that implies that I should've known that, well fuck them, I didn't know. If I'd known, I wouldn't have called. That way I can at least feel like they were the asshole, not me.
:lol
ETA: As Harmony says, they're the minimum wage shmuck whose job it is to answer my questions. I gave him something to do. He should be grateful!
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I just don't want to be that guy asking the dumb questions.
Clerk: "Hello."
Me: "Um..are you open?"
Clerk (rolling his eyes thinking I answered the fucking phone didn't I?): "Yes we are."
Me: "OK just checking."
Clerk: "Ok bye." (thinking...asshole!)
I am that asshole clerk regularly. Sorryyyy :lol
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I just don't want to be that guy asking the dumb questions.
Clerk: "Hello."
Me: "Um..are you open?"
Clerk (rolling his eyes thinking I answered the fucking phone didn't I?): "Yes we are."
Me: "OK just checking."
Clerk: "Ok bye." (thinking...asshole!)
Ok but why do you care what some store clerk fucking thinks about you?!? :lol
Oh I don't care what they think of me. But I care what I think of me, and I don't want to put myself in the position of embarrassing myself for asking a dumb question. I have way more pride than that. I would rather drive to a store that's closed than to call and see if they're open. :lol
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I just don't want to be that guy asking the dumb questions.
Clerk: "Hello."
Me: "Um..are you open?"
Clerk (rolling his eyes thinking I answered the fucking phone didn't I?): "Yes we are."
Me: "OK just checking."
Clerk: "Ok bye." (thinking...asshole!)
Ok but why do you care what some store clerk fucking thinks about you?!? :lol
Oh I don't care what they think of me. But I care what I think of me, and I don't want to put myself in the position of embarrassing myself for asking a dumb question. I have way more pride than that. I would rather drive to a store that's closed than to call and see if they're open. :lol
And yet you don't care what we are all thinking about you. You know we are all judging you now. :loser: ;)
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Not at all. DTF is like being with your friends at recess.
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Has anyone read the book Men are from mars, women are from Venus?
Orbert, I think you would enjoy the read. I got it when my last relationship was starting to fall apart and it was a fascinating read.
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Where do you think I got the title of this thread?
But to answer your question, No. I did skim through a copy at the bookstore one time. That bookstore is now out of business. Draw your own conclusions.
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Ok but why do you care what some store clerk fucking thinks about you?!? :lol I mean it's not like you are going to walk into that store and he's going to point at you, laugh, and loudly say "Hey look everybody! It's the asshole who called to see if we were open!"
Plus he's getting minimum wage to answer questions from assholes who call in anyway. It's his job! ;)
Not picking on you here, because you're right as rain in the cold light of day, but... if it was only that easy. I don't know if "change" is the right word, because I don't feel like I have changed, but when I was in college, I was so self-conscious about people that if my class started and I wasn't in the room, I would turn around and go back to the dorm rather than walk in. When I did my senior thesis presentation, in front of the entire engineering school, I blacked out a little, in the sense that I don't remember ANY of it. I did it, we did a good job (presenting a parking lot design on campus - that ultimately got built, by the way!) but I don't remember even a second of it. I must've heard Gene Simmons say 1,000 times something to the effect of, "just go up and talk to them (women). The worst they can do is say "no", and you move on to the next one. You only need one "yes"." Now, I'm still self-conscious about certain things, but I have no problem initiating conversations. And one of those things that I'm self-conscious about is that notion of "what are they thinking?"
It's hard for me, because I don't want to be oblivious. There's something I value about being self-aware, and while I certainly think I'm the cat's meow (kidding, sort of) I also think we're all flawed, myself included. I want to be as realistic as I can, and sometimes that means being overly critical about things that don't really matter in the long run. Leaving a wake of "holy FUCK is that guy an idiot" is one of those things.
Odd tangent, but I watched a four-hour bio on Garth Brooks the other night. And there's a lot to make fun of about him. He's not shy, and he's clearly insecure in the way that many celebrities are, and yet there's... well, there's a whiff of insincerity about him. He got choked up like 2,000 times in the doc, and I'm like "you're Garth friggin' Brooks. Gimme a break." But I realized about 3 and a half hours in, that that's who he is. He's an emotional raw nerve, and it feeds everything he does. He has this need to be loved and liked and admired (some of his record sales records are... gamed, for lack of a better word), and while it's easy for me to be judgemental from a distance, there's not ONE PERSON that was interviewed - including ex-wives, his kids, ex-bandmates, people who should have or could have had a grudge - who took a shot at him. They were honest - the ex was up front about what he did or didn't do as a husband or a dad - but every one of them at one point or another said the same thing: he cares, maybe too much, and it's what makes him "Garth BrooksTM". I'm not Garth Brooks, and yet, I think there's something to that idea of wanting to be better at every opportunity.
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Hey, I'm the last one to make fun of anyone's insecurities and I was just giving folks shit. I mean, at one point in my life I WAS that pimply faced store clerk telling assholes that yes, we are open. Maybe I'd roll my eyes sometimes, but whatever made the shift go by faster, you know?
Social anxiety is a thing. I've had my bouts with it at times, especially when I was hormonal after having one of my kids. I remember sitting in a parking lot at a bank shaking at the thought of having to go in and face a bank teller. I actually didn't make it in at all IIRC. So my ribbing here is meant to be just in fun. Not to judge people with legit anxieties.
And I have had this conversation with my kids who absolutely hate talking on the phone. It impacts the way people date now and I find it all very sad. Young people don't get enough practice with one on one conversations or phone calls. And watching their anxiety when confronted with having to talk in small groups or have a talk with their professor is excruciating as a parent.
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Add me to the group of people who don't like using the phone. I mean, in this scenario it's not a big deal to make that call, but in general, I will try to avoid talking on the phone as much as possible. I think it's the introvert in me, for some reason I always struggled with this. My college roommate would always make the calls for me on things like this example. I don't know why I'm like this.
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I agree with this. Along with sports of course, we make sure our daughters take part in a lot of school activities like Drama, Debate, Elocution, Honor Society, and evening Spelling Bee..... all have components of public speaking and verbal communication. I share your worry about society’s lack of interpersonal interaction these days. ( as I type this on a phone to a message board lol)
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I've read articles where people have posited that requiring students to engage in public speaking activities/lessons was unfair to those who have anxiety.
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/09/teens-think-they-shouldnt-have-to-speak-in-front-of-the-class/570061/
On principle, I don't like the idea of not requiring kids to do something because they are afraid to do it, or because they find it difficult. That doesn't seem like a good way to prepare kids for life. And I say that as someone who would have benefited from never speaking in front of the class. In retrospect, I wish I was made to do more of it, I might be more comfortable now in certain situations. We can't function as a society if we can only communicate with others via Instagram.
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I agree with this. Along with sports of course, we make sure our daughters take part in a lot of school activities like Drama, Debate, Elocution, Honor Society, and evening Spelling Bee..... all have components of public speaking and verbal communication. I share your worry about society’s lack of interpersonal interaction these days. ( as I type this on a phone to a message board lol)
I completely agree. Let's add to this. I call my nephews & Nieces and they don't pick up. I text and they respond right away. It's permeating throughout our culture.
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I find it amusing that the trend these days is to watch a video on something rather than read about it. But to write your communication with friends rather than speak live. Seems like those trends move in the complete opposite direction.
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On principle, I don't like the idea of not requiring kids to do something because they are afraid to do it, or because they find it difficult. That doesn't seem like a good way to prepare kids for life. And I say that as someone who would have benefited from never speaking in front of the class. In retrospect, I wish I was made to do more of it, I might be more comfortable now in certain situations. We can't function as a society if we can only communicate with others via Instagram.
I agree with this completely. As a kid, and throughout almost all my schooling, I absolutely hated and dreaded speaking in front of the class. But sometime in college I got enough exposure to it where I could make my way through, and gained a bit of confidence.
Fast forward to now. I still don't enjoy doing it. Rather, I look at it as a challenge, something I'm going to beat. I got asked to speak at our quarterly company meeting a few months back and gave what I thought was a pretty standard and boring presentation. I guess I made a good impression because apparently in my company, I'm some sort of public speaking wizard now. Of course, no one knows what I was like as a kid, and how I still don't like that sort of thing, but I wasn't going to tell them that. Before COVID wrecked my company, I improved my standing and prospects there quite a bit because of that speech. Go figure, sometimes those lessons do apply in real life.
Still would rather email or do something online though. I don't mind using the phone, but it better be necessary and brief. When I call someone it usually means they haven't responded to previous methods and you'd better have the answer for me. But don't call me (work people - not friends) because you have no one to talk to and want to bore me to death for 30 minutes about your life. You're not my friend and I don't care.
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I find it amusing that the trend these days is to watch a video on something rather than read about it. But to write your communication with friends rather than speak live. Seems like those trends move in the complete opposite direction.
The common denominator is separation, though. There's still a screen interrupting - or, maybe, intercepting - the conversation.
I've read articles where people have posited that requiring students to engage in public speaking activities/lessons was unfair to those who have anxiety.
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/09/teens-think-they-shouldnt-have-to-speak-in-front-of-the-class/570061/
On principle, I don't like the idea of not requiring kids to do something because they are afraid to do it, or because they find it difficult. That doesn't seem like a good way to prepare kids for life. And I say that as someone who would have benefited from never speaking in front of the class. In retrospect, I wish I was made to do more of it, I might be more comfortable now in certain situations. We can't function as a society if we can only communicate with others via Instagram.
I agree with the concept, I don't like the wording. "Unfair". In one sense, who gives a shit what's "unfair"? How do we even decide what's "unfair" to begin with? Having said that, knowledge is power, and if we can take that into account, and work with it - work with that child the same way we work with kids on math, or dancing, or hitting a baseball, maybe we can make their life better.
I know for me, I have three kids (I'm excluding the oldest; he didn't get this gene for some reason) that decide they don't like something after the first non-perfect try (except, it seems, for the younger kid and video games, go figure). So the challenge with things like public speaking was removing the concept of "fairness" and moving to the concept of "honing skills". It's a work in progress, but the oldest (step daughter) is now out on her own, divorced, and realizing that "adult" actually DOESN'T mean "doing whatever you want", but in fact DOES mean (as her step dad once told her) that it means "doing what you HAVE to do when you have to do it", including public speaking (she's now a very successful hair stylist). The middle daughter is in college and is realizing that practice does move you to perfect, and now she's grappling with the risk-reward of "what does it take to be great?". The youngest (stepson) is on level 47 of Fortnite. :)
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Some are "blaming" this anxiety of talking on the phone or public speaking on technology, and I really don't see that as the case. I didn't have a smartphone or tablet as a kid and my dislike of those things didn't start with the smartphone. It seems to just be a pretty common thing that some humans dislike. Maybe technology now makes it easier for us to avoid it, but I think it's always been there.
But, I do mostly agree that we all have to do things we just like sometimes. That's just the way it is. But I think while we shouldn't allow kids to skip all public speaking, for example, maybe we should do more than just tell them to suck it up and do it. I certainly never got more comfortable with it, and I had to do it plenty of times in school. And now as an adult, does it affect my life that I don't like it and I'm not good at it? No, it really doesn't. We can't all be good at everything.
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This is a tough one for sure. I have told my kids for years that they "can do hard things". I tell them that everytime they tell me something is hard. And I try very hard to live that principle as well so I can be a good example to them.
And there's the idea of us creating a society full of snowflakes if we don't allow our kids ot get bumped around every once in a while. Grit, is a learned life skill for most people I think.
But anxiety is a real thing and can be very devistating, even to the point of someone taking their own life over it. So that can't be taken lightly either. But how much of the anxiety in our society is being created because (collectively) we are too soft on our children, and how much of it is genuine mental illness? That I don't know.
But, from my vantage point, it appears that western society is heading in the wrong direction in this regard.
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And there's the idea of us creating a society full of snowflakes if we don't allow our kids ot get bumped around every once in a while. Grit, is a learned life skill for most people I think.
I've been thinking along these lines a fair amount lately. Our grandparents or great-grandparents living through wars, the depression, all sorts of hardships. Grit is a good word for how I see my grandparents. But it wasn't without a cost. They were certainly more self-sufficient and learned how to get by with what they had AND be appreciative of that. But they also held people at arms length and weren't very demonstrative. They also had their bouts with alcoholism and nicotine addition.
How is this covid experience going to change this upcoming generation? For the better? For the worse?
Oh - and are we going to call 2019 and before BC? ;)
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But, from my vantage point, it appears that western society is heading in the wrong direction in this regard.
Every generation has said this about the following one. We work to make the next generation's life easier, but then we complain they have it too easy. Well, wasn't that the point? (Not a question for you, Lion. It's rhetorical)
We had a thread on this subject in P/R last summer.
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I think that's a great perspective, TAC.
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I've been struggling a lot with the "thicken your skin, kid" vs "I'll open the path of least resistance for you" approaches since I suddenly became a step-father. Then I gave up on big educational convictions and focused on one single crucial aspect: it doesn't matter if the kid has it hard or easy, the important thing is she is never allowed to be blocked by fear of mistakes. Mistakes are gold.
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Amen!
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But, from my vantage point, it appears that western society is heading in the wrong direction in this regard.
Every generation has said this about the following one. We work to make the next generation's life easier, but then we complain they have it too easy. Well, wasn't that the point? (Not a question for you, Lion. It's rhetorical)
We had a thread on this subject in P/R last summer.
You're absolutely right, it's kind of our own fault things have turned out this way.
I've been struggling a lot with the "thicken your skin, kid" vs "I'll open the path of least resistance for you" approaches since I suddenly became a step-father. Then I gave up on big educational convictions and focused on one single crucial aspect: it doesn't matter if the kid has it hard or easy, the important thing is she is never allowed to be blocked by fear of mistakes. Mistakes are gold.
100%!
And there's the idea of us creating a society full of snowflakes if we don't allow our kids ot get bumped around every once in a while. Grit, is a learned life skill for most people I think.
I've been thinking along these lines a fair amount lately. Our grandparents or great-grandparents living through wars, the depression, all sorts of hardships. Grit is a good word for how I see my grandparents. But it wasn't without a cost. They were certainly more self-sufficient and learned how to get by with what they had AND be appreciative of that. But they also held people at arms length and weren't very demonstrative. They also had their bouts with alcoholism and nicotine addition.
How is this covid experience going to change this upcoming generation? For the better? For the worse?
Oh - and are we going to call 2019 and before BC? ;)
I see what you did there :tup. Who knows, maybe. It's a pretty dramatic event.
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In the spirit of the thread's name, my wife did something today that reminded me it would fit right in. She does it all the time. I've never called her out on it, I just answer her.
She's in the dining room. I'm in the living room.
Wife (yelling across the house): What date is it? Is it the 8th? (Note: she has both an iPad and her cell phone in front of her)
Me: Yes, it's the 8th.
This happens all the time.
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And there's the idea of us creating a society full of snowflakes if we don't allow our kids ot get bumped around every once in a while. Grit, is a learned life skill for most people I think.
I've been thinking along these lines a fair amount lately. Our grandparents or great-grandparents living through wars, the depression, all sorts of hardships. Grit is a good word for how I see my grandparents. But it wasn't without a cost. They were certainly more self-sufficient and learned how to get by with what they had AND be appreciative of that. But they also held people at arms length and weren't very demonstrative. They also had their bouts with alcoholism and nicotine addition.
How is this covid experience going to change this upcoming generation? For the better? For the worse?
Oh - and are we going to call 2019 and before BC? ;)
I'm sure you know this, but for others that might not, "grit" is now a recognized thing (https://www.forbes.com/sites/margaretperlis/2013/10/29/5-characteristics-of-grit-what-it-is-why-you-need-it-and-do-you-have-it/#24dd7f2c4f7b). I think there's some truth in that.
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Watching this video made me think of this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE4RbNw4kbU
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Watching this video made me think of this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE4RbNw4kbU
Mingya.
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Holy mackerel. I was able to mouth the words in real time as they were saying them.
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Those sunglasses are a bit ridiculous.
I've been to parties recently with candy-filled pinatas. One of them actually had toys in with the candy, and among the toys were tiny water guns. The kid in me who grew up playing with water guns thought "awesome!" The person in me living in the progressive PNW thought "OMG why are we teaching our kids it is ok to play with guns?!"
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Just to change it up, I'm usually the one waiting to leave at our house. LoL
I'm curious though (and I know they are just bantering together for the camera) if he's in such a hurry, why is he sitting their talking about pinatas and not driving already? :P
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jingle.kids and I used to "bet" on an over/under as to how long we'd have to wait in the car for mrs.jingle when leaving - either our house, or from a friends/family gathering. I'd say 7-8 minutes was the average.