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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: ejter on November 08, 2019, 04:14:30 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICHnJb2sDz4
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Wow. He really didn't know who Tony Williams was before he played with him. I guess that's what happens when you get a "classical" training in music. I know jazz wasn't foreign to him as I recall him citing in another interview that he was influenced by Chick Corea's Now He Sings, Now He Sobs -- so he had some knowledge of at least one of the musicians in Miles' circle.
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Wow. He really didn't know who Tony Williams was before he played with him. I guess that's what happens when you get a "classical" training in music. I know jazz wasn't foreign to him as I recall him citing in another interview that he was influenced by Chick Corea's Now He Sings, Now He Sobs -- so he had some knowledge of at least one of the musicians in Miles' circle.
Jazz is such a huge genre. Not surprising a keyboard player who wasn't into Jazz didn't know who that drummer was.
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I guess it surprised me because I'm not a jazz guy, and even I know who Tony Williams is. I guess experience is relative. I figured Emergency! (with Larry young and John McLaughlin) was one of those '69 zietgeist albums that even non-jazz people would have been aware of. Even my dad has a copy in his record collection from his youth. That, along with Miles' In A Silent Way and Bitches Brew, I sort of figured this was mainstream stuff in the late 60's/early 70s. Seminal fusion.
It's almost like admitting you've never heard about any of Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, and Weather Report. Shit, I watched a Jason Newsted interview the other day, and he mentioned how Stanley Clarke was an influence (Tony played on Stanley's 1st solo album). You don't need to be a pure jazzer to know about Tony Williams. I barely know shit about jazz, and I'm well aware of Tony along with other guys like Billy Cobham and Dennis Chambers. All killers on the drums. And Tony was before them.
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I guess it surprised me because I'm not a jazz guy, and even I know who Tony Williams is. I guess experience is relative. I figured Emergency! (with Larry young and John McLaughlin) was one of those '69 zietgeist albums that even non-jazz people would have been aware of. Even my dad has a copy in his record collection from his youth. That, along with Miles' In A Silent Way and Bitches Brew, I sort of figured this was mainstream stuff in the late 60's/early 70s. Seminal fusion.
It's almost like admitting you've never heard about any of Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, and Weather Report. Shit, I watched a Jason Newsted interview the other day, and he mentioned how Stanley Clarke was an influence (Tony played on Stanley's 1st solo album). You don't need to be a pure jazzer to know about Tony Williams. I barely know shit about jazz, and I'm well aware of Tony along with other guys like Billy Cobham and Dennis Chambers. All killers on the drums. And Tony was before them.
I never heard of Tony Williams until I read your post. I know who Billy Cobham is though. Spectrum is a cool album :metal
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:tup Indeed. Many drummers I've spoken with are in awe of Billy.
Suppose it just goes to show I'm jaded. I remember reading through the jazz thread on this forum and thinking I have no clue who 90% of these cats are. The 1st time I heard Tony (back in the early 90s) it was on a local prog rock late night radio show. KERA/90.1 out of Denton used to have this prog rock loving DJ on Saturday nights who played mostly (but not limited to) avant prog (Magma, Henry Cow, Thinking Plague, etc). One time he played a track from Tony called "Inspirations of Love" and I remember being blown away by Tony's playing. At that time, I'd never heard anything like what he was doing. He was playing with such rock-like aggression and finesse all around the beat (in front/ behind) but never losing time. I hadn't listened to many jazz drummers so I had no concept of these almost poly-rhythmic floating phrases over the beat. That sort of thing leaves an impression on a young mind.
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I'm going to check out that song!
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I'm going to check out that song!
I'm probably conflating some things regarding his playing (cheating memory and all). I do remember shortly after hearing this being intrigued enough to locate a copy of the Tony William's Lifetime Collection CD, containing both albums "Believe It" and "Million Dollar Legs". I think "Believe It" quickly became one of my favorite albums.
Stanley Clarke's 1st solo album has a piece called "Lopsy Lu" which I think better highlights Tony grooving in the pocket. The tune "Power" from that same album also features a killer groove. To bring things back around to within 2 degree of separation to Jordan's story in the interview....Stanley's album features a keyboard player named... Jan Hammer.
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I guess it surprised me because I'm not a jazz guy, and even I know who Tony Williams is. I guess experience is relative. I figured Emergency! (with Larry young and John McLaughlin) was one of those '69 zietgeist albums that even non-jazz people would have been aware of. Even my dad has a copy in his record collection from his youth. That, along with Miles' In A Silent Way and Bitches Brew, I sort of figured this was mainstream stuff in the late 60's/early 70s. Seminal fusion.
It's almost like admitting you've never heard about any of Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, and Weather Report. Shit, I watched a Jason Newsted interview the other day, and he mentioned how Stanley Clarke was an influence (Tony played on Stanley's 1st solo album). You don't need to be a pure jazzer to know about Tony Williams. I barely know shit about jazz, and I'm well aware of Tony along with other guys like Billy Cobham and Dennis Chambers. All killers on the drums. And Tony was before them.
I didn't discover and enjoy that stuff until nearly 20 years after the fact. I think it depends on what world you're in and what you get exposed to.
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I didn't discover and enjoy that stuff until nearly 20 years after the fact. I think it depends on what world you're in and what you get exposed to.
True. Back in the early 90s I was a HUGE Rush fan and I remember some journalist asshole reviewing of one of the shows from the Bones tour said something to the effect of: "Rush is great when they are not trying to emulate Return to Forever or some other god awful jazz fusion band". This immediately got me interested in the genre. Back in those days, vinyl was super cheap. Found a copy of Romantic Warrior at Half Price records for 25 cents. This was co-incidentally around the same time I became aware of Tony Williams. I have no doubt that any musical path I was on would have eventually lead there. It was Only A Matter of Time ;)
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Wow. He really didn't know who Tony Williams was before he played with him. I guess that's what happens when you get a "classical" training in music. I know jazz wasn't foreign to him as I recall him citing in another interview that he was influenced by Chick Corea's Now He Sings, Now He Sobs -- so he had some knowledge of at least one of the musicians in Miles' circle.
I never knew he played with Tony Williams, that is very cool! I didn't know who Tony Williams was up until about 2 years ago when I started to learn about jazz.
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Ok, I put this on the something I never thought I would ever see list.
Jordan Rudess sharing the stage with Tony Williams playing the Miami Vice Theme. You have to love You Tube!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJpIQ3dituE
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Ok, I put this on the something I never thought I would ever see list.
Jordan Rudess sharing the stage with Tony Williams playing the Miami Vice Theme. You have to love You Tube!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJpIQ3dituE
Thanks for posting that bill! Totally made my day. Tony always played on that yellow kit.
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I didn't discover and enjoy that stuff until nearly 20 years after the fact. I think it depends on what world you're in and what you get exposed to.
True. Back in the early 90s I was a HUGE Rush fan and I remember some journalist asshole reviewing of one of the shows from the Bones tour said something to the effect of: "Rush is great when they are not trying to emulate Return to Forever or some other god awful jazz fusion band". This immediately got me interested in the genre. Back in those days, vinyl was super cheap. Found a copy of Romantic Warrior at Half Price records for 25 cents. This was co-incidentally around the same time I became aware of Tony Williams. I have no doubt that any musical path I was on would have eventually lead there. It was Only A Matter of Time ;)
Oddly enough Return To Forever was my gateway to the jazz-fusion thing (one of them anyway)around '86 or so. Totally opened my eyes to what was possible. Was a Rush fan before that but this was a totally different thing.
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Ok, I put this on the something I never thought I would ever see list.
Jordan Rudess sharing the stage with Tony Williams playing the Miami Vice Theme. You have to love You Tube!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJpIQ3dituE
Thanks! That SMOKED!!! I was never a fan of the show but I do have the 12 inch of that theme around here somewhere. It's just weird seeing Hammer and Jordan on the same stage.
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Oddly enough Return To Forever was my gateway to the jazz-fusion thing (one of them anyway)around '86 or so. Totally opened my eyes to what was possible. Was a Rush fan before that but this was a totally different thing.
Same here! I had a bass playing friend in high school who always sang the praises of Stanley Clarke. He had played me Vulcan Worlds before, but at the time I was sort of disinterested. Had absolutely no understanding of jazz or funk. It wasn't until I heard that Romantic Warrior album that brought me around. I couldn't believe what I was hearing!
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Oddly enough Return To Forever was my gateway to the jazz-fusion thing (one of them anyway)around '86 or so. Totally opened my eyes to what was possible. Was a Rush fan before that but this was a totally different thing.
Same here! I had a bass playing friend in high school who always sang the praises of Stanley Clarke. He had played me Vulcan Worlds before, but at the time I was sort of disinterested. Had absolutely no understanding of jazz or funk. It wasn't until I heard that Romantic Warrior album that brought me around. I couldn't believe what I was hearing!
Romantic Warrior just flat out blew me away. Had no idea up to that point that was possible. Loved Rush, Yes, Emerson, Lake and Palmer/Powell but this was a whole different thing.
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Romantic Warrior just flat out blew me away. Had no idea up to that point that was possible. Loved Rush, Yes, Emerson, Lake and Palmer/Powell but this was a whole different thing.
Hell yeah. I love all the progressive stuff you mentioned. Still do to this day. Along with King Crimson, Genesis, and Gentle Giant ('The Big Five' as I've heard them called).
The run of RTF albums Where Have I Known You Before/No Mystery/Romantic Warrior is sublime. Hymn of The Seventh Galaxy is also pretty great (even though I vastly prefer Al DiMeola to Bill Conners). Also dig the Live one (RTF Live) for all of its super intense extended soloing. There's no guitar there, but Chick and Stanley more than make up for it. Gayle & Stanley's vocals are bit of a drag, but thankfully there's not much of them to endure.
I used to have a 2-CD collection that had some live stuff with Steve Gadd playing with them. I think this was before Lenny joined. Lost it years ago unfortunately.
Great fucking band! :hefdaddy
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Return to Forever is amazing. Of course, Chick Corea can do no wrong in any context.
I also loved Mahavishnu Orchestra. I actually got to see John McLaughlin on his retirement tour, which he co-headlined with Jimmy Herring. Absolutely incredible, all these years later.
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Return to Forever is amazing. Of course, Chick Corea can do no wrong in any context.
I also loved Mahavishnu Orchestra. I actually got to see John McLaughlin on his retirement tour, which he co-headlined with Jimmy Herring. Absolutely incredible, all these years later.
Both Jimmy and John are awesome. I have several Mahavishnu albums. Birds of Fire, Apocalypse, The Lost Trident Sessions (which seems a good replacement for the live one Between Eternity and Nothingness which I lost along with the aforementioned RTF compilation) and no matter how many times I try, I just have trouble getting into them. So bizarre...because this type of music is totally up my alley. For some reason it just doesn't click for me. I tried to listen to Apocalypse again just a few days ago (as I don't remember any of the tunes from that one) and couldn't even make it past the 1st couple tracks. I'll probably just have to concede that it's just not my thing. So weird! But it is what it is. Maybe I'm just not "advanced" enough musically to get it.
I have much better luck with other fusion..for example Gary Husband's 'Dirty & Beautiful' Vols. 1&2 never get old. I mention those 2 albums in particular because they both feature John McLaughlin and Jimmy Herring (along with other guitarist luminaries Alex Machacek, Steve Hackett, Wayne Krantz, Robin Trower, Mike Stern & Allan Holdsworth [rhythm guitar only unfortunately -- no shredding :'( ]) as well as Jan Hammer on keys, Jimmy Johnson and Mark King on bass, Jerry Goodman on violin amongst others... an all star cast of players and a really cool blend of tunes. I recommend this to anyone who's a fan of fusion.
I believe Gary Husband played with McLaughlin's live band, but probably only in the UK (as I don't think Gary has the work visa/permits to do any shows in the States). That's a big problem these days for foreign musicians playing in USA. Along with other reasons, with the advent of social media, its much more difficult for this sort of stuff to slide under the radar anymore. I didn't know about John retiring. :sad: A pity for us. I guess we'll always have the recordings and videos.
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I didn't know about John retiring. :sad: A pity for us. I guess we'll always have the recordings and videos.
Yeah, he said something about his fingers not being as fast as they used to be.
I sure as hell couldn't tell.
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Return to Forever is amazing. Of course, Chick Corea can do no wrong in any context.
I also loved Mahavishnu Orchestra. I actually got to see John McLaughlin on his retirement tour, which he co-headlined with Jimmy Herring. Absolutely incredible, all these years later.
Both Jimmy and John are awesome. I have several Mahavishnu albums. Birds of Fire, Apocalypse, The Lost Trident Sessions (which seems a good replacement for the live one Between Eternity and Nothingness which I lost along with the aforementioned RTF compilation) and no matter how many times I try, I just have trouble getting into them. So bizarre...because this type of music is totally up my alley. For some reason it just doesn't click for me. I tried to listen to Apocalypse again just a few days ago (as I don't remember any of the tunes from that one) and couldn't even make it past the 1st couple tracks. I'll probably just have to concede that it's just not my thing. So weird! But it is what it is. Maybe I'm just not "advanced" enough musically to get it.
I have much better luck with other fusion..for example Gary Husband's 'Dirty & Beautiful' Vols. 1&2 never get old. I mention those 2 albums in particular because they both feature John McLaughlin and Jimmy Herring (along with other guitarist luminaries Alex Machacek, Steve Hackett, Wayne Krantz, Robin Trower, Mike Stern & Allan Holdsworth [rhythm guitar only unfortunately -- no shredding :'( ]) as well as Jan Hammer on keys, Jimmy Johnson and Mark King on bass, Jerry Goodman on violin amongst others... an all star cast of players and a really cool blend of tunes. I recommend this to anyone who's a fan of fusion.
I believe Gary Husband played with McLaughlin's live band, but probably only in the UK (as I don't think Gary has the work visa/permits to do any shows in the States). That's a big problem these days for foreign musicians playing in USA. Along with other reasons, with the advent of social media, its much more difficult for this sort of stuff to slide under the radar anymore. I didn't know about John retiring. :sad: A pity for us. I guess we'll always have the recordings and videos.
I think I dig the Mahavishnu stuff overall more than Return To Forever but for me it all really came together with Romantic Warrior. I really love the balance on that record from everybody. A lot of the other records are great too but I always seem to focus more on one or two musicians rather than everyone.
It probably didn't hurt seeing the Mahavishnu Project multiple times over the last 20 years with Greg Bendian. Not so much a tribute as they played some original stuff with the covers but it was very much in the spirit of Mahvaishnu.
I'm a sucker for good fusion.
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I think I dig the Mahavishnu stuff overall more than Return To Forever but for me it all really came together with Romantic Warrior.
I think my favorite RTF is Where Have I Known You Before. For me it has the perfect balance of composition and fiery playing. That album is perfect in every way. Romantic Warrior I place maybe just ever so slightly underneath that one for the reason that in comparison, it sounds perhaps just a little too polished/sterile. That observation however is the equivalent of holding up a magnifying glass to the finish of a fine car and spotting a nick in the paint!
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I think I dig the Mahavishnu stuff overall more than Return To Forever but for me it all really came together with Romantic Warrior.
I think my favorite RTF is Where Have I Known You Before. For me it has the perfect balance of composition and fiery playing. That album is perfect in every way. Romantic Warrior I place maybe just ever so slightly underneath that one for the reason that in comparison, it sounds perhaps just a little too polished/sterile. That observation however is the equivalent of holding up a magnifying glass to the finish of a fine car and spotting a nick in the paint!
I'm going pull that one off of the shelf and listen to it a little later. Perhaps I've under appreciated it.
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I think I dig the Mahavishnu stuff overall more than Return To Forever but for me it all really came together with Romantic Warrior.
I think my favorite RTF is Where Have I Known You Before. For me it has the perfect balance of composition and fiery playing. That album is perfect in every way. Romantic Warrior I place maybe just ever so slightly underneath that one for the reason that in comparison, it sounds perhaps just a little too polished/sterile. That observation however is the equivalent of holding up a magnifying glass to the finish of a fine car and spotting a nick in the paint!
I'm going pull that one off of the shelf and listen to it a little later. Perhaps I've under appreciated it.
Well in any case, it may just remind you why you rate it lower. I'm curious to hear your thoughts in either case. I don't think the production on that one is even close to the same level as Romantic Warrior, but for me that just makes it sound more "live" and doesn't really detract. Cheers and happy listening! :coolio
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I think I dig the Mahavishnu stuff overall more than Return To Forever but for me it all really came together with Romantic Warrior.
I think my favorite RTF is Where Have I Known You Before. For me it has the perfect balance of composition and fiery playing. That album is perfect in every way. Romantic Warrior I place maybe just ever so slightly underneath that one for the reason that in comparison, it sounds perhaps just a little too polished/sterile. That observation however is the equivalent of holding up a magnifying glass to the finish of a fine car and spotting a nick in the paint!
I'm going pull that one off of the shelf and listen to it a little later. Perhaps I've under appreciated it.
Well in any case, it may just remind you why you rate it lower. I'm curious to hear your thoughts in either case. I don't think the production on that one is even close to the same level as Romantic Warrior, but for me that just makes it sound more "live" and doesn't really detract. Cheers and happy listening! :coolio
You were right. It did remind me. Some of the music and solos are as good if not better than Romantic Warrior, but I'm not much of a fan of the vocals and some of the softer "light" music which gives it kind of a "proto smooth jazz" feel which isn't my favorite thing either. So while I do like some of the instrumental passages as much as Romantic Warrior, overall my opinion hasn't changed much.
It was a fun revisit.
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You were right. It did remind me. Some of the music and solos are as good if not better than Romantic Warrior, but I'm not much of a fan of the vocals and some of the softer "light" music which gives it kind of a "proto smooth jazz" feel which isn't my favorite thing either. So while I do like some of the instrumental passages as much as Romantic Warrior, overall my opinion hasn't changed much.
It was a fun revisit.
You've got me intrigued because you mentioned vocals. I thought I was pretty darn familiar with that record, but don't recall any vocals? If you are referring to the 3 piano interludes 'Where Have I Loved/Danced/Known ...' as the "light" music then that does make a kind of sense. I like those bits because, not only are they Chick doing what he does best (expressive solo piano), but they also provide nice dynamics to the whole package, acting as little segues between the meatier tunes. It makes the whole album one nice journey from start to finish. 'Earth Juice' is probably the only tune on that album that I rate lower than the others, but it's still a nice little band jam/improv (with some cool chord voicings in the intro).
To my mind, the title track for 'Romantic Warrior' is WAY more in the direction of "proto smooth jazz" than ANYTHING on 'Where Have I Known...' It's so much more slick and polished than anything that came before, and showing signs that the band is starting to veer toward the (dreaded) smooth jazz sound. Probably has something to do with it being all acoustic guitar from Al? A great song nonetheless. Never heard MusicMagic which followed RW after Al and Lenny left. I shudder to think of hearing studio versions of those RTF Live ('78) tunes.
Well in any case, glad you had fun re-listening and thank you very kindly for sharing your thoughts! :smiley:
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You were right. It did remind me. Some of the music and solos are as good if not better than Romantic Warrior, but I'm not much of a fan of the vocals and some of the softer "light" music which gives it kind of a "proto smooth jazz" feel which isn't my favorite thing either. So while I do like some of the instrumental passages as much as Romantic Warrior, overall my opinion hasn't changed much.
It was a fun revisit.
You've got me intrigued because you mentioned vocals. I thought I was pretty darn familiar with that record, but don't recall any vocals? If you are referring to the 3 piano interludes 'Where Have I Loved/Danced/Known ...' as the "light" music then that does make a kind of sense. I like those bits because, not only are they Chick doing what he does best (expressive solo piano), but they also provide nice dynamics to the whole package, acting as little segues between the meatier tunes. It makes the whole album one nice journey from start to finish. 'Earth Juice' is probably the only tune on that album that I rate lower than the others, but it's still a nice little band jam/improv (with some cool chord voicings in the intro).
To my mind, the title track for 'Romantic Warrior' is WAY more in the direction of "proto smooth jazz" than ANYTHING on 'Where Have I Known...' It's so much more slick and polished than anything that came before, and showing signs that the band is starting to veer toward the (dreaded) smooth jazz sound. Probably has something to do with it being all acoustic guitar from Al? A great song nonetheless. Never heard MusicMagic which followed RW after Al and Lenny left. I shudder to think of hearing studio versions of those RTF Live ('78) tunes.
Well in any case, glad you had fun re-listening and thank you very kindly for sharing your thoughts! :smiley:
Ha Ha! Again your are correct! Mistakenly pulled Light As A Feather off of the shelf so my previous comments apply to that. Doh!
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You were right. It did remind me. Some of the music and solos are as good if not better than Romantic Warrior, but I'm not much of a fan of the vocals and some of the softer "light" music which gives it kind of a "proto smooth jazz" feel which isn't my favorite thing either. So while I do like some of the instrumental passages as much as Romantic Warrior, overall my opinion hasn't changed much.
It was a fun revisit.
You've got me intrigued because you mentioned vocals. I thought I was pretty darn familiar with that record, but don't recall any vocals? If you are referring to the 3 piano interludes 'Where Have I Loved/Danced/Known ...' as the "light" music then that does make a kind of sense. I like those bits because, not only are they Chick doing what he does best (expressive solo piano), but they also provide nice dynamics to the whole package, acting as little segues between the meatier tunes. It makes the whole album one nice journey from start to finish. 'Earth Juice' is probably the only tune on that album that I rate lower than the others, but it's still a nice little band jam/improv (with some cool chord voicings in the intro).
To my mind, the title track for 'Romantic Warrior' is WAY more in the direction of "proto smooth jazz" than ANYTHING on 'Where Have I Known...' It's so much more slick and polished than anything that came before, and showing signs that the band is starting to veer toward the (dreaded) smooth jazz sound. Probably has something to do with it being all acoustic guitar from Al? A great song nonetheless. Never heard MusicMagic which followed RW after Al and Lenny left. I shudder to think of hearing studio versions of those RTF Live ('78) tunes.
Well in any case, glad you had fun re-listening and thank you very kindly for sharing your thoughts! :smiley:
Ha Ha! Again your are correct! Mistakenly pulled Light As A Feather off of the shelf so my previous comments apply to that. Doh!
Aw shit, that only reminds me I used to own those 1st two RTF albums but lost them. Nevermind, I just found that one here..my replacement copy of Light As A Feather. Yeah, as much as I give props to the whole Flora/Airto/Joe Farrell era of RTF, it really doesn't take off until Lenny and Bill Connors join. There's a version of "Spain" with Steve Gadd playing on that compilation (which I mentioned losing upthread :'() that really slays. I'd still love to hear your take on album #4 - Where Have I Known You Before.
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Here's something interesting that I didn't know (you may have). Apparently before RTF there was a Stan Getz album called 'Captain Marvel' featuring material and personnel (Corea/Clarke/Airto) from those 1st two RTF albums:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFuPGlCVhL0&list=PLv4PEAoZeRvxXVOxGvkQBqkYoBizM3Wys
Interestingly enough the drummer here is none other than Tony Williams. That actually brings us back to within one degree of relevance to the Rudess interview! :coolio
[edit: here they are live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EzAk9M0kko ]
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You were right. It did remind me. Some of the music and solos are as good if not better than Romantic Warrior, but I'm not much of a fan of the vocals and some of the softer "light" music which gives it kind of a "proto smooth jazz" feel which isn't my favorite thing either. So while I do like some of the instrumental passages as much as Romantic Warrior, overall my opinion hasn't changed much.
It was a fun revisit.
You've got me intrigued because you mentioned vocals. I thought I was pretty darn familiar with that record, but don't recall any vocals? If you are referring to the 3 piano interludes 'Where Have I Loved/Danced/Known ...' as the "light" music then that does make a kind of sense. I like those bits because, not only are they Chick doing what he does best (expressive solo piano), but they also provide nice dynamics to the whole package, acting as little segues between the meatier tunes. It makes the whole album one nice journey from start to finish. 'Earth Juice' is probably the only tune on that album that I rate lower than the others, but it's still a nice little band jam/improv (with some cool chord voicings in the intro).
To my mind, the title track for 'Romantic Warrior' is WAY more in the direction of "proto smooth jazz" than ANYTHING on 'Where Have I Known...' It's so much more slick and polished than anything that came before, and showing signs that the band is starting to veer toward the (dreaded) smooth jazz sound. Probably has something to do with it being all acoustic guitar from Al? A great song nonetheless. Never heard MusicMagic which followed RW after Al and Lenny left. I shudder to think of hearing studio versions of those RTF Live ('78) tunes.
Well in any case, glad you had fun re-listening and thank you very kindly for sharing your thoughts! :smiley:
Ha Ha! Again your are correct! Mistakenly pulled Light As A Feather off of the shelf so my previous comments apply to that. Doh!
Aw shit, that only reminds me I used to own those 1st two RTF albums but lost them. Nevermind, I just found that one here..my replacement copy of Light As A Feather. Yeah, as much as I give props to the whole Flora/Airto/Joe Farrell era of RTF, it really doesn't take off until Lenny and Bill Connors join. There's a version of "Spain" with Steve Gadd playing on that compilation (which I mentioned losing upthread :'() that really slays. I'd still love to hear your take on album #4 - Where Have I Known You Before.
Been a bit distracted over the last few days, but I'll get to this and let you know.
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Here's something interesting that I didn't know (you may have). Apparently before RTF there was a Stan Getz album called 'Captain Marvel' featuring material and personnel (Corea/Clarke/Airto) from those 1st two RTF albums:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFuPGlCVhL0&list=PLv4PEAoZeRvxXVOxGvkQBqkYoBizM3Wys
Interestingly enough the drummer here is none other than Tony Williams. That actually brings us back to within one degree of relevance to the Rudess interview! :coolio
[edit: here they are live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EzAk9M0kko ]
Did not know that. Thanks.
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You were right. It did remind me. Some of the music and solos are as good if not better than Romantic Warrior, but I'm not much of a fan of the vocals and some of the softer "light" music which gives it kind of a "proto smooth jazz" feel which isn't my favorite thing either. So while I do like some of the instrumental passages as much as Romantic Warrior, overall my opinion hasn't changed much.
It was a fun revisit.
You've got me intrigued because you mentioned vocals. I thought I was pretty darn familiar with that record, but don't recall any vocals? If you are referring to the 3 piano interludes 'Where Have I Loved/Danced/Known ...' as the "light" music then that does make a kind of sense. I like those bits because, not only are they Chick doing what he does best (expressive solo piano), but they also provide nice dynamics to the whole package, acting as little segues between the meatier tunes. It makes the whole album one nice journey from start to finish. 'Earth Juice' is probably the only tune on that album that I rate lower than the others, but it's still a nice little band jam/improv (with some cool chord voicings in the intro).
To my mind, the title track for 'Romantic Warrior' is WAY more in the direction of "proto smooth jazz" than ANYTHING on 'Where Have I Known...' It's so much more slick and polished than anything that came before, and showing signs that the band is starting to veer toward the (dreaded) smooth jazz sound. Probably has something to do with it being all acoustic guitar from Al? A great song nonetheless. Never heard MusicMagic which followed RW after Al and Lenny left. I shudder to think of hearing studio versions of those RTF Live ('78) tunes.
Well in any case, glad you had fun re-listening and thank you very kindly for sharing your thoughts! :smiley:
Ha Ha! Again your are correct! Mistakenly pulled Light As A Feather off of the shelf so my previous comments apply to that. Doh!
Aw shit, that only reminds me I used to own those 1st two RTF albums but lost them. Nevermind, I just found that one here..my replacement copy of Light As A Feather. Yeah, as much as I give props to the whole Flora/Airto/Joe Farrell era of RTF, it really doesn't take off until Lenny and Bill Connors join. There's a version of "Spain" with Steve Gadd playing on that compilation (which I mentioned losing upthread :'() that really slays. I'd still love to hear your take on album #4 - Where Have I Known You Before.
Been a bit distracted over the last few days, but I'll get to this and let you know.
No kidding. I'm still trying to process it all. My good friend for many years and I had a proper Rush marathon/yell-along yesterday evening. "Shared and evening with a drink and a friend." It's unbelievable. It truly can't even be expressed in words just how important Neil was to us. It's been painful.
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You were right. It did remind me. Some of the music and solos are as good if not better than Romantic Warrior, but I'm not much of a fan of the vocals and some of the softer "light" music which gives it kind of a "proto smooth jazz" feel which isn't my favorite thing either. So while I do like some of the instrumental passages as much as Romantic Warrior, overall my opinion hasn't changed much.
It was a fun revisit.
You've got me intrigued because you mentioned vocals. I thought I was pretty darn familiar with that record, but don't recall any vocals? If you are referring to the 3 piano interludes 'Where Have I Loved/Danced/Known ...' as the "light" music then that does make a kind of sense. I like those bits because, not only are they Chick doing what he does best (expressive solo piano), but they also provide nice dynamics to the whole package, acting as little segues between the meatier tunes. It makes the whole album one nice journey from start to finish. 'Earth Juice' is probably the only tune on that album that I rate lower than the others, but it's still a nice little band jam/improv (with some cool chord voicings in the intro).
To my mind, the title track for 'Romantic Warrior' is WAY more in the direction of "proto smooth jazz" than ANYTHING on 'Where Have I Known...' It's so much more slick and polished than anything that came before, and showing signs that the band is starting to veer toward the (dreaded) smooth jazz sound. Probably has something to do with it being all acoustic guitar from Al? A great song nonetheless. Never heard MusicMagic which followed RW after Al and Lenny left. I shudder to think of hearing studio versions of those RTF Live ('78) tunes.
Well in any case, glad you had fun re-listening and thank you very kindly for sharing your thoughts! :smiley:
Ha Ha! Again your are correct! Mistakenly pulled Light As A Feather off of the shelf so my previous comments apply to that. Doh!
Aw shit, that only reminds me I used to own those 1st two RTF albums but lost them. Nevermind, I just found that one here..my replacement copy of Light As A Feather. Yeah, as much as I give props to the whole Flora/Airto/Joe Farrell era of RTF, it really doesn't take off until Lenny and Bill Connors join. There's a version of "Spain" with Steve Gadd playing on that compilation (which I mentioned losing upthread :'() that really slays. I'd still love to hear your take on album #4 - Where Have I Known You Before.
Been a bit distracted over the last few days, but I'll get to this and let you know.
No kidding. I'm still trying to process it all. My good friend for many years and I had a proper Rush marathon/yell-along yesterday evening. "Shared and evening with a drink and a friend." It's unbelievable. It truly can't even be expressed in words just how important Neil was to us. It's been painful.
Sure has. But the clouds seem to be starting to break.
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I'm late to the fusion party, but I must agree RW was my favorite RTF album as well. They never really replaced Al...after he left it's just not the same. Still good for sure, but something definitely felt like it was missing.
I might need to revisit Where Have I Known as well now that it got mentioned here.
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I'm late to the fusion party, but I must agree RW was my favorite RTF album as well. They never really replaced Al...after he left it's just not the same. Still good for sure, but something definitely felt like it was missing.
I might need to revisit Where Have I Known as well now that it got mentioned here.
Dude. You should check out Where Have I Known. Of the 3 DiMeola albums I've always felt it was the best (that's just me!). So surprised its not better known. If you're a fan of Al with RTF its not something to miss.
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Where have I known you before is also my favourite. I just love the piano interludes breaking up the main songs as well.
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Where have I known you before is also my favourite. I just love the piano interludes breaking up the main songs as well.
Amen to that! Love how the Rudess interview thread has turned into a fusion jazz thread. :lol
Believe it or not, I'm actually wearing a Tony Williams tee shirt as I type this that shows the cover of the album...Believe It.
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Where have I known you before is also my favourite. I just love the piano interludes breaking up the main songs as well.
Amen to that! Love how the Rudess interview thread has turned into a fusion jazz thread. :lol
Believe it or not, I'm actually wearing a Tony Williams tee shirt as I type this that shows the cover of the album...Believe It.
I'm sure Jordan would approve of his thread being hijacked by Jazz-Fusion!
Believe It is a pretty cool album too.
This thread reminds me I still need to listen to Where Have I Known You Before.
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Where have I known you before is also my favourite. I just love the piano interludes breaking up the main songs as well.
Amen to that! Love how the Rudess interview thread has turned into a fusion jazz thread. :lol
Believe it or not, I'm actually wearing a Tony Williams tee shirt as I type this that shows the cover of the album...Believe It.
I'm sure Jordan would approve of his thread being hijacked by Jazz-Fusion!
Believe It is a pretty cool album too.
This thread reminds me I still need to listen to Where Have I Known You Before.
Cool. Glad to see you're still interested! That one, along with No Mystery and Romantic Warrior are the only 3 records with DiMeola on guitar, so they all hold a very special place for me. I'll admit I'm not as thrilled with No Mystery, as there is some stuff on there that I could live without..but I think its probably just personal preferences anyhow. Cheers!
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Feeling a bit guilty about taking over this thread, so I wanted to point out that I bought Jordan's 'Feeding The Wheel' CD when it came out (all those years ago now :eek) and I must say I've gotten a ton of mileage out of it. It's really great! Love the opening cut "Quantum Soup". Contains a riff which sounds related to the LTE Quantum tune -- its that riff which sounds like its taken from Dimeola's "Race with the Devil on a Spanish Highway". At that time I may have even enjoyed it more than the following DT release (6 degrees) when it came out. Took me much longer to warm to that album...probably because Jordan's solo release had built up my expectations so high. And indeed, Jordan's work it is more fusion-y than DT.
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Feeding The Wheel is a fantastic album all around, as is his follow up Rhythm of Time. The only thing that bothers me a bit on FTW is the way the drums are mixed, I would not say that is optimal. But other than that, lots of great stuff.
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Feeding The Wheel is a fantastic album all around, as is his follow up Rhythm of Time. The only thing that bothers me a bit on FTW is the way the drums are mixed, I would not say that is optimal. But other than that, lots of great stuff.
Yeah the drums sound somewhat buried in the mix to my ears. They need more omph. It's not bad enough to ruin the listening experience for me though.
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Definitely not, I still love the album regardless. I would rather them sound the way they do than overly processed/triggered, that's for sure!
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Where have I known you before is also my favourite. I just love the piano interludes breaking up the main songs as well.
Amen to that! Love how the Rudess interview thread has turned into a fusion jazz thread. :lol
Believe it or not, I'm actually wearing a Tony Williams tee shirt as I type this that shows the cover of the album...Believe It.
I'm sure Jordan would approve of his thread being hijacked by Jazz-Fusion!
Believe It is a pretty cool album too.
This thread reminds me I still need to listen to Where Have I Known You Before.
Cool. Glad to see you're still interested! That one, along with No Mystery and Romantic Warrior are the only 3 records with DiMeola on guitar, so they all hold a very special place for me. I'll admit I'm not as thrilled with No Mystery, as there is some stuff on there that I could live without..but I think its probably just personal preferences anyhow. Cheers!
Finally listened to this a few weeks back and it was much better than I remembered it. You were right. Thanks for getting me to revisit it.
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Feeling a bit guilty about taking over this thread, so I wanted to point out that I bought Jordan's 'Feeding The Wheel' CD when it came out (all those years ago now :eek) and I must say I've gotten a ton of mileage out of it. It's really great! Love the opening cut "Quantum Soup". Contains a riff which sounds related to the LTE Quantum tune -- its that riff which sounds like its taken from Dimeola's "Race with the Devil on a Spanish Highway". At that time I may have even enjoyed it more than the following DT release (6 degrees) when it came out. Took me much longer to warm to that album...probably because Jordan's solo release had built up my expectations so high. And indeed, Jordan's work it is more fusion-y than DT.
I've always hoped they would let him do more in the band, but at least he keeps releasing amazing solo albums.
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Where have I known you before is also my favourite. I just love the piano interludes breaking up the main songs as well.
Amen to that! Love how the Rudess interview thread has turned into a fusion jazz thread. :lol
Believe it or not, I'm actually wearing a Tony Williams tee shirt as I type this that shows the cover of the album...Believe It.
I'm sure Jordan would approve of his thread being hijacked by Jazz-Fusion!
Believe It is a pretty cool album too.
This thread reminds me I still need to listen to Where Have I Known You Before.
Cool. Glad to see you're still interested! That one, along with No Mystery and Romantic Warrior are the only 3 records with DiMeola on guitar, so they all hold a very special place for me. I'll admit I'm not as thrilled with No Mystery, as there is some stuff on there that I could live without..but I think its probably just personal preferences anyhow. Cheers!
Finally listened to this a few weeks back and it was much better than I remembered it. You were right. Thanks for getting me to revisit it.
Glad you liked that one! That one and RW are the two RTF records that probably get the most spins from me. Definitely gets into "desert island" territory for me.