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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: KevShmev on October 08, 2019, 03:58:53 PM
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Random poll, but I thought this might be fun.
Close call for me. Train of Thought has aged really well for me, especially considering how much I wasn't a fan at first, and I might consider it their best post-6DOIT album, but it is close. My favorite of the current era could really be any of the three from ADTOE, The Astonishing or Distance over Time depending on what day it is, but it's tough to say that I like any of them more than Train of Thought.
I will say, too, that I am really surprised by how well Train of Thought has aged. :hat
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Wow, this one is not close for me at all. I like Train of Thought. But it is definitely down near the bottom in the DT discography. 2 albums from the Mangini era are in my top 4: ADTOE and DT12. And I'd rank d/t and probably TA above it as well.
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Interesting.
Train of Thought comes down to As I Am (great), Endless Sacrifice (great), Vacant (very good), Stream of Consciousness (my favorite DT instrumental) and In the Name of God (epic). TDS and HTF are "just good" or meh.
ADTOE has my favorite Mangini-era song (BAI), two really good songs (BITS and Outcry), and the rest is either "just good" (OTBOA and BTS) or just meh.
DT12 has the epic Illumination Theory, two really good songs (TLG and AFTR) and four songs that are "just good" (and a couple of mostly throwaway instrumentals.
DOT has a bunch of good songs but nothing that has yet risen to the "great" level (S2N is probably the closest at this point).
TOT has also stood the test of time very well, so I'm going to give it the nod, but it's not a super wide margin.
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ToT for me. It was the first DT album that hooked me, having come from more of a metal background and although I&W eventually overtook it as my #1, it's still my second favourite DT album.
Having said that, ADToE isn't far behind and is my #3 or maybe #4. It would be even closer, but FFH and BMUBMD drag it down a little, whereas I really like all the songs on ToT. Ballads are never my favourites, though I do still enjoy most of them - but for some reason I never liked FFH that much. A better ballad and BMUBMD being a bit shorter could have elevated the album above ToT.
The other MM albums aren't that close - D/T and The Astonishing are middle of the pack and DT12 is towards the bottom.
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Close call;
I would rank ToT and ADToE very closely, near the top of pack, but below their masterpieces (I&W, Awake and SFaM). Musically, ADToE is probably the better of the two, but ToT is more “fun” and I find myself listening to it more.
None of the other Mangini era albums come close in my opinion.
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I think Train Of Thought is awesome...the songs that is. I prefer Live At Budokan, or the many bootleg versions of the songs rather than listening to the actual album. There's something about the production that really seems to downgrade the songs for me.
ADTOE
TA
Train Of Thought
D/T
DT12
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ToT easily. And at their release I would have voted for ADTOE and D/T, but they’ve settled in some since then.
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I think I like every album from the Mangini-era more than TOT. :lol
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I think I like every album from the Mangini-era more than TOT. :lol
Same here.
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ADTOE
DoT (two of my favorite in DT's catalog)
Train of Thought/DT12 (Tie...ITNOG and TBP are two of DT's best songs. Several other excellent songs. A few that are near the bottom as well)
The Astonishing
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Not even close.....
Train of Thought is to me good but not what I want from Dream Theater. It's metal alright but not very much prog. I rank it towards the bottom 3rd of the discography.
During the Mangini era they went out on a limb and did what they wanted, an album that broke new ground but is still definiteley Dream Theater. Fantastic compositions with beautiful recurring themes and fantastic instrumentation. The album also has James LaBrie's finest work in where he portrays multiple characters.
I'm of course talking about The Astonishing which is my favorite album of Dream Theater's discography.
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I loved ToT when it first came out, and loved when most of it was featured on the Budokan DVD. Haven't listened to either in a long time, but I can't go so far as to say they haven't aged well with me.
I love ADTOE, and like the other 3 MM releases very much.
ADToE by a slim margin over ToT.
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As much as I like Train of thought, it doesn't come close to A Dramatic turn of events and The Astonishing.
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Interesting poll, really. I like the songwriting on TOT (on all the Portnoy-era albums actually, apart from FII), the drumming is what ruins it for me (unfortunate, but I have my criteria, and this applies to every Portnoy-era album as well), but you've expected that already didn't you? :D . ADTOE is very close to perfection in every aspect (DT12 is as well), so it gets my vote.
Personal note: Listen to the live version of Endless Sacrifice on the Christmas album vs the album version. Night and day difference IMHO (cleaner execution by everyone, much easier to listen to for me), you might see what I mean (then again, you might not, taste is fine for what it is)
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Train of thought has relatively few songs - out of those seven, one is very short, one is instrumental (excuse me for loving James and wanting some singing in my songs), and another one I simply don't like at all (Honor Thy Father). It's also marred by the famous "wanking", that completely derails for 4-5 minutes Endless Sacrifice for example.
So, while I still like the album and its mood overall, I'd have to take Dramatic or even the experience of The Astonishing over that one.
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Train of Thought
Awesome album, they fully committed to the heavy angle and for me it really works.
The only other album that comes very close is ADTOE, which I also love, but has production issues and is not quite as consistent.
Aside from ADTOE, there is overall a definite step down in quality since TOT for me.
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Subjectively, TA and especially DoT are ahead of TOT for me without question.
Self titled is about equal and ADTOE way worse than TOT.
Objectively though TOT is probably a better album than all of them outside of maybe DoT. I just personally don’t like the style as much but they achieved what they were going for very well.
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What a good thread idea!
Both ADToE and The Astonishing are in my top 4 and The Astonishing rotates with 6DoIT and SFaM for the top spot. So ToT already looses from the get go.
D/T still needs more time for me to rank properly, but overall I like it very much and I would probably rank it higher over all than ToT as well.
DT12 is middle of the road for me but contains some of my favorite DT songs; TBP, AFtR and IT.
I would rank ToT about even with DT12. It is also middle of the road over all, but also contains some of my favorite songs; AIA, SoC and ItNoG.
In fact, if my favorite songs from those two albums were on one album, it would fiercly content with with my top three. We could call it Train of Dream Theater :biggrin:
I love ToT's heaviness and very much appriciate what the band was trying to do with it. I also think the album has aged well and listening to it from beginning to end still makes me excited.
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I like Train of Thought quite a bit, but not as much as A Dramatic Turn of Events.
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Train of Thought had that edge that makes DT special. Octavarium had that edge that makes DT special. Nothing since has had it. Oh, it's been there in places, sure, but never consistently all the way through an album. Distance Over Time is the nearest DT have come, but it ain't no Train of Thought.
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Train of Thought had that edge that makes DT special. Octavarium had that edge that makes DT special. Nothing since has had it. Oh, it's been there in places, sure, but never consistently all the way through an album. Distance Over Time is the nearest DT have come, but it ain't no Train of Thought.
I agree, all the pre-Mangini albums have that special DT thing...and I don't know if it is because I just discovered DT about 4 years ago, but after the initial 2 years of gorging myself on all their music, I have settled in choosing the Mangini music more than the pre-Mangini. Not sure why as my top 5 songs have 3 from pre-Mangini albums. Maybe because I just love ADToE and D/T is still new.
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ToT is tied with Images and Scenes as my favorite DT album so I'm gonna go with ToT. It has a rage, fury and passion that I can really get behind, and really picks me up when I need it to.
I like the Mangini era albums a lot, but not on the level of Tot.
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ToT is an album I don't think I've revisited in its entirety since I was a teenager - well over a decade at this point. I'll take any Mangini era release over it except the self-titled
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ToT was an album I HATED.....i mean loathed on release way back. thought it was completly pandering to one chunk of fans in the base. also just fake as hell. BUT.........over time (i mean over years and years) i grew to love it it so much. In the Name of god being one of my fav DT tunes now.
However. as far as Mangini era goes. the self titled to me is one of my fav albums by anyone. and it wipes the floor with ToT.
Mangini era as a whole has become a bit rocky for me. LOVED Turn of Events than self titled. TA really is the height of bland to me (don't take that to mean i hate. i don't i just find it bland and too damn long) And DOT is a super mixed bag for me.
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I would like to point out that Train of Thought is an excellent driving album.
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I think I like every album from the Mangini-era more than TOT. :lol
Same here.
Thirded
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Not even close.....
Train of Thought is to me good but not what I want from Dream Theater. It's metal alright but not very much prog. I rank it towards the bottom 3rd of the discography.
I say this in the nicest way possible, but can't that be a good thing? Some of my favorite albums ever, by various bands, were ones where I was wanting something else than what they gave me (Awake, for example). And often times, it's not like I can even specifically say, "I wanted this," but after an initial listen or two I thought, "Whatever I wanted, it wasn't this," but time has a funny way of revealing everything. And it's not like I am calling Train of Thought my favorite DT album (it's not) or an all-time great (I can't go that far), but once enough time has passed and I have can look back at it with a little bit of perspective, it can be pretty exciting to realize that one of my favorite bands threw me such a curveball, one that I did not see coming, and for me Train of Thought now falls under that banner. And it's funny to think that when Octavarium was released, I breathe a huge sigh of relief, like, "Okay, this is the Dream Theater I want," as it was balanced, warm and proggy, yet here we are in 2019 and I now consider Train of Thought to the superior record of the two by a pretty good margin.
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I think I like every album from the Mangini-era more than TOT. :lol
Same here.
Thirded
Me as well. But I love Train of Thought - it's a great album. I just think the Mangini albums are even better.
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Not even close.....
Train of Thought is to me good but not what I want from Dream Theater. It's metal alright but not very much prog. I rank it towards the bottom 3rd of the discography.
I say this in the nicest way possible, but can't that be a good thing? Some of my favorite albums ever, by various bands, were ones where I was wanting something else than what they gave me (Awake, for example). And often times, it's not like I can even specifically say, "I wanted this," but after an initial listen or two I thought, "Whatever I wanted, it wasn't this," but time has a funny way of revealing everything. And it's not like I am calling Train of Thought my favorite DT album (it's not) or an all-time great (I can't go that far), but once enough time has passed and I have can look back at it with a little bit of perspective, it can be pretty exciting to realize that one of my favorite bands threw me such a curveball, one that I did not see coming, and for me Train of Thought now falls under that banner. And it's funny to think that when Octavarium was released, I breathe a huge sigh of relief, like, "Okay, this is the Dream Theater I want," as it was balanced, warm and proggy, yet here we are in 2019 and I now consider Train of Thought to the superior record of the two by a pretty good margin.
It could have been, had I been a bigger fan of for instance Metallica and Megadeath.
It's cool enough music and works at certain times but it's not something I choose to listen to too often.
Anyway I'm glad they did record it and I like it. To be in the bottom third of Dream Theaters discography is no mean feat as that means you are in the top third (at least) of all records I have.
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I suppose I'm in the minority on this one.
I understand the criticisms that ToT often gets, and I agree with most of them to a degree. But most of the Mangini era is too inconsistent for me, and often just isn't as compelling as what you get on tracks like Stream of Consciousness or In the Name of God. The album is both more consistently high-energy, but also not as one-note as it seems at first.
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Train of Thought :metal
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Train of Thought :metal
Given that it’s going 30% in a 1v4 poll I think that’s a pretty good showing.
DT has been my favorite band since I&W, but I definitely lean toward metal, and ToT did exactly what it set out to do.
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ToT is almost my least favourite DT (stylistic misfire like TA for me) and DoT is my current go-to DT so no contest afaic.
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Train of Thought is the last of the classic era DT albums IMO. Although it is not a personal favorite, I still consider it to be an album by a band firing on all cylinders in their prime. I listened to it yesterday and really enjoyed it, I lean more prog but as a metal album it's inspired and kicks you in the nuts (in a good way).
After that comes what I consider to be the Dark Ages of DT. A time where the band seemed tired and lacked inspiration. Labrie was starting to lose his vocals and was also being forced to sing in a more metal way and they started to lose their way. While I enjoy stuff on Octavarium, SC, and BC&SL, I started to think DT was done in terms of producing magic.
Then ADTOE sort of bridges the gap between the Dark Ages of DT and a "return to form". IMO ADTOE is the worst DT album but it got them back on track stylistically.
Now I consider DT to be in their "aging but still awesome age" A slightly poor man's version of classic era DT but still great. Each album starting with DT has gotten better and better and DoT almost feels like it could have followed SDOIT. Also, for the first time since SDOIT they produced a song that can arguably be lumped into the "truly classic DT category" in AWE.
Anyways, thats my jumbled up mind spewing thoughts onto the computer :)
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I really enjoy Train of Thought. It's a specific album for DT as it's a straight up metal record and isn't standard DT fare. Not a bad thing at all. I'm a metal guy so TOT fits my palette.
Thant being said, I think Mangini era DT albums are better than TOT. Just my subjective opinion.
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Very easy for me, not only would I take my favourite Mangini era album over Train Of Thought, I would take any Mangini era album over Train Of Thought. I don’t dislike TOT, not at all, but it is one of my least favourite of DT’s albums. Octavarium takes the bottom spot but TOT might just be 2nd from bottom although Black Clouds might just pip it to that spot.
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Very easy for me, not only would I take my favourite Mangini era album over Train Of Thought, I would take any Mangini era album over Train Of Thought. I don’t dislike TOT, not at all, but it is one of my least favourite of DT’s albums. Octavarium takes the bottom spot but TOT might just be 2nd from bottom although Black Clouds might just pip it to that spot.
I pretty much agree with you. ToT is great, but largely not as good as the Mangini era. My only exception is DT12, which I rank even with ToT.
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It could have been, had I been a bigger fan of for instance Metallica and Megadeath.
It's cool enough music and works at certain times but it's not something I choose to listen to too often.
Anyway I'm glad they did record it and I like it. To be in the bottom third of Dream Theaters discography is no mean feat as that means you are in the top third (at least) of all records I have.
Hmmm, I have never really thought of that way. I am not much of a fan of Megadeth (maybe a handful of songs), and would call myself a fan of Metallica, but not a big fan, and yet I would now call myself a pretty big fan of Train of Thought. Heck, I am more of a prog guy than a metal guy, yet my favorite DT album is Awake, which I think most would agree is one of their three heaviest records to date. You just never know what's going grab ya, is the moral of the story. :)
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TOT.
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Even my least favorite Mangini era album (and I'm not even sure which one that would be) I like better than Train Of Thought.
Endless Sacrifice, Stream Of Consciousness and In The Name Of God are great songs though.
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I consider ToT to be one of the best Dream Theater albums, so no comparison for me.
Might be also because it's my first DT album and holds a special place in my heart.
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Train of Thought had that edge that makes DT special. Octavarium had that edge that makes DT special. Nothing since has had it.
Yes.
Train of Thought has become my go-to DT album over the years. (I can even enjoy In the Name of God now. And it doesn't have an insufferable ballad, either.)
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Train of Thought is good but I think A Dramatic Turn of Events, the self-titled album, and maybe even Distance Over Time are better albums.
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I voted for Train Of Thought. I like all of the Mangini-era albums, but Train Of Thought was one of my very first albums by Dream Theater and getting to know it honestly changed my whole life.
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DOT for me (with ToT a close 2nd)
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I am not much of a fan of Megadeth (maybe a handful of songs), and would call myself a fan of Metallica, but not a big fan, and yet I would now call myself a pretty big fan of Train of Thought. Heck, I am more of a prog guy than a metal guy, yet my favorite DT album is Awake, which I think most would agree is one of their three heaviest records to date. You just never know what's going grab ya, is the moral of the story. :)
Kev, I totally get what you are saying, but for me, I'm just the opposite. I'm not a prog guy but I love when DT does it. I like how DT exposes me to prog in a comfortable hard rock setting, just as they dress up their metal side in a Prog framework for you. I'm sure you don't go to DT for your prog, just as I don't go to DT for my metal.
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Endless Sacrifice, Stream Of Consciousness and In The Name Of God are great songs though.
Indeed, they're the only songs I really choose to listen to.
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I am not much of a fan of Megadeth (maybe a handful of songs), and would call myself a fan of Metallica, but not a big fan, and yet I would now call myself a pretty big fan of Train of Thought. Heck, I am more of a prog guy than a metal guy, yet my favorite DT album is Awake, which I think most would agree is one of their three heaviest records to date. You just never know what's going grab ya, is the moral of the story. :)
Kev, I totally get what you are saying, but for me, I'm just the opposite. I'm not a prog guy but I love when DT does it. I like how DT exposes me to prog in a comfortable hard rock setting, just as they dress up their metal side in a Prog framework for you. I'm sure you don't go to DT for your prog, just as I don't go to DT for my metal.
Very true. :hat
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I am not much of a fan of Megadeth (maybe a handful of songs), and would call myself a fan of Metallica, but not a big fan, and yet I would now call myself a pretty big fan of Train of Thought. Heck, I am more of a prog guy than a metal guy, yet my favorite DT album is Awake, which I think most would agree is one of their three heaviest records to date. You just never know what's going grab ya, is the moral of the story. :)
Kev, I totally get what you are saying, but for me, I'm just the opposite. I'm not a prog guy but I love when DT does it. I like how DT exposes me to prog in a comfortable hard rock setting, just as they dress up their metal side in a Prog framework for you. I'm sure you don't go to DT for your prog, just as I don't go to DT for my metal.
Queensryche was another one of the few that did that for me too and then DeGarmo left.
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Train of Thought is the last of the classic era DT albums IMO. Although it is not a personal favorite, I still consider it to be an album by a band firing on all cylinders in their prime. I listened to it yesterday and really enjoyed it, I lean more prog but as a metal album it's inspired and kicks you in the nuts (in a good way).
Interesting, I didn't know there is a good way to be kicked in the nuts. :omg:
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Train of Thought is the last of the classic era DT albums IMO. Although it is not a personal favorite, I still consider it to be an album by a band firing on all cylinders in their prime. I listened to it yesterday and really enjoyed it, I lean more prog but as a metal album it's inspired and kicks you in the nuts (in a good way).
Interesting, I didn't know there is a good way to be kicked in the nuts. :omg:
:rollin
I wish I would have known that when I was 10. "Hey bullies, before you beat me up and kick me in the nuts, please play Train of Thought by Dream Theater first if you don't mind".
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See, I'm a prog guy, but there's a lot of prog I don't like. I'm a metal guy, but there's a lot of metal I don't like (other than Metallica, I find a lot of thrash to be one-note and cartoony). Like TAC, I seem to like it when DT does it; Train Of Thought took a long time to grow on me (I'm an Images and Words/Octavarium fan) but grow it has, and I like it today. It's still in the bottom third of the catalog for me, but I like it. It's hard for me to say that "I like this better than that", because it's all relative, but generally, if I'm going to put on a DT record, it's not going to be ToT, nor is it going to be any of the Mangini-era records. They just haven't clicked with me much.
I'd probably rate them like this:
1. Dream Theater
2a. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
2b. Train Of Thought
3. Distance Over Time
4. The Astonishing
But all of them are well below the crown jewels, which to me are Images And Words, SFAM, Octavarium, Awake, and Six Degrees.
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But all of them are well below the crown jewels, which to me are Images And Words, SFAM, Octavarium, Awake, and Six Degrees.
Take Octavarium out, and you have my top 4 MP era DT albums there. With the exception of FII, that was a flawless album run (from IAW to SDOIT). TOT was a step down in quality, imo.
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But all of them are well below the crown jewels, which to me are Images And Words, SFAM, Octavarium, Awake, and Six Degrees.
Take Octavarium out, and you have my top 4 MP era DT albums there. With the exception of FII, that was a flawless album run (from IAW to SDOIT). TOT was a step down in quality, imo.
Your last sentence really jumped out at me. I don't like TOT nearly as much as either that early run of albums or the Mangini-era run of albums. It ranks near the bottom of DT's discography to me. But I don't feel there is any drop in quality. I just didn't like the overall direction as much as I do most of their other albums. It isn't an issue of quality at all for me.
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But all of them are well below the crown jewels, which to me are Images And Words, SFAM, Octavarium, Awake, and Six Degrees.
Take Octavarium out, and you have my top 4 MP era DT albums there. With the exception of FII, that was a flawless album run (from IAW to SDOIT). TOT was a step down in quality, imo.
Your last sentence really jumped out at me. I don't like TOT nearly as much as either that early run of albums or the Mangini-era run of albums. It ranks near the bottom of DT's discography to me. But I don't feel there is any drop in quality. I just didn't like the overall direction as much as I do most of their other albums. It isn't an issue of quality at all for me.
Well, I'm not implying it's a bad album or anything like that, but I just think that, compared to the other 4 albums I just mentioned, TOT was a step down. Might be because of the direction they took, as you say, and one of my personal issues with the album is that I feel they under-utilized Jordan, and this was after releasing two mindblowing albums in the keyboard department. On most of the heavier tracks/sections he's just doubling the riff and, while he does some pretty amazing stuff anyway, he did SO MUCH MORE on SDOIT that TOT pales in comparison.
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ToT, on the whole, is a step back from the awesome of earlier releases, but it will always have a special place in my heart because of the completely awesome Vacant/Stream of Consciousnesses one-two punch. Jordan is fantastic in SoC and I'm a big fan of instrumentals that explore variations on a main theme.
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In the Name of God is a powerful song.
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In the Name of God is a powerful song.
Yes it is. IMHO it is the best song on ToT and among my favorites in the greater DT discography.
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I like every song on ToT. The only album in the MM era I can say that about is D/T and I prefer that slightly over ToT.
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Very easily Train Of Thought, but then I'd probably take Train of Thought vs. almost any other DT album.
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What’s interesting to me is that I think ToT and D/T had a similar collaborative (and quick) writing process but suffer from almost opposite issues IMO.
Whereas ToT seems a bit over-arranged, songs drag a bit too long, too noodle-y, D/T is almost too straight forward, some of the songs seem like they need more time in the oven.
The fact that ToT was written in 3 weeks is insane. As an intermediate guitar player it could easily take me 3 months to even learn the material, let alone write it. DT are not normal human beings, that much is clear.
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What’s interesting to me is that I think ToT and D/T had a similar collaborative (and quick) writing process but suffer from almost opposite issues IMO.
Whereas ToT seems a bit over-arranged, songs drag a bit too long, too noodle-y, D/T is almost too straight forward, some of the songs seem like they need more time in the oven.
The fact that ToT was written in 3 weeks is insane. As an intermediate guitar player it could easily take me 3 months to even learn the material, let alone write it. DT are not normal human beings, that much is clear.
While I agree with you concerning D/T's pieces needing a bit (or a lot) more time to be fully finished as it were (possibly except PBD and maybe even Out Of Reach), I think TOT might have needed that too, but that's just my opinion (imagine MM playing on that album already, then these songs might have been even more fully worked out, I may be wrong about that as well though). Still, them finishing TOT in 3 weeks was (at the time) impressive, seeing as these songs were quite a bit more dense than quite a few other ones (if that's a fitting descriptive), particularly those pre-Met2.
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I would take Train of Thought over a compilation album of the best Mangini era songs. ToT is amazing.
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The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think Train of Thought might be my least favorite Dream Theater album. That's largely due to the song "Honor Thy Father", which while I can't say it's outright bad, it's easily my least favorite Dream Theater song. The rest of the album is really good, though. However, even though I do enjoy most of the album, something does feel slightly off for most songs. Maybe it's just the usage of swearing in some songs, but something doesn't feel right.
Having said that, TDS, SoC, and ITNoG are all amazing, and As I Am, Endless Sacrifice, and Vacant aren't far behind.
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The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think Train of Thought might be my least favorite Dream Theater album. That's largely due to the song "Honor Thy Father", which while I can't say it's outright bad, it's easily my least favorite Dream Theater song. The rest of the album is really good, though. However, even though I do enjoy most of the album, something does feel slightly off for most songs. Maybe it's just the usage of swearing in some songs, but something doesn't feel right.
Having said that, TDS, SoC, and ITNoG are all amazing, and As I Am, Endless Sacrifice, and Vacant aren't far behind.
Well only speaking for Herrick, LaBrie's voice just doesn't suit "The Heavy Badassery Vibe". But other than that, yeah there is something just a little bit awkward about the whole album. I cannot explain it. This awkwardery doesn't exist on their other heavier songs like A Nightmare to Remember or The Glass Prison. I really hate saying it feels forced, but it feels a bit forced.
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The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think Train of Thought might be my least favorite Dream Theater album. That's largely due to the song "Honor Thy Father", which while I can't say it's outright bad, it's easily my least favorite Dream Theater song. The rest of the album is really good, though. However, even though I do enjoy most of the album, something does feel slightly off for most songs. Maybe it's just the usage of swearing in some songs, but something doesn't feel right.
Having said that, TDS, SoC, and ITNoG are all amazing, and As I Am, Endless Sacrifice, and Vacant aren't far behind.
Well only speaking for Herrick, LaBrie's voice just doesn't suit "The Heavy Badassery Vibe". But other than that, yeah there is something just a little bit awkward about the whole album. I cannot explain it. This awkwardery doesn't exist on their other heavier songs like A Nightmare to Remember or The Glass Prison. I really hate saying it feels forced, but it feels a bit forced.
For me, I don't think it's LaBrie's voice; it sounds perfectly fine. But yeah, with stuff like The Glass Prison, A Nightmare to Remember, and their various other really heavy songs, this awkward feeling isn't there at all.
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I chalk it up to ToT's production, which is pretty sterile. These songs are amazing live.
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Each Mangini-era record beats ToT in my book. I listen to ToT from time to time, but nothing on it is "perfect" in my opinion. Every one of the Mangini albums contains at least one track I condiser to be perfect. (Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Illumination Theory, Barstool Warrior, Lord Nafaryus among others)
ToT definitely has its moments, but I really don't care about some of its shreddy parts (ES, TDS) and I'm not into the production, which sounds way too sterile to me. I'm not into the drum sound of the recent albums (LIKE ADTOE and DoT, dislike the drum tone on the other two), but all other instruments/vox sound great on them. Can't say the same about ToT, especially the vocals.
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Each Mangini-era record beats ToT in my book. I listen to ToT from time to time, but nothing on it is "perfect" in my opinion. Every one of the Mangini albums contains at least one track I condiser to be perfect. (Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Illumination Theory, Barstool Warrior, Lord Nafaryus among others)
ToT definitely has its moments, but I really don't care about some of its shreddy parts (ES, TDS) and I'm not into the production, which sounds way too sterile to me. I'm not into the drum sound of the recent albums (LIKE ADTOE and DoT, dislike the drum tone on the other two), but all other instruments/vox sound great on them. Can't say the same about ToT, especially the vocals.
TOT does not sound sterile to me, rather dirty (similar to D/T and FII), I agree that all MM-era albums beat TOT. You want sterility? I give you DT12. :D
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Each Mangini-era record beats ToT in my book. I listen to ToT from time to time, but nothing on it is "perfect" in my opinion. Every one of the Mangini albums contains at least one track I condiser to be perfect. (Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Illumination Theory, Barstool Warrior, Lord Nafaryus among others)
ToT definitely has its moments, but I really don't care about some of its shreddy parts (ES, TDS) and I'm not into the production, which sounds way too sterile to me. I'm not into the drum sound of the recent albums (LIKE ADTOE and DoT, dislike the drum tone on the other two), but all other instruments/vox sound great on them. Can't say the same about ToT, especially the vocals.
TOT does not sound sterile to me, rather dirty (similar to D/T and FII), I agree that all MM-era albums beat TOT. You want sterility? I give you DT12. :D
technically speaking none of them sound "dirty", (think Surfer Rosa, that is a "dirty" sound), they are all fairly polished
what I meant was the tones themselves, I'm not into JPs sound on DT12, but it's an identifiable and unique tone. ToT thounds so unintersting to my ears, like "metal mix by numbers"; DT12 has a bass tone that is present and interesting, ToT bass is "there" but sounds totally uninspired. Could go on..
I mean I do get your point, DT12 still sounds sterile
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I have never equated DT12 with "sterile."
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I have never equated DT12 with "sterile."
I normally wouldn't either (and I likely chose descriptives I now think weren't fitting in my post, it happens, sorry about that, English isn't my first language, although my German is far worse), what I meant by sterile is that when DT12 came out it seemed to be a common opinion with both fans and critics (in Germany anyway) that DT12 would sound sterile (or lifeless or anything to that effect, which I don't think it does btw. That opinion was mainly attributed to Mike's snare sound among other things) I've always thought it's a well-constructed album that (to me) is timeless, like ADTOE and among my personal favourites. Sorry about the misunderstandings bosk.
Side note: When DT12 came out, I vowed to stop reading reviews of DT albums. I follow that adage to this day.
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Distance Over Time by a mile.
However, had this been pre-DOT, I would have said Train of Thought.
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I am listening to this album for the first time in probably 10 years if not more. I do really like the sound of it. The songs on the other hand... well they are not good (At least the first three). Even the instrumental passages can be a slog. I got through As I Am pretty well, but I had to finally skip forward about 8 minutes into This Dying Soul, and listening to the entire instrumental passage on Endless Sacrifice, lets just say it’s appropriately named. I always thought Honor Thy Father was a pretty cool song (despite the nu-metal portions and lyrics). The groove and vibe remind me a bit of Awake. I also like the Vacant/Stream of Conscious/In the Name of God run well enough (though ITNOG is also kind of a slog. It could have been paired back to like an 8 minute track probably). I’d say outside of This Dying Soul and Endless Sacrifice it’s a pretty strong metal album. It’s not something I’d choose to listen to more than once a decade or so, but it does bring back some good memories.
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Oh boy, Endless Sacrifice and In the Name Of God are my two favorite DT songs and far from "slogs" compared to many other epics they've written, imo.
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I guess this thought fits in this thread, since it is "Mangini-era" related in general: I was just struck by the consistency and quality of the music in this era of the band this morning. I listened to D/T, and just let my music player continue on from there. So it then went, in order, to ADTOE and DT12. Hearing these three albums in succession, it is just incredible to me how good this run of music has been since Mangini joined. Not a bad or skippable song in the bunch on these 3 albums, or even a song where I find myself tuning out waiting for the next one. I've not listened to TA this morning yet, but probably will do so in a bit. It is definitely more of a "peaks and valleys" type of album, where there are definitely valleys that I don't care for as much. But such a special and spectacular album as a whole. I really just cannot say enough about the music this band has been creating since Mike joined.
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I guess this thought fits in this thread, since it is "Mangini-era" related in general: I was just struck by the consistency and quality of the music in this era of the band this morning. I listened to D/T, and just let my music player continue on from there. So it then went, in order, to ADTOE and DT12. Hearing these three albums in succession, it is just incredible to me how good this run of music has been since Mangini joined. Not a bad or skippable song in the bunch on these 3 albums, or even a song where I find myself tuning out waiting for the next one. I've not listened to TA this morning yet, but probably will do so in a bit. It is definitely more of a "peaks and valleys" type of album, where there are definitely valleys that I don't care for as much. But such a special and spectacular album as a whole. I really just cannot say enough about the music this band has been creating since Mike joined.
I agree with everything you said, what a run. Long may these continue. (I do skip Viper King and Room 137 though sometimes). The peak and valley aspect of TA was intentional though (according to what Jordan said about the album during some interview in 2016 that I can't remember fully. Sorry about that)
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Yeah, I'll give you Viper King. But I kind of give it a pass as something "different" by virtue of it being a "bonus track."
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Yeah, I'll give you Viper King. But I kind of give it a pass as something "different" by virtue of it being a "bonus track."
of course, and there may come a day where I'll find and appreciate the humour in it and that may make it easier for me to like the piece. (some guy on here said to me that my sense of humour was removed at birth (probably not true) and that I didn't like VK (true, for now...) IMHO, I think our guys got their power back during this run of albums (I always thought that everything post-Met2 seemed to be a bit lacklustre (for lack of a better word) to me)
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Imo they have a streak of three bland albums, ADTOE was still very good. The awesome period for me was 1999-2012
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Imo they have a streak of three bland albums
Wrong thread. This is the DT subforum. I think you are thinking of Haken.
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Could be them too. I've never listened to them.
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I guess this thought fits in this thread, since it is "Mangini-era" related in general: I was just struck by the consistency and quality of the music in this era of the band this morning. I listened to D/T, and just let my music player continue on from there. So it then went, in order, to ADTOE and DT12. Hearing these three albums in succession, it is just incredible to me how good this run of music has been since Mangini joined. Not a bad or skippable song in the bunch on these 3 albums, or even a song where I find myself tuning out waiting for the next one. I've not listened to TA this morning yet, but probably will do so in a bit. It is definitely more of a "peaks and valleys" type of album, where there are definitely valleys that I don't care for as much. But such a special and spectacular album as a whole. I really just cannot say enough about the music this band has been creating since Mike joined.
I agree with everything you said, what a run. Long may these continue. (I do skip Viper King and Room 137 though sometimes). The peak and valley aspect of TA was intentional though (according to what Jordan said about the album during some interview in 2016 that I can't remember fully. Sorry about that)
I have to admit to skipping a good chunk of ADTOE on most listens. BMUBMD is hit or miss for me, and I just can't get past that opening section of LNF. I usually skip TITL and FFH simply because I want to get to what comes next, and I sometimes skip BTS (although I like it quite a lot) because I think BAI is a perfect end to the album. On DT12, I'll sometimes skip Enigma Machine. It's good live, but it doesn't have the hooks that are found in pretty much every other DT instrumental. On DOT, I'm not a huge fan of Paralyzed and FITL, but the only song I'm likely to skip is R137.
AND, since this thread is also about TOT, I almost always will skip Honor Thy Father.
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I guess this thought fits in this thread, since it is "Mangini-era" related in general: I was just struck by the consistency and quality of the music in this era of the band this morning. I listened to D/T, and just let my music player continue on from there. So it then went, in order, to ADTOE and DT12. Hearing these three albums in succession, it is just incredible to me how good this run of music has been since Mangini joined. Not a bad or skippable song in the bunch on these 3 albums, or even a song where I find myself tuning out waiting for the next one. I've not listened to TA this morning yet, but probably will do so in a bit. It is definitely more of a "peaks and valleys" type of album, where there are definitely valleys that I don't care for as much. But such a special and spectacular album as a whole. I really just cannot say enough about the music this band has been creating since Mike joined.
I would agree with this generally. For me, each album has one or two tracks that either don't interest me or I actually don't like. But the consistency level is incredibly high.
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I would agree that the band has been pretty consistent since Mangini joined, but on the flip side, their highs are not quite as high as they used to be. I would say most of the songs from the last four albums would rate as 7 or 8 out of 10, with a few 9's. Contrast that to the 1992-2002 era, when 9's and 10's were the norm. But that is okay. Bands rarely do their absolute best work in albums 11-14, and DT is no different in that regard, but they are also different in that most bands that make it to that many albums do not make albums 11-14 as good as ADTOE-D/T have been.
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I would agree that the band has been pretty consistent since Mangini joined, but on the flip side, their highs are not quite as high as they used to be. I would say most of the songs from the last four albums would rate as 7 or 8 out of 10, with a few 9's. Contrast that to the 1992-2002 era, when 9's and 10's were the norm. But that is okay. Bands rarely do their absolute best work in albums 11-14, and DT is no different in that regard, but they are also different in that most bands that make it to that many albums do not make albums 11-14 as good as ADTOE-D/T have been.
Isn't that subjective, though?
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I would agree that the band has been pretty consistent since Mangini joined, but on the flip side, their highs are not quite as high as they used to be. I would say most of the songs from the last four albums would rate as 7 or 8 out of 10, with a few 9's. Contrast that to the 1992-2002 era, when 9's and 10's were the norm. But that is okay. Bands rarely do their absolute best work in albums 11-14, and DT is no different in that regard, but they are also different in that most bands that make it to that many albums do not make albums 11-14 as good as ADTOE-D/T have been.
Isn't that subjective, though?
All of this is.
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I would agree that the band has been pretty consistent since Mangini joined, but on the flip side, their highs are not quite as high as they used to be. I would say most of the songs from the last four albums would rate as 7 or 8 out of 10, with a few 9's. Contrast that to the 1992-2002 era, when 9's and 10's were the norm. But that is okay. Bands rarely do their absolute best work in albums 11-14, and DT is no different in that regard, but they are also different in that most bands that make it to that many albums do not make albums 11-14 as good as ADTOE-D/T have been.
Isn't that subjective, though?
Of course. Do we really need to go back to pointing out that everything we say is our opinion? :P
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I would agree that the band has been pretty consistent since Mangini joined, but on the flip side, their highs are not quite as high as they used to be. I would say most of the songs from the last four albums would rate as 7 or 8 out of 10, with a few 9's. Contrast that to the 1992-2002 era, when 9's and 10's were the norm. But that is okay. Bands rarely do their absolute best work in albums 11-14, and DT is no different in that regard, but they are also different in that most bands that make it to that many albums do not make albums 11-14 as good as ADTOE-D/T have been.
I can get on board with this.