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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on August 12, 2019, 10:03:40 AM
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Why do most mothers want to defend their kids from condemnation even if they're doing some very bad or wrong things in their life?
In your opinion, is that natural, normal?
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Oh lord.
Do you mean PARENTS? Cause dads do this too.
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Oh lord.
Do you mean PARENTS? Cause dads do this too.
Yeah, but mothers do it more.
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You’re lucky this forum is like 99% men.
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Oh lord.
Do you mean PARENTS? Cause dads do this too.
Yeah, but mothers do it more.
Really? I have not heard this.
I'm guessing that it may have something to do with the concept of unconditional love. But since there are loads of shit parents out there, that obviously doesn't apply across the board.
Maybe giving a more detailed example of what you are talking about could help this discussion.
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This thread should be fun.
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I think the reason that parents do it is they see the child as an extension of themselves. So when the child is criticized, they take it as criticism toward themselves personally.
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Why do most mothers want to defend their kids from condemnation even if they're doing some very bad or wrong things in their life?
In your opinion, is that natural, normal?
I can only assume you're an alien from Ganymede to be this oblivious to the nature of motherhood/parenthood, my dude
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:corn
I'm not sure how the answer isn't obvious... They're kin. They're apart of you, in a lot of ways a reflection of you, of your parenting, etc. Of course they're protective. "Defensive" is an odd word to use. I've got a feeling there's a specific circumstance surrounding why this thread was created and the way it was worded, but maybe it was just an oddly worded, random thought.
It's a pretty basic question that's super broad. Excluding the "mother/women" part, that part is weird and offensive.
Right now I'm picturing WildRanger throwing eggs at a child, screaming at the mother saying "CONTROL YOUR CHILD!" and then the mother gets "defensive".
Actually that's definitely what happened. As for the "mother/women" part, it's because women are scientifically weaker both mentally and physically because of their vaginas. I feel like that's an acceptable answer for such an oddly stated question. I'd like to think this is all bait but... :-\
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Why do most mothers want to defend their kids from condemnation even if they're doing some very bad or wrong things in their life?
In your opinion, is that natural, normal?
Huh?
Why are you asking about mothers and not fathers? What makes you think that "most mothers" want to do this "even if [their children are] doing some very bad or wrong things in their life [sic]"?
Yeah, but mothers do it more.
Please cite the statistics that support this assertion (or admit that you're just making stuff up).
Regardless, trying to posit a one-size-fits-all answer to this question would be utter folly.
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I think the reason that parents do it is they see the child as an extension of themselves. So when the child is criticized, they take it as criticism toward themselves personally.
I came here to write this. PARENTS, not "mothers" or "fathers".
I'm not sure I buy into the premise of the OP, but I do acknowledge an increasing level of "Not MY kid!" in terms of the response to what some would call bad behavior (but others might rightly say are "life lessons"). Increasingly, if Junior doesn't ace the SATs, it's not that Junior is a dumbass, but that "the teachers failed". If Junior doesn't make the team, it's not because Junior can't walk and chew gum at the same time, it's that Coach has a grudge against Junior.
As much as I'm an attorney and I love to argue, it's not really my best role to be my kid's consigliere as she navigates high school. At some point kids have to learn that life isn't about "guardian angels" sweeping in to make everything all better. Even IF the teacher blows or the coach is a vindictive f***, unfortunately the world is full of people who are shitty at their job or that have the intellectual maturity of a 12-year-old.
(I do draw the line at more severe things like criminal activity and what not; when my middle daughter was bullied at school, I had no hesitation in standing up for her with the administration, including involving the police, and would do it again.)
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I will defend my children to the ends of the earth, regardless of what they may do someday. It's what my parents did for me when I did dumb things when I was younger, and it's probably what ANY other parent would do.
Doesn't take away that they may have done something wrong, but it certainly doesn't mean that I have to willfully stand aside when they do.
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The thread would have been much more accessible and interesting if the title included fathers in this and posed a more specific question of "to what extent do you defend your children". As is, it really just seems like bait and/or (pardon the perceived insult/lack of grace) ignorance.
I'm more interested now in what spurred the thread and if it is in fact just a massive jack off or if WildRanger really thinks that women defend their children more than men and if that has to do with women being women or if there's a specific circumstance behind the thread's creation.
Because I'll be damned if I haven't seen some fathers defend some seriously deplorable actions by their sons. On the opposite end of the spectrum, dads like mine have supported me getting better through my alcoholism and kept me alive while a lot of other people threw me by the wayside and said I was useless trash that should be forgotten. All the while, my mother was in blissful drunkenness throughout it all (and still is) with not a care in the world towards either myself or anyone else. Case in point, what the fuck is with this thread? :lol Everyone has their own circumstance, situation and can probably both define and defy the status-quo in one way or another. Again, way too broad of a question with an apparently biased and awkward preamble.
I defer to my egg-throwing hypothesis.
Also, in reference to Stadler's usual great post, I can see Hitler's dad sitting in a rocking chair, cigar in one hand, cup of scotch in the other.... "Eh...the kid had a bad few years". :lol
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Not my parents. If an authority figure (teacher, counselor, etc.) said I did something wrong, they let me have it, no exceptions and usually no explanations.
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Yeah. I’m kind of holding off commenting too much until a bit more clarification is made as to context. I can tell you as a parent of 8, 12 and 13 year old boys.....I find myself calling out and correcting them more than defending.
I only defend in moments where I know they were in the right or not doing anything that warranted criticism. But objectivity is a hard lens to look through when it comes to ‘your’ kids.
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Stadler nailed it.
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Mothers will LOVE their sons even if they're murderers, criminals, rapists, fascists, etc.
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Revisiting this a bit; I have a daughter that is in what I consider an abusive relationship and will likely be going through a divorce at some point and another daughter that is halfway through her first year of college.
SPOILER ALERT: MASSIVE OVERSHARE! MASSIVE OVERSHARE! :)
I have never, in my life, ever felt so helpless as a man and as a father. I could, I suppose, drive down and get up in the grill of that husband. What does that solve? Does my kicking his ass (let's play along) solve anything long term? I need to provide her with the information I have - legal, social, familial - and hope she makes a good decision long term. I suppose I could make calls to the university and be 'that guy', but what would that prove? I can't make teachers give her good grades, I can't make her first sorority choice want her. And more importantly, even if I could, who does that help?
I love both of them, but they WILL have people in this world they cannot convince. They will have jobs they won't get. They will have relationships that just aren't as loving as on That's So Raven, where every disagreement is solved in 22 minutes with a party at the end. I find myself spending a LOT of time in therapy seeking understanding that sometimes you have to endure pain in order to grow and become stronger.
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Mothers will LOVE their sons even if they're murderers, criminals, rapists, fascists, etc.
You resurrected this nonsense after five months to write this?
I'll pose my inquiry again and maybe you won't ignore it:
Please cite the statistics that support any assertion you've made in this thread (or admit that you're just making stuff up).
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Mothers will LOVE their sons even if they're murderers, criminals, rapists, fascists, etc.
I have to ask, did you come from another planet? Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a mother's unconditional love for their children? Motherly love isn't dictated by laws or morality. Mothers love their children because the child is literally a part of them.
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Mothers will LOVE their sons even if they're murderers, criminals, rapists, fascists, etc.
I have to ask, did you come from another planet? Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a mother's unconditional love for their children? Motherly love isn't dictated by laws or morality. Mothers love their children because the child is literally a part of them.
And because they love them they have to try to defend them and justify their bad deeds? So they are very biased?
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Mothers will LOVE their sons even if they're murderers, criminals, rapists, fascists, etc.
I have to ask, did you come from another planet? Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a mother's unconditional love for their children? Motherly love isn't dictated by laws or morality. Mothers love their children because the child is literally a part of them.
And because they love them they have to try to defend them and justify their bad deeds? So they are very biased?
I think you should ask your supervisors if you can observe x1 hoo-man family for a few years and take notes.
Seriously... mothers just love their kids. They can acknowledge they do terrible things and still love their child. That's called motherly love...
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Mothers will LOVE their sons even if they're murderers, criminals, rapists, fascists, etc.
I have to ask, did you come from another planet? Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a mother's unconditional love for their children? Motherly love isn't dictated by laws or morality. Mothers love their children because the child is literally a part of them.
And because they love them they have to try to defend them and justify their bad deeds? So they are very biased?
Stop dodging my inquiry: Please cite the statistics that support any assertion you've made in this thread (or admit that you're just making stuff up).
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Life was better before this thread got bumped and I then read through it for the first time :facepalm:
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Life was better before this thread got bumped and I then read through it for the first time :facepalm:
I've suggested repeatedly in the past that you all not feed the trolls by responding to their threads, but people ignore that and respond anyway, so... :dunno:
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If he is a troll, why havent you banned him then? If he continues to make threads, I take that the mods are OK with it and its not a troll and therefore I participate for the lols.
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If he is a troll, why havent you banned him then? If he continues to make threads, I take that the mods are OK with it and its not a troll and therefore I participate for the lols.
100% this
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That's fine, and that's why I let it stay. But I see inconsistency when people complain on one hand, but then "participate for the lols," on the other hand.
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I complain, then it gets added to my new replies feed and I can follow for fun since these threads immediately go off topic and can be entertaining in their own way. I don't know why it has to be one or the other here (complaint vs. for the lols).
I guess I can add a comment "following" to do the same thing, but that's kind of a waste of a post if I have an opinion to state on the matter, or a complaint about it.
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Well I am a mom..I love my 19 y/o even though he is into Rap - even went to a Travis Scott concert with him.....this was the true test - :mehlin
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I'll just chime in to say that I have never once heard a mother say her child was stupid, ugly, or obnoxious, even though plenty of them are at least one. It's rare, but I have heard fathers offer up fair assessments of their kids.
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I'll just chime in to say that I have never once heard a mother say her child was stupid, ugly, or obnoxious, even though plenty of them are at least one. It's rare, but I have heard fathers offer up fair assessments of their kids.
You’ve never met my aunt. She’d describe her daughter worse than Stads would describe the journalistic standards of CNN.
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I'll just chime in to say that I have never once heard a mother say her child was stupid, ugly, or obnoxious, even though plenty of them are at least one. It's rare, but I have heard fathers offer up fair assessments of their kids.
I would say virtually all parents (mom's included) think their kids act obnoxious or stupid from time to time.
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I'll just chime in to say that I have never once heard a mother say her child was stupid, ugly, or obnoxious, even though plenty of them are at least one. It's rare, but I have heard fathers offer up fair assessments of their kids.
Ugly is one you never hear from a mother and I'm OK with that. You have no say in your looks and its likely you got your looks from one of the parents. The obnoxious and stupid ones are rare but I've heard them used though from both parents. I'm not sure I agree at all that moms are worse offenders than dads here though. I've seen maybe more Dad's being scary obsessive with their sons who can do no wrong than moms in general.
At the end of the day, it's parents being protective of their children. I think it's at least part instincts but also a mix of arrogance and ignorance sometimes too.
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Ugly is one you never hear from a mother and I'm OK with that.
Ooooh, I'm glad you haven't met them. Luckily, my mom is normal. But yes, some moms (and dads) have no boundaries when it comes to disparaging their children, and "ugly" is not as low as they go, usually.
Even though I disapprove of parents who stop at nothing to defend their children even when they are despicable criminals, at least I can understand and sympathize, and this is why we have (or try to have) unbiased law enforcement, juries, and so on. But parents that go out of their way to crush their child's spirit, I consider that evil, and I can't understand it.
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Mothers will LOVE their sons even if they're murderers, criminals, rapists, fascists, etc.
I have to ask, did you come from another planet? Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a mother's unconditional love for their children? Motherly love isn't dictated by laws or morality. Mothers love their children because the child is literally a part of them.
And because they love them they have to try to defend them and justify their bad deeds? So they are very biased?
I would just like to point out that at no point in this answer is there a denial of coming from another planet.
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That you know of human.
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Ugly is one you never hear from a mother and I'm OK with that.
Ooooh, I'm glad you haven't met them. Luckily, my mom is normal. But yes, some moms (and dads) have no boundaries when it comes to disparaging their children, and "ugly" is not as low as they go, usually.
Even though I disapprove of parents who stop at nothing to defend their children even when they are despicable criminals, at least I can understand and sympathize, and this is why we have (or try to have) unbiased law enforcement, juries, and so on. But parents that go out of their way to crush their child's spirit, I consider that evil, and I can't understand it.
Yea, sadly I'm sure these people exist. It's sad if parents are the opposite of what the OP is stating and they are just super offensive towards their kids. That's also no way to raise a child IMO. Calling your kid ugly just does nothing IMO. A little fib about being "beautiful" can really help a kids confidence, even if it's only coming from their parents. That's my thoughts from a non parent.
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I feel like we had a similar conversation at the P/R threat a few months ago.
All I will say is that dealing with low income community in NYC, I've witnessed plenty of mothers insulting their kids in front of me, sometimes asking a 3 year old "Are you F***ing stupid?" because the kid asked for food.
Kattelox: I understand what you mean by motherly love, but that only applies when the mother had the kid because they wanted one. Not because they ended up pregnant by accident and ended up having a child they were not ready for.
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Kattelox: I understand what you mean by motherly love, but that only applies when the mother had the kid because they wanted one. Not because they ended up pregnant by accident and ended up having a child they were not ready for.
I dunno about you... but I know a lot of mothers who accidentally got pregnant but still love their child regardless of whether they were ready for them or not. I fiercely disagree that it 'only' applies when they wanted the kid before they got pregnant.
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I should've worded that differently. I didn't mean to say that motherly love only applies to woman who are looking to have a kid. Some learn to love the kid during the pregnancy, others the moment the kid is born and others as the kid is growing up.
But some mothers just never get to that point.
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If all mothers showed their kids unconditional love and support, I'd be out of a job.
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Kattelox: I understand what you mean by motherly love, but that only applies when the mother had the kid because they wanted one. Not because they ended up pregnant by accident and ended up having a child they were not ready for.
I dunno about you... but I know a lot of mothers who accidentally got pregnant but still love their child regardless of whether they were ready for them or not. I fiercely disagree that it 'only' applies when they wanted the kid before they got pregnant.
Yeah...I'm the product of a rainy night at the drive-in and two bored teenagers. Pretty sure I wasn't planned and my mother was/is incredibly loving and supportive.
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Kattelox: I understand what you mean by motherly love, but that only applies when the mother had the kid because they wanted one. Not because they ended up pregnant by accident and ended up having a child they were not ready for.
I dunno about you... but I know a lot of mothers who accidentally got pregnant but still love their child regardless of whether they were ready for them or not. I fiercely disagree that it 'only' applies when they wanted the kid before they got pregnant.
Nothing scientific about this, but in my limited, empirical experience, there's little correlation between "unconditional love" and "accidental pregnancies". I defer to Adami on this, but in my experience, the "unconditionality" of parental love is more tied to the relationship of mom to HER parents.
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There are some parents not equipped to handle children. I've seen that 1st hand with my niece and nephew. When a parent is narcissistic and only think about themselves it can be a bad situation. It's just in their DNA.
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Kattelox: I understand what you mean by motherly love, but that only applies when the mother had the kid because they wanted one. Not because they ended up pregnant by accident and ended up having a child they were not ready for.
I dunno about you... but I know a lot of mothers who accidentally got pregnant but still love their child regardless of whether they were ready for them or not. I fiercely disagree that it 'only' applies when they wanted the kid before they got pregnant.
Nothing scientific about this, but in my limited, empirical experience, there's little correlation between "unconditional love" and "accidental pregnancies". I defer to Adami on this, but in my experience, the "unconditionality" of parental love is more tied to the relationship of mom to HER parents.
Definitely. That's certainly more Adami's area of expertise than mine, but I can't disagree with that based on my own experience.
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Kattelox: I understand what you mean by motherly love, but that only applies when the mother had the kid because they wanted one. Not because they ended up pregnant by accident and ended up having a child they were not ready for.
I dunno about you... but I know a lot of mothers who accidentally got pregnant but still love their child regardless of whether they were ready for them or not. I fiercely disagree that it 'only' applies when they wanted the kid before they got pregnant.
Nothing scientific about this, but in my limited, empirical experience, there's little correlation between "unconditional love" and "accidental pregnancies". I defer to Adami on this, but in my experience, the "unconditionality" of parental love is more tied to the relationship of mom to HER parents.
Sometimes. Sadly there's no direct scientific correlation. No "if you do XYZ" your kid will be alright and become a great parent themselves. A mom can have the best parents in the world and still turn out to be a horrible mom herself. Or a mom can have cold distant parents and turn out to be the most warm loving mother in the world. There are just endless variables.
But, one constant is whether they agree or disagree with you. Good moms will always disagree with you Stads. Always.
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I can live with that. :) :)
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Kattelox: I understand what you mean by motherly love, but that only applies when the mother had the kid because they wanted one. Not because they ended up pregnant by accident and ended up having a child they were not ready for.
I dunno about you... but I know a lot of mothers who accidentally got pregnant but still love their child regardless of whether they were ready for them or not. I fiercely disagree that it 'only' applies when they wanted the kid before they got pregnant.
Nothing scientific about this, but in my limited, empirical experience, there's little correlation between "unconditional love" and "accidental pregnancies". I defer to Adami on this, but in my experience, the "unconditionality" of parental love is more tied to the relationship of mom to HER parents.
When in the hell were you fucking pregnant?
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Kattelox: I understand what you mean by motherly love, but that only applies when the mother had the kid because they wanted one. Not because they ended up pregnant by accident and ended up having a child they were not ready for.
I dunno about you... but I know a lot of mothers who accidentally got pregnant but still love their child regardless of whether they were ready for them or not. I fiercely disagree that it 'only' applies when they wanted the kid before they got pregnant.
Nothing scientific about this, but in my limited, empirical experience, there's little correlation between "unconditional love" and "accidental pregnancies". I defer to Adami on this, but in my experience, the "unconditionality" of parental love is more tied to the relationship of mom to HER parents.
When in the hell were you fucking pregnant?
I have a past. :)