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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: MinistroRaven on July 20, 2019, 08:15:03 PM
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I don't know if there's a thread for these, but tonite I am watching Keith Thurman vs. Manny Pacquiao fight (for the belt) and thought to start one for all things fights.
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Tonite I am watching UFC on FOX Sports and they have DT Our New World feat Lzzy Hale in the background. Someone on Fox Sports love DT because every weekend they play DT
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Resurrecting this "unconscious" thread (such as it is) because:
1- I am a combat sports fan, esp. mma, and esp. UFC
2- Even though there were no replies from these two posts from well over a year old....wondering if there are new members who might be into these sports as well.
Was I wrong?
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I used to have no interest in UFC, but after starting Jiu Jitsu its become way more interesting. Now that I know what's going on, lol
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I used to have no interest in UFC, but after starting Jiu Jitsu its become way more interesting. Now that I know what's going on, lol
Exactly where I was until I watched more and learned about the nuances. The analysts can really help a would be fan gain a better understanding.
I think a lot of people still equate the UFC as sheer carnage (which it certainly can be in any fight), but there are a lot of technical elements many of the fighters incorporate into their game (esp. when considering all of the different martial arts represented).
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The only big news I'm hearing is that Mcgregor lost his last fight and that one of the Paul Brothers from Youtube infamy is fighting Floyd Mayweather? Yep. That's all I got to contribute. Sorry.
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Sandhagen's flying knee on Frankie Edgar! :hefdaddy
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I was always a Sugar Ray Leonard guy. Leonard/Hearns fight was the best fight I've ever seen. Throw in Roberto Duran and you've got a golden era for middleweights. Hagler was certainly the best of them. He never really got the recognition that he deserved because people avoided fighting him, which was pretty understandable. He was the total package. He was known as a brawler, and excelled in that role. The Hearns/Hagler fight is one of the all-time greats, and it's Hagler fighting like a barbarian. He was also a whole lot smarter than people gave him credit for. He really understood what was going on in the ring, and was able to adapt as needed. Throw in his ability to switch from his natural southpaw to an orthodox style with ease and finesse, and those smarts made him as much a chess player as a fighter in the ring. The Hagler/Leonard fight is a great example of that. Two highly intelligent fighters doing their best to outbox one another, rather than strictly trying to beat each other up (though Hagler certainly wanted some of that, too). Almost every round one of them changed styles to try and counter the other, and neither could really get ahead. It's a perfect example of smart boxers boxing. And to top all of that off, you really couldn't hurt the guy. He was like Mongo. "Oh no, don't do that, don't do that. If you shoot him, you'll just make him mad." This is a guy that fought 67 bouts and never got knocked down, much less knocked out. The only way to beat Hagler was to try and survive fifteen rounds and hope you outscored him. Not many pulled that off.
Since he's been retired for 35 years it's hard to say he'll be missed. He really should be remembered, though. He was absolutely one of the legends.
People who haven't seen it should check out Hagler/Hearns. Hell, people who have should watch it again. It's not like it's a major commitment of time, and as has been said many times, it's the best first round of boxing anybody's ever seen.
https://youtu.be/ASe3GTXgC1o?t=284
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I was always a Sugar Ray Leonard guy. Leonard/Hearns fight was the best fight I've ever seen. Throw in Roberto Duran and you've got a golden era for middleweights. Hagler was certainly the best of them. He never really got the recognition that he deserved because people avoided fighting him, which was pretty understandable. He was the total package. He was known as a brawler, and excelled in that role. The Hearns/Hagler fight is one of the all-time greats, and it's Hagler fighting like a barbarian. He was also a whole lot smarter than people gave him credit for. He really understood what was going on in the ring, and was able to adapt as needed. Throw in his ability to switch from his natural southpaw to an orthodox style with ease and finesse, and those smarts made him as much a chess player as a fighter in the ring. The Hagler/Leonard fight is a great example of that. Two highly intelligent fighters doing their best to outbox one another, rather than strictly trying to beat each other up (though Hagler certainly wanted some of that, too). Almost every round one of them changed styles to try and counter the other, and neither could really get ahead. It's a perfect example of smart boxers boxing. And to top all of that off, you really couldn't hurt the guy. He was like Mongo. "Oh no, don't do that, don't do that. If you shoot him, you'll just make him mad." This is a guy that fought 67 bouts and never got knocked down, much less knocked out. The only way to beat Hagler was to try and survive fifteen rounds and hope you outscored him. Not many pulled that off.
Since he's been retired for 35 years it's hard to say he'll be missed. He really should be remembered, though. He was absolutely one of the legends.
People who haven't seen it should check out Hagler/Hearns. Hell, people who have should watch it again. It's not like it's a major commitment of time, and as has been said many times, it's the best first round of boxing anybody's ever seen.
https://youtu.be/ASe3GTXgC1o?t=284
Wow... never knew that. Unbelievable.
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Well, I wasn't going to watch the money-grubbing fight that is Logan Paul vs Mayweather, but I heard that Mauro Ranallo (whose a good wrestling commentator, was a MMA commentator, and has called Showtime fights before) was doing the play by play, so I decided what the hey. This could end up being even a bigger farce than McGregor vs Mayweather or if you go back in time in history, Antonio Inoki vs Muhammad Ali.
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I know who the players (the Paul brothers and Mayweather) are, but don't follow them. From what I understand, the one brother is the real deal in MMA, and this is the other brother fighting Mayweather. I don't know if it will be "farce" or not, but it's hard to not factor in the "out of the ring" variables on this one. I can see Mayweather coasting and drawing this one out, as opposed to trying for the quick end.
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I know who the players (the Paul brothers and Mayweather) are, but don't follow them. From what I understand, the one brother is the real deal in MMA, and this is the other brother fighting Mayweather. I don't know if it will be "farce" or not, but it's hard to not factor in the "out of the ring" variables on this one. I can see Mayweather coasting and drawing this one out, as opposed to trying for the quick end.
It completely was. And not to mention Showtime lost service and many people couldn't watch the fight they payed for. :lol
I myself, just laughed hard, because I view boxing/UFC matches as a total cash grab. At least wrestling shows matches for free... :lol
I know a bit about fighting styles, it's why I liked fighting games like Tekken and modern Mortal Kombat, as these games have actual fighting styles. Tekken, has more of a diversity of styles, while Mortal Kombat focuses on the Asian Styles of fighting, like Drunken Monkey for Bo Rai Cho. It's how I fell in love with my favorite style of fighting....Capoeira.
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I mean I enjoyed the commentary. When they talked about Mayweather taking on someone bigger than in, Mauro Ranallo referenced him taking on the Big Show (whose billed to weigh over 400 pounds) at Wrestlemania 24 (that event was 13 years ago!!! Gosh, it still feels like a recent event) where Floyd was booked to win the wrestling match via knocking Big Show out with brass knuckles. Back to the fight on Sunday, that Paul brother looked really gassed out as the fight progresses, but went the distance, which is how I guess that was the best case scenario to feed both guys' egos and to piss off the people that were moronic enough to actually purchase it.
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From what I understand, the one brother is the real deal in MMA, and this is the other brother fighting Mayweather.
That is a misunderstanding. Neither are real deals in MMA.....at least not in any organized fashion of which I am familiar.
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From what I understand, the one brother is the real deal in MMA, and this is the other brother fighting Mayweather.
That is a misunderstanding. Neither are real deals in MMA.....at least not in any organized fashion of which I am familiar.
Well, with the understanding that I don't have the first idea what I'm talking about :) , I thought the older brother had several fights under his belt and has done well in them. If I'm wrong, then that's all on me.
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From what I understand, the one brother is the real deal in MMA, and this is the other brother fighting Mayweather.
That is a misunderstanding. Neither are real deals in MMA.....at least not in any organized fashion of which I am familiar.
Well, with the understanding that I don't have the first idea what I'm talking about :) , I thought the older brother had several fights under his belt and has done well in them. If I'm wrong, then that's all on me.
One of the reasons I enjoy coming here....as with the old MP forum.....is the learning. Invariably, someone here will know something about something.....that you aren't altogether certain about.
Yeah, trying to figure out if there's another brother combo you may be mistaking for the Pauls? I know there's quite a few in MMA that have talented siblings in other sports....but most of them are not prominent names.
One big name in the UFC....considered by many to be the PFP GOAT in the sport....is Jon Jones. He has TWO brothers who play in the NFL. That's impressive.
And then there are several brothers (and sisters) in MMA. Of the ones that might be more recognizable...
NICK AND NATE DIAZ - Probably the most known....if for no other reason Nate submitting Conor McGregor a few years ago (a loss The Notorious one would avenge a few months later). But his older brother Nick was a pioneer of early UFC.
RODRIGO AND ROGERIO NOGUEIRA - Twins. Affectionately referred to as Big Nog and Little Nog. Both high ranked fighters at one time in the UFC.....they are fighting legends in Brazil.
ANTONINA AND VALENTINA SHEVCHENKO - Valentina is a multi-time UFC champion, and an absolute destroyer in the octagon (her nickname is Bullet, and she's from Russia, so...). Antonina is also in the UFC, though not quite on par with her older sister.
FRANK AND KEN SHAMROCK - Like Nick Diaz...both were progenitors of the UFC.
ANTHONY AND SERGIO PETTIS - from Milwaukee. Anthony (Showtime) Pettis was WEC and UFC champion....known for his flashy fighting techniques. His little brother Sergio is an accomplished fighter in his own right, ranked in the top 10 in UFC at one time....and now with Bellator MMA.
There are a few others, but not nearly as well known.
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I was at Ward/Gatti III. Mindblowing.
Also saw Ward vs. Emanuel Augustus in a 10 round bloodbath. I remember ESPN replayed this fight the friday night after 9/11. The sweat hit me 20 rows away. They both threw over 100 punches each round. Knees buckled and no one went down.
When the last bell rang fights broke out all over the hall. It was animal magnetism. Electric.
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Leonard vs Diaz just a few mins ago man!!! What a fight.
Waiting for Adesanya vs Vettori
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Leonard vs Diaz just a few mins ago man!!! What a fight.
Waiting for Adesanya vs Vettori
Like the way you merged Leon Edwards into Leonard. :laugh: I think that has a lot to do with his relative anonymity.....despite being one of the best fighters in the UFC.
I didn't think it was a great fight until the last 2 minutes. Diaz hit him CLEAN, and Edwards was doing the chicken dance. Diaz seemed to hesitate after hurting him bad with that shot. Had he pressured immediately....I think he may have been able to stop him.
But yeah.....up to that point it was a whitewash by Edwards. It was ENTERTAINING.....just because of the buzz with Diaz, his shenanigans (walking away and posturing at very odd angles), and his ridiculous ability to deal with damage.
Vettori vs Adesanya was about as expected.....though I think a lot of people thought Vettori would do to Adesanya what he did late in the first fight.....and throughout his last fight with Kevin Holland. That is to say.....take Adesanya down at will, and ground and pound. Last Stylebender showed he learned some things from the Blachowicz fight....his takedown defense MUCH improved (NASTY elbows!), and even when he was on his back.....he acquitted himself quite nicely. If he does THAT against every super strong guy like Vettori....he's going to continue to dominate the middleweight division.
How about Moreno taking the flyweight crown from Figueiredo? First Mexican born champion in the UFC....awesome! Such a great kid too! Figueiredo very classy in defeat.
Also, Paul Craig dislocating the arm of Jamahal Hill....and it flopping around like a RUBBER arm, while he's locked in an alligator roll.....all the while getting hammer fisted repeatedly in the face. That's a tough night!
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Anyone excited about McGregor-Poirier 3? :corn
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Anyone excited about McGregor-Poirier 3? :corn
Ooo...What an ending. And the one time I watch a UFC PPV event. My cuz invited me to watch and he ordered it.
I ended up laughing at Bam-Bams intro song.
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Quite anti-climatic end, but I think Poirier would've won in the end. He won that first round IMO.
That Mountinho fight was insane. The caught so many punches to the face and kept going. That was the fight of the night for me.
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I cannot stand Connor McGregor and it was quite satisfying to watch him lose and even better that he whined like a bitch afterwards :corn
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I think him losing the way he did is better for his image then flat out losing to Poirier. He'll always say he would've won had he not broken his ankle/leg.
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I cannot stand Connor McGregor and it was quite satisfying to watch him lose and even better that he whined like a bitch afterwards :corn
You'd whine like a bitch too if your leg did this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ydT8wjBc/FB-IMG-1626020234372.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygkKRFD8)
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Quite anti-climatic end, but I think Poirier would've won in the end. He won that first round IMO.
That Mountinho fight was insane. The caught so many punches to the face and kept going. That was the fight of the night for me.
Poirier would have likely stopped him in the second round. He was beating the shit out of him to that point where his leg snapped like a crisp, cold, pea pod. McGregor started off aggressively, with plenty of leg kicks and his trademark pressure. But Poirier was patient. He has matured so much in the last few years. He knew Conor would gas eventually, and you were already seeing signs of that happening. The guillotine was a desperate move. And the problem with that move from the sitting position is.....if you don't finish it, you're going to get mounted and likely get some ground and pound. Which is exactly what happened.
They can run it back, and give McGregor another chance to lose if they want. But if I'm Poirier and I beat Oliviera for the title (which will be a serious undertaking)....I tell Dana White, you better pay me BIG to fight this classless clown again.
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That Mountinho fight was insane. The caught so many punches to the face and kept going. That was the fight of the night for me.
Yeah, and the kid was rewarded for his incredible effort (as a human punching bag).....75 G's. O'Malley's striking is INSANE. 80% strikes landed....that is utterly ridiculous (no matter how aggressive your opponent). It had to be discouraging for him not get that kid out of there earlier....he thought he had it won after the first when Mountinho staggered to his stool.
Yes, serious heart by the kid. Reminded me of Dan Hooker vs Edson Barboza. If you want to see perhaps an even worse beating....go watch that fight. Hooker did not take quite as many strikes, but the power/velocity in Barboza's kicks = a Virgil Donati drum solo. And he kept coming forward like a zombie too. Basically collapsed from too many kicks and punches to the body. It was BREW-TULL.
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Bearing in mind I did not watch the fight, but I did see the picture and heard the news (3.5 hour surgery to repair the leg) but what's the uproar? Paul Stanley was tweeting like McGregor took a shit on the canvas and called Poirer's wife a slut. I read a Yahoo article that talked about Poirer helping bring water to pygmy's in his down time; by that measure I'm a classless boor too. What gives?
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Bearing in mind I did not watch the fight, but I did see the picture and heard the news (3.5 hour surgery to repair the leg) but what's the uproar? Paul Stanley was tweeting like McGregor took a shit on the canvas and called Poirer's wife a slut. I read a Yahoo article that talked about Poirer helping bring water to pygmy's in his down time; by that measure I'm a classless boor too. What gives?
The uproar is more about McGregor's persona in general, rather than anything he said or did leading up to the fight/last night (even though there were plenty of things). He's so polarizing that if you are on the negative perception side of the fence with this guy.....anything he says or does just gets amplified.....and his critics have a field day accordingly. I recognize that is part of his "schtick" anyway, so it's not like it doesn't just feed the Conor ego/hype machine.
I think it's more than just fans of UFC and fighting that get annoyed....it's a lot of people who aren't even fight fans who might watch his antics/false bravado and think, wow....what an asshole. This also extends to the fighters themselves....esp. those who fight him and listen to his taunting and head games (he took it to a new level with the Mayweather fight, but again, yes.....he's laughing all the way to the bank). Poirier in particular....he confessed that he let Conor get in his head in their first fight years ago. McGregor knocked him out, and Poirier felt like he lost his focus because he let the emotions get the best of him.
There's also resentment from other fighters seeing what he makes per fight, when they know it's more about the show with him than the fighting (Poirier mentioned how he considers himself a "fighter" and McGregor a "show"). The "trickle down" from his success has not made it to their pocketbooks on that level (even the ones who are clearly better than him), although it could be argued the overall growth of the sport....whether because of or in spite of McGregor and his personality....helps them, if for no other reason it keeps the UFC solvent/relevant (the transition from Fox to ESPN one example). I think their objection is, to them, it IS about the integrity of the fighting....not about the hype. They don't want MMA to go the way boxing did years ago with Don King, over the top hype, and sketchy outcomes.
The irony is, McGregor has serious credentials. He's still one of the top 5 fighters in his very crowded weight division....despite the losses he's racked up lately. But when you consider those losses are to Poirier (twice)...who is #1 ranked contender and fighting for a title his next fight.... and Khabib Nurmagomedov, who has said he is retired---but is/was considered by many to be the best pound for pound fighter in the UFC....those are "qualified" losses. In between, he destroyed Donald Cerrone (albeit in the twilight of his career), and seemed to have "rededicated" himself to MMA and fighting in the UFC/regaining his lost titles. Conor still has very good hands (there's a reason why he survived an entire fight against Mayweather, despite the boxing lesson overall) and kicks. What he doesn't have is great cardio like Khabib and Poirier. Those guys are elite level in that area....that's why they win. McGregor can't sustain his high level of striking, so if he doesn't get you early (like he does with most opponents), he gasses out and the better conditioned fighter can assert themselves in those later rounds (like Nate Diaz did a few years ago). I will give him credit....he will fight. He doesn't duck dudes....and according to him he still wants another crack at Poirier. But one has to wonder what he might possibly bring to the table that he DIDN'T in the last two fights.....not to mention how much this injury could affect his game moving forward. He's not a spring chicken anymore. And the worst part...yes, he lost to the best fighters, but he not only lost....he got his ass kicked badly each time. That's usually a cue for winding down a career.
So yeah, he's over the top. He's brash and loud and obnoxious. He brags and talks shit about his opponents. There are other fighters who have or do this now of course, but he's got that perceived swag about him.....the strut he does in the octagon before the fight is the stuff of campy legend. Joe Rogan mentioned that he preferred the "angry" Conor, but was also quick to point out the disingenuous nature of it all. It's one thing if you can back it up (Ali for example)....but when you start losing, and you still talk trash....pretty soon the swag equity runs out. He's there now to some extent....but likely refuses to acknowledge it as long as he continues to move the sports world's imagination needle. I think he's a colorful character, still. But his best fighting days are well behind him....and the other fighters have caught up and/or surpassed him. He DID finish Poirier early in their first fight, as he did with most of his other opponents (former champ Jose Aldo in 13 seconds!)....for awhile he was fighting as impressively as Rhonda Rousey was for a few years. Dominant. Seemingly unbeatable. But like Rousey with the SHOCKING KO loss to Holly Holmes, the writing is on the wall. She read it....and moved on to take advantage of her celeb (professional wrestling, movies). But you have to wonder if Proper#12 is enough to satisfy this man's insatiable ego. If not, then he either has to accept a lesser status in the ACTUAL fighting game and fight guys he can beat.....or he has to do more than just rededicate, he has to reinvent himself (ie work on a better ground game/improve his cardio to their level). The question is.....with a cool $160 million earned this year alone.....does he still have THAT kind of drive to compete at the championship level? There's something to be said for "hunger", so if I were a betting man.....I would say no way he ever becomes champion again.
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THat's interesting; thanks for taking the time to lay that out. I don't know, but I seem to be with you; the incentive decreases as you get older and the defeats mount up.
But your explanation also points out that there is a LOT of hyperbole around this guy. I'm a big fan of Paul Stanley, and generally appreciate his insight, but he was pretty vociferous in condemning this guy, as if he actually did something that caused material harm to someone else. Talking smack or posing before/during/after a fight (especially one where you got your leg destroyed and could not continue) is not that.
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I agree with the thought that he will never be champ. When he did the Mayweather fight that was the turning point IMO. He got a fat payday and his celebrity skyrocketed, while his hunger to be competitive diminished. Also as time goes by it's becoming more and more apparent he is simply an asshole (taking punching an old guy in a bar for example).
Dana loves him though. If you watch the post-fight conference Dana says that Poirier gets a chance at the belt (as he should) but then he'll go at Conor again. That's bullshit IMO, Conor needs to earn that back and while it's unfortunate about his leg this was his shot.
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Stadler, you're welcome. Oh yeah, TONS of hyperbole (a good portion of which is self created, though to be fair.....he had his original Irish fans from the get go). You don't cross over into another mainstream sport and compete at its absolute highest level (even if they are so closely related) unless there is enough hype to justify the move. It's unfortunate that kind of thing is such a circus (the Mayweather "fight"). They had multiple press conferences and big, outdoor rallies leading up to it....that were primarily designed to give McGregor a chance to "showcase" his profanity laced tirades. It was one of the most hyped up exhibitions is sports history.
And so yes....I agree with ReaperKK about that fight being pivotal in his relative downfall in the UFC. Not that he wasn't training and working on his craft, but it wasn't on par with the other guys in his weight class. Which is interesting....because he came up as a featherweight, and completely dominated at that weight. It wasn't until he moved up to lightweight, that the problems started (despite being a belt holder at that weight simultaneously). He was going against bigger guys, but also better too. The lightweight division is STACKED. Most of the fighters in the top 10 of that weight class would likely beat his ass these days.
I agree with him, too....that Conor needs to earn that back. But yes, Dana still loves him and will likely allow the shortcuts. What I found interesting, though....is that Poirier in his classy post presser said that he still wanted to fight McGregor again. Didn't like the way it ended in this fight....and he's still pissed about the comments he made before the fight.
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I cannot stand Connor McGregor and it was quite satisfying to watch him lose and even better that he whined like a bitch afterwards :corn
You'd whine like a bitch too if your leg did this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ydT8wjBc/FB-IMG-1626020234372.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygkKRFD8)
Nah, dude, I'd be too busy hyperventilating and probably having a heart attack from the pain. :lol
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That's starting to be a common injury, it seems...
So did the fight end because of that leg injury? (Sorry if that's a dumb question).
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I'd be screaming like Ned Flanders. :lol
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That's starting to be a common injury, it seems...
So did the fight end because of that leg injury? (Sorry if that's a dumb question).
Well, not really. They were kind of letting him keep going but then Poirier nailed him with a couple of really solid shots to the head and McGregor was on the ropes and not even defending himself so the ref stepped in to stop it. Poirier's team is saying that Poirier broke McGregor's leg when he blocked one of McGregor's kicks. But of course they'd say that. I only caught the highlights not the entire fight, which was only 1 round, I think.
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That's starting to be a common injury, it seems...
So did the fight end because of that leg injury? (Sorry if that's a dumb question).
Yes, it ended. Not a dumb question since my guess is you were thinking more in terms of how the end of the fight was decided TECHNICALLY. As it was happening live, Herb Dean's assessment was to just stop the fight, period. So at that point, since McGregor is simply sitting on his ass (understandably...nobody that understands mixed martial arts is questioning the grit of any UFC fighter, including McGregor) pointing at his leg AND could not continue to fight....it was deemed a TKO (could not continue). But McGregor was (literally) screaming (among other things) about was that it should be considered a doctor's stoppage, so it didn't look like he got his ass kicked (which he clearly was toward the latter half of the round). Not sure if they changed the designation because of his lobbying, but it's really a moot point to anyone who watched that round with an objective eye. I'm sure he was hoping it would be changed to a "no contest" because of injury (therefore not being officially counted as a loss), but that certainly would not apply in this case. That is reserved for fighters who sustains injuries due to something illegal the other fighter put forth. Poirier simply "checked" the kick....that is to say he blocked the primary force of the kick to the shin/calf by lifting his leg to a particular angle that creates more impact to the kicker than the "kickee". That impact was what ostensibly broke his leg.
And you're right, it's becoming more common among aging fighters. Some of it is the relative deterioration of the bone naturally, but it can also be attributed to poor technique by the kicker.....and precise defense by the opponent. Anderson Silva did it several years ago....ironically to this man, Chris Weidman, who kicked Uriah Hall so hard a few months ago he had a DOUBLE compound fracture (immediately)....and didn't even know it until he stepped on it. As graphic as the McGregor photo is....it's not as shockingly visceral as the video of Weidman's injury. I get queasy just thinking about it, and I don't recommend anyone view it at all, but if you're a vicarious sadist.....I would try to watch it with an empty stomach. :censored
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The Weidman leg break made me queasy. I remember watching it when it happened and I didn't register what happened and why they wouldn't pan the camera to him so I thought it was serious. Then the slow motion replays came on, simply brutal.
For those that haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKAc1qPu9CU
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Anyone watching the couple of PPVs? The cards are STACKED to say the least: 5 championship bouts in a 6 week span. Not to mention fight nights are looking strong too.
I'm fairly new to the sport (~3 years) but this seems to be one of the most competitive times for UFC.
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Anyone watching the couple of PPVs? The cards are STACKED to say the least: 5 championship bouts in a 6 week span. Not to mention fight nights are looking strong too.
I'm fairly new to the sport (~3 years) but this seems to be one of the most competitive times for UFC.
Sorry I missed this earlier. Yes, Ortega Volkanovski was crazy....T City had him locked up several times and Volkanovski just refused to tap!
But you're right, the fight nights were also good....esp. the Dern Rodriguez card. I was surprised Dern could not submit Rodriguez when they were on the ground for over 4 minutes in the second round.
Disappointed in the Santos Walker fight...I thought there would be more fireworks. But both guys were tentative.
Costa vs Vettori should be good. Both guys coming off losses to Last Stylebender. The Costa loss was in September of 2020 and he has not fought since. I doubt if this fight will go the distance.
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No talk about Wylder/Fury two weeks ago. I randomly ate dinner at a sports bar in Niagara Falls that night and wound up hanging out there 'til 0100 to catch it. Probably wouldn't have bothered if I were home, but fate dropped me off in front of it, surrounded by excited Hosers, so it seemed like the thing to do. Good time and good fight. Pretty exciting opening 12 minutes. Don't recall seeing two boxers both knock each other down multiple times over the first 4 rounds before. It was like Hagler/Hearns if they were heavyweights. Beyond that it wasn't much of a fight. Honestly, Wylder had no business going out for the 11th. It was over and the only thing left to determine was if he lost on points or incurred some brain damage in the far more likely knockout. Either the ref or his corner should have called it after 10.
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I think pushing boxing to PPV has hurt the sport. These quick knock outs in the main events makes fans hesitant to spend the money.
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I realize this thread is not the most popular one.....but I was hoping to get feedback on the UFC judges from yesterday. Both the Vera-Sandhagen and the Andrea Lee vs Maycee Barber fight. Anyone watch these?
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I realize this thread is not the most popular one.....but I was hoping to get feedback on the UFC judges from yesterday. Both the Vera-Sandhagen and the Andrea Lee vs Maycee Barber fight. Anyone watch these?
I watched the fights and while I may not completely agree with the final decisions made by the judges, I can understand why they were reached, as both fights were incredibly close and could have gone either way. Ultimately, the judges had a difficult task, and I respect their judgment even if I may have had a different view of the outcomes. Nonetheless, it was an exciting night of fights
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I realize this thread is not the most popular one.....but I was hoping to get feedback on the UFC judges from yesterday. Both the Vera-Sandhagen and the Andrea Lee vs Maycee Barber fight. Anyone watch these?
I watched the fights and while I may not completely agree with the final decisions made by the judges, I can understand why they were reached, as both fights were incredibly close and could have gone either way. Ultimately, the judges had a difficult task, and I respect their judgment even if I may have had a different view of the outcomes. Nonetheless, it was an exciting night of fights
Well, the Lee-Barber fight was fairly close.....though I thought Lee won every round. The fans were booing during the octagon interview with Barber.
The Vera-Sandhagen fight was NOT CLOSE. That was the most egregious scoring....that it was a split decision? Sandhagen DOMINATED that fight. A lot of people had it 50-45 for him....including one of the judges. One had it 49-46 Sandhagen (which, even then I'm wondering what round he thought Vera won???). The 3rd judge had it 48-47, inexplicably, for Vera. Dana White expressed a lot of disbelief on that one.....saying in the press conference post fight "I came out of the bathroom, heard split decision and said to myself....what the fuck?"
I think when a fight is close, there's enough subjectivity to where you could see it going either way. But every metric favored Sandhagen by a WIDE margin (he had over twice the amount of significant strikes, almost 3 times total strikes, and had 3 takedowns to none....was not close) .....but also the eye test. You never thought Vera was even in the fight. He got in a few clean shots here and there....and then had a flurry in the last 20 seconds of the fight. But overall, about the only thing you could say for him is that he was moving forward. He was totally baffled by Sandhagen's lateral movements and stance changes.
However anyone views it, there's a consensus right now that the judges need more scrutiny/accountability. One of the judges for the Lee fight was referee Dan Mirgliotta (working that night, but not on this fight). He had it 30-27 Barber. That even drew the ire of former referee John McCarthy.....who said on his radio show that he didn't know what fight his former compatriot was watching.
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After rewatching the fight, I can definitely see where you're coming from regarding the scoring, especially in the Vera-Sandhagen fight. It seems like Sandhagen was the clear winner, but the scoring didn't reflect that.
I completely agree that the judges need more scrutiny and accountability. It's frustrating to see fighters work so hard and then have the outcome of their fights be decided by questionable judging. Hopefully, this issue will be addressed and fixed soon.
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After rewatching the fight, I can definitely see where you're coming from regarding the scoring, especially in the Vera-Sandhagen fight. It seems like Sandhagen was the clear winner, but the scoring didn't reflect that.
I completely agree that the judges need more scrutiny and accountability. It's frustrating to see fighters work so hard and then have the outcome of their fights be decided by questionable judging. Hopefully, this issue will be addressed and fixed soon.
Impressed that you rewatched and came to that conclusion. 100% about the frustration of the fighters! At least the rogue judge with the Sandhagen fight did not cost Cory the victory. With Lee, you could tell she was shocked at the decision. She was outstruck, but made up for that with 5 takedowns (to only 1 for Barber). No, she didn't do a whole lot as far as ground and pound, but was advancing and improving position. She had several minutes of top control. Barber on the other hand, could not keep Lee down.
Certainly the argument is valid.....don't leave it in the hands of the judges. Some fighters are technical and not necessarily finishers.....and often the other fighters are hard to KO or submit. But to be fair, she should not have been surprised by the decision. To her credit, though...she was very classy in bitter defeat. Barber.....although rather matter of fact about the outcome in her octagon interview....did acknowledge Lee as a super tough opponent.
I do feel bad for Lee....I think the frustration extends to the fans when they live vicariously through the sport (essence of a true fan).
I think this is why a lot of fighters have left the UFC and gone to Bellator or One Championship (that, and more opportunity). One Championship, in particular....if the fight goes to a decision.....they judge the fights holistically, not round by round. That in and of itself does not mean there still won't be inequities, but I think it's a better way to score the fights.
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Yeah, I totally rewatched that fight and d*mn, it was frustrating to see those judges make such a controversial call. But you know what, at least Sandhagen still got the win, so it wasn't a total disaster.
As for the Lee vs. Barber fight, man, that was a tough one. Lee definitely had some solid takedowns and control on the ground, but Barber was throwing some serious heat on the feet. And I gotta admit, I was a little surprised when they gave the decision to Barber, but hey, that's how it goes sometimes.
It's definitely tough when fights go to a decision, 'cause there's always the chance that the judges will mess it up. I totally get why some fighters are ditching the UFC and heading over to Bellator or One Championship.
For those not following One Championship, the holistic approach is basically that instead of scoring fights round by round, they judge fights taking into account the entire duration of the fight and considering factors like near finishes, striking superiority, and grappling dominance.
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Anyone see the score cards for the Kai Kara France v. Amir Albazi fight over the weekend? One of the worst calls I've seen in a while.
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Anyone see the score cards for the Kai Kara France v. Amir Albazi fight over the weekend? One of the worst calls I've seen in a while.
Sorry, there's so few posts here that I missed this earlier. Yeah, for sure....I thought Kara France won for sure. Jamaal Emmers was robbed against Jack Jenkins yesterday (though Jenkins fought well). I guess looking at it pragmatically....I'll quote MinistroRaven from his last post here---"but hey, that's how it goes sometimes".
But I guess that's my question....WHY does it go like that on the ones that seem pretty clear? Of course there is nuance, and things we don't see octagon side. But I wonder A) if the judges are paying close attention throughout the fights B) if they are competent enough in their assessments to make a discerning call on every fight C) if they are instructed to look for certain things in a fight and weigh them subjectively, instead of looking at the fight as a whole
On that last point, I have heard Rogan talk repeatedly about taking the entire fight into account. A fighter might squeak by with 2 rounds of better scoring, but get beat clearly in the other round (but not enough for a 10-8). I guess it's the same way in many other sports. A tennis player could lose more games total in a match, but win 2 sets to 1.
I've mentioned it before, but bears repeating to bolster this argument.....damage shouldn't always be the clear decider. Often it should be...esp. if it's damage done by clean and consistent or high volume striking. But some fighters through a few good punches or kicks in a fight...then do nothing the rest of the time. But the other fighter might be more prone to cutting or showing abrasions on the face (while other fighters get hit repeatedly with less marking). I don't think that's how "damage" should be assessed in many cases. Not saying there shouldn't be subjective evaluations, but I think it needs to be combined with more objective things like clean strikes that don't always show up on a fighter as damage.
To wrap up and emphasize one more thing.....it's funny how a narrative begins and it just becomes adopted almost colloquially as being a truth. For example, the whole "they took them down but didn't do any damage" thing. Not saying it isn't BETTER to do damage. But I think we just automatically dismiss the takedown as being NOTHING. That's not right. Taking someone down in and of itself is a skill, and yes....the other fighter should be noted when they get right back up and don't sustain damage. But they still did not stop the takedown. That should be a mark against them. To what extent is something worth discussing, but I think something that is one of the key scoring points (2 points) in a wrestling match (and yes, an escape is 1 point, I get it)....should have similar merit in an MMA fight.
Speaking of yesterday, did anyone see the Trevor Peek vs Chepe Mariscal fight? Fight of the Year candidate. Crazy! Proof you don't need big name fighters for a fantastic fight.