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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: RoeDent on June 22, 2019, 03:27:19 AM

Title: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: RoeDent on June 22, 2019, 03:27:19 AM
In discovering Dream Theater first, I'm now beginning to think I may have peaked too early in my discovery of prog-metal. Apart from Haken, whose music I absolutely love, I have tried a few other albums and they don't come anywhere near the grabbing power of DT. I've tried Riverside (Love, Fear and the Time Machine), Seventh Wonder (Tiara) and just this week Threshold (March of Progress), and while they have some enjoyable songs, none have reached the heights of DT. I want to be able to chuckle to myself at an unexpected change in direction. I want wild time signature changes and crazy solos. I want PROG metal!

Everything I'm listening to in the genre I'm comparing with Dream Theater, and it's falling far far short of that high-water mark.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: MirrorMask on June 22, 2019, 03:42:52 AM
*Shrug* DT is the only reason why I even discovered prog metal in the first time. Without them I don't think I would have had the ear to digest such a complex genre.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Mladen on June 22, 2019, 04:20:57 AM
The problem I made was that I started my progressive metal journey with Dream Theater. Not a single band was able to top them. As much as I love/like bands like Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Haken, Symphony X, Vola, Caligula's Horse and Evergrey, DT is DT.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: SwedishGoose on June 22, 2019, 04:50:33 AM
Well DT is in a legue of their own in that they combine but there is soo much great prog metal out there.

Have you tried (apart from the ones mentioned above)

Gojira
Pain of Salvation
Ayreon
Soul Enema
Ostura
Alcest
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 22, 2019, 06:18:52 AM
There's a metric shit-ton of fantastic prog-metal acts out there.  Not many as well known as DT, or with a 14-album discog.  But there's a ton of music as good as - or better - than DT.  Ya just gotta do a bit of exploring.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: senecadawg2 on June 22, 2019, 06:50:09 AM
They're not prog metal in the same vein as the bands you listed, but if you want metal with wild surprises that makes you chuckle to yourself, maybe check out the more metal albums from Toby Driver's past. I would recommend Choirs of the Eye (Kayo Dot) and Bath (Maudlin of the Well)

There's a metric shit-ton of fantastic prog-metal acts out there.  Not many as well known as DT, or with a 14-album discog.  But there's a ton of music as good as - or better - than DT.  Ya just gotta do a bit of exploring.

And this
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: jammindude on June 22, 2019, 06:50:58 AM
As much as I love Riverside....I don't think Love/Fear is a good album to start with.   Second Life Syndrome and Anno Domini High Definition are much better starter albums IMO.

Also, Odd Logic are a fantastic band in that same style that you're digging -

Odd Logic - Maiden Child
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmbJXFINPTI
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: FlyingBIZKIT on June 22, 2019, 06:59:36 AM
I had sort of the opposite experience. DT was my first prog metal band and probably the first band where I learned their whole discography. I never thought in a million years that another band would dethrone them as my personal favorites. Then I discovered bands like Porcupine Tree, Between the Buried and Me, Haken and Leprous: All bands I'd consider much better than Dream Theater. That's not to say I dislike DT anymore, but I felt they were sort of that "gateway" band for me, and I'm so appreciative of it. I still listen to them here and there, but not religiously like I used to.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: senecadawg2 on June 22, 2019, 07:10:28 AM
Also, unless I missed it when I was scrolling through the archives, you haven't done a roulette before. Is that right? I've discovered a lot of great prog metal in roulettes, and most of it probably wouldn't have crossed my radar otherwise.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Evermind on June 22, 2019, 07:46:55 AM
There's a metric shit-ton of fantastic prog-metal acts out there.  Not many as well known as DT, or with a 14-album discog.  But there's a ton of music as good as - or better - than DT.  Ya just gotta do a bit of exploring.

Yes.

I had sort of the opposite experience. DT was my first prog metal band and probably the first band where I learned their whole discography. I never thought in a million years that another band would dethrone them as my personal favorites. Then I discovered bands like Porcupine Tree, Between the Buried and Me, Haken and Leprous: All bands I'd consider much better than Dream Theater. That's not to say I dislike DT anymore, but I felt they were sort of that "gateway" band for me, and I'm so appreciative of it. I still listen to them here and there, but not religiously like I used to.

Also yes.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: KevShmev on June 22, 2019, 08:30:50 AM
Well, most prog metal (that I have heard) is generic and forgettable, with a few exceptions like Dream Theater and Haken of course. 

Porcupine Tree was not prog metal, so they do not belong in this discussion. 

And while metal is/was Devin Townsend's main genre (not prog metal), I think he has done enough different stuff over the years now that he cannot be pigeon-holed into one subgenre.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: FlyingBIZKIT on June 22, 2019, 08:33:02 AM
Well, most prog metal (that I have heard) is generic and forgettable, with a few exceptions like Dream Theater and Haken of course. 

Porcupine Tree was not prog metal, so they do not belong in this discussion. 

And while metal is/was Devin Townsend's main genre (not prog metal), I think he has done enough different stuff over the years now that he cannot be pigeon-holed into one subgenre.

I thought FoaBP was probably the most prog metal they’ve ever been, but I typically don’t think of them as a prog metal band
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Crow on June 22, 2019, 10:22:32 AM
have you tried getting into heavier prog metal bands
that's basically where i ended up after getting bored of dream theater-type prog
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: SoundscapeMN on June 22, 2019, 10:31:59 AM
Take on non-clean Vocals?

Have you listened to Between the Buried and Me?

Unexpect? if you want some wild, crazy, out-there shit. Circus Prog Metal in a way

SikTh would be another that falls in this.

or something like Spiral Architect or Zero Hour (Towers of Avarice specifically).

but then again Haken to me always have, and likely always will come across like the plethora of Dream Theater wannabes.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: jammindude on June 22, 2019, 11:10:16 AM

but then again Haken to me always have, and likely always will come across like the plethora of Dream Theater wannabes.

Visions *DEFINITELY* hit me that way.   It's still a great album, but there are so many similarities to SFAM.   I swear there's even a chord progression in one of the songs that mirrors the SFAM Overture so closely, that I can't help but think it must be an intentional homage. 

But The Mountain...to me...is completely different.   There are things on that album that DT would never have done in a million years.  That was the album (again, to me) that Haken ceased to be DT-clones and became their own thing.

And then Affinity was even more different.     Vector seems a bit like Affinity's B-sides, but I still have high hopes for them moving forward.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: RoeDent on June 22, 2019, 11:39:06 AM
Take on non-clean Vocals?

I don't mind a bit, but ideally as few as possible.


Quote
but then again Haken to me always have, and likely always will come across like the plethora of Dream Theater wannabes.

They still offer something different to DT. They build on the sound pioneered by DT. The techy, glitchy sounds, the dubstep elements.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: ariich on June 22, 2019, 12:20:35 PM
Yeah, I mean I've always found Haken very different tonally and harmonically to DT, but their general style and instrumentation was extremely DT-like on Visions and to some extent Aquarius. Now, not at all except the odd song here and there (such that when it happens, it's really noticeable, like chunks of The Architect, Puzzle Box and Veil).
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 22, 2019, 11:12:36 PM
As much as I love Riverside....I don't think Love/Fear is a good album to start with.   Second Life Syndrome and Anno Domini High Definition are much better starter albums IMO.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Soooo much this!! RoeDent, don't write off Riverside until you've at least given Anno Domini High Definition a good listen. I think that album is their best and I would imagine will appeal to you much more than LFatTM. Second Life Syndrome is another good album, but IMO ADHD is much better and is heavier than their other albums.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: SystematicThought on June 23, 2019, 12:01:33 AM
Well, most prog metal (that I have heard) is generic and forgettable, with a few exceptions like Dream Theater and Haken of course. 
That's how I feel mostly. In the Prog Metal realm, with a few exceptions and what I've heard, the production all sounds the same. Terrible triggered drums, weird, vague, fantastical lyrics, guitarists that try to copy JP, prog for the sake of prog, and nothing new to the table. It just seems like they retread the same path each time. That's why when I do find prog metal that I like, I really like it.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: mike099 on June 23, 2019, 07:13:54 AM
Try Leprous cd Bilateral(different and quirky) and some of the music after Bilateral(more straight forward)

Also, try a band from Canada called The Anciients.  Good prog metal with a mix of harsh and clean vocals.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: JLa on June 23, 2019, 02:16:00 PM
Are you looking for something that sounds like DT or something "else" (but still prog metal)? Thing is, lots of bands sound like DT but all those copycats are ... boring. They can never top the original that is DT anyway.

Two of my personal favorites are Opeth (up until they went full 70's prog style) and Porcupine Tree.

Album tips: Blackwater Park (Opeth) and Fear of a Blank Planet (Porcupine Tree). Nothing at all like DT, but great records still.

Oh, if you're into DT and haven't heard the instrumental side project "Liquid Tension Experiment" - do yourself a favour and check it out.  :tup
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Lethean on June 23, 2019, 10:05:32 PM
I think there's a lot of great prog metal out there, some of which sounds like DT and some that doesn't.  But I wouldn't go into any of it looking for something to compare to DT or that's going to just blow your mind right away.  You might take some of the suggestions in this thread, listen to the album a couple times, and be like "not as good as DT" but I don't know... I might even agree with that because I'm a huge DT fan, but there are a lot of other great bands to enjoy too.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: wolfking on June 24, 2019, 04:53:31 AM
Noce pick.  Really good album.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: The Walrus on June 24, 2019, 04:58:05 AM
In discovering Dream Theater first, I'm now beginning to think I may have peaked too early in my discovery of prog-metal. Apart from Haken, whose music I absolutely love, I have tried a few other albums and they don't come anywhere near the grabbing power of DT. I've tried Riverside (Love, Fear and the Time Machine), Seventh Wonder (Tiara) and just this week Threshold (March of Progress), and while they have some enjoyable songs, none have reached the heights of DT. I want to be able to chuckle to myself at an unexpected change in direction. I want wild time signature changes and crazy solos. I want PROG metal!

Everything I'm listening to in the genre I'm comparing with Dream Theater, and it's falling far far short of that high-water mark.

Go listen to the album ESC by Zierler. It sounds like you're in the market for some seriously complex songwriting and real prog elements. You might like that album.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: RoeDent on June 24, 2019, 05:10:00 AM
I want something that thrills me the way DT thrilled me on first hearing. Tbh, I don't even care if they sound like "DT wannabes". I'll happily give more of that a go.

Thanks everyone for the recommendations. To clear a few things up:

1. I own all the Porcupine Tree albums; they're my next-favourite band of all time after DT.
2. And I absolutely love Liquid Tension Experiment 2. Finally picked it up last December.
3. I'm working my way through Ayreon. I bought 01011001 just last week, my fourth Ayreon album in the space of about 10 months.

Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: The Walrus on June 24, 2019, 05:29:28 AM
I want something that thrills me the way DT thrilled me on first hearing. Tbh, I don't even care if they sound like "DT wannabes". I'll happily give more of that a go.

Thanks everyone for the recommendations. To clear a few things up:

1. I own all the Porcupine Tree albums; they're my next-favourite band of all time after DT.
2. And I absolutely love Liquid Tension Experiment 2. Finally picked it up last December.
3. I'm working my way through Ayreon. I bought 01011001 just last week, my fourth Ayreon album in the space of about 10 months.

On top of my suggestion for Zierler, I also strongly suggest you pick up the two Levin Minnemann Rudess albums since you love LTE. You'll find a LOT to love on those records.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: JLa on June 24, 2019, 05:59:36 AM
I want something that thrills me the way DT thrilled me on first hearing.
Don't we all? Tell me if you come across anything!

In the "copycat" terrain ...

Circus Maximus - Biosfear (instrumental)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-woi0QkNhs
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: cramx3 on June 24, 2019, 07:29:26 AM
After finishing my DT discovery journey, I thought to myself... did I just ruin music for myself?  How can any band be any better?  Well, here's the thing.  No other band is DT.  So if you are looking for another DT, just stop because that doesn't exist.  So open your mind to other ideas and you'll find music that you'll really enjoy, maybe as much or even more than DT. 

Having said that, I still think DT are the peak of prog-metal for me.  I enjoy lots of other bands now, DT opened up a new genre to me, but no other band as a whole have topped DT.  That's fine, they sit just behind Iron Maiden as my all time favorite band and they have held that spot firmly for a long time now and maybe that won't ever change.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: MirrorMask on June 24, 2019, 08:09:18 AM
That's fine, they sit just behind Iron Maiden as my all time favorite band and they have held that spot firmly for a long time now and maybe that won't ever change.

You saved me a post.  :hat
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Nel on June 24, 2019, 09:19:21 AM
I don't think they were the peak for me so much as a welcoming coastline for Prog-Metal Island.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: TAC on June 24, 2019, 06:31:18 PM
I want something that thrills me the way DT thrilled me on first hearing.

Don't we all.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Ruba on June 24, 2019, 06:51:38 PM
...
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: contest_sanity on June 25, 2019, 04:23:48 AM
I second Pain of Salvation; Remedy Lane is probably a top-5 album of mine. And while it's not DT-technical, it's complex in its own unique way, and you'll be sure to get some feels along the way.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Snow Dog on June 25, 2019, 06:31:06 AM
After revisiting them the past couple days, I’ll suggest Earthside. They’ve only got one album out so far, but hot damn, what a debut! At their core, they’re an instrumental band, but they did hire various vocalists to guest spot for a few songs which gives each one a unique flavor. They’re not as technical as DT (but really, not many other bands are), but everything is top notch - the songs and arrangements, the musicianship, the production... Easily one of the best debut albums I’ve ever heard. And the whole thing is available to listen to on YouTube if you search for “A Dream in Static.”
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Moor on June 25, 2019, 07:05:25 AM
I had the same feeling 15 years ago.
I found green pastures with the following bands:

1. Opeth: start with Watershed then Ghost Reveries & Blackwater Park.
2. BTBAM: start with Parallax II then hit Colors.

Bear the growls, you will get redeemed :)

3. Porcupine Tree: start with Anesthetize then In Absentia.
4. Symphony X: start with Paradise Lost then Iconoclast.
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Honestly, I envy you ... wish I was in your place and I still have all the above great music to discover.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: The Curious Orange on June 25, 2019, 08:07:44 AM
Here's a slightly odd recommendation:

Frank Zappa.

Seriously, if it's odd time signatures, strange tunes and virtuoso musicianship (with some of the best guitar soloing you'll ever hear) then you can't beat FZ's discography. Roxy and Elsewhere is a good place to start, as is Zappa In New York.

It's the only thing I've heard that comes close to what I get from DT.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: RoeDent on June 25, 2019, 12:21:18 PM
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: JLa on June 25, 2019, 01:52:16 PM
Soen released their new album "Lotus" a few months ago. I think it's really good, maybe you will too. Here's the track "Martyrs". Try to not skip - there's quite the buildup/climax around 5:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh92nGMaEVg
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Stadler on June 25, 2019, 02:09:28 PM
Here's a slightly odd recommendation:

Frank Zappa.

Seriously, if it's odd time signatures, strange tunes and virtuoso musicianship (with some of the best guitar soloing you'll ever hear) then you can't beat FZ's discography. Roxy and Elsewhere is a good place to start, as is Zappa In New York.

It's the only thing I've heard that comes close to what I get from DT.

Roxy And Elsewhere is crucial.  (Nugget; if you listen to... I think it's "More Trouble Every Day", and don't think of Genesis, you're not paying attention!)

I'd also add The Dixie Dregs here, though. 
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Herrick on June 26, 2019, 06:02:18 PM
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.

Cult?
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: ariich on June 26, 2019, 11:45:00 PM
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.

Cult?
Apparently Christianity is a niche religion now.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Herrick on June 26, 2019, 11:55:47 PM
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.

Cult?
Apparently Christianity is a niche religion now.

I'd buy that for a dollar.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: The Walrus on June 27, 2019, 07:27:58 AM
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.

Cult?
Apparently Christianity is a niche religion now.

If only!
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: 425 on June 27, 2019, 06:35:17 PM
To steer clear of the P/R topic...

The last two NMB albums have definitely both had some heavier material, although the majority of both is still on the rock side of the rock/metal line. The Man in the Iron Cage (https://youtu.be/9U7AKNOTeQI) from The Similitude of a Dream and especially Welcome to the World 2 (http://) from The Great Adventure are definitely heavy songs.

I don't really get what Neal's religion is supposed to have to do with his propensity to write heavy music? As I understand it Theocracy is forthrightly Christian and they are definitely a metal band. Also, Neal writing some heavier stuff isn't, like, a totally novel thing. The opening movement of The Conflict (https://youtu.be/qKWa8VepV2o) from Sola Scriptura is pretty heavy.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Moor on June 28, 2019, 05:23:40 AM
To steer clear of the P/R topic...

The last two NMB albums have definitely both had some heavier material, although the majority of both is still on the rock side of the rock/metal line. The Man in the Iron Cage (https://youtu.be/9U7AKNOTeQI) from The Similitude of a Dream and especially Welcome to the World 2 (http://) from The Great Adventure are definitely heavy songs.

I don't really get what Neal's religion is supposed to have to do with his propensity to write heavy music? As I understand it Theocracy is forthrightly Christian and they are definitely a metal band. Also, Neal writing some heavier stuff isn't, like, a totally novel thing. The opening movement of The Conflict (https://youtu.be/qKWa8VepV2o) from Sola Scriptura is pretty heavy.

Thank you ... this is exactly how see the NMB.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Zantera on June 28, 2019, 05:59:01 AM
As for the Neal Morse discussion, there's a lot of people who can't separate the man and the artist and if you have someone who believes in something that doesn't exist - whether it's god or the easter bunny and they write songs on this topic, I could see why someone would have a hard time taking it seriously or getting into it. As for me personally it doesn't really bother me if an artist is a religious nut, in the case of NB it's just something I haven't been interested in diving into myself.

As for the topic overall, I don't think this is an issue because most of the time you start with whats popular and then you kinda dive deeper and a lot of the time you find the hidden gems that might even be better than the big names. I don't mean this next part in a hipster way but for me it's almost more exciting once you get to "deep diving"-mode within a genre because it feels even more exciting to find great music that everyone doesn't already know about. It's not about liking things with fewer fans, it's more about the excitement of finding an awesome band that isn't mentioned among the "pioneers" and then sharing that band with other people who didn't know about them.

So yeah happy exploring. :)
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: cramx3 on June 28, 2019, 09:22:27 AM
For me, the fact NM isn't metal is probably why his music hasn't clicked with me as I am not into most prog or prog rock, but I like the heaviness of metal.  Having said that, I don't recall from what I heard of him being religious in the music.  Is that the case?  If not, who cares about his religion? 

Either way, the OP seemed to be wanting prog metal so a lot of these suggestions aren't hitting the mark
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Lethean on June 28, 2019, 11:45:34 AM
Here's a great (imo) prog metal recommendation for you - old Sieges Even.  2000's Sieges Even is fantastic and I recommend that too, but if you are specifically looking for crazy complexity, go for the 80s and early 90s stuff.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: SwedishGoose on June 28, 2019, 01:51:19 PM
Some great quite unknown swedish progmetal can be found in Vulkan who have released two albums so far and have a third on the way.

More in the line of Tool than DT though....

https://open.spotify.com/album/2QRPQqJtnOmZ7U2OKEfUhL?si=nnUPkcQqRR21UNorzKlchw
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: RoeDent on June 29, 2019, 08:28:25 AM
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.

Cult?

Half in jest, but not completely. The religion stuff aside...he has his own label (Radiant). He has the Inner Circle. He has his own music festival (Morsefest). And he has his own streaming service (Waterfall).
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: ShadowWalker on July 01, 2019, 01:48:59 PM
Everything I'm listening to in the genre I'm comparing with Dream Theater, and it's falling far far short of that high-water mark.

And there is your problem. You are not judging music on its own merits. You have made it a competition, comparing the quality of it to Dream Theater. Why does music have to be better or worse than something else? Enjoy each band for what it brings to the table. Enjoy it, not because it is better than DT or in the same ballpark as DT, but because the music, the lyrics, the melodies connect with you. There is a whole expansive universe of music, but if you need to constantly rank it and judge it against the arbitrary baseline of DT, you will miss out on some great stuff.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: ShadowWalker on July 01, 2019, 01:56:54 PM
Here's a slightly odd recommendation:

Frank Zappa.

Seriously, if it's odd time signatures, strange tunes and virtuoso musicianship (with some of the best guitar soloing you'll ever hear) then you can't beat FZ's discography. Roxy and Elsewhere is a good place to start, as is Zappa In New York.

It's the only thing I've heard that comes close to what I get from DT.

Roxy And Elsewhere is crucial.  (Nugget; if you listen to... I think it's "More Trouble Every Day", and don't think of Genesis, you're not paying attention!)

After diving into the Roxy box set with all the complete shows from which the original live album was drawn from, I don't know if I have use to go back and listen to the original album anymore (though it was cool to hear ZPZ play it in its entirety a few years ago).

I wish they were able to release the full shows for the Zappa In New York anniversary set, but what they assembled was still a great collection and well work picking up (stupid packaging aside).
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: RoeDent on July 02, 2019, 02:10:39 AM
Everything I'm listening to in the genre I'm comparing with Dream Theater, and it's falling far far short of that high-water mark.

And there is your problem. You are not judging music on its own merits. You have made it a competition, comparing the quality of it to Dream Theater. Why does music have to be better or worse than something else? Enjoy each band for what it brings to the table. Enjoy it, not because it is better than DT or in the same ballpark as DT, but because the music, the lyrics, the melodies connect with you. There is a whole expansive universe of music, but if you need to constantly rank it and judge it against the arbitrary baseline of DT, you will miss out on some great stuff.

Hardly anything's connected with me though. I'm using DT as comparison because they are absolutely perfect, imo. The marriage of complexity and melody is second to none. The only band that I know of that have come close, again imo, are Haken. I want to experience the same thrill I experienced when discovering those bands.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Tomislav95 on July 02, 2019, 02:31:09 AM
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Fates Warning yet, try their latest. Redemption is also cool, probably even more similar to DT.
Maybe you should look in another direction and try with some more unusual progressive rock like dredg, Fair to Midland, Mew and Rishloo. I'm a lot like you, there is something in DT I don't hear in any other music (not even Haken) even though I don't listen to them as much as I used to.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: JLa on July 11, 2019, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: RoeDent
Hardly anything's connected with me though. I'm using DT as comparison because they are absolutely perfect, imo. The marriage of complexity and melody is second to none. The only band that I know of that have come close, again imo, are Haken. I want to experience the same thrill I experienced when discovering those bands.

Do you know Threshold? More melody and less complexity, but they have some great songs still. It's hard to do recommendations because everybody's taste is different, but I'll give a shoutout to the song "Small Dark Lines".

Evergrey also put out some great stuff in the early 2000's. Their three albums "In Search of Truth", "Recreation Day" and "Inner Circle" has tons of good music on them. Try the song "Rulers of the Mind".

Evergrey are still active but they don't really do prog metal anymore. At least not the last time I checked, but I see they have put out even more stuff recently.  :lol
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Pettor on July 11, 2019, 01:49:26 PM
I get you 100%! :) There's no point hearing that there's "much better" bands out there, Dream Theater is the masters of that type of sound. I am not saying there could be something better out there for you, just that if this is the type of sound you like it can be impossible finding something better.

I found love for DT by going from power metal, a genre that many times had prog elements and strong melodic metal songs. DT was the perfect evolution from that and it wasn't because prog was the ultimate genre for me, it was just that DT took element that I love about prog and incorporate them songs varying from epic, emotional, popish etc. It's colorful and comes in all kinds of different well crafted variations :)

Going into DT and loving those elements I naturally thought prog in any shape would be a great match for me. I have browsed through tons of prog bands on progarchives.com as well as recommendations and I like maybe 0.01% of the prog out there. Usually bands like POS, Riverside, Shadow Gallery, Circus Maximus, BTBAM or similar that share elements with DT within prog metal genre. However most other bands is more restricted to certain songs or albums.

In the end I am fine having a band I can't find any replacement for. They have tons of good songs that I never stop caring for. I don't think I will find a better fit in my life. Still there's tons of other bands with great music to listen to!


Some song recommendations as you maybe have a similar taste as me:

Circus Maximus - Architect of Fortune
Circus Maximus - Last Goodbye
Riverside - Egoist Hedonist
Pain of Salvation - Idioglossia
Shadow Gallery - The Archer of Ben Salem
Haken - Puzzle Box
Between The Buried and Me - Lay Your Ghosts to Rest
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Crow on July 11, 2019, 01:52:00 PM
Not prog metal, and not as technical as DT I guess, but Poly-math - House of Wisdom | We Are the Devil is an excellent jazz-prog instrumental record filled to the brim with catchy melodic hooks
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Stadler on July 11, 2019, 02:23:03 PM
For me, the fact NM isn't metal is probably why his music hasn't clicked with me as I am not into most prog or prog rock, but I like the heaviness of metal.  Having said that, I don't recall from what I heard of him being religious in the music.  Is that the case?  If not, who cares about his religion? 

Either way, the OP seemed to be wanting prog metal so a lot of these suggestions aren't hitting the mark

Well, Zantera expressed his opinion in a way that implied they were actually fact (the non-existance of God, the "nuttiness" of Neal's religious belief) but notwithstanding that...   Some of Neal's work (Testimony, ?, Sola Scriptura) is more overt than other works (the Transatlantic material, the NMB work), but all has a sort of "spiritual" undertone.  He clearly believes in God and in the power of Christ, and that informs all his music, be it lyrically or in other ways.

For me, who doesn't share the depth of belief that Neal does, I just choose to interpret the lyrics in a manner of "positivity" and so for me it's not an issue.  By no stretch, though, is his work "prog metal".   
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: 0u81234 on July 14, 2019, 11:42:09 AM
Check out Witherfall https://youtu.be/GZudFbJdBp4
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Peter Mc on July 14, 2019, 04:33:50 PM
For a DT wannabe band try early Circus Maximus. Their last album was a snooze fest imo but the first 2 albums and parts of album 3 are superb.

For prog metal different to DT I’d try Tool. Not keen on their debut but Lateralus and Aenima are amazing. Lateralus is a bit more accessible but both great albums if you’re prepared to spend time with them. 

I’d also try Opeth in the Blackwater Park - Watershed era. Not sure how you feel about death metal vocals, I always hated it but Opeth have a mix of melodic and death metal vocals and I learned to love both. Amorphis are a kind of watered down more accessible version of Opeth but very melodic. I don’t know their very early stuff but anything from Eclipse onwards is decent apart from their latest album which I can’t get into. Silent Waters was my first album I heard of theirs and it’s excellent.

Finally I’d give early Queensryche a go, especially the three album run from A Rage For Order to Empire. Not all that proggy but there are elements in there and I still consider Operation Mindcrime right up there with Images and Words as one of the best albums of all time.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: MoraWintersoul on July 22, 2019, 08:54:45 AM
After discovering DT, I went through the same rough patch where all I did was bump into DT clones who could never compare to the real thing. But after that, I experienced several moments in my prog album journey that compared to the same high I had after I discovered Images and Words for the first time.

Fates Warning - any album that heavily features Kevin Moore. A Pleasant Shade of Gray is one of the pinnacles of classic prog metal, Disconnected is a little more unconventional but might resonate with you a little more.

Obviously no prog metal list isn't complete without Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime. It's the only album that compares to SFAM's specific vibe, and maybe it's even a little better.

Pain Of Salvation - The Perfect Element and Remedy Lane are two absolutely exhilarating albums. Literally freakin killed me.

Riverside - Second Life Syndrome is my personal fave from Riverside.

Early Symphony X albums are a bit like feeding Yngwie Malmsteen's best moments into a Queen machine and seeing what pops out. If you're into some enthusiastic upbeat weirdness, maybe a few of them will hit you as strong as DT did. I think I was about halfway through The Damnation Game when I first realized I was listening to something truly special, your point will vary. Their later albums are a bit more glossy and there's more metal in them, so there's that.

Amorphis - Skyforger was my entrance into "new" Amorphis, you can try Eclipse and Silent Waters first as well. They're truly one of the best active bands with the best album run right now, you will never find a band that sounds anything like this.

The best Seventh Wonder moment to me is Mercy Falls. It was the first album after Images that really hit me and made me invest my time into prog metal.

The second album that made my invest my time into prog metal after DT was Sieges Even's The Art Of Navigating By The Stars. It's still in my top 10 of all time.

Conception - Parallel Minds, for that 90's progpower goodness. Man, what an album, they had two proggier albums after this that were pretty good, and they're active again but this one is massive, and will be your intro to one of the best voices in metal if you haven't heard his stuff already.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Mister Gold on July 22, 2019, 03:52:48 PM
Thank God for mentioning Conception first, Mora!!!

That said, I'd have to say almost any album from Fates Warning is worth investing time in checking out, not just the Moore era albums. In fact, Live Over Europe is an especially great place to start, since it's one of the finest live albums this side of Iced Earth's Alive in Athens and is a strong introduction to most of the Ray Alder-era material (aka the bulk of FW's catalogue). Plus, in my humble opinion, FW are still the true kings of prog metal.

Also if the OP checks out Operation: Mindcrime, they should also spend time checking out Queensryche's previous album Rage for Order. Easily the proggiest the band ever got, along with Promised Land.

Personally, as far as bands that haven't been named in here already, I'd also suggest checking out Savatage, Witherfall and maybe Voivod. Depends on just how off-kilter you like your prog and if you're cool with more punk rock-inspired vocals with that last band. But Savatage and Witherfall are top tier prog metal bands more along classic genre styles that are worth checking out.
Title: Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
Post by: Joshgirouard on July 23, 2019, 03:32:49 PM
Check out animals as leaders . Some really complex prog