DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site

Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: bosk1 on June 15, 2019, 08:05:17 PM

Title: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: bosk1 on June 15, 2019, 08:05:17 PM
Directly from the band:

Quote
The band understands that some of the shows on this recent leg were mistakenly billed as "SFAM 20th Anniversary" shows (for a very short time, which has since been corrected).  Please understand that that information did not come from the band, but was apparently a miscommunication issue somewhere farther down the chain.  As most of you know, SFAM alone will take up an entire set, which means it can only be played in an "evening with" format, and not at festival shows or shows with opening bands.  We are sorry if anyone was misled, but we hope you enjoyed these very special shows nonetheless.  We know we sure enjoyed playing them!  We hope to see you all again soon!

I can also say that I spoke directly to JP, and he is really sorry for any misunderstanding.  He truly wants fans to always leave DT shows happy every single time.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: gzarruk on June 15, 2019, 08:27:26 PM
Glad to see the band address this, as we've seen many complaints from European fans in the last couple days. I think they could/should share this statement in social media, most of these fans don't read DTF.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: nikatapi on June 16, 2019, 02:27:08 AM
Good they acknowledge the misunderstanding, unfortunately some damage has been done and i've seen people sell their tickets already.
I would understand someone who hasn't seen the band for almost a decade who would expect at least a longer set.

(https://forum.rocking.gr/uploads/default/original/2X/f/fb962aa6a92d3fb6315319c175b1aebd22af0392.png)
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Fritzinger on June 16, 2019, 03:39:15 AM
Not amused by this at all. The show they are playing in Dresden is not a festival show and I see no reason for such a short set. I paid 90€ for good seats. I have my final year-exam that day and won't be with my friends that night, but drive 6 hours home immediately after the exam to make the concert. For 90 minutes of DT. Nobody wants to see Vola instead of another hour of DT at those ticket prices (sorry Vola). I am seriously pissed.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Lifeamongtheruins on June 16, 2019, 07:06:13 AM
Not amused by this at all. The show they are playing in Dresden is not a festival show and I see no reason for such a short set. I paid 90€ for good seats. I have my final year-exam that day and won't be with my friends that night, but drive 6 hours home immediately after the exam to make the concert. For 90 minutes of DT. Nobody wants to see Vola instead of another hour of DT at those ticket prices (sorry Vola). I am seriously pissed.
I feel you. The concert I'm supposed to go to is much more comfortable to me, but nobody has announced a support act. There wasn't even the usual "+special guests" thing they usually put when they don't know who the other band(s) will be. So I don't see how it counts as a festival appearance, and they don't seem to have to cut their set because they have a ton of supporting bands.

edit: I went to their Facebook page (I don't have an account) and saw that there should be Jason Richardson and Luke Holland. However, I still think it should have been handled better, because this whole thing wasn't clear at all. The announcement came a month and a half after the tickets went on sale, and I had to buy my ticket as soon as possible because the venue always sells out in a few days. Plus, I still think they could play a couple more songs.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: TAC on June 16, 2019, 07:49:03 AM
Certainly feel bad for all of you guys...


But...I thought the band was pretty clear from the jump that the summer shows were not going to be Scenes shows. They did say they would return to Europe with the full show after the summer.

Don't these countries have fan clubs and stuff that are in contact with the band? Maybe contact is too strong.

Are there contracts with promoters on how they will be promoted? Does the band have to approve all promo materials?

My first thought is the usual..Does this kind of thing happen with MP in the band? I'm only half joking.

Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Ben_Jamin on June 16, 2019, 09:24:55 AM
That sucks for you all, and i feel for you.

But, The band did say they are not playing SFAM this summer run. Also, the band did not say they were doing an evening with show on their non-festival headlining dates. Which, from my experience at shows here, means there will be supporting acts.

 I check what time the shows start and then work my way to see how long the set will be (as we have curfew so the shows always end around the same time). Usually, promoters will put the headlining band on the ads (at first), then sometimes after the tickets go on sale, they'll add who'll be the supporting act or opening local band.

Honestly, I can see why you guys are upset yet dont get why people are that upset that they won't even see the band play.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Evermind on June 16, 2019, 10:34:21 AM
Honestly, I can see why you guys are upset yet dont get why people are that upset that they won't even see the band play.

One issue could be the ticket prices. I bought my ticket when it was on 30% discount, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered with the gig—because I knew it would be a shorter one in advance, mostly thanks to this forum. It was like 1,5 times more expensive (without discount) than most of the gigs I admitted this year, including a 3-hours Avantasia show with multiple singers.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Pettor on June 16, 2019, 12:21:28 PM
To be fair I found it confusing when tickets was released and only thanks to this community understood what the plan was. I still haven't understood that they will be coming back with full set in Europe. Is this confirmed?

Hehe actually found my initial question and saw that I first thought it was 3 hours set until noxon and others pointed out the festival part  :tup

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53021.msg2498057#msg2498057
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Lethean on June 16, 2019, 12:34:25 PM
I think it's been mentioned in interviews that that's the plan.

I totally understand why people are upset and don't have any caveats to add.  I've read some interviews that lead me to believe SFAM wasn't going to be presented this summer, but not everyone reads/listens to interviews.  Also, I'm pretty sure I became aware of this after tickets for some of the European shows went on sale, not before.  I think it's completely understandable that fans would be confused.

Clearly, this wasn't something the band did intentionally and they of course don't want fans to be upset.  If it were me and I'd already spent money on nonrefundable things like airfare, then I'd go and make the best of it.  If it was just a concert ticket and I'd have to travel 6 hours... maybe I'd try to sell my ticket and save myself the trouble.  The band apologized, and that's a good first step.  But I think they should soon also address making sure this doesn't happen in the future.  Someone working for the band should be tasked with communicating what the show will be to local promoters and providing promotional material that they can use - or at least approved promotional wording.  Promoters might not know what bands are going to open the show, but the promotion could say Dream Theater 90 minute set + special guests TBD, or something along those lines.  Someone dropped the ball here and it wasn't the band... but the band and their team should have an interest in making sure they stay on top of this from here on out.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Evermind on June 16, 2019, 01:00:32 PM
To be fair I found it confusing when tickets was released and only thanks to this community understood what the plan was. I still haven't understood that they will be coming back with full set in Europe. Is this confirmed?

I'm going to actually rant about this a bit, and just so you guys know, I have an immense respect for the band and this post has absolutely no intention to slight the band and the management in any way.

I knew from the get-go that the summer run of the shows will be the festivals. Now, DT management says they'll come back to Europe with the second leg with the "Evening with" format, and this'll probably come to fruition too. But I had, and to this very moment, have no idea if they'll actually come to my country with this second leg. Because hey—and I know it's on promoters, not on the band—we didn't get the Astonishing tour at all, we didn't get the I&W and Beyond tour, in fact the last time they played here was a similar fest in 2015 (at least that one had Moonspell as one of the opening bands) and the last time we had An Evening With show was in 2014. The "we'll come back to Europe on the second leg" is fine for our fine folks in Germany (I used Germany for example because I visited it a few months ago, and I still understand it's a big fucking difference if the band plays in Koln or in Hamburg or in Berlin) which DT will certainly visit, but for me it's just the words thrown on the wind because there's no way to tell if DT is coming back on their second leg here. Hell, with all the political situation I'm not even sure if Russia even counts as a part of Europe nowadays.

That being said, I grabbed the tickets when they were on discount exactly because I'm not sure if DT is even coming back on the next leg. If they do, hell, I'll go see them, if not, hell, at least I saw them for those 85 minutes playing some of the old and new stuff. If DT sticks to that kind of gigs in the future, I guess this was my last time seeing the band—I really don't care about seeing two noname bands before I can witness DT performing ten songs. If I knew for certain they would come back with An Evening With show, I would've saved my money for that. I just wish it was a bit more transparent, and at the same time, I understand it's as transparent as it gets.

DT at the festivals with 1,5 hours of showtime is just not the same as standalone DT gig with, hell, at least 2 hours of music. We fans are sure spoiled, but hell, their gig for AFTR tour was one of the best gigs I've seen. I saw Amorphis lately and they played like 75 minutes of music before calling it a day, with an encore too. Well, I'm sure I won't ever go see them again live.

I have no quarrel with how this was communicated and how this played out, but overall, the whole "we're going to play the Evening With shows in US, then festivals in EU, then get back for the second leg in EU" is useless to me because there's no confirmation if the second leg will even include your city or your country. So yeah, if you want to see DT, apparently you just buy the tickets now for the first leg, and then we'll see.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: tristl on June 16, 2019, 03:19:18 PM
I do not care if they play Scenes or not,
But if i pay 86€ for a DT Concert in Dresden(not a Festival) i expect DT to play a whole set,
If not i will be very disappointed 😔, let’s hope for the best  :metal
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Fritzinger on June 17, 2019, 03:39:57 AM
I do not care if they play Scenes or not,
But if i pay 86€ for a DT Concert in Dresden(not a Festival) i expect DT to play a whole set,
If not i will be very disappointed 😔, let’s hope for the best  :metal

Guess we'll see each other in the front row section! I'm block B, first row.


I totally get that they play a short set on festivals. But tickets were 86 fucking euros and a band the size like DT can't afford to set prices like this for a 90 minute show.
What makes me very sad too is: the Junge Garde in Dresden is a beautiful open air location, an amphitheatre where Scenes would fit into perfectly - way better than in some stinky indoor arena in western Germany where I'll have to drive to for 7 hours - which is where they're probably going to play in the fall.

(https://www.eventim.de/obj/media/DE-eventim/galery/venue/f/freilichtbuehne-junge-garde-dresden-tickets-02.jpg)
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: noxon on June 17, 2019, 04:58:57 AM
The band doesn't set the ticket prices. The band sets a price for THEIR performance, based on the type of show they're doing. The promoters do the pricing, and they chose to market it as a DT gig, even though they knew full well that DT were doing a shorter set (that's one of the things they negotiate during contract phase - the length of the set) - as well as whether they rely on DT to bring their own guests (of which Animals as Leaders, Andy McKee and Jason Richardson has been chosen for some of the dates) - or book their own opening acts as well.

I'm sorry you feel cheated due to the show just being 1.5 hour of DT for what you think is an unfair price, but take it with the promoter.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Lifeamongtheruins on June 17, 2019, 05:42:42 AM


Guess we'll see each other in the front row section! I'm block B, first row.


I totally get that they play a short set on festivals. But tickets were 86 fucking euros and a band the size like DT can't afford to set prices like this for a 90 minute show.
What makes me very sad too is: the Junge Garde in Dresden is a beautiful open air location, an amphitheatre where Scenes would fit into perfectly - way better than in some stinky indoor arena in western Germany where I'll have to drive to for 7 hours - which is where they're probably going to play in the fall.

(https://www.eventim.de/obj/media/DE-eventim/galery/venue/f/freilichtbuehne-junge-garde-dresden-tickets-02.jpg)
The place where I'll see them is this one:(http://www.blogtaormina.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/1040149.jpg)
You've just made me think that it would be the PERFECT place to play SFAM... but I'll try and enjoy the concert anyway  ;D after all, they're like the first big metal band that tours here since Maiden in the 90s, and the setting is great anyway.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Moor on June 17, 2019, 06:17:31 AM
Directly from the band:

Quote
The band understands that some of the shows on this recent leg were mistakenly billed as "SFAM 20th Anniversary" shows (for a very short time, which has since been corrected).  Please understand that that information did not come from the band, but was apparently a miscommunication issue somewhere farther down the chain.  As most of you know, SFAM alone will take up an entire set, which means it can only be played in an "evening with" format, and not at festival shows or shows with opening bands.  We are sorry if anyone was misled, but we hope you enjoyed these very special shows nonetheless.  We know we sure enjoyed playing them!  We hope to see you all again soon!

I can also say that I spoke directly to JP, and he is really sorry for any misunderstanding.  He truly wants fans to always leave DT shows happy every single time.

With all my respect to the band, but its statement contains some info which I would like to comment on as follows:

1. The Tour was announced in November 2018 and was taglined SFAM anniversary tours on the DT official website for over 5 months (until the NA leg was over)! Hence, it would not be totally correct to mention that this miscommunication lasted "for a very short time".

2. I never rely on the info shared by promoters, because those are only for advertising purposes to secure their profits and increase their sales; my only place to check regarding DT shows is the tours page on the DT official website, and this is where I got misled. I am really sharing here my personal experience with this event: I have checked the tour page on DT website and booked accordingly the VIP ticket (150 EUR because this time my favorite album of all-time is being played), booked a hotel near the venue and flight ticket flights (totaling 600 EUR). Accordingly, I do not agree with blaming the promoters or putting the issue "somewhere farther down the chain".

3. There are two main concerns in this whole issue, one is that the DT appearance is limited to 90 minutes now and the other is that SFAM will not be played in its entirety; I believe that there is a chance to address the SFAM issue by modifying the setlist and playing the SFAM album in its entirety (being of 77 minutes) in addition to one or two D/T songs. I believe this is what at least could be done (rather than a public statement) because if you check the social media, you will realize that there is a real issue with fans this time, and anyway announcing now that SFAM would be played will surely increase the sales.


Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: tristl on June 17, 2019, 06:21:34 AM
The fans do not care about the promoter,
But they will blame DT for it, that is what the band has to be aware of.
Just saying.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Moor on June 17, 2019, 06:24:19 AM
The fans do not care about the promoter,
But they will blame DT for it, that is what the band has to be aware of.
Just saying.

Sure, and especially that DT official website is not managed by the promoters !
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Lifeamongtheruins on June 17, 2019, 06:42:37 AM
2. I never rely on the info shared by promoters, because those are only for advertising purposes to secure their profits and increase their sales; my only place to check regarding DT shows is the tours page on the DT official website, and this is where I got misled.
Same here. I absolutely agree with your post. I don't think anyone in the band and in their team did this in bad faith, but the blame isn't 100% on the promoters in my opinion.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: bosk1 on June 17, 2019, 07:53:16 AM
1. The Tour was announced in November 2018 and was taglined SFAM anniversary tours on the DT official website for over 5 months (until the NA leg was over)! Hence, it would not be totally correct to mention that this miscommunication lasted "for a very short time".

Well, no, that is not entirely correct.  The North American leg of the tour was promoted as the SFAM anniversary tour.  The website did NOT say that any other legs would be SFAM anniversary tours.  And the band had said in interviews that the SFAM tour would not be done in Europe this time around. I'm sorry you misunderstood what was said on the website, but it was not promoted the way you are describing.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: RoeDent on June 17, 2019, 08:08:22 AM
But they will blame DT for it, that is what the band has to be aware of.

Of course. They blamed Mangini for the drum sound on DT12, but recent info has proved that he was not to blame for that, and that he was upset by that. I hope those fans feel some regret over that.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Nofire on June 17, 2019, 08:12:45 AM
Someone posted this link in the Facebook comments section below the post where the band apologized. It leads to an archived page from their "tour" page on their website which clearly connects DoT and SFAM to the European summer tour dates. The page grab is from April, at which point someone must have noticed it since it's announcement several months earlier.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190405131915/http://dreamtheater.net/tour/
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: bosk1 on June 17, 2019, 08:21:28 AM
I wouldn't say "clearly," because, again, the band clarified exactly what the tour was.  But, again, I understand the confusion.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Nofire on June 17, 2019, 08:59:26 AM
I wouldn't say "clearly," because, again, the band clarified exactly what the tour was.  But, again, I understand the confusion.

It says that they're celebrating 20 years of SFAM and then list a number of tour dates below. And we know that that's what the tour looked like in North America. Nowhere does it indicate that this would not be the case in Europe as well. Where did they announce that the summer shows would be a festival set? Granted, I haven't watched all YouTube interviews out there, but I also expect tour info of this magnitude to appear on their website, which it does since about a month ago.

Now, the critical observer would probably note upon further inspection that the events themselves (Gävle in Sweden for example which has had no mention of being a festival) sure seem to have a lot of bands on the bill to allow for an evening with DT. That's why I personally didn't get tickets to this tour leg. And I'm 100% sure that this was not done intentionally, knowing how loyal the band and their crew always have been to their fanbase.

But to blame this on "people down the chain" is wrong in my opinion. The official website represents the band. And to have false (or in other ways misleading) information on their official webpage for even a few weeks when many super loyal fans buy tickets as soon as they are released makes the disappointment that people are expressing justified.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Samsara on June 17, 2019, 09:37:27 AM
To back up noxon's comment, please remember that no major band on tours such as this set their own prices. Bands have a rate for their performance. A promoter agrees to it, and a contract is made, guaranteeing the band that rate. The promoter sets the concert ticket price.

As for this situation, I do remember the band being very clear that they were NOT doing SFAM in its entirety in Europe. The website at the time, is a little misleading, but even that page that someone pulled up on the wayback machine does not state they are doing SFAM in full. Just that they are celebrating SFAM. That is a big difference. Whoever did the website probably should have had a very bolded disclaimer about the European shows not being SFAM in its entirety, just so it was crystal clear.

Mistakes happen, and I am sure the band will take steps to fix the issues moving forward. And the apology, plus JP's personal remarks to bosk, were very classy and forthright.

I can understand not being happy spending a high amount for a 90-minute performance. And I feel bad for our European friends who are. But the money is spent. Go enjoy your favorite (or one of your favorite) band and embrace the show. Knowing DT, they'll find a way to make it up to people. If there's one thing DT has always been about, its making sure fans are happy. If a mistake is made, they make it up at some point.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: zappafrank2112 on June 17, 2019, 09:47:45 AM
Between this, the whole tour program kerfluffle, and some VIP ticket issues I've read about in other threads here, there sure seem to have been lots of crossed wires of late...
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: pg1067 on June 17, 2019, 11:30:46 AM
1. The Tour was announced in November 2018 and was taglined SFAM anniversary tours on the DT official website for over 5 months (until the NA leg was over)! Hence, it would not be totally correct to mention that this miscommunication lasted "for a very short time".

Well, no, that is not entirely correct.  The North American leg of the tour was promoted as the SFAM anniversary tour.  The website did NOT say that any other legs would be SFAM anniversary tours.  And the band had said in interviews that the SFAM tour would not be done in Europe this time around. I'm sorry you misunderstood what was said on the website, but it was not promoted the way you are describing.

FWIW, I used the Wayback Machine (archive.org) and found the "Tour" page from April 5, 2019.  At the top, it says "Tour Dates," followed by "THE DISTANCE OVER TIME TOUR 2019: CELEBRATING 20 YEARS OF ‘METROPOLIS PT. 2 SCENES FROM A MEMORY" (followed by pictures of the DOT and SFAM album covers), and all of the tour dates listed are European dates.  Contrast that with the current version of the "Tour" page, which says, "DISTANCE OVER TIME TOUR: THE SUMMER FESTIVALS featuring a specially curated festival set."


EDIT:  I wrote all of the above before seeing Nofire's post.  That's the page I found as well, and I don't see how any reasonable person seeing that could think anything other than that the same "celebration" of SFAM that was happening in North America would be happening at those European dates.  Regardless of the interviews (which not everyone sees or hears), this was misleading.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Nachtmerrie on June 17, 2019, 12:52:34 PM
To back up noxon's comment, please remember that no major band on tours such as this set their own prices. Bands have a rate for their performance. A promoter agrees to it, and a contract is made, guaranteeing the band that rate. The promoter sets the concert ticket price.

As for this situation, I do remember the band being very clear that they were NOT doing SFAM in its entirety in Europe. The website at the time, is a little misleading, but even that page that someone pulled up on the wayback machine does not state they are doing SFAM in full. Just that they are celebrating SFAM. That is a big difference. Whoever did the website probably should have had a very bolded disclaimer about the European shows not being SFAM in its entirety, just so it was crystal clear.

Mistakes happen, and I am sure the band will take steps to fix the issues moving forward. And the apology, plus JP's personal remarks to bosk, were very classy and forthright.

I can understand not being happy spending a high amount for a 90-minute performance. And I feel bad for our European friends who are. But the money is spent. Go enjoy your favorite (or one of your favorite) band and embrace the show. Knowing DT, they'll find a way to make it up to people. If there's one thing DT has always been about, its making sure fans are happy. If a mistake is made, they make it up at some point.

Based on the website I would say it's makes a lot of sense to assume they would be playing SFAM in full (I did). Right now they are only playing TDOE which isn't a big celebration as much as I like the song.

The announcement confused me and I totally understand others and especially the ones are travelling to attend the shows.

That being said I really enjoyed the Oberhausen show saturday. The so called festival felt a like a 'last minute' decision' with a few band that don't fit a DT-show (except Andy McKee) but DT was great.

The apology by the band is classy and makes a lot of sense.
Totally agree which your conclusion. Mistakes happen and there's is no way DT did this intentionally (not sure about the promotors though).

Let's look forward to the next tour with SFAM in full :tup
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Samsara on June 17, 2019, 12:53:43 PM


EDIT:  I wrote all of the above before seeing Nofire's post.  That's the page I found as well, and I don't see how any reasonable person seeing that could think anything other than that the same "celebration" of SFAM that was happening in North America would be happening at those European dates.  Regardless of the interviews (which not everyone sees or hears), this was misleading.

P,

Rationally, I can't disagree. However, a "celebration" of SFAM can mean many things, including a "suite" of those songs. It doesn't specifically state a full performance. I grant you that people would likely naturally assume that, but...

In any event, I think everyone involved agrees it was misleading. Mistakes were made. I am sure DT will make up for it. They always seem to.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 17, 2019, 01:21:53 PM
I do remember reading/hearing somewhere that this European leg would consist of them playing festival shows, and therefore SFaM would not be featured. I wish I could find exactly where that was stated, as it's not on the official website, and a cursory search on Google didn't turn anything up.

However, I think a big part of the problem is that the band never specifically addressed what would happen at the shows they would play which explicitly are not festivals. While it would be wrong to make assumptions, there has been a precedent set by DT on previous tours when they hit the festival circuit, which can reasonably have set fan expectations. Consider:

DT played festivals while touring Europe during the summers of 1995, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014 and 2015. While they are playing many more festivals this year than any year previously aside from 2015 (where only 1 show was *not* a festival show), at non-festival shows during all those other years, DT played at least a 2 hour show - in fact, they even played all of SFaM during shows in 2000. Even when they were opening for Yes (2004) and Iron Maiden (2010), there were a handful of headlining shows they squeezed in, and each of these was a minimum 2 hour set.

So was it reasonable for fans to expect a longer show than 90ish minutes at non-festival shows based on DT's previous track record? I think so.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: bosk1 on June 17, 2019, 02:09:12 PM
So, I see three issues (sort of):

1.  The way these shows were promoted.  That is what the band was trying to address, and I think they did so admirably.  It sucks that the shows were promoted this way, and even though it isn't the band's fault, they regret that it happened.

2.  The way the web page also mentioned the SFAM anniversary.  Taking another look at it, I see what you guys mean.  I don't think the band even realized that.  They were clear from the beginning that SFAM would NOT be played in Europe this go-around, and I don't think they realized that the web page seemed to imply otherwise.  I'm sure that's an oversight they would like to have back if they could.

3.  The "short" sets.  I see what Scotty is saying about fans naturally assuming longer sets, given the band's track record.  I fully get that, and I understand fan expectation in that regard.  But they weren't in control of the other acts being booked with them, and how much time they would actually get as a result. 
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 17, 2019, 02:26:51 PM
So, I see three issues (sort of):

1.  The way these shows were promoted.  That is what the band was trying to address, and I think they did so admirably.  It sucks that the shows were promoted this way, and even though it isn't the band's fault, they regret that it happened.

2.  The way the web page also mentioned the SFAM anniversary.  Taking another look at it, I see what you guys mean.  I don't think the band even realized that.  They were clear from the beginning that SFAM would NOT be played in Europe this go-around, and I don't think they realized that the web page seemed to imply otherwise.  I'm sure that's an oversight they would like to have back if they could.

3.  The "short" sets.  I see what Scotty is saying about fans naturally assuming longer sets, given the band's track record.  I fully get that, and I understand fan expectation in that regard.  But they weren't in control of the other acts being booked with them, and how much time they would actually get as a result.
Overall, I think that's a fair summary, although I do take issue with your point that the band wasn't in control over the other acts being booked - that may be the case for the actual festival shows, but that's not what we're talking about. The band could've chosen one or two openers for these non-festival shows (which it seems they have, listing Andy McKee, Animals as Leaders and others as opening at certain shows) and still done a 2 hour show and said that's it, instead of allowing the promoters to add a bunch of extra local bands to the bill to fill up the time later. It's how DT did things in the past.

The only other thing that still is questionable is where does the blame properly fall. I mean, the website was ambiguous and not clear that non-festival shows would not be Evening With or even full length (2 hours). But I really question how much the promoters should be blamed - had it been just a couple of promoters that misrepresented their shows, then yeah, it was a misunderstanding on their part. But when every one of the shows is promoted it otherwise, it seems clear that a representative of the band must have dropped the ball in not properly conveying accurate information in the first place.

Additionally, I do feel a little sympathy for the promoters. Why? Because they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. It really appears that they were led to believe that the non-festival shows would be Evening With and/or featuring SFaM gigs when they announced these shows and put tickets up for sale. What do they do after it's been made clear to them *later* that DT's not doing at least a full length show? They're basically screwed. How do you think an announcement of "Um sorry guys, DT's only gonna play 90 minutes, so we're gonna fill the rest of the bill with a bunch of local acts that you've never heard of" gonna go over? I think the response we've seen gives us a good idea. Granted, the promoters should have been upfront as soon as they were made aware and offered refunds to whoever wanted them, because that would be the right thing to do. But I get that they were probably afraid of losing their shirts if they did so and would have to resort to canceling the gig, which would mean they'd be out even more money. I wonder if they would have had any legal recourse to pursue against whoever was responsible for misleading them in the first place - I would imagine there should be, given that contracts were no doubt written up and signed.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: bosk1 on June 17, 2019, 03:18:56 PM
Scotty, I get where you are coming from.  But you are speculating about quite a few things in that post that I do not believe accurately reflect what has happened here.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: cminor on June 17, 2019, 03:39:38 PM
I wouldn't say "clearly," because, again, the band clarified exactly what the tour was.  But, again, I understand the confusion.

I think the problem is rather that the band never released an official public statement concerning the European non-festival shows. In every facebook event you can find dozens of fans asking about the set since the start of the ticket sale and the question also was asked here in the forum several times, so I guess anybody in the DT management must have been aware of the issue. There might have been some interviews which were published in march or april where the band mentioned they won't be playing SFAM, but (a) not every fan watches DT interviews on youtube and (b) the tickets already were on sale since the end of November 2018. So why no official statement? I guess it has to be in the interest of the band that their fans are happy and know what they are paying for.

2. They were clear from the beginning that SFAM would NOT be played in Europe this go-around [...]

Again the band perhaps was clear, but their management (or at least the social media management) definitely was not (at least not from the beginning). This video (https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/videos/186831395604553/ (https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/videos/186831395604553/)) was posted on their official facebook page back in december 2018. It's about their upcoming gig in Italy and it clearly says "Dream Theater playing Scenes From A Memory". Or is it that what they now call "a miscommunication issue somewhere farther down the chain"? I mean come on. I think in 2019 (or 2018 to be precise) you should not use commercials on your official social media page with wrong information and never clarify it. That's misleading.

First post btw. I'm using the forum as a reader for years but never registered.
Greetings from Germany!  :tup
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: tristl on June 17, 2019, 03:49:04 PM
I was two times at a regular DT concert, while they did festivals,
In Oporto before SC came out and in Gelsenkirchen before BCaSL and both times they played full sets.
I am not the biggest Portnoy fan, but i don‘t think, things like that would happen with Portnoy still being in Charge in the back
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: nikatapi on June 18, 2019, 12:05:14 AM
Well, what's done is done, i think the band should have been more careful with the communication and at least check their website and what was re-posted on their social media. I don't believe they did it on purpose.

But, at least for countries like Greece which are not part of every tour, they should consider altering their playlist and total play time, as 90 minutes after 9 years will leave many people disappointed. In 2011 they also had support (Fates Warning) and they played a lengthy set.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Loggins on June 18, 2019, 05:53:53 AM
There are easy technical ways to fix and improve communication, but often there are marketing teams in conversation with managers and others that have no knowledge of the issues. These things are an oversight.

For instance they should have separate distinct web pages for the different tour legs with a short description at the top for the overall tour. That would include information such as estimated set time (unlikely), and the text and images on the page would reflect what is covered instead of making blanket statements for a whole year.

The communication may be partially "the bands" fault (the band being direct employees whos job it is to promote and book), but the cost to me seems expected due to the way promotions work and the fact that the tour is "international" instead of their own home country. I am sure it costs more for the band to play in Germany than to play in New York, and I would bet that the base price in Europe reflects that cost in some way.

A few years ago (self-titled tour, I think) they didn't play in the SouthEast US at all, which to me was a pretty massive oversight.

I do feel like they are listening, and this forum and other means of communication are used to improve the experience, and that is a great thing.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Moor on June 18, 2019, 06:11:26 AM
1. The Tour was announced in November 2018 and was taglined SFAM anniversary tours on the DT official website for over 5 months (until the NA leg was over)! Hence, it would not be totally correct to mention that this miscommunication lasted "for a very short time".

Well, no, that is not entirely correct.  The North American leg of the tour was promoted as the SFAM anniversary tour.  The website did NOT say that any other legs would be SFAM anniversary tours.  And the band had said in interviews that the SFAM tour would not be done in Europe this time around. I'm sorry you misunderstood what was said on the website, but it was not promoted the way you are describing.

Now that the whole issue is clearer, I guess you owe me an apology Bosk for the above.

I am 40 years corporate lawyer and a partner in one of the top 5 law firm in my country, and I was MISLED; I did not in anyway "misunderstood what was said on the website" and it WAS promoted EXACTLY the way I am describing.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: bosk1 on June 18, 2019, 08:43:32 AM
1. The Tour was announced in November 2018 and was taglined SFAM anniversary tours on the DT official website for over 5 months (until the NA leg was over)! Hence, it would not be totally correct to mention that this miscommunication lasted "for a very short time".

Well, no, that is not entirely correct.  The North American leg of the tour was promoted as the SFAM anniversary tour.  The website did NOT say that any other legs would be SFAM anniversary tours.  And the band had said in interviews that the SFAM tour would not be done in Europe this time around. I'm sorry you misunderstood what was said on the website, but it was not promoted the way you are describing.

Now that the whole issue is clearer, I guess you owe me an apology Bosk for the above.

I am 40 years corporate lawyer and a partner in one of the top 5 law firm in my country, and I was MISLED; I did not in anyway "misunderstood what was said on the website" and it WAS promoted EXACTLY the way I am describing.

I don't think that is entirely accurate, as I've said.  I'm sorry you acted on incorrect information.  That information did not come from the band, and as soon as they realized it was incorrect information, they had it pulled down (which is why that is no longer an active page).  As a fan, it sucks to have made a decision based on that.  I completely get it.  I see where you are coming from, and I sympathize.  As do the band.  But I think "misled" is inaccurate, for the reasons I have already stated.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: nikatapi on June 18, 2019, 11:48:44 AM
1. The Tour was announced in November 2018 and was taglined SFAM anniversary tours on the DT official website for over 5 months (until the NA leg was over)! Hence, it would not be totally correct to mention that this miscommunication lasted "for a very short time".

Well, no, that is not entirely correct.  The North American leg of the tour was promoted as the SFAM anniversary tour.  The website did NOT say that any other legs would be SFAM anniversary tours.  And the band had said in interviews that the SFAM tour would not be done in Europe this time around. I'm sorry you misunderstood what was said on the website, but it was not promoted the way you are describing.

Now that the whole issue is clearer, I guess you owe me an apology Bosk for the above.

I am 40 years corporate lawyer and a partner in one of the top 5 law firm in my country, and I was MISLED; I did not in anyway "misunderstood what was said on the website" and it WAS promoted EXACTLY the way I am describing.

I don't think that is entirely accurate, as I've said.  I'm sorry you acted on incorrect information.  That information did not come from the band, and as soon as they realized it was incorrect information, they had it pulled down (which is why that is no longer an active page).  As a fan, it sucks to have made a decision based on that.  I completely get it.  I see where you are coming from, and I sympathize.  As do the band.  But I think "misled" is inaccurate, for the reasons I have already stated.

I'm sorry but if the band's official website is not a trusted source, then i don't know what is.
Again, mistakes do happen and the band had said in several occasions that the 1st european leg would be a "festival" one, but i don't think every fan is as hardcore as we are, and checking out all interviews and such.
In this case, given the previous website state, i think it's not outlandish to say that some people were mislead.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Grappler on June 18, 2019, 12:51:03 PM
I think "misled" is the wrong word to use too, regarding the band's website.   It clearly did not say that they were performing SFAM in full, and only used the word "celebrating."   

Now, combine that celebration with the US tour featuring the full performance of the album and I can see fans and promoters interpreting it to mean that they European tour would feature a full album performance.  But that's not really the band's fault.  They're touring on a new album and will have shorter set lengths.  The band has every right to say "no, we're not going to play the full album."   It sucks if promoters were saying that it would happen, but the band is not going back on THEIR word.

Now, when this happened to Megadeth 5 years ago with the anniversary of Youthanasia and foreign promoters stated that the band would play the album in full, Megadeth said "no, we're not going to do the album, but we will play some extra songs from it."  And they did break out a few rarely played songs from the album to make good on what the fans expected to hear.

Maybe DT can drop one song from their set and add one or two more from SFAM.  Maybe they won't....but I don't see the band being at fault for this.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 18, 2019, 04:13:18 PM
Scotty, I get where you are coming from.  But you are speculating about quite a few things in that post that I do not believe accurately reflect what has happened here.
I know I am speculating - I won't deny that. But based on what is known, what other logical conclusion is there?
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: bosk1 on June 18, 2019, 04:33:04 PM
Respectfully, that is the wrong question.  Given that there IS other information that is not known to the general public, one should not draw "logical conclusions" based on only what is known, because that is only a partial picture.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Evermind on June 18, 2019, 04:50:55 PM
I think "misled" is the wrong word to use too, regarding the band's website.   It clearly did not say that they were performing SFAM in full, and only used the word "celebrating."   

Now, combine that celebration with the US tour featuring the full performance of the album and I can see fans and promoters interpreting it to mean that they European tour would feature a full album performance.  But that's not really the band's fault.  They're touring on a new album and will have shorter set lengths.  The band has every right to say "no, we're not going to play the full album."   It sucks if promoters were saying that it would happen, but the band is not going back on THEIR word.

Now, when this happened to Megadeth 5 years ago with the anniversary of Youthanasia and foreign promoters stated that the band would play the album in full, Megadeth said "no, we're not going to do the album, but we will play some extra songs from it."  And they did break out a few rarely played songs from the album to make good on what the fans expected to hear.

Maybe DT can drop one song from their set and add one or two more from SFAM.  Maybe they won't....but I don't see the band being at fault for this.

I mean, "celebrating" is a bit rich considering they're only playing TDOE.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: geeeemo on June 18, 2019, 10:24:21 PM
It really feels like we're splitting hairs here on what was communicated. I think the bottom line is if a lot of fans are bummed/upset that isnt good. While the job of promotion is delegated, the buck stops with the band. It's Their band... It only takes a minute for someone in the band to read the website. Just my perception and I am a Total fan.

As an aside. I have read many times here on the forum where many would love to see DT play with so and so band. Now the complaint is we need more DT and want an "Evening With". (I personally would never want to share my DT experience with any other band.) :heart
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Lethean on June 18, 2019, 10:49:33 PM
I agree with geeemo and was going to make a similar comment about the buck stopping with the band.  I don't think anyone thinks this was intentional.  But the apology seems a little defensive and the statement that it was only for a short time isn't exactly correct.  People are commenting on Facebook about how the Facebook events (accessible from the band's page) mentioned SFAM anniversary.  Someone posted a video (since deleted) for an Italian show that mentioned SFAM in the video advertising.  I think the band should do something - I don't know exactly what.  Offering a refund for the remaining shows might be a nice gesture.  If it were me, I probably wouldn't take them up on it and would see the show anyway.  But the offer would make me feel better.  Maybe another apology, maybe a video one, saying they're so sorry and sounding sincere.  And an assurance that they're going to be on top of it from here on out.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Fritzinger on June 18, 2019, 11:32:32 PM
I agree with geeemo and was going to make a similar comment about the buck stopping with the band.  I don't think anyone thinks this was intentional.  But the apology seems a little defensive and the statement that it was only for a short time isn't exactly correct.  People are commenting on Facebook about how the Facebook events (accessible from the band's page) mentioned SFAM anniversary.  Someone posted a video (since deleted) for an Italian show that mentioned SFAM in the video advertising.  I think the band should do something - I don't know exactly what.  Offering a refund for the remaining shows might be a nice gesture.  If it were me, I probably wouldn't take them up on it and would see the show anyway.  But the offer would make me feel better.  Maybe another apology, maybe a video one, saying they're so sorry and sounding sincere.  And an assurance that they're going to be on top of it from here on out.

Of course, deciding to play SFAM of the non-festival shows after all is not going to happen.

But that's not my (and many other's) complaint. My problem is that I payed quite bit of money (by far the most expensive DT show I have bought tickets for) and would like a little more than just 90 minutes of DT music. They could extend their 90 minute set into a 120 minute set. I haven't seen the setlist (and I don't want to), but add some cool things! The run from TDOE to Finally Free. Or Octavarium as a finale! But I don't think there is enough time to rearrange the show since DT shows have become very controlled and "perfect" since MP left (click, setlist the same every night, lights, etc - not a criticism, just an observation).
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: nikatapi on June 19, 2019, 12:12:27 AM
I agree with geeemo and was going to make a similar comment about the buck stopping with the band.  I don't think anyone thinks this was intentional.  But the apology seems a little defensive and the statement that it was only for a short time isn't exactly correct.  People are commenting on Facebook about how the Facebook events (accessible from the band's page) mentioned SFAM anniversary.  Someone posted a video (since deleted) for an Italian show that mentioned SFAM in the video advertising.  I think the band should do something - I don't know exactly what.  Offering a refund for the remaining shows might be a nice gesture.  If it were me, I probably wouldn't take them up on it and would see the show anyway.  But the offer would make me feel better.  Maybe another apology, maybe a video one, saying they're so sorry and sounding sincere.  And an assurance that they're going to be on top of it from here on out.

Of course, deciding to play SFAM of the non-festival shows after all is not going to happen.

But that's not my (and many other's) complaint. My problem is that I payed quite bit of money (by far the most expensive DT show I have bought tickets for) and would like a little more than just 90 minutes of DT music. They could extend their 90 minute set into a 120 minute set. I haven't seen the setlist (and I don't want to), but add some cool things! The run from TDOE to Finally Free. Or Octavarium as a finale! But I don't think there is enough time to rearrange the show since DT shows have become very controlled and "perfect" since MP left (click, setlist the same every night, lights, etc - not a criticism, just an observation).

Υeah i think if the duration of the show was longer (as it was in past similar "festival"/support shows) people wouldn't be so disappointed. And as far as i know it's not like the promoters wanted to have "festivals" (sometimes with unknown bands) everywhere, it was a management decision to have the tour the way it is. Maybe adding half an hour in DT set would make the pill less hard to swallow for people who booked their (expensive) tickets based on non-accurate information available through official communication channels (FB, DT website). I don't think that is splitting hairs to be honest.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: cminor on June 19, 2019, 01:11:33 AM
Offering a refund for the remaining shows might be a nice gesture.

That's exactly what happened in Oberhausen last week. If I remember correctly, the schedule was posted on Tuesday morning and in the evening (after a lot of fans complained) the promoter agreed that tickets could be refunded. But this must have been a decision of the promoter, I guess no one from the band management was involved or even asked. So yeah, a refund (or a discount) for the remaining non festival dates would be an option, but I think the chance it's gonna happen is pretty small.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Moor on June 19, 2019, 04:30:37 AM
I think "misled" is the wrong word to use too, regarding the band's website.   It clearly did not say that they were performing SFAM in full, and only used the word "celebrating."   

You sound exactly like DT lawyers .... and DT here stands for Donald Trump !!   :rollin
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Grappler on June 19, 2019, 06:16:26 AM
I think "misled" is the wrong word to use too, regarding the band's website.   It clearly did not say that they were performing SFAM in full, and only used the word "celebrating."   

You sound exactly like DT lawyers .... and DT here stands for Donald Trump !!   :rollin

 :rollin

I just side with the band on this one.  It sucks that fans are disappointed, but aside from some confusing language on the band's website, I don't see that it's their fault at all.  Hopefully they adjust the set and give fans a little more from SFAM.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: The Curious Orange on June 19, 2019, 06:50:42 AM
Well, look on the bright side - you're getting to see DT play a unique set with Peruvian Skies and Lie, plus you get to see them again next year!

I wish they'd hurry up and announce a proper European tour. It's a bit of a tradition here in the UK that bands who play the Download festival (held last weekend) as their "only UK show" of the year tend to announce shows for the end of the year in the week after - we've already seen a lot of the bands who were on the bill to exactly that, and it's only Wednesday. Jus' sayin'
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: KevShmev on June 19, 2019, 07:13:15 AM
Quote from: Fritzinger link=topic=53988.msg2560047#msg2560047

But that's not my (and many other's) complaint. My problem is that I payed quite bit of money (by far the most expensive DT show I have bought tickets for) and would like a little more than just 90 minutes of DT music. They could extend their 90 minute set into a 120 minute set. I haven't seen the setlist (and I don't want to), but add some cool things! The run from TDOE to Finally Free. Or Octavarium as a finale! But I don't think there is enough time to rearrange the show since DT shows have become very controlled and "perfect" since MP left (click, setlist the same every night, lights, etc - not a criticism, just an observation).

While I agree with some of that last part, it is worth noting that the set lists have not been the same every night on this tour (no spoilers).
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Fritzinger on June 19, 2019, 09:10:24 AM
Well, look on the bright side - you're getting to see DT play a unique set with Peruvian Skies and Lie, plus you get to see them again next year!

I wish they'd hurry up and announce a proper European tour. It's a bit of a tradition here in the UK that bands who play the Download festival (held last weekend) as their "only UK show" of the year tend to announce shows for the end of the year in the week after - we've already seen a lot of the bands who were on the bill to exactly that, and it's only Wednesday. Jus' sayin'

Don't spoil any more of the setlist please... :-[
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Ben_Jamin on June 19, 2019, 09:58:08 AM
Seems to me the complaints are mainly about paying too much. That IS NOT ON THE BAND. If you have a problem with the pricing, take it up with the promoters as they set the prices.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Lethean on June 19, 2019, 10:13:50 AM
I don't think they're complaining about paying too much. If they thought it was too much, they either wouldn't have paid, or they would have paid but complained at the time tickets went on sale. :)

People are saying they paid too much for what they are now aware that they'll be getting. They thought they were paying a full set featuring Scenes from a Memory.  Now they find out they're getting a 90 minute or less set.  And this particular miscommunication eventually does fall on the band. The band (or someone working for them) should have checked their website and the Facebook events on the band's page.

I love DT, and certainly consider myself to be on "their side." But like geemo said, the buck stops there.  Acknowledge your role in this, offer a refund, maybe add a few more songs, and fix it for next time.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Dave_Manchester on June 19, 2019, 10:53:02 AM
The fairest thing to do from here is for the band to advertise forthcoming American shows on their website as a "celebration" of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, then spend 90 minutes of every show singing Happy Birthday to a vinyl copy of the album before rounding it off with an encore of Whispers on the Wind. It would probably suck, but technically - technically! - nobody was misled.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: pg1067 on June 19, 2019, 11:42:35 AM
Well, look on the bright side - you're getting to see DT play a unique set with Peruvian Skies and Lie

If Peruvian Skies and Lie is "the bright side," I hate to see the alternative!
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: cramx3 on June 19, 2019, 12:14:16 PM
Haven't there been quite a few mess ups with the tours since MP left? 
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Lonk on June 19, 2019, 02:27:49 PM
I feel like there’s been mess up the last 3 tours.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: The Walrus on June 19, 2019, 03:02:39 PM
Mislead is a fucking great JLB solo track. Maybe they should play that at the shows as an encore  :lol
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Evermind on June 19, 2019, 10:29:41 PM
With JP lip-synching singing the growls.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Moor on June 20, 2019, 01:50:51 AM
Mislead is a fucking great JLB solo track. Maybe they should play that at the shows as an encore  :lol

I am sure Bosk would rather they play "Misunderstood"  :lol
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Fritzinger on June 20, 2019, 03:16:40 AM
Mislead is a fucking great JLB solo track. Maybe they should play that at the shows as an encore  :lol

I am sure Bosk would rather they play "Misunderstood"  :lol

With Haken as supporting act.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: creatchy on June 20, 2019, 04:29:14 PM
I was with two friends at the Dream Theater show last weekend in Oberhausen. I have been (with the same friends) at 4 Dream Theater shows in the past and a vast number of other concerts, some serious names, I am not going to mention here, we have attended in the past 30 years.

I bought our tickets in February this year, just because the Tour was announced to have the full Mt. Pt 2 Set included. The Ticket states: 'Dream Theater - Distance over time Tour  2019'. No mention of support acts or anything like a 'Festival'. Well, it turned out, that the local promoter turned the concert into a 'Festival' with some kind of crappy support acts without letting us know!

We, as loyal fans of Dream Theater, are absolutely shocked and disappointed of a 1,5 hours set, without the promised SOAM. So, that we consider not to go to DT gigs anymore in the future and/or having the tickets booked last minute, as, obviously, changes can happen.

So, to sum up - it was a very, very, very big disappointment for us, that the show only lasted 1,5h AND no SOAM was played. Really, really disappointed...
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: KevShmev on June 20, 2019, 05:38:37 PM
I was with two friends at the Dream Theater show last weekend in Oberhausen. I have been (with the same friends) at 4 Dream Theater shows in the past and a vast number of other concerts, some serious names, I am not going to mention here, we have attended in the past 30 years.

I bought our tickets in February this year, just because the Tour was announced to have the full Mt. Pt 2 Set included. The Ticket states: 'Dream Theater - Distance over time Tour  2019'. No mention of support acts or anything like a 'Festival'. Well, it turned out, that the local promoter turned the concert into a 'Festival' with some kind of crappy support acts without letting us know!

We, as loyal fans of Dream Theater, are absolutely shocked and disappointed of a 1,5 hours set, without the promised SOAM. So, that we consider not to go to DT gigs anymore in the future and/or having the tickets booked last minute, as, obviously, changes can happen.

So, to sum up - it was a very, very, very big disappointment for us, that the show only lasted 1,5h AND no SOAM was played. Really, really disappointed...

I understand your disappointment, but it sounds like the issue was with the promoter, not the band.  I would definitely do a little investigating next time to make sure you are getting what is being promoted, but I wouldn't rule out seeing the band again because of this.  :)

And welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Nofire on June 21, 2019, 01:52:56 AM
I understand your disappointment, but it sounds like the issue was with the promoter, not the band.  I would definitely do a little investigating next time to make sure you are getting what is being promoted, but I wouldn't rule out seeing the band again because of this.  :)

And welcome to the forum!

If there was only one or a few promoters that got this wrong, I would agree with you. But with promoters all over Europe making the same mistake, that leads me to believe that there must have been some kind of unintentional miscommunication from the band/management side.

I don't know much about how concert arrangements and promotion works, but how can it not be common praxis for band management to approve of any marketing material made for the concerts? If I would hand over marketing responsibilities to an external supplier, I would sure as heck want to make sure that they are 100% correct in what information they release.

One last thing: Congrats on the Blues winning the cup! Well deserved after years of being a contender :-)
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: KevShmev on June 21, 2019, 08:24:04 AM
Thanks!

And after reading more about it, I agree with the rest of what you said.  This mistake was obviously not done on purpose by the band, but it definitely sounds like those they employ to take care of this stuff did not pay attention to the details to make sure all i's were dotted and t's were crossed, so to speak.  Bummer for the fans who bought tickets thinking they were getting something they were not.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: gzarruk on June 21, 2019, 10:05:18 AM
Moral of the story: No more album anniversary tours :lol

Seriously, I really hope the remaining legs of the D/T tour are focused on the new album + some songs from the rest of the catalog instead of the whole SFAM for set 2. This anniversary thing isn’t working well for them, imo.

Also, DT focusing on D/T and not SFAM on the D/T tour run in Europe, what a shock! (too lazy to use the green font).
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: cramx3 on June 21, 2019, 10:11:47 AM
This anniversary thing isn’t working well for them, imo.

I actually think it's working very well for them, hence why they keep doing it. 
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: pg1067 on June 21, 2019, 10:25:43 AM
Moral of the story: No more album anniversary tours :lol

Seriously, I really hope the remaining legs of the D/T tour are focused on the new album + some songs from the rest of the catalog instead of the whole SFAM for set 2. This anniversary thing isn’t working well for them, imo.

How do you figure?  And how is whether it's "working well for them" something about which anyone other than the band could have a valid opinion?
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: gzarruk on June 21, 2019, 10:41:22 AM
Moral of the story: No more album anniversary tours :lol

Seriously, I really hope the remaining legs of the D/T tour are focused on the new album + some songs from the rest of the catalog instead of the whole SFAM for set 2. This anniversary thing isn’t working well for them, imo.

How do you figure?  And how is whether it's "working well for them" something about which anyone other than the band could have a valid opinion?

Because of all the fans complaining about not getting SFAM played at their show. This is supposed to be the Distance Over Time tour, supporting their widely acclaimed new album, but instead they tried to do both things and now SFAM takes the spotlight away from D/T. That’s why things got confusing for many fans/promoters to begin with.

And, btw, I was talking about this not working well for their image and the fans’ perception/opinions, not financially or anything else. But, again, it’s just my opinion.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Fritzinger on June 21, 2019, 10:45:57 AM
This anniversary thing isn’t working well for them, imo.

I actually think it's working very well for them, hence why they keep doing it.

Plus, it looks like everyone wants to see it. Everyone is complaining about not being able to see SFAM in Europe.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Lethean on June 21, 2019, 10:51:14 AM
The fans are complaining about not getting SFAM because they thought that's what they were getting and someone dropped the ball.  Not because the anniversary thing in general isn't working.  This tour got screwed up, and they need to get someone who's going to stay on top of these things. Even if there was no SFAM in the mix, people would have been upset thinking they were getting a full DT headline show, and then seeing multiple bands being added to the roster at the last minute. This was a communication problem. One that they can easily remedy in the future.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: RoeDent on June 21, 2019, 12:01:52 PM
Anniversaries mean the band doesn't have to think too hard about the setlist. Half the concert can be dealt with in one fell swoop by just playing an entire album in full.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: pg1067 on June 21, 2019, 01:12:23 PM
Moral of the story: No more album anniversary tours :lol

Seriously, I really hope the remaining legs of the D/T tour are focused on the new album + some songs from the rest of the catalog instead of the whole SFAM for set 2. This anniversary thing isn’t working well for them, imo.

How do you figure?  And how is whether it's "working well for them" something about which anyone other than the band could have a valid opinion?

Because of all the fans complaining about not getting SFAM played at their show. This is supposed to be the Distance Over Time tour, supporting their widely acclaimed new album, but instead they tried to do both things and now SFAM takes the spotlight away from D/T. That’s why things got confusing for many fans/promoters to begin with.

And, btw, I was talking about this not working well for their image and the fans’ perception/opinions, not financially or anything else. But, again, it’s just my opinion.

I'm still not following what you're saying.  While I understand the snafu that has resulted with the small number of European dates where folks have gotten confused (regardless of how that confusion occurred), I don't see how that translates to anniversary tours in general not working well for the band.  The U.S. dates seemed to be incredibly well-received, and the disappointment relating to the European dates all seems to relate to the band NOT playing SFAM in its entirety.  In other words, folks are disappointed that the European dates ARE NOT party of an "anniversary tour," and things would have been better if they had been.

There are obvious issues relating to the promotion of these European dates, and one would hope -- and probably can reasonably assume -- that this has been and will continue to be addressed by the band's management.  Whether anniversary tours/shows are a good idea going forward is a completely separate issue.

As far as remaining legs of the tour, I believe the information that has been made public this far is that future U.S. dates will not include SFAM in its entirety but that some future European dates will include it.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: KevShmev on June 21, 2019, 08:49:03 PM
I'm not sure what to believe anymore regarding the future legs on the current tour, but if they come to St Louis, I hope they have ditched all of Scenes by then and play more of the new album.  I miss the days when DT would release a new album and then feature it heavily in the set lists of the tour that immediately followed the album's release.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Anguyen92 on June 21, 2019, 09:41:08 PM
I honestly don't care what set DT would play, but if they do come back to SoCal, I hope they ditch the all seats arrangements and make the typical GA section of the venue an all standing GA and if people want to sit, they can choose the sections that have seats.  Everyone is going to be on their feet anyway.

As for the topic, I guess it would have been ideal to be more upfront in all outlets (band's website, social media, any interviews they give to any rock publications) that they were not playing SFAM in full on this Europe tour and quell the backlash.  Of course, it would have been a lot easier to just forgo doing festivals and non-festival shows in the first place and just do the set they were doing in the NA tour, but in Europe, and there would have been no issues regarding intention of what the set is.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Mladen on June 22, 2019, 02:46:28 AM
I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for an European leg featuring the entire SFAM, but after all of this confusion, I wonder if the promoters would bother making it happen. I sort of picked up from the interviews that the summer shows wouldn't feature SFAM, so I decided to wait it out. We'll see if it will be worth it.  ;D

After they're done with SFAM anniversary, I'd like a more balanced set for the next tour.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: MirrorMask on June 22, 2019, 03:41:39 AM
I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for an European leg featuring the entire SFAM

It's one of those things that you read about and then maybe can't remember correctly, but I swear that the moment I learnt about DT not playing SFAM is when I saw reported a quote from James that in Europe they wouldn't play the whole album 'cause they would come back later in the year / early next year to do it.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: creatchy on June 22, 2019, 08:47:48 PM
Fact is: DT lost many fans all over Europe due to this behaviour. The misinformation about the setlist/timetable/Fake-Festivals does not only affect 'a small number of gigs in Europe', as stated somewhere above. It is affecting the majority of the European concerts. And the European tour is quite long: 24 shows.

I read in local Forums (Germany) that even or especially long time fans are so disappointed, that they will not go to DT concerts anymore.
I think, whoever (and I don't care anymore, whose fault this was), messed this up, did not do a favour to the band. Losing fans, regardless how 'big' a band is, is never a good thing.

Let's hope for better next time, I, for myself, now will be VERY careful buying tickets for DT shows.

Sorry, but still more than disappointed...

Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Dreammajesty on June 23, 2019, 02:38:55 AM
Hmm i already knew it wasn't going to be an SFAM show but i was going anyway.Don't recall how i knew this.But anyways the added bands didn't do much for me so i arived at the Oberhausen show just before they started.It was a great show as Always.The only thing that was dissapointing was when James said at 1:18:00   Thank you goodnight !!   Ehhrrr wait what ?? This Dream Theater right?? Ah so we still have an hour ?? Well nope after As I Am  it was over which was dissapointing for the 60 euro's times 2.
But i'm still a fan . ;)
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Fritzinger on June 23, 2019, 02:58:25 AM
Argh please stop spoiling the setlist here  :'(
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: MirrorMask on June 23, 2019, 04:13:41 AM
Argh please stop spoiling the setlist here  :'(
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Lethean on June 23, 2019, 10:02:57 AM
This place is not good about not spoiling the setlist.  I remember a couple songs getting spoiled for the I&W and Beyond tour, one even before the very first show!  After a second song got spoiled I just decided to stop visiting until after the first show I saw.  Which you shouldn't have to do, but...
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Evermind on June 23, 2019, 11:19:54 AM
I'm just glad I've finally seen Raw Dog live. A weird choice since they only had 80 minutes to play, but a welcome one still.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: SystematicThought on June 23, 2019, 01:16:10 PM
Raw Dog was a shock, but even more shocking was The Mission Impossible Theme and Resurrection of Ernie from the WDADU demos
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 23, 2019, 03:18:15 PM
Amazing how scary the new lyrics to Resurrection of Ernie ended up being! Who would've thought JP could come up with horror film type lyrics that don't sound corny?
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: The Curious Orange on June 26, 2019, 04:54:28 AM
DT lost many fans all over Europe due to this behaviour...  fans are so disappointed, that they will not go to DT concerts anymore.

Makes me wonder whether they were "true fans" or just "fair weather" fans. I didn't go due to the lack of UK shows, but it sounds like a great setlist and a great night. Oh for the days when you didn't know what a band was going to play until you turned up on the night and saw them play it. 
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: nikatapi on June 26, 2019, 06:00:15 AM
DT lost many fans all over Europe due to this behaviour...  fans are so disappointed, that they will not go to DT concerts anymore.

Makes me wonder whether they were "true fans" or just "fair weather" fans. I didn't go due to the lack of UK shows, but it sounds like a great setlist and a great night. Oh for the days when you didn't know what a band was going to play until you turned up on the night and saw them play it.

Well i think even "true" fans would be disappointed to pay ~100 euros or so to see the band play for 90 minutes (given they usually play more than 2 hours).
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: tristl on June 29, 2019, 12:33:20 AM
In Dresden they played 86 minutes, there where two obscure opening acts,
Massive soud problems, it was by far the worst of the 16 DT concerts i was attending :tdwn
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: CharlesPL on June 29, 2019, 12:48:09 AM
In Berlin was ok, next european an evening format in Jan/Feb
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Mladen on June 29, 2019, 12:14:36 PM
Source?
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: CharlesPL on June 29, 2019, 12:38:55 PM
James said it in Berlin
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Peter Mc on June 30, 2019, 10:29:47 AM
Maybe the band could’ve communicated a little better but they have done these little shows in Europe during festival runs lots of times and they have always been their own thing in odd venues  with opening acts and not the set list that they would do on a proper European tour. I can’t believe any DT fan would go into these shows expecting the full “evening with” experience with a 3 hour set and all of SFAM.

I fully expect DT to return for a full European tour later this year or early next year and it to be a full show in their usual venues. Whether or not they’re still doing SFAM at that point, I’m really not too concerned as I’ve seen it before. I would love to see it again but will also likely love whatever they decide to do. For those who haven’t seen SFAM live, I hope they do it for your sake.
Title: Re: A message from the band regarding recent European dates
Post by: Peter Mc on June 30, 2019, 01:22:11 PM
Ok, just read a little more and it seems like the shows were actually wrongly advertised so it is more understandable that people are pissed off.