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General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: MinistroRaven on April 03, 2019, 08:26:21 AM
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The trailer has dropped
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7286456/videoplayer/vi2883960089?ref_=tt_ov_vi
This is a great character, and seems Phoenix has done a great job. I am anxiously waiting for this movie.
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Yea, that trailer looks really cool. Looking forward to this one.
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It does look good. And it looks like a really interesting portrayal. But...I dunno, this isn't limited to the Joker, but for me, when we get a bunch of different portrayals of a character, it dilutes the character and feels off. I don't like the constant reboots and retellings. We've had now three completely different Joker characters recently enough to where I don't see the point of adding another one, no matter how well done the story is. Again, maybe this is just my own issue, but it's just hard for me to get past that. Another example for me is Spiderman. I LOVE Tom Holland's portrayal and what they have done with the character in the MCU. But I also have difficulty ignoring the two other recent Spiderman series that have been done, and it starts to blur together and dilute my enthusiasm for what Marvel is doing with the character. Maybe that doesn't make sense to anyone but me, but it is what it is.
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I agree with Bosk. To me, the biggest issue with the Joker is that there will now be two different version of him existing at the same time, which are not meant to be the same character. It's one thing to have an origin story for Jared Leto's Joker. The way this is being done is just weird. I get it's standalone movie outside of the DCEU, but I agree it sort of dilutes the character a bit.
That said, it looks pretty good!
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It does look good. And it looks like a really interesting portrayal. But...I dunno, this isn't limited to the Joker, but for me, when we get a bunch of different portrayals of a character, it dilutes the character and feels off. I don't like the constant reboots and retellings. We've had now three completely different Joker characters recently enough to where I don't see the point of adding another one, no matter how well done the story is. Again, maybe this is just my own issue, but it's just hard for me to get past that. Another example for me is Spiderman. I LOVE Tom Holland's portrayal and what they have done with the character in the MCU. But I also have difficulty ignoring the two other recent Spiderman series that have been done, and it starts to blur together and dilute my enthusiasm for what Marvel is doing with the character. Maybe that doesn't make sense to anyone but me, but it is what it is.
Completely this. I have no doubt that Phoenix is going to kill this role. He's a great actor. But like Bosk says......the amount of reboots and re-imaginings of these characters/shows etc etc is starting to cheapen them.
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When they first announced this movie, I thought, "Oh no." Then they announced that it would have a backstory to Joker and I thought, "Oh no. He shouldn't have his own film, part of his mystique is not going so in-depth on his backstory, that shroud of mystery is part of what makes Heath Ledger's Joker just work." But I can't lie... that's a good trailer. It actually looks good. At the same time, while I don't share bosk's concern about the multiple iterations and reboots, I'm still wary because of what I just wrote about not showing Joker's backstory... but this is already way ahead of Jared Leto's Joker, and that alone has me interested in this. Basically, this was a very pleasant surprise!
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I absolutely loved it. The Joker origin has been attempted before in the comics (this draws a bit from the story that for some reason I'm blanking on its name). In that story, Joker was a struggling comedian who got in with the wrong crowd. His wife was killed and it set him over the age. I'm a huge Batman fan and collector, and it might have been Killing Joke, but I don't remember for certain as it has been ages since I read it (I should really re-read it).
Joaquin Phoenix really looks good so far. I'm excited for this one, big time.
While bosk's sentiment is understandable, and in some ways, I agree, if DCU is going to have a new Batman film (which they are, which concentrates on the detective aspect of Batman's character), they needed to re-cast the Joker in an appropriate way. Leto's LOOK is downright awful (although I think his portrayal may have been great had the look been right, because the acting was fine), and unpopular. And Gotham the TV show...that Joker and that whole series exists in a vacuum. So, they needed Batman's arch enemy if they were going to continue the Batman character. So this makes all sorts of sense.
If I remember right, The Batman is supposed to hit theaters in late 2020, and feature a younger Batman -- not an origin story, just the character in the early years of his career (fingers crossed for Robin). The last of the scripts have been delivered, and principal photography is supposed to start this fall. So we get The Joker in October 2019, and theoretically, probably The Batman for the holiday season in 2020.
I'm hoping if the first Joker film and the new Batman film go well, we get one after that, that incorporates the death of Robin at some point that draws off The Death in the Family arc. Its dated with the Saudi Arabia stuff, and campy, given the Joker was made a dignitary. However, I think the seeds of the arc (the Jason Todd Robin discovering he was adopted and his birth mother was still alive and goes searching for her) could lead to a creepy, disturbing tale of the Joker kidnapping her, and then killing Robin.
Anyway, I'm excited to wash away the awful screw ups of DCU regarding the Affleck version of Batman and the whole "let's do the same thing as MCU and try to catch up with them" mentality. This is a fresh start regarding the Batman franchise, and Joaquin Phoenix is a great choice to portray the Joker. REALLY looking forward to it. The trailer was great.
Hopefully the movie will follow suit.
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I didn't love the trailer and I didn't hate it. Haven't really made up my mind on it honestly.
Joker is one of my favorite characters, so I can't see myself not going to see it. Unfortunately, October feels so far away.
I wonder what the ratio will be of Backstory/Full joker. I would like to get a decent amount of time of him as the joker, but we'll see.
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I don't disagree with any of what Samsara posted. But just let me say this...
And before I do, let me just say again that I'm not trying to talk myself or anyone else out of liking this film. At least from the trailer, this looks good. REALLY good.
...But DC has made such a mess with its films. And, of course, this isn't limited just to them. But since this is a DC film, it is relevant. I mean, we had Nolan's Batman series first. And it was mostly brilliant. I think the third chapter had some problems. And because Nolan self-limited to a trilogy, I think that in retrospect, we got an overall timeline that was too compressed and doesn't completely make sense for a whole character arc for Wayne/Batman. And then we get the "DCU" films following SO quickly after that, even though they are clearly intended to be completely different characters, there is still confusion created by using the same characters in unrelated universes so close together. And then, on top of that, you have a DCU that is so convolluted and confusing in and of itself. So while this looks really cool, I'm sure I'm not the only fan that simultaneously feels like we have had too many different version of these characters too close together.
Honestly, though, this isn't a problem unique to the films. I might be in the minority on this, but it also used to bother me when I followed comics as a teen and then young adult when a new author would take over a franchise and, in doing so, would completely reinterpret the characters and ignore (i.e.--outright contradict) past storylines for those characters. I mean, I guess that's only natural when, for example, you have a character like Spiderman appearing in 1962...but then in 1980-something, Peter Parker is STILL a high school student and you have to find ways to make that work. I get it. But it's still pretty confusing at the same time.
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The trailer starts out with the character talking about his mother and my initial reaction was 'NO, NOT AGAIN!" Another DC Universe movie hinging on a character's relationship with their mom. :lol
It looks interesting, and I'm sure Joaquin Phoenix is going to be fantastic.
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Interesting reactions from fans over the Batman-News.com FB page:
If your a comic book film person. Then this film was not created for you. The Joker film definitely took a lot of inspiration from Robert DeNiro "King of Comedy" film
I’m a comic person and this is created for me too. You just have to separate yourself from what you know, and enjoy something new. It’s not canon. It’s just a story!
This is a fucking masterpiece one shot and I’m beyond satisfied with this mash up of Romero/Nicholson/Azzarello feel.
I'm getting vibes of the flashback scenes from the killing joke animated feature
Comic book fans are going to trash this film. But if your a well rounded movie watcher you'll appreciate this film.
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The trailer did actually look really interesting and I think Joaquin is definitely perfect for that kind of portrayal however I do share the general concern about too many reboots at this point.
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Not generally being a fan specifically of comic book universe based films, this looks intriguing.
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Don’t care too much about it, but sincerely hoping that after its release I don’t have to keep hearing about Heath Ledger anymore.
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Looks cool, but I'm wondering how they'll handle the absence of Batman.
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Don’t care too much about it, but sincerely hoping that after its release I don’t have to keep hearing about Heath Ledger anymore.
Why? He was amazing in that role.
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Don’t care too much about it, but sincerely hoping that after its release I don’t have to keep hearing about Heath Ledger anymore.
Why? He was amazing in that role.
THIS
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I’ve seen countless great acting performances but none seem to get shoved down my throat more than that one, that’s why.
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Aren't you being a bit sensitive on this subject? When was the last time anybody talked about Ledger? Of course with his Post death Oscar push you'd hear it then but after that?
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It’s probably just a result of being on this forum, honestly. I rarely see other great performances mentioned.
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Well, there's a reason Ledger's joker is so highly praised and talked about to this day, dude. But the only times I see Ledger even brought up around these parts are when Joker is being talked about... rightfully so, because he is largely considered to be the best of the Jokers, which is more apparent since they 1) took it in a different direction after him and 2) failed miserably with Leto in the role. Phoenix seems to be on the right path though if that trailer is any indication.
If you want other great performances mentioned, first I have to ask, are you referring to great performances by villains, or heroes, or any film actor in general? Ledger stands out specifically because there aren't a whole lot of 'amazing' acting performances in comic book movies (Marvel's been getting good lately, though) - and in 2008, Ledger blew the freaking roof off of it and really showed that a "comic book character" can be brought to life just as much as any prestigious actor portraying a character in an original film.
Spoiler though: if you think you're not going to hear about Ledger after this, I have some bad news for you. Ledger will always be brought up when cinematic Joker portrayals are the subject.
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It’s probably just a result of being on this forum, honestly. I rarely see other great performances mentioned.
I am looking forward to this though. I like the psychology of him becoming the Joker. This is what they tried to do with the first Hulk not in the MCU but failed. Hopefully, this one delivers.
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@Kattleox - honestly imo it’s overrated. And I’m talking about ALL movies I’ve seen released from 1920 til today, and Mr Ledger didn’t invent acting.
Edit: just one example, Deniro in Cape Fear is a far superior villain performance imo. The guy scared the shit out of me.
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Deniro has phoned it in for 2 decades. And Heath did reinvent The Joker. Read about it.
https://uproxx.com/movies/heath-ledger-the-joker-preparation/2/
Honestly, up to this movie, I looked at Heath as an average actor. But this was a tour de force of a role he reinvented.
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I'm just months away from 50 years old....I've followed cinema my entire life....even saw Star Wars in its original theater run...and I'm telling you that Heath Ledger was the greatest cinematic villain in movie history. Blew Darth Vader out of the water. I could watch The Dark Knight over and over again just because of that performance. It was so good, that I almost forget the movie was supposed to be about Batman.
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@Kattleox - honestly imo it’s overrated. And I’m talking about ALL movies I’ve seen released from 1920 til today, and Mr Ledger didn’t invent acting.
Edit: just one example, Deniro in Cape Fear is a far superior villain performance imo. The guy scared the shit out of me.
What other roles are superior to Heath Ledger's performance? I'm genuinely curious what you put over it. Nobody ever said Ledger invented acting, but the level to which he immersed himself in the role of The Joker and really brought it to life is almost unprecedented. It's a performance you very rarely ever see from an actor.
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Good god people.
I doubt too many people have the opinion that Ledger's performance is the greatest performance ever on screen. Arguing against that is a bit hyperbolic and missing the point.
Anyway, new movie looks good.
I actually like this approach. They're not rebooting anything. They're just doing something new. They're breaking continuity and allowing a personal a film maker to make his own interpretation of the character. As far as I know, Leto is still the "main" Joker, for better worse. Mostly worse. But this is a neat look into how someone else sees the character. Don't see the problem there. It's not at all like Spider-Man, where every new version was supposed to be the new, definitive, and sole version. This isn't trying to do that at all.
They do this stuff in comics all the time. You'll get a random story about someone that is totally out of continuity and is just a writer/artist exploring a neat story that couldn't be told in the main universe.
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I wasn't arguing, I was just asking a question about what he puts above it given that opinion about Ledger is in the minority. It's all good.
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I wasn't arguing, I was just asking a question about what he puts above it given that opinion about Ledger is in the minority. It's all good.
It wasn’t really a response to you. Just happened to come after yours.
Also his commitment is not at all unprecedented. Daniel Day Lewis made a whole career out of it.
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Good, just wanted to be clear :biggrin:
And I should have clarified. I meant unprecedented for a comic book character - obviously loads of brilliant acting performances came before Ledger, he certainly wasn't the be all end all of acting. But a lot of the criticisms of comic book characters in film, even today, even for most Marvel characters, is that there isn't enough depth or complexity to them. I think Ledger's Joker was the first time I saw a CB character on the big screen and thought, wow, that's a character, he's not just a bad guy or a hero or fitting some kind of template with predictable actions or a boring story arc. I still haven't seen an actor in a comic-based film or show reach that level of performance.
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Good, just wanted to be clear :biggrin:
And I should have clarified. I meant unprecedented for a comic book character - obviously loads of brilliant acting performances came before Ledger, he certainly wasn't the be all end all of acting. But a lot of the criticisms of comic book characters in film, even today, even for most Marvel characters, is that there isn't enough depth or complexity to them. I think Ledger's Joker was the first time I saw a CB character on the big screen and thought, wow, that's a character, he's not just a bad guy or a hero or fitting some kind of template with predictable actions or a boring story arc. I still haven't seen an actor in a comic-based film or show reach that level of performance.
On that, we can agree.
Although I'd say Arnold in Batman (whichever one it was) surpassed Ledger. :biggrin:
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You are a madman :lol
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You are a madman :lol
Madman?!?!?! Sounds like you need to.....chillllll
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Adami, chiiiiilllllll. :lol
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As I said I am not a comic book guy, or a film based on a comic book guy, so with that grain of salt, Terence Stamp as General Zod is one of my favorite film antagonists ever. I have no idea how he compares to any other portrayal of Zod, either on film or page. And I don't care.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP0Z0Kl7Zzg&feature=youtu.be&t=13
They're not rebooting anything. They're just doing something new. They're breaking continuity and allowing a personal a film maker to make his own interpretation of the character. As far as I know, Leto is still the "main" Joker, for better worse. Mostly worse. But this is a neat look into how someone else sees the character. Don't see the problem there. It's not at all like Spider-Man, where every new version was supposed to be the new, definitive, and sole version.
So it's not a "reboot" they are just "doing something new?" There is a "Main" Joker? What does that even mean? I am not picking you Adami, this whole continuity issue and the associated mentality that some people get caught up in (again, not you) is just so confusing.
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It's not that confusing, but I'll break it down.
Starting with Man of Steel, DC has created an in-continuity universe. Similar to the MCU. It's not great, but it's meant to largely be mostly cohesive.
So any DC live action movie after Man of Steel takes place within that universe. Inside that universe, Jared Leto is the Joker. A terrible one, but whatever.
This movie is just...outside of that. So it is totally unconnected. They are not rebooting the Joker (in universe, since they are not creating a new universe of films), they are simply doing a stand-alone movie with a different vision.
Make sense?
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Yes that actually does make sense, thank you! (now please explain the current issue revolving around the Golan Heights just as succinctly... :))
I had to look up MCU, that is how out of touch I am.
I appreciate that someone is trying to create a universe with continuity, but I also am sympathetic to the point Bosk brought up. But like him, I will also accept that as my issue.
But here is a question... does DC own the rights to the Joker? If so, why are they creating multiple movies with multiple visions for a character? (revenue, I know...)
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Here's a ripple though.....
Don't think for ONE SECOND that if Joker is a major hit, that they won't start thinking about retconning Joaquin's version into the DECU and pretending like Leto's version never existed.
Money talks.
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Here's a ripple though.....
Don't think for ONE SECOND that if Joker is a major hit, that they won't start thinking about retconning Joaquin's version into the DECU and pretending like Leto's version never existed.
Money talks.
Nah.
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Here's a ripple though.....
Don't think for ONE SECOND that if Joker is a major hit, that they won't start thinking about retconning Joaquin's version into the DECU and pretending like Leto's version never existed.
Money talks.
Nah.
You watch. *IF* Joker makes more money than Venom, I'll bet money that they will at least start talking about it. Whether Joaquin will agree to it or not is another story.
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Well none of us will have any idea what they talk about. But nah.
Joker is set in the 80s. So unless they’re going for a 70 something year old Joker.
One idea I had years ago was to make Leto a joker wannabe, imitating the real joker.. I guess if they got super lame, they could do that with Joaquin’s Joker, but at no point will they just switch them out. Sorry.
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Right now continuity is out the door as they reboot the whole series kicking out Snyder.
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They're not rebooting anything. They're just doing something new. They're breaking continuity and allowing a personal a film maker to make his own interpretation of the character. . . .
They do this stuff in comics all the time. You'll get a random story about someone that is totally out of continuity and is just a writer/artist exploring a neat story that couldn't be told in the main universe.
I was going to mention this point in my earlier post, but by the time I had it written, I just didn't think this needed to be said.
Acknowledged that, yes, they DO do this kind of thing all the time in the comics. And it annoyed me in that format as well. To me, it takes away from the realism and takes away from the stakes when there really is NOT any set "canon" for any given character, and he/she can just be reinterpreted and reimagined endlessly whenever a new author comes onboard with a different vision for who and what the character should be. I liked way back when Magneto evolved over a long period of time from being just an evil supervillain, to being sympathetic, to coming over to the "good" side and running Xavier's school, to back to the dark side again, and on and on. It was one character that changed, grew, and evolved, and you could follow that. It wasn't simply different version of the character where, for that story arc, previous versions of the character didn't exist. And because of that, his story arc had stakes and gravitas. When a character is rewritten and rewritten and the audience is left guessing which parts of past story arcs "exist" in any given timeline, the stakes don't matter nearly as much, and the confusion is real, even if the intent is clearly supposed to be "don't be confused--just treat this as a brand new story about a brand new character where nothing you have read or seen before exists."
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The Joker is a standalone film. However, as I mentioned earlier, they ARE rebooting Batman next year. 2020 release, written and directed by Matt Reeves. IF the Joker film is successful, and IF the new Batman film is successful, I think the two will combine after that.
As jammindude said, money talks, and at that point, if they have a legit success on their hands, they'll scramble to maximize the profitability. The DCU is in shambles, and everyone can see it. Fanboys can say all they want, but Justice League, and the whole convoluted stuff they did was in response to the MCU having so much success. DC got on board late, and then tried playing catch up.
This Joker movie, and the new Batman movie, are their attempt to reboot and do something different. Sorta how Deadpool is set apart to a degree, although they mixed in some X-men stuff.
The Dark Knight Trilogy was a standalone because Nolan refused to taint it. My thought is, DC finally realized they blew something great with the Nolan trilogy, and are now trying to do something different so they can be a bit more original. But time will tell.
Again, its ALWAYS about money for these studios. If The Joker and The Batman are successful, the studios will do whatever they can to maximize profit. It'll be interesting to see if The Joker gets an "R" rating. I hope it does.
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As jammindude said, money talks, and at that point, if they have a legit success on their hands, they'll scramble to maximize the profitability. The DCU is in shambles, and everyone can see it. Fanboys can say all they want, but Justice League, and the whole convoluted stuff they did was in response to the MCU having so much success. DC got on board late, and then tried playing catch up.
And even coming into it late, they STILL could have had something successful if they had put out quality films. Yeah, it would still have been endlessly compared to the MCU and would still likely be largely seen as being of inferior quality in comparison. But "less quality by comparison" and "poor quality" are two different things. Unfortunately, the DCU fell into the latter category. THAT was their biggest problem. Or, at least, it is the biggest problem that was within their control.
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Well Wonder Woman did great and WW 1984 hopefully with continue this trend. Shazam is getting very good reviews so hopefully this trend continues.
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I'm really curious to see if The Joker movie will introduce re-boots of characters such as Gordon. If it does, I think that signals that it and The Batman will be connected.
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Well Wonder Woman did great and WW 1984 hopefully with continue this trend. Shazam is getting very good reviews so hopefully this trend continues.
Oh, sure. No argument about WW. I think that, in terms of being a "quality movie," I think many would say it is comparable to the middle-of-the-road MCU films and doesn't touch their best. But whatever our particular rankings might be, you will get no disagreement from me that it was a good film. But it is one out of how many in the DCU, the rest of which were NOT good? The fact that WW stands as such a stark contrast with the rest of the DCU is basically a testament to how bad the DCU in general is, which is what I'm saying.
As far as Shazam, I can't speak to how good it is, since I haven't seen it. But assuming for argument's sake that it is VERY good, in terms of boosting the OVERALL quality of the DCU as a whole, I don't think it helps because (1) correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it is part of the connected DCU, is it? Isn't it just a "standalone" film? (2) most importantly, even if it is part of the connected DCU, it's kind of "too little too late" in terms of the overall universe's reputation.
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No it's part DCU. I don't want to spoil anything for you in the credit scenes but there is a connection.
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I'm not worried about spoilers because (1) I'm not sure if or when I'm going to see it, and (2) I'm not emotionally invested in the DCU nearly enough to care about spoilers.
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I'm not worried about spoilers because (1) I'm not sure if or when I'm going to see it, and (2) I'm not emotionally invested in the DCU nearly enough to care about spoilers.
Pulled from the Wiki page. SPOILERS obviously. Put in tiny font:
Shazam and his family are hailed as heroes, and Billy embraces his foster family as his true family. The family return the Eye of Sin to the Rock of Eternity, and realize they can use the Rock as their secret lair. Billy also shows up at school as Shazam to endorse Freddy before revealing he also brought a friend: Superman.
In a mid-credits scene, an imprisoned Sivana is recruited into a partnership with the caterpillar-like creature Mister Mind. In a post-credits scene, Freddy tests whether Shazam can talk to fish, citing Aquaman, only for Shazam to dismiss the power as stupid.
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Theatrical Trailer:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7286456/videoplayer/vi1723318041?ref_=nv_sr_1_v_1
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This is going to be a great movie. I can't wait.
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I think I can wait.
I have no doubt this will be a well-made and interesting film. But I have serious reservations that it will be a great JOKER film.
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I not really sure what this will ultimately end up being, but I'll definitely go see it in the theater.
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Trailer is interesting for sure.
It seems a random psychological thriller, where the protagonist happens to be one of the most famous fictional villains ever created.
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I think it looks great. Joker movie or not.
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This will either fall flat and be a total bore or will be extremely captivating. Either way, the trailers have piqued my interest for sure, they look good.
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See this pic:
https://www.facebook.com/LenticularMX/?__tn__=%2CdkC-R&eid=ARDH1xcvcupNvqYke2jHXf5UdWFMW0WozSwB-9-Ios6f-QsLXbVUWhLj8PD_RkTlcwuVDhquVHBjsT-t&hc_ref=ARTh7rhpm_1camCm7J-xf9gkF5e8anPCdp0ClBw6gv37DDr7hsBwonNUNpVe723sWF4
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So I just watched the trailer for this movie. I love Joaquin Phoenix and he looks awesome in this.
BUT...I feel like we just got the Cliffs Notes version of the movie in the trailer, no?
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So I just watched the trailer for this movie. I love Joaquin Phoenix and he looks awesome in this.
BUT...I feel like we just got the Cliffs Notes version of the movie in the trailer, no?
I dunno. We got a general feel for the movie. But most trailers these days are the movie condensed to 2-3 minutes. Not a fan of it in general.
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So I just watched the trailer for this movie. I love Joaquin Phoenix and he looks awesome in this.
BUT...I feel like we just got the Cliffs Notes version of the movie in the trailer, no?
I dunno. We got a general feel for the movie. But most trailers these days are the movie condensed to 2-3 minutes. Not a fan of it in general.
I think it's one of the reasons why I have lost interest in watching movies as I get older. Nothing seems original, or believable. Not that a superhero movie is either, but I'm talking movies in general.
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Early reviews seem pretty positive in declaring this a game-changer.
Just curious how many of those reviewers don't like superhero movies.
Because I kind of get the impression that this is a film based on a comic character but aimed at non-comic fans.
I could be wrong.
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Hef, I remember thinking "The Dark Knight" was steeped in realism. You could see as the movie went on, the Joker's makeup was running, the green was lessening in his hair and becoming greasier. I just pictured a madman engulfed with Batman to the point of not showering, barely sleeping. I mad genius who couldn't turn his evil brain off. The psychology of why he needed Batman and why Batman wouldn't kill.
I love the realism in the movie which makes me want to see the new Joker movie in a bad way.
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Hef, I remember thinking "The Dark Knight" was steeped in realism. You could see as the movie went on, the Joker's makeup was running, the green was lessening in his hair and becoming greasier. I just pictured a madman engulfed with Batman to the point of not showering, barely sleeping. I mad genius who couldn't turn his evil brain off. The psychology of why he needed Batman and why Batman wouldn't kill.
I love the realism in the movie which makes me want to see the new Joker movie in a bad way.
I get "realistic", but you kind of alluded to it there - "why he needed Batman". That's a key element of the Joker as a character, and always has been.
A Joker movie without Batman may be a good movie, but I remain unconvinced it will be an actual Joker movie, or indeed a comic book movie at all.
We'll see.
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but I remain unconvinced it will be an actual Joker movie,
So it's a coincidence that he resembles the guy in Batman?
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Oh I get that but maybe him wanting to be needed, (his mom in the new film) may allude to why this is embedded in him.
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but I remain unconvinced it will be an actual Joker movie,
So it's a coincidence that he resembles the guy in Batman?
At this point, I think it is.
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Just watched the trailer for the first time and was wondering the same. This Joker didn't seem connected to the "Batman's" Joker. Then again, it's a limited trailer and I know nothing of the movie really.
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I pop in from my side of the fence as someone who doesn't understand the fascination with super hero movies. I've seen a handful that I thought were okay (Iron Man, the first to Spiderman movies, The Hulk movie with the orange monster, and yes, Affleck's Dare Devil). I have seen The Dark Night at least a half dozen times and I'd give it a 6.5/10.
I'm actually really intrigued by this trailer and kind of want to see it, which is something I've never said about anything in this genre.
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Its like they mixed the Scorsese movies Taxi Driver and The king of comedy together and peppered in the batman background.
What they've shown so far has me sold.
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but I remain unconvinced it will be an actual Joker movie,
So it's a coincidence that he resembles the guy in Batman?
At this point, I think it is.
Thomas Wayne, Alfred and even Bruce (i believe) are cast in the movie though and it takes place in Gotham. I think the only thing that gives it a "stand alone" feel is the fact that Joaquin Phoenix most likely won't reprise the role (that was a big reason why he didn't take the Dr Strange role, he likes the one time roles) so it kinda will be a unique thing on its own since we most likely won't get to see this Joker face off against Batman.
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Big DC guy, but the previews I've seen... I wouldn't be surprised if I never see this.
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but I remain unconvinced it will be an actual Joker movie,
So it's a coincidence that he resembles the guy in Batman?
At this point, I think it is.
Thomas Wayne, Alfred and even Bruce (i believe) are cast in the movie though and it takes place in Gotham. I think the only thing that gives it a "stand alone" feel is the fact that Joaquin Phoenix most likely won't reprise the role (that was a big reason why he didn't take the Dr Strange role, he likes the one time roles) so it kinda will be a unique thing on its own since we most likely won't get to see this Joker face off against Batman.
I am okay with standalone films to be honest. More often than not trying to force large overlapping series goes horribly wrong and most sequels aren't good. The MCU is a huge anomally in that regard, with most sequels being better and somehow using the different films to tell a coherent plot.
The DCEU has been mostly trash and I don't want any film to be connected to it, because for me it actively detracts from a film. DC finally seems to be on the right track and if that means a collection of interesting standalone films, I am all for it.
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Well, well, well.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2019/09/07/joker-wins-top-venice-international-film-festival-prize/2249198001/
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A comic book movie beat out a Polanski movie for an award. That brings a smile to my face.
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Almost time to send in the Clown. Got my ticket for Thursday. Can't wait!
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Gonna try and see it this weekend
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Got my ticket for Friday. From what I’ve read, it’s VERY bleak and dark. Comic book in name only. So I’m excited as hell.
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Just got back. Adami summed it up. Dark, bleak and immersive. Fantastic storytelling and an incredible performance by Joaquin Phoenix.
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Seen some very high praise from trusted nerd friends, I'm definitely gonna get this one in this weekend.
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Saw it as well. It was really good.
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So you guys saw it and haven't murdered anyone yet? :P
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So you guys saw it and haven't murdered anyone yet? :P
Well I’m seeing it later today, so you never know!
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So you guys saw it and haven't murdered anyone yet? :P
Well I’m seeing it later today, so you never know!
With your mind I predict.
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So you guys saw it and haven't murdered anyone yet? :P
I really don't get the deal with all that. It was less violent than a lot of movies out there.
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It's really great. Phoenix should hopefully be in the running for an academy award for this.
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Can anyone tell me how big of a role does Marc Maron have in this? I've seen him in the credits and would like to see him, being a huge fan of his podcast and comedy. I know it's a bit odd question to ask about a movie that features Robert De Niro and Joaquin Phoenix, though. :lol
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Can anyone tell me how big of a role does Marc Maron have in this? I've seen him in the credits and would like to see him, being a huge fan of his podcast and comedy. I know it's a bit odd question to ask about a movie that features Robert De Niro and Joaquin Phoenix, though. :lol
Very, very small role.
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Saw it last night, really loved it. Joaquin is just insanely good. Like...REALLY good.
Honestly, it would take me too long to type out all of the things I loved about this movie, so I'll probably touch on them as responses to others.
That said, literally two scenes I didn't want, or one if it went differently.
Spoiler's in small font...
The very quick flash back scene to show he was never really in a relationship with Domino. Her line to him right before was the perfect reveal. Flashbacks' were totally unnecessary and felt like they didn't trust the audience to figure it out. Luckily it's VERY short.
The Waynes murder scene. Didn't like it. I would have preferred one of two other options for that.
1) Don't show it at all
2) Kill Bruce too. That would have gotten a HUGE reaction.
Beyond that, movie is amazing. There was extra security there and after the movie, in the bathroom, I heard someone whistling the "send in the clowns" thing and I was like "Oh god...this is how it's going to happen, in a god damn bathroom"
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Lots of media reports that viewers are walking out of the film, saying it is "too violent" and "promotes gun culture." More interestingly to me, and casually directed at Adami, is that it "...deals with mental health issues in a 'triggering' way..." Thoughts?
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Lots of media reports that viewers are walking out of the film, saying it is "too violent" and "promotes gun culture." More interestingly to me, and casually directed at Adami, is that it "...deals with mental health issues in a 'triggering' way..." Thoughts?
Eh, no.
The violence isn't excessive, it's just very very impactful. Like, when Deadpool kills 20 people, it's like a cartoon. There's no emotional impact, nor are they trying to make one. When Joker kills someone, it's brutal, it's raw, and it hits you on a level that most other movie deaths don't. So it's not too violent, it's just violent in an impactful and disturbing way, because of how casual it all is, not how gory or whatever it is. A guy's head exploding is gory but we can brush it off. Some of the stuff in this movie isn't easy to just brush off. Trying not to go into spoilers here.
And gun culture, ummmmm I dunno. Not even sure what gun culture is. Are there guns? Sure. But again, do I see anything that relates to what I normally see as gun culture? No.
And it does deal with mental illness. It deals with it in a pretty cool way actually. Joker has some mental illness stuff that makes him very sympathetic, but he's also got some real mental illness stuff that rarely gets shown in movies and makes him not at all sympathetic. It shows how mental illness is treated, which is also pretty accurate if not a bit grim. It should be starting some really good conversations. Instead it's just about the typical gun control liberals/conservatives nonsense.
There's some great things in this movie that can be discussed regarding our culture, but they won't be. We'll just discuss if this movie promotes violence and how people who think it does are idiots. Pretty sad.
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Adami, thank you for the spoiler-free analysis. I should have said these articles are just quoting tweets from random people whose thoughts aren't worth a hill of beans, or at least not worth more than anyone else, despite what they might think.
Also, I have read others write about the non-cartoony way the violence is portrayed, and how this could (but won't) lead to productive conversations, as you mentioned.
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I didn't think it was too violent. I mean it's a movie about how the Joker becomes who he is and I think the violent is appropriate and what you would expect from that story. Then again, almost all complains about the movie being too violent that I have heard is from America which (not to get political) strikes me as a bit funny seeing as anyone can get a weapon at the gas station. But the movies are the problem. :p
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Saw the movie last night and it was truly amazing, not seeing any trailers and avoiding all the talk around it, I wasn't aware of anything about the movie other than it was a stand-alone movie and that Joaquin Phoenix was in it. I didn't even know DeNiro was in the movie.
Phoenix was phenomenal and the script and story were super tight, I loved almost everything about the movie. I agree with Adami's quips he wrote in small font. Those two things didn't need to be in there but I sorta get why they put it in the movie. It didn't detract from the movie in any way but if you had to pick an issue with it that probably would be it.
With all the outcry regarding the violence in the movie, I was expecting a bloodbath, have people not seen the John Wick movies? The violence in Joker was completely in line with the context of the character and heck you knew it was coming anytime it did happen. I guess it was still jarring when the violence does occur.
There was extra security in our theater and every other theater I hear, that didn't stop all the jackasses in my theater from cackling at random times.
I really like this ultra realistic take of these comic book characters with mental health and societal issues. I'm sure not everyone is going to be pleased by it but after countless takes of action packed big budget movies and grandiose VFX shots, this claustrophobic intimate and personal take was truly refreshing. I am really hoping the new Batman movie is along the same lines.
Logan started down this path and Joker gave it a solid push and hopefully more follow.
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Just got back, absolutely fantastic flick. Pheonix in unbelievable in the role, and it had me thinking that all the good performances of that character, seems that the character itself is such an inspiration to actors. (Hammill, Ledger, Nicholson, Pheonix)
I would say the biggest effect it had on me was not just how dark it was, but how uncomfortable I felt through most of the movie. How the self conciousness of the character brought out my own insecurities. I think that's about as high of praise an actor can get tbh.
Spoilerish stuff....
Powerfully impactful on the mental health front, especially with the shutdown of the clinic and how losing his access to the meds played into his downward spiral, and how said mental health is viewed in all the wrong lights. They did a fantastic job of handling it. I didn't have an issue with them knocking off the Wayne's, and agree that the flashback with Domino was unnecessary. It's unfortunate that it will be a one off, cause they really handled it so, so well, but with how old Bruce is, Joker would be 60 by the time he was old enough to be Batman.
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It's 2019 and everything now has to be viewed though a prism of left vs right politics, which personally I find rather tedious. I really liked this film a lot, I also really enjoyed Captain Marvel earlier in the year - so yeah basically view/judge a film as a piece of entertainment or art that it is.
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Just saw it. Hot damn, what movie. Definitely my favorite movie of the year and one of the best movies I've seen in a long time.
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Saw this last night. Pretty riveting performance by Phoenix. The angle they took with detailing and telling the mental illness side of that character was really well done. I don't see how Phoenix isn't the front runner for the Oscar with that performance. It was something to see.
I've seen the comparisons to Ledger's Joker and some saying this was 'better'. And while I suppose they did play the 'same' character......I don't think it'd be fair to say the two movies or actors are really 'comparable'. Ledger's joker performance was in this blockbuster atmosphere of the 'Batman' world whereas this movie with Phoenix was stripped down to just really him and the slow deterioration of reality in his mind. I can't say which 'version' was better because unlike comparing Ledger to Nicolas.....which is in the same vein.....what this film did was just not in that realm IMO.
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I can't say which 'version' was better
Leto.
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I can't say which 'version' was better
Leto.
You're trying to start a war :lol
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I can't say which 'version' was better
Leto.
You're trying to start a war :lol
:yarr
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MP posted a glowing review on this movie too. This movie would definitely be up his alley.
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I can't say which 'version' was better
Leto.
I actually liked his performance.
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MP posted a glowing review on this movie too. This movie would definitely be up his alley.
His review is what prompted me to try and communicate that you really can’t compare Ledgers joker to Phoenix’s joker. Unlike Nicholson/Ledger.....the Phoenix Joker really isn’t in that type of genre, it wasn’t the same ‘ask’
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Just got back from watching. What a great film. Phoenix delivered a unique and memorable performance as the character, and personally, I think the most successful and interesting of the live action adaptions. This whole movie had me gripping with dread and anticipation. Definitely one of my favorites of the year.
My one complaint of the movie:
The Wayne family tie-ins felt a bit forced and unneeded. I thought the story worked just fine without having to tether it further to the extended DC universe. I get why it's there and it makes sense, but for a Joker origin film, I think I would have preferred to just keep it more insular.
Whether or not you like comic book movies, you owe it to yourself to watch it.
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I saw this movie last night. First movie I've seen in theaters since Ready Player One.
I thought it was okay. I'm not superhero/comic book person at all, but I thought it was alright. I don't understand why the media was so hysterical about it. That movie was nowhere near as dark or twisted as I thought it was going to be. I thought the ending was a little too over the top. I think it would have been better if the movie ended with Joker getting dragged out of the cop car (still unconscious) by the masked men that saved him. Him standing on the car, surrounded by a cheering crowd just seemed kind of, I don't know, dumb I guess. But that's just me.
This movie really made we want a cigarette.
I was arguing with myself throughout the entire film whether the lead character was Elias from Clerks II or Commodus from Gladiator. It became clear to me when he was smothering his mother to death, as we saw him do the same thing to his father in Gladiator. Anyway, speaking of that guy, I thought he did the role really well. I'd actually really like to see him play a mentally handicapped character that wasn't hell bent on creating chaos. I thought he nailed it.
I also remembered why I hate going to theaters. The last 20-25 minutes had me sitting in agony because I had to piss so bad my back teeth were floating, and of course there was a group of frat boys in back of the theater that thought it was appropriate to talk at a normal volume throughout the movie and laugh uncontrollably at scenes that were not intended to be funny.
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You're gettin old Bri. For a few years now, I've had to plan my liquid intake leading up to a movie's start time - especially for the ones that are 2.5hrs or longer. I typically head to the head during opening commercials - whether I feel the need or not. Gotta make sure I start a flick with an empty tank.
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I saw it friday and loved it. Not sure how a potential Bat flick would work in this style, but as a one off this was amazing. The slow escalation throughout the film to him become the joker in the end is masterfully done. And Phoenix really is an amazing actor, I am not really familiar with his work to be honest.
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I just wanted to give a shout out to their set design and how good a job they did recreating that late 70's, early 80's period feel to the setting.
Think I might have to go give Taxi Driver a rewatch.
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check out SNL's parody.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqpak5lFxvs
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
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Can anyone tell me how big of a role does Marc Maron have in this? I've seen him in the credits and would like to see him, being a huge fan of his podcast and comedy. I know it's a bit odd question to ask about a movie that features Robert De Niro and Joaquin Phoenix, though. :lol
Very, very small role.
You're right, that was a very, VERY small role. :lol
Still, I dug the movie because of it's psychological aspects, darkness and ties to the world of comedy. It was very moving.
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I just wanted to give a shout out to their set design and how good a job they did recreating that late 70's, early 80's period feel to the setting.
Think I might have to go give Taxi Driver a rewatch.
Never saw Taxi Driver, is the Joker similar to that film?
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I just wanted to give a shout out to their set design and how good a job they did recreating that late 70's, early 80's period feel to the setting.
Think I might have to go give Taxi Driver a rewatch.
Never saw Taxi Driver, is the Joker similar to that film?
I would say so. I kept thinking about Taxi driver as I watched joker. And I think its worth a watch if you liked Joker.
Here's a trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujiHDeqnHY
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I just wanted to give a shout out to their set design and how good a job they did recreating that late 70's, early 80's period feel to the setting.
Think I might have to go give Taxi Driver a rewatch.
Never saw Taxi Driver, is the Joker similar to that film?
I would say so. I kept thinking about Taxi driver as I watched joker. And I think its worth a watch if you liked Joker.
Here's a trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujiHDeqnHY
All the comments on that trailer are about the Joker :lol
Okay, I will check it out one of these days, it is a classic I have heard being mentioned for many years now, but it is one of those films that never appealed to me to go and watch it. But Sorcese and De Niro are always a good sign.
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I watched Tax Driver and a bunch of other Scorsese films for the first time this year. Taxi Driver holds up. It is awesome.
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Bump from Gotham City, since I've seen the movie.
I thought it was fantastic. Quite heavy on the subject matter, and slow at times, not sure it's gonna be one of those movies one's gonna watch multiple times, but it was great and heavy hitting.
Very stilish, obviousl saturated and color corrected to death, but it was a gripping and dramatic journey into the descent into total and violent insanity of an already troubled man. I thinkl the mashup of genres was done quite nicely - heck, you could re-do it as a stand alone movie about a random mentally ill person, removing all the Joker / DC references, and you would need to change only 10% of the film.
It had a gripping atmosphere, the cinematography was stellar with many nice shots (the stairs, the subway shots also...), and I don't think the Wayne mentions were overdone. I didn't even realize the butler was Alfred himself at the gate scene where Arthur talks with little Bruce, I thought he was a random servant. The ending was fantastic, that's basically when the movie became essentially "Joker begins".
I personally would have ended it there - the Joker rises on the same night Bruce gets his parent killed and starts his path to be Batman. I didn't care for the little coda in the asylum, it would have been perfect to end it in the streets.
By the time Bruce becomes a grown man (and Batman along the way), this Joker would be old... but for all we know someone else could take inspiration from Arthur and become the "next" Joker. And it's not like this movie has to have a sequel anyway.... it works damn fine on his own.
I'm a bit puzzled at all the strong reactions and fears it would inspire violence.... I thought the movie struck a nice balance between letting you symphatize with Arthur (it was brutal to see him being told "society doesn't give a shit about people like you" from her psychiatrist) and showing that yes, he's a crazy and deranged violent guy, who totally deserves to be locked up in Arkham. If people see this movie and feel the need to down clown mask and start riots the problem is with them, not with the movie.
Oh, and Joaquin Phoenix totally deserves any award there can be for his performance!
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Watched this over the weekend and it was a really good film. I like the fact that the viewer really has no clue what happened really happened or if was just his imagination.
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Watched this over the weekend and it was a really good film. I like the fact that the viewer really has no clue what happened really happened or if was just his imagination.
That's the beauty of the Joker character. The film was expertly written, acted, and directed. And it balances that line where it could be just a one-off (as has been the prevailing message from those involved with the film), or (as has been hinted) it could be a pathway to the Batman universe we all know.
Honestly, I think Robert Pattison's portrayal of the Caped Crusader, and the tone of that film will determine if Joker ends up crossing with Batman. If the new Batman film is done in a similar manner, I can see it. If it's so stylistically its own thing, then I doubt it would work.
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HUGE Batman fan (there's a running joke in my family that I'm Batman; as such, I have more Batman ephemera than all else combined, even Kiss and Star Wars), and I can't imagine looking forward to Robert Pattinson as Batman any LESS than I am now.
I loved Ben Affleck as Batman, I really liked Christian Bale... I'm just not looking forward to this. I feel like it's going to over-emphasize the brooding and miss some of the more interesting parts of the character that Ben, in particular, really got. It might have something to do with the apprehension of where the entire DCCU is heading; I thought Henry Cavill was perfect in every way as Superman, and they apparently didn't, so there's that.
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I remember saying the same thing about Heath Ledger on playing the Joker. Boy was I wrong. I hope Pattinson surprises me as well.
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Watched this over the weekend and it was a really good film. I like the fact that the viewer really has no clue what happened really happened or if was just his imagination.
Well, the only certain answer is that he completely imagined his relationship with the neighbour. Other things.... well, if you analyze the movie under the "he's an unreliable narrator" thing you can potentially have doubts for everything. The gun, for example - did he really got it from the coworker that denied having done so, or the facts presented in the phone call where he got fired were the real ones? did he imagine his liberation at the end, since in the next scene he's commited in an asylum anyway? heck, did he imagine the WHOLE movie while being committed, hence the "you wouldn't get it" comment?
Anyway, I like as I said how it can work both as a Joker movie and a standalone movie. Really, don't call it Gotham but call it New York (which is what it is anyway, and they don't even try to hide it), replace Thomas Wayne with Random Rich Tycoon, and change a bit the clown makeup and clothes, and you have basically a movie that has nothing to do with DC. Everything else works the same even if you don't think of him as the Joker (and if this would have been the case, you can be sure someone on the internet would have said "This movie works even better if you pretend the protagonist ends up being the Joker").
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11 Oscar nominations:
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/oscar-nominations-full-list-joker-the-irishman-once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood-1917-today-2020-01-13/
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That's awesome. It definitely deserves it.
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Joaquin Phoenix: "When you give me the Oscar for Best Actor, can you introduce me as Joker?"
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While Joker wasn't quite my absolute favorite film of 2019 (that title goes to Robert Eggers' The Lighthouse for me), I loved seeing it in theaters twice and it absolutely deserves all of those nominations. One of the best comic films ever IMO.
It's going to be interesting to see how Matt Reeves' take on Batman and the rest of the inhabitants of Gotham City differs from Todd Phillips' here in Joker, because from what I gather, Reeves' film is going to be set in an entirely different world from all the other DC films that have come out so far. Really looking forward to that film, as Reeves crushed it with his Planet of the Apes films a few years back and Robert Pattinson's grown up to be one of the finest actors working today. And while I doubt we'll ever see it actually happen, I have to think that Warner Bros are going to try their damnedest to see if Reeves can convince Joaquin Phoenix to play Joker again in his new world in a future film.
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Joaquin Phoenix: "When you give me the Oscar for Best Actor, can you introduce me as Joker?"
:tup
We watched it last night. Not our type of movie from what we were led to believe, so we stayed away from it.
All we can say is 'Wow!'.......from the absolutely perfect soundtrack, acting, script........ and that stairway dance!
Two snaps and a clap.
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While Joker wasn't quite my absolute favorite film of 2019 (that title goes to Robert Eggers' The Lighthouse for me)
:tup
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'Joker 2' releases October 4, 2024 🃏