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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: KevShmev on March 25, 2019, 08:21:40 PM
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First off, Sammy talks about 5150 on its 33rd anniversary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saERetJcews
As for the first Van Halen without Roth and with Sammy, I never actually heard the whole album until years after its release, but I knew Why Can't This Be Love and Love Walks In from the radio, MTV played the video for Dreams with the Blue Angels, and later played the crap out of the live version of Best of Both Worlds from Live Without a Net.
At the time, all I knew by VH were the 1984 hits, so to me, these songs from 5150 were just new Van Halen songs with the singer who did that I Can't Drive 55 song. I didn't see it as this new band or total change that fans who had been invested with the band since 1978 did. It was just more good music. :hat
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I thought it blew Kev. The first single was Why Can't This Be Love. I couldn't believe how fucking wimpy it was. I realize 1984 led off with the Jump single, but at least there's still 6 kick ass songs on that album not named Jump, Panama, or I'll Wait.
5150 just wasn't strong enough for me Hard Rock wise. I always like the title track though, and I think I talked myself into liking Good Enough. I must say I always loved Dreams though.
Compare it to Eat 'Em And Smile, especially the tour. I saw both the DLR and 5150 tours and it was simply no contest. Van Hagar may have eventually won the war, but that first battle was DLR's all the way. I was lucky enough to see the 1984 tour, and DLR's first show was like seeing classic Van Halen. Big stage, big show. Plus having Steve Vai and Billy Sheehan was amazing.
When I even compare the two opening bands to those respective tours, I have to laugh. DLR bought out Tesla, an amazing brand new old school style hard rock band, while Van Hagar dragged out old geezers BTO. WTF??
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It was so different yet so playable. I still play this album to the day.
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It's still kinda surprising that the band pretty much avoided making videos for 5150, but then went heavy on making them for OU812 two years later. DLR definitely had the edge with the MTV crowd as he was killing it with Just a Gigolo, California Girls and Yankee Rose. But yeah, DLR fizzled out shortly after Skyscraper, while Van Hagar stayed strong into the 90's before that lineup imploded in 1996.
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i reacted by floating in the great void of eternity, as i was not yet born
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Goo goo gah gah
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I thought it blew Kev.
;) :tup
(I read that, without the comma, and of course, thought something else entirely different...)
-Marc.
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I thought it blew Kev.
;) :tup
(I read that, without the comma, and of course, thought something else entirely different...)
-Marc.
Haha, I noticed that as well, but I was nice and let it go. :lol :lol
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I discovered 5150 way after the fact. Early 90s, after For Unlawful came out (which to-date, is the absolute best VH album IMO, from any era). My first impression was it was really polished. But it had some really great songs on there. Why Can't This Be Love, Love Walks In, Best of Both Worlds, and Dreams are the go-tos for me. Four out of nine. The rest...I could leave.
VH top albums for me:
For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
Van Halen I
Balance
1984
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For me Sam, I always felt that half of For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge was filler but the other half was amazing.
5150 was very different for VH but is was such a bright, uplifting album compared to what was going on in the VH camp before it.
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I thought it blew Kev. The first single was Why Can't This Be Love. I couldn't believe how fucking wimpy it was. I realize 1984 led off with the Jump single, but at least there's still 6 kick ass songs on that album not named Jump, Panama, or I'll Wait.
5150 just wasn't strong enough for me Hard Rock wise. I always like the title track though, and I think I talked myself into liking Good Enough. I must say I always loved Dreams though.
Compare it to Eat 'Em And Smile, especially the tour. I saw both the DLR and 5150 tours and it was simply no contest. Van Hagar may have eventually won the war, but that first battle was DLR's all the way. I was lucky enough to see the 1984 tour, and DLR's first show was like seeing classic Van Halen. Big stage, big show. Plus having Steve Vai and Billy Sheehan was amazing.
When I even compare the two opening bands to those respective tours, I have to laugh. DLR bought out Tesla, an amazing brand new old school style hard rock band, while Van Hagar dragged out old geezers BTO. WTF??
This is pretty close to me as well, though I liked the ballads on 5150 better than the rockers. For me, I call the record "50-50" because that's what it is. For me:
GOOD:
Why Can't This Be Love
Dreams
Summer Nights (Best song on the record in my view)
Love Walks In
5150
NOT SO GOOD:
Good Enough
Get Up
Best of Both Worlds
Inside
I missed the VH show (though it was filmed for "Live Without A Net"; my buddy had his seats moved to accomodate one of the cameras) but saw the DLR show (it was REALLY good). For my show, Cinderella opened for DLR and they were so good live; they are now one of my favorite bands of all time.
I later saw Van Hagar on the OU812 tour; I don't remember much, though, since I brought a girl from my dorm and was concentrating on her most of the show.
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I'm a VH fanboy! When DLR left back in the day, I literally shed a tear. I picked up the 5150 vinyl on release day, and in the store, they were playing "Why Can't This Be Love"... my heart sank. When I spun the whole album I was highly disappointed. The synths, the love songs, the cheesy singer, that terrible album cover, BLAH!!! I've grown to like it over the years and let me tell ya, when OU812 came out, I REALLY appreciated 5150.
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I'm a VH fanboy! When DLR left back in the day, I literally shed a tear. I picked up the 5150 vinyl on release day, and in the store, they were playing "Why Can't This Be Love"... my heart sank. When I spun the whole album I was highly disappointed. The synths, the love songs, the cheesy singer, that terrible album cover, BLAH!!! I've grown to like it over the years and let me tell ya, when OU812 came out, I REALLY appreciated 5150.
Fun fact:
1984 and 5150 both had 3 songs that prominently featured synths.
Conclusion:
The synths were not new on 5150. :biggrin:
I missed the VH show (though it was filmed for "Live Without A Net"; my buddy had his seats moved to accomodate one of the cameras) but saw the DLR show (it was REALLY good). For my show, Cinderella opened for DLR and they were so good live; they are now one of my favorite bands of all time.
I later saw Van Hagar on the OU812 tour; I don't remember much, though, since I brought a girl from my dorm and was concentrating on her most of the show.
I knew a guy who saw VH on the 5150 tour who said it was one of the worst shows he's ever been to, largely because they spent too much dicking around in between songs. My guess is that because they only had one albums worth of Van Hagar material to play, and didn't want to play a bunch of Roth material, they had to find ways to kill time. I only saw Van Hagar twice, on the Right Here, Right Now and Balance tours, and both shows were really good. Of course, by then they had a crap load of material recorded with Sammy to play.
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Though not my cup o' tea, I will admit that Sammy is a technically great singer.
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I was never a big Van Halen fan. In my formative years, I bought VH1 and Diver Down, and I disliked most of what I heard off of 1984.
That being said, the 5150 material sounded nothing like what Van Halen had been. The songs were far less hard-edged and way more polished and "poppy." However, when it came out, I was starting to expand my tastes beyond the "if it ain't heavy (or Rush), then it sucks" mindset that I had during my last couple years in high school. I don't think I bought 5150, but I think I made a cassette copy of it from a friend's tape, and I generally liked it. Looking at the track list now, I can only remember Why Can't This Be Love, Dreams, Best of Both Worlds and Love Walks In, and I like all of those songs except Best of Both Worlds, which I didn't hate but didn't really care for.
Never got into OU812, and those two albums really felt like a completely different band than the DLR-era band.
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I knew a guy who saw VH on the 5150 tour who said it was one of the worst shows he's ever been to, largely because they spent too much dicking around in between songs. My guess is that because they only had one albums worth of Van Hagar material to play, and didn't want to play a bunch of Roth material, they had to find ways to kill time. I only saw Van Hagar twice, on the Right Here, Right Now and Balance tours, and both shows were really good. Of course, by then they had a crap load of material recorded with Sammy to play.
Yea, I mean, they opened the show with a Sammy song "There's Only One Way to Rock" which is sooo awesome on the Live Without A Net DVD. Plus they all do solo spots including Sammy. I could see how that's a turn off, I'd rather them do a couple more DLR songs. I actually enjoy Sammy singing those from the few he has sung.
I was born in 84 so can't answer the question, but I love 5150 and yea, it's a big change from 1984 so I could understand why people would bu turned off by it. Dreams is just so good though, it's always been one of my favorite VH songs.
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It was part of the soundtrack to my life in 1986, playing the cassette in the car with friends driving around. Thought it was good at the time but never listen to it now, much prefer the Roth years.
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It was part of the soundtrack to my life in 1986, playing the cassette in the car with friends driving around. Thought it was good at the time but never listen to it now, much prefer the Roth years.
That was Eat 'Em And Smile.
"Well, let's roll up on the sidewalk and take a look! Whoa!"
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:lol
I still like that album a lot too, funny to look back in retrospect. I told Billy Sheehan at Progpower when I met him that I got into him because of his work with DLR which he laughed and said something of along the lines of "people don't discover me from that anymore" but it was true, his bass line in Elephant Gun made me say to myself "wait, who is this bassist?" back when I first heard that album when I was in high school in 2002ish when I went through my 80s rock/metal phase.
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Ah, once again we see that it is impossible to talk about Van Hagar's early years without also talking about DLR's early solo material. :lol :lol
Back to 5150, while this is probably another one of those "I heard the live version first, so it is better" situations, the studio version of Best of Both Worlds sounds so limp compared to the Live Without a Net version.
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Ah, once again we see that it is impossible to talk about Van Hagar's early years without also talking about DLR's early solo material. :lol :lol
But it's part of the 5150 story.
I mean, 5150 was weak enough on it's own, but compared to eat 'Em And Smile, it was a complete joke. Here's EVH with poofy pink pants and DLR basically came back with a VH styled band, and out Van Halen'd Van Halen.
But I feel like I'm one of the few that holds OU812 in high regard. I've always felt like it was a more honest effort.
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OU812 used to be my least favorite Van Hagar album and one of my 2-3 least favorite albums from any Van Halen era, but in recent years it has become one of my favorites and is now the Van Hagar CD I listen to the most.
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Saw Sammy on a great MTV concert, and was at this show a few weeks after the Tigers won the WS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NAcsFR72wI
Encore guest, when he was cool.....Nugent.
VH was the first HUGE band that had a really major change for lead vocalist. So, it took some warming up to.
That being said, 'Good Enough' is a killer track and intro of the 'new guy'. And, when I would comparative stereo shop for car or home systems, I would take my '5150' copy along and play the first minute or so of 'Dreams' and 'Love Walks In'. I like more tracks from '0U812', but their initial effort was pretty damn good, and much more 'mature'.
(just listened to both of them two weeks ago, since the weather is getting warmer, windows are down a bit, and they are such 'feel good' releases)
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There is honestly no better summer music than Van Halen.
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Even though I got into VH late in the game (after Diver Down was released), VH-I was my first Van Halen album. I loved it. Even though there were a few songs that sounded like "filler," there were so many strong tracks. But I didn't really like more than a couple of songs on any album after that. 1984 really baffled me. I didn't dislike Jump, although I of course recognized what a huge departure it was and how it was pretty much the antithesis of what "hard rock" was supposed to be about. And I really liked the other singles at the time. But aside from those, the rest of that album was just bad, and it is not surprising to me that even now, when I go back and look at the song titles on that album, I cannot remember anything about how any of them go other than the singles. I kind of felt like Van Halen was done at that point.
And then 5150 came out. And it was perfect. Yeah, on half the songs, it went perhaps even more "pop" than VH had ever gone. But it was done so well that it didn't matter. There was not a single weak song on that entire album. It was, and still is, the strongest Van Halen album in their entire discography. Needless to say, to answer the question in the thread title, I loved it when it came out.
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There is honestly no better summer music than Van Halen.
ahhhh ahhhh hot summer nights
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Van Halen, and especially Van Hagar, is definitely great summer music. You crank up Summer Nights and it just sounds like summer. :coolio
Regarding 1984, I am sure the synths were a major WTF to many fans at the time, but there is no doubt that Jump elevated them big time, and the other major singles/videos, Panama and Hot for Teacher, rocked big time, so there was still plenty of red meat on the album for the fans who just wanted to rock. :metal
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5150 is in my top 2 VH albums along with F.U.C.K., but my appreciation of the album really grew only when I got older. I came to appreciate the more "refined" Van Halen, as opposed to the more raw-sounding rock and roll of the DLR albums.
Or maybe I just came to realize that DLR really does not know to sing so thank god for Hagar. :rollin
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I don't know; even the Sammy years, I can't say I ever put on a VH record for the great technical singing. It's almost all feel.
And, put this in the "controversial opinions" category, but I think Roth is a better singer than he gets credit for. No, he's not Freddie Mercury, but he does what he has to do.
Anyway, VH was different though. Much was made (and is still being made) about the keyboards, but a lot of that was a self-inflicted wound. Fans didn't abandon VH because "keyboards" (like they did with Priest and Maiden on Turbo and 7th Son). A lot of the controversy was between Eddie and Dave, since that was around the time Dave was positioning himself for the big move. Eddie complained about EVERYTHING; the cover songs, the keyboards, the videos... But I can't name one person that I know that was like "wow, VH turned into a bucket of p******s with all the keyboards!" Just the opposite; Hot For Teacher was classic VH with the drums and the guitars; Diver Down had "Little Guitars", which had "guitars" right in the title...
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...but I think Roth is a better singer than he gets credit for.
Absolutely.
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I don't know; even the Sammy years, I can't say I ever put on a VH record for the great technical singing. It's almost all feel.
And, put this in the "controversial opinions" category, but I think Roth is a better singer than he gets credit for. No, he's not Freddie Mercury, but he does what he has to do.
He's awful now, but he was good enough back in the day, and along the lines of what you said, who listens to VH for great singing?
The thing with Roth is, his style is like a guy at a bar rolling up on a girl and hitting on her with humor and sarcasm; it worked because he made it work. Just like no one would ever say, "Van Halen had great lyrics," but for the style and subject matter, Roth usually did a pretty good job all things considered. Sure, when compared to others, Roth is like Fast Time at Ridgemont High and Roger Waters is The Godfather :lol. but it's all about context.
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Give me Fast Times every day.
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I don't know; even the Sammy years, I can't say I ever put on a VH record for the great technical singing. It's almost all feel.
And, put this in the "controversial opinions" category, but I think Roth is a better singer than he gets credit for. No, he's not Freddie Mercury, but he does what he has to do.
He's awful now, but he was good enough back in the day, and along the lines of what you said, who listens to VH for great singing?
The thing with Roth is, his style is like a guy at a bar rolling up on a girl and hitting on her with humor and sarcasm; it worked because he made it work. Just like no one would ever say, "Van Halen had great lyrics," but for the style and subject matter, Roth usually did a pretty good job all things considered. Sure, when compared to others, Roth is like Fast Time at Ridgemont High and Roger Waters is The Godfather :lol. but it's all about context.
Goddamn; you equated The Godfather (my favorite movie) and Roger Waters (not high on my list) and yet I'm forced to agree with you. Well done!
But in the interest of the discussion - and not "arguing", because I've written this before many times - I actually think Roth's lyrics on A Different Kind Of Truth to actually BE great lyrics. I'm not arguing that "Goddamn-it-lady-you-know-I-ain't-lyin'-to- ya-I'm-a-gonna-tell-you-one-time" is great, but he had flashes of brilliance while never losing the real Van Halen plot, which is, it's all about the party.
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But I thought Sammy was Fast Times at Ridgemont High? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ATDi49Hu4M)
And I'll agree that DLR is good for what he is, which is not a top vocalist. He was a good front man, put on a good show, and sang the songs the way he did to make them work for the style they were aiming for and it did work. Being that he was never the greatest vocalist in his prime, it's no surprise he's much worse today, but he still "made things work" in the sense that while I thought he was horrible when I saw VH on their last tour, he did put on a show and did at least make up for some of that with his stage antics and still having that attitude that made VH so popular.
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Give me Fast Times every day.
Fast Times is great mindless fun, just like Van Halen.
The Godfather is deep and a great work of art, like Pink Floyd.
All are great, for what they are. :tup :tup
Goddamn; you equated The Godfather (my favorite movie) and Roger Waters (not high on my list) and yet I'm forced to agree with you. Well done!
:hat
And I'll agree that DLR is good for what he is, which is not a top vocalist. He was a good front man, put on a good show, and sang the songs the way he did to make them work for the style they were aiming for and it did work. Being that he was never the greatest vocalist in his prime, it's no surprise he's much worse today, but he still "made things work" in the sense that while I thought he was horrible when I saw VH on their last tour, he did put on a show and did at least make up for some of that with his stage antics and still having that attitude that made VH so popular.
He was in the right band as well, as no one else cared about being front and center and grabbing the fans' attention, which does happen sometimes in bands where non-frontmen members want lots of attention as well. Alex just wanted to play drums, Eddie was always a grumpy bastard who just wanted to play his guitar, and Michael Anthony always looked thrilled just to be at the party and had a good time playing.
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Liked it a lot, but I never really bought into the David Lee Roth thing, even though I own every Van Halen album up to and including 3 (Which I think is great by the way.)
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Michael Anthony always looked thrilled just to be at the party and had a good time playing.
My best friend in high school and I used to make fun of just that. "Oh boy, guys, this is GREAT!" We said the same thing about Pete Trewavas as well (if you watch the "Recital Of The Script" you kind of see that too).
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Liked it a lot, but I never really bought into the David Lee Roth thing, even though I own every Van Halen album up to and including 3 (Which I think is great by the way.)
I've also said this before but a key element of this is that Van Halen was just so much... FUN. Good, clean, FUN. Maiden was dead serious; this was before the internet so Rush wasn't the fun-loving BFFs that we know today; Kiss was fun but it was... there was that element of secrecy then, so they weren't on the same level as the rest of us; Ozzy was "fun" in a "wow, that guy is a maniac; I'm glad that's not MY friend" kind of way...
I don't know. I think that's partly why I never really got ass deep in the grunge movement and really don't like the whole Cobain thing. It wasn't FUN. It's no surprise that the only band I erally like from Seattle is the Mother Love Bone, who were a fucking goof in a lot of ways. "Dirt" is probably my least favorite AiC album, because it's just so BLEAK. Soundgarden was okay, but they only really clicked with me once I got the humor that was sort of an undercurrent in their music ("do you hear a cow? A rooster says.... here is a pig... the devil says.... RROOOOOOOAAAAARRRRRR" on "Searching With My Good Eye Closed" is epic). To this day, if you look at my top albums - Yes, Genesis, Dream Theater, Rush... only Sabbath is a really dark band. I just kind of gravitate to that positivity and that's Roth VH.
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I've also said this before but a key element of this is that Van Halen was just so much... FUN. Good, clean, FUN. Maiden was dead serious; this was before the internet so Rush wasn't the fun-loving BFFs that we know today; Kiss was fun but it was... there was that element of secrecy then, so they weren't on the same level as the rest of us; Ozzy was "fun" in a "wow, that guy is a maniac; I'm glad that's not MY friend" kind of way...
Very true. And when you say clean fun, I thought they usually did a clever job of having a lot of lyrical content that was clearly about girls and sex, but it was rarely overtly worded.
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It is half a good album but Eat em And Smile beat it hands down.
There are songs on 5150 I can’t stand, such as Good Enough, Get Up, Inside.
And Vai’s playing just sounded so cool :hat
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Michael Anthony was a very important part of Van Halen, an unsung hero that could sing. His bass playing is great for what the music called for and his backing vocals added alot, plus he had cool stage presence.
Back to subject: I like most of 5150 but it was hard for me to warm up to after the heavy hitter 1984. Sammy Hager is a great singer and his solo stuff really rocks, he was also great in Montrose. My first ever concert I attended was Monsters of Rock in 1987 with Van Halen headlining. That was after OU812 came out so they had two albums under their belt with Hagar by then. DREAMS is probably my favorite song of that era and still makes me crank up the radio to this day. :coolio
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Arch, summer of '88 actually.
That was a great show.
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Speaking of Michael Anthony, a friend who saw them on the 1984 tour said that when he did his bass solo, he smashed his bass guitar on the stage and then opened it up and pulled out another bass and started playing that one. Does anyone remember that?
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I don't remember that.
Here's his solo (and entire show) from Montreal. This is a great video BTW.
https://youtu.be/-90SPx6Xfwo?t=1887
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Arch, summer of '88 actually.
That was a great show.
Oh yeah, you are right! Summer of 88 at the Kingdome in Seattle. The line-up was Kingdom Come, Dokken, Metallica, Scorpions, Van Halen. :tup
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I saw that tour as well.
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Giants Stadium
June 26, 1988
Metallica on stage:
(https://i.imgur.com/7ErF9PU.jpg)
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5150 Tour!
August 22, 1986
Providence Civic Center
(https://i.imgur.com/9WB0nlT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XUhLInR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JbLCkqf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zllSyIv.jpg)
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awesome :metal :metal
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"So, how many lights do you need"
"All of them"
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I saw that tour as well.
Of course you did. :lol
I don't remember that.
Here's his solo (and entire show) from Montreal. This is a great video BTW.
https://youtu.be/-90SPx6Xfwo?t=1887
:tup :tup
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:lol
Kev, in Oxford, ME. Partied at my friend's cabin after. That was not a good morning. Lol
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Hangovers suck. That is one of the reasons I rarely drink booze anymore.
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It was worse than a hangover. What you do in your dumb youth.
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(https://ellacydawson.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/tumblr_lt8sklatdm1r3eh7mo1_500.gif)
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Liked it a lot, but I never really bought into the David Lee Roth thing, even though I own every Van Halen album up to and including 3 (Which I think is great by the way.)
I've also said this before but a key element of this is that Van Halen was just so much... FUN. Good, clean, FUN. Maiden was dead serious; this was before the internet so Rush wasn't the fun-loving BFFs that we know today; Kiss was fun but it was... there was that element of secrecy then, so they weren't on the same level as the rest of us; Ozzy was "fun" in a "wow, that guy is a maniac; I'm glad that's not MY friend" kind of way...
I don't know. I think that's partly why I never really got ass deep in the grunge movement and really don't like the whole Cobain thing. It wasn't FUN. It's no surprise that the only band I erally like from Seattle is the Mother Love Bone, who were a fucking goof in a lot of ways. "Dirt" is probably my least favorite AiC album, because it's just so BLEAK. Soundgarden was okay, but they only really clicked with me once I got the humor that was sort of an undercurrent in their music ("do you hear a cow? A rooster says.... here is a pig... the devil says.... RROOOOOOOAAAAARRRRRR" on "Searching With My Good Eye Closed" is epic). To this day, if you look at my top albums - Yes, Genesis, Dream Theater, Rush... only Sabbath is a really dark band. I just kind of gravitate to that positivity and that's Roth VH.
I get the FUN part. I really do. (Rush was really fun before the Internet, but most people didn't know that.) But fun for me is seeing Neal's Spock's Beard , Dread Zeppelin, (Led Zeppelin too I guess) Tempest, The Men Who Will Be Blamed For Nothing....Les Claypool bands like that.
I get the David Lee Roth thing too. Despite what I might think, the guy is no dummy (obviously) and he was the guy that mostly allowed Eddie to be Eddie. It's more of a stylistic thing with me so I went elsewhere for that.