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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on March 19, 2019, 10:52:45 AM

Title: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: WildRanger on March 19, 2019, 10:52:45 AM
Which bassist do you favor and why?



Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: The Walrus on March 19, 2019, 10:56:54 AM
I like Iron Maiden more than Dream Theater, but I like JMX a lot more than Steve Harris. JMX's few lyrical contributions to the band are some of my favorites in their catalog, and his playing is phenomenal. I'll take any of his work on Awake, for example, over pretty much anything of Harris, but Harris is pretty damn awesome himself. The bar's just that high.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Dream Team on March 19, 2019, 10:59:21 AM
Harris' work in the 80s is untouchable (plus he wrote most of the songs and lyrics). The only one I like better than Harris is Geddy.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on March 19, 2019, 11:06:27 AM
John Myung without question. He’s second only to Cliff Burton as far as my bass influences go, and I switched from four to six strings solely because of JMX’s playing.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 11:06:37 AM
I assume this poll is strictly limited to compare the two as bassists.  Harris obviously does more as the visionary behind Iron Maiden, and Myung does not play that role in DT. 

Harris is a VERY good rock/metal bassist and is an undeniable influence to an entire generation of bass players.  He is also a very good songwriter, even if he might be considered somewhat of a "one-trick pony" nowadays on that front.

Myung is a much more technical and, IMO, creative bassist.  He is in the upper echelon of bass players and can do thing Harris likely cannot.  His bass parts are often very expressive and mindblowingly awesome.  Myung by a mile in this one.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Dublagent66 on March 19, 2019, 11:10:44 AM
What Bosk said.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Stadler on March 19, 2019, 11:11:24 AM
Kind of with Bosk on this one. 

As a pure bass player?  John Myung.    Who I want in my band, or, more correctly (and Maiden fans will get this), whose band I want to be in?   Steve Harris. 

I think there's a pretty decent argument in favor of the idea that Steve Harris molded Maiden into the beast it is today out of sheer force of will. 
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: The Walrus on March 19, 2019, 11:12:20 AM
To add to what bosk said - Harris also has his own 'side' band British Lion. Something I've always wondered about is what a JMX solo album would sound like. I wonder if he's got any secret songs recorded for something like that.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 11:15:40 AM
To add to what bosk said - Harris also has his own 'side' band British Lion. Something I've always wondered about is what a JMX solo album would sound like. I wonder if he's got any secret songs recorded for something like that.

I kind of wish he did more side projects so we could hear some of what he would do.  I like Jelly Jam.  But he does not push the boundaries of his bass playing in that project and does not seem to drive the creative direction.  I'm pretty sure Ty is the driving creative force in that project.

:justjen  Hmm...methinks I actually have some cool stuff to ask JMX about if I get to talk to him Sunday night.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: The Walrus on March 19, 2019, 11:17:42 AM
Do it do it do it do it! ... Do it!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 19, 2019, 11:19:16 AM
In my Dream Band..Steve Harris is the bass player.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 11:23:18 AM
Do it do it do it do it! ... Do it!  :biggrin:

Oh, I definitely plan to.  I think it will be an interesting conversation and actually get him talking too, which can be a challenge when not talking gear.  The only things that will stop me would be if he doesn't come out after the show, or if I get too busy talking to one of the others and miss talking to him. 

In my Dream Band..Steve Harris is the bass player.

Yeah, I can definitely see that line of thinking and don't really disagree.  I guess if I were starting a dream band, the only caveat I would have for me personally, is that he does NOT get a say in the final mix/mastering of any albums we might put out.  :lol
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 19, 2019, 11:25:43 AM
What's weird, and this affects both bands in this discussion, is that world class musicians can listen to their own albums and think "Gee this sounds great", yet the fans are like "WTF??".
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 19, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
John Myung probably can play circles around Steve Harris. But Steve Harris has his own unique style and sound that makes him one of the few bass players that are recognizable by just a few notes. John Myung certainly also has his own style but it isn't as distinguishable.

Stve Harris for me.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TheGreatPretender on March 19, 2019, 11:49:28 AM
As a bassist? John Myung easily (which gets my vote in the poll).

But Steve Harris is a songwriter and band leader, so he's probably more integral to his band and their overall sound.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Architeuthis on March 19, 2019, 12:03:51 PM
Job Myung is more of an accomplished bass player, but Steve Harris is such a good song writer and has the best stage presence in Iron Maiden.  They are both great but I choose Myung, because he slays the bass.
 It would've been a harder choice if Geddy was on the list instead.  One of my other favorite bass players is Mike Lepond..  :metal
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 19, 2019, 12:04:38 PM
Are we sure this isn’t another MM vs MP thread?
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: MirrorMask on March 19, 2019, 12:34:12 PM
Count me in the "John Myung as a bass player is obviously better, but Steve Harris is Steve fucking Harris for reasons so obvious that don't need to be explained" camp  :hat
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Mladen on March 19, 2019, 12:37:46 PM
Count me in the "John Myung as a bass player is obviously better, but Steve Harris is Steve fucking Harris for reasons so obvious that don't need to be explained" camp  :hat
I was also wondering how to put it. This sums it up well.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: pg1067 on March 19, 2019, 12:56:41 PM
I'm surprised this is as close as it is.

When I started learning bass, it was Geddy Lee and Steve Harris.  Steve was all about the right hand and playing fast rhythms.  Geddy never played anything as fast as, e.g., Run to the Hills, but he was all over the fretboard.  He remains my favorite bass player of all time.

When JM came along, he put it all together in one package.  As much as I love Steve's playing, he's somewhat one-dimensional, and JM is the superior player in every way.  Of course, Harris brings things to the table that JM doesn't -- e.g., songwriting and production.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Stadler on March 19, 2019, 01:37:52 PM
I'm surprised this is as close as it is.

When I started learning bass, it was Geddy Lee and Steve Harris.  Steve was all about the right hand and playing fast rhythms.  Geddy never played anything as fast as, e.g., Run to the Hills, but he was all over the fretboard.  He remains my favorite bass player of all time.

When JM came along, he put it all together in one package.  As much as I love Steve's playing, he's somewhat one-dimensional, and JM is the superior player in every way.  Of course, Harris brings things to the table that JM doesn't -- e.g., songwriting and production.

This probably belongs in the "controversial" thread, but while I have zero doubt that there are more things that Steve Harris (or Geddy Lee) CAN'T play than there are things that John Myung can't play, but music is about communication, and there's something to be said about the fact that there are probably three or four bass lines by both Geddy and Steve that laymen hum or sing, and I'm not sure I can name one from JMX.  That's not a slight by any means (it's also a function of the bands and the type of music each plays), but it's a variable, at least for me.   I'll often find myself humming that bass part in the bridge-ish section of Number Of The Beast. 
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 01:46:10 PM
I've never done that with a Geddy or 'Arry base line, but have done that with plenty of Myung bass lines.  I get what you are saying--it's very similar to what I heard once heard Ritchie Sambora say about his approach to guitar solos.  The "best" (in his words) solos are ones that the audience remembers and can sing or hum along to.  That is less true in general of a bass line, since the bass is not generally meant to be a lead or compositional instrument.  But there are plenty of memorable, identifiable bass lines out there that truly "make" a song (Under Pressure, Another One Bites the Dust, ...). 

That said, I don't thing either Maiden or Dream Theater have any (or at least, many) bass lines that are that iconic.  But they do have plenty that are still "hummable" or singable.  How many either of us can recall I think just depends on the level of fandom for a particular band.  DT has plenty.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: cramx3 on March 19, 2019, 01:48:30 PM
I think Myung is the better bassist technically and Myung is a pretty good song writer too, but Harris is the better overall musician, he's integral to IM"s song writing and his bass is a huge part of the IM sound plus his leadership and stage presence.  I voted Harris.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 19, 2019, 02:10:06 PM
The one thing I can say about Steve that I'd with John did more is write songs.  Every time I hear a John Myung song or lyrics, it's so well done.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: El Barto on March 19, 2019, 02:10:55 PM
Interestingly, JMX has expressed an opinion that people are citing here. Leads me to think that if he were somebody else he'd probably vote for Arry.

Quote from: John Myung
I was really into bands; I wasn’t necessarily focused on the bass players. I think the most important thing that brought me into music was listening to those bands and just kind of identifying with them, with their sounds and stylistically. I just thought it was the coolest thing ever! So it was really just whoever was playing bass in the band that became my focus. I used to love it. I couldn’t wait to come home from school and play along with Black Sabbath records, Who records, Iron Maiden records, Rush records. It just became a thing to do.

He's inspired by Harris, Lee, Geezer, and the Fish because they were in Maiden, Rush, Sabbath, and Yes. I think those connect with people in a much broader way than DT. Moreover, I'm not sure how many of his bass lines are actually "fun" to play, rather than, say, grueling and arduous.  :lol

I'm going with JMX because he's definitely the more gifted player. However, it's easier to tell that because Arry is something of a one trick pony. The times I hear JMX stretch out are few and far far between, but they do happen. As others have said, I'd love for him to do a project where he can really spread his wings.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: The Walrus on March 19, 2019, 02:17:23 PM
To be honest I can't think of any bass lines from Maiden off the top of my head, but for Myung, Panic Attack is always the one that comes to mind. The beginning of In The Presence of Enemies Part 2 often gets stuck in my head even though it's just a low/high octave note. Lifting Shadows, too, and Take The Time.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 02:27:57 PM
The beginning of Scarred too.  And the beginning of The Glass Prison.  Those aren't fast, but are incredibly distinctive and emotive, and are pretty outside the box.  Same with the bass harmonics line at the beginning of As I Am, for that matter.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: cramx3 on March 19, 2019, 02:33:00 PM
How about S2N?
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: The Walrus on March 19, 2019, 02:38:49 PM
Oh man, TGP and S2N are great calls. I think S2N is gonna be one of those songs that ages nicely. But yeah, great bass part in that.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 19, 2019, 03:03:27 PM
I think Steve Harris is much more integral to the sound of Maiden than JM is to the sound of DT. A lot of Maiden songs are based on bass lines, doubled by the guitars, while a lot of DT songs are based on guitar riffs doubled by the bass. This doesn't make one better than the other, but I think it shows the difference in their respective roles as band musicians.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 03:06:11 PM
I would mostly agree with that.  I think DT has songs that do that as well.  But whereas with Maiden, I think what you said is probably true of an overwhelming majority of songs, whereas in DT, it would be a minority.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 19, 2019, 03:14:43 PM
If I had never SEEN JM perform, I would have no idea, honestly. I think DT's mixes have more or less hidden him big time. His bass really doesn't stand out. I mean, to cite the beginning of As I Am is case in point. It shows how little his stand alone moments are.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: cramx3 on March 19, 2019, 03:19:45 PM
If I had never SEEN JM perform, I would have no idea, honestly. I think DT's mixes have more or less hidden him big time. His bass really doesn't stand out. I mean, to cite the beginning of As I Am is case in point. It shows how little his stand alone moments are.

I'd almost say the opposite, seeing him live doesn't bring out his bass and his playing.  Sure it's great and all, but you'll have to focus on him to notice.  He does nothing to bring the attention to himself and I think that's probably the biggest reason why he isn't as known of a bassist as he could be.  I think his lack of stage presence is his biggest negative.  You can listen to an IM album or go to an IM concert and you'll know exactly who Steve Harris is because he is so in your face.  It doesn't make him a better player, but I do think it makes him a better entertainer.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 03:20:37 PM
I mean, to cite the beginning of As I Am is case in point. It shows how little his stand alone moments are.

???  I don't understand what you mean.  That is a HUGE standalone moment.  And there were plenty of others cited as well.  What do you mean?
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 19, 2019, 03:22:31 PM
I mean, to cite the beginning of As I Am is case in point. It shows how little his stand alone moments are.

???  I don't understand what you mean.  That is a HUGE standalone moment.  And there were plenty of others cited as well.  What do you mean?

What I mean is that I just don't find it all that impressive. Maybe it technically is. Stand alone..sure. Stand out? No, not really. Not to me. Plus it's the signal that one of their most boring songs is about to start.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: wolfking on March 19, 2019, 03:24:39 PM
Which bassist do you favor and why?

Steve Harris.  Because it's Steve Harris.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 03:28:05 PM
I mean, to cite the beginning of As I Am is case in point. It shows how little his stand alone moments are.

???  I don't understand what you mean.  That is a HUGE standalone moment.  And there were plenty of others cited as well.  What do you mean?

What I mean is that I just don't find it all that impressive. Maybe it technically is. Stand alone..sure. Stand out? No, not really. Not to me. Plus it's the signal that one of their most boring songs is about to start.

So...it isn't a "stand-out" section because you don't like the song?  ???
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 19, 2019, 03:31:37 PM
No. It isn't a stand out section.





And I don't like the song.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 03:36:24 PM
Okay.  I understand point #2.  I don't understand point #1.  :dunno:
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 19, 2019, 03:46:07 PM
Well, I'm just saying that it's a stand "alone" part, which is different to me than a stand "out" part.


Dave Holland has a stand "alone" intro to Living After Midnight. Scott Travis has a stand "out" intro to Painkiller. Does that make sense?
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 03:50:08 PM
Not really, no.  I don't know what you mean by a "stand out" part, or how that is somehow different than a "stand-alone" part, other than the fact that you like "stand out" parts.  But beyond the fact that you just don't like it, I guess I really don't need to know what you mean.  I was merely explaining that I didn't get it, that's all.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 19, 2019, 03:57:19 PM
When have you ever heard distorted harmonics on base to start a song before?

That alone makes it stand out.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 19, 2019, 04:00:00 PM
Stand Alone....solo spot

Stand Out...AWESOME solo spot


I have never heard the beginning of As I Am, and thought, OMG that's so awesome.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 04:04:13 PM
So..."AWESOME solo spot" means a solo spot that you subjectively like, then, right?  :lol
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 19, 2019, 04:05:53 PM
It's awesome man.   Dirty, gritty, my loins got tingly awesome.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 19, 2019, 04:07:59 PM
So..."AWESOME solo spot" means a solo spot that you subjectively like, then, right?  :lol

 :facepalm:


It's not that I don't like it. It just doesn't strike me as all that impressive. That's all.

It's a ME problem apparently. :lol
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 04:10:26 PM
I don't see it as a "problem" at all.  I'm just trying to understand your lingo is all.  Apparently, I just don't speak TACinese all that well.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 19, 2019, 04:12:52 PM
So..."AWESOME solo spot" means a solo spot that you subjectively like, then, right?  :lol

 :facepalm:


It's not that I don't like it. It just doesn't strike me as all that impressive. That's all.

It's a ME problem apparently. :lol


Not the first time we've thought that Tim. :lol
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 19, 2019, 04:17:33 PM
:natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman: :natalieportman:
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2019, 04:18:46 PM
You leave Natalie Portman out of this.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 19, 2019, 04:19:48 PM
Were both Lebanese.  Tim you knew that right? :lol
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 19, 2019, 04:20:50 PM
Well she's Israeli but close. Lol
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: pg1067 on March 19, 2019, 04:41:34 PM
there's something to be said about the fact that there are probably three or four bass lines by both Geddy and Steve that laymen hum or sing, and I'm not sure I can name one from JMX.  That's not a slight by any means (it's also a function of the bands and the type of music each plays), but it's a variable, at least for me.   I'll often find myself humming that bass part in the bridge-ish section of Number Of The Beast.

When I think of Harris, I think of the gallop rhythm that's probably most notable in songs like Run to the Hills and Trooper, but I wouldn't call either particularly memorable.  Harris's memorable stuff shows up in songs like Phantom of the Opera (the triplet section in the middle of the song's instrumental), Wrathchild (intro), RttH (the part high on the neck after the guitar solos), To Tame a Land (the 3/4 part around 4:08), etc.  For the most part, one song per album.

For me, Lee has innumerable memorable lines, and I think that's mostly due to Rush's style and the fact that the bass is virtually a co-lead instrument with the guitar.

For Myung, it's somewhere in between the two (definitely more than one song per album, but not nearly as ubiquitous as Lee):  Ytse Jam (the main riff that's obviously done with the guitar and keys and the solo), Metropolis (solo), Learning to Live (the riff under the first verse and the "Wait for Sleep" section right before the guitar and key solos), the intros to Voices, Lifting Shadows and Scarred on Awake, the intro to New Millennium (although that's done on the Stick), Home and TDOE, the intros to The Glass Prison, As I Am and Panic Attack, etc.

I don't know if any or all of those are necessarily hummable, but I can assure you that pretty much all of them are fun to play.


If I had never SEEN JM perform, I would have no idea, honestly. I think DT's mixes have more or less hidden him big time. His bass really doesn't stand out. I mean, to cite the beginning of As I Am is case in point. It shows how little his stand alone moments are.

Without getting into "stand along" versus "stand out" (and I can think of lots of both), I mostly agree with this, and it goes back to day 1 for me.  When I saw DT for the first time (Nov. 1992), I was amazed when I saw all the things that JM was doing that I hadn't heard on I&W.  To this day, one of the most enjoyable parts of any DT show is watching to see what crazy things JM is doing that I didn't catch from listening to the latest album.

And yes, JM gets buried big time.  That's a product of a couple things (IMO).  First, in both live situations and in the studio, he uses a fair amount of distortion.  Second, many/most of the songs on the last few albums (not including TA) feature very low-end riffing (i.e., lots of stuff that is mostly or exclusively played on the low B string).


When have you ever heard distorted harmonics on base to start a song before?

That alone makes it stand out.

Not that more than maybe a dozen people ever heard it, but I did exactly that on a song written back in 1990 or 91.   ;D
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 19, 2019, 04:51:54 PM
Cool. What band?
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 19, 2019, 05:21:26 PM
Were both Lebanese.  Tim you knew that right? :lol

Well, she's a Portman and you're a Port man. ;D
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 19, 2019, 05:43:00 PM
So many jokes to respond but I could be suspended.  :lol
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Stadler on March 20, 2019, 06:21:20 AM
If I had never SEEN JM perform, I would have no idea, honestly. I think DT's mixes have more or less hidden him big time. His bass really doesn't stand out. I mean, to cite the beginning of As I Am is case in point. It shows how little his stand alone moments are.

I've been thinking of a way to say this without sounding negative.  No knock on JM; he's clearly a phenomenal technician on the instrument.   I think the writing and arrangement of the songs of the two bands, though, lends itself to Steve's having more "signature" moments.   It's not a knock on JM, it's a function of what the music is offering.   
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Stadler on March 20, 2019, 06:27:03 AM
When have you ever heard distorted harmonics on base to start a song before?

That alone makes it stand out.

The Fish by the magnificent Chris Squire?

Not harmonics, but distorted bass: Die You Bastard by Motorhead (or Back At The Funny Farm off the same album, TOP NOTCH!)
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 20, 2019, 06:33:04 AM
When have you ever heard distorted harmonics on base to start a song before?

That alone makes it stand out.

The Fish by the magnificent Chris Squire?

Not harmonics, but distorted bass: Die You Bastard by Motorhead (or Back At The Funny Farm off the same album, TOP NOTCH!)

Definitely on The Fish. I forgot about that one.  Motorhead.  That's a big pass for me though I have a funny story about seeing them live.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: erwinrafael on March 20, 2019, 06:43:55 AM
In the.latest album alone, JM has several standout moments. The intro to BW. The outro psychedelia section in R137. The killer bass under the aggressive guitar solo of JP in AWE. And of course the whole S2n.

For other albums, Trial of Tears is a definite standout, especially during the solo sections. Then the singing bass in Peruvian Skies. The intro of BMS. The whole Fatal Tragedy onstrumental especially the crazy fast ending. The Medicate section of Octavarium. The verse section of BAI. The counterpoint against JR's solo in AFTR. The intro of ALLB.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Art on March 20, 2019, 06:47:45 AM
Love Myung's playing, but Harris all the way.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Stadler on March 20, 2019, 07:00:11 AM
When have you ever heard distorted harmonics on base to start a song before?

That alone makes it stand out.

The Fish by the magnificent Chris Squire?

Not harmonics, but distorted bass: Die You Bastard by Motorhead (or Back At The Funny Farm off the same album, TOP NOTCH!)

Definitely on The Fish. I forgot about that one.  Motorhead.  That's a big pass for me though I have a funny story about seeing them live.

The Motorhead was kind of a joke; I love that album, but other than Brian Robertson, I don't think I'd nominate anyone from Motorhead in a "top instrumentalist" category.  That's not their thing.   I just like how over-the-top it all is.   
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 20, 2019, 07:28:08 AM
Blonde Moment.

*over my head*
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: pg1067 on March 20, 2019, 01:01:22 PM
Cool. What band?

If this was a response to my comment that I used distorted harmonics on bass to start a song back in 90/91, I was being quite literal when I said that maybe a dozen people ever heard it.  We were a local Southern Cal band that never released anything, and I'm not sure the song in question ever got played at a live show.  Nonetheless, the band was called Horizons End, and the song was called "Sacrificial Suicide."  It wasn't the same thing that JM does on "As I Am" (which are "true" harmonics).  I fretted notes and chords with my left hand and played tapped harmonics with my right hand, using chorus and distortion effects.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: JayOctavarium on March 20, 2019, 03:33:31 PM
Myung > Harris.


You leave Natalie Portman out of this.

We are no longer friends.

Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: deslock on March 21, 2019, 06:44:30 AM
Myung is excellent and it's a shame he doesn't get more recognition, but Harris is a compositional genius whose galloping style is very original (I enjoy his strumming chords as well).

Why compare just these two bassists? Geddy Lee, Chris Squire, Les Claypool, Victor Wooten, Tony Levin, Jeff Berlin, Flea, Jaco Pastorius, Billy Sheehan... all of them are incredible too.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 21, 2019, 11:21:46 AM
Cool. What band?

If this was a response to my comment that I used distorted harmonics on bass to start a song back in 90/91, I was being quite literal when I said that maybe a dozen people ever heard it.  We were a local Southern Cal band that never released anything, and I'm not sure the song in question ever got played at a live show.  Nonetheless, the band was called Horizons End, and the song was called "Sacrificial Suicide."  It wasn't the same thing that JM does on "As I Am" (which are "true" harmonics).  I fretted notes and chords with my left hand and played tapped harmonics with my right hand, using chorus and distortion effects.

Ah, I never heard it until Myung except Squire (Thanks to Stads for jogging my memory).  I wanted to check out some music.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 21, 2019, 11:22:39 AM
Point is, it's still not exactly a commonplace technique.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 21, 2019, 11:25:00 AM
Point is, it's still not exactly a commonplace technique.

Correct!

Stylistically, Harris wins hands down.  When you hear him play you know it's him.  I like Myung's style more but Harris defiantly carved his niche better. 
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 21, 2019, 11:28:16 AM
Stylistically, Harris wins hands down.  When you hear him play you know it's him.  I like Myung's style more but Harris defiantly carved his niche better. 

Granted, I'm a relatively late fan when it comes to Maiden, but I wouldn't really agree with that.  There are some types of things that, if I heard them in isolation, I might say "Oh, that sounds like something Harris would play."  But I wouldn't necessarily say, "Oh, that sounds like Steve Harris."  I can't say he has a distinctive style.  There are just some things about his style that he tends to default to VERY often, so when one hears a bass doing those things, the mind tends to go there.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 21, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
I can.  His sound is the same from the 80's to today.  He is the master of the triplet.  A very distinct style of playing.  A few others are like that.  Geddy Lee is distinct.  So is Tony Levin.  Does that make them better than other bass players?  No but most musicians are honored to read or hear that.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: pg1067 on March 21, 2019, 12:30:03 PM
Cool. What band?

If this was a response to my comment that I used distorted harmonics on bass to start a song back in 90/91, I was being quite literal when I said that maybe a dozen people ever heard it.  We were a local Southern Cal band that never released anything, and I'm not sure the song in question ever got played at a live show.  Nonetheless, the band was called Horizons End, and the song was called "Sacrificial Suicide."  It wasn't the same thing that JM does on "As I Am" (which are "true" harmonics).  I fretted notes and chords with my left hand and played tapped harmonics with my right hand, using chorus and distortion effects.

Ah, I never heard it until Myung except Squire (Thanks to Stads for jogging my memory).  I wanted to check out some music.

I gotcha.  If I ever get around to digitizing our old stuff, maybe I'll upload it to YouTube and post a link.   ;D


Stylistically, Harris wins hands down.  When you hear him play you know it's him.  I like Myung's style more but Harris defiantly carved his niche better. 

Granted, I'm a relatively late fan when it comes to Maiden, but I wouldn't really agree with that.  There are some types of things that, if I heard them in isolation, I might say "Oh, that sounds like something Harris would play."  But I wouldn't necessarily say, "Oh, that sounds like Steve Harris."  I can't say he has a distinctive style.  There are just some things about his style that he tends to default to VERY often, so when one hears a bass doing those things, the mind tends to go there.

I think King's point cuts both ways.  I agree that Harris's playing is extremely recognizable, but I think it's mostly because (1) Maiden songs are written, recorded and mixed to make the bass stand out; and (2) he plays in the same pocket he's played in for nearly 40 years.  JM's playing, on the other hand, is way more diverse.  It's a little like comparing JP to Angus Young.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 21, 2019, 01:11:09 PM
And isn't that the battle cry for DT fans for a long time? :lol

Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Herrick on March 21, 2019, 04:26:32 PM
I guess I'd choose Myung since I listen to Dream Theater a lot more than Iron Maiden these days even though I still fucking love Iron Maiden. But then again Harris' song writing, playing & tone is more iconic, memorable, influential, & well...audible. Tough choice. I'm gonna have to go with Harris.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 21, 2019, 07:34:05 PM
  I agree that Harris's playing is extremely recognizable, but I think it's mostly because (1) Maiden songs are written, recorded and mixed to make the bass stand out; and (2) he plays in the same pocket he's played in for nearly 40 years.  JM's playing, on the other hand, is way more diverse.  It's a little like comparing JP to Angus Young.


(https://media1.giphy.com/media/TXFrQkRQysy64/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Herrick on March 21, 2019, 08:53:50 PM
  I agree that Harris's playing is extremely recognizable, but I think it's mostly because (1) Maiden songs are written, recorded and mixed to make the bass stand out; and (2) he plays in the same pocket he's played in for nearly 40 years.  JM's playing, on the other hand, is way more diverse.  It's a little like comparing JP to Angus Young.


(https://media1.giphy.com/media/TXFrQkRQysy64/giphy.gif)

I think he's making a stylistic comparison rather than a straight up technical mastery comparison.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 21, 2019, 09:00:05 PM
Tim's favorite band is Iron Maiden.  It's tongue and cheek.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Herrick on March 21, 2019, 09:02:07 PM
Tim's favorite band is Iron Maiden.  It's tongue and cheek.

Tim?
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: King Postwhore on March 21, 2019, 09:04:07 PM
That's TAC's real name.

We are homies.  :lol

We've met up at DT and Maiden shows. 
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Herrick on March 21, 2019, 09:31:21 PM
That's TAC's real name.

We are homies.  :lol

We've met up at DT and Maiden shows.

Since you've revealed his secret identity. I shall reveal mine. I am Herrick...of the Clan MacHerrick  ;D
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: pg1067 on March 22, 2019, 11:13:03 AM
  I agree that Harris's playing is extremely recognizable, but I think it's mostly because (1) Maiden songs are written, recorded and mixed to make the bass stand out; and (2) he plays in the same pocket he's played in for nearly 40 years.  JM's playing, on the other hand, is way more diverse.  It's a little like comparing JP to Angus Young.


(https://media1.giphy.com/media/TXFrQkRQysy64/giphy.gif)

I think he's making a stylistic comparison rather than a straight up technical mastery comparison.

For sure.  Steve and Angus are, stylistically, close to one-trick ponies, whereas JP and JM play with greater diversity.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: bosk1 on March 22, 2019, 11:29:26 AM
Agreed.  And that isn't a knock.  They are both very skilled players.  But they have an expected go-to bag of tricks that they go to.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Stadler on March 22, 2019, 12:03:27 PM
Agreed.  And that isn't a knock.  They are both very skilled players.  But they have an expected go-to bag of tricks that they go to.

Hmm.  Struggling to accept that, but also struggling with arguing with it. Obviously the acceptance is easier with Angus, but generally, I think I think the differences between Steve, John and John in terms of stylistic "diversity" is not as great as it's being made out to be.  The John's have some pretty strong stylistic threads running through the careers.   Compare to Steve Harris, who's first record can almost be considered a punk record, then straight ahead metal (metal that influenced the Johns, I might add) to early prog metal to I'm not sure what you'd call reunion era Maiden, because "metal" doesn't adequately describe it.

I know we disagree on this point - significantly - but I see Petrucci with just as predictable bag of tricks, even if his bag is slightly bigger.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 22, 2019, 12:44:17 PM
That's TAC's real name.

We are homies.  :lol

We've met up at DT and Maiden shows.

S'up Homie!


For sure.  Steve and Angus are, stylistically, close to one-trick ponies, whereas JP and JM play with greater diversity.

How on earth is Steve Harris a one trick pony?
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: pg1067 on March 22, 2019, 01:02:00 PM
For sure.  Steve and Angus are, stylistically, close to one-trick ponies, whereas JP and JM play with greater diversity.

How on earth is Steve Harris a one trick pony?

"I-vi-vii or I-vii-vi chord progressions with either the gallop or triplet rhythm" describes 95% of Maiden's output written by Harris.

Please keep in mind that I love Maiden.  Probably a top 5 band for me, and Harris was one of my primary influences when I learned to play bass.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 22, 2019, 01:02:17 PM
Just because Steve Harris has a distinctive style doesn't mean he's a one trick pony. He's much more than that. And regardless of who's better, Steve Harris is probably much more influential.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: TAC on March 22, 2019, 01:05:15 PM
For sure.  Steve and Angus are, stylistically, close to one-trick ponies, whereas JP and JM play with greater diversity.

How on earth is Steve Harris a one trick pony?

"I-vi-vii or I-vii-vi chord progressions with either the gallop or triplet rhythm" describes 95% of Maiden's output written by Harris.

Please keep in mind that I love Maiden.  Probably a top 5 band for me, and Harris was one of my primary influences when I learned to play bass.

Well as a bass player, maybe you can speak more to it. I don't know the first thing about chord progressions.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: max_security on March 22, 2019, 03:21:38 PM
Steve's right hand is made of IRON. No formal musical training just a poor kid who wanted to jam , I'd say he did better than the hand he was dealt I'm going with Steve Harris.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: SleeperAwake on March 25, 2019, 05:00:06 PM
Well, one is a great bass player in a great band.

And the other is the band leader and main songwriter in Iron fucking Maiden.


So... I guess 'Arry gets my vote.
Title: Re: John Myung or Steve Harris?
Post by: silentmac6 on March 28, 2019, 08:58:09 AM
I'm no musician; I just love listening to great music. Bass parts for me were always very important as the underpinning of songs. JMX has always performed this role extremely well, eg. Hell's Kitchen, but can stretch out into more demanding parts when neccessary. This is the main point. JMX has more feeling for a song, besides being more proficient. 'Arry is also a terrific player, and has moulded his style into Maiden's sound (and/or vice versa), but that also is the point. His playing is generally of a particular style. Still great, but more limited. JMX got my vote, but I love Steve's passion.