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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on March 07, 2019, 03:35:16 PM
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If you see that one man is violently beating up some girl/woman on the street, would you personally react and try to stop him?
What would you do?
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Yes.
Oh, against women? No.
Obviously yes. What would I do? How the hell would I know? It's a call made in the moment.
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The genders of the persons involved are irrelevant. Whether I'd intervene would depend on the particular facts and circumstances.
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Does this question even need to be asked? of course yes.
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The genders of the persons involved are irrelevant. Whether I'd intervene would depend on the particular facts and circumstances.
Mostly this. If I considered it a beating rather than a fight I'd certainly want to get involved. I'd do so very conscious of both people, though. Plenty of guys have tried to intervene in scenarios like described only to have the beaten woman smash them in the back of the head with a large, heavy object. Women are, um, unpredictable.
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The genders of the persons involved are irrelevant. Whether I'd intervene would depend on the particular facts and circumstances.
Mostly this. If I considered it a beating rather than a fight I'd certainly want to get involved. I'd do so very conscious of both people, though. Plenty of guys have tried to intervene in scenarios like described only to have the beaten woman smash them in the back of the head with a large, heavy object. Women are, um, unpredictable.
This. I'm not here to swing the balance in a fight, if that's what it is. I am here to help someone who got ambushed or is otherwise overmatched in a battle they never wanted to be in in the first place.
How you tell that in real time? Beats me.
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If I considered it a beating rather than a fight I'd certainly want to get involved. I'd do so very conscious of both people, though. Plenty of guys have tried to intervene in scenarios like described only to have the beaten woman smash them in the back of the head with a large, heavy object. Women are, um, unpredictable.
I agree with this. Or what if the guy is a fighter and starts pounding you in the face the second you try to help? I know everyone is supposed to be a hero and come to the rescue, but I am not about to get a broken nose or worse. Ultimately, like others have said, it depends on the situation.
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On paper, yes, regardless of the gender.
When I'm actually there? me, a shy skinny guy who never ever had a fight even at school? who knows if I could get the courage or I would be too blocked by fear.
It depends also on the actual situation, what kind of beating is going on, the place, how many people are there etc.....
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In an old apartment complex I lived in for a few years, I would do laps around it for a small workout. One evening a saw a guy punch a girl in the stomach on the street outside their building. I was SHOCKED, I couldn't believe my eyes. She was clearly in pain. I was across the street, not that close and I yelled and made him stop. I didn't cross the street, I just said something like "hey man stop thats wrong" and he threatened me but did stop. The girl said thank you and they went inside. I couldn't stop thinking after if I made things worse or if I helped out, like did they go inside and he beat her worse or did he calm down and they actually stopped?
In the end, I feel like I'd do the same thing if I had witnessed something that was flat out wrong and hurtful to someone, it's very hard to just ignore something like that.
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But what if that violent bully is some maniac who has a knife or maybe even a gun in his pocket? You can never know.
I think the best option in those cases is calling the cops.
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Cram I think you did the ideal thing- when people know they're being watched, unless they're methed out or something, they'll probably stop. I probably wouldn't jump into the middle of a fight for multiple reasons (potential weapons, I'm not super strong) but you can make your presence known, even if that means saying "hey motherfucker, I'm recording this and calling the cops." Sure that could backfire, so I'd probably say it from a distance and not if there was nobody else around. If it was a dark street at night, I would probably go somewhere safe and then call the cops so as not to get myself killed.
Also Barto, "women are unpredictable?" Come on. What about the guy who just started beating her up publicly? People are unpredictable. It's very possible a woman who's in an abusive relationship might defend the guy in this case, not because she's a woman and unpredictable, but because she's brainwashed and emotionally destroyed by the douchebag who has her convinced she needs him. This shit applies to all genders.
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The genders of the persons involved are irrelevant. Whether I'd intervene would depend on the particular facts and circumstances.
This. If I had my daughter with me, alone, I would not. I'd get us away from it. If it was with my wife and daughter, and it looked like someone was severely in trouble, I'd have my wife take her and try to end it. It's just the way I'm wired. Has happened before. It's not the smartest move, because you're never sure what someone else is capable of. But someone getting beat down, whether man or woman, is never the answer.
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Cram I think you did the ideal thing- when people know they're being watched, unless they're methed out or something, they'll probably stop. I probably wouldn't jump into the middle of a fight for multiple reasons (potential weapons, I'm not super strong) but you can make your presence known, even if that means saying "hey motherfucker, I'm recording this and calling the cops." Sure that could backfire, so I'd probably say it from a distance and not if there was nobody else around. If it was a dark street at night, I would probably go somewhere safe and then call the cops so as not to get myself killed.
Also Barto, "women are unpredictable?" Come on. What about the guy who just started beating her up publicly? People are unpredictable. It's very possible a woman who's in an abusive relationship might defend the guy in this case, not because she's a woman and unpredictable, but because she's brainwashed and emotionally destroyed by the douchebag who has her convinced she needs him. This shit applies to all genders.
Yeah, you took that far more seriously than I intended.
And personally, I think there is an argument to be made that women are less predictable, but it's not really a factor in the point I was making, as you pointed out.
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It's completely situational. If it's a dude that's built like a silver back gorilla and he's is whaling on a girl, I'm sorry, but not a chance.
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I'd definitely say something at the very least, if nothing else to draw more public attention to the situation because there's no way in hell my 100lbs ass would be able to physically do anything about it.
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I'd call 911 to report a domestic in progress, including descriptions of both parties, and then attempt to help.
It's not just women who are "unpredictable". Any domestic incident can turn into you getting the shit kicked out of you by both parties. A couple years ago, a few guys at work got involved in something like this. There was a really popular bar and restaurant here in the vicinity of our property (Large HOA on the marina, which 2 shopping centers bordering our property). We dealt with shit flowing from the bar all the time. One of my guys came across a dude who was shit faced and beating on his girlfriend. Normally we don't get involved in shit going on on the public property, but in this case my guy decided to help her out. He yelled at him, and got him to stop... and he turned towards my guy and tried to tackle him. My guy, who was a football player in high school, dropped the guy. As he was trying to subdue the dude (the cops had been called and more of my guys were going out to back him up), his girlfriend, who was just getting the shit beat out of her, started pounding on my guy. Now she was tiny, like 5'2" and couldn't have weighed more than 110lbs, and found quickly that she can't do much damage, so she grabbed his radio (big Motorola walkie talkie) off of my guy's belt and tried to throw it at his head. She missed, and it wound up in the marina. By that time, the cops were showing up and they took care of everything.
Basically what I am trying to say is people are crazy.
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I can say from experience before you get involved, you need to assess the situation. Don't just react without thinking. You could end up in a world of shit for trying to do the "right thing". Look to see if there are witnesses to corroborate your story should the police become involved.
Three years ago, just before Halloween, I had walked out of a bar after seeing my friend's band play and noticed an altercation between a guy and two girls who were trying to keep him from driving drunk. They had refused to give him his keys, and he went apeshit. He was throwing punches and eventually grabbed one by the hair to control her.
That is when I stepped in. I pulled the girls behind me and told them to stay there. The guy got in my face and started yelling "COME ON!! BE A MAN! TRY TO KICK MY ASS!!" I told him the only way it would happen is if he tried to touch me or the girls. He proceeded to talk more shit, then the cops showed up. They questioned the girls, and neither of them told the cops about what he did because they didn't want him to go to jail.
Now, if things had gotten physical with this guy, and I had injured him, the girls would have likely kept their mouths shut about what he did in this scenario, as well, which is something I didn't think about until afterward. I could have gone to jail for "doing the right thing".
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I have on a few different occassions. I once nearly beat a guy to death who had almost choked his girlfriend to death outside of a bar. She wound up with a crushed larynx, but survived. I jumped on him and pulled him off of her, and he turned on me. I beat the shit out of him, and me and two other guys held him until the police arrived and they took her, and later him, to the hospital.
I also once witnessed a domestic violence murder. One summer, about 30 years ago, I helped a friend build a massive deck in his back yard. It tooks us weeks. His neighbor (the Mrs.) was a retired teacher from my old elementary school. I had grown up with her daughter. She was estranged from her husband of 30 years. He had worked in a nearby factory that had shut down. Throughout that summer he would occassionaly show up at the house and they would argue, and then he would leave.
This particular day, he showed up and was talking to us for a bit about the deck, and the weather, and if we'd seen his wife. We had not. Later, he as moving furniture around on the patio. We realized much later he was actually barricading the back door from the outside, so she could not run out the back door. We didn't pay too much attention to him. It technically was still his house. He was there nearly everyday. None of our business. So, we just kept working.
A short while later, she had come home; and we heard him screaming from the front of the house, "Get out of the fucking car! Now!" Then heard his wife yelling back, "No, Just leave!" Get out of here, or I'm calling the police!" He screamed, "Get out now bitch!" So, we stopped what we were doing and ran around the house. We got to my friends driveway, and she was in her stopped car along the curb in front of their house. He was trying to open her car door. Before we could say anything, or think about intervening, he pulled a 9mm from the back of his wasitband, and fired three shots into the car. Their daughter had been in the car with her mother. She immediatley jumped out of the car, and ran across the street sceaming. Her father pivoted and fired two shots at her, striking her once in the back. She continued to run and went into a neighbors unlocked front door screaming. The car, still idiling, rolled up slightly onto the curb and rolled about 40 feet down the street before coming to rest against a mailbox.
After shooting his daughter, he swung the gun around and pointed it at us. We were both, young, athletic and each holding claw hammers in our hands! We were 20 feet away from him at best. He leveled the gun at us, then calmly said, "You guys don't know the Hell she's been putting me through." Then simply dropped the pistol on the ground. We both immediately ran past him and to the car. She was already dead, and slumped over on the seat. He just stood there.
There were tons of people outside. It was the summer. Lots of witnesses. I think someone called the police when they started to argue, because it seemed like mere seconds later a patrol car came around the corner of the street sideways. To this day, it was one of the best "drifts" I've ever seen. A huge cop in our town, they called "Big John", jumped out. John was about 6'8". He pulled his pistol, and screamed, "On the ground, fruit loop! NOW!". The dude dropped to the ground, John, walked around the car, and holding the gun with his right hand, picked the dude off the ground with his left, and slammed him across the hood and seconds later, he was in cuffs. Still with one hand John picked him up by his belt, and tossed him into the back of his cruiser.
His daughter survived, at least physically. The bullet struck her shoulder blade and fragments went into her thigh. But no permanent damage. He got 25 years to life. Looking back this guy was always known as being kind of creepy. He would leer at women and especially teenage girls. All of his daughters friends thought he was weird. At the local supermarket you'd occassionally see him trying to chat up a much younger female grocery clerk. He always gave off a perverted vibe.
Sometime in 2005 or 2006 his DNA was matched with an unsolved murder from back in 1974. Turns out, when his daughter and I were probaby 10 or 11, he had abducted , raped and killed a 15 year old girl who had hitched a ride one night after her boyfriends car had broken down, and he couldn't pick her up from work. He raped her, then beat her to death, and then dumped her body. He had bragged about it in prison, and someone ratted him out. The story matched the old cold case, and they later matched his DNA.
My friend and I testified at the first murder trial of his wife prior to the sentencing, as he'd confessed to the actual murder. He would have been eligible for parole I think in 2022. Not now.
But, yes. If someone was harming someone else, I'd assess the situation, call 911, and definitely get involved.
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Holy fuck
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Also Barto, "women are unpredictable?" Come on. What about the guy who just started beating her up publicly? People are unpredictable. It's very possible a woman who's in an abusive relationship might defend the guy in this case, not because she's a woman and unpredictable, but because she's brainwashed and emotionally destroyed by the douchebag who has her convinced she needs him. This shit applies to all genders.
Aggressor doesn't have to be her boyfriend or husband, it could be some random guy, maniac.
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Nuno raised an important point. Not only do you need to be mindful of how it's reported to Johnny when he shows up, but you need to consider how things will look when he jumps out of his car screaming. I wouldn't just assume he's going to act any more rationally in the heat of the moment than the guy beating up his old lady or that woman defending her abuser. I seem to recall about six months ago a security getting shot by Johnny while subduing somebody in a similar situation. Witness accounts that you were the goodguy aren't going to keep you from bleeding to death handcuffed with a knee on the back of your neck.
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Yes.
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Certainly would, and I have a bunch of times.
Sometimes the defusing went surprisingly smooth, because women-beaters are fundamentally cowards at heart and you can easily shout a coward away, especially in public. Sometimes I got bruised, but - as far as I'm concerned - it's the focking price for being a decent person. One was pretty ugly, involving my sister and her (then) husband. I went Michael, my brother went Sonny, all hell broke loose.
Sure, the average Joe doesn't usually pack heat around here, so I can't really say how I would react in other settings.
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The genders of the persons involved are irrelevant. Whether I'd intervene would depend on the particular facts and circumstances.
There are many circumstances where I would never jump in and many where I 100% would jump in.
I'm not hoping it ever happens but I'd be interested to see exactly how I would react if I came across a situation like this (or animal/child/etc abuse). We can all talk and say we'd help but would we?
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Certainly would, and I have a bunch of times.
Sometimes the defusing went surprisingly smooth, because women-beaters are fundamentally cowards at heart and you can easily shout a coward away, especially in public. Sometimes I got bruised, but - as far as I'm concerned - it's the focking price for being a decent person. One was pretty ugly, involving my sister and her (then) husband. I went Michael, my brother went Sonny, all hell broke loose.
Sure, the average Joe doesn't usually pack heat around here, so I can't really say how I would react in other settings.
I never assume a situation like this can be handled with a mere shouting contest. It's best to expect the worst because it can easily happen. There is no way to determine how a complete stranger is going to react, especially one that may be drunk or high.
There is also no way to know whether the women you're trying to protect will lie their asses off to protect their boyfriend or male friend from going to jail, which could result in you going to jail or even being sued. It's actually a very strong possibility, and I'm not having my life ruined over a woman who couldn't give a shit about my well being. I don't owe that to them.
As I mentioned in my previous post, don't just physically jump in without assessing the situation and making sure there are witnesses first. If there are none, you may want to consider another course of action.
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That's some really wise piece of advice, mate, seriously.
Alas, in those circumstances, I found myself incapacitated to assess/assume/determine and I just reacted to an instinctive impulse to interrupt a situation I was feeling abhorrent almost on a bodily level. Reading coldly, I fully agree with your analysis, right there and then, brain turned off and probably would again.
Anyways, I need to state - especially in the case of young kids reading these boards - that in no way I feel my experience represents the best way to act in such events (in fact I would point an hypotetical son to your views on the subject), it's just my experience.
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That's some really wise piece of advice, mate, seriously.
Alas, in those circumstances, I found myself incapacitated to assess/assume/determine and I just reacted to an instinctive impulse to interrupt a situation I was feeling abhorrent almost on a bodily level. Reading coldly, I fully agree with your analysis, right there and then, brain turned off and probably would again.
Anyways, I need to state - especially in the case of young kids reading these boards - that in no way I feel my experience represents the best way to act in such events (in fact I would point an hypotetical son to your views on the subject), it's just my experience.
Yeah, it's not easy to put a lid on our instincts when we see shit like that going down, but when I realized how much I could have lost three years ago in the scenario I mentioned in my initial post, I knew I had to rethink how I would approach things if it should occur again.
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How would you explain the cases where some woman attacks you (and defends her abusive partner) if you intervened when you saw her partner beating her up in public?
I've heard there are many those cases.
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No. The net result of my intervention would be 2 beaten up people instead of only 1. How's the world better off with that outcome?
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I can say from experience before you get involved, you need to assess the situation. Don't just react without thinking. You could end up in a world of shit for trying to do the "right thing". Look to see if there are witnesses to corroborate your story should the police become involved.
Three years ago, just before Halloween, I had walked out of a bar after seeing my friend's band play and noticed an altercation between a guy and two girls who were trying to keep him from driving drunk. They had refused to give him his keys, and he went apeshit. He was throwing punches and eventually grabbed one by the hair to control her.
That is when I stepped in. I pulled the girls behind me and told them to stay there. The guy got in my face and started yelling "COME ON!! BE A MAN! TRY TO KICK MY ASS!!" I told him the only way it would happen is if he tried to touch me or the girls. He proceeded to talk more shit, then the cops showed up. They questioned the girls, and neither of them told the cops about what he did because they didn't want him to go to jail.
Now, if things had gotten physical with this guy, and I had injured him, the girls would have likely kept their mouths shut about what he did in this scenario, as well, which is something I didn't think about until afterward. I could have gone to jail for "doing the right thing".
Reading this reminded me The Onion: https://youtu.be/fe3na9umxDA (https://youtu.be/fe3na9umxDA) "Average Male 4,000% Less Effective In Fights Than They Imagine" :lol
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Like Brian said, it'd be a situational decision for me. I'd certainly yell/command with the police and video tape threat like Jackie said.....but, and most of you have heard me mention, I conceal carry 99.9% of the time. I don't think that's a situation where I'd pull out my gun unless the dude was beating her with a tire iron.....but, if I were to get into a scuffle and 'introduce' that weapon into the fray....it could fall out....he could get his hands on it.....I just don't know that I'd immediately run in and try and stop him. But, I'd have to see the scenario to say for certain.
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How would you explain the cases where some woman attacks you (and defends her abusive partner) if you intervened when you saw her partner beating her up in public?
I've heard there are many those cases.
Probably the most important step is to be the first to call 911. I've heard of instances where people have had to draw their weapon, or perhaps use their weapon in self defense. They're so rattled that they take a minute to collect themselves. While they're, eh, collecting, the bad guy calls the cops and says some maniac is pointing a gun at people. Unless he's got 9 priors for 211 they're probably going to take his side. First to 911 wins.
Nine one one, what's your emergency?
Holy shit, some guys trying to kill some woman! [click]
Then you can intervene (all other factors supporting that decision, of course).
And as I said many years ago, facts supporting your claim of self defense will mean precisely jack shit if Johnny shows up and shoots you twenty seven times because you're the first violent person he sees.
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Relevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jrchHAN_tY
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How would you explain the cases where some woman attacks you (and defends her abusive partner) if you intervened when you saw her partner beating her up in public?
I've heard there are many those cases.
Holy fucking necropost, Batman!
There has never been a "case[] where [any] woman attacks [me]," so it would be impossible to explain something that has never happened.
If you're asking about a hypothetical situation in which a third party intervenes in a physical conflict between a man and a woman, it is impossible to explain a hypothetical situation. If you want to cite to some actual situation and ask "how would you explain what happened here," that could be possible.
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Relevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jrchHAN_tY
I stay very much aware of my surroundings when pumping gas, and fuel pump nozzles have a surprisingly effective range. There's a real good chance that guy's getting a face full of 93 octane. I'd just as soon stay out of that sort of thing, myself, but if I'm the guy in the truck I don't think I could live with myself after that. I mean that guy didn't even reach for his phone.
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Relevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jrchHAN_tY
I stay very much aware of my surroundings when pumping gas, and fuel pump nozzles have a surprisingly effective range. There's a real good chance that guy's getting a face full of 93 octane. I'd just as soon stay out of that sort of thing, myself, but if I'm the guy in the truck I don't think I could live with myself after that. I mean that guy didn't even reach for his phone.
We live in a weird society for this stuff though. There's no room for error. Without knowing what was said there, it's hard to judge.
Just listen to the commentary in that video.
And there's this (though the guy is an absolute DUMBASS for picking of the weapon, IMO) (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/28/john-hurley-hero-police-shooting/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F34083ec%2F60d9f67a9d2fda8060ec7f2a%2F5d979592ade4e23ecc2b103a%2F49%2F74%2F60d9f67a9d2fda8060ec7f2a).
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Yeah, generally, as a rule, I avoid situations like this because I'm closer to being a senior citizen than I am to being a badass. I ain't looking to get into any altercations. Those days are long behind me. I'm not the police, and I don't want to be the police. I'll call 911 and maybe yell or create some kind of distraction to hopefully distract or at least pause whatever beating is going on, but in my experience dudes like this who are willing to beat on their women in public places usually think they're invincible because most of them are drunk cowardly bullies and losers. They beat on their women to make themselves feel tough, but 99% of the time they're glass-jawed pussies who fold after a couple of punches. I'm just not the guy who's going to deliver those punches. I'll leave that for someone who's got something to prove. I've been in all the fist-fights I need to be in. Hard pass. Call the cops, create a distraction, yeah, probably. But that's as far as I'd go.
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And there's this (though the guy is an absolute DUMBASS for picking of the weapon, IMO) (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/28/john-hurley-hero-police-shooting/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F34083ec%2F60d9f67a9d2fda8060ec7f2a%2F5d979592ade4e23ecc2b103a%2F49%2F74%2F60d9f67a9d2fda8060ec7f2a).
As I've been saying for years, John Law is an unknown and unpredictable element. Best to avoid involvement with him at all costs. In this case the guy probably did the right thing, and this was the result. As for picking up the weapon, it probably didn't matter. He still had his pistol, and in all likelihood Johnny's shooting at any armed civilian still standing when he rolls up.
We live in a weird society for this stuff though. There's no room for error. Without knowing what was said there, it's hard to judge.
Just listen to the commentary in that video.
I'm a work so I can't listen to the commentary. My hunch is that the guy said it was his drunken girlfriend just making a scene after a spat (also known as pulling a Dahmer). Fairly believable as plenty of us have had drunken girlfriends pull crazy shit like that. Either way, I'm probably inclined to let a professional sort it out and take responsibility. I'm not ignoring that and hoping she turns out to be alright. If nothing else I'm getting a license plate and following them.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-staten-island-ferry-anti-gay-hate-crime-stabbing-20210628-pij2hg2bmvcl5jyjq45yixipim-story.html%3foutputType=amp
So trying to help a woman that was being harassed, ended up stabbed.
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I'm a work so I can't listen to the commentary. My hunch is that the guy said it was his drunken girlfriend just making a scene after a spat (also known as pulling a Dahmer). Fairly believable as plenty of us have had drunken girlfriends pull crazy shit like that. Either way, I'm probably inclined to let a professional sort it out and take responsibility. I'm not ignoring that and hoping she turns out to be alright. If nothing else I'm getting a license plate and following them.
Well, that's what I was pointing out; the commentary - the people in the video, not the comments section - were VERY judgemental towards the guy pumping his gas, but we don't know what was said. I would still get a license plate, or even call the cops, but there's a point where you have to sort of make a decision. I suppose you could argue that there's no good explanation for violence, but real life isn't that cut and dry, I don't think.
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I'm a work so I can't listen to the commentary. My hunch is that the guy said it was his drunken girlfriend just making a scene after a spat (also known as pulling a Dahmer). Fairly believable as plenty of us have had drunken girlfriends pull crazy shit like that. Either way, I'm probably inclined to let a professional sort it out and take responsibility. I'm not ignoring that and hoping she turns out to be alright. If nothing else I'm getting a license plate and following them.
Well, that's what I was pointing out; the commentary - the people in the video, not the comments section - were VERY judgemental towards the guy pumping his gas, but we don't know what was said. I would still get a license plate, or even call the cops, but there's a point where you have to sort of make a decision. I suppose you could argue that there's no good explanation for violence, but real life isn't that cut and dry, I don't think.
License plate number and a short follow does sound like a good idea... but I see that scenario perhaps devolving into the follower (me) being approached at a stop light by the "big man" that's decided to carry the screaming girl back to his car. At that point, I'm forced into some type of action without the possible aid of a security camera. Hindsight being 20/20, I don't know if I'd think that many moves in the future whilst pumping gas, but I think that the place to stop it is in the parking lot of the gas station (soak him with the gas as Barto suggested). I'm not suggesting that the truck driver go He-Man on the other guy and move the girl behind him (I'd personally refrain from touching her in that situation), but if a real threat is perceived by the truck driver, I don't think that they should drive off into the night.
Of course, you're then trying to mediate the situation in a parking lot, at night, whilst hoping that someone is calling it in. There isn't any clear path to that one that I see in my mind's eye; but I personally would want to avoid the stop light scenario unless absolutely necessary. I absolutely agree that what's going on can't be ignored.
On a golf trip to the Augusta area a few years ago, my group and I were eating in a fairly nice sushi bar after the round and celebrating a bit; a larger group of persons were sitting at the Hibachi bar in the middle of the building... looked like a large family having a nice meal. Out of nowhere, two of the men (late 20's early 30's I'd say) get up from the table and start the silly pushing back and forth stuff... the kids are starting to cry and one of the girls gets up to get between them. She gets pushed out of the way, quite roughly, and the smaller of the two guys puts the other one in a head lock and drags him through the lobby and out the door (I think this is admirable.. finish the fight in the parking lot away from everyone else). I get up and go over to the table to ask the girl and her family if they are OK and if anything can be done to help. She says that it's her new boyfriend and her ex-husband (father of the kids) and that this happens all the time. She was shaken up quite badly though, much more so than I would think for something that happens all the time... maybe it was the hard shove. The bar staff took to her and her family and I went back to my table. My brother asked me why I went to their table and what I would have done if one or both of the guys came back in... I said that I didn't think that far ahead and my purpose was to let that family know that someone cared enough to just ask if she was OK. No one in that family stood up to stop it, even after she was shoved to the ground.
My point? Be a man and finish your fight in the parking lot. :biggrin: By the way, myself and one other from my group went outside to see what was happening... the smaller guy was beating the larger guys ass in the parking lot. One of the few times I've seen a shoving match actually become a fight.
And Tempus... hero level my friend. The fact that you'll say "I wasn't being a hero I was reacting" is exactly what would make you a hero. Same with Bart, Gary, Nuno, and anyone else that would intervene on any level. We've lost the community aspect of our communities... I would guarantee you that our fathers and grandfathers would have intervened in these situations when someone needs help.
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And Tempus... hero level my friend. The fact that you'll say "I wasn't being a hero I was reacting" is exactly what would make you a hero. Same with Bart, Gary, Nuno, and anyone else that would intervene on any level. We've lost the community aspect of our communities... I would guarantee you that our fathers and grandfathers would have intervened in these situations when someone needs help.
Funny you mention dads and grandfathers. My old man would have taken a cautious approach, probably getting a license plate and tailing him until Johnny could take over. My grandfather would have dreaded getting involved, and waited until it was unavoidable, but with the confidence that he could handle the situation when/if the time came. He was a retired marine and after 30 years was content to just do whatever my grandmother told him to do. I only saw him loose his temper once, but he was a gunnery sargent and drill instructor, and when he said "THAT'S ENOUGH" you damn well believed him. :lol
Honestly, I'd love to see how he would have handled the guy carrying the girl back to his truck.
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And Tempus... hero level my friend. The fact that you'll say "I wasn't being a hero I was reacting" is exactly what would make you a hero. Same with Bart, Gary, Nuno, and anyone else that would intervene on any level. We've lost the community aspect of our communities... I would guarantee you that our fathers and grandfathers would have intervened in these situations when someone needs help.
Funny you mention dads and grandfathers. My old man would have taken a cautious approach, probably getting a license plate and tailing him until Johnny could take over. My grandfather would have dreaded getting involved, and waited until it was unavoidable, but with the confidence that he could handle the situation when/if the time came. He was a retired marine and after 30 years was content to just do whatever my grandmother told him to do. I only saw him loose his temper once, but he was a gunnery sargent and drill instructor, and when he said "THAT'S ENOUGH" you damn well believed him. :lol
Honestly, I'd love to see how he would have handled the guy carrying the girl back to his truck.
Well, with the understanding that my dad is from another era (he's older, he's 82, and grew up in the late 50's and early 60's) and with no intent to impress or anything like that, the simple fact is, he would not have let that man walk back to his car. I don't know the form that would have taken, but that guy was not getting back to his car with a woman over his shoulder if that was my dad pumping gas.