DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: erwinrafael on March 06, 2019, 10:01:53 PM
-
I decided to open a discussion thread for D/T's bonus track because this song is such a pleasant surprise from the band! It is fun and, personally, one of the JR highlights from D/T. A bit of a problem with JLB sounding a bit strained especially in the first verse, but it's not really a big deal. This song is making me entertain the thought of DT making a straight-up hard rock album in the future because they can do it well based on this song. But maybe it would be too much for some fans.
Just included the (kinda stupid, hehehe) poll because Viper King really reminded me of the good aspects of SOA's Psychotic Symphony, and Divine Addiction has that same vibe. I honestly like both of these songs. These prog musicians can really deliver good hard rock tunes. More please!
-
Misheard Lyrics alert: at the 32 second mark, I keep hearing " Four Democrats tore up the road"
-
Cool chorus - maybe the best chorus on an album with weak choruses (not to have start this conversation all over again). Fun song, if rather lackluster.
-
Incredibly good compared to the potential expectations ("There's a bonus track that doesn't fit with the style of the album 'cause it's more a Rn'R, fun song"), it could have been a waste of CD space but it's incredibily cool and energetic.
I hope it sets a precedent, if DT feels like doing another off-field song in the future, just do it for the sake of it and use it as a bonus track.
-
KM
This poll is not interesting, but I do love the song. I like how it's a bonus track too, it doesn't really flow with the album, but it's just a fun hard rock song with a catchy chorus and an awesome instrumental section.
-
Love it, so catchy and fun. As soon as it finishes I really want to restart it straight away again.
-
I think it's a better closer than Pale Blue Dot!
PBD is a good song but it ends really abruptly, and doesn't really feel like a satisfying conclusion to an hour or so of music. Viper King, on the other hand, feels genuinely different to the rest of the album. It's a proper epilogue, it feels like a dessert. Similar to how Beneath the Surface is a great palate cleanser after Breaking All Illusions. Really works in a non pretentious way.
Also, VK is so much fun! Like the_silent_man, I immediately want to play it again. That's got to count for something, right? Think it might be top three on the album for me right now. Cracking song.
-
At first I was all WTF, but by now I love it. James could have sung the first verse an octave deeper, but other than that, this song just rocks!!
Also, I think it's way better than Perfect Str- eeeh Divine Addiction.
-
Here's an interesting take.
I think Viper King is the least best song on an excellent album.
I think Divine Addiction is the best song on an otherwise very average album.
So naturally I chose the "Kevin Moore" option
I agree that JLB should have sung the verse an octave lower. The song totally doesn't fit with the rest of the album but is still pretty enjoyable so even though I'm against the concept of bonus tracks, I think if there is a reason to have one, this song is perfect.
-
It's a lot of fun. I agree that the vocals could have done with a bit of variety in the verses, but who cares? You can tell they are having a blast playing the song.
I like JP's soloing in this one, as it's pretty bluesy and different for him. He seems to be channeling his fellow G3-er Joe Satriani - I get a kind of Satch Boogie vibe going on.
-
Any chance this song gets performed live? Would make for a fun live song. I know historically DT pretty much plays everything live but there isnt much of a precedent with a b side from the MM era.
-
When I first heard "bonus track" I thought, "oh no, this won't be good" that was reinforced by early reviews saying it's something DT has never done. My expectations couldn't be lower. Boy was I wrong.
What does it for me is JP's tone. I understand he's using a 7-string and it makes all the difference to me. They type of song, lyrics, tempo and other instruments are like a jazzy-blues boogie but the guitar is like death metal. It's a very pleasing combination and original. :tup
-
It's exactly what a bonus track should be - a song that's totally different from the rest of the album. Many bonus tracks are usually a leftover song that didn't make the cut to be on the album and are sub-par.
Viper King sounds like they just went for it without too much seriousness and just let it all hang out. It's a fun song and I can see it being an encore type song or maybe done live in a special venue (small club).
As for the poll, Divine Addiction sounds too much like a Deep Purple song. Viper King sounds more like an original, straight up rocker.
-
Viper King sounds like they just went for it without too much seriousness and just let it all hang out. It's a fun song and I can see it being an encore type song or maybe done live in a special venue (small club).
I remember discussions about Inside Out being a label that pushes to have bonus tracks. I wonder if they asked DT to do a bonus track and they were like "Uh, since we have to do a bonus song, why don't we just go for something different and just have fun?"
-
Imagine if they were on Inside Out since SC and POW was a bonus track.
-
VK was a pleasant surprise, and honestly one of my top 4 song for me from this album.
I love JP tone (Heavy and groovy), I really like the Deep Purple meets Heavy Metal vibe.
-
If it wasn't for At wits end, then VK would be my favorite song on the album. It gets strait to the point, its fun and its catchy. I wish they would do more songs like this.
-
VK ROCKS! I had friend over last night and we listened to d/t very loud at least three times. He's never been that much into Dream Theater, but he said this album won him over.. He kept wanting to hear Viper King over and over.
He said he was actually blown away by the whole album. :metal
-
I would love if they could squeeze it into the set somehow. Sure its a bonus track, but I think it would translate really well live and something to get the crowd pumped up.
-
I would love if they could squeeze it into the set somehow. Sure its a bonus track, but I think it would translate really well live and something to get the crowd pumped up.
Agreed. This song should be "a must play" staple from now on. Good first set closer, or an encore song. Leave on a fun lighter note that rocks!
-
Only encore song in the tour after Scenes from a Memory :metal
You want Octavarium? you want The Glass Prison following SFAM's outro? nevermind, just get some rock n' rooooolll :metal
-
Kevin Moore. Always. :lol
I LIKE Viper King, I just don't think the vibe fits the record (it would completely fit with FII), and for that reason, I bought the standard jewel case with it off (I have it digitally as a separate bonus track on a playlist with stuff like Raw Dog).
I just think the album is much better ending with A Pale Blue Dot, as the band basically intended (more times than not, these bonus tracks are just requests of the label and they tag them on various versions).
-
I think it would be perfect of the first of two songs in an encore before doing a classic tune, I think it would really fire up the crowd to come out to such an awesome rocking song before doing say like a Pull Me Under or Metropolis Pt1. type of "hit" DT song.
-
Someone alluded to this already, but is this the only b-side/non-album/bonus track in the Mangini era?
-
Someone alluded to this already, but is this the only b-side/non-album/bonus track in the Mangini era?
As far as I know. I wonder if they have any recorded "throw out" songs that didn't make the cut for the last four albums?
As far as VK, I consider it part of d/t even though it's a bonus track. 😎
-
I'm glad this is the bonus track. Easily the weakest song on the album by a big margin.
-
I like both songs!
-
I find the vocals really jarring on that song. Like, I know what James is trying to do there, but he just doesn't have the voice for it.
-
Kevin Murr
-
https://youtu.be/c1-_ge1s_9E
Track by track discussion with MM and JLB
-Marc.
-
https://youtu.be/c1-_ge1s_9E
Track by track discussion with MM and JLB
-Marc.
When I heard the song and read the lyrics, I immediately said, "This is Dream Theater's Highway Star". It's awesome that James articulated it the exact same way.
What I don't understand is why it's a bonus track to begin with. I mean, usually, when I think of bonus tracks, I think of songs that maybe were considered for the cutting room floor, because they just felt a little bit like filler or didn't quite live up to the standards of the band. But like it or not, one thing this song isn't is filler. It certainly has its own unique presence and personality, and it's so different from what DT has done in the past, that it feels weird that they'd choose to omit it from the standard edition of the album.
To say that it's a bonus track because it doesn't really fit DT's usual style is like saying, "We should sound only a certain way, and this isn't really a Dream Theater style song," and that kind of sits the wrong way with me, because DT has always been about experimentation and doing unique things with pre-established styles and genres (heck, The Astonishing had a song with a Tango beat), and this song is no exception.
So yeah, I really hope this song receives enough positive attention to maybe encourage them to embrace some of these more out there ideas and incorporate them into the core of their next album. Even if a little bit. I mean, one of the things that really made me pay notice to the band was that ragtime solo in The Dance of Eternity. And maybe that's where some of the criticism for DT's lack of experimentation these days is coming from, is that we don't get those moments with bold stylistic choices that much anymore.
Well, in any case, I love Viper King, and I really hope we'll hear more stuff like this (or something completely different) from DT in the future.
-
I like both songs!
-
Regarding this being "their Highway Star," I believe that wasn't their intention, it just was the direction the song took (versus the old concept of "Inspiration Corner" or whatever they called it). It was probably my least favorite aspect of where MP was taking the band. "This is the Maiden section in our Muse song based on the Metallica riff." Man I hated that. Learning to Live isn't their version of any other band's song. It is DT writing their own song in their own style.
-
Regarding this being "their Highway Star," I believe that wasn't their intention, it just was the direction the song took (versus the old concept of "Inspiration Corner" or whatever they called it). It was probably my least favorite aspect of where MP was taking the band. "This is the Maiden section in our Muse song based on the Metallica riff." Man I hated that. Learning to Live isn't their version of any other band's song. It is DT writing their own song in their own style.
No, you're probably right, but it's the result in the end that makes it their Highway Star, insofar as to say, "This is their definitive car driving anthem".
-
Right, like they didn't intend to write a song about a car, the music just seemed like it would be a good song to be about a car.
-
Right, like they didn't intend to write a song about a car, the music just seemed like it would be a good song to be about a car.
I mean, stylistically, musically I don't even think it's that similar to Highway Star. You can just as easily say that this song is Dream Theater's Born To Be Wild.
-
Pretty sure it's Dream Theater's Viper King. :D
-
I feel like I get the Highway Star comparison much better than the SOA one.
-
I like it a lot, but would like it more if recorded with a 6-string. 7-string is too muddy for that type of song.
-
I like it a lot, but would like it more if recorded with a 6-string. 7-string is too muddy for that type of song.
I wonder if it would still hit like a truck with a 6 strings, it's part of the charm :)
-
I like the song, but JLB's vocs are a little weird. I don't think the Gillan influences suit him so much anymore (he did sound great on the Perfect Strangers cover twenty+ years ago), and the Plant influences do not suit him at alllllll.
-
I like the song, but JLB's vocs are a little weird. I don't think the Gillan influences suit him so much anymore (he did sound great on the Perfect Strangers cover twenty+ years ago), and the Plant influences do not suit him at alllllll.
The only issue with JLB's vox on this song that I have are his very first vocal lines. He sounds so strained and nasally, almost like latter-day Geddy Lee trying to sing older songs. It's a bit of an ear-ache at first, but he seems fine in the rest of the song.
-Marc.
-
Love it. And I too would welcome more fun rock influence going forwards.
Edit: S2N also has some of that fun going on. I think of them in a similar-ish way.
-
Not a fan. Doesn’t “sound” like DT. There’s some decent, but unremarkable soloing, but other than that, meh.
-
I disagree. There’s a great straight-up rock/metal band in them dying to get out. I wouldn’t mind a whole album of songs in 4/4 to what they could come up with. JP is an awesome rock player.
-
I disagree. There’s a great straight-up rock/metal band in them dying to get out. I wouldn’t mind a whole album of songs in 4/4 to what they could come up with. JP is an awesome rock player.
Oh dear god, no, please no.
It’s true, JP can do rock. The others? Ehhh...
At the very least, JLB’s voice just doesnt lend itself to straight-up rock in my opinion.
-
Ok... If we're comparing tracks, here's my take:
Viper King: Definite Deep Purple Vibe in the keys and guitar lines. It has a groove to it that DT has never had before. I'm gonna give Mangini credit for that. He and Myung are deep in the pocket on this track. Mangini has a fun swing beat going with a bluesy swing groove from Jordan and JP. The song sounds like the band is having fun together. Everybody is supporting each other and enjoying what they do. It's a blast to listen to. I can only imagine how fun it was to record. My only gripe is that because it's such a fun song, it ends too quickly.
Divine Addiction: Again with the obvious Deep Purple vibe through the whole track, but for me that's where the similarities end. The biggest difference between these tracks is the amount of joy Viper King gives while this does not (at least for me), and I think the reason for that is the tempo and key. I may be mistaken about the key here but I believe Viper King is in a major key and Divine Addiction is a minor one. There's a feel to Viper King that this lacks. I can't really put my finger on it.
Viper King feels fresh and new for DT, while Divine Addiction feels like something DT has done before. They're both good songs in their own right, but there really isn't anything other than the Deep Purple homage to tie them together. No real comparison,
-
Divine Addiction?
-
Divine Addiction?
Divine Addiction (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ark4fyQDXUM)
-Marc.
-
Gotcha. I didn't notice the poll at the top of the page.
-
Personally, I don't really hear the deep purple influence in Viper King, aside from the fact that Deep Purple used a lot of organs in their sound, and this song is very organ driven. I made the Highway Star comparison purely based on the subject matter, and what it represents for the band, in other words, being their driving song, and I'm quite sure that James LaBrie made the comparison for the very same reason, and not because of the general sound.
With Divine Addiction, I can definitely hear the Purple influence in the sound. But from what I'm hearing, it's not about driving a car, is it?
So yeah, it's kind of a moot comparison either way. The point is, Dream Theater now has a fun, bouncy, driving anthem that you could throw into a playlist with the likes of Radar Love and Born To Be Wild.
-
The funny thing is I just listened to their version of Made In Japan over the weekend before the new one showed up. So I just laughed when I hear Viper King for the first time.