DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Peter1960 on February 24, 2019, 02:00:08 AM
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I decided to buy the art book package for the new album as I wanted to hear the hi res versions of the tracks. I don't actually have a CD player as such; all my music is stored on a NAS network drive and streamed using a Bluesound Node 2i player.
I had assumed that the hi res files could be isolated on the DVD / blu ray disk and I could then transfer them to my NAS drive, so that they could be "played" by the Node 2i. However, I am unable to see the hi res files separately - I can see the stem files for "Untethered Angel" but the only other items are video and audio files, which, I assume, will together make up the 5.1 tracks, animation and hi res files.
I downloaded an app called "Movavi video convertor", hoping that I could use it to extract the hi res files so that they could be transferred to my NAS drive; however, it is not possible to do this as the disk is copyrighted (perhaps understandably, to prevent it from being copied).
Does anyone know how I might be able to extract the hi res files, separately from the other items on the disks, so that they can be transferred to my NAS drive ? I could play the blu ray disk through my blu ray player, which is connected to my hifi system; however, I would prefer to have the files in my music library on the NAS drive with all my other tracks. This will then save me having to put the blu ray disk into the player every time I wish to play the album ( I find streaming much more convenient than physically playing CD's !!).
Thanks for your help and I look forward to your suggestions.
BTW - great album !!
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Some very knowledgeable fellas talking about a similar topic here https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53448.0
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you could use dvdfab to extract the 5.1 audio mix to flac, or downsample the 5.1 to stereo flac
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So when you play the Blu-ray or DVD and play the 5.1 mixes, do you have an option to choose audio streams? I saw that even the self-titled album DVD that was only advertised as 5.1 had a stereo track which was higher resolution than the CD. They might be referring to that as the hi-res files rather than having them separately available.
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So when you play the Blu-ray or DVD and play the 5.1 mixes, do you have an option to choose audio streams? I saw that even the self-titled album DVD that was only advertised as 5.1 had a stereo track which was higher resolution than the CD. They might be referring to that as the hi-res files rather than having them separately available.
Yes. There are 3 options.
96/24 Stereo LPCM
DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1
96/24 5.1 LPCM
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As noted in the previous post, if you insert the blu ray disk you have the option of playing either the 5.1 mix or two versions of the 24/96 (hi res) files, one of which appeared to be a combination of the two.
I suspect that it will not be possible to extract the hi res files themselves for playing via a a network streamer, but if anyone is able to do this, I would be interested to know how they did it !
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As noted in the previous post, if you insert the blu ray disk you have the option of playing either the 5.1 mix or two versions of the 24/96 (hi res) files, one of which appeared to be a combination of the two.
I suspect that it will not be possible to extract the hi res files themselves for playing via a a network streamer, but if anyone is able to do this, I would be interested to know how they did it !
i think it wont be possible, you just need to extract the audio using dvdfab, and it will convert what you choose to flac
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So when you play the Blu-ray or DVD and play the 5.1 mixes, do you have an option to choose audio streams? I saw that even the self-titled album DVD that was only advertised as 5.1 had a stereo track which was higher resolution than the CD. They might be referring to that as the hi-res files rather than having them separately available.
Yes. There are 3 options.
96/24 Stereo LPCM
DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1
96/24 5.1 LPCM
That's great to know, once I get my blu-ray I will rip that stereo track and convert to flac. I use makemkv to rip into a raw MKV file and then extract the audio stream using MKVToolNIX GUI. After that the resulting .mka file with audio only and chapter markers is easy to convert to flac using foobar with its FLAC plugin.
I know it sounds laborious but once you do it, it then becomes quite straightforward to deal with after. Plus I'm sure there are other programs that do it straight to FLAC but this has been my method for a while.
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Well... my verdict this evening, having alternated the vinyl, CD and every version of the audio on the blu-ray, is that everything except the vinyl is brick-walled to cluck. It all sounds awful. Thing is, the vinyl ends up sounding muffled by comparison.
But it's the vinyl that offers the best aural experience once you realise it's not muffled; it's just not been beaten to an absolute pulp.
The music, however, is sublime.
Oh, bonus point: the 5.1 mix appears to bring nothing to the party whatsoever. Sorry, DT.
Edit: it's boiling my blood listening to the 5.1 mix. Whoever's responsible for this utter abortion of a brickwall should be summarily tarred and feathered. It's THAT bad. I mean, seriously, why make an album this good only to allow it to be royally fucked over like this? Sorry if I sound cross... it's because I am. In fact, I am fucking livid :) And the CD is as bad.
Edit 2: and don't get me started on the animation for Pale Blue Dot. Good GRIEF!
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nbn, care to share your audio setup?
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Well... my verdict this evening, having alternated the vinyl, CD and every version of the audio on the blu-ray, is that everything except the vinyl is brick-walled to cluck. It all sounds awful. Thing is, the vinyl ends up sounding muffled by comparison.
But it's the vinyl that offers the best aural experience once you realise it's not muffled; it's just not been beaten to an absolute pulp.
The music, however, is sublime.
Oh, bonus point: the 5.1 mix appears to bring nothing to the party whatsoever. Sorry, DT.
Edit: it's boiling my blood listening to the 5.1 mix. Whoever's responsible for this utter abortion of a brickwall should be summarily tarred and feathered. It's THAT bad. I mean, seriously, why make an album this good only to allow it to be royally fucked over like this? Sorry if I sound cross... it's because I am. In fact, I am fucking livid :) And the CD is as bad.
Edit 2: and don't get me started on the animation for Pale Blue Dot. Good GRIEF!
i was hoping this wasnt the case, the SC 5.1 was ok, and not brickwalled, well, it was smart to only buy the vinyl haha
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Well... my verdict this evening, having alternated the vinyl, CD and every version of the audio on the blu-ray, is that everything except the vinyl is brick-walled to cluck. It all sounds awful. Thing is, the vinyl ends up sounding muffled by comparison.
But it's the vinyl that offers the best aural experience once you realise it's not muffled; it's just not been beaten to an absolute pulp.
The music, however, is sublime.
Oh, bonus point: the 5.1 mix appears to bring nothing to the party whatsoever. Sorry, DT.
Edit: it's boiling my blood listening to the 5.1 mix. Whoever's responsible for this utter abortion of a brickwall should be summarily tarred and feathered. It's THAT bad. I mean, seriously, why make an album this good only to allow it to be royally fucked over like this? Sorry if I sound cross... it's because I am. In fact, I am fucking livid :) And the CD is as bad.
Edit 2: and don't get me started on the animation for Pale Blue Dot. Good GRIEF!
Thanks for this info. I bought the blu-ray and vinyl in the hopes of them having better mastering. I only have had the chance to listen to the BD 24/96 stereo. While it does sound fuller and smoother than Deezer Hi-Fi the dynamic range seemed to be the same and this just confirmed.
I am glad that the vinyl at least is not brickwalled. I just moved into a new house and I need to do some installing before I have my full home theater setup and vinyl player in place. Even though the digital versions are brickwalled the mix and the poduction is much better than that of the previous Mangini era records. So I am expecting the vinyl to sound really good.
It is a shame that the blu-ray, hi-res files and the 5.1 mix has the same amount of dynamic range compression than the digital stream and the cd. Even though I hate brickwalled sound I can somewhat understand it on the master that is meant for streaming, but this does not make any sense. People who are buying the blu-ray, hi-res files, 5.1 mix and the vinyl are after the best possible sound quality. Why aren't these all with dynamic mastering?
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Well, others will hopefully have a more positive experience than mine. I can't guarantee the 5.1 has the same DR as the CD since I didn't objectively test it. But cranked it loud, it sounded brick-walled.
Regarding the vinyl, if I get a chance over the coming days, I will try recording the output from my turntable through another PC to see if it's different (ie less muffled-sounding).
faizoff, I have a Sony DN1050 amp and a Sony BDP-S7200 blu-ray player hooked up to Tannoy Mercury floor-standing speakers with matched rear satellites. With my PC, I'm listening through Logitech Z906 5.1 speakers, and Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro headphones (they're open-backed). My turntable is an Audio-Technica AT-LP5. None of my equipment is particularly special but it's not quite entry level, either.
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thats a shame! who would want a brickwalled 5.1 master? this happened with DT/TA, it seems it was a smart choice to buy the vinyl
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faizoff, I have a Sony DN1050 amp and a Sony BDP-S7200 blu-ray player hooked up to Tannoy Mercury floor-standing speakers with matched rear satellites. With my PC, I'm listening through Logitech Z906 5.1 speakers, and Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro headphones (they're open-backed). My turntable is an Audio-Technica AT-LP5. None of my equipment is particularly special but it's not quite entry level, either.
Cool setup. I too have an open-backed pair, and a comparable one to the DT 990, the Sennheiser HD6xx for PC playback. What software do you use? I use JRiver Media Center to organize and play my music and it utilizes the motherboard's realtek audio chip ALC892 on exclusive mode quite well.
I have a Logitech Z506 5.1 setup though I mostly listen on my headphones. I'm thinking of getting either a DAC/AMP or a better soundcard, haven't decided yet. Music is definitely a lot more fun to listen to after upgrading my audio gear.
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Well, others will hopefully have a more positive experience than mine. I can't guarantee the 5.1 has the same DR as the CD since I didn't objectively test it. But cranked it loud, it sounded brick-walled.
Regarding the vinyl, if I get a chance over the coming days, I will try recording the output from my turntable through another PC to see if it's different (ie less muffled-sounding).
faizoff, I have a Sony DN1050 amp and a Sony BDP-S7200 blu-ray player hooked up to Tannoy Mercury floor-standing speakers with matched rear satellites. With my PC, I'm listening through Logitech Z906 5.1 speakers, and Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro headphones (they're open-backed). My turntable is an Audio-Technica AT-LP5. None of my equipment is particularly special but it's not quite entry level, either.
Did you try the BD hi-res stereo? I may have to eat my words about the stereo track... I did some more listening with the 24bit 96 kHz stereo and to me it does sound fuller and smoother than Deezer and the CD. And contrary to what I first thought this is because it has a better dynamic range. I also noticed that the beginning riff of the Paralyzed in the left channel echoes to the right channel. You cannot hear this echo in the CD version nor in the Deezer stream. I am after all glad I got the BD as at least the hi-res stereo is better. I briefly tried the LPCM 5.1 and played it back as stereo and it sounds a lot louder than the stereo. This suggests that the 5.1 mix is louder / mpre brickwalled. Unless there is something else that makes the 5.1 signal louder compared to the stereo.
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dr loudnesswar.com shows the cd and 96/24 files as avg dynamic range as 6 but the blu ray stereo as 11. so it seems the blu ray stereo is alot better. I dont have mine yet so cant tell you for sure
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Did you try the BD hi-res stereo? I may have to eat my words about the stereo track...
Oooh, interesting. I'll have a listen tomorrow. Thanks for heads-up.
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I ordered the blu-ray version of D/T. How would I go about ripping the high-res files and saving as FLAC? The CD mix is a bit too loud for me so I"m really looking forward to the high-res versions.
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I pasted this earlier in the thread.
I use makemkv to rip into a raw MKV file and then extract the audio stream using MKVToolNIX GUI. After that the resulting .mka file with audio only and chapter markers is easy to convert to flac using foobar with its FLAC plugin.
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After purchasing the album on HD Tracks and then realizing it was also brickwalled, I emailed them politely asking for a refund. I thought you guys would be interested in reading the reply.
“There is nothing inherently wrong with the source files and we have received no other complaints. Please note, we do not record or master anything here at HDTracks. We receive the most up to date masters from our record label partners as does every high res retailer. The labels only provided what they have. Each retailer receives the same files. Each label has their own recording/mastering process. There is no universal standard. But we do ask that every label provide the best quality possible. Sometimes the clarity of the high res mastering may present qualities that were unnoticeable or masked in previous formats or versions. We do ask every label to take note of this when remastering.
If those issues and "loudness wars" are a factor in your decisions then you might want to forgo a future purchase, as we have limited reasons for returns.
Sincerely,
Josh”
They DID issue me a refund, at least.
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I'd chalk it up to a lesson learned and read reviews beforehand before buying again. It is disappointing that the HD version isn't any better, but it is what it is.
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After purchasing the album on HD Tracks and then realizing it was also brickwalled, I emailed them politely asking for a refund. I thought you guys would be interested in reading the reply.
“There is nothing inherently wrong with the source files and we have received no other complaints. Please note, we do not record or master anything here at HDTracks. We receive the most up to date masters from our record label partners as does every high res retailer. The labels only provided what they have. Each retailer receives the same files. Each label has their own recording/mastering process. There is no universal standard. But we do ask that every label provide the best quality possible. Sometimes the clarity of the high res mastering may present qualities that were unnoticeable or masked in previous formats or versions. We do ask every label to take note of this when remastering.
If those issues and "loudness wars" are a factor in your decisions then you might want to forgo a future purchase, as we have limited reasons for returns.
Sincerely,
Josh”
They DID issue me a refund, at least.
yeah man, the HDtracks version after ADTOE sucks to be honest, they have the same brickwalled master and DR as the cd...
always check this before buying
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=
I was ripping today the 5.1 mix from breaking the fourth wall, and downsampling it to 2.0 because it sounds better than the HD tracks version, i didnt check the DR but its better, im still waiting for my vinyl version of Distance over time, but it seems its better than the cd
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I pasted this earlier in the thread.
I use makemkv to rip into a raw MKV file and then extract the audio stream using MKVToolNIX GUI. After that the resulting .mka file with audio only and chapter markers is easy to convert to flac using foobar with its FLAC plugin.
Okay, here's a question for you ;D
I've managed to get .mka files from the blu-ray using your method. But I am struggling to get 44.1k/16-bit wav files from them. I've tried using Foobar but it's outputting in an unrecognised bitrate (I am trying to get them passed through the DR meter). Any ideas?
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Hmm not sure I had that issue. I looked at the files that I last ripped (Rush 2112) which lists as 3266 kbps bitrate and retains the 96k/24 bit depth. I never uploaded to the DR site so I don't know what they require for upload.
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The issue turned out to be that the files were 96000 Hz. Found that out when I suddenly thought why not try using Audacity! You can flip the project rate (measured in Hz) so tried exporting to wav files once again once I'd changed to 44100 and bingo, job done.
So here's the output for the conversion from the stereo files on the blu-ray (converted to wav files at 41000 Hz).
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DR Peak RMS Filename
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DR11 -0.01 dB -13.64 dB 01 Untethered Angel.wav
DR11 -0.15 dB -13.62 dB 02 Paralyzed.wav
DR12 -0.00 dB -14.09 dB 03 Fall Into the Light.wav
DR11 -0.45 dB -13.54 dB 04 Barstool Warrior.wav
DR11 -0.59 dB -13.53 dB 05 Room 137.wav
DR11 over -12.54 dB 06 S2N.wav
DR12 -0.00 dB -15.24 dB 07 At Wit's End.wav
DR11 -1.47 dB -16.95 dB 08 Out of Reach.wav
DR12 -0.00 dB -14.09 dB 09 Pale Blue Dot.wav
DR12 -0.48 dB -14.21 dB 10 Viper King.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of files: 10
Official DR value: DR11
==============================================================================================
For immediate comparison, here's the assessment for the CD (converted to 320 Kbps).
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DR Peak RMS Filename
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DR6 -0.00 dB -7.85 dB 1-01 Untethered Angel.mp3
DR6 -0.00 dB -7.51 dB 1-02 Paralyzed.mp3
DR7 -0.00 dB -8.22 dB 1-03 Fall into the Light.mp3
DR6 -0.00 dB -7.76 dB 1-04 Barstool Warrior.mp3
DR6 -0.00 dB -6.98 dB 1-05 Room 137.mp3
DR7 -0.00 dB -7.58 dB 1-06 S2N.mp3
DR8 -0.00 dB -10.03 dB 1-07 At Wit's End.mp3
DR7 -0.00 dB -9.89 dB 1-08 Out of Reach.mp3
DR6 -0.00 dB -7.95 dB 1-09 Pale Blue Dot.mp3
DR6 -0.00 dB -7.63 dB 1-10 Viper King.mp3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of files: 10
Official DR value: DR7
==============================================================================================
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Here's the visual comparison for Viper King. To summarise, the top one is the export from the stereo track on the blu-ray (converted to wav at 44100), the bottom is the CD via MP3 (at 320).
(https://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/nobloodyname/Capture_2.jpg) (https://s52.photobucket.com/user/nobloodyname/media/Capture_2.jpg.html)
Is there any easier way to post images here, incidentally, rather than having to go through the old Photobucket routine? :D
I couldn't (work out how to?) embed the image, but you can see the full image here at Google Photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/h4tkSYqEgSMeo49R6
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You can't upload images to the forum directly so you'll always have to link from another site. Imgur is probably the best/easiest these days though.
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I use imgur as well.
So the bluray stereo looks promising over CD version, now just have to wait for the bluray artbook set.
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Here's the visual comparison for Viper King. To summarise, the top one is the export from the stereo track on the blu-ray (converted to wav at 44100), the bottom is the CD via MP3 (at 320).
(https://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/nobloodyname/Capture_2.jpg) (https://s52.photobucket.com/user/nobloodyname/media/Capture_2.jpg.html)
Is there any easier way to post images here, incidentally, rather than having to go through the old Photobucket routine? :D
I couldn't (work out how to?) embed the image, but you can see the full image here at Google Photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/h4tkSYqEgSMeo49R6
great! seems so much better, did you try to check the 5.1 mix? does it have the same DR?
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I converted the DVD Stereo High Definition to WAV 44100 16 bits as well.
It's almost the same as the BluRay HD Stereo mix. But don't have a Blurayplayer in my laptop to rip, so instead used the DVD from the Artbook.
Yes! Dynamics ;)
DR Peak RMS Filename
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DR11 -0.02 dB -13.60 dB 01_Untethered Angel.wav
DR11 -0.16 dB -13.62 dB 02_Paralyzed.wav
DR12 -0.00 dB -14.09 dB 03_Fall Into The Light.wav
DR11 -0.40 dB -13.55 dB 04_Barstool Warrior.wav
DR11 -0.65 dB -13.53 dB 05_Room 137.wav
DR11 over -12.54 dB 06_S2N.wav
DR12 -0.00 dB -15.24 dB 07_At Wit's End.wav
DR11 -1.27 dB -16.95 dB 08_Out Of Reach.wav
DR11 -0.00 dB -14.09 dB 09_Pale Blue Dot.wav
DR12 -0.55 dB -14.16 dB 10_Viper King (Bonus Track).wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of files: 10
Official DR value: DR11
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So when you play the Blu-ray or DVD and play the 5.1 mixes, do you have an option to choose audio streams? I saw that even the self-titled album DVD that was only advertised as 5.1 had a stereo track which was higher resolution than the CD. They might be referring to that as the hi-res files rather than having them separately available.
Yes. There are 3 options.
96/24 Stereo LPCM
DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1
96/24 5.1 LPCM
That's great to know, once I get my blu-ray I will rip that stereo track and convert to flac. I use makemkv to rip into a raw MKV file and then extract the audio stream using MKVToolNIX GUI. After that the resulting .mka file with audio only and chapter markers is easy to convert to flac using foobar with its FLAC plugin.
I know it sounds laborious but once you do it, it then becomes quite straightforward to deal with after. Plus I'm sure there are other programs that do it straight to FLAC but this has been my method for a while.
I kind of got stuck here. What do I have to do in MKVTool to get the mka file? Is there a simpler way to rip the audio from the blu ray? I have a Macbook Pro from 2012 so I may not have the chipsets to rip the audio.
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I used a tool called DVD Audio Extractor http://www.dvdae.com/
Full functions for 30 days. Can also rip from Blu-ray.
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So when you play the Blu-ray or DVD and play the 5.1 mixes, do you have an option to choose audio streams? I saw that even the self-titled album DVD that was only advertised as 5.1 had a stereo track which was higher resolution than the CD. They might be referring to that as the hi-res files rather than having them separately available.
Yes. There are 3 options.
96/24 Stereo LPCM
DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1
96/24 5.1 LPCM
That's great to know, once I get my blu-ray I will rip that stereo track and convert to flac. I use makemkv to rip into a raw MKV file and then extract the audio stream using MKVToolNIX GUI. After that the resulting .mka file with audio only and chapter markers is easy to convert to flac using foobar with its FLAC plugin.
I know it sounds laborious but once you do it, it then becomes quite straightforward to deal with after. Plus I'm sure there are other programs that do it straight to FLAC but this has been my method for a while.
I kind of got stuck here. What do I have to do in MKVTool to get the mka file? Is there a simpler way to rip the audio from the blu ray? I have a Macbook Pro from 2012 so I may not have the chipsets to rip the audio.
Below the 'input' box, under 'tracks, chapters and tags', deselect 'video'. That should automatically change the file format under that to .mka - assuming you're seeing what I saw this morning, of course!
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Here's the visual comparison for Viper King. To summarise, the top one is the export from the stereo track on the blu-ray (converted to wav at 44100), the bottom is the CD via MP3 (at 320).
(https://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/nobloodyname/Capture_2.jpg) (https://s52.photobucket.com/user/nobloodyname/media/Capture_2.jpg.html)
Is there any easier way to post images here, incidentally, rather than having to go through the old Photobucket routine? :D
I couldn't (work out how to?) embed the image, but you can see the full image here at Google Photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/h4tkSYqEgSMeo49R6
great! seems so much better, did you try to check the 5.1 mix? does it have the same DR?
No, sorry. I'm not sure how I would do that, to be honest. Downmix the 5.1 to stereo, I guess. Anyone else know?
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yep, i did that with the breaking the fourth wall bluray, sounds much better to me
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So when you play the Blu-ray or DVD and play the 5.1 mixes, do you have an option to choose audio streams? I saw that even the self-titled album DVD that was only advertised as 5.1 had a stereo track which was higher resolution than the CD. They might be referring to that as the hi-res files rather than having them separately available.
Yes. There are 3 options.
96/24 Stereo LPCM
DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1
96/24 5.1 LPCM
That's great to know, once I get my blu-ray I will rip that stereo track and convert to flac. I use makemkv to rip into a raw MKV file and then extract the audio stream using MKVToolNIX GUI. After that the resulting .mka file with audio only and chapter markers is easy to convert to flac using foobar with its FLAC plugin.
I know it sounds laborious but once you do it, it then becomes quite straightforward to deal with after. Plus I'm sure there are other programs that do it straight to FLAC but this has been my method for a while.
I kind of got stuck here. What do I have to do in MKVTool to get the mka file? Is there a simpler way to rip the audio from the blu ray? I have a Macbook Pro from 2012 so I may not have the chipsets to rip the audio.
Below the 'input' box, under 'tracks, chapters and tags', deselect 'video'. That should automatically change the file format under that to .mka - assuming you're seeing what I saw this morning, of course!
I believe I did this and I was only getting the AAC output option. I'll check it out again later today.
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I think it says AAC as the audio output but in reality, it just leaves whatever the original audio format is.
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It is great that there is a version out there with dynamics. I just cannot understand why they did not send that version to HD Tracks or put it on the CD for that matter. The poor mastering is distracting to me. I feel like it detracts from a good album.
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I just finished listening to the BR version which I converted to mp3@320 and I had a freaking religious experience. Now I’m so pissed that the CD and HD Tracks versions sound like shit in comparison I could kick the people who did this in the nuts.
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The PCM/DTS HD seems to be a little bit better on DR:
I ripped the 5.1 PCM and downsampled it to stereo:
foobar2000 1.4.3 beta 1 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2019-02-28 11:40:55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Dream Theater / Distance Over Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR12 -5.33 dB -18.91 dB 6:15 01-Untethered Angel
DR11 -5.72 dB -19.06 dB 4:18 02-Paralyzed
DR12 -4.83 dB -19.20 dB 7:05 03-Fall Into the Light
DR11 -5.43 dB -18.85 dB 6:44 04-Barstool Warrior
DR12 -6.12 dB -18.97 dB 4:23 05-Room 137
DR11 -5.02 dB -17.98 dB 6:22 06-S2N
DR12 -5.05 dB -20.49 dB 9:21 07-At Wit's End
DR11 -6.54 dB -22.21 dB 4:05 08-Out of Reach
DR12 -5.35 dB -19.42 dB 8:26 09-Pale Blue Dot
DR12 -5.66 dB -19.41 dB 4:02 10-Viper King
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR12
Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 2940 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================
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I just finished listening to the BR version which I converted to mp3@320 and I had a freaking religious experience. Now I’m so pissed that the CD and HD Tracks versions sound like shit in comparison I could kick the people who did this in the nuts.
Absolutely! The CD version is understandable as it is (sadly) part of the loudness war going on, but the HDTracks is another story!
And yes, I composed a usb from my BR for in my car and yes it is so much better!
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The PCM/DTS HD seems to be a little bit better on DR:
I ripped the 5.1 PCM and downsampled it to stereo
Yeah! Doesnt suprise me, because it sounded so good on my system but I was confused by the post of noblooydename for blaming the 5.1 mix...but didnt test it myself on DR...
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The PCM/DTS HD seems to be a little bit better on DR:
I ripped the 5.1 PCM and downsampled it to stereo
Yeah! Doesnt suprise me, because it sounded so good on my system but I was confused by the post of noblooydename for blaming the 5.1 mix...but didnt test it myself on DR...
Yeah, at least vinyl/bluray its the must buy edition, it sounds SO MUCH BETTER :metal its a shame the HDTRACKS sucks, same thing happened with DT and TA
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Two separate things for me:
1) the 5.1 mix itself didn't bring anything to the party. So what's the point? I think it's there for the sake of it being there... *shrug*
2) yes, I thought it sounded far too loud. Surprised at the dynamic range findings, absolutely ;D
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I just finished listening to the BR version which I converted to mp3@320 and I had a freaking religious experience. Now I’m so pissed that the CD and HD Tracks versions sound like shit in comparison I could kick the people who did this in the nuts.
Yup... and it's a little disappointing (although honestly not surprising) that more people aren't posting in this thread to express their dismay :biggrin:
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Two separate things for me:
1) the 5.1 mix itself didn't bring anything to the party. So what's the point? I think it's there for the sake of it being there... *shrug*
2) yes, I thought it sounded far too loud. Surprised at the dynamic range findings, absolutely ;D
yeah, the 5.1 is so so, i think the SC 5.1 was better
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Yup... and it's a little disappointing (although honestly not surprising) that more people aren't posting in this thread to express their dismay :biggrin:
Maybe they were scared off by your earlier claim that the Blu-ray mixes are just as loud as the CD? ;)
But I'm happy to hear that is not actually the case. Though it's a real headscratcher that they have a more dynamic master lying around and didn't use it for the HDtracks release. :huh:
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Yup... and it's a little disappointing (although honestly not surprising) that more people aren't posting in this thread to express their dismay :biggrin:
Maybe they were scared off by your earlier claim that the Blu-ray mixes are just as loud as the CD? ;)
But I'm happy to hear that is not actually the case. Though it's a real headscratcher that they have a more dynamic master lying around and didn't use it for the HDtracks release. :huh:
Aww, cut me some slack... I was somewhat inebriated while in charge of a keyboard when I posted that :lol (Also, I meant only to refer to the 5.1 version!)
The rip I created from the stereo tracks on the blu-ray does sound much better and I'm really rather happy about that. Which is brilliant because the album deserves it. I feel sorry for people who've splashed out on the so-called HD tracks. It's pretty poor that there is a demonstrably better source available.
I do sit and wonder why an artist would- ...bah, been here a thousand times and it invariably goes nowhere good.
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I'm so glad you guys discovered this. I found the compression so irritating. One negative effect I've noticed though is that it allows the trigger samples on Mangini's snare stand out as synthetic more, IMO. Otherwise, it is so much more listenable.
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Still impatiently waiting for my artbook order from Amazon. I guess I can wait another two weeks assuming March 15th will be the shipping date.
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I just finished listening to the BR version which I converted to mp3@320
I really wish I could do that, my 8 year old computer crashes if I ever try to play a BR on it, let alone rip it :lol
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Just use the DVD, then.
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I just finished listening to the BR version which I converted to mp3@320
I really wish I could do that, my 8 year old computer crashes if I ever try to play a BR on it, let alone rip it :lol
My 8 1/2 year old computer doesn't have that issue. What software are you using to play the BR? I have CyberLink PowerDVD 16 and it has been reliable ever since I moved to Windows 10.
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I use VLC, I don't know if it's worth mentioning but I'm still on Windows 7.
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Being on Win 7 shouldn't matter that much. VLC won't properly work with playback for Blu-rays. They work for DVDs and other video files. Each Blu-ray has a set of keys that are encrypted on the disc and need to be decrypted for playback. Official players like Cyberlink PowerDVD have those official keys to decrypt for PC playback.
If you don't want to get PowerDVD or any other app, your other choice is to rip the Blu-ray using software like MakeMKV and use VLC to playback the ripped file.
Come to think of it no free app will be able to natively playback with menus on the PC. Your best bet is a paid program.
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Finally pulled it off. Thanks guys.
Man, this BR stereo mix breathes a shit ton. You can hear LaBrie's voice effects clearly (and some of the echoes as well) and now they don't feel like the effects were hiding James' voice. Definitely less compressed. Too bad this wasn't used on the actual CD. I also got to hear a bit more of the keyboard.
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It was only with the hi-res mastering that I noticed all the vocal harmonies. Really prefer this!
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How do you get the Blu-ray? Does it only come with he boxed set? Why oh why was this not the HD Tracks master. I bet they could send a no compressed master to HD Tracks and those of us could download it again. I think I will email them.
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There are two boxed sets that have the bluray. The deluxe one that comes with vinyl. The other one is the artbook that comes with 2 CDs, 1 DVD & 1 Bluray. The second one I assume is what most are ordering.
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Looks like both sets are sold out already at Century Media.
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I emailed HD Tracks and told them that there was a dynamic master out there and that many fans are looking for a dynamic version. I asked them if they could try to get that version for D/T on their site and to ask other bands in the future to provide dynamic versions. I told them it will definitely increase sales for them and the artists. I will let you know how they respond.
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I also emailed them. Address is below. Come on guys, only takes a second.
contact@hdtracks.com
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I also emailed them. Address is below. Come on guys, only takes a second.
contact@hdtracks.com
Sent. :tup :tup
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Burning Shed has the artbook. I paid $64 including shipping. This album is worth it.
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In hindsight I should have probably ordered from lasercd. With 2 weeks out from "official" street date I might as well wait for Amazon to ship it. If they cancel or delay it further then it's going to blow chunks.
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It is good that people are giving HDTrack the feedback on the loudness issue, but I think it would be more important to aim the feedback directly to InsideOut. HDTracks claim to be asking for the best possible master for their releases from the record company. it is the record label that decides to give them the loud master after all.
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I don't think HDTracks can be absolved of all responsibility, though.
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HD Tracks emailed me back reiterating they have nothing to do with this since the label is the one that sends them a lousy master. He encouraged me to bombard the label with complaints. Email is below fellas!
contact@insideout.de
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You are right. We should email Inside out too.
I don't think HDTracks can be absolved of all responsibility, though.
I think HD Tracks needs to tell them that the best possible master is a dynamic one. Just saying best possible master will result in the same old brickwalled versions. You are right that they have some responsibility too. They need to tell the labels that the type of customers coming to HD Tracks are NOT looking for heavily compressed versions. HD crap is not any better than plain old crap.
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I won't copy and paste the email here, since I am not a fan of putting someone's private email to me on to a public forum, but the reply I got from HD was basically that they can only sell what is given to them by the label because they do not do any mastering themselves. In other words, Inside Out completely dropped the ball by sending "HD files" to HD Tracks that are just as compressed and brickwalled as the normal version released to the public. Very poor form on the part of IO.
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This thread saved me $18. Thanks!
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Inside Out completely dropped the ball by sending "HD files" to HD Tracks that are just as compressed and brickwalled as the normal version released to the public. Very poor form on the part of IO.
Especially since we know they had a much better high resolution master they could have sent to HDTracks instead (the one on the blu ray).
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You are right. We should email Inside out too.
I don't think HDTracks can be absolved of all responsibility, though.
I think HD Tracks needs to tell them that the best possible master is a dynamic one. Just saying best possible master will result in the same old brickwalled versions. You are right that they have some responsibility too. They need to tell the labels that the type of customers coming to HD Tracks are NOT looking for heavily compressed versions. HD crap is not any better than plain old crap.
I agree. They should specifically ask for a dynamic master as this is what their customers are after.
I sent an e-mail to InsideOut yesterday about the HDTracks version and explaining the importance of dynamic master, but haven't gotten a reply yet.
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Inside Out completely dropped the ball by sending "HD files" to HD Tracks that are just as compressed and brickwalled as the normal version released to the public. Very poor form on the part of IO.
Especially since we know they had a much better high resolution master they could have sent to HDTracks instead (the one on the blu ray).
I am replying and trying to explain this. It should not be much more work if any to send this version.
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I won't copy and paste the email here, since I am not a fan of putting someone's private email to me on to a public forum, but the reply I got from HD was basically that they can only sell what is given to them by the label because they do not do any mastering themselves. In other words, Inside Out completely dropped the ball by sending "HD files" to HD Tracks that are just as compressed and brickwalled as the normal version released to the public. Very poor form on the part of IO.
Yea, the main blame is with Inside Out. I am trying to get HD Tracks to advocate for us though. If they tell the labels this is what people want hopefully they will listen.
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Bought the album on hdtracks day one and got mad about crazy dynamic range compression. Then I started playing with blu-ray 5.1 LPCM mix trying to convert it to stereo, without even checking the stereo 2.0 mix first, thinking that's where hdtracks sourced it from.
Here's the way I did 5.1 to stereo :-)
Rip the audio to 5.1 FLAC files.
In Audacity, set front L+R as stereo, set back L+R as stereo, C and LFE as mono. Export audio as 32-bit float 96KHz WAV. Open the new stereo WAV (which will look brickwalled, then amplify to 0db, a trick I learned on youtube.
Export as 24-bit 96KHz FLAC
Still sounded better than hdtracks.
Then I found out that LPCM stereo tracks from blu-ray actually sounded good, which I kept them as FLAC for main listening experience.
Sent hdtracks an email.
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Have you checked whether the Blu-ray 2.0 version is different than the front channels of the 5.1 version? Maybe it's "incomplete", missing the content from the center channel.
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Yes, the front speakers sometimes missing the keyboard parts, and probably some other stuff. I actually merged the front and rear channels as stereo, and center+sub as mono, into the stereo mixdown.
In the end, I though that the blu-ray stereo mix had little more ambience than my surround downmix.
HDtracks needs to start providing technical info and the history of the masters, or I'll start calling them Fake hdtracks.
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Have you checked whether the Blu-ray 2.0 contains the keyboard parts that the Blu-ray 5.1 front channels are missing?
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Blu-ray 2.0 does contain the keyboard parts that the Blu-ray 5.1 front channels are missing.
I'm pretty sure they're identical. It's just on 5.1 it's spread out between front and rear channels.
example S2N 2:10-2:22 stereo version has the whole rhythmic keyboard solo, but on blu-ray 5.1 it jumps between rear and front channels. The rear channels also have keyboard orchestration and whole band atmosphere/reverb/delay effect.
Untethered Angel 4:16 organ solo is there, in stereo version. On 5.1, the organ solo is missing from the front channels, and playing in the rear channels.
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I don't see how mixing down a 5.1 mix to stereo would ever sound right.
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I finally got my artbook with the bluray. The stereo LPCM track is really fantastic, I ripped it to FLAC and listen to this version now. I didn't really have an issue with the CD version but after listening to the BR stereo version I now know what people were talking about how loud the CD version is.
I will have to check out the 5.1 version at some point.
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I had a chance to listen to the 5.1 version converted to stereo and indeed we loose too many keyboard parts :)
How loud is the bluray 2.0 version compared to the cd ?
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All labels and bands really to get on the ball with this. Incredibly low effort to create and distribute a master without the compression/amplification step and let digital consumers choose.
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The Bluray stereo doesn't sound loud at all. It's the CD version that is really loud. If you compare them you'd easily be able to hear how loud the CD version is. It crackles at certain points too but I haven't heard the bluray stereo do that.
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How loud is the bluray 2.0 version compared to the cd ?
See my post on the first page of this thread for a visual representation.
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How loud is the bluray 2.0 version compared to the cd ?
See my post on the first page of this thread for a visual representation.
Indeed, I forgot it was the stereo and not the 5.1
I guess I have to find this version :)
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Those stereo files from the Blu-Ray really make a difference (quite hard to make them, but worth it). Less loud parts sound a lot quieter than on the CD version, which means the impact of more powerful parts is also bigger. I do not regret getting the artbook.
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Me too, I love cranking up the stereo rip from the bluray. It sounds so amazing and I can listen to this on repeat endlessly. The crunchy guitar riff in At Wit's End in the second part of the song is orgasmic.
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One thing I noticed with the DVD LPCM 2.0 mastering is that the mix seems to be slightly different, at least in one place. At 5:30 in At Wit's End, the synth part is much louder in the standard/CD mastering than it is in the DVD mastering. Unless this is a byproduct of the less compressed mastering?
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The Bluray stereo doesn't sound loud at all. It's the CD version that is really loud. If you compare them you'd easily be able to hear how loud the CD version is. It crackles at certain points too but I haven't heard the bluray stereo do that.
Haven't tried the Bluray, but my stereo system is orders of magnitude better than my Bluray set up which is crap.
At first I thought my stereo speakers were going because I actually hear them crackle at various points when I play the CD.