DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: SeRoX on February 21, 2019, 03:11:09 PM
-
That's one interesting interview about the vocal injury and his relationship with Mike Portnoy after the incident. Plus, he thinks they would probably do their camping thing again for the upcoming new albums.
https://www.inquisitr.com/interview/5304962/dream-theater-singer-james-labrie-new-album-tour-distance-over-time/
-
Interesting... You didn't have to give the thread a Blabbermouth title though, they'll probably steal it :lol
-
Good interview. It seems like he is a lot more open recently about...well, about a good many things.
-
Interesting... You didn't have to give the thread a Blabbermouth title though, they'll probably steal it :lol
Or a damn slideshow style article.
-
Interesting... You didn't have to give the thread a Blabbermouth title though, they'll probably steal it :lol
And I just stole it from the source. :lol
-
Interesting... You didn't have to give the thread a Blabbermouth title though, they'll probably steal it :lol
And I just stole it from the source. :lol
Ooh I didn't see that, the link title is different
-
Holy popups that website sucks!!! It nearly crashed my damn browser.
Anyway, that kind of confirms what I've always suspected. Mike was the only one interested in replacing James. If you read Lifting Shadows when they talk about the "come to jesus" meeting, Mike expressed he wanted to replace James, JP pretty much just said that James didn't seem like he was into it anymore but never actually said he also wanted to look into replacing him, Jordan said he was too new to have an opinion, and JM was not quoted in that part.
James says the rest of the guys were behind him 100%.
-
JM was not quoted in that part.
"Holy popups!"
-
Can I ask that someone copy and paste the interview here?
That website is dreadful. I had to restart my computer thanks to it locking up thanks to that site (and my iMac never locks up).
-
Without rehashing this whole story again, what percentages made up Mike's wanting to get rid of James, between his injury, his apparent lack of interest, his struggling live performances, and Mike's just wanting a new singer. I have kinda assumed the first three were excuses to justify #4.
-
I guess while we may never know exactly what went on, it always seemed apparent to me that if all the band had issue with James then he would have been gone. But we know that of course didn’t happen. However, when a time came for MP to move on, none of the band objected to it. I honestly believe MP just got to a point where he thought he was infallible and in charge of everything the band did. And that will flat out give people the shits. James always came across as respectful, and that seems evidenced in the backing he always seems to have from his band mates.
From an outsider looking in as a fan, MP always came across as a bit of a flog to me. But not knowing everything or actually know him as a person, that could be a little unfair and simply just an impression only based on what I’ve seen and read, which can also be problematic. What is great to hear is the support James had in what was a very difficult time in his life from the other members. Peace :tup
-
Can I ask that someone copy and paste the interview here?
That website is dreadful. I had to restart my computer thanks to it locking up thanks to that site (and my iMac never locks up).
Can't help. I had to restart the browser twice. I will not open this link again.
Anyway, excellent interview.
-
However, when a time came for MP to move on, none of the band objected to it.
Actually all of the band did. They tried to get him to reconsider. While I feel some and maybe all members of the band might be happier now with Mangini than they were at the end of Portnoy's tenure, I don't think any of them were happy he was leaving. Even if they were tired of him and his domineering attitude, that's a lot of uncertainty they had to work through with that void. It was not a good time for the band but in the end it ended up working out pretty damn well.
-
I guess while we may never know exactly what went on, it always seemed apparent to me that if all the band had issue with James then he would have been gone. But we know that of course didn’t happen. However, when a time came for MP to move on, none of the band objected to it. I honestly believe MP just got to a point where he thought he was infallible and in charge of everything the band did. And that will flat out give people the shits. James always came across as respectful, and that seems evidenced in the backing he always seems to have from his band mates.
From an outsider looking in as a fan, MP always came across as a bit of a flog to me. But not knowing everything or actually know him as a person, that could be a little unfair and simply just an impression only based on what I’ve seen and read, which can also be problematic. What is great to hear is the support James had in what was a very difficult time in his life from the other members. Peace :tup
In Portnoy’s defense, I think he just has (had?) a real strong vision of what he wants when he writes music. He’s probably more go with the flow with the people in Sons of Apollo/Neal Morse, but I get the impression he always felt that DT was HIS baby. So, imagine knowing exactly what you want but then having a vocalist who is unable make that vision a reality and how frustrating that might be.
-
However, when a time came for MP to move on, none of the band objected to it.
Actually all of the band did. They tried to get him to reconsider. While I feel some and maybe all members of the band might be happier now with Mangini than they were at the end of Portnoy's tenure, I don't think any of them were happy he was leaving. Even if they were tired of him and his domineering attitude, that's a lot of uncertainty they had to work through with that void. It was not a good time for the band but in the end it ended up working out pretty damn well.
Fair enough, I hadn’t read that, so interesting to hear :tup
-
Wow...that website sucks donkey balls...but that was a great read!
JLB is, as always, a consummate professional.
As far as his vocals, my fav JLB albums are 6 Degrees, FII, and Octavarium, so whatever he may or may not have lost was not something that lost me as a fan.
I remember reading that passage in Lifting Shadows (as well as tons of interviews before and since), and MP always comes off as the type of guy I hate being in bands with. Any of us who play know that guy - Mr. "We need to sound like this" guy.
James was never going to win. Bc one year, MP was all about Radiohead and Thom Yorke, another year Russell Allen is his favorite singer ever. And on and on. Which is fine, but I think for the band, sticking with the date they brought to the dance has proven to be a wise move.
As for MP...well, he quit (in 98, as mentioned on one of the DVD documentary's), and then, ten years later, he quit again. Amazing drummer, love him to death, but his opinions on JLB and his vocals are something I could not care less about.
-
what's with these fucking websites? So sick of clickbait sites. I'm sure it was a splendid article if I could open it.
-
Got through it cause I was on my tablet, but what a joke of a site. Whoever is supporting it needs to desist NOW.
Now afraid JLB’s honest comments are gonna stir up more crap.
-
Interesting. It seems like the JLB - MP friction goes a long way back. I think it even has to do with the idea of him being more and more involved vocally in his couple of last albums in DT, and wanting to take the band in another direction vocally speaking.
-
Terrible site but great interview.
It is true the entire band has to be on great terms with each other in order for that type of writing to work.
-
My adblock went crazy with that website, having to block 150+ ads, but it worked well :tup
Here's the actual quote, for those asking for it:
And it took me a good 8 to 10 years before I felt that I had come back to a place that I had been, at one time. It was a horrible experience. It created strain – primarily with myself and Mike Portnoy. Just because he was like ‘Hey man, you used to be this f**kin’ world-class singer, what’s going on?’
So him and I, we started butting heads. It created a lot of friction there. The other guys, they were just – they were behind me 100 percent. They realized what I was going through. It’s everyone’s interpretation – how you interpret something, and how you deal with it.
-
They had about a two year period where they were working on material, writing material, that ultimately became the material for ‘Images and Words.’ In fact, ‘A Change of Seasons’ was written with the intent that that was going to be on ‘Images and Words’ as well, but the label at the time said ‘absolutely not. We can’t invest in you guys doing a 24 minute opus.’
I know there's only 3 years between Images and Words and ACoS, but the sound is quite different- I do believe it sounds more in line with Awake than Images. I wonder how ACoS would sound pre-Vocal Injury and with I&W Mixing and sound. Really interesting
But we’ve gone through all of our growing pains. We’ve come to accept all of our idiosyncrasies and our OCD qualities here and there. So we respect one another and we realize that we’re all the same at the end of the day – we all have our things, we all like things a particular way, a specific way. It just seems natural now. It’s an unspoken language that seems to flow quite easily.
It was a great experience, and there were a lot of great times. We were having fun, we were able to let our hair down and just – as much as we were there for the musical end of things, we were also able to remember that we also are great friends. Having those conversations, you know. Whether it be about our families, whether it be politics, whether it be the social issues at hand around the world.
Now this is a really wholesome thing to know. :) Great interview overall
-
Sweet! some fresh controversy to distract from all this new album talk! :facepalm:
-
I guess while we may never know exactly what went on, it always seemed apparent to me that if all the band had issue with James then he would have been gone. But we know that of course didn’t happen. However, when a time came for MP to move on, none of the band objected to it. I honestly believe MP just got to a point where he thought he was infallible and in charge of everything the band did. And that will flat out give people the shits. James always came across as respectful, and that seems evidenced in the backing he always seems to have from his band mates.
From an outsider looking in as a fan, MP always came across as a bit of a flog to me. But not knowing everything or actually know him as a person, that could be a little unfair and simply just an impression only based on what I’ve seen and read, which can also be problematic. What is great to hear is the support James had in what was a very difficult time in his life from the other members. Peace :tup
In Portnoy’s defense, I think he just has (had?) a real strong vision of what he wants when he writes music. He’s probably more go with the flow with the people in Sons of Apollo/Neal Morse, but I get the impression he always felt that DT was HIS baby. So, imagine knowing exactly what you want but then having a vocalist who is unable make that vision a reality and how frustrating that might be.
Fair enough, but then you also have to have realistic expectations, particularly when you are well aware someone had been through a significant injury (vocal injury in this case). MP always seemed to ask a lot of James depending on his tastes at the time, whether it be Muse, Tool, Russell Allen etc. That may not have suited James’ vocal style all that well, but had a crack, and did a really good job vocally on tracks like Never Enough or Panic Attack, which obviously came about stylistically because MP loved Muses Absolution around a similar time.
Basically, just as MP might’ve had a hard time getting James to deliver his songwriting vision, when your tastes are constantly changing and you’re trying to reflect that, imagine the frustration from JLB’s perspective. How about writing songs to suit and highlight your own lead vocalists strengths, rather than having a mash up of ideas? Russell Allen is a phenomenal vocalist, but his Symphony X work sounds like Symphony X and is consistently his style and not Matt Bellamy, Freddie Mercury etc because they are flavour of the month. Anyway, I’ve rambled enough, all good for thought...
-
Double post
-
Sweet! some fresh controversy to distract from all this new album talk! :facepalm:
It's not a distraction. I think it's perfrct timing for the band to showcase D/T as Exhibit A of what they can do without that friction.
-
How about writing songs to suit and highlight your own lead vocalists strengths, rather than having a mash up of ideas?
Now that's just crazy talk!
-
How about writing songs to suit and highlight your own lead vocalists strengths, rather than having a mash up of ideas?
Now that's just crazy talk!
:lol
Anyway, I always had the sensation, from bits and pieces here and there through al the years, that MP felt he was "stuck" with James. Like, "We had this amazing singer, we became big because of him, and now he ruined his vocal chords and anyway I don't care for that style anymore but I / we have to keep him because he's the voice of the band. Ugh".
And as much as I love James, and I always defended and I always will, I can concede that he's no runner up for the title of "singer who nails every song, every time live", and I guess I can understand the frustration of being in a band with godlike musician but the singer every now and then fails to live up to the expectation, but still.... damn, it's James. Feeling to be "stuck" with him is like feeling to be stuck with a hot supermodel only because by now you prefer blondes instead of brunettes!
-
I like Mike but to me he seemed like a control freak. I remember when Myung mentioned the way they would get together and write (on the Dream and Day Reunite DVD) and Portnoy basically shut him down. I don't think he meant anything by it..it was just his personality but I felt tension (imagined or not) just by listening to the exchange. Also it seemed that he wanted the band to become heavier and heavier and wanted James to have more edge to his voice. The terrible cookie monster vocals he provided could have been his way of slighting James. I have no inside info but as a fan that is the way that I perceived things.
-
That's one interesting interview about the vocal injury and his relationship with Mike Portnoy after the incident. Plus, he thinks they would probably do their camping thing again for the upcoming new albums.
https://www.inquisitr.com/interview/5304962/dream-theater-singer-james-labrie-new-album-tour-distance-over-time/
Great interview. James is a class act, and really explained himself well. The tension between him and Mike...all I hope is that at some point, the Pirate and MP get together and just hash it out. They spent so long together, and life's too short.
-
My adblock went crazy with that website, having to block 150+ ads, but it worked well :tup
Here's the actual quote, for those asking for it:
And it took me a good 8 to 10 years before I felt that I had come back to a place that I had been, at one time. It was a horrible experience. It created strain – primarily with myself and Mike Portnoy. Just because he was like ‘Hey man, you used to be this f**kin’ world-class singer, what’s going on?’
So him and I, we started butting heads. It created a lot of friction there. The other guys, they were just – they were behind me 100 percent. They realized what I was going through. It’s everyone’s interpretation – how you interpret something, and how you deal with it.
Thanks for posting it. :tup :tup
Anyway, I always had the sensation, from bits and pieces here and there through al the years, that MP felt he was "stuck" with James. Like, "We had this amazing singer, we became big because of him, and now he ruined his vocal chords and anyway I don't care for that style anymore but I / we have to keep him because he's the voice of the band. Ugh".
And as much as I love James, and I always defended and I always will, I can concede that he's no runner up for the title of "singer who nails every song, every time live", and I guess I can understand the frustration of being in a band with godlike musician but the singer every now and then fails to live up to the expectation, but still.... damn, it's James. Feeling to be "stuck" with him is like feeling to be stuck with a hot supermodel only because by now you prefer blondes instead of brunettes!
The bolded was always my impression, and he all but said it once as well (cannot remember the exact quote, but it was in the mid 00's, I think).
And I agree with your take on JLB. His live voice has always been a mixed bag for me, but he is usually so darn good in the studio that I can overlook the live stuff; I listen to the studio material 99.9999% of the time anyway (the exception being a handful of songs where a live version is my go-to for it - The Killing Hand, Raise the Knife, etc.).
-
I also agree with what MirrorMask said. I have always felt that way. It was like MP was stuck in a Jamesavarium. Which I thought was such irony.
-
Great interview. James is a class act, and really explained himself well. The tension between him and Mike...all I hope is that at some point, the Pirate and MP get together and just hash it out. They spent so long together, and life's too short.
I honestly wouldn't hold your breath on that one, but things have a way either mending themselves over the years or never coming back together. It really just depends on how James still feels about things. JM too.
-
Just because [MP] was like ‘Hey man, you used to be this f**kin’ world-class singer, what’s going on?’
That is not an unfair stance MP took. No one likes to see a co-worker or employee's work quality drop. It affects everyone around them, it affects the business, and if they are friends, there is an added element of personal concern. I would hope that if band member X starts to drop off in terms of performance and/or effort that the other guys will find away to address it (hopefully by rallying around him and getting him back to where he needs to be, as it appears happened here).
This is just a more complex situation if MP was feeling "stuck" with James, as someone noted, while his musical interests were changing. Bands can't function saying "ok, we're gonna play country on this album, Chuck, sorry you're out, we brought in a guitarist who can play banjo. We're going to need now since our musical direction has changed."
-
We just need the names in the thread title in all caps and then it'll be a Blabbermouth title.
-
Just because [MP] was like ‘Hey man, you used to be this f**kin’ world-class singer, what’s going on?’
That is not an unfair stance MP took. No one likes to see a co-worker or employee's work quality drop. It affects everyone around them, it affects the business, and if they are friends, there is an added element of personal concern. I would hope that if band member X starts to drop off in terms of performance and/or effort that the other guys will find away to address it (hopefully by rallying around him and getting him back to where he needs to be, as it appears happened here).
Which is why Petrucci's response was perfect. "Hey man, you don't seem into it. Your performance is suffering. Mike's being kind of a turd about this but I have to admit, you're not bringing your A-game and it doesn't seem like you're even trying to. I love you, man. Can you try a little harder?"
"John, nobody has put it to me like that before. I'm ready to kickass again! *high fives* Let's go play some mini-golf."
-
His voice changed after the injury. It took him a long time to get somewhere close to where he was before. I saw them on the the end of the SDOIT tour and he sounded like he was getting back close to where he was before. We saw it on the Score DVD (overdubs or not). I think I remember a JLB interview where he was told to not sing for a long period of time after the injury but they had shows scheduled and he did it anyway. That says a lot about dedication to the band and the fans.
All of these great, hi range, opera style singers change over time. Dickinson, Tate, etc. Can't do what they used to do. Some of them sound awful live these days. I feel that JLB has done a good job to reinvent himself in a way, especially on The Astonishing and now the new D/T.
-
I don't think MP is one to let things go. I have yet to hear him mention Mangini by name or to send good vibes or good wishes his way.
-
His voice changed after the injury. It took him a long time to get somewhere close to where he was before. I saw them on the the end of the SDOIT tour and he sounded like he was getting back close to where he was before. We saw it on the Score DVD (overdubs or not). I think I remember a JLB interview where he was told to not sing for a long period of time after the injury but they had shows scheduled and he did it anyway. That says a lot about dedication to the band and the fans.
I wonder what would have happened if LaBrie had put his foot down saying "sorry, it's my carreer at stake, I just can't sing for six months". I understand the vital need of a young band to tour and affirm themselves, but would it have been so damaging and carrer ending for DT to postpone a tour? and what would have the other guys done if James refused to sing? fire him on the spot (after having just lost a founding member) or wait around for the singer that helped to made them famous?
-
Just because [MP] was like ‘Hey man, you used to be this f**kin’ world-class singer, what’s going on?’
That is not an unfair stance MP took. No one likes to see a co-worker or employee's work quality drop. It affects everyone around them, it affects the business, and if they are friends, there is an added element of personal concern. I would hope that if band member X starts to drop off in terms of performance and/or effort that the other guys will find away to address it (hopefully by rallying around him and getting him back to where he needs to be, as it appears happened here).
While James has had his drop in performance, I also feel like Mike Portnoy's creativity has dropped as well. I think, everyone would admit that by now, we can all guess/know what MP is about to do within the context of a song. I distinctly remember that when I was younger, I read an MP interview in which he was asked about Neal Peart taking drum lessons from Freddie Gruber well into his career and he said that he might consider doing something like that "after the kids go to college" and within that interview (mid-2000s), he admitted that he does not practice like he used to and his routine morphed into something else. I remember this because after reading it, I had an argument with my drum teacher and at the time I used Mike Portnoy as an excuse for not practicing properly.
All the other instrumental members of DT are known for their practice chops and I feel that post-ToT, they were held down by MP as well. JLB excluded, MP was the least instrumentally capable member of DT, I think MM leveled the playing field a fair bit. (I have my issues with his sound but I cannot deny that the guy is a beast on drums.)
Before someone tells me that there are different styles of drumming, I'm well aware of that but that doesn't change the fact that there are certain things one must do to keep up when you play with 3 of the most talented musicians ever in a band.
-
His voice changed after the injury. It took him a long time to get somewhere close to where he was before. I saw them on the the end of the SDOIT tour and he sounded like he was getting back close to where he was before. We saw it on the Score DVD (overdubs or not). I think I remember a JLB interview where he was told to not sing for a long period of time after the injury but they had shows scheduled and he did it anyway. That says a lot about dedication to the band and the fans.
I wonder what would have happened if LaBrie had put his foot down saying "sorry, it's my carreer at stake, I just can't sing for six months". I understand the vital need of a young band to tour and affirm themselves, but would it have been so damaging and carrer ending for DT to postpone a tour? and what would have the other guys done if James refused to sing? fire him on the spot (after having just lost a founding member) or wait around for the singer that helped to made them famous?
Career suicide for DT probably. They had already lost a lot of momentum considering Awake was already a huge drop off in terms of sales. Not touring for another 6 months, they may have dropped off the map (and be broke).
-
Just because [MP] was like ‘Hey man, you used to be this f**kin’ world-class singer, what’s going on?’
That is not an unfair stance MP took. No one likes to see a co-worker or employee's work quality drop. It affects everyone around them, it affects the business, and if they are friends, there is an added element of personal concern. I would hope that if band member X starts to drop off in terms of performance and/or effort that the other guys will find away to address it (hopefully by rallying around him and getting him back to where he needs to be, as it appears happened here).
While James has had his drop in performance, I also feel like Mike Portnoy's creativity has dropped as well. I think, everyone would admit that by now, we can all guess/know what MP is about to do within the context of a song. I distinctly remember that when I was younger, I read an MP interview in which he was asked about Neal Peart taking drum lessons from Freddie Gruber well into his career and he said that he might consider doing something like that "after the kids go to college" and within that interview (mid-2000s), he admitted that he does not practice like he used to and his routine morphed into something else. I remember this because after reading it, I had an argument with my drum teacher and at the time I used Mike Portnoy as an excuse for not practicing properly.
All the other instrumental members of DT are known for their practice chops and I feel that post-ToT, they were held down by MP as well. JLB excluded, MP was the least instrumentally capable member of DT, I think MM leveled the playing field a fair bit. (I have my issues with his sound but I cannot deny that the guy is a beast on drums.)
Before someone tells me that there are different styles of drumming, I'm well aware of that but that doesn't change the fact that there are certain things one must do to keep up when you play with 3 of the most talented musicians ever in a band.
I am not sure about creativity but skill level for sure. He is a great drummer but his bag of tricks was empty and getting predictable.
-
I don't think MP is one to let things go. I have yet to hear him mention Mangini by name or to send good vibes or good wishes his way.
That hasn't happened. They were good friends before the split, but since MP left and MM joined there hasn't been a single positive comment made in public from Portnoy about Mangini.
Around the time Neal Morse's TSOAD was released, MP was asked about DT in an interview and, when talking about Mangini, he refered to him as "their drummer".
-
His voice changed after the injury. It took him a long time to get somewhere close to where he was before. I saw them on the the end of the SDOIT tour and he sounded like he was getting back close to where he was before. We saw it on the Score DVD (overdubs or not). I think I remember a JLB interview where he was told to not sing for a long period of time after the injury but they had shows scheduled and he did it anyway. That says a lot about dedication to the band and the fans.
I wonder what would have happened if LaBrie had put his foot down saying "sorry, it's my carreer at stake, I just can't sing for six months". I understand the vital need of a young band to tour and affirm themselves, but would it have been so damaging and carrer ending for DT to postpone a tour? and what would have the other guys done if James refused to sing? fire him on the spot (after having just lost a founding member) or wait around for the singer that helped to made them famous?
If they wouldn't stop for a year for a founding member and core participant, after they achieved a modicum of success, then yeah, I think it would have been too much to ask for them to stand down for 6 months to a year for their then second newest member.
-
I also feel like Mike Portnoy's creativity has dropped as well. I think, everyone would admit that by now, we can all guess/know what MP is about to do within the context of a song. I distinctly remember that when I was younger, I read an MP interview in which he was asked about Neal Peart taking drum lessons from Freddie Gruber well into his career and he said that he might consider doing something like that "after the kids go to college" and within that interview (mid-2000s), he admitted that he does not practice like he used to and his routine morphed into something else. I remember this because after reading it, I had an argument with my drum teacher and at the time I used Mike Portnoy as an excuse for not practicing properly.
Maybe it's because I'm not a drummer, but that's not my experience. One, it's not any more "predictable" than any of the other members of the band, and two, he's still a "must listen" musician in my book. Some of his work in Transatlantic and Flying Colors is still stimulating and fresh to me. Maybe a little less so in Neal Morse, but that's also not his gig, so there's that.
Also, I don't think the "practice" quote necessarily says what people seem to want to interpret it as; he doesn't say he doesn't practice, period (there's video from the time after that interview that clearly shows him practicing) but that he doesn't practice LIKE HE USED TO. I would be stunned if you asked guys with 30 years in if they practiced the same way and more than a fraction said "yes", including others in the band (except for Myung). Is it really a valid knock that he's not pushing to be the fastest drummer on the planet like Mangini? I know for me, I connect far more to Portnoy's playing than I do Mangini's; not to say Mangini is bad, but it's preference, and I don't think that entitles me to say some of the things about Mangini that are said about Portnoy.
-
I also feel like Mike Portnoy's creativity has dropped as well.
I can't stand the hi-hat fills anymore. :lol
-
I like the familiarity of MP's fills, he doesn't need to do anything else. it'd be like asking Angus Young to learn the harmonic minor scale :p
-
I also feel like Mike Portnoy's creativity has dropped as well.
I can't stand the hi-hat fills anymore. :lol
Or the 16th note accented tom rolls.
-
I like the familiarity of MP's fills, he doesn't need to do anything else. it'd be like asking Angus Young to learn the harmonic minor scale :p
Respectfully, I disagree. Musicians are professionals for a reason. Saying that he doesn't need to do anything else is like saying IBM perfected the computer with those room sized machines and we don't need any further development. I for one, don't want an album with the same old bag of tricks. This isn't just about MP, any musician could fall into this trap.
-
Candid interview.
Website sucked.
-
I like the familiarity of MP's fills, he doesn't need to do anything else. it'd be like asking Angus Young to learn the harmonic minor scale :p
Respectfully, I disagree. Musicians are professionals for a reason. Saying that he doesn't need to do anything else is like saying IBM perfected the computer with those room sized machines and we don't need any further development. I for one, don't want an album with the same old bag of tricks. This isn't just about MP, any musician could fall into this trap.
But "professional musician" doesn't just mean one thing (i.e. advance the instrument as far as is humanly possible). Paul McCartney and Bruce Springsteen are two of the greatest "professional musicians" the world has ever known, and their stock in trade isn't pushing the boundary of the bass and/or acoustic guitar. It's in connecting us to truths we didn't know we needed connecting to. I get it, Mike's music isn't really that "voice of a generation" type music, but he is involved in furthering a viewpoint, such that it is. If a hi-hat fill or a 16th note accented tom fill (WTF?) is how that's done, then so be it. It's ultimately HIS artistic choice. As a "professional musician", I'm listening to hear HIS choices, not the ones I would have made had I the technical proficiency.
-
It's strange that MP is held to such a standard.
JM is a fantastic bassist. Hasn't really developed or done much in....decades. No one minds.
JLB hasn't changed his approach much or learned new and amazing techniques. No one minds.
I think it's just because when MM joined the band, one of the big things was that he was a teacher and so forth, and MP didn't practice much.
-
Although, myself personally, when it comes to recording the vocals – I always do that in a remote location. Usually up around Toronto. The rest of the guys, they record it at the studio. That’s just the way I like to work. Myself and the engineer – and leave me alone! [laughter] You know?
Did LaBrie record his vocals in Canada for this album too?
-
Although, myself personally, when it comes to recording the vocals – I always do that in a remote location. Usually up around Toronto. The rest of the guys, they record it at the studio. That’s just the way I like to work. Myself and the engineer – and leave me alone! [laughter] You know?
Did LaBrie record his vocals in Canada for this album too?
Yes, and personally, I believe it's why there's a huge disconnect between the vocals and the music. It wasn't noticeable on the previous MM Era albums, but it jumps out on this one.
-
It's strange that MP is held to such a standard.
JM is a fantastic bassist. Hasn't really developed or done much in....decades. No one minds.
JLB hasn't changed his approach much or learned new and amazing techniques. No one minds.
I think it's just because when MM joined the band, one of the big things was that he was a teacher and so forth, and MP didn't practice much.
I think the problem here is that, because MP is so prolific, he's in A TON of records that all feature the same bag of tricks. He's playing in so many records/bands every year that you end up with a lot of samey sounding stuff, even though it's a different band playing. Couple that with the fact that he's in 3 bands with Neal Morse and 2 with Billy Sheehan... that blurs the lines even more.
Also, there's a big difference between playing your instrument and actually practicing. If you sit with your instrument and just noodle around or tackle a couple songs you know just to keep them fresh, you haven't practiced, you just played. Most real "pro" musicians, session guys and such, will tell you that real practice is needed if you want to get better at it. Practice is playing something you can't do untill you master it, that's where the phrase "if you are playing, it sounds good; if you're practicing, it sounds bad" comes in.
I have no doubt guys like JP, JM, JR and MM all PRACTICE their craft, and that's why they keep progressing as musicians. MP, on the other hand, seems to be the kind of guy who is more interested in getting more music out than actually crafting art, and that's why he basically comes up with drum parts in the moment and moves on to the next thing. Surely, the guy can play, but even he would tell you he hasn't properly practiced in years, maybe decades.
-
It's strange that MP is held to such a standard.
JM is a fantastic bassist. Hasn't really developed or done much in....decades. No one minds.
JLB hasn't changed his approach much or learned new and amazing techniques. No one minds.
I think it's just because when MM joined the band, one of the big things was that he was a teacher and so forth, and MP didn't practice much.
I disagree on JLB. I feel over the albums he’s had a great go at everything that was asked of him - from MP’s changing tastes to sound angrier, sound more like Muse etc. I think James has adjusted his voice as he’s gotten older to still sound excellent on all studio albums, and whether fans liked the album or not, his work on TA having different tones for different characters was exceptional, and I think he added a really fresh element and performed it wonderfully. So I definitely feel JLB had indeed offered new elements across the board.
As for MM - I just flat out prefer his drumming over MP, particularly in his ability to compliment a song, the other musicians etc, but can go technical and bar shit crazy where necessary. But that is completely a matter of preference - many feel the other way and that’s cool.
-
Weird double posts guys, apologies
-
I think the "let's get in the studio and get it done" thing is just a state of mind. Some guys want to get in there and do a million takes before getting it just right, and some guys want to play it once or twice and go with that spontaneous take. Neither way is right or wrong; it's just a matter of which method you prefer.
It reminds me of the XTC story I heard about when they recorded Skylarking and Todd Rungren was brought in to produce. XTC main songwriter/singer Andy Partridge is one of those guys who wants to squeeze everything he can out of you with dozens of takes to get it just right, while Rungren had the "let's play it once or twice and go with the best take we get" approach, and they butted heads over that (and for other reasons as well).
-
Double post
-
Filmmakers and actors can also vary wildly in how they approach a scene. Some like to have some spontaneity, and end up nailing it in a couple takes. Others rehearse and slowly find their way through several takes. Whatever results in the best outcome. I recall hearing how Brando would take forever on a scene, going through 87 awful takes, to get to the 88th amazing one.
-
It's strange that MP is held to such a standard.
JM is a fantastic bassist. Hasn't really developed or done much in....decades. No one minds.
JLB hasn't changed his approach much or learned new and amazing techniques. No one minds.
I think it's just because when MM joined the band, one of the big things was that he was a teacher and so forth, and MP didn't practice much.
No, it has nothing to do with MM being a teacher and MP not practicing. It's more of MM manages to still surprise listeners. ADTOE showed a more complex orchestration compared to what he did with Vai and Annihilator. DT12, he developed a new technique playing two hi-hats / rides at once, heard in TLG and STR, and continues using in D/T in songs like S2n. Of course there's IT that has several bag of tricks. Then in TA, he surprises with creative choices like the blast beats in a swing section, the simultaneous two snare rolls to mimick a marching band, and the odd meters in The Walking Shadow. Then in this new record, so many things I haven't heard from Mangini before.
I disagree with your statement about Myung and JLB. In D/T, Myung sounds really reinvigorated, with riffs like S2n. Even the simple stuff, like the bass playing in the piano break of BW is a pleasant surprise. And JLB, he managed to surprise us in TA, with styles we haven't heard from him before.
I guess the question is, when is the last time you were surprised by MP's playing? Personally, it is way back ToT.
-
Nothing MP does surprises me. Nothing Myung, JLB, or even MM does really surprises me either.
-
I don't think MP is one to let things go. I have yet to hear him mention Mangini by name or to send good vibes or good wishes his way.
He also loves to say how he doesn't hold grudges, but he totally does and it's so obvious. One example was the "Special no thanks to Terry Brown" credit.
I like the familiarity of MP's fills, he doesn't need to do anything else. it'd be like asking Angus Young to learn the harmonic minor scale :p
Can't compare apples to aardvarks. If you play the kind of music DT plays and the fans listen to, then you'd better make it challenging and exciting. Angus Young doesn't need to improve or enhance anything, it's not what he and his band play, and you can probably imagine what would happen if ACDC suddenly went prog on their next album... white trash everywhere would be burning their school uniforms in the streets.
-
Nothing MP does surprises me. Nothing Myung, JLB, or even MM does really surprises me either.
Who surprises you?
-
I guess the question is, when is the last time you were surprised by MP's playing? Personally, it is way back ToT.
September 2010.
Really surprised me.
-
Nothing MP does surprises me. Nothing Myung, JLB, or even MM does really surprises me either.
Who surprises you?
Hmmm. JP to some extent. Pain of Salvation for sure. Not a whole lot of artists at this point. But, then again, I don’t need them to. It’s a nice bonus, but not a necessity.
-
Nothing MP does surprises me. Nothing Myung, JLB, or even MM does really surprises me either.
Who surprises you?
Hmmm. JP to some extent. Pain of Salvation for sure. Not a whole lot of artists at this point. But, then again, I don’t need them to. It’s a nice bonus, but not a necessity.
Personally, I like it when artists are brave and try different things. I didn't expect the next step in Steven Wilson's solo career to be the To the bone. I don't even like the album. But I like his attitude.
-
100% agree (except I love To the Bone). Steven Wilson is another great example.
I like it too. But, like I said, I don’t require it.
Also there’s a difference between music or a whole band being samey, and the drummer.
-
I like the familiarity of MP's fills, he doesn't need to do anything else. it'd be like asking Angus Young to learn the harmonic minor scale :p
Respectfully, I disagree. Musicians are professionals for a reason. Saying that he doesn't need to do anything else is like saying IBM perfected the computer with those room sized machines and we don't need any further development. I for one, don't want an album with the same old bag of tricks. This isn't just about MP, any musician could fall into this trap.
Um, the thing is that the tech industry is completely different in terms of how competition works and how people assess the quality of a product. While technical capabilities or musicians can play into how people perceive the music they write, we have countless examples proving that musicianship and technical proficiency has next to nothing to do with how well musicians do professionally. Someone mentioned Angus Young above and yeah AC/DC are a perfect example. You may say that in the context of this genre it shouldn't be like that but then the discussion would shift to what being "progressive" really means, which in itself is also very subjective.
On the other hand, if your company produces room-sized computers while your competition produces smartphones, you'll be out of business before you can say "Mike Portnoy".
-
It's strange that MP is held to such a standard.
JM is a fantastic bassist. Hasn't really developed or done much in....decades. No one minds.
JLB hasn't changed his approach much or learned new and amazing techniques. No one minds.
I've seen plenty of criticism of these guys for not bringing anything fresh to the table. This has been the case for years.
In D/T, Myung sounds really reinvigorated, with riffs like S2n. Even the simple stuff, like the bass playing in the piano break of BW is a pleasant surprise.
I find it funny how many people are saying stuff like "Myung is BACK! Listen to S2N!" - it's one riff, guys! It's cool, but come on - I don't find Myung's playing on the rest of the album particularly different from anything in the past few years.
-
Although, myself personally, when it comes to recording the vocals – I always do that in a remote location. Usually up around Toronto. The rest of the guys, they record it at the studio. That’s just the way I like to work. Myself and the engineer – and leave me alone! [laughter] You know?
Did LaBrie record his vocals in Canada for this album too?
Yes, and personally, I believe it's why there's a huge disconnect between the vocals and the music. It wasn't noticeable on the previous MM Era albums, but it jumps out on this one.
Not really. JLB was there from the inception. He knew what melodies to work with and what he needed to accomplish. Basically, he worked with JP and JR on the melodies and when they figured the melodies were set, they left JLB to finish the rest on his own. Which is having trust in your singer.
I honestly feel no disconnect at all. Its refreshing to hear JLB have total control over how he wants his vocals. Instead of having to be frustrated with the "dry man".
-
No, no. It isn't so much James or his vocals., or the melodies for that matter, even though I don't believe they're that strong. It just sounds/feels like the vocals were recorded elsewhere. The way they are added on top, to me, doesn't really jive, and holds the whole thing back a bit.
-
No, no. It isn't so much James or his vocals., or the melodies for that matter, even though I don't believe they're that strong. It just sounds/feels like the vocals were recorded elsewhere. The way they are added on top, to me, doesn't really jive, and holds the whole thing back a bit.
They have been recorded in Canada on every album post-Portnoy.
-
Oh I know that. And while I always thought the vocals sat back a bit on some of ADTOE, I've never had a problem with them. I just don't think they're right in the mix.
-
In D/T, Myung sounds really reinvigorated, with riffs like S2n. Even the simple stuff, like the bass playing in the piano break of BW is a pleasant surprise.
I find it funny how many people are saying stuff like "Myung is BACK! Listen to S2N!" - it's one riff, guys! It's cool, but come on - I don't find Myung's playing on the rest of the album particularly different from anything in the past few years.
His bass playing in R137 feels fresh to me. How about his interplay with JP in Barstool Warrior?
-
I think James recording vocals outside DT is a right direction. With the exception of TA, ADTEO and DT12's vocals sound amazing live. Because James himself knows his limit and what's right when it comes to live approach. I especially love BAI and Outcry live vocal performance over the years. He shines on them.
Other thing I am not sure is that if James records vocals phase by phase or verse by verse. It effects the live quality.
-
I have a bit the impression James was left to his own devices when coming up with vocal melodies for this album, and while he is very much at home doing that for harmonically rich sections (he was the clear MVP on TA), I think he feels lost doing so for harder, more metal sections. Prime example for me is R137. During the verses he follows the main riff in the background; it sorta, kinda works, but when he gets to the end of the verse ("should he listen"), he keeps following the riff and just kinda screams it an octave above. What works on guitar, IMO doesn't work at all on vocals.
When the bridge comes around, I then feel he hides behind that heavy vocal effect because once again, he didn't quite know what to do.
-
Although, myself personally, when it comes to recording the vocals – I always do that in a remote location. Usually up around Toronto. The rest of the guys, they record it at the studio. That’s just the way I like to work. Myself and the engineer – and leave me alone! [laughter] You know?
Did LaBrie record his vocals in Canada for this album too?
Yes, and personally, I believe it's why there's a huge disconnect between the vocals and the music. It wasn't noticeable on the previous MM Era albums, but it jumps out on this one.
Not really. JLB was there from the inception. He knew what melodies to work with and what he needed to accomplish. Basically, he worked with JP and JR on the melodies and when they figured the melodies were set, they left JLB to finish the rest on his own. Which is having trust in your singer.
I honestly feel no disconnect at all. Its refreshing to hear JLB have total control over how he wants his vocals. Instead of having to be frustrated with the "dry man".
Yeah I really don't hear this disconnection either. I'll have to pay more attention to it when I listen to the album again.
-
Although, myself personally, when it comes to recording the vocals – I always do that in a remote location. Usually up around Toronto. The rest of the guys, they record it at the studio. That’s just the way I like to work. Myself and the engineer – and leave me alone! [laughter] You know?
Did LaBrie record his vocals in Canada for this album too?
Yes, and personally, I believe it's why there's a huge disconnect between the vocals and the music. It wasn't noticeable on the previous MM Era albums, but it jumps out on this one.
Not really. JLB was there from the inception. He knew what melodies to work with and what he needed to accomplish. Basically, he worked with JP and JR on the melodies and when they figured the melodies were set, they left JLB to finish the rest on his own. Which is having trust in your singer.
I honestly feel no disconnect at all. Its refreshing to hear JLB have total control over how he wants his vocals. Instead of having to be frustrated with the "dry man".
But that begs the question: If during recording, Myung comes up with a part and Petrooch says "Johnny M, that's not working for me, can you come up with something else?" and they brainstorm, and Jordan says "hey, what about this?" and doodles a bass line sketch that John then takes and runs with, that's the sum being greater than it's parts. If James sings something, it's possible that the band doesn't have that input under the current process. It's one thing to tweak in real time, it's another entirely to say "okay, well, vocals are all done, studio's broken down, but there's a line in the middle of [specific song] that's not really working for me". Oh well.
-
So many what-ifs
-
Isn't that what happened with the "day after day, night after night" section? The music was baked in already, and they couldn't make the vocals work.
-
I don't think that's how it works - I don't think James is going up to Canada with no melodies and he comes up with them all then and there. In the past, DT has said that the lyricist is usually the one to come up with the vocal melodies for a particular song. I'm not sure if it still works that way, but I am fairly certain that the melodies would have been worked out by the band when they were all together. Then James records them in Canada. But it also isn't as if he records them all first without anyone else hearing them. I remember that for The Astonishing, JP was very involved in the process, even though it was remotely for most of it. It might have been different this time, but I'd be surprised if he wasn't just as involved.
-
JLB has such a unique voice in terms of sound. Could they have found a sound-a-like replacement? Maybe. Who knows? But I think replacing LaBrie would have been detrimental to the band's longevity. That would be 3 different keyboardists and 3 different singers in under 10 years. Singers are the face of the band, even though we considered MP & JP as the leaders then. Hate to say it, but hardly anyone goes to a concert to see a drummer.
-
And yet, if it would have happened, the new singer's debut would have been 2003's Train of Thought, 16 years ago, and he would have been by now at his 8th album, while James' tenure would have been 10 years and 5 albums. The hypothetical replacement would have been DT's "ultimate" singer, just like Jordan is the definitive keyboard player, but as Kevin Moore is still remembered as the "classic" keyboardist, James would have always been the classic singer.
I'm 1001% happy he still is however :biggrin:
-
I'm 1001% happy he still is however :biggrin:
As am I. I'm glad JLB isn't trying to be what he used to be. He can't hit those high notes anymore. That's ok. His style has changed and he's sort of reinvented himself. When he sings we still know it's him.
-
I don't think that's how it works - I don't think James is going up to Canada with no melodies and he comes up with them all then and there. In the past, DT has said that the lyricist is usually the one to come up with the vocal melodies for a particular song. I'm not sure if it still works that way, but I am fairly certain that the melodies would have been worked out by the band when they were all together. Then James records them in Canada. But it also isn't as if he records them all first without anyone else hearing them. I remember that for The Astonishing, JP was very involved in the process, even though it was remotely for most of it. It might have been different this time, but I'd be surprised if he wasn't just as involved.
Yeah, I think some here are making too much of James recording in Canada. My understanding of the process is that by the time James goes to record vocals, the melodies and the lyrics have already been written. So he's just tracking. They are also probably sending files down to JP and Ben (in this album's case) as they go. So if JP as the producer isn't liking the direction of a section of vocals, I'm sure he would be able to make suggestions. This also has nothing to do with how James sounds in the mix. Regardless of whether he's tracking in Canada or New York or Italy or Russia, he's tracking his vocals by himself in a vocal booth into a mic. That doesn't change how his voice fits in the mix or sounds in the mix, that's determined during the mixing stage, not the tracking stage.
-
I don't think that's how it works - I don't think James is going up to Canada with no melodies and he comes up with them all then and there. In the past, DT has said that the lyricist is usually the one to come up with the vocal melodies for a particular song. I'm not sure if it still works that way, but I am fairly certain that the melodies would have been worked out by the band when they were all together. Then James records them in Canada. But it also isn't as if he records them all first without anyone else hearing them. I remember that for The Astonishing, JP was very involved in the process, even though it was remotely for most of it. It might have been different this time, but I'd be surprised if he wasn't just as involved.
Yeah, I think some here are making too much of James recording in Canada. My understanding of the process is that by the time James goes to record vocals, the melodies and the lyrics have already been written. So he's just tracking. They are also probably sending files down to JP and Ben (in this album's case) as they go. So if JP as the producer isn't liking the direction of a section of vocals, I'm sure he would be able to make suggestions. This also has nothing to do with how James sounds in the mix. Regardless of whether he's tracking in Canada or New York or Italy or Russia, he's tracking his vocals by himself in a vocal booth into a mic. That doesn't change how his voice fits in the mix or sounds in the mix, that's determined during the mixing stage, not the tracking stage.
All of this. Good post. He's not by himself tracking (he has the engineer who works with him -- I can't spell or pronounce his name), but your point still stands.
-
I don't think that's how it works - I don't think James is going up to Canada with no melodies and he comes up with them all then and there. In the past, DT has said that the lyricist is usually the one to come up with the vocal melodies for a particular song. I'm not sure if it still works that way, but I am fairly certain that the melodies would have been worked out by the band when they were all together. Then James records them in Canada. But it also isn't as if he records them all first without anyone else hearing them. I remember that for The Astonishing, JP was very involved in the process, even though it was remotely for most of it. It might have been different this time, but I'd be surprised if he wasn't just as involved.
Yeah, I think some here are making too much of James recording in Canada. My understanding of the process is that by the time James goes to record vocals, the melodies and the lyrics have already been written. So he's just tracking. They are also probably sending files down to JP and Ben (in this album's case) as they go. So if JP as the producer isn't liking the direction of a section of vocals, I'm sure he would be able to make suggestions. This also has nothing to do with how James sounds in the mix. Regardless of whether he's tracking in Canada or New York or Italy or Russia, he's tracking his vocals by himself in a vocal booth into a mic. That doesn't change how his voice fits in the mix or sounds in the mix, that's determined during the mixing stage, not the tracking stage.
All of this. Good post. He's not by himself tracking (he has the engineer who works with him -- I can't spell or pronounce his name), but your point still stands.
Right Rich engineered his vocals. When I said by himself, I just meant no other band members were present.
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
-
Not sure why those sessions would be singled out. I'm not aware of anything out of the ordinary that took place there. ???
-
Not to mention that he states in the documentary how he hadn't had so much fun recording since Awake.
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
-
JLB is way better than he has been in the past. You can tell he's feeling more comfortable with his voice. Look at his solo albums recently, and the guest spots he's been offered. After the Astonishing and Impermanent Resonance, That sold me on JLB's vocals, even live.
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
Your thinking of him doing the "Dry Man".
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
Your thinking of him doing the "Dry Man".
... Eh?
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
Ah I remember that!
James: Giiiive yourself uuuuup to meeee
John: Everything was good except for the "give yourself, and the me".
James: what the fuck
-
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
I didn't see it that way (other than the MP being douchey part). James has said (possibly on that very DVD though I could be wrong) that he works with the songwriter to come up with the vocal style/phrasing/etc... that is best suited to each song and its lyrics. He seems generally open to direction and criticism (outside of that down period of his career and conflicts with one former band member).
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
Ah I remember that!
James: Giiiive yourself uuuuup to meeee
John: Everything was good except for the "give yourself, and the me".
James: what the fuck
If you are talking about the SC video, you are reading WAY too much into it that isn't there.
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
Ah I remember that!
James: Giiiive yourself uuuuup to meeee
John: Everything was good except for the "give yourself, and the me".
James: what the fuck
:lol I remember this happening, but IIRC, James also said at the end of the documentary that SC was the album he had the most fun recording since Awake, so he still enjoyed those sessions after all.
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
Ah I remember that!
James: Giiiive yourself uuuuup to meeee
John: Everything was good except for the "give yourself, and the me".
James: what the fuck
If you are talking about the SC video, you are reading WAY too much into it that isn't there.
LaBrie kinda joked around about it when he said something like, "Any other helpful comments guys?" but at first he didn't seem very amused.
-
Oh I remember that documentary, geez there were so many funny moments in that!
The one I can think of is Portnoy saying "Jordan says he's got a dirty organ that he wants to show us, I told him he should see a doctor about that" :lol
-
Great interview. I saw this yesterday on Facebook and it had the same headline. Sad that they use that as the headline when it is such a good interview and the Portnoy thing was such a small part of it.
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
Who said the melody was better? Point being, that's the point I was trying to make, that all of this is at the whim of the artists, and no one else. When one artist is 1500 miles away by himself, you WILL have a different outcome if three of the band members are standing around the vocal booth discussing what the out put should be.
You all know that "having the notes" isn't the same as "artistic expression". "Paranoid" by Tony Iommi doesn't sound anything like "Paranoid" with Randy Rhoads, or "Paranoid" by Zakk Wylde (and none are "better", just different interpretations). I think, likely, the truth is somewhere in between, but nonetheless, it IS a dynamic, and it's unarguable that the dynamic isn't the same. Some might like that, some might not. For me, I got into DT because of James, and I'm still along for the ride (see what I did there?) because of him, so none of this is a knock on him per se.
But it IS different, in my opinion.
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
Who said the melody was better? Point being, that's the point I was trying to make, that all of this is at the whim of the artists, and no one else. When one artist is 1500 miles away by himself, you WILL have a different outcome if three of the band members are standing around the vocal booth discussing what the out put should be.
You all know that "having the notes" isn't the same as "artistic expression". "Paranoid" by Tony Iommi doesn't sound anything like "Paranoid" with Randy Rhoads, or "Paranoid" by Zakk Wylde (and none are "better", just different interpretations). I think, likely, the truth is somewhere in between, but nonetheless, it IS a dynamic, and it's unarguable that the dynamic isn't the same. Some might like that, some might not. For me, I got into DT because of James, and I'm still along for the ride (see what I did there?) because of him, so none of this is a knock on him per se.
But it IS different, in my opinion.
I did.
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
Who said the melody was better? Point being, that's the point I was trying to make, that all of this is at the whim of the artists, and no one else. When one artist is 1500 miles away by himself, you WILL have a different outcome if three of the band members are standing around the vocal booth discussing what the out put should be.
You all know that "having the notes" isn't the same as "artistic expression". "Paranoid" by Tony Iommi doesn't sound anything like "Paranoid" with Randy Rhoads, or "Paranoid" by Zakk Wylde (and none are "better", just different interpretations). I think, likely, the truth is somewhere in between, but nonetheless, it IS a dynamic, and it's unarguable that the dynamic isn't the same. Some might like that, some might not. For me, I got into DT because of James, and I'm still along for the ride (see what I did there?) because of him, so none of this is a knock on him per se.
But it IS different, in my opinion.
I did.
I don't know you in real life, so perhaps you were there, but if not, that - and I mean this respectfully and in the context of the band's decisions - means absolutely nothing in this discussion (as does my opinion on the melody too, by the way).
-
I'm sure the Systematic Chaos recording process had something to do with him wanting to go to Canada for all future recordings after BCSL.
Wasn't that the time where Portnoy was literally standing over him (in some behind the scenes video) and trying to get him to sing like other singers? I remember watching something like that. Could have been for Octavarium. But I distinctly remember that, because it bothered me and my wife when we watched it, and had us commenting how MP needed to shush and let the man sing. :lol
No, he and Petrucci kept making him redo the chorus of Forsaken even though James came up with a better melody, and James was getting pissed. MP and JP were being very douchey.
Who said the melody was better? Point being, that's the point I was trying to make, that all of this is at the whim of the artists, and no one else. When one artist is 1500 miles away by himself, you WILL have a different outcome if three of the band members are standing around the vocal booth discussing what the out put should be.
You all know that "having the notes" isn't the same as "artistic expression". "Paranoid" by Tony Iommi doesn't sound anything like "Paranoid" with Randy Rhoads, or "Paranoid" by Zakk Wylde (and none are "better", just different interpretations). I think, likely, the truth is somewhere in between, but nonetheless, it IS a dynamic, and it's unarguable that the dynamic isn't the same. Some might like that, some might not. For me, I got into DT because of James, and I'm still along for the ride (see what I did there?) because of him, so none of this is a knock on him per se.
But it IS different, in my opinion.
I did.
I don't know you in real life, so perhaps you were there, but if not, that - and I mean this respectfully and in the context of the band's decisions - means absolutely nothing in this discussion (as does my opinion on the melody too, by the way).
It means I have an opinion.
-
I’ll always remember that “you have any more compliments?” Comment from JlB in the SC DVD. The look on his face said it all.
I have my opinions about JLB, but I’ll keep them to myself since it has gotten me in trouble here in the past.