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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on February 18, 2019, 11:40:28 AM
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Do people make the difference between conceit and shyness?
Why are closed and shy people often misunderstood to be conceited?
Neil Peart is a good example of introverted person, but I don't think he is conceited.
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Is this your personal experience? Do you have numbers to prove that is the case, as in a poll or something of the sorts? Do you feel people think you are conceited when you are just introverted and want us to be your support group?
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In my experience almost all introverted people are the exact opposite of that, they're either down to earth and respectful or lack self confidence.
Also every introverted person I've met had an access point and when I cared enough to find it; I discover a fun person.
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Why are closed and shy people often misunderstood to be conceited?
/quote]
Because for some people who are not shy, it might be easier to understand and label someone as being conceited instead of understanding them as being shy. I range from being shy, to having social anxiety, to just not wanting to be social or around other people. As such, I have been thought of as being aloof, or standoffish, by others. But I can't help what they think of me.
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Is this your personal experience? Do you have numbers to prove that is the case, as in a poll or something of the sorts? Do you feel people think you are conceited when you are just introverted and want us to be your support group?
This is actually a thing, at least in the US. There's what is called the "extrovert Ideal" that first really had an effect when Dale Carnegie* ("How to Win Friends and Influence People") became popular. and which coincided with the rise in sales jobs. Suddenly, extroversion was viewed as the correct, productive and proper way to be, and introverts were defective, aloof, lazy or cowards. This still persists (it sure as hell did during m childhood), though it thankfully seems to be shifting back a bit. Internet and texting have helped in creating space for introverts.
I highly recommend Susan Cain's "Quiet" for anyone interested...it's pretty much the motherfucking bible for introverts. It certainly helped me make peace with, and even embrace, my introversion rather than seeing it as a liability or something shameful.
Edit: *On a not-unrelated note, if I had a time machine, Dale Carnegie is one of the five people for whom I would time travel so I could punch them in the nose
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I highly recommend Susan Cain's "Quiet" for anyone interested...it's pretty much the motherfucking bible for introverts. It certainly helped me make peace with, and even embrace, my introversion rather than seeing it as a liability or something shameful.
Same for me, it's an amazing book and has helped me a lot to embrace my introversion as well.
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My MiL gave me that book a while back. I am not a self-help book kinda guy. In fact I think I passed it along to someone whom I thought would benefit from it. If they still have it I might ask for it back if they are done with it.
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My MiL gave me that book a while back. I am not a self-help book kinda guy. In fact I think I passed it along to someone whom I thought would benefit from it.
So you gave it back? :neverusethis:
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My MiL gave me that book a while back. I am not a self-help book kinda guy. In fact I think I passed it along to someone whom I thought would benefit from it. If they still have it I might ask for it back if they are done with it.
It's not self-help at all, but a thorough research on the origins of introversion from an evolution standpoint, the different ways society has seen it throughout history, and how we got to this day, and how we can do better. It's helpful not because it tells you in shallow words that you're fine, but because it shows you without any doubt why introverts are like the way they are, and I find that deeply inspiring.
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My MiL gave me that book a while back. I am not a self-help book kinda guy. In fact I think I passed it along to someone whom I thought would benefit from it. If they still have it I might ask for it back if they are done with it.
It's not self-help at all, but a thorough research on the origins of introversion from an evolution standpoint, the different ways society has seen it throughout history, and how we got to this day, and how we can do better. It's helpful not because it tells you in shallow words that you're fine, but because it shows you without any doubt why introverts are like the way they are, and I find that deeply inspiring.
Thank you for the insight. I honestly didn't know what it was about, other that introverts. I guess in the end I don't really care about its origins, history, progress, or any of that. But I recognize the immense value it would be for others.
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Millahh or Adami can probably share more, but while I get the premise of the question, and agree that as general rule there's some "there" there, the clinical idea of "introvert" is not just "shy" or "suffering from social anxiety". I will talk the ears off a jackass, and while I know the feelings of "social anxiety" - and experience them more often than not - I have gotten to the point that I have tools to overcome that in all but the most specific of circumstances. Yet, in almost every psychological review I've ever been given, I get "introvert".
I would also push back on the notion of "conceited" - or any other descriptor - of someone we've likely never met nor diagnosed. Too many other factors come into play here. I think there are more than a few of us here that know enough about Neil's history to give him the benefit of the doubt, or base their assumptions not on his introversion but on his extensive writings, or the snippets we get from things like the "Beyond The Lighted Stage" doc. But the fact is, we DON'T know whether he's truly "conceited" or not; there's certainly evidence that he could be. I don't know, and I'm not putting this forward, but by way of example, I can easily see someone like Paul Stanley being classified psychologically as an introvert.
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Introvert does not mean shy or having social anxiety, it basically just means you spend energy with other people and gain energy when you're more on your own, while extroverts gain energy from being around other people and spend energy when they're alone. You can be an extremely personable, outgoing person and still be an introvert. You can also be an extrovert who is extremely shy with some social anxiety. They overlap, but don't really have much to do with each other.
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My MiL gave me that book a while back. I am not a self-help book kinda guy. In fact I think I passed it along to someone whom I thought would benefit from it. If they still have it I might ask for it back if they are done with it.
It's not self-help at all, but a thorough research on the origins of introversion from an evolution standpoint, the different ways society has seen it throughout history, and how we got to this day, and how we can do better. It's helpful not because it tells you in shallow words that you're fine, but because it shows you without any doubt why introverts are like the way they are, and I find that deeply inspiring.
Thank you for the insight. I honestly didn't know what it was about, other that introverts. I guess in the end I don't really care about its origins, history, progress, or any of that. But I recognize the immense value it would be for others.
There's more to it that that, there are also strategies for navigating an extrovert-oriented world, and also for how to leverage introversion for success. Before reading it, had had come to accept my introversion, though still saw it as a liability, reading Quiet shifted things so that I truly saw it as a strength I could leverage (especially professionally, where I'm in a significant leadership role).
Introvert does not mean shy or having social anxiety, it basically just means you spend energy with other people and gain energy when you're more on your own, while extroverts gain energy from being around other people and spend energy when they're alone. You can be an extremely personable, outgoing person and still be an introvert. You can also be an extrovert who is extremely shy with some social anxiety. They overlap, but don't really have much to do with each other.
Yep. I'm introverted, but am pretty outspoken (when I choose to speak), and am not shy nor do I have social anxiety (anymore). I can lead meetings, run trainings, etc just fine...I just wind up needing some recovery/recharge time afterwards.
Regarding conceited, I think it merits a little more attention here..."aloof" (which is a close cousin of conceited) is often thrown around to describe introverts, based on either shitty assumptions made by extroverts, or others simply not taking the time/effort to get to know us. Interacting with people we don't know, or with large groups, can be exhausting after a while. It doesn't mean we think we're better than everyone else or are misanthropic, we're just wired differently.
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Those last two paragraphs describe me to a T. I have to mentally prepare for things like work phone calls, because they are, as Adami pointed out, an energy expenditure for me.
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Good discussion here. You guys are all smarter and more versed in this topic than I am, so I won't be contributing much, but will be following.
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Whenever I'm in large crowds (large = probably 20 or more people), or experiencing any sort of sensory overload, my brain just goes into hibernation and I basically go numb until I can get out of said situation.
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Edit: *On a not-unrelated note, if I had a time machine, Dale Carnegie is one of the five people for whom I would time travel so I could punch them in the nose
You say that, but at the moment you walked up to him and got within arms length, he'd look you in the eye and bark, "Can I help you!?"
And you'd blush, look down at your shoes, mumble something and walk away. Leaving him to spread his treacherous poison among the masses.
:biggrin:
As to the OP, my answer is no. I have all of my life, been incredibly hyper intuitive. I have posted on here on more than one occassion, how when I was a much younger Lothario, I used that gift/curse for evil. But it's just something that naturally happens to me. Constantly. There is no turning it off. I've even had friends and family members rely on it to help them assess other people in their lives. It used to drive me crazy sometimes. Now, that I'm older, I hardly notice it. But, it's always there. I'm not exactly sure how it developed. I used to think it was because growing up in a military family, I attended 16 different schools from K-12. That experience alone made me have to understand my environment and quickly assess my place in it; or risk being eaten alive. I learned to not only understand it, but how to easily manipulate it. Now, I'm not so sure it was gifted to me through my environment. Why? My son has the same ability. I think it may be genetic now.
But, I have never felt that introverts are conceited. While they can be; I have never felt that their introversion by itself came across that way. I think some extroverts are intimiated by introverts, because they don't understand them, or they don't respond the way the extrovert expects or desires them to when they interact. Those who possess low emotional intelligence or are immature can easily label introverts a certain way as a defense mechanism.
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Introvert does not mean shy or having social anxiety, it basically just means you spend energy with other people and gain energy when you're more on your own, while extroverts gain energy from being around other people and spend energy when they're alone. You can be an extremely personable, outgoing person and still be an introvert. You can also be an extrovert who is extremely shy with some social anxiety. They overlap, but don't really have much to do with each other.
I didn't know this at all, I always thought it was the shyness and social anxiety.
By your definition I think I'm an introvert, funny I always thought I was an extrovert. Shit, one of the few things I like about myself is gone hehe
But can you elaborate more on what you mean by spending energy? Is it just the mental exhaustion from a heightened degree of self awareness that comes when an introvert is with people? If so then I feel that way a lot, especially around strangers, last week I was having breakfast with Barto and he was telling me about the DTF get together in NY last year and I told him I would have loved to make it and that was true; I would have loved to meet these DTFers in real life of course. But I know I would have been silent as fuck throughout while trying to keep a balance so that my silence wouldn't appear awkward and triple thinking every word that came out of my mouth dreading exposing myself as an idiot :lol
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You can be an extroverted introvert. Someone who enjoys being around people, isn't shy or socially awkward, but feels exhausted after an evening out with people and needs to renergize with some time alone.
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Introvert does not mean shy or having social anxiety, it basically just means you spend energy with other people and gain energy when you're more on your own, while extroverts gain energy from being around other people and spend energy when they're alone. You can be an extremely personable, outgoing person and still be an introvert. You can also be an extrovert who is extremely shy with some social anxiety. They overlap, but don't really have much to do with each other.
I didn't know this at all, I always thought it was the shyness and social anxiety.
By your definition I think I'm an introvert, funny I always thought I was an extrovert. Shit, one of the few things I like about myself is gone hehe
But can you elaborate more on what you mean by spending energy? Is it just the mental exhaustion from a heightened degree of self awareness that comes when an introvert is with people? If so then I feel that way a lot, especially around strangers, last week I was having breakfast with Barto and he was telling me about the DTF get together in NY last year and I told him I would have loved to make it and that was true; I would have loved to meet these DTFers in real life of course. But I know I would have been silent as fuck throughout while trying to keep a balance so that my silence wouldn't appear awkward and triple thinking every word that came out of my mouth dreading exposing myself as an idiot :lol
Being an extrovert isn't "good." Plus, if I wanted to ruin one of the things you like about yourself, I'll talk about how Sayyid Qutb was a pussy.
It's also a spectrum (like....just about everything else in life) You can be somewhat extroverted and somewhat introverted. It's not a medical condition or anything.
But to answer your question, it's like a car. If you're a full on introvert, then being around lots of people leaves your gas tank empty and being alone puts gas back in the tank, and vice versa.
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Thanks shmendrik heh
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Thanks shmendrik heh
Back at you habibi. :heart
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You can be an extroverted introvert. Someone who enjoys being around people, isn't shy or socially awkward, but feels exhausted after an evening out with people and needs to renergize with some time alone.
The term I choose to use for that (since I'm that way) is ambivert. I do like to socialize and hang out with friends, but it's imperative that I have my "me" time to recharge my batteries.
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For all my introverts out there, do you experience social exhaustion?
A lot of people like to write me off as anti-social and that's not really the case. I just literally get burned out and exhausted from social situations. I can't just go back out on day 2 and do a big event again. And from what I read, introverts need to recharge alone and extroverts its opposite, they are worn out by isolation and get recharged by socializing and groups.
Anyone else experience this? Either the introvert social burnout or extrovert isolation burnout?
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Holy shit! I thought WildRanger was back!
Did he get permabanned or leave of his own volition?
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For all my introverts out there, do you experience social exhaustion?
A lot of people like to write me off as anti-social and that's not really the case. I just literally get burned out and exhausted from social situations. I can't just go back out on day 2 and do a big event again. And from what I read, introverts need to recharge alone and extroverts its opposite, they are worn out by isolation and get recharged by socializing and groups.
Anyone else experience this? Either the introvert social burnout or extrovert isolation burnout?
As a manager I feel this a lot. I have to be vocal and sometimes people wear me down.
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Holy shit! I thought WildRanger was back!
My first thought. :lol
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Holy shit! I thought WildRanger was back!
My first thought. :lol
Same :rollin
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Holy shit! I thought WildRanger was back!
My first thought. :lol
Same :rollin
Make that three! :lol
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For all my introverts out there, do you experience social exhaustion?
I don't know if I'd consider it exhaustion. But these days I just don't find much joy in social situations. Most of them consist of kid-oriented activities, and I enjoy talking to the other parents well enough while watching the kids play. But it's not like I ever find myself thinking "hey, I wanna go talk to so-and-so's dad..."
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Holy shit! I thought WildRanger was back!
My first thought. :lol
Same :rollin
Make that three! :lol
And 4!
I loathe social situations. I can't stand being around people I don't know and I struggle to even tolerate being around the people I do know. I'm happy to just be at home doing my thing.
My wife is an extreme extrovert. We are the epitome of opposite's attract.
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Holy shit! I thought WildRanger was back!
My first thought. :lol
Same :rollin
Make that three! :lol
And 4!
I loathe social situations. I can't stand being around people I don't know and I struggle to even tolerate being around the people I do know. I'm happy to just be at home doing my thing.
My wife is an extreme extrovert. We are the epitome of opposite's attract.
Yeah, this kind of sums me up too.
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Holy shit! I thought WildRanger was back!
My first thought. :lol
Same :rollin
Make that three! :lol
And 4!
I loathe social situations. I can't stand being around people I don't know and I struggle to even tolerate being around the people I do know. I'm happy to just be at home doing my thing.
My wife is an extreme extrovert. We are the epitome of opposite's attract.
Yeah, this kind of sums me up too.
And 5
I have a pretty good balance, I think. Neither one or the other.
My wife is quite introverted, has social anxiety and a healthy dose of imposter syndrome. Because of this, I've learned to read a room pretty quick in her defense. I'll always let her tell me when she's ready to go, but I can predict it pretty close now. She's been called conceited or aloof to her face...it's not unheard of.
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I've been called an arrogant fuck a couple of times.
Like in the gym some douchebags go out of their way to know everyone, fist pump each other and talk shit. I go out of my way to keep my head down and not even acknowledge people. I'm not there to talk shit with you pal. I get death stares from a few people cause I don't conform to the social game but fuck it.
The odd time I do speak, mainly to the staff I'm the politest and friendliest fucker there. These assholes do double takes when that happens. :lol
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Social situations in which I don't already know the majority of people are difficult and draining for me. I rarely encounter those situations these days, so I actually have been enjoying interacting with people more than ever because I'm living almost exclusively in my comfort zone. I have a work trip coming up in a few weeks where I'm going to have to network with new people from other companies and I am dreading it. I always feel so incompetent in those situations.
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I have very slight social anxiety and am definitely an introvert. The whole thing where introverts need to be alone to recharge so to speak is exactly my experience. Sometimes I love being out with a large group, even for an entire weekend or longer. But inevitably there will come times where I just need a little bit of time to myself to catch my breath.
Here's a question for other introverts. Do you enjoy being out alone but in public/busy places? Like for example, since I started working from home, I've noticed I get much stronger urges to go out after work. That isn't to say I need to go out and talk to people, but I definitely enjoy going to a busy bar, sitting alone, and just kind of vibing with the social atmosphere. I'll talk to people now and then, but that's not my primary goal. Anyone else do that?
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I have very slight social anxiety and am definitely an introvert. The whole thing where introverts need to be alone to recharge so to speak is exactly my experience. Sometimes I love being out with a large group, even for an entire weekend or longer. But inevitably there will come times where I just need a little bit of time to myself to catch my breath.
Here's a question for other introverts. Do you enjoy being out alone but in public/busy places? Like for example, since I started working from home, I've noticed I get much stronger urges to go out after work. That isn't to say I need to go out and talk to people, but I definitely enjoy going to a busy bar, sitting alone, and just kind of vibing with the social atmosphere. I'll talk to people now and then, but that's not my primary goal. Anyone else do that?
100%. Though I don't go to bars anymore unless it is before a show :)
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Holy shit! I thought WildRanger was back!
My first thought. :lol
Same :rollin
Make that three! :lol
Maybe if we say his name three times he'll come back, like Beetlejuice!
As for the subject, I've concluded that I'm an introvert who wishes he were an extrovert. I'm usually perfectly happy hanging out by myself, but I often wish I could be part of the crowd. However, if I am in a long social situation or multiple such situations consecutively, I absolutely need to do a deep dive of alone time.
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Here's a question for other introverts. Do you enjoy being out alone but in public/busy places? Like for example, since I started working from home, I've noticed I get much stronger urges to go out after work. That isn't to say I need to go out and talk to people, but I definitely enjoy going to a busy bar, sitting alone, and just kind of vibing with the social atmosphere. I'll talk to people now and then, but that's not my primary goal. Anyone else do that?
I get very uncomfortable being just alone out in crowded places. I much prefer to have at least one other person with me, since they act as like a shield against the overwhelming social energy/anxiety. Its like wearing a pair on sunglasses when its too sunny out.
on the flip side, if I've been home a couple of days with no human interaction, I will start getting depressed and have a strong urge to try and interact with people.
So its like I need the isolation to recharge, but there is such thing as TOO much isolation which begins to cause new problems.
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Holy shit! I thought WildRanger was back!
My first thought. :lol
Same :rollin
Make that three! :lol
And 4!
I loathe social situations. I can't stand being around people I don't know and I struggle to even tolerate being around the people I do know. I'm happy to just be at home doing my thing.
My wife is an extreme extrovert. We are the epitome of opposite's attract.
Yeah, this kind of sums me up too.
Same here. I can do the "going out to bars with friends" thing for a while and then it just gets old and burnt out. Some of my friends can keep doing that non-stop like they can't get enough. It's been over a year now that I've seen any of them.
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Really interesting to see both an emphatic yes and no to my post. It's really fascinating how different people are.
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I have very slight social anxiety and am definitely an introvert. The whole thing where introverts need to be alone to recharge so to speak is exactly my experience. Sometimes I love being out with a large group, even for an entire weekend or longer. But inevitably there will come times where I just need a little bit of time to myself to catch my breath.
Here's a question for other introverts. Do you enjoy being out alone but in public/busy places? Like for example, since I started working from home, I've noticed I get much stronger urges to go out after work. That isn't to say I need to go out and talk to people, but I definitely enjoy going to a busy bar, sitting alone, and just kind of vibing with the social atmosphere. I'll talk to people now and then, but that's not my primary goal. Anyone else do that?
I really could never go out and sit in a bar alone, no way.
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Here's a question for other introverts. Do you enjoy being out alone but in public/busy places? Like for example, since I started working from home, I've noticed I get much stronger urges to go out after work. That isn't to say I need to go out and talk to people, but I definitely enjoy going to a busy bar, sitting alone, and just kind of vibing with the social atmosphere. I'll talk to people now and then, but that's not my primary goal. Anyone else do that?
That would never occur to me. I wouldn't enjoy that in the slightest.
A couple months ago the wife and kids went on vacation so I was alone for a week. Aside from going to work and the grocery store, I never left the house. There wasn't any one place I wanted to go, regardless of it was a public/busy place or not.
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A couple months ago the wife and kids went on vacation so I was alone for a week.
Were you not invited??
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A couple months ago the wife and kids went on vacation so I was alone for a week.
Were you not invited??
Tom, you know better.
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A couple months ago the wife and kids went on vacation so I was alone for a week.
Were you not invited??
Tom, you know better.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4a67305f2fe8a49542d095586780d298/e6cec20755ea4660-27/s400x600/c0e8d45ffe12fa35c45fed2a0750bcdacb425403.gif)
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Tam, you know it to be true.
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A couple months ago the wife and kids went on vacation so I was alone for a week.
Were you not invited??
Mrs. Cool is a teacher so has the summers off. I have one of those jobs that involves working 12 months a year. So often they will leave for a 2 week vacation over the summer and I will join them for the second half (or go for the first half and return early).
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A couple months ago the wife and kids went on vacation so I was alone for a week.
Were you not invited??
Tom, you know better.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4a67305f2fe8a49542d095586780d298/e6cec20755ea4660-27/s400x600/c0e8d45ffe12fa35c45fed2a0750bcdacb425403.gif)
This made me laugh more than it should have. :lol
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A couple months ago the wife and kids went on vacation so I was alone for a week.
Were you not invited??
Mrs. Cool is a teacher so has the summers off. I have one of those jobs that involves working 12 months a year. So often they will leave for a 2 week vacation over the summer and I will join them for the second half (or go for the first half and return early).
I got one of these too, sucks ass. Might get a week off if a 13th month is ever discovered.
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Here's a question for other introverts. Do you enjoy being out alone but in public/busy places? Like for example, since I started working from home, I've noticed I get much stronger urges to go out after work. That isn't to say I need to go out and talk to people, but I definitely enjoy going to a busy bar, sitting alone, and just kind of vibing with the social atmosphere. I'll talk to people now and then, but that's not my primary goal. Anyone else do that?
That would never occur to me. I wouldn't enjoy that in the slightest.
A couple months ago the wife and kids went on vacation so I was alone for a week. Aside from going to work and the grocery store, I never left the house. There wasn't any one place I wanted to go, regardless of it was a public/busy place or not.
During winter that scenario happens often for me. When it's warm enough I do like getting outside a lot, but I prefer it when even that involves less people. I would definitely not go to a bar alone, unless the bar was also a venue and I was seeing a band.
I think it might be different for me because I'm in a long distance relationship and we talk every day. Maybe if that wasn't the case I'd feel lonely and want to see people more often, but it's hard to say.
I enjoy socializing at concerts. If I'm going to one by myself, sometimes I don't really talk to anyone and I'm fine with it, but sometimes I talk to other fans and it's usually a lot of fun. And if I know people at the show it's of course good to see them, catch up, talk about music, etc. As long as it's not actually during the set .. don't talk to me when the band is playing. :)
And as to the original question, I did hear that some kids thought I was stuck up at school because I was pretty quiet. But it's not like they tried to talk to me either, so... By that logic they were stuck up too.
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A couple months ago the wife and kids went on vacation so I was alone for a week.
Were you not invited??
Tom, you know better.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4a67305f2fe8a49542d095586780d298/e6cec20755ea4660-27/s400x600/c0e8d45ffe12fa35c45fed2a0750bcdacb425403.gif)
This made me laugh more than it should have. :lol
Me too. Tum's reactions to Kang are always gold. :)
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I have very slight social anxiety and am definitely an introvert. The whole thing where introverts need to be alone to recharge so to speak is exactly my experience. Sometimes I love being out with a large group, even for an entire weekend or longer. But inevitably there will come times where I just need a little bit of time to myself to catch my breath.
Here's a question for other introverts. Do you enjoy being out alone but in public/busy places? Like for example, since I started working from home, I've noticed I get much stronger urges to go out after work. That isn't to say I need to go out and talk to people, but I definitely enjoy going to a busy bar, sitting alone, and just kind of vibing with the social atmosphere. I'll talk to people now and then, but that's not my primary goal. Anyone else do that?
I really could never go out and sit in a bar alone, no way.
Relatively speaking, I do that a lot.
There are too many factors involved in things like this to really pin it all on 'introvert' or 'extrovert', though. I LIKE human companionship and company; that doesn't mean that it's not an energy expenditure.
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I HATE humans more and more each day. :lol
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Why are closed and shy people often misunderstood to be conceited?
Most times someone's judging someone to have some negative trait or other it's because they're projecting their own failings onto them.
In the case of accusing someone who's shy of being conceited you can largely take it as read that they themselves are conceited and their expectations of receiving someone's undivided weren't met.