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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Darkstarshades on December 07, 2018, 11:27:50 AM
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https://twitter.com/peta/status/1070066047414345729
This has been around for a few days and there has already been a response to the obviously extremely negative criticism they've been getting (which I think they removed, can't locate it, if someone can please share).
But with all due honesty, what are your thoughts about this?
Btw, I highly recommend reading answers :lol
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Can you summarize what the issue is rather than just providing a link?
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Can you summarize what the issue is rather than just providing a link?
PETA is an animal rights organization, and they posted an image suggesting a change in everyday quotes as to remove "speciesism" from language, with rather ridiculous examples that don't even work the same way (analogies like changing "Be the Guinea Pig" for "Be the Test Tube" don't work the same way, both things don't perform the same function) or suggesting feeding birds with scone, which isn't... suggested.
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We know what PETA is. But we cannot tell just from your post what the specific issue is that they are trying to accomplish that you are calling out. We can't join in in properly ripping them if you don't tell us why. :lol
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtmjZgPWoAIf05P.jpg)
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Don't they have bigger fish to fry?
[i confess, I didn't come up with that myself]
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:lol
seems kind of ridiculous if you try to force this but making such a suggestion isn't such a big deal but the feed a fed horse is kind of funny
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Don't they have bigger fish to fry?
[i confess, I didn't come up with that myself]
:lol Nice.
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You can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone who wants to be offended.
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Fuck this shit.
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How many vegans does it take to change a light bulb?
None. Vegans can't change anything.
You have your answer.
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Oh man now im reading the twitter and responses :lol the picture of bacon almost made me spit up my water :lol
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Speaking of bacon, my wife and I went to an ugly sweater holiday party this last weekend where there was a white elephant gift exchange. As is to be expected, most of the gifts were gag gifts of one sort or another. But somebody had gifted a 5 pound slab of bacon! I believe that sucker got stolen immediately and reached the steal limit (house rules were 2 steals per gift, and then that gift is locked down) in record time.
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This is awesome :lol
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Speaking of bacon, my wife and I went to an ugly sweater holiday party this last weekend where there was a white elephant gift exchange. As is to be expected, most of the gifts were gag gifts of one sort or another. But somebody had gifted a 5 pound slab of bacon! I believe that sucker got stolen immediately and reached the steal limit (house rules were 2 steals per gift, and then that gift is locked down) in record time.
For a white elephant gift, I once gave a trout that had been in my freezer for a decade. I wrapped it up super fancy and it was the first present chosen.
My sister punched me in the arm. Really hard.
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Speaking of bacon, my wife and I went to an ugly sweater holiday party this last weekend where there was a white elephant gift exchange. As is to be expected, most of the gifts were gag gifts of one sort or another. But somebody had gifted a 5 pound slab of bacon! I believe that sucker got stolen immediately and reached the steal limit (house rules were 2 steals per gift, and then that gift is locked down) in record time.
For a white elephant gift, I once gave a trout that had been in my freezer for a decade. I wrapped it up super fancy and it was the first present chosen.
My sister punched me in the arm. Really hard.
:lol
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Why do you have a decade old frozen trout in the first place :lol
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I approach this the same way as I do "such and such files lawsuit against such and such for ridiculous reason". Anyone can sue anyone for anything, it doesn't mean anything. Actually getting somewhere with things is another matter. Of course this is what PETA wants, but I've seen people react elsewhere to it as if they've got it enacted into law and the SS has been enlisted to go door to door and enforce it.
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Why do you have a decade old frozen trout in the first place :lol
I was going to ask that same question, but I decided it is actually more fun not knowing.
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Well, you know. You go catch fish, bring them home, eat a couple and wrap one up in foil and put it in the freezer. Then your psycho ex-wife buys a giant box of corn dogs at Sam's Club and pushes the fish to the back of the freezer. It takes the kids a few years to eat the corn dogs and by then the fish is buried in frost behind the elk roast that your redneck employee got you a few years ago, that you didn't really want, but were too polite to tell him no. Etc. Etc.
Then, you and the new wife are cleaning out the freezer one day and she lifts it up carefully between her thumb and forefinger and asks, "What the christ-on-a-crutch is this?" So I tell her it must be a fish I caught about 10 years ago and she makes like to throw it away. Suddenly, I get this idea about white elephant gifts and stop her.
:)
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I hereby retract my previous post.
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:lol I wonder what else has been stocking up in the back of the freezer since that last clean
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I approach this the same way as I do "such and such files lawsuit against such and such for ridiculous reason". Anyone can sue anyone for anything, it doesn't mean anything. Actually getting somewhere with things is another matter. Of course this is what PETA wants, but I've seen people react elsewhere to it as if they've got it enacted into law and the SS has been enlisted to go door to door and enforce it.
I think the reason people are pissed is that PETA said that using the original phrases are as bad as saying n***** or f***** (racist and homophobic slurs, respectively)...that is, uhh, going to rub people the wrong way.
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You can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone who wants to be offended.
:spitcoffee:
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(https://i.redd.it/bmkdc6rbih221.jpg)
Edit: Also, this, which I'm pretty sure I've posted on this forum at some point before:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91BprvcAM-L.jpg) (https://www.amazon.com/dp/0517545160/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_MJTcCb2C71EF6)
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If I ever hear someone say "Feed two birds with one scone," I'll punch them (remember, I'm short, so that punch could be a good one).
And if I ever hear someone say "Be the test tube," I'll probably just laugh at them. Hard.
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This is actually pretty clever on PETA's part. They've already accomplished primary goal. People are talking about them. As fun as it is to bag on PETA they're not so dumb as to think they're going to change language in this country, and they realize that this would be the subject of ridicule. That was the object of the exercise.
And swing a dead cat has always been a favorite of mine.
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Speaking of bacon, my wife and I went to an ugly sweater holiday party this last weekend where there was a white elephant anonymous inexpensive gift exchange. As is to be expected, most of the gifts were gag gifts of one sort or another. But somebody had gifted a 5 pound slab of bacon! I believe that sucker got stolen immediately and reached the steal limit (house rules were 2 steals per gift, and then that gift is locked down) in record time.
Fixed that for ya before the PETA lawsuit...
Oh, and they also wanted to make the British town of Wool to change it's name, and got it totally wrong. Surprise.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/25/world/europe/uk-peta-wool-village.html
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Ive never eaten meat and only do dairy once in a blue moon, but i no longer identify as a vegan because of things like this.
Also, i think el barto hit the nail on the head.
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It's funny to me how there were all these social justice causes who campaigned for different language use and it all got, in the very least, seriously debated, if not outright adopted, and then every time vegans try to piggyback on that success and say "well actually, this aspect of animal life is similar to human oppression, so if you care about that, you'll care about this!", and people laugh at it.
Because it's hilarious. Should I stop saying words that are offensive to groups of people because of their immutable characteristics? Yes, because that's rude and I'm not a rude person. Should I stop saying I'm going to beat a dead horse? I am not beating any horses and there is no horse alive who can understand that!
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Didn't read the article. I'm assuming the chart actually came from Peta then? I didn't see "Fuck a Duck" on there. Is it because it could be good for the duck too? Not that I'd actually know anything about that.
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I agree with the idea that changing language can help to change attitudes, but that's a long process that takes more than a little chart... And these are just fucking stupid replacements.
Also, to me "guinea pig" has a negative connotation (i.e. "I feel like I'm just your guinea pig when we make passionate butt love and then you go home to your wife") so changing it doesn't make sense.
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I've used guinea pig describing myself. Intent is what really matters.
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This thread is more fun than a barrel full of monkeys
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Yeah, seems like the horse has left the barn.
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:lol
P.s. this list was first sent to me by a vegan I'm dating, in the context of "this is fucking absurd," so they're not all PETA freaks.
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"Feed two birds with one scone" falls flat right away because scone doesn't rhyme with stone...
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This is actually pretty clever on PETA's part. They've already accomplished primary goal. People are talking about them. As fun as it is to bag on PETA they're not so dumb as to think they're going to change language in this country, and they realize that this would be the subject of ridicule. That was the object of the exercise.
And swing a dead cat has always been a favorite of mine.
Yeah but the conversation is ultimately going to be some form of 'PETA, and by extension animal rights, is something only crazy people believe in.' Not all press is good press.
Like most reasonable people, I eat meat and wear leather. I have no intention of stopping. But the way we treat animals is appalling and gets no serious attention because only crazy people/organizations seem to support animal rights.
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I think those are just the people who get the most attention... but also maybe doing something like that full-time fucking drives you crazy because people just don't give a shit and it's a mostly thankless path. For the most part people think they are entitled to eat whatever they want regardless of the amount of torture involved in making that food. How do you change those attitudes? I have no fucking idea and I mostly think PETA are assholes, but I also understand the whole drastic measures thing.
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I think those are just the people who get the most attention... but also maybe doing something like that full-time fucking drives you crazy because people just don't give a shit and it's a mostly thankless path. For the most part people think they are entitled to eat whatever they want regardless of the amount of torture involved in making that food. How do you change those attitudes? I have no fucking idea and I mostly think PETA are assholes, but I also understand the whole drastic measures thing.
I kinda sorta agree with everything you said.
There's a weird vicious cycle where, because of the perception of animal rights activism, forms of protest normally considered standard practice get labelled crazy. Look at ag gag laws. In what other area of political discussion is documenting business malpractice and releasing it to the public not considered whistleblowing?
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That's a good point. Yeah, I think part of that perception is that many people have trouble accepting the idea that animals actually feel pain and have personalities because that would cause them to look too hard at their own behavior. Also because it's such a huge industry so ingrained in our culture. If we just automatically label these people as crazy we don't have to change anything!
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This is actually pretty clever on PETA's part. They've already accomplished primary goal. People are talking about them. As fun as it is to bag on PETA they're not so dumb as to think they're going to change language in this country, and they realize that this would be the subject of ridicule. That was the object of the exercise.
And swing a dead cat has always been a favorite of mine.
Yeah but the conversation is ultimately going to be some form of 'PETA, and by extension animal rights, is something only crazy people believe in.' Not all press is good press.
Like most reasonable people, I eat meat and wear leather. I have no intention of stopping. But the way we treat animals is appalling and gets no serious attention because only crazy people/organizations seem to support animal rights.
Well Reapsta, if that is your real name, I see it differently. If the concern is that by being so fundamentally crazy PETA tarnishes the cause they support, I think it might actually have the opposite effect. People might be inclined to give an argument a fairer shake because they know its advocate is fucking retarded. Or, at the very least, not hold its originator against it. Do you really see people saying "well, if PETA is for it I shouldn't even bother paying any attention?" I don't. This seems to me the way things have played out over the years. A whole lot more people care about animal welfare now than used to, and most of them are people that will tell you in no uncertain terms that they don't want to be associated with those crazy fucks. In the meantime the numbskulls are just as silly as ever; stupid never changes.
There's a weird vicious cycle where, because of the perception of animal rights activism, forms of protest normally considered standard practice get labelled crazy.
Yeah, those ag-gag laws are bullshit. I think we might have started those down here after an expose at a chicken plant. There's also an opposite action in play. Forms of protest rightly considered crazy actually do have a positive effect. When some asshole throws paint at somebody wearing a fur, we call for them to be shot dead in the street like the sorry bastards they are. Fuck those people. Yet years later we're more conscious of the fur and leather we wear and accordingly use less of it. The idea of animal welfare has been introduced to the collective consciousness. That it came form some asshole vandal, or a group of whackjobs doesn't really matter once the idea begins to settle. Like all societal change it's very slow to happen, but it does happen. And for the people who don't change their thoughts on the process, do you think they're more likely to reconsider if the idea comes from Professor Schopenhauer of the Royal Academy of Complicated Shit? People set in their ways don't care about the messenger any more than they do the message.
Good to see you around. Been too long.
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Driving to work this morning I heard a story on Morning Edition that dealt with exactly my point there. Some nitwit in East Texas drove to a parking lot in the center of town with a gallon of gasoline and Quảng Đức'ed himself. He left a note explaining that he was doing this in protest of the racism he'd seen happening in his town and in his church. The community reaction has been described as a Rorschach test of sorts, as everybody sees the thing in a different light. Some want to honor his sacrifice. Plenty of people understandably see him as a dipshit SJW who killed himself for nothing. Yet even those that ridicule his foolishness know that it happened and it that meant something to him. That's not something they have to process, thus the message was delivered.
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That's a good point. Yeah, I think part of that perception is that many people have trouble accepting the idea that animals actually feel pain and have personalities...
Funny how it works. People who love dogs ascribe human qualities to them that I doubt they even have. But cows? Off to the bolt gun.
If we just automatically label these people as crazy we don't have to change anything!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs
Well Reapsta, if that is your real name
Getting a bit personal!
I see it differently. If the concern is that by being so fundamentally crazy PETA tarnishes the cause they support, I think it might actually have the opposite effect. People might be inclined to give an argument a fairer shake because they know its advocate is fucking retarded. Or, at the very least, not hold its originator against it. Do you really see people saying "well, if PETA is for it I shouldn't even bother paying any attention?" I don't.
Spite's a powerful motivator though. A normal person who sees PETA activists naked in human sized steak containers will probably think, "look at these weirdos. There's nothing wrong with how I go to the grocery store and buy a piece of steak." And I know I'm not the only person who likes eating meat and considers PETA's stuff so absurd that you feel like you have to eat more meat to counteract it.
This seems to me the way things have played out over the years. A whole lot more people care about animal welfare now than used to, and most of them are people that will tell you in no uncertain terms that they don't want to be associated with those crazy fucks...
...those ag-gag laws are bullshit. I think we might have started those down here after an expose at a chicken plant.
I think the expose stuff has done more than anything else. PETA's chicken holocaust campaign belittles profound human tragedy to score political points. But, go to Youtube and, if you can stomach it, watch what happens to male baby chickens. Youtube doesn't charge you, but you still pay with part of your soul.
There's also an opposite action in play. Forms of protest rightly considered crazy actually do have a positive effect. When some asshole throws paint at somebody wearing a fur, we call for them to be shot dead in the street like the sorry bastards they are. Fuck those people. Yet years later we're more conscious of the fur and leather we wear and accordingly use less of it.
I did some Googling here to confirm what I was thinking, but it seems like the decline of fur is just as much related to better quality faux fur as well as it gaining the association of being a luxury item (but in a bad way, where you look ostentatious if you wear it). It looks like PETA does a lot to pressure companies against it, but that seems more like businesses making the classic mistake of thinking their loudest detractors represent their customer base.
The idea of animal welfare has been introduced to the collective consciousness. That it came form some asshole vandal, or a group of whackjobs doesn't really matter once the idea begins to settle. Like all societal change it's very slow to happen, but it does happen. And for the people who don't change their thoughts on the process, do you think they're more likely to reconsider if the idea comes from Professor Schopenhauer of the Royal Academy of Complicated Shit? People set in their ways don't care about the messenger any more than they do the message.
Schopenhauer? Definitely not. A good example though of a better (I think) way to do it is the push for criminal justice reform. Lots of good documentaries and exposes are out there on how it's essentially a meat grinder for those unable to afford a lawyer. Because of this the First Step Act might actually become a law.
Good to see you around. Been too long.
You as well. It's good to be back.
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Spite's a powerful motivator though. A normal person who sees PETA activists naked in human sized steak containers will probably think, "look at these weirdos. There's nothing wrong with how I go to the grocery store and buy a piece of steak." And I know I'm not the only person who likes eating meat and considers PETA's stuff so absurd that you feel like you have to eat more meat to counteract it.
This mentality is so foreign to me I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around its existence. Counteract to what end? Particularly since you seem to have become quite conscientious on the subject, despite your contempt for PETA. Is their foolishness dragging you back to the animal cruelty side or something?
A good example though of a better (I think) way to do it is the push for criminal justice reform. Lots of good documentaries and exposes are out there on how it's essentially a meat grinder for those unable to afford a lawyer. Because of this the First Step Act might actually become a law.
A better way to do what? You really lost me on this one. I mean I agree completely about the meat grinder thing, but what does it have to do with chickens and naked girls in meat wrappers?
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chickens and naked girls in meat wrappers?
I believe I may have to go back and read more of this thread.... :)