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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: hockeydude25 on June 05, 2018, 09:33:53 PM

Title: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: hockeydude25 on June 05, 2018, 09:33:53 PM
IMO he has no overrated performances, but I think his ACOS studio version singing is underrated.

Thoughts, opinions?
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 05, 2018, 09:37:57 PM
Underrated, possible - I don't how how it is generally 'rated' - is In The Presence of Enemies, particularly Heretic and Slaughter of the Damned.

Overrated, his live performances in the early 90s. There is way, way, way too much screeching and straining.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Ninjabait on June 06, 2018, 07:29:21 AM
Underrated: BMUBMD in terms of sheer range. He screams a few G5s out in that song, which first off holy crap and second off holy crap. Far from Heaven in terms of expression. Fatal Tragedy for a bit of both--that is NOT an easy song to sing. ItNoG is another one.

Overrated: Uh. Awake maybe? idk. JLB is just a good singer all around imo.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: The Walrus on June 06, 2018, 07:37:14 AM
This is a really good question. For an underrated song, I was going to say something from The Astonishing because of all the hate it gets, but people who like TA tend to give props to James as one of the outstanding performers. So... maybe something from Falling Into Infinity. I feel like nobody ever, ever talks about his performance on Take Away My Pain. I never even bothered listening to that song regularly until many years ago when it came on shuffle - by the end, James's delivery of the lyrics and melody made me misty-eyed.

Overrated... that's tough. I think Voices, maybe, because I find the vocal lines and his delivery in that song to be SUPER obnoxious and unnecessary, and actually takes away from the song. So yeah. Voices. PROTECTING MAAAAAAAAAY
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 06, 2018, 07:52:40 AM
Underrated - Definitely TA, it seems to get a lot of crap from some, but James' performance was really great.

Overrated - Nothing I can think of honestly, James doesn't get that benefit often  :lol
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: bosk1 on June 06, 2018, 08:23:01 AM
Underrated - Definitely TA, it seems to get a lot of crap from some, but James' performance was really great.

Overrated - Nothing I can think of honestly, James doesn't get that benefit often  :lol

This is me posting from someone else's body.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 06, 2018, 09:05:02 AM
Underrated - Definitely TA, it seems to get a lot of crap from some, but James' performance was really great.

Overrated - Nothing I can think of honestly, James doesn't get that benefit often  :lol

This is me posting from someone else's body.

 :lol Good to know
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: pg1067 on June 06, 2018, 09:24:27 AM
Underrated - Definitely TA, it seems to get a lot of crap from some, but James' performance was really great.

I have never heard James's performance on TA get anything but praise.  In fact, where the album itself is discussed in less than stellar terms, James's performance is typically singled out as a highlight.

As far as the original question, these types of questions typically result in folks equating their personal opinions to an "overrated" or "underrated" label.  For example, "I love how he sounds on Blabbedy-Blah!  He is so underrated."  Or, "Blabbedy-Blah II: The Return of Blah is just terrible; his performance is way overrated."  That said, James's recorded performances are generally given high praise, which I believe is well-deserved.  Therefore, neither overrated nor underrated.  Live performances tend to be all over the map, but the harshest criticisms seem to be overly harsh and, therefore, some live performances may be underrated.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: The Walrus on June 06, 2018, 09:25:52 AM
I personally thought The Return of Blah was pretty good!
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: pg1067 on June 06, 2018, 09:28:11 AM
I personally thought The Return of Blah was pretty good!

It's quite underrated IMO.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Architeuthis on June 06, 2018, 11:50:03 AM
The best version of Blah is Alex Lifeson's acceptance speech at the RRHOF.... :lol
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Mladen on June 06, 2018, 12:11:02 PM
I would never say that the performance on The Astonishing is underrated. Even the people that hated the album give the tip of the hat to James for his singing on it.

I'd pick the entire Systematic Chaos as underrated. I'm having a hard time picking an overrated performance, though.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 06, 2018, 12:25:20 PM
I have never heard James's performance on TA get anything but praise.  In fact, where the album itself is discussed in less than stellar terms, James's performance is typically singled out as a highlight.
I would never say that the performance on The Astonishing is underrated. Even the people that hated the album give the tip of the hat to James for his singing on it.

Huh, maybe I'm remembering wrong, but when that album came out I believe I remember a good amount of folks here and especially other places online bashing the album and the performances as a whole, including James.

Either way, I feel like in 20 years when we look back on what was DT's catalog - TA won't be picked out as a big band or James highlight. But I think it's some of his best work.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: cramx3 on June 06, 2018, 12:59:47 PM
JLB is usually the one who gets picked on the most so I'm not sure what song he is really over rated for, but under rated would probably be TA.  He was just amazing all around and a lot of the fan base didn't really like the album. 
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 06, 2018, 02:11:07 PM


Overrated, his live performances in the early 90s. There is way, way, way too much screeching and straining.

Agree.  He was great in the 90s, no doubt, but seem people think he was untouchable, flawless, super human.  Yes, at times he was all of those but he still had some performances he struggled through.  There were times where he couldn't hit those Killing Hand notes as flawlessly and it was more screechy (but to be honest, it was still awesome...just not as awesome)

This is a really good question. For an underrated song, I was going to say something from The Astonishing because of all the hate it gets, but people who like TA tend to give props to James as one of the outstanding performers. So... maybe something from Falling Into Infinity. I feel like nobody ever, ever talks about his performance on Take Away My Pain. I never even bothered listening to that song regularly until many years ago when it came on shuffle - by the end, James's delivery of the lyrics and melody made me misty-eyed.

Yes, that whole song is underrated.  I really don't like the demo version/arrangement or the OIALT Kenny G version.  Album version is freakin amazing.  Anna Lee is also incredibly underrated, especially if you delve into the lyrics and examine them.  James said it was about child prostitution and right around the time I was getting into this song and read that, I had just seen some National Geographic special about these guys that go rescue a bunch of girls from some Southeast Asian country.  As they raided the place and took these girls out they were reaching for their captors, the only people they had known, and were scared of these strange men that took them.  Eventually they were holding on to their rescuers and crying and wouldn't let go.  I always remember those haunting images as I hear the lyrics. 

I say this often but LET JAMES WRITE MORE LYRICS!!!
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: TAC on June 06, 2018, 02:31:17 PM
I'd pick the entire Systematic Chaos as underrated. 

James is FLAWLESS on SC. FLAWLESS.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 07, 2018, 07:13:24 AM
I'd pick the entire Systematic Chaos as underrated. 

James is FLAWLESS on SC. FLAWLESS.

I think I've said it before, but I'll say it again - James is the MVP of that album for me. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd say that about any other DT record. Maybe TA.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 07, 2018, 10:08:22 AM
I have a hard time evaluating James on SC. On the one hand, he is indeed amazing, and I listed ItPoE2 as my most underrated James performance. On the other hand, CM and TDEN have such horrible vocal lines, I can't distinguish between how poorly they are constructed, and how James' performed them.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 07, 2018, 10:07:18 PM
Overrated-Hmm, not a whole lot, as he does to get picked on a bunch. I guess I'll say I'm not as high on the TA performance as some. There are a number of sections on there where that thin, warbly tone of his worse live performances starts to creep in. I do think the vocals on the album are passionately done and tell the story well, but technically speaking I think they're a bit spottier than a lot of his other work.

Underrated-As people have said, SC (esp. ITPOE, Forsaken, TMOLS, even PoW). Another latter-day one that really sticks out to me is the Stargazer cover. Anytime James brings that edgier upper-midrange in it really gives things a different dimension. And IWBY; I don't really care for the song but I think the vocals really carry out what they were trying to do.

Also I actually think many of the Winter Rose vocals are amazing.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 08, 2018, 06:50:45 AM
Underrated-As people have said, SC (esp. ITPOE, Forsaken, TMOLS, even PoW). Another latter-day one that really sticks out to me is the Stargazer cover. Anytime James brings that edgier upper-midrange in it really gives things a different dimension. And IWBY; I don't really care for the song but I think the vocals really carry out what they were trying to do.

James' work on that BC&SL covers disc is killer - he sounds fantastic on all those tracks.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Evai on June 09, 2018, 01:49:01 PM
Overrated - ACOS. It's the only DT studio release with vocals that are off-pitch enough to be distracting (to my ear). And a very strained high note towards the end of the song... Makes me wonder what could have been, if they had recorded this song as part of I&W, when the vocals were beyond perfect.

Underrated - Chaos In Motion. If this was released today, people here would be praising the vocals and consider it a good performance for JLB nowadays.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 09, 2018, 02:08:42 PM
Underrated - Chaos In Motion. If this was released today, people here would be praising the vocals and consider it a good performance for JLB nowadays.

I cannot image that ever happening.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: RoeDent on June 09, 2018, 02:20:20 PM
BMUBMD is definitely underrated. He hits notes higher than the revered Learning to Live F#, a full 19 years on from that. That surely deserves more plaudits than it gets.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: The Walrus on June 09, 2018, 05:39:12 PM
Underrated - Chaos In Motion. If this was released today, people here would be praising the vocals and consider it a good performance for JLB nowadays.

I cannot image that ever happening.

I agree. I tried watching it a couple months ago, actually, because I was looking for a certain performance, and holy cow it's bad.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Adami on June 09, 2018, 05:47:53 PM
BMUBMD is definitely underrated. He hits notes higher than the revered Learning to Live F#, a full 19 years on from that. That surely deserves more plaudits than it gets.

Why?
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 10, 2018, 05:48:50 AM
Yeah, I mean, BMUBMD is fun, and it was cool to see those grittier high notes he busts out live actually make it on a record, but the fact that it's a bit higher really isn't super crazy, especially because they're really short staccato notes and it's not like he replicates it live (where it actually would be challenging because it's at the very top of his range). I love a good high note as much as anyone, but there's this real mythos around super-high notes; truth is, once you actually learn how to sing, they really aren't hard. It's the upper midrange stuff that's really tough to get controlled (which is why we see James struggle with that stuff live a lot, whereas he usually gets the LTL F# without much difficulty).
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 18, 2018, 03:58:27 PM
BMUBMD is definitely underrated. He hits notes higher than the revered Learning to Live F#, a full 19 years on from that. That surely deserves more plaudits than it gets.

Strangely, this is one of the many less liked DT songs that I never skip.  :tup
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Evai on June 18, 2018, 05:01:40 PM
David Lee Roth hits notes an octave higher than the F# in LTL, maybe he should be singer next  :D
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Eldomm on June 19, 2018, 12:36:58 AM
Overrated, his live performances in the early 90s. There is way, way, way too much screeching and straining.

This. absolutely this.  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 19, 2018, 04:51:03 PM
Underrated - Chaos In Motion. If this was released today, people here would be praising the vocals and consider it a good performance for JLB nowadays.

I cannot image that ever happening.

Just listened to this and it reminded me of how odd the vocals are.  I don't think this is a James problem as even Portnoy's vocals sound thin and tinny.  A while back a poster suggested that the problem was with a lazy autotune job.  I don't know enough about that but his reasoning sounded like it had merit. 

Anyway, James sounded fine on the tour and probably sounded fine on the original recording but somehow the final production screwed it up. 
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: cramx3 on June 19, 2018, 04:54:33 PM
Underrated - Chaos In Motion. If this was released today, people here would be praising the vocals and consider it a good performance for JLB nowadays.

I cannot image that ever happening.

Just listened to this and it reminded me of how odd the vocals are.  I don't think this is a James problem as even Portnoy's vocals sound thin and tinny.  A while back a poster suggested that the problem was with a lazy autotune job.  I don't know enough about that but his reasoning sounded like it had merit. 

Anyway, James sounded fine on the tour and probably sounded fine on the original recording but somehow the final production screwed it up.

Everything sounds pretty crappy on that release, that's why it's my least favorite.  It looks and sounds more like a bootleg.  I haven't touched it in years though, maybe I would enjoy it more now.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Indiscipline on June 20, 2018, 04:22:52 AM
Funny, I really don't know how the man is rated by general consensus. Bending the rules of engagement I'd say:

Too Much Fuss About: the F# Totem. I feel it's very unfair to let a wonderfully gifted singer and crafty accomplished vocal actor be defined by an athletic milestone.

Not Praised Enough: Six Degrees, Disc 2, dress rehearsals for The Astonishing. Lyrics and genres variety aside, it's James' interpretation that believably builds the whole mental specimens premise.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Adami on June 20, 2018, 04:26:36 AM
Too Much Fuss About: the F# Totem. I feel it's very unfair to let a wonderfully gifted singer and crafty accomplished vocal actor be defined by an athletic milestone.


Yup! Dude is a great singer. Has nothing to do with high notes.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: jonny108 on November 18, 2020, 06:29:28 PM
Just seen this thread.

Overrated: Not sure he is, there are some praising his live early 90's voice like it's the best thing ever when it could be quite harsh.

Underrated: His soft palette.  Songs like Far From Heaven, Vacant, many off of TA etc. His emotional quality is just ridiculous.  I think people think of him as the bloke that could sing really high and can't quite get there anymore - it's not all about range basically. He's always excelled at the ballads. 
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: evilasiojr on November 18, 2020, 07:30:03 PM
Just seen this thread.

Overrated: Not sure he is, there are some praising his live early 90's voice like it's the best thing ever when it could be quite harsh.

Underrated: His soft palette.  Songs like Far From Heaven, Vacant, many off of TA etc. His emotional quality is just ridiculous.  I think people think of him as the bloke that could sing really high and can't quite get there anymore - it's not all about range basically. He's always excelled at the ballads.

Same for me!!

I'd just add, on the more heavier side, his performance on New Millennium. Idk what are people's general impressions from that song in terms of the vocals, but I personally love it!!
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: nikatapi on November 19, 2020, 02:17:45 AM
I think the Astonishing is super-underrated, James did an incredible job on that. But i guess it's underrated as a whole. I also think his performances on ToT are pretty stellar.

I don't think there's anything that can be considered overrated, his pre-injury performances are all incredible, and i think these are the ones that are considered as good overall.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 19, 2020, 09:04:51 AM
I think the Astonishing is super-underrated, James did an incredible job on that. But i guess it's underrated as a whole. I also think his performances on ToT are pretty stellar.

I don't think there's anything that can be considered overrated, his pre-injury performances are all incredible, and i think these are the ones that are considered as good overall.

For me, he hit his absolute peak around the 8vm era. His pre-injury performances weren't really that great to be honest, Yeah sure, he can hit those highs, but they were more screechy and belty than smooth, His vocals also improved in smoothness.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Herrick on November 19, 2020, 07:20:04 PM
I have to agree with those who say fans who don't like The Astonishing still think LaBrie was great on that album.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Architeuthis on November 20, 2020, 09:15:48 AM
Labrie was incredible on The Astonishing tour. I haven't seen DT live since then.  Still the biggest abomination is that tour didn't documented for a video concert release. The lighting and stage show was amazing and Labrie really had his moment in the sun.  It would have been really unique.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: geeeemo on November 20, 2020, 11:25:17 AM
Labrie was incredible on The Astonishing tour. I haven't seen DT live since then.  Still the biggest abomination is that tour didn't documented for a video concert release. The lighting and stage show was amazing and Labrie really had his moment in the sun.  It would have been really unique.

Agree! I saw the show 3x and this show is what got me hooked on Dream Theater!
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: SeRoX on November 20, 2020, 03:29:29 PM
I think his ADTOE vocal performance is underrated. Correct me if I'm wrong but ADTOE is the first time James recording vocals alone. I think  this affected his live performance. During this album tour he was amazing live on every song from ADTOE.

Overrated? To me he is mostly underrated so I can not point out his overrated points.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 20, 2020, 04:11:26 PM
Overrated: Live at the Marquee/Live in Tokyo.

JLB in the early 90s, although an incredible powerhouse, was so inconsistent. I don't like the constant screeching and wailing. I'd take his more controlled, not-as-raspy tone from Score to that any day.

Underrated: The Astonishing.

His performance on that doesn't get as much love as it deserves. He's the absolute star of that album.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Herrick on November 20, 2020, 04:59:48 PM
Overrated: Live at the Marquee/Live in Tokyo.

JLB in the early 90s, although an incredible powerhouse, was so inconsistent. I don't like the constant screeching and wailing. I'd take his more controlled, not-as-raspy tone from Score to that any day.

Same here. I'm not a fan of that "metal" style he used. There's a video on YouTube from a 1992 concert they played in Deer Park, New York and LaBrie used the nice clean singing style. Much better methinks.

Are we allowed to post stuff like that?

Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on November 21, 2020, 10:27:14 AM
Underrated: Octavarium. This album was written to highlight every aspect of the Dream Theater sound, and James responded with a diverse and consistent performance. From the smooth and subdued melodies in The Answer Lies Within, to the Muse-esque falsetto in Panic Attack, to the clean but aggressive delivery in Never Enough, to the entire box of Crayola in the title track, James nailed the different styles required of him for this record, playing a huge role in it ranking so high for me.

Overrated: This is harder to pick, as James is very good at delivering the exact vocal performance required for a given album, and I feel really bad about judging his live performances due to his food poisoning incident, but I'll give the nod to Awake here. This isn't to say that it's bad, as I love his vocals on this album, but in general he had two modes of singing on this one: raspy mids and clean mids. He does it well, and he can't be entirely faulted for the range of the melodies on the record when there were four other guys also writing vocal parts here, but as it stands, he doesn't cover as much ground stylistically as he does on other albums.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Siddhartha on November 30, 2020, 10:44:35 AM
Overrated: No doubt  Learning to Live O-O-O   O-O-O  O-O-OOOOOOOO.
Underrated : I would say his mellow side a la Sorrounded, Goodnight Kiss, etc... seems to get less praise than the Power metal moments, but usually he sings those parts beautifully.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on December 04, 2020, 10:55:34 AM
Overrated: No doubt  Learning to Live O-O-O   O-O-O  O-O-OOOOOOOO.

 :omg:

That's a chessy-amazing-90smetal moment that doesn't get enough praise. It's so climatic and serves so good to the overall arc and narrative of that song.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 04, 2020, 11:24:50 AM

Underrated : I would say his mellow side a la Sorrounded, Goodnight Kiss, etc... seems to get less praise than the Power metal moments, but usually he sings those parts beautifully.

This is where JLB's voice shines the best.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on December 04, 2020, 12:56:06 PM

Underrated : I would say his mellow side a la Sorrounded, Goodnight Kiss, etc... seems to get less praise than the Power metal moments, but usually he sings those parts beautifully.

This is where JLB's voice shines the best.
Yeah, which is why The Astonishing is such a great vocal achievement. JLB sounds amazing all the way through.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: DT1138 on December 04, 2020, 01:20:59 PM
Overrated - I'll say nothing.  JLB takes takes more abuse and criticism than anyone else I've ever heard in my entire life.  Other than we forum people here and one lady I met at a DT show, I don't personally know anyone that loves him let alone likes him.  I've played DT for friends who aren't familiar with them and the first thing out of their mouths is always "You know, the music is great, but that singer...".

Underrated - My idea of a great singer is someone that not only sounds good, but also makes me want to sing along with them.  In this regard, the DT cover of Queen's "Tenement Funster/Flick of the Wrist/Lily of the Valley" comes to mind.  Freddie's voice is probably near impossible to match on the originals, but I think JLB's voice works fairly well on that considering the range, etc.  Close second for me would be "Panic Attack".
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 04, 2020, 01:54:12 PM

Underrated : I would say his mellow side a la Sorrounded, Goodnight Kiss, etc... seems to get less praise than the Power metal moments, but usually he sings those parts beautifully.

This is where JLB's voice shines the best.
Yeah, which is why The Astonishing is such a great vocal achievement. JLB sounds amazing all the way through.

 :tup :tup Also a reason why I quite enjoy The Astonishing. Specifically, Chosen, Begin Again, and The X Factor.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: Skeever on December 04, 2020, 08:05:12 PM
Overrated - Score. He sounds fine, but his voice has such a processed and inhuman quality to it at that points. They did a really good job mixing his vocals in though so that it never sounds bad or anything, I just don't think it deserves all this praise as being his "comeback" live album.

Underrated - LSFNY. Despite not hitting all the notes, his voice has a really full and warm quality to it on this, and he is singing with quite a lot of intensity and emotion.
Title: Re: Most overrated and underrated JLB performance?
Post by: gzarruk on December 04, 2020, 08:35:35 PM
Overrated - I'll say some of his live stuff in the 90s. He was ON FIRE back then, but sometimes it was way too much, he wasn't singing as clean as he would do later on.

Underrated - TA is a good example. I'll say maybe his performances on LALP and BTFW too. I don't know how much studio magic was applied to his vocal performance for those live releases, but he sounds really good on both.