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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: TAC on May 22, 2018, 07:42:26 PM

Title: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on May 22, 2018, 07:42:26 PM
Apologies if there's another thread somewhere...

But I wanted to talk about John Petrucci, and where most people rank him all time and such...

I mean I expect most of us here rank him right near the top, but where would you put him among what are considered the classic greats. Certainly Dream Theater's discography stacks up against anyone's.



What got me thinking was the Thin Lizzy thread in GMD. Which always leads me to a Gary Moore binge. Now I've been a Dream Theater fan for a looooong time, and I have never heard JP cite Gary Moore as an influence. Yet he is the one guitarist that I constantly hear in JP's playing. I mean the chops and the speed, the emotion, and the technical ability. I consider Gary Moore the greatest guitarist I've ever heard, but frankly, I put John Petrucci right up there.

JP plays some Rush like passages for sure, but I'm not sure what other influences really come out in JP's playing. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? He cites Steve Morse as an influence, but personally, I don't know enough of Morse's work to hear it in JP. To the better educated, is Morse present in JP's playing?

If you had to describe JP's style to a friend, how would you do it?
Can anyone else vouch for the Gary Moore influence?
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 22, 2018, 07:47:04 PM
He was number 4 when I did my favorite guitarists countdown list a couple years ago, so that speaks to how awesome I think he is, especially since I am generally not a huge fan of shredders.  He has more great solos than you can shake a stick at, and while his tendency to overplay live can be a bit maddening at times, I can usually overlook it.  A world class talent.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on May 22, 2018, 07:58:43 PM
He was number 4 when I did my favorite guitarists countdown list a couple years ago,

Who were your Top 3?
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 22, 2018, 07:59:38 PM
He was number 4 when I did my favorite guitarists countdown list a couple years ago,

Who were your Top 3?

Alex Lifeson
David Gilmour
Roine Stolt
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on May 22, 2018, 08:00:21 PM
Who is Roine Stolt?
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Cool Chris on May 22, 2018, 08:36:14 PM
The guy who sings like a haughty British butler in Transatlantic.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Architeuthis on May 22, 2018, 09:36:57 PM
Roine Stolts main band is the Flower Kings.
 John Petrucci is the best guitarist of all time imo,  hands down "The King of Strings"! He's rightfully earned that title in my book.  :metal
Others are Alex Lifeson, Trevor Rabin, David Gilmour, Gary Pihl, and so many others..
Ron (Bumblefoot) Thal,  has made quite an impression on me lately..
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: gzarruk on May 22, 2018, 10:25:59 PM
I think the Steve Morse influence comes more from a technique perspective over a musical/melodic application. John always talks about how useful to him were the alternate picking exercises he learned on a SM clinic while he was on Berklee. JP developed his own sound, but the technique approach he got form Steve remains present. Still, I always thought his solo during the baroque-esque part on Illumination Theory sounded inspired by Steve Morse, for example.

Other big influences he always mentions are Alex Lifeson (this one is pretty obvious), James Hetfield/Metallica for the tight rhythm guitar playing and sound, and Al Di Meola (that bass and guitar part in the middle of Raise the Knife always reminded me of Di Meola's playing).

On my personal guitarists ranking, Petrucci  is #1. He has all the chops and speed to be an overkill shredder like Yngwie, but he ALWAYS plays with the right amount of emotion/feel and melodic sense, instead of just playing a thousand notes for the sake of it. Others I really like are Guthrie Govan and Kiko Loureiro. Bumblefoot is very very very good too.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 23, 2018, 06:52:59 AM
I think the Steve Morse influence comes more from a technique perspective over a musical/melodic application. John always talks about how useful to him were the alternate picking exercises he learned on a SM clinic while he was on Berklee. JP developed his own sound, but the technique approach he got form Steve remains present. Still, I always thought his solo during the baroque-esque part on Illumination Theory sounded inspired by Steve Morse, for example.

Other big influences he always mentions are Alex Lifeson (this one is pretty obvious), James Hetfield/Metallica for the tight rhythm guitar playing and sound, and Al Di Meola (that bass and guitar part in the middle of Raise the Knife always reminded me of Di Meola's playing).

On my personal guitarists ranking, Petrucci  is #1. He has all the chops and speed to be an overkill shredder like Yngwie, but he ALWAYS plays with the right amount of emotion/feel and melodic sense, instead of just playing a thousand notes for the sake of it. Others I really like are Guthrie Govan and Kiko Loureiro. Bumblefoot is very very very good too.

Good post. I agree with pretty much all that.

Personally, I think Alex Lifeson and James Hetfield are his most obvious influences. He spends the majority of the music playing rhythm parts and Alex's chord voicings and James' power chord work shine through as big influences on JP.

When it comes to leads, JP is an interesting case. I think that's where guys like Steve Morse have influenced him, but he's pretty unique in that he meshed together the technicality of a guy like Morse, shredders like EVH or Hammett, etc... and melodic players like Gilmore. The primary thing that has always attracted me to JP's work is the balance of technical, shred, melody, feel, etc... I feel like he grabbed parts of a bunch of styles and put them together in a way I've never heard any other player. 

He did a video lesson series with Guitar World recently, where he breaks down how he develops parts and talks specifically about the influences on his playing. It's a good watch even for non-guitar players -

Episode 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJx9Kft4NuQ

Episode 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5lRLQPMZ3M

Episode 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF0O4qBfXuY

Episode 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m3OHVPa1kk

Episode 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pUnrsHGgqE

Episode 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGnEy9COP88

If memory serves, particularly in Episodes 3 and 4 (and maybe 2) he goes into some pretty interesting detail as to how he heard bands or guitar players doing certain things and combined those things together to create "his" sound.

Oh and yea, I'd say JP is my favorite guitar player ever. I don't know enough of Gary Moore's stuff to make the connection, I'll have to check out more of his work.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Ninjabait on May 23, 2018, 07:01:31 AM
The three biggest influences I hear in his solos are probably David Gilmour from Pink Floyd (especially on slower songs, which are just dripping with Gilmour influence), Alex Lifeson from Rush, and classic metal bands like Metallica and Pantera.

As far as how I rank him, overall he's my favorite but I like certain aspects of other guitarists more. Joe Duplantier and Christian Andreau from Gojira are probably my favorite rhythm guitarists. For lead guitarists/solos, I'm a bit all over the place lol. I like Michael Romeo, Benjamin Baret (Ne Obliviscaris), and Steve Howe a lot off the top of my head.

In terms of how he compares to other guitarists? I'd say near the top. In terms of technics, he's outclassed by Tosin Abasi and Herman Li for sure, but he's better at playing more lyrical passages. For lyrical passages, he's probably outclassed by Steve Howe and David Gilmour but his "technical" playing is much better than there's imo. He's a really good jack of all trades, and definitely one of the most influential guitarists of the modern era. I think it says a lot that he pushed guitar playing to a new level, which has almost become the standard now. I hear a LOT of bands even outside of prog that are approaching the level of playing that he's established. I don't think he's THE greatest guitarist in history, but he's definitely near the top.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: rumborak on May 23, 2018, 08:37:00 AM
Yeah, definitely occupies the #1 spot for me. Technique-wise he is one of the most versatile guitarists I know, and has a great knack for combining melody and technicality. The one aspect I wouldn't consider him #1 is his actual guitar sound. As time has passed it has become more and more processed.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 23, 2018, 08:44:47 AM
The three biggest influences I hear in his solos are probably David Gilmour from Pink Floyd (especially on slower songs, which are just dripping with Gilmour influence), Alex Lifeson from Rush, and classic metal bands like Metallica and Pantera.

As far as how I rank him, overall he's my favorite but I like certain aspects of other guitarists more. Joe Duplantier and Christian Andreau from Gojira are probably my favorite rhythm guitarists. For lead guitarists/solos, I'm a bit all over the place lol. I like Michael Romeo, Benjamin Baret (Ne Obliviscaris), and Steve Howe a lot off the top of my head.

In terms of how he compares to other guitarists? I'd say near the top. In terms of technics, he's outclassed by Tosin Abasi and Herman Li for sure, but he's better at playing more lyrical passages. For lyrical passages, he's probably outclassed by Steve Howe and David Gilmour but his "technical" playing is much better than there's imo. He's a really good jack of all trades, and definitely one of the most influential guitarists of the modern era. I think it says a lot that he pushed guitar playing to a new level, which has almost become the standard now. I hear a LOT of bands even outside of prog that are approaching the level of playing that he's established. I don't think he's THE greatest guitarist in history, but he's definitely near the top.

Good post, the one part that made me pause is bolded. Tosin is awesome, I love his music and his playing in general. He certainly has expanded techniques and is very innovative, but often times live he struggles to play those things cleanly. It's kinda subtracted some of the lure for me.

Yeah, definitely occupies the #1 spot for me. Technique-wise he is one of the most versatile guitarists I know, and has a great knack for combining melody and technicality. The one aspect I wouldn't consider him #1 is his actual guitar sound. As time has passed it has become more and more processed.

That's true, for me, JP's best tone was probably FII through to SDOIT. He's had some good stuff before and since but some live rigs and studio work has sounded better than others. His sound is a little over processed for me these days, but in the room, live, it still sounds great to me.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Dublagent66 on May 23, 2018, 11:48:04 AM
Yeah, all the ones mentioned so far are definitely there, but Neal Schon is the one I hear the most.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Anxiety35 on May 23, 2018, 03:28:42 PM
He's near the top. You can put him there with Vai, Satriani, Gilmour, Clapton, Jeff Beck, etc. He's that good. Not just because he can shred but how he writes and plays the instrument shows he's in another league. He's one of those guys who can pretty much do it all on a guitar.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Kattelox on May 23, 2018, 03:34:01 PM
He's one of my favorites, but I just wish he was more prolific. He doesn't do anything outside of Dream Theater. He has so much talent and I'd love to see him just... explore genres, you know? It seems like such a waste to restrict yourself to only one project your whole life.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: gzarruk on May 23, 2018, 08:22:55 PM
He's one of my favorites, but I just wish he was more prolific. He doesn't do anything outside of Dream Theater. He has so much talent and I'd love to see him just... explore genres, you know? It seems like such a waste to restrict yourself to only one project your whole life.

Mike Portnoy agrees with your post :rollin
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on May 23, 2018, 08:23:30 PM
 :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Lethean on May 23, 2018, 08:50:15 PM
Hmm... bringing up MP is interesting.  If I had to choose between their approaches, I'd have to go with JP.  There are certain things that MP has done post DT that I really enjoy, but for the most part I wonder if he'd come up with something better (or I should say, more to my tastes), if he had fewer projects. 

I wouldn't at all mind another solo album from JP (especially after seeing his crushing G3 set), but if all the delays are because of what he's doing with DT, I'm all for it.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 23, 2018, 09:01:08 PM
He's one of my favorites, but I just wish he was more prolific. He doesn't do anything outside of Dream Theater. He has so much talent and I'd love to see him just... explore genres, you know? It seems like such a waste to restrict yourself to only one project your whole life.

He hasn't restricted himself to one project his whole life.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Kattelox on May 23, 2018, 10:09:19 PM
He's one of my favorites, but I just wish he was more prolific. He doesn't do anything outside of Dream Theater. He has so much talent and I'd love to see him just... explore genres, you know? It seems like such a waste to restrict yourself to only one project your whole life.

He hasn't restricted himself to one project his whole life.

Okay, if we're going to get pedantic, Liquid Tension Experiment, yes, decades ago, but all but one person involved were also in Dream Theater, it was writing DT-ish jams without James in the mix. Then his one solo album. 13 years ago. I'm not saying he needs to be like MP - not all musicians are like that, thankfully - I'm saying I personally wish he'd make the most of his exceptional gift and do 'more' than he has done. Spread his wings a bit. Collab with others on a studio album or have a side band, I dunno. I would just like to hear more from the legend than just in Dream Theater every couple years.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Lax on May 24, 2018, 12:27:32 AM
JP is #1 for me too, and even more #1 when he is along a pianist like rudess (for more style exploration and creativity).

He riffs from trashy to popy
He masters every technique, people said he is weaker sweeping, I'm not sure, but on the other hand he can play so fast...
His inspirations comes from classical type arpeggiating to neoclassical tremolo picking and legato, plus prog, hard rock, jazzy chords sometimes...

The words complete musician couldn't be more true, it feels like he absorbed good traits of most iconic guitarists, added to a great touch and music theory.

The only complain I can understand is that some people feels like things are too processed and nicely done, making the reputation of "robotic" playing with less feeling.
But once you're touched by several moments of grace, it's less a thing.

Too much is the ennemy of good, but some of us can handle too much :)
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Architeuthis on May 24, 2018, 03:21:55 AM
He's one of my favorites, but I just wish he was more prolific. He doesn't do anything outside of Dream Theater. He has so much talent and I'd love to see him just... explore genres, you know? It seems like such a waste to restrict yourself to only one project your whole life.

He hasn't restricted himself to one project his whole life.

Okay, if we're going to get pedantic, Liquid Tension Experiment, yes, decades ago, but all but one person involved were also in Dream Theater, it was writing DT-ish jams without James in the mix. Then his one solo album. 13 years ago. I'm not saying he needs to be like MP - not all musicians are like that, thankfully - I'm saying I personally wish he'd make the most of his exceptional gift and do 'more' than he has done. Spread his wings a bit. Collab with others on a studio album or have a side band, I dunno. I would just like to hear more from the legend than just in Dream Theater every couple years.
He's also done G3 several times.  In a band like Dream Theater, it would be difficult to find the time for other projects. Really no need for him to spread himself thin when he does what he does best with DT. Look at other guitarists like Alex Lifeson, he hasn't done much outside of Rush either.  What's the point, when you can be making a great career in your respective band?
 However there are exceptions, a good example being Mike Lepond's Silent Assassins, the solo project from the bass player of Symphony X.  Now that is someone spreading their wings.  :metal
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: ReaperKK on May 24, 2018, 05:13:11 AM
JP is one of my favorite guitar players. To me he is extremely talented but also well rounded. There are a lot of virtuoso's that seem to be one trick pony's. While JP isn't my favorite guitar player (Guthrie is) he is still one of my favorite guitar players to watch and listen to.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Nekov on May 24, 2018, 06:06:45 AM
As far as guitarists go studio JP is quite high in my list. As you guys have said before, he has it all. However live is a different thing since in my opinion he tends to overplay quite a bit and if I'm being honest there hasn't been a JP solo that has caught my attention for being original for a long time now. I sometimes wish he would go back to playing simpler things like he did on I&W or Awake where his sound was a lot cleaner.
Speaking of clean sounds, I have to mention Robert Fripp since no one else has. I know the things he plays are very hit or miss but what has always amazed me is how clean his guitar sounds even when playing at high speeds, particularly in the song Frame by Frame. He is definitely one of my favorites.

He's one of my favorites, but I just wish he was more prolific. He doesn't do anything outside of Dream Theater. He has so much talent and I'd love to see him just... explore genres, you know? It seems like such a waste to restrict yourself to only one project your whole life.

He hasn't restricted himself to one project his whole life.

Okay, if we're going to get pedantic, Liquid Tension Experiment, yes, decades ago, but all but one person involved were also in Dream Theater, it was writing DT-ish jams without James in the mix. Then his one solo album. 13 years ago. I'm not saying he needs to be like MP - not all musicians are like that, thankfully - I'm saying I personally wish he'd make the most of his exceptional gift and do 'more' than he has done. Spread his wings a bit. Collab with others on a studio album or have a side band, I dunno. I would just like to hear more from the legend than just in Dream Theater every couple years.

He's also been part of Explorer's club along with JLB and there's that amazing album they did with Jordan. But for the most part I agree with you, DT is his life and he'll sometimes do other things.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 24, 2018, 06:29:24 AM
He's one of my favorites, but I just wish he was more prolific. He doesn't do anything outside of Dream Theater. He has so much talent and I'd love to see him just... explore genres, you know? It seems like such a waste to restrict yourself to only one project your whole life.

He hasn't restricted himself to one project his whole life.

Okay, if we're going to get pedantic, Liquid Tension Experiment, yes, decades ago, but all but one person involved were also in Dream Theater, it was writing DT-ish jams without James in the mix. Then his one solo album. 13 years ago. I'm not saying he needs to be like MP - not all musicians are like that, thankfully - I'm saying I personally wish he'd make the most of his exceptional gift and do 'more' than he has done. Spread his wings a bit. Collab with others on a studio album or have a side band, I dunno. I would just like to hear more from the legend than just in Dream Theater every couple years.

Dream Theater is a full time job.

Think of it this way: for a person with a normal work week, DT is his 40 hours a week job.  How many 40 hours a week people work other jobs in their spare time?  Probably not many, and I am guessing those who do, do it for financial reasons (they need the money).  I doubt JP needs the money, so maybe he wants to spend his down time enjoying life and relaxing a little, rather than constantly being on the go.  Constantly being on the go can cause burnout, and I think it is fair to say that that is what happened with Mike Portnoy eight years ago, and Petrucci is not blind to that.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 24, 2018, 06:40:21 AM
He's one of my favorites, but I just wish he was more prolific. He doesn't do anything outside of Dream Theater. He has so much talent and I'd love to see him just... explore genres, you know? It seems like such a waste to restrict yourself to only one project your whole life.

He hasn't restricted himself to one project his whole life.

Okay, if we're going to get pedantic, Liquid Tension Experiment, yes, decades ago, but all but one person involved were also in Dream Theater, it was writing DT-ish jams without James in the mix. Then his one solo album. 13 years ago. I'm not saying he needs to be like MP - not all musicians are like that, thankfully - I'm saying I personally wish he'd make the most of his exceptional gift and do 'more' than he has done. Spread his wings a bit. Collab with others on a studio album or have a side band, I dunno. I would just like to hear more from the legend than just in Dream Theater every couple years.

Dream Theater is a full time job.

Think of it this way: for a person with a normal work week, DT is his 40 hours a week job.  How many 40 hours a week people work other jobs in their spare time?  Probably not many, and I am guessing those who do, do it for financial reasons (they need the money).  I doubt JP needs the money, so maybe he wants to spend his down time enjoying life and relaxing a little, rather than constantly being on the go.  Constantly being on the go can cause burnout, and I think it is fair to say that that is what happened with Mike Portnoy eight years ago, and Petrucci is not blind to that.

Yup, I totally agree Kev. JP has always struck me as a wise guy, he's certainly not blind to what caused things to go down with MP like they did.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Kattelox on May 24, 2018, 07:06:17 AM
He's one of my favorites, but I just wish he was more prolific. He doesn't do anything outside of Dream Theater. He has so much talent and I'd love to see him just... explore genres, you know? It seems like such a waste to restrict yourself to only one project your whole life.

He hasn't restricted himself to one project his whole life.

Okay, if we're going to get pedantic, Liquid Tension Experiment, yes, decades ago, but all but one person involved were also in Dream Theater, it was writing DT-ish jams without James in the mix. Then his one solo album. 13 years ago. I'm not saying he needs to be like MP - not all musicians are like that, thankfully - I'm saying I personally wish he'd make the most of his exceptional gift and do 'more' than he has done. Spread his wings a bit. Collab with others on a studio album or have a side band, I dunno. I would just like to hear more from the legend than just in Dream Theater every couple years.

Dream Theater is a full time job.

Think of it this way: for a person with a normal work week, DT is his 40 hours a week job.  How many 40 hours a week people work other jobs in their spare time?  Probably not many, and I am guessing those who do, do it for financial reasons (they need the money).  I doubt JP needs the money, so maybe he wants to spend his down time enjoying life and relaxing a little, rather than constantly being on the go.  Constantly being on the go can cause burnout, and I think it is fair to say that that is what happened with Mike Portnoy eight years ago, and Petrucci is not blind to that.

I am, quite literally, simply saying that I just want to hear more music from him. That's it. I get all of that. I'm not oblivious. I just want to hear more of his work.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on May 24, 2018, 12:33:44 PM
It seems like such a waste to restrict yourself to only one project your whole life.

I don't know about that.  Other than Bruce and Adrian having left Maiden briefly to pursue solo careers, none of the members of Iron Maiden have done much of anything (musically) outside of the band (all of them obviously have a number of personal interests, as does John Petrucci).  Doesn't seem like a waste to me.

Other than the single solo albums that Alex Lifeson and Geddy Lee released in 1996 and 200, respectively, none of the members of Rush have done much of anything (musically) outside of the band (I suppose we could talk about Geddy working with the McKenzie Bros. and Alex appearing as a guest musician on a few odd songs here and there, but really....).  Doesn't seem like a waste to me.

Petrucci focuses on DT, which, compared to a lot of bands who only release new albums every 5+ years, is an incredibly prolific band.  If you got more from Petrucci outside of DT, we'd all probably get less of DT.  Getting more non-DT material from Petrucci while still getting the same level of DT output would probably have a very negative effect on DT.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Kattelox on May 24, 2018, 12:35:07 PM
But DT isn't anywhere close to as big as Rush or Maiden. And I'm also not nearly as fanatical about Maiden's individual members or Rush's individual members.

Guys, I can't be clearer: I simply like JP a lot and want to hear more from him than simply DT records. That is purely my (selfish, subjective) wish.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Podaar on May 24, 2018, 01:58:39 PM
I get what you're saying Kattoelox and I agree. I think it's obvious that JP has tons of musical ideas outside the confines of Dream Theater (as witnessed by The Astonishing). I'd love to hear them too.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: gzarruk on May 24, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
I’d like to see him start a new project with people he’s never worked before, like a band with a female singer, for example. Or maybe, since he’s also a producer, why not produce another band’s albums? But since he’s always said the reason he hasn’t released a 2nd solo album is because he hasn’t found the time to record it, I highly doubt any of these things will happen. Still, I’m glad DT has been his main focus for more than 30 years.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Lethean on May 24, 2018, 04:52:41 PM
But DT isn't anywhere close to as big as Rush or Maiden. And I'm also not nearly as fanatical about Maiden's individual members or Rush's individual members.

Guys, I can't be clearer: I simply like JP a lot and want to hear more from him than simply DT records. That is purely my (selfish, subjective) wish.  :facepalm:

DT may not be as "big" as those bands, but they're just as busy; maybe even more so.  Wanting more JP is totally cool, imo.  What I think people are objecting to is the idea that it's somehow a waste.  I know he's said on more than one occasion that DT is creatively fullfilling and it's basically a dream situation for him.  If he's living out his dream, it's not a waste at all. 
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 24, 2018, 06:36:00 PM

I am, quite literally, simply saying that I just want to hear more music from him. That's it. I get all of that. I'm not oblivious. I just want to hear more of his work.

I hear ya.  However, he has been pretty prolific when you add up all of his albums.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Kattelox on May 24, 2018, 06:43:24 PM
But DT isn't anywhere close to as big as Rush or Maiden. And I'm also not nearly as fanatical about Maiden's individual members or Rush's individual members.

Guys, I can't be clearer: I simply like JP a lot and want to hear more from him than simply DT records. That is purely my (selfish, subjective) wish.  :facepalm:

DT may not be as "big" as those bands, but they're just as busy; maybe even more so.  Wanting more JP is totally cool, imo.  What I think people are objecting to is the idea that it's somehow a waste.  I know he's said on more than one occasion that DT is creatively fullfilling and it's basically a dream situation for him.  If he's living out his dream, it's not a waste at all.

From this fan's perspective it is a waste in the sense that there could always be more, so there.   :lol
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Lethean on May 24, 2018, 07:54:25 PM
Well, there *is* always more.  Maybe not more albums, but there's always more to learn. And there's always more to know...
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on May 24, 2018, 07:57:46 PM
Well, there *is* always more.  Maybe not more albums, but there's always more to learn. And there's always more to know...
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dreamworks/images/2/2c/Master-shifu-5.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090920102553)
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Kattelox on May 24, 2018, 08:26:52 PM
I understood that reference.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on May 25, 2018, 09:59:26 AM
Oh for god's sake!  The man has meat to smoke and iron to pump!   :biggrin:
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: 7enderbender on May 26, 2018, 08:37:23 PM
Interesting question and many good replies so far. As a guitar player myself and DT fan from the very early days I regard him highly for a number of reasons: impact on the style and making it way bigger/bringing it really into existence, tone and skill level, equipment development.
Other than that I always cringe a bit when this turns into a competition. There really are no winners and losers here and there are so many great players of all styles. So the rankings are meaningless to me.
Other than pure skill I love the emotions he gets across together with the test of the band. And I always am at a loss when I hear ye olde blues players complain in their socks, sandals and cargo shorts that he (and others) play so fast and that all those effects and distortion and seven strings are totally unnecessary (citing Clapton as exhibit A).
My only criticism would be that things can become a bit problematic in my book when he owns the complete writing process and writing of lyrics. There are a few juvenile moments that could have prevented with more editing by other band members or producers. Maybe that would have spared us the entire last album.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: gzarruk on May 26, 2018, 09:50:54 PM
Expanding a bit more on the Al Di Meola influence topic, I was listening to some old Di Meola tunes and found this very interesting thing:

Race with the Devil on Spanish Highway has a riff (https://youtu.be/b0aMCpRZPZE?t=2m18s) that sounds very very very similar to this JP riff (https://youtu.be/xWnDCYDlBYw?t=4m17s).
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Peter1960 on May 27, 2018, 02:41:01 AM
This has been an interesting thread which I have enjoyed being a guitarist myself.

For me, the sign of the really great guitarist is their versatility. Several guitarists are usually mentioned as being “great” due to what they do in the context of their bands music. Dave Gilmour does fantastic dreamy melodic solos, Angus Young plays great blues based solos within a hard rock structure.

However, could Dave Gilmour play “Eruption”? Could Angus Young play “The Dance of Eternity”   ? Could Eric Clapton play “Flight of the Wounded Bumble Bee ?
If Guitarist A could not play some of Guitarist B’s parts, are they considered inferior to Guitarist B ? Or is the ability of Guitarist A in terms of “what they do” considered more important in establishing “greatness”?

In my opinion, the greatest guitarist who ever lived is Gary Moore. He could play rock, metal, jazz, fusion and blues, but also had the ability to write songs. However, I believe that what really sets him apart from everyone else is his skill with melody and feel.

For me, a guitarist who cannot or does not play melodic or tasteful solos will never be truly great.  A lot of guitarists will agree with me when I say that it is easier to play a flashy, fast solo then a melodic solo – after acquiring a decent amount of technique, anyone can play a fast run using picked notes or legato, or both, but playing a great melodic solo that really moves people is NOT easy to do. Gary was a master in this type of playing.

However, I have never heard Yngwie or EVH play consistently tasteful melodic guitar. Some people might say that it isn’t in their style, or the musical style or sound of their band doesn’t lend itself to incorporating melodic parts in their songs. So, are we then going back to what I said at the beginning, whereby guitarists are judged on what they do in the context of their bands music and are considered great by what they CAN do, rather than what they CAN’T do ?

Lets consider JP. Amongst metal guitarists, he is the best in my opinion; not only can he riff, shred and play power chords better than the rest, he has other strings to his bow. He can play complex intricate parts in the prog vein, plus, he is also a great melodic guitarist who can display the “feel” that I like to hear (Lines in the Sand, Breaking All Illusions, The Spirit Carries On, The Best of Times, end of Octavarium, to name but a few). However, I would argue that we haven’t seen the versatility that Gary Moore has displayed, or even that JP is probably capable of.

Could JP play fusion ? Almost certainly – he has the technique for it and Al Dimeola is one of his influences. Could he play blues ? I am typing this listening to “Since I’ve Been Loving You” from the “Uncovered 2003-2005” album. Great guitar work – although possibly a little overplayed.

Using my earlier principle of “can Guitarist A play all of Guitarist B’s parts ?” – is there anything that JP can’t play as well as someone else ? Is he “slower” than Herman Li ? Possibly, but arguably JP is the better “all round” player. So, at the end of the day, it comes down to versatility – or at least in my book.

Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: ReaperKK on May 27, 2018, 06:26:32 AM
JP is a very versatile player but he has his style and he sticks to it, most players do. However to be great I don't think it's a necessity to be able to play the parts of other great players, i.e. people like Andy McKee and Michael Kelsey would take JP to task on his acoustic chops. I think being a great guitarist is more about having a voice than anything else.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 27, 2018, 06:31:43 AM
Agreed. Being able or unable to play someone else's parts means jack squat, if you ask me. David Gilmour could never play Eddie Van Halen's parts, but so what?  Good luck getting Eddie Van Halen to write a solo as universal as Comfortably Numb.  And I am big fan of EVH the guitar player (not the person).
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on May 27, 2018, 07:07:07 AM
In my opinion, the greatest guitarist who ever lived is Gary Moore. He could play rock, metal, jazz, fusion and blues, but also had the ability to write songs. However, I believe that what really sets him apart from everyone else is his skill with melody and feel.

For me, a guitarist who cannot or does not play melodic or tasteful solos will never be truly great.  A lot of guitarists will agree with me when I say that it is easier to play a flashy, fast solo then a melodic solo – after acquiring a decent amount of technique, anyone can play a fast run using picked notes or legato, or both, but playing a great melodic solo that really moves people is NOT easy to do. Gary was a master in this type of playing.

Peter, my brother, you must've read the OP!

I'm on a Gary Moore kick, and what is amazing about him is, especially live, is that he has many extended solos that just seem to flow. He always seems to know exactly where he's going with perfect execution.

Lets consider JP. Amongst metal guitarists, he is the best in my opinion; not only can he riff, shred and play power chords better than the rest, he has other strings to his bow. He can play complex intricate parts in the prog vein, plus, he is also a great melodic guitarist who can display the “feel” that I like to hear (Lines in the Sand, Breaking All Illusions, The Spirit Carries On, The Best of Times, end of Octavarium, to name but a few). However, I would argue that we haven’t seen the versatility that Gary Moore has displayed, or even that JP is probably capable of.

Could JP play fusion ? Almost certainly – he has the technique for it and Al Dimeola is one of his influences. Could he play blues ? I am typing this listening to “Since I’ve Been Loving You” from the “Uncovered 2003-2005” album. Great guitar work – although possibly a little overplayed.

As high of esteem that I hold Gary Moore, I actually consider JP right up there. To me, he's this generation's Gary Moore. His melodic note holding solos really set him apart and totally reminds me of Moore. His playing across the board is so amazing.
He basically does so much with his DT playing, but I would love to hear him do some other things.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: rumborak on May 27, 2018, 08:19:49 AM
Completely agree on all being said here, but I must confess that I wish he ventured more out of his comfort zone playing-wise. The last time he used a Strat was 20 years ago I think.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: AngelBack on May 31, 2018, 09:02:06 AM
I think we all agree that JP is in a pretty elite group of guitarists.  I have often wondered if he could have abandoned his "baby" (ref a different thread :biggrin:) and put himself on the market as a hired gun for a bigger name band and gotten more mainstream exposure and a fatter wallet.  And what band would he have been a good fit for?
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: ReaperKK on May 31, 2018, 10:43:48 AM
Completely agree on all being said here, but I must confess that I wish he ventured more out of his comfort zone playing-wise. The last time he used a Strat was 20 years ago I think.

I agree with you. I found his playing was a lot more varied in the 90s and early 00’s
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: gzarruk on May 31, 2018, 01:54:02 PM
I think we all agree that JP is in a pretty elite group of guitarists.  I have often wondered if he could have abandoned his "baby" (ref a different thread :biggrin:) and put himself on the market as a hired gun for a bigger name band and gotten more mainstream exposure and a fatter wallet.  And what band would he have been a good fit for?

Like Nuno did playing with Rihanna? I don't think that'd be a good idea :\
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on May 31, 2018, 01:55:57 PM
I think we all agree that JP is in a pretty elite group of guitarists.  I have often wondered if he could have abandoned his "baby" (ref a different thread :biggrin:) and put himself on the market as a hired gun for a bigger name band and gotten more mainstream exposure and a fatter wallet.  And what band would he have been a good fit for?

Like Nuno did playing with Rihanna? I don't think that'd be a good idea :\

Katy Perry feat. John Petrucci.  Bosk, please relay this so it happens.  It NEEDS to happen!
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: bosk1 on May 31, 2018, 02:01:43 PM
:lol  Hey, there are lots of solid rock and/or metal guitarists that have taken full-time or part-time gigs backing up pop stars.  I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing.  First one I can directly recall being aware of was Stef Burns signing on with Huey Lewis and the News, and separately signing on as the guitar player for an Italian pop star whose name escapes me at the moment.  Wouldn't bother me.  And I don't think it should.  It is a good paycheck, steady work, probably a lot of fun, and you get to play in front of some pretty big crowds.  If a guitarist wants to do that, more power to him/her.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: gzarruk on May 31, 2018, 02:48:54 PM
I think we all agree that JP is in a pretty elite group of guitarists.  I have often wondered if he could have abandoned his "baby" (ref a different thread :biggrin:) and put himself on the market as a hired gun for a bigger name band and gotten more mainstream exposure and a fatter wallet.  And what band would he have been a good fit for?

Like Nuno did playing with Rihanna? I don't think that'd be a good idea :\

Katy Perry feat. John Petrucci.  Bosk, please relay this so it happens.  It NEEDS to happen!

Only if he gets to wear one of those shark suits while playing
(https://img.wennermedia.com/article-leads-horizontal/left-shark-talks-katy-perry-5cf18140-ccbf-47cb-8108-0f4077932014.jpg)
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Ninjabait on May 31, 2018, 02:50:57 PM
I think we all agree that JP is in a pretty elite group of guitarists.  I have often wondered if he could have abandoned his "baby" (ref a different thread :biggrin:) and put himself on the market as a hired gun for a bigger name band and gotten more mainstream exposure and a fatter wallet.  And what band would he have been a good fit for?

Like Nuno did playing with Rihanna? I don't think that'd be a good idea :\

Katy Perry feat. John Petrucci.  Bosk, please relay this so it happens.  It NEEDS to happen!

I think JP would be a better fit on a Lady Gaga, Demi Lovato, Ariana Grande, or Adele song tbh. I think he would overshadow Katy Perry who doesn't really have the vocal chops to balance out JP. He would really shine best on a more powerful singer's track, especially something upbeat and a hair more dramatic. Something like Demi Lovato's Confident would fit really well for a JP guest solo tbh
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: tristl on May 31, 2018, 09:53:00 PM
:lol  Hey, there are lots of solid rock and/or metal guitarists that have taken full-time or part-time gigs backing up pop stars.  I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing.  First one I can directly recall being aware of was Stef Burns signing on with Huey Lewis and the News, and separately signing on as the guitar player for an Italian pop star whose name escapes me at the moment.  Wouldn't bother me.  And I don't think it should.  It is a good paycheck, steady work, probably a lot of fun, and you get to play in front of some pretty big crowds.  If a guitarist wants to do that, more power to him/her.
The italian Singer he plays for(since very many years now) is Vasco Rossi, in my eyes „the“ italian Rock Star, he plays stadiums, last year a open air in Modena with 220 000 thousend people attending, very cool guy, you have to check him out :tup
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: vtgrad on June 01, 2018, 01:13:10 PM
I tell my wife all the time (while I'm reaching to turn down my amp a bit) that I could listen to JP play for hours and not be bored with him... I love his style as he was my influence in picking the instrument up myself when I was 12.  His sweeps are awesome to me as well; maybe eclipsed by Waggoner in just the slightest bit.

I put him right up there with Gilmour (as mentioned many times in this thread), Page (I hear some acoustic Page influence with JP; think Along for the Ride), Satch, Vai (who i do sometimes find a little... sloppy), and Hendrix... actually, JP and Gilmour are probably tied for my #1 spot.  Funny how one influences the other and there is still a marked difference between them.

Got to mention Paul Waggoner (who is influenced by JP and Vai) and Romeo too.  Give an honorable mention to Tosin because of the uniqueness of his slap style and seamlessly working it in with traditional shred and sweep style.

I don't know Gary Moore's sound and style enough to comment on his influence on JP, but I think that JP can be described as taking the very best parts of his influences and mashing them together to make his own voice... as another post said, I've never heard anyone else do this and still sound unique. 
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: bosk1 on June 01, 2018, 01:41:23 PM
:lol  Hey, there are lots of solid rock and/or metal guitarists that have taken full-time or part-time gigs backing up pop stars.  I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing.  First one I can directly recall being aware of was Stef Burns signing on with Huey Lewis and the News, and separately signing on as the guitar player for an Italian pop star whose name escapes me at the moment.  Wouldn't bother me.  And I don't think it should.  It is a good paycheck, steady work, probably a lot of fun, and you get to play in front of some pretty big crowds.  If a guitarist wants to do that, more power to him/her.
The italian Singer he plays for(since very many years now) is Vasco Rossi, in my eyes „the“ italian Rock Star, he plays stadiums, last year a open air in Modena with 220 000 thousend people attending, very cool guy, you have to check him out :tup

Yes, that's the one.  Thanks!  :tup  I couldn't recall the name off the top of my head. 
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on June 01, 2018, 08:49:57 PM
Listening to my Astonishing Abridged right now. JP's solo in When Your Time Has Come is sneaky amazing.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: pcs90 on June 01, 2018, 09:45:47 PM
One album where JP really shines in my opinion, which I don't think has been mentioned on this thread yet, is An  Evening With JP and JR. Some fantastic stuff on there and he's stretching a lot more than in an average DT show.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 04, 2018, 08:54:08 AM
One album where JP really shines in my opinion, which I don't think has been mentioned on this thread yet, is An  Evening With JP and JR. Some fantastic stuff on there and he's stretching a lot more than in an average DT show.

Fantastic album. I still spin it from time to time. My buddies and I used to joke that "In the Moment" was JP making his case for being the greatest guitarist on the planet.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Podaar on June 04, 2018, 12:32:49 PM
One album where JP really shines in my opinion, which I don't think has been mentioned on this thread yet, is An  Evening With JP and JR. Some fantastic stuff on there and he's stretching a lot more than in an average DT show.

Fantastic album. I still spin it from time to time. My buddies and I used to joke that "In the Moment" was JP making his case for being the greatest guitarist on the planet.

His lead playing and tone on Truth is my favorite of his career. I really wish he'd bring that lead tone back and use some of those jazzier licks.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Peter Mc on June 04, 2018, 03:40:42 PM
I think the Steve Morse influence comes more from a technique perspective over a musical/melodic application. John always talks about how useful to him were the alternate picking exercises he learned on a SM clinic while he was on Berklee. JP developed his own sound, but the technique approach he got form Steve remains present. Still, I always thought his solo during the baroque-esque part on Illumination Theory sounded inspired by Steve Morse, for example.

Other big influences he always mentions are Alex Lifeson (this one is pretty obvious), James Hetfield/Metallica for the tight rhythm guitar playing and sound, and Al Di Meola (that bass and guitar part in the middle of Raise the Knife always reminded me of Di Meola's playing).

On my personal guitarists ranking, Petrucci  is #1. He has all the chops and speed to be an overkill shredder like Yngwie, but he ALWAYS plays with the right amount of emotion/feel and melodic sense, instead of just playing a thousand notes for the sake of it. Others I really like are Guthrie Govan and Kiko Loureiro. Bumblefoot is very very very good too.

Good post. I agree with pretty much all that.

Personally, I think Alex Lifeson and James Hetfield are his most obvious influences. He spends the majority of the music playing rhythm parts and Alex's chord voicings and James' power chord work shine through as big influences on JP.

When it comes to leads, JP is an interesting case. I think that's where guys like Steve Morse have influenced him, but he's pretty unique in that he meshed together the technicality of a guy like Morse, shredders like EVH or Hammett, etc... and melodic players like Gilmore. The primary thing that has always attracted me to JP's work is the balance of technical, shred, melody, feel, etc... I feel like he grabbed parts of a bunch of styles and put them together in a way I've never heard any other player. 

He did a video lesson series with Guitar World recently, where he breaks down how he develops parts and talks specifically about the influences on his playing. It's a good watch even for non-guitar players -

Episode 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJx9Kft4NuQ

Episode 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5lRLQPMZ3M

Episode 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF0O4qBfXuY

Episode 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m3OHVPa1kk

Episode 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pUnrsHGgqE

Episode 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGnEy9COP88

If memory serves, particularly in Episodes 3 and 4 (and maybe 2) he goes into some pretty interesting detail as to how he heard bands or guitar players doing certain things and combined those things together to create "his" sound.

Oh and yea, I'd say JP is my favorite guitar player ever. I don't know enough of Gary Moore's stuff to make the connection, I'll have to check out more of his work.

I saw one of those I think where he was talking about riffs and power chords. He indicated that he had taken stuff from Rush and Queensryche and meshed it together to get his sound. He then went on to play around and played some really cool riffs which is sometimes where I think his playing is lacking in DT as there are not lots of really memorable riffs. This is perhaps by design as there is a lot of very technical playing and unusual time signatures but would love to hear some more of those huge Queensryche style riffs he was playing in the video.

Overall he is definitely one of my favourite guitar players, as others have said, he can pretty much do it all. He can do epic melodic Gilmouresque solos, full on technical shredding solos and everything in between. He has definitely borrowed from Satriani, Vai, Steve Morse, Lifeson and Gilmour to name a few. Not sure he is enough of a pioneer to have his name mentioned in those circles though or he’s crossed over into the public consciousness to create something memorable enough to be mentioned with the likes of Clapton, Page, Van Halen, Knopfler etc.

Like I said then, one of my favourites along with Richie Sambora, Mark Knopfler, Satch and Gilmour but maybe not, objectively speaking, one of the greats.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 05, 2018, 07:22:53 AM
I saw one of those I think where he was talking about riffs and power chords. He indicated that he had taken stuff from Rush and Queensryche and meshed it together to get his sound. He then went on to play around and played some really cool riffs which is sometimes where I think his playing is lacking in DT as there are not lots of really memorable riffs. This is perhaps by design as there is a lot of very technical playing and unusual time signatures but would love to hear some more of those huge Queensryche style riffs he was playing in the video.

I'd respectfully disagree, I think JP has written some very memorable riffs throughout DT's career - especially considering that a lot of DT's stuff is odd time signatures or complex arrangements.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Kattelox on June 05, 2018, 10:38:09 AM
I think JP's riffs haven't been that great, generally speaking, for over a decade. The Count of Tuscany was the last super awesome riff I can think of (I love that fast gallop, odd meter stuff in the first part of that song). Then maybe a couple songs on Systematic Chaos, but very little if anything afterwards has a sick riff that I can immediately recall. The Looking Glass is cool, but almost everything else on DT12 is snooze-worthy.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 05, 2018, 10:49:55 AM
I think JP's riffs haven't been that great, generally speaking, for over a decade. The Count of Tuscany was the last super awesome riff I can think of (I love that fast gallop, odd meter stuff in the first part of that song). Then maybe a couple songs on Systematic Chaos, but very little if anything afterwards has a sick riff that I can immediately recall. The Looking Glass is cool, but almost everything else on DT12 is snooze-worthy.

If we are looking at the last 10 years in particular that would be from BC&SL on, right? Off the top of my head some stand out riffs would include - ANTR (main riff), TCoT (riff you mentioned), OTBoA (main riff), BITS (main riff), BAI (tons of good riffs throughout, especially the fast stuff in the second verse), TLG (riff you mentioned), BTV (main riff), Ravenskill, MoB, etc...

Are we just talking heavy riffs? Cause TA has tons of awesome clean or acoustic riffs - A Life Left Behind, Heavens Coves, etc...
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Kattelox on June 05, 2018, 10:52:53 AM
I think ALLB is the only riff I think is really good (in the sense that it's instantly memorable and fun) from TA, honestly. Everything else serves the songs but doesn't really hit me as a 'sweet riff' like say Under A Glass Moon's, or Solitary Shell etc. Good call with A Nightmare To Remember - it's all right, doesn't blow me away, but it's better than others.

I was thinking mainly heavy riffs, though. DT12 is full of just boring power chords it seems; Enemy Inside has some nice riffage but it's kind of a bland style of riffing to my ears - TLG is much more interesting.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 05, 2018, 11:02:36 AM
I think ALLB is the only riff I think is really good (in the sense that it's instantly memorable and fun) from TA, honestly. Everything else serves the songs but doesn't really hit me as a 'sweet riff' like say Under A Glass Moon's, or Solitary Shell etc. Good call with A Nightmare To Remember - it's all right, doesn't blow me away, but it's better than others.

I was thinking mainly heavy riffs, though. DT12 is full of just boring power chords it seems; Enemy Inside has some nice riffage but it's kind of a bland style of riffing to my ears - TLG is much more interesting.
Yea, DT12 is hit or miss in the riff department, he did a lot of chordal stuff on that record - Behind the Veil main riff is pretty killer though.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: gzarruk on June 05, 2018, 11:38:43 AM
I think ALLB is the only riff I think is really good (in the sense that it's instantly memorable and fun) from TA, honestly. Everything else serves the songs but doesn't really hit me as a 'sweet riff' like say Under A Glass Moon's, or Solitary Shell etc. Good call with A Nightmare To Remember - it's all right, doesn't blow me away, but it's better than others.

I was thinking mainly heavy riffs, though. DT12 is full of just boring power chords it seems; Enemy Inside has some nice riffage but it's kind of a bland style of riffing to my ears - TLG is much more interesting.
Yea, DT12 is hit or miss in the riff department, he did a lot of chordal stuff on that record - Behind the Veil main riff is pretty killer though.

There's great riffs on Illumination Theory, though.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on June 05, 2018, 08:37:12 PM
Our New World is a pretty bad ass riff, especially since that song is a rare occasion of DT writing what is basically a riff rock song.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Peter Mc on June 06, 2018, 02:43:08 AM
Agreed, not saying he hasn’t written any good riffs just that I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily his biggest strength and, again, this may just be due to DT’s style of music, they don’t generally do songs like a Back In Black or The Trooper etc.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Ninjabait on June 06, 2018, 07:33:17 AM
I think ALLB is the only riff I think is really good (in the sense that it's instantly memorable and fun) from TA, honestly. Everything else serves the songs but doesn't really hit me as a 'sweet riff' like say Under A Glass Moon's, or Solitary Shell etc. Good call with A Nightmare To Remember - it's all right, doesn't blow me away, but it's better than others.

I was thinking mainly heavy riffs, though. DT12 is full of just boring power chords it seems; Enemy Inside has some nice riffage but it's kind of a bland style of riffing to my ears - TLG is much more interesting.
Yea, DT12 is hit or miss in the riff department, he did a lot of chordal stuff on that record - Behind the Veil main riff is pretty killer though.

There's great riffs on Illumination Theory, though.

The re-entrance on IT is one of the coolest riffs ever written period. That whole section with the piano arpeggio riff is killer too.

DT's no Gojira, sure, but imo they have some great riffs from time to time. Panic Attack, Sacrificed Sons, OtBoA, BMUBMD, About to Crash (Reprise), Strange Deja Vu, and TDEN have some really great ones.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 06, 2018, 07:56:07 AM
I think the other thing to keep in mind, a lot of bands will get a cool riff and base the whole song around it, that kinda makes the riff more memorable for a lot of people because of the repetition. Think about a song like Sad But True by Metallica - crushing riff and they sit on it for the majority of the song. DT doesn't do that. JP has written so many great riffs that pop up once in a complex DT song and last for 30 seconds of a ten + minute song and is surrounded by 20 other parts or sections.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: AngelBack on June 06, 2018, 08:05:40 AM
I think the other thing to keep in mind, a lot of bands will get a cool riff and base the whole song around it, that kinda makes the riff more memorable for a lot of people because of the repetition. Think about a song like Sad But True by Metallica - crushing riff and they sit on it for the majority of the song. DT doesn't do that. JP has written so many great riffs that pop up once in a complex DT song and last for 30 seconds of a ten + minute song and is surrounded by 20 other parts or sections.

Great point.  JP could crank out AC/DC songs all day but that is not what he is about.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: bosk1 on June 06, 2018, 08:22:08 AM
The re-entrance on IT is one of the coolest riffs ever written period. That whole section with the piano arpeggio riff is killer too.

Totally, on both.  As to the bolded, that is easily my favorite moment on the entire album and one of my all-time favorite DT moments ever.

I think the other thing to keep in mind, a lot of bands will get a cool riff and base the whole song around it, that kinda makes the riff more memorable for a lot of people because of the repetition. Think about a song like Sad But True by Metallica - crushing riff and they sit on it for the majority of the song. DT doesn't do that. JP has written so many great riffs that pop up once in a complex DT song and last for 30 seconds of a ten + minute song and is surrounded by 20 other parts or sections.

Agreed.  That killer riff is Ravenskill is a prime example.  It completely changes the mood of the song and is one of my favorite JP riffs of all time.  BUT IT'S JUST SO SHORT!  I sent JP a long email rant about it once.  He laughed and said something along the lines of, "Maybe I'll have to revisit that one then on The Astonishing 2."  :lol
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: gzarruk on June 06, 2018, 09:05:48 AM
I think the other thing to keep in mind, a lot of bands will get a cool riff and base the whole song around it, that kinda makes the riff more memorable for a lot of people because of the repetition. Think about a song like Sad But True by Metallica - crushing riff and they sit on it for the majority of the song. DT doesn't do that. JP has written so many great riffs that pop up once in a complex DT song and last for 30 seconds of a ten + minute song and is surrounded by 20 other parts or sections.

This. Is much easier to come up with one cool riff and that’s it, you got a song. With DT you get much more complex song structures and lots of riff/idea changes.

Btw, something I miss from JP’s playing is his classic acoustic guitar solos, like in LTL before the big F# part, the very cool solo on Solitary Shell or the one on LTE’s Another Dimension. They’re so good, I wish he did more of that.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 06, 2018, 09:07:07 AM
Agreed.  That killer riff is Ravenskill is a prime example.  It completely changes the mood of the song and is one of my favorite JP riffs of all time.  BUT IT'S JUST SO SHORT!  I sent JP a long email rant about it once.  He laughed and said something along the lines of, "Maybe I'll have to revisit that one then on The Astonishing 2."  :lol

Hah! That's definitely a perfect example. Killer riff  :metal
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: pcs90 on June 06, 2018, 04:16:10 PM
I also seem to remember Jordan saying sometimes he is the one who comes up with riffs, not JP. I have no idea how common that is or who is responsible for each one, but that may be something to keep in mind too...
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: gzarruk on June 06, 2018, 08:43:02 PM
I also seem to remember Jordan saying sometimes he is the one who comes up with riffs, not JP. I have no idea how common that is or who is responsible for each one, but that may be something to keep in mind too...

Yes, Jordan said that, specifically talking about TA, sometimes it isn’t as obvious as “heavy riffs came from JP” and “softer piano parts came from Jordan”.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 07, 2018, 07:12:13 AM
I also seem to remember Jordan saying sometimes he is the one who comes up with riffs, not JP. I have no idea how common that is or who is responsible for each one, but that may be something to keep in mind too...

Yes, Jordan said that, specifically talking about TA, sometimes it isn’t as obvious as “heavy riffs came from JP” and “softer piano parts came from Jordan”.

Right, I remember him saying that. I believe that in context, he was discussing the fact that he brings heavy stuff to the table a lot and JP sometimes brings mellow stuff to the table. I think, over the last couple records in particular, sections and riffs are probably a good mix of JP or JR or both.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Lax on June 07, 2018, 09:26:37 AM
There is that riff aspect in the twelve steps suite, as a DT fan, when the glass prison riffs is in the last part, or when the root of all evil repeats in the following song :)
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on June 07, 2018, 12:54:22 PM
I remember being a huge Metallica fan back in the day. Then I heard Dream Theater. The difference in guitar-playing quality was so apparent, and I'm not even talking about solos specifically. For some reason, I immediately noticed how a lot of Metallica choruses are basically just a few basic power chords that ring out while Hetfield sings, whereas Dream Theater choruses have a lot more going on. I'm not a musician by trade, so I'm probably botching the explanation, but I think the moral of the story is: Petrucci is not just a great shredder, but a great rhythm player as well.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: ReaperKK on June 07, 2018, 06:43:32 PM
I will say this about JP, I think he is a great riff writer and a great soloist but I don't think he can write good solo material. I know there is only one JP solo album out but it wasn't what I was expecting. I feel he writes better when he is writing for a band.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 08, 2018, 06:52:33 AM
I will say this about JP, I think he is a great riff writer and a great soloist but I don't think he can write good solo material. I know there is only one JP solo album out but it wasn't what I was expecting. I feel he writes better when he is writing for a band.

While I agree with your overall point (JP writes better in a band context), I'd have to respectful disagree about his solo record. I find myself going back to SA a lot, and it's become one of my favorite instrumental records over the years, easily. There's some killer stuff on there.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: bosk1 on June 08, 2018, 08:13:03 AM
Same here.  But I am also very late to the party with that album.  I only just got it during this last G3 tour, so I hadn't gotten into it early.  But lots to like, even though I am generally not an instrumental music guy.  I just wish he would record Wrath of the Amazons.  :metal

Aside from Mikey's comment, I was going to come and post in the thread this morning anyway.  I was thinking about this discussion as I was driving in and listening to The Astonishing pretty loudly in my car.  The solo in A Better Life really hit me.  I've always really liked the shreddy, noodly stuff in the first half of that solo.  It is just so clean and awesome.  But what really hit me was the more soaring second half.  It's really cool how JP can go from shred to capturing that emotional, soaring vibe of a Gilmore or Schon in a heartbeat, sometimes juxtaposing the two in interesting ways.  This solo does that really well.  And it also nicely sets the table for the awesome Evangeline bridge that follows.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 08, 2018, 08:17:03 AM
Same here.  But I am also very late to the party with that album.  I only just got it during this last G3 tour, so I hadn't gotten into it early.  But lots to like, even though I am generally not an instrumental music guy.  I just wish he would record Wrath of the Amazons.  :metal

Aside from Mikey's comment, I was going to come and post in the thread this morning anyway.  I was thinking about this discussion as I was driving in and listening to The Astonishing pretty loudly in my car.  The solo in A Better Life really hit me.  I've always really liked the shreddy, noodly stuff in the first half of that solo.  It is just so clean and awesome.  But what really hit me was the more soaring second half.  It's really cool how JP can go from shred to capturing that emotional, soaring vibe of a Gilmore or Schon in a heartbeat, sometimes juxtaposing the two in interesting ways.  This solo does that really well.  And it also nicely sets the table for the awesome Evangeline bridge that follows.

Yeah, that solo does a great job of blending the shred and the melody. Speaking of solos that show his diversity as a player and speaking of his solo record - I was just listening to his solo in Jaws of Life and it's literally a journey. He touches on shred, bluesy stuff, melodic stuff, different modes, etc... Killer showcase for him as a player.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: pcs90 on June 08, 2018, 01:36:42 PM
The A Better Life solo is one of my favorite JP solos honestly. It's short, but so well done. It still blows my mind when people say TA has no memorable Petrucci solos.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: bosk1 on June 08, 2018, 01:38:10 PM
The solo in When Your Time Has Come is pretty spectacular as well.  I know people tend to zero in on the ending solo in A New Beginning, but TA actually has quite a few really solid, memorable solos.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on June 08, 2018, 01:40:38 PM
Yes, good call on WYTHC.

There is so much Dream Theater goodness throughout TA.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Kattelox on June 08, 2018, 02:27:20 PM
My favorite Astonishing moments are the ones with just piano and James. Like The Answer. Throw a little gentle guitar in there too and I melt. Between original album releases I would kill to hear an acoustic/unplugged Dream Theater album.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: pcs90 on June 08, 2018, 02:39:37 PM
My favorite Astonishing moments are the ones with just piano and James. Like The Answer. Throw a little gentle guitar in there too and I melt. Between original album releases I would kill to hear an acoustic/unplugged Dream Theater album.
Not exactly the same, but I assume you've heard Jordan's solo piano album where he covers DT songs?
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Kattelox on June 08, 2018, 02:48:49 PM
My favorite Astonishing moments are the ones with just piano and James. Like The Answer. Throw a little gentle guitar in there too and I melt. Between original album releases I would kill to hear an acoustic/unplugged Dream Theater album.
Not exactly the same, but I assume you've heard Jordan's solo piano album where he covers DT songs?

Yeah, I've heard it. I really need to buy a copy one of these days. I really enjoy it, although there are many moments where there's too much Jordan-ing around, too much flashiness, too... um... too many notes.  :lol
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on June 08, 2018, 02:51:49 PM
My favorite Astonishing moments are the ones with just piano and James. 

This, to me, was the one thing truly missing from DT's catalog. I have always said, I hope they have piano and more James. The Astonishing gave me that in spades.

And with this being a JP thread, he plays so many different styles on this one album. I mean, the entire band is showing off very discreetly.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: pcs90 on June 08, 2018, 02:54:39 PM
My favorite Astonishing moments are the ones with just piano and James. Like The Answer. Throw a little gentle guitar in there too and I melt. Between original album releases I would kill to hear an acoustic/unplugged Dream Theater album.
Not exactly the same, but I assume you've heard Jordan's solo piano album where he covers DT songs?

Yeah, I've heard it. I really need to buy a copy one of these days. I really enjoy it, although there are many moments where there's too much Jordan-ing around, too much flashiness, too... um... too many notes.  :lol

Yeah, a few tracks are just too over the top. There's another video of him playing TSCO with someone else on strings behind him that is fantastic though. Probably one of those Korg or Sweetwater presentation videos...
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: wolfking on June 08, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Apologies if there's another thread somewhere...

But I wanted to talk about John Petrucci, and where most people rank him all time and such...

I mean I expect most of us here rank him right near the top, but where would you put him among what are considered the classic greats. Certainly Dream Theater's discography stacks up against anyone's.



What got me thinking was the Thin Lizzy thread in GMD. Which always leads me to a Gary Moore binge. Now I've been a Dream Theater fan for a looooong time, and I have never heard JP cite Gary Moore as an influence. Yet he is the one guitarist that I constantly hear in JP's playing. I mean the chops and the speed, the emotion, and the technical ability. I consider Gary Moore the greatest guitarist I've ever heard, but frankly, I put John Petrucci right up there.

JP plays some Rush like passages for sure, but I'm not sure what other influences really come out in JP's playing. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? He cites Steve Morse as an influence, but personally, I don't know enough of Morse's work to hear it in JP. To the better educated, is Morse present in JP's playing?

If you had to describe JP's style to a friend, how would you do it?
Can anyone else vouch for the Gary Moore influence?

For myself, I rank JP in the top 10.  I don't know if he could go top 5, but he'd be pretty close.  I can hear subtle hints of what you are talking about in relation to Gary Moore Tim, and I don't actually know how much of a fan JP is of GM.  JP gets criticised sometimes of being too technical and a bit mechanical and I can see that sometimes in his shred.  The only thing about JP sometimes is that in his improv, some of his faster shred seems a little awkward and out of place, or a bit clunky.

That's only a minor gripe but when JP comes to mastering a solo, he's one of the best and can create some of the most emotionally intense and meaningful solos I've ever heard.  This puts him in a category above most.  I do hear a lot more Gilmour in his style than Moore honestly.  Solos like TSCO, ACOS, GK, BAI is where it's at for JP.  Those type of solos he easily one of the best, and he makes you cry with him with those solos.  On the other hand, UAGM, Lie, BTV, Home etc. he can make a memorable creative, kick ass shred fest sound like everything is meant to be there.  A lot of his solos are like mini songs within a song.  They aren't just solos, they are pieces within pieces.

It's not only his solos but a lot of his melodies too, like Overture 1928 is one of my fav JP moments, due to the two really melodic guitar lead lines in there, they are perfect.

Thinking about Gary Moore though, I do hear that in some of his faster picking stuff.  Like there's a tremelo picked section that's fast as hell that I'm thinking of in ITNOG that really actually reminds me of Moore's thing he does where he picks as fast as he can down a semitone interval apart working down a chromatic scale.  I can see a link there actually.  So I guess thinking about both, I can actually hear more influence in the faster playing over the emotional Loner, SGTB type songs.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Stewie on June 08, 2018, 04:54:25 PM
I’m really not sure where you guys are hearing the Gary Moore influence...as far as alternate picking is concerned, Steve Morse and Al Di Meola are his top two influences. He’s also mentioned Yngwie a few times, but I don’t ever recall hearing (or reading) him mention Gary Moore as an influence. I mean, sure, Gary Moore did some fast picking here and there, but there are so many other players that would come to mind first as influences for him. The main blues guitarist he mentioned to me as being a big influence on him was Stevie Ray Vaughan, and I can totally hear it. Stylistically, I don’t really hear any similarities. Technique wise, again...there’s about five or six other players that would come to mind first.

Having said all that, Gary Moore is awesome, and I love his playing/music. I just don’t really hear it in JP’s playing. Also, it’s worth mentioning that Di Meola didn’t just influence him as far as alternate picking... the guitar/keyboard unison lines that DT is known for... we have Di Meola to thank for that, as well as Yes, of course.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on June 08, 2018, 05:45:10 PM
 Hey Stew, thanks for your post. Truth be told, I'm a huge Gary Moore fan. Couldn't tell you the first thing about Morse or DiMeola.
I have never listened to JP and thought of Yngwie.

That said, there are plenty of times when I'm listening to Dream Theater when I stop and think, Oh man, that totally reminds me of Gary Moore. Like when JP holds those long deep single notes which emit so much feeling. Total Moore. As Kade mentioned ITNOG. Thinking The Razor's Edge section of 8V.

I don't know anything about alternate picking or technique or anything like that. But my ears always make the connection. To me, Gary Moore is the best I've ever heard, and I consider JP the Gary Moore of his generation. Like Moore, he is able to translate his virtuosity into musicality.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Stewie on June 09, 2018, 11:57:20 AM
Maybe you should listen to some Steve Morse and Al Di Meola then! The influence is undeniably strong. Every time John gets asked about his influences, those two guys always get mentioned. To my knowledge, he hasn’t ever mentioned Gary Moore as an influence. If Gary Moore is your favorite, then it makes sense for you to want to make that connection, for sure. I’m just saying, as far as what John himself has said over the years, Gary Moore has never been mentioned. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean he doesn’t like his playing, or hasn’t been influenced by him. I’m sure he’s at least aware of him. All I’m saying is from a technique standpoint, as well as stylistically, they have very little in common. Totally different types of guitar player.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Podaar on June 10, 2018, 06:32:54 AM
Stewie,

That's just TAC. I recommend nodding, smiling and patting him on the head...unless he's napping. He startles easily.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on June 10, 2018, 07:07:10 AM
Stewie,

That's just TAC. I recommend nodding, smiling and patting him on the head...unless he's napping. He startles easily.

 :lol



Maybe you should listen to some Steve Morse and Al Di Meola then! The influence is undeniably strong. Every time John gets asked about his influences, those two guys always get mentioned. To my knowledge, he hasn’t ever mentioned Gary Moore as an influence. If Gary Moore is your favorite, then it makes sense for you to want to make that connection, for sure. I’m just saying, as far as what John himself has said over the years, Gary Moore has never been mentioned. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean he doesn’t like his playing, or hasn’t been influenced by him. I’m sure he’s at least aware of him. All I’m saying is from a technique standpoint, as well as stylistically, they have very little in common. Totally different types of guitar player.

Not sure when I'll ever come across Morse or DiMeola, tbh.

I'm not saying that I even want to make the connection. I just do, because they each effect me similarly.



And I didn't make this thread to pimp Gary Moore  ;D , but I was thinking of JP in terms of where he is in the pantheon of guitarists. Surely in his generation, he stands out.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Addy on June 11, 2018, 05:15:44 AM
I love JP, his style and sound. Great inspiration that started years ago with "Rock Discipline". I have 3 JP EBMM guitars, recreated his sound and tricks in the Axe-Fx... damn, I even use his picks.

That being said I wanna share a controversial opinion. I think he lost a bit of his technical skills recently. Listening to footage from recent G3 tour back to back with e.g. G3 2001, it's not as tight and effortless. I guess 6DOIT/ToT era was his peak.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Peter Mc on June 11, 2018, 06:55:51 AM
Stewie,

That's just TAC. I recommend nodding, smiling and patting him on the head...unless he's napping. He startles easily.

 :lol



Maybe you should listen to some Steve Morse and Al Di Meola then! The influence is undeniably strong. Every time John gets asked about his influences, those two guys always get mentioned. To my knowledge, he hasn’t ever mentioned Gary Moore as an influence. If Gary Moore is your favorite, then it makes sense for you to want to make that connection, for sure. I’m just saying, as far as what John himself has said over the years, Gary Moore has never been mentioned. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean he doesn’t like his playing, or hasn’t been influenced by him. I’m sure he’s at least aware of him. All I’m saying is from a technique standpoint, as well as stylistically, they have very little in common. Totally different types of guitar player.

Not sure when I'll ever come across Morse or DiMeola, tbh.

I'm not saying that I even want to make the connection. I just do, because they each effect me similarly.



And I didn't make this thread to pimp Gary Moore  ;D , but I was thinking of JP in terms of where he is in the pantheon of guitarists. Surely in his generation, he stands out.

Check out 'Sometimes I Feel Like Screaming' from Deep Purple for a great Steve Morse track in terms of his more melodic playing.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 11, 2018, 09:06:43 AM
That being said I wanna share a controversial opinion. I think he lost a bit of his technical skills recently. Listening to footage from recent G3 tour back to back with e.g. G3 2001, it's not as tight and effortless. I guess 6DOIT/ToT era was his peak.

I don't know if that will be super controversial around here - I think with age he is a little less "fluid" of a player. I'd agree that his peak was probably that SDOIT through ToT era - the touring they did to support those records has given us some great sets and some great JP moments.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: ReaperKK on June 11, 2018, 07:04:28 PM
That being said I wanna share a controversial opinion. I think he lost a bit of his technical skills recently. Listening to footage from recent G3 tour back to back with e.g. G3 2001, it's not as tight and effortless. I guess 6DOIT/ToT era was his peak.

I don't know if that will be super controversial around here - I think with age he is a little less "fluid" of a player. I'd agree that his peak was probably that SDOIT through ToT era - the touring they did to support those records has given us some great sets and some great JP moments.

I agree with this. It might not be age, who knows maybe he practices differently, or less. It could also be his tone, it's changed a lot since ToT
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on June 11, 2018, 07:26:16 PM


Check out 'Sometimes I Feel Like Screaming' from Deep Purple for a great Steve Morse track in terms of his more melodic playing.

Just did, a live version. A very nice solo.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Peter Mc on June 12, 2018, 06:54:54 AM
Cool, glad you enjoyed it, not sure which live version you heard but studio version is awesome on it's own.  Not a fan of a lot of his stuff with Deep Purple as a lot of his solos are a bit less tuneful and more technical and jagged at times, he has a very distinctive style.  Just wanted to give you some idea of what he sounded like in more Petrucci mode.  Always felt he was a significant influence and I think JP has cited him as his favourite player in the past although I may be wrong in that.

Gary Moore was an awesome player as well although I was more of a fan of his hard rock/metal era than when he reinvented himself as a blues guitarist.  Not heard enough of either era to properly judge though.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 12, 2018, 07:24:24 AM
That being said I wanna share a controversial opinion. I think he lost a bit of his technical skills recently. Listening to footage from recent G3 tour back to back with e.g. G3 2001, it's not as tight and effortless. I guess 6DOIT/ToT era was his peak.

I don't know if that will be super controversial around here - I think with age he is a little less "fluid" of a player. I'd agree that his peak was probably that SDOIT through ToT era - the touring they did to support those records has given us some great sets and some great JP moments.

I agree with this. It might not be age, who knows maybe he practices differently, or less. It could also be his tone, it's changed a lot since ToT

It might be partially a tone thing, he has changed his tone a good bit over the years.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: bosk1 on June 12, 2018, 08:36:37 AM
That being said I wanna share a controversial opinion. I think he lost a bit of his technical skills recently. Listening to footage from recent G3 tour back to back with e.g. G3 2001, it's not as tight and effortless. I guess 6DOIT/ToT era was his peak.

I don't know if that will be super controversial around here - I think with age he is a little less "fluid" of a player. I'd agree that his peak was probably that SDOIT through ToT era - the touring they did to support those records has given us some great sets and some great JP moments.

I agree with this. It might not be age, who knows maybe he practices differently, or less. It could also be his tone, it's changed a lot since ToT

Really?  I think he is much more fluid now.  I was listening to the Old Bridge bootleg recently, and his playing nowadays is MUCH more smooth than back then.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Addy on June 12, 2018, 10:58:54 AM
That being said I wanna share a controversial opinion. I think he lost a bit of his technical skills recently. Listening to footage from recent G3 tour back to back with e.g. G3 2001, it's not as tight and effortless. I guess 6DOIT/ToT era was his peak.

I don't know if that will be super controversial around here - I think with age he is a little less "fluid" of a player. I'd agree that his peak was probably that SDOIT through ToT era - the touring they did to support those records has given us some great sets and some great JP moments.

I agree with this. It might not be age, who knows maybe he practices differently, or less. It could also be his tone, it's changed a lot since ToT

Really?  I think he is much more fluid now.  I was listening to the Old Bridge bootleg recently, and his playing nowadays is MUCH more smooth than back then.


Well, there are lots of proshot festival vids from recent years where he's sometimes off e.g. The Enemy Inside from Sonisphere 2014. And here are the clips grom G3 - 2018 vs 2001. You be the judge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-r4bN85eYE
https://youtu.be/bNXEXb-Dn0c?t=488

Don't get me wrong. I love his playing and I know I'd have to share a dozen of such examples to prove my point, but it's just my observation.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Drinktheater on June 13, 2018, 01:00:44 PM
He is top 3 for me back when I cared for ranking my favorite guitarist.

1.Satriani
2.Vai
3.Petrucci

Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: gzarruk on June 13, 2018, 01:30:39 PM
He is top 3 for me back when I cared for ranking my favorite guitarist.

1.Satriani
2.Vai
3.Petrucci

You must love G3 Live in Tokyo then :biggrin:
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: PetFish on June 13, 2018, 01:55:16 PM
What is JP's guitar legacy going to be?

Speed?  Accuracy?  Versatility?

I'd have to say it's the constant pickup switching between bridge/neck.  Most players will use one pickup for an entire song and then JP comes along and opens up this door and now everyone seems to be doing it.  Well, at least the up-and-coming prog metal players seem to be.  I could even add the piezo integration as well but the pickup switching goes back 15 years farther.

Just like EVH's legacy is tapping and Vai's legacy would be guitar/human sexual relations (you know he's done it), I think JP will be forever remembered for this particular technique.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: bosk1 on June 13, 2018, 02:43:50 PM
I've seen tons of guitarists doing that since the early '80s at least.  It is nothing that JP invented.

Personally, I've never seen a guy tweak his pickup switch and volume knobs as much during a song as this guy:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFiYislNeRw
He isn't on the toggle switch as much in that video, but is on the volume knobs constantly (it is very subtle and you are likely to miss a lot of it if you don't watch closely), including some really nice volume swells at about the 4:15-4:30 mark (that is all volume knobs, not a pedal).
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 14, 2018, 06:57:36 AM
Yeah, I think loads of guitarists switch between the neck and bridge to get different sounds mid-song. To me, JP perfected that craft, especially during solos. He definitely influenced my playing in that particular way. That said, I think that's a detail to his playing that not a lot of people will remember simply because not a lot of people will notice it and understand it.

I'd say his legacy will be strongly linked to his role as the guitar player from DT. I think people will remember him in that context. In terms of his playing - his versatility will be the thing I think I'll remember most years down the line.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: PetFish on June 14, 2018, 02:26:10 PM
EVH wasn't the first to tap but he made it his own and is generally recognized as the one who 'invented' it and that's his legacy.

Same for JP, sure others switch pickups, but not very many people can name who did it first or whatever.  I'm an axeman myself and can name a zillion guitarists but ask me to name another player that does it like JP and I can't which is why I think it's going to be his legacy... that and muscles.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: bosk1 on June 14, 2018, 02:33:44 PM
Same for JP, sure others switch pickups, but not very many people can name who did it first or whatever. 

Well, sure people couldn't name who did it first.  But that's because it is such a common and inconsequential thing that pretty much EVERYBODY has been doing it since pickup switches were commonplace.  It's like asking who was "first" to plug in their electric guitar. 

I highly doubt that many people really notice that he switches pickups fairly frequently.  And those who do are probably mostly guitar players, and as such, would have also likely noticed that tons of guitar players have been doing it with as much or more frequency than JP for decades.  It's just not really a "signature move" kind of thing.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: PetFish on June 14, 2018, 10:42:52 PM
Fine, you win, gg.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on June 15, 2018, 09:41:56 AM
Same for JP, sure others switch pickups, but not very many people can name who did it first or whatever.

I can't suggest who did it first, but I can think of a lot of guys who did it regularly long before JP:  Steve Howe, Alex Lifeson, EVH, Randy Rhoads....


But that's because it is such a common and inconsequential thing that pretty much EVERYBODY has been doing it since pickup switches were commonplace.  It's like asking who was "first" to plug in their electric guitar. 

I highly doubt that many people really notice that he switches pickups fairly frequently.  And those who do are probably mostly guitar players, and as such, would have also likely noticed that tons of guitar players have been doing it with as much or more frequency than JP for decades.  It's just not really a "signature move" kind of thing.

I'd never really noticed it in relation to JP and agree about pretty much everybody doing it.


If you want to come up with a "legacy" for JP as a guitarist, I would say its the precision of playing and the fastidious attention to tone (although lots of other guitarists do both, these are things about JP, as a guitarist, that stand out to me, a bass player).
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on June 16, 2018, 12:04:31 AM
He's definitely my favorite guitar player. He's got just about everything you could want in a guitar player - song writing, blazing solos, gorgeous melodies, soulful playing, emotion, kick ass riffs, beautiful acoustic playing. He's got it all.

Some of my other favorites/most influential to my playing and attitude are:

Mark Tremonti
Buckethead
Jason Becker
Jake E. Lee
Andy McKee
Eddie Van Halen
Steve Vai
Dimebag Darrell
Mark Holcomb
Daron Malakian
Tosin Abasi
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Indiscipline on June 20, 2018, 06:22:57 AM
I think the main pick-up switch offender could be Jeff Beck.

I also like to think John Petrucci's most important legacy as guitar player and guitar musician is his religious and scientific dedication in exploring and fulfilling the potential of the instrument, changing the game yet respectfully never shifting the focus from the sacrality of song and music to himself. Striving for the most complete palette never forgetting the painting.

Among the contemporary shredders, he has the monk-like mindset of a XVIII century virtuoso. 

For what is worth, he's up there in my pantheon with Jeff Beck, Rory Gallagher, John McLaughlin, Vernon Reid, Robert Fripp, Jan Akkerman, Mark Knopfler, Brian Setzer, Ritchie Blackmore, Steve Lukather and Gary Moore.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on June 20, 2018, 10:24:13 AM
Brian Setzer? Gee I was just thinking how much Mike Mangini reminded me of Slim Jim Phantom.  ;D
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: FracturedMirror on June 24, 2018, 10:25:24 AM
Personally, this is my "holy trinity" of guitar:

Stevie Ray Vaughan
Buckethead
John Petrucci
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on June 24, 2018, 11:54:39 PM
I think guitarists who constantly switch between the pickups during songs are just guitar players who know exactly how they need the guitar to react to the notes being played. I'd say just about every "real" guitar player does this, and what I mean by that is, every guitar player who is trying to speak through the instrument. There are so many "guitar players" who are just that - guitar players. All they do is play the guitar for their band or whatever because they just wanted to be a guitar player in a band. But guys like JP, Steve Vai, and Jeff Beck have something to say, and they're using the guitar to do that.

On that note, I will mention something that JP does with the pickup switch that I picked up, that I don't really hear anyone else doing - he'll have the switch set to the neck* pickup during a solo, and then bend up on a high note, and almost simultaneously he'll flick the switch and sweep the signal from the more fat sounding neck to the thin sounding bridge which creates this very vocal, very expressive sound on the note. Almost like a wah pedal or a talk box sort of effect. It's something that I absolutely love and something that I've incorporated into my own playing. Now, it's just a natural thing for me to do, which is really cool. It seems like such an obvious way to be expressive now.

*edited to fix my mistake
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: rumborak on June 25, 2018, 09:34:20 AM
The switch between neck and bridge pickup is usually simple a choice between rhythm and solo section. At least for me :lol
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: kingshmegland on June 25, 2018, 09:51:45 AM
The switch between neck and bridge pickup is usually simple a choice between rhythm and solo section. At least for me :lol

Warmer or cutting through sounds.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Indiscipline on June 25, 2018, 10:00:55 AM
On that note, I will mention something that JP does with the pickup switch that I picked up, that I don't really hear anyone else doing - he'll have the switch set to the bridge pickup during a solo, and then bend up on a high note, and almost simultaneously he'll flick the switch and sweep the signal from the more fat sounding neck to the thin sounding bridge which creates this very vocal, very expressive sound on the note. Almost like a wah pedal or a talk box sort of effect. It's something that I absolutely love and something that I've incorporated into my own playing. Now, it's just a natural thing for me to do, which is really cool. It seems like such an obvious way to be expressive now.

I've seen Steve Morse doing that trick. I suppose that's the rationale behind his guitar having the switch settings featuring the neck and bridge positions unusually adjacent.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Volante99 on June 30, 2018, 09:25:09 PM
Petrucci's "legacy" is the influence he's had on the current generation of metal guitarists from Avenged Sevenfold to Animals as Leaders, etc.

He's also one of the few virtuoso "guitar gods" whose combination of technique AND songwriting translated best in the context of a band to levels even Vai or Malmsteen couldn't quite match. 

Technique-wise his strong points are his strict adherence to alternate speed picking and his almost godlike ability to stay on pitch during those soaring sustained high notes.

I also truly think he's a natural guitar prodigy/savant. Anyone who can write an album on the level of Train of Thought in three weeks is, well, a freak of nature.

Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: wolfking on July 01, 2018, 06:12:54 AM
I don't know what the switching of pickups has to do with the conversation.  It's a common, simple thing a lot of guitarists do, it's nothing special or technically amazing.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on July 01, 2018, 06:26:10 AM
I don't even know what that means.  :lol

I mean, switching pickups, I think I understand, but I never knew you could do that or what the application would be.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: wolfking on July 01, 2018, 06:36:18 AM
I don't even know what that means.  :lol

I mean, switching pickups, I think I understand, but I never knew you could do that or what the application would be.

Bridge pickup, usually used for rhythm most of the time with a brighter tone and think Adrian Smith tones when soloing.  Neck pickup mostly used for soloing, more smoother and think Dave Murray tones when soloing.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on July 01, 2018, 06:44:56 AM
Oh..Iron Maiden. Now everything makes sense! :metal
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on July 01, 2018, 08:32:32 AM
Petrucci's "legacy" is the influence he's had on the current generation of metal guitarists from Avenged Sevenfold to Animals as Leaders, etc.

He's also one of the few virtuoso "guitar gods" whose combination of technique AND songwriting translated best in the context of a band to levels even Vai or Malmsteen couldn't quite match. 

Technique-wise his strong points are his strict adherence to alternate speed picking and his almost godlike ability to stay on pitch during those soaring sustained high notes.

I also truly think he's a natural guitar prodigy/savant. Anyone who can write an album on the level of Train of Thought in three weeks is, well, a freak of nature.

This is a great point.  :tup :tup
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on July 01, 2018, 07:49:12 PM
Been watching the Live At Budokan 2017 clips tonight and holy crap..JP  :hefdaddy

Such amazing passages.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: gzarruk on July 01, 2018, 09:24:21 PM
Something that I've noticed is that JP hasn't done a lot of guest work on other artist's projects. Jordan, for example, guests on one or two albums every year, but John only has a handful of guest spots here and there. Would love to see him work with other artists, outside of DT, as a guest or side project, to hear him in different settings.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Volante99 on July 01, 2018, 10:00:20 PM
Petrucci's "legacy" is the influence he's had on the current generation of metal guitarists from Avenged Sevenfold to Animals as Leaders, etc.

He's also one of the few virtuoso "guitar gods" whose combination of technique AND songwriting translated best in the context of a band to levels even Vai or Malmsteen couldn't quite match. 

Technique-wise his strong points are his strict adherence to alternate speed picking and his almost godlike ability to stay on pitch during those soaring sustained high notes.

I also truly think he's a natural guitar prodigy/savant. Anyone who can write an album on the level of Train of Thought in three weeks is, well, a freak of nature.

This is a great point.  :tup :tup

Thanks. To be fair I think some of Vai's tastiest playing was with DLR and the Sex & Religion group. But unlike Petrucci, playing in a band won't be Vai's "legacy". That said, I'd kill to have Vai do another album with Townsend without all the early 90s trappings (and egos).
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: mikeyd23 on July 02, 2018, 08:36:17 AM
Been watching the Live At Budokan 2017 clips tonight and holy crap..JP  :hefdaddy

Such amazing passages.

Yup, he sounds killer on that!
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Drinktheater on August 04, 2018, 08:40:26 AM
He was number 4 when I did my favorite guitarists countdown list a couple years ago,

Who were your Top 3?

My influences as a guitarist is very limited much more the pieces and I guitarists that I play.

He is in my Top 3  he is top 3.

1.Satch.
2.Vai
3.Petrucci.

Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 08, 2018, 03:56:16 PM
Listening to my Astonishing Abridged right now. JP's solo in When Your Time Has Come is sneaky amazing.

I suppose Tim, but the callbacks.  Why does this song sound like This Is The Life Pt. 2?  I love TITL.  I don't want to hear something similar on another album.


Been watching the Live At Budokan 2017 clips tonight and holy crap..JP  :hefdaddy

Such amazing passages.

I need to check that out.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: bosk1 on August 08, 2018, 03:58:11 PM
What do you find similar between When Your Time Has Come and This Is the Life?  I never drew any connections between those two songs, so I'm curious to know what you are hearing there.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: TAC on August 08, 2018, 04:04:26 PM
I want to say something about This Is The Life. Now I'm not saying it's anywhere close to my favorite song, although I do love it. But I think it might be their best written song ever. It's almost perfect.
Title: Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
Post by: Drinktheater on August 30, 2018, 11:40:44 AM
He is top 3 for me back when I cared for ranking my favorite guitarist.

1.Satriani
2.Vai
3.Petrucci

You must love G3 Live in Tokyo then :biggrin:

For sure,

Had Petrucci been in the first G3 instead of Eric Johnson and had I been given the chance to watch that live and meet the three of them at the meet and greet I might scream like a little girl! Back in 97 lol.