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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: WildRanger on March 31, 2018, 02:30:58 PM

Title: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: WildRanger on March 31, 2018, 02:30:58 PM
In your opinion which one between these 3 bands and why?
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: DTA on March 31, 2018, 02:40:57 PM
I don’t think any member has ever mentioned Sabbath as being an influence. Rush, Metallica, Yes, Maiden, and Marillion seem to cover it.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: ChuckSteak on March 31, 2018, 03:21:02 PM
The only objective answer to this question would be the one from the band itself.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: MirrorMask on March 31, 2018, 03:35:18 PM
I don’t think any member has ever mentioned Sabbath as being an influence. Rush, Metallica, Yes, Maiden, and Marillion seem to cover it.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: The Walrus on March 31, 2018, 05:51:34 PM
Okay, it's like, if Rush and Metallica had a baby together, and Iron Maiden and Marillion had a baby together, and by some miracle those two babies met, and had their own baby together, that baby is Dream Theater.

... I chose Rush.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: ChuckSteak on March 31, 2018, 06:26:03 PM
Okay, it's like, if Rush and Metallica had a baby together, and Iron Maiden and Marillion had a baby together, and by some miracle those two babies met, and had their own baby together, that baby is Dream Theater.

... I chose Rush.
Pineapple Express.  ;D
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: jammindude on March 31, 2018, 06:35:10 PM
There needs to be an Earth, Wind and Fire option
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: gzarruk on March 31, 2018, 07:19:47 PM
Let's not Rush to any conclusions ;)
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: The Walrus on March 31, 2018, 07:43:10 PM
Okay, it's like, if Rush and Metallica had a baby together, and Iron Maiden and Marillion had a baby together, and by some miracle those two babies met, and had their own baby together, that baby is Dream Theater.

... I chose Rush.
Pineapple Express.  ;D

I love that movie so much.  :lol
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: ChuckSteak on March 31, 2018, 07:48:49 PM
Okay, it's like, if Rush and Metallica had a baby together, and Iron Maiden and Marillion had a baby together, and by some miracle those two babies met, and had their own baby together, that baby is Dream Theater.

... I chose Rush.
Pineapple Express.  ;D

I love that movie so much.  :lol
"This is the product of baby fucking."  :lol

I love that movie too.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Herrick on March 31, 2018, 10:33:38 PM
I'd say Rush because they were the common early influence of Petrucci, Myung, & Portnoy. I think Petrucci and Myung got into Maiden after they met Portnoy. When Day & Dream Unite is much more Rush-like than Maiden.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: WildRanger on April 01, 2018, 04:33:43 AM
Now I see why on this board Rush is more beloved band than Black Sabbath, in fact the most beloved band after DT.
 
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Elite on April 01, 2018, 04:42:12 AM
Sons of Apollo
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: DragonAttack on April 01, 2018, 06:15:02 AM
Majesty
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Anguyen92 on April 01, 2018, 08:52:31 AM
Now I see why on this board Rush is more beloved band than Black Sabbath, in fact the most beloved band after DT.

Yes, and?  I didn't care much about Black Sabbath.  Didn't care much when I heard that they were calling it quits as a touring band and didn't feel much when they played their final show in Birmingham, last year.

When Rush played their final show at the Forum in Inglewood (probably going to be my biggest regret, not seeing that particular show or the show before in Irvine, but I was a broke college kid back then) back in 2015 and I saw that picture of Neil arms around in front with Geddy and Alex at the end of the show (and we know he never does that at all), man, that one hit me hard to think that this is actually going to be it for them as a band.

Anyway, I don't think I ever really hear from DT any mentions as Sabbath as a primary influence.  Rush, Maiden, Yes, Metallica.  Definitely.  Sabbath?  Not so much.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Herrick on April 01, 2018, 02:47:15 PM
Anyway, I don't think I ever really hear from DT any mentions as Sabbath as a primary influence.  Rush, Maiden, Yes, Metallica.  Definitely.  Sabbath?  Not so much.

Yeah Sabbath was an odd choice for the poll.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: rumborak on April 03, 2018, 12:25:11 PM
There's an WWRD meme, but no WWIMD meme. So, Rush it is.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Peter Mc on April 04, 2018, 06:56:08 AM
I'd say Rush because they were the common early influence of Petrucci, Myung, & Portnoy. I think Petrucci and Myung got into Maiden after they met Portnoy. When Day & Dream Unite is much more Rush-like than Maiden.

I'm sure I read that Myung used to practice bass to a sped up version of the Number Of The Beast album in his youth.  I think the Metallica influence was brought in by Portnoy though.  I wouldn't argue with Rush being the main influence with the long songs, weird time signatures and technical playing, Maiden definitely an influence though in terms of the melodic and vocal style and then there is a thrash influence from Metallica and Megadeth in particular.  I always describe them as Rush meets Maiden meets Metallica.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: bosk1 on April 04, 2018, 08:58:37 AM
I think the Metallica influence was brought in by Portnoy though. 

Both Johns were huge into Metallica as well.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 04, 2018, 09:06:52 AM
I think the Metallica influence was brought in by Portnoy though. 

Both Johns were huge into Metallica as well.

For sure, JP often talks about how James Hetfield influenced his playing along with guys like Steve Morse and Alex Lifeson.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: gzarruk on April 04, 2018, 09:41:46 AM
I think the Metallica influence was brought in by Portnoy though. 

Both Johns were huge into Metallica as well.

For sure, JP often talks about how James Hetfield influenced his playing along with guys like Steve Morse and Alex Lifeson.

Yes, when JP talks about his rhythm guitar parts/sounds, he always mentions classic Metallica albums like MOP as big influences.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Peter Mc on April 04, 2018, 05:02:15 PM
Again, and this is purely from my increasingly unreliable memory, I seem to remember JP saying that, prior to meeting Mike Portnoy at college, they’d never listened to Metallica. That’s not to say that they didn’t subsequently become big fans and it has not influenced his playing but I have always understood that Portnoy introduced the two Johns to the world of thrash metal.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: KevShmev on April 04, 2018, 05:22:09 PM
I'd say Rush because they were the common early influence of Petrucci, Myung, & Portnoy. I think Petrucci and Myung got into Maiden after they met Portnoy. When Day & Dream Unite is much more Rush-like than Maiden.

I'm sure I read that Myung used to practice bass to a sped up version of the Number Of The Beast album in his youth.  I think the Metallica influence was brought in by Portnoy though.  I wouldn't argue with Rush being the main influence with the long songs, weird time signatures and technical playing, Maiden definitely an influence though in terms of the melodic and vocal style and then there is a thrash influence from Metallica and Megadeth in particular.  I always describe them as Rush meets Maiden meets Metallica.

Even though Dream Theater doesn't really sound like them, I think Yes is the main influence when it comes to their super proggy elements. 
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Herrick on April 04, 2018, 11:58:10 PM
Again, and this is purely from my increasingly unreliable memory, I seem to remember JP saying that, prior to meeting Mike Portnoy at college, they’d never listened to Metallica. That’s not to say that they didn’t subsequently become big fans and it has not influenced his playing but I have always understood that Portnoy introduced the two Johns to the world of thrash metal.

Yes. In the 20th Anniversary Documentary Petrucci said, "Even Metallica. I remember him turning me on to Master of Puppets."

Anyone know which bands were the main early influence on Moore?
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Setlist Scotty on April 05, 2018, 12:52:31 PM
Early on (while they were in Berklee), the two bands that they had in common were Rush and Iron Maiden. So those two bands had the strongest influence early on. However, over time, and especially once MP left, JP's mantra of WWRD has been followed often. (I just wish he'd use that mantra regarding rotating Evening With setlists and click tracks in a live setting)
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Herrick on April 05, 2018, 07:47:50 PM
Early on (while they were in Berklee), the two bands that they had in common were Rush and Iron Maiden. So those two bands had the strongest influence early on. However, over time, and especially once MP left, JP's mantra of WWRD has been followed often. (I just wish he'd use that mantra regarding rotating Evening With setlists and click tracks in a live setting)

What's WWRD?
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: KevShmev on April 05, 2018, 07:54:36 PM
What Would Rush Do?
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: ChuckSteak on April 05, 2018, 09:59:17 PM
Whirlwind With Random Dogs?  :hat
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: MirrorMask on April 06, 2018, 01:43:47 AM
Whirlwind With Random Dogs?  :hat

Next tour they're gonna resume the cover albums tradition, and play Transatlantic's The Whirlwind in full and Raw Dog as encore  :o
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: gzarruk on April 06, 2018, 09:01:52 AM
Whirlwind With Random Dogs?  :hat

Next tour they're gonna resume the cover albums tradition, and play Transatlantic's The Whirlwind in full and Raw Dog as encore  :o

With special guests: The Winery Dogs
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: ChuckSteak on April 06, 2018, 10:08:53 AM
Whirlwind With Random Dogs?  :hat

Next tour they're gonna resume the cover albums tradition, and play Transatlantic's The Whirlwind in full and Raw Dog as encore  :o

With special guests: The Winery Dogs
And I will be like: shut up and take my money!  :metal :metal :metal
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Herrick on April 06, 2018, 10:38:46 AM
What Would Rush Do?

That was my guess but the part about Petrucci & WWRD threw me off. Other than The Looking Glass, I don't see him trying to emulate Rush all that much.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Dublagent66 on April 06, 2018, 10:55:05 AM
What Would Rush Do?

That was my guess but the part about Petrucci & WWRD threw me off. Other than The Looking Glass, I don't see him trying to emulate Rush all that much.

Agreed.  Especially not lately.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: bosk1 on April 06, 2018, 12:00:55 PM
What Would Rush Do?

That was my guess but the part about Petrucci & WWRD threw me off. Other than The Looking Glass, I don't see him trying to emulate Rush all that much.

I wouldn't say "emulate" is the right word.  But a heavy Rush influence has been present from the band's inception.  I think it just varies in terms of how obvious it is.  I hear a LOT of Rush on WDADU.  And I don't think various fans making Rush connections on various albums on throughout the entire timeline is a coincidence.  To me, after WDADU, it was pretty subtle until recently.  I hear it a lot on DT12, most prominently on The Looking Glass, as you mentioned, and Surrender To Reason.  And of course, TA draws inspiration from 2112.  So lots of Rush on the last two albums. 
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: rumborak on April 06, 2018, 12:08:41 PM
There were also non-musical WWRD moments. When Rush started doing funny animated shorts about themselves, DT quickly followed suit. JM playing the Moog Taurus is probably another one.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: pg1067 on April 06, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
Like any good band, their influences showed early on and then were combined into a unique DT sound.  However, DT has readily admitted to doing some songs or parts of songs as overt nods to their influences.

The bass line at the beginning of Home is apparently very reminiscent of Tool, and there's a Rush/Freewill section in Dance of Eternity.
Solitary Shell sounds to me VERY much like Rabin era Yes, and the guitar intro to About to Crash Reprise has a clear Styx vibe.
The synth solo in Octavarium and the solo in Along for the Ride both are nods to Keith Emerson
As mentioned, Looking Glass is an intentionally and overtly "Rushy" sounding song, and I think the bass part in the Pursuit of Truth section of Illumination Theory is reminiscent of Cygnus X-1, Book I.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Herrick on April 06, 2018, 01:03:09 PM
What Would Rush Do?

That was my guess but the part about Petrucci & WWRD threw me off. Other than The Looking Glass, I don't see him trying to emulate Rush all that much.

I wouldn't say "emulate" is the right word.  But a heavy Rush influence has been present from the band's inception.  I think it just varies in terms of how obvious it is.  I hear a LOT of Rush on WDADU.  And I don't think various fans making Rush connections on various albums on throughout the entire timeline is a coincidence.  To me, after WDADU, it was pretty subtle until recently.  I hear it a lot on DT12, most prominently on The Looking Glass, as you mentioned, and Surrender To Reason.  And of course, TA draws inspiration from 2112.  So lots of Rush on the last two albums.

Big fail for Herrick. I forgot about The Astonishing. There's even a post on here somewhere where I criticized the concept of The Astonishing for being too much like 2112.


As mentioned, Looking Glass is an intentionally and overtly "Rushy" sounding song, and I think the bass part in the Pursuit of Truth section of Illumination Theory is reminiscent of Cygnus X-1, Book I.

Ah good call about Cygnus X-1 and that bass part in Illumination Theory.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Setlist Scotty on April 06, 2018, 01:11:38 PM
It's not just the musical influence that JP (and DT by extension) use when it comes to WWRD - it applies to many different things, which is why I included the comments about the rotating setlists and live click track. Other stuff includes using Hugh Syme for album artwork, the presentation of the band live (lighting, video, etc) and I'd imagine even the behind-the-scenes stuff of running the business end of the band. Rush is/was a very successful band that JP respects highly, so when faced with a situation/problem/dilemma, he is likely to ask himself WWRD and generally follow what he knows or thinks they would do.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: DT2003 on April 07, 2018, 07:16:00 PM
Definitely Rush. Songs from the Majesty days and parts of When Dream and Day Unite have a heavy Rush feel to me.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: goo-goo on April 09, 2018, 10:35:57 AM
For me, it feels like the classic DT sound is more Rush influenced than the other two. However, when things get heavy, seems like they are more influenced by Maiden.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Plasmastrike on April 11, 2018, 08:45:57 AM
Of the 3 bands listed, it's obvious and well-known that Rush is the most influential for them.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: JediKnight1969 on April 11, 2018, 03:09:52 PM
I don’t think any member has ever mentioned Sabbath as being an influence. Rush, Metallica, Yes, Maiden, and Marillion seem to cover it.

I'd add Pink Floyd, Kansas and a bit of Deep Purple.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: jclrascal on April 16, 2018, 10:51:41 PM
Hey guys, after about 5 years of just being a "lurker", I am now an official registered member of this board and thought I would create my first post!  Just as an FYI, I have been a DT fan since 1992 and hearing IAW for the first time so I am not a rookie in that regard...have also been fortunate enough to see them live now 3 times including 2nd row center seats on TA tour in 2016 and front row seats for this past IAW 25th anniversary tour...

As far as "influences" on DT, as most of us know, they are quite varied and the list is long which is why their sound is so unique and hard to categorize.  Here's how I would classify their influences:

PRIMARY INFLUENCES

1.  Rush
2.  Iron Maiden
3.  Metallica
4.  Pink Floyd
5.  Queensryche
6.  Yes

SECONDARY INFLUENCES

1.  Deep Purple
2.  Queen
3.  Marillion
4.  Genesis
5.  Kansas
6.  The Who

While their songwriting and sound is a melting pot of all of these bands, they also draw from a whole bunch of other bands as well but I believe these are their top dozen collective influences...

Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Sycsa on April 17, 2018, 04:28:09 AM
I've never seen it mentioned, but I always thought Kansas was an influence. In my view, the way Kansas fused straightforward hard rock with prog is quite similar to how DT fused metal with prog. No other prog band had that riffy classic rock edge that Kansas did. It's complex, but instantly accessible. Like DT.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: noxon on April 17, 2018, 06:26:46 AM
I think you forgot the song that followed "In The Flesh?" on the Big Medley on ACOS ;)
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Herrick on April 17, 2018, 09:11:51 AM
Hey guys, after about 5 years of just being a "lurker", I am now an official registered member of this board and thought I would create my first post!  Just as an FYI, I have been a DT fan since 1992 and hearing IAW for the first time so I am not a rookie in that regard...have also been fortunate enough to see them live now 3 times including 2nd row center seats on TA tour in 2016 and front row seats for this past IAW 25th anniversary tour...

As far as "influences" on DT, as most of us know, they are quite varied and the list is long which is why their sound is so unique and hard to categorize.  Here's how I would classify their influences:

PRIMARY INFLUENCES

1.  Rush
2.  Iron Maiden
3.  Metallica
4.  Pink Floyd
5.  Queensryche
6.  Yes

SECONDARY INFLUENCES

1.  Deep Purple
2.  Queen
3.  Marillion
4.  Genesis
5.  Kansas
6.  The Who

While their songwriting and sound is a melting pot of all of these bands, they also draw from a whole bunch of other bands as well but I believe these are their top dozen collective influences...

Cool and welcome. What took you so long to sign up  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: pg1067 on April 17, 2018, 10:01:20 AM
As far as "influences" on DT, as most of us know, they are quite varied and the list is long which is why their sound is so unique and hard to categorize.  Here's how I would classify their influences:

PRIMARY INFLUENCES

1.  Rush
2.  Iron Maiden
3.  Metallica
4.  Pink Floyd
5.  Queensryche
6.  Yes

SECONDARY INFLUENCES

1.  Deep Purple
2.  Queen
3.  Marillion
4.  Genesis
5.  Kansas
6.  The Who

While their songwriting and sound is a melting pot of all of these bands, they also draw from a whole bunch of other bands as well but I believe these are their top dozen collective influences...

I don't necessarily disagree with any of these, but these lists omit artists like Al DiMeola and Dixie Dregs/Steve Morse.  While these might be more specifically influences on Petrucci, that necessarily makes them influences on the band.  I recall playing Metropolis Pt. 1 for a friend back in late 92-early 93.  He specifically commented that the middle instrumental section was reminiscent of the Dregs.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Sycsa on April 18, 2018, 03:49:51 AM
I think you forgot the song that followed "In The Flesh?" on the Big Medley on ACOS ;)
I knew they covered Carry on Wayward Son (and Paradox, too - too bad for that weak organ tone), but I meant that I never saw Kansas cited as an influence, either by the band or by the press/fans. But I guess covering two of their songs is proof enough of influence.
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: jammindude on April 18, 2018, 04:31:31 PM
Where’s the Earth, Wind and Fire option?
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Adami on April 18, 2018, 04:32:13 PM
Where’s the Earth, Wind and Fire option?

You think EW&F are a greater influence on DT than Rush or Maiden? Or do you just hear some of their influence and like them best?
Title: Re: Which band was more influential on Dream Theater: Rush or Sabbath or Maiden?
Post by: Anxiety35 on April 19, 2018, 07:13:05 AM
When I first heard DT (Images & Words) I thought it was a combination of Rush and Metallica, except for LaBrie's vocals. Since then, there's always been more of a hint of Rush and Metallica in their music although it is clear there are many more influences.

I'd say another bing influence is Pink Floyd.