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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on March 08, 2018, 10:03:04 AM
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Share your views on KISS.
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No real interest in anything of theirs.
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Well, depends if they're given with passion or they're more than a peck.
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No interest in anything of theirs, either. I wouldn't say they suck, though. They were certainly creative and they worked their asses off.
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Well, depends if they're given with passion or they're more than a peck.
:lol
I'm a sucker for Kiss. I say not!
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Kiss, suck or not. I'll take suck please.
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KISS is a generally crappy band that had a few good songs 35+ years ago and who had a schtick that worked 35+ years ago but is now just sad. The only thing of theirs I ever bought was (I think) a 45 RPM single for All Hell's Breaking Loose (and I believe my wife bought Lick It Up).
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Where's the 'Blow' option? From these options, they suck!
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Kiss suck aye
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Nope, I'm a big fan of their music. Can't stand Gene though.
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KISS is not my thing. But I get why people gravitated to them. Just like kids in the late 90s and early 2000s are big on Slipknot. It's a show, an image, all of that. KISS is about partying, and tits and ass, with a larger than life image. All good fun.
I think they suck, but of course, Gene $immon$ and Paul $tanley would just roll by in their Bentleys...and pretty much laugh.
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Beth is about the only song I would go out of my way to listen to. But they did introduce hard rock/metal to a lot of young teens so in that regard they did a great job.
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I don't care for their music. However, they are masters at marketing. The characters and image are what made them and what has kept them around for so long. The image compensated for their lack of good music. Gene Simmons once said that they wanted to be the Beatles of hard rock. They're not even close. If they were a band without the makeup and costumes, they wouldn't have gotten far.
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If I grew up in the era I'm still not sure if I'd hate them or find them fun enough to enjoy. Perhaps if I was a kid when I discovered them, but I really don't understand why KISS has any staying power with anyone musically - they're pretty bad. Maybe poor Stadler can enlighten us - one of his favorite bands is taking a thrashing here :)
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I want to say no?
But honestly I haven't heard enough of their full catalogue to make a judgement call.
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I don't care much about their music, but I do appreciate their (and by their, I mean Gene and Paul) bluntness and honesty in interviews. They make no quarrels that they are in it in the money and would like to make as much money as possible and would put their image on anything if it makes them money.
It's better than them saying they are doing the KISS tours for fabricated reasons that they do this for the art and music and for the fans and money doesn't mean anything in that context (to them, money is everything in the context) and I appreciate that sort of honesty unlike other bands' tours.
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If Trump was a rock band, I think he would be KISS.
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If I grew up in the era I'm still not sure if I'd hate them or find them fun enough to enjoy. Perhaps if I was a kid when I discovered them, but I really don't understand why KISS has any staying power with anyone musically - they're pretty bad. Maybe poor Stadler can enlighten us - one of his favorite bands is taking a thrashing here :)
If you were of Eric Foreman's generation you'd have adored them.
It's not surprising that in a DT message board people focus on musicianship, something KISS was fundamentally lacking, but there's more to it than that. They were pioneers in a couple of areas, and one of them includes the music they played which was a core component of their image and their popularity.
I'm curious how they'd be thought of if they'd hung it up back when they should have. They've gone on so long that they've become a parody. Their shtick no longer works when you've got bands doing it for real.
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It's not even the technical aspect that bothers me, it's just that their songs are like the textbook example of how to make awful rock music :lol
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They were my gateway into rock music. I was born in the early 70's, and they were cultural icons in my youth. They wrote some good rock songs from their first album through to Love Gun, and I still go back on occasion and give that stuff a listen. Of course their music is very simplistic, but their aim was never to be more than that with the exception of The Elder.
I'm also torn about Paul and Gene's attitudes. In some ways they never would have achieved their success without being that way. But some of the things that they say is often cringe inducing.
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I stand with Stadler, they don't suck.
Some stuff is not great, but some is really good.
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The hottest band in the world?
They inspired huge amounts of musicians and put on the best show around.
They decidedly did not suck.
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The hottest band in the world?
They inspired huge amounts of musicians and put on the best show around.
They decidedly did not suck.
I agree .
Their goal was to put on the show -as much visual as aural- that nobody else was and they still do. They have admittedly gone on a decade or more too long , but to me that doesn't diminish their legacy.
A few other points:
- to me each of their albums had a good dose of (basic rock) filler but many of their best songs were far from simple in terms of songwriting IMHO
- when they tried to get too "smart" it generally WAS a big failure
- as far as Gene and Paul go..............the more I learn the more I am believing that Gene is a kindhearted guy playing the character of an asshole and (at least until he released his book and it became more obvious :lol ) Paul is an asshole playing the nice guy.
I wouldn't say that a lot of the best material of the Stones , Beatles or even Michael Jackson was "complex" , so outside of a prog forum I am not sure that simplicity is a valid critcism ;D
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
:neverusethis:
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Well, I have to say that their spider entrance on the last tour was one of the most badass and awesomest things ever witnessed on a stage. And I've only watched it on YouTube, I can imagine what it was like being there!
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(https://www.mopt.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/EventPage_22.jpg) :metal :metal
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So this question about KISS's suckage has me wondering. Does Rammstein suck? I personally like their music better, but they're certainly not overflowing with musicianship. They're a band that plays catchy tunes and offsets their shortcomings with a spectacular stage show. What's the difference aside from personal preference?
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I think you're getting too metaphysical, Barto. I think "sucks" in this context can simply be equated with "I don't like them." So, yes, Rammstein sucks too. :p
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I don't care for their music and I think Gene is pretty arrogant but any band that can survive for 4 decades don't "suck" They must have millions of fans who follow them and love their music, I may not agree but that does take somewhat level of talent and marketing skills.
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They are a core part of rock/metal DNA in my opinion.
The seventies New York swagger and brazen enthusiasm of their best tracks is totally unbeatable. And Paul has a terrific voice.
90% of their output is very bad... I get why people don't like them. But if you need some pure rock cheese? Accept no substitute.
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I'm not a fan at all. Dunno if I'd say they suck though.
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Weird topic, but I don't think you should "suck" while kissing. That's a little weird, and it's a bit noisy. Using a little tongue might be fine, but I would talk it over beforehand because some people aren't in to that. Communication is key to any relationship or spontaneous make out session.
I can't count the number of times I've had make out sessions ruined by slurping noises from sucking. Mainly because you can't really count things that never happened.
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I've never liked anything I've heard by Kiss. I'm not sure that can be translated into me thinking they "suck".
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Definitely not. There's plenty of KISS that I like across all eras.
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Hell no, I'm not a huge fan of them but it just feels stupid to say they "suck." I've enjoyed a lot of what I've heard by them.
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I find it hard to believe that anyone who loves good straight up hard rock wouldn't at least "really like" those first 6 albums. Ace is an underrated player, and a lot of those songs shred.
Everything after the opening six is spotty. But Creatures of the Night and Lick It Up are good. I personally think The Elder is amazing, but like Gene once said, "It's a good album, it's just not a good KISS album." It was just too different for them. Which is too bad, because I could tell what they were going for. I actually think it works as a prog rock album (in its original track listing, anyway).
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I like Detroit Rock City but dislike everything else by them. And their “trademark and sell everything” style really rubs me the wrong way. Gene Simmons trying to trademark the metal horns when he didn’t invent them and doesn’t even do them right is a perfect example of everything that I hate about him and the band.
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So this question about KISS's suckage has me wondering. Does Rammstein suck? I personally like their music better, but they're certainly not overflowing with musicianship. They're a band that plays catchy tunes and offsets their shortcomings with a spectacular stage show. What's the difference aside from personal preference?
Sense of humour. I've never had much sense that KISS allow one within a 10 mile radius of them. Rammstein are daft as brushes, albeit in a very German way.
KISS both suck and don't. I do love a handful of their songs (e.g. Lick It Up, Crazy Crazy Nights, Rock 'n' Roll All Night, amongst others) and you've got to give them credit for the iconic image and their commitment to putting on a show... but ultimately it's hard to ignore the suspicion that they succeeded far more on marketing than on the strength of their songs.
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Absolutely not.
Their first 10 albums contain some of the most fun rock songs I've ever heard.
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I find it hard to believe that anyone who loves good straight up hard rock wouldn't at least "really like" those first 6 albums. Ace is an underrated player, and a lot of those songs shred.
This. I think they're a great rock band with good, catchy tunes. One thing I appreciate is the use of two guitars both playing differentish parts. It's very well done, a bit like the Beatles and Stones did.
I don't give a crap about what they do offstage, it's just good, fun Rock n' Roll.
...and I happen to disagree that Gene is not a good bassist. He did pretty well.
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Never cared for Kiss, but when I was younger I did like "Rock and Roll All Night", but then I got older and 98 Rock would play the live version all the time and then I hated it.
The only Kiss song I do like is Iced Earth's cover of Creatures of the Night.
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Never cared for Kiss, but when I was younger I did like "Rock and Roll All Night", but then I got older and 98 Rock would play the live version all the time and then I hated it.
The only Kiss song I do like is Iced Earth's cover of Creatures of the Night.
+1 on the IE cover; the cover of God of Thunder is all right too but just as a song I don't think that one is good
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The live albums all kick ass, especially Alive III. That one is so heavy. These guys are just an institution in rock and roll.
I saw them once on the Farewell Tour in 2000. All four original members, in makeup, with pyro. Gene spitting blood and singing God of Thunder from the lighting rig, Paul flying out into the crowd to sing Love Gun, and the first tour where they played non-makeup era songs in makeup. Peter Criss singing Beth and saying "hello Chicago," while the concert was actually 2.5 hours south in Champaign :rollin. All from the 7th row. That was an incredible concert. I've never felt like I needed to see them again after that.
So no, they don't suck. And neither does Rammstein. :metal
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(https://www.mopt.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/EventPage_22.jpg) :metal :metal
Well, I DID see that show, and I've seen Kiss more than any other band (and will very definitely see them again if circumstances allow).
I don't know what to say to some of this stuff, but "Kiss" is like bourbon or vodka; you either like it or you don't. Kiss Alive II was the first (or second; might have been "The Stranger" by Billy Joel) record I bought with my own money, and I've been hooked ever since. I think saying "Oh, but they can't play" is bullshit; it's like saying "Well, Van Halen sucks because their lyrics are bad". Certainly - his voice today notwithstanding - Paul Stanley had almost 40 years of top tier live singing and he's one of the best frontmen in rock history (certainly, every bit as good as the likes of Vince Neil and Ozzy). Even the last time I saw them - in 2014 with Def Leppard - it wasn't that Paul "SUCKED!", but he just wasn't Paul of 1976. Ace has influenced 100's of guitar players, including, if you believe it, the aforementioned Eddie Van Halen. The only one I think really did strike the lottery was Peter Criss. His drumming was great on Hotter Than Hell, but it goes down quickly from there, and added to a lack-luster voice and writing shitty songs, well, he's a bust (BTW, rumors are that he did little of the writing for Beth, and that it was Stan Penridge that did most of the heavy lifting).
I can only relate the following:
- I took my daughter to the 2014 show. After Def Leppard, she commented on how good the guitar players were, and how she loves to sing along with them. After Kiss, she took a shot not that different than the one above (but with the pinwheels of fire during RnRAN), posted it on Instagram and wrote "Greatest night of my life!"
- During that show, they played 75 minutes, and started off sort of flat. First four songs I was thinking "wow, my kid's not going to dig this.", and then Gene's rig failed as he was lifted up and he got stuck. He also got PISSED. He said something to Paul, then for most of the rest of the next song, he was at stage right barking at a roadie. Well, it was like a switch was flicked and the band realized they had to kick it up a notch. They finished the last 45 minutes to an hour was some of the best live Kiss I've ever heard. They were on FIRE. Even my kid said on the way home "Dad, what happened? it was like there were two different Kiss' on stage!"
- I've met Paul and Gene twice; the first time on the Lick It Up tour. It was a line, and Paul was talking to two girls, so I was stuck in front of Gene. He was the nicest guy and the LAST thing from a "rock star asshole". I had the inserts from the Kiss Alive! and Alive II records, and he walked through the pictures with me while the line waited for Paul. "Oh, I remember this! There was no audience, we just played Deuce through and the guy took pictures". "Oh, I remember that!" He had a neat little story for almost every picture we looked at. Later, like 15 years later, (with the Kisstory books) the secrets came out about ghost players and stuff, and it came out that the cover of Alive! was staged.... well Gene told me that 15 years ago. :)
- I met Paul - with my wife and daughter - at a painting exhibition. He got down on one knee and talked to my daughter - 7 or so at the time - and talked to her like she was the most important person on the planet. Asking her about her dress, and her earrings... she didn't know this guy from a row of assholes, but knew a) that her dad looked up to him, and b) "he sang Beth", and that was enough. And he did nothing to disavow that view. Gentleman across the board (though I agree he is more asshole pretending to be nice than the other way around).
- I got to sing with Gene on stage during his solo tour last year. (not JUST me, about 8 or 10 of us). Fun, unassuming, no rock star bullshit, and I stood about two feet from him as he played and sang I Love It Loud. At the end he turned to me, fist bumped and said "having fun?" with that big goofy smile, and he genuinely meant it. He was there to deliver fun, nothing more, nothing less. If I didn't have kids in college, I would ABSOLUTELY buy the vault, not for the music, but to meet him again and sit and talk with him. I do think he's a genuinely nice guy, a big kid, a big fan, that also likes seeming tough and so has his moments. I think he's also blunt, and that rubs people the wrong way sometimes.
By the way, the Dan Rather interview with Gene is a must-listen.
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Those are some great personal memories about Kiss to have! :metal
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The live albums all kick ass, especially Alive III. That one is so heavy. These guys are just an institution in rock and roll.
Such a great tour.
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I vote No. I'm not a huge fan, but they have some solid songs and if you have solid songs then you don't suck. I'd say they have some music that does suck though, hence why I am not a fan, but some of their hits are really awesome IMO.
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I vote No. I'm not a huge fan, but they have some solid songs and if you have solid songs then you don't suck. I'd say they have some music that does suck though, hence why I am not a fan, but some of their hits are really awesome IMO.
This is an interesting argument to me. For example, Motley Crue has exactly one album of good material and that's their 1998 Greatest Hits compilation. But not a single one of their studio albums is actually 'good' to me. So does the band suck? I would argue yes, if one looks at their entire repertoire and they perceive that all of their 'good' material (subjective, of course, as always) can be boiled down to one disc, especially if they have 9 albums, the ratio of good:bad is not in their favor. But that's just me.
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I vote No. I'm not a huge fan, but they have some solid songs and if you have solid songs then you don't suck. I'd say they have some music that does suck though, hence why I am not a fan, but some of their hits are really awesome IMO.
This is an interesting argument to me. For example, Motley Crue has exactly one album of good material and that's their 1998 Greatest Hits compilation. But not a single one of their studio albums is actually 'good' to me. So does the band suck? I would argue yes, if one looks at their entire repertoire and they perceive that all of their 'good' material (subjective, of course, as always) can be boiled down to one disc, especially if they have 9 albums, the ratio of good:bad is not in their favor. But that's just me.
Yea but "suck" is a fairly extreme description. I would say I overall don't find Kiss to be good because I don't enjoy most of the music, but since they have some stuff I do enjoy, I can't say they suck. And that's just me.
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They kinda fall into 2 categories for me. Early stuff from the original band (1st 6 albums and Alive,Alive II) is great. I was a kid then and they were my favorite band at the time. The energy and passion they played with, worked hard every night to put on a great show. Watched some clips when they were on Midnight Special back in those days reconfirmed this in my opinion. What they were doing was innovative and fresh and they also rocked.
But it ended quickly after that IMO. There are some songs here and there that are ok from Creatures, Lick it Up and others. There image and show got old. Plus the music just had no appeal to me at all, just basic, crappy, generic Rock/Metal. Though I have no problems with Gene or Paul and how they market the band, keeping it alive with other musicians "playing" Ace and Peter, if people like it then more power to them I guess.
One other thing that soured my opinion at that time.
I will never forget how disappointed I was coming home, with Dynasty under my arm, super excited to listen to it. Then putting it on and going, Man this sucks!! I don't think I ever recovered from that!!! They weren't a "band" anymore IMO, to many outside influences, different writers, other musicians involved. I thought time to move on to other, better bands.
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(https://www.mopt.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/EventPage_22.jpg) :metal :metal
Well, I DID see that show, and I've seen Kiss more than any other band (and will very definitely see them again if circumstances allow).
I don't know what to say to some of this stuff, but "Kiss" is like bourbon or vodka; you either like it or you don't. Kiss Alive II was the first (or second; might have been "The Stranger" by Billy Joel) record I bought with my own money, and I've been hooked ever since. I think saying "Oh, but they can't play" is bullshit; it's like saying "Well, Van Halen sucks because their lyrics are bad". Certainly - his voice today notwithstanding - Paul Stanley had almost 40 years of top tier live singing and he's one of the best frontmen in rock history (certainly, every bit as good as the likes of Vince Neil and Ozzy). Even the last time I saw them - in 2014 with Def Leppard - it wasn't that Paul "SUCKED!", but he just wasn't Paul of 1976. Ace has influenced 100's of guitar players, including, if you believe it, the aforementioned Eddie Van Halen. The only one I think really did strike the lottery was Peter Criss. His drumming was great on Hotter Than Hell, but it goes down quickly from there, and added to a lack-luster voice and writing shitty songs, well, he's a bust (BTW, rumors are that he did little of the writing for Beth, and that it was Stan Penridge that did most of the heavy lifting).
I can only relate the following:
- I took my daughter to the 2014 show. After Def Leppard, she commented on how good the guitar players were, and how she loves to sing along with them. After Kiss, she took a shot not that different than the one above (but with the pinwheels of fire during RnRAN), posted it on Instagram and wrote "Greatest night of my life!"
- During that show, they played 75 minutes, and started off sort of flat. First four songs I was thinking "wow, my kid's not going to dig this.", and then Gene's rig failed as he was lifted up and he got stuck. He also got PISSED. He said something to Paul, then for most of the rest of the next song, he was at stage right barking at a roadie. Well, it was like a switch was flicked and the band realized they had to kick it up a notch. They finished the last 45 minutes to an hour was some of the best live Kiss I've ever heard. They were on FIRE. Even my kid said on the way home "Dad, what happened? it was like there were two different Kiss' on stage!"
- I've met Paul and Gene twice; the first time on the Lick It Up tour. It was a line, and Paul was talking to two girls, so I was stuck in front of Gene. He was the nicest guy and the LAST thing from a "rock star asshole". I had the inserts from the Kiss Alive! and Alive II records, and he walked through the pictures with me while the line waited for Paul. "Oh, I remember this! There was no audience, we just played Deuce through and the guy took pictures". "Oh, I remember that!" He had a neat little story for almost every picture we looked at. Later, like 15 years later, (with the Kisstory books) the secrets came out about ghost players and stuff, and it came out that the cover of Alive! was staged.... well Gene told me that 15 years ago. :)
- I met Paul - with my wife and daughter - at a painting exhibition. He got down on one knee and talked to my daughter - 7 or so at the time - and talked to her like she was the most important person on the planet. Asking her about her dress, and her earrings... she didn't know this guy from a row of assholes, but knew a) that her dad looked up to him, and b) "he sang Beth", and that was enough. And he did nothing to disavow that view. Gentleman across the board (though I agree he is more asshole pretending to be nice than the other way around).
- I got to sing with Gene on stage during his solo tour last year. (not JUST me, about 8 or 10 of us). Fun, unassuming, no rock star bullshit, and I stood about two feet from him as he played and sang I Love It Loud. At the end he turned to me, fist bumped and said "having fun?" with that big goofy smile, and he genuinely meant it. He was there to deliver fun, nothing more, nothing less. If I didn't have kids in college, I would ABSOLUTELY buy the vault, not for the music, but to meet him again and sit and talk with him. I do think he's a genuinely nice guy, a big kid, a big fan, that also likes seeming tough and so has his moments. I think he's also blunt, and that rubs people the wrong way sometimes.
By the way, the Dan Rather interview with Gene is a must-listen.
Those are great stories! I honestly wish that they would present those sides of themselves to the public more often in these later years.
I was very happy to see Paul work with Ace on that cover song and video a couple of years ago. Then Gene playing live with Ace last year at a benefit. All four of those gentlemen could use an image upgrade. I'm sure that it's within them, but they need to buy into the idea.
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Revisiting this thread.
I voted "yes," they suck, although there are a handful of songs I like. On the other hand, I was thinking earlier that I wish I had gotten to see them back in the mid- to late 70s. No real interest in seeing them now, though.
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Well, I DID see that show, and I've seen Kiss more than any other band (and will very definitely see them again if circumstances allow).
I don't know what to say to some of this stuff, but "Kiss" is like bourbon or vodka; you either like it or you don't. Kiss Alive II was the first (or second; might have been "The Stranger" by Billy Joel) record I bought with my own money, and I've been hooked ever since. I think saying "Oh, but they can't play" is bullshit; it's like saying "Well, Van Halen sucks because their lyrics are bad". Certainly - his voice today notwithstanding - Paul Stanley had almost 40 years of top tier live singing and he's one of the best frontmen in rock history (certainly, every bit as good as the likes of Vince Neil and Ozzy). Even the last time I saw them - in 2014 with Def Leppard - it wasn't that Paul "SUCKED!", but he just wasn't Paul of 1976. Ace has influenced 100's of guitar players, including, if you believe it, the aforementioned Eddie Van Halen. The only one I think really did strike the lottery was Peter Criss. His drumming was great on Hotter Than Hell, but it goes down quickly from there, and added to a lack-luster voice and writing shitty songs, well, he's a bust (BTW, rumors are that he did little of the writing for Beth, and that it was Stan Penridge that did most of the heavy lifting).
I can only relate the following:
- I took my daughter to the 2014 show. After Def Leppard, she commented on how good the guitar players were, and how she loves to sing along with them. After Kiss, she took a shot not that different than the one above (but with the pinwheels of fire during RnRAN), posted it on Instagram and wrote "Greatest night of my life!"
- During that show, they played 75 minutes, and started off sort of flat. First four songs I was thinking "wow, my kid's not going to dig this.", and then Gene's rig failed as he was lifted up and he got stuck. He also got PISSED. He said something to Paul, then for most of the rest of the next song, he was at stage right barking at a roadie. Well, it was like a switch was flicked and the band realized they had to kick it up a notch. They finished the last 45 minutes to an hour was some of the best live Kiss I've ever heard. They were on FIRE. Even my kid said on the way home "Dad, what happened? it was like there were two different Kiss' on stage!"
- I've met Paul and Gene twice; the first time on the Lick It Up tour. It was a line, and Paul was talking to two girls, so I was stuck in front of Gene. He was the nicest guy and the LAST thing from a "rock star asshole". I had the inserts from the Kiss Alive! and Alive II records, and he walked through the pictures with me while the line waited for Paul. "Oh, I remember this! There was no audience, we just played Deuce through and the guy took pictures". "Oh, I remember that!" He had a neat little story for almost every picture we looked at. Later, like 15 years later, (with the Kisstory books) the secrets came out about ghost players and stuff, and it came out that the cover of Alive! was staged.... well Gene told me that 15 years ago. :)
- I met Paul - with my wife and daughter - at a painting exhibition. He got down on one knee and talked to my daughter - 7 or so at the time - and talked to her like she was the most important person on the planet. Asking her about her dress, and her earrings... she didn't know this guy from a row of assholes, but knew a) that her dad looked up to him, and b) "he sang Beth", and that was enough. And he did nothing to disavow that view. Gentleman across the board (though I agree he is more asshole pretending to be nice than the other way around).
- I got to sing with Gene on stage during his solo tour last year. (not JUST me, about 8 or 10 of us). Fun, unassuming, no rock star bullshit, and I stood about two feet from him as he played and sang I Love It Loud. At the end he turned to me, fist bumped and said "having fun?" with that big goofy smile, and he genuinely meant it. He was there to deliver fun, nothing more, nothing less. If I didn't have kids in college, I would ABSOLUTELY buy the vault, not for the music, but to meet him again and sit and talk with him. I do think he's a genuinely nice guy, a big kid, a big fan, that also likes seeming tough and so has his moments. I think he's also blunt, and that rubs people the wrong way sometimes.
By the way, the Dan Rather interview with Gene is a must-listen.
Good stuff Stadler.
They are also my most seen band but that's partially because , growing up ,KISS were one of the few bands who came out here to Australia regularly. I have seen them six, maybe seven, times which includes an intimate theater gig that had a more "diehard" setlist.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/kiss/2004/palais-theatre-melbourne-australia-3d405ef.html
KISS have an interesting relationship with Australia. They were big in the US mid-late 70's and did okay out here and then around 1979-1980 that turned on a dime and as they began to fade in the US "KISSteria" took off here in the Dynasty-Unmasked era - which is why to this day Australia is about the only place they tend to play Shandi.
And as such they toured here for the first time in 1980 and KISS was EVERYWHERE. And that's the era I grew up in - collecting KISS cards as a 6 or 7 year old and the only music I owned from the age of 8-10 yo was a single album - KISS Killers.
They then didn't tour out here again until 96-97 with the Convention (KIss My Ass) tour - the fact that they only did the conventions in the US and Australia says something I suppose. They retain a fanatical fanbase out here (esp in Melbourne) and have toured regularly ever since , as has Ace , Bruce Kulick and Peter Criss.
I have a question for you Stadler. Most gigs these days are in "over 18's"clubs but KISS still play arenas out here (as is Gene in August). I am thinking about taking my 10 year old son along. Based on what you've seen at his solo gig (great band!) would you see any issue with taking a young kid along? I expect I might be catching up with Gene too , so that'll be cool.
I have promised my son I will take him along if KISS (as expected) do a last tour out here in 2019 so hopefully that happens for his sake. That'll be almost 2 decades after I saw my Farewell Tour in my mid 20's :lol
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I can't stand anything about them.
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I can't stand anything about them.
Neither can I.
However, to Stadler - I enjoy reading your concert stories. I think it's awesome when someone feels that way about a band or a show, even if it's one that I don't care for, and in your posts I can relate to what I've felt about other bands, like DT.
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I liked KISS as a kid and still enjoy various songs by them (Detroit Rock City, God of Thunder, Creatures of the Night, War Machine), so they certainly don't suck, even though they (or mainly Gene, I guess) have taken the marketing and merchandising thing to ridiculous extremes. Seriously, air guitar strings? :lolpalm:
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I grew up with KISS and was a member of the KISS Army once, so NO. But I detest Gene as a person. Can't stand the guy!
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I get the sort of indifference; they're not for everyone, and I'm not ignorant to the marketing aspects of it (and it is a bummer for me, because part of their charm back in the late 70's and early 80's was the mystery). But I really don't get the outright hate for them, I really don't. Almost all the things that are common criticisms of other bands, they DON'T do, and yet... I have zero personal evidence - I mean ZERO - that says "Gene is an asshole", but the image persists, and I can't honestly say I see why.
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I just think that Gene is being a very thoroughly honest guy and has that sense of shrewdness when it comes to the business side of things. In which like it or not, in this music industry, you sort of need that ability to thrive in this industry, and that certain comments he states at times comes off as him being an asshole in people's eyes since he's focusing about the financial side of things above all else (which is not really as bad as a thing as one may think). I guess the same can be said about Lars Ulrich as well. I mean Gene made some rather blunt comments regarding stuff like the passing of Kurt Cobain that can rub people off the wrong way, but I don't see anything "immoral" or asshole-ish about the comments he made regarding those kinds of topics.
Like I said before, I may not like KISS as a band, but I sure do respect Gene and Paul's honesty when it comes to certain things. It sorta makes me wish more people have that sort of honesty (especially bands that reunite when it's really primarily about the money and nothing else like making exciting new music).
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The poll needs a 'swallow' option...
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Gene (and one of their key marketing guys - Brandvold) have been pretty upfront about the fact that offending as many as possible without crossing "the line" is a key marketing tactic of theirs. My belief is that Gene executes this as business strategy but is quite different in private.
I really doubt that Gene ever thought he could seriously trademark "the horns" but it sure kept him in the news for a while.
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This comes up in the P/R threads as well, though: why does being "honest"* make you an "asshole"? And conversely, why do we feel authorized to call someone an "asshole" because we disagree with them? As much as I love Kiss, I disagree with Gene (and ESPECIALLY Paul) on a lot of things, but at the end of the day, I sort of come back to... these guys are (well, Gene moreso than Paul) the epitome of the "The American Dream".
* One think I do reject as well, is this notion that "sharing your opinion" is "honesty". Eddie Trunk says this all the time; just because you hold an opinion and share it doesn't make you "honest". It makes you "outspoken". "Honesty" is "speaking truth"; "opinions" aren't "truth".
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If some asshole dies and I tell his widow he was an asshole at his funeral, I'm being honest but I'm also being an asshole myself
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Well there's no question they have Always known how to make publicity and promote themselves. They've Always known how to make money.
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If some asshole dies and I tell his widow he was an asshole at his funeral, I'm being honest but I'm also being an asshole myself
Well, that's my point; you're NOT being "honest"; there is no "truth" there, you're just speaking your blunt opinion. Saying it's "honest" is implying that your opinion is somehow gospel truth.
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If some asshole dies and I tell his widow he was an asshole at his funeral, I'm being honest but I'm also being an asshole myself
Well, that's my point; you're NOT being "honest"; there is no "truth" there, you're just speaking your blunt opinion. Saying it's "honest" is implying that your opinion is somehow gospel truth.
I take it as him being honest with himself. Also send me an album. :biggrin:
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If some asshole dies and I tell his widow he was an asshole at his funeral, I'm being honest but I'm also being an asshole myself
Well, that's my point; you're NOT being "honest"; there is no "truth" there, you're just speaking your blunt opinion. Saying it's "honest" is implying that your opinion is somehow gospel truth.
When I hear someone talk about being honest in the context of an opinion, I think of political correctness. The way things are these days with everyone itching to be outraged by something many people will sanitise their opinions to the point of not giving their real "honest" opinion when asked - someone who doesn't have their PC filter on all the time (says what they think) could legitimately be thought of as giving their "honest opinion" in that context.
I don't see it as claiming "gospel truth."
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Yup.
You have the right to be honest, and I have the right to think you're an asshole. :)
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If some asshole dies and I tell his widow he was an asshole at his funeral, I'm being honest but I'm also being an asshole myself
Well, that's my point; you're NOT being "honest"; there is no "truth" there, you're just speaking your blunt opinion. Saying it's "honest" is implying that your opinion is somehow gospel truth.
Not quite. Honest can simply mean being sincere or without deceit. Absolute truth is not required.
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This comes up in the P/R threads as well, though: why does being "honest"* make you an "asshole"? And conversely, why do we feel authorized to call someone an "asshole" because we disagree with them? As much as I love Kiss, I disagree with Gene (and ESPECIALLY Paul) on a lot of things, but at the end of the day, I sort of come back to... these guys are (well, Gene moreso than Paul) the epitome of the "The American Dream".
* One think I do reject as well, is this notion that "sharing your opinion" is "honesty". Eddie Trunk says this all the time; just because you hold an opinion and share it doesn't make you "honest". It makes you "outspoken". "Honesty" is "speaking truth"; "opinions" aren't "truth".
You have to admit, he fully embraces the asshole image. He went so far as to name an album that. I get the impression that he enjoys it.
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I have no idea if this is true or not, but damn, I sure hope it is. It'd be the first redeeming thing I've read about Gene, perhaps ever.
Gene was set to plug the book with FoxNews.com's entertainment division, when according to an unnamed Fox staffer, he barged into a production meeting, pulled open his red velvet shirt and yelled "Hey chicks, sue me!" — before "telling Michael Jackson pedophilia jokes, and then bopped two employees on the head with his book, making derisive comments about their comparative intelligence according to the sound their heads made when struck."
:rollin
That's a level of irreverence that really makes me happy, but doesn't show up very often. And certainly not what I'd expect from Gene. We're talking about a Graham Chapan level of irreverence here.
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:lol