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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stadler on February 22, 2018, 06:03:32 AM
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If this belongs in the P/R section, please feel free to move, but...
The thought struck me in the "humor" thread... are we hurting ourselves with the current trend of filming and observing EVERYTHING?
I'm doing my ancestral tree right now, and I'm sort of stuck at the "late 1800's/early 1900's" timeframe, in all four (counting my grandparents) limbs of the tree. That's primarily because that's when my families transitioned to the States. There is literally nothing other than church records that my ancestors even existed (as such, I've come to the rationalization that there are no George Washington's or Napoleon Bonaparte's in my tree. No Adolph Hitler's or Josef Stalin's either, so that's good, I guess). But I watch my grandson - rather, his parents - and EVERYTHING is not only documented - we did that with still photos - but video'd and put on Snapgram and Facechat and Instabook. There is a record of just about everything, and I'm not sure that that is a good thing.
Why? Because we as human's are not equipped for that level of scrutiny. Think about it. EVERYTHING is subject to documentation, and we have to maintain that level of consciousness of our activities to sustain it. "Where were you Friday?" "Oh, I went out with some buddies for a beer." "Oh yeah? Who's the chippy with her titties hanging all over your arm?" A friend of mine found some photos of his wife en flagrante delicto, and some of the details of the photos didn't exactly match the story he was given during the courting phase. Is she lying? Hiding something? Or is this just a first-hand example of the extremely well-documented phenomenon that our memories suck - badly - at the details of our lives, in favor of the broad strokes of our experience and our learning.
Then what then about the selective presentation of our lives? We can arrange these photos and videos in a way that's unrealistic. That captures the side of us we want others to see and obscures the sides we don't... until of course they inevitably come forward (examples of this are both my friend's wife and, say, Harvey Weinstein and his ilk). THEN, of course, you factor in the written aspect of this scrutiny - the Twitter, the Facebook - and you have a model of us that psychologically I don't know is healthy or sustainable.
Could this be part of why we're seeing what seems to be (both anecdotally and statistically) the explosion of what some might call negative behaviors? Increased prescription drug use, increased anxiety and depression, increased aggression and violence, even increased partisanship (politically)? We have what I observe is this increasingly burning desire to be RIGHT, to be ACKNOWLEDGED, and I wonder if it isn't rooted in an increasing degree to which we are NOT right and NOT acknowledged in other parts of our lives where we were previously so.
Thoughts?
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I find myself getting lost in this thought all the time. I have to make this quick so this might not come out very coherent.
I too recently did Ancestry DNA. I've gotten as far back as 1815, and if I pay for the 6 month subscription, I'm almost certain I could get into the mid 1700s no problem (my family came over on the second or third voyage after the mayflower). I'll be honest, I wish there was more. It's crazy looking back 7 or 8 generations and seeing that my ancestors had careers like "rubber maker" and "meat". I have been able to see where some of them lived, where they worked, what branch of the military they served in, etc... I find it really interesting.
That being said, I do think there is a point where too much information is too much. The day will come when services will compile a person's entire online presence/life into a single, easy to interpret resource. That really sucks. My descendants will be able to look me up and see what a drunken asshole I was throughout college. They'll see the balcony incident and probably the immature knee jerk comments I threw at people who were tearing into me. They'll find pictures of me passed out with swastikas drawn on my forehead. They'll see that online I was rather vicious and unforgiving at times. They'll be able to see every hobby I've ever participated in. They'll see the questions I asked on a sex advice forum when I was 16. They'll probably find how I spent months researching how to grow pot and then was stupid enough to document my first grow and post it online. They'll see how much I drank underage and would sneak illegal fireworks across state lines for the entirety of my adult life. I think there's a 50:50 chance of being interpreted as a good person. But still, it's better than a lot of people, I think. At least my great grand children's great grand children won't see me as some slut who gave it all away in exchange for likes and heart emojis.
Where I think this is going to have the biggest impact is politics. I'd honestly really like to get into local politics, but my online history would put an end to that real quick. We're going to get to a point where someone will be able to call out another candidate in a debate and say something like, 19 years ago on March 19 at 11:53 PM, you liked an image of ________________". How can we believe what you've just said when there's evidence that you think otherwise?
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I think George Carlin addressed this point best:
everywhere you go now, there's some dick, some yo-yo, some putz, with a camcorder. and he is going to tape everything. doesn't anyone in this country just stop and look at things anymore? sort of take them in, maybe even remember them? Is that such a strange notion? does experience have to be documented, and brought home, and saved on the shelf? and do people really watch this shit? are people's lives so bankrupt, they sit at home looking at things they already did? and these guys are so intense you know. it's always guys, they won't let women touch the cameras. it's a highly technical skill. look for a hole. push on a button. big skill. and they all think they're federico fillini. low-angles, zooms and pans, and it's the same ugly three children in every god-damn shot. all the george lucas magic in hollywood is not going to change the unfortunate genetic configuration on the faces of these children. keep these unfortunate youngsters out of public view.
Maybe I'm just old, but I don't take many pictures or film much (except when I'm somewhere where getting awesome pictures is part of the draw, and I'm taking composed shots), and I sure as hell don't plaster it all over the place. I value my privacy quite highly.
I'm doing my ancestral tree right now, and I'm sort of stuck at the "late 1800's/early 1900's" timeframe, in all four (counting my grandparents) limbs of the tree. That's primarily because that's when my families transitioned to the States. There is literally nothing other than church records that my ancestors even existed (as such, I've come to the rationalization that there are no George Washington's or Napoleon Bonaparte's in my tree. No Adolph Hitler's or Josef Stalin's either, so that's good, I guess).
Fun fact, all "white" people have a common ancestor just 600 years back, and all people have a common ancestor about 1000 years back...so you are descended from Charlamagne, and we are ALL descended from Genghis Khan.
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we are ALL descended from Genghis Khan.
No we aren't.
https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wo7EtYPwZpg
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we are ALL descended from Genghis Khan.
No we aren't.
https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wo7EtYPwZpg
I'll dig out the reference later, but a 2016/2017 "big data" analysis shows that everyone alive today is descended from common ancestors at about 1000 years back.
[end derail]
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we are ALL descended from Genghis Khan.
No we aren't.
https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.Wo7EtYPwZpg
I'll dig out the reference later, but a 2016/2017 "big data" analysis shows that everyone alive today is descended from common ancestors at about 1000 years back.
[end derail]
That makes no sense though. I'm sure in small pockets of the world, most likely Europe and China, that's true. But I highly doubt that people in the remote corners of South America and especially Africa have genomes that share the same 1000 year back ancestor as someone in The Ireland/Italy/Turkey region of the world.
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With a young son, I'm glad my wife takes a zillion pictures and videos of him. My childhood is just a few pictures here and there separated by years. All the small things have disappeared from my family's collective memory, and we only have these brief snapshots. As for the oversharing aspect of a little boy who has no say in the matter, whose whole life could be chronicled on the web, I am sensitive to that and we are selective in what we share. I recognize that he may not like the fact that some of his life was shared online, but if it's any consolation he won't be alone among his peers.
On the other hand, there is a bit of anxiety (maybe too strong a word) since I feel a compulsion to record and archive that my parents did not, since it is so easy for us.
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With a young son, I'm glad my wife takes a zillion pictures and videos of him. My childhood is just a few pictures here and there separated by years. All the small things have disappeared from my family's collective memory, and we only have these brief snapshots. As for the oversharing aspect of a little boy who has no say in the matter, whose whole life could be chronicled on the web, I am sensitive to that and we are selective in what we share. I recognize that he may not like the fact that some of his life was shared online, but if it's any consolation he won't be alone among his peers.
On the other hand, there is a bit of anxiety (maybe too strong a word) since I feel a compulsion to record and archive that my parents did not, since it is so easy for us.
This is a good point. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to capture moments. I think the reasons behind wanting to capture them are what's important. I used to work with a girl that got pregnant in her early twenties. Her daughter is now 7 years old. I shit you not, from the day her daughter was born, she's posted between 4 and 12 pictures of her to her instagram account. You could pick any day and time over the last 7 years and I could tell you what her daughter was wearing and where she was within 4 hours of accuracy. That to me is lunacy.
My mother on the other hand, can't get enough pictures, and she's gotten more adamant about taking them as she gets older. She's seen her parents' and my father's parents' minds deteriorate into mush. I think we wants the memories somewhere other than her brain just in case. She's gotten savy with it too. She has four digital picture frames throughout the house, and she's put together several dozen USB flash drive 'galleries'. She has flash drives for Christmases, summer vacations, general house and yard photos, birthdays, fall, etc... The time of year dictates what's cycling on the picture frames. It's kind of cool.
Wanting to document your life and your surroundings for the memories and for family is something I'm all for. Documenting everything for the sake of sharing and getting feedback can become an unhealthy obsession. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with sharing moments on social media, but when we get disqualified from bar trivia because someone in the group can't stop snapchatting for 30 minutes, I have nothing nice to say.
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I swear I was just thinking about this yesterday.
Dig this. Back in 92 or whatever, Pre-mass internet adoption, things had to be presented in person. So say for instance you took a picture of your frozen eggo waffles you had for breakfast, got the pics developed and brought them to work or a party and tried to present them, Nobody would give two flying fucks and negative feedback would stop you from doing it.
Online though is a totally different dynamic. All of a sudden those frozen eggo waffles are getting upvoted and are now trending. WTF? People get tons of likes for mundane and irrelevant things. Narcissism is part of the human condition, some more than others. But shit like facebook I feel feeds into this vicious cycle, because people get a dopamine hit everytime there's a like and now we are craving validation and want the next "hit" in this validation addction. Its this leads into the need to be constantly acknowledged. Which creates spoiled children/people imo and this could be a dangerous road.
Where this will ultimately lead, I don't know, But time will tell. All I know is that I found myself going down that path with facebook, despite growing up in the 80's where none of this existed. I was able to recognize it though and got rid of all social media and for me personally, it was liberating. I feel so much more chill, not giving a shit about getting validation. I live my own like I am going my own way, and that has brought me peace. But I was able to do that only because I remembered what it used to be like. For a kid today growing up immersed in it, are they capable of that level self reflection. If you grow up in plato's cave, the shadows will forever be real. But anyway, we'll see where this goes.
Stadler, you my friend have been starting some very decent and thought provoking threads. And I think these are important issues to have a discourse on. Society at large is changing, and I think Its good to reflect on those changes.
And for anyone interested, I suggest checking lectures, discussion and videos by Jordan Peterson. This dude is fascinating and explores all this.
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Anybody here watch Black Mirror on NetFlix?
The first episode of season 3, Nosedive, deals with a lot of these themes.
Found this description on the webs:
"A roster of top-tier talent joins Brooker for this immaculate satire on the culture of likes and faves: leading lady Bryce Dallas Howard as a upwardly mobile type aggravated over a ubiquitous rating system that’s sabotaged her social life; director Joe Wright renders an antiseptic future dystopia in warm pastels and orderly shot compositions; and Mike Schur and Rashida Jones share credit on the hilarious, moving, supremely unsettling script. Seldom is the guiding theme of Black Mirror — the insidious ways in which technology alters human behavior — expressed with more lucid clarity. If any episode will make you chuck your iPhone into the nearest body of water, it’ll be this one."
Each episode is a standalone story, so you could just watch this one without having to go through the whole series.
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Anybody here watch Black Mirror on NetFlix?
The first episode of season 3, Nosedive, deals with a lot of these themes.
Found this description on the webs:
"A roster of top-tier talent joins Brooker for this immaculate satire on the culture of likes and faves: leading lady Bryce Dallas Howard as a upwardly mobile type aggravated over a ubiquitous rating system that’s sabotaged her social life; director Joe Wright renders an antiseptic future dystopia in warm pastels and orderly shot compositions; and Mike Schur and Rashida Jones share credit on the hilarious, moving, supremely unsettling script. Seldom is the guiding theme of Black Mirror — the insidious ways in which technology alters human behavior — expressed with more lucid clarity. If any episode will make you chuck your iPhone into the nearest body of water, it’ll be this one."
Each episode is a standalone story, so you could just watch this one without having to go through the whole series.
Love that episode. It was terrifying and excellent. Such a great show.
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While I certainly get and agree with Stadler's concerns, at least what y'all are talking about is voluntary. I've always been far more concerned with the involuntary recording of our lives. Setting aside the governmental filming of all things, which is far more frightening to me, how long until Facebook's facial recognition algorithms start flagging us in the background of other people's selfies?
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While I certainly get and agree with Stadler's concerns, at least what y'all are talking about is voluntary. I've always been far more concerned with the involuntary recording of our lives. Setting aside the governmental filming of all things, which is far more frightening to me, how long until Facebook's facial recognition algorithms start flagging us in the background of other people's selfies?
It does that all ready. When you go to "tag" someone it pulls their name up before you type so yeah, it's already happening.
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While I certainly get and agree with Stadler's concerns, at least what y'all are talking about is voluntary. I've always been far more concerned with the involuntary recording of our lives. Setting aside the governmental filming of all things, which is far more frightening to me, how long until Facebook's facial recognition algorithms start flagging us in the background of other people's selfies?
It does that all ready. When you go to "tag" someone it pulls their name up before you type so yeah, it's already happening.
I was about to post that very thing.
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I was thinking of when it would happen automatically. "Good news! You were recently sighted at The Men's Club appearing in Dakota and Montana's selfie. Would you like to friend them now?"
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While I certainly get and agree with Stadler's concerns, at least what y'all are talking about is voluntary. I've always been far more concerned with the involuntary recording of our lives. Setting aside the governmental filming of all things, which is far more frightening to me, how long until Facebook's facial recognition algorithms start flagging us in the background of other people's selfies?
I agree; but I think the line is blurring. I think it will ultimately be much harder to draw the line at involuntary disclosure when so much is being voluntarily disclosed.
This is more to Phoenix's post (thanks for the kind words, by the way) but I think it's not JUST the filming, but the declaration. My mom and dad have boxes and boxes of slides from their trips across the U.S. from before I was born. Epic pictures of the Black Hills, etc. NO one has seen them except for them and a handful of close relatives. It's their memory, recorded for posterity. That's not the same as proactively and in real time sharing your experience with anyone who happens to click (whether you want to see them or not). I think there's a difference.
And I'm glad someone else said it, because I feel like I'm that old man on the porch every time I say it, but I think the narcissistic tendencies (I don't know that thats what it is, but lack of a better word...) are really going to be problematic. I personally think there is a connection between the increasing rates of opioid addiction, depression and even violence. I think it's every bit as strong as the peer pressure that we used to see when kids felt they had to have the latest sneakers or whatever. or had to hang with the popular group in high school. But now it's magnified beyond a scope we can imagine. When I was in school, I had to worry about the 10 or so friends I had, and the 280 kids in my class, and the 1200 kids in my school. It was dumb luck if any other school knew who I was. Now? We have REACH. There's actually a website - you can't google it - that catalogues all the nudes of high school girls in our state. (I know this because my daughter was being bullied and her social media accounts were hacked; we reported it to the police - that was me being stubborn when the Principal dared me to report it - and the cop gave her a web address and said "I don't want to know, but if you did have any pictures on there that you don't want your parents to see, go here and make sure that someone else didn't upload them. And if they did we can go after the people that hacked your account.")
I'm not convinced that the adolescent brain is equipped to handle this level of complexity.
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There is a record of just about everything, and I'm not sure that that is a good thing.
Why? Because we as human's are not equipped for that level of scrutiny.
As phrased, I don't agree with this and, even if it were true, so what? Dealing with new issues is how we evolve. Keep in mind, by the way, that I'm not suggesting that I think the constant deluge of "Stadler had a cheeseburger" and "pg1067's kid is now 136 weeks old" posts on social media is a good thing. I don't, but for different reasons. I'm a very nostalgic person, and I have found myself wishing on numerous occasions that my mother had better "documented" my youth.
As for the rest of it, I don't have any problem with increased risk resulting from stupid behavior curbing the stupid behavior.
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Well, I'm thankful for amateur porn.
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Wrong thread?
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While I certainly get and agree with Stadler's concerns, at least what y'all are talking about is voluntary. I've always been far more concerned with the involuntary recording of our lives. Setting aside the governmental filming of all things, which is far more frightening to me, how long until Facebook's facial recognition algorithms start flagging us in the background of other people's selfies?
This.
Were it not for my massive fuck up and am now in the DWI database, unless you're on DTF and look for my picture, there are no pictures of me online. I'm on zero social media, no tagging, no instagram pics, zero. So yes, it's almost entirely voluntary and it's almost entirely warranted by their desire to be the center of attention and finally prove to themselves what they've always been thinking: That they're special, and deserved to be recognized; that among the seven billion, they're in the limelight of life and are without a doubt an individual. It's pretty fucking gross. The allusions to the already mentioned Black Mirror episode, Nosedive are so fucking real that just the thought of it is anxiety inducing.
I'll never be on social media again, ever. I got out early (relatively, and at least during the initial boom of Facebook) and ever since I've watched people quite literally just scroll through pictures of people they hate, exes they pine for or pictures of themselves to mentally masturbate to and it's all such a massive load of bullshit. There's some people that use it strictly for connection with people who they would otherwise not have a connection to, and that's great, but that is so few and far between that the microcosm of Facebook so heavily dwarfs the minuscule amounts that use it as such that it's not even a statistic.
Otherwise it's what Stad said. Pictures upon pictures upon videos upon videos of people who are trying so desperately to cling to some kind of microsecond of fame that they end up changing themselves or simply feigning a social persona so religiously that once the solitude arrives and there isn't anyone else around, the person left isn't anything like the ones documented. The really sad thing is that other than a few either accidental moments or outliers of the majority, people don't "document everything", they document everything that they think is worth documenting, which ends up being a portrait of deluded, skewed perfection that is so unrealistic and manipulated that it might as well be a fantasy. Which is what perpetuates the whole culture. Go online and look at how perfect your life is, at how many friends you have and how much they like you. Then turn it off and see what kind of reality you live in...or just keep on liking. (Seriously, Nosedive is already here, it's just that the tech isn't just yet...but soon)
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Well, I'm thankful for amateur porn.
Likewise. I hate it when a porn star signs with an agent and forgoes their amateur status.
On topic, now that we have kids, Mrs. Cool Chris and I take a ton of pictures, sorta for us and for them to see when they grow up, and for the grandparents. Sometimes it seems we can't go anywhere more glamorous than Fred Meyer without her wanting to take a picture of us there. It annoys me, but I get her intentions. She asks my permission every time she wants to post a picture including me on facebook, and I usually reluctantly say yes. I don't have an account, so I can't be facially tagged (getting back to the porn them...).
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Social media has played a major part of the obsession. Also, the upgrade of cellphones into little handheld computers also is major. You've got kids whom have access to anything they can imagine, in the palms of their hands.
In school, you've got the old peer pressure bullying scrap. Now it has escalated big time. Kids now have to worry about missing out on a Facebook event, the Snapchat their peers sent, what someone said about them on Facebook or posted. Its too much for their little brains which also worry about the bombardment of homework and tests. Also, doesn't help schools utilize Social Media and texts more. Its crazy how much schools have changed.
You've got kids filming a teachers rant that suddenly gets them fired, when no one else knows the context of that rant. Could've been a reenactment, the student was acting up and the teacher had enough and just went all out. Thats what I dont like. Yet, you got the one student who understands the context and won't tell anyone, it wasn't the teachers fault, for fear of being called a loser, Hell probably worse words, plastered all over their social media pages, even getting threats. Thats one reason why I feel kids don't say anything anymore. Its a habit that needs to be addressed in schools, I feel. That will help the bullying.
Doesnt help either that grown adults still do exactly the same thing. Like the recent lady that caused a scene on a plane because she didn't want to be seated next to a baby. Some chick recorded it, posted it and it went viral. That lady then lost her job. The chick then had to go on camera saying shes sorry and didn't mean for that lady to lose her job...For me, if she had any sense she wouldn't have posted that in the first place.
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Wasn’t lettuces what you were growing? :omg:
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Wrong thread?
It could work in the other thread. :lol
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Wasn’t lettuces what you were growing? :omg:
In one of my basement's rooms :hat
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Stads, if for some reason there's ever something that totally destroys and shuts down all social media, while I will be pretty horrified at that, a small part of me will smile knowing that you'd be in a state of bliss.
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There is a record of just about everything, and I'm not sure that that is a good thing.
Why? Because we as human's are not equipped for that level of scrutiny.
As phrased, I don't agree with this and, even if it were true, so what? Dealing with new issues is how we evolve. Keep in mind, by the way, that I'm not suggesting that I think the constant deluge of "Stadler had a cheeseburger" and "pg1067's kid is now 136 weeks old" posts on social media is a good thing. I don't, but for different reasons. I'm a very nostalgic person, and I have found myself wishing on numerous occasions that my mother had better "documented" my youth.
As for the rest of it, I don't have any problem with increased risk resulting from stupid behavior curbing the stupid behavior.
So you think that a teenage girl (or boy) that is already struggling with their burgeoning sexuality, puberty, peer pressure, substance abuse, and what not, is totally prepared to now deal with the world seeing their boobies or their penis? You think with the well-documented lack of ability to fully understand consequences that they now have the ability to comprehend that that "harmless" photo sent to that boy/girl they like can now, potentially, land them in jail (child porn), hinder their job search, or perhaps create issues later on with their partners?
EDIT: What our Uncle said.
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Stads, if for some reason there's ever something that totally destroys and shuts down all social media, while I will be pretty horrified at that, a small part of me will smile knowing that you'd be in a state of bliss.
Like I hit the lottery, Margot Robbie came over for casual sex, and Kiss was playing a full set in my backyard.
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As phrased, I don't agree with this and, even if it were true, so what? Dealing with new issues is how we evolve. Keep in mind, by the way, that I'm not suggesting that I think the constant deluge of "Stadler had a cheeseburger" and "pg1067's kid is now 136 weeks old" posts on social media is a good thing. I don't, but for different reasons. I'm a very nostalgic person, and I have found myself wishing on numerous occasions that my mother had better "documented" my youth.
Or it's how a species can be crippled. The white rhino has been dealing with the issue of hunters for decades now. How's that going for it?
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Stads, if for some reason there's ever something that totally destroys and shuts down all social media, while I will be pretty horrified at that, a small part of me will smile knowing that you'd be in a state of bliss.
You can count me in on that bliss as well.
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So you think that a teenage girl (or boy) that is already struggling with their burgeoning sexuality, puberty, peer pressure, substance abuse, and what not, is totally prepared to now deal with the world seeing their boobies or their penis? You think with the well-documented lack of ability to fully understand consequences that they now have the ability to comprehend that that "harmless" photo sent to that boy/girl they like can now, potentially, land them in jail (child porn), hinder their job search, or perhaps create issues later on with their partners?
I don't know if any particular hypothetical person is or isn't prepared to deal with the consequences of a stupid decision. However, I stand by my disagreement with your statement that "we as human's [sic] are not equipped for [the] level of scrutiny" that comes with the phenomenon being discussed. Just like anything else, we need to educate kids about risks that exist in the world and the consequences of bad decisions, but then each person gets to decide for him/herself what to do. Some will make good decisions, and some won't.
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Some will make good decisions, and some won't.
And those that don't will claim they are victims and that it wasn't there choices that got them where they are.
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Wasn’t lettuces what you were growing? :omg:
In one of my basement's rooms :hat
:metal
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I personally love getting pictures and moreso video of things that I feel like I would want to remember one day. I'm glad I was able to get some cool photos and videos from my college years before cell phone cameras were a thing. I wish I had more footage of my time as a child honestly. I hated when when my parents brought out their camera as a kid, but looking back, I wish they had done it more. Watching family videos is often hilarious and fun. Now granted, those aren't public. But I don't really feel the need to make everything public. I have a ridiculous amount of media on my hard drive at home that I have no desire to make public (and it's not sex videos, it's just stuff that I don't think anyone would find interesting besides myself essentially). I don't really see any issue with documenting my life this way. I certainly don't think my life is special or worthy of documenting, but I kind of enjoy it for myself and for my own memories since the human memory isn't permanent. If my grandchild one days see the video of me throwing bottles off my balcony which lead to a disorderly conduct charge from the cops, so be it. It happened. I made a mistake and paid the price for it. The video is hilarious, but the laugh came at a large cost to me so I can always teach that lesson I guess.
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For anybody interested, here's Cram's bottle throwing incident
https://youtu.be/xh3NxGToGa4
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:getoffmylawn:
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Interesting topic and thread. I won't mention how many times the image of Clint Eastwood growling about kids on his lawn popped into my head while reading it. :D
I don't have any objection to people documenting their lives on film. To me it is not much different than keeping a journal of sorts. How I wish I had more photos of when I was younger with my pals or with my family. Cell phones have made this so much easier.
But what I absolutely hate is the selfie phenomenon. I know many young adults who seemingly cannot go through life without snapping dozens of selfies daily. Now don't get me wrong, I think it is great when people are confident and feel good about themselves. But this obsession to constantly indulge our need to look at ourselves in various states throughout the day is annoying AF. It is no different than needing to check our reflection in the mirror constantly. I believe the psych term for this is narcissism. It has gotten completely out of hand.
I wish these kids would get off my lawn.
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Interesting topic and thread. I won't mention how many times the image of Clint Eastwood growling about kids on his lawn popped into my head while reading it. :D
I don't have any objection to people documenting their lives on film. To me it is not much different than keeping a journal of sorts. How I wish I had more photos of when I was younger with my pals or with my family. Cell phones have made this so much easier.
But what I absolutely hate is the selfie phenomenon. I know many young adults who seemingly cannot go through life without snapping dozens of selfies daily. Now don't get me wrong, I think it is great when people are confident and feel good about themselves. But this obsession to constantly indulge our need to look at ourselves in various states throughout the day is annoying AF. It is no different than needing to check our reflection in the mirror constantly. I believe the psych term for this is narcissism. It has gotten completely out of hand.
I wish these kids would get off my lawn.
^ I agree with this. The filming itself isn't an issue, it's only an issue if you obsess over it. "Everything in moderation" as they say.
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I have an issue with the selfie obsession as well. I've taken selfies before, usually when I am traveling solo, but other times as jokes for friends. But I would say I average one a week maybe and usually don't share them on social media (sent to my gf, or group chat). I see people on social media who post at least one a day for everyone to see. I have a friend who shares maybe 5 day in our group chat. I think it's absolutely ridiculous. There are studies about this and the results aren't very positive. https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/taking-many-selfies-genuine-mental-958073 (https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/taking-many-selfies-genuine-mental-958073)
Research colleague Dr Janarthanan Balakrishnan said: “Typically, those with the condition suffer from a lack of self-confidence and are seeking to ‘fit in’ with those around them, and may display symptoms similar to other potentially addictive behaviours.
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I have an issue with the selfie obsession as well. I've taken selfies before, usually when I am traveling solo, but other times as jokes for friends. But I would say I average one a week maybe and usually don't share them on social media (sent to my gf, or group chat). I see people on social media who post at least one a day for everyone to see. I have a friend who shares maybe 5 day in our group chat. I think it's absolutely ridiculous. There are studies about this and the results aren't very positive. https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/taking-many-selfies-genuine-mental-958073 (https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/taking-many-selfies-genuine-mental-958073)
Research colleague Dr Janarthanan Balakrishnan said: “Typically, those with the condition suffer from a lack of self-confidence and are seeking to ‘fit in’ with those around them, and may display symptoms similar to other potentially addictive behaviours.
I'll never understand it. This is the feed of a girl I used to work with. She takes two types of pictures. Every one gets 40-60 likes. When I worked with her, she'd talk about how she'd sometimes spend upward of a half hour trying to get the perfect pic.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/5696/NbRgXB.png)
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I get it, I'm a fossil... but that's a beautiful girl, by any standard. So why the calculated, mannequin-like head-tilt and duck lips? Just take the fookin' picture. (And don't get me started about the obligatory "camera in the photo" issue; it's simple geometry folks. Next time a student says "what do I need to know acute angles for?" I'm going to say "for camera-free selfies! Duh!").
In all seriousness, though, it's not the actual acts; if someone wants to take selfies, have at it. It's the mindset WITH it though. It's like Harmony says: its the obsessive nature of it, and what follows from that: I don't have issue with Chino's friend taking pictures of herself (as I noted, she's beautiful, so the more the merrier), it's the obsessive nature of WHY, as if that picture - and the likes that come with it - are important to her esteem. THAT'S where this goes south.
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What I hate even more are selfie sticks. So there's this selfie mania, I get it. But at least you have to do the job, turn the damn camera or cellphone on himself. The selfie stick even defeats that purpouse, it's like "I want to take a picture of myself, but it's too difficult in specific situations to do it so I need a mechanical help".
Also, it's actually hideous to see people walking around with those.
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I'll never understand it. This is the feed of a girl I used to work with. She takes two types of pictures.
You mean the same two types of pictures every woman takes of themselves?
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What I hate even more are selfie sticks. So there's this selfie mania, I get it. But at least you have to do the job, turn the damn camera or cellphone on himself. The selfie stick even defeats that purpouse, it's like "I want to take a picture of myself, but it's too difficult in specific situations to do it so I need a mechanical help".
Also, it's actually hideous to see people walking around with those.
The bold is why I never use one, it's simply just annoying to use and carry. But I won't totlaly hate on them, because for some people, or groups of people, it makes sense to use. Here's my same selfie friend making fun of these girls in Vegas for using a seflie stick. His arms are just long so he doesn't need one compared to shorter people :lol
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/12068397_10109511804329764_6716885780912522211_o.jpg?oh=5b57ea465186897a36065cf72b9832dc&oe=5B1ED924)
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Five girls, presumably on vacation, and four of them have their faces buried in their phones. People rule!
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Five girls, presumably on vacation, and four of them have their faces buried in their phones. People rule!
I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. I know it's easy to do (with it being the topic of the thread & all), but there are plenty of otther possible explanations for context in that picture. Here's a few I came up with:
>They've been in that area for a long period of time & are waiting for something else
>They're looking up directions because they don't know the area very well
>They've lost someone in their group & are trying to get in contact with them to find them
>They're meeting with someone else later & are trying to organise where they'll be
>Similar to above, but maybe they're waiting for the person they're meeting with to show up
>They have their travel guides on their phones
>They aren't actually on vacation & this is just where they live
With these possibilities in mind, doesn't it seem a little over-conclusive imo to just say "this is why this is a problem with society" knowing no context to the original situation (especially when that conclusion just-so-happens to support your original viewpoint on technology & its negative effect on society)?
(Edited because my original post came off unnecessarily harsh, which wasn't my intention)
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Eh, I don't think any of this is as huge a deal as some people thing.
It's not too terribly different from the anti-video game movement, the anti-television movement, the anti-music stuff, etc etc.
Every generation decides that the next generation is on the path to assured self-destruction and dumbing down the culture to irreversible degrees, yet we're doing just fine.
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Eh, I don't think any of this is as huge a deal as some people thing.
It's not too terribly different from the anti-video game movement, the anti-television movement, the anti-music stuff, etc etc.
Every generation decides that the next generation is on the path to assured self-destruction and dumbing down the culture to irreversible degrees, yet we're doing just fine.
One, my comment was more a joke than some deep assessment and judgement of the girls... having said that, I think this is more than that, though Adami. Did television or Black Sabbath change our brain wiring? Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I'd rather think that we're on to something here and the naysayers from the past are about to be vindicated than just more of my "get off my lawn-ism".
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Oh that was just a general reply. Not about the girls.
I stand by my comment knowing full well you and most others will instinctually disagree.
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Here are my two cents for the conversation:
10+ years ago, I was someone who loved taking pictures of things I did and places I visited, but NEVER took a picture of myself. The only pictures you will find of me are group gatherings or a picture someone else took while i wasnt looking. I loved to take picture of a nice sunset, a special tree, a cool view or field, a nice waterfall, etc. but hated taking pictures of myself. And back then, I would share some those pictures I was taking because i felt not everyone got to experience i what I did.
I deleted all my social media about 5-6 years ago because I got tired of knowing what everyone was having for breakfast, and what outfit they had for that day. Social media was created as a mean to communicate with those you normally wouldn’t otherwise, to make it easy to keep in contact with others. But it has turned into a “look at me, like me, tell me how awesome I am”. It’s making people lose important social skills. I’m seeing this new generation growing up, and some of the kids that are recent high school or college graduate and a good chunk of them lack basic social skills needed to be successful. They grew up attached to a game or cellphone and now lack certain qualities they need in “the real world”. And I think this phenomenon is just going to get worse because this is just the beginning.
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I do occasionally contemplate how many complete strangers' photos I have unknowingly appeared in, even as a little dot in the distance.
Eh, I don't think any of this is as huge a deal as some people thing.
It's not too terribly different from the anti-video game movement, the anti-television movement, the anti-music stuff, etc etc.
Every generation decides that the next generation is on the path to assured self-destruction and dumbing down the culture to irreversible degrees, yet we're doing just fine.
I do agree with this though. And this generation will no doubt come to think that our sons and our grandsons are on the path to destruction etc. etc. The cycle will continue on and on.
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It's more than "just" pictures, though. That's a huge part of it, but not all of it. It's the consequences of that as well. Studies have shown that the swiping of phones gives a dopamine rush. This is far more complicated than just "a rush of pleasure". They're finding now that "dopamine" is more about "searching" than "pleasure" (that's more an opioid rush). There are other factors in a dopamine rush - unpredictability, anticipation - that aren't present in some of the other, older stimuli. I think there is some science that suggests this ISN'T a "get off my lawn" moment here. This is new, this is important, and this is PHYSICALLY affecting the brains of our kids in ways that the stuff that came before isn't.
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It's more than "just" pictures, though. That's a huge part of it, but not all of it. It's the consequences of that as well. Studies have shown that the swiping of phones gives a dopamine rush. This is far more complicated than just "a rush of pleasure". They're finding now that "dopamine" is more about "searching" than "pleasure" (that's more an opioid rush). There are other factors in a dopamine rush - unpredictability, anticipation - that aren't present in some of the other, older stimuli. I think there is some science that suggests this ISN'T a "get off my lawn" moment here. This is new, this is important, and this is PHYSICALLY affecting the brains of our kids in ways that the stuff that came before isn't.
Lots of stuff physically affects our brains.. Hell, working out gives us a dopamine rush. You're picking one of MANY things that give us a dopamine rush, declaring it bad, while ignoring the countless other things.
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About this technology out of control or being such an integrant part of our lives... sometimes I feel I was born at the exact, proper time to witness it all, and that I was in the middle of the two worlds, the "ancient" one and the "modern" one.
I was born in 1979 and I was a teenager in the '90's. I've used pen and paper at school, I've discovered music with second and third hand cassette tapes, I've called from home phones and public phones during holidays, and then I was still young enough when the internet, CDs and PCs and of course cellphones were really starting to become common. I absolutely know what it was like before, and I was witnessing first hand the new technologies as they were growing. This maybe puts me in the ideal position to understand both worlds, people younger than me are born with a smartphone in their hands and don't know what it's like to live without it... I do. And this helps me put all this use/abuse of technology into contest, I know there was a world before this so I can see the social media for what they are, something more, something additional, a game almost... not an "essential" thing or something you can't go without.
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I think this is an interesting topic. I guess I fall somewhere in between. For adults, we can choose not to film our lives. We can choose to film it but not share it with the world. Those that constantly do aren't really doing any harm though, aside from perhaps annoying their friends on social media. I might think excessive sharing of personal photos is a bit silly, but I don't think it constitutes a crisis.
On the other hand, when it comes to kids, I'm closer to Stadler's line of thinking. If kids are being pressured to take and share compromising photos of themselves, that's a problem. I don't know what the answer is. It's probably not just one thing. Maybe there needs to be some education - start somewhat young, and teach them that it's not OK to pressure someone into doing anything of a sexual nature, and anyone who pressures you is not your friend. Maybe don't let your kids have smart phones - give them a phone without a camera so they can call and text you, and not much else.
We're not likely to turn back the clock on technology, and I don't really think we should, so maybe we need to try something else.
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Pretty sure parents have been trying, with varying degrees of success, to teach their kids to not do stupid shit since we lived in caves.
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(https://imgur.com/RYEUmvU.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/vWPz4cL.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/wwfZNYi.jpg)
Sorry. I have nothing really to contribute, but nowhere else to post these, either.
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:lol
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The Harry Potter one is legendary.
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It looks like the answer to my rhetorical question was 1 week.
Hi, ******. We're always working to make Facebook better, so we're adding more ways to use face recognition apart from just suggesting tags. For example, face recognition technology can do things such as:
• Find photos you're in but haven't been tagged in
• Help protect you against strangers who use your photo
• Tell people with visual impairments who's in your photo or video
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I got the same notice on Facebook a few days ago. I think I just told it "No" for every option, though I don't remember thinking a lot about it.
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I have my FB settings set to prohibit tagging or even posting to my timeline without my agreement.
Maybe they've changed that. I guess I need to go check. That shit is annoying.
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I didn't get that notice. ;D
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I didn't get that notice. ;D
Yes you did. This is your Facebook. :lol
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The most ridiculous thing, but this is taking it a little bit off topic, even though it's a similar theme, is people in restaurants being more interested in their phones than in their table partners. And I see this so often, the couple that's out for a meal with each other, but they're on their phones constantly; the colleagues who are out for a meal together, but rather checking e-mails or news-feeds or whatever. And most ridiculous of them all; looking grumpy all the time while looking at the phone, only to fake a smile to take a selfie to show the rest of the world what a good time you're having. Oh, and don't get me started in people taking pictures of their dinner, especially in a restaurant. For fuck's sake, just enjoy your company and leave the outside world be the outside world for a while.
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(https://maximumble.thebookofbiff.com/comics/2016-03-24-1298.png)
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The most ridiculous thing, but this is taking it a little bit off topic, even though it's a similar theme, is people in restaurants being more interested in their phones than in their table partners. And I see this so often, the couple that's out for a meal with each other, but they're on their phones constantly
I'm just going to play devil's advocate here because this thought crossed my mind when my girlfriend and I went to Pies and Pints last Saturday night.
We spent the whole day together. We woke up, made breakfast, took the dog to the dog park, went to Kohls and Costco, did a little yard work, and later in the evening went to dinner at Pies and Pints. We were out and about together, basically all day, not using our phones for anything other than a shopping list. When we went out to dinner, it was the first time that day either of us had just kicked back. We ordered our beers and food, and while we were waiting for the food, our phones came out. I had some Clash of Clans commitments to fulfil, wanted to check Reddit, and I had to scramble to contact some members in one of my RC clubs to alert them of a cancellation. The girlfriend was rating and reviewing the microbrew she ordered (some app) and responding to an email from her sister she ignored earlier because her and I were out and about. We both sat comfortably in our silence until the food came out.
I'm sure to others nearby, they were thinking to themselves exactly what you posted. I was thinking they were thinking it as we were doing it. But the truth was, we had just spent 12 hours together and talked plenty. We both have lives outside of the two of us, and we took the 15 minutes while waiting for our food to address those things and people.
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I'm not big into pulling out the phone at a restaurant, but I've been with my girl long enough now that if something important is happening or like Chino's story where we've been tied together all day, I have no issue with either of us using our phone. But when I was single and dating, a girl pulling out her phone on a date would really turn me off.
As for taking pictures of your meal, I'm also guilty of that. If I get a cool looking meal, or when I'm traveling and talking to my gf (if I eat at a restaurant solo during my travels I am likely going to be on my phone most of the time) I'll snap a pic.
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I'm not a huge one for pictures, really, but sometimes I will snap something and send it to my daughter who's away at school. Either to tease her or let her in on something new. It's not often, but occasionally.
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I am in good-nature going to pick on Chino for a second here.... Mrs. Cool Chris would tan my hide if I did any of what you and Chino-ette did at dinner. She is fairly old-school, but in your described situation, I would agree with her. Everything you and she did was of little importance (my judgment) and if we are doing something together, all could have waited.
But as Stadler would remind me, I will tend my own garden and not assume what works best for my relationship would work best for anyone else's. If you two can enjoy each other throughout the day in such a manner as you described, I saw you are in a good place.
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I am in good-nature going to pick on Chino for a second here.... Mrs. Cool Chris would tan my hide if I did any of what you and Chino-ette did at dinner. She is fairly old-school, but in your described situation, I would agree with her. Everything you and she did was of little importance (my judgment) and if we are doing something together, all could have waited.
I hear you, but my point was we had been doing stuff together for the 12 hours leading up to that dinner. We didn't go to dinner to 'have a night out together'. We had a long day, were too lazy to cook, and we figured beer and pizza would hit the spot. Neither of us looked at it as a date, or even a night out for that matter. We were starving and being lazy. Had we not seen each other all day and then did that when we went out to eat, it'd be a different story.
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Yes I understood where you are coming from and support that. If more couples spent the quality time you and she do we'd all be better off.
My point was that if you are sitting at a table together, you are, by my definition, doing something together. That isn't to say you could do your phone stuff together. "Hey, I am going to rate this beer 4 our of 5 stars, what do you think of it?"
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I don't generally take pictures of my food, mostly because they never look as good as the meal itself, but I definitely understand why people do it. If it's someplace new, or definitely if you're traveling, it makes sense as an aid to remember the details. Roaming around Europe was the only time in my life I've kept a journal, and having some pictures embedded in it would have been nice.
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I'm going to Ireland in October (first time leaving the country), and while I almost never take pictures of my food, I'm definitely going to take a pic of what I am anticipating to be the best corned beef I've ever eaten.
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I'm going to Ireland in October (first time leaving the country), and while I almost never take pictures of my food, I'm definitely going to take a pic of what I am anticipating to be the best corned beef I've ever eaten.
Well, that has a sense. I am totally NOT a food photo guy, but I will very occasionally take a picture of a yummy cake or a giantass hamburger. There are people who photograph even the most mundane and ordinary meal, what's the point in that?
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I'm going to Ireland in October (first time leaving the country), and while I almost never take pictures of my food, I'm definitely going to take a pic of what I am anticipating to be the best corned beef I've ever eaten.
I'm anxious to hear about your trip. In 2019, I want to take my two daughters to Ireland, and we've been watching those Groupon trips...
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Of the 16 or so countries I've been to, Ireland is damn near my favorite. I just loved it.
Of course I loved the south east of it, and not places like Dublin as much.
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GALWAY!
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GALWAY!
I said south!
Killarney, Dingle, etc.
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GALWAY!
I said south!
Killarney, Dingle, etc.
Galway is south...... of heaven, that is!
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GALWAY!
I said south!
Killarney, Dingle, etc.
Galway is south...... of heaven, that is!
I disagree.
Heaven's a Lie.
- Lacuna Coil
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And most ridiculous of them all; looking grumpy all the time while looking at the phone, only to fake a smile to take a selfie to show the rest of the world what a good time you're having.
Implying that hasn't been a thing since cameras were invented? Seriously, "smile for the camera" has been a phrase that's existed long before the advent of phones. I have depression & as a kid I was constantly told "look, I know you're sad, but could you at least try to smile for this one picture?". It's hardly a new phenomenon.
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The difference is that 10 years ago, that forced smile was for your Aunt Edna when she was taking a picture of you for her photo album to show the ladies at the senior center. Now it is for your own selfie you are going to post on your own FaceTwittGram to build up your "like" count.
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The difference is that 10 years ago, that forced smile was for your Aunt Edna when she was taking a picture of you for her photo album to show the ladies at the senior center. Now it is for your own selfie you are going to post on your own FaceTwittGram to build up your "like" count.
Does it matter though? You're still doing it so you look better in the eyes of others. At the end of the day, the idea is still the same.
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Cheese!
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The difference is that 10 years ago, that forced smile was for your Aunt Edna when she was taking a picture of you for her photo album to show the ladies at the senior center. Now it is for your own selfie you are going to post on your own FaceTwittGram to build up your "like" count.
Does it matter though? You're still doing it so you look better in the eyes of others. At the end of the day, the idea is still the same.
I don't know if it matters, but it is different. Pre-Selfie/internet days, we didn't care about the opinions of strangers like we do now.
I don't want to beat the horse to the ground. If people like taking and posting selfies, have at it.
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We've ALWAYS cared about the opinions of others. That's what the fashion industry is built on.
It's just expressed differently and might be more heightened right now, but it's no where near new.
I'll admit that the impact of being approved is not very healthy. However, I believe it's something that, over time, people will adapt to this new paradigm and level out. Might be a few years/decades/whatever, but it'll most likely happen.
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I didn't say others, I said strangers. And your point is valid but I stand by mine. 10 years ago, "strangers" were a handful of people you bumped in to at the grocery store or talked to while you waited at school to pick up your kid, not a billion random people on the internet like it is now.
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Well, you're name's not Stadler, so I can't disagree with you.
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We've ALWAYS cared about the opinions of others. That's what the fashion industry is built on.
:lol
https://i.imgur.com/Rlk8Rns.gifv
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We've ALWAYS cared about the opinions of others. That's what the fashion industry is built on.
It's just expressed differently and might be more heightened right now, but it's no where near new.
I was talking about this with my therapist yesterday; I think it's always been there, but it's never been so pervasive and immediate. Back in high school, if a girl didn't wear the right designer jeans, the rest of the school had to notice when they saw her, AND know what the right pair were. I would image most of the people that didn't know her wouldn't even notice. Now it's put out there FOR the approval. When my daughter first went on Snapgram or Instachat whatever, she had (if you believe their profiles) 20-somethings from Colorado commenting on her selfies. When my other daughter entered a fashion show contest in New York (she's a hair stylist) one of the steps was "most Instagram likes", and you had bitter 45 year old queens from god knows where commenting like "Honey, you need to go back to school" and "You call that a style? Bitch please." That's more than just "an opinion".
I'll admit that the impact of being approved is not very healthy. However, I believe it's something that, over time, people will adapt to this new paradigm and level out. Might be a few years/decades/whatever, but it'll most likely happen.
But what about in the meantime? If that's really the problem, a) are we willing to let a certain sector of the population fall through the cracks as we adjust (we weren't for the drug problem), and b) why are we willing then to entertain so many other "solutions" that don't solve the problem (and don't even mitigate the symptoms as we address a))?
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https://nypost.com/2018/03/03/my-quest-for-instagram-stardom-left-me-in-financial-ruin/ (https://nypost.com/2018/03/03/my-quest-for-instagram-stardom-left-me-in-financial-ruin/)
:facepalm:
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I understand the whole trying to gain a following and the appeal of feeling famous but...what makes those people think that they can structure their financial life around it? Like...you can't make money doing that...I just don't understand...
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I feel like that article is also a good example of how it's all fake. A facade to decieve people into believing that you're something you're not. Whether you use it to try and build some sort of hollow "career" as an "influencer", or just to post a new profile pic of the happiest looking couple on the planet, it's all just fake representation of reality. Unfortunately, people also convince THEMSELVES that it's reality as well. NO, your family pic of everyone at the beach in khakis and white dress shirts with the sleeves rolled up is not an accurate depiction of your family life... or any of the other millions of people that post the same fucking pic to their instafeed.
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I understand the whole trying to gain a following and the appeal of feeling famous but...what makes those people think that they can structure their financial life around it? Like...you can't make money doing that...I just don't understand...
Well, you can - if you gain a certain following, brands start to ask you to post stuff about them, and they'll send you gifts or pay for a trip or whatever. She should have tried to go gradually there, not spend everything... there are people who want to be in a band and they leave their day jobs only when the band makes it big, if she wanted to try to be an Instagram influencer, she should have done it as a "side gig" while having a job and go fully for it only when the big money could come in.
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I feel like that article is also a good example of how it's all fake. A facade to decieve people into believing that you're something you're not. Whether you use it to try and build some sort of hollow "career" as an "influencer", or just to post a new profile pic of the happiest looking couple on the planet, it's all just fake representation of reality. Unfortunately, people also convince THEMSELVES that it's reality as well. NO, your family pic of everyone at the beach in khakis and white dress shirts with the sleeves rolled up is not an accurate depiction of your family life... or any of the other millions of people that post the same fucking pic to their instafeed.
And it's fake on several different levels. One, it's just a facade of reality, but on another level, it's, I think, stark evidence of the lack of ability to be introspective and honest with oneself. And on a third level, it's a false representation of what it means to be "famous". Name one person from the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's that are famous simply because. There's a body of work with 99% of the "famous" people from those decades. Movies. Books. Political achievement. Even the 80's and 90's. it might be shit music, but 50 years from now, we'll be able to listen to Paula Abdul's music, and we wouldn't know her but for her initial efforts to PRODUCE something. I'd even give the nod to supermodels, because at least they have a portfolio that was constructed around something other than being famous.
I would argue that previously, we "made" something from which we became famous, and we've now cut out the middleman and are simply "making" fame.
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At least that Instagram gal figured it out and pulled herself out of it by hunkering down and paying off her debts on her own instead of crying about it on social media, starting a GoFundMe page and begging her followers to help her out. A lot of people would have done just that.
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At least that Instagram gal figured it out and pulled herself out of it by hunkering down and paying off her debts on her own instead of crying about it on social media, starting a GoFundMe page and begging her followers to help her out. A lot of people would have done just that.
True. Her story had a happy ending.
I feel like that article is also a good example of how it's all fake. A facade to decieve people into believing that you're something you're not.
While that article is one example of someone trying to gain a following. I think social media has lead to lots of normal people doing similar with a facade. I know for me, I have little to no interest in posting something that's negative. It's just not how I want to represent myself, but the reality is that there are down times. Times I'm sad or things are going great. I chose not to post about that because I don't want to attention and I don't want to air my dirty laundry. However, that leaves a social media that looks like maybe my life is great. That's not my intention to create a facade, but it kind of does on a smaller scale. No one should look at someones social media and think that's an accurate representation of someone's life but people do get that impression sometimes.
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That's a good point, and one I hadn't thought of. When the historians look back at the historical record, what will they "believe" after viewing the entirety of online social records (check out TRAVELERS on Netflix)? But in that case, it's more inadvertant. When people ACTIVELY present a false narrative, they start to believe that narrative. I don't for one second believe that any of these people post any of these INTENTIONALLY INACCURATE things without believing that there's some truth to it.
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It probably balances out over a large enough sample. I know some people who are pretty much the opposite. If they had a good day, or just a normal day, that's not really worthy of comment. But if they got a flat tire, or were late to something, or their refrigerator died, they'll post about it.
So there are people who post mostly positive stuff, mostly negative stuff, or any combination. There are also some people who seem to post about every little thing that happens, but I still wouldn't ever presume that anyone's social media wall is a "complete" record of everything.
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What gets me a bit is people posting/sharing posts that have obvious spelling or grammar errors. Example "The Faker you are the bigger your circle will be' The Realer you are the smaller your circle will be..." I'm like, so who are The Faker and The Realer?...I see too many posts like that and wonder, why share something like that.
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Going back to Stadlers original premise, I actually think that the opposite will occur over time. We already live in a throw away society and that includes information. People live in a series of interconnected moments, and while they are constantly recording those moments they quickly move on and what's in the past is soon forgotten.
Over time, there will be too much information to keep it for very long, and it will need to be constantly deleted and lost forever. Unlike searching church records , or ships manifests when researching our ancestors, our descendants will not be able to find any information on us, because there will be too much. Too many cat, joke, music, political and epic fail videos and picture's to catalog and sort; and the fabric of our lives will lack any substance; and as I said, there will be too much to keep it all in the first place.
All too often now our validation as humans is predicated on this addictive delusion that we have to constantly participate in the same glut of nonsense and useless information as everyone else.
Can you see someone looking at your Facebook posts 75 years from now? "Wow, my great, great grandpa was an interesting guy. On this day, he posted a bunch of really deep philosophical posts on religion and the origin of the universe, and then this cartoon about farting."
Nah, maybe I blazed a J, and got real deep, and then I farted.
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No kidding. My wife says "Hey so-and-so posted a cool picture, it's on my facebook feed (or whatever it's called), check it out!"
So I scroll through miles and miles of bullshit, then ask "When was this posted?" Wife says "Couple days ago." Then I just give up because I know it will take hours to find.
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I think I agree with the premise that there will be too much data to sort through, but I don't think that data is going anywhere or will be deleted. I say this because storage and big data is HUGE in the IT world. Storage price per terabyte is going down and systems are being designed to hold onto this data and large amounts of it. There may be better ways to parse the facebook data as well in the future. Like in Chris' example, one could just search the persons name and not all fo facebook to help find the data they want. But maybe in the future, the search is more granular and you can really easily find the meaningful posts, or only posts with videos on this date. Whatever it may be, I just don't think it's going anywhere.
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Anthropologist circa 2088: "Why are all those women taking pictures of their phone in the mirror? They must really like their phones."
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Anthropologist circa 2088: "Why are all those women taking pictures of their phone in the mirror? They must really like their phones."
"And why they do it with a duck face?"
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Anthropologist circa 2088: "Why are all those women taking pictures of their phone in the mirror? They must really like their phones."
"And why they do it with a duck face?"
Nah...by 2088 all babies will be whisked at birth to surgery to give them all duck faces, permanently. Society will be like this...
https://archive.org/details/TwilightzoneEyeofthebeholder
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(https://i.redditmedia.com/PsYQs4f6sLX1Rst-G-UAZ2qsqfidVD1ArNMpwIODQcA.png?w=760&s=fddcfd984238929c2b0ef8a7be3a2505)
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^^^^ that'd be funny if it weren't so true and sad.
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^ Very true!
On a serious note, I need to show that to my wife. She's got this habit of going on social media and seeing those (often fake) momentary highlights of people's lives and comparing that to her life. Especially people with their kids. She'll have a rough day with our toddler and then see someone's perfectly staged capture of a great moment with their kid and start to feel like she's not doing a good job.
She fully knows and understands these snapshots are not people's true lives, but it still effects her.
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She'll have a rough day with our toddler and then see someone's perfectly staged capture of a great moment with their kid and start to feel like she's not doing a good job.
She fully knows and understands these snapshots are not people's true lives, but it still effects her.
It's amazing how it still affects 'us' when everyone knows it's not 'real life'. It's all staged....."best of" moments that rarely have a genuine sentiment involved. Yet, you can find yourself comparing your life to the filtered...unnatural moments that are posted for all to see.
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It's amazing how it still affects 'us' when everyone knows it's not 'real life'. It's all staged....."best of" moments that rarely have a genuine sentiment involved. Yet, you can find yourself comparing your life to the filtered...unnatural moments that are posted for all to see.
Yup, no doubt.
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Where do you guys draw the line between recording being bad because you should be living in the moment and recording being good to help remember the moment or create something interesting? There's a line somewhere, but at the moment I can't really place it.
For example, while maybe I'll record like a 10 second clip of my friend's favorite song to send them via snapchat at a concert with my phone held close to my chest, I'm not really a fan of recording shows. It doesn't take away my experience really, but in the end I find that I never go back and watch the videos. And even if I wanted to, I'm sure I could find a way better recording of the same show on youtube.
But on the other hand, I make vlogs of every convention I go to, so I'm recording the antics my friends and I get into all the time because I enjoy sharing the moments with an audience, but I also enjoy video/vlog making as a hobby and such.
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Where do you guys draw the line between recording being bad because you should be living in the moment and recording being good to help remember the moment or create something interesting? There's a line somewhere, but at the moment I can't really place it.
For example, while maybe I'll record like a 10 second clip of my friend's favorite song to send them via snapchat at a concert with my phone held close to my chest, I'm not really a fan of recording shows. It doesn't take away my experience really, but in the end I find that I never go back and watch the videos. And even if I wanted to, I'm sure I could find a way better recording of the same show on youtube.
But on the other hand, I make vlogs of every convention I go to, so I'm recording the antics my friends and I get into all the time because I enjoy sharing the moments with an audience, but I also enjoy video/vlog making as a hobby and such.
I draw the line with @Lizess on Instagram. She's the sister of someone I grew up with. She's a professional social media whore whose entire life seems to revolve around the positive reinforcement provided by others. Follow her for just a few days and you'll see exactly what I mean.
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Where do you guys draw the line between recording being bad because you should be living in the moment and recording being good to help remember the moment or create something interesting? There's a line somewhere, but at the moment I can't really place it.
For example, while maybe I'll record like a 10 second clip of my friend's favorite song to send them via snapchat at a concert with my phone held close to my chest, I'm not really a fan of recording shows. It doesn't take away my experience really, but in the end I find that I never go back and watch the videos. And even if I wanted to, I'm sure I could find a way better recording of the same show on youtube.
But on the other hand, I make vlogs of every convention I go to, so I'm recording the antics my friends and I get into all the time because I enjoy sharing the moments with an audience, but I also enjoy video/vlog making as a hobby and such.
I draw the line with @Lizess on Instagram. She's the sister of someone I grew up with. She's a professional social media whore whose entire life seems to revolve around the positive reinforcement provided by others. Follow her for just a few days and you'll see exactly what I mean.
I think Chino is dancing around the line just right: the difference is when it moves from a quick snap to document your experience, and the "snap" is an almost immeasurable portion of the experience, to when the snap IS the experience, and the documentation IS the experience. No offense, Implode, and it may be harmless/with good intent, but I think you captured both sides of the line in your post. "10 second snippet to give flavor"? Cool. "The vlog is the intent of the experience"? Maybe not.
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And holy shit, what is it, Steam? The video game streaming site... Is this real life? People actually sit around and watch other people play video games! I remember sitting around with more friends than controllers, and inevitably it turns into, "Stop hogging the sticks ass hole, it's my turn!" And now people voluntarily tune in to watch OTHER people play video games... What a world we live in!
Whoever brought up comparing these things people do and applying it to pre-interwebz days fucking nailed it. I just couldn't imagine sitting around looking at someone's family photo album, yet people stand in line at fucking Disney World and just "like" one photo after another as they slowly shuffle forward.
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comic of Lonely cat lady needing attention and validation
That right there is the god damn truth.
Nothing happens on the couch. There's an entire world out there of adventure and new experience just waiting to be had. And I was like that too at one point, posting stuff and just sitting there waiting for a like. At the end of the day, it was getting in the way of me living my life.
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No offense, Implode, and it may be harmless/with good intent, but I think you captured both sides of the line in your post. "10 second snippet to give flavor"? Cool. "The vlog is the intent of the experience"? Maybe not.
That's understandable. No offense taken at all. I know people place that line in completely different places, which is why I thought it'd be interesting to ask. For me, the vlogging does nothing to hinder my experiences, and it actually enhances those experiences or provides more longevity for them. My friends and I will commonly go back and watch what we documented of the various events through the years, and we love seeing/reliving those memories.
Of course at the same time, it's not like I'm recording the entire weekend. At the end of one event, I might end up having 90 minutes of raw footage over the course of 3-4 days at most to cut and sift through for the 10-20 minute vlog. Percentage-wise, that might fall under what you called an "almost immeasurable portion of the experience".
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And holy shit, what is it, Steam? The video game streaming site... Is this real life? People actually sit around and watch other people play video games! I remember sitting around with more friends than controllers, and inevitably it turns into, "Stop hogging the sticks ass hole, it's my turn!" And now people voluntarily tune in to watch OTHER people play video games... What a world we live in!
I remember going outside with friends and playing basketball with more people than there were positions, and it inevitably turns into "stop being court hog and let me play for a bit"! And now people voluntarily tune in to watch OTHER people play basketball. What a world we live in!
I watch for several reasons;
1) I'm a cheap asshole and want to watch some real time gameplay with commentary to see what the game's like before buying it.
2) The person I'm watching is a Youtuber I genuinely enjoy watching and subscribe to, and they're doing a live stream that just so happens to feature them playing a video game at the same time.
3) Sometimes it's just cool to watch people with a skill set far beyond yours compete against one another (pro sports).
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I actually just remembered something else.
Remember back in the late 80s and 90s when recording home videos really took off? Parents, or at least those I knew, seemed obsessed with recording every single moment of their children's lives: eating, walking, talking, going to Disney, sports games, etc. I'm talking hours and hours and hours of footage likely to never been seen again.
Do you think that this is less of a generational/technology driven thing, and more of a general human fascination? Like the technology is what enables us to indulge in this strange want to immortalize and capture moments of our lives. It's not just today's youth, I'd say.
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And holy shit, what is it, Steam? The video game streaming site... Is this real life? People actually sit around and watch other people play video games! I remember sitting around with more friends than controllers, and inevitably it turns into, "Stop hogging the sticks ass hole, it's my turn!" And now people voluntarily tune in to watch OTHER people play video games... What a world we live in!
I remember going outside with friends and playing basketball with more people than there were positions, and it inevitably turns into "stop being court hog and let me play for a bit"! And now people voluntarily tune in to watch OTHER people play basketball. What a world we live in!
I watch for several reasons;
1) I'm a cheap asshole and want to watch some real time gameplay with commentary to see what the game's like before buying it.
2) The person I'm watching is a Youtuber I genuinely enjoy watching and subscribe to, and they're doing a live stream that just so happens to feature them playing a video game at the same time.
3) Sometimes it's just cool to watch people with a skill set far beyond yours compete against one another (pro sports).
Also chiming in here. The main appeals to watching YouTubers or streamers playing video games are what Chino said. With items 2 and 3, it's not even the game itself that's the main focus. It's no different than watching some talk show or something on TV with personalities you really enjoy hearing/watching. That's like telling most of America, "Hey, why do you even bother watching other people play football? Just go out and play yourselves!" Which ties into the competitive side. I also love watching people who are immensely skilled in their craft: sports, music, video games, whatever they might be, but if it's also something I work really hard to be good at, it's inspiring to see how other people are doing or how they are competing with you or other people. It's fun.
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I actually just remembered something else.
Remember back in the late 80s and 90s when recording home videos really took off? Parents, or at least those I knew, seemed obsessed with recording every single moment of their children's lives: eating, walking, talking, going to Disney, sports games, etc. I'm talking hours and hours and hours of footage likely to never been seen again.
Do you think that this is less of a generational/technology driven thing, and more of a general human fascination? Like the technology is what enables us to indulge in this strange want to immortalize and capture moments of our lives. It's not just today's youth, I'd say.
Absolutely. Regardless of culture, we see degrees of this all throughout history. Would a wealthy person commissioning a portrait be a whole lot different than someone taking a selfie today? How about someone commissioning a granite statue of themselves? Cave people used to trace their hands on walls and parents hundreds of years ago were documenting the height of their children on the walls of their homes. Egyptian rulers had immense structures erected for them, adorned with thousands of images depicting their lives and accomplishments. What was once reserved for the wealthy is now easily accomplished by anyone with a smartphone.
It seems like humans have some kind of desire to preserve their existence. Sure, the narcissism we see today can't really be compared to anything, but the desire to be remembered and immortalized as long as possible has been evident throughout time.
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comic of Lonely cat lady needing attention and validation
That right there is the god damn truth.
Nothing happens on the couch. There's an entire world out there of adventure and new experience just waiting to be had. And I was like that too at one point, posting stuff and just sitting there waiting for a like. At the end of the day, it was getting in the way of me living my life.
Well, that not ENTIRELY true, especially back in high school when there was nowhere else to go....
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Steam is the game selling platform, Twitch is the viewing site
just clarifying that :)
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And holy shit, what is it, Steam? The video game streaming site... Is this real life? People actually sit around and watch other people play video games! I remember sitting around with more friends than controllers, and inevitably it turns into, "Stop hogging the sticks ass hole, it's my turn!" And now people voluntarily tune in to watch OTHER people play video games... What a world we live in!
I remember going outside with friends and playing basketball with more people than there were positions, and it inevitably turns into "stop being court hog and let me play for a bit"! And now people voluntarily tune in to watch OTHER people play basketball. What a world we live in!
I watch for several reasons;
1) I'm a cheap asshole and want to watch some real time gameplay with commentary to see what the game's like before buying it.
2) The person I'm watching is a Youtuber I genuinely enjoy watching and subscribe to, and they're doing a live stream that just so happens to feature them playing a video game at the same time.
3) Sometimes it's just cool to watch people with a skill set far beyond yours compete against one another (pro sports).
Also chiming in here. The main appeals to watching YouTubers or streamers playing video games are what Chino said. With items 2 and 3, it's not even the game itself that's the main focus. It's no different than watching some talk show or something on TV with personalities you really enjoy hearing/watching. That's like telling most of America, "Hey, why do you even bother watching other people play football? Just go out and play yourselves!" Which ties into the competitive side. I also love watching people who are immensely skilled in their craft: sports, music, video games, whatever they might be, but if it's also something I work really hard to be good at, it's inspiring to see how other people are doing or how they are competing with you or other people. It's fun.
I guess I'm just not gonna get it then (I get the reviews thing, I endlessly research shit before I buy it). I could even appreciate if either of you just said, "I fucking enjoy it, so sod off!" But to try and compare being good at a video game, ANY video game, with the time and effort that professional athletes put in to achieve that level in any sport, not even just the big ones, it feels disingenuous. I've gotten my ass handed to me in many a video game, and I'm also confident that I'm one of the best players in the world at one specific game. I also played baseball at a high level for 13 years, and can shoot under par on the golf course. I can't even fathom considering the former anywhere near the latter.
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No one dosputed the fact that it takes more effort to be a professional athlete than a gamer (though that's also debatable), it's more about the fact that watching others can be just as entertaining, of not more, than performing said act yourself.
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I was going to post Chino's points #1 and #2 but won't say it any better than he did.
I'll side with Sylvan on #3 but that's my opinion. I watch James Rolfe and Mike and Ryan play games and they will be the first to admit they aren't highly skilled gamers. Part of the enjoyment for me is watching a game kick their ass.
Getting way off topic here... but one thing I will never get is watching speedrunners. It's cool that people can master a game in that fashion, but watching someone do it holds no interest for me at all.
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No one dosputed the fact that it takes more effort to be a professional athlete than a gamer (though that's also debatable), it's more about the fact that watching others can be just as entertaining, of not more, than performing said act yourself.
That's totally true, and I guess that's the part I'm just not gonna get. The entertainment value isn't there for me, but I can see that it is for others. But, again, that's not something I disputed, or questioned, or whatever. And guess you're also right that nobody disputed the skill level. Although, it was implied that a certain amount of skill was achieved equal to those of professional athletes and musicians and such.
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...it takes more effort to be a professional athlete than a gamer (though that's also debatable)
If you wanna start a separate thread, I would LOVE to hear your thoughts. :biggrin:
Edit: Wait, I forgot that professional gaming leagues are actually a thing now. I suppose that opens up the argument to what effort it takes to make it as a PROFESSIONAL gamer, which is not a can of worms I wanna open up. It doesn't change anything in the end, but the road there is way bumpier.
Edit 2: I feel like I've taken this off topic. Somebody post a link to something and reel this back in...
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And holy shit, what is it, Steam? The video game streaming site... Is this real life? People actually sit around and watch other people play video games! I remember sitting around with more friends than controllers, and inevitably it turns into, "Stop hogging the sticks ass hole, it's my turn!" And now people voluntarily tune in to watch OTHER people play video games... What a world we live in!
I remember going outside with friends and playing basketball with more people than there were positions, and it inevitably turns into "stop being court hog and let me play for a bit"! And now people voluntarily tune in to watch OTHER people play basketball. What a world we live in!
I watch for several reasons;
1) I'm a cheap asshole and want to watch some real time gameplay with commentary to see what the game's like before buying it.
2) The person I'm watching is a Youtuber I genuinely enjoy watching and subscribe to, and they're doing a live stream that just so happens to feature them playing a video game at the same time.
3) Sometimes it's just cool to watch people with a skill set far beyond yours compete against one another (pro sports).
Also chiming in here. The main appeals to watching YouTubers or streamers playing video games are what Chino said. With items 2 and 3, it's not even the game itself that's the main focus. It's no different than watching some talk show or something on TV with personalities you really enjoy hearing/watching. That's like telling most of America, "Hey, why do you even bother watching other people play football? Just go out and play yourselves!" Which ties into the competitive side. I also love watching people who are immensely skilled in their craft: sports, music, video games, whatever they might be, but if it's also something I work really hard to be good at, it's inspiring to see how other people are doing or how they are competing with you or other people. It's fun.
I guess I'm just not gonna get it then (I get the reviews thing, I endlessly research shit before I buy it). I could even appreciate if either of you just said, "I fucking enjoy it, so sod off!" But to try and compare being good at a video game, ANY video game, with the time and effort that professional athletes put in to achieve that level in any sport, not even just the big ones, it feels disingenuous. I've gotten my ass handed to me in many a video game, and I'm also confident that I'm one of the best players in the world at one specific game. I also played baseball at a high level for 13 years, and can shoot under par on the golf course. I can't even fathom considering the former anywhere near the latter.
Who cares though? There are $60M stadiums in Texas to accommodate the amount of people willing to sit down and watch a bunch of HIGH SCHOOL athletes play football. That to me is harder to understand than people wanting to watch other people play a video game. Someone doesn't have to be the best in the world at something to establish an interested audience. Do you get on people's case for watching Bob Ross rather than painting themselves? How about people who watch This Old House but live in an apartment they aren't allowed to modify? Can you believe that there are people that actually sit down and watch people race on a television when there are plenty of places that offer track days? I can't help but think of all the hours I've wasted watching people trying to cover Dream Theater songs when I could be butchering them myself.
My point wasn't to compare the overall skill and dedication required to be a gamer people watch vs. someone who plays for the Yankees. All I'm saying is that watching other people do stuff because they're better than you are can be entertaining.
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I guess I'm just not gonna get it then (I get the reviews thing, I endlessly research shit before I buy it). I could even appreciate if either of you just said, "I fucking enjoy it, so sod off!" But to try and compare being good at a video game, ANY video game, with the time and effort that professional athletes put in to achieve that level in any sport, not even just the big ones, it feels disingenuous. I've gotten my ass handed to me in many a video game, and I'm also confident that I'm one of the best players in the world at one specific game. I also played baseball at a high level for 13 years, and can shoot under par on the golf course. I can't even fathom considering the former anywhere near the latter.
This argument is a bit pointless because of things Cool Chris and Chino already said, but discrediting the hundreds or thousands of hours people put into something to attain a certain skill level at anything, even video games, seems a bit arbitrary just because we happen to worship traditional sports specifically--at least in the context of trying to understand why humans find interest in things.
I mean obviously, traditional sports have a much broader appeal to people in our culture. People are allowed to think streaming video games is boring, but on an objective level, it makes perfect sense to me that some people would find it fun to watch if that's what they are interested in. It's really no different.
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For me, the vlogging does nothing to hinder my experiences, and it actually enhances those experiences or provides more longevity for them. My friends and I will commonly go back and watch what we documented of the various events through the years, and we love seeing/reliving those memories.
And to reference back to when you said you don't record at concerts, but enjoy the vlogging. For me, I enjoy recording the concerts for the very same reason you enjoy the vlogging. It's just fun to do and doesn't hinder the concert experience at all for me. Plus, for me, I think most of my concert youtube views are actually from me. I love watching those many times just because I love watching concerts in general. Not that different than how you do it, but just our different tastes. For me, drawing the line is filming an entire concert or majority of it. I like to capture enough to feel like you got all the highlights, but not enough to take away from enjoying actually being there.
As for twitch and live steaming. I do that as well from time to time. I mostly enjoy doing editting to my video game videos vs live streaming, that's just my preference, but I understand the "why would you watch" argument because I love making video game videos, but I personally don't enjoy watching them other than just to get a review/feel for a game before you buy OR because I am stuck and want to see how to figure part of a game out. I've tried watching some of the top streamers and I find myself bored usually after 10 minutes. But that's just me, it's a really big market and it's growing. A lot of people really enjoy watching live streams of video games. To each their own.
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For what it's worth, and with deepest respect, "watching others' play video games" is not at all what I was going for with idea of "filming their lives". I use YouTube all the time for how-to videos on everything from changing the bearings on my truck, to making cheesecake. Watching people play video games is no different than that, or watching someone play guitar, at least to me.
I'm talking more about the socialization of an online presence, as if it is something of meaning and value, and not the "content" itself. They might overlap, but they aren't the same thing.
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I didn't think that was the point of the thread but kind of the way it started going in the current discussion. But it is interesting because it does tie into the "filming of our lives" I now have my webcam recording me when I play video games. That is a filming of my life that was never there before, and surprisingly, is something that someone else may want to watch. It's an interesting twist to the original intent of the thread.
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I didn't think that was the point of the thread but kind of the way it started going in the current discussion. But it is interesting because it does tie into the "filming of our lives" I now have my webcam recording me when I play video games. That is a filming of my life that was never there before, and surprisingly, is something that someone else may want to watch. It's an interesting twist to the original intent of the thread.
I think you just highlighted the difference between what you do and what @Lizess on Instagram does. You put what you do online because you are in a sense engaging with like minded people through a commonality you all enjoy (music, concerts, video games, etc..). You're contributing to a community and a micro culture. I do it with my hydroponic and RC stuff, though I don't do it live on a Webcam. @Lizess, isn't sharing anything out of common interest. She's not "contributing" anything to a micro culture or group of people. All she does is post pics of her dress like a whore, videos of her shit talking others and taking blunt rips, and constantly trying to raise her pedestal. Her account exists to remind those around her why she's better than them. She's whoring herself out for attention. You seem to be creating content for others to enjoy, not to create envy. They are two very different things as far as social media goes. One should be embraced and encouraged, the other should be shamed.
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For me, I enjoy recording the concerts for the very same reason you enjoy the vlogging. It's just fun to do and doesn't hinder the concert experience at all for me.
But what about the experience of other people that payed to perhaps watch the concert, and not document it? I say this with respect, cuz we're HERE, and that's what we do. But I wasn't so respectful of the guy at the Alter Bridge concert that busted out his phone to film some of the show and blocked my view of half the stage. I know, because I could see so clearly the timer on his phone camera, that I made it exactly 32 seconds before telling him not so kindly to get his camera out of my face.
Edit: but then again, I've watched some of those videos on YouTube (not a regular user). So what the fuck do I know? :mehlin
I'm talking more about the socialization of an online presence, as if it is something of meaning and value, and not the "content" itself. They might overlap, but they aren't the same thing.
If you don't record that Petrucci solo and post it for people to see, did it actually happen? If you don't record that no-scope headshot and post it for people to see, did it actually happen?
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I think you just highlighted the difference between what you do and what @Lizess on Instagram does. You put what you do online because you are in a sense engaging with like minded people through a commonality you all enjoy (music, concerts, video games, etc..). You're contributing to a community and a micro culture.
That's a good point that I need to remember when it comes to some of this stuff that just so happens to cross into my life somehow, and I'm just not sure where it came from. It doesn't account for turning on my TV and seeing E-League on ESPN :facepalm:, but whatevs.
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For me, I enjoy recording the concerts for the very same reason you enjoy the vlogging. It's just fun to do and doesn't hinder the concert experience at all for me.
But what about the experience of other people that payed to perhaps watch the concert, and not document it? I say this with respect, cuz we're HERE, and that's what we do. But I wasn't so respectful of the guy at the Alter Bridge concert that busted out his phone to film some of the show and blocked my view of half the stage. I know, because I could see so clearly the timer on his phone camera, that I made it exactly 32 seconds before telling him not so kindly to get his camera out of my face.
This is quite simple to avoid. Just don't be a dick and be aware of your surroundings. Trust me, I hate the guy holding the phone over their head just as much as you do.... so I don't do it. I usually hold it eye level with my screen brightness all the way down and flash off. I try to stand in an area where no one is behind me as well (in which case if I know that, then I'll raise my phone higher if that's the better view), but that's not always the case. I would hate to ruin someone elses experience so I am self aware of what I am doing when I am doing it. Most people aren't, but most people aren't filming as much as I do either, but there's always a few at every show that are being real assholes with their filming.
I didn't think that was the point of the thread but kind of the way it started going in the current discussion. But it is interesting because it does tie into the "filming of our lives" I now have my webcam recording me when I play video games. That is a filming of my life that was never there before, and surprisingly, is something that someone else may want to watch. It's an interesting twist to the original intent of the thread.
I think you just highlighted the difference between what you do and what @Lizess on Instagram does. You put what you do online because you are in a sense engaging with like minded people through a commonality you all enjoy (music, concerts, video games, etc..). You're contributing to a community and a micro culture. I do it with my hydroponic and RC stuff, though I don't do it live on a Webcam. @Lizess, isn't sharing anything out of common interest. She's not "contributing" anything to a micro culture or group of people. All she does is post pics of her dress like a whore, videos of her shit talking others and taking blunt rips, and constantly trying to raise her pedestal. Her account exists to remind those around her why she's better than them. She's whoring herself out for attention. You seem to be creating content for others to enjoy, not to create envy. They are two very different things as far as social media goes. One should be embraced and encouraged, the other should be shamed.
Honestly, I love when people interect with my youtube channel for music. I feel like it helps spread the word of good music that's out there that's not on the radio. I was telling King last weekend when we were having a beer that if I wanted to grow my channel, I could go to a Miley Cyris concert and do the same thing and get tons and tons of followers (I've noticed other metal concert youtubers with significant followings have done so). The music I (well, we all here) like isn't very popular, I love when people comment and say they were glad I shared the music. I don't make money, if anything the bands are allowed to claim copyright ownership and run ads along my video to make some money. So I love all of that, I want to support the music and I also genuinely enjoy doing it as well.
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Well then Cram, I appreciate your being conscious of that fact and acting accordingly :tup. Not like I'm the concert police or anything...
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Well then Cram, I appreciate your being conscious of that fact and acting accordingly :tup. Not like I'm the concert police or anything...
I have to admit. I've pissed people off before though. I recall some guy wanting to beat my up at a 311 concert this summer. I'm not quite sure how I was in his way all the way in the back of the venue with no one immediately around me, but he made sure to let me know he didn't like me and wanted me far away from him. Well, at least that's the way I interpreted his drunk mumbles.
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I'm talking more about the socialization of an online presence, as if it is something of meaning and value, and not the "content" itself. They might overlap, but they aren't the same thing.
If you don't record that Petrucci solo and post it for people to see, did it actually happen? If you don't record that no-scope headshot and post it for people to see, did it actually happen?
I had this conversation with the dad of one of my daughter's friends in Philly. I noted that Oasis came to a place about 1/4 mile from my house, and I missed it (I had literally just moved in like three days before). He whips out his phone and plays me a clip from the show, then looks at me and says... "it was way better being there". And it's almost always the case. I tell the story a lot about my experience at a Page and Plant show in New Jersey, and I can tell you right now that if someone comes to me with a complete boot on video of that show I probably won't watch it, because I WANT my memory. It hurts no one that I think it's the greatest moment I've ever experienced at a concert, and no one is served by me having to find a new one when the reality doesn't reflect the memory.
That's not at all the same as me sending videos of an "artificial" life that I supposedly lead, and influencing how others view their lives (often to their detriment).
This doesn't have to be completely logical or linear. We're talking about incremental change, and we're talking about cumulative change.
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Well of course the video is never as good as the memory or the feeling of actually being there. That can never be replicated and that's why it's worth being there in the first place.
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This is more of a contemporary "phone culture" frustration, but here we go.
I went on a date the other night. Just for dinner and she was 29. I'm 30. I swear to god, her phone was out and in front of her face 80% of the time. And the other 20% of the time it was sitting on the table. My phone stayed in my pocket the whole time. I honestly felt like I was eating dinner alone, since there was such a feeling of disconnect present.
I can't say what the ultimate negative consequences are going to be of the social media, smartphone obsessed culture that we live in today, but I personally don't want to be with someone who is constantly on their phone instead of spending actual time with the person they are with.
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This is more of a contemporary "phone culture" frustration, but here we go.
I went on a date the other night. Just for dinner and she was 29. I'm 30. I swear to god, her phone was out and in front of her face 80% of the time. And the other 20% of the time it was sitting on the table. My phone stayed in my pocket the whole time. I honestly felt like I was eating dinner alone, since there was such a feeling of disconnect present.
I can't say what the ultimate negative consequences are going to be of the social media, smartphone obsessed culture that we live in today, but I personally don't want to be with someone who is constantly on their phone instead of spending actual time with the person they are with.
Dude, that's embarrassing... for her. I would have said something for sure! I feel bad just checking a text so I don't leave a friend or family member hanging for no reason. If you can't "be there" on a first date, you've got real problems, and the phone thing is only a symptom.
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It's this "instant" <insert whatever> phenomenon our culture/society now needs - instant response, instant gratification, instant information etc... Go to a website and it doesn't load in 5 seconds, we're annoyed and go to an alternative site. Don't get a response right away from a text (dear god... especially if it's marked "read"), "zomg why are they pissed at me?!?". No offense Sylvan, but a sender of a text should be able to wait 30-60 minutes - unless it's urgent (in which case if it's TRULY urgent, they'll phone). I might glance at a message, but unless it's an emergency, I'll extend the courtesy of giving the person I'm physically with my attention - whether in a personal or professional context.
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This is more of a contemporary "phone culture" frustration, but here we go.
I went on a date the other night. Just for dinner and she was 29. I'm 30. I swear to god, her phone was out and in front of her face 80% of the time. And the other 20% of the time it was sitting on the table. My phone stayed in my pocket the whole time. I honestly felt like I was eating dinner alone, since there was such a feeling of disconnect present.
I can't say what the ultimate negative consequences are going to be of the social media, smartphone obsessed culture that we live in today, but I personally don't want to be with someone who is constantly on their phone instead of spending actual time with the person they are with.
Was this a first date? I mean regardless that's pretty bad, but really bad if it was a first date and someone was doing that. I find it very disrespectful. However, I've been with my girl long enough that if we spent all day together, we might use our phones a bit during dinner or something, but usually when we hang out for a few hours in the evening we just keep our phones close but aren't actively on them.
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Well, on that point, I would say that if the person I'm on a date with has a problem with me taking 15 seconds to send a text to someone so they're able to do whatever they need to do ("Chill?", "Sorry, I'm out")(also, I'll explain it that way so the other person knows it's a quick courtesy), that's just as bad. In the end, it's INAUTHENTIC. Being thoughtful about who you're out with, and extending a courtesy to a friend/family member quickly without losing presence in the situation is the type of authentic I want to be. Someone that's only interested in their phone, and not at all present in the actual situation, is not authentic at all.
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Thanks guys. Unfortunately it was a first date, so that definitely killed any interest of having a second date :lol
And full disclosure, a couple years ago I was very similar. I found myself constantly checking facebook, and looking at updates on twitter and so forth. I was really wrapped up in all of it, But at some point, I just felt like it was being detrimental to my life and deleted my accounts, and for me personally I feel way more chill not thinking about updates, views or likes. Much less anxious for sure.
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Yea, I wouldn't do a second date with a girl who couldn't focus on the first date. Using the phone to check a message isn't that big of a deal, although I think one should be able to survive say the first 30 minutes meeting someone you might have interest in. I feel like once the ice is broken and if you were to notice an important message, it's not a big deal to pull out your phone, but I would be respectful about it and maybe even say something like "is it cool if I respond quickly to this important message from my mother?" Also, for me, typically someone is going to the bathroom at some point during the first date and that's a good time to respond to anything important.
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Thanks guys. Unfortunately it was a first date, so that definitely killed any interest of having a second date :lol
And full disclosure, a couple years ago I was very similar. I found myself constantly checking facebook, and looking at updates on twitter and so forth. I was really wrapped up in all of it, But at some point, I just felt like it was being detrimental to my life and deleted my accounts, and for me personally I feel way more chill not thinking about updates, views or likes. Much less anxious for sure.
How was that conversation?
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How was that conversation?
The "I don't want a 2nd date" conversation?
I just said what I always say when I'm not feeling a 2nd date. I said: "I believe in being open and honest. I'm not really feeling a relationship connection, thank you for you time regardless. Have a good one"
She was fine with that, and appreciated my honesty. I didn't say anything about the phone.
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I think you should have, I would have, unless it wasn't really the reason why you didn't want a 2nd date.
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I would've slipped in a "How about we have sex after dinner?" just to see if she was paying attention.
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Wait... so was she hot or not?
I read a thing about how people are too connected and it's a kind of addiction. The writer's solution was to delete Facebook, Instagram, all that, from their phone. Really? As opposed to, you know, keeping the damned phone in your pocket or just not using it?
I have Facebook, email, texts, all kinds of stuff on my phone, but somehow I manage to get through entire meals without the need to check them. Hell, I go all day sometimes. I'll get home and Mrs. Orbert will ask if I picked up milk, and I didn't know we were out, so she asks "Didn't you get my text?" I look, and hey, she sent me a text like five hours ago while I was a work. "Please grab milk". I remind her that phones can also be used for voice communication. Crazy, I know.
People just need to have some self-control. It's not that complicated.
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7 out of 10 I guess, by the typical scale of attractiveness.
But honestly, I'm mostly attracted to the geeky kind of girl with glasses. The super low maintenance tomboy type.
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7 out of 10 I guess, by the typical scale of attractiveness.
But honestly, I'm mostly attracted to the geeky kind of girl with glasses. The super low maintenance tomboy type.
So I take it that wasn't her?
I'm kinda with Orbert on this; deleting everything wholesale is sort of conceding defeat, isn't it? I have my moments of obsession, but thankfully social media/phones aren't one of them.
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I think it's much easier for an older person to not be obsessed with their phone. The young people today are growing up with them attached to their hands. Going to be real hard to get them to put the phones down. I'm kind of in the middle having grown up before them but now having lived a large part of my life with them, I have become fairly obsessed. It's hard to put it away, and not really due to social media, but work, news, pedometer, music player, banking, stocks... and I don't even game on my phone.
I brought this up in the concert thread, but maybe has a place here as well...
I went to a phone free concert a few weeks ago. It was the Original Misfits line up and they had a strict no phone policy and used a company called Yondr that put your phone in a locked pouch. You could access it at unlock stations, but essentially within the viewing area of the arena, no phones allowed. It worked mostly well, some people got them out, but either way, it was a really odd feeling walking around the arena without a phone. Felt a bit naked in a way, but it was interesting. I think people were much more approachable to talk to than with phones. (in fact, someone at the Slayer concert over the weekend approached me and said hey remember we were talking at the misfits concert!) A lot of comments on social media about the concert were actually really positive about the atmosphere of a no phone concert. Personally I'd rather my phone, but it was kind of nice to experience such an event.
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I'd be like "OMG I lost my phone!" every 12 minutes, and if I was drinking, every 9 minutes. :)
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A while back I read about a company that was developing something for concerts that'd sit on the top of the stage and project into the audience. It'd emit something that was invisible to the human eye, but it would somehow interfere with the camera and its sensors on cellphones, rendering them useless.
I can't remember what the thing was called.
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A while back I read about a company that was developing something for concerts that'd sit on the top of the stage and project into the audience. It'd emit something that was invisible to the human eye, but it would somehow interfere with the camera and its sensors on cellphones, rendering them useless.
I can't remember what the thing was called.
I might buy one, mount it to the top of my head, and bring it to every concert I go to. Nothing more satisfying that finding out that douchebag holding the iPad over his noodle during the show got nothing but static and xig zag lines.
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A while back I read about a company that was developing something for concerts that'd sit on the top of the stage and project into the audience. It'd emit something that was invisible to the human eye, but it would somehow interfere with the camera and its sensors on cellphones, rendering them useless.
I can't remember what the thing was called.
When I saw the Red Hot Chili Peppers last year, they had these really awesome lights that would move and come down from the ceiling of the arena. It was a really cool visual part of their show, but the lights really fucked with my camera not allowing it to focus on the stage. I was wondering if there was a dual purpose for those lights for making phone videos really difficult. However, if you had a decent camera, you'd be able to adjust or if you were on the floor below the lights they would be out of the way.
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Every once in a while, I'll forget and leave the house without my phone. Once I realize it, it's kinda weird. I've gotten used to having it on me, not because I feel the need to use it all the time, but simply because it's one of the things I always have. I always have my keys, I always have my wallet, and I always have my phone. The phone is just in case I need it, but it's weird how quickly you get used to having something, and then feel naked without it.
First time it happened, I was on my way to work, and realized I'd left my phone in the charger at home. I figured I should let Mrs. Orbert know that I didn't have it and she'd have to call my land line at work if she needed me. So to call her and let her know this, I reached for my phone...
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:lol
I have so done that very thing.
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First world Fogey problems.