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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on February 14, 2018, 07:04:40 AM
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I think they're very overrated. There are many metal bands who are much better than them and who deserve to be bigger than them.
What you think? Discuss.
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I dig Cowboys from Hell as an album, but the majority of their 90s material is overrated imo.
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For years they were my #2 band of all time. They have slipped a bit over the years but that's mainly because I have played all of their albums to death!
Whenever I do get the urge though I'm reminded that they were beautifully brutal and I can just listen to them all day. What helped cement my love for them was watching their '3 Vulgar Videos from Hell' DVD. Me and my buddies used to get drunk and stick that on, it was a blast :lol
So for me, not overrated at all.
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Absolutely.
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Honestly, they've barely ever been on my radar, and I have never really seen all that much hype about them. So they can't really be "overrated" to me. Just another band out there.
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I never realised how big they were in some quarters at the time - perhaps they were over rated but in their sweet spot (which for me is Cowboys/Vulgar Display) they were right at the upper end of my tolerance for "super heavy" but had a melodic side that I really enjoyed.
After that era I thought they just went too far into trying to "out-heavy" everyone . Even my favourite albums of theirs I found inconsistent but my favourite songs (eg Cemetery gates) are some of my all time favourite metal songs.
So yeah.........on the whole I would probably agree but they certainly had their moments for me.
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No, not at all. They were THE band flying the flag for heavy music in the 90's, when my other favorites were going a little softer (Metallica, Megadeth). Not to say that those other records are bad, just not the full-on, heavy/thrash records like they used to be.
Dime's guitar playing and riff's, Vinnie smashing the drums and Phil being Phil - that's what they were about. I saw them live three times, my favorite being the 1997 Official Live tour in the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago. I was 17, had just seen them a month or two before at Ozzfest from the lawn, and having the energy of their live show captured in an enclosed room was amazing.
So when I want to hear that unrelenting heaviness and groove, I go back to them, usually once or twice a year.
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I hear them once in a while on Sirius, and I have yet to hear a song that I want to listen to again. Same with Slayer. I don't mind the heavy, it just seems so... cartoonish at times. I even sing the "Entrance of the Gladiators" (you know it as "the circus song") in my head when Slayer comes on. Dime is a better guitar player than King/Henneman, so I haven't devolved to that point yet.
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never been a fan, so, yes :P
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I do like them, so no.
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Honestly, I've never stopped to listen to one of their albums. But one thing I can tell for sure: I don't hear the name Pantera as often as other metal bands.
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Honestly, they've barely ever been on my radar, and I have never really seen all that much hype about them. So they can't really be "overrated" to me. Just another band out there.
Only now I read your post. It seems that we agreed for the third time in the same day. Is this a presage of the apocalypse? :lol
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There are many metal bands who are much better than them and who deserve to be bigger than them.
You've just described about 98% of all popular bands in existence, or probably even more.
Do I like Pantera? Overall not really, but I don't think they're overrated. They were part of a very big heavy metal movement in the 90's.
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Difficult question. As Phil's voice declined and he went into a rougher style, they lost me. But I'm not sure how I feel mirrors that of the metal world. For me, Cowboys and Vulgar are incredible records. But after that, I really just like a few songs from each of the records that followed.
Not really sure if I think they are overrated in metal, because it really depends on how you liked the evolution of the vocals, IMO. I guess that would put me in the overrate category, but to be honest, I love the music, so I am not really sure I'd agree with that.
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CfH, VDoP and tGST are killer albums, but I can easily do without the rest of their discography. I wouldn't say overrated because at least two of the albums I've just cited receive the praise they deserve. And I absolutely LOVE Dimebag's playing.
B.Lee
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Highly overrated. IMO they're pretty terrible.
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I love Pantera. Great band.
Yet, I don't get why people refer to them as a God-Tier band.
So yes... Overrated.
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For me they were not overrated. In fact, they were THE premier metal band of the 90's and one of the top metal bands of all time.
Compared to other metal bands at the time, Pantera were in another realm. They had the best combination of heavy, power, and groove. They carved their own niche. Other metal bands didn't have that or they didn't pull it off (heavy/groove) as well. In the 90's you had old school Priest, Maiden, Ozzy, etc. still doing their thing. The thrash bands from the 80's either started changing (Metallica, Megadeth) and went not so thrashy or didn't evolve much at all (Slayer, Anthrax, Testament). Metal began to expand with sub-genres too but Pantera stood out above the rest. It was infectious.
I saw them 4 times live. They usually took out good bands that would open for them (White Zombie, Machine Head, to name a couple) and Pantera was just that much better than them live. They basically headlined Ozzfest in 2000 and while I didn't go, many say that the venues would half-empty out after Pantera was done before Ozzy took the stage.
You had the character & incredible guitar playing of Dime, solid drumming of Vinnie Paul, and people don't realize how musical Rex Brown is on the bass. Listen to Pantera songs and concentrate on the bass lines. He's not just playing along with the riff. He plays around the riff.
Plus, their material and influence stands the test of time. It's not like Limp Bizkit where you hear the music and think "90's nu-metal." Metal fans still seem to hold Pantera in high regard.
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Not their hair metal era...which a lot of people don't even know about. Power Metal for the win.
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Honestly, they've barely ever been on my radar, and I have never really seen all that much hype about them. So they can't really be "overrated" to me. Just another band out there.
This. I think they're a great band that have some really good albums, but I don't think they can be overrated since it's not one of those bands that gets mentioned as the best or whatever
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I love Pantera and have been a big fan for a long time. They've been highly influental on many metal bands and Dime was a very respected guitar player so I have a hard time seeing them as overrated. Of course they're not as big as Maiden or Metallica or Slayer but they definitely influenced alot of bands and left a mark.
I think a big part of their popularity is how well respected the band and especially Dime was as a person off and on stage. Any metal band active during the 90s probably have tour stories on meeting and hanging out with the band and how crazy and fun Dime was. So since his death alot of those stories surfaced so he's become somewhat of a cult figure both him as a person and his guitar playing which might be a reason why they can be perceived as overrated since their music might not live up to the cult status they have.
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I love Pantera and have been a big fan for a long time. They've been highly influental on many metal bands and Dime was a very respected guitar player so I have a hard time seeing them as overrated. Of course they're not as big as Maiden or Metallica or Slayer but they definitely influenced alot of bands and left a mark.
I think a big part of their popularity is how well respected the band and especially Dime was as a person off and on stage. Any metal band active during the 90s probably have tour stories on meeting and hanging out with the band and how crazy and fun Dime was. So since his death alot of those stories surfaced so he's become somewhat of a cult figure both him as a person and his guitar playing which might be a reason why they can be perceived as overrated since their music might not live up to the cult status they have.
Yeah. That makes sense, yet no one listens to Damageplan which is what Dimebag would be playing.
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People here make a strong argument with them being the flag-bearers of the 90s, but I still think they're overrated. From a musicianship standpoint I never saw it. Musically I thought Cowboys/Vulgar had some appeal. However, they seemed to target a demographic I really don't like, which is to say the hyper-aggressive shirtless fucks who just want to swill cheap beer punch each other in the face. I have to wonder how successful they'd be without the alpha-redneck audience. There are people here who don't represent that group, so I certainly get that they had other things going for them. When discussing their standing, though, I think it was their greatest asset.
Somebody mentioned half the audience leaving before Ozzy came on and my initial thought was "yeah, that sounds about right." I don't see any of us here doing that.
edit: In the interest of fairness I'll also point out that I was among the people who were around when Diamond Darrell was playing hair metal and generally cheesing up Dallas County. That didn't exactly endear me to them, and the transition to Dimebag Darrell was pretty comical.
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I totally get Pantera's aesthetic. It's aggressive, badass in your face groove metal and I think they're awesome for that. Dimebag's amazing solos are the icing on the cake, and outside of that I think Cemetary Gates is a beautiful hard rock 'ballad'. Not overrated at all. But definitely not a very versatile band or anything.
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Let me start off by saying that I love Pantera dearly. They are one of the bands that shaped my teenage years and Cowboys From Hell is still one of my all time favorite albums. And they did help keep metal music alive during the grunge era and were one of the pioneers of groove metal. With that said, they may be a bit overrated in the sense that other than Cowboys From Hell and Vulgar Display of Power, their discography is very hit and miss. Far Beyond Driven and The Great Southern Trendkill are both decent albums with some great songs and some mediocre ones. And then there’s Reinventing the Steel, which was subpar at best. And tbh, as I look back, VDoP had quite a few clunkers on it as well (looking at you A New Level). Still, Cowboys From Hell is nearly perfect from start to finish and there’s no taking that away from them.
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Not really. I think their material from Cowboys to 101 Proof is really direct, raw, in-your-face groove metal without having to fall back on the Alt. Rock, Industrial or Nu-Metal trends of the era. My favorite from them is The Great Southern Trendkill.
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DO I love Pantera? Yes
Do I think they are overrated? Possibly, but they were just the number one band keeping metal alive in the 90's. I do think the wraps they get for some of their stuff might be a little much but I love everything from Cowboys up to Reinventing, especially Trendkill, that's probably my fav and such an amazing brutal metal album. I'm gonna vote no though.
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DO I love Pantera? Yes
Do I think they are overrated? Possibly, but they were just the number one band keeping metal alive in the 90's. I do think the wraps they get for some of their stuff might be a little much but I love everything from Cowboys up to Reinventing, especially Trendkill, that's probably my fav and such an amazing brutal metal album. I'm gonna vote no though.
In terms of popularity, I'll definitely give you that. But let's be real- many of the best metal albums of the 90's came from a certain band run by a man named Chuck Schuldiner... :metal
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Not personally a fan but they came at a moment where they were the answer to metal falling out of fashion or the giants of the genre failing for whatever reason to live up to their potential. They were the right band at the right time, an anchor for those who saw grunge taking everything over while Maiden and Priest and the likes were losing their singers and popularity. Also as noted above Dimebag was loved by everyone in the industry. I think they're rated just fine.
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DO I love Pantera? Yes
Do I think they are overrated? Possibly, but they were just the number one band keeping metal alive in the 90's. I do think the wraps they get for some of their stuff might be a little much but I love everything from Cowboys up to Reinventing, especially Trendkill, that's probably my fav and such an amazing brutal metal album. I'm gonna vote no though.
In terms of popularity, I'll definitely give you that. But let's be real- many of the best metal albums of the 90's came from a certain band run by a man named Chuck Schuldiner... :metal
Yes, I meant in terms of keeping metal in the spotlight. There would be dozens and dozens of metal bands in the 90's that I'd take over them, Death included.
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Out of the 90's American metal bands I would take Neurosis over Pantera anytime. And they sound heavy as much as Pantera.
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Not personally a fan but they came at a moment where they were the answer to metal falling out of fashion or the giants of the genre failing for whatever reason to live up to their potential. They were the right band at the right time, an anchor for those who saw grunge taking everything over while Maiden and Priest and the likes were losing their singers and popularity. Also as noted above Dimebag was loved by everyone in the industry. I think they're rated just fine.
Dimebag is unmatched when it comes to coming up with incredible Metal Riffs. He was no slouch when it came to soloing either....but his metal riffs were/are incredible.
As far as Pantera being overrated....absolutely not. Sure there may have been other metal bands out there at the time but Pantera was THE metal band at the time that was at the top and driving that scene.
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I don't think they were/are overrated. They're not underrated either. I think they hold their place in the history of metal. After Dime was killed, it increased the awareness of Pantera some, but not to the level like Cobain's death did for Nirvana.
There's still that "what could have been" if Dime wasn't dead and Phil got his stuff together. Would they have ever mended fences, cleaned up their act, and done more records? Who knows.
By the way, I'm not a fan of the idea of a "reunion" with Zakk Wylde on guitar as many have speculated/desired/expressed. Zakk & Dime were friends, but Zakk is a different player than Dime. Nobody really thinks this will happen but if it got traction, I wouldn't be interested.
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DO I love Pantera? Yes
Do I think they are overrated? Possibly, but they were just the number one band keeping metal alive in the 90's. I do think the wraps they get for some of their stuff might be a little much but I love everything from Cowboys up to Reinventing, especially Trendkill, that's probably my fav and such an amazing brutal metal album. I'm gonna vote no though.
In terms of popularity, I'll definitely give you that. But let's be real- many of the best metal albums of the 90's came from a certain band run by a man named Chuck Schuldiner... :metal
Control Denied?....
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I find Pantera extreme bland, and I don't get the hype surrounding Dimebag's guitar tone. But that's just me, if other people enjoy them then why not.
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For me they were not overrated. In fact, they were THE premier metal band of the 90's and one of the top metal bands of all time.
Compared to other metal bands at the time, Pantera were in another realm. They had the best combination of heavy, power, and groove. They carved their own niche. Other metal bands didn't have that or they didn't pull it off (heavy/groove) as well. In the 90's you had old school Priest, Maiden, Ozzy, etc. still doing their thing. The thrash bands from the 80's either started changing (Metallica, Megadeth) and went not so thrashy or didn't evolve much at all (Slayer, Anthrax, Testament). Metal began to expand with sub-genres too but Pantera stood out above the rest. It was infectious.
I saw them 4 times live. They usually took out good bands that would open for them (White Zombie, Machine Head, to name a couple) and Pantera was just that much better than them live. They basically headlined Ozzfest in 2000 and while I didn't go, many say that the venues would half-empty out after Pantera was done before Ozzy took the stage.
You had the character & incredible guitar playing of Dime, solid drumming of Vinnie Paul, and people don't realize how musical Rex Brown is on the bass. Listen to Pantera songs and concentrate on the bass lines. He's not just playing along with the riff. He plays around the riff.
Plus, their material and influence stands the test of time. It's not like Limp Bizkit where you hear the music and think "90's nu-metal." Metal fans still seem to hold Pantera in high regard.
This, so very much! You can't possibly have lived through the angst-ridden, alternative nineties like I did and say that Pantera are/were an overrated band. The band singlehandedly kept the metal flag alive during those trying times.
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DO I love Pantera? Yes
Do I think they are overrated? Possibly, but they were just the number one band keeping metal alive in the 90's. I do think the wraps they get for some of their stuff might be a little much but I love everything from Cowboys up to Reinventing, especially Trendkill, that's probably my fav and such an amazing brutal metal album. I'm gonna vote no though.
In terms of popularity, I'll definitely give you that. But let's be real- many of the best metal albums of the 90's came from a certain band run by a man named Chuck Schuldiner... :metal
Control Denied?....
Good call, but I knew what he meant, even their first two albums were in the 80's I always think of them as a more 90's based metal band, even though that's not technically accurate.
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I've never heard anything from Pantera that I even remotely enjoyed.
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Not personally a fan but they came at a moment where they were the answer to metal falling out of fashion or the giants of the genre failing for whatever reason to live up to their potential. They were the right band at the right time, an anchor for those who saw grunge taking everything over while Maiden and Priest and the likes were losing their singers and popularity. Also as noted above Dimebag was loved by everyone in the industry. I think they're rated just fine.
Dimebag is unmatched when it comes to coming up with incredible Metal Riffs. He was no slouch when it came to soloing either....but his metal riffs were/are incredible.
As far as Pantera being overrated....absolutely not. Sure there may have been other metal bands out there at the time but Pantera was THE metal band at the time that was at the top and driving that scene.
This is how I feel. I absolutely loved Pantera and am surprised to see so many saying their overrated in this thread.
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I've never heard anything from Pantera that I even remotely enjoyed.
Same here. I know how revered they are, but they have never appealed to me.
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Not personally a fan but they came at a moment where they were the answer to metal falling out of fashion or the giants of the genre failing for whatever reason to live up to their potential. They were the right band at the right time, an anchor for those who saw grunge taking everything over while Maiden and Priest and the likes were losing their singers and popularity. Also as noted above Dimebag was loved by everyone in the industry. I think they're rated just fine.
Dimebag is unmatched when it comes to coming up with incredible Metal Riffs. He was no slouch when it came to soloing either....but his metal riffs were/are incredible.
As far as Pantera being overrated....absolutely not. Sure there may have been other metal bands out there at the time but Pantera was THE metal band at the time that was at the top and driving that scene.
This is how I feel. I absolutely loved Pantera and am surprised to see so many saying their overrated in this thread.
Unmatched? I think... hang on, phone is ringing... guys, it's Tony Iommi. He's having trouble logging in but he'd like a word... :) :) :)
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I've never heard anything from Pantera that I even remotely enjoyed.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/da/75/8f/da758f84ea7b03be0e0a6f3c4e2c3570.jpg)
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Not personally a fan but they came at a moment where they were the answer to metal falling out of fashion or the giants of the genre failing for whatever reason to live up to their potential. They were the right band at the right time, an anchor for those who saw grunge taking everything over while Maiden and Priest and the likes were losing their singers and popularity. Also as noted above Dimebag was loved by everyone in the industry. I think they're rated just fine.
Dimebag is unmatched when it comes to coming up with incredible Metal Riffs. He was no slouch when it came to soloing either....but his metal riffs were/are incredible.
As far as Pantera being overrated....absolutely not. Sure there may have been other metal bands out there at the time but Pantera was THE metal band at the time that was at the top and driving that scene.
This is how I feel. I absolutely loved Pantera and am surprised to see so many saying their overrated in this thread.
Unmatched? I think... hang on, phone is ringing... guys, it's Tony Iommi. He's having trouble logging in but he'd like a word... :) :) :)
Tony Iommi is the most overrated metal guitarist ever.
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Count, I don't think so. Those riffs he created have stood the test of time and influenced at least two generations of guitarists. If you follow some hot shot who can outplay Iommi, then so be it, but to call him overrated is not correct. Tony Iommi is properly rated.
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He's certainly at the top of my list of favorite guitarists missing their fingertips.
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Tony Iommi invented the heavy metal riffs FFS. And he did it without fingers.
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Not personally a fan but they came at a moment where they were the answer to metal falling out of fashion or the giants of the genre failing for whatever reason to live up to their potential. They were the right band at the right time, an anchor for those who saw grunge taking everything over while Maiden and Priest and the likes were losing their singers and popularity. Also as noted above Dimebag was loved by everyone in the industry. I think they're rated just fine.
Dimebag is unmatched when it comes to coming up with incredible Metal Riffs. He was no slouch when it came to soloing either....but his metal riffs were/are incredible.
As far as Pantera being overrated....absolutely not. Sure there may have been other metal bands out there at the time but Pantera was THE metal band at the time that was at the top and driving that scene.
This is how I feel. I absolutely loved Pantera and am surprised to see so many saying their overrated in this thread.
Unmatched? I think... hang on, phone is ringing... guys, it's Tony Iommi. He's having trouble logging in but he'd like a word... :) :) :)
I definitely enjoy Tony’s playing, I just think that Dimebag took heavy to a different level. Dimebag is one of my favorite metal guitarists so maybe I’m biased.
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Not personally a fan but they came at a moment where they were the answer to metal falling out of fashion or the giants of the genre failing for whatever reason to live up to their potential. They were the right band at the right time, an anchor for those who saw grunge taking everything over while Maiden and Priest and the likes were losing their singers and popularity. Also as noted above Dimebag was loved by everyone in the industry. I think they're rated just fine.
Dimebag is unmatched when it comes to coming up with incredible Metal Riffs. He was no slouch when it came to soloing either....but his metal riffs were/are incredible.
As far as Pantera being overrated....absolutely not. Sure there may have been other metal bands out there at the time but Pantera was THE metal band at the time that was at the top and driving that scene.
This is how I feel. I absolutely loved Pantera and am surprised to see so many saying their overrated in this thread.
Unmatched? I think... hang on, phone is ringing... guys, it's Tony Iommi. He's having trouble logging in but he'd like a word... :) :) :)
I definitely enjoy Tony’s playing, I just think that Dimebag took heavy to a different level. Dimebag is one of my favorite metal guitarists so maybe I’m biased.
Yeah. Iommi certainly has the notoriety but for my taste when you lay their bodies of work next to each other Dime Bag outshines him. I agree he had a different level...
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I'm gonna be like an E.T. here :D
I love Pantera and I think my next project could be around groove metal.
But I nearly never listened to vdop or cfh, except the big hits.
On the other hand it has been nearly 22 years that tgst runs at least once a month in the car or at home !
This album inspires me, has brutality and emotion, etc...
They are underrated to me, especially in my teen years in france, I remember trash was way more successfull then.
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Wow, deep respect for differing opinions - I'm a Kiss fan for God's sake - but I don't know how on ANY level other than "I just like his shit better" does Dime surpass Iommi. I'm not saying that Iommi is Hendrix or Van Halen (shoot, I can play about 90% of the first four Sabbath albums, and I pretty much suck) but sometimes simple is better, and while "popularity" isn't really the only standard, some of those riffs have transcended generations and genres.