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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: RoeDent on January 28, 2018, 01:40:40 PM
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January 29th marks 16 years since Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence was released. Good time for some reflections.
For me, DT have never been more experimental than on Disc 1 of this album, certainly on the last three tracks. Some truly incredible sound worlds they visited there.
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January 29th marks 16 years since Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence was released. Good time for some reflections.
For me, DT have never been more experimental than on Disc 1 of this album, certainly on the last three tracks. Some truly incredible sound worlds they visited there.
I can tell Stadler didn't write this post, because I agree with it 100%.
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16 years! It seems like yesterday. My wife and I were engaged at the time and remodeling what would become our first home. I got the CD on the day of the release and blasted it while we worked on putting new cabinets in the kitchen.
After disc 1 was finished she said, "Glad that's over!" as she appreciates the musicianship but isn't into DT.
I responded with "It's a 2 disc release! We've gotta listen to the second disc!"
She wasn't amused. But she was a good sport as she endured the second disc while we continued working.
On a side note, she did go with me to a show during the world tourbulence tour. She was a keeper then. Still is now. Every so often she asks, "When is Dream Theater coming out with a new album?"
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Spectacular album. I don't know if I could say they have never been "more experimental." But still, it's just a very solid, very creative album. My favorite from the band and one of my favorites from anybody.
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The album that got me into DT, can't believe it's been that long. I'll never forget the intro to TGP, so much riffage.
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I remember buying this album. I went to a midnight release at a big record store in St. Louis, and was running back to my car when a cop stopped me.
Because I came running out of a store at midnight in the city with the highest murder rate in the country.
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4/5ths of the first disc is some of my favorite music by any band collected on any one disc. 100% of the second disc is a bore and a drag.
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4/5ths of the first disc is some of my favorite music by any band collected on any one disc. 100% of the second disc is a bore and a drag.
I kind of agree.
When I first got it, I automatically liked the second disc more. Since then I can barely stand to listen to it. I still like About to Crash and Solitary Shell but even those don't do much for me anymore.
I loved Blind Faith almost immediately and it is still one of my favorite DT songs of all time. Misunderstood is up there, too. Glass Prison I think is a bit overrated but only because so many people herald it as this amazing masterpiece and I just think it's incredibly good. I never could get into Great Debate until I heard they were playing it on the ADTOE tour and all of the sudden it clicked. I must have listened to that song on repeat dozens of times in the build up to the shows. Disappear does the job. I don't particularly "like" it but it's a beautiful song and I'm glad there is something like that to wrap up disc 1.
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January 29th marks 16 years since Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence was released. Good time for some reflections.
For me, DT have never been more experimental than on Disc 1 of this album, certainly on the last three tracks. Some truly incredible sound worlds they visited there.
I can tell Stadler didn't write this post, because I agree with it 100%.
That and the fact that there's only TWO commas.
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Better than Scenes in my opinion...as a whole since it’s a double disc..to me this was DT with MP at their peak...saw them in Grand Prarie Tx play 6DOIT live and they were a machine..great songs on disc 1..and an incredible story and song which is disc 2..a rollercoaster of musical prowess
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Blind Faith, Misunderstood and The Great Debate are three of my favorite post-2000 DT songs, sooo good! :hefdaddy
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Still not completely sold on how the songs are looooooooong, how the ending of Misunderstood goes on forever and the general vibe of The Great Debate.
All in all, a convincing and daring release, maybe here and there there was some fat that could be trimmed but I consider it a great album, not my personal favorite but a strong and historically important one.
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My favorite album all time. Love every damn second of disc 1 and disc 2. Glass Prison got me into DT and even if it took a while to fully appreciate the album it grew over time and finally became the one.
It always stands the test of time for me. Listened to it so many times and I never get bored of any song or moment.
Words that come to mind; creative, progressive, experimental, joy, symphonic, energy, melodic, diverse.
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My first DT album, first concert in Nov. 2003. First touch, first impression, totally blown away. Start of quit a journey.
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Hehe found this which I think is both accurate and very funny! :rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCIcZguNvSQ
The start of Glass Prison is still the most badass thing ever composed! :hefdaddy
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Waiting soooooooooo long for SFAM to become a reality and then finally getting a killer album out of it, then how would they top that? With almost the perfect release. From the cover to the 2 disc format with unbelievable music throughout that was a totally different approach from the prev. release. IMO, it didn't top SFAM, but will always be 2nd on my chart. :tup
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The Glass Prison has one of the best openings in their catalog and is a ridiculously solid rocker from start to finish. Has always been a favorite of mine. In addition I've always loved Misunderstood, The Great Debate, and about 1/3rd of Disappear from the first disc. In general I loved a lot of the things they tried on the album.
As for the second disc, it was always a piece I enjoyed, and having got into the band at the end of the Train of Thought tour I was already on the forums and a heavy fan and had learned that they would never play it again live and was quite sad I had come on late to get that chance. Then Radio City happened and I was able to witness what I would argue is the definitive version of the song, which was amazing.
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I remember my dad buying the album and not liking it because it was too heavy. It got passed on to me, who was 11 or 12 at the time. I thought that Misunderstood and Disc Two were the greatest things ever. I would blare them over my dad's speakers while I played video games and ran around our basement. Fun times. :metal
16 years later and I now appreciate all of the other songs on the record, save for possibly The Great Debate. I would rank both Disappear and Misunderstood in my personal top-ten Dream Theater songs. :hefdaddy
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One of the best albums ever written by any band, and an album that changed my life. I distinctly recall being 13 and hearing Six Degrees for the first time. Spent a whole summer listening to little else than Dream Theater and that album. Summer vacation, Dream Theater, 6D, all day every day. :metal
I've long said it's my #1 favorite DT album but realistically, I&W and 6D share the exact same spot, for some of the same reasons, and some different. It's an absolute masterpiece!
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Wow. 16 years already?!
Disc 1 remains as my favorite DT album (tops SFAM and Awake which flip flop depending on the mood that I am).
I'm not a fan of Disc 2 and would rank it in the middle of the pack. I'd rather listen to the RCMH version than the studio version.
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I've been hit by a musical truck twice in my life :
-Discovering DT via scenes, I&W and LTE !
-Listening to six degrees and LTE2
I think DT only, six degrees would be the one I would take on a desert island, it contains what I like in the band.
Blind faith is one of my favorite songs ever and each time goodnight kiss's solo comes I feel like crying, etc... :)
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LOVE this album. When it came out I remember saying it sounds like Sesame Street on ice with the orchestra bit but it quickly grew on me. I remember it had just come out and I did a road trip through Florida with my ex. We drove the whole state and listened to it multiple times so it always reminds me of that. It gives me a nostalgic vibe but it still kicks ass.
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Great album. I used to rank it right behind the big three, but some of the newer ones surpassed it. Still, it probably is the band's most experimental release, which is especially reflected in The Great debate and Disappear, two of their biggest masterpieces. I also love The Glass prison, as well as most of the title track, although I rarely listen to studio version of the latter - the live performance on Score is superbly superior.
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Disc 1 is awesome. Disc 2 bored the crap out of me when it came out and still does. Grandiose concept - great. Listening to lyrics about "random urine testing?" :tdwn :tdwn :tdwn
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January 2002: I had just been admitted to practice law, and my wife and I were expecting our first child (born in May 2002). I can distinctly recall listing to the album (primarily disc 2) on my commute home (and, for whatever reason, I have a very specific association with driving over the Vincent Thomas and Gerald Desmond Bridges in the Los Angeles Harbor (we lived in Belmont Heights in Long Beach at the time).
I've always preferred disc 2. What the band put together in that disc was just incredible -- especially when I was expecting a letdown after SFAM. It took me a long time to get into disc 1. I finally got into Blind Faith, Glass Prison and Misunderstood shortly before the first Prog Nation tour. I think it took so long simply because I thought disc 2 was so much better that I never gave disc 1 a fair shake. However, I still regularly skip Disappear and The Great Debate (the latter of which is probably the worst track ever to appear on a DT album).
Unfortunately, for whatever reason, I missed DT on this tour.
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https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/dream-theater/2002/palavobis-milan-italy-63d6d2cf.html
I didn't, that was my show. What a way to spend Valentine Day!
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I found the orchestra-only Overture on Score to be incredibly underwhelming. It needs the KICK and the EDGE of pure ROCK music! The studio version is best.
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Blind Faith is my favorite, hands down best song on the entire album :metal
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Still not completely sold on how the songs are looooooooong,
Well it is the very album with a 40 minute song................
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A lot of fond memories of that album and tour. Still a top 3 Dream Theater album for me. Disappear is probably the only song on that album I'm not totally into.
Scored an advance promo about a month before the album came from a guy I used to know who dealt in those kinds of things.
Caught the BB Kings warmup show and the two Beacon shows. Those Beacon shows easily make my list of top 10 Dream Theater shows.
It's a high water mark.
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For me, this is the high mark for DT, so far. Hell, it's the high mark for anyone ever for that matter. I literally can't think of an album I like more.
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For me, this is the high mark for DT, so far. Hell, it's the high mark for anyone ever for that matter. I literally can't think of an album I like more.
Ditto. Over the years, this has become my favorite DT record. I see the comment around here a lot that the second disc is weak, I have certainly never thought that. I think both discs are pretty great front-to-back.
It seems like in prog circles I&W or SFAM get mentioned a lot as DT's "classic" album, for my money that album is SDOIT.
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It seems like in prog circles I&W or SFAM get mentioned a lot as DT's "classic" album, for my money that album is SDOIT.
Notwithstanding my previously mentioned dislike for Disappear and The Great Debate, these three albums are incredibly close in my top 3. I think I ultimately put SFAM on top, followed by I&W, and then SDOIT, but on any given day, the order may be reversed. It's a little like trying to rank the songs on side 1 of Moving Picture or picking a favorite child.
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I have to wonder how long the OP waited to be able to use this thread title. "Alright! Just two more years. . ."
While I like the guitar solo, Blind Faith keeps this from being a perfect album. In fact, it's bad enough in my book to drag the entire album down a notch. It's a shame there wasn't something better in that slot, which could have certainly been nothing at all.
While I really liked hearing the orchestra play the overture at RCMH, by and large I thought they were mostly pointless, and at times a detriment. Prerecorded and abbreviated intro aside, the regular tour version I saw was better.
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I think I'm misunderstanding something about Misunderstood. I've always heard Portnoy going 'Shug! Shug! Shhhug! Shhuuuug!' towards the end of the song. It distracts me everytime.
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Yeah the end of that song always made me think they were purposely trying to make our girlfriends not go to their shows :facepalm:
Blind Faith is awesome, love the bass intro, Solitary Shell is another gem.
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While I like the guitar solo, Blind Faith keeps this from being a perfect album. In fact, it's bad enough in my book to drag the entire album down a notch. It's a shame there wasn't something better in that slot, which could have certainly been nothing at all.
Wwwwwwwwwwwwhat?????????????
(https://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Genie-Jaw-Drop.gif)
But it's the best track on the album :blush
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While I like the guitar solo, Blind Faith keeps this from being a perfect album. In fact, it's bad enough in my book to drag the entire album down a notch. It's a shame there wasn't something better in that slot, which could have certainly been nothing at all.
Wwwwwwwwwwwwhat?????????????
(https://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Genie-Jaw-Drop.gif)
But it's the best track on the album :blush
I honestly think that the second disc is what drags SDOIT down. It's not bad but compared to the first disc it's pretty mediocre.
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Top 5 DT album for me. Probably my favorite sounding DT Record and I love MP's performance. Probably my favorite MP drumming album. I love the second disk minus the overture. How can you not like Solitary Shell?
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Haven't listened to SDOIT in ages, should really do something about that!
It is a top.4 DT album for me. I have never decided on a favorite out of I&W, Awake, SFAM or SDOIT. They are all monumental records!
There is very little i dislike on Inner Turbulence. Blind Faith is also my favorite. Solitary Shell is also brilliant!
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While I like the guitar solo, Blind Faith keeps this from being a perfect album. In fact, it's bad enough in my book to drag the entire album down a notch. It's a shame there wasn't something better in that slot, which could have certainly been nothing at all.
Wwwwwwwwwwwwhat?????????????
(https://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Genie-Jaw-Drop.gif)
But it's the best track on the album :blush
I honestly think that the second disc is what makes SDOIT great. It's not bad but compared to the first disc it's completely awesome.
ftfy
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I have to wonder how long the OP waited to be able to use this thread title. "Alright! Just two more years. . ."
It didn't even come into my head until literally minutes before I started the thread.
(Although technically, come to think of it, the answer to this question is 16 years. ;))
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I too never paid attention to it only until it was pointed out, I thought it was a random title as any for the anniversary, didn't realize the assonance :lol
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While I like the guitar solo, Blind Faith keeps this from being a perfect album. In fact, it's bad enough in my book to drag the entire album down a notch. It's a shame there wasn't something better in that slot, which could have certainly been nothing at all.
Wwwwwwwwwwwwhat?????????????
(https://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Genie-Jaw-Drop.gif)
But it's the best track on the album :blush
I remember Mike Portnoy being asked what songs would have been cut if they were forced to make this a single disc album. He didn't hesitate in saying Blind Faith and (I think) Disappear. Not saying that I necessarily agree with him but I think melodically it's quite weak, it's not a great catchy chorus. It has loads of cool instrumental things in it though that I really enjoy so I do like the song. Not a fan of Disappear at all or large parts of the title track. Used to absolutely love The Great Debate but it's faded a little for me over the years, probably started when I heard it live and it didn't work at all.
Upper middle-tier album for me.
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Indeed he said that he spent a couple of nights awake contemplating a worst case scenario where the album had to be a single disc, and he mentioned Disappear and Blind Faith as the first ones to go, and that wasn't enough anyway.
I thought the solution was obvious. Cut the ending of Misunderstood ;D
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I remember Mike Portnoy being asked what songs would have been cut if they were forced to make this a single disc album. He didn't hesitate in saying Blind Faith and (I think) Disappear. Not saying that I necessarily agree with him but I think melodically it's quite weak, it's not a great catchy chorus. It has loads of cool instrumental things in it though that I really enjoy so I do like the song. Not a fan of Disappear at all or large parts of the title track. Used to absolutely love The Great Debate but it's faded a little for me over the years, probably started when I heard it live and it didn't work at all.
Upper middle-tier album for me.
Wow, I'm glad that didn't happen. Over time Blind Faith has become one of my favorite DT songs.
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I remember Mike Portnoy being asked what songs would have been cut if they were forced to make this a single disc album. He didn't hesitate in saying Blind Faith and (I think) Disappear.
What does that say about Portnoy's opinion of LaBrie's lyric-writing?
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I remember Mike Portnoy being asked what songs would have been cut if they were forced to make this a single disc album. He didn't hesitate in saying Blind Faith and (I think) Disappear.
What does that say about Portnoy's opinion of LaBrie's lyric-writing?
Well, nothing really. When you have to cut songs, do you cut the kickass opener? do you go for the mellow song that would balance the album? do you go for the other heavy song that needs once again to balance it all? no, you go for the most experimental song first, and then out of the remaining four Blind Faith must have looked the most expendable one.
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Man, an album with the tracklist:
The Glass Prison
Misunderstood
The Great Debate
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
would quite possibly rank at the bottom 2-3 DT albums for me.
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Disappear makes me choke up... beautiful lyrics, great music... one of DT's best ballads for sure. "And I'll carry on the best that I can, without you here beside me" makes me cry
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Nothing can top SFAM for me (yet), but SDOIT will always be my 2nd favorite :metal
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Indeed he said that he spent a couple of nights awake contemplating a worst case scenario where the album had to be a single disc, and he mentioned Disappear and Blind Faith as the first ones to go, and that wasn't enough anyway.
I thought the solution was obvious. Cut the ending of Misunderstood ;D
Cutting Blind Faith and leaving The Great Debate would have been criminal!
A track list of:
1. The Glass Prison
2. Blind Faith
3. Misunderstood (with a truncated ending)
4. Title Track
Would have made it a FLAWLESS album.
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3. Misunderstood (with a truncated ending)
Are there any versions of this floating around? I would love to hear an edited version of that song
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Wait, so the end of Misunderstood needs to be truncated/edited, but that fadeout at the end of Losing Time/Grand Finale doesn't? Er, okay.
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Wait, so the end of Misunderstood needs to be truncated/edited, but that fadeout at the end of Losing Time/Grand Finale doesn't? Er, okay.
I never really thought of it since it's just a fadeout, while Misunderstood goes on weirdly for 3 minutes, but yeah, excellent additional choice to save time.
I wonder if in that worst case scenario Portnoy actually considered this, and how far he went in calculating a single disc tracklist. Does the thought that maybe not every single second of music is essential crossed his mind? if he was in charge of Metallica's Load (which was 1 minute longer than a CD limit) would he have considered trimming the end of The Outlaw Torn (which actually happened) rather than removing another song off the tracklist?
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I'm not sure the band ever thought SERIOUSLY about cutting anything. I've always taken that comment as just casually addressing the passing thought of "what if?," as in, "what if the album had to be a single disc rather than a double? Hypothetically speaking, what song would you cut?" I'm sure that if there had been any real, credible push to cut it to a single disc, even in passing, they would have considered other practical solutions as well, like seeing if they could trim the fadeout on the title song, etc.
Cutting Blind Faith and leaving The Great Debate would have been criminal!
Criminally AWESOME! :D
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Sometimes this album is my favorite of all time, sometimes it's Scenes. To me it's stunning from start to finish and I wouldn't want to give up any of it. Blind Faith is one of their best songs imo and I really hope it makes its way back into a setlist soon.
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TGP sounds too much like Pantera in certain parts, which was probably intentional but over-done. :flame:
Love the album though..
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Wait, so the end of Misunderstood needs to be truncated/edited, but that fadeout at the end of Losing Time/Grand Finale doesn't? Er, okay.
I never really thought of it since it's just a fadeout, while Misunderstood goes on weirdly for 3 minutes, but yeah, excellent additional choice to save time.
Back in the day, before I could make mp3 CDs and fit a crap load of songs on to one CD, the single disc of 6DOIT I made for the car:
-shortened the fadeout of Losing Time/Grand Finale to normal length
-eliminated The Great Debate altogether
-shortened the fade in of Blind Faith by like 10 seconds
I managed to get the CD to seconds under 80 minutes by doing that.
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If I could cut SDOIT:
1. Disappear (the melancholy opening)
2. Blind Faith (the upbeat, kickass centerpiece track)
3. The Glass Prison (most of song cut, as an instrumental - LTS-esque)/War Inside my head/The Test that stumped them all (segues into Misunderstood) - All as a suite
4. Misunderstood (the main introspective, experimental ballad)
5. The Great Debate (the climactic epic)
Also the album would be renamed to: Industries of death
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It's basically tied with Awake as my favorite DT album. I especially love how huge the production sounds, and how they toyed with various production techniques, echoes, reverbs and whatnot. And the nice thing about it is that that experimentalism paid off. A very textured album, but still just enough of DT's trademark wankfests.
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3. Misunderstood (with a truncated ending)
Are there any versions of this floating around? I would love to hear an edited version of that song
There's a radio edit, but it cuts more than just the ending. It should be readily available, as it was on the "Greatest Hit. . . " collection (as well as being released on the "4 Degrees of Radio Edits" fan club disc).
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3. Misunderstood (with a truncated ending)
Are there any versions of this floating around? I would love to hear an edited version of that song
There's a radio edit, but it cuts more than just the ending.
Well, the solution is simple:
- Get the radio edit
- Get the original song
- Develop some rudimental copy and paste skills with an audio editor
- Edit the original song and slap at the end the truncated ending
- Profit
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3. Misunderstood (with a truncated ending)
Are there any versions of this floating around? I would love to hear an edited version of that song
There's a radio edit, but it cuts more than just the ending.
Well, the solution is simple:
- Get the radio edit
- Get the original song
- Develop some rudimental copy and paste skills with an audio editor
- Edit the original song and slap at the end the truncated ending
- Profit
Or...just get the original song and fade the ending early?
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....yeah, also that :biggrin:
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:lol
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TGP sounds too much like Pantera in certain parts, which was probably intentional but over-done. :flame:
Love the album though..
In MP's video "6 Degrees of Turbulent Drumming" he says that he and JP went to a Slayer concert and as a result were inspired to do something really heavy. Thus we have TGP.
The point was to be thrashy, heavy, but also have a distinct flavor of DT. I think there's more of a Slayer & early Metallica influence than a Pantera influence. MP mentioned in the video that the double bass pattern in the middle of the song was influenced by Vinnie Paul ("Becoming" maybe?).
The final part of the song screams Rush to me ("way off in the distance I saw a door I tried to open" part).
Before 6DOIT I always wondered what it would be like for DT to write a straight up metal song. Then I got 6DOIT on release day. I was pleasantly surprised by TGP.
BTW, can you picture MP & JP at a Slayer concert?
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I always thought that Mike Portnoy said that the song was written just after he and JP got back from seeing Pantera. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me!
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I always thought that Mike Portnoy said that the song was written just after he and JP got back from seeing Pantera. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me!
I stand corrected! I re-watched the DVD and it was in fact a PANTERA concert that MP & JP went to see a week before recording sessions began. The first song recorded was The Glass Prison. MP said in the commentary that it was thrashy like Slayer and Megadeth. He mentions Seasons In the Abyss too. I guess I got confused and my memory isn't what it used to be (having not seen the DVD in years).
Anyways, carry on. :tup
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Wow. 16 years. I was at the first show at BB Kings in 2002. The new songs then were amazing to hear. What a great gig. 6DoIT has aged well for me. I still think the radio edits of Blind Faith and Misunderstood are better than the album versions, but I really enjoy the album regardless.
My favorites remain The Great Debate, About to Crash/About to Crash (reprise), and The Test That Stumped Them All, but I really enjoy the record, with the possible exception of Disappear and Goodnight Kiss. I wasn't a big fan of how those turned out.
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I was listening to Misunderstood while walking earlier, and it still has that je ne sais quoi to it, probably more so than any other DT song. Particularly the entire "second verse" section, with the little reverse bits in the background, and Portnoy's little rototom fills, Myung's bass, the snare hits echoing off in alternating stereo channels, then that little injection of feedback from Petrucci before the full band kicks in on the chorus.
Most DT songs you "get used to", in a sense. Misunderstood still holds some of that "shock value" (for want of a better term) for me, some 8 years after first hearing it. And we haven't even dealt with that mindbending coda. A song that leaves me in awe.
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There have been very good DT albums after 6DOIT, but for me it is part of the SFAM-6DOIT zenith that was never achieved afterwards. Especially CD1 has such awesome songs on it, like Misunderstood.
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Six Degrees was the first Dream Theater album I bought as a fan anticipating a new album coming out. Easily my favorite DT album of the 2000s & 2010s.
Edit: I've always disliked the sound clips in The Great Debate. That dislike has grown into borderline hatred.
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Edit: I've always disliked the sound clips in The Great Debate. That dislike has grown into borderline hatred.
I think they help a lot to set the mood of the track, they work well for that.
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I was a DTIFC member at the time, and got the special fan club edition of an advance preview cd, aka Four Degrees of Radio Edits. And personally I like both the radio edited versions of Misunderstood and Blind Faith much better than the album versions.