DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site

General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: XJDenton on December 13, 2017, 04:06:08 PM

Title: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: XJDenton on December 13, 2017, 04:06:08 PM
Old thread was over 150 pages, and with the new film out it seems like a good place to start a new one.

Old one here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=2459.0
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: XJDenton on December 13, 2017, 04:59:41 PM
So, on topic. Saw the film tonight. A lot different to what I was expecting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 13, 2017, 05:18:17 PM
Try not to chalk up too many pages till Monday when I see it guys, ok?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 13, 2017, 05:54:00 PM
Different is good in my books. 24 hrs to go. Don't think I've waited for a movie with so much anticipation in forever.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 13, 2017, 11:45:54 PM
I'm starting to like The Last Jedi more and more, as i'm going through it in my head.

I't cannot be overstated how different and unexpected this is!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 14, 2017, 02:44:07 AM
As a last minute decision I went to the midnight showing last night.

I'm sorry to say that it was a disappointment for me.  :'( Maybe my expectations were unrealistic going in, but for me it didn't live up to the hype. There were too many moments that were so jarring that they took me out of the movie.

I'll say more when others get a chance to watch it and weigh in here..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 14, 2017, 04:28:00 AM
What an odd film.  On one side it's not what I expected at all....yet depict a lot of things happening (it's a very busy film) nothing much actually happens.   I'd say the big questions we had from 'The Force Awakens' mostly remain unanswered (or in one case, dismissed rather than answered!), and this films asks a couple of new ones.  Anyone expecting a film darker in tone probably won't be happy - there is a lot of slapstick in this film (tonally I actually got a Marvel vibe).

At the end I feel it's a bit of a placeholder, albeit a interesting placeholder, happy to stall the story for the 3rd part.   Not as enjoyable as 'Force Awakens' for me. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 14, 2017, 04:53:20 AM
It is a weird movie, that's for sure!

But, i'm finding myself enjoying it more and more as i think about it. It throws a curveball to the Star Wars fans and puts them out of their comfort zone. And i like that!

I enjoyed the central themes of the film, but let's not go to the spoilers just yet! It doesn't open in the America until tomorrow, correct?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 14, 2017, 05:13:25 AM
Okay, hold on, can we just talk about how freakin' good this movie was? I just came back from seeing it, & honestly, (while I'm by no means one to judge the accurate quality of a film), the level of tension I felt in this movie rivaled that of when I saw Empire for the first time. I'll admit I went in with very little hype (I've ignored most of the press surrounding the movie) & I'm by no means a die-hard Star Wars fan, but I think this movie delivered in every front it could've for me & it's hard to say I've ever been more exhilarated by a Star Wars movie in my life (again, besides maybe Empire).  :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

So anyway, what'd you guys think of it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 14, 2017, 05:43:09 AM


So anyway, what'd you guys think of it?

As my previous post.  I think I'd give it a 6/10 - It was interesting and fun but ultimately didn't really do much, and the slapstick was over the top - then there is Leia's space Mary Poppins sequence that is probably the worse Star Wars moment since that conversation about sand.   Also there were a couple of unexpected moments, that I didn't see coming - but actually felt flat.

Not sure if we are doing spoilers in here or not....but to be safe.

Snoke - really, that's it?  and Luke is just totally wasted, his hologram fight/death is a massive WTF moment.

I get the feeling it's going to be a very marmite film with the real hardcore fans.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 14, 2017, 06:26:11 AM


So anyway, what'd you guys think of it?

As my previous post.  I think I'd give it a 6/10 - It was interesting and fun but ultimately didn't really do much, and the slapstick was over the top - then there is Leia's space Mary Poppins sequence that is probably the worse Star Wars moment since that conversation about sand.   Also there were a couple of unexpected moments, that I didn't see coming - but actually felt flat.

Not sure if we are doing spoilers in here or not....but to be safe.

Snoke - really, that's it?  and Luke is just totally wasted, his hologram fight/death is a massive WTF moment.

I get the feeling it's going to be a very marmite film with the real hardcore fans.

I'll respond to in tiny-text mode because I don't think the thread's spoiler-ready yet,

Honestly I wasn't too bothered by Leia's space-force-thing scene, but I can see why some others may find it odd (it was certainly paced weirdly). & to be honest, I thought Luke's final few scenes were some of the highlights. Yeah, I'll admit it was really weird seeing him survive the full onslaught empty handed (hell, I think even the movie itself made fun of it), but I think when that twist that it was a spirit was finally revealed, it sort of gave a last "ohhh shit what a twist" moment of the film while his actual death at the end still gave closure to the whole "wtf why isn't he dead" mentality that enters your mind when you first watch the scenes. Plus I feel like part of it was in response to people calling Rey overpowered in ep 7, where this time when a character seemed to have what seemed like the ultimate overpowered moment, it still resolves with the closure of knowing that that's all he could save within himself & that we know he was able to push himself to the limit to save everyone at the end.

As for Snoke, yeah, that was totally a shock, but I never felt it as a "really? that's it?" moment because of how much buildup was put into that scene. I feel like it was just the right amount where you knew something big was about to happen but there weren't quite enough clues to make it totally obvious. Plus with all that happening & with the "holyshititssilentandtheresanexplosionandalaserwentthroughtheshipohmygod" part afterwards, I honestly felt like it was the true climax of the movie, which is the main criticism I'll give it - it feels like the part around the 2hr mark is the overall climax part of the film &
 the continuance on from that point had to do a lot to get me back into again. But like I said, it was definitely a satisfying set of events once it picked up again.

Okay I'll stop gushing about this movie, but you get the point, I really liked it & I didn't feel like the flaws were as pronounced as I'm sure some fans will make them out to be (not that there's anything wrong with that, they just didn't bother me as much personally).


So yeah  :corn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 14, 2017, 06:31:28 AM
I totally agree, soupy. I said to the guys in work this morning it was a 6/10 as well.

That amount of slapstick humour has no place in a Star Wars movie, in my view. The odd moment, yes ok, but this was far too much. I was cringing within the first 5 mins at a particular thing.

There were good points too, but overall I'd say that for me at least, it's worse that TFA.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2017, 06:43:16 AM
SPOILERS BECAUSE FUCK SMALL FONT AND IF YOU'RE COMING INTO A THREAD CALLED THE LAST JEDI AND GET MAD ABOUT SPOILERS IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT :biggrin:



I thought it was ok. Story-wise, I sorta don't feel it justified the run time, but on the other hand, it didn't feel bloated at all and was well paced throughout, so I guess it was fine.
The movie definitely had unexpected turns, but I'm not sure how I feel about some of those. The stuff with Snoke, and Rey's past/lineage felt like they undermined what was set up in TFA (unless that was a swerve for now), and it didn't set up enough of its own points imo. Also, the humour was very oddly placed and for me hurt many if not most scenes, at least in the first 2/3 of the film. Every scene you knew they would deflate the moment with some predictable sitcom humour. After the start with Hux, I got this sinking feeling with Rey/Luke meeting that they'd do something similarly silly, then when the music stopped I knew it was coming, and then he just tosses the lightsabre. I actually groaned out loud there. Also it again undermined TFA. Not that I was in love with TFA, but I think they hurt the trilogy with some of their choices. I feel like the humour got wedged in there to make it more family friendly, but I found it too jarring. Star Wars should be fun, but there's also a time and a place for it. Too many scenes had that obvious joke setup and instant predictable payoff.

On the plus side, the Porgs were fine, and used fairly well as comic relief. I liked how much the resistance took a beating, and how Poe learned from it. The reunion between Luke and Leia was touching especially in light of Carrie Fisher's death. I can see why they didn't make any changes to kill her off in this movie, given Luke's ending. Yoda's cameo was fun. Nice to see the classic puppet look and movement.

Overall, I definitely enjoyed it, but I didn't love it. I'd give it 6 or 7/10, depending on how generous I'm feeling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 14, 2017, 07:14:27 AM
Full spoiler mode ahead, click away if have not seen it!

As i said, i like it more as i think about it!

One of the things that i enjoyed so much in this film, was the theme of heroes and family.

Two years people have been speculating about Rey's parentage, how can she be so powerful? She must be related to this or that. In the end, it didn't matter where she came from. She came from nothing, her parents were abusive drunks who sold her to that junk dealer for some gambling money! She ended up becoming The Last Jedi.

Rose also comes from nothing, yet she also becomes a hero in the end after saving Finn! That slave boy on the casino planet also can become a hero one day, after being inspired by Rose.

It doesn't matter where you come from, everyone can be a hero! Whether it be Rey, Rose or that boy in the stables at the end..

Movie isn't perfect but i loved that subtle theme that ran across the film!

Film is 8/10 for me at the moment.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 14, 2017, 08:11:24 AM
**Spoilers**

I agree a lot about many moments being jarring and taking me out of the moment. The lightsaber toss was really annoying actually, it totally undermined TFA.

This was the message I sent my friend after seeing it this morning:

Yea, some of the comedy missed the mark. Try as I might, I can't really like Poe as a character. You are spot on with Kylo Ren and his development. The scene with Smoke dying was also awesome. Bit of an anticlimax in regards to building Snoke up to be the main villain! Some of the plot was daft though. Like the slow chase as the resistance ship runs outta fuel, really lame. LOVED the Yoda force ghost scene, they fucking nailed it! Also loved a few of the call backs, like the Falcon going through the underground cave mimicking the death star run in RotJ (including the music) and the final scene with Luke calling back to the Tatooine scene in A New Hope where he's staring at the two suns 😍 biggest 'WTF' though was Leia being some sort of fucking God, where she can survive in space and that bullshit. It was ridiculous and NOT Star Wars! Just because you are a force user it doesn't mean that you can breathe in space and your body won't die from freezing temperatures. You are still a mortal!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 14, 2017, 08:26:27 AM
I'm glad they didn't make Rey related to the Skywalker line in any way. I think that would have been too obvious.

One of the things that i enjoyed so much in this film, was the theme of heroes and family.

Two years people have been speculating about Rey's parentage, how can she be so powerful? She must be related to this or that. In the end, it didn't matter where she came from. She came from nothing, her parents were abusive drunks who sold her to that junk dealer for some gambling money! She ended up becoming The Last Jedi.

Rose also comes from nothing, yet she also becomes a hero in the end after saving Finn! That slave boy on the casino planet also can become a hero one day, after being inspired by Rose.

It doesn't matter where you come from, everyone can be a hero! Whether it be Rey, Rose or that boy in the stables at the end..

I hear what you're saying, and I did like the Rose character, her link to her sister on the bomber, and her rescue of Finn. I think that was fine, and even inspiring the young boy. But, showing the boy using the force with the broom was a step too far. I think it's fine to say that everyone can be a hero in their own way, but it seemed to me like they were implying that anyone can be a Jedi, and I'd have a problem with that.

Now that we're not caring about spoilers, some more in-depth thoughts:

What I liked


What I didn't like


What I'm on the fence about
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gborland on December 14, 2017, 10:41:01 AM
I did not like that stupid pointless diversion in the middle. Casino and horse racing? Fuck off. Also the final Oliver Twist scene: this is supposed to be fucking Star Wars. Did we not learn from The Phantom Menace that kids in Star Wars just DOES NOT WORK?

Honestly they could have cut 30 minutes out of the middle and it would have been a better film.

I did like some of it, though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 14, 2017, 10:42:13 AM
Since I won't see it til Christmas and I'm not deeply invested in Star Wars hype, I spoiled some big points of this movie for me. I really hope it's more entertaining than what I'm reading, because this sounds like it's near prequel levels of disaster for some characters and the lore.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 14, 2017, 05:40:11 PM
***spoilers***

One thing I also noticed was that I found Rose's character a lot more interesting than the main 3, despite this being (afaik) her debut. It's a real shame they killed her off near the end because I was honestly looking forward to her character developing further.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on December 14, 2017, 11:49:58 PM
It’s going to be really interesting to see what happens from here, because Kathleen Kennedy implied episode 9 was suppose to be, out of the original cast, Leia’s time to shine. This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I rather have a recast than any CGI make up. Carrie will always be our Princess, no matter what.

I’m still digesting this film...i need a another viewing. There were a lot of moments I loved, and a few that I didn’t care about....

And everyone’s Snoke theory did indeed, suck.

And I think Kylo was toying with Rey about her lineage.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 14, 2017, 11:55:03 PM
I'm going for round.2 with The Last Jedi on Monday!

I love that this is becoming a controversial film!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 15, 2017, 12:21:40 AM
As I posted elsewhere, I thoroughly enjoyed it, but then again I'm a total sucker for SW films. I even liked TFA man.


Best parts- I actually was all for the whole development of Kylo killing Snoke to become the supreme master, and immediately trying to get Rey as his apprentice, thought that was a very interesting twist that made this trilogy it's own. Visuals were outstanding, highlights being the salt planet with the red dirt underneath, and when they nailed Snoke's ship, that was fucking cool as hell. (really liked how they killed the sound so you can hear all the peeps in the theater going "Holy shit" and "fuck yeah!!!"). Rose's character was awesome, and she had the best line in the movie ("Not about destroying those you hate, but saving those you love...").

Bad Parts- I agree with the humor, trying to hard in all the wrong places, especially with Luke, he's way to flippant for someone with that type of baggage to carry, that was a blown opportunity for a real emotional redemption. Finn in the leaking water suit was painful to watch, can't believe the director watched that again and said "yup, that's a keeper...". And yeah, Leah should never had made it out of outer space, that was just lame, they surely could've written that one better.


And anyone who didn't like the Porgs has no soul. :heart
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 15, 2017, 01:49:17 AM
I'll be seeing it again next Saturday, so it will be interesting to see if my opinions soften on it.

The porgs were fine, and played such a small part anyway that it didn't really matter. Chewy sweeping the porg from the console of the Falcon was more like classic SW humour to me. Just simple beats that temporarily relieve the tension of a scene. Not this hipster humour

The part where Chewy is about to tuck into a delicious looking roast dinner, and one of the porgs is looking on as if it's some sort of close family relation, that was ok, but just was dragged out too long and ruined the moment. Anyway, would Chewy not prefer his meat raw, like in ROTJ where they end up trapped in the cargo net?

My thought for this morning is: space bombers dropping bombs above their target in zero gravity? Maybe I'm overthinking this..  :lol

I'm glad others enjoyed it and I don't meant to spoil it for anyone. Each to their own and all that..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 15, 2017, 02:54:52 AM
Lot of negativity on the net this morning regarding this film - those 'Disney buys positive reviews' comments cropping up again  :corn  ::)

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: XJDenton on December 15, 2017, 03:31:47 AM
My thought for this morning is: space bombers dropping bombs above their target in zero gravity? Maybe I'm overthinking this..  :lol

Star war space battles have always played out more like naval battles than actual space battles, and have priorities visual clarity (at least if you ignore the prequels) over realistic physics and tactics.

The more I think over this film, the more and more I like the fact it took the lore in unexpected directions. There are some choices I wouldn't have made but overall I think its quite a strong addition, although I can understand why some hardcore fans might dislike it.

That being said :

Jesus christ that hyperdrive suicide ramming scene was awesome. Possibly one of the best moments in star wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 15, 2017, 03:36:12 AM
That bit bothered me a bit too, and the girl not being sucked out of the ship along with the bombs (I assume they don't have the shieldy things?).
But it's plausible that the bombs had some limited propulsion to get them up to speed? (but not enough for mid-space maneuvering to change trajectory)
The thing with Leia coming back from space via the force was the bigger issue for me. I think the force in general was used in some weird ways imo. I don't know how the EU treated this stuff, but the force has just become a story shortcut.

Yes, the ram was awesome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: XJDenton on December 15, 2017, 03:38:25 AM
See, that didn't bother me at all. It's essentially just a force pull, but pulling a massive object in zero-G, which would make you move.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 15, 2017, 03:43:05 AM
Agreed on the ramming thing. The fact that they cut the sound completely made it all the more powerful.

I liked the Holdo character. I just wish there was a little more made of the conflict between her and Poe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 15, 2017, 04:00:12 AM
It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum! I don't mind (too much) some of the other force stuff that we saw in this movie, that had never been part of Star Wars lore. But the Leia thing infuriates me. She's not even a strong force user (not that I think anyone should be able to do what she did). She was sucked out into space and then unconscious! Even if you could do something to survive in space using the force (which I call bullshit on) she was unconscious! It make it look more like there was divine intervention or some bullshit. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. Luke, Vader, the emperor, they were all mortal men who could be killed like any other. If you are going to make force users more like gods then I'll be pissed off with where they take the films next!

Rant over.......for now
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 15, 2017, 04:03:08 AM
It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum! I don't mind (too much) some of the other force stuff that we saw in this movie, that had never been part of Star Wars lore. But the Leia thing infuriates me. She's not even a strong force user (not that I think anyone should be able to do what she did). She was sucked out into space and then unconscious! Even if you could do something to survive in space using the force (which I call bullshit on) she was unconscious! It make it look more like there was divine intervention or some bullshit. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. Luke, Vader, the emperor, they were all mortal men who could be killed like any other. If you are going to make force users more like gods then I'll be pissed off with where they take the films next!

Rant over.......for now

Basically that was my issue. The move itself wasn't a problem, it was the circumstances of being pulled out into space and unconscious/dead, and Leia not being a force user as far as we've been shown, just force sensitive.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 15, 2017, 04:28:32 AM
It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum! I don't mind (too much) some of the other force stuff that we saw in this movie, that had never been part of Star Wars lore. But the Leia thing infuriates me. She's not even a strong force user (not that I think anyone should be able to do what she did). She was sucked out into space and then unconscious! Even if you could do something to survive in space using the force (which I call bullshit on) she was unconscious! It make it look more like there was divine intervention or some bullshit. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. Luke, Vader, the emperor, they were all mortal men who could be killed like any other. If you are going to make force users more like gods then I'll be pissed off with where they take the films next!

Rant over.......for now

Basically that was my issue. The move itself wasn't a problem, it was the circumstances of being pulled out into space and unconscious/dead, and Leia not being a force user as far as we've been shown, just force sensitive.

Good point. I'm pretty sure in the EU she trained and was able to use the force but in the films she's only ever been shown to be force sensitive. That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it. Actually Rey was the first to just DO stuff in TFA, with no training. But I didn't mind that as much as she was shown to be way stronger than any other untrained force user. Plus the force had awoken in her, she was special (potentially the real chosen one to bring balance to the force). Unless this kid is in the next film (and a total badass) this doesn't sit well with me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 15, 2017, 04:37:44 AM
I don't really care for any of the EU stuff, but agree about the kid with the broom thing. Luke and even Anakin had to be trained to tap into the force, and it seemed like very few people could actually do it.

Implying that anyone can be a Jedi kinda weakens the whole purpose of the Jedi order and religion.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 15, 2017, 05:07:07 AM
That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it.

I mean, unless I remember it wrong, the only thing the kid did was hold up a broom. Last I checked, you don't need the force to do that  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 15, 2017, 07:21:35 AM
Saw it last night and LOVED it! Easily the best Star Wars films since Empire and honestly it might end up being my new favorite. I definitely plan on seeing it again. I didn't mind the humor and didn't find it forced at all. Poe chiding Hux was a stalling maneuver so there was an actual reason for him doing that. I initially felt a little let down about Rey's parents but the more I think about it I think it was the right choice and goes a long with the theme of the film. I'll admit that the Leigh space scene threw me, but maybe in the face of death she was able to tap into the force. I also had no problem with Luke tossing the light saber. 

Now for the double edged sword. I think killing Snoke was an amazing move and totally unexpected and following fight with Rey/Kylo vs. Snokes gaurds was fantastic. With that being said who the hell was Snoke? I think that is really the only unanswered question from episode 7 so I really hope that they dive into that in episode 9. My theory is that Sidious cloned himself and that Snoke will be back again as another clone in 9. We'll see.

Any predictions for Episode 9? All signs point that it will be the conclusion of the Skywalker Saga and all future films will be focused on something else. I'm assuming the remaining rebels take down the first order, rey builds a new jedi temple since the texts survived and trains a new generation of Jedi. I'm also assuming that there will be a pretty decent time jump between 8 & 9.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on December 15, 2017, 08:28:54 AM
Spoilers (obviously)


Disappointed here.  Maybe after seeing it again I'll warm up to it a bit.  The weird "twists" and Leia surviving in space, etc. didn't bother me, nor did the humor.  I felt the movie was missing "something" that every other Star Wars movie had.  No interesting back stories (except for the Luke/Kylo thing, but I don't know that I even really "buy" that as an "oh that makes sense" thing).  One of my favorite things in Star Wars is the bad guys and how they turn evil but now it turns out that Snoke has no back story and was beaten by someone who couldn't even beat someone who had no force related training...

All other Star Wars movies make you think, make you wonder about characters and where they're from, how they came to be who they are, etc.  This one kind of just was a glimpse into a moment of time...  I thought the ending was cheesy as hell also, "oh, it's not about just Jedi, let's just show one random kid and imply that anyone can feel the force".  I know I'm speculating, maybe he didn't even have force sensibilities and maybe was just inspired by the resistance ring.

I did however, like the Yoda part, I thought that part was written and done well.  They still didn't develop Rey's character very well I think either.  Is she wholly good?  Somewhere between?  What motivates her?  We know far more about Kylo than we do Rey.  IMO at least.

<edit> One more thing.  The ending may as well have been the ending to Episode 9.  It feels "over", there's no suspense left or things that make you excited for the next film.  It feels like it may as well have been a good ending for a trilogy or stand alone film.  Again, just my opinion and personal feelings.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 15, 2017, 08:43:02 AM
Saw it last night and I liked the movie. I'd have liked to seen a bit less of the casino excursion and more of Luke/Rey 'training' or whatever it was she was doing with him. I don't think you can call it outright training.....and they cleverly covered that hole in her abilities by having Yoda tell Luke there was nothing in the books in the temple that wasn't already in Rey.

The Leah space force deal was just dumb though. Seriously, the film would be that much better had that scene never happened...and I'm confused as to how that even made it past the 'I have an idea' part of brainstorming a sequence. It'd have been better had they blown the bridge up and she'd have just been severely injured that way. Just a silly story point overall.

I like the fact they didn't try to tie Rey to Obi Wan or Luke or anyone we know. It'd have been a tough story to tell and they'd have tied their hands with any future shoot off stories had it been someone 'close' to the main characters or original cast. It didn't bother me that Rey is a random person chosen by the Force yet I have a feeling Kylo was lying to her to get her to side with him and that her parentage will probably be more significant than they let on.

I was however bummed we didn't get any answer as to who Snoke was or how he was able to have been around and seen so much and be so powerful. I loved the death scene of his and fight....it was awesome and you could feel it coming....but to not have gotten a clue as to his origin was a bummer. Maybe they'll address it in the next film.

I would have liked to have seen Luke in a realistic battle and show off some major Jedi skills but I guess the skill he demonstrated was the ultimate top tier skill a Jedi can learn. Having him choose to face down Ren in that fashion to prove a point to him and then choose to transcend his physical body and join the ranks of Yoda and Obi Wan seemed fitting. Just wish they'd have spent that half hour of the casino side show on Luke rather than some horses and stable boys if that was the case. I felt like he wasn't given a 'proper' send off.

Anyone else notice that the scene in the Falcon at the end when Finn opened a drawer that all the old Jedi manuals and books were stacked in it? They were all in there so apparently Rey must have taken them without Luke knowing.

Is it possible that Luke knew Rey would have to free the resistance by lifting all the rocks when he told her that knowing the Force is more than lifting Rocks? I think that was intentional and could have shown Luke had forseen it.

Both Hux and Ren botched their chances at crushing the Rebels and ending it all due to their arrogance. Hux by ignoring the turning ship and focusing on the escape pods and Ren by focusing solely on Luke.

I guess the Red Guards were the Knights of Ren....the student Ren had enlisted from Luke's temple? If so, then Ren and Rey have wiped them out.

I just assumed the bombs were magnetized and was why they dropped instead of floating off.

I doubt that's the last you'll see of Benicio Del Torro's character. He's like a Choatic Nuetral Han Solo.


All in all I'd say 7/10 for me. I'm gonna see it again sunday with the kiddos, that'll allow me to take a closer listen and look at some sections. But, I wasn't floored by the movie but certainly wasn't disappointed. Solid SW movie in my eyes and leagues better than any of the prequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 15, 2017, 10:34:10 AM
I agree completely on that last part. I wanted an ending that'd leave me burning in suspense for two years, without any hole for the resistance. Maybe somewhere around where the cannon was blowing through the door, a truly hopeless scenario.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 15, 2017, 11:04:50 AM
Saw it last night as well and man, when everyone said it was really different, they were right. The more I think of this movie the more I love it and I think will be one of the best in the series for me. I think I like it more than Force Awakens already. I'd say it's a 9/10 right now.

Going to see it again for sure. The only rant I have right now is against the 3D projectionist who didn't adjust the brightness, things were so dark in some scenes that I couldn't see the faces clearly. I'm never seeing any more movies in 3D again and my friend apparently bought it by mistake thinking they were all regular shows.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MetalJunkie on December 15, 2017, 11:05:08 AM
Only thing I didn't really like was Leia Supermanning through space. Fucking. Dumb. I'm Carrie Poppins, y'all!
Everything else I could deal with.

Yoda
The Leia recording
Kylo/Rey fight
Luke wtfpwning at the end

all gave me raging boners.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 15, 2017, 12:22:07 PM
I think this movie felt more like Star Wars movie than anything since Empire. It checked all of the boxes for me. And while it wasn't a cliffhanger like the end of TFA, I really have no idea what the final film is going to be. My biggest disappointment is not knowing who the hell Snoke is. I really hope that is explained.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 15, 2017, 12:49:52 PM
Thought the movie as a bloated mess with far too much unnecessary wank and drawn out pointless plot points.

That said, there were still amazing things that happened in the movie. If it we're trimmed down to half the length, I'm sure it could've been as strong as VII. For now I give it like 5/10.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 15, 2017, 01:48:29 PM
Leia flying through space could have been little less cheesy, but i'm fine with it.

I'm predicting that the next movie takes place many years after The Last Jedi. Leia has died of old age. Rey has to jumpstart the new jedi order, she did steal the old jedi books after all. And everyone has to band together to defeat the Emperor Ben, and his new First Order/Empire.

I also have a sneaking feeling that Snoke is not done somehow. Maybe he comes back as a evil force ghost, or something...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 15, 2017, 03:09:17 PM
@ people saying the ending was too satisfying

Yeah, I'll honestly agree with this. I kept thinking they were going to leave a cliffhanger where Kylo & Ren were face to face, but then again that would've left everyone confused about how he survive everything that was fired at him so idk. Like I said, I loved the movie, but there was some points where it felt like it could've ended but kept going anyway.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 15, 2017, 03:51:37 PM
It really felt like they didn't know how to end the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 15, 2017, 05:27:32 PM
That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it.

I mean, unless I remember it wrong, the only thing the kid did was hold up a broom. Last I checked, you don't need the force to do that  :lol

No, as he walked out he held his hand out and the broom came to him, he force grabbed it.

About Rey's lineage, although there is a possibility that Kylo was right that her parents were nobodies, there's a greater chance he was fucking with her. He wanted her to join him, what better way than to make her feel like he was the only one there for her.

Only thing I didn't really like was Leia Supermanning through space. Fucking. Dumb. I'm Carrie Poppins, y'all!

Totally this. I just felt there was absolutely zero need for this scene to happen!

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 15, 2017, 05:50:38 PM
 I can’t believe any of you are buying into Kylo Ren’s version of Rai’s parentage. To me, it IMMEDIATELY seemed like a ploy. The first thing any abuser will do to gain control is to destroy  your entire history to make you think that they are the only things in your life.  He was trying to beat her down emotionally so that she would feel worthless without him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 15, 2017, 06:05:29 PM
It really felt like they didn't know how to end the movie.

Yeah, it almost seemed like they didn't want to leave any loose ends,yet the best part of epV was that big ass loose end of Vader /father.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on December 15, 2017, 11:07:26 PM
I can’t believe any of you are buying into Kylo Ren’s version of Rai’s parentage. To me, it IMMEDIATELY seemed like a ploy. The first thing any abuser will do to gain control is to destroy  your entire history to make you think that they are the only things in your life.  He was trying to beat her down emotionally so that she would feel worthless without him.

100%
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 16, 2017, 02:07:07 AM
Do we honestly NEED for Rey to be a Skywalker or Kenobi though? I thought what we got on her parents was satisfying in its own right. Sure, I won't lie, if it was revealed that she was a Kenobi I probably would have gone crazy and loved that too, but I don't mind her coming from just a normal lineage.

Overall I thought TLJ was really great, some minor issues (like that casino subplot) but overall really good. Not sure if I liked it as much as TFA, but still a really great movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 02:26:06 AM
Do we honestly NEED for Rey to be a Skywalker or Kenobi though? I thought what we got on her parents was satisfying in its own right. Sure, I won't lie, if it was revealed that she was a Kenobi I probably would have gone crazy and loved that too, but I don't mind her coming from just a normal lineage.

I'm not keen on her being related to Skywalker/Kenobi either, but with the buildup and hype surrounding her past, as well as how insanely quick she has taken to using the Force and being drawn to the saber etc, the current explanation of being the daughter of some random deadbeats isn't satisfying imo.
I'd like there to be a better backstory revealed in the next movie, hopefully something that isn't so obvious as long lost second cousin of Obi-wan though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 16, 2017, 05:44:35 AM
What an odd film. I really enjoyed watching it, but I also left the theater thoroughly baffled by what I saw. Need to see again. Couldn’t rate right now if I tried.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 16, 2017, 06:44:16 AM
The movie took some risks and deserves a lot of praise for that. There were issues but I feel like overall it worked pretty well. A lot of criticisms I see are rooted in what people expected VS what they got, and to me it's always a poor excuse to be mad at something because it wasn't what you thought in your head going into it. A good example was Luke. There was plenty of people who probably expected this Vader-hallway scene of Luke completely dominating 20-30 first order guys and coming in to rescue Rey against Ren/Snoke, instead we got a scene reminiscent of Obi-Wan vs Vader in a New Hope where the duel isn't about winning or losing but rather the sacrifice means something. Some people will be mad because Luke is gone and won't be there again to have that "badass moment", but in the context of the film I thought his exit worked and he filled the role that the movie needed him to fill.

There's a lot of things you can dissect and point out, for example what happened with C3PO's red arm? And I thought it was weird how TLJ didn't seem to care much about certain things set up as big mysteries in TFA (Rey's parents, the origin/identity of Snoke, the other Knights of Ren) and some were brushed over, but I also feel like Episode 9 might help to explain things. Hard to get the full picture without the final piece. Leia floating through space like Superman didn't work for me and I thought the whole Casino subplot could have been cut out, but other than that there were some excellent scenes in here, and overall the movie was really great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 07:12:09 AM
I see a lot of people defending the criticism of it just not being what people expected, but I haven't actually personally seen many criticize it for that at all.

The problem for me was more with how they told that story rather than the story they chose, and a lot of the details just not being consistent with what is established, and not capitalizing on what TFA set up, but instead undoing it. And the humour was added to the film in a way that wasn't natural, and hurt so many important moments that should have been serious. It took me out of the film. When a film makes me groan out loud within the first ten minutes, it's a bad sign.

I think the overall plot was just fine, and there were a lot of good scenes, but I don't think they knew how to tell this story most effectively and got some details very wrong for the bigger picture imo. Maybe it was too many cooks in the kitchen trying to appeal to the mass audience, or maybe it didn't quite fit Rian Johnson. TFA and Rogue One were both very enjoyable films for me, but this movie makes me concerned for the franchise going forward, and I'm not even a SW fanatic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on December 16, 2017, 08:22:17 AM
I agree with so much of what I read in this thread but a couple of things that kind of irked me:

The CGI - Snoke was very cheesy looking. A main character should be more realistic, the CGI made him a joke. All of the flying around looked corny too. Princess Leia flying through space like the wicked witch was silly. Yoda looked cheap too. I felt like the CGI was better in the force awakens.

You can tell the Disney execs had their hands in this movie far too much.

In general the movie could have cut the fat and been a deeper and darker film if it had focused more on the characters.

One last thing, the ending was unnecessary even if they are using it as a setup for future story lines, it felt out of place and ruined the mood. It was good but not great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 08:25:13 AM
One last thing, the ending was unnecessary even if they are using it as a setup for future story lines, it felt out of place and ruined the mood. It was good but not great.

I didn't like that either. It felt kinda tacked on to end it on a more positive note perhaps. And to place it at such a point in the film, it better be really important, but it didn't feel like it was. Maybe they'll bring it back at some point, but I don't feel like it's meant to have any bearing on IX.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 16, 2017, 08:34:07 AM
Saw it yesterday and I liked it. It did not live up to my wildest hopes and dreams which has left me feeling a little disappointed, but it was extremely unlikely to do that. It had me on the edge of my seal for the last third of the movie or so, which was good. I plan on seeing it again in the next couple weeks.

The issues I had while watching it:
The caretakers and the milking seal things were completely unnecessary.
Leia should have died in space or never gotten sucked out in the first place, that super-Leia thing was stupid.
The scene with Maz was stupid and unnecessary.
The casino part dragged a bit and really could have been left out altogether.
I wish they would have used Phasma better.

Issues I've thought of since:
I really hope that both Snoke's and Rey's back stories don't get swept under the rug. I'm ok with one, but not both. You can't set something up like that in the first movie and then just brush it off as if it doesn't matter. I suspect Kylo wasn't being truthful with Rey.
Maybe it was tacky given Carrie Fisher's death to have Leia die, but I wish they would have had Leia do the suicide run instead of that new admiral. Then let her take Leia's place in Ep. 9.

Thoughts on Ep. 9:
I'm guessing they'll have several years in between 8 and 9 in order for the Resistance to grow again. They set up a younger generation of rebels, so they need to grow up to contribute.
I'm guessing Leia will have died off-screen during the in between time, but I'll be interested to see how they address it.
Luke will obviously come back as a force ghost to complete Rey's training.
I think one of two things will happen: Ben Solo is redeemed and comes to the light side or Rey somehow has Skywalker blood. I think Disney will continue on past Ep 9 and there needs to be a Skywalker in order to do that. They have stated explicitly that the main Saga is about the Skywalkers.
I'll be annoyed if they don't explain how Maz got Luke's lightsaber. They set that up and then had a dumb cameo basically of Maz in 8 so we don't forget about her.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 08:48:05 AM
Maybe it was tacky given Carrie Fisher's death to have Leia die, but I wish they would have had Leia do the suicide run instead of that new admiral. Then let her take Leia's place in Ep. 9.

I think it came down to a couple of reasons why they didn't go that route. First of all, having both Luke and Leia go in the same film might have been too bold a move. And secondly, they may have needed CGI to make such a change, and that might have seemed tacky with Carrie Fisher's death being relatively recent. I think it was a better tribute to her to leave her part in the movie intact, and plan it from day 1 in IX instead. I think they made the better choice here, although I wish they could have removed the being sucked out into space thing afterwards, because it felt a little cheap in hindsight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 16, 2017, 09:22:34 AM
I think the humor in the opening scene worked because that type of humor has already been established as being a part of Poe's character.  I.e....so, do you go first or do I talk first?   He just has that type of disarming snarkiness in tense situations.  It's a part of who he is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 09:35:26 AM
I think the humor in the opening scene worked because that type of humor has already been established as being a part of Poe's character.  I.e....so, do you go first or do I talk first?   He just has that type of disarming snarkiness in tense situations.  It's a part of who he is.

I agree it's part of who he is, and that he would try that in that situation, but on the other hand, I think the way Hux reacted to it was poor and damaged his character at an important point in the film, and I don't think it was something they should have opened with. Just imo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 16, 2017, 09:38:33 AM
I think the humor in the opening scene worked because that type of humor has already been established as being a part of Poe's character.  I.e....so, do you go first or do I talk first?   He just has that type of disarming snarkiness in tense situations.  It's a part of who he is.

That “who talks first?” bit bothered me in TFA as well, but here it was dialled up to 11 in that first scene. It just smacked of Buffy type humour rather than what we’re used to in SW. I’ve seen it described as “hashtag humour”, which is probably a good description.

I’m probably too old to appreciate it.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 16, 2017, 09:42:12 AM
In TFA the same gag worked much better because Kylo was still intimidating in that scene. He still had all the power. He kept his composure and ignored him. Poe's snark was his way of rebelling and giving him the middle finger.

In TLJ Hux was made out to be a weenie buffoon because of that. So it immediately took away all the tension and drama for me. He became like a silly person you couldn't take seriously.

So agreed. The joke fell flat for me, not because of Poe's delivery but because of Hux's response. It actually would've worked better as a completely serious scene imo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 16, 2017, 10:09:39 AM
Hux always came across as a whiny little bitch to me anyway.  Even in TFA, he just reminded me of Rowan Atkinson's Black Adder character.   Or Rimmer from Red Dwarf.  Just a wimpy weasel who happened to get a promotion.   I thought him being bamboozled was perfect for his character, and Kylo making him his bitch at the end was particularly satisfying. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 16, 2017, 10:15:32 AM
I thought that opening scene worked well. It maybe drug on a hair too long, but I think it fit well with Poe's character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 10:15:52 AM
Hux always came across as a whiny little bitch to me anyway.  Even in TFA, he just reminded me of Rowan Atkinson's Black Adder character.   Or Rimmer from Red Dwarf.  Just a wimpy weasel who happened to get a promotion.   I thought him being bamboozled was perfect for his character, and Kylo making him his bitch at the end was particularly satisfying. 

That would be fine if he wasn't the leader pursuing our main heroes and a driving force behind the entire film. I think it diminished the seriousness of the situation.
I do agree it was fine from Poe's perspective though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 16, 2017, 10:50:58 AM
Yeah Hux is portrayed as a whiney child and so is Kylo....

So now our main villains are children? :/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on December 16, 2017, 11:01:09 AM
So Monday at work we were going to have some huge discussion about our theories on the movie and where we think the main story is headed.  Going to be a short discussion, TLJ didn't really leave any exciting things to think about. 

But that aside, I think once I see it again I'll warm up to it a bit.  Maybe I was expecting it to be too much like The Force Awakens, which I thought was amazing.  And I think episode 9 now has kind of a blank canvass where they can take that in almost any direction.  Based on how much I liked TFA I'm kind of glad JJ Abrams is behind Ep 9.  Maybe they'll give the interesting back stories that TLJ was missing. 

My biggest complaint is that Snoke kind of was nobody, you never learned anything about him.  I was so intrigued when he started talking about how he wanted to make Kylo the next Vader and then that conversation ended immediately and never went anywhere.  And I don't think enough of the new movie was about Rey if she's supposed to be part of the main story.  TLJ had too much time invested in all of the side stories instead.  Again, this is still just my first impression, I may change my views after seeing it again.  On the bright side, we paid to see it in 3d and the movie theater screwed up and played regular so we got free passes when we left.  So I'll use that to see it again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on December 16, 2017, 12:29:43 PM
Anyone else sad that Chewie has been rendered down to a mere stagnant character without Han?  :-[
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 16, 2017, 12:40:25 PM
In retrospect ... While I did enjoy the movie, I’m reflecting back now and I’m not sure I’m happy with how they handled Luke. I get how it fit into “failure being the best teacher...yada yada yada” But I still can’t picture him, even for a moment, contemplating the outright murder of his own nephew.

I can see why Mark had a problem with it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 16, 2017, 12:50:39 PM
Anyone else sad that Chewie has been rendered down to a mere stagnant character without Han?  :-[

Seems to me that they are building up Rey and Chewie to be the new Millenium Falcon duo! I liked their banter in this movie, i hope it is expanded in the next one!

In retrospect ... While I did enjoy the movie, I’m reflecting back now and I’m not sure I’m happy with how they handled Luke. I get how it fit into “failure being the best teacher...yada yada yada” But I still can’t picture him, even for a moment, contemplating the outright murder of his own nephew.

I can see why Mark had a problem with it.

I think he didn't want to end up like Obi Wan, being responsible for Vader. Kinda sad that, in that moment he realizes that he has gone to far, but it is already too late. Wheels are in motion, and he is responsible for creating another Vader

Rian Johnson has some serious balls, doing some of the things he does with this movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 16, 2017, 02:09:23 PM
In retrospect ... While I did enjoy the movie, I’m reflecting back now and I’m not sure I’m happy with how they handled Luke. I get how it fit into “failure being the best teacher...yada yada yada” But I still can’t picture him, even for a moment, contemplating the outright murder of his own nephew.

Well he did say when he explained that night to Rey that it was only a brief moment after he discovered just how far gone Ben was. I think it's fair to say that the fact he WAS his nephew was the only reason he hesitated and didn't kill him immediately.




I'm going to see it again tomorrow with the family, but the more I reflect on the movie the 'better' it sits with me. I still think the Leah space walk was utterly retarded and that excursion to find the code breaker wasn't needed....but other than that I'm pretty good with the rest of what went down.

I don't think the lineage theory that Ren told Rey was true....as has been mentioned it was a ploy by him to rope her in....AND I'm wondering whether or not Snoke stays dead. Meaning....his body was clearly mauled and wretched...dare I say pieced together and maybe even decaying.....who's to say he's really dead? Dude seemed to have next level powers by opening a bridge between Rey and Ren so perhaps it takes more than a slice from a light saber to beat the guy?

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on December 16, 2017, 02:13:11 PM
A buddy of mine brought up that in some of the EU, Luke became so powerful he was able to travel throughout the galaxy without a spaceship. I wonder if that Leia scene was a nod to that. Rian Johnson definitely followed all that EU, or Legends
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 16, 2017, 03:10:36 PM
So in a message to a friend this was my view on Luke's arc (And my disappointment in it):

If his death had 'saved' Kylo Ren from going completely to the dark side or had done the same for Rey then that would've been something. Nothing Luke did in the movie changed the path Kylo or Rey were on. He didn't even really give Rey any training. He sat on his island, refused to really get involved, caused a distraction. Then drifts off like he's fulfilled some higher purpose. It was a really shit end to the whole arc of his character throughout the whole saga.

It's not a justifiable end to Luke's character for me. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. I just don't feel Luke really did enough in this film. That's my feeling anyway.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on December 16, 2017, 04:21:02 PM
I honestly don't have a huge issue with the ending and what happened to Luke....  But when I realize that The Force Awakens, the whole plot revolved around finding Luke and the map to Luke (which I assumed he left at least partially with R2 in case of emergency?) I just think WTF? Did he leave a map to himself, or did he really want to disappear? 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 16, 2017, 05:16:16 PM
I see Luke's "death" being similar to Obi Wan's. I can't imagine that he won't be back to help train Rey in 9 as a force ghost. I was fully expecting him to say "If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" to Kylo when they were fighting before we realized he was a projection. I'm on the fence about whether that would have been a better end.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 16, 2017, 05:33:52 PM
I see Luke's "death" being similar to Obi Wan's. I can't imagine that he won't be back to help train Rey in 9 as a force ghost. I was fully expecting him to say "If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" to Kylo when they were fighting before we realized he was a projection. I'm on the fence about whether that would have been a better end.

I thought about that as it was happening....but I’m glad they didn’t. With as much call back as this trilogy has had, I think that would have been over the line.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 16, 2017, 09:10:48 PM
Overall, I loved this film.  It could be my favorite of the bunch, although it still has its newness going for it and giving it a probably unfair advantage.  I stayed spoiler-free, but had just heard vague rumblings about it being very different and about the humor being maybe a bit too much for a SW film, so I did have a bit of trepidation and had lowered my expectations going in.  Maybe that helped, but this movie was a complete home run for me. 

As others have pointed out, if there are things I have to point out that bothered me a bit, they would be the Leia space scene and the casino planet diversion.  But the Leia scene was...I guess not too bad.  And the casino planet, while completely unnecessary in and of itself, had a satisfying payoff at the end of the film, so that was cool. 

One other thing that bugged me a bit, and that I have NOT seen discussed is this:  How did Benicio Del Toro's character know about the escaping ships?  He was with Fin and Rose the whole time, and neither of them were privy to that.  So how did he know?  Was that explained and I just missed it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 09:29:06 PM
So in a message to a friend this was my view on Luke's arc (And my disappointment in it):

If his death had 'saved' Kylo Ren from going completely to the dark side or had done the same for Rey then that would've been something. Nothing Luke did in the movie changed the path Kylo or Rey were on. He didn't even really give Rey any training. He sat on his island, refused to really get involved, caused a distraction. Then drifts off like he's fulfilled some higher purpose. It was a really shit end to the whole arc of his character throughout the whole saga.

It's not a justifiable end to Luke's character for me. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. I just don't feel Luke really did enough in this film. That's my feeling anyway.

He sacrificed himself to save the resistance when they were about to be wiped out (never mind that the entire resistance after all this time is that small but whatever), also saving his sister. I also wish he did more in his final outing, but I don't mind how he went so much.

A lot of characters were under-used in this movie. Chewbacca did nothing much, C3PO and R2D2 were nothing but fan service (not too different to Rogue One or TFA). I think they've got too many characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: orcus116 on December 16, 2017, 09:39:27 PM
One other thing that bugged me a bit, and that I have NOT seen discussed is this:  How did Benicio Del Toro's character know about the escaping ships?  He was with Fin and Rose the whole time, and neither of them were privy to that.  So how did he know?  Was that explained and I just missed it?

Wasn't Poe saying something about it to Finn over the comm while his character was trying to open the door? That's where I figured it came up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 17, 2017, 07:42:59 AM
I think they've got too many characters.
I find myself agreeing with this. I was actually hoping they would pull a Game of Thrones and kill Fin and Rose on the First Order ship.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2017, 08:24:37 AM
I think they've got too many characters.
I find myself agreeing with this. I was actually hoping they would pull a Game of Thrones and kill Fin and Rose on the First Order ship.

That'd have been awesome. I like the Finn character but if he's only going to be used for silly little 'side' stories like that then might as well off the dude.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 17, 2017, 09:21:25 AM
I agree, I think having Finn killed by Snoke, Kylo or even Phasma would have been a bold move, and would have given extra motivation to Rey.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: orcus116 on December 17, 2017, 09:52:55 AM
Disney wouldn't want to have the PR outrage at a black lead dying while the white leads stayed alive despite it being a good move from a storyline standpoint.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pogoowner on December 17, 2017, 12:14:35 PM
I enjoyed the movie, but there are also a lot of things in the plot that I think make no sense whatsoever. They also could have cut pretty much that whole Casino planet storyline and the movie would've been better for it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2017, 12:23:51 PM
Disney wouldn't want to have the PR outrage at a black lead dying while the white leads stayed alive despite it being a good move from a storyline standpoint.

Yet it’s fine with the over the top ‘woman power’ theme of this movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: King Postwhore on December 17, 2017, 02:11:36 PM
What bosk1 said about the payoff at the end of the movie with the casino.   overall I really like the film could they tighten a few things up yep, but I still really enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 17, 2017, 03:41:30 PM
As I've been thinking about it that last couple of days, I'm liking it more and more. The issues are falling to the wayside of the things I liked. Honestly, the biggest reason I'm liking it a lot is that it was not what I expected. TFA was great, but it was exactly what i anticipated. TLJ was a complete break from that. It definitely had it's flaws though. I'm going to go see it again on a $5 Tuesday this week or next.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 17, 2017, 04:38:23 PM
It was pretty good. Not great. I'd give it a good 7/10 I guess.

Had some really great stuff, some of the best in the saga, honestly, but also had some of the worst stuff in the saga, including like 30 completely pointless minutes that did nothing at all.

Could have been a lot better, but had great moments and ideas. I definitely liked their ideas of the force a lot more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2017, 05:17:58 PM
Just got back from seeing this a second time and I have to be honest.....I REALLY like this movie. I think I was put off the first viewing because I had my own idea of what the movie 'should' be...especially concerning Luke and when it didn't meet that I was initially a bit disappointed.

But watching this again and taking it in I think this was a great film. Still don't like the Leah space flying scene but even the casino excursion was more tolerable the second time. One thing I paid close attention to this time was the murder of Snoke. And, if you listen to his monologue as Ren is gearing up to kill Rey Snoke is detailing bit by bit that he knows that Ren is about to kill him.

He says things like "I am in his mind" ... "I know his every thought"...."I can see him turning the saber"  as the light saber turns on his chair and then he says "and now I can see him activating the saber and killing his TRUE enemy"    I think Snoke knew and/or orchestrated that entire 'murder' for a purpose....what yet I don't know, but just as I don't think we've seen the last from Luke I think the same about Snoke. It could be the Dark Side version of Force Ghosts...who knows?

And, while I was initially disappointed with Luke's fate I think what they did in this movie was perfect. I wanted him to....like Zantera mentioned a page or two ago.....to have this Rouge One Vadar esk scene of just an ultimate battle showing off his massive Jedi skills. And, that's actually what they gave us. First, he connected to Leah I'm thinking to 'know' where to project himself....then he pulls of the greatest Jedi trick we've ever seen on film by battling someone from light years/star systems away.

Rain Johnson even gives you clues prior to that that he's not really there. Outside of the physical appearance change Johnson made a big deal in several scenes to show the red dirt below the salt in footprints...he did it several times including with Ren. But, he showed a couple close ups of Luke's feet in that battle that showed Luke not leaving any footprints...thought that was cool touch.

Anyway....I enjoyed this film greatly the second time....I'll probably go see it a couple more times in the theaters....definitely in IMAX.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: sneakyblueberry on December 17, 2017, 05:23:57 PM
He says things like "I am in his mind" ... "I know his every thought"...."I can see him turning the saber"  as the light saber turns on his chair and then he says "and now I can see him activating the saber and killing his TRUE enemy"    I think Snoke knew and/or orchestrated that entire 'murder' for a purpose....what yet I don't know, but just as I don't think we've seen the last from Luke I think the same about Snoke. It could be the Dark Side version of Force Ghosts...who knows?

Yeah definitely.  I think Snoke, like the Emperor in ROTJ, knew that Ren killing his master was exactly what he needed to kill the uncertainty in Ren ('strike me down with your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete').
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 17, 2017, 07:15:35 PM
Why is Hux in charge of anything? Dude seems like an idiot. I have no idea how he is in charge of the whole first order.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: King Postwhore on December 17, 2017, 07:18:12 PM
Why is Hux in charge of anything? Dude seems like an idiot. I have no idea how he is in charge of the whole first order.

His dad is Brenden Gleeson.  He has some pull. LOL
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2017, 08:24:33 PM
With Rey having both pieces of Anakin/Luke/Bens old Blue Light Saber I hope that when she repairs it she constructs it in a way to give her the double sided saber ala Darth Maul. She’s already proficient with a staff and that’d be a perfect configuration for her. And it’d lead to some cool choreography in future fight scenes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 17, 2017, 08:45:37 PM
This is the only place I can post this without being called an asshole spoiler...

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/25530217_1430221440409292_2055963833_n.jpg?oh=6f9db599aac8a92a2b9654aab81d29ba&oe=5A3A221B)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 17, 2017, 10:24:17 PM
Just got back from Empire strikes back, or was it return of the jedi? Hard to tell since it incorporated some many parts from both.

What the hell was that? seriously. Do something original. It didn't bother me all that much that TFA followed so many of ANH's story beats, but I really want nothing to do with it this time around.

Alright so here we go:

I loved snoke. Wasn't all that impressed with him in TFA, but here in person, I was captivated. He really came off a someone not to be screwed with, and I LOVED when he was on screen, which made me shocked beyond words when he died. I loved the character so I was sad to see him go, BUT I respect a bold move like that. My major complaint was that Snoke has NO development. Who the hell is he? Why is he all messed up looking.

seriously, how can someone with the power and influence of the emperor just show up. Like this guy just showed up out of nowhere? And I'm gonna tell you right now, there is NO WAY the emperor would have let someone that powerful just wander around. He would have killed him or had him under his command.

On to the next complaint. The hour long SLOW speed pursuit. This is really insane. At least in the original version of Empire strikes back, we had that kick ass pursuit of the falcon, out maneuvering the empire, weaving in and out of asteroids, then outsmarting the empire. Something like that is cool. But now in the new Return of the empire jedi film I just watched, we get that laughable slow speed pursuit. Out of range? What? So there's no tiny fighters or BOMBERS that could fly up to the capital ships and take out their engines? This whole scenario was really bad and lame writing.

Luke's "training" was super underwhelming. Those scenes could have been tightened up or at the very least, he could have actually trained her. His not training her made it all feel like a waste.

So Finn and Rose just happen to be into a prison cell with a guy that not only can break out at ANY moment, but has the EXACT skills needed that they came to the planet for. The whole casino planet sequence felt like I was watching the prequels honestly.

I thought the Luke projection thing was pretty cool, but I would have liked to see more of a fight between Kylo and luke. It didn't have to be overboard or anything, but just give me a little bit more. Luke just letting himself die at the end was a real let down to me. I waited two years to watch Luke in action, but he really did almost nothing the whole film. Honestly most of what luke did felt out of character.

So phasma shows up for a hot minute JUST to get beat again and fall away. She is basically Team Rocket at this point.

So rey comes from nothing, but yet is Super OP, is a master pilot with no training, rivals and bests an Heir of vader, with no training? I let all that go in TFA because I thought she was someone of importance.

Kylo with Knights of ren in the rain from TFA. So that no longer happened? I was under the impression that Kylo along with knights of ren destroyed the jedi temple mach 2. Now, he as a student brings the roof down on luke and then just goes and starts murdering? I just don't get it.

Ok, the stuff I like:

1. First space battle was tight and gave me goosebumps
2. Snoke was incredible
3. The snoke throne room scene, surprise death and Rey and kylo teaming up against the royal guards may have been one of the most badass moments in any star wars movie. Mother of god, it was awesome.
4. I find Hux very entertaining. Don't know why, I just really like that character.
5. Poe is cool as always

Overall, I would describe The Last Jedi as a hot steaming turd, that had some sparkling diamonds sticking out of it. I really wanted to say this is my least favorite SW film, but alas, Attack of the clones still exists, so oh well. I hated TLJ, but Loved TFA though.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 17, 2017, 10:50:13 PM
My theory about the code breaker that should have been explained.....but I felt was implied all along. 

He WAS the guy they were looking for.   He was thrown in jail having lost an incredible amount of money, and in the taking away of all his personal possessions.....someone else ended up with his personal pin on their lapel.   So by being thrown in jail, they actually found THE guy they had been looking for the entire time.   (That was my immediate conclusion that I kept waiting for them to explain....but then they didn"t ....which I thought was weird because it seemed pretty obvious)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 17, 2017, 10:52:44 PM
My theory about the code breaker that should have been explained.....but I felt was implied all along. 

He WAS the guy they were looking for.   He was thrown in jail having lost an incredible amount of money, and in the taking away of all his personal possessions.....someone else ended up with his personal pin on their lapel.   So by being thrown in jail, they actually found THE guy they had been looking for the entire time.   (That was my immediate conclusion that I kept waiting for them to explain....but then they didn"t ....which I thought was weird because it seemed pretty obvious)

I doubt weird alien girl was going to give a high recommendation to the guy they ended up with. Pretty sure if he's willing to betray them THAT quickly, she would have known what kind of guy he was.

So no, I don't think it was the guy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 18, 2017, 02:05:59 AM
I can't help but think the film ended to neatly for a second part of a trilogy, there is no real hook leading into part 3 (or IX).  How awesome would it have been if this one ended with Kylo successfully turning Rey to the Dark side.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 18, 2017, 02:57:18 AM
I think their main setup was for the resistance to take a battering going into the final part so they'd be the major underdogs. The Rey / Kylo storyline only really tried to make their plot more personal, without actually achieving much over the course of two and a half hours.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 18, 2017, 05:04:27 AM
https://youtu.be/ROoWg3-F9Hc

I had a bit of a laugh at this video..  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Bolsters on December 18, 2017, 05:24:47 AM
The look at the end... :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2017, 06:27:49 AM
My major complaint was that Snoke has NO development. Who the hell is he? Why is he all messed up looking.
I was originally annoyed by this as well, but the more I thought about it, the more I'm OK with it. We knew nothing about the Emperor in the original trilogy. No back story, no knowledge of how he came to power, etc, and we never questioned that. We seem to expect to know everyone's full story before we're satisfied these days, which I don't think is necessary. He's just a powerful bad dude same as the emperor was.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 18, 2017, 06:35:19 AM
What an odd film. I really enjoyed watching it, but I also left the theater thoroughly baffled by what I saw. Need to see again. Couldn’t rate right now if I tried.

This forum is the only place where I still have any kind of online presence, so apologies in advance if it feels like I'm just using this page as a place to get all of my thoughts out...

I haven't seen the film since I last checked in. I plan on seeing it Friday night. However, since I first saw it, I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. I can't put a finger on exactly why, but I feel as though the film genuinely moved me, even if I didn't totally realize it at first. What happened to Luke was both tragic and hopeful... The film was very bittersweet in a lot of ways. I'm anxious to catch it again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 18, 2017, 06:36:09 AM
My major complaint was that Snoke has NO development. Who the hell is he? Why is he all messed up looking.
I was originally annoyed by this as well, but the more I thought about it, the more I'm OK with it. We knew nothing about the Emperor in the original trilogy. No back story, no knowledge of how he came to power, etc, and we never questioned that. We seem to expect to know everyone's full story before we're satisfied these days, which I don't think is necessary. He's just a powerful bad dude same as the emperor was.

The difference is that with the OT, we knew nothing of the universe before the films. In these new movies, I think there needs to be some explanation for who this big bad dude is who popped up in the time between ROTJ and TFA. What, who, why etc. Like many things in TLJ, it felt like afizzle after the setup of TFA.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 18, 2017, 06:37:05 AM
My major complaint was that Snoke has NO development. Who the hell is he? Why is he all messed up looking.
I was originally annoyed by this as well, but the more I thought about it, the more I'm OK with it. We knew nothing about the Emperor in the original trilogy. No back story, no knowledge of how he came to power, etc, and we never questioned that. We seem to expect to know everyone's full story before we're satisfied these days, which I don't think is necessary. He's just a powerful bad dude same as the emperor was.

Couldn't agree more! Snoke served he's purpose in the story, as a a final push for Ben to the dark side. It would have been cool to find out more about him, but i'm fine if he doesn't return in 9.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2017, 06:45:04 AM
I can't help but think the film ended to neatly for a second part of a trilogy, there is no real hook leading into part 3 (or IX).  How awesome would it have been if this one ended with Kylo successfully turning Rey to the Dark side.

I think it ended perfectly. It set up a major time jump for the next movie, probably 5-10 years to where Rey is a legit...full on Powerful Jedi and with her having the ancient texts possibly be training more. With Luke’s lore increased with his actions (his story already being told by stable boys at the end) he indeed sparked the rebellion and was the hero the galaxy needed and inspiration so the resistance will be large and strong. Ren will be strong as well and by then even more bitter because i has the sense that he again was ashamed of his actions....he was kneeling with his head bowed to the ground after Rey shut the door on him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2017, 06:47:44 AM
What an odd film. I really enjoyed watching it, but I also left the theater thoroughly baffled by what I saw. Need to see again. Couldn’t rate right now if I tried.

This forum is the only place where I still have any kind of online presence, so apologies in advance if it feels like I'm just using this page as a place to get all of my thoughts out...

I haven't seen the film since I last checked in. I plan on seeing it Friday night. However, since I first saw it, I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. I can't put a finger on exactly why, but I feel as though the film genuinely moved me, even if I didn't totally realize it at first. What happened to Luke was both tragic and hopeful... The film was very bittersweet in a lot of ways. I'm anxious to catch it again.

My second viewing completely changed my look at the film. Thought it was OK the first time....left the second screening loving it......minus the Leiah space float scene. That’s still dumb.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 18, 2017, 06:50:55 AM
Oh man... that took a lot of catching up.  I think Phoenix's post is the closest to how I feel about this now that I've reflected on it over night.  It had some gem-worthy moments, but there were more wat the actual fuq moments.  The big ones listed already - Casino sequence, Leia Poppins, too much ill-placed humour (scratching BB-8 like he's a goddamned puppy!?!?), Luke's character overall, the space-chase, bad utilization of MANY characters - I think that's my biggest beef.  Not to mention a few little nits not mentioned yet:

- why the hell were four Destroyers just sitting on the sidelines watching the Rebels attack the Dreadnaught?
- Space-chase ... why not just jump to hyper space a few parsecs ahead, then jump back right in front of the fleeing rebels?
- Maz... who the hell is going to take a phone call in the middle of a shoot-out?!?!?
- Ackbar should've been the one to hyperspace the cruiser thru Snoke's ship - that would've been far more satisfying (as a great tip of the cap to an original character) than to give it to a (literally) throw away character.
- I'm a little conflicted that Ren goes from 'knowing what he has to do' and killing his father dad, to sparing Rey and killing Snoke this time around.  I get his motivation of 'letting go of the past... letting it die', but how is someone so far down the dark path with his master that he'll just turn on him so easily for Rey?  At least in ROTJ, Vader did it for his son.

The overall story definitely felt like a stitching together of some of best elements of ESB and ROTJ, it doesn't take much to see that.  I hope that means they will finally do something ORIGINAL with ep9 - they've run out of ideas to repurpose.

I'm really struggling to give this a 6/10.  The great parts were great; the bad parts were prequel bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Nekov on December 18, 2017, 09:04:17 AM
I'm still not sure where I stand on this one. I think I had high expectations and that's one of the things that's bumming me a little. As Blob said, the story could have been told in a better way and the humour is just misplaced most of the time. I need to give it some time to sink in and re-watch it before I pass more judgement on it.


Rose also comes from nothing, yet she also becomes a hero in the end after saving Finn! That slave boy on the casino planet also can

What I didn't like
  • The burning of the Jedi temple tree, and the ancient Jedi texts didn't work for me. This doesn't strike me as something Yoda would do

Well, at the end there is a cameo of Finn opening a drawer in the millenium falcon where you can see the Jedi text books. So Yoda knew pretty well that the Jedi Order would go on even if the tree wasn't there. He was just pushing Luke to do the right thing.

It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum!

Well, according to real science and not movie science, you don't immediately die in a vacum, you can actually survive for a couple of minutes without freezing or exploding because of pressure diffrence. Even if that was the case, SW space works differently than normal space so that may also be a reason why she doesn't die immediately.

It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum! I don't mind (too much) some of the other force stuff that we saw in this movie, that had never been part of Star Wars lore. But the Leia thing infuriates me. She's not even a strong force user (not that I think anyone should be able to do what she did). She was sucked out into space and then unconscious! Even if you could do something to survive in space using the force (which I call bullshit on) she was unconscious! It make it look more like there was divine intervention or some bullshit. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. Luke, Vader, the emperor, they were all mortal men who could be killed like any other. If you are going to make force users more like gods then I'll be pissed off with where they take the films next!

Rant over.......for now

Basically that was my issue. The move itself wasn't a problem, it was the circumstances of being pulled out into space and unconscious/dead, and Leia not being a force user as far as we've been shown, just force sensitive.

Good point. I'm pretty sure in the EU she trained and was able to use the force but in the films she's only ever been shown to be force sensitive. That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it. Actually Rey was the first to just DO stuff in TFA, with no training. But I didn't mind that as much as she was shown to be way stronger than any other untrained force user. Plus the force had awoken in her, she was special (potentially the real chosen one to bring balance to the force). Unless this kid is in the next film (and a total badass) this doesn't sit well with me.

Well, I think Disney said that anything outside the movies was not part of the cannon anymore so whatever happened in the EU is inconsecuential. We can just assume that Luke gave her some training on the basinc use of the force just in case.
And regarding people not using the force without training, I think we can safely say Anakin did in episode I because there is no way a kid could succeeed in those races without some help of the force in order to react at that speed or some can of ability to forsee what was coming.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2017, 10:46:15 AM
As I've read comments from the director of TLJ and other things, I find it a little disturbing that it seems like they didn't have the whole storyline plotted out for these three movies. The director made some comment that he decided Rey would have parents that were nobody important. How was that not something that was already determined before TFA was even filmed? It also seemed like he just decided that he didn't want to bother with some of the set-ups from TFA (Snoke's backstory, where Maz got Luke's lightsaber, etc). Again, how were these things not already established up front? Maybe Ep 9 will reveal answers to some of these questions, but it seems to me that the basic plot on things that were meant to be carried over between movies should have been defined up front.

I don't necessarily think these things detract from TLJ, though it will detract from the whole trilogy if they go unanswered. Mostly it will make TFA worse in retrospect if it's just decided that these things don't matter after all. With JJ Abrams back at the helm for Ep. 9 maybe he'll make a point to close the loop on some of these things.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 18, 2017, 10:48:56 AM
I think the TLJ made it really obvious that they didn't have a concrete plan across all three movies.  :-\
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2017, 11:40:14 AM
I guess it became pretty clear over time that George Lucas was just making things up as he went along, so it's probably not that big of a deal, but I still find it bizarre they wouldn't have had it all mapped out from the start.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2017, 12:41:15 PM
I still find it bizarre they wouldn't have had it all mapped out from the start.

But we don't really know if they haven't mapped it out over three movies because there is still one to go. How do we know Ren wasn't lying to Rey about her lineage or that Snoke is really even dead? Dude's body before he died looked like he'd been put back together a few dozen times anyway. Even if he is dead and that is that......so what? Who made the big deal about Snoke's backstory? It wasn't anyone in TFA it was the fans wanting to know. It'd be cool to know but is it really all that important?

And if Rey is just the daughter of some bums it fits in just fine with the them of TLJ.......if she happens to be the kid of Palpatine's third cousin or A love child of Vadar then cool. Luke will most likely still make an appearance or two as a Force Ghost like Yoda so he's not really gone either.....But until the final scene of the last film we can't say for certain they haven't mapped it out.



Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2017, 12:47:21 PM
They definitely could have had it figured out from the beginning. My suspicion is based more on TLJ's director's comments and some other things I've read than the events of the movies themselves that make me think it wasn't planned out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 18, 2017, 05:20:32 PM
Oh man... that took a lot of catching up.  I think Phoenix's post is the closest to how I feel about this now that I've reflected on it over night.  It had some gem-worthy moments, but there were more wat the actual fuq moments.  The big ones listed already - Casino sequence, Leia Poppins, too much ill-placed humour (scratching BB-8 like he's a goddamned puppy!?!?), Luke's character overall, the space-chase, bad utilization of MANY characters - I think that's my biggest beef.  Not to mention a few little nits not mentioned yet:

- why the hell were four Destroyers just sitting on the sidelines watching the Rebels attack the Dreadnaught?
- Space-chase ... why not just jump to hyper space a few parsecs ahead, then jump back right in front of the fleeing rebels?
- Maz... who the hell is going to take a phone call in the middle of a shoot-out?!?!?
- Ackbar should've been the one to hyperspace the cruiser thru Snoke's ship - that would've been far more satisfying (as a great tip of the cap to an original character) than to give it to a (literally) throw away character.
- I'm a little conflicted that Ren goes from 'knowing what he has to do' and killing his father dad, to sparing Rey and killing Snoke this time around.  I get his motivation of 'letting go of the past... letting it die', but how is someone so far down the dark path with his master that he'll just turn on him so easily for Rey?  At least in ROTJ, Vader did it for his son.

The overall story definitely felt like a stitching together of some of best elements of ESB and ROTJ, it doesn't take much to see that.  I hope that means they will finally do something ORIGINAL with ep9 - they've run out of ideas to repurpose.

I'm really struggling to give this a 6/10.  The great parts were great; the bad parts were prequel bad.

Yep, I can agree with pretty much all of this. I also agree that Phoenix's post is closest to how I feel about this film.

It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum! I don't mind (too much) some of the other force stuff that we saw in this movie, that had never been part of Star Wars lore. But the Leia thing infuriates me. She's not even a strong force user (not that I think anyone should be able to do what she did). She was sucked out into space and then unconscious! Even if you could do something to survive in space using the force (which I call bullshit on) she was unconscious! It make it look more like there was divine intervention or some bullshit. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. Luke, Vader, the emperor, they were all mortal men who could be killed like any other. If you are going to make force users more like gods then I'll be pissed off with where they take the films next!

Rant over.......for now

Basically that was my issue. The move itself wasn't a problem, it was the circumstances of being pulled out into space and unconscious/dead, and Leia not being a force user as far as we've been shown, just force sensitive.

Good point. I'm pretty sure in the EU she trained and was able to use the force but in the films she's only ever been shown to be force sensitive. That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it. Actually Rey was the first to just DO stuff in TFA, with no training. But I didn't mind that as much as she was shown to be way stronger than any other untrained force user. Plus the force had awoken in her, she was special (potentially the real chosen one to bring balance to the force). Unless this kid is in the next film (and a total badass) this doesn't sit well with me.

Well, I think Disney said that anything outside the movies was not part of the cannon anymore so whatever happened in the EU is inconsecuential. We can just assume that Luke gave her some training on the basinc use of the force just in case.
And regarding people not using the force without training, I think we can safely say Anakin did in episode I because there is no way a kid could succeeed in those races without some help of the force in order to react at that speed or some can of ability to forsee what was coming.

I know that the EU is no longer canon but even within the original trilogy (and prequel trilogy) no untrained force user can force grab/throw etc. In the original trilogy Luke is not able to do anything like that until he has had training (and the force is strong with him). The same with Anakin, he only learns to do this once he starts training. In regards to Podracing, it is explained that Anakin has lightening quick reflexes. This is a by-product of being a force user, regardless of training. It was the same with Luke in the OT, he was said to be the best pilot on Tatooine and could "shoot the tail of a Wamp Rat". This is not the same as being trained to lift rocks using the force. Luke wasn't shown to be using the force, like a Jedi would, until he started training. That was the same for Anakin.

I know that Disney can now take Star Wars in any direction they want but I feel they need to respect the source material. Some people like fresh things being added in but I feel they have to respect the world this story is told in and what has previously been shown to be possible/impossible. If they suddenly decided to allow force users to fly and shoot lasers from their eyes, would we be cool with that? That's why I don't like the Leia in space scene. If you are going to do that then why not just have her flying around in space and never travelling in a ship at all??

Star Wars is just something that has been a big part of my life for the entirety of it. I have watched all the films, read countless books, played the computer games, learnt all the character names/planets/races/vehicles etc. I feel like I have a good grasp on what Star Wars is, better than most. I know there will people who know even more than me though, I'm not saying I know it all. The EU (at least the books I read) all kept within the universe that George Lucas built and never felt out of place. I know there are plenty of casual fans out there and that's fine. But when a film feels like it has been directed by a casual fan, that's when it angers me. I feel like that anyone who directs a SW film should know the series inside and out. Unfortunately TLJ doesn't feel like this to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 18, 2017, 05:26:49 PM
Well, at the end there is a cameo of Finn opening a drawer in the millenium falcon where you can see the Jedi text books. So Yoda knew pretty well that the Jedi Order would go on even if the tree wasn't there. He was just pushing Luke to do the right thing.

???  How was that a cameo?  Finn is a major character in the trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2017, 05:30:48 PM
Well, at the end there is a cameo of Finn opening a drawer in the millenium falcon where you can see the Jedi text books. So Yoda knew pretty well that the Jedi Order would go on even if the tree wasn't there. He was just pushing Luke to do the right thing.

???  How was that a cameo?  Finn is a major character in the trilogy.

I think he just meant a shot of finn. In Nekov's country, the wort for shot, and the word for cameo are very closely related.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 18, 2017, 09:18:48 PM
They definitely could have had it figured out from the beginning. My suspicion is based more on TLJ's director's comments and some other things I've read than the events of the movies themselves that make me think it wasn't planned out.

Which to me is inexcusable and a discredit to the Star Wars universe. If the MCU can at least kind of map out and keep faith to the general overall universe they've created, you'd think they'd attempt to do the same for the massive guaranteed fanbase that comes with SW. We're really not that hard of a fanbase to please, they just seem to be trying to please everyone instead of just committing to a complete and intriguing story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2017, 10:05:13 PM
I guess I just don't subscribe to the thought that since they've either punted Reys true lineage reveal OR the fact she really is a nobody chosen by the force as an indication they haven't planned it out. And, if they left Snokes story as is or chose to elaborate.....agsin, doesn't mean there isn't a plan in place.

They've used Luke,his lore and his incredible Jedi feat of projecting himself across light years and galaxies to spark the rebellion...a rebellion that was all but dead but in the next film will be rebuilt and strong again thanks to him. That appears to have been planned out.

They've connected Rey and Ren in a way that surely is going to play out over the next film......Benicio del Torrid character will most likely play a role in the next film.....I mean, there is an underlying story going on.

If they had made Reys parental reveal a more appealing and fan approved reveal people would be bitching that it was an Empire rehash..... "So lame they used the second film to reveal just like Empire" and so on. The "reveal" works for the narrative of that movie of the nobody's becoming someone  AND the fact Ren can't be trusted to have told her the truth 

I was a bit turned off after the first viewing but something happened the second time around d where it really clicked for me. I like it a lot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2017, 10:08:25 PM
I think Rey's parents being nobodies is actually an important plot point that plays right into the entire theme of the force that Luke said.

It's not just for special people, it's for anybody. That's why that random kid was able to use it at the end. They emphasize that by saying Rey isn't special. She has no crazy lineage. She's just a person. If she can master the force, so can other people. You don't have to be a Skywalker or anything.

So I, personally, hope they maintain that her parents are just random nobodies. I like that message way more than needing to be from some elite group to be special.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2017, 10:49:25 PM
I think Rey's parents being nobodies is actually an important plot point that plays right into the entire theme of the force that Luke said.

It's not just for special people, it's for anybody. That's why that random kid was able to use it at the end. They emphasize that by saying Rey isn't special. She has no crazy lineage. She's just a person. If she can master the force, so can other people. You don't have to be a Skywalker or anything.

So I, personally, hope they maintain that her parents are just random nobodies. I like that message way more than needing to be from some elite group to be special.

I agree 100%, it was the theme of the movie. Curious as to why that’s not good enough for some people? (Not specifically here)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2017, 10:51:42 PM
I think Rey's parents being nobodies is actually an important plot point that plays right into the entire theme of the force that Luke said.

It's not just for special people, it's for anybody. That's why that random kid was able to use it at the end. They emphasize that by saying Rey isn't special. She has no crazy lineage. She's just a person. If she can master the force, so can other people. You don't have to be a Skywalker or anything.

So I, personally, hope they maintain that her parents are just random nobodies. I like that message way more than needing to be from some elite group to be special.

I agree 100%, it was the theme of the movie. Curious as to why that’s not good enough for some people? (Not specifically here)

I had a considerable amount of problems with this movie. Rey's parents being nobodies wasn't one of them. In fact, the big mystery around it from Force Awakens onward was incredibly annoying and dumb, so I really hope JJ doesn't undo it and just leaves it be.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 18, 2017, 11:51:01 PM
Saw it with a couple of my friends yesterday, i really like this movie now! Two friends i was with, loved it.

I agree with gmillerdrake's previous posts. What he said feels closest to how i feel right now!

Everything just seemed to fall into place on the second viewing. Canto Bight excursion felt shorter, and was a nice change of scenery from the rest of the movie. Luke being a "failed legend" was really compelling. Leia's space walk didn't bother me as much. The themes of "Heroes can come from anywhere", and "Failure being the best teacher" hit home strongly on the second viewing.

This movie is easily better than Rogue One, and might even be better than TFA. Don't know if i prefer it over any of the originals right now..

Also about the trilogy being mapped out. I disagree! That would have seriously tied Johnson's hands when making this movie. From what i've read, there is an end game planned. But how the trilogy gets there, is yet to be decided.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on December 19, 2017, 12:26:20 AM
I will post my thoughts on the movie at some point, but I have so many opinions that I need to gather my thoughts some more. I’ve even considered making a video because there’s so much to say.

For now though, I would just like to let you all know that just because you’re out of a planet’s atmosphere doesn’t mean that you’re also out of its gravitational pull. It would never have occured to me to be a viable criticism for a Star Wars movie, but if it makes anyone feel any better, the bombs dropping in that moment was completely scientificly correct.

EDIT: Also, that’s assuming that the bombs weren’t machanically propelled downwards by the massive contraption they were placed in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 19, 2017, 01:25:32 AM
I hate to overanalyze, but it seemed pretty clear to me that those launching devices on the bomber propelled the bombs downwards..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 19, 2017, 01:57:52 AM
I'm ok with Rey's parents not being anyone of significance. I went into this movie with almost a blank slate of expectations, but that was one thing I was hoping they wouldn't do. To make her the daughter of a Skywalker or Kenobi would have seemed a bit too contrived for me.

The other thing I was hoping was that Snoke didn't turn out to be this Darth Plagueis character, somebody who's only mentioned briefly in ROTS. I'm ok with his background not being explained, just like the Emperor's wasn't, but I still feel he was dispatched far too easily.

I'll be going to see it again this Saturday, so we'll see if my opinions change any.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bl5150 on December 19, 2017, 03:48:43 AM
Well I have seen the first hour or so....... >:(

Took my son along tonight and the movie stopped at the first appearance of Snoke.  They then fluffed around for 10 mins and we got a restart that then stopped at the first appearance of Luke - same thing.  Then at the one hour mark water started flooding in through the roof (massive storms outside) and we were evacuated.  The freaking force ain't with me I can tell ya  ::)

What I saw I thought was okay - visually spectacular but I just don't have the connection with characters like Finn and Po  vs the movies I grew up with. They don't drive me nuts like Hayden C did in the prequels but I just don't find them particularly convincing or likeable. 

Not sure if I can be bothered making the trip again based on what I saw.......  Ben (son) and I were pumped to see it but really flat after the initial viewing being stuffed.  We might just wait for the stream on cable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Nekov on December 19, 2017, 06:03:45 AM
Well, at the end there is a cameo of Finn opening a drawer in the millenium falcon where you can see the Jedi text books. So Yoda knew pretty well that the Jedi Order would go on even if the tree wasn't there. He was just pushing Luke to do the right thing.

???  How was that a cameo?  Finn is a major character in the trilogy.

I think he just meant a shot of finn. In Nekov's country, the wort for shot, and the word for cameo are very closely related.

Sorry if cameo is not the correct word, as Adami says it was a shot of Finn opening a drawer, I just used that word becuase it was short and if people weren't paying attention they might have missed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 19, 2017, 08:42:02 AM
I think Rey's parents being nobodies is actually an important plot point that plays right into the entire theme of the force that Luke said.

It's not just for special people, it's for anybody. That's why that random kid was able to use it at the end. They emphasize that by saying Rey isn't special. She has no crazy lineage. She's just a person. If she can master the force, so can other people. You don't have to be a Skywalker or anything.

So I, personally, hope they maintain that her parents are just random nobodies. I like that message way more than needing to be from some elite group to be special.

I agree 100%, it was the theme of the movie. Curious as to why that’s not good enough for some people? (Not specifically here)
I don't inherently have issues with it. It depends in large part how Episode 9 turns out and what happens after that. I think that the main saga should end after 9 if there are no Skywalkers standing at the end. I suspect that it was supposed to be Leia atoning for her family's failure to close out the Skywalker story in Ep. 9, but now that Carrie Fisher is gone I'm not sure how that works. Luke didn't do enough for Rey in TLJ to make it seem like he's atoning for his or his family's failure through her. I guess that's the only reason I have a potential issue with Rey being unrelated to the Skywalkers, but it all depends on how Ep. 9 plays out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 19, 2017, 08:54:18 AM
While I didn't think the movie was that great, I thought Rey's parents being no one special was actually a good thing. If the Star Wars franchise is going to remain interesting after these movies, we need to move away from the Skywalker extended family and friends.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 19, 2017, 09:51:44 AM
As this is the final trilogy of the Skywalker saga a lot of people are assuming that Rey has to be connected to the Skywalker clan. I'm not buying it. I think Kylo was telling the truth and based on the directors explanation as to why he went that direction I have no issues with it. I remember reading that George Lucas considered Anakin/ Vador to be the primary character of the original 6 films. The more I think about it I think that Kylo/Ben is the primary lead of the story. For one he is directly related to Anakin. Two, he's gone full on dark side so I think Luke/Rey will have some influence on his fate in the final film. I'm guessing Rey kills him and the skywalker line goes extinct with the deaths of Luke, Leah, and now Ben. The end of the Skywalker Saga should mean the end of the bloodline.

Read an interesting theory about Rey being a clone made from Luke Hand. Cool idea, but doubt it will happen in the film.

I really hope the story of Snoke is told in some capacity. That's really the only thing I don't like about the film. Don't mind that he was killed, but wish they fleshed him out a bit more. Maybe he was a clone of the emperor?

Also, I hope John Williams lives long enough to finish Episode 9. The score was amazing as always.

I'm guessing Leia's death will be handled in the opening scroll. Maybe she gets assassinated? I do think there will be a time jump of at least a year. 5-10 seems a bit much.

I didn't mind the Maz Kanata scene. She needs to stay relevent since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

I also expect the Knights of Ren to show up and go against Rey's new troop of jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 19, 2017, 09:58:13 AM
My beef with Snoke isn't that they didn't give us a back-story (hell, we don't know Yoda's back story - at least in the movie universe).  My beef is they introduce him as a mysterious character in TFA, he's the "supreme leader" and clearly super-powerful with the force, but they kill him off after just a few scenes.  No development in the character at all.  Even Rose is getting better treatment than that.

Ditto with Phasma.  One minor hand-to-hand fight, and the floor collapses ... which begs the question, why didn't Finn's platform collapse along with it?

Lunch bag letdown on those two (supposedly) powerful and menacing characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 19, 2017, 10:05:30 AM
since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

Does it really need to be told though? I feel like that's the line of thinking that lead to R1, Han Solo stand alone film, Yoda film, and even the prequels. I mean sure. We can take any of these ideas and turn them into great movies, but a lot of times it seems exhausting where people try to find meaning and significance in every little detail, like the people coming up with theories as to who the kid at the end is and how he will be significant. It seems like things can't just happen anymore. We need movies explaining everything.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 19, 2017, 10:13:49 AM
I didn't mind the Maz Kanata scene. She needs to stay relevent since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

Agreed on both points.  Yeah, having her expound on where to find the master codebreaker when she is in the middle of a gunfight is ridiculous and silly.  But in a fun, "I can suspend belief for this in this type of movie" kind of way. 

And, yeah, I really hope the lightsaber issue is explained at some point.

I also expect the Knights of Ren to show up and go against Rey's new troop of jedi.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere awhile back that Snoke's elite guard were the Knights of Ren.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 19, 2017, 10:18:54 AM
I didn't mind the Maz Kanata scene. She needs to stay relevent since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

Agreed on both points.  Yeah, having her expound on where to find the master codebreaker when she is in the middle of a gunfight is ridiculous and silly.  But in a fun, "I can suspend belief for this in this type of movie" kind of way. 

And, yeah, I really hope the lightsaber issue is explained at some point.

I also expect the Knights of Ren to show up and go against Rey's new troop of jedi.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere awhile back that Snoke's elite guard were the Knights of Ren.

I think they are officially called the Praetorean (Spelling) Guard. Everything I've read is they are not the Knights. Could be wrong.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 19, 2017, 10:24:05 AM
since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

Does it really need to be told though? I feel like that's the line of thinking that lead to R1, Han Solo stand alone film, Yoda film, and even the prequels. I mean sure. We can take any of these ideas and turn them into great movies, but a lot of times it seems exhausting where people try to find meaning and significance in every little detail, like the people coming up with theories as to who the kid at the end is and how he will be significant. It seems like things can't just happen anymore. We need movies explaining everything.

I don't know that it needs to be "told" in terms of getting the whole story.  But a couple lines of exposition could take it from "oh, what a marvelously serendipitous piece of serendipity there" to, "Oh, that makes sense and serves some purpose in the grand scheme of things."  Lucas definitely had his issues, both as a writer, but moreso as a director.  But one thing he did right in the OT was that he could have a few lines of dialog in a conversation give a LOT of exposition without hitting you over the head with "hey, I'm giving you necessary backstory exposition here!"  There isn't screen time given to tell the backstory of Alderaan.  But we have enough in a few lines of dialog to get the impact of its destruction.  We don't get a ton of backstory on the state of the government in ep. IV, but a few lines of dialog aboard the death star tell us enough that we see the empire as a force that is in the process of establishing an authoritarian stranglehold by snuffing out a senate.  We get zero exposition about the conflicts of the past, other than the fact that something called the "clone wars" was somehow a major series of conflicts that happened, and there were a lot of jedi back then, and Anakin was a jedi and ace pilot and jedi himself that had something bad happen to him.  We get that the emperor is VERY strong in the force and not to be trifled with because Vader, who is imposing as it gets from his very first appearance, kneels to this dude and calls him "master."  There was a lot done with few words that kept the mystery, but gave you enough to feel like things had a context.  Personally, I think VII and VIII are better movies overall.  But they lack that simple gift of providing that rich context through only a few lines of dialog or short scenes that gave you enough to make you feel like things had a context and purpose instead of just being random.  To me, the lightsaber thing is one of those areas that needs a bit of filling in to not feel so random and serendipitous. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 19, 2017, 10:24:53 AM
I think they are officially called the Praetorean (Spelling) Guard. Everything I've read is they are not the Knights. Could be wrong.

I think you're right.
That reminds me, when I saw the movie, when one of them got the lightsabre to the face, the entire theater went OOOOHHHHHHHHH :lol Pretty cool fight scene.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 19, 2017, 10:25:29 AM
since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

Does it really need to be told though?
It only needs to be told because Maz told us it was a story for another day. Take away that line from TFA and no, it doesn't need to be told. If they choose not to discuss it further it just makes for an annoying inconsistency, but I doubt the story is anything we really need to know.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 19, 2017, 10:37:45 AM
big paragraph

Good point. I fully agree with you here. For example, the relationship between the First Order and Republic and exactly what was at stake were things that should've been explained far better, even with a few throwaway lines of dialogue, much like what was done in the OT with things like the origin of Darth Vader.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Podaar on December 19, 2017, 10:49:35 AM
My beef with Snoke isn't that they didn't give us a back-story (hell, we don't know Yoda's back story - at least in the movie universe).  My beef is they introduce him as a mysterious character in TFA, he's the "supreme leader" and clearly super-powerful with the force, but they kill him off after just a few scenes. No development in the character at all.  Even Rose is getting better treatment than that.

I thought that was brilliant. Granted, I don't have an emotional investment in the SW franchise so my views are probably not very relevant to the discussion. But, here is Snoke going into cliche super-bad-guy monologue vulgar-display-of-power mode and Kylo takes him down with low cunning and by playing on Snokes hubris. The unexpectedness of it was excellent.

I for one welcome the changes in the franchise. To me, these current movies aren't about what worked in the past for the partisan factions of The Force but is about its evolving influence in the galaxy as a whole. I'm happy to see characters like Snoke, Luke, Yoda, Vader, etc. be consigned to the past. A powerful force user like Rey who balances her compassion and anger is a much more compelling character. I'm actually hoping she ends up convincing Kylo (Ben) to follow her (although, I doubt that's where Disney is going with this.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 19, 2017, 10:58:32 AM
@Implode:  Yeah, I think you get me.  I mean, I'm not in favor of giving an origin story to everything.  I had a lot of trepidation about Rogue One being a story that didn't need to be told.  But I think they nailed it, so it's all good.  I think that, while the prequels do some cool things and do some things right, they also highlight how doing too much origin story (especially when not done well) actually takes away from the whole instead of enhancing it.  Unfortunately, I feel like both Vader and Boba Fett and less cool because of the backstories given them in the PT.  That's why I think Solo is a bad idea (I would love to be proven wrong).  But giving a bit of backstory to help things feel real and feel like they have a context is good.  To take another example, killing off Snoke so unceremoniously and not giving him any backstory could very well serve the theme of TLJ that it doesn't matter nearly so much where you've been and how your family is, as much as who YOU are and what YOU do.  It could also be that they were sloppy and didn't have any good ideas.  A bit of expository backstory on things that are important to the fans would, IMO, make us trust those in charge of the film and feel like the Snoke thing was the former and not the latter.  With them not nailing that in a lot of obvious areas leaves doubt.  Does that make sense?

@Podaar:  Agreed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 19, 2017, 01:59:28 PM
Interesting.  Hadn't picked up on this from Rogue One:

Quote
In Rogue One, when Jyn Erso is looking for plans to the Death Star on the Empire’s massive database on Scarif, she mentions a few other top-secret developments the Empire’s scientists and engineers are working on. Among them? Hyperspace tracking.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 19, 2017, 02:43:07 PM
Interesting.  Hadn't picked up on this from Rogue One:

Quote
In Rogue One, when Jyn Erso is looking for plans to the Death Star on the Empire’s massive database on Scarif, she mentions a few other top-secret developments the Empire’s scientists and engineers are working on. Among them? Hyperspace tracking.

That is interesting. You’d think that if they went to the trouble of planning details like this, and having them follow through to subsequent movies, then there must have been at least a high level plan for the story arc for the whole sequel trilogy.

I found this review. I think it’s pretty balanced and I can agree with a lot of it:

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2017/12/spoiler-review-star-wars-the-last-jedi-this-didnt-go-the-way-we-thought.html
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Big Hath on December 19, 2017, 10:08:21 PM
regarding if Kylo Ren was telling the truth about Rey's parents:  If they were truly nobodies, how would he even know that/who they were?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 19, 2017, 10:11:29 PM
regarding if Kylo Ren was telling the truth about Rey's parents:  If they were truly nobodies, how would he even know that/who they were?

I dunno. The force? Maybe he saw the memories that she can't recall. Who knows.

So I was watching the Red Letter Media review and they asked a good question. Where is there left to go next?

Other than good guy fight bad guy, what are they going to do that this movie dealt with? I mean, I guess they can keep up the whole "everybody can use the force" thing, but I don't see where any of the characters are actually going besides Rey fights Kylo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Big Hath on December 19, 2017, 10:18:14 PM
just thought of something.  We've already seen the first Order/Resistance chase before:



(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EquatorialEvenAngelfish-small.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2017, 10:36:04 PM
Just saw it again, this time in the bright shiny new IMAX theater that just opened last Thursday. For sure a better experience and the way to see it in my opinion (I loathe 3D). My feelings on the movie remain the same, there are still the same wtf moments, and the whole casino planet arc is still stupid, but man, the three main sequences (opening battle, the sequence surrounding Snoke's death, and the salt planet sequence) were even better this time around. In that they nailed, for me at least, the spirit of Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 20, 2017, 04:55:34 AM
Interesting.  Hadn't picked up on this from Rogue One:

Quote
In Rogue One, when Jyn Erso is looking for plans to the Death Star on the Empire’s massive database on Scarif, she mentions a few other top-secret developments the Empire’s scientists and engineers are working on. Among them? Hyperspace tracking.

Its a shame they didn't research ludicrous speed as well.


(https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/steven-universe/images/1/1d/Spaceballs-ludicrous-speed-o.gif/revision/latest?cb=20150812152815)

(https://i.imgur.com/q9nz8cJ.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2017, 01:59:08 PM
Two continuity errors I was thinking about:

1.) In the moment that Rey sees Kylo Ren shirtless......he has no visible laser wound on his side where Chewbacca shot him? I'm guessing it's been what, a matter of three or four days....a week? Maybe he's been healed like his face was but it's never specifically addressed. In TFA they made a point to show how powerful Chewie's crossbow laser gun was...then him get shot and blood was oozing out onto the snow. Not a mention of that wound in TLJ

2.) Luke walks out to the line of Imperial Walkers.....takes an onslaught of blasts then it's over....he's fine....shakes it off but that was a ton of shots that tore up the area. The next scene Finn is dragging Rose through the opening of the blast door. Wouldn't Finn have been in the line of fire or at least near the debris field of all those shots?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 20, 2017, 02:35:49 PM
Oh, wow.  Hadn't thought about the first one, but that's actually a pretty major oversight.  On the second one, not sure if that is an error or not.  I'll have to see that sequence again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 20, 2017, 03:31:50 PM
I did notice Ren had the one round scar on his left shoulder...or maybe the scar from Chewie's shot was below his waistline, his pants were riding hella high in that scene.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 20, 2017, 04:21:04 PM
I did notice Ren had the one round scar on his left shoulder...or maybe the scar from Chewie's shot was below his waistline, his pants were riding hella high in that scene.

he pants were very high, so that's an easy explanation of that. I assume it's been weeks since that incident, not just days but there's no way to know for sure.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 20, 2017, 09:58:33 PM
Two continuity errors I was thinking about:

1.) In the moment that Rey sees Kylo Ren shirtless......he has no visible laser wound on his side where Chewbacca shot him? I'm guessing it's been what, a matter of three or four days....a week? Maybe he's been healed like his face was but it's never specifically addressed. In TFA they made a point to show how powerful Chewie's crossbow laser gun was...then him get shot and blood was oozing out onto the snow. Not a mention of that wound in TLJ

2.) Luke walks out to the line of Imperial Walkers.....takes an onslaught of blasts then it's over....he's fine....shakes it off but that was a ton of shots that tore up the area. The next scene Finn is dragging Rose through the opening of the blast door. Wouldn't Finn have been in the line of fire or at least near the debris field of all those shots?

I would definitely assume he healed the shot wound first since it was kinda life threatening, then we saw he got interrupted while healing the less crucial face one. It would have been nice to see some of that on screen though, just to strengthen that connection with Rey from the last movie and justify Kylo's state of mind a bit more.
The second point annoyed me a little bit while watching it. Finn would have been dragging Rose towards the entrance the whole time, and the close timing seemed like he'd have been in some danger. I think they just wanted us to overlook that one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 21, 2017, 01:38:06 AM
Calling all rankers...

Great.
1. A New Hope.
2. The Force Awakens.
3. Empire Strikes Back.
---
Good.
4. Return of the Jedi.
---
Decent.
5. The Last Jedi
6. Rogue One.
---
Watchable.
7. Revenge of the Sith.
---
Trash.
8/9 The Phantom Binks/Attack of the Sand.   (Only watched these movies once each).


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 21, 2017, 01:48:54 AM
Great.
1. Empire
2. New Hope
3. Rogue One

Good
1. Return of the Jedi
2. The Force Awakens
3. The Last Jedi

Prequels
1. Phantom Menace
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 21, 2017, 02:20:57 AM
Classic.
1. Empire
2. New Hope

Good.
1. Return of the Jedi
2. The Last Jedi
3. Force Awakens

Decent.
1. Rogue One

Passable.
1. Revenge of the Sith

Dumpster Fire.
1. Phantom Menace
2. Attack of the Clones

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 21, 2017, 06:41:46 AM
Excellent
1. Empire
2. New Hope
3. Force Awakens

Good
4. Return of the Jedi

Meh
5. The Last Jedi

Not good
6. Rogue One
7. Revenge of the Sith

Die
8. Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2017, 08:36:43 AM
Saw it last night and while I definitely enjoyed it, there were some issues that I had with it that really make it hard for me to really enjoy the movie as much as I think I could have.  Specifically the actors and acting.  I don't think any of the new characters were interesting and fun to watch.  At all.  I still think Kylo Ren looks ridiculous (especially the scene with his shirt off which felt really out of place) and his acting is cringe worthy, but it was really the newer characters that I had to just sigh throughout the movie watching.  This episode felt just as cheesy as the prequal trilogy with some really dumb humor and poor acting.  Also this excessive use of the force is kind of leaving me with the feeling the movie has gone too far.  I guess anything can happen if Leia can survive after being frozen in space.  I did think the storyline otherwise was fine and very star wars esque.  Mostly felt right even if the chase was really slow and plodding, but I had no issues with the side missions and the similar Empire Strikes Back Yoda/Luke and Rey/Luke similarities (and there were other similarities).  The action sequences were really fun and I had no issues with the ending.  Sadly, Mark Hamill seemed to be by far the best actor in this new trilogy and we didn't get enough of him though.

My rankings (of course subject to change as I see the movie again at some point and maybe my views change):

Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Syth
The Last Jedi
Phantom Menace
Rogue One
Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 21, 2017, 08:47:20 AM
Rankings....


Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
Rogue One
Empire Strikes Back
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
The Force Awakens







Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2017, 09:04:39 AM
I'm still giddy about the movie and willing to overlook its flaws.  Hard to say at this stage whether that will hold up and I will continue to hold the movie in such high regard down the road, or if I will end up feeling like it just wasn't well done.  Right now, I just really like it and feel like it was a great story with some parts that were well done, some parts that weren't, and some parts in between.  And I can say that about a LOT of movies that I like a lot.

I do want to come back to the Leia thing for just a second though, because something occurs to me.  I have heard that, as much as VII was Han's movie, and VIII was Luke's movie, the plan was for IX to be Leia's movie.  If that is true, maybe part of the plan was for her to be revealed to be much more in tune with the force than we had previously realized and much more than had previously been revealed, and her space walk was something that was supposed to help set that up?  And if that is the case, her untimely and obviously unanticipated passing away AFTER they had the entire film shot would have made it really difficult and impractical to remove that.  But if there was indeed some sort of planned context for it that actually would have made it have a big, more satisfying payoff later, I can be a bit more forgiving of what I think most of us would consider the biggest (or at least one of the two biggest) flaws in this film.  Yeah, even if it was planned to set up something rewarding later, it's still a silly and awkward scene that could have been done any number of ways to reduce or eliminate the silliness/awkwardness.  But still, it may have at least had a grander purpose than we realize.  Just speculating here.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 21, 2017, 09:18:07 AM
I'm still giddy about the movie and willing to overlook its flaws.  Hard to say at this stage whether that will hold up and I will continue to hold the movie in such high regard down the road, or if I will end up feeling like it just wasn't well done.  Right now, I just really like it and feel like it was a great story with some parts that were well done, some parts that weren't, and some parts in between.  And I can say that about a LOT of movies that I like a lot.

Yeah....this statement fits me as well. As I said the first time I saw it I was just bummed because 'I' had this idea of how Luke's story should go. I really anticipated this massive fight scene with him just light saber fighting a ton of people and kicking a$$. When that didn't happen I was so distracted and upset I didn't enjoy or even try to understand how they used him in the story.

Second viewing changed it all for me and I can overlook the Leah deal and the casino run....even the moments when the humor fell flat. I thought it was a beautiful 'end' to Luke's story (although I can't imagine he doesn't show back up as a Force Ghost at some point next film) and it used his legend and never before seen Jedi power perfectly to rekindle the rebellion.

But this movie is certainly a divider of SW fans. And, I don't think it's going to reach the $2 billion mark which will probably tick Disney off a bit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 21, 2017, 12:28:09 PM
My current ranking would be:

Empire
A New Hope
Return of The Jedi
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

I’m not going to attempt to slot TLJ in until after a second viewing. At this point I’m thinking it was worse than TFA, but is it worse than any of the prequels? Will see after Saturday.

Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Syth
The Last Jedi
Phantom Menace
Rogue One
Attack of the Clones

^ I’m a bit surprised to see RO so low down. Did you really not like it very much?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2017, 12:36:19 PM
Yea, thought it was boring and had really uninteresting characters that I really didn't care at all about when they died.  Looked well made and had an awesome ending with Vader, but I actually fell asleep in the theater for a few minutes cause I was so uninterested, plus you knew the ending so it was all just meh.  I did debate internally about putting it above Phantom Menace though, but I actually enjoyed my first watch of that movie on some level, I really didn't care for RO at all at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2017, 12:42:04 PM
I feel like it's too early, but after I saw TLJ last Saturday, I immediately said, "That may be the best one yet."  I still feel that way, but I know I could very well lose interest and feel it doesn't age well as time goes by.  I really like what has been done since Disney took over, but I am REALLY expecting to not like Solo.  Then again, I fully expected to not like Rogue One either.  Anyhow, I guess my rankings at this moment would be:

The Last Jedi
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
Revenge of the Sith
The Phantom Menace
The Clone Wars
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 21, 2017, 01:00:00 PM
Fair comment about Rogue One, cram. It definitely had it’s ropey parts. Slow start, characters like Saw weren’t really fleshed out, some of the Vader dialogue was a bit strange and forced, but I thought the crescendo to the end of the movie redeemed it.

I’m wondering what it would be like to go back in time to 77/80/83 and view the original movies for the first time, but with my current 42 year old self’s eyes. What would I think of them? Would I see plot holes and undeveloped characters, and all that, or would I just get swept along for the ride?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2017, 01:12:55 PM
Yea, I think that's a good question.  Also, let those movies sit for 30 years too.  I only saw TLJ last night for the first time, maybe on future watches I realize I actually love it?  I definitely liked TFA more after my second watch. 

My coworker and I have talked a lot about TLJ today and he said "HBO has spoiled us" which got me thinking that it may be true.  Such awesome TV show productions have kind of leveled the playing field with big time movies.  HBO has had some really amazing acting as well. 

I'd like to also add that maybe my favorite new (well to in the latest trilogy) character is General Hux.  Him being trolled was a great scene.  But also his rivalry with Kylo is interesting to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 21, 2017, 01:43:37 PM
Yea, I think that's a good question.  Also, let those movies sit for 30 years too.  I only saw TLJ last night for the first time, maybe on future watches I realize I actually love it?  I definitely liked TFA more after my second watch. 

I've recently re-watched the OT, and I still love them. BUT...when you take a step back and try to separate the emotional connection and view them just as critically as TFA and TLJ have been viewed.....they have plenty of issues as well. It's just they are forgiven due to the fact the majority of us were very young and were just captivated by the story and all the cool stuff to where we overlooked things like Luke/Leah/Han being in some weird love triangle in ANH then suddenly Luke and Leah are siblings?

I hadn't watched TFA in probably a year prior to re-watching it a couple weeks ago and it aged well and I enjoyed it greatly. I'll probably go see TLJ two more times in the theaters....once in IMAX and probably take the kiddos to see it again and I can see myself enjoying it more each time.



My coworker and I have talked a lot about TLJ today and he said "HBO has spoiled us" which got me thinking that it may be true.  Such awesome TV show productions have kind of leveled the playing field with big time movies.  HBO has had some really amazing acting as well. 

It's not just HBO...there's a lot of great series/movies out there. NETFLIX, AMAZON....have great shows.....shoot 'Mr. Robot' on USA could possibly be the best show on air right now. Vikings on History channel....and I'm sure there are dozens others that are just Really Good. So many outlets for people to tell amazing stories....very spoiled.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2017, 02:03:53 PM
Yea, I think that's a good question.  Also, let those movies sit for 30 years too.  I only saw TLJ last night for the first time, maybe on future watches I realize I actually love it?  I definitely liked TFA more after my second watch. 

I've recently re-watched the OT, and I still love them. BUT...when you take a step back and try to separate the emotional connection and view them just as critically as TFA and TLJ have been viewed.....they have plenty of issues as well. It's just they are forgiven due to the fact the majority of us were very young and were just captivated by the story and all the cool stuff to where we overlooked things like Luke/Leah/Han being in some weird love triangle in ANH then suddenly Luke and Leah are siblings?

Well, and context matters as well.  We forgive a lot in ANH because nobody was doing sci-fi when it came out.  We've had a LOT of good sci-fi in the 40 years since then that we can now (unfairly) compare it to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2017, 02:25:22 PM
For me, I didn't even see the original trilogy until they released the newer editted versions in the theaters.  So for me, and I imagine other younger people, they OT was still watched up against other newer sci-fi classics.  For me, the OT was still really awesome.

My friend was saying that maybe my view of the attempt at comedy was a bit too much as maybe the SW audience is a bit younger.  I'm not sure I buy that.  There wasn't anyone laughing in my theater (packed last night) and I can't say if a younger version of myself would have found it funny.  Having said that, I did really enjoy the couple who oversaw the Jedi island and also the one shot of the iron that looked like it could have been a ship landing.  I thought those were good thought out comedic moments, the rest of the one liners were otherwise terribly not funny.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2017, 02:33:13 PM
The only slight spoiler I had going in (aside from the trailers themselves) was that I had heard the tone was very different from prior films, and that that was attributable to the humor.  That really made me nervous.  I was pleasantly surprised that I liked the humor.  I can't think of any jokes/humor that missed, unless you count the milk scene as "humor."  Well, actually, as I type this, there were also a few moments of slapstick humor on Canto Bight in the casino that didn't work for me.  But I thought that those slapstick bits were actually very consistent with what Lucas gave us in ROTJ and the PT films, so I felt they were easy to overlook as just part of the SW universe anyway.  I was fine with that aspect of the film and actively enjoyed a good deal of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2017, 02:52:02 PM
But I thought that those slapstick bits were actually very consistent with what Lucas gave us in ROTJ and the PT films, so I felt they were easy to overlook as just part of the SW universe anyway.  I was fine with that aspect of the film and actively enjoyed a good deal of it.

I agree with that too, and that's a big part of the PT that I didn't like either.  Which really I guess just comes down to execution for me.  There was nothing inherently wrong with it, it just didn't work out for my tastes, and I kind of felt most of the movie went that way. 

A lot of people didn't like some of the plots of Luke's character (Mark Hamill himself didn't like it I read today) but none of that really bothered me.  I actually kind of dug the story in this one.  Luke, to me, had one of the most interesting storylines in this episode and actually had a arc fleshed out from beginning to end of the movie.  I liked that.  It may have not been totally within the character that Lucas created in the OT, but I do think it did work.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 21, 2017, 04:24:35 PM
Mark hamil's thoughts on Luke in TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2017, 04:45:42 PM
Mark hamil's thoughts on Luke in TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A

I had read those comments, but hadn't seen the clip.  A couple of thoughts:

First, he isn't really saying what some of the headlines of articles that quote parts of that say that he is saying.  He isn't saying he "hates" the new film.  It's more that the interpretation of Luke's character in this trilogy is so different than what he thought the character should be that it was (and still is) having difficulty wrapping his mind around how the same Luke could have arrived at the mindset we find him in in TLJ.

Second, notwithstanding that he played the character of Luke Skywalker and, as such, had to internalize the character and come up with his own deep understanding of what motivated Luke, he is wrong that that same Luke couldn't have, 30 years later, become THIS Luke.  The motivation is there by the backstory given by Abrams and Johnson, and if he doesn't understand that, he doesn't really understand human nature.  If he disagrees that Luke wouldn't have arrived at that mindset, that's cool.  But he can't really disagree that Luke couldn't have arrived there.

Third, again, despite the fact that he WAS Luke, Mark Hammill is, at the end of the day (1) just an actor and not the creative vision behind the character, and (2) just kind of is and always has been a bit odd in the way he thinks about things.  If you go back and read/watch interviews through the years, he always has been.  And he disagreed with and was outspoken about a lot of Lucas' vision of the character as well, which he seems to have forgotten. 

So, at the end of the day, his opinion does mean something.  But it doesn't mean a lot.  If anything, the job he did with Luke in this film, both in terms of quality and in terms of him being able to pull it off despite apparently serious misgivings, shows that his acting chops have grown quite a bit. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On a completely different note, this is infuriating:

Quote
One big question writer/direct Rian Johnson left fans with was—again, spoiler warning—who is that Force-sensitive child at the end of the film? Predictably, there are already theories about the kid's identity and the role he may play in Episode IX.

Fan theories about who the kid is and what role he will play completely miss the point of Ep. VIII.  He is nobody.  And he will probably NOT show up again.  He doesn't need to.  That's the point.  If he shows up and is a significant character, that pretty much undermines one of the major themes of this film.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: noxon on December 21, 2017, 06:01:36 PM
I loved The Last Jedi, and I am a huge Star Wars fan. I do not get the outrage about the movie at all. The flaws in the movie is nothing worse than any flaws in any of the other movies - they've always been movies that we loved BECAUSE of the silly stuff ;)

Here's an interesting article going through a bit of what the series was originally supposed to be like:

https://www.gamesradar.com/the-secret-history-of-the-star-wars-movies-we-never-got-to-see-and-one-that-could-still-happen/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TioJorge on December 22, 2017, 01:43:09 AM
I'm not putting spoiler warnings because if you're in here not expecting spoilers, you deserve to be spoiled; that said I won't be saying anything totally abrupt and obvious. Saw it, I enjoyed it. I'm not into SW much, and thus this is through the eyes of someone that quite literally saw it because it was a good date night and there was nothing else out that looked remotely up my ally. So pretty much like every other SW movie I've seen.

So things that stood out to me as someone viewing the series as such, the EXTREMELY Marvel-esque comedy routine jumped right out at me, some in a great way, but most in a "eh, reaching" way. Nothing that was as cringe inducing as many describe but noticeable nonetheless. Also very surprised they killed off two very (one seemingly, one obviously) important characters in a fairly quick fashion (maybe?). It was awesome seeing the OG shorty master and I thought the way they portrayed him was really perfect; the scene was really touching and introspective (par the course for his scenes) and it was to the point and didn't have too much fan service.

Overall I thought it was really fun. Definitely had some of the greatest sci/fi aerial battle scenes I've ever seen, that initial dreadnaught scene with Poe was just awesome and really set the tone for the action. It's really funny seeing so many people rage like temperamental teens over this though (hardly read the thread at all so I'm not talking about anyone here), and makes me think about series that I care about just as much that I may overreact to or may be jaded and blind to towards certain aspects. Because it's very obvious some people had and held expectations that were never going to be met. That's clear with most hardcore fans of anything, but it truly seems like SW fans just take that shit and get as serious as a fucking heroine addiction with it. And meth. And cocaine. And alcohol. And skooma. Fucking psychos, some of you bastards.  :lol :-*

(Seriously though, I've felt the same, it's just funny being on the outside for once; that doesn't happen all that often with me)

Ed: Going through some previous comments. If I had any thoughts on Luke, it'd probably be what Bosk has said. I can see why fans would be confused/angry over his extreme turn in the movie. I can also see how they are abso-fucking-lutely letting their own fantasy of what the character "should" be to them get in the way of what was actually shown in the movies. When you like something so much that it becomes more than just a "whatever" (game/movie/book/song), you fantasize about it and in a way make it your own, tailor it to your own self. Which can be great, but it can also lose what is actually there somewhere along the line. A whole hell of a lot of people had theories that were pulled straight from the very depths of people's asses.

Speaking as someone who has seen the movies a few times and other than playing KOTOR, has no other SW knowledge, I thought the turn was surprising but also could be followed very logically and realistic. The whole problem with it is that we have no info other than the extremely short bursts of backstory we get in the movie itself. There was no easing and transition. Last we saw Luke, he was the shining poster boy for all things Light. Then we're thrown into the current film and he is a totally different character. That'd be jarring for any character and with that much of a time skip. No one in the world, however big a fan, can really say jack about any character change when there is that much of a gap in time and that little info about said change. With what he said in the movie and what crumbs they gave us, it all fits together about as nicely as it can considering that. What's funny is that so many of the people protesting such change always refer back to fantasy scenarios with what Luke "should've" been or what Luke "would've" done, yadda yadda. Again, idealistic thoughts for what they want the character to be. There's really nothing to cite other than...well, the originals, and who the hell can accurately compare a young adult to an old man and with the info of what amounts to a few fleeting moments say "yes, I understand how he became who he is today". Nobody.

Ed ed: Wow I wrote a lot more than I thought I would. Well the movie got me to speak more about SW than I ever have before soooo...  :tup :tup :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cruithne on December 22, 2017, 03:51:10 AM
1.) In the moment that Rey sees Kylo Ren shirtless......he has no visible laser wound on his side where Chewbacca shot him? I'm guessing it's been what, a matter of three or four days....a week?

Whilst TLJ essentially picks up straight where TFA left off, the amount of time Rey actually spends on the island with Luke is unspecified movie time and we don't know when the opening of the film is in relation to Rey's time on the island... they don't put captions up on the screen in Star Wars films saying things like "Three months earlier", so we have to take an (un)educated guess.

Anyway. I'd have to watch the scene when he gets shot again and compare it to the shirtless scene to see if the impact point should actually be visible.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 22, 2017, 04:40:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08fHeAWWiU

Usually I don't post reviews, but this one made me  :angry:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Podaar on December 22, 2017, 05:42:51 AM
I'm not putting spoiler warnings because if you're in here not expecting spoilers, you deserve to be spoiled; that said I won't be saying anything totally abrupt and obvious. Saw it, I enjoyed it. I'm not into SW much, and thus this is through the eyes of someone that quite literally saw it because it was a good date night and there was nothing else out that looked remotely up my ally. So pretty much like every other SW movie I've seen.

So things that stood out to me as someone viewing the series as such, the EXTREMELY Marvel-esque comedy routine jumped right out at me, some in a great way, but most in a "eh, reaching" way. Nothing that was as cringe inducing as many describe but noticeable nonetheless. Also very surprised they killed off two very (one seemingly, one obviously) important characters in a fairly quick fashion (maybe?). It was awesome seeing the OG shorty master and I thought the way they portrayed him was really perfect; the scene was really touching and introspective (par the course for his scenes) and it was to the point and didn't have too much fan service.

Overall I thought it was really fun. Definitely had some of the greatest sci/fi aerial battle scenes I've ever seen, that initial dreadnaught scene with Poe was just awesome and really set the tone for the action. It's really funny seeing so many people rage like temperamental teens over this though (hardly read the thread at all so I'm not talking about anyone here), and makes me think about series that I care about just as much that I may overreact to or may be jaded and blind to towards certain aspects. Because it's very obvious some people had and held expectations that were never going to be met. That's clear with most hardcore fans of anything, but it truly seems like SW fans just take that shit and get as serious as a fucking heroine addiction with it. And meth. And cocaine. And alcohol. And skooma. Fucking psychos, some of you bastards.  :lol :-*

(Seriously though, I've felt the same, it's just funny being on the outside for once; that doesn't happen all that often with me)

Ed: Going through some previous comments. If I had any thoughts on Luke, it'd probably be what Bosk has said. I can see why fans would be confused/angry over his extreme turn in the movie. I can also see how they are abso-fucking-lutely letting their own fantasy of what the character "should" be to them get in the way of what was actually shown in the movies. When you like something so much that it becomes more than just a "whatever" (game/movie/book/song), you fantasize about it and in a way make it your own, tailor it to your own self. Which can be great, but it can also lose what is actually there somewhere along the line. A whole hell of a lot of people had theories that were pulled straight from the very depths of people's asses.

Speaking as someone who has seen the movies a few times and other than playing KOTOR, has no other SW knowledge, I thought the turn was surprising but also could be followed very logically and realistic. The whole problem with it is that we have no info other than the extremely short bursts of backstory we get in the movie itself. There was no easing and transition. Last we saw Luke, he was the shining poster boy for all things Light. Then we're thrown into the current film and he is a totally different character. That'd be jarring for any character and with that much of a time skip. No one in the world, however big a fan, can really say jack about any character change when there is that much of a gap in time and that little info about said change. With what he said in the movie and what crumbs they gave us, it all fits together about as nicely as it can considering that. What's funny is that so many of the people protesting such change always refer back to fantasy scenarios with what Luke "should've" been or what Luke "would've" done, yadda yadda. Again, idealistic thoughts for what they want the character to be. There's really nothing to cite other than...well, the originals, and who the hell can accurately compare a young adult to an old man and with the info of what amounts to a few fleeting moments say "yes, I understand how he became who he is today". Nobody.

Ed ed: Wow I wrote a lot more than I thought I would. Well the movie got me to speak more about SW than I ever have before soooo...  :tup :tup :lol

Great post, TJ. I agree with everything that isn't explicitly vulgar, which could be said for every post you've ever made on this forum.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 22, 2017, 07:48:34 AM
I didn't have problem with the humor. I've been very impressed with every answer the director has given in regards to some the controversial choices he made. He was focused on story and character development, not fan service. This is why TLJ and Empire are in my opinion the two best Star Wars Films. They both took risks and are really not like any of the other films.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 22, 2017, 08:15:44 AM
1.) In the moment that Rey sees Kylo Ren shirtless......he has no visible laser wound on his side where Chewbacca shot him? I'm guessing it's been what, a matter of three or four days....a week?

Whilst TLJ essentially picks up straight where TFA left off, the amount of time Rey actually spends on the island with Luke is unspecified movie time and we don't know when the opening of the film is in relation to Rey's time on the island... they don't put captions up on the screen in Star Wars films saying things like "Three months earlier", so we have to take an (un)educated guess.

Is there an 'agreed upon' estimate of how much time has passed? Finn is just waking up from his wound/hospital stay.....Ren's wounds are healed/near healed....tough to say how many days Rey has been on the island....3 or 4? Maybe a week has gone by?

Anyway. I'd have to watch the scene when he gets shot again and compare it to the shirtless scene to see if the impact point should actually be visible.

Having just watched it....it looks to me that it was his left/lower rib cage....with a mix of maybe a glancing blow or just right on his side. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 22, 2017, 08:16:28 AM
I didn't have problem with the humor. I've been very impressed with every answer the director has given in regards to some the controversial choices he made. He was focused on story and character development, not fan service. This is why TLJ and Empire are in my opinion the two best Star Wars Films. They both took risks and are really not like any of the other films.

totally that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 22, 2017, 08:34:28 AM
I'm gonna be that guy and chime in that pretty much every joke fell flat for me. They all felt terribly out of place and kind of embarrassing.  :P
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 22, 2017, 08:57:56 AM
I'm gonna be that guy and chime in that pretty much every joke fell flat for me. They all felt terribly out of place and kind of embarrassing.  :P

I'd say, for me personally, about 80% or so missed completely. I can't think of too many that took me out of the movie, but there were a few.



Also I really like the director's ideas and intentions, I'm just not sold on the execution for all of it. A good idea isn't a good execution.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TioJorge on December 22, 2017, 10:43:02 AM
Big post is big.

Great post, TJ. I agree with everything that isn't explicitly vulgar, which could be said for every post you've ever made on this forum.  :lol

 :P Thanks! To my credit that's a lot less vulgar than my posts a year or two ago.  :angel: I had a whole lot of coffee yesterday evening. Oops!

I'll echo the statements made about the director's comments, he's been fairly neutral and even keeled about the whole thing and you gotta respect that when there's a whole lot of people doing the exact opposite and basically grabbing pitchforks en masse. It really seems to me that the vast majority of the people who abhorrently defy the film are those that could be considered big fans. That's obviously not always the case (especially here), but I think it does speak volumes about hype and expectations in general (also fan theories).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: masterthes on December 22, 2017, 10:51:04 AM
regarding if Kylo Ren was telling the truth about Rey's parents:  If they were truly nobodies, how would he even know that/who they were?
Here's a really weird, out there theory: did Han have any siblings? 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 22, 2017, 11:05:38 AM
regarding if Kylo Ren was telling the truth about Rey's parents:  If they were truly nobodies, how would he even know that/who they were?
Here's a really weird, out there theory: did Han have any siblings? 
Not that we know of.  My initial reaction to a theory like that is that it would seem too out of nowhere and, thus, contrived.  But who knows?  I suppose it could be done in a way that is convincing enough. 

As far as Kylo Ren knowing, if he is indeed telling the truth, I'm sure there are plausible ways he could have found out, especially with his powers. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 22, 2017, 11:37:45 AM
Kylo was digging around in Rey's head in TFA so maybe he saw her parent then.

In regards to the outrage from fans, I'm not sure really where that's coming from. I'd say 90% of the people I know who are star wars fans loved it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 22, 2017, 11:40:59 AM
Mark hamil's thoughts on Luke in TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A

My problem with his comments is the timing. Why throw fuel on the fire? I can't imagine Disney was happy with that.  Based on the other cannon, specifically Rebels and The Clone Wars, I think it's very realistic for a jedi to do what Luke did. I never thought that Luke gave up. I viewed it more that he was sacrificing himself via seclusion to protect others whom he loved. There are lots of examples of Jedi losing confidence and needing a shove in the right direction which is why Yoda showed up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 22, 2017, 01:12:33 PM
Kylo was digging around in Rey's head in TFA so maybe he saw her parent then.
But how would he know they are dead in a pauper's grave or whatever it was that he said? He couldn't have learned that from Rey's mind. Either he has powers to search the galaxy for specific people, he did some research after learning about then through Rey's mind, or was making shit up to get what he wanted from her. Personally I think they never address how he knew and that what he said was correct, but it is a bit of a gap.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 22, 2017, 01:49:44 PM
This is more of a half-baked observation than anything else, but I feel like backlashes are becoming the norm, at least with regards to huge franchises. I first saw it happen with the Mass Effect series a few years back when people didn't like the ending. It started happening with Game of Thrones this year when people felt the writing dropped off. It happened with the DC Universe. Now it's happening with Star Wars.

We can debate all day about why these backlashes are happening and whether they're justified. I just feel like they're becoming more and more common, for whatever reason, you know?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TioJorge on December 22, 2017, 01:56:55 PM
Eh, I mean all of those series you mentioned have huge legions of zealots as well, I'd say that's the main factor and no coincidence.  :lol

I get what you're saying though, but I feel like that kind of culture is just apart of the internet and I feel like it's been around pretty much as long as millions of people have had a voice has.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 22, 2017, 02:09:29 PM
Kylo was digging around in Rey's head in TFA so maybe he saw her parent then.
But how would he know they are dead in a pauper's grave or whatever it was that he said? He couldn't have learned that from Rey's mind. Either he has powers to search the galaxy for specific people, he did some research after learning about then through Rey's mind, or was making shit up to get what he wanted from her. Personally I think they never address how he knew and that what he said was correct, but it is a bit of a gap.

Sure he could.  She could very easily have suppressed memories from childhood - especially traumatic ones.  Or, he maybe he's bullshitting her.  Either way, this story point was not one of the (many) problems/annoyances with the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 22, 2017, 02:14:02 PM
Xanadu, I think you're right. But I also think that huge corporations lazily making products that will simply sell and then be immediately forgotten as become a big thing. Not saying that's what TLJ is, but many big movies nowadays feel like that.

TLJ isn't the worst thing ever. It doesn't need to have petitions saying it should be written out of canon. I thought the characters were amazing, and it had some of the greatest star wars moments ever. Over all it just had too many issues for me to say it was great. That's just my opinion though. I don't think it ruined anything of is some sort of scar on the star wars universe like some people are making it out to be.

At the same time I find it interesting that so many more people are coming out now and saying TFA was terrible, when I actually thought it was totally solid. Not AMAZING, but definitely good. All these new movies seem like they are just going to be really polarizing from now on...so basically we'll always be arguing about the latest star wars movie during every future holiday season.  :|

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 22, 2017, 02:45:25 PM
Finally saw TLJ and loved just about everything about it. Going to let it marinate for a few days before attempting to rank.

I do think Snoke is still alive and that Kylo Ren Mary Poppined his mom back to the ship.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 22, 2017, 02:46:44 PM
Kylo Ren Mary Poppined his mom back to the ship.

That's an interesting theory I hadn't thought of.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 22, 2017, 02:53:28 PM
At the same time I find it interesting that so many more people are coming out now and saying TFA was terrible, when I actually thought it was totally solid. Not AMAZING, but definitely good. All these new movies seem like they are just going to be really polarizing from now on...so basically we'll always be arguing about the latest star wars movie during every future holiday season.  :|

Trying to please the entire Star Wars fanbase, is pretty much a no win situation at this point.

I have lost count at the amount of rage filled meltdown videos, i've encountered on youtube this past week regarding TLJ.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 22, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
Probably better for the humour thread, but whatever.

Don't Stop Darth Vader (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F19hsXoBdw0)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 23, 2017, 01:29:11 AM
For those boring people (like me) who follow box office numbers - TLJ is currently well down on where the Force Awakens was after a week, but up on Rogue One.  If that trend continues its heading for around 1,5 billion worldwide.    if the backlash is genuine then it could end up lower, and it misses out on the all important repeat viewing, this second weekend drop off will tell us more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 23, 2017, 06:57:37 AM
So, did every single person on the casino planet get rich from selling weapons or was that just an overassumption from Rose?

This is her quote:

"Who do you think these people are, there's only one business that will get you this rich, selling weapons to the first order"

I thought only Sith deal in absolutes?  ;)

Rose gets super judgmental and high and mighty, yet the rebellion has done some nasty, guerrilla warfare shady shit to survive over the years. They aren't squeaky clean and free of criticism, and those in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

And I was shocked that the first order's sensors didn't pick up on Finn and rose flying away from the fleet on their way to the casino planet. In ANH, the empire was ready to blow up a tiny escape pod seconds after it launched. A way they could have given Phasma more to do would have been to have her track the ship to the casino planet and unravel or antagonize Finn/roses plans. 

And also, Ren and his 3 back up tie fighters were now out of range of the First order's cover fire, so they were called back. Well, they have hundreds if not thousands of tie fighters (and disposable pilots) that they could just launch and decimate the last remaining pieces of the resistance. Like a chess game, sacrificing pawns could have gotten them the checkmate. But instead we got the slow speed pursuit.

And are we really to believe that in all that time on the island, Rey never once asks "hey, who's this Snoke guy", seriously?  Knowing nothing about this villain or his motivations makes him flat and one-dimensional. And I was actually really getting into his character. Just one single scene with a couple mins of luke saying "here's the deal with snoke" or even him at the the least acknowledging like "rey, I don't know where this evil presence came from, but I do know that he has immense power and is not to be underestimated" throw me a bone

And why does luke/anakin's lightsaber "call to" some random junk orphan girl. Since when do inanimate objects call to people? I found that strange while watching TFA but was like "well, its got all this history and heavy emotions surrounding it from it's skywalker users, so maybe it would react a little to a skywalker". That stretch I was willing to accept, but not to some random junk girl who is nobody and came from nothing and is just some nobody. And if she was a skywalker, then I could kind of buy her inate abilities, but being nobody who came from nothing special, for her to be a master fighter, master pilot, master engineer, master jedi and defeater of a trained, experienced heir of Vader for god's sake is bullshit. I dismissed her being a mary sue in TFA since I thought there would be some justification, but now as far as I'm concerned is 100% Mary sue and a very boring character for that. Ultimately, I would be totally cool with her coming from nothing, but there should be a struggle and effort for her success and ability. For it to come without earning or working for anything makes for a boing character that I can't invest in.

And the impression I got from TFA is that Luke went to the island to gain some knowledge, recover and rise from the ashes stronger than before so that he could face his unfinished business of Ren and Snoke. Not someone who just gave up. TLJ luke thinks the best thing to do is let the Jedi end, but by doing so he's willingly letting the Dark side rise. I just can't get behind that. And if you absolutely don't want to be found and absolutely want to just give up, then why provide a map of how to get to you. I took away from TFA that he was like "I'm going away so I can get my shit together. If shit really hits the fan before I am back, then here's a way for you to get to me, and then we will figure out a plan from there".   TFA and TLJ just feel so wildly different and unconnected.

The score is weak as well. Nothing really memorable, with the exception of the re-used themes from previous films. And in all honesty I don't put the fault with john williams. The dude's 85 for god's sake and he's delivered more than enough excellent material throughout his career. So it is what it is.

The more I think about The last jedi, the more I realize that its just like sand. Its coarse and rough and it gets everywhere. Ugh...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2017, 07:26:44 AM
I'd say definitely an assumption/exaggeration on her part (wouldn't expect her to really know), although as we later found out, these people apparently sell stuff to the good guys too, even though the good guys now consists of 5 people on a second hand ship.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 23, 2017, 09:12:59 AM
*snip*
The more I think about The last jedi, the more I realize that its just like sand. Its coarse and rough and it gets everywhere. Ugh...

:clap:

And I agree with you 100% again.

I'd say definitely an assumption/exaggeration on her part (wouldn't expect her to really know), although as we later found out, these people apparently sell stuff to the good guys too, even though the good guys now consists of 5 people on a second hand ship.

Not just ANY second hand ship, one that did the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 23, 2017, 10:54:40 AM
Just back from a second viewing, and fair play, it was a bit better the second time around. Some parts were still as bad - that floating Leia scenes is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen - but most bits that annoyed me last time were less grating this time. Some things about Luke still bug me, but there is more to like than there is to dislike.

Even the humour, even though I still found it misplaced at times, I have to grudgingly admit that it’s the humour of this generation, not mine.

So do I like it better than TFA? It’s close, but I think TLJ may just sit ahead of it, but still behind Rogue One for me. I think my original 6/10 rating may go up a point, but will let it settle some more before deciding.

One thing I’d say though is that it’s too long. 10 or 15 mins less would have felt like a more comfortable length.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 23, 2017, 03:41:37 PM
Alright. Just saw it for the second time. My opinion right now is that it’s an enjoyable movie with great moments. I must admit that I probably overhyped myself on this one. I got myself thinking it would be the second coming, but there ain’t no problem with a merely “fun” Star Wars flick.

My current rankings:

Tier I: Empire, ANH, TFA
Tier II: Return, Last
Tier III: Rogue, Sith
Tier IV: Menace, Clones

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 23, 2017, 05:11:42 PM
1. Empire
2. Rogue 1
3. TFA
4. RotS
5. RotJ
6. ANH
7. PM
8. Clones
9. TLJ
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 23, 2017, 06:02:38 PM
1. Revenge of the Sith
2. The Phantom Menace
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. The Force Awakens
5. Rogue One
6. Return of the Jedi
7. Attack of the Clones
8. A New Hope


Will include The Last Jedi after its had time to settle....but I see it landing somewhere in the middle.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: noxon on December 23, 2017, 06:04:12 PM
54R786231
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 24, 2017, 04:54:19 AM
1. Empire
2. Force Awakens
3. Last Jedi
4. Return
5. New Hope
--
--
6. Rogue One
7. Phantom Menace
8. Clones
9. Revenge
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 24, 2017, 07:28:03 AM
I think that TLJ did suffer from not having the 3 plus years of development that the other films had. Disney's zeal for having something Star Wars to sell every December may have hurt this one a bit. However can't blame Disney for cashing in if the consumer is willing to pay.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on December 24, 2017, 11:57:31 AM
I saw the film only once so far, and while I thought it was good, I was disappointed. Same things that most people were criticizing:

- Killing Snoke without giving his background was the biggest problem for me, given that he was so mysterious in TFA
- Little to no character development
- Bad humor just for the sake of it
- Luke's entire role in this movie - something just seemed off to me
- Leia's Superman moment - what was RJ thinking??

I gotta see the movie again, hopefully my opinion changes but right now, I rank this one towards the bottom
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: orcus116 on December 24, 2017, 02:17:46 PM
Was I the only one who didn't really have any feeling either way about Snoke? Even from the first movie I kept seeing him mentioned and I had to struggle to remember who he was because he's been handled in both movies as a really sterile plot device and nothing else.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 24, 2017, 02:23:12 PM
Was I the only one who didn't really have any feeling either way about Snoke? Even from the first movie I kept seeing him mentioned and I had to struggle to remember who he was because he's been handled in both movies as a really sterile plot device and nothing else.

Yea, I keep seeing Snoke being pointless and Rey's parents being a misdirect as a bad thing. I'm fine with her parent's being nobodies. Snoke....eh. I think that was JJ's fault for trying to make it all mysterious and out of sync with everything else we know about that universe.

Dude seems VERY powerful, and very old. Yet NO ONE had any idea who he was before this? No one sensed a major Sith player? But in the end, you're right. He was never important.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 24, 2017, 03:33:13 PM
I loved the movie. I like being challenged and as a 41 year old, this is my franchise and I had no complaints. I've seen every film in the theater since Return of the Jedi.

The biggest thing I am struggling with is people's total disbelief in Luke. Have they not seen the prior films?

First time we see Obi-wan - he is an hermit living in isolation on a desert planet with the cred of a wackjob.
Yoda - living as a hermit in isolation on a rain-forest planet with no interaction outside of creatures in the forest.
Luke after being a Jedi master - living as a hermit in isolation on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere on an unknown planet.

How is this a stretch? It seems that after you become a Master, things don't exactly work out the way you planned and you end up in hiding trying to live out your days.

In this day and age, it seems that people can't find enjoyment in anything. They go into something just waiting to pick it apart rather than just enjoying the ride and end up bashing the content creators. I could never come up with stuff like this. Thankfully, it allows me to garner more enjoyment than most, it seems, out of music/movies/TV. I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 24, 2017, 03:38:32 PM
I loved the movie. I like being challenged and as a 41 year old, this is my franchise and I had no complaints. I've seen every film in the theater since Return of the Jedi.

The biggest thing I am struggling with is people's total disbelief in Luke. Have they not seen the prior films?

First time we see Obi-wan - he is an hermit living in isolation on a desert planet with the cred of a wackjob.
Yoda - living as a hermit in isolation on a rain-forest planet with no interaction outside of creatures in the forest.
Luke after being a Jedi master - living as a hermit in isolation on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere on an unknown planet.

How is this a stretch? It seems that after you become a Master, things don't exactly work out the way you planned and you end up in hiding trying to live out your days.

In this day and age, it seems that people can't find enjoyment in anything. They go into something just waiting to pick it apart rather than just enjoying the ride and end up bashing the content creators. I could never come up with stuff like this. Thankfully, it allows me to garner more enjoyment than most, it seems, out of music/movies/TV. I'm fine with that.

I think you're not understanding the arguments against the Luke thing. Personally, I really liked where they brought his character, so this isn't an issue with me.

However, the issue other people have isn't that he's a hermit living on an island. It's that he has abandoned the force and think the Jedi need to end. It's that basic mentality.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 24, 2017, 06:17:13 PM
Greatest Star Wars post I’ve ever seen!!! ROFLMBO

By Gus Krieger

This EMPIRE STRIKES BACK movie doesn’t make any sense at all. So they blow up the Death Star but the Empire’s just like NOT AFFECTED? They can still show up anywhere and do anything? Glad so many rebel pilots sacrificed themselves in A NEW HOPE, I guess. Plus uuuhhhh I don’t think humans can survive in the arctic overnight with just a coat or some animal intestines. It’s called Biology 101. And since when can smugglers use lightsabers?? Oh and I guess now we have ghosts in this universe too. Ugh. To make no mention of the tiny insane frog person who’s apparently the galaxy’s GREATEST JEDI MASTER?! Gimme a break. And while Luke is training, Han and Leia (who have NO IMPACT on the overall plot) get captured in like two seconds, so when Luke goes to rescue them, he’s done his massive grand Jedi training in, what, forty-eight hours?! Makes no sense. And don’t even get me started on this “I am your father” horse crap. A whole entire galaxy and Vader JUST HAPPENED to be passing over his freaking ESTRANGED SON’S home planet when he lost the Death Star plans one movie earlier??? SMH. And OHMYGOD the ultimate cheap-ass-machina when Leia just kinda INTUITS they should turn around and go pick up dangling Luke. The franchise has officially jumped the shark. Hoping Marquand can turn it around for Episode VI, but I’m not holding my breath.

(In unrelated news, “The Last Jedi” is the best Star Wars film in over thirty years.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 24, 2017, 06:29:57 PM
What Adami said.  Obi-Wan and Yoda still had their sense of duty to the Jedi ways, and still acted to help in the opposition of the Empire.  Luke was flippant and obstinate about everything from the first scene, tossing the lightsaber aside.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 24, 2017, 06:40:44 PM
The more I think about the context of the entire thing, I thought it fit perfectly.   He's bitter.    The "legend status" had him thinking he could do anything....and then then coming face to face with his own failure dropped him all the way to the bottom after being on top of the world.   Completely a natural response.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 24, 2017, 06:46:18 PM
The more I think about the context of the entire thing, I thought it fit perfectly.   He's bitter.    The "legend status" had him thinking he could do anything....and then then coming face to face with his own failure dropped him all the way to the bottom after being on top of the world.   Completely a natural response.

Yup!

Him tossing the light saber was still poorly executed.


I agree with Destiny in that it feels like the production was too fast for the movie. I think it could have benefited from another year or so of reflection on the script and so forth. It had some brilliant ideas that seemed a bit half baked.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 25, 2017, 02:05:04 AM
The more I think about the context of the entire thing, I thought it fit perfectly.   He's bitter.    The "legend status" had him thinking he could do anything....and then then coming face to face with his own failure dropped him all the way to the bottom after being on top of the world.   Completely a natural response.

Yup!

Him tossing the light saber was still poorly executed.


I agree with Destiny in that it feels like the production was too fast for the movie. I think it could have benefited from another year or so of reflection on the script and so forth. It had some brilliant ideas that seemed a bit half baked.

Agree with both post's!

I disagree with some people (and even Mark Hamill apparently?) who say that it is not Luke Skywalker in this movie. He feels 100 percent like Luke. He's just Luke that has been dragged to hell and back, and then back to hell again. He's character arc is one of the best things about this movie!

Some things in the story could have been tighter. They could have used a bit more time with the production. But overall the positives far outweigh the negatives for me..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: King Postwhore on December 25, 2017, 06:31:05 AM
What Adami said.  Obi-Wan and Yoda still had their sense of duty to the Jedi ways, and still acted to help in the opposition of the Empire.  Luke was flippant and obstinate about everything from the first scene, tossing the lightsaber aside.


I actually love that.  Not everybody act the same in real life so why would every Jedi react the same?  He let his emotions get the best of him.  He saw the dark and did not look past that.  A human emotion that I was glad to see.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 25, 2017, 07:57:39 AM
What Adami said.  Obi-Wan and Yoda still had their sense of duty to the Jedi ways, and still acted to help in the opposition of the Empire.  Luke was flippant and obstinate about everything from the first scene, tossing the lightsaber aside.


I actually love that.  Not everybody act the same in real life so why would every Jedi react the same?  He let his emotions get the best of him.  He saw the dark and did not look past that.  A human emotion that I was glad to see.

I see your point, but I still think you're full of shit.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: King Postwhore on December 25, 2017, 08:35:05 AM
Well yeah but.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on December 25, 2017, 03:21:27 PM
Seeing the movie a second time definitely made me like it better.  Pretty much every specific complaint I had the first time around I realize I was over reacting about.  I mainly thought the story didn't feel like the middle of a trilogy (maybe wanted more of a cliffhanger?) and thought they should have developed Rey's character better.  But second time around I don't feel that way at all.  I thought Rey's character grew into something quite interesting (she was my favorite character from the film), and the story really kind of is at a cliff hanger in a way (can't think of the resistance being at more of a desperate state, and the First Order still has the upper hand).  And, it definitely doesn't feel like "the Jedi's" are going away (Luke said Kylo was wrong about him being the last Jedi, and you see that Rey has the Jedi books).

Great movie.  Not quite ready to rate it higher than TFA yet having only seeing it twice, but it's definitely jumped above the prequels for me.  My current rating is 4765832R1.  (I'm not a huge fan of Rogue one as you can see...  It's a decent movie, but doesn't have the replay value that the others have).  I imagine a few more views once I buy the blu ray and it may move up a couple spaces in my ranking, possibly.

edit:  One other thing that jumped out at me, that I don't recall being discussed (maybe it has and I missed it)...  Kylo told Hux when they were checking out Snoke's dead body that "the girl" killed Snoke.  Is that a possibility considering Snoke was supposedly reading Kylo's mind at the time of his death?  Or is it a clear lie from Kylo?  I would like to assume that Kylo did it, but then why would he even say that to Hux?  I would think he'd want to take responsibility for it and immediately instill fear as someone clearly stronger than Snoke. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 25, 2017, 06:06:26 PM
I think Ren was lying to Hux. Snokes attention was directed at keeping Rey immobilized so he’d have sniffed that out if it were her.

I think Ren fully betrayed Snoke and it was all him who killed him. His fist clenched to light the saber as well so I think it was Ren.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 25, 2017, 06:13:10 PM
Yea, Ben killed Snoke. It was actually pretty clever doing both lightsabers at the same time so that he didn't notice.

He told Huxtable that Rey did it because I'm pretty sure the first order isn't cool with Klingon style promotions.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 25, 2017, 08:15:10 PM
Rumors that the Solo movie is going to suck. Not tremendously surprised, but still a bummer if it turns out to be true. Disney is bound to make a bad Star Wars movie eventually (I know many think TLJ is bad, but I don't.)

https://screenrant.com/han-solo-movie-bomb-disney-lucasfilm/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 25, 2017, 08:17:52 PM
It'll probably be mostly fine, but all things considered, it's going to stick out like a bit of a sore thumb in the box office. No way that movie does big numbers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 25, 2017, 08:24:06 PM
I doubt it's *quite* as dire as they're suggesting, but I don't have high hopes for it at all, and I can't believe they're still going with a May release. Push it back to December and get it right. They'll lose a lot of goodwill having TLJ and Solo back to back, especially in the span of half a year. I think they'll be a lot more cautious going forward with who they trust to direct.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 25, 2017, 08:32:38 PM
I agree, push it back to December. Hopefully they'll learn that slapping Star Wars in the title isn't enough to make a movie successful.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 25, 2017, 08:33:56 PM
I doubt it's *quite* as dire as they're suggesting, but I don't have high hopes for it at all, and I can't believe they're still going with a May release. Push it back to December and get it right. They'll lose a lot of goodwill having TLJ and Solo back to back, especially in the span of half a year. I think they'll be a lot more cautious going forward with who they trust to direct.

Still time to change it. I just assumed December was universal Star Wars moth from now on. Seems to work.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 25, 2017, 08:40:20 PM
I doubt it's *quite* as dire as they're suggesting, but I don't have high hopes for it at all, and I can't believe they're still going with a May release. Push it back to December and get it right. They'll lose a lot of goodwill having TLJ and Solo back to back, especially in the span of half a year. I think they'll be a lot more cautious going forward with who they trust to direct.

Still time to change it. I just assumed December was universal Star Wars moth from now on. Seems to work.

It seems to be the thing now to initially announce a May release then change it to December. I would have thought it would be a pretty late stage to change the release date by that much though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 25, 2017, 09:56:48 PM
I saw it tonight and just had a big ol' post written up airing every one of grievances but I'm going to sleep on it. For now, this movie sucks. I enjoyed it until the credits rolled and then after I left the theater my friend and I started bouncing our questions and problems off each other and boy howdy absolutely nothing holds up to analysis. Awful. Ocean wide, puddle deep, this trilogy. Episode IX probably isn't going to answer anything meaningful either and introduce another handful of characters that'll either die by the end or fall by the wayside along the heap of other useless garbage they foisted upon us here.

Very good effects though with an amazing lightsaber fight scene and some absolutely stunning cinematic shots (the shots after Holdo hits the Supremacy, WHOA).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 26, 2017, 08:55:23 PM
Just got back from my second viewing. I loved it this time. Still a couple minor issues, but overall I really like this movie. I think my reservations from the first viewing mostly stemmed from it just not being what I expected.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 26, 2017, 09:18:03 PM
Just got back from my second viewing. I loved it this time. Still a couple minor issues, but overall I really like this movie. I think my reservations from the first viewing mostly stemmed from it just not being what I expected.

This was my experience exactly as well. I've said it a couple times already in this thread but my initial let down from the movie was the fact that none of what I 'thought' would happen....happened. After getting over that and then seeing it again, I love(d) the movie. going to see it again Thursday in IMAX
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 27, 2017, 05:41:16 AM
My biggest issue with TLJ after last night's viewing is Holdo. She's just completely unnecessary. Her role should have been filled by Ackbar. Instead of him being unceremoniously killed off and replaced with a character we don't care about, he should have been the one to take over for Leia and sacrifice himself. There was no emotional response at all to Holdo sacrificing herself since our only knowledge of her was that she was kind of a bitch. Ackbar has been a fan favorite for decades and it would have had more emotional punch.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on December 27, 2017, 08:05:38 AM
I don’t mind Holdo. Her being a ”bitch” is more a fault with the writers ignoring logical communication just to keep the plot moving rather than there being a character flaw. If anything, Poe’s more at fault here, which was one of the more pleasant conceptual surprises of the movie even if the execution wasn’t all that great. I’m a big Star Wars fan, but who the heck cares about Ackbar? He’s funny meme, and while I guess him sacrificing himself would have technically worked, I don’t see why it matters.

In my opinion, of all the problems this movie has, Holdo isn’t one of them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 27, 2017, 08:12:16 AM
I agree that given that he's become more of a meme in recent years, it might have come across as silly to the audience if Ackbar sacrificed himself, and I'm not sure you could have fleshed him out enough in one movie to overcome that for that big moment.
I thought Holdo was a decent character, but she did come across as a bit unlikable for most of the movie (more because she was played as an antagonist to Poe, rather than her actually being a bitch I think), and we didn't find out until the end what she was up to. Finding out her plan was a nice enough part of Poe's arc, but it didn't help me care about her character when she sacrificed herself.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 27, 2017, 08:16:37 AM
If they had made it Ackbar, what would've been great (in the cheesiest of possible ways) would've been for someone on the Bridge of Snoke's ship shout out "It's a trap!" when they realize they're gonna get hyperspace-rammed.

:itsatrap:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 27, 2017, 08:23:47 AM
Her being a ”bitch” is more a fault with the writers ignoring logical communication just to keep the plot moving rather than there being a character flaw.
Agreed. It just bugged me that they introduce a character only to have us hate her, then have her make a self sacrifice which was supposed to be an emotional moment. Just didn't work for me.

If anything, Poe’s more at fault here
He definitely is, which I think was a good turn for this movie. The good guys make some major mistakes which cost them dearly.

I agree that given that he's become more of a meme in recent years, it might have come across as silly to the audience if Ackbar sacrificed himself, and I'm not sure you could have fleshed him out enough in one movie to overcome that for that big moment.
I guess I get that. It just seemed unnecessary to add a new character when there were existing characters that could have performed that role. Hell, even that giant nosed officer woman (no idea what her name is) would have worked. She was at least already in earlier scenes. One of my coworkers joked that the director must have owed Laura Dern a favor or something. Let's create an unnecessary character for her to play just so she can be in the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 27, 2017, 08:28:35 AM
If they had made it Ackbar, what would've been great (in the cheesiest of possible ways) would've been for someone on the Bridge of Snoke's ship shout out "It's a trap!" when they realize they're gonna get hyperspace-rammed.

:itsatrap:
That would have been better than a few of the other cheesy jokes that made it in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 27, 2017, 08:59:18 AM
If they had made it Ackbar, what would've been great (in the cheesiest of possible ways) would've been for someone on the Bridge of Snoke's ship shout out "It's a trap!" when they realize they're gonna get hyperspace-rammed.

:itsatrap:
That would have been better than a few of the other cheesy jokes that made it in.

And probably no more self-aware either.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: El Barto on December 28, 2017, 12:32:26 PM
A year out of date, but I watched Rogue One last night. I couldn't figure out why that Cassian fellow kept making me laugh. Then about halfway through I realized that he's Doctor Nick. Short swarthy guy with floppy hair, peach fuzz, and a goofy accent. Couldn't stop seeing it once I figured it out.

As for the movie, not particularly good from a cinema standpoint, but perfectly entertaining and enjoyable. There's something interesting to me about a movie where all of the main characters have to die by the end.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 28, 2017, 12:45:08 PM
There's something interesting satisfying to me about a movie where all of the main characters have to die by the end.

Fix'd.  Thins seem so contrived when all the bad guys die/lose at the end, and most/all the good guys come out no worse than they started.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 28, 2017, 12:56:40 PM
Haven't followed the thread so i'm not sure what the general opinion is but I enjoyed the movie. The humour felt a bit cheap at times and the story was a bit to much back and forth like someone doing something heroic and suddenly getting cut off, i'm not saying that's a bad thing but I guess i'm not used to that in Star Wars movies.


That shot of Holdo going lightspeed through the dreadnought was awesome.

Luke being a hologram was cool which I wasn't expecting honestly even though it makes sense.

Lightsaber through Snoke...awesome!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: El Barto on December 28, 2017, 01:02:19 PM
There's something interesting satisfying to me about a movie where all of the main characters have to die by the end.

Fix'd.  Thins seem so contrived when all the bad guys die/lose at the end, and most/all the good guys come out no worse than they started.
Well, R1 was plenty contrived enough anyway. But, some of the characters were perfectly likeable and not ones you'd particularly want to see dead. However, it was the fact that they had to die which made it strangely interesting to me. The core characters were all significant enough that had they survived we'd know about them now. Despite being likeable and showing some growth they're by necessity disposable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 28, 2017, 01:06:00 PM
But how is it "contrived?"  Just because the overall fate for many of the characters was a foregone conclusion doesn't necessarily make it "contrived."  I'm not sure I understand what you guys are saying.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 28, 2017, 01:08:43 PM
Me personally, I just could not stay interested in Rogue One. Going into a story like that already knowing the plot (they're going to steal the plans for the Death Star and they're disposable characters who are going to die) really killed any desire to stay interested in the characters. There was no emotional weight there for me, basically. No surprises except Vader at the end.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: El Barto on December 28, 2017, 01:50:31 PM
But how is it "contrived?"  Just because the overall fate for many of the characters was a foregone conclusion doesn't necessarily make it "contrived."  I'm not sure I understand what you guys are saying.
I don't think it was contrived because of the predetermined fate of the characters. I think the film itself was, though perhaps amazingly formulaic would be a better description.

Me personally, I just could not stay interested in Rogue One. Going into a story like that already knowing the plot (they're going to steal the plans for the Death Star and they're disposable characters who are going to die) really killed any desire to stay interested in the characters. There was no emotional weight there for me, basically. No surprises except Vader at the end.
Perhaps I'm just dense, but it didn't really dawn on me that everybody had to die until about halfway through the movie, by which point there were a couple of characters I'd grown fond of.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 28, 2017, 02:38:38 PM
Just saw TLJ again last night. 70% of the movie is just a miserable slog to get through. But the 30% that's interesting is truly amazing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 28, 2017, 04:22:53 PM
Even though it's been said so many times, I still have to mention that after all these years I still get goosebumps when hearing the main theme.  :metal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 28, 2017, 07:26:28 PM
Even though it's been said so many times, I still have to mention that after all these years I still get goosebumps when hearing the main theme.  :metal
Me too. That and the sound of a lightsaber.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: El Barto on December 28, 2017, 09:17:14 PM
Even though it's been said so many times, I still have to mention that after all these years I still get goosebumps when hearing the main theme.  :metal
Me too. That and the sound of a lightsaber.
TIE-fighters. They've got a weird wild animal sound to them. Love hearing them.

As for music the main theme never did much for me, but the various leitmotifs get me all the time. Even the aforementioned opening fanfare when used as a callback.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: contest_sanity on December 28, 2017, 10:43:17 PM
I thought of an interesting parallel with Episode III. Figured I would share so that I would finally start getting updates on this thread. I've seen some people getting upset that Luke even drew his lightsaber on Ben Solo, even if he immediately thought better of actually taking him down. While we might reasonably disagree on whether or not this was "in character" for Luke, I realized this was not the first time we have seen a young Jedi, heavily tempted by the Dark Side, only complete their full turn into evil with the aid of possible Jedi malpractice.

In the case of Ben Solo, Luke drawing his blade (and of course the consequent perception -- even if untrue -- that Luke was in fact trying to kill him). I could not help but think back on Episode III how Anakin wanted to arrest Palpatine and put him on trial, but Mace Windu had devolved into wishing to execute him, a seeming violation of the Jedi code. And therefore, whether it was intended by the writers or not, during the flashback sequences of Luke drawing his light saber over a sleeping Ben Solo, I could hear Mace saying, "He's too dangerous to be left alive..."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 28, 2017, 10:46:02 PM
I thought of an interesting parallel with Episode III. Figured I would share so that I would finally start getting updates on this thread. I've seen some people getting upset that Luke even drew his lightsaber on Ben Solo, even if he immediately thought better of actually taking him down. While we might reasonably disagree on whether or not this was "in character" for Luke, I realized this was not the first time we have seen a young Jedi, heavily tempted by the Dark Side, only complete their full turn into evil with the aid of possible Jedi malpractice.

In the case of Ben Solo, Luke drawing his blade (and of course the consequent perception -- even if untrue -- that Luke was in fact trying to kill him). I could not help but think back on Episode III how Anakin wanted to arrest Palpatine and put him on trial, but Mace Windu had devolved into wishing to execute him, a seeming violation of the Jedi code. And therefore, whether it was intended by the writers or not, during the flashback sequences of Luke drawing his light saber over a sleeping Ben Solo, I could hear Mace saying, "He's too dangerous to be left alive..."

Not sure comparing it to the prequels is helping the argument.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: contest_sanity on December 28, 2017, 11:07:22 PM
^ I wasn't really making an argument, just noting a parallel. Though upon reflection I personally thought it might have been a slight stretch that Luke would really have immediately drawn his light saber so quickly, who really knows? If all of a sudden he had deep suspicions as to Ben's temptation, and was also increasingly paranoid that he had missed it because of his own hubris, maybe to look upon Ben and so strikingly "see" the extent of his darkness: perhaps I can understand drawing the light saber as a reflex.

Hell, maybe I was just in a dark place myself, or perhaps Luke's characterization really was that convincing, but  when Kylo told "his version" of the story the first time, part of me thought that perhaps he was telling the truth. Like maybe Luke really did try and kill him...

Of course, the "truth is somewhere in the middle" version of the third time we saw it makes a lot more sense, and makes me feel a lot better, but for a moment there they had me wondering...

EDIT: but I'm also still liking Runaways, so what do I know, lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on December 29, 2017, 12:10:43 AM
For me, Luke drawing his lightsaber makes sense enough. It seems that he was not only ”suspicious of Ben’s temptations”, but from what we heard it seemed more like Luke could see and hear what he would come to do. Suddenly there is an incredibly powerful dark side enemy right in front of you who you’ve just witnessed through visions destroy your entire world. I can certainly understand taking the blade out, just in a brief moment of fear and insinct.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 29, 2017, 04:33:33 AM
I thought of an interesting parallel with Episode III. Figured I would share so that I would finally start getting updates on this thread. I've seen some people getting upset that Luke even drew his lightsaber on Ben Solo, even if he immediately thought better of actually taking him down. While we might reasonably disagree on whether or not this was "in character" for Luke, I realized this was not the first time we have seen a young Jedi, heavily tempted by the Dark Side, only complete their full turn into evil with the aid of possible Jedi malpractice.

In the case of Ben Solo, Luke drawing his blade (and of course the consequent perception -- even if untrue -- that Luke was in fact trying to kill him). I could not help but think back on Episode III how Anakin wanted to arrest Palpatine and put him on trial, but Mace Windu had devolved into wishing to execute him, a seeming violation of the Jedi code. And therefore, whether it was intended by the writers or not, during the flashback sequences of Luke drawing his light saber over a sleeping Ben Solo, I could hear Mace saying, "He's too dangerous to be left alive..."


That is an interesting parrellel.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 29, 2017, 05:02:34 AM
I thought of an interesting parallel with Episode III. Figured I would share so that I would finally start getting updates on this thread. I've seen some people getting upset that Luke even drew his lightsaber on Ben Solo, even if he immediately thought better of actually taking him down. While we might reasonably disagree on whether or not this was "in character" for Luke, I realized this was not the first time we have seen a young Jedi, heavily tempted by the Dark Side, only complete their full turn into evil with the aid of possible Jedi malpractice.

In the case of Ben Solo, Luke drawing his blade (and of course the consequent perception -- even if untrue -- that Luke was in fact trying to kill him). I could not help but think back on Episode III how Anakin wanted to arrest Palpatine and put him on trial, but Mace Windu had devolved into wishing to execute him, a seeming violation of the Jedi code. And therefore, whether it was intended by the writers or not, during the flashback sequences of Luke drawing his light saber over a sleeping Ben Solo, I could hear Mace saying, "He's too dangerous to be left alive..."


That is an interesting parrellel.

Maybe that's why Luke took it so personally & abandoned the Jedi ways altogether. Not just the "almost murdering his nephew" thing, but also the idea that he was becoming more like his father Darth Vader (spoilers lol) had probably loomed over his mind for some time, which could factor into why he became so overcome with guilt once he realised what he had done & what it could mean for him as a person.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 29, 2017, 06:32:03 AM
But how is it "contrived?"  Just because the overall fate for many of the characters was a foregone conclusion doesn't necessarily make it "contrived."  I'm not sure I understand what you guys are saying.

I just meant (most) movies in general... bad guys lose; good guys win with no/few casualties.

Me personally, I just could not stay interested in Rogue One. Going into a story like that already knowing the plot (they're going to steal the plans for the Death Star and they're disposable characters who are going to die) really killed any desire to stay interested in the characters. There was no emotional weight there for me, basically. No surprises except Vader at the end.

Don't bother watching Apollo 13 then.

Even though it's been said so many times, I still have to mention that after all these years I still get goosebumps when hearing the main theme.  :metal

Ditto... I just miss the 20th-Century Fox orchestral segue.   :sad:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on December 29, 2017, 07:08:41 AM
Yeah, knowing the character’s fates doesn’t lessen the amount I care. If it did then some real-life based movies would lose their value, or no movies would have any re-watchability.

I dislike Rogue One because I think the characters are just straight up bad, not because I knew they’d die.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 29, 2017, 07:28:15 AM
Me personally, I just could not stay interested in Rogue One. Going into a story like that already knowing the plot (they're going to steal the plans for the Death Star and they're disposable characters who are going to die) really killed any desire to stay interested in the characters. There was no emotional weight there for me, basically. No surprises except Vader at the end.

Don't bother watching Apollo 13 then.

Already ahead of you. That's partially why I've still not seen it (the other part being I never had interest in watching it anyway).  :lol

The thing about Rogue One though is that the whole story was something that I don't think necessitated a movie. But that's just my opinion. I honestly don't think any of the Star Wars films are actually great films. The lore, the universe of Star Wars, is amazing - but the films don't do it enough justice in my opinion. I try to reason with myself and understand that the EU came way after the original trilogy, but my first taste of SW was seeing Phantom Menace in theaters when I was 8. I didn't actually see the OT until my late teens.

Also I watched the despecialized version of Empire (again) last night. Apart from Harrison Ford's god awful acting and the lame humor it is easily the best Star Wars, the second half *never* gets boring to me. But I also don't understand why some have said TLJ is the Empire of this trilogy at all. Don't see many similarities.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: El Barto on December 29, 2017, 08:14:37 AM
Me personally, I just could not stay interested in Rogue One. Going into a story like that already knowing the plot (they're going to steal the plans for the Death Star and they're disposable characters who are going to die) really killed any desire to stay interested in the characters. There was no emotional weight there for me, basically. No surprises except Vader at the end.

Don't bother watching Apollo 13 then.

Already ahead of you. That's partially why I've still not seen it (the other part being I never had interest in watching it anyway).  :lol
There are plenty of reasons to watch movies aside from the suspense of the unknown. One of my favorite movies is The Longest Day, but there wasn't a whole lot of suspense there (Spoiler alert--the Allies won WWII). For one thing, I never get tired of witnessing true depictions of great heroism. A13 certainly has its fair share, mostly from the guys back on the ground. It also allowed us to see recreations of various aspects that technology couldn't show at the time, as well as the remarkable contributions of guys most would otherwise never have heard of (how many people know who Sy Leibergot is?).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 29, 2017, 08:21:20 AM
Right, there are lots of reasons to watch films. But Apollo 13 has never sounded interesting to me, so I don't plan to watch it, that's it.  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 29, 2017, 09:28:42 AM
Well, I really liked R1.  A lot.  I can't say I "loved" the characters.  But for the roles they had to fill, I liked them enough.  The one who seemed glaringly underdeveloped given his role was Saw.  But I still can't separate in my own mind whether I feel that way because the plot really needed him to be more developed and would have been better served by that, or it I am unduly swayed by the fact that having an actor like Forrest Whitaker playing the role alone gives the character so much gravitas that underdevelopment just feels almost criminally wasteful.  I guess I probably suspect it is mostly the former, but definitely influenced a bit by the latter as well.  But, again, I think the characters were mostly very good for what they had to do.

I really liked the juxtaposition of genres where you have the war/suicide assault subgenre coupled with basically a heist/treasure hunt genre.  It's already a fairly rare combination as it is, and is even more novel when set in a sci-fi universe.  And pretty unexpected for the Star Wars universe.  It is a bit jarring and disorienting at the beginning of the film on first viewing to have it jump all over the place.  But I feel that it isn't too hard to keep it in perspective, even if some of the specifics of "where are we, and why are we here again?" get lost the first time around.  I thought it was fun and effective.

There are some things at the end that seemed off and bother me a bit.  But that's just part of the package.  We can basically go through the entire Star Wars saga and pick apart each and every film if we want to.  And, honestly, every franchise that grows beyond a film or two seems to have continuity errors where something doesn't quite match up or rules that are established early on get broken later.  It's just the nature of the beast where you don't have one person or one team sit down in the beginning and write out the entire story (which is a virtual impossibility).  Even Marvel, as painstaking as they have been about building the MCU, has had this problem.  It just is what it is, and I've resigned myself to the fact that it's just meant to be fun and entertaining, and even beyond my own subjective expectations and "wants" as a fan, there are going to be continuity problems and other flaws.  Can't let those get in the way of enjoying something that is just meant to be a bit of frivolous fun.  That doesn't mean the films are above critical analysis.  And it doesn't mean that there aren't big, important themes or deep symbolism that can't be explored.  But the main purpose isn't to reveal some deep human truth.  It's just to give us a fun story.  And I think the franchise has largely succeeded, even if there have been some speed bumps along the way.  Rogue One and The Last Jedi are just two examples to me of that very thing: flawed movies that, notwithstanding their flaws, are really well-executed and fun as a whole.  In fact, I would say that since the move to Disney, all three films we have thus far are among the best in the franchise because, IMO, they have kept the fun factor and feel and nostalgia of the original franchise, while not OVERLY dumbing things down like the PT, not having as much bad acting and direction as the PT, and solving some of the plodding an pacing issues that the OT had.  In so many ways, again despite flaws that I recognize and acknowledge, they are just spot on and satisfying when I let go of expectations (some of which are unreasonable; some of which are not) and just enjoy.

But expectations coupled with the "new toy"/"new car smell" aspect of TLJ had me thinking some interesting thoughts this morning.  I liked TLJ.  I really, really liked it.  But there were some obvious issues as well, which we have discussed.  I'm just wondering how much those issues will overshadow the positive once this whole thing is wrapped up.  I think back to the PT.  When it was announced that Lucas was finally doing it, the excitement was off the charts.  Those of us who had grown up on Star Wars were starved for new content as it was, and the backstory of Anakin becoming Vader had become legend.  We were all dying to see how it would play out on screen.  And the Republic.  And all kinds of Jedi running around doing...jedi stuff!  When TPM came out, the reception was overall pretty positive.  People had no problem overlooking and glossing over the flaws, for the most part, because "Darth Maul!" and "epic lightsaber fight/space battle montage!" and "Galactic Republic!" and "jedi everywhere!" and such.  It had problems.  And people called out the problems and discussed them.  But overall, I feel like the general consensus was "yeah, it had major issues--and don't get me started on Jar-jar; bleh!!!--but it is Star Wars, and it was fun and good, despite any issues it might have had."  It wasn't really until after the PT had concluded that I really started to have issues with this film.  Then came AotC.  People, myself included, had MAJOR issues with this one.  A lot of it was the horrible acting and directing.  But some of it was purely story-driven as well.  The criticism was much more out there from the beginning.  But still, the reaction wasn't overly bad simply because we were all far too enamored with a TON of jedi drawing lightsabers in the arena battle and finally getting to see the start of the actual clone wars.  And Christopher Lee was in it.  Those things distracted us from totally slamming the film (and are still pretty redeeming to this day, actually).  And for those that played the Dark Forces games, the falling ship sequence was actually really cool too.  There was still an air of, "well, it is flawed, sure, but it's Star Wars, and it's still fun and cool, so I'm going to love it anyway."  So, where I'm going with this is:  I am a bit concerned that I find myself saying the similar things about the three Disney Star Wars films to date.  I am a bit concerned that my nostalgia and love of the franchise might be fueling an unspoken need deep within me to defend these movies and overlook their flaws, and that they will actually not stand the test of time and eventually be thought of in a similar light as the PT.  Part of me feels that it really COULD end up playing out like that.  I hope I'm wrong.  And, for what it's worth, I really think I will be wrong on that count.  These latest films DO feel qualitatively more solid than the PT.  They just do.  And going back to the word "contrived" that was used early, the fun in these films feels much less "contrived" to me than it did in the PT films.  I guess only time will tell whether these movies stand up, and how well.  But, again, they just feel more solid to me and feel like they will wind up holding up better over time.  Thoughts?

tl;dnr:  I have no sympathy for you.  Just grow an attention span and read it.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 29, 2017, 10:46:53 AM
You said it right when you mentioned that EVERY Star Wars film and show (Clone Wars and Rebels) are flawed. There are moments of brilliance, meh, and eye rolling scenes that make you want to stab your eyes out. That all being said I FREAKING LOVE STAR WARS! I love the characters, the lore, and the universe. I like all the shows and movies, some more than others obviously. I still think that TLJ is great and most people I know think the same. I don't get the outrage around the film. People complained about TFA being too similar to ANH and then TLJ comes out taking a ton of risks, just like Empire if you think about it, and people are pissed because they didn't get the answers they were expecting. I've come to the conclusion that there is a subset of Star Wars fans comprised mainly of people who grew up with the original trilogy who will not like any thing post ROTJ. I'll be the first to admit that nothing in Star Wars is perfect but I'll be shocked if something comes out that I end up hating. People are too damn critical now a days. Look at the response to The Hobbit films. Not perfect, but not the atrocity that the internet makes it out to be.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 29, 2017, 11:08:20 AM
I still think that TLJ is great and most people I know think the same. I don't get the outrage around the film. People complained about TFA being too similar to ANH and then TLJ comes out taking a ton of risks, just like Empire if you think about it, and people are pissed because they didn't get the answers they were expecting.

Yeah, I hear you.  I think you can largely lump most people who didn't like it into two categories (although there are plenty who fall into both categories, and plenty of others who had different issues):  (1) Those that are mad because they didn't get answers and/or didn't get answers they were expecting; and (2) Those that felt the underlying premise of the "slow chase" was just silly and that the other major plot point, the side question to Canto Bight, didn't work.  As to the former, yeah, that's just being overly critical.  If you didn't like not getting answers, fine.  But that isn't the film's fault--it's just that you don't happen to like the choice they made.  That's on you.  As to the second, I get it.  I'm okay with it.  But ultimately, both premises (or, probably more accurately, the way in which they were executed) are open to criticism.  Again, I'm ultimately okay with what they did, but both could have been done much, much better, IMO.  And I think a well-reasoned argument that the execution of ideas like that fell short is always valid, even if I might personally disagree with that assessment.

You said it right when you mentioned that EVERY Star Wars film and show (Clone Wars and Rebels) are flawed. There are moments of brilliance, meh, and eye rolling scenes that make you want to stab your eyes out. That all being said I FREAKING LOVE STAR WARS! I love the characters, the lore, and the universe. I like all the shows and movies, some more than others obviously.

Yeah, I would describe myself similarly.  But I had an interesting and, I guess, somewhat unconventional relationship with Star Wars.  As a 7-year-old, I wasn't reall aware of the lead-up to the release of the first one.  My uncle worked at a drive-in theater in town, and began hyping it, which got me excited.  We went and saw it, and I thought it was fun.  But the pacing was an issue, even back then.  It didn't manage to hold a 7-year-old's attention during the slower paced parts, even with their stunning visuals.  But I liked it.  But that following entire school year, it was hyped to the hilt by other kids, and by the release of toys and other merch, to the point where I came to love it through all of that rather than on the film's own merits.  I spend endless hours drawing space battles, playing with all the toys I got for Christmas that year and the following year, and building other scenes out of legos.  For whatever reason, while I still liked it, my excitement had died down a bit by the release of Empire, and I somehow managed to not see that one in the theater.  I wouldn't see it until sometime far later when it was out on video.  And I went through a similar cycle of initially growing to love it more through the extra stuff than through the film itself.  But by the time ROTJ came out, I had seen the two previous films many times and was firmly a fan on the merits themselves.  But looking back, it is an interesting and strange journey to have arrived there.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 29, 2017, 01:48:38 PM
 Just seems like Rey and Kylo had massive plot armor for that scene in Snoke's chamber. Dude can track people at light speed (new ability apparently never seen before...), and bridge people's minds across the galaxy (also new ability), but... couldn't sense his own apprentice moving the lightsaber right next to him? C'mon. That's my biggest problem with the films, they're fun, but these really pivotal moments (in every one of them) don't make much sense when you think about it, after all these are seriously powerful and clever people we're discussing. And I wish they did because the universe is so rich and fascinating and these moments/characters deserve better!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 29, 2017, 02:12:13 PM
I liked your original post before you edited it better.  ;)  And what I meant by "that isn't the film's fault" has to do with just not being satisfied by not getting answers to questions like "who is Snoke?" and "who are Rey's parents?"  Not giving answers wasn't an "oops, we missed that," which would imply fault.  It was an intentional creative decision to address those with different forms of "it doesn't matter."  So for fans who don't like the answers/non-answers they were given, it isn't an issue of "fault."  It isn't an issue of the movie having "objective" flaws.  It is an issue of the film doing something a viewer subjectively feels they disagree with.  And that's fine.  If someone doesn't like it or isn't satisfied with it, cool.  But that is an issue of taste, not an issue of bad film making that would somehow justify an online petition to have the film removed from canon.  :lol

Your beef is different, so my post wasn't really addressing you.  But I still think it falls more into the category of "this didn't work for me, and I think it could have been done better."  But to address couple of your points, for what it's worth:

Dude can track people at light speed (new ability apparently never seen before...)
Well, no.  That isn't his ability.  It isn't something he does with the force.  It's a technological development.  They (the First Order) developed the technology to track ships at light speed, and there were devices on the ships that could do that.

...and bridge people's minds across the galaxy (also new ability)

Yes. 

...but... couldn't sense his own apprentice moving the lightsaber right next to him? C'mon.

Well, okay...again, you're entitled to feel that that was too much of a stretch and it didn't work for you.  I get it.  There were definitely things in the film that had that feel for me as well.  But (1) see below; and (2) let me explain why, at least for me, this isn't one of those things that bothered me:  We still don't know exactly how the force, or a lot of specific force abilities work.  Kylo could get inside people's minds as well.  But we don't know what that looks like.  We don't know how specifically he can see things.  Same with Snoke, even though he is (was) more powerful and experienced.  But apparently, I think we are supposed to infer that there are degrees.  Either he can't see certain specifics, or, in his arrogance, he chose not to look too deeply and misinterpreted what he was seeing.  I think it's a bit of both.  He "saw" what Kylo was doing in terms of the steps Kylo was taking.  Kylo was going to raise his saber.  He was going to strike down one strong in the force.  He was going to ignite his saber.  But he wasn't seeing clearly.  Could he have?  I think we are meant to think that, probably, yes, he could have.  But in his hubris, he didn't.  He thought he had it figured out, so he didn't strive to see clearly, and that was also probably influenced by Kylo (and possibly Rey as well) obscuring his vision so that he would be tricked.  In other words, he mentally let his guard down because he arrogantly thought he had everything and everybody figured out, and it cost him.  I buy that.  It fits the theme of the film, and it feels plausible within the boundaries of what was revealed to us about how things work.  If you feel otherwise, that's cool.  Just sharing why it works for me.

As to the "see below" portion, I want to come back to this:
That's my biggest problem with the films, they're fun, but these really pivotal moments (in every one of them) don't make much sense when you think about it, after all these are seriously powerful and clever people we're discussing. And I wish they did because the universe is so rich and fascinating and these moments/characters deserve better!

Okay, but I think you are perhaps elevating the films too much, which my longer post above kind of addresses.  I think we have a tendency to revere some things too much, and in our culture, Star Wars is one of those things that we have put up on a pedestal and look at through rose colored glasses.  I just think it is easier to enjoy it for seeing it for what it is:  a series of fun stories that, yes, have many flaws and HAVE ALWAYS had many flaws, but are still fun nonetheless if we stop holding them to such high standards that even the originals don't really meet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 29, 2017, 02:40:34 PM
See, that's my thing. I said what I said because I'm afraid that they really do not have any idea what to do with Snoke and don't have a backstory for him, and even if they go into it in episode 9, I fear that will take away time from other important things they have to cover. It's apprehension. I do think that is the first film's fault because it set Snoke up as this fearsome baddie.

Your beef is different, so my post wasn't really addressing you.  But I still think it falls more into the category of "this didn't work for me, and I think it could have been done better."  But to address couple of your points, for what it's worth:

Kinda, yeah :)

Dude can track people at light speed (new ability apparently never seen before...)
Well, no.  That isn't his ability.  It isn't something he does with the force.  It's a technological development.  They (the First Order) developed the technology to track ships at light speed, and there were devices on the ships that could do that.

Honest question, was it described in film as technology? If so I missed it. I just remember them saying something along the lines of, "He tracked us!" and I attributed it to Snoke since he is so powerful, and was bridging Rey's and Kylo's minds (although I'm not sure if that was revealed before or after the light speed tracking - after, right?).

...but... couldn't sense his own apprentice moving the lightsaber right next to him? C'mon.

Well, okay...again, you're entitled to feel that that was too much of a stretch and it didn't work for you.  I get it.  There were definitely things in the film that had that feel for me as well.  But (1) see below; and (2) let me explain why, at least for me, this isn't one of those things that bothered me:  We still don't know exactly how the force, or a lot of specific force abilities work.  Kylo could get inside people's minds as well.  But we don't know what that looks like.  We don't know how specifically he can see things.  Same with Snoke, even though he is (was) more powerful and experienced.  But apparently, I think we are supposed to infer that there are degrees.  Either he can't see certain specifics, or, in his arrogance, he chose not to look too deeply and misinterpreted what he was seeing.  I think it's a bit of both.  He "saw" what Kylo was doing in terms of the steps Kylo was taking.  Kylo was going to raise his saber.  He was going to strike down one strong in the force.  He was going to ignite his saber.  But he wasn't seeing clearly.  Could he have?  I think we are meant to think that, probably, yes, he could have.  But in his hubris, he didn't.  He thought he had it figured out, so he didn't strive to see clearly, and that was also probably influenced by Kylo (and possibly Rey as well) obscuring his vision so that he would be tricked.  In other words, he mentally let his guard down because he arrogantly thought he had everything and everybody figured out, and it cost him.  I buy that.  It fits the theme of the film, and it feels plausible within the boundaries of what was revealed to us about how things work.  If you feel otherwise, that's cool.  Just sharing why it works for me.

I do see why that makes sense to some people, but to me... it just doesn't feel natural. It feels contrived, and unbelievable. Snoke shows he can do incredible things, and regardless of the piece of work being discussed, I absolutely cannot stand cheap deaths like that. It is a crap way to get rid of a powerful character. Game of Thrones gets rid of powerful characters and it feels satisfying, there is an emotional reaction. Star Wars... it's like amateur hour in comparison. I don't feel the weight of Snoke being cut down by Kylo because I don't know anything about Snoke, he's just another big evil dude with a title to me.

As to the "see below" portion, I want to come back to this:
That's my biggest problem with the films, they're fun, but these really pivotal moments (in every one of them) don't make much sense when you think about it, after all these are seriously powerful and clever people we're discussing. And I wish they did because the universe is so rich and fascinating and these moments/characters deserve better!

Okay, but I think you are perhaps elevating the films too much, which my longer post above kind of addresses.  I think we have a tendency to revere some things too much, and in our culture, Star Wars is one of those things that we have put up on a pedestal and look at through rose colored glasses.  I just think it is easier to enjoy it for seeing it for what it is:  a series of fun stories that, yes, have many flaws and HAVE ALWAYS had many flaws, but are still fun nonetheless if we stop holding them to such high standards that even the originals don't really meet.

My perception of Star Wars is different from yours, I believe. I was 8 when TPM came out. At that time, I was going to the hospital a lot, and there was this room with all sorts of Star Wars toys in it. Hundreds of action figures, posters, cereal boxes, a gigantic R2D2 and C3PO, in this tiny little hospital room. All original trilogy. I grew up reading and listening to people talk about how amazing the characters are, how deep the messages are, how important Star Wars is. So, my whole life, I have always had people putting Star Wars on this pedestal of how rich and fantastic the series is. If I turn off my brain and watch them as fun movies, yeah, that's great. But we have what, 10 films and a whole extended universe to look at. When these filmmakers are bringing this universe to life, I feel like they do a fantastic job on one hand, but on the other, I don't believe any of them do it enough justice to justify all the rabid praise the franchise gets. And I keep expecting someone to come out and really blow my mind. That's why I would love to see this series given a Game of Thrones TV-series treatment and really give these characters the development they deserve instead of making 2.5 hour films where they have to cram in as much as possible. The universe is too rich to be limited to such a small amount of time for even part of a big story.

Like, I dunno. When I finally watched the OT as a teenager I was almost offended by how horrible they were (to me, and at the time). Today I still cringe at the humor and Ford's acting. It just doesn't match this 'legendary' praise the fans give them. Fun movies, yes, but always failing to live up to the universe's potential. But, just so I'm clear, I totally understand your views and what you're saying - I'm just expressing my... disappointment, I suppose, with this amazing franchise. I honestly, truly believe there is untapped potential and I want to see them run with it someday.

Sorry that was so long. I'll stop derailing if this is taking away from the thread.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 29, 2017, 03:20:57 PM
Not a derailment at all.

Dude can track people at light speed (new ability apparently never seen before...)
Well, no.  That isn't his ability.  It isn't something he does with the force.  It's a technological development.  They (the First Order) developed the technology to track ships at light speed, and there were devices on the ships that could do that.

Honest question, was it described in film as technology? If so I missed it. I just remember them saying something along the lines of, "He tracked us!" and I attributed it to Snoke since he is so powerful, and was bridging Rey's and Kylo's minds (although I'm not sure if that was revealed before or after the light speed tracking - after, right?).

Yeah, Rose described it as tech.  And that was literally the whole point of their excursion to Canto Bight and then their infiltration of Snoke's ship.  They were trying to find the dude who could sneak them onto the ship so they could disable the tech, not to confront Snoke.  And they also explained that they only then had a short window for the fleet to escape after doing so, because once they detected that they were no longer tracking the fleet because it had been disabled, the other ships in Snoke's contingent could turn on their trackers that they were also likely equipped with.  They were pretty obvious that it was a technology, not a force ability.  And I'm not knocking you for missing it--I missed some obvious things in my first viewing as well--we all do.  I'm only saying it was "obvious" to point out that I'm not guessing on the issue and that it was actually spelled out.   

And on this note:
As to the "see below" portion, I want to come back to this:
That's my biggest problem with the films, they're fun, but these really pivotal moments (in every one of them) don't make much sense when you think about it, after all these are seriously powerful and clever people we're discussing. And I wish they did because the universe is so rich and fascinating and these moments/characters deserve better!

Okay, but I think you are perhaps elevating the films too much, which my longer post above kind of addresses.  I think we have a tendency to revere some things too much, and in our culture, Star Wars is one of those things that we have put up on a pedestal and look at through rose colored glasses.  I just think it is easier to enjoy it for seeing it for what it is:  a series of fun stories that, yes, have many flaws and HAVE ALWAYS had many flaws, but are still fun nonetheless if we stop holding them to such high standards that even the originals don't really meet.

My perception of Star Wars is different from yours, I believe. I was 8 when TPM came out. ...  So, my whole life, I have always had people putting Star Wars on this pedestal of how rich and fantastic the series is. ...  Like, I dunno. When I finally watched the OT as a teenager I was almost offended by how horrible they were (to me, and at the time).

But see, you pretty much acknowledge that the fact that they are put on a pedestal is somewhat unjustified, right?  The bolded part especially, where you indicate that when you objectively watched the OT, you weren't impressed--quite the opposite.  Doesn't that suggest that, really, when people idolize the films, they've kind of just left their objectivity behind and made the SW universe into something it isn't?  Many in my generation do it simply because of the nostalgia factor.  But many in your generation do it because you've been told to by those who are influenced by the nostalgia factor.  :lol  :dunno:  I like where you say, "I don't believe any of them do it enough justice to justify all the rabid praise the franchise gets. And I keep expecting someone to come out and really blow my mind."  I think that nails it.  The rabid praise isn't justified.  But the thing is, that's okay.  It doesn't have to be black and white of either "this is AMAZING on every level!" or if it falls short of that, "this is an abject failure."  It can be somewhere in the middle, can't it? 

But it's all good.  At the end of the day, I'm just offering my own thoughts, and you're just offering yours.  For me, I can just suspend expectations and enjoy it as some frivolous and flawed fun, and doing so helps me not get bent out of shape when things don't play out on screen the way I want them to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 29, 2017, 05:27:05 PM
Yeah, Rose described it as tech.  And that was literally the whole point of their excursion to Canto Bight and then their infiltration of Snoke's ship.  They were trying to find the dude who could sneak them onto the ship so they could disable the tech, not to confront Snoke.  And they also explained that they only then had a short window for the fleet to escape after doing so, because once they detected that they were no longer tracking the fleet because it had been disabled, the other ships in Snoke's contingent could turn on their trackers that they were also likely equipped with.  They were pretty obvious that it was a technology, not a force ability.  And I'm not knocking you for missing it--I missed some obvious things in my first viewing as well--we all do.  I'm only saying it was "obvious" to point out that I'm not guessing on the issue and that it was actually spelled out.

Thanks for explaining that - I didn't pick up on that the first time, or I forgot after viewing, whichever. That makes more sense.

But see, you pretty much acknowledge that the fact that they are put on a pedestal is somewhat unjustified, right?  The bolded part especially, where you indicate that when you objectively watched the OT, you weren't impressed--quite the opposite.  Doesn't that suggest that, really, when people idolize the films, they've kind of just left their objectivity behind and made the SW universe into something it isn't?  Many in my generation do it simply because of the nostalgia factor.  But many in your generation do it because you've been told to by those who are influenced by the nostalgia factor.  :lol  :dunno:  I like where you say, "I don't believe any of them do it enough justice to justify all the rabid praise the franchise gets. And I keep expecting someone to come out and really blow my mind."  I think that nails it.  The rabid praise isn't justified.  But the thing is, that's okay.  It doesn't have to be black and white of either "this is AMAZING on every level!" or if it falls short of that, "this is an abject failure."  It can be somewhere in the middle, can't it?

That's a great point, and you're totally right. It's probably just easier for me to gripe about the faults I find in them because they've been put on a pedestal unjustly my whole life. But it's probably a generational thing, since like you said, nostalgia, and I don't have that, and you're right, those older than myself have always raved about it, so what was I to expect? ;) Having said all that though there are so many great things about the films that I feel I've been a bit unfair to them. I should try to view the OT in the context of 1970s filmmaking.

Now tell me why Obi-Wan's force ghost didn't also show up in TLJ.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on December 30, 2017, 02:44:30 AM
I do think that is the first film's fault because it set Snoke up as this fearsome baddie.

Yeah, this is sort of where I come down on this. I like TFA a lot, but TLJ sort of undermines the things that the first one tried to set up. On it's own, Snoke just dying isn't that bad, but just the fact that he exists in TFA and has the power he has implied that he was important. I don't have a problem with him dying, I have a problem with it feeling so unceremoneous and ultimately insignificant. Now in retrospect it just feels like our time has been wasted any time Snoke was on screen. He could have died there in that room, but if we knew more about him before that, and if they had built to that moment more, it would have felt more satisfying. But now it just feels like they went "HAHA SUBVERSION, BET YA DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING". To keep the Game of Thrones examples going, the Red Wedding was a huge surprise, but looking back, it had all been building towards it for a long time.

Damn I have so much to say about this movie that I don't say becuase it will be too much. But despite what it might sound like, I do enjoy it. There is some awesome stuff in there too. But fuck Canto Bight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on December 30, 2017, 05:43:06 PM
Just got back from the film. Too lazy to read through 8 pages. I liked it a lot. I don't recall feeling this positive a few hours after seeing TFA, and honestly can't remember much from that film at this point beyond the awesomeness of seeing Harrison Ford back in the Han Solo outfit. It feels like a distant memory and a JJ Abrams "yay I get to make a SW movie finally!" TLJ felt too long, but I was never bored. Don't know how this one will endure in my mind, but it's mostly positive now.

Should have added... my my are those some dull, uninspired antagonists. Would have been nice to see Capt Sneers-a-lot do something other than scream "FIRE AT WILL!!!!!!" at a subordinate who probably realizes his job is to fire at will.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on January 01, 2018, 09:22:46 AM
Watched it last night for the second time. Good to watch in a near empty theater while everyone outside is celebrating new years.

After a second viewing, I loved this movie even more. There are things that I wished were done differently/better but all in all still an excellent watch which makes me want to go and watch it again.

Although the light speed jump by the cruiser is an amazing intense scene, I just wished they showed the Rose-Finn fallout a little more convincingly. I mean they're almost about to be executed and are surrounded by whole battalions of storm troopers and Captain Phasma, next thing you know no one but the two of them are there. That and the Rose saving Finn scene really could've been done or executed better personally.

Though when I think about it now, to me the whole side adventure of those two was probably written for them to specifically do something with the plot while we see the Rey-Luke story play out. The arc with Rey, Kylo, Luke and the island felt like it flowed a lot better and felt a lot less forced than Rose-Finn. I was ok on first viewing with Rose and Finn pairing up but I think now I don't see their chemistry work that well. I much prefer the pairing of Rey and Finn in the first movie.

I might check it out one more time hopefully in an Imax non 3D screen if I can find one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on January 02, 2018, 06:46:35 AM
I also had my second viewing this weekend. A couple of theories changed.

1. I think Snoke knew Kylo was going to kill him. The whole Sith mantra is built around the apprentice destroying the master at some point. And while Snoke seemed powerful he looked like he was close to kicking the bucket.
2. I think Kylo was telling the truth about Rey's parent, BUT I think he was wrong. He said he saw them and I think Snoke put that vision in his head to help get Rey on his ship.

I actually enjoyed the Canto Blight section more. It was just fun, maybe out of place in the film but still enjoyable. Felt like an episode from Clone Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on January 02, 2018, 08:34:18 AM
Yeah, knowing the character’s fates doesn’t lessen the amount I care. If it did then some real-life based movies would lose their value, or no movies would have any re-watchability.

I dislike Rogue One because I think the characters are just straight up bad, not because I knew they’d die.

This, exactly for me.  THe characters I found little interest in, I don't think the movie did much to make me care for them, so when they all died as expected (knowing this didn't ruin the movie, but it didn't help), I just shrugged and felt "Finally it happened" and didn't have any emotional attachment.  So that's the main reason why I felt the movie wasn't good.  Otherwise, from an action standpoint, it was fine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 02, 2018, 10:24:50 AM
1. I think Snoke knew Kylo was going to kill him. The whole Sith mantra is built around the apprentice destroying the master at some point. And while Snoke seemed powerful he looked like he was close to kicking the bucket.

I left my second viewing thinking the same thing. Especially since I paid close attention to Snoke's dialogue in that scene and at first watch it appears he's narrating to describe Ren killing Rey....but IMO he's knowingly narrating his own death...particularly him saying "I know his every thought"...."I cannot be betrayed"...."he now turns the saber to strike down his TRUE enemy"..... I think it's along the lines of Obi Wan telling Vadar if you strike me down I become more powerful than you can imagine.....only from the 'dark side' aspect this time.

Snoke's body looks like it's been pieced together before anyway....even still in a bit of decay....so...I wouldn't be surprised to see that character again although I doubt they'd do that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2018, 10:34:52 AM
That's an interesting theory but the look of shock on Snoke's face makes it hard for me to believe that he knew Kylo was going to do that. Snoke's expression to me read like 'oh I done fucked up' more than 'good, good, let the hate fill you' - but I admit I could be wrong  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 02, 2018, 10:48:38 AM
That's an interesting theory but the look of shock on Snoke's face makes it hard for me to believe that he knew Kylo was going to do that. Snoke's expression to me read like 'oh I done fucked up' more than 'good, good, let the hate fill you' - but I admit I could be wrong  :)

I'm sure that it's a LONg shot theory....it was just interesting the second watch how Snoke's dialogue spoke more to Ren's relationship to Snoke than Rey, especially the 'true' enemy line. It'd be a way for them to rebound from the rather abrupt ending to a character we all assumed would have this detailed backstory though, if he were to show up again. But I think the safe bet is he's dead and we won't see him again. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 02, 2018, 12:54:37 PM
I don't think Snoke is necessary at all at this point. I hope he stays dead.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 02, 2018, 01:02:21 PM
I don't think Snoke is necessary at all at this point. I hope he stays dead.

I don't see how they could bring him back without having to spend a considerable amount of time explaining it all.

I imagine in order to deal with Carrie Fishers death....there will be a considerable time jump (3..4..5? yrs) to where Ren is even more powerful and feared.....and Rey is equally powerful as a now Jedi. They wouldn't 'need' Snoke any longer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 03, 2018, 01:37:59 AM
My main reason for not completely dismissing that Snoke is still in play is that at the end of the movie Rey and Kylo are connected again. Admitedly, it’s never specified if Snoke actively connected them on each occasion or if he just established the connection and then stepped back. But that’s why I’m having some difficulties just accepting his death.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on January 03, 2018, 07:05:10 AM
Personally I would love if they do something with Snoke in the final film. Maybe make him a clone of the Emperor. I've read a cool fan theory that Rey was a clone of Luke's taken from his had found on Bespin. Maybe another Snoke shows up and Kylo not only has to contend with a threat from Rey but a threat from another dark sider. Maybe there is another force out there orchestrating/profiting from the conflict in the galaxy. There are so many different directions JJ could take the next movie I'm already ridiculously excited. Only 717 more days!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 03, 2018, 07:08:35 AM
That sounds like some EU-level crap right there. :lol No thanks.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 03, 2018, 07:22:15 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/02/6c/46/026c460f2021f1c71f550acb5b6544d8.jpg)

 :lol

I wouldn't be keen to see any more of Snoke. Leave him be and work on developing the existing characters further.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on January 03, 2018, 09:19:44 AM
I think not explaining Snoke was kind of a direct little middle finger to all the theorists out there and everyone still thinking there's some secret Snoke plot is giving the writers a bit too much credit. He's done and forgotten. Maybe he'll be in a flashback, but I'll be amazed if they do anything meaningful with him in the next movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 03, 2018, 09:36:09 AM
I hadn't really thought about him orchestrating his own death or anything like that, but it's not a bad theory.  While I'm still leaning toward him being gone, I don't think a theory like that is too farfetched, and I wouldn't be that surprised if it played out that way if done well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 03, 2018, 09:53:49 AM
I hadn't really thought about him orchestrating his own death or anything like that, but it's not a bad theory.  While I'm still leaning toward him being gone, I don't think a theory like that is too farfetched, and I wouldn't be that surprised if it played out that way if done well.

After my second viewing I had myself convinced he did just that. Even the way Snoke berates Ren about his mask and how much he's failed seems like he's just pushing him to do it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 03, 2018, 10:07:51 AM
I hadn't really thought about him orchestrating his own death or anything like that, but it's not a bad theory.  While I'm still leaning toward him being gone, I don't think a theory like that is too farfetched, and I wouldn't be that surprised if it played out that way if done well.

After my second viewing I had myself convinced he did just that. Even the way Snoke berates Ren about his mask and how much he's failed seems like he's just pushing him to do it.

Yeah, that all makes sense.  And if that is the case, I could see it from a couple of different perspectives.  He sees both Kylo and Rey as being VERY powerful, and perhaps sees the "threat" of a more general awakening where other powerful force users are out there as well.  Along these lines, his "and the light rises to meet it" comment may be more generally prophetic.  It may be that he needed to "die" and be reborn in order to, essentially "level up" himself.  It may also be that he needed to push Kylo to take some drastic act, like "killing" his master, for Kylo to take the next step.  Or he may simply have seen that Kylo was too divided in himself to be useful, and so he forced the issue (no pun intended).  I'm not discounting at all that something like that could play out in the next installment.  And it could set Snoke up as the perpetual baddie indefinitely, if they chose to go that route.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 03, 2018, 01:04:22 PM
I think the biggest hint that Snoke may not be dead after all, is the fact that the force link still exists between Rey and Ren in the end. Wouldn't it disappear, if he's dead. Maybe he is using the force link as a backup plan, to somehow sustain himself in the link between Rey and Ren after his death?

Anyway that is just me spitballing. I'm perfectly fine if he doesn't return. He served his purpose..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 03, 2018, 01:32:32 PM
I think the biggest hint that Snoke may not be dead after all, is the fact that the force link still exists between Rey and Ren in the end. Wouldn't it disappear, if he's dead. Maybe he is using the force link as a backup plan, to somehow sustain himself in the link between Rey and Ren after his death?

Anyway that is just me spitballing. I'm perfectly fine if he doesn't return. He served his purpose..

I can't get past his extremely disfigured and what still looks to be actively decaying body as well? As if, he's long been technically dead and he's really just a Force Ghost going all 'Weekend at Bernies' with that body already anyway?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 03, 2018, 03:54:34 PM
 Just an idea I had half the top of my head that has absolutely no basis in anything at all....

 What if Snoke WAS the dark side? The living embodiment of the dark side of the force that finds a new host every time on the old host dies. That is why the cycle must continue.  The apprentice inherits the fullness of the dark side upon killing his master. Everyone else up til now has just been an imitation...the sith just a training ground...and we’re only just now being introduced to the source.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 03, 2018, 06:11:15 PM
I want Episode IX to start out with Rey waking up, still on ahch to, and she hears the shower running. When she opens up the door, Luke is standing there alive and is like "ready to go take on Snoke and Kylo together?"  Dallas style baby  :biggrin:
 

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-14-2016/-F0F_p.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 04, 2018, 01:41:52 AM
So I just saw the movie for the first time tonight, and it was Awesome!!! My favorite since Return of the Jedi, a few little quirks but that's ok. I'll post a more detailed review later, but as for now,, REST, rest I need!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 04, 2018, 03:57:30 AM
I thought it was 70% garbage and 30% the greatest star wars movie ever made. So it pretty much evened out to "pretty good" for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 04, 2018, 02:41:21 PM
My only minor complaints,  MILK,, Casino,, and the ending with Luke but wasn't terrible. At least he went on in a blaze of glory unlike Han Solo. The Han Solo we know wouldn't have fallen for that trick like he did in The Force Awakens.
 The Last Jedi was a great experience in the theater, lots of action and cool space scenes. I just don't know how the people on those big ships survive after coming to a sudden stop out of hyper-space, lol!
The lack of physics are ok because movies like this are supposed to be fun.
There are alot of Empre Strikes back similarities. The resistance taking refuge on a strange planet in a mountain with imperial walkers showing up. Ren trying get Rey to join forces with him to rule the galaxy like Vader did With Luke. Rey getting training in a remote area, kind of like Luke did with Yoda. The resistance fleeing from The first order in a big spaceship Chase with no Death Star like battle station in the picture.
I also wonder if Benicio's character is almost like another version of Lando, he didn't have a choice because he was caught in a catch 22 but redeems himself later?
I liked the length of the movie, I didn't want it to end and it didn't disappoint. The artwork in this movie is fantastic, so much going on I need to see it again..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 04, 2018, 04:00:01 PM
The Han Solo we know wouldn't have fallen for that trick like he did in The Force Awakens.

He didn't fall for anything. He knew his son was going to kill him. Watch every interaction between he an Leah when they talk about their son and Leah is insisting that 'he's still good' and for Han to 'bring him home'. His face says it all. He knows it's a done deal that Kylo is going to kill him. He even pauses a moment prior to calling Ben's name out and walking out onto that walkway. The ONLY reason he did so was because of his love for Leah....not because he loved his son.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 04, 2018, 04:32:31 PM
I think not explaining Snoke was kind of a direct little middle finger to all the theorists out there and everyone still thinking there's some secret Snoke plot is giving the writers a bit too much credit. He's done and forgotten. Maybe he'll be in a flashback, but I'll be amazed if they do anything meaningful with him in the next movie.

I've listened to a couple of interviews with Rian Johnson where he discusses spoilers in the film. It's clear that, even if you vehemently disagree with what he did, he didn't make any choices with malicious intent. He carefully thought everything through and did what he genuinely felt was best for the franchise.

(Not saying that you thought those things or anything. It was more of a general comment that I thought might be of interest. Look up Slash Film Rian Johnson on YouTube if interested.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 05, 2018, 06:05:55 AM
The ONLY reason he did so was because of his love for Leah....not because he loved his son.
See I interpreted it as love for Ben which made him have to give it one last shot to try and save him. I agree he knew he would likely be killed, but being a father he had to try and save his son. His love for Leia certainly helped push him to do what he did.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 05, 2018, 06:10:28 AM
The ONLY reason he did so was because of his love for Leah....not because he loved his son.
See I interpreted it as love for Ben which made him have to give it one last shot to try and save him. I agree he knew he would likely be killed, but being a father he had to try and save his son. His love for Leia certainly helped push him to do what he did.

Bingo.  Leah convinced him there was a small chance, so Han had to try.  Any (good) father would do this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 05, 2018, 06:27:54 AM
The ONLY reason he did so was because of his love for Leah....not because he loved his son.
See I interpreted it as love for Ben which made him have to give it one last shot to try and save him. I agree he knew he would likely be killed, but being a father he had to try and save his son. His love for Leia certainly helped push him to do what he did.

Bingo.  Leah convinced him there was a small chance, so Han had to try.  Any (good) father would do this.

It most likely was a mixture of both, but he knew he was gonna he killed by him. Hans expressions in each of the three instances he and Leah spoke about it said it all. Which is why I don’t think he was tricked or fell for anything.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 05, 2018, 06:48:36 AM
Can we just establish once and for all that her name is ’Leia’?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 05, 2018, 07:12:50 AM
1.  He wasn't "tricked"
2.  It's "Leia"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 05, 2018, 08:12:19 AM
So, for Snoke to connect rey's mind to Kylo's, would he need to know where she is or at least sense her presence in some location? Which in that case he knows where she and luke are at, so they could just go there?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 05, 2018, 08:20:38 AM
On a semi-related note: During my second viewing of the film, I noticed that Kylo says, "You're not doing this. The effort alone would kill you" the first time he and Rey connect. Later in the film, the effort does indeed kill Luke when he projects himself. I feel like TLJ has a lot of little nuggets like that, which is cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 05, 2018, 08:24:52 AM
So, for Snoke to connect rey's mind to Kylo's, would he need to know where she is or at least sense her presence in some location? Which in that case he knows where she and luke are at, so they could just go there?
I doubt it.  But I think you're probably overthinking it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 05, 2018, 08:40:47 AM
On a semi-related note: During my second viewing of the film, I noticed that Kylo says, "You're not doing this. The effort alone would kill you" the first time he and Rey connect. Later in the film, the effort does indeed kill Luke when he projects himself. I feel like TLJ has a lot of little nuggets like that, which is cool.

Yeah that was clearly set up for the finale.

Additionally, during one of the scenes with Snoke, don’t remember which one, the score most definetely plays the emperor’s theme.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 05, 2018, 01:12:04 PM
The ONLY reason he did so was because of his love for Leah....not because he loved his son.
See I interpreted it as love for Ben which made him have to give it one last shot to try and save him. I agree he knew he would likely be killed, but being a father he had to try and save his son. His love for Leia certainly helped push him to do what he did.

Bingo.  Leah convinced him there was a small chance, so Han had to try.  Any (good) father would do this.
I still think it was a lame way for Solo to go out. He may have been trying to be a good father, but c'mon man, he sacrifices his life just to see if maybe Ren would turn back to Ben. Instead he gets killed by an ungrateful punk who is bent on ruling the galaxy. They just found a lame way to kill off Solo so Harrison Ford could go work on his stupid Blade Runner movie. I would have MUCH rather have him in these three installments of Star Wars. He chose POORLY!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on January 05, 2018, 03:11:26 PM
On a semi-related note: During my second viewing of the film, I noticed that Kylo says, "You're not doing this. The effort alone would kill you" the first time he and Rey connect. Later in the film, the effort does indeed kill Luke when he projects himself. I feel like TLJ has a lot of little nuggets like that, which is cool.

Yeah that was clearly set up for the finale.

Man I didn't catch that. That's really cool. I wish they would've brought more attention to that. Awesome setup.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 06, 2018, 02:48:20 AM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

Think this is probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 06, 2018, 06:43:12 AM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

I agree! Saw it this morning, after having watched the original trilogy in the past week. It was a very fun ride and an enjoyable watch. Definitely, some things seem (very) far-fetched, but nothing that stood between me and the enjoyment of the whole. Favourite moment of the film (apart from the gorgeous aftershots of the light-speed ramming); the Millenium Falcon coming in to shoot down the TIEs on the salt-planet. I saw it coming, it was ridiculously predictable, but it worked out wonderfully.

(By the way, how did Rey get on the Falcon anyway? If we're going to nitpick things..)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 06, 2018, 08:49:23 AM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

I agree! Saw it this morning, after having watched the original trilogy in the past week. It was a very fun ride and an enjoyable watch. Definitely, some things seem (very) far-fetched, but nothing that stood between me and the enjoyment of the whole. Favourite moment of the film (apart from the gorgeous aftershots of the light-speed ramming); the Millenium Falcon coming in to shoot down the TIEs on the salt-planet. I saw it coming, it was ridiculously predictable, but it worked out wonderfully.

(By the way, how did Rey get on the Falcon anyway? If we're going to nitpick things..)
Saw it for the third time today, with my dad! I think i'll wait for the Blu-Ray now. ;D

There was this whole episode before the movie started. They started playing the 4K version of the movie on a 2K screen. It took about ten minutes for the staff to figure out what was happening, and they had to start the movie again...

Some poor intern lost his job today. :lol

I still like it very much, and it held up even with my third viewing! My dad also enjoyed it, but we agreed that the biggest problem with it was the running time. They could have trimmed some things a bit. As it is, it is quite long, and i think that it is hurting the repeat viewings with the movie.

But again, it is a great SW movie!

(By the way, how did Rey get on the Falcon anyway? If we're going to nitpick things..)

During the chaos when the cruiser hit Snoke's flagship at warp speed, she stole Snoke's escape craft and rendezvoused with Chewie and the Falcon. Seemed pretty clear to me..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on January 06, 2018, 09:10:41 AM
(By the way, how did Rey get on the Falcon anyway? If we're going to nitpick things..)

During the chaos when the cruiser hit Snoke's flagship at warp speed, she stole Snoke's escape craft and rendezvoused with Chewie and the Falcon. Seemed pretty clear to me..

Right, it's subtle but I had missed that and several other things on the first watch. Chewie basically comes back to the same spot and she back gets on board the ship via the escape pod from Snoke's throne room.

I definitely want to watch it one more time in the theater before it leaves. I definitely love it more each time I watch it and keep discovering other things.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 06, 2018, 02:52:27 PM
^
But does it show her getting back on the Falcon in the film? I can’t remember seeing that.

Truth be told, I am nitpicking here. There’s a whole lot of more stuff that I could go on about that was far-fetched or downright unbelievable. It was a good film to watch and I enjoyed it a lot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on January 06, 2018, 02:58:03 PM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

Think this is probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

I disagree with this as a blanket statement. Some of the complaints? For sure! But I can't think of any of the original films where an entire elongated subplot amounted to virtually nothing and could have been completely cut out without much consequence.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 06, 2018, 03:13:33 PM
^
But does it show her getting back on the Falcon in the film? I can’t remember seeing that.

No, she tells Chewie to drop her off and go to the ”rendezvous point” I think, which is all we get as explanation for how they later meet up. Which is enough for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 07, 2018, 02:15:58 AM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

Think this is probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

I disagree with this as a blanket statement. Some of the complaints? For sure! But I can't think of any of the original films where an entire elongated subplot amounted to virtually nothing and could have been completely cut out without much consequence.

Without much consequence? The way the casino/codebreaker plot line played out had huge consequences on pretty much everything in the last hour of the film. If it hadn't gone down that way, the First Order wouldn't have found out about the hidden shuttles escaping to that planet, they'd have simply destroyed the main ship unaware that it only had one person on it, and then pissed off with dreadnought fully in tact. Meanwhile the resistance would have all made it down to the planet and set up in the rebel base. No epic battle. Luke wouldn't have needed to project himself across the galaxy, so would still be alive. Rey's journey would have played out differently.

If by "amounted to nothing" you essentially mean it was unsuccessful for the protagonists, then yes there's plenty of that in the original trilogy. Han and Leia's entire plot line in Empire Strikes Back, for example.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 07, 2018, 03:04:08 AM
Yeah but it’s a bit sad that it’s only direct consequence was for the coder to tell the First Order that there were smaller shuttles breaking off. Absolutely nothing in the canto bight story was necessary to have that very unrelated outcome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 07, 2018, 03:12:41 AM
Yeah but it’s a bit sad that it’s only direct consequence was for the coder to tell the First Order that there were smaller shuttles breaking off. Absolutely nothing in the canto bight story was necessary to have that very unrelated outcome.

I thought that sequence was a huge part of Rose's character development, seeing where she came from & learning what the fight against the first order meant for her as a person. At least that's what the subplot served for me. Plus I think it made the circumstances more dire, having them not finding the master coder stacked the odds that bit extra against them & in my opinion, made the finale to the subplot that much more engaging. I kind of agree that it wasn't totally necessary to the MAIN plotline, but I think the movie wouldn't have been as strong without it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 07, 2018, 03:14:13 AM
Yeah but it’s a bit sad that it’s only direct consequence was for the coder to tell the First Order that there were smaller shuttles breaking off. Absolutely nothing in the canto bight story was necessary to have that very unrelated outcome.
The only reason they met DJ was because of how things went down, otherwise they'd have come back with the codebreaker they were supposed to meet. And the only reason everything else afterwards happened the way it did was because they met DJ, who sold them out. The entire final act of the film was a direct consequence.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 07, 2018, 03:50:38 AM
I think what the Canto Bight stuff also showed us, was that there's essentially a lot more to the First Order / Resistance battles than we've seen in all the films this far. The film showed us multiple angles from which to view all the conflicts happening. In essence, the Canto Bight sequence enriched the Star Wars universe to some account. Also, the 'big reveal' that Rey's parents were apparent nobodies, coupled with the broom boy at the end force-grabbing his broom, shows us that heroes can be born from anywhere. Underneath the seemingly jolly atmosphere of Canto Bight, a rebellion is being born. It was necessary to show this, because it actively speaks 'hope' in a time where the entire resistance is stuck on the Falcon at the end of the film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 07, 2018, 04:03:11 AM
I've said it before, but i loved the theme that heroes can come from anywhere! Blood of heroes is no guarantee that you become a hero yourself, as seen in Ben/Kylo.

Also can we talk about the throne room scene! I was completely fine that there wasn't a traditional lightsaber duel in this movie. That throne room scene was awesome! Could be one of my favorite action scenes in the entire saga. Insanely well choreographed and shot! It was like straight out of The Matrix!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 07, 2018, 04:33:32 AM
the throne room scene was amazingly well executed. I also didn't mind there being no 'proper' lightsaber battle. Actually, I've read somewhere that stuff like that could potentially get stale. Every Star Wars film features a lightsaber battle, it's not that special anymore to see yet another one. This film did great in that respect on multiple instances; lots of expectations were smashed and killed off. The film really brought some fresh stuff to the table, which was a fine welcome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Podaar on January 07, 2018, 05:22:44 AM
While we're discussing the throne room action scene. What is everyone's view on the lack of "force-acrobatics" in these recent movies. I was very happy that the "prequel" level was abandoned (of course) but I thought the original trilogy was fun for having a few flips and super jumps, especially to help distinguish between the light and dark force users.

I also like the creative choice that Kylo Ren actually uses the force without grace or mastery but like a huge sledge hammer and with brute force. Vader disdainfully and gracefully deflected blaster shots (in spite of his physical limitations) but Ren grabs them in the air like he wants to choke them to death. When Ren fights, he tends to plant his feet wide and bend at the waist like he's ready to take on a hurricane. There's a juvenile "hey look how evil and bad-ass I am" quality to Ren that I think is great too. It makes people underestimate him (I'm looking at you Snoke). He's turning out to be a pretty good manipulator, although it was fun seeing Luke get in the last punch on that front.  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 07, 2018, 05:52:59 AM
The only reason they met DJ was because of how things went down, otherwise they'd have come back with the codebreaker they were supposed to meet. And the only reason everything else afterwards happened the way it did was because they met DJ, who sold them out. The entire final act of the film was a direct consequence.

But it’s thematically and dramatically unrelated to everything that went on on Canto Bight. There is a huge bullshit animal cruelty subplot and war profiteering subplot here that played absolutely zero into relevant events. Although the war profiteering stuff was at least somewhat relevant, at least thematically, and I wish they would have focused on that more instead of all the other crap that story line gave us. Yes, the third act is a censequence, but only because DJ overheared a phone call, something that did not need like 30 minutes of really boring set up. Nothing else that happened mattered even though they try to make it seem like it.

”Now it’s worth it.”
I gasped in disbelief at that line because it’s astronomically stupid. They will have rebuilt that city and recaptured those animals tomorrow. They did way too little of value for the story to justify that much time being wasted on their side quest.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 07, 2018, 06:12:30 AM
The only reason they met DJ was because of how things went down, otherwise they'd have come back with the codebreaker they were supposed to meet. And the only reason everything else afterwards happened the way it did was because they met DJ, who sold them out. The entire final act of the film was a direct consequence.
But it’s thematically and dramatically unrelated to everything that went on on Canto Bight. There is a huge bullshit animal cruelty subplot and war profiteering subplot here that played absolutely zero into relevant events. Although the war profiteering stuff was at least somewhat relevant, at least thematically, and I wish they would have focused on that more instead of all the other crap that story line gave us. Yes, the third act is a censequence, but only because DJ overheared a phone call, something that did not need like 30 minutes of really boring set up. Nothing else that happened mattered even though they try to make it seem like it.

”Now it’s worth it.”
I gasped in disbelief at that line because it’s astronomically stupid. They will have rebuilt that city and recaptured those animals tomorrow. They did way too little of value for the story to justify that much time being wasted on their side quest.
That's fine, but there's plenty of that in the original trilogy too. Everything to with Jabba the Hut, for example. And the Ewoks, good lord.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 07, 2018, 06:16:54 AM
Like people complaining we never got to know who Snoke is or where he came from.. I must say, I am rather intrigued and want to know if there's some deeper connection as well, and I'm sure that if it's relevant we will find out eventually, but are the complainers forgetting that the Emperor in the original trilogy also didn't have any back-story whatsoever? Nobody knew who he was or where he came from, he was just the 'big bad guy'.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 07, 2018, 06:25:43 AM
That's fine, but there's plenty of that in the original trilogy too. Everything to with Jabba the Hut, for example. And the Ewoks, good lord.

I won’t defend the ewok stuff in terms of quality, but at least they joined in the fight against the empire, so purely from a relevance standpoint they weren’t completely pointless. Still pretty ridiculous though.

And while the Jabba stuff isn’t that important other than getting Han out of the carbonite, and the scenes tend to drag a bit, at least it feels more interesting and less preachy than Canto Bight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 07, 2018, 06:31:49 AM
That's fine, but there's plenty of that in the original trilogy too. Everything to with Jabba the Hut, for example. And the Ewoks, good lord.

I won’t defend the ewok stuff in terms of quality, but at least they joined in the fight against the empire, so purely from a relevance standpoint they weren’t completely pointless. Still pretty ridiculous though.

And while the Jabba stuff isn’t that important other than getting Han out of the carbonite, and the scenes tend to drag a bit, at least it feels more interesting and less preachy than Canto Bight.
But that's not what the complaint was. You found the Canto Bight stuff boring, that's fine, I think I was pretty clear that I'm not talking about whether people like or dislike something, whether it speaks to people, or whatever. That's a matter of taste and that's all cool. My post was that there are dozens of specific complaints trying to justify why the new movie is inherently inferior to others.

This complaint was that the Canto Bight subplot was irrelevant and unnecessary, and my point is (1) it's actually extremely relevant to the main plot in terms of how things play out, and (2) there's plenty of equally on-a-tangent stuff in all the films. One or both of these applies to literally every complaint I've read (again, not counting where people just haven't liked it/enjoyed it or aspects of it, which is fine).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 07, 2018, 07:43:59 AM
Well, aren’t the two different complaints related though? My dislike for the Canto Bight scenes is based both on poor execution and irrelevance to the main plot. I’m not saying there’s nothing of relevance, just not enough to justify all the focus so the whole subplot ends up sticking out like a sore thumb, and that I found it boring only made that worse.

As to if this makes TLJ better or worse than the other SW movies, I don’t really care, I’m certainly not an OT purist or anything. I’m mostly interested in the content of the movie as it relates to the best potential version of itself. And in that area, Canto Bight is the largest offender.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 07, 2018, 07:48:54 AM
For me, the difference between Canto and Jabba (in ROTJ) is that without the Jabba/Tatooine storyline to rescue Han, the movie has no meaningful opening sequence, and we lose 30 minutes from the film.  Sure, you could rescue Han in 5 minutes or so, but then the movie is 1:45.  TLJ feels bloated because of Canto (it's already 2:32), and condensing/changing the sequence to get the outcome necessary to the rest of the film wouldn't have hurt it whatsoever.

The biggest takeaway I get from the opening of ROTJ is how much Luke's jedi skills have grown since the end of ESB.  You wouldn't get that from a quick snatch-and-grab.

Plus, Slave Leia.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 07, 2018, 09:30:44 AM
IMO....they did get the codebreaker they were looking for.   Immediately I thought that the guy wearing the lapel pin looked A) nothing like a "code breaker" of any sort", and B) nothing like the type of people that Maz would ever have in her inner circle.    Plus C) magically finding another (apparently extremely rare) expert code breaker who just happened to be sharing a cell with them is a major issue.   

For those reasons, I never thought even for one second that DJ was anything but the original expert code breaker they had been looking for all along, and I figured that (as gamblers often do) he had lost everything on a bet with the guy who had the lapel pin. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 07, 2018, 10:03:30 AM
That's what I assumed too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 07, 2018, 10:52:22 AM
That's what I assumed too.

Me three.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on January 07, 2018, 11:15:58 AM
I already explained why I don't think he was the original code breaker. I doubt tiny alien lady would have recommended someone who would so easily betray everyone else. But whatevs.


Also Ariich, I dunno what to tell you. You could literally find a reason to discount every single complaint about anything ever beyond "personally don't like it, but for some reason, I walked out of TLJ thinking "many, a lot of that felt absolutely pointless "when I didn't feel any of that with the other movies (prequels aside). There has to be a reason for that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 07, 2018, 01:43:03 PM
I already explained why I don't think he was the original code breaker. I doubt tiny alien lady would have recommended someone who would so easily betray everyone else. But whatevs.


Also Ariich, I dunno what to tell you. You could literally find a reason to discount every single complaint about anything ever beyond "personally don't like it, but for some reason, I walked out of TLJ thinking "many, a lot of that felt absolutely pointless "when I didn't feel any of that with the other movies (prequels aside). There has to be a reason for that.

Even with the prequels, I felt there was a point to pretty much all of the sub-plots, even if the acting was atrocious, and the storyline itself was ridiculous.  There was always a point contributing to the bigger picture.  Canto - especially the PETA stuff - I'm not so sure about the point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 07, 2018, 02:00:52 PM
Many stories in the sci-fi universe are riddled with anti-hero characters that have earned the trust of many, and then turned out not to be trustworthy, and I don't see why the Star Wars universe would be immune to a character such as that.   It's a big universe.   And the chosen profession (you can call it "code breaker" if you want, but he's a gambler and basically a thief) is automatically shifty in its loyalties.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on January 07, 2018, 02:04:17 PM
Don't get me wrong, you can make an argument for that, as well as just about anything else.

You could argue that lizard lazy sent them there just to see the truth about the socio-economic stuff in the galaxy and that it was all just a big lesson.

Problem is, it's just making an argument. The story told us something and didn't give us any reason to doubt what they told us. So I'm just sticking with what the story told us.


Also the story is FILLED with subverted expectations. So him NOT being the real guy actually fits more in line with what Rian was doing for much of the movie,.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 08, 2018, 07:24:00 AM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

Think this is probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

I disagree with this as a blanket statement. Some of the complaints? For sure! But I can't think of any of the original films where an entire elongated subplot amounted to virtually nothing and could have been completely cut out without much consequence.


If memory serves, the ten or fifteen minute sequence in Return of the Jedi where our heroes get captured by Ewoks feels similar. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison by any means, but both feel very "bathroom break" and "this could have been done better" to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 08, 2018, 10:20:44 AM
For me, the difference between Canto and Jabba (in ROTJ) is that without the Jabba/Tatooine storyline to rescue Han, the movie has no meaningful opening sequence, and we lose 30 minutes from the film.  Sure, you could rescue Han in 5 minutes or so, but then the movie is 1:45. 

Plus, Slave Leia.

 Exactly, the whole Jabba scene was necessary in ROTJ.  Jabba had a bounty on solos head because he owed him a lot of money. It wasn't gonna be any easy task to rescue Han Solo, so they had to make a pretty extensive scene out of the process.  It was executed very well. I liked how Jabba was totally immune to Jedi mind tricks or use of the Force, lol!
 The Rancor scene was awesome! I remember that monster freaked me out when I saw that movie for the first time in a big Theater (UA 150 in Seattle) at 11 years old.. I would like to see how Jabba aquired that thing and where it came from.
The scene at the Sarlaac pit was awesome too, good way for Boba-fett to go out followed by a nice belch!
 Too bad Lucas had to ruin part of the Jabba Scenes when he added the different song and CGI characters to the music scene with Sy Snootles,, ughh!  The remasters are an epic fail..
 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 08, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Return of the Jedi got the short end of the stick when it comes to the remasters!

I don't have problems with the changes to Empire. New Hope changes i can tolerate. But the sing/dance number by the cgi monstrosities in Jabbas palace is wrong on so many levels. Vader shouting NOOO, just destroys the tension in the throne room scene!

For the record, i like the new victory celebration song better than Yub Nub though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 08, 2018, 01:21:10 PM
I finally saw The Last Jedi last night.  I thought it was pretty good, but really long.  It had flaws, it had good stuff, it was a Star Wars movie.

I can't think of anything to add that others haven't already said.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 08, 2018, 01:24:24 PM
I do like the new victory song, but I still like the original Yub Nub better. I hated they way the original Anakin ghost was replaced with the Christian Hayden one. I can see why, but it doesn't work. So wrong.
Yeah ROTJ got screwed the worst on the remasters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 08, 2018, 04:04:10 PM
Exactly, the whole Jabba scene was necessary in ROTJ.

Was it now? There's what, three years(?) between the events of ANH and ESB and there was no way whatsoever Han could have paid back the bounty on his head?

Apart from that, the overall improbability of the entire first half hour of ROTJ makes it my least favourite 30 minutes out of the entire original trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 08, 2018, 04:14:56 PM
Exactly, the whole Jabba scene was necessary in ROTJ.

Was it now? There's what, three years(?) between the events of ANH and ESB and there was no way whatsoever Han could have paid back the bounty on his head?

Apart from that, the overall improbability of the entire first half hour of ROTJ makes it my least favourite 30 minutes out of the entire original trilogy.
Well that's just weird, because the whole Jabba Scene kicks arss!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 12, 2018, 06:43:58 AM
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/26219957_589723708044365_3953430896771247937_n.jpg?oh=05360158367998bbaad53e10f9fe3a7a&oe=5AFCE63D)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 12, 2018, 07:34:34 AM
^^^  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 12, 2018, 08:08:35 AM
That whole thing with Rose and Finn was the biggest WTF in the entire movie for me.  For one, Rose was the younger sister of someone we'd seen die valiantly, and I thought she was supposed to be like 12 years old, but okay I figured you're never too young to join the resistance.  Then they went on that whole mission to find the hacker, didn't find him but did manage to find a guy who claimed to be a hacker, but then he betrayed them and the mission failed.  Nice waste of half an hour there.

Then Finn is ready to sacrifice himself to take out the nuclear battering ram thing, and Rose takes him out.  Why!?  After wasting the entire movie, I figured Finn was gonna at least go out with a heroic exit, but no.  Somewhere in there, she kissed him, and I finally realized that she's not supposed to be 12.  15 maybe?  But that whole thing made no fucking sense.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 12, 2018, 08:12:58 AM
That whole thing with Rose and Finn was the biggest WTF in the entire movie for me.  For one, Rose was the younger sister of someone we'd seen die valiantly, and I thought she was supposed to be like 12 years old, but okay I figured you're never too young to join the resistance.  Then they went on that whole mission to find the hacker, didn't find him but did manage to find a guy who claimed to be a hacker, but then he betrayed them and the mission failed.  Nice waste of half an hour there.

Then Finn is ready to sacrifice himself to take out the nuclear battering ram thing, and Rose takes him out.  Why!?  After wasting the entire movie, I figured Finn was gonna at least go out with a heroic exit, but no.  Somewhere in there, she kissed him, and I finally realized that she's not supposed to be 12.  15 maybe?  But that whole thing made no fucking sense.

What? I know asians look young, but she's 28 man. She's older than John Boyega. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 12, 2018, 08:34:26 AM
I guess it was my first impression and I couldn't get past it.  In that whatever-suit she was wearing when we first met her, she looked like a little kid in pajamas, the suit was too big for her and I figured it was supposed to be that way.  I didn't help that Boyega isn't exactly tall, and she was much smaller that him.  I thought she was supposed to be a kid, and even as the story unfolded, I couldn't shake that image.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 12, 2018, 08:50:58 AM
We didn’t see much of Paige, but after getting a whole movie with Rose, I love Paige. Wish we could have gotten that sister for all of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on January 12, 2018, 08:58:16 AM
Rose was a waste of time and money, shouldn't have even been in the film other than a throwaway character as Finn tries to leave. But nope... ugh
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 12, 2018, 12:28:47 PM
That whole thing with Rose and Finn was the biggest WTF in the entire movie for me.  For one, Rose was the younger sister of someone we'd seen die valiantly, and I thought she was supposed to be like 12 years old, but okay I figured you're never too young to join the resistance.  Then they went on that whole mission to find the hacker, didn't find him but did manage to find a guy who claimed to be a hacker, but then he betrayed them and the mission failed.  Nice waste of half an hour there.

Then Finn is ready to sacrifice himself to take out the nuclear battering ram thing, and Rose takes him out.  Why!?  After wasting the entire movie, I figured Finn was gonna at least go out with a heroic exit, but no.  Somewhere in there, she kissed him, and I finally realized that she's not supposed to be 12.  15 maybe?  But that whole thing made no fucking sense.

What? I know asians look young, but she's 28 man. She's older than John Boyega. :lol

I know right.  It's like Bob's racist or something!  :lol  Is this like a case where black people are allowed to use the N word?  Asians can bitch about how young other Asians look?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 12, 2018, 12:50:28 PM
I guess it was my first impression and I couldn't get past it.
I think this might be an indication of your age, rather than hers. ;)

Rose was awesome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 12, 2018, 01:00:32 PM
That whole thing with Rose and Finn was the biggest WTF in the entire movie for me.  For one, Rose was the younger sister of someone we'd seen die valiantly, and I thought she was supposed to be like 12 years old, but okay I figured you're never too young to join the resistance.  Then they went on that whole mission to find the hacker, didn't find him but did manage to find a guy who claimed to be a hacker, but then he betrayed them and the mission failed.  Nice waste of half an hour there.

Then Finn is ready to sacrifice himself to take out the nuclear battering ram thing, and Rose takes him out.  Why!?  After wasting the entire movie, I figured Finn was gonna at least go out with a heroic exit, but no.  Somewhere in there, she kissed him, and I finally realized that she's not supposed to be 12.  15 maybe?  But that whole thing made no fucking sense.

What? I know asians look young, but she's 28 man. She's older than John Boyega. :lol

I know right.  It's like Bob's racist or something!  :lol  Is this like a case where black people are allowed to use the N word?  Asians can bitch about how young other Asians look?

Yep.

I guess it was my first impression and I couldn't get past it.
I think this might be an indication of your age, rather than hers. ;)

Yep.

Rose was awesome.

Nope.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 12, 2018, 01:16:49 PM
I guess it was my first impression and I couldn't get past it.
I think this might be an indication of your age, rather than hers. ;)

Rose was awesome.

Yep!

They could have done a lot more with Rose, but the movie is pretty overstuffed as it is. Her speech at the end could have been cut altogether though! :biggrin: Okay, let her save Finn, but the collision could have just knocked her out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 12, 2018, 07:43:06 PM
Quote from: Orber

What? I know asians look young, but she's 28 man. She's older than John Boyega. :lol
[/quote

I know right.  It's like Bob's racist or something!  :lol  Is this like a case where black people are allowed to use the N word?  Asians can bitch about how young other Asians look?
  :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 17, 2018, 07:55:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/3qfCGxA.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 17, 2018, 09:49:31 AM
:lol

Although I'd hardly call Poe trusting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 19, 2018, 12:20:07 PM
(https://imgur.com/HEEMtoJ.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on January 19, 2018, 01:13:41 PM
Any word on when there will be a trailer for Solo? Seems odd that the movie will be out in less than 4 months and there hasn't been anything release yet. I still think they should move it to December. I sense that regardless of how good or bad the film turns out that it's going to bomb in May for number of reasons including lack of marketing, fatigue from The Last Jedi, and The Avengers film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 19, 2018, 03:00:34 PM
Any word on when there will be a trailer for Solo? Seems odd that the movie will be out in less than 4 months and there hasn't been anything release yet. I still think they should move it to December. I sense that regardless of how good or bad the film turns out that it's going to bomb in May for number of reasons including lack of marketing, fatigue from The Last Jedi, and The Avengers film.

And Deadpool 2
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 19, 2018, 09:24:44 PM
I don't know how this trainwreck hasn't been pushed back to December yet. We're not that far out yet, and we've yet to see a single second of footage from this movie. It would be in their best interest to give this more time, not just for the sake of this movie, but the franchise in general.

I can just imagine Disney mentioning a big Solo announcement and everyone expects a trailer, only for them to announce a new December date. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on January 20, 2018, 05:29:14 AM
I also wonder if this delay in releasing a trailer is them deciding if this movie should be pushed back to December. I personally like others would not mind a Star Wars release every December.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 20, 2018, 05:38:54 AM
I've been quite liking the regular December releases, and I think having two SW movies only half a year apart could cause some franchise fatigue.
On top of that, expectations for this movie are quite low, and coming off the mixed reception to TLJ, it could hurt them in the long run. Hopefully the rumours of this movie being bad are overstated as they were with Rogue One, but there's no buzz for this right now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 20, 2018, 10:33:22 AM
Ron Howard does give me hope.   He's not incapable of making a bad movie (as I've heard the DaVinci Code was a steaming turd), but he's got a pretty good track record.   He's certainly had far more good outings than bad. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 20, 2018, 11:29:49 AM
Ron Howard was put in a tough situation, being a replacement director at such a late stage, so I won't blame him if it turns out to be a turd.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 20, 2018, 08:54:37 PM
I like the idea of having an early summer release. Star Wars every six months is fine with me if they can have the capacity and creativity to keep it exciting. I think the Solo movie will be fun, it makes me wonder if that movie will be a little more light hearted? I mean, a young Han Solo on his adventures being a smuggler for Jabba and cruising the Melleniam Falcon around the galaxy. I hope they have a lot of Jabba The Butt in this movie and his dealings with Solo and the Wookie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on January 22, 2018, 06:51:27 AM
There is no reason to have this released in May. If Disney goes this route then I think it will be their first major mistake with the Franchise. They won't be hurting for money considering they have 3 Marvel films being released in a 7 month time frame. The only way I see them releasing this in May is if they know they fucked up and made a shitty movie and want it out and forgotten once the Avengers comes out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 22, 2018, 08:53:43 AM
The only way I see them releasing this in May is if they know they fucked up and made a shitty movie and want it out and forgotten once the Avengers comes out.
Or they have a completed film and want to stick with the original schedule. No reason to think that in and of itself is a bad sign.

Marvel releases several movies a year and they're all at least partially interrelated. While I think there is a bit of Marvel fatigue going on, they are mostly really enjoyable movies and do well commercially. No reason they can't have two Star Wars movies released within 6 months of each other. Though I would prefer they stick to one December release per year.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 22, 2018, 09:24:39 AM
The reason why people are tending toward "negative speculation" regarding the Solo movie is because there has been zero promotion for it thus far, and overall very little media buzz (other than all the behind-the-scenes issues).  If the movie is coming out in four months, especially a Star Wars movie, we would normally be getting hammered by promo for it by now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on January 22, 2018, 09:25:56 AM
Well it’s the lack of promo AND all the negative buzz.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 22, 2018, 09:41:38 AM
Sure, I get all that. There's plenty of reason to be worried. I just don't think sticking to the original schedule, even with all the reshoots, is one of them. Now if they are doing reshoots in April, it would make me worried.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 22, 2018, 09:41:49 AM
Calling it now, they are going to delay it for a couple of months, possibly even as far as December!

Four months out, and not even a teaser trailer, weird...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 22, 2018, 09:48:32 AM
It is weird. Even with all the rumored issues, I find it hard to believe they couldn't have come out with a teaser trailer by now. They could have cobbled together something with the original footage they ended up supposedly tossing out. If they movie is so bad they can't even put together a 1 minute teaser, they might as well cut their losses and can the whole thing. I suspect there are other reasons, and I also suspect that they would have delayed the release date by now if they were going to. But we'll see. Wouldn't be surprised either way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on January 22, 2018, 09:57:44 AM
I heard a rumor that we'll get a teaser this week maybe.

In the end, I doubt the movie will be terrible. Obviously some people will hate it, just as they hated every other SW movie (even SW fans), some people will love it cause it will be fun and have tons of fan service, and most people will think it's just okay.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 22, 2018, 10:01:00 AM
The only way I see them releasing this in May is if they know they fucked up and made a shitty movie and want it out and forgotten once the Avengers comes out.
Or they have a completed film and want to stick with the original schedule. No reason to think that in and of itself is a bad sign.

Marvel releases several movies a year and they're all at least partially interrelated. While I think there is a bit of Marvel fatigue going on, they are mostly really enjoyable movies and do well commercially. No reason they can't have two Star Wars movies released within 6 months of each other. Though I would prefer they stick to one December release per year.

Yeah, I agree with all of that, lordxizor. 

And with the "Marvel fatigue," we've been getting MCU films at the clip of 2-3 a year for several years now (which they know they can afford to do because most fans are onboard at least until Infinity War concludes).  We're nowhere near that level of market saturation with Star Wars.  I don't see the timing as an issue in and of itself.  The main issue will simply be the quality of the film.  If it is good, the timing will work in favor for the SW universe.  If it is bad, I don't really see the timing having an impact other than people trying to argue that it was "rushed."  But I don't really see timing being the issue if the quality is just lacking because I don't see anything suggesting that things have been rushed on this film.

It is weird. Even with all the rumored issues, I find it hard to believe they couldn't have come out with a teaser trailer by now. They could have cobbled together something with the original footage they ended up supposedly tossing out. If they movie is so bad they can't even put together a 1 minute teaser, they might as well cut their losses and can the whole thing. I suspect there are other reasons, and I also suspect that they would have delayed the release date by now if they were going to. But we'll see. Wouldn't be surprised either way.

Yeah, same here.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 22, 2018, 10:04:10 AM
I heard a rumor that we'll get a teaser this week maybe.

In the end, I doubt the movie will be terrible. Obviously some people will hate it, just as they hated every other SW movie (even SW fans), some people will love it cause it will be fun and have tons of fan service, and most people will think it's just okay.

I really don't know what to expect and cannot predict how I will feel about it.  My interest level in a Solo-specific film is low.  And my expectations for it are low.  But as I've mentioned before, I felt that way about Rogue One as well before I had seen a trailer for it, and I ended up loving that film. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 22, 2018, 10:52:24 AM
I heard a rumor that we'll get a teaser this week maybe.

I've been seeing rumours speculating for just about every day this month, but there will have to be some info very soon, whether it be a trailer or delay announcement (I haven't seen any actual rumours of delays though surprisingly)

Rogue One is the main reason I'm trying to reserve judgement, as the word on that movie was not good concerning reshoots and editing, and the trailer ended up containing a lot of things that weren't even in the movie, and yet it's been my favourite of the Disney Star Wars movies so far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on January 26, 2018, 03:46:06 PM
Disney is being reserved because they know they are going to lose potential profits by having two back to back shitty movies. Solo has probably been re-written 50 times. They should just scrap it!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 26, 2018, 06:22:27 PM
What was the other one?   The Last Jedi was amazing!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 26, 2018, 07:27:54 PM
The Last Jedi was amazing!

Agreed  :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on January 27, 2018, 08:03:26 PM
Amazing?  :loser:

It was okay but far far away from amazing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 28, 2018, 01:48:03 AM
Nah it was awesome, the more I think about it, the more I think it's probably my second favourite behind Empire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 28, 2018, 01:58:23 AM
I can't say that i prefer it over any of the originals, but it was still very good!

Ben/Ren is just as compelling of a villain as Vader IMO.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2018, 02:27:11 AM
The more I think about TLJ, the more I think what the hell were they thinking.
It goes without saying that it's still better than the prequels, but that's not saying much in itself. The whole tone of the film was off, and it did a lot of damage to the trilogy. I don't envy JJ having to follow that. When all is said and done, I think this is going to be a really odd and jarring trilogy to watch back to back. There were good moments in there, but it's not a movie I'd ever want to watch again.

And what is happening with this Solo film?? Is it coming out in May or not? It's alarming that we're potentially this close to a release date without seeing so much as a single frame of the film. Apparently they're renaming the movie in China to remove any association with Star Wars after the poor performance of TLJ there. Is it even worth releasing it at all there in that case? The main appeal of this movie is that it's a backstory to a beloved OT character, which means nothing to the Chinese audience.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 28, 2018, 05:12:33 AM
It's really difficult to decide what I actually think of The Last Jedi. The highs are so high, the lows are pretty darn low to be honest, and there's a lot of just weird stuff and decisions throughout. It makes for an overall enjoyable experience, but tainted so deeply by certain parts that it's nearly impossible for me to maintain a consistant view of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 28, 2018, 05:19:12 AM
Nah it was awesome, the more I think about it, the more I think it's probably my second favourite behind Empire.

Certainly makes sense, since it's a clone of ESB.  :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 28, 2018, 09:13:02 AM
TLJ actually REALLY ticked me off at first, but it’s almost like the first time I heard Frank Zappa....you could tell there was a lot of thought behind it, but it was jarring....it challenged me. 

Now I think it’s an absolutely brilliant film.   I’ve said it elsewhere, and I can’t remember if I said it here or not, but The Force Awakens was pop music, and The Last Jedi is jazz.   I love this trilogy so far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2018, 05:50:43 PM
I can't say I see that comparison at all. They're both Hollywood pop music.
I had a lot of problems with TFA coming out of the cinema despite really enjoying it for what it was, but after thought and discussion, a lot of those problems could either be explained, or were acceptable pending where they took those plot points in the next film.
I had even more issues with TLJ coming out of the cinema, and the more I think about it, the more those decisions just bother me in the grand scheme of the franchise. And even more unfortunately, it's also hurt TFA by destroying most of what it established. So it was not only a disappointing movie, but it made TFA worse for me too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 28, 2018, 08:41:45 PM
TLJ actually REALLY ticked me off at first, but it’s almost like the first time I heard Frank Zappa....you could tell there was a lot of thought behind it, but it was jarring....it challenged me. 

Now I think it’s an absolutely brilliant film.   I’ve said it elsewhere, and I can’t remember if I said it here or not, but The Force Awakens was pop music, and The Last Jedi is jazz.   I love this trilogy so far.

Does that mean the prequels were Metal Machine Music?  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on January 28, 2018, 09:12:19 PM
I had a lot of problems with TFA coming out of the cinema despite really enjoying it for what it was, but after thought and discussion, a lot of those problems could either be explained, or were acceptable pending where they took those plot points in the next film.
I had even more issues with TLJ coming out of the cinema, and the more I think about it, the more those decisions just bother me in the grand scheme of the franchise. And even more unfortunately, it's also hurt TFA by destroying most of what it established. So it was not only a disappointing movie, but it made TFA worse for me too.

Interesting assessment.  Unlike you though, I didn't think TFA had many problems, other than I didn't find it very interesting. I support your feeling TLJ destroyed much of what TFA established, if you feel it established anything worthwhile. I don't.

Looking back, for me the most interesting thing about TFA was Han, the most interesting thing about TLJ was Luke. *shrug.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 29, 2018, 01:08:52 AM
I didn't feel that TLJ destroyed any of the foundations set by TFA.

I felt that it shifted the focus away from things that were not important. I don't think anyone is going to miss a cgi emperor knockoff..

Most interesting part of this trilogy for me is Kylo Ren, and i liked that he moved into the spotlight as the main villain.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: noxon on January 29, 2018, 01:47:59 AM
Speculation, fan theories and expectations based on that destroyed The Last Jedi. Familiarity of something makes it easier to like it. When the fan theories on the internet were all about "Rey must be a Skywalker (child of either Luke or Leia) - the fact that the movie revealed that she's a nobody was a kick in the groin to the already "established truth". The same goes for the fan theories about Snoke. And an imense heap of stories in the expanded universe (or rather as Disney calls it now - "Legends") also established some truths - like what powers Jedis actually have and how the light and dark side of the force works. I think the sum of it is as simple as "fandom ruined Star Wars". I don't really understand how else to explain the discrepancy between the critic reviews and the audience reactions...

Me, personally, I loved it. The experience was powerful and imense. There were things I took issue with - but man, it wouldnt be a Star Wars movie if there wasnt something incredibly dumb in it too ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2018, 02:52:44 AM
Speculation, fan theories and expectations based on that destroyed The Last Jedi. Familiarity of something makes it easier to like it. When the fan theories on the internet were all about "Rey must be a Skywalker (child of either Luke or Leia) - the fact that the movie revealed that she's a nobody was a kick in the groin to the already "established truth". The same goes for the fan theories about Snoke. And an imense heap of stories in the expanded universe (or rather as Disney calls it now - "Legends") also established some truths - like what powers Jedis actually have and how the light and dark side of the force works. I think the sum of it is as simple as "fandom ruined Star Wars". I don't really understand how else to explain the discrepancy between the critic reviews and the audience reactions...

Me, personally, I loved it. The experience was powerful and imense. There were things I took issue with - but man, it wouldnt be a Star Wars movie if there wasnt something incredibly dumb in it too ;)
This so much.

I personally find the notion that TLJ ruined anything about TFA or the original trilogy very silly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 05:01:58 AM
Good post Noxon, though I will dispute one point regarding Jedi powers... two glaring examples from TFA that created the whole interwebz discussion on what powers they "should" have

1) 'freezing' a blaster bolt.  Vader couldn't (Cloud City dining room); Ren can.
2) Extracting memories.  Vader couldn't (Leia); Ren can.

I think that films in a franchise should respect the boundaries of what had been previously established - new technology and filming capabilities notwithstanding - eg, the evolution of light saber battles.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 29, 2018, 05:24:18 AM
Firstly, in terms of force abilities one should or should not have, I kind of see it as athletic feats. Most records keep being broken. They build on each other and improve naturally overtime. So I don’t find that implausible.

Secondly, while fan expectation absolutely plays a part, I don’t think it’s the whole issue. I love the ”Rey is nobody” twist, but I take issue with ”Snoke is nobody”. Why that is seems to be a very complicated matter, of which my personal expectations plays a minor part. That Snoke dies and Kylo Ren replaces him; great! Kylo is probably the most interesting character in this new trilogy so I love that he will take the top spot. But I have a bit of a problem with how it happened, because I felt that it lacked something from a storytelling perspective.

And of course, Canto Bight, which is just a bad sequence and has nothing to do with expectations.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on January 29, 2018, 09:57:42 AM
I had even more issues with TLJ coming out of the cinema, and the more I think about it, the more those decisions just bother me in the grand scheme of the franchise. And even more unfortunately, it's also hurt TFA by destroying most of what it established. So it was not only a disappointing movie, but it made TFA worse for me too.

I feel the same as you describe.

As far as Solo goes, my biggest question is why? Why F with Harrison Ford's Han Solo legacy? I get that he was a popular character but look at young Indiana Jones for that matter. It's way too soon for a Solo movie for me. I will not give them a penny for the viewing of that film even in concept.  :tdwn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 29, 2018, 10:09:24 AM
As far as Solo goes, my biggest question is why?
I feel the same way. Why mess with iconic characters? I'll still go see it though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 29, 2018, 10:49:45 AM
Good post Noxon, though I will dispute one point regarding Jedi powers... two glaring examples from TFA that created the whole interwebz discussion on what powers they "should" have

1) 'freezing' a blaster bolt.  Vader couldn't (Cloud City dining room); Ren can.
2) Extracting memories.  Vader couldn't (Leia); Ren can.

I think that films in a franchise should respect the boundaries of what had been previously established - new technology and filming capabilities notwithstanding - eg, the evolution of light saber battles.
Yeah but Vader is more of a bad-ass. He could just deflect the blaster bolt using the palm of his hand. Notice when Solo fires at him when the door opens to the banquet room. I'm sure Vader could have used the force to freeze it in mid-air, but he just handled it old school. lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 29, 2018, 11:33:55 AM
Is Einstein any less of a genius because scientists today understand all of his theories and have expanded on them? Of course not. Kylo Ren simply took what Vader knew about the force and has expanded on it. Its no different than any field of study or athletics really. I don't need to have a manual about what is and is not possible with the force. As long as they make what seem to be incremental increases in force power rather than huge jumps, I'm OK with new force powers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Aelon on January 29, 2018, 11:54:33 AM
I'm not positive, but don't different Sith Lords specialize in different aspects of the force? Kind of like Jedi get to choose the color of their lightsaber?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 02:49:30 PM
Is Einstein any less of a genius because scientists today understand all of his theories and have expanded on them? Of course not. Kylo Ren simply took what Vader knew about the force and has expanded on it. Its no different than any field of study or athletics really. I don't need to have a manual about what is and is not possible with the force. As long as they make what seem to be incremental increases in force power rather than huge jumps, I'm OK with new force powers.

I see what you're saying, but I still think you're full of shit.   :rollin

Kidding!

It's my new favorite line to use.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 30, 2018, 09:23:54 AM
Speculation, fan theories and expectations based on that destroyed The Last Jedi. Familiarity of something makes it easier to like it. When the fan theories on the internet were all about "Rey must be a Skywalker (child of either Luke or Leia) - the fact that the movie revealed that she's a nobody was a kick in the groin to the already "established truth". The same goes for the fan theories about Snoke. And an imense heap of stories in the expanded universe (or rather as Disney calls it now - "Legends") also established some truths - like what powers Jedis actually have and how the light and dark side of the force works. I think the sum of it is as simple as "fandom ruined Star Wars". I don't really understand how else to explain the discrepancy between the critic reviews and the audience reactions...

Me, personally, I loved it. The experience was powerful and imense. There were things I took issue with - but man, it wouldnt be a Star Wars movie if there wasnt something incredibly dumb in it too ;)
This so much.

I personally find the notion that TLJ ruined anything about TFA or the original trilogy very silly.

Completely on board with you two.


ROTJ was on television last night. I watched it with the kiddos.....it was neat to see it again and I 'like' that movie. BUT.....if you hold it to the standard that TFA and TLJ are being held to it'd be shredded to pieces as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2018, 10:08:04 AM
ROTJ was on television last night. I watched it with the kiddos.....it was neat to see it again and I 'like' that movie. BUT.....if you hold it to the standard that TFA and TLJ are being held to it'd be shredded to pieces as well.

It DOES get shredded to pieces. As do the prequels. They get held to a similar standard.
But if there's a significant contradiction or discrepancy, it's the recent film that's at fault, not the originals. One of the many many reasons why the prequels failed. That and the fact they just sucked on every level of film making. :lol
There are plenty of bullshit criticisms of the recent films, especially regarding Rey, but there are also plenty of very valid ones even compared objectively to the originals. And the originals are not without their own flaws either of course.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 30, 2018, 10:49:10 AM
Not funny enough for the Funny Stuff thread, just weird and kinda twisted.  So it goes here.

(https://imgur.com/NIvJCpF.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 30, 2018, 11:15:59 AM
 :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 30, 2018, 11:55:05 AM
 :biggrin: :lol

That's funny!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 30, 2018, 11:59:19 AM
Personally, I would have put it in the Harvey Weinstein thread.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 30, 2018, 12:20:22 PM
 :omg:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on January 30, 2018, 05:16:03 PM
ROTJ was on television last night. I watched it with the kiddos.....it was neat to see it again and I 'like' that movie. BUT.....if you hold it to the standard that TFA and TLJ are being held to it'd be shredded to pieces as well.

It DOES get shredded to pieces. As do the prequels. They get held to a similar standard.
But if there's a significant contradiction or discrepancy, it's the recent film that's at fault, not the originals. One of the many many reasons why the prequels failed. That and the fact they just sucked on every level of film making. :lol
There are plenty of bullshit criticisms of the recent films, especially regarding Rey, but there are also plenty of very valid ones even compared objectively to the originals. And the originals are not without their own flaws either of course.

It was easier to overlook any flaws because the movies drew real emotions from the audience. None of those movies made me feel like I did when I saw this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9xytMepcj8
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on February 01, 2018, 07:01:06 PM
Not funny enough for the Funny Stuff thread, just weird and kinda twisted.  So it goes here.

(https://imgur.com/NIvJCpF.jpg)
The most cringeworthy part of the whole movie!  Why Disney,, WHY?!?!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 01, 2018, 08:38:53 PM
I guess the idea was to explain how Luke had been surviving there all this time.  What did he eat, what did he drink?  This answered part of that, and I guess the scene where Chewy was roasting a puffin was the rest of the answer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 01, 2018, 09:30:06 PM
Was the milk that came out the blue milk? If so, it might have been a dumb easter egg to explain where blue milk comes from. Mostly I think it was just stuck in as a dumb joke though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 01, 2018, 10:15:46 PM
I guess the idea was to explain how Luke had been surviving there all this time.  What did he eat, what did he drink?  This answered part of that, and I guess the scene where Chewy was roasting a puffin was the rest of the answer.

Thy also showed him spearing a huge fish.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 01, 2018, 10:39:03 PM
I thought he did, but I've only seen the movie once. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 01, 2018, 10:46:10 PM
Also Orbert, it's a Porg, not a Puffin. This is important.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 01, 2018, 11:00:18 PM
Honestly, for most of lonely island Luke, I was just thinking to myself "BUT HOW IS HE EATING AND DRINKING AND STUFF!?!?!?"

So I'm glad they answered those important questions.

Jedi temple history? Nah. Weird Sith underground chamber of mirrors? Nah.

Milk and fish? YES!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 06:25:35 AM
Also Orbert, it's a Porg, not a Puffin. This is important.

Same genus, different species.  They all taste exactly the same.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on February 02, 2018, 07:15:19 AM
Honestly, for most of lonely island Luke, I was just thinking to myself "BUT HOW IS HE EATING AND DRINKING AND STUFF!?!?!?"

So I'm glad they answered those important questions.

Jedi temple history? Nah. Weird Sith underground chamber of mirrors? Nah.

Milk and fish? YES!

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/500x/57592800/the-sarcasm-is-strong-with-this-one.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 02, 2018, 10:17:18 AM
I think that the official episodes will always be fighting an uphill battle because of fan expectations. Not only do they have to meet expectations as far as specific theories, but if the films are anything less than perfect, people will be disappointed because of the missed opportunity.

Speaking for myself, I went into VIII with no specific expectations. I enjoyed the movie. It's a solid 7/10 in my book. However, even though I consider myself to be a pretty low-maintenance fan, I can't shake a feeling of disappointment that I didn't enjoy it more. This is obviously completely unfair to the film, but that's kind of where Star Wars is now. It's hard to be logical about this stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 10:34:10 AM
I'm pretty much in the same boat.  While I was watching it, it was fine.  Funny stuff, action stuff, drama stuff, Star Wars stuff.

I try to avoid spoilers and pretty much anything else about a movie until after I've watched it, then afterwards, I like reading what others have to say.  I often get more out of the original experience, because people point of stuff I'd missed and other cool stuff I didn't even realize.  In a sense, I get more out of the movie because I can appreciate more of what it did.

In this case, however, there was a lot more "So that's it?  We never find out anything about Snoke?  Rey's parents were nobodies?  Luke and Leia's final scene together didn't actually happen?" and so on.

So I did it to myself, because I was okay with the movie until I realized all the stuff it didn't have and didn't explain or follow-up on from The Force Awakens.  After I watched The Force Awakens, I was expecting all that stuff, but I guess I'd forgotten all that.  A lot of movies are like that; plenty of fun to watch, but if you think too much about it later, you'll realize that there are holes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2018, 11:29:07 AM
I'm much closer to TOX.  I just liked it, period.  I get that some people don't like the issues you pointed out, Orbert.  I just object to them being called "holes."  They aren't.  They were conscious decisions, albeit controversial ones.  If people choose not to like them, that's all fine.  But they aren't just mistakes--they were conscious, creative decisions that are intentionally jarring.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 12:07:41 PM
You're right.  None of those are actual holes.  They're just stuff that people wanted but didn't get.

But at the same time, The Force Awakens did seem to hint at much more to be revealed, and we didn't get it (yet?)

No real background on Snoke, I can live with.  Stuff we thought we'd get but didn't, okay.  Chewy and Finn are now bit players.  But if Rey's parents really were nobodies, and she's not related to the Skywalkers, then what the hell was that when she first touched Luke's light saber back at Maz's place?  All the voices, including Obi-Wan's for some reason.  That really seemed to indicate much more than "Oh, she's Force-sensitive and picked up vibes from it."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2018, 12:20:58 PM
But if Rey's parents really were nobodies, and she's not related to the Skywalkers, then what the hell was that when she first touched Luke's light saber back at Maz's place?  All the voices, including Obi-Wan's for some reason.  That really seemed to indicate much more than "Oh, she's Force-sensitive and picked up vibes from it."

But I think the point from TLJ is that BOTH are true.  She IS force-sensitive.  AND she is not related to the Skywalkers.  She is force-sensitive just because she is.  The force "chose" her for some reason unrelated to the Skywalker line, and that's kinda cool, isn't it, for at least a couple of reasons?  First, I think it makes for a better overall story that, as Rian Johnson really tried to highlight in this last installment, the potential to be a hero is for EVERYBODY (in varying degrees), and the force is, to an extent, an extension of that.  Second, just from a creative storytelling point of view, it makes sense after all this time to start to shift away from the Skywalkers, doesn't it? 

So, my point is, I don't see why there is any conflict between VII and VIII. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 02, 2018, 12:36:28 PM
Rian Johnson has stated several times that Rey's parentage was done the way it was because it was the hardest thing for her to hear at the time. It's still possible, especially with JJ coming back to direct the next film, that she really isn't a nobody but that Snoke deceived both Kylo and Rey with that information. Now whether or not she's a Skywalker, or Kenobi or whatever is yet to be seen. Personally I like the way that TLJ ended because it really leaves pretty much everything up in the air for Episode 9. Really the only thing we know that's going to happen is that Leia won't be in it and Kylo will either die or turn good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 01:03:09 PM
I guess.  It's not a rule that the Star Wars saga has to be The Skywalker Family saga.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 02, 2018, 01:04:58 PM
I guess.  It's not a rule that the Star Wars saga has to be The Skywalker Family saga.

It mostly is. I just don't think EVERYTHING has to be. Ren is still kind of a skywalker. I don't think Rey needs anyone important.

In fact, one of the best things, I feel, about TLJ was saying that Rey's parents were nobodies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 02, 2018, 01:31:33 PM
I had a post a while back stating that I felt that Kylo's ark really is primary one in this trilogy. He's a Skywalker, and now with Luke and Leia gone he's the last Skywalker. We know that Episode 9 is the final film in the Skywalker saga so it would make sense that Kylo dies and the Skywalker line goes extinct. Rey will probably be responsible for the Jedi 2.0 so to speak and the galaxy moves on to a time of relative peace as it was prior to the Clone Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on February 02, 2018, 01:33:05 PM
We know that Episode 9 is the final film in the Skywalker saga...

Funny. In 1983 we knew that Episode 6 was the final film in the Skywalker saga.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 02, 2018, 02:09:51 PM
I think the core saga should be about the Skywalker's. If Ben Solo dies in 9, it should end. That doesn't mean there can't be more movies with Rey restarting the Jedi order or something. They just shouldn't be "Episodes".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 09:05:06 PM
Also Orbert, it's a Porg, not a Puffin. This is important.
Same genus, different species.  They all taste exactly the same.

Oh, come on!  Nobody?

Too obscure, I guess.  That's a quote from ALF.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on February 02, 2018, 09:55:11 PM
Also Orbert, it's a Porg, not a Puffin. This is important.
Same genus, different species.  They all taste exactly the same.

Oh, come on!  Nobody?

Too obscure, I guess.  That's a quote from ALF.  Oh well.

Don't worry Bob, no one will judge you for that either.   :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 04, 2018, 05:59:55 PM
I don't know why they wasted time on that teaser if they're releasing a full trailer tomorrow. They really need to come out of the gate with all they've got on this, because this does nothing at all to give me confidence yet. On the plus side, there's nothing bad in there, but there's just kind of nothing. Very little shown of Han yet, very little of the Falcon (I can't even tell if those leaked promo images were true or not). Lando still managed to steal the show with his one shot though. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 04, 2018, 07:23:43 PM
Saw the Solo trailer tonight during the Super Bowl.  Didn't hear it, just saw it.  I was working out and had my iPod on while watching the game.

Looked like a Star Wars movie.  Sounded like Chicago at Carnegie Hall.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on February 04, 2018, 08:21:33 PM
Looks really cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 04, 2018, 09:46:45 PM
Looks really cool.

I mean, the effects looked cool. The trailer didn't look like anything at all. Just a bunch of establishing shots.

Did anyone expect bad effects and visuals?

But this is a trailer for the trailer tomorrow? I dunno. Obviously that one will include more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 04, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
I find it hard to get excited about nothing but CGI and a few glancing shots of characters. My last concern on a big budget Hollywood movie is the visuals.
Should I be concerned how little they showed of the main character given the reports of so many reshoots and needing an acting coach? I don't even know yet. Am I going to be able to sit through this movie for two hours and pretend this dude is Han Solo? No idea. A teaser doesn't show enough to address those concerns. This doesn't even get me excited about seeing the full trailer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on February 05, 2018, 12:51:45 AM
Looked cool on first glance! But let's judge this thing tomorrow when we have the full trailer..

I'm wondering though, where in the timeline this takes place?

Falcon looks really clean inside, and Han looks like barely a teenager.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 05, 2018, 12:59:05 AM
Looked cool on first glance! But let's judge this thing tomorrow when we have the full trailer..

I'm wondering though, where in the timeline this takes place?

Falcon looks really clean inside, and Han looks like barely a teenager.

Alden Ehrenreich is about 7 years younger than Harrison Ford was for ANH, so maybe 5-10 years before ANH. The movie may not be that specific about it.
I'm pretty sure Han wins the Falcon in this movie (along with every other bit of backstory they could shoehorn in), so I guess it was either new or well kept before Han got his hands on it and started smuggling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 05, 2018, 07:04:26 AM
Well, the full trailer did not make any difference. I'm not feeling that this is Han Solo, and the Falcon isn't even the familiar design from the OT (but I guess they needed new merch to sell to the kiddies). Didn't see any dialogue from Lando either. The start of the trailer was just a massive WTF and I thought it was a joke at first. The rest was eh.
I'll be seeing the movie anyway, but I'm expecting it to be very average.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 05, 2018, 07:20:51 AM
Hmmm, I'm not feeling it either. From what I've seen so far I think it will be an uphill battle to convince people that this guy is Han Solo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 05, 2018, 07:28:39 AM
That was always going to be a problem from the moment this film was announced, which is why many people have not been too happy about it happening at all.
Wanna bet the action sequence at the end of the trailer is Han doing the Kessel run?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 05, 2018, 07:43:38 AM
Hmmm, I'm not feeling it either. From what I've seen so far I think it will be an uphill battle to convince people that this guy is Han Solo.

The only way it’ll even be close is if this dude was able to capture Harrison Fords mannerisms and speech patterns that he used portraying Han. IF he did that then that’d be easier to digest him as young Han. I just don’t see how one could pull that off though......Han is so Iconic that it’s a near impossible task.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 05, 2018, 07:58:13 AM
Definitely "iconic" is the word for such a character.

I'm not sure what choice the filmmakers had - you either get someone to do a good impersonation of Harrison Ford, maybe like that guy from Age of Adaline, but who possibly isn't that great of an actor. Or, you get someone else with their own style, but with an equal amount of charm and charisma.

I don't think we got either of those things in that trailer. Still, time will tell..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 05, 2018, 08:00:48 AM
That somehow looked worse than the initial teaser trailer.


In the initial teaser, that shot of the star destroyer in the whatever vortex looking thing was really cool, but the expanded scene of it was just silly and over the top.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 05, 2018, 08:04:27 AM
Definitely "iconic" is the word for such a character.

I'm not sure what choice the filmmakers had - you either get someone to do a good impersonation of Harrison Ford, maybe like that guy from Age of Adaline, but who possibly isn't that great of an actor. Or, you get someone else with their own style, but with an equal amount of charm and charisma.

I don't think we got either of those things in that trailer. Still, time will tell..

After this trailer, plus the reports of them bringing in an acting coach for Alden, I'm kinda wishing they'd gone with the lookalike. I don't think Harrison Ford's acting was all that great in the OT, so at least give me someone who looks the part.
Alden Ehrenreich is definitely in a no-win position here though, so it was always going to be a tough sell for audiences. Play it too close, and people will say you're impersonating. Stray too far, and people won't accept you playing the part.

That somehow looked worse than the initial teaser trailer.


In the initial teaser, that shot of the star destroyer in the whatever vortex looking thing was really cool, but the expanded scene of it was just silly and over the top.

The whole Fast and Furious section didn't help either.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on February 05, 2018, 08:40:34 AM
I generally liked what I saw, in the trailer.

But there is something that feels off from Ehrenreich's portrayal of Han in this trailer. He doesn't sound like Han at all. There are some vague similarities, which really makes me wonder where in the timeline this takes place? I can sort off buy him as a 18 year old Han, but any older than that and it start's to be on really shaky ground.

I don't envy Ehrenreich in the position that he's in. He is sure as hell going to get trashed by a certain corner of the fanbase.

But again, i liked what I saw! Shame Donald Glover didn't have any lines in this trailer..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 05, 2018, 08:52:30 AM
I liked what I saw, but trailers don't usually tell a whole lot about the quality of the film. As with others, I'll see this, but don't have high expectations.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on February 05, 2018, 08:55:16 AM
That almost looked like a parody, as if Seth McFarland or someone made a mock trailer of a movie no one would actually make.

Ehrenreich (I'm never going to learn how to spell that so it's going to be CTRL-C/V for me) seemed alright. Having someone do an impersonation is never going to work in a situation like this. DeNiro didn't do an impression of Brando in Godfather II. He incorporated a few mannerisms, but he it was largely his own role, and no one ever said "He doesn't look/act enough like Brando!"

The biggest weakness will probably be the story. Rogue One had a story to tell, regardless if you think it was told well. What's the story here?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on February 05, 2018, 09:20:10 AM
Ewan McGregor worked his ass off to come across as a legitimate young Obi-Wan - studying/practicing Sir Alec for months to get his tone, accent, inflections, mannerisms etc...  I know it's only a couple of minutes, but I get NONE of that here.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 05, 2018, 09:48:56 AM
I like the tone and grittiness of the trailer. Very similar to Rogue One. I have the same concerns about the actor portraying Han. I agree with whoever said that if this is 18-20 year old Han the experiences in this film may make him the character we see in Episode IV so I'm not expecting a 100% Ford impersonation. I have low expectations which mean I'll probably love it.  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on February 05, 2018, 10:48:45 AM
I was hoping to hear Jabba's laugh at the very end of that trailer as the screen goes black for a moment.. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 05, 2018, 11:55:28 AM
If Jabba's in it I hope he's a giant giant rubber slug with two dudes inside and not CGI.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 05, 2018, 11:57:45 AM
I really hope they don't try to cram too much into one movie. We don't need to learn how he met Chewie, won the Falcon, met Lando, and did the kessel run all in one film, but I think that's what we're going to get. Not that I necessarily wanted them to plan on a Solo trilogy right off the bat, either...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 05, 2018, 12:11:55 PM
I really hope they don't try to cram too much into one movie. We don't need to learn how he met Chewie, won the Falcon, met Lando, and did the kessel run all in one film, but I think that's what we're going to get. Not that I necessarily wanted them to plan on a Solo trilogy right off the bat, either...

All of that plus how he got his name.




Honestly if they ditched Chewie and Lando, redid the ship as the Outider, and changed his name to Dash Rendar, you’d have something.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 05, 2018, 01:04:00 PM
I really hope they don't try to cram too much into one movie. We don't need to learn how he met Chewie, won the Falcon, met Lando, and did the kessel run all in one film, but I think that's what we're going to get.

I would think that that's exactly what we're going to get.  But if you think about it, they should be able to include those four things in a movie without it feeling overpacked.  A couple of well-scripted scenes each would cover each of the first three, and the Kessel Run could be the big "action" sequence.  Throw in a couple of scenes with him smuggling and evading the Empire bad guys, and you've got a movie.  I'm saying that that they can do it, but I think it's possible, and those are the four things I'm pretty sure most fans would want to see. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 05, 2018, 01:19:03 PM
I think it would make for a better movie if they included all those things EXCEPT for the Kessel run, and just either alluded to it or left it dangling at the end, something like:  Final scene is Han has to smuggle something really important, and has an impossibly short time to do it or there will be bad consequences, and he is being warned that NOBODY could possibly do it, and he smugly says, "Never tell me the odds," and the movie just ends at that point, or something like that.  Yeah, fans would probably rage endlessly about "WE NEVER ACTUALLY GOT TO SEE HAN DO THE KESSEL RUN!"  But who cares?  It would be a better film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on February 05, 2018, 01:20:41 PM
If Jabba's in it I hope he's a giant giant rubber slug with two dudes inside and not CGI.
Agreed 100%
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on February 05, 2018, 06:06:37 PM
We know that Episode 9 is the final film in the Skywalker saga...

Funny. In 1983 we knew that Episode 6 was the final film in the Skywalker saga.

Not really.   George himself stated around the time of ESB that he had 3 trilogies in his head....9 movies altogether.  He just decided he was sick of doing it after RotJ.   Then he went back to the prequels for a giant payday, and then ultimately decided he just wasn't going to tell the final 3 stories.    Then, after he sold out, he did submit his original ideas to (not sure if it was Disney or JJ, but one of the two), but we're still not sure how much they used and how much they threw away.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on February 05, 2018, 11:19:29 PM
I was being a little flippant, but I am not sure how many people knew all of that about Lucas in 1983. I don't think I knew any of that in 1993.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on February 06, 2018, 05:33:37 AM
I was being a little flippant, but I am not sure how many people knew all of that about Lucas in 1983. I don't think I knew any of that in 1993.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 06, 2018, 06:59:39 AM
That's how I remember it, too.  The first Star Wars film was just Star Wars.  Then for some reason, it was "Episode IV -- A New Hope".  George explained that it's really the first of a trilogy, and that there will be nine "episodes" altogether, a trilogy of trilogies if you will.  Then after the prequel trilogies sucked, he said that there was only ever going to be six episodes.  I think I read at least one thing where he specifically denied ever saying that there would be nine, that it was always six.  The public is stupid and memory is fallible, but not everybody just forgot what you said before, George.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 06, 2018, 07:04:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UGV7WVB-bA
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 06, 2018, 07:14:32 AM
Nice find!  I've never seen that before, but it all fits.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on February 06, 2018, 01:32:45 PM
Every frame we’ve gotten of Donald Glover as Lando is the suavest space shit I ever seen!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 06, 2018, 01:36:58 PM
Every frame we’ve gotten of Donald Glover as Lando is the suavest space shit I ever seen!

I'm pretty sure he is the one aspect of this movie that no one is the least bit worried about.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on February 06, 2018, 02:02:19 PM
https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/02/06/game-of-thrones-showrunners-to-write-produce-star-wars-movies (https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/02/06/game-of-thrones-showrunners-to-write-produce-star-wars-movies)

Interesting.  As much as I love the GoT show and admire the work those two did on it, I do wonder how much of that credit should go to GRRM, since once GRRM left the show, most would agree the writing went downhill.  But who knows, if they are going to do a totally different series in the universe, maybe these two could make it really interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 06, 2018, 02:45:36 PM
^

I was just going to post the same story. This is another set of movies, separate from the new trilogy given to Rian Johnston.

I wonder if these movies will be more hard edged, aimed at an older audience maybe? That would be very interesting.

https://www.starwars.com/news/game-of-thrones-creators-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss-to-write-and-produce-a-new-series-of-star-wars-films
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on February 06, 2018, 03:20:53 PM
I'm always happy to watch new Star Wars movies..

But two different trilogies, possibly running in theaters roughly at the same time?? That's to much.

Star Wars will lose the "Event film" quality, if they start to pump out movies at the same rate as Marvel.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on February 06, 2018, 03:29:46 PM
I'm always happy to watch new Star Wars movies..

But two different trilogies, possibly running in theaters roughly at the same time?? That's to much.

Star Wars will lose the "Event film" quality, if they start to pump out movies at the same rate as Marvel.

It kind of feels like it already has after TLJ.  Maybe I am wrong since I kind of live in my own bubble, but I didn't really experience the hype and fan craziness that the previous movies had.  It's already now been three years in a row with a SW movie. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 06, 2018, 03:38:46 PM
I can imagine Rian Johnson's trilogy and this series will alternate release years or something. More than one Star Wars movie a year is pushing it for me. Though if they're good I won't care much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 06, 2018, 05:41:22 PM
I wonder if these movies will be more hard edged, aimed at an older audience maybe? That would be very interesting.

This. I love a Star Wars movie as the next guy but to keep it fresh and to keep from diluting the market I think in one of these iterations Kennedy has to give the green light to some gritty....dare I say R rated type Star Wars stories.

Release after Release of watered down stories for all may get old.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 06, 2018, 10:03:33 PM
I'm always happy to watch new Star Wars movies..

But two different trilogies, possibly running in theaters roughly at the same time?? That's to much.

Star Wars will lose the "Event film" quality, if they start to pump out movies at the same rate as Marvel.

It kind of feels like it already has after TLJ.  Maybe I am wrong since I kind of live in my own bubble, but I didn't really experience the hype and fan craziness that the previous movies had.  It's already now been three years in a row with a SW movie. 

Having TLJ and Han Solo only half a year apart is already wearing out the novelty for me. It will be interesting to see how Solo compares to Rogue One. I really doubt it will hit a billion like the other movies have.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: PowerSlave on February 06, 2018, 11:31:04 PM
I wonder if these movies will be more hard edged, aimed at an older audience maybe? That would be very interesting.

This. I love a Star Wars movie as the next guy but to keep it fresh and to keep from diluting the market I think in one of these iterations Kennedy has to give the green light to some gritty....dare I say R rated type Star Wars stories.

Release after Release of watered down stories for all may get old.

I don't think that Disney would allow that. I might be way off with this, but have they ever had an r-rated movie? I can't think of any, but I'm not a huge movie buff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on February 06, 2018, 11:40:57 PM
I wonder if these movies will be more hard edged, aimed at an older audience maybe? That would be very interesting.

This. I love a Star Wars movie as the next guy but to keep it fresh and to keep from diluting the market I think in one of these iterations Kennedy has to give the green light to some gritty....dare I say R rated type Star Wars stories.

Release after Release of watered down stories for all may get old.

I don't think that Disney would allow that. I might be way off with this, but have they ever had an r-rated movie? I can't think of any, but I'm not a huge movie buff.

Not under the Disney banner....but Disney has owned other studios that have. Touchstone probably being the most popular.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 07, 2018, 12:14:41 AM
I doubt that Disney would ever go that adult with a well known family franchise like Star Wars, even given this latest news. It will probably be a little bit darker than the main series, but still within their usual rating. They want to maximize their audience and profit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 07, 2018, 06:13:32 AM
No way does Disney allow an R rated Star Wars movie. Not anytime soon anyway. A gritty PG-13, sure. They're leaving too much possible money on the table if they went R.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on February 07, 2018, 06:29:06 AM
No brothel scene in a future Star Wars?   :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 07, 2018, 07:31:59 AM
I would assume that there wouldn't be two star wars movies per year. If there are going to be two new trilogies at the same time it would make sense that a new film is released every December and the trilogies alternate years. There would always be something to look forward too. I don't see any negatives around this. It will be interesting to see what the two new series are based around. I hope one is about the old republic or the rise of the Jedi/Sith and the other is something new. The question I have is that if one of these series is something brand new in the Star Wars universe what things from the existing films need to stay around to make it Star Wars?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 07, 2018, 11:07:31 AM
That's a good point. Does that fact that it's a space based sci-fi movie make it Star Wars, does there need to be Jedi or at least the mention of the force?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 07, 2018, 11:17:30 AM
Personally, I will be disappointed if at least one of these new trilogies don't focus on or heavily include Jedi/Sith and Force users. The 'force' is what makes Star Wars IMO....without it or the Jedi/Sith it's just another sci fi story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TioJorge on February 08, 2018, 11:43:40 AM
While I understand the sentiment, I completely disagree and I think that Rogue One kind of proved that it absolutely could make at least a few films work (and flourish, if Rogue is any indication) while using very little Force aspects and little to zero use of the Jedi/Sith.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2018, 11:51:46 AM
For as long as people have the mindset that a Star Wars movie needs lightsabres, the force, Skywalkers etc, we're going to keep getting the same old regurgitated shit.
I love that Rogue One limited a lot of those elements, so they remain special and rare when used, rather than the TLJ approach of "everybody's special and can use the force now"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2018, 12:02:20 PM
But if you take all that out, what makes it a Star Wars film? Just the location?  I'm not sure how I feel about it.  RO wasn't very good in my eyes, but it had nothing to do with a lesser amount of force/jedi.   They certainly could make a good movie in the universe without all that, but what's the point really?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2018, 12:08:40 PM
There's a lot more to Star Wars than just light swords and magic. There's an entire universe of other ideas to explore. There are only so many times you can see the same few ideas before it gets stale.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 08, 2018, 12:09:31 PM
While I understand the sentiment, I completely disagree and I think that Rogue One kind of proved that it absolutely could make at least a few films work (and flourish, if Rogue is any indication) while using very little Force aspects and little to zero use of the Jedi/Sith.

But arguable the best part of RO was the ending sequence with Vadar....using the Force and his light saber.

I'm not saying EVERY SW Film has to have Force users and Sabers. I think there's plenty of story to be told. My petition is for at least one of the two separate Trilogy's that Disney has announced....to have Force Users/light sabers etc involved in it. Otherwise, these are just sci fi space movies with the Star Wars name attached to it.



Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 08, 2018, 12:11:14 PM
There's a lot more to Star Wars than light swords and magic. There's an entire universe of other ideas to explore. There are only so many times you can see the same few ideas before it gets stale.

If Clone Wars is any indication though......they've merely scratched the surface on what types of 'force' powers and light saber battles are possible.

Like I said, I think there's plenty of room for both. I don't think you can eliminate the force/saber stuff though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 08, 2018, 12:21:44 PM
Honestly, I don't see what the issue is either way.  Just because the force and lightsabers are involved doesn't mean it's just rehashing the same old thing.  Not sure what your problem is with that, Blob, but people obviously enjoy the films.  If you don't, don't watch them.  Not sure where the hostility is coming from.

And on the flip side, if they want to do some standalone films in the SW universe that don't have anything to do with the force, that's cool too.  The "point" is that it is supposed to be an entire galaxy, so there is plenty of story to be told if they have some good ideas.  To use an example, thus far, Daredevil has had no crossover whatsoever that I am aware of with the Avengers-based Marvel Universe.  So what's the point of even telling that story and having it be Marvel?  The point is that it's a good story.  And it doesn't NEED to have the Avengers in it to be a good Marvel story. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on February 10, 2018, 03:29:48 AM
While I get that analogy, and mostly agree with it, I think the case could be made that it would be more like if Marvel did a movie/TV show without someone ”special” fighting crime as the main plot. It’s sort of what they do. Like if they did a season of Daredevil with only legal drama, I think people would feel weird about them taking away the very thing that they come to Marvel movies for.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 10, 2018, 10:30:32 AM
While I get that analogy, and mostly agree with it, I think the case could be made that it would be more like if Marvel did a movie/TV show without someone ”special” fighting crime as the main plot. It’s sort of what they do. Like if they did a season of Daredevil with only legal drama, I think people would feel weird about them taking away the very thing that they come to Marvel movies for.

That’s kind of my point in a nut shell. SW captivated imaginations with the idea of the Force and some cool light saber battles/scenes. To remove those aspects completely from future movies just turns those movies into cool sci fi movies.

I’m not saying it wouldn’t be cool to have separate stories unrelated to the Force/Jedi/with etc. certainly a huge universe to explore. But one of the upcoming trilogies HAS to be related to what captivated 98% of the audience in the first place.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on February 10, 2018, 10:34:08 AM
Not commenting on Star Wars or anything, but honestly if Daredevil had just been Matt and Foggy trying to start a legal practice I probably would have liked the show more. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 15, 2018, 10:57:44 AM
How Star Wars The Last Jedi Should Have Ended (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB8DUGpYQQ)

I love these.  This one even addresses a few things the critics and fanboys had trouble with, which is extra fun.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 15, 2018, 10:58:38 AM
How Star Wars The Last Jedi Should Have Ended (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB8DUGpYQQ)

I love these.  This one even addresses a few things the critics and fanboys had trouble with, which is extra fun.

The Ackbar stuff was hilarious.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on February 15, 2018, 02:12:38 PM
“Do you know what this is? ITS. A. TRAAAPPPP!!!”  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 15, 2018, 02:20:36 PM
The beginning is actually really spot on. The First Order had no issues blowing up entire god damn planets on a whim, yet they will casually have an Abbot and Costello act with an x-wing fighter pilot? No, they're blowing him up on the spot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on February 15, 2018, 02:54:44 PM
I agree with the entire video. Would have strongly preferred that it went that way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on February 15, 2018, 09:06:57 PM
Don't agree with everything, but yeah some of the stuff pretty decently addresses issues I had with the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 15, 2018, 11:37:04 PM
Don't agree with everything, but yeah some of the stuff pretty decently addresses issues I had with the movie.

You don't agree with Kylo on the toilet? Psht.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on February 16, 2018, 12:34:51 AM
It offends me greatly.  :censored
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 22, 2018, 08:19:04 AM
Honestly, I don't see what the issue is either way.  Just because the force and lightsabers are involved doesn't mean it's just rehashing the same old thing.  Not sure what your problem is with that, Blob, but people obviously enjoy the films.  If you don't, don't watch them.  Not sure where the hostility is coming from.

And on the flip side, if they want to do some standalone films in the SW universe that don't have anything to do with the force, that's cool too.  The "point" is that it is supposed to be an entire galaxy, so there is plenty of story to be told if they have some good ideas.  To use an example, thus far, Daredevil has had no crossover whatsoever that I am aware of with the Avengers-based Marvel Universe.  So what's the point of even telling that story and having it be Marvel?  The point is that it's a good story.  And it doesn't NEED to have the Avengers in it to be a good Marvel story. 

I think that Star Wars will always face an uphill battle when it comes to originality versus tradition.

Go too far in one direction and you lose the magic. For example, it sounded like the Han Solo movie was going to be a slapstick comedy in the Star Wars universe. I think that would have reduced Star Wars to merely a setting and missed the point a bit. Star Wars is way more than just a universe to do random stuff in. You need adventure, characters, a hint of seriousness, etc.

On the other hand, I also think that if you repeat yourself too much, things start to feel pointless. For example, while I enjoyed The Last Jedi, I also feel like we're right back to where we were during the original trilogy. It's the Rebels / Resistance versus the Empire / First Order for all the marbles. The more the same conflict happens, the less significant each trilogy seems, at least to me. That said, Episode IX could do something crazy and send us on a whole new course. I'm excited to see what happens.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 22, 2018, 09:25:34 AM
Anyone watch the new episodes of Rebels? Sad that there are only 4 episodes left but I'm excited to see how they conclude the series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 22, 2018, 09:43:00 AM
Anyone watch the new episodes of Rebels? Sad that there are only 4 episodes left but I'm excited to see how they conclude the series.

I'm anxiously awaiting Rebels to hit Netflix or another streaming service. By the time I and my kiddos got in to Clone Wars, Rebels had already been on for a couple seasons so we were behind. We'll just have to wait for the series to hit streaming.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 22, 2018, 09:50:59 AM
I still haven't finished Clone Wars.  Every time I start, I forget where I left off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on February 23, 2018, 01:08:59 AM
Surprise and impressed by the latest Rebels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on February 25, 2018, 01:26:52 PM
'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Novel Opens With a Line About Luke Skywalker's Wife

https://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/02/25/star-wars-the-last-jedi-novel-lukes-wife/

Wut... 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 25, 2018, 10:33:19 PM
Hm, interesting. Since this isn't in the movie, I bet JJ will just ignore it, since they don't have any overarching plan.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 26, 2018, 09:47:19 AM
so NOW we know the real reason as to why Luke marooned himself on an island, not to be found. He was F'n married and hiding from his nag of a wife.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 26, 2018, 09:47:54 AM
so NOW we know the real reason as to why Luke marooned himself on an island, not to be found. He was F'n married and hiding from his nag of a wife.

Maybe that was his wife on the beach with the milk?

MIND BLOWN!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on February 26, 2018, 10:08:36 AM
so NOW we know the real reason as to why Luke marooned himself on an island, not to be found. He was F'n married and hiding from his nag of a wife.

Maybe that was his wife on the beach with the milk?

MIND BLOWN!

And the Porg's are their offspring?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 26, 2018, 10:10:08 AM
so NOW we know the real reason as to why Luke marooned himself on an island, not to be found. He was F'n married and hiding from his nag of a wife.

Maybe that was his wife on the beach with the milk?

MIND BLOWN!

And the Porg's are their offspring?

Is that even in question?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on February 27, 2018, 11:45:07 AM
Did anybody catch the two latest Rebels episodes?

SPOILERS!!

In the episode, Ezra goes into a Jedi temple and ends up in a "world between worlds". Basically it is a time travel conduit of the "cosmic force" or whatever. And he uses the conduit to save Ahsoka from her duel against Vader.

It was weird. Not sure how I feel about time travel being possible in Star Wars..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 28, 2018, 12:24:20 PM
Did anybody catch the two latest Rebels episodes?

SPOILERS!!

In the episode, Ezra goes into a Jedi temple and ends up in a "world between worlds". Basically it is a time travel conduit of the "cosmic force" or whatever. And he uses the conduit to save Ahsoka from her duel against Vader.

It was weird. Not sure how I feel about time travel being possible in Star Wars..

Just watched last night. I think the idea is interesting and opens a ton of possible scenarios going forward. I'm cool with it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 01, 2018, 11:39:56 PM
I’m also not sure what to think. ”Whoever controls it, controls the universe”, is almost so big it becomes silly. Gaining control of this temple should have been the main focus of every single movie and TV show if that was the case. Also, what stops the Emperor from just getting in there? The episode clearly demonstrated that he knew how to do it.

It was a cool inclusion, but I think it was a bit overly ambitions and didn’t make much sense. Glad Ashoka is back, though.

I also freaked out a bit when I heard Rey’s voice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on March 07, 2018, 03:49:47 AM
That was a nice wrap up to Rebels, and it actually opened up to MORE Star Wars stories to be explored in other mediuns, maybe a movie!

Captain Rex fighting with the Rebel alliance in the OT timeline is HUGE!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on March 07, 2018, 04:35:26 AM
Finale episode was solid. I'm not sure what to think of Ahsoka and Ezra? surviving the Original Trilogy era. "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi you will be". Beside Luke, there is at least one and possibly two other surviving Jedi. That seems like a retcon to me.

And the finale leaves little doubt in my mind, that the next animated series takes place between RoTJ and TFA. Ahsoka and Sabine are searching for Ezra. We get to see the rise and fall of Luke's academy, and the origins of the First Order.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 07, 2018, 05:45:20 AM
I think Yoda just didn’t know about the others. He’s powerful, but he’s not all-knowing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 07, 2018, 07:19:44 AM
Finale episode was solid. I'm not sure what to think of Ahsoka and Ezra? surviving the Original Trilogy era. "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi you will be". Beside Luke, there is at least one and possibly two other surviving Jedi. That seems like a retcon to me.

And the finale leaves little doubt in my mind, that the next animated series takes place between RoTJ and TFA. Ahsoka and Sabine are searching for Ezra. We get to see the rise and fall of Luke's academy, and the origins of the First Order.

I would be down for that show. Sabine was easily my favorite character from Rebels and Ahsoka is an amazing character as well.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 07, 2018, 08:28:28 AM
Ahsoka is an amazing character as well.

Disney HAS to find a way to 'educate' the average Star Wars fan who doesn't know her character to where they can make a stand alone movie centered around her. I've yet to watch Rebels.....but have seen clips on youtube of her appearances.....but I plan to watch the series. But, I'm sure there's plenty of things they could do with her story that haven't been explored.

Has anyone read the book that was written about her? I've thought about getting it and reading it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 08:30:20 AM
I don't think anyone "needs" to be educated about a cartoon character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 07, 2018, 08:36:09 AM
I don't think anyone "needs" to be educated about a cartoon character.

That.
And there's little Disney can do to make a character from a cartoon spinoff recognizable/bankable enough for a standalone movie. Too niche for the average SW fan (like me), and there are many more obvious side movies worth making first.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on March 07, 2018, 08:38:08 AM
Can we finally get a 3 hour spin off movie about how the Sarlack digests people for 1000 years?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 07, 2018, 08:55:40 AM
I don't think anyone "needs" to be educated about a cartoon character.

And there's little Disney can do to make a character from a cartoon spinoff recognizable/bankable enough for a standalone movie. Too niche for the average SW fan (like me), and there are many more obvious side movies worth making first.

I think that character would be incredible to explore. Far more enjoyable than say a Boba Fett or other ancillary character that was 'cool' merely because of his costume. If done correctly they could make a solid 2 plus hour movie about Ahsoka where you wouldn't need to be 'educated' about who she is to still enjoy the movie and leave loving her character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 09:13:08 AM
Yes, she probably is a much "better" or more compelling character than, say, Boba Fett.  But that misses the point.  There isn't likely a big enough market for her character to justify a movie, nor is there likely to be even if she were marketed to the general public.  Disney has a pretty careful plan for Star Wars, and they aren't going to screw it up by making something that wouldn't have a market.  The market is getting somewhat "saturated" by having a film every year or so, and I would expect that to continue through about 2025 or so.  By then, I think people will be tired of Star Wars, unless the franchise takes on a new direction in the next trilogy that people find REALLY compelling.  But otherwise, they will make a TON of money for the next 6-8 years, and then likely let it die down for awhile before doing anything new.  And in terms of marketing strategy, they're golden by doing that.  Again, they will have made a ton from the films themselves.  They will also have had Star Wars lands up and running for awhile in their parks.  The combination will have a whole new generation of Star Wars fans locked in and loving the franchise, which will sell merchandise pretty steadily for at least another decade beyond that.  So, they don't need to take a risk on a character like Ahsoka for a film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 07, 2018, 09:59:44 AM
Yes, she probably is a much "better" or more compelling character than, say, Boba Fett.  But that misses the point.  There isn't likely a big enough market for her character to justify a movie, nor is there likely to be even if she were marketed to the general public.  Disney has a pretty careful plan for Star Wars, and they aren't going to screw it up by making something that wouldn't have a market.  The market is getting somewhat "saturated" by having a film every year or so, and I would expect that to continue through about 2025 or so.  By then, I think people will be tired of Star Wars, unless the franchise takes on a new direction in the next trilogy that people find REALLY compelling.  But otherwise, they will make a TON of money for the next 6-8 years, and then likely let it die down for awhile before doing anything new.  And in terms of marketing strategy, they're golden by doing that.  Again, they will have made a ton from the films themselves.  They will also have had Star Wars lands up and running for awhile in their parks.  The combination will have a whole new generation of Star Wars fans locked in and loving the franchise, which will sell merchandise pretty steadily for at least another decade beyond that.  So, they don't need to take a risk on a character like Ahsoka for a film.

I completely agree with what you're saying and understand that her character is a risk. It's just a bummer to think about being that it's such a cool character. Wonder if they'd consider another animated series based around her 'lost' years or something? Seems like such a waste to NOT do something with her.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 07, 2018, 10:01:50 AM
But otherwise, they will make a TON of money for the next 6-8 years, and then likely let it die down for awhile before doing anything new. 

do you think they'd ever re-boot the original story.....start from the beginning and redo Episodes 1 thru 6? Say in, fifteen....twenty years?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on March 07, 2018, 10:06:42 AM
I hope they don't do that. They're much better off starting a whole new saga in the Star Wars universe than redoing the original one. But, once George Lucas is dead and gone and the money and ideas are drying up a bit for new Star Wars films, it's not outside the realm of possibility that they would do a complete reboot.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 10:09:37 AM
She's a cool character.  But she has gotten great character treatment in The Clone Wars.  I'm not sure we really "need" more in any format.  I'm not against it.  I'm just saying I don't see the need.

Going back to Boba Fett, that really is an interesting case.  There is no real reason he should have been so popular, other than George decreed it.  I remember the hype way back even before Empire was released, and he was a limited edition action figure that you could ONLY get by mailing in so many proofs of purchase from other action figures.  Nobody knew ANYTHING about the character at that point.  But he was suddenly mysterious and cool just because he was advertised as being mysterious and cool.  Then Empire came out sometime later, and we were prepared for him to be mysterious and cool.  And since he didn't say or do anything to detract from that, he was still mysterious and cool.  Then ROTJ, where there really isn't any need for him to appear, but he is there.  ...and doesn't really do anything other than fail to recognize Lando, fail to shoot any good guys despite that Luke is the only one with a weapon, and then fall into a sarlaac pit. 

As far as rebooting, hard to say.  I really don't see the need or benefit.  It seems like there is FAR more potential risk than reward.  But that has never stopped studios in the past, so...  :dunno:  But what they really SHOULD do is a Bluray release of the original trilogy in their original versions, with only effects cleanups and no additional/changed scenes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 07, 2018, 10:17:08 AM
There is a new interview with Andy Serkis saying that Snoke's background was intentionally kept vague to keep the option open of doing a prequel. I'm going to assume that one of the new series is going to be at least 100 years before episode 1 and the other series will be after Episode 9. The new show(s) will be between episode 6 and 7.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 10:19:05 AM
See, now THAT is something there is definitely a market for.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 07, 2018, 10:34:45 AM
I maintain the Snoke character was vague due to lazy writing.

But what they really SHOULD do is a Bluray release of the original trilogy in their original versions, with only effects cleanups and no additional/changed scenes.

This is problematic because one person's "effects cleanups" are another person's unnecessary changes. You might want Luke's Landspeeder vaseline effect fixed up, someone else might not. If you are going to ask for the "Original Trilogy" doesn't it need to be the original theatrical prints (if they even still exist)?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on March 07, 2018, 10:57:13 AM
[quote author=bosk1 link=topic=51448.msg2412898#msg2412898 date=1520442577  But what they really SHOULD do is a Bluray release of the original trilogy in their original versions, with only effects cleanups and no additional/changed scenes.
[/quote]
THIS THIS THIS!  I think that's what every SW purist wants, including myself. I have no doubt there would be a huge market for that. The revamped versions are disastrous imo, especially ROTJ.  The originals need to be released on modern digital format.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 11:13:00 AM
I maintain the Snoke character was vague due to lazy writing.

But what they really SHOULD do is a Bluray release of the original trilogy in their original versions, with only effects cleanups and no additional/changed scenes.

This is problematic because one person's "effects cleanups" are another person's unnecessary changes. You might want Luke's Landspeeder vaseline effect fixed up, someone else might not. If you are going to ask for the "Original Trilogy" doesn't it need to be the original theatrical prints (if they even still exist)?

I am almost positive I heard that they exist.  And I would be fine with them being released as-is.  The first reissue that Lucas did is more in line with what I am talking about.  Cleaning up effects, but not altering scenes.  So, yeah, fixing the landspeeder effect, cleaning up the lightsabers in IV, and so on--yes.  Making Greedo shoot first, adding characters to scenes for a big "dance number," and the like--no.  Yeah, there's some subjectivity there, but you are less likely to have a significant portion of the fan base upset with a release like that than ones altering the actual content of scenes.  The one thing I would subjectively miss from limiting it that way is the augmenting of a few of the scenes in ANH to just make the scope of them "bigger" (Mos Eisley, more fighters in the battle of Yavin), but that's okay.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 07, 2018, 01:25:46 PM
I am not trying to argue. I just feel that if you do an "original trilogy" release, you have to 1) identify what you mean by "original" and 2) accept that whatever you do, you are only going to please a percentage of your market, and minimize those you are going to annoy.

I was a big mark for the "Special Editions" in 1997(?). I loved - almost - every minute of them. Even the Jedi Rocks bit didn't bother me. I was born in 76 so old enough to see Empire and Jedi in the theater, not quite old enough to remember it, but at the right age where everything Star Wars was cool, the action figures, the crappy Atari 2600 games..... So I did enjoy seeing SW on the big screen, even if it wasn't in their original form.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on March 07, 2018, 05:07:44 PM
Return Of The Jedi got ruined by the altered scenes. Especially in Jabba's palace, and the ending of the movie..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on March 07, 2018, 05:10:58 PM
I wish there was a DIY version.

Like, I'd keep all of the updated effects. I'd even keep the added x-wings and so forth. It doesn't negatively influence anything, just adds a bit more that they couldn't back then.

But I'd ditch a ton of them. The random changing of sounds or dialogue, the added dance scene, etc. Stuff that actually detracts from the movie.

Sadly that's not an option. It's either terrible additions, or terrible original effects etc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 07, 2018, 05:27:41 PM
I actually liked the changes to the end of Jedi, and still do in some ways. The added visuals make it seem that the Rebellion had a greater purposes, it was bigger that Luke, Han, and Leia. The music change I still to this day don't have a definitive opinion.

A DIY option would actually be the awesomest thing ever. Until Youtube was flooded with people uploading theirs and proclaiming their version to be the best ever.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on March 07, 2018, 05:36:27 PM
I really like the change to Empire where after Vader tells Luke that he is his father, Luke jumps and doesn’t scream. I  feel like it added an emotional weight with nothing coming from Luke...as if he gave up and fully intended to commit suicide... I dunno, but that’s a change I do really like. What is everyone’s thoughts on that particular moment?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 07, 2018, 09:02:39 PM
Wasn't aware that there was a scream at one point. I agree that the moment seems to be more powerful without it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 07, 2018, 09:07:30 PM
I honestly couldn't remember if the scream was original or added on. I was always bothered by how silly he looked ending up sliding in to that shaft.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on March 08, 2018, 02:13:42 AM
In the original theatrical release, he didn't scream

For the 97 special edition, the scream was added

Any version after that, it was removed.

I grew up with the scream, so its natural to me, but I think its better without it. As far as empire goes and its changes I am not down with hearing Mr. New Zealand when Boba fett speaks. I much prefer the original actors voice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 08, 2018, 03:53:45 AM
Just purely for the sake of internal consistency I like the changed Boba Fett voice. I don’t really have a preference when it comes to the sound itself.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on March 08, 2018, 12:11:54 PM
Just purely for the sake of internal consistency I like the changed Boba Fett voice. I don’t really have a preference when it comes to the sound itself.

Same thing with the change in the Emperor's hologram.  The original is kinda bad actually.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on March 08, 2018, 12:16:52 PM
Just purely for the sake of internal consistency I like the changed Boba Fett voice. I don’t really have a preference when it comes to the sound itself.

Same thing with the change in the Emperor's hologram.  The original is kinda bad actually.

Exactly. It's a shame that if we want the new hologram and updated light saber effects, we also need a big song and dance number that no one likes. I mean, maybe Staler loves it, I dunno.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on March 08, 2018, 01:05:41 PM
Anyone see the news today about Jon Favoreu (sp?) writing and producing a SW series?

I’m assuming they mean a TV series...

Very interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 08, 2018, 01:21:02 PM
Anyone see the news today about Jon Favoreu (sp?) writing and producing a SW series?

I’m assuming they mean a TV series...

Very interesting.

Yeah. I saw that. Not a lot of detail in it though....just that he was going to be involved in a SW series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on March 09, 2018, 05:29:19 AM
And that it's gonna be exclusive to Disney's streaming service.  Guess I'll never (legally) see it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 09, 2018, 05:47:27 AM
Oh, they're pulling that shit too? I guess that's the new trend.

Won't stop me checking it out, but obviously they're not getting a cent out of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 09, 2018, 07:02:35 AM
Yeah because god forbid we actually pay for content that we want to enjoy.  ::)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 09, 2018, 07:56:17 AM
More like god forbid we pay full price for 20 different services when what we really want access to is only an outrageous minority of their actual content.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on March 09, 2018, 09:07:59 AM
Pay for one month, binge on everything you want to see, then cancel. Not that big of a deal.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 13, 2018, 12:12:13 PM
Pay for one month, binge on everything you want to see, then cancel. Not that big of a deal.

Yup, this is my strategy with HBO Now once a year when Game of Thrones comes out. I wait until most of the episodes are available, then pay $15 for a month of streaming.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 17, 2018, 04:33:00 PM
So.... I finally saw The Last Jedi. I liked it!

I've read online, not in detail of course, about controversies on Luke Skywalker. What exactly was wrong with him? the choice to have made him run away from it all was already made in the first movie. The reasons are belieavable - shame for not being able to help his sister's son and for having pondered to kill him. It's only obvious that he's reluctant to help Rey, and in the end he still trains her. Then shows up like a total badass to buy time to the resistance (the dusting off from this shoulder and "Every word you said was wrong" are kickass moments) and dies peacefully at "home". What was so horribly wrong about this?

For the rest of the movie, they still riffed a bit here and there from the original trilogy. Snoke was good but we've already seen a disfigured ruler being a master of manipulation. At least the "kill the master not for good but to take his place" twist was nice.

Another thing they kinda took from Empire Strikes Back is the confusing timeline. The chase of the rebels seemed pretty straightforward to me, in the time it took the First Order to follow them through lightspeed and fire at them while they were on low fuel Finn went to the casino and Rey took forever to convince Luke to train him?

Oh, and I also assume we're supposed to absolutely and totally not believe at all in any kind of way that Rey's parents were nobodies, am I right?

btw, I teared up at the end with the dedication to "Our princess Carrie Fisher"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on March 17, 2018, 04:36:48 PM
So.... I finally saw The Last Jedi. I liked it!

I've read online, not in detail of course, about controversies on Luke Skywalker. What exactly was wrong with him? the choice to have made him run away from it all was already made in the first movie. The reasons are belieavable - shame for not being able to help his sister's son and for having pondered to kill him. It's only obvious that he's reluctant to help Rey, and in the end he still trains her. Then shows up like a total badass to buy time to the resistance (the dusting off from this shoulder and "Every word you said was wrong" are kickass moments) and dies peacefully at "home". What was so horribly wrong about this?

For the rest of the movie, they still riffed a bit here and there from the original trilogy. Snoke was good but we've already seen a disfigured ruler being a master of manipulation. At least the "kill the master not for good but to take his place" twist was nice.

Another thing they kinda took from Empire Strikes Back is the confusing timeline. The chase of the rebels seemed pretty straightforward to me, in the time it took the First Order to follow them through lightspeed and fire at them while they were on low fuel Finn went to the casino and Rey took forever to convince Luke to train him?

Oh, and I also assume we're supposed to absolutely and totally not believe at all in any kind of way that Rey's parents were nobodies, am I right?

btw, I teared up at the end with the dedication to "Our princess Carrie Fisher"

I'm always amazed when someone is literally point for point with me on all of this.   The Last Jedi is actually REALLY good, and I just don't get the hate for it AT ALL.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on March 18, 2018, 01:44:00 AM
The argument that Luke wouldn't have run away and hid like that because he's a jedi are hilarious, because it's exactly what Yoda and Obi-Wan did in the original films.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on March 18, 2018, 04:26:28 AM
So.... I finally saw The Last Jedi. I liked it!

I've read online, not in detail of course, about controversies on Luke Skywalker. What exactly was wrong with him? the choice to have made him run away from it all was already made in the first movie. The reasons are belieavable - shame for not being able to help his sister's son and for having pondered to kill him. It's only obvious that he's reluctant to help Rey, and in the end he still trains her. Then shows up like a total badass to buy time to the resistance (the dusting off from this shoulder and "Every word you said was wrong" are kickass moments) and dies peacefully at "home". What was so horribly wrong about this?

For the rest of the movie, they still riffed a bit here and there from the original trilogy. Snoke was good but we've already seen a disfigured ruler being a master of manipulation. At least the "kill the master not for good but to take his place" twist was nice.

Another thing they kinda took from Empire Strikes Back is the confusing timeline. The chase of the rebels seemed pretty straightforward to me, in the time it took the First Order to follow them through lightspeed and fire at them while they were on low fuel Finn went to the casino and Rey took forever to convince Luke to train him?

Oh, and I also assume we're supposed to absolutely and totally not believe at all in any kind of way that Rey's parents were nobodies, am I right?

btw, I teared up at the end with the dedication to "Our princess Carrie Fisher"

I'm always amazed when someone is literally point for point with me on all of this.   The Last Jedi is actually REALLY good, and I just don't get the hate for it AT ALL.

I still believe that Rey is just a random orphan girl. Rian Johnson commented about this in an interview, saying something like: "Ren truly believes that she is just a nobody, but that isn't necessarily the whole truth". I'm paraphrasing, but I think that there is still some wiggle room in her origins, for JJ to play with.

Can't wait to get TLJ on blu ray! The making of documentary looks really interesting.

The argument that Luke wouldn't have run away and hid like that because he's a jedi are hilarious, because it's exactly what Yoda and Obi-Wan did in the original films.

The circumstances between Obi-Wan's and Luke's exile are eerily similar. Obi-Wan was directly responsible in the tragedy of Vader. And Luke is directly responsible for making Ren who he is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 18, 2018, 05:18:19 AM
The thought dawned on me right now, it could be a clever twist: maybe Kylo Ren was technically right in defining her parents as "nobodies", but maybe they were nobodies in the same sense that Yoda was an annoying goblin fooling around on Dagobah when Luke first met him.

Maybe Kylo Ren didn't see anything special about the parents, but they are somehow very important instead. Ok, Rey is one of the many force sensitive people in the universe, but to be so good and be drawn to Luke's saber there has to be something else more, right?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 19, 2018, 09:10:30 AM
Random Thought:

Could we see a Force Ghost Battle between Luke and Snoke in the next movie? I have little doubt that Luke will appear as a Force Ghost....he almost has to show up for Rey in at least a scene ala how Obi Won did for Luke. But, with Yoda showing that Force Ghost's can still manipulate the physical world.....maybe Luke and Snoke have a spiritual brawl?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on March 19, 2018, 10:16:46 AM
So.... I finally saw The Last Jedi. I liked it!

I've read online, not in detail of course, about controversies on Luke Skywalker. What exactly was wrong with him? the choice to have made him run away from it all was already made in the first movie. The reasons are belieavable - shame for not being able to help his sister's son and for having pondered to kill him. It's only obvious that he's reluctant to help Rey, and in the end he still trains her. Then shows up like a total badass to buy time to the resistance (the dusting off from this shoulder and "Every word you said was wrong" are kickass moments) and dies peacefully at "home". What was so horribly wrong about this?

For the rest of the movie, they still riffed a bit here and there from the original trilogy. Snoke was good but we've already seen a disfigured ruler being a master of manipulation. At least the "kill the master not for good but to take his place" twist was nice.

Another thing they kinda took from Empire Strikes Back is the confusing timeline. The chase of the rebels seemed pretty straightforward to me, in the time it took the First Order to follow them through lightspeed and fire at them while they were on low fuel Finn went to the casino and Rey took forever to convince Luke to train him?

Oh, and I also assume we're supposed to absolutely and totally not believe at all in any kind of way that Rey's parents were nobodies, am I right?

btw, I teared up at the end with the dedication to "Our princess Carrie Fisher"

I'm always amazed when someone is literally point for point with me on all of this.   The Last Jedi is actually REALLY good, and I just don't get the hate for it AT ALL.

Count me in as well.  I think you and I briefly discussed this on Facebook:  this is the problem when people decide ahead of time what a movie should be like or how a character should develop.  Judging a movie based on preconceptions is just silly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 19, 2018, 10:52:25 AM
So.... I finally saw The Last Jedi. I liked it!

I've read online, not in detail of course, about controversies on Luke Skywalker. What exactly was wrong with him? the choice to have made him run away from it all was already made in the first movie. The reasons are belieavable - shame for not being able to help his sister's son and for having pondered to kill him. It's only obvious that he's reluctant to help Rey, and in the end he still trains her. Then shows up like a total badass to buy time to the resistance (the dusting off from this shoulder and "Every word you said was wrong" are kickass moments) and dies peacefully at "home". What was so horribly wrong about this?

For the rest of the movie, they still riffed a bit here and there from the original trilogy. Snoke was good but we've already seen a disfigured ruler being a master of manipulation. At least the "kill the master not for good but to take his place" twist was nice.

Another thing they kinda took from Empire Strikes Back is the confusing timeline. The chase of the rebels seemed pretty straightforward to me, in the time it took the First Order to follow them through lightspeed and fire at them while they were on low fuel Finn went to the casino and Rey took forever to convince Luke to train him?

Oh, and I also assume we're supposed to absolutely and totally not believe at all in any kind of way that Rey's parents were nobodies, am I right?

btw, I teared up at the end with the dedication to "Our princess Carrie Fisher"

I'm always amazed when someone is literally point for point with me on all of this.   The Last Jedi is actually REALLY good, and I just don't get the hate for it AT ALL.

Count me in as well.  I think you and I briefly discussed this on Facebook:  this is the problem when people decide ahead of time what a movie should be like or how a character should develop.  Judging a movie based on preconceptions is just silly.

Yeah. I've posted here when the movie first came out that my first viewing of TLJ I was underwhelmed....and it was largely due to the fact that the movie didn't fit in line with what I THOUGHT it should have. After I worked through that 'disappointment' I went back and watched it again and completely loved the movie. IMO it was really well done (outside of Mary Poppins Leia...hated that scene)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 19, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
Count me in as well.  I think you and I briefly discussed this on Facebook:  this is the problem when people decide ahead of time what a movie should be like or how a character should develop.  Judging a movie based on preconceptions is just silly.

I'm not actually sure that's the problem. I mean, I don't feel like being surprised or movies taking them in directions they don't expect is necessarily something people generally dislike. But some movies do it better than others.

Of three big curve balls in this movie (1. Snoke's death 2. Luke's uninvolvment 3. Rey's parents), I liked two and disliked one. I don't think judging it on preconcieved notions are as big a problem as people who loved the movie want to make it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on March 19, 2018, 11:03:18 AM
Count me in as well.  I think you and I briefly discussed this on Facebook:  this is the problem when people decide ahead of time what a movie should be like or how a character should develop.  Judging a movie based on preconceptions is just silly.

I'm not actually sure that's the problem. I mean, I don't feel like being surprised or movies taking them in directions they don't expect is necessarily something people generally dislike. But some movies do it better than others.

Of three big curve balls in this movie (1. Snoke's death 2. Luke's uninvolvment 3. Rey's parents), I liked two and disliked one. I don't think judging it on preconcieved notions are as big a problem as people who loved the movie want to make it.

You may be right that it's not the problem, but it sure seems like it based on what I've read (which admittedly is only a small handful of articles and social media comments).

Taking the three things you mentioned, why would anyone be disappointed with Snoke dying unless that person had built up in his/her head what would happen with Snoke?  It's not like he was an important character in TFA.  Same with Rey's parents.  Who cares, unless someone built up in his/her head what would happen with that plotline?  Moreover, even one was disappointed about her parents being "nobodies," who says Ren was telling the truth or that he wasn't merely stating a personal opinion?  The only complaint that I see as having any potential legitimacy is a complaint that how Luke behaved in TLJ was inconsistent with his character.  I don't happen to agree with that point of view, but it's at least a legitimate complaint not founded in preconceived notions.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 19, 2018, 11:57:29 AM
Preconceived notions have little to do with the dislike of TLJ that I've seen.

Sure, it swerved from preconceived notions in a few obvious ways, but the problem wasn't that it subverted expectations, it's that it did so in a way that didn't actually benefit the film at all, on the contrary it largely detracted mostly for the sake of trying to be different. Unexpected doesn't equate to good, especially when it's at the expense of a logical payoff to a setup. It still bothers me that it seemingly went out of its way to piss away every single setup from TFA. I wouldn't have cared where those plots went, as long as they went somewhere. Instead they were like "haha nope, fuck that" every single time, and little nothing of value in its place. It became predictably unpredictable.

But worst of all for me was the cringey sitcom humour that undermined the importance and emotional weight of the first 2/3 of the film. I dreaded every single scene inevitably ending with a dumb one liner that would just crap all over it. Yes, Star Wars has always had a good humour element that is an important part of the formula, but the style in this film broke the fourth wall for me and took me right out of the film literally from scene 1.

Overall, there's the lack of continuing on from TFA effectively, a very weak and uncompelling story in its own right, and doing a poor job of setting up something for the next movie that I care about. This movie has highlighted the problem with Disney's approach to the franchise, with no grand plan in advance for the trilogy.  TLJ has such an inconsistency with the franchise, in tone, character, plot, and world.

I know a film is bad when it actually makes me glad that JJ is taking over again. :lol That's not something I'd ever think I'd say after his treatment of Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2018, 12:25:34 PM
Preconceived notions have little to do with the dislike of TLJ that I've seen. 

Then, respectfully, you aren't really in tune with the general consensus of those who complain about it, because that is exactly what most of the public criticism has been.  And that's fine.  Your own personal criticism doesn't have to follow the masses.  But if that's the case, you can't really claim to speak for the masses either. 

It still bothers me that it seemingly went out of its way to piss away every single setup from TFA.

No, it doesn't really do that at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 19, 2018, 12:44:48 PM
Well, if the setup from TFA was "Luke ran away to nowhere and doesn't want to be found", it could have hardly followed with "Ok, I'll follow you straight away, unknown girl who brought me my lightsaber".

And about the growth of Kylo Ren to the Dark Side... he (almost) accomplished what Darth Vader himself set out to do. "Join me and we'll rule the galaxy as father and son". Darth Vader would have killed the Emperor with Luke at his side. Kylo Ren did kill his master, if Rey had joined him, he would have surpassed Vader's desires.

And I suspect that Rey's parents are "nobodies" in the same way that Yoda is an annoying goblin fooling around on Dagobah when we first met him. Maybe Kylo Ren was even sincere but he didn't realize the importance of those "nobodies" whose daughter is absurdingly skilled in the Force and drawn to Luke's saber.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2018, 01:10:32 PM
And I suspect that Rey's parents are "nobodies" in the same way that Yoda is an annoying goblin fooling around on Dagobah when we first met him. Maybe Kylo Ren was even sincere but he didn't realize the importance of those "nobodies" whose daughter is absurdingly skilled in the Force and drawn to Luke's saber.

Although there are a lot of reasons why part of me feels like her parents really should turn out to be people of some "significance," I think I would prefer if they let Kylo Ren's statement persist at face value.  It just feels more emotionally satisfying that the major players that are strong in the force have no direct connections to the major past heroes and that truly anyone can be a hero.  That was a pretty important theme, and having Rey be, say, a Skywalker or Kenobi seems to subvert that.  And also, having her parents be nobodies would seem to be consistent with the studio's statements about the series breaking from the past going forward.  So I really do think Kylo Ren was right.  But who knows?  They've done a good job with the series so far, so I'm sure whatever they do going forward will continue to be as good. 

That said, I do find it hard to imagine the franchise keeping me interested once this trilogy is complete.  But who knows?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: T-ski on March 19, 2018, 03:27:48 PM
Preconceived notions have little to do with the dislike of TLJ that I've seen.

Sure, it swerved from preconceived notions in a few obvious ways, but the problem wasn't that it subverted expectations, it's that it did so in a way that didn't actually benefit the film at all, on the contrary it largely detracted mostly for the sake of trying to be different. Unexpected doesn't equate to good, especially when it's at the expense of a logical payoff to a setup. It still bothers me that it seemingly went out of its way to piss away every single setup from TFA. I wouldn't have cared where those plots went, as long as they went somewhere. Instead they were like "haha nope, fuck that" every single time, and little nothing of value in its place. It became predictably unpredictable.

But worst of all for me was the cringey sitcom humour that undermined the importance and emotional weight of the first 2/3 of the film. I dreaded every single scene inevitably ending with a dumb one liner that would just crap all over it. Yes, Star Wars has always had a good humour element that is an important part of the formula, but the style in this film broke the fourth wall for me and took me right out of the film literally from scene 1.

Overall, there's the lack of continuing on from TFA effectively, a very weak and uncompelling story in its own right, and doing a poor job of setting up something for the next movie that I care about. This movie has highlighted the problem with Disney's approach to the franchise, with no grand plan in advance for the trilogy.  TLJ has such an inconsistency with the franchise, in tone, character, plot, and world.

I know a film is bad when it actually makes me glad that JJ is taking over again. :lol That's not something I'd ever think I'd say after his treatment of Star Trek.

this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on March 19, 2018, 05:31:08 PM
Preconceived notions have little to do with the dislike of TLJ that I've seen.

Sure, it swerved from preconceived notions in a few obvious ways, but the problem wasn't that it subverted expectations, it's that it did so in a way that didn't actually benefit the film at all, on the contrary it largely detracted mostly for the sake of trying to be different. Unexpected doesn't equate to good, especially when it's at the expense of a logical payoff to a setup. It still bothers me that it seemingly went out of its way to piss away every single setup from TFA. I wouldn't have cared where those plots went, as long as they went somewhere. Instead they were like "haha nope, fuck that" every single time, and little nothing of value in its place. It became predictably unpredictable.

But worst of all for me was the cringey sitcom humour that undermined the importance and emotional weight of the first 2/3 of the film. I dreaded every single scene inevitably ending with a dumb one liner that would just crap all over it. Yes, Star Wars has always had a good humour element that is an important part of the formula, but the style in this film broke the fourth wall for me and took me right out of the film literally from scene 1.

Overall, there's the lack of continuing on from TFA effectively, a very weak and uncompelling story in its own right, and doing a poor job of setting up something for the next movie that I care about. This movie has highlighted the problem with Disney's approach to the franchise, with no grand plan in advance for the trilogy.  TLJ has such an inconsistency with the franchise, in tone, character, plot, and world.

I know a film is bad when it actually makes me glad that JJ is taking over again. :lol That's not something I'd ever think I'd say after his treatment of Star Trek.

this.

Double this.   Very well said Blob and I agree 100%
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 19, 2018, 10:48:48 PM
Triple that.

The attempts at humour and Canto Bight are this movie’s biggest immediate flaws.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 20, 2018, 03:39:52 AM
I've been staying away from TLJ discussion, as I know others here enjoyed it, but I really agree with Blob on this one. The movie has massively dented any enthusiasm I had for Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 20, 2018, 03:53:50 AM
I seem to be relatively alone in the middle here. There are things about this movie that I thought were fantastic, but also decisions they made that are really really questionable and that hurt the movie tremendously for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 20, 2018, 06:15:47 AM
I seem to be relatively alone in the middle here. There are things about this movie that I thought were fantastic, but also decisions they made that are really really questionable and that hurt the movie tremendously for me.

There were certainly good elements to the movie, I just felt its shortcomings overshadowed it to the point that I couldn't get into it and enjoy those good parts. A lot of their story elements could have worked effectively, but most of them were handled badly imo. For example, Holdo sacrificing herself to save the resistance was a nice idea, and the part where the ship splits apart was a cool scene, the problem was that I didn't care about her sacrifice at all because they spent two hours playing her off as the bitchy antagonist to Poe, one of the main characters. They could have managed to make her a more sympathetic character even with clashing with Poe.

But after 30 something years, of course Luke should be reluctant to do anything. He felt responsible for causing the problem, and wasn't confident that he should be the one to try and fix it. And it made perfect sense that he didn't want to repeat his mistake with Rey either.
I did however have a problem with him being used too often for comic relief, tossing away the lightsaber immediately (great job deflating two years of anticipation with that one, guys), and the milk drinking bit. It clashed with the seriousness of his self imposed exile to me. The tone of the film was just all over the place. And his redemption at the end of the film was a bit underwhelming for me. It wasn't bad, and it served its purpose for the story, but his fade away was a bit whatever to me. I hope they do something with him as a force ghost in the next one. It would make sense, given that they were able to bring Yoda back, and now there's a hole left by Carrie Fisher's absence.


Preconceived notions have little to do with the dislike of TLJ that I've seen. 

Then, respectfully, you aren't really in tune with the general consensus of those who complain about it, because that is exactly what most of the public criticism has been.  And that's fine.  Your own personal criticism doesn't have to follow the masses.  But if that's the case, you can't really claim to speak for the masses either. 

It still bothers me that it seemingly went out of its way to piss away every single setup from TFA.

No, it doesn't really do that at all.

Respectfully, I spend a lot more time on the internet than you and in generally nerdy locations, so I think I have a perfectly good sense of the general criticisms of the film, especially from fans who can well articulate their issues with the film. I didn't claim to speak for the masses any more than you have, I just disagree with that defense, then gave my own opinions on the matter, which is all any of us are doing here. :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on March 20, 2018, 06:20:10 AM
I've been staying away from TLJ discussion, as I know others here enjoyed it, but I really agree with Blob on this one. The movie has massively dented any enthusiasm I had for Star Wars.

I didn't think it was great, a tad underwhelming - but Star Wars survived the horror of back to back drivel of Phantom Menace/Attack of the Clones.   Both those films are/were much, much worse (Not just bad Star Wars but legit bad movies period.)  and I'd take the unwelcome slapstick of TLJ over Jar Jar in a heartbeat.

The whole TLJ hate feels like a massive internet circle jerk.  The guy who I saw it with thought it was decent when we talked about it on the journey home from the cinema, now he claims to hate it because spent to much time reading all the negativity on the net.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 20, 2018, 06:21:54 AM
Well, what should have done Luke with the lightsaber? he's in self imposed exile since forever, of course he doesn't want it. Maybe tossing it was a bit too much (but I like how Rey's expectations were drastically turned around, she must have gone through it in her head... "What do I say? I introduce myself? I make a speech? got it, I'll handle him his lightsaber, that will do!"), but realistically what would have been acceptable? just not taking it and walking away from Rey? saying something like "Keep it, I don't care for it"? it would have been anyway anti climatic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 20, 2018, 06:41:40 AM
Well, what should have done Luke with the lightsaber? he's in self imposed exile since forever, of course he doesn't want it. Maybe tossing it was a bit too much (but I like how Rey's expectations were drastically turned around, she must have gone through it in her head... "What do I say? I introduce myself? I make a speech? got it, I'll handle him his lightsaber, that will do!"), but realistically what would have been acceptable? just not taking it and walking away from Rey? saying something like "Keep it, I don't care for it"? it would have been anyway anti climatic.

I think that last idea would have worked just fine, much better than what we got. But for me it's not so much about what they did, it's how they did it. Ending one film with this hugely epic shot of Luke glaring seriously at Rey as she hands him his own lightsaber, then starting the next movie with it turning into a comedy skit where he tosses it away for the cartoon birds to play with, it was such a jarring shift in tone to me that didn't work for the moment.


I've been staying away from TLJ discussion, as I know others here enjoyed it, but I really agree with Blob on this one. The movie has massively dented any enthusiasm I had for Star Wars.

I didn't think it was great, a tad underwhelming - but Star Wars survived the horror of back to back drivel of Phantom Menace/Attack of the Clones.   Both those films are/were much, much worse (Not just bad Star Wars but legit bad movies period.)  and I'd take the unwelcome slapstick of TLJ over Jar Jar in a heartbeat.

I think it survived because the 3 major films 3 years apart each is all we got, and the fanbase wasn't as segmented or jaded at that point. Now Disney are churning out movies every single year by obligation (and in the case of TLJ/Solo only half a year apart), so there's the risk of oversaturation watering down the novelty and appeal of a new SW movie, and now the fanbase is even more segmented with OT fans, PT fans, and a new generation of ST fans. TFA was a huge event because it was the first Star Wars film we'd had in a decade. We're now about to have the 4th Star Wars film in only two and a half years.
The novelty of Star Wars may wear off as people take it for granted that each year there'll be another one. It hasn't happened yet, as Rogue One and TLJ did excellent numbers, and Solo is yet to open, but Disney have to keep the quality up in future for it to work.

I think Ep IX could be a make or break film going forward, but I expect JJ will do a pretty good job with what he's been given. But then what about Rian Johnson's next trilogy, and the other trilogy from the GOT guys, and whatever side movies are next?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 20, 2018, 06:42:59 AM
On paper, the idea of Luke throwing the lightsaber away is a perfectly acceptable one, I’d even say that it’s a pretty good idea. Playing it for comedy though... horrible choice. A choice that was a massive middle finger to to an audience that has been anticipating this moment for two years, like Blob said.

Ninja’d
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 20, 2018, 06:46:07 AM
If Luke had tossed away the lightsaber in a serious moment without a word, like a whole bunch of raw emotions and history had just been brought up by the sight of someone tracking him down and handing him the saber, it would have been a powerful moment. Having the musical cue stop dead, him pulling a dopey "whatever" face and comically tossing it away, not so much.
On paper that's only a small change, but in practice, it's a world of difference to the emotion of the scene, and the film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 20, 2018, 06:48:02 AM
If Luke had tossed away the lightsaber in a serious moment without a word, like a whole bunch of raw emotions had just been brought up by the sight of someone tracking him down and handing the saber to him, it would have been a powerful moment. Having the musical cue stop dead, him pulling a dopey "whatever" face and comically tossing it away, not so much.
On paper that's only a small change, but in practice, it's a world of difference to the emotion of the scene, and the film.

Well, I can see how this precise detail of the scene and music combined could be annoying.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on March 20, 2018, 07:00:48 AM
I've been staying away from TLJ discussion, as I know others here enjoyed it, but I really agree with Blob on this one. The movie has massively dented any enthusiasm I had for Star Wars.

I didn't think it was great, a tad underwhelming - but Star Wars survived the horror of back to back drivel of Phantom Menace/Attack of the Clones.   Both those films are/were much, much worse (Not just bad Star Wars but legit bad movies period.)  and I'd take the unwelcome slapstick of TLJ over Jar Jar in a heartbeat.

The whole TLJ hate feels like a massive internet circle jerk.  The guy who I saw it with thought it was decent when we talked about it on the journey home from the cinema, now he claims to hate it because spent to much time reading all the negativity on the net.

I've seen some claim that this movie is the death of Star Wars, why? Lucasfilm will make Star Wars movies until the day stars expire, I'm sure those who dislike TLJ find something to enjoy in those future Star Wars movies.

I also find interesting, how this movie in particular is such a source of controversy. I think it is a little too long, has some awkward tonal shifts and some unnecessary stuff that could have been left on the cutting room floor. It's a middle of the pack Star Wars movie for me. Not one of the best, far from being the worst.

A pretty good movie, that has strengths that outweigh it's weaknesses imo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on March 20, 2018, 07:05:18 AM
One of the Iron Man movies (can't recall which off hand) was pretty terrible and it didn't kill the MCU. One Star Wars movie with mixed reception won't kill Star Wars if the prequel trilogy didn't. Now, if they churn out two mediocre Star Wars movies a year for the next few years, there will definitely be a slow decline in interest. The reality is we will get some good and some just OK Star Wars movies. Hopefully we won't get any that are really bad, though obviously that's up to each individual interpretation.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 20, 2018, 07:11:57 AM
I still think TLJ is a top 3 SW movies. None of them are perfect but I still contend that the majority of discontent for TLJ comes from fan theories not coming true.

My Top 3 SW Films
The Last Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back
The Revenge of the Sith
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on March 20, 2018, 07:17:32 AM
I think the reason for the controversy is how polarizing it is. What I mean is, the fan boys who hated it honestly thought they would be the overwhelming majority. When they realized there were more than a few OG fanboys who loved it, there was a spark of further outrage.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 20, 2018, 08:51:31 AM
I also feel like the narcissism of small differences is somewhat at play.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on March 20, 2018, 08:58:36 AM
PT fans

Is there such a thing?  And if so, why?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 20, 2018, 09:45:16 AM
PT fans

Is there such a thing?  And if so, why?

There is apparently such a thing. As far as I can tell, it's only people who were under the age of 10 when they first saw them, and possibly even saw them before the OT, and have some kind of deep twisted childhood nostalgia for them. I have not found any other reasonable explanation for people loving those movies (1 and 2 at least).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 20, 2018, 10:23:41 AM
Actually, this sums it up pretty nicely:  https://medium.com/@thejohnprice/star-wars-fans-dont-deserve-the-last-jedi-5bd167dfc033

A bit rude and on the nose, and I think overstates some things, but still. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on March 20, 2018, 11:57:42 AM
I did not like The Last Jedi the first time I saw it. I talked the film over with friends, realized I missed some of the brilliance in how the film was done. Went to see it again, and fell in love with it. It still has some warts (SUPERLEIA!!!!), but overall, I think it was excellent.

I am really excited to have it in 4k UHD. It will be my first "new release" on a 4k UHD blu-ray. Can't wait to see how it looks and sounds.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 20, 2018, 01:04:22 PM
Actually, this sums it up pretty nicely:  https://medium.com/@thejohnprice/star-wars-fans-dont-deserve-the-last-jedi-5bd167dfc033

A bit rude and on the nose, and I think overstates some things, but still.

Seemed pretty spot on to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 20, 2018, 01:46:01 PM
I really don't know if what that article says is true or not, I only know that it's completely irrelevant to my personal issues with the movie. It's basically playing the "you just didn't get it" card, only it doesn't matter whether I got it or not here, I just found some elements of the movie poorly executed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 20, 2018, 01:50:19 PM
I really don't know if what that article says is true or not, I only know that it's completely irrelevant to my personal issues with the movie. It's basically playing the "you just didn't get it" card, only it doesn't matter whether I got it or not here, I just found some elements of the movie poorly executed.

What I liked about the article was that it pointed out the fact that the OT weren't cinematic masterpieces filled with mind bending dialogue and plot devices. They were just simple, fun kid stories....that had been told in one form or another for quite some time. I think those of us who were enamored with SW from a young age have built this aura about and around the OT and have made them out in our minds to be better 'movies' than they actually are.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 20, 2018, 01:54:53 PM
Great article.

In addition to the on-screen story, The Last Jedi tells a meta-narrative about Star Wars itself: Kylo Ren is a Vader cosplayer who grew up playing with dark side toys. Snoke is an internet troll whining that Kylo Ren got beat by a girl. Rey believes in The Legend and wants nothing more than for Luke to come to the galaxy’s rescue with a laser sword. Poe doesn’t care about the human element, as long as the explosions look cool. And Finn is a naive rube, new to the universe and bumbling his way through the adventure knowing that the rules of storytelling mean it’ll magically work out in the end. Every one of us went into The Last Jedi as one of those five: Kylo the entitled cosplayer, Snoke the myopic troll, Rey the true believer, Poe the adrenaline junkie, or Finn the blind simpleton. And what happened? All of these characters’ assumptions, beliefs, and assurances blew up in their faces. The fans spent two years between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi coming up with theories and speculation and expectations for what they would see. And what happened? All of the fans’ assumptions, beliefs, and assurances blew up in their faces.

That’s a heckuva lot deeper than “farmboy rescues princess and fights the evil empire.”

Agreed 100%.

Also, I'm a fan of the PT.  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 20, 2018, 02:04:19 PM
Lol at the whole part, especially "Kylo Ren is a Vader cosplayer who grew up playing with dark side toys."

Snoke even calls him out on that while he and Rey are in his presence. But I guess that's precisely the entire point: Kylo Ren is a Vader wannabe, we're not meant to see how badass and iconic he is, we're meant to see him for what he is: someone who wants so bad to be Vader, but will never match up to him.

Still, he did what only Vader dreamt of, killing the Emperor.

Oh, LOL at "If you think that the Darth Vader turn was some brilliant Shyamalan twist… you… should read more Shakespeare. The guy’s name is literally “Dark Father.” "... even though I think it's pretty safe to say that the whole Vader is Luke's dad was totally made up during the writing of Empire (no, not the Queensryche album).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 20, 2018, 02:07:44 PM
I love Star Wars, but I never had any illusion that they were objectively great movies. No SW movie would get near any top 10 movies of all time list for me. You won't hear me say that any SW movie should have been nominated for best picture. But that has no bearing on the critisisms of The Last Jedi.

As for the meta-narrative. That may very well be true, what do I know, but it also seems like reading too much into it. You can basically asign any meaning you want to any narrative ever if you want it badly enough. So yeah, compelling theory, but not something that immediately strikes me as something to take seriously.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on March 27, 2018, 10:21:38 PM
Just finished watching the feature length doc and some of the smaller supplements on the Last Jedi blu. Kudos to Lucasfilm for not hiding. During the doc, Hamill's unhappiness with the script was an ongoing thread. Several interviews and comments from Hamill on what he thought was wrong, etc. Nice to see them address things head-on. Kudos to Hamill for being such a pro through it all. The man is all class.

In another supplement, Johnson gives details and explanations on several of the plot points that pissed people off. He gives some great explanations on what he did and why he did it. I gained a lot of respect for him from watching these docs. He's a genuine fan and seems like a really nice guy to boot.

All in all, I love the movie and support pretty much every decision he made. The 10 minute mini-doc with the plot explanations really cemented what I already liked. He gave them even more validation for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 27, 2018, 11:59:46 PM
Need to see that one. Sounds really interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on March 28, 2018, 12:24:36 AM
In my country, the Blu Ray doesn't come out until the middle of next month. Need to see that doc now!

Kudos for Hamill for being candid. He could have very easily hammed up he's performance in the film, but he knocked it out of the park despite he's personal feelings toward the script..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on March 28, 2018, 12:42:59 AM
Yea, he hasn't kept his feelings hidden.

He recently gave an interview talking about how the script didn't have time for Luke's character development, but it had plenty of time for drinking alien milk.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 28, 2018, 12:11:31 PM
Just picked up the Blu Ray and Bonus material. Looking forward to watching it...especially now with the opinions I've read
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 29, 2018, 07:52:18 AM
What's interesting is that I think Luke's story was handled great. I'm guess Mark has had 30 years to make up in his head how Luke's story should go and he was disappointed with the direction taken. In other words he's a typical star wars fan.  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on March 29, 2018, 07:57:15 AM
I wasn't really disappointed that he choose to be a hermit all those years and didn't want to intervene. I was more disappointed that we didn't really see him train Rey much. Having her slowly open him up to her and train her a little more would have been nice. Especially given that we got that damn casino scene at the expense of more time with Luke and Rey. My main annoyance with the new trilogy is that Rey is becoming a very powerful Jedi with virtually no training at all. Jedi used to train for 20-ish year before they became a Jedi Knight. Now some girl just has the Force awaken within her and she's good to go. Overall I've liked both movies a lot, but I understand the general complaints about them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 29, 2018, 08:40:37 AM
My main annoyance with the new trilogy is that Rey is becoming a very powerful Jedi with virtually no training at all. Jedi used to train for 20-ish year before they became a Jedi Knight. Now some girl just has the Force awaken within her and she's good to go.

I hear you.  But keep in mind that Empire did the same thing with Luke.  He trained for, what, a couple of days tops with Yoda before running off to fight Vader.  And then in ROTJ, his powers have grown, despite that he apparently never returned and finished his training.  That could have easily been fixed by just doing a time lapse and explaining that Luke was on Dagobah for a few months, or even a couple of years, while Han, Leia, and Chewie spent that time hiding and on the run before finally ending up in Cloud City and being tracked there by the Empire.  And then have him return for more training between Empire and ROTJ.  But, no.  He trained for a couple of days and was good to go. 

So while I agree with your criticism wholeheartedly, it's kind of silly to hold that only against the new films when it was actually bad precedent that was set in the OT. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on March 29, 2018, 09:43:50 AM
Luke is also the son of Vader and it is clearly explained that he and his sister inherited his fathers ability to use the Force. Rey just has it  :tdwn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 29, 2018, 10:25:17 AM
Yes, but (1) who cares?  And (2) who cares?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on March 29, 2018, 10:37:53 AM
I do, but I also point out all the things that make the original trilogy god awful, too, so...  :biggrin: Like in bosk's post above, all I think is, "This is just making the case that Star Wars in general is not good"  :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on March 29, 2018, 10:38:02 AM
I care.  I think that's a good point.  Luke started his training with Obi-Wan, then went to Dagobah to train further with Yoda.  We didn't see a lot with Yoda, but there was definitely enough to evoke the passage of time.  I always figured he was there at least a few weeks if not months.  But as the son of Anakin Skywalker, he had the natural ability already; it just needed focus.

Rey is supposedly the daughter of a couple of "nobodies" and we really saw very little to indicate that she trained with Luke for more than a couple of days.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on March 29, 2018, 10:53:56 AM
Here's the thing, like many, Luke was one of, if not my favorite character. And like many, on first watch, I hated what they did. On second watch, I changed my mind. Yesterday was the first time I watched it at home instead of the theater, and found myself really appreciating what Johnson did.

Luke develops from a bitter old man who feels like he let the universe down, to a man who realizes he's been wallowing in self-pity and redeems himself and becomes a hero again, even showing just how strong (more than anyone else who we've seen) in the force he really is at the end with his iconic appearance. He ends up being the spark that drives a renewed upsurge (I assume) in the force and the rebellion.

The only thing I didn't like (aside from Super Leia, which is ridiculous) is Luke's flippant toss of the lightsaber at the beginning. If that particular move was cut, and he instead gave it back to Rey, I think it would have set a better tone from the outset.

Trust me, I am a Luke fanboy who wanted him to be the Luke of old. But by the time we got to the end, the Luke I've always known was once again there to save the day. And to be honest, I think Luke will have a critical role in the next film, as he will train Rey as a force ghost. I am guessing, but I do think there is more to Luke's story.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on March 29, 2018, 10:57:56 AM
Luke develops from a bitter old man who feels like he let the universe down, to a man who realizes he's been wallowing in self-pity and redeems himself and becomes a hero again, even showing just how strong (more than anyone else who we've seen) in the force he really is at the end with his iconic appearance. He ends up being the spark that drives a renewed upsurge (I assume) in the force and the rebellion.

The only thing I didn't like (aside from Super Leia, which is ridiculous) is Luke's flippant toss of the lightsaber at the beginning. If that particular move was cut, and he instead gave it back to Rey, I think it would have set a better tone from the outset.

Yes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 29, 2018, 11:00:39 AM
I care.  I think that's a good point.  Luke started his training with Obi-Wan, then went to Dagobah to train further with Yoda.  We didn't see a lot with Yoda, but there was definitely enough to evoke the passage of time.  I always figured he was there at least a few weeks if not months.  But as the son of Anakin Skywalker, he had the natural ability already; it just needed focus.

Rey is supposedly the daughter of a couple of "nobodies" and we really saw very little to indicate that she trained with Luke for more than a couple of days.

Yes, but (1) so what?  And (2) so what?

Oh, and:
Luke trained for maybe a couple of hours on the Falcon with Obi Wan.
Luke trained for maybe a couple of days max with Yoda.  It is clear there is no significant passage of time because the Falcon isn't on the run for that long. 
So you will find that it is you who are mistaken.  About a great many things.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on March 29, 2018, 11:18:40 AM
I care, and I know that you don't care that I care, but I don't care that you don't care that I care.

It is indeed a flaw in the script/directing/whatever that tries to show passage of time on Dagobah while apparently very little time has passed for Han and Leia.  I just don't care.  And I know that you don't care that I don't care, but...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 29, 2018, 11:58:42 AM
The way Luke carries himself at the beginning of RotJ, I always assumed that he went back and trained more between the movies. Haven't ever looked into it, but that's what I just naturally assumed.

Also, who knows how long it takes to get to Cloud City without a functioning hyper driver. I think there could be a legit case made that Luke was training with Yoda for a significant longer period than the movie makes it appear.

A clear difference however, is that while Rey seems to have far less training, she has been put in situations where she has had a lot more success. Luke wasn't sufficiently trained when he first faced Vader, something both Yoda and Obi-Wan were keen to point out and were right about, he suffered terrible consequences because of it. He lost, hard. Vader was playing around with him, as he should have. I love Rey and think she is arguably the best thing about the new trilogy (even though she took the back seat a bit in TLJ), and while I'm usually on the other end of this argument, I can't deny that her lack of any apparent flaw or proper failure makes it easier for people to call her a Mary Sue.

I am personally all for the idea that her parents were nobodies, that is a brilliant twist in my opinion (aside from the fact that TFA doesn't seem to agree).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on March 29, 2018, 01:01:04 PM
The "nobodies" factor is important, and I do believe Rey's parents were nobodies. Note at the end, with the boy sweeping (note he called the broom to him using the force) was, as it appears, a "nobody." The overriding theme is that you don't have to be "someone" to make a big impact. Age-old theme. And a good one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 29, 2018, 01:02:36 PM
The "nobodies" factor is important, and I do believe Rey's parents were nobodies. Note at the end, with the boy sweeping (note he called the broom to him using the force) was, as it appears, a "nobody." The overriding theme is that you don't have to be "someone" to make a big impact.

"That was the point. Anyone could be the Batman"

Ehr, wrong franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on March 29, 2018, 01:09:59 PM
The "nobodies" factor is important, and I do believe Rey's parents were nobodies. Note at the end, with the boy sweeping (note he called the broom to him using the force) was, as it appears, a "nobody." The overriding theme is that you don't have to be "someone" to make a big impact.

"That was the point. Anyone could be the Batman"

Ehr, wrong franchise.

 :lol

And totally wrong with Batman (even though I am a Nolan trilogy fanboy). But it works for Rey and TLJ
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on March 29, 2018, 02:09:53 PM
I'm with those who think that Dagobah was at least weeks if not months of time, but I guess there's no way to know for sure. And realistically, Luke got as much actual Jedi training from Obi Wan on the Falcon that Luke gave to Rey during her time on the island. He didn't really train her at all other than having her reach out with the Force.



Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 29, 2018, 02:16:56 PM
No one cared about those things with ESB/RotJ because they were too busy being wrapped up in an exciting, entertaining story.

We are also in the CinemaSins generation. As they themselves say, there is no movie without sins. In 1980 we didn't make videos pointing out all the plotholes every movie had.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on March 29, 2018, 02:26:38 PM
In 1980 we didn't make videos pointing out all the plotholes every movie had.

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/3mwZr54h9ZoGeB1mBmL1qAILaDk=/0x0:970x595/920x613/filters:focal(408x221:562x375):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/55412265/fullwidth.1a850c31.0.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 29, 2018, 02:32:23 PM
That was a crappy show making fun of crappier movies. But.... touche.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 30, 2018, 07:34:02 AM
We are also in the CinemaSins generation. As they themselves say, there is no movie without sins. In 1980 we didn't make videos pointing out all the plotholes every movie had.

Like Indy preventing the Ark from reaching successfully Berlin, and therefore melting just the faces of some random goonies rather than the entire head of the Reich instead  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 31, 2018, 06:39:49 PM
I just finished the Blu-Ray bonus content. While I understand that Lucasfilm carefully crafts these things to present a certain image, I was still taken aback by all the genuinely awesome moments that were captured. Say what you want about the film, but I think that Rian Johnson's heart was in the right place. He poured a lot of love into it. You can also tell that the movie genuinely meant something to Carrie Fisher and others. :metal

Also, count me in the "I Don't Care That Rey Wasn't Trained" camp. Mostly because... Who cares? But also because the original trilogy set the precedent that training is merely a bonus. :millahhhh
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 31, 2018, 10:00:48 PM
Just watched TLJ again with the kiddos. Every subsequent viewing I gain more and more appreciation for it. I just think it’s a really good movie. Looking forward to the Bonus material.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on April 02, 2018, 08:29:50 AM
Finally watched The Last Jedi after a nearly 5 month wait.  Skipped it in the theaters - it's too hard to get out with two young kids.  I avoided most spoilers, except for three:  Luke dies, Luke isn't his old self, and Yoda appears.  I had no idea of how any of that happened or tied together, so the spoilers didn't really bother me.

I thought it was amazing on my first watch.  Yeah, I'd love a big, badass Jedi Knight Luke right from the get go, but within the story, it fully made sense to me where he's at and why he's done with being a Jedi.  Life isn't always happy.  We all go through experiences that beat us down - so why can't our favorite characters be that real as well?  I'm not going to re-read this thread, but I did see bosk note that preconceived notions are pretty much the stem of the movie's criticism, and I completely agree.  We all thought we'd know where this movie was headed and that it would answer all of those questions from TFA, and it didn't, and I'm glad for that.  You all thought TFA was a rip off?  Fine, here's a movie that isn't a rip off - we're going to take your favorite character and flip him on his head..  "Waaaaaah, it isn't what we wanted." 

Leia flying through space was silly, but the prequels all featured Force Pushing heavily, so why can't she reach out to the force in her greatest need and use it to pull herself through space?  It's just the opposite of a force push, and she was certainly incapacitated due to the event as well.  It's not like she got back onto the ship and was all fine and dandy from the get go.  I can overlook that stuff easily when these movies do exactly what I want - which is make me feel like I'm 10 years old again and draw me into this amazing universe. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on April 02, 2018, 12:36:34 PM
To once again address the ”personal preconcieved notions being everyone’s problem” bit, that hasn’t been the case for me or the people I’ve spoken to. A lot of people’s grievances seem to be based on perfectly legitimate critisisms. And as far as I can tell, the few critisims that actually are based on expectations are not personal at all, but often based on specific set-up from or questions raised by TFA, which is just not the same thing.

As for the Leia flying through space thing, I don’t personally mind it happening, I just wish it hadn’t looked so freakin’ dumb. That’s what ruined it for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on April 06, 2018, 03:01:59 PM
Something was pointed out to me that i didn’t think about before. Johnson wrote TLJ during production for TFA, in which it was announced during said production that JJ would be an Executive Producer. There’s no way JJ and Johnson never had a conversation about the direction to go for Episode 8. I think the answers that people want are going to have to wait until Episode 9 (im in the crowd that thinks Kylo was lying to Rey about her lineage), and we are in the movie generation that wants the answers and twists right away. What Johnson did which I thought was brilliant was he gave us key character arcs for Kylo and Rey thats going to pay off moving forward. We know that Kylo will never be turned, that he killed both the conflicts that he was struggling with (Han and Snoke). Yeah, it would be interesting to know more of Snoke’s backstory, but I find it more intriguing that Kylo is the ultimate baddie going into episode 9. I’ll only be dissapointed if we never get to see any Knights of Ren action.

Something I’ve thought about the past few days.

My gf and are going to watch TLJ with Rian Johnsons commentary tonight. I hope it’s as insightful as that “The Dirctor and The Jedi” bonus feature on the blu-ray
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on April 06, 2018, 04:59:49 PM
I hardly think it was brilliance... more like a total disconnect from the audience perspective. Commentary is just there to explain his bad story telling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on April 06, 2018, 05:20:28 PM
Hardly bad storytelling, but to each his own!

I guess The Last Jedi is the new “Dont bring up politics during Thanksgiving dinner”  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on April 07, 2018, 01:15:38 AM
Every subsequent viewing I gain more and more appreciation for it.
  I REALLY hope this is how it turns out for me.  When I saw it in the theaters certain things really bugged me.  The comic relief stuff, and of course Leia thwarting serious damage to herself out in the vacuum.  Anyone who knows me knows I'm pretty liberal with my reviews, and I like a LOT of movies that the gen pop critiques.  Such as the Prequels.... I enjoyed them.  Or the Matrix 2/3.  Loved those too!

This movie though....I picked up the BR yesterday and had a bit of a tough time watching it.  NEVER have I had that experience with a SW's movie.  :sadpanda:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on April 08, 2018, 09:53:24 PM
New Solo trailer our and up on youtube. Not following this movie's production at all. So not really sure what the story is. And I sure ain't getting it from the trailers. I get it, I am not supposed to (ignoring that some trailers go out of their way to show the entire movie in 2:30, but that's beside the point). On the surface, "Here's the backstory of the Han Solo we met in Ep4" isn't enough to get me interested.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on April 09, 2018, 01:07:07 AM
The moment Lando said "buckle up baby" I was sold! :lol Donald Glover is going to give Billy Dee a run for his money.

I dug the trailer! I'm even starting to warm up to Ehrenreich as Han. From the trailer I got the feel of what Star Wars was originally about, a fun and slightly cheesy space adventure in the vein of the old adventure serials.

So, yeah! I'll go see it in the theater.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 09, 2018, 01:10:36 AM
This trailer was definitely better than what we've previously seen, and Donald Glover looks like he's gonna kill it, but I'll be giving this one a miss.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on April 09, 2018, 06:06:07 AM
Trailer was ok. I'm still not convinced that this dude is Han Solo, but I'm open to persuasion.

I'm intrigued about that extra bit on the front of the Falcon, between the two front "jaws". What is it? Some kind of escape pod?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on April 09, 2018, 06:18:33 AM
I thought the trailer was good. Honestly my only hold-up about this movie is that it's supposed to be Han Solo. If he was supposed ot some other character I'd be super excited about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 09, 2018, 06:28:31 AM
Trailer was ok. I'm still not convinced that this dude is Han Solo, but I'm open to persuasion.

That was always going to be the make or break for this film. I still can’t believe they thought that they could capture Han Solo from a different actor. Harrison Ford is Han Solo....he’s an iconic character. As with you, I’m open to the persuasion from the film and actor that it’s a young Han. I just don’t see how you can emulate what Harrison Ford did with that character. We shall find out soon....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on April 09, 2018, 07:00:21 AM
It's a difficult one, because if he were to play it too close to Harrison Ford, he'll be accused of doing a bad impersonation, and if he does his own thing, people will also complain that it's not true to the original.

But even so, for me, he'll still need to have that cocky, overconfident "swagger" to play the character. (Maybe even more so, if it's a younger version of Han) I'm not sure I've seen that yet, from the short clips we've seen, but hopefully we will get it in the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 09, 2018, 07:29:29 AM
I won't see Solo in the theater, but I'll check it out once it comes around to cable.  The movie wasn't "necessary" but hey, they made it anyway, so I might as well see what they came up with.  I don't worship Star Wars like some do, but I like most of it and the universe they've created.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 09, 2018, 09:09:56 AM
Looks like a fun Star Wars action movie. It appears that Han was miscast and I'm concerned with the reported talent issues with him. That being said, the trailer looks cool and I think it will be a good fun film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 09, 2018, 09:47:20 AM
Looks like a fun Star Wars action movie. It appears that Han was miscast and I'm concerned with the reported talent issues with him. That being said, the trailer looks cool and I think it will be a good fun film.

I think it looks cool as well and predict it'll be a much bigger success than the negative 'buzz' around the internet is leading us to believe. I mean, the production alone looks incredible.




Question is.....will this be the first SW movie that does not have a light saber in it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 09, 2018, 10:33:19 PM
Ran across this fan video....thought it was pretty neat.


https://youtu.be/pykJCXKhllA
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on April 11, 2018, 06:48:41 PM
Trailer was ok. I'm still not convinced that this dude is Han Solo, but I'm open to persuasion.

I'm intrigued about that extra bit on the front of the Falcon, between the two front "jaws". What is it? Some kind of escape pod?

Yeah I'm sure they have some silly explanation, a sister ship, a makeover after they crash it, lightened it up to be faster than the average freighter or some crap.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on April 12, 2018, 06:08:39 AM
Han did say that he had made some special modifications to the Falcon in ANH, so it makes sense that it looks different when he first gets it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Aelon on April 12, 2018, 07:01:36 AM
I think I saw somewhere in the toy version that it was a separate ship that ejects or something.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on April 12, 2018, 07:19:29 AM
This trailer was definitely better than what we've previously seen, and Donald Glover looks like he's gonna kill it, but I'll be giving this one a miss.

Agreed.

Trailer was ok. I'm still not convinced that this dude is Han Solo, but I'm open to persuasion.

I wlth you on this as well.  I'm open to persuasion, but I'm not feeling it AT ALL at the moment.  Look, he doesn't need to *be* just like Harrison Ford, but he has to be believable that he could grow in to the same character as Harrison Ford.  To me, Ewan McGregor nailed the prequel Obi-Wan.  He had the mannerisms, altered his accent ever so slightly, and adapted the style/inflection of his voice.  He studied Sir Alec a LOT to prepare and give an authentic younger Obi-Wan.  And he convinced me he was a younger Obi-Wan.

I get none of that from this guy (not even bothered to look up his name).  To me, it feels like they didn't even care - completely ignoring/disregarding Harrison's delivery of Han.  It's tantamount to completely swapping out actors for the same character (ala Terrence Howard/Don Cheadle in the MCU)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 12, 2018, 08:24:05 AM
Started on 'Rebels' last night.....only watched the first episode but it was pretty neat.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 13, 2018, 08:18:08 AM
Started on 'Rebels' last night.....only watched the first episode but it was pretty neat.

It's a good but not great series. There are some really great episodes and some duds, similar to clone wars which I prefer. Still a worthy addition to the Star Wars cannon. Looking forward to the next iteration. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 13, 2018, 08:44:18 AM
Started on 'Rebels' last night.....only watched the first episode but it was pretty neat.

It's a good but not great series. There are some really great episodes and some duds, similar to clone wars which I prefer. Still a worthy addition to the Star Wars cannon. Looking forward to the next iteration.

I hammered out another three episodes last night. If it sticks to what you're saying and is similar to Clone Wars as far as the frequency of dud vs cool episodes....I'm cool with it. Plus, I know from just seeing here and there that Ahsoka comes back at a later date so that'll keep me hooked. For whatever reason I have an odd fascination and attraction to her character. Curious to see how she's used in 'Rebels'.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 13, 2018, 11:33:00 AM
Started on 'Rebels' last night.....only watched the first episode but it was pretty neat.

It's a good but not great series. There are some really great episodes and some duds, similar to clone wars which I prefer. Still a worthy addition to the Star Wars cannon. Looking forward to the next iteration.

I hammered out another three episodes last night. If it sticks to what you're saying and is similar to Clone Wars as far as the frequency of dud vs cool episodes....I'm cool with it. Plus, I know from just seeing here and there that Ahsoka comes back at a later date so that'll keep me hooked. For whatever reason I have an odd fascination and attraction to her character. Curious to see how she's used in 'Rebels'.

I'd have to watch the series again to say for sure, but based on memory season 2 is best probably because of Ahsoka and Vader. Season 1 is easily weakest season of the show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on April 13, 2018, 02:54:23 PM
The end of season 2 is fantastic. By any standard. The rest of the show is as you've described, sometimes good, sometimes a bit silly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 17, 2018, 11:34:42 AM
Okay, here is something that REALLY bothers me about the Star Wars films.  More than Jar-Jar.  More than probably anything else, even though it is a seemingly minor detail.

R2-D2 and C-3PO do not belong in ANY of the prequel trilogy films or Rogue One.  Neither does Chewbacca, but I can tolerate his presence in ROTS because it sort of makes sense that he could have been at the battle of Kashyyyk.  But still, I prefer to think he was more of a solitary rogue even at that point, because it better suits the character that was portrayed in the OT and beyond.  But anyway, the droids do not belong in the PT or R1.  Or if they were portrayed there, their appearances should have been brief and minor.  There was plenty of other fan service and plenty of other callbacks.  We didn't need the stupid droids.

Perhaps the most important reason is that, in the OT, neither Obi Wan nor Vader appear to recognize the droids.  The EXTENSIVE and rather intimate interaction the two had with those two droids in the PT just doesn't make sense and appears to obviously retconned that it takes me out of the moment almost whenever they are onscreen in the PT.  Second, their interaction and character arcs in the OT don't really make much sense given the extent of their close interaction with one another in the PT.  Third, as I alluded to above, their presence in the PT was completely unnecessary. 

As far as R1, I think they actually should have been in that film, but just not where they were placed.  There is no evidence that Leia or the Tantive IV were on Yavin 4 at any point during the events in R1.  Therefore, the droids shouldn't have been there.  If they were to be given a cameo in that movie, it should have been at the end aboard the Tantive IV when the plans are given to Leia.  Yeah, there could be any number of ways in which they actually got from Yavin 4 to the Tantive IV in the interim.  But the events that occur between the time we see the droids and the time the battle of Scarif occur in such a rapid-fire manner in such a short period of time that it would seem very odd for the droids to have been picked up and taken along, which leads some of us in the audience to stop and have to think about how it could have happened and how unlikely it would be.  And, IMO, if it is likely that the audience will do that, then the storytellers haven't done a good job.  And that brings me to another problem altogether that I had with an otherwise stellar R1.  The Tantive IV shouldn't have been there to begin with.  It wasn't a war ship, and Leia was too important a leader to have been present at a battle that was likely to be a suicide mission or at the very least result in HEAVY casualties for the rebellion.  They could have done the ending sequence basically the same, but had it be some other ship.  That other ship beams the plans away just as Vader kills the person who did it.  The Imperials then look at the ship's computers and determine that the plans were beamed to the Tantive IV and are able to ascertain its location from the transmission, and have a line about jumping to hyperspace to immediately pursue it near Tatooine.  THEN it should cut to the scene were Leia is given the plans and delivers her "hope" line, with the droids present, if necessary.  That would be a much cleaner way to do it and still bridge us directly to the opening of Ep. IV.

/rant
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on April 17, 2018, 11:38:31 AM
I recall decades ago (like probably early 90s) hearing that Lucas planned on having the droids be the only characters who would be in all 9 episodes. So at least at some level they were always vaguely planned. I agree though that the way they were in the prequel trilogy made no sense given the lack of recognition from Obi-Wan.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 17, 2018, 12:08:09 PM
Yep, back when Lucas said that there would be nine episodes (before he changed it to six and swore he never said nine), he'd also said that R2-D2 and C-3P0 would be the only two characters in all nine episodes.  I always pictured them as being somewhat in the background, popping up once in a while but basically only making cameo appearances.  But it was at least possible since droids "live" a long time.

Then he somehow decided that an eight-year-old kid could build a "protocol droid" (fluent in 400,000 forms of communication) out of scrap metal, and it only went downhill from there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 17, 2018, 12:10:02 PM
Yeah, and if they happened to show up or were just used differently and in a way that was actually consistent with the PT, I wouldn't have had a problem with it.  But the way they showed up was just all wrong.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 17, 2018, 12:35:53 PM
The retcon is strong with this prequel trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 17, 2018, 12:47:17 PM
:lol  Yeah.

Since my rant did include R1 in a major way, I do want to back up and express again how much I love that film.  I think it's still my favorite movie in the franchise, if I had to pick one.  It just provides so much richness and texture to the Star Wars universe, and it is gritty in all the right ways without going too far and taking us out of that universe.  It's funny how a movie I had so little interest in when I initially heard about it ended up being my favorite of the bunch.

I was reading the Wikipedia summary to look up something in one of my previous posts, and found the following about the sound track.  I love the alternate titles.  :lol

Quote
All music was composed by Giacchino except where noted. Giacchino, who has a history of using track titles that contain wordplay, shared his alternate list in the liner notes of the soundtrack release. These names are listed in the notes.

1. "He's Here for Us" ("A Krennic Connection") 3:20
2. "A Long Ride Ahead" ("Jyn and Scare It") 3:56
3. "Wobani Imperial Labor Camp" ("Jyncarcerated") 0:54
4. "Trust Goes Both Ways" ("Going to See Saw"; includes "The Force Theme" by John Williams) 2:45
5. "When Has Become Now" ("That New Death Star Smell"; includes "Death Star Motif" by John Williams) 1:59
6. "Jedha Arrival" ("Jedha Call Saw") 2:48
7. "Jedha City Ambush" ("When Ambush Come to Shove") 2:19
8. "Star-Dust" ("Erso-Facto") 3:47
9. "Confrontation on Eadu" ("Go Do, That Eadu, That You Do, So Well"; includes "Death Star Motif" by John Williams) 8:05
10. "Krennic's Aspirations" ("Have a Choke and a Smile"; includes "Imperial Motif" and "The Imperial March" by John Williams) 4:16
11. "Rebellions Are Built on Hope" ("Erso in Vain") 2:56
12. "Rogue One" ("Takes One to Rogue One"; includes "The Force Theme" by John Williams) 2:04
13. "Cargo Shuttle SW-0608" ("World's Worst Vacation Destination") 3:59
14. "Scrambling the Rebel Fleet" ("Scarif Tactics"; includes "The Force Theme" and "Star Wars Main Theme" by John Williams) 1:33
15. "AT-ACT Assault" ("Bazed and Confused"; includes "Rebel Fanfare" and "Imperial Walkers" by John Williams) 2:55
16. "The Master Switch" ("Switch Hunt") 4:02
17. "Your Father Would Be Proud" ("Transmission Impossible") 4:51
18. "Hope" ("Live and Let Jedi"; includes "The Imperial March", "Death Star Motif", "Rebel Blockade Runner", and "The Force Theme" by John Williams) 1:37
19. "Jyn Erso and Hope Suite" 5:51
20. "The Imperial Suite" 2:29
21. "Guardians of the Whills Suite" 2:52
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 17, 2018, 01:05:38 PM
Most of those are pretty great! :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on April 17, 2018, 06:24:15 PM
Perhaps the most important reason is that, in the OT, neither Obi Wan nor Vader appear to recognize the droids.  The EXTENSIVE and rather intimate interaction the two had with those two droids in the PT just doesn't make sense and appears to obviously retconned that it takes me out of the moment almost whenever they are onscreen in the PT.

Well...the whole thing about Obi-Wan claiming not to recall ever owning a droid has been the subject of tons of discussion online.  The most plausible explanation (IMO) is that he was being poker faced so as not to reveal too much to Luke too soon.  Obi-Wan's facial expression when he told Luke he didn't recall ever owning a droid was completely consistent with someone concealing something he didn't want to disclose.  After all, he lied to Luke about what happened to Anakin, so it's not too surprising that he wouldn't say, "Oh yeah!  Those are the droids I hung around with during the Battle of Naboo and the Clone Wars.  I had their memories wiped after your father turned into Darth Vader.  Oh, hey, fun fact:  your father actually built C3PO!  Small galaxy, eh?!"

As far as Darth Vader's seeming ignorance of the droids, I don't think Vader ever saw either of them in ANH (except maybe briefly after he killed Obi-Wan and everyone was running into the Millennium Falcon).  In Empire, Vader saw both of the droids in Cloud City, but what was he supposed to do, say, "Hey!  Those are MY droids!"  And, for all we know he was slack-jawed underneath his mask when he saw them.  By that point, why would he give a crap about a couple droids he owned before he became "more machine . . . than man."  He had actively buried his prior identity as Anakin, so any sort of emotional reaction on seeing the droids would have been grossly inconsistent with the character.

So, from that point of view, I don't think any of this is problematic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on April 18, 2018, 04:36:57 AM
Bought TLJ on blu ray, and finally had the chance to watch the feature length documentary. One of the best "making of" documentary's made about a SW movie, and just a plain great documentary period!

It was great to see Rian Johnson and the producer Ram Bergman, being like kids lost in a candy store! An indie director and producer with no experience with large productions, just going at it. Say what you want about the film, but Johnson and Bergman were swinging for the fences, during every single day of the production. Rian stood 100% behind his vision, and it shows!

Some of The Last Jedi worked for me, some it didn't. But even after another rewatch, I still like it very much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 18, 2018, 07:12:43 AM
That's one thing I've gotten from pretty much everything I've read about Rian Johnson.  Whether you think he's a genius, completely shit on what The Force Awakens had set up, or anything in between, he definitely had his vision and went for it.  He's shown a true love of the Star Wars universe and franchise, and got his chance to make a Star Wars movie and did it, his way.  Whether or not one might agree with any given thing he did, well, that's down to individual taste and experience.

A lot of The Last Jedi was pretty cool, some of it didn't really work for me, and the rest is somewhere in between.  Overall, it was entertaining and I try not to think about the flaws too much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on April 18, 2018, 08:57:36 AM
Michael Giacchino is often pretty funny with his track titles. Just look up his stuff for the new Planet of the Apes movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on April 21, 2018, 05:30:33 PM
I finally saw the picture that Empire put out of Paul Bettany standing near the Mandalorian armor. I know a lot of people are speculating that’s how Boba Fett might get his armor, but I’m thinking, based on the scars on Bettany’s face, that he is playing a Mandalorian warlord, and he probably came across some Jedi in his characters backstory. If there’s any connection to Boba Fett, it will be through Bettany’s character. The seeds of Han’s rivalry with Fett could be at play here. If the film warrents it, I rather another adventure of Young Han Solo and Chewie with Boba as an antagonist rather than a solo Boba Fett movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ganpondorodf on April 24, 2018, 04:31:33 PM
Did Han Solo and Boba Fett have any kind of long standing connection? I just assumed Boba Fett was a random bounty hunter with some nifty armor
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on April 25, 2018, 12:26:24 AM
I don’t know, the only thing that could hint at that that can think of is just before Boba Fett dies Chewie yells something about him and Han seems to know the name. I also assume it’s possible that they’ve run into each other while both doing work for Jabba.

Also, saw The Last Jedi again for the first time since the theater. Every subsequent viewing of this movie pretty much cements my initial sentiment: much to love, much to hate, probably making it the most difficult Star Wars movie to actually pin down how I feel about it overall because of how vastly uneven its quality is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 25, 2018, 02:43:06 PM
Periodically, when I think about Star Wars, I often stop and wonder--why doesn't Chewbacca wear any pants?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: PowerSlave on April 25, 2018, 05:49:41 PM
Periodically, when I think about Star Wars, I often stop and wonder--why doesn't Chewbacca wear any pants?

He's a hippy free love child. It explains all of the hair...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 25, 2018, 06:44:48 PM
The end of season 2 is fantastic. By any standard. The rest of the show is as you've described, sometimes good, sometimes a bit silly.
I'd have to watch the series again to say for sure, but based on memory season 2 is best probably because of Ahsoka and Vader. Season 1 is easily weakest season of the show.

I'm 8 Episodes in to season 2 and really enjoying it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 25, 2018, 11:44:18 PM
Periodically, when I think about Star Wars, I often stop and wonder--why doesn't Chewbacca wear any pants?

According to the EU book "Secrets of the Kashyyyk", Wookiees have retractable penises that only extend during extended foreplay of several hours, with their sexual encounters lasting several days, so they typically don't have any visible genitalia to cover up under most circumstances.
Also Wookiees have extremely sensitive fur that they use to detect subtle disruptions in localized conditions such as invaders moving through a forest, which is what makes them such a good warrior race. Wearing clothes apparently interferes with that.




Also I just made that all up, but it's probably the kind of thing they'd stick in the EU anyway.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 08:44:53 AM
:lol

Even if all that were true (and part of me oh so wishes that it is!), there is still the issue of unwanted wookie butt sweat everywhere they sit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 26, 2018, 08:51:48 AM
Chewbacca's bandolier is actually full of wipes to remove unwanted butt sweat. Read the EU some time, people.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 09:12:51 AM
I confess that I hadn't even considered that possibility.


By the way, what prompted my post was an article in my newsfeed yesterday titled "Fully Shaved Chewbacca Is The Most Horrifying Thing Ever."  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 26, 2018, 11:01:19 AM
By the way, what prompted my post was an article in my newsfeed yesterday titled "Fully Shaved Chewbacca Is The Most Horrifying Thing Ever."  :lol

There are many things on the Internet that I would not even considering clicking.  This is one of them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 11:58:13 AM
:lol  Same here.  But I found the title quite amusing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on May 04, 2018, 03:42:59 AM
May the Fourth be with you  :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: PowerSlave on May 04, 2018, 03:59:32 AM
By the way, what prompted my post was an article in my newsfeed yesterday titled "Fully Shaved Chewbacca Is The Most Horrifying Thing Ever."  :lol

There are many things on the Internet that I would not even considering clicking.  This is one of them.

Turns out that it was actually a picture of my ex mother in law. She's been letting herself go, lately.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 04, 2018, 10:16:59 AM
May the Fourth be with you  :tup

And to you as well! I think it's been a weird six months for Star Wars fans, but at the end of the day, I will always cherish my once-a-year marathon of the original trilogy. It allows for me to reconnect with my childhood in a way that is hard to replicate elsewhere. And also... Lightsabers. They're pretty cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on May 11, 2018, 10:10:41 AM
First reactions to Solo are rather positive so far!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on May 11, 2018, 10:13:28 AM
First reactions to Solo are rather positive so far!

Indeed! Minus the first act, which I've read (in most reviews) is not great, but that it picks up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 24, 2018, 09:59:47 AM
Anyone else going to see ‘Solo’ tonight? I’m taking the kiddos to an 8:30 show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on May 24, 2018, 12:10:21 PM
Saw it last night. Agree the beginning is slow but it picks up. It is what it is, nothing great but not horrible.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on May 24, 2018, 12:18:01 PM
When people say the first half is slow is that bad thing? Sometimes I actually like character development which some people consider slow. Or is it slow as in boring/poorly paced?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on May 24, 2018, 12:25:54 PM
kind of a mix of all that .for me it just dragged.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on May 24, 2018, 12:34:58 PM
I'm going Saturday evening with my kids.  The wife took a pass.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on May 24, 2018, 08:38:23 PM
jingle.son saw it with friends and just got in.  Said it was just a smidge above 'ok'.  I'll probably go see it Tuesday, jingle.son isn't sure he wants/needs to see it a 2nd time.  So I might be going .... wait for it ....

Solo.  :neverusethis
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 24, 2018, 10:20:24 PM
Just got back, I thought it was good. It was fun and entertaining. Kids loved it and I bought that was a young Han and young Lando.

It didn’t redefine anything by any means nor did it stand out as some ‘all time great’ but I’d see it again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on May 25, 2018, 05:16:25 AM
I liked it as well. Definitely the worst of the four Disney Star Wars films, but it was still good. I went in with low expectations and it exceeded those. If it does we'll financially I fully expect a Han Solo Trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on May 25, 2018, 06:44:17 AM
I've heard mostly positive things. Though it will be awhile before I get to see it.

Sounds like there will be an Obi-Wan movie that takes place before Episode 4 and Bobba Fett movie. I'm hoping Disney has the balls to make a rated R Bobba Fett movie that is dark and gritty.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 07:36:25 AM
I'm curious as to how the re-introduction of Darth Maul will incorporate into future films....if it does at all. Or if it was just thrown in there to make sure a SW film had a light saber fire up? He had his metal legs so this film took place some time after Clone Wars.....and obviously prior to ANH. Could he be used in the Obi Wan spin off or if they do a Boba Fett one?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 25, 2018, 07:41:11 AM


HOLY FUCK! The one time I read a spoiler on this forum!

I've got to see this movie now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on May 25, 2018, 08:01:14 AM
I read the full plot summary this morning, since making it to a theater is pretty much impossible for me now.  It seems like everything I'd want from a story about Han Solo.  I'm looking forward to renting it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 08:12:39 AM


HOLY FUCK! The one time I read a spoiler on this forum!

I've got to see this movie now.

Aww man....sorry. I was hoping the small font wouldn't be too enticing. However, I don't think that will ruin the film for you as what I eluded to is a very small....yet cool....part of the film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 25, 2018, 08:15:41 AM


HOLY FUCK! The one time I read a spoiler on this forum!

I've got to see this movie now.

Aww man....sorry. I was hoping the small font wouldn't be too enticing. However, I don't think that will ruin the film for you as what I eluded to is a very small....yet cool....part of the film.

No need to apologize. I know what small font means, and 99 out of 100 times I scroll right past it... but I said to myself "There's nothing happening in Solo that I would be pissed about it being spoiled".  That'll teach me!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 08:16:55 AM
I read the full plot summary this morning, since making it to a theater is pretty much impossible for me now.  It seems like everything I'd want from a story about Han Solo.  I'm looking forward to renting it.

My 10 year old said it was his favorite SW film that he's seen recently......as far as R1 and TLJ. He really liked it.

I think the 'lowered expectations' and lack of massive hype and over thought fan theories really helps this film just be a good....fun, movie. Alden Ehrenreich did a pretty good job of portraying Han Solo. He was believable and that was my largest concern going in but I think he got it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on May 25, 2018, 09:47:01 AM
I thought Ehrenreich did a pretty good job. I totally bought him as a younger Han who is still building up that confidence and swagger he has in ANH.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on May 25, 2018, 11:51:27 AM
Agreed. Ehrenreich was an excellent young Han. However, it took a moment for me to get settled with him as Han.

With Donald Glover as Lando, that wasn’t the case. He hit the ground running the moment he’s on screen!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 12:03:35 PM
Agreed. Ehrenreich was an excellent young Han. However, it took a moment for me to get settled with him as Han.

With Donald Glover as Lando, that wasn’t the case. He hit the ground running the moment he’s on screen!

Agreed. After Ehrenreich nailed a couple mannerisms once he met up with Emily Clark it started to settle in.

But with Glover as Lando.....even before we see him as you hear his voice it sounded like Billy Dee Williams...same tone....same dialect mannerisms. It was uncanny.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on May 25, 2018, 02:25:49 PM
I’ll most likely be going to see it tomorrow night with the kids. I think “lowered expectations” is the key for me. I’m not expecting to be blown away, but if it’s a good fun adventure  then that’s a result.

No spoilers, but for those who have seen it, do you think there’s enough scope for more movies with the same cast? I read that Ehrenreich has signed on for 3 movies, but maybe that’s just standard practice these days.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
No spoilers, but for those who have seen it, do you think there’s enough scope for more movies with the same cast? I read that Ehrenreich has signed on for 3 movies, but maybe that’s just standard practice these days.

I would say 'yes'.....merely because unlike 'Rouge One' and the main series......this movie really didn't have anything that impacted the 'main' storyline of what we know of the SW universe other than revealing how Han and Chewie met....and how they obtained the Falcon (which we already knew)  It really was just a 'run of the mill' action/adventure movie and it worked. They did a good enough job with the injection of a character or two to where they could explore some particular loose ends should they choose....but it's not mandatory IMO.

I could see a future 'Solo' movie or two where you're just seeing Han and Chewie as they build their legacy so to speak.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Ninjabait on May 25, 2018, 04:29:03 PM


HOLY FUCK! The one time I read a spoiler on this forum!

I've got to see this movie now.

No kidding! I was barely interested in this movie, but reading that DEFINITELY piqued my interest. I probably still won't see it in theaters, but I'll definitely get it rent it comes out on DVD/steaming now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on May 26, 2018, 04:49:04 PM
I took the kids to see it tonight. Yeah, pretty good, once it gets going. The first 15 mins or so are a bit clunky, especially the dialogue, but it settles down.

Characters were decent - Beckett, Qira and Dryden Vos (sp. ?) served their purposes and were given enough to do. Donald Glover was great as Lando, I just wish we had’ve seen a bit more of him.

Han and Chewie’s introduction worked well, and the dynamic between was good. Fair play to Alden Ehrenreich - I definitely don’t think he has the charm and charisma of Harrison Ford (who does?), but he did a decent job with the character.

Oh, and *that* cameo. I’m glad I didn’t read the tiny letters further up this thread. Initially, I’m not really sure it was a good idea, but I’ll take some time to process it.

All things considered, not wonderful, but decent, and definitely not the train wreck it could have been.

And to answer my own question from before: yes, I think there’s enough to build on for another movie or two.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Skeever on May 26, 2018, 11:15:12 PM
I've more or less "liked" all the Star Wars movies to date (yes, ALL), but this was the first that just completely underwhelmed.

I just felt nothing, at the end. No joy, no curiosity, no sadness, nothing at all. Feels like so much great lore was squandered on a movie where the filming just got out of control. They should have pushed it back, because it wasn't ready, and they wasted a lot of potential as well as a great cast on a below average movie.

10/10s
ESB
ANH

8 or 9/10s
TLJ
ROTJ
TFA

7/10s
ROTS
RO

6/10s
TPM

5/10s
AOTC

4/10s
SOLO
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MetalJunkie on May 26, 2018, 11:39:43 PM
I've more or less "liked" all the Star Wars movies to date (yes, ALL), but this was the first that just completely underwhelmed.
You seem to be in the minority. 7.1 on imdb, 71% on rottentomatoes, and everyone I've talked to/seen it with loves it so far. I liked it better than Rogue One, Last Jedi, and all the prequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on May 27, 2018, 08:30:54 AM
So it sounds like Solo is not doing particularly well at the box office despite decent reviews and pretty much everyone I've heard thinking it was good. I'll be curious how this plays out for future Solo sequels, which were clearly planned.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Skeever on May 27, 2018, 09:23:02 AM
I've more or less "liked" all the Star Wars movies to date (yes, ALL), but this was the first that just completely underwhelmed.
You seem to be in the minority. 7.1 on imdb, 71% on rottentomatoes, and everyone I've talked to/seen it with loves it so far. I liked it better than Rogue One, Last Jedi, and all the prequels.

The audience score on Rotten Tomatoes is 58% so...

It seems just as divisive as the Last Jedi without the insane critical praise TLJ got.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on May 27, 2018, 11:23:47 AM
Saw Solo today, it was pretty much what I expected!

It was fun! Ehrenreich did to Han Solo, pretty much exactly what Chris Pine did to Kirk, he was good. Glover was fantastic just as I expected!

The much talked about cameo, felt a little forced imo. Although It technically makes sense in the grand scheme of things, with he's other appearances in the animated shows etc.

7/10 for me. It's pretty remarkable that the movie was not pushed back, considering the production issues. It felt like a complete movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Podaar on May 27, 2018, 01:17:50 PM
I really enjoyed Solo a lot. A very fun movie and I think it's the first Ron Howard directed movie that enjoyed in quite a while.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Ninjabait on May 27, 2018, 07:03:42 PM
Haven't seen Solo yet, but here'd be my ranking of the different Star Wars movies:

4.5/5ish:
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith

4/5ish:
A New Hope

3.5/5ish
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

imo Rogue One is seriously underrated.

So it sounds like Solo is not doing particularly well at the box office despite decent reviews and pretty much everyone I've heard thinking it was good. I'll be curious how this plays out for future Solo sequels, which were clearly planned.

Well, keep in mind that it has to compete with the tail end of Infinity War (which is STILL crushing almost everything a month later), as well as Deadpool 2. It got released at a really terrible time tbh and word of mouth hasn't kicked in yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on May 28, 2018, 07:06:10 AM
I thought the Solo movie was great.  I didn't like Rogue One when I first saw it (I think it's decent now but in my SW rankings it's still at the bottom).  Didn't like The Last Jedi (now I like it, although it's in my lower half of SW rankings).

Without spoiling anything, I thought they did a really good job with the story.  There were some things I'd assumed would happen in the film and they did it in a way that was really nice.  And the cameo was great.

Can't wait to see it again, but will probably wait for it to come out on video now.

My current ranking (take the Solo rank with grain of salt since I've only seen it once):

New Hope
Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
Empire Strikes Back
Solo
Revenge of the Sith
Last Jedi
Attack of the Clones
Phantom Menace
Rogue One
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on May 29, 2018, 08:18:38 AM
I plan on seeing Solo but I'm not surprised at the numbers. I said before that they made a mistake releasing in May. They should have pushed it to the fall when there was less competition and was farther away from The Last Jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 29, 2018, 08:33:14 AM
I plan on seeing Solo but I'm not surprised at the numbers. I said before that they made a mistake releasing in May. They should have pushed it to the fall when there was less competition and was farther away from The Last Jedi.

Yeah....that has always been a curious decision. I wonder if they just chose to do that so there'd be more time between Solo and Ep. 9....maybe help 'build' anticipation for that one? Who knows. All I know is that Solo was a pretty solid effort and enjoyable movie and it's a bummer the numbers aren't there for it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on May 29, 2018, 08:48:25 AM
Going to see it today, I have zero expectations and am just going for some good old 'pew pew pew' fun, so I expect to leave happy. I also wonder at the release date, they had to know Infinity War would be killing it for a while, with Deadpool to boot.




Also, saw this on FB, and had to share...

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/33892847_10155313660065759_5509695664918888448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=256b873b278f62de27d114bb7fe7cfb6&oe=5BBC8D69)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on May 29, 2018, 08:51:33 AM
Yeah....that has always been a curious decision. I wonder if they just chose to do that so there'd be more time between Solo and Ep. 9....maybe help 'build' anticipation for that one? Who knows. All I know is that Solo was a pretty solid effort and enjoyable movie and it's a bummer the numbers aren't there for it.

I think this was the primary factor:

Star Wars: A New Hope:   May 20, 1977

Solo: A Star Wars Story:   May 20, 2018


The Friday release date lined up nicely, 41 years later.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on May 29, 2018, 08:56:44 AM
Ahhh, that makes some sense.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 29, 2018, 11:14:05 AM
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on May 29, 2018, 11:18:14 AM
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

100% agree.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on May 29, 2018, 11:54:48 AM
I saw Solo on Saturday.  I was underwhelmed.  Not bad, but I think my overall impression is that this was an origin story that really didn't need to be told.  I also felt like the movie was fairly generic, in the sense that the story didn't feel like it could only have been about Han Solo.  Change Chewbacca and the Falcon to some other sidekick and ship, and this could have be just any other space story.  I was also confused by big surprise toward the end because I haven't seen either Clone Wars or Rebels.  Maybe I'll get into those some day, but I'm going to be somewhat unhappy if they start pulling stuff for the moves from the "extended universe" (or whatever the proper term is).  Maybe I'll feel differently about this movie if there are sequels, but right now, I wouldn't rank this terribly highly.

By the way, if coinciding with the release date of ANH was really "the primary factor" in deciding when to release this movie, that's just nuts.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: King Postwhore on May 29, 2018, 12:25:56 PM
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

Like the new Muppets movie coming out Gary?! :lol  Have you seen the trailer?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on May 29, 2018, 12:40:45 PM
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

Disagree with you on this one..

We definitely don't need an rated R Star Wars movie. A little bit darker, sure. But not rated R.

Rated R Star Wars goes against the original vision of Lucas, who has said multiple times over the years, that Star Wars is a kids movie first and foremost.

Like I said, a little darker is fine but not hard R.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 29, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

Disagree with you on this one..

We definitely don't need an rated R Star Wars movie. A little bit darker, sure. But not rated R.

Rated R Star Wars goes against the original vision of Lucas, who has said multiple times over the years, that Star Wars is a kids movie first and foremost.

Like I said, a little darker is fine but not hard R.

Maybe not a 'hard R'.....but I'm thinking something more gritty than R1. Just a change of pace and different take. I get that the original vision was a kids movie but given how saturated the SW market is now and is going to continue to be you have to start thinking about using different approaches on some of these movies. They can't all be pillow fights and tickle wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on May 29, 2018, 01:19:36 PM
They can't all be pillow fights and tickle wars.

Back in the 90s, I read a bunch of Star Wars novels (which I guess no longer officially exist).  I remember the Thrawn novels being REALLY good (and would make great movies), but there was one (don't remember the name) that centered around the discovery that Han Solo was actually the "King of Corellia."  I don't remember the plot, but I thought back to that plot when the new Solo film opened on Corellia.  The other thing I recall was that C3PO made up a song that went something like, "Han Solo; what a man, Solo."  I assume this was before Han and Leia married and was designed to incline her towards Han, but it was SO ham-handed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on May 29, 2018, 03:58:34 PM
Just got out of Solo. Pretty much what I expected, entertaining in a way only a Star Wars movie can be, predictable with a few surprises (hard not to be predictable when you know exactly where the hero is supposed to end up), but nothing earth shattering. Did enjoy the cameo, though it confused the shit out of me until a little google search showed it was possible. Doubt I'll see it again until it comes out on video.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MetalJunkie on May 31, 2018, 10:32:47 PM
I've more or less "liked" all the Star Wars movies to date (yes, ALL), but this was the first that just completely underwhelmed.
You seem to be in the minority. 7.1 on imdb, 71% on rottentomatoes, and everyone I've talked to/seen it with loves it so far. I liked it better than Rogue One, Last Jedi, and all the prequels.

The audience score on Rotten Tomatoes is 58% so...

It seems just as divisive as the Last Jedi without the insane critical praise TLJ got.
It's up to 63. Seems this movie started out low and moved UP in ratings. I think everyone voted before seeing it, then people who liked it started weighing in to bring the average up. It started out with a mid 6 on imdb.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on June 01, 2018, 07:36:39 AM
I still plan on seeing this but I've not heard any really negative reviews from people who have seen it. I think the poor numbers are attributed to poor scheduling on Disney's end. There was no need to release this in such a crowded time at the box office. I bet it would have done way better in the fall or even December. It's not like Disney is hurting after Avengers and they have Incredibles 2 and Ant Man and the Wasp coming soon. I bet it actually does pretty well over the weekend.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on June 02, 2018, 01:43:49 PM
I think it’s a mix of both scheduling AND marketing. We got the first teaser for Solo only a few months ago during the Superbowl. What made the previous Disney era films so successful was building that anticipation. The trailer release during Celebration in a hall with thousands of Star Wars fans, and then another one a few months after. The music choices that evoked nostalgia also included both Leia’s and Rey’s theme. They were able to strategically stretch it out nearly flawlessy...until Solo because it was released 5 months after The Last Jedi.

I think the firing of Lord and Miller, Colon Travorrow, and also Josh Trank with the Boba Fett movie messed up Disney’s strategy. If I remember correctly, Episode 9 was suppose to start filming last year for a 2018 release, The Last Jedi was suppose to have a May 2017 release, and Solo was suppose to be December 2018.

This is where im in agreement with Kristian Harloff over at Collider. Kathleen Kennedy is a terrific producer, but isn’t the Kevin Feige type of storyteller these films need if we are going to start getting two films a year. And this where I’d like to see Dave Filoni take the reigns of that role and guide these movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on June 02, 2018, 02:34:05 PM
I was also confused by big surprise toward the end because I haven't seen either Clone Wars or Rebels.  Maybe I'll get into those some day, but I'm going to be somewhat unhappy if they start pulling stuff for the moves from the "extended universe" (or whatever the proper term is).
Just to clarify that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't "extended universe", they're official canon as far as I know. Other than the movies, I think they're only other canon products.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: axeman90210 on June 02, 2018, 07:52:14 PM
Caught Solo last night, and I'm not sure if lowered expectations played into it but I came out pretty happy with it. Donald Glover was definitely the highlight, though I quite enjoyed Paul Bettany's role as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on June 04, 2018, 07:39:43 AM

SPOLIERS


Saw Solo on Friday and I feel like I need to see it again to form a proper opinion. I enjoyed it and it was definitely not a bad film, but I still feel like it's my least favorite Star Wars film after one viewing. The whole story just seemed unnecessary. It was basically a two hour story showing how Han met Chewie and Lando. There were good action scenes and had it's funny moments but it just felt off a bit. Disney would have been better off making this move all about Quira. I think fans are ready for NEW stories with NEW characters. Rogue One was great and successful. There are plenty of character cameos that could be used like in Rogue One and Rebels. I hope after episode 9 this is the direction they go. I could be down for Bobba Fett if it's a dark hard PG-13 or R and Obi-Wan would be good ONLY if Ewan Mcgregor returns.

Honestly, I'm much more interested in what could be a followup film. I'd love to see Quira go to Dathomir with Maul and see her turn full on evil. Solo could have a small role or maybe even have this merge into the Bobba Fett film.

Disney is kicking themselves in the ass over this one though. I bet they double their profits if it releases in December. They'll still get a ton of money once it's released on blu-ray/digital but I'm guessing a direct sequel is not going to happen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 04, 2018, 10:36:46 AM
I was also confused by big surprise toward the end because I haven't seen either Clone Wars or Rebels.  Maybe I'll get into those some day, but I'm going to be somewhat unhappy if they start pulling stuff for the moves from the "extended universe" (or whatever the proper term is).
Just to clarify that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't "extended universe", they're official canon as far as I know. Other than the movies, I think they're only other canon products.

"Canon"..."extended universe"...whatever.  While I understand what Disney did in terms of decreeing these cartoon series to be "canon" -- thereby technically making them fair game to draw from for the movies -- I'm guessing that a strong majority of otherwise devout Star Wars fans (like me) have never seen a single second of any of these cartoons.  That becomes a big problem when they pull something from the cartoons that appears to be complete nonsense to someone who has only seen the movies.  I saw Solo on 5/25, and my wife (who has also never seen anything other than the movies) saw it last Thursday.  She had a different interpretation of the scene under discussion, and, when I explained to her what was actually going on (based on research I did after seeing it myself), she thought it was completely B.S. and has now basically sworn off further Disney Star Wars product.

How much of this supposed "canon" do I need to digest for future movies to make sense?  Apparently there's two separate "Clone Wars" series (25 and 121 episodes) and something called "Rebels" (75 episodes) and something coming later this year called "Resistance"?  Are all of these things "canon" that I'll need to watch on the off chance that some future movie won't make sense if I don't?

This isn't yet a problem for me, but the need to have pre-existing knowledge from thousands of comic books contributed in large part to my quick loss of interest in the various Marvel/DC movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on June 04, 2018, 11:23:11 AM
This isn't yet a problem for me, but the need to have pre-existing knowledge from thousands of comic books contributed in large part to my quick loss of interest in the various Marvel/DC movies.

Says who?  I don't read comics at all and I can enjoy the movies just fine.  Do I miss little easter eggs in the movie that a comic reader would notice?  Sure?  Does it make the movie worse for me?  Not at all.  They're fantastic films, and not watching them because I don't have time to read EVERY comic book associated with the stories is extremely silly.  Just watch them and enjoy them for what they are.

I don't watch any other Star Wars shows aside from the main films.  Maybe the Solo cameo scene would confuse me, since the last I've seen of that character was very definitive in preventing them from coming back, but the internet is fully available and ready for me to figure out how and why they are back.

It is entirely possible to not consume 100% of the "canon" materials from a franchise and still enjoy watching the films.  That's what I do and it works out well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 04, 2018, 12:36:22 PM
This isn't yet a problem for me, but the need to have pre-existing knowledge from thousands of comic books contributed in large part to my quick loss of interest in the various Marvel/DC movies.

Says who?

Says me.  Since my comments that you quoted are exclusively about my personal enjoyment of Star Wars movies and my lack of enjoyment of the various superhero movies, my opinions are the only ones that matter.  I cannot, of course, speak for anyone else.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 04, 2018, 01:03:34 PM
I think it's a bummer that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't as 'well known' as the movies because there are some really cool characters in them. As Bosk and others have pointed out anytime I mention a spin off concerning any of those characters.....they use basically your (pg1067) point of view as the perfect example of why they won't work. Not enough fans 'know' about CW's or Rebels....which would make those movies a tough sell. Which is unfortunate because there's a ton of potential there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 04, 2018, 01:56:21 PM
I think it's a bummer that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't as 'well known' as the movies because there are some really cool characters in them. As Bosk and others have pointed out anytime I mention a spin off concerning any of those characters.....they use basically your (pg1067) point of view as the perfect example of why they won't work. Not enough fans 'know' about CW's or Rebels....which would make those movies a tough sell. Which is unfortunate because there's a ton of potential there.

It would be one thing if they took something from one of the Cartoons and put it in a movie with enough explanation for it to make sense.  The problem is putting something in a movie (Solo) that makes absolutely no sense based on the existing movies.  From what I've read, the explanation of what we're alluding to seems awfully far-fetched, and that's my wife's point of view.  Maybe I'll try out the Clone Wars over the summer while none of my regular prime time shows are active.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on June 04, 2018, 02:03:57 PM
I assume that Solo 2 would have done some explaining of Maul and how he is still alive since even Disney is smart enough to realize most people don't watch the animated tv shows. I viewed the reveal of Maul being a WTF moment that would be further explained in future movies. I think it's unlikely at this point Solo 2 ever gets made but who knows. Though a movie with Maul and Ki'ra being badass gangsters that we love to hate would be kind of interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 04, 2018, 02:04:33 PM
Maybe I'll try out the Clone Wars over the summer while none of my regular prime time shows are active.

It's a pretty cool show. I'd say 80% of it is worth it. They throw in episodes here and there that are duds but all in all it's neat. And, they're only like 22 minutes long each so you can jam out a few in the same amount of time if you were watching a movie. The best thing about Clone Wars is the fact you get to see Anakin in action as a full on Jedi and warrior prior to him turning to the Dark Side.

I'm half way through Season 3 of Rebels and it's about the same. There are some cool episodes then some that are just 'filler'.


But I totally get where you and your wife are coming from.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on June 04, 2018, 02:25:33 PM
The best thing about Clone Wars is the fact you get to see Anakin in action as a full on Jedi and warrior prior to him turning to the Dark Side.

I would say similar things about the way a lot of the characters (Obi-Wan, Dooku, Grievous) are handled.  Taken together with the PT, it really does flesh out the PT and make those films "better" and smooth over some of the problems.  It still feels somewhat reconned.  But it does help. 

@pg1067, not sure what Marvel TV shows, if any, you have followed.  But I would compare it somewhat with Agents of SHIELD.  It provides a lot of backstory and universe expanding with what is going on in the Marvel films, but isn't essential viewing for any of them.  On the other hand, you have TV shows like Daredevil, and Jessica Jones, etc. that are MUCH more stand-alone--at least, in terms of not really being tied into the films much at all.  The Clone Wars is in the vein of AOS.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 04, 2018, 04:09:40 PM
@pg1067, not sure what Marvel TV shows, if any, you have followed.  But I would compare it somewhat with Agents of SHIELD.  It provides a lot of backstory and universe expanding with what is going on in the Marvel films, but isn't essential viewing for any of them.  On the other hand, you have TV shows like Daredevil, and Jessica Jones, etc. that are MUCH more stand-alone--at least, in terms of not really being tied into the films much at all.  The Clone Wars is in the vein of AOS.

Let's put it this way:  according to Wikipedia, there are 19 movies to date in the "Marvel Cinematic Universe."  I believe I have seen 11 or 12 of those, with the last being Civil War.  I am familiar that some TV shows exist, but I've never watched any of them.

Part of my reluctance with the Star Wars cartoon series is that I didn't think much of the Clone Wars movie.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on June 04, 2018, 04:39:23 PM
Just for clarification, are you talking about The Clone Wars animated movie or Attack of the Clones?  The series is much better than at least the first two films of the prequel trilogy, and perhaps better than the third (depending on who you ask).  I don't have a really clear recollection of the quality of the animated Clone Wars film, but seem to recall that it felt kind of like a "warmup" for the series.  It was decent, but not great.  And like a lot of series, it took a little while to get going and get its feet.  But once it got going, I felt it was pretty good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 04, 2018, 05:09:46 PM
Just for clarification, are you talking about The Clone Wars animated movie or Attack of the Clones?

The former (although I didn't think much of Attack of the Clones either).


I don't have a really clear recollection of the quality of the animated Clone Wars film, but seem to recall that it felt kind of like a "warmup" for the series.  It was decent, but not great.  And like a lot of series, it took a little while to get going and get its feet.  But once it got going, I felt it was pretty good.

I would say the animated movie was decent at best.  I don't remember it well either, but what I do remember is that it felt a bit ham-handed and the female jedi apprentice was annoying.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on June 04, 2018, 05:18:34 PM
I just looked up the plot synopsis to refresh my memory.  Yeah, it wasn't very good.  I forgot that that was the baby Jabba episode.  And in fairness, I think there are episodes of TCW series that are of that quality.  But they are few and far between, especially once you get a few episodes in and it finds its feet.  The vast majority are a lot better than that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: PowerSlave on June 04, 2018, 05:47:16 PM
I seen the movie last night. It appears that my opinion is vastly different than most people. I thought it was easily one of the best movies in the series. I would rank it around 4th or 5th.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on June 04, 2018, 07:13:23 PM
I just realized, in The Empire Strikes Back, when C-3PO says "I don't know where your ship learned to communicate, but it has the most particular dialect"....he was absolutely referring to L3  :omg:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on June 05, 2018, 07:41:29 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that The Clone Wars series easily made Episode I and Episode II better. There are a few dud episodes as mentioned but on the whole it totally worth checking out. Same goes for Rebels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 05, 2018, 08:12:29 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that The Clone Wars series easily made Episode I and Episode II better. There are a few dud episodes as mentioned but on the whole it totally worth checking out. Same goes for Rebels.

Yeah, I can agree.....a bit. I still don't like Ep. I and II all that much but at least Clone Wars 'helped' those movies out.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 09, 2018, 04:53:06 AM
kathleen kennedy might be leaving

https://movieweb.com/kathleen-kennedy-leaving-lucasfilm-star-wars/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 13, 2018, 10:27:57 AM
I just looked up the plot synopsis to refresh my memory.  Yeah, it wasn't very good.  I forgot that that was the baby Jabba episode.  And in fairness, I think there are episodes of TCW series that are of that quality.  But they are few and far between, especially once you get a few episodes in and it finds its feet.  The vast majority are a lot better than that.

I started watching The Clone Wars series a few days ago and am six episodes in.  The first episode was really bad.  It felt like the writer was trying to insert "Star Warsy" phrases at every opportunity and thought that to put the predicate of the sentence at the beginning is the only thing needed to write dialog for Yoda.  I almost gave up.  It's improving.  Although Ahsoka is still fairly annoying, they've managed to make Anakin into something other than a whiny, sand-hating bitch.  I found a chart titled "So you want to watch The Clone Wars but don't want to watch every episode."  I'll watch all of it, but I will be sure to pay a bit more attention to the "key" episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 15, 2018, 03:31:06 PM
Just watched solo. I enjoyed it quite a bit

I really loved Woody Harrelson's character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: noxon on June 15, 2018, 06:01:44 PM
Just to clarify that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't "extended universe", they're official canon as far as I know. Other than the movies, I think they're only other canon products.

Clone Wars was the only non-movie product created before the disney acquisition that is considered canon. But everything produced after is canon too. That accounts for at least 30 books, and 400 comics (as released by Marvel), and Rebels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on June 15, 2018, 11:44:53 PM
Finally saw Solo.


Meh. I'd give it a C+ or so.

The main dude playing Han was good. Lando was great. In fact, most of the characters were good. The directing was mostly good as well. But the writing was just REALLY weak. I saw everything coming a mile away, and a ton of it made me cringe.

I know it's from the dude who wrote Empire, but this felt like a completely heartless and soulless movie. It's sad. But yea, not sure I'll even buy this on blu ray. Probably only better than Episodes II and III.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: T-ski on June 17, 2018, 06:19:13 PM
my kid took me to Solo for Fathers Day.

every time I saw Alden Ehrenreich I kept seeing a mix of a young Dennis Quaid and Bill Hader.  Movie was fun but pretty much paint by numbers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on June 20, 2018, 02:59:44 PM
Collider is reporting that LucasFilm is putting A Star Wars Story spin-offs on hold

https://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/

The article says that the rumored Obi-Wan movie was in pre-production, and because of this decision, has been ultimately shut-down. Same with James Mangold Boba Fett film.

That does not mean LucasFilm won't be doing Star Wars Stories or will not revisit Obi-Wan/Boba Felt in the future. It just means at this point in time, the focus is on Episode 9 and the Rian Johnson trilogy.

In my opinion, this is a good thing. As the article states, the Star Wars Story films haven't exactly been produced smoothly. Josh Trank being fired and his Boba Fett movie being cancelled. Rogue One's reshoots. Solo's directors firing and extensive reshoots with Ron Howard. I think with a better plan for these films going forward, I think there will be a better reward and merit. 



Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on June 20, 2018, 05:31:07 PM
If anything should be put on hold it’s Rian Johnson’s movies. Make that permanently too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on June 21, 2018, 12:38:32 AM
Collider is reporting that LucasFilm is putting A Star Wars Story spin-offs on hold

https://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/

The article says that the rumored Obi-Wan movie was in pre-production, and because of this decision, has been ultimately shut-down. Same with James Mangold Boba Fett film.

That does not mean LucasFilm won't be doing Star Wars Stories or will not revisit Obi-Wan/Boba Felt in the future. It just means at this point in time, the focus is on Episode 9 and the Rian Johnson trilogy.

In my opinion, this is a good thing. As the article states, the Star Wars Story films haven't exactly been produced smoothly. Josh Trank being fired and his Boba Fett movie being cancelled. Rogue One's reshoots. Solo's directors firing and extensive reshoots with Ron Howard. I think with a better plan for these films going forward, I think there will be a better reward and merit.

Assuming that this is true and not just a clickbait from Collider, this is a good thing.

Looking at the numbers, R1 and Solo didn't do as well as the new trilogy movies. So it makes business sense.

Hopefully they have realized that multiple SW movies a year, is a recipe for disaster. Return to releasing one movie a year, or every two years. They can build up the hype for each movie better that way. And good thing IMO that the Rian Johnson trilogy is still happening. I liked TLJ, and I'm interested to see what he does with a blank canvas.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on June 21, 2018, 02:01:37 AM
If it's right, I can understand the decision to put the spin off movies on hold, but I think there would still be a reasonable amount of interest in an Obi-Wan movie. Solo was a bit of a risk, to introduce a brand new actor into an iconic role. Any potential Obi-Wan movie won't have that same risk, assuming Ewan has got the part already, but the challenge will be to create a story that's worth telling.

I think if they are taking time to focus on quality, rather than churning out a movie every year or so, then that's gotta be a good thing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on June 21, 2018, 06:38:49 AM
I'd love to see a continuation of the Solo story based on Q'ira and her interaction with Maul. Solo doesn't even need to be in it. My opinion is the same with the Marvel films. Make as many as possible as long as they are good. Solo, while unnecessary, was good and I still believe the weak turn out was mostly due to the release date.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on June 21, 2018, 07:02:29 AM
Not upset the slightest about throwing the spin-off movies in the trash.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on June 21, 2018, 11:04:53 AM
Hopefully they have realized that multiple SW movies a year, is a recipe for disaster. Return to releasing one movie a year, or every two years. They can build up the hype for each movie better that way. An

But why?  If they're good movies, why can't they make more than one/year or 2 years?  Marvel seems to have figured out how to do it.  The hype around BP and IW was immense, and they were only 2.5 months apart.  Both took in a shit-ton of money.

The franchise's problem isn't source material or quantity.  It's the movie-making process, execution, and resulting quality.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on June 21, 2018, 11:10:03 AM
Hopefully they have realized that multiple SW movies a year, is a recipe for disaster. Return to releasing one movie a year, or every two years. They can build up the hype for each movie better that way. An

But why?  If they're good movies, why can't they make more than one/year or 2 years?  Marvel seems to have figured out how to do it.  The hype around BP and IW was immense, and they were only 2.5 months apart.  Both took in a shit-ton of money.

The franchise's problem isn't source material or quantity.  It's the movie-making process, execution, and resulting quality.

This is so dead on right.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on June 21, 2018, 11:22:56 AM
My feelings are conflicted.

Part of me is like "The more Star Wars, the better!"

But there's also a part of me that says Star Wars is incredibly special, that I feel like 2 or 3 Star Wars films a year might take that speciality away.

Marvel Studios can get away with it because there's been a build up towards a certain story arc and you have to introduce all these characters and there's also actor contracts to be considered as well. There's a streamline that the casual movie goer can follow.

I don't think it can be like that for Star Wars. The casual movie goer was already confused with the Timeline jumps between the saga films and R1/Solo...doing 2 or 3 Star Wars movies a year with a different timeline will make it more confusing for people who aren't into these movies like us!

I think if they are taking time to focus on quality, rather than churning out a movie every year or so, then that's gotta be a good thing.

Agreed. Be safer than sorry. And again, they've had so many production problems for all the Star Wars Story movies, they need to take a step back for a moment and gauge the situation.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on June 21, 2018, 11:36:00 AM
The thing that Marvel/Disney now does so well is that they have a visionary in Kevin Feige. The man is brilliant. Sure there have been less than great movies such a Dark world etc. But for  the most part Feige has created an unprecedented volume of films with different directors.

Think about it, Jon Favreau basically started it, Russo Bros have taken it to a new level,  James Gunn has done wonders.

That is what is amazing about Infinity. The Russo Bros. took all of the actors/characters from various movies and seamlessly put them in an iconic film that works on all levels
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on June 21, 2018, 11:41:35 AM
Think about it, Disney has it down, wether you like them or not. They have acquired a monster universe (no pun intended). Which is a bit suprising that they had a brain fart on Solo. Disney as a company in all their ventures, parks, movies, hotels etc. pay attention to details.

Bob Iger who runs Disney knows what he is doing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on June 21, 2018, 11:52:42 AM
About the quoted portion above... I thought there was only one major Star Wars film a year? The Force Awakens was 2015, Rogue One was 2016, Last Jedi was 2017, Solo was 2018. Marvel cranks out 3-4 every year, for several years running.

I have a friend who couldn't be happier about the side films being tossed out even thought he enjoyed Rogue One, but he thinks they're ruining the original stories with episodes 7 and 8. I thought Rogue One was incredibly boring and I don't plan on seeing Solo, and was disappointed with much of The Last Jedi, so I don't understand what they're doing in Star Wars land that they're messing things up so badly (just my opinion). I guess I should do some reading on all that behind the scenes problems plaguing these films, because with such a rich lore from which they could adapt countless stories and worlds, I'm really waiting for them to do something truly new and focus on a completely different aspect of the Star Wars universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on June 21, 2018, 02:13:48 PM
Agreed with the point above. I’m not really saying no to all future Star Wars movies, I just don’t care about a Death Star plan origin movie, or a Han Solo origin movie, or a Yoda origin movie, or a Obi-Wan spin-off movie, or a Boba Fett spin-off movie, or a ’young Aragorn’ TV-show. I don’t care. I’d much rather they pick something new from the vast universe they now have access to. That’s why I’m still on board with the sequel trilogy, they’re advancing the universe, not retconning it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on June 25, 2018, 08:49:42 AM
Collider is reporting that LucasFilm is putting A Star Wars Story spin-offs on hold

https://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/

The article says that the rumored Obi-Wan movie was in pre-production, and because of this decision, has been ultimately shut-down. Same with James Mangold Boba Fett film.

That does not mean LucasFilm won't be doing Star Wars Stories or will not revisit Obi-Wan/Boba Felt in the future. It just means at this point in time, the focus is on Episode 9 and the Rian Johnson trilogy.

In my opinion, this is a good thing. As the article states, the Star Wars Story films haven't exactly been produced smoothly. Josh Trank being fired and his Boba Fett movie being cancelled. Rogue One's reshoots. Solo's directors firing and extensive reshoots with Ron Howard. I think with a better plan for these films going forward, I think there will be a better reward and merit.

Yeah, I think that is a good thing as well.  I agree with the points about Marvel being able to do it.  But for a lot of reasons, Star Wars isn't Marvel. 

The one thing I will push back on in this post, however, is the R1 reshoots.  That was a very typical occurrence.  It's just that for most films, we don't hear about it.  The way the news of the reshoots was released appears to have really created a false narrative about what was going on. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Skeever on June 25, 2018, 09:11:23 AM
I think the main series is still going well, but now does seem to be a good time to pump the breaks on a lot of the "expanded" universe stuff. As others noted, Star Wars is NOT Marvel. I don't think Star Wars benefits from the Marvel-like approach the Solo strongly moved the series into, i.e., movies that all neatly tie-in together with each other and the main films.

And it doesn't need to. Star Wars is a great universe. I've heard it described as a "sandbox" where various types of stories can be told. They can do Star Wars movies that take place 1000 years before or after the OT, for all I'm concerned. The sheer breadth of the universe is what makes it impressive. What is less impressive is the current approach of taking the existing stories and characters we know about and filling in the granular details as much as they possibly can.  Star Was has had great characters but IMO the characters are secondary to the massive scale of the universe which is always the more interesting focus.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on June 25, 2018, 05:36:01 PM
What is less impressive is the current approach of taking the existing stories and characters we know about and filling in the granular details as much as they possibly can. Star Was has had great characters but IMO the characters are secondary to the massive scale of the universe which is always the more interesting focus. 

Interesting thought I totally agree with. We know Han won the Falcon from Lando, and that history they share informs their relationship, and fleshes out their dymanic in Ep5. And that's really all we need to know. There is no need, desire, or benefit to go in to how it all went down. The fact that it happened, is addressed, and that the characters act appropriately is what is most important.

This may be a bad example, I haven't seen Solo.

Hell we could apply this line of thinking to Anakin and Eps 1-3. Of course with that there was an opportunity to craft a truly original and emotional story arc on the backdrop of a new era of the SW universe we've never seen before. But alas....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 11, 2018, 09:21:05 AM
Finally finished Rebels. All in all I thought it was a cool series. The last two episodes were certainly interesting being how Ezra 'saved' Ahsoka and then the finale where Ezra and Thrawn's fate were left in limbo kind of. Until I read that the showrunner confirmed they both are indeed alive.

What I'm not excited about at all is the next series....Resistance I think they are calling it? Anyway, seems like a cool concept but I cannot get past the way they are animating it....in that 'anime' style. I know it's a cartoon and all but the cool thing about Clone Wars and Rebels was that although it was a cartoon there were still some cool visuals. From what I've seen of the style they're going for with Resistance it looks WAY too cartoony and silly for me to have any interest in watching it at all. I'd prefer them to go the other direction and make it as realistic as possible.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on July 19, 2018, 11:24:24 PM
THE CLONE WARS IS BACK!!!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on July 20, 2018, 12:43:46 AM
Pretty exciting to get twelve new episodes of Clone Wars!

I was fine with the "ending" we got back in the day, but it's great that they get to properly finish it!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on July 20, 2018, 07:01:20 AM
Yes! Very excited to have a proper ending for an amazing series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 20, 2018, 01:22:03 PM
Yes! Very excited to have a proper ending for an amazing series.

Yep. Gonna be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on July 28, 2018, 07:05:03 AM
Cast for Episode IX got unveiled this morning!

All the usual suspects are back:

Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Mark Hamill, Anthony Daniels, Lupita Nyong’o, Domhnall Gleeson, Kelly Marie Tran, Joonas Suotamo and Billie Lourd.

New cast members include:

Naomi Ackie (Lady Macbeth), Richard E Grant (Logan, Game of Thrones, Downton Abbey) and Keri Russell (Mission Impossible 3)

Also returning is the one and only Billy Dee as Lando! What is most interesting, is the fact that Carrie Fisher will be back. She will supposedly make a return via some manipulated, deleted footage from The Force Awakens. No recasting or CGI. That will be pretty interesting to see.
It's also great that Luke will return to give some force ghost advice to Rey. Notably absent are Benicio Del Toro, and Andy Serkis. So all the theories about Snoke's resurrection can be put to rest. He is dead.

Pretty interesting cast!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on July 29, 2018, 07:04:56 AM
Kinda bummed that Del Toro's character isn't coming back.  Honestly, he was the most interesting new character from TFA, and more interesting (to me) than some of the existing characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 07, 2018, 07:13:02 AM
Cast for Episode IX got unveiled this morning!

All the usual suspects are back:

Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Mark Hamill, Anthony Daniels, Lupita Nyong’o, Domhnall Gleeson, Kelly Marie Tran, Joonas Suotamo and Billie Lourd.

New cast members include:

Naomi Ackie (Lady Macbeth), Richard E Grant (Logan, Game of Thrones, Downton Abbey) and Keri Russell (Mission Impossible 3)

Also returning is the one and only Billy Dee as Lando! What is most interesting, is the fact that Carrie Fisher will be back. She will supposedly make a return via some manipulated, deleted footage from The Force Awakens. No recasting or CGI. That will be pretty interesting to see.
It's also great that Luke will return to give some force ghost advice to Rey. Notably absent are Benicio Del Toro, and Andy Serkis. So all the theories about Snoke's resurrection can be put to rest. He is dead.

Pretty interesting cast!

I heard about this last week. Interesting stuff, indeed. The possibilities for what they do with Ep. IX are endless. While I usually avoid doing this kind of thing, I hope that Luke has a meaningful role to play. The fact that he is in the main cast list makes me think he will. Either way, I'm sure I will be very excited come December 2019!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 07, 2018, 04:07:52 PM
Also returning is the one and only Billy Dee as Lando...

Carrie Fisher will be back...

Luke will return...

Way to move the franchise forward, fellas. Staing in Ep 9 we have from Eps 4-6 a mid-carder, a character whose actress passed away, and a character who was killed off.

At least Snoke, the most boring, uninteresting villain in film history is gone. Wait... forgot about General Hux. Make that the second most boring, uninteresting villain in film history
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 07, 2018, 04:38:30 PM
Wow.  It's like you are a homeless person and Star Wars is a downtown Seattle sidewalk.  You just can't help crapping all over it, can you?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 07, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Bad analogy. If I was homeless and the SW franchise was a Seattle sidewalk, I would be camping out on one, setting up a tent mansion and inviting all my homeless acquaintances to move here and join me for all the handouts and non-existent law enforcement.

The homeless use the alleys, parks, and green spaces for their excrement.

On topic, I don't have a good way to articulate why I don't care for the Eps 7 and 8 and possibly 9. I was as big of a SW fan as a kid could be growing up in the early 80s. Empire was my first time at a drive in (though I barely remember it). I had a clipping from the paper with the movie times in my scrap book. I was as excited for Ep 1 as I have ever been or may ever be for a movie. It was ultimately disappointing, but that might have been mitigated had I not knew a ton about the movie going in. I enjoyed Eps 2 and 3 at the time, and would still find enjoyment in them if I popped them in the DVD player now. I still get wrapped up in the mythos and am not bothered by the shortcomings in the writing and dialogue.

I didn't feel that mythos with Eps 7 and 8. I enjoyed them in the theater, but just as middle of the road action films. I just didn't care about the story as much I would have liked. I did quite enjoy Rogue One, though I saw it late at night when I was really tired.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 07, 2018, 05:09:15 PM
Wow.  It's like you are a homeless person and Star Wars is a downtown Seattle sidewalk.  You just can't help crapping all over it, can you?

Actually, it's more like Cool Chris is Cool Chris, and SW is like homeless people in Seattle.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 10, 2018, 10:49:45 AM
This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens..... I couldn't be any less excited for Episode 9.....the magic is gone. They're making movies for the sake of making movies now.

I also heard that they might make 2 movies out of episode 9....... do they not know what an "episode" is?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 10, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens..... I couldn't be any less excited for Episode 9.....the magic is gone. They're making movies for the sake of making movies now.

I also heard that they might make 2 movies out of episode 9....... do they not know what an "episode" is?

In fairness, while the corporate overlords at Disney and Lucasfilm are probably just making movies for the almighty dollar, the people on the ground who are putting the films together seem to really enjoy it. Everyone from JJ to Rian to Kasdan loves Star Wars. That doesn't mean the films can't stink, but I don't think they stink because of a lack of care. I'm not totally sure how Rian thought The Last Jedi was the best possible film for the series, but his heart was in the right place. Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 10, 2018, 11:12:31 AM
This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens.....

I've always seen this as a big issue when different directors get assigned to do different movies in a series. For better or worse (let's not get in to it here) Eps 1-3 felt like a series because the same team worked on all three, from the director, writer, and producer to the sound guys on down. Eps 4-6 had different directors and producers and developing technology, but it was still Lucas at the top so the vision didn't change. hen different directors come on to a series they (rightly or wrongly) they give their film their vision, and if it doesn't mesh with the preceding movies, it can make the series feel disjointed.

I also heard that they might make 2 movies out of episode 9

It's the formula now. See Twilight/Harry Potter/Hunger Games.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on August 10, 2018, 11:16:09 AM
This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens..... I couldn't be any less excited for Episode 9.....the magic is gone. They're making movies for the sake of making movies now.

I also heard that they might make 2 movies out of episode 9....... do they not know what an "episode" is?

Care to share where you heard about splitting episode 9 because this is the first I'm hearing of it.

And I couldn't disagree more with the rest of the post. It has never been a better time to be Star Wars fan. You can not like the movies but I don't think anyone can question the level of passion thatRyan Johnson and JJ Abrams have about Star Wars. Even Solo was a good film hampered by an abysmal marketing strategy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 10, 2018, 11:24:10 AM
Care to share where you heard about splitting episode 9 because this is the first I'm hearing of it.

I saw an article about that yesterday.  It said that it was being considered because of the amount of content, but not that a final decision had been made.  The dilemma apparently is that with the story they want to tell, they have more than enough footage for one film.  So they are either going to have to make massive cuts, which could impact the quality of the story, or spread it out into two films, which could dilute the quality of the story. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 10, 2018, 11:32:21 AM
So they are either going to have to make massive cuts, which could impact the quality of the story, or spread it out into two films, which could dilute the quality of the story. 

Could being the appropriate word. It could also mean there is too much (potentially unnecessary or uninteresting) material and the script could use a good trimming.

My examples are not good analogies because they are based on novels as their source material. But Deathly Hallows isn't any longer or more dense than its three predecessors. Mockingjay is equivalent in size and narrative to Hunger Games/Catching Fire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 10, 2018, 11:52:58 AM
So they are either going to have to make massive cuts, which could impact the quality of the story, or spread it out into two films, which could dilute the quality of the story. 

Could being the appropriate word. It could also mean there is too much (potentially unnecessary or uninteresting) material and the script could use a good trimming.

My examples are not good analogies because they are based on novels as their source material. But Deathly Hallows isn't any longer or more dense than its three predecessors. Mockingjay is equivalent in size and narrative to Hunger Games/Catching Fire.

Oh, of course.  We obviously don't know anything about the existing content and how necessary it is or isn't.  I'm just paraphrasing what the article said is all.

I didn't read the Harry Potter books, but the two films for the finale felt bloated and unnecessary.  Mockingjay, on the other hand, felt well-paced spread over two films.  For splitting a chapter in a film's series into multiple films, I don't have strong feelings one way or the other.  It just depends on whether or not it is executed effectively.  If they give us Ep. IX in one film and it works well, great.  If they give it to us in two films and it works well, great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on August 10, 2018, 11:55:55 AM
Bosk you nailed it. I'm all for what makes for the best movie/story. Of course if they split it you'll have a contingent of "fans" shaking their fist at ol' greedy Disney. IF they split it I'd call part 1 Episode 9 and part two Episode 10. Having a 10 film story feels just as good as three separate trilogies. Of course they have already started filming so you'd think they would have made a decision by now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 10, 2018, 02:09:32 PM
Bosk you nailed it. I'm all for what makes for the best movie/story. Of course if they split it you'll have a contingent of "fans" shaking their fist at ol' greedy Disney. IF they split it I'd call part 1 Episode 9 and part two Episode 10. Having a 10 film story feels just as good as three separate trilogies. Of course they have already started filming so you'd think they would have made a decision by now.

It's funny how the number ten has a certain ring to it, doesn't it? I agree that ten films feels like a nice, round number. Then again, Russell Westbrook won the MVP because he averaged a nice, round triple-double, which now seems kind of silly in hindsight, so maybe nine is better. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 10, 2018, 04:00:01 PM
Nine episodes is kinda cool because it's "a trilogy of trilogies".  Ten would also be cool.

Just as long as they don't do it as two films and call them Episode IX, Part 1 and Episode IX, Part 2.  That would be dumb.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 10, 2018, 04:03:58 PM
Just as long as they don't do it as two films and call them Episode IX, Part 1 and Episode IX, Part 2.  That would be dumb.

If it is two films, I fully expect them to do it that way.  And I'm not sure what is so "dumb" about that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 10, 2018, 04:22:25 PM
It's dumb because the films are not based on books or any other existing medium, and thus are not already split into defined episodes.  In episodic storytelling, an episode is just the next installment of the story.  The next episode is Episode IX.  If there's one after that, it's Episode X.

The Harry Potter films and the Hunger Games films were based on books that were adapted to film.  Since they split the final film of each series, and stories already had names, then it made perfect sense to call the parts Part 1 and Part 2.  But the next Star Wars episode is just the next episode.  If it's split into two films, they will be the next two episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 10, 2018, 04:45:27 PM
Overthinking it, dude.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 10, 2018, 05:19:52 PM
I think there's also a psychological element to it. Since the early 80's, it's been described as 9 movies. At the time, people thought all we'd get is 3 of those nine. Then in the early 2000's, it was a 2nd trilogy. Still sticking to the idea of a final 9. Then, in 2018......with almost 40 years of 9 being in the social zeitgeist, to have it be 10, is....psychologically....unsettling. It's a matter of priming and changing that information so late in the game. If it hadn't been considered 3 sets of 3, thus 9, for so many decades, it wouldn't matter.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: countoftuscany42 on August 10, 2018, 09:02:18 PM
Overthinking it, dude.
But that’s the point though? The “Episode” only really exists to help differentiate the films especially in context to the timeline of the story. Each film is an episode, it just becomes redundant if you add in another part to an episode. You might as well just list them all as Star Wars: The Phantom Menace, etc up to Star Wars: (Episode IX title) parts 1 and 2 without using Episode in the title. If an Episode can be two films, using Episode to differentiate them makes no sense when there are already more specific titles the movies are known by
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 10, 2018, 09:13:17 PM
This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens..... I couldn't be any less excited for Episode 9.....the magic is gone. They're making movies for the sake of making movies now.

I also heard that they might make 2 movies out of episode 9....... do they not know what an "episode" is?

I completely agree. I really enjoyed 7 and thought it was excellent, but think 8 is hot steaming dogshit, So I could care less about 9.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 11, 2018, 09:12:06 PM
I’ve thoroughly enjoyed both 7 and 8. I thought JJ did a great job with 7 considering the pressure behind that release.....and with every watch of TLJ it gets better and better in my eyes. Outside of being a good SW movie I think it’s just a really good movie in general.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on August 13, 2018, 03:44:56 PM
I disliked TLJ when I saw it the first time. Put a lot of thought in, liked it a whole lot better the second time, and again the third time. That said, I still don't "like" how certain things happened. I can nitpick three things in particular - how they handled Luke (there was a better, and more fitting way to do it, IMO), Rose (not needed), and "Super Leia." But again, I still enjoy it.

Frankly, for my money, the best Star Wars movie ever made (after Empire) is Rogue One. I am an absolute Rogue One fanboy. Brilliant war movie set within the Star Wars universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 13, 2018, 04:53:23 PM
Rogue one I enjoyed a lot as well. I though Mads did a fantastic job, and Krenick was a solid villain. Absolutely LOVED the final space battle. Just a cool, different kind of SW movie. Despite not having any Jedis or anything, I felt like it really delivered.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on August 14, 2018, 02:19:45 AM
For me, Rogue One has been the best of the new batch. Maybe that's because it's the one that felt most like the OT. One criticism I'd have is that there are just too many characters to keep up with and care about, but apart from that it's a really good fun adventure.

Solo was enjoyable, but forgettable. (The more I think about that cameo at the end, it felt wrong and out of place. Just an excuse to leave a trailing thread to stitch in to some future movie.)

I enjoyed TFA, as I saw it as a kind of resetting of what SW should be, so I was reasonably forgiving of the some of the copy and paste criticisms that have been directed at it. I was always going into TLJ with higher expectations, but unfortunately it was a big disappointment for me.

I'm sorry to say that TLJ has dampened my enthusiasm for 9. I'm sure I'll bring the kids to see it when it comes out, but the eagerness has gone, and I certainly won't be going to the midnight show like we did for TLJ.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on August 14, 2018, 06:13:42 AM
I liked both Rogue One and TLJ when I first saw them.

I like TLJ more every time I watch it, where as I dislike R1 after every subsequent rewatch to the point where I won't even bother anymore.

TLJ is very well acted, has likable characters and even though the structure of the movie is a bit messy I enjoy the adventure they are on. Cinematography is also great, and I'm behind the changes that it brings to the Skywalker saga, however controversial.

R1 has a great score, and beautiful cinematography but I have a lot of problems with it. Acting is wooden, half the characters look like they are falling asleep in the middle of the scene. They could have chosen to focus on a smaller group of characters, and properly develop them instead of shoving in too many main characters, to the point where some of them have only a few lines of dialogue.

Vader's cameo was unnecessary, although it was great to hear James Earl Jones do the voice one last time. What I'm trying to say is that it's a movie that doesn't need to exist. You are not missing anything if you choose to skip it. Pretty much like Solo, which is a slightly better film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 14, 2018, 06:17:34 AM
I really don't get how TLJ can piss off fans so much that they'e almost no longer interested in Star Wars, when the prequels, which range from god-awful at the worst to passable at the best didn't drive them away. I get most of the criticisms of TLJ, and I think many of them could be very valid depending on where they go with Ep 9. But overall I liked the movie a lot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on August 14, 2018, 07:13:53 AM
I really don't get how TLJ can piss off fans so much that they'e almost no longer interested in Star Wars, when the prequels, which range from god-awful at the worst to passable at the best didn't drive them away. I get most of the criticisms of TLJ, and I think many of them could be very valid depending on where they go with Ep 9. But overall I liked the movie a lot.

That's exactly how I feel.  It's a movie - who cares if they didn't give Luke super-Jedi powers and let him kick ass on screen like we all thought he would.  I loved that it flipped the entire trilogy on its head.  "You thought TFA was a re-hash of A New Hope?  Well check this out, let's do something radical and completely original......oh, you're still going to complain?"

So yeah, there were silly things like Leia flying around in space, but in all, it was a really neat story and I loved that Luke was so human with tremendous internal conflicts and finally saying "screw it all."  I wonder if the amount of butthurt would be less if Mark Hamill had kept his mouth shut.   :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 14, 2018, 07:48:24 AM
The prequels were Star Wars. The tragedy of Anakin was a sight to behold.

The Last Jedi is a complete and total abomination. What a colossal missed opportunity.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on August 14, 2018, 01:41:09 PM
The prequels were Star Wars. The tragedy of Anakin was a sight to behold.

The Last Jedi is a complete and total abomination. What a colossal missed opportunity.

More the sight of Anakin was a tragedy to behold.

I defended the prequels for a long time, but they are just flat out poorly made in every way. TLJ wasn’t poorly written, acted, or executed....it just pissed people off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 14, 2018, 02:47:10 PM
It wasn't poorly written? A quick google search will show all the poor decisions with the writing
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 14, 2018, 04:41:37 PM
I really don't get how TLJ can piss off fans so much that they'e almost no longer interested in Star Wars, when the prequels, which range from god-awful at the worst to passable at the best didn't drive them away. I get most of the criticisms of TLJ, and I think many of them could be very valid depending on where they go with Ep 9. But overall I liked the movie a lot.

That's exactly how I feel.  It's a movie - who cares if they didn't give Luke super-Jedi powers and let him kick ass on screen like we all thought he would.  I loved that it flipped the entire trilogy on its head.  "You thought TFA was a re-hash of A New Hope?  Well check this out, let's do something radical and completely original......oh, you're still going to complain?"

So yeah, there were silly things like Leia flying around in space, but in all, it was a really neat story and I loved that Luke was so human with tremendous internal conflicts and finally saying "screw it all."  I wonder if the amount of butthurt would be less if Mark Hamill had kept his mouth shut.   :lol

Agree.  TLJ is no worse than the 3rd best of the ten Star Wars movies.  Maybe folks just want more pod racing and bitching about sand.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 14, 2018, 04:52:30 PM
Eps 1-3 is a good story told poorly. Eps 7 and 8 is a poor story told well.

Chew on that one for a bit :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 14, 2018, 05:35:17 PM
Eps 1-3 is a good story told poorly.

Yeah, for the most part, I agree.

Eps 7 and 8 is a poor story told well.

Eh, not really.  Seems like a pretty good story told pretty well, so far.  But IMO, the jury's still out until we see how it all ends up.  Too early to tell.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 14, 2018, 06:23:26 PM
That's basically the draw with Episode IX for me, now.  I'm curious to see how well things come together and Episodes VII and VIII went in such completely different directions.

I'll see it anyway, since I've seen them all and have to see how the story ends (or continues, or whatever), but while my excitement about IX is somewhat diminished by VIII, my curiosity about how JJ's gonna pull it off or not mostly makes up for it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 14, 2018, 07:05:18 PM
If JJ is listening, all I want is for Rey to wake up and walk to the shower and Patrick duffy to be standing there



(https://guidelive.imgix.net/1484068245-bobby.gif?fit=crop&crop=faces,top,right&q=50&w=400&h=300)

And its just starts right where Episode 7 left off, and let the past that is 8 die.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 14, 2018, 07:39:42 PM
I still remember that scene when it first aired.  Everybody was going "Wait... What?!"  And I just thought "Ha ha, the show was dying without him, so they brought him back, shamelessly.  The whole previous season never happened.  Astounding."  And as the episode played out, it became more and more clear that that was it.  It was just a dream, all in Whatsername's head.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 14, 2018, 07:50:25 PM
What the hell reference is that?

-Everyone on this forum under 60.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 14, 2018, 08:24:30 PM
In 1978, prime-time television got its first "nighttime soap opera".  The show was Dallas (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077000/?ref_=nv_sr_5), the story of the Ewing family, oil barons in the great state of... you guessed it... Texas.

Prior to Dallas, daytime television was dominated by talk shows, game shows, and "soap operas".  Soap operas were heavily serialized stories with lots of drama and sexual innuendo (but not too much -- this was still the 70's).  But evening belonged to half-hour sitcoms, one-hour police dramas, both strictly episodic, and movies of the week.  To have an evening show that was actually serialized was a breakthrough.  To have it be a drama with sexual innuendo was downright scandalous.  But the time was right, and Dallas was huge.  Since my parents and my girlfriend at the time were both fans, I ended up watching it one way or another.

Patrick Duffy played Bobby, the second-oldest Ewing son, and was tired of being second fiddle to Larry Hagman, the eldest son and basically the star of the show.  So he wanted out of the show, and they killed off his character.

The ratings started to tank.  Hagman's character, J.R., was awesomely evil and brutal and people loved to hate him, but Duffy was the one the ladies loved (see gif above).

So the first episode of the following season, his widow wakes up and hears someone in the shower.  What the...?  She goes into the bathroom, and there's Bobby in the shower.  He says something like "Oh, sorry I woke you up."  Widow/wife is in shock, as is the rest of television-watching America.  Bobby is alive.  The entire previous season was just a dream.  She dreamt the entire season.  It never happened.  And the show went on from there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 15, 2018, 04:12:14 AM
What the hell reference is that?

-Everyone on this forum under 60.

Dallas

Guy dies. Show goes off the rails, but then it ends with it all being a dream and everything resets. At least that's how I think it works. I wasn't alive in 86.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 15, 2018, 07:53:58 AM
Pretty sure Chris is well aware of this... he's in that age bracket.  I'm mid 40s, and I knew exactly what that was.  I think he was making a joke that most of this forum would be all "da fuq?"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 15, 2018, 07:57:27 AM
Oh, I know.  I just can't get enough Patrick Duffy. Couldn't resist a chance to bring him up  :heart


(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0439/1253/products/patrick_duffy_lg_print_grande.jpg?v=1412871871)


Eat your heart out shirtless Kylo  :-*
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 16, 2018, 02:17:34 AM
It wasn't poorly written? A quick google search will show all the poor decisions with the writing
Those kinds of article are hilarious to be honest. Always written by someone who simply didn't like something, who then takes a really pedantic and forensically critical approach which could equally be applied to most similar films.

TLJ was genuinely excellent, probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 16, 2018, 06:22:53 AM
I don't get the push to try and prove that it was objectively a bad move. You just didn't like it dude. That's OK. It's fine to not like a movie. I'm sorry if you didn't like it so much that it sours you on future Star Wars movies, but that's your problem, not Star Wars' problem. Star Wars, Marvel, DC, Harry Potter, etc will all make movies that individuals like and don't like. Only with Star Wars do fans have reactions like this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 16, 2018, 06:29:59 AM
TLJ was genuinely excellent, probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

Same here, followed by TFA.

I’ve said it before in here but, once I got over the fact Johnson didn’t take Luke’s character the way ‘I’ thought or wanted him too...or the way that had been speculated he ‘should’......then went back and watched the film a second time to watch it without any expectations.....I really started to dig the movie. Subsequent viewings just make it better and better for me.



I still don’t like force flying Leia at all.....but as far as Luke and his story and how he was handled, I think it was perfect.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 16, 2018, 07:55:16 AM
It wasn't poorly written? A quick google search will show all the poor decisions with the writing
Those kinds of article are hilarious to be honest. Always written by someone who simply didn't like something, who then takes a really pedantic and forensically critical approach which could equally be applied to most similar films.

TLJ was genuinely excellent, probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

A lot of them are hilarious and way too nit-picky. I'll grant you that. But others address serious issues with the film. And I agree with many of the points.


I don't get the push to try and prove that it was objectively a bad move. You just didn't like it dude. That's OK. It's fine to not like a movie. I'm sorry if you didn't like it so much that it sours you on future Star Wars movies, but that's your problem, not Star Wars' problem. Star Wars, Marvel, DC, Harry Potter, etc will all make movies that individuals like and don't like. Only with Star Wars do fans have reactions like this.

There are a lot of people that feel the same way that I do. Our opinions are just as valid as those who enjoyed the film. It's not like I'm trying to talk down a movie that is universally loved, such as Episode V.

I can't speak for Harry Potter, but there are plenty of people who react to Marvel films poorly, particularly when things deviate from the source material. But even then, Marvel has done nothing that can come close to being compared with Episode VIII.

Also want to note.... I'm not one of these clowns that are upset about the diversity in casting.. I'm actually all for that, and Rose was one of my favorite characters from VIII, and the trolling of the actual actors is something that I don't condone whatsoever.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 16, 2018, 08:05:57 AM
It wasn't poorly written? A quick google search will show all the poor decisions with the writing
Those kinds of article are hilarious to be honest. Always written by someone who simply didn't like something, who then takes a really pedantic and forensically critical approach which could equally be applied to most similar films.

TLJ was genuinely excellent, probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

A lot of them are hilarious and way too nit-picky. I'll grant you that. But others address serious issues with the film. And I agree with many of the points.

...

There are a lot of people that feel the same way that I do.

And that still amounts to little more than:

I don't get the push to try and prove that it was objectively a bad move. You just didn't like it dude. That's OK. It's fine to not like a movie. I'm sorry if you didn't like it so much that it sours you on future Star Wars movies, but that's your problem, not Star Wars' problem.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 16, 2018, 11:23:38 AM
I can't speak for Harry Potter, but there are plenty of people who react to Marvel films poorly, particularly when things deviate from the source material. But even then, Marvel has done nothing that can come close to being compared with Episode VIII.
I can completely understand being upset that a movie isn't true to the source material, whether its a novel or a comic or whatever. But Star Wars has no source material to be true to, so it's really not an apples to apples comparison to people who are angry at those other movies. Your opinion is certainly a valid one and I thought TLJ was far from perfect, though I enjoyed it. I just don't get the completely visceral responses people have had to TLJ. I've never seen that kind of a response to a movie before except when it deviated greatly from source material, and even then it's never seemed this bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 16, 2018, 11:47:01 AM
I can't speak for Harry Potter, but there are plenty of people who react to Marvel films poorly, particularly when things deviate from the source material. But even then, Marvel has done nothing that can come close to being compared with Episode VIII.
I can completely understand being upset that a movie isn't true to the source material, whether its a novel or a comic or whatever. But Star Wars has no source material to be true to, so it's really not an apples to apples comparison to people who are angry at those other movies. Your opinion is certainly a valid one and I thought TLJ was far from perfect, though I enjoyed it. I just don't get the completely visceral responses people have had to TLJ. I've never seen that kind of a response to a movie before except when it deviated greatly from source material, and even then it's never seemed this bad.

Well I didn't mean for it to be an apples to apples comparison.

I wanted to love TLJ. I wanted to at least like it. And it was visually stunning. But The bombs dropping in space, Leia's Mary Poppins moment, The complete mishandling of Snoke, The whole Casino planet thing and Del Toro's character, Holdo,  the 1st Order being content to slowly follow the rebels and wait till they.....run out of fuel? A "Your Mamma" Joke in a Star Wars film? Lack of lightsabre battles......

The Snoke thing is probably the worst. but I'm sure some other fn cashgrab trilogy will come along to explain him.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything. Movie's been out for like 9 months. Everyone's where they're at with it and it is what it is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 16, 2018, 11:54:07 AM
Not trying to convince anyone of anything.

Clearly.

This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens..... I couldn't be any less excited for Episode 9.....the magic is gone. They're making movies for the sake of making movies now.

:lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 16, 2018, 12:16:18 PM
I wanted to love TLJ. I wanted to at least like it. And it was visually stunning. But The bombs dropping in space, Leia's Mary Poppins moment, The complete mishandling of Snoke, The whole Casino planet thing and Del Toro's character, Holdo,  the 1st Order being content to slowly follow the rebels and wait till they.....run out of fuel? A "Your Mamma" Joke in a Star Wars film? Lack of lightsabre battles......

The Snoke thing is probably the worst. but I'm sure some other fn cashgrab trilogy will come along to explain him.

I assume the "bombs dropping in space" is a complaint about "space" being a "zero gravity" environment (which it isn't).  To the extent anyone needs their sci-fi/fantasy fiction to conform to "real world" rules of physics in order to be enjoyable, there are plausible explanations for the "bombs dropping in space."  Do people really need their fiction to explain the science?

The rest of this amounts to nothing more than "I don't like it," although I'm at a loss to understand how Snoke was "complete[ly] mishandl[ed]."  There's nothing objectively "bad" about any of it, and my biggest problem is with folks who, more than simply not liking it, feel the need to convince folks that the things they don't like are objective flaws.

As I wrote previously, IMO, TLJ is no worse than the third best of the ten Star Wars movies (or eleven if you count Clone Wars).  I would probably rank them as follows:

Empire
Star Wars
TLJ
Rogue One
RotJ
TFA
RotS
Solo
TPM
AooC

On the right day, I might put TLJ ahead of Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on August 16, 2018, 12:20:59 PM
The rest of this amounts to nothing more than "I don't like it," although I'm at a loss to understand how Snoke was "complete[ly] mishandl[ed]."  There's nothing objectively "bad" about any of it, and my biggest problem is with folks who, more than simply not liking it, feel the need to convince folks that the things they don't like are objective flaws.

I think the thing about Snoke is that they didn't reveal him to be some widely known, Expanded Universe sith lord.  Fanboys wanted to shoehorn Darth Plaegus into the story.  So by making him just this regular character (which Darth Vader and Palpatine were just regular characters in the OT until subsequent films gave them a backstory), they took away some kid's wet dream and subsequently ruined the story for them.

I like that - Vader was just the Lord of the Sith in A New Hope.  He went through two entire films and was accepted of just being a badass villain until it was revealed that he was Anakin Skywalker.  Why does everyone need Snoke to be someone else?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 16, 2018, 12:22:36 PM
The rest of this amounts to nothing more than "I don't like it," although I'm at a loss to understand how Snoke was "complete[ly] mishandl[ed]."  There's nothing objectively "bad" about any of it, and my biggest problem is with folks who, more than simply not liking it, feel the need to convince folks that the things they don't like are objective flaws.

Exactly. 

I'm still not sure how to rank it.  The casino planet storyline and how the casino "planet" was portrayed REALLY bother me.  But the rest of the movie (and even parts of that part) were close to 10/10 and right up there with or above my all-time favorites of the franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 16, 2018, 12:34:30 PM
I like that - Vader was just the Lord of the Sith in A New Hope.  He went through two entire films and was accepted of just being a badass villain until it was revealed that he was Anakin Skywalker.  Why does everyone need Snoke to be someone else?

I personally didn't need Snoke to be someone else. I did however need him to be somewhat interesting or compelling. He certainly wasn't a "badass villain" like Darth Vader. That dude blew a hole in a ship, marched through after his troops blasted anyone standing in their way, and choked to death someone who didn't give him the answer he wanted, all within the first 5 minutes of the film. I have only seen TFA/and TLJ once each, and I cannot tell you one thing Snoke did other than sit in a chair. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 16, 2018, 12:55:59 PM
I assume the "bombs dropping in space" is a complaint about "space" being a "zero gravity" environment (which it isn't).  To the extent anyone needs their sci-fi/fantasy fiction to conform to "real world" rules of physics in order to be enjoyable, there are plausible explanations for the "bombs dropping in space."  Do people really need their fiction to explain the science?
I hadn't seen that one before, but it's probably the silliest of the lot. Star Wars and indeed most sci-fi is completely not based in science fact.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 17, 2018, 06:08:47 AM
I hadn't seen that one before, but it's probably the silliest of the lot. Star Wars and indeed most sci-fi is completely not based in science fact.

Fair, but suspension of disbelief only goes so far sometimes.  In films of the style that are grounded in similar real life 'rules (humans, air, gravity) there also has to be some continuation of reality.  Spaceships - fiction; hyperspace - fiction; the Force - fiction; light-sabres - fiction; interacting with aliens - fiction.  I'm ok with all of that.  Gravity in space?  Not sure I'm ok with that.  Why did Leia need to force pull herself to the ship if there's gravity?  Surviving in space for as long as she did - why are we to assume space operates differently in this galaxy?

If this was the only problem (or at least one of a few), I could overlook it.  But there were so many small and medium sized wtf/lolpalm moments, it was like death by a thousand paper-cuts for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 17, 2018, 06:29:04 AM
Ships clearly have some sort of artificial gravity since the people in them don't float. Maybe it's strong enough to allow bombs to drop. Or maybe the bombs were propelled downwards out of the ship and not just let to free fall. Two very obvious solutions to the problem. I think people are overthinking that particular "issue".

Leia would have been propelled outward away from the artificial gravity of the ship. She would have needed to reverse that momentum, so using the Force makes sense there. And people don't die instantly in space, so the time it took may be reasonable, especially someone with at least a small amount of Force abilities. I do think it was a dumb scene though, but not because it somehow didn't fit into the laws of the Star Wars universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on August 17, 2018, 06:35:01 AM
Leia would have been propelled outward away from the artificial gravity of the ship. She would have needed to reverse that momentum, so using the Force makes sense there. And people don't die instantly in space, so the time it took may be reasonable, especially someone with at least a small amount of Force abilities. I do think it was a dumb scene though, but not because it somehow didn't fit into the laws of the Star Wars universe.

I just started watching the audio commentary from Rian Johnson, and he said that the flying Leia scene is a result of Kathleen Kennedy and a number of other people reminding him that Leia is a Skywalker.  Luke told her in ROTJ that someday she may learn to use the force, but we have yet to ever see her do anything.  So this is Leia instinctually reaching out to the force in a dire moment of need.  I don't think it had anything to do with reversing any law of physics as much as it did that she is a descendant of a family that is strong in the force and despite having zero training, it was there for her when she needed it the most.

Sure, it looks awfully silly on screen, but given that Carrie Fisher is now gone, it's nice that she got to have a moment in the film where Leia finally can use the force after being told about her lineage so long ago.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 17, 2018, 11:13:39 AM
Gravity in space?  Not sure I'm ok with that.  Why did Leia need to force pull herself to the ship if there's gravity?  Surviving in space for as long as she did - why are we to assume space operates differently in this galaxy?

Gravity exists everywhere (including "in space").  The extent of the gravitational pull between two bodies is proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to their distance from each other.  There is a gravitational pull between a human standing on Earth and the planet.  However, there is also a gravitational pull between that same human and the moon and between that human and the sun.  Obviously, the pull between the human and the sun or between the human and the moon is relatively negligible to that between the human and the Earth.  Therefore, it's not noticeable.  But it's still there.  If you're "floating" "in space," the gravitational pull between you and the various celestial bodies is more balanced.  One of the more obvious results of that is that, if an object is propelled in a particular direction, it will continue to move in that direction in that direction unless it is acted on by some other force.

If I recall correctly, the battle involving the bombs was fought relatively close to a planet.  Therefore, that planet would have exerted a gravitational pull on the bombs (albeit perhaps not a strong one).  Regardless, it is certainly plausible that the bombs were ejected in a manner such that they would "fall" in the same way that bombs fall when dropped from a plane flying at a few thousand feet over the surface of a planet.  It is also plausible that each bomb has a small propulsion system that caused it to fall in that manner.  It's also plausible that gravity "in space" works differently in the Star Wars universe (the scene in ESB when Han landed the Falcon on a tiny asteroid demonstrates that).

The point is that there are plausible explanations for many of these perceived scientific inconsistencies that no good storyteller would waste time explaining.

As far as Leia Poppins, I agree that this was one of the hokier parts of the movie, but every Star Wars film has had some degree of hokiness, and Leia's Force sensitivity has been well-established for 35+ years.  It had nothing to do with gravity; it had to do with the Force.  Did the film makers take time to tell us what (if anything) Leia had done in the X years between RotJ and TFA to learn about and control her force-based powers?  No; nor should they have done so.  One doesn't need to suspend disbelief to assume that she did that or that what happened was merely instinctual.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 17, 2018, 11:34:28 AM
To get off the topic of TLJ and it's issues, let's have some speculation for Ep. 9.

What does everyone think: Will Kylo Ren be redeemed and come back to the good side, or will he be defeated by Rey?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 17, 2018, 11:49:20 AM
What does everyone think: Will Kylo Ren be redeemed and come back to the good side, or will he be defeated by Rey?

 I guess it depends on what they've done with the character in the 'time jump' that is hinted at happening. Has he surpassed Vadar's ruthlessness? Is he just outright 'evil' to the point of you don't even want him to 'come back' to the light? IMO he kind of sealed his fate with Rey at the end of TLJ....I don't think she's going to have any interest in wanting to 'save' him....only to kill him.

Plus I'd think that despite them saying that Leia is going to be in the film I'd think that it'll be limited to a few scenes of which she dies....probably by a raid or strike led by Ren. That'll tick Rey off even more.....so, I think she'll be more interested in killing him than trying to get him to come back to the light again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 18, 2018, 06:37:37 AM
Gravity in space?  Not sure I'm ok with that.
Then why are you ok with the ludicrously unrealistic artificial gravity in the spaceships?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 19, 2018, 05:04:58 AM
Gravity in space?  Not sure I'm ok with that.
Then why are you ok with the ludicrously unrealistic artificial gravity in the spaceships?

Perhaps because we don't have a realistic point of comparison in real life.  I dunno... I've always wondered how artificial gravity would work, but not too much.  Because we know there is no gravity in space, I have a realistic point of comparison as to why the bombs shouldn't just "drop" on their own.  Maybe I'm nitpicking, but as I said, if it was just a few issues, I'd probably get over it pretty quick.  But (for me), the movie had a lot of issues I couldn't get over.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on August 19, 2018, 07:41:22 AM
The one part from the whole series that bugs me, but not enough to not enjoy the movie, is when they get off the Milennium Falcon in Empire, looking for Minochs.  I always assume the pressure and/or temperature would be an issue.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 19, 2018, 12:25:38 PM
The one part from the whole series that bugs me, but not enough to not enjoy the movie, is when they get off the Milennium Falcon in Empire, looking for Minochs.  I always assume the pressure and/or temperature would be an issue.
It would. There'd be no meaningful atmosphere on an asteroid, and certainly not enough gravity for them to just walk around like that.

Not that it matters at all, but if people are going to nitpick over the falling bombs (which could actually easily be explained by the ship pushing them downwards, meaning no need for gravity) then they should certainly nitpick over this where there is no plausible scientific explanation.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 20, 2018, 12:40:54 PM
The one part from the whole series that bugs me, but not enough to not enjoy the movie, is when they get off the Milennium Falcon in Empire, looking for Minochs.  I always assume the pressure and/or temperature would be an issue.
It would. There'd be no meaningful atmosphere on an asteroid, and certainly not enough gravity for them to just walk around like that.

Not that it matters at all, but if people are going to nitpick over the falling bombs (which could actually easily be explained by the ship pushing them downwards, meaning no need for gravity) then they should certainly nitpick over this where there is no plausible scientific explanation.

Yup.

Also, "there is no gravity in space" is a demonstrably incorrect statement.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 20, 2018, 12:47:18 PM
I would say that, if there are times when people aren't nitpicking, and times when they are, I would look at maybe why.

For instance, I can only speak for myself as a casual SW fan. I didn't care in the slightest bit about the gravity in the worm monster thing because I was so engaged with the plot, the characters, etc, that it just didn't matter. However, I did actually notice and think about the gravity of the bomb dropping moment in TLJ as well as how Rose' sister was able to so freely breathe in such an environment. At the time, I wasn't even a little engaged with the plot, the characters, etc. So the flaws stuck out to me more.

I think that's a big issue. I don't think it's fair to assume or imply some ulterior motives for people who notice and complain at times but not others. Sometimes the movies are good enough that we don't care, and sometimes they're not.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on August 20, 2018, 12:50:50 PM
So we're now debating if one's enjoyment of a story involving characters (and aliens, talking humanoid animals, and robots), that can use some magical power called 'The Force,' wield laser swords and ray-guns and participate in large space battles and interstellar travel at the speed of light, are completely and utterly hung up on whether or not the film appropriately shows how gravity might work in space?

You can suspend your belief for a bunch of crazy made up shit, but can't suspend your belief of something like bombs dropping in space? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUL7q8eyig8
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 20, 2018, 01:25:50 PM
I would say that, if there are times when people aren't nitpicking, and times when they are, I would look at maybe why.

For instance, I can only speak for myself as a casual SW fan. I didn't care in the slightest bit about the gravity in the worm monster thing because I was so engaged with the plot, the characters, etc, that it just didn't matter. However, I did actually notice and think about the gravity of the bomb dropping moment in TLJ as well as how Rose' sister was able to so freely breathe in such an environment. At the time, I wasn't even a little engaged with the plot, the characters, etc. So the flaws stuck out to me more.

I think that's a big issue. I don't think it's fair to assume or imply some ulterior motives for people who notice and complain at times but not others. Sometimes the movies are good enough that we don't care, and sometimes they're not.
But this is exactly my point.

I get that some people didn't enjoy the film as much. They can just say that. There's nothing wrong with just saying "I didn't like" it and explaining what you felt was lacking, whether that's in story terms or character or whatever.

What I find absurd is the way people also nitpick in this way to try and prove that a film is objectively inferior.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 20, 2018, 01:59:51 PM
Oh I get you, but then you'd have all the fans discussing all the things they loved, in detail, while everyone else would be relegated to "I didn't personally care for it". Seems a bit boring. There's reasons they didn't care for it.

And I don't know why they'd have to point out first that they didn't care for it. That's obvious. It's like demanding you put "In my opinion" after every statement. Obviously it's your opinion, and obviously they didn't care for it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 20, 2018, 02:10:52 PM
I think there's a big difference between saying "I didn't care for the portrayal of Luke Skywalker and it ruined the movie for me" and "it was so unrealistic that the bombs would drop in space and it ruined the movie for me". The first is a major part of the film and to me an extremely valid reason to not care for it, the second is a tiny passing moment and really shouldn't be listed high up on a list of why someone didn't like a movie. There really isn't an equivalent for the opposite opinion of liking the movie. People don't usually pick out inconsequential moments as reasons they love a movie. I can see a combination of several inconsequential moments bringing a movie down a notch or two, but not listed as a primary reason many don't like a film like it seems to be with the stupid bombs dropping.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 20, 2018, 02:20:05 PM
Oh I get you, but then you'd have all the fans discussing all the things they loved, in detail, while everyone else would be relegated to "I didn't personally care for it". Seems a bit boring. There's reasons they didn't care for it.

And I don't know why they'd have to point out first that they didn't care for it. That's obvious. It's like demanding you put "In my opinion" after every statement. Obviously it's your opinion, and obviously they didn't care for it.
I'm not sure you properly read my post (which is unusual for you, to be honest).

Of course people can talk about what they didn't like. Normally it will be down to pacing, or character, or plot, or all sorts of  things like that. People can talk about why they didn't enjoy those things. There are lots of ways that people can discuss their dislike of something (or why they like something less than another thing) that don't involve double standards.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 20, 2018, 03:14:41 PM
Oh I get you, but then you'd have all the fans discussing all the things they loved, in detail, while everyone else would be relegated to "I didn't personally care for it". Seems a bit boring. There's reasons they didn't care for it.

And I don't know why they'd have to point out first that they didn't care for it. That's obvious. It's like demanding you put "In my opinion" after every statement. Obviously it's your opinion, and obviously they didn't care for it.
I'm not sure you properly read my post (which is unusual for you, to be honest).

Of course people can talk about what they didn't like. Normally it will be down to pacing, or character, or plot, or all sorts of  things like that. People can talk about why they didn't enjoy those things. There are lots of ways that people can discuss their dislike of something (or why they like something less than another thing) that don't involve double standards.

Nope! Totally misread your post. hah. I guess it's what happens when I try to read this between therapy sessions. My bad dawg!

But I think my overall point about double standards stands. For instance, I can complain all day long how horrible the CGI was in Wonder Woman, but not complain much about it in Infinity War because the movie didn't give me a reason to care. When the end of Wonder Woman came, I was so disengaged with everything that I focused on that nonsense and then that REALLY took me out of the movie. I would be lying if I didn't include the CGI at the end as a reason I didn't like it. That doesn't mean that every instance of sub-par CGi bothers me to the same degree or that it should. Or else I'm not allowed to complain about the poor writing of Jar Jar Binks while not batting an eye at (insert whomever from the original trilogy).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 20, 2018, 08:34:50 PM
For instance, I can only speak for myself as a casual SW fan. I didn't care in the slightest bit about the gravity in the worm monster thing because I was so engaged with the plot, the characters, etc, that it just didn't matter.

Would have typed this if I could have articulated it this concisely.

Incidentally, I have been very critical of TLJ, but it never occurred to me that it could have anything to do with Space Bombs or other weird Sci-Fi movie junk. I ju
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 20, 2018, 08:39:40 PM
For instance, I can only speak for myself as a casual SW fan. I didn't care in the slightest bit about the gravity in the worm monster thing because I was so engaged with the plot, the characters, etc, that it just didn't matter.

Would have typed this if I could have articulated it this concisely.

Incidentally, I have been very critical of TLJ, but it never occurred to me that it could have anything to do with Space Bombs or other weird Sci-Fi movie junk. I ju

Oh yea, I probably should have mentioned that even though I did notice the flaw in the scene, it does not even come close to the list of complaints I have against it. Those complaints really are based around writing and so forth.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 20, 2018, 09:34:18 PM
What the hell was I writing?! Did I pass out while typing?!

"I ju....." I just swallowed some poison... I just saw Eliza Dushku walk in to the room...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Bolsters on August 20, 2018, 09:44:41 PM
Perhaps because we don't have a realistic point of comparison in real life.  I dunno... I've always wondered how artificial gravity would work, but not too much.  Because we know there is no gravity in space, I have a realistic point of comparison as to why the bombs shouldn't just "drop" on their own.
I had a thought about this.

If we accept that the bomber ship contains some form of artificial gravity, which it demonstrably does when you watch that scene, then the bombs would "drop" while inside the ship and inside the artificial gravity's field (which they are). If that artificial gravity ends at the opening of the bay doors or even a little further out if it's more of a bubble shape around the ship, when the bombs cross from the artificial gravity's area of effect into a zero-gravity environment, they would still retain their inertia and velocity, and would appear to fall in whatever direction the bottom of the ship was facing. The bombs essentially get launched in a sense, by the artificial gravity.

So if you can suspend disbelief and accept the existence of their artificial gravity technology, this is a scientifically sound way to rationalise how the bombs would drop/fall (or at least appear to do so) from the bomber to their target.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 21, 2018, 06:49:59 AM
^ Totally fair and legit.

To some of the comments from the other posts... I never try to objectively prove anything.  Entertainment is entirely 100% subjective - hence my repeated use of "TASTES!" as a response to these types of discussions.  I'm just articulating the reasons for my displeasure.  And it's not as though this one scene ruined the movie for me... there are lots of reasons I disliked the movie - this is just one example that we happened to zone in on the past page or so.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 21, 2018, 07:47:49 AM
Relevant: https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/man-complains-sci-fi-film-is-a-bit-far-fetched-20180821176455

:biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 21, 2018, 08:58:25 AM
I think that Star Wars is a good example of how good will influences our subjective opinions. If you are generally enjoying a movie or at least respect its intentions, you're more likely to let stuff go. If the movie feels off, then you're more likely to notice issues. For some people, mostly trolls, that is an intentional distinction. They might go into the movie determined to hate it or love it. However, for most people it is more subconscious.

For a number of reasons, some legitimate and some not, Star Wars has lost a lot of good will. People are noticing plot holes that they didn't notice before. Movies like Solo are deemed terrible when, at least in my opinion, they are decent films. I've seen a lot of horrific cinema in my time. Solo is not on that level.

By contrast, Marvel has a lot of good will right now, which they deserve. Kevin Feige is brilliant and runs a really tight ship. When a lesser-received film comes out like Thor 2, people just shrug and assume the next one will be better. Star Wars receives no such charity, which I think is somewhat deserved but mostly unfortunate. 90% of the people who make Star Wars movies genuinely love the property, there have just been some missteps along the way. I don't agree with the idea that Lucasfilm doesn't care about Star Wars or are just on a cash grab. I think the new films deserve a little more good will than they are getting, but again, it's all subjective.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 21, 2018, 09:40:58 AM
Respect your opinion, but disagree. No good will for the corporation pumping these movies out as fast as possible. Plenty of good will for the actors themselves and those who are well-intentioned in their involvement of the franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 21, 2018, 10:15:34 AM
But it's kind of hard to separate the two, isn't it? For example, maybe the executives at Lucasfilm just want some cold, hard cash. However, they hire a lot of very talented people to make their movies, and those people generally have good intentions.

Does that mean that the film deserves good will or ire? And perhaps in contradiction to what I said earlier, does it have to be either? Can a film be both a cash grab and a genuine attempt at art? In the case of The Last Jedi, can it be both a missed opportunity and a decent film?

I think the answer to a lot of these questions is potentially grey. However, in today's climate, everything is a 0/10 or a 10/10. I can't remember reading a single review of The Last Jedi that wasn't overwhelmingly negative or positive.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 21, 2018, 10:26:40 AM
You're right... and I didn't mean to give the impression that I was considering the fact that they're in pump out movies when judging the movies themselves. But I can't help to think that is part of the issue. Could TLJ have benefited from the traditional 3 years instead of 2? Perhaps. And with all of that said, I really liked TFA and LOVE R1.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 21, 2018, 10:30:54 AM
Could TLJ have benefited from the traditional 3 years instead of 2? Perhaps.

Outside of a couple points from what I can see the issue with TLJ with most 'fans' is the fact they didn't turn Luke into this 'great' Jedi Knight who spent the whole movie light saber dueling and kicking butt.

I personally like the way they handled his story....but admittedly 'wish' they'd have gone a different direction to fit my personal desires but when looking at the film subjectively taking my ambition out of it I like his story better that way
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 21, 2018, 10:43:38 AM
I think that Star Wars is a good example of how good will influences our subjective opinions. If you are generally enjoying a movie or at least respect its intentions, you're more likely to let stuff go. If the movie feels off, then you're more likely to notice issues. For some people, mostly trolls, that is an intentional distinction. They might go into the movie determined to hate it or love it. However, for most people it is more subconscious.

For a number of reasons, some legitimate and some not, Star Wars has lost a lot of good will. People are noticing plot holes that they didn't notice before. Movies like Solo are deemed terrible when, at least in my opinion, they are decent films. I've seen a lot of horrific cinema in my time. Solo is not on that level.

I generally agree with all of this.  However, I think there's also something to the fact that social media and discussion boards didn't exist when Eps. 4-6 were released and were still in their relative infancy when Eps. 1-3 were released.  There is simply a lot more opportunity to discuss and dissect these new movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 21, 2018, 10:44:07 AM
You're right... and I didn't mean to give the impression that I was considering the fact that they're in pump out movies when judging the movies themselves. But I can't help to think that is part of the issue. Could TLJ have benefited from the traditional 3 years instead of 2? Perhaps. And with all of that said, I really liked TFA and LOVE R1.

Amen!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 21, 2018, 11:02:55 AM
I think that Star Wars is a good example of how good will influences our subjective opinions. If you are generally enjoying a movie or at least respect its intentions, you're more likely to let stuff go. If the movie feels off, then you're more likely to notice issues. For some people, mostly trolls, that is an intentional distinction. They might go into the movie determined to hate it or love it. However, for most people it is more subconscious.

For a number of reasons, some legitimate and some not, Star Wars has lost a lot of good will. People are noticing plot holes that they didn't notice before. Movies like Solo are deemed terrible when, at least in my opinion, they are decent films. I've seen a lot of horrific cinema in my time. Solo is not on that level.

I generally agree with all of this.  However, I think there's also something to the fact that social media and discussion boards didn't exist when Eps. 4-6 were released and were still in their relative infancy when Eps. 1-3 were released.  There is simply a lot more opportunity to discuss and dissect these new movies.
I'd also add that (according to my parents anyway) a lot of people disliked Empire when it first came out, and now it's regarded by many fans as the best in the series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 21, 2018, 11:14:47 AM
I think that Star Wars is a good example of how good will influences our subjective opinions. If you are generally enjoying a movie or at least respect its intentions, you're more likely to let stuff go. If the movie feels off, then you're more likely to notice issues. For some people, mostly trolls, that is an intentional distinction. They might go into the movie determined to hate it or love it. However, for most people it is more subconscious.

For a number of reasons, some legitimate and some not, Star Wars has lost a lot of good will. People are noticing plot holes that they didn't notice before. Movies like Solo are deemed terrible when, at least in my opinion, they are decent films. I've seen a lot of horrific cinema in my time. Solo is not on that level.

I generally agree with all of this.  However, I think there's also something to the fact that social media and discussion boards didn't exist when Eps. 4-6 were released and were still in their relative infancy when Eps. 1-3 were released.  There is simply a lot more opportunity to discuss and dissect these new movies.
I'd also add that (according to my parents anyway) a lot of people disliked Empire when it first came out, and now it's regarded by many fans as the best in the series.

Can't say I remember that, but I was just shy of 10 years old when I saw Star Wars at a drive-in theater with my sister, brother-in-law, and crying >1 year old niece and only 12 1/2 years old when I saw Empire.  But yeah...a sense of nostalgia shields the original trilogy from the sort of scrutiny to which the new movies are subjected.

This brings something else to mind.  While some people went and saw Eps. 4-6 multiple times in the theater, most folks saw them only once or twice in the theaters and then didn't see them again for several years until they were released on VHS, Beta, etc.  The opportunities that now exist for folks to nit pick (and to publicize their nit picking) simply didn't exist back then.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 21, 2018, 11:31:59 AM
Random curiosity:  What is/was the oldest Star Wars home video release you own (or owned)?

This is mine (from 1992), and I still have it.

(https://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/ColBox-Boxed.jpg)

(https://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/ColBox-spread.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 21, 2018, 11:56:22 AM
Outside of a couple points from what I can see the issue with TLJ with most 'fans' is the fact they didn't turn Luke into this 'great' Jedi Knight who spent the whole movie light saber dueling and kicking butt.

On that matter, I can see why - especially for 'fogeys' - this was a big fucking deal.  The franchise spent three fucking movies (IV-VI) setting Luke up to be exactly that, and in one fell swoop, wiped that out when he tossed his light-sabre over his shoulder.  From that point, he was just a grumpy old man.

For me personally, it wasn't a *huge* deal, just a let-down that TFA had set it up for him to be the 'saviour' for Rebellion 2.0', and instantly Rian ditched that notion.. and then that took Rey - the anchor character of this trilogy - out of the primary storyline for what?? .. 1/2 of the movie?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on August 21, 2018, 11:57:58 AM
I have the same set. I believe it cost me $100 at Blockbuster Music. Yes, Blockbuster Music.

Still looks brand new.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 21, 2018, 12:12:58 PM
and then that took Rey - the anchor character of this trilogy - out of the primary storyline for what?? .. 1/2 of the movie?
For sure, it's not like the original trilogy took the anchor character out of the main storyline for half the middle movie or anything. :P

As for Luke's story, and indeed other things that appeared to be set up but got subverted (like Rey's heritage), I can appreciate that some people don't like that sort of thing. Personally I enjoy it when things are unexpected or surprising. Again back to the OT, Vader being Luke's father came entirely out of nowhere but it was brilliant and ended up hugely iconic. A lot of the OT (especially A New Hope) doesn't subvert expectations like that, and I just find it less interesting. Empire was phenomenal because (for me) it did things that were unexpected and subverted expectations. TLJ is probably my second favourite in the franchise for exactly the same reason.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 21, 2018, 12:42:48 PM
and then that took Rey - the anchor character of this trilogy - out of the primary storyline for what?? .. 1/2 of the movie?
For sure, it's not like the original trilogy took the anchor character out of the main storyline for half the middle movie or anything. :P

Touche.  I guess the difference for me is that Luke on Dagobah was a critical piece of the growth of Luke's character.  I'm still not sure I understood the growth of the Rey in that stretch with Luke.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 21, 2018, 01:08:18 PM
and then that took Rey - the anchor character of this trilogy - out of the primary storyline for what?? .. 1/2 of the movie?
For sure, it's not like the original trilogy took the anchor character out of the main storyline for half the middle movie or anything. :P

Touche.  I guess the difference for me is that Luke on Dagobah was a critical piece of the growth of Luke's character.  I'm still not sure I understood the growth of the Rey in that stretch with Luke.
I don't have a strong view either way on it yet, I mean I thought TLJ was fantastic overall, but it's part of an ongoing story and so I'll need to see how it plays out.

But yeah mainly I was being facetious. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 21, 2018, 01:08:52 PM
and then that took Rey - the anchor character of this trilogy - out of the primary storyline for what?? .. 1/2 of the movie?
For sure, it's not like the original trilogy took the anchor character out of the main storyline for half the middle movie or anything. :P

Touche.  I guess the difference for me is that Luke on Dagobah was a critical piece of the growth of Luke's character.  I'm still not sure I understood the growth of the Rey in that stretch with Luke.

It is pretty similar.  But the problem is, IMO, it is much clearer that Rey's journey takes place so quickly.  Luke's does as well, but it is less clear that he is only on Dagobah and apparently grows enough to survive a battle with Vader after only a couple of days of training.  It feels like it could possibly be longer, even though it isn't.  With Rey, we KNOW it is only a similarly short timespan because we have the space chase in the back of our minds.  This is one area where I feel like modern moving making has fallen down that could SO easily be remedied.  In TLOTR, you really FEEL the heroes' journey AS A JOURNEY because it takes so long and there are many cues that show the passage of time.  In Star Wars, the Marvel films, etc., you don't.  Everything happens almost instantaneously, and it doesn't feel genuine as a result.  I know this doesn't bother most people, but I guess it bothers me both because it is so unrealistic and because it could easily be cured just by saying that time passed, and having some cues in the film showing that time passed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 21, 2018, 01:53:18 PM
I have the same set. I believe it cost me $100 at Blockbuster Music. Yes, Blockbuster Music.

Still looks brand new.

My guess is that I got mine at Suncoast Video at a mall near where I live.  The pictures I posted are not mind (just images I found on the web).  I used to have three or four different sets of VHS tapes of the original trilogy (plus a set of DVDs).  I think I may have gotten rid of some of the VHS sets when we moved about five years ago.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 21, 2018, 08:26:38 PM
(https://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/ColBox-Boxed.jpg)

Dang, haven't seen the word "Letterbox" in forever. I remember trying to explain that to everyone and the difference between that and Pan and Scan and having to argue against "BUT IT DOESN'T FILL MY TV SCREEN"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on August 22, 2018, 10:40:28 AM

Dang, haven't seen the word "Letterbox" in forever. I remember trying to explain that to everyone and the difference between that and Pan and Scan and having to argue against "BUT IT DOESN'T FILL MY TV SCREEN"

I was one of the 'it doesn't fill my screen' idiots. Then I bought Star Trek IV on VHS and it opened with a little documentary hosted by Leonard Nimoy, as he was the director, and he explained the difference between Letterbox and Pan and Scan with split screen examples. From that moment on, I changed sides. Spock schooled me on aspect ratios.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on August 22, 2018, 03:10:56 PM

Dang, haven't seen the word "Letterbox" in forever. I remember trying to explain that to everyone and the difference between that and Pan and Scan and having to argue against "BUT IT DOESN'T FILL MY TV SCREEN"

I was one of the 'it doesn't fill my screen' idiots. Then I bought Star Trek IV on VHS and it opened with a little documentary hosted by Leonard Nimoy, as he was the director, and he explained the difference between Letterbox and Pan and Scan with split screen examples. From that moment on, I changed sides. Spock schooled me on aspect ratios.


hahaha. I did the same thing when I saw that on Star Trek IV.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 22, 2018, 05:38:26 PM
My oldest version that I have (or used to have) was the 97 special edition VHS tapes

(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780767729307-us.jpg)

Got it for christmas that year and Boy oh boy, did I watch the ever living shit out of those tapes. Good times.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 22, 2018, 06:12:03 PM
I had that too, found it recently going through some old stuff at my parents' house. But mine was silver. Is there a difference? Widescreen/P&S?

I was one of the 'it doesn't fill my screen' idiots. Then I bought Star Trek IV on VHS and it opened with a little documentary hosted by Leonard Nimoy, as he was the director, and he explained the difference between Letterbox and Pan and Scan with split screen examples. From that moment on, I changed sides. Spock schooled me on aspect ratios.

Roger Ebert was a big proponent of it early on. I remember seeing him talk about it in a very clear "Let me educate you without talking down to you" way which he was good at. The video store I frequented had a nice binder prepared with pictures and such to show to customers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 22, 2018, 06:19:10 PM
I had that too, found it recently going through some old stuff at my parents' house. But mine was silver. Is there a difference? Widescreen/P&S?


You are correct and oh man, did that question drive me nuts as a little kid. "oh, its silver. It must be better. It must have different stuff, what could it be?"  :lol   

But yeah, the silver was just wide screen, which I didn't even know what that was back in 97. We just had the full screen tv.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on August 22, 2018, 07:07:46 PM
I still got this bad boy....

(https://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/jammindude/7CFDC646-6AEC-4C39-9D14-355D913EE7D1_zps0jal4ral.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 22, 2018, 07:14:38 PM
Oh sorry, I was looking for the Star Wars thread, not sure how I accidentally clicked on the Old Fogey's thread.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on August 22, 2018, 07:49:00 PM
Oh sorry, I was looking for the Star Wars thread, not sure how I accidentally clicked on the Old Fogey's thread.

Ahhhh yes, I remember when I first saw your grandmother.   It was in a mosh pit at an Alice in Chains concert in the summer of ought two.....

[glazed look of nostalgia]   Ahhhh, she was a cute little filly.  She was wearing her nipple ring....you see, that was the style at the time...   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 22, 2018, 09:08:15 PM
I had that version jammindude has - might still be at my parents' house unless they purged it as part of the "You are 40 we aren't keeping all your shit in our house no more."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 23, 2018, 10:53:08 AM
My oldest version that I have (or used to have) was the 97 special edition VHS tapes

(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780767729307-us.jpg)

Got it for christmas that year and Boy oh boy, did I watch the ever living shit out of those tapes. Good times.

I had that too -- the silver one, which I think was the letterbox version, whereas the gold version was "pan and scan."  I think I got rid of the VHS version when I got the DVD version.


I still got this bad boy....

(https://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/jammindude/7CFDC646-6AEC-4C39-9D14-355D913EE7D1_zps0jal4ral.jpg)

I think I had that one too.  It was released in 1995 -- in between the "Special Letterbox Collector's Edition" (1992) and the "Special Editions" (1997)."  I'm not sure if I still have it somewhere or, if not, why I got rid of it.  If nothing else, the box is cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on August 23, 2018, 12:26:55 PM
My oldest version that I have (or used to have) was the 97 special edition VHS tapes

(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780767729307-us.jpg)

Got it for christmas that year and Boy oh boy, did I watch the ever living shit out of those tapes. Good times.

Same here, I had these Gold VHS tapes.  Got many plays with them back as a kid.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 23, 2018, 12:46:36 PM
Would be curious to know just how much $$$ Lucas made off of re-re-releasing the OT those multiple times?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 23, 2018, 01:24:35 PM
Would be curious to know just how much $$$ Lucas made off of re-re-releasing the OT those multiple times?

I believe the technical term is "shitload."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 23, 2018, 01:59:25 PM
Yes, but metric or English standard?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 23, 2018, 03:16:10 PM
Yes, but metric or English standard?

The term my 16yo son used to use was "metric poop-ton."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 24, 2018, 05:31:36 AM
So I watched The Last Jedi last night for the first time since the theaters. The funny thing is, I get every single criticism of the movie that I've read about. I don't love the way they went with Luke for the first half of the movie. There a ton of little nit picky things that I would prefer were done differently. But that being said, I still really love this movie. The highs really overcome the lows for me. I almost wish they had gone even farther with the unexpected twists. Killing Snope I thought was great. I almost wish Rey had joined Kylo Ren or that he had turned good, something to take the unexpected even farther. Really looking forward to seeing how Ep. 9 wraps it all up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on August 24, 2018, 07:38:23 AM
I rewatched Rogue One for the first time since seeing it in theaters.  I was pretty harsh on it after my first viewing.  I rank it pretty close to the bottom of all SW movies.  However, I definitely enjoyed it more on a second watch.  My biggest criticisms were towards the characters being uninteresting, as in, I never really grew to care about them.  I still feel this way, there's really very little build up to any of the characters storylines to make me feel very emotional when the end comes for them all.  But I will say, putting that aside, I defintiely just enjoyed the entertainment factor of the movie a lot more.  Maybe because I understood the characters more so I wasn't so focuses on trying to care, and more about just enjoying the action scenes which I think were all well done.  The storyline itself isn't really bad either and the tie in to episode 1 is great.  Overall, I think it's better than I first thought, but still would say it's one of my least favorites based on the strengths of the rest of the movies (episodes 1 and 2 are probably below it and I haven't seen Solo, yet).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on September 05, 2018, 10:28:17 AM
Re: Rogue One

I think I mentioned a few times how much I love the film. It has probably ascended to be my favorite Star Wars film (I know, I know, maybe 1a and 1b with Empire Strikes Back). I dove into the extended universe related to the film recently, reading Catalyst by James Luceno, which set the stage for Rogue One. Wow, talk about the PERFECT intro to the movie. I wish I would have read it before watching Rogue One, honestly. I would have loved it even more. I picked up a couple of other novels (one that tells Jyn's story, and one that is a short story telling the tale of Baze and Chirrut) that I'll start next. And then read the novel adaptation of Rogue One itself (which apparently fills in some more gaps).

I just find the whole Rogue One series to be really compelling (I ended up buying up a ton of toys and collectables for the collection as well during the TRU blowout). Just great stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on September 05, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
It is so hard to find time to read things like that nowadays, but that all sounds pretty cool.  I might have to take the plunge at some point since R1 is also MY favorite SW film (the ending STILL makes me mad, but oh well).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on September 05, 2018, 10:53:18 AM
It is so hard to find time to read things like that nowadays, but that all sounds pretty cool.  I might have to take the plunge at some point since R1 is also MY favorite SW film (the ending STILL makes me mad, but oh well).

The Vader/Leia thing? I don't think we ever talked about it. I sorta like it because it ties it directly in.

Catalyst is absolutely worth your time to read, bosk1. No-brainer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on September 05, 2018, 11:06:47 AM
It is so hard to find time to read things like that nowadays, but that all sounds pretty cool.  I might have to take the plunge at some point since R1 is also MY favorite SW film (the ending STILL makes me mad, but oh well).

The Vader/Leia thing? I don't think we ever talked about it. I sorta like it because it ties it directly in.

I must be misremembering, but I thought we had talked about that fairly recently.  I LOVE the Vader part.  The Leia thing was great to tie into ANH, in principle.  In execution, it was stupid.  Her ship should not have been there.  It just shouldn't.  There is no way one of your most important non-military leaders is present for a Hail Mary mission that is likely a suicide mission.  Seriously.  There is just NO WAY that makes any sense.  The way it SHOULD have gone down is, they get the plans and communicate with Leia's ship that they are going to rendezvous with her ship a short distance away, and Vader intercepts that transmission and shows up at the rendezvous point.  Having that happen AT SCARIF was not believable and annoyed me.  Related to that, the R2/C3PO cameo on Yavin IV was a bit silly.  I'm okay with them being in the film as well.  But it should have been on the ship, not on Yavin IV. 

The other thing that bothered me a bit was the fact that X-Wings can travel vast distances in a matter of seconds to launch an assault, but that is a gripe of modern Star Wars in general and not limited to this film.  I wish they would just allow a believable lapse in time for things rather than making everything instantaneous.

Anyhow, those are fairly minor gripes.  But they also would have been SO easy to fix to make the film more believable without adding any additional run time.

Catalyst is absolutely worth your time to read, bosk1. No-brainer.

Yeah, maybe I'll just start there then.  Thanks for the gateway drug book suggestion, my pusher.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on September 05, 2018, 11:14:04 AM

Yeah, maybe I'll just start there then.  Thanks for the gateway drug book suggestion, my pusher.  :lol

Any time. Catalyst tells the story of the Ersos and their relationship with Krennic - where it started and how it evolved. Just a super read.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on September 22, 2018, 03:45:55 PM
Finally got around to see Solo. I've read that it didn't do that good and I was half resigned to a suckage, but it was quite good after all!

Sure, the mandatory "origin story" beats were there: meeting Chewie, Lando, getting the Millennium Falcon.... but they could have been much more on the nose. Some callbacks were clever, like  "I have a very good feeling about this" for a change, and "I hate you" - "I know" with Lando. And come on, the scene where Han and Chewie first sit together at the commands with the Star Wars theme playing was awesome, fan service sure, but great fan service!

There were also some things I didn't anticipate, like the pirate mercenaries being led by a young girl, and Q'ira going to the dark side so to speak (What was up with Not-Darth Maul? they regretted killing him off so quickly in Episode I and now they want a lookalike for future spinoffs?). The presence of a love interest not to be seen in later movies had "Tragic death" written all over her, but they were unpredictable. Can you imagine how cheesy would have been if she had died and as she lay dying she'd tell Han "go on with your life, you'll find someone else" with him replying something like "where will I find another smart princess like you?".... I like how they handled her character.

Not a masterpiece but not a sucky movie either. And also we find out that the famous (and scienticially incorrect) "Kessel run in 12 parsecs" thing was not entirely accurated and tha Han cheated with the calculations, hehe!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on September 23, 2018, 06:39:31 AM
Can you imagine how cheesy would have been if she had died and as she lay dying she'd tell Han "go on with your life, you'll find someone else" with him replying something like "where will I find another smart princess like you?"....

That would have been gloriously cheesy!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: eric42434224 on September 23, 2018, 10:43:46 AM
Finally got around to see Solo. I've read that it didn't do that good and I was half resigned to a suckage, but it was quite good after all!

Sure, the mandatory "origin story" beats were there: meeting Chewie, Lando, getting the Millennium Falcon.... but they could have been much more on the nose. Some callbacks were clever, like  "I have a very good feeling about this" for a change, and "I hate you" - "I know" with Lando. And come on, the scene where Han and Chewie first sit together at the commands with the Star Wars theme playing was awesome, fan service sure, but great fan service!

There were also some things I didn't anticipate, like the pirate mercenaries being led by a young girl, and Q'ira going to the dark side so to speak (What was up with Not-Darth Maul? they regretted killing him off so quickly in Episode I and now they want a lookalike for future spinoffs?). The presence of a love interest not to be seen in later movies had "Tragic death" written all over her, but they were unpredictable. Can you imagine how cheesy would have been if she had died and as she lay dying she'd tell Han "go on with your life, you'll find someone else" with him replying something like "where will I find another smart princess like you?".... I like how they handled her character.

Not a masterpiece but not a sucky movie either. And also we find out that the famous (and scienticially incorrect) "Kessel run in 12 parsecs" thing was not entirely accurated and tha Han cheated with the calculations, hehe!

That was Darth Maul.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on September 23, 2018, 11:23:32 AM
And how they decided he survived his fall in a bottomless chasm with the minor injury of being cut in half?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on September 23, 2018, 11:26:31 AM
And how they decided he survived his fall in a bottomless chasm with the minor injury of being cut in half?

I'm thinking they should make a team of everyone who has fallen thousands of feet to their death but somehow survived.

Get Palpatine in there and, hell...let's even give Han Solo some metal legs and bring him back too!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on September 23, 2018, 12:47:18 PM
I wonder if they'll ever dare make a "young Palpatine" movie, showing his origins. I mean, his pre-origins before the Prequel Trilogy.

Think of it, the Prequel Trilogy was all about a very criticized and maligned Darth Vader origin story.... while actually hidden within it was an awesome origin story for Palpatine. Come on, I dare anyone to say that Palpatine (and in great part thanks to Ian McDiarmid) wasn't one of the best things about the prequel.... his rise to power was simply awesome to behold.

Now that I think of it, what was the reaction, for those of you being fans back in the day, to see the actor portraying the Emperor being cast as a senator of the republic? was it a dead giveaway that George Lucas made no mystery about or they thought that new fans would just go along with it not being acquainted with each and every single actor of the original trilogy? I mean, if you watch The Phantom Menace alone Palpatine flies really under the radar, it's since Attack of the Clones that is starting to become obvious he's the one under Darth Sidious' cloak as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on September 24, 2018, 03:03:37 AM
I thought Palpatine's development through the prequels was fine, and the scene in the opera where Palpy is luring Anakin to the dark side was well done, really dark and brooding. It was very evident that he was using Anakin's grief, together with some vague promises of dark side abilities to turn the screw.

Though, where it fell off a cliff for me is his actual transformation into the Emperor. There's some very OTT acting ("Powahh, unlimited powahhh!!"  :lol), then he produces a lightsaber and starts bouncing about with Yoda. Just far too much for me. I didn't care for the makeup/prosthetics either - to me the whole look seemed totally different than what we'd seen in RotJ.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on September 24, 2018, 03:15:46 AM
Well, it made sense that he'd secretly sneak in the lightsaber, to use it in case of extreme peril.

And he used it against Mace Windu, the battle with Yoda was later, when he was already Emperor. And that has some badass lines.  "Powaaaaah, unlimited powaaah" was indeed over the top, but him gloating and fiendishly laughing at Yoda and saying calmly and savoring the moment "I have waited a long time for this moment.... finally, the Jedi are no more" was a kickass line. Also Yoda's retort "Not if anything to say about it I have" was great.

Almost related, I also think that with a little tweaking Anakin's conversion could have been more convincing. He snaps all of a sudden, all it took was some severe pains for Padme, with her shrugging it off as "it's normal Anakin, it's some contractions, don't worry about it", and Anakin panicking "oh shit I'm gonna lose my baby, Palpatine was right all along", and then running frantically to him and completely losing it over fear and panic, thus justifying in that state of mind his hand-slicing of Mace Windu.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on September 24, 2018, 11:45:04 AM
And how they decided he survived his fall in a bottomless chasm with the minor injury of being cut in half?

It was his identical twin:  Darth Paul.

Seriously...it turns out there is a story line from one of the cartoon series (can't remember if it's The Clone Wars or Rebels) that explains this, and Maul's appearance in Solo is an offshoot of that story line.

I complained earlier in this thread about the use of story lines from those cartoons in the movies, given that a significant percentage (maybe even a majority) of folks who see the movies haven't seen the cartoons and will therefore be completely baffled.  I know that the cartoons are "officially" "canon," but I still find it annoying.

My biggest gripe with Solo was I didn't really need an "origin story" and, while Solo wasn't bad, I didn't think it was all that good either (and having anyone other than Harrison Ford play Han had very little chance of succeeding).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ZirconBlue on September 24, 2018, 07:03:02 PM
(and having anyone other than Harrison Ford play Han had very little chance of succeeding).


I watched Solo and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade the same week recently.  River Phoenix absolutely nailed the part of a young Indy. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on September 24, 2018, 07:26:45 PM
River Phoenix had worked with Ford prior to that and knew some of his mannerisms. Though it is hard for me to pinpoint how he incorporated that in to his performance, it was spot on regardless. He also had the guy who directed Ford twice in the role direct him as well.

"Origin" stories can work, even if no one really wanted them to begin with. Not sure if in 1973 people were clamoring for Vito Corleone's backstory. But we got it. And it's generally regarded as not only one of the best sequel's of all time, but one of the landmark films in cinema*. And the dude who played the role of young Vito was showered with accolades.

* I think I still prefer the first movie b a slim margin.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on September 25, 2018, 10:23:17 AM
(and having anyone other than Harrison Ford play Han had very little chance of succeeding).


I watched Solo and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade the same week recently.  River Phoenix absolutely nailed the part of a young Indy.

That worked because it was what...10 minutes in a much larger movie?  If it had been a whole movie, I don't think it would've been well received.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on September 26, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
I wonder if they'll ever dare make a "young Palpatine" movie, showing his origins. I mean, his pre-origins before the Prequel Trilogy.

Think of it, the Prequel Trilogy was all about a very criticized and maligned Darth Vader origin story.... while actually hidden within it was an awesome origin story for Palpatine. Come on, I dare anyone to say that Palpatine (and in great part thanks to Ian McDiarmid) wasn't one of the best things about the prequel.... his rise to power was simply awesome to behold.

Now that I think of it, what was the reaction, for those of you being fans back in the day, to see the actor portraying the Emperor being cast as a senator of the republic? was it a dead giveaway that George Lucas made no mystery about or they thought that new fans would just go along with it not being acquainted with each and every single actor of the original trilogy? I mean, if you watch The Phantom Menace alone Palpatine flies really under the radar, it's since Attack of the Clones that is starting to become obvious he's the one under Darth Sidious' cloak as well.

If you are into reading, the book “Darth Plageus” is just as much a Palpatine origin story as it is about Darth Plageus. First Star Wars novel I ever read, was very good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on September 27, 2018, 08:54:39 AM
Since Solo is out on Blu-ray this week, I wanted to pop in and say how much I have enjoyed both of the non-Skywalker films. I think Solo got a tremendously bad rap it didn't deserve. Frankly, it was a better movie than The Last Jedi, IMO.

I haven't re-watched Solo yet (I bought it on 4k this Tuesday, but waiting to watch it with the fam), but I did watch part of the bonus disc that had a roundtable with the cast and other stuff. They all really did a good job. I don't think Solo suffered from quality. I think its more measured return at the box office was more due to Star Wars overload in general. Glad they are hitting pause on some stuff (or appear to be). Need to spread it out, and stop being so greedy and immediate.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on September 27, 2018, 09:20:11 AM
I haven't seen it yet.  But now that it is out, I will shortly. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on September 27, 2018, 02:52:23 PM
Since Solo is out on Blu-ray this week, I wanted to pop in and say how much I have enjoyed both of the non-Skywalker films. I think Solo got a tremendously bad rap it didn't deserve. Frankly, it was a better movie than The Last Jedi, IMO.


I agree 100%. I have really enjoyed both Rogue one and Solo as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on October 01, 2018, 07:35:29 AM
Saw Solo over the weekend.  It was fun.  I avoided as much as I could about the movie before seeing it, and was surprised at some of the cast.  I knew about Glover as young Lando, and Emilia as The Girl Person, but Woody was a surprise, as was Paul Bettany.

The story was okay, had a twist or two, and like all Star Wars movies, moved along so quickly that you didn't have time to think about whether or not any of it made sense, so you just sit back and enjoy the ride.  All the required bits were there, as mentioned earlier, and pretty well done.  Maybe not how I would've done them, but no one asked me.

The Darth Maul thing was silly.  I was like "Okay, so he's the local Sith dude, we know there are a bunch of them, like cartel bosses or whatever... wait, is this before or after Episode... which one was he in before?  Ah, fuck it..." and I stopped thinking about it because I realized that the story had moved on and I was missing some of it worrying about something they're obviously not going to explain.  And just to make sure we all knew who he was, he actually extended both beams of his light saber for no reason while just sitting there.  Okay.

The scene with Lando and L3 was surprisingly moving.  I bought it.  She was right!  It was played for laughs earlier (or at least I took it that way), but she was right.

Han shot first.  Ha!  It was the right call, objectively, and his opponent even told him so.  That was a great scene.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on October 01, 2018, 08:09:28 AM
I honestly hope Solo does well enough on home video to justify the two sequels that were originally planned. Obviously with a lower budget, but I'm intrigued where the Maul thing was going. I'd hate to just see it end like that. Heck a Qi'ra and Maul movie with them being bad-ass gangsters would be kinda fun.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on October 01, 2018, 08:12:39 AM
The story was okay, had a twist or two, and like all Star Wars movies, moved along so quickly that you didn't have time to think about whether or not any of it made sense, so you just sit back and enjoy the ride.

You just discovered the secret to 95% of the twists and reveals of any movie ever  :lol

A good twist should be like the Bruce Willis one in the Sixth Sense. You should feel silly for not getting it ("of course he was dead... nobody was talking to him!"), not say "Wait, what?".

Also, the guy playing Han Solo got perfectly Harrison Ford's mannerims of posing with a gun. Very great job on his behalf. I assume most of us can, even for fun, pretend to be a character, but to portray accurately someone else's way of speaking and walking, that's what being an actor is really about.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 01, 2018, 08:54:21 AM
I haven't re-watched Solo yet (I bought it on 4k this Tuesday, but waiting to watch it with the fam), but I did watch part of the bonus disc that had a roundtable with the cast and other stuff. They all really did a good job. I don't think Solo suffered from quality. I think its more measured return at the box office was more due to Star Wars overload in general. Glad they are hitting pause on some stuff (or appear to be). Need to spread it out, and stop being so greedy and immediate.

Releasing Solo in May instead of December was a terrible move. If they had waited until Christmas, like the other recent movies, the film might have grossed twice as much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on October 01, 2018, 06:32:40 PM
The story was okay, had a twist or two, and like all Star Wars movies, moved along so quickly that you didn't have time to think about whether or not any of it made sense, so you just sit back and enjoy the ride.

You just discovered the secret to 95% of the twists and reveals of any movie ever  :lol

A good twist should be like the Bruce Willis one in the Sixth Sense. You should feel silly for not getting it ("of course he was dead... nobody was talking to him!"), not say "Wait, what?".

Totally agree.  Sure, you want to be entertained in the moment, and that's good enough for a lot of people.  But I like to think back on what I've just seen, usually discuss it with people, take it apart.  Others will point out things that I missed, and in a way I feel like I'm getting more out of it.  If a "twist" doesn't survive any kind of scrutiny, then it was literally just there to fuck with the audience, not because it made any actual sense.  And I don't like being fucked with.

The Sixth Sense (I know, we're getting off topic) is one of my all-time favorite twists because it works.  They established that Willis' character doesn't talk a lot anyway.  The editing is such that you just assume that you've come into the scene at a quiet point, so there's no talking, and your brain fills in the rest.  Like when the kid comes home, and Willis is sitting there in a chair across from the mom.  Mom gets up to go do something else and let the two of them talk.  You buy it because it all seems normal.  Only on reflection do you realize that you've been played, but you bought it.  It all worked.

Also, the guy playing Han Solo got perfectly Harrison Ford's mannerims of posing with a gun. Very great job on his behalf. I assume most of us can, even for fun, pretend to be a character, but to portray accurately someone else's way of speaking and walking, that's what being an actor is really about.

Story of course is important, and special effects in a Star Wars movie are a given, so for me it came down to whether or not you accept him as a younger version of Han Solo.  I bought it.  He looked close enough, and had the mannerisms and speech patterns good enough for me to buy in.  And Glover as Lando was even better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on October 02, 2018, 11:47:06 AM

Story of course is important, and special effects in a Star Wars movie are a given, so for me it came down to whether or not you accept him as a younger version of Han Solo.  I bought it.  He looked close enough, and had the mannerisms and speech patterns good enough for me to buy in.  And Glover as Lando was even better.

I went in skeptical. But both won me over. Particularly Glover as Lando. IMO, he stole the show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on October 02, 2018, 12:01:35 PM
Yeah, that first scene with Lando was great.  You hear his voice before you see him, and you just known it's Lando.  Glover had the part down tight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on October 04, 2018, 02:25:49 AM
New live action Star Wars show by John Favreau, will be called "Star Wars: The Mandalorian".

In His tweet Favreau said that the main character will be a lone Mandalorian gunslinger, who travels the Outer Rim. It is set in the years between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens.

I'm getting a real western vibe from this, I hope the show delivers!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on October 04, 2018, 10:12:21 AM
I'd rather see a show about a Midichlorian gunslinger.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 23, 2018, 09:09:29 AM
Finally saw Solo.  I went in with low expectations, and it far exceeded them.  I actually thought it was really good.  Really, the only ding is that it did feel a bit contrived at times that virtually everything revealed about Han's past was developed in this relatively narrow span of time and this one mission.  But then again, it's not like we need a ton of expansion on Solo's back story in other films, so it was fine here.  Nice addition to the SW universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on October 23, 2018, 09:13:53 AM
Finally saw Solo.  I went in with low expectations, and it far exceeded them.  I actually thought it was really good.  Really, the only ding is that it did feel a bit contrived at times that virtually everything revealed about Han's past was developed in this relatively narrow span of time and this one mission.  But then again, it's not like we need a ton of expansion on Solo's back story in other films, so it was fine here.  Nice addition to the SW universe.

Glad you liked it. I think it got a really bad rap. Good film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on October 23, 2018, 02:46:07 PM
I thought it was better than expected, since people seemed to shit on it, but I also didn't think it was great.  A solid movie, just nothing spectacular.  Feels like since it's a star wars movie, it will get a lot more criticism if it's not great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 23, 2018, 02:51:00 PM
I thought it was better than expected, since people seemed to shit on it, but I also didn't think it was great.  A solid movie, just nothing spectacular.  Feels like since it's a star wars movie, it will get a lot more criticism if it's not great.

It is at least better than ep. I and ep. II.  Not sure where I would ultimately rank it (or that there is any point in ranking it).  It was a fun story.  It was well put-together.  It felt like Star Wars.  That's good enough for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on October 23, 2018, 03:58:54 PM
I thought it was fine. It's a shame it flopped so badly from all the bad press and Star Wars fatigue.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on October 25, 2018, 02:31:01 PM
Yea, it suffered by being a star wars film IMO.  The fatigue plus high expectations, not that it's actually based in the SW universe.  Movie wasn't bad at all and not deserving of the shitstorm it got.  I don't think being better than Episodes 1 or 2 is saying much though, but I'd agree based on my one viewing of the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on October 25, 2018, 02:51:53 PM
I still haven't bought Solo on blu ray, but as I reflect back, it was a fun Star Wars adventure.

It was super predictable, and they were riffing all the greatest hits from Han's backstory, but they managed to make a fun SW romp from all those predictable elements. The cast was good, particularly Glover as Lando and they nailed the camaraderie between Lando and Han. As well as Han and Chewie.

However, that Imperial recruitment officer giving Han he's last name was just dumb. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on October 25, 2018, 04:48:11 PM
Yeah, that scene was supposed to riff off of the scene where young Vito Andolini comes to America and is given the name Corleone because he's from the village of Corleone in Sicily and the agent at Ellis Island was an idiot.  I mean, that's what it seemed to me right off the bat, and later I read that it was intentional, but that just confirmed that it wasn't really well done.

But Lucas came up with the name Solo because it fit the character, no other reason.  So they had some fun with it.  I guess I don't blame them for that; it was the execution that was awkward.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on December 08, 2018, 06:12:19 AM
A Star Wars page on FB just posted a short video of Palpatine with the question "When did you realize that Palpatine was a Sith lord?", to which I replied "in the moment when  the actor that portrayed the Emperor was cast as Palpatine"  :biggrin:

More seriously, for those who were fan back then and were anticipating The Phantom Menace - how much this detail was talked about? Ian McDiarmid, one of the stars of the original trilogy (well, the last movie actually) is brought back to play a senator when you already know the republic won't be there by the time the original trilogy unfolds? that was more than a dead giveaway, do you remember if it was just glossed over, or if every old fan started to watch The Phantom Menace knowing fully and completely that they were following the future Emperor?

I ask because if it was anybody else, there could have been a legitimate mystery to it... sure, by the time Attack of the Clones happens it's quite clear that Palpatine is, at the very least, up to something, but a new fan could have not made the realization by The Phantom Menace alone.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 08, 2018, 06:24:41 AM
I thought everyone knew who he was.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 08, 2018, 06:28:00 AM
I was around 11 at the time of the Phantom menace and didn't have internet, so I didn't even know who Ian McDiarmid was. I didn't know he was the actor that played the emperor in Jedi and I definitely didn't know he was being cast as a senator in Episode 1.

In general, I didn't have a clue what was going on in the movie the first time I watched it. I went to go see it with my best friend and his family and at the end of the movie, I remember my friend's dad leaning over when Palpatine says "We'll be watching your career with great interest" and he was like "get it, since he's the emperor"


(https://media3.giphy.com/media/xT0xeJpnrWC4XWblEk/200w.webp?cid=3640f6095c0bc6c86850614a5168fdb5)


Now if at the time I was as engaged with the internet as I am now, then I definitely would have known.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 08, 2018, 07:48:05 AM
The Internet wasn't the spoiler back in '97... his first scene (McDiarmid as Palpatine), only a moron wouldn't know that Senator Palpatine becomes the Emperor.  I'm trying to remember if ROTJ ever refers to him as Emperor Palpatine ??  Off the top of my head, I don't think so.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 08, 2018, 08:05:57 AM
I don't think he was ever referred to as Palpatine in the OT, but I know I knew him by that name prior to the prequels. Can't remember from where, probably books.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 08, 2018, 10:35:16 AM
Yeah, it wasn't a thing at all.  Everybody knew.  I can't remember whether we knew his name was Palpatine from the toys, the comics, and/or the EU.  But we all knew.  It wasn't even discussed as a thing when TPM came out. 

That said, throughout the first two films, I thought the one thing Lucas did handle pretty well was the political intrigue of Palpatine manipulating things to consolidate power for himself.  I remember thinking to myself that it seemed to be done pretty well for those who maybe were new to Star Wars and hadn't seen the OT. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on December 08, 2018, 10:44:54 AM
Palpatine/Ian McDairmid is definitely one of, if not the bright shining spots of Eps 1-3. His arc was well-constructed, though that whole trade embargo story line was weak.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 08, 2018, 10:54:08 AM
If you step back and ignore some of the specific details, the entire story arc for the entire thing was generally very good, IMO.  It's just that some of the specifics and/or the execution went really off the rails.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on December 08, 2018, 11:20:02 AM
If you step back and ignore some of the specific details, the entire story arc for the entire thing was generally very good, IMO.  It's just that some of the specifics and/or the execution went really off the rails.

That too, though I maintain that having a trade embargo on Naboo as being the catalyst for the creation of the Galactic Empire, and being the crux of the whole first movie, is rather..... dunno, can't find the right word for it.

I think the tension and urgency was lacking. In Ep4, within the first 5 minutes, we see soldiers board and mow down the crew of a ship, stun and capture a youthful rebel who stole plans from them, and a massive, creepy dude choke to death someone who won't give him the answers he wants. You know right off the bat the stakes are high. EP1 just never felt that way with a couple Jedi trying to resolve a trade dispute, despite all the action that takes place toward the start of the film.

Later in Ep4, creepy British military types are sitting around talking about blowing up whole planets, and then the head creepy dude does it just to prove a point in front of a girl after torturing her for information didn't work. Millions of Alderaanians are killed in an instant, and though we've never even seen teh planet, it resonates with us. As Ep1 progresses, do we ever feel that connected to the plight of Naboo and the Gungans?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 08, 2018, 11:28:06 AM
A good point, though I am unsure how else to do it (for the most part).

When Episode 4 starts, it's already in the middle of a war between the Empire and the Rebellion. The Empire is ruthless.

In Episode 1, it's a peaceful senate instead. They can't start off being ruthless and war crazy. Palpatine's entire plan was built on subtle intrusion. Where he was given all the power without having to take a thing.

I agree that a blockade and trade negotiations is...lame. They could have gone another route to achieve the same thing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on December 08, 2018, 12:50:24 PM
That said, throughout the first two films, I thought the one thing Lucas did handle pretty well was the political intrigue of Palpatine manipulating things to consolidate power for himself.  I remember thinking to myself that it seemed to be done pretty well for those who maybe were new to Star Wars and hadn't seen the OT.

I agree, I think that the shining point of the prequel trilogy was Palpatine's story, and of course Ian McDiarmid's performance. Best "wolf in sheep's clothing" on screen probably. As it was said later, he was basically handled willingly all the power and all he had to do was just to hold on to it.

When Yoda faces him in his office, it's eerily brilliant his savage satisfaction in taunting him, amidst his laughing, saying "I have waited a loooong time for this moment, my little green friend.... at last, the Jedi are no more".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on December 08, 2018, 01:21:59 PM
When Episode 4 starts, it's already in the middle of a war between the Empire and the Rebellion. The Empire is ruthless.

Lucas has discussed how in writing Ep4, he understood that while all movies have to start somewhere, they don't have to start "at the beginning." He knew he didn't need to show how we got to the Imperial Cruiser chasing the Tantive IV. If it was written well enough, which is was, audiences would catch on quickly enough.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 08, 2018, 01:30:59 PM
When Episode 4 starts, it's already in the middle of a war between the Empire and the Rebellion. The Empire is ruthless.

Lucas has discussed how in writing Ep4, he understood that while all movies have to start somewhere, they don't have to start "at the beginning." He knew he didn't need to show how we got to the Imperial Cruiser chasing the Tantive IV. If it was written well enough, which is was, audiences would catch on quickly enough.

Totally. But they were also just finally ending the senate in that movie. So assuming the prequels were in the same time frame that they were, there couldn't have been the same war.

However, they could have already been in the beginning of the clone wars or whatever. The whole set up to that was pretty lazy and meh, so that might have been an improvement.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 09, 2018, 09:19:17 AM
(https://i.redd.it/s542pzb7o3321.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 10, 2018, 10:50:11 AM
A Star Wars page on FB just posted a short video of Palpatine with the question "When did you realize that Palpatine was a Sith lord?", to which I replied "in the moment when  the actor that portrayed the Emperor was cast as Palpatine"  :biggrin:

More seriously, for those who were fan back then and were anticipating The Phantom Menace - how much this detail was talked about? Ian McDiarmid, one of the stars of the original trilogy (well, the last movie actually) is brought back to play a senator when you already know the republic won't be there by the time the original trilogy unfolds? that was more than a dead giveaway, do you remember if it was just glossed over, or if every old fan started to watch The Phantom Menace knowing fully and completely that they were following the future Emperor?

Keep in mind that Eps. IV-VI were released in the pre-internet era.  For me, the notion internet chat rooms didn't exist until mid-1993, and such things were ridiculously primitive at that time.  The first three movies had been released on VHS in the mid-80s, but home video versions weren't really common until the early/mid-90s.  They became more common in the following years leading up to the release of TPM in 1999.  I was a few months shy of 10 years old when Star Wars came out.  I saw it twice in the theaters and waited with great anticipation for Empire and RotJ.  I was in my 30s by the time the prequels were released and had read maybe a dozen of the Star Wars novels (e.g., the Thrawn trilogy).  The announcement of the prequels was HUGE news.

If, in 1999, I knew in who Ian McDiarmid was or who played the Emperor in RotJ, I don't remember now.  I don't even recall if, prior to the prequels, I was aware that the Emperor's name was "Palpatine (I can't remember if the Emperor was credited as "Emperor Palpatine" or just "the Emperor" in the pre-TPM home video releases).  I remember precisely zero "talk" about this (either on or off the internet) leading up to the release of TPM.  After seeing TPM in the theater, I think it was pretty well assumed Palpatine would become the Emperor.

That being said, your logic obviously makes sense from a retrospective point of view.  The only thing that really threw me off was the existence of the "Dath Sidious" character.  I recall thinking that there was obviously a connection between Senator Palpatine and the Emperor, but I recall not quite knowing what Sidious's role was and don't recall knowing with certainty that any or all three were really the same.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on December 10, 2018, 10:56:22 AM
(https://i.redd.it/s542pzb7o3321.png)

If my 12 year old sons saw your post brother, they would find you and subject you to Jar Jar torture
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 10, 2018, 11:03:27 AM
I just did a bit of quick research that stated that the name Palpatine was used in the 1977 novelization for A New Hope (which I had and read as a kid) and for ROTJ, and that he was referred to by that name in the end credits for ROTJ.  I suspect that that is how I knew, because I remember knowing it as a kid.  Pretty sure it was also used in the Dark Horse comics series where Luke briefly joined the dark side to try to infiltrate the empire and it was revealed that Palpatine cloned himself.  So, yeah, I DEFINITELY knew long before The Phantom Menace.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on December 10, 2018, 11:12:11 AM
I do not exactly remember, but my old fart brain agrees with Bosk. It was somewhere along those things.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 10, 2018, 11:50:14 AM
I had a vague recollection that maybe it might have also been the toys.  But my quick Google research seems to indicate that the action figure cards simply said "The Emperor." 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on December 10, 2018, 11:58:38 AM
A Star Wars page on FB just posted a short video of Palpatine with the question "When did you realize that Palpatine was a Sith lord?", to which I replied "in the moment when  the actor that portrayed the Emperor was cast as Palpatine"  :biggrin:

More seriously, for those who were fan back then and were anticipating The Phantom Menace - how much this detail was talked about? Ian McDiarmid, one of the stars of the original trilogy (well, the last movie actually) is brought back to play a senator when you already know the republic won't be there by the time the original trilogy unfolds? that was more than a dead giveaway, do you remember if it was just glossed over, or if every old fan started to watch The Phantom Menace knowing fully and completely that they were following the future Emperor?

Keep in mind that Eps. IV-VI were released in the pre-internet era.  For me, the notion internet chat rooms didn't exist until mid-1993, and such things were ridiculously primitive at that time.  The first three movies had been released on VHS in the mid-80s, but home video versions weren't really common until the early/mid-90s.  They became more common in the following years leading up to the release of TPM in 1999.  I was a few months shy of 10 years old when Star Wars came out.  I saw it twice in the theaters and waited with great anticipation for Empire and RotJ.  I was in my 30s by the time the prequels were released and had read maybe a dozen of the Star Wars novels (e.g., the Thrawn trilogy).  The announcement of the prequels was HUGE news.

If, in 1999, I knew in who Ian McDiarmid was or who played the Emperor in RotJ, I don't remember now.  I don't even recall if, prior to the prequels, I was aware that the Emperor's name was "Palpatine (I can't remember if the Emperor was credited as "Emperor Palpatine" or just "the Emperor" in the pre-TPM home video releases).  I remember precisely zero "talk" about this (either on or off the internet) leading up to the release of TPM.  After seeing TPM in the theater, I think it was pretty well assumed Palpatine would become the Emperor.

That being said, your logic obviously makes sense from a retrospective point of view.  The only thing that really threw me off was the existence of the "Dath Sidious" character.  I recall thinking that there was obviously a connection between Senator Palpatine and the Emperor, but I recall not quite knowing what Sidious's role was and don't recall knowing with certainty that any or all three were really the same.

That sums up pretty well I guess, thanks!

And now, to kill off the mystique of such an awesome character: "palpatine", in italian, is the plural form for when, say, you grope a woman's butt. Seriously  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 10, 2018, 12:08:10 PM
A Star Wars page on FB just posted a short video of Palpatine with the question "When did you realize that Palpatine was a Sith lord?", to which I replied "in the moment when  the actor that portrayed the Emperor was cast as Palpatine"  :biggrin:

More seriously, for those who were fan back then and were anticipating The Phantom Menace - how much this detail was talked about? Ian McDiarmid, one of the stars of the original trilogy (well, the last movie actually) is brought back to play a senator when you already know the republic won't be there by the time the original trilogy unfolds? that was more than a dead giveaway, do you remember if it was just glossed over, or if every old fan started to watch The Phantom Menace knowing fully and completely that they were following the future Emperor?

Keep in mind that Eps. IV-VI were released in the pre-internet era.  For me, the notion internet chat rooms didn't exist until mid-1993, and such things were ridiculously primitive at that time.  The first three movies had been released on VHS in the mid-80s, but home video versions weren't really common until the early/mid-90s.  They became more common in the following years leading up to the release of TPM in 1999.  I was a few months shy of 10 years old when Star Wars came out.  I saw it twice in the theaters and waited with great anticipation for Empire and RotJ.  I was in my 30s by the time the prequels were released and had read maybe a dozen of the Star Wars novels (e.g., the Thrawn trilogy).  The announcement of the prequels was HUGE news.

If, in 1999, I knew in who Ian McDiarmid was or who played the Emperor in RotJ, I don't remember now.  I don't even recall if, prior to the prequels, I was aware that the Emperor's name was "Palpatine (I can't remember if the Emperor was credited as "Emperor Palpatine" or just "the Emperor" in the pre-TPM home video releases).  I remember precisely zero "talk" about this (either on or off the internet) leading up to the release of TPM.  After seeing TPM in the theater, I think it was pretty well assumed Palpatine would become the Emperor.

That being said, your logic obviously makes sense from a retrospective point of view.  The only thing that really threw me off was the existence of the "Dath Sidious" character.  I recall thinking that there was obviously a connection between Senator Palpatine and the Emperor, but I recall not quite knowing what Sidious's role was and don't recall knowing with certainty that any or all three were really the same.

That sums up pretty well I guess, thanks!

And now, to kill off the mystique of such an awesome character: "palpatine", in italian, is the plural form for when, say, you grope a woman's butt. Seriously  :biggrin:

I would argue that only adds to the awesomeness!   :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 10, 2018, 12:17:39 PM
Yeah, I don't picture the #metoo movement gaining too much traction in the empire.  A few force chokes, and that movement is over before it began.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 10, 2018, 12:17:52 PM
(https://i.redd.it/s542pzb7o3321.png)

If my 12 year old sons saw your post brother, they would find you and subject you to Jar Jar torture
(https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8595592192/h5D0E52C7/)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on December 10, 2018, 02:05:00 PM
Now I am going to have Nightmares :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2018, 10:08:15 AM
(https://i.redd.it/s542pzb7o3321.png)

It's been done. :biggrin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hyF39ZyLA0
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 11, 2018, 11:53:51 AM
(https://i.redd.it/s542pzb7o3321.png)

It's been done. :biggrin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hyF39ZyLA0
That escalated quickly.  :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on December 12, 2018, 08:42:40 AM
Awesome :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 15, 2018, 05:11:26 AM
Just to be sure .... for those that didn't already know, take note of who made that vid.

:blob
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Darkstarshades on December 22, 2018, 02:24:52 AM
Does anybody here know or can share what were the fan theories about the clone wars, or about Anakin's reasons to go evil, or Palpatine's rise to power BEFORE The Phantom Menace, and thus, the prequel trilogy, was released?

Whad did you believe? what was the "consensus"?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on December 22, 2018, 11:05:09 AM
My personal theory, which was mostly in line with what my friends thought, was that The Clone Wars were what somehow led to the fall of The Republic and the rise of The Empire.  Since it was The Clone Wars (emphasis on plural), perhaps it was something like World War I and World War II.  An ongoing period of hostility and volatility that had multiple flashpoints, and eventually fractured The Republic and allowed The Empire to rise to power by providing stability, gathering and uniting dissatisfied factions and independents.  Unlike the World Wars on our planet, however, the result was more like if Nazi Germany had won.  The Empire did indeed unite most of the surviving powers, but as it is generally believed Nazi Germany would have done, it was an oppressive leadership, not a benevolent one.

I remember thinking that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker were buddies, basically equals, not in a mentor/mentee relationship.  They flew missions together in The Clone Wars, whatever that meant, and time and time again, Anakin Skywalker showed how he was the greatest pilot ever.  Obi-Wan grieved the loss of his friend to the Dark Side, which is true either way, but in my mind it was more like a guy you've known and hung out with since school days falling in with a bad crowd and becoming a felon, not a former student going bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 23, 2018, 02:34:04 AM
One thing I really liked about "The Clone Wars" animated show, is the way they expanded the friendship between Anakin and Obi-Wan.

If you watch only Episodes 2 and 3, you get the idea that while they are master and apprentice and have respect for each other, they also have a lot of disdain for each other on both sides. That one episode arc where Obi-Wan fakes he's death to go undercover as a bounty hunter, shows how much he meant for Anakin and how far he was willing to go to avenge he's "death".

They were brothers, and I didn't really get that from AOTC and ROTS.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on December 23, 2018, 02:56:13 AM
My personal theory, which was mostly in line with what my friends thought, was that The Clone Wars were what somehow led to the fall of The Republic and the rise of The Empire.  Since it was The Clone Wars (emphasis on plural), perhaps it was something like World War I and World War II.  An ongoing period of hostility and volatility that had multiple flashpoints, and eventually fractured The Republic and allowed The Empire to rise to power by providing stability, gathering and uniting dissatisfied factions and independents.  Unlike the World Wars on our planet, however, the result was more like if Nazi Germany had won.  The Empire did indeed unite most of the surviving powers, but as it is generally believed Nazi Germany would have done, it was an oppressive leadership, not a benevolent one.

I remember thinking that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker were buddies, basically equals, not in a mentor/mentee relationship.  They flew missions together in The Clone Wars, whatever that meant, and time and time again, Anakin Skywalker showed how he was the greatest pilot ever.  Obi-Wan grieved the loss of his friend to the Dark Side, which is true either way, but in my mind it was more like a guy you've known and hung out with since school days falling in with a bad crowd and becoming a felon, not a former student going bad.

That would have been reasonable.

Sadly, they went for a story that didn't really match up. What's the first thing that Darth Vader told Obi Wan after not seeing him for 20 years? "When I left you I was but an apprentice, now I am the master".

Dude. HE left YOU. For dead. To burn away near a river of lava with your limbs chopped off.

I mean, you see Revenge of the Sith and then A New Hope, and it just doesn't feel like a proper continuation from where they left off. That sentence of A New Hope fits better with your scenario than what actually happened.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on December 23, 2018, 06:50:43 AM
I forgot about the "I was an apprentice, now I am the master" line.  Did Obi-Wan, in relating the story to Luke, ever mention being Anakin's "master"?  Maybe the image I got in my head of Anakin and Obi-Wan being war buddies got stuck and was never revised when I heard that Anakin was actually his apprentice.

The main thing I remember is that we all had our fan theories, and when the prequels came out, we were very excited to see how they played out, how close we were, and George seemed to intentionally want to give us some surprises, which is fine, but they were to the point where they actually contradicted what was said in the original trilogy... "from a certain point of view".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: RuRoRul on December 23, 2018, 07:50:32 AM
L: No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.
O: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.
L: You fought in the Clone Wars?
O: Yes. I was once a Jedi knight, the same as your father.
L: I wish I'd known him.
O: He was the best starpilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior. I understand you've become quite a good pilot yourself. And he was a good friend.
Which reminds me, I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn-fool idealistic crusade like your father did.

L: How did my father die?
O: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father.


Darth Vader: A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master.

Darth Vader: I’ve been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the Master.

That Darth Vader was Obi-Wan's apprentice was always clear in the first film. It's probably fair to say that the perception of the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin more as "war buddies" rather than student and teacher comes across because of the obfuscation of "your father" and "Darth Vader" being spoken of differently (of course at the time it was filmed they might have been intended to be different people, I can't remember the history of when the twist was first conceived of). There's still enough in what Obi Wan said about Luke's father that it makes sense he was his apprentice (it's implied he "followed" Obi-Wan) but it definitely highlighted the camaraderie between equals rather than the student-teacher relationship (Obi-Wan says he was a Jedi knight "the same as your father", and he was a "good friend").
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ZirconBlue on December 23, 2018, 10:50:01 AM
I think the issue is, that when those lines were written,  Anakin and Vader were 2 different people.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Darkstarshades on December 23, 2018, 10:56:25 AM
I think the issue is, that when those lines were written,  Anakin and Vader were 2 different people.

Absolutely this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: RuRoRul on December 23, 2018, 12:18:34 PM
I get that (which was why I mentioned the intention when it was filmed was that they were treated as different people, even if looking back it's thankfully also consistent with the later twist with Obi-Wan just being evasive without directly lying by talking about Darth Vader and Anakin separately). Someone asked if it was ever mentioned Obi-Wan was Anakin's mentor, and those quotes are pretty much all references to both the Darth Vader-Obi-Wan and Anakin-Obi-Wan relationships in film one and basically give the answer: it was always explicit Obi-Wan was Darth Vader's mentor, but wasn't originally explicit that Obi-Wan was Luke's father's mentor with what's said definitely highlighting a camaraderie between them rather than mentor-student, but they thankfully don't contradict him Obi-Wan being Anakin's mentor either (the closest reference to it though is the idea of Anakin "following" Obi-Wan).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on December 23, 2018, 09:35:37 PM
So it's really a matter of Lucas very carefully dancing around the words, getting away with as much as he could, without directly contradicting what was said.  Anakin Skywalker was Obi-Wan's friend.  Darth Vader was Obi-Wan's student, and Darth Vader murdered Anakin Skywalker.

When Obi-Wan tells Luke that everything he said was true "from a certain point of view" it was Lucas telling us the audience the same thing.  No contradiction, just a careful choice of words; sorry if you jumped to the wrong conclusion.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on December 29, 2018, 07:52:51 PM
I finally saw Solo last night for the first time.  I see very few reasons to be critical of this movie - it's everything I want from a Han Solo "origin" story.  How does he become a smuggler?  How does he meet Chewie ( :heart), how does he meet Lando, how does he get the Falcon, what is the Kessel Run?  Darth Maul was really the only thing that I thought was just completely shoe-horned into the movie. 

Lando's droid was awesome, and I love that she had a great personality beyond the typical 3PO protocol droid, and was a female as well - I don't think there has been a lead droid in this universe that has been female yet.   Donald Glover was amazing as Lando - his first line just oozes with a Billy Dee Williams sound to his voice.  And I had no problem with Alden at all.

It's hard to not watch this movie and get a warm fuzzy feeling as Han interacts and develops a relationship with Chewie, knowing how they end up as life-long partners.  That's really the heart of his movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 02, 2019, 07:12:47 AM
I finally saw Solo last night for the first time.  I see very few reasons to be critical of this movie - it's everything I want from a Han Solo "origin" story.  How does he become a smuggler?  How does he meet Chewie ( :heart), how does he meet Lando, how does he get the Falcon, what is the Kessel Run?  Darth Maul was really the only thing that I thought was just completely shoe-horned into the movie. 

Lando's droid was awesome, and I love that she had a great personality beyond the typical 3PO protocol droid, and was a female as well - I don't think there has been a lead droid in this universe that has been female yet.   Donald Glover was amazing as Lando - his first line just oozes with a Billy Dee Williams sound to his voice.  And I had no problem with Alden at all.

It's hard to not watch this movie and get a warm fuzzy feeling as Han interacts and develops a relationship with Chewie, knowing how they end up as life-long partners.  That's really the heart of his movie.

I think my opinion is in the same realm as yours. I enjoyed the movie. My sense is that people were more critical of the film than it deserved because they were still angry about The Last Jedi. Kind of the opposite situation to Rogue One, where people were probably a little more positive than they otherwise would have been because the franchise was riding high after Force Awakens. Again, that is just my subjective interpretation of the situation. Ultimately, Star Wars films are kind of impossible to judge. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2019, 11:32:53 AM
Controversial opinion:  Thus far, the two "A Star Wars Story" spinoffs have been better as a whole than Eps. VII and VIII.  (although I have enjoyed them all)

Anyway, just wanted to pop in here due to my observation that it has been very quiet on the Star Wars front, given that the trilogy is set to wrap up in a few months.  We don't even have a title for Ep. IX yet.  I am guessing we will get a trailer with Endgame. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 03, 2019, 11:38:35 AM
I would totally agree that Solo and Rogue one are better then Episode 8. I am pretty fond of Force awakens though, so I would say that they at least match up or come close to matching up with 7.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on April 03, 2019, 12:10:14 PM
Agreed. IMO Rogue One by itself is better than VII and VIII combined.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 03, 2019, 12:15:41 PM
Really dug R1.....Solo was a 'good' movie......Loved TFA and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2019, 12:16:57 PM
...and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.

I don't know what's rare about that.  It is a great movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on April 03, 2019, 12:21:48 PM
Controversial opinion:  Thus far, the two "A Star Wars Story" spinoffs have been better as a whole than Eps. VII and VIII.  (although I have enjoyed them all)

Anyway, just wanted to pop in here due to my observation that it has been very quiet on the Star Wars front, given that the trilogy is set to wrap up in a few months.  We don't even have a title for Ep. IX yet.  I am guessing we will get a trailer with Endgame.

I would rank the four most recent Star Wars movies thusly:

1. The Last Jedi
2. Rogue One
3. The Force Awakens


4. Solo

What does "get a trailer with Endgame" mean?


Really dug R1.....Solo was a 'good' movie......Loved TFA and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.

I think TLJ is no worse than the third best Star Wars movie, but it seems pretty clear to me that it is the most polarizing of the Star Wars movies, with large chunks of the fan base who love it and large chunks who hate it.  We saw it as a family, and my wife LOVES the Star Wars series, but she didn't like TLJ to the point that she doesn't have any interest in seeing Trixie (i.e., Ep. IX).  My kids were always take it or leave it, so it looks like I'll be going "solo" to Ep. IX.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 03, 2019, 12:25:58 PM
I haven't finished watching SOLO. I remember I started watching it, and left it just when they were trying to escape from a city. I felt  asleep
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on April 03, 2019, 12:30:32 PM
...and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.

I don't know what's rare about that.  I is a great movie.

Yup.

I'd say I still like TFA best, out of all the Disney era SW movies. Followed by TLJ, Solo and R1.

R1 was way too downbeat, and had a huge cast of forgettable characters. It's a beautiful mess, as some of the action scenes are great to look at. Solo was fun and felt a lot like the original Star Wars. TLJ is too long and a bit messy, but has some of my favorite scenes of the entire saga. Yoda giving Luke a pep talk in front of the burning Jedi tree, is one of my favorite moments in the whole saga.

TFA is a "soft reboot" done right!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2019, 12:47:42 PM
What does "get a trailer with Endgame" mean?

It means that when Endgame is released in approximately 3 1/2 weeks, I would not be surprised if the trailer for "trixie" shows up in the previews.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on April 03, 2019, 12:52:06 PM
The reason the new trilogy hasn't stuck with me whatsoever is that there's no soul. There's no heart to it. There's no character development. We're heading into the final act here and I still know jack all about Rey (she's an orphan who can use the Force, okay), Finn (he's a rebel, okay), Poe (he's a pilot, okay), Captain Phasma (absolutely NOTHING, but hey, she seemingly died), Snoke (set up to be a huge villain only to be cut down as soon as they meet him in 8 and there's nothing more about him ever said, okay)... The only character who has had a half-decent focus so far is Kylo Ren and, unfortunately, that's mostly because of where he falls in the family tree and how his training with Luke affected him. Even the prequels had some growth for Anakin, as bad as it might have been.

I've just been thinking about the new trilogy a lot lately, especially yesterday, and it feels like they have spent almost no effort in trying to grow these characters. Seems like the entire project is more caught up with all the visual side of things instead of the substance. They're dressing up the plate, but there's just a tiny sliver of meat surrounded by elegantly spread sauces and garnishments.

(And Maz Kanata, and Rose, and the Order of Ren, and...)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on April 03, 2019, 01:07:51 PM
I largely agree with the basis behind that. I enjoyed to some degree watching both Eps 7 and 8 in the theater, but seemed to have forgotten everything that happened and lost all interest in the experience by the time I got to my car in the parking lot. But haven't been able to understand why.

Regarding "knowing nothing about Capt Phasma," the same could be said about Boba Fett, so why did audiences find him interesting in a way we don't with Phasma? Genuine question. I am not only enough to fully remember seeing TESB in 1980, but I do remember thinking Boba Fett was pretty cool, just not why I thought that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on April 03, 2019, 01:09:47 PM
Boba Fett is pretty much the same to me as Captain Phasma, honestly. I've never understood the hype.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 03, 2019, 01:19:26 PM
...and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.

I don't know what's rare about that.  I is a great movie.

TLJ seems to take a lot of crap.....at least more bashing than praise.

It's funny because the people who didn't like TFA largely didn't like it because there was too much fan fare or fan pleasing for their tastes. Then....what appears to be the same people bash TLJ because there wasn't any fan fare or fan pleasing going on  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2019, 01:20:08 PM
The reason the new trilogy hasn't stuck with me whatsoever is that there's no soul. There's no heart to it. There's no character development. We're heading into the final act here and I still know jack all about Rey (she's an orphan who can use the Force, okay), Finn (he's a rebel, okay), Poe (he's a pilot, okay), Captain Phasma (absolutely NOTHING, but hey, she seemingly died), Snoke (set up to be a huge villain only to be cut down as soon as they meet him in 8 and there's nothing more about him ever said, okay)... The only character who has had a half-decent focus so far is Kylo Ren and, unfortunately, that's mostly because of where he falls in the family tree and how his training with Luke affected him.

I don't really get this criticism.  I mean, let's compare, looking at what was actually given to us about those characters:

-Rey:  She's an orphan forced to scratch out a living doing hard labor for, basically, a slaver.  When confronted with a struggle for the common good, she overcomes her desire to just return to the life she knew and to instead take up the struggle for the common good.  She is apparently very force-sensitive, despite apparently NOT coming from a well-known lineage.  She is also headstrong and tempted by the dark side.  She sees the good in people, and she sees the value of the force in helping with the larger overall struggle, so she does everything in her power to convince the last living Jedi in the galaxy to train her.  She is also simultaneously drawn to the bad guy while being drawn toward destroying him if necessary.

-Finn:  Taken from his family at so young an age that he cannot remember them, and brainwashed to be a tool for the New Order.  He rebels against that because of the goodness in him--which eventually makes him a reluctant participant in the Resistance.  When push comes to shove, he is willing to put himself on the line and sacrifice himself for others.

-Poe:  Incredibly skilled pilot who has is overly self-confident, to the point where he takes unnecessary risks that, rather than helping others, make things worse due to his lack of thinking through the consequences.  He appears to have learned the hard way that that kind of approach can be destructive, and is set up to have that arc pay off in the final act. 

-Kylo:  Comes across as just an immature, unstable, self-centered person, but is more complex and conflicted than that.  He is ruthless and sees himself as serving the greater good, but is blinded by his own ambition.  After killing his father and betraying his master, he is now THE leader of the most powerful military force in the galaxy and appears to have all but crushed any real resistance.

-Snoke:  Big bad villain whose past is obscure.  He is the puppet master behind everything.  He is incredibly powerful and looked to be unstoppable.  Unfortunately, he is also incredibly dead (or so it seems). 

Vs. this as of the conclusion of Empire:

-Luke:  Orphaned and lived with his uncle and aunt as a poor moisture farmer, but there is more to his family history.  After his aunt and uncle die, he becomes kind of a classic underrated hero figure who rises above his circumstances, frees the princess, and trains to become a powerful jedi himself.  And--oh, crap!--the most evil guy in the galaxy turns out to be his dad.  But at the end of two films, he's still whiny and petulant, and doesn't REALLY seem to have learned his lesson.

-Leia:  Princess.  Respected leader.  Love interest to Luke--no, wait--make that Han. 

-Han:  Self-absorbed smuggler, who is in trouble with some gangster named Jabba.  Pretty impressive pilot, or so he says.  But is able to see the greater good and that he can be part of the solution, so he gets involved.  His motives are always somewhat opaque, but you get the sense that he is genuinely a good guy.

-Vader:  Someone that is not to be trifled with.  At all.  And yet, we get the sense that he is not in charge and he knows it.  Ruthless, but may have a soft spot for his son.  Not much more depth than that.

-The Emperor:  The puppet master.  Very powerful.  We don't know anything more than that. 

I mean, is there really much difference in the character arcs of the main characters two films into each trilogy?  They look pretty similar to me.  Yeah, overall, you can say that the plot overall, and how the characters fit into it all, feels a bit derivative by now.  But I think that's to be expected.  I think what has been done with the characters to this point is VERY similar to what we saw in the OT.  And for someone who doesn't like the OT either, that's fine.  Or for someone who can acknowledge the lack of depth in the OT and has just grown tired of it and doesn't feel like that sort of thing can be sustained for now 9 films without losing interest, that's fine too.  But let's not pretend that there is a vast difference.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2019, 01:26:18 PM
Regarding "knowing nothing about Capt Phasma," the same could be said about Boba Fett, so why did audiences find him interesting in a way we don't with Phasma? Genuine question. I am not only enough to fully remember seeing TESB in 1980, but I do remember thinking Boba Fett was pretty cool, just not why I thought that.

Because Lucas said Boba Fett was awesome, and the public (me included) largely shrugged and said, "Oh, okay, cool.  He's awesome then."

Sure, that's oversimplifying it.  But it's still basically accurate.  Long before Ep. V came out, Boba Fett was the cool, mysterious new character in the next film whose limited edition action figure you could get ONLY by sending in the proofs of purchase from other action figures and getting it sent to you in the mail.  Then they discontinued that run prematurely because some kid somewhere allegedly choked on the little rocket piece from his jet pack, so that version of the action figure became even MORE rare when they replaced it with a version where the rocket was just molded into the pack.  And there was other hype as well.  So long before you even saw the character, he was hyped as the coolest thing ever.  And we all bought into it.  But the difference between him and Phasma is that, IMO, Boba Fett was actually used fairly well in V and VI.  Phasma has a cool look, and was initially set up to be somebody formidable.  But every time she is given an opportunity to do something, she just fails miserably and shows that she is really lacking.  IMO, they've severely mishandled her as a character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on April 03, 2019, 01:44:26 PM
I mean, is there really much difference in the character arcs of the main characters two films into each trilogy?  They look pretty similar to me.  Yeah, overall, you can say that the plot overall, and how the characters fit into it all, feels a bit derivative by now.  But I think that's to be expected.  I think what has been done with the characters to this point is VERY similar to what we saw in the OT.  And for someone who doesn't like the OT either, that's fine.  Or for someone who can acknowledge the lack of depth in the OT and has just grown tired of it and doesn't feel like that sort of thing can be sustained for now 9 films without losing interest, that's fine too.  But let's not pretend that there is a vast difference.

Not to dismiss the rest of your post, bosk - I just want to address this specifically, since there was a lot of other meat on the bones of that post, so to speak. I'm not saying this to hold up the OT over the new ones, because I in fact don't think the original trilogy is good either, and shares the same flaws as these. It's partially why I'm so much more disappointed in the new ones, because they've failed to do better on that front. I don't at all think there's a difference, that's my exact point whenever I talk to people and tell them how much wasted potential there has been with every single one of these films (I don't think there is a single 'great' Star Wars movie, not one).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on April 03, 2019, 01:45:26 PM
That is amazing that kind of hype could be generated in 1980, pre-internet!

Agree about Phasma. I cannot honestly say I remember anything she did in either film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2019, 01:49:21 PM
...and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.

I don't know what's rare about that.  It is a great movie.

TLJ seems to take a lot of crap.....at least more bashing than praise.

It's funny because the people who didn't like TFA largely didn't like it because there was too much fan fare or fan pleasing for their tastes. Then....what appears to be the same people bash TLJ because there wasn't any fan fare or fan pleasing going on  :lol

I dunno.  I liked it a lot.  To me, it had two glaring flaws:

1.  For all that was happening, the timeline was way too compressed.  We should have just seen some passing of time to indicate that a lot of the events were actually playing out over a longer time period.  But then again, this is an issue with virtually ALL of the films, not just this one.  But it's just more apparent in this one because you have events such as Rey training with Luke and the casino planet subplot, which SHOULD have taken much longer.  But you were constantly reminded that it was such a short period of time because of the space chase arc.  So although I knew the other films did similar things, I could more easily ignore it in the other films. 

2.  The casino planet and the keymaster.  *sigh*  There was a lot that was cool about this idea, but it seemed to constantly fail for a lot of reasons.  This is where the film looses a lot of points with me, and I seem to be kinder than most in that regard.

Still, despite its flaws, it did so many things well and was a really fun movie.  It is my least favorite of the Disney batch.  But I like it a lot--probably more than any of the prequels.

I mean, is there really much difference in the character arcs of the main characters two films into each trilogy?  They look pretty similar to me.  Yeah, overall, you can say that the plot overall, and how the characters fit into it all, feels a bit derivative by now.  But I think that's to be expected.  I think what has been done with the characters to this point is VERY similar to what we saw in the OT.  And for someone who doesn't like the OT either, that's fine.  Or for someone who can acknowledge the lack of depth in the OT and has just grown tired of it and doesn't feel like that sort of thing can be sustained for now 9 films without losing interest, that's fine too.  But let's not pretend that there is a vast difference.

Not to dismiss the rest of your post, bosk - I just want to address this specifically, since there was a lot of other meat on the bones of that post, so to speak. I'm not saying this to hold up the OT over the new ones, because I in fact don't think the original trilogy is good either, and shares the same flaws as these. It's partially why I'm so much more disappointed in the new ones, because they've failed to do better on that front. I don't at all think there's a difference, that's my exact point whenever I talk to people and tell them how much wasted potential there has been with every single one of these films (I don't think there is a single 'great' Star Wars movie, not one).

Okay, that's fair. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on April 03, 2019, 02:20:12 PM
What Katt stated a few posts up... that's a great way to articulate how I feel with this current trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on April 03, 2019, 02:40:38 PM
What Katt stated a few posts up... that's a great way to articulate how I feel with this current trilogy.

Yea, that same issue is in R1 and a big reason why I rank it low in the franchise although it's actually a decent movie in and of itself, it's just the characters are so forgettable.  Shit, I forget who Phasma even is too, the new trilogy's characters are so uninteresting although as with R1, I don't think the story is bad (even TLJ I enjoyed) but the characters just hold it back so much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on April 03, 2019, 02:48:42 PM
Ironically, I found Rogue One characters to be more memorable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on April 03, 2019, 03:19:25 PM
What does "get a trailer with Endgame" mean?

It means that when Endgame is released in approximately 3 1/2 weeks, I would not be surprised if the trailer for "trixie" shows up in the previews.

So..."Endgame" is a movie?  Got it.


Boba Fett is pretty much the same to me as Captain Phasma, honestly. I've never understood the hype.

Maybe it's just a matter of how old I was in the ESB - ROTJ era and now, but the hype over Boba Fett was huge.  A lot of folks thought he was well set up to be some sort of total badass, and then he died in a rather unglorified way in ROTJ.  I know one person who was super geeked about Phasma, but they're otherwise very similar:  characters who had a lot of potential for badassery but who really didn't play much of a role in the larger storyline, so there was no reason to explore that potential.  I don't recall any pre-ESB hype about Boba Fett, but maybe some of my friends were into it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 05, 2019, 10:40:05 AM
So..."Endgame" is a movie?  Got it.

Avengers: Endgame (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcMBFSGVi1c)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on April 11, 2019, 06:01:40 PM
Supposedly the title and first trailer for episode IX will be revealed tomorrow at the convention in Chicago (where I live)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 11, 2019, 06:15:41 PM
Supposedly the title and first trailer for episode IX will be revealed tomorrow at the convention in Chicago (where I live)

It's confirmed that it will be revealed tomorrow.

But I can NOW tell you what the title is: Will of the Force  :metal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on April 11, 2019, 06:33:01 PM
Supposedly the title and first trailer for episode IX will be revealed tomorrow at the convention in Chicago (where I live)

It's confirmed that it will be revealed tomorrow.

But I can NOW tell you what the title is: Will of the Force  :metal

Is that your prediction or do you have inside info?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 11, 2019, 06:51:32 PM
In addition to the trailer dropping tomorrow, I am looking forward to getting more info on the upcoming SW game Fallen Order


(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/FoBfuH0LrNfq5pC1ufCIeCU6SII=/0x0:665x1020/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:665x1020):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16026023/A1BL2__kVAL.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 11, 2019, 06:53:34 PM
I am looking forward to The Mandalorian 8 episodes serie
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 12, 2019, 06:47:13 AM
Just saw an article that said that the Disney + streaming service will cost $6.99 a month. Not a bad price.....although I’d anticipate that to increase once they get everyone to sign up and dependent on it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on April 12, 2019, 09:15:38 AM
Just saw an article that said that the Disney + streaming service will cost $6.99 a month. Not a bad price.....although I’d anticipate that to increase once they get everyone to sign up and dependent on it.
Very smart of them to start with a low price point. I will definitely sign up for a month a couple times a year to watch the Star Wars and Marvel shows at a minimum.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 12, 2019, 09:41:06 AM
You can watch the streaming of the oanel here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnhiLZOprZE&fbclid=IwAR0KEKLCl0kU3ZSdYjf8Tp-_ehzWx16KMjQLlVUAiHfQzO7H_2WfSXXLFyc

It's just about to go LIVE
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 12, 2019, 10:38:41 AM
Some quotes and images:

“The movie doesn’t pick up immediately after the last film. Some time has passed. This movie is an adventure the group goes on together."

- JJ Abrams on #IX


"The lightsaber that Rey inherited from Luke lives."

- Daisy Ridley


"I can confirm there are no new semi-naked Kylo's [in #IX]."

- Daisy Ridley



(https://i.ibb.co/kXR5mPm/D391d-A4-X4-AEESX7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bXSQbGb)

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 12, 2019, 11:14:13 AM
Supposedly the title and first trailer for episode IX will be revealed tomorrow at the convention in Chicago (where I live)

It's confirmed that it will be revealed tomorrow.

But I can NOW tell you what the title is: Will of the Force  :metal

It was obviously my prediction.

THE RISE OF THE SKYWALKER it's the official title

Is that your prediction or do you have inside info?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 12, 2019, 11:15:10 AM
Teaser trailer looked alright.



Spoiler I guess

Wonder what role palpatine will play

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 12, 2019, 11:17:03 AM
TEASER TRAILER
THE RISE OF THE SKYWALKER
Star Wars EP IX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGAupmtXcMM

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 12, 2019, 11:18:58 AM
Teaser trailer looked alright.



Spoiler I guess

Wonder what role palpatine will play

Yeah, and that phrase: "no one ever really gone" intrigues me
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 12, 2019, 11:20:28 AM
Now my mind's gonna be racing with speculation for the next few hours  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 12, 2019, 11:20:42 AM
Looks awesome! Really glad they brought JJ back. I really enjoyed The Last Jedi minus what they did with Rey origin so I'm hoping they change that. The Rise of Skywalker is an interesting title considering it's the end other Skywalker Saga. Is Rey a Skywalker? They apparently visit the Death Star. And having the emperor back is genius. That will provide more details on Snoke.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on April 12, 2019, 11:23:04 AM
TEASER TRAILER
THE RISE OF THE SKYWALKER
Star Wars EP IX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGAupmtXcMM

"No one's ever really gone," followed by Palpatine's laugh, was pretty damn chilling!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on April 12, 2019, 11:25:03 AM
SPOILER!!!

Uncle Palpy is back! I wonder how they are going to explain that. Also back is the smoothest guy in the galaxy, can't wait to see Billy Dee back on the screen again!!

Can't wait for December, and I like the title too!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on April 12, 2019, 11:30:08 AM
Uncle Palpy is back! I wonder how they are going to explain that.

Well...for all we know, Rey or Kylo hears the laugh in a dream.  At the moment, there's no context, so we can all anticipate this for the next 8 months.  I'm sure some folks will build up expectations and then be disappointed and blame producer/director/writer for ruining it.


Also back is the smoothest guy in the galaxy, can't wait to see Billy Dee back on the screen again!!

FOR SURE!!!


I like the title too!

The title strikes me as a little odd given that it's the last episode, but it's hard to make much of a title.

Very much looking forward to this!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on April 12, 2019, 11:32:32 AM
I think the title is awesome.  This has always been the story of the Skywalker family, so it's absolutely perfect.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on April 12, 2019, 11:33:15 AM
I think the title is awesome.  This has always been the story of the Skywalker family, so it's absolutely perfect.

It's the "rise of" part that has me perplexed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on April 12, 2019, 11:34:17 AM
Yea I dont know what to make of the title.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 12, 2019, 11:40:48 AM
Uncle Palpy is back! I wonder how they are going to explain that.

Well...for all we know, Rey or Kylo hears the laugh in a dream.  At the moment, there's no context, so we can all anticipate this for the next 8 months.  I'm sure some folks will build up expectations and then be disappointed and blame producer/director/writer for ruining it.



I watched the Star Wars Celebration and at the end of the teaser trailer the actor that portrays Palpatine was on stage after the lights went ON, and people obviously got nuts!!!

I think he will be in the movie somehow
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on April 12, 2019, 11:42:56 AM
The coolest thing about that trailer was what we heard at the very end. What a terrible title.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on April 12, 2019, 11:43:27 AM
The Rise of Skywalker. Love it. Majestic. Can't wait to see how the story unfolds and connects to the title. Everyone probably assumes Luke, but I'm not so sure...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 12, 2019, 11:46:13 AM
The Rise of Skywalker. Love it. Majestic. Can't wait to see how the story unfolds and connects to the title. Everyone probably assumes Luke, but I'm not so sure...

Kylo? or the never ending speculation of Rey being a Skywalker?

BTW in the SWC somebody in the crowd shouted “If the emperor can come back then *anyone* can come back”

 :metal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on April 12, 2019, 11:46:17 AM
Sadly there was nothing that happened in Ep8 that has me interested in seeing it resolved in Ep9. I will still see it and likely enjoy it. I just don't find anyone story arc very compelling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on April 12, 2019, 11:47:02 AM
Sadly there was nothing that happened in Ep8 that has me interested in seeing it resolved in Ep9. I will still see it and likely enjoy it. I just don't find anyone story arc very compelling.

Hey, spoiler alert, watch out, there's one last Skywalker. And she's probably an orphan girl from a desert planet...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 12, 2019, 11:49:53 AM
Rise of skywalker,  from the dead perhaps?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 12, 2019, 11:50:55 AM
Sadly there was nothing that happened in Ep8 that has me interested in seeing it resolved in Ep9. I will still see it and likely enjoy it. I just don't find anyone story arc very compelling.

Hey, spoiler alert, watch out, there's one last Skywalker. And she's probably an orphan girl from a desert planet...
 

Where are you putting Kylo?

BTW, the hand fixing Kylo's helmet are furry hand. I thought first it was him fixing his helmet, but its not
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on April 12, 2019, 11:52:15 AM
Kylo is probably gonna die and Rey's gonna be there crying because she had to kill him because Kylo killed Finn in the last act and she has to avenge him after talking to Luke's force ghost or something
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 12, 2019, 11:54:45 AM
Talking with some people at work after the trailer.

Here are our theories:

- The Emperor made clones of himself as a backup plan. That is how he returns.
- Knowing that Anakin was the most powerful force user he also made clones of him.
- Rey is a clone of Anakin (Hence The Rise of Skywalker)
- Kylo Ren and Leah are the only two skylwakers alive so I'm assuming they either both die or Kylo sacrifices himself to kill emperor #2 akin to The Return of the Jedi.

I could be way off but logically makes a lot of sense. Also, George Lucas always said that he intended the Skywalker saga to be based on Anakin not Luke so having Rey be a clone of Anakin also fits that story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on April 12, 2019, 12:02:19 PM
If Palpatine does appear (which I'm still skeptical of despite the laugh in the trailer, because IMO it doesnt have to mean anything) I would be surprised if his appearance is anything more than force ghost.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 12, 2019, 12:09:25 PM
I thought the trailer was really nice.  Can't wait to see this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on April 12, 2019, 12:10:59 PM
Didn’t TFA trailer have Vader’s breathing? Did people think he was gonna be in it?

Also trailer was decent. Not bad at all. Standard. Serviceable. Good, considering it’s still 8 months away.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on April 12, 2019, 12:14:05 PM
I wonder who's gonna be the titular Skywaler: Anakin who died in Episode 6, Luke who died in Episode 8, or Leila whose actress passed away.

 ::)

The title and the Palpatine laugh make it seem like they can't stand on their own legs and they need to rely on the classic characters of the past.... of course it's too early to judge and maybe the movie will be nothing like that!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on April 12, 2019, 12:19:33 PM
Didn’t TFA trailer have Vader’s breathing? Did people think he was gonna be in it?

Also trailer was decent. Not bad at all. Standard. Serviceable. Good, considering it’s still 8 months away.

That was at the end of the Rogue One trailer:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frdj1zb9sMY
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on April 12, 2019, 12:20:30 PM
Could have sworn it was in TFA trailer too. When they showed his burnt helmet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on April 12, 2019, 12:24:24 PM
I wonder who's gonna be the titular Skywaler: Anakin who died in Episode 6, Luke who died in Episode 8, or Leila whose actress passed away.

 ::)

Kylo?  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 12, 2019, 12:28:10 PM
I wonder who's gonna be the titular Skywaler: Anakin who died in Episode 6, Luke who died in Episode 8, or Leila whose actress passed away.

 ::)

The title and the Palpatine laugh make it seem like they can't stand on their own legs and they need to rely on the classic characters of the past.... of course it's too early to judge and maybe the movie will be nothing like that!

I think it's clear now that episodes 7-9 aren't 100% about being original. There are 2 trilogies in development that I'm assuming will do that. This the closing chapter of the Skywlaker Saga. Why wouldn't they include the primary bad guy of the series and the name of the main characters?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on April 12, 2019, 12:29:45 PM
So apparently Skywalker is a title as well as a name. This was confirmed in either one of the animated series or the comics or something. I can't find the article I read a while back that was speculating that Rey could become a Skywalker in another sense than as the offspring of Luke.

Trailer was awesome. Can't wait!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on April 12, 2019, 12:32:25 PM
I wonder who's gonna be the titular Skywaler: Anakin who died in Episode 6, Luke who died in Episode 8, or Leila whose actress passed away.

 ::)

The title and the Palpatine laugh make it seem like they can't stand on their own legs and they need to rely on the classic characters of the past.... of course it's too early to judge and maybe the movie will be nothing like that!

I think it's clear now that episodes 7-9 aren't 100% about being original. There are 2 trilogies in development that I'm assuming will do that. This the closing chapter of the Skywlaker Saga. Why wouldn't they include the primary bad guy of the series and the name of the main characters?

To be fair wasn't the Skywalker saga closed before Disney entered the picture? :P

Honestly I do think there's some validity to the whole "Disney leaning on nostalgia" argument. I really liked TFA a lot but it was basically ANH retold, I did not like Rogue One at all, and TLJ and Solo were big disappointments for me, but I do think the general theme through all of these films have been nostalgia, "things we like" etc.

Maybe we will get something really unique in the future but it does feel like the Star Wars universe is more limited than ever. It feels like most fans are only interested if the movie has things we already know and like.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on April 12, 2019, 12:57:38 PM
BTW in the SWC somebody in the crowd shouted “If the emperor can come back then *anyone* can come back”

 :metal

Well...that's pretty much the same thing as "no one's ever really gone."


So apparently Skywalker is a title as well as a name. This was confirmed in either one of the animated series or the comics or something. I can't find the article I read a while back that was speculating that Rey could become a Skywalker in another sense than as the offspring of Luke.

Writing the movie to include plot points don't make sense without knowledge of stuff other than the movies (as they did with Darth Maul in Solo) is the one thing they could do that would really annoy me.  Star Wars movies should not be written solely for the hardcore fans who consume that ancillary stuff.  That Disney says it's "canon" is beside the point as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: masterthes on April 13, 2019, 06:26:11 AM
Wild theory time. I don't think the Emperor will be physically alive. We'll see him as a ghost, and we'll see him and Luke face off in the first ever force ghost lightsaber battle
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on April 13, 2019, 07:01:33 AM
So apparently Skywalker is a title as well as a name. This was confirmed in either one of the animated series or the comics or something. I can't find the article I read a while back that was speculating that Rey could become a Skywalker in another sense than as the offspring of Luke.

Writing the movie to include plot points don't make sense without knowledge of stuff other than the movies (as they did with Darth Maul in Solo) is the one thing they could do that would really annoy me.  Star Wars movies should not be written solely for the hardcore fans who consume that ancillary stuff.  That Disney says it's "canon" is beside the point as far as I'm concerned.
I agree that the movies should stand alone and not rely on knowledge of other Star Wars lore. I would imagine they would explain the whole Skywalker thing in detail in the movie if they were going to use it. Here's what I read about it a while back:

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-9-theory-rey-skywalker/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: PetFish on April 13, 2019, 10:44:44 PM
My theory is that Rey's dad is either Vader or Luke.

*spoilers*

1)  Anakin was told about midi-chlorian manipulation to create life and we know that Palpatine created Anakin:

https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2018/12/20/star-wars-comic-anakin-father/

So, before Vader dies in VI, at some point he does the same ritual and it turns out to be Rey.  The major hole in this theory is that would mean Rey is closer to 30 years old when we meet her and she certainly doesn't look like it.

2)  Luke, having all the old texts on the island and presumably reading them, could have also discovered the ritual and tried it himself, after his failure with Ben and could foresee disaster, and ended up creating Rey which means Luke is Rey's Dad.


If Palpatine is really still alive there's stuff in the Rebels show, right at the end of the series, that can explain how it would be possible with The World Between Worlds stuff allowing time and space manipulation that Palpatine could have used to survive.

TL;DR - Either Vader or Luke manipulated midi-chlorians to create Rey.

PS - Can we change the title of this thread?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on April 13, 2019, 11:55:40 PM
Ill throw my hat into the speculation ring!

In the new SW canon there has been introduced this idea, that past Sith Lords can retain some form of existence in the place of their death. This was supposedly introduced in some comic..

Anyway, I think this is the key of how they bring Uncle Palps back to life. What if the wreckage of DS2 on Endor is essentially he's tomb. He is trapped there in non corporeal form, and he's ultimate goal is to find a way out to live again.

PS - Can we change the title of this thread?

Dew it!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on April 14, 2019, 07:55:53 AM
My theories:

Rey will not be physically related to Luke. Rey, along with the force ghosts of Luke, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and maybe even Qui-Gon and Anakin will finally bring balance to the force by defeating Kylo Ren. Rey will then embody balance in herself alone since she will not be pure light side, but a mixture of the light and dark. Rather than calling this new balanced force user a Jedi, she will Christen them Skywalkers.

As for Palpatine, he will not be physically reborn, but will have his spirit tied to an object in the Death Star. He will somehow use his spirit to control a person and wreak havoc on the Galaxy.

I would not be surprised if the world between worlds comes in to play somehow. In fact I think it's pretty likely it will.

I also would not be at all surprised if Rey and Kylo join forces to defeate Palpatine with Kylo dying the process for somewhat of a redemption.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: T-ski on April 14, 2019, 08:39:14 AM
I don't believe for one second JJ Abrams will give us a clear and understandable ending.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on April 14, 2019, 09:00:22 AM
I don't believe for one second JJ Abrams will give us a clear and understandable ending.
Thats my worry too. If this is truely supposed to be the end, I hope the Star Wars brass insists that it ends with a clear ending.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on April 14, 2019, 06:16:12 PM
The Emperor is not coming back. Total overreaction. Look how in TFA they played all of the sounds and voices from the past, Kenobi even prequel Kenobi, Vader, droids, sound effects, light sabers, visions yada yada yada. In what sense would the Emperor reappear especially after the last two movies? He'll be a voice from the past the end.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jonny108 on April 15, 2019, 07:32:24 AM
The Emperor is not coming back. Total overreaction. Look how in TFA they played all of the sounds and voices from the past, Kenobi even prequel Kenobi, Vader, droids, sound effects, light sabers, visions yada yada yada. In what sense would the Emperor reappear especially after the last two movies? He'll be a voice from the past the end.

JJ and KK have both confirmed they are bringing Palpatine back and consulted with George Lucas about it. So he's definitely coming back, but how remains to be seen.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on April 15, 2019, 08:03:07 AM
I assume that the effort it will take to bring realistically back a character who was thrown down a bottomless shaft of a space station that later exploded will far exceed the effort that would have been needed to write a new story with new characters and a good villain that wouldn't make us miss Palpatine.  :biggrin:

Uh well, we'll see soon enough, no point in judging a movie just by the title or a laugh heard over a black screen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 15, 2019, 02:53:01 PM
I've lost interest in SW so much at this point that I don't care who they bring back. Palpatine's walking around in the flesh again? Be my guest. At least he's a character that i love watching.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Dream Team on April 15, 2019, 07:32:17 PM
The Emperor is not coming back. Total overreaction. Look how in TFA they played all of the sounds and voices from the past, Kenobi even prequel Kenobi, Vader, droids, sound effects, light sabers, visions yada yada yada. In what sense would the Emperor reappear especially after the last two movies? He'll be a voice from the past the end.

JJ and KK have both confirmed they are bringing Palpatine back and consulted with George Lucas about it. So he's definitely coming back, but how remains to be seen.   

 :facepalm: I hate JJ Abrams so much. Imagine 25 years ago someone telling you the same douchebag asshole was going to ruin both Star Trek AND Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on April 16, 2019, 12:54:41 AM
I've lost interest in SW so much at this point that I don't care who they bring back. Palpatine's walking around in the flesh again? Be my guest. At least he's a character that i love watching.

I’m almost at that point too. The trailer was ok, but just seems like more of the same. I don’t know why we need to see Lando again, other than for the sake of nostalgia.

I’d normally be following the SW news sites every day looking for tidbits of info, but for this one I’ll try to go in knowing as little about it as I can, and with expectations set to rock bottom.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on April 16, 2019, 05:30:28 AM
I've lost interest in SW so much at this point that I don't care who they bring back. Palpatine's walking around in the flesh again? Be my guest. At least he's a character that i love watching.

I’m almost at that point too. The trailer was ok, but just seems like more of the same. I don’t know why we need to see Lando again, other than for the sake of nostalgia.

Ditto.  I've lost virtually all excitement about this franchise given the course of the last two films.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 16, 2019, 06:38:14 AM
I've lost interest in SW so much at this point that I don't care who they bring back. Palpatine's walking around in the flesh again? Be my guest. At least he's a character that i love watching.

I’m almost at that point too. The trailer was ok, but just seems like more of the same. I don’t know why we need to see Lando again, other than for the sake of nostalgia.

Ditto.  I've lost virtually all excitement about this franchise given the course of the last two films.

Really? Man...I must be a sucker then cuz I’ve really liked the output of films we’ve gotten from Disney. Solo being the ‘weakest’ in my eyes but still good.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 16, 2019, 07:14:01 AM
The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 16, 2019, 07:55:07 AM
The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).

Each time I watch TLJ I love it more and more. IMO the best all encompassing 'film' of the series.....when considering all aspects of a film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 16, 2019, 07:56:10 AM
The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).

Each time I watch TLJ I love it more and more. IMO the best all encompassing 'film' of the series.....when considering all aspects of a film.

I still have a love/hate relationship with it.  I hate the casino planet excursion.  But I love everything else about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on April 16, 2019, 08:06:23 AM
The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).

That's because it's a fucking replica of ESB, but with way more plot holes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 16, 2019, 08:08:07 AM
The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).

That's because it's a fucking replica of ESB, but with way more plot holes.

Translation:  "I don't like it because [insert Internet buzzwords] so nobody else can either."   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 16, 2019, 08:11:43 AM
The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).

Each time I watch TLJ I love it more and more. IMO the best all encompassing 'film' of the series.....when considering all aspects of a film.

I still have a love/hate relationship with it.  I hate the casino planet excursion.  But I love everything else about it.

I can deal with and look past the casino excursion....but the Leia force space walk is what I roll my eyes at and wish was missing from the movie. That was rough...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on April 16, 2019, 08:15:53 AM
The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).

That's because it's a fucking replica of ESB, but with way more plot holes.

Translation:  "I don't like it because [insert Internet buzzwords] so nobody else can either."

Translation:  "I like it, therefore anyone who doesn't must've been swayed by the internet, not their own ability to have an opinion"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 16, 2019, 09:48:24 AM
The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).

Each time I watch TLJ I love it more and more. IMO the best all encompassing 'film' of the series.....when considering all aspects of a film.

I still have a love/hate relationship with it.  I hate the casino planet excursion.  But I love everything else about it.
I agree, the casino planet is definitely the worst part.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on April 16, 2019, 09:52:24 AM
:facepalm: I hate JJ Abrams so much. Imagine 25 years ago someone telling you the same douchebag asshole was going to ruin both Star Trek AND Star Wars.

If making a movie that is no worse than the third best SW movie and two of the top five SW movies constitutes "ruining" SW, then sign me up for more ruin!


The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).

I put it either second or third (behind Empire and maybe the original).  Solo isn't far behind.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on April 16, 2019, 10:58:50 AM
I plan to rewatch VII and VIII before IX comes out. Upon release, I thought VII was an A and VIII was like a B-. That said, I also thought that VIII blew a huge opportunity and squandered a lot of potential, so my feelings towards it are probably more negative than it deserves, if that makes any sense at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 17, 2019, 07:44:45 AM
So Kathleen Kennedy confirmed that the plan to bring the Emperor back came up before TFA started filming. They even contacted Ian Mcdiarmid so he's been on board for years. I still think that they're going to go the clone route and Snoke was clone and Rey is a clone of Anakin.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 17, 2019, 07:54:16 AM
So Kathleen Kennedy confirmed that the plan to bring the Emperor back came up before TFA started filming. They even contacted Ian Mcdiarmid so he's been on board for years. I still think that they're going to go the clone route and Snoke was clone and Rey is a clone of Anakin.

I could live with that.

and It would make me look at this cave scene as: There's multiple reys, because she is a clone and one of many potential reys. And the cave is revealing to her that she's a copy. Or something like that.


(https://clashingsabers.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/c1d3689a5fbfce3b737688c99f8ec00e.jpg?w=700)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on April 17, 2019, 08:33:58 AM
If they bring Palps back, wouldn’t that completely retcon Vader’s redemption at the end of RotJ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 17, 2019, 08:41:10 AM
No
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on April 17, 2019, 08:43:42 AM
If they bring Palps back, wouldn’t that completely retcon Vader’s redemption at the end of RotJ?

Nah. It was his act that mattered, not the outcome.


I dunno how they plan on bringing Sheev back, but Ian McDirmid has stated that the character is, indeed, dead.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on April 17, 2019, 08:54:36 AM
If they bring Palps back, wouldn’t that completely retcon Vader’s redemption at the end of RotJ?

Nah. It was his act that mattered, not the outcome.


Good point
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 17, 2019, 10:37:12 AM
So Kathleen Kennedy confirmed that the plan to bring the Emperor back came up before TFA started filming. They even contacted Ian Mcdiarmid so he's been on board for years. I still think that they're going to go the clone route and Snoke was clone and Rey is a clone of Anakin.

I could live with that.

and It would make me look at this cave scene as: There's multiple reys, because she is a clone and one of many potential reys. And the cave is revealing to her that she's a copy. Or something like that.


(https://clashingsabers.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/c1d3689a5fbfce3b737688c99f8ec00e.jpg?w=700)

Good point!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on April 17, 2019, 11:04:38 AM
Did I miss something? Why do people think everyone is a clone? Rey a clone of Anakin? Snoke a clone of Palpatine? Is Finn a clone of Lando? Is Poe a clone of Han? Is Chewie a clone of another Chewie that sadly died before episode 7? Is Yoda a failed clone of Kermit? What the hell is going on here?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: King Postwhore on April 17, 2019, 11:09:29 AM
Sex was banded by the Empire.  Clones were the future. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on April 17, 2019, 11:13:31 AM
I don't agree with this clone thing either.  One character, sure.  I think the Emperor will be a force ghost, just like we've seen with the Jedi, and how we are expecting Luke to manifest himself.   Though in Episode III, Palpatine did lure Anakin to the dark side with the Plageus the Wise story of defying death, so that could be possible too.  Ian MacDiarmid wouldn't spoil anything, so it's natural for him to just say, "I'm dead, you'll just have to watch and see." 

If the Force created Anakin, then it's possible for the Force to create someone else, like Rey in another attempt to bring balance.  The Force Awakens was all about the story being cyclical - history repeats itself.  I could see that happening.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on April 17, 2019, 11:33:29 AM
But Palpatine was bullshitting. Once Anakin got Vader'ized he was like "So boss how do we cheat death?" and Palpatine told "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together I know we can discover the secret."

So before the sell he was like "Come to the dark side, we totally can defeat death". After the sell he was like "Well... dunno, it's kinda hard, but we'll make it, I'm sure. Now please kill babies"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on April 17, 2019, 11:34:51 AM
We all assumed "cheat death" meant stay alive. What if cheating death is the force ghost thing? That's kind of cheating death.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 17, 2019, 12:43:17 PM
True.  Also, Yoda is a failed clone of Kermit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on April 17, 2019, 12:46:38 PM
No matter how well Palpatine's resurrection goes down in TROS, I'm stoked that we get to see Ian McDiarmid reprise the character one last time!

And yeah, I agree that Vader's redemption was more about him not letting Palpatine kill he's son, rather than destroying the Sith.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 17, 2019, 01:02:37 PM
Well, there were the clone wars so the technology was available and there was a major plot line in the Star War books (which as of now is not cannon) where the emperor created clones of himself to achieve immortality.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on April 17, 2019, 01:05:16 PM
Well, there were the clone wars so the technology was available and there was a major plot line in the Star War books (which as of now is not cannon) where the emperor created clones of himself to achieve immortality.

There's also robots. No one is wondering if all the characters are robots.

Honestly, as much interest as I've lost in SW, if any of these characters are clones and they go that way, I'm completely out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 17, 2019, 01:07:32 PM
Wouldn't surprise me if there were to be a Palpatine clone, since precedent for that was long-ago established in the EU. 

There is no way Rey is a clone.  Aside from contradicting basic biology, there's just no reason to assume that that would be the case.  What a silly thing to speculate.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on April 17, 2019, 01:31:07 PM
The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).
On reflection and now that time has passed since it came out, I agree entirely.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 17, 2019, 01:37:28 PM
The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).
On reflection and now that time has passed since it came out, I agree entirely.
That is because you are a gentleman of exceedingly rare perspicuity and insight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 17, 2019, 01:40:25 PM
I'll have to watch it again.  I might have ranked it nearly that high when it first came out.  But after repeat viewings, the casino planet thing started to bother me more.  But it's been awhile.  And I've been wanting to watch it again anyway.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: SleeperAwake on April 17, 2019, 01:41:18 PM
So before the sell he was like "Come to the dark side, we totally can defeat death". After the sell he was like "Well... dunno, it's kinda hard, but we'll make it, I'm sure. Now please kill younglings"
FTFY
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on April 17, 2019, 02:05:35 PM
The casino planet was OK. Not particularly great but I thought it was fine.

But the film's highs excited me, either emotionally or intellectually. A thrilling movie with some minor flaws is much more my style of storytelling than Abrams' safer approach.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on April 17, 2019, 02:35:30 PM
I actually didn't have any problem with the casino planet subplot. But then I generally didn't think too highly of the movie as a whole. So my bar is much lower than others I guess.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on April 19, 2019, 08:54:00 AM
I'm not sure why, but I felt compelled to share this. I guess I just found it really interesting.

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/270073/star-wars-how-george-lucas-episode-vii-outline-became-the-last-jedi

The gist is that Luke's self-imposed isolation in Episode VIII was pretty much in line with what George Lucas would have done if he directed the sequel trilogy. That doesn't mean it was the right creative choice or the wrong one, but it does poke a small hole in the idea that Rian Johnson went rogue on Luke's character. My sense is that Luke was always destined to end up how he did. Perhaps under the watchful eye of Lucas or JJ, he does not die in VIII, but he probably dies eventually in IX, and he would not be the Luke we remembered.

Honestly, Luke's arc is one of the things about VIII that I find myself liking more and more as time passes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 19, 2019, 09:05:10 AM
Honestly, Luke's arc is one of the things about VIII that I find myself liking more and more as time passes.
Totally. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 19, 2019, 12:10:16 PM
I can see Luke eventually becoming the person we see in VIII, but it's hard to get there.  He's gone through a lot in the decades since we'd seen him last, but we haven't seen any of it.  One of the criticisms I see a lot about Luke in VIII is that there's "no way" he could've become that person.  That bitter, that disillusioned, that disgusted with everything, that negative... in such a short time.

But wait, it hasn't been a short time, it's been a long time.  It's because the timeline's a bit fucked in the sequel trilogy.  After being "protectors of the galaxy" or whatever for hundreds of years, is 30 years long enough for the Jedi to have become legendary and almost forgotten?  No, that doesn't make sense, and that's the real weakness, trying to make those two things take the same amount of time.  But 30 years is long enough for Luke to have seen some shit, and done some shit, and 30 years is long enough to change a person a hell of a lot.  Maybe people were thinking that he was just off somewhere, travelling the galaxy, enjoying his retirement/exile/whatever.  And then we find out through flashbacks (which weakens the overall effect) what happened.

Anyway, TLJ still has its problems and some will always bug me, but I might be coming around on the Luke thing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on April 19, 2019, 12:12:07 PM
Honestly, Luke's arc is one of the things about VIII that I find myself liking more and more as time passes.
Totally.

Luke's arc was the most interesting and engaging part of the movie for me!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on April 19, 2019, 12:13:50 PM
But wait, it hasn't been a short time, it's been a long time.  It's because the timeline's a bit fucked in the sequel trilogy.  After being "protectors of the galaxy" or whatever for hundreds of years, is 30 years long enough for the Jedi to have become legendary and almost forgotten?
That didn't happen in this period, it mostly happened between episodes III and IV (remember Han's scepticism about the Force).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 19, 2019, 12:59:10 PM
Good point.  At the beginning of IV, it had already been long enough for Officer ForceChokedLoser to mock The Force and anyone who still believed in that.  In the big picture, the events of the Original Trilogy were less significant than they seemed at the time.  The "Return of the Jedi" was just a minor blip in history, the Jedi didn't make a huge resurgence or anything, and it's been another generation since then.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on May 02, 2019, 05:36:30 PM
R.I.P. Peter Mayhew.  :'(

https://news.yahoo.com/peter-mayhew-chewbacca-star-wars-dies-230507203.html
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on May 02, 2019, 07:14:01 PM
RIP indeed. Chewie, we're home.
 :-[
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on May 02, 2019, 09:12:45 PM
I recall a story he told where he went to read for George and others, and when they walked in to the room, Peter, being a gentleman, stood up and towered over everyone. To which they said "well, looks like we have a Chewbacca."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on May 07, 2019, 02:18:32 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/three-star-wars-films-added-164910115.html (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/three-star-wars-films-added-164910115.html)

Quote
Disney has announced that three previously untitled live-action movies slated for 2022, 2024 and 2026 will be new, untitled “Star Wars” films.

Following the release of “Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker” in December of this year, Disney will release three more “Star Wars” films on Dec. 20, 2022, Dec. 18, 2024 and Dec. 18, 2026, respectively.

Quote
Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy previously said in an interview with EW that the “Star Wars” films would be taking a “hiatus for a couple of years.” She also stressed that both Johnson and Benioff and Weiss would be working “very closely together” and even in tandem on their projects, with Benioff and Weiss segueing into “Star Wars” after completing “Game of Thrones.”

So the Game of Thrones show runners are possibley going to make the next Star Wars trilogy?  Oh man, I don't know about this.  I don't want to shit on them for one season that's not going well, but after they ran out of source material, they really struggled to make good compelling stories on their own.  I don't have faith in these guys taking over the SW universe, but I also don't have better options to name really. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on May 07, 2019, 07:02:56 PM
The interesting takeaway from that list that Disney released is that Avatar sequel is pushed another year to 2021 and will then release in tandem with the Star Wars movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on May 12, 2019, 02:33:19 PM
The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).
On reflection and now that time has passed since it came out, I agree entirely.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. TLJ was 80% garbage, 20% the greatest Star Wars movie of all time. So it evens out to a "meh" for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on May 12, 2019, 02:57:23 PM
Did you see this?

https://www.facebook.com/nerdbotmedia/videos/335748497087223/

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on May 12, 2019, 03:09:46 PM
Did you see this?

https://www.facebook.com/nerdbotmedia/videos/335748497087223/

Okay, THAT is pretty cool.



Regarding The Last Jedi, I hold that it's a badly written movie with three (to my memory) fantastic scenes. The scene where the one ship flies through the fleet is just breathtaking. Kylo and Rey vs. the red dudes is mostly amazing. Luke vs. Kylo is also amazing.

The rest I'd probably put around Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith (which I don't think of nearly as highly as everyone else, and consider it the 2nd worst movie).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on May 13, 2019, 06:01:18 AM
Did you see this?

https://www.facebook.com/nerdbotmedia/videos/335748497087223/

Okay, THAT is pretty cool.


Indeed.  That was wicked.

Regarding The Last Jedi, I hold that it's a badly written movie with three (to my memory) fantastic scenes. The scene where the one ship flies through the fleet is just breathtaking. Kylo and Rey vs. the red dudes is mostly amazing. Luke vs. Kylo is also amazing.

The rest I'd probably put around Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith (which I don't think of nearly as highly as everyone else, and consider it the 2nd worst movie).

Nailed it (though I do like RotS).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Bolsters on May 13, 2019, 06:47:41 AM
I have a theory that people only like Revenge of the Sith because they sit through both The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones first, and pretty much anything would seem good after doing that. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on May 13, 2019, 06:53:26 AM
I have a theory that people only like Revenge of the Sith because they sit through both The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones first, and pretty much anything would seem good after doing that. :neverusethis:

Fair point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 13, 2019, 08:19:34 AM
I have a theory that people only like Revenge of the Sith because they sit through both The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones first, and pretty much anything would seem good after doing that. :neverusethis:
I would tend to agree.

Regarding The Last Jedi, I hold that it's a badly written movie with three (to my memory) fantastic scenes.
I disagree with your characterization of the film, but I think it's a perfect description of the entire prequel trilogy.  A badly written three films, with three (or so) fantastic scenes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on May 13, 2019, 09:59:25 AM
I have a theory that people only like Revenge of the Sith because they sit through both The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones first, and pretty much anything would seem good after doing that. :neverusethis:

My best friend stands firmly behind his opinion that Sith is one of the best Star Wars films, and easily the best of the prequels. I have tried several times to get him to sit through RedLetterMedia's review of ROTS, and he never makes it more than 20 minutes before losing his shit.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on May 13, 2019, 10:00:40 AM
I maintain that people like Sith cause it's really dark and has lots of fighting. People love that stuff. Look at the praise for modern GoT.

I would actually put Phantom Menace above it. I really thought Sith was an awful movie that somehow...SOMEHOW....Clones managed to be worse than. Which, in and of itself, is a great achievement.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on May 13, 2019, 10:24:06 AM
I have tried several times to get him to sit through RedLetterMedia's review of ROTS, and he never makes it more than 20 minutes before losing his shit.  :lol

A review that's longer than 20 minutes?!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on May 13, 2019, 10:26:00 AM
I have tried several times to get him to sit through RedLetterMedia's review of ROTS, and he never makes it more than 20 minutes before losing his shit.  :lol

A review that's longer than 20 minutes?!

Brother, you're about to get introduced to the world of longform YouTube reviews, and RedLetterMedia's Mr. Plinkett Star Wars reviews (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYWAHuFbLoc) are some of the best out there. Set aside 2 hours or watch it in spurts, it's a hilariously brutal takedown of the movie. He's got others, too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on May 13, 2019, 10:28:11 AM
I have tried several times to get him to sit through RedLetterMedia's review of ROTS, and he never makes it more than 20 minutes before losing his shit.  :lol

A review that's longer than 20 minutes?!

Brother, you're about to get introduced to the world of longform YouTube reviews, and RedLetterMedia's Mr. Plinkett Star Wars reviews (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYWAHuFbLoc) are some of the best out there. Set aside 2 hours or watch it in spurts, it's a hilariously brutal takedown of the movie. He's got others, too.

Realistically, the chances that I'll sit through a review that's roughly the same length as the movie are none and less than none.  The closest I'd get to something like that are the Cinema Sins "everything that's wrong with" series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on May 13, 2019, 10:29:45 AM
I have tried several times to get him to sit through RedLetterMedia's review of ROTS, and he never makes it more than 20 minutes before losing his shit.  :lol

A review that's longer than 20 minutes?!

Brother, you're about to get introduced to the world of longform YouTube reviews, and RedLetterMedia's Mr. Plinkett Star Wars reviews (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYWAHuFbLoc) are some of the best out there. Set aside 2 hours or watch it in spurts, it's a hilariously brutal takedown of the movie. He's got others, too.

Realistically, the chances that I'll sit through a review that's roughly the same length as the movie are none and less than none.  The closest I'd get to something like that are the Cinema Sins "everything that's wrong with" series.

That's fair. I go deep down the rabbit hole watching incredibly lengthy longform videos on YouTube so I personally love them, but I still do recommend watching them if you're ever in the mood for some funny, super nerdy Star Wars critiquing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on May 13, 2019, 10:36:57 AM
Regarding The Last Jedi, I hold that it's a badly written movie with three (to my memory) fantastic scenes.

I agree with this assessment. TLJ (and in lots of ways many modern movies) is like Wrestlemania. WM has become less about individual matches and more about moments. They even tout them as "Wrestlemania Moments." It's no longer about Steamboat/Savage at WM3 or Austin/Hart at WM13. TLJ felt that way: some great scenes and amazing visuals buried among a slog of mediocre storytelling and character development.

In real time, liked RotS  (and even AotC) much more than TPS, Simply because I cared about what I was seeing. I didn't care about anything that was happening in TPS. Nothing was remotely compelling about a trade embargo, the unplanned detour to Tatooine and picking up young Anakin, the boring Senate debates. The other two were flawed and hokey at parts but at least I cared about the hokeyness.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on May 14, 2019, 06:29:45 PM
Well apparently now it's official that the first Star Wars movie (in 2022) after Episode 9 will be one of the ones by the Game of Thrones guys.  https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/14/18623128/star-wars-movie-2022-game-of-thrones-benioff-weiss-bob-iger-rian-johnson-disney (https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/14/18623128/star-wars-movie-2022-game-of-thrones-benioff-weiss-bob-iger-rian-johnson-disney)

My first reaction was being glad, as I really don't feel all that much excitement for a Rian Johnson trilogy.  Episode 1:Broom Kid and His Broom Saber. 

Honestly though I've not seen a single episode of Game of Thrones so I'm basically indifferent. 

On the bright side, I loved The Force Awakens (second favorite SW film for me behind A New Hope), so Episode 9 with JJ is something I really look forward to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on May 14, 2019, 11:38:41 PM
I have tried several times to get him to sit through RedLetterMedia's review of ROTS, and he never makes it more than 20 minutes before losing his shit.  :lol

A review that's longer than 20 minutes?!

Brother, you're about to get introduced to the world of longform YouTube reviews, and RedLetterMedia's Mr. Plinkett Star Wars reviews (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYWAHuFbLoc) are some of the best out there. Set aside 2 hours or watch it in spurts, it's a hilariously brutal takedown of the movie. He's got others, too.

I don’t even like review videos....but I will watch those Plinket reviews over and over. They are hilarious!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on May 15, 2019, 07:17:05 AM
Well apparently now it's official that the first Star Wars movie (in 2022) after Episode 9 will be one of the ones by the Game of Thrones guys.  https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/14/18623128/star-wars-movie-2022-game-of-thrones-benioff-weiss-bob-iger-rian-johnson-disney (https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/14/18623128/star-wars-movie-2022-game-of-thrones-benioff-weiss-bob-iger-rian-johnson-disney)

My first reaction was being glad, as I really don't feel all that much excitement for a Rian Johnson trilogy.  Episode 1:Broom Kid and His Broom Saber. 

Honestly though I've not seen a single episode of Game of Thrones so I'm basically indifferent. 

On the bright side, I loved The Force Awakens (second favorite SW film for me behind A New Hope), so Episode 9 with JJ is something I really look forward to.
I personally wouldn't be surprised in the Rian Johnson trilogy has been quietly scrapped. We have the Star Wars release calendar through 2026, which includes on the trilogy by the GOT guys. What are the chances Johnson waits around for 8+ years to make his trilogy?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on May 15, 2019, 04:49:03 PM
I just imagine the faces of the suits over at Disney when they scrap the Rian Johnson trilogy because of the TLJ reactions to fast track a trilogy by the GoT guys only to see the controversies over GoT s8. "oh crap".  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ErHaO on May 17, 2019, 02:25:07 PM
I wish Disney the best of luck with Benioff and Weiss. Looking at the screenplay career of Benioff, I do think he is talented, some great films and fantastic Game of Thrones seasons on his name. But there is a stark difference between adaptions/remakes and new stories. The Kite Runner and Brothers (great) vs Wolverine: Origins and Stay (hot garbage) for example. My gut feeling is that Benioff is not the guy Star Wars needs right now (an exciting new storyline), especially after The Last Jedi. Not sure what Weiss' role is, I think he wrote some books before GoT but am not familiar with his material.

Rian Johnson has some great potential in my opinion, but not for a major family blockbuster trilogy. A separate film doing some entirely different (a mystery film set in the Star Wars universe or something). The way they approached the current trilogy was not that great either. Should've been Abrahams for the entire thing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on May 17, 2019, 06:02:28 PM
Whatever they do with the GOT guy's trilogy, I sincerely hope they have them write out a detailed plot for all three movies before they start. 1. That prevents them from slacking off when they're ready to move on after several years of working on Star Wars. 2. It ensures there are no issues like in Ep 8 where the director/writer clearly didn't care for some of the things the Ep 7 director/writer did. Given that the Star Wars brass have no issue replacing people who aren't working out, I'm not too worried about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on May 30, 2019, 08:36:58 PM
So I am about a billion times more excited to check out Galaxy's Edge than Ep9.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVmqzaIeNRI

Stay till the end for Ford's tribute.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on May 30, 2019, 08:46:25 PM
I could see myself checking out Galaxy's edge at some point down the road. Definitely gonna wait for the hype to die down
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on May 31, 2019, 11:32:55 AM
I'm going to be in Disneyland in September. Hopefully Galaxy's Edge won't be so busy by then. My wife is fairly anti-SW for some dumb reason (mostly because she's annoyed by violence in kid's movies, which I guess isn't so dumb), so we won't be spending a lot of time there, but I hope to at least take a stroll through. Definitely not going wait in line for hours to go on the Millennium Falcon ride.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on May 31, 2019, 12:15:57 PM
I'm going to be in Disneyland in September. Hopefully Galaxy's Edge won't be so busy by then. My wife is fairly anti-SW for some dumb reason (mostly because she's annoyed by violence in kid's movies, which I guess isn't so dumb), so we won't be spending a lot of time there, but I hope to at least take a stroll through. Definitely not going wait in line for hours to go on the Millennium Falcon ride.

It's going to be busy for a few years, at least.  And from what I heard, there will be lines just to get into the land itself.  The only thing that might save you somewhat is if you are going during the week in September, because kids will be back in school.  Even if that's the case, I recommend trying to hit it right at rope drop or late at night (and night might actually be a bad idea because kids will go after school and other locals after work).

Hopefully, Rise of the Resistance is open by then.  Even if that line is long, from everything I've heard, it's going to be amazing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 20, 2019, 01:59:34 PM
The originof Kylo Ren

https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/20/20701871/star-wars-marvel-comics-rise-of-kylo-ren-charles-soule-rise-of-skywalker-san-diego-comic-con-2019?utm_campaign=theverge&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on July 22, 2019, 04:29:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owrmLeX20CY
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on August 16, 2019, 06:54:22 AM
I'm all for this.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/aug/16/ewan-mcgregor-obi-wan-kenobi-disney-star-wars
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 16, 2019, 08:15:14 AM
I'm all for this.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/aug/16/ewan-mcgregor-obi-wan-kenobi-disney-star-wars

Yep. Love the idea of it being a series (I think that’s what’s implied?) where they can really tell a story rather than cramming it into a movie or two.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 16, 2019, 09:27:12 AM
I'm all for this.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/aug/16/ewan-mcgregor-obi-wan-kenobi-disney-star-wars

Yep. Love the idea of it being a series (I think that’s what’s implied?) where they can really tell a story rather than cramming it into a movie or two.

This.

Giddy-the-fuck-up!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 16, 2019, 01:45:40 PM
I was watching Screen Junkies and they joked the series should be a sequel and not a prequel. So just ghost Obi-wan hanging out with all the other ghost Jedis.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 16, 2019, 01:52:54 PM
As much as I like the idea of exploring the character beyond just a single 2 hours movie, I'll say I'd rather see it on the big screen than on my TV. Sounds like it will be 6 one hour episode based on rumors I've heard. That could have been it's own trilogy of films. I'm excited about it for sure, just wish I could watch it in a theater.

It's looking more and more like Disney+ will be the first streaming service I actually pay for instead of just doing the free trial every now and then to catch up on things I've missed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on August 17, 2019, 06:23:28 AM
Really interested in The Mandalorian, mostly because i've been waiting for a proper live-action series set in the Star Wars universe.  :tup

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 18, 2019, 10:19:36 AM
2 separate thoughts.

1) Just watched Solo for the first time. Thought it was a fun movie. It didn't inform the character of Solo much for me, but it didn't need to, nor did I really care for it to. I enjoyed it. Thought the Solo actor (not going to try and type his name from memory) did a fine job in role that potentially set him up for failure and criticism. Still to this day have a hard time Seeing Woody Harrelson as anyone but Woody from Cheers.

2) Anyone here ever listen to the Star Wars radio series? It came up as I was scrolling through YT last night. I had no idea it even existed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_(radio_series)

https://youtu.be/0-29uKdckL4
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 20, 2019, 02:59:13 PM
Yeah, I enjoyed Solo as well.  Given how badly it was slagged, I went into it with very low expectations and was pleasantly surprised by how good it is. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 21, 2019, 06:18:20 AM
Yeah, I enjoyed Solo as well.  Given how badly it was slagged, I went into it with very low expectations and was pleasantly surprised by how good it is. 
I felt the same way. I'm disappointed the left it open for sequels that we'll likely never get. Disney+ series maybe?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on August 23, 2019, 10:05:00 AM
(https://i.redd.it/nlnroo2z57i31.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 23, 2019, 12:04:57 PM
I really hope that show is as good as it looks like it could be.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on August 23, 2019, 10:11:28 PM
Just announced at #D23Expo: Ewan McGregor will reprise his role as Obi-Wan Kenobi in a new original series, coming to #DisneyPlus.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on August 23, 2019, 10:20:53 PM
(https://i.redd.it/nlnroo2z57i31.jpg)




Here's the trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOC8E8z_ifw
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 23, 2019, 10:33:24 PM
Boy the Disney suits don't think this well will ever run dry eh? 

After I typed that I found the trailer for The Mandalorian - never mind, already posted.

Also, looking at the cast I see:

Apollo Creed!
Werner Herzog - who I was not sure was still alive
Nick Nolte - who I was not sure was still alive
And a girl named Emily Swallow.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on August 24, 2019, 03:21:32 AM
Just announced at #D23Expo: Ewan McGregor will reprise his role as Obi-Wan Kenobi in a new original series, coming to #DisneyPlus.
This will be interesting!  :tup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIcjQYUV14w&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on August 24, 2019, 06:58:33 PM
Just announced at #D23Expo: Ewan McGregor will reprise his role as Obi-Wan Kenobi in a new original series, coming to #DisneyPlus.
This will be interesting!  :tup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIcjQYUV14w&feature=youtu.be

Disney is smart to do a streaming service and stop waiting for years to pass for mediocre movies. Star Wars will do better with a few series to keep it going at this point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on August 25, 2019, 01:57:54 AM
Just announced at #D23Expo: Ewan McGregor will reprise his role as Obi-Wan Kenobi in a new original series, coming to #DisneyPlus.
This will be interesting!  :tup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIcjQYUV14w&feature=youtu.be

Disney is smart to do a streaming service and stop waiting for years to pass for mediocre movies. Star Wars will do better with a few series to keep it going at this point.
Yea I think that's why i'm more excited for this than I been for any of the movies in recent years. If it's it's good and well recieved I guess this will spawn 5 new seasons and 7 spin-offs.  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 25, 2019, 07:40:04 AM
They also say that ‘The Mandelorian’ episodes will be released one at at time week after week and not the binge style.

I prefer the binge model but this will have to do
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: axeman90210 on August 25, 2019, 08:38:49 AM
I'm the opposite, prefer the weekly release format. I like when everyone's watching the show at the same time/pace and you can have a proper discussion about the show, but when Netflix drops a whole new season on a Friday morning you either A) make yourself binge it that first weekend and you can take place in the brief pop culture zeitgeist conversation about that show, or B) watch it later on your own time. There's nothing wrong with watching a show in a vacuum, but I enjoy the communal aspect of watching an episode and then hopping online and seeing what friends and the couple TV critics that I follow thought of what we all just watched and where we think the show is going next. As it stands now, between streaming services mostly utilizing the binge model and the general more fractured nature of viewership due to how many more options we have than even ten years ago, it seems like the era of the "water-cooler" show is coming to an end. Game of Thrones might well have been the last.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 25, 2019, 10:39:52 AM
^^^^ you know, I dig and like that aspect as well and didn’t really think about that. The Walking Dead was like That for a few years. If this show is that well done then I can get onboard with another water cooler show. Totally ready for it.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 25, 2019, 01:13:08 PM
I'm the opposite, prefer the weekly release format. I like when everyone's watching the show at the same time/pace and you can have a proper discussion about the show, but when Netflix drops a whole new season on a Friday morning you either A) make yourself binge it that first weekend and you can take place in the brief pop culture zeitgeist conversation about that show, or B) watch it later on your own time. There's nothing wrong with watching a show in a vacuum, but I enjoy the communal aspect of watching an episode and then hopping online and seeing what friends and the couple TV critics that I follow thought of what we all just watched and where we think the show is going next. As it stands now, between streaming services mostly utilizing the binge model and the general more fractured nature of viewership due to how many more options we have than even ten years ago, it seems like the era of the "water-cooler" show is coming to an end. Game of Thrones might well have been the last.
Completely agree Bill, and that's why on balance I slightly prefer weekly shows.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on August 26, 2019, 02:02:52 PM
https://youtu.be/3n1T3HxHd7Y

A new The Rise of Skywalker teaser! :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Podaar on August 26, 2019, 02:52:45 PM
Darth Rey?  :mehlin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 26, 2019, 04:11:12 PM
The scene with a grid of 100 (ish) star destroyers is pretty cool.

And I want to see the outtakes from the scene where Rey flips her light saber open.  There have to be a couple where it didn't work.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on August 27, 2019, 06:07:50 PM
So does that mean Luke is resurrected into Rey?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 28, 2019, 03:33:44 PM
I like the theory that Rey is a clone. I think it fits pretty well with VII and VIII. I'm not usually one to hope for specific things, but I think that would be super cool!

With IX approaching, I am starting to get a bit of an itch to re-watch VII and VIII. I haven't seen TFA in about two years and I haven't seen TLJ since it was in theaters. I am curious to see how I feel about them, especially TLJ, after so long out of sight and mind.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 28, 2019, 03:42:44 PM
I quite liked both of them.  But when I am in the mood for Star Wars, Rogue One eclipsed them all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 29, 2019, 08:02:54 AM
Meanwhile, TSA bans new Coke bottles from carry-on and checked luggage:  https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tsa-bans-star-wars-galaxys-edge-coke-bottles-disneyland-disney-world-170038929.html
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 29, 2019, 08:36:59 AM
Oh dear lord.  TSA incompetence at its finest.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 29, 2019, 10:21:44 AM
Assuming normal soda bottles are ok for checked bags (they obviously can't be carried on), I have a hard time believing they will actually get removed from checked bags.  I wouldn't put much stock in these tweets.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 30, 2019, 11:19:59 AM
So, Abrams does not feel that Rian Johnson subverted anything in The Last Jedi.

Quote
J.J. Abrams Says Rian Johnson ‘Didn’t Derail’ the ‘Star Wars’ Story in ‘Last Jedi’

Abrams is clearing up the alleged friction between his movies and Johnson's "The Last Jedi."

Rian Johnson’s “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” surprised many fans by upending a lot of the expectations J.J. Abrams set in his trilogy starter “Star Wars: The Force Awakens.” Some fans have criticized Johnson for his creative choices, but Abrams tells the Associated Press that nothing Johnson executed in “The Last Jedi” threw off track the narrative that Lucasfilm planned for the latest trilogy since the beginning.

“The story that we’re telling, the story that we started to conceive when we did ‘The Force Awakens’ was allowed to continue,” Abrams said. “Episode VIII didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about.”

One decision Johnson made in “The Last Jedi” that threw fans for a loop was killing off Supreme Leader Snoke (Andy Serkis) without revealing any of the character’s backstory. Abrams’ introduction of the character in “The Force Awakens” led many fans to believe Snoke would be the primary antagonist of the trilogy (similar to Emperor Palpatine) and theorize about Snoke’s real identity. Johnson threw out fan theory speculation by simply killing the character without fanfare. Fans did not know it at the time, but Palpatine is now returning for “The Rise of Skywalker.” The way Abrams talks about it makes it sound like Palpatine’s return was always in the cards, which would mean Johnson’s decision to kill Snoke in “The Last Jedi” didn’t change the larger narrative at all.

The issue surrounding Rey’s parents is more pressing for fans. Many viewers spent the bulk of the wait in between “The Force Awakens” and “The Last Jedi” theorizing who Rey’s parents might be, only for Johnson’s script to have Kylo Ren (Adam Driver) reveal they were nobody special. In Kylo’s words, Rey’s parents were “filthy junk traders who sold [her] off for drinking money.”

Some “Star Wars” fans took “The Last Jedi” reveal to be Johnson ruining Rey’s character, while others were delightfully surprised that Rey was a common person and not a descendent of a Skywalker or Kenobi. And yet, fans of the Rey twist are now worried Abrams will retcon Johnson’s decision and reveal in “The Rise of Skywalker” that her parents were major characters.

“I will say there is more to the story [of Rey’s parentage] than you’ve seen,” Abrams said at Star Wars Celebration in April.

Abrams’ latest quote to ET Canada helps clear up the friction between his movies and Johnson’s “The Last Jedi.” Whatever ends up happening with Rey’s parents is not a retconning of Johnson’s script because “The Last Jedi” didn’t throw off Abrams’ plan for the new trilogy. Fans will find out how Abrams brings the Skywalker saga to its end when “The Rise of Skywalker” opens December 20.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/08/jj-abrams-rian-johnson-derail-star-wars-story-1202169944/

Personally, I am glad he came out and said this.  It ultimately doesn't change anything.  But I'm glad nonetheless.  I know others even here disagree.  But to me, I have found the fanboy handwringing over Rey's lineage, Snoke's death without more backstory, and/or the perceived "ruining" of Luke's character to be some of the most annoying criticisms of the Star Wars universe.  Personally, I liked The Last Jedi.  But I can absolutely acknowledge its weaknesses (the entire casino planet arc, anyone?).  But those three issues, which are certain the MOST complained about, aren't "flaws" at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 30, 2019, 11:31:25 AM
They're not flaws per se, but Johnson definitely took things in a different direction than most expected.  Not getting what you'd hoped for is one thing, but when the narrative seems to be moving in a certain direction and someone else steps in and says "Nah, we're doing this instead" it's more than just disappointment.  There were many things hinted at in Episode VII that were either concluded somewhat unsatisfactorily or completely ignored, and one could argue that that constitutes bad storytelling.

It seems entirely possible that JJ is saying this publicly to help downplay all the negative PR and help build up excitement for Episode IX.  Gotta keep things positive.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on August 30, 2019, 11:32:04 AM
I CALLED IT!!!   I loved The Last Jedi as well, but on the day I walked out of the theater, I remember telling everyone "He was playing mind games.  Telling her she was a nobody was just a way of trying to undermine her belief in herself.  HE. WAS. LYING. To get into her head."

But everyone went with the surface interpretation.   

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 30, 2019, 11:54:16 AM
They're not flaws per se, but Johnson definitely took things in a different direction than most expected.  Not getting what you'd hoped for is one thing, but when the narrative seems to be moving in a certain direction and someone else steps in and says "Nah, we're doing this instead" it's more than just disappointment.  There were many things hinted at in Episode VII that were either concluded somewhat unsatisfactorily or completely ignored, and one could argue that that constitutes bad storytelling.

Yeah, one could argue that.  But that's shortsighted, and really amounts to trying to pin blame on someone else for the fact that "one" simply didn't like it.  I think this guy nailed it in his comment:  "The main issue is right there in the first sentence "upended fans expectations". So many people had their own 'script' made up already in their minds and got mad when the movie didn't fit their narrative."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on August 30, 2019, 11:59:28 AM
It is worth remembering that Abrams got an "Executive Producer" credit on TLJ. Sure Abrams didn't know that he would be coming back to end the trilogy, but i'm sure they have had some communication about the trajectory of the story, both pre-TLJ and post-TLJ.

Abrams also said in some other interview something akin to: being inspired by Johnson to not play it safe with TRoS and take some creative risks. And bringing back Uncle Palps is pretty risky. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 30, 2019, 12:12:22 PM
Personally, I am glad he came out and said this.  It ultimately doesn't change anything.  But I'm glad nonetheless.  I know others even here disagree.  But to me, I have found the fanboy handwringing over Rey's lineage, Snoke's death without more backstory, and/or the perceived "ruining" of Luke's character to be some of the most annoying criticisms of the Star Wars universe.  Personally, I liked The Last Jedi.  But I can absolutely acknowledge its weaknesses (the entire casino planet arc, anyone?).  But those three issues, which are certain the MOST complained about, aren't "flaws" at all.

I've said it before.  WAY too many fans decided that the story should progress in a certain way and then, when that didn't happen, they decided someone had screwed things up.  As someone I know once wrote, "let the story guide me."  All of the noise about this failed to appreciate that we've only gotten two parts of a trilogy.

Also, just because KR said her parents were nothing doesn't mean it's true.


I CALLED IT!!!   I loved The Last Jedi as well, but on the day I walked out of the theater, I remember telling everyone "He was playing mind games.  Telling her she was a nobody was just a way of trying to undermine her belief in herself.  HE. WAS. LYING. To get into her head."

But everyone went with the surface interpretation.   

Exactly.  Even the article said, "Kylo Ren reveal[ed] they were nobody special," as opposed to "claimed."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 30, 2019, 12:32:45 PM
They're not flaws per se, but Johnson definitely took things in a different direction than most expected.  Not getting what you'd hoped for is one thing, but when the narrative seems to be moving in a certain direction and someone else steps in and says "Nah, we're doing this instead" it's more than just disappointment.  There were many things hinted at in Episode VII that were either concluded somewhat unsatisfactorily or completely ignored, and one could argue that that constitutes bad storytelling.

Yeah, one could argue that.  But that's shortsighted, and really amounts to trying to pin blame on someone else for the fact that "one" simply didn't like it.  I think this guy nailed it in his comment:  "The main issue is right there in the first sentence "upended fans expectations". So many people had their own 'script' made up already in their minds and got mad when the movie didn't fit their narrative."

To be clear, I'm not "one" of them.  I'm pretty much in the middle on the whole issue.  I think fans who screaming bloody murder and betrayal are going too far, but I think they have some legitimate gripes.

I don't call it bad storytelling just because I didn't like it.  There are some amazing, brilliant movies out there that I don't like.  But when a large portion of a movie's fanbase doesn't like it, or has multiple legitimate complaints about it, maybe there's something wrong with the storytelling.  Or are you saying that just because you did like it that no one else's complaints are legit?

Star Wars has traditionally been very straightforward storytelling.  Sure, "upending expectations" can be a good thing.  But this isn't just that.  Things in VII were built up and then literally ignored in VIII.  No resolution, no follow-up at all.  So maybe they'll be answered in IX.  If they aren't, then the complaints were legit.  If they are, then I'd still say that not even following up with anything even hinting at resolution in VIII is bad storytelling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 30, 2019, 12:49:38 PM
Star Wars has traditionally been very straightforward storytelling.  Sure, "upending expectations" can be a good thing.  But this isn't just that.  Things in VII were built up and then literally ignored in VIII.  No resolution, no follow-up at all.  So maybe they'll be answered in IX.  If they aren't, then the complaints were legit.  If they are, then I'd still say that not even following up with anything even hinting at resolution in VIII is bad storytelling.

I wouldn't say that at all.  Not everything needs explanation or resolution.  On the contrary, I think that trying to explain and resolve every little loose end is more lazy storytelling than the more "real world" approach of just letting things play out, and resolving the major themes.  And often, we don't know for sure what those are until the end.  There should be unexpected twists and turns along the way rather than everything being neat and tidy, because that's how life is.  Things may be hinted at and dropped for any number of reasons.  Maybe it is intentional misdirection.  Maybe it is just a thread that, once it was started, they realized it didn't really pay off and they thought of something better.  Heck, as good a job as the MCU did at paying off seemingly meaningless threads, they even had some of that as well (for example, the infinity gauntlet originally seen in Odin's vault, which they later had an issue with once they decided they were going the Infinity War route, so they had to retcon that a bit by having Hela call it a fake in Ragnarok).  And sometimes, there IS a payoff, but it comes later rather than immediately.  Again, none of those things are necessarily "bad writing" just because fans wanted or expected something they didn't get.

Or are you saying that just because you did like it that no one else's complaints are legit?

No, not at all.  I think the above clarifies it.  But in general, I think people just complain too much anyway.  You don't like it?  Cool.  Don't like it then.  That doesn't mean it sucks or that there is something wrong with the artist that created it.  It just means you didn't like it.  There doesn't have to be a scapegoat for that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on August 30, 2019, 06:16:09 PM
As Johnson sucks off Abrams and begs him not to bash him....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on September 01, 2019, 03:30:56 PM
Star Wars has traditionally been very straightforward storytelling.
The Empire Strikes Back would like to have a word with you.

Quote
Sure, "upending expectations" can be a good thing.  But this isn't just that.  Things in VII were built up and then literally ignored in VIII.  No resolution, no follow-up at all.  So maybe they'll be answered in IX.  If they aren't, then the complaints were legit.  If they are, then I'd still say that not even following up with anything even hinting at resolution in VIII is bad storytelling.
Why? VIII wasn't the end of the series, so why would anyone expect it to resolve anything, let alone everything? And if things aren't answered/resolved satisfactorily by the end of IX, sure there could be reasonable complaints but at the trilogy as a whole.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on September 02, 2019, 06:07:28 AM
I loved TFA and would consider TLJ one of the biggest disappointments of my time, but I still have faith in JJ and the rest to turn it around and make a satisfying end to this trilogy. It's weird with Disney though, I thought Rogue One was bad, Solo was pretty meh and I didn't like TLJ but I'm still hyped and I still think they can do something good.  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 03, 2019, 09:35:54 AM
After some recent rewatching, I remain steadfast in my opinion that The Last Jedi is fantastic, second only to The Empire Strikes Back among the Star Wars films.  The two films are great for many of the same reasons, as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 03, 2019, 10:03:46 AM
I remain steadfast in my opinion that The Last Jedi is fantastic, second only to The Empire Strikes Back among the Star Wars films. 

Right there with ya. Each time I re-watch TLJ I appreciate it more and more. In my eyes, it's the most complete actual 'movie' of the entire series. Meaning....it's the only one (IMO) that is more than surface deep. The others are very 'shallow' in the aspect of what you see is what you get whereas I think Johnson did a fantastic job of layering TLJ.....ESPECIALLY with Luke.

But I'm well aware of the criticisms of the film....and am glad those don't bother me the way they do others. I really like TFA and am looking forward to the final film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on September 03, 2019, 11:50:38 AM
After some recent rewatching, I remain steadfast in my opinion that The Last Jedi is fantastic, second only to The Empire Strikes Back among the Star Wars films.  The two films are great for many of the same reasons, as well.

Yup (although I think I'd be hard pressed to rank TLJ over ANH, it would be close, and there's no question for me that TLJ is no worse than the third best Star Wars movie).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on September 03, 2019, 02:28:49 PM
After some recent rewatching, I remain steadfast in my opinion that The Last Jedi is fantastic, second only to The Empire Strikes Back among the Star Wars films.  The two films are great for many of the same reasons, as well.
Agreed on all counts. :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on September 08, 2019, 12:29:19 PM
So, Abrams does not feel that Rian Johnson subverted anything in The Last Jedi.

Quote
J.J. Abrams Says Rian Johnson ‘Didn’t Derail’ the ‘Star Wars’ Story in ‘Last Jedi’

Abrams is clearing up the alleged friction between his movies and Johnson's "The Last Jedi."

Rian Johnson’s “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” surprised many fans by upending a lot of the expectations J.J. Abrams set in his trilogy starter “Star Wars: The Force Awakens.” Some fans have criticized Johnson for his creative choices, but Abrams tells the Associated Press that nothing Johnson executed in “The Last Jedi” threw off track the narrative that Lucasfilm planned for the latest trilogy since the beginning.

“The story that we’re telling, the story that we started to conceive when we did ‘The Force Awakens’ was allowed to continue,” Abrams said. “Episode VIII didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about.”

One decision Johnson made in “The Last Jedi” that threw fans for a loop was killing off Supreme Leader Snoke (Andy Serkis) without revealing any of the character’s backstory. Abrams’ introduction of the character in “The Force Awakens” led many fans to believe Snoke would be the primary antagonist of the trilogy (similar to Emperor Palpatine) and theorize about Snoke’s real identity. Johnson threw out fan theory speculation by simply killing the character without fanfare. Fans did not know it at the time, but Palpatine is now returning for “The Rise of Skywalker.” The way Abrams talks about it makes it sound like Palpatine’s return was always in the cards, which would mean Johnson’s decision to kill Snoke in “The Last Jedi” didn’t change the larger narrative at all.

The issue surrounding Rey’s parents is more pressing for fans. Many viewers spent the bulk of the wait in between “The Force Awakens” and “The Last Jedi” theorizing who Rey’s parents might be, only for Johnson’s script to have Kylo Ren (Adam Driver) reveal they were nobody special. In Kylo’s words, Rey’s parents were “filthy junk traders who sold [her] off for drinking money.”

Some “Star Wars” fans took “The Last Jedi” reveal to be Johnson ruining Rey’s character, while others were delightfully surprised that Rey was a common person and not a descendent of a Skywalker or Kenobi. And yet, fans of the Rey twist are now worried Abrams will retcon Johnson’s decision and reveal in “The Rise of Skywalker” that her parents were major characters.

“I will say there is more to the story [of Rey’s parentage] than you’ve seen,” Abrams said at Star Wars Celebration in April.

Abrams’ latest quote to ET Canada helps clear up the friction between his movies and Johnson’s “The Last Jedi.” Whatever ends up happening with Rey’s parents is not a retconning of Johnson’s script because “The Last Jedi” didn’t throw off Abrams’ plan for the new trilogy. Fans will find out how Abrams brings the Skywalker saga to its end when “The Rise of Skywalker” opens December 20.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/08/jj-abrams-rian-johnson-derail-star-wars-story-1202169944/

Personally, I am glad he came out and said this.  It ultimately doesn't change anything.  But I'm glad nonetheless.  I know others even here disagree.  But to me, I have found the fanboy handwringing over Rey's lineage, Snoke's death without more backstory, and/or the perceived "ruining" of Luke's character to be some of the most annoying criticisms of the Star Wars universe.  Personally, I liked The Last Jedi.  But I can absolutely acknowledge its weaknesses (the entire casino planet arc, anyone?).  But those three issues, which are certain the MOST complained about, aren't "flaws" at all.


I think I already mentioned this a few pages back, but a report came out earlier this year that basically said "Grumpy Luke" was always a part of the plan, even within George Lucas's original story outline. That doesn't mean you have to like how Luke was handled, but it certainly pokes a hole in the idea that Johnson recklessly went off script and ruined Like single-handedly.

On a side note, I told a colleague about my plan to re-watch the new Star Wars movies soon, and of course we started chatting about our opinions. This particular guy said that they got Luke's character wrong in TLJ... And that Luke should have been a badass who "ignited the green" and started cutting people down like "Darth Vader at the end of Rogue One". This is actually something I've heard from a lot of people, which is super confusing to me, because I feel like that would be an even bigger betrayal of his character than how he was portrayed in TLJ. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 10, 2019, 07:50:08 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 10, 2019, 09:25:34 AM
And that Luke should have been a badass who "ignited the green" and started cutting people down like "Darth Vader at the end of Rogue One". This is actually something I've heard from a lot of people

I will admit that I was one of those people. I had this notion in my mind that they were going to portray Luke as this 'Ultimate Jedi Warrior' and he was just going to have these immaculate light saber fight scenes and powerful demonstrations of the force. My first viewing of the movie I was really 'upset' at the way it all went down.

Then, I saw it again the next day and that second watch once 'my' thoughts on how it 'should' have been done were out of the way.....made me appreciate what they did with him. He truly was an 'ultimate Jedi Warrior' and he did demonstrate incredible power of the force. I've thought his story/arc was perfect every since.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on September 10, 2019, 11:25:57 AM
Has anyone here read the Aftermath series?  I have heard about it and read a brief synopsis of the "history" of the period between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, but had not read this trilogy until recently.  I only just finished the first book, and it's a really fun read.  I think it does a really good job of portraying a realistic aftermath of the battle of Endor would look like, and the consequences to the Empire, the Alliance/Rebellion, and the rest of the galaxy.  And at the same time, it manages to tell a fun story.  If anyone is jonesing for some pre-TFA Star Wars story to set the stage for The Rise of Skywalker, I would highly recommend it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 11, 2019, 01:43:36 PM
Has anyone here read the Aftermath series?  I have heard about it and read a brief synopsis of the "history" of the period between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, but had not read this trilogy until recently.  I only just finished the first book, and it's a really fun read.  I think it does a really good job of portraying a realistic aftermath of the battle of Endor would look like, and the consequences to the Empire, the Alliance/Rebellion, and the rest of the galaxy.  And at the same time, it manages to tell a fun story.  If anyone is jonesing for some pre-TFA Star Wars story to set the stage for The Rise of Skywalker, I would highly recommend it.
Haven't read it, but I wouldn't mind doing so when I get some time/clear space on my reading list.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: axeman90210 on September 11, 2019, 02:46:30 PM
Does anybody know what the deal is with the Clone Wars show? I recently got the urge to finally go and check it out, and it looks like it's off Netflix but I also haven't seen any mention of plans for it to be on Disney+
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on September 11, 2019, 03:08:48 PM
I don't see why it wouldn't be on D+.  I hope it doesn't fall through the cracks, because I haven't seen a lot of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on September 11, 2019, 06:06:04 PM
They are making a new, final season for the Clone Wars series on Disney+. I believe all the other seasons will be on it as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 11, 2019, 07:01:26 PM
They are making a new, final season for the Clone Wars series on Disney+. I believe all the other seasons will be on it as well.

I may rewatch it all. I LOVED the Clone War series.....and there’s a good chance I may be in love with Ahsoka
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on September 12, 2019, 12:10:28 PM
They are making a new, final season for the Clone Wars series on Disney+. I believe all the other seasons will be on it as well.

I may rewatch it all. I LOVED the Clone War series.....and there’s a good chance I may be in love with Ahsoka

This. I actually just started my re-watch. Almost done with Season 1.  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: orcus116 on September 23, 2019, 06:47:06 PM
Kind of a side tangent but I got to go into Galaxy's Edge at Hollywood Studios in Disney and they did a really great job at building an incredibly detailed setpiece to walk around in. The street performances are neat since you constantly have storm troopers and Kylo Ren walking around asking guests if they've seen rebels roaming around while you have cast members dressed as Rey and other rebels weaving in and out of the crowd and hiding around buildings/crates like you're in the middle of a big play.

The only ride, Smuggler's Run, is a bit lackluster even though it's a good idea wrapped up in the fact that a couple of people in your group could shorten the whole experience by not paying attention. For anyone who doesn't know you're set up in a "crew" of six people who each have jobs running a ship for a bounty hunter/smuggler dude so you're all basically in control of the ride experience meaning a pilot can actually crash the damn thing if they're not paying attention. It's a good attempt but I could see the whole thing being heavily tweaked as most people are lukewarm on it and considering Disney knocked it out of the park with Flight of Passage in Pandora they should really step it up for their own actual IP.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on September 24, 2019, 06:39:31 AM
Heading to Galaxy's Edge today in Disneyland. I know they are working on another ride that's supposed to be fantastic and the longest ride in any Disney park from what I understand. Opening later this year.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on September 26, 2019, 01:51:55 AM
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/marvel-s-kevin-feige-developing-star-wars-movie-disney-1243481

Kevin Feige moves over to Lucasfilm to co-develop a Star Wars movie with Kathleen Kennedy! I don't think that he is planning to step away from Marvel forever though..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 01, 2019, 02:23:26 PM
So I got linked to a RedLetterMedia video from some other YouTube videos I was watching a little while back.  I listened to a few from their Half in the Bag series, as well as their Rise of Skywalker "predictions" video.  My opinion has not changed since I first saw one of theirs a long while back.  They are just incredibly juvenile and unfunny, and I'm not sure why they even have an audience.  But more to the point, they can't even get half of their facts about what actually happened in the films correct and, by their own admissions, don't even care about Star Wars anymore.  In the end, I couldn't really take any of their criticisms seriously.  Just seemed like pretty standard, tired Internet whining to me. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on October 02, 2019, 01:43:05 PM
Kind of a side tangent but I got to go into Galaxy's Edge at Hollywood Studios in Disney and they did a really great job at building an incredibly detailed setpiece to walk around in. The street performances are neat since you constantly have storm troopers and Kylo Ren walking around asking guests if they've seen rebels roaming around while you have cast members dressed as Rey and other rebels weaving in and out of the crowd and hiding around buildings/crates like you're in the middle of a big play.

The only ride, Smuggler's Run, is a bit lackluster even though it's a good idea wrapped up in the fact that a couple of people in your group could shorten the whole experience by not paying attention. For anyone who doesn't know you're set up in a "crew" of six people who each have jobs running a ship for a bounty hunter/smuggler dude so you're all basically in control of the ride experience meaning a pilot can actually crash the damn thing if they're not paying attention. It's a good attempt but I could see the whole thing being heavily tweaked as most people are lukewarm on it and considering Disney knocked it out of the park with Flight of Passage in Pandora they should really step it up for their own actual IP.
I got to hang out in the Galaxy's Edge area of Disneyland a few different times over the last week and a half and I can say that it's absolutely incredible what they've done to make it feel like you're in a Star Wars movie. It was a really enjoyable experience overall. Seeing the Falcon sitting there, and Chewie trying to avoid being seen by Stormtroopers was really cool. I didn't see any other characters unfortunately. I agree that the Smuggler's Run ride wasn't as good as I hoped it would be, but was still fun. Walking into the waiting area, which is modeled after the interior of the Falcon was more enjoyable than the ride itself. Though I will say that I got chills when I got to pull down the lever to make the jump to hyperspace. Hopefully the ride can be modified over the years to add new missions and increase the fun in riding it multiple times. I'm really looking forward to the second ride opening, though it's unlikely I'll be able to get there anytime soon to go on it. Too damn expensive.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 15, 2019, 08:28:04 AM
So I finally got around to that Last Jedi rewatch I alluded to earlier. I was only able to watch the first hour, but the main thing that stood out is how much humor there is. For me personally, they probably could have toned it down a bit. Some bits - such as Luke slapping away Rey's hand during training - are genuinely hilarious, but some fell a bit flat for me. Otherwise, I must say that I generally enjoyed the first third of the film!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on October 21, 2019, 11:33:19 AM
Final Rise of Skywalker trailer dropping tonight during half time of MNF. Also tickets go on sale today as well!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 21, 2019, 11:36:13 AM
:caffeine: 

Oh, and also:

:caffeine:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 21, 2019, 04:50:55 PM
Final Rise of Skywalker trailer dropping tonight during half time of MNF. Also tickets go on sale today as well!

Yeah I just saw the trailer of the trailer, kind of pointless but I am HYPED!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on October 21, 2019, 06:16:13 PM
Can't wait for the movie! already got my tickets for opening night! Two month wait will be torture.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 21, 2019, 07:57:55 PM


FINAL TRAILER:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qn_spdM5Zg

 :metal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on October 22, 2019, 05:26:56 AM
I'm so damn excited for this movie. It better be good!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 22, 2019, 06:23:23 AM
I'm really pumped for the movie, not just for the movie itself, but for the experience. Now that Avengers and Game of Thrones are finished, Star Wars will be the last thing for a while that basically everyone goes to see (unless I am forgetting something).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 22, 2019, 06:43:02 AM
That trailer looks great!!  I have full confidence JJ will pull this off...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Chino on October 22, 2019, 06:50:56 AM
I'm really pumped for the movie, not just for the movie itself, but for the experience. Now that Avengers and Game of Thrones are finished, Star Wars will be the last thing for a while that basically everyone goes to see (unless I am forgetting something).

:chino:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 22, 2019, 07:02:51 AM
I'm really pumped for the movie, not just for the movie itself, but for the experience. Now that Avengers and Game of Thrones are finished, Star Wars will be the last thing for a while that basically everyone goes to see (unless I am forgetting something).

:chino:

That one too. It’s gonna be insane
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 22, 2019, 07:40:35 AM
I'm really pumped for the movie, not just for the movie itself, but for the experience. Now that Avengers and Game of Thrones are finished, Star Wars will be the last thing for a while that basically everyone goes to see (unless I am forgetting something).

:chino:

Did somebody say "pointless" somewhere in the thread?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 22, 2019, 07:58:34 AM
LOVED the trailer.  Can't wait to see this film!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 22, 2019, 08:00:18 AM
Yup, it did it's job--showed enough to make you excited for the film without really giving too much plot away.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2019, 08:07:10 AM
Sigh. I mean... yeah it looks epic. But I know so little about these characters that I just can't get excited about it. Cool visuals, that's about all I've got so far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on October 22, 2019, 08:07:55 AM
Sigh. I mean... yeah it looks epic. But I know so little about these characters that I just can't get excited about it. Cool visuals, that's about all I've got so far.

Similar here.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on October 22, 2019, 08:15:07 AM
I was hyped to go see Last Jedi and left disappointed. Nothing they have shown so far has gotten me re-interested to go see this next one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: T-ski on October 22, 2019, 08:21:17 AM
Curious what you all think the importance of Rey's lineage is in regards to the story line.

To me I feel it's of zero importance, and I feel they are forcing that arc upon us.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on October 22, 2019, 08:23:36 AM
I got my tickets for the Saturday afternoon (earliest showing with decent seats left) but I’m not nearly as pumped for this as everyone else seems to be.

I gotta give JJ credit. He has mastered the art of creating things enjoyable to the most amount of people. But I also think that’s an issue with me. Little of what he does seems very inspired. It seems more like a brilliant dude found a genius way to make what has the most mass appeal. So many of his movies (though certainly not all) feel like the best possible product of a board meeting dictating fan expectations. Like his movies are amazing candy. You get a great sugar rush and it tastes awesome but there’s little that stays with you or feeds you.

Also might just be me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 22, 2019, 08:32:03 AM
I got my tickets for the Saturday afternoon (earliest showing with decent seats left) but I’m not nearly as pumped for this as everyone else seems to be.

I gotta give JJ credit. He has mastered the art of creating things enjoyable to the most amount of people. But I also think that’s an issue with me. Little of what he does seems very inspired. It seems more like a brilliant dude found a genius way to make what has the most mass appeal. So many of his movies (though certainly not all) feel like the best possible product of a board meeting dictating fan expectations. Like his movies are amazing candy. You get a great sugar rush and it tastes awesome but there’s little that stays with you or feeds you.

Also might just be me.

I don't think it's just you at all. While I usually enjoy (and sometimes really enjoy) his movies, I totally get where you're coming from. The interesting thing to me is that I feel as though Rian Johnson genuinely tried a different approach with TLJ, and it obviously didn't work out so well for many people. Ultimately, I think that there is a very delicate line with these Star Wars movies. Maybe an impossible line, even.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 22, 2019, 08:34:24 AM
I got my tickets for the Saturday afternoon (earliest showing with decent seats left) but I’m not nearly as pumped for this as everyone else seems to be.

I gotta give JJ credit. He has mastered the art of creating things enjoyable to the most amount of people. But I also think that’s an issue with me. Little of what he does seems very inspired. It seems more like a brilliant dude found a genius way to make what has the most mass appeal. So many of his movies (though certainly not all) feel like the best possible product of a board meeting dictating fan expectations. Like his movies are amazing candy. You get a great sugar rush and it tastes awesome but there’s little that stays with you or feeds you.

Also might just be me.

I don't really have a problem with that description.  But I also don't really have a problem with that concept either.  It's Star Wars, so it's meant to be a fun rush, and not really meant to "feed" you.  It is movie candy.  And that can still be very satisfying, but for very different reasons than something that inspires serious thought, or reflection, or provokes "deeper" emotions. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2019, 08:38:56 AM
The Force Awakens is a total candy rush but not in a good way. First time I saw it I was floored by the visuals and the action. And then second viewing... wait a minute. It's just a remake of the old trilogy right down to the discovery and destruction of a planet sized weapon in one film. Like they're just cramming ten pounds of "hey remember this?! REMEMBER THIS?!" into a five pound bag that's already stuffed with bland undeveloped material as is. I can't wait to once again not know anything about Poe or Finn by the end of this movie or learn anything else about Snoke or Captain Phasma or Maz Tanaka... rabble rabble rabble I know I'm being grumpy but c'mon these movies have been so f'ing lazy outside of visuals and scared to death to break out of the Skywalkers and all things related to the first three films
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 22, 2019, 08:39:26 AM
I got my tickets for the Saturday afternoon (earliest showing with decent seats left) but I’m not nearly as pumped for this as everyone else seems to be.

I gotta give JJ credit. He has mastered the art of creating things enjoyable to the most amount of people. But I also think that’s an issue with me. Little of what he does seems very inspired. It seems more like a brilliant dude found a genius way to make what has the most mass appeal. So many of his movies (though certainly not all) feel like the best possible product of a board meeting dictating fan expectations. Like his movies are amazing candy. You get a great sugar rush and it tastes awesome but there’s little that stays with you or feeds you.

Also might just be me.

I don't really have a problem with that description.  But I also don't really have a problem with that concept either.  It's Star Wars, so it's meant to be a fun rush, and not really meant to "feed" you.  It is movie candy.  And that can still be very satisfying, but for very different reasons than something that inspires serious thought, or reflection, or provokes "deeper" emotions.

I agree with Bosk here. Adami has a point but I don't think it's a bad thing. It's Star Wars. I mean, have you watched the OT lately? Those aren't exactly pillars of thespian performances or character development. They're fun movies....cool stories....and where I disagree with Katt on this is I think this 'new' batch of characters has had enough development to garner some feelings for them.

As far as what TheOutlaw brings up about RJ's approach to TLJ.....i think it produced the best 'movie' out of all the efforts....for me. R1 is a close second.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on October 22, 2019, 08:46:58 AM
I got my tickets for the Saturday afternoon (earliest showing with decent seats left) but I’m not nearly as pumped for this as everyone else seems to be.

I gotta give JJ credit. He has mastered the art of creating things enjoyable to the most amount of people. But I also think that’s an issue with me. Little of what he does seems very inspired. It seems more like a brilliant dude found a genius way to make what has the most mass appeal. So many of his movies (though certainly not all) feel like the best possible product of a board meeting dictating fan expectations. Like his movies are amazing candy. You get a great sugar rush and it tastes awesome but there’s little that stays with you or feeds you.

Also might just be me.

I don't really have a problem with that description.  But I also don't really have a problem with that concept either.  It's Star Wars, so it's meant to be a fun rush, and not really meant to "feed" you.  It is movie candy.  And that can still be very satisfying, but for very different reasons than something that inspires serious thought, or reflection, or provokes "deeper" emotions.

I agree with Bosk here. Adami has a point but I don't think it's a bad thing. It's Star Wars. I mean, have you watched the OT lately? Those aren't exactly pillars of thespian performances or character development. They're fun movies....cool stories....and where I disagree with Katt on this is I think this 'new' batch of characters has had enough development to garner some feelings for them.

I'm with both Adami and Katt on this.  The difference with the OT (relating to what G says above), is that the OT was groundbreaking and original for its time.  The PT was also ground-breaking (to some extent) as it took the eye-candy experience to another level (given the technological improvements for fx and film-making), and gave us an entirely new Star Wars experience (visually) ... albeit at the expense of telling a good story.  This trilogy is achieves neither of those things.

I'll go see it in the theatre, but I'll be stepping over my expectations on my way in the door.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 22, 2019, 08:48:09 AM
Yeah, I don't agree with any of that (Katt and Jingle).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2019, 08:59:36 AM
I can't name a single interesting thing about any of the characters. Not a one. Absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 22, 2019, 09:05:09 AM
That's about how I have felt about pretty much any Bond character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MoraWintersoul on October 22, 2019, 09:50:22 AM
OT: All three of them are hot in their own way.
NT: All three of them are hot in their own way.

Next question  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 22, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
While I potentially agree that none of the characters in the ST are as interesting as, say, Han Solo or Darth Vader, I still enjoy them because I really like each of the actors. Their performances are definitely worth something, at least to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on October 22, 2019, 10:11:55 AM
Since I won the electoral college in a landslide in 2016, I feel it's up to me to break the tie between Bosk/Gary and Jingle/Katt... and the winner is....   Jingle and Katt.

I was ready to concede out the gate that it's age, but with Katt in tow, it kind of shoots that theory...  it might have been cartoony, but it wasn't shallow; you knew enough to form the pillars of good story-telling.  And there was tension; Leia had a problem (Vader) that needed solving, and Ben, Luke, Han and Chewie were there to help.  But could Ben be trusted (hanging out in the sand like he did)?  Could Luke be trusted (that impulsive youth who couldn't bother with training, just wanted to fly like his dad)?  Could Han be trusted (smuggler who might or might not have shot a guy in cold blood and whose guiding force seems to be money)?   Could Chewie be trusted (and if he could, how would you know)? 

Lucas is no dummy.   Stormtroopers in anonymous masks destroying entire farms.  The evil guy in the anonymous mask choking people - friend AND foe alike - to get his way.  Young blonde idealist fighting with his parental figures for his freedom.  Young. punky girl (it WAS 1977) giving the metaphorical finger to the "Establishment" "Evil Empire".  It was magical, really. Simple in the way that the best rock and roll is "simple", but, also like the best rock and roll, effective and to the point.  I think the first film is one of the best movies ever produced.  But when you retreat old ground, it's infinitely harder.   You're carrying the baggage of what came before.  You cannot help but compare Kylo to Vader, and Daisy to Luke.  It's inevitable. 

To me, that makes it almost impossible for Abrams to bring anything radically new to the equation, so it really leaves two options:  instill that subtle, intuitive tension into the familiar parts of the equation (can Rey be trusted?  Finn?), or simply pander to the fans wishes.   I have to go back to The Force Awakens to watch it again, but my recollection is that it tried to dance the line, but erred on the side of pander.

I have not seen the Last Jedi yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on October 22, 2019, 10:29:25 AM
I have not seen the Last Jedi yet.

You haven't missed anything.  It's a poor man's version of ESB, with too many plot holes to overlook - ones that you can drive a tank thru.  But there is one really cool scene.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2019, 10:30:05 AM
That's about how I have felt about pretty much any Bond character.

Weird flex but okay - that doesn't excuse Star Wars' laziness :P
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 22, 2019, 10:39:25 AM
Since I won the electoral college in a landslide in 2016, I feel it's up to me to break the tie between Bosk/Gary and Jingle/Katt... and the winner is....   Jingle and Katt.

I was ready to concede out the gate that it's age, but with Katt in tow, it kind of shoots that theory...  it might have been cartoony, but it wasn't shallow; you knew enough to form the pillars of good story-telling.  And there was tension; Leia had a problem (Vader) that needed solving, and Ben, Luke, Han and Chewie were there to help.  But could Ben be trusted (hanging out in the sand like he did)?  Could Luke be trusted (that impulsive youth who couldn't bother with training, just wanted to fly like his dad)?  Could Han be trusted (smuggler who might or might not have shot a guy in cold blood and whose guiding force seems to be money)?   Could Chewie be trusted (and if he could, how would you know)? 

Lucas is no dummy.   Stormtroopers in anonymous masks destroying entire farms.  The evil guy in the anonymous mask choking people - friend AND foe alike - to get his way.  Young blonde idealist fighting with his parental figures for his freedom.  Young. punky girl (it WAS 1977) giving the metaphorical finger to the "Establishment" "Evil Empire".  It was magical, really. Simple in the way that the best rock and roll is "simple", but, also like the best rock and roll, effective and to the point.  I think the first film is one of the best movies ever produced.  But when you retreat old ground, it's infinitely harder.   You're carrying the baggage of what came before.  You cannot help but compare Kylo to Vader, and Daisy to Luke.  It's inevitable. 

To me, that makes it almost impossible for Abrams to bring anything radically new to the equation, so it really leaves two options:  instill that subtle, intuitive tension into the familiar parts of the equation (can Rey be trusted?  Finn?), or simply pander to the fans wishes.   I have to go back to The Force Awakens to watch it again, but my recollection is that it tried to dance the line, but erred on the side of pander.

I have not seen the Last Jedi yet.

I don't really disagree with the substance of anything you said.  But I also just don't view it as a problem, or as "lazy," or anything negative.

That's about how I have felt about pretty much any Bond character.

Weird flex but okay - that doesn't excuse Star Wars' laziness :P

:lol  Well, what I was trying to say is simply that, similar to how you rightly corrected me recently when I pointed out that Bond films felt kind of formulaic and tired (I didn't go quite that far, but some others in the thread did) and thus didn't really do anything that appealed to me, you pointed out that that's really only a very cursory and simplistic way of viewing the series, and I'm just saying that I think your description of Star Wars is similarly cursory and simplistic.  I'm not saying you are "wrong," just as you weren't really saying that my feeling about Bond were "wrong."  No biggie.  I just kind of feel like people maybe take how big a phenomenon Star Wars is, and project higher expectations on it because of that, and then critics blast it or write it off harder than maybe it deserves because of that.  But, heck, we do that with things all the time (me with Bond, for example). 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2019, 10:48:18 AM
In my defense, I left it at 'simplistic' as you put it because I've gone over my many issues with Star Wars in the past and didn't want to beat the dead horse (too much)  :lol

But like seriously, even though I sound like a broken record... 9 films. One lineage. An entire galaxy you could explore and they just don't. This last trilogy... it's been trying, I guess, to kind of build up new characters, but they just cannot let go of the freaking Skywalkers, Chewbacca, Lando, R2D2, C3PO, oh my god, do something new. Wait! They did. Emperor Snoke looked so cool aaaaaand nope he's gone, out like a light. Captain Phasma, ooh, shiny armoh no RIP I guess. Several hours of screen time and almost no character development done for anybody other than maybe Kylo and Rey, and even they are just kind of... template characters doing the best with what a mediocre script has to offer. Entire scenes in TFA and TLJ completely unnecessary and adding nothing to the overall story or development of characters. I just don't get it man. This universe has so much freaking potential and they never actually try to squeeze that delicious juice out of it, they just keep making the same thing and it annoys me to death that something this popular and beloved ignores so many cool potential film storylines in favor of retreading the Skywalkers for the third trilogy in a row.

Now look at what you've made me do, bosk. I've beaten that horse into trillions of atoms once again.  :lol No knock on anybody who's excited for it, just putting a different view out there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on October 22, 2019, 10:50:14 AM
I got my ticket for Friday night...GREAT way to start two weeks off from work!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on October 22, 2019, 11:32:45 AM
 :lol Just dropping by to say that the trailer pushed all the right buttons for me, while not revealing too much! And i dig the new trilogy thus far, mostly because the characters are far more interesting to me compared to their prequel counterparts.

Can't wait for December! :metal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 22, 2019, 12:11:30 PM
But like seriously, even though I sound like a broken record... 9 films. One lineage. An entire galaxy you could explore and they just don't. This last trilogy... it's been trying, I guess, to kind of build up new characters, but they just cannot let go of the freaking Skywalkers, Chewbacca, Lando, R2D2, C3PO, oh my god, do something new.
"New" is coming.

But they couldn't start with "new" when fans still love Luke, Leia, Chewy, Han, R2, and 3PO.  If Disney had come out of the gate with "new" without dealing with the OT characters, they would have had a mess on their hands, and I for one would be quite upset.

I don't get your outrage.  This trilogy is dispensing with the Skywalker Saga.  Then, everything that comes after (which will be plenty) will be "new".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2019, 12:21:13 PM
But like seriously, even though I sound like a broken record... 9 films. One lineage. An entire galaxy you could explore and they just don't. This last trilogy... it's been trying, I guess, to kind of build up new characters, but they just cannot let go of the freaking Skywalkers, Chewbacca, Lando, R2D2, C3PO, oh my god, do something new.
"New" is coming.

But they couldn't start with "new" when fans still love Luke, Leia, Chewy, Han, R2, and 3PO.  If Disney had come out of the gate with "new" without dealing with the OT characters, they would have had a mess on their hands, and I for one would be quite upset.

I don't get your outrage.  This trilogy is dispensing with the Skywalker Saga.  Then, everything that comes after (which will be plenty) will be "new".

Well, first, it's not outrage, I'm just annoyed. But, point taken. Let's look at the EU and all the cool characters and events there. I think there is a LOT of cool stuff there that doesn't get the attention it deserves because the films... well, look at them, they cling desperately to the Skywalker story and don't really branch out in the galaxy. Also, I respectfully disagree that they would have had a 'mess' on their hands if they had started something new, because that is impossible to prove; you could apply that logic to the next trilogy that doesn't contain Rey or Kylo or Finn or Poe etc. And look at how strongly this current trilogy parallels the OT. There's hardly anything original there, many of the story beats and character match-ups are a spit and image of the OT. It just doesn't feel like they want to take risks with the story or characters. Jesus Organa was risky, sure, but in a bad way, it didn't justify itself. Luke's whole arc was risky and I still don't agree with some of the decisions made there but it at least makes more sense than that. Or when the dumb girl crashed into Finn, which any reasonable person would realize is a deadly error especially in the middle of a battlefield. Or that casino/animal chase. Or...

If my - as you call it - 'outrage' is incapable of comprehension, it boils down to the simple fact that I'm just plain sick of hearing about the Skywalkers and seeing the same characters and places and objects over and over and over. The only thing fresh about the current trilogy is the coat of paint. As for dispensing with the Skywalker saga in this trilogy - was it necessary? The prequels arguably weren't necessary, sure, but they at least showed the backstory of Anakin Skywalker. I'm not sure what the point of showing old Luke, Han, and Leia is other than shoehorning in ties to the new cast (Luke needs an apprentice in Rey, Kylo - big shock - is Han's boy, etc...)

I know the 'new' is coming, but this entire trilogy seems so pointless, in no small part because I thought Snoke was actually going to be a player in the game and it was nothing more than a red herring, and if he is mentioned again I'm almost 99% positive it'll just be because of Emperor I'll Never Go Away Because We Like To Make That Sweet Sweet Nostalgia Money
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 22, 2019, 01:28:44 PM
The more you talk, the less I sympathize with your position.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 22, 2019, 01:29:12 PM
Let's look at the EU and all the cool characters and events there. I think there is a LOT of cool stuff there that doesn't get the attention it deserves because the films... well, look at them, they cling desperately to the Skywalker story and don't really branch out in the galaxy.
OK, now I see the problem.

You're an EU fan.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on October 22, 2019, 01:35:58 PM
But like seriously, even though I sound like a broken record... 9 films. One lineage. An entire galaxy you could explore and they just don't. This last trilogy... it's been trying, I guess, to kind of build up new characters, but they just cannot let go of the freaking Skywalkers, Chewbacca, Lando, R2D2, C3PO, oh my god, do something new.
"New" is coming.

But they couldn't start with "new" when fans still love Luke, Leia, Chewy, Han, R2, and 3PO.  If Disney had come out of the gate with "new" without dealing with the OT characters, they would have had a mess on their hands, and I for one would be quite upset.

I don't get your outrage.  This trilogy is dispensing with the Skywalker Saga.  Then, everything that comes after (which will be plenty) will be "new".

In addition, it's not like they just picked some random family.  The Skywalker family is possibly the singularly most important family in the story of the galactic events that is being told.  You can choose not to like that this is the perspective that was laid out since day 1, but it hardly makes sense to criticize for this reason -- ESPECIALLY since there's tons of stuff other than the movies that doesn't focus on the Skywalkers.  It's a little like criticizing the Godfather trilogy for focusing on the Corleones or a history of renaissance era Italy for focusing on the Borgias.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 22, 2019, 01:37:26 PM
It's a little like criticizing the Godfather trilogy for focusing on the Corleones or a history of renaissance era Italy for focusing on the Borgias.
Exactly. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 22, 2019, 01:39:45 PM
New" is coming.

But they couldn't start with "new" when fans still love Luke, Leia, Chewy, Han, R2, and 3PO.  If Disney had come out of the gate with "new" without dealing with the OT characters, they would have had a mess on their hands, and I for one would be quite upset.

I don't get your outrage.  This trilogy is dispensing with the Skywalker Saga.  Then, everything that comes after (which will be plenty) will be "new".

This. They're tidying up a story that you can't just ignore for 'new' stuff.....AND.....lining up a ton of NEW STUFF.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2019, 02:04:54 PM
Let's look at the EU and all the cool characters and events there. I think there is a LOT of cool stuff there that doesn't get the attention it deserves because the films... well, look at them, they cling desperately to the Skywalker story and don't really branch out in the galaxy.
OK, now I see the problem.

You're an EU fan.

No, I'm barely a Star Wars fan at all. I just see massively wasted potential in a fantasy universe I find otherwise compelling.

I disagree with the Godfather comparisons. There is only one Don. There are many other Jedi/Sith stories they could pursue. 9 films around the Skywalker line is too much.

I don't mind if nobody agrees with me. Just putting my thoughts out there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on October 22, 2019, 02:22:35 PM
It's a little like criticizing the Godfather trilogy for focusing on the Corleones or a history of renaissance era Italy for focusing on the Borgias.
Exactly.

Please ... Coppola knew he'd exhausted things at 2 movies.  While I enjoy the 3rd, everyone knows it's a steaming pile.  Imagine 6 more movies with the Coreleones.

Three trilogies to tell the this arc is getting thin.  Nothing is new; nothing is original.  Nothing wows me

Edit: Ninja'd by Katt.  We're on the same page my man.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 22, 2019, 02:24:30 PM
Let's look at the EU and all the cool characters and events there. I think there is a LOT of cool stuff there that doesn't get the attention it deserves because the films... well, look at them, they cling desperately to the Skywalker story and don't really branch out in the galaxy.
OK, now I see the problem.

You're an EU fan.

No, I'm barely a Star Wars fan at all. I just see massively wasted potential in a fantasy universe I find otherwise compelling.
God dammit
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on October 22, 2019, 03:17:43 PM
And by the way, there is no one "Don"; technically any head of any of the five families is the Don, and between Godfather (my favorite movie of all time, bar none) and Godfather II, it's longer than the entire nine-film Skywalker sequence.  ;)


 

(Fun fact:  the first TWO Godfather movies, in their original release format, are EXACTLY as long as the THREE original Star Wars trilogy films, at 377 minutes.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2019, 03:22:57 PM
:hifive: to Chad.

Also to show that I'm not simply a curmudgeon, I have photoshopped myself into the new Star Wars film's poster. (https://i.imgur.com/obLFK5r.jpg) Look at it. May it burn your eyes. I look like a Dynasty Warriors character turned Jedi.

It's gonna be my new avatar.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 22, 2019, 03:27:44 PM
At least you FINALLY posted something in this thread worth looking at.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2019, 03:28:10 PM
At least you FINALLY posted something in this thread worth looking at.

 :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2019, 08:29:16 PM
I'm so sorry for killing this thread   :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 22, 2019, 08:46:06 PM
Killed?  This is the most action it has had in months.  :tup

I will just leave you with these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrzjbb5aSQM&t=4s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCnm-3tnL3Q
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on October 23, 2019, 08:32:45 AM
Just watched the last trailer yesterday.  I must say I'm feeling kinda nostalgic thinking of the (hopeful) closure to Skywalker saga.  It's interesting how significant a part Star Wars has played in my life.  From all the movies, games, and books (EU, I've read at least 120 of them) I stood in line in '77 at the age of 13 and now will watch the final part of the arc at 56.  Frikken crazy!  I must say I've enjoyed the ride, and each of the 8 movies so far.  Yeah, some are better than others, but overall I love them all.  I hope I'll feel that same excitement after watching the final chapter as I did back in the summer of '77.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 23, 2019, 08:41:31 AM
But like seriously, even though I sound like a broken record... 9 films. One lineage. An entire galaxy you could explore and they just don't. This last trilogy... it's been trying, I guess, to kind of build up new characters, but they just cannot let go of the freaking Skywalkers, Chewbacca, Lando, R2D2, C3PO, oh my god, do something new.
"New" is coming.

But they couldn't start with "new" when fans still love Luke, Leia, Chewy, Han, R2, and 3PO.  If Disney had come out of the gate with "new" without dealing with the OT characters, they would have had a mess on their hands, and I for one would be quite upset.

I don't get your outrage.  This trilogy is dispensing with the Skywalker Saga.  Then, everything that comes after (which will be plenty) will be "new".

In addition, it's not like they just picked some random family.  The Skywalker family is possibly the singularly most important family in the story of the galactic events that is being told.  You can choose not to like that this is the perspective that was laid out since day 1, but it hardly makes sense to criticize for this reason -- ESPECIALLY since there's tons of stuff other than the movies that doesn't focus on the Skywalkers.  It's a little like criticizing the Godfather trilogy for focusing on the Corleones or a history of renaissance era Italy for focusing on the Borgias.

What I find interesting about this particular discussion is that there are a lot of fans who think that the new trilogy has not honored the Skywalker family enough. We obviously still need to see how IX plays out, but there's a decent chance that Kylo Ren ends up as the only Skywalker with a major role in all three films. That possibility has disappointed a lot of people because they were hoping Rey was a Skywalker and that Luke would still be alive in IX. Goes to show how many different viewpoints there are on the franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on October 23, 2019, 08:49:05 AM
:hifive: to Chad.

Also to show that I'm not simply a curmudgeon, I have photoshopped myself into the new Star Wars film's poster. (https://i.imgur.com/obLFK5r.jpg) Look at it. May it burn your eyes. I look like a Dynasty Warriors character turned Jedi.

It's gonna be my new avatar.

That's bad-ass on every level.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 23, 2019, 09:37:13 AM
:hifive: to Chad.

Also to show that I'm not simply a curmudgeon, I have photoshopped myself into the new Star Wars film's poster. (https://i.imgur.com/obLFK5r.jpg) Look at it. May it burn your eyes. I look like a Dynasty Warriors character turned Jedi.

It's gonna be my new avatar.

That's bad-ass on every level.

Haha thank you. Since you quoted this at just the right time, I actually put 5 more of my friends into it just using whatever Facebook photos I could find. https://i.imgur.com/gjXnx5k.jpg
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on October 23, 2019, 10:08:06 AM
That possibility has disappointed a lot of people because they were hoping. . . .

You're right, and that's what annoys me to no end.  Folks decide in advance how the story should go and then get disappointed because their unreasonable preconceptions proved wrong.  Sigh....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 23, 2019, 10:53:39 AM
That possibility has disappointed a lot of people because they were hoping. . . .

You're right, and that's what annoys me to no end.  Folks decide in advance how the story should go and then get disappointed because their unreasonable preconceptions proved wrong.  Sigh....

Yea, I get that sense too, but I'm usually fine with it as long as people are open about it. Sometimes your heart just wants something, you know? What I don't understand is when people kind of realize they're being unreasonable, and then try and come up with alternative explanations as to why they didn't like a particular story point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on October 23, 2019, 12:28:02 PM
:hifive: to Chad.

Also to show that I'm not simply a curmudgeon, I have photoshopped myself into the new Star Wars film's poster. (https://i.imgur.com/obLFK5r.jpg) Look at it. May it burn your eyes. I look like a Dynasty Warriors character turned Jedi.

It's gonna be my new avatar.



That's bad-ass on every level.

Haha thank you. Since you quoted this at just the right time, I actually put 5 more of my friends into it just using whatever Facebook photos I could find. https://i.imgur.com/gjXnx5k.jpg

 :o to the guy shooting the blaster with his eyes closed!   (Just kidding).

Oh, and allow me to believe I'm in there, behind Kylo's mask (or in R2D2).  HAHA. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on October 23, 2019, 12:42:47 PM
So my prediction based on nothing by existing lore and trailers:

1. Rey is a clone. Of who? My guess is anakin or some portion of him. Hence the name "Rise of Skywalker".
2. Rey and Kylo join forces to kill the emperor and end up sacrificing themselves to bring balance to the force (no jedi or sith survive). If Rey is a clone of Anakin then technically the prophecy of him bringing balance to force would come true.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 23, 2019, 01:27:12 PM
Anyone else hear/read Kevin Smith's comments about the set for the final scene?  Don't worry, it ISN'T spoilery.  He wanted to check it out, but Abrams strongly urged him not to and told him he will not want it spoiled and should see it first in theaters.  If you want to watch the approximately 2 minute clip, it is here:  https://twitter.com/IGN/status/1152379091456163840?s=20

My question is this:  If you were on set, and crew told you that there was a set that would "melt your mind" and you had an opportunity to see it, but it would spoil the final scene in the film, would you see it anyway or wait?  I 100% get wanting to remain spoiler free.  But on the other hand, to see that set firsthand and perhaps get to stand in/on it, would be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.  Not sure I could pass that up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Chino on October 23, 2019, 01:38:21 PM
Anyone else hear/read Kevin Smith's comments about the set for the final scene?  Don't worry, it ISN'T spoilery.  He wanted to check it out, but Abrams strongly urged him not to and told him he will not want it spoiled and should see it first in theaters.  If you want to watch the approximately 2 minute clip, it is here:  https://twitter.com/IGN/status/1152379091456163840?s=20

My question is this:  If you were on set, and crew told you that there was a set that would "melt your mind" and you had an opportunity to see it, but it would spoil the final scene in the film, would you see it anyway or wait?  I 100% get wanting to remain spoiler free.  But on the other hand, to see that set firsthand and perhaps get to stand in/on it, would be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.  Not sure I could pass that up.

I'd do it, but I'd down a 750 of whiskey as soon as I left in hopes of blurring a lot of the memory.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MoraWintersoul on October 23, 2019, 03:00:43 PM
I'd go. I still like the SW movies even though the literal entire plot has been spoiled to me through cultural osmosis before I watched them, so I might as well not miss this opportunity. Plus my spatial reasoning is so lacking, I might not understand what I'm looking at  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on October 24, 2019, 07:09:09 AM
Anyone else hear/read Kevin Smith's comments about the set for the final scene?  Don't worry, it ISN'T spoilery.  He wanted to check it out, but Abrams strongly urged him not to and told him he will not want it spoiled and should see it first in theaters.  If you want to watch the approximately 2 minute clip, it is here:  https://twitter.com/IGN/status/1152379091456163840?s=20

My question is this:  If you were on set, and crew told you that there was a set that would "melt your mind" and you had an opportunity to see it, but it would spoil the final scene in the film, would you see it anyway or wait?  I 100% get wanting to remain spoiler free.  But on the other hand, to see that set firsthand and perhaps get to stand in/on it, would be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.  Not sure I could pass that up.

I guess it depends on the set and the scene, but I know I had the opportunity to visit the set of SNL, and see how it looked and how it worked, and while there isn't a "spoiler" per se, having that vantage point has changed (slightly) how I view the show, and for the better.  I'd take the viewing and figure out how to be awed in the theaters later. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on October 24, 2019, 08:19:20 AM
I find it hard to comprehend how just seeing a set piece could spoil the ending. But given the opportunity, I think I would go. Especially if I had a chance to meet some of the actors or see the filming.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Chino on October 24, 2019, 09:43:05 AM
I find it hard to comprehend how just seeing a set piece could spoil the ending.
 


(https://fogsmoviereviews.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/james_cameron.png) 

Spoiler alert: The ship sinks at the end.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on October 24, 2019, 10:03:04 AM
HAHAHAHA.  That's good.  :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on October 24, 2019, 10:12:00 AM
But it’s Star Wars. I assume the big set piece is mostly blue/green screen anyway.

As for me? I would. I don’t care enough about Star Wars to have it ruined but also recognize the cultural significance and being there would be cool.

Marvel movies totally opposite. Wouldn’t do it cause I love those movies and realize they might not be so culturally significant down the line.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on October 29, 2019, 06:24:40 AM
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-shocker-game-thrones-duo-quits-planned-trilogy-1250666

Benioff and Weiss leave their Star Wars project.

I'm personally not too upset by this. It is worrying that Lucasfilm seems unable to start and complete a movie with the same creative team in place throughout, though I know this is not uncommon in the blockbuster movie arena. In this case, $250 million from Netflix for these guys sealed their fate. The next Star Wars movie is 3 years away, so I'm guessing they didn't even have a first draft of the script yet. Plenty of time to recover if they play their cards right.

I'm not sure what direction Star Wars should take from here. Part of me wants to see them give movies to up and coming directors with a creative vision, give them mostly free reign, and see how things go. Just plan one movie at a time. If it does well, make more with the same director/characters. Kind of like how the MCU has been going. Though Star Wars doesn't seem to have the overarching creative visionary like the MCU has is Feige. I just hope Star Wars movies don't get as formulaic as the MCU has gotten.

I also would not be at all surprised if Star Wars were to move forward only on Disney+ as limited series with no more theatrical releases. Though honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the MCU and all other Disney properties did the same thing. I have a sneaky feeling that Disney is going finish what Netflix started and kill the movie theater over the next several years.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 29, 2019, 07:57:41 AM
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-shocker-game-thrones-duo-quits-planned-trilogy-1250666

Benioff and Weiss leave their Star Wars project.

I'm personally not too upset by this. It is worrying that Lucasfilm seems unable to start and complete a movie with the same creative team in place throughout, though I know this is not uncommon in the blockbuster movie arena. In this case, $250 million from Netflix for these guys sealed their fate. The next Star Wars movie is 3 years away, so I'm guessing they didn't even have a first draft of the script yet. Plenty of time to recover if they play their cards right.

I'm not sure what direction Star Wars should take from here. Part of me wants to see them give movies to up and coming directors with a creative vision, give them mostly free reign, and see how things go. Just plan one movie at a time. If it does well, make more with the same director/characters. Kind of like how the MCU has been going. Though Star Wars doesn't seem to have the overarching creative visionary like the MCU has is Feige. I just hope Star Wars movies don't get as formulaic as the MCU has gotten.

I also would not be at all surprised if Star Wars were to move forward only on Disney+ as limited series with no more theatrical releases. Though honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the MCU and all other Disney properties did the same thing. I have a sneaky feeling that Disney is going finish what Netflix started and kill the movie theater over the next several years.


This is the best news that could have happened. They quit....weren't 'fired' so there's no chance of a future 'our idea was SO COOL' or anything like that from them.


Personally, I'd love to see Neill Blomkamp get a shot at making a trilogy. He has a 'sy fy' mind, very creative and relatively 'fresh'. District 9 was pretty cool....I'd have loved to see his idea for the ALIENS movie he had in mind that would have ignored Alien 3 and just picked up from ALIENS. Elysium was an 'ok' movie....nothing groundbreaking but it was certainly watchable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on October 29, 2019, 08:12:20 AM
My personal view is that both the Rian Johnson trilogy and the D&D trilogy are just bad ideas to begin with. Why should anyone be handed a trilogy of 3x 200 million dollar movies (close to the double with marketing) even if they have made a good movie before? I think Star Wars should go the MCU route and have different directors make individual movies and IF those movies are successful (critically and financially) then you can keep going. Heck, the Star Wars universe is even bigger than the MCU universe in the sense that you can have characters on completely different planets in different movies who still run into each other in a team up movie or somewhere further down the line.

For me they dropped the ball with the Episode-trilogy in the sense that TLJ seemed to not care about anything set up in TFA and cut those story threads completely and now RoS is tasked with finishing a trilogy where the middle movie didn't really leave much for the final movie to resolve. To me the episode-trilogies should be planned out before hand and I think they dropped the ball there. But I feel like outside the Episode-movies, you can go the individual movies route and still have ideas for a larger picture (or not). I don't think there needs to be a galactic level threat that the movies are building towards honestly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on October 29, 2019, 09:12:34 AM
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-shocker-game-thrones-duo-quits-planned-trilogy-1250666

Benioff and Weiss leave their Star Wars project.

I'm personally not too upset by this. It is worrying that Lucasfilm seems unable to start and complete a movie with the same creative team in place throughout, though I know this is not uncommon in the blockbuster movie arena. In this case, $250 million from Netflix for these guys sealed their fate. The next Star Wars movie is 3 years away, so I'm guessing they didn't even have a first draft of the script yet. Plenty of time to recover if they play their cards right.

I'm not sure what direction Star Wars should take from here. Part of me wants to see them give movies to up and coming directors with a creative vision, give them mostly free reign, and see how things go. Just plan one movie at a time. If it does well, make more with the same director/characters. Kind of like how the MCU has been going. Though Star Wars doesn't seem to have the overarching creative visionary like the MCU has is Feige. I just hope Star Wars movies don't get as formulaic as the MCU has gotten.

I also would not be at all surprised if Star Wars were to move forward only on Disney+ as limited series with no more theatrical releases. Though honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the MCU and all other Disney properties did the same thing. I have a sneaky feeling that Disney is going finish what Netflix started and kill the movie theater over the next several years.


This is the best news that could have happened. They quit....weren't 'fired' so there's no chance of a future 'our idea was SO COOL' or anything like that from them.


Personally, I'd love to see Neill Blomkamp get a shot at making a trilogy. He has a 'sy fy' mind, very creative and relatively 'fresh'. District 9 was pretty cool....I'd have loved to see his idea for the ALIENS movie he had in mind that would have ignored Alien 3 and just picked up from ALIENS. Elysium was an 'ok' movie....nothing groundbreaking but it was certainly watchable.

I dunno. Dude has one good movie under his belt. The rest were not too well received.

Plus I can’t see Star Wars covering gangster South African sub culture.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 29, 2019, 09:48:22 AM
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-shocker-game-thrones-duo-quits-planned-trilogy-1250666

Benioff and Weiss leave their Star Wars project.

I'm personally not too upset by this. It is worrying that Lucasfilm seems unable to start and complete a movie with the same creative team in place throughout, though I know this is not uncommon in the blockbuster movie arena. In this case, $250 million from Netflix for these guys sealed their fate. The next Star Wars movie is 3 years away, so I'm guessing they didn't even have a first draft of the script yet. Plenty of time to recover if they play their cards right.

I'm not sure what direction Star Wars should take from here. Part of me wants to see them give movies to up and coming directors with a creative vision, give them mostly free reign, and see how things go. Just plan one movie at a time. If it does well, make more with the same director/characters. Kind of like how the MCU has been going. Though Star Wars doesn't seem to have the overarching creative visionary like the MCU has is Feige. I just hope Star Wars movies don't get as formulaic as the MCU has gotten.

I also would not be at all surprised if Star Wars were to move forward only on Disney+ as limited series with no more theatrical releases. Though honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the MCU and all other Disney properties did the same thing. I have a sneaky feeling that Disney is going finish what Netflix started and kill the movie theater over the next several years.


This is the best news that could have happened. They quit....weren't 'fired' so there's no chance of a future 'our idea was SO COOL' or anything like that from them.


Personally, I'd love to see Neill Blomkamp get a shot at making a trilogy. He has a 'sy fy' mind, very creative and relatively 'fresh'. District 9 was pretty cool....I'd have loved to see his idea for the ALIENS movie he had in mind that would have ignored Alien 3 and just picked up from ALIENS. Elysium was an 'ok' movie....nothing groundbreaking but it was certainly watchable.

I dunno. Dude has one good movie under his belt. The rest were not too well received.

Plus I can’t see Star Wars covering gangster South African sub culture.

It'd be a 'gamble' for sure. But I think he just has the type of mind that would be worth giving him a shot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on October 29, 2019, 11:04:21 AM
I'm cool with Star Wars going with lesser known directors/writers.  I feel they've done this with actors/actresses to some success in the past.  If there's a good script out there, I'd hope name recognition isn't holding them back from Disney. 

Having said that, I honestly wouldn't be upset if they just put an end to the Star Wars universe.  It already feels like its milked dry with their current storyline.  Maybe if they started fresh in the universe but somewhere else totally unrelated (or just slightly related to keep some consistency) to the 3 trilogies to make it feel fresh.  Right now, Hollywood just feels like it's rinse and repeat with everything.  Even though I didn't love Rogue One, I did like the idea of something totally different although still related.  That movie did at least feel a bit more fresh than the newest trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on October 29, 2019, 11:11:39 AM
I think I like this.  Let the story drive the films; it seems like now we schedule a film, and force the story in (sort of the movie version of "record album, tour, record album, tour).  Why not wait until someone has a brilliant idea, or a compelling story to tell that fits in the Star Wars universe?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on October 29, 2019, 11:53:21 AM
I think I like this.  Let the story drive the films; it seems like now we schedule a film, and force the story in (sort of the movie version of "record album, tour, record album, tour).  Why not wait until someone has a brilliant idea, or a compelling story to tell that fits in the Star Wars universe?

I was going to make this exact same post this morning. I hate that the next trilogy's first installment already has a release date pegged down. How about coming up with a good story and setting and all that first? The franchise prints money, slow down, it'll be okay.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on October 29, 2019, 01:10:03 PM
I honestly think the success that the MCU has had for Disney has been bad for Star Wars. Disney can look at the MCU and see a movie franchise that can pump out 3 movies a year that each make a billion dollars. Disney probably had grand plans for the Star Wars universe to be the same. And in theory it could be. There are infinite possibilities for stories and they're not only stuck with characters from existing comic books like the MCU. I can see them envisioning a future where there's a June and December movie release and a few Disney+ series every year in the Star Wars universe. I think that's achievable with the right creative teams, but I'm not sure most Star Wars fans want that. I'll be very curious to see where things go. I hope they allow filmmakers to be a little more experimental when it comes to creating movie and series that aren't tied to the existing characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on October 29, 2019, 01:36:13 PM
I have been having very similar thoughts.  I'm not saying I think they shouldn't.  Like you, I just don't know, and I'm in "wait and see" mode.  But the MCU is different.  You listed some of the reasons.  But I also don't think we should discount the fact that the MCU exists because of Marvel comics, and in my opinion, the history of Marvel comics has had a huge impact on the success of the MCU.  Reading comics as a kid, I had my favorite set of go-to books that I regularly read.  I didn't have time or money to read everything, but that was okay.  But I knew those other characters were out there, doing their own thing, and having their own story arcs in this same, shared universe.  When a crossover happened, it was pretty cool and exciting, and it generated an interest in those other books.  The huge, multi-book crossovers amplified that even more.  That legacy is built into the MCU, and they successfully found a way to subliminally carry it over from the books and make it work in film.  For whatever reason, that is very difficult to replicate.  That's part of the reason why, for example, the DCEU failed in its attempt to replicate that formula.  In theory, it could work for Star Wars as well.  We kind of know there is this huge, unexplored universe of potential characters and stories out there.  It should work.  In theory.  But in practice, I'm not sure it will. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on October 29, 2019, 01:45:08 PM
Not going to work when you over saturate the market with Star Wars.  All these movies and shows just make each next one less important.  But I totally know it will generate a ton of money and I'm sure the business likes that and will risk artist integrity to keep making that cash.  I even admitted I'd still see these movies, I'm a good example of someone they'd be milking.  However, if the quality keeps going down, I will just stop caring.  I already care significantly less about the SW universe today than I did 5 years ago.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on October 29, 2019, 02:04:40 PM
It's funny that people worry so much about over saturation of Star Wars when they've been releasing one movie a year and none are planned for the next three years (apart from Disney+ series). You don't hear the same thing being said very often about the MCU which is pumping out content at 4 times the rate of Star Wars.

I'd personally be happy with a Star Wars December movie release and a Disney + series or two every year. I don't think that's too much as long as the stories are good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on October 29, 2019, 02:09:29 PM
It's funny that people worry so much about over saturation of Star Wars when they've been releasing one movie a year and none are planned for the next three years (apart from Disney+ series). You don't hear the same thing being said very often about the MCU which is pumping out content at 4 times the rate of Star Wars.

I'd personally be happy with a Star Wars December movie release and a Disney + series or two every year. I don't think that's too much as long as the stories are good.

Well, for me, I couldn't care at all about the MCU universe.  But one could compare the amount of star wars releases in its first 20 years of being a thing vs the last 20 years and you could see why one would say over saturation.  Even if Episode 1 was the worst of the franchise, there was a lot of excitement for seeing a new star wars movie that is hardly there for Episode 9.  Or compare the excitement for episode 7 to episode 9. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on October 29, 2019, 02:50:49 PM
The MCU movies are all different, though.  There are characters who show up in "other hero's movies" but they've established a huge cast of characters and there are tons of stories, many completely separate and many which converge.  With Star Wars, at least until now, it's just the one main story, the Skywalker Saga.  Presumably that's why they're talking about ending the Skywalker story, so they can branch out into other stories in other settings, as the MCU has done.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on October 29, 2019, 05:00:31 PM
Presumably that's why they're talking about ending the Skywalker story, so they can branch out into other stories in other settings, as the MCU has done.
That's exactly my point. As they move away from the Skywalker saga, the possibilities are endless. There's no reason to believe they can't do with Star Wars what they've done in the MCU.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ErHaO on October 29, 2019, 05:01:57 PM
Yeah, my main problem with current Star Wars is that Disney wants every film to connect with the major trilogies. The universe just feels like a small band of character that do stuff on a small collection of planets.

I just want exciting stories that stand on their own and make Star Wars feel like this massive universe with load of history. Think stories like Knight of the Old Republic for example.

But I think Disney is now set to change this and they know very well that their current strategy isn't optimal.

Oh, and give me actual good films with fully trained Jedi that have epic lightsaber fights please. Prequel trilogy fights but with actual quality is what I mean.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on October 29, 2019, 08:08:08 PM
That would be cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on October 30, 2019, 05:32:11 AM
It's funny that people worry so much about over saturation of Star Wars when they've been releasing one movie a year and none are planned for the next three years (apart from Disney+ series). You don't hear the same thing being said very often about the MCU which is pumping out content at 4 times the rate of Star Wars.

I'd personally be happy with a Star Wars December movie release and a Disney + series or two every year. I don't think that's too much as long as the stories are good.

You have a point about the 'over saturation' when it comes to Star Wars and the MCU, though personally I think this is due to the fact we haven't had that many Star Wars movies before. I mean Disney has soon caught up with how many Star Wars movies were made before they got the rights and the 6 movies before came out over the span of ~30 years whereas in this case it's more like ~5-6 years. Personally I don't mind if we get 1 Star Wars movie a year, especially if every other one is a non-episode movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on October 30, 2019, 08:52:57 AM
It's funny that people worry so much about over saturation of Star Wars when they've been releasing one movie a year and none are planned for the next three years (apart from Disney+ series). You don't hear the same thing being said very often about the MCU which is pumping out content at 4 times the rate of Star Wars.

I'd personally be happy with a Star Wars December movie release and a Disney + series or two every year. I don't think that's too much as long as the stories are good.

You have a point about the 'over saturation' when it comes to Star Wars and the MCU, though personally I think this is due to the fact we haven't had that many Star Wars movies before. I mean Disney has soon caught up with how many Star Wars movies were made before they got the rights and the 6 movies before came out over the span of ~30 years whereas in this case it's more like ~5-6 years. Personally I don't mind if we get 1 Star Wars movie a year, especially if every other one is a non-episode movie.

Also the first two trilogies, the movies came out every 3 years.  This new trilogy is every 2 years.  It's not that crazy when you compare to what other films have done, but it is a huge increase over the historical amount and pace of Star Wars movies before.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on October 30, 2019, 10:01:06 AM
True.  The Star Wars movies are huge blockbuster spectacles.  Maybe not the first one (Ep IV) but it became huge and was one of the first really big blockbusters of the modern era, and each one since then is meant to be a pretty big deal.  Getting one every two or three years wasn't a problem because they take years to make.  You couldn't just crank out a huge epic once a year.

The MCU movies can be pretty epic too, but there are multiple films in production at a time with all the different characters and storylines.  New Star Wars films will have to change not only the type of storytelling, but how they produce them and everything.  It will be fun to watch it unfold.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 01, 2019, 10:58:41 AM
So I just read that John Boyega is getting some flack for suggesting that Anakin is/was a much stronger Jedi that Rey is and Luke was. Which, immediately I thought....no duh? If you base Anakin's character off of the movies AND Clone Wars....to me it's a no brainer. Anakin was a freaking stud in Clone Wars and displayed immense power so I don't see how you could even think that Rey could compete.

Some arguments were that Obi Wan and Luke 'beat' Vadar.....but both were situations were one offs so to speak.

Any thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on November 01, 2019, 01:04:36 PM
:dunno:  I try not to get too hung up on stuff like that.  Whichever position you want to argue, you can find as many inconsistencies as you want to show that the other side is wrong.  I just don't worry about it too much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on November 01, 2019, 02:13:39 PM
Anakin is the chosen one and is the most powerful jedi ever. Mentally he was a basket case so maybe that's why he was defeated.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ZirconBlue on November 04, 2019, 08:05:28 PM




:dunno:  I try not to get too hung up on stuff like that.  Whichever position you want to argue, you can find as many inconsistencies as you want to show that the other side is wrong.



As long as you have the high ground, you will win.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on November 05, 2019, 02:48:02 AM
I think Anakin probably was the strongest, I mean Vader was a big looming threat to the whole galaxy while he was in his prime. Sure, Luke did defeat him in combat in RotJ but that was an aging Vader.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 05, 2019, 06:02:03 AM
I think Anakin probably was the strongest, I mean Vader was a big looming threat to the whole galaxy while he was in his prime. Sure, Luke did defeat him in combat in RotJ but that was an aging Vader.
And a Vader that was conflicted. He didn't really want to defeat Luke.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 05, 2019, 06:37:55 AM
I think Anakin probably was the strongest, I mean Vader was a big looming threat to the whole galaxy while he was in his prime. Sure, Luke did defeat him in combat in RotJ but that was an aging Vader.
And a Vader that was conflicted. He didn't really want to defeat Luke.

Very true in both cases.

I can’t ignore what Anakin did throughout the Clone War series. He continually demonstrated how powerful he was.....even defeated that time Lords crazy son who was incredibly powerful. Rey is a ‘natural’ Jedi and Luke was very powerful as well according to the post movie cannon.....but for me until I see otherwise none were on the level of Anakin.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on November 05, 2019, 09:03:02 AM
Not necessarily specific to Anakin, but that's a trope of these types of films.   Relative power cut with humanity and compassion will always rise up and defeat absolute power at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 05, 2019, 12:09:36 PM
Episode Release Schedule for 'The Mandalorian'

#101 – November 12

#102 – November 15

#103 – November 22

#104 – November 29

#105 – December 6

#106 – December 13

#107 – December 18

#108 – December 27
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on November 05, 2019, 03:39:57 PM
'The Mandalorian'

Just so I'm clear, is this Mandalorian thing something that only folks with the Disney streaming thingamabob will be able to watch?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 05, 2019, 04:11:12 PM
'The Mandalorian'

Just so I'm clear, is this Mandalorian thing something that only folks with the Disney streaming thingamabob will be able to watch?

No, it's just the story of a bunty hunter. It will be like regular show, only in the Star Wars realm.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on November 05, 2019, 04:20:42 PM
I think he was asking about the distribution medium, not the setting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 05, 2019, 05:01:38 PM
'The Mandalorian'

Just so I'm clear, is this Mandalorian thing something that only folks with the Disney streaming thingamabob will be able to watch?

Yes. Its only available with a Disney Plus subscription
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on November 05, 2019, 05:35:03 PM
I think he was asking about the distribution medium, not the setting.

Yup.


Yes. Its only available with a Disney Plus subscription

Got it.  Thanks.  So I'll never see it (or at least not any time in the foreseeable future).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Big Hath on November 05, 2019, 07:36:16 PM
'The Mandalorian'

Just so I'm clear, is this Mandalorian thing something that only folks with the Disney streaming thingamabob will be able to watch?

No, it's just the story of a bunny hunter. It will be like regular show, only in the Star Wars realm.

(https://statici.behindthevoiceactors.com/behindthevoiceactors/_img/chars/elmer-fudd-geico-65.5.jpg)


(ok, one letter away but I couldn't resist)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on November 05, 2019, 07:44:50 PM
(https://imgur.com/fYFUT2l.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on November 12, 2019, 12:34:03 AM
Ok, Mandalorian is live :metal


So we gonna discuss it here or in a separate thread?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 12, 2019, 07:15:39 AM
Ok, Mandalorian is live :metal


So we gonna discuss it here or in a separate thread?

Waited until midnight then downloaded the app.....then watched the first episode. I enjoyed it a lot. It's so neat to see that world. What I dug also is I'd say near all the trailer footage we've seen came from Ep. 1, meaning....not a lot was given away. IF I had to nitpick my largest complaint is that the episode run time was only around 40 minutes. I was under the impression these were all hour long episodes. But all in all....it's a great introductory episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on November 12, 2019, 10:47:31 AM
Finally got to see the first episode of the Mandalorian. It was a lot of fun, the setting and the action, the almost spaghetti western feel to it, it had a lot of the charm of the original trilogy. Very Rogue One-ish at times, overall am very excited about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 12, 2019, 11:22:23 AM
Finally got to see the first episode of the Mandalorian.
Finally? It was first available less than 12 hours ago! :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on November 12, 2019, 11:32:15 AM
I know but the site was hammered and didn't load for me until a few hours ago. :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on November 12, 2019, 11:44:00 AM
I think they laid some groundwork for a seriously entertaining show that sticks true to the original movies' spaghetti western feel. Really excited about this one!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on November 12, 2019, 03:03:25 PM
I know but the site was hammered and didn't load for me until a few hours ago. :D
This it's why it's so important for streaming services to allow downloads to watch offline. I hope Disney+ will be doing that, at least for its phone/tablet apps, like the other major services do in the UK.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 12, 2019, 05:24:44 PM
Watched the first episode and really enjoyed it. The Mandalorian is a really cool show.

Really liked the IG droid bounty hunter. He moved exactly how I always expected an IG model to and I loved that he kept trying to self destruct  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on November 12, 2019, 07:44:20 PM
Holy cow.  This show is amazing.  So much of the look, feel and sound of the original trilogy, plus plenty of humor.  And that moment at the end....just heart-stopping.  We've only ever seen one of those before!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 12, 2019, 07:45:30 PM
Holy cow.  This show is amazing.  So much of the look, feel and sound of the original trilogy, plus plenty of humor.  And that moment at the end....just heart-stopping.  We've only ever seen one of those before!

Two.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on November 12, 2019, 09:37:40 PM
Just saw it. Absolutely loved it.

Someone said “spaghetti western” earlier...but let’s call a spade a spade. It’s “The Man With No Name” in space. And I absolutely mean that as the highest of compliments.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on November 12, 2019, 11:37:34 PM
Just saw it. Absolutely loved it.

Someone said “spaghetti western” earlier...but let’s call a spade a spade. It’s “The Man With No Name” in space. And I absolutely mean that as the highest of compliments.

Yeah, when I use the phrase 'spaghetti western' it's with The Man With No Name at the forefront of my mind. And yes, I was a massive fan of those films back in the day.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on November 13, 2019, 04:51:11 AM
Holy cow.  This show is amazing.  So much of the look, feel and sound of the original trilogy, plus plenty of humor.  And that moment at the end....just heart-stopping.  We've only ever seen one of those before!

Two.

I stand corrected...I had completely forgotten about the second appearance.  What an incredible surprise at the end of the episode though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 13, 2019, 06:07:17 AM
I enjoyed it a lot as well!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on November 13, 2019, 06:37:35 AM
The fact that the thread title is still referring to the last Jedi makes me chuckle.

I'll have to catch up on rebels now that Disney+ is here.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on November 13, 2019, 06:39:19 AM
Good show.  The droid was amazing.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 13, 2019, 07:20:21 AM
Yea, I really enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on November 13, 2019, 09:58:33 AM
************MANDALORIAN SPOILERS*****************

I guess?




































Not sure how many consider this a hard "spoiler," but I figured I'd put the alert tags on anyway.  So...our dude is taking this job because the bounty is some extremely rare, priceless metal.  And...the lady Mandalorian makes a shoulder pad out of it?  ???  I trust all will be explained at some point, but it seems odd right now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 13, 2019, 10:05:10 AM
************MANDALORIAN SPOILERS*****************

I guess?




































Not sure how many consider this a hard "spoiler," but I figured I'd put the alert tags on anyway.  So...our dude is taking this job because the bounty is some extremely rare, priceless metal.  And...the lady Mandalorian makes a shoulder pad out of it?  ???  I trust all will be explained at some point, but it seems odd right now.


I'm going to give another watch or two....but initially I thought in the dialogue between our Bounty Hunter and the Mandalorian Blacksmith.....she mentioned the heritage of the metal he handed her.....she gave some description of it as if this were 'mandalorian' by right? did anyone else catch or hear that? Maybe he's interested in reclaiming that metal for 'his people' so to speak.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 13, 2019, 10:35:55 AM
Mandalorian armor was always supposed to be the shit as far as armor goes and our boy identifies strongly with the Mandalorian tribe, heritage and ideology so I looked at it as a birth rite, sentimental type of thing to get a hold of that metal and incorporate it into himself by making it a part of his armor.

So for him this metal is just as precious, if not more precious than just regular credits. At least, that's how I read it. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 13, 2019, 10:56:11 AM
From the episode alone, I gather (similar to what has been said) is that the armor is very important to that culture, and he wasn't born into it, so finding that kind of metal is extremely important to proving his worth and then having the armor built bit by bit our of it is a recognition of him becoming like a full fledged Mandalorian.

Could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on November 13, 2019, 11:03:36 AM
Everyone is talking about this show at work.  And it all seems so positive.  I guess I'll have to check it out at some point. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 14, 2019, 06:40:56 AM
I'm rewatching all of the Skywalker saga movies in advance of Rise of Skywalker.

Working my way through The Phantom Menace now. It's been perhaps a decade since I've watched it last and my thoughts haven't really changed. Jar Jar is annoying. Jake Lloyd was not a very good child actor. Too much CGI (which was good for the time, but of course hasn't aged well). But the my main frustration is that it seems like it could have been such a better movie with some relatively minor tweaks. Make Jar Jar not so annoying and cut down his lines, use practical effects instead of CGI more, and rewrite and handful of clunky dialog spots, and you would go from having an OK to bad movie to having a pretty good movie.

Oh, and what a waste it was killing off Darth Maul in Ep. 1.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 14, 2019, 06:58:04 AM
I'm rewatching all of the Skywalker saga movies in advance of Rise of Skywalker.

Working my way through The Phantom Menace now. It's been perhaps a decade since I've watched it last and my thoughts haven't really changed. Jar Jar is annoying. Jake Lloyd was not a very good child actor. Too much CGI (which was good for the time, but of course hasn't aged well). But the my main frustration is that it seems like it could have been such a better movie with some relatively minor tweaks. Make Jar Jar not so annoying and cut down his lines, use practical effects instead of CGI more, and rewrite and handful of clunky dialog spots, and you would go from having an OK to bad movie to having a pretty good movie.

Oh, and what a waste it was killing off Darth Maul in Ep. 1.

Totally agree about Maul. I would have rather him have gotten wounded, but was able to make an escape.

And perhaps Obi now is more focused on tracking down the one who killed his master, neglecting Anakin's training. Setting up some future conflict between them. There's a lot of cool things they could have done.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on November 14, 2019, 07:15:57 AM
I'm doing the same thing, worked through TPM and AOTC yesterday, and I agree on all your points, as well as I'd add to eliminate all of Anakin's cheesy ass one liners, especially in the last battle when he's piloting the ship. I cringed at every one of them.

It's also nice on the rewatch knowing I can fast forward through all the Anakin/Padme scenes in AOTC to avoid the vomit inducing acting. Really makes the film better!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 14, 2019, 07:35:29 AM
Episode II is absolutely where I wish there would have been a different director for the Anakin/Padme scenes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 14, 2019, 07:49:38 AM
Oh, and what a waste it was killing off Darth Maul in Ep. 1.

Well technically he didn't die.....being that the Clone Wars series is considered cannon.


But I do agree it was a waste of a cool character that could have been explored more in depth. They did the same thing with General Grevious. Quick exit in the movies but explored him more in the Clone Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on November 14, 2019, 07:51:47 AM
now with Disney+ I will have to check out Clone Wars and Rebels. Been meaning to check them out for a while but never got the chance.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 14, 2019, 07:52:38 AM
I'm doing the same thing

The kiddos and I are about to embark on the same refresh. I really dislike TPM and AOTC. ROTS is pretty good....then from then on I'm golden with the saga.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 14, 2019, 07:52:43 AM
now with Disney+ I will have to check out Clone Wars and Rebels. Been meaning to check them out for a while but never got the chance.
Yeah, me too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 14, 2019, 07:54:51 AM
now with Disney+ I will have to check out Clone Wars and Rebels. Been meaning to check them out for a while but never got the chance.
Yeah, me too.

You guys will enjoy it. We've already watched the first five episodes of The Clone Wars again. I absolutely LOVE seeing Anakin in action in the series. They do a great job in showing his gradual walk towards the dark side.....and, demonstrate on many occasions how powerful a Jedi he was/is.

Rebels is really good as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on November 14, 2019, 08:27:06 AM
I remember watching the Clone Wars animated movie and not really getting into it much, it's probably why I didn't check out the cartoon series earlier.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 14, 2019, 08:29:47 AM
I remember watching the Clone Wars animated movie and not really getting into it much, it's probably why I didn't check out the cartoon series earlier.

The series is much more 'adult' that you'd think. Enough so to where my kids the first time we watched it lost interest because there were many episodes where it was dialogue and story driven....no saber fights or action.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on November 14, 2019, 10:46:23 AM
I've watched the prequels and I'm including Rogue One in the re-watch as well for this weekend. Also watching clone wars with the kids. Almost through season 4 and then on to Rebels. I'd say 80% of Clone Wars is amazing with only a handful of duds.

Also, if it hasn't been mentioned all of the Star Wars films on Disney+ are in 4K HDR with Dolby Atmos.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on November 14, 2019, 10:52:14 AM
Also another note on Clone Wars for first time watchers, a lot of the episodes in the first 2-3 seasons were not released in chronological order so be sure to watch it in the "right" order.

https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 14, 2019, 11:10:40 AM
I'd say 80% of Clone Wars is amazing with only a handful of duds.

I'd agree with this estimate. Good thing is episodes are like 20 minutes long so the duds just fade into the rest of the story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on November 14, 2019, 11:28:07 AM
With all due respect to whoever compiled that Clone Wars list, there is no way I am doing that.  That is WAY too much to keep track of as I move through the episodes.  I'll just move through them on whatever order D+ has them in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on November 14, 2019, 11:51:55 AM
With all due respect to whoever compiled that Clone Wars list, there is no way I am doing that.  That is WAY too much to keep track of as I move through the episodes.  I'll just move through them on whatever order D+ has them in.

To me it was totally worth it. It is very glaring how out of order they are. We're talking characters dying and then showing up in later episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 15, 2019, 11:26:42 AM
Good 2nd EP. That little Yoda has me intrigued, why is he so powerful? And why have any of the force sensitives sensed his power?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on November 15, 2019, 08:26:58 PM
Amazing second episode, I'm loving the feel of these episodes, simple story with one or two side quests while deepening the intrigue. Can't wait for the next one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on November 15, 2019, 08:33:51 PM
Agreed on all counts, they're really on point with every aspect of this show. Star Wars done right.


I also want to go on record as saying that in due time, I think Yoda-ish baby will be cuter than Baby Groot. He/she is just too damn adorable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 16, 2019, 04:17:12 AM
Liked the 1st episode better, but this one was good as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 16, 2019, 09:31:05 AM
Good 2nd EP. That little Yoda has me intrigued, why is he so powerful? And why have any of the force sensitives sensed his power?

Wouldn’t it have something to do with there just aren’t many Force sensitives remaining at that period of time?

And it appeared that Baby Yoda was trying to heal that wound also.....which would be a new ‘force’ power?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 16, 2019, 09:34:48 AM
As interesting as lil yoda is, I hope it isn’t the main focus of the show. I’m really digging it, largely because it’s unrelated to jedis and sith and Skywalkers and such. So if it becomes mostly jedi/force focused, or that’s the only thing people care about, I’d consider it a waste of a great space western.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 16, 2019, 09:38:13 AM
Was trying to compare how ‘old’ the Baby Yoda would be if it was human. So, I assigned Yoda dying at the age of 100 in human years. He was 900 years old (or so) when he died.

I divided 900/50= 18  (we know this Baby Yoda is 50ish in Yoda years) then divided 100/18 and got 5.55555......

So, with that rudimentary math I’m thinking Baby Yoda is equivalent to a 5 1/2 year old human kid?

Seem reasonable?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 16, 2019, 09:40:13 AM
As interesting as lil yoda is, I hope it isn’t the main focus of the show. I’m really digging it, largely because it’s unrelated to jedis and sith and Skywalkers and such. So if it becomes mostly jedi/force focused, or that’s the only thing people care about, I’d consider it a waste of a great space western.

My speculation at this point is that he turns lil Yoda over....collects his reward....comes to be revealed to him ‘what’ lil Yoda is.....then he sets out to rescue him back.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 16, 2019, 08:04:17 PM
My Thoughts On Attack of the Clones:

This one is by far the worst Star Wars move to date. It's inexplicable how Padme could fall for Anakin, he's creepy and weird. I'm amazed George Lucas managed to get married if that's how he sees flirting and romance. This one is plagued by excessive CGI. I don't think there's more than a couple scenes that aren't completely done on green screens. There seems to be little real stuff at all in the sets. I could go on and on about too much CGI, but Ill stop there. I never felt anything positive about Count Dooku. I really wish they hadn't killed off Darth Maul and had used him in place of Dooku in Eps 2 and 3.

The one thing I think was a pretty good twist was that the storm troopers were originally on the good side. That's about all I got for positives in this one. I can still enjoy it because its Star Wars, but otherwise it's pretty bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on November 16, 2019, 10:34:25 PM
The best thing I can say about AotC is that I totally enjoyed it in the theater. After the completely underwhelming TPM (in fairness my expectations were unnecessarily high, and I knew most of the story going in), knowing less about AotC (I even avoided most of the trailer/promo material) and lowered expectations, it was a much more enjoyable experience. The Padme/Anakin part is the worst aspect of the story, and GL is find of saying he don't know how to write that kind of material. I think that goes back to American Graffiti and him struggling with the Ron Howard/Cindy Williams story. AotC is a good story (aside from PAdme/Anakin, it just could be told better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 17, 2019, 05:13:30 AM
I agree with you guys and as far as Episode II goes:

A) Lucas understands nothing about dating or relationships. And this led to some of the most contrived, unrealistic, cringe love story scenes I have ever seen.
 
B) Phantom menace has CGI issues, but Episode II goes completely mental with entirely 100% green screen rooms that look like shit.

C) Dooku is a stupid name for a villain. I would have preferred Maul 100% as the continuing villain. I like Lee as an actor, but he wasn't given much to do.

D) On a positive note, I originally did like the Obi-wan detective aspect where he's investigating and following clues on his own.

**All that being said, I have watched AtoC in its entirety maybe twice in my lifetime. Its just does nothing for me, and Lucas should have had a different director handle the "love" scenes or any human to human interaction for that matter.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 17, 2019, 07:05:20 AM
The best thing I can say about AotC is that I totally enjoyed it in the theater.
I did too. I'm sure I saw it two or three times in the theater and it was a good time. It wasn't until future viewings at home that I realized how bad it really was. Same with TPM too.

D) On a positive note, I originally did like the Obi-wan detective aspect where he's investigating and following clues on his own.
Good point. This was a nice subplot.

Overall. I'd say the basic plot of AOTC wasn't bad. The execution was just bad. Kind of like TPM I guess.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 17, 2019, 07:15:47 AM
I won't say a whole lot about Revenge of the Sith. It suffers from some of the same problems as the first two: bad acting and dialog, and too much CGI. But it's by far the best of the prequel movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 17, 2019, 07:23:28 AM
A New Hope: I love this movie. Probably my favorite of all time. It never gets old. I haven't ever watched the Bluray version, which I'm assuming is what's on Disney+ and it looks great!

Some dumb observations that I haven't thought about much before:
Why didn't they stop and change ships when they knew the Empire was tracking the Falcon?
Why is Luke, a kid who just showed up, leading one of the torpedo runs down the trench?
Why did they all fly around shooting at stuff in the Death Star battle? Just go straight to the exhaust port and everyone launch torpedoes at it until one goes in. Fly straight down from above toward it!
Greedo shooting first is "macklunky" - That's going to be my new stand-in phrase for bullshit
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on November 17, 2019, 03:09:10 PM
I've gotten a few SW Christmas Special videos pop up in my YT feed recently. Which got me thinking.... has anyone here actually seen that all the way through? I haven't. I was born in 76, so have the vaguest of memories of TESB being released, and of course by the time of RotJ I was fully immersed on the SW universe. I had the toys, VHS tapes, Halloween costumes... I don't think I was even aware of the Holiday Special till many, many years later.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 17, 2019, 03:37:37 PM
I've only seen bits and pieces. its utterly mental  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on November 18, 2019, 09:18:50 AM
Amazing second episode, I'm loving the feel of these episodes, simple story with one or two side quests while deepening the intrigue. Can't wait for the next one.

Just getting that much interaction inside and outside a sandcrawler was a win of the highest order.  The fact that the rest of the episode had anything even resembling "good" just felt like gravy.  :lol

I was really confused about the cave/battle sequence at first though.  But that was totally on me.  I didn't get that he was going after an actual egg.  I thought that when the jawas demanded the egg that they wanted him to give up baby yoda's egg shaped hover-bassinette.  I couldn't for the life of me figure out why Mando was going off into a cave that was obviously hazardous.  :lolpalm:

I've gotten a few SW Christmas Special videos pop up in my YT feed recently. Which got me thinking.... has anyone here actually seen that all the way through?

I know I did as a kid, but I don't have a crystal clear recollection of the plot or most of the scenes.  It didn't strike me as being "bad" or hokey at the time.  But that was largely because of my age at the time it came out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on November 18, 2019, 01:03:12 PM
At the time, it wasn't bad or hokey.  It was a holiday variety special, which was a very common thing at the time.  Star Wars was popular with young and old alike, so it was inevitable.  Dated as hell now, but completely acceptable entertainment at the time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on November 18, 2019, 01:06:30 PM
Watched both episodes of the Mandalorian on Friday night. Great stuff. Love the gritty cinematography and obviously the reveal was pretty bad ass. Felt like Rogue One a little mixed with an old Western. I dug it. Looking forward to the next episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 18, 2019, 01:19:09 PM
As I've been finishing up the original trilogy after watching the prequel trilogy two things really stood out to me:

1) I know the original movies have been cleaned up a little bit over the years, but the special effects using physical models have stood up way better over time than the CGI in the prequels.
2) The jokes/one-liners/quips in the original trilogy almost all hit the mark and are funny, or at least fitting to the moment and character. I can't say the same for those same types of things in the prequels. They largely miss the mark and feel completely forced to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 18, 2019, 01:51:00 PM
As I've been finishing up the original trilogy after watching the prequel trilogy two things really stood out to me:

1) I know the original movies have been cleaned up a little bit over the years, but the special effects using physical models have stood up way better over time than the CGI in the prequels.

Oh yeah. The CGI in the prequels has not aged well at all. Case and point is my kids when they first saw the prequels (they were at the time (7,10,11) literally laughed out loud at the CGI in AOTC.

It's as if Lucas forgot just how authentic the OT felt with those practical models/effects.....and just could not help himself when the technology was there to enhance the prequels. Had he chose to use it sparingly in order to compliment.....much like Abrams did in TFA.....it'd have been much more successful. But the fact that the prequels were 90% in front of a green screen really detract from anything 'good' IMO


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 18, 2019, 02:07:05 PM
As I've been finishing up the original trilogy after watching the prequel trilogy two things really stood out to me:

1) I know the original movies have been cleaned up a little bit over the years, but the special effects using physical models have stood up way better over time than the CGI in the prequels.

Oh yeah. The CGI in the prequels has not aged well at all. Case and point is my kids when they first saw the prequels (they were at the time (7,10,11) literally laughed out loud at the CGI in AOTC.

It's as if Lucas forgot just how authentic the OT felt with those practical models/effects.....and just could not help himself when the technology was there to enhance the prequels. Had he chose to use it sparingly in order to compliment.....much like Abrams did in TFA.....it'd have been much more successful. But the fact that the prequels were 90% in front of a green screen really detract from anything 'good' IMO



It's almost like people get intoxicated by the possibilities of CGI and are blinded to it's negatives. It happened in The Hobbit movies versus the Lord of the Rings movies as well. LOTR are awesome and were considered instant classics. There was plenty of CGI, but a lot of practical effects, and men in suits for the orcs for instance. The Hobbits switched to more digital effects and CGI orcs. It's like filmmakers feel constrained by the real physics of using physical effects, props, etc. But in reality it's those practical effects that make a movie feel more real, natural, and relatable to the audience, even when the subject of the movie is completely unrealistic. Compare RDJ in the physical Ironman suit in the first Iron Man movie, versus RDJ in a CGI suit later. I feel like the CGI suit was a huge step down.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on November 18, 2019, 05:15:09 PM
A New Hope: I love this movie. Probably my favorite of all time. It never gets old. I haven't ever watched the Bluray version, which I'm assuming is what's on Disney+ and it looks great!

Some dumb observations that I haven't thought about much before:
Why didn't they stop and change ships when they knew the Empire was tracking the Falcon?
Why is Luke, a kid who just showed up, leading one of the torpedo runs down the trench?
Why did they all fly around shooting at stuff in the Death Star battle? Just go straight to the exhaust port and everyone launch torpedoes at it until one goes in. Fly straight down from above toward it!
Greedo shooting first is "macklunky" - That's going to be my new stand-in phrase for bullshit

1. I assume the answer is because they were out in the middle of nowhere and had no real ability to obtain another ship.  Also, Han was cocky.
2. He was pretty much the only one left.  Recall that he was a wingman for Red Leader, who got shot.  Biggs's ship was injured, so he took off, and that left just Luke (at least I think that's all right).
3. I think the real answer is narrative drama.  Maybe there's some other post hoc rationalization for it, but I think it's just drama.


I've gotten a few SW Christmas Special videos pop up in my YT feed recently. Which got me thinking.... has anyone here actually seen that all the way through? I haven't. I was born in 76, so have the vaguest of memories of TESB being released, and of course by the time of RotJ I was fully immersed on the SW universe. I had the toys, VHS tapes, Halloween costumes... I don't think I was even aware of the Holiday Special till many, many years later.

I can't say I have a specific recollection of watching it, but I feel absolutely certain I did when it first aired.  I was born in 1967, so I saw the original at a drive-in theater with my sister and her husband and 8-month old daughter.  I was a few months shy of my 10th birthday.  I think my sister and bro-in-law had already seen it, and I recall my niece crying a lot.

The Holiday Special aired on Friday, November 17, 1978, which was the Friday before Thanksgiving.  I had turned 11 a few weeks earlier and was right in the target age for something like this.  If you were born in 76, I think it would have been virtually impossible for you to have been aware of it, and it's never been rebroadcast and was largely forgotten until the original trilogy started becoming widely available in the early/mid-90s.  One reviewer apparently wrote (long after the fact), "I'm not convinced the special wasn’t ultimately written and directed by a sentient bag of cocaine."  But 11-year old me almost certainly didn't know any better and had no issues with it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on November 18, 2019, 11:06:16 PM
1) I know the original movies have been cleaned up a little bit over the years, but the special effects using physical models have stood up way better over time than the CGI in the prequels.

The model, miniature work, and visual effects ILM did on those movies (and other work around that time like Wrath of Khan) is nothing short of remarkable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 19, 2019, 09:05:29 AM
Just secured (5) tix for opening night for the family. Back row, dead center, Dream loungers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on November 19, 2019, 11:53:41 AM
A New Hope: I love this movie. Probably my favorite of all time. It never gets old. I haven't ever watched the Bluray version, which I'm assuming is what's on Disney+ and it looks great!

Some dumb observations that I haven't thought about much before:
Why didn't they stop and change ships when they knew the Empire was tracking the Falcon?
Why is Luke, a kid who just showed up, leading one of the torpedo runs down the trench?
Why did they all fly around shooting at stuff in the Death Star battle? Just go straight to the exhaust port and everyone launch torpedoes at it until one goes in. Fly straight down from above toward it!
Greedo shooting first is "macklunky" - That's going to be my new stand-in phrase for bullshit

1. Can't tell you;
2. I think PG1067 answered this right; he was the only one left.
3. I think it was a requirement to get past the surface defenses of the Death Star.  You'll note that early in the attack there were surface cannons firing at the ships.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on November 19, 2019, 11:54:40 AM
I'm one episode into The Mandalorian and it feels like Jim Henson's Star Wars. Meaning, I don't know if I like this yet, but I'm leaning towards disliking it. Some real Muppet vibes here.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on November 19, 2019, 11:59:41 AM
I'm one episode into The Mandalorian and it feels like Jim Henson's Star Wars. Meaning, I don't know if I like this yet, but I'm leaning towards disliking it. Some real Muppet vibes here.

Maybe it's my lowered expectations after how meh the last 3 movies have been but I'm really digging it. Nice with a Star Wars story that's smaller in scope and doesn't have death stars, sith lords, jedi or lightsabers shoved into it. :p
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on November 19, 2019, 12:01:56 PM
I'm one episode into The Mandalorian and it feels like Jim Henson's Star Wars. Meaning, I don't know if I like this yet, but I'm leaning towards disliking it. Some real Muppet vibes here.

What instantly hooked me were the look, sound and feel of the show.  The sound of the landspeeder was exactly the same as Luke's and it just fully brought me back to being a kid in the 1980's with one, single sound.  The binocular images were very similar to the first film.  Small things that just made me feel that this show absolutely belongs to the era of the original trilogy (it is set right after ROTJ).

That's enough for me right there - whatever story they're telling and how it may fit in the current canon is just icing on the top.  I love that the show feels so much like the Star Wars that I grew up with.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on November 19, 2019, 12:07:32 PM
So.... I've watched the trilogies before, several times, and want to do it again before the next film comes out.

What's the preferred order?  I'm thinking of going in the order of release, not chronological.   I've done both, but can't remember which one I liked better.    :P
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on November 19, 2019, 12:17:24 PM
That, and just the overall look and feel.  The environment just feels...right.  And the use of CGI is fantastic.  I mean, other than the 2-legged riding lizards (I forget what they are called), there is nothing that jumps out and LOOKS totally CGI. 
I'm one episode into The Mandalorian and it feels like Jim Henson's Star Wars. Meaning, I don't know if I like this yet, but I'm leaning towards disliking it. Some real Muppet vibes here.

What instantly hooked me were the look, sound and feel of the show.  The sound of the landspeeder was exactly the same as Luke's and it just fully brought me back to being a kid in the 1980's with one, single sound.  The binocular images were very similar to the first film.  Small things that just made me feel that this show absolutely belongs to the era of the original trilogy (it is set right after ROTJ).

That's enough for me right there - whatever story they're telling and how it may fit in the current canon is just icing on the top.  I love that the show feels so much like the Star Wars that I grew up with.

That, and just the overall look and feel.  The environment just feels...right.  And the use of CGI is fantastic.  I mean, other than the 2-legged riding lizards (I forget what they are called), there is nothing that jumps out and LOOKS totally CGI. 

So.... I've watched the trilogies before, several times, and want to do it again before the next film comes out.

What's the preferred order?  I'm thinking of going in the order of release, not chronological.   I've done both, but can't remember which one I liked better.    :P

Have you tried Machete Order (https://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/)?  I have always wanted to try that out, but haven't gotten around to it.  But it seems like a compelling way to tell the story.  I remember being skeptical the first time I started reading that blog article.  But as I read through it, he overcame my skepticism by the end.  And if you want to modify it to include ep. I, just insert that right before ep. II. 

If I had the time, I'd love to do that, and also weave in Rogue One and Solo.  But weaving in the two stand-alones removes the drama that is the point of that viewing order, so I guess I would leave them out.  So the Skywalker saga order would go:  IV, V, I, II, III, VI, VII, VIII.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 19, 2019, 12:54:54 PM
Why is Luke, a kid who just showed up, leading one of the torpedo runs down the trench?
2. I think PG1067 answered this right; he was the only one left.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but it always seemed to me that each group of three fighters went into the trench with the leader, who's job it was to launch the torpedo into the vent, and two guys trailing behind to hold off the fighters. Luke was clearly the leader of his trio because he had his targeting computer on while Biggs and the other guy were there to hold off the fighters. Why wouldn't Biggs or the other guy, who had presumably been with the Rebellion for longer, been the torpedo guy with Luke trailing and holding off the fighters? Luke had done nothing to prove his piloting skills prior to this point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 19, 2019, 12:56:18 PM
I'll also do a rewatch, but I'm going to have to blow off Solo. Just don't think it adds anything helpful, necessary, or entertaining.

I feel like I'll just do I, II, III, Rogue One, IV, V, VI, VII, and VIII.

The other one, I think would be interesting, but maybe just a bit too jarring for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on November 19, 2019, 01:00:57 PM
I'm absolutely doing this.  Might even start tonight.   

I'm going to do the Machete Order:  IV, V, II, III, VI, then I'm going to do Rogue One (which I've seen), then Solo (which I have not seen) then The Force Awakens (which I've seen) and The Last Jedi (which I have not seen).   That puts me fresh into the new film.   I will likely start with the Mandalorians after that.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on November 19, 2019, 01:15:28 PM
I don't mean to go all "prequel-hate," but if I had time to do even a partial major re-watch, I would probably do:  Rogue One, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, and leave out the PT.  Not that it's bad.  But I doubt there will be anything there that is necessary to provide context of IX, and I think it sets up the trilogy nicely in terms of Vader's story. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 19, 2019, 02:58:13 PM
I don't mean to go all "prequel-hate," but if I had time to do even a partial major re-watch, I would probably do:  Rogue One, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, and leave out the PT.  Not that it's bad.  But I doubt there will be anything there that is necessary to provide context of IX, and I think it sets up the trilogy nicely in terms of Vader's story.

There have been some rumors (that oh dear god I hope are false) for IX that might deal with prequel stuff.



Such as possible Hayden Christensen. Who knows?

Rogue one definitely tried to pay off some of the better prequel aspects, such as Bail Organa. And The Mandalorian is throwing a considerable amount of Holiday Special references at us. And given JJ's hard on for references, I wouldn't be too shocked to see prequel stuff referenced.

Is it necessary though? Probably not.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 19, 2019, 04:57:50 PM
Just from the mere fact that Palpatine is again the central antagonist has made me lose some interest. Sure, i love the character, but we’ve been down this road already. But i am remaining optimistic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 20, 2019, 06:13:07 AM
Just from the mere fact that Palpatine is again the central antagonist has made me lose some interest. Sure, i love the character, but we’ve been down this road already. But i am remaining optimistic.
I don't have a problem with Palpatine if done well. It's better to drag him out than to introduce a new villian at this stage of the game.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on November 20, 2019, 09:47:32 AM
I don't mean to go all "prequel-hate," but if I had time to do even a partial major re-watch, I would probably do:  Rogue One, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, and leave out the PT.  Not that it's bad.  But I doubt there will be anything there that is necessary to provide context of IX, and I think it sets up the trilogy nicely in terms of Vader's story.

There have been some rumors (that oh dear god I hope are false) for IX that might deal with prequel stuff.



Such as possible Hayden Christensen. Who knows?

Rogue one definitely tried to pay off some of the better prequel aspects, such as Bail Organa. And The Mandalorian is throwing a considerable amount of Holiday Special references at us. And given JJ's hard on for references, I wouldn't be too shocked to see prequel stuff referenced.

Is it necessary though? Probably not.

I didn't read your small print, but as long as they don't bring back any one-dimensional, wooden, stone-faced actors from the prequels...

:) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 20, 2019, 09:53:06 AM
Luckily you described every actor from the prequels, possibly excluding Ewan, Jackson, and Ian.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on November 20, 2019, 10:11:03 AM
Actually, I think he epitomized Ewan and Jackson in those films.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 20, 2019, 10:15:41 AM
Actually, I think he epitomized Ewan and Jackson in those films.  :lol

Really? While no one was great I thought those two did pretty well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 20, 2019, 10:39:29 AM
Just from the mere fact that Palpatine is again the central antagonist has made me lose some interest. Sure, i love the character, but we’ve been down this road already. But i am remaining optimistic.
I don't have a problem with Palpatine if done well. It's better to drag him out than to introduce a new villian at this stage of the game.

Same. I actually think with how much his character has influenced everything that has happened....it seems only fitting that he'd be brought back into the mix to 'end' this entire saga. I'm of the opinion that the fact it was announced and acknowledged that Palpatine is back is a distraction of sorts to a more 'surprising' reprisal.....and that would be Anakin coming back to put an official 'end' to the Skywalker story. I mean, the title even says 'Rise of Skywalker'

Everyone's postulating this has to do with Rey or Kylo....when it could very well be Anakin returning to destroy the dark side once and for all. And, if done well.....I wouldn't have an issue with that either.

Leave all the 'new' stories/characters etc etc to the future ideas and movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zook on November 21, 2019, 10:20:02 AM
Last Star Wars movie I watched in full was Rogue One. I'm holding out hope that one day they'll release the OT without the garbage CGI additions, so I can watch it without cringing, but I remember those movies being fun and had heart. The prequels never seemed fun. I think I saw every one in theaters, and I domt think I ever watched them again outside of clips. Plus all the usual criticisms that I agree with. Bad acting is a major pet peeve. I just can't get past it. The Force Awakens was fun. I wouldn't say R1 was fun, but an entertaining Sci-fi movie nonetheless. Plus that Darth Vader scene was bad ass.

I like The Mandalorian. It has that OT feel. It's fun. I started watching TLJ, but I already didnt like the beginning, and its abundance of negative reviews aren't helping me want to finish it. Is it worth it? I'm not even really that interested in TROS, but curious how it ends.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on November 21, 2019, 10:34:35 AM
I totally agree with Zook on the "fun" part of things. It's almost as if that's a crime these days.  But I can remember sitting in the theater with my dad and brother (it's the first movie and still one of the very few that I've ever seen multiple times in the the theater) and smiling from ear to ear almost the whole time.   I went and saw the re-release back when the prequels were about to come out and it was the same thing, even though by that time I had seen it so many times I could basically recite the dialogue through the film (it felt almost like going to mass that way). 

No disrespect to anyone here, but the acting is FOR ME, an over-blown criticism.  I'm not there to see Hamlet live on stage, any more than I want to hear a 64-bar John and Jordan 32nd note tandem run in the middle of a Cheap Trick song. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 21, 2019, 10:40:33 AM


No disrespect to anyone here, but the acting is FOR ME, an over-blown criticism.  I'm not there to see Hamlet live on stage, any more than I want to hear a 64-bar John and Jordan 32nd note tandem run in the middle of a Cheap Trick song.

But that's a false equivalency. Not counting the fact that Shakespeare can also be acted poorly, the idea that if it's not world class master acting (which I assume you were implying) then it's all equal is not true. I don't need the greatest acting from mankind ever, but I want the actors to do the best job they can. I don't want bad acting in any movie, no matter how fun it is. Fun doesn't negate good. You can make the most fun movie in the world, and I STILL want them to do their best. And that applies to everything, writing, directing, FX, etc. When it becomes "who cares? It's fun, just accept crap" then I'm out.

To make a food analogy, I once went to a subway and literally walked out when they were making my sandwich. They were being THAT lazy and uncaring that I walked out, and I've never done that before or since. I don't say "Well, I'm not expecting Wolfgang Puck, so just do whatever and it's all the same" no. I want the best Subway sandwich they can make, I want them to put some effort and care into it because I'm paying for that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zook on November 21, 2019, 10:50:48 AM
Marvel movies are both fun and have some amazing acting. I don't think I've ever been moved the way those movies do. Star Wars has never done that, even the OT, but I can't remember any bad acting that took me out of the movie. I haven't seen them in many years though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 21, 2019, 10:53:13 AM
I'd also like to point out that, of the main actors in the prequels, mainly Hayden, Sam Jackson, Natalie, Ewan, Ian, etc, they are all fantastic actors. The fact that they mostly suck is, I feel, completely George Lucas's fault.

Except the kid who played young Anakin. That kid was just bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on November 21, 2019, 10:54:13 AM
As a noob with the Star Wars lore... I thought Yoda was the last of his kind. What's the deal with this baby in the Mandalorian? I thought it took place after ROTJ? I'm so confused.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zook on November 21, 2019, 11:05:21 AM
I'd also like to point out that, of the main actors in the prequels, mainly Hayden, Sam Jackson, Natalie, Ewan, Ian, etc, they are all fantastic actors. The fact that they mostly suck is, I feel, completely George Lucas's fault.

Except the kid who played young Anakin. That kid was just bad.

I feel sorry for that kid. There have been plenty of bad child actors in movies, but he was hated so bad just because it was Star Wars. It kind of ruined his life.

You think George Lucas and M. Night Shamalamadingdong are friends?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 21, 2019, 11:10:41 AM
I'd also like to point out that, of the main actors in the prequels, mainly Hayden, Sam Jackson, Natalie, Ewan, Ian, etc, they are all fantastic actors. The fact that they mostly suck is, I feel, completely George Lucas's fault.

Except the kid who played young Anakin. That kid was just bad.

I feel sorry for that kid. There have been plenty of bad child actors in movies, but he was hated so bad just because it was Star Wars. It kind of ruined his life.

You think George Lucas and M. Night Shamalamadingdong are friends?

Well, Haley Joel was a fantastic actor, and still kind of is.

And I do really feel bad for Jake Lloyd, he seems so bitter (and rightfully so) about how his life went after that. That said, he's the one actor (of the main cast) that I don't blame George Lucas for.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on November 21, 2019, 11:11:36 AM


No disrespect to anyone here, but the acting is FOR ME, an over-blown criticism.  I'm not there to see Hamlet live on stage, any more than I want to hear a 64-bar John and Jordan 32nd note tandem run in the middle of a Cheap Trick song.

But that's a false equivalency. Not counting the fact that Shakespeare can also be acted poorly, the idea that if it's not world class master acting (which I assume you were implying)

Just as an aside, what IS it with the Shakespeare hate here?  This is the second time I've used Shakespeare as a euphemism for something respected and admired and had it shit on.  :)  It's undeniable that for years and years, the mark of a good actor was their interpretation of one of the greater of Shakespeare's works, often (for English actors) at the Globe Theater itself.

Of COURSE Shakespeare can be badly acted, and (to the other case) of COURSE not every work by Billy is legendary.  But in the interest of keeping it fun and interesting, there's a spirit to the reference, even if the letter is not perfectly accurate.  ;)

(This is all meant tongue in cheek and for a laugh.)

Quote
then it's all equal is not true. I don't need the greatest acting from mankind ever, but I want the actors to do the best job they can. I don't want bad acting in any movie, no matter how fun it is. Fun doesn't negate good. You can make the most fun movie in the world, and I STILL want them to do their best. And that applies to everything, writing, directing, FX, etc. When it becomes "who cares? It's fun, just accept crap" then I'm out.

To make a food analogy, I once went to a subway and literally walked out when they were making my sandwich. They were being THAT lazy and uncaring that I walked out, and I've never done that before or since. I don't say "Well, I'm not expecting Wolfgang Puck, so just do whatever and it's all the same" no. I want the best Subway sandwich they can make, I want them to put some effort and care into it because I'm paying for that.

I agree with you; I do.  I just think there's a middle ground.  For the record, I admire you for the sandwich reaction; I would like to think I would do the same thing under the right circumstances.   But I also don't need the mayo to be home-made, the onions organically grown, the oil EVOO, the vinegar to be cask-aged...   For me, with only a few exceptions the acting hasn't been distractingly bad, and while I'm going to back and rewatch them in anticipation of the next installment I can't say I've disliked any of the movies BECAUSE of the acting.  It's like Robert Ludlum; he's NOT a great writer in the sense of "prose", but before you realize that he's adverbed the paragraph to death, Jason Bourne has shot two people chasing him, jumped out the second story window, and commandeered a vehicle to escape Zurich.   

And for the record, I'm not shitting on anyone who DOES have the opinion that the acting ruined it for them. That's their call to make; I'm only saying that it's not like that for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on November 21, 2019, 11:16:41 AM
I'd also like to point out that, of the main actors in the prequels, mainly Hayden, Sam Jackson, Natalie, Ewan, Ian, etc, they are all fantastic actors. The fact that they mostly suck is, I feel, completely George Lucas's fault.

Except the kid who played young Anakin. That kid was just bad.

As cruel as it sounds, I HATE kid actors.   I really do.  I didn't think the kid in Jerry Maguire was cute or charming, I never bought into the Olsen twins phenomenon, hated the "Coreys" both single and together, and I still to this day wonder why every kid on a network TV show under the age of 12 talks like they spoke their first words last Tuesday.  "Mommy, is that man a bad man?  Will he hurt my daddy, mommy?"   GTFO.   I've got four kids in my immediate family and another 10 at least in satellite, plus all their friends, and I don't know one kid that talks that way.

The only one I really like?  Peter Billingsley.  He's got just enough of a hint of a subversive kid-level F-You in his performance (you know what I'm talking about) to make it legendary without being saccharine or fake.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 21, 2019, 11:16:57 AM
First of all, your tongue is always welcome to my cheek. Or something.


But I think I was more going against the lowered acceptance level. I saw it a lot with Transformers. "I don't care if it's good, I just want it to be fun." Jesus Herman Christ, why can't it be both? Why are we assuming that fun equals not good? Why are we willing to have it be bad as long as it's fun? I mean, I get that some things are trying to be bad and fun, and that's different. That's the intent.

Lazy is what won't tolerate. Transformers isn't meant to be bad, they just stopped caring and became VERY lazy.

On the prequels, GL became so focused on the visuals that he just became lazy with everything else. If you see behind the scenes or hear interviews with the actors, you'll see what I mean. That is something I don't tolerate. Campy is fine. Bad with intent is fine. Lazy because who cares it'll look pretty? Nope.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on November 21, 2019, 11:18:27 AM
First of all, your tongue is always welcome to my cheek. Or something.


But I think I was more going against the lowered acceptance level. I saw it a lot with Transformers. "I don't care if it's good, I just want it to be fun." Jesus Herman Christ, why can't it be both? Why are we assuming that fun equals not good? Why are we willing to have it be bad as long as it's fun? I mean, I get that some things are trying to be bad and fun, and that's different. That's the intent.

Lazy is what won't tolerate. Transformers isn't meant to be bad, they just stopped caring and became VERY lazy.

On the prequels, GL became so focused on the visuals that he just became lazy with everything else. If you see behind the scenes or hear interviews with the actors, you'll see what I mean. That is something I don't tolerate. Campy is fine. Bad with intent is fine. Lazy because who cares it'll look pretty? Nope.

No, I hear you and I actually agree with you.  We're kind of talking about different things (and that's my bad).   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 21, 2019, 11:21:16 AM
First of all, your tongue is always welcome to my cheek. Or something.


But I think I was more going against the lowered acceptance level. I saw it a lot with Transformers. "I don't care if it's good, I just want it to be fun." Jesus Herman Christ, why can't it be both? Why are we assuming that fun equals not good? Why are we willing to have it be bad as long as it's fun? I mean, I get that some things are trying to be bad and fun, and that's different. That's the intent.

Lazy is what won't tolerate. Transformers isn't meant to be bad, they just stopped caring and became VERY lazy.

On the prequels, GL became so focused on the visuals that he just became lazy with everything else. If you see behind the scenes or hear interviews with the actors, you'll see what I mean. That is something I don't tolerate. Campy is fine. Bad with intent is fine. Lazy because who cares it'll look pretty? Nope.

No, I hear you and I actually agree with you.  We're kind of talking about different things (and that's my bad).

I think I understand your overall point. If I go to the local community theater to see Les Miserables, I don't expect Broadway level talent. That's fine and dandy, as long as those people are giving it their all.

But with the prequels? Those were some god damn talented people giving us crap. Like I said, I blame Lucas because I feel he got VERY lazy with his directing and didn't do a good job doing what he was supposed to do. But the end result is the same, sub-par acting. The fact that's it's Star Wars doesn't change that. I wouldn't care if it's Star Wars or Fart Wars, I want good actors to give me good acting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zook on November 21, 2019, 11:28:41 AM
I'd also like to point out that, of the main actors in the prequels, mainly Hayden, Sam Jackson, Natalie, Ewan, Ian, etc, they are all fantastic actors. The fact that they mostly suck is, I feel, completely George Lucas's fault.

Except the kid who played young Anakin. That kid was just bad.

As cruel as it sounds, I HATE kid actors.   I really do.  I didn't think the kid in Jerry Maguire was cute or charming, I never bought into the Olsen twins phenomenon, hated the "Coreys" both single and together, and I still to this day wonder why every kid on a network TV show under the age of 12 talks like they spoke their first words last Tuesday.  "Mommy, is that man a bad man?  Will he hurt my daddy, mommy?"   GTFO.   I've got four kids in my immediate family and another 10 at least in satellite, plus all their friends, and I don't know one kid that talks that way.

The only one I really like?  Peter Billingsley.  He's got just enough of a hint of a subversive kid-level F-You in his performance (you know what I'm talking about) to make it legendary without being saccharine or fake.   

Or when 10 year olds talk like adults. Pure cringe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on November 21, 2019, 12:40:47 PM
I wouldn't mind a Hayden Christiansen cameo as a force ghost or something in EP9 (or a cameo in the Kenobi show) because like others have said I feel like the biggest problem with the prequels isn't the actors but the writing and the directing. I doubt Daniel Day Lewis would have fared much better reading the "I hate sand" dialogue.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2019, 12:47:10 PM
I agree with almost everything Adami has said over the last page or so, EXCEPT the part about Jake Lloyd.  I DO blame Lucas for his acting/dialog.  I have no clue whether or not he is a quality actor (or, more to the point, whether he was at that time).  But I don't blame Lloyd for stupid lines like "Let's try spinning!" or "THIS is podracing."  He didn't come up with those lines.  Lucas did.  I didn't have any problem with the way he delivered his lines, either the examples that I pointed to or others.  I had a problem with the lines themselves. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 21, 2019, 12:51:00 PM
I agree with almost everything Adami has said over the last page or so, EXCEPT the part about Jake Lloyd.  I DO blame Lucas for his acting/dialog.  I have no clue whether or not he is a quality actor (or, more to the point, whether he was at that time).  But I don't blame Lloyd for stupid lines like "Let's try spinning!" or "THIS is podracing."  He didn't come up with those lines.  Lucas did.  I didn't have any problem with the way he delivered his lines, either the examples that I pointed to or others.  I had a problem with the lines themselves.

I only blame Lloyd because I have seen him in other things around that time and he was equally bad.

I doubt Lucas helped at all though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on November 21, 2019, 03:49:30 PM
I have only seen Jake Lloyd in 2 movies - The Phantom Menace and Jingle All the Way and he is really bad in both and overacting but they're both comedic farces so it's hard to tell how much is on the directing, the writing and the actual acting. I do think one of the big flaws of the prequel trilogy is that TPM feels so detached from the other 2. Anakin is basically a new character in AotC and we skipped over all the training and bonding he had with Obi-Wan, so I kinda feel like TPM is unnecessary in many ways. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 21, 2019, 04:02:38 PM
Anakin is basically a new character in AotC and we skipped over all the training and bonding he had with Obi-Wan, so I kinda feel like TPM is unnecessary in many ways.

Agree 100%, I would have liked it better if:

Episode I- goes over all the conflict that leads to the breakout of the clone wars and "begun is clone war has" is the end of Episode I
Episode II- Full blown clone war, and the run & gun life or death survival brings Anakin/Padme closer together instead of the picnic/forced love  scenes we got

Episode III- Wrap up of the Clone war and Rise of the empire (which is basically what we got)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 22, 2019, 08:49:52 AM
Mandalorian Episode 3 was excellent. Lots of kick ass action  :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on November 22, 2019, 08:28:25 PM
Agreed, I love the bounty hunter world and really hope there is more of that later on.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on November 22, 2019, 09:00:06 PM
Has anyone else mentioned that it's obviously shot in 1:2.35?   I'm wondering what the purpose of this is if not to maybe re-release it in theaters as a Fathom event?     I just can't see another logical reason why this would have been shot widescreen like it is. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 22, 2019, 09:24:20 PM
Side Note:

Being that they are planning the Obi Wan series to show the happenings and goings on with him during that period of time after ROTS and ANH.....Id personally love to see them do the same with Vadar.

Show him just terrorizing the galaxy for all those years.....being a bad a$$.....build the lore in more detail. Plus it’d be a cool way to do a show....from the perspective of a ‘bad’ guy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on November 23, 2019, 06:40:44 AM
Side Note:

Being that they are planning the Obi Wan series to show the happenings and goings on with him during that period of time after ROTS and ANH.....Id personally love to see them do the same with Vadar.

Show him just terrorizing the galaxy for all those years.....being a bad a$$.....build the lore in more detail. Plus it’d be a cool way to do a show....from the perspective of a ‘bad’ guy.

I read the two books of the extended universe that chronicled the events right before and right after ROTS - Labyrinth of Evil and Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader (both written by the same guy).  The latter had Vader hunting down Jed.  Both were pretty fucking cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 23, 2019, 08:08:33 AM
I wouldn't mind them doing a Vader series if James Earl Jones is on board. Once he's no longer willing or able to do Vader's voice, I think they need to retire that character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 23, 2019, 01:22:36 PM
I wouldn't mind them doing a Vader series if James Earl Jones is on board. Once he's no longer willing or able to do Vader's voice, I think they need to retire that character.

I would think that they could re-create that voice by now? I’d personally be fine with a recreated voice that was in the ballpark.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 23, 2019, 04:31:39 PM
I wouldn't mind them doing a Vader series if James Earl Jones is on board. Once he's no longer willing or able to do Vader's voice, I think they need to retire that character.

I would think that they could re-create that voice by now? I’d personally be fine with a recreated voice that was in the ballpark.
I'm sure they could. It would just seem wrong though. And I think it would be better for star wars to love on to other things for a while
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 24, 2019, 01:24:01 PM
I wouldn't mind them doing a Vader series if James Earl Jones is on board. Once he's no longer willing or able to do Vader's voice, I think they need to retire that character.

I would think that they could re-create that voice by now? I’d personally be fine with a recreated voice that was in the ballpark.
I'm sure they could. It would just seem wrong though. And I think it would be better for star wars to love on to other things for a while

I don't disagree. It'd be neat to delve into other aspects of that universe. Lots of options. I just think a Vadar series set in him 'prime' years of terror and reign...were it be done right..... would be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 24, 2019, 01:41:20 PM
I disagree about a Vader series. For a series to work, the main character needs a compelling arc. They need to start in one place and end up somehow changed. Or it’s just not super interesting. We know there isn’t a huge difference between Vader at the end of Revenge and the beginning of A New Hope. You could easily force an arc of sorts but it wouldn’t be organic. As neat as it would be to see Vader hunt down Jedi and be awesome, I can’t see 8-10  episodes being compelling. Maybe if the show were about the Jedi being hunted. That way we can make a good character arc since we don’t know them, and Vader can be the villain and thus not necessarily need a compelling character turn or growth.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 24, 2019, 01:47:58 PM
I disagree about a Vader series. For a series to work, the main character needs a compelling arc. They need to start in one place and end up somehow changed. Or it’s just not super interesting. We know there isn’t a huge difference between Vader at the end of Revenge and the beginning of A New Hope. You could easily force an arc of sorts but it wouldn’t be organic. As neat as it would be to see Vader hunt down Jedi and be awesome, I can’t see 8-10  episodes being compelling. Maybe if the show were about the Jedi being hunted. That way we can make a good character arc since we don’t know them, and Vader can be the villain and thus not necessarily need a compelling character turn or growth.

That would be interesting. But....at the same time we know most of them would be caught and killed by Vadar. The killer aspect of that cameo on R1 was his complete badassery when boarding the Rebel ship in chase of the downloaded plans. Seeing him throttle people was just awesome....and, given how feared he was it'd be cool to see him in more instances where he's battled and won.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 24, 2019, 02:25:45 PM
I agree seeing Vader be awesome is awesome. But it won’t make a good show. It makes for good scenes though. It’s like ice cream. It’s delicious but if we it for every meal, it quickly turns to regret. And even if we know the Jedi die at the end, that’s fine. It can still be a character journey. Vader in that time frame really has no character journey, just cool scenes.

I just think if you want more cool Vader scenes, then use him for that purpose. Like in Rogue 1. Have him show up as the bad guy on occasion and mess stuff up. But let other new people be the protagonists of the show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 24, 2019, 06:22:41 PM
I agree seeing Vader be awesome is awesome. But it won’t make a good show. It makes for good scenes though. It’s like ice cream. It’s delicious but if we it for every meal, it quickly turns to regret. And even if we know the Jedi die at the end, that’s fine. It can still be a character journey. Vader in that time frame really has no character journey, just cool scenes.

I just think if you want more cool Vader scenes, then use him for that purpose. Like in Rogue 1. Have him show up as the bad guy on occasion and mess stuff up. But let other new people be the protagonists of the show.

I’m In. Make it happen!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 25, 2019, 07:10:04 PM
My prediction for The Mandelorian is that baby Yoda is being saught after by the person who will become supreme leader Snoke. Snoke wants to steal baby Yoda's midichlorians in order to grow his own Force powers. He will ultimately succeed.

You saw it here first. :)

Though I don't actually hope The Mandelorian ties in directly with the sequel trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 25, 2019, 07:42:34 PM
My prediction for The Mandelorian is that baby Yoda is being saught after by the person who will become supreme leader Snoke. Snoke wants to steal baby Yoda's midichlorians in order to grow his own Force powers. He will ultimately succeed.

You saw it here first. :)

Though I don't actually hope The Mandelorian ties in directly with the sequel trilogy.

Oh god I hope you’re wrong. No offense.

If the main message of this show us that nothing in the entire SW matters unless it relates to the big movies, then that is a damn shame.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on November 25, 2019, 08:23:56 PM
What Adami said.  This better be 100% standalone.  Everything else has had to tie in to the SW movies in some way.  It would be nice to see something stand on it's own merits.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 26, 2019, 05:50:53 AM
I hope I'm wrong too. I want it to be a standalone series as well. I'd rather it didn't tie in to anything else. I do almost wish they'd left the Force out of it altogether, though baby Yoda is cute as hell. We'll see where it all goes I guess.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on November 26, 2019, 06:31:58 AM
I don't think I would mind if the setup is Snoke wants the baby for future apprentice or to kill it (maybe fearing it can get too powerful) because then it would tie into the overall story a bit but the implications don't have to be that big. But if it's about stealing its midichlorians and thats how Snoke got powerful then it has a big impact on the movies and at that point I don't like it. I feel like you can tie certain things together without making them depend on each other. If for example Snoke only wants the baby dead then it doesn't impact the movies BUT if it's how he got his powers then it changes things.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on November 26, 2019, 07:06:22 AM
I don't think I would mind if the setup is Snoke wants the baby for future apprentice or to kill it (maybe fearing it can get too powerful) because then it would tie into the overall story a bit but the implications don't have to be that big. But if it's about stealing its midichlorians and thats how Snoke got powerful then it has a big impact on the movies and at that point I don't like it. I feel like you can tie certain things together without making them depend on each other. If for example Snoke only wants the baby dead then it doesn't impact the movies BUT if it's how he got his powers then it changes things.

See, I just don't want it connected to the new movies. At all. I just can't get behind the message that nothing in the ENTIRE GOD DAMN SW UNIVERSE matters at all unless it ties into Jedi and the Empire and Snoke and Skywalkers. Like, a good show about bounty hunters is great. It would just suck if we're told that no one is of any importance unless it's related to the big movies.

To be fair, I also feel this way about Marvel. I would see a lot of people complaining about how movies like Ant-Man weren't worth watching because it didn't directly tie into Thanos and stuff. I just don't get that. I like having the overall plot, but having unrelated stuff happen is also really fun.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on November 26, 2019, 07:29:00 AM
I don't think I would mind if the setup is Snoke wants the baby for future apprentice or to kill it (maybe fearing it can get too powerful) because then it would tie into the overall story a bit but the implications don't have to be that big. But if it's about stealing its midichlorians and thats how Snoke got powerful then it has a big impact on the movies and at that point I don't like it. I feel like you can tie certain things together without making them depend on each other. If for example Snoke only wants the baby dead then it doesn't impact the movies BUT if it's how he got his powers then it changes things.

See, I just don't want it connected to the new movies. At all. I just can't get behind the message that nothing in the ENTIRE GOD DAMN SW UNIVERSE matters at all unless it ties into Jedi and the Empire and Snoke and Skywalkers. Like, a good show about bounty hunters is great. It would just suck if we're told that no one is of any importance unless it's related to the big movies.

To be fair, I also feel this way about Marvel. I would see a lot of people complaining about how movies like Ant-Man weren't worth watching because it didn't directly tie into Thanos and stuff. I just don't get that. I like having the overall plot, but having unrelated stuff happen is also really fun.

Oh yeah I mean overall I prefer if this stays its own thing. If they HAVE to connect things (which I guess they want because its the fan service thing to do) I feel like there's better ways to do it. But yeah one of my favorite things about the show so far is the lack of jedi, sith and death stars, there's no giant looming galaxy destroying threat, it's just a pretty simple story that takes place in the universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 29, 2019, 06:13:39 AM
So baby Yoda is pretty much the cutest thing ever.

And The Mandalorian Episode 4 was pretty good!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on November 29, 2019, 10:11:12 AM
Yup, excellent episode. Really hope the Cara Dune character comes back, liked her.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on November 29, 2019, 02:16:05 PM
Yup, excellent episode. Really hope the Cara Dune character comes back, liked her.
yeah, I was hoping she would stick around for a while. I enjoyed there being more dialog in this episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on November 29, 2019, 05:22:55 PM
Just finished Ep.4. Color me surprised by Gina Carano. She was so wooden in Deadpool but she was really good here. I have to believe she is coming back because she is on a lot of the posters and other stuff I see for the show. I would bet we might get her for the rest of the season. We're still missing the droid from the posters and artwork I have seen.

Anyway, another really good episode. So glad they didn't wimp out and CGI the baby. Going the Muppet route is absolutely the right move.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 30, 2019, 04:50:46 AM
Cara Dune reminds me of Mara Jade and I like that. Episode 4 was decent
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on November 30, 2019, 05:22:23 AM
Yup, excellent episode. Really hope the Cara Dune character comes back, liked her.
yeah, I was hoping she would stick around for a while. I enjoyed there being more dialog in this episode.

IMDB has her coming back for more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 30, 2019, 07:31:28 PM
I recently played Jedi Fallen Order. Great game! I strongly recommend for anyone who has not played, and if you're not a gamer, there are probably worse ways to spend your time than watching an abridged version via YouTube. :metal

On a less exciting note, I searched for "Star Wars" on YouTube in search of the newest TV spot. One of the first videos I saw was some random video with hundreds of thousands of views that was entitled FANS TRY TO JUSTIFY REY BEING A MARY SUE!!! I have no idea why this video was recommended to me, but damn if it isn't annoying for Star Wars to always lead to some dumpster fire fan being pissed off about something.

Not saying the new movies don't deserve criticism BTW. Just that it can kill the vibe sometimes. And now I'm killing the vibe. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on November 30, 2019, 07:51:57 PM
I also recommend Fallen Order. Its a lot of fun and the graphics are fantastic. The salvage yard first level is jaw dropping in places.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on November 30, 2019, 08:24:10 PM
Just finished Ep.4. Color me surprised by Gina Carano. She was so wooden in Deadpool but she was really good here. I have to believe she is coming back because she is on a lot of the posters and other stuff I see for the show. I would bet we might get her for the rest of the season. We're still missing the droid from the posters and artwork I have seen.

Anyway, another really good episode. So glad they didn't wimp out and CGI the baby. Going the Muppet route is absolutely the right move.

I thought episode 4 was the most entertaining, and she was fun to watch. I really liked watching the baby in that episode too. I wonder if we'll finally get some details on what his race is... or if it's just there as a cleverly marketed fan love character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on November 30, 2019, 08:41:44 PM
Jon Faverau really loves Kung Fu. 

(the show, not the fighting style)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on November 30, 2019, 08:41:49 PM
Ep. 4 spoilers...






Baby Yoda is hilariously awesome. I legit twitched and died when that scope zoomed in on him and the birds flew. They didn't even give a second to get ready for inevitable doom. Every episode seems like its needs a scene to show just to make it appear baby yoda is bye bye.
.. and I'm loving it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 01, 2019, 01:10:33 PM
It is pretty funny that Baby Yoda is both the primary focus of the show right now and the primary comic relief.

Every time he's in the ship he is playing with knobs and buttons, and it's funny. Every time Mando tells him to stay, you know what's going to happen and it's still funny. The soup drinking scene, etc.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 02, 2019, 12:07:02 PM
Really enjoying 'The Mandalorian'. I wish the episodes were longer but I can get over that. They're done well and the story is moving at a pretty good pace. The character is being built brick by brick....and I think the payoff with them taking their time to build this character will probably be worth it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 02, 2019, 01:59:17 PM
So, Mandalorian, ep. 4...  I have mixed feelings.  I kinda like the '80s gang-on-the-run feel, ala A-Team, The Incredible Hulk, etc.  And there's something about a "train the villagers to fight" montage that works every single time.  I saw a comment somewhere else that cracked me up:  "Mando should start the training/planning by saying, 'OK, to start we’re gonna need, like, six Ewoks.'"  :lol  The only real issue I had with this episode is one of my common complaints within the Star Wars universe and many other popular franchises, which is that I hate when either in terms of time, or distance, or scale, things are too "small."  For instance, it annoys me when travel that has to take a considerable amount of time happens instantaneously.  Or when locations that, of necessity, must be fairly distant are artificially very close together.  It is usually very correctable, and takes me out of the moment when it is fairly obvious.  This episode had some of that.  For instance, the enemy encampment was how far away from the village?  Close enough that a dude in full armor could run the full distance at a dead sprint without passing out.  i.e. VERY close.  That's just...odd.  You don't camp that close to your enemies, no matter how superior your numbers.  And that is especially true when your primary strategy seems to be: whenever we need food, let's sneak up, and then burst forth and take what we need from these villagers who are caught completely off-guard and can only just run away.  Again, not a huge deal.  But it is SO easy to correct that it is all the more annoying that they do it.  Anyhow, that said, this was another fun episode.  This is a great series.  :tup

EDIT:  And pretty good article theorizing about how tracking fobs actually work, which is cool since, on its face, the series seems to contradict itself on a couple of points.  https://www.theringer.com/mandalorian/2019/11/29/20988035/mandalorian-chapter-4-recap-sanctuary-baby-yoda-sorgan
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 03, 2019, 08:25:21 AM
I love this story:

Quote
Disney Screens ‘Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker’ Three Weeks Early for Dying Fan

Disney chairman and CEO Bob Iger marked the Thanksgiving holiday by allowing the studio’s upcoming holiday tentpole “Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker” to screen three weeks early for a terminally ill “Star Wars” fan at Rowans Hospice in Hampshire, England. The medical center confirmed the patient and his son watched “Rise of Skywalker” on November 29, 2019. Iger wrote on social media that Disney was “grateful to be able to share” the film early, adding, “May the force be with you and with us all.”

Rowans Hospice issued a statement on behalf of the patient, who has decided to remain anonymous. “I just want to say the biggest thank you to everyone that has helped to make this happen,” the patient said. “During what is just a horrible situation to be in, you have helped to make some wonderful memories and bring some joy to my family. I am a huge ‘Star Wars’ fan and what I am going through is completely dire. Then to top it all, I thought I wasn’t going to see the film I have been waiting to see since 1977. I still can’t believe it. The only way I can describe this to you is to say that this must be what it feels like to be told you have won a million pounds.”

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/12/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-screens-early-dying-fan-1202193518/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on December 03, 2019, 01:25:55 PM
Wow, that's awesome.   :heart
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 04, 2019, 02:27:21 PM
A 1:00 am showing was just added to a local theater on 12/19. I'm going that night at 9:30pm with the family.....but....am tempted to go and see this right out of the gate
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on December 04, 2019, 02:41:08 PM
I love this story:

Quote
Disney Screens ‘Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker’ Three Weeks Early for Dying Fan

Disney chairman and CEO Bob Iger marked the Thanksgiving holiday by allowing the studio’s upcoming holiday tentpole “Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker” to screen three weeks early for a terminally ill “Star Wars” fan at Rowans Hospice in Hampshire, England. The medical center confirmed the patient and his son watched “Rise of Skywalker” on November 29, 2019. Iger wrote on social media that Disney was “grateful to be able to share” the film early, adding, “May the force be with you and with us all.”

Rowans Hospice issued a statement on behalf of the patient, who has decided to remain anonymous. “I just want to say the biggest thank you to everyone that has helped to make this happen,” the patient said. “During what is just a horrible situation to be in, you have helped to make some wonderful memories and bring some joy to my family. I am a huge ‘Star Wars’ fan and what I am going through is completely dire. Then to top it all, I thought I wasn’t going to see the film I have been waiting to see since 1977. I still can’t believe it. The only way I can describe this to you is to say that this must be what it feels like to be told you have won a million pounds.”

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/12/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-screens-early-dying-fan-1202193518/


 :heart

Glad Disney was able to do it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 06, 2019, 05:16:44 AM
Yet another great episode of The Mandalorian. The show is very decent.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 06, 2019, 06:53:18 AM
It's a fun show from episode to episode. I really am enjoying the self contained nature of these episodes. With another 3 epidoses left I would imagine we will now dive more into Mando's consequences of taking baby Yoda plus maybe learn the importance of the baby and why the empire wanted them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 06, 2019, 07:27:13 AM
Damn, forgot to watch this morning. I have to get up super early on Fridays and usually watch it first thing. Forgot all about it today.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 06, 2019, 03:10:07 PM
The latest episode was also packed with references to the movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 06, 2019, 07:51:40 PM
Saw a headline that read:

“Star Wars Fans Aren’t Arguing About ‘The Mandalorian’ and It’s Weird”

 :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 06, 2019, 08:43:15 PM
I thought it was cool that there was actually communication with the Tuscan Raiders. That was a first and fleshed them out a little more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on December 06, 2019, 09:15:51 PM
Saw a headline that read:

“Star Wars Fans Aren’t Arguing About ‘The Mandalorian’ and It’s Weird”

 :lol

:lol My son mentioned this exact headline at dinner tonight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 07, 2019, 06:16:10 AM
A few too many call backs and fan service things in the latest episode, but I still enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 07, 2019, 07:53:50 AM
A few too many call backs and fan service things in the latest episode, but I still enjoyed it.

I think it just had to do with the fact he was on Tatooine. Anything that was said or where he went would seem familiar.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 07, 2019, 08:02:37 AM
I think, for being where they were, they handled the callbacks very well. It was logical rather than winking at the camera.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 07, 2019, 09:12:47 AM
I think, for being where they were, they handled the callbacks very well. It was logical rather than winking at the camera.

The Han/Greedo table was a painful wink at the camera.  Otherwise, I agree with you.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 07, 2019, 10:07:52 AM
I think, for being where they were, they handled the callbacks very well. It was logical rather than winking at the camera.

The Han/Greedo table was a painful wink at the camera.  Otherwise, I agree with you.
That was the one that was the most over the top for me. The mention of beggar's canyon was a bit much for me as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 07, 2019, 05:17:39 PM
Doing my big rewatch before Episode IX. Not counting any TV shows (though I am watching Mandalorian) and I'm also skipping Solo since it sucks and is pointless.


Did Episode I a few days ago, and....oh man, it's just so bad. It's actually worse than I remember it being. It's aimed at little kids for so much of it, but the plot is about trade federation embargos? Eh.

Doing Episode II now, and.......it's even worse. Everything so far has just been stupid as hell. Anakin jumps out of the flying car and lands on the assassins car? He'd have to know where she was, how fast she was going, exactly when she'd be when, etc, to make that jump. "I hate when he does that"...HOW MANY TIMES IS HE DOING THAT?!?

Also, Palpatine hires Dooku to kill Padme. He hires some other people (I think) they hire Jango. Jango hires shapeshifting girl. Shapeshifter uses droid. Droid uses evil worms. Seriously?

(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/china-hitmen-trial-court-01.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=618&h=410&crop=1)

I guess not so unrealistic after all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 07, 2019, 06:27:58 PM
Wait, they wanted any army but knew the senate would never approve an army. So instead the senate approves emergency powers? Come on!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 08, 2019, 08:40:04 AM
I too just re-watched Phantom Menace, the tone is very confusing throughout. The acting and dialogue is meant to be simplistic and I guess appeal to younger kids but like you said the story is very convoluted for a child to follow. Hell I'm not sure of it myself, it's not very clear. CGI Yoda I do have to admit looked better than the puppet Yoda they originally used.

The look of the movie on Blu-ray has not aged well at all. The entire movie looks like a dream sequence and the textures haven't upscaled well, only passable CGI character is Watto I think.

Getting ready to watch Attack of the Clones.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 08, 2019, 10:26:23 AM
Doing Episode II now, and.......it's even worse. Everything so far has just been stupid as hell. Anakin jumps out of the flying car and lands on the assassins car? He'd have to know where she was, how fast she was going, exactly when she'd be when, etc, to make that jump. "I hate when he does that"...HOW MANY TIMES IS HE DOING THAT?!?

Because the Force!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 09, 2019, 10:59:15 AM
Caught up on The Mandalorian now.  I share precisely zero of the complaints a few people have about that episode.  But my son made an interesting observation in a tongue-in-cheek manner:  For Tatooine to be such an out-of-the-way, backwater, nowhere planet, a lot of important people seem to randomly show up there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 09, 2019, 11:11:29 AM
Caught up on The Mandalorian now.  I share precisely zero of the complaints a few people have about that episode.  But my son made an interesting observation in a tongue-in-cheek manner:  For Tatooine to be such an out-of-the-way, backwater, nowhere planet, a lot of important people seem to randomly show up there.

Star Wars, in general, is one of those things where if you start really thinking about stuff like that, it all falls apart, so we just don't think about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 09, 2019, 11:22:11 AM
Oh, sure.  I like that he could say something like that, and we could just laugh it off and enjoy the episode.  That's a lot of Star Wars for me.  The world-building and character building is so much fun, and the environment is so immersive, that it's easy for me to shrug off a lot of stuff that really bothers a lot of people and just have fun with it. 

That said, I've been thinking a little bit about the overall story arc of the films now and was thinking about doing a short film-by-film list of the things I loved/hated about each one.  Not to hate on any of them, but just for fun now that we're near the end of the Skywalker saga.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 09, 2019, 09:05:24 PM
Here's the thing.   The booth that is so infamous to us...is just a booth in this universe.    I mean, *I* sat at Lemmy's spot at the Rainbow Bar and Grill on the Sunset Strip.   It's just a spot at the bar.   Lots of people sit in that booth.   People sit in that booth every...single...day.   Most of the time nothing happens.   We see a few times when it did.   

And to be honest, in this episode, we saw almost nothing happen.  Which almost makes it MORE real.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 10, 2019, 07:24:52 AM
Here's the thing.   The booth that is so infamous to us...is just a booth in this universe.    I mean, *I* sat at Lemmy's spot at the Rainbow Bar and Grill on the Sunset Strip.   It's just a spot at the bar.   Lots of people sit in that booth.   People sit in that booth every...single...day.   Most of the time nothing happens.   We see a few times when it did.   

And to be honest, in this episode, we saw almost nothing happen.  Which almost makes it MORE real.

I agree. I actually like the fact that the bar was basically dead. It was a more real approach. If the bar had been packed with the Kantina band and everything, it would've taken me out of it a bit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 10, 2019, 10:28:02 AM
My take on the story so far is below.  I think maybe I'll do one of these a day.  I want to keep them short and relatively concise, but still have enough for discussion.  Anyway, here is the first:

Ep. I The Phantom Menace:  Lucas really wanted to play up the political intrigue in how the seeds of the empire were first planted.  By and large, I think it worked.  But the problem for him is that he also wanted to market the film to kids.  This resulted in a film (and trilogy) that felt very bi-polar and unsure of what it wanted to be.  By and large, I think this movie was okay.  It had some brilliant moments, but was mired in some stuff that didn't work for me and a lot of others. 

Three things that worked
-1.  Palpatine operating behind the scenes the way he did.  Even though we all knew he was Sidious, it didn't matter.
-2.  Maul:  Probably self-explanatory.
-3.  The pod race:  I will grudgingly give this one, in the general sense.  I have come around after a long time.  But I still think it needed to be fixed.
Three things that didn't:
-1.  The way Anakin won the pod race:  It was too silly.
-2.  Anakin's involvement in the final space battle:  This and the previous point go together.  I see what Lucas was going for.  On one hand, Anakin's force sensitivity was off the charts, so he would be gifted in using the force even if he didn't know it.  On the other hand, he was a gifted pilot as well.  But the way Lucas tried to show both Anakin's force sensitivity and his piloting skills was completely ineffective and came across as him blundering into doing the right thing by just dumb luck.  And "let's try spinning" was just stupid, as was randomly pushing buttons while shooting up the interior of the mother ship. 
-3.  Padme being so much older than Anakin.  Not a problem just for this film.  But knowing what was coming, it just takes me out of the moment SO much.  And, yes, this bothers me more than Jar-Jar.  I guess I could have gone for the low-hanging fruit and pick Jar-Jar.  But, honestly, Jar-Jar wasn't that big of a problem.  Yeah, he was dumb and over the top at times.  But he didn't really distract me.  The other three issues were bigger in terms of the whole PT.
Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Really, only a couple of things.  Re-do the pod race so that (1) Anakin is not so far behind and miraculously catches the rest of the pack for no good reason other than...just because, and (2) he actually shows some skill and force sensitivity.  Yeah, he can still be a kid who doesn't necessarily understand all the nuances of how or why he is so good.  But we needed something.  Similarly, fix the final space battle in a similar way.  And lastly, have "Queen Amidala," the main political figure in this mess, be an older woman and be Padme's mom.  Just have Padme be the princess who is much closer to Anakin's age, and have them immediately take to each other.  She can still have some role in helping with the conflict to show that she will grow into an important, capable woman.  And it somewhat eliminates the creep factor and suspension of belief in Ep. II, and actually works to make their later romance more believable.

More to follow...


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 10, 2019, 10:31:10 AM
As far as Palpatine's manipulation goes, I'll give you ...most...of the political stuff.

Though him getting emergency powers in II is still really dumb and illogical.

But Anakin could not have been a part of any plan and must have been a happy coincidence.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 10, 2019, 10:45:47 AM
Ep. I The Phantom Menace:  Lucas really wanted to play up the political intrigue in how the seeds of the empire were first planted.  By and large, I think it worked.  But the problem for him is that he also wanted to market the film to kids.  This resulted in a film (and trilogy) that felt very bi-polar and unsure of what it wanted to be.  By and large, I think this movie was okay.  It had some brilliant moments, but was mired in some stuff that didn't work for me and a lot of others. 

This is a good, succinct summary of the problem with this movie.  I liked it at the time and don't dislike it now, but I don't love it.


-3.  Padme being so much older than Anakin.  Not a problem just for this film.  But knowing what was coming, it just takes me out of the moment SO much.  And, yes, this bothers me more than Jar-Jar.  I guess I could have gone for the low-hanging fruit and pick Jar-Jar.  But, honestly, Jar-Jar wasn't that big of a problem.  Yeah, he was dumb and over the top at times.  But he didn't really distract me.  The other three issues were bigger in terms of the whole PT.
Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Really, only a couple of things.  Re-do the pod race so that (1) Anakin is not so far behind and miraculously catches the rest of the pack for no good reason other than...just because, and (2) he actually shows some skill and force sensitivity.  Yeah, he can still be a kid who doesn't necessarily understand all the nuances of how or why he is so good.  But we needed something.  Similarly, fix the final space battle in a similar way.  And lastly, have "Queen Amidala," the main political figure in this mess, be an older woman and be Padme's mom.  Just have Padme be the princess who is much closer to Anakin's age, and have them immediately take to each other.  She can still have some role in helping with the conflict to show that she will grow into an important, capable woman.  And it somewhat eliminates the creep factor and suspension of belief in Ep. II, and actually works to make their later romance more believable.

I agree with this, but I think Jar Jar is more than just low-hanging fruit, and this ties back into the bi-polar nature of the movie.  JJ was a reasonable distraction when he was first introduced, and it was useful that he could provide the jedi with a place to hide from the initial droid army invasion.  But that's as far as it realistically should have gone.  The most unbelievable part was JJ, a bumbling oaf who had been banished, acting as a broker between the Naboo and the Gungans.  It was also distracting having all of the Gungans basically being Keystone Cops, with any advances they made on the battlefield being completely absurd consequences of JJ's clumsiness.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 10, 2019, 10:57:10 AM
...The most unbelievable part was JJ, a bumbling oaf who had been banished, acting as a broker between the Naboo and the Gungans.  It was also distracting having all of the Gungans basically being Keystone Cops, with any advances they made on the battlefield being completely absurd consequences of JJ's clumsiness.

Yeah, I don't really disagree with any of that.  But I had a much easier time overlooking that than the stuff I mentioned.  JJ was, at best, a sidekick.  Anakin is the centerpiece of the entire saga and is much more important, so issues with him being unbelievable are much more glaring to me.  And the Padme thing fits right into that because, next to Obi Wan and Sidious, she is arguably the most important character in the PT, and because her relationship with Anakin goes right back to my first point about Anakin being the centerpiece.  But, yes, I basically agree with you.  I guess that would be my "3.b."  And like much of my criticisms, I can't escape feeling that, with only relatively minor tweaking, Jar-Jar could have been just fine.  Just dial back the "bumbling oafishness" enough to not have the consequences of his clumsiness/silliness be SO absurd, and I think you have an acceptable middle ground of getting the laughs from little kids while not being so distracting to make the adults roll their eyes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 10, 2019, 11:10:16 AM
I actually take a little issue with the "kids" thing.  Not in the targeting, but in the way he did it.  I think a lot of the criticisms of Lucas are overblown, but IF you're going to say he's tone-deaf with love stories, and tone-deaf with this, and tone-deaf with that, then you have to say he's tone-deaf with appealing to kids.  I was ten when I saw Star Wars - twice - and I was all in within about nine minutes of screen time (seeing the hot chick playing with the robot, and the tall black-suited guy, and I was sold; the Star Destroyers, light sabres and Jawas were just icing on the cake at that point).  There is no universe where "Jar-Jar" would have appealed to me as a kid.  None. 

Likewise, the sort of oblivious kid who rises to the surface against all odds (and his own ignorance) was equally unappealing.  At least Luke - in A New Hope - was a young kid, but he had dreams, skills, desires, and ambition.  HE made sense.

Maybe I was a weird kid, I don't know.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 10, 2019, 11:31:33 AM
...The most unbelievable part was JJ, a bumbling oaf who had been banished, acting as a broker between the Naboo and the Gungans.  It was also distracting having all of the Gungans basically being Keystone Cops, with any advances they made on the battlefield being completely absurd consequences of JJ's clumsiness.

Yeah, I don't really disagree with any of that.  But I had a much easier time overlooking that than the stuff I mentioned.  JJ was, at best, a sidekick.  Anakin is the centerpiece of the entire saga and is much more important, so issues with him being unbelievable are much more glaring to me.  And the Padme thing fits right into that because, next to Obi Wan and Sidious, she is arguably the most important character in the PT, and because her relationship with Anakin goes right back to my first point about Anakin being the centerpiece.  But, yes, I basically agree with you.  I guess that would be my "3.b."  And like much of my criticisms, I can't escape feeling that, with only relatively minor tweaking, Jar-Jar could have been just fine.  Just dial back the "bumbling oafishness" enough to not have the consequences of his clumsiness/silliness be SO absurd, and I think you have an acceptable middle ground of getting the laughs from little kids while not being so distracting to make the adults roll their eyes.

This is balance that TFA and TLJ achieved very well, IMO.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 10, 2019, 11:52:56 AM
I actually take a little issue with the "kids" thing.  Not in the targeting, but in the way he did it.  I think a lot of the criticisms of Lucas are overblown, but IF you're going to say he's tone-deaf with love stories, and tone-deaf with this, and tone-deaf with that, then you have to say he's tone-deaf with appealing to kids.  I was ten when I saw Star Wars - twice - and I was all in within about nine minutes of screen time (seeing the hot chick playing with the robot, and the tall black-suited guy, and I was sold; the Star Destroyers, light sabres and Jawas were just icing on the cake at that point).  There is no universe where "Jar-Jar" would have appealed to me as a kid.  None. 

Likewise, the sort of oblivious kid who rises to the surface against all odds (and his own ignorance) was equally unappealing.  At least Luke - in A New Hope - was a young kid, but he had dreams, skills, desires, and ambition.  HE made sense.

Maybe I was a weird kid, I don't know.

GL was tone-deaf with appealing to kids in the prequels as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 10, 2019, 01:42:53 PM
Mandalorian, ep. 5...  I lol'd a bit at this:

Quote
I took the droid running the cantina as an in-world joke at the expense of the various sides in the SJW debate. I’m not quite sure who got poked fun at, and it may have been all sides. A droid that would have once been completely excluded from that bar is now running the place, occupying the same physical space (and, in a bar, place of power) formerly occupied by the white, male, droidophobic Wuher.

It’s a dream come true for woke social justice droids like L3-37, and it’s the worst nightmare come true for their opponents. It’s Rey replacing Luke as our protagonist, Finn and Rose being given any screen time at all, girl Ghostbusters, a female Thor, a female Doctor, and a black James Bond, all rolled into one droid serving drinks.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 10, 2019, 01:48:20 PM
Oh, and I have to add something to my Phantom Menace post that I meant to talk about, but forgot:  R2 and C3PO do NOT need to be in these films.  Neither Anakin nor Obi-Wan have any recollection of them by the time we get to the OT, so they absolutely should not have been shoehorned in here. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 10, 2019, 01:57:14 PM
Oh, and I have to add something to my Phantom Menace post that I meant to talk about, but forgot:  R2 and C3PO do NOT need to be in these films.  Neither Anakin nor Obi-Wan have any recollection of them by the time we get to the OT, so they absolutely should not have been shoehorned in here.

Yup.

I was okay with R2 having a limited role, but 3PO was unnecessary.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 10, 2019, 02:06:54 PM
Watched the prequels as an Actual Kid (not even pre-teen), and before the main movies, though I knew most of the plot. I honestly can't remember being annoyed many times by Jar-Jar. I was just used to antropomorphic talking characters that are mildly exaggerated in all of their annoying qualities. Having said that, I wouldn't request a toy of him either  :laugh:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 10, 2019, 03:27:22 PM
Oh, and I have to add something to my Phantom Menace post that I meant to talk about, but forgot:  R2 and C3PO do NOT need to be in these films.  Neither Anakin nor Obi-Wan have any recollection of them by the time we get to the OT, so they absolutely should not have been shoehorned in here.

Ehhh...I don't disagree with the conclusion.  However, Obi-Wan's only comment about the droids was that he didn't remember ever owning a droid, and that's true.  He never owned either of them.  It's not like he was going to say, "Oh yeah!  I never owned those droids, but your dad (who, by the way, is now Darth Vader) built the protocol droid, and the astromech droid was all over the place when your dad and I were in our heyday."  He wasn't exactly being completely truthful with Luke, and he did have kind of a smirky look on his face when he said, "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."  There were also numerous other astromech droids and protocol droids that looked exactly like C3PO.

As for Vader, he didn't see either one of the droids until they got to Cloud City in ESB, and I don't think a "Wait...could it be...C3PO?!  What's up, bruh?!  I built your ass (not that you'd remember, I suppose)!"

But again, I agree that they were unnecessary inclusions -- especially the whole Darth Vader built C3PO storyline.  Including them necessitates coming up with a bunch of explanations.

Also, watch this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoLZ6xzLjuY
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 10, 2019, 03:52:34 PM
Yeah, I don't buy that.  It's pretty obvious that Lucas just changed his mind and retconned the droids into the prequel storyline.  And he's entitled to do that.  But it ends up being clunky and distracting. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 10, 2019, 04:21:55 PM
Yeah, I don't buy that.  It's pretty obvious that Lucas just changed his mind and retconned the droids into the prequel storyline.  And he's entitled to do that.  But it ends up being clunky and distracting.

I agree about the retconning.  It's unnecessary, but it really never bothered me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 10, 2019, 04:29:35 PM
Tonight is Revenge of the Sith for me and I am so not excited. I know a lot of people legitimately consider this a good/great SW film but I remember it being sooooo bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on December 10, 2019, 04:38:03 PM
It is. The whole prequel series was brutal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 10, 2019, 04:58:02 PM
Tonight is Revenge of the Sith for me and I am so not excited. I know a lot of people legitimately consider this a good/great SW film but I remember it being sooooo bad.

It's my best friend's favorite Star Wars movie. He insists it is a good film, and I insist it is not. It leads to hilariously impassioned discussions.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 10, 2019, 04:59:09 PM
Well, just stand on some higher ground and you automatically win the argument.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 10, 2019, 08:55:56 PM
To be fair, it is the best of the PT.  The cream of the crap.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 10, 2019, 09:49:36 PM
To be fair, it is the best of the PT.  The cream of the crap.

This is true, but that doesn't make it a good movie.   People call it a decent movie in a desperate attempt to legitimize the PT.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 11, 2019, 05:20:54 AM
I don't know about that... I'm not sure I care one way or another about "legitimizing" anything, I just like what I like.   It started to get into the vibe and feel of IV and V, which I like.  In contrast, I'm indifferent about VI; not a fan of Ewoks.  Thought that was stupid and a too-obvious nod to getting a "feel good" moment. 

It shouldn't surprise anyone that I'm not a fan of those quippy, knowing, winking moments in films (generally, not just Star Wars), the catch-phrases, and what not.  I get it, it's what moves tickets, but as soon as I hear something like "Hasta la vista, baby!" or "I'll be bok" repeated ad nauseam, I'm out.   To me, the Ewoks were a nod in that direction. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 11, 2019, 07:11:37 AM
Halfway through Attack of the Clones and I don't mind the story as much even though it really isn't anything great, I think the delivery of the dialogue is what I'm kinda put off by the most. The acting is distracting at times and the clunky dialogue doesn't help.

And of course the Padme-Anakin love story is hilariously bad and even worse than I remember.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 11, 2019, 07:18:16 AM
Watched III last night. Good lord, what a dumpster fire.

So, I'm not going to go too much into the negatives because there are so many and I just don't want to give it that energy, but on the positive side, I will list the few things I liked about this movie.

1) The few scenes between Palpatine and Anakin before he goes "I AM SITH LORD MWAHAHAHA" on him. Ian's acting is just fantastic, somehow. Sadly, there's only like two of these scenes in this needlessly long movie.
2) Yoda being awesome when he 1) Back flip cuts off the head of the clone troopers, 2) Throws his lightsaber into another one, and 3) Casually waves his hand and knocks out the two armed guards for Palpatine.

That's....about it. The rest of this movie is terrible. And yes, the final fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan is awful. It's just SO over the top that the emotion they were trying to convey is lost. And the awful dialogue doesn't help much either.

"Love can't save you Padme...only my new powers can do that"...........ugh

Also, few random thoughts.

1) Grievous should really have been able to kill Obi-Wan in like 5 seconds. I'm sorry, if a few clones can take out a Jedi, then 4 freaking light sabers moving in constant motion (SHUT UP) should be too much for him.
2) Those Jedi should have been able to kill Palpatine as well. They mostly just casually stood there when he killed them.
3)....what happens to wounded clone soldiers? Like, if one loses a leg and is out of the fight. Is there a planet of out of commission clones? Do they get individual identities to live out lives? Are they just killed because who cares? Are they constantly sent back into battle until they die? What happens if they win? Peace in the universe, now what? You have millions of clones. Are they just slave soldiers?
4) What were the separatists fighting for at this point? Like, say they win. What do they get? I couldn't figure out their motives, it just felt like constant escalation with no goal.

Anyway, terrible movie. Rogue One in a few days, and I remember liking that one a lot more than most.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 11, 2019, 07:27:53 AM
I never thought about point #3. That's a good one. I agree Grievous should've owned Obi-Wan. I still don't understand Grievous's coughing, also.

My favorite line out of every single Star Wars film is Palpatine's, "No... no, no, YOU will die!!" It's SO hammy.  :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 11, 2019, 10:37:11 AM
To be fair, it is the best of the PT.  The cream of the crap.

This is true, but that doesn't make it a good movie.   People call it a decent movie in a desperate attempt to legitimize the PT.

Huh?!  Which people are you talking about?

I'd call it more than a "decent movie" (unfortunately, as the third movie in the trilogy, it sits on a shaky foundation), and I have no interest in "legitimizing" anything, much less desperately so.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zook on December 11, 2019, 11:42:57 AM
So I'll be skipping this one too. Yikes. Tis all I'll say. Yikes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 11, 2019, 11:45:54 AM
So I'll be skipping this one too. Yikes. Tis all I'll say. Yikes.

Huh?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zook on December 11, 2019, 11:52:21 AM
So I'll be skipping this one too. Yikes. Tis all I'll say. Yikes.

Huh?

Spoilers are spilling online. Wasn't all that interested in seeing it anyway, but now I definitely won't. I still haven't watched more than 20 minutes of TLJ. I'm gonna have to rewatch TFA, cause I really enjoyed it in theaters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 11, 2019, 11:55:50 AM
So I'll be skipping this one too. Yikes. Tis all I'll say. Yikes.

Huh?

Spoilers are spilling online. Wasn't all that interested in seeing it anyway, but now I definitely won't. I still haven't watched more than 20 minutes of TLJ. I'm gonna have to rewatch TFA, cause I really enjoyed it in theaters.

Ohh gotcha. I'm mostly avoiding spoilers, but Star Wars has never been super important to me, so if I accidentally read some, I don't care much. This is mostly a cultural thing and it's the last in this series, so it's exciting from that perspective. Of course I couldn't get tickets til the Saturday, so I'll have to avoid most of the internet for a day or two, which is annoying.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 11, 2019, 08:19:34 PM

Spoilers are spilling online. Wasn't all that interested in seeing it anyway, but now I definitely won't. I still haven't watched more than 20 minutes of TLJ. I'm gonna have to rewatch TFA, cause I really enjoyed it in theaters.

After Last Jedi, I lost all interest in SW and definitely any interest in IX, but boy those spoilers are fantastic  :lol

I read absolutely every single one and I can't wait for next week. The fallout on this one is gonna be a lot of fun.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 11, 2019, 10:07:10 PM
I’ll be checking out of this thread now.......
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 12, 2019, 08:51:06 AM
Ep. II – Attack of the Clones:  To me, if you read a plot summary of this film, it has really good bones and is a story worth telling.  It’s just in the execution that it fell flat.  From the way the romance is handled, to Anakin’s general broodiness, to the battle droid factory, it comes across as a big mess.  But it’s actually a good story at its core, and has some really good moments and great visuals (even if it relied too much on green screen and CGI as a whole).  Picking up the political intrigue thread, it’s kinda cool seeing how Sidious was so skilled at setting up a threat in the separatist movement that was big enough to convince the Senate to approve a clone army, but with sufficient internal weaknesses that he could later crush it once it had fulfilled its purpose.  The seeds of the empire are growing and preparing to bear fruit, and had some missteps not gotten in the way, seeing that unfold would be pretty chilling.

Three things that worked:
-1.  World-building.  Going off on a tangent for just a second here…  I have a hard time merging films and video games into a convincing canon.  But the Star Wars Dark Forces game in the late ‘90s was the first time I felt like a game had a compelling story, was immersive and made you feel like part of a familiar universe, and convincingly expanded that universe with interesting places that fit well and felt huge.  Lucas blatantly borrowed from that game twice in the PT, and it worked very well both times.  Seeing more of Coruscant, including some seedier parts, it felt big, and it felt right.  Kamino was also very different and cool.  Overall, the world-building in this episode mostly felt spot-on.
-2.  Seeds of the Empire:  See my brief synopsis above.  It’s a shame this major plot point got lost a bit, because it was a great concept, and it worked pretty well if you didn’t get distracted by the nonsense and take your eye off the ball.
-3.  Jedi light saber mania on Geonosis:  1,000 light sabers.  Or something like that.  Who cares that the fight itself ended up being lame?  Well, okay, admittedly, probably almost ALL of us care.  But still, this needed to happen somewhere in the PT, and I remember it bringing down the house in the theater.

Three things that didn’t:
-1.  The love interest between Anakin and Padme.  It was just off in so many ways.  But like so many things in the PT, I feel like the idea had good bones, and Lucas just had no idea how to write it to make it convincing.  I think it would have been so much better if he had just made them the same age, and let someone other than Lucas write the dialog.  The idea of two childhood friends who share a common bond, yet live in two separate worlds that force them to be something other than what they long to be together could be very compelling and relatable if done better.
-2.  The relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan:  Part of me thinks that Lucas had a difficult task in showing Anakin begin to wander down the dark path.  But part of me thinks the story was just sitting there on a gold platter and he just had no clue what to do with it.  The idea of Anakin struggling with not fitting into the Jedi Order’s ideals and being ridden harder than other padawans because of his unique circumstances, the prophecy, and his potential vulnerability to the dark side are good ideas.  But the way Obi-Wan rode him and publicly humiliated him on several occasions really show his utter failure as a mentor rather than highlighting Anakin’s vulnerability. 
-3.  The droid factory:  If it wasn’t clear before this, the droids, and especially C3PO, are now primarily relegated to cheap comic relief.  Bad move, George.  Nobody thought this was funny or cool.

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  I mentioned in my previous installment that Padme and Anakin should have been closer in age.  That would have helped this episode.  But the primary problem was simply the dialog.  It was bad in so many places and ruined so many potentially great scenes.  Closing the age gap and just making the dialog between Padme and Anakin better would have made their relationship more believable and made it resonate more with us.  And that, in and of itself, would have made any other flaws so much easier to overlook and tolerate.  That, to me, is the easiest fix.  And maybe include just a tiny bit more about how important his mother is to him early on as well.  That way, when he finally goes back to find her, and she dies and he absolutely loses it on the sand people, we can actually feel something instead of just seeing something on screen that we are indifferent to.  And we can actually feel Padme simultaneously being horrified by the darkness within Anakin, while being drawn to him and wanting to comfort him.  So much potential there that could have gone somewhere rather than falling flat due to cringeworthy dialog and lack of emotional build-up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 12, 2019, 11:00:55 AM
I was reading your last paragraph, and was immediately struck by a memory of "Superman v. Batman", an equally vilified movie, but one I liked very much.

I have been reading Superman and Batman comics since I was in single digits.  Collected comics, have several anthologies of the older, more expensive books, watched the old Superman (50's) and Batman (60's) TV shows religiously, and followed their arcs in the movies.  Less so Superman, but played extensively the Batman games from the SuperNES and PS3 (the Arkham series).  My kid and I even joke that I'm "Batman".

I never once ever put together that both their mom's were named "Martha".  So that scene when Batman comes around to help Superman by saving "his Martha" - remember, Batman has been shown to be driven by the death of HIS "Martha" - it was really compelling and made the entire movie for me (not to mention that the fight scene when Batman goes to rescue Martha is the best superhero fight scene I've ever seen).  So calling her "mom" isn't enough; you DO need more, and in contrast to "SvB", I think Lucas came up short. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 12, 2019, 11:06:40 AM
I agree about the story points, bosk, it's not a bad plot line per se, the execution and everything else around it is very subpar. The world building is also amazing which I think Rogue one did a great job in continuing that aspect.

Almost done with Revenge of the Sith. I do think the story comes together in this movie and some of the parts are great but others just there. The acting has suffered the most in the prequel trilogy I feel. The CGI is a lot better and makes the scenes a lot more believeable.

The final duel between Anakin and Obi-wan is a mixed bag for sure, I think it was far too drawn out and not really effective in conveying the emotion of the rift between them. I do have to say Hayden was a lot better in this movie compared to Clones.

I will probably watch Solo next and then Rogue One and then onto the OT.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 12, 2019, 11:33:19 AM
The prequel trilogy, as a whole, is a misbegotten mess with no real purpose.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 12, 2019, 11:36:36 AM
I and II are whack, but I've always really enjoyed III. Its a flawed gem for me. There's issues for sure, but every time I put it on, I have a good time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 12, 2019, 01:05:13 PM
I've always thought there was enough there to keep the prequels interesting, but they're certainly not good movies by any stretch.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 12, 2019, 08:35:04 PM
Got done with Solo, I really enjoyed this on 2nd watch. It's a fun movie with really interesting characters and about the only thing annoying was the overdone aspect of the dice. Other than that its a fun movie that doesn't add much to the main storyline other than give some backstory.

On to Rogue One!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on December 12, 2019, 08:47:16 PM
I liked Solo.  It had a whole lot stuff that they pretty much had to include, and most of it was done pretty well, plus the movie had its own story.  It wasn't just backstory for the main episodes.  I thought the "twist" with L3-37 was done really well, and I actually got kinda choked up by it.  Glover as young Lando really nailed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 13, 2019, 04:27:33 AM
Mandalorian episode 6 was freaking awesome. Might have been my favorite yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 13, 2019, 06:50:23 AM
Indeed it was amazing, just two more to go. At least next week's episode will be released early on Wednesday instead of Friday.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 13, 2019, 07:25:26 AM
Also got done watching Rogue One, been a busy Star Wars related few days! Though the story starts a bit convoluted the second half of the movie is a visual treat. The ground warfare, aerial combats, spaceship battles, everything.. and then ending with the Vader's hall scene makes for an epic second half movie.


Now on to the original trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 07:30:40 AM
Apparently Bill Burr has a cameo in episode 6. I'll watch it tonight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 13, 2019, 08:38:21 AM
Yeah, Bill Burr pretty much stars in it. He's one of the man characters
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2019, 09:36:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ewTxPwt.jpg)


I so badly want Disney Plus to do something.....anything Live Action with Ahsoka's character
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 09:44:32 AM
Well, that's certainly an eye-roll worthy comparison.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 09:54:02 AM
Is it? What has Rey done in the last two films besides be a B-rate Mary Sue? And yes I may have thrown that in there just to get you to answer faster  :lol :corn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2019, 10:04:05 AM
Well, that's certainly an eye-roll worthy comparison.

While I agree that Rey's description is not entirely accurate.....I'm more impressed with Ahsoka's list of accomplishments. Being that Clone Wars and Rebels is considered Cannon.....I don't know how you can overlook how great a character she is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 10:10:26 AM
I'm not overlooking anything.  I'm just saying that the comparison chart is silly and misses the point.  If this were the NFL, we could make a similar comparison chart to try to play up how awesome Tom Brady is for all the plays he has made over an extensive career, while downplaying and showing how overrated Lamar Jackson is because his list is so short.  It would be dumb to even make that comparison.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
I'm not overlooking anything.  I'm just saying that the comparison chart is silly and misses the point.  If this were the NFL, we could make a similar comparison chart to try to play up how awesome Tom Brady is for all the plays he has made over an extensive career, while downplaying and showing how overrated Lamar Jackson is because his list is so short.  It would be dumb to even make that comparison.

I know the list is a silly comparison....and the 'you' in my post wasn't directed at 'you' per say.......it was more a broad statement of the lack of recognition Ahsoka gets. I posted that meme more to showcase Ahsoka.....not to rip on Rey.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 13, 2019, 11:04:18 AM
it was more a broad statement of the lack of recognition Ahsoka gets.

Isn't that because Ahsoka's biggest exposure was a terrible animated theatrical release in which she was almost Jar Jar Binks level annoying and because the two cartoon series in which she apparently has been featured, while well known among hardcore fans, are comparatively (to the feature films) obscure?  Also, while Disney may have unilaterally dictated that those cartoons are "canon" (while relegating dozens of novels to little better than fan-fiction status), I'm not sure that decision is necessarily accepted by everyone.  Speaking only for myself, I'd much rather see something featuring Grand Admiral Thrawn, but I don't know if that would even make sense given Disney's re-writing of history.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 11:13:51 AM
For what it's worth, the Clone Wars series predates Disney's assumption of control, so it was "canon" before Disney ("B.D.").  And, for what it's worth, Thrawn's character is canon as well, since he has shown up in those animated series as well, and seems to have his history from the novels mostly implied.  So while the B.D. novels themselves may not be canon, Thrawn is definitely A.D. canon.  So your "much rather" seems "rather likely."  Just sayin'.

But that specific point aside, I think your more general point is fairly well taken.  But from what Disney has done and is doing, at least as far as has been revealed, I think the reality is somewhere in between.  Yes, the two animated series are more obscure than the films for sure.  But they aren't as obscure as you are making them out to be.  And more importantly, the A.D. films have incorporated things that have ONLY showed up in the animated shows.  From the Rise of Skywalker trailers, it is pretty clear that that movie will as well.  And it is looking like The Madalorian also will.  Bottom line: The bigger on-screen Star Wars story is reinforcing the canonicity of those animated series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2019, 11:18:41 AM
For what it's worth, the Clone Wars series predates Disney's assumption of control, so it was "canon" before Disney ("B.D.").  And, for what it's worth, Thrawn's character is canon as well, since he has shown up in those animated series as well, and seems to have his history from the novels mostly implied.  So while the B.D. novels themselves may not be canon, Thrawn is definitely A.D. canon.  So your "much rather" seems "rather likely."  Just sayin'.

But that specific point aside, I think your more general point is fairly well taken.  But from what Disney has done and is doing, at least as far as has been revealed, I think the reality is somewhere in between.  Yes, the two animated series are more obscure than the films for sure.  But they aren't as obscure as you are making them out to be. And more importantly, the A.D. films have incorporated things that have ONLY showed up in the animated shows.  From the Rise of Skywalker trailers, it is pretty clear that that movie will as well.  And it is looking like The Madalorian also will.  Bottom line: The bigger on-screen Star Wars story is reinforcing the canonicity of those animated series.

I get some folks didn't like or have never seen the animated series....but, as Bosk said....it's not as obscure as one would think. They were pretty well received as I recall.


in which she was almost Jar Jar Binks level annoying

Ummm.....Not. Have you seen the Clone Wars or Rebels? Judging from this statement I'd guess no because even in her younger years she was not even in the realm of the annoyance that Jar Jar was. Outside of Anakin's story arc....her arc is the most dynamic and interesting of nearly any SW character in movie or animation.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 11:21:40 AM
He's talking about her portrayal in the animated movie.  And I don't disagree with him.  If there were no growth from how she is portrayed there, she'd be an awful character.

I've only made it part way into season 2 of The Clone Wars (now that I have Disney+, I plan to catch up).  But there's already a nicely-developing character arc happening.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2019, 11:27:47 AM
He's talking about her portrayal in the animated movie.  And I don't disagree with him.  If there were no growth from how she is portrayed there, she'd be an awful character.

I've only made it part way into season 2 of The Clone Wars (now that I have Disney+, I plan to catch up).  But there's already a nicely-developing character arc happening.

Gotcha.....sorry pg1067....was confused there.

Bosk...I'll be interested to see how you view her after you've seen it all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 11:31:30 AM
Well, I'm not discounting your take on her (although I feel you are likely overstating it a bit).  So I don't see myself strongly disagreeing with your general take.  But even if I do end up finding her to be pretty amazing, I still don't really see myself wanting much from the animated series to be further explored on film.  I just don't see the need.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 13, 2019, 11:41:29 AM
Is it? What has Rey done in the last two films besides be a B-rate Mary Sue? And yes I may have thrown that in there just to get you to answer faster  :lol :corn

Hasn't Rey pretty much done the same stuff that Luke did in his first two movies? Not trying to be a smart ass, but off the top of my head, I think their actions are fairly similar, which is no coincidence because the sequels seem to "rhyme" with the originals quite a bit.

IIRC, Luke's main deeds in [IV] were rescuing Leia and destroying the Death Star. In [V], his main deeds were training with Yoda and fighting Vader to save his friends.

Regarding Rey, I think her main deeds in [VII] were escaping the First Order with Finn and kicking Kylo Ren's ass. Then in [VIII] she trained with Luke, which inspired him to get his act together, and saved her friends from the First Order.

I'm sure I forgot a lot of stuff, so take it easy on me! I think my basic point is that Luke and Rey's arcs aren't actually all that different so far. What makes Luke more compelling is that he at least had his ass kicked by Vader... But if we're being honest, Luke also made the right decisions and came out ahead like 90% of the time. I dunno... I guess I just think the Rey Mary Sue thing is just a bit overblown.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 11:46:08 AM
Right... but tell me something about her as a character. Her background is intentionally mysterious, so we know fuck all about her actual backstory which helps flesh out characters a lot. And over 2 movies I can't tell you anything about her character other than she fits the type of a Mary Sue. Orphan scavenger, no family, on a desert planet. Finds the Millennium Falcon, miraculously is able to fix it and fly it like she's been a professional pilot her entire life on the first go. Then she magically tunes in with the Force and is involved with Luke Skywalker, cool, but what about her CHARACTER? What is her motivation, her wants, her needs, her relationship with the other characters? What is her story other than 'character we need to conveniently become a master of the Force and oppose the baddies'? That's specifically why I enjoyed Kylo Ren in TFA more than any other character. We at least see some motivation behind his character, his infatuation with Vader and all that.

That's my problem with Rey and this entire trilogy. Absolutely zero character depth. They do things, but they have a personality as deep as a puddle. (For the record that's my complaint with most Star Wars characters.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 13, 2019, 11:59:52 AM
He's talking about her portrayal in the animated movie.  And I don't disagree with him.  If there were no growth from how she is portrayed there, she'd be an awful character.

I've only made it part way into season 2 of The Clone Wars (now that I have Disney+, I plan to catch up).  But there's already a nicely-developing character arc happening.

Gotcha.....sorry pg1067....was confused there.

Bosk...I'll be interested to see how you view her after you've seen it all.

Yup.  Bosk was right.  My comment was only about her character in the awful movie.  I have seen about the first 10 or so episodes of Clone Wars.  Some were good; some were boring.  I may go back and continue watching, but I'll probably have to start over.  Bit Ahsoka's character was quite different from the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2019, 12:01:38 PM
miraculously is able to fix it and fly it like she's been a professional pilot her entire life on the first go. Then she magically tunes in with the Force and is involved with Luke Skywalker,

well....I think the idea was that with her being a parts scavenger that she knows ships....inside and out.....knows the systems and how to fix them....what to look for etc etc. I've never had an issue with her being able to fix the Falcon or knowing how to fly it. I didn't 'need' to know 'how' she knew that. They never depicted Luke in any craft, only mentioned it in dialogue that he could fly....then BOOM....he's flying an X-Wing.

As far as the Force...again, it's clear that for whatever reason she's been chosen as the 'beacon' for the Force to (wait for it......) Awaken in someone to be able to offset the growing 'dark side'. It's not depicted well in the movie but the graphic Novel adaptation of TFA speaks to when Ren was trying to 'invade' Rey's mind and get the info he wanted....Rey was able to more or less 'download' a lot of Ren's training and enhanced control over his abilities in that moment....ultimately giving her a 'cheat sheet' of sorts to her Force powers.

I'm pretty good with where we're at with Rey's character. A bit more development wouldn't have hurt but I don't think it's all that bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 13, 2019, 12:10:19 PM
I think TFA did fine with Rey's character. Not spectacular, not terrible, but it was a perfectly fine setup for the first out of 3 movies. Some people have weird complaints about her character being overpowered but personally I think almost all of those things can be explained with logic within the film or the universe overall. She flies the falcon great - she obviously has flying experience and the scavenger background is set up. She holds her own against a dying Kylo - also not that weird IMO and I feel also people way overhype how strong Kylo is supposed to be in TFA. She uses jedi mind trick - you could argue she's just strong with the force which doesn't make her that different from Anakin for example. He does some insane things as a kid in The Phantom Menace.

I haven't seen TLJ since the cinema because I felt massively disappointed by it (though I am planning on rewatching it before Ep9 next week) but I do think they could have given us a bit more from her character. I would still argue we got some more development like how she was quite naive and innocent and her approach was "if you're not gonna help me i'm gonna go talk to Kylo and get him back to our side". Kinda hoping Ep9 gives us more but considering it's the end of the trilogy it also feels a bit late at this point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2019, 12:17:41 PM
She holds her own against a dying Kylo

I think this is often overlooked. I mean, that movie made the point on (2) separate occasions to display how 'powerful' Chewie's crossbow weapon was. Then Kylo takes a direct hit to the ribs from it on the bridge after killing Han.

Makes his way out to the forest and proceeds to still have the strength to put a fight together against Rey and Finn.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 12:20:01 PM
miraculously is able to fix it and fly it like she's been a professional pilot her entire life on the first go. Then she magically tunes in with the Force and is involved with Luke Skywalker,

well....I think the idea was that with her being a parts scavenger that she knows ships....inside and out.....knows the systems and how to fix them....what to look for etc etc. I've never had an issue with her being able to fix the Falcon or knowing how to fly it. I didn't 'need' to know 'how' she knew that. They never depicted Luke in any craft, only mentioned it in dialogue that he could fly....then BOOM....he's flying an X-Wing.

See, that's a massive issue for me as well. I hate stuff like that. Now I get it, Star Wars was created as a children's story, okay, but TFA has no excuse for that kinda stuff imo.

As far as the Force...again, it's clear that for whatever reason she's been chosen as the 'beacon' for the Force to (wait for it......) Awaken in someone to be able to offset the growing 'dark side'.

So it's another 'chosen one' scenario, a Mary Sue for the story to have someone unbeknownst to themselves greatly attuned to the Force. The most cliché thing ever, and Star Wars already did it with the Skywalker family.  YAWN. :tdwn

It's not depicted well in the movie but the graphic Novel adaptation of TFA speaks to when Ren was trying to 'invade' Rey's mind and get the info he wanted....Rey was able to more or less 'download' a lot of Ren's training and enhanced control over his abilities in that moment....ultimately giving her a 'cheat sheet' of sorts to her Force powers.

See I appreciate all the fleshing out the novels apparently do to the lore of the universe. I just wish this trilogy would do the same. They keep adding new characters without fleshing any of them out. Snoke, anyone? Even if the long-running theory ends up being true that Palpatine somehow created Snoke, that doesn't add anything to Snoke's character or the threat he was supposed to embody in the first one-and-a-half films of this trilogy. I dunno, man. I could buy this stuff when I was 8, not when I'm 28.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 13, 2019, 12:27:31 PM
Another random (half-baked) thought about Luke vs Rey - One big difference between them is that the original trilogy had at least a handful of characters where Luke was clearly not the smartest guy in the room. Whether it was him and Obi-Wan, him and Yoda, maybe even him and Han... It was clear that Luke had a lot to learn. IIRC, Rey pretty much always seems like the adult in the room. Even when she was with Luke - whose arc I actually like - she was like "Get you act together dude". Maybe in Episode IX, we will see that change a bit with Leia.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 12:31:25 PM
Yes and no with Rey (@ TOX).  To me, she comes across as a complex mix of seasoned and green/mature for her years, yet lacking the maturity of age/street smart, yet naive.  And that makes sense, given her upbringing.  On one hand, she had to grow up and just deal with a lot in just surviving on her own.  On the other hand, she is young, and does not have a lot of "normal" life experience.  YMMV, but it works just fine for me.

But (more @Katt) I don't find simply evoking tropes like "Mary Sue" to be conducive to discussion.  It is just dismissive, and ultimately, pretty meaningless.  If you don't find her character interesting, fine.  But it's kind of silly to say there is "zero" character depth there.  There's plenty.  It's just that what is there doesn't resonate with you on any level. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 13, 2019, 12:37:15 PM
Thanks for the reply, Bosk and others. I've enjoyed this conversation! I definitely enjoy Rey as a character - in large part because Daisy Ridley is awesome - and can't wait to see what happens with her next week. :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 13, 2019, 12:44:34 PM
Stupid point, sorry.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 12:45:02 PM
But (more @Katt) I don't find simply evoking tropes like "Mary Sue" to be conducive to discussion.  It is just dismissive, and ultimately, pretty meaningless.  If you don't find her character interesting, fine.  But it's kind of silly to say there is "zero" character depth there.  There's plenty.  It's just that what is there doesn't resonate with you on any level.

But it's a real literary term, and it applies, so I'll continue to use it. It is anything but meaningless. What are Rey's weaknesses? Does she have any? What's her purpose besides (as gmd said himself) serving as someone through which the Force can awaken to take down the big bad guys? This is the definition of a Mary Sue. I disagree with your assessment that it is 'silly' to say there is 'zero' character depth there, because I've laid out what I think is a valid argument why there is none. Two films in and I barely know anything about the woman, FFS.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 01:09:21 PM
OK.

Anyone else care to discuss?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 01:10:34 PM
That's it? You call my argument silly and I give you an actual substantive response and you just say, "OK, anyone else?" That's kind of rude. I asked three questions right there you could have answered so we could discuss this. I'm not here to bludgeon my viewpoints into someone's brain, I'm here to talk.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 01:13:30 PM
:lol  You need to relax, dude.  Not trying to be rude.  But as I said, I just don't have anything to respond to in dialog framed that way.  You responded by saying that that is how you want to continue framing it.  So, ok, nothing more to respond to.  Cool?

But I AM interested in continuing to discuss the points that were brought up earlier, hence my clarification that I am still engaged on those topics.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 01:16:26 PM
There's three questions right there you could respond to...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 01:24:59 PM
OK, well still TRYING to be clear without being rude, but to be clear:  That isn't a discussion I'm interested in having.  That's not a personal shot. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2019, 01:34:04 PM
What are Rey's weaknesses? Does she have any?

I think one thing would be that due to her self sufficient upbringing she's more or less a loner and doesn't seek or appreciate others trying to help. She's determined to 'do it all'. This inexperience with dealing with other people led to her trusting Kylo Ren in an instance when she could have been more aware of his motives. He preyed on her desire to 'know' who her parents were/are.


What's her purpose besides (as gmd said himself) serving as someone through which the Force can awaken to take down the big bad guys?

There's nothing wrong with that being her 'purpose'. Without knowing what EP 9 has in store.....it's perfectly acceptable for her to represent the missing yang to the dark sides yen. If at the end of it all it's still not clarified as to 'why' she is this missing piece after it's all out there....then you can start throwing stones at the story but right now in the scheme of all of the SW movies....there's no reason to have 'needed' more of an explanation as none of these movies go into great detail as to why things are the way they are. Why were Anakin's midocholorins so high? Why did Yoda run off instead of climbing back up the Senate chamber and continuing his fight with Palpatine? Why did Luke claim himself to be a Jedi Knight to Jabba in ROTJ when he hadn't been back to complete his training with yoda yet? Tons of crap in this saga makes little sense. It's just a fun series....where....the characters are the way they are just because.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 01:47:52 PM
Thanks, Gary. Allow me to reply in full later but the reason it's bad imo is because "the chosen one" is a tired concept and especially played out for Star Wars since we already have gone through "the chosen one." I want a meaningful back story that doesn't rely on such a beaten horse of a cliche.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 13, 2019, 01:54:17 PM
There's nothing wrong with that being her 'purpose'. Without knowing what EP 9 has in store.....it's perfectly acceptable for her to represent the missing yang to the dark sides yen. If at the end of it all it's still not clarified as to 'why' she is this missing piece after it's all out there....then you can start throwing stones at the story but right now in the scheme of all of the SW movies....there's no reason to have 'needed' more of an explanation as none of these movies go into great detail as to why things are the way they are. Why were Anakin's midocholorins so high? Why did Yoda run off instead of climbing back up the Senate chamber and continuing his fight with Palpatine? Why did Luke claim himself to be a Jedi Knight to Jabba in ROTJ when he hadn't been back to complete his training with yoda yet? Tons of crap in this saga makes little sense. It's just a fun series....where....the characters are the way they are just because.

I like that you brought up the yin and the yang. I'm probably overthinking it - because as we know, this trilogy wasn't exactly planned out from the start - but there does seem to be a recurring pattern of character couplets where two people need to go through an arc together. Rey + Kylo is obviously the one that dominates the trilogy, but Finn + Poe, Finn + Rose, Poe + Leia, and even Luke + Rey are other combos that are pretty important. I actually like that quite a bit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2019, 01:56:46 PM
Thanks, Gary. Allow me to reply in full later but the reason it's bad imo is because "the chosen one" is a tired concept and especially played out for Star Wars since we already have gone through "the chosen one." I want a meaningful back story that doesn't rely on such a beaten horse of a cliche.

I'm still not convinced that she won't tie into Anakin somehow.....ultimately bringing that underlying 'chosen one' narrative to it's conclusion.

I don't disagree that 'the chosen one' in general is just over played and and 'easy' thing to say/do in movies. SW in particular is 'chosen one' heavy.....but it's still the same story....meaning while we're continually reminded of it and it seems tired and boring......the story hasn't ended so 'if' they can tie Rey to Anakin/Anakin's story her being the chosen one is essentially because he is the chosen one.

I don't F'n know  :lol


I do know I'm personally excited and pumped to see Ep. 9 and have enjoyed both TFA and TLJ....unless this is an utter trainwreck I can't imagine I'll be too disappointed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 02:04:22 PM
Well, the idea of a/the "chosen one" is important to this storyline, so it's to be expected that that concept would play out in this trilogy.  It's pretty integral to the themes and plot of the whole thing.  I mean, it's kind of like "cosmic McGuffins" in the first four phases of the MCU--yeah, one could say that is played out after 20-something films.  And if you feel that way, you feel that way.  :tup  But no use complaining about it, because that's what they are trying to do.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2019, 02:12:10 PM
Well, the idea of a/the "chosen one" is important to this storyline, so it's to be expected that that concept would play out in this trilogy.  It's pretty integral to the themes and plot of the whole thing.  I mean, it's kind of like "cosmic McGuffins" in the first four phases of the MCU--yeah, one could say that is played out after 20-something films.  And if you feel that way, you feel that way.  :tup  But no use complaining about it, because that's what they are trying to do.

Yep. That's why it really doesn't bother me.



during our re-watch of all the movies (we have TFA and TLJ left to watch before next Thursday) it became pretty clear to me that the OT over the 30 plus years prior to this recent trilogy has been significantly deified by the SW fan base. They're good....fun movies.....but if you watch those three films you can nit pick the living daylights out of them. But I don't. I enjoy them for what they are. But the SW fan base has raised them to a level that I won't say they don't 'deserve' to be on because they were a massive cultural deal.....but to criticize TFA and TLJ the way a portion of the fan base has and then that same portion outright ignore the massive faults in the OT is simply dishonest.

Even without seeing EP. 9 yet I'd wager that TFA, TLJ and TROS are superior overall 'movies'.....but I will doubt that they impact the culture and fandom the way the OT did. that was the right time/place and a perfect storm.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 02:18:48 PM
Yeah, I agree.  And if people are bothered by the flaws, that's fine.  I mean, I am to an extent, which is what part of my episode-by-episode critiques is about (and I really need to do Ep. III).  But I don't understand the compelling need of some (this isn't aimed at Katt or anyone here, to be clear) to try to compel "me" to be bothered by the things that bother them. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 13, 2019, 02:24:46 PM
You can feel what you want about the 'chosen one' setup but it's kinda a recurring thing in Star Wars by now. You could argue Luke in the OT and Anakin in the prequels both were written a bit as the classic hero who was meant for great things (though we knew Anakin would fall) and Rey kinda follows in these steps as well. To quote George himself, "it's like poetry, it rhymes".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 02:27:46 PM
I disagree. In a universe with so much lore and so much rich story ripe for the picking, we shouldn't be settling for that. Just my two cents. Look, I'm clearly in the minority, so I'll just be quiet for now. But I KNOW there is a good chunk of the fanbase that agrees with me. So I'm gonna take my lightsaber and go home  :lol :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 13, 2019, 02:32:26 PM
I disagree. In a universe with so much lore and so much rich story ripe for the picking, we shouldn't be settling for that. Just my two cents. Look, I'm clearly in the minority, so I'll just be quiet for now. But I KNOW there is a good chunk of the fanbase that agrees with me. So I'm gonna take my lightsaber and go home  :lol :biggrin:

It's a formula they want to stick to for the main episodes and I get that. You always have the separate movies for other types of stories. Same with Mandalorian. :P Personally I wouldn't mind some variety from the formula either but Disney knows what appeals to the widest range of people and that's what brings in the bucks.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 02:34:02 PM
I disagree. In a universe with so much lore and so much rich story ripe for the picking, we shouldn't be settling for that. Just my two cents. Look, I'm clearly in the minority, so I'll just be quiet for now. But I KNOW there is a good chunk of the fanbase that agrees with me. So I'm gonna take my lightsaber and go home  :lol :biggrin:

I'm partially with you and partially not, and here's what I mean by that:  With regard to the Skywalker saga, I say that you are "wrong" because that is an essential theme that has been present and is to come to a conclusion with Ep. IX (although, given the existence of the force, and the lore about how the force works, it would not be unexpected for that to resurface).  It's going to be there because it's intended to be there.

But as far as the expanded universe, they are dealing with that.  Rogue One didn't really have any hint of that (notwithstanding filling in a factual narrative that directly related to the occurrences in the Skywalker saga, AND having Vader appear).  Same with The Mandalorian.  It looks like there absolutely will be more content that goes a different direction and takes advantage of the vastness of the SW universe and lore. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 02:35:36 PM
Look, I got it. I'm complaining about why the water is only up to my knees when I'm sitting in the shallow end of the pool. I'm just expressing my frustrations. Sorry y'all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 02:48:10 PM
No need to apologize.  Just...don't pee in the pool.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 02:48:33 PM
No worries. It's not pee. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 13, 2019, 07:28:18 PM
Now on to the original trilogy.
And by OT I mean the despecialized versions of the original trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 14, 2019, 12:42:42 PM
Watched Rogue One last night as part of my big rewatch.

You know? I really really like this movie. If I recall correctly, this one wasn't too well received for a variety of reasons, but I love it. And I like it with or without the big Vader scene. The characters are very different than any other Star Wars movie, the plot is different, but it feels clearly in universe. This is the cost of the resistance. Instead of being portrayed as the altruistic 100% good guys as they have been, we see the price of standing up to the evil of the Empire, and I enjoy giving the rebellion that kind of depth. Even the good guys sometimes need to do bad things in these kinds of situations. I thought the character arcs, be they short, were well done and I liked the chemistry with everyone.

Only a few things in this movie that I didn't care for.

1) First 5 minutes or so had a LOT of different planets very quickly, just felt odd.
2) The dudes from the bar showing up on Jedha was pointless and dumb
3) 3PO and R2 didn't need to be there.
4) Don't choke on your aspirations is still a dumb as hell line.

The Tarkin and Leia stuff didn't bother me. I know they were CGI, but they were good enough that it didn't take me out of the story. I loved that all of the characters died at the end and that the final battle wasn't for the fate of the galaxy but a single (though important) part of a much bigger plan.

So yea, I think this might be my 3rd fav Star Wars movie after Empire and A New Hope.



Will write one up for A New Hope a big later, since I just watched that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on December 14, 2019, 03:26:24 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/7Y4Stvx/ELxe5yr-UEAEr-BXv.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HFdKT7L)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on December 15, 2019, 03:25:53 PM
Thanks, Gary. Allow me to reply in full later but the reason it's bad imo is because "the chosen one" is a tired concept and especially played out for Star Wars since we already have gone through "the chosen one." I want a meaningful back story that doesn't rely on such a beaten horse of a cliche.

The whole "chosen one" thing pisses me off and annoys the living shit out of me, even more so when people talk about it like it's a real thing. What a weak excuse for a story line let alone to believe that it makes sense because there is a chosen one. If you believe in the chosen one, you are a stool sample.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on December 15, 2019, 03:37:05 PM
Now on to the original trilogy.
And by OT I mean the despecialized versions of the original trilogy.

Any other way ensures the failure is now complete
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 15, 2019, 05:07:48 PM
Thanks, Gary. Allow me to reply in full later but the reason it's bad imo is because "the chosen one" is a tired concept and especially played out for Star Wars since we already have gone through "the chosen one." I want a meaningful back story that doesn't rely on such a beaten horse of a cliche.

The whole "chosen one" thing pisses me off and annoys the living shit out of me, even more so when people talk about it like it's a real thing. What a weak excuse for a story line let alone to believe that it makes sense because there is a chosen one. If you believe in the chosen one, you are a stool sample.

 :(    So many ways to reply to this post but I’ll stick with the emoji
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 16, 2019, 02:51:52 AM
Watched Rogue One last night as part of my big rewatch.

You know? I really really like this movie. If I recall correctly, this one wasn't too well received for a variety of reasons, but I love it. And I like it with or without the big Vader scene. The characters are very different than any other Star Wars movie, the plot is different, but it feels clearly in universe. This is the cost of the resistance. Instead of being portrayed as the altruistic 100% good guys as they have been, we see the price of standing up to the evil of the Empire, and I enjoy giving the rebellion that kind of depth. Even the good guys sometimes need to do bad things in these kinds of situations. I thought the character arcs, be they short, were well done and I liked the chemistry with everyone.

...

I watched Rogue One at the weekend there, and I totally agree with your post above.. I hadn't seen it in a while, maybe over a year, and it struck me that for me it's been the best of the new batch of films. It feels closest in tone to what I think Star Wars should be (whatever that is). It's not perfect, for sure, especially the beginning, where it's all over the place, but the second half of it is great. There's a real sense of urgency and desperation when they realise that this has effectively become a suicide mission. Even the humour, which is normally the thing that will take me straight out of the movie, was well placed.

Only a few things in this movie that I didn't care for.

1) First 5 minutes or so had a LOT of different planets very quickly, just felt odd.
2) The dudes from the bar showing up on Jedha was pointless and dumb
3) 3PO and R2 didn't need to be there.
4) Don't choke on your aspirations is still a dumb as hell line.

To this, I'd add the blind octopus-like mind reading monster, that tests the pilot to see if he's lying. That was a bit silly, but at least it was brief.

On CGI Tarkin/Leia, I think Tarkin was well done, and about 90% convincing. With Leia though, it kinda fell apart when she spoke. The mouth just looked wrong. If they had've just had her turn away from the camera, or done something a bit more subtle, it would have worked a lot better IMO.


My expectations for The Rise Of Skywalker are firmly grounded this time around. This is so weird for me - with the other movies I would have been all over the Star Wars news sites like a rash, checking for tidbits of news every day. Probably spoiling it for myself, to be honest. With this one, I've seen the trailer and that's about it. I haven't been looking for fan theories or spoilers or trying to second guess what's likely to happen. Maybe that's for the best.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 16, 2019, 07:34:28 AM
Watched A New Hope and Empire over the weekend.

Honestly? Not a whole lot to say since everything has already been said, but these two movies are pretty great and definitely my top 2.


As far as the touched up versions, eh. The scene with Jabba in A New Hope is dumb. As is Greedo shooting first and now apparently calling for Macaulay Culkin immediately before hand. Beyond that? A bit unnecessary at times, but nothing too distracting for the most part..........oh, except for Obi-Wan's yell at the Tuscan Raiders. Eesh.

Empire though? I mean, I am 100% fine with all of the changes they made to that one. Most of it is just improving the visuals.

If I remember correctly though, and I'm sure I'll see it tonight, Jedi is the one that suffered most from the new versions.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 16, 2019, 07:42:35 AM
Thanks, Gary. Allow me to reply in full later but the reason it's bad imo is because "the chosen one" is a tired concept and especially played out for Star Wars since we already have gone through "the chosen one." I want a meaningful back story that doesn't rely on such a beaten horse of a cliche.

The whole "chosen one" thing pisses me off and annoys the living shit out of me, even more so when people talk about it like it's a real thing. What a weak excuse for a story line let alone to believe that it makes sense because there is a chosen one. If you believe in the chosen one, you are a stool sample.
"You were the Chosen One!"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 16, 2019, 08:45:30 AM
Finished my re-watch yesterday and am also caught up with The Mandalorian. In addition I'm also half way through season 5 of my re-watch of Clone Wars with my daughters and will move onto Rebels and Resistance upon compilation. I'm also playing the hell out of Star Wars pin ball on the Switch (Amazing) and will be getting Fallen Order for Christmas as well as will be playing the VR Star Wars game shortly. I don't recall there being a better time to be a Star Wars fan. Can't wait until Thursday!

My current film ranking based on the most recent re-watch (I didn't include Solo):

1. The Force Awakens
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. The Last Jedi
4. Empire Strikes Back
5. Rogue One
6. A New Hope
7. Return of the Jedi
8. Attack of the Clones
9. The Phantom Menace

I'm sure my list is unique and most will disagree and I have no interest in debating my list.  ;) I'll revisit after Thursday.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on December 16, 2019, 09:01:44 AM
What the hell, a pre-episode IX list:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. Rogue One
3. Star Wars (A New Hope)
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Force Awakens
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. The Last Jedi
8. Solo
9. Attack of the Clones
10. Phantom Menace
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 16, 2019, 09:07:43 AM
I think this is my ranking at the moment.....

1. The Last Jedi
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. The Force Awakens
4. Rogue One
5. Return of the Jedi
6. A New Hope
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. Solo
9. Attack of the Clones
10. The Phantom Menace
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 16, 2019, 09:10:54 AM
We're doing rankings? Eh. I'll do it, but it might change with my rewatch of VII and VIII.

But as of now...

1. Empire
2. New Hope
3. Rogue One
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Force Awakens
6. Last Jedi
7. Phantom Menace
8. Revenge of the Sith
9. Attack of the Clones

Not even putting Solo on there.

Though I'm not sure how much my rewatch will impact this. I really didn't care for 80% of Last Jedi, but I just can't see it getting into prequel territory.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 16, 2019, 09:22:01 AM
Will have to think about my ranking.

Got done with the OT despecialized editions. I have to say the editing in all three of these movies are something else. The intercuts with all the different story lines make them all a very compelling watch.

I think ROTJ would rank equal if not better than Empire if they had used the Wookies as originally intended, not that I have an issue with the Ewoks. I know they are meant to appeal to children but the Gungans were far more annoying than anything in the movies. The Ewok usage wan't nearly as jarring as some of the kid stuff in the prequels. For god's sake you see of them dying and the other Ewoks crying and grieving.

I can't wait to rewatch episode 7 & 8. These new movies rekindled my passion for Star Wars and agree with kaos that it's an amazing time to be a Star Wars fan.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 16, 2019, 09:22:35 AM
When my daughter comes home tomorrow, we're going to start a watch-through.  Neither of us are going to make the opening nice of "Rise..." so it's kind of our way to stay involved.

I'm going to post my list as I remember them, then I'll update them (if necessary) when I'm done rewatching:

1. A New Hope (As one part of a nine part saga it has flaws/problems, but it was transcendent to this 10 year old.)
2. The Empire Strikes Back (Probably my favorite film, but second because of the impact the first one had.)
3. Rogue One (Better than I expected; I really liked this.)
4. Revenge Of The Sith (not as bad as some claim, IMO)
5. The Force Awakens (I've only seen it once; I need to see it again to really digest it, so middle of the pack for now)
6. The Return Of The Jedi  (Ewoks, man.  Friggin' ewoks.)
7. Attack Of The Clones (a victim of numbers.  Not as bad as APM, but I can't in good conscience put it above TROTJ or TFA)
8. A Phantom Menace (every bit as bad as some claim, IMO.  It's a cardinal sin for Star Wars: BORING.)

Haven't yet seen "The Last Jedi" or "Solo".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 16, 2019, 09:45:05 AM
Watched The Last Jedi last night for the first time since I saw it in theater.  If anything, I like it even less than I did originally.  There's just SOOOO much wrong with it... I could over-look one, two, hell even four or five flaws, but there are a dozen+  It's just not a good movie.  At all.  Not going to bother re-listing everything, as it's a dead horse I don't feel needs any flogging.

I'm firmly on team "It Sucks".  So much that I might even rank it below TPM and possibly AotC.  I and II have lower 'lows', but they also have higher 'highs'.  TLJ is just consistently dreadful from start to finish (imo).  At least you can skip thru the bad parts in I and II.  If I were to do that with TLJ, then I'd only end up watching about 17 minutes of a 2.5 hour movie.  One thing I can't hold back is Holdo - she's fucking incompetent.  First, SHE creates the mutiny by not disclosing the plan to her officers  Just tell 'fly-boy' "we're heading to this planet for these reasons, and we have enough fuel to get there". Why the secrecy?  Second, good job letting a dozen or so transport ships get obliterated before deciding to do anything about it.  Now, the Galactic Resistance couldn't even dress an NFL starting lineup.  God that character bugs me - and there was NO REASON IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN AKBAR to do that deed.

Rogue One on the other hand... it's in my Top 3 for sure.  Probably Top 2.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 16, 2019, 09:52:16 AM
Continuing on with my episode reviews...

Ep. III - Revenge of the Sith:  This is the one to resolve the plot of the PT and show us Anakin's final turn.  It partially succeeded and partially failed.  As with the rest of the PT, this is a story that had really good bones, but where it failed, it failed in the execution and details.  I'm not going to say it was a bad movie, because it was enjoyable.  But the potential was there for it to be better, and it just missed, despite having a lot there to work with and the promise of delivering something truly special.

Three things that worked:
-1.  Sidious/Palpatine.  At least, for the first half of the film.  I fall right in line with others who feel that the opera house scene is one of the best single scenes in the entire PT. 
-2.  The falling ship.  This was taken right out of the Dark Forces II game (with some details modified to fit the different plot and characters), and it totally worked.  Absent to silly R2 hijinx, this entire opening was so much fun.
-3.  Order 66:  *glances at watch*  "It's getting kinda late in the film.  I wonder how they're going to deal with setting up all the Jedi being killed off.  They can't possibly deal with something so huge now with so little screen time left.  I mean, Lucas couldn't possibly...   :o  Okay, wow, that was kinda dope!"

Three things that didn't
-1.  Anakin's turning.  The seeds were certainly there.  But...I dunno.  For as extreme a turn as he took, the final push just didn't feel genuine.  I was told and shown all the reasons for the conflict building in Anakin.  But I didn't feel it.  And for Anakin to go so far as to buy into exterminating the Jedi, including killing kids, there needed to be more.  That chamber scene where Mace Windu showed up to challenge Palpatine needed to have something more to it for Anakin to see the Jedi as truly evil and worthy of being exterminated.  That scene didn't have it.
-2.  Yoda:  "Hmm...couldn't defeat Palpatine 1-on-1.  Best just go into exile, possibly forever."  :orly:
-3.  Padme's death, and the birth of Luke and Leia.  We don't know exactly why she really died, and it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Honestly, it all basically comes down to Anakin's turn.  It just didn't have the emotional impact it should have.  Lucas just needed a bit more setup to show Anakin truly being manipulated and being convinced that the Jedi truly were evil.  We didn't quite get that, so his protestations about the Jedi being evil "from a certain point of view" just didn't ring true.  And while I sympathized with the Padme angle, the problems with how their relationship was handled in the first two films kept me from completely buying into that as well.  This is why fixing that aspect in the first two films was super important to me.  So my "minor tweaks" boil down to:  (1) Fix the setup with the Anakin/Padme dynamic in the first two films, because even though the relationship works MUCH better in this film, there is unresolved "emotional baggage" lingering around; (2) Do a bit more to make it appear to Anakin that Windu and the Jedi are truly up to no good and are going to plunge the galaxy into horror if not stopped at any cost so that his turn to Vader is more convincing; (3) This may cross over into "major tweak," but Padme's death and the twins' birth needed to be completely re-done.  But this could tie into #2.  This is only one possible suggestion for Act 3 of the film, but it maybe fixes both problems considerably.  So something along these lines:  The Jedi Council learns that Padme is going to have a child who has the potential to join this unknown Sith Lord and tip the scales toward darkness (which was sort of what Palpatine reveals to be what he believes to be Luke's destiny in ROTJ). They decide to take drastic measures, unbeknownst to Anakin and Obi-Wan, and they convince Padme to leave him and go off and have the children in secret. Palpatine, in turn, uses this to manipulate Anakin and convince him that the Jedi are out to destroy everything Anakin loves and to corrupt everything, which in turn causes Anakin to flip out.  He rightly thinks Obi-Wan is involved, and that Padme was also in on it, which then makes is flipping out at both of them when they come to Mustafar to try to turn him back more justified.  And all the way through this, Anakin is lied to about the children.  Palpatine tells him the Jedi taking Padme away caused the child to die before being born.  When Padme goes back to Anakin, she maybe tells him the child died, because she fears him and his motivations, and is protecting the kids.  He doesn't know that there were twins, and that they have been born and are in hiding already.  This makes him killing Padme less messy, and raises the stakes considerably in his final duel with Obi-Wan, where he truly believes Obi-Wan was in on the conspiracy to take away everything from him.  He would truly have a reason for the "hate" that would turn him to the dark side, even if we the audience knew all along that the reason was false and that he was being manipulated and lied to.  In short, it would cover a lot of the flaws in Act 3.  Heck, it would even make the "NOOOOOO!!!" a bit more palatable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 16, 2019, 10:00:59 AM
Watched The Last Jedi last night for the first time since I saw it in theater.  If anything, I like it even less than I did originally.  There's just SOOOO much wrong with it... I could over-look one, two, hell even four or five flaws, but there are a dozen+  It's just not a good movie.  At all.  Not going to bother re-listing everything, as it's a dead horse I don't feel needs any flogging.

I'm firmly on team "It Sucks".  So much that I might even rank it below TPM and possibly AotC.  I and II have lower 'lows', but they also have higher 'highs'.  TLJ is just consistently dreadful from start to finish (imo).  At least you can skip thru the bad parts in I and II.  If I were to do that with TLJ, then I'd only end up watching about 17 minutes of a 2.5 hour movie.  One thing I can't hold back is Holdo - she's fucking incompetent.  First, SHE creates the mutiny by not disclosing the plan to her officers  Just tell 'fly-boy' "we're heading to this planet for these reasons, and we have enough fuel to get there". Why the secrecy?  Second, good job letting a dozen or so transport ships get obliterated before deciding to do anything about it.  Now, the Galactic Resistance couldn't even dress an NFL starting lineup.  God that character bugs me - and there was NO REASON IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN AKBAR to do that deed.

It’s amazing how this movie is either loved or hated with no in between.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 16, 2019, 10:04:07 AM
I don't love or hate it. I just don't like it.

I think the most annoying thing about TLJ is that it EASILY could have been great. There were some truly great ideas in that movie that either weren't executed well at all, or were bogged down in a bunch of other crap. So much of that story feels like it's 3 different movies dropped on a floor, and put together into one movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 16, 2019, 10:05:59 AM
One thing I can't hold back is Holdo - she's fucking incompetent.  First, SHE creates the mutiny by not disclosing the plan to her officers  Just tell 'fly-boy' "we're heading to this planet for these reasons, and we have enough fuel to get there". Why the secrecy?

I had very little problem with her.  She acted pretty much how one would expect a military commander in her position to act.  When the stakes are high and the mission depends on total secrecy, no military commander reveals the details of the secret plan to underlings who are not deemed to have a VERY strong "need to know."  That is especially true when one discovers the enemy is able to track you in ways you didn't know possible, and you don't know what other information the enemy has access to.  And that is also especially true when you don't know which underlings can be trusted during a crucial time when it appears there could be information leaks.  And that is also especially true in the specific case of an underling who has just demonstrated a disregard for following orders that has just caused multiple unnecessary deaths and depleted your fleet of a vital resources (all of its bombers).  From a military perspective, she absolutely made the right call.  I get that people want her to have made a different decision.  But, honestly, while it is easy to see that that would have avoided some of the problems that unfolded in the film, it's just not what would happen in any military or paramilitary organization.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 16, 2019, 11:05:53 AM
One thing I can't hold back is Holdo - she's fucking incompetent.  First, SHE creates the mutiny by not disclosing the plan to her officers  Just tell 'fly-boy' "we're heading to this planet for these reasons, and we have enough fuel to get there". Why the secrecy?

I had very little problem with her.  She acted pretty much how one would expect a military commander in her position to act.  When the stakes are high and the mission depends on total secrecy, no military commander reveals the details of the secret plan to underlings who are not deemed to have a VERY strong "need to know."  That is especially true when one discovers the enemy is able to track you in ways you didn't know possible, and you don't know what other information the enemy has access to.  And that is also especially true when you don't know which underlings can be trusted during a crucial time when it appears there could be information leaks.  And that is also especially true in the specific case of an underling who has just demonstrated a disregard for following orders that has just caused multiple unnecessary deaths and depleted your fleet of a vital resources (all of its bombers).  From a military perspective, she absolutely made the right call.  I get that people want her to have made a different decision.  But, honestly, while it is easy to see that that would have avoided some of the problems that unfolded in the film, it's just not what would happen in any military or paramilitary organization.
That's exactly why I had no problem with her.

For me, TLJ ranks second only to Empire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 16, 2019, 11:12:26 AM
Why did it depend on total absolute secrecy?

And I don't know if I'm right or now, but I don't think Poe was just some random underling. Nor do I think they were relying on very traditional military structure. They just didn't tell him, even when they knew not doing so would cause problems.

Look at the other big plans in the Star Wars movies. None of them were done in total secrecy. Everyone knew the plans.

So was it completely unrealistic? Of course not. Did it feel unnecessary and annoying? Yes, to me at least.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on December 16, 2019, 11:14:01 AM
My ranking:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Return Of The Jedi
4. Revenge Of The Sith
5. Rogue One
6. The Force Awakens
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Attack Of The Clones
9. Solo










10. The Last Jedi
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 16, 2019, 11:27:58 AM
What the hell, a pre-episode IX list:

Sure...why not?

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2a. A New Hope
2b. The Last Jedi (there are days when I might rank TLJ ahead of ANH)

3. Rogue One

4. Return of the Jedi (ROTJ, TFA and ROTS are nearly interchangeable)
5. The Force Awakens
6. Revenge of the Sith

7. The Phantom Menace
8. Solo
9. Attack of the Clones



10. The Clone Wars (this barely counts, but it was an official theatrical release, so...)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 16, 2019, 11:46:00 AM
Why not, since everybody else will also be doing it. BTW i might be going in to a screening of TROS day after tomorrow, when it premieres in my region!! I will provide my spoiler free reactions after the screening, if i'm able to go :tup

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi

5. The Last Jedi
6. Rogue One
7. Solo
8. Revenge of the Sith


9. The Phantom Menace

10. Attack of the Clones (Watched this recently and had to take pauses in order make it to the end.)

7 and 8 are pretty interchangeable in terms of my ranking.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 16, 2019, 11:50:02 AM
Why not. Least hated to most  ;) :lol Split up in tiers... haven't seen Solo. Don't remember finishing it, at least.

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. Return of the Jedi

3. The Force Awakens
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. A New Hope

6. The Phantom Menace
7. Rogue One

8. The Last Jedi
9. Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 16, 2019, 12:14:45 PM
Also, what is the plan with spoilers?

Is it just free reign starting Thursday (or earlier for some)? Or should we stick to small font/spoiler warnings for some period of time?

I just need to know if/when to avoid this thread (and basically all of the internet) between now and Saturday.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on December 16, 2019, 12:23:51 PM
I just watched The Force Awakens on Saturday night. Poe was CERTAINLY more than some underling. But if I recall correctly, doesn't The Last Jedi mention early on that he has been slapped on the wrist for doing stupid things a few times. That would also be a plausible explanation on why he wasn't told things. He was demoted as well, I believe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 16, 2019, 12:25:41 PM
Also, what is the plan with spoilers?

Is it just free reign starting Thursday (or earlier for some)? Or should we stick to small font/spoiler warnings for some period of time?

I just need to know if/when to avoid this thread (and basically all of the internet) between now and Saturday.

I'm planning to avoid this thread after Wednesday morning until Saturday.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 16, 2019, 12:30:05 PM
Why did it depend on total absolute secrecy?

And I don't know if I'm right or now, but I don't think Poe was just some random underling. Nor do I think they were relying on very traditional military structure. They just didn't tell him, even when they knew not doing so would cause problems.

Look at the other big plans in the Star Wars movies. None of them were done in total secrecy. Everyone knew the plans.

So was it completely unrealistic? Of course not. Did it feel unnecessary and annoying? Yes, to me at least.

All fair points Bosk, but I'm leaning towards Adami's response.  We're not watching a war documentary, it's Star Wars.  It made no sense for her to not reveal the plan.  I'd hardly call The Resistance a highly structured and hierarchical military organization.  If it was, wouldn't Leia have 'ordered' the bombers to disengage?  If none of the 'military leaders' believed in attacking the Dreadnaugh, then why didn't that whole attack squad get ordered to fall back?

I don't mean to argue the point, but it's kind of making my point ... there are just way too many little/medium things that make me roll my eyes FAR TOO MANY TIMES during this movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on December 16, 2019, 12:55:27 PM

I'm planning to avoid this thread after Wednesday morning until Saturday.

Ditto. We have tickets to an early a.m. showing on Saturday. I am not going on social media, or this thread, until after that, starting Thursday morning.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 16, 2019, 01:12:01 PM
No spoilers prior to release, please.  After release, please keep all spoilers in tiny font for at least a couple of weeks, as we usually do in these situations.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 16, 2019, 05:39:55 PM
Just did the re-watch of TFA. I'm sorry.....but, I can't get on board with any of the criticism of that movie. It's a great SW movie. It'd probably been a good year or so since I'd seen it and it was really fun to watch again. I think Abrams did a fantastic job of re-engaging the SW community. Yes there are similarities with ANH but IMO he HAD to have those in order to keep the 'original' fans engaged and he threw in enough to hook the new crowd.

SW fans are 100X worse than DT fans when it comes to the output not matching what 'they' envision that it 'should' be......and I think the criticism TFA and TLJ gets is in large part due to those movies not matching some preconceived idea of what 'we' think it should be.

After this re-watch I am PUMPED to see TROS on Thursday night.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 16, 2019, 05:59:30 PM
TFA was a very good movie, despite the 'rhyme' to ANH.  I hear what you're saying about expectations and all, but I personally had no preconceptions or expectations or desires of what I wanted it to be of what I thought it should be.  All I wanted was to be entertained.  I thought the 'rhyme' to ESB was lazy and didn't really this trilogy relying on the OT formula*, but could've got past it / accepted it if there wasn't soooo much else wrong with it.

*Additionally, if RoS does not follow the RotJ framework, then why was there a need to rely on TFA and TLJ being reprises of ANH and ESB?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 16, 2019, 06:04:59 PM
I had no expectations for either of the new SW movies, other than being good.


I enjoyed TFA very much, but I didn't find it to be a good film as much as a good product. It lacked....heart...in my eyes. It felt like a very calculated film to hit all four quadrants and please as many people as possible. And it very much succeeded at that, so it was a total success. I just couldn't really connect with it beyond a superficial level of being entertained.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 16, 2019, 06:08:20 PM
^ As usual, you and I are on the same page.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 16, 2019, 06:09:26 PM
Speaking of following the same pattern as the other films, if ROS doesn't end with a huge Ewok celebration, possibly eating people this time, then I'm let down.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 16, 2019, 06:14:19 PM
Speaking of following the same pattern as the other films, if ROS doesn't end with a huge Ewok celebration, possibly eating people this time, then I'm let down.

Jub Jub!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 17, 2019, 06:55:53 AM
First reactions are mixed. Some loved it and some liked it but had issues. Doesn't sound like it's bad though. Bring it on!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 17, 2019, 08:15:15 AM
Just did the re-watch of TFA. I'm sorry.....but, I can't get on board with any of the criticism of that movie. It's a great SW movie. It'd probably been a good year or so since I'd seen it and it was really fun to watch again. I think Abrams did a fantastic job of re-engaging the SW community. Yes there are similarities with ANH but IMO he HAD to have those in order to keep the 'original' fans engaged and he threw in enough to hook the new crowd.

SW fans are 100X worse than DT fans when it comes to the output not matching what 'they' envision that it 'should' be......and I think the criticism TFA and TLJ gets is in large part due to those movies not matching some preconceived idea of what 'we' think it should be.

After this re-watch I am PUMPED to see TROS on Thursday night.

It's not a minor point that - to steal Jingle's excellent phrasing - at least they rhymed the right parts of ANH.   I'm not sure TFA was a great movie, I'm not sure it had intricate plot points (to be debated, I guess) but it captured some of the adventure and wonder that I felt when I was 10 watching ANH with my dad and brother in the theater.    I was okay with that, especially after what I thought was the tone-deaf pandering of TPM.  THAT rhymed all the WORST parts of the SW universe. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 17, 2019, 08:21:58 AM
First reactions are mixed. Some loved it and some liked it but had issues. Doesn't sound like it's bad though. Bring it on!

Managed to secure tickets for tomorrow! Less than 24 hours to my screening! :corn

I'm not going in with giant expectations. I just want a good movie and a fitting "end" to Star Wars!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 17, 2019, 08:47:05 AM
First reactions are mixed. Some loved it and some liked it but had issues. Doesn't sound like it's bad though. Bring it on!

I read a couple of articles about the first reactions, and there definitely appear to be some trends. For example, it sounds like a crap ton is going to happen in this movie. One dude described it as nine movies in one. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2019, 10:36:18 AM
I'm curious if something from Ep. 7 of 'The Mandalorian' may tie into TROS since they are releasing Ep. 7 tomorrow, a day before the movie comes out?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on December 17, 2019, 10:41:27 AM
I'm curious if something from Ep. 7 of 'The Mandalorian' may tie into TROS since they are releasing Ep. 7 tomorrow, a day before the movie comes out?

There will be a scene from the film after the credits, or something like that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2019, 10:50:41 AM
I'm curious if something from Ep. 7 of 'The Mandalorian' may tie into TROS since they are releasing Ep. 7 tomorrow, a day before the movie comes out?

There will be a scene from the film after the credits, or something like that.

It'd be hilarious to see 'Mando' assisting in an emergency birth of Rey  :lol 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 17, 2019, 10:55:13 AM
I hope after this film wraps, some people come around to understanding why I view this trilogy the way I do. All signs are pointing to me shaking my head and holding it in my hands for the back half of the film. But, anything can happen... Oh who am I kidding, I'm eagerly awaiting the storm of emotions that will roll over the Internet on opening night.  :corn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 17, 2019, 10:57:29 AM
I'm curious if something from Ep. 7 of 'The Mandalorian' may tie into TROS since they are releasing Ep. 7 tomorrow, a day before the movie comes out?

There will be a scene from the film after the credits, or something like that.

It'd be hilarious to see 'Mando' assisting in an emergency birth of Rey  :lol

The going theory is that there will be a connection. My prediction is something to do with clones...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2019, 11:06:52 AM
I'm curious if something from Ep. 7 of 'The Mandalorian' may tie into TROS since they are releasing Ep. 7 tomorrow, a day before the movie comes out?

There will be a scene from the film after the credits, or something like that.

It'd be hilarious to see 'Mando' assisting in an emergency birth of Rey  :lol

The going theory is that there will be a connection. My prediction is something to do with clones...

I mean.....with them making sure this episode airs the day before there HAS to be something that will cross over. I doubt it'll be something vital.....but certainly something noticeable enough to where you don't have to be a detective to figure it out but not significant enough to where if you don't connect it it won't impact the story in any way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 17, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
I hope after this film wraps, some people come around to understanding why I view this trilogy the way I do.
With hatred in your heart?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2019, 11:11:50 AM
I'm eagerly awaiting the storm of emotions that will roll over the Internet on opening night.  :corn

It'll probably be 10x worse than TLJ fallout. I just don't think there is anyway to please the SW fan base as a whole. I'm well documented as being fairly simple to please when it comes to these movies....meaning I've managed my expectations......but there is a contingent out there that seems to be very much part of the dark and thrives only on 'hating' this last trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 17, 2019, 11:27:09 AM
There definitely is. I want to be clear though I'm not one of those people. I have legitimate complaints and I like to explain them thoroughly. I will not be surprised if everybody here except me loves the movie and has no complaints. So I'll give the thread several days of breathing room before I chime in, I promise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2019, 11:39:14 AM
There definitely is. I want to be clear though I'm not one of those people. I have legitimate complaints and I like to explain them thoroughly. I will not be surprised if everybody here except me loves the movie and has no complaints. So I'll give the thread several days of breathing room before I chime in, I promise.

Yeah....to be clear I wasn't pointing at anyone in this thread in particular.....because, even when there is something that isn't cared for folks in here have good explanations as to 'why' they don't like it. My observation was an 'in general'....directed at the larger die hard SW community as a whole...they're just impossible to manage or please. 30 plus years of living and breathing everything SW.....these folks seem to have a certain belief as to how it should all go down...and dare I say a sense of entitlement I guess based off of their loyalty over the years as they digested everything SW.

Undoubtedly Ep. 9 is not going to be good enough for a chunk of the SW fan base. As for me....I'm pretty confident I'll be on board with how it all shakes out....unless it's just a massive cluster F. But I doubt I'll view it as such.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 17, 2019, 11:47:30 AM
Star Wars to me is sort of the...  Yardbirds of modern franchises.   Great in a lot of ways, but so many have come after and done it better, more thoroughly and more impressively that it's hard to keep it in perspective.   

Star Wars wasn't as intricate or detail oriented as the MCU or Game of Thrones.  The world wasn't as thought out as Tolkein via Jackson (I'm talking about the massive world that the movies have created, not the books).   The canon wasn't as disciplined as the Star Trek world.   I think it suffers in comparison.    George Lucas is not George RR Martin.   I think the franchise stutters when it's trying to be something it's not.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2019, 12:10:49 PM
Star Wars to me is sort of the...  Yardbirds of modern franchises.   Great in a lot of ways, but so many have come after and done it better, more thoroughly and more impressively that it's hard to keep it in perspective.   

Star Wars wasn't as intricate or detail oriented as the MCU or Game of Thrones.  The world wasn't as thought out as Tolkein via Jackson (I'm talking about the massive world that the movies have created, not the books).   The canon wasn't as disciplined as the Star Trek world.   I think it suffers in comparison.    George Lucas is not George RR Martin.   I think the franchise stutters when it's trying to be something it's not.   

good point(s) but the OT was the turning point IMO.....it was the 'inspiration' that led to all those that you listed. Sure, some of that material has been around longer than SW has....but Lucas and Co. demonstrated how to create a successful franchise.

It's kind of how I view the Beatles musically. I'm not overly impressed by their music......(keeps an eye out for assassins now) but there's no denying they inspired near all the musicians and music that I enjoy today.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 17, 2019, 12:18:03 PM
Spoiler alert: Jar-Jar issa da big poo-poo Palpatine. Yousa neveren see it coming!

:neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 17, 2019, 12:18:34 PM
Star Wars to me is sort of the...  Yardbirds of modern franchises.   Great in a lot of ways, but so many have come after and done it better, more thoroughly and more impressively that it's hard to keep it in perspective.   

Star Wars wasn't as intricate or detail oriented as the MCU or Game of Thrones.  The world wasn't as thought out as Tolkein via Jackson (I'm talking about the massive world that the movies have created, not the books).   The canon wasn't as disciplined as the Star Trek world.   I think it suffers in comparison.    George Lucas is not George RR Martin.   I think the franchise stutters when it's trying to be something it's not.   

good point(s) but the OT was the turning point IMO.....it was the 'inspiration' that led to all those that you listed. Sure, some of that material has been around longer than SW has....but Lucas and Co. demonstrated how to create a successful franchise.

It's kind of how I view the Beatles musically. I'm not overly impressed by their music......(keeps an eye out for assassins now) but there's no denying they inspired near all the musicians and music that I enjoy today.

HAHAHA, I actually had the Beatles in there and deleted in favor of the Yardbirds.  I felt I was betraying the cause (I'm a huge Beatles fan).   :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 17, 2019, 02:20:42 PM
There definitely is. I want to be clear though I'm not one of those people. I have legitimate complaints and I like to explain them thoroughly. I will not be surprised if everybody here except me loves the movie and has no complaints. So I'll give the thread several days of breathing room before I chime in, I promise.

Yeah....to be clear I wasn't pointing at anyone in this thread in particular.....because, even when there is something that isn't cared for folks in here have good explanations as to 'why' they don't like it. My observation was an 'in general'....directed at the larger die hard SW community as a whole...they're just impossible to manage or please. 30 plus years of living and breathing everything SW.....these folks seem to have a certain belief as to how it should all go down...and dare I say a sense of entitlement I guess based off of their loyalty over the years as they digested everything SW.

Undoubtedly Ep. 9 is not going to be good enough for a chunk of the SW fan base. As for me....I'm pretty confident I'll be on board with how it all shakes out....unless it's just a massive cluster F. But I doubt I'll view it as such.

The fan base right now appears to be taking the "pissed off customer" approach, where not only will they voice their displeasure, but they will probably review bomb the living hell out of the movie too in an effort to make a point. I think that some people just want to watch the world burn, but I also think that some people genuinely think this is the best way to force Disney into making better movies. In my opinion, it's a risky proposition. Maybe they succeed in getting someone like Jon Favreau to steer the franchise going forward, which would be great, but they could also end up discouraging a lot of talented people from ever touching Star Wars with a ten-foot pole. I guess only time will tell.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 17, 2019, 02:28:30 PM
Who cares?

The movie will make between 1 and 2 billion dollars. The movie is being made for the sole purpose of making that money. I highly doubt it's because anyone involved was passionately wanting to make a great Star Wars movie, other than possibly Rian Johnson who didn't quite succeed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 17, 2019, 02:32:38 PM
The movie will make between 1 and 2 billion dollars. The movie is being made for the sole purpose of making that money. I highly doubt it's because anyone involved was passionately wanting to make a great Star Wars movie, other than possibly Rian Johnson who didn't quite succeed.

This goes to the very core of my complaints with this new trilogy, and it's problematic on so many levels, and unfortunately Star Wars is not the only victim of this mentality. Sigh. And the fact that this film is guaranteed to make money hand over fist only adds to reasons why a studio shouldn't give a damn about taking risks in the next trilogy/series of films.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 17, 2019, 02:55:51 PM
The movie will make between 1 and 2 billion dollars. The movie is being made for the sole purpose of making that money. I highly doubt it's because anyone involved was passionately wanting to make a great Star Wars movie, other than possibly Rian Johnson who didn't quite succeed.

This goes to the very core of my complaints with this new trilogy, and it's problematic on so many levels, and unfortunately Star Wars is not the only victim of this mentality. Sigh. And the fact that this film is guaranteed to make money hand over fist only adds to reasons why a studio shouldn't give a damn about taking risks in the next trilogy/series of films.

Maybe I'm being naive, but both J.J. and Rian have sounded pretty passionate in the interviews I've seen. I completely agree that the big studio executives don't care about quality - that has been made clear by how quickly they are rushing these things out the door - but I'm hesitant to conclude that no one involved was passionate about the movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 17, 2019, 02:56:52 PM
Who cares?

The movie will make between 1 and 2 billion dollars. The movie is being made for the sole purpose of making that money. I highly doubt it's because anyone involved was passionately wanting to make a great Star Wars movie, other than possibly Rian Johnson who didn't quite succeed.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that any major studio film is anything but an attempt to make money. There are definitely people at Lucasfilm that are passionate about making great Star Wars movies. But yes, it is, first and foremost, a business.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 17, 2019, 02:59:03 PM
Who cares?

The movie will make between 1 and 2 billion dollars. The movie is being made for the sole purpose of making that money. I highly doubt it's because anyone involved was passionately wanting to make a great Star Wars movie, other than possibly Rian Johnson who didn't quite succeed.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that any major studio film is anything but an attempt to make money. There are definitely people at Lucasfilm that are passionate about making great Star Wars movies. But yes, it is, first and foremost, a business.

I mean, yes they all need to make money, but there is just something about TFA (and others, but definitely not all) that seems to be built around appealing to the most people. I dunno, it just seems more product and less film. I don't get that feeling with a lot of the Marvel movies. I think product is in there, but I think a lot of them (definitely not all) are just stories people are excited to tell. I felt that way about TLJ, I just didn't like how he did it, but that's cool. TFA, and from what I'm reading about ROS, it seems the phrase "checking off boxes" is getting used a whole lot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 17, 2019, 03:00:24 PM
Who cares?

The movie will make between 1 and 2 billion dollars. The movie is being made for the sole purpose of making that money. I highly doubt it's because anyone involved was passionately wanting to make a great Star Wars movie, other than possibly Rian Johnson who didn't quite succeed.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that any major studio film is anything but an attempt to make money. There are definitely people at Lucasfilm that are passionate about making great Star Wars movies. But yes, it is, first and foremost, a business.

I mean, yes they all need to make money, but there is just something about TFA (and others, but definitely not all) that seems to be built around appealing to the most people. I dunno, it just seems more product and less film. I don't get that feeling with a lot of the Marvel movies. I think product is in there, but I think a lot of them (definitely not all) are just stories people are excited to tell. I felt that way about TLJ, I just didn't like how he did it, but that's cool. TFA, and from what I'm reading about ROS, it seems the phrase "checking off boxes" is getting used a whole lot.

Nailed it, Adami.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 17, 2019, 03:18:09 PM
I think we need to wait and see what happens with ROS. Thus far, there has been one "check off the boxes" kind of movie (TFA) and one "I'm going to try something new" kind of movie (TLJ). If ROS goes the same route as TFA with regards to fan service and playing it safe, then it will be hard for people like me to argue that Star Wars is not a 100% cold, dispassionate product. I already see and accept that it's mostly that, but as things currently stand, I don't feel as though it's completely without sincerity, IMO.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 17, 2019, 03:40:15 PM
Totally agree. The checking off boxes comments were taken from reactions to ROS from people at the premiere.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 17, 2019, 07:12:58 PM
If you want to see biggest difference between a “passion project” and a “we did this for the paycheck”...just look at the Lord of the Rings Trilogy vs The Hobbit Trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2019, 08:59:38 PM
Totally agree. The checking off boxes comments were taken from reactions to ROS from people at the premiere.

The bulk of the non-spoiler reviews I've seen have really liked the movie. I mean, it's SW....with the story that has been told spanning all of these films there HAS to be some 'checking off boxes'.

Anyway....this debate will rage on and on and on and on.....


Just finished our re-watch of the series.....I'll reiterate again just how much I like and dig TLJ. Hadn't watched it in a good year or so and I like it more and more. If it weren't for Mary Poppin's Leia in the beginning I wouldn't really have an issue with the movie at all. Even the Canto Blight casino escapade is fading away for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 17, 2019, 09:30:16 PM
Rewatching TFA tonight in preparation. 

I hate the "checking the boxes" comparison.   I honestly think this is an AMAZING SW film.   Ok, there are some similarities, but it's done extremely well, and the actors all have heart, motivation, and good performances.     In fact (and I've said this before) it really just deepens my hatred of the prequels because Kylo Ren's character PROVES that it was possible to do a whiny, spoiled, immature brat and still give him the depth of character to make him interesting.   He was everything that Anikan should have been in the prequels, and....absolutely wasn't.

Even Kylo's light saber was part of his character.   It's totally impractical, and totally HIM.   He's like those rednecks that purposefully make their engines burn too rich so they blow black smoke everywhere they go.   It's totally impractical, totally immature, and totally Kylo.     It's all power and no self-control whatsoever.   If Kylo were a kid on earth, he would be the guy with fake testicles on the hitch of his truck. 


I really love this movie.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 17, 2019, 09:44:09 PM
I particularly like the faceoff between Kylo and Rey in the prisoner's chair.   The facial acting is off the chart.  You can tell that Kylo is unnerved by her almost from the start.   

This is an extremely well done movie.   Even if they do try to "echo" previous achievements.   

Don't most people around these parts claim that that very thing is one of the strengths of ADTOE?   ;D :angel:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 17, 2019, 10:17:32 PM
Watching the Han death scene.   One more thing I'm reminded of.   

Ever since 1986, Harrison had said he would NEVER go back to playing Han unless he died.   So I went into the movie not only prepared, but *expecting* that Han would die.     But the fact that the way the scene played out made me doubt myself for even 5 seconds after expecting it for 30 years, says a lot. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on December 17, 2019, 10:25:50 PM
I don't feel nearly as positively about TFA as you, but:

So I went into the movie not only prepared, but *expecting* that Han would die.     But the fact that the way the scene played out made me doubt myself for even 5 seconds after expecting it for 30 years, says a lot. 

That is spot on for me. In fact, looking back, that is one of the few bright spots of that movie for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bl5150 on December 18, 2019, 05:58:52 AM
Early review out here (spoiler free)

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/new-movies/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-is-unadulterated-fan-service/news-story/33947a2a984414a2984035fd8caca54c


Pretty much what I was expecting to hear
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2019, 07:05:47 AM
Anywho,

Finished Return of the Jedi for my rewatch.

Honestly? Pretty good! The Ewok stuff ranges from cute (about 5%) to terrible (about 35%) to just extremely boring (60%). But the rest of the movie is fantastic.........except for the major changes in the new versions. I found that muting that stupid song at Jabba's really helped it haha.

But once they get Han back, the movie is actually great. The stuff on the new Death Star is really riveting and emotional.

So this one actually came off better than I remember it. I would still cut out like 20 minutes of Ewoks at least, but minus them and some of the dumb changes, it's a great movie.


Tomorrow is TFA.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2019, 07:25:12 AM
Started to watch The Last Jedi yesterday on a DVD I borrowed from the library, but it ended up being so scratched I couldn't get more than 45 minutes into it. So I won't be able to rewatch that in advance of tomorrow's ROS showing. Oh well. I remember it well enough.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 18, 2019, 07:31:13 AM
Well, since it all ends tomorrow I'll jump on the ranking bandwagon...

1- Rogue One (I fall in love with it more and more with each viewing)
2- New Hope
3- Empire
4- Force Awakens
5- Solo
6- Revenge of the Sith
7- Return of the Jedi (fucking Ewoks)
8- Last Jedi
9- Phantom Menace
10- Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 18, 2019, 07:43:38 AM
Dang that Mandalorian episode was amazing! Sad we only have one more episode but I've enjoyed them all so far and the last two have been flat out exciting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 18, 2019, 07:49:49 AM
There's only one more? :( I was hoping for 10. Darn it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2019, 07:51:48 AM
There's only one more? :( I was hoping for 10. Darn it.

They're already in the middle of or near completing S2....so it shouldn't be too long a wait for it I would think....hopefully?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 18, 2019, 08:22:11 AM
I hate the "checking the boxes" comparison.   

Same here.  It really misses the point.  TFA was a good, fun film in its own right.  No need to be dismissive by, ironically, trying to put it into a box to try to make it into something it's not. 

Anyhow, that said, let's move on...

Ep. IV - A New Hope:

Three things that worked:
-1.  Vader's entrance.  Actually, the entire opening sequence.  Just brilliant.  It set up the Empire as something scary, and Vader as the rightful face of that terrifying entity.
-2.  The battle of Yavin.  Yeah, space battles have become much better and more epic.  But this was really the first of its kind on film.  And the dated effects notwithstanding, it still holds up. 
-3.  Luke's character.  He was whiny, immature, and annoying.  Yet, he was entirely likeable and relatable.  Whatever flaws you can argue, the fact is that EVERY kid in my generation wanted to be Luke Skywalker.  Well, okay, some wanted to be Han too.  But that's beside the point.  The farmboy who becomes a reluctant hero when he loses everything, and manages to harness a cosmic power bigger than himself to defeat an unbeatable enemy was inherently likeable.  A New Hope is absolutely his story and his journey. 

Three things that didn't
-1.  Greedo did NOT shoot first.  He just didn't.  This really should have been left alone.
-2.  Pacing.  Overall, the pacing is just a bit too slow.  Some may say it is just a product of its time, and that the pacing was perfectly fine for the time in which this film was released.  I disagree.  I was 7 when this came out.  I was the target audience.  And I had sat through many movies up to that point.  But despite all the amazing visuals and world-building, I kept getting bored and distracted when I first saw it as a kid.  Although I love the movie, that feeling has never left me.  Thankfully, there is enough action spread out to keep getting my attention and draw me back in when I start to drift. 
-3.  Retcon needed!  Okay, this isn't really a flaw with THIS film.  It's more to do with Lucas doing things in subsequent films that are inconsistent with things in this film ("I don't seem to recall ever owning a droid.").  Lucas should have just been more careful in those subsequent films and found ways to NOT make us roll our eyes and have to explain away things.  But honestly, I just don't really have many flaws to point out in this film. 

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Honestly, not much.  The story was fine.  Most problems I have are either too minor to dwell on or were actually problems created by what Lucas did afterward.  I don't think I'm going to have much to say in this category for the original trilogy films at all.  I guess if I have to say anything at all, I'll just say that Lucas should have been more judicious with his changes/updates in later releases.  Don't make Greedo shoot first!  Don't include the Jabba scene that not only looks wonky, but actually undercuts some things we know about the Han/Jabba relationship from later on.  Don't change Obi-Wan's krayt dragon call.  But I'm fine with the other updates.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2019, 08:58:49 AM
I'm not sure if my "checking boxes" comment was misunderstood. It just means that the people behind the movie, in mine and others' opinions, based a substantial amount of creative decisions on what they imagined the fans want most out of the next movie. It doesn't mean they didn't execute that very well, or that the movie isn't very fun or good in its own right.

I very much enjoyed TFA, as I have said numerous times, so my comments are not trying to discount it being an enjoyable movie. It just felt more like a very very well crafted product for the fans than it did a story that someone really wanted to tell, though it obviously had plenty of elements of that in there.

And the phrase "checking off the boxes" or whatever, I was taking directly from several twitter reactions from people who have seen ROS and also mostly enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 18, 2019, 09:01:02 AM
I think there's validity in the "checking off boxes" criticism, though. Much as it might sound dismissive to those who read that criticism, I think it's equally dismissive to act as if that's something you can't say about a movie. All the reviews I'm reading that have used that particular term have backed it up with references to what happens in the movie. But we'll just have to see for ourselves.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 18, 2019, 09:02:59 AM
No, I hear your opinion.  I just dismiss it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2019, 09:06:03 AM
No, I hear your opinion.  I just dismiss it.

I dismiss you! I dismiss the whole court!

I diss you. I miss you. I dismiss you!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2019, 09:16:25 AM
I will add an element to my criticism of TFA.

I don’t think any of the stuff I’m saying they did was done out of cynicism. I think it was done to give the fans as much of what they want as possible in effort to make them happy.

Contrast that with Transformers, which felt like “who cares? They want splosions! They aren’t smart enough to care about story or character”
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 18, 2019, 09:40:02 AM
Watching the Han death scene.   One more thing I'm reminded of.   

Ever since 1986, Harrison had said he would NEVER go back to playing Han unless he died.   So I went into the movie not only prepared, but *expecting* that Han would die.     But the fact that the way the scene played out made me doubt myself for even 5 seconds after expecting it for 30 years, says a lot.

My favorite part of that scene is the how light on Ben's faces shifts from Blue to Red signifying his internal struggle with the Light and Dark side. Brilliant.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 18, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
My ranking thus far:

1.  Rogue One:  I love this movie.  It was wholly unnecessary, and dialed back prior pre-Disney canon about how the rebels got the plans.  But it was fantastically done.  It added so much color and depth to the Star Wars universe.  It wasn't perfect.  But, man, if all the Star Wars films were this level of quality, I would have absolutely zero complaints.

2.  The Force Awakens:  It's probably controversial to rank it this highly, but I do.  It took a lot of what was great about Star Wars in general, and brought it into this era in film making in a very satisfying way.  Loved it.  This is a VERY close second to Rogue One.

3.  The Empire Strikes Back:  Solid.  It being ranked #3 is in no way a knock on anything.  But the modern, fresh approach to the films in my #1 and #2 spots just make them slightly better to me.

4.  Return of the Jedi:  This film had some problems.  But in the grand scheme of things, they are minor and easily overlooked.  Such a grand ending to the original story.

5.  Solo:  I like this movie more than I thought I would or should.  So much about it, and indeed the film as a whole, felt so "unnecessary."  But at the same time, it was just fun all around and made you feel that you were seeing the type of Star Wars movie that Star Wars always felt like it was supposed to be about.  That's a big win in and of itself.

6.  A New Hope:  If I'm being completely honest, me putting Solo in front of this one is probably more about me trying to make a statement in my own mind about the OT not being "untouchable" than it is about the actual relative quality of these two movies.  But in any case, this is, overall, a very good movie.  It suffers a bit in the pacing.  But that's really the only issue with it (aside from some of the changes Lucas made in later editions), and that's not a major issue by any stretch.

7.  The Last Jedi:  Good movie.  It would rank higher if not for the casino planet sub-plot being SUCH a distraction and feeling so mishandled.  Other little issues also feel magnified because there are just so many of them.  Overall, it's a good film with a good story to tell.  It's just that there were a lot of distractions.  And while I can explain most of them away and say, "Yeah, it's not really a big deal now that I think about it," the fact that I DO think about it and have to tell myself that knocks the film down a few pegs.  But the whole slow chase "BSG '33' episode" was a really cool idea.  And I (mostly) loved where they went with Luke's character, Rey potentially being more of a "nobody" than "amazing because she is a Skywalker so there," Snoke, and Kylo.

8.  Revenge of the Sith:  It's such a shame that most of the "problems" with this movie aren't problems that are actually IN this movie, but are residual problems created by the two films that preceded it.  It had a lot of good things, and is overall fairly enjoyable.  But, as I said, it is unfortunately mired in some issues that I find hard to completely overlook as a fan.  To me, for the PT as a whole, it's best to just take what I enjoy from them and not dwell on the negatives too much.

9.  The Phantom Menace:  I didn't dislike the movie at the time it came out.  But I think its "problems" are magnified when places in context of the entire PT.  There was a lot about it that was pretty good and pretty fun.  But it just got too silly and too offtrack.

10.  Attack of the Clones:  Some REALLY cool moments.  But so much about Anakin himself, the relationship between Anakin and Padme, and the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan made a lot of fans, myself included, feel like Lucas messed up the character of Anakin/Vader and was making him a much different character than the one we actually got and were promised in the OT.  And that, unfortunately, taints a lot of fans' views of the entire SW franchise.  Add to that the fact things like the droid factory sequence feeling like a parody and a combination of a video game and cartoon aimed solely at VERY young kids.  For those reasons, this film ranks at the bottom. 

The 10 films thus far being in the books, I have to comment for just a second on a theme I referenced a couple of times above.  These films are, for obvious reasons, interconnected.  What happens in one provides context and color to the others.  That being said, it would not surprise me if what ends up happening in Ep. IX might potentially change the rankings of some of the other films.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on December 18, 2019, 11:34:54 AM
Dang that Mandalorian episode was amazing! Sad we only have one more episode but I've enjoyed them all so far and the last two have been flat out exciting.

Does this episode adds something to the Story of Star Wars as mentioned before? Rey parents? Anything? I will watch tonite
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2019, 11:36:33 AM
Dang that Mandalorian episode was amazing! Sad we only have one more episode but I've enjoyed them all so far and the last two have been flat out exciting.

Does this episode adds something to the Story of Star Wars as mentioned before? Rey parents? Anything? I will watch tonite

Haven't watched yet, but from what I've read, it has a scene or sneak peak or something of TROS at the end.

It would be truly odd if The Mandalorian addressed Rey's parents.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 18, 2019, 11:46:22 AM
So i have now seen The Rise Of Skywalker!

Whoa! What a sensory overload of a movie! Both in good and bad. This could contain some rambling as i'm still trying to sort my thoughts about it. None of this will contain spoilers!!

Best way i can sum up this movie, is that it feels like JJ's vision for episode 8 and 9 crammed into one movie. There is a lot of exposition. A lot of questions hovering around the sequel trilogy are answered. Some of them are answered in a way that creates new plot holes. Other seemingly very important questions are still left up in the air. There is not outright retconning of The Last Jedi, but a lot of the elements from TLJ are twisted in a different way.

TROS has a breakneck pace. So much so, that i wish it had slowed down more for the important and very heartfelt moments. Good comparison i think would be The Dark Knight Rises. Both movies had to resolve a lot of stuff in one movie. And in both movies some of the resolutions are glanced over very quick. But in the end, i think it gives a satisfying conclusion to the whole Skywalker Saga, but i have a feeling that not everybody is going to feel the same.

Daisy Ridley was as great as ever, as was Adam Driver. Ian McDiarmid seemed to have a blast. He is just as great as ever, in delivering evil one-liners and cackling maniacally :lol. Saying anything more would be very spoilerish!

I'll have to collect my thought before i can even attempt to give any kind of review. It's clear that JJ was fighting an uphill battle when making this movie. I think if he have had two movies dedicated to this story it would have come out better. I'm not a fan of needlessly long movies, but i think a longer running time would have also helped.

As it stands now, it is my least favorite sequel trilogy movie. Although i'm excited to see it again with friends next Monday. Not going to even attempt to rank it now. :lol



Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 18, 2019, 11:52:46 AM
Some of them are answered in a way that creates new plot holes.

The term "plot hole" is SO frequently mis-used nowadays that I have to ask:  Does it TRULY create actual plot holes?  Or does it simply create more unanswered questions or questions that are answered in a way that subjectively feels unsatisfying?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 18, 2019, 01:36:42 PM
Dang that Mandalorian episode was amazing! Sad we only have one more episode but I've enjoyed them all so far and the last two have been flat out exciting.

Does this episode adds something to the Story of Star Wars as mentioned before? Rey parents? Anything? I will watch tonite

Not that I could see. There is an extras tab that is supposed to be something about Rise but I didn't watch that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 18, 2019, 01:42:26 PM
Dang that Mandalorian episode was amazing! Sad we only have one more episode but I've enjoyed them all so far and the last two have been flat out exciting.

Does this episode adds something to the Story of Star Wars as mentioned before? Rey parents? Anything? I will watch tonite

Not really, but the only connection I could see (And i barley would call it a connection) is:


Spoilers for show and IX:



Baby Yoda uses the force to heal somebody, which Rey also does in IX


Besides that, its just sticks to Mandalorian story stuff and was a great episode  :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2019, 01:51:49 PM
There is an extras tab that is supposed to be something about Rise but I didn't watch that.

It's just a portion of a trailer that hasn't been shown on TV yet....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2019, 06:08:47 PM
It just dawned on me that if, in another timeline, they were to reboot Star Wars, Willem Dafoe would make an amazing emperor.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 18, 2019, 07:06:40 PM
Ep 7 of The Mandalorian was stellar! I have seen complaints that the show has been about nothing and goes nowhere and is setting nothing up. That should be silenced with today's episode. It all came together. It was also sad.

Man, the last episode should be a real doozy after this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 18, 2019, 07:54:00 PM
Ep 7 of The Mandalorian was stellar! I have seen complaints that the show has been about nothing and goes nowhere and is setting nothing up. That should be silenced with today's episode. It all came together. It was also sad.

Man, the last episode should be a real doozy after this.

Yeah, it all came together very nicely for sure...and I got a real shitty feeling that the last episode is gonna be a big 'fuck you' cliffhanger, like one of those that just makes you break shit in your house.


Oh, and fuck yes to baby Yoda force choking Cara Dune  :metal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2019, 08:03:28 PM
Ep 7 of The Mandalorian was stellar! I have seen complaints that the show has been about nothing and goes nowhere and is setting nothing up. That should be silenced with today's episode. It all came together. It was also sad.

Man, the last episode should be a real doozy after this.

Yeah, it all came together very nicely for sure...and I got a real shitty feeling that the last episode is gonna be a big 'fuck you' cliffhanger, like one of those that just makes you break shit in your house.


Oh, and fuck yes to baby Yoda force choking Cara Dune  :metal

I have zero complaints as to how they’ve progressed the show. It’s done really well. There’s an underlying story going on with episodic ‘issues’ that drive the narrative.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2019, 08:06:09 PM
The show is really good.

If I had one complaint, it’s that the show is a bit....too light. Like it feels more like a really tasty snack rather than a filling meal. However, that seems to be what they’re going for and they’re nailing it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2019, 08:25:59 PM
The show is really good.

If I had one complaint, it’s that the show is a bit....too light. Like it feels more like a really tasty snack rather than a filling meal. However, that seems to be what they’re going for and they’re nailing it.

They’re spoon feeding us instead of just opening the buffet line.....and it’s working.


Honestly if I had to ‘complain’ I’d just wish for longer episodes. Doesn’t even have to be a full hour....do the 40-43 minute range like the EXPANSE and other shows. But that’s a minor quibble.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2019, 08:31:58 PM
That’s not really what I meant.

The show wasn’t trying to be heavy. It’s trying to be (mostly) light. And it’s doing an amazing job. I was just hoping for something heavier. But it’s all good. Loving the show.



Can we also show some love for Brendan Wayne for playing the Mandalorian? A lot of the acting is in the physical mannerisms and Brendan is crushing it. Wish he was getting more credit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 18, 2019, 08:41:36 PM
24 hours to go for my show tomorrow. It should be fun. I'm also done with my re-watch of all movies. Last Jedi has probably my favorite story and some amazing visuals. The throne room fight being my favorite scene. Plus the fight with Kylo Ren and Luke. Rey getting trained with Luke, Yoda force burning the temple, The force bridge with Ren and Rey. So many great beats. I don't mind the Canto Bight sequence, I like the theme of failure throughout the movie and almost losing out.

There are of course issues with movie, no doubt, I wish they had toned the humor down, they didn't translate well at times and just very forced. Some of the sequences could have been setup a little better. The battle of Krait was fun and great but Finn and Rose sequence was oddly shot. As cool as the destruction of the destroyer was with light speed, Finn and Rose being almost executed in front of a battalion of storm troopers only to wake up with no one in sight was a bit jarring.

But still overall I enjoyed the movie tremendously. I look forward to the conclusion, I have enjoyed the 4 new star wars movies a lot more than the prequels, warts and all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2019, 09:17:15 PM
Can we also show some love for Brendan Wayne for playing the Mandalorian? A lot of the acting is in the physical mannerisms and Brendan is crushing it. Wish he was getting more credit.

Pedro Pascal is the actor playing the Mandalorian. Who's Brendan Wayne?

***edit*** just looking him up. Interesting. I thought Pascal was under the armor as well. I agree that the mannerisms are very good to come across the way they do.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2019, 09:21:54 PM
24 hours to go for my show tomorrow.

9:30 Central for me and my crew.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2019, 09:31:09 PM
Can we also show some love for Brendan Wayne for playing the Mandalorian? A lot of the acting is in the physical mannerisms and Brendan is crushing it. Wish he was getting more credit.

Pedro Pascal is the actor playing the Mandalorian. Who's Brendan Wayne?

***edit*** just looking him up. Interesting. I thought Pascal was under the armor as well. I agree that the mannerisms are very good to come across the way they do.

Exactly my point. Not enough people know about his role.


Also he’s John Wayne’s grandson
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 18, 2019, 09:33:43 PM
Yeah, I meant to mention in my post about Ep 7 is that people these days don't appreciate the slow burn. Me, I love when a story takes it time and slowly builds up to the end game. Of course, it also needs to stay interesting during the slow burn. For me, this show does it.

From what I have read, Pedro is in the armor quite a bit but for a lot of the stunts and stuff, he isn't. Bryce Dallas Howard directed the episode that introduced Cara and she mentioned that Pedro was not available during the shooting of that entire episode so there is no physical appearance of Pedro at all. You just get his voice work.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 18, 2019, 09:43:17 PM
Just watched the new episode, awesome stuff. I felt bad for the two animals that got killed and wtf at the end :(
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 18, 2019, 10:45:54 PM
Just watched the new episode, awesome stuff. I felt bad for the two animals that got killed and wtf at the end :(

Like I said, they're hella setting us up for a total heartbreak man, I just feel it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 19, 2019, 06:19:22 AM
Just watched the new episode, awesome stuff. I felt bad for the two animals that got killed and wtf at the end :(

Like I said, they're hella setting us up for a total heartbreak man, I just feel it.

If they harm one hair on his fuzzy little head I will die.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2019, 07:07:36 AM
Just watched the new episode, awesome stuff. I felt bad for the two animals that got killed and wtf at the end :(

Like I said, they're hella setting us up for a total heartbreak man, I just feel it.

If they harm one hair on his fuzzy little head I will die.

I'm with ya bro.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 19, 2019, 07:27:57 AM
24 hours to go for my show tomorrow.

9:30 Central for me and my crew.

6:30 for me tonight!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 19, 2019, 07:31:54 AM
Saturday at 3:15 haha. Couldn't get good tickets earlier without a long drive.


But tonight is TFA and tomorrow night is TLJ. So I should be primed and ready to go.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 19, 2019, 07:33:05 AM
I had to move my ROS showing from tonight to tomorrow afternoon. Just can't afford to stay out as late tonight as I was planning on. Hopefully I can remain spoiler free. I've already heard more about critic's general reactions than I wanted to hear.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 19, 2019, 07:37:54 AM
Yea. I've heard the spoiler free reviews by most of the people that I trust, and they weren't great.

They ranged from "Movie is not good, but has really good moments" to "Movie is fun, but a mess and a 6.5/10".

Obviously I think most fans are going to absolutely love it, but I'll go in with the same expectations I always do. I just want a well written, well directed, well acted movie that makes sense.

And as always, I am super excited to have the battle that will wage after the movie. Where the movie has to either be a burning dumpster fire or a perfect piece of art that is flawless. Criticisms will either be super exaggerated or completely dismissed. No one will be allowed to enjoy the film and admit it's deeply flawed. If they enjoy it, it's because it's AMAZING, and anyone who disagrees is a hater. If someone finds it flawed, then people who disagree are blind fanboys.

Fun times we live in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 19, 2019, 07:46:08 AM
I cannot wait for RedLetterMedia's Half In The Bag video on The Rise of Skywalker. Rich, Jay, and Mike are just amazing at what they do and they put me in fits of laughter. Then after the Blu-Ray comes out, Mr. Plinkett's TROS review will come out and that will be glorious like the rest.

I just bought my ticket for 9:30 tonight on a massive screen (but not IMAX) so this evening will be fun. Somehow managed to snag an almost-center-of-room seat at the last minute!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 19, 2019, 07:58:51 AM
I have never found those funny.  Not even a little bit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 19, 2019, 08:00:25 AM
I have never found those funny.  Not even a little bit.

Filing this under "least surprising reveal ever."  :lol To me they're comedy gold. Tastes!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2019, 08:28:21 AM
8:45 on the giant screen for me....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 19, 2019, 08:30:12 AM
And as always, I am super excited to have the battle that will wage after the movie. Where the movie has to either be a burning dumpster fire or a perfect piece of art that is flawless. Criticisms will either be super exaggerated or completely dismissed. No one will be allowed to enjoy the film and admit it's deeply flawed. If they enjoy it, it's because it's AMAZING, and anyone who disagrees is a hater. If someone finds it flawed, then people who disagree are blind fanboys.

I get the funny feeling that there will be a lot of things re-typed and said that have been said about the past (2) efforts in this new trilogy....from both sides. I'm personally hoping that there is much to discuss and talk about without having to 'go there' but I don't hold out much hope that the conversation won't just end at where it's been after TLJ.

Might just watch the movie tonight.....drop in here and throw my two cents in in small font......and then try to stay out of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 19, 2019, 08:32:04 AM
8:45 on the giant screen for me....

IMAX or just a really big Screen?   We're doing the Dream Lounger's in the Super Screen DLX theater. Had to go 3D in order to get (5) seats continuous....center....back row but I don't mind 3D and the boys dig it also. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 19, 2019, 08:47:40 AM
I'm watching it on Dolby cinema  Which I personally think is better than IMAX. At least better than the setups I have seen here. The sound is fantastic in the Dolby theaters here.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 19, 2019, 08:50:46 AM
I'm watching it on Dolby cinema  Which I personally think is better than IMAX. At least better than the setups I have seen here. The sound is fantastic in the Dolby theaters here.

Sometimes I watch a movie or listen to a record and wish it were mixed in Dobly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 19, 2019, 08:53:31 AM
I'm watching it on Dolby cinema  Which I personally think is better than IMAX. At least better than the setups I have seen here. The sound is fantastic in the Dolby theaters here.

The local Marcus Theater here took over from Wherenberg a couple years back....they installed Dolby in every room whereas it wasn't in all of them before. they then made (5) of the (14) screens the 'dream lounger' seats which is pretty nice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 19, 2019, 09:08:26 AM
The AMC I'm going to did the same. They renovated all their screens and for a majority of halls put in the lounge seats with a big gap between the chairs. I think they only have a capacity of 100  max per hall. 10 chairs in each row. It's always a great experience. You can't see the people in the rows below you, so if someone is on their phone I have no idea.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 19, 2019, 09:45:58 AM
All I know is that one of my local theaters has something called the "Big D" experience and, well, I'm a little scared.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 19, 2019, 09:46:43 AM
Just to confirm:  I do NOT plan to be at any of your local theaters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 19, 2019, 09:48:18 AM
Just to confirm:  I do NOT plan to be at any of your local theaters.

Come on, bosk, you can get the Big D experience. My treat.  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 19, 2019, 10:17:30 AM
I'm watching it on Dolby cinema  Which I personally think is better than IMAX. At least better than the setups I have seen here. The sound is fantastic in the Dolby theaters here.

Sometimes I watch a movie or listen to a record and wish it were mixed in Dobly.

Dublin?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 19, 2019, 10:19:33 AM
I'm watching it on Dolby cinema  Which I personally think is better than IMAX. At least better than the setups I have seen here. The sound is fantastic in the Dolby theaters here.

Sometimes I watch a movie or listen to a record and wish it were mixed in Dobly.

Dublin?

(https://www.sinistercrypt.com/rock_music_metal_t-shirts/dubly_spinal_tap_t-shirt/dubly_spinal_tap_t-shirt_530p.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2019, 10:55:03 AM
Just to confirm:  I do NOT plan to be at any of your local theaters.

You sure? I'll be in your area Monday through Thursday.....


8:45 on the giant screen for me....

IMAX or just a really big Screen?   We're doing the Dream Lounger's in the Super Screen DLX theater. Had to go 3D in order to get (5) seats continuous....center....back row but I don't mind 3D and the boys dig it also. 

Just big... I'll probably do IMAX when the heat cools down, I couldn't get a good seat for tonight's showing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 19, 2019, 12:48:39 PM
If I'm not mistaken, I think I read last night that the first Star Wars was ground-breaking in exposing Dubly to the masses.   The studio made it a requirement of the theaters to have Dubly if they wanted the movie.

EDIT:  Yep.  This source (https://www.tested.com/starwars/460476-star-wars-and-explosion-dolby-stereo/) says the technology was in about 30 theaters before Star Wars, and in a thousand after.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on December 19, 2019, 04:32:08 PM
So is it safe to post our reviews in this thread?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 19, 2019, 04:47:13 PM
So is it safe to post our reviews in this thread?

Spoiler free. Or put spoilers in tiny font. I think that’s what Bosk said.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 19, 2019, 05:59:24 PM
Just Saw Rise Of Skywalker and no spoilers, just general thoughts:

I pretty much loved it. But that being said, yeah, it was definitely a mess and was ALL over the place. It bounces from location to location at  break neck speed, and that makes its hard to keep up. Throws a bunch of shit at the wall just to see what will stick. Some things do, some things really don't.

Its like a patchwork of so many different ideas, and things get cranked up to 11 just for the hell of it. But that being said I was entertained, and its a film I could enjoy watching from time to time.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 19, 2019, 11:31:11 PM
Dug the heck out of it. As much as I like TLJ this movie makes me kind of wish JJ would have just done all three of them. You don’t need the force power of being able to foresee stuff to know that ‘fan service’ will be thrown around a lot but IMO it all works And is well done. Can’t wait to see it again tomorrow night. Once more folks have seen it I suspect the conversation can really start
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 19, 2019, 11:40:15 PM
I would rate the movie 9/10. Extremely entertaining through and through. Full on fan service and I totally loved every minute of it.

I am very content right now. Watching it in Dolby was an absolute treat.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 19, 2019, 11:44:16 PM
I would rate the movie 9/10. Extremely entertaining through and through. Full on fan service and I totally loved every minute of it.

I am very content right now. Watching it in Dolby was an absolute treat.

100% agree. I do think that even with the moments where fan service came in to play.....it still managed to tell a story. It was packed to the brim for sure.....but it made sense at least. And our theater was rocking! 3D plus Dolby has me still amped.   :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 19, 2019, 11:55:27 PM
Just got back. It sucked. It really, really sucked.

Happy for the people that liked it, though, and I guess that's all that really matters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 20, 2019, 12:42:19 AM
Hmmmm, just got home....


As I say for all the Star Wars movies, it delivers SW entertainment in a way only SW can deliver it. Some really cool visuals, and pretty solid action sequences. Very, very busy movie, and pretty relentless with the action. It was all I was expecting out of a finale to a trilogy that maybe should have gone a completely different direction to begin with, but hey, hindsight is 20/20.

More when the real discussion begins.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 20, 2019, 05:19:22 AM
I enjoyed it for what it was but it definitely has some flaws. How much those flaws bother you will vary from person to person and how seriously you take Star Wars I think. For me the main issue at its core is the trilogy being poorly planned from the get go. You could tell Rian didn't like TFA and tried to change a lot in TLJ, and then you could tell JJ didn't like what TLJ did and tried to correct the course from his opening movie of the trilogy to get to the ending he envisioned.

Overall I thought it was more enjoyable than TLJ but not as good as TFA. It has some great moments but the pacing especially in the first half felt a bit rushed for me. If I had to make some analogy for my thoughts on the trilogy as a whole, I would say TFA was like a well prepared and seasoned turkey that was placed in the oven. TLJ burnt the turkey and RoS tried it's hardest to make an eatable meal out of the scraps.

I'd give it like a 7/10.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 20, 2019, 05:49:27 AM
I will say I think a lot of people are going to hate it. There are quite a few issues in the movie. The pacing if off the charts. It's like 4 movies in one and I really wished they made it longer like 3 hours or so. I going to read and see the reviews of those who weren't thrilled with it and I will probably agree with them all.

It's unfortunate but the whole trilogy is essentially very disconnected from each movie. They should have sat down in the beginning and come up with a grand plan and mapped out an entire story arc for the characters.

Alas it is what it is. I'm grateful for the 5 new movies that came out, it definitely could've been better for the trilogy but I enjoyed them all and each one of them is a 9/10 for me, warts and all.

On my recent rewatch I thought I wouldn't like ep 7 & 8 but it wasn't the case, the look and feel of the star wars universe was great in the new episodes and I enjoyed the visuals a whole bunch. Episode 9 had some amazing set pieces and was a fitting end story wise. I only wish the movie was longer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 20, 2019, 06:56:09 AM
Was it just me, or did it have a Game of Thrones, Season 8 feel to it?


It's unfortunate but the whole trilogy is essentially very disconnected from each movie. They should have sat down in the beginning and come up with a grand plan and mapped out an entire story arc for the characters.


This is definitely the core issue with the whole thing, and I think it's rather irresponsible of them (Disney) to take something of this magnitude and not plot it out properly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2019, 07:02:37 AM
RJ.....I don’t think this or the new trilogy comes anywhere close to S8 GOT level. I think the larger issue is what Faizoff said. Disney dropped the ball by not having a clear ‘plan’ for each movie.

Bottom line is what Zangara mentioned. You’re enjoyment of these movies is directly tied to what your expectations were/are fr them. I wanted a cool story with good visuals and some neat characters. For me, they delivered. I can understand that some folks will not feel the same. And that’s a bummer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 20, 2019, 07:03:30 AM
Was it just me, or did it have a Game of Thrones, Season 8 feel to it?

Had a lot of that feeling. I was debating this on the drive home; not sure if it's as bad as Season 8 was relative to the overall product (I think GoT by and large was an incredible show), but it has a lot of the very same problems. I thought it did some things pretty well though. Those visuals are amazing. One thing I'll never get sick of is watching spaceships appear after going light speed. And it looks REALLY cool in TROS.

Did anybody catch the part toward the end that seemed to almost copy Avengers: Endgame? Lol. Spoilers: When Daddy Palps says, "I am ALL the Sith!" and Rey says, even with a pause, "And I am... all the Jedi!"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 20, 2019, 07:32:13 AM
It bounces from location to location at  break neck speed, and that makes its hard to keep up.

Hmm...  Since the first part of Rogue One did the same thing and I loved it, this bodes well.  I like when you've got a bunch of locations and it actually makes the universe seem huge.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 20, 2019, 07:33:12 AM
I mean, I still enjoyed GoT S8, but we all know the gaping issues. And Gary, I went in with those exact preconceptions, so I wasn't disappointed, as I said it delivered Star Wars level entertainment for sure.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 20, 2019, 07:38:20 AM
Well, now that more and more people are seeing it, I guess I'm out of this thread until tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2019, 08:02:55 AM
Couple things:

I think it might have served the story better had Rey died at the end and Ben survived? I know that was never gonna happen given how much she's been propped up but he was a 'true' Skywalker. I don't think the story suffers from it being the way it was but Ben being the in that final scene would've 'meant' more.

It'd have been neat to see Rey show up to Tatooine months later with a baby bump. That somehow....when Ben gave her his life force so she could live he knocked her up also.


As I said earlier.....my largest complaint is that Disney didn't have one writer or a collaboration of writers that mapped out these three films. As a whole I dig the trilogy and was entertained but I think they missed a chance to really do something 'special'. As satisfied as I am with the three movies and the conclusion it doesn't feel like they reached that realm of being 'eternal' so to speak. The OT is 'eternal'......for whatever reason(s).....they're at a level that this trilogy just couldn't find.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 20, 2019, 08:48:46 AM
I kind of agree with the first part of your tiny script, and actually thought that was gonna happen in the moment.



The second part is just silly. :p
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 20, 2019, 08:54:36 AM
My favorite part of the movie was when Baby Yoda force choked the entire First Order. That kid's going places.






No, he is not actually in the movie, nobody freak out.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 20, 2019, 09:10:32 AM
Baby Yoda has a new challanger:  Babu Frik


(https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/babu-frik-main_4da7f430.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C1281%2C720&width=560)


I loved that guy
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 20, 2019, 09:25:11 AM
I've been processing since last night and I'm going to have to see it again to form a strong opinion either way. After I see it again I'll post my new rankings. Now that I know how the story unfolds I really want to focus on the details, especially the score.

Cons:
- I agree with what most have said, the story would have benefited a ton from even another 5-10 minutes. This was the biggest issue overall for me. The first part just felt clunky.
- I also agree that Disney's idea to originally have 3 different directors direct a 3 part arc with no pre-planning was not a smart thing. Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm glad they brought back JJ to finish it. Honestly, I think they did a great job considering the situation. Could it have been better. Yes, but it is what it is. This really is the Return of the Jedi of this trilogy. Empire was a fantastic film and felt different than ANH and RotJ. This is how that feels too. The original trilogy has a lot of the same problems as the new trilogy, people just choose to ignore them for some reason.
- No physical Ahsoka cameo
- We never got to hear how Maz got Luke's saber
-Finn. His whole arc was the most bungled from 8 to 9. He really was just there and I think they should have had him sacrifice himself

Pros:
- Daisy Ridley. Rey may be my new favorite Star Wars character. Plus, she is super foxy.
- The acting was really good all around.
- Poe was fantastic.
- Zorii Bliss was my favorite of the new characters.

Missed Opportunity
- How cool would it have been if at the end when Rey and the Emperor and they say "I'm all the Sith/Jedi" that the force ghosts of the dead sith and jedi showed up behind them? Man that would have been epic and a cool call back to the past films.

Overall, after one viewing I'd give it a 3.5/5. I think it may jump up to a 4 after a second viewing but I think it will still end up being my least favorite of this trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 20, 2019, 09:28:52 AM
So last night was TFA on my rewatch. I gotta say.....I've changed my perspective on it this time around. Though not extremely.

I'd say the acting is actually really good (for these kinds of movies). The casting was spot on.

First time I watched it, I was predisposed to hate Adam Driver. I only knew him from a few episodes of Girls and I hated him. But since then? I've come to LOVE Adam Driver. So watching it without that dislike for him helped, since his character is my favorite from the new trilogy (thus far).

But it's cool watching these without being a huge diehard Star Wars fan. I think when you're SUCH a huge fan of a series (like I am with Marvel), it makes it harder to watch it without being predisposed to loving it no matter what. So the flaws, I can notice them but not have it kill my childhood or challenge my love of anything.

Over all though? The movie is a good fun time but not very well written. I'd say it's about 20% good movie, 20% horribly written movie, and 40% love letter to classic Star Wars. The problem is, I don't want my Star Wars to be a love letter to Star Wars, I just want it to be a good addition to the franchise. I get that JJ is a giant SW fan and wants to show is love for it, but it just took up SO much time and attention that it kept taking me out of things.

Also, this movie is just not (overall) very well written, from a story perspective. There's amazing elements....AMAZING elements, but the story is just not very well constructed. Star Wars is a very simple story, and I feel like the new trilogy is trying to be so complicated and complex at times that it doesn't work for me.

But it's a fun popcorn flick that just lacks any of the stuff that made SW huge in the first place. So, much like the prequels, I feel like TFA's role in history will only be its connection to the OT, and not on its own merits.


So I don't like it any more or less than I did before, but I liked some aspects more, and some way less.

I really wish they had written Poe and Finn and Rey better, cause those actors performances are the only things making them great. The writing just isn't there for them. With the possible exception of Finn's origins as a Storm Trooper, but even that is pretty shallowly presented.

Kylo is still my favorite character.

Tonight is The Last Jedi and tomorrow is TROS. Should be interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2019, 09:45:00 AM
I will also add this.....

This trilogy is as much...maybe even more about Kylo Ren's redemption and journey back to the 'light' side as it is Rey's coming in to her own. Out of the three movies Ren/Ben is the most developed and explored and challenged and well acted. In fact, the more I think about it....I think they missed the opportunity to have Ben Solo be the 'last man standing' so to speak. I think it'd have been just fine and fitting to have Rey die taking out her evil Grandpa....and then have Ben survive, alive on Tatooine as 'the Last Skywalker'.

Honestly, I think they avoided that scenario because they'd have caught crap for killing off the strong 'woman' lead.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 20, 2019, 09:47:08 AM
Can I just say that I really appreciate you guys keeping the spoilers to tiny font? It's nice to still be able to post my other reviews and read general thoughts and not have to worry about having the movie ruined for me.

So thank you, truly!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 20, 2019, 09:59:46 AM
The audience at my theater loved Babu Frik. Gotta admit he made me laugh a few times.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 20, 2019, 09:59:58 AM
I will also add this.....

This trilogy is as much...maybe even more about Kylo Ren's redemption and journey back to the 'light' side as it is Rey's coming in to her own. Out of the three movies Ren/Ben is the most developed and explored and challenged and well acted. In fact, the more I think about it....I think they missed the opportunity to have Ben Solo be the 'last man standing' so to speak. I think it'd have been just fine and fitting to have Rey die taking out her evil Grandpa....and then have Ben survive, alive on Tatooine as 'the Last Skywalker'.

Honestly, I think they avoided that scenario because they'd have caught crap for killing off the strong 'woman' lead.


Good point. Since this is the Skywalker saga I'm surprised they didn't make Rey a "true" skywalker. I'm not in love with her being a Palapatine, but I'm guessing no one guessed that. Maybe they're setting up another movie or game or something to explore that more? She could have been a clone built from Skywalker DNA. She could have been Luke's daughter. I get making her a Palapatine creates conflict for her but I'm not sold yet. Maybe another viewing will fix that. Though, I guess it's cool that she took on the name to continue the legacy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 20, 2019, 10:00:41 AM
The audience at my theater loved Babu Frik. Gotta admit he made me laugh a few times.

He was really funny. And so was C-3PO. Best use of him since Empire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 20, 2019, 10:04:10 AM
The audience at my theater loved Babu Frik. Gotta admit he made me laugh a few times.

He was really funny. And so was C-3PO. Best use of him since Empire.

Totally agree. C3PO was genuinely funny and they used him well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 20, 2019, 11:07:18 AM
Not reading any posts until I can see ROS tomorrow.  Just popped back in to continue my episode recaps.

Ep. V - The Empire Strikes Back:

I mentioned that, with A New Hope, even though I liked it when I first saw it as a kid, I didn't love it.  The slow pacing just didn't hold my attention as thoroughly as my 7-year-old self needed in order to initially take it to that level.  That kind of changed in the months that followed.  All the toys, the novelization, the comics, and all the hype about it made me a fan more than seeing it at the drive-in when it was released.  And I was so excited when they began talking about a sequel.  Yet, for some reason, by the time they got around to releasing Empire, my fandom had waned a bit, and I never made it a priority to get to the theater to see it.  At 10 years old, it was a major endeavor to get to the movie theater myself, which involved walking a pretty long distance to get to a bus stop that would then take me the long bus ride to the nearest theater, and so on.  And my parents weren't into it, so it wasn't on their radar.  Beyond that, I can't really explain why, but it is what it is.  But I did of course see it eventually and rightly loved it.

Three things that worked:
-"I am your father" has to be #1.  I don't know what else needs to be said.
-Better pacing.  It just flows a lot better than Ep. IV.
-"Wait...so the good guys don't win???  What?  I'm so confused about how I feel!"  Yeah.  Perfect ending.
-Bonus (yes, I know this makes 4--it's MY post, so shut up):  Force choking the living daylights out of every officer who failed.  This set up so many awesome moments that made Vader's character and made this film as a whole.

Three things that didn't:
-Luke's training was too short.  It was, what, just a few days at most?  And then he is able to duel Vader and not die within seconds?  (yeah, I know Vader was just toying with him and intentionally not mopping the floor with him while he tried to turn him, but still)  As I've mentioned a bunch of times in connection with not only these films, but others as well, there's no reason why things can't just be stretched out over more time.  Just have sort of a montage or something that shows a longer passage of time without unnecessarily stretching out the film itself.  The precedent was unfortunately set here for things that should take a long time happening too instantaneously.  Not a huge deal, but an ongoing pet peeve that is more irritating than it should be because it is so easy to fix.
-C3PO as comic relief.  He was sort of that in IV, but to a much lesser extent.  And while this film wasn't over the top, it started to move that direction, which would later result in a lot of people rolling their eyes whenever 3PO was onscreen in other films that followed.
-I struggle to come up with a third.  Um...making Luke's fall through the ventilation shaft a bit more believable?  Maybe?  :dunno:

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Not much I can say, other than maybe the VERY minor tweaks suggested with Luke's training and 3PO not being silly.  This film is just great.  Very satisfying installment in the saga that left most of us eagerly anticipating what would happen next.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 20, 2019, 11:23:04 AM
I literally watched TESB last night with my daughter and wife.   I have to say we're in agreement here.  EASILY four or five times my daughter said "Wha?   They've only known each other/met/trained for like three days and they're already in love/best friends/Jedi Master?!?!"  (She also included the Han/Leia plot line in that.  She went from hating him to making out in the Millenium Falcon to "I love you!" in front of her dad in the space of like 18 hours.   

I am also not a fan of the humor.  I don't understand that blockbuster requirement to have catch phrases and to have side-splitting vaudevillian humor.  I guess it's me, but it almost always falls flat to me.  I don't usually laugh, and I don't think I've ever said "Hasta la vista, babay!" in real life.   (Exceptions:  "I know", or when Leia turns off 3PO in the Falcon when they're in the asteroid field.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on December 20, 2019, 11:35:59 AM
Ep. V - The Empire Strikes Back:
Three things that didn't:
-Luke's training was too short.  It was, what, just a few days at most?  And then he is able to duel Vader and not die within seconds?  (yeah, I know Vader was just toying with him and intentionally not mopping the floor with him while he tried to turn him, but still)  As I've mentioned a bunch of times in connection with not only these films, but others as well, there's no reason why things can't just be stretched out over more time.  Just have sort of a montage or something that shows a longer passage of time without unnecessarily stretching out the film itself.  The precedent was unfortunately set here for things that should take a long time happening too instantaneously.  Not a huge deal, but an ongoing pet peeve that is more irritating than it should be because it is so easy to fix.
-C3PO as comic relief.  He was sort of that in IV, but to a much lesser extent.  And while this film wasn't over the top, it started to move that direction, which would later result in a lot of people rolling their eyes whenever 3PO was onscreen in other films that followed.
-I struggle to come up with a third.  Um...making Luke's fall through the ventilation shaft a bit more believable?  Maybe?  :dunno:


I think the short scenes of Luke's training works to the story's advantage.  Yoda's telling him not to leave because his training is incomplete and he's not ready to face Vader.  Well duh, he's barely been there long enough to really learn anything at all, outside of moving a few stones.  ROTJ occurs later in time, giving Luke additional time to hone his Jedi skills, making his improvement much more believable.

His fall into the shaft, I attribute to him reaching out with the Force for guidance into a side-chute.  Either that or he was pulled by an air flow.  They were limited with the special effects of the time, which was usually a matte painting for that type of shot.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 20, 2019, 11:42:48 AM
@Stadler:

Just popped in to take a look at whether your post was in response to mine.  And it is!  :D 

The Han/Leia thing didn't phase me at all.  I mean, one interpretation, which is how I've pretty much always read it, is that she has already fallen for him at the beginning of the film.  But outward attitude is what it is for a variety of reasons.  You may select any number of these choices:
-She knows she has feelings for him, but is conflicted and doesn't know/understand how she feels.
-She doesn't think it is proper to outwardly express her feelings because of her position.
-She doesn't think it is proper to outwardly express her feelings because she also has some kind of feelings for Luke and doesn't yet know he is her brother, and feels conflicted about that.
-She and Han both have fiery personalities, so any feelings of affection are sometimes going to also manifest in emotional outbursts arising from friction.
-She doesn't know how to express her feelings because, despite being a very capable woman and leader, she just doesn't have a lot of experience with interpersonal intimacy.
-Other

Any of those, or any combination, easily fall away gradually through the events they experience together in the course of the film in a way I don't find unrealistic at all.  YMMV.

I think the short scenes of Luke's training works to the story's advantage.  Yoda's telling him not to leave because his training is incomplete and he's not ready to face Vader.  Well duh, he's barely been there long enough to really learn anything at all, outside of moving a few stones.  ROTJ occurs later in time, giving Luke additional time to hone his Jedi skills, making his improvement much more believable.

I get what you are saying.  But I still have a hard time overlooking it.  The thing is, he never goes back.  From the little time he got with Yoda in this film, he shouldn't really have anything to build on and hone to get him to the level he got to in ROTJ.  If he had gotten more here, it would be more believable that he could have continued to build on that on his own and increase his powers.  But when he leaves Yoda in Empire, he just doesn't know much.  If he had trained longer, he would at least have knowledge to build on to hone his skills.  :dunno:

His fall into the shaft, I attribute to him reaching out with the Force for guidance into a side-chute.  Either that or he was pulled by an air flow.  They were limited with the special effects of the time, which was usually a matte painting for that type of shot.

Yeah, I can buy that.  Still feels like a bit of a stretch.  But it wasn't a major issue for me anyway.  Like I said, I even struggle to come up with that as a real strong criticism.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2019, 12:49:35 PM
I feel like a lot of these issues....both minor and more substantial with the OT that Bosk is bringing up is exactly why I think this new trilogy is judged unfairly. Every movie in this saga (outside of R1 which is it's own story) has had some major issues in story telling. Those movies in the OT if you really dig into them really aren't all that great of movies. BUT....they work because at the time they were magical and for whatever reason just resonated and spawned an unmatched fandom.

For the most part I think the new trilogy films are actually better all around movies....but, they just haven't connected on the same level and in the same way the the OT did and I really think it has to do with the sheer amount and quality of content available today is far superior and challenging than vs what type and quality of content competition the OT faced.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zook on December 20, 2019, 01:41:02 PM
Baby Yoda has a new challanger:  Babu Frik


(https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/babu-frik-main_4da7f430.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C1281%2C720&width=560)


I loved that guy

No, that thing is ugly as fuck.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TioJorge on December 20, 2019, 01:49:47 PM
It was pretty dull. As an extremely casual SW fan, it was okay. If I were a diehard fan, I would be pretty disappointed. Granted, those frothy-mouthed diehards are pretty ludicrous for the most part, but I get it. It was predictable, poorly constructed, sometimes poorly edited, and mostly just a very overly-jam-packed (and yet weirdly simple, to what it all amounts to) kind of goodbye exposition. It felt like this wasn't so much as what should have been a great goodbye to the series, but a cleanup project that ended up leaving a decent amount of smudges behind.

I haven't rewatched any of the new trilogy since they came out and this one isn't any different. Really, I'm just looking forward to this being over with and now that they seem to have fulfilled at least attempting to tie a bow on things, they can move on to exploring some truly interesting worlds and new characters without being so limited by previous works. Hopefully they'll have an actual plan this time. That is really the only thing that irks me is that...it's a trilogy. It should've had a beginning, a middle, and an end planned out. It is sooooo painfully apparent that they did not have that. At all. That...is a bit odd, considering the material.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 20, 2019, 04:06:56 PM
It should've had a beginning, a middle, and an end planned out. It is sooooo painfully apparent that they did not have that. At all. That...is a bit odd, considering the material.
This seems to be the prevailing impression. People say George Lucas didn't have a plan either and his trilogy had flaws too, but honestly, 1) he came soooooo close to completely ruining the movies with his lack of planning, 2) if you know something is a potential problem, why not try and prevent it? just because George pulled it off once and barely got through with his legacy intact when he tried to endlessly retcon things, doesn't mean you should take thhe risk of not having a loose plan about what should happen over three movies. There should still be space for surprises, bold decisions about character interpretation and secondary characters and thrilling scenes, not directors pulling the meat of the story back and forth from one another.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on December 20, 2019, 05:15:57 PM
The originals can be watched over and over again. The prequels, need to be watched once a decade to remember why you don't watch them. Then there's these...the reboot, dumpster fire and the redemption of the dumpster fire. To compare this to Ruin's movie means it's an all day win but overall I liked it. Rey's character was so much better and she lost the pudge she had in the last movie looking pretty hot.  :tup Some scenes were a little too much and would have done better with a less is more approach but I can't complain at this point in time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 20, 2019, 05:38:15 PM
Holy shit Episode IX was FANTASTIC! Despite the huge mess that JJ was left with after the complete abomination that was episode VIII, he made it ALL work and delivered a fitting end to the entire Skywalker Saga.

Can't wait to see it again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on December 20, 2019, 05:45:40 PM
The originals can be watched over and over again. The prequels, need to be watched once a decade to remember why you don't watch them. Then there's these...the reboot, dumpster fire and the redemption of the dumpster fire. To compare this to Ruin's movie means it's an all day win but overall I liked it. Rey's character was so much better and she lost the pudge she had in the last movie looking pretty hot.  :tup Some scenes were a little too much and would have done better with a less is more approach but I can't complain at this point in time.

Well, at least the lead actress wasn't fat, I guess. That definitely would have ruined the film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 20, 2019, 06:08:01 PM
I feel like a lot of these issues....both minor and more substantial with the OT that Bosk is bringing up is exactly why I think this new trilogy is judged unfairly. Every movie in this saga (outside of R1 which is it's own story) has had some major issues in story telling. Those movies in the OT if you really dig into them really aren't all that great of movies. BUT....they work because at the time they were magical and for whatever reason just resonated and spawned an unmatched fandom.

For the most part I think the new trilogy films are actually better all around movies....but, they just haven't connected on the same level and in the same way the the OT did and I really think it has to do with the sheer amount and quality of content available today is far superior and challenging than vs what type and quality of content competition the OT faced.

I agree with this 100%! This is why I didn't rank any of the OT films in my top 3.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 20, 2019, 06:08:32 PM
Saw it this afternoon. Liked it a lot. Didn't love it, and it certainly had issues, but it was fun and delivered a suitable ending to the saga.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 20, 2019, 06:09:46 PM
Not reading any posts until I can see ROS tomorrow.  Just popped back in to continue my episode recaps.

Ep. V - The Empire Strikes Back:

I mentioned that, with A New Hope, even though I liked it when I first saw it as a kid, I didn't love it.  The slow pacing just didn't hold my attention as thoroughly as my 7-year-old self needed in order to initially take it to that level.

Three things that worked:
-"I am your father" has to be #1.  I don't know what else needs to be said.
-Better pacing.  It just flows a lot better than Ep. IV.
-"Wait...so the good guys don't win???  What?  I'm so confused about how I feel!"  Yeah.  Perfect ending.
-Bonus (yes, I know this makes 4--it's MY post, so shut up):  Force choking the living daylights out of every officer who failed.  This set up so many awesome moments that made Vader's character and made this film as a whole.

Three things that didn't:
-Luke's training was too short.  It was, what, just a few days at most?  And then he is able to duel Vader and not die within seconds?  (yeah, I know Vader was just toying with him and intentionally not mopping the floor with him while he tried to turn him, but still)  As I've mentioned a bunch of times in connection with not only these films, but others as well, there's no reason why things can't just be stretched out over more time.  Just have sort of a montage or something that shows a longer passage of time without unnecessarily stretching out the film itself.  The precedent was unfortunately set here for things that should take a long time happening too instantaneously.  Not a huge deal, but an ongoing pet peeve that is more irritating than it should be because it is so easy to fix.
-C3PO as comic relief.  He was sort of that in IV, but to a much lesser extent.  And while this film wasn't over the top, it started to move that direction, which would later result in a lot of people rolling their eyes whenever 3PO was onscreen in other films that followed.
-I struggle to come up with a third.  Um...making Luke's fall through the ventilation shaft a bit more believable?  Maybe?  :dunno:

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Not much I can say, other than maybe the VERY minor tweaks suggested with Luke's training and 3PO not being silly.  This film is just great.  Very satisfying installment in the saga that left most of us eagerly anticipating what would happen next.

-Same with me for ANH. Saw it in 97 when I was also seven at time and I didn't understand what all the fuss was about. At that point I had seen way more technically advanced movies, and the slow pacing also messed with me. Its a film I completely respect, but never got all that in to. Empire is where my love for SW began.

-Agree about Empire's pacing. Its always moving, and feels very differently than ANH tonally. Things seem a bit more serious and I like that. Its not as Flash Gordany, like "oh let's go rescue the princess and save the day" and all that. More like "damn. Shits on, I hope we don't die".

-And Just from a production standpoint, I love how Empire is lit. ANH is a little flat lighting wise, but Empire creates incredible atmosphere, especially when Luke/Vader have their fight in the Carbon freezing chamber. And the camera work is more interesting as well.

-I LOVE the imperial march that replaces Vader's theme from ANH. Really incredible and memorable. The ANH score is classic and memorable and Williams brought the hot fire once again for Empire. The music in the asteroid chase is one of my favorites.

-Totally agree about Luke's survival of the fall. It never made all that much sense to me, but everything else was so good and I'm so wrapped up in the moment, that I don't mind just going with it.

Behind The Godfather, and Terminator 2, Empire strikes back is my favorite movie. I love it a ton, and have watched it countless times.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on December 20, 2019, 06:48:31 PM
The originals can be watched over and over again. The prequels, need to be watched once a decade to remember why you don't watch them. Then there's these...the reboot, dumpster fire and the redemption of the dumpster fire. To compare this to Ruin's movie means it's an all day win but overall I liked it. Rey's character was so much better and she lost the pudge she had in the last movie looking pretty hot.  :tup Some scenes were a little too much and would have done better with a less is more approach but I can't complain at this point in time.

Well, at least the lead actress wasn't fat, I guess. That definitely would have ruined the film.

Way to be sensitive. I am simply saying she looked good. It's widely recognized that she handed Luke his light saber, he chucked it over his shoulder and she gained 15 lbs in 5 minutes.... Not fat shaming, just saying she looked hot in this film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 20, 2019, 06:57:47 PM
I agree. First time I saw TLJ, for the first 10 min I was just thinking “why is Jabba with Luke? Where did Rey go?”
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zook on December 20, 2019, 07:03:45 PM
Some actresses look better with a few extra pounds. See Mila Kunis in Oz, the great and Powerful or whatever it's called.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on December 20, 2019, 07:09:11 PM
The originals can be watched over and over again. The prequels, need to be watched once a decade to remember why you don't watch them. Then there's these...the reboot, dumpster fire and the redemption of the dumpster fire. To compare this to Ruin's movie means it's an all day win but overall I liked it. Rey's character was so much better and she lost the pudge she had in the last movie looking pretty hot.  :tup Some scenes were a little too much and would have done better with a less is more approach but I can't complain at this point in time.

Well, at least the lead actress wasn't fat, I guess. That definitely would have ruined the film.

Way to be sensitive. I am simply saying she looked good. It's widely recognized that she handed Luke his light saber, he chucked it over his shoulder and she gained 15 lbs in 5 minutes.... Not fat shaming, just saying she looked hot in this film.

You could call it being sensitive, I guess, if that's the way you look at it. I'd call it something else.

To be honest I'm kind of baffled that I'm even reading this kind of indifferently condescending comment. I'm hardly a crusader for body positivity or whatever the fuck, but come on. You could say you're not being violent while punching someone in the face, but I can't imagine their epidermis will care about your argument much one way or the other. Is it any wonder that women in the entertainment industry tend to develop complexes about their appearance and weight? Sorry chubby, you made it over 100 lbs, better cut back on the cheeseburgers so the men watching our movies will still think you're sexy. Have I gone insane? Have I entered some sort of alternate universe where this is somehow an acceptable thing to say?

Also, Adami, I love you. In measure proportional to your weight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on December 20, 2019, 07:30:30 PM
 :facepalm: anyway, back to Star Wars, I liked the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2019, 07:38:14 PM
Going to see it again at 10:30 with my brothers. There’s a couple scenes/conversations I know to pay a bit more attention to this time around.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TioJorge on December 20, 2019, 07:59:50 PM
:facepalm: anyway, back to Star Wars, I liked the movie.

...This ^^^ ... was the whole point. Your random comment about her weight or looking good later on (and to your standards) doesn't really have any bearing on anything regarding the movie. Ironically, you yourself pointed it out with this post after the fact. Hence, the spiral after you said what you initially said; it just shouldn't have been said at all.

I just had to point this out because it was too beautiful of a full circle.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 21, 2019, 06:32:37 AM
I saw ROS last night. Because I had read some not-too-flattering reviews and heard some bad word of mouth, I went in with very low expectations. Because of that, I ended up enjoying the movie a lot more than I predicted. In my opinion, it has some great moments and cool ideas. Unfortunately, as basically everyone has said, it also moves at a pace so fast that it makes "breakneck" look slow. It kind of seems as though J.J. simply condensed his versions of VIII and IX into a single movie. And while I wouldn't say that J.J. gave Rian Johnson an outright middle finger, he certainly started rolling the middle finger up like Starlord in Guardians of the Galaxy, at least.  :lol But overall, I'd say that I essentially enjoyed the movie for what it is and will watch it again. Time now to move on from Star Wars after months of video games, television episodes, and movies. :corn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 21, 2019, 06:53:43 AM
It kind of seems as though J.J. simply condensed his versions of VIII and IX into a single movie.
I feel the same way. I hope Disney learned their lesson that if they're planning a trilogy, the same writer or writing team should outline the whole trilogy before they get started.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 21, 2019, 08:19:19 AM
So finished TLJ last night before I go see TROS in like 5 hours.

I dunno man, I think I changed my opinion on this one too. It helped already knowing what was going to happen. It helps lower the disappointment if it's not actively disappointing you the way it does the first time around. This movie is a real mess though. It has some of the best moments in the trilogy (thus far) but the rest of the movie is just not well written. I actually REALLY like a lot of the ideas the movie was attempting, but the execution just mostly fell short. The challenging of good vs bad, the idea of the force being held back by the Jedi religion, etc. All of it are great ideas, but they could have been done better.

So the things I really liked....
- Anything with Kylo Ren. This guy is just fantastic as a character, and thus far the only one with a well written actual personality
- Yoda. Nice to see a return to the grumpy rambunctious Yoda from Empire.
- Most of Luke's arc. I still do NOT like the way they handled the first part of his arc, but the second part was fantastic.
- The fight scenes are great
- The lightspeed destruction was breathtaking
- Luke seeing R2 again was so nice
- Luke vs Kylo at the end. Just brilliant
- The acting, in general, was lovely. I still maintain that the acting is the only thing making Rey, Poe and Finn interesting. They aren't super well written, but those actors are bringing them to life.


Things I didn't like? Too many to name, but the comedy just didn't really work in this film. The whole intro feels like a bad Keystone Cops routine and was awful. The plot of just staying out of range was dumb as well. The whole casino planet thing was stupid. Luke's morning routine was terrible. The Porgs are dumb, sorry.

Also, since I JUST rewatched it, I was able to watch that whole bit about keeping the mission secret....and yea, sorry it doesn't hold up. There is NO reason that plan needed to be a secret. None what so ever. And then Poe leads a god damn Coup.....and they STILL don't tell them the plan. They could have....easily.....when Poe turned on them, but nope. They just stayed quiet. Then when Dern was talking to Fisher, it became very clear that the real reason it was kept a secret was because the writer of the script wanted to teach Poe a life lesson. Sorry, that's not good. It's paper thin and terribly done.

A lot of this movie felt like half-baked ideas.

So thus far TFA feels like extremely well executed bad ideas, and TLJ feels like terribly executed interesting ideas.

I might, now, prefer TLJ to TFA, but only because at least TLJ is trying to do something other than say "HEY GUYS REMEMBER STAR WARS?!?!? ISN"T IT AWESOME?!?"

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 21, 2019, 08:54:09 AM
After a second watch and paying attention to some specific moments I can say that I’m pretty satisfied with how it all went down. Still a very packed movie but all in all my second viewing did nothing but strengthen the positives for me and weaken the negatives.

I have a couple more observations but am out of pocket all day and am scared I’ll screw up the small font attempt and spoil stuff. So.....until later.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 21, 2019, 09:30:05 AM
No fat-shaming (I actually am attracted to full-figured women) or "#MeToo" nonsense, but - having only seen TFA - I just don't find Rey attractive at all. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MinistroRaven on December 21, 2019, 04:53:46 PM
No fat-shaming (I actually am attracted to full-figured women) or "#MeToo" nonsense, but - having only seen TFA - I just don't find Rey attractive at all.

Because probably you don;t follow her on her SM (which I do)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 21, 2019, 05:06:01 PM
Saw Star Wars: The Rise of Fan Service.


Wow. That’s a lot of movie. Really dumb. Really really dumb. Second half is pretty enjoyable but still super dumb. I’ll say more later. Gotta process the movies I just saw.

Though I will say this; this movie has what...four writers? It feels like they each handed Disney a different script and Disney said “yes”.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 21, 2019, 05:10:16 PM
Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 21, 2019, 05:14:51 PM
Adam Driver is kind of ugly.

I say that as a fellow Ugly Man.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 21, 2019, 05:15:38 PM
Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.

I’m just glad Adam Driver lost some weight since TLJ. Eesh.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 21, 2019, 05:43:58 PM
Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.

I'm not gay, but for Oscar Isaac I might consider it  ;)

Its amazing that the original plan was to kill him off quickly in Force Awakens. What a waste that would have been.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 21, 2019, 07:45:36 PM
It looks like the projected weekend box office numbers are $190-195 million. Which is below both the previous two episodes. I can't say I'm surprised by the numbers given how Solo went plus the fan backlash of TLJ.

I'm guessing it will end up between Rogue One and TLJ. Maybe closer to TLJ.

I don't know what more movies Lucasfilm has planned for. The D&D trilogy is gone, not sure about the Rian Johnson trilogy if that is still going to happen, I think they want to see how TROS does before pushing that ahead.

I do hope we get that Kevin Fiege SW movie sooner rather than later, with his track record in Marvel I get the feeling he can plug the right people in to make an interesting movie in the SW universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2019, 08:05:12 PM
Saw it this afternoon.  Loved it!  Fantastic finale to the Skywalker saga.  More later, but suffice to say I was HIGHLY satisfied with this film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 21, 2019, 08:15:02 PM
Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.

I’m just glad Adam Driver lost some weight since TLJ. Eesh.

I fucking love you.  :heart
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 21, 2019, 08:19:17 PM
You might not after what I write about the film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 21, 2019, 08:58:08 PM
A lot of the answers to questions raised by this film... don't exist. It's "whatever, don't think about it." The worst kind of answer.

A friend of mine just saw the movie and said he thought the ending would've been better if Palpatine suddenly made a time warp and sent Rey back in time (piggybacking on a time travel theory I pitched him), ultimately becoming Shmi Skywalker, because it would've given Rey an actual connection to the real Skywalkers and a better, stronger connection to Kylo Ren in the long run. I'm starting to think that would be awesome, as paradoxical as it is  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 21, 2019, 09:06:57 PM
On second thought, I’m going to limit my criticisms of the movie. I know this franchise is extremely special to a lot of people and a good number of people love these new films and loved TROS. I had a guy a row ahead of me, probably in his mid to late 40s, being like a kid going to Disneyland for the first time. He was loving every second of it. I could not connect with that all, but I have felt that way about other things. Because of that, I would be happy to discuss the movie, but I have no desire to try to convince someone it wasn’t good or try to diminish their enjoyment at all. So I’ll add in here or there but I won’t argue the negatives much.

Glad people loved it. Really.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 21, 2019, 09:10:57 PM
Let it fly man, I love a good rant, especially a well spoken one.


And I know what you mean about it being so special to people, the guy next to me was trying to predict the dialogue throughout the film. My kid is one of those, though she's a big enough geek to be able to enjoy it while being objective enough with her criticisms. Her favorite thing was that they finally confirmed that Leia went through the Jedi training, Carrie Fisher is a straight up idol to her so that was very important.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 21, 2019, 09:39:16 PM
Mike Portnoy posted a review  (https://letterboxd.com/portnoy420/film/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker/)and he rated it 3.5/5 and said he loved it.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 22, 2019, 09:20:45 AM
No fat-shaming (I actually am attracted to full-figured women) or "#MeToo" nonsense, but - having only seen TFA - I just don't find Rey attractive at all.

Because probably you don;t follow her on her SM (which I do)

If you've read ANY of my posts around, I don't really follow ANYONE on SM.  :).   

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 22, 2019, 09:22:10 AM
Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.

I definitely see Oscar Isaac, I can potentially see John Boyega... but Adam Driver is an acquired taste.  Before "#MeToo" he might have been described as "having a nice personality".  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 22, 2019, 09:42:29 AM
Rey is a babe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: King Postwhore on December 22, 2019, 11:53:32 AM
Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.

Fine pieces of space ass.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 22, 2019, 01:18:22 PM
Rewatched Rogue One today. What a fantastic movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 22, 2019, 02:02:59 PM
Saw it this afternoon.  Loved it!  Fantastic finale to the Skywalker saga.  More later, but suffice to say I was HIGHLY satisfied with this film.

I saw it Friday evening.  This is my basic feeling, but there was a LOT going on, and I want to see it again.

Also, Rey is hot (most of the time), and I really wanted to see Zora (or whatever her name was) without her helmet on.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on December 22, 2019, 02:56:13 PM
I saw the movie Thursday night.  My initial feel for the movie is pretty much how I left the theater after The Last Jedi...  Disappointed.

Not complaining, it's just a movie, and the fact that Star Wars is still active is enough to keep me content.  But I really didn't care for where the story went.  I didn't really care for killing off Snoke in The Last Jedi when they could have developed him further in the following movie.  And that feeling for me was confirmed with the new movie.  I think bringing back Palpatine was kind of dumb and I think would have been better if they would have just developed the Snoke story further instead.  I don't think anything in this statement is a spoiler, it's no surprise that Palps was coming back.

I probably had too high expectations going in.  The Force Awakens for me was incredible, so I assumed under the same director that I'd like the new one a lot also.  I will see again in a couple weeks.  I'm assuming I'll like it more, once I've shed the bad expectations and can see it a bit more objectively.  Over time, though, my first impression of the Last Jedi didn't change much.  I like the movie and have seen it several times.  It still ranks way lower than The Force Awakens though.

My current rating of the  SW episodic movies (best to least best):  New Hope, Force Awakens, Return of Jedi, Empire, Revenge of Sith, Last Jedi tie with Rise of Skywalker, Attack of the Clones, Phantom Menace.

I will say, the good parts of the movie were VERY good.  There were just a lot of negatives that I won't get into specifics of for spoiler sake.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 22, 2019, 03:36:37 PM
Couple observation after my second watch

Ben / Kylo’s character is the best of the trilogy….and I’ll go as far as to say the best of the (9) films. Adam Driver does an incredible job with this character, the arc and path he takes is the most complete of the series. I know this trilogy has been kind of billed as Rey’s and her being a Jedi and all but IMO this trilogy is about the Redemption of Ben Solo after he had been manipulated by the dark side for his power.

 I loved The scene when Ben meets up with Rey in the Sith throne room….when Rey looks over to see the Imperial Guard be killed from behind revealing Ben Solo standing there might be my favorite scene of the trilogy. I literally had chills.

Kylo Ren is clearly more educated in the Force than most other force using characters we’ve seen. He was able to determine before the Emperor and Snoke that he and Rey were binate in the force and exploit it. He displayed this also physically when he was challenging Rey with the transport craft and also in their final dual on the Death Star debris….and he matched her note for note in any ‘trick’ she thought she had and was even able to learn from her with the transference of life force. He had her whipped….if not for Leia it’d have been interesting to see if he would have actually killed Rey.

In that fight it was apparent that the harder and more angry Rey got the ‘weaker’ she became. She had no answer to Kylo in that saber duel.
After the first watch I thought to myself that Rey should have died at the end and Ben should have survived….to be the ‘last Skywalker’ But, after watching that scene again when she dies….then Ben makes his way out of that pit to embrace her…..when he does hold her Driver does a great job with his expression to where you could ‘see’ Ben making the decision to give the rest of his life ‘force’ to Rey so she could live. I’m wondering if in that moment that despite having returned to the light Ben knew that he’d always be a conflicted person and that Rey ‘deserved’ to live….that he needed to atone in some way for his actions of the past few years.

I found Rey’s new light saber color to be interesting. That is the color that the Jedi Temple Guard use. Also. Their sabers are typically dual blade and if you take a peek at that hilt it mirrors itself with the bottom of the handle looking the same as the top….yet the very end is left off camera.
I’m wondering if this means Rey is setting up another temple…..is this alluding to future movies with Rey? Or if they’re just trolling us.

I’m assuming that Finn was trying to tell Rey the whole time that he has been growing in the force somehow? It was hinted at like a hundred times and that’s a massive fail on their part by putting that out there so many times and then…..nothing? Just poor storytelling there.

I’d have been fine with Chewie blowing up in the transport. One of my issues is that no major character died. Finn should have bit it while on the blown up command ship at the end or Poe should have been blown out of the sky….or keep Chewie dead. Someone needed to croak.

I will also say that I think that this movie should have been Episode 8….with a few tweaks and tinkering here and there to still give Luke his send off….but it’d have been neat to see Rey and Ben reach this conclusion in the end of 8….that Rey turns Ben and he and her then battle Darth Plageus in the final film? That he’d cheated death all this time and been the puppet master so to speak ever since Palpatines rise to power….then the two binate force users would have had to combine their strengths to beat the ultimate Sith?

As has been mentioned a hundred times….Disney’s failure was that they did not have a cohesive plan for these three movies and that’s unforgivable.
While I certainly recognize there were some flaws with this film and the trilogy in general….I still really like them all as a whole. I appreciate getting to see this story unfold and all in all I think it was wildly entertaining and I’m not too upset with the shortcomings.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 22, 2019, 05:45:56 PM
Saw it this afternoon.  Loved it!  Fantastic finale to the Skywalker saga.  More later, but suffice to say I was HIGHLY satisfied with this film.

I saw it Friday evening.  This is my basic feeling, but there was a LOT going on, and I want to see it again.

Also, Rey is hot (most of the time), and I really wanted to see Zora (or whatever her name was) without her helmet on.

This is going to sound weird, but what the hell. It’s the internet, and we just had a conversation about Rey being pudgy, so what I’m about to say actually isn’t that strange by comparison. :lol

One thing I really appreciated about IX is how it actually had a decent amount of romance. VIII obviously had Finn and Rose, and some Reylo, but IX focuses more on those kinds of relationships. That kind of thing makes the characters feel a bit more human to me, and makes the story feel a bit more adult, even though it is at its heart meant for kids. I dunno... Just my two cents I guess.

Oh, and I concur that Rey was smokin’ in this movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 23, 2019, 07:09:27 AM
Just venting a little: don't get me wrong, I think it's great if people think this is fantastic, I'm happy they're enjoying it because whatever makes you happy in this messed up world is a good thing, but at the same time I have a hard time juxtaposing that view with a critical analysis of the movies. People have also analyzed the original trilogy to the point that there's nothing else to say about them, so the idea that we can't dig in deep to this trilogy and thoroughly annihilate its weaknesses the same way we do the prequels just rubs me the wrong way. (EDIT: Sorry, this last part implies I'm talking to people here, and I'm actually not, just referring to a lot of the discourse I've seen about the film and the trilogy over the Internet this weekend. Seems like Star Wars is a sacred cow to some people and just gets a pass for being Star Wars no matter how tenuously the plot is held together.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 23, 2019, 07:33:00 AM
I'm going again on Thursday in the nice theater. I'll post my rankings again after the second viewing.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 23, 2019, 07:36:38 AM
I personally have no issues eviscerating the new trilogy, countless video reviews from the usual suspects (RLM,etc..) have gone and done so. I agree these movies are flawed and can be torn apart quite easily just like the prequels..

My personal take on the new trilogy is that I much prefer it to the prequels warts and all, the prequels had some great bits but overall was lacking. The OT was a product of its time, sure it has flaws but it had a cultural impact which the other two trilogies would probably never get to have.

I like the Star wars world, I'm not blinded by the issues, I'm just able to enjoy them with a sort of disconnect that some don't have. I went to TROS with some friends (two brothers) who have been life long hardcore SW fans since the beginning. One brother absolutely hated it and continues to send me tweets and articles and videos that demolish the entire new trilogy on a daily basis, the other brother was like me, enjoyed it a ton, acknowledges the flaws, takes it for what it is and goes by his day.

I've given up watching all these video reviews because they are all blending in to be the same now. 10 years back I found them a fun novelty to watch because as an all out nerd they could go all in and dissect it frame by frame and give a very detailed opinion on why they didn't work or did.

I don't really care about that anymore. There is soo much entertainment out there, I don't do the hyper focused viewing and analysis anymore, watch a show/movie, enjoy it/hate it, move on..

That's my take on these things, different strokes for different folks and all that jazz...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 23, 2019, 08:04:19 AM
A few things (and not meant to go after Gary, but since he raised some good points that I want to push back on, I'm quoting his post in particular):

1.  This:
I’m assuming that Finn was trying to tell Rey the whole time that he has been growing in the force somehow? It was hinted at like a hundred times and that’s a massive fail on their part by putting that out there so many times and then…..nothing? Just poor storytelling there.

Not sure what he was trying to tell her.  Maybe it was that he had feelings for her (I kinda thought that at a few points in time).  Dunno.  But more to the point, I have no idea how that could possibly be considered "poor storytelling."  A lot of times in life, we really want to tell somebody something, and for any of a number of reasons, we don't get around to it.  Not everything needs a payoff.  Real life isn't poor storytelling.

2.  This:
One of my issues is that no major character died. [/size]

Uh...Kylo Ren?  Sheev freakin' Palpatine?

3.  "Flaws"/"shortcomings":  I don't see any.  I just don't.  And I don't get the obsession with pointing out perceived "flaws" or "shortcomings" in films nowadays.  The fact that one might not like how a particular film went does not mean that it is "flawed."  I disagree with some of the creative decisions made in quite a few of the SW films. That doesn't mean they are flawed.  I personally might just have liked them better if different decisions were made.  That said, I really can't pick apart much, if anything, about this one.  Other than my recurring "instantaneous travel" pet peeve, I can't really find anything to criticize.

4.  This wasn't brought up by anybody.  I just need to say it.  C3PO.  What they (primarily, Lucas) have done with the character up to this point has annoyed me to no end and almost put him on par with Jar-Jar to me.  They completely redeemed him in this installment.  I loved pretty much everything they did with him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 23, 2019, 08:08:05 AM
How do you do tiny font here? I tried to do it in the preview window but all I can do is go down to size 8.

Bosk, about 4. I completely agree and it was my exact sentiment leaving the theater.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 23, 2019, 08:10:09 AM
faizoff, just replace the number. Instead of 8, make it 1 through 7.

SPOILERS, but bosk's post basically triggered me, sorry  :lol

I find it a rather bold claim to say you don't see ANY shortcomings or flaws. Like, really? This movie invalidates Vader's sacrifice. It makes literally no sense with respect to anything about Palpatine. This is exactly what I was referring to: "The fact that one might not like how a particular film went does not mean that it is flawed." Well, yes, it DOES, if you take these events in the context of the 9-part Skywalker saga and the logic that is established with those films. Again to the point I raised, this idea that criticism of this film is unwarranted, I just don't understand that. There are things very clearly done and said in this film that don't line up with things established in The Last Jedi or the original trilogy *and* there are entire things that go undeveloped throughout the entire trilogy (Finn had no arc in this movie, the Knights of Ren were just another group of bad guys to get mowed down with no expansion on the reason for their organization being a thing, Palpatine wanting his granddaughter to be Empress Palpatine but he didn't want his son or his daughter in law to be emperor/empress because...?? etc.)

This is a 9-part story. The string of events has to make sense. The things they include need to be relevant to the plot or characters somehow. They keep introducing things in the third movie without giving them time to breathe or develop or even give time for the stuff that was established in the other 2 movies to grow. It's not "nitpicking" if the very events that take place don't make sense. Just because it's a work of fiction doesn't mean we cannot critically analyze what is happening with the characters and setting. We do it with Shakespeare in academia, we do it with all kinds of literature and fictional works, we spent a decade doing it with Game of Thrones and that's the entire justification for why seasons 7 and 8 aren't good - so why is Star Wars immune from the same analysis and in-depth discussion?

EDIT: OMG, I did it. I said I was gonna hold off for a few days and I couldn't resist. I'm sorry.  :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 23, 2019, 08:27:23 AM
Critical analysis is fine and often rewarding.  Nitpicking is, to me, pointless, unrewarding, and pointless (repeated to emphasize the pointlessness of this pointlessness to the point of being utterly devoid of point, and thus, doubly pointless).  In this day and age where everyone thinks they are a critic and that every opinion is equally valid, a lot of people don't really understand the difference between the two.  Star Wars isn't "immune" from anything.  But for the most part, I find it a waste of time to dwell on perceived "negatives" because, (1) there aren't any, and (2) it is, again, pointless.  I'm not saying anyone else can't.  But using your post as an example, the things you call "flaws" don't resonate with me even a little bit as something that could be called a "flaw."  For example, there precisely zero invalidation of Vader's sacrifice in this film (or the trilogy).  In fact, I find that this film took HUGE strides to reinforce both the supreme evil of Vader AND his sacrifice, both of which the PT undermined in favor of a different take on Vader.  And on and on.

And for what it's worth, I also find "this triggered me" disclaimers to be pretty pointless.  "Triggered" seems to be an all-too-easy waiving away of rules of social decorum because "this annoyed me, so I don't have to be polite and play nice." 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 23, 2019, 08:29:34 AM
How do you do tiny font here? I tried to do it in the preview window but all I can do is go down to size 8.

If you use the "reply" button rather than the "quick reply" box, you will see a font change button.  Or you can do it manually by using codes.  You need the
Code: [Select]
[size=X][/size] tags, with the "X" being your font size.  I used "3" because that's what Gary used in the post I was quoting, although I typically use "1" for spoilers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 23, 2019, 08:31:13 AM
Just venting a little: don't get me wrong, I think it's great if people think this is fantastic, I'm happy they're enjoying it because whatever makes you happy in this messed up world is a good thing, but at the same time I have a hard time juxtaposing that view with a critical analysis of the movies. People have also analyzed the original trilogy to the point that there's nothing else to say about them, so the idea that we can't dig in deep to this trilogy and thoroughly annihilate its weaknesses the same way we do the prequels just rubs me the wrong way. (EDIT: Sorry, this last part implies I'm talking to people here, and I'm actually not, just referring to a lot of the discourse I've seen about the film and the trilogy over the Internet this weekend. Seems like Star Wars is a sacred cow to some people and just gets a pass for being Star Wars no matter how tenuously the plot is held together.)

My personal opinion here is that however deeply one wants to dive into the flaws, absolutely go for it, just keep it consistent across the films. And I think that's pretty much what you're saying too (correct me if I'm wrong). So if you're one of those people who tore apart every aspect of the prequels, do the same to the original trilogy and sequels. Or if you want to tear apart the sequels, then apply the same logic to the other two trilogies.

I'm not saying that every movie is equal. I'm just saying that the only legitimate way to know which movies are good versus bad is to approach them with the same-sized magnifying glass. Over the past few years, I've noticed so many people who essentially judge the originals from 30,000 feet up while dissecting the other movies with a microscope. That kind of thing makes it really hard to have a conversation about Star Wars, IMO.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 23, 2019, 08:39:03 AM
Just venting a little: don't get me wrong, I think it's great if people think this is fantastic, I'm happy they're enjoying it because whatever makes you happy in this messed up world is a good thing, but at the same time I have a hard time juxtaposing that view with a critical analysis of the movies. People have also analyzed the original trilogy to the point that there's nothing else to say about them, so the idea that we can't dig in deep to this trilogy and thoroughly annihilate its weaknesses the same way we do the prequels just rubs me the wrong way. (EDIT: Sorry, this last part implies I'm talking to people here, and I'm actually not, just referring to a lot of the discourse I've seen about the film and the trilogy over the Internet this weekend. Seems like Star Wars is a sacred cow to some people and just gets a pass for being Star Wars no matter how tenuously the plot is held together.)

My personal opinion here is that however deeply one wants to dive into the flaws, absolutely go for it, just keep it consistent across the films. And I think that's pretty much what you're saying too (correct me if I'm wrong). So if you're one of those people who tore apart every aspect of the prequels, do the same to the original trilogy and sequels. Or if you want to tear apart the sequels, then apply the same logic to the other two trilogies.

I'm not saying that every movie is equal. I'm just saying that the only legitimate way to know which movies are good versus bad is to approach them with the same-sized magnifying glass. Over the past few years, I've noticed so many people who essentially judge the originals from 30,000 feet up while dissecting the other movies with a microscope. That kind of thing makes it really hard to have a conversation about Star Wars, IMO.

Yeah. My problems with this franchise used to be systemic, coming from the original trilogy, but this new trilogy has no excuse for being this poorly planned, which is a shame because if they slowed down on this new trilogy instead of having to pump them out every 2 years, they could've made it consistent. So it does bug me when I look at a film, see these issues, and then the response is either 1) "I don't see any flaws, nothing wrong here" and/or 2) criticism = nitpicking. I dunno. It's not nitpicking to me, these are problems the writers shouldn't have swept under the rug. That's why bosk's reply bothers me. I see these issues as very important to the structure and cohesiveness of the franchise. These are not small things I'm complaining about. I'm not whining about Babu Frik, I'm whining about the biggest evil in the film canon making a reprisal "just because." How that is acceptable but questioning the logic behind the return isn't... *shrug*
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 23, 2019, 08:44:42 AM
One thing I will say is that I was pleasantly surprised by Billy Dee Williams' presence (not his role).

I saw some interviews with him recently and he appeared to be about 10% awake, and about 90% high. So I was really nervous how he's appear on screen. But that man was just oozing charisma and charm. I didn't think he still had it in him and I was proven wrong.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 23, 2019, 08:47:43 AM
Critical analysis is fine and often rewarding.  Nitpicking is, to me, pointless, unrewarding, and pointless (repeated to emphasize the pointlessness of this pointlessness to the point of being utterly devoid of point, and thus, doubly pointless).  In this day and age where everyone thinks they are a critic and that every opinion is equally valid, a lot of people don't really understand the difference between the two.  Star Wars isn't "immune" from anything. 

Apologies for the double post, but I want to give a big +1 to this. True critical analysis (emphasis on the word "analysis") can be incredibly interesting. But to me, ripping apart every aspect of something is not interesting and falls short of true analysis, which should also look for the good in things. Even worse, selectively ripping apart some movies while treating others with kid gloves is kind of dishonest (not criticizing anyone here, but moreso some general trends I've seen). My personal philosophy - which I am not trying to convert people to - is that life is too short and my default approach is to try and enjoy things for what they are.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 23, 2019, 08:52:35 AM
Critical analysis is fine and often rewarding.  Nitpicking is, to me, pointless, unrewarding, and pointless (repeated to emphasize the pointlessness of this pointlessness to the point of being utterly devoid of point, and thus, doubly pointless).  In this day and age where everyone thinks they are a critic and that every opinion is equally valid, a lot of people don't really understand the difference between the two.  Star Wars isn't "immune" from anything. 

Apologies for the double post, but I want to give a big +1 to this. True critical analysis (emphasis on the word "analysis") can be incredibly interesting. But to me, ripping apart every aspect of something is not interesting and falls short of true analysis, which should also look for the good in things. Even worse, selectively ripping apart some movies while treating others with kid gloves is kind of dishonest (not criticizing anyone here, but moreso some general trends I've seen). My personal philosophy - which I am not trying to convert people to - is that life is too short and my default approach is to try and enjoy things for what they are.

I'm going to push back just slightly on this, though not completely. I don't think any analyses should be LOOKING for good things, or bad things. They should just be discussing what they see. They should be pointing the good things if they agreed with them, but not looking for something good just because they saw something bad. Not everything has to be equal in what they dislike vs what they like. Though rarely have I seen a film where I didn't like ANYTHING.

And second, if someone is reviewing a film (say TROS) then they don't have to mention A New Hope or Empire because they're not reviewing those films at that moment. So people should be free to discuss whatever film they want and not feel obligated to mention other films to try to even the score. Though if they go out of their way to say "TROS IS PURE TRASH AND A NEW HOPE IS FLAWLESS" then yea, you'd be right.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 23, 2019, 08:55:25 AM
While I have my issues with the sequel trilogy and TFA is the only one out of the 3 that I really liked (i thought TLJ was disappointing and RoS was alright) I think the whole standpoint of "The Emperor being back invalidates Anakin being the one and ruins the ending of episode 6" is just wrong to begin with. Anakin DID bring balance to the force. His sacrifice and turn at the end of episode 6 meant ~30 years of peace across the galaxy and nothing in RoS takes away from that. The fact that over 3 decades later another conflict happened, that's just how things are.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 23, 2019, 08:58:24 AM
EDIT: nevermind, guess I'm just pissing on the parade. Seems like I'm the only one who enjoys dissecting this stuff and pointing out why I feel they've done such a disservice to this saga. Sorry

Marvel can put out 23 movies in 10 years, make them all very cohesive and logical. Star Wars can't even do 3 cohesive films in 6 years but they get a pass. ight
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 23, 2019, 09:08:57 AM
Critical analysis is fine and often rewarding.  Nitpicking is, to me, pointless, unrewarding, and pointless (repeated to emphasize the pointlessness of this pointlessness to the point of being utterly devoid of point, and thus, doubly pointless).  In this day and age where everyone thinks they are a critic and that every opinion is equally valid, a lot of people don't really understand the difference between the two.  Star Wars isn't "immune" from anything. 

Apologies for the double post, but I want to give a big +1 to this. True critical analysis (emphasis on the word "analysis") can be incredibly interesting. But to me, ripping apart every aspect of something is not interesting and falls short of true analysis, which should also look for the good in things. Even worse, selectively ripping apart some movies while treating others with kid gloves is kind of dishonest (not criticizing anyone here, but moreso some general trends I've seen). My personal philosophy - which I am not trying to convert people to - is that life is too short and my default approach is to try and enjoy things for what they are.

I'm going to push back just slightly on this, though not completely. I don't think any analyses should be LOOKING for good things, or bad things. They should just be discussing what they see. They should be pointing the good things if they agreed with them, but not looking for something good just because they saw something bad. Not everything has to be equal in what they dislike vs what they like. Though rarely have I seen a film where I didn't like ANYTHING.

And second, if someone is reviewing a film (say TROS) then they don't have to mention A New Hope or Empire because they're not reviewing those films at that moment. So people should be free to discuss whatever film they want and not feel obligated to mention other films to try to even the score. Though if they go out of their way to say "TROS IS PURE TRASH AND A NEW HOPE IS FLAWLESS" then yea, you'd be right.

All 100% fair points. Instead of saying that film analysis should look for the good in things, it is probably more accurate to say that, in my opinion, film analysis should at least try to understand what the movie is trying to accomplish. It should be open to good or bad explanations, and if the ultimate conclusion is that a film is absolute crud, then so be it. As I mentioned earlier, not all movies are equal. But analysis should not just be fishing for problems.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 23, 2019, 09:12:26 AM
On that we agree completely.

The actual critical analyses I've watched of the film, and I only stick to a select few on youtube that I trust, have all been very fair. I even disagreed with them about a few negatives, but they were all very fair and balanced, even if their ultimate conclusion was WAY more negative than positive.

Unfortunately everyone thinks they're a legit critic. So you'll get people destroying the film, poorly, and you'll get people praising the film...poorly. I just ignore most of those people and therefore don't get bothered by it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 23, 2019, 09:23:03 AM
With most films or series that I like I notice that I really latch on to the aspects that I really enjoy(ed) and then tend to ignore and discount the stuff that doesn't work. I've done that with this trilogy for sure. I just think TFA and the TROS were really fun films to watch and had a lot of cool things happen and I loved that TLJ was an attempt at a real 'movie' so to speak....and I personally like what was done with Luke's arc in it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 23, 2019, 09:23:51 AM
nevermind, guess I'm just pissing on the parade.

Eh, I just take it as a sign that you are properly hydrated.  :dunno:  :lol  :hearts:

Marvel can put out 23 movies in 10 years, make them all very cohesive and logical. Star Wars can't even do 3 cohesive films in 6 years but they get a pass. ight

I think these three films are plenty cohesive.

But funny that you make the Marvel comparison, because I was just thinking about that a little while ago as I was driving in to work this morning and thinking back on the weekend and, specifically, seeing the movie.  I think your point is simultaneously a great observation and a terrible comparison.  And I say the latter simply because what the MCU managed to achieve is unprecedented.  Those managing other film universes can and should absolutely aspire to that.  But I think drawing comparisons after the fact and criticizing other film franchises for failing to reach that lofty height is simply missing just HOW lofty a height that is. 

(And probably doesn't need to be mentioned, but I'll throw it out there anyway:  As much as I love the MCU as a whole to date, there were definitely some cracks beginning to show late last phase and all throughout this phase in terms of the overall cohesiveness.  Those with a critical eye, myself included, have to sometimes actively ignore a few inconsistencies in timeline, character, and theme.  But since the whole thing was still done SO overwhelmingly well, it's not hard to overlook those little things.  But all I'm really trying to say is, as phenominal as the MCU has been on that point, it isn't  "perfect" at all.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 23, 2019, 09:26:23 AM
Never said it was perfect, but they don't have the fundamental structural and logical issues that this trilogy does, not even close, and the point was that they managed to pull off, by and large with very few hitches, and it was indeed unprecedented, and they managed to do it multiple times a year, linking multiple films and story arcs together. This trilogy failed on most of those fronts in my eyes.

Freaking cool visuals though, hot damn. And best use of the Force ever. More cool stuff done with it than in any other film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 23, 2019, 09:29:00 AM
A few things (and not meant to go after Gary, but since he raised some good points that I want to push back on, I'm quoting his post in particular):

1.  This:
I’m assuming that Finn was trying to tell Rey the whole time that he has been growing in the force somehow? It was hinted at like a hundred times and that’s a massive fail on their part by putting that out there so many times and then…..nothing? Just poor storytelling there.

Not sure what he was trying to tell her.  Maybe it was that he had feelings for her (I kinda thought that at a few points in time).  Dunno.  But more to the point, I have no idea how that could possibly be considered "poor storytelling."  A lot of times in life, we really want to tell somebody something, and for any of a number of reasons, we don't get around to it.  Not everything needs a payoff.  Real life isn't poor storytelling.

2.  This:
One of my issues is that no major character died. [/size]

Uh...Kylo Ren?  Sheev freakin' Palpatine?

Dude....I have no idea what was wrong with my Brain  :lol   Of course Kylo Ren died....not really a physical death but even so then Ben died.....so yeah....that was a major character. Palpatine while a 'major' character was a foregone conclusion that he'd die. I should have prefaced it by saying one of Poe, Finn or Chewie should have died. Maybe not 'should' have but it'd have been a statement had one of them died. Anyway......

As far as the Finn 'payoff' about what he was trying to say. I understand where you're coming from....I just think they made SUCH a big deal about it in the movie by having many scenes dedicated to him alluding to Rey and others...heck, even Poe was ribbing him....that to not even give further clues or give it a resolution seems like an oversight to me and something that could have easily been done.

First watch I thought it was that he (Finn) wanted to tell her he loved her or whatever.....second watch I'm convinced that he wanted to tell her the the Force had been 'working' in him somehow.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 23, 2019, 09:32:05 AM
On a slightly different topic, I will say this:  Going back to The Last Jedi, there were some things that bothered me, for sure.  But I liked the film overall, despite feeling that it ranks pretty low in the overall scheme of the SW universe.  The thing is when you have such a big, overarching story spanning multiple films, I find that my initial reactions to some of the films aren't necessarily consistent with my long-term reaction once I have had a chance to view the films in their "historical" context within the entire franchise.  In that vein, I was hoping that the little things that nagged at me about TLJ would feel like they "fit" better and would kind of fall away after seeing The Rise of Skywalker.  But unfortunately, I kind of feel the opposite.  To me, ROS was such a great film and so superior to TLJ to me that I feel like TLJ really suffers in comparison.  :dunno:  Oh well.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 23, 2019, 09:37:19 AM
To me, ROS was such a great film and so superior to TLJ to me that I feel like TLJ really suffers in comparison.  :dunno:  Oh well.  :lol

I feel like ROS completely ignores TLJ. Outside of Luke and Snoke dying and Ren becoming the Supreme leader......TLJ seems like a massive waste of time now after watching ROS. I really thing with some tweaks ROS could have/should have been the follow up to TFA.....leaving a final film of a major battle between a fully trained Jedi in Rey and Ben Solo and Palpatine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 23, 2019, 09:37:39 AM
EDIT: nevermind, guess I'm just pissing on the parade. Seems like I'm the only one who enjoys dissecting this stuff and pointing out why I feel they've done such a disservice to this saga. Sorry

Marvel can put out 23 movies in 10 years, make them all very cohesive and logical. Star Wars can't even do 3 cohesive films in 6 years but they get a pass. ight

Au contraire... I actually agree with you that cohesiveness was a problem with the sequels. For example, the question of Rey's parentage seemed to fly all over the place. However, I am curious to know how much I was affected by knowing that Disney did not have a plan behind the scenes. Am I exaggerating the lack of cohesiveness (IMO) because the making of these films was so widely covered? Or is it a legitimate issue that future generations will notice as well? The good news is that we only have to wait another decade to find out what today's children think... :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 23, 2019, 09:39:06 AM
@Gary:  The Finn thing could very well be true.  It is consistent with something he says fairly late in the film, so you could very well be right.  But while I would like to know what he was getting at, I'm fine not knowing, that's all.  And part of me actually likes the fact that it was kept a mystery.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 23, 2019, 09:43:26 AM
@Gary:  The Finn thing could very well be true.  It is consistent with something he says fairly late in the film, so you could very well be right.  But while I would like to know what he was getting at, I'm fine not knowing, that's all.  And part of me actually likes the fact that it was kept a mystery.

Apparently JJ confirmed Gary's theory.
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-director-reveals-what-finn-was-trying-to-tell-rey-spoilers-a172354
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 23, 2019, 09:43:43 AM
To me, ROS was such a great film and so superior to TLJ to me that I feel like TLJ really suffers in comparison.  :dunno:  Oh well.  :lol

I feel like ROS completely ignores TLJ. Outside of Luke and Snoke dying and Ren becoming the Supreme leader......TLJ seems like a massive waste of time now after watching ROS. I really thing with some tweaks ROS could have/should have been the follow up to TFA.....leaving a final film of a major battle between a fully trained Jedi in Rey and Ben Solo and Palpatine.



Yeah, I saw that you said the same thing the other day.  I wholeheartedly disagree.  But that's fine.

And in case you saw it, sorry about your other post.  I thought I hit the "quote" button and was responding, and then after I posted it, realized I hit the "modify" button and actually changed YOUR post.  So I had to go back into your post and reconstruct it.  :lolpalm:

EDIT:  Gahhhh!  Just did the same thing again with another post!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 23, 2019, 09:43:56 AM
@Gary:  The Finn thing could very well be true.  It is consistent with something he says fairly late in the film, so you could very well be right.  But while I would like to know what he was getting at, I'm fine not knowing, that's all.  And part of me actually likes the fact that it was kept a mystery.

Yeah, it doesn't detract from it at all not knowing 'what' Finn was wanting to say. It just seemed odd to me that there were SO many instances of it being brought up and then nothing??

  Part of me thinks that with the way the entire show ends....that this isn't the last major motion picture we will see with Finn, Poe and Rey in it. They may have concluded the old Skywalker sage but they certainly left the door open for more with this new cast of characters should they choose to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 23, 2019, 09:45:19 AM
^Yeah, I thought about that as well, and it wouldn't surprise me.  I wouldn't mind seeing more from these characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 23, 2019, 09:56:06 AM
^Yeah, I thought about that as well, and it wouldn't surprise me.  I wouldn't mind seeing more from these characters.

I think with the 'old' lore/characters out of the way that would free them from the need to 'have' to include or touch on particular aspects. They'd essentially have free reign on what story they'd want to tell with no real obligations to throw in there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 23, 2019, 09:59:08 AM
JJ Abrams has come out and said that Finn secret he wanted to the Rey was that he is force sensitive. https://411mania.com/movies/jj-abrams-reveals-secret-finn-star-wars-ros/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 23, 2019, 10:34:48 AM
Ep. VI - Return of the Jedi

I lined up for this one outside the theater EARLY in the morning for the first showing.  It was one of those theaters where you bought your tickets at the window outside, and then go inside.  And each window had above it one of those little black boards with the white letters that you can clip in to show the different movies and times.  When we got there, the line in front of the window with the board that had "Return of the Jedi" on it was already stretching into the parking lot.  We got in line and waited.  Counting the number of people ahead of us, we would definitely get into the first showing, but probably wouldn't have great seats.  I had a walking cast on my left leg, so I was moving slowing, and Richard would have to go in and quickly grab out seats after we got tickets.  But...well, people sometimes don't think things through properly.  Once the ticket windows opened up, they weren't likely going to staff all the windows.  Not that early in the day.  But another window or two would be open.  And people didn't seem to realize that, the way this theater did things, there wasn't a single line for all windows.  You lined up behind whichever window you were going to.  So when the staff later arrived and they prepared to open the windows, we saw which other window they were going to open that did NOT say "Return of the Jedi" above it, and Richard strolled right up to that window and got our tickets instantly, and we went in with our great seats.  /strategy

Anyhow, my 12-year-old self enjoyed the heck out of this movie.  The only thing that didn't work is my main slight annoyance to this day, which I will touch on below.  But as a whole, this was such a great then-ending to the Star Wars trilogy.  It took the dark ending of TESB, acknowledged it, built on it, and brought us back to the light with a suitably triumphant victory over the evil empire and the redemption of the galaxy's most feared villain.

Three things that worked:
-Jabba's palace rescue, as a whole.  Yeah, there were some moments that, in retrospect, were perhaps a bit too silly or slapstick.  But that sequence as a whole was so much fun.  And it nicely set up that Luke has legitimate powers now, as well as a potential dark side.
-Vader's conflict and redemption.  Yeah...
-Luke's arc as a whole...he has come so far.  He isn't the whiny kid anymore.  He has seen a lot of things and been through a lot of things that changed him, and it works.
-3.b:  Seeing walkers outside the snow.  Yeah, minor thing.  And after the passage of so much time, it doesn't even really seem like a thing.  But at the time, I and others just had it in our heads that, like the snowspeeders, AT-ATs and AT-STs belonged in the snow.  It was a little thing, but it was cool to see them in the forest.

Three things that didn't:
-Parts of the battle of Endor.  As a whole, it was great.  But at times, it crossed over to be a bit too silly/slapstick to the point where it momentarily took me out of the moment a few times.  I don't hate ewoks.  But there were times when I just felt like the cute/silly factor was taken just a bit too far and crossed the line.  And when you add in Chewbacca doing a Tarzan yell...
-C3PO:  3PO as comic relief had now officially crossed the line for me.  He wasn't yet the abomination he would become in the PT.  But I felt it was definitely over the line.
-I struggle to come up with a third, so I'll go with something I haven't harped on TOO much yet:  Re-done scenes.  I don't remember many outside Jabba's palace.  But a lot of what was added felt not only unnecessary, but detracted from the overall feel of the film for me.

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Eh, as I've said in the two previous installments, there isn't too much I'd mess with.  Yeah, there are things I think could have been done better.  But overall, the trilogy was great, so I don't feel like it's beneficial for me to substitute my own personal judgment for that of the filmmakers at the time.  I just subjectively wish Lucas would have dialed back the silly just a bit.  Again, it's pretty subjective.  But he could have still appealed plenty to the people he was trying to appeal to without making others potentially eyeroll at parts.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on December 23, 2019, 11:05:55 AM
@Gary:  The Finn thing could very well be true.  It is consistent with something he says fairly late in the film, so you could very well be right.  But while I would like to know what he was getting at, I'm fine not knowing, that's all.  And part of me actually likes the fact that it was kept a mystery.

Yeah, it doesn't detract from it at all not knowing 'what' Finn was wanting to say. It just seemed odd to me that there were SO many instances of it being brought up and then nothing??

  Part of me thinks that with the way the entire show ends....that this isn't the last major motion picture we will see with Finn, Poe and Rey in it. They may have concluded the old Skywalker sage but they certainly left the door open for more with this new cast of characters should they choose to.

Lucasfilm has confirmed that they will not do any more trilogies with this set of characters (Rey, Poe, & Finn), but they will appear in future Star Wars films. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 23, 2019, 11:43:19 AM
So much to catch up on, as well as opinions to echo and share. 

Thoughts on whether we can dispense with small font now?  Pretty much everyone here has seen it now, yes?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 23, 2019, 12:01:49 PM
Just to be considerate of any who may not have, let's keep the small font for a bit longer.  It's only been a few days since release. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 23, 2019, 12:17:43 PM
Just to be considerate of any who may not have, let's keep the small font for a bit longer.  It's only been a few days since release.

Copy that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 23, 2019, 12:24:45 PM
And on a completely unrelated note:

D'AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!   :heart :heart :heart :heart

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/hospital-dresses-nicu-infants-as-baby-yoda-princess-leia-in-star-warsthemed-photo-shoot-230516167.html?guccounter=1

My heart can't repel cute of that magnitude!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 23, 2019, 12:47:17 PM
Babies are gross.  :yeahright
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on December 23, 2019, 02:32:51 PM
Babies are gross.  :yeahright

Keep in mind that I have two kids of my own.  They're teenagers now.

A colleague had a baby about a month ago.  A few weeks ago, her supervisor said to me, "hey, did you see the picture of [name's] baby?"  My response was along the lines of:  "Nope.  I assume it looks like pretty much every other baby?" and he responded in the affirmative.

That said, that's an awesome thing for the nurses to do.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 23, 2019, 03:39:43 PM
Babies are gross.  :yeahright

Keep in mind that I have two kids of my own.  They're teenagers now.

A colleague had a baby about a month ago.  A few weeks ago, her supervisor said to me, "hey, did you see the picture of [name's] baby?"  My response was along the lines of:  "Nope.  I assume it looks like pretty much every other baby?" and he responded in the affirmative.

That said, that's an awesome thing for the nurses to do.

 :lol :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 23, 2019, 03:45:21 PM
And on a completely unrelated note:

D'AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!   :heart :heart :heart :heart

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/hospital-dresses-nicu-infants-as-baby-yoda-princess-leia-in-star-warsthemed-photo-shoot-230516167.html?guccounter=1

My heart can't repel cute of that magnitude!

Who cares, do we know who the babies' parents are?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 24, 2019, 08:53:59 AM
Ep. VII - The Force Awakens

When The Phantom Menace was first announced, there was a palpable excitement surrounding it.  Star Wars was coming back!  Then...the prequel trilogy happened.

Years later, Disney told us they were going to make good on Lucas' promise that Star Wars was going to be a trilogy of trilogies.  And we were excited again.  For me, I was cautiously optimistic because, you know, the prequels.  But judging from the MCU, if anyone could pull off something amazing with the Star Wars universe, Disney could.  And when all was said and done, they delivered.  We got great characters, a great story, great imagery, and great callbacks to all the stuff that made many of us fall in love with Star Wars in the first place.  It was the perfect blend of new and familiar, and gave us the beginning of the next chapter of Star Wars in a way that was as close to perfect as fans could reasonably ask for.

Three things that worked:
I have to pick only three?
-1.  The entire opening sequence.  Just as when Vader was first introduced in Ep. IV, we quickly learned that Kylo was not to be trifled with.  And as the story progressed, we also got a wonderfully multifaceted, flawed villain.
-2.  Wreckage on Jakku.  There was no time wasted on dialog to give the back story.  We knew something big happened, and the imagery of those wrecked ships was one of the most marvelous things in Star Wars in a very long time.
-3.  Old friends.  Han, Chewbacca, Leia.  The hope of Luke.  And it was all just SO well done.

Three things that didn't:
-1.  OK, broken record time...STILL going back to timelines and things happening too instantaneously.  Han and Chewie not only find the Falcon, but also get to it, within about 2 minutes of it taking off?  The First Order's weapon takes out multiple worlds in seconds?  Just build in some time!
-2.  Rathtars.
-3.  Is there even a third minor complaint I could raise?  Phasma maybe?  :dunno:

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Well...nothing, really.  It was pretty great.  There is nothing about the story itself that really could have used some tightening up to make the overall product better.  It just worked.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 24, 2019, 08:56:04 AM
TFA is definitely the strongest of the trilogy. Except we still never find out how Maz Kanata found Luke's lightsaber but BIG SHRUG to that I guess
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 24, 2019, 10:20:16 AM
Those of you who have Disney Plus.....there’s a pretty neat documentary on there called  “Empire of Dreams: The Story of the Star Wars Trilogy”.

It details the making of the OT. I hadn’t ever seen anything this detailed before. I’m sure something like this has been out there but it’s my first look at how difficult it was to get ANH then the others made. Pretty neat stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 24, 2019, 10:27:12 AM
Yeah that's an awesome documentary. It was included in the first DVD release back in 2004 I think. Im very surprised it didn't get included in the Blu-ray or subsequent releases.


It's the reason I never got rid of my DVD set.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 24, 2019, 10:43:44 AM
Yeah that's an awesome documentary. It was included in the first DVD release back in 2004 I think. Im very surprised it didn't get included in the Blu-ray or subsequent releases.


It's the reason I never got rid of my DVD set.

Loved that documentary.  Been a while since we watched it.  Now that the trilogy of trilogy's is over, might have to revisit it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 24, 2019, 11:11:09 AM
Yeah that's an awesome documentary. It was included in the first DVD release back in 2004 I think. Im very surprised it didn't get included in the Blu-ray or subsequent releases.


It's the reason I never got rid of my DVD set.

Loved that documentary.  Been a while since we watched it.  Now that the trilogy of trilogy's is over, might have to revisit it.

Had to stop watching this morning with about an hour left to go.....BUT....what I can say is that neither the Prequels or this new trilogy ever stood a chance in living up to what the OT was. It was just perfect timing and a great story for that time and a dozen other things that lined up in perfect unison for it to become a cultural phenomenon. There’s just simply no way to reply-capture that.







That doesn’t excuse some of the choices/writing etc etc of the prequels and New trilogy.....just an observation that with the SW fandom as rabid as they are combined with 30+ years of ‘them’ deifying the OT.....literally nothing was going to be good enough. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 24, 2019, 11:32:04 AM
I'll just say it right now:  The sequel trilogy is the BEST trilogy.  And I will stand by that (although fully acknowledging that, of course, the ST owes its very existence to the OT, and its depth, color, and texture relies heavily on the foundation of the OT).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 24, 2019, 11:43:40 AM
I'll just say it right now:  The sequel trilogy is the BEST trilogy.  And I will stand by that (although fully acknowledging that, of course, the ST owes its very existence to the OT, and its depth, color, and texture relies heavily on the foundation of the OT).

Nice bait.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 24, 2019, 11:45:58 AM
I'll just say it right now: The original trilogy is the FIRST trilogy.

I'll even go a step further and say that prequel trilogy was the SECOND trilogy.



And, I'm going here.....but (and don't ban me) the sequel trilogy is the NEWEST trilogy.

Prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 24, 2019, 11:47:48 AM
I'll just say it right now:  The sequel trilogy is the BEST trilogy.  And I will stand by that (although fully acknowledging that, of course, the ST owes its very existence to the OT, and its depth, color, and texture relies heavily on the foundation of the OT).

I agree with you. I loved the NT and think they're more entertaining than the OT.....But I think the SW community as a whole doesn't. At least, there is a very vocal contingent on the internet (not pointing at members here or this thread) that spend a great deal of time trashing the NT in the form of 'reviews', podcasts, youtube vids etc etc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 24, 2019, 11:48:12 AM
I'll just say it right now: The original trilogy is the FIRST trilogy.

I'll even go a step further and say that prequel trilogy was the SECOND trilogy.



And, I'm going here.....but (and don't ban me) the sequel trilogy is the NEWEST trilogy.

Prove me wrong.

:clap:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 24, 2019, 11:51:24 AM
At least, there is a very vocal contingent on the internet (not pointing at members here or this thread) that spend a great deal of time trashing the NT in the form of 'reviews', podcasts, youtube vids etc etc.

Of course.  I was listening to a YouTube "review" yesterday on my drive home, and when it was over, it went to another that tried to make the case that ROS was "absolute garbage."  I think he missed the irony that it was actually his "review" that was absolute garbage.  As is the case with most of those that try to be "critical," it was just nonsense and the typical edgy for the sake of being edgy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 24, 2019, 02:10:50 PM
I'll just say it right now: The original trilogy is the FIRST trilogy.

I'll even go a step further and say that prequel trilogy was the SECOND trilogy.



And, I'm going here.....but (and don't ban me) the sequel trilogy is the NEWEST trilogy.

Prove me wrong.

Reported! 

:) :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on December 25, 2019, 06:26:39 AM
I'll just say it right now:  The sequel trilogy is the BEST trilogy.  And I will stand by that (although fully acknowledging that, of course, the ST owes its very existence to the OT, and its depth, color, and texture relies heavily on the foundation of the OT).

Nothing is better than the Original Trilogy. I could do without Ewoks, Boba Fett's death and the Darth Vader reveal otherwise they were near perfect.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TioJorge on December 25, 2019, 09:51:41 AM
I'll just say it right now:  The sequel trilogy is the BEST trilogy.  And I will stand by that (although fully acknowledging that, of course, the ST owes its very existence to the OT, and its depth, color, and texture relies heavily on the foundation of the OT).

I mean, the only people that will argue with that are children or man-children that can't accept differing opinions. I love that people love the new stuff. I don't, but it doesn't have anything to do with me. I think that each movie is cool on it's own (the last being less cool). But together, I think they're a failure of a trilogy. Not like "OMFG FUQ THIS SERIES THEY FAIL", but like, they actually just kind of failed to make it a great, cohesive, singular trilogy that can connect and have meaningful "first, second, third" interactions.

But I'm glad the movie didn't flop even though it didn't do great for Star Wars standards because I do want to see the series go on and to expand. Literally, I want some more Expanded Universe stuff and some more single stories. For all the crap that people give Kathleen, I like her idea of not doing any more trilogies. We've done that three times now over the entire series history. Let's try something different. It also speaks volumes that the couple times they did it, even though Solo flopped, Rogue One is still seen as one of, if not the best Star Wars out there by a good amount of people. Even if not that, it's certainly the most innovative and experimental and the fact it worked is amazing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 25, 2019, 01:01:18 PM
At least, there is a very vocal contingent on the internet (not pointing at members here or this thread) that spend a great deal of time trashing the NT in the form of 'reviews', podcasts, youtube vids etc etc.

Of course.  I was listening to a YouTube "review" yesterday on my drive home, and when it was over, it went to another that tried to make the case that ROS was "absolute garbage."  I think he missed the irony that it was actually his "review" that was absolute garbage.  As is the case with most of those that try to be "critical," it was just nonsense and the typical edgy for the sake of being edgy.

I saw a review from a prominent YouTuber who said that nothing was good about the movie except for some of its visuals. To each their own, but that seems so extreme to me. At a minimum, the Kylo storyline probably deserves at least some props, IMO.

I’ve seen a few people say that the plot “makes no sense”. Did anyone else feel that way? I probably need to watch the movie again, but on first viewing I felt that the plot was actually fairly straightforward, just way too dense with stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ErHaO on December 25, 2019, 09:14:24 PM
Saw it today and yeah, they kind of pulled a Game of Thrones season 8 for me. It is a damn mess. Buuut, I did find it an enjoyable mess? Maybe the more adventurous/lighthearted tone of Star Wars makes me more accepting to a messy plot such as this.

But at this point a crappy Star Wars film does not bother me all too much to be honest. As much as I like Star Wars in general, out of the main 8 episodes before this one only two are great and two are good. The rest ranges from solid to absolutely horrible. That is a conclusion I came to when I rewatched the entire series with friends recently.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Stadler on December 26, 2019, 08:58:30 AM
I just watched Attack of the Clones, as I move through the OT/PT (using the Machete Order).   

- Hayden Christiansen: worse than I remember.
- Natalie Portman: lamer than I remember
- the story: better than I remember
- the visuals (first half): worse than I remember
- the visuals (second half): better than I remember

I liked it overall, and am excited for the one/two punch of Revenge/Return.

One question though: is there significance to the Jango Fett being the original "clone" and also working with Dooku?  Or is it one of those Star Wars coincidences/retcons necessary for all that follows?  It's not bugging me, but it seemed a little... awkward.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: contest_sanity on December 26, 2019, 10:10:09 PM
I liked Kevin Smith's recap/review of ROS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnqNZhnGZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnqNZhnGZs)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 27, 2019, 06:05:37 AM
I liked Kevin Smith's recap/review of ROS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnqNZhnGZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnqNZhnGZs)

I loooooove Kevin, but I generally only watch his reviews when I want to be reaffirmed that I loved whatever he's reviewing.

I assume he loves it, thinks it's the best of the trilogy, cried a whole lot during it, maybe cried during the review itself, thanks JJ for being a genius, and said it gave him ALL the feels?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 27, 2019, 06:21:42 AM
I liked Kevin Smith's recap/review of ROS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnqNZhnGZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnqNZhnGZs)

I loooooove Kevin, but I generally only watch his reviews when I want to be reaffirmed that I loved whatever he's reviewing.

I assume he loves it, thinks it's the best of the trilogy, cried a whole lot during it, maybe cried during the review itself, thanks JJ for being a genius, and said it gave him ALL the feels?

Add in a bunch of F bombs and I think you got it
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 27, 2019, 07:06:26 AM
The new Mandalorian episode might be the best thing to come out of the Star Wars universe. Just perfect I n every way.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 27, 2019, 07:32:30 AM
The new Mandalorian episode might be the best thing to come out of the Star Wars universe. Just perfect I n every way.


Agreed. What a fantastic way to end an incredible season.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 27, 2019, 07:33:48 AM
I liked Kevin Smith's recap/review of ROS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnqNZhnGZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnqNZhnGZs)

I loooooove Kevin, but I generally only watch his reviews when I want to be reaffirmed that I loved whatever he's reviewing.

I assume he loves it, thinks it's the best of the trilogy, cried a whole lot during it, maybe cried during the review itself, thanks JJ for being a genius, and said it gave him ALL the feels?

Add in a bunch of F bombs and I think you got it

Actually, while I wasn't far off, he was much more critical of the movie, or at least recognizing its many many flaws than I thought he'd be.

I actually enjoyed his review. He loved the movie, obviously, but didn't feel that to love it, you have to think it's perfect or amazing or flawless, that you can notice ALL the bad ideas and still enjoy the hell out of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 27, 2019, 07:50:33 AM
I've tried to say the same thing while eviscerating its weaknesses  :lol

It's totally fine to like something that isn't perfect. No movie IS perfect in the first place. Except Shawshank.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 27, 2019, 08:01:30 AM
The new Mandalorian episode might be the best thing to come out of the Star Wars universe. Just perfect I n every way.


Agreed. What a fantastic way to end an incredible season.

I also loved it. Incredibly well written and executed work.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 27, 2019, 08:02:22 AM
I gotta say, The Mandalorian gives me a great deal of hope that the future of Star Wars is bright. What a great show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 27, 2019, 08:04:55 AM
I'll just say it right now:  The sequel trilogy is the BEST trilogy.  And I will stand by that (although fully acknowledging that, of course, the ST owes its very existence to the OT, and its depth, color, and texture relies heavily on the foundation of the OT).

I agree with you. I loved the NT and think they're more entertaining than the OT.....But I think the SW community as a whole doesn't. At least, there is a very vocal contingent on the internet (not pointing at members here or this thread) that spend a great deal of time trashing the NT in the form of 'reviews', podcasts, youtube vids etc etc.

After seeing RoS for the second time yesterday I agree. I liked it a lot more the second time. I'm still not sure about how I feel about Rey being a Palapatine but maybe that will be explored down the road.

Here is my updated ranking:

1. The Force Awakens
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. Rise of Skywalker
4. Empire Strikes Back
5. The Last Jedi
6. Rogue One
7. A New Hope
8. Return of the Jedi
9. Attack of the Clones
10. The Phantom Menace
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 27, 2019, 08:13:54 AM
1. Empire



2. Revenge of the sith/Return of the Jedi
3. Rogue one
4. Force awakens
5. A New hope

6. Rise of skywalker
7. Phantom Menace
8. Solo
9. Attack of the clones



10. Last jedi
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 27, 2019, 08:18:25 AM
Rankings? Sure why not.

1. Empire
2. A New Hope
3. Rogue One
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Last Jedi
6. Force Awakens
7. Solo
8. Rise of Skywalker
9. Revenge of the Sith
10. Phantom Menace
11. Attack of the clones.


Keep in mind there is a BIG drop in quality in my list from 4 to 5.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 27, 2019, 10:33:54 AM
The new Mandalorian episode might be the best thing to come out of the Star Wars universe. Just perfect I n every way.

Stack all 8-episodes together, and it beats any of the three trilogies.  That finale had everything... action, emotion, suspense, payoff, and nice enough teasers that leave us/them with three fantastic storylines to develop.

Thank you Jon Favreau ...  :hefdaddy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on December 27, 2019, 11:07:34 AM
The new Mandalorian episode might be the best thing to come out of the Star Wars universe. Just perfect I n every way.
I won't get t see these episodes anytime soon.  I'm not set up for it, unless they release them on DVD someday..  :(
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 27, 2019, 11:29:04 AM
The new Mandalorian episode might be the best thing to come out of the Star Wars universe. Just perfect I n every way.

Stack all 8-episodes together, and it beats any of the three trilogies.  That finale had everything... action, emotion, suspense, payoff, and nice enough teasers that leave us/them with three fantastic storylines to develop.

Thank you Jon Favreau ...  :hefdaddy.

I was talking with some friends last night, and we all agreed he should take on an executive producer role a la Kevin Feige, someone to oversee the whole universe to ensure quality. He's more than shown he has the chops with his work, and definitely has a finger on the pulse of the universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 27, 2019, 11:29:42 AM
The new Mandalorian episode might be the best thing to come out of the Star Wars universe. Just perfect I n every way.

Stack all 8-episodes together, and it beats any of the three trilogies.  That finale had everything... action, emotion, suspense, payoff, and nice enough teasers that leave us/them with three fantastic storylines to develop.

Thank you Jon Favreau ...  :hefdaddy.

I was talking with some friends last night, and we all agreed he should take on an executive producer role a la Kevin Feige, someone to oversee the whole universe to ensure quality. He's more than shown he has the chops with his work, and definitely has a finger on the pulse of the universe.
I would not be opposed to this at all. Not sure if he'd be willing though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 27, 2019, 11:32:12 AM
I've talked the same idea over with my friends. Jon Favreau should definitely be in charge of something bigger going forward. Him in charge of the cinematic universe I think would be a great move, or even for just a particular run of connected films.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 27, 2019, 11:33:26 AM
Could you imagine a fifteen or so cinematic universe building to an epic climax?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 27, 2019, 11:35:02 AM
Could you imagine a fifteen or so cinematic universe building to an epic climax?

Yes. All I want is the Star Wars equivalent of the MCU, is that so much to ask?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 27, 2019, 11:37:25 AM
Could you imagine a fifteen or so cinematic universe building to an epic climax?

Yes, only it was a 22 or so cinematic universe building to an epic climax.


I'd be fine with Star Wars being more individual movie focused.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 27, 2019, 12:08:23 PM
I like the idea of giving Favreau a key role in the next set of Star Wars movies but the thought of a MCU-level universe just makes my brain hurt. If they take some time, really craft a great trilogy, make it happen then that would be great enough for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 27, 2019, 12:09:32 PM
Aw. I think Star Wars is a perfect fit for a naturally occurring MCU-style film universe. I'd love to see something done as cohesive and coherent as that in a galaxy far, far away.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 27, 2019, 12:21:24 PM
I think now that they are free from having to tie any subsequent movie to any of the OT or Prequels....they could come up with a few good movies. Just stand alone stuff....no need for trilogies or sequels.

I like the idea of having someone who has a good understanding of the pulse of that universe and the fans....ala a Favreau. I'd also be in favor of Dave Filoni being involved in someway if they were gonna 'shape' the next phase of SW 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 27, 2019, 04:16:59 PM
Aw. I think Star Wars is a perfect fit for a naturally occurring MCU-style film universe. I'd love to see something done as cohesive and coherent as that in a galaxy far, far away.

I feel like one of the biggest problems with Star Wars that I have is that for a universe claiming to be almost infinitely big, we keep going back to the same places with characters being related to each other and it just makes the universe feel really small to me. Like no matter what story you tell in the Star Wars universe on the big screen, it seems we have to have characters we know or are familiar with, and the same things keep appearing whether it's lightsabers, jedi, sith, same type of ships and so on. I feel like with the MCU it's more believable with all (or most) of these heroes originating on earth and so it makes sense when New York is in trouble that Avengers assemble to deal with it. I know they've gone cosmic in the last few movies but in those movies, the tie-ins have still made sense like in Infinity War or Endgame - the whole universe is affected by the story.

Personally I'm totally on board with a Knights of the Old Republic trilogy set thousands of years before the current movies. I'm sure we'll still have Jedi vs Sith and classic ships like the tie-fighters or even the x-wings but maybe finally we can have a movie where the characters aren't related to the old ones we know and love. Also I feel like one of the best parts of The Mandalorian and why I have enjoyed it so much is that it truly feels like a new story told in the universe - separate to the rest, and the fact it doesn't have to tie into the main movies feels like a blessing rather than a curse. :p
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 27, 2019, 05:35:37 PM
Finished Mandalorian.

Loved it. Great episode. Great show.


One problem....spoilers....










ALWAYS MAKE SURE THEY'RE DEAD!!!! THERE WAS NO EXPLOSION! GO FINISH THE JOB BEFORE YOU LEAVE!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 27, 2019, 05:37:31 PM
Decided to plow through the prequels today. Haven't seen Episode I in probably a decade. I have to say that I really enjoyed it. Going in with extremely tempered expectations made a huge difference. Even though the movie is definitely a bit dull at times, and I don't feel a pressing need to see it again soon, the imagination of George Lucas was something to behold. That's really the one area where I feel the prequels have a significant leg up on the sequels - their creativity and originality. On to Attack of the Clones!

Oh, and I 100% endorse everything that has been said about Jon Favreau.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 27, 2019, 05:42:15 PM
I fully agree with every word of Zantera's post.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 27, 2019, 05:56:58 PM
Agreed with the perfect ending for the Mandalorian, I loved every single one of these episodes and each of the characters in the show have been utilized really well.

I read a blurb that season 2 was to premiere in Fall next year and that makes me so happy.

Spoilers for the finale....



The troopers interacting with each other at the beginning was hilarious, I'm glad we have more of those interactions included. Fitting end that fight with the head Mandalorian with the storm troopers was so brutal. For some reason I was expecting it to be a setup for a betrayal, not sure why, glad it didn't go there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 27, 2019, 06:24:14 PM
I fully agree with every word of Zantera's post.

Same.

Especially on the exploring the Old Republic stuff. They could still work in some cool Sith vs Jedi stuff, political, espionage.....endless possibilities
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on December 27, 2019, 07:08:41 PM
Just saw ROS, meh.  Not a bad movie, but not anything really memorable either.  Felt like a chore to sit through the whole thing as it was kind of a bloated movie.  If they cut 45 minutes out, it would have been sooo much better.  Oh well, and please, no star wars universe type of thing.  They've watered the brand down so much at this point. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 28, 2019, 06:22:52 AM
Saw ROS for the second time last night and I loved it even more than the first time. I get the criticisms and I certainly don't think it's a perfect movie, but it's a lot of fun and it ties things up nicely.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 28, 2019, 07:08:41 AM
I would be so down for an Old Republic storyline.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zook on December 28, 2019, 08:00:36 AM
Those biker scouts were my favorite part of the episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 28, 2019, 08:13:02 AM
Those biker scouts were my favorite part of the episode.

Until they did the unforgivable.

But yes. Prior to that, that was great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 28, 2019, 08:21:15 AM
Those biker scouts were my favorite part of the episode.

I love when they keep missing and the one guy looks at the gun, like its something wrong with the gun  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 28, 2019, 08:26:36 AM
Fantastic finale, Baby Yoda did the little magic hands!! Can't wait for season 2.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 28, 2019, 10:14:56 AM
Those biker scouts were my favorite part of the episode.

Until they did the unforgivable.

But yes. Prior to that, that was great.

Yeah, seen the episode twice, and cringed hard both times at those moments. I've never wanted an instant and gruesome death for characters as much as I did at that moment, and I knew it was coming. I can only imagine what the reaction in a big theater would've been.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zook on December 28, 2019, 11:08:16 AM
I'm a fan of baby Yoda, but it is just a puppet. It wasn't hurt. Yeah, they diserved to be taken out, but their actions didn't upset me.

In fact, I laughed when they punched him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 28, 2019, 11:38:53 AM
I'm a fan of baby Yoda, but it is just a puppet. It wasn't hurt. Yeah, they diserved to be taken out, but their actions didn't upset me.

In fact, I laughed when they punched him.

You monster.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Walrus on December 28, 2019, 12:13:57 PM
I kinda laughed, too. But only because of those adorable wittle sounds the baby makes  :heart
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 28, 2019, 12:15:26 PM
I'm a fan of baby Yoda, but it is just a puppet. It wasn't hurt. Yeah, they diserved to be taken out, but their actions didn't upset me.

In fact, I laughed when they punched him.

You monster.

This  :heart
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zook on December 28, 2019, 12:28:47 PM
I'm a fan of baby Yoda, but it is just a puppet. It wasn't hurt. Yeah, they diserved to be taken out, but their actions didn't upset me.

In fact, I laughed when they punched him.

You monster.

:zook2:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on December 28, 2019, 08:14:48 PM
I've never seen The Mandalorian, but I've seen Baby Yoda everywhere for a while now.  I thought Yoda told Luke he'd trained Jedi for 800 years or something.  Is The Mandalorian set in the same universe but 900 years before the OT?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 28, 2019, 08:40:06 PM
I've never seen The Mandalorian, but I've seen Baby Yoda everywhere for a while now.  I thought Yoda told Luke he'd trained Jedi for 800 years or something.  Is The Mandalorian set in the same universe but 900 years before the OT?

Baby Yoda is just a nickname.  It's not Yoda.   It's the same species as Yoda...but that species has no name.   So people gave it the nickname "Baby Yoda"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on December 28, 2019, 08:51:11 PM
Thank you; that makes sense.  Does the character actually have a name?  I've honestly never seen him referred to as anything but Baby Yoda.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 28, 2019, 08:54:10 PM
Thank you; that makes sense.  Does the character actually have a name?  I've honestly never seen him referred to as anything but Baby Yoda.

Nope.  He is referred to in the credits as "The Child" I believe.   

And the events take place just a few years post ROTJ and many years before TFA.   Post "Fall of the Empire" and the early stages of the splintered factions that will eventually become The First Order.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 28, 2019, 08:58:30 PM
And you really should watch the show.   It's got the feel of the old Kung Fu TV series and the old Clint Eastwood "Man With No Name" spaghetti westerns.     It's extremely well done and well written.   

For the first time in decades, Star Wars fans are NOT arguing about the pros and cons of a Star Wars product.   Everyone pretty much agrees that this show is all thumbs up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 28, 2019, 08:59:11 PM
Very cool to see the DarkSaber introduced, especially given its Mandalorian ancestry.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on December 28, 2019, 10:31:21 PM
I currently have a dumb TV (no means of connecting directly to the Internet) and my Blu-ray player was apparently one of the last ones made before they started putting wi-fi in them standard.  I bought a cheapo "smart" Blu-ray player specifically because it has wi-fi, and haven't hooked it up yet because it means crawling down under and behind the entertainment center.  Pain in the ass.  Now that the holidays are mostly past, I don't really have any excuse any more.  Basically, I already bought the thing, might as well hook it up.  I'm just not looking forward to the hassle involved.  It's literally been years since I was back there.  But once I do, I plan to check out some online stuff, see what all the fuss is about.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 29, 2019, 05:43:31 AM
You have internet, right?  Even if you watch online, it's worth $9 to get Disney+ for a month, and binge watch the 8 episodes (they're only 35-ish minutes in length each; the finale is 50 minutes).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on December 29, 2019, 07:21:10 AM
Yeah, I could watch TV on my PC.  I just don't.  The idea of sitting for even 35 minutes in a desk chair watching a monitor sounds painful.  If I'm gonna sit and watch something, I need my recliner and the TV in the living room.  Don't worry, I'll get there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 29, 2019, 06:31:35 PM
Decided to plow through the prequels today. Haven't seen Episode I in probably a decade. I have to say that I really enjoyed it. Going in with extremely tempered expectations made a huge difference. Even though the movie is definitely a bit dull at times, and I don't feel a pressing need to see it again soon, the imagination of George Lucas was something to behold. That's really the one area where I feel the prequels have a significant leg up on the sequels - their creativity and originality. On to Attack of the Clones!

Oh, and I 100% endorse everything that has been said about Jon Favreau.

Plowed through Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. It was fun going back through the prequels, but as someone said a few pages back, you kind of have to watch them once a decade to remember their problems. Attack of the Clones was pretty dull IMO and I was covering my eyes during the loves scenes because of the cringe factor. :lol Revenge of the Sith has some great stuff and an amazing final 30 minutes (I almost teared up), but also has some issues. One big compliment I will give is that Lucas did a great job of worldbuilding... Coruscant and Naboo are both very distinct and memorable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 29, 2019, 08:21:36 PM
So those chatty troopers that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with their phasers were none other than Jason Sudeikis and Adam Pally.

Second City tweeted about it as Jason is an alum:

https://twitter.com/TheSecondCity/status/1210558803869151232

The Second City does not condone the punching of Baby Yoda by alumnus Jason Sudeikis. Please respect our privacy during this difficult time. #TheMandalorian

That whole inside joke about them missing so badly was brilliantly hilarious.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 30, 2019, 07:21:00 AM
Very cool to see the DarkSaber introduced, especially given its Mandalorian ancestry.

YES! I geeked out hardcore at that part. Makes me even more excited for the upcoming Season 7 of The Clone Wars which will finally show the siege of Mandalore.  There is lot's of speculation that characters from the Mandalorian may appear in Clone Wars and vice-versa.

Also, just about done with my re-watch of The Clone Wars. I really love this show. Season 5 is a must watch for any Star Wars fan. Plus, I didn't realize the Favreau did the voice of the head Death Watch guy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 30, 2019, 07:33:05 AM
Finally saw Rise of Skywalker.

Overall, I liked it.  A lot.  I like pretty much all of the things that happened.

I would just say that I DIDN'T like the hyperspace jumping at the beginning of the film, or how Palpatine's return was not really explained at all, or who the hell all of those people in the Sith temple were and where did they come from (given the godforsaken Rule of 2).  I also thought it would have been better storytelling if C3PO's memory weren't restored before the end of the film.  That kind of takes away the sacrificial element of what happened to him.  Also, the fact that Finn never got to tell Rey what he was trying to tell her is kind of unforgivable.

Having said all of that, it was extremely enjoyable, and none of the OT films were perfect either. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 30, 2019, 08:52:15 AM
the hyperspace jumping at the beginning of the film, or how Palpatine's return was not really explained at all, or who the hell all of those people in the Sith temple were and where did they come from (given the godforsaken Rule of 2).  I also thought it would have been better storytelling if C3PO's memory weren't restored before the end of the film.  That kind of takes away the sacrificial element of what happened to him.  Also, the fact that Finn never got to tell Rey what he was trying to tell her is kind of unforgivable.

These were my largest issues as well. But, I can overlook Palpatine's return not being explained well.....I assume the folks in the Sith temple were just worshipers of some sort, not really 'sith'. Totally on board with C3PO's memory restoration ruining what should have been a good 'send off' of sorts.....and.....had they only referenced Finn needing to tell Rey something once I'd be fine with them not addressing it. The fact they made it a sticking point in the movie and referenced it multiple times then never addressed it really bugs me. I assumed in the movie and now know due to Abrams confirming that he wanted to tell her he was becoming Force sensitive....but, that's a large 'miss' IMO on them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 30, 2019, 10:35:05 AM
the hyperspace jumping at the beginning of the film, or how Palpatine's return was not really explained at all, or who the hell all of those people in the Sith temple were and where did they come from (given the godforsaken Rule of 2).  I also thought it would have been better storytelling if C3PO's memory weren't restored before the end of the film.  That kind of takes away the sacrificial element of what happened to him.  Also, the fact that Finn never got to tell Rey what he was trying to tell her is kind of unforgivable.

These were my largest issues as well. But, I can overlook Palpatine's return not being explained well.....I assume the folks in the Sith temple were just worshipers of some sort, not really 'sith'. Totally on board with C3PO's memory restoration ruining what should have been a good 'send off' of sorts.....and.....had they only referenced Finn needing to tell Rey something once I'd be fine with them not addressing it. The fact they made it a sticking point in the movie and referenced it multiple times then never addressed it really bugs me. I assumed in the movie and now know due to Abrams confirming that he wanted to tell her he was becoming Force sensitive....but, that's a large 'miss' IMO on them.



I read that it's more likely an indication that Finn knew Rey's true parentage and that Leia told that to him before departing. I forget the exact setup but a couple of scenes hinted at Finn knowing Rey's parents through Leia. I have to watch the movie again as there are so many things that happened in the movie at breakneck speed, 2 weeks later I don't remember them all.

I kinda wish they really had killed off Chewie and permanently wiped C3POs memory. But I would think it would've left the movie on too much of a downer with Leia gone along with two other characters from the OT.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 30, 2019, 03:31:31 PM
It's been 10 days, small font shouldn't last this long.  ( :tup to those who get the lyrical reference)

I'm with faizoff - despite what JJ said.  There was the part before sailing out to the crashed Death Star where Finn says to Poe "You don't know what she's dealing with, but Leia does" ... or something along those lines.  I interpreted that line to be that Finn knew she was a 'Palpatine'.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 31, 2019, 06:20:32 AM
I already posted this link a while back, but people apparently missed it.

JJ Abrams confirmed that the secret was that Poe is force sensitive.

https://411mania.com/movies/jj-abrams-reveals-secret-finn-star-wars-ros/

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 31, 2019, 07:26:27 AM
I liked Kevin Smith's recap/review of ROS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnqNZhnGZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnqNZhnGZs)

I loooooove Kevin, but I generally only watch his reviews when I want to be reaffirmed that I loved whatever he's reviewing.

I assume he loves it, thinks it's the best of the trilogy, cried a whole lot during it, maybe cried during the review itself, thanks JJ for being a genius, and said it gave him ALL the feels?

Add in a bunch of F bombs and I think you got it

:lol  That pretty much nailed it.  ...and I have NO problem with that.  I love his review.  For his reviews of anything Marvel or Star Wars, he is very up front about being a completely biased fanboy, and he tends to mention it repeatedly to reinforce it.  But his love of both the content and film making in general really makes his reviews very enjoyable to me.

And you really should watch the show.   It's got the feel of the old Kung Fu TV series and the old Clint Eastwood "Man With No Name" spaghetti westerns.     It's extremely well done and well written.   

For the first time in decades, Star Wars fans are NOT arguing about the pros and cons of a Star Wars product.   Everyone pretty much agrees that this show is all thumbs up.

Agreed with the first paragraph.  As for the second...I guess you haven't been on many review sites.  :lol

I currently have a dumb TV (no means of connecting directly to the Internet) and my Blu-ray player was apparently one of the last ones made before they started putting wi-fi in them standard.  I bought a cheapo "smart" Blu-ray player specifically because it has wi-fi, and haven't hooked it up yet because it means crawling down under and behind the entertainment center.  Pain in the ass.  Now that the holidays are mostly past, I don't really have any excuse any more.  Basically, I already bought the thing, might as well hook it up.  I'm just not looking forward to the hassle involved.  It's literally been years since I was back there.  But once I do, I plan to check out some online stuff, see what all the fuss is about.

If your TV is a flatscreen, it has at least one HDMI input, even if it is old, right?  If you have a laptop with an HDMI port, you can simply plug the laptop right into your TV and watch it that way (which is basically what we do, except we plug the laptop into our receiver so we get awesome sound as well).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 31, 2019, 09:21:15 AM
REALLY cool interview with ROS co-writer, Chris Terrio:  https://www.indiewire.com/2019/12/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-chris-terrio-spoilers-1202198680/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 31, 2019, 10:27:45 AM
REALLY cool interview with ROS co-writer, Chris Terrio:  https://www.indiewire.com/2019/12/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-chris-terrio-spoilers-1202198680/
Wow, that was nice!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on December 31, 2019, 02:40:04 PM
I currently have a dumb TV (no means of connecting directly to the Internet) and my Blu-ray player was apparently one of the last ones made before they started putting wi-fi in them standard.  I bought a cheapo "smart" Blu-ray player specifically because it has wi-fi, and haven't hooked it up yet because it means crawling down under and behind the entertainment center.  Pain in the ass.  Now that the holidays are mostly past, I don't really have any excuse any more.  Basically, I already bought the thing, might as well hook it up.  I'm just not looking forward to the hassle involved.  It's literally been years since I was back there.  But once I do, I plan to check out some online stuff, see what all the fuss is about.

If your TV is a flatscreen, it has at least one HDMI input, even if it is old, right?  If you have a laptop with an HDMI port, you can simply plug the laptop right into your TV and watch it that way (which is basically what we do, except we plug the laptop into our receiver so we get awesome sound as well).

Good point.  Via HDMI, the TV is basically just a big monitor for the laptop, and the laptop has pretty good wi-fi.  I have options, but I'm lazy, and I've been busy enough lately that the priority gets bumped down due to even the modest amount of effort involved.  Fear not, it'll happen eventually.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 01, 2020, 05:45:19 AM
Small font just in case....

Anyway, very short review - I liked it. Felt good and a nice conclusion to a saga, for sure it didn't leave a bad taste in the mouth like Game of Thrones. It was satisfying.

Some considerations here and there....

- I still think that bringing back Palpatine is lame and an admission of defeat, "we can't get this thing appreciated so let's bring back one of the most iconic villains of the story", but I like how they got it out right away. "You all know that Palpatine is gonna be back, I assume you expect a big reveal in the middle of the movie that will serve as no surprise at all... here, watch him 2 minutes into the movie"

- I guess in the time between movies Rey got skilled up and now we can assume she's a badass jedi uh? (see the first time we meet her doing all the cool training in the forest)

- Shallow me thought Finn wanted to tell Rey he loved her. Glad they didn't stick in another love triangle. But yeah, not mentioning it was bad storytelling, he wouldn't even have had to spell it out he's force sensitive, there should have happened a situation where Finn reacted to something or someone and Rey understood it with a surprise smile on her face and Finn could have just said "...that's what I wanted to tell you", she would have understood.

- Ah, the trope of the adorable scoundrel who left on bad terms with someone of the opposite sex with whom clearly there's a hate/love relationship.

- Wouldn't have been funny if C3PO got *all* of his memory restored, prequel trilogy events included? but after all it would have been very ham-fisted and gratuitous to have him say "oh, Darth Vader created me".

- What was the significance of Leia and Ben's bodies becoming one with the Force together? Leila was somehow operating through Ben when he came back from the pit to save Rey?

- Speaking of that, since the title was "The Rise of Skywalker", I really though Ben would literally rise from the abyss where Palpatine shoved him to kick his ass once and for all.

- Badass cameo from Luke, Han Solo's was a little more gratuitous but it was nice.

- As someone pointed out.... who knows what was written first, these scripts go through many drafts and changes, and hell, in late 2019 we see Carrie Fisher who passed away three years earlier, but "I have all the Sith with me" / "and I have all the Jedi" is totally riffing off "I am inevitable / I am Iron Man". Maybe it was written first, but it came out after, so everyone will think it's been "copied".

- When the new robot asked Rey what was her name, and she said "just Rey", I thought "come on, just say Rey Skywalker". Funny enough, that was the line that closed the movie, you kinda saw it coming but I still crossed my finger silently urging her with my mouth to say it. And when she said I celebrated like when your team scores  :D

- Speaking of Rey's identity, I like that she's a Palpatine way, way better than the predictable outcome of her being a Skywalker or a Kenobi, but come on, what a cop out. To have her a grandaughter of someone who was never shown to have family or a relationship is basically like introducing an evil twin.

- As self referencing and fan pleasing it was.... come on, the final shot of Rey in the Tattoine desert was great. A nice ending going back to the movie that started it all.

- More generally, it was all nicely wrapped up with a bow, but in the end, wasn't Return of the Jedi like this? the protagonist redeems his father who kills the evil Emperor while the good guys defeat in battle the bad guys with no main casualties. Same here. But hey, this isn't Game of Thrones, death of protagonists was never to be anticipated.

- And finally.... am I a dirty and shallow old man for spending at least half of the movie thinking how I'd totally and gladly bone Rey? girl, you've been through so much, blow off some steam, you deserve it!


Final non spoilerish thoughts... as I said I liked the movie quite a lot. I won't argue it's the best movie evah or the likes, if you want to point out anything you find wrong or cliched or predictable with this movie be my guest, I won't defend it to death.... I don't consider myself a huge Star Wars fan, I watch the movies and then I move on, I'm not invested like I was for example with Game of Thrones. I enjoy them for what they are, sci-fi movies and I don't see them through the lens of a dedicated fan who spent years rewatching them and following every companion movie or book or cartoon or anything else there is to follow.... and taken as "just a movie", it was great. Then again - I'm not gonna argue to death with someone who has a well presented and rational list of flaws, I'll probably agree. But I walked out of the theatre with a smile and a sense of satisfaction and that's all I could have asked for.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on January 01, 2020, 09:54:11 AM
I joked with my son right after we saw it that The Rise Of Palpatine should have been the title. A few days on, and I really think they screwed the pooch not naming it that. A nice double curveball.

I am not of the over-analyze group that has hernia's over these films. It entertained me, I enjoyed it and don't really have any issues. I do think The Last Jedi was the best of this trilogy. The only thing that doesn't quite sit well with me is Rey taking the name. Not sure why, but that bugs me just a bit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 01, 2020, 12:55:48 PM
I concur with virtually each and every one of MirrorMasks points on the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on January 01, 2020, 04:05:52 PM
Me too, especially that last one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: YtseJam on January 01, 2020, 05:06:41 PM
Was I the only one who felt that the unmasking of the Mandalorian was disappointing? It should have been more shocking, he just looked like some goober that you'd see at ShopRite buying milk.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 01, 2020, 07:47:31 PM
Was I the only one who felt that the unmasking of the Mandalorian was disappointing? It should have been more shocking, he just looked like some goober that you'd see at ShopRite buying milk.

I think that’s what made it good. It wasn’t a big presentation or some coronation.....just a normal moment.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 02, 2020, 07:27:14 AM
Watched SOLO again last night, had only watched it once in the theater. It's really a fun, good movie. It's not R1 level.....but it's certainly not horrible by any stretch. I think it was well done.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 02, 2020, 09:09:32 AM
Watched SOLO again last night, had only watched it once in the theater. It's really a fun, good movie. It's not R1 level.....but it's certainly not horrible by any stretch. I think it was well done.

I agree and I still feel that the negativity around the film would have far less if it was released 6 months later.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2020, 09:18:09 AM
Ep. VIII - The Last Jedi

To me, this was a good movie that failed to be great simply because it had some major distractions.  It seemed to owe a lot of the fantastic Battlestar Galactica episode titled "33," which, to me, was a great idea.  It just fell a bit flat in the execution.  As explained in the last section, if two things were tweaked satisfactorily, I think this could have been a great movie.  The major complaints that I hear voiced the most (Luke's character, Snoke getting killed off, Rey being a "nobody," and Holdo keeping the escape plan a mystery) completely fall of deaf ears as far as I am concerned.  To me, they are actually some of the movie's greatest strenghts and are exactly in line with what I would realistically expect.

Three things that worked:
1.  Snoke's throne room.  So much awesome. 
2.  Luke's arc.  I get the naysayers.  But, to me, this was a VERY logical arc and had a fantastic payoff in ROS.  Some of the specifics, like the space cow, were awkward to took me out of the moment.  But Luke being cynical and having to be forced to finally grapple with his failures and his fears, and how that manifested itself was done very well.
3.  I would be remiss if I didn't mention the "Holdo Maneuver" scene.  It was just beautifully shot.  Not much more needs to be said.

Three things that didn't:
1.  Canto Bight as a whole.  So much about this side quest was a mess.  I could have lived with it if it were fixed.  But as a whole, this entire sequence was a huge miss for me.  For starters, to be a casino planet, the scale was totally off.  I have been in large casinos.  I have been in small, backwater casinos that just felt empty and sad.  This felt like the latter.  It didn't even have the scale of a single, large casino, much less a casino planet.  That set a bad tone right from the get go.  And things went downhill from there. 
2.  Phasma.  There was the hope of a payoff for this character that was not delivered on in the previous film.  And I think we almost got it.  The extended scene got us closer.  But it still didn't quite get us there, and I couldn't help but feel that we got teased with a great executioner character that never lived up to the potential that had been teased.
3.  Rose stopping Finn from taking out the canon.  It was dumb.  And pointless.  And it created so many other problems (e.g., them being able to somehow get around the walkers and get back into the base).  I get the theme they were trying to hammer home here, and it wasn't a bad idea in the abstract.  But in the execution, it completely failed.

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  I hate to basically review "the movie I wish this was" rather than "the movie we got," and to substitute my own judgment for that of the filmmakers.  But that's kinda what this section is about, to a small extent.  To me, other than the prequels, this film could have benefitted the most from a couple of minor tweaks that could have had major impact.  First off, given that the entire film's conflict centered around the slow chase, I personally needed a bit more explanation of how and why events played out this way.  We got a short line about how the resistance ships were lighter and faster.  But I think most of us felt like that wasn't good enough.  The First Order needed to grapple with that a bit more.  Maybe even a couple of lines where they just said something like, "Well, we could just have a couple of ships jump around in front of them and cut them off, couldn't we?"  "Yes, we could.  But today we are completely stamping out the last vestiges of this pathetic resistance movement, and we are going to make them suffer through every last agonizing moment of their impending extinction, so let's just follow along behind and toy with them as they experience every last drop of their ability to run gradually evaporate before their eyes."  I would have been fine with something like that.  It didn't have to be something big.  And it didn't have to be militarily sound.  The sample dialog I just wrote is stupidly arrogant.  But it is the type of stupid arrogance the bad guys in this type of film would display, so it feels logical in the context of the film.  I needed something like that.

Second, fix Canto Bight.  I mentioned the scale issue.  And the tone of it all, and the rest of the execution of it, just felt completely off.  From a storytelling perspective, Johnson and co. needed something more fun and up-beat that had a bit of action to it, and I get that.  The A and B storylines, while being compelling, were slow by their very nature.  They needed something else going on.  So Canto Bight, unfortunately, had to exist.  But it ended up being a keystone cops sequence, and some badly misplaced attempted social commentary, in an environment whose scale felt unbelievably off and completely took me out of the moment.  I'm not going to do my typical thing of providing a concise rewrite because I can't really think of a way to rewrite this plotline.  But it badly needed it, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 02, 2020, 09:47:25 AM
Bosk... I get what you're saying about the slow chase, and suggestion to fix it.  But when you pulled out the "military organization' card that you did a couple weeks back when I lamented Holdo withholding the overall plan from Poe, I'm dumbfounded you could even think - let alone suggest - such a ridiculous military tactic.  It's not a bad idea in how to make a ridiculous plotline slightly less ridiculous, but it just seems to completely contradict the principle you put forth earlier about military structure and tactics.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2020, 09:52:35 AM
I'm...I guess, dumbfounded that you'd be dumbfounded.  Those aren't comparable, so I have no idea how you see a "contradiction." 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on January 02, 2020, 10:15:06 AM
You can hunt for it, but there is a lot of breaking news today regarding Disney strong-arming JJ and that the last film was not what JJ wanted, for the most part. Disney forced them to make a bunch of fan-service edits and such to the films. JJ didn't want the kiss at the end, apparently all of the old Jedi's actually showed up and filmed in costume and were supposed to surround Rey as force ghosts instead of just being disembodied voices, etc. I guess JJ had a 3 hour cut of the film and was forced to heavily edit it at Disney's order.

I have never been a big fan of Disney and this just adds to it. This goes along with the other news that I saw where Ryan Reynolds is now having to fight Disney for an R rating for Deadpool 3 and the ability to be involved in the creative process. Deadpool as PG-13? Nope, not interested.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 10:30:46 AM
It's a dumpster fire of a movie if you think for even a second about the logic used in this film.  Don't even have to go nitpicking - major plot beats make no logical sense :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 02, 2020, 10:33:56 AM
You can hunt for it, but there is a lot of breaking news today regarding Disney strong-arming JJ and that the last film was not what JJ wanted, for the most part. Disney forced them to make a bunch of fan-service edits and such to the films. JJ didn't want the kiss at the end, apparently all of the old Jedi's actually showed up and filmed in costume and were supposed to surround Rey as force ghosts instead of just being disembodied voices, etc. I guess JJ had a 3 hour cut of the film and was forced to heavily edit it at Disney's order.

I have never been a big fan of Disney and this just adds to it. This goes along with the other news that I saw where Ryan Reynolds is now having to fight Disney for an R rating for Deadpool 3 and the ability to be involved in the creative process. Deadpool as PG-13? Nope, not interested.

I'd wait to see how accurate all of that is. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it is to some degree. When JJ says that people criticising the movie are just as right as people who love it, you get that impression. But I can't see (and I might be wrong) Disney going "Wait...you want to feature all these great force ghosts in a huge amazing moment? NO! We demand you only use voices vaguely!!"

As far as Deadpool goes........Disney will never make an R rated film. They've said as much a billion times, so why is that shocking? If anything, Deadpool should just stay under Fox, so that Marvel can have their creative input but not be limited by the rating.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 02, 2020, 10:43:05 AM
Started watching the Mandalorian, really enjoying it so far.  It's nice to see something in this universe being done well and not over thinking, it's a simple story that is fun and compelling in the universe.  4 episodes in, probably watch the other four this weekend.  :yarr
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 02, 2020, 11:48:50 AM
I'm...I guess, dumbfounded that you'd be dumbfounded.  Those aren't comparable, so I have no idea how you see a "contradiction."

I'll try to point out what is clearly a blindspot for you - which, frankly, is any time anyone points out conflicting statements of yours.

Based on the posts a couple of weeks back, from your perspective it's completely ok for a Military Admiral (Holdo) to withhold vital information from her leadership, which ultimately caused a mutiny.  While I disagree with that perspective, I see/understand the point you're making.  Concurrently, based on your post summarizing TLJ, it appears you believe that it's perfectly acceptable military strategy to toy with and tease your enemy when there's a clear path to victory?  The commonality I'm drawing with these two events is simply in viewing them both in the context of military strategy.

You imply both are perfectly acceptable, and what I'm dumbfounded about is your belief the latter is a sound military tactic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 11:51:02 AM
One thing's for sure, things would've been different under Babu Frik's command.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 02, 2020, 11:54:21 AM
I gotta say, I think I like this movie less and less every time I read something from Chris Terrio. His recent statements about Palpatine really supported my worst hunches.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
I'm...I guess, dumbfounded that you'd be dumbfounded.  Those aren't comparable, so I have no idea how you see a "contradiction."

I'll try to point out what is clearly a blindspot for you - which, frankly, is any time anyone points out conflicting statements of yours.

Based on the posts a couple of weeks back, from your perspective it's completely ok for a Military Admiral (Holdo) to withhold vital information from her leadership, which ultimately caused a mutiny.  While I disagree with that perspective, I see/understand the point you're making.  Concurrently, based on your post summarizing TLJ, it appears you believe that it's perfectly acceptable military strategy to toy with and tease your enemy when there's a clear path to victory?  The commonality I'm drawing with these two events is simply in viewing them both in the context of military strategy.

You imply both are perfectly acceptable, and what I'm dumbfounded about is your belief the latter is a sound military tactic.

I think perhaps you just might be too invested in your incorrect position that every time I post something you disagree with, it must be because of a "blind spot" on my part.  The two things you posted aren't comparable, so there is no contradiction.  Sorry you don't get that, but that's okay.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on January 02, 2020, 12:13:15 PM
Don't mean to change the subject here, but I went and looked up some of the things that Deney Terrio has been saying, and...

Okay, I concede that I didn't see the film yet (nor The Last Jedi), but I'm not sure I'm on board with the spirit of some of the criticisms.  I get if there's a logical incontinuity, or if something is poorly executed (Hayden Christianson's acting), but I don't get arguing about creative choices like whether Rey is so-and-so's kid, or so-and-so's kid.  They have to make a choice, and it seems like someone is going to be happy/disappointed with any choice, regardless of what it is, so why bother making the movie if you're not going to commit?  And the corollary is, why want and watch the movie if you're not going to accept the creative choices that were made? 

I get it, there are exceptions to every rule, and I'm not suggesting that we have to LIKE everything, but there seems to be almost a... demand, for lack of a better word, that it have turned out in a different way.  It's one thing to say "wow, I found that unsatisfying", and why, but some of the criticisms really dig a lot deeper than that, and I think that's unfair to the producers (in the literal sense of the word, not the "capital P" producers of the film). 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 02, 2020, 12:23:59 PM
@ Bosk... First, I believe I simply explained why I was dumbfounded - and there is no right-vs-wrong when someone expresses confusion or surprise or dismay.  Yet, you completely disregarded my post just to point out how you're right, and I'm wrong. Talk about being invested in one's own position.

What I'm trying to say is that the comparison is in military tactics.  Exhibit A) Holdo witholding information.  Exhibit B) Toying/teasing the enemy.  If you are saying these two events from the movie are not comparable as military tactics, then I'm even more confused.

I'll take the rest of it to PM.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 12:35:04 PM
I don't get arguing about creative choices like whether Rey is so-and-so's kid, or so-and-so's kid.  They have to make a choice, and it seems like someone is going to be happy/disappointed with any choice, regardless of what it is, so why bother making the movie if you're not going to commit?  And the corollary is, why want and watch the movie if you're not going to accept the creative choices that were made? 

I have a great multitude of thoughts on all of this chunk of text.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on January 02, 2020, 12:51:50 PM
Well, I'd like to hear it, because this is a fluid subject, and certainly subject to perception. I even find myself going both ways on this, because there's not a hard and fast line.    I'm really operating on a general feeling that some of the criticisms seem very unfair/unwarranted when phrased like they are. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 02, 2020, 12:59:42 PM
Well, I'd like to hear it, because this is a fluid subject, and certainly subject to perception. I even find myself going both ways on this, because there's not a hard and fast line.    I'm really operating on a general feeling that some of the criticisms seem very unfair/unwarranted when phrased like they are.

As I said before, I have no interest in debating the TROS specifically, but to address your overall point, are you saying that all creative decisions have to be accepted without criticism and that people should only be allowed to criticize poor construction of said ideas (such as bad acting, technical stuff, inconsistent internal logic etc)?

Cause, no. I mean, obviously some people want things to go one way and get upset if that doesn't happen, but there's PLENTY of legit criticism of ideas.

I mean, if Godfather ended with Marlon Brando dying and then having exploding diarrhea for 15 minutes on screen, I feel like we can be free to call that a pretty dumb decision in the movie. We can't just look to criticize the ability of Brando to effectively defecate on screen etc.

Maybe it's a philosophical difference. That's cool. In which case I'd suggest just not engaging in it, as opposed to telling others that their criticism is either wrong or not allowed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 01:05:57 PM
Well, I'd like to hear it, because this is a fluid subject, and certainly subject to perception. I even find myself going both ways on this, because there's not a hard and fast line.    I'm really operating on a general feeling that some of the criticisms seem very unfair/unwarranted when phrased like they are.

I could write them down, but you haven't even seen The Last Jedi or The Rise of Skywalker, so it's pointless to do so unless you want every beat of the films spoiled for you.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2020, 01:14:49 PM
Speaking of film criticism, the "Half in the Bag" review for Rise of Skywalker came up again in my playlist and started playing, so I let it go.  I was reminded repeatedly why I (1) don't typically waste my time listening to them, and (2) turned this one off about 2 minutes in the first time it came up.  I don't think it's even possible to be more pretentious, full of oneself, and factually wrong about the content of what one is actually reviewing than these guys.  :lol  I tend to figuratively roll my eyes when folks throw around terms like "dumpster fire" to describe something.  But, man, what a dumpster fire that review was!  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 01:19:00 PM
Speaking of film criticism, the "Half in the Bag" review for Rise of Skywalker came up again in my playlist and started playing, so I let it go.  I was reminded repeatedly why I (1) don't typically waste my time listening to them, and (2) turned this one off about 2 minutes in the first time it came up.  I don't think it's even possible to be more pretentious, full of oneself, and factually wrong about the content of what one is actually reviewing than these guys.  :lol  I tend to figuratively roll my eyes when folks throw around terms like "dumpster fire" to describe something.  But, man, what a dumpster fire that review was!  :lol

SPOILERS for people like Stadler...




Keep in mind this guy also literally said Rise of Skywalker has no flaws, so either he's got blinders on or his ability to critically think has taken a beating. A few questions off the top of my head. Explain C3PO's Sith block. Why on earth would Anakin include that as a little kid? HOW, even, would he program him with that information? Why does the Sith dagger magically fit the wreckage of the Death Star, from that very convenient specific location, like an Indiana Jones fanfic? Why do they act like flying Storm Troopers is something new? What purpose did Finn serve in this film? Where did they set up Palpatine's connections to this trilogy in the other two films? What was the point of introducing Zorii Bliss, who served zero purpose in this film? How did everybody on the Resistance's side make it to Exogol and back when it was shown to be a massive PITA getting there in the first place? Why is the Death Star wreckage even there after we all saw it vaporized? Why bring back a character who had no reason to be back if not because they had no idea where they were going with this trilogy's story?




END SPOILERS


I don't think those are all minor points, several of them are major plot elements that do not make sense or have a satisfying logical answer. And it doesn't sit well with me to just brush them off and 'not think too much about it' because they are presenting this saga as something with some weight to it, an epic tale. And epic tales without consistent internal logic bother the hell out of me. People call this nitpicking but I vehemently disagree because it's stuff that isn't even consistent with Star Wars's own internal logic.

The RLM video is sarcastic and certainly loves to mock the trilogy, however, they raise a GREAT many points about why this film is problematic on a fundamental level. And just as silly as you think it is for me to complain about this movie, bosk (as I've raised points to you about this movie that you have brushed aside as either 'nitpicking' or me just looking for reasons to tear it apart), I think it's silly for you to label their very thorough dissection of the film as a 'dumpster fire.' At least they aren't blindly showering it with praise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2020, 01:34:55 PM
To answer the questions you raised:
nitpicking
:dunno:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 01:37:18 PM
You know, you PMed me recently over a discussion in this thread, and you said, "Don't you think you're overreacting just a little?" when I took offense to the way you talked to me. But no, I don't think I did, especially when you give real shitty replies like that one you just made. I have several times now brought up valid arguments and you refuse to acknowledge them and only want to be a smartass. That's real cool, bosk.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2020, 01:39:05 PM
Dude, knock off the namecalling.  There's no call for that.  If you don't like what I (or anyone) am saying about the movies, you can ignore it. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on January 02, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
Well, I'd like to hear it, because this is a fluid subject, and certainly subject to perception. I even find myself going both ways on this, because there's not a hard and fast line.    I'm really operating on a general feeling that some of the criticisms seem very unfair/unwarranted when phrased like they are.

As I said before, I have no interest in debating the TROS specifically, but to address your overall point, are you saying that all creative decisions have to be accepted without criticism and that people should only be allowed to criticize poor construction of said ideas (such as bad acting, technical stuff, inconsistent internal logic etc)?

Cause, no. I mean, obviously some people want things to go one way and get upset if that doesn't happen, but there's PLENTY of legit criticism of ideas.

I mean, if Godfather ended with Marlon Brando dying and then having exploding diarrhea for 15 minutes on screen, I feel like we can be free to call that a pretty dumb decision in the movie. We can't just look to criticize the ability of Brando to effectively defecate on screen etc.

Maybe it's a philosophical difference. That's cool. In which case I'd suggest just not engaging in it, as opposed to telling others that their criticism is either wrong or not allowed.

I do understand your point and I agree with it; there's a line there somewhere.  I'm not speaking broadly.   But - and I'll try to stay away from the new trilogy to not inflame - I get questioning deep rooted character issues; your Brando example (lovely visual, BTW), or the questioning of Jaime Lanister's motivations in Game Of Thrones, or Anakin's rationale for his hissy fit/flipping to the Dark Side.   But I think there's a level at which the criticisms become less about arc and continuity, and more about personal choice.   Jon sleeping with Danearys; Michael vis-a-vis Kay; Darth Vader force-choking his subordinates.  None of those are out-of-character or otherwise illogical.   We can certainly debate where that line is, but I think it does exist.

(And by the way, DEEP appreciation for those still taking the care to be respectful.  I know some of the plot points, not all, and  your respect is valued by me.  I'm hoping to see the film in the next few days, this weekend at the latest.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 01:41:01 PM
Dude, knock off the namecalling.  There's no call for that.  If you don't like what I (or anyone) am saying about the movies, you can ignore it.

No. I've told you in PM several times about the way you make people feel when you reply to them in a discussion, and your response is always some baffled, "I never possibly ever could see my words in that light, and the problem probably lies with you" type of excuse. When I put effort into a reply raising valid arguments that you could respond to like everybody else does, because we're discussing a piece of entertainment, you go out of your way again to shrug it off and mock it. And just like I predicted, you turn it around and try to make me look bad. And you wonder why I get angry when we disagree?

I have told you the very same thing about "if you don't like [this], ignore it" and you even agreed to that. So why doesn't this apply to you? Your 'dumpster fire' comment was clearly piggybacking off something I wrote, because you took offense to me criticizing a movie you enjoy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2020, 01:48:39 PM
Namecalling is out of bounds, period.  Always.  If anybody did it to you, I'd be saying the same thing to them.  You can either follow the rules and stop, or I will put a stop to it.  Now, for the last time, stop derailing the SW discussion with your personal attacks.  That's the last I'll say on that subject.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 01:49:33 PM
There's a whole bunch of conversation about Star Wars in my post that isn't derailing at all. You could address those "non-flaws" if you want, or you can mock my post again with a shrug emoji. Your call, Warden.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ZirconBlue on January 02, 2020, 01:50:14 PM




As far as Deadpool goes........Disney will never make an R rated film. They've said as much a billion times, so why is that shocking? If anything, Deadpool should just stay under Fox, so that Marvel can have their creative input but not be limited by the rating.



"On a call with investors, Disney Chairman and CEO Bob Iger said that Disney will continue to make R-rated Deadpool movies and other adult-oriented Marvel adventures after it absorbs much of Fox."


Source (https://variety.com/2019/film/news/disney-deadpool-marvel-r-rated-1203129498/)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 02, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
Yes. But not under the Disney banner. Fox is still around.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2020, 02:03:39 PM
There's a whole bunch of conversation about Star Wars in my post that isn't derailing at all.

And that part of your post is fine.  That does not render you above the forum rules for parts of your post that are violations.  So keep it within the rules.

As far as addressing your questions, I can if you really want me to.  But, again, I'm not really fussed by those points and just see them as "nitpicking," as you put it.  If you want my thoughts on each specific point, I mean, I guess that's fine. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 02:06:14 PM
There's a whole bunch of conversation about Star Wars in my post that isn't derailing at all.

And that part of your post is fine.  That does not render you above the forum rules for parts of your post that are violations.  So keep it within the rules.

As far as addressing your questions, I can if you really want me to.  But, again, I'm not really fussed by those points and just see them as "nitpicking," as you put it.  If you want my thoughts on each specific point, I mean, I guess that's fine.

How is it nitpicking to ask a legitimate question about one of the major story beats of the film?

The C3PO Sith translation thing. That's how they get to the damn final planet, without C3PO they're screwed. But it literally makes no sense why he would have that ability or information. How is that nitpicking? This is a legitimate issue with the plot.

This is what I mean. The movie is fine if you turn your brain off and drool on yourself a little, but think at all about how this all works together and it falls apart. The plot is as structurally sound as the Death Star currently is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 02, 2020, 02:39:55 PM
Anny was a good boy, I'm sure he had good intentions when building that into C3PO.  I don't think I ever thought much about that honestly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 02:45:32 PM
Right but he didn't even know what a Sith was so how could he have programmed the language into C3PO is what my beef is. The internal logic doesn't work. Like even if he knew it, somehow, Annie still wouldn't have the awareness to have it then blocked.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
Kox, I have a whoooooole lot of issues with the movie, but this is a strange hill to die on.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 02:55:43 PM
Kox, I have a whoooooole lot of issues with the movie, but this is a strange hill to die on.

I'm not dying on it. It's just one of many glaring issues with the film, that I've tried pointing out to bosk several times, and it only seems that way because Bosk would rather be passive aggressive and make snarky shrug responses instead of addressing the valid conversation points I bring up (despite his insistence on many other occasions that that kind of dismissive behavior is frowned upon).  The film has a lot of other bigger issues, like Palpatine coming back with no setup.

Trust me, I'm actively trying to not list all the many issues with this one. Like I said, it's a fun movie with amazing sound and visuals. But it makes no sense even on its own terms. But any criticism is dismissed as nitpicking. I'm pushing back on that because I think that isn't fair.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 02, 2020, 02:57:46 PM
Katt... it's a valid criticism but not one that busts my nut - I'm sure over 50 years, C3PO had upgrades or add-ons or whatever.  Hell, even Windows gets a patch every few months  :biggrin:.  There are enough *bigger* things to scratch my head over that this one flew under my radar.  It was dumb, but I wasn't bothered enough to think about *how* dumb. 

I've had this post brewing for a while, so forgive me for bringing up some old comments.

*Finn-not-telling Rey whatever it was* Not everything needs a payoff.  Real life isn't poor storytelling.[/size]

You’re absolutely right.  But this isn’t real life - a fictional movie is storytelling.  If I want real life, I’ll go outside :lol.  I go to the movies to have someone else (visually) tell me a story.  So yes, opening this door, then never addressing it is poor story telling. Same with how Maz got the lightsaber.  Also, wasn’t said lightsaber torn in two in TLJ.  How did it make a comeback?  Or am I forgetting/missing something?

To me, ROS was such a great film and so superior to TLJ to me that I feel like TLJ really suffers in comparison.  :dunno:  Oh well.  :lol

Well, TROS didn’t have a high bar to step over.

I have quite a few beefs about this movie (not as many as with TLJ), but since this isn’t “Festivus”, I’m not going to air all my grievances.  I’ll just bring up one topic - one that has been repeatedly lamented about:  timing.  First, wasn’t the message from the ‘spy’  that there was 16 hours until this new fleet would launch?  How did all of the events of this movie happen in the span of 16 hours?  Hell, it would’ve takin Rey a few hours just to sail to and climb up the crashed Death Star.  Second, I’m having trouble accepting Palpatine could recruit the personnel to build that many ships in 35-ish years.  Lastly… the Rebel ‘fleet’.  Chewie / Lando flew around the galaxy and got the message out to bring in what looked like at least a few hundred (perhaps a thousand?) ships in an hour or so?  Side note… (and Katt references this) twice during the movie, it was made to be a big deal about how difficult and treacherous it was to fly in to Exagol, so how did that many ships arrive so quickly and easily?

But overall, I was far more entertained with this than I was with TLJ.  6.5/10 seems about right.  TioJorge said it best.

t felt like this wasn't so much as what should have been a great goodbye to the series, but a cleanup project that ended up leaving a decent amount of smudges behind.

Really, I'm just looking forward to this being over with and now that they seem to have fulfilled at least attempting to tie a bow on things, they can move on to exploring some truly interesting worlds and new characters without being so limited by previous works. Hopefully they'll have an actual plan this time. That is really the only thing that irks me is that...it's a trilogy. It should've had a beginning, a middle, and an end planned out. It is sooooo painfully apparent that they did not have that. At all. That...is a bit odd, considering the material.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 02, 2020, 02:59:05 PM
At the end of the prequel trilogy his memory was wiped. That's when he got the No Sith update as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 03:01:53 PM
At the end of the prequel trilogy his memory was wiped. That's when he got the No Sith update as well.

Thank you. I hadn't thought of that, and it could potentially make sense, I suppose (I'm not immediately thinking of anything that could get in the way of that working).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2020, 03:07:28 PM
OK, two things:

1.  Stadler can read this first part if he so chooses, because no spoilers in this first paragraph.  I view the questions you posted as "nitpicking" because...well, because that's my opinion of what you posted, that's all.  Most of those are simply unanswered questions.  But none of them do anything to somehow make the film of any lesser quality.  You are certainly entitled to feel that they are more than that.  And you are certainly entitled to not like the film because of that.  But to feel that anyone who disagrees must somehow lack your mental faculties or level of discernment is pretty rude and pretentious.  But no need to beat a dead horse on that.

Many of the issues you raise are simply unanswered questions.  Yeah, you and others might find it unsatisfactory that some questions are not answered.  But most of those just aren't a big deal to me, and I don't see them as a reason to criticize the film.  It's kind of like getting wound up over a particular unnamed beach goer in Jaws, and criticizing the film because certain questions about that person aren't answered.  "But WHY was the woman in the blue jacket on the beach to begin with?  Why was she wearing a jacket if she was at the beach in the first place?  That makes no sense to me whatsoever!  And what is her story?  Why doesn't she have a name in the end credits?  She is clearly important or she wouldn't have been in the film, so why isn't her back story explored at all?"  If someone has a burning desire to know the answers to those questions, and no knowing has an impact on their enjoyment of the film, so be it.  But those questions aren't important to me and do not impact MY enjoyment of the film. 

2.  SPOILERS BELOW!  Too many points to use tiny font, so just avert your eyes from the rest of this post if you haven't seen the film yet!  You've been warned!




















































Keep in mind this guy also literally said Rise of Skywalker has no flaws, so either he's got blinders on or his ability to critically think has taken a beating.
???  Not sure I follow.

Explain C3PO's Sith block. Why on earth would Anakin include that as a little kid? HOW, even, would he program him with that information?

Are you asking ME to explain it, or expressing that there is no explanation?  If the former, I can't.  There was no explanation given, so how could I?  It wasn't explained, but I also don't feel like we, the audience, needed it to be explained.  See my "unanswered questions" point above.  If it bothers you that it wasn't explored or explained, that's cool.  The film makers did not see fit to provide an answer, and at least some in the audience, myself included, do not feel that one is needed.  If I were to dwell on it and posit possible explanations myself, a few come to mind.  But as a preliminary point, none of them necessitate that Anakin provided that programming.  He was put forth as someone who was adept at building, not necessarily programming.  I never really put any thought into how he would have programmed C3PO.  But if I had to go back and retroactively speculate, I would assume that he put the parts together, and the protocol droid processor had all the intricate layers of 3PO's programming already installed (or maybe he got a chip or a download after the fact or something), and then he just custom tweaked a few basic things to make 3PO "his."  I dunno.  Truth be told, I think the whole plot point of Anakin building 3PO was kinda dumb to begin with.  But that is a prequel problem that the SW universe is stuck with now.  But in any case, that particular protocol seems like it would logically have been one little bit of programming that came as part of the "protocol droid software package" that would have been installed at some point (whether initially, or a later "software package upgrade," or after his memory was wiped, or whenever), and not something Anakin would have had any reason to custom install. 

Why does the Sith dagger magically fit the wreckage of the Death Star, from that very convenient specific location, like an Indiana Jones fanfic?

See "unanswered questions" above.  No biggie.  And, again, my answer is: I don't know, and don't really care.  My speculation, if I felt the need to speculate, is that either (1) [seems to me more likely] the dagger was created, or at least modified to also serve as a map to the wayfinder, after the Battle of Endor and thus after the wreckage found its way there.  Or (2) the force guided its past creator to make it a certain shape because it would correspond to that future wreckage and play a part in the series of events the force was guiding to happen.  But again, I don't really need to know the answer to that.  It doesn't impact my ability to enjoy the film.  And I'm going to stop repeating that now, because it applies to all of these points.

Why do they act like flying Storm Troopers is something new?

Because...from what we've seen in the SW films up to this point, storm troopers using jet packs (or, at least, that type of jet pack) is something new.  Why is that, of all things, a problem?  I don't understand.  ???

What purpose did Finn serve in this film?

What do you mean by that?  There are a lot of different directions to go with that, and I'm not sure I want to speculate about what you mean and write a treatise that I don't have time to write.  Suffice to say that, if he didn't play the role you thought he should have, so what?  If he was underdeveloped and "wasted" as a character given the potential they set up in earlier films, then yeah, kind of a bummer.  But, again, so what?  Why is that a HUGE problem vs. a mere annoyance that a character you like or think should have been developed a certain way wasn't?

Where did they set up Palpatine's connections to this trilogy in the other two films?

They didn't.  At least, not directly.  Again, why is that a major issue?  They didn't set up in IV or V that Ewoks would have a connection to the OT prior to them magically appearing on the scene in ep. VI either.  That's just how things work.  Yes, this is perhaps more of an issue, because many feel that it was not decided on until after ep. VIII, and they are bothered that such a major plot point was not already decided upon by Kathleen Kennedy or others when they were mapping out the whole thing.  Maybe that's true.  Maybe they DID decide on that, or were at least leaning that direction earlier, but didn't want to even give the slightest hint beforehand.  I can't say.  But I also don't really need for that to have been the case to enjoy this film or any of the ones that preceded it.

What was the point of introducing Zorii Bliss, who served zero purpose in this film?

Well, I think your point isn't that she served "zero" purpose, because she obviously served as a plot device.  I think your point is that her purpose was so minor that we didn't need a new character to do anything she did, and that it could have been anybody.  That's a completely fair point.  She didn't need to exist as a character.  But, again, so what?  Neither did Blue Jacket Beachgoer in Jaws.  And on and on.  So what?  Yeah, as a creative decision, in retrospect, the film could have been trimmed down and been more streamlined and had less distractions if a different creative decision had been made.  But at the end of the day, again, that's just a creative decision that arguably might have been done better.  You don't like it.  Some do.  Some don't care one way or the other.  So what?  How is any one of those opinions somehow superior to another?

How did everybody on the Resistance's side make it to Exogol and back when it was shown to be a massive PITA getting there in the first place?

Dunno.  See "unanswered questions" above.  I think it was kind of implied that when they sent out the "we need everybody to come and fight" message, they sent it with instructions on where to go and how to get there, which were derived from the wayfinder.  Or something like that.

Why is the Death Star wreckage even there after we all saw it vaporized?

Because, although not believable given what the explosion looked like, it served a plot purpose and they expect us to suspend our belief somewhat.   :biggrin:  Yeah, that may be a bit of a cop out.  But films, whether Star Wars or not, ask us to make those sort of suspensions of belief all the time.  If that leap was too big for some, I get it.  But it seems like a relatively minor one in comparison to others the SW films have asked the audience to make.  Honestly, expecting wreckage of something THAT large to end up on nearby moons after it was blown up seems a lot LESS of a stretch than, say, humans and human-sized aliens having developed on COUNTLESS worlds throughout a galaxy.  At some point, you have to either accept these kinds of things or just admit that this genre of films isn't for you. 

Kind of a related point:  To me, if anything, viewing parts of the wreckage being on nearby moons of the same planet as a "flaw" is less a flaw in Rise of Skywalker as it is simply making us retroactively understanding that there was a flaw in Return of the Jedi for having it look like the reactor exploding would have completely vaporized all parts of that gigantic space station in the first place.  But, again, I'm willing to overlook that.  Those kinds of things are just inherent in this type of film and you either roll with it or you don't.

Why bring back a character who had no reason to be back if not because they had no idea where they were going with this trilogy's story?

I'm not sure I understand.  Are you talking about Palpatine, or something else?  If Palpatine, didn't we already address that point above?  Or am I missing something?


EDIT:  Well, shoot, others posted while I was typing that, so apologies for any duplication if others have said anything I am now saying.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 03:12:06 PM
Y'know I appreciate you taking the time to - finally, for a change - respond in detail, but you upset me so badly earlier that I really don't even care to read it at this point, tbh; could've helped if you had done that at the start. Thanks though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2020, 03:21:45 PM
... it only seems that way because Bosk would rather be passive aggressive and make snarky shrug responses instead of addressing the valid conversation points I bring up

Dude, there's no intent to be passive aggressive or snarky.  It's just that, to me, most of the criticisms I have seen are just nitpicking.  If you feel otherwise, and you don't like the film, that's fine.  But a good many people feel that those are nitpicks that don't move the needle and make the film somehow inferior.  And I don't really feel the need to justify those little points.  It's more your propensity to say that anyone who dares disagree with you must somehow be mentally deficient for not agreeing with the almighty opinion of Katt that I object to.  Dude, we all have opinions.  Just get off the high horse and let others have theirs without attacking their mental faculties.  Or, as Jingle put it:

Katt... it's a valid criticism but not one that busts my nut

It's your prerogative to be bothered by this stuff.  But you can't expect everyone else to be bothered by what bothers you, and, respectfully, it's kinda pretentious to practically demand others to be.



Anyhow, moving on to this...

I’ll just bring up one topic - one that has been repeatedly lamented about:  timing.  First, wasn’t the message from the ‘spy’  that there was 16 hours until this new fleet would launch?  How did all of the events of this movie happen in the span of 16 hours?  Hell, it would’ve takin Rey a few hours just to sail to and climb up the crashed Death Star.  ...

Yeah, I've made that criticism myself, several times.  I don't remember whether I specifically mentioned it in connection with this film, but it certainly applies, both to things you mentioned, and to others you have not.  It bugs me and is one of my overarching criticisms of this entire series of films.  But the problem is that it is SO pervasive--not only in these films, but in others as well.  It just seems like modern storytellers have gotten lazy in this regard.  But I can't hold it specifically against this particular film when the entire 9 film saga, as well as its spinoffs, has the same problem.  And the MCU has it.  And Harry Potter.  And...etc.  It is what it is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 02, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
EDIT: forget it. Not doing myself any favors here trying to talk to you, just gonna get a ban
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2020, 03:31:14 PM
One last time:  It's a Star Wars thread.  Not a "take shots at bosk" thread.  As many times as I've had to tell you to not make it personal, the next time you do, no matter how minor, it is going to get you booted from here, because I'm tired of having to repeat myself and give you warnings.  You can complain all you want about whether you think that's fair or hypocritical or whatever.  I don't care.  I've told you to stop, and I've given you fair warning that, minor or not, I'm not going to keep repeating that.  Do with that information what you choose.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 02, 2020, 03:31:50 PM
I had some problems with the film, but most of those aren't on my list.

The film certainly isn't perfect, but NONE of them pass the Godfather test, so that's fine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: DoctorAction on January 02, 2020, 03:40:08 PM
I enjoyed it. Have enjoyed all of the last trilogy but TLJ the least. Some opinions:

Rey, Po and Finn all seemed to have relaxed into it now, but Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver have really been terrific.

It's nice that the franchise has recovered from the awful prequel trilogy.

I totally get that there are awkward holes in this movie but Star Wars has never been deep afaic so nothing burned me. I'm infinitely more invested in Star Trek. Can't wait for more Discovery (omg talk about a series with massive holes and issues that was still really enjoyable) and Picard.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 02, 2020, 03:56:53 PM
Katt... it's a valid criticism but not one that busts my nut

It's your prerogative to be bothered by this stuff.  But you can't expect everyone else to be bothered by what bothers you, and, respectfully, it's kinda pretentious to practically demand others to be.

I was trying to let all this shit slide, but I'm not so good at that.  Since you've quoted me, please point out when, where, and how ANYONE (ie, me and Katt since we're the two most vocal on this issue) have been rude, pretentious, or "expect" / "practically demand" others to be bothered the way we are.  Please quote the direct post/text that you drew this conclusion from.

Also, Doctor ... don't derail the thread by bringing up Star Trek.  Stay on topic



 :lol :lol

jk
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on January 03, 2020, 04:26:22 AM
After thinking about this way too much and after 2 viewings, I think TROS is a bit of a mess. But nevertheless I think it does the important story beats very well.

Spolers if someone has not seen it already

Rey Palpatine is a big logic leap, but in the end I kinda liked it, and it brings her story into a nice conclusion. Kylo's redemption was done well, but like everything in this movie it feels a bit rushed. There is too much story in this movie! So much so that the best moments almost get drowned into the stream of events that happen very quickly. But overall this movie, even with it's numerous problems, manages to bring everything into a relatively nice conclusion. I hope the Skywalker Saga is done and they won't open the can of worms again with Episode 10...

I will buy the rumored 4K Blu Ray boxset of the entire "Skywalker Saga" when it becomes available, and I'm eager to see this again.


And here is my current ranking with TROS:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope

3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Last Jedi

6. Solo
7. Rogue One
8. The Rise of Skywalker
9. Revenge of the Sith

10. The Phantom Menace

11. Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on January 03, 2020, 06:43:49 AM
And the Skywalker Saga 4K Blu-Ray Boxset is no longer a rumor it seems! :lol

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-skywalker-saga-4k-uhd-box-set-up-for-pre/1100-6472454/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 03, 2020, 06:50:40 AM
And the Skywalker Saga 4K Blu-Ray Boxset is no longer a rumor it seems! :lol

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-skywalker-saga-4k-uhd-box-set-up-for-pre/1100-6472454/

I saw that. I think I'm just going to purchase the single 4K editions. Will look better in my collection.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on January 03, 2020, 06:52:01 AM
Whoa.  $250 for a 27-disc boxed set is actually a hell of a deal.  For me, it would come down to which version(s) of the OT are included.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 03, 2020, 07:08:00 AM
For me, it would come down to which version(s) of the OT are included.

This 100%. If they include the un-altered original versions of the OT, then I would gladly pay that package deal price to have them.

Other than that I already own the ones I want so we'll see.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Grappler on January 03, 2020, 07:42:25 AM
Are you asking ME to explain it, or expressing that there is no explanation?  If the former, I can't.  There was no explanation given, so how could I?  It wasn't explained, but I also don't feel like we, the audience, needed it to be explained. 

I think this is the crux of every Star Wars complaint over the last 4 years.  In 1977, the original movie came out and viewers were quite literally dropped into the middle of a story.  Things were already happening...we got the opening crawl and then the film starts with the action already in progress.  There was no explanation of anything in the Star Wars universe.  We didn't get a history of Jedi Knights for a long time, or even Vader's backstory until the third film.  Even then it was just an adjustment of "Vader did kill Anakin...from a certain point of view." 

Now some fans DEMAND a detailed explanation of who characters are (SNOKE MUST BE DARTH PLAGEUS, GIVE ME HIS BACKSTORY AND IF HE ISN'T PLAGEUS I'M GOING TO RIOT) or small details in each film.  If something goes unexplained, or if the Legend stories aren't shoehorned into the films to make them canon again, fans seem to be too frustrated and forget to just sit back and enjoy the ride. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 03, 2020, 08:58:50 AM
Are you asking ME to explain it, or expressing that there is no explanation?  If the former, I can't.  There was no explanation given, so how could I?  It wasn't explained, but I also don't feel like we, the audience, needed it to be explained. 

I think this is the crux of every Star Wars complaint over the last 4 years.  In 1977, the original movie came out and viewers were quite literally dropped into the middle of a story.  Things were already happening...we got the opening crawl and then the film starts with the action already in progress.  There was no explanation of anything in the Star Wars universe.  We didn't get a history of Jedi Knights for a long time, or even Vader's backstory until the third film.  Even then it was just an adjustment of "Vader did kill Anakin...from a certain point of view." 

Now some fans DEMAND a detailed explanation of who characters are (SNOKE MUST BE DARTH PLAGEUS, GIVE ME HIS BACKSTORY AND IF HE ISN'T PLAGEUS I'M GOING TO RIOT) or small details in each film.  If something goes unexplained, or if the Legend stories aren't shoehorned into the films to make them canon again, fans seem to be too frustrated and forget to just sit back and enjoy the ride. 

It seems to me like no one can agree on what information is actually necessary. For example, someone mentioned a few pages ago that they wanted to know how Luke's light saber was recovered. In my opinion, that doesn't really matter, and if they tried explaining it, there would be significant disaster potential. But I know that a lot of people would strongly disagree with me on that point. There's no consensus on anything.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 03, 2020, 09:07:46 AM
I think part of the problem is Star Wars' massive widespread appeal and just how many people as a result don't care quite as much about the finer details as others. Like, there are people who are bigger Star Wars fans than I am who don't have the issues I have with the series. That's totally cool. I just don't like when complaints about things that don't jibe with other films are labeled as 'nitpicking.' Game of Thrones was eviscerated by a large chunk of its fandom for the decisions characters would make in the last two seasons. I don't know why that seems to be problematic when it's Star Wars. But, oh well. Everybody's different.

I'm actually of the belief that these films aren't able to do Star Wars justice anymore. I've felt for a long time that HBO-style series with massive budgets would be a better fit, because that's roughly 10 hours of screentime vs. 2 or 2.5. Mandalorian knocked it out of the park. Honestly I think it would be really cool if the next 'Episode' film (Episode X, that is) was actually spread across an entire Disney+ season, y'know? Like, I'm sure this won't happen, but they could announce a new series that would effectively serve as the next 'trilogy.' Episode X could then be told across the first season, then the second season would be Episode XI... it would allow so much more time for story and character development and they could fit all the stuff in that they just don't have time for in the flicks.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on January 03, 2020, 09:16:37 AM
Great points, Firewings. It's probably why I am so much more a TV guy than a movie guy. I appreciate the slow burn and build-up of a story arc over a season. I gravitate to TV way more than movies and probably for that reason.

And with the plethora of amazing TV on streaming services these days, I honestly have very little desire to watch movies. It takes a lot to drag me into a movie now. When I was younger, I probably saw 2 or 3 movies a month in the theater. Now I might go every other year and that's it. There's something to say about storybuilding and movies just don't have that luxury.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 03, 2020, 09:18:23 AM
Right? I'm trying to imagine The Witcher, for example, as a 2.5 hour movie instead of the full season that just came out. It wouldn't work nearly as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 03, 2020, 09:19:02 AM
I just don't like when complaints about things that don't jibe with other films are labeled as 'nitpicking.'

OK.  But, if I may ask, why?  "Nitpicking" isn't a bad word.  There's literally zero negative connotation to it and zero insult factor to it.  So why does it bother you?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 03, 2020, 09:20:11 AM
I just don't like when complaints about things that don't jibe with other films are labeled as 'nitpicking.'

OK.  But, if I may ask, why?  "Nitpicking" isn't a bad word.  There's literally zero negative connotation to it and zero insult factor to it.  So why does it bother you?

The definition of nitpicking (which you'll see does not have 'literally zero negative connotation' to it):

"looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily."

I don't think some of the stuff I find problematic is 'small or unimportant' and I certainly don't think I've been criticizing it unnecessarily. That's why it bothers me and why the way you've framed my criticism bothers me. That's all. EDIT: I could discuss this in PM with you more if you want, but I'm not very interested in rehashing yesterday's kerfuffle, please
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 03, 2020, 09:54:03 AM
"Nitpicking" is obviously very subjective, as one person's unimportant detail could be another's important detail. In my opinion, not explaining The Emperor's resurrection is an example of a pretty important omission. The guy appeared to die in the most definitive way possible back in ROTJ, so it is important to me how he could still be alive. If the answer is simply that "stuff happens in Star Wars", then it kind of diminishes the whole thing, IMO. Star Wars has always kind of not made sense, but there was at least an effort being made. Not explaining something like The Emperor feels like giving up. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 03, 2020, 10:02:14 AM
 The Force Awakens would have been a much better movie if they didn't OFF Han Solo the way they did.   The Han Solo we all know would have never fallen for that trick.  They should have had him go out in a blaze of glory somehow..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on January 03, 2020, 10:04:03 AM
I had some problems with the film, but most of those aren't on my list.

The film certainly isn't perfect, but NONE of them pass the Godfather test, so that's fine.

Wait, what? 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on January 03, 2020, 10:05:45 AM
The Force Awakens would have been a much better movie if they didn't OFF Han Solo the way they did.   The Han Solo we all know would have never fallen for that trick.  They should have had him go out in a blaze of glory somehow..
He didn't fall for it. He knew fully well what was likely to happen when he confronted Ben. As a father, he had to try.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 03, 2020, 10:14:29 AM
The Force Awakens would have been a much better movie if they didn't OFF Han Solo the way they did.   The Han Solo we all know would have never fallen for that trick.  They should have had him go out in a blaze of glory somehow..
He didn't fall for it. He knew fully well what was likely to happen when he confronted Ben. As a father, he had to try.

Exactly. He knew the entire time that Ren would kill him. You see it in his face each of the two times Leai asks him to bring Ben home. He confronted Ren to save his son Ben full well knowing he’d most likely die not only out of the love for his son but for his love for Leai.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on January 03, 2020, 10:16:41 AM
I think part of the problem is Star Wars' massive widespread appeal and just how many people as a result don't care quite as much about the finer details as others. Like, there are people who are bigger Star Wars fans than I am who don't have the issues I have with the series. That's totally cool. I just don't like when complaints about things that don't jibe with other films are labeled as 'nitpicking.' Game of Thrones was eviscerated by a large chunk of its fandom for the decisions characters would make in the last two seasons. I don't know why that seems to be problematic when it's Star Wars. But, oh well. Everybody's different.

I think I've spoken to this before.  Star Wars was never intended - even in the expanded form - to be the equivalent of a  seven-novels-at-1000-pages-a-piece immersion.   It was at it's heart an homage to the serials of the 50's.   It never had sisters conceiving with their brother, fathers burning their daughters at the stake, etc. etc.  I think Lucas screwed himself with the prequels (particularly the first ep, the Phantom Menace) by implying it had that gravitas, but while there is a canon with the novels and what not, it wasn't ever intended to be that meticulous and intricate.   This is partly my point with the comments I made above; at some point, sure, if Luke becomes an incestuous crackhead with a parrot and a limp, it's one thing.  But I think there's a bit of leniency to be had here.  Just like when Leroy Jethro Gibbs gets blown to an inch of his life, and ends the episode in a hospital bed with tubes up his peepee, then the next episode is back at his desk with a bandaid on his cheek. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 03, 2020, 10:35:05 AM
I'm actually of the belief that these films aren't able to do Star Wars justice anymore. I've felt for a long time that HBO-style series with massive budgets would be a better fit, because that's roughly 10 hours of screentime vs. 2 or 2.5. Mandalorian knocked it out of the park. Honestly I think it would be really cool if the next 'Episode' film (Episode X, that is) was actually spread across an entire Disney+ season, y'know? Like, I'm sure this won't happen, but they could announce a new series that would effectively serve as the next 'trilogy.' Episode X could then be told across the first season, then the second season would be Episode XI... it would allow so much more time for story and character development and they could fit all the stuff in that they just don't have time for in the flicks.

This 1000%!!!  There's a trick to being able to pull off telling a story in 2-1/2 to 3 hours in the motion picture format. I said it a couple times in this SW 'debate'....I think one of the largest issues that SW faces is that it's facing a ton of incredible content that is available to us now....whereas 30+ years ago the only competition was other movies.....half of which weren't any good anyways.

The amount of awesome content and available platforms that are able to take their time and flesh out a character arc or story line 'spoils' us to the point of when a movie doesn't pull it off to those levels that we're used to.....and is just a 'movie'.....we nitpick. And we nitpick because the standard and the bar is pretty dang high these days....and in the case of a Disney backed movie there really should be no reason for any of their output to not be top notch.

For me....as I've stated a few times....I'm pretty much all good with the latest trilogy. Yes there are some issues with all the movies here and there....but I still enjoyed them all and am pretty happy with the way it all went down. But I can understand why some aren't.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 03, 2020, 10:40:52 AM
I just want to say that for all my problems with The Rise of Skywalker, it gave us our new lord and savior, Babu Frik. So, it did something VERY right. Long live Babu Frik!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on January 03, 2020, 10:52:19 AM
I just want to say that for all my problems with The Rise of Skywalker, it gave us our new lord and savior, Babu Frik. So, it did something VERY right. Long live Babu Frik!

(https://sm.mashable.com/t/mashable_sea/fun/t/these-are-/these-are-the-babu-frik-tweets-youre-looking-for_xmaj.960.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 03, 2020, 10:56:01 AM
The Force Awakens would have been a much better movie if they didn't OFF Han Solo the way they did.   The Han Solo we all know would have never fallen for that trick.  They should have had him go out in a blaze of glory somehow..
He didn't fall for it. He knew fully well what was likely to happen when he confronted Ben. As a father, he had to try.

Exactly. He knew the entire time that Ren would kill him. You see it in his face each of the two times Leai asks him to bring Ben home. He confronted Ren to save his son Ben full well knowing he’d most likely die not only out of the love for his son but for his love for Leai.
Still a lame way to go out, being killed by his loose cannon son!   I think it would have been better if Solo showed some tough love in that situation.  :corn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 03, 2020, 12:46:51 PM
I had some problems with the film, but most of those aren't on my list.

The film certainly isn't perfect, but NONE of them pass the Godfather test, so that's fine.

Wait, what?
The Godfather test.  "Could <insert movie> realistically have been made any better than it is?"

The only movies to which the answer to that question would be "No" are perfect movies.  The Godfather is one such example.  Hence, the Godfather test.

Not surprised you aren't familiar with it.  I made it up myself.



TLDR: none of the previous Star Wars films are perfect, so no one should be shocked that this one isn't either.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on January 03, 2020, 12:51:12 PM
I had some problems with the film, but most of those aren't on my list.

The film certainly isn't perfect, but NONE of them pass the Godfather test, so that's fine.

Wait, what?
The Godfather test.  "Could <insert movie> realistically have been made any better than it is?"

The only movies to which the answer to that question would be "No" are perfect movies.  The Godfather is one such example.  Hence, the Godfather test.

Not surprised you aren't familiar with it.  I made it up myself.



TLDR: none of the previous Star Wars films are perfect, so no one should be shocked that this one isn't either.

Haha, that got a laugh out loud.


For the record, I generally cite The Godfather as my favorite movie of all time (Dr. Zhivago is in the top five, as is Star Wars).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 03, 2020, 03:46:03 PM
Those are great choices.  My top 5 (depending on the day of course) would normally include The Godfather. Raiders of the Lost Ark, Citizen Kane, Casablanca, and Ghostbusters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 03, 2020, 10:09:16 PM
Just saw in the Clone Wars rewatch that Anakin actually pulled a Holdo long before she did when he crashed a battle cruiser into a Seperatist Battle ship to break through the blockade on Ryloth. He one upped her by escaping as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: LCArenas on January 03, 2020, 11:23:13 PM
Fuck it. I liked Rise of skywalker. Sure I didn't LOVE It, but it's not really the mess some people and critics on youtube are saying it is for me. And while I do understand some of the criticism of the film and agree with a decent amount of it (SPOILERS: Emperor is alive with no buildup whatsoever in the past two films, there is not a lot of time to grieve Chewie's death), almost all of the complaints I hear about the movie show us that most critics of TROS don't know what they wanted from this film. 

This is not entirely their fault: The Last Jedi kind of wrote the saga into a corner and left people dumbfounded. Remember all those theories After Force Awakens? Remember how there were almost no fan theories after TLJ and most of them were questions about how the hell were they going to save themselves from the plot points TLJ stated?

I believe there is no possible way that TROS would have given us a satisfying ending, and most of the complaints on it being about how poorly they handled the trilogy is my biggest reason to think that. I do believe there are things that TROS could have done better, But to be honest most of the suggestions and fixes the fans and critics say are equally or more awful than what we got. That says something.

TL;DR, Star Wars fans can be really obnoxious; and hef's Godfather test opinion is spot-on. Remember when the prequels sucked and everybody hated them? Apparently people love them now. Jesus Christ, have some criteria.

I'll toss my rankings of the main movies so far just for the heck of it:
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Star Wars (A New Hope)
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. The Force Awakens
6. Rise of Skywalker
7. The Phantom Menace
8. The Last Jedi
9. Attack of the Clones
I loved Rogue One, btw. Didn't care much for Solo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on January 04, 2020, 06:30:35 AM
What is the Godfather test?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on January 04, 2020, 10:54:19 AM
Seeing more and more people that were involved with the movie coming out and saying just how much footage was cut from the film. Apparently, a lot of the cut footage would have explained and answered a lot of the questions/complaints that people have but Disney decided was not necessary.

Either way, I did enjoy the film but it sure seems the backlash to Last Jedi really screwed with Disney. I find that funny since I have stated before that Last Jedi was my favorite of the trilogy. I loved how it challenged the fans and didn't fall into fan service.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on January 04, 2020, 12:13:07 PM
Hopefully they'll do a directors or extended cut of the film. I understand why Disney didn't want a three hour movie, but it's always a shame when the directors vision can't be seen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zook on January 04, 2020, 01:11:16 PM
Their last 3 hour movie made almost 3 billion dollars. Did they suddenly stop liking money?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 04, 2020, 01:33:35 PM
My biggest complaint with TROS was it felt too long and the first half dragged on. I think they should have cut more, the movie felt super bloated.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 04, 2020, 02:35:39 PM
The Last Jedi kind of wrote the saga into a corner and left people dumbfounded. Remember all those theories After Force Awakens? Remember how there were almost no fan theories after TLJ and most of them were questions about how the hell were they going to save themselves from the plot points TLJ stated?

I believe there is no possible way that TROS would have given us a satisfying ending, and most of the complaints on it being about how poorly they handled the trilogy is my biggest reason to think that.
This is kinda how I feel. Star Wars fans got the reputation for being whiny babies that they don't entirely deserve. They treated the movies like art and got treated like wallets. They wanted to see amazing stories and got kids' toys already in the first trilogy, and it kept getting worse. George Lucas kept editing the material because of his insane ego. They sat through three movies of shit prequels, bought and read EU material to only have it handwaved away as not canon anymore because a conglomerate literally bought Star Wars, said "okay I guess they have something better to do with this universe that other creators have been doing for so many years, let's hear them out" and got a trilogy where at the very least each succeeding movie disrespected the previous one, at least a little bit.

I'm not even in the fandom proper, and I feel kinda bad for fans, because when they pipe up to call a spade a spade (or, in cases of Rian and JJ, and JJ and Rian, call them two directors that don't entirely respect what the other did in the trilogy, two times over), they get called unreasonable haters. If Rey's parentage isn't important, why did they set up the mystery in the first movie, answer it perfectly (if not entirely congruently with the imagery of the first movie) in the second movie, and then negate the entire message that came with the answer in the third movie? It wasn't just a parentage reveal, it was a whole trilogy-defining moment in the message, and the third movie should have went with it, and it's not nitpicky to feel this way. At the very least, they didn't have to go with "oh btw Palps is alive and he has procreated", that's about as legitimate as "oh btw Luke has a son, there he is! oh and here is Toby wan Kenobi, Obi's nephew". And even before that, the second movie could have went with some stuff set up in TFA.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 04, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
For what it's worth, I totally thought since moment one that Kylo Ren was telling Rey a lie. I was not  "oh, so they made the artistic choice to have Rey's parents be a couple of nobodies", I was "naah, he's lying, he's GOTTA be lying".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on January 04, 2020, 02:57:10 PM
For what it's worth, I totally thought since moment one that Kylo Ren was telling Rey a lie. I was not  "oh, so they made the artistic choice to have Rey's parents be a couple of nobodies", I was "naah, he's lying, he's GOTTA be lying".
I always assumed it was either a lie or that Ren wasn't seeing it clearly. I always assumed that she had parents that were somehow important. Now, I think it would have been better if she were no one, but it doesn't bother me either way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 04, 2020, 03:44:07 PM
For what it's worth, I totally thought since moment one that Kylo Ren was telling Rey a lie. I was not  "oh, so they made the artistic choice to have Rey's parents be a couple of nobodies", I was "naah, he's lying, he's GOTTA be lying".
If I didn't know better, I would have thought Darth Vader was lying to Luke, and that's what ended up defining the movies. Going back on that in such a pivotal way feels a little weird. It's a great way to anchor the new trilogy in between the new and the old by saying "we told the Skywalker stories, but now we know the Force can come from anywhere, so next chapter we close this book so another one can begin". Now it's like "we killed the past in that depressing way... so now the past is dead and we don't have to continue these 20th century stories anymore... and at the same time we brought everything back together in a small-world-way because one of the last people standing is Palpy's offspring.... yay rejoice, aren't you happy and grateful".

I don't know what the whole trilogy is about. Maybe it's about chosen family and friendship, but why did the Finn/Rey camaraderie stop delivering past TFA, and why did Rey have so few meaningful moments with the Skywalkers? Can't criticize how everything turned out with the old guard seeing how Carrie left us in the middle of it, but coming out of TFA, I was certain Finn was the male lead (I'm not factoring potential romance into this); and it feels like a cynical marketing department decision to bump him down and give him stories that don't matter much at all, in favor of hotter commodity characters/more obedient actors who don't mouth off on Twitter a whole lot  ::)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on January 04, 2020, 05:29:47 PM
The Last Jedi kind of wrote the saga into a corner and left people dumbfounded. Remember all those theories After Force Awakens? Remember how there were almost no fan theories after TLJ and most of them were questions about how the hell were they going to save themselves from the plot points TLJ stated?

I believe there is no possible way that TROS would have given us a satisfying ending, and most of the complaints on it being about how poorly they handled the trilogy is my biggest reason to think that.
This is kinda how I feel. Star Wars fans got the reputation for being whiny babies that they don't entirely deserve. They treated the movies like art and got treated like wallets. They wanted to see amazing stories and got kids' toys already in the first trilogy, and it kept getting worse. George Lucas kept editing the material because of his insane ego. They sat through three movies of shit prequels, bought and read EU material to only have it handwaved away as not canon anymore because a conglomerate literally bought Star Wars, said "okay I guess they have something better to do with this universe that other creators have been doing for so many years, let's hear them out" and got a trilogy where at the very least each succeeding movie disrespected the previous one, at least a little bit.

I'm not even in the fandom proper, and I feel kinda bad for fans, because when they pipe up to call a spade a spade (or, in cases of Rian and JJ, and JJ and Rian, call them two directors that don't entirely respect what the other did in the trilogy, two times over), they get called unreasonable haters. If Rey's parentage isn't important, why did they set up the mystery in the first movie, answer it perfectly (if not entirely congruently with the imagery of the first movie) in the second movie, and then negate the entire message that came with the answer in the third movie? It wasn't just a parentage reveal, it was a whole trilogy-defining moment in the message, and the third movie should have went with it, and it's not nitpicky to feel this way. At the very least, they didn't have to go with "oh btw Palps is alive and he has procreated", that's about as legitimate as "oh btw Luke has a son, there he is! oh and here is Toby wan Kenobi, Obi's nephew". And even before that, the second movie could have went with some stuff set up in TFA.

"Toby wan Kenobi".  That's legendary.  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on January 04, 2020, 06:03:51 PM
"Toby wan Kenobi".  That's legendary.  :)

:lol


I don't think we'll ever know the truth about how much JJ and Rian did or did not share notes, respect each other's vision, or not, or how much Disney brass changed things anyway.  Or rather "forced" the changes upon them (ha ha).

But out of all the different analyses I've read (which admittedly isn't a whole lot) I read one thing that really stuck out.  It had to do with Rey and how she wields a light saber.  She thrusts with it, like a lot.  Nearly everybody wields a light saber like a sword, with attacks and parries which resemble fencing moves.  The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi were both on TV recently so we watched them again, and there it was: Rey holds the hilt and thrusts with her light saber.  Once it's pointed out, it's impossible to miss.  Who else did that?  Palpatine, in the PT.  They're the only two.  Darth Maul with the two-ended light saber used a technique based on a bo stick, which made perfect sense.  Other than that, everybody else slashes and cuts.  Rey thrusts with it, as Palpatine did.  This was in The Force Awakens, so she hadn't had any training yet; she just went with what felt natural.  Is it possible that JJ made this intentional choice back in TFA (and thus didn't just pull "Rey is a Palpatine" out of his ass in The Rise of Skywalker)?

What I haven't done is go back and watch the PT (because who would do that, willingly?) to find a Palpatine fight and double-check things.  But if true, we have a theory with supporting evidence right there in the films.  Or maybe just a coincidence anyway.  :|
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 05, 2020, 02:41:43 AM
Most likely the guy who trained her in fighting scenes was the same guy who trained Ian McDiarmid back in the day, or by happenstance Daisy felt more at ease doing those kind of moves and her trainer went along with that. But hey, one can dream  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 05, 2020, 07:06:45 AM
The Last Jedi kind of wrote the saga into a corner and left people dumbfounded. Remember all those theories After Force Awakens? Remember how there were almost no fan theories after TLJ and most of them were questions about how the hell were they going to save themselves from the plot points TLJ stated?

I believe there is no possible way that TROS would have given us a satisfying ending, and most of the complaints on it being about how poorly they handled the trilogy is my biggest reason to think that.
This is kinda how I feel. Star Wars fans got the reputation for being whiny babies that they don't entirely deserve. They treated the movies like art and got treated like wallets. They wanted to see amazing stories and got kids' toys already in the first trilogy, and it kept getting worse. George Lucas kept editing the material because of his insane ego. They sat through three movies of shit prequels, bought and read EU material to only have it handwaved away as not canon anymore because a conglomerate literally bought Star Wars, said "okay I guess they have something better to do with this universe that other creators have been doing for so many years, let's hear them out" and got a trilogy where at the very least each succeeding movie disrespected the previous one, at least a little bit.

I'm not even in the fandom proper, and I feel kinda bad for fans, because when they pipe up to call a spade a spade (or, in cases of Rian and JJ, and JJ and Rian, call them two directors that don't entirely respect what the other did in the trilogy, two times over), they get called unreasonable haters. If Rey's parentage isn't important, why did they set up the mystery in the first movie, answer it perfectly (if not entirely congruently with the imagery of the first movie) in the second movie, and then negate the entire message that came with the answer in the third movie? It wasn't just a parentage reveal, it was a whole trilogy-defining moment in the message, and the third movie should have went with it, and it's not nitpicky to feel this way. At the very least, they didn't have to go with "oh btw Palps is alive and he has procreated", that's about as legitimate as "oh btw Luke has a son, there he is! oh and here is Toby wan Kenobi, Obi's nephew". And even before that, the second movie could have went with some stuff set up in TFA.

Awesome post. The one thing I maybe disagree with just a tad is the idea that "[Fans] treated the movies like art and got treated like wallets." The Last Jedi actually tried to be at least somewhat art-like by having themes and being really personal with the characters - particularly Luke - and a lot of fans absolutely hated that approach. I dunno... It kind of feels to me as though fans want Star Wars to seem like art, but on the few occasions that the sequels actually tried taking risks - which is a key component of art - the fans got mad. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 05, 2020, 07:34:58 AM
I got mad because of Jesus Organa and a completely unnecessary casino zoo chase.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 05, 2020, 08:17:02 AM
That whole casino plot was quite the dumpster fire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zantera on January 05, 2020, 08:42:15 AM
While I think RoS could have turned out better, and some creative choices are questionable, I do agree JJ was dealt a bad hand with TLJ and it's like how can you even salvage what you have. Like no matter what you thought about TFA (personally I really like it) it did a good job of setting up the trilogy and there were plenty of things left for future exploration that could have made for a compelling trilogy. The problem was Rian Johnson did not see it that way so he threw out what was there and went his own way. Kinda like if you're on a long road trip in a car and you take turns driving and when you wake up you realize your buddy went 50 miles off course during the night. I think Rian Johnson is a fine filmmaker, JJ is a fine filmmaker but just the poor planning and overseeing really sank this trilogy. Step 1 has to be to make sure there's a grand plan and that all directors are on board with following that plan.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on January 05, 2020, 09:03:54 AM
It amazes me that this new trilogy just boils down to two directors and writers fighting over what Star Wars should be.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: T-ski on January 05, 2020, 09:29:48 AM
finally got around to seeing Rise of Skywalker and while not episode 8 bad, it didn't have enough to save this trilogy.

its obvious there was no coherent story planned to get through these three movies and its a shame, could have been great.

oh well, maybe they can reboot it again and Disney can rob us all of our hard earned cash once more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 05, 2020, 12:58:54 PM
Rey holds the hilt and thrusts with her light saber.  Once it's pointed out, it's impossible to miss.  Who else did that?  Palpatine, in the PT.  They're the only two.  Darth Maul with the two-ended light saber used a technique based on a bo stick, which made perfect sense.  Other than that, everybody else slashes and cuts.  Rey thrusts with it, as Palpatine did.  This was in The Force Awakens, so she hadn't had any training yet; she just went with what felt natural.  Is it possible that JJ made this intentional choice back in TFA (and thus didn't just pull "Rey is a Palpatine" out of his ass in The Rise of Skywalker)?
Yeah, that argument definitely existed back then (I'm talking as if it was a long time ago and not just a couple of years). At the very least it was set up as a possibility and a lot of fans wanted her to descend from someone Sith-aligned in some way, that was the other most popular idea after "oh my god just let Rey and Finn descend from just some normal ass people, not Skywalkers or Kenobis". But the way Rian based a lot of the art of his movie about how he sees the Force was all very poetic and beautiful, and then JJ comes in at the last movie and says "actually the Force is stored in the balls"  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: YtseJam on January 05, 2020, 06:50:28 PM
finally got around to seeing Rise of Skywalker and while not episode 8 bad, it didn't have enough to save this trilogy.

its obvious there was no coherent story planned to get through these three movies and its a shame, could have been great.

oh well, maybe they can reboot it again and Disney can rob us all of our hard earned cash once more.

True story
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on January 05, 2020, 07:45:44 PM
Rey holds the hilt and thrusts with her light saber.  Once it's pointed out, it's impossible to miss.  Who else did that?  Palpatine, in the PT.  They're the only two.  Darth Maul with the two-ended light saber used a technique based on a bo stick, which made perfect sense.  Other than that, everybody else slashes and cuts.  Rey thrusts with it, as Palpatine did.  This was in The Force Awakens, so she hadn't had any training yet; she just went with what felt natural.  Is it possible that JJ made this intentional choice back in TFA (and thus didn't just pull "Rey is a Palpatine" out of his ass in The Rise of Skywalker)?
Yeah, that argument definitely existed back then (I'm talking as if it was a long time ago and not just a couple of years). At the very least it was set up as a possibility and a lot of fans wanted her to descend from someone Sith-aligned in some way, that was the other most popular idea after "oh my god just let Rey and Finn descend from just some normal ass people, not Skywalkers or Kenobis". But the way Rian based a lot of the art of his movie about how he sees the Force was all very poetic and beautiful, and then JJ comes in at the last movie and says "actually the Force is stored in the balls"  :biggrin:

Force sensitivity was always something that had the potential to be passed genetically, but I also like the idea that anyone can be force sensitive.  Having Rey turn out to be a Palpatine made the entire saga not just about the Skywalkers, but about Skywalkers vs Palpatines, which -- as has been pointed out -- somehow makes the universe smaller, not bigger.  Having Rey being a Kenobi might have been cool, just because Luke training Rey would've been a Skywalker training a Kenobi, the other side of Obi-Wan training Anakin so long ago.  But that would have been a ridiculous coincidence, Rey turning out to be a long-lost Kenobi spawn.

I probably would've been fine with Rey turning out to be a "nobody" if it was done right.  But we'll never know.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 06, 2020, 07:22:06 AM
3 episodes of Clone Wars left on our re-watch and I'm liking more and more the idea that Star Wars go the TV series route with a movie every once and awhile. The quality of Clone Wars, Rebels, and The Mandalorian is just steller from a story telling perspective.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 06, 2020, 07:27:51 AM
Finished The Mandalorian yesterday, awesome little series there.  Love all the throw backs, simple but compelling story, and at the end some draw backs to the first episode to make a nice full circle of the season.  Plus leaving us with a little taste of what next season will be about.  It's nice to see Disney get something right with this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 06, 2020, 11:11:56 AM
A friend of mine just forwarded me some recent articles that basically point to there being significant production issues and studio meddling during the making of TROS. As always, you have to take these things with a grain of salt, but a lot of signs point to these claims being credible. As an example, even the editor of the movie went on record and said that they cut a bunch of stuff they didn't intend to, and that they were rushed. If these claims are true - and that's a big "if" - then I am pretty bummed as a Star Wars fan, and feel pretty terrible for JJ.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 06, 2020, 11:12:54 AM
A friend of mine just forwarded me some recent articles that basically point to there being significant production issues and studio meddling during the making of TROS. As always, you have to take these things with a grain of salt, but a lot of signs point to these claims being credible. As an example, even the editor of the movie went on record and said that they cut a bunch of stuff they didn't intend to, and that they were rushed. If these claims are true - and that's a big "if" - then I am pretty bummed as a Star Wars fan, and feel pretty terrible for JJ.

So ROS is the new Justice League.


Awesome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 06, 2020, 03:19:22 PM
Sigh... here we go.....
*unzips keyboard*
#releasetheJJcut
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 06, 2020, 03:23:49 PM
Fan4stick was an awful movie. So people wanted to release the Trank cut. No Trank cut ever released, people eventually moved on.

Justice League was an awful movie. So people wanted to release the Snyder cut. No Snyder cut ever released, people eventually moved on (well hopefully).

Rise of Skywalker is a mediocre movie. So people will want the Abrams cut. No Abrams cut will be released. People will move on.....whenever the next tent-pole film isn't very good and people assume a new cut of the film will make it better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 06, 2020, 03:25:13 PM
What is the Godfather test?

I had some problems with the film, but most of those aren't on my list.

The film certainly isn't perfect, but NONE of them pass the Godfather test, so that's fine.

Wait, what?
The Godfather test.  "Could <insert movie> realistically have been made any better than it is?"

The only movies to which the answer to that question would be "No" are perfect movies.  The Godfather is one such example.  Hence, the Godfather test.

Not surprised you aren't familiar with it.  I made it up myself.



TLDR: none of the previous Star Wars films are perfect, so no one should be shocked that this one isn't either.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 06, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
Has George Lucas commented on this new trilogy, or TROS, at all? I was thinking about this last night and I really want to know what he agrees/disagrees with.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 06, 2020, 05:11:40 PM
Last commenty I saw was when he was talking about TLJ, and he, like Hammill, was critical of the way Luke's character was portrayed.  I haven't heard a peep from him about ROS.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 07, 2020, 05:51:50 AM
Has George Lucas commented on this new trilogy, or TROS, at all? I was thinking about this last night and I really want to know what he agrees/disagrees with.

Disney doesn't care for his thoughts or suggestions. He knows his role.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 07, 2020, 06:30:12 AM
Has George Lucas commented on this new trilogy, or TROS, at all? I was thinking about this last night and I really want to know what he agrees/disagrees with.

Disney doesn't care for his thoughts or suggestions. He knows his role.

Might have been a good approach  to have him write or at least be involved in the writing? Maybe the prequel stuff scared them?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 07, 2020, 07:15:38 AM
Has George Lucas commented on this new trilogy, or TROS, at all? I was thinking about this last night and I really want to know what he agrees/disagrees with.

Disney doesn't care for his thoughts or suggestions. He knows his role.

Might have been a good approach  to have him write or at least be involved in the writing? Maybe the prequel stuff scared them?

I remember reading an interview with JJ where he states that they met George prior to writing the script for TROS.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zantera on January 07, 2020, 10:19:32 AM
I don't think George would like the new trilogy that much. Say what you want about the prequels quality wise but he was trying to do a lot of new things while also having some neat connections to the original trilogy with the way certain things played out or mirroring each other. The fact it didn't work the best comes down to the writing, the directing and the acting (among other things) but you can still tell there's an attempt to add something new to the overall universe. The sequel trilogy does feel closer to 'reboot' and revisiting things we know and like so I feel like George would probably consider them too safe or predictable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Samsara on January 07, 2020, 10:24:57 AM
I think it is fair to say that most people who grew up with the original trilogy probably didn't like the fact that Luke Skywalker was reduced to a hermit. He was our knight, our champion for goodness. I totally get it, and would agree that I didn't necessarily LIKE how he was portrayed in TLJ. That said, he redeemed himself in the end. What's tough is that there is a whole backstory of post-RotJ of Luke being what I think we all imagined him being - a Jedi Master, but we'll never see that on the screen. It's like we saw Luke grow up, missed his whole adulthood, and here we are, 35 years later, with him as an old man. It sort of wasn't FAIR to fans to go from ROTJ to 35 years later, with who is the central Skywalker character of the original trilogy. So I get all the frustration. But after living with the film for a while, I have a new appreciation for what Rian Johnson was trying to achieve. I still don't love the depiction, but I understand it. Just a shame they didn't do the sequels instead of the prequels. We may have gotten a lot of the Luke-centered Jedi Master stuff I think most of us in our late-30s-50s were wanting for the character.

As for Rise of Skywalker, I really enjoyed it, and saw it twice. All this stuff about director cuts...again, I get it, but the film is the film. Remember how all of us bitched and moaned (and still do) about when George went back and altered the original trilogy so many times? This is no different. The released film is the film. Cuts were made...by the director. Now in retrospect, all the fans want to see the original cut, before the film was ACTUALLY finished. I heard that Rose had more screen time - well, it was cut, and probably for the best. The character was unpopular. A scene was done, it was cut. Sure, throw it in as a deleted scene. Throw in some of the other stuff cut as deleted scenes. But I firmly believe the cuts (which were made by Abrams) were probably for the best, as they often are.

In the music business, artists trim the fat out of songs (unless you're Dream Theater circa mid-to-late 2000s) to make them better. They record 15 songs for a 12 song record and cut the weaker tracks...even if they like them. It's about making a better, more well rounded project that is accessible to the broadest audience. Films are really no different. Just a different medium.

Anyway, just my unsolicited .02. I'm thankful the Skywalker Saga is now done. The sequels were better than the prequels, but didn't live up to the original trilogy. To be honest, I really preferred Rogue One and The Mandalorian, which are fresh stories. And unlike most, I also did like Solo. I feel like that film is good and gets a bad rap because Han and Lando are recast. Those actors did a damn good job.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: pg1067 on January 07, 2020, 12:43:51 PM
I think it is fair to say that most people who grew up with the original trilogy probably didn't like the fact that Luke Skywalker was reduced to a hermit. He was our knight, our champion for goodness. I totally get it, and would agree that I didn't necessarily LIKE how he was portrayed in TLJ. That said, he redeemed himself in the end. What's tough is that there is a whole backstory of post-RotJ of Luke being what I think we all imagined him being - a Jedi Master, but we'll never see that on the screen. It's like we saw Luke grow up, missed his whole adulthood, and here we are, 35 years later, with him as an old man. It sort of wasn't FAIR to fans to go from ROTJ to 35 years later, with who is the central Skywalker character of the original trilogy. So I get all the frustration. But after living with the film for a while, I have a new appreciation for what Rian Johnson was trying to achieve. I still don't love the depiction, but I understand it. Just a shame they didn't do the sequels instead of the prequels. We may have gotten a lot of the Luke-centered Jedi Master stuff I think most of us in our late-30s-50s were wanting for the character.

This is an interesting take and not at all inaccurate, but the attitude mentioned is one that I ultimately have a problem with (or, stated differently, I just don't get it).

I grew up with the original trilogy.  I saw Star Wars (before it was ANH) in a drive-in theater when I was almost 10, and I saw both Empire and ROTJ in the theater shortly after they were released.  I own or owned multiple VHS and DVD copies of the original trilogy, and I still have an unaltered set of VHS tapes.  I was excited when they put the original trilogy back in the theaters in the late 90s and then when Phantom Menace was released.  Clones and Sith were released when my kids were really young, and I don't remember seeing them in theaters.  My opinion of the prequels is pretty consistent with popular opinion.  I like TFA and LOVED TLJ.  I think it's behind only Empire and ANH (and some days might rank it ahead of ANH).

I neither "like" nor "dislike" how Luke was treated.  IMO, it's not my place to have an opinion about how someone else chooses to write his or her story, and Luke was not a golden calf whose post-ROTJ life had to be something epic.  But, as noted above, I LOVED TLJ.

One other thing.  My sense of post-ROTJ Luke is based on novels like Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy and Kevin Anderson's Jedi Academy trilogy.  Disney's disavowance of those books was, IMO, stupid, but it left the slate completely blank for the post-ROTJ events, and Luke's life could have gone any number of ways, including what was portrayed in TLJ.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on January 07, 2020, 03:52:37 PM
Actually, I was going to quote Samsara, the same paragraph as above, and go the other way with it.  Samsara has nailed what I think is the problem a lot of people had with Luke's story arc, even if they couldn't really put their finger on it before.  I couldn't, but now that it's been elucidated, I'm right there.  Luke was the hero of the OT.  Those of us who only know Star Wars from the movies never saw anything from/about Luke until TFA, by which time he's become a legend, which makes sense and is pretty cool, but we only get one brief, wordless scene with him.  Then he's a bitter old man for most of the next movie, then he's gone.  We never got to see any of the cool shit he did between RotJ and TFA.

Going out the way he did in TLJ was pretty badass, I'll say that.  But I can understand a lot of people feeling like Luke got the shaft in terms of story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 07, 2020, 04:55:41 PM
Imo Hammil was the best part of TLJ, not just as a character but his acting when I felt the whole cast lacks great acting skills. He was a bright light in that area. I had no issues with him being in exclusion like that. Remember obi wan also excluded himself.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: soupytwist on January 08, 2020, 02:15:55 AM
Rise of Skywalker is very much a Star Wars greatest hits package, it's pretty fun and familar, but lacks any real interesting deep cuts.  For me it is the weakest of the trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on January 08, 2020, 06:56:36 AM
Rise of Skywalker is very much a Star Wars greatest hits package, it's pretty fun and familar, but lacks any real interesting deep cuts.  For me it is the weakest of the trilogy.

Could not have said it better myself! :lol Although I still think the important emotional moments (Mainly Rey and Kylo), were done pretty well..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2020, 07:41:35 AM
Imo Hammil was the best part of TLJ, not just as a character but his acting when I felt the whole cast lacks great acting skills. He was a bright light in that area. I had no issues with him being in exclusion like that. Remember obi wan also excluded himself.

And Yoda. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Samsara on January 08, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
Imo Hammil was the best part of TLJ, not just as a character but his acting when I felt the whole cast lacks great acting skills. He was a bright light in that area. I had no issues with him being in exclusion like that. Remember obi wan also excluded himself.

Remember though, the original trilogy was the same thing. Lucas casted Hammil, who was an unknown, and obviously Carrie Fisher who had pedigree but lacked experience. And Harrison Ford wasn't the "name" he ended up becoming. He had American Graffiti under his belt, but that was it. They were all basically unknowns, just like the cast of the sequel trilogy has been. The original trilogy "veteran" was Alec Guiness, who the main cast (Hammil, Ford, Fisher) all credited as bringing a sense of professionalism to the set that made them want to be better actors. I think the same played out here. The acting of the main characters of the sequel trilogy improved over time, and will probably continue to improve in other films, due to the exposure to Ford, Fisher, and Hammil. It's very circular.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 08, 2020, 11:14:23 AM
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I felt as though the acting in the sequels was generally excellent. Clearly better than the prequels and possibly better than the originals too, IMO.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 08, 2020, 11:25:53 AM
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I felt as though the acting in the sequels was generally excellent. Clearly better than the prequels and possibly better than the originals too, IMO.
Yes and no, in my opinion.  The acting in the PT was very campy, which can come across as "bad."  But campy is a style, and Lucas was going for that campy Flash Gordon feel, so I don't knock the acting in that regard. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 08, 2020, 11:46:37 AM
Imo Hammil was the best part of TLJ, not just as a character but his acting when I felt the whole cast lacks great acting skills. He was a bright light in that area. I had no issues with him being in exclusion like that. Remember obi wan also excluded himself.

Remember though, the original trilogy was the same thing. Lucas casted Hammil, who was an unknown, and obviously Carrie Fisher who had pedigree but lacked experience. And Harrison Ford wasn't the "name" he ended up becoming. He had American Graffiti under his belt, but that was it. They were all basically unknowns, just like the cast of the sequel trilogy has been. The original trilogy "veteran" was Alec Guiness, who the main cast (Hammil, Ford, Fisher) all credited as bringing a sense of professionalism to the set that made them want to be better actors. I think the same played out here. The acting of the main characters of the sequel trilogy improved over time, and will probably continue to improve in other films, due to the exposure to Ford, Fisher, and Hammil. It's very circular.

Yea thats true and Game of Thrones went for unknowns who hit it out of the ballpark immediately.  They could have been better from the get go IMO.  I have no issue with pulling unknowns but it seemed the didn't pick the best unknowns.  But I do agree that the acting in all three trilogies wasn't the greatest as a whole, but the original trilogy was still decent other than Hammill who I felt wasn't the best especially in episode 4 although he got better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 08, 2020, 11:47:51 AM
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I felt as though the acting in the sequels was generally excellent. Clearly better than the prequels and possibly better than the originals too, IMO.

I agree. The poor acting in the prequels I blame on terrible scripts and directing (Lucas).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 09, 2020, 11:55:28 AM
I like the acting in the sequels. People say Daisy and John are weak points, but they both had extremely charming moments. That little WE'LL USE THE FORCE moment between Han and Finn always cracks me up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 09, 2020, 12:44:28 PM
I like the acting in the sequels. People say Daisy and John are weak points, but they both had extremely charming moments. That little WE'LL USE THE FORCE moment between Han and Finn always cracks me up.

Not to mention that Adam Driver basically owned each of the three movies with his performance(s).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 09, 2020, 12:52:24 PM
Oh yea, as far as acting, I'm giving it to the sequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on January 09, 2020, 02:18:00 PM
I like the acting in the sequels. People say Daisy and John are weak points, but they both had extremely charming moments. That little WE'LL USE THE FORCE moment between Han and Finn always cracks me up.

Not to mention that Adam Driver basically owned each of the three movies with his performance(s).

Which makes this relevant



(https://i.imgur.com/HyGW5Z1.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 09, 2020, 02:26:36 PM
 :lol    Pretty much. Daisey Ridley and the others did a fine job but Driver was the star of those three movies.....just as Kylo Ren/Ben Solo was the 'best' character in that trilogy.....I'd argue the entire (9) movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TL on January 10, 2020, 11:51:17 PM
I'm in a complicated place with the sequel trilogy.

The Force Awakes was a bit safe and had a few flaws, but it did a lot right, and was a welcome return to form.

I absolutely loved The Last Jedi. I thought it was excellent. It developed compelling themes, and left some interesting threads.

Then we come to Rise of Skywalker. This is the film I have the most complicated feelings about.
Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver acted their butts off, while the rest of the main cast was pretty good too. Shame they sidelined Rose, and it was a bummer we didn't get more Leia, though the latter is understandable.

I would have personally made a lot of different choices with the plot.
But at the end of the day, I'm on a kick to be less cynical, and I went into both viewings so far with people who were just genuinely excited to see where this film would go. That excitement was infectious. On the first viewing, I wanted to love it, but was ultimately a bit disappointed. Though there were parts I liked.
The second time, I knew there were parts I didn't like, but I went in knowing it. I was with different friends (the first time I saw it with my brother), who were psyched to see it. I decided to enjoy their wave of enthusiasm and not be a pill about it. This was a good choice, because while I still didn't love it the second time around, I had a genuinely enjoyable time. It was flawed, but I had fun.

Overall, I liked the sequel trilogy. I liked the first, loved the second, and found things to enjoy about the third. The cast was excellent, and once I accepted it wasn't going to be the movie I wanted it to be, I was able to have fun with it. Ian McDiarmaid is always fun to watch. I would have gone a different direction with his involvement, as well as another character's lineage, but whatever. As is, I still had fun.

All in all, the originals are still the best overall, but the sequels were worthwhile (and the prequels even have some interesting acting and thematic elements).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 14, 2020, 10:28:14 AM
I need to finish my episode summaries.  I will get to that shortly.  But a note on Palpatine's return in Rise of Skywalker...

A number of the "rants" about how supposedly "bad" ROS was are really, stupidly inconsistent on at least a few points.  One major one is how Palpatine could show up after obviously being killed in Return of the Jedi.  The rants I have seen on this point are all seem to completely miss the point.  They focus on the line from Revenge of the Sith, which Palpatine repeats in ROS to explain to Kylo why he is back:  "The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."  They also make sure to mention his line, "I have died before."  So...it is pretty obvious that he did in fact DIE in ROTJ.  That fact is openly acknowledged in ROS.  But then, for some reason I cannot fathom, they then make the leap to "How did Palpatine SURVIVE, when we saw him so conclusively get blown up in Return of the Jedi??  PLOT HOLE!"  Not-Spoiler:  HE DIDN'T SURVIVE!  It's right there in the lines that were emphasized at the outset.  He did in fact die.  And through some mystical "unnatural" application of dark side abilities, his life force was somehow brought back.  There is no inconsistency here.  Like it, don't like it, or whatever.  But there is no inconsistency.  There is just a large part left to the imagination.  Remember when movies did NOT tell you everything, kids? 

Anyhow, I didn't really come to rant about that.  But, apparently, that very fact is confirmed and explained a bit in the Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Visual Dictionary:
Quote
Palpatine's return is only vaguely alluded to in Episode 9. However, we can surmise that the huge machine the Emperor is attached to keeps him alive, and that he's using Dark Side powers to "cheat death". Now, thanks to the Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Visual Dictionary, we have more clues as to how the Sith Lord survived.

Remember those mysterious hooded followers? No, not the Knights of Ren, but the other evil Emperor followers, known as the Sith Eternal. Their apparent devotion to the Emperor brought them to Exegol, the Sith planet, where they used "technology and the occult" to bring their leader back to life.

The Visual Dictionary (via Movie Web) explains how they spent decades trying to bring back the Emperor, all while crafting the Final Order's huge fleet of Star Destroyers. These were, the book clarifies, not reused old ships, but brand-new Xyston-class Star Destroyers, manufactured by the "shipwrights, engineers, and slaves" held on Exegol. The parts for the ships were also smuggled to Exegol, hidden by the power of the Sith Eternal.

The crew of these ships are barely seen in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker, yet the book adds that they were mainly made of the children of the Sith Eternal, born and trained to serve the Final Order. These are also the soldiers under the red Sith Trooper armour.

That's about the gist of it. While there's no specific information on what liquid those test tubes were pumping into the Emperor, we have a slightly better idea of how he returned. No doubt, though, that we will find out more as LucasFilm begins to release more supplementary material about the Emperor's mysterious 30 years on Exegol.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/star-wars-rise-skywalker-book-113453052.html

I'm fully on board with movies leaving a lot of details to the imagination.  We don't really NEED to know all the details and all the backstory to answer every question.  If the prequels accomplished anything of substance, I think one of the biggest unintional accomplishments is showing us all that letting our imaginations fill in the blanks is often better than trying to craft a backstory to do that for us.  But that said, while the dialog in ROS was sufficient to establish what was going on with Palpatine being back from the dead for anyone halfway paying attention, I feel like a bit more of this detail actually being in the film would have been helpful.

But a bit more on that later...

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: pg1067 on January 14, 2020, 10:44:13 AM
Remember when movies did NOT tell you everything, kids? 

. . .

I'm fully on board with movies leaving a lot of details to the imagination.  We don't really NEED to know all the details and all the backstory to answer every question.  If the prequels accomplished anything of substance, I think one of the biggest unintional accomplishments is showing us all that letting our imaginations fill in the blanks is often better than trying to craft a backstory to do that for us.  But that said, while the dialog in ROS was sufficient to establish what was going on with Palpatine being back from the dead for anyone halfway paying attention, I feel like a bit more of this detail actually being in the film would have been helpful.

I agree with all of that (and would go so far as to say that I don't really like that stuff that you quoted, which I think raises a bunch of questions on its own), and I think this contrasts well with the return of Darth Maul in Solo.  That was such a WTF moment for me and many others who hadn't seen the "canon" cartoon series, and there was ZERO explanation in the movie itself.  In TROS, it was explained enough.  It also didn't hurt that they included some "I'm back" audio in the trailers and mentioned Palpatine's return in the opening crawl.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 14, 2020, 01:03:19 PM
I'm sure the Palpatine story between the return of the jedi to rise of skywalker will be milked for a future spinoff movie or tv series in more detail for everyone to complain about  :biggrin:

In seriousness, a spinoff on the dark side of the force with a "joker" type of spin could be really good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 14, 2020, 01:06:23 PM
Yeah I guess people who are salty that Palpatine didn't die are just silly and expecting too much even though 40 years ago the camera showed him dropping down a tall shaft and then getting vaporized followed by the entire death star being blown to smithereens

But hey, bring him back anyway and just hand wave his resurgence away with plot armor, because, well, gotta make another film and milk that Palpatine cow

Honestly though, the lack of any setup whatsoever in the first 2 films bothers me waaay more than that
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 14, 2020, 01:47:12 PM
I can't begrudge anyone being bothered by the "no setup" and "milking it" angles.  That didn't bother me.  But I get it.  But what makes me shake my head about the "Palpatine didn't die!" crowd is that they just aren't paying attention and don't have their "facts" straight.  He did die.  Totally dead.  And that is confirmed in ROS.  If people are going to be salty about something, they at least need to have their facts right about the thing they are salty about.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 14, 2020, 01:54:03 PM
I dislike the assertion that the explanation in TROS was sufficient for anybody "halfway paying attention." I find that insulting because I paid a great deal of attention and was annoyed with it, and a lack of any setup at all is important for making his return to life believable. Not this, "don't question it, he's said he's conquered death before, and he's just back now okay so deal with it" refusal to accept the validity of the questions behind his return...

Sigh. Whatever, Star Wars sucks
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 14, 2020, 02:34:18 PM
I dislike the assertion that the explanation in TROS was sufficient for anybody "halfway paying attention." I find that insulting because I paid a great deal of attention and was annoyed with it, and a lack of any setup at all is important for making his return to life believable. Not this, "don't question it, he's said he's conquered death before, and he's just back now okay so deal with it" refusal to accept the validity of the questions behind his return...

Sigh. Whatever, Star Wars sucks

Thanks for your opinion.  ::) If you think it sucks so much then why post in the thread?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on January 14, 2020, 02:35:40 PM
One thing that's always bothered me about SW in general is that pretty much anything can be explained away with some Force-magic hocus pocus nonsense. I mean, sure, Palpatine's return is consistent with the lore of the universe, but it's still executed rather poorly and I don't feel it to be all too compelling in the first place. Maybe if it had been alluded to or actually explored in TFA and/or TLJ I may have been more on board with it. The fact it wasn't is just another symptom of an excessively fragmented and narratively inconsistent trilogy of films.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 14, 2020, 02:37:34 PM
Ep. IX - The Rise of Skywalker

I loved this film.  The pacing was breakneck, the quest at times didn't feel logical, and the entire thing supposedly playing out over 16 hours caused me some consternation.  But as a whole, this was such a well-done, satisfying conclusion to the Skywalker Saga.  The world-building was, by and large, fantastic.  I loved the new places that were shown, and how they continued to build color and texture to the SW galaxy. 

I loved how things built well from The Last Jedi and how the continuity was so cleverly established, even when on the surface, things seemed to subvert The Last Jedi.  For example, the theme of learning from failures was HUGE in The Last Jedi.  And they used Luke and Rey to hammer that home in ROS.  The scene with Luke catching the lightsaber and talking about giving a Jedi weapon the proper respect as Rey attempted to throw it into the fire was brilliant in that regard. 

Likewise, the themes about the force not belonging to the Jedi, and how one's background/lineage did not give anyone a right to co-opt the force was given a nice twist with Rey being a Palpatine, but ultimately being the supreme source of the light side of the force in this film. 

There were some minor things that bothered me a bit and took me out of the moment.  Since I only saw it once, maybe I just didn't get how they better fit.  But they seemed to be issues from my first viewing anyway, and took me a bit out of the moment of the film when I couldn't quite reconcile them.  For example:
-There seemed to be continuity errors with the broken lightsaber and Kylo's helmet.  The lightsaber could have been repaired, so that is less an issue, I suppose.  A quick throwaway line to that effect would have made this a non-issue.  But Kylo smashing his helmet to bits and leaving it in the elevator, and then the ship being blown up after that, made the odds of him somehow having it in ROS miniscule.  And him having that same helmet wasn't even necessary in ROS, so I'm not sure why it needed to come back.  If JJ wanted him to be helmeted, it would have made more sense to make a new one, or have Palpatine conjure it, or something.
-Silly serendipity has always been part of SW.  That has been true since film #1 (or...er...IV).  But Lando's appearance was still really pushing the envelope, IMO.  Yeah, he had to be worked in.  And they hadn't come up with anything better.  Overall, it's fine.  But still.
-The Final Order fleet also had a handful of ??? issues surrounding it, such as how it broke through the ground, which was visually stunning, but left many of us scratching our heads, and how there was little explanation for the whole navigation tower and lack of shields while in atmosphere thing.  Those both could have worked, but felt underbaked as presented simply because they seemed to present some big continuity issues that called for explanation, but ultimately weren't explained enough for a big enough chunk of the audience to not go, "Hey, wait just a minute..."
I could go on.  But these are ultimately just little things, really.  Again, overall, I think this was a fantastic film.  After only one viewing, I hesitate to rank it.  But as of right now, I feel like I would probably put it at #4 behind (in this order) Rogue One, Empire, and The Force Awakens.

Three things that worked:
1.  Building on TLJ themes (see above)
2.  The death star wreckage.  Yeah, the explosion in ROTJ made it look like it was vaporized.  But in reality, that much metal wouldn't simply vaporize.  If you want to call this a "continuity error," it is one I am willing to accept.  But, man, the scenes around that wreckage were visually and emotionally stunning.
3.  "I know."  Perfect.  Well...almost perfect.  It wasn't clear how much was Leia, how much was the force, and how much was in Kylo's mind.  But then again, it doesn't really matter.
4.  (bonus!!!)  Rey training.  I am so much more willing to accept Rey's ramping up in power when, unlike Luke between episodes V and VI, we actually got to see her doing bona fide hard Jedi training and analyzing ancient Jedi texts.

Three things that didn't:
1.  16 hours.  Come on!  Just extend the friggin' timeline!  This drove me bananas!  And, coupled with it, instantaneous travel everywhere.  :rage:  The only reason I don't ding the movie harder for this is just the simple fact that pretty much ALL the SW movies do the same thing, to one degree or another, so I can't be too hard on this one in comparison. 
2.  The "microwave problem," as I heard it described.  This is kind of related to point #1.  It is the compressed timeline, coupled with the fact that there is SO MUCH crammed into this movie, that it made emotional payoffs during parts of the movie feel unearned.  There were times where there was a supposed payoff, and rather than it feeling slow-baked and satisfying, it felt more like a dish cooked in the microwave.  It still got you there, but was just a bit less satisfying and felt underbaked.
3.  Eh...I can't really think of anything, other than maybe lumping my "minor gripes" above in here.  EDIT:  Okay, here's one:  Lightspeed skipping.  Remove this from the film, and we don't lose anything, but gain not being taken out of the moment going, "hey, wait...I thought...this shouldn't work, should it?"

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Just a reminder before I get into this that this section in my little summaries isn't meant to decry "the movie we should have gotten."  As I have said before, I think that is an incredibly silly, presumptuous, and counterproductive exercise.  To me, either accept or reject the movie we actually got.  This is just meant to be a fun little imaginative bit where we pretend we could rewind the clock and be part of the creative team to suggest things that, in retrospect, could have maybe worked better. 

To me, there are two areas of tweaking.  The first is the timeline issue, as mentioned above in issue #1.  Just extend the timeline and show that things are happening over a longer timeframe rather than instantaneously.  The second is a bit more complicated and macro.  It has to do with both pacing and continuity with TLJ.  One way to look at these two films, to me is:  TLJ was too little plot crammed into too much movie, whereas ROS was too much plot crammed into too much movie.  I am going to go back and do a "reboot" of my "minor tweaks" section for TLJ and propose a global "minor tweaks" for both of these films that addresses both of my issues above.  Coming soon to a post near you...

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 14, 2020, 02:41:15 PM
I dislike the assertion that the explanation in TROS was sufficient for anybody "halfway paying attention." I find that insulting because I paid a great deal of attention and was annoyed with it, and a lack of any setup at all is important for making his return to life believable. Not this, "don't question it, he's said he's conquered death before, and he's just back now okay so deal with it" refusal to accept the validity of the questions behind his return...

Again, you misunderstand.  Be annoyed with it.  Question it.  Hate it.  That's all valid.  But be correct in your facts.  What I am saying is that many of those criticizing it are basing their criticism on a misunderstanding of the facts that were presented in the movie.  Those facts were indeed laid out "for anyone halfway paying attention."  If you've got the facts straight and it still bothered you, I'm not criticizing that one bit. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: pg1067 on January 14, 2020, 03:01:29 PM
1.  16 hours.  Come on!  Just extend the friggin' timeline!

Well...yeah, but isn't there a time zone difference where you gain back a day or something?


-The Final Order fleet also had a handful of ??? issues surrounding it, such as how it broke through the ground, which was visually stunning, but left many of us scratching our heads

I thought the rose out of an ocean.  (this one is a serious comment)  Of course, that just begs the question of why, on such a remote planet, you have a need to hide things.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 14, 2020, 03:05:46 PM
Of course, that just begs the question of why, on such a remote planet, you have a need to hide things.

Because your assassins that you send out on missions have knives inscribed with the directions on how to find the thing to help people find your secret base.  Duh!

As far as them coming up out of the ground or ocean, it is hard to tell, because it was a dark scene and there was that strobe effect, and it is really brief.  But just watching that clip from the trailer, it really looks like it is the ground.  If you are right and it is water, that actually makes more sense.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 14, 2020, 03:32:22 PM
One thing that's always bothered me about SW in general is that pretty much anything can be explained away with some Force-magic hocus pocus nonsense. I mean, sure, Palpatine's return is consistent with the lore of the universe, but it's still executed rather poorly and I don't feel it to be all too compelling in the first place. Maybe if it had been alluded to or actually explored in TFA and/or TLJ I may have been more on board with it. The fact it wasn't is just another symptom of an excessively fragmented and narratively inconsistent trilogy of films.

Yeah, as other said before: they should have simply mapped out the entire trilogy from the get-go, or at the very least mark down the most important plot points and character arcs leaving room for the secondary ones to evolve. It would have been awesome to look back to all the hints in the previous two movies and seeing Palpatine's invisible shadow all over it, but bringing him back all of a sudden is the equivalent of a reunion with a key member of a band because the previous tour wasn't received well enough.

At least his scenes were cool, and his presence wasn't dragged but they actually opened the damn movie with it, that caught me pleasantly off guard!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 14, 2020, 05:00:15 PM
I think Ian McDiarmid is the one universally praised aspect of the movie. He stole every scene he was in :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 14, 2020, 05:05:38 PM
Of course, that just begs the question of why, on such a remote planet, you have a need to hide things.

Because your assassins that you send out on missions have knives inscribed with the directions on how to find the thing to help people find your secret base.  Duh!

As far as them coming up out of the ground or ocean, it is hard to tell, because it was a dark scene and there was that strobe effect, and it is really brief.  But just watching that clip from the trailer, it really looks like it is the ground.  If you are right and it is water, that actually makes more sense.

I Never thought or got the impression it was ground.....always looked like water to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on January 14, 2020, 05:08:55 PM
I always thought it looked like ice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 14, 2020, 05:11:49 PM
I thought it was ground. I recall the ships breaking the surface and seeing many jagged edges that looked way too rigid and sharp to be waves, but I could be wrong. Could also be ice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 14, 2020, 05:14:13 PM
OK, so...
Ep. IX - The Rise of Skywalker

...

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Just a reminder before I get into this that this section in my little summaries isn't meant to decry "the movie we should have gotten."  As I have said before, I think that is an incredibly silly, presumptuous, and counterproductive exercise.  To me, either accept or reject the movie we actually got.  This is just meant to be a fun little imaginative bit where we pretend we could rewind the clock and be part of the creative team to suggest things that, in retrospect, could have maybe worked better. 

To me, there are two areas of tweaking.  The first is the timeline issue, as mentioned above in issue #1.  Just extend the timeline and show that things are happening over a longer timeframe rather than instantaneously.  The second is a bit more complicated and macro.  It has to do with both pacing and continuity with TLJ.  One way to look at these two films, to me is:  TLJ was too little plot crammed into too much movie, whereas ROS was too much plot crammed into too much movie.  I am going to go back and do a "reboot" of my "minor tweaks" section for TLJ and propose a global "minor tweaks" for both of these films that addresses both of my issues above.  Coming soon to a post near you...

So if I'm King of Star Wars for a day, here's what I do globally with both films to make a story that feels more balanced to me:

The Last Jedi

Act I:  This is basically the actual Act I and Act II of the film combined into one act.  Act I is the chase and Rey training with Luke.  But instead of being 2/3 of the movie, it is 1/3 now and the entire casino planet arc is removed.  So it would basically look like this:
-Opening battle, bombing fleet is destroyed, good guys escape [this is basically the same]
-Slight changes in tracking device plot:  Hux briefly explains that he had his guys come up with an experimental device that can track through light speed.  It works, but is unstable, and they haven't had time to replicate it.  ...SO IT IS ONLY ON ONE SHIP. 
-The good guys have gone to very near a nebula or some other space phenomenon that makes it too dangerous to have ships warp in in front of the good guy fleet, so the First Order are stuck doing a slow chase and waiting until they run out of fuel.  Snoke's ship (not the entire bad guy fleet) appears and starts the slow chase. 
-Show a montage that demonstrates the chase is taking place over a slightly longer period of time while Rey is training.  AFTER a little bit, the attack ensues where Leia is injured, etc.  Rey senses that her friends are in trouble, and vows to cut her training short and go help them.
-Holdo holds out, resulting in eventual stealth mutiny while Finn and Rose sneak aboard (no need to go to the casino to find the key master).
-From here, the rest of the act plays out about the same, where Rey goes aboard Snoke's ship, Snoke dies, etc.  This all culminates with the Holdo Manuever and the good guys escaping.  ...except that the First Order does NOT know where they went, and they get away and hunker down on Crait.

Act II:  Fairly short.  I guess it's not correct to call it an "act" in the film.  But it is an unrelated middle section, perhaps the length of the entire casino planet arc.  This is all about the First Order regrouping, Kylo taking control, and him finding Exegol.
-The First Order regroups and begins searching (1) for the good guys, and (2) for the source of these voices/the disturbance in the force that Kylo is feeling.  This is basically slightly expanding and slightly changing the montage at the beginning of ROS to give it a bit more space to breathe and to actually plant the seed of Palpatine returning.  Kylo feels that something bigger is pulling at him.  He thought it was Snoke.  But now that Snoke has been eliminated, it is more focused, and it is stronger.  It calls him to find Exegol.
-During all this, we see a bit more of the wedge growing between Kylo and Hux to where Hux resents him more and more.
-This act culminates with Kylo getting the wayfinder and going to Exegol, and Palpatine being revealed.  No more exposition here about how Palpatine is back from the dead, because if he is revealed here, but the details are not, the suspense serves the plot and is good.

Act III:  Crait.  This plays out pretty much exactly as in the film, except without Rose making her stupid non-sacrifice that made things worse.

Epilogue:  Leia tells them she has faith that although nobody answered the call, people will come to their aid.  They just have to try harder.  They are going to send people out on missions to recruit every last fighter and pilot they can find.  And she knows some old friends who can maybe help...  (setting up Lando, and making the spontaneous appearance of the largest fleet we have ever seen at the end of ROS believable)

Oh, and sprinkled in here somewhere, the Knights of Ren can show up and do...something.  Anything. 

And I'm not touching Phasma.  There is probably a bit that could be done with her to make her arc...um...exist.  But whatever.

Rise of Skywalker

Okay, now we don't have to deal with the whole opening montage and Kylo going to Exegol, which gives things a bit more time to breathe in this film.  We are still going to move at breakneck speed, but we can slow down just a bit and allow a bit more exposition.  And Palpatine does not seem so...dropped in our laps.  Here are my minor changes:
-Since we don't have/need the opening montage, let's have this open in a more "traditional" Star Wars way.  The opening crawl is similar, but slightly different.  We know Palpatine is back.  Maybe we can drop a bit of exposition in the opening crawl about how he did actually die and his acolytes used the dark side to eventually harness his spirit and bring him back.  We can do a bit more in some dialog later as well.  But the film proper opens with, fittingly, a Final Order star destroyer, equipped with canon, destroying a planet.  Maybe one like Naboo, so we have some emotional investment.  And the order going out that they have...I dunno...a week to offer their formal surrender, or else the same fate will befall all worlds that do not submit.  Now we have stakes that make sense, AND we have a more realistic timeline.  AND we don't need to opening montage, the spy we have never seen before, or light speed skipping.  Win-win (and win).
-Now we pick up with Rey training. 
-Give a bit more exposition on the Final Order fleet and Palpatine as needed.  Fleet comes up out of water, because that still looks every bit as amazing, but is actually realistic.  Explanation that the ships are hovering in "dock" mode, and the reason they need the antenae/guidance system is because there are so many ships in close proximity, and they are big, and there is interference from the...whatever the heck created all the interference and weird strobes...and all those factors combined made it necessary for a beacon to guide them out.  That's why they are "sitting ducks" until they can all get out. 
-Fix the desert planet stuff just a bit because the quicksand/cave bit worked, but was too wonky as written.
-Sprinkle in hints that a fleet is maybe being assembled and they maybe are reaching people.  Nothing concrete.  But something to give a sliver of hope that maybe people actually ARE coming to the final battle.

That's pretty much it.  Yanking a big chunk of ROS and putting it in TLJ makes it possible to do all these other minor fixes and tweaks and would just make the whole thing more cohesive without really having to revamp the entire story.  Those are my thoughts anyway.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on January 15, 2020, 06:34:12 AM
I like that a lot.

But that would have needed a plan for the plot of all three movies, which it's clear they didn't have. That is the single biggest disappointment of the sequel trilogy and the biggest lesson I hope Lucasfilm learned moving forward.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on January 15, 2020, 07:53:54 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7auwyjQ.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/s7rIDye.jpg)


Behind the Force: Rare and Iconic Behind the Scenes Moments on the Set of Star Wars (https://populareverything.com/behind-the-force-rare-and-iconic-behind-the-scenes-moments-captured-on-set-of-the-star-wars-saga/)


(https://i.imgur.com/xlHNF5p.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on January 15, 2020, 08:02:27 PM
That top picture is awesome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: axeman90210 on January 17, 2020, 10:28:54 AM
Did you guys see that a summary of the last draft of Colin Trevorrow's script has made its way out into the wild? Completely different than what we got from JJ for Episode 9.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/eoaxdn/robert_meyer_burnett_reviews_an_early_draft_of/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2020, 10:36:27 AM
Yeah.  Some intriguing ideas.  But hard to say how it would have come across on screen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 17, 2020, 10:39:42 AM
Would've loved to see Kylo haunted by Luke and go to Mustafar (the lava-y parts) personally.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on January 17, 2020, 11:20:14 AM
Interesting ideas for sure, but still this sounds just about as messy as what we got in TROS.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: PetFish on January 20, 2020, 12:26:11 AM
I hate how everyone can all of a sudden understand what "beep-boop-beep" droids are saying (since TFA).

Not just simple emotions or inferences based on what's going on in the moment, but full-on sentences and complex vocabulary (ie. the Eylenium System that Rey understood from a few beeps from BB-8 or when Rey says to Fin that BB-8 says that you're wearing the jacket that belonged to his master).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on January 20, 2020, 08:25:37 AM
In the original trilogy, R2-D2 says "beep-boop-beep" and Luke says "That's right, R2. We're going to the Dagobah System."  I guess the idea is that if you spend enough time around them, you learn their "language".

But it's always seemed pretty dumb to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 20, 2020, 08:28:40 AM
In the original trilogy, R2-D2 says "beep-boop-beep" and Luke says "That's right, R2. We're going to the Dagobah System."  I guess the idea is that if you spend enough time around them, you learn their "language".

But it's always seemed pretty dumb to me.

Good point. But I, based on nothing, always assumed, since they were in the x-wing, that he was seeing a translation or something. I don’t recall Luke understanding him outside of the ship. Might be wrong though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 20, 2020, 09:03:35 AM
It's like the Guardians of the Galaxy understanding every variation and inclination of "I am Groot". Makes really no sense when you think about it.

Could R2-D2 speak a variation of Morse? if you know Morse language and, say, that kind of tone means dot and that other kind of tone means a line, you eventually figure it out. It could be the same principle. But yeah, they didn't really measure the beeps / complexity of sentences ratio.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jammindude on January 20, 2020, 09:16:05 AM
It's like the Guardians of the Galaxy understanding every variation and inclination of "I am Groot". Makes really no sense when you think about it.


Important point though....I'm pretty sure it's only Rocket who can understand him.   That makes it a little better.  Sortof like when Han was the only one who could understand Chewie. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 20, 2020, 09:29:03 AM
It's like the Guardians of the Galaxy understanding every variation and inclination of "I am Groot". Makes really no sense when you think about it.


Important point though....I'm pretty sure it's only Rocket who can understand him.   That makes it a little better.  Sortof like when Han was the only one who could understand Chewie.

Yea. In the Avengers movies, however, the rest of the guardians learned Groot and Thor said he spoke Groot too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 20, 2020, 10:03:44 AM
Wasn't it Quill who said, "Whoa, watch the language!" and then the rest of the Guardians moaned when teen Groot said "I am Groot" ?  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zook on January 20, 2020, 11:20:44 AM
It's like the Guardians of the Galaxy understanding every variation and inclination of "I am Groot". Makes really no sense when you think about it.


Important point though....I'm pretty sure it's only Rocket who can understand him.   That makes it a little better.  Sortof like when Han was the only one who could understand Chewie.

Yea. In the Avengers movies, however, the rest of the guardians learned Groot and Thor said he spoke Groot too.

They taught it as an elective.

Wasn't it Quill who said, "Whoa, watch the language!" and then the rest of the Guardians moaned when teen Groot said "I am Groot" ?  :lol

Quill told him to put the game away, Groot talked back, and everyone reacted. I've seen Infinity War too many times.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: pg1067 on January 20, 2020, 05:35:51 PM
In the original trilogy, R2-D2 says "beep-boop-beep" and Luke says "That's right, R2. We're going to the Dagobah System."  I guess the idea is that if you spend enough time around them, you learn their "language".

But it's always seemed pretty dumb to me.

Good point. But I, based on nothing, always assumed, since they were in the x-wing, that he was seeing a translation or something. I don’t recall Luke understanding him outside of the ship. Might be wrong though.

There's a shot (maybe in ESB?) that shows what appears to be the computer translating what R2 says into whatever language it is that Luke speaks.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jammindude on January 20, 2020, 05:57:35 PM
Easier to see on the big screen, but I remember vividly that that is true.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 20, 2020, 06:00:47 PM
Let’s not forget the (thankfully) deleted scene in ROTS where Anakin actually speaks the beep bloops.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on January 20, 2020, 06:02:49 PM
Whoa, seriously?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on January 20, 2020, 06:10:09 PM
Whoa, seriously?

https://youtu.be/0C4EoJq3xLE
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on January 20, 2020, 08:00:17 PM
That was odd.  I get what they were going for, but I agree that it's a good thing it wasn't used.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: PetFish on January 20, 2020, 10:31:59 PM
There's a shot (maybe in ESB?) that shows what appears to be the computer translating what R2 says into whatever language it is that Luke speaks.

Yep, after they escape from Hoth, R2 asks something and you see the little screen and then Luke answers.  We can assume he's asking where they are going since he also just asked why they aren't heading towards the fleet for the rendezvous.  Plus, we can infer the basics like when 3PO tells R2 that Master Luke probably doesn't like him and R2 says "boop, boooooop?" as if saying "do you?" and 3P0 says "no, i don't like you either".

The whole "I am Groot" thing is different since it was established in the movie that Rocket, and maybe others, can understand him.  It *was* established in Star Wars that you needed a translator/protocol droid to speak to beep-boop-beep droids and other races that visited you from around the galaxy.  But then, all of a sudden, everyone can just understand it.

I'm fine with the basics of beep-boop-beep, just not specifics.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: eric42434224 on January 23, 2020, 09:52:05 AM
I saw the first Star Wars in the theater when I was 7.  I have thoroughly enjoyed the Movies (a bit less with the prequels TBH), and the last three were a lot of fun.  I enjoyed introducing the SW universe to my 10, now 13 yr old daughter, and really liked it having a strong female lead.
I totally get the frustrations with plot holes, and inconsistencies, logical flaws....i really get it.  Normally they would bother me more....except that with Star Wars, i tend to be more forgiving.  I think it is a part of the whole romance, suspending or reality, fantasy feeling that I love getting with SW.  It allows me to just sit back and enjoy it for what it is.....a very entertaining and fun sci-fi ride.
I enjoyed the movies.  I will watch the Mandalorian soon, as it has such great reviews.  I do hope that future movies get a bit better with plot and logic...and perhaps deeper character and story development....perhaps with a clean slate, that can be accomplished a bit easier.
I know you cant please everyone all the time....but I was pleased (my expectations are never huge), and had fun watching it.
JMO
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 23, 2020, 10:10:19 AM
...except that with Star Wars, i tend to be more forgiving.  I think it is a part of the whole romance, suspending or reality, fantasy feeling that I love getting with SW.  It allows me to just sit back and enjoy it for what it is.....a very entertaining and fun sci-fi ride.

Yeah, I think you hit on what they were intended to do from day 1, and what people who can enjoy them identify with.  I have seen many people who try to defend them try to point out that they are "kids' movies" or "intended for children."  There is a grain of truth to that, but I think it misses the point.  What Lucas was going for is the Saturday morning serial, ala Flash Gordon.  The kind of stories that are corny and campy, that you could never in a million years identify with based on any claim to realism, but that could just take you to another place and make you have a good time.  They aren't necessarily aimed just at "kids," per se, but at those who could watch a guy in a rubber Godzilla suit and simultaneously point and laugh, while thoroughly enjoying the mock terror and have a blast being swept away to a place of ridiculous fun.  I'm not sure what the specific correlation is these days, but for those of our generation, I think the Flash Gordon/Godzilla/Space Giants crowd fits what the films were going for--taking that to a slightly higher level and presenting it as cinema.  The original trilogy did that well.  The PT definitely had that, but I think Lucas also got mired in competing agendas during that period, and that takes an unfortunate back seat.  I think the new films, by and large, got back to that and did it well, and I think that's why a lot of folks from our generation tended to like them, whereas some of the adult fans that are a bit younger than us tend to rage at them.

I will watch the Mandalorian soon, as it has such great reviews.  I do hope that future movies get a bit better with plot and logic...and perhaps deeper character and story development....perhaps with a clean slate, that can be accomplished a bit easier.

Hard to say what direction new films will take.  I kind of feel like the standalone films, love them or hate them, might be somewhat of an indicator of where Disney/Lucasfilm might be wanting to go, tonally, and in terms of the things you mention.  I think they're going to go for slightly more gritty, realistic, character-driven movies.  And with the ending of the Skywalker saga, I think it's appropriate to make that shift now and get away from the "Saturday morning serial"-type of film. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 23, 2020, 11:12:24 AM
Final season of Clone Wars coming 2/21!!! Looks amazing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLW2jkd6E7g

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 23, 2020, 11:32:31 AM
Final season of Clone Wars coming 2/21!!! Looks amazing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLW2jkd6E7g

So pumped for this!  :metal    Been jamming through the series again...it's really a well done series. If any of you guys haven't watched it I'd highly recommend it.....that and REBELS. Both solid.

There are some clunker episodes but they're also only 20 minutes long so.....If I had to put a percentage on it I'd say 90% of the episodes are 'worth' the watch....the other 10% are just 'meh'. But all in all the Clone Wars does wonders to build upon Obi Wan and Anakin's relationship.....shows how powerful Anakin truly was......and features (IMO) one of the best SW characters around in Ahsoka.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 23, 2020, 12:55:55 PM
Final season of Clone Wars coming 2/21!!! Looks amazing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLW2jkd6E7g

So pumped for this!  :metal    Been jamming through the series again...it's really a well done series. If any of you guys haven't watched it I'd highly recommend it.....that and REBELS. Both solid.

There are some clunker episodes but they're also only 20 minutes long so.....If I had to put a percentage on it I'd say 90% of the episodes are 'worth' the watch....the other 10% are just 'meh'. But all in all the Clone Wars does wonders to build upon Obi Wan and Anakin's relationship.....shows how powerful Anakin truly was......and features (IMO) one of the best SW characters around in Ahsoka.

Agreed. Just finished my re-watch as well and about done with season 1 of Rebels. I'm pretty much sold on the idea of there being way more Star Wars shows than movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 23, 2020, 02:42:16 PM
Final season of Clone Wars coming 2/21!!! Looks amazing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLW2jkd6E7g

So pumped for this!  :metal    Been jamming through the series again...it's really a well done series. If any of you guys haven't watched it I'd highly recommend it.....that and REBELS. Both solid.

There are some clunker episodes but they're also only 20 minutes long so.....If I had to put a percentage on it I'd say 90% of the episodes are 'worth' the watch....the other 10% are just 'meh'. But all in all the Clone Wars does wonders to build upon Obi Wan and Anakin's relationship.....shows how powerful Anakin truly was......and features (IMO) one of the best SW characters around in Ahsoka.

Agreed. Just finished my re-watch as well and about done with season 1 of Rebels. I'm pretty much sold on the idea of there being way more Star Wars shows than movies.

Have you by chance watche 'Mr. Robot'? I only ask because I think Elliots sister Darlene on that show is a perfect fit for a live action Ahsoka. Strictly on the 'look' alone. I'm sure the actress could hone that character in as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on January 23, 2020, 09:56:10 PM
Hey look, more problems in Star Wars land! Apparently Kathy Kennedy was unhappy with the first 2 Obi-wan scripts and sent everyone home, reduced the series order from 6 to 4 episodes and put the whole thing on indefinite hold. Why is she finding it so hard to manage this?

Starting to wonder why she is still in charge. This is getting old.

https://www.indiewire.com/2020/01/obi-wan-series-delayed-disney-star-wars-1202205572/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 24, 2020, 05:48:19 AM
She's terrible at this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 24, 2020, 07:06:39 AM
Or is she smart? Rogue one and Solo (which i still think is good but would have been a better show) went through a lot of re-writes. From what I read there was concern over the plot being too similar to the mandalorian. I'd rather wait longer than get a shit show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 24, 2020, 07:16:19 AM
From Obi-Wan himself:

https://www.ign.com/articles/obi-wan-kenobi-series-delay-wont-change-release-date-says-ewan-mcgregor
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 24, 2020, 04:01:22 PM
The more I’ve read about the abandoned script and seen the concept art for Trevorrows Episode 9 the more I’m intrigued

We got what we got.....and I’m on record as being satisfied with the trilogy.....but his movie sounds like
It’d have been interesting as heck. We can only imagine at this point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 28, 2020, 03:58:44 PM
From Obi-Wan himself:

https://www.ign.com/articles/obi-wan-kenobi-series-delay-wont-change-release-date-says-ewan-mcgregor
I don't even care about an Obi-Wan show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: axeman90210 on January 31, 2020, 01:53:25 PM
Been burning my way through a bunch of Clone Wars lately, and man is early season 4 a giant drop off in quality for me. Did not really care at all about the three episodes set on Mon Calamari and the R2/3PO adventure episodes have been a drag too. If not for wanting to be caught up in time for season 7 I'd probably be switching off to something else for a while.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on January 31, 2020, 02:05:03 PM
Been burning my way through a bunch of Clone Wars lately, and man is early season 4 a giant drop off in quality for me. Did not really care at all about the three episodes set on Mon Calamari and the R2/3PO adventure episodes have been a drag too. If not for wanting to be caught up in time for season 7 I'd probably be switching off to something else for a while.

Stick with it! Some of the best episodes are still to come! :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: axeman90210 on January 31, 2020, 02:15:45 PM
Oh I am. Just especially a bummer because I dug a lot of the latter part of S3. But I figure Darth Maul's gotta be coming up at some point soon.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on February 01, 2020, 05:38:22 AM
Watching through the Clone Wars as well. Never watched the show when it was first on so it's all new to me. It's pretty hit or miss as to whether I really enjoy the episodes or not. Midway through season 4 at this point. I feel like seeing the clones with personalities and without their helmet definitely takes away some of the mystique of the storm troopers.
Title: The Mandalorian 2 - Official Thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 04, 2020, 08:15:09 PM
https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/4/21123262/mandalorian-season-2-october-disney-plus-star-wars

 :metal
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives this October
Post by: lordxizor on February 05, 2020, 06:14:14 AM
Nice! Looking forward to it. Not sure how I feel about potential spin-off series about some of the other characters though.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives this October
Post by: The Walrus on February 05, 2020, 09:32:14 AM
I for one can't wait for The Adventures of Baby Yoda.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives this October
Post by: jingle.boy on February 07, 2020, 04:42:17 AM
I for one can't wait for The Adventures of Baby Yoda.

That's a weird way to spell Cara Dune.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives this October
Post by: jammindude on February 07, 2020, 08:22:08 PM
I for one can't wait for The Adventures of Baby Yoda.

That's a weird way to spell Cara Dune.

Are you talking about DUNC?
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives this October
Post by: The Walrus on February 09, 2020, 01:23:46 AM
I for one can't wait for The Adventures of Baby Yoda.

That's a weird way to spell Cara Dune.

Really? She sucks.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 20, 2020, 09:24:25 PM
Tomorrow! Can’t wait.  :metal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on February 25, 2020, 03:43:23 AM
Star Wars: The High Republic | Announcement Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCat5fXRyyU)

This looks cool but honestly, I can't keep up man. Haven't seen either The Mandalorian or even the new movie.  :omg: :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 25, 2020, 05:50:57 AM
So, novels and comics?  Cool indeed, but I'm just completely tapped (actually, I'm in a deficit) on my disposable time for stuff like this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on February 25, 2020, 06:00:15 AM
Star Wars: The High Republic | Announcement Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCat5fXRyyU)

This looks cool but honestly, I can't keep up man. Haven't seen either The Mandalorian or even the new movie.  :omg: :lol

It's books and comics. There's already a billion of those, so really nothing new there.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on February 25, 2020, 06:03:35 AM
Personally not interested in anything but movies or TV shows. I stopped being able to keep up with the books decades ago.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on February 25, 2020, 03:57:24 PM
Star Wars: The High Republic | Announcement Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCat5fXRyyU)

This looks cool but honestly, I can't keep up man. Haven't seen either The Mandalorian or even the new movie.  :omg: :lol

It's books and comics. There's already a billion of those, so really nothing new there.
Oh sry, I missed that. Carry on then.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 28, 2020, 07:06:38 AM
Totally random and out of the blue realization: if Rey really was a nobody, the daughter of a couple of random What's-Their-Names, her decision at the very end of the movie would have been more powerful. She was a nobody, so she could be whoever she decided to be, with her temptation to the Dark Side remaining intact... and her finally opting to go team Skywalker. It's a nice scene indeed to have her closing the whole thing full circle, being on Tattoine and picking up the Skywalker name, but if she wasn't a Palpatine and if she was really a nobody, it would have made it even better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on February 28, 2020, 07:08:07 AM
Totally random and out of the blue realization: if Rey really was a nobody, the daughter of a couple of random What's-Their-Names, her decision at the very end of the movie would have been more powerful. She was a nobody, so she could be whoever she decided to be, with her temptation to the Dark Side remaining intact... and her finally opting to go team Skywalker. It's a nice scene indeed to have her closing the whole thing full circle, being on Tattoine and picking up the Skywalker name, but if she wasn't a Palpatine and if she was really a nobody, it would have made it even better.
I had this same thought after seeing ROS the second time. I think the whole Palpatine thing was completely unnecessary. Not the end of the world that they did it, but just didn't really bring a whole lot to the table. I still enjoyed the movie quite a bit though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 28, 2020, 10:48:17 AM
I simply viewed it as a way to bring McDiarmid (and his "gravitas") into the concluding film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 28, 2020, 11:08:52 AM
I simply viewed it as a way to bring McDiarmid (and his "gravitas") into the concluding film.
Same.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on February 28, 2020, 11:12:59 AM
I simply viewed it as a way to bring McDiarmid (and his "gravitas") into the concluding film.

Which, in my opinion, is bad writing. You don't create a plot to justify a conclusion. You reach a conclusion from the plot you've created.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 28, 2020, 12:15:01 PM
I simply viewed it as a way to bring McDiarmid (and his "gravitas") into the concluding film.

Which, in my opinion, is bad writing. You don't create a plot to justify a conclusion. You reach a conclusion from the plot you've created.

I can't disagree with you here.  And my statement wasn't to suggest this was a good reason to make Rey's lineage to be Palpatine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on February 28, 2020, 04:00:27 PM
I'm sure this has been posted somewhere in this thread already, but I just saw it today.

How It Should Have Ended: Episode IX (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OnieKUgv3I).

Nowadays, HISHE videos aren't just about the ending, but rip on pretty much anything in the movie.  One really simple thing that jumped out at me was how, if they'd dropped the bomb (or even just hinted) that Palpatine was somehow still alive at the end of Episode VIII, it would have improved a lot of things.  We would've been wondering about it the whole time, and it wouldn't have come out of nowhere.  The Rey connection would be a lot easier to swallow because we're already thinking about Palpatine.  And of course it would've been a cool cliff-hanger ending; instead we got Broom Boy.

But that would've required continuity, unified vision, Johnson and Abrams making out, and other things we know didn't happen.  But it would've been cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on February 28, 2020, 04:06:11 PM
I'm sure this has been posted somewhere in this thread already, but I just saw it today.

How It Should Have Ended: Episode IX (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OnieKUgv3I).

Nowadays, HISHE videos aren't just about the ending, but rip on pretty much anything in the movie.  One really simple thing that jumped out at me was how, if they'd dropped the bomb (or even just hinted) that Palpatine was somehow still alive at the end of Episode VIII, it would have improved a lot of things.  We would've been wondering about it the whole time, and it wouldn't have come out of nowhere.  The Rey connection would be a lot easier to swallow because we're already thinking about Palpatine.  And of course it would've been a cool cliff-hanger ending; instead we got Broom Boy.

But that would've required continuity, unified vision, Johnson and Abrams making out, and other things we know didn't happen.  But it would've been cool.
Completely agree. The biggest flaw of the sequel trilogy is the lack of unified vision.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Volante99 on February 29, 2020, 10:50:08 PM
I'm sure this has been posted somewhere in this thread already, but I just saw it today.

How It Should Have Ended: Episode IX (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OnieKUgv3I).

Nowadays, HISHE videos aren't just about the ending, but rip on pretty much anything in the movie.  One really simple thing that jumped out at me was how, if they'd dropped the bomb (or even just hinted) that Palpatine was somehow still alive at the end of Episode VIII, it would have improved a lot of things.  We would've been wondering about it the whole time, and it wouldn't have come out of nowhere.  The Rey connection would be a lot easier to swallow because we're already thinking about Palpatine.  And of course it would've been a cool cliff-hanger ending; instead we got Broom Boy.

But that would've required continuity, unified vision, Johnson and Abrams making out, and other things we know didn't happen.  But it would've been cool.
Completely agree. The biggest flaw of the sequel trilogy is the lack of unified vision.

To me the Star Wars Sequel trilogy is one of the biggest Hollywood mysteries ever. Speaking from first hand knowledge, Disney plans, analyzes and scrutinizes everything from how many strands of hair on Elsa’s head to the Pantone color of Goofy’s socks and yet they didn’t put together a unified plan/vision and decided to “wing it” for the biggest franchise in move history. It’s baffling to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MirrorMask on March 01, 2020, 03:35:57 AM
The weird irony however is that the original trilogy was winged, while the prequel trilogy was planned  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on March 01, 2020, 04:54:10 AM
The weird irony however is that the original trilogy was winged, while the prequel trilogy was planned  ;D
Haha. Good point.

I'm halfway through season 5 of the Clone Wars series and I have a few annoying observations about this series and the rest of Star Wars in general.

1) The Jedi get themselves captured an awful lot and the villians are always too stupid to kill them right away. This feels like lazy writing to me.
2) The Jedi seem to forget to use the Force an awful lot to avoid capture or to escape when captured.
3) The Droid army (and the Clone army for that matter) at times seems completely inept and unable to kill the other side even given overwhelming numbers and other times seem to have no problem winning a battle. Wildly inconsistent abilities is annoying.
4) When using multiple lightsabers both the Jedi and the Sith or Grevious, seem to have no idea how to use them effectively. Grevious's four lightsabers are regularly stopped by a Jedi using a single lightsaber. Engage the opponent's lightsaber with one of yours and then use the second to cut their legs out from underneath them. Shouldn't be very difficult.
5) The planets in the Star Wars Galaxy must either be very small or must all be inhabited by only a single city or colony. Taking a full planet like Earth would require hundreds of millions of troops and all we ever see are a couple ships with a few hundred troops taking whole star systems. Along the same lines, the Republic would require billions of clones and many thousands of ships to fight in hundreds of planets, yet in Attack of the Clones they only talk about hundreds of thousands and a.million clones being prepared.

Just a lot of nitpicky stuff. Overall I am enjoying the Clone Wars series and live Star Wars overall.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on March 01, 2020, 04:56:12 AM
The weird irony however is that the original trilogy was winged, while the prequel trilogy was planned  ;D
Haha. Good point.

I'm halfway through season 5 of the Clone Wars series and I have a few annoying observations about this series and the rest of Star Wars in general.

1) The Jedi get themselves captured an awful lot and the villians are always too stupid to kill them right away. This feels like lazy writing to me.
2) The Jedi seem to forget to use the Force an awful lot to avoid capture or to escape when captured.
3) The Droid army (and the Clone army for that matter) at times seems completely inept and unable to kill the other side even given overwhelming numbers and other times seem to have no problem winning a battle. Wildly inconsistent abilities is annoying.
4) When using multiple lightsabers both the Jedi and the Sith or Grevious, seem to have no idea how to use them effectively. Grevious's four lightsabers are regularly stopped by a Jedi using a single lightsaber. Engage the opponent's lightsaber with one of yours and then use the second to cut their legs out from underneath them. Shouldn't be very difficult.
5) The planets in the Star Wars Galaxy must either be very small or must all be inhabited by only a single city or colony. Taking a full planet like Earth would require hundreds of millions of troops and all we ever see are a couple ships with a few hundred troops taking whole star systems. Along the same lines, the Republic would require billions of clones and many thousands of ships to fight in hundreds of planets, yet in Attack of the Clones they only talk about a million clones being prepared.

Just a lot of nitpicky stuff. Overall I am enjoying the Clone Wars series and love Star Wars overall.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 03, 2020, 05:08:13 PM
Bosk1's officially unofficial coolness SW film ranking:

1.  Rogue One:  This film was FANTASTIC.  If I were king of Star Wars, the only things I would change would be to remove any reference whatsoever to Bor Gullet (that was stupid AND it creeped me out), make Krennic kill Galen (which makes Jyn's turn toward stopping the Empire more believable and has stakes), don't have Leia at Scarif.  Otherwise, this movie was almost perfect. 
2.  The Force Awakens:  I should probably have Empire at #2, but TFA was so good.  The visual of Rey against giant, wrecked star destroyers alone made everyone in the audience forget the prequels and feel like everything Star Wars was gonna be great.
3.  Empire:  Yeah.  "I am your father."  Legendary.  My only quibble is, if Lucas was going to go back and CGI-retcon all the OT to death once the technology allowed, I am completely onboard with him barely touching this one, but he could have at least made the giant worm look less like a penis.
4.  The Rise of Skywalker:  See my review.  Flaws aside, I loved it.
5.  A New Hope:  I give this one a slight nod over ROTJ.  It has pacing problems and feels VERY slow at times.  And it is harder to watch.  But it does SO much right. 
6.  Return of the Jedi:  Luke's plan was stupid.  And parts of the battle of Endor...  (Ewoks, I'm looking at you)  But still.  This was great.
7.  Solo:  I like this movie.  A lot.  I'm kind of surprised it is #7.  But that is more a reflection on the strength of 1-6 than this film.  Yeah, it has its issues.  But it is fun.  And it feels more Star Warsy than some of the films.
8.  The Last Jedi:  My review highlights the problems I had.  I like this movie.  But it had issues that bothered me.
9.  Revenge of the Sith:  I kinda felt guilty having all the prequels in the bottom 3 as I was doing this, and almost felt obligated to have this one higher just because.  But I just can't.  It is a lot better than the prior two.  But it has some glaring issues, namely that Anakin's turn, which is supposed to be the setpiece and premise of the entire PT somehow feels completely unearned.
10.  The Phantom Menace:  Lucas made some very strange decisions in writing, directing, etc.  But Darth Maul.  And there is some other good stuff. 
11.  Attack of the Clones:  Like TPM, it has some cool moments and cool ideas.  But it just doesn't work.  And although it tries to plant the seeds of Anakin's turn, it just meanders too much and doesn't go anywhere.  And it doesn't have Darth Maul to make you go, "Well, at least that final lightsaber fight was epic."  Why exactly did he have to die in ep. I and leave us without a compelling B villain to pair with Palpatine?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on March 03, 2020, 06:41:27 PM
No Deadpool on your list?



Also, it's apparently confirmed that Palpatine in TROS is a clone.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 04, 2020, 08:02:59 AM
Also, it's apparently confirmed that Palpatine in TROS is a clone.

Yeah, I saw that.  My reaction when reading it was:
1.  ???  We already pretty much knew that.  Or at least, most of us did.  Why is this article making it sound like this is some groundbreaking revelation?
2.  For the handful that didn't, I guess maybe the film could have been a little more clear to avoid some of the uninformed raging?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on March 04, 2020, 08:06:04 AM
Also, it's apparently confirmed that Palpatine in TROS is a clone.

Yeah, I saw that.  My reaction when reading it was:
1.  ???  We already pretty much knew that.  Or at least, most of us did.  Why is this article making it sound like this is some groundbreaking revelation?
2.  For the handful that didn't, I guess maybe the film could have been a little more clear to avoid some of the uninformed raging?

I'm gonna be honest, I didn't know that. A lot of what I read considered it a possibility but also that he is the original Palpatine and that the one from the other movies was a clone, or that he survived the destruction of the death star or whatever. I mean, it's all dumb to me, but I guess it least clears up some stuff? I dunno.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 04, 2020, 08:09:44 AM
I thought it was the real Palpatine but there was no confirmation either way, only hints...  then again I'm stupid, so
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 04, 2020, 10:10:16 AM
I'm sure this has been posted somewhere in this thread already, but I just saw it today.

How It Should Have Ended: Episode IX (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OnieKUgv3I).

Nowadays, HISHE videos aren't just about the ending, but rip on pretty much anything in the movie.  One really simple thing that jumped out at me was how, if they'd dropped the bomb (or even just hinted) that Palpatine was somehow still alive at the end of Episode VIII, it would have improved a lot of things.  We would've been wondering about it the whole time, and it wouldn't have come out of nowhere.  The Rey connection would be a lot easier to swallow because we're already thinking about Palpatine.  And of course it would've been a cool cliff-hanger ending; instead we got Broom Boy.

But that would've required continuity, unified vision, Johnson and Abrams making out, and other things we know didn't happen.  But it would've been cool.
Completely agree. The biggest flaw of the sequel trilogy is the lack of unified vision.
I often wonder how our opinions of the sequels are impacted by knowing there wasn't a unified vision behind the scenes. In other words, if we didn't know about all the behind the scenes drama, are there any plot points - Rey's parentage for instance - that would resonate differently? I guess we'll never really know, but I feel like it probably matters to some extent.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on March 04, 2020, 10:40:03 AM
I think it affects our opinions, whether we want them to or not.  If I watch a movie (or a trilogy) I might think of a few things I would've done differently to make it better.  Doesn't matter whether I enjoyed it overall, hated it, or anything in between.  I tend to think of things that didn't work in my opinion, and how I would've fixed them.

If I later find out that the issues I had were actually brought up behind the scenes, or were deliberate choices, or were the result of poor guidance from the suits, or any number of things, I feel vindicated, sure, but mostly I somehow feel even worse about the movie (or trilogy) because it has these issues that I now know could have been avoided.

I don't know if that's how it works for most people, but that's how it works with me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 04, 2020, 11:02:53 AM
Yeah, I don't let it bother me too much, but it definitely does factor in.  Bottom line is, if I enjoy a film, I'm not going to STOP enjoying it because of something like that.  But I do enjoy it less.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ronnibran on March 04, 2020, 06:55:11 PM
Going into the new Star Wars I had The Force Awakens as my second favorite SW movie (only behind A New Hope).  Having seen the new one a couple of times and having plenty of time to digest....  Even The Force Awakens has slipped some spots.  (due to how much I was disappointed with TROS).

The best part about TFA was all of the interesting stories it was developing.  That unfortunately never went anywhere...  Can't think of a good story or legit bad guy?  No problem, we'll just bring someone back from the dead.  <couple of months later>  Oh there was backlash as it didn't make sense.  No problem, he was actually a clone.  Ok...

I truly complain about this in fun (me and some others at work pick this apart regularly).  I realize this is somewhat of a golden age of Star Wars and I'm happy with getting anything new.  I just don't think the sequel trilogy ended up as good as it could have.  I used to blame Rian Johnson, now I don't know who to blame lol. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on March 04, 2020, 08:01:11 PM
So apparently Rey’s dad was a clone of Palpatine that was deemed unworthy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 04, 2020, 10:39:04 PM
...  <couple of months later>  Oh there was backlash as it didn't make sense.  No problem, he was actually a clone.  Ok...

See, I don't get this.  It was right there in the movie.  I mean, they didn't say "clone."  But he said he died, and they showed the cloning tanks, so we were supposed to connect those dots.  Not everything needs to be spelled right out.

I realize this is somewhat of a golden age of Star Wars and I'm happy with getting anything new. 

That's interesting.  I hadn't really thought about it in those terms, but I guess you're right.

So apparently Rey’s dad was a clone of Palpatine that was deemed unworthy.

Oh, wow.  That's interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on March 05, 2020, 02:35:00 AM
Ok.

So the chain of events goes something like this:

- Palpy dies on the second Death Star
- Sith Eternal somehow put his spirit in a bottle, and revive him in a new clone body.
- Palpy puts in motion the events that lead into the formation of the First Order decades later.
- Palpy and his pals on Exegol conjure up Snoke, and plant him into the leadership of The First Order so that they do exactly what they want.
- The First Order are unknowing stooges for the Sith Eternal, and they get rid of the New Republic for them, and clear the playing field for Palpatine to take over again

So that is the tip of the iceberg. That is so convoluted, but kinda sorta makes sense. But I agree how the sequel trilogy is a hot mess due to the lack of planning. And Rey's dad is a failed clone of Palpatine?! :huh:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 05, 2020, 09:54:11 AM
...  <couple of months later>  Oh there was backlash as it didn't make sense.  No problem, he was actually a clone.  Ok...

See, I don't get this.  It was right there in the movie.  I mean, they didn't say "clone."  But he said he died, and they showed the cloning tanks, so we were supposed to connect those dots.  Not everything needs to be spelled right out.

Bosk I really get annoyed when you talk as if people who have these complaints weren't paying attention or something. Not everything needs to be spelled out but if you're going to gloss over critical information about one of the franchise's biggest characters only to reveal it in detail months later then you did a poor job of bringing that information to light in the film. In the movie, Palpatine says "I have died many times." He doesn't say, "I died on the Death Star, and this is a clone of myself," and makes it clear and explicit. So confusion is understandable. The cloning tanks they showed had Snokes in them. The way I connected the dots was that he was cloning Snokes, and Snokes were either botched clones of his or something else entirely. But again, I am stupid and don't have a very big brain so my feeble mind could not connect these apparently very obvious dots. I don't pay attention much good. Rant over
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on March 05, 2020, 09:55:24 AM
Yea, the cloning tanks were definitely filled with Snokes and he very quickly points out that he made Snoke. So associating the clones just with Snoke seems reasonable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 05, 2020, 09:58:13 AM
No, Adami, it was right there in the movie, why weren't you paying attention?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on March 05, 2020, 09:59:18 AM
No, Adami, it was right there in the movie, why weren't you paying attention?

Sorry  :'( I admit I was a little distracted by Kylo being all thirsty or whatever the kids are calling it these days.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 05, 2020, 10:21:49 AM
Bosk I really get annoyed when you talk as if people who have these complaints weren't paying attention or something.

Sorry, let me rephrase and dial it back a bit (but not entirely).  I guess what I am reacting to is the implication that they simply retconned that explanation in months after the fact.  Because it wasn't.  It was there.  Granted, it was not clearly spelled out.  Maybe that is a flaw.  But maybe it was by design.  I think most (but not all) fans who know SW well and geek out over it would have reasonably come away from the film with the breadcrumbs that were there and thought something along the lines of, "So Palpatine was most likely cloned after being killed on the second Death Star.  But they left it open enough where it could have been something else, related to the Sith Eternal dark side magic.  But they sure seemed to be pointing toward cloning."  Again, maybe it was just sloppy writing.  Maybe not.  But, again, not everything needs to be spelled out, and I tend to think it was on purpose that it was left slightly vague so that, although there was enough there to draw that conclusion, there was also enough to leave it open ended and have people wondering. 

Sorry for implying that anyone who didn't come to that conclusion is somehow deficient.  That's not nice, and my fault for going that far.  Again, let me dial it back and point out that it's really the suggestion of retconning when it isn't a retcon that I was reacting to. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 05, 2020, 10:30:18 AM
Again, I agree. Not everything needs to be spelled out. But there is very big difference between thoughtfully and methodically planning out how those breadcrumbs should come together to make the revelation clear for the viewer, and just kind of throwing them in and hoping they'll make the connection and then having to re-explain the whole thing months after the film has been seen by most people, which tells me they failed in their mission to communicate that in the film, which tells me once again that this movie's planning was not handled well, which tells me... well, you know where I'm going with this  :lol  :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: T-ski on March 05, 2020, 11:09:34 AM
I asked Disney via twitter to refund my money for the debacle that was the last trilogy.

still waiting for a response.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 05, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
Yea, the cloning tanks were definitely filled with Snokes and he very quickly points out that he made Snoke. So associating the clones just with Snoke seems reasonable.

That was the connection I made too. Considering the Emperor was plugged into a bunch of tubes and stuff, I figured there was some weird explanation for him being alive, but I didn't think he was necessarily a clone. I guess the ultimate reason behind his resurrection doesn't really affect ROS one way or another, but it is definitely another tally in the "Disney was just yolo'ing it" column. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on March 05, 2020, 12:51:01 PM
Also, since the emperor used the force to literally take his consciousness out of his body and move it across the universe (which I have big problems with) then why couldn't he just do that before Rey killed him?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 05, 2020, 01:48:37 PM
Also, since the emperor used the force to literally take his consciousness out of his body and move it across the universe (which I have big problems with) then why couldn't he just do that before Rey killed him?

If I had to guess, he was probably too weak to do it this time around. But it's a very fair question.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on March 05, 2020, 01:49:55 PM
Also, since the emperor used the force to literally take his consciousness out of his body and move it across the universe (which I have big problems with) then why couldn't he just do that before Rey killed him?

If I had to guess, he was probably too weak to do it this time around. But it's a very fair question.

He was actively destroying an entire fleet of ships while taunting Rey and fighting her at the same time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 05, 2020, 02:24:22 PM
That ship lightning stuff has to be the most OP thing we've ever seen in the cinematic universe right? I couldn't help but laugh at the absurd power on display there. It was so anime
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 05, 2020, 02:57:00 PM
For sure.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Podaar on March 05, 2020, 04:31:04 PM
That ship lightning stuff has to be the most OP thing we've ever seen in the cinematic universe right? I couldn't help but laugh at the absurd power on display there. It was so anime

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LimitedBiodegradableLadybug-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: soupytwist on March 05, 2020, 04:44:22 PM
Emogi review of the trilogy....

Me walking out the cinema after The Force Awakens  ;D
Me walking out the cinema after Last Jedi  :smiley:
Me walking out the cinema after Rise of Skywalker  ???

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 05, 2020, 04:56:05 PM
That ship lightning stuff has to be the most OP thing we've ever seen in the cinematic universe right? I couldn't help but laugh at the absurd power on display there. It was so anime

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LimitedBiodegradableLadybug-size_restricted.gif)

Well, yeah, but I think the point is that in Star Wars, it came out of nowhere.  It wasn't just a "new" force power, which would be fine.  It was many, many orders of magnitude beyond anything we have ever seen, and no attempt at justifying it was given.  In Infinity War, that magnitude of power has actually been talked about and shown in discussions of the infinity stones.  That was very consistent in universe. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 05, 2020, 04:56:39 PM
I was indeed referring to Star Wars. It was so obnoxiously out of nowhere and far beyond anything we've ever seen before. The part with Kylo Ren stopping a ship with the Force was already like "whoa" levels of Force-wielding we'd never seen before but Palpatine came out with a Dragon Ball Z move in the end  :lol

But I did almost pee a little when I saw Thanos do that in IMAX.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Podaar on March 06, 2020, 07:52:55 AM
Yeah, I should have read more carefully. When Katt wrote "the most OP thing we've ever seen in the cinematic universe ", I read it as "the most OP thing we've ever seen in cinema." I thought it would be funny to show the most OP moment I could think of.

My bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 06, 2020, 08:44:50 AM
That is a fantastic GIF though.  :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 06, 2020, 09:01:32 AM
Haven’t had the chance to catch the new Clone Wars yet....still have a couple episodes left to go on the rewatch.

But, the boys and I did start the rewatch of ‘Rebels’ also. Man....I forgot how cool this series was. So well done.

What’s very evident in watching these two series is that it’s a crime that Dave Filoni wasn’t more involved or directly involved in the new trilogy. He ‘gets’ the Star Wars universe. I wish they’d give him a movie or trilogy to do on his own. I guarantee it’d be incredible.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on March 06, 2020, 10:29:08 AM
Haven’t had the chance to catch the new Clone Wars yet....still have a couple episodes left to go on the rewatch.

But, the boys and I did start the rewatch of ‘Rebels’ also. Man....I forgot how cool this series was. So well done.

What’s very evident in watching these two series is that it’s a crime that Dave Filoni wasn’t more involved or directly involved in the new trilogy. He ‘gets’ the Star Wars universe. I wish they’d give him a movie or trilogy to do on his own. I guarantee it’d be incredible.

We're about done with season 2 of Rebels and 100% agree. I'm guessing there's another show in the works.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 06, 2020, 10:33:37 AM
Haven’t had the chance to catch the new Clone Wars yet....still have a couple episodes left to go on the rewatch.

But, the boys and I did start the rewatch of ‘Rebels’ also. Man....I forgot how cool this series was. So well done.

What’s very evident in watching these two series is that it’s a crime that Dave Filoni wasn’t more involved or directly involved in the new trilogy. He ‘gets’ the Star Wars universe. I wish they’d give him a movie or trilogy to do on his own. I guarantee it’d be incredible.

We're about done with season 2 of Rebels and 100% agree. I'm guessing there's another show in the works.

I believe they’re teasing a Rebels S5. With the way they ended the series it’d be pretty ‘easy’ to get another Season or two. Especially if Filoni is involved.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 06, 2020, 11:11:42 AM
Also, since the emperor used the force to literally take his consciousness out of his body and move it across the universe (which I have big problems with) then why couldn't he just do that before Rey killed him?

If I had to guess, he was probably too weak to do it this time around. But it's a very fair question.

He was actively destroying an entire fleet of ships while taunting Rey and fighting her at the same time.

Yea... I got nothing. My natural inclination is to try and make sense of things but there probably isn't any sense to be had here.

That ship lightning stuff has to be the most OP thing we've ever seen in the cinematic universe right? I couldn't help but laugh at the absurd power on display there. It was so anime

The sequel trilogy definitely had some Dragon Ball Z moments, like the lightning stuff in ROS and Rey powering up so much that rocks were flying around in TLJ. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on March 07, 2020, 12:45:49 PM
To me the Star Wars Sequel trilogy is one of the biggest Hollywood mysteries ever. Speaking from first hand knowledge, Disney plans, analyzes and scrutinizes everything from how many strands of hair on Elsa’s head to the Pantone color of Goofy’s socks and yet they didn’t put together a unified plan/vision and decided to “wing it” for the biggest franchise in move history. It’s baffling to me.

The Force Awakens:
Budget: $306 million
Box office: $2.068 billion

The Last Jedi:
Budget: $200–317 million
Box office: $1.333 billion

Rise of Skywalker:
Budget: $275 million
Box office: $1.073 billion

I wish my employer could be so baffling. Joking aside, I do get what you are saying.

Completely agree. The biggest flaw of the sequel trilogy is the lack of unified vision.

It is nice when a series has that unified vision. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull looks, sounds, and feels like it is part of the IJ saga despite a 20 year gap between it and the last film. . 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 20, 2020, 12:11:59 PM
It has happened.....

https://www.slashfilm.com/rosario-dawson-ahsoka-mandalorian/


I've always liked Dawson as an actress..... Not keen on her political stances but as long as she does justice for Ahsoka then I can get past that.

S2 filming had ended recently so I'm wondering just how much she will appear in the season.....but it bodes well for S3 or even a potential Ahsoka series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on April 07, 2020, 11:25:05 AM
I watched ROS over the weekend, which was my second time. A couple of random observations:

Yea, the cloning tanks were definitely filled with Snokes and he very quickly points out that he made Snoke. So associating the clones just with Snoke seems reasonable.

On second viewing, I didn't notice anything that pointed to the Emperor 100% being a clone, but some of the hints and visual imagery did line up with that idea. I'm not saying it's great writing or anything, but rather that... OK, sure.

That ship lightning stuff has to be the most OP thing we've ever seen in the cinematic universe right? I couldn't help but laugh at the absurd power on display there. It was so anime

I had forgotten that right before the DBZ / OP lightning beams, the Emperor drains almost all the power from Kylo / Rey. Still OP as hell, but I guess it kind of makes sense? The dude stole so much force power it was coming out of his ears. :lol

Also, the movie is genuinely hilarious at times (much more so than TLJ, IMO) and visually stunning. The behind-the-scenes documentary is actually really good. I just wish that the story department at Lucasfilm put as much care into the writing as the practical effects apartment did into their stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zantera on April 10, 2020, 01:50:56 PM
I still think how they handled the emperor returning was really awkward. I mean I watched the trailer and followed gossip before the movie came out but you go from not hearing ANYTHING about the emperor at all in the previous movies - and the last trace we have of him is him being thrown down a shaft and assumed dead - to an opening crawl that starts with "PALPATINE IS BACK" basically. I even remember seeing it in the cinema there was one guy close to me who yelled out a "WHAT?!" and another 2-3 people who seemed a bit confused. Because even with what we got before hand in the trailer with the laugh and the "nobody is ever really gone" you can still draw the conclusion that maybe he will pop up in a force ghost type form, not physically as the main bad guy.

I don't even want to get into the cloning side of it, that's just a whole other headache in itself.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 15, 2020, 08:54:59 AM
Disney Plus will premiere eight-part Mandalorian docuseries on Star Wars Day

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/15/21221963/mandalorian-disney-plus-documentary-docuseries-star-wars-baby-yoda

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 16, 2020, 04:34:43 PM
Just finished up the rewatch of Rebels with the kiddos. Such a good series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on April 17, 2020, 09:05:30 AM
Just finished up the rewatch of Rebels with the kiddos. Such a good series.

We're about half way through season 3. My opinion of it has grown through my second watch through. Definitely as good as Clone Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 17, 2020, 09:42:36 AM
Just finished up the rewatch of Rebels with the kiddos. Such a good series.

We're about half way through season 3. My opinion of it has grown through my second watch through. Definitely as good as Clone Wars.

S4 is pretty awesome also. Non stop pace.....heartbreaking and fulfilling storylines that conclude their arc. Really well done.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 17, 2020, 10:19:56 AM
Just finished up the rewatch of Rebels with the kiddos. Such a good series.
I am doing Clone Wars right now.  Doing a pretty "loose" viewing, with it on during the background while I am working from home at times when I am working on things that do not require full concentration.  I have to say, there were several points during season 1 where I was ready to abandon it.  A lot of season 1 is just not very good.  I am in the middle of the siege of Geonosis arc early in season 2 right now, and I have to say, a lot of the stories are a lot more engaging.  There is still a lot of dumb stuff that has to be overlooked, and a lot of "plagiarism" (I use the term loosely) from other well-known movies, shows, and stories, but it is at least an entertaining journey and something I can have fun with at this point.  Asoka is STILL perhaps one of the most annoying, vapid characters to ever be written.  And her relationship with Anakin is at times incredibly unbelievable and leaves my eyesockets hurting for hours on end from all the eyerolling.  But as the backstory fills in, I find a lot of that to be easier and easier to overlook.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 17, 2020, 10:43:09 AM
  I have to say, there were several points during season 1 where I was ready to abandon it.  A lot of season 1 is just not very good.

Yeah....it took the series a bit to get going and S1 was tough to get through. But it's totally worth it IMO. It gets going pretty good and does a WAY better job of building Anakin as a character than any of the prequels did....like, blows them away. Anakin in TCW's is a pretty remarkable character.

Asoka is STILL perhaps one of the most annoying, vapid characters to ever be written.  And her relationship with Anakin is at times incredibly unbelievable and leaves my eyesockets hurting for hours on end from all the eyerolling.  But as the backstory fills in, I find a lot of that to be easier and easier to overlook.

Same as the series as a whole....once the story gets going her character evolves to be one of the best in the franchise. For me, she is my favorite Jedi over all in any of the platforms.....just ahead of Anakin. Her character from S3 onward is pretty fun to watch her grow into a top tier Jedi.

Rumor has it that these final (4) Episodes of S7 was designed to watch all in a row (even though they aren't released that way) and Filoni and all the character actors say it's one of the best chunks of SW story line to have happened. It's all about the siege of Mandalore and Ahsoka tracks down Maul and has a battle with him. Can't wait.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 17, 2020, 10:48:19 AM
Yeah, I don't doubt any of that.  A lot of great shows flounder in their first season, and then take off later once they find their footing and direction.  So I don't really hold that against this one at all.  Seeing how it improved from S1 to S2, I have no doubt that I might find it thoroughly enjoyable when all is said and done.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 17, 2020, 05:48:52 PM
Holy cow.....this last episode of Clone Wars was AWESOME! Three more to go until the series is over.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on April 18, 2020, 04:59:10 AM
I really need to watch these two series.  Gotta float that idea up with jingle.son to see if he's up for it.  If not, Ima gonna incorporate it into my morning stationary bike rides.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 18, 2020, 10:12:58 AM
I really need to watch these two series.  Gotta float that idea up with jingle.son to see if he's up for it.  If not, Ima gonna incorporate it into my morning stationary bike rides.

I don't think you'd regret the investment. There are 133 total episodes (including the 12 new S7 Ones)....I'll stick with my ratio that 85% of them are pretty fun watches. There are some outliers in there that are boring, typically when they are centered around characters other than Anakin, Obi Wan and Ahsoka. But, being that you're not having to wait a week in between them and have the option to just 'skip' the ones that are boring you.....it should be no big deal.

As Bosk said....S1 is a mixed bag but the show starts to find it's footing in S2 and by the time S2 is over it's in a pretty good groove. Personally, I'd skip the 'Clone Wars' movie that led into the series. It's 'ok' but it's not necessary to watch to be able to make sense of the series.


If/when you complete that and get to Rebels....it's a really fun watch also. It's neat to watch Ezra go from a bratty little D-Bag orphan to a pretty powerful Jedi. Both series introduce some really cool characters that would have been neat to see in live action. Maybe some of them still might make it into live action, who knows?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on April 18, 2020, 10:49:34 AM
I did watch the Clone Wars movies a long long time ago.  Don't really remember much about them though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on April 19, 2020, 02:35:56 AM
The Clone Wars had incredibly high highs and some very embarrassing lows. But retconning the character of Ahsoka into the saga was a good move in retrospect. Without going into spoilers, Ahsoka's story arc in TCW contributes into the descent of Anakin Skywalker into Vader.

In addition, Ahsoka ends up growing into a very likable character. In season 1&2 she was pretty annoying though.

Oh, and the series finale is epic so far!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on April 19, 2020, 09:17:18 AM
The Clone Wars had incredibly high highs and some very embarrassing lows.
This is very true. You could boil the series down to a dozen really awesome story arcs and the rest is pretty forgettable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 19, 2020, 09:59:53 AM
The Clone Wars had incredibly high highs and some very embarrassing lows. But retconning the character of Ahsoka into the saga was a good move in retrospect. Without going into spoilers, Ahsoka's story arc in TCW contributes into the descent of Anakin Skywalker into Vader.

In addition, Ahsoka ends up growing into a very likable character. In season 1&2 she was pretty annoying though.

Oh, and the series finale is epic so far!

Yeah. This final season has been pretty good. That last episode when Ashoka races Rex to Mandalores surface from the transport ships shows just how incredible a Jedi she is. Really cool sequence

Obviously  I’m on record as being a huge fan of Ashoka. Once they got a clear path for her character and got her going she’s pretty remarkable. I am a it nervous about them crossing her over to live action. That’s a lot of expectation to live up to. But I think it’s a smart move as the way they handled her character in TCW’s and Rebels left a lot of story to tell.

Plus, TCW’s does an awesome job of showing how powerful Anakin Skywalker was. He was a complete bad ass. Something the prequel films failed at doing. They handled his journey to the dark side fantastically and expanded he and Palpatines relationship.....better yet....showed how Palpatine groomed him in more depth. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 19, 2020, 10:01:03 AM
The Clone Wars had incredibly high highs and some very embarrassing lows.
This is very true. You could boil the series down to a dozen really awesome story arcs and the rest is pretty forgettable.

I’m still endorsing an 85/15 split. The bulk of it is worthwhile and fun to watch.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 19, 2020, 11:12:23 PM
Plus, TCW’s does an awesome job of showing how powerful Anakin Skywalker was. He was a complete bad ass. Something the prequel films failed at doing. They handled his journey to the dark side fantastically and expanded he and Palpatines relationship.....better yet....showed how Palpatine groomed him in more depth. 

Right now, I am living a bit conflicted with this.  Seeing how powerful Anakin was makes me of two minds.  On one hand, I like what TCW does with that and feel like they are doing it so much better than the films.  On the other hand, because film just feels more "real" than an animated show, I cannot help subconsciously objecting to the series "changing" the character we saw in the films. 

As far as Anakin and Palpatine, they haven't really gotten into that much up to where I am in the series.  But that was sorely needed in the films, so I am looking forward to seeing some of that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 20, 2020, 01:16:30 AM
Right now, I am living a bit conflicted with this.  Seeing how powerful Anakin was makes me of two minds.  On one hand, I like what TCW does with that and feel like they are doing it so much better than the films.  On the other hand, because film just feels more "real" than an animated show, I cannot help subconsciously objecting to the series "changing" the character we saw in the films. 

As far as Anakin and Palpatine, they haven't really gotten into that much up to where I am in the series.  But that was sorely needed in the films, so I am looking forward to seeing some of that.

I don’t see TCW’s as changing Anakin though. That would mean that the prequels actually did something to make him a character in the first place. Which IMO they failed at. Anakin was never Anakin in the prequels.....he was the dude that became Darth Vadar. Everything was Vadar centered as far as any attempt at developing Anakin in those movies

TCW’s builds Anakin into an actual character and for me at least.....that’s where one needs to go to learn about who Anakin Skywalker was. He’s crafted perfectly and TCW’s does SO much more for that character than the prequels ever did. I personally can’t even watch the prequels now due to how bad the discrepancy is between who Anakin is.

The ‘real’ Anakin IMO is TCW Anakin who was carefully developed over 133 episodes not the poor interpretation we were given in those prequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on April 24, 2020, 04:46:32 AM
Today's episode of The Clone Wars was fantastic!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 24, 2020, 09:26:09 AM
Today's episode of The Clone Wars was fantastic!

Can’t wait! Me and the kiddos usually watch later in the evening. The consensus amongst the Brass and people that have seen them is that the last (4) episodes of TCWs is some of the best SW content of the SW universe. Last weeks episode was awesome and that was the first of the last 4.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 24, 2020, 05:47:13 PM
Today's episode of The Clone Wars was fantastic!

Holy cow! You weren’t lying. Just another example of why Ahsoka is a complete bad a$$. Rey who?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 24, 2020, 06:50:16 PM
Concerning the last episode of TCW’s .....I like how they’ve now entered a the time frame of Anakin becoming Vadar. I’m really curious as if to we get to see more detail of the newly knighted Vadar destroying the Jedi temple? I felt for Ashoka this episode given how she defended Anakin against Mauls insistence Anakin was Sideous’s new apprentice.

These final two episodes are going to be crazy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on April 25, 2020, 03:54:42 AM
I don't think we see Obi Wan and Anakin in the last two episodes. Dave Filoni stated that Ahsoka and Rex are essentially the two main characters of TCW, so I think what we see from this point on, will be from their point of view.

I think the last 2 episodes will be about Ahsoka, Rex and Maul working together to escape the purge and The Empire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 25, 2020, 10:36:09 AM
I don't think we see Obi Wan and Anakin in the last two episodes. Dave Filoni stated that Ahsoka and Rex are essentially the two main characters of TCW, so I think what we see from this point on, will be from their point of view.

I think the last 2 episodes will be about Ahsoka, Rex and Maul working together to escape the purge and The Empire.

Yeah. I can see that. The entire point behind having a S7 was to clarify Ashoka (and Rex’s) story. Everything was just so open ended when the show was stopped last time.

All I know is that it’s been awesome. Especially the past few. There were a couple episodes there with the sisters that were kind of slow but were needed.


SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO MAY WATCH






I love how Maul was mad Skywalker didn’t come.....and as they’re fighting Ashoka tells him he’s lucky Anakin didn’t show up....that with the way he was fighting Anakin would have killed him by now. To me, this point out that Ashoka could have killed him by that point in the battle as well. She was instructed by Obi Wan to capture....not kill....Maul. So her saying that to Maul that she’d already identified when and where she could have delivered a death blow....and that Anakin wouldn’t have been so nice. He’d have killed him and apologized later. Then, just to prove just how good a Jedi she really is....she does capture Maul....not kill him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on April 26, 2020, 04:49:49 AM
Started watching with jingle.son last night - tackled the first three episodes.  Kinda cringey, but we're going in with the expectation that S1 and S2 are gonna be that way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 26, 2020, 09:55:22 AM
Started watching with jingle.son last night - tackled the first three episodes.  Kinda cringey, but we're going in with the expectation that S1 and S2 are gonna be that way.

I think even by the end of S1 you’ll start to notice a difference. I’m excited for you.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 27, 2020, 08:04:47 AM
I'm in S3, and the cringe is still strong with this one.  But that said, as it progresses, there are more and more strong episodes and less cringe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 27, 2020, 09:33:33 AM
I'm in S3, and the cringe is still strong with this one.  But that said, as it progresses, there are more and more strong episodes and less cringe.

How far into S3? I thought S2 had some pretty neat stuff actually. Cad Bane....we learn Obi Wan was/is in love with someone.....the battle on Geonosis had a couple cool episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on April 27, 2020, 10:05:57 AM
I thought Cad Bane was kind of dumb personally. Didn't really care for those episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 27, 2020, 10:11:17 AM
I thought Cad Bane was kind of dumb personally. Didn't really care for those episodes.

Really? I liked him to the extent of he was just a tough character to catch/kill/outsmart. Him and Hondo were a couple of the second tier characters that brought a different look to the cast.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on April 27, 2020, 10:47:46 AM
Just saw Rise of Skywalker will be on Disney+ on May 04. Hopefully I can carve out 2 kid-free hours to watch this. Never got to the theater to see it. After TLJ (really after TFA) my interest in this series waned heavily.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 27, 2020, 10:51:21 AM
Just saw Rise of Skywalker will be on Disney+ on May 04. Hopefully I can carve out 2 kid-free hours to watch this. Never got to the theater to see it. After TLJ (really after TFA) my interest in this series waned heavily.

Saw that too. Smart move by them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 28, 2020, 07:48:11 AM
Oh, cool!  I've come close to buying it several times, but just haven't gotten around to it.  Been dying to see it a second (and third, and fourth, and...) time. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on April 28, 2020, 09:30:13 AM
I'm going to pick up the Target 4k edition since it comes with a nice photo book when it drops to a decent price. There is a documentary included in the video release and hopefully Disney+ includes it next week.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 28, 2020, 12:17:59 PM
SPOILERS from the Last episode of The Clone Wars




To anyone who is up to date or seen the last episode. I've been watching the fight between Ahsoka and Maul a few times and comparing it to some of the other light saber battles in the series.....and....I want to say that the choreography and actual fight scene was 'real'....meaning, it looked like they used the green screen and motion technology. The movements are VERY lifelike. Much more lifelike than typical in the series. Anyone else notice that?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 28, 2020, 11:23:11 PM
SPOILERS from the Last episode of The Clone Wars




To anyone who is up to date or seen the last episode. I've been watching the fight between Ahsoka and Maul a few times and comparing it to some of the other light saber battles in the series.....and....I want to say that the choreography and actual fight scene was 'real'....meaning, it looked like they used the green screen and motion technology. The movements are VERY lifelike. Much more lifelike than typical in the series. Anyone else notice that?

Well I swear I had no idea that it actually was motion capture when I posted that. You could really tell though.


Spoilery vid about Ray coming back as Maul to film the saber duel.


https://youtu.be/qzYyJa2Upas
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 01, 2020, 04:27:44 PM
Another fantastic episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 04, 2020, 01:52:06 PM

:clap:    Congratulations to Dave Filoni for providing some of the best SW content available in The Clone Wars. It's tough to improve on a product....but the story and characters in this series just continued to evolve and get better with each episode right down to the last scene. Very hard to do and it's well worth the watch.


Clone wars spoilers just in case:







Very beautiful and perfect resolution to Ahsoka's story in The Clone Wars. It was remarkably touching........and the final scene when Anakin shows up as Vadar.....just WOW. Really well done because of how great a job they did in that series actually building Anakin as a character and developing he and Ahsoka's relationship. It was a chilling, stunning, sad scene.

And, the Score in the final (4) Episodes alone was incredible....the last two in particular. Set the mood perfectly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on May 04, 2020, 01:58:24 PM
Taika Waititi is going to direct a stand alone Star Wars movie and going to co-write it. It should be great, I don't think I've ever seen anything with him that I didn't like.

And I really need to start watching the Rebels and Clone Wars cartoons.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 04, 2020, 02:06:09 PM
And I really need to start watching the Rebels and Clone Wars cartoons.

As I mentioned to Chad and Bosk.....TCW's takes a bit to get going but they really hit their stride in S3 and never looks back. Good thing is, the episodes are only 20 minutes long. Bad thing....there are 133 of them  :lol   I'm sticking with 8/10 of them are 'good' and worth the watch. There are some throw aways in there but for me....the best thing about the series is that you actually get to see Anakin Skywalker develop as a Jedi Knight and person. I stated a few pages back in this thread that it's far better than what we are shown in the prequels and I consider 'Anakin Skywalker' the character that we see in TCW's.....not the shell of a character that's shown to us in those prequels. And obviously if you've been reading I'm on record as saying that Ahsoka is my all time favorite SW Character....she is a sliver behind Anakin and a sliver ahead of Obi Wan in my 'favorite' Jedi category. And speaking of Obi Wan.....you get a real nice development of him has well in this series. Much more depth that what we were given in the short time in the movies.

Rebels is really good also. It gets going a bit quicker than The Clone Wars but young Ezra is a bit of a punk to put up with the first bit. Cools story, cool characters and really well done show also.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 04, 2020, 02:07:36 PM
Morning question for my kid's class today: "Who is your favorite SW character?" So many people said Rey, with a couple Poe and BB8 answers. No appreciation for the original trilogy :sad
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 04, 2020, 02:10:08 PM
So many people said Rey,

Not just saying this....but, from what I've seen from Rey and Ahsoka on ability alone.....Ahsoka owns Rey. It's really not even close.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 04, 2020, 02:15:40 PM
I should have said these are 3rd graders so their SW knowledge might be limited. My kid said Chewbacca because that is literally the only SW character she knows. But hell I have no idea who Ahsoka is. Thought you were talking about the wrestler, but that is Asuka.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 04, 2020, 02:24:37 PM
But hell I have no idea who Ahsoka is.

That's the bummer part about TCW's and Rebels. It's considered Cannon and has dramatically improved characters like Anakin, Obi Wan, General Grevious, Darth Maul, Count Dooku and countless others you only got a glimpse of.....and introduced characters like Ahsoka.....and there are a ton of SW fans that just haven't watched.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 04, 2020, 02:26:31 PM
I just signed up for Disney+ for the kids being stuck at home so have the option to check out those series. I just don't have the time, and honestly, a limited amount of interest.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on May 04, 2020, 06:36:48 PM
Rey is way cooler Ahsoka. She’s just kind of meh and not at all developed.

Ahsoka? More like ahsucka.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 04, 2020, 08:46:13 PM
Mid-way through season 4 (at the point of a certain person going undercover, having to do with bounty hunters, and a cube), and I'm still waiting for Asoka to become cool.  I mean, she's fine.  But her character still hasn't evolved to anything close to compelling for me. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 04, 2020, 08:56:45 PM
Rey is way cooler Ahsoka. She’s just kind of meh and not at all developed.

Ahsoka? More like ahsucka.

Nice try
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on May 04, 2020, 08:59:19 PM
Rey is way cooler Ahsoka. She’s just kind of meh and not at all developed.

Ahsoka? More like ahsucka.

Nice try

 ;D

I’m looking forward to seeing her in the Mandalorian. It’ll be my first real exposure to her.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 04, 2020, 09:01:44 PM
Mid-way through season 4 (at the point of a certain person going undercover, having to do with bounty hunters, and a cube), and I'm still waiting for Asoka to become cool.  I mean, she's fine.  But her character still hasn't evolved to anything close to compelling for me.

All the seasons/episodes kind of run together for me so it’s tough to recall ‘where’ in the story her character is.

I personally think her character arc is fantastic. Especially in the eyes of having just watched the finale. May not be like that for everyone....but your summation of where your at with her right now with still three seasons to go is where I’m at with Rey with no story left to tell.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 04, 2020, 09:03:34 PM
Rey is way cooler Ahsoka. She’s just kind of meh and not at all developed.

Ahsoka? More like ahsucka.

Nice try

 ;D

I’m looking forward to seeing her in the Mandalorian. It’ll be my first real exposure to her.

If you want a cheat sheet just watch the last (4) episodes of S7. It’ll give you a sense of where she ended up. Unless you plan on watching TCW’s then that may ruin it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on May 04, 2020, 09:33:40 PM
Just re-watched Rise of Skywalker with the wife, she hadn't seen it in theaters. She really liked it, was surprised it received a lot of hate. On my re-watch I liked it more than before it's still very messy and a mix of a million parts but overall I still liked the feel of it. Story is definitely very hokey and convenient and several underdeveloped beats, it's too bad it was 2 movies crammed into one. But I still enjoyed it quite a bit. Don't know where I'd rank it, above the prequels for sure probably #6.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on May 05, 2020, 06:17:41 PM
I think if you put together those last 4 episodes of the clone wars into a movie, it would be better than any of the prequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: romdrums on May 05, 2020, 08:08:04 PM
I would dare say that Clone Wars and Rebels approach Empire Strikes Back as the best stories in all of Star Wars.  I agree with Gary that The Clone Wars really fleshed out Anakin after his weak treatment in the prequels.  I’d also say Count Dooku was also really developed as a villain.  The way he used and then discarded Asajj Ventress was especially well done.  One of my favorite episodes was from Season Six, when Anakin and Obi-Wan track down what happened to Master Sifo-Dyas.  The fight between Anakin and Dooku was the best one of the series. 

Rebels was really good too, and it really got good once Thrawn entered the fray.  They really did a great job on the development of the main characters.  Ezra proved to be an incredibly powerful Jedi, and it was so cool to watch him being challenged by the dark side and never took the bait. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 05, 2020, 08:17:02 PM
I think if you put together those last 4 episodes of the clone wars into a movie, it would be better than any of the prequels.

Without a doubt. I still can’t get over how awesome the Score was in this eason.....and definitely the last four.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 05, 2020, 08:20:10 PM
I would dare say that Clone Wars and Rebels approach Empire Strikes Back as the best stories in all of Star Wars.  I agree with Gary that The Clone Wars really fleshed out Anakin after his weak treatment in the prequels.  I’d also say Count Dooku was also really developed as a villain.  The way he used and then discarded Asajj Ventress was especially well done.  One of my favorite episodes was from Season Six, when Anakin and Obi-Wan track down what happened to Master Sifo-Dyas.  The fight between Anakin and Dooku was the best one of the series. 

Rebels was really good too, and it really got good once Thrawn entered the fray.  They really did a great job on the development of the main characters.  Ezra proved to be an incredibly powerful Jedi, and it was so cool to watch him being challenged by the dark side and never took the bait.

Yeah. The characters that were just thrown onscreen for a few flashy moments in the prequels were really given great attention in TCW’s.


Agree about Ezra. His character growth was awesome to watch. There’s a rumor about a Rebels S5 happening soon OR even he and/or Sabine showing up in The Mandalorian. Which, given the way Rebels ended and the rumored Ahsoka appearance ‘could’ make sense?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lonestar on May 06, 2020, 10:00:43 PM
Definitely take the time to watch the Mandalorian Gallery special, real cool behind the scenes look.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 08, 2020, 08:03:03 AM
Wow, the Ventriss story arc suddenly took a VERY dark turn.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 08, 2020, 10:35:22 AM
Wow, the Ventriss story arc suddenly took a VERY dark turn.

Didn't it? The Sith are ruthless
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 08, 2020, 10:40:16 AM
So it's being reported/rumored now that Hayden Christensen has signed on to be a part of the Obi Wan live action series. If true, that has to speak to some flashback sequences. Could be interesting.

Another rumor that is all over the internet is that Disney has brought Lucas back in to write/give direction on SW's because they're ticked off at how bad a job Kathleen Kennedy has done with it. From what I've gleaned they want Lucas to Retcon the character of Rey moving forward.....that they didn't like Kennedy's vision for that character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on May 08, 2020, 10:42:10 AM
So it's being reported/rumored now that Hayden Christensen has signed on to be a part of the Obi Wan live action series. If true, that has to speak to some flashback sequences. Could be interesting.

Another rumor that is all over the internet is that Disney has brought Lucas back in to write/give direction on SW's because they're ticked off at how bad a job Kathleen Kennedy has done with it. From what I've gleaned they want Lucas to Retcon the character of Rey moving forward.....that they didn't like Kennedy's vision for that character.

I dunno how I feel about Hayden if he were to return. I actually like Hayden as an actor (just not in the prequels) but he's also...18 years older or something since the last time we saw him? Not sure how smooth it'll be to a flashback to a guy who is 18 years older than he was before, you know? But maybe they can make it work. They certainly did a great job thus far with the shows.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 08, 2020, 10:44:50 AM
So it's being reported/rumored now that Hayden Christensen has signed on to be a part of the Obi Wan live action series. If true, that has to speak to some flashback sequences. Could be interesting.

Another rumor that is all over the internet is that Disney has brought Lucas back in to write/give direction on SW's because they're ticked off at how bad a job Kathleen Kennedy has done with it. From what I've gleaned they want Lucas to Retcon the character of Rey moving forward.....that they didn't like Kennedy's vision for that character.

I dunno how I feel about Hayden if he were to return. I actually like Hayden as an actor (just not in the prequels) but he's also...18 years older or something since the last time we saw him? Not sure how smooth it'll be to a flashback to a guy who is 18 years older than he was before, you know? But maybe they can make it work. They certainly did a great job thus far with the shows.

I thought the same. He'd definitely 'look' different but then again....if it's done well and it's a story that is actually good.....I could overlook it. I would think it'd be limited scenes if they were flashback?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on May 08, 2020, 10:46:13 AM
True. Maybe a dream sequence as a manifestation of Obi Wan's guilt? Or a vision of sorts?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on May 08, 2020, 11:17:52 AM
It seems like the animated series throw out the Sith rule of 2. Duuku has Ventriss as an apprentice even though he is an apprentice himself. In Rebels there are the Inquisitors, which are basically apprentices of Vader, again himself an apprentice. I know it's nice to have more villains, but it kind of flies in the face of what we've been told about the rule of 2.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 08, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
It seems like the animated series throw out the Sith rule of 2. Duuku has Ventriss as an apprentice even though he is an apprentice himself. In Rebels there are the Inquisitors, which are basically apprentices of Vader, again himself an apprentice. I know it's nice to have more villains, but it kind of flies in the face of what we've been told about the rule of 2.

I think Dooku was doing that behind the Emperors back though. I think the Emperor knew he had a force sensitive assassin....but didn’t count her as an apprentice.

Same with the Inquisitors I thought.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on May 08, 2020, 01:07:46 PM
It seems like the animated series throw out the Sith rule of 2. Duuku has Ventriss as an apprentice even though he is an apprentice himself. In Rebels there are the Inquisitors, which are basically apprentices of Vader, again himself an apprentice. I know it's nice to have more villains, but it kind of flies in the face of what we've been told about the rule of 2.

I think Dooku was doing that behind the Emperors back though. I think the Emperor knew he had a force sensitive assassin....but didn’t count her as an apprentice.

Same with the Inquisitors I thought.
That could be. I guess it is normal for the apprentice to overthrow the master, so it makes sense that they would have their own apprentice lined up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on May 08, 2020, 01:55:07 PM
The Inquisitors were barely even apprentices. They were all former Jedi who were spared and turned to the dark side, just so they could help Vader hunt down the remaining Jedi who survived the purge in Revenge of the Sith. Vader can't be everywhere at once.

They were taught just enough in the ways of the dark side that they could be effective in their mission, but easy for Vader and The Emperor to mop up when all the Jedi have been exterminated. That's why Kanan and Ezra are able to stand up to them with barely any training, and why Ahsoka wipes the floor with them in that one Rebels episode. They were just tools for Vader and The Emperor.

Oh, and TCW finale was epic! I was very intrigued by the music. That music at the end of the final episode, sounded almost like the "Blade Runner" score by Vangelis. Huge props to the composer: Kevin Kinner.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zook on May 08, 2020, 02:58:27 PM
I have 44 minutes left of Rise of Skywalker and I've enjoyed it so far. I tried watching Last Jedi but skipped a good hour of it. It's just not very good. Even without all the negativity surrounding it, I'd probably still be bored to tears. Ive watched plenty of negative reviews on Rise, and I'm still enjoying it for what it is.

My biggest gripe would be the comedy. Yeah, it's entertaining, but much like Age of Ultron, the characters never feel like they're in danger. Stop quipping! Stormtroopers have guns aimed at your head! I know how it ends, but I'm going to finish it, and then probably never watch it again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on May 08, 2020, 03:00:48 PM
To be fair, Stormtroopers with guns aimed at your head doesn't actually mean you're in any danger.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zook on May 08, 2020, 03:11:08 PM
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 08, 2020, 04:43:09 PM
The Inquisitors were barely even apprentices. They were all former Jedi who were spared and turned to the dark side, just so they could help Vader hunt down the remaining Jedi who survived the purge in Revenge of the Sith. Vader can't be everywhere at once.

They were taught just enough in the ways of the dark side that they could be effective in their mission, but easy for Vader and The Emperor to mop up when all the Jedi have been exterminated. That's why Kanan and Ezra are able to stand up to them with barely any training, and why Ahsoka wipes the floor with them in that one Rebels episode. They were just tools for Vader and The Emperor.

Oh, and TCW finale was epic! I was very intrigued by the music. That music at the end of the final episode, sounded almost like the "Blade Runner" score by Vangelis. Huge props to the composer: Kevin Kinner.

Makes sense. And I agree 100% about the music. Especially the last four episodes.....and really in the last two.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 08, 2020, 07:59:45 PM
Starting TROS with the kiddos.....this will be their 2nd watch.....my 5th.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on May 08, 2020, 08:12:23 PM
Starting TROS with the kiddos.....this will be their 2nd watch.....my 5th.

Revenge of the 5th!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 08, 2020, 10:18:47 PM
Starting TROS with the kiddos.....this will be their 2nd watch.....my 5th.

Yep. I still dig it. Could definitely be nit picked (as we know from this thread) but it’s a fun movie. Would have still loved to see Anakin reanimate out of some swirling dust or something at the end to take on Palpatine and kill him when Rey was petitioning the Jedi to ‘be with her’   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 09, 2020, 09:45:01 AM
Starting TROS with the kiddos.....this will be their 2nd watch.....my 5th.

Yep. I still dig it. Could definitely be nit picked (as we know from this thread) but it’s a fun movie.

Same.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Bolsters on May 09, 2020, 08:02:53 PM
I've only seen TROS once, so maybe I missed if there was an explanation for this, but one nitpick I have: Near the end of the film when the crew are riding their animals into battle on top of the ships...why don't they just take the ship up? :lol It's a spaceship, it can go into space, but they just hover in place and send their own troops out onto the hull to fight the rebels and waste time until the control tower is blown up. They wouldn't even need to get to orbit, with enough elevation the air will become too thin and the rebels would all suffocate; that's if any of them were even able to remain on the hull during acceleration.

The villain forces in Star Wars are usually complete dolts anyway so I guess it fits, but this one really sticks out for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zook on May 09, 2020, 08:17:32 PM
I've only seen TROS once, so maybe I missed if there was an explanation for this, but one nitpick I have: Near the end of the film when the crew are riding their animals into battle on top of the ships...why don't they just take the ship up? :lol It's a spaceship, it can go into space, but they just hover in place and send their own troops out onto the hull to fight the rebels and waste time until the control tower is blown up. They wouldn't even need to get to orbit, with enough elevation the air will become too thin and the rebels would all suffocate; that's if any of them were even able to remain on the hull during acceleration.

The villain forces in Star Wars are usually complete dolts anyway so I guess it fits, but this one really sticks out for me.

Probably because there were about 150 gazillion other star destroyers in the way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Bolsters on May 09, 2020, 10:15:18 PM
Probably because there were about 150 gazillion other star destroyers in the way.
They were all at the same altitude though weren't they? Seems reasonable that if they can hover like that, they can go up even if at a low speed without having to go forward. Even if they could only go forward, why couldn't it angle 45 degrees before accelerating?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zook on May 10, 2020, 07:26:33 AM
Probably because there were about 150 gazillion other star destroyers in the way.
They were all at the same altitude though weren't they? Seems reasonable that if they can hover like that, they can go up even if at a low speed without having to go forward. Even if they could only go forward, why couldn't it angle 45 degrees before accelerating?

Maybe they were. I think they went overboard with control+v. 10 star destroyers would have been plenty. If the villians were smart, there wouldn't be a movie. With all their fire power, those horses would have been toast anyway. Although, after the charge, we didn't see them at any point afterward. They just disappeared. I think the more we question the movie, the dumber it gets.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on May 10, 2020, 09:17:36 AM
That's the problem with style over substance. Somebody thought "hey, wouldn't it be cool if they rode horses while trying to destroy a star destroyer?" And everyone was like "yeah, that'd be sweet!" So they did it without taking into account any logic. I know logic is kind of out the window in a scifi movie, but there still needs to be some logic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on May 10, 2020, 09:34:11 AM
Logic is front and center in a sci-fi movie.  The focus is on the logical extension of current and developing technologies, and how our lives will be different.

But Star Wars is not science fiction.  It's blockbuster entertainment that takes place in what some people have mistakenly taken to be a science fiction setting.  The very first words we hear are that it took place "A long time ago".  That's why they have a bizarre mix of what we would consider futuristic tech and people living in mud huts in the desert.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 10, 2020, 09:46:41 AM
Logic is front and center in a sci-fi movie.  The focus is on the logical extension of current and developing technologies, and how our lives will be different.

But Star Wars is not science fiction.  It's blockbuster entertainment that takes place in what some people have mistakenly taken to be a science fiction setting.  The very first words we hear are that it took place "A long time ago".  That's why they have a bizarre mix of what we would consider futuristic tech and people living in mud huts in the desert.

Not to mention just 'how' would Han, Chewie...Luke...Rey...Poe...etc etc stay seated or even walk around the Falcon while it was twisting and turning through space? It's something that has zero explanation or could possible work yet I'm willing to suspend disbelief that it 'just does'.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on May 10, 2020, 09:54:30 AM
Yep.  It is absolutely style over substance.  Like any movie of this type, it breaks down when you try to figure out how most of it even works.  It is only meant to make enough sense in the moment for you to accept what's going on and follow it to the next plot point big explosion or fight scene.  Sometimes we're lucky enough to get a good, cohesive story to pull everything together, but that's the exception, not the rule.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 10, 2020, 12:05:10 PM
Another rumor that is all over the internet is that Disney has brought Lucas back in to write/give direction on SW's because they're ticked off at how bad a job Kathleen Kennedy has done with it.

I didn't realize she had that much say over creative issues.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 10, 2020, 09:14:33 PM
Definitely take the time to watch the Mandalorian Gallery special, real cool behind the scenes look.

Just watched the first episode. Man, you really get an appreciation for it all. And...you get a touch of understanding  just HOW much Filoni knows about Star Wars, when actors and fellow directors are in awe. I liked the snippet of him trying to explain his thought process of the Storm Trooper helmets on the pikes to when Lucas cut to 3PO’s head after he’d been blown to pieces. Favereau had no idea of what Filoni was talking about and admired it  :lol

Anyway.....pretty cool stuff.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 12, 2020, 11:52:46 AM
I hope this is true.....seems legit but no 'official' confirmation    :metal   


https://www.slashfilm.com/the-mandalorian-season-2-bo-katan/ 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on May 12, 2020, 05:33:03 PM
I hope they don't try to cram in too many legacy characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 12, 2020, 05:35:50 PM
I hope they don't try to cram in too many legacy characters.

I have faith in Filoni. It seems like the characters they’ve announced ‘make sense’ being the way Rebels ended and would seamlessly fit into the timeline and story of the Mandalorian.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on May 13, 2020, 01:51:06 AM
I hope they don't try to cram in too many legacy characters.

This is my fear too.

One of the biggest reasons why I loved The Mandalorian was, that it was a pretty simple story in the SW universe. I Fear that adding too many legacy characters will undermine that. But Dave Filoni has a constantly proven track record with Star Wars, so I'm open to see what comes out of this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 13, 2020, 10:02:25 AM
I hope they don't try to cram in too many legacy characters.

This is my fear too.

One of the biggest reasons why I loved The Mandalorian was, that it was a pretty simple story in the SW universe. I Fear that adding too many legacy characters will undermine that. But Dave Filoni has a constantly proven track record with Star Wars, so I'm open to see what comes out of this.

But...as has been proven here, these legacy characters aren't as well known as say if they brought Lando Calrissian into the frey. Yes, these are major SW characters because of the roles they played in the two animated series.....but the familiarity to the overall SW fan base is dependent on if you watched the animated series or not. This is a perfect way for Filoni and Co. to introduce them to people who have no idea who they are AND people like me who do.

The point in time the show is set in is honestly 'perfect' because it doesn't intersect any of the timeline(s) of The Clone Wars or Rebels so continuity issues from that standpoint will not be a problem. And, with the way those two series left off....those particular characters did/do have a story that left everyone curious about what came after.

When 'The Mandalorian' was announced everyone was curious as to 'why' they chose that angle. Why a Mandalorian? It's really looking like the exact opposite of the sequel trilogy series right now. It appears that Favereau and Filioni actually HAVE a plan to tell a continuing story to where this may branch off into another series or two outside of The Mandalorian. There's simply zero reason to doubt them right now. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on May 13, 2020, 10:25:06 AM
My only concern is the motivation behind telling everyone who will be appearing. They didn't make one damn announcement about Baby Yoda, so maybe they're still holding back. Though I'm starting to wonder if they're using Mando season 2, in part, to advertise for Clone Wars and Rebels. They're announcing these legacy characters so that people (such as myself) feel the need to go and watch the other shows too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 13, 2020, 11:01:41 AM
My only concern is the motivation behind telling everyone who will be appearing. They didn't make one damn announcement about Baby Yoda, so maybe they're still holding back. Though I'm starting to wonder if they're using Mando season 2, in part, to advertise for Clone Wars and Rebels. They're announcing these legacy characters so that people (such as myself) feel the need to go and watch the other shows too.

Both Ahsoka and Boka Ton have not been officially recognized by Disney or the actresses. I suspect it was supposed to be a secret and leaked somehow.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on May 14, 2020, 02:26:26 PM
Should have grabbed the link, but it sounds like Ahsoka is getting a live action series on Disney+ also featuring Boka Ton. Sounds like it will be a continuation of Rebels essentially. So they'll make a short appearance in The Mandalorian in order to launch their own series. Same with Boba Fett apparently. He'll be getting his own Disney+ series as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on May 14, 2020, 02:28:23 PM
Should have grabbed the link, but it sounds like Ahsoka is getting a live action series on Disney+ also featuring Boka Ton. Sounds like it will be a continuation of Rebels essentially. So they'll make a short appearance in The Mandalorian in order to launch their own series. Same with Boba Fett apparently. He'll be getting his own Disney+ series as well.

Maybe. It's all rumors.

Star Wars has a huge problem with giant rumors coming out and then never really going anywhere.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on May 14, 2020, 02:35:47 PM
Should have grabbed the link, but it sounds like Ahsoka is getting a live action series on Disney+ also featuring Boka Ton. Sounds like it will be a continuation of Rebels essentially. So they'll make a short appearance in The Mandalorian in order to launch their own series. Same with Boba Fett apparently. He'll be getting his own Disney+ series as well.

Maybe. It's all rumors.

Star Wars has a huge problem with giant rumors coming out and then never really going anywhere.
Yeah, haven't seen it in multiple places yet, so I guess it's rumors. The site I read it on made it sound like it's a done deal, but I'll believe it when it's officially announced.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on May 14, 2020, 02:38:21 PM
Should have grabbed the link, but it sounds like Ahsoka is getting a live action series on Disney+ also featuring Boka Ton. Sounds like it will be a continuation of Rebels essentially. So they'll make a short appearance in The Mandalorian in order to launch their own series. Same with Boba Fett apparently. He'll be getting his own Disney+ series as well.

Maybe. It's all rumors.

Star Wars has a huge problem with giant rumors coming out and then never really going anywhere.
Yeah, haven't seen it in multiple places yet, so I guess it's rumors. The site I read it on made it sound like it's a done deal, but I'll believe it when it's officially announced.

I mostly stress it because of how many Star Wars movies/shows are announced and then never happen. I know Boba and the two cartoon gals will likely be on Mandolorian, but I doubt they're working on their own shows anytime soon. Maybe if they get amazing reactions and so forth, but not this early.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 14, 2020, 02:38:51 PM
Should have grabbed the link, but it sounds like Ahsoka is getting a live action series on Disney+ also featuring Boka Ton. Sounds like it will be a continuation of Rebels essentially. So they'll make a short appearance in The Mandalorian in order to launch their own series. Same with Boba Fett apparently. He'll be getting his own Disney+ series as well.

Maybe. It's all rumors.

Star Wars has a huge problem with giant rumors coming out and then never really going anywhere.
Yeah, haven't seen it in multiple places yet, so I guess it's rumors. The site I read it on made it sound like it's a done deal, but I'll believe it when it's officially announced.

I've seen it a couple places as well. I think, like the Ahsoka 'rumor'.....that Disney didn't want it getting out. They wanted that 'baby yoda' moment for S2 but it leaked.

Boka Ton makes sense because she was the last person with the Dark Saber so her showing up would fit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ariich on May 14, 2020, 11:58:16 PM
Finally got round to seeing The Rise of Skywalker and it was good. Didn't blow me away or anything, but I liked it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 18, 2020, 11:37:08 AM
If you have Disney+.....do yourself a favor and watch Episode 2 of the Gallery series on the Mandalorian......if you don't want to watch the whole thing PLEASE Fast Forward into the episode 21:45 when Dave Filoni speaks and listen to him for that three minutes or so. It perfectly demonstrates why he's so successful in writing/crafting these SW stories. He's just on another level of understanding the SW universe than anyone else.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 18, 2020, 11:45:33 AM
I plan to get to that once I finish Clone Wars.  I forget off the top of my head whether I'm toward the end of S5 or the beginning of S6.  This series continues to be all over the place.  I mean, you get some pretty cool story arcs like Maul/Savage, and Anakin and Asoka basically planting the seeds of the rebellion by teaching Saw Gerrera and his cohorts how to use guerrilla tactics and insurrection, which in some ways make this series better than most or all of what we actually got in the PT.  And then you have stuff like R2 and the droid special forces unit that is easily some of the worst SW has to offer.  I just don't get how the series can be this inconsistent this far in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 18, 2020, 12:05:19 PM
I plan to get to that once I finish Clone Wars.  I forget off the top of my head whether I'm toward the end of S5 or the beginning of S6.  This series continues to be all over the place.  I mean, you get some pretty cool story arcs like Maul/Savage, and Anakin and Asoka basically planting the seeds of the rebellion by teaching Saw Gerrera and his cohorts how to use guerrilla tactics and insurrection, which in some ways make this series better than most or all of what we actually got in the PT.  And then you have stuff like R2 and the droid special forces unit that is easily some of the worst SW has to offer. I just don't get how the series can be this inconsistent this far in.

I know. There are some pretty cringe worthy episodes when they throw stuff out of the blue in there. Those were usually the ones that you could tell were geared directly towards kids. For me 8/10 episodes were fine. There were always a couple clunkers thrown about.....but, I thought the series progressed nicely. I enjoyed getting more meat on the bones with characters like Obi Wan, Anakin, Dooku, Grevious.....and a couple of the other Jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 18, 2020, 12:11:12 PM
One of the issues I am having with watching in D+ is that I sometimes find that it loses my place instead of resuming where I left off.  I don't know if it is a D+ glitch, or if the kids are accidentally using my profile, or what.  But I have missed a couple of episodes here and there.  I think I've gone back and picked up what I missed, but not 100% sure.  One question I have related to that:  There have been a few different threads now of Death Watch.  Is there an episode explaining the origin of that dark saber?  If so, I think I might have missed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on May 18, 2020, 12:54:14 PM
One of the issues I am having with watching in D+ is that I sometimes find that it loses my place instead of resuming where I left off.  I don't know if it is a D+ glitch, or if the kids are accidentally using my profile, or what.  But I have missed a couple of episodes here and there.  I think I've gone back and picked up what I missed, but not 100% sure.  One question I have related to that:  There have been a few different threads now of Death Watch.  Is there an episode explaining the origin of that dark saber?  If so, I think I might have missed it.
I don't have that problem at all with Disney+ for what it's worth. And no, the dark saber is never really explained unless I completely missed something.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on May 22, 2020, 04:43:54 AM
Anyone else watching The Mandalorian documentary series on D+? Episode 4 is on the technology and it's fascinating. Much of the show was filmed on a set that was completely surrounded by LED screens rather than green screens. Really cool technology.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 27, 2020, 10:33:37 AM
Much of the show was filmed on a set that was completely surrounded by LED screens rather than green screens. Really cool technology.

Yeah. that looks awesome. Really cool idea. I can't imagine that setup is cheap  :lol  The clarity on those screens is amazing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 28, 2020, 10:37:03 AM
Watched Skywalker for the first time yesterday.

Quick side-trip down memory lane.... Star Wars was as big a part of my childhood as anything. Born in 76, I have the vaguest of memories when ESB hit the drive-in (specifically I remember the ad in the newspaper, we cut it out and put it in a scrap book). I bought all the toys, wore themed costumes for Halloween... it was easily the defining franchise of my youth. I was in a real downward trend in the mid-late 90s, and was so excited for the Special Editions. It honestly kept my going sometimes. Knowing that I'd be able to see Ep4 in the theater kept me going some days I felt I had little to look forward to. I loved them at the time, pre-ordered the VHS releases, and watched the crap out of those. When announcements that the prequels were being made, it was one of the most exciting bits of entertainment news I'd ever read in my life. I diligently followed everything up to the release of TPM, much to my detriment as I knew so much about it going in, there was no sense of wonder (well, also because the story was lacking any). I dialed it back some for AotC, and enjoyed that much more. For RotS, I didn't even watch any trailers, and enjoyed that experience as well. Fast-forward several years, and my life is so different for many reasons, and film just doesn't hold nearly as much interest in my life any longer. News of Eps 7-9 hits, and I barely care. I don't follow the production cycles at all, but I go see them in the theater. They are enjoyable, but that's about it.

So, quick first impression... I highly enjoyed Skywalker. Much more than TFA and TLJ. I largely forgot about those by the time I got home from the theater. I feel like watching Skywalker again tonight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on June 02, 2020, 09:50:23 PM
My 9 year old daughter has been asking about possibly watching Star Wars - some of her friends have been talking about it, and she feels left out. She wasn't sure if she was ready, as she is quite sensitive, but I reassured her that while there was fighting, it wasn't bloody or scary or sad (I'll send her for a refill of popcorn when Luke returns to the burned homestead). I said in the previous post the SW franchise was the most important and meaningful to me growing up, and I have looked forward to exposing her to the SW universe.

She was all on board. Then I started down the rabbit hole of how the "first one" is really Episode 4, (of 9) and that is where we are going to start, despite being out of chronological order. And we are going to watch the 2011(?) version because that is the one on Disney+ (since I don't own any version on DVD/BD), but it is different from the original 1977 version which I grew up with, and still different from the Special Edition released in 1997.

10 minutes later... I think she is still on board.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 03, 2020, 04:01:33 AM

She was all on board. Then I started down the rabbit hole of how the "first one" is really Episode 4, (of 9) and that is where we are going to start, despite being out of chronological order. And we are going to watch the 2011(?) version because that is the one on Disney+ (since I don't own any version on DVD/BD), but it is different from the original 1977 version which I grew up with, and still different from the Special Edition released in 1997.


That's a tough choice for sure. I am hoping that by the time any kid of mine is of age, that HD unaltered versions are available to buy because I would do so in a heartbeat.

From what's actually available, I don't even know where to start. I grew up on the 97 special editions so my normal isn't even the "original" originals, so that makes the whole thing even crazier  :lol

I have the 2006 dvds which came with the unaltered versions on a 2nd bonus disc, but are almost unwatchable. No remastering, standard definition, mono sound and not even widescreen  :P  so I doubt I would show them that, and most of the added stuff from the 97 special editions I actually like so I wouldn't mind showing them that, but that's probably as far as I would go with changes. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on June 03, 2020, 06:00:24 AM
I know I've spoken about them endlessly but the only way I watch the original trilogy is through the Despecialized editions. I don't mind most of the changes done in the  97 and subsequent reworkings but a few of those changes are really jarring and don't fit at all with the rest of the movie.

I've exposed my daughter since she was 2 yrs to the franchise and she knows about them quite a bit, she's 5 now and had a blast when we went to Hollywood studios and saw all the SW characters.


I've shown her clips of the movies and will probably watch them with her in a couple years.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 03, 2020, 07:33:08 AM
I know I've spoken about them endlessly but the only way I watch the original trilogy is through the Despecialized editions.

I've heard about them for years. I think its finally time I try and acquire them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on June 03, 2020, 09:09:50 AM
Chris, you might want to think about a modified machete order for the OT/PT (IV, V, I, II, III, VI, treating the OT as a flashback between V and VI).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on June 03, 2020, 09:59:19 AM
Chris, you might want to think about a modified machete order for the OT/PT (IV, V, I, II, III, VI, treating the OT as a flashback between V and VI).

That's... different. Is that a thing? Or an idea you came up with?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on June 03, 2020, 10:00:10 AM
Chris, you might want to think about a modified machete order for the OT/PT (IV, V, I, II, III, VI, treating the OT as a flashback between V and VI).

That's... different. Is that a thing? Or an idea you came up with?

It's a thing. I personally prefer my own version which is Episodes IV, V and VI and call it a day.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on June 03, 2020, 10:06:13 AM
I've never heard of that. I am not even sure I get the reasoning, other than do something different.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on June 03, 2020, 10:11:16 AM
I've never heard of that. I am not even sure I get the reasoning, other than do something different.

From a narrative point of view. You meet Vader and Luke and so forth in IV. In V you learn Vader is Luke's dad  :o and then do the prequels as a kind of way too long flashback to learn more about Vader after you already see the person he becomes, then back to VI with the full knowledge of who he is and his arc.

It's not how I'd watch it, but I get the logic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on June 03, 2020, 10:14:48 AM
Explained that way, it makes sense, though I still don't see any value in it.

Whenever my daughter is curious about movie she looks for trailers on YouTube. So we found original trailers from 1977. Trailers have come a long way since then, as has the film industry as a whole. But man, those trailers are awful.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on June 03, 2020, 11:17:45 AM
Yeah, what Adami said, plus the fact that at the time that order was proposed by fans, we only had the PT and OT, and I think most would agree that VI is a better "ending" to the saga than III if you ended with that.  VI feels climactic.  Seeing that, and then going back and doing I-III makes the ending feel kinda..."meh, the story was good, then then took a serious decline in quality over the last half."  And VI as an ending fits tonally with both the OT and PT, IMO, so it flows well from either V or III.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on June 03, 2020, 11:50:50 AM
Chris, you might want to think about a modified machete order for the OT/PT (IV, V, I, II, III, VI, treating the OT as a flashback between V and VI).

That's... different. Is that a thing? Or an idea you came up with?

It's a thing. I personally prefer my own version which is Episodes IV, V and IV and call it a day.

You are a smart, smart man.

I mean, you're a doctor, I think, so like... yeah. But that confirms it.  :lol :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on June 03, 2020, 02:12:39 PM
Since we don't have a "dammitkatt" emoticon...
:evilmonkey:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on June 03, 2020, 02:16:25 PM
The "Machete Order" (https://time.com/4784685/star-wars-machete-order-rogue-one-force-awakens/) is IV-V-II-III-VI, omitting Ep I completely and using II-III as the big flashback.  The modified Machete Order suggested by bosk includes Ep I, since the idea is to watch all of them.  I'm sure most would agree that if you're going with the Machete concept (which I like, but have never tried), then omitting Ep I is the way to go.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on June 03, 2020, 02:26:10 PM
Yeah, but his basic argument for leaving I out is basically:  "It sucks.  And you can skip it and legitimately not have lost ANY important plot details whatsoever and wan't be scratching your head in any later moments in the saga wondering 'when did THAT happen?'  Oh, and it sucks."  While he isn't wrong, there are still reasons to watch I.  Maul is a great character, even granting the "criminally underutilzed" argument.  And a lot of people seem to enjoy the pod race.  And Qi-Gon is at least in the discussion for top 3 jedi in the PT.  And now that we have VIII, the slavery arc also feels more contextual.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on June 03, 2020, 02:30:37 PM
That's how I watched it most recently, with my daughter (well, we still have Ep. 6 to go).  It really works.  Read that article that Orbert posted and it makes it a lot clearer. 

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on June 03, 2020, 02:54:21 PM
I like the Machete concept, but I also agree that Episode I is worth watching, especially if the idea is to watch them all anyway.  I was just clarifying that this isn't just something that bosk pulled out of his... um, brain.  The Machete Order is not new.

There are pros and cons to it.  There are heroes on both sides.  Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on June 03, 2020, 04:32:07 PM
I cannot get behind this idea at all, but I cannot articulate why. Maybe the differences in the film making techniques (70s models and miniatures, and 90s CGI) would be too jarring.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on June 03, 2020, 04:55:29 PM
I get what you are saying.  But if you haven't, at least read the article so you can see it articulated in great detail why it works, and then decide. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Kotowboy on June 03, 2020, 06:58:53 PM
I'm admittedly no Star Wars fan... but I didn't hate The Last Jedi or The Rise Of Skywalker.

I don't care about CANON so I just watched them individually on their own merits and - with TROS - I had a fun 2 hours watching a well crafted and acted science fiction adventure.

That said - I still stand by my claim that JJ Abrams Star Trek films are overall better than his Star Wars films. And that the Kelvin trilogy is far superior to both the Prequels

and the Sequels. Star Trek 2009 was great fun with just a few script issues but nothing obnoxious. Beyond was a really fun proper Star Trek film and Into Darkness really isn't the

absolute disaster everyone claims it is.

FURTHERMORE - If Disney ever decide to release Blu rays of the Theatrical Versions of the Original Trilogy ( remastered obvs ) - i'd probably get those just to have them.




EDIT : And finally I don't blame JJ *at all* for TROS. After Solo tanked and fans hated The Last Jedi - Kathleen Kennedy probably took JJ aside and told him to

make the Most Star Wars Star Wars that ever Star Warsed. On a tentpole movie that big - i'd be SHOCKED if Disney weren't doing uncredited re-writes left right and centre.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on June 04, 2020, 04:14:56 PM
I get what you are saying.  But if you haven't, at least read the article so you can see it articulated in great detail why it works, and then decide. 

I started to - it was too long to hold my interest, but I bookmarked it for later - and while I appreciate the effort the authors put in to it, I don't really want to put that much analysis in to it for myself. I also know those movies by heart (4-6 anyway) so I think that skews my perception as well. It would be interesting if I could have selective amnesia about the saga and then visit this idea with a fresh mind.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on June 07, 2020, 09:32:05 AM
Finally finished the new season of Clone Wars. Wow those last 4 episodes were some of the best Star Wars ever. Such a fantastic end to the series. Movie quality.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 07, 2020, 09:40:19 AM
Wow those last 4 episodes were some of the best Star Wars ever. Such a fantastic end to the series. Movie quality.

I completely agree.....they were incredible. I still can't get over the score alone.....much less the content.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on June 08, 2020, 07:36:25 AM
Wow those last 4 episodes were some of the best Star Wars ever. Such a fantastic end to the series. Movie quality.

I completely agree.....they were incredible. I still can't get over the score alone.....much less the content.

Great point on the score! Did a fantastic job at setting the tone and ramping up the tension.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on June 24, 2020, 11:29:06 AM
I went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole the other day and ended up reading about the sequels. There's actually a pretty well done article about the films and their backgrounds that I'd recommend to anyone who is curious (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sequel_trilogy). Some pieces of information that jumped out at me (if they are to be believed):

We can argue all day about which Star Wars movies are good or bad, but I think you'd be hard pressed to deny that their behind the scenes aren't fascinating.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 24, 2020, 02:49:05 PM
I went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole the other day and ended up reading about the sequels. There's actually a pretty well done article about the films and their backgrounds that I'd recommend to anyone who is curious (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sequel_trilogy). Some pieces of information that jumped out at me (if they are to be believed):
  • Return of the Jedi was a bit of a hodgepodge, kind of like Rise of Skywalker. Leia was made to be Luke's sister near the end of the writing process, and the Emperor was not originally slated to appear until Episode IX. I found this interesting because the sequels get a lot of flack for not being planned out properly, which I'm not disagreeing with, but the originals didn't always follow the project plan themselves.
  • Lucas was originally going to direct VII, and he was actually quite involved in sharing story outlines with Lucasfilm that he expected they would use. However, those things never came to fruition, obviously. I wonder what 7-9 would have looked like if they actually used the full outlines.
  • One of Lucas's ideas that actually made it into the sequels was Luke. It seems like this is one of the few examples where everyone involved was on the same page, including J.J. and Johnson, which is kind of funny because Luke is one of the most controversial aspects of the sequels.
  • "According to J. J. Abrams and Chris Terrio, the trilogy's core theme is about the new generation learning from the mistakes committed by the previous generation, akin to the children of the revolutionaries who fought in the War of 1812 years after their parents fought with George Washington in the American Revolutionary War."

We can argue all day about which Star Wars movies are good or bad, but I think you'd be hard pressed to deny that their behind the scenes aren't fascinating.


I mean.....the OT had 30+ years to build up 'lore' and be romanticized by the fans. The sequel series (and prequel for that matter) never stood a chance at matching the love the OT has earned. BUT.....if you sit and watch those movies and try to remove the nostalgia and sentiment from it and just watch them as a trilogy set of movies.....they're not all that great. But it's OK.....they're more than just movies and that's whats awesome about them. It's just, the criticism that the sequels in particular have received is a little silly IMO especially if the main argument is comparing them to the OT. I'll argue any and every day of the week (and have) that TLJ is the best actually SW Movie that has been made yet (R1 a close 2nd)  if you want to get down to the bare bones of it all.


All I know is that I've been please to hear the rumors about Disney and Lucasfilm and what's been going on the past few months with who has been relieved of their 'creative' power and who has been put in charge. I think this next wave of the SW universe.....with the clean slate and the people that they're having plan and build it.....is going to be pretty fun to watch.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on June 24, 2020, 03:48:10 PM
What rumors are you referring to?

Also, we started watching Resistance. Easily the worst of the animated shows. Just watched Episode 6 and it's finally getting interesting. We're going to finish the show since it's only 2 seasons but I'm already looking forward to it being done.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 24, 2020, 03:56:56 PM
What rumors are you referring to?

Kathleen Kennedy has basically been stripped of all creative power. Her decisions with the sequels were horrific and the Disney brass has basically put her in a corner and after the success and back to form nature of 'the Mandalorian'.....they've given most creative control to Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau, along with George Lucas to plan out this next phase of content (movies/TV/Comics)  They've also tapped Kevin Fiege to help map it all out ala the way he did with the Marvel universe.

This is all info. gleaned from articles and youtube posts as Disney isn't / doesn't do news releases or anything......but, there are so many article's and youtube posts that say these same things that it's a consensus it seems.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on June 24, 2020, 05:50:47 PM
Honestly, those rumors sound like a lot of wishful thinking to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 24, 2020, 06:21:48 PM
Honestly, those rumors sound like a lot of wishful thinking to me.

Could be. It’d certainly be the way to do it though if Disney was serious about SW. if they weren’t so prevalent online I’d dismiss them but they seem to be everywhere.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on June 24, 2020, 06:23:22 PM
I know the Kevin Feige one has been debunked.

He’s talked about producing a single Star Wars thing but not taking over the franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 24, 2020, 06:46:20 PM
I know the Kevin Feige one has been debunked.

He’s talked about producing a single Star Wars thing but not taking over the franchise.

I didn’t think he was taking over the franchise, but he’d be one of the ones who helped map out the next phase of content?

Honestly, as long as the Kathleen Kennedy rumor is true SW will be fine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on June 24, 2020, 09:13:21 PM
Kathleen Kennedy has basically been stripped of all creative power. Her decisions with the sequels were horrific and the Disney brass has basically put her in a corner....

What metrics are they using? I've said this here jokingly before, but it's a strange world when a film with a $275 million budget rakes in $1+ billion at the box office and it's considered a failure. I know there is much more going on in the SW universe than Eps 7-9, but from a purely financial aspect, imagine having your film make $1+ billion and your bosses say "yeah, you really don't have a clue what you are doing..." And I don't follow this stuff, but had no idea her control was that great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 24, 2020, 10:48:23 PM
Kathleen Kennedy has basically been stripped of all creative power. Her decisions with the sequels were horrific and the Disney brass has basically put her in a corner....

What metrics are they using? I've said this here jokingly before, but it's a strange world when a film with a $275 million budget rakes in $1+ billion at the box office and it's considered a failure. I know there is much more going on in the SW universe than Eps 7-9, but from a purely financial aspect, imagine having your film make $1+ billion and your bosses say "yeah, you really don't have a clue what you are doing..." And I don't follow this stuff, but had no idea her control was that great.

The haphazard method to producing three films with no real cohesion between them is the stinker. Monetarily, you or I could make a SW movie with the budget behind it and it’d make money. But there’s a large opinion out there that she micromanaged the shit out of the three movies and nixed many great ideas. From what I can glean I don’t think she’s very well liked inside Disney.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on June 24, 2020, 11:10:24 PM
I totally get it when viewed from the creative side. Sometimes it is more than the dollars and cents of a film when you are at the helm of a franchise like Star Wars. But regardless of box office, I thought the films were generally well-received, or at least not despised. And again I don't follow this, but I had no idea about her management style or any sense of dislike from her coworkers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zantera on June 25, 2020, 05:06:31 AM
I think Kennedy has really sunk Star Wars much like Titanic and I feel the biggest difference between the SWU and the MCU for example is the latter has Kevin Feige. Someone who oversees everything and has an idea of how to play things out and release individual puzzle pieces that work on their own but also when combined the whole picture is something great.

You can talk about how the movies haven't quite lived up to the hopes and expectations. In my own opinion Force Awakens is the only Disney SW movie I genuinely like and the rest has various different issues, but just setting aside my own opinions and looking at it a bit more neutrally, Last Jedi was very divisive among fans and you could argue Rise of Skywalker was even worse in that regard. The biggest issue whether you like the films or not was the lack of planning and it's just very clear when watching these films that Rian Johnson made choices in TLJ that went against what JJ had planned in TFA, and then when JJ came back for RoS you could tell by the choices made in that film. It's like a tag team challenge with people wanting completely different things.

Outside of how the movies went there's also been a ton of mistakes made behind the scenes. Solo having to switch director mid-filming. Rian Johnson getting a trilogy before TLJ and then having that pulled after a lot of the criticism towards TLJ. Then giving a trilogy to the GoT guys which also went away shortly after the enormous backlash to the last season of GoT. Kennedy is someone who in the past has been known for making the right calls and getting the right people into projects and now that track record looks pretty bad. You can have bad luck and you might have to make changes but in this case there's been way too many situations like that in a short amount of time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on June 26, 2020, 07:40:07 AM
Kathleen Kennedy has basically been stripped of all creative power. Her decisions with the sequels were horrific and the Disney brass has basically put her in a corner....

What metrics are they using? I've said this here jokingly before, but it's a strange world when a film with a $275 million budget rakes in $1+ billion at the box office and it's considered a failure. I know there is much more going on in the SW universe than Eps 7-9, but from a purely financial aspect, imagine having your film make $1+ billion and your bosses say "yeah, you really don't have a clue what you are doing..." And I don't follow this stuff, but had no idea her control was that great.

I think the idea is to make films that make a billion globally, and set up at least two films that do the same.  I'm a Star Wars fan boy - the first is one of my favorite films of all time, and I regularly watch the original three - but it's just so... diluted now.  I watched the Force Awakens and I was like, meh.    Han dying didn't help, but I could've gotten my arms around that.  I watched Rogue One and really liked it, but after the shit reviews of Solo, and the haphazard way they seemed to vascillate on Rey, I haven't seen either of the last two, nor the Mandalorian.   I will eventually, but there's no... BUZZ to me.   I want a film that seems "can't miss", and frankly, when most of the spoilers are about how they WALKED BACK that middle film, that doesn't scream WATCH ME, BITCHES!   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on June 26, 2020, 07:54:01 AM
Kathleen Kennedy has basically been stripped of all creative power. Her decisions with the sequels were horrific and the Disney brass has basically put her in a corner....

What metrics are they using? I've said this here jokingly before, but it's a strange world when a film with a $275 million budget rakes in $1+ billion at the box office and it's considered a failure. I know there is much more going on in the SW universe than Eps 7-9, but from a purely financial aspect, imagine having your film make $1+ billion and your bosses say "yeah, you really don't have a clue what you are doing..." And I don't follow this stuff, but had no idea her control was that great.

I think that's a good point of view, but not one shared by studios. It's missing the context they look for.

This wasn't Rogue One or Solo. This was the final Skywalker saga movie. Theoretically, they should've been able to film George Lucas reading the script on the toilet and make 2-3 billion dollars. This is pretty soon after the end of the Infinity Stone saga (one not nearly as deep in the culture lexicon) made almost 3 billion dollars.

So a Star Wars movie making $1+ billion on a $275 million budget is great, the final one in the Skywalker saga doing it isn't quite as impressive.

Keep in mind that Joker, Captain Marvel, Spider-Man: Far From Home, Iron Man 3, Incredibles 2, and Beauty of the Beast....among almost 30 other films made more money than it. I think that's why it's considered a disappointment.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on June 26, 2020, 08:06:29 AM
I think Kennedy has really sunk Star Wars much like Titanic and I feel the biggest difference between the SWU and the MCU for example is the latter has Kevin Feige. Someone who oversees everything and has an idea of how to play things out and release individual puzzle pieces that work on their own but also when combined the whole picture is something great.

You can talk about how the movies haven't quite lived up to the hopes and expectations. In my own opinion Force Awakens is the only Disney SW movie I genuinely like and the rest has various different issues, but just setting aside my own opinions and looking at it a bit more neutrally, Last Jedi was very divisive among fans and you could argue Rise of Skywalker was even worse in that regard. The biggest issue whether you like the films or not was the lack of planning and it's just very clear when watching these films that Rian Johnson made choices in TLJ that went against what JJ had planned in TFA, and then when JJ came back for RoS you could tell by the choices made in that film. It's like a tag team challenge with people wanting completely different things.

Outside of how the movies went there's also been a ton of mistakes made behind the scenes. Solo having to switch director mid-filming. Rian Johnson getting a trilogy before TLJ and then having that pulled after a lot of the criticism towards TLJ. Then giving a trilogy to the GoT guys which also went away shortly after the enormous backlash to the last season of GoT. Kennedy is someone who in the past has been known for making the right calls and getting the right people into projects and now that track record looks pretty bad. You can have bad luck and you might have to make changes but in this case there's been way too many situations like that in a short amount of time.

I think that this is a great summary, and I am pretty much on board. However, I would like to add one caveat: The Star Wars fan base. While Disney has failed spectacularly in many areas, I also think that they have a real dumpster fire on their hands when it comes to the audience. There is a unique combination of different age groups, different expectations, and wildly inconsistent outrage that is almost impossible to navigate. For example, there was a loud group of people that disliked VII because it was too similar to the old movies, and then an even louder group that disliked VIII because it was too dissimilar. Maybe I have become a pessimistic old fogey, but I often wonder whether the fine line is too fine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 26, 2020, 08:30:20 AM
I think that's why it's considered a disappointment.

What's disappointing as a fan is finding out after the fact that there was never a cohesive single vision mapped out for the three films. I know that Lucas back in the day didn't have or do that.....but there is literally no excuse for Disney not to have hired and have in place the right writers/directors etc etc for them to have sit down back in the beginning and have the whole sequel trilogy mapped out to where it was one vision.


That being said.....and for the 'complaining' I seem to be doing......I liked all three of the films. I just think they missed an opportunity to do something special.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on June 30, 2020, 12:26:39 PM
I think that's why it's considered a disappointment.

What's disappointing as a fan is finding out after the fact that there was never a cohesive single vision mapped out for the three films. I know that Lucas back in the day didn't have or do that.....but there is literally no excuse for Disney not to have hired and have in place the right writers/directors etc etc for them to have sit down back in the beginning and have the whole sequel trilogy mapped out to where it was one vision.


That being said.....and for the 'complaining' I seem to be doing......I liked all three of the films. I just think they missed an opportunity to do something special.
I pretty much completely agree with this post.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: eric42434224 on June 30, 2020, 01:26:20 PM
I think that's why it's considered a disappointment.

What's disappointing as a fan is finding out after the fact that there was never a cohesive single vision mapped out for the three films. I know that Lucas back in the day didn't have or do that.....but there is literally no excuse for Disney not to have hired and have in place the right writers/directors etc etc for them to have sit down back in the beginning and have the whole sequel trilogy mapped out to where it was one vision.


That being said.....and for the 'complaining' I seem to be doing......I liked all three of the films. I just think they missed an opportunity to do something special.
I pretty much completely agree with this post.

I agree with TOX....there is an element of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" with the fan base of this franchise.

I agree with GMD as well.  I enjoyed all the movies.  Had a lot of fun watching them.  But yes...a missed opportunity for something greater there was.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on July 01, 2020, 02:11:14 PM
I still feel that if they simply added a couple of extra minutes of details around the Emperor and his return in Rise of Skywalker that the film would have been significantly better. Maybe they plan on addressing that in a future show?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ErHaO on July 01, 2020, 03:43:53 PM
So perhaps some controversial opinions here:

Saw six episodes of The Mandolorian and... I thought episodes 4-6 were pretty bad? First 3 were ace though. Oddly enough I also feel the titular character feels incompetent way too many times. Like really almost every battle he gets shot, hit or caught of guard, only to be saved by something convenient in his surrounding or just his great armor. Dunno, sometimes it annoyed me a bit. I get the approach of making the hero struggle before winning but I don't really buy this guy being such a great mercenary at all.

And I watched Solo and... really enjoyed it? Well paced, some cool setpieces, decent set of characters and actually better fanservice than the latest trilogy (because this is a film about fan favourites, rather than cramming the fan favourites in there for no real reason).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on July 01, 2020, 05:43:40 PM
The last couple episodes of the Mandalorian were great. Yeah the middle ones weren't spectacular.

I also really enjoyed Solo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 01, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
My only issue with the Mandalorian was the episode lengths. I think/wish they should have been/be at least an hour.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 02, 2020, 08:29:35 AM
Solo was surprisingly good.  Not sure why it uncharacteristically dumbed things down by a magnitude of thousands during that brief moment where he got his last name.  But other than that brief moment of stupid, it was pretty good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on July 02, 2020, 09:11:35 AM
I've said it here before on multiple occasions, but I'll say it again. I am bummed that Solo did as poorly at the box office as it did. It deserved to do better. I'm sad we won't see the sequels that I'm sure were being planned.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on July 02, 2020, 09:32:05 PM
I started watching The Mandalorian, without really knowing anything about it. I was surprised how short the episodes were. I kinda like it as I usually have small pockets of time where I can watch TV.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 09, 2020, 10:34:22 PM
So, just finished Clone Wars. 

As a whole, this series is such a mess.  Sometimes, it is really good.  Other times, it is really bad.  But all in all, the good far outweighs the bad, and I enjoyed it.  And for the most part, seasons 6 and 7 were pretty good.  To push back a little bit on a couple of comments I have seen Gary make:

Season 7 is not "some of the best content in all of Star Wars."  Season 7 is kind of a microcosm of the entire show.  When it was good, it was really good.  Other times, it wasn't.  Or it just meandered.  And that's okay.  But what was cool is that season 7 tied up a LOT of different storylines in a pretty satisfying way.  And right at the end when it started to tie directly into events of Revenge of the Sith, it was probably the best content of the series

Ahsoka is not the best character.  ...or maybe she is, and that's just not saying a lot about the characters as a whole?  There were times when she was outright annoying, including in season 7.  But overall, she had a good story arc that ended on a pretty satisfying note. 

Some of my favorite arcs in the series were the stuff with Ventriss, Maul, and the late season 7 stuff.  Where I think the series missed opportunities though was with Anakin.  They definitely fleshed out the character more and planted more seeds of his turning.  But by the same token, given what they could have done with that, I think they missed a lot of opportunities. 

Anyhow, I give it a thumbs up overall.  Will probably check out rebels next, but not sure when.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 09, 2020, 11:03:44 PM
Yeah.....I think you and I Bosk will just have to respectfully disagree about some things with TCW's. I agree as a whole the series is far from perfect and there are too many filler and dud episodes....but.....


Season 7 is not "some of the best content in all of Star Wars."  Season 7 is kind of a microcosm of the entire show.  When it was good, it was really good.  Other times, it wasn't.  Or it just meandered.  And that's okay.  But what was cool is that season 7 tied up a LOT of different storylines in a pretty satisfying way.  And right at the end when it started to tie directly into events of Revenge of the Sith, it was probably the best content of the series

Outside of the 'sisters' story arc with Ahsoka S7 was pretty solid and I'll stick by 'some of the best content SW has to offer'. From the Score to the characters was far more interesting to me than any of the prequels (outside of the last half of ROTS)  The last (4) episodes alone were better than the first two and a half prequel films. The only downside to them is that you pretty much have to watch the whole series to truly appreciate those last four episodes where with the prequels you can just watch the films (and be bored out of your mind most of the time)


Ahsoka is not the best character.  ...or maybe she is, and that's just not saying a lot about the characters as a whole?  There were times when she was outright annoying, including in season 7.  But overall, she had a good story arc that ended on a pretty satisfying note. 

I'll debate all day long over Ahsoka's character......Entirely more developed and overall just a 'better' character than Rey for sure.....not to mention more skilled and better force weilder than her.......and next to Anakin and Obi Wan she's one of the 'main' three character's of the show.....her and Anakin being 'tied' almost and Obi Wan a close second. There's simply no way of watching where she started to where she ended and not realizing what a strong Jedi and character she is. There's really no denying her skill, power and wisdom and that she's one of the top Jedi that we've seen. You can try to make arguments against it....you can say that her character didn't personally connect with you.....but the fact remains that would put folks with that opinion in the very small minority....and that's ok....It's just not true  :biggrin:


Some of my favorite arcs in the series were the stuff with Ventriss, Maul, and the late season 7 stuff.  Where I think the series missed opportunities though was with Anakin.  They definitely fleshed out the character more and planted more seeds of his turning.  But by the same token, given what they could have done with that, I think they missed a lot of opportunities. 


Ventriss is a pretty awesome character.....and learning more about her according to cannon is interesting as well. Maul will always be one of the top characters also. His 'look' and power make him a really fun character. Plus, he can be likable which is hard to do with an 'evil' character. Interesting tid bit about Maul according to Filoni when there was a debate about who really 'won' the dual between he and Ahsoka.......if you notice.....in every Light Saber battle he's in he is clearly the most gifted and talented saber duelist. But the reason he loses almost all those battles is because of his over confidence. His overconfidence defeats him every time.


Not sure what opportunities you think they missed with Anakin? Way more developed and deep than the prequel Anakin. We got to see many different sides of him....watch him get manipulated by Palpatine for a long period of time....actually get to see him 'be' the near invincible Jedi Knight and fighter pilot that was alluded to in the OT. Sure, maybe there could be things that could have been added but I don't think they 'missed' anything. Nothing went unexplained.....they added more depth and dimension to a character that was just a fly by in the prequels. I said it before and will stick to it.....Clone War Anakain IS Anakin.....the prequel character was just a place holder. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Elite on July 11, 2020, 01:34:59 AM
I finally got around to watching The Rise of Skywalker last night. I thought it was quite fun and despite the film being out for months already, I'm surprised to say that I didn't see ANY spoilers whatsoever (this is mostly due to me avoiding spoilers as well though). There were a couple of really good moment and some that were a bit strange, but all in all I enjoyed it :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zantera on July 11, 2020, 05:12:37 AM
I finally got around to watching The Rise of Skywalker last night. I thought it was quite fun and despite the film being out for months already, I'm surprised to say that I didn't see ANY spoilers whatsoever (this is mostly due to me avoiding spoilers as well though). There were a couple of really good moment and some that were a bit strange, but all in all I enjoyed it :)

I feel like the buzz around that film disappeared really fast for a Star Wars movie. Compare it to Avengers End Game which was a big finale (though the universe will continue) which people were discussing for months, in comparison Rise of Skywalker seemed to be a weekend or two of people either going "yeah.. that was pretty bad" OR "i liked it!" but nothing super passionate in either the positive or negative way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Elite on July 11, 2020, 05:51:11 AM
I feel the worst part about the new trilogy is that the story really seems to not have been written beforehand. Apart from the main characters, the three films are so different from each other, that it almost feels as if they're not even part of the same story. New stuff gets introduced on the fly and some of it is frankly quite weird. That said, from an 'entertainment' perspective, the film did its job. I enjoyed it and I'm actually a bit sad that I didn't go watch it in the cinema, because I bet some scenes would have looked amazing on the big screen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zantera on July 11, 2020, 06:30:19 AM
I feel the worst part about the new trilogy is that the story really seems to not have been written beforehand. Apart from the main characters, the three films are so different from each other, that it almost feels as if they're not even part of the same story. New stuff gets introduced on the fly and some of it is frankly quite weird. That said, from an 'entertainment' perspective, the film did its job. I enjoyed it and I'm actually a bit sad that I didn't go watch it in the cinema, because I bet some scenes would have looked amazing on the big screen.

That's because they weren't really.. Rian Johnson was asked about The Last Jedi and if they had a "master plan" and he basically said no, he could do what he wanted. But then TLJ is a mixed bag reception-wise and they go back on a lot of decisions made in that film when JJ comes back for the final movie and he wants things his way. There's no way Palpatine returning was even on the table until Rian killed off Snoke randomly in TLJ and for RoS they all went "oh.. now what?". I did not like TLJ and for me, Rian Johnson ruined this trilogy (RoS wasn't that good but I think it was too late to save it anyways) but I would rather have taken a whole trilogy by the same director to at least get a complete vision. Or at the very least have a George Lucas-type who planned things out for 3 movies even if they are directed by different people. :p
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 11, 2020, 08:24:32 AM
I feel the worst part about the new trilogy is that the story really seems to not have been written beforehand. Apart from the main characters, the three films are so different from each other, that it almost feels as if they're not even part of the same story. New stuff gets introduced on the fly and some of it is frankly quite weird. That said, from an 'entertainment' perspective, the film did its job. I enjoyed it and I'm actually a bit sad that I didn't go watch it in the cinema, because I bet some scenes would have looked amazing on the big screen.

That's because they weren't really.. Rian Johnson was asked about The Last Jedi and if they had a "master plan" and he basically said no, he could do what he wanted. But then TLJ is a mixed bag reception-wise and they go back on a lot of decisions made in that film when JJ comes back for the final movie and he wants things his way. There's no way Palpatine returning was even on the table until Rian killed off Snoke randomly in TLJ and for RoS they all went "oh.. now what?". I did not like TLJ and for me, Rian Johnson ruined this trilogy (RoS wasn't that good but I think it was too late to save it anyways) but I would rather have taken a whole trilogy by the same director to at least get a complete vision. Or at the very least have a George Lucas-type who planned things out for 3 movies even if they are directed by different people. :p

Yeah. There was zero excuse not to have that trilogy mapped out before they started filming. Maybe not down to each actors dialogue but the milestones and major plot points in each film should have been planned out. They weren't......and we got what we got. I like the fact that Disney has realized this blunder and is making sure it won't happen again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on July 11, 2020, 02:27:31 PM
I agree 100% that the new trilogy should have been planned out better. At the same time, I think it's worth mentioning that perfect planning is not always necessary to make movies like these work (it obviously helps though... don't get me wrong). From what I understand, the original trilogy was not completely mapped out from the beginning, and some major plot points (the Emperor being in VI, Leia being Luke's sister) were decided upon fairly late.

In my opinion, the bigger issue was each director's lack of respect for what the other was trying to accomplish, to the point that some plot points kind of undid prior ones. The best example I can think of is Rey's lineage. The way I saw things in VIII was that Rey's parents were no one, which tied into a greater theme of anyone being able to accomplish great things regardless of their upbringing. In IX, Rey was revealed as a Palpatine, which was kind of devastating to Johnson's theme. It wasn't completely eradicated - Finn became force-sensitive despite coming from nothing, and the Resistance defeated the Emperor's fleet - but it had less impact, at least to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zantera on July 11, 2020, 02:53:47 PM
Rey's lineage and Snoke are the 2 major things that stand out as Rian/JJ clearly having very different ideas for. I would add Luke because he felt like a different character in TLJ and felt more like a return to his old self in RoS. And yeah I agree that sometimes it's good to wait and let a movie come out, see what works and what doesn't work and adjust the details - you don't need everything mapped out. However having a plan seems like a very logical thing. We're gonna build a house and to do so we need a foundation and we need to get the ground floor down before we work on the second level and then the roof. We don't have to decide the decoration of each room before we get this down but we need a structure planned so we can execute. :p

I hope the next trilogy is better planned out but I have a feeling it will be. :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Elite on July 11, 2020, 03:44:02 PM
What next trilogy though?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on July 11, 2020, 03:47:49 PM
What next trilogy though?

I'm guessing the Rian Johnson trilogy though there doesn't appear to be any word on it regarding its progress. There was supposed to be another trilogy by David & Dan - the Game of Thrones show creators but they backed out of that deal.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Zantera on July 11, 2020, 04:36:13 PM
What next trilogy though?

I guess the Rian Johnson and the GoT guys both had their trilogies scrapped but I think it's a fair assumption that Disney are looking either at a non-Skywalker trilogy (old republic or something like that) OR they already start thinking about Episode 10, 11 and 12 mostly because their trilogy didn't have that impact they were hoping for.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 11, 2020, 07:44:20 PM
What next trilogy though?

I guess the Rian Johnson and the GoT guys both had their trilogies scrapped but I think it's a fair assumption that Disney are looking either at a non-Skywalker trilogy (old republic or something like that) OR they already start thinking about Episode 10, 11 and 12 mostly because their trilogy didn't have that impact they were hoping for.

From what I’ve read online it’s supposed to be Old Republic related with Filoni and Favreau more or less with creative control over the over arcing story.

Whatever it is those two are in the fold now which is good news.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on July 11, 2020, 09:32:31 PM
What next trilogy though?

I guess the Rian Johnson and the GoT guys both had their trilogies scrapped but I think it's a fair assumption that Disney are looking either at a non-Skywalker trilogy (old republic or something like that) OR they already start thinking about Episode 10, 11 and 12 mostly because their trilogy didn't have that impact they were hoping for.

From what I’ve read online it’s supposed to be Old Republic related with Filoni and Favreau more or less with creative control over the over arcing story.

Whatever it is those two are in the fold now which is good news.


Has that been confirmed that they are making SW movies? Aren't they just involved in the Mandalorian? I think Kevin Fiege is overseeing a standalone SW movie, not sure about anything else.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on July 12, 2020, 07:21:33 AM
All that's been officially announced is a Kevin Fiege one-off movie and a Taika Waititi movie. Though I don't think the Rain Johnson trilogy is officially dead. I would be shocked if both of these films weren't being subtlety (or not so subtlety) set up for sequels if they are well received. I would love it if Star Wars took the approach of letting filmmakers have a long leash and making the film they want (while adhering to certain established laws within the Star Wars universe), then if they are a success, allowing them to do sequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on July 12, 2020, 08:17:25 AM
It's never smart trusting internet rumors, especially if it's about Star Wars.. :lol

All that's been officially announced is a Kevin Fiege one-off movie and a Taika Waititi movie. Though I don't think the Rain Johnson trilogy is officially dead. I would be shocked if both of these films weren't being subtlety (or not so subtlety) set up for sequels if they are well received. I would love it if Star Wars took the approach of letting filmmakers have a long leash and making the film they want (while adhering to certain established laws within the Star Wars universe), then if they are a success, allowing them to do sequels.

I have to agree with this as well. I would hate it, if Star Wars became just another calculated boardroom think tank product. There was some of that in TROS, but it nonetheless managed to tell a fairly engaging story. The more we get filmmakers doing the movies they feel passionate about, the better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on July 12, 2020, 08:57:03 AM
Rey's lineage and Snoke are the 2 major things that stand out as Rian/JJ clearly having very different ideas for. I would add Luke because he felt like a different character in TLJ and felt more like a return to his old self in RoS. And yeah I agree that sometimes it's good to wait and let a movie come out, see what works and what doesn't work and adjust the details - you don't need everything mapped out. However having a plan seems like a very logical thing. We're gonna build a house and to do so we need a foundation and we need to get the ground floor down before we work on the second level and then the roof. We don't have to decide the decoration of each room before we get this down but we need a structure planned so we can execute. :p

I hope the next trilogy is better planned out but I have a feeling it will be. :)

Agreed on Rey and Snoke. Interestingly, I believe that Luke was one of the few plot points where Lucas, J.J., and Johnson were at least on the same page. Maybe not on the same paragraph or the same word, but at least vaguely on the same page. Kylo Ren seems to be another one where everyone was in lockstep, but I'm just speculating now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on July 12, 2020, 10:45:16 AM
All that's been officially announced is a Kevin Fiege one-off movie and a Taika Waititi movie.


Forgot about the Waititi movie, though I'm thinking that's still some time away. As of now it looks risky to commit to a trilogy, like people have said I wouldn't be surprised if internally the exec team were expecting a much bigger box office response for the last 2 SW movies (Solo + TROS).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 12, 2020, 11:39:16 AM
All that's been officially announced is a Kevin Fiege one-off movie and a Taika Waititi movie. Though I don't think the Rain Johnson trilogy is officially dead. I would be shocked if both of these films weren't being subtlety (or not so subtlety) set up for sequels if they are well received. I would love it if Star Wars took the approach of letting filmmakers have a long leash and making the film they want (while adhering to certain established laws within the Star Wars universe), then if they are a success, allowing them to do sequels.

I agree....and, I thought that of the three sequels that TLJ was actually the best overall movie. It threw a wrench in the over arcing story and didn't appear to be in line with any of the things that JJ set up....but.....I thought Johnson made a really good movie and would be comfortable with him doing a trilogy of his own.

It's never smart trusting internet rumors, especially if it's about Star Wars.. :lol

True. The Filoni/Favreau stuff 'could' be completely false but there is just SO much talk of it out there it seems legit. And, with the success of The Mandalorian and the fact that Filoni is a George Lucas disciple and a wikipedia of SW legend and lore.....I can't see how Disney would shut them out of future projects. They HAVE to see what a train wreck..non talent, coat tail rider Kathleen Kennedy is and not allow her to ruin SW any further. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on July 12, 2020, 11:58:44 AM
I had to Google the name Taika Waititi to see what Star Wars character that is, as it wasn't familiar to me. Clearly, as it is an actual person. But is there a person out there with a more Star Wars name than that?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on July 12, 2020, 08:29:37 PM
Taika Waititi is a name I've only become familiar with in the past few years, but during that short time, he's been involved with a bunch of stuff that I like.  If he was somehow involved in new Star Wars movies, I can only see that as a good thing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on July 12, 2020, 08:38:25 PM
I discovered Taika when I first saw What we do in the Shadows and that movie is a riot. One of the funniest movies I've seen. From there I watched whatever I could, the guy is immensely talented and has my kind of comedic chops.

His presence (both character and directing) in The Mandalorian was great.

If anyone hasn't seen it yet you should definitely watch his movie The Hunt for the Wilderpeople.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on July 13, 2020, 11:23:22 AM
Star Wars: The Bad Batch animated series coming to Disney+ in 2021.

"The series follows the elite and experimental clones of the Bad Batch (first introduced in The Clone Wars) as they find their way in a rapidly changing galaxy in the immediate aftermath of the Clone War. Members of Bad Batch — a unique squad of clones who vary genetically from their brothers in the Clone Army — each possess a singular exceptional skill, which makes them extraordinarily effective soldiers and a formidable crew. In the post-Clone War era, they will take on daring mercenary missions as they struggle to stay afloat and find new purpose."

https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-bad-batch-series-announce
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 13, 2020, 11:29:36 AM
Interesting.  Their arc in the series was pretty entertaining, so I think the seeds are there for a good story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on July 13, 2020, 11:58:29 AM
Interesting.  Their arc in the series was pretty entertaining, so I think the seeds are there for a good story.
For me it's kind of a "meh" response. I'll watch it if I still have Disney+ when it comes out, but it's unlikely I would get Disney+ just for this.

I would have preferred the next animated series was completely unrelated to any existing Star Wars movie or show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 13, 2020, 03:26:04 PM
I would have preferred the next animated series was completely unrelated to any existing Star Wars movie or show.

I would love to see a Vadar-centric series that pics up immediately after Order 66 that spans the years in between ROTS and ANH when Vadar 'earns' and creates his reputation as the Powerful and sinister Sith he is........done in the animation style of S7 of The Clone Wars.


But, I'll watch the Bad Batch series......not sure how long that could go on but it'd be full of action I'm sure.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 13, 2020, 04:04:10 PM
I would love to see a Vadar-centric series that pics up immediately after Order 66 that spans the years in between ROTS and ANH when Vadar 'earns' and creates his reputation as the Powerful and sinister Sith he is........done in the animation style of S7 of The Clone Wars.

I'd love to see that, if it was done right.  But honestly, Clone Wars should have done a better job of setting all that up, and didn't.  I mean, it nailed the "powerful" side.  But the seeds of "sinister" weren't really all that present, other than him getting angry at times.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 13, 2020, 05:40:22 PM
I would love to see a Vadar-centric series that pics up immediately after Order 66 that spans the years in between ROTS and ANH when Vadar 'earns' and creates his reputation as the Powerful and sinister Sith he is........done in the animation style of S7 of The Clone Wars.

I'd love to see that, if it was done right.  But honestly, Clone Wars should have done a better job of setting all that up, and didn't.  I mean, it nailed the "powerful" side.  But the seeds of "sinister" weren't really all that present, other than him getting angry at times.

Yeah.....There were a few moments when Anakin murdered in cold blood outside of the 'Jedi Way' when he would lose it a bit.....but, I think Filoni and Co. wanted to respect what Lucas did with the prequels in the aspect of them not really showing too much of what we already saw in the prequels there towards the end of TCW's. Like with Order 66.......I know my brother was expecting TCW's to show more of it and not really just leave it focused on Ahsoka and Rex......he thought they'd give us more of the other Jedi that survived and more of Anakin as Vadar. I just don't think it'd have worked.



Now in Rebels they do show more of the initial years of Vadar and show us that aura and power that was always implied in the OT. It's cool to see
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on July 14, 2020, 10:22:14 AM
I like that idea, eventually. I think they should give any Skywalker characters a break for several years.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 14, 2020, 11:54:33 AM
I would love to see a Vadar-centric series that pics up immediately after Order 66 that spans the years in between ROTS and ANH when Vadar 'earns' and creates his reputation as the Powerful and sinister Sith he is........done in the animation style of S7 of The Clone Wars.

I'd love to see that, if it was done right.  But honestly, Clone Wars should have done a better job of setting all that up, and didn't.  I mean, it nailed the "powerful" side.  But the seeds of "sinister" weren't really all that present, other than him getting angry at times.

Yeah.....There were a few moments when Anakin murdered in cold blood outside of the 'Jedi Way' when he would lose it a bit.....but, I think Filoni and Co. wanted to respect what Lucas did with the prequels in the aspect of them not really showing too much of what we already saw in the prequels there towards the end of TCW's. Like with Order 66.......I know my brother was expecting TCW's to show more of it and not really just leave it focused on Ahsoka and Rex......he thought they'd give us more of the other Jedi that survived and more of Anakin as Vadar. I just don't think it'd have worked.

Now in Rebels they do show more of the initial years of Vadar and show us that aura and power that was always implied in the OT. It's cool to see

I liked that focus on Ahsoka and Rex.  It felt intimate and personal.  And where Ahsoka and Rex were internally at that point was set up nicely.  Overall, I thought that final arc was set up pretty nicely.  In a way, it was a bit odd to have Anakin completely absent.  But it also made sense, and I respect the artistic vision there.  I'm just saying that, with him, I wish they would have done more throughout the entire arc of the show to set up his vulnerability to Palpatine and his fall to the dark side.  It was there.  They didn't completely abandon it.  But for as much time as they had over 7 seasons, I expected more.  That's my minor beef with the series as a whole.  But it's fine.  Unfortunately, Lucas left that underbaked in the live action prequels.  So it just is what it is.  Hard to go back and fix that after the fact. 

As far as the tiny print, that's good to know.  Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on July 24, 2020, 05:42:59 AM
One thing I hope is explained in the next season of The Mandelorian is why Din can't remove his helmet, but virtually every Mandelorian we meet in the Clone Wars or Rebels series take of their helmets all the time. Is it just his particular sect that doesn't remove their helmets?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: YtseJam on July 26, 2020, 08:05:34 AM
Because Coronavirus and doctor fauci said not to take it off
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on July 28, 2020, 06:01:08 AM
Just finished watching through the Rebels series. I loved the ending. Clearly set up to pick up again at some point, maybe a live action Disney+ series? Overall I though the quality of Rebels averaged higher than The Clone Wars. The lows weren't as low and the highs about the same. On to Resistance now!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 28, 2020, 08:32:22 AM
Just finished watching through the Rebels series. I loved the ending. Clearly set up to pick up again at some point, maybe a live action Disney+ series? Overall I though the quality of Rebels averaged higher than The Clone Wars. The lows weren't as low and the highs about the same. On to Resistance now!

Yeah....I agree about the lows weren’t as low with the Rebels. Really fun series and the ending was clearly intended to lead to future opportunity’s.


Which makes sense as I’ve read that:

There has been casting calls for actors who fit the description(s) of Ezra, Thrawn and Sabine. Seems to indicate they’re probably going to be cast for the Ahsoka stand alone series. Which would fall in line with the last few scenes of Rebels.


Haven’t watched Resistance and probably won’t. I can’t get past the animation style. It’s too childish and ‘simple’ for me to really engage.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on July 28, 2020, 03:36:07 PM
To your small font stuff, that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on August 01, 2020, 09:46:34 PM
I finally watched all the bonus material on The Rise of Skywalker. I have to say the amount of work at every level in these massive budget movies continues to astound me. The set construction, the technology, the infrastructure, the amount of planning, and on and on.... Each frame of the movie ends up costing millions of dollars to create and there is tremendous passion, hard work and love that goes into making them. I imagine it's a miracle anytime a movie is able to come together at all. I know these are professionals

That said the main 2 hour documentary "Skywalker Legacy" is a fantastic feature and has some old school behind the scenes from the OT that I don't believe I've seen before.
There is another short feature with Warwick Davis and his son which is a gem to see. They again show archive footage from ROTJ with him as Wicket the Ewok and it comes full when Wicket is there with his son both real and character. It was heartwarming to see that part.

Flaws, warts, issues and all I still enjoyed this new trilogy and while it didn't stick the landing as I would have hoped for, I'm still very content with it and a fun rewatch from time to time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 02, 2020, 12:01:03 AM

Flaws, warts, issues and all I still enjoyed this new trilogy and while it didn't stick the landing as I would have hoped for, I'm still very content with it and a fun rewatch from time to time.

Totally agree.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on August 02, 2020, 03:48:04 PM
I finally watched all the bonus material on The Rise of Skywalker. I have to say the amount of work at every level in these massive budget movies continues to astound me. The set construction, the technology, the infrastructure, the amount of planning, and on and on....

There is a doc on the RotS DVD that shows everything that went in to making a scene, even covering a bunch of back office stuff like accounting, and things you'd never think of like catering. Forget about actually filming a movie of this size and scope, just making sure the cast and crew gets paid and fed sounds like a daunting task.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 02, 2020, 04:49:52 PM

There is a doc on the RotS DVD that shows everything that went in to making a scene, even covering a bunch of back office stuff like accounting, and things you'd never think of like catering. Forget about actually filming a movie of this size and scope, just making sure the cast and crew gets paid and fed sounds like a daunting task.

So true, and that's what made me run screaming away from Film school. The mental amount of preparation, logistics and headaches that went into making just a simple 5 minute film was enough to blow my mind. So props to anyone that has to deal with making a feature film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on August 02, 2020, 06:50:58 PM

I finally watched all the bonus material on The Rise of Skywalker. I have to say the amount of work at every level in these massive budget movies continues to astound me. The set construction, the technology, the infrastructure, the amount of planning, and on and on....

There is a doc on the RotS DVD that shows everything that went in to making a scene, even covering a bunch of back office stuff like accounting, and things you'd never think of like catering. Forget about actually filming a movie of this size and scope, just making sure the cast and crew gets paid and fed sounds like a daunting task.


That sounds very interesting. Going to have to see if it's on the bluray set that came out a while back. With every new disc release they seem to remove/add features so if it's on DVD it might not be on Blu-ray and vice versa. I hate it when they do that. The first OT DVD set that came out had that amazing documentary "Empire of Dreams" and the bluray set didn't include that. So I held on to my DVDs for that purpose.


And checked that several of the DVD extras didn't port over to the bluray boxset.


Looks like I'm upgrading to the Skywalker Saga 4k Box set lol.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on August 03, 2020, 12:23:56 AM
That sounds very interesting. Going to have to see if it's on the bluray set that came out a while back. With every new disc release they seem to remove/add features so if it's on DVD it might not be on Blu-ray and vice versa. I hate it when they do that.

Good lord. I grew up with a couple copies of Eps 4-6 on VHS, then got the Special Eds on VHS, skipped Ep 1 but got 2 and 3 on DVD. At that point I gave up trying to keep track of all subsequent home video versions and releases, and never cared to procure any of them*. I thought the extra material on the 2 and 3 DVD releases were quite enjoyable and well-presented. And if Empire of Dreams is the documentary I am thinking of, that one was a treat as well.

*Except for Rogue One, which I received as a gift.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: PetFish on August 04, 2020, 11:18:09 PM
I have to say the amount of work at every level in these massive budget movies continues to astound me. T

Totally.  Mad respect to all the effort that goes into movies.

It's just too bad all of that passion and commitment can get wasted with a lousy story or poor acting or whatever.  What *should* be the simplest part can totally derail an entire movie/franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on August 04, 2020, 11:43:33 PM
Absolutely, it really needs highly visionary filmmakers to make it work out in the end and not let the scale of the project overwhelm them. Take Peter Jackson for example, truly ground breaking stuff with LOTR and made it work very well. That didn't fully pan out for the Hobbit for several reasons..

That said, I'm now watching the making of The Mandalorian and that is another fascinating series. Why aren't Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau overlooking the movies or everything Star Wars related?!

Such amazing creative forces who are walking encyclopedias of SW lore. I can't wait to see what they have in store for Season 2 and now I immediately want to go and watch Clone Wars and Rebels.

The technology room they called the "Volume" is a fantastic amalgamation of available technology esp video game engines.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on August 05, 2020, 04:53:26 AM
Yeah, I think Dave Filoni would be a great head creative person for all things Star Wars going forward. Jon Favreau likely has too much else going on to take that type of role.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 05, 2020, 07:45:24 AM
Yeah, I think Dave Filoni would be a great head creative person for all things Star Wars going forward. Jon Favreau likely has too much else going on to take that type of role.

Filoni is a Lucas disciple. If you notice he always mentions and references ‘George’ and the conversations they’ve had. He knows every small detail and nuance about SW and actually cares about the story that’s being told and the characters.

Favreau isn’t as knowledgeable about SW but he knows how to make really good movies utilizing all technologies and how to develop characters and storylines that can span multiple movies.

The two of them together are a great team for SW.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on August 05, 2020, 08:07:03 AM
Yeah, I think Dave Filoni would be a great head creative person for all things Star Wars going forward. Jon Favreau likely has too much else going on to take that type of role.

Filoni is a Lucas disciple. If you notice he always mentions and references ‘George’ and the conversations they’ve had. He knows every small detail and nuance about SW and actually cares about the story that’s being told and the characters.

Favreau isn’t as knowledgeable about SW but he knows how to make really good movies utilizing all technologies and how to develop characters and storylines that can span multiple movies.

The two of them together are a great team for SW.
I completely agree. I would love to see those two shape the focus of Star Wars movies and TV for the next decade.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives this October
Post by: MinistroRaven on September 02, 2020, 08:53:25 AM
https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/2/21418275/mandalorian-season-two-premiere-date-teaser-trailer-baby-yoda

 :metal
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives October 30th, 2020
Post by: soupytwist on September 03, 2020, 03:39:04 AM
Hope they are a bit more ambitious this time.  It looked great, the music was great and those drawn stills across this closing credits were lush.....however the writing on the stories was so basic and predictable (Oh look Mando has been betrayed yet again...) it really failed to engage.   Also didn't help Mando had literal plot armour!!
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives October 30th, 2020
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 03, 2020, 01:31:44 PM
Hope they are a bit more ambitious this time.  It looked great, the music was great and those drawn stills across this closing credits were lush.....however the writing on the stories was so basic and predictable (Oh look Mando has been betrayed yet again...) it really failed to engage.   Also didn't help Mando had literal plot armour!!

While I agree that the stories weren't exactly 'Inception' or 'GodFather' level writing......I think the reason the series worked so well is because they didn't get into the weeds trying to inundate us with a complicated story. I like the 'crisis of conscious' that Mando has concerning the 'child' and subsequent predictable yet entertaining issues he faced because of his choice to save the child. As far as the literal plot armor.....at least the lore and reputation of the beskar armor the Mandalorian's has been documented and is a known entity.....it's not like they just made it up to fit the series. That's the cool part....Mando is such a skilled, successful and renowned bounty hunter he is fully encased in a very expensive armor. I don't see that as them using his armor as plot armor.....they use it to make a point.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives October 30th, 2020
Post by: soupytwist on September 04, 2020, 01:14:59 AM

While I agree that the stories weren't exactly 'Inception' or 'GodFather' level writing......

It's are barely Star Gate  ;D

That's the cool part....Mando is such a skilled, successful and renowned bounty hunter he is fully encased in a very expensive armor. I don't see that as them using his armor as plot armor.....they use it to make a point.

We pretty much see none of this though, he basically gets betrayed over and over, he gets shot and loses pretty much all his fights.   He survives because of the armour or baby Yoda saving him.   I don't see a skilled fighter or master tactician - I see Mr Bean in armour!
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives October 30th, 2020
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 04, 2020, 11:48:19 AM
We pretty much see none of this though, he basically gets betrayed over and over, he gets shot and loses pretty much all his fights.   He survives because of the armour or baby Yoda saving him.   I don't see a skilled fighter or master tactician - I see Mr Bean in armour!


First off he has no control over who betrays him....and, when he does get betrayed it's not like it's a 'shock' to him. He's planned on it and expected it.

Loses all his fights? He made it through the stronghold to find the 'child'. He raided an imperial compound to save the 'child' and survived. He escaped the city when everyone was out to get him. He owned the Prison raid from taking out the guards to capturing those that 'betrayed' him alive. He defended and survived the attack on the village. I mean, sure....his armor took some hits but THATS THE POINT of owning beskar armor. you can factor that in to your tactics.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 08, 2020, 10:43:10 AM
So I read something last night that someone posted about their 'issue' with Rey in the last trilogy.....and it illuminated the underlying detachment I personally faced that just didn't allow me to embrace Rey as a character.

I don't recall verbatim but the gist of it went, with Luke....we are shown his vulnerabilities and that he 'needs' help from others. He needed Obi Wan and then Han Solo to help get him off of Tattooine and then Obi Wan to train him.......He needed Han Solo's help when he was in the trench of the Death Star....then again of Hoth.....he needed Leiah's help when he called out to her after he had fallen down the garbage chute.....we were constantly shown that while he is strong and admirable and has heroic qualities....he is still human and needs the help of others to succeed. By ROTJ he's put in his time and 'earned' his status as a Jedi not only through assumed actions that he took between films but it's earned in the minds of the viewer because of how relatable and honest his character development was.

Then there's Rey who immediately is shown to be a trained fighter against the troopers chasing her and Finn.....gets upset at the thought of Finn wanting to help her.....she's immediately a world class pilot capable of flying a ship that needs two pilots on her own. She seeks out Luke not necessarily for training but to get him to come back...then abandons the training.....she escapes imprisonment on her own and then cannot be beaten by a far superior and more well trained Kylo Ren......then by the third film she's deemed the best pilot in the resistance (even better than Poe?) and is capable of healing people? Oh and she defeats the sith lord of all sith lords who it was pretty much implied that only Vadar could do....which he did.

Her power and achievements do not feel 'earned' and/or honest. There's no substance to help persuade and convince the audience that she deserves to be this all powerful Jedi other than a few lines of dialogue and an external 'girl power' movement culturally. While I enjoyed the sequel trilogy it wasn't until I read that last night that it really dawned on me that is why I never really connected with Rey or bought in to her being the character Disney so badly wanted her to be. They took the easy way out. It's also the reason why my devotion to Ahsoka's character is so strong because the leg work is there for her development...it's more believable and honest than anything they did with Rey.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 08, 2020, 03:44:04 PM
"Every word in that sentence was wrong."

~Luke Skywalker
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 08, 2020, 03:46:53 PM
Every character in the new trilogy sucks dong except Kylo Ren. Rey especially sucks and Gary's spot on and he's absolutely not wrong, let alone 'every word'. I also love John Boyega's honest assessment of his character in the films. Completely wasted and used for nothing more than a marketing ploy in the end to diversify the cast.

I hope they do The Old Republic for their next set of movies and actually do Star Wars justice for once but I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 08, 2020, 04:38:50 PM
"Every word in that sentence was wrong."

~Luke Skywalker

That’s an opinion as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ronnibran on September 08, 2020, 07:19:55 PM
So I read something last night that someone posted about their 'issue' with Rey in the last trilogy.....and it illuminated the underlying detachment I personally faced that just didn't allow me to embrace Rey as a character.

I don't recall verbatim but the gist of it went, with Luke....we are shown his vulnerabilities and that he 'needs' help from others. He needed Obi Wan and then Han Solo to help get him off of Tattooine and then Obi Wan to train him.......He needed Han Solo's help when he was in the trench of the Death Star....then again of Hoth.....he needed Leiah's help when he called out to her after he had fallen down the garbage chute.....we were constantly shown that while he is strong and admirable and has heroic qualities....he is still human and needs the help of others to succeed. By ROTJ he's put in his time and 'earned' his status as a Jedi not only through assumed actions that he took between films but it's earned in the minds of the viewer because of how relatable and honest his character development was.

Then there's Rey who immediately is shown to be a trained fighter against the troopers chasing her and Finn.....gets upset at the thought of Finn wanting to help her.....she's immediately a world class pilot capable of flying a ship that needs two pilots on her own. She seeks out Luke not necessarily for training but to get him to come back...then abandons the training.....she escapes imprisonment on her own and then cannot be beaten by a far superior and more well trained Kylo Ren......then by the third film she's deemed the best pilot in the resistance (even better than Poe?) and is capable of healing people? Oh and she defeats the sith lord of all sith lords who it was pretty much implied that only Vadar could do....which he did.

Her power and achievements do not feel 'earned' and/or honest. There's no substance to help persuade and convince the audience that she deserves to be this all powerful Jedi other than a few lines of dialogue and an external 'girl power' movement culturally. While I enjoyed the sequel trilogy it wasn't until I read that last night that it really dawned on me that is why I never really connected with Rey or bought in to her being the character Disney so badly wanted her to be. They took the easy way out. It's also the reason why my devotion to Ahsoka's character is so strong because the leg work is there for her development...it's more believable and honest than anything they did with Rey.

I agree with this summary pretty much in whole.  The sequels (especially Rise of Skywalker) though have way more problems than just this.  I was enjoying the sequel trilogy (despite not liking the direction of The Last Jedi) but TROS really killed my enthusiasm for the trilogy. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: soupytwist on September 09, 2020, 05:18:07 AM
I mean the latest Trilogy isn't without it's issues, and certainly made some weird decisions plot wise......but i'd still take them over the prequels - Menace and Clones are awful movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on September 09, 2020, 08:00:58 AM
It should tell me something (but I'm not listening!) that I'm a Star Wars fan-atic, and still haven't seen Solo, The Last Jedi, and the Rise of Skylwalker.   I actually LIKED the Force Awakens as a movie, but there are so many problems with it in the context of a trilogy that I'm struggling to generate interest.  Now with Disney+ I'll inevitably watch them, but...

The things that more or less sucked the life out of the trilogy for me:
- Han dying;
- Han and Leia doing the "divorced parents" thing;
- Rey;

I'm sort of interested in Kylo's story, and I want to catch up on Luke, but the whole "is she or isn't she?" thing was so badly handled from what I've seen so far (to the extent I can, I agree with what Gary's post said).   

I don't know.  I'm all in knots.  I have pledged to finish the Marvel Universe arc (I'm on Iron Man 2  ;)) and I want to watch the Bond films again...   I don't know where the Star Wars universe fits in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on September 09, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
So apparently, according to Daisy, the idea of her being a Palpatine was extremely last minute and they never knew til then who she was supposed to be.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 09, 2020, 08:28:15 AM
I mean the latest Trilogy isn't without it's issues, and certainly made some weird decisions plot wise......but i'd still take them over the prequels - Menace and Clones are awful movies.

Same here. But like I said, I really liked the sequel trilogy.....it was a fun trilogy and visually stunning. But outside of Kylo Ren there isn't another character that had any type of real growth or journey or that I felt any sort of 'connection' with.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 09, 2020, 08:56:25 AM
So apparently, according to Daisy, the idea of her being a Palpatine was extremely last minute and they never knew til then who she was supposed to be.

Wow big shock, it was a slapdash decision that makes absolutely no sense! I can't believe it! :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on September 09, 2020, 02:31:25 PM
That just goes to show yet again that the sequel trilogy's biggest problem was lack of a unified vision and lack of a plan for the overarching plot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 09, 2020, 02:33:45 PM
The thing that kills me is that the reason given is to show that "anyone can be anything no matter where they come from." Which is fine... if it made sense, or didn't take a hot wet dump on the Skywalker story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Elite on September 09, 2020, 02:50:00 PM
That just goes to show yet again that the sequel trilogy's biggest problem was lack of a unified vision and lack of a plan for the overarching plot.

Considering Star Wars is one of the largest and best known franchises in the world, the fact that there WAS NO overarching plot idea is absolutely insane to think about. Plan things in advance, FFS.  Yet here we are.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on September 09, 2020, 02:54:20 PM
The thing that kills me is that the reason given is to show that "anyone can be anything no matter where they come from." Which is fine... if it made sense, or didn't take a hot wet dump on the Skywalker story.

Fine, I guess, and I'm usually on board with that notion as a general sense, but I'm not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations.  I'm more in tune with the more classic Joseph Campbell mythology of the hero.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 09, 2020, 03:07:37 PM
The thing that kills me is that the reason given is to show that "anyone can be anything no matter where they come from." Which is fine... if it made sense, or didn't take a hot wet dump on the Skywalker story.

Fine, I guess, and I'm usually on board with that notion as a general sense, but I'm not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations.  I'm more in tune with the more classic Joseph Campbell mythology of the hero.

I don't get the Joseph Campbell reference (that's my own fault, I know he's relevant to the Star Wars thematic discussion), but I too am not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations. Rey being a Palpatine is already a stupid thing to run with, but then to have her take the Skywalker name of her own volition? After they've all died? And she's a Palpatine by blood? Bruh. The Skywalker Saga was fine after 6 movies - for it to end with all the Skywalkers dead and then a Palpatine choosing to take the name, and being some kind of ultimate Jedi, I dunno man. It doesn't make sense other than 'hooray feel good ending' to me. But I'll leave it there cause I'll never not be salty about this awful trilogy. :P
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on September 09, 2020, 03:17:45 PM
Rogue One is still a great movie, though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on September 09, 2020, 03:42:28 PM
The thing that kills me is that the reason given is to show that "anyone can be anything no matter where they come from." Which is fine... if it made sense, or didn't take a hot wet dump on the Skywalker story.

Fine, I guess, and I'm usually on board with that notion as a general sense, but I'm not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations.  I'm more in tune with the more classic Joseph Campbell mythology of the hero.

I don't get the Joseph Campbell reference (that's my own fault, I know he's relevant to the Star Wars thematic discussion), but I too am not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations. Rey being a Palpatine is already a stupid thing to run with, but then to have her take the Skywalker name of her own volition? After they've all died? And she's a Palpatine by blood? Bruh. The Skywalker Saga was fine after 6 movies - for it to end with all the Skywalkers dead and then a Palpatine choosing to take the name, and being some kind of ultimate Jedi, I dunno man. It doesn't make sense other than 'hooray feel good ending' to me. But I'll leave it there cause I'll never not be salty about this awful trilogy. :P

Joseph Campbell is - was - a professor and author that wrote extensively on the mythology of the hero.  His most famous book is "The Hero With A Thousand Faces", which basically walked through the similarities and the symbology of the various heroes throughout history. It was the introduction of the concept of "comparative mythology".   George Lucas actually named Campbell as an influence on the original trilogy. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Polarbear on September 10, 2020, 03:33:47 AM
I mean the latest Trilogy isn't without it's issues, and certainly made some weird decisions plot wise......but i'd still take them over the prequels - Menace and Clones are awful movies.

Same here. But like I said, I really liked the sequel trilogy.....it was a fun trilogy and visually stunning. But outside of Kylo Ren there isn't another character that had any type of real growth or journey or that I felt any sort of 'connection' with.

Agreed! Kylo Ren was easily the standout character of this trilogy, and the one that actually got a complete character arc throughout the three films.

And yes, Menace and Clones are not only the worst SW movies, they are also some of the worst films I've ever seen.

That just goes to show yet again that the sequel trilogy's biggest problem was lack of a unified vision and lack of a plan for the overarching plot.

That much is very apparent, yes!

Like I said, I enjoyed the sequel trilogy but it could have been much better, if some things would have been planned in advance.

I wonder if they could shake the Lucasfilm leadership, and put some lore nerd like Filoni in charge of the creative decisions. Have KK be in charge of the financial side of things, and Filoni make the decisions regarding the future shows and movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on September 10, 2020, 06:38:06 AM
From what I read, they kinda wanted to emulate George when he did the original trilogy and didn't have a whole set plan when doing a trilogy. Plus JJ never intended to be around for the next two movies so he just started things and passed on to the next set of people.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 10, 2020, 08:07:58 AM
I wonder if they could shake the Lucasfilm leadership, and put some lore nerd like Filoni in charge of the creative decisions. Have KK be in charge of the financial side of things, and Filoni make the decisions regarding the future shows and movies.

I don’t understand why Disney hasn’t done this yet. It’s fairly evident that Filoni is a Lucas disciple and holds the lore and history of SW sacred.....and understands how to craft the stories and characters accordingly. He’s literally custom fit for the role of mapping out the future of SW.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on September 10, 2020, 08:09:57 AM
From what I read, they kinda wanted to emulate George when he did the original trilogy and didn't have a whole set plan when doing a trilogy. Plus JJ never intended to be around for the next two movies so he just started things and passed on to the next set of people.

You can have both, though; just because JJ didn't intend to be around for the next two movies doesn't mean that there can't be an arc or a framework.   Harry Potter. Bond.  Any of ten or more other "franchise" efforts.   I wouldn't really be interested in a ton of reconned reboots, like Spider-Man, but you can have continuity in story while still having fluidity and creativity in the feel, narrative and visuals. 

"Rey as a Skywalker/Palpatine" is a pretty broad, fundamental component; you can still take that and go in a multitude of directions.  Just look at how Luke, Leia, Han, Chewy, the droids, etc. were incorporated; they didn't go and make Luke a hippy lesbian marijuana farmer, and yet there was growth and evolution in that character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 10, 2020, 08:21:29 AM
From what I read, they kinda wanted to emulate George when he did the original trilogy and didn't have a whole set plan when doing a trilogy. Plus JJ never intended to be around for the next two movies so he just started things and passed on to the next set of people.

You can have both, though; just because JJ didn't intend to be around for the next two movies doesn't mean that there can't be an arc or a framework.   Harry Potter. Bond.  Any of ten or more other "franchise" efforts.   I wouldn't really be interested in a ton of reconned reboots, like Spider-Man, but you can have continuity in story while still having fluidity and creativity in the feel, narrative and visuals. 

Yeah, you can, and you're not wrong in general, but they massively failed on the execution here. That is the problem, not the principle behind wanting to emulate George... Shoddy framework, poor planning, awful execution, last minute decisions, masked by an enormous budget and incredible effects and hand-waving away plotholes by moving at warp speed from one plot point to the next (the Sith dagger, anyone?). "What happened with the-" "Who cares, move on, no time to explain, just watch, hey look Force lightning, Palpatine, ten million star destroyers WHOA!!"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: T-ski on September 10, 2020, 09:22:22 AM
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, I don’t know why Rey’s heritage was such a focal point with people. It shouldn’t have had any bearing on the story whatsoever.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on September 10, 2020, 09:26:33 AM
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, I don’t know why Rey’s heritage was such a focal point with people. It shouldn’t have had any bearing on the story whatsoever.

I know it became a hug plot point in The Last Jedi, but was it a thing in The Force Awakens? I can't remember. Or was The Last Jedi stuff just a response to fans wanting to know?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 10, 2020, 09:49:28 AM
From what I read, they kinda wanted to emulate George when he did the original trilogy and didn't have a whole set plan when doing a trilogy. Plus JJ never intended to be around for the next two movies so he just started things and passed on to the next set of people.

Yeah, exactly.  And this new "revelation" is something we knew all along, so not sure what the big deal is.  Could the movies have been better if there was more of a pre-planned framework in place ahead of time?  Yeah, probably.  But it is what it is.  You either like the films or you don't.  No need to conjure up outrage over a nonstory. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: T-ski on September 10, 2020, 09:58:45 AM
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, I don’t know why Rey’s heritage was such a focal point with people. It shouldn’t have had any bearing on the story whatsoever.

I know it became a hug plot point in The Last Jedi, but was it a thing in The Force Awakens? I can't remember. Or was The Last Jedi stuff just a response to fans wanting to know?

I feel it was brought up just because of the Luke/Vader arc and people assumed it was important who Rey’s parents were. I for one didn’t care.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on September 10, 2020, 11:32:52 AM
Well, wait a second; George's idea that it is one large "buddy movie" (the droids), isn't the nine-part saga essentially the "Skywalker Story"?   If so, then Rey's heritage is a huge part of that, and going outside the fam so to speak kind of makes a mockery of that. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on September 10, 2020, 11:35:43 AM
Well, wait a second; George's idea that it is one large "buddy movie" (the droids), isn't the nine-part saga essentially the "Skywalker Story"?   If so, then Rey's heritage is a huge part of that, and going outside the fam so to speak kind of makes a mockery of that.

But as a Palpatine, it’s not about that. Could’ve made her Rey Tarkin to the same effect.

The Skywalker element was in Kylo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on September 10, 2020, 11:39:37 AM
Well, wait a second; George's idea that it is one large "buddy movie" (the droids), isn't the nine-part saga essentially the "Skywalker Story"?   If so, then Rey's heritage is a huge part of that, and going outside the fam so to speak kind of makes a mockery of that.

But as a Palpatine, it’s not about that. Could’ve made her Rey Tarkin to the same effect.

The Skywalker element was in Kylo.

I'm in over my head here; I need to shut up about overarching themes of movies I haven't seen.  :) :)   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on September 10, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Well, wait a second; George's idea that it is one large "buddy movie" (the droids), isn't the nine-part saga essentially the "Skywalker Story"?   If so, then Rey's heritage is a huge part of that, and going outside the fam so to speak kind of makes a mockery of that.

But as a Palpatine, it’s not about that. Could’ve made her Rey Tarkin to the same effect.

The Skywalker element was in Kylo.

I'm in over my head here; I need to shut up about overarching themes of movies I haven't seen.  :) :)

I’m considering this such a huge (and ultimately meaningless) victory that I’m not even going to change your name.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on September 10, 2020, 11:47:20 AM
 :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ariich on September 10, 2020, 02:54:55 PM
The thing that kills me is that the reason given is to show that "anyone can be anything no matter where they come from." Which is fine... if it made sense, or didn't take a hot wet dump on the Skywalker story.
Yeah the theme is fine but tackled better in The Last Jedi where her parents were supposed to be nobodies. Retconning that and making her a Palpatine for SPECTACLE is basically the same as the problems that Game of Thrones suffered from in the end - too much focus on shocks and events and not enough on narrative flow and coherence.

On the other hand:

I don't get the Joseph Campbell reference (that's my own fault, I know he's relevant to the Star Wars thematic discussion), but I too am not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations. Rey being a Palpatine is already a stupid thing to run with, but then to have her take the Skywalker name of her own volition? After they've all died? And she's a Palpatine by blood? Bruh. The Skywalker Saga was fine after 6 movies - for it to end with all the Skywalkers dead and then a Palpatine choosing to take the name, and being some kind of ultimate Jedi, I dunno man. It doesn't make sense other than 'hooray feel good ending' to me. But I'll leave it there cause I'll never not be salty about this awful trilogy. :P
I mean, this just seems to me like a really weird thing to be upset about.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 10, 2020, 02:59:12 PM
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but I don't think it's weird at all to be upset with it; it's an incredibly important detail in the Skywalker Saga which is 9 movies and several decades long, but it's completely unnecessary and was thrown in at the last minute. It's exactly like if you read it in a series of books and it came out of nowhere and in the last 100 pages of book 3 there was zero lead-up to the reveal in any of the rest of the trilogy. Imagine if an author did all this reckless writing. It would be equally valid to tear that apart because it doesn't make sense. Just because it's fantasy or popcorn entertainment doesn't mean internal logic should go out the window, that's my entire problem with the trilogy and it bothers me when people say it's weird to be upset with these things. (And you pretty much nailed it when replying to the first quote; we seem to be on the same page, mostly.)

And I have said this before but I'll leave it there. Until the next day. Every day is a new day. It may be six months from now, but I will return, with robotic limbs even, just like Darth Maul.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 10, 2020, 03:23:12 PM
I hope they do The Old Republic for their next set of movies
No, God, please, no.  No more prequels.

Please, let's move forward in time.  Let's see what happens next.  I don't care to see visualizations of things that happened before.  Let the backstory remain backstory.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on September 10, 2020, 03:26:07 PM
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but I don't think it's weird at all to be upset with it; it's an incredibly important detail in the Skywalker Saga which is 9 movies and several decades long, but it's completely unnecessary and was thrown in at the last minute. It's exactly like if you read it in a series of books and it came out of nowhere and in the last 100 pages of book 3 there was zero lead-up to the reveal in any of the rest of the trilogy. Imagine if an author did all this reckless writing. It would be equally valid to tear that apart because it doesn't make sense. Just because it's fantasy or popcorn entertainment doesn't mean internal logic should go out the window, that's my entire problem with the trilogy and it bothers me when people say it's weird to be upset with these things. (And you pretty much nailed it when replying to the first quote; we seem to be on the same page, mostly.)

And I have said this before but I'll leave it there. Until the next day. Every day is a new day. It may be six months from now, but I will return, with robotic limbs even, just like Darth Maul.  :lol

It's incredibly hard to do, but those skilled with narrative seem to find a way all the time, but there's nothing more rewarding than a plot twist (remember when "reveals" were still called "plot twists"?) that you had no idea was coming, but then, on further reflection, there was really no other logical conclusion?   Love those.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ariich on September 10, 2020, 03:59:59 PM
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but I don't think it's weird at all to be upset with it; it's an incredibly important detail in the Skywalker Saga which is 9 movies and several decades long, but it's completely unnecessary and was thrown in at the last minute. It's exactly like if you read it in a series of books and it came out of nowhere and in the last 100 pages of book 3 there was zero lead-up to the reveal in any of the rest of the trilogy. Imagine if an author did all this reckless writing. It would be equally valid to tear that apart because it doesn't make sense. Just because it's fantasy or popcorn entertainment doesn't mean internal logic should go out the window, that's my entire problem with the trilogy and it bothers me when people say it's weird to be upset with these things. (And you pretty much nailed it when replying to the first quote; we seem to be on the same page, mostly.)

And I have said this before but I'll leave it there. Until the next day. Every day is a new day. It may be six months from now, but I will return, with robotic limbs even, just like Darth Maul.  :lol
I agree in terms of it not really making much narrative sense, so perhaps I should have been more targeted with what I quoted from your previous post but I specifically meant the fact that you seem bothered by the fact that the Skywalkers are all dead and Rey, a Palpatine by blood, has taken it on as a title. I dunno, I guess I don't really understand what why those things in themselves would be a problem, whereas I do understand the complaints about the coherence of the story and characterisation.

It's like in Game of Thrones, some people were really upset with the outcomes at the end in terms of what characters ended up where etc. but again I can't relate to that - the problems were similarly the logic and coherence of the storytelling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on September 10, 2020, 04:02:27 PM
Not to digress, and at least I watched the whole thing so I can comment, but GoT, the "where the characters ended up" was intrinsically tied to the logic and cohesiveness of storytelling, at least for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on September 10, 2020, 10:37:42 PM
I hope they do The Old Republic for their next set of movies
No, God, please, no.  No more prequels.

Please, let's move forward in time.  Let's see what happens next.  I don't care to see visualizations of things that happened before.  Let the backstory remain backstory.

I would generally agree with you, but I assume Walrus meant something along the lines of several hundreds (or thousands) of years prior to Eps 1-9. Like if you watched a series about WWI, then WWII, and then watched a series about the Renaissance.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on September 10, 2020, 10:46:19 PM
I hope they do The Old Republic for their next set of movies
No, God, please, no.  No more prequels.

Please, let's move forward in time.  Let's see what happens next.  I don't care to see visualizations of things that happened before.  Let the backstory remain backstory.

I would generally agree with you, but I assume Walrus meant something along the lines of several hundreds (or thousands) of years prior to Eps 1-9. Like if you watched a series about WWI, then WWII, and then watched a series about the Renaissance.

I think one issue is that, I’m willing to bet, the tech and aesthetics of the old republic will look at least as advanced as the newer movies. It’ll be old in name only and won’t feel any different. It’s an issue with sci-fi prequels in general. So I also say go forward into unexplored territory.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on September 10, 2020, 11:23:35 PM
I hope they do The Old Republic for their next set of movies
No, God, please, no.  No more prequels.

Please, let's move forward in time.  Let's see what happens next.  I don't care to see visualizations of things that happened before.  Let the backstory remain backstory.

I would generally agree with you, but I assume Walrus meant something along the lines of several hundreds (or thousands) of years prior to Eps 1-9. Like if you watched a series about WWI, then WWII, and then watched a series about the Renaissance.

I think one issue is that, I’m willing to bet, the tech and aesthetics of the old republic will look at least as advanced as the newer movies. It’ll be old in name only and won’t feel any different. It’s an issue with sci-fi prequels in general. So I also say go forward into unexplored territory.

I am not a big sci-fi guy so can't speak to that being an issue with the genre, but your point is sound. It can't feel too different, or else it is out of the realm of the franchise; but it can't feel too similar either, as you stated. It's a tough line to walk, and apparently is not handled well often. It's not fair to compare a game to a film, but Knights of the Old Republic feels like it is in the Star Wars universe, but if feels different enough to stand on its own merits.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 10, 2020, 11:29:48 PM
Yeah Chris, that's exactly what I was getting at. Although I agree with Adami to an extent as well - I would still love to get some Old Republic trilogy action someday.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on September 11, 2020, 06:05:08 AM
"Game Of Thrones" set in the Star Wars Universe.

House Skywalker, House Palpatine, a bunch of incest, and some killing.  I'd watch that. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on September 11, 2020, 08:12:04 AM
KOTOR would be an excellent idea of where to set future movies.  It's not like the baseline of technology hasn't already been set by the gaming franchises.  The 'Old' Republic may have been 'old' in years passed, but wasn't necessarily 'old' in technology.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 11, 2020, 08:50:42 AM
"Game Of Thrones" set in the Star Wars Universe.

House Skywalker, House Palpatine, a bunch of incest, and some killing.  I'd watch that.

Yes, and

KOTOR would be an excellent idea of where to set future movies.  It's not like the baseline of technology hasn't already been set by the gaming franchises.  The 'Old' Republic may have been 'old' in years passed, but wasn't necessarily 'old' in technology.

yes!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Phoenix87x on September 15, 2020, 01:26:06 PM
Season 2 trailer (Mandalorian)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW7Twd85m2g
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on September 16, 2020, 07:27:04 AM
Looks good!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 16, 2020, 12:19:02 PM
Looks good!

Yeah......looks like it doesn't miss a beat. Also.....I think there was some slight of hand going on with that 'jedi' in the dark cloak scene. I think they want us to think that was Ahsoka but that wasn't Rosario Dawson.....it 'resembled' her but it wasn't her. Unless Dawson isn't playing Ahsoka.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 16, 2020, 01:37:10 PM
Looks good!

Yeah......looks like it doesn't miss a beat. Also.....I think there was some slight of hand going on with that 'jedi' in the dark cloak scene. I think they want us to think that was Ahsoka but that wasn't Rosario Dawson.....it 'resembled' her but it wasn't her. Unless Dawson isn't playing Ahsoka.
No sleight of hand, and they don't want you to think that was Ahsoka.  That wasn't Rosario Dawson, it was WWE talent Sasha Banks.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 16, 2020, 07:56:20 PM
Looks good!

Yeah......looks like it doesn't miss a beat. Also.....I think there was some slight of hand going on with that 'jedi' in the dark cloak scene. I think they want us to think that was Ahsoka but that wasn't Rosario Dawson.....it 'resembled' her but it wasn't her. Unless Dawson isn't playing Ahsoka.
No sleight of hand, and they don't want you to think that was Ahsoka.  That wasn't Rosario Dawson, it was WWE talent Sasha Banks.

Cool. Not familiar with her.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: The Curious Orange on September 17, 2020, 08:10:39 AM
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, I don’t know why Rey’s heritage was such a focal point with people. It shouldn’t have had any bearing on the story whatsoever.

I know it became a hug plot point in The Last Jedi, but was it a thing in The Force Awakens? I can't remember. Or was The Last Jedi stuff just a response to fans wanting to know?

I'd rather Rey hadn't been anyone special. It would have made her story better if she was prevailing based on her own talents and abilities rather than because of her bloodline. Besides, it would have subverted the whole "Chosen One" trope that's been done to death.
Oh, and her resurrection was a bit of a cop out - she should have stayed dead.

I feel it was brought up just because of the Luke/Vader arc and people assumed it was important who Rey’s parents were. I for one didn’t care.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on September 17, 2020, 02:19:28 PM
Sidenote: This is probably the best interpretation of John Williams music i've ever heard.

John Williams & Vienna Philharmonic – Williams: Imperial March (from “Star Wars”) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsMWVW4xtwI&ab_channel=DeutscheGrammophon)

Every instrument section is just flawless as far as I can tell. I think my favourite part is just the last few bars with the subtle ritardando, it's so tight and in sync it's almost not noticable.  :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on September 19, 2020, 05:22:42 AM
Finished watching through the Resistance series. Clearly it was meant for younger audiences given its Y7 rating and the more childish humor. It was enjoyable because its Star Wars, but otherwise it's pretty unnecessary in grand scheme of Star Wars material.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 19, 2020, 09:29:22 AM
Finished watching through the Resistance series. Clearly it was meant for younger audiences given its Y7 rating and the more childish humor. It was enjoyable because its Star Wars, but otherwise it's pretty unnecessary in grand scheme of Star Wars material.

Yeah......I just can't do it. Clone Wars started rather simple and geared towards kids but it evolved as it went on to a solid series that was worth the watch. Resistance just doesn't have that appeal or promise for me to invest the time. Plus, I'm not all that interested in those characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on September 19, 2020, 09:31:50 AM
Finished watching through the Resistance series. Clearly it was meant for younger audiences given its Y7 rating and the more childish humor. It was enjoyable because its Star Wars, but otherwise it's pretty unnecessary in grand scheme of Star Wars material.

Yeah......I just can't do it. Clone Wars started rather simple and geared towards kids but it evolved as it went on to a solid series that was worth the watch. Resistance just doesn't have that appeal or promise for me to invest the time. Plus, I'm not all that interested in those characters.
I wasn't really invested in the characters either. I generally had it on in the background while I was working, so I caught the basic plot, but wasn't watching in great detail. Although Clone Wars and Rebels were the same way and I enjoyed those a lot more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 01, 2020, 02:13:54 PM
I couldn't get very far into Rebels.  I thought Clone Wars was hit and miss, with the good episodes sometimes being REALLY good, but the bad ones being really bad.  A few episodes into Rebels, and it seems to pretty consistently be as good as the lower-tier Clone Wars stuff. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: kaos2900 on October 01, 2020, 02:29:10 PM
Rebels get's really good. I think it's easily on par with the best Clone Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 01, 2020, 02:40:11 PM
Rebels get's really good. I think it's easily on par with the best Clone Wars.

Agreed. I’d say Rebels was a more solid series overall because there was no real ‘weak’ parts. There was good, better and awesome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on October 16, 2020, 11:38:26 AM
Well fuckin hell. (18-min video included in the article).  Very cool watch.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.5762110/canadian-youtubers-engineer-hyper-realistic-plasma-lightsaber-that-can-cut-through-steel-1.5762115
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Stadler on October 16, 2020, 02:04:04 PM
Anyone seen the Uber Eats commercials with Mark Hammill and Patrick Stewart?   I think they're funny.    "I AM my daddy... wait, wut?"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: T-ski on October 16, 2020, 06:21:13 PM
Anyone seen the Uber Eats commercials with Mark Hammill and Patrick Stewart?   I think they're funny.    "I AM my daddy... wait, wut?"

Very funny commercials. Sir Patrick is one funny dude.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on October 27, 2020, 04:12:36 PM
Mrs. Orbert couldn't resist the deal that Disney+ was offerring, so we started watching The Mandalorian.  We're four episodes in so far, and it's really good.

When it first started, there was a huge buzz about it, and of course "Baby Yoda" memes all over the place, so I've been basically avoiding this thread ever since, because I always intended to check it out and didn't want to be spoiled.  Apparently they're already done three seasons and are getting ready to drop the fourth, so I guess I have to go back to avoiding this thread.

Anyway, The Mandalorian is really good so far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on October 27, 2020, 04:18:20 PM
Season 2 comes out Friday. They may have confirmed future seasons, but you’ll be caught up by this weekend.

Also, been watching the behind the scenes series. Some stuff flew over my head, but for the most part it’s been quite fascinating.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Kotowboy on October 27, 2020, 04:21:29 PM
I wonder what the next STAR WARS movie will be ?

Even though after TROS i'm done with SW.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on October 27, 2020, 04:26:05 PM
I wonder what the next STAR WARS movie will be ?

Even though after TROS i'm done with SW.

This post contradicts itself.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Kotowboy on October 27, 2020, 04:28:31 PM
Nah I can still WONDER what the next film will be despite not wanting to pay money to see it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on October 27, 2020, 04:36:16 PM
Nah I can still WONDER what the next film will be despite not wanting to pay money to see it.

You and I have different definitions of “I’m done”
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on October 27, 2020, 05:28:35 PM
Season 2 comes out Friday. They may have confirmed future seasons, but you’ll be caught up by this weekend.

Also, been watching the behind the scenes series. Some stuff flew over my head, but for the most part it’s been quite fascinating.

That's what I thought, but obviously there's some kind of conspiracy to keep Orbert clueless regarding The Mandalorian.  When we pull it up on Disney+, we can select Season 1, Season 2, or Season 3.  I never actually looked to see what there was for Seasons 2 or 3.  I checked on IMDb, and they list Seasons 1 through 3 as well.  I just checked, and those are just placeholders.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 27, 2020, 05:33:17 PM
If I were Disney I would take a good look at the previous expanded universe and pick the best story/stories and adjust one or more to fit in the new canon. There are dozens of them. Preferably one far removed from the Skywalker timeline.

Instead of them making safe remake-esque sequels (ep 7 and 9) or experimental trainwrecks (ep 8), I'd now rather see them adapt a cool existing story presented as a blockbuster film. At least until someone comes along with a great new script of a defined story before any production starts. It is painfully clear there was no real gameplan for the latest trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Kotowboy on October 28, 2020, 04:56:21 AM
Nah I can still WONDER what the next film will be despite not wanting to pay money to see it.

You and I have different definitions of “I’m done”

I'm done with paying to see the films in the cinema. I can still wonder what films are coming out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on October 28, 2020, 05:37:58 AM
Nah I can still WONDER what the next film will be despite not wanting to pay money to see it.

You and I have different definitions of “I’m done”

I'm done with paying to see the films in the cinema. I can still wonder what films are coming out.

That clarifies things.  You'd said "I'm done with SW" earlier, without any specificity about what you were 'done' with.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 28, 2020, 10:28:03 AM
The SW franchise can be easily saved if the ‘suites’ stay out of the decision making process and let the people who know the lore and the SW universe make movies.

I and others have said it a hundred times. Give the creative and story decision making for the SW movies to Dave Filoni......he eats sleeps and breathes SW and knows the universe even better than Lucas at this point.  Allow him to craft the direction and stories going forward with people like Favreau as a partner and there’d be no more things like a trilogy with no plan happening.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on October 30, 2020, 07:44:59 PM
Dayum!  Great episode.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives October 30th, 2020
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 30, 2020, 07:56:30 PM
It airs today right?
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives October 30th, 2020
Post by: jingle.boy on October 30, 2020, 08:33:36 PM
Already watched. Dayum fine episode.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives October 30th, 2020
Post by: faizoff on October 30, 2020, 08:37:26 PM
Agreed, fantastic episode and leaves me wanting more right away. Looks like they didn't miss a beat.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on October 30, 2020, 08:52:02 PM
Agreed!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 30, 2020, 10:03:00 PM
Loved it. Will give it the weekend before discussing further......but I love the tone and atmosphere of this show
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lonestar on October 31, 2020, 12:28:23 AM
Outstanding start, the overall feel and quality of the show hasn't dropped one iota. Will discuss more when everyone has caught up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on October 31, 2020, 05:56:10 AM
Loved it. Will give it the weekend before discussing further......but I love the tone and atmosphere of this show

Good idea.  Maybe we have a gentlemen's agreement that we go spoiler free until Monday mornings?

I still can't get over how The Child is 100% puppet/animatronics.  He's so damned real.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 31, 2020, 07:51:30 AM
Loved it. Will give it the weekend before discussing further......but I love the tone and atmosphere of this show

Good idea.  Maybe we have a gentlemen's agreement that we go spoiler free until Monday mornings?

I still can't get over how The Child is 100% puppet/animatronics.  He's so damned real.

I think that’s a good idea. By Monday morning the internet will be spoiling anything of significance anyway so I think that’s a good buffer.


And you’re right on the Child. It looks like a living thing. The blend of CGI and practical effects is PERFECT in this show. And again as I mentioned and RJ pointed out.....the ‘feel’ of this show is just incredible.  Gritty yet refined.....that hint of “western” atmosphere is subtle enough to take your mind there and not be heavy handed to where it’s over the top.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on October 31, 2020, 08:12:36 AM
Who else watched the 8 episode behind the scenes series?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on October 31, 2020, 11:00:44 AM
Who else watched the 8 episode behind the scenes series?

I did, I thrive on that kind of behind the scene material.

I loved all the technology and how it's being put to practical use. So many interesting things learned from that series. And it goes without saying Dave Filoni is a Wikipedia of the entire Star Wars and hopefully he's able to get a movie going.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Adami on October 31, 2020, 11:03:46 AM
Really enjoyed the episode!

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 31, 2020, 11:39:54 AM
Who else watched the 8 episode behind the scenes series?

I did. Really fascinating. Especially the set that they use and that technology. Pretty remarkable stuff. But it does make you furious that they didn’t utilize Dave Filoni at all for the sequel series. He’s a living SW prophet so to speak who ‘understands’ that universe and the fact he wasn’t involved in any of that is a travesty and it shows.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lordxizor on October 31, 2020, 01:20:53 PM
Not to be a broken record, but that was a good episode! I kinda wish they would just release all the episodes at once, but I think I do enjoy the one a week release. It allows you to digest and discuss each episode better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on October 31, 2020, 04:05:52 PM
Not to be a broken record, but that was a good episode! I kinda wish they would just release all the episodes at once, but I think I do enjoy the one a week release. It allows you to digest and discuss each episode better.

Right?  I understand why they didn't do it last year, since they didn't want people to register, and just pay $7.99, then un-register.  This way, they get a minimum 3 months subscription out of people.  Maybe that's the same rational this year, but there is more original content on the horizon, so that reasoning doesn't hold as much weight.

@ Gary... yeah, that shit with The Volume is simply incredible.  It's the beginnings of a fuckin holodeck!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on October 31, 2020, 10:59:55 PM
Who else watched the 8 episode behind the scenes series?

I did. Really fascinating. Especially the set that they use and that technology. Pretty remarkable stuff. But it does make you furious that they didn’t utilize Dave Filoni at all for the sequel series. He’s a living SW prophet so to speak who ‘understands’ that universe and the fact he wasn’t involved in any of that is a travesty and it shows.
That is insanely criminal to not use Filoni this season.
I mean Favreau is no slouch and is a proven filmmaker but Filoni is a level on his own.


That's extremely disappointing to hear.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 31, 2020, 11:54:48 PM
Who else watched the 8 episode behind the scenes series?

I did. Really fascinating. Especially the set that they use and that technology. Pretty remarkable stuff. But it does make you furious that they didn’t utilize Dave Filoni at all for the sequel series. He’s a living SW prophet so to speak who ‘understands’ that universe and the fact he wasn’t involved in any of that is a travesty and it shows.
That is insanely criminal to not use Filoni this season.
I mean Favreau is no slouch and is a proven filmmaker but Filoni is a level on his own.


That's extremely disappointing to hear.

I was speaking about Filoni not being used in the sequel trilogy. He and Favreau are still running the Mandalorian. The lack of vision and a non cohesive story between TFA, TLJ and TROS is a clear example of people not understanding the SW universe.

The success of the Mandalorian is due to Filoni’s contribution as a SW Universe oracle and Favreau’s ability to create compelling content. Combined.....those two have recaptured the essence of SW and I’d even submit they’ve taken it to a level that Lucas didn’t even achieve with the OT.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 01, 2020, 05:54:20 AM
Filoni:  Now *I* am the master.

 :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on November 01, 2020, 07:29:49 AM
Who else watched the 8 episode behind the scenes series?

I did. Really fascinating. Especially the set that they use and that technology. Pretty remarkable stuff. But it does make you furious that they didn’t utilize Dave Filoni at all for the sequel series. He’s a living SW prophet so to speak who ‘understands’ that universe and the fact he wasn’t involved in any of that is a travesty and it shows.
That is insanely criminal to not use Filoni this season.
I mean Favreau is no slouch and is a proven filmmaker but Filoni is a level on his own.


That's extremely disappointing to hear.

I was speaking about Filoni not being used in the sequel trilogy. He and Favreau are still running the Mandalorian. The lack of vision and a non cohesive story between TFA, TLJ and TROS is a clear example of people not understanding the SW universe.

The success of the Mandalorian is due to Filoni’s contribution as a SW Universe oracle and Favreau’s ability to create compelling content. Combined.....those two have recaptured the essence of SW and I’d even submit they’ve taken it to a level that Lucas didn’t even achieve with the OT.


Ah ok, makes sense and totally agree. I am hoping that Kevin Fiege's and Taika Waititi's involvement in the standalone movies brings it the same essence as Filoni brought to the series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lonestar on November 01, 2020, 09:37:38 AM
The Gallery series was outstanding, and I think Filoni's monologue on the importance of the Duel of the Fates and the fated arc at the end of ep2 was breathtaking. It takes some serious storytelling to keep all the other directors rapt in attention for a good seven minutes, but he did, and he left them all speechless.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 01, 2020, 09:58:27 AM
The Gallery series was outstanding, and I think Filoni's monologue on the importance of the Duel of the Fates and the fated arc at the end of ep2 was breathtaking. It takes some serious storytelling to keep all the other directors rapt in attention for a good seven minutes, but he did, and he left them all speechless.

I was captivated by pretty much the whole series.  But yeah, Filoni is a great story teller - I guess that's what makes a great director!
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives October 30th, 2020
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on November 01, 2020, 10:49:57 AM
Ready for the new season!  My only knock is I don't like the small 30 min episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: lonestar on November 01, 2020, 12:13:57 PM
The Gallery series was outstanding, and I think Filoni's monologue on the importance of the Duel of the Fates and the fated arc at the end of ep2 was breathtaking. It takes some serious storytelling to keep all the other directors rapt in attention for a good seven minutes, but he did, and he left them all speechless.

I was captivated by pretty much the whole series.  But yeah, Filoni is a great story teller - I guess that's what makes a great director!

Agreed. Disney needs to hand the keys over right fucking now.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives October 30th, 2020
Post by: jingle.boy on November 01, 2020, 03:17:37 PM
Ready for the new season!  My only knock is I don't like the small 30 min episodes.

Then you'll be happy to know that this season, they are closer to an hour (or so jingle.son tells me).
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives October 30th, 2020
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 01, 2020, 03:35:24 PM
Ready for the new season!  My only knock is I don't like the small 30 min episodes.

Then you'll be happy to know that this season, they are closer to an hour (or so jingle.son tells me).

Yeah. First episode was 50ish minutes. I hope they’re all That  long.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Orbert on November 01, 2020, 07:25:46 PM
We started watching the Gallery series, too, and that monologue by Filoni was amazing.  As others have said, the guy gets it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 01, 2020, 08:20:15 PM
We started watching the Gallery series, too, and that monologue by Filoni was amazing.  As others have said, the guy gets it.

I mean, anyone who can make you see that deep into what most of us just see as a kickass lightsaber contest, that's someone thinking on a whole different level.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 01, 2020, 10:13:30 PM
I was captivated by pretty much the whole series.  But yeah, Filoni is a great story teller - I guess that's what makes a great director!

I do know this guy from Adam and haven't watched any of these SW series, but I feel a good storyteller is a good storyteller, regardless of what type of story he or she is trying to tell. I do not know if that translates to being a good director though, since that position requires a lot of management and administrative tasks along with storytelling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 01, 2020, 10:51:01 PM
OK it’s late and i know I won’t be able to post much tomorrow so I want to get this thought out there.

That was not Boba Fett at the end of the episode. I think they want you to believe that given his armor wa
Shown and that is the actor who played him.....but, I’m willing to be that is Rex.

If they’re bringing in Ashoka it’d make sense that Rex would be the one to help find her. Or, he may end up telling Mando he knows someone who can help him find the Child’s kind.

Boba would be very old anyway.....I just think it makes sense that’d be Rex.



I loved the added element of making the sand people more than just raiders and killers.....‘humanizing’ then if you will. I liked that there was no double cross element to the deal made with Mando for the armor. That’d have been easy and expected to do.

Anyway I wanted to Throw my small font point out there and see if anyone else was thinking that same thing?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: faizoff on November 02, 2020, 05:14:16 AM
I liked that too about giving more depth to the raiders, my friends on the other hand were very disappointed saying its just fan service and forced nostalgia. I disagreed and said that their inclusion at least helps with the episode story.


As far as the ending going, I'm willing to wait to find out for sure because I think it lays into the obvious conclusion using the same actor from before.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 02, 2020, 05:26:53 AM
I loved the angle with the Raiders.  Goes to show you simply can't judge a book by it's cover, and Anakin simply jumping to conclusions and looking for ways to justify his rage

As for Boba vs Rex.  Interesting thought, and a bit of a twist of an angle.  My first thought was, Mandalorian armour or not, he's still a Mandalorian, so why is allowing his face to be shown?  As for the age, Boba was what, 11, 12 in AotC, which is officially 22 years BBY, and this series is said to be 9 years after ABY, right?  So Boba would be mid-40s?

Terrumo himself is 60 years old, so it's not a stretch.  However, imdb credits him as Boba Fett, so the theory is pretty much shot.  :biggrin:  Unless the show is trying to work the fans as well.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Official Thread
Post by: ariich on November 02, 2020, 10:50:44 AM
The Mandalorian is getting discussed both in here and in the Star Wars thread. Anyone have an issue if I merge the two threads together?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 02, 2020, 11:02:54 AM
However, imdb credits him as Boba Fett, so the theory is pretty much shot.  :biggrin:  Unless the show is trying to work the fans as well.

I'm not putting too much stock into that single IMDB listing just yet. It's difficult to envision the role Boba Fett would play in the story being told?  Other than being a Mandalorian and a Fan favorite he's out of place. 'If' the rumors are true and Ahsoka is indeed making an appearance this season....it makes entirely more sense for that to have been Rex. This show has yet to disappoint so even if it remains that it is 'just' Boba Fett....I'm sure it'll tie into the story somehow other than the generic he's also a mandalorian. 
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Official Thread
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 02, 2020, 11:03:14 AM
Merge away.....
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Official Thread
Post by: jingle.boy on November 02, 2020, 11:11:12 AM
Merge away.....

Bring two together as one.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Official Thread
Post by: Adami on November 02, 2020, 11:15:43 AM
Merge away.....

He has spoken.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Official Thread
Post by: jingle.boy on November 02, 2020, 12:15:47 PM
Merge away.....

He has spoken.

This is the Way
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Official Thread
Post by: ariich on November 02, 2020, 01:13:20 PM
Merge away.....

He has spoken.

This is the Way
I was waiting for this. :heart
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 02, 2020, 01:18:47 PM
I really hope it's Rex or just another random surviving clone trooper rather than Boba Fett.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 02, 2020, 01:29:50 PM
I really hope it's Rex or just another random surviving clone trooper rather than Boba Fett.

I guess if it's not either of them it could be Gregor.....but if it's not Boba then Rex makes the most sense being he and Ahsoka were last seen together. All the other Clone troopers still had the chips in their heads and were used as the first wave of storm troopers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 02, 2020, 01:49:05 PM
Timothy Olyphant was pretty good as well....he typically gives a solid effort in all the roles he has. Fun fact....the bartender in the episode was played by Earl Brown......who played Dan Dority in 'Deadwood'. So there was a little reunion going on set as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on November 02, 2020, 08:49:56 PM
I appreciate them skipping the foreplay and going right for the money shot of "Timothy Olyphant guest stars as a lawman", between that and me catching up on Fargo it was a good week on that front :lol

Timothy Olyphant was pretty good as well....he typically gives a solid effort in all the roles he has. Fun fact....the bartender in the episode was played by Earl Brown......who played Dan Dority in 'Deadwood'. So there was a little reunion going on set as well.

Yeah, I didn't even realize about Earl Brown until I saw a twitter thread from him about the experience afterwards. As a huge Deadwood fan, that's a fun little touch, and evidently the two of them fell into doing Deadwood scenes when they were killing time on set, which must've been fun for everyone there.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian 2 - Arrives October 30th, 2020
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on November 03, 2020, 11:45:49 AM
Ready for the new season!  My only knock is I don't like the small 30 min episodes.

Then you'll be happy to know that this season, they are closer to an hour (or so jingle.son tells me).
Excellent news!!!  I mean... I'd still watch it otherwise  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 06, 2020, 07:30:17 AM
Chapter 10 out today! Decent episode, but not as good as the last one.

On a side note, I've read in multiple entertainment news sources that Boba Fett returned in Chapter 9, stating it likes it a well known fact. More than ever, I really hope it turns out to not be Bob Fett.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on November 06, 2020, 09:51:36 AM
Bob Fett must've been what he called himself later, after getting teased mercilessly as a child for having a silly name.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 06, 2020, 02:47:12 PM
This looks glorious!

Disney+ Lego Star Wars Holiday Special (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlkjmdMtP9w)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 06, 2020, 03:32:33 PM
This looks glorious!

Disney+ Lego Star Wars Holiday Special (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlkjmdMtP9w)

 :lol   Looks fun! 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on November 06, 2020, 04:25:49 PM
That looks like a blast
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on November 06, 2020, 07:40:06 PM
Chapter 10 out today! Decent episode, but not as good as the last one.

On a side note, I've read in multiple entertainment news sources that Boba Fett returned in Chapter 9, stating it likes it a well known fact. More than ever, I really hope it turns out to not be Bob Fett.

Yeah the episode could've used more season-story development than what was given. It was short too and very in the middle, I did enjoy it but it just kinda didn't do much.

According to the credits, the character at the end is the same actor who played Jango Fett in Attack of the clones. We shall have to wait and see if there's more to it.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 07, 2020, 12:52:22 AM
Fun episode...didn't bring a lot to the overall table, but fun. An overload of Baby Yoda cuteness for sure.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 09, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
Has anyone here read the 'Darth Vader' comics? I'm contemplating buying the Omnibus that is available that has all 25 comics....but it's like $300.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 09, 2020, 05:53:43 PM
So...  this week's episode.  Cool, but hard to see how it really contributed much overall.  I'll bet that the Rebellion will come back into things somehoe, and frog-lady/husband will have a bigger role to play when all is said and done.

Guess she doesn't count her eggs, huh?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on November 09, 2020, 05:55:43 PM
I liked the episode and have no issue with it not being a huge part of the larger story. It was fun.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 09, 2020, 05:58:53 PM
I liked the episode and have no issue with it not being a huge part of the larger story. It was fun.

Me too... absolutely.  Over the weekend, I was thinking that not every episode in any serialized TV show needs to be pushing towards the endgame, so I was totally cool with this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 09, 2020, 07:39:34 PM
I liked the episode and have no issue with it not being a huge part of the larger story. It was fun.

Me too... absolutely.  Over the weekend, I was thinking that not every episode in any serialized TV show needs to be pushing towards the endgame, so I was totally cool with this.

Yeah. I like the fact they’re not all hit you over the head with important content. It was a fun episode that although in the surface seems like nothing happened.....I’m sure that when viewed as a whole this episode will probably have something important in it that we don’t recognize yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on November 09, 2020, 09:01:00 PM
Yeah, exactly.  Life doesn't move in a linear fashion.  I don't expect a serial to necessarily do so either.  When I think back on Galactica, for example, although that series had a lot heavier content overall, and was pretty methodical in pushing the story forward, there were plenty of episodes that took detours just to build character or show what was going on in some other little corner of the fleet or the galaxy, even if it didn't impact the larger story.  But it still helped build the connective tissue of the entire "world" they were building with the story.  This episode did that too, especially by tying back to what seemed like another small detour--the prison ship escapade. 

I like how every time the child went to eat an egg, Mando would tell him "no!" but not take away the one in his hand that he was about to eat.  :lolpalm:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 09, 2020, 09:16:10 PM


I like how every time the child went to eat an egg, Mando would tell him "no!" but not take away the one in his hand that he was about to eat.  :lolpalm:

Seriously haha...makes him less a father figure and more the fun uncle figure that sneaks you a beer behind mom's back.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 09, 2020, 09:24:10 PM
(https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/124389933_10100684523880780_5298142829651634017_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=xKwDqi2CkkwAX_KuDFo&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=3d19dd7a63b6e72e8addc117ab591f9a&oe=5FCE0A09)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on November 13, 2020, 03:00:24 AM
This looks glorious!

Disney+ Lego Star Wars Holiday Special (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlkjmdMtP9w)

So they used Red Letter Media's TROS time travel idea :-P
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 13, 2020, 01:30:28 PM
Loved this episode. I really like the approach the series takes with the methodical telling of the story. They don't force too much into each episode....it's clear they have a plan for the pace of the story and they stick to it. Will have to wait until 'our' agreed upon timeframe to dig into this one more but I'll just say again how much I appreciated the episode as a whole.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on November 13, 2020, 02:43:05 PM
I like the way things are playing out.  There's this season's arc (get The Child back to his people) but along the way, there will be adventures big and small, and we'll get to see more of the Star Wars universe, and occassionally run into familiar things or even familiar people.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on November 13, 2020, 03:45:40 PM
Great episode. Loved it.

Might say more after the weekend.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 13, 2020, 04:04:26 PM
Might say more after the weekend.

I know I will. I want to say more now but will be patient.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on November 13, 2020, 07:35:29 PM
LOVED this episode. Probably one of the best of the series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 13, 2020, 08:55:42 PM
Might say more after the weekend.

I know I will. I want to say more now but will be patient.

Naturally, given the tie in with The Clone Wars. My only beef tonight was that IT WAS ONLY 30 MINUTES!!!  Give me moar
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 14, 2020, 04:40:12 AM
That was a great episode. I agree it should have  been longer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on November 14, 2020, 07:17:15 AM
Awesome episode. Loved the guest stars.

Also, I'm finally getting round to watching The Clone Wars. One question I have is whether there's any point in watching the movie first or shall I just watch the series?

EDIT: Also, not for right now but for later on, does it make any difference whether I watch Rebels between seasons 6 and 7 or just watch it separately once I've finished TCW?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 14, 2020, 09:31:04 AM
I have never watched the Clone War movie. I did a quick YouTube review of it and then hammered out the series.

You’re good with Rebels after TCW’s. I’m near certain everything in Rebels takes place years after TCWs. The delay between the production of S6 and S7 didn’t cause a huge jump in time.....it was really them just tying up some loose ends the original ending of TCWs gave us.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 14, 2020, 12:48:28 PM
Katie Sackoff.... :heart


Also great episode, but Katie :hearts:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 14, 2020, 01:41:03 PM
Katie Sackoff.... :heart


Also great episode, but Katie :hearts:

Yep. LOVE her. She’s great in everything she does. And she’s a cutie pie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 14, 2020, 01:51:33 PM
Katie Sackoff.... :heart


Also great episode, but Katie :hearts:

Yep. LOVE her. She’s great in everything she does. And she’s a cutie pie.

And age appropriate for us fogeys to ogle over.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 14, 2020, 01:57:41 PM
Katie Sackoff.... :heart


Also great episode, but Katie :hearts:

Yep. LOVE her. She’s great in everything she does. And she’s a cutie pie.

And age appropriate for us fogeys to ogle over.

She’s a fun follow on social media. Very positive person who has a lot of fun
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 14, 2020, 02:06:43 PM
Katie Sackoff.... :heart


Also great episode, but Katie :hearts:

Yep. LOVE her. She’s great in everything she does. And she’s a cutie pie.

And age appropriate for us fogeys to ogle over.

She’s a fun follow on social media. Very positive person who has a lot of fun

Yup...just....sigh.... :hearts:



On a sidenote, I'm really wishing I had run through clone wars now, just could never get into it, and 8 seasons/150ish episodes seems daunting as fuck now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 14, 2020, 03:12:44 PM
RJ there are a few good YouTube videos that cover the series and what happens. You’ll miss ‘growing’ with the characters like Ashoka and seeing Anakin and Obi Wan developed better.....but it could fill in some holes.

It’s a huge commitment to watch though. Especially since the episodes are hit and miss the first two or three seasons. I’ve said it before but I put the ratio to about 80/20 as far as good to waste of time/boring.

Obviously I’m on record as Ashoka being one of if not my favorite SW character. Her and Clone Wars Anakin and Clone Wars Kenobi are at a dead heat for my ‘favorite’. I personally think the time commitment is ‘worth it’ to any SW fan who is more than the casual fan.

Same with Rebels. Rebels is really good as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 14, 2020, 08:37:48 PM
I think I'm like 18 episodes into S1, and it's a chore to go back each time, but I'm also avoiding a synopsis run in case I do want to go back, if that makes sense. Ahsoka gets so much love I really want to delve into her character before she makes her Mandalorian appearance but time just won't allow that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 15, 2020, 03:31:22 AM
Man, this episode was fun!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on November 15, 2020, 06:57:50 AM
I've never seen any of the animated Star Wars, just bits and pieces.  I've seen names tossed around during discussions here and elsewhere, so I caught the Ahsoka Tano name drop, and I remember some of y'all mentioning that there are different "factions" (for lack of a better word) of Mandalorians, at least some of whom don't have a problem taking their masks off.  So that was interesting.  And yet, as the episode was unfolding, I never felt like I was missing anything.  The show gave me what I needed to know to understand what's going on, while at the same time, people more familiar with the backstories would get more out of it.  That's fine, too.  That's their reward for being up on all things Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 15, 2020, 07:15:05 AM
I think I'm like 18 episodes into S1, and it's a chore to go back each time, but I'm also avoiding a synopsis run in case I do want to go back, if that makes sense. Ahsoka gets so much love I really want to delve into her character before she makes her Mandalorian appearance but time just won't allow that.

I hear ya... jingle.son and I tried tackling it over the summer, but we stalled somewhere around the ep 10 point of S1.  It just wasn't terribly entertaining, and there's SO MUCH other stuff that's a higher priority.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 15, 2020, 07:40:52 AM
I managed to watch through all of The Clone Wars, Rebels, and Resistance over the course of this year. It was mostly on in the background while I was working from home, so I can't say I caught every last detail. But it was mostly very entertaining and grew my appreciation of the Star Wars universe. It's kinda fun to catch those little nods to stuff from the animated world in the movies and now The Mandalorian. So far it hasn't seemed like you'd be missing anything by not having seen the animated series though. Hopefully it stays that way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2020, 06:56:32 PM
The Clone Wars is a chore to get through just because there is so much of it that isn't very good, especially in the early seasons.  But as you progress, there is more and more that is really good, that wouldn't have been quite as good without the added texture and depth provided by the earlier stuff. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 15, 2020, 07:15:50 PM
The Clone Wars is a chore to get through just because there is so much of it that isn't very good, especially in the early seasons.  But as you progress, there is more and more that is really good, that wouldn't have been quite as good without the added texture and depth provided by the earlier stuff.

Pretty good assessment. S3 for me it really caught it’s stride and the good heavily outweighed the bad. First season or two it was hit and miss. But you’re right.....it’s a catch 22 because you need that background and history of the characters (especially Ashoka) to appreciate their character journey.

I didn’t feel the same way about Rebels. I thought Rebels was great out of the gate and never stopped.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on November 15, 2020, 07:41:17 PM
I'm thinking of starting Rebels sometime soon, are there any connections with the clone wars show? I'm assuming you can watch Rebels without having seen Clone Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 15, 2020, 07:45:35 PM
I'm thinking of starting Rebels sometime soon, are there any connections with the clone wars show? I'm assuming you can watch Rebels without having seen Clone Wars.

Nothing major that you’d need to enjoy it. The connections that they make are spelled out pretty good for you.

My brother started watching it last week and he said he watched the entire first season and a few episodes into the second in two nights.....that it’s a “lot better than he expected”

The story pumps along pretty good. Where TCW would lose you on some silly episodes Rebels co rubies to move it along with little if any ‘wasted’ episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on November 15, 2020, 08:27:38 PM
Thanks, that's kinda what I thought.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 16, 2020, 05:18:55 AM
Most excellent episode this week - back to moving the story forward.  Cool to get more back-story of Mandalorian's in general.  That's gotta come back later in the season for sure. 

The Razor Crest is a bigger hunk of junk than the Falcon now.  That thing looks like a 6-year jingle.boy trying to make lego ships out of his spare pieces, cuz he can't afford to buy the kit.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on November 16, 2020, 05:32:12 AM
Most excellent episode this week - back to moving the story forward.  Cool to get more back-story of Mandalorian's in general.  That's gotta come back later in the season for sure. 

The Razor Crest is a bigger hunk of junk than the Falcon now.  That thing looks like a 6-year jingle.boy trying to make lego ships out of his spare pieces, cuz he can't afford to buy the kit.  :lol

 :lol I loved his reaction when he got back into it!

This show is just so good. It's amazing how well they're pulling it off. IMO it's the best thing Star Wars has done in a VERY long time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 16, 2020, 07:29:20 AM
I agree The Mandalorian is the best Star Wars in a while. I just hope they have a plan for the overarching plot and a plan for the number of season so it doesn't just keep getting strung along since it's popular. I also hope they don't try too hard to use it as a vehicle to spin off other shows/movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 16, 2020, 08:15:19 AM
Ahsoka gets so much love I really want to delve into her character before she makes her Mandalorian appearance but time just won't allow that.

Well, the Youtube video I've linked below does a really good job of giving an idea of 'who' she is as a character, it speaks to her close relationship with Anakin and as I said....paints a pretty good picture of her as a whole. If you're looking to 'understand' who you're about to meet on 'The Mandalorian' this would be the video to watch.


BUT......it is comprised of clips from both The Clone Wars and Rebels which makes it filled with spoilers if you plan to watch either or both those series you'll see action sequences, characters, etc etc that may surprise you and/or leave you wondering what, why and how it's happening. But it's a good 'hype' video so it may make you want to delve into Rebels and TCW's.

Anyway, here's the link but again for anyone who plans on watching TCW's and/or Rebels....you'll be exposed to images/characters from those series......so watch at the risk of being spoiled



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQKs6U8eWoQ&t=4s
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 16, 2020, 05:39:47 PM
For those who want to learn a bit about Ahsokanwithout spending weeks catching up, that YouTube video above is good. I'd also suggest watching the last four episodes of The Clone Wars. They're pretty fantastic and give good insight into where her story leaves off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 16, 2020, 06:00:23 PM
For those who want to learn a bit about Ahsokanwithout spending weeks catching up, that YouTube video above is good. I'd also suggest watching the last four episodes of The Clone Wars. They're pretty fantastic and give good insight into where her story leaves off.

I personally consider Those last 4 episodes of Clone Wars some of the best SW material ever. From the score to the action to the animation.....incredible. I’d suggest watching them all at once.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 16, 2020, 06:29:03 PM
For those who want to learn a bit about Ahsokanwithout spending weeks catching up, that YouTube video above is good. I'd also suggest watching the last four episodes of The Clone Wars. They're pretty fantastic and give good insight into where her story leaves off.

I personally consider Those last 4 episodes of Clone Wars some of the best SW material ever. From the score to the action to the animation.....incredible. I’d suggest watching them all at once.

Are you talking the last four from the season just released? If I'm truly honest with myself, I'll never commit to watching it all the way through  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 16, 2020, 07:10:27 PM
For those who want to learn a bit about Ahsokanwithout spending weeks catching up, that YouTube video above is good. I'd also suggest watching the last four episodes of The Clone Wars. They're pretty fantastic and give good insight into where her story leaves off.

I personally consider Those last 4 episodes of Clone Wars some of the best SW material ever. From the score to the action to the animation.....incredible. I’d suggest watching them all at once.

Are you talking the last four from the season just released? If I'm truly honest with myself, I'll never commit to watching it all the way through  :lol
Yes, those four. Watch them all at once like a movie. They're awesome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on November 16, 2020, 07:52:09 PM
I personally consider Those last 4 episodes of Clone Wars some of the best SW material ever.

Well, maybe some of the best animated SW material ever.  But it should be stressed that that is a VERY low bar. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 16, 2020, 08:18:14 PM
I personally consider Those last 4 episodes of Clone Wars some of the best SW material ever.

Well, maybe some of the best animated SW material ever.  But it should be stressed that that is a VERY low bar.

Nah....for me I place those last 4 episodes above any of the Prequals, Solo, and Rise of Skywalker (strictly based on the huge whiff they had with not actually having Anakin Skywalker ‘rise’ to defeat Palpatine)

I get it.....you and I have different opinions on the animated series out there and even Ashoka.....but, they are just our opinions. Neither is cannon.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 17, 2020, 07:54:16 AM
Oh, Gina... why you gotta be controversial?  le sigh
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on November 17, 2020, 07:59:46 AM
Oh, Gina... why you gotta be controversial?  le sigh

I’m more disappointed that people can’t handle her having different views and are demanding she be fired.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: kaos2900 on November 17, 2020, 08:03:39 AM
Oh, Gina... why you gotta be controversial?  le sigh

I’m more disappointed that people can’t handle her having different views and are demanding she be fired.

This.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 17, 2020, 08:05:15 AM
Oh, Gina... why you gotta be controversial?  le sigh

I’m more disappointed that people can’t handle her having different views and are demanding she be fired.

Totally this. It's ridiculous. The only controversy is that she isn't toeing the Hollywood line of being a liberal. Trying to get someone fired because they don't think like you.....that's the sad state of affairs we are in these days.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 17, 2020, 08:25:33 AM
What happened?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 17, 2020, 08:29:22 AM
Oh, Gina... why you gotta be controversial?  le sigh

I’m more disappointed that people can’t handle her having different views and are demanding she be fired.

Totally this. It's ridiculous. The only controversy is that she isn't toeing the Hollywood line of being a liberal. Trying to get someone fired because they don't think like you.....that's the sad state of affairs we are in these days.

I'm with you on the 'fired' part.  I don't have a problem with people being "outraged" - frankly, I'm pissed at any anti-masker.  I should've clarified that I'm annoyed with both - cancel culture from Social Justice Warriors strikes again!  Hopefully it simmers down before Disney feels they need to take action.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 17, 2020, 08:32:25 AM
Oh, Gina... why you gotta be controversial?  le sigh

I’m more disappointed that people can’t handle her having different views and are demanding she be fired.

Totally this. It's ridiculous. The only controversy is that she isn't toeing the Hollywood line of being a liberal. Trying to get someone fired because they don't think like you.....that's the sad state of affairs we are in these days.

I'm with you on the 'fired' part.  I don't have a problem with people being "outraged" - frankly, I'm pissed at any anti-masker.  I should've clarified that I'm annoyed with both - cancel culture from Social Justice Warriors strikes again!  Hopefully it simmers down before Disney feels they need to take action.

Totally. I don't agree with what she's saying.....it's the idea that she can now lose her job and it's being begged of her to lose it.....just because she's using her freedom of speech.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on November 17, 2020, 08:49:05 AM
What happened?


Anyone?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on November 17, 2020, 08:53:20 AM
Oh, Gina... why you gotta be controversial?  le sigh

I’m more disappointed that people can’t handle her having different views and are demanding she be fired.

Totally this. It's ridiculous. The only controversy is that she isn't toeing the Hollywood line of being a liberal. Trying to get someone fired because they don't think like you.....that's the sad state of affairs we are in these days.

I'm with you on the 'fired' part.  I don't have a problem with people being "outraged" - frankly, I'm pissed at any anti-masker.  I should've clarified that I'm annoyed with both - cancel culture from Social Justice Warriors strikes again!  Hopefully it simmers down before Disney feels they need to take action.

Totally. I don't agree with what she's saying.....it's the idea that she can now lose her job and it's being begged of her to lose it.....just because she's using her freedom of speech.
I dunno, I mean freedom of speech means she can't be arrested and obviously she isn't, but it doesn't mean individual companies wouldn't consider it breaks their code of ethics/values/whatever. I don't see that as "cancel culture". I'm not saying that's the case here for Disney, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to do so. She's saying some pretty damn irresponsible stuff.


What happened?

https://www.nme.com/news/tv/fireginacarano-the-mandalorian-fans-renew-attempts-to-have-actor-removed-over-anti-mask-tweets-2817948
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 17, 2020, 08:56:47 AM
I dunno, I mean freedom of speech means she can't be arrested and obviously she isn't, but it doesn't mean individual companies wouldn't consider it breaks their code of ethics/values/whatever. I don't see that as "cancel culture". I'm not saying that's the case here for Disney, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to do so. She's saying some pretty damn irresponsible stuff.

And some rather bizarre stuff from what mrs.jingle quickly read to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 17, 2020, 08:58:39 AM
Disney should not fire her because "fans" are calling for it. BTW... I suspect many of these so-called fans don't really care about Star Wars or The Mandalorian, but are just people who love to get themselves fired up about anything and everything. If Disney deems her to be in violation of of any terms of her contract, by all means they can fire her. I'm pretty sure there's fine print in my employment stuff that anything I say on social media that potentially results in negative attention being brought towards my company can result in my dismissal.

Honestly, I'd love for Disney, or any of the other media companies going through similar things, to just come out and say "We do not fire employees because they have differing political beliefs than ours."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 17, 2020, 08:59:18 AM
Oh, Gina... why you gotta be controversial?  le sigh

I’m more disappointed that people can’t handle her having different views and are demanding she be fired.

Totally this. It's ridiculous. The only controversy is that she isn't toeing the Hollywood line of being a liberal. Trying to get someone fired because they don't think like you.....that's the sad state of affairs we are in these days.

I'm with you on the 'fired' part.  I don't have a problem with people being "outraged" - frankly, I'm pissed at any anti-masker.  I should've clarified that I'm annoyed with both - cancel culture from Social Justice Warriors strikes again!  Hopefully it simmers down before Disney feels they need to take action.

Totally. I don't agree with what she's saying.....it's the idea that she can now lose her job and it's being begged of her to lose it.....just because she's using her freedom of speech.
I dunno, I mean freedom of speech means she can't be arrested and obviously she isn't, but it doesn't mean individual companies wouldn't consider it breaks their code of ethics/values/whatever. I don't see that as "cancel culture". I'm not saying that's the case here for Disney, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to do so. She's saying some pretty damn irresponsible stuff.

This could lead to a P/R topic pretty quickly.....I get what you're saying but it's no different than the hub bub that get's stirred up when a Catholic School fires a teacher for living with someone out of wedlock or something like that. Losing your job over exercising your right(s) is BS no matter when/how it happens.

Unless Disney has some specific code of conduct that she's broken.....I don't see how they can fire her. If they do it's simply giving in yet again to the cancel culture that has ravaged our society.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 17, 2020, 09:03:14 AM
Wouldn't surprise me at ALL if Disney's employment agreements / COC has a very broad definition of conduct unbecoming of a Disney employee.  The restrictions they put on Park cast members is pretty fuckin tight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 17, 2020, 09:08:40 AM
Wouldn't surprise me at ALL if Disney's employment agreements / COC has a very broad definition of conduct unbecoming of a Disney employee.  The restrictions they put on Park cast members is pretty fuckin tight.

True. Again, I think her comments are ridiculous....for me this 'issue' is the fact that 'we' seemingly now have the power to rid people of their livelihoods just because we don't like what they say or do? It's insane.

If she's violated a contract then sure....but that begs the question.....would Disney have even cared if not for the whining?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on November 17, 2020, 09:11:45 AM
Wouldn't surprise me at ALL if Disney's employment agreements / COC has a very broad definition of conduct unbecoming of a Disney employee.  The restrictions they put on Park cast members is pretty fuckin tight.

True. Again, I think her comments are ridiculous....for me this 'issue' is the fact that 'we' seemingly now have the power to rid people of their livelihoods just because we don't like what they say or do? It's insane.

If she's violated a contract then sure....but that begs the question.....would Disney have even cared if not for the whining?

I obviously think there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. If she tweeted "LOL the holocaust was so cool, why can't more Jews die?" I wouldn't be upset with Disney firing her for exercising her 1st amendment rights.

But this? It's dumb, for sure, but it's very much on the safe side of the line.

I doubt Disney will fire her to be honest. It's just sad, to me, that so many people want to live in a world where people who disagree with you need to be silenced. Again, not an absolute, see my above example. And this is a left and right issue, just as Kaepernick will tell ya. We all need to be more open to view points we don't agree with, though I'm fine with being less tolerant to people openly spreading hatred.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 17, 2020, 09:15:53 AM
Wouldn't surprise me at ALL if Disney's employment agreements / COC has a very broad definition of conduct unbecoming of a Disney employee.  The restrictions they put on Park cast members is pretty fuckin tight.
But those are restrictions put on people as they're working. If she were spouting off about political stuff while doing interviews to support The Mandalorian when she's officially "on the clock" as a Disney employee, that's completely different than posting stuff on her personal social media accounts.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on November 17, 2020, 09:18:39 AM
Wouldn't surprise me at ALL if Disney's employment agreements / COC has a very broad definition of conduct unbecoming of a Disney employee.  The restrictions they put on Park cast members is pretty fuckin tight.
But those are restrictions put on people as they're working. If she were spouting off about political stuff while doing interviews to support The Mandalorian when she's officially "on the clock" as a Disney employee, that's completely different than posting stuff on her personal social media accounts.

Not necessarily. Plenty of public figures have clauses about what they can/cannot do in public. I dunno exactly what that looks like today, but I know it used to be a huge thing (specifically for females). I wouldn't be surprised if a family friendly company like Disney had some clauses that prevented their people from tarnishing the Disney image.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 17, 2020, 09:25:34 AM
Wouldn't surprise me at ALL if Disney's employment agreements / COC has a very broad definition of conduct unbecoming of a Disney employee.  The restrictions they put on Park cast members is pretty fuckin tight.
But those are restrictions put on people as they're working. If she were spouting off about political stuff while doing interviews to support The Mandalorian when she's officially "on the clock" as a Disney employee, that's completely different than posting stuff on her personal social media accounts.

No not really, there are rules around social media.  Not the best example, but an article a couple years old how they contract with Disney Channel stars.  https://screenrant.com/disney-stars-channel-messed-up-rules-policies-strict/

First item ... "Every Contract Comes With A Strict Morals Clause" ... "These clauses allow Disney to drop their actors like a hot potato should they get up to any embarrassing, immoral hijinks."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on November 17, 2020, 09:27:37 AM
The problem though, isn't what she said, it's how it really doesn't matter what she said IF someone can take it and make it fit the agenda.   

I don't know what she meant by the mask comment.  It MIGHT be anti-COVID mask, but the one I saw was really something somewhat different, implying  - implying, not saying outright - that there was agenda behind some of the politicizing of the COVID reponse.  That's not a controversial, nor should it be a fire-able - statement.  Even if it was an anti-mask sentiment, are we now making subjective, qualitative judgments on everything anyone says?  This is the definition of "mob mentality", because it presupposes a "right answer" for things that don't have an objectively right answer, only the flavor of the community in the moment.

Previously she wrote:
We need to clean up the election process so we are not left feeling the way we do today.
Put laws in place that protect us against voter fraud.
Investigate every state.
Film the counting.
Flush out the fake votes.
Require ID.
Make Voter Fraud end in 2020.
Fix the system.


Unless you're predisposed to assume that she means something in particular, I don't think there's anything terribly controversial there, either.   If this was 2022 (i.e. not a Presidential election year) and, say, Bill Clinton said, "we need tighter laws that protect the integrity of the vote, so we don't go through another 2020", would anyone say he was advocating for Trump's nonsense?   Nonsense!   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on November 17, 2020, 09:32:59 AM
Wouldn't surprise me at ALL if Disney's employment agreements / COC has a very broad definition of conduct unbecoming of a Disney employee.  The restrictions they put on Park cast members is pretty fuckin tight.
But those are restrictions put on people as they're working. If she were spouting off about political stuff while doing interviews to support The Mandalorian when she's officially "on the clock" as a Disney employee, that's completely different than posting stuff on her personal social media accounts.

No not really, there are rules around social media.  Not the best example, but an article a couple years old how they contract with Disney Channel stars.  https://screenrant.com/disney-stars-channel-messed-up-rules-policies-strict/

First item ... "Every Contract Comes With A Strict Morals Clause" ... "These clauses allow Disney to drop their actors like a hot potato should they get up to any embarrassing, immoral hijinks."

I don't think there's any question that Disney can fire her if they want to; the question for me is similar to the one in the Trump election thread.    Just because they can, SHOULD they?  I know for me, I try to be consistent.  I don't like what Trump is doing, but he has the right to do it, even if it's ultimately bad for the country.  I don't like it if Disney fires her, but unfortunately they have the right to do it, even if I feel it's ultimately (and indirectly) bad for the country (in terms of the divisiveness it foments).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 17, 2020, 09:36:00 AM
Back to the episode.....couple cool little things:

Loved how when Bo-Katan and the other two Mandalorians removed their helmets they made the same 'decompression' type sound that Vader's helmet made when Luke removed it in ROTJ.

The repurposed ATAT that pulled the razor crest out of the sea was cool.

The 'feel' of the fight scene on the Empire ship was reminiscent of the battles/fights in the animated series. That was cool.

The score that was playing when they showed the back shot of the Emperial Ship from behind....then the 4 Mandalorians flying up to it was pretty sinister...great mood setting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 17, 2020, 09:45:47 AM
I assume we'll learn more about how Mando's sect is different from other Mandalorians, but I was a bit disappointed that wasn't explained more than it was in the episode. I assume this isn't the end of Bo-Katan and her friends this season.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on November 18, 2020, 03:18:43 AM
Oh, Gina... why you gotta be controversial?  le sigh

I’m more disappointed that people can’t handle her having different views and are demanding she be fired.

Yeah.  I'm liberal, I'm left leaning....but the far left annoys me nearly as much as the far right.  If she ends up getting sacked over this it'll just make the nastiness/bitterness  worse.  Nothing positive can be gained from it - while I don't agree with her, like others on here have expressed, her views/opinions aren't actually that bad certainly not sackable IMO.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 18, 2020, 07:15:12 AM
Ok, watched the last 4 episodes of clone wars last night, and it definitely gave a good view of Ahsoka as a character. Really solid stuff, and some beautiful visuals, especially in the closing moments. The shot of her facing the hundred Graves of fallen clone soldiers was an  especially powerful statement of her as a character, and perfectly executed. Thanks for the suggestion Gary  :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 18, 2020, 07:40:19 AM
Ok, watched the last 4 episodes of clone wars last night, and it definitely gave a good view of Ahsoka as a character. Really solid stuff, and some beautiful visuals, especially in the closing moments. The shot of her facing the hundred Graves of fallen clone soldiers was an  especially powerful statement of her as a character, and perfectly executed. Thanks for the suggestion Gary  :tup

I’m glad you will have some context to her character. That YouTube video (I linked below) is pretty good as well. But as I said, there are clips from both animated series spliced in.....but if you did the last 4 of TCW that video may be something you’d like.


BTW.....what did you think of the score of those last four episodes? I thought it was amazing!




Reposting in case anyone missed it.....we blasted through a page talking about Gina's social media comments.....

Well, the Youtube video I've linked below does a really good job of giving an idea of 'who' she is as a character, it speaks to her close relationship with Anakin and as I said....paints a pretty good picture of her as a whole. If you're looking to 'understand' who you're about to meet on 'The Mandalorian' this would be the video to watch.

BUT......it is comprised of clips from both The Clone Wars and Rebels which makes it filled with spoilers if you plan to watch either or both those series you'll see action sequences, characters, etc etc that may surprise you and/or leave you wondering what, why and how it's happening. But it's a good 'hype' video so it may make you want to delve into Rebels and TCW's.

Anyway, here's the link but again for anyone who plans on watching TCW's and/or Rebels....you'll be exposed to images/characters from those series......so watch at the risk of being spoiled

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQKs6U8eWoQ&t=4s
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 18, 2020, 09:00:06 AM
Ok, watched the last 4 episodes of clone wars last night, and it definitely gave a good view of Ahsoka as a character. Really solid stuff, and some beautiful visuals, especially in the closing moments. The shot of her facing the hundred Graves of fallen clone soldiers was an  especially powerful statement of her as a character, and perfectly executed. Thanks for the suggestion Gary  :tup

It was also powerful seeing Vader show up months/years?? later and seemingly have a moment of reflection and perhaps regret? Really well done scene.



Also, that Ahsoka v. Maul battle was not just animated....it was motion capture technology. Really cool stuff....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mpZ_rtcUIE
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 18, 2020, 09:32:35 AM
Saw that, spent a good hour digging into her lore surrounding those episodes afterwards  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 18, 2020, 09:48:31 AM
Saw that, spent a good hour digging into her lore surrounding those episodes afterwards  :lol

gotta love getting lost in a rabbit hole every now and then.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 18, 2020, 10:57:35 AM
Saw that, spent a good hour digging into her lore surrounding those episodes afterwards  :lol

gotta love getting lost in a rabbit hole every now and then.

I'd actually love to find a high quality print of the shit of her in front of the Graves for my kid for Xmas. She loves her nerd posters and that'd be an excellent addition (she has an original star wars EP IV print personally autographed by Carrie Fischer at comic con, with like a whole paragraph of text to my daughter. She was fucking crying when she called and told me about it, cutest thing ever)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 18, 2020, 11:14:59 AM
I'd actually love to find a high quality print of the shit of her in front of the Graves for my kid for Xmas. She loves her nerd posters and that'd be an excellent addition (she has an original star wars EP IV print personally autographed by Carrie Fischer at comic con, with like a whole paragraph of text to my daughter. She was fucking crying when she called and told me about it, cutest thing ever)


(https://i.imgur.com/TYRpwQC.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/5zGdAmQ.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/Oax706s.png)


Looks like there are some good ones out there. This was a pretty quick search....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 19, 2020, 07:27:21 AM
Anyone watch the Lego Star Wars holiday special on Disney+? I thought it was pretty amusing. They poked fun at themselves several times which was funny. Not critical Star Wars cannon or anything, but it was a lighthearted fun 45 minutes or so.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on November 20, 2020, 04:35:30 AM
Since I haven't followed this thread i'm not sure what the general opinion is about The Mandalorian. I recently started watching it after waiting for some time to finish other shows and have a reason to get Disney+.
Have to say i'm pleasently surprised how much I actually enjoyed the show, not that I was dubious but it just clicked with me. It feels very Star Wars:ish (not in a negative, more like great they captured that feeling sort of way) but with a more easy narritive since you basically only follows Mando. I also love how lowkey Pedro plays him with not much talking.
The battle with the giant worm in E01S02 was just awesome, very well made.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 20, 2020, 05:33:38 AM
Anyone watch the Lego Star Wars holiday special on Disney+? I thought it was pretty amusing. They poked fun at themselves several times which was funny. Not critical Star Wars cannon or anything, but it was a lighthearted fun 45 minutes or so.

We're probably gonna fire it up for our Sunday/pizza/TV show family night.  Very much looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 20, 2020, 09:54:49 AM
Another great episode today! This show is definitely up with there with my favorite shows of all time. It certainly helps that I'm a lifelong Star Wars fanboy and love pretty much everything with the Star Wars name on it.

Have I mentioned how much I love the music? I'm listening to the scores for Ch 9-12 which was released today. I love how different it is than other Star Wars scores, but it's just Star Warsy enough to fit in the universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 20, 2020, 10:24:28 AM
Another great episode today! This show is definitely up with there with my favorite shows of all time. It certainly helps that I'm a lifelong Star Wars fanboy and love pretty much everything with the Star Wars name on it.

Have I mentioned how much I love the music? I'm listening to the scores for Ch 9-12 which was released today. I love how different it is than other Star Wars scores, but it's just Star Warsy enough to fit in the universe.

Yeah....it was really fun! As you mentioned....they're spot on with the score and the action sequences this entire series have been awesome. This season they're even better than the first.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: SoundscapeMN on November 20, 2020, 12:34:06 PM
Anyone watch the Lego Star Wars holiday special on Disney+? I thought it was pretty amusing. They poked fun at themselves several times which was funny. Not critical Star Wars cannon or anything, but it was a lighthearted fun 45 minutes or so.

I mean to, but I'm unsure if my wife would care for it, even if she enjoyed the Lego movies. She just doesn't care for anything SW.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on November 20, 2020, 06:20:21 PM
Great episode!

Impressive directing by Carl Weathers, minus a few cut frames in the action scenes. But I dug it a lot.

My fridays now consist of watching the new Star Trek: Discovery and then Mandalorian after. That way I go from disappointed to quite pleased.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ronnibran on November 20, 2020, 06:21:19 PM
Not sure how they did it, but maybe my favorite episode yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 20, 2020, 06:25:08 PM
Great episode!

Impressive directing by Carl Weathers, minus a few cut frames in the action scenes. But I dug it a lot

Just came in here to say the same. 45 mins flew by.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 20, 2020, 08:55:30 PM
Since I haven't followed this thread i'm not sure what the general opinion is about The Mandalorian. I recently started watching it after waiting for some time to finish other shows and have a reason to get Disney+.
Have to say i'm pleasently surprised how much I actually enjoyed the show, not that I was dubious but it just clicked with me. It feels very Star Wars:ish (not in a negative, more like great they captured that feeling sort of way) but with a more easy narritive since you basically only follows Mando.

Still on Season 1, and was thinking about this. Trying not to compare it to the films (different scope, budget, medium, and all....) but the show does a great job with its structure. It stays focused, it doesn't cram too much story in to one episode, it moves the plot along so that each episode is its own unique story, while still developing the overall narrative. Thinking about what Chad said, it feels like the time flies by, but not because it is trite or dull, but because the story is so focused and engrossing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 21, 2020, 12:43:01 AM
Solid episode, and it laid brilliant groundwork for the rest of the season. Really, really curious how they're gonna squeeze Ahsoka into all this now.



And that opening scene with Baby Yoda and the electric wires was just beyond adorable (bit a rip off of the Baby Groot schtick from GotG II but oh well)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on November 21, 2020, 06:43:58 AM
Another great episode today! This show is definitely up with there with my favorite shows of all time. It certainly helps that I'm a lifelong Star Wars fanboy and love pretty much everything with the Star Wars name on it.

Have I mentioned how much I love the music? I'm listening to the scores for Ch 9-12 which was released today. I love how different it is than other Star Wars scores, but it's just Star Warsy enough to fit in the universe.
Yea it's really interesting, it's diffrent yet it works so I guess the music is just good and interesting instead of a copy or a version of Williams format. I mean nobody can create the same feel as William has with his music without sounding like a copy so I think doing it diffrently but still have certain aspects left is a good approach.

How 'The Mandalorian' Score Found The New 'Star Wars' Sound (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQIcZbzr9Wk&ab_channel=Variety)

Sidenote, this tech feels so logical in a way. The benefit of having the natural light from the screen being projected onto the set seems brilliant.
Why 'The Mandalorian' Uses Virtual Sets Over Green Screen | Movies Insider (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufp8weYYDE8&ab_channel=Insider)





Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 21, 2020, 07:27:32 AM

Sidenote, this tech feels so logical in a way. The benefit of having the natural light from the screen being projected onto the set seems brilliant.
Why 'The Mandalorian' Uses Virtual Sets Over Green Screen | Movies Insider (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufp8weYYDE8&ab_channel=Insider)

The "Gallery" series on D+ goes into great detail on this in one episode.  Everyone really should watch that whole series, it was absolutely fascinating and captivating.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on November 21, 2020, 09:44:27 AM
That kid should've shared one of his cookies.  He lost the whole rest of the pack instead.  Serves him right.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on November 21, 2020, 10:01:30 AM

Sidenote, this tech feels so logical in a way. The benefit of having the natural light from the screen being projected onto the set seems brilliant.
Why 'The Mandalorian' Uses Virtual Sets Over Green Screen | Movies Insider (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufp8weYYDE8&ab_channel=Insider)

The "Gallery" series on D+ goes into great detail on this in one episode.  Everyone really should watch that whole series, it was absolutely fascinating and captivating.
:tup Will check it out!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 21, 2020, 10:11:10 AM
Solid episode, and it laid brilliant groundwork for the rest of the season. Really, really curious how they're gonna squeeze Ahsoka into all this now.

I don’t think her involvement is heavy. I think she’ll show up at the end of an episode and it’ll close with her reveal then she’ll be ‘featured’ in one. Then, that will be that with her.

I think the intention is to tease us with her and to gauge the reaction to her character to base their approach to her spin off. She’s a very tricky character to cross over from animation to live action. Bo-Katan was easy because she is human and Katee Sackhoff is an ‘action’ actress....it was a simple transition.

 Outside of her appearance, Ashley Eckstein’s voicing of her character is very distinctive so I’m really curious as to how they’ll approach that. It doesn’t have to be spot on but it needs to be close. I’m sure they can capture the look of Ashoka.....it’s the voice and mannerisms I’m waiting to see how they pull off. It doesn’t make it any easier that Ashoka’s quickness and acrobatic style of fighting will be a bear to depict in live action.

But I am excited to see this happen. I have complete faith in Filoni and Favreau that they’ll do her justice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 21, 2020, 11:26:53 AM
I wasn't aware an Ahsoka show was in the makings. That'd definitely make her a part time character for sure. I think Dawson is going to be amazing as her, especially considering she'll perfectly age Tano from the end of Rebels to the Mandalorian time. I'd imagine that they'll spin off her show from that point. As to the voice, Dawson's is a far cry from Eckstein, but she does have the look down pat. (watching Luke Cage now, and it confirms it for sure). Not worried about the action part, tech works wonders these days. Hopefully they can get the girl who did the action sequences for clone wars as her double.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 21, 2020, 11:44:15 AM
From what I’ve read Disney wants to see the reaction to live action Ahsoka to see how the fans take to her.....but that they’re dead set on doing a spin off surrounding her. There’s a ton of story to be told with her from after Rebels to Mandalorian time.

I’m sure they’ve addressed the voice sound issue. I would think since Ahsoka is essentially Dave Filoni’s baby (Lucas wanted her killed off early in TCWs) that he is going to make sure that character shines in her debut to live action.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2020, 07:49:53 PM
I'm not overly concerned about a less...athletic Ahsoka.  I mean, she will have aged a few decades, so it's kinda understandable that she won't be flipping around.  They can still have a lot of the physical mannerisms and such, but just toned down.  I like the idea of her appearing and having that connectivity, and I think having a "fallen jedi" (not the right term, but you get what I mean) who survived order 66 and has been in hiding all this time fits the mood of this show really well.  Even though having a lot of known characters kind of makes the universe seem smaller, I would much rather see her than just some unknown jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 21, 2020, 10:26:08 PM
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/126959026_10165016084565144_5283680451716591857_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=2&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=UYSzoUVAXCAAX8bvrQB&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=7b93b041708b225a2661e0ddb95dccd0&oe=5FDFC367)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Podaar on November 22, 2020, 06:02:56 AM
Outside of her appearance, Ashley Eckstein’s voicing of her character is very distinctive so I’m really curious as to how they’ll approach that. It doesn’t have to be spot on but it needs to be close.

As to the voice, Dawson's is a far cry from Eckstein, but she does have the look down pat.

Yeah, I don't think you'll get any whiff of Dawson trying to sound like Eckstein. The voice matching is a fan's concern. I'm sure Filoni is concerned with some mannerism and certainly dialog, but I doubt (for him) that the character hinges on the pitch of the actress's voice. I could be wrong.

IMO, Dawson's voice is an enormous step up anyway.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 22, 2020, 07:30:42 AM
Outside of her appearance, Ashley Eckstein’s voicing of her character is very distinctive so I’m really curious as to how they’ll approach that. It doesn’t have to be spot on but it needs to be close.

As to the voice, Dawson's is a far cry from Eckstein, but she does have the look down pat.

Yeah, I don't think you'll get any whiff of Dawson trying to sound like Eckstein. The voice matching is a fan's concern. I'm sure Filoni is concerned with some mannerism and certainly dialog, but I doubt (for him) that the character hinges on the pitch of the actress's voice. I could be wrong.

IMO, Dawson's voice is an enormous step up anyway.

Debating who has the better voice isn’t the issue. Eckstein is a voice actress....she’s made a career of it. And, her voice has become synonymous with Ahsoka. It ‘is’ Ahsoka. The patterns and fluctuations and ‘way’ she says things has made that character what she is. I can’t believe that they’ll ignore the importance of it. And, I can’t believe that (presumably) Dawson.....being the good actress she is.....wouldn’t have studied Ecksteins delivery and methods of speaking to try and emulate her in some capacity.

As far as the ‘look’ I’m 100% with you RJ, Dawson can capture it. Although my first choice would have been Carly Chaikin (she played Darlen on Mr. Robot) She captures the look as well. But I’m sure Dawson will be great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 22, 2020, 07:53:48 AM
Debating who has the better voice isn’t the issue. Eckstein is a voice actress....she’s made a career of it. And, her voice has become synonymous with Ahsoka. It ‘is’ Ahsoka. The patterns and fluctuations and ‘way’ she says things has made that character what she is. I can’t believe that they’ll ignore the importance of it. And, I can’t believe that (presumably) Dawson.....being the good actress she is.....wouldn’t have studied Ecksteins delivery and methods of speaking to try and emulate her in some capacity.

As far as the ‘look’ I’m 100% with you RJ, Dawson can capture it. Although my first choice would have been Carly Chaikin (she played Darlen on Mr. Robot) She captures the look as well. But I’m sure Dawson will be great.

This may be the case for all fans of TCW, but for casual/non-fans of TCW, it's not going to be terribly problematic.  I wonder how many watchers of The Mandalorian were full-on fans of TCW?  I get it quite possibly be a big issue for you, but for me (and others like RJ).... meh, what are ya gonna do.

Plus, voices change as we age  I know my voice isn't the same as it was 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Podaar on November 22, 2020, 08:04:01 AM
Gary, I worry that you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I get that you're highly invested in Ahsoka as a character but I think it's highly unlikely that Filoni would ask Dawson to try and sound like another voice actor. I think the best you can hope for is that Filoni would insist on certain pronunciation of words.

For what it's worth, I agree with you that the character's story arch is probably the best in the SW canon.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 22, 2020, 08:12:40 AM
Debating who has the better voice isn’t the issue. Eckstein is a voice actress....she’s made a career of it. And, her voice has become synonymous with Ahsoka. It ‘is’ Ahsoka. The patterns and fluctuations and ‘way’ she says things has made that character what she is. I can’t believe that they’ll ignore the importance of it. And, I can’t believe that (presumably) Dawson.....being the good actress she is.....wouldn’t have studied Ecksteins delivery and methods of speaking to try and emulate her in some capacity.

As far as the ‘look’ I’m 100% with you RJ, Dawson can capture it. Although my first choice would have been Carly Chaikin (she played Darlen on Mr. Robot) She captures the look as well. But I’m sure Dawson will be great.

This may be the case for all fans of TCW, but for casual/non-fans of TCW, it's not going to be terribly problematic.  I wonder how many watchers of The Mandalorian were full-on fans of TCW?  I get it quite possibly be a big issue for you, but for me (and others like RJ).... meh, what are ya gonna do.

Plus, voices change as we age  I know my voice isn't the same as it was 20 years ago.

This is very true.....and an angle I wasn’t considering. I was assuming most SW fans have invested the time to watch all the content.

I wonder what that percentage is?

Gary, I worry that you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I get that you're highly invested in Ahsoka as a character but I think it's highly unlikely that Filoni would ask Dawson to try and sound like another voice actor. I think the best you can hope for is that Filoni would insist on certain pronunciation of words.

For what it's worth, I agree with you that the character's story arch is probably the best in the SW canon.

I’m really trying to taper my expectations but as I’ve mentioned many times....she’s probably my favorite SW character so it’s difficult not to be excited and at the same time have high expectations.

I’ve seen nothing from Filoni/Favreau in this series  to indicate that I should be worried about them missing the mark with her. I’m confident they’ll do her justice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 22, 2020, 09:48:56 AM
I think the best that could/should be expected would be akin to how Mcgregor put the effort into sounding like Sir Alec.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on November 22, 2020, 10:34:35 AM
Started watching the Gallery series. Taika Waititi, he's quite the character.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: kaos2900 on November 23, 2020, 07:37:37 AM
Another great episode. Hard to believe we're half way through the season already.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 23, 2020, 07:39:52 AM
Another great episode. Hard to believe we're half way through the season already.
I know, right? Seems like we haven't made much progress toward the ultimate goal. Every episode seems to be primarily concerned about a side plot with only a tiny bit of movement made toward the main plot. Maybe that's OK. It's certainly been a fun ride so far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on November 23, 2020, 08:36:36 AM
Man I love The Mandalorian. Each episode just keeps me so entertained. Last one was great as always.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 23, 2020, 08:52:16 AM
So, is Mof Gideon just a Vader wanna be? His outfit is very Vader-esque and his quest for power (and the force) is similar? Was he like just a huge fan boy of Vader back in the day and when he was killed decided that he'd become him then?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: kaos2900 on November 23, 2020, 09:07:16 AM
I still think his desire is tied to the Empire's Contingency plan which is to revive the emperor and create The First Order (Empire 2.0). I'm think this show will really bridge the gap between Episode 6 and 7 and either tie up the loose ends of Rebels or create a jumping off point for an Ahoska show to do so.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on November 23, 2020, 10:32:01 AM
*sigh*  With all the references to Rebels, I guess I'll have to go back and give it another try.  But just the thought of slogging my way through it is giving me such a headache.  I just called it up on D+ so I could see how far into it I got last time I tried, and I apparently only got partway through S1, Ep. 4, before having to shut it off.  Man!  It was less than 4 full episodes before I couldn't take it?  How am I ever going to plow through the entire thing?  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 23, 2020, 10:59:57 AM
I still think his desire is tied to the Empire's Contingency plan which is to revive the emperor and create The First Order (Empire 2.0). I'm think this show will really bridge the gap between Episode 6 and 7 and either tie up the loose ends of Rebels or create a jumping off point for an Ahoska show to do so.
jingle.son theories (not sure if there's his own, or the interwebz's):

- the quest for blood from The Child is to be able to clone force-wielding Jedi's.  Reference to the "M-count" surely must be midichlorians.
- the subjects in the life-sized test tubes are the first iterations of Snoke.

Also, watched the Lego/Christmas special last night.  Really cute, though the trailer had left me with higher expectations.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: kaos2900 on November 23, 2020, 11:26:09 AM
*sigh*  With all the references to Rebels, I guess I'll have to go back and give it another try.  But just the thought of slogging my way through it is giving me such a headache.  I just called it up on D+ so I could see how far into it I got last time I tried, and I apparently only got partway through S1, Ep. 4, before having to shut it off.  Man!  It was less than 4 full episodes before I couldn't take it?  How am I ever going to plow through the entire thing?  :lol

The first half of the first season is easily the "worst". It gets really good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on November 23, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Not going to wade through the Rebels or side character talk just yet, but agree with everyone that said the episode was amazing again.

I love how in the last two episodes it looks like the side quest Mando goes through gets tied to the main plot line with Mof Gideon. I loved the directing for all the episodes so far, the action has been a lot tighter and very entertaining. I guess I'm ok with the 35 mins or so episode if they are all like this. Only the opening episode was about an hour.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 23, 2020, 12:11:05 PM
*sigh*  With all the references to Rebels, I guess I'll have to go back and give it another try.  But just the thought of slogging my way through it is giving me such a headache.  I just called it up on D+ so I could see how far into it I got last time I tried, and I apparently only got partway through S1, Ep. 4, before having to shut it off.  Man!  It was less than 4 full episodes before I couldn't take it?  How am I ever going to plow through the entire thing?  :lol

Really? Rebels was a far cry from TCW's as far as 'boring' in the early seasons. It's pretty action packed right off the bat. I know my brother recently binged the series in a matter of days and he commented how much more accessible and quicker paced it was. There are a bunch of cool storylines and action sequences.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 23, 2020, 12:13:17 PM
jingle.son theories (not sure if there's his own, or the interwebz's):

- the quest for blood from The Child is to be able to clone force-wielding Jedi's.  Reference to the "M-count" surely must be midichlorians.
- the subjects in the life-sized test tubes are the first iterations of Snoke.

Yeah....I think Gideon is in the early stages of a Snoke clone and looking for the Midichlorians to give him the 'supreme' power. which is interesting enough in itself.....that'd mean that Snoke's power was none other than than our cute little kids own power.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 23, 2020, 03:48:19 PM
What does everyone think the black robot looking things were? Lots of speculation that they're dark troopers (apparently something from an old video game) or that Gideon is trying to clone force sensitive forces somehow. I'm not sure how I'd feel about a Smoke tie-in, though in some ways it would be nice to have a little more explanation of who he is and how he came to be.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on November 23, 2020, 04:08:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/D79Iy7B.jpg) (https://www.cbr.com/mandalorian-fan-baby-yoda-beskar-armor/)

Almost didn't post because they call him "Baby Yoda" and not "The Child" but in the end I decided that this needed to be seen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 23, 2020, 04:42:12 PM
What does everyone think the black robot looking things were? Lots of speculation that they're dark troopers (apparently something from an old video game) or that Gideon is trying to clone force sensitive forces somehow. I'm not sure how I'd feel about a Smoke tie-in, though in some ways it would be nice to have a little more explanation of who he is and how he came to be.

This was the first thing I thought of (and jingle.son said "how do you know about Dark Troopers?" :lol).  If so, it's from Star Wars: Dark Forces (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Dark_Forces).  Played the shit out of that game (on PC) at University, and then the sequel afterwards.  There's a rumour that Kyle Katarn is going to make an appearance in the series.

The Dark Troopers were a bitch to fight/kill.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 23, 2020, 05:35:18 PM
The Dark Troopers were a bitch to fight/kill.

Good thing for Mando and the Child they’re about to hook up with one of the most powerful force users and fighters the Jedi have produced.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on November 23, 2020, 08:01:17 PM
Supposedly if you had text assistance on (I think more than just the general dialog subtitles) they were specifically identified as Dark Troopers
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on November 24, 2020, 09:17:10 AM
I like The Last Jedi.  I really do.  But since the first time seeing it in theaters, there have been things that bother me that keep me from liking it more.  Aside from my specific issues with the casino planet and the entire side quest, perhaps my biggest issue is this:  I've just never been able to escape the feeling that, in putting together the main story arc with the fleet, somebody was like, "Hey, I saw this really obscure sci-fi series that I'm sure nobody else would have seen, and they had this episode where the entire fleet of good guys is running for their lives, but the bad guy fleet found out a way to track their lightspeed jumps, and shows up every 33 minutes to try to wipe out the good guys.  I think we should do something like that.  And don't worry about people making connections between any obvious similarities.  I'm sure nobody ever saw that other show."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on November 24, 2020, 09:21:36 AM
I like The Last Jedi.  I really do.  But since the first time seeing it in theaters, there have been things that bother me that keep me from liking it more.  Aside from my specific issues with the casino planet and the entire side quest, perhaps my biggest issue is this:  I've just never been able to escape the feeling that, in putting together the main story arc with the fleet, somebody was like, "Hey, I saw this really obscure sci-fi series that I'm sure nobody else would have seen, and they had this episode where the entire fleet of good guys is running for their lives, but the bad guy fleet found out a way to track their lightspeed jumps, and shows up every 33 minutes to try to wipe out the good guys.  I think we should do something like that.  And don't worry about people making connections between any obvious similarities.  I'm sure nobody ever saw that other show."

I look forward to a similar reflection of disappointment in 2 years with The Rise of Skywalker, the film you claimed had 'nothing wrong with it'  :lol  :corn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 24, 2020, 09:30:10 AM
I like The Last Jedi.  I really do.  But since the first time seeing it in theaters, there have been things that bother me that keep me from liking it more.  Aside from my specific issues with the casino planet and the entire side quest, perhaps my biggest issue is this:  I've just never been able to escape the feeling that, in putting together the main story arc with the fleet, somebody was like, "Hey, I saw this really obscure sci-fi series that I'm sure nobody else would have seen, and they had this episode where the entire fleet of good guys is running for their lives, but the bad guy fleet found out a way to track their lightspeed jumps, and shows up every 33 minutes to try to wipe out the good guys.  I think we should do something like that.  And don't worry about people making connections between any obvious similarities.  I'm sure nobody ever saw that other show."

 :lol   So true.

I appreciated Johnson's movie much more than JJ's two. TLJ was the best of the three for me due to it being more daring with the characters, especially Luke. I get why people were turned off by it but I think what Luke did to trick Ren was a far greater display of power as a Jedi than being physically present to have a cool light saber dual....plus Luke becoming one with the Force was really well done.

But the handling of Snoke was horrible....and again, I've yet to see any reason to buy in to Rey being as powerful as she is. Nothing earned....just written with convenient little tropes.

All three movies spent more time and did a better job of showing Kylo Ren/Ben Solo's journey and that's why he was the best character from those three movies. His arc was 'earned'
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on November 24, 2020, 09:57:58 AM
I like The Last Jedi.  I really do.  But since the first time seeing it in theaters, there have been things that bother me that keep me from liking it more.  Aside from my specific issues with the casino planet and the entire side quest, perhaps my biggest issue is this:  I've just never been able to escape the feeling that, in putting together the main story arc with the fleet, somebody was like, "Hey, I saw this really obscure sci-fi series that I'm sure nobody else would have seen, and they had this episode where the entire fleet of good guys is running for their lives, but the bad guy fleet found out a way to track their lightspeed jumps, and shows up every 33 minutes to try to wipe out the good guys.  I think we should do something like that.  And don't worry about people making connections between any obvious similarities.  I'm sure nobody ever saw that other show."

I look forward to a similar reflection of disappointment in 2 years with The Rise of Skywalker, the film you claimed had 'nothing wrong with it'  :lol  :corn

If that's what you take from my posts about either movie, then I don't think you really get what I have ever tried to say about either one.  But nice job trying to troll my posts, I guess?  *shrug*

I appreciated Johnson's movie much more than JJ's two. TLJ was the best of the three for me due to it being more daring with the characters, especially Luke. I get why people were turned off by it but I think what Luke did to trick Ren was a far greater display of power as a Jedi than being physically present to have a cool light saber dual....plus Luke becoming one with the Force was really well done.

But the handling of Snoke was horrible....and again, I've yet to see any reason to buy in to Rey being as powerful as she is. Nothing earned....just written with convenient little tropes.

All three movies spent more time and did a better job of showing Kylo Ren/Ben Solo's journey and that's why he was the best character from those three movies. His arc was 'earned'

To me, the JJ films were both better.  But I still love all three, so that isn't a knock on Johnson's.  In TLJ, I loved the Luke/Rey arc.  I also really liked the chase arc, for the most part.  I just felt, and still do feel, that it just suffered from being too derivative of an iconic episode of an iconic show that, unfortunately for Star Wars, was just done better in that universe than it was in the Star Wars universe.  When something like that happens, comparisons are inevitable, and the franchise that is less successful in doing that story is inevitably going to suffer the most from the comparisons.

As far as the character arcs that you mention:

Luke:  With you 100%

Kylo:  Yeah, it was satisfying.  And I agree with you on it feeling mostly earned.  But I still felt like the motivation for him to turn around so quickly and so drastically wasn't quite set up as well as it should have been.  The event itself--that duel with Rey and then the vision of Han--was awesome.  But I needed to see more seeds of doubt in Kylo before that, and I didn't.  He went from "I want to burn it all down because...I want to burn it all down" to "welp, I guess I am Han and Leia's son after all, so..."  I dunno.  I know the pieces were there.  I just didn't feel it like I wanted to, so the turn didn't feel 100% justified.  I felt the same way about Anakin's eventual turn in ep. III:  the pieces were there, and I could intellectually understand what they were doing.  But the execution of making me feel the emotional impact justifying his turn was lacking, so I didn't really buy into it.

Rey:  I hear you.  And I'm just going to have to disagree.  Yeah, her arc didn't feel "earned."  But, to me, it didn't need to.  I'll just leave it at that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 24, 2020, 10:28:34 AM
Rey:  I hear you.  And I'm just going to have to disagree.  Yeah, her arc didn't feel "earned."  But, to me, it didn't need to.  I'll just leave it at that.

Yeah...I think we've talked about this before. I don't know....I'm not claiming to be 'right'....I just didn't connect with her at all. Cool character and it's not that I hated her....her story just didn't resonate with me like Ben/Ren's did. But whatevs....still a cool character....I'd actually love to see more of Rey now that her story isn't bound and limited by the OT.

And for the record.....I enjoyed the sequel trilogy as a whole as movies and entertainment. I just don't see how they'll ever reach the iconic status of the OT....not that then need to but I just think it was a big miss for Disney as I'm sure they were hoping for iconic status.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on November 24, 2020, 10:28:48 AM
I like The Last Jedi.  I really do.  But since the first time seeing it in theaters, there have been things that bother me that keep me from liking it more.  Aside from my specific issues with the casino planet and the entire side quest, perhaps my biggest issue is this:  I've just never been able to escape the feeling that, in putting together the main story arc with the fleet, somebody was like, "Hey, I saw this really obscure sci-fi series that I'm sure nobody else would have seen, and they had this episode where the entire fleet of good guys is running for their lives, but the bad guy fleet found out a way to track their lightspeed jumps, and shows up every 33 minutes to try to wipe out the good guys.  I think we should do something like that.  And don't worry about people making connections between any obvious similarities.  I'm sure nobody ever saw that other show."

I look forward to a similar reflection of disappointment in 2 years with The Rise of Skywalker, the film you claimed had 'nothing wrong with it'  :lol  :corn

If that's what you take from my posts about either movie, then I don't think you really get what I have ever tried to say about either one.  But nice job trying to troll my posts, I guess?  *shrug*

Can you ever just lighten up and take a joke or is there something going on that prevents you from ever taking a little good natured ribbing, good grief. Seriously haven't we had this conversation about 'taking a joke' like half a dozen times in private and public by now? I wasn't trying to troll FFS, just have fun. And you wonder why we butt heads.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 24, 2020, 10:31:03 AM
Star Wars discussion on the interwebz is SERIOUS BUSINESS!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on November 24, 2020, 10:35:56 AM
I really thought the laugh emoji would've implied some kind of frivolity but apparently I need to add a few more!!!!11

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing Ahsoka in Mando  :corn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on November 24, 2020, 01:45:07 PM
I like The Last Jedi.  I really do.  But since the first time seeing it in theaters, there have been things that bother me that keep me from liking it more.  Aside from my specific issues with the casino planet and the entire side quest, perhaps my biggest issue is this:  I've just never been able to escape the feeling that, in putting together the main story arc with the fleet, somebody was like, "Hey, I saw this really obscure sci-fi series that I'm sure nobody else would have seen, and they had this episode where the entire fleet of good guys is running for their lives, but the bad guy fleet found out a way to track their lightspeed jumps, and shows up every 33 minutes to try to wipe out the good guys.  I think we should do something like that.  And don't worry about people making connections between any obvious similarities.  I'm sure nobody ever saw that other show."
Sure, but then Star Wars films have always been pretty derivative, even the originals.

The Last Jedi is still easily my favourite of the sequel trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 24, 2020, 11:36:44 PM
I envy all those who found Kylo's story and character engrossing. It did nothing for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Polarbear on November 25, 2020, 01:49:10 AM
I like The Last Jedi.  I really do.  But since the first time seeing it in theaters, there have been things that bother me that keep me from liking it more.  Aside from my specific issues with the casino planet and the entire side quest, perhaps my biggest issue is this:  I've just never been able to escape the feeling that, in putting together the main story arc with the fleet, somebody was like, "Hey, I saw this really obscure sci-fi series that I'm sure nobody else would have seen, and they had this episode where the entire fleet of good guys is running for their lives, but the bad guy fleet found out a way to track their lightspeed jumps, and shows up every 33 minutes to try to wipe out the good guys.  I think we should do something like that.  And don't worry about people making connections between any obvious similarities.  I'm sure nobody ever saw that other show."
Sure, but then Star Wars films have always been pretty derivative, even the originals.

The Last Jedi is still easily my favourite of the sequel trilogy.

Looking back now, I too feel that TLJ is my favorite of the sequel trilogy. The Force Awakens was a fun nostalgia trip, and an effective reset button. The Rise of Skywalker was way too focused on adding unnecessary story beats and connecting dots, rather than telling a good story and finishing the saga.

The Last Jedi to me, felt most like a complete movie. I really liked how Ben and Rey challenged each other to question what they believed in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 25, 2020, 05:49:46 AM
I envy all those who found Kylo's story and character engrossing. It did nothing for me.

Same. :hifive:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 25, 2020, 08:29:37 AM
I envy all those who found Kylo's story and character engrossing. It did nothing for me.
I think his ending fell a little flat for me, but otherwise I thought he was a fantastic villain. I would have liked to see him die when when Rey stabbed him and realize the horror of what he'd done. That would have allowed Rey to be a badass and take down Palpy by herself.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ZirconBlue on November 25, 2020, 09:42:00 AM


Can you ever just lighten up and take a joke or is there something going on that prevents you from ever taking a little good natured ribbing, good grief. Seriously haven't we had this conversation about 'taking a joke' like half a dozen times in private and public by now? I wasn't trying to troll FFS, just have fun. And you wonder why we butt heads.



So. . . . you keep doing the same thing while expecting different results?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 25, 2020, 11:07:12 AM
I envy all those who found Kylo's story and character engrossing. It did nothing for me.

Same. :hifive:

I wouldn't use the word 'engrossing'. For me, his character was more developed and had more layers than Rey's. And for me.....Ren/Ben was the only character that held the three films together and Adam Driver far and away delivered the best acting of the sequel series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 27, 2020, 08:11:17 AM
Without saying too much I’ll just say I think they handled this anticipated introduction of a beloved character about as good as they possibly could have.

Another good episode and I am very pleased.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 27, 2020, 09:47:28 AM
Agreed. I'll wait until Monday to post spoilers and speculation.

The Mandalorian is quickly becoming one of my favorite shows of all time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on November 27, 2020, 09:51:24 AM
Great, great episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 27, 2020, 11:32:11 AM
Outstanding stuff, so much to unpack, so much to build off of.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on November 27, 2020, 08:38:34 PM
I'm so glad Dave Filoni wrote and directed that episode, it was entertaining through and through. What an intro scene that was! What an excellent stretch of episodes there have been. With 3 more episodes left I imagine the main storyline will converge and really can't wait.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 28, 2020, 08:56:38 AM
 :omg:  My face when Ashoka asked the question "Where is <spoiler>?>

Makes me want to go back and read the trilogy (which I did in 1990 when it was released).  Still have the books in the cupboard right beside me.

Edit ... 1992.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on November 28, 2020, 08:58:23 AM
Another great episode. When baby yoda responded to his real name, I melted! That was so cute.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 28, 2020, 10:19:25 AM
:omg:  My face when Ashoka asked the question "Where is <spoiler>?>

Makes me want to go back and read the trilogy (which I did in 1990 when it was released).  Still have the books in the cupboard right beside me.


I'm sure we were all like that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 28, 2020, 10:23:16 AM
Rey:  I hear you.  And I'm just going to have to disagree.  Yeah, her arc didn't feel "earned."  But, to me, it didn't need to.  I'll just leave it at that.

Yeah...I think we've talked about this before. I don't know....I'm not claiming to be 'right'....I just didn't connect with her at all. Cool character and it's not that I hated her....her story just didn't resonate with me like Ben/Ren's did. But whatevs....still a cool character....I'd actually love to see more of Rey now that her story isn't bound and limited by the OT.

And for the record.....I enjoyed the sequel trilogy as a whole as movies and entertainment. I just don't see how they'll ever reach the iconic status of the OT....not that then need to but I just think it was a big miss for Disney as I'm sure they were hoping for iconic status.

I'm probably just being cynical, but I'm not sure that SW movies will ever get to iconic status again. We've now had, what, eight live-action movies since the OT (?), and most of them have been rejected by large portions of the fanbase. The prequels were mocked for their acting, CGI, dialog, and pace. The sequels were mocked for having both too much and too little fan service, as well as their general indecisiveness. Then you have Rogue One, which I actually feel like people don't complain about all that much, and Solo, which a lot of people didn't even bother to see.

I think that the current situation is the result of [1] genuine screwups by the people in charge, and [2] insane expectations on the part of the fanbase that are sometimes not grounded in reality. I've had so many of conversations with people that went something like, "The sequels sucked because they just kept ripping off the original movies, because they never did anything with any of the characters, and because they were just plain dumb sometimes. Oh, and by the way, my favorite SW movie is Return of the Jedi." Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy Return of the Jedi, but if you can't find a single thing to criticize about that movie, then you've got blinders on. :lol

Unless they somehow get Denis Villeneuve to direct 10-12, with Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau as writers, I feel like we're just bound for more controversies, sadly. :'(
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on November 28, 2020, 11:30:52 AM
Yoooo. New Mando RULES.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 28, 2020, 08:05:13 PM
I’ve watched this episode four times. It’s remarkable how well Rosario Dawson captured Ahsoka’s mannerisms, the ‘way’ she speaks....it’s all there. It helps having Filoni as the director since he basically created the character.....but any of the nervousness I personally had about being able to transition Ahsoka to live action. It just makes me wish her series was ready to go like tomorrow. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 28, 2020, 08:06:12 PM
I’ve watched this episode four times. It’s remarkable how well Rosario Dawson captured Ahsoka’s mannerisms, the ‘way’ she speaks....it’s all there. It helps having Filoni as the director since he basically created the character.....but any of the nervousness I personally had about being able to transition Ahsoka to live action. It just makes me wish her series was ready to go like tomorrow.

You and every other geek in the world  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on November 28, 2020, 08:19:12 PM
Yeah I've seen that opening intro like 10 times. Such an amazing introduction. And I've not even seen the clone wars cartoons yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 28, 2020, 08:47:55 PM
I’ve watched this episode four times. It’s remarkable how well Rosario Dawson captured Ahsoka’s mannerisms, the ‘way’ she speaks....it’s all there. It helps having Filoni as the director since he basically created the character.....but any of the nervousness I personally had about being able to transition Ahsoka to live action. It just makes me wish her series was ready to go like tomorrow.

You and every other geek in the world  :lol


Yeah I've seen that opening intro like 10 times.

Makes me wonder if it'll be shared how many views this episode gets. I mean, rumor was Disney was curious to see fan reaction to a live action Ahsoka before they committed to her series. From everything I've read online it seems to be resoundingly positive. There were a few outliers on reddit that were screaming foul but I think that voice is small.

There's a 80% chance I'm going to watch it one more time tonight because like RJ said.....I'm a geek and am just stoked that they were able to pull this off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 28, 2020, 09:26:14 PM
Yeah, pretty much across the board it's being watched multiple times, at least in all the Mandalorian /Baby Yoda FB groups I'm in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 29, 2020, 04:48:24 AM
Yeah, pretty much across the board it's being watched multiple times, at least in all the Mandalorian /Baby Yoda FB groups I'm in.

Grogu.  Get it right.

When you look at the animated Ashoka (especially latter years), it's amazing how accurate they got the look of Rosario as Ashoka.  I mean, if we didn't know better, ya'd swear the animation was based off of Rosario's look.  Truly phenomenal.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on November 29, 2020, 07:29:43 AM
^Ahsoka. Get it right!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 29, 2020, 09:09:41 AM
^Ahsoka. Get it right!  :biggrin:

:lolpalm:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 29, 2020, 10:00:19 AM
Yeah, pretty much across the board it's being watched multiple times, at least in all the Mandalorian /Baby Yoda FB groups I'm in.

Grogu.  Get it right.

When you look at the animated Ashoka (especially latter years), it's amazing how accurate they got the look of Rosario as Ashoka.  I mean, if we didn't know better, ya'd swear the animation was based off of Rosario's look.  Truly phenomenal.

Funny you say that, there's actually a small scale freak out going on about his name in the same groups. It's fucking hysterical.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 29, 2020, 10:06:50 AM
(https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/127915708_1311339392592252_3677526046507705053_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=6IhU7EwAZ8EAX8AQFcN&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=c30f4202fcd285ce8ecd88c37b2b5901&oe=5FE7BAEA)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 29, 2020, 10:57:41 AM
(https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/127915708_1311339392592252_3677526046507705053_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=6IhU7EwAZ8EAX8AQFcN&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=c30f4202fcd285ce8ecd88c37b2b5901&oe=5FE7BAEA)

 :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 29, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on November 29, 2020, 03:10:28 PM
Great episode!

But I’ll be honest, Filoni could’ve used a seasoned co-director to help. It was mostly good but a fair amount looked pretty rough or video game quality. Not really a big problem but I did notice quite a bit. But overall? Loved it. Excited for more!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TAC on November 29, 2020, 04:11:49 PM
David Prowse RIP..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 29, 2020, 06:31:02 PM
(https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/128078803_10158465141935590_8581294226087016931_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=8Z9BpSQBknkAX82MlWS&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=1f70d06a997a59e6c1371700a621b166&oe=5FE8A67D)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 29, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/you-son-of-cdab61.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on November 29, 2020, 08:51:19 PM
David Prowse RIP..

Indeed, RIP OG Vader.

Lol at lonestar.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 29, 2020, 08:57:53 PM
Great episode!

But I’ll be honest, Filoni could’ve used a seasoned co-director to help. It was mostly good but a fair amount looked pretty rough or video game quality. Not really a big problem but I did notice quite a bit. But overall? Loved it. Excited for more!

Nah. The single most important thing for that episode was to transition Ashoka to live action without destroying the character and he nailed it. The gritty look was fine and worked perfectly.

I’m sure others caught the fact that Morai was there as well.....perched in a tree when they had that drawn out shot of Mando searching the burned out forest for Ashoka. And I love how Filoni used the Loth-cats running around the city when Ashoka’s question for the Magistrate was about Thrawn.....and Ezra was last seen with Thrawn and those Loth-cats and Ezra have a history. Very neat call back and tie in.

When you look at the animated Ashoka (especially latter years), it's amazing how accurate they got the look of Rosario as Ashoka.  I mean, if we didn't know better, ya'd swear the animation was based off of Rosario's look.  Truly phenomenal.

While I totally agree the look was there I never doubted they’d nail the look. That was the ‘easy’ part. I’m truly impressed at Dawson nailing her physical mannerisms like her walk, crossing her arms....her fighting stance and style....smile....it was all there. And more importantly the way Ashoka speaks and those intricacies were there. That had to be a tough thing to learn as Ashley Eckstein basically created that for Ashoka.....you can tell Dawson did her homework.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on November 30, 2020, 12:59:28 AM
Rey:  I hear you.  And I'm just going to have to disagree.  Yeah, her arc didn't feel "earned."  But, to me, it didn't need to.  I'll just leave it at that.

Yeah...I think we've talked about this before. I don't know....I'm not claiming to be 'right'....I just didn't connect with her at all. Cool character and it's not that I hated her....her story just didn't resonate with me like Ben/Ren's did. But whatevs....still a cool character....I'd actually love to see more of Rey now that her story isn't bound and limited by the OT.

And for the record.....I enjoyed the sequel trilogy as a whole as movies and entertainment. I just don't see how they'll ever reach the iconic status of the OT....not that then need to but I just think it was a big miss for Disney as I'm sure they were hoping for iconic status.

I'm probably just being cynical, but I'm not sure that SW movies will ever get to iconic status again. We've now had, what, eight live-action movies since the OT (?), and most of them have been rejected by large portions of the fanbase. The prequels were mocked for their acting, CGI, dialog, and pace. The sequels were mocked for having both too much and too little fan service, as well as their general indecisiveness. Then you have Rogue One, which I actually feel like people don't complain about all that much, and Solo, which a lot of people didn't even bother to see.

I think that the current situation is the result of [1] genuine screwups by the people in charge, and [2] insane expectations on the part of the fanbase that are sometimes not grounded in reality. I've had so many of conversations with people that went something like, "The sequels sucked because they just kept ripping off the original movies, because they never did anything with any of the characters, and because they were just plain dumb sometimes. Oh, and by the way, my favorite SW movie is Return of the Jedi." Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy Return of the Jedi, but if you can't find a single thing to criticize about that movie, then you've got blinders on. :lol

Unless they somehow get Denis Villeneuve to direct 10-12, with Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau as writers, I feel like we're just bound for more controversies, sadly. :'(

I don't really disagree with anything you wrote.  But I'm totally okay with all of that too. 

On the non-trilogy films:

R1:  One of my top 3 favorite Star Wars films, and can end up in the top spot on a lot of days.  It has a couple of glaring continuity mistakes (well, only one is a true continuity error; the other is just dumb).  But it is still fantastic.

Solo:  I went into it with pretty low expectations, and just hoped for something that barely cracked "good."  Expectations FAR exceeded.  Other than the dumb part about his name, Solo didn't really have anything to criticize.  Very good film.



Anyhow, as far as the Mandalorian, GREAT episode!  I'll have to see it again, but this may be my favorite of the entire run so far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 30, 2020, 05:58:19 AM
OK... wading into Spoiler territory now that everyone has had a few days to catch up:

Who does everyone think will be the next Jedi that they meet after going to the Jedi temple Ahsoka mentioned? Any chance we have a run-in with Luke? It would almost seem odd if he didn't at least get a mention at some point. What about Ezra Bridger? I think with the other tie-ins to Rebels he's the most obvious option.

Curious if Grand Admiral Thrawn makes his way into The Mandalorian or if that's setting up a future Ahsoka spin-off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 30, 2020, 06:55:42 AM
I think Ezra seems to be the Jedi that’d answer the call.....simply because of all of the other tie ins to the two animated series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 30, 2020, 09:25:00 AM
OK... wading into Spoiler territory now that everyone has had a few days to catch up:

Who does everyone think will be the next Jedi that they meet after going to the Jedi temple Ahsoka mentioned? Any chance we have a run-in with Luke? It would almost seem odd if he didn't at least get a mention at some point. What about Ezra Bridger? I think with the other tie-ins to Rebels he's the most obvious option.

Curious if Grand Admiral Thrawn makes his way into The Mandalorian or if that's setting up a future Ahsoka spin-off.

I'm guessing Thrawn is for the Ahsoka show, that she is done with the Mandalorian for now (maybe making an appearance for the finale but that's it).

If somehow Ahsoka does run into Luke, this has to be that scene...

(https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/128584108_10218504030138914_5427942328888913410_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=f8NSmtdm-gIAX9iPGOR&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=b2f7ca141ef729095f22bbba54c4cc20&oe=5FEAC722)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 30, 2020, 09:53:53 AM
I'm guessing Thrawn is for the Ahsoka show, that she is done with the Mandalorian for now (maybe making an appearance for the finale but that's it).

I had read a rumor over the summer that she appears in two episodes....but who really knows? I think it'd be cool for her to show back up and dispatch of those Death Soldiers (or whatever they're called) that Mof Gideon has being mobilized. Not sure Mando can handle those on his own.

No matter what....I need more Ahsoka.....like now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on November 30, 2020, 10:17:20 AM
Once again, I was quite pleased at how well the new episode held together without requiring knowledge of either animated series.  They're doing a great job of introducing the characters for those of us who've only ever seen the movies, but including things that provide some extra payoff for people familiar with the animated stuff and/or the books.  Nicely done.

On another board I visit, I'm seeing shit like "So who is this Ashoka (sic) and why's she so important?"  Answer: She's the one Bo-Katan said to find.  Not that hard to follow.  If she has greater importance than that, it's not explored here, and I never felt like I was "missing" anything by not knowing her backstory.  She's obviously a badass in her own right, and strong with The Force.  For the purpose of this story, that's all we needed to know.  I happened to know some of her backstory from discussions here, so her remarks about emotional attachments had a little more weight, but everything she said and did worked fine for me.

Same with Bo-Katan and the other Mandalorians we met a few episodes back.  I saw three Mandalorians obviously from some other sect.  When she pulled off her helmet, I thought "Whoa, this group obviously doesn't have the helmet rule" while others went "Holy shit, it's Bo-Katan!"  Then she introduced herself and the others and we were all on the same page.  Cool.

I think people just like to complain.  They're not "missing" anything; they're just whining that they don't get the extra reward that others do for knowing the other material.  Sorry, that can't be helped.  I think Filoni, Favreau and company are doing a hell of a job keeping a delicate balance.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 30, 2020, 10:22:07 AM
Totally agree. And it's not hard to do a bit of research and see what the CW fans are clamoring about, to learn a bit more about these characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on November 30, 2020, 10:22:24 AM
As someone with absolutely NO interest in Rebels/TCW/etc. I think they're doing awesome as it is
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 30, 2020, 10:30:52 AM
The meme game has been f'in gold tho...


(https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/128759427_3327956970635720_8202274297459969117_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=q07RggzEvysAX8KHn_L&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=28703c56568ce3508ca8a4f843781bb6&oe=5FEA4E10)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 30, 2020, 11:09:26 AM
Totally agree. And it's not hard to do a bit of research and see what the CW fans are clamoring about, to learn a bit more about these characters.

There are so many quick YouTube ‘catch up’ clips out there that one could spend an hour or so going through them and be caught up and ‘in the know’

You may not have the deeper attachment that those of us who watched it all have but you’d have the cool backstory



And Orbert......great post.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 30, 2020, 01:12:27 PM
Grogu 'reaches out' to surviving Jedi from the ancient temple........Luke answers the call. Mando gets Grogu to Luke......Luke enrolls Grogu in his newly formed Jedi School.....Ben Kenobi succumbs to Snoke and goes all Kylo Ren and kills all the kids at Luke's school.....including Grogu.

Thanks Kylo....you've killed the very thing that has saved Star Wars
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 30, 2020, 01:52:38 PM
Wtf no, just stop.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 30, 2020, 02:24:05 PM
Wtf no, just stop.

 :lol    I mean....I highly doubt they'd throw Luke into the mix here but it's plausible that Grogu ends up at Luke's school.....therefore.....would have been killed by Kylo Ren.


But I'd have to lean more towards the Ezra Bridger angle given all we've seen from the series so far. It seems to be tying in to a few of the animated series storylines.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on November 30, 2020, 02:34:45 PM
Friend of mine suggested they get the Winter Soldier to play Luke if he were to ever show up. I can dig that
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on November 30, 2020, 02:35:21 PM
This does bring up something that kinda bugs me (just a little) about introducing new characters in the prequels and other series such as Rebels and Clone Wars.  If they're canon, where are they in the movies?  I'll give a pass to Qui-Gon Jinn, since there was never really a time when Obi-Wan would have had occassion to mention the name of his mentor, so Qui-Gon's character arc was completely within the prequels.  But Ahsoka Tano is a beloved character, and a very important one to Anakin.  So why is there no mention of her in Episode III?

And yeah, I realize that the practical answer is "because she was invented later".  But that points out the potential issues with characters like this.  If they're so important, even if they died, you'd think that there would be some reference to them.  Instead, all these characters are absent from the movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on November 30, 2020, 02:44:05 PM
This does bring up something that kinda bugs me (just a little) about introducing new characters in the prequels and other series such as Rebels and Clone Wars.  If they're canon, where are they in the movies?  I'll give a pass to Qui-Gon Jinn, since there was never really a time when Obi-Wan would have had occassion to mention the name of his mentor, so Qui-Gon's character arc was completely within the prequels.  But Ahsoka Tano is a beloved character, and a very important one to Anakin.  So why is there no mention of her in Episode III?

And yeah, I realize that the practical answer is "because she was invented later".  But that points out the potential issues with characters like this.  If they're so important, even if they died, you'd think that there would be some reference to them.  Instead, all these characters are absent from the movies.
I dunno, movies are by their nature pretty short and to the point. At what point or in what context would you expect them to just randomly talk about other jedi not relevant to the plot.

With a long-form TV show I'd take your point, but in movies I think it's pretty normal to focus on the main plot, and references to previous episodes/whatever are normally just for fun.

And in fact Ahsoka's voice is heard by Rey in Rise of Skywalker along with various other jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on November 30, 2020, 02:50:50 PM
Fair point.

And in fact Ahsoka's voice is heard by Rey in Rise of Skywalker along with various other jedi.

Ah, that's right.  I remember reading that somewhere.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 30, 2020, 04:19:48 PM
Wtf no, just stop.

 :lol    I mean....I highly doubt they'd throw Luke into the mix here but it's plausible that Grogu ends up at Luke's school.....therefore.....would have been killed by Kylo Ren.


But I'd have to lean more towards the Ezra Bridger angle given all we've seen from the series so far. It seems to be tying in to a few of the animated series storylines.

Ya know what I'd dig... if they started pulling in other Star Wars franchises.  Like Rahm Kota from the video game The Force Unleashed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 30, 2020, 04:51:21 PM
Wtf no, just stop.

 :lol    I mean....I highly doubt they'd throw Luke into the mix here but it's plausible that Grogu ends up at Luke's school.....therefore.....would have been killed by Kylo Ren.


But I'd have to lean more towards the Ezra Bridger angle given all we've seen from the series so far. It seems to be tying in to a few of the animated series storylines.

Ya know what I'd dig... if they started pulling in other Star Wars franchises.  Like Rahm Kota from the video game The Force Unleashed.

I think they’re proving that if done properly it could work with any of these ‘side’......outside the immediate lore.....characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 30, 2020, 05:20:28 PM
Friend of mine suggested they get the Winter Soldier to play Luke if he were to ever show up. I can dig that
Mark Hamill suggested that a long time ago.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 30, 2020, 05:26:47 PM
I keep thinking about how this all ends for Grogu. Clearly he can't survive out in the open since he's not around for the sequel trilogy. I wouldn't mind The Mandalorian ending with him being dropped off at Luke's Jedi Academy. We all know what's going to happen with Ben Solo, but they don't need to show it. It would be a bittersweet ending, but honestly, most of the best Star Wars movies have bittersweet endings (Empire, Rogue One, Revenge of the Sith, Last Jedi). I also wouldn't mind Din sacrificing himself to save Grogu somehow, again with the bittersweet ending.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 30, 2020, 05:30:24 PM
I've thought that a lot myself...I can see them putting him in exile a la Luke and Lei with someone safe for a few decades while the whole 7-9 movies take place, and having him in check for future adventures if needed. Maybe a decade from now we'll all be posting "OMFG GROGU IS BACK THEY AGED HIM SO GOOD SUCH RESPECT FOR THE CHARACTER!!!" and we'll be making fun of the plebes who haven't watched Mandalorian.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 30, 2020, 05:32:48 PM
I keep thinking about how this all ends for Grogu. Clearly he can't survive out in the open since he's not around for the sequel trilogy. I wouldn't mind The Mandalorian ending with him being dropped off at Luke's Jedi Academy. We all know what's going to happen with Ben Solo, but they don't need to show it. It would be a bittersweet ending, but honestly, most of the best Star Wars movies have bittersweet endings (Empire, Rogue One, Revenge of the Sith, Last Jedi). I also wouldn't mind Din sacrificing himself to save Grogu somehow, again with the bittersweet ending.

Yeah....that is a curious thing since there was no hint of him in the sequel trilogy. But then again.....the way that species ages he may not even have been old enough to have any type of impact? One thing is for sure.....Filoni and Favreau have something mapped out. I don't think they're winging this. Until given a reason not to I'll trust them to tell this story without fear of it being a major turd.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on November 30, 2020, 05:35:02 PM
Yea, I doubt they will end it with him being killed off screen by Kylo.

I think Gary is right in that he still wouldn't be old enough to matter during the sequel trilogy. Maybe it'll lead to a new small Jedi order being formed that was kept away during the First Order stuff and can be explored in future films instead?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on November 30, 2020, 05:46:32 PM
So Ahsoka is not technically a Jedi, just as Kylo Ren was not a Sith.  It's not like using The Force automatically makes you one or the other.  And of course we have the title "The Last Jedi" although I don't remember if they ever came right out and said exactly what that means (or meant).  At the end of that movie we had Broom Boy, future spokesmodel for "Anyone Can Use The Force".  Now throw in a dash of that message we've been getting hints about for a while now: the Jedi order was kinda fucked up sometimes.

Anyway, I think it'd be cool if Grogu goes off and eventually grows up and becomes part of (or possibly starts) some new order of what might have been called Jedi, except we don't use labels like that anymore.  It's just The Force; you either got it or you don't, and baby, he's got it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 30, 2020, 06:13:43 PM
So Ahsoka is not technically a Jedi

Not by 'name'....only because she told the counsel to go F themselves after they turned their backs on her......then once Anakin proved to them they were a$$holes they wanted her back and she said thanks but no thanks. But she's more of a Jedi than say....Rey.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on November 30, 2020, 08:07:18 PM
That I believe.  I'm just saying that "The Last Jedi" (the phrase itself, not necessarily the movie) implies that there are literally no more.  Or just the one left.  Or because "Jedi" -- in English, anyway -- is both singular and plural, so it could also mean "the last Jedi, however many that is."

I'm just tossing shit out there, because the idea that Grogu would still be alive during the time of the sequel trilogy would mean that Rey was not the last Jedi, although as you point out, she wasn't a Jedi.  But hey, Luke studied with Yoda for a long weekend, a couple weeks, tops, and Rey hung out with Luke for a vague yet similarly brief time.  I don't remember Yoda telling Luke "A Jedi now, you are" yet Luke seemed to think he was.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 30, 2020, 08:16:07 PM
Cool interview with Dave Filoni and Rosario Dawson


https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/11/rosario-dawson-dave-filoni-mandalorian-ahsoka-tano-grogu
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 30, 2020, 08:26:13 PM
So, just to chime in here.... Star Wars was the definitive franchise of my youth. I wore out my VHS tapes, had a ton of toys, saw the Special Editions in the theater multiple times, including each on opening day, pre-ordered the VHS copies when they were announced, played dozens of SW video games on multiple consoles, read Expanded Universe books and drafts of the script to A New Hope, then saw Eps 7-9 in the theater.... and I have no idea who the hell Ahsoka is.  :loser:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Realm on November 30, 2020, 09:23:15 PM
Cool Chris - I love this post! I also would totally agree with everything you just said however a couple of months ago my kids made me watch some of The Clone Wars and Rebels tv shows so I'm kind of up to date with Ashoka now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 30, 2020, 10:43:54 PM
the idea that Grogu would still be alive during the time of the sequel trilogy would mean that Rey was not the last Jedi, although as you point out, she wasn't a Jedi.

I didn’t mean to imply Rey wasn’t a Jedi. Only that IMO Ahsoka has had far more training (with arguably the greatest Jedi ever AND HIS Master) and experience both in battle and wielding the force than Rey ever had. I’ve argued this with Bosk a few times......I don’t see Reys ‘achievements’ as earned.....they’re convenient and cheap when you view the sequel trilogy....more or less handed to her by wishful writing with the hopes SW fans would buy her being this ultimate Jedi without putting in the work.

There’s no comparison IMO to be had between the two because Ashoka’s on a whole different level than Rey.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2020, 07:47:33 AM
I'm just riffing.  To be honest, I don't know exactly what defines a Jedi.  If it's explained in canon, then I've missed it or forgotten it.  A Jedi isn't just someone who uses The Force.  You have to be trained.  Broom Boy wasn't a Jedi.  Blind Chinese Guy from Rogue One wasn't a Jedi.  There's the Jedi Academy or whatever it's called, so apparently you have to be trained.  As I said, Luke trained with Yoda, but I don't remember Yoda ever telling Luke that he's a Jedi.  If anything, I thought he said his training wasn't complete.  Or maybe Yoda did finish his training, because I also remember Luke saying something like "Then I am a Jedi" in a moment which was clearly supposed to be meaningful (but which kinda failed for me).

So what makes a Jedi?  It's not just someone who's Force-sensitive and trained.  Is it an official designation, a "rank" that you earn?  That would imply that you have to reach a certain proficiency level, which also implies some kind of test.  Grogu told Ahsoka that he trained with different masters for years.  We've already seen him stop the mudhorn and levitate it, block a blast that would've incinerated them, and of course steal the mint macaroons.  But that doesn't make him a Jedi.

Ahsoka considers herself a former Jedi.  She left the order (or was asked to leave, or something).  So again, it's more like a rank or title.  Then you have Jedi Master, again implying that there's some kind of evaluation, and one or more persons who grant you that title.

Again, I'm just riffing.  If this is all explained somewhere canonically, I'd love to hear it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 01, 2020, 08:19:43 AM
Don't know why Orbert's post made me think of this, but Daisy Haze knows what it takes to be a Jedi.   ;)

(NSFW).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2020, 09:52:30 AM
Was there supposed to be a link there? ???
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 01, 2020, 11:52:55 AM
Was there supposed to be a link there? ???

No. Can't.   She's an adult performer who has the Jedi symbol tattooed prominently on her lower abdomen/hip.  I'm pretty sure that makes her a Jedi, though I can't prove that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ZirconBlue on December 01, 2020, 12:14:14 PM


As I said, Luke trained with Yoda, but I don't remember Yoda ever telling Luke that he's a Jedi.  If anything, I thought he said his training wasn't complete.  Or maybe Yoda did finish his training, because I also remember Luke saying something like "Then I am a Jedi" in a moment which was clearly supposed to be meaningful (but which kinda failed for me).



In Empire, when Luke leaves Dagobah, Yoda tells him he's not ready.  When he comes back in Jedi, is when Yoda says his training is complete.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2020, 02:04:45 PM
Ah, that makes sense.  I forgot he went back for more training.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on December 01, 2020, 04:40:18 PM
Yes, being a "Jedi" means more than just being a skilled user of the light side force, and "Sith" means more than just being a skilled user of the dark side force.  Being a jedi means being a member of the jedi order. 

"The Last Jedi" was confirmed to be singular, and later was confirmed to refer to Luke.  And even though he agrees to train Rey, he is also quite clear that the jedi order itself needs to end and no longer exist.  It just gets a bit more muddy in Rise of Skywalker because she is training, basically, as a jedi under Leia and is using the jedi texts to arguably resurrect something like the jedi order.  You can chalk it up to either being intentionally vague, inconsistent writing of the sequel trilogy, or something else.  But it is what it is.

But with regard to Ahsoka, going back to the first paragraph, she is not a "jedi" because she left/was expelled from the jedi order.  Simple as that.  She is highly trained AND battle tested as a jedi (as Gary pointed out--moreso than Rey).  But isn't one simply by virtue of not being a member of the order.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
How does one officially become a member of the order?  Asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on December 01, 2020, 04:58:18 PM
I don't know that the "rules" are ever concretely explained.  But as with a lot of things in life, I think that is easier to answer when there is a fully-functioning organization in place.  We see that in the prequel trilogy.  There is a council that runs the jedi order and makes ultimate decisions.  They appear to have final say on who is in and who is out.  So basically, the jedi council admits, denies, and/or expels members.  At the end of Revenge of the Sith, the jedi order as an organization is basically destroyed.  But some masters survive.  Fast forward to Luke's training.  Even though there is no functioning organization, Yoda is one of the last surviving masters.  And he was head of the council when there was one.  It isn't clear to me whether he exercises authority as simply one of the last survivors and by virtue of his former position, or whether he is also communing with the force and other departed masters about Luke, but either way, he exercises authority to make Luke a jedi.  From the sequel trilogy, we get that Luke, as a master himself and one of the only jedi left in the galaxy, is restoring/remaking the jedi order.  He starts the jedi academy and is training others to become jedi.  So...there you go.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 01, 2020, 04:58:30 PM
How does one officially become a member of the order?  Asking for a friend.

You have to get two friends to agree to the order.....then they get two friends to join.....and so on. Once you get 100 people under you’re training you’re a Jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on December 01, 2020, 04:59:49 PM
:lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 01, 2020, 05:06:19 PM
Dave Filoni had a couple neat points about Ahsoka and her 'jedi' status in that interview I linked:


Fans have watched Ahsoka grow up on The Clone Wars, they’ve seen her go off on her own, seen her fighting as a lone wolf in Rebels. What did you want to reveal about her at this point, much later in her life?

Filoni: She is, for lack of a term, a master, because she’s largely an independent at this point. I play her much more as a knowledgeable knight. A wandering samurai character is what she really is at this point. I’ve always made comparisons to her heading toward the Gandalf stage, where she is the one that has the knowledge of the world and can help others through it. I think she’s reached that point.

How would you describe her overall journey?

Filoni: We saw her basically hit the scene as a Padawan: young, and naïve, and brash, and aggressive. Then, in Rebels, she’s more of a traditional knight, trying to figure out how to fight a war. There’s a lot of hesitation around what she wants to be and who she can be and how her life’s been guided. I think that now I’ve taken that a step further. When you see this version of the character, she’s world-weary from everything that she’s experienced and lived through. She’s seen so much happen in her time.

The episode is called “The Jedi,” but Ahsoka’s whole identity is based around leaving the Order.

Filoni: Yeah, I think something fans like about the character is that she’s rather complex. They all focus very hard on the line, “I am no Jedi,” from Star Wars: Rebels, but it’s undeniable that she’s trained by the Jedi. I think to most observers she is very Jedi to them. I would argue in some ways—by being so selfless and rejecting a lot of paths that would have given her power—she’s more Jedi-like than even some characters who claim to be Jedi.



That last sentence is what strikes home to me. At their end.....the Jedi had abandoned their 'way' so to speak.....whereas Ahsoka's journey as a character has organically shaped her into a great "Jedi" despite her distancing herself from what she had known the Jedi to have been.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2020, 05:27:24 PM
I don't know that the "rules" are ever concretely explained.  But as with a lot of things in life, I think that is easier to answer when there is a fully-functioning organization in place.  We see that in the prequel trilogy.  There is a council that runs the jedi order and makes ultimate decisions.  They appear to have final say on who is in and who is out.  So basically, the jedi council admits, denies, and/or expels members.  At the end of Revenge of the Sith, the jedi order as an organization is basically destroyed.  But some masters survive.  Fast forward to Luke's training.  Even though there is no functioning organization, Yoda is one of the last surviving masters.  And he was head of the council when there was one.  It isn't clear to me whether he exercises authority as simply one of the last survivors and by virtue of his former position, or whether he is also communing with the force and other departed masters about Luke, but either way, he exercises authority to make Luke a jedi.  From the sequel trilogy, we get that Luke, as a master himself and one of the only jedi left in the galaxy, is restoring/remaking the jedi order.  He starts the jedi academy and is training others to become jedi.  So...there you go.

This makes perfect sense.  Thank you for the well thought-out reply.


You have to get two friends to agree to the order.....then they get two friends to join.....and so on. Once you get 100 people under you’re training you’re a Jedi.

This actually sounds more doable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 01, 2020, 07:37:50 PM
Just got caught up and as a huge fan of the Clone Wars series, this last episode could not have been more enjoyable. I wasn't sure what to expect, but a full on Ahsoka featured kick-ass episode did the trick. That could not have been more satisfying as a fan. Plus, as mentioned, written and directed by Filoni. Icing on the cake.

Not to mention, the previous episode was quite awesome as well. This season is really knocking it out of the park.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on December 02, 2020, 07:39:43 PM
Just got to the end of season two of Rebels... incredible :metal :metal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 02, 2020, 07:49:01 PM
Just got to the end of season two of Rebels... incredible :metal :metal

Yes. That last episode especially was freaking epic.


I may have to watch that tonight. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on December 02, 2020, 08:10:23 PM
Yeah, that two-parter at the end is right up there with some of my favorite SW content, TV or movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 02, 2020, 09:58:42 PM
Yeah, that two-parter at the end is right up there with some of my favorite SW content, TV or movies.

Just rewatched them both. So good. Love the music when Ahsoka and Vader square off as she lights her sabers......just chilling. good stuff.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 04, 2020, 05:32:33 AM
Lots of stuff happening in today's episode. Another good one! Though unfortunately a short episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 04, 2020, 06:49:15 AM
Lots of stuff happening in today's episode. Another good one! Though unfortunately a short episode.

Yeah.... jingle.son warned me it was only 30 mins or so. 

(http://replygif.net/i/774.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 04, 2020, 07:08:23 AM
Yeah, the 30 minute episodes are tough, but I'll take whatever they give me. Beggars can't be choosers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on December 04, 2020, 07:11:46 AM
I'm kind of okay with the shorter episodes. I would like them to be longer like the season premiere but they're so good and concise regardless that by the end of each episode I don't even care how long it's been. That's the sign of a good show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 04, 2020, 08:54:40 AM
yeah, the benefit is there is no bloat to them, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on December 04, 2020, 09:17:05 AM
Grogu gonna be bloated if he keeps eating everything in sight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on December 04, 2020, 09:28:48 AM
The episode lengths are absolutely fine, there's not been one that's felt rushed or like it needed to be developed more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on December 04, 2020, 11:01:16 AM
The episode lengths are absolutely fine, there's not been one that's felt rushed or like it needed to be developed more.

Same. While I always want more in theory, I never finish one thinking they rushed anything.

This weeks episode was fan-freakin-tastic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on December 04, 2020, 12:17:11 PM
Yeah, that's one thing I like about streaming shows is the way they're not bound to a standard running time. One of my favorite teachers in high school was an English teacher who never put page limits on the papers he assigned We were always simply instructed to "write until you've satisfactorily addressed the topic at hand", and it's nice when shows can take that approach.

But yeah, another great episode this week.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Walrus on December 04, 2020, 12:52:05 PM
Yeah, that's one thing I like about streaming shows is the way they're not bound to a standard running time. One of my favorite teachers in high school was an English teacher who never put page limits on the papers he assigned We were always simply instructed to "write until you've satisfactorily addressed the topic at hand", and it's nice when shows can take that approach.

But yeah, another great episode this week.

That is something none of my English teachers have ever done and I really wish they had. A mandatory page length just makes so many problems.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 04, 2020, 02:10:17 PM
Goddamn what a good episode. The Baby Yoda Facebook pages are going to lose their shit this weekend.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on December 04, 2020, 07:22:59 PM
A tragedy this was the shortest episode of the series so far. But it packed so much! Not a second wasted. Down to the final two and am sensing even greater things to come.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 04, 2020, 07:37:10 PM
A tragedy this was the shortest episode of the series so far. But it packed so much! Not a second wasted. Down to the final two and am sensing even greater things to come.

Precisely.  So much happened tonight.  So good.  I said to jingle.son last week everything is coming together for one epic bru-ha at the end.  It'll be like the Star Wars equivalent of the Battle of the Five Armies.  But good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 04, 2020, 07:56:47 PM
A tragedy this was the shortest episode of the series so far. But it packed so much! Not a second wasted. Down to the final two and am sensing even greater things to come.

Precisely.  So much happened tonight.  So good.  I said to jingle.son last week everything is coming together for one epic bru-ha at the end.  It'll be like the Star Wars equivalent of the Battle of the Five Armies.  But good.

Yeah. Really good episode.

I don’t mind the shorter episodes either. I think they work.....but I just want more cuz it’s so good. Gimme more than 8 episodes then or something.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 04, 2020, 08:34:42 PM
Definitely action-packed, plus plenty of other-than-action, and because of that it didn't feel short to me at all.  Lots of good stuff.  No complaints.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 05, 2020, 08:17:34 AM
I will say that this week's episode is the first one that I found myself thinking "no!" when it ended. It had been so packed full of great stuff that I didn't want it to end.

SPOILERS, reaction and speculation below!!:

Still not sure how I feel about Boba Fett being officially back. Plus he's like an honorable guy now, which just seems weird.
I loved the Razor Crest and am sad to see it destroyed. I thought it was a great ship.
I wish we'd have seen the Dark Troopers in fighting action, but I'm sure we'll see that before the season ends.
I love how storm troopers still can't hit shit, except for Din, who doesn't give a shit because of his Beskar armor (even though there are tons of gaps).
It's gotta be Ezra Bridger who senses Grogu's force calling and comes to the rescue, right?
I'd still love to see Luke at some point have a small cameo.
I predicted a year or so ago that the Empire remnants want Grogu for their Snoke clone, and am doubling down on that prediction after last week's episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 05, 2020, 09:50:06 AM
I will say that this week's episode is the first one that I found myself thinking "no!" when it ended. It had been so packed full of great stuff that I didn't want it to end.

SPOILERS, reaction and speculation below!!:

Still not sure how I feel about Boba Fett being officially back. Plus he's like an honorable guy now, which just seems weird.
I loved the Razor Crest and am sad to see it destroyed. I thought it was a great ship.
I wish we'd have seen the Dark Troopers in fighting action, but I'm sure we'll see that before the season ends.
I love how storm troopers still can't hit shit, except for Din, who doesn't give a shit because of his Beskar armor (even though there are tons of gaps).
It's gotta be Ezra Bridger who senses Grogu's force calling and comes to the rescue, right?
I'd still love to see Luke at some point have a small cameo.
I predicted a year or so ago that the Empire remnants want Grogu for their Snoke clone, and am doubling down on that prediction after last week's episode.

I love how the Stormtrooper's ships were fucking clown cars, how many of those fuckers were crammed into those things  :lol

The ending was crushing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 05, 2020, 10:32:20 AM
I will say that this week's episode is the first one that I found myself thinking "no!" when it ended. It had been so packed full of great stuff that I didn't want it to end.

SPOILERS, reaction and speculation below!!:

Still not sure how I feel about Boba Fett being officially back. Plus he's like an honorable guy now, which just seems weird.
I loved the Razor Crest and am sad to see it destroyed. I thought it was a great ship.
I wish we'd have seen the Dark Troopers in fighting action, but I'm sure we'll see that before the season ends.
I love how storm troopers still can't hit shit, except for Din, who doesn't give a shit because of his Beskar armor (even though there are tons of gaps).
It's gotta be Ezra Bridger who senses Grogu's force calling and comes to the rescue, right?
I'd still love to see Luke at some point have a small cameo.
I predicted a year or so ago that the Empire remnants want Grogu for their Snoke clone, and am doubling down on that prediction after last week's episode.

I love how the Stormtrooper's ships were fucking clown cars, how many of those fuckers were crammed into those things  :lol

The ending was crushing.
Yeah, that was pretty hilarious with the clown car thing.

Honestly, I let out an audible "oh no" when I saw "The Tragedy" at the beginning. Yes, the end was crushing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 05, 2020, 10:49:41 AM
I will say that this week's episode is the first one that I found myself thinking "no!" when it ended. It had been so packed full of great stuff that I didn't want it to end.

SPOILERS, reaction and speculation below!!:

Still not sure how I feel about Boba Fett being officially back. Plus he's like an honorable guy now, which just seems weird.
I loved the Razor Crest and am sad to see it destroyed. I thought it was a great ship.
I wish we'd have seen the Dark Troopers in fighting action, but I'm sure we'll see that before the season ends.
I love how storm troopers still can't hit shit, except for Din, who doesn't give a shit because of his Beskar armor (even though there are tons of gaps).
It's gotta be Ezra Bridger who senses Grogu's force calling and comes to the rescue, right?
I'd still love to see Luke at some point have a small cameo.
I predicted a year or so ago that the Empire remnants want Grogu for their Snoke clone, and am doubling down on that prediction after last week's episode.

I love how the Stormtrooper's ships were fucking clown cars, how many of those fuckers were crammed into those things  :lol

The ending was crushing.
Yeah, that was pretty hilarious with the clown car thing.

Honestly, I let out an audible "oh no" when I saw "The Tragedy" at the beginning. Yes, the end was crushing.

Me too  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 05, 2020, 11:26:12 AM
I will say that this week's episode is the first one that I found myself thinking "no!" when it ended. It had been so packed full of great stuff that I didn't want it to end.

SPOILERS, reaction and speculation below!!:

Still not sure how I feel about Boba Fett being officially back. Plus he's like an honorable guy now, which just seems weird.
I loved the Razor Crest and am sad to see it destroyed. I thought it was a great ship.
I wish we'd have seen the Dark Troopers in fighting action, but I'm sure we'll see that before the season ends.
I love how storm troopers still can't hit shit, except for Din, who doesn't give a shit because of his Beskar armor (even though there are tons of gaps).
It's gotta be Ezra Bridger who senses Grogu's force calling and comes to the rescue, right?
I'd still love to see Luke at some point have a small cameo.
I predicted a year or so ago that the Empire remnants want Grogu for their Snoke clone, and am doubling down on that prediction after last week's episode.

So far, most Bounty Hunters have been portrayed as being honorable.  I've got no problem in how his character was depicted.  And, they conveniently got around the issue of him removing his helmet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 05, 2020, 11:28:08 AM
I've never understood the rationale of troops wearing wearing that doesn't actually protect you.  That armor that basically looks like white plastic (and probably is IRL) doesn't do shit.  Dozens of storm troopers, can't hit the side of a mountain with a blaster, all getting cut down by Fennec and Boba just calmly picking them off.  It was hilarious, true, but eventually you could tell that they'd win by sheer force of numbers.  When that second clown car ship came down, we knew how it was going to turn out.

I loved it when Gideon went to see Grogu, and as the doors open Grogu is bouncing a few troopers off the walls.  The two troopers with Gideon started to do something but Gideon was like "Hang on a sec, this is funny, I wanna watch just a little more."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jammindude on December 05, 2020, 11:40:29 AM
I've never understood the rationale of troops wearing wearing that doesn't actually protect you.  That armor that basically looks like white plastic (and probably is IRL) doesn't do shit.  Dozens of storm troopers, can't hit the side of a mountain with a blaster, all getting cut down by Fennec and Boba just calmly picking them off.  It was hilarious, true, but eventually you could tell that they'd win by sheer force of numbers.  When that second clown car ship came down, we knew how it was going to turn out.

I loved it when Gideon went to see Grogu, and as the doors open Grogu is bouncing a few troopers off the walls.  The two troopers with Gideon started to do something but Gideon was like "Hang on a sec, this is funny, I wanna watch just a little more."

I took that as a “Yes...let go of your anger”, and I’m wondering if he wants to train him to be Sith.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 05, 2020, 12:49:20 PM
I will say that this week's episode is the first one that I found myself thinking "no!" when it ended. It had been so packed full of great stuff that I didn't want it to end.

SPOILERS, reaction and speculation below!!:

Still not sure how I feel about Boba Fett being officially back. Plus he's like an honorable guy now, which just seems weird.
I loved the Razor Crest and am sad to see it destroyed. I thought it was a great ship.
I wish we'd have seen the Dark Troopers in fighting action, but I'm sure we'll see that before the season ends.
I love how storm troopers still can't hit shit, except for Din, who doesn't give a shit because of his Beskar armor (even though there are tons of gaps).
It's gotta be Ezra Bridger who senses Grogu's force calling and comes to the rescue, right?
I'd still love to see Luke at some point have a small cameo.
I predicted a year or so ago that the Empire remnants want Grogu for their Snoke clone, and am doubling down on that prediction after last week's episode.

So far, most Bounty Hunters have been portrayed as being honorable.  I've got no problem in how his character was depicted.  And, they conveniently got around the issue of him removing his helmet.

Yeah. I liked how they’ve added that element to his character......and it’s more in line with the way Mando handles himself so it seems it’s most likely a common trait of Mandalorians/bounty hunters.

It was neat to see his character expanded in that way......and it was cool to see him be such a bad a$$ as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 05, 2020, 02:34:29 PM
I loved it when Gideon went to see Grogu, and as the doors open Grogu is bouncing a few troopers off the walls.  The two troopers with Gideon started to do something but Gideon was like "Hang on a sec, this is funny, I wanna watch just a little more."

I took that as a “Yes...let go of your anger”, and I’m wondering if he wants to train him to be Sith.

I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense.  I think getting his blood for the "M-count" is the primary objective, but it's always good to keep an eye open for new recruits.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 05, 2020, 03:07:01 PM
I loved it when Gideon went to see Grogu, and as the doors open Grogu is bouncing a few troopers off the walls.  The two troopers with Gideon started to do something but Gideon was like "Hang on a sec, this is funny, I wanna watch just a little more."

I took that as a “Yes...let go of your anger”, and I’m wondering if he wants to train him to be Sith.

I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense.  I think getting his blood for the "M-count" is the primary objective, but it's always good to keep an eye open for new recruits.

I think he was just fascinated but is strictly after the blood/M count. I doubt he has plans to keep Grogu alive.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 05, 2020, 06:37:54 PM
At the very beginning, "Mando" took the bounty warm or cold.  But IG-11 (the assassin droid) had orders to kill the child and bring it back cold.  That led to some speculation that there was more than one contract on the child, more than one interested party.  I wonder if they'll follow up on that.  It seems harvesting the blood would be a bit more problematic if the donor is cold.  If Grogu's blood does turn out to useable as a resource, wouldn't it make sense to keep your supply alive, your golden goose as it were?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 08, 2020, 09:44:43 AM
So....with all the speculation as to which Jedi 'heard' Grogu's 'call'.......what is everyone thinking? I think the most plausible would be Ezra considering the characters we've seen come into the series BUT that'd seemingly take away a huge plot driver in a spinoff Ahsoka series. Unless they just supersede her trying to find Ezra and make it all about finding and taking out Thrawn.

They could bring in Cal Kestis I suppose? But I don't know how popular he is outside of the gaming community.

Or, if it is Luke....can the fans get past it not being Mark Hamill who plays Luke? Luke would need to be younger and I've seen/read a TON of fan speculation/theories that Sebastian Stan could pull off playing a young Luke, Hamill himself has supported the idea. So, could 'you' accept someone else playing Luke Skywalker? I think Stan could pull it off but Hamill IS Luke Skywalker much like Ford IS Han Solo....so, it'd be an interesting transition.


(https://i.imgur.com/vwNV3kw.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 08, 2020, 09:58:34 AM
Wow that's scary.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on December 08, 2020, 10:00:11 AM
As far as who it would be, I would almost prefer it being someone we don't know about.  I think we have enough connective tissue to the "known" Star Wars universe.  But that said, it doesn't matter, as long as it is done well, and almost everything about this series has been done well.

You are right that Hammill IS Luke.  Such an iconic portrayal of a character that it is hard to imagine anyone else in that role.  But that said, I would have said the same thing about anyone but Harrison Ford playing Han before I saw Solo, and that was done well enough that I was able to suspend belief and enjoy it.  And not that Stan couldn't do it, but I just have to say, it is obvious that there was some doctoring done to those photos to try to make the case. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 08, 2020, 11:35:10 AM
Wow.  In general, I'm not a fan of recasting iconic characters like that, but the resemblance is pretty amazing.  Obviously Hamill could not pull it off today, and it would be better than a computer-generated Luke or something like that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 08, 2020, 11:54:15 AM
As far as who it would be, I would almost prefer it being someone we don't know about.  I think we have enough connective tissue to the "known" Star Wars universe.  But that said, it doesn't matter, as long as it is done well, and almost everything about this series has been done well.

This is where I'm at. I like the distancing from the OT. There seems to be constraints or boundaries placed on the story when trying to adhere to the OT lore and legend. I like the freedom introducing 'new' characters gives them. (even if the new characters are from the two animated series...they aren't as universally 'known')
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 08, 2020, 01:14:21 PM
I'm all in on it being someone new. Or at least not a major Jedi, just someone maybe we saw in passing previously who managed to survive order 66.

I think Luke has to get involved or be at least mentioned at some point. They can digitally deage Hamill. That tech is pretty good these days. I'd rather they do that that recast.

Yoda's force ghost would be another option. I wouldn't be totally opposed to it, but it would likely be him telling Din to seek out another surviving master.

I've seen speculation that Mace Window survived his fall in RotS and could be the one to answer the call. That would be kind of cool to see him again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 08, 2020, 01:40:44 PM
Personally I hope they never give in to the Samuel L Jackson wish that Mace survived and somehow shoehorn him into any future stories. He wasn’t all that good of a character.....in the prequels and in TCW’s. He was pompous and annoying and everything that was wrong with the Jedi order.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 08, 2020, 03:29:07 PM
Personally I hope they never give in to the Samuel L Jackson wish that Mace survived and somehow shoehorn him into any future stories. He wasn’t all that good of a character.....in the prequels and in TCW’s. He was pompous and annoying and everything that was wrong with the Jedi order.
It would only be good if he was now a more humble, yet still badass Jedi. But I tend to agree with you.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on December 10, 2020, 04:39:00 PM
Looks like a TON of new Star Wars stuff is currently being announced.

Ahsoka show. Obi Wan show with Hayden as Vader. Casian Andor show. Rangers of the new republic show. A movie by Patty Jenkins and some more I can’t keep up with.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 11, 2020, 12:18:39 AM
(https://i.redd.it/6e2l57s93g461.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 11, 2020, 05:25:55 AM
The future of Star Wars is looking bright. Super excited for all of that! The only thing I would have loved to see is a Solo series to wrap up the planned story arc of the movie, but oh well...

The Rogue Squadron movie coming from the director of Wonder Woman  sounds intriguing to me. Looking forward to seeing what she can do in the Star Wars universe. And its nice to see they haven't given up on theatrical (if they still exist) movie releases.

Oh and another great episode of the Mandelorian today!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 11, 2020, 06:18:43 AM
I'm intrigued with The Acolyte.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 11, 2020, 06:21:16 AM
I'm intrigued with The Acolyte.
Me too. I'd love to see them explore time periods outside of what we're familiar with. Hopefully this will be the launch pad for more exploration of that time in Star Wars history.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 11, 2020, 07:54:42 AM
Very interesting stuff indeed!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 11, 2020, 01:24:37 PM
Another outstanding episode... Gideon is so fucked when Mando gets his hands on him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 11, 2020, 01:30:11 PM
Another outstanding episode... Gideon is so fucked when Mando gets his hands on him.
That ending was badass.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 11, 2020, 01:45:52 PM
Another outstanding episode... Gideon is so fucked when Mando gets his hands on him.
That ending was badass.

I almost felt sorry for him... Almost
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 13, 2020, 09:52:53 AM
Knowing that even in the Empire they have to deal with TPS Reports. Someone on Twitter made mention of Moff Lumberg. So awesome.

Wondering if that was a Bill Burr ad-lib or if that was in the script.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 13, 2020, 11:28:14 AM
The Bad Batch trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BohgNFBR2eE
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on December 13, 2020, 12:04:38 PM
Someone on Twitter made mention of Moff Lumberg. So awesome.

 :lol Are there Moff Bobs too?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2020, 12:12:18 PM
The Bad Batch trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BohgNFBR2eE

this series has quite a bit of potential. The cool think is that there is no 'set' way it has to go. It could take a number of directions.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on December 15, 2020, 12:33:13 PM
For very good reason, it seems the investor day stuff has greatly overshadowed any talk of the recent Mando episode.

Can I just say that I loved this episode oh so much? This has been a great season. However, you can drop Ahsoka into a mediocre episode and it will be great because she's there. You can drop Boba into a mediocre episode and it'll be great cause he's there. Luckily, they didn't do this, but having those huge moments makes it a little easier. But this last episode had no big reveals. No Ahsoka or new Jedi. A little Boba Fett, but not a ton. Hell, not even any Grogu. And yet what we got was such a well written episode that it really needed to work harder because it lacked any of the things that naturally elevate it without effort.

I did not see Mando maskless coming. I am not a huge Bill Burr fan, but that one Tarantino scene in the mess hell was one of the best scenes of the whole show. Nothing flashy, nothing huge, nothing that makes hard core fans say "HOLY CRAP I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY DID THAT". Just three characters have a fantastic scene with amazing dialogue and acting.

Yea, I thought the last episode was among the best and I'm both excited and sad to see the last episode this week.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on December 15, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
Yeah great episode, and the little callback to Attack of the Clones with Boba Fett's depth charge was a nice touch. I too loved that Tarantino-esque cafeteria scene. Again not a second of the episode wasted. Can't wait for the finale. I'm a little glad they've already announced that season 3 will be released Christmas next year.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on December 15, 2020, 01:25:18 PM
I wasn't as crazy about it, or more specifically everything around Mando removing his mask. Firstly, what was even the point of the imperial terminal doing a face scan if it's not going to sound an alarm when a face that doesn't work for the Empire is on the receiving end? Secondly, to build it up for almost two seasons only to have the face reveal happen in front of a bunch of imperial soldiers and Mayfield... a little random. Thirdly, given how dogmatically loyal Mando has been to The Way(tm), for him to basically just go back to normal afterwards, what because Mayfield pinky swore that he wouldn't tell? None of it really worked for me.

That aside, the action sequence with the pirates was awesome, as was the "Tarantino" scene in the mess hall.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 15, 2020, 01:52:12 PM
I wasn't as crazy about it, or more specifically everything around Mando removing his mask. Firstly, what was even the point of the imperial terminal doing a face scan if it's not going to sound an alarm when a face that doesn't work for the Empire is on the receiving end? Secondly, to build it up for almost two seasons only to have the face reveal happen in front of a bunch of imperial soldiers and Mayfield... a little random. Thirdly, given how dogmatically loyal Mando has been to The Way(tm), for him to basically just go back to normal afterwards, what because Mayfield pinky swore that he wouldn't tell? None of it really worked for me.


Bill.... I'm with you entirely on this.  I was fully expecting Mando to pop a cap in Mayfeld after they landed.  No one lives who's seen a Mandalorian.  I get the message Mayfeld was pitching, but I'm still not on board with it.  And then for Mayfeld to walk into the cafeteria and bail him out ... shit, he was too petrified to walk in there (in fear of blowing the mission) just 90 seconds earlier.  The entire setup to the 3 of them having drinks was a weak plot point, imo.

I also don't buy that Mando is willing to accept there are other WaysTM (ala Bo-Katan).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on December 15, 2020, 01:56:06 PM
I think he was willing to do it for Grogu. He recognized that saving Grogu was more important than strict adherence to "the way" especially after being challenged by both Starbuck and Boba.

And I didn't have any issues with Bill Burr going in there after being scared. He was being brave when the time came. I thought it was great.

I will grant you the oddness of needing a face scan that serves no purpose. Unless, I guess, Mando once worked for the Empire and thus his face was recognized? I dunno.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on December 15, 2020, 02:06:54 PM
Firstly, what was even the point of the imperial terminal doing a face scan if it's not going to sound an alarm when a face that doesn't work for the Empire is on the receiving end?
That did seem odd, especially as it wasn't explained, but I can see plausible explanations. Rather than match up to a database (do they even have databases like that in this era of the SW universe?), it might be needed to simply ensure there's a record of the person's face for later on. Or it might only be accessible for humans. I'm relaxed about there being reasonable explanations but I agree it's a bit weird that they didn't provide one.

Quote
Secondly, to build it up for almost two seasons only to have the face reveal happen in front of a bunch of imperial soldiers and Mayfield... a little random.
He's shown his face before, in the season 1 finale.

Quote
Thirdly, given how dogmatically loyal Mando has been to The Way(tm), for him to basically just go back to normal afterwards, what because Mayfield pinky swore that he wouldn't tell?
I'm with Adami on this one. In terms of Mando's journey in the show so far, there have been two big story arcs. One, his affection and responsibility for Grogu. And two, learning this season that perhaps The Way isn't the only way, and that even the rightful heiress of Mandalore shows her face. That doesn't mean he just abandons his old ways entirely and never wears a mask anymore, clearly, as he puts it back on again. But it's the combination of these two arcs that leads to him being willing to take his mask off in order to save Grogu.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 15, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
I think he was willing to do it for Grogu. He recognized that saving Grogu was more important than strict adherence to "the way" especially after being challenged by both Starbuck and Boba.

And I didn't have any issues with Bill Burr going in there after being scared. He was being brave when the time came. I thought it was great.

I will grant you the oddness of needing a face scan that serves no purpose. Unless, I guess, Mando once worked for the Empire and thus his face was recognized? I dunno.

Agree with all this. For me, the largest issue of the episode is that the Empire couldn't somehow protect a small stretch of road to and from their mining source to plant? They have tie fighters on hand but wait until the final 100 yards to deploy them AFTER two transports have already been blown up? Not having better security on the road was a far bigger stretch than Mando deciding he loves Grogu more than adhering to a 'way' of life he recently discovered may or may not be legit anyway?

Second smaller issue is that the green that Boba Fett updated his armor with is a different hue than the OT traditional color it once was.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 17, 2020, 04:23:23 PM
Last episode tomorrow. Any predictions?

I think Ezra Bridger answers Grogu's call. I think Ahsoka and Bo-Katan make appearances as well. Then all three fly off to the next soundstage to film the Ahsoka show and hunt down Thrawn.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2020, 05:47:44 PM
Last episode tomorrow. Any predictions?

I think Ezra Bridger answers Grogu's call. I think Ahsoka and Bo-Katan make appearances as well. Then all three fly off to the next soundstage to film the Ahsoka show and hunt down Thrawn.

I do think Ahsoka and Bo-Katan will be part of the rescue. I think Ezra makes the most sense story wise to be the Jedi that answers the call but who’s to say that’s even a reveal this season?

I just hope it’s more than a half hour episode. I’d like to get a 45-50 to close this out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on December 17, 2020, 05:51:05 PM
The show has been pretty good at not being predictable. So I dunno if any extra Jedi will show up. Maybe that’s a season 3 thing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 17, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
Last episode tomorrow. Any predictions?

I think Ezra Bridger answers Grogu's call. I think Ahsoka and Bo-Katan make appearances as well. Then all three fly off to the next soundstage to film the Ahsoka show and hunt down Thrawn.

I do think Ahsoka and Bo-Katan will be part of the rescue. I think Ezra makes the most sense story wise to be the Jedi that answers the call but who’s to say that’s even a reveal this season?

I just hope it’s more than a half hour episode. I’d like to get a 45-50 to close this out.

Agreed... there's so much to bring together.  I can't see that Olyphant's character doesn't somehow show up as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on December 17, 2020, 09:46:23 PM
Before we're all talking about the finale, I'll just say that I was expecting (and totally onboard with in a general sense) the idea that Mando would eventually sacrifice The Way in the name of saving Grogu. I just thought the way it ended up unfolding was dumb/underhwhelming. It should have been a big moment, there should have been some immediate stakes, and someone closer to Mando should have been the one there to see it happen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Realm on December 18, 2020, 03:20:44 AM
I loved the Mando finale. It was gripping and overall I thought the reveal was pretty well done - wasn’t perfect but it worked for me. I won’t spoil anything as yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2020, 05:24:46 AM
I loved it. Amazing.

FYI, there's a post credit scene
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on December 18, 2020, 06:24:09 AM
You guys


YOU GUYS
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on December 18, 2020, 07:05:29 AM
Oh damn.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2020, 07:24:35 AM
Ya know... I love that this is a TV series and being able to watch it from home is great, but I kinda wish I were watching it in a theater with a bunch of other people. There would have been a bunch of moments this season where people would have been cheering, laughing, etc aloud with each other. I wanted to cheer out loud this morning watching the finale. I miss that collective watching experience that you get in the theater.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on December 18, 2020, 07:53:41 AM
I know exactly what you mean. I made a point of seeing Endgame a second time opening weekend just to see it in that kind of atmosphere again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 18, 2020, 08:20:48 AM
Holy fucking shit  :omg:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 18, 2020, 08:32:24 AM
Ya know... I love that this is a TV series and being able to watch it from home is great, but I kinda wish I were watching it in a theater with a bunch of other people. There would have been a bunch of moments this season where people would have been cheering, laughing, etc aloud with each other. I wanted to cheer out loud this morning watching the finale. I miss that collective watching experience that you get in the theater.

I feel bad saying this, because I wouldn't want to "plant the seed" in your brain; I know this is all me and it's something I have to deal with not you, but I HATE the cheering and laughing and whatnot in a theater.  Not so much laughing; I get that, when a picture is supposed to be funny, that's a natural reaction.  But with some of the "big moments" in films, I kind of have a STFU and let me watch the film kind of attitude, I think because I don't get the same level of satisfaction that it seems most people get from those obvious sort of "redemption"/"revenge" moments that are so prevalent in films these days.   It's very rare that I watch a film or TV show with a desired outcome in mind, at least to the point that I would cheer when it happens.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2020, 08:38:52 AM
Ya know... I love that this is a TV series and being able to watch it from home is great, but I kinda wish I were watching it in a theater with a bunch of other people. There would have been a bunch of moments this season where people would have been cheering, laughing, etc aloud with each other. I wanted to cheer out loud this morning watching the finale. I miss that collective watching experience that you get in the theater.

I feel bad saying this, because I wouldn't want to "plant the seed" in your brain; I know this is all me and it's something I have to deal with not you, but I HATE the cheering and laughing and whatnot in a theater.  Not so much laughing; I get that, when a picture is supposed to be funny, that's a natural reaction.  But with some of the "big moments" in films, I kind of have a STFU and let me watch the film kind of attitude, I think because I don't get the same level of satisfaction that it seems most people get from those obvious sort of "redemption"/"revenge" moments that are so prevalent in films these days.   It's very rare that I watch a film or TV show with a desired outcome in mind, at least to the point that I would cheer when it happens.
I get that. Most of the moments when I feel like cheering are fan service moments, but I often don't give a crap.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: masterthes on December 18, 2020, 09:48:50 AM
Can't wait for next season. I also find it interesting a certain some one hasn't posted on Twitter yet today. I bet he got bombarded with messages
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on December 18, 2020, 09:49:58 AM
Holy shit what a finale. I am very whelmed. over and extremely whelmed.

I will just say one thing about the episode. It had hands down the best music in an episode throughout the entire series. It really helped add to the atmosphere of the entire episode.

Just phenomenal.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 18, 2020, 09:53:35 AM
Holy shit what a finale. I am very whelmed. over and extremely whelmed.

I will just say one thing about the episode. It had hands down the best music in an episode throughout the entire series. It really helped add to the atmosphere of the entire episode.

Just phenomenal.

Totally agree with the soundtrack comment. There was one moment where... the dark troopers were being activated and they turned the mechanical sounds into a beat, and then seamlessly switched to the surreal Mando theme as he entered the scene, just brilliant
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on December 18, 2020, 09:59:32 AM
Exactly, that moment was so well done with the music!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2020, 10:24:56 AM
Holy fucking shit  :omg:

I mean....just....freaking incredible. This show and more importantly Favreau/Filoni have taken SW to a different level.

I honestly had the goosiest of goose bumps and my eyes welled up a bit. THATS how great of an episode and particularly last 10-12 minutes were.



Holy shit what a finale. I am very whelmed. over and extremely whelmed.

I will just say one thing about the episode. It had hands down the best music in an episode throughout the entire series. It really helped add to the atmosphere of the entire episode.

Just phenomenal.

Totally agree with the soundtrack comment.

Yep. I said it with the last four episodes of Cone Wars.....that was epic level soundtrack that created such an immersive atmosphere......and it's continued into this show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 18, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
What a fantastic, brilliantly executed episode!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on December 18, 2020, 11:39:17 AM
I thought the episode was great, but I was a little disappointed in their use of something.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2020, 11:51:14 AM
This is going to be tough waiting to discuss.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 18, 2020, 12:10:33 PM
This is going to be tough waiting to discuss.....

 :lol for fucking real man
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2020, 12:14:23 PM
This is going to be tough waiting to discuss.....

 :lol for fucking real man

We may have to schedule an emergency 'teams' meeting or something.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on December 18, 2020, 12:34:16 PM
Haha yeah, my friend texted me in the morning saying DONT GO ON THE INTERNET if you haven't watched the new episode, normally I watch it in the night but I couldn't resist after that text and boy I'm glad I watched it right away.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 18, 2020, 12:39:39 PM
Yeah after seeing one or two post I watched it on my phone just to make sure I didn't get spoiled
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 18, 2020, 01:00:40 PM
Fantastic episode. I had to go back and rewatch the final 15 mins again. This whole season has been very strong.
(If anyone hasn’t seen it yet, sit tight through the end credits...)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2020, 01:16:10 PM
I had to go back and rewatch the final 15 mins again.

What's 'good' for me is my youngest son is three episodes behind so I'll just have to re-watch them with him later tonight. I'm sure I'll watch this finale a few times.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: masterthes on December 18, 2020, 02:04:53 PM
It was a really solid season. I think the first season was better. Only real misstep was the second episode
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 18, 2020, 03:05:31 PM
I loved it... but I think my expectations were too high on the conclusion.  As Kramer would say, I wasn't gaga over it.  And I hear what Bill (axeman) is saying about the moment of taking off his helmut (and how the way it happened in the finale would've been WAY better to be the way it happened.

Anyone *not* watched it yet?  I mean, seems like most of us have.  I say we give any stragglers tonight to get it watched.  Open season for discussion tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on December 18, 2020, 03:32:05 PM
I thought the final episode was fitting for a season 2 that has been mostly repetitive filler and fanwank.  Not to say it isn't enjoyable on a fun romp way....but pretty much zero substance.

I know Stormtroopers being bowling pins is nothing new, but this takes their ineptitude and complete lack off threat to a new level. 

'Are you a Jedi?'. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 18, 2020, 05:44:19 PM
I thought the final episode was fitting for a season 2 that has been mostly repetitive filler and fanwank. 

It was definitely the money shot of fanwank on this finale.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2020, 06:25:19 PM
Fanwank or not.....every instance of it fit the season for the story. It wasn’t forced into place just to have fanwank. That’s the difference in what Filoni/Favreau are doing and what JJ and Co tried to do. It ‘works’ in this show as it’s not fanwank for fanwanks sake
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on December 18, 2020, 07:14:52 PM
Honestly I don't mind the fanwank, I acknowledge it was pure fan service. However I thought like gmillerdrake, it suited the occasion. It didn't feel out of place, at least not to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 18, 2020, 08:24:17 PM
My family and I just Holy Shitted our way through the finale.

Mr. Hamill had a brilliant tweet this afternoon.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2020, 12:22:01 AM
I'm guessing this probably isn't far from the truth....it shows for sure...

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/132018407_3374336272664456_70296677921752397_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FLy8mnd0w28AX9XUGk_&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=3e3790806fbac70950a52db85b7d44a8&oe=6003AB2D)


On a second watch, and the soundtrack is even more impressive. Also, I want to go on record as saying that the one shot of Grogu touching the screen of Luke kicking ass is just so perfect. I have to have that on a poster.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Podaar on December 19, 2020, 05:14:52 AM
That was a fun episode. I honestly was expecting Cal Kestis (he's the youngling hunter after all) but as soon as I saw what ship arrived, I knew. Mrs. P was like, "No fucking way." You could tell by her pleased tone that she meant it in a good way.  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 19, 2020, 06:52:03 AM
I loved it... but I think my expectations were too high on the conclusion.  As Kramer would say, I wasn't gaga over it.  And I hear what Bill (axeman) is saying about the moment of taking off his helmut (and how the way it happened in the finale would've been WAY better to be the way it happened.

Anyone *not* watched it yet?  I mean, seems like most of us have.  I say we give any stragglers tonight to get it watched.  Open season for discussion tomorrow morning.

I literally just watched Solo (first time) and Rogue One (second time) last night, so...   I had not watched even one episode, but having sort of immersed back in I'm probably going to watch it over the next month or so.  (That's not to say you should make any decisions on things; I'm not really that concerned about "spoilers"; I more often than not "know" what's what when I watch stuff, so...)

By the way, I had always heard "Solo" BLEW, but it was far better than I had been led to expect.  The character was a shade too snarky for me; Harrison Ford always seemed to know when to shift to "serious mode" and this guy didn't, but it was still fun.   I watched Captain America earlier in the week, and so two movies in a row where I had to say "is that so-and-so from Game of Thrones?"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 19, 2020, 07:47:57 AM
I haven't heard anyone say that Solo blew. Almost everyone I knew thought it was fun, but not great. I thought it did ok with the critics as well. It definitely doesn't deserve the bad rap it's gotten.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ronnibran on December 19, 2020, 08:26:18 AM
Possibly the most satisfying episode of any show I've ever watched.  Amazing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 19, 2020, 08:27:18 AM
So, when can we start discussion spoilers on here? Sunday? Monday? I'd hate to spoil it for anyone, but I think pretty much all the regulars has indicated they've seen it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 19, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
I say it’s fair game.

I will say this, the deepfake technology still has a ways to go as it relates to dialogue. All in all, A+ episode and season. Loved how Luke crushed that last trooper. Really not sure why the Dr. Provided any assistance tho. When it comes to fighting a Jedi, they were about as useful as regular troopers. Makes ya think Jedi killed by clones in Order 66 (like Ki-Adi-Munda and Aayla Secura) sucked.

So what’s the deal with the dark Sabre now?  Bo-Katan didn’t “win” it, so ??
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2020, 09:36:14 AM
I say it’s fair game.

I will say this, the deepfake technology still has a ways to go as it relates to dialogue. All in all, A+ episode and season. Loved how Luke crushed that last trooper. Really not sure why the Dr. Provided any assistance tho. When it comes to fighting a Jedi, they were about as useful as regular troopers. Makes ya think Jedi killed by clones in Order 66 (like Ki-Adi-Munda and Aayla Secura) sucked.

So what’s the deal with the dark Sabre now?  Bo-Katan didn’t “win” it, so ??

That's one of the two big questions I had as well, and that one I feel will be solved in S3. The other is of course, what happens to Grogu? I mean, the kid has already been through one Jedi slaughter, is he going to be part of another when Ben Solo goes all Kylo Ren on Luke's school? I think a story involving Bo Katan and the retaking of Mandalore will have appeal for the hardcores, but a massive swath of the show's following will be lost if Grogu isn't a part of it, and the boys have to know that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 19, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
The dark saber thing is the confusing part.  Bo-katan was given the dark saber the first time she was the leader by another Mandalorian Sabine Wren. Sabine said she couldn’t lead Mandalore and that Bo-Katan was the rightful, true heir. Not sure why she’s acting all weird about it now. Maybe just because Mof Gideon was giving her crap.

Luke Skywalker showing up was awesome and when you think about it makes the most sense. He’s the most powerful Jedi alive in the galaxy at that point.....of course he’d be the one to answer the call. I was the same way Gregg.....that X wing popped on screen and I was like ‘No Fn Way’  :metal

The entire season was set up for that moment. Especially when considering the dark troopers. I said it a few pages back that a Jedi was the only person who could battle them for obvious reasons......I just thought that’d be the introduction of Ahsoka but Filoni and Favreau handled her and Luke perfectly.

Where was the other guy Mandalorian that was with Bo-Katan when we first met her?

The Book of Boba Fett looks to be interesting. Wonder where the heck they take that story? Speaking of which, what direction does this show go now? I’m can’t imagine we see much more of Grogu.

Maybe the next time we see him is when a young Ben Solo is making a kabob out of him when he kills all Luke’s students. Although, they did say some of the students left with Ben?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2020, 09:39:53 AM
I figured out it was Luke when I saw the green lightsaber, and that he had one gloved hand wielding it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 19, 2020, 10:13:10 AM
I figured out it was Luke when I saw the green lightsaber, and that he had one gloved hand wielding it.

Really? Man, that X wing flew by and I was floored. Said to my middle son....”I can’t believe it....it’s Luke”. He was grinning ear to ear......

That entire sequence was awesome. The broken, grainy footage in the corridors.....leading to that no doubter scene you described....and as has been mentioned, the score that was playing under it all....just perfect.

I wonder if Disney now realizes just how badly they F’d up by not involving Dave Filoni in any of the sequel movies? Favreau is obviously a huge part in it all also but Filoni is the SW guru when it comes to lore and knowledge. Cant wait to see what they have planned in these other series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on December 19, 2020, 10:19:05 AM
So what’s the deal with the dark Sabre now?  Bo-Katan didn’t “win” it, so ??

I really thought there was going to be a moment where Din Djarin was going to set her straight and say something along the lines of, "You showed me that old, outdated customs shouldn't define us.  I was too caught up in the old ways.  And I learned that, to help others, I had to discard some of those old rules and show my face.  Me taking my helmet off in your presence shows that I can still be a true Mandalorian without following ALL of the old customs.  You should follow your own advice.  Take the sabre and go lead your people."  Or something like that.  I was surprised they didn't do that and it just ended.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2020, 11:22:51 AM
I figured out it was Luke when I saw the green lightsaber, and that he had one gloved hand wielding it.

Really? Man, that X wing flew by and I was floored. Said to my middle son....”I can’t believe it....it’s Luke”. He was grinning ear to ear......

That entire sequence was awesome. The broken, grainy footage in the corridors.....leading to that no doubter scene you described....and as has been mentioned, the score that was playing under it all....just perfect.

I wonder if Disney now realizes just how badly they F’d up by not involving Dave Filoni in any of the sequel movies? Favreau is obviously a huge part in it all also but Filoni is the SW guru when it comes to lore and knowledge. Cant wait to see what they have planned in these other series.

I had an inkling it was luke at the sight of the x-wing, but didn't want to fully commit my emotions at that moment  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 19, 2020, 11:32:44 AM
One of the big thoughts that came over me after this episode was that it was almost like they planned a contingency in case the show was going to end after season 2. If Bo-Katan had just taken the darksaber from Din (which would have been consistent with events from The Clone Wars), the show could have basically ended right there. It was almost like they saw how massively popular it is, so they decided to continue it by having the Mandalore plot take over as the main plot instead of focusing on Grogu.

I struggle to see where Grogu's plot goes from here. I doubt we see him training with Luke, but maybe I'll be surprised there. He's too much of a marketing and merchandise home run to let go of entirely. Maybe Ahsoka and the characters from Rangers of the New Republic (Cara?) come back together to save Grogu from a bigger threat (Thrawn?) in season 4.

I suspect the main plot with Din revolves around reestablishing Mandalore and who will lead the Mandalorians in season 3.

I don't know that I've ever been more excited in Star Wars than when I realized it was Luke. I was 80% sure after the X-wing and 100% sure after the gloved hand holding the green lightsaber. I wanted to stand up and cheer, but I was watching early in the morning before the rest of the family was up, so I contained myself.

I wonder if Disney now realizes just how badly they F’d up by not involving Dave Filoni in any of the sequel movies?
Filoni is obviously a Star Wars god, but I still think the issue with the sequel trilogy was lack of unified vision and lack of a plan. I honestly think if JJ Abrams had written and directed the whole thing, it would have been way better. But we don't need to delve into that any more than we already have. Filoni should be the creative head of all things Star Wars going forward, period, end of story. Get Favreau to stick around long term too. Those guys obviously get what people love about Star Wars.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 19, 2020, 12:29:47 PM
I had an inkling it was luke at the sight of the x-wing, but didn't want to fully commit my emotions at that moment  :lol

I know....I was in disbelief just thinking to myself....."no way they do this.....no way they do this"



Filoni is obviously a Star Wars god, but I still think the issue with the sequel trilogy was lack of unified vision and lack of a plan. I honestly think if JJ Abrams had written and directed the whole thing, it would have been way better. But we don't need to delve into that any more than we already have. Filoni should be the creative head of all things Star Wars going forward, period, end of story. Get Favreau to stick around long term too. Those guys obviously get what people love about Star Wars.

Yeah.....we've beat that horse to death. It's just a shame they didn't involve people that actually 'know' SW. It's pretty clear Disney just wanted to make their $4 billion back as quick as possible.


What I learned from watching that 'Gallery' series about the first season.....Favreau is clearly the 'creative' mind behind this. Taking all the technology he's utilized over the years and creating 'the volume'......incorporating that gaming system way of shooting scenes.....the technical application and knowing how to use it and his directing vision are invaluable. Then, when Filoni speaks he's on a whole other level as far as understanding SW....there were even moments that Favreau openly said he had no idea what 'you' are talking about because Filoni was so in the weeds as far as lore and backstory. Filoni's encyclopedic knowledge and understanding of the SW universe and Favreau's keen understanding of 'how' to make movies is just a perfect one two punch.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 19, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
What I learned from watching that 'Gallery' series about the first season.....Favreau is clearly the 'creative' mind behind this. Taking all the technology he's utilized over the years and creating 'the volume'......incorporating that gaming system way of shooting scenes.....the technical application and knowing how to use it and his directing vision are invaluable. Then, when Filoni speaks he's on a whole other level as far as understanding SW....there were even moments that Favreau openly said he had no idea what 'you' are talking about because Filoni was so in the weeds as far as lore and backstory. Filoni's encyclopedic knowledge and understanding of the SW universe and Favreau's keen understanding of 'how' to make movies is just a perfect one two punch.
Pairing Filoni's knowledge of Star Wars with a visionary director like Favreau is probably the best way to do Star Wars long term. I doubt Favreau would be interested in doing nothing but Star Wars for the next decade, but Filoni has been doing nothing but Star Wars for a long time now. Seems like a easy formula for success to me. Hopefully the Lucasfilm and Disney brass are paying attention to more than just the dollar signs rolling in from Disney+ subscriptions.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 19, 2020, 02:11:18 PM
I'm out of my depth with you guys here, but reading these posts... you don't need Favreau full time.  You need him to iron out the kinks when they arise.  You DO need a Filoni, though, to make sure the ship is always (generally) pointing in the right direction.  It's a fine line to "shake things up" without shaking loose the foundation, and you need a person to be guiding that part of the ship.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 19, 2020, 04:41:05 PM
On a second watch, and the soundtrack is even more impressive.

Just watched for the third time. Had even more chills and watery eyes this time around than I did the first time. The music that accompanies Luke as his X Wing enters the scene and he boards the cruiser is utterly beautiful and perfect for that moment in the story. It gets more powerful with each viewing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: orcus116 on December 19, 2020, 06:49:23 PM
Loved the ending and I was so happy they played Luke's theme. When it ended I was half expecting to hear the Star Wars theme play when they cut to credits as an homage to the movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ronnibran on December 19, 2020, 07:00:03 PM
I can't wait to watch again.  So amazing.  Me, wife, and daughter were all crying watching.  So powerful.  We're all on board to watch next season even if there's no Grogu.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 19, 2020, 07:29:10 PM
Stunning season. Sadly, stupid internet headline writers spoiled the big surprise for me. Why can't people learn to not print spoilers in a headline?

Speaking of Favreau, even though he wrote the lions share of this season, I agree with a lot of people that say he should be the 'Kevin Feige' of Star Wars. The puppeteer that hovers over the franchise and steers it where it needs to go. I fully concur with that. Obviously, Filoni needs to also be a major presence.

And to beat another dead horse regarding the sequel trilogy, I feel the same way about JJ Trek. They took people who had no idea what they had and mucked it up. JJ even said he wasn't really a fan. I have yet to see a single JJ-verse movie and don't plan to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 19, 2020, 07:53:00 PM
I’ve seen that Favreau gets credit fir ‘writing’ these episodes but it’s not to difficult to surmise that he’s clearly utilizing Filoni and others when crafting these stories. Filoni is a producer of every episode as Favreau is credited for writing. Whatever the heck they’re doing I hope they stick to it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2020, 07:58:08 PM
I'll say the one thing I was bummed was the lack of that killer end credit art style for this episode. I really hope they release those in prints or collectively in a book, the style is so stunning.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 19, 2020, 08:21:12 PM
I'll say the one thing I was bummed was the lack of that killer end credit art style for this episode. I really hope they release those in prints or collectively in a book, the style is so stunning.

Oh yeah......I was so floored from what I just saw I didn’t even realize the lack of artwork.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2020, 08:23:01 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 19, 2020, 08:28:07 PM
I recognize I'm way out of step here, and if I need to table this until the discussion on the Mandalorian dies down so be it, but I just watched the worst Star Wars movie/entry/whatever ever.   The Last Jedi was...   I almost didn't watch it all the way through.  To say it's tone deaf to the entire series is being polite to the point of mockery.   

So disappointed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 19, 2020, 08:31:27 PM
I recognize I'm way out of step here, and if I need to table this until the discussion on the Mandalorian dies down so be it, but I just watched the worst Star Wars movie/entry/whatever ever.   The Last Jedi was...   I almost didn't watch it all the way through.  To say it's tone deaf to the entire series is being polite to the point of mockery.   

So disappointed.
You're definitely not alone in feeling that way. I personally loved The Last Jedi, but I get why people didn't care for it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 19, 2020, 08:49:28 PM
I'll say the one thing I was bummed was the lack of that killer end credit art style for this episode. I really hope they release those in prints or collectively in a book, the style is so stunning.

I was so confused by the lack of art and I just kept watching. Then they went all Marvel with a post credits scene. I was so programmed by the art that I was trying to figure out what the catch was.

And, absolutely yes, I have said from the first season that I would buy a book of the storyboard art in a heartbeat. It is just stunning work.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
I'll say the one thing I was bummed was the lack of that killer end credit art style for this episode. I really hope they release those in prints or collectively in a book, the style is so stunning.

I was so confused by the lack of art and I just kept watching. Then they went all Marvel with a post credits scene. I was so programmed by the art that I was trying to figure out what the catch was.

And, absolutely yes, I have said from the first season that I would buy a book of the storyboard art in a heartbeat. It is just stunning work.

I'm really surprised they haven't capitalized on it. I searched far and wide too, I wanted to get a high quality print for my kid for Xmas, and even the Disney art studios didn't have it. They have a ton of other really good stuff, but none in that distinct end credit style.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Podaar on December 20, 2020, 05:32:42 AM
So what’s the deal with the dark Sabre now?  Bo-Katan didn’t “win” it, so ??

I really thought there was going to be a moment where Din Djarin was going to set her straight and say something along the lines of, "You showed me that old, outdated customs shouldn't define us.  I was too caught up in the old ways.  And I learned that, to help others, I had to discard some of those old rules and show my face.  Me taking my helmet off in your presence shows that I can still be a true Mandalorian without following ALL of the old customs.  You should follow your own advice.  Take the sabre and go lead your people."  Or something like that.  I was surprised they didn't do that and it just ended.

I suspect that what you describe, Bosk, is what the next season will be partially/primarily about.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 20, 2020, 08:15:26 AM
Oh wow, I actually didn't know anything about this episode beforehand so the ending caught me by surprise. A bit overwhelming to say the least.  :omg:

That's was an amazing moment seeing Luke fight. I just LOVE the buildup on how powerful they made him look, after all your following characters without jedi power and I find that contrast to be really interesting if you know what I mean.

I mean the only thing left (and i'm glad they didn't in a way) that could have destroy me was if they ended with the Star Wars main theme.  :chill  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 20, 2020, 08:58:23 AM
Rewatched the ending this morning. I'm sorry, but if you're not misty eyed after Din takes his helmet off to say goodbye to Grogu, you are dead inside.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 20, 2020, 10:21:27 AM
I watched The Rise Of Skywalker last night, then the first episode of The Mandalorian.    So I'm in, now.  I expect that football will interfere today, but if the games suck, I will try to get in a couple more episodes today.   TROS was very good, not great - really disappointed with the final trilogy overall; they missed the boat on that one big time, if you're asking me - and the Mandalorian was slight in contrast at a half an hour.   But it's got promise. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 20, 2020, 10:36:58 AM
I'm reading some speculation now that The Book of Boba Fett might actually be season 3 of The Mandalorian. I wish Lucasfilm would come out and specifically say what it is. It could be a movie, a separate limited series leading up to The Mandalorian season 3, a separate full series that will overlap with the release dates season 3, or it could actually be season 3. I personally hope that it's a separate thing and that the Mandalorian will continue to follow Din.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 20, 2020, 10:41:02 AM
Rewatched the ending this morning. I'm sorry, but if you're not misty eyed after Din takes his helmet off to say goodbye to Grogu, you are dead inside.

Yup.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2020, 10:56:01 AM
I'm reading some speculation now that The Book of Boba Fett might actually be season 3 of The Mandalorian. I wish Lucasfilm would come out and specifically say what it is. It could be a movie, a separate limited series leading up to The Mandalorian season 3, a separate full series that will overlap with the release dates season 3, or it could actually be season 3. I personally hope that it's a separate thing and that the Mandalorian will continue to follow Din.

I would like to see Din’s story continue.....I think there’s still meat on that bone......but I will not question the decision if it isn’t. Again, until given a solid reason......I’ll trust Filoni/Favreau with however they want to present this SW material.


It appears a broader story is being crafted ala Marvel style


https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/disney-star-wars-marvel-studios-1234866986/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2020, 01:51:16 PM
On a second watch, and the soundtrack is even more impressive.

Just watched for the third time. Had even more chills and watery eyes this time around than I did the first time. The music that accompanies Luke as his X Wing enters the scene and he boards the cruiser is utterly beautiful and perfect for that moment in the story. It gets more powerful with each viewing.

Found the song on YouTube

https://youtu.be/Vt0T2QlWf8c
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2020, 02:11:26 PM
Something else that's being kind of gleaned over and taken for granted is just how easily Luke tore through an entire garrison of Dark Troopers. Soldiers that had been shown to be incredibly powerful, and that were built and programmed for the sole purpose of destruction. Din luckily beat just one of them.....and he's a seasoned warrior who we've seen that is more skilled than your average normal person. If he weren't wearing Beskar armor his head would have been killed in seconds with his head being splattered on the corridor walls.

It was awesome for them to show just how powerful the Jedi are....in particular Luke, a Jedi Master and 'the' most powerful Jedi alive. In my subsequent viewings it's particularly interesting the reaction of Mof Gideon as he sees it's a Jedi.....and I think he knows that it's Luke Skywalker. Remember, they've made a big deal for two seasons now that Mof Gideon knows everything about everyone.....they even reinforced the point as he spoke with Din.

There's no way he doesn't know 'who' Luke Skywalker is and what he's capable of.....and you can see it in his reaction as Luke makes his way to the bridge.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 20, 2020, 03:03:37 PM
Yeah, it struck me immediately how much more powerful Luke was, slicing through those troopers like butter, whereas Mando is stretched to his very limit just to beat one of them.

Pretty sure it was deliberate to show the difference between the big players and little players in the SW universe. I’m fine with it, as long as they don’t do too much of it and make these side characters appear totally inconsequential.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on December 20, 2020, 03:08:28 PM
First, I thought it was great but definitely not the best of the season.

Regarding Luke, 1) I get that a lot of people think the tech isn't good enough yet, and sure but at no point did it bother me. I was just stunned to see him...AND R2!!! 2) I really hope his presence doesn't overshadow the rest of the episode. Yes, it was super cool seeing Luke show up and treat the Dark Troopers like battle droids in the prequels...but there was a lot of other brilliance in the episode. I just hope we don't focus on Luke to the exclusion of everything else.

Beyond Luke, it was mostly a great episode. I dunno how I feel about the Boba Fett ending and how that impacts season 3. I also read (maybe on here or elsewhere) that fighting to the death for the Dark Saber wasn't a think before this episode? I dunno. I didn't like that part. Seemed just tacked on to throw in some tension that didn't go anywhere anyway. I would have just ditched that random minor sub plot.

But yea. All in all? Loved the season. People can get pissy about fan service, but this didn't seem cheap. We've already been sold on Mando and all of the original characters. So throwing in Luke after 2 seasons for 5 minutes seems fine. If Luke showed up in season 1 episode 3, and Ahsoka and Boba showed up in episode 2, then it'd be poor form. But we all love Mando. We love Grogu. We love the other characters we've met. Sadly it seems a good amount of people didn't like the Luke stuff. I did, I just hope it doesn't take center stage when it should be a great dessert.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2020, 03:10:51 PM
Yeah, it struck me immediately how much more powerful Luke was, slicing through those troopers like butter, whereas Mando is stretched to his very limit just to beat one of them.

Pretty sure it was deliberate to show the difference between the big players and little players in the SW universe. I’m fine with it, as long as they don’t do too much of it and make these side characters appear totally inconsequential.

I actually think they did a good job of showing just how 'strong' the side characters are with several of the story arcs this season. Din, Boba Fett, Bo-Katan......they all were shown to be pretty formidable against their peers. They did an excellent job of building and showing the power of the Dark Troopers against a 'normal' foe....how they were pretty much unstoppable.....then they did an excellent job of showing just how powerful and skilled a fully trained Jedi Master is. It was beautiful.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2020, 03:14:40 PM
But yea. All in all? Loved the season. People can get pissy about fan service, but this didn't seem cheap. We've already been sold on Mando and all of the original characters. So throwing in Luke after 2 seasons for 5 minutes seems fine. If Luke showed up in season 1 episode 3, and Ahsoka and Boba showed up in episode 2, then it'd be poor form. But we all love Mando. We love Grogu. We love the other characters we've met. Sadly it seems a good amount of people didn't like the Luke stuff. I did, I just hope it doesn't take center stage when it should be a great dessert.

Where are you seeing/reading that? I've seen/read the opposite.....I think it's been pretty well received. There is that pompous segment of the SW fandom that NOTHING anyone does SW wise will satisfy them.....but I get the impression that the use of Luke in that episode has been a massive hit.

I said it earlier when the 'fanservice' was mentioned and you just hit on it......there was nothing out of place about the 'fanservice' in this season. Nothing was forced and included just to be there. It all fell within the story and made perfect sense. It belonged......plain and simple.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on December 20, 2020, 03:15:47 PM
But yea. All in all? Loved the season. People can get pissy about fan service, but this didn't seem cheap. We've already been sold on Mando and all of the original characters. So throwing in Luke after 2 seasons for 5 minutes seems fine. If Luke showed up in season 1 episode 3, and Ahsoka and Boba showed up in episode 2, then it'd be poor form. But we all love Mando. We love Grogu. We love the other characters we've met. Sadly it seems a good amount of people didn't like the Luke stuff. I did, I just hope it doesn't take center stage when it should be a great dessert.

Where are you seeing/reading that? I've seen/read the opposite.....I think it's been pretty well received. There is that pompous segment of the SW fandom that NOTHING anyone does SW wise will satisfy them.....but I get the impression that the use of Luke in that episode has been a massive hit.

I said it earlier when the 'fanservice' was mentioned and you just hit on it......there was nothing out of place about the 'fanservice' in this season. Nothing was forced and included just to be there. It all fell within the story and made perfect sense. It belonged......plain and simple.

Mostly the people I follow on Twitter. Admittedly, might be a very small amount of people in the end. So hopefully it's not representative at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 20, 2020, 03:28:03 PM
Regarding Luke, 1) I get that a lot of people think the tech isn't good enough yet, and sure but at no point did it bother me. I was just stunned to see him...AND R2!!!

Same. I thought Luke’s face looked a little off, but it didn’t in any way take me out of the scene. I haven’t seen too many complaining strongly about it.

I came across this YT clip, where some guy has redone Tarkin and Leia from R1: https://youtu.be/_CXMb_MO3aw

That looks pretty good to me. So the tech is getting close, probably just needs some time to perfect it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on December 20, 2020, 07:45:31 PM
The soundtrack for the last few episodes is out and man the tracks "Troopers" &  "A friend" back to back are such a great listen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on December 20, 2020, 07:48:02 PM
On a second watch, and the soundtrack is even more impressive.

Just watched for the third time. Had even more chills and watery eyes this time around than I did the first time. The music that accompanies Luke as his X Wing enters the scene and he boards the cruiser is utterly beautiful and perfect for that moment in the story. It gets more powerful with each viewing.

Found the song on YouTube

https://youtu.be/Vt0T2QlWf8c (https://youtu.be/Vt0T2QlWf8c)


I posted before I saw this. But yes this music is incredible.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 21, 2020, 06:57:37 AM
The Book of Boba Fett it confirmed to be an original series coming Dec 2021. Produced by Favreau , Filoni and Robert Rodriguez. I'm always excited for more Star Wars, but I think it's odd that the release of this will likely overlap with the release of The Mandalorian season 3. Seems like they would have wanted to space those out. Of note is that they didn't call it a limited series like they did with Obi-Wan, which means we could be looking at multiple seasons.

(https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/132103803_3023549744414048_4593106488883096757_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=RsJuuuWhBeIAX8Lp_5g&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&oh=9b0740652cd32dd930f0d84a3cae2bdf&oe=60080271)


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 21, 2020, 07:30:50 AM
Man what a time to be a Star Wars fan.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 21, 2020, 08:11:00 AM
Rumors are out there that a Luke Skywalker series set during the time of The Mandelorian is in the early stages of development as well. Let's not overdo it now Lucasfilm.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on December 21, 2020, 08:11:38 AM
Rumors are out there that a Luke Skywalker series set during the time of The Mandelorian is in the early stages of development as well. Let's not overdo it now Lucasfilm.

Have not heard these rumors. I also doubt they could possibly afford that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: kaos2900 on December 21, 2020, 08:28:51 AM
Rumors are out there that a Luke Skywalker series set during the time of The Mandelorian is in the early stages of development as well. Let's not overdo it now Lucasfilm.

My opinion is the same as my opinion on all the Marvel movies and shows. As long as the quality is good I have no concerns with the quantity. Bring it on!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on December 21, 2020, 08:38:52 AM
I got a notification for it as well, seems to be a thing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 21, 2020, 08:42:43 AM
Rumors are out there that a Luke Skywalker series set during the time of The Mandelorian is in the early stages of development as well. Let's not overdo it now Lucasfilm.

My opinion is the same as my opinion on all the Marvel movies and shows. As long as the quality is good I have no concerns with the quantity. Bring it on!
Agreed. It easy to forget at times that everything announced so far will be released over a 3 year time frame, so I don't think 2-3 series a year is out of the question.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 21, 2020, 08:51:58 AM
Pretty cool that the extra scene in Mandolorian is a segue to that show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 21, 2020, 09:30:13 AM
Rumors are out there that a Luke Skywalker series set during the time of The Mandelorian is in the early stages of development as well. Let's not overdo it now Lucasfilm.

Have not heard these rumors. I also doubt they could possibly afford that.

The only way they could pull it off is simply casting someone who looks a lot like a young Luke. And, if that's the case.....and this has been in the works.....they missed a huge opportunity in the finale of the Mandalorian to re-introduce 'Luke' to everyone by having the doppelganger actor reveal himself instead of the deep fake version.

I'm on the fence about whether to get excited about it or not. As I've said a few times.....this new team that's giving us the Mandalorian is really on a hot streak and have given me no reason to doubt they couldn't pull it off. But, it's Luke Skywalker. The 'one off' limited face exposure then CGI reveal worked....but a full series could be tricky to say the least. It 'sounds' awesome....but there's no room for error there. It's either a massive hit or it falls on its face.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 21, 2020, 09:31:54 AM
Rumors are out there that a Luke Skywalker series set during the time of The Mandelorian is in the early stages of development as well. Let's not overdo it now Lucasfilm.

My opinion is the same as my opinion on all the Marvel movies and shows. As long as the quality is good I have no concerns with the quantity. Bring it on!
Agreed. It easy to forget at times that everything announced so far will be released over a 3 year time frame, so I don't think 2-3 series a year is out of the question.

That article I linked earlier I read yesterday confirms that they're basically copying Marvel in the way that all these spin offs and series that they're planning are leading to one culminating moment....so, unlike the sequel series....I think they've mapped out the direction of what they want to accomplish.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 21, 2020, 09:48:06 AM
The only way they could pull it off is simply casting someone who looks a lot like a young Luke. And, if that's the case.....and this has been in the works.....they missed a huge opportunity in the finale of the Mandalorian to re-introduce 'Luke' to everyone by having the doppelganger actor reveal himself instead of the deep fake version.

I'm on the fence about whether to get excited about it or not. As I've said a few times.....this new team that's giving us the Mandalorian is really on a hot streak and have given me no reason to doubt they couldn't pull it off. But, it's Luke Skywalker. The 'one off' limited face exposure then CGI reveal worked....but a full series could be tricky to say the least. It 'sounds' awesome....but there's no room for error there. It's either a massive hit or it falls on its face.
I agree that a Luke Skywalker series would need to recast Luke. You're right that they missed an opportunity to introduce us to the new Luke in he Mandalorian. I honestly think I'd rather they stay away from Luke apart from possible cameos here or there as they visit Grogu.


That article I linked earlier I read yesterday confirms that they're basically copying Marvel in the way that all these spin offs and series that they're planning are leading to one culminating moment....so, unlike the sequel series....I think they've mapped out the direction of what they want to accomplish.
Yeah at least all of the ones taking place during The Mandalorian timeline: Boba Fett, Ahsoka, Rangers of the New Republic, possible Luke Skywalker series should all culminate in some sort of cross-over event. Hopefully they'll have one off series like Obi-Wan and Lando without feeling the need for it all to tie in somehow. And the Acolyte (if successful) will likely kick off a completely separate group of series that tie together. Definitely looking forward to seeing how this all goes. I wish it wasn't a year before the next thing comes out and 2-3 years for a lot of it. It'll be hard to wait!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 21, 2020, 09:59:43 AM
My guess is that Mando S3 and Boba won't air at the exact same time. Favreau said that Boba is in production and once they wrap on that, then they will move onto S3 of Mando. Factoring in CGI and whatever, I go see Boba airing first and then maybe Mando S3 following right after. He said that Mando is in pre-production right now.

Either way, the fact that the brain trust that is running Mando is running Boba is all I need to know.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 21, 2020, 10:47:49 AM
My guess is that Mando S3 and Boba won't air at the exact same time. Favreau said that Boba is in production and once they wrap on that, then they will move onto S3 of Mando. Factoring in CGI and whatever, I go see Boba airing first and then maybe Mando S3 following right after. He said that Mando is in pre-production right now.

Either way, the fact that the brain trust that is running Mando is running Boba is all I need to know.
I'm pretty sure they've given December 2021 dates for both. But yeah, I trust they'll do it right. I honestly think if they were smart, they'd never overlap any Star Wars or Marvel series. If they just rolled from one to the next with a week or two off in between they'd basically give us reasons to always be paying for Disney+.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 24, 2020, 05:17:28 AM
So I've rewatched the Luke scene a few times, and while I've read some well reasoned opinions from people who didn't care for it, I think that scene is nearly flawless. The music is fantastic, the build up of the reveal that it's Luke was great, seeing Luke at the height of his power was exciting, the way the scene was shot cutting between the security cams and the the actual shots of Luke was great, the buildup nof anticipation for the other characters in the show as well as the audience. I dunno guys, I can't think of a scene in Star Wars that is clearly better, certainly some are right up there with it.

The only things I can think of that bother me a bit is that I kinda hate it when someone shows up out of nowhere to save the protagonist just in the nick of time. Now at least in this case it had been built up in previous episodes. I also thought that Din removing his helmet for Drogu would have been more powerful if he hadn't removed it the episode before.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 24, 2020, 08:06:26 AM
So... what IS the Mandalorian timeline in context of the nine movies?   

I'm at episode six of the first season, and while it's very good, I'm not genuflecting just yet.  Some of it has the faint whiff of... I don't know what the word is, but it's that idea of the cartoon character that is walking - sometimes sleepwalking - and is oblivious to all that is going on around him/her and nothing happens to them (like walking out on a steel beam and right when they get to the edge it's lined up with a floor of a building kind of thing)*.   Again, it's just a faint whiff, and I'm going to keep watching, but I'm almost 65% of the way through and not yet feeling like I have to schedule my lunch break to go watch more episodes, you know?   


* Having Gina Carano shoot the other bounty hunter in the back JUST as he's pulling the trigger is one example.   Escaping the leading assassin in the galaxy AND the junior bounty hunter that got greedy is another.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on December 24, 2020, 08:22:55 AM
I believe it's somewhere in the 5-10 year range after Return of the Jedi, so probably a number of years before The Force Awakens.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 24, 2020, 08:28:49 AM
Yep.  The Mandalorian takes place shortly after the original trilogy (~5 years I think I've read).  The Empire has fallen, but there are areas where the "Imps" still have considerable presence and influence.  The rebels from the OT (Luke and company) have formed The New Republic, but realistically, they may have destroyed a Death Star or two, but they don't actually know how to run a galactic government, so it's more like anarchy in some areas while The New Republic tries to establish some kind of order.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on December 24, 2020, 08:58:24 AM
So... what IS the Mandalorian timeline in context of the nine movies?   

I found this on the internet, sounds about right
(https://i.imgur.com/JJLDgFK.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 24, 2020, 09:43:25 AM
Really not sure there's a need to have a duplicate / smaller reference for Rogue One to reference the "past" scenes of R1
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 24, 2020, 10:28:30 AM
So I've rewatched the Luke scene a few times, and while I've read some well reasoned opinions from people who didn't care for it, I think that scene is nearly flawless. The music is fantastic, the build up of the reveal that it's Luke was great, seeing Luke at the height of his power was exciting, the way the scene was shot cutting between the security cams and the the actual shots of Luke was great, the buildup nof anticipation for the other characters in the show as well as the audience. I dunno guys, I can't think of a scene in Star Wars that is clearly better, certainly some are right up there with it.

Yep. The soundtrack, the way they cut the scenes.....it all built up perfectly and was executed flawlessly. It’s an immediate all time iconic SW’s scene. I mean, it’s done so well that near everyone is willing to overlook the small issues with the deep fake/CGI they had with de-aging Hamill. I know I don’t give a  :censored. It’s the point and the power behind what that moment represents.

So... what IS the Mandalorian timeline in context of the nine movies?   

I'm at episode six of the first season, and while it's very good, I'm not genuflecting just yet.  Some of it has the faint whiff of... I don't know what the word is, but it's that idea of the cartoon character that is walking - sometimes sleepwalking - and is oblivious to all that is going on around him/her and nothing happens to them (like walking out on a steel beam and right when they get to the edge it's lined up with a floor of a building kind of thing)*.   Again, it's just a faint whiff, and I'm going to keep watching, but I'm almost 65% of the way through and not yet feeling like I have to schedule my lunch break to go watch more episodes, you know?   


* Having Gina Carano shoot the other bounty hunter in the back JUST as he's pulling the trigger is one example.   Escaping the leading assassin in the galaxy AND the junior bounty hunter that got greedy is another.

Bill, I think these are valid points but at the same time.....and don’t take this the wrong way.....I’ve never gotten the vibe from you that you were all that ‘in’ to SW in the first place? I do think that for those who are more invested in the SW story and universe that this series is nothing but a home run and a much needed blood transfusion for the entire franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 24, 2020, 12:41:28 PM

Bill, I think these are valid points but at the same time.....and don’t take this the wrong way.....I’ve never gotten the vibe from you that you were all that ‘in’ to SW in the first place? I do think that for those who are more invested in the SW story and universe that this series is nothing but a home run and a much needed blood transfusion for the entire franchise.


100%, and no need to apologize.  I'm a very specific, peculiar Star Wars fan.  The original three are God-like to me.  I saw ANH in the theaters with my dad, and it's the first movie I ever saw TWICE in the theater (and one of the only, to this day).  I had the figures (still do), I had the cards (still do), I drew a poster in like 8th grade for art class that was Luke, Leia and Han, and (don't tell anyone) I played and LOVE the Lego Star Wars video games.   Having said that, I never got into the stuff that wasn't DIRECTLY a George Lucas movie.  I never read the comics, I never read the novelizations, I haven't seen the Clone Wars... I don't know what it is.   Once you get out of the "Skywalker Universe" (so to speak), I get very... picky isn't the word, it's sort of that I lose interest. 

Having said that, I don't want anyone to think I'm shitting on what anyone else likes, or minimizing those things that anyone else likes.   I'm like this with music too (I love DT, but I have very few of the side projects or offshoots; same with Marillion. I'm not sure I have even one album by any of the current members of the band that isn't "Marillion"). 

And I'm also not done yet. It's very well crafted, and I'm sure there's a payoff here at some point.   I'm a fan of the actors too; Carl Weathers, Pedro Pascal, Warner Herzog...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 24, 2020, 01:01:28 PM
The Lego Star Wars video games are amazing.  I'll tell anyone I want!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 24, 2020, 03:55:44 PM
Based on the Luke response, i would like them to do either a show or movie/movies covering Jedi Academy.  Post return of the jedi that is.

That's a series I would definitely pay for or a movie that I would go and see (if movie theaters still exist that is)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 26, 2020, 08:06:32 AM
The Making of Season 2 documentary was pretty cool. I wish it had been a multiple episode thing like season 1 instead of just a single 1 hour thing. The Volume is pretty sweet. That thing is the future of movie making for sure.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 26, 2020, 11:51:55 AM
The Making of Season 2 documentary was pretty cool. I wish it had been a multiple episode thing like season 1 instead of just a single 1 hour thing. The Volume is pretty sweet. That thing is the future of movie making for sure.

Yeah....the first episode was good. I like that they intentionally left out the 'Luke' talk as that has to point to a good chunk of time dedicated to it in future episodes?  What was cool as well was learning just how involved Filoni is in writing these episodes. There are countless clips of him talking through dialogue and ideas.....and specifically the one scene where he pretty much tells Favreau his idea of Din saying something that Greto says back in the day as he shoots out the lights was dumb and to think about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 27, 2020, 09:58:07 AM
I wonder what the amount of computer power needed to operate those giant screens on set?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 27, 2020, 02:37:02 PM
I wonder what the amount of computer power needed to operate those giant screens on set?

Especially given that they aren’t just screens but react to camera angles etc etc......you have to imagine it’s an ungodly amount.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 28, 2020, 09:20:08 AM
By sheer coincidence, my schedule worked out in such a way that I watched The Mandolorian season two finale and The Expanse season three finale on the same day. I started The Mandolorian a week before Christmas, and I started the Expanse back in November, and the two just kind of ended up coinciding with each other. This created a very interesting contrast for me.

On the one hand, there's The Mandolorian. I thought that season two was awesome, and I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. The connection between Baby Yoda and Mando felt emotional and real, and was a great foundation for the series. Every frame of every episode bleeds with love, joy, passion, and skill for Star Wars. In a year like 2020, that kind of thing is deeply needed. We all need more of those things in our lives. However, as the season went on, I started to feel as though the series was leaning a bit much on nostalgia, which went to a new level with the final episode. Part of me was in love, but part of me couldn't help but feel as though it was a bit... Unsatisfying? I hope I'm making sense.

On the other hand, there's The Expanse. Absolutely unbelievable. Something I've never experienced before (even though there are clear influences from other sci-fi franchises). Unpredictable. Always looking forward. I left season three feeling deeply satisfied, in a way that The Mandolorian did not deliver for me, but also in a way that I'm not sure is possible for Star Wars to deliver anymore. Perhaps there's too much history there, too many fan expectations, and too much already said.

I apologize for sounding like a downer. I genuinely had a blast with The Mandolorian, and I can't wait for next season, but watching it at the same time as The Expanse also highlighted some aspects of the franchise that I feel are getting a bit limiting. I'm not sure how many more times I can sit through a semi-original Star Wars story that ends with a PT/OT character cameo at the end. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 28, 2020, 09:24:24 AM
The Making of Season 2 documentary was pretty cool. I wish it had been a multiple episode thing like season 1 instead of just a single 1 hour thing. The Volume is pretty sweet. That thing is the future of movie making for sure.

Yeah....the first episode was good. I like that they intentionally left out the 'Luke' talk as that has to point to a good chunk of time dedicated to it in future episodes?
No future episodes.  Season 1 of Gallery was 8 episodes, Season 2 was this one hour-long episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 28, 2020, 10:00:31 AM
The Making of Season 2 documentary was pretty cool. I wish it had been a multiple episode thing like season 1 instead of just a single 1 hour thing. The Volume is pretty sweet. That thing is the future of movie making for sure.

Yeah....the first episode was good. I like that they intentionally left out the 'Luke' talk as that has to point to a good chunk of time dedicated to it in future episodes?
No future episodes.  Season 1 of Gallery was 8 episodes, Season 2 was this one hour-long episode.

Noooooooooooooooo  :'(
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 28, 2020, 07:02:56 PM
So....... foot in mouth.  I watched eps 6, 7 and 8 of season one, and man.  Wow.   Did it pick up the pace.   I thought 6 was SO much better than that which came before (plus, Bill Burr!) and 7 and 8 were even better.

I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure I now have a thing now for Gina Carano, too.  She can shock my trooper any time she wants. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 28, 2020, 07:13:24 PM
I went down a YouTube rabbit hole of watching Gina Carano’s old MMA fights. She was a badass. Was surprised to learn she ‘only’ had 7 professional fights though then didn’t return to the ring after her acting career took off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 29, 2020, 11:30:11 AM
I'm watching the docs for season 1 before I watch season 2.    Mostly fascinating - the back story, the behind the scenes technology, the "how do they do that?", the George stories (they talk of him as if he was a god, it's amazing) - but there is some of it that is annoying. There's a whiff of "in crowd" with some of the lingo and terminology, and a certain level of back-slapping when it comes to talking about art that gets tiresome.   

I'll find a picture (and get her approval) but if anyone wants an idea of what my wife looks like, a blonder, skinnier (that's no judgment, just observation) Bryce Dallas Howard is a good start.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on January 01, 2021, 06:31:19 AM
Working my way slowly through Clone Wars and it's starting to get pretty good. The first season was... fine, fun enough but had very little that felt particularly interesting or gripping. In the second half of season 2 now and it it's been getting a lot better throughout the season - the animation is better, the characters have more character, and there's more emotional and narrative tension in the stories, especially the Mandalore arc which I'm currently in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 01, 2021, 10:01:22 AM
Working my way slowly through Clone Wars and it's starting to get pretty good. The first season was... fine, fun enough but had very little that felt particularly interesting or gripping. In the second half of season 2 now and it it's been getting a lot better throughout the season - the animation is better, the characters have more character, and there's more emotional and narrative tension in the stories, especially the Mandalore arc which I'm currently in.

Cool. It only improves the further you go along. Culminating in an incredible final four episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 02, 2021, 12:20:55 PM
Here's a controversial opinion: The Mandalorian, as great as it really is, is full of fan service.

Hear me out. I'm a big Star Wars fan, and I'm even one to constantly defend the absurdly trashed sequels because I really don't think they're as bad as some people insist they are (mostly because haters are louder than supporters). To be honest with y'all, my favorite movie out of the three sequels is The Last Jedi. Although far from perfect, it's a challenging movie that I always tend to enjoy.

That being said, I of course loved The Mandalorian with all my heart but I really feel the extra-polarized comments in the lines of "one single episode was better than 3 movies olol thank you Filoni" are a bit out of place because The Mandalorian, although its very well-paced storytelling, has a fair share of fan service that is clearly aimed to "recover" the lost fans with a smart sweep of fan favorites like Ashoka Tano, Boba Fett and, of course, Luke Skywalker. Don't get me wrong, I was absolutely stoked to see these characters make an appearance in the show but in my book Boba Fett's return was every bit as shady and unclear as Palpatine's during Episode IX which of course received its fair share of hate from the loud, vocal fans. I mean, at least Palpatine has this whole dark side-cloning-unnatural things going on with him unlike Boba Fett that survived his encounter with the Sarlaac just for plot purposes. Once again, don't get me wrong, I was excited to see him and I'm also excited for his upcoming series, but there's no bigger fan service than bringing back a character that was made hugely popular by the fans with an expanded, greater role. No complaints here, but just an observation.

I'm really excited with the things Disney is doing with Star Wars, and I have nothing but gratitude because I really didn't think I would never watch any new live action Star Wars after Revenge of the Sith.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on January 02, 2021, 01:30:12 PM
The Mandalorian is definitely full of fan-service but I don't see that as a bad thing, particularly because it's always done in a way that makes sense - and sometimes is integral - to the story being told.

I think part of the reason people feel comfortable with Boba coming back and less so with Palpatine isn't so much about what's more or less plausible (this is Star Wars, it's not really about plausibility), but what makes sense narratively. The fanbase has long considered Boba's apparent demise in the original films to be abrupt and anticlimactic so bringing him back (initially in TM, and then with his own show next year) allows the character to be developed and more of his story to be told. Whereas Palpatine's death at the hands of Vader/Anakin in ROTJ is absolutely essential to the story, so to then have him come back makes that moment in ROTJ much less meaningful.

I agree with you about The Last Jedi though, great film and my second favourite of the lot after Empire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on January 02, 2021, 01:35:37 PM
I don't know if anyone would disagree that The Mandalorian is full of fan service.  To me, the important question is whether it's "too much" -- and everybody has different threshholds for that.  Personally, I think they've done a damned good job of incorporating elements and characters from other Star Wars properties and media, without relying on them or relying on people recognizing them in order for it to work.  I try to put myself in the place of someone who's never seen any Star Wars at all prior to The Mandalorian.  I didn't know who Bo-Katan, Ahsoka Tano, Boba Fett, or ever Luke Skywalker were before this.  I do now, because of how their characters were handled.  Organically, appropriate to the overall story, and without fanfare.  Actually I only know the name Luke Skywalker because I asked who that guy was who showed up at the end of Chapter 16.  (I don't think he was ever named on screen, though obviously everybody knew who he was.)

Nearly every character so far has been handled extremely well.  No previous Star Wars knowledge required, but lots of extra payoff for whatever else you're familiar with.  It's been pretty much perfect so far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on January 02, 2021, 01:42:41 PM
I don't like how a lot of new movies now are just a nod to something else. Or a soft reboot - where it's chronologically a sequel but is basically structurally a remake of the OG movie.

I'm not big on fan service either. I loved The Force Awakens and didn't think Last Jedi was really that bad. Loved Rise Of Skywalker cause I actually WANTED it

to be 2 hours of silly over the top *entertainment* and that's what I got. I even enjoyed SOLO. But the Darth vader lightsaber scene in Rogue One did nothing for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 02, 2021, 02:27:18 PM
The difference in the fan service in the Mandalorian vs the sequel trilogy is what ariich mentioned. Any of the perceived fan service in the Mandalorian ‘fits’ the story and is not forced into place. Its all been used in the perfect amount to effectively tell the story AND appeal to the psyche of the average SW ‘fan’. Most if not all the fan service the sequel series felt forced and didn’t have the seamless incorporation that was present in the Mandalorian.

Honestly.....and I’m sorry if this offends anyone and is taken personally......I think any of the whining and complaining about ‘fan service’ in the Mandalorian is being suggested by a segment of the SW ‘fan’ base that have an unattainable expectation of how SW should or has been handled and will NEVER be satisfied with ANY output of SW material. I don’t think you can handle or create a SW series or show any better than they’ve done with the Mandalorian.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 02, 2021, 03:20:01 PM
The only time there was a little too much fan service for me was the first time they visited Tatooine. There were a few too many references crammed into that one episode. But it wasn't really that big of a deal. Other than that I've enjoyed the hell out of the fan service and felt it was just the right amount.

I think any of the whining and complaining about ‘fan service’ in the Mandalorian is being suggested by a segment of the SW ‘fan’ base that have an unattainable expectation of how SW should or has been handled and will NEVER be satisfied with ANY output of SW material.
I absolutely think a large chunk of the Star Wars fanbase, particularly of the generation like me who grew up with only the original trilogy, will never be happy with anything new. Ever. They'll continue to see it all and bash it at worst or nitpick it to death at best.

I personally have loved everything with the Star Wars name on it. I loved the prequels (though they haven't aged very well) and have loved the Disney era. Some is better than others of course, but it's all freaking Star Wars and as long as there's some familiar music, or sound effects, or characters, they're going to pull me in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 02, 2021, 03:25:58 PM
I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on January 02, 2021, 03:30:31 PM
I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Write and direct? No thank you.

Help develop? Sure!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 02, 2021, 04:08:04 PM
I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Write and direct? No thank you.

Help develop? Sure!

Yeah. No directing. Develop and create.....absolutely.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 02, 2021, 04:50:43 PM
I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Write and direct? No thank you.

Help develop? Sure!

Yeah. No directing. Develop and create.....absolutely.

Absolutely agreed in all accounts. Lucas' talent would be best used in an advising/development stage, as he could easily lay out a strong backstory with great characters that could be further developed by better writers/directors.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, I do enjoy thoroughly the sequels but I agree that one of their weakest points is that the three movies are all over the place plot-wise. It's obvious there wasn't a master plan, or a finish line if you may, that could keep the whole thing tied up together. The prequels, as weak as they are at some points (sand, anyone?) have that going for them. They all feel very cohesive and the tone really develops throughout the three films.

This being said, I'm really not up for a reboot of the events after The Return of the Jedi. Star Wars canon is really confusing as it is, and although they have made a clear effort to differentiate canon from "Legends" it's still all over the place. I'd rather have a new trilogy, set maybe after the events of Rise of Skywalker or maybe the Old Republic (that's something that would be wonderful) with Lucas involved, but kinda letting the sequel trilogy stay as it is. Fans should not get to dictate what is canon/official and what is not. It's OK if you didn't enjoy a film and you just rather not watch it all, but going as far as to say "to me, The Last Jedi never happened" is somewhat silly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on January 02, 2021, 05:21:04 PM
It's full of properly done fan service.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 02, 2021, 05:32:08 PM
I've got no problem with Boba surviving the Sarlaac.  He's a clone of a Mandalorian, and we've seen how Din can handle himself.  It's not unreasonable to think he somehow fought his way out of the Sarlaac (Din fought his way out of a Dragon, ffs), and spent a few years wandering around Tattooine trying to find his armour.

It's full of properly done fan service.

This too.  I felt that it all fit for a purpose, not shoe-horned in like Palpatine and Lando were for Rise of Skywalker.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on January 03, 2021, 05:13:12 AM
Yeah George Lucas cannot direct. Red Letter Media have explored this extensively. Even his film Red Tails - which they reviewed.

They point out that he directs action like he's directing a soap opera. One character says a line in close up. Cut to second character saying a line in close up. etc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Podaar on January 03, 2021, 05:30:58 AM
I've got no problem with Boba surviving the Sarlaac.  He's a clone of a Mandalorian, and we've seen how Din can handle himself.  It's not unreasonable to think he somehow fought his way out of the Sarlaac (Din fought his way out of a Dragon that had previously eaten a Sarlaac, ffs), and spent a few years wandering around Tattooine trying to find his armour.

Added for emphasis.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 03, 2021, 06:58:06 AM
I've got no problem with Boba surviving the Sarlaac.  He's a clone of a Mandalorian, and we've seen how Din can handle himself.  It's not unreasonable to think he somehow fought his way out of the Sarlaac (Din fought his way out of a Dragon that had previously eaten a Sarlaac, ffs), and spent a few years wandering around Tattooine trying to find his armour.

Added for emphasis.

Good point!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on January 03, 2021, 09:39:06 AM
I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Why? Because of the loss of Carrie Fisher?  Or something else?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on January 03, 2021, 09:43:57 AM
I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Why? Because of the loss of Carrie Fisher?  Or something else?

I assume because someone else made them already. And the characters from the original trilogy are all dead.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 03, 2021, 10:02:11 AM
I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Why? Because of the loss of Carrie Fisher?  Or something else?

I assume because someone else made them already. And the characters from the original trilogy are all dead.
Exactly. This sequels involved Han, Luke and Leia. Their story is already complete.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on January 03, 2021, 01:43:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC9RI8_QYmw

Random video popped up on you YT feed: George Lucas in the background of some random documentary.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on January 03, 2021, 03:19:31 PM
I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Why? Because of the loss of Carrie Fisher?  Or something else?

I assume because someone else made them already. And the characters from the original trilogy are all dead.
Exactly. This sequels involved Han, Luke and Leia. Their story is already complete.

Oh.  I don't see any reason why George can't retcon the three sequel films.  Tell HIS version of those characters' story.  It's not like we haven't had five going on six versions of Batman, or three versions of both Superman and Spider-Man. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on January 03, 2021, 03:46:50 PM
Because that's never been Star Wars. Batman and stuff based off a different medium is just a different ball game. You have Batman and then decades upon decades of different people telling their version of that. You do not have that with Star Wars. With Star Wars you have one big universe and one big continuinity. Sure, there are a decent amount of continuinity problems, but those are all by accident, and not by design.

If George were to do his movies, he'd have to recast Leia at least, probably Ford too since he'd never come back.

But in the end, not every franchise can just do whatever they want whenever they want. This isn't based on anything but a movie series. So it's very different than Marvel or DCU or James Bond or what have you.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on January 03, 2021, 03:49:47 PM
Plus Lucas sold the rights to SW to Disney... If KK got desperate she might let GL do a trilogy and market it as GEORGE LUCAS RETURNS - knowing that it might

actually make some $$$ because people hated the "disney SW"... ( I don't ).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on January 03, 2021, 03:53:35 PM
I've got no problem with Boba surviving the Sarlaac.  He's a clone of a Mandalorian, and we've seen how Din can handle himself.  It's not unreasonable to think he somehow fought his way out of the Sarlaac (Din fought his way out of a Dragon, ffs), and spent a few years wandering around Tattooine trying to find his armour.

It's full of properly done fan service.

This too.  I felt that it all fit for a purpose, not shoe-horned in like Palpatine and Lando were for Rise of Skywalker.

Lando was hate fucked in there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on January 03, 2021, 03:54:25 PM
Plus Lucas sold the rights to SW to Disney... If KK got desperate she might let GL do a trilogy and market it as GEORGE LUCAS RETURNS - knowing that it might

actually make some $$$ because people hated the "disney SW"... ( I don't ).

I dunno. I think people were largely VERY split on 3 of the 5 Disney SW movies. I think, though obviously not exclusively, Force Awakens and Rogue One met largely positive reception. It was Solo, Last Jedi, and Rise of Skywalker that have issues, but plenty of people (though not me) think all of those movies are amazing. And they all did well enough financially.

Plus, the Mandalorian has been getting rave reviews for the most part. By the end of 2022 we'll have a good idea how well SW is doing. By that point, we'll have a few more live action shows and I think one more movie, though I might be a year off on that movie.

People generally seem to like the cartoons but they don't have the biggest audience. So if people like the Ahsoka show, the Obi-Wan show, Bobba Fett, and the others, then SW is doing fine. If a good amount of those shows fail, we're in trouble.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 03, 2021, 05:48:12 PM
I wouldn't mind Lucas taking on a more official creative consultant type of role. He give his two cents on scripts and major plot lines, maybe help create characters or something. He'd do his best to keep the Star Wars universe within the guidelines of what he intended. But he wouldn't be writing scripts or directing. I would like to see that I think.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 05, 2021, 08:55:02 AM
I wouldn't mind Lucas taking on a more official creative consultant type of role. He give his two cents on scripts and major plot lines, maybe help create characters or something. He'd do his best to keep the Star Wars universe within the guidelines of what he intended. But he wouldn't be writing scripts or directing. I would like to see that I think.

Regarding your user name, I know it's highly unlikely and a long shot but how cool would a Shadows of the Empire film be? The game was amazing, and so was the story behind it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 05, 2021, 09:30:12 AM
I read a cool idea online a couple weeks ago for a new take and look for a Star Wars series/trilogy/movie. Basically, it'd be set in that universe but not attached to anything we know at all....the only thing that connects what we know of Star Wars and this idea is the Force, and both sides of it. BUT, the premise behind this story would be it's set in a (more or less) Sith/Dark Side world and told from the point of view that the Dark side is the prevailing 'side' of the Force....the 'good' side so to speak....and that light side force users are in the minority.....but it then would follow a couple characters who are drawn to the 'light' side and are trying to break away from the dark side. I thought that'd be an interesting premise and could have the potential for a cool story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on January 05, 2021, 10:34:04 AM
I read a cool idea online a couple weeks ago for a new take and look for a Star Wars series/trilogy/movie. Basically, it'd be set in that universe but not attached to anything we know at all....the only thing that connects what we know of Star Wars and this idea is the Force, and both sides of it. BUT, the premise behind this story would be it's set in a (more or less) Sith/Dark Side world and told from the point of view that the Dark side is the prevailing 'side' of the Force....the 'good' side so to speak....and that light side force users are in the minority.....but it then would follow a couple characters who are drawn to the 'light' side and are trying to break away from the dark side. I thought that'd be an interesting premise and could have the potential for a cool story.
There have been stories a little like that in some of the video games, and yeah it could be pretty cool, depending on how they do it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 05, 2021, 10:37:05 AM
I wouldn't mind Lucas taking on a more official creative consultant type of role. He give his two cents on scripts and major plot lines, maybe help create characters or something. He'd do his best to keep the Star Wars universe within the guidelines of what he intended. But he wouldn't be writing scripts or directing. I would like to see that I think.

Regarding your user name, I know it's highly unlikely and a long shot but how cool would a Shadows of the Empire film be? The game was amazing, and so was the story behind it.
Man, its been a long freaking time since I've read the book. I didn't even know there was a game. I've been using this username for 25 years now. Yikes...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on January 05, 2021, 09:51:58 PM
I didn't even know there was a game. I've been using this username for 25 years now. Yikes...

That's hilarious! It was an amazing game at the time. That opening level flying the speeder on Hoth was really the first time in a game you could feel like you were in the SW universe (my experience anyway). Some of the levels weren't as good as others, but it was ambitious to have such varied gameplay. Have not played in years, might seem really dated now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2021, 08:37:47 AM
^  That was the Tie Fighters and X-Wings from the flying simulators that came out.  I even went and bought a joystick! You could fly the craft with the stick and reach over and hit keys on the keyboard, and it felt like you were in the cockpit!

Anyway, I watched the end of The Mandalorian.    I wish I watched it without the hype.  It was excellent, but as soon as I saw the X-Wing, I knew what was up, and it seemed to come... earlier than I expected.   I didn't cry when Mando had his moment, though it was moving.   The special effects were great, and really made it meaningful.  I don't know; I'm more intrigued with the Bo-Katan, Dark Sabre storyline, though I just don't get the affinity for Katee Sackhoff.   

I will probably watch the Boba series now, though, if only to see more of Ming-Na Wen (she's almost 60!!! Can you believe that???).   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 08, 2021, 08:57:48 AM
I just don't get the affinity for Katee Sackhoff.   

You shut your mouth!!! I will beat you with a toy red light saber  :lol    That's my girl your talking about. She's awesome in everything she does.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on January 08, 2021, 09:46:41 AM
To me, she's kinda like the Devin Townsend of sci-fi.  Yeah, I can admire and occasionally enjoy her body of work.  But overall, I just find her unnecessarily crude and vulgar, so I don't spend any amount of time following.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on January 08, 2021, 10:14:11 AM
Wait, Katee Sackhoff is crude and vulgar? I don't really "follow" her (or any actors for that matter) so I don't know what that refers to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 08, 2021, 11:08:00 AM
I just find her unnecessarily crude and vulgar, so I don't spend any amount of time following.
???
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 08, 2021, 11:29:36 AM
I just find her unnecessarily crude and vulgar, so I don't spend any amount of time following.
???

A quick interwebz search lists her as "Bitch Pudding on Robot Chicken".  I never really watched Robot Chicken, and never would've taken Bosk for a fan either.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on January 08, 2021, 12:24:28 PM
Katee is the hottest girl in Sci fi, and I will die on that hill. Her crying face is unparalleled, and if it doesn't move you, you just don't have a soul.

(don't tell Grace Park I posted that, wouldn't want her getting jelly)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2021, 01:03:43 PM
I just don't get the affinity for Katee Sackhoff.   

You shut your mouth!!! I will beat you with a toy red light saber  :lol    That's my girl your talking about. She's awesome in everything she does.
HAHA.  I'm sure she is; I've only seen her in this and Big Bang Theory.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2021, 01:20:47 PM
Katee is the hottest girl in Sci fi, and I will die on that hill. Her crying face is unparalleled, and if it doesn't move you, you just don't have a soul.

(don't tell Grace Park I posted that, wouldn't want her getting jelly)

Bold statement.   

I guess it depends on what is "sci fi", but Maren Jensen needs to be in that conversation, as does Kirstie Allie and Charlize Theron.   I get that my tastes are whack, but if we went to the Mandalorian set, I'd be nosing around Gina Carano's dressing room running interference for you. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on January 08, 2021, 01:21:13 PM
I just find her unnecessarily crude and vulgar, so I don't spend any amount of time following.
???

A quick interwebz search lists her as "Bitch Pudding on Robot Chicken".  I never really watched Robot Chicken, and never would've taken Bosk for a fan either.
In my reply I was talking about the actress rather than any of her characters, which was what I assumed bosky was talking about as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on January 08, 2021, 03:39:32 PM
Y'all talking like Morena Baccarin doesn't even exist.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 08, 2021, 04:45:43 PM
Katee is the hottest girl in Sci fi, and I will die on that hill. Her crying face is unparalleled, and if it doesn't move you, you just don't have a soul.

(don't tell Grace Park I posted that, wouldn't want her getting jelly)

We will die on that hill. I’m not sure what Bosk is talking about with the ‘vulgar’ indictment? Her characters may be.....and that was just Starbuck....but if you follow her social media she’s probably one of the kindest people alive as she’s extremely charismatic

RJ.....did you watch her in Longmire? I only ask because there’s a scene near the end of the series where she had me in tears due to how well she handled it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on January 09, 2021, 10:50:42 AM
Katee is the hottest girl in Sci fi, and I will die on that hill. Her crying face is unparalleled, and if it doesn't move you, you just don't have a soul.

(don't tell Grace Park I posted that, wouldn't want her getting jelly)

We will die on that hill. I’m not sure what Bosk is talking about with the ‘vulgar’ indictment? Her characters may be.....and that was just Starbuck....but if you follow her social media she’s probably one of the kindest people alive as she’s extremely charismatic

RJ.....did you watch her in Longmire? I only ask because there’s a scene near the end of the series where she had me in tears due to how well she handled it.

No, but I can imagine. She's one hell of a drama actress, her work in the 4th season of BSG was absolutely outstanding.


(still love you Grace  :heart)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on January 11, 2021, 02:27:25 PM
Wasn't really intending on opening up a debate about her.  I'm not really trying to make a case for why I don't care for her.  Like what you like!  :D

On a different note, I just finished reading the third and final book in the Aftermath series.  I don't really go out of my way to dig into lore outside the films, for the most part.  But these books were pretty good.  They very nicely bridge Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, and add a lot of color and texture to the SW universe that makes me actually appreciate both the Original Trilogy and Sequel trilogy more.  I really like how it fits into the overall story and gives a plausible glimpse into what would have likely happened with the first stages of the empire collapsing after Endor, and culminating with the battle of Jakku.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on January 11, 2021, 03:35:06 PM
Wasn't really intending on opening up a debate about her.  I'm not really trying to make a case for why I don't care for her.  Like what you like!  :D
To be clear, I was simply wondering what it was you were referring to. I wasn't disagreeing as I don't know what it is you mean for me to agree or disagree. :lol And of course I agree with "like what you like".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 13, 2021, 01:26:05 PM
Internet rumors (taken with a grain of salt) are saying that the Rebels sequel series that was in the works in the animation style of the last season of TCW's.....has been shelved. Speculation is that since the main characters in that series would presumptively have been Ezra Bridger, Thrawn, Sabine and Ahsoka they've just decided in lieu of the animated sequel series to shift those storylines to the Ahsoka stand alone live action show. Makes sense since the timelines for ending of Rebels and The Mandalorian were basically the same period of time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on January 13, 2021, 01:54:32 PM
So I gather than Ahsoka is revered about as much as Katee Sackhoff; am I right?  I have little interest in her character too, it seems.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 13, 2021, 02:41:41 PM
So I gather than Ashoka is revered about as much as Katee Sackhoff; am I right?  I have little interest in her character too, it seems.

In my book Ahsoka is as good as it gets when it comes to Jedi. As far as characters go and ability....she's had a great story arc. Far and away better than Rey with more depth. It'd be tough for you to appreciate fully without having followed her character path from annoying little kid to what Filoni has described as the truest form of a Jedi we've seen in any SW movie or show.

I get people aren't going to be as in to her character as me or the countless others who revere her....but when looking at her character in a strictly 'SW' universe type of way.....she'd pretty bad ass to where there are few who can compare to her and what's she's accomplished and how she's accomplished it. I mean, just her escape from Order 66 was incredible....not to mention she was asked to capture Darth Maul alive and did so.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on January 13, 2021, 03:08:22 PM
Ahsoka and Bo-Katan both seem pretty kick-ass characters, and the way their fans defend them speaks much.  But fair or unfair, characters who are only known from the animated Star Wars properties will always be in a different class to some because they are "only from the cartoons".  Canon or not.  The Skywalkers and Solos have a greater status because they were in the movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 13, 2021, 04:16:39 PM
Ahsoka and Bo-Katan both seem pretty kick-ass characters, and the way their fans defend them speaks much.  But fair or unfair, characters who are only known from the animated Star Wars properties will always be in a different class to some because they are "only from the cartoons".  Canon or not.  The Skywalkers and Solos have a greater status because they were in the movies.

I agree with you completely. I personally think those of you who don't 'know' these characters are missing out and hope that one day you'd find the time to invest to watch and see what the fuss is all about.....it's just a TON of episodes to churn through. There are 133 Clone War episdoes (at 20-25 minutes each) and 75 'Rebels' episodes at the same episode length. That's 3,325 minutes of TCW's (almost 56 hours) and 1,875 minutes of Rebels (31.5 hours)

That's a chore to get through. It takes John Wick like focus and determination  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on January 14, 2021, 11:33:08 AM
It's not the volume of material; I have a mental block about switching from the animated to the real.  And it's not just Star Wars; I'm struggling a bit with the MCU on that count too.  I don't know what it is.  It's not the animation; I watch Archer religiously and I like some of the animated Batman stuff that's out there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on January 14, 2021, 11:34:14 AM
It's not the volume of material; I have a mental block about switching from the animated to the real.  And it's not just Star Wars; I'm struggling a bit with the MCU on that count too.  I don't know what it is.  It's not the animation; I watch Archer religiously and I like some of the animated Batman stuff that's out there.

MCU? Do they have any in-continuity animated programs?

Most I can think of is What If? But that’ll be alternate realities anyway and you can skip it if you like.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on January 14, 2021, 11:36:15 AM
It's not the volume of material; I have a mental block about switching from the animated to the real.  And it's not just Star Wars; I'm struggling a bit with the MCU on that count too.  I don't know what it is.  It's not the animation; I watch Archer religiously and I like some of the animated Batman stuff that's out there.

MCU? Do they have any in-continuity animated programs?

Most I can think of is What If? But that’ll be alternate realities anyway and you can skip it if you like.

I don't know; I didn't watch them!!!   I just saw them on the "recommended for you" column on Disney+.  I almost didn't watch The Mandalorian (simply because it was episodic TV).   And if it wasn't for the Mandalorian, I'd never watch "Wandavision" (which I will now).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on January 14, 2021, 11:42:37 AM
It's not the volume of material; I have a mental block about switching from the animated to the real.  And it's not just Star Wars; I'm struggling a bit with the MCU on that count too.  I don't know what it is.  It's not the animation; I watch Archer religiously and I like some of the animated Batman stuff that's out there.

MCU? Do they have any in-continuity animated programs?

Most I can think of is What If? But that’ll be alternate realities anyway and you can skip it if you like.

I don't know; I didn't watch them!!!   I just saw them on the "recommended for you" column on Disney+.  I almost didn't watch The Mandalorian (simply because it was episodic TV).   And if it wasn't for the Mandalorian, I'd never watch "Wandavision" (which I will now).


Ohh well I'll clarify. There a whole ton of Marvel cartoons, from the 70's til now. Some are Avengers, X-Men, Spider-Man, etc. However, none of them, at all, are connected to the MCU. So if you don't dig cartoons, feel free to ignore them all. Though X-Men the animated series from the early 90's is a real gem.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on January 14, 2021, 01:10:33 PM
It's not the volume of material; I have a mental block about switching from the animated to the real.  And it's not just Star Wars; I'm struggling a bit with the MCU on that count too.  I don't know what it is.  It's not the animation; I watch Archer religiously and I like some of the animated Batman stuff that's out there.

MCU? Do they have any in-continuity animated programs?

Most I can think of is What If? But that’ll be alternate realities anyway and you can skip it if you like.

I don't know; I didn't watch them!!!   I just saw them on the "recommended for you" column on Disney+.  I almost didn't watch The Mandalorian (simply because it was episodic TV).   And if it wasn't for the Mandalorian, I'd never watch "Wandavision" (which I will now).

Yeah, I hear you on that.  Not sure why that is, but it's a real thing and definitely isn't just you. 

I had started Clone Wars a few times, and never got more than halfway through season 1.  Part of it was that mental block.  Part of it was that most of the earlier episodes ranged from pretty bad to just okay.  Given the stay at home order, it was easy to let them play while working on some days, so I eventually plowed through the whole thing, and there were actually some very good story lines.  Asoka turned from a very annoying character into a pretty good one.  I wouldn't put here up nearly as high as Gary does.  But she's a solid character, and better than quite a few in the films, if you ask me.

I need to bite the bullet and do the same with Rebels.  I think I got about halfway through season 1 on that a couple of months ago and bailed because it was so bad.  But I'll give it another shot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on January 22, 2021, 09:37:56 PM
Sorry for being behind, but just finished The Mandalorian. Amazing, top notch stuff all the way around. Congrats Disney+ and everyone involved on a job well done. Wishing I watched it in real time so I could have participated in the discussions here.

Goddamn post-credits scene, would not have known about it without stumbling upon it doing some internet reading.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on January 23, 2021, 09:48:20 AM
Season 2 ended on a good note.  I'd be fine if they just ended the series there, honestly, and let the Boba Fett thing be its own, separate story from here on (which I am not clear on whether or not that is what they are doing).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 23, 2021, 11:07:24 AM
Season 2 ended on a good note.  I'd be fine if they just ended the series there, honestly, and let the Boba Fett thing be its own, separate story from here on (which I am not clear on whether or not that is what they are doing).
I thought it seemed like they intentionally wrote the episode so they could just end the series there if they wanted to. But given the success of it, I can understand why they don't want to.

My understanding is the The Mandalorian, The Book of Boba Fett, Rangers of the New Republic, and Ahsoka all take place in the same timeline and will all come together for a giant crossover event in the future. Whether there will be much crossover in the initial season(s) remains to be seen I guess.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 23, 2021, 02:15:14 PM
Season 2 ended on a good note.  I'd be fine if they just ended the series there, honestly, and let the Boba Fett thing be its own, separate story from here on (which I am not clear on whether or not that is what they are doing).
I thought it seemed like they intentionally wrote the episode so they could just end the series there if they wanted to. But given the success of it, I can understand why they don't want to.

My understanding is the The Mandalorian, The Book of Boba Fett, Rangers of the New Republic, and Ahsoka all take place in the same timeline and will all come together for a giant crossover event in the future. Whether there will be much crossover in the initial season(s) remains to be seen I guess.

That’s the understanding I have as well. I’m sure they have an idea for S3 and I’ll trust them until they give me a reason not to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 25, 2021, 03:51:10 PM
I would guess that the big crossover would involved something like Grand Admiral Thrawn trying to conquer Mandalor, or something like that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 27, 2021, 10:42:30 AM
Season 2 ended on a good note.  I'd be fine if they just ended the series there, honestly, and let the Boba Fett thing be its own, separate story from here on (which I am not clear on whether or not that is what they are doing).
Good point. This was a story not only of Mando but of Grogu, and by this point it would be easily assumed that Mando already fulfilled his purpose of delivering Grogu with one of his kind.

But the big Disney machine likes dollars, and Star Wars is their big cow right now (particularly The Mandalorian) which they aren't letting it go any time soon. I have no problem with that, tho. The writing is so consistently good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on February 01, 2021, 08:35:55 PM
Finally got to see the making of season two of the Mandalorian. Not as exhausting as the 8 episode gallery series of season one but still some great stuff in there. Obviously one disappointing part was them not showing anything related to the final 15 mins of the finale which makes me sorta think it was shot much later than the rest of the episode and season. Either that or there's some of it spilling into season 3 and they might want to just show it off then.

I missed the part in season one where Ming Na's character is met by a set of footsteps and they teased Boba right then itself. Great stuff!

I can't imagine how much fun it must be working on some of the sets and episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on February 03, 2021, 05:42:54 PM
Mandalorian gets a nod for best drama series in the Golden Globes, definitely worthy in my books. Curious if this is the first time a sci fi series got a nomination, can't remember if BSG did or not.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 04, 2021, 04:57:51 AM
Mandalorian gets a nod for best drama series in the Golden Globes, definitely worthy in my books. Curious if this is the first time a sci fi series got a nomination, can't remember if BSG did or not.

That’s awesome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 11, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
I’m out of pocket so it’s tough to link things but Gina Carano has been fired from the Mandalorian for her having a different set of beliefs than the majority of the heavily liberal Hollywood.

Not to say I agree with anything or everything she says.....but the fact she’s been fired for expressing her freedom of speech is scary. Pretty sad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Grappler on February 11, 2021, 08:00:15 AM
I’m out of pocket so it’s tough to link things but Gina Carano has been fired from the Mandalorian for her having a different set of beliefs than the majority of the heavily liberal Hollywood.

Not to say I agree with anything or everything she says.....but the fact she’s been fired for expressing her freedom of speech is scary. Pretty sad.

She's said some really crazy anti-democrat, anti-COVID stuff over the last six months, at least.  Hollywood is very liberal, so her views stuck out like a sore thumb.  She had an anti-trans issue when Pedro Pascal's sister came out as trans.   The straw that broke the camel's back was that she compared Republican persecution to the persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany.  That's just not cool at all.

It's not oppression of freedom of speech.  If I said the things that she said, my employer would fire me too - there are consequences for expressing your beliefs when you represent a corporation (Disney, Lucasfilm) and franchise (Star Wars).  It's why talking politics at work is a bad idea. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 11, 2021, 08:05:43 AM
I’m out of pocket so it’s tough to link things but Gina Carano has been fired from the Mandalorian for her having a different set of beliefs than the majority of the heavily liberal Hollywood.

Not to say I agree with anything or everything she says.....but the fact she’s been fired for expressing her freedom of speech is scary. Pretty sad.

She's said some really crazy anti-democrat, anti-COVID stuff over the last six months, at least.  Hollywood is very liberal, so her views stuck out like a sore thumb.  She had an anti-trans issue when Pedro Pascal's sister came out as trans.   The straw that broke the camel's back was that she compared Republican persecution to the persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany.  That's just not cool at all.

It's not oppression of freedom of speech.  If I said the things that she said, my employer would fire me too - there are consequences for expressing your beliefs when you represent a corporation (Disney, Lucasfilm) and franchise (Star Wars).  It's why talking politics at work is a bad idea.

It’s probably best to take this to P/R. All I can say is if we sift through things that Rosario Dawson or Pedro Pascal have said I’m sure there’d be plenty of people who’s find their beliefs offensive. Her Jew/Conservative comparison wasn’t as inflammatory as its being led on either. Anyways.....it was just a matter of time because like you said she Stuck out like a sore thumb being the only conservative ‘voice’ on a show that’s in an industry of out of touch liberal minded people.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 11, 2021, 08:17:51 AM
I’m out of pocket so it’s tough to link things but Gina Carano has been fired from the Mandalorian for her having a different set of beliefs than the majority of the heavily liberal Hollywood.

Not to say I agree with anything or everything she says.....but the fact she’s been fired for expressing her freedom of speech is scary. Pretty sad.

She's said some really crazy anti-democrat, anti-COVID stuff over the last six months, at least.  Hollywood is very liberal, so her views stuck out like a sore thumb.  She had an anti-trans issue when Pedro Pascal's sister came out as trans.   The straw that broke the camel's back was that she compared Republican persecution to the persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany.  That's just not cool at all.

It's not oppression of freedom of speech.  If I said the things that she said, my employer would fire me too - there are consequences for expressing your beliefs when you represent a corporation (Disney, Lucasfilm) and franchise (Star Wars).  It's why talking politics at work is a bad idea.

It may not be a First Amendment issue, technically, but if I had a nickel for every time someone told me - hell, I'd take a nickel for every time just JINGLE told me - that "just because it's legal doesn't make it right", I'd be lighting stogies with hundies, shooting the shit with my buddies Cuban and Bezos. 

She, like all Americans, should be judged for their work. That's what the entire identity politics movement is about, isn't it?  Connecticut just passed a law (seventh state in the Union if memory serves) that prevents an employer from firing an employee for their hair style (the idea is to protect what the crass would call "black hairstyles" from persecution).   To some, their hair is a political statement. So we're clearly saying that SOME political messages are okay but others aren't.   

I don't follow social media (much), I'm aware she's said some shit, but not aware of the specific things she said.  I just know I loved her character in the show, and I think she's hot.  The only part of any of that that should matter is "I loved her character in the show".   In all the background materials around Seasons 1 and 2, everyone was glowing and gushing about her work and her work ethic, and she was equally effusive about her co-stars and creative partners.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 11, 2021, 08:54:57 AM
it was just a matter of time because like you said she Stuck out like a sore thumb being the only conservative ‘voice’ on a show that’s in an industry of out of touch liberal minded people.
First, I object to your contention that they are out of touch.

Secondly, she should have known better.  Like it or not, in any business, there are things you don't do or don't say, or there will be repercussions.  No matter what industry you are in, you should know what those things are.  If you want to be in that industry, you need to avoid doing or saying those things.  She didn't. 

She wasn't fired because they are liberal and she is conservative.  If that were the issue, she would never have been hired in the first place.  She didn't just become a conservative this year.  She has made many posts over the last year and nothing has happened.

You can't ever compare any so-called persecuted group to what the Jews suffered under Nazi Germany.  You just can't do that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 11, 2021, 08:59:50 AM

but if I had a nickel for every time someone told me - hell, I'd take a nickel for every time just JINGLE told me - that "just because it's legal doesn't make it right", I'd be lighting stogies with hundies, shooting the shit with my buddies Cuban and Bezos. 

(http://replygif.net/i/164.gif)


People are fired for their personal actions all the time.  It's (pretty much) any company's prerogative - termination without cause.

Also... what Hef said.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on February 11, 2021, 09:01:25 AM
Gina Carano has been fired from the Mandalorian for her having a different set of beliefs

...she’s been fired for expressing her freedom of speech

It is not the first one, but the second.  You can believe anything you want.  You can think anything you want.  What you can't do say shit that pisses people off and not expect there to be consequences.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: kaos2900 on February 11, 2021, 09:01:47 AM
As much as I liked her character and would love to have her toss me around, she was warned by her employer the last time her postings came up. She chose not to listen to the warning and is now facing the consequences.

That said, I personally don't think what she's posted was all that bad. I get what she was trying to say, but I also understand why some would be offended by the posts.


One thing I find troubling is this trend that society is branding people 'phobic' even if they really aren't simply because they don't agree. Best example of this is JK Rowling. IGN posted a ridiculous Op-Ed piece about how Harry Potter fans are dealing with her being transphobic. All she said is that Trans women aren't genetically women but still expressed the opinion that they deserve equal rights.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on February 11, 2021, 09:08:19 AM
it was just a matter of time because like you said she Stuck out like a sore thumb being the only conservative ‘voice’ on a show that’s in an industry of out of touch liberal minded people.
First, I object to your contention that they are out of touch.

Secondly, she should have known better.  Like it or not, in any business, there are things you don't do or don't say, or there will be repercussions.  No matter what industry you are in, you should know what those things are.  If you want to be in that industry, you need to avoid doing or saying those things.  She didn't. 

She wasn't fired because they are liberal and she is conservative.  If that were the issue, she would never have been hired in the first place.  She didn't just become a conservative this year.  She has made many posts over the last year and nothing has happened.

You can't ever compare any so-called persecuted group to what the Jews suffered under Nazi Germany.  You just can't do that.
All of this.

I'm not celebrating or anything, but I think this was the right call by Disney/LucasFilm.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 11, 2021, 09:22:45 AM

but if I had a nickel for every time someone told me - hell, I'd take a nickel for every time just JINGLE told me - that "just because it's legal doesn't make it right", I'd be lighting stogies with hundies, shooting the shit with my buddies Cuban and Bezos. 

(http://replygif.net/i/164.gif)


People are fired for their personal actions all the time.  It's (pretty much) any company's prerogative - termination without cause.

Also... what Hef said.

It's not though. That's why I added the reference to the "CROWN" law (that's what it's called) in Connecticut.  Only CERTAIN personal actions, and it's not ALWAYS the company's prerogative.  Only when it fits the narrative.

And I'm not saying that Disney CAN'T. That's unassailable at this point.  I'm saying that mayhaps they probably shouldn't and CERTAINLY we probably shouldn't be so morally sanctimonious that this is "right".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 11, 2021, 09:24:51 AM
Gina Carano has been fired from the Mandalorian for her having a different set of beliefs

...she’s been fired for expressing her freedom of speech

It is not the first one, but the second.  You can believe anything you want.  You can think anything you want.  What you can't do say shit that pisses people off and not expect there to be consequences.

Well, you CAN, you just can't say the WRONG things that piss the RIGHT people off.  That last statement effectively makes the first two meaningless.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 11, 2021, 09:26:47 AM
it was just a matter of time because like you said she Stuck out like a sore thumb being the only conservative ‘voice’ on a show that’s in an industry of out of touch liberal minded people.
First, I object to your contention that they are out of touch.

Secondly, she should have known better.  Like it or not, in any business, there are things you don't do or don't say, or there will be repercussions.  No matter what industry you are in, you should know what those things are.  If you want to be in that industry, you need to avoid doing or saying those things.  She didn't. 

She wasn't fired because they are liberal and she is conservative.  If that were the issue, she would never have been hired in the first place.  She didn't just become a conservative this year.  She has made many posts over the last year and nothing has happened.

You can't ever compare any so-called persecuted group to what the Jews suffered under Nazi Germany.  You just can't do that.

The only thing I disagree with what you said is ‘Hollywood’ not being out of touch with how the average American lives and what reality is for the majority of people. They’re a privileged class of people....I don’t know how you can argue they aren’t?

Any type of Nazi/Jew comparison will garner attention and is usually a lightning rod for criticism.  I don’t condone it or defend it. My entire point is that again.....we’re the roles reversed and Rosario Dawson tweeted that Donald Trump’s speech prior to the Capitol riots was exactly like Hitler speaking to his troops to encourage them in war.....she’d keep her job and probably be celebrated.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 11, 2021, 09:40:35 AM
it was just a matter of time because like you said she Stuck out like a sore thumb being the only conservative ‘voice’ on a show that’s in an industry of out of touch liberal minded people.
First, I object to your contention that they are out of touch.

Secondly, she should have known better.  Like it or not, in any business, there are things you don't do or don't say, or there will be repercussions.  No matter what industry you are in, you should know what those things are.  If you want to be in that industry, you need to avoid doing or saying those things.  She didn't. 

She wasn't fired because they are liberal and she is conservative.  If that were the issue, she would never have been hired in the first place.  She didn't just become a conservative this year.  She has made many posts over the last year and nothing has happened.

You can't ever compare any so-called persecuted group to what the Jews suffered under Nazi Germany.  You just can't do that.

The only thing I disagree with what you said is ‘Hollywood’ not being out of touch with how the average American lives and what reality is for the majority of people. They’re a privileged class of people....I don’t know how you can argue they aren’t?

Any type of Nazi/Jew comparison will garner attention and is usually a lightning rod for criticism.  I don’t condone it or defend it. My entire point is that again.....we’re the roles reversed and Rosario Dawson tweeted that Donald Trump’s speech prior to the Capitol riots was exactly like Hitler speaking to his troops to encourage them in war.....she’d keep her job and probably be celebrated.

To Gary's point:  Google "Trump is Hitler", and on the first page there are:
"Pro-Trump rioters storming the Capitol bear echoes of Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch"
"Is it wrong to compare Trump to Hitler? No."
"One scholar on similiarities, substantial differences between Trump and Hitler"
"Thirteen similarities between Donald Trump and Adolf Hitler"
"Trump and Trumpism:  Memories of Hitler"

To be fair, there are two headlines - both Opinion pieces - that disagree.

But under "Top Stories", Spike Lee, on January 24th, said:  "Donald Trump will do down in history with the likes of Hitler".   I'm blanking; was he fired from his latest project?  Actually, no, he was receiving an award at the time of his remarks (https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2021/01/24/spike-lee-speech-donald-trump-hitler-new-york-film-critics/6696493002/).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 11, 2021, 09:51:01 AM
It's not though. That's why I added the reference to the "CROWN" law (that's what it's called) in Connecticut.  Only CERTAIN personal actions, and it's not ALWAYS the company's prerogative. 

Well, here in Canada, there are very few circumstances where a company has any real blockers to "termination without cause".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 11, 2021, 10:00:59 AM
It's not though. That's why I added the reference to the "CROWN" law (that's what it's called) in Connecticut.  Only CERTAIN personal actions, and it's not ALWAYS the company's prerogative. 

Well, here in Canada, there are very few circumstances where a company has any real blockers to "termination without cause".
Which is as it should be.  They SHOULD be able to fire for any reason or no reason at all.  We have less integrity down here.   ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 11, 2021, 11:43:05 AM
it was just a matter of time because like you said she Stuck out like a sore thumb being the only conservative ‘voice’ on a show that’s in an industry of out of touch liberal minded people.
First, I object to your contention that they are out of touch.

Secondly, she should have known better.  Like it or not, in any business, there are things you don't do or don't say, or there will be repercussions.  No matter what industry you are in, you should know what those things are.  If you want to be in that industry, you need to avoid doing or saying those things.  She didn't. 

She wasn't fired because they are liberal and she is conservative.  If that were the issue, she would never have been hired in the first place.  She didn't just become a conservative this year.  She has made many posts over the last year and nothing has happened.

You can't ever compare any so-called persecuted group to what the Jews suffered under Nazi Germany.  You just can't do that.

The only thing I disagree with what you said is ‘Hollywood’ not being out of touch with how the average American lives and what reality is for the majority of people. They’re a privileged class of people....I don’t know how you can argue they aren’t?

Any type of Nazi/Jew comparison will garner attention and is usually a lightning rod for criticism.  I don’t condone it or defend it. My entire point is that again.....we’re the roles reversed and Rosario Dawson tweeted that Donald Trump’s speech prior to the Capitol riots was exactly like Hitler speaking to his troops to encourage them in war.....she’d keep her job and probably be celebrated.

To Gary's point:  Google "Trump is Hitler", and on the first page there are:
"Pro-Trump rioters storming the Capitol bear echoes of Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch"
"Is it wrong to compare Trump to Hitler? No."
"One scholar on similiarities, substantial differences between Trump and Hitler"
"Thirteen similarities between Donald Trump and Adolf Hitler"
"Trump and Trumpism:  Memories of Hitler"

To be fair, there are two headlines - both Opinion pieces - that disagree.

But under "Top Stories", Spike Lee, on January 24th, said:  "Donald Trump will do down in history with the likes of Hitler".   I'm blanking; was he fired from his latest project?  Actually, no, he was receiving an award at the time of his remarks (https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2021/01/24/spike-lee-speech-donald-trump-hitler-new-york-film-critics/6696493002/).
Yeah, people have made comparisons between Trump and Hitler (and between other people and Hitler - Trump wasn't the first).

People don't typically complain about being "persecuted" and compare themselves to the Jews killed by the Nazis.  That's like the third rail.  She wasn't fired because she's conservative, she was fired because she's an idiot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 11, 2021, 11:55:37 AM
People don't typically complain about being "persecuted" and compare themselves to the Jews killed by the Nazis.  That's like the third rail.  She wasn't fired because she's conservative, she was fired because she's an idiot.

What she said :

"Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children. Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views,”

What's wrong with that question? Seriously? Especially in today's climate of 'Us vs Them'. Maybe it's the straw that broke the camels back in her case....death by a thousand cuts so to speak but that statement pales in comparison to statements that are/have been routinely made about Trump and trump supporters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Grappler on February 11, 2021, 12:03:38 PM
People don't typically complain about being "persecuted" and compare themselves to the Jews killed by the Nazis.  That's like the third rail.  She wasn't fired because she's conservative, she was fired because she's an idiot.

What she said :

"Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children. Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views,”

What's wrong with that question? Seriously? Especially in today's climate of 'Us vs Them'. Maybe it's the straw that broke the camels back in her case....death by a thousand cuts so to speak but that statement pales in comparison to statements that are/have been routinely made about Trump and trump supporters.

Trump supporters were not rounded up onto trains and forced into concentration camps, being murdered by the millions, just because they supported him.

It's one thing to feel persecuted, but it's another to truly be persecuted.  It's not an equal comparison in this case - "ooh, my neighbor doesn't like my Trump yard sign" is not comparable to "Nazi soldiers put me in Auschwitz and I watched my grandparents die."

Hollywood also employs a great number of people of Jewish faith, including some of the most powerful and recognizable names, like Steven Spielberg.  Trying to compare their history to being a Trump supporter isn't going to generate any respect from them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on February 11, 2021, 12:07:01 PM
What's wrong with that question?

It is pretty clear that what is "wrong" with the question is that the person asking it does not hold the "right" view on the answer to the question.  Hef's opinion notwithstanding, it is clearly viewpoint discrimination, and there isn't really any good argument to the contrary.

Again, going back to prior points, that isn't necessarily illegal, and Disney is entitled to do what they want--legally, anyway.  But it's pretty clear in the present climate that you can get away with saying things that are outrageous and offensive if they are coming from the "correct" side of the political aisle, but cannot if coming from the "wrong" side. 

I mean, we can look at her post at face value, and poke all kinds of holes in it.  But a mature, unbiased response is, "Yeah, you are off base, and here's why your argument fails."  Instead, the response is, "How dare you even ask the question!  You're fired."


**EDIT:  And, yeah, I realize the last handful of posts have crossed over well into P/R territory.  If anyone has anything they really feel the need to express on the subject, go ahead and say it.  As I often say, even though it technically should go elsewhere, sometimes, there is some inevitable bleed over into areas outside a thread topic, or outside what is usually allowed, etc.  But let's keep it reasonable and not turn it into a protracted debate.  If people want to debate the finer points beyond simply posting their opinion here, I suggest a thread in P/R for it.**
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 11, 2021, 12:27:17 PM
People don't typically complain about being "persecuted" and compare themselves to the Jews killed by the Nazis.  That's like the third rail.  She wasn't fired because she's conservative, she was fired because she's an idiot.

What she said :

"Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children. Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views,”

What's wrong with that question? Seriously? Especially in today's climate of 'Us vs Them'. Maybe it's the straw that broke the camels back in her case....death by a thousand cuts so to speak but that statement pales in comparison to statements that are/have been routinely made about Trump and trump supporters.
First of all, I don't have a problem with her.  I didn't fire her.  But I can see why she was fired.

In today's climate, the people I see getting beaten for political reasons are getting beaten BY conservatives.  In today's climate of Us vs Them, liberals aren't storming capitals in Michigan, DC, or anywhere else, and no conservatives are actually being persecuted.  Again, comparisons with what the Jews went through simply aren't done, and I suspect that it was, in fact, the straw that broke the camel's back.  Again, she isn't any different a person now than she was before they hired her.  If the only problem was her political stance, she never would have been hired in the first place. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on February 11, 2021, 12:50:13 PM
I'll just say I disagree with almost every sentence in that post, and I see a big double standard that I think you fail to acknowledge, and I'll just leave it at that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 11, 2021, 01:17:59 PM
I'll just say I disagree with almost every sentence in that post, and I see a big double standard that I think you fail to acknowledge, and I'll just leave it at that.
lol OK
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 11, 2021, 02:35:06 PM
People don't typically complain about being "persecuted" and compare themselves to the Jews killed by the Nazis.  That's like the third rail.  She wasn't fired because she's conservative, she was fired because she's an idiot.

What she said :

"Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children. Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views,”

What's wrong with that question? Seriously? Especially in today's climate of 'Us vs Them'. Maybe it's the straw that broke the camels back in her case....death by a thousand cuts so to speak but that statement pales in comparison to statements that are/have been routinely made about Trump and trump supporters.

Trump supporters were not rounded up onto trains and forced into concentration camps, being murdered by the millions, just because they supported him.

It's one thing to feel persecuted, but it's another to truly be persecuted.  It's not an equal comparison in this case - "ooh, my neighbor doesn't like my Trump yard sign" is not comparable to "Nazi soldiers put me in Auschwitz and I watched my grandparents die."

Hollywood also employs a great number of people of Jewish faith, including some of the most powerful and recognizable names, like Steven Spielberg.  Trying to compare their history to being a Trump supporter isn't going to generate any respect from them.

No one said they were.  The point was about the government sowing division between people's that should know better and who have a vested interest in staying unified.   I won't argue that she's using a sledgehammer to open a watermelon, but she's not wrong.

And we'll have to agree to disagree if you don't see that some political viewpoints are treated with more dignity and respect than other ones (and I'm not even talking about the whackadoo extreme positions.  I've LITERALLY been asked "you want to kill children?" in a conversation about Obamacare).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 11, 2021, 02:37:43 PM
People don't typically complain about being "persecuted" and compare themselves to the Jews killed by the Nazis.  That's like the third rail.  She wasn't fired because she's conservative, she was fired because she's an idiot.

What she said :

"Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children. Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views,”

What's wrong with that question? Seriously? Especially in today's climate of 'Us vs Them'. Maybe it's the straw that broke the camels back in her case....death by a thousand cuts so to speak but that statement pales in comparison to statements that are/have been routinely made about Trump and trump supporters.
First of all, I don't have a problem with her.  I didn't fire her.  But I can see why she was fired.

In today's climate, the people I see getting beaten for political reasons are getting beaten BY conservatives.  In today's climate of Us vs Them, liberals aren't storming capitals in Michigan, DC, or anywhere else, and no conservatives are actually being persecuted.  Again, comparisons with what the Jews went through simply aren't done, and I suspect that it was, in fact, the straw that broke the camel's back.  Again, she isn't any different a person now than she was before they hired her.  If the only problem was her political stance, she never would have been hired in the first place.

Hef, read her whole statement.  It has nothing to do with people being beaten in the streets.  It's about the GOVERNMENT, and how they FIRST - before they captured and tortured and killed their own citizens - first set them against each other. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on February 11, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
People don't typically complain about being "persecuted" and compare themselves to the Jews killed by the Nazis.  That's like the third rail.  She wasn't fired because she's conservative, she was fired because she's an idiot.

What she said :

"Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children. Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views,”

What's wrong with that question? Seriously? Especially in today's climate of 'Us vs Them'. Maybe it's the straw that broke the camels back in her case....death by a thousand cuts so to speak but that statement pales in comparison to statements that are/have been routinely made about Trump and trump supporters.
First of all, I don't have a problem with her.  I didn't fire her.  But I can see why she was fired.

In today's climate, the people I see getting beaten for political reasons are getting beaten BY conservatives.  In today's climate of Us vs Them, liberals aren't storming capitals in Michigan, DC, or anywhere else, and no conservatives are actually being persecuted.  Again, comparisons with what the Jews went through simply aren't done, and I suspect that it was, in fact, the straw that broke the camel's back.  Again, she isn't any different a person now than she was before they hired her.  If the only problem was her political stance, she never would have been hired in the first place.

Hef, read her whole statement.  It has nothing to do with people being beaten in the streets.  It's about the GOVERNMENT, and how they FIRST - before they captured and tortured and killed their own citizens - first set them against each other.

I'm trying not to engage much in this conversation, but I will say that this is your interpretation of what she said. It's perfectly valid, and it's an interpretation. As is most of what other people are reading into it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 11, 2021, 03:15:25 PM
That sounds vaguely dismissive.  The words are what the words are.   To me there's no "interpretation" there; it's plainly clear on its face.   If anything, the "interpretation" is trying to get it to say something else.

What IS the difference between one citizen of this country hating another for being Jewish or hating them for being a liberal?   ESPECIALLY  if your world view is predicated, nominally, on being "tolerant" and against hate?  Any of the rationales either way rely on extrapolating "Jewish" or "liberal" (or any other word you would slip in there) out beyond the mere state of being, because that's all they are.

And it's important to point out, she didn't differentiate between liberals and conservatives, she just said "hating SOMEONE for their political views".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on February 11, 2021, 03:26:00 PM
Again. Your interpretation. Not dismissive. Statement of fact that everyone reading this is interpreting it.

If you don’t think you’re interpreting it at all and everyone who disagrees with you is simply wrong, that’s cool. Just wanted to offer a perspective. Dismiss it if you choose.

But I’m out. This is an ugly conversation.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on February 11, 2021, 03:26:09 PM
Hef, read her whole statement.  It has nothing to do with people being beaten in the streets.  It's about the GOVERNMENT, and how they FIRST - before they captured and tortured and killed their own citizens - first set them against each other. 
Which government is she accusing of doing that?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: pg1067 on February 11, 2021, 03:52:04 PM
So...the Star Wars thread now warps to the P/R section of the site?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on February 11, 2021, 05:26:36 PM
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png)

Also, the people defending her post seem to be forgetting the context it happened in. It's not like she posted one thing and got shitcanned out of nowhere, she's been posting stupid and offensive stuff for a while now, was apparently almost fired already and was on thin ice, and then she kept going. Benefit of the doubt isn't really warranted here. Also, maybe if she'd just said something afterward like 'Wow, shit, I definitely didn't mean to compare expressing opinions to being Jewish in the Holocaust and I'm really sorry it came across that way. What I actually meant was.....' I'm gonna say things would have turned out differently.

I mean seriously, people. If I had millions of followers who all knew the company I worked and I posted shit like that, I would have gotten fired for reflecting badly on the company, and I'm in fucking Tennessee.

I liked her character personally, though, so I'm kind of bummed on that front.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 11, 2021, 06:36:15 PM
But I’m out. This is an ugly conversation.

It's actually going a whole lot better than it probably is on most online forums/discussion groups, or in general discourse, I imagine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on February 11, 2021, 06:40:16 PM
Nevermind.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 11, 2021, 07:06:07 PM
People don't typically complain about being "persecuted" and compare themselves to the Jews killed by the Nazis.  That's like the third rail.  She wasn't fired because she's conservative, she was fired because she's an idiot.

What she said :

"Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children. Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views,”

What's wrong with that question? Seriously? Especially in today's climate of 'Us vs Them'. Maybe it's the straw that broke the camels back in her case....death by a thousand cuts so to speak but that statement pales in comparison to statements that are/have been routinely made about Trump and trump supporters.
First of all, I don't have a problem with her.  I didn't fire her.  But I can see why she was fired.

In today's climate, the people I see getting beaten for political reasons are getting beaten BY conservatives.  In today's climate of Us vs Them, liberals aren't storming capitals in Michigan, DC, or anywhere else, and no conservatives are actually being persecuted.  Again, comparisons with what the Jews went through simply aren't done, and I suspect that it was, in fact, the straw that broke the camel's back.  Again, she isn't any different a person now than she was before they hired her.  If the only problem was her political stance, she never would have been hired in the first place.

Hef, read her whole statement.  It has nothing to do with people being beaten in the streets.  It's about the GOVERNMENT, and how they FIRST - before they captured and tortured and killed their own citizens - first set them against each other.
I read it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 11, 2021, 07:27:58 PM
I think this now needs to head to P/R.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on February 11, 2021, 07:39:39 PM
It's a shame as Cara Dune was/is? a really badass character, one that paired so well with Mando. I was hoping she'd be in more episodes in season 2 seeing how enjoyable the pair and chemistry was in season 1.

She was great in Deadpool too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 12, 2021, 06:33:33 AM
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png)

Also, the people defending her post seem to be forgetting the context it happened in. It's not like she posted one thing and got shitcanned out of nowhere, she's been posting stupid and offensive stuff for a while now, was apparently almost fired already and was on thin ice, and then she kept going. Benefit of the doubt isn't really warranted here. Also, maybe if she'd just said something afterward like 'Wow, shit, I definitely didn't mean to compare expressing opinions to being Jewish in the Holocaust and I'm really sorry it came across that way. What I actually meant was.....' I'm gonna say things would have turned out differently.

I mean seriously, people. If I had millions of followers who all knew the company I worked and I posted shit like that, I would have gotten fired for reflecting badly on the company, and I'm in fucking Tennessee.

I liked her character personally, though, so I'm kind of bummed on that front.


You're late to the party.  The quippy little cartoons (which lost me in the second panel, with the dismissive, contemptuous "bullshit") address a problem that was asked and answered.

I'm well past that and now trying to learn and understand.    I see her words (and yes, I know, to some extent, the context).   But some people - their prerogative - seem to be making leaps that aren't supported by the information at hand.  I'm not so smug and sanctimonious that I just assume I know what people are thinking.  I've read her words several times now, and I can't get to where some of the people here are without making assumptions that I can't know.

And the reason I post this is not about her, or her job.  Couldn't give a rat's ass.  NOT DEFENDING HER OR HER STATEMENT.  But it IS important to us as a nation, as a people, as a civilization that we have meaningful communication; not for nothing, but whether this is in P/R or here, it's getting pretty clear that "no conversation" is tolerable.  I read some of these responses this morning and it's pointing in the direction of "you're on the right side of history" or "you're a bigot".    That's a pretty broad chasm, and a recipe for (social) disaster.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 12, 2021, 06:43:19 AM
Seriously, can we take any further discussion on this to P/R now?  I'm TRULY over it, and want to read Star Wars discussion here.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=33204.msg2749215#msg2749215
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 12, 2021, 09:14:13 AM
it was just a matter of time because like you said she Stuck out like a sore thumb being the only conservative ‘voice’ on a show that’s in an industry of out of touch liberal minded people.
First, I object to your contention that they are out of touch.

Secondly, she should have known better.  Like it or not, in any business, there are things you don't do or don't say, or there will be repercussions.  No matter what industry you are in, you should know what those things are.  If you want to be in that industry, you need to avoid doing or saying those things.  She didn't. 

She wasn't fired because they are liberal and she is conservative.  If that were the issue, she would never have been hired in the first place.  She didn't just become a conservative this year.  She has made many posts over the last year and nothing has happened.

You can't ever compare any so-called persecuted group to what the Jews suffered under Nazi Germany.  You just can't do that.

The only thing I disagree with what you said is ‘Hollywood’ not being out of touch with how the average American lives and what reality is for the majority of people. They’re a privileged class of people....I don’t know how you can argue they aren’t?

Any type of Nazi/Jew comparison will garner attention and is usually a lightning rod for criticism.  I don’t condone it or defend it. My entire point is that again.....we’re the roles reversed and Rosario Dawson tweeted that Donald Trump’s speech prior to the Capitol riots was exactly like Hitler speaking to his troops to encourage them in war.....she’d keep her job and probably be celebrated.

To Gary's point:  Google "Trump is Hitler", and on the first page there are:
"Pro-Trump rioters storming the Capitol bear echoes of Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch"
"Is it wrong to compare Trump to Hitler? No."
"One scholar on similiarities, substantial differences between Trump and Hitler"
"Thirteen similarities between Donald Trump and Adolf Hitler"
"Trump and Trumpism:  Memories of Hitler"

To be fair, there are two headlines - both Opinion pieces - that disagree.

But under "Top Stories", Spike Lee, on January 24th, said:  "Donald Trump will do down in history with the likes of Hitler".   I'm blanking; was he fired from his latest project?  Actually, no, he was receiving an award at the time of his remarks (https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2021/01/24/spike-lee-speech-donald-trump-hitler-new-york-film-critics/6696493002/).
Yeah, people have made comparisons between Trump and Hitler (and between other people and Hitler - Trump wasn't the first).

People don't typically complain about being "persecuted" and compare themselves to the Jews killed by the Nazis.  That's like the third rail.  She wasn't fired because she's conservative, she was fired because she's an idiot.

No. She was fired because the Company doesn't want to be liable for all the backlash of the Social Media Mob if they didn't do anything about her tweet.

We've seen it happen.

But, I am guessing she doesn't care, as she may feel she stands her ground and knows the consequences. She is not afraid of those consequences and can handle and is ready to accept them. Did anyone even think about that?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 12, 2021, 09:19:24 AM
No. She was fired because the Company doesn't want to be liable for all the backlash of the Social Media Mob if they didn't do anything about her tweet.

We've seen it happen.

But, I am guessing she doesn't care, as she may feel she stands her ground and knows the consequences. She is not afraid of those consequences and can handle and is ready to accept them. Did anyone even think about that?
No.  Because I think she is an idiot, so I don't think she thought anything through the way you communicated there. 

Also, she is in a business where, above all else, perception is reality.  Frankly, she isn't a big enough name to be controversial enough to be able to "stand her ground", whatever that may mean, and have her career survive.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 12, 2021, 09:27:41 AM
No. She was fired because the Company doesn't want to be liable for all the backlash of the Social Media Mob if they didn't do anything about her tweet.

We've seen it happen.

But, I am guessing she doesn't care, as she may feel she stands her ground and knows the consequences. She is not afraid of those consequences and can handle and is ready to accept them. Did anyone even think about that?
No.  Because I think she is an idiot, so I don't think she thought anything through the way you communicated there. 

Also, she is in a business where, above all else, perception is reality.  Frankly, she isn't a big enough name to be controversial enough to be able to "stand her ground", whatever that may mean, and have her career survive.

So you already have been convinced she's an idiot and dismissed the thought that maybe she isn't an idiot, and knew exactly what she was doing when she tweeted. She knew the consequences and was willing to accept it, when she tweeted it.

It's really going to be interesting what she does now.

And Standing Your Ground, means not giving in. And she obviously did that by not retweeting the bullshit apology just to keep her job.

But it doesn't surprise me though, because it is Disney.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on February 12, 2021, 10:30:11 AM
Seriously, can we take any further discussion on this to P/R now?  I'm TRULY over it, and want to read Star Wars discussion here.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=33204.msg2749215#msg2749215

Agreed.  As I said above:

And, yeah, I realize the last handful of posts have crossed over well into P/R territory.  If anyone has anything they really feel the need to express on the subject, go ahead and say it.  As I often say, even though it technically should go elsewhere, sometimes, there is some inevitable bleed over into areas outside a thread topic, or outside what is usually allowed, etc.  But let's keep it reasonable and not turn it into a protracted debate.  If people want to debate the finer points beyond simply posting their opinion here, I suggest a thread in P/R for it.**

I don't have a problem with the discussion.  But, really, that issue is now becoming somewhat of a distraction rather than the thread topic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 12, 2021, 11:30:03 AM
So you already have been convinced she's an idiot and dismissed the thought that maybe she isn't an idiot, and knew exactly what she was doing when she tweeted. She knew the consequences and was willing to accept it, when she tweeted it.
Well, not just based on this incident, no.  I've followed her career for a while now, and seen multiple interviews with her, and have never found her to seem particularly intellectual.  However, in The Mandalorian, I felt she had found a role for which she was particularly well-suited.

Which she has now screwed up for herself.  Which is a shame.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on February 12, 2021, 11:56:58 AM
Kudos to the MODs for allowing a civil discussion on this topic.

I liked her character on the show, but I can't say that I'll be affected by her absence in future seasons.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on February 13, 2021, 12:23:41 AM


It's really going to be interesting what she does now.



Goes and signs up to star in a Movie being developed by The Daily Wire, which is owned by Ben Shapiro who thinks homosexually is a mental illness.    ::)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 13, 2021, 05:53:40 AM
Kudos to the MODs for allowing a civil discussion on this topic.

I liked her character on the show, but I can't say that I'll be affected by her absence in future seasons.

Who's to say that the role couldn't / wouldn't be re-cast?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 13, 2021, 06:45:44 AM
Kudos to the MODs for allowing a civil discussion on this topic.

I liked her character on the show, but I can't say that I'll be affected by her absence in future seasons.

Who's to say that the role couldn't / wouldn't be re-cast?

I would hope it wasn't.   Not for anything to do with her or her off the field antics, but for continuity purposes.  It will be less distracting to me if she's just gone, than if I have to get used to another "face" for that character.  But that's me. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 13, 2021, 09:14:00 AM
Kudos to the MODs for allowing a civil discussion on this topic.

I liked her character on the show, but I can't say that I'll be affected by her absence in future seasons.

Who's to say that the role couldn't / wouldn't be re-cast?

I would hope it wasn't.   Not for anything to do with her or her off the field antics, but for continuity purposes.  It will be less distracting to me if she's just gone, than if I have to get used to another "face" for that character.  But that's me.

Yeah. Just kill her off or mention her in passing but a re-cast isn’t necessary. She’s not that vital to the story. Was a cool character but they can get around her not being in the story anymore.

The larger issue probably is Filoni/Favreau probably already had S3 written and mapped out which most likely included elements of her character. So I’m sure some re-writes are happening. It’s still ridiculous she was canned especially as more comments/posts etc etc from fellow cast members are being revealed that are just as controversial. But whatevs.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 13, 2021, 09:58:24 AM
Are they going to go the Poochie route?...

Cara Dune: "I have to go now, my planet needs me."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 13, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
Cara Dune: "I have to go now, my planet needs me."

Nope....not with her. Her planet no longer exists.   :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 13, 2021, 11:30:02 AM
Cara Dune: "I have to go now, my planet needs me."

Nope....not with her. Her planet no longer exists.   :lol

Ergo her planet DOES need her!   :lol :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 13, 2021, 11:31:29 AM
Cara Dune: "I have to go now, my planet needs me."

Nope....not with her. Her planet no longer exists.   :lol

Ergo her planet DOES need her!   :lol :lol

Cara Dune.....rebuilding Alderon once atom at a time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 13, 2021, 11:48:20 AM
Cara Dune: "I have to go now, my planet needs me."

Nope....not with her. Her planet no longer exists.   :lol

Ergo her planet DOES need her!   :lol :lol

Cara Dune.....rebuilding Alderon once atom at a time.

 :lol  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on February 13, 2021, 12:40:49 PM
With the way Season Two ended, Cara could come back in future storylines, or not.  If "not" turns out to be how it goes, then fine.  She's the new marshall of whatever that place was, Greef seems to have his little enterprise going on, and I assumed Season Three would be after some time has passed.  No real reason to think so, other than it seems like a logical thing to do now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on February 13, 2021, 12:49:07 PM
It’s still ridiculous she was canned especially as more comments/posts etc etc from fellow cast members are being revealed that are just as controversial. But whatevs.

It's more like 3 (or more) strikes and youare out.  This latest tweet was just a series of ones she'd posted in the past few months - the ant-mask one, the election fraud one, the transphobic one and now this one.  That's quite a lot of chances before she was finally given the boot - I know for a fact I'd be reprimanded if I did any of that once, and shown the door if I did it again.   The fact she's run straight into the arms of a questionable character like Ben Shariro, and tweeting about the rebellion starts now says it all really.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on February 13, 2021, 02:03:06 PM
It’s still ridiculous she was canned especially as more comments/posts etc etc from fellow cast members are being revealed that are just as controversial. But whatevs.

It's more like 3 (or more) strikes and youare out.  This latest tweet was just a series of ones she'd posted in the past few months - the ant-mask one, the election fraud one, the transphobic one and now this one.  That's quite a lot of chances before she was finally given the boot - I know for a fact I'd be reprimanded if I did any of that once, and shown the door if I did it again.   The fact she's run straight into the arms of a questionable character like Ben Shariro, and tweeting about the rebellion starts now says it all really.....
It's also about how you react. If you're called out on it and you say "my bad, I was frustrated and I exaggerated but I appreciate it was insensitive" that's one thing, but she doesn't give a shit as evidenced by her reaction to what she'll do next. Seems like it was inevitable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 14, 2021, 07:20:02 AM
It’s still ridiculous she was canned especially as more comments/posts etc etc from fellow cast members are being revealed that are just as controversial. But whatevs.

It's more like 3 (or more) strikes and youare out.  This latest tweet was just a series of ones she'd posted in the past few months - the ant-mask one, the election fraud one, the transphobic one and now this one.  That's quite a lot of chances before she was finally given the boot - I know for a fact I'd be reprimanded if I did any of that once, and shown the door if I did it again.   The fact she's run straight into the arms of a questionable character like Ben Shariro, and tweeting about the rebellion starts now says it all really.....

I don't want to derail, but there's a lengthy discussion in the P/R thread that makes a decent case that it's not as simple and straightforward as you make out.  To use your analogy, for some people, that third strike wasn't in the zone, but in fact was a foul tip.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 14, 2021, 07:32:50 AM
It’s still ridiculous she was canned especially as more comments/posts etc etc from fellow cast members are being revealed that are just as controversial. But whatevs.

It's more like 3 (or more) strikes and youare out.  This latest tweet was just a series of ones she'd posted in the past few months - the ant-mask one, the election fraud one, the transphobic one and now this one.  That's quite a lot of chances before she was finally given the boot - I know for a fact I'd be reprimanded if I did any of that once, and shown the door if I did it again.   The fact she's run straight into the arms of a questionable character like Ben Shariro, and tweeting about the rebellion starts now says it all really.....
It's also about how you react. If you're called out on it and you say "my bad, I was frustrated and I exaggerated but I appreciate it was insensitive" that's one thing, but she doesn't give a shit as evidenced by her reaction to what she'll do next. Seems like it was inevitable.

Why does she have to give a shit?  Why does she have to act like others expect her to?   That's the paradox of America; we celebrate individualism, we celebrate being unique, we celebrate breaking the rules - what's that bumper sticker?  "Well behaved women rarely make history"? - but really, it's a sham and a mirage.  Toe the line, bitches, or you're out!

Some are no doubt celebrating this, but I read this and was almost nauseous (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chris-harrison-the-bachelor-stepping-aside-comments-rachel-lindsay-backlash/).  Not that there's anything excusable here, or that the Bachelor is worth arguing about, but does anyone think that's anything other than just personal pandering and revenge through humiliation?   Does anyone think ANYONE'S mind - including Chris Harrison's - is being changed by this?  When I read this kind of thing, the first thing I think of is "I'd love to ask someone that supports this whether they believe torture - you know, waterboarding, what not - works", because it smacks of the same thing.  Make the penalty so high that they'll say ANYTHING to make it stop.

TO BE CLEAR: I'm not saying NOTHING should be done.  I'm not saying that what they did was right or should be ENCOURAGED. I'm not saying they aren't bigots.   I'm also not saying that Disney and ABC don't have the right to do what they did.  They absolutely do.  I'm specifically talking about this as a path forward, as a way of minimizing overall bigotry in the future.  I don't see it; I see this as just a moment in time, a transient point of retribution with no real lasting impact.   (And we KNOW it has no lasting impact; Gina Carano supposedly saw the light regarding her transphobia, after a meaningful conversation with Pedro Pascal; I don't know of any transphobic comments after that, but either way, she either didn't learn, or no one gives a flick about her personal growth, because I still hear people using that as a rationale for her firing).

EDIT: Don't yell at me; it's about TV, and it's in response to posts HERE about this issue.  I'm going to repost this in the P/R thread, but I feel I'm entitled to respond to posts here that introduce these issues.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on February 14, 2021, 10:46:23 AM
It’s still ridiculous she was canned especially as more comments/posts etc etc from fellow cast members are being revealed that are just as controversial. But whatevs.

It's more like 3 (or more) strikes and youare out.  This latest tweet was just a series of ones she'd posted in the past few months - the ant-mask one, the election fraud one, the transphobic one and now this one.  That's quite a lot of chances before she was finally given the boot - I know for a fact I'd be reprimanded if I did any of that once, and shown the door if I did it again.   The fact she's run straight into the arms of a questionable character like Ben Shariro, and tweeting about the rebellion starts now says it all really.....

I don't want to derail, but there's a lengthy discussion in the P/R thread that makes a decent case that it's not as simple and straightforward as you make out.  To use your analogy, for some people, that third strike wasn't in the zone, but in fact was a foul tip.

Would like to join in that discussion but i don't have the rights to post in the politics forum.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: XJDenton on February 14, 2021, 08:04:17 PM
You can request access in "Forum Suggestions".

In any case, irrespective of the controversy surrounding of her firing, IMO its no great loss. Gina didn't exactly bring much in the way of acting chops to the part and her character is hardly integral to the narrative.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 18, 2021, 10:54:18 AM
Just saw on social media that Ashley Eckstein (voice of Ahsoka Tano in the animated series) is married to former MLB shortstop and WS Champion David Eckstein. Just a random fact for you all. carry on.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on February 18, 2021, 11:28:48 AM
You can request access in "Forum Suggestions".

In any case, irrespective of the controversy surrounding of her firing, IMO its no great loss. Gina didn't exactly bring much in the way of acting chops to the part and her character is hardly integral to the narrative.

I actually dig the character, and wouldn't be against a recast with a more competent actor, Tessa Thompson is the first that comes to mind.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 18, 2021, 11:48:28 AM
You can request access in "Forum Suggestions".

In any case, irrespective of the controversy surrounding of her firing, IMO its no great loss. Gina didn't exactly bring much in the way of acting chops to the part and her character is hardly integral to the narrative.

I actually dig the character, and wouldn't be against a recast with a more competent actor, Tessa Thompson is the first that comes to mind.

Ehh.....I don't mind a recast for some characters but that character was a pretty big signature character for a new show. I won't use the term 'main' character but she played a significant role. I don't think a recast would work personally. Maybe Cara Dune is murdered or killed or something and her 'just as badass' sister is now on the scene? Or just write her out.....mention the character name from time to time....but a recast IMO would be Disney trying to hard to fix something that doesn't need to be fixed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on February 18, 2021, 12:47:17 PM
They've already said that they won't recast her.

The Mandalorian Will Not Recast Gina Carano’s Character with a New Actress (https://www.slashfilm.com/the-mandalorian-not-recasting-cara-dune-after-gina-carano-firing/)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 18, 2021, 01:21:12 PM
They've already said that they won't recast her.

The Mandalorian Will Not Recast Gina Carano’s Character with a New Actress (https://www.slashfilm.com/the-mandalorian-not-recasting-cara-dune-after-gina-carano-firing/)

That's good to know. I mean, with the way S2 ended....essentially no more Grogu.....the story moving forward will be 'new' so writing her out of the show won't be difficult.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ZirconBlue on February 19, 2021, 01:42:21 PM



Ehh.....I don't mind a recast for some characters but that character was a pretty big signature character for a new show. I won't use the term 'main' character but she played a significant role. I don't think a recast would work personally. Maybe Cara Dune is murdered or killed or something and her 'just as badass' sister is now on the scene?



Lorna?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 23, 2021, 10:51:01 AM
I mentioned this in the Marvel thread

On a side note....after watching Sebastian Stan in these episodes the resemblance to a young Mark Hammill is indeed there. I'd 100% buy in on him being Luke Skywalker if they were to try and pull that off. In fact, I''m a little bummed they didn't use him in the Finale of S2 to get that ball rolling.

I think it could be done. Given the reception and fan fare that the finale received from just a couple minutes of Luke Skywalker, I think it's fair to say that there is an appetite and audience out there who'd love to see a series that details a Luke Skywalker in his 'prime' Jedi years
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on April 23, 2021, 11:18:44 AM
I'd be down with that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 23, 2021, 11:29:52 AM
Before that final Mandalorian episode aired, I saw the rumours that Luke would be the one to answer the call, and the pictures of Mark Hammill and Sebastian Stan and how much they looked alike.  Then it came out that the picture of Stan was doctored to make him look more like 70's Mark Hammill, and the scenes were ultimately done with CG deepfakery.

Presumably, if they did go with some kind of (prequel? sequel? what do we call it?) of Luke's Jedi Badass Years, it would just be "regular" makeup and/or minor prosthetics.  Deepfaking the main character for the entire show would be crazy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 23, 2021, 11:33:24 AM
Before that final Mandalorian episode aired, I saw the rumours that Luke would be the one to answer the call, and the pictures of Mark Hammill and Sebastian Stan and how much they looked alike.  Then it came out that the picture of Stan was doctored to make him look more like 70's Mark Hammill, and the scenes were ultimately done with CG deepfakery.

Presumably, if they did go with some kind of (prequel? sequel? what do we call it?) of Luke's Jedi Badass Years, it would just be "regular" makeup and/or minor prosthetics.  Deepfaking the main character for the entire show would be crazy.

I saw that as well that the Sebastian Stan resemblance pics were doctored.....but, after watching him in 'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier' he does bare an uncanny resemblance to Mark Hammill. I think as you suggested, with minimal make up artistry it could be pulled off in such a way that it'd be perfectly fine. As long as Stan was able to capture the character correctly.....the 'look' I believe would be the easy part.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on April 25, 2021, 10:45:17 AM
For those who don't have the time or interest to play Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order, but are perhaps interested in experiencing an unfamiliar Star Wars story, you may enjoy the movie version of the game (runs about 2 hours). It takes place after Episode III and follows a Jedi named Cal as he races against the Empire to track down the remaining force-sensitive people in the galaxy. I think it's a really good Star Wars story, and it includes some effective references to lots of different Star Wars movies!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFIFQjmAon0
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on May 06, 2021, 05:30:46 AM
Anyone watch The Bad Batch premier? Nice first episode. I'm interested to see where this goes in an otherwise unexplored time period of Star Wars history.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on May 06, 2021, 05:42:39 AM
I'm debating on watching that series after all the episodes air rather than on a weekly basis. I've heard good things about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on May 06, 2021, 05:54:34 AM
Anyone watch The Bad Batch premier? Nice first episode. I'm interested to see where this goes in an otherwise unexplored time period of Star Wars history.

Yup... diggin it.  jingle.son and I watched the 4-episode run that introduced them in the Clone Wars S7.  Digging this very much.  We hadn't watched Rebels, so the 'reveal' wasn't terribly impactful to us - we wouldn't have known anything different if jingle.son hadn't been doing some background reading/research.

I'm sure the arc will (at least for a few episodes) focus on getting that inhibitor out of Crosshairs.  Very curious to see what Omega brings to the table.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 06, 2021, 05:39:20 PM
Anyone watch The Bad Batch premier? Nice first episode. I'm interested to see where this goes in an otherwise unexplored time period of Star Wars history.

Yup... diggin it.  jingle.son and I watched the 4-episode run that introduced them in the Clone Wars S7.  Digging this very much.  We hadn't watched Rebels, so the 'reveal' wasn't terribly impactful to us - we wouldn't have known anything different if jingle.son hadn't been doing some background reading/research.

I'm sure the arc will (at least for a few episodes) focus on getting that inhibitor out of Crosshairs.  Very curious to see what Omega brings to the table.

Yeah. Good episode. I can’t imagine this won’t be a good series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on May 07, 2021, 06:15:11 AM
Honestly, I'm more interested in cameos and tie-ns to the larger Star Wars universe than I am in the Batch Batch characters themselves.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on May 15, 2021, 11:45:50 AM
A few random Star Wars thoughts:

The Bad Batch is just ok through 3 episodes. It's cool to see Tarkin and some of the early empire stuff, but the lead characters aren't doing a whole lot for me.

I rewatched the last four episodes of The Clone Wars. Damn, those are good. As a movie, it would definitely be in the top half of all Star Wars movies.

I would love to see a D+ series of Maul being a badass gangster. It could tie into the Solo movie and wrap up that story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on May 15, 2021, 01:58:33 PM
Yeah, bad batch Ep3 was ok, but kinda bland. Nothing wrong with it, and I guess it advanced the storylines.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: kaos2900 on May 21, 2021, 12:01:53 PM
Sounds like Rangers of the New Republic is getting canned. Book of Boba Fett (December) and Ahoska are moving forward and are part of the same time line as the mandalorian and all will come together in the end. I'm assuming that will be around the search for Ezra and Thrawn's story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on May 22, 2021, 05:01:54 AM
I thought The Bad Batch was a much more entertaining episode last night.  I'm still really not sure what the overall arc is supposed to be about, or what it's leading to, but jingle.son and I are still digging it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 22, 2021, 12:46:09 PM
I thought The Bad Batch was a much more entertaining episode last night.  I'm still really not sure what the overall arc is supposed to be about, or what it's leading to, but jingle.son and I are still digging it.

I’m two behind. Gotta knock those out.

I did see they made Dave Filoni an Executive Creative Director at Lucasfilm. So that’s good news.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on July 03, 2021, 06:07:42 PM
Star Wars: Visions first look

https://youtu.be/b9Gr9gKFxpE

I'm not an anime fan, but this looks cool. I think it's a great idea to let creative people come up with unique Star Wars stories in their own style.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: PetFish on August 17, 2021, 10:26:26 PM
Visions looks so cool!  Reminds me of The Animatrix with in-universe stories being told by different creators.

I always find that when artists don't have their creativity handcuffed by the powers behind the Star Wars IP then things can be amazing.  All too often stuff is made to "fit" the classic saga format and although it works I'm always feeling like there's so much more cool stuff to see and do.

Examples would be this (Visions), the original Clone Wars series (pre-2005), new Clone Wars cartoons, and various video games.

I really hate seeing Jedi/Sith concentrating so hard to do simple stuff (eg Yoda vs Dooku when Dooku drops some ceiling pebbles/machinery on Yoda and he must throw up both hands to stop them, AT MOST it should have been a flick of the wrist while maintaining steely eye contact with Dooku) or other dumb shit like "Master Obiwan seeing me Force lift this kiwi-pear over to you would make him grumpy".  WTF?

Seeing Sidious toss senate boxes at Yoda was great and what I always hope to see but then seeing Yoda having to tryhard to throw one back at him was lame.  Wait, lemme spin this first for no reason then push it at you, I'm not telegraphing it or anything.

Do I want a Jedi/Sith to Force-crash a Star Destroyer?  Hell no.  But when Obiwan has Buzzdroids on his little spaceship why can't he, or Anakin, just Force-push them off?  Why be so helpless in this situation?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on August 18, 2021, 10:21:59 AM
Not really into anime but this is a fresh idea and a nice way to bring new creative ideas for the SW universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 18, 2021, 08:37:07 PM
I’m not sure what to think about Bad Batch. It wasn’t ‘bad’ per say but I honestly don’t know what the point of the show is? It’s not really adding anything to the lore or back story, we did get a couple glimpses of some characters that were young at the time…..but there was no drastic reveal or tie in to the main universe.

While this is fine and not necessary…..I just found the story to be a bit rudimentary, especially on the heels of such a good run by Filoni. S2 is green lit so I guess we will see where this goes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on August 19, 2021, 09:32:05 AM
I’m not sure what to think about Bad Batch. It wasn’t ‘bad’ per say but I honestly don’t know what the point of the show is? It’s not really adding anything to the lore or back story, we did get a couple glimpses of some characters that were young at the time…..but there was no drastic reveal or tie in to the main universe.

While this is fine and not necessary…..I just found the story to be a bit rudimentary, especially on the heels of such a good run by Filoni. S2 is green lit so I guess we will see where this goes.
I enjoyed the backstory of the transition from the Old Republic to the Empire. I agree that it kind of felt like an unnecessary show. I didn't find the main characters to be all that compelling. But I'll continue watching as I do all things Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 19, 2021, 10:33:45 AM
I’m not sure what to think about Bad Batch. It wasn’t ‘bad’ per say but I honestly don’t know what the point of the show is? It’s not really adding anything to the lore or back story, we did get a couple glimpses of some characters that were young at the time…..but there was no drastic reveal or tie in to the main universe.

While this is fine and not necessary…..I just found the story to be a bit rudimentary, especially on the heels of such a good run by Filoni. S2 is green lit so I guess we will see where this goes.
I enjoyed the backstory of the transition from the Old Republic to the Empire. I agree that it kind of felt like an unnecessary show. I didn't find the main characters to be all that compelling. But I'll continue watching as I do all things Star Wars.

Yeah....that was interesting to see. I know that Clone Wars took a couple seasons to really get going and I have to think that with Filoni behind this all that there is some sort of 'pay off' or point to the series other than just having another SW show. Or, maybe Disney just said....we need some content for Disney +, make it happen?

Compelling is a good word to use there and I agree.....the main characters and their story arc in S1 just didn't grab me at all. I'm just kind of indifferent on the whole season. I didn't hate it but I also didn't find it to be 'must see' ala the Mandalorian or the late season Clone War episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on August 21, 2021, 05:24:59 AM
The first 1/2 of the season was pretty dry.  The 2nd half I enjoyed much more.  I appreciated the finale, but wasn't wow'd by it.  I think it's pretty good way of setting up the re-cloning that we started to see in Mandalorian, and ultimately could tie into the resurrection of Palpatine - all while giving some rearview glimpses at some characters from Rebels (or so I'm told, since I never watched that - yet).  I'm fully anticipating some major payoff about Omega... like, she's got some midichlorians in her or something.  There's got to be something special about her.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on August 21, 2021, 06:28:44 AM
I threw in the towel partway through Bad Batch. It was fine but it was just kind of... there. I felt like I was watching it out of obligation.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 21, 2021, 07:47:22 AM
The first 1/2 of the season was pretty dry.  The 2nd half I enjoyed much more.  I appreciated the finale, but wasn't wow'd by it.  I think it's pretty good way of setting up the re-cloning that we started to see in Mandalorian, and ultimately could tie into the resurrection of Palpatine - all while giving some rearview glimpses at some characters from Rebels (or so I'm told, since I never watched that - yet).  I'm fully anticipating some major payoff about Omega... like, she's got some midichlorians in her or something.  There's got to be something special about her.

Yeah. There’s something still not said about Omega that will probably be pretty important. The cameos from a young Kanan and Hera were pretty neat also.

It’s not quite as big a chore as Clone Wars……but Rebels is worth the watch. It doesn’t take long at all for it to get to it and stays pretty solid all the way through. With the tie ins and the Ahsoka series basically being based around the ending of Rebels…..I’d recommend it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on August 30, 2021, 06:15:30 PM
So I was gifted some Thrawn novels, and saw these are newer ones. I do not know anything of the SW Legends (or whatever they are calling it now) world. If I jump in to these novels will it be a detriment to me not having read previous stories with Thrawn?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Grappler on August 31, 2021, 08:55:37 AM
So I was gifted some Thrawn novels, and saw these are newer ones. I do not know anything of the SW Legends (or whatever they are calling it now) world. If I jump in to these novels will it be a detriment to me not having read previous stories with Thrawn?

No, not really.  If it's Thrawn / Thrawn: Alliances / Thrawn: Treason, then the books are prequels to the original Timothy Zahn trilogy (Heir to the Empire) from the 90's.  This new trilogy explains how Thrawn rose through the ranks of the Empire and became a Grand Admiral.  I enjoyed them, and I've never seen one episode of the Star Wars cartoon series.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on August 31, 2021, 07:40:45 PM
Cool, thanks. It is from the series Thrawn Ascendancy, which apparently precedes other stories. I have a thing about reading novels out of published order, and didn't want to dive in to something that I might not fully appreciate without having read previous novels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on September 16, 2021, 03:01:31 AM
So I just watched the KENOBI trailer - and RedLetterMedia are bang on - Star Wars cannot do anything new.

This new trailer is Darth Vader ! Death Star ! Stormtroopers ! Tie Fighters ! Darth Maul !

HEY REMEMBER EPISODE 4 !!!

Are Disney so far in the hole with Lucasfilm that they have to resort to basically making Star Wars The Greatest Hits ?

It looks nice though obviously. That should be a given these days. If the Prequels looked like this theyd actually be watchable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on September 16, 2021, 05:20:45 AM
Kenobi trailer???
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on September 16, 2021, 05:38:36 AM
Probably one of those conceptual fan-made trailers. There's a bunch of them out there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on September 16, 2021, 05:50:02 AM
Probably one of those conceptual fan-made trailers. There's a bunch of them out there.

That's kinda what I figured.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on September 16, 2021, 05:50:14 AM
It couldnt have been fan made as it had new footage of Ewen as Obi Wan. But I don't watch The Mandalorian so I dunno if it was cobbled together.

If it was fan - made it was well done but OVER done on the fan service.

I don't know where they'd get new footage of Ewen as Obi though. Maybe from another film with him in the desert in a robe ? Official teasers ?

Dunno.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on September 16, 2021, 05:59:23 AM
Link?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on September 16, 2021, 06:00:20 AM
There is no official trailer from the series, as far as I know they're still shooting and it's in production.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on September 16, 2021, 06:03:19 AM
Yeah I just checked and it was fan made. But it didn't say so in the title and the YouTube channel had a √ next to it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OYDt2dV6-o

Also I don't pay attention to SW so i've no idea :)

I did think the fan service was a LITTLE overboard  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on September 16, 2021, 06:27:03 AM
Just a few of obvious clues...

1 - posted in May.  Were they even filming in May?  I don't remember. 
2 - no one here or elsewhere was talking about it?  You can be damned sure when anything new drops, people talk about it.
3 - 25% of the reactions are  :tdwn
4 - clips from existing movies were used (Star Wars and other).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 16, 2021, 01:28:25 PM
All the desert scenes are from when he played Jesus in the movie 'The Last Days in the Desert'   I thought that clip you provided screamed fan made pretty clearly but it was cut together pretty good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on September 16, 2021, 03:41:49 PM
Yeah I should have been a little suspicious when it was overboard fan servicey - but that's what I expect from SW these days.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on September 22, 2021, 11:12:05 PM
Just watched the first Star Wars Visions episode. I mean, I know pretty much dick about anime, but that was really fucking good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on September 22, 2021, 11:43:10 PM
As a fan of SW and anime in general, I *loved* Visions. Call me Alderaan because I've been blown away.

My favorite episodes were The Duel, The Ninth Jedi, and The Twins (but I love almost everything Studio Trigger produces). Also really liked The Elder (the other Trigger produced short) and Tattooine Rhapsody, but every episode offered something fun and unique.

I really hope a 2nd season is greenlit and they revisit some of these studios and stories, especially since some of them are left with open-ended plots or even cliffhangers!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on September 23, 2021, 05:30:14 AM
Oh shit, didn’t realize it was out
Oh shit, didn’t realize it was the entire season that was out!
Oh shit, didn’t realize they were only 15-ish minutes each!!,

Will be binge watching his weekend.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 23, 2021, 07:48:53 AM
I will always love Star Wars, but I have no love for anime.

So I hope you will all enjoy this to the fullest.  But I'm out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 23, 2021, 10:17:15 AM
Oh shit, didn’t realize it was out
Oh shit, didn’t realize it was the entire season that was out!
Oh shit, didn’t realize they were only 15-ish minutes each!!,

Will be binge watching his weekend.

Ditto
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on September 23, 2021, 10:28:13 AM
I will always love Star Wars, but I have no love for anime.

So I hope you will all enjoy this to the fullest.  But I'm out.

Neither do I, but the first episode was really impressive.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jammindude on October 08, 2021, 11:49:38 AM
I made a brief mention in passing in a different thread about something that happened in The Last Jedi, and I just came to say that I’ve changed my mind about it.

When it first came out, I really liked the fact that it pissed off the tr00 fanbois, because maybe that’s just the Frank Zappa fan in me. But in retrospect, I really view the flaws in the execution and I can definitely see that Rian had zero interest in creating a story arc with any continuity whatsoever.

TFA I still feel is excellent. And the comparisons to ANH are warranted, but I don’t think they are as blatant as people make them out to be, and the differences and the better acting (compared to the prequels) made it easy to overlook the tiniest bit of self-plagiarism.

But ya, TLJ is just poorly executed on every level. If it was some sort of stand alone “alternative reality” kind of thing, it might have been ok. But Rian’s vision just seems bent on self-sabotage of the entire vision for the trilogy, and I’m surprised it got as far as it did without someone yanking him (like they did with the director of Solo when they saw that one going wrong during production)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Polarbear on October 08, 2021, 02:37:33 PM
I don't think TLJ was self-sabotage.

It has been stated by everyone involved that Rian was given essentially a blank slate, to make the movie he wanted to make. In hindsight, having no direction and overall plan for the sequel trilogy hurt it in the end. But I don't think he had any intention to sabotage the sequel trilogy, there just wasn't any plan other than "make the next episode in the sequel trilogy".

I think Rian was even quoted saying that he showed the script to KK, and she responded "Wow, that's risky. Go for it!"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jammindude on October 08, 2021, 03:59:37 PM
I don't think TLJ was self-sabotage.

It has been stated by everyone involved that Rian was given essentially a blank slate, to make the movie he wanted to make. In hindsight, having no direction and overall plan for the sequel trilogy hurt it in the end. But I don't think he had any intention to sabotage the sequel trilogy, there just wasn't any plan other than "make the next episode in the sequel trilogy".

I think Rian was even quoted saying that he showed the script to KK, and she responded "Wow, that's risky. Go for it!"

I’m not at a point where I hold any of KKs opinions in high regard. People in high places signed off on The Love Guru when Mike Myers thought it was a great idea. That doesn’t mean it was.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on November 01, 2021, 08:13:51 AM
https://youtu.be/rOJ1cw6mohw

First trailer for The Book Of Boba Fett has dropped!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 01, 2021, 08:24:49 AM
https://youtu.be/rOJ1cw6mohw

First trailer for The Book Of Boba Fett has dropped!

-Marc.

Was just coming in here to do that.  Fuck this looks good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on November 01, 2021, 08:32:49 AM
I wish The Rise of Skywalker had done Mike Stoklasa's crazy prediction of time travel and retconning the entire sequel trilogy a la Endgame.

That would have been way more fun than what we got.

But bottom line : plan your trilogy out before you start.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on November 01, 2021, 08:39:15 AM
https://youtu.be/rOJ1cw6mohw

First trailer for The Book Of Boba Fett has dropped!

-Marc.

Was just coming in here to do that.  Fuck this looks good.

Looks cool!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 01, 2021, 02:52:52 PM
Please. 

Speak freely.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on November 01, 2021, 02:56:00 PM
2024 : That Guy...Who Was Carrying The Thing..In Episode IV... A STAR WARS STORY


Also funny that Episode V is generally considered the best SW film whilst the "middle" ones of the next two trilogies are considered the absolute worst of their trilogies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on November 01, 2021, 03:21:19 PM
2024 : That Guy...Who Was Carrying The Thing..In Episode IV... A STAR WARS STORY


Also funny that Episode V is generally considered the best SW film whilst the "middle" ones of the next two trilogies are considered the absolute worst of their trilogies.

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but for the PT, most fans consider the third the best, while in the ST, most fans consider the first the best. So for each trilogy, a different placed film is the best of each trilogy.  :lol

That being the case, then Episodes III, V and VII are the most well-received, which is funny from a story stand-point because the nonology starts slow and not that great, climaxes in the middle with a bit of up-and-down, then peters out towards the uninteresting finish.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on November 01, 2021, 03:41:51 PM
My Take :

OT : Pretty good. Not my cup of tea but easily the best trilogy.

PT : WTF. Three dreadful films back to back. ROTS is only the best by dint of being the least awful.

ST : Force Awakens was GREAT. TLJ was Ehhh Ok ? ROTS was stupid but entertaining enough for two hours. Overall not the disaster that everyone says. Nowhere near as awful

as the prequels and NO - a bad trilogy does not make a horrendous trilogy any better. The sequel trilogy only had bad scripts. On every other level it's far superior to the PT

in every technical way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 04, 2021, 08:37:00 PM
Now here's a man who is comfortable with his grasp of the Star Wars universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn4z5Vb2EFY

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on November 05, 2021, 08:02:55 AM
Exactly. Han was a character he played in 3 films 30 years ago. It was a pay cheque. He probably thought they were all stupid make believe films.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on November 05, 2021, 09:33:34 AM
And yet, he's my favorite character in the entire Star Wars universe, and the only one I was even remotely hoping wasn't going to die (and of course, he's the one that did!)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on November 05, 2021, 10:44:35 AM
The two characters that died in the films are still alive in real life. Carrie fisher died IRL and Leia survived in the films.


...wait did Leia die in TROS ? I can't remember and i saw it twice !
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on November 05, 2021, 10:52:17 AM
I don't remember exact details but Harrison Ford I think kinda grew out of the SW franchise and wanted to be killed off on many occasions. He didn't want to be in Return of the Jedi and originally wanted him to die off. I think the story was drafted that way but changed later on. I remember reading or seeing an interview with JJ Abrams that Ford would be involved with the new movies only if he was killed off. I think he retains some level of disdain for the franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on November 05, 2021, 11:02:53 AM
The two characters that died in the films are still alive in real life. Carrie fisher died IRL and Leia survived in the films.


...wait did Leia die in TROS ? I can't remember and i saw it twice !

I think she pulled a Yoda and just vanished. But I’ve only seen it once and did not enjoy it at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Elite on November 05, 2021, 12:15:25 PM
Also funny that Episode V is generally considered the best SW film whilst the "middle" ones of the next two trilogies are considered the absolute worst of their trilogies.

I personally think The Last Jedi is the best of the new trilogy.



The two characters that died in the films are still alive in real life. Carrie fisher died IRL and Leia survived in the films.


...wait did Leia die in TROS ? I can't remember and i saw it twice !

I think she pulled a Yoda and just vanished. But I’ve only seen it once and did not enjoy it at all.

Yes, the writers had to do something and supposedly had a larger role planned for Leia in the last film, but then she died and they had to write her out. It's not exactly a nice ending to a beloved character (or franchise .. my God, did that film suck. It's horrendous in every single way).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on November 05, 2021, 01:33:53 PM
Not every single way. Apart from the script it was technically superior to all the prequels.   

Acting. CG. Consistent tone etc. It had no plot. It was just dumb. But that’s why I enjoyed it 😂.

It was just dumb entertainment for two hours. I enjoyed it on that level.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 06, 2021, 06:22:00 PM
Harrison Ford has a working actor mentality where each job is just that, a job. He doesn't want to be defined by a role any more than Alec Guinness did, who I believe bristled when people would only associate him with Obi-Wan. That doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate his part in SW, or how that enabled him to have the career he has had. I remember when Peter Mayhew died, he spoke fondly of him; it was clear he wasn't just a rando actor he did some silly sci-fi film with 40 years ago. He also enjoys playing the curmudgeon. His first words at John Williams' AFI celebration, after walking out to the Indiana Jones theme were "That damn music follows me everywhere."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on November 08, 2021, 06:49:13 AM
Harrison Ford has a working actor mentality where each job is just that, a job. He doesn't want to be defined by a role any more than Alec Guinness did, who I believe bristled when people would only associate him with Obi-Wan. That doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate his part in SW, or how that enabled him to have the career he has had. I remember when Peter Mayhew died, he spoke fondly of him; it was clear he wasn't just a rando actor he did some silly sci-fi film with 40 years ago. He also enjoys playing the curmudgeon. His first words at John Williams' AFI celebration, after walking out to the Indiana Jones theme were "That damn music follows me everywhere."

I obviously don't know the man, and have never talked to him about this, but I think that is all pretty spot on.   At the end of the day, he DOES keep coming back to these franchise films; there is probably some pragmatism to that (dollars and cents) but still.  Being the star - or major co-star - of these franchise films is not a casual endeavor.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 12, 2021, 07:20:20 AM
Yesterday, I decided to start a marathon of Episodes I-IX for the first time ever. It's been years since I've seen some of those films. I'm interested to see how my thoughts about them have changed.

Coincidentally, yesterday was also the day that the Obi-Wan teaser (or whatever it's called) leaked, so I'm in the midst of a Star Wars overload right now.

I don't think TLJ was self-sabotage.

It has been stated by everyone involved that Rian was given essentially a blank slate, to make the movie he wanted to make. In hindsight, having no direction and overall plan for the sequel trilogy hurt it in the end. But I don't think he had any intention to sabotage the sequel trilogy, there just wasn't any plan other than "make the next episode in the sequel trilogy".

I think Rian was even quoted saying that he showed the script to KK, and she responded "Wow, that's risky. Go for it!"

If memory serves, my opinion of TLJ after the last time watching it was: I admire the ambition, I question some of the execution. The Luke story really worked for me but the casino stuff did not. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 12, 2021, 07:24:07 AM
If memory serves, my opinion of TLJ after the last time watching it was: I admire the ambition, I question some of the execution. The Luke story really worked for me but the casino stuff did not. :lol
That's exactly my thought on it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 12, 2021, 07:50:13 AM
If memory serves, my opinion of TLJ after the last time watching it was: I admire the ambition, I question some of the execution. The Luke story really worked for me but the casino stuff did not. :lol
That's exactly my thought on it.

I could accept the Luke storyline (old/jaded/recalcitrant), but the casino and space-chase was ludicrous.  Same with the comedic tone of the opening scene.  And the Rebellion dwindling down to a couple of dozen people that can fit on the Falcon??
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on November 12, 2021, 07:56:02 AM
What I find funny is that people did not like the sequels - so therefore the prequels are...somehow.....good now ?

If your pizza is cold you don't say " man that dog shit I ate last night doesn't seem so bad now ! :angry: "

The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker had dumb scripts. But in every other way they're superior to the prequels.

Good CGI. Good acting. Good pacing. Exciting. Consistent tone. ( for the most part ).

The prequels were bad FILMS. Not just bad Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 12, 2021, 08:32:08 AM
What I find funny is that people did not like the sequels - so therefore the prequels are...somehow.....good now ?

If your pizza is cold you don't say " man that dog shit I ate last night doesn't seem so bad now ! :angry: "

The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker had dumb scripts. But in every other way they're superior to the prequels.

Good CGI. Good acting. Good pacing. Exciting. Consistent tone. ( for the most part ).

The prequels were bad FILMS. Not just bad Star Wars.

If I had to try and explain it, I would boil down the reevaluation of the prequels to a few factors:

- People become nostalgic for things over time. Hate him or love him, George Lucas no longer has anything to do with Star Wars, and the prequels represent the last time he did. Episodes 1-6 will always stand out for that reason.

- People are afraid of the mob. Now that the sequels are the scapegoat, a lot of the people who for a long time enjoyed certain aspects of the prequels are no longer afraid to give them some credit.

- The prequels have been expanded upon with countless games, novels, and television series. Over time, some of the oft-criticized moments of the prequels (e.g., ridiculous lightsaber battles) became widely accepted by the fan base because they made their way into more and more Star Wars media.

- The handling of the sequels by Lucasfilm was so botched that people began awarding the prequels bonus points for at least having a vision. "Intent is 9/10 of the law" essentially. I think that this is an interesting commentary on how subjective film reviews are and how much our opinions are influenced by external factors.

I fully expect the sequels to benefit from these same kinds of things over time. Disney will release two or three big-budget television series that will fill in a bunch of gaps, kids who dressed up as Kylo Ren and Rey for Halloween will grow up, and all of a sudden the sequels will be good now. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Kotowboy on November 12, 2021, 08:58:08 AM
in 10 years the sequels will 100% be getting the "They're not that bad???" treatment and then it will stop being trendy and cool to bash them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on November 12, 2021, 10:52:44 AM
On Disney+, they've posted a 1 minute sneak peek of next year's Obi-Wan series!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on November 12, 2021, 11:09:20 AM
On Disney+, they've posted a 1 minute sneak peek of next year's Obi-Wan series!

-Marc.

Yeah, it was cute - I'd read an article summarizing that clip a couple hours ago.  Still, I'm pretty jacked for this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 22, 2021, 12:46:32 PM
As we were discussing earlier, it looks like potential projects are in the works that involve some of the new characters: https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-sequel-characters-could-return-in-new-projects

If I had to guess, I wouldn't expect to see anything soon, but at some point within the next 5-10 years. I remember reading that some of the actors were not thrilled with their character arcs in the movies, but time heals many wounds as do hefty paychecks. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 22, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
For those of you who've watched Rebels.....this is pretty big news for a recent casting confirmation for the AHSOKA series...I'd have to say that they've captured the 'look' for sure. Hope she can capture the vibe and character as well.


https://brobible.com/sports/article/star-wars-fans-ecstatic-sabine-wren-casting-ahsoka-series/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: romdrums on November 23, 2021, 09:47:46 PM
For those of you who've watched Rebels.....this is pretty big news for a recent casting confirmation for the AHSOKA series...I'd have to say that they've captured the 'look' for sure. Hope she can capture the vibe and character as well.


https://brobible.com/sports/article/star-wars-fans-ecstatic-sabine-wren-casting-ahsoka-series/

I just re-watched Rebels while home with COVID, and it was even better than I remembered.  A little clunky in the set up, but man, Filoni and Co.  hit it out of the park with that series, especially once they added Grand Admiral Thrawn.  I feel like they really got the balance right with the main characters, the relationship between Kanan and Ezra was really well done, and I loved all of the Mandalore stuff (it’s a shame Mandalore never made it into one of the main movies).  Also, the way they stitched the Rebellion together was really, really well done, and the series finale was awesome.  I would dare say it’s the best animated series they’ve done, and it’s nice to see Sabine Wren will be a part of the Ahsoka series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 23, 2021, 10:31:22 PM
For those of you who've watched Rebels.....this is pretty big news for a recent casting confirmation for the AHSOKA series...I'd have to say that they've captured the 'look' for sure. Hope she can capture the vibe and character as well.


https://brobible.com/sports/article/star-wars-fans-ecstatic-sabine-wren-casting-ahsoka-series/

I just re-watched Rebels while home with COVID, and it was even better than I remembered.  A little clunky in the set up, but man, Filoni and Co.  hit it out of the park with that series, especially once they added Grand Admiral Thrawn.  I feel like they really got the balance right with the main characters, the relationship between Kanan and Ezra was really well done, and I loved all of the Mandalore stuff (it’s a shame Mandalore never made it into one of the main movies).  Also, the way they stitched the Rebellion together was really, really well done, and the series finale was awesome.  I would dare say it’s the best animated series they’ve done, and it’s nice to see Sabine Wren will be a part of the Ahsoka series.

As a whole Rebels is the best animated series yet. As you made mention…… it has great character and world building and is just really well done. But the later seasons of Clone Wars were really good and the last four episodes in particular are IMO some of if not the best SW content out there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on January 10, 2022, 06:54:29 AM
Is there a reason why the Boba Fett thread was locked?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 10, 2022, 07:13:20 AM
Is there a reason why the Boba Fett thread was locked?

Was wondering the same thing? Didn't appear to be any major argument or spoilers going on. Did someone not give Bosk a proper tribute?  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 10, 2022, 10:30:42 AM
Is there a reason why the Boba Fett thread was locked?

Was wondering the same thing? Didn't appear to be any major argument or spoilers going on. Did someone not give Bosk a proper tribute?  :lol

:clap:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on January 10, 2022, 11:49:12 AM
 :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on January 10, 2022, 01:34:25 PM
Edit. What I get for jumping in a thread I haven’t read in awhile and assuming I was on the last page before posting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 13, 2022, 02:46:17 PM
Just read that there is going to be a Bo Katan centric show on Disney +....to air after S3 of 'The Mandalorian'.  I personally am stoked about that news for two reasons. One is I freaking love Katee Sackhoff and think she's extremely underrated.....and two, Bo Katan is a really cool character. Supposedly, Bo Katan was going to get a ton of storyline in the now cancelled Rangers of the Republic so they must have turned it into her own deal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TAC on January 13, 2022, 03:46:18 PM
One is I freaking love Katee Sackhoff

That's a great porn actress name. ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on January 13, 2022, 04:05:11 PM
Just read that there is going to be a Bo Katan centric show on Disney +....to air after S3 of 'The Mandalorian'.  I personally am stoked about that news for two reasons. One is I freaking love Katee Sackhoff and think she's extremely underrated.....and two, Bo Katan is a really cool character. Supposedly, Bo Katan was going to get a ton of storyline in the now cancelled Rangers of the Republic so they must have turned it into her own deal

So weirdly, I thought Bo Katan was played by Bryce Dallas Howard. I know she directed some of The Mandalorian episodes. The two do look similar.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on February 09, 2022, 05:10:23 PM
Obi Wan Kenobi series officially coming May 25th.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on February 09, 2022, 06:43:37 PM
Obi Wan Kenobi series officially coming May 25th.

On the 45th Anniversary of Star Wars, no less!!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 10, 2022, 07:35:44 AM
Obi Wan Kenobi series officially coming May 25th.
Let's hurry up and get it over with.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on February 10, 2022, 08:15:32 AM
Is that show still targeted as a 4 episode mini-series? That's what I recall when last reading about it sometime back.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on February 10, 2022, 09:08:55 AM
Is that show still targeted as a 4 episode mini-series? That's what I recall when last reading about it sometime back.

Should be six episodes from the reports I've read online, so the show will run from May 25th to June 29th, unless they do a two-episode premiere.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 10, 2022, 11:46:01 AM
Obi Wan Kenobi series officially coming May 25th.

I've got a good feeling about this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 10, 2022, 11:47:58 AM
Obi Wan Kenobi series officially coming May 25th.

I've got a good feeling about this.
I've got a meh feeling about it.

I mean, I definitely hope it's good.  I'm just not sure how much I care.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on February 10, 2022, 11:51:17 AM
I hope they completely go against expectations and just do a whole show about Obi Wan puttering around tattoine. No action, no other crossing over, just a dude living a quiet life. I can even imagine some episodes with no dialogue what so ever. A whole episode of him making and eating a meal sounds ace.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 10, 2022, 12:18:58 PM
I cannot tell you how absolutely tired I am of Tatooine.  Can we please get off this planet?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on February 10, 2022, 12:19:54 PM
I cannot tell you how absolutely tired I am of Tatooine.  Can we please get off this planet?

You trying to tell me that you.....hate sand?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 10, 2022, 12:40:21 PM
I like it at the beach.

I hate it on this godforsaken shithole that they insist on continuing to visit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 10, 2022, 01:13:38 PM
I hope they completely go against expectations and just do a whole show about Obi Wan puttering around tattoine. No action, no other crossing over, just a dude living a quiet life. I can even imagine some episodes with no dialogue what so ever. A whole episode of him making and eating a meal sounds ace.

Spanking it to a digital image of Padme yelling “I’ve got the high ground”
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on February 10, 2022, 01:15:12 PM
I hope they completely go against expectations and just do a whole show about Obi Wan puttering around tattoine. No action, no other crossing over, just a dude living a quiet life. I can even imagine some episodes with no dialogue what so ever. A whole episode of him making and eating a meal sounds ace.

Spanking it to a digital image of Padme yelling “I’ve got the high ground”

It basically writes itself!



Or maybe the show is his one vacation he took to a different planet. Just Obi Wan in a Star Wars resort of sorts banging the local girls, sampling the local spirits, and catching up on his reading.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on February 10, 2022, 01:51:26 PM
I hope they completely go against expectations and just do a whole show about Obi Wan puttering around tattoine. No action, no other crossing over, just a dude living a quiet life. I can even imagine some episodes with no dialogue what so ever. A whole episode of him making and eating a meal sounds ace.

Spanking it to a digital image of Padme yelling “I’ve got the high ground”

It basically writes itself!



Or maybe the show is his one vacation he took to a different planet. Just Obi Wan in a Star Wars resort of sorts banging the local girls, sampling the local spirits, and catching up on his reading.

I think you've confused this with the Star Trek thread. Picard vacationing of Risa is over there.  ;)

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on February 11, 2022, 10:40:56 AM
#facts...

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/273751871_10159690495158194_8621628201509423993_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=XJWg3YowsHIAX8YI4TE&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT91Ys_5ZdTQA_VFCK-wV92w81Y_jw0FckXRQ-e12TvJ4Q&oe=620BFE07)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on February 11, 2022, 12:01:35 PM
You could make that "Dream Theater Fans" too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on February 11, 2022, 02:14:32 PM
You could make that "Dream Theater Fans" too.

No kidding.  "When Mike left/was let go..."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on February 11, 2022, 02:15:25 PM
 :corn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Phoenix87x on February 12, 2022, 07:53:41 PM
Someone did a recreation of Heir to the Empire. Its rough around the edges, but I'm actually enjoying it quite a bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC9fYUDQ6CM

You may have to rewind to the beginning
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 13, 2022, 08:41:21 AM
Obi Wan Kenobi series officially coming May 25th.

I think that the most predictable synopsis is something along the lines of: "Obi-Wan learns that Anakin is still alive. He goes to try and turn him back to the light. This culminates in a lightsaber battle where Darth Vader defeats Obi-Wan and leaves him for dead, mirroring the last time they met. Also, toss in some obligatory cameos of OT characters."

I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I'm also interested to see how far they deviate from what the fanbase is expecting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 09, 2022, 07:48:31 AM
Entertainment Weekly has shared new photos of the upcoming Obi-Wan Kenobi show!

https://ew.com/tv/obi-wan-kenobi-first-look-photos/

I wonder how many folks will complain that we are still visiting Tatooine after seeing it in The Mandalorian and The Book Of Boba Fett?  :lol

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 09, 2022, 10:16:24 AM
I don't mind Tatooine too much, but if we end up there in Andor or Ahsoka, I might get a little annoyed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 09, 2022, 10:31:34 AM
I wonder how many folks will complain that we are still visiting Tatooine after seeing it in The Mandalorian and The Book Of Boba Fett?  :lol
*raises hand*
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on March 09, 2022, 12:30:17 PM
https://youtu.be/TWTfhyvzTx0

Oh the music!  :heart
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 09, 2022, 12:48:52 PM
https://youtu.be/TWTfhyvzTx0

Oh the music!  :heart
Well I'm excited!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Polarbear on March 09, 2022, 01:14:26 PM
I will probably end up getting a Disney+ Subscription for this!

Looks like The Inquisitors from the Rebels cartoon, will make their live action debut!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 09, 2022, 01:25:55 PM
We already knew that Obi-Wan stayed on Tatooine to keep an eye on Luke, so it's a given that most (if not all) of this will be set on Tatooine.

That said, yeah, I'm getting kinda tired of all desert, all the time.  The Mandalorian had something of a space-western gunfighter vibe going on, so it kinda fit, but The Mandalorian did manage to visit a number of other planets.  Boba Fett stuck around Tatooine because he somehow decided he wanted to run one of the towns.  I think both of those series missed the opportunity to show us a larger, mostly-unexplored Star Wars universe.  The Mandalorian tried, but got sucked back to Tatooine anyway.  Now it's time for more stories set on a desert planet that honestly has no business being such a center of activity in an empire that spans countless planets in countless star systems.  Yet here we are.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on March 09, 2022, 09:07:52 PM
Ok, that.... looks pretty awesome. Going to watch with no expectations, and no further teasers/trailers/spoilers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on March 10, 2022, 06:16:57 AM
Been wondering if this is more ret-conning . . . haven't watched Ep IV in awhile; was it implied at all that Obi-Wan knew who Luke was? I remember him telling Luke that his father was a great pilot . . .
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Podaar on March 10, 2022, 06:28:29 AM
 ??? Of course Obi-Wan new who Luke was. Luke's father (Anakin) was a great pilot.

If I remember right, he was the one who gave the new born Luke to his Aunt and Uncle in the first place.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Grappler on March 10, 2022, 07:02:52 AM
I wouldn't call it ret-conning.  In Episode IV, Obi-Wan wasn't forthcoming with Luke in that aspect.  He just said that he knew his father, etc.

It's not like Alec Guinness said "Well, I handed you as a baby to your Uncle Owen and spent the last 20 years secretly watching over you."  That's kind of what this show is for - exploring that period of time where Obi Wan was in hiding. 

I loved the trailer and am really looking forward to this - it was the single show I looked forward to the most when Disney+ was announced years ago.  Seeing Ewan again is going to be awesome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on March 10, 2022, 07:26:40 AM
Actually the funniest thing is Obi-Wan going from age 30 to age 70 in 20 years  . . .
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on March 10, 2022, 07:30:33 AM
Actually the funniest thing is Obi-Wan going from age 30 to age 70 in 20 years  . . .

Funny enough, Sir Alec Guinness was around 62 or so when he made Star Wars, and Ewan McGregor is 50 making Obi Wan, which is set 10 years or so prior. So it's oddly enough not that far off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: T-ski on March 10, 2022, 08:30:07 AM
Actually the funniest thing is Obi-Wan going from age 30 to age 70 in 20 years  . . .

Funny enough, Sir Alec Guinness was around 62 or so when he made Star Wars, and Ewan McGregor is 50 making Obi Wan, which is set 10 years or so prior. So it's oddly enough not that far off.

But Ewan looked like he was in his 30’s when he handed over Luke as a baby, hence he’d only be in his 50’s when Episode IV happens.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on March 10, 2022, 08:30:40 AM
Dude just ages well. But the age difference isn't big.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 10, 2022, 09:22:33 AM
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d81e34c2f0c8d9fdf724345a472038d6-lq)

I dunno, 19 years on a desert planet can do pretty bad things for your health...

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 10, 2022, 10:03:50 PM
Does any backstory anywhere explain why Leia had memories of her mother even though she died in childbirth?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on March 10, 2022, 10:11:38 PM
This is probably a stretch, but I always considered that Leia's adoptive parents showed her pictures of her mom and told her about her, and Leia formulated "memories" of her based on that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 11, 2022, 04:45:18 AM
This is probably a stretch, but I always considered that Leia's adoptive parents showed her pictures of her mom and told her about her, and Leia formulated "memories" of her based on that.

Padme came to her as a force ghost.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on March 11, 2022, 07:08:18 AM
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d81e34c2f0c8d9fdf724345a472038d6-lq)

I dunno, 19 years on a desert planet can do pretty bad things for your health...

-Marc.

I want to try that blue drink.  Very little in the food world is naturally blue, and especially not that sort of bright, almost glowing blue.  There's no apparent blueberries on Tatooine that I can tell!  :) :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 11, 2022, 07:09:35 AM
Does any backstory anywhere explain why Leia had memories of her mother even though she died in childbirth?

I think I heard that it was because Lucas really hadn't planned on SW being the cultural phenomenon that it turned out to be and hadn't really thought out any of that backstory stuff being really relevant until he realized that doing prequels could bank him another 2 or 3 Billion.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 11, 2022, 07:11:32 AM
All kidding aside....all in all I think he and the powers that be have done a pretty good job at reconciling a lot of the plot holes and what not that they'd have had no idea would become an issue due to the unforseen success that SW would go on to have.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on March 11, 2022, 10:20:24 AM

I want to try that blue drink. 

They have that drink in Hollywood studios in the Star Wars section, I was quite surprised that I enjoyed an overpriced cold blue drink.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on March 11, 2022, 10:38:00 AM

I want to try that blue drink. 

They have that drink in Hollywood studios in the Star Wars section, I was quite surprised that I enjoyed an overpriced cold blue drink.

What was it like?  A pina colada?  Was it alcoholic?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on March 11, 2022, 10:47:30 AM

I want to try that blue drink. 

They have that drink in Hollywood studios in the Star Wars section, I was quite surprised that I enjoyed an overpriced cold blue drink.

What was it like?  A pina colada?  Was it alcoholic?

That's basically what it is, slightly modified. They have both, I tried the non-alcoholic one and that was still like $8 in a tiny cup.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 11, 2022, 12:05:00 PM
Does any backstory anywhere explain why Leia had memories of her mother even though she died in childbirth?
It's just a plot hole.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 07, 2022, 02:57:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MhnNF5j.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 07, 2022, 03:09:29 PM
I love how they're drinking blue milk, or whatever that stuff's supposed to be.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: YtseJam on April 07, 2022, 05:05:38 PM
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_milk
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Polarbear on May 04, 2022, 07:37:06 AM
https://youtu.be/3Yh_6_zItPU

New Obi-Wan trailer! Shows some new stuff, but doesn't reveal too much either!

I Liked it! :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 04, 2022, 08:04:42 AM
I am very much looking forward to the Obi-Wan series. I think in the first trailer there was even a location from Jedi Fallen Order? It also looks like Joel Edgerton as Uncle Owen will play an important role, which is cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 04, 2022, 08:40:19 AM
Tough not to be pumped about this series.....looks pretty awesome!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on May 04, 2022, 08:41:59 AM
I think my ONLY question is whether or not James Earl Jones is voicing Vader. It'd just be so odd without him
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zantera on May 04, 2022, 08:49:26 AM
I think my ONLY question is whether or not James Earl Jones is voicing Vader. It'd just be so odd without him

Wouldn't it be equally weird to bring back Hayden to play him if he's only gonna be covered? Maybe they do some flashbacks though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on May 04, 2022, 08:54:11 AM
I think my ONLY question is whether or not James Earl Jones is voicing Vader. It'd just be so odd without him

Wouldn't it be equally weird to bring back Hayden to play him if he's only gonna be covered? Maybe they do some flashbacks though.

If they bring Hayden back just to be in the suit that would be VERY weird. If you want Hayden in the suit with JEJ as the voice, and also some shots of him without the helmet/flashbacks with Hayden, that seems ideal.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Polarbear on May 04, 2022, 08:57:19 AM
I think I read that Hayden Christensen was asked if JEJ is voicing Vader, and he just replied something like "can't comment on it".

He is in it, I'm sure!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on May 04, 2022, 10:20:18 PM
This has so much potential for disaster, but of course I will watch it anyway. Over under 3.5 episodes until Mando and/or Grogu show up?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on May 05, 2022, 12:00:13 AM
This has so much potential for disaster, but of course I will watch it anyway. Over under 3.5 episodes until Mando and/or Grogu show up?

Wouldn't Mando/Din Djarin be like 10 years old during the time frame of Obi-Wan Kenobi? I guess he could become friends with 10yo Luke.  :lol

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on May 05, 2022, 04:45:33 AM
I think my ONLY question is whether or not James Earl Jones is voicing Vader. It'd just be so odd without him

Wouldn't it be equally weird to bring back Hayden to play him if he's only gonna be covered? Maybe they do some flashbacks though.

If they bring Hayden back just to be in the suit that would be VERY weird. If you want Hayden in the suit with JEJ as the voice, and also some shots of him without the helmet/flashbacks with Hayden, that seems ideal.

What would really be weird was if JEJ was under the helmet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 06, 2022, 12:40:58 PM
Was watching Ewan on the Jimmy Kimmel Show and learned that his uncle is Wedge Antilles!?!? That's so random but so awesome. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 06, 2022, 12:51:26 PM
I remember that being news when it was announced he would be in Ep1. I also seem to remember Uncle Wedge advised him not to take the role. I don't recall the reasoning, other than maybe it would end up defining his career and thus limit his opportunities for roles in the future.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on May 06, 2022, 01:12:09 PM
This has so much potential for disaster, but of course I will watch it anyway. Over under 3.5 episodes until Mando and/or Grogu show up?

Wouldn't Mando/Din Djarin be like 10 years old during the time frame of Obi-Wan Kenobi? I guess he could become friends with 10yo Luke.  :lol

-Marc.

Maybe we get a baby Boba Fett instead.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: T-ski on May 06, 2022, 01:31:29 PM
This has so much potential for disaster, but of course I will watch it anyway. Over under 3.5 episodes until Mando and/or Grogu show up?

Wouldn't Mando/Din Djarin be like 10 years old during the time frame of Obi-Wan Kenobi? I guess he could become friends with 10yo Luke.  :lol

-Marc.

Maybe we get a baby Boba Fett instead.

We had toddler Boba Fett in Episode 2.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on May 06, 2022, 01:53:43 PM
This has so much potential for disaster, but of course I will watch it anyway. Over under 3.5 episodes until Mando and/or Grogu show up?

Wouldn't Mando/Din Djarin be like 10 years old during the time frame of Obi-Wan Kenobi? I guess he could become friends with 10yo Luke.  :lol

-Marc.

Maybe we get a baby Boba Fett instead.

We had toddler Boba Fett in Episode 2.

You know, I've never seen that movie (or Episodes 8-9).

Still, I wouldn't put them past writing a young Boba Fett into the story somehow. MORE backstory.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 18, 2022, 09:18:51 AM
I watched the sequel trilogy from start to finish for the first time recently. Before that, I had seen each film a couple of times, but never as a continuous experience over just a few days. My opinion of it is largely unchanged... I think that Kylo Ren is a phenomenal character, the Rey-Kylo dynamic is fascinating, the sound and visuals are mind blowing, Luke is given a whole new dimension, and certain moments really blow me away. Unfortunately, it also feels messy and the soft ret-conning of VIII by IX hurts my soul a bit. :lol

This is a gross oversimplification, but I'd probably describe the sequel trilogy as "whole is less than the sum of its parts", the prequel trilogy as "whole is greater than the sum of its parts", and the original trilogy as "whole and individual parts are both excellent". As time passes, more and more I find myself thinking that Star Wars is a bit of a mess, but a beautiful and entertaining one at that. I don't have the reverence for it as the hardcore fanbase (except V, which I think is a masterpiece), but in a weird way, I also think that helps me enjoy it more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on May 18, 2022, 01:34:43 PM
 I did that sometime back and may do it again soon, it's been a while. It's got some excellent moments and yes I absolutely recognize there are issues. The characters are great throughout though them not planning out a proper arc hurt Finn a lot, he was so promising in the Force Awakens.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on May 18, 2022, 01:36:34 PM
I did that sometime back and may do it again soon, it's been a while. It's got some excellent moments and yes I absolutely recognize there are issues. The characters are great throughout though them not planning out a proper arc hurt Finn a lot, he was so promising in the Force Awakens.


Yeah, the lack of use of Finn was a huge shame. I'd love to see a D+ series focused on him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on May 18, 2022, 04:40:49 PM
I did that sometime back and may do it again soon, it's been a while. It's got some excellent moments and yes I absolutely recognize there are issues. The characters are great throughout though them not planning out a proper arc hurt Finn a lot, he was so promising in the Force Awakens.


Yeah, the lack of use of Finn was a huge shame. I'd love to see a D+ series focused on him.

 “You ain’t going to Disney Plus me!”
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 18, 2022, 07:20:06 PM
This is a gross oversimplification, but I'd probably describe the sequel trilogy as "whole is less than the sum of its parts", the prequel trilogy as "whole is greater than the sum of its parts", and the original trilogy as "whole and individual parts are both excellent".

Never thought of it that way. I didn't care much for the Sequel Trilogy but could agree the "whole is less than the sum of its parts." I just don't think that sum is all that high. I have fond memories of the Prequels, but might contend that those movies could also be a case of the "whole is less than the sum of its parts." There are some fantastic parts of II and III that I don't think the trilogy exceeds when taken as a whole. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on May 18, 2022, 07:38:22 PM
It kinda depends on how you interpret the expression.  I think the prequels had a lot of ground to cover, and there's a good story buried in there, but too many pieces are missing, and it all feels "off".  So in that sense, the whole is somehow greater than the sum of the parts.  It doesn't add up properly, but it tells the story anyway.  The sequels are the opposite.  Again, some pretty cool parts, but the story they tell across three movies isn't great.  It should have been better, given what they had to work with.  The grand conclusion of a nine-part epic should have been mind-blowing; instead most people are like "well, that happened."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on May 19, 2022, 07:12:03 AM
It kinda depends on how you interpret the expression.  I think the prequels had a lot of ground to cover, and there's a good story buried in there, but too many pieces are missing, and it all feels "off".  So in that sense, the whole is somehow greater than the sum of the parts.  It doesn't add up properly, but it tells the story anyway.  The sequels are the opposite.  Again, some pretty cool parts, but the story they tell across three movies isn't great.  It should have been better, given what they had to work with.  The grand conclusion of a nine-part epic should have been mind-blowing; instead most people are like "well, that happened."

I think this is pretty spot on.  I was (and still am, to some degree) very much an apologist for the Prequels.  They were playing in tight quarters and they did as well as can be expected.  The sky was the limit, so to speak, with the Sequels, and while TFA was a solid start, the rest didn't live up to the promise.  I don't know if it was debunked or not, but I read somewhere that they let whatever director was next plot the "next 2.5 hours" or whatever, and that is epic level stupid. Dare I say, almost negligence level stupid.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on May 19, 2022, 07:29:28 AM
It kinda depends on how you interpret the expression.  I think the prequels had a lot of ground to cover, and there's a good story buried in there, but too many pieces are missing, and it all feels "off".  So in that sense, the whole is somehow greater than the sum of the parts.  It doesn't add up properly, but it tells the story anyway.  The sequels are the opposite.  Again, some pretty cool parts, but the story they tell across three movies isn't great.  It should have been better, given what they had to work with.  The grand conclusion of a nine-part epic should have been mind-blowing; instead most people are like "well, that happened."

I think this is pretty spot on.  I was (and still am, to some degree) very much an apologist for the Prequels.  They were playing in tight quarters and they did as well as can be expected.  The sky was the limit, so to speak, with the Sequels, and while TFA was a solid start, the rest didn't live up to the promise.  I don't know if it was debunked or not, but I read somewhere that they let whatever director was next plot the "next 2.5 hours" or whatever, and that is epic level stupid. Dare I say, almost negligence level stupid.
That is pretty much what they did. I can't fathom why they thought that was a good idea. I guess it was pretty apparent that George Lucas didn't have a fully fleshed out original trilogy when he started and it turned out great, so why couldn't they follow that same pattern? But at least in the case, the same guy was running the show on all three movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 19, 2022, 07:30:42 AM
with the Sequels, and while TFA was a solid start, the rest didn't live up to the promise.  I don't know if it was debunked or not, but I read somewhere that they let whatever director was next plot the "next 2.5 hours" or whatever, and that is epic level stupid. Dare I say, almost negligence level stupid.

It's unforgivable how badly they dropped the ball on the sequel trilogy. I personally don't 'hate' the movies.....actually the opposite, I enjoyed each one as a separate entity.....but as a whole they aren't cohesive at all and are a mess. There was a HUGE opportunity to make something great given the resources involved and they failed by having no overarching plan in place.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: kaos2900 on May 20, 2022, 09:57:42 AM
I think they learned from their mistakes. The shows are very aligned. And if you read the novels, there is a ton of planning and collaboration.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on May 20, 2022, 10:15:43 AM
I think they learned from their mistakes. The shows are very aligned. And if you read the novels, there is a ton of planning and collaboration.
Oh yeah, I agree I think they learned their lesson. It's a shame they had to learn on the core Star Wars saga and not some offshoot. But what's done is done. I'm anxious to see what the future holds in the Star Wars universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on May 26, 2022, 01:38:50 PM
Trailer for ANDOR:
https://youtu.be/j5UX1Adanis

Also revealed today:
Quote
The Mandalorian and Grogu continue their journey in Season 3 of #TheMandalorian, streaming February 2023 on Disney+.

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/284385223_5417943568257200_2992962825995923777_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_e15_fr_q65&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8024bb&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=Y7V7PZz4WJAAX8CHvwt&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-QaUtXki1jzzWm0nuUEJizieqonmiKxWzjsig4sUayBg&oe=62948CC1)

And this stunning new announcement as well:

Quote

Star Wars: Skeleton Crew, an Original series starring Jude Law, from executive producers Jon Watts, Christopher Ford, Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni, is streaming in 2023 only on Disney+.

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/284042336_5417966504921573_704486190750345368_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_e15_fr_q65&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8024bb&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=gCs-ai8b9esAX_P12br&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8DKvvB5YyTpQbLfxERfLn3GD4EqpHqNgf3E-Cn8RQFWw&oe=6293FDA0)

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 26, 2022, 01:49:18 PM
I'm digging that Andor trailer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on May 26, 2022, 02:25:56 PM
I'm digging that Andor trailer.

Same.. Very excited about that one
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zantera on May 26, 2022, 02:47:39 PM
Cautiously excited for the Obi-Wan show, I'm sure they will milk the original characters like Vader as much as possible because they can.

Can't say I'm excited to get a show about the most boring character in one of the worst Star Wars movies (Rogue One) so might pass on that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 26, 2022, 02:53:22 PM
https://www.lg.com/us/starwars
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on May 26, 2022, 09:58:20 PM
Can say I'm excited to get a show about a character in one of the best Star Wars movies (Rogue One).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on May 27, 2022, 06:58:26 AM
I wonder if Skeleton Crew is replacing the cancelled Rangers of the New Republic show? Sounds like Skeleton Crew is taking place during the Mandalorian timeline, so I'm guessing it'll be a part of the connected Mandoverse.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 27, 2022, 08:27:54 AM
Andor looks good, but I am generally not a fan of prequels, and this is a prequel to a prequel.

I don't know.  It does look good.  I may check it out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on May 27, 2022, 09:07:03 AM
Not sure if we're going to have a dedicated thread for the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, but going by the first two episodes, my guess is that the show is aimed for a much younger crowd. The action scenes and fight choreography seems very ..tame? Though the opening scene was pretty good.

Not sure what to think of it. It's definitely a mixed bag, seems all over the place right now. Who knows another 4 episodes might change my perception, but I get that this Boba Fett tier or lower material right now. The two Mando seasons were miles above this. Heck the two Mando episodes in Boba Fett were miles above this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: T-ski on May 27, 2022, 07:32:46 PM
Enjoyed the first two episodes, they kinda threw a curve ball in the storyline but I don’t mind it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on May 27, 2022, 08:11:54 PM
Watched the first episode. A bit of a snooze. Was that Flea? Not a big fan of the inquisitors, especially the woman. Just not a terribly convincing character. I imagine things will pick up in the second episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Melphina on May 27, 2022, 08:15:51 PM
I'm starting episode 2 now but a couple things stood out in episode 1 and I was not looking for anything to complain about. The dialog at times feels contrived especially for someone as young as Leia, and other characters just seem so clichè in their lines and delivery. I'm not sure if they're aiming for a younger crowd because of the violence we see in episode 1. A direct death at the start, someone gets hanged, someone loses their hand on camera for example.

The other thing is that chase in the woods. Didn't look believable. Reminded me of the bikes in Boba Fett.

Absolutely beautiful visuals though, wow. Paired with the music in that city, that was a gorgeous vibe. I want more of that...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on May 27, 2022, 10:11:53 PM
Nothing spectacular, but it was good fun. Anxious to see where this goes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on May 28, 2022, 04:37:04 AM
Nothing spectacular, but it was good fun. Anxious to see where this goes.

I would agree here.  It was bugging me who Third Sister was.  Thankfully IMDB relieved my curiosity - Queen's Gambit.

And while I never watched Rebels, jingle.son let out a very loud "That's bullshit, he's not dead".  Wonder if he'll come back in this series at all?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on May 28, 2022, 05:20:17 AM
Off to a decent start. Nothing jumps out at me as "wow, that was an amazing scene", but the tone of the show is spot on and the pace so far is a little slow. I'm ok with the pace building as it goes on. I just hope it doesn't leave so much for the finale like Bob Fett did and then fail to deliver. I was pleased to see Jimmy Smits return. I felt his character was underutilized in the prequels. Young Leia was an unexpected surprise.

Two criticisms: the Leia chase scene in the forest drug on too long. No was does a small for her age 10 year old girl outrun those guys like that. Also, I didn't like how the third sister knew that Vader is Anakin. I thought that was supposed to be a big secret that very few people knew about. I would have preferred that Anakin learn Vader was Anakin during an in person meeting between them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: T-ski on May 28, 2022, 09:30:50 AM
Watched the first episode. A bit of a snooze. Was that Flea? Not a big fan of the inquisitors, especially the woman. Just not a terribly convincing character. I imagine things will pick up in the second episode.

Ya, the woman inquisitor was poorly cast, completely over acting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on May 28, 2022, 10:03:11 AM
Watched the first episode. A bit of a snooze. Was that Flea? Not a big fan of the inquisitors, especially the woman. Just not a terribly convincing character. I imagine things will pick up in the second episode.

Ya, the woman inquisitor was poorly cast, completely over acting.

An absurd amount of the villain development in these TV series has involved a villain standing in the middle of a desert town square threatening frightened onlookers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 28, 2022, 04:37:33 PM
Ya, the woman inquisitor was poorly cast, completely over acting.

Agreed. I mean…..she’s not in the animated shows so there’s nothing to go off of but……just didn’t seem menacing enough. And, there’s no way the Grand Inquisitor is dead. He’s around in the future and something as simple and straight forward as that wouldn’t have caught him off guard. He’s too powerful for that simple a death.

That being said…..I liked the first two episodes and think it’s neat that they’re incorporating Leia into it. McGregor was great…..especially when learning Vader was still alive.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 28, 2022, 05:21:55 PM
Also, I didn't like how the third sister knew that Vader is Anakin. I thought that was supposed to be a big secret that very few people knew about.

We don't know her full past yet.....they're hinting she came from 'low' standing.....the Inquisitors are former Jedi.....maybe she knew Vader's story? Maybe Kenobi gave it away in that moment....which is the theory I'm going with. He's been out of the game so long that his mind wasn't ready to battle force users yet. I mean, it took him a bit to fire up the force to grab Leia so he may have just accidentally revealed it to her through his feelings.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: King Postwhore on May 28, 2022, 06:52:37 PM
All complaining about the villain aspect forget that the main villin had a suit that could keep him alive so he could force choke for information as well to put authority in place.

The Sith do not look as anyone as equils including other Sith.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zantera on May 29, 2022, 02:13:50 AM
That Leia chase through the forest only needed the Benny Hill music to make the scene complete. It felt like a farce.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Polarbear on May 29, 2022, 02:43:17 AM
https://youtu.be/4HLDaBGdnLc

I don't know if this has been posted already, but here is a teaser for Star Wars: Jedi Survivor! Sequel to the 2019 game Jedi Fallen Order.

I really liked the first game, and it's great that Respawn got the chance to make a sequel. More single player SW games please. :tup

Also, this supposedly takes place roughly at the same time as the Obi-Wan show, so could we see some cross over between the two?

Only on next gen consoles though.. So no more PS4 and XB1.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on May 29, 2022, 06:36:06 AM
Both chase scenes with Leia were bad.  I mean, any adult would have caught and snatched that little (literally and figuratively) brat in about 6 steps.  She's just got little itty-bitty legs, ffs.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on May 29, 2022, 06:44:59 AM
I'm starting episode 2 now but a couple things stood out in episode 1 and I was not looking for anything to complain about. The dialog at times feels contrived especially for someone as young as Leia, and other characters just seem so clichè in their lines and delivery. I'm not sure if they're aiming for a younger crowd because of the violence we see in episode 1. A direct death at the start, someone gets hanged, someone loses their hand on camera for example.

The other thing is that chase in the woods. Didn't look believable. Reminded me of the bikes in Boba Fett.

Absolutely beautiful visuals though, wow. Paired with the music in that city, that was a gorgeous vibe. I want more of that...

Well, it’s 2022. That level of violence is only considered beginner’s level for kids these days it seems.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on May 29, 2022, 06:54:41 AM
Overall I thought the first two episodes were great. McGregor is of course fantastic, and 10-year-old Leia is brilliant.

The Inquisitors also seem like a pretty intimidating bunch and I have no issue with Reva/Third Sister. If anything, I found her more desperate style contrasting well with the more deliberate approach of the Grand Inquisitor - makes her unpredictable and so threatening in a different way.

My only minor complaint (as others have said) is that apparently 10-year-old Leia can outrun all adults. For some reason these Star Wars shows are just not good at chase scenes. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on May 29, 2022, 08:16:01 AM


My only minor complaint (as others have said) is that apparently 10-year-old Leia can outrun all adults. For some reason these Star Wars shows are just not good at chase scenes. :lol

Yeah...I mean, at some point, the team looked at the finished product, fist bumped each other, and put a seal of approval on that boring ass shit. Yikes man.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on May 29, 2022, 11:11:25 AM


My only minor complaint (as others have said) is that apparently 10-year-old Leia can outrun all adults. For some reason these Star Wars shows are just not good at chase scenes. :lol

Yeah...I mean, at some point, the team looked at the finished product, fist bumped each other, and put a seal of approval on that boring ass shit. Yikes man.
At least the Kenobi ones so far aren't as bad as the Boba Fett ones. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on May 29, 2022, 01:17:03 PM


My only minor complaint (as others have said) is that apparently 10-year-old Leia can outrun all adults. For some reason these Star Wars shows are just not good at chase scenes. :lol

Yeah...I mean, at some point, the team looked at the finished product, fist bumped each other, and put a seal of approval on that boring ass shit. Yikes man.
At least the Kenobi ones so far aren't as bad as the Boba Fett ones. :lol

Oh yeah...the mod-influenced scooter chase through Mos Eisley was quite possibly the worst Star Wars output ever, and I'm including Jar Jar in that statement.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on May 31, 2022, 10:17:53 AM
I'm finally watching Obi wan Kenobi. Pretty good, but Leia's dialog is cringy as fuck. Adult dialog written for a child. Are all screenwriters aliens who have never interacted with a child to know how they speak?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on May 31, 2022, 10:42:49 AM
I was thinking about Reva's abduction of Leia. There's no way she knows who Leia is. Did she just abduct her because she knew Obi Wan was friendly with the Organas? I mean... I know writers of shows and movies use coincidence all the time to drive the plot, but that's a pretty big coincidence.

And also, why does Luke get a dedicated Jedi master to watch over him and make sure he's safe while Leia doesn't? Just because the Organa's are rich and important and would presumably have security already?

I'm finally watching Obi wan Kenobi. Pretty good, but Leia's dialog is cringy as fuck. Adult dialog written for a child. Are all screenwriters aliens who have never interacted with a child to know how they speak?
I think the dialog was in character with who Leia becomes as an adult, and I appreciate they were trying to give her that same spunk, but I agree that the vocabulary used was a bit much.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on May 31, 2022, 10:47:32 AM
Show was mostly good. A lot of really cringy dialogue from everyone and some meh acting from a lot of the support cast. But Ewan really redeems it.

The plot thus far IS quite contrived. The damn king or whatever of a planet has no one else to go after Leia? He picks Obi Wan after not seeing him for 10 years?

I buy that Reva did it without knowing who she was really, but I am not sure I buy that Bail has no one else to ask for help or that Obi Wan would be his first choice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 31, 2022, 11:27:53 AM
I was thinking about Reva's abduction of Leia. There's no way she knows who Leia is. Did she just abduct her because she knew Obi Wan was friendly with the Organas?

That's exactly why she did it.....there's a line in the show where she mentioned she found through historical data that Organa was involved/friendly with Kenobi back in the day so that's why she kidnapped the kid.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on May 31, 2022, 11:42:34 AM
I was thinking about Reva's abduction of Leia. There's no way she knows who Leia is. Did she just abduct her because she knew Obi Wan was friendly with the Organas?

That's exactly why she did it.....there's a line in the show where she mentioned she found through historical data that Organa was involved/friendly with Kenobi back in the day so that's why she kidnapped the kid.
Thanks. I must have missed that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 31, 2022, 11:46:13 AM
I was thinking about Reva's abduction of Leia. There's no way she knows who Leia is. Did she just abduct her because she knew Obi Wan was friendly with the Organas?

That's exactly why she did it.....there's a line in the show where she mentioned she found through historical data that Organa was involved/friendly with Kenobi back in the day so that's why she kidnapped the kid.
Thanks. I must have missed that.

It was sandwiched in there when the Grand Inquisitor was chastising her for searching out Kenobi for her own gain when they arrived on the planet....I think he may have even cut her off as she was explaining it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on May 31, 2022, 04:05:40 PM
Wow, this pocket of Star Wars 'fans' really needs to go away. I just stumbled across this story. The fact that Lucasfilm had to prep her to warn her that she will most certainly get racist attacks is sickening. This side of Sci-Fi fandom is really getting old.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/star-wars-obi-wan-kenobi-moses-ingram-racist-attacks-153927185.html
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on May 31, 2022, 05:35:25 PM
Oh fuck right off. I’m loving Third Sister so far. And Ingrams portrayal of her is great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on May 31, 2022, 05:38:46 PM
Third Sister is badass.  I think she's incredibly misguided and needs a light sabre through the gut (ha!) but as a character she's fine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on May 31, 2022, 05:46:08 PM
Yeah, imagine being so fucking dense as to be racist towards a character from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

I heard one racist fuck called her a diversity hire. Just fuck way off with that bullshit.. We can have three feet tall green dudes, chicks with tentacles for hair, but heaven forbid whave a fucking black person. Didn't Boyega get this bullshit too? And the girl that played Rose?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on May 31, 2022, 05:52:22 PM
Agreed. She's the off the rails, misguided, hard-headed, power hungry baddy and she plays it perfectly. I immediately hated her (the character, if you get me) so she is doing her job.

I just get tired that every non-white person to come through Star Wars these past few years gets ripped apart on social media. I just don't get racism.


Didn't Boyega get this bullshit too? And the girl that played Rose?


Yes, they both did. Rose's (Kelly Marie Tran) was so bad she quit all social media entirely.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on May 31, 2022, 06:02:37 PM
That's right... Thought it was registering for some reason.

Why do people fucking suck so much?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: NoseofNicko on May 31, 2022, 06:13:58 PM
I heard one racist fuck called her a diversity hire.

Someone on a forum I’m on called her that too. Idiots.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on May 31, 2022, 07:01:11 PM
Well, for me, it's not just her. A fair share of acting isn't the greatest on this show. I'm hoping the character gets better. At least have some cool lightsaber duels. She certainly isn't the worst on the show. That award goes to Leia.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on May 31, 2022, 07:14:55 PM
Well, for me, it's not just her. A fair share of acting isn't the greatest on this show. I'm hoping the character gets better. At least have some cool lightsaber duels. She certainly isn't the worst on the show. That award goes to Leia.

Well, as I see it, Star Wars has never been a standard bearer for acting anyways, so I always have my expectations low in that department.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on May 31, 2022, 07:25:42 PM
Well, for me, it's not just her. A fair share of acting isn't the greatest on this show. I'm hoping the character gets better. At least have some cool lightsaber duels. She certainly isn't the worst on the show. That award goes to Leia.

Well, as I see it, Star Wars has never been a standard bearer for acting anyways, so I always have my expectations low in that department.

It's my biggest pet peeve. Bad acting takes me out of the movie or show and it's all I focus on. I just wonder how that person was selected at the audition.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 31, 2022, 07:46:44 PM
I’m willing to give her another episode as the Third Sister to see if it improves …..but I don’t care about her color or whatever……I care that I don’t buy her being a sinister Inquisitor. Her ‘mean’ demeanor is forced and feels contrived and if we weren’t told about this apparent drive or quest for power or to stand out we’d never know it. That type of trait would and should be apparent in the way an actor carries and presents themselves yet it’s absent. It’s not all her fault but casting is a major part in storytelling obviously and IMO they missed the mark with her.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Logain Ablar on June 01, 2022, 05:07:19 AM
I’m willing to give her another episode as the Third Sister to see if it improves …..but I don’t care about her color or whatever……I care that I don’t buy her being a sinister Inquisitor. Her ‘mean’ demeanor is forced and feels contrived and if we weren’t told about this apparent drive or quest for power or to stand out we’d never know it. That type of trait would and should be apparent in the way an actor carries and presents themselves yet it’s absent. It’s not all her fault but casting is a major part in storytelling obviously and IMO they missed the mark with her.

Yeah, I agree. I didn't find the character very convincing at all. Same with the fake Jedi guy - it took me right out of the show for a few minutes. Anyway, is he not playing a very dangerous game pretending to be a Jedi, when they are literally being hunted to extinction all around him?

I understand where they were going with Leia, trying to make her into a precocious, strong-willed child as a sort of precursor to who she would become, but I think they just pushed it too far. The chase scene with Flea was unintentionally funny. It was like playing "chasies" in the school playground.  :lol

Will keep going with the third episode to see if it settles any better for me.

I have to say, I really hate the racist stuff on Twitter. I swear, social media seems to bring out the absolute worst in people. But, having said that, I'd be concerned that it's hard to give legitimate criticism, or say you didn't like a character, or the dialogue was clunky, or whatever, without being labelled as an -ist of some type.

I wonder what people would have made of the the introduction of Lando in ESB, if Twitter was around in the day??
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on June 01, 2022, 05:30:03 AM
I wonder what people would have made of the the introduction of Lando in ESB, if Twitter was around in the day??

I always use the example of 'The Shawshank Redemption' the highest ranked movie on IMBD.  Yet if it was released in 2022 it would have been review bombed and called 'woke' (seriously fuck that term) because 'Red' played by Morgan Freeman in the source material was a white man.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2022, 07:01:30 AM
I have to say, I really hate the racist stuff on Twitter. I swear, social media seems to bring out the absolute worst in people. But, having said that, I'd be concerned that it's hard to give legitimate criticism, or say you didn't like a character, or the dialogue was clunky, or whatever, without being labelled as an -ist of some type.

True. I simply don't like her because (IMO) she does not fit the mold that 'Rebels' established of an Inquisitor.....not just visually but persona as well. Inquisitors have been broken and tamed by Vader....they are his personal elite squad of hunter/killers. While they are 'individuals' they're controlled by Vader and The Grand Inquisitor is to steal a ST term Vader's #1. What he says goes. Her disregard for his instruction just doesn't fit. I get the point is that she's trying to impress Vader and gain his favor but it doesn't fit the established mold of the Inquisitors. Which, may be why we never see her in the future shows.

Anyway, maybe her character will grow on me but first impression was that it missed the mark. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2022, 07:24:13 AM
I don't love the character of the third sister, but I think the actress is doing a fine job portraying her. Even if she were doing horribly, her race would have nothing to do with it. I simply do not understand racist attacks like that. I don't understand what's wrong with some people.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2022, 07:39:09 AM
Even if she were doing horribly, her race would have nothing to do with it. I simply do not understand racist attacks like that. I don't understand what's wrong with some people.

1000% agree. It's a shame that our culture is so predictable in this manner that Disney prepped her for it before it all even happened.


I don't love the character of the third sister, but I think the actress is doing a fine job portraying her.

Maybe the point with her character is exactly what the Grand Inquisitor was saying to her.....she'd just simply not like one of them and never will be.....which then would explain why she doesn't have the inquisitor 'vibe'. To which, I can and will throw some leeway towards her character and see where this goes. I think the actresses natural beauty though does her a disservice because I don't get the 'evil' or sinister vibe from her at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2022, 08:12:22 AM
I think the actresses natural beauty though does her a disservice because I don't get the 'evil' or sinister vibe from her at all.
I'll agree with that. But I can appreciate when evil people aren't ugly and good people aren't beautiful.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on June 01, 2022, 08:26:57 AM
Who is the character and who is the actress? I'm trying to follow this without having seen the show...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 01, 2022, 08:48:24 AM
Who is the character and who is the actress? I'm trying to follow this without having seen the show...

The actress is Moses Ingram, her character is a member of an inquiditor squad hunting jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on June 01, 2022, 09:16:29 AM
I think she's gorgeous, at least out of character (I haven't seen the show).

What's the root of the so-called "racism"?  I've read a couple articles, and they don't really say anything other than calling certain fans "racist" and playing the supporting comments from Ewan MacGregor and the producers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 01, 2022, 09:26:09 AM
I think she's gorgeous, at least out of character (I haven't seen the show).

What's the root of the so-called "racism"?  I've read a couple articles, and they don't really say anything other than calling certain fans "racist" and playing the supporting comments from Ewan MacGregor and the producers.

She's received hundreds of hate messages, including death threats.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on June 01, 2022, 10:00:35 AM
I heard one racist fuck called her a diversity hire.

Someone on a forum I’m on called her that too. Idiots.

The dead giveaway is when people start saying "I'm not racist, I'm just against diversity hires!" followed by every non-white person getting death threats and being called a diversity hire. Some people just really suck.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: King Postwhore on June 01, 2022, 12:48:02 PM
Again the minority voices (Probably 200 assholes send messages to her) while the silent majority, love her work so far and never say a peep.  It's the worst part of the internet where people would never say the stuff they do to someone's face.   I hope she kicks ass acting for a long time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2022, 12:50:42 PM
Watched part 3 this morning. I mean, it was Darth Vader... how was that not awesome? James Earl Jones is back. I was worried about that since I hadn't heard whether he was reprising his role or not. The episode overall felt a little slow until the end. Obi Wan's escape felt a little weak. Like no way does Vader let him escape that easily. But overall another solid entry. I hope the pace and intensity continues to build.

On a side note: no one should ever voice Vader except James Earl Jones. As far as I'm concerned there is no Vader without him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on June 01, 2022, 01:34:24 PM
Is Christensen actually going to have a speaking part?

And we’re at the point where we’re picking on a 5-year old for their acting?  :facepalm:

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2022, 01:43:58 PM
And we’re at the point where we’re picking on a 5-year old for their acting?  :facepalm:

I don't think it's picking on the 5 year old actress. I think it's picking on Disney for the writing/directing and maybe even casting an actress that can't convey it all in a convincing manner.


That's really been my largest issue with Disney is some of their casting choices. Casting is HUGE and just because the actor/actress may be a big name doesn't mean they should get the part. I'd be fine with all unknowns if it meant the roles were cast and conveyed correctly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: King Postwhore on June 01, 2022, 01:50:17 PM
It's funny you feel this way Gary.  The wife and I loved the spunk of little Leia.  It's foreshadowing who she becomes.  At least we felt this way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on June 01, 2022, 04:36:54 PM
It's funny you feel this way Gary.  The wife and I loved the spunk of little Leia.  It's foreshadowing who she becomes.  At least we felt this way.

She's still speaking like an adult and it's just weird.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2022, 05:08:34 PM
It's funny you feel this way Gary.  The wife and I loved the spunk of little Leia.  It's foreshadowing who she becomes.  At least we felt this way.
I like the spunk. I don't care for some of the dialog. I think it's fitting for her to have a higher than normal vocabulary given that she is probably highly educated. But a few lines were a bit much.

Is Christensen actually going to have a speaking part?
I was wondering this as well. Did he really just come back for a physical role in the suit? I wouldn't be surprised if there was a flashback that wasn't from Revenge of the sith.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on June 01, 2022, 05:18:39 PM
Am I the only one who (still) struggles with Ewan as Obi, I think he's such a bland actor - and his voice on this show is so dreary, talking slower and with a deeper voice is not how to add gravitas.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2022, 05:30:40 PM
Am I the only one who (still) struggles with Ewan as Obi, I think he's such a bland actor - and his voice on this show is so dreary, talking slower and with a deeper voice is not how to add gravitas.



Yes, you're the only one.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on June 01, 2022, 05:38:06 PM
Episode 3 was better, but the acting is still weak. And Vader with them cliche villain lines. He was cool though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: YtseJam on June 01, 2022, 05:46:48 PM
Am I the only one who (still) struggles with Ewan as Obi, I think he's such a bland actor - and his voice on this show is so dreary, talking slower and with a deeper voice is not how to add gravitas.

He was the only decent part of any of the prequels, although he did have some cringy parts. "You were the chosen one!" "I loved you!" etc  :eek
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on June 01, 2022, 06:06:24 PM
I mean, Hayden’s been on the interview circuit and everything. Got to believe he’s gonna feature sometime.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2022, 06:24:36 PM
Am I the only one who (still) struggles with Ewan as Obi, I think he's such a bland actor - and his voice on this show is so dreary, talking slower and with a deeper voice is not how to add gravitas.

Not struggling with Ewan as Obi……I’m struggling with how weak and scared he is considering the character he was built into in The Clone Wars show. Obi Wan was a flat out bad ass and top tier Jedi. I’m having a rough time watching him struggle like this.

Episode was decent…..not sure why Vader allowed Obi Wan to escape like that but that has to be the only explanation is that he allowed him to…..because…..just like Obi Wan…..Anakin was a dominant Jedi who wouldn’t have allowed some small fire to deter him. Their light saber battle was pretty tame but understandably given Kenobi’s reluctance to engage.

Third sister was a bit better this episode as well. I guess That incarnation of the Grand Inquisitor is indeed dead given Vader stated it’s a title….so….the Rebels version of The Grand Inquisitor is still in tact I guess?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: King Postwhore on June 01, 2022, 06:31:20 PM
It's funny you feel this way Gary.  The wife and I loved the spunk of little Leia.  It's foreshadowing who she becomes.  At least we felt this way.

She's still speaking like an adult and it's just weird.

My nephew says things that I would never think of at his age. Not surprised  these days but I understand.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2022, 06:44:14 PM
Curious to see if they bring Quinlan Vos to live action. Pretty cool ‘hippie’ Jedi from the animated show…….pretty powerful as well. Would be neat to see a live action version of him but I have a feeling his name drop was just a nugget or some fan service given there are only three episodes left.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 01, 2022, 07:09:41 PM
Yeah, Obi-Wan should have been dead there. I think they were trying to portray Vader's vicious side, like we didn't know that already.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on June 01, 2022, 07:15:28 PM
I'm not sure I get what tone this show is going for. I read somewhere before the start that it was too dark so they had to bring it down a notch. Now it feels like an odd mish-mash of cutesy spunky Leia with some dark brooding menacing bad guys. I think Mandalorian had the tone just right in both seasons, much better than Boba Fett for sure.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 01, 2022, 08:28:36 PM
Mediocre episode. Some very weak writing.

I have no clue how Reva got to the end of the tunnel before Leia. Some really weird decisions.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2022, 08:55:22 PM
Mediocre episode. Some very weak writing.

I have no clue how Reva got to the end of the tunnel before Leia. Some really weird decisions.

I’m trying really hard to be patient with the show….but with only three episodes to go it does seem like faizoff is onto something. There is no clear tone of the show. Should stuck with dark and brutal IMO….. it it seems like they’re trying to toe multiple lines here and it’s not clicking yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 01, 2022, 08:55:55 PM
Mediocre episode. Some very weak writing.

I have no clue how Reva got to the end of the tunnel before Leia. Some really weird decisions.

That was my exact thought too. And how does Vader wave away the fire one second, but literally less than 1 minute later, fire is a barrier that allows Obi-Wan to escape?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2022, 09:20:35 PM
Mediocre episode. Some very weak writing.

I have no clue how Reva got to the end of the tunnel before Leia. Some really weird decisions.

That was my exact thought too. And how does Vader wave away the fire one second, but literally less than 1 minute later, fire is a barrier that allows Obi-Wan to escape?

If Obi Wan was going to be reluctant to fight Vader…..then why abandon the tunnel to safety? Leave Leia with some random stranger? Just stay in the tunnel with them and ‘get to the chopper’

If Reva doesn’t Force grab Leia within two seconds of her running off it’ll be BS.




Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on June 02, 2022, 12:09:51 AM
Am I the only one who (still) struggles with Ewan as Obi, I think he's such a bland actor - and his voice on this show is so dreary, talking slower and with a deeper voice is not how to add gravitas.

He was the only decent part of any of the prequels, although he did have some cringy parts. "You were the chosen one!" "I loved you!" etc  :eek

When Liam and Ewan were on screen together it truly was like watching a master and apprentice,..........of acting!

I dunno I just find him bland, even in a great film like Trainspotting he's probably the weakest link.  And when he's cast in the starring role like The Island or Doctor Sleep he's just totally forgettable in them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Logain Ablar on June 02, 2022, 04:47:16 AM
Another mixed bag for me, though I did enjoy it better than the first two.

Cool to see Vader again, and the voice was spot on. That was one thing I noticed immediately in Rogue One - the voice sounded a lot older, which of course JEJ was at the time. Here, he sounds as powerful and menacing as the OT. Apparently they used the same AI techniques as they did with Mark Hamill's voice in Luke's scenes in TBOBF:

https://screenrant.com/who-voices-darth-vader-in-obi-wan-kenobi/

I'm not sure if it was 100% AI, or if they had James Earl Jones record the lines and digitally de-aged it afterwards.

My major gripe is, why is Obi Wan so weak? Why has he let himself go so much? You'd think that if his purpose in life is to safeguard Luke as he grows up, he'd need to keep those Jedi skills topped up. Instead, he seems a bit pathetic.

I'm still not convinced by the ambition and rivalry between the Inquisitors, but it's there, just not brilliantly done.

This is a small thing, but Vader just kinda turned up, walking down the street. It would have been nice to build the tension, but having some sort of dialog with the Inquisitors, and an establishing shot of his shuttle landing, and everyone around looking nervous, knowing that something's about to kick off..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on June 02, 2022, 06:20:23 AM
I'm really enjoying the show but it's a very different kind of enjoyment from the films. You can tell there's a budget and there's only so much they can do visually, musically, or otherwise. Even the story sometimes takes these little shortcuts where it kind of falls apart, but they had to get from A to B, so whatever. This is kind of what Star Wars is now, for better or for worse.

On the positive side, I love Obi-Wan and Leia (characters and actresses). I thought their moment in the truck was beautiful. It was cool seeing Vader again, who looked and sounded great. That red lightsaber is lit. And seeing Fortress Inquisitorius from Jedi Fallen Order was sweet. I'm excited to see where this goes!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 02, 2022, 06:58:10 AM
I'm still not convinced by the ambition and rivalry between the Inquisitors, but it's there, just not brilliantly done.

This is bugging me as well being that this 'rivalry' doesn't exist between them in any of the 'Rebels' content they're involved in. They're just Jedi Hunting assassins that serve Vader's will. I'm worried with the limited episodes left that there won't be much to the story of why the Third Sister believes she's owed something more or that she's better than the others. Especially since up to this point the writing is pretty bland.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 02, 2022, 08:00:02 AM
My major gripe is, why is Obi Wan so weak? Why has he let himself go so much? You'd think that if his purpose in life is to safeguard Luke as he grows up, he'd need to keep those Jedi skills topped up. Instead, he seems a bit pathetic.
I thought it was pretty clear that he has not accessed the Force at all in 10 years in order to not attract attention to himself. I've got to imagine even a powerful Jedi is rusty after 10 years.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 02, 2022, 08:02:47 AM
My major gripe is, why is Obi Wan so weak? Why has he let himself go so much? You'd think that if his purpose in life is to safeguard Luke as he grows up, he'd need to keep those Jedi skills topped up. Instead, he seems a bit pathetic.
I thought it was pretty clear that he has not accessed the Force at all in 10 years in order to not attract attention to himself. I've got to imagine even a powerful Jedi is rusty after 10 years.

That's another issue of inconsistent writing to me. Or even contradictory writing.

How can Obi Wan expect to train Luke if he has mostly forgotten how to be a Jedi and use the force?

Want to have Obi Wan want to train Luke? Cool, but he has to be ready and able.
Want to have Obi Wan be so weak because he has not used the force in 10 years to avoid being detected? Cool, but don't try to train Luke.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on June 02, 2022, 08:12:52 AM
And we’re at the point where we’re picking on a 5-year old for their acting?  :facepalm:

I don't think it's picking on the 5 year old actress. I think it's picking on Disney for the writing/directing and maybe even casting an actress that can't convey it all in a convincing manner.


That's really been my largest issue with Disney is some of their casting choices. Casting is HUGE and just because the actor/actress may be a big name doesn't mean they should get the part. I'd be fine with all unknowns if it meant the roles were cast and conveyed correctly.


I haven't seen this yet, though this thread is making me want to watch it (that, and playing Star Wars Battlefront on my PS4) but let me say that I'm cringing even now reading some of the comments about the kid actor(s). I HATE kids in media; they either write them to be sniveling little wimps ("Mommy, mommy, I'm so scared!") or precocious assholes well beyond their years.  Forget waterboarding or bamboo under the finger nails; my worst idea of torture is watching something like Young Sheldon.   I know I'm talking about a kid, but that show makes me want to break the law.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 02, 2022, 08:32:46 AM
For me, I think part of the problem with Leia (though I do genuinely enjoy her character for the most part) is that she looks two or three years younger than she's supposed to be. I don't think she looks anywhere close to 10. While her vocabulary is too high for a 10 year old, I can buy it for someone in her situation with education and needing to present herself properly in political situations. But for a 7 or 8 year (which is how old she looks) it's kind of absurd.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 02, 2022, 08:57:53 AM
How can Obi Wan expect to train Luke if he has mostly forgotten how to be a Jedi and use the force?

I'm assuming that this show/these events will convince him to get back in touch with the Force and stay on top of it because of what we see in Rebels and how quickly he dispenses of a still powerful Maul when confronted by him on Tatooine.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 02, 2022, 09:01:36 AM
How can Obi Wan expect to train Luke if he has mostly forgotten how to be a Jedi and use the force?

I'm assuming that this show/these events will convince him to get back in touch with the Force and stay on top of it because of what we see in Rebels and how quickly he dispenses of a still powerful Maul when confronted by him on Tatooine.

For sure. And he's clearly very comfortable with the force in A New Hope.

But, at least when this began Obi Wan was BOTH out of touch with the force AND wanting to train Luke like RIGHT THEN. It's just contradictory writing.

This whole show has had a decent amount of that kind of writing. Though it has also had fantastic moments that I really enjoy. And thankfully Ewan is great, so I can enjoy this show, but the last episode really took me out of it at times with the writing decisions.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 02, 2022, 09:09:19 AM
This whole show has had a decent amount of that kind of writing. Though it has also had fantastic moments that I really enjoy. And thankfully Ewan is great, so I can enjoy this show, but the last episode really took me out of it at times with the writing decisions.

Right there with ya. I'm actually enjoying it despite my apparent nit picking.....as you point out.....the writing has been done in such a way that it just leaves it open to criticism.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on June 02, 2022, 09:23:29 AM
Conjecture:  Third Sister found the tunnel and surmised that it led to the spaceport.  She then went out and took a much faster surface route to get there ahead of them, found where the tunnel came out, and waited.  They didn't show her doing that because it would've spoiled the surprise.

Carrie Fisher was a very petite woman (in pictures it's almost comical how small she is compared to the rest of the cast), so it makes sense that as a child, she was also very small for her age.  I have no problem with the actress being ten years old but looking like she's seven or eight.  And she's lived a life of privilege, presumably with private teachers and surrounded by the upper class.  Mouthy, precocious kids bug the hell out of me, too, but the characterization fits.  Princess Leia was intelligent, mouthy and sharp-witted as an adult; this is her as a kid.  I buy it, even if I want to smack her in the face, too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 02, 2022, 09:25:54 AM
I'm still not convinced by the ambition and rivalry between the Inquisitors, but it's there, just not brilliantly done.

This is bugging me as well being that this 'rivalry' doesn't exist between them in any of the 'Rebels' content they're involved in. They're just Jedi Hunting assassins that serve Vader's will.

Maybe this is Inquisitors 1.0?  And Rebels-era Inquisitors have this aspect beaten out of them?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 02, 2022, 09:26:00 AM
My major gripe is, why is Obi Wan so weak? Why has he let himself go so much? You'd think that if his purpose in life is to safeguard Luke as he grows up, he'd need to keep those Jedi skills topped up. Instead, he seems a bit pathetic.
I thought it was pretty clear that he has not accessed the Force at all in 10 years in order to not attract attention to himself. I've got to imagine even a powerful Jedi is rusty after 10 years.

And the fact that he's resorted to using a pistol .... so uncivilized!

P.S. ... Bill, that's where the comment comes from.  Obi-Wan after he kills Greivous in Ep3
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 02, 2022, 09:26:06 AM
My major gripe is, why is Obi Wan so weak? Why has he let himself go so much? You'd think that if his purpose in life is to safeguard Luke as he grows up, he'd need to keep those Jedi skills topped up. Instead, he seems a bit pathetic.
I thought it was pretty clear that he has not accessed the Force at all in 10 years in order to not attract attention to himself. I've got to imagine even a powerful Jedi is rusty after 10 years.

That's another issue of inconsistent writing to me. Or even contradictory writing.

How can Obi Wan expect to train Luke if he has mostly forgotten how to be a Jedi and use the force?

Want to have Obi Wan want to train Luke? Cool, but he has to be ready and able.
Want to have Obi Wan be so weak because he has not used the force in 10 years to avoid being detected? Cool, but don't try to train Luke.

I'm not bothered by this.  The best teachers/coaches usually aren't in the prime of their ability anymore.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 02, 2022, 09:26:17 AM
This whole show has had a decent amount of that kind of writing. Though it has also had fantastic moments that I really enjoy. And thankfully Ewan is great, so I can enjoy this show, but the last episode really took me out of it at times with the writing decisions.

Right there with ya. I'm actually enjoying it despite my apparent nit picking.....as you point out.....the writing has been done in such a way that it just leaves it open to criticism.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 02, 2022, 09:26:32 AM
Conjecture:  Third Sister found the tunnel and surmised that it led to the spaceport.  She then went out and took a much faster surface route to get there ahead of them, found where the tunnel came out, and waited.  They didn't show her doing that because it would've spoiled the surprise.

Carrie Fisher was a very petite woman (in pictures it's almost comical how small she is compared to the rest of the cast), so it makes sense that as a child, she was also very small for her age.  I have no problem with the actress being ten years old but looking like she's seven or eight.  And she's lived a life of privilege, presumably with private teachers and surrounded by the upper class.  Mouthy, precocious kids bug the hell out of me, too, but the characterization fits.  Princess Leia was intelligent, mouthy and sharp-witted as an adult; this is her as a kid.  I buy it, even if I want to smack her in the face, too.

I'm with ya 100% on all counts, Bob.

Sorry for the quint posting!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 02, 2022, 09:48:33 AM
Carrie Fisher was a very petite woman (in pictures it's almost comical how small she is compared to the rest of the cast), so it makes sense that as a child, she was also very small for her age. 
That's a good point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on June 02, 2022, 09:49:47 AM
I liked Leia, and also have enjoyed the show generally (from the first two episodes). The forest chase scene was definitely goofy and poorly staged, but that doesn't ruin the show. In general I think people tend to hold past Star Wars films to a sort of imaginary high standard that they never actually reached; they're just fun space stories.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 02, 2022, 09:52:03 AM
I'm still not convinced by the ambition and rivalry between the Inquisitors, but it's there, just not brilliantly done.

This is bugging me as well being that this 'rivalry' doesn't exist between them in any of the 'Rebels' content they're involved in. They're just Jedi Hunting assassins that serve Vader's will.

Maybe this is Inquisitors 1.0?  And Rebels-era Inquisitors have this aspect beaten out of them?

That could be the case. However, the Fifth brother and other Sister are in Rebels and they've already shown their allegiance to chain of command so to speak in this show. Reva is the outlier here.   

I do recall the Grand Inquisitor having a certain 'bravado' about himself where he clearly was at the top of the hierarchy and felt pretty dang good about his position. He never challenged Vader by any means but he was definitely at the top of the food chain so to speak and always used his interactions with Canan and Ezra to point out just how powerful he was....because well....he was pretty darn powerful.  I'm still wondering if on the show he's indeed dead.....and it wouldn't surprise me if he's the one who ultimately kills Reva....assuming she dies. I'd think she has to given her absence from Rebels. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 02, 2022, 09:56:08 AM
I liked Leia, and also have enjoyed the show generally (from the first two episodes). The forest chase scene was definitely goofy and poorly staged, but that doesn't ruin the show. In general I think people tend to hold past Star Wars films to a sort of imaginary high standard that they never actually reached; they're just fun space stories.

While this is true....where my criticism lies is kind of the criticism I had/have with the sequel trilogy. Disney has an infinite amount of money, material and talent (actors/writers etc etc) to provide top tier content and they routinely fail to do so. The Mandalorian has been a huge hit because they've managed to utilize all their resources there in a great way. These other shows have been clunky to say the least and IMO there's no excuse for it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on June 02, 2022, 10:18:19 AM
I like the Mandalorian a lot, but I don't see it as being that different. It's got plenty of corny writing, shaky acting, and generally goofy stuff. It's still a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on June 02, 2022, 10:38:56 AM
I like the Mandalorian a lot, but I don't see it as being that different. It's got plenty of corny writing, shaky acting, and generally goofy stuff. It's still a lot of fun.

Even with all those aspects of it, the Mandalorian is at least consistent in tone and story. Boba Fett and Kenobi so far exaggerate the goofiness at times and doesn't really flow well together.  I can look past the corny acting and cheesiness of it all, but it also has to be done right.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 02, 2022, 11:26:23 AM
I like the Mandalorian a lot, but I don't see it as being that different. It's got plenty of corny writing, shaky acting, and generally goofy stuff. It's still a lot of fun.
I think one of the differences is that The Mandalorian kind of has stand-alone episodes with one little mini-adventure per episode, while driving an overall plot over the coarse of the season. Obi-Wan and Boba Fett were both one plot over the coarse of several episodes (apart from the Boba Fett episode that was an actually a Mandalorian episode). There's also not 40+ years worth of lore about Din Djarin to have to worry about, where there is for Obi Wan and Boba Fett. This just shows me even more than I already knew that Lucasfilm should focus on new characters in unique locations rather than existing characters in well known locations for future projects.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on June 02, 2022, 11:49:41 AM
So let's see, in Star Wars Vader said to Kenobi "when last we met I was the learner and you the master" or something similar. Sure didn't look that way from this last episode. Must be at last one more confrontation coming where Kenobi gets the better of him again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 02, 2022, 11:53:07 AM
Must be at last one more confrontation coming where Kenobi gets the better of him again.

I'm leaning towards this as well. I mean, he can cut off any of his limbs again with no real damage to Vader....that'd be neat to see.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on June 02, 2022, 01:19:00 PM
I liked Leia, and also have enjoyed the show generally (from the first two episodes). The forest chase scene was definitely goofy and poorly staged, but that doesn't ruin the show. In general I think people tend to hold past Star Wars films to a sort of imaginary high standard that they never actually reached; they're just fun space stories.

While this is true....where my criticism lies is kind of the criticism I had/have with the sequel trilogy. Disney has an infinite amount of money, material and talent (actors/writers etc etc) to provide top tier content and they routinely fail to do so. The Mandalorian has been a huge hit because they've managed to utilize all their resources there in a great way. These other shows have been clunky to say the least and IMO there's no excuse for it.

I think there's something to this.  I'm generally rather lenient with companies, because I know there are artists in there that still care (see Marvel; what they did with the MCU is nothing short of breathtaking if you really think about it).   But I think here it's true.  The "Disney Model" works with animation; put out a story, some variation on the Princess, the Prince and the bad guy, create the dolls, hire Phil to write the songs, build the ride, and move on to the next one. There's nothing earthshaking about the story in Moana, as good as that movie is (and it is; and yes, I know Phil Collins didn't do the music to that, though Mark Mancina did).   Star Wars LENDS itself to those things, but it has - or requires - a structural continuity that doesn't just grow on trees.   

I can tolerate the prequels, messy though they are, because they have heart.  If it wasn't for The Mandalorian, I think I would have lost all interest in the franchise at this point.  I really liked, not loved, The Force Awakens, but it's been down hill since, and there's no reason for that.  Put someone like Jon Favreau, whose love for the franchise oozes from every scene in The Mandalorian, in charge and let him run with it.  Put in the effort; your toy revenue will still be there!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 02, 2022, 01:23:58 PM
Put someone like Jon Favreau, whose love for the franchise oozes from every scene in The Mandalorian, in charge and let him run with it.  Put in the effort; your toy revenue will still be there!

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the upcoming 'Ahsoka' series will be on par with if not better than 'Madalorian' because of who's writing it as well. Dave Filoni is first and foremost a SW fan and encyclopedia.....so I think we're going to see a more coherent and interesting story driven by good writing than we're seeing with this Kenobi series. The bones are there but the meat is below expectations for me thus far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on June 02, 2022, 01:28:48 PM
Put someone like Jon Favreau, whose love for the franchise oozes from every scene in The Mandalorian, in charge and let him run with it.  Put in the effort; your toy revenue will still be there!

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the upcoming 'Ahsoka' series will be on par with if not better than 'Madalorian' because of who's writing it as well. Dave Filoni is first and foremost a SW fan and encyclopedia.....so I think we're going to see a more coherent and interesting story driven by good writing than we're seeing with this Kenobi series. The bones are there but the meat is below expectations for me thus far.

Yeah, you can substitute Filoni in for Favreau; he takes it seriously as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on June 02, 2022, 01:31:19 PM
So let's see, in Star Wars Vader said to Kenobi "when last we met I was the learner and you the master" or something similar. Sure didn't look that way from this last episode. Must be at last one more confrontation coming where Kenobi gets the better of him again.

Quote
Vader - I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again at last. The circle is complete. When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master.
Kenobi - Only a master of evil, Darth.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 02, 2022, 01:32:45 PM
Let's not forget that Favreau and Filoni were involved with the Book of Boba Fett and that was a bit of a dud. While I think those guys "get" Star Wars more than almost anyone else, they're not infallible.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on June 02, 2022, 02:18:07 PM
Let's not forget that Favreau and Filoni were involved with the Book of Boba Fett and that was a bit of a dud. While I think those guys "get" Star Wars more than almost anyone else, they're not infallible.

True, Favreau did write TBOBF, but the show also had 5 different directors over the course of its 7 episodes, so that could also speak to the show's rather inconsistent tone and feel.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on June 02, 2022, 02:47:25 PM
So let's see, in Star Wars Vader said to Kenobi "when last we met I was the learner and you the master" or something similar. Sure didn't look that way from this last episode. Must be at last one more confrontation coming where Kenobi gets the better of him again.

Quote
Vader - I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again at last. The circle is complete. When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master.
Kenobi - Only a master of evil, Darth.

-Marc.

Thanks! Photographic memory, have you? - Yoda
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on June 02, 2022, 03:30:08 PM
So let's see, in Star Wars Vader said to Kenobi "when last we met I was the learner and you the master" or something similar. Sure didn't look that way from this last episode. Must be at last one more confrontation coming where Kenobi gets the better of him again.

Quote
Vader - I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again at last. The circle is complete. When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master.
Kenobi - Only a master of evil, Darth.

-Marc.

Thanks! Photographic memory, have you? - Yoda

 :lol Hardly, but when the mind forgets, Google remembers.

It's interesting that a lot of people all around the internet seem to be misquoting Vader's line to Obi-Wan - they think he says "When we last fought/met" but him actually saying "when I left you" still leaves things open for interpretation at the end of this series. Remember, Obi-Wan Kenobi (the series) takes place 8-9 years before A New Hope, which can be a long time, especially for Obi-Wan.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Logain Ablar on June 03, 2022, 10:08:44 AM
Must be at last one more confrontation coming where Kenobi gets the better of him again.

I'm leaning towards this as well. I mean, he can cut off any of his limbs again with no real damage to Vader....that'd be neat to see.

Yes, I agree. Surely Obi Wan has to give a better account of himself than what we saw in episode 3.

I wonder if he’ll make contact with Qui Gon and get himself back in the game? Seeing a force ghost Qui Gon could be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 03, 2022, 10:25:39 AM
Must be at last one more confrontation coming where Kenobi gets the better of him again.

I'm leaning towards this as well. I mean, he can cut off any of his limbs again with no real damage to Vader....that'd be neat to see.

Yes, I agree. Surely Obi Wan has to give a better account of himself than what we saw in episode 3.

I wonder if he’ll make contact with Qui Gon and get himself back in the game? Seeing a force ghost Qui Gon could be pretty cool.
Qui Gon has to show up, right? Why else would he be calling to him?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 03, 2022, 10:28:03 AM
Must be at last one more confrontation coming where Kenobi gets the better of him again.

I'm leaning towards this as well. I mean, he can cut off any of his limbs again with no real damage to Vader....that'd be neat to see.

Yes, I agree. Surely Obi Wan has to give a better account of himself than what we saw in episode 3.

I wonder if he’ll make contact with Qui Gon and get himself back in the game? Seeing a force ghost Qui Gon could be pretty cool.

With the subtle moments of him reaching out and failing I think they're setting up an ultimate scenario where he does succeed in contacting him. Even if it's in voice contact only....judging from Neeson's comment's I don't  think he'd appear onscreen unless it's a movie. OR his comments were just a ruse.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 03, 2022, 09:34:20 PM
I think some of this show is good fun, but it has all been a bit ham fisted. Will probably keep watching but the wife has already lost interest so we’ll see if we make it to the end.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on June 04, 2022, 10:41:01 PM
Don't think I have seen anyone mention this, but when Obi-wan arrives at the place where Leia is being held there was a beggar that he gave some coin to. I remember on first watch I was looking really hard at the guy because it looked like Boba Fett. Turns out, it was the guy that plays Boba but he wasn't Boba. Rumors are swirling now that he might have been Rex or some other clone. I really wonder if something will come out of that cameo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on June 04, 2022, 10:53:19 PM
Don't think I have seen anyone mention this, but when Obi-wan arrives at the place where Leia is being held there was a beggar that he gave some coin to. I remember on first watch I was looking really hard at the guy because it looked like Boba Fett. Turns out, it was the guy that plays Boba but he wasn't Boba. Rumors are swirling now that he might have been Rex or some other clone. I really wonder if something will come out of that cameo.

I did notice that, I assumed it's one of the clone storm trooper from the clone wars gone on hard times hence being on the planet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 04, 2022, 10:58:22 PM
Don't think I have seen anyone mention this, but when Obi-wan arrives at the place where Leia is being held there was a beggar that he gave some coin to. I remember on first watch I was looking really hard at the guy because it looked like Boba Fett. Turns out, it was the guy that plays Boba but he wasn't Boba. Rumors are swirling now that he might have been Rex or some other clone. I really wonder if something will come out of that cameo.

I did notice that, I assumed it's one of the clone storm trooper from the clone wars gone on hard times hence being on the planet.

Yeah, I think it was just a fun cameo and nod to that bit of Star Wars lore and probably not anything that will turn into a story line.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 04, 2022, 11:32:51 PM
Don't think I have seen anyone mention this, but when Obi-wan arrives at the place where Leia is being held there was a beggar that he gave some coin to. I remember on first watch I was looking really hard at the guy because it looked like Boba Fett. Turns out, it was the guy that plays Boba but he wasn't Boba. Rumors are swirling now that he might have been Rex or some other clone. I really wonder if something will come out of that cameo.

I did notice that, I assumed it's one of the clone storm trooper from the clone wars gone on hard times hence being on the planet.

Yeah, I think it was just a fun cameo and nod to that bit of Star Wars lore and probably not anything that will turn into a story line.

He was in the 501st Legion armor……which…..was the Legion that accompanied Anakin to the Jedi temple for order 66 and a Legion that Kenobi fought with a lot in the animated show.

I think they were just trying to show how the original clones were abandoned and forgotten about and replaced by the storm troopers. Obi Wan was probably startled because the last time he saw a clone trooper they were executing all the Jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on June 05, 2022, 10:32:53 AM
Yeah, that was an interesting scene.  I could tell that I was maybe supposed to recognize the guy, or at least understand the significance of the look that Obi-Wan gave him, but I didn't really understand it until I read about it elsewhere.  It's Temuera Morrison, so the vet is a former clone trooper; Jango Fett was the basis for all the clones.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 06, 2022, 11:11:51 AM
Watched the first 3 episodes. 

I don't know.  Fun, I guess, but not great, and certainly unnecessary.

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but both Star Wars and Star Trek are pretty immersed in the past, with their shows being "prequels".  With all due respect to the level of talent involved, I largely do not give a shit.  Please tell me what happens NEXT, and stop telling me side chapters to things that already happened.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 06, 2022, 12:25:12 PM
  Please tell me what happens NEXT, and stop telling me side chapters to things that already happened.

For me it's not so much as 'next'....although that'd be more than welcome.....I just want something different. Both franchises are hooked on their cash cows so to speak and it's hindering the story they can tell. Even with Kenobi.....they have to color within the lines and are restrained in storytelling.

Gimme a cool Jedi/Sith etc etc story set a couple hundred/thousand years earlier OR later.....use that 'world' as the backbone but lets do something different.

I'm looking forward to the Ahsoka series not only due to me really liking that character but also because it will deal largely with 'new' characters and storylines that aren't constrained by the OT or prequels. There will be some adherence to the animated show 'Rebels' but in large part it's an open canvass.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 06, 2022, 12:26:51 PM
Yeah.. We got a vast universe of possibilities with a kick ass framework, and they keep a laser focus on one family in a hundred year span.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 06, 2022, 12:37:55 PM
Completely agree with you all. It's time to move out of the existing timelines either before or later.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 06, 2022, 12:55:18 PM
BUT....if they're going to take that direction and start 'fresh' so to speak......spend the $$$ that is needed and hire a team of writers/developers that can handle that task. Have a clear cut vision from the start on the whole thing. If they pull another sequel trilogy debacle where it was fly by the seat of your pants and just throw crap at the wall then that'll be a major bummer. No excuse not to be able to come up with something pretty spectacular given the 'vast universe' as RJ mentioned they have to pull from.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 06, 2022, 04:14:03 PM
BUT....if they're going to take that direction and start 'fresh' so to speak......spend the $$$ that is needed and hire a team of writers/developers that can handle that task. Have a clear cut vision from the start on the whole thing. If they pull another sequel trilogy debacle where it was fly by the seat of your pants and just throw crap at the wall then that'll be a major bummer. No excuse not to be able to come up with something pretty spectacular given the 'vast universe' as RJ mentioned they have to pull from.

Exactly...they really just need to take a page from the MCU, who did such an admirable job of world building in the infinity saga, pulling material from the past and still creating something new out of it. The Star Wars universe has how many books, comics, fan fiction, etc tied to it? And what percentage do you think is better than the bed shitting that was the sequels? Mandalorian was a decent go, it was a fairly original work, with mostly new characters, and honestly they could've done without a single fan service character and still been a tremendous success solely on the back of Mando and Grogu.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on June 07, 2022, 06:19:21 AM
BUT....if they're going to take that direction and start 'fresh' so to speak......spend the $$$ that is needed and hire a team of writers/developers that can handle that task. Have a clear cut vision from the start on the whole thing. If they pull another sequel trilogy debacle where it was fly by the seat of your pants and just throw crap at the wall then that'll be a major bummer. No excuse not to be able to come up with something pretty spectacular given the 'vast universe' as RJ mentioned they have to pull from.

Exactly...they really just need to take a page from the MCU, who did such an admirable job of world building in the infinity saga, pulling material from the past and still creating something new out of it. The Star Wars universe has how many books, comics, fan fiction, etc tied to it? And what percentage do you think is better than the bed shitting that was the sequels? Mandalorian was a decent go, it was a fairly original work, with mostly new characters, and honestly they could've done without a single fan service character and still been a tremendous success solely on the back of Mando and Grogu.

I agree with this (though I also think that Mando had just the right amount of fan service.  I'm not a die-hard, I don't know all the side-bar stories, and so it was just enough of a hook to make it familiar and give it "heft").
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 07, 2022, 07:51:45 AM
BUT....if they're going to take that direction and start 'fresh' so to speak......spend the $$$ that is needed and hire a team of writers/developers that can handle that task. Have a clear cut vision from the start on the whole thing. If they pull another sequel trilogy debacle where it was fly by the seat of your pants and just throw crap at the wall then that'll be a major bummer. No excuse not to be able to come up with something pretty spectacular given the 'vast universe' as RJ mentioned they have to pull from.

Exactly...they really just need to take a page from the MCU, who did such an admirable job of world building in the infinity saga, pulling material from the past and still creating something new out of it. The Star Wars universe has how many books, comics, fan fiction, etc tied to it? And what percentage do you think is better than the bed shitting that was the sequels? Mandalorian was a decent go, it was a fairly original work, with mostly new characters, and honestly they could've done without a single fan service character and still been a tremendous success solely on the back of Mando and Grogu.

I agree with this (though I also think that Mando had just the right amount of fan service.  I'm not a die-hard, I don't know all the side-bar stories, and so it was just enough of a hook to make it familiar and give it "heft").
My only wish for Mando is that they left Luke out of it. Otherwise I agree the amount of fan service was about right.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 07, 2022, 08:32:55 AM
My only wish for Mando is that they left Luke out of it. Otherwise I agree the amount of fan service was about right.

Nah....it makes perfect sense for the story. He's the most powerful Jedi alive at that time and would have been the one to answer 'the call' from Grogu. I think it fits beautifully and his entrance into the show might be the top SW moment of all time. I get chills every time I watch it....from the soundtrack to the action to the suspense of "is it Luke" even though you know it's him the whole time....so well done and perfect for the story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 07, 2022, 08:50:49 AM
Yeah, I can get on board with that. Ahsoka was necessary to promote her series. Boba..same reasons, though I'm more grateful it gave a way to bring in Fennec (sigh....)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 07, 2022, 08:55:31 AM
My only wish for Mando is that they left Luke out of it. Otherwise I agree the amount of fan service was about right.

Nah....it makes perfect sense for the story. He's the most powerful Jedi alive at that time and would have been the one to answer 'the call' from Grogu. I think it fits beautifully and his entrance into the show might be the top SW moment of all time. I get chills every time I watch it....from the soundtrack to the action to the suspense of "is it Luke" even though you know it's him the whole time....so well done and perfect for the story.
It does make sense for the story. And having Luke show up at the end of Season 2 was one of the best Star Wars moments ever. So maybe I take back my statement. I just hope he doesn't show up too often.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 07, 2022, 08:57:36 AM
Ahsoka was necessary to promote her series.

She made sense as well appearing just given the timeline and 'where' her character is/was at as far as storyline.

I'm hopeful that with the less restrictive backstory and 'lore' that her character and the characters from Rebels that have been confirmed to be in the series and rumored to be in there that we see some good storytelling. I'm hopeful that with Filoni essentially writing this show we will get some of the best SW's content and I'm trying to curb my expectations so I won't be disappointed if the show doesn't live up to them. Rebels IMO was really well done and I hope that momentum continues with Ahsoka's series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 07, 2022, 08:59:26 AM
It does make sense for the story. And having Luke show up at the end of Season 2 was one of the best Star Wars moments ever. So maybe I take back my statement. I just hope he doesn't show up too often.

Exactly. You can't get into a habit of using Luke just to use him. We got the follow up to him taking Grogu to train him and that essentially resolved itself....I hope they don't continue to sprinkle him in just to sprinkle him in. I'm good with it if it fits the story....which, it has up to this point....but....don't overdo it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on June 07, 2022, 11:05:31 AM
I thought the recent Obi episode was solid, much better than the first 2.  Hopefully the back half of the series keeps the momentum going.

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but both Star Wars and Star Trek are pretty immersed in the past, with their shows being "prequels".  With all due respect to the level of talent involved, I largely do not give a shit.  Please tell me what happens NEXT, and stop telling me side chapters to things that already happened.

I think this is why I'm not immediately loving the Obi series.  We KNOW him and Leah are going to survive this storyline so some of that drama is just immediately lost.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 07, 2022, 11:59:22 AM
Ahsoka was necessary to promote her series.

She made sense as well appearing just given the timeline and 'where' her character is/was at as far as storyline.

I'm hopeful that with the less restrictive backstory and 'lore' that her character and the characters from Rebels that have been confirmed to be in the series and rumored to be in there that we see some good storytelling. I'm hopeful that with Filoni essentially writing this show we will get some of the best SW's content and I'm trying to curb my expectations so I won't be disappointed if the show doesn't live up to them. Rebels IMO was really well done and I hope that momentum continues with Ahsoka's series.

Fortunately I've watched scarce nits and pieces of the animated series, so I have no preconceptions or expectations from them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 07, 2022, 01:36:28 PM
Ahsoka was necessary to promote her series.

She made sense as well appearing just given the timeline and 'where' her character is/was at as far as storyline.

I'm hopeful that with the less restrictive backstory and 'lore' that her character and the characters from Rebels that have been confirmed to be in the series and rumored to be in there that we see some good storytelling. I'm hopeful that with Filoni essentially writing this show we will get some of the best SW's content and I'm trying to curb my expectations so I won't be disappointed if the show doesn't live up to them. Rebels IMO was really well done and I hope that momentum continues with Ahsoka's series.

Fortunately I've watched scarce nits and pieces of the animated series, so I have no preconceptions or expectations from them.

In regards to the Ahsoka series....I'd think some sort of Youtube Recap of 'Rebels' would give you all the pertinent information you'd need to understand 'who' the characters are that are being introduced and 'why' they're doing what they're doing. Just from the characters confirmed.....Thrawn and Sabine.....and heavily rumored due to casting calls....Ezra.....it's a pretty safe bet that this show is more or less going to be a continuation of Rebels and where that story left off.


Although with 'only' 4 Seasons (75) episodes @ 22 minutes each....so, 28ish hours of content......I'd recommend hammering that series out. It's a fun one with little 'down' time.

 Whereas Clone Wars has 7 seasons (133) episodes....of which, much of the early seasons are very hit or miss. The battle of Geonosis is pretty cool....and it really starts to find footing in S3. But it's SO much to take in.....but worth it IMO. It paints a true and full picture of Anakin and Obi Wan....way more than you can glean from the limited Sequel series. And of course it details Ahsoka's journey.

  AND the last four episodes of that series "Old Friends Not Forgotten", "The Phantom Apprentice", "Shattered" and "Victory and Death" (whose intention was to be viewed as one 'film' so to speak) is IMO some of if not the best SW output to date. From the score to the story, the action....everything....it is incredible.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 07, 2022, 02:43:14 PM
I did watch the last season of Clone Wars... On your recommendation I do believe. And yes, it was outstanding, that closing moment with Ahsoka and the helmets is just chilling, I even looked for high end artwork of that for my kid for Xmas. I'll probably do a few of the recaps on rebels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 07, 2022, 02:59:19 PM
I did watch the last season of Clone Wars... On your recommendation I do believe. And yes, it was outstanding, that closing moment with Ahsoka and the helmets is just chilling, I even looked for high end artwork of that for my kid for Xmas. I'll probably do a few of the recaps on rebels.

I now recall speaking to you about that.....


(https://i.imgur.com/Oax706s.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 07, 2022, 07:19:49 PM
Such a great scene.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 08, 2022, 06:04:29 AM
I liked Episode 4 quite a bit. Short and sweet without any filler or slow spots like the other episodes. We see Obi Wan's abilities re-awakening. The Empire is really inept at keep prisoners locked up in highly fortified bases.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on June 08, 2022, 09:21:48 AM
I'll watch the new episode tonight, but my twitter feed is filled with negative headlines for the episode. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 08, 2022, 10:07:52 AM
I'll watch the new episode tonight, but my twitter feed is filled with negative headlines for the episode. 
I'm curious why. I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on June 08, 2022, 10:23:41 AM
I'll watch the new episode tonight, but my twitter feed is filled with negative headlines for the episode. 
I'm curious why. I enjoyed it.

I didn't read to not be spoiled.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on June 08, 2022, 02:25:25 PM
Yeah that was awful. 
The ineptitude of the rescue only worked because the ineptitude of the villains was even worse.  Or just lazy writing really across the board.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on June 08, 2022, 02:51:16 PM
Yeah that was awful. 
The ineptitude of the rescue only worked because the ineptitude of the villains was even worse.  Or just lazy writing really across the board.
Did you not notice what Third Sister explains to Vader at the end and therefore wholly miss the point of that "ineptitude"?

Enjoying the show a lot so far. Not quite Mandalorian level but generally among the better Star Wars output.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on June 08, 2022, 03:46:14 PM
Yeah that was awful. 
The ineptitude of the rescue only worked because the ineptitude of the villains was even worse.  Or just lazy writing really across the board.
Did you not notice what Third Sister explains to Vader at the end and therefore wholly miss the point of that "ineptitude"?


Yeah.  But that makes no sense unless you disregard everything that happened in the rest of the episode before that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on June 08, 2022, 04:11:37 PM
Yeah that was awful. 
The ineptitude of the rescue only worked because the ineptitude of the villains was even worse.  Or just lazy writing really across the board.
Did you not notice what Third Sister explains to Vader at the end and therefore wholly miss the point of that "ineptitude"?


Yeah.  But that makes no sense unless you disregard everything that happened in the rest of the episode before that.
I didn't notice any ineptitude earlier in the episode that was any different to the general incompetence of villains that has been a mainstay of Star Wars since A New Hope.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on June 08, 2022, 05:09:43 PM
Yeah that was awful. 
The ineptitude of the rescue only worked because the ineptitude of the villains was even worse.  Or just lazy writing really across the board.
Did you not notice what Third Sister explains to Vader at the end and therefore wholly miss the point of that "ineptitude"?


Yeah.  But that makes no sense unless you disregard everything that happened in the rest of the episode before that.
I didn't notice any ineptitude earlier in the episode that was any different to the general incompetence of villains that has been a mainstay of Star Wars since A New Hope.

That's fair enough.  I suppose the incompetence of the villains is now cannon,  which is a shame as any bumbling hero can infiltrate a lair without need of a plan, which kindoff makes watching it so frustrating!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on June 08, 2022, 05:50:02 PM
They seemed to forget that Obi wan was burned and could "barely walk". He frequently used his right arm and showed no signs of injury or pain.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on June 08, 2022, 05:59:13 PM
They seemed to forget that Obi wan was burned and could "barely walk". He frequently used his right arm and showed no signs of injury or pain.

He used the force!

(https://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/THATS-NOT-HOW-THE-FORCE-WORKS.gif)

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on June 08, 2022, 06:15:24 PM
I know everything always has to be more and more dark and edgy and shocking and nihilistic and blah blah but in the Star Wars universe I don’t even want the pretense of someone torturing a child. It’s too much and not necessary. This isn’t some R or NC-17 rated property where such things would be par for the course. But I’m not the target audience . . .
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on June 08, 2022, 07:14:26 PM
I was thinking that torturing a little girl is pretty effin' low, even for the empire, then I remembered Vader snapping that kid's neck as he casually walked up the street.  This is some dark shit, really.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on June 08, 2022, 07:26:21 PM
Vader killed younglings. I'm sure he has no issue torturing them as well. Same with the inquisitors.

Speaking of, at this point, Reva has go away heat. I'm sorry, maybe the actress is good in other things, but here she's terrible.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on June 08, 2022, 08:56:34 PM
Yeah, Vader killed the younglings off-screen.  We saw him enter the room, then it cut away, and next thing we know Padme is like "You killed... younglings?"

We watched that kid's neck jerk sideways and heard the snap.  That's graphic on a level I wasn't expecting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on June 09, 2022, 04:07:13 AM
Bit late to this, but:

It's funny you feel this way Gary.  The wife and I loved the spunk of little Leia.  It's foreshadowing who she becomes.  At least we felt this way.

She's still speaking like an adult and it's just weird.
She's 10 years old, not a small infant. And not just that, but a 10-year-old brought up with wealth and privilege and education. Complaints about her dialogue seem to come from a position that all children are the same and speak in the same way, which is nonsense.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 09, 2022, 05:02:21 AM
Not a great episode, but not the worst thing the Star Wars TV shows have ever put out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 09, 2022, 06:01:20 AM
Not a great episode, but not the worst thing the Star Wars TV shows have ever put out.

Yeah. It wasn’t bad. I think where I fall on this series is kind of where I fall on the prequel movies. No excuse for this to have not been knocked out of the park. Too much money and too much talent out there for just an average…..Ho hum effort like this.

There have been some cool moments but all in all to this point it’s just been “ehhh, it’s ok” for me. Maybe my expectations were too high? I don’t know. But, I can see why there were reshoots now and honestly they probably should have started from scratch.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on June 09, 2022, 06:04:47 AM
I've got to the point now where I just presume Stormtroopers can't see out of there helmet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 09, 2022, 06:07:14 AM
No excuse for this to have not been knocked out of the park. Too much money and too much talent out there for just an average…..Ho hum effort like this.
I get what you're saying here, but I think it's more difficult to make a fantastic movie or show than we think. How many huge blockbusters that on paper sounded awesome turned out to be duds? I get that at some point you need to just stop and put out what you have, but there are times I think "You looked at these shots and that editing and decided that was the best choice to release?"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on June 09, 2022, 06:20:03 AM
Bit late to this, but:

It's funny you feel this way Gary.  The wife and I loved the spunk of little Leia.  It's foreshadowing who she becomes.  At least we felt this way.

She's still speaking like an adult and it's just weird.
She's 10 years old, not a small infant. And not just that, but a 10-year-old brought up with wealth and privilege and education. Complaints about her dialogue seem to come from a position that all children are the same and speak in the same way, which is nonsense.

When did you become a bad acting apologist?

Jake Lloyd, while also a bad child actor, at least spoke like a child.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on June 09, 2022, 06:34:06 AM
Vader killed younglings. I'm sure he has no issue torturing them as well. Same with the inquisitors.

Speaking of, at this point, Reva has go away heat. I'm sorry, maybe the actress is good in other things, but here she's terrible.

Oh she's horrible, no doubt. One of the worst characters of the franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 09, 2022, 07:11:44 AM
No excuse for this to have not been knocked out of the park. Too much money and too much talent out there for just an average…..Ho hum effort like this.
I get what you're saying here, but I think it's more difficult to make a fantastic movie or show than we think. How many huge blockbusters that on paper sounded awesome turned out to be duds? I get that at some point you need to just stop and put out what you have, but there are times I think "You looked at these shots and that editing and decided that was the best choice to release?"

I totally get that. But take the scene where Vader was dragging Kenobi through the fire....fire gets put out....the little rescue happens and the fire is started again.....then a slow walking dock droid grabs Kenobi and walks him a few mounds over and they get off the planet. The Imperial presence on the planet alone wouldn't have allowed them to escape.....shoot....Reva was already at the hangar capturing Leia. The company of Storm Troopers that were there with Vader could have easily circumvented that small isolated fire and neutralized that droid and chic.....shoot....Vader could have just simply force grabbed Kenobi again and broke him in half.

For me...lazy writing like that has no business being produced by a multi Billion dollar company with the resources they have at hand. I understand it's tough to write blockbuster style shows but lazy writing that makes no sense.....like that scene and a dozen other scenes in this series thus far that make no sense.....should not happen.

As I mentioned before, I think my expectations probably set me up for disappointment because I expect a show like this that has the lore, the available characters and content....to be executed by a global entertainment giant flawlessly. In large part Disney has dropped the ball as far as storytelling goes with Star Wars big time. Mandalorian is great....but overwhelmingly they've mismanaged a LOT of the storytelling.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 09, 2022, 07:48:14 AM
Am I just missing it? When in this series is Third Sister referred to as “Reva?”

One of the more puzzling aspects of Star Wars is when force wielders choose and don’t choose to just “use the force.” The jets are getting away, so Reva picks up a chunk of the station and hurls it at one of them. Could she not also have just grabbed the ship when it was firing at her and flung it away/destroyed it with the force? I remember think this when Vader fights Luke in Empire. He hurls a bunch of junk at him at one point using the force, we’ve seen him hold people up to choke them using the force. But he can’t catch Luke when he jumps off the ledge?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 09, 2022, 07:51:51 AM
Am I just missing it? When in this series is Third Sister referred to as “Reva?”

Don't recall the scene or when....but that is her name.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 09, 2022, 08:12:27 AM
No excuse for this to have not been knocked out of the park. Too much money and too much talent out there for just an average…..Ho hum effort like this.
I get what you're saying here, but I think it's more difficult to make a fantastic movie or show than we think. How many huge blockbusters that on paper sounded awesome turned out to be duds? I get that at some point you need to just stop and put out what you have, but there are times I think "You looked at these shots and that editing and decided that was the best choice to release?"

I totally get that. But take the scene where Vader was dragging Kenobi through the fire....fire gets put out....the little rescue happens and the fire is started again.....then a slow walking dock droid grabs Kenobi and walks him a few mounds over and they get off the planet. The Imperial presence on the planet alone wouldn't have allowed them to escape.....shoot....Reva was already at the hangar capturing Leia. The company of Storm Troopers that were there with Vader could have easily circumvented that small isolated fire and neutralized that droid and chic.....shoot....Vader could have just simply force grabbed Kenobi again and broke him in half.

For me...lazy writing like that has no business being produced by a multi Billion dollar company with the resources they have at hand. I understand it's tough to write blockbuster style shows but lazy writing that makes no sense.....like that scene and a dozen other scenes in this series thus far that make no sense.....should not happen.

As I mentioned before, I think my expectations probably set me up for disappointment because I expect a show like this that has the lore, the available characters and content....to be executed by a global entertainment giant flawlessly. In large part Disney has dropped the ball as far as storytelling goes with Star Wars big time. Mandalorian is great....but overwhelmingly they've mismanaged a LOT of the storytelling.


Completely agree with what you're saying. I have a hard time thinking that they watched the final cut of that scene and thought "it's perfect!" I have to imagine they thought "why did Vader seemingly let him get away so easily?" and they came up with a mental justification for why it makes sense. I learned years ago to shut off my brain and just enjoy the entertainment. There are moments that are so bad (like Leia's chase through the forest) that I notice, but for the most part I just let it slide and enjoy it for what it is. Star Wars and the MCU in particular I am able to overlook flaws and just have fun watching.

I think one of the problems with shows versus movies is that shows give us time to digest in small chunks and nitpick things before the full story is done in a way that it's harder to do with movies. Take The Last Jedi for instance. There were a ton of bad plot things: Leia floating through space, the casino planet, the slow chase through space. But I thought the ending was great, so I left the theater thinking that I really enjoyed the movie. All Star Wars movies have a few dumb moments to nitpick, but normally we're whisked off to the next scene without being able to think about it too much.

One of the more puzzling aspects of Star Wars is when force wielders choose and don’t choose to just “use the force.”
I think this is one of the more inconsistent things about Star Wars as well. The Force is used when it's needed to forward the plot rather than when it makes logical sense. I like to think that Force wielders are like us in that our brains take time to process what is happening and react. They may not react fast enough to be able to use the Force to help them. Jedi are easily able to block blaster bolts when they are expecting them to come. But when the clone troopers turn on them and they are not expecting to be shot at, they're taken down easily.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 09, 2022, 08:18:38 AM
It was a very meh episode.

I feel like the amount of times they stopped caring about things making sense is getting a bit too much.

The flooding the hallway scene was just....too much of a leap in logic and physics. I just couldn't buy into it.

Also the storm troopers not seeing Obi-Wan in the hallway when they were IN THE SAME DAMN SHOT just made me face palm.

It just feels so lazy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 09, 2022, 08:19:21 AM
I learned years ago to shut off my brain and just enjoy the entertainment. There are moments that are so bad (like Leia's chase through the forest) that I notice, but for the most part I just let it slide and enjoy it for what it is. Star Wars and the MCU in particular I am able to overlook flaws and just have fun watching.

Yeah....totally understand that and as I stated a page or so ago.....despite my seemingly only nit picking this show I'm generally enjoying it....it's SW content and is adding to the story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on June 09, 2022, 08:24:34 AM
The flooding the hallway scene was just....too much of a leap in logic and physics. I just couldn't buy into it.

This pissed me off so much.  Obi wasn't even wet! WTF?

And them walking out with Leah under his long jacket like no one would see that?  How stupid did that look?

Otherwise, I actually didn't hate the episode.  But attention to detail seems to be lacking.

Also, add me to the group of people who can't stand young Leah. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 09, 2022, 09:25:38 AM
Otherwise, I actually didn't hate the episode.  But attention to detail seems to be lacking.
That scene sort of makes sense given that Reva had a tracker on Leia and wanted them to escape. So maybe some people knew to ignore them. It's a stretch though and that scene could definitely have been done better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 09, 2022, 09:25:49 AM
The flooding the hallway scene was just....too much of a leap in logic and physics. I just couldn't buy into it.

This pissed me off so much.  Obi wasn't even wet! WTF?

And them walking out with Leah under his long jacket like no one would see that?  How stupid did that look?

Otherwise, I actually didn't hate the episode.  But attention to detail seems to be lacking.

Also, add me to the group of people who can't stand young Leah.

Another funny thing was Obi-wan swimming into the station, robes and all, but stepping out of the portal dry as a bone.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on June 09, 2022, 09:28:25 AM
Special Jedi fabric.  Instantly dries upon contact with air.  He then dried off his face and hair with his sleeve.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on June 09, 2022, 09:35:18 AM
They seemed to forget that Obi wan was burned and could "barely walk". He frequently used his right arm and showed no signs of injury or pain.

He used the force!

(https://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/THATS-NOT-HOW-THE-FORCE-WORKS.gif)

-Marc.

"That's not how the force works!"  :iknow:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on June 09, 2022, 02:01:30 PM
I learned years ago to shut off my brain and just enjoy the entertainment. There are moments that are so bad (like Leia's chase through the forest) that I notice, but for the most part I just let it slide and enjoy it for what it is. Star Wars and the MCU in particular I am able to overlook flaws and just have fun watching.

Yeah....totally understand that and as I stated a page or so ago.....despite my seemingly only nit picking this show I'm generally enjoying it....it's SW content and is adding to the story.

As someone who has followed Star Wars his whole life (and loved it at times), I feel very sad to say this, but I feel as though some people are still giving the franchise way more respect than it deserves. :lol You basically have to shut your brain off to enjoy it, which stinks because I think that some of the films are genuinely excellent and certain moments are genuinely powerful, but for the most part it's been a giant mess since the prequels and arguably even earlier with some of the Episode VI shenanigans. To quote one of my all-time favorite YouTube videos about Episode IX: "It's terrible... But it's amazing" :corn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on June 09, 2022, 02:19:08 PM
I think that's true to a large extent.  Star Wars was created as good old-fashioned fun adventure where you didn't worry a whole lot about the logic involved as long as things kept moving and were fun.  As movie audiences have matured, we've come to expect more than that.  If you expect more, you're basically setting yourself up for disappointment.  I get it; it's hard to just ignore glaring plot holes and characters being downright stupid or acting contrary to what's been established.  But what are you gonna do, go on the Internet and complain about it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zantera on June 09, 2022, 02:28:11 PM
I am enjoying Obi-Wan mostly due to Ewan McGregor but I was kinda thinking earlier that even though the prequels are terrible and remembered mostly for the wrong reasons, there's an element to them with the creativity (possibly the Lucas element) that I find lacking in pretty much all of the Disney Star Wars so far. SW just feels like another MCU now - same sort of jokes, same sort of story telling and same type of characters. I'm not gonna pretend that the prequels were misunderstood masterpieces but there's some really weird and goofy things in them that kinda make them unique. Despite fairly low screen time I actually remember characters like Nute Gunray or Dexter Jettster.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 09, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
I think that's true to a large extent.  Star Wars was created as good old-fashioned fun adventure where you didn't worry a whole lot about the logic involved as long as things kept moving and were fun.  As movie audiences have matured, we've come to expect more than that.  If you expect more, you're basically setting yourself up for disappointment.  I get it; it's hard to just ignore glaring plot holes and characters being downright stupid or acting contrary to what's been established.  But what are you gonna do, go on the Internet and complain about it?

The problem is while that may be what Star Wars was originally conceived as, there is this whole broader universe of Star Wars movies, literature, and fandom, including the TV serieses, which seem to really want to be taken seriously. It’s one reason it’s hard to maintain that suspended disbelief. This series in particular vacillates between being ultra dark and gritty and being ultra cornball. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on June 09, 2022, 02:45:32 PM
I think that's true to a large extent.  Star Wars was created as good old-fashioned fun adventure where you didn't worry a whole lot about the logic involved as long as things kept moving and were fun.  As movie audiences have matured, we've come to expect more than that.  If you expect more, you're basically setting yourself up for disappointment.  I get it; it's hard to just ignore glaring plot holes and characters being downright stupid or acting contrary to what's been established.  But what are you gonna do, go on the Internet and complain about it?

The problem is while that may be what Star Wars was originally conceived as, there is this whole broader universe of Star Wars movies, literature, and fandom, including the TV serieses, which seem to really want to be taken seriously. It’s one reason it’s hard to maintain that suspended disbelief. This series in particular vacillates between being ultra dark and gritty and being ultra cornball.

Yeah, and so for people like me  who want something in between, and really vibed with the original George Lucas desire to "recreate" the Saturday afternoon serials, it's sometimes a bummer. 

I LOVE the original three.  I liked the prequels, not because they were great, but because they had a sort of charm to them; I had to really make an effort to look past the Jake Lloyd's and the Jar Jar Binks', but it was still a kind of fun.  Other than when Harrison Ford was on the screen, I didn't get very much of that "fun" feeling from the last three, to be honest.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 09, 2022, 02:46:06 PM
As movie audiences have matured, we've come to expect more than that.

This is my issue. I'll admit it. I have a difficult time with shows/writing that just do the bare minimum to get by. I get your point of the OT wasn't a Shakespearean masterpiece by any means and that it was just a fun sci fi deal....but movies and TV have evolved so much and there is so much great content and writing out there that....when I see a company as large as Disney basically mailing it in and simply cashing in on the fact they know that the SW fans are going to swarm to anything SW.....it bugs me. Lazy writing is inexcusable IMO when it comes to shows like this.

I understand the roots of the SW universe were fun and loose and not to be taken seriously....but if they want to maintain this legacy they have to step it up. IMO they're dropping the ball with this SW content.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on June 09, 2022, 02:53:27 PM
As movie audiences have matured, we've come to expect more than that.

This is my issue. I'll admit it. I have a difficult time with shows/writing that just do the bare minimum to get by. I get your point of the OT wasn't a Shakespearean masterpiece by any means and that it was just a fun sci fi deal....but movies and TV have evolved so much and there is so much great content and writing out there that....when I see a company as large as Disney basically mailing it in and simply cashing in on the fact they know that the SW fans are going to swarm to anything SW.....it bugs me. Lazy writing is inexcusable IMO when it comes to shows like this.

I understand the roots of the SW universe were fun and loose and not to be taken seriously....but if they want to maintain this legacy they have to step it up. IMO they're dropping the ball with this SW content.

I'm not trying to give you an out here, but I'm not interested in the bare minimum to get by either.  I just don't need the plotlines to be a Robert Ludlum novel.  George, IMO, never took the easy way out (unless it was something beyond his technical ken).  I think he TRIED to make a comprehensive universe and while he followed the same Joseph Campbell tropes as anyone else, there was a charm there.  As corporate as Star Wars got, it never FELT corporate to me until Disney came along.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on June 09, 2022, 03:25:17 PM
I think that's true to a large extent.  Star Wars was created as good old-fashioned fun adventure where you didn't worry a whole lot about the logic involved as long as things kept moving and were fun.  As movie audiences have matured, we've come to expect more than that.  If you expect more, you're basically setting yourself up for disappointment.  I get it; it's hard to just ignore glaring plot holes and characters being downright stupid or acting contrary to what's been established.  But what are you gonna do, go on the Internet and complain about it?

The problem is while that may be what Star Wars was originally conceived as, there is this whole broader universe of Star Wars movies, literature, and fandom, including the TV serieses, which seem to really want to be taken seriously. It’s one reason it’s hard to maintain that suspended disbelief. This series in particular vacillates between being ultra dark and gritty and being ultra cornball.

Yeah, and so for people like me  who want something in between, and really vibed with the original George Lucas desire to "recreate" the Saturday afternoon serials, it's sometimes a bummer. 

I LOVE the original three.  I liked the prequels, not because they were great, but because they had a sort of charm to them; I had to really make an effort to look past the Jake Lloyd's and the Jar Jar Binks', but it was still a kind of fun.  Other than when Harrison Ford was on the screen, I didn't get very much of that "fun" feeling from the last three, to be honest.

If there is one thing the prequels weren't it's fun.  Those movies are tedious to the extreme - wooden acting, stiff dialog and an over reliance on really bad green screen effects.  Any attempts at fun is just terrible childish shite.   Clones in particular is shocking in how boring it is.  As disjointed as the new trilogy from a storytelling point of view is  I had much more fun with them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Realm on June 09, 2022, 04:25:00 PM
Not really sure about this show. Felt like it had potential but hasn't really delivered. I'm ok with young Leia, even though I feel she was included to cash in on the 'baby yoda' vibe of Mando. Including young Leia opens up a whole world on continuity errors though. I mean Leia's hidden message inside R2 in the original movie now kind of doesn't work (apart from anything else)..ie surely she could mention Obi Wan saving her as a child? :)

Also, for anyone who has seen Empire, those speeders that they were rescued in at the end are tiny 2 person fighters. How did 4 people (including the pilot) fit in there?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: kaos2900 on June 10, 2022, 08:54:10 AM
I view these shows (both SW and Marvel) more like books with each episode being a chapter of the story. It's hard to form a solid opinion of the entire story/series until everything has been released. I think the show has been fun and entertaining but I'm withholding my final opinion until the last two episodes drop. Also, I don't have a negative opinion on the actress playing Leah other than the fact that she doesn't look/act like a 10 year old kid. My daughter is nine 1/2 and seems way older than this girl.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on June 10, 2022, 09:15:26 AM
I think it's two separate factors, actually.  Yeah, audiences "maturing" and expecting more is part of it.  But you also have quality that has dipped, which makes the gap even wider. 

This show, so far, has its good and its bad.  As far a look and feel, Star Wars has never looked better.  The look and feel of the base where most of this story took place were INCREDIBLE!  It was a new place.  There were lots of things we have never seen.  And yet, it felt so comfortably Star Wars.  And it looked really slick.  And thank goodness for that because it is almost, ALMOST enough to distract me enough from the bad storytelling enough to allow me to enjoy the show as a whole.  And that's kind of where I am so far.  I am "almost enjoying it," and it's a shame that I have to qualify it with "almost" because that's really only there because of issues that distract from what could be a really cool show.

Here's one of my biggest issues:  I haven't seen anyone else really discuss this, so maybe it's only me.  Or maybe I just missed others talking about it.  But the idea of the Inquisitors in general is a huge problem.  In the abstract, it's a really cool idea.  But the problem is, it creates problems with a blunder Lucas made in the story of A New Hope.  The problem is that you now have a formal program to scour the galaxy to hunt down and kill every last jedi that survived Order 66 at all costs, and you have Obi Wan Kenobi being the most hated of ALL the jedi.  Despite being conveniently inept whenever the plot calls for it, they have a good spy and intelligence network and are decent at actually rooting out the jedi.  But with that as the relatively recently established backdrop for what is going on throughout the empire during the period between episodes III and IV, you have the most notorious jedi of all hiding out on Vader's home world under the name "Ben Kenobi."  And the spy and intelligence network somehow never picks this up.  Ever.  ???  And Lucas made the problem worse in the prequels by making Vader from Tatooine in the first place.  He obviously tried to deal with that by trying to give us reasons why Vader would never return there.  But he didn't hit that hard enough to make it believable.  It would have been better if, as portrayed in ep. IV, Tatooine was such a backwater place that it wasn't even on the empire's radar.  But having so many significant things happen there to put it squarely on the empire's radar really makes then never discovering Kenobi such a huge stretch. 

This show has some really good ideas.  The inquisitors in general are a really cool idea.  And the conflict between the jedi code and Obi Wan having to maintain his cover and be anonymous should be pretty compelling.  But instead, to me, it just highlights the problem I mention above.  Hence just being only able to "almost" enjoy it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 10, 2022, 09:30:53 AM
Here's one of my biggest issues:  I haven't seen anyone else really discuss this, so maybe it's only me.  Or maybe I just missed others talking about it.  But the idea of the Inquisitors in general is a huge problem.  In the abstract, it's a really cool idea.  But the problem is, it creates problems with a blunder Lucas made in the story of A New Hope.  The problem is that you now have a formal program to scour the galaxy to hunt down and kill every last jedi that survived Order 66 at all costs, and you have Obi Wan Kenobi being the most hated of ALL the jedi.  Despite being conveniently inept whenever the plot calls for it, they have a good spy and intelligence network and are decent at actually rooting out the jedi.  But with that as the relatively recently established backdrop for what is going on throughout the empire during the period between episodes III and IV, you have the most notorious jedi of all hiding out on Vader's home world under the name "Ben Kenobi."  And the spy and intelligence network somehow never picks this up.  Ever.  ???  And Lucas made the problem worse in the prequels by making Vader from Tatooine in the first place.  He obviously tried to deal with that by trying to give us reasons why Vader would never return there.  But he didn't hit that hard enough to make it believable.  It would have been better if, as portrayed in ep. IV, Tatooine was such a backwater place that it wasn't even on the empire's radar.  But having so many significant things happen there to put it squarely on the empire's radar really makes then never discovering Kenobi such a huge stretch. 

This show has some really good ideas.  The inquisitors in general are a really cool idea.  And the conflict between the jedi code and Obi Wan having to maintain his cover and be anonymous should be pretty compelling.  But instead, to me, it just highlights the problem I mention above.  Hence just being only able to "almost" enjoy it.

Yeah....I think this is where we get into the realm of how hamstrung the subsequent SW storytelling was by the OT given that the world that we're seeing open up now wasn't planned out and 'known' when the OT was written/produced etc etc.

I think "they" have done a good job at shoehorning these cool ideas in.....like the Inquisitors (which I dig a lot!)......but, the inevitability of some of these larger storylines, characters, worlds etc etc not lining up or correlating and...as you mention....outright flying in the face of what we're being told now is always going to be hard to overlook. Ben Kenobi not being discovered on Tatooine by the Inquisitors is kind of being addressed right now....but even then....what we were told about Vadar and Kenobi in the OT now seems askew because of the story being told at the moment.

And from what I've read online....there's more than likely going to be a S2 of Kenobi strictly based on the fact of the large viewership numbers it's getting. Probably isn't needed at all for the SW story but Disney sees the $$$ so we're going to get it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on June 10, 2022, 09:37:48 AM
I actually LOVE the dynamic between Kenobi and Vader, and I love the extent that recent SW live action properties (starting with Rogue I) are portraying Vader is a true villain before his redemption and truly powerful.  It's all pretty cool.  But, yeah, the big problem is the conflict that that all creates and the feeling of "based on what we were told, this really shouldn't be happening). 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 10, 2022, 10:08:16 AM
I actually LOVE the dynamic between Kenobi and Vader, and I love the extent that recent SW live action properties (starting with Rogue I) are portraying Vader is a true villain before his redemption and truly powerful.  It's all pretty cool.  But, yeah, the big problem is the conflict that that all creates and the feeling of "based on what we were told, this really shouldn't be happening).

Agreed.....the 'new' dynamic they're creating falls in line WAY better with the characters they were in the Clone Wars animated series. I was speaking more to the original dynamic that we were told in the OT. It was implied that Vader hadn't seen Kenobi in ages......since well, Kenobi defeated him. Now we're getting more to the story that I guess could still fall in line with that but to me it doesn't quite fit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 10, 2022, 10:09:32 AM
By the way....I'm sure you guys have seen this but for those that haven't or who want to see it again....here you go. I watch this thing a few times a month. Really love how well it was done and truly think it adds to the story....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to2SMng4u1k
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 10, 2022, 10:25:14 AM
I'm also not sure why the inquisitors don't seem to know Leia is force sensitive (or if they do, they don't seem to care). I think it was stated somewhere in this series that they round up kids who are.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 10, 2022, 10:28:25 AM
I'm also not sure why the inquisitors don't seem to know Leia is force sensitive (or if they do, they don't seem to care). I think it was stated somewhere in this series that they round up kids who are.

One would have thought Reva would have figured that out when she tried to read Leia's mind last episode and was thwarted. Which, gave way to a pretty funny line when Leia said "What is this a staring contest?"  :lol   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 10, 2022, 10:29:15 AM
I'm curious how an individual who has been kidnapped by the Empire....twice....shown to be against the Empire and engaged in treason with a known fugitive Jedi can become a trusted member of the imperial senate without question.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 10, 2022, 10:38:12 AM
I'm also not sure why the inquisitors don't seem to know Leia is force sensitive (or if they do, they don't seem to care). I think it was stated somewhere in this series that they round up kids who are.

One would have thought Reva would have figured that out when she tried to read Leia's mind last episode and was thwarted. Which, gave way to a pretty funny line when Leia said "What is this a staring contest?"  :lol

I'm also not sure why Reva thought Leia would have specific intel on the people who smuggled her off the planet. It's not like a 10 year old kid is an operative. They just rescued her.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 10, 2022, 10:40:05 AM
Maybe if Reva didn't kill everyone where she found Leia?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 10, 2022, 10:46:30 AM
Maybe if Reva didn't kill everyone where she found Leia?

LOL, yeah, she is awfully bungling. Such a hot head.

Also, I feel like Vader is kind of continually duped by her. She's done nothing right, but he keeps giving her second chances. Putting the tracker in the droid makes no sense. They are going to take her back home to her family. Why would they take her to their secret base or whatever?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 10, 2022, 10:51:44 AM
Also, I feel like Vader is kind of continually duped by her. She's done nothing right, but he keeps giving her second chances.

I've read that one of the changes to the season was keeping her alive. That originally after she fails Vader (maybe not in that scene but by end of season).....he violently killed her....

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: T-ski on June 10, 2022, 11:46:39 AM
I think it's two separate factors, actually.  Yeah, audiences "maturing" and expecting more is part of it.  But you also have quality that has dipped, which makes the gap even wider. 

This show, so far, has its good and its bad.  As far a look and feel, Star Wars has never looked better.  The look and feel of the base where most of this story took place were INCREDIBLE!  It was a new place.  There were lots of things we have never seen.  And yet, it felt so comfortably Star Wars.  And it looked really slick.  And thank goodness for that because it is almost, ALMOST enough to distract me enough from the bad storytelling enough to allow me to enjoy the show as a whole.  And that's kind of where I am so far.  I am "almost enjoying it," and it's a shame that I have to qualify it with "almost" because that's really only there because of issues that distract from what could be a really cool show.

Here's one of my biggest issues:  I haven't seen anyone else really discuss this, so maybe it's only me.  Or maybe I just missed others talking about it.  But the idea of the Inquisitors in general is a huge problem.  In the abstract, it's a really cool idea.  But the problem is, it creates problems with a blunder Lucas made in the story of A New Hope.  The problem is that you now have a formal program to scour the galaxy to hunt down and kill every last jedi that survived Order 66 at all costs, and you have Obi Wan Kenobi being the most hated of ALL the jedi.  Despite being conveniently inept whenever the plot calls for it, they have a good spy and intelligence network and are decent at actually rooting out the jedi.  But with that as the relatively recently established backdrop for what is going on throughout the empire during the period between episodes III and IV, you have the most notorious jedi of all hiding out on Vader's home world under the name "Ben Kenobi."  And the spy and intelligence network somehow never picks this up.  Ever.  ???  And Lucas made the problem worse in the prequels by making Vader from Tatooine in the first place.  He obviously tried to deal with that by trying to give us reasons why Vader would never return there.  But he didn't hit that hard enough to make it believable.  It would have been better if, as portrayed in ep. IV, Tatooine was such a backwater place that it wasn't even on the empire's radar.  But having so many significant things happen there to put it squarely on the empire's radar really makes then never discovering Kenobi such a huge stretch. 

This show has some really good ideas.  The inquisitors in general are a really cool idea.  And the conflict between the jedi code and Obi Wan having to maintain his cover and be anonymous should be pretty compelling.  But instead, to me, it just highlights the problem I mention above.  Hence just being only able to "almost" enjoy it.

Maybe Kenobi is the Smith of the Star Wars galaxy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 10, 2022, 12:14:44 PM
My memory of the prequels is very sketchy (I've never seen Attack of the Clones either), but does Anakin know he has a brother? I don't remember him having one in The Phantom Menace. It always seemed a little odd that they hid Luke with Anakin's own family. But I guess if Vader didn't know he had kids to begin with then it doesn't matter so much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ErHaO on June 10, 2022, 12:22:02 PM
I really, reaally wish that Star Wars just made new stories. New characters, new planets, new timeline or a different point in the timeline. Disney tried and most of it was bad. And I feel trying to fit into this mess of a canon holds everyone back. I don't want another goddamn prequel (to a prequel), midquel or fanservice series. No sand planet for at least a decade too. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 10, 2022, 12:25:16 PM
I really, reaally wish that Star Wars just made new stories. New characters, new planets, new timeline or a different point in the timeline. Disney tried and most of it was bad. And I feel trying to fit into this mess of a canon holds everyone back. I don't want another goddamn prequel (to a prequel), midquel or fanservice series. No sand planet for at least a decade too.

I thought Mando would be that and it was for most of it. Familiar time period, but new character, new settings (mostly), new stories, and then they kind of went back to the OT as much as they could.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 10, 2022, 01:00:38 PM
I really, reaally wish that Star Wars just made new stories. New characters, new planets, new timeline or a different point in the timeline. 

While it will fall within a timeline that we've seen....this is why I'm excited about the Ahsoka series. Really no ties to any of it....only 'loose' ties that can easily be maneuvered through. And, the host of characters from Rebels that are rumored and confirmed to be in the show are really neat characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Deathless on June 10, 2022, 01:45:39 PM
I really, reaally wish that Star Wars just made new stories. New characters, new planets, new timeline or a different point in the timeline. 

While it will fall within a timeline that we've seen....this is why I'm excited about the Ahsoka series. Really no ties to any of it....only 'loose' ties that can easily be maneuvered through. And, the host of characters from Rebels that are rumored and confirmed to be in the show are really neat characters.

Are they still moving forward with the Old Republic movie/series? I thought i had seen that but didn't see any updates. Obviously if they follow the games (KOTOR 1/2) there are characters to be based off of but not quite main canon as they've been working in recently.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 11, 2022, 04:40:13 AM
Also, I feel like Vader is kind of continually duped by her. She's done nothing right, but he keeps giving her second chances.

I've read that one of the changes to the season was keeping her alive. That originally after she fails Vader (maybe not in that scene but by end of season).....he violently killed her....


I actually think that would have been a great twist in the most recent episode. Vader unceremoniously kills Reva for her failure and takes over as the main bad guy for the rest of the series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on June 13, 2022, 08:29:16 AM
I really, reaally wish that Star Wars just made new stories. New characters, new planets, new timeline or a different point in the timeline. Disney tried and most of it was bad. And I feel trying to fit into this mess of a canon holds everyone back. I don't want another goddamn prequel (to a prequel), midquel or fanservice series. No sand planet for at least a decade too. 

Of all the post-Disney Star Wars, I actually think that Jedi Fallen Order (the video game) has the most potential for telling a new, interesting story arc. It mostly avoided fan service until right at the end. I'm really curious to see where that goes next.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 13, 2022, 08:57:59 AM
Also, I feel like Vader is kind of continually duped by her. She's done nothing right, but he keeps giving her second chances.

I've read that one of the changes to the season was keeping her alive. That originally after she fails Vader (maybe not in that scene but by end of season).....he violently killed her....


I actually think that would have been a great twist in the most recent episode. Vader unceremoniously kills Reva for her failure and takes over as the main bad guy for the rest of the series.

100% agree
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 13, 2022, 09:18:47 AM
I really, reaally wish that Star Wars just made new stories. New characters, new planets, new timeline or a different point in the timeline. Disney tried and most of it was bad. And I feel trying to fit into this mess of a canon holds everyone back. I don't want another goddamn prequel (to a prequel), midquel or fanservice series. No sand planet for at least a decade too.
Same.

I really, reaally wish that Star Wars just made new stories. New characters, new planets, new timeline or a different point in the timeline. 

While it will fall within a timeline that we've seen....this is why I'm excited about the Ahsoka series. Really no ties to any of it....only 'loose' ties that can easily be maneuvered through. And, the host of characters from Rebels that are rumored and confirmed to be in the show are really neat characters.
So, nothing whatsoever like ErHaO described?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 13, 2022, 09:38:29 AM
I really, reaally wish that Star Wars just made new stories. New characters, new planets, new timeline or a different point in the timeline. 

While it will fall within a timeline that we've seen....this is why I'm excited about the Ahsoka series. Really no ties to any of it....only 'loose' ties that can easily be maneuvered through. And, the host of characters from Rebels that are rumored and confirmed to be in the show are really neat characters.
So, nothing whatsoever like ErHaO described?

I'm just speculating at this point obviously....but....from what I've read online and the characters they are casting.....the fact that Ahsoka was pretty intent on wanting to know where General Thrawn was in her episode in the Mandalorian....I'd say it's a safe bet that we're just getting a continuation/sequel/next season of 'Rebels'. Which would be great considering how fun that show was.

I'd think that given where it falls within the timeline and what we've seen....it'd give Disney the option to cameo Luke again if they want to keep diving back into that well....but, with them already casting Sabine, and had calls out for characters resembling Ezra and Thrawn....I'm guessing this will be a 'new' story with those characters so it'd be loosely tied to the original cannon stuff but not as bound like the Kenobi series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 13, 2022, 11:34:43 AM
I really, reaally wish that Star Wars just made new stories. New characters, new planets, new timeline or a different point in the timeline. 

While it will fall within a timeline that we've seen....this is why I'm excited about the Ahsoka series. Really no ties to any of it....only 'loose' ties that can easily be maneuvered through. And, the host of characters from Rebels that are rumored and confirmed to be in the show are really neat characters.
So, nothing whatsoever like ErHaO described?

I'm just speculating at this point obviously....but....from what I've read online and the characters they are casting.....the fact that Ahsoka was pretty intent on wanting to know where General Thrawn was in her episode in the Mandalorian....I'd say it's a safe bet that we're just getting a continuation/sequel/next season of 'Rebels'. Which would be great considering how fun that show was.

I'd think that given where it falls within the timeline and what we've seen....it'd give Disney the option to cameo Luke again if they want to keep diving back into that well....but, with them already casting Sabine, and had calls out for characters resembling Ezra and Thrawn....I'm guessing this will be a 'new' story with those characters so it'd be loosely tied to the original cannon stuff but not as bound like the Kenobi series.
But it's still set in the past.  Using characters we know.

That's what I am tired of.  show me what happens NEXT.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zantera on June 13, 2022, 11:41:34 AM
Yeah I also want to see new things. It feels a bit like Star Wars used to be a band I loved that stopped putting out new music and instead every few years you get a 'old classics reinterpreted' or 're-recorded' or whatever and it's just kinda milking what's already there.

As bad as the prequels were, old Georgie had more interesting ideas in those than anything I've seen from Disney in any of their content since purchasing Star Wars. Maybe having someone with his weird ideas but other people to 'reign' that in could have been the best outcome. But overall I just want something entirely different. Why can't we have a set of movies set thousands of years in the past or in the future separate from the things we know - set on new planets? I know the answer is "then we can't shove in Darth Vader or Yoda or any Skywalkers for fan service" but I feel like a lot of fans would be on board even if you didn't have legacy characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 13, 2022, 11:45:27 AM
I really, reaally wish that Star Wars just made new stories. New characters, new planets, new timeline or a different point in the timeline. 

While it will fall within a timeline that we've seen....this is why I'm excited about the Ahsoka series. Really no ties to any of it....only 'loose' ties that can easily be maneuvered through. And, the host of characters from Rebels that are rumored and confirmed to be in the show are really neat characters.
So, nothing whatsoever like ErHaO described?

I'm just speculating at this point obviously....but....from what I've read online and the characters they are casting.....the fact that Ahsoka was pretty intent on wanting to know where General Thrawn was in her episode in the Mandalorian....I'd say it's a safe bet that we're just getting a continuation/sequel/next season of 'Rebels'. Which would be great considering how fun that show was.

I'd think that given where it falls within the timeline and what we've seen....it'd give Disney the option to cameo Luke again if they want to keep diving back into that well....but, with them already casting Sabine, and had calls out for characters resembling Ezra and Thrawn....I'm guessing this will be a 'new' story with those characters so it'd be loosely tied to the original cannon stuff but not as bound like the Kenobi series.
But it's still set in the past.  Using characters we know.

That's what I am tired of.  show me what happens NEXT.

Gotcha.....and, I'm on board with that as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 13, 2022, 11:47:47 AM
I know the answer is "then we can't shove in Darth Vader or Yoda or any Skywalkers for fan service" but I feel like a lot of fans would be on board even if you didn't have legacy characters.

I never read any of the zillion book series that have been written about SW's but I know enough to know that there are countless cool characters and stories out there that could be had. There are Sith Lords that  have existed prior to Vader and Maul that make them look like the kindest souls in the galaxy. Gimme some R rated crap of THOSE stories and characters
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 13, 2022, 01:55:15 PM
But those stories have already been told.

I yearn for something new.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on June 13, 2022, 08:43:08 PM
I am only a couple episodes in and thus been avoiding this thread, but wanted to ask a question: How is this, if it is at all, informing how you view Obi-Wan's character in Eps 1-3, and 4-6? The original trilogy was the defining franchise of my youth. I have such fond memories of all the Star Wars games, toys, and such I grew up with, and the films have such an imprint on my psyche. For different reasons that are harder to explain, Eps 1-3 do as well. And naturally Eps 4-6 inform how I view Eps 1-3, and vice versa. I don't want a subpar experience with this show to negatively inform how I feel about with such a prominent character from those memories of Eps 1-6. Am I overthinking it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 13, 2022, 09:52:20 PM
I am only a couple episodes in and thus been avoiding this thread, but wanted to ask a question: How is this, if it is at all, informing how you view Obi-Wan's character in Eps 1-3, and 4-6? The original trilogy was the defining franchise of my youth. I have such fond memories of all the Star Wars games, toys, and such I grew up with, and the films have such an imprint on my psyche. For different reasons that are harder to explain, Eps 1-3 do as well. And naturally Eps 4-6 inform how I view Eps 1-3, and vice versa. I don't want a subpar experience with this show to negatively inform how I feel about with such a prominent character from those memories of Eps 1-6. Am I overthinking it?

With Obi Wan and Anakin…..IMO you can’t get a true appreciation for their characters and their relationship to each other without watching The Clone Wars animated show. They’re so much more explored and developed over that show that I don’t even consider Anakin from the live action movies as Anakin. Anakin for me IS the character from Clone Wars and it was so well done.

Same with Kenobi. McGregor does a great job as Kenobi but the animated series Kenobi is so much more developed and interesting. This Kenobi show hasn’t affected how I view him at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on June 13, 2022, 09:55:05 PM
Curious. I have not watched any of the animated series. Appreciate the insight I never would have considered.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 14, 2022, 07:17:09 AM
Curious. I have not watched any of the animated series. Appreciate the insight I never would have considered.

I'm sure you've seen the conversation in this thread before.....but the sheer amount of episodes in The Clone Wars makes it quite the task to watch. Even thought they're only 22 minute episodes there's quite a few of them....and early on in the series it's kind of hit and miss with how entertaining the episodes are. I think if you're a SW guy that it's ultimately worth it....but, it's an undertaking for sure.

I'm actually thinking about a re-watch of the whole series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 14, 2022, 06:01:10 PM
I yearn for something new.

Here ya go Hef......

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/taika-waititi-expand-star-wars-170018131.html
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 15, 2022, 04:56:55 AM
I really enjoyed episode 5. That was great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 15, 2022, 07:38:16 AM
I really enjoyed episode 5. That was great.

Dang it.....at work all day and see this.....I want to watch it now!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 15, 2022, 11:39:04 AM
I yearn for something new.

Here ya go Hef......

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/taika-waititi-expand-star-wars-170018131.html
GOOD
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 15, 2022, 11:56:49 AM
I yearn for something new.

Here ya go Hef......

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/taika-waititi-expand-star-wars-170018131.html
GOOD

This was the best quote:

“Look, I think for the ‘Star Wars’ universe to expand, it has to expand,” Waititi told Total Film about his yet-to-be-titled movie. “I don’t think that I’m any use in the ‘Star Wars’ universe making a film where everyone’s like, ‘Oh great, well that’s the blueprints to the Millennium Falcon, ah that’s Chewbacca’s grandmother.'”

 :lol

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on June 15, 2022, 03:26:45 PM
Yeah I also want to see new things. It feels a bit like Star Wars used to be a band I loved that stopped putting out new music and instead every few years you get a 'old classics reinterpreted' or 're-recorded' or whatever and it's just kinda milking what's already there.

As bad as the prequels were, old Georgie had more interesting ideas in those than anything I've seen from Disney in any of their content since purchasing Star Wars. Maybe having someone with his weird ideas but other people to 'reign' that in could have been the best outcome. But overall I just want something entirely different. Why can't we have a set of movies set thousands of years in the past or in the future separate from the things we know - set on new planets? I know the answer is "then we can't shove in Darth Vader or Yoda or any Skywalkers for fan service" but I feel like a lot of fans would be on board even if you didn't have legacy characters.
While I understand what you're getting at and would also prefer some new stories and new ideas, I don't think they're in an easy position. I agree with you that while the prequels were flawed, they have some good and different ideas. They did not go down well at all. For the sequels, TFA was by far the most popular, and also by far the closest to rehashing the original. TLJ tried doing something new and some fans hate it.

While there might be grumbling about things getting a bit repetitive and samey, generally speaking the response has been on average more positive when they've played it safer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on June 15, 2022, 03:46:15 PM
This penultimate episode was pretty good. I'd say about as good as any other episode this season so far, though seeing those flashbacks was quite interesting, and helped to fill out the story a bit more. Seeing as how the episode ended, it seems pretty predictable what the final episode will entail as we finally head back to the center of the galaxy, Tatooine. I didn't think we'd go back there but it seems like that may be the case for the finale.

Has it been said if there could be a second season? After today's episode, I wonder how many fans (especially those of the Prequel Trilogy) will want to see more Hayden in future projects? Seems like there's a lot of positive fan response to his appearance in this episode, so I wonder if that will increase the amount of screentime he might have in Ahsoka, or perhaps in a second season of Obi-Wan?

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 15, 2022, 05:58:38 PM
Ok...now that was some proper Star Wars style entertainment, definitely a step up for the series. It's amazing that an episode like this and that stupid forest chase scene came out of the same creative hive mind.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 15, 2022, 06:13:40 PM
It's amazing that an episode like this and that stupid forest chase scene came out of the same creative hive mind.
I know, right?

So Reva could really be a pretty interesting character to explore the history of. Youngling who escaped Order 66, grows up with an intense hatred of Anakin Skywalker, and works her way into his inner circle in order to assassinate him. On paper that sounds pretty cool. It's too bad she's really come off as a mediocre character. Not sure if that's due to mediocre writing, mediocre acting, or both. I can kind of see Lucasfilm creating a spin off series for her just to stick it to the racist assholes. The potential for something cool is there. She should have died a brutal death in episode 5 though. I don't see what role she has to play in the finale that adds anything significant.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 15, 2022, 06:20:19 PM
Ok...now that was some proper Star Wars style entertainment, definitely a step up for the series. It's amazing that an episode like this and that stupid forest chase scene came out of the same creative hive mind.

Yeah….no kidding. Great episode and use of the flashback to tie into what was going on. Just in that few minutes of screen time the flashback characters seemed more developed…..very ‘clone wars cartoon’ like.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 15, 2022, 06:24:02 PM
Loved the schooling Vader gave the Third Sister as well. That was good stuff.


I’m assuming that was the scene that was rewritten from her being brutally killed to him leaving her alive? If there was an issue with the episode it’s that I find it hard to believe he’d have left her alive after all of that but still a great episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 15, 2022, 06:40:17 PM
Yeah, totally would have been in character for Vader to decapitate her when he had a saber in each hand.


And I thought I saw that they were doing a solo show for her, or maybe that was a good troll effort.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 15, 2022, 07:14:20 PM
And somewhere Qui Gon is pissed off that all these Sith/dark side users are surviving light sabers being thrust through their bodies and he had to die  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on June 15, 2022, 07:37:04 PM
Yeah, totally would have been in character for Vader to decapitate her when he had a saber in each hand.


And I thought I saw that they were doing a solo show for her, or maybe that was a good troll effort.

That's what I thought was going to happen. It would've been a great callback to ROTS.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 15, 2022, 07:50:13 PM
And somewhere Qui Gon is pissed off that all these Sith/dark side users are surviving light sabers being thrust through their bodies and he had to die  :lol

 :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 15, 2022, 07:58:29 PM
Yeah, totally would have been in character for Vader to decapitate her when he had a saber in each hand.


And I thought I saw that they were doing a solo show for her, or maybe that was a good troll effort.

That's what I thought was going to happen. It would've been a great callback to ROTS.
It really should have happened. I think leaving her alive was a mistake. I guess we'll  see if she still has a role to.play in the finale. Or season 2, which is apparently on the table now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 15, 2022, 08:09:46 PM
Yeah, totally would have been in character for Vader to decapitate her when he had a saber in each hand.


And I thought I saw that they were doing a solo show for her, or maybe that was a good troll effort.

That's what I thought was going to happen. It would've been a great callback to ROTS.
It really should have happened. I think leaving her alive was a mistake. I guess we'll  see if she still has a role to.play in the finale. Or season 2, which is apparently on the table now.

From what I’ve read that’s what originally happened and it was part of the reshoots when it was deemed the show was too dark. It fit the story to have had it happen…..not that it’s cheapened at all but we all know there’s no way Vader leaves her alive in that moment.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 15, 2022, 08:50:44 PM
A much better episode but still some very poor writing moments that just take me out of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on June 16, 2022, 02:25:23 AM
A much better episode but still some very poor writing moments that just take me out of it.

Like the scene where Obi and Reva talking about killing Vader right in earshot of a platoon of Stormtroopers  ;D.  Yeah better episode, but it was basically the finale of The Last Jedi on a smaller scale, and the de-aged graphics of Anakin vs Obi looked like a Xbox 1 vs 1 beat em up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 16, 2022, 04:51:35 AM
A much better episode but still some very poor writing moments that just take me out of it.

Like the scene where Obi and Reva talking about killing Vader right in earshot of a platoon of Stormtroopers  ;D.  Yeah better episode, but it was basically the finale of The Last Jedi on a smaller scale, and the de-aged graphics of Anakin vs Obi looked like a Xbox 1 vs 1 beat em up.

I must be in the minority here... I thought it was one of the weakest of the series.

I have trouble accepting Reva would have been strong enough to emotionally hold on to her anger and revenge factor while being trained/broken as an Inquisitor
So, Old-Man Kenobi who hasn't picked up a lightsaber in 10 years can hold off and deflect a battalion's worth of fire power?  When active Masters were taken down by much less in Order 66?
Since when do laser cannons need to be "re-loaded"?
Why didn't Reva force pull the thermal detonator out of Talia's hands (vs shouting "run")
If Vader could force pull down that ship, why didn't he just hold on to the 2nd/actual escape transport?
How is being impaled by a lightsaber just a flesh wound?
If Anakin decapitated Dooku, Vader surely would've done the exact same to Reva.
And don't get me started with Leia or Lola.

Too many things that were simply too obviously far-fetched, and non-sensical.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on June 16, 2022, 05:02:46 AM
Too many things that were simply too obviously far-fetched, and non-sensical.
It's like you've never watched Star Wars before. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Grappler on June 16, 2022, 07:07:43 AM
Seeing Vader's full power using the force against a lightsaber was badass.   :metal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 16, 2022, 07:10:25 AM
I have trouble accepting Reva would have been strong enough to emotionally hold on to her anger and revenge factor while being trained/broken as an Inquisitor

This has been an issue the whole series.....The Inquisitors are essentially Vader's personal trained pets who obey him blindly. Her attitude and demeanor this entire time was suspect and it's tough to believe Vader didn't know this. Only reason would be that he was bored and allowed this whole thing to happen for fun....

So, Old-Man Kenobi who hasn't picked up a lightsaber in 10 years can hold off and deflect a battalion's worth of fire power?  When active Masters were taken down by much less in Order 66?

I don't have a problem with this because Kenobi was/is a extremely powerful Jedi. I don't think it's too tough to believe he could knock off the rust pretty quickly. I was a heck of a ping-pong player back in the day....recently found myself in a situation where we were at a house with a table and some folks there were playing that were pretty good. First game or two I was rusty and got beat but before long I didn't surrender the table all night. Not exactly the same but same concept

If Vader could force pull down that ship, why didn't he just hold on to the 2nd/actual escape transport?

Don't have an issue with this either. The sheer amount of force 'strength' or whatever you call it to pull that off has been shown to be extremely draining in the movies/shows that SW's has released. I think he blew his load on the first ship and simple wasn't able to grab the second one.

How is being impaled by a lightsaber just a flesh wound?

I mentioned this on the last page.....it's becoming a problem that now twice in this show a full blown saber through the body isn't killing anyone anymore. Qui Gon must have been a pu$$y.  :lol

If Anakin decapitated Dooku, Vader surely would've done the exact same to Reva.

HUGE miss on the writing and I'd bet bottom dollar that's the scene that has been talked about a lot on the internet that was re-written. I think originally he probably toyed with her a bit then brutally killed her. The brass at Disney said it was too dark and also had the bright idea of keeping her involved in the story instead. Should have killed her and let that be that.

And don't get me started with Leia or Lola.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 16, 2022, 07:11:00 AM
Seeing Vader's full power using the force against a lightsaber was badass.   :metal

That whole fight scene was pretty cool to see Vader just 'show off' basically.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 16, 2022, 07:14:00 AM
I think the few scenes that took me out were, 1) When Reva sent Obi Wan and two storm troopers back into the place....why? What in gods name was she hoping for there? It just felt so random and unmotivated. 2) Reva hunting Vader as revenge for killing the Jedi but then she goes and slaughters countless Jedi on the way? Huh? 3) Vader revealing that he knew all of this ahead of time but still let her live and ruin the whole plan.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 16, 2022, 07:14:20 AM
I have trouble accepting Reva would have been strong enough to emotionally hold on to her anger and revenge factor while being trained/broken as an Inquisitor
She wasn't. Vader knew and was toying with her basically.

So, Old-Man Kenobi who hasn't picked up a lightsaber in 10 years can hold off and deflect a battalion's worth of fire power?  When active Masters were taken down by much less in Order 66?
Obi Wan was standing against a known enemy. The Jedi masters were assassinated by their own side.

Why didn't Reva force pull the thermal detonator out of Talia's hands (vs shouting "run")
If Vader could force pull down that ship, why didn't he just hold on to the 2nd/actual escape transport?
Inconsistency in use of the Force is all of Star Wars is a bit of a problem, IMO. Surprise is a factor I suppose. I don't always react in the best way when I have a split second to make a choice.



How is being impaled by a lightsaber just a flesh wound?
It's self cauterizing. But yes, the inconsistency of damage done by a lightsaber is annoying.


If Anakin decapitated Dooku, Vader surely would've done the exact same to Reva.
Anakin decapitated Dooku at the request of Palpatine. So I don't know that those are direct comparisons. But I also find it stupid that she was left alive. I think it would have been much better if he unceremoniously killed her after toying with her for a bit like he did.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 16, 2022, 07:16:57 AM
If Vader could force pull down that ship, why didn't he just hold on to the 2nd/actual escape transport?

Don't have an issue with this either. The sheer amount of force 'strength' or whatever you call it to pull that off has been shown to be extremely draining in the movies/shows that SW's has released. I think he blew his load on the first ship and simple wasn't able to grab the second one.


Seeing Vader's full power using the force against a lightsaber was badass.   :metal

That whole fight scene was pretty cool to see Vader just 'show off' basically.

IMO, these two things don't play well together (the events, not your reference to them).  I hear what you're saying about each individually, but if he was so drained after hauling down that empty freighter, he shouldn't have had the strength to then dismantle Reva so *effortlessly*.

Too many things that were simply too obviously far-fetched, and non-sensical.
It's like you've never watched Star Wars before. :lol

Well, yeah... but the points I mentioned were just glaringly painful (imo).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 16, 2022, 07:17:59 AM
I think the few scenes that took me out were, 1) When Reva sent Obi Wan and two storm troopers back into the place....why? What in gods name was she hoping for there? It just felt so random and unmotivated. 2) Reva hunting Vader as revenge for killing the Jedi but then she goes and slaughters countless Jedi on the way? Huh? 3) Vader revealing that he knew all of this ahead of time but still let her live and ruin the whole plan.

I concur with these points as well.  I just stopped typing (remembering) about the bad parts.  Don't get me wrong, there was some good to this episode, but it was outweighed by the bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 16, 2022, 07:27:05 AM
IMO, these two things don't play well together (the events, not your reference to them).  I hear what you're saying about each individually, but if he was so drained after hauling down that empty freighter, he shouldn't have had the strength to then dismantle Reva so *effortlessly*.

Maybe....but....two things could play into it. Could have been plenty of time for him to 'rest and recharge' simple because Reva isn't that strong of a Force user. Vader is Master Class level and I'd think pulling down a ship is tougher than defending a person swinging a sword....especially one that isn't all that experienced.

But I get the conundrum there....just don't see it as a big issue....I think the other complaints on the episode hold more validity.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on June 16, 2022, 07:27:32 AM
1) When Reva sent Obi Wan and two storm troopers back into the place....why? What in gods name was she hoping for there? It just felt so random and unmotivated.
I understood that to be so she could say "I have Obi-Wan in there" to Vader, and therefore get him alone.

Quote
2) Reva hunting Vader as revenge for killing the Jedi but then she goes and slaughters countless Jedi on the way? Huh?
I'm undecided on this, and perhaps there isn't a simple answer. It also relates to Jingle's scepticism about Reva holding onto her anger without being fully turned to the Dark Side. My impression is that she basically hasn't cared either way about the jedi. The only thing that has mattered to her is revenge on Anakin/Vader. If killing jedi and hunting down Kenobi is the way to do that, that's what she does.

Quote
3) Vader revealing that he knew all of this ahead of time but still let her live and ruin the whole plan.
She wasn't ruining the plan, I see her more as part of it - Vader only found Kenobi in the first place because of her, which was presumably his intention all along. Although in the end her actions helped him escape, which Vader presumably didn't foresee. I've seen a couple of people point out that this links nicely to A New Hope, when Vader learns Kenobi is on the Death Star, and says "I'll deal with him myself".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 16, 2022, 07:31:23 AM
I mean, I get that you CAN make up or imply or whatever any explanation for these problems, but the fact that we have to and the show doesn't really address any of them is a bit of a problem. If you have 0 problems, cool. I think the episode had some very cool and strong moments, but this show has been plagued by convenient writing that makes little sense other than to get from point A to point B in a way that is artificial and lacking in internal logic. Again, if you're not bothered by it, awesome, but it seems a number of us are.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on June 16, 2022, 07:38:35 AM
I mean, I get that you CAN make up or imply or whatever any explanation for these problems, but the fact that we have to and the show doesn't really address any of them is a bit of a problem. If you have 0 problems, cool. I think the episode had some very cool and strong moments, but this show has been plagued by convenient writing that makes little sense other than to get from point A to point B in a way that is artificial and lacking in internal logic. Again, if you're not bothered by it, awesome, but it seems a number of us are.
This is a little leading - you're couching things as "problems" and saying it's cool if people aren't bothered by them, but I'm disagreeing that they are problems. Of those three, the first and third are pretty clear and logical as far as I'm concerned. The second I agree is less clear, more ambiguous, but I don't consider that makes it a problem.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 16, 2022, 07:41:26 AM
That’s cool. But I see some of them as problems. You disagreeing doesn’t make them not problems. It just means they’re problems for me and others and not problems for you and others. So I apologize for my wording.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 16, 2022, 08:50:09 AM
What I liked about the episode was the juxtaposition of the flashback with Kenobi training Padawan Anakin and the 'real time' events....and how Vader failed in that instance because he failed to absorb the lesson Kenobi was teaching Anakin. I also liked how they displayed Vader's sheer power and fierocity and showed that he's on a level that no one else around is.

The writing is what the writing is on this show. Certainly can nit pick it to death but at this point I'm just trying to take it all in as some more SW's stuff and try not to get to bent out of shape over some lazy writing. We've beat that to death....there's no excuse for it but I don't think it's going to change anytime soon.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 16, 2022, 08:52:04 AM
What I liked about the episode was the juxtaposition of the flashback with Kenobi training Padawan Anakin and the 'real time' events....and how Vader failed in that instance because he failed to absorb the lesson Kenobi was teaching Anakin. I also liked how they displayed Vader's sheer power and fierocity and showed that he's on a level that no one else around is.

The writing is what the writing is on this show. Certainly can nit pick it to death but at this point I'm just trying to take it all in as some more SW's stuff and try not to get to bent out of shape over some lazy writing. We've beat that to death....there's no excuse for it but I don't think it's going to change anytime soon.

Yea. While I point out those issues I had, and they were issues for me, I am still enjoying the show and thought this was a good episode and the flashbacks were great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 16, 2022, 09:21:09 AM
@chad...after seeing your criticisms, all I can say is micromanaging Star Wars never works out well. If you're gonna dig into ever flaw, you're going to have a bad time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 16, 2022, 09:40:01 AM
@chad...after seeing your criticisms, all I can say is micromanaging Star Wars never works out well. If you're gonna dig into ever flaw, you're going to have a bad time.
While I agree, I wish we didn't have to make statements like that about Star Wars. Not that any franchise is flawless, but I feel Star Wars is the most flawed major media franchise. There have been as many bad Star Wars movies/shows as there are good ones. Maybe even more bad ones than good ones. It doesn't seem like it should be terribly difficult to make a good Star Wars movie or show. The formula is not complicated. But clearly it's harder than we think. Heck, George Lucas really only made 2 or 3 really good Star Wars movies and 3 or 4 that were OK to bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 16, 2022, 09:49:49 AM
@chad...after seeing your criticisms, all I can say is micromanaging Star Wars never works out well. If you're gonna dig into ever flaw, you're going to have a bad time.
While I agree, I wish we didn't have to make statements like that about Star Wars. Not that any franchise is flawless, but I feel Star Wars is the most flawed major media franchise. There have been as many bad Star Wars movies/shows as there are good ones. Maybe even more bad ones than good ones. It doesn't seem like it should be terribly difficult to make a good Star Wars movie or show. The formula is not complicated. But clearly it's harder than we think. Heck, George Lucas really only made 2 or 3 really good Star Wars movies and 3 or 4 that were OK to bad.

For me it's something as simple as say......the chase scene with Leia for instance. Cast a 10-12 year old girl that is quick and has parkour type moves to where you can film that scene and it feels realistic. That little girl was waddling through the woods like a penguin searching for an opening in an ice shelf. Just looked horrible. There are plenty of talented young actresses to choose from that could have captured the look but also pulled off the physical stuff.

It's those instances that could be addressed and tightened up.....then...apply some common sense crap to the writing.....like the whole Vader/Kenobi first fight scene and the fire....just poorly scripted and written.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on June 16, 2022, 09:58:15 AM
It's almost like this show isn't written very well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on June 16, 2022, 10:18:40 AM
@chad...after seeing your criticisms, all I can say is micromanaging Star Wars never works out well. If you're gonna dig into ever flaw, you're going to have a bad time.
While I agree, I wish we didn't have to make statements like that about Star Wars. Not that any franchise is flawless, but I feel Star Wars is the most flawed major media franchise. There have been as many bad Star Wars movies/shows as there are good ones. Maybe even more bad ones than good ones. It doesn't seem like it should be terribly difficult to make a good Star Wars movie or show. The formula is not complicated. But clearly it's harder than we think. Heck, George Lucas really only made 2 or 3 really good Star Wars movies and 3 or 4 that were OK to bad.

For me it's something as simple as say......the chase scene with Leia for instance. Cast a 10-12 year old girl that is quick and has parkour type moves to where you can film that scene and it feels realistic. That little girl was waddling through the woods like a penguin searching for an opening in an ice shelf. Just looked horrible. There are plenty of talented young actresses to choose from that could have captured the look but also pulled off the physical stuff.
Still not as bad as the Boba Fett market chase scene. :lol


@chad...after seeing your criticisms, all I can say is micromanaging Star Wars never works out well. If you're gonna dig into ever flaw, you're going to have a bad time.
While I agree, I wish we didn't have to make statements like that about Star Wars. Not that any franchise is flawless, but I feel Star Wars is the most flawed major media franchise. There have been as many bad Star Wars movies/shows as there are good ones. Maybe even more bad ones than good ones. It doesn't seem like it should be terribly difficult to make a good Star Wars movie or show. The formula is not complicated. But clearly it's harder than we think. Heck, George Lucas really only made 2 or 3 really good Star Wars movies and 3 or 4 that were OK to bad.
I sort of agree, but I don't think that the sorts of flaws we're talking about make a massive difference to the overall quality. For me, Star Wars has always been flawed, but always been enjoyable. It's never hung together all that well if you think about it too much, but has great ideas and story arcs. Those even out to something that, overall, is good and enjoyable.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: bosk1 on June 16, 2022, 10:20:31 AM
What I liked about the episode was the juxtaposition of the flashback with Kenobi training Padawan Anakin and the 'real time' events....and how Vader failed in that instance because he failed to absorb the lesson Kenobi was teaching Anakin. I also liked how they displayed Vader's sheer power and fierocity and showed that he's on a level that no one else around is.

The writing is what the writing is on this show. Certainly can nit pick it to death but at this point I'm just trying to take it all in as some more SW's stuff and try not to get to bent out of shape over some lazy writing. We've beat that to death....there's no excuse for it but I don't think it's going to change anytime soon.

Yea. While I point out those issues I had, and they were issues for me, I am still enjoying the show and thought this was a good episode and the flashbacks were great.

This is pretty much where I am.  I do think it is the best episode so far.  But there were still some problems where the writing wasn't particularly good.  And it's frustrating to me because, as is the case with all things Star Wars from the prequels onward, there's a really good story in there, and some really good ideas, and it is all just executed poorly at times. 

On the other hand, as is often pointed out in these discussions, it still has that feel of the Saturday afternoon serial that Lucas was going for 4 1/2 decades ago.  And in that vein, this is a franchise that keeps on delivering content that, if you let it, is fun, and I can appreciate that.  It's like ball park nachos.  Back in the '70s, your basic nachos with just chips, cheese sludge, and jalapenos were kind of a new thing.  When you could get them, they were great, and you kind of ignored the fact that they were bad for you and weren't really "good food" at all, but had a novel yumminess factor that, in the moment, was pretty good.  As time passed, we learned how to take nachos up several notches and even make them gourmet.  And the basic nachos became even worse because they are now often prepackaged chips with a vaccuum sealed cup of jalapeno flavored (or plain) cheese sauce that is inferior to the original (not to mention getting the cheese/chip ratio totally wrong).  I can occasionally have that as a snack at the ballpark.  I know it's empty calories and that it is objectively not good food.  But it's fun and familiar, and I can enjoy it in the moment if I let myself not get tied in knots over the issues I have with it.

One last issue regarding Reva:  Maybe I am missing the point, but I saw her character motivation a bit differently that some of what was posted above.  I'm not sure her long game was getting revenge on Vader, and that she tamped that down and hid it until she could take advantage.  How I took her character is that she equally hated Vader and the jedi for what happened to her as a child, but that she basically saw revenge against Vade as out of reach, so she embraced the dark side and poured all her hate into revenge against the jedi, but that Obi Wan's conversation with her made her realize that she could perhaps get to Vader after all, so she pivoted and took that perceived opportunity.  Am I off on that?  Maybe I just wasn't paying close attention.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 16, 2022, 11:02:08 AM
@chad...after seeing your criticisms, all I can say is micromanaging Star Wars never works out well. If you're gonna dig into ever flaw, you're going to have a bad time.
While I agree, I wish we didn't have to make statements like that about Star Wars. Not that any franchise is flawless, but I feel Star Wars is the most flawed major media franchise. There have been as many bad Star Wars movies/shows as there are good ones. Maybe even more bad ones than good ones. It doesn't seem like it should be terribly difficult to make a good Star Wars movie or show. The formula is not complicated. But clearly it's harder than we think. Heck, George Lucas really only made 2 or 3 really good Star Wars movies and 3 or 4 that were OK to bad.
I sort of agree, but I don't think that the sorts of flaws we're talking about make a massive difference to the overall quality. For me, Star Wars has always been flawed, but always been enjoyable. It's never hung together all that well if you think about it too much, but has great ideas and story arcs. Those even out to something that, overall, is good and enjoyable.


I agree that most of the flaws don't take away from the enjoyment. I absolutely love Star Wars. The new, the old, the good, the "bad". I've loved all of it. I just think it could be a lot better with what seems to be very little additional effort. Just cleaning up some poor dialog, editing, etc that should have been obvious to the filmmakers when they watched a rough cut of the film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 16, 2022, 11:34:50 AM
Maybe I should clarify... Star wars is stupid, silly, flawed and absolutely wonderful. There are honestly very few Star Wars products I don't enjoy, and I think it's because of all that. I can completely suspend reality and the need for things to be 'right' and just have a little escapist fun.


I love it because I don't have to care about accuracy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 16, 2022, 11:43:46 AM
One last issue regarding Reva:  Maybe I am missing the point, but I saw her character motivation a bit differently that some of what was posted above.  I'm not sure her long game was getting revenge on Vader, and that she tamped that down and hid it until she could take advantage.  How I took her character is that she equally hated Vader and the jedi for what happened to her as a child, but that she basically saw revenge against Vade as out of reach, so she embraced the dark side and poured all her hate into revenge against the jedi, but that Obi Wan's conversation with her made her realize that she could perhaps get to Vader after all, so she pivoted and took that perceived opportunity.  Am I off on that?  Maybe I just wasn't paying close attention.

Could totally see that being her angle for sure....seems like it fits what we've seen perfectly. It wasn't until Kenobi manipulated her a bit that she visibly started to consider taking on Vader.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Podaar on June 16, 2022, 04:17:23 PM
What I liked about the episode: The image of Obi-Wan swimming up into the hole at the bottom of the fortress while in the foreground shadows an unspeakably icky, tentacled-creature crawls up the superstructure. The whole tableau reminded me of a Frank Frazetta painting and should be the cover for a badly written Star Wars novel.  :heart
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on June 16, 2022, 06:49:56 PM
So they finally realize it was getting too dark, and THAT bitch is the person they decide to go easy on??  :facepalm: I knew it was too good to be true when Vader was wrecking her.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 16, 2022, 07:52:28 PM
@chad...after seeing your criticisms, all I can say is micromanaging Star Wars never works out well. If you're gonna dig into ever flaw, you're going to have a bad time.

Completely fair point. But I didn’t even think I was “digging” at all.  I felt like the show slapped me across the carafe with it. A couple/few flaws … I can live with. This many though?? And don’t also get me started with how poor the de-aging of Hayden was!  It looked as much like Matt Damon as it did Hayden.

Hey… everything about Star Wars requires a suspension of disbelief. But (and this has come up before) ya can’t also be taken OUT of the world I’m now expected to believe.

All this said, it’s still not the worst thing Star Wars has ever done.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on June 17, 2022, 03:22:30 AM
Did they even apply de-aging? It didn't look like it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Logain Ablar on June 17, 2022, 03:48:09 AM
Did they even apply de-aging? It didn't look like it.

I don't think so. Some guy on youtube even had a go at it, and it looks better than what we got: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxIHXjCC91M

My overall feeling with this show is just frustration. There's a lot of good elements and certainly the potential is there, but they just didn't pull it off. Too many silly things that distracted me and totally disabled my suspension of disbelief.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 17, 2022, 04:30:14 AM
Did they even apply de-aging? It didn't look like it.

I don't think so. Some guy on youtube even had a go at it, and it looks better than what we got: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxIHXjCC91M

My overall feeling with this show is just frustration. There's a lot of good elements and certainly the potential is there, but they just didn't pull it off. Too many silly things that distracted me and totally disabled my suspension of disbelief.

Exactly.  And that YT clip is 10x better than what the show did.  I mean, Ewan looked like 2002-era Ewan, but Hayden looked like he completely skipped the makeup chair, let alone had any AI applied to him.  I honestly thought for the first few seconds of it, his look wasn't much better than video game quality.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on June 17, 2022, 06:31:30 AM
Did they even apply de-aging? It didn't look like it.

I don't think so. Some guy on youtube even had a go at it, and it looks better than what we got: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxIHXjCC91M

My overall feeling with this show is just frustration. There's a lot of good elements and certainly the potential is there, but they just didn't pull it off. Too many silly things that distracted me and totally disabled my suspension of disbelief.

Exactly.  And that YT clip is 10x better than what the show did.  I mean, Ewan looked like 2002-era Ewan, but Hayden looked like he completely skipped the makeup chair, let alone had any AI applied to him.  I honestly thought for the first few seconds of it, his look wasn't much better than video game quality.
Eh, I don't find that clip any better. It's not de-aged, it's just a deepfake using photos of younger Hayden/Anakin.

If anything, I slightly prefer what we got as, minor de-ageing aside, it's present-day Hayden's acting and quite frankly he's much better now than he was back then.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on June 17, 2022, 07:02:19 AM
What we got looked like claymation  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 17, 2022, 07:06:25 AM
I thought it was fine. He didn't look deaged, but it didn't bug me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 17, 2022, 07:48:34 AM
You guys are looking at this all wrong.  The whole show is obviously a dream sequence or somehow otherwise not canon/set in the old pre-Disney Star Wars legacy extended universe.

Once I realized that, I just accept all the bullshit as "doesn't matter" and it is once again fun to watch.  And the duel where Vader kills Obi-Wan in the original film is once more their first meeting since Obi-Wan left Anakin for dead, AS IT SHOULD BE.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 17, 2022, 12:17:19 PM
I thought it was fine. He didn't look deaged, but it didn't bug me.
I noticed, but it didn't bother me either. The deep fake or deaged faces are more distracting IMO.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 17, 2022, 12:59:34 PM
Zero issues with the flashback scene for me. I mean, at some point you have to just decide if you want a weird looking filtered actor or suspend just a little bit of belief and enjoy the scene.

I’ll take what we got over any of the de-aging stuff. Hayden and Ewan looked fine
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 17, 2022, 01:00:29 PM
Zero issues with the flashback scene for me. I mean, at some point you have to just decide if you want a weird looking filtered actor or suspend just a little bit of belief and enjoy the scene.

I’ll take what we got over any of the de-aging stuff. Hayden and Ewan looked fine

Exactly. Both dudes have aged insanely well. So it didn't bug me at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 17, 2022, 07:48:56 PM
I liked this episode but several issues: 1) was the volume of the dialogue way too low for everyone else? I had my volume up at like 2/3 capacity still straining to hear the characters, then the loud blaster effects kicked in at full volume. 2) I hated the little speech that rebel lady who had the detonator gave to Kenobi just before the encounter with the Empire. The whole “I had to kill kids, so then I decided to save them instead” thing seemed totally unnecessary. We knew she was a good guy all along. Why did we need that back story? It seemed manufactured just to give Kenobi a little more emotional attachment when she died. But did it really? 3) The disproportionate ability to wield the force to anything else Vader displays in the other movies. Now, this is the kind of stuff I think he should have been doing with the force all along, but why does he not fight Luke and Obi-Wan in the same manner in the movies? Why does he not grab other ships out of the air to protect the Death Star.

I also thought it was kind of dumb that Reva survived, but it seems like they decided to give her a redemption arc in the final episode. Which is OK I guess.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zantera on June 18, 2022, 12:31:35 AM
I enjoy the show mainly because of Ewan and it was fun to see Hayden again, but I also can't shake that 'why does this show exist?'. I know it exists because they need to draw people to Disney+, Obi-Wan is one of their more popular characters and they could get Ewan. But from a story/character perspective I'm really missing a bigger purpose in this. I would have really liked a 6 episode season with an overarching story of Obi-Wan coming to terms with himself, his past, his part in the Jedi's being wiped off and Anakin becoming Vader. You don't need to make it super dark but you could have more of a focus on the PTSD that would come from that. Say what you want about the prequels but one of the things to take away from them is the arrogance of the Jedi becoming their downfall and if Obi-Wan and Yoda (among others) handled things better, all the Jedi wouldn't have been killed off and Anakin probably could have stayed a good guy.

Instead we get wacky hijinx of him with a child Leia and we're bordering into territory of affecting the movies because in her message to him in A New Hope, it definitely doesn't seem like she knew him and now we have a whole bonding mission together. Not a massive plothole or anything but we don't really need this stuff in my opinion. There also seems to be talk about s2 and you just know if that happens they will bring back Darth Maul for a final confrontation and while that could be fun to watch, again it sorta feels like filler where I wish they could write it more meaningfully.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: King Postwhore on June 18, 2022, 06:30:52 AM
Darth Maul was supposed to be in this season but Ray Park did something in real life that made them resort scenes and took him out of this Season. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 18, 2022, 09:38:34 AM
There has already been a final confrontation between Maul and Kenobi depicted in Cannon. It happened in ‘Rebels’. Timing wise I think it’s in the future (in Kenobi shows current timeline) but it’d make no sense to reshoot that or present it in another fashion as what they gave us in Rebels was perfect.

In fact, Maul couldn’t come in contact with Kenobi at all considering the story they’ve told already in Rebels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zantera on June 18, 2022, 10:24:25 AM
There has already been a final confrontation between Maul and Kenobi depicted in Cannon. It happened in ‘Rebels’. Timing wise I think it’s in the future (in Kenobi shows current timeline) but it’d make no sense to reshoot that or present it in another fashion as what they gave us in Rebels was perfect.

In fact, Maul couldn’t come in contact with Kenobi at all considering the story they’ve told already in Rebels.

You say that yet it seems they did plan on Maul appearing in this to begin with before they changed the script. Honestly I don't think they really care so much about the 'how' if there is a possibility to shove in a character people know and like.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on June 18, 2022, 11:04:14 AM
There has already been a final confrontation between Maul and Kenobi depicted in Cannon. It happened in ‘Rebels’. Timing wise I think it’s in the future (in Kenobi shows current timeline) but it’d make no sense to reshoot that or present it in another fashion as what they gave us in Rebels was perfect.

In fact, Maul couldn’t come in contact with Kenobi at all considering the story they’ve told already in Rebels.

Regardless of whether or not it was already produced in animation as canon, I'm sure there are some fans who wouldn't mind seeing it adapted to live action with Ewan as an older Obi-Wan.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 18, 2022, 01:22:28 PM
There has already been a final confrontation between Maul and Kenobi depicted in Cannon. It happened in ‘Rebels’. Timing wise I think it’s in the future (in Kenobi shows current timeline) but it’d make no sense to reshoot that or present it in another fashion as what they gave us in Rebels was perfect.

In fact, Maul couldn’t come in contact with Kenobi at all considering the story they’ve told already in Rebels.

You say that yet it seems they did plan on Maul appearing in this to begin with before they changed the script. Honestly I don't think they really care so much about the 'how' if there is a possibility to shove in a character people know and like.  :lol

Probably could have pulled it off when he was away from Tatooine. The while thing towards the end of that storyline with Maul and Ezra was that Maul could not find Kenobi and was obsessed with locating him. And, he hasn’t seen him or battled him in years….so…it’d have been interesting to see how they’d have shoehorned that meeting of characters into the story.

With the way the season has went as far as hit and miss writing….I’m not confident it’d have made sense or been handled well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zantera on June 18, 2022, 03:50:41 PM
There has already been a final confrontation between Maul and Kenobi depicted in Cannon. It happened in ‘Rebels’. Timing wise I think it’s in the future (in Kenobi shows current timeline) but it’d make no sense to reshoot that or present it in another fashion as what they gave us in Rebels was perfect.

In fact, Maul couldn’t come in contact with Kenobi at all considering the story they’ve told already in Rebels.

You say that yet it seems they did plan on Maul appearing in this to begin with before they changed the script. Honestly I don't think they really care so much about the 'how' if there is a possibility to shove in a character people know and like.  :lol

Probably could have pulled it off when he was away from Tatooine. The while thing towards the end of that storyline with Maul and Ezra was that Maul could not find Kenobi and was obsessed with locating him. And, he hasn’t seen him or battled him in years….so…it’d have been interesting to see how they’d have shoehorned that meeting of characters into the story.

With the way the season has went as far as hit and miss writing….I’m not confident it’d have made sense or been handled well.

I agree and unfortunately I think the writing is usually what lets these shows down. They figured they wanted to bring back Ewan as Obi-Wan because he's one of the most iconic faces of the franchise and people like him, but to what end? What is the purpose of this mini series? Does this further the story in a meaningful way? Not really, if anything him and Leia having an adventure makes A New Hope slightly awkward when her message plays out like she never met him before. Does this deepen his character in a cool way and feels like it's expanding something that will make us appreciate him more? Not really, at least not so far. They kinda could have done more with him coming to terms with his and Yoda's decisions that resulted in Order 66 and the extinction of the Jedi.

I still enjoy the show and I'm happy they are at least to some extent embracing the prequels as part of the universe, I just kinda wish the writing was a bit better and I feel like they could have done more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ErHaO on June 20, 2022, 02:52:47 PM
I was going to rant about this show but episode 5 did redeem a couple of things for me, I really enjoyed episode 5.

Still, I think this could've been a great Star Wars film instead of a middling streaming series, a large chunk of 2-4 was super boring and had very little to offer.  I actually generally like the overarching plot and what they were going for, but the execution and pacing are bad most of the time.

To my surprise prequel Anakin did not set off any "this is awful" uncanny valley alarms in ny head, which I find impressive given that it is in broad daylight. I can be sensitive for that (Rogue One for example). But he did not look de-aged, which is just weird as that was the intention.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 20, 2022, 03:04:03 PM
I thought prequel Anakin looked like old Hayden Christiansen with some extra makeup. Didn’t occur to me that he might be de-aged. It was kind of weird seeing older Anakin being passed off as younger Anakin, but it seemed fine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on June 22, 2022, 03:30:31 AM
Decent finale. This whole series was kinda meh, but I wanted to see how it ended. Not interested in a Reva series (maybe with a better actor, no matter the color of their skin, just be a good actor!) Nor am I interested in a Princess Leia series, which I'm sure is coming. How many kids would even watch that? What's next? Didn't a few upcoming shows get cancelled?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 22, 2022, 06:15:03 AM
Decent finale. This whole series was kinda meh, but I wanted to see how it ended. Not interested in a Reva series (maybe with a better actor, no matter the color of their skin, just be a good actor!) Nor am I interested in a Princess Leia series, which I'm sure is coming. How many kids would even watch that? What's next? Didn't a few upcoming shows get cancelled?
I liked the finale and the series overall. It was certainly flawed, but it was fun and I enjoyed seeing familiar characters again.

That being said, I think it's time to leave these characters behind, even the new ones that Reva, and forge ahead into the unknown. I fully suspect we'll get an Obi-Wan season 2, and I'll watch, but I'd rather they didn't. I also think we'll get a Reva stand-alone series because Disney will want to stick it to the handful of racist assholes rather than listening to legit criticism of the character (she was not very well written or well acted). While her backstory could be compelling, the character wasn't good enough or liked enough to justify a series. Write a book or a comic or something for those who care. I'm excited most about Taika Watiti's movie since it's something new. And The Acolyte series, which is again something new, but I haven't heard any updates on that so I wouldn't be surprised if it has died.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on June 22, 2022, 08:24:23 AM
Decent finale, wasn't expecting much. Episode 5 was definitely the highlight of the series, if you can say that. Overall incredible waste of potential. I'm all for fan service and don't mind any of it but this show just handled it bizarrely I thought. I think the Reva character was written without much focus, was her motivation to kill Luke purely because he was Vader's son? how would that hurt Vader since he ....doesn't care? I dunno, I try not to let the small things get to me but overall this show was such a letdown because all the things to make it amazing were there.

I think when you know the outcomes already of most of the characters, them being in fights kinda feels useless.

I might rewatch it sometime later to see if I feel different. Right now I'm enjoying Ms.Marvel and The Boys a ton more.




I was quite impressed with Hayden in this entire series, I think all his scenes were great as Vader/Anakin.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on June 22, 2022, 09:36:04 PM
I just do not get all the hate being thrown at Moses Ingram, racist or otherwise. Clearly I am missing something as I had no issues whatsoever with the character or the actor. I just don't get what I am missing. That's all I'm really going to say on the issue.

Anyway, enjoyed the finale and the wrap-up of the story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 22, 2022, 10:44:48 PM
Solid finale……loved the final battle between Vader and Kenobi…..enjoyed the call back and similarities to when Ahsoka did the same thing to Vader in Rebels and he had the same conversation with her…..Yet in lieu of leaving him she was willing to die with him as the temple collapsed as not to abandon him. But loved the display of power Kenobi unleashed on Vader…….really well done after the entire series had built Vader into this monumental pillar of force wielding power.

All in all it was a fun series but certainly not needed and as we’ve thoroughly discussed……has its issues. But I did enjoy it despite some of my criticisms.

Loved the nonchalant appearance of Qui Gon and the even more nonchalant acceptance of him being there by Kenobi.

I’m sure with the success of the series there will be a S2…..hopefully it’s a worthwhile story.



As far as the ‘hate’ being thrown at the Reva character…….I can understand it because I personally didn’t find the character all that appealing……didn’t find her portrayal of the character all that compelling……and think that entire storyline was just a waste of time and effort. Nothing to do with her race……everything to do with it just wasn’t done well and wasn’t needed IMO. Could have accomplished more with limited focus on the real Inquisitors and let them filter into the story as needed and left it at that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on June 23, 2022, 01:39:49 AM
Well that was certainly a show I watched.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ErHaO on June 23, 2022, 04:37:24 AM
It was decent. I thought episode 2-4 were really bad. 1, 5 and 6 were solid enough, but still feel like there was so much missed potential.

Fuck the people that harass Reva's actress and/or dislike her because of her race. Unfortunately I do think the character wasn't really well done. I think it is due to the script and dialouge, it just isn't that good.

Jedi Fallen Order (the game) had a similar character in some ways, called Trilla. And I think the whole inquisition and former padawans growing up/struggling was done vastly superior. And even that story wasn't the best overall. But Jedi Fallen Order had good characters (and good lore) and that made the story enjoyable for me.

And for the amount of trained lightsaber fighters the amount of duels in this 6 hours of Star Wars is way too low.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Logain Ablar on June 23, 2022, 05:21:45 AM
I enjoyed the finale quite a bit. The rematch between Obi Wan and Vader was good, though Vader is really terrible at following through on his kills. That's twice now where he's left people for dead without finishing them off.  :lol

Some random thoughts:

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 23, 2022, 05:27:53 AM
Thought the episode was a fitting conclusion, and they tied up the pieces that would lead in to ANH.  Moses' acting was in fact very good, but the character and dialogue is what the problem was with Reva.  I was interested in 3rd Sister for the first half of the series, but not so much for the last half.  It's impossible for the show to build any real suspense of 'how will this play out', because we know how it will play out - Reva's not gonna kill Luke; Owen/Beru will survive; Vader is going to 'best' Obi-Wan.  Why the show tried to build up some form of suspense was just ridiculous - this is why we need new characters.

My other beef with the finale is how Obi-Wan just turned on his abilities, and then wiped the floor with Vader.  I just didn't buy it.  If you don't use those "muscles" for 10 years, they shouldn't just magically come back in an instant.  I get the message they were trying to go for - the Light side is more powerful than the Dark; love trumps hate; yada yada.  But it was too much all at once - given how he struggled just to give Leia a soft landing, what ... less than a day or two earlier.

Also, space chases are not Star Wars' forte.  Why didn't they dispatch a battalion of Tie Fighters to disable that ship?  Or Obi-Wan's?

All in all though, I thought that was the best episode of the show, but am glad it's over.

P.S.  I would've loved it if the show ended with "Well, hello there".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 23, 2022, 06:35:03 AM
Mixed bag finale. I thought a large majority of it was fine but kind of pointless. As already pointed out, there was no tension. We know Luke will be fine. We know Leia will be fine. We know Ben and Vader will be fine. So I just wasn't terribly invested in any of those "tense" moments. Obi Wan and Vader's fight was....fine, cool if you're looking to see how powerful people are, which I'm usually not. However, the stuff between them that happened once his helmet was messed up was fantastic. That was just a great scene between those two and loved how it was handled. I never saw Rebels, so it being just like a scene from that didn't get in the way for me.

But yea, ultimately a lot of let down. I have no idea what Reva's plan was. Kill the son Vader didn't know about? And now she's redeemed because she spared one kid after killing who knows how many people including children? Don't buy it.

Also the Qui Gon cameo was just silly. Sorry, it was silly.

Ewan really brought it though, and I always enjoyed watching him, and I really enjoyed seeing Hayden when he was visible and acting.

Don't need a season 2, don't need a spinoff of any of these characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on June 23, 2022, 06:40:21 AM
Silliest part for me is that these characters have these "final confrontations" and then leave each other alive constantly. Yes I KNOW they have to be alive at the end, but what's the motivation for Kenobi letting Vader live there?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on June 23, 2022, 06:46:03 AM
I thought that episode six was the best episode and that the Kenobi-Vader duel was awesome. Their interaction once Vader's helmet got blown off was genuinely powerful. I did find it kind of funny how both were so powerful they could hurl mountains at each other. Just a couple of years ago, people were complaining about Rey being overpowered but compared to some of the Force powers we're seeing now, Rey is looking more and more like a merely competent Force user who just happens to look good because everyone else is so weak. :lol

You guys are looking at this all wrong.  The whole show is obviously a dream sequence or somehow otherwise not canon/set in the old pre-Disney Star Wars legacy extended universe.

Once I realized that, I just accept all the bullshit as "doesn't matter" and it is once again fun to watch.  And the duel where Vader kills Obi-Wan in the original film is once more their first meeting since Obi-Wan left Anakin for dead, AS IT SHOULD BE.

I think you may have been kidding a bit here, Hef, but this is basically how I view Star Wars at this point. The original trilogy is the pure Star Wars experience. The prequels I can accept as cannon but still pretty much ignore. The post-Disney era is its own thing that may legally be cannon but I have absolutely no difficulty segregating entirely from the originals. Like at this point, if you can't separate the three eras (original, prequal, and Disney) then OT Darth Vader is no longer one of the most badass villains ever but is instead basically just Dark Helmet from Spaceballs that's being hard carried by epic John Williams music. :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 23, 2022, 07:35:57 AM
However, the stuff between them that happened once his helmet was messed up was fantastic. That was just a great scene between those two and loved how it was handled. I never saw Rebels, so it being just like a scene from that didn't get in the way for me.

That scene was awesome.....so well done. I'm curious as to if maybe in that moment there wasn't just a little bit of Anakin left in there that said the things he said the way he did to allow Kenobi to attain some peace? It was Anakin essentially giving Kenobi a 'gift' and forgiveness so that he'd not just live the rest of his life in regret.


And the Rebels scene didn't / wouldn't have gotten in the way....if anything it made it better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 23, 2022, 08:14:39 AM
  • Ewan is great in the role, and it was nice to see him reprise it.

100% agree. Despite the less than inspired writing.....Ewan nailed the character (again) and made the series (along with Hayden)


  • I don't think Leia should have been in this show at all (as a main character).
Yeah....again....it just comes down to the writing. I didn't mind her being used in the story but I just don't think she was utilized correctly. I think the character was over exposed throughout.....would have rather seen her have the same screen time as the young Luke....there but really not important as we know all we need to know about them.

  • Most Darth Vader scenes very well done. The voice was spot on. There's folks saying that the two of them shouldn't have met again until ANH, but I'm not too bothered by it.

Agreed....all the Vader stuff was pretty well done. I think the only 'flaw' I'd say was present in what we saw was him leaving Reva alive. I think the big wigs at Disney got in the way of that and ruined that whole thing by making them reshoot that scene and not allowing him to kill off Reva....poor choice on their part because that character is dull and will be a waste to do a spin off on her. But, I actually think what we were given between Vader and Kenobi enhances their next meeting. And for those of you who haven't seen this ( https://youtu.be/to2SMng4u1k ) it's a pretty cool fan made extended battle scene from ANH.

  • Reva's story arc was super obvious, so there was no surprise when she couldn't carry out what she was intending to do on Tattooine, and no real tension around it as you already knew the outcome anyway.

Not only was none of her arc a surprise or super obvious....that character simply didn't need to be there. It was forced in to a story that didn't require it and it stuck out like a sore thumb.

  • The Grand Inquisitor was wasted as a character.
  • What happened to the other two inquisitors? They just dropped off the face of the planet, seemingly..

This goes to the Reva storyline issue and why she wasn't needed.......there were/are already 'established' characters in The Grand Inquisitor and his minions that were not only more interesting but more suited for the story. Another example of a horrible 'miss' by Disney to utilize good characters by the lack of solid writing and trying to force a character into a spot where she wasn't needed due to more (in the SW universe) qualified and believable characters already existed.

but what's the motivation for Kenobi letting Vader live there?

That was pretty consistent with his character....especially the one built through the 'Clone Wars' series.

Don't need a season 2, don't need a spinoff of any of these characters.

Please email Disney with this message

My other beef with the finale is how Obi-Wan just turned on his abilities, and then wiped the floor with Vader.

I didn't have an issue with that. Kenobi always was a powerful and mindful Jedi....the motivation he found that 'unlocked' or helped him 'recall' that connection to the Force was believable to me.



Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zantera on June 23, 2022, 09:53:02 AM
I quite enjoyed that finale even if my general thoughts on the show are somewhat mixed. Enjoyed Ewan back as Obi-Wan, did enjoy the fan service cameos (I just knew the final one would happen since episode 1) but like others I have some problems with Leia's importance to the story and also The Third Sister which just felt like filler. I agree that we don't need a second season and definitely don't need spin offs, but I would rather watch Ewan again for a s2 of Obi Wan than sit through another season of Boba Fett. He's just likable in the role.

When Obi-Wan tells Leia about her parents I just imagined him saying "And you hate sand just like your father did" and it made me chuckle.  :lol

But yeah it feels a bit strange to end with Leia and Obi-Wan hugging and her being all like "Take care Obi-Wan you are my friend and I will never forget these adventures we shared" and then 10 years later in A New Hope it's basically "This message is for a Ben Kenobi. You don't know me but you served with my father in the clone wars and I need your help". It's kinda hard to avoid not getting small plot inconsistencies like this when they decide to tell stories in between movies though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on June 23, 2022, 08:30:02 PM
I think it would be rather easy for a good writer who does a bit of research. Just don’t write scenes that contradict what we already know.  :justjen
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: YtseJam on June 24, 2022, 04:52:22 AM
But yeah it feels a bit strange to end with Leia and Obi-Wan hugging and her being all like "Take care Obi-Wan you are my friend and I will never forget these adventures we shared" and then 10 years later in A New Hope it's basically "This message is for a Ben Kenobi. You don't know me but you served with my father in the clone wars and I need your help". It's kinda hard to avoid not getting small plot inconsistencies like this when they decide to tell stories in between movies though.

Yeah but that's not what happens, she says "Ben Kenobi" when Luke breaks her out of her cell. The message she put in R2 says "General Kenobi. Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father's request to you in person, but my ship has fallen under attack, and I'm afraid my mission to bring you to Alderaan has failed. I have placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on June 24, 2022, 05:42:28 AM
seeing that dialogue, the show did as good a job as it could to connect the two stories with that final scene between the Organa's and Obi-Wan.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on June 24, 2022, 06:44:03 AM
I think it would be rather easy for a good writer who does a bit of research. Just don’t write scenes that contradict what we already know.  :justjen

I didn't watch this, so bear this in mind, but I don't think it's that big an ask to stick to the framework.  I know it's Hollywood, and everyone thinks they are an "auteur!" but every once in a while there ought to be a shade of humility.  It's not like the scene in ANH is a minor, throwaway scene - it sets the basis for the first half of the movie, for gosh sakes - and it wasn't shoehorned in later by another creative person, it was created by the creator of the entire SW universe (Lucas).   To conform to that is part of your job.  Be creative and make it work, don't just ignore it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 24, 2022, 08:22:48 AM
For discussion sake.....let's assume they're doing a S2 of Kenobi....because, well....you know they're going to. What would be an 'acceptable' storyline you could buy into? At this point I'd expect them to try to incorporate Yoda somehow being that he too is isolated and there is a lot of leeway there as far as available story they could tell as we really have nothing to go off of cannon wise.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on June 24, 2022, 08:24:39 AM
For discussion sake.....let's assume they're doing a S2 of Kenobi....because, well....you know they're going to. What would be an 'acceptable' storyline you could buy into? At this point I'd expect them to try to incorporate Yoda somehow being that he too is isolated and there is a lot of leeway there as far as available story they could tell as we really have nothing to go off of cannon wise.

Any thoughts?

No Yoda, please.

My thoughts? The whacky adventures of Obi Wan and Dexter Jettster!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 24, 2022, 08:29:57 AM
For discussion sake.....let's assume they're doing a S2 of Kenobi....because, well....you know they're going to. What would be an 'acceptable' storyline you could buy into? At this point I'd expect them to try to incorporate Yoda somehow being that he too is isolated and there is a lot of leeway there as far as available story they could tell as we really have nothing to go off of cannon wise.

Any thoughts?
I don't mind Kenobi speaking with Yoda and having some sort of mission to perform. I just hope it doesn't involve any other existing characters like Leia, Luke, or Vader. I would love to see it evolve our understanding of the Force. Qui Gon, Yoda, Obi Wan all learning more could be cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on June 24, 2022, 08:35:57 AM
For discussion sake.....let's assume they're doing a S2 of Kenobi....because, well....you know they're going to. What would be an 'acceptable' storyline you could buy into? At this point I'd expect them to try to incorporate Yoda somehow being that he too is isolated and there is a lot of leeway there as far as available story they could tell as we really have nothing to go off of cannon wise.

Any thoughts?

I think what they will do is have Obi-Wan fight Darth Vader again and construct a plot to lead to that inevitable conclusion. What I personally hope they do is focus on Obi-Wan specifically and have him venture out into the galaxy for some kind of mission. Does he already know where Yoda is? Perhaps the season could be revolve around him trying to find out and be a full-on investigative story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zantera on June 24, 2022, 09:10:12 AM
I know they have already done Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul in one of the kids shows but that would still be what I would expect from S2. I mean you could do Vader again and I wouldn't be surprised if he appeared but I also know they want to sell the angle of "here's whats new about this season" and a Maul/Obi confrontation would probably get people hyped.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Logain Ablar on June 24, 2022, 09:17:06 AM
Maybe throw in something with a younger Boba Fett? The Colouring Book of Boba Fett?? Sorry, terrible, I know..  :lol

The way things are going in the SW universe, it seems impossible to die, so who's to say that Jango Fett couldn't make a reappearance, his head getting lopped off only a minor inconvenience..

I'm actually looking forward to the Andor series where they shouldn't be burdened with having to shoehorn in existing characters. It would be great to get something fresh and new that stands on its own.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 24, 2022, 09:29:44 AM
I know they have already done Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul in one of the kids shows but that would still be what I would expect from S2.

I think that is a misconception about The Clone Wars and Rebels. Yes, it's animated but they're far from 'kids shows'.  TCW's has some silly episodes, especially in the first season or two....but there is a lot of political backstory....a lot of pretty violent fighting.....and a ton of good character development for Kenobi and Anakin (much better than the three prequel movies)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ErHaO on June 24, 2022, 09:49:11 AM
I might be interested in watching Rebels. I do like the whole inquisition stuff and I am annoyed that Kenobi shows several force users that did fuck all during the season. The inquisitors were cool in Jedi Fallen Order too.

I watched a bit of Clone Wars and it was solid enough, but i have heard that show gets better later on.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 24, 2022, 09:59:36 AM
I might be interested in watching Rebels. I do like the whole inquisition stuff and I am annoyed that Kenobi shows several force users that did fuck all during the season. The inquisitors were cool in Jedi Fallen Order too.

I watched a bit of Clone Wars and it was solid enough, but i have heard that show gets better later on.

I've mentioned it multiple times in this thread....but, if you're a SW fan it's worth the investment to watch those shows. The issue is there's just a ton of episodes. TCW's only gets better as it goes on and IMO Rebels is great from the word 'go' all the way through.

The Inquisitors are definitely more utilized and explored in Rebels.....especially the Grand Inquisitor. Really neat character. And, a lot of the characters and underlying story arc is going to continue in the 'Ahsoka' live action series
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 24, 2022, 10:31:16 PM
On the whole, I give this episode and series two thumbs sideways. Decent fan service, it’s kind of cool to see a souped up souped up Vader do things and all that. The hardest thing with selling a series like this that’s set before another story is the stakes are low. You know Leia, Obi-wan, Vader, and Luke live. You don’t care enough about Reva or the other lady who blew herself up in episode 4. So it all ends up being a bit anti-climactic. Without knowing how it has to end, Obi-wan buried under a ton of rock might have some emotional value. Knowing he was sure to bust out took that away.

In the end, I think this series didn’t have much value beyond fan service, and the way it messes with the continuity with the original series works somewhat against even that. The whole conversation where Vader says “I killed Anakin” had Obi-wan says “then Anakin is already dead,” was kind of the ultimate fan service moment.

The other thing that struck me is how little I liked or cared for Ewan as Obi-wan. I’ve seen only episodes I and III of the prequels, and then only once, and I have no real affinity for that character. The few parts where he seemed to show some spirit and spine were cool, but a lot of the time he was just sort of pouty.

Also, the prequels make it impossible to care about his relationship with Anakin or have any interest in any sort of redemption story arc for Vader. They made him so unlikable in the prequels! When Obi-wan tells Leia at the end how great her dad was, I just rolled my eyes.

One other thing that annoyed me. At the beginning of this episode the star destroyer is chasing the ship, and Obi-wan takes off on his shuttle and they’re like “oh, we can only follow one of the ships, so we’ll let the others get away and focus on Obi-wan.” Then (when Obi-wan miraculously happens to be right by a habitable planet), Vader boards his shuttle and follows him to the planet surface. Um, he couldn’t have chased Obi-wan by himself while the main ship went after the others? They didn’t have any tie fighters they could scramble to shoot the others down? They couldn’t have quickly blown Obi-wan out of the sky and then focused on the others? Also, what is the shield capability of this transport ship that the star destroyer doesn’t just breach it in about 5 minutes? It’s this kind of stuff that was so poorly written into the story. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on June 24, 2022, 10:52:49 PM
Auralnauts have a bunch of these, of varying quality IMO.  But I loved this one, easily my favorite yet.

Weekend at Obi's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDKr0-Llooc)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ErHaO on June 25, 2022, 02:38:55 AM
I might be interested in watching Rebels. I do like the whole inquisition stuff and I am annoyed that Kenobi shows several force users that did fuck all during the season. The inquisitors were cool in Jedi Fallen Order too.

I watched a bit of Clone Wars and it was solid enough, but i have heard that show gets better later on.

I've mentioned it multiple times in this thread....but, if you're a SW fan it's worth the investment to watch those shows. The issue is there's just a ton of episodes. TCW's only gets better as it goes on and IMO Rebels is great from the word 'go' all the way through.

The Inquisitors are definitely more utilized and explored in Rebels.....especially the Grand Inquisitor. Really neat character. And, a lot of the characters and underlying story arc is going to continue in the 'Ahsoka' live action series

Yeah it seems like are many episodes, I am not planning on binge watching it in a short window of time. I have seen some watching guides for Clone Wars where for early seasons they pick the essential episodes to get to the good parts. That worked for me for other series.

I like animated stuff, so that won't be a problem to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on June 25, 2022, 05:28:18 AM
On the whole, I give this episode and series two thumbs sideways. Decent fan service, it’s kind of cool to see a souped up souped up Vader do things and all that. The hardest thing with selling a series like this that’s set before another story is the stakes are low. You know Leia, Obi-wan, Vader, and Luke live. You don’t care enough about Reva or the other lady who blew herself up in episode 4. So it all ends up being a bit anti-climactic. Without knowing how it has to end, Obi-wan buried under a ton of rock might have some emotional value. Knowing he was sure to bust out took that away.

In the end, I think this series didn’t have much value beyond fan service, and the way it messes with the continuity with the original series works somewhat against even that. The whole conversation where Vader says “I killed Anakin” had Obi-wan says “then Anakin is already dead,” was kind of the ultimate fan service moment.

The other thing that struck me is how little I liked or cared for Ewan as Obi-wan. I’ve seen only episodes I and III of the prequels, and then only once, and I have no real affinity for that character. The few parts where he seemed to show some spirit and spine were cool, but a lot of the time he was just sort of pouty.

Also, the prequels make it impossible to care about his relationship with Anakin or have any interest in any sort of redemption story arc for Vader. They made him so unlikable in the prequels! When Obi-wan tells Leia at the end how great her dad was, I just rolled my eyes.

One other thing that annoyed me. At the beginning of this episode the star destroyer is chasing the ship, and Obi-wan takes off on his shuttle and they’re like “oh, we can only follow one of the ships, so we’ll let the others get away and focus on Obi-wan.” Then (when Obi-wan miraculously happens to be right by a habitable planet), Vader boards his shuttle and follows him to the planet surface. Um, he couldn’t have chased Obi-wan by himself while the main ship went after the others? They didn’t have any tie fighters they could scramble to shoot the others down? They couldn’t have quickly blown Obi-wan out of the sky and then focused on the others? Also, what is the shield capability of this transport ship that the star destroyer doesn’t just breach it in about 5 minutes? It’s this kind of stuff that was so poorly written into the story.

You haven’t even seen one of the prequels - why you skipped one I haven’t the faintest - yet you feel qualified to critique the portrayals and relationships and such?? I feel like I’m back in the Van Halen countdown thread.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 25, 2022, 09:05:32 AM
I like animated stuff, so that won't be a problem to me.

The animation method improves throughout the seasons and in the final season the battle between Ahsoka and Maul is all motion capture with real actors....it's really killer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 25, 2022, 09:09:32 AM
On the whole, I give this episode and series two thumbs sideways. Decent fan service, it’s kind of cool to see a souped up souped up Vader do things and all that. The hardest thing with selling a series like this that’s set before another story is the stakes are low. You know Leia, Obi-wan, Vader, and Luke live. You don’t care enough about Reva or the other lady who blew herself up in episode 4. So it all ends up being a bit anti-climactic. Without knowing how it has to end, Obi-wan buried under a ton of rock might have some emotional value. Knowing he was sure to bust out took that away.

In the end, I think this series didn’t have much value beyond fan service, and the way it messes with the continuity with the original series works somewhat against even that. The whole conversation where Vader says “I killed Anakin” had Obi-wan says “then Anakin is already dead,” was kind of the ultimate fan service moment.

The other thing that struck me is how little I liked or cared for Ewan as Obi-wan. I’ve seen only episodes I and III of the prequels, and then only once, and I have no real affinity for that character. The few parts where he seemed to show some spirit and spine were cool, but a lot of the time he was just sort of pouty.

Also, the prequels make it impossible to care about his relationship with Anakin or have any interest in any sort of redemption story arc for Vader. They made him so unlikable in the prequels! When Obi-wan tells Leia at the end how great her dad was, I just rolled my eyes.

One other thing that annoyed me. At the beginning of this episode the star destroyer is chasing the ship, and Obi-wan takes off on his shuttle and they’re like “oh, we can only follow one of the ships, so we’ll let the others get away and focus on Obi-wan.” Then (when Obi-wan miraculously happens to be right by a habitable planet), Vader boards his shuttle and follows him to the planet surface. Um, he couldn’t have chased Obi-wan by himself while the main ship went after the others? They didn’t have any tie fighters they could scramble to shoot the others down? They couldn’t have quickly blown Obi-wan out of the sky and then focused on the others? Also, what is the shield capability of this transport ship that the star destroyer doesn’t just breach it in about 5 minutes? It’s this kind of stuff that was so poorly written into the story.

You haven’t even seen one of the prequels - why you skipped one I haven’t the faintest - yet you feel qualified to critique the portrayals and relationships and such?? I feel like I’m back in the Van Halen countdown thread.

Or any of The Clone Wars to add. Their relationship is fully developed in that show which adds a TON of story and relationship to the two. You make some valid arguments about the Star Destroyer especially but are WAY off base about Kenobi/Anakin. With the lack of background to Kenobi's character that you do have I guess I can see how you'd didn't 'feel'l Ewen....but....Ewen nailed that character and he and Hayden were the bright spots of the series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 25, 2022, 09:20:27 AM
On the whole, I give this episode and series two thumbs sideways. Decent fan service, it’s kind of cool to see a souped up souped up Vader do things and all that. The hardest thing with selling a series like this that’s set before another story is the stakes are low. You know Leia, Obi-wan, Vader, and Luke live. You don’t care enough about Reva or the other lady who blew herself up in episode 4. So it all ends up being a bit anti-climactic. Without knowing how it has to end, Obi-wan buried under a ton of rock might have some emotional value. Knowing he was sure to bust out took that away.

In the end, I think this series didn’t have much value beyond fan service, and the way it messes with the continuity with the original series works somewhat against even that. The whole conversation where Vader says “I killed Anakin” had Obi-wan says “then Anakin is already dead,” was kind of the ultimate fan service moment.

The other thing that struck me is how little I liked or cared for Ewan as Obi-wan. I’ve seen only episodes I and III of the prequels, and then only once, and I have no real affinity for that character. The few parts where he seemed to show some spirit and spine were cool, but a lot of the time he was just sort of pouty.

Also, the prequels make it impossible to care about his relationship with Anakin or have any interest in any sort of redemption story arc for Vader. They made him so unlikable in the prequels! When Obi-wan tells Leia at the end how great her dad was, I just rolled my eyes.

One other thing that annoyed me. At the beginning of this episode the star destroyer is chasing the ship, and Obi-wan takes off on his shuttle and they’re like “oh, we can only follow one of the ships, so we’ll let the others get away and focus on Obi-wan.” Then (when Obi-wan miraculously happens to be right by a habitable planet), Vader boards his shuttle and follows him to the planet surface. Um, he couldn’t have chased Obi-wan by himself while the main ship went after the others? They didn’t have any tie fighters they could scramble to shoot the others down? They couldn’t have quickly blown Obi-wan out of the sky and then focused on the others? Also, what is the shield capability of this transport ship that the star destroyer doesn’t just breach it in about 5 minutes? It’s this kind of stuff that was so poorly written into the story.

You haven’t even seen one of the prequels - why you skipped one I haven’t the faintest - yet you feel qualified to critique the portrayals and relationships and such?? I feel like I’m back in the Van Halen countdown thread.

That’s fair!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zantera on June 25, 2022, 09:21:58 AM
I think it's unfortunate people should have to sit through 100+ episodes of an animated show to 'get' the Obi-Wan/Anakin friendship and that is a big part of the failure of the prequels IMO that you never get a sense of these two being close. In the first movie Obi-Wan sees Anakin as being dangerous and very begrudgingly takes him on as an apprentice at the end only because Qui-Gon wanted it, by the second movie Anakin is already in 'angsty teen' mode and rebels against Obi-Wan. At the start of the third movie we get a little bit of banter/friendship between them - probably because they realized "Oh shit he's turning into Vader in 2 hours and we haven't established that he's a good guy and a friend of Obi-Wan".

With all of that said, I thought that flashback scene of them dueling and talking did a lot to show us that they did have a good relationship in the past. I don't think Hayden is as bad as the reputation he gets - he is bad in the prequels but he's reading bad lines and being given bad directing. I kinda hope we get to see more of him (whether it's flashbacks or something else) because I do think he could redeem himself.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on June 25, 2022, 09:27:45 AM
What I’m mostly trying to say is this series leaned a lot on the prequels in terms of fan service (and I guess maybe on the animated series). To the extent it leaned on the original trilogy, it seemed to kind of mess with the story more than compliment it. If you didn’t like the prequels (or know the animated series), that kind of limits the effectiveness of the fan service.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 25, 2022, 09:43:45 AM
I think it's unfortunate people should have to sit through 100+ episodes of an animated show to 'get' the Obi-Wan/Anakin friendship and that is a big part of the failure of the prequels IMO that you never get a sense of these two being close. In the first movie Obi-Wan sees Anakin as being dangerous and very begrudgingly takes him on as an apprentice at the end only because Qui-Gon wanted it, by the second movie Anakin is already in 'angsty teen' mode and rebels against Obi-Wan. At the start of the third movie we get a little bit of banter/friendship between them - probably because they realized "Oh shit he's turning into Vader in 2 hours and we haven't established that he's a good guy and a friend of Obi-Wan".

Totally agree. There are 133 episodes of TCW's and if I had to 'guess' I'd say 30-40 of those are just throw away episodes.....then there's probably a good dozen that are strictly dedicated to the politics of the time....it's just a chore to work through. But it really is worth it to see the Anakin/Kenobi relationship AND to see Ahsoka grow as a character.

But what's odd and that just fly's in the face of the prequels is the fact that Anakin is WAY more mature and likable in TCW's and also has a Padawan he's training. I've said it before in this thread somewhere but I don't even consider the prequel movies Anakin as 'Anakin'....TCW's Anakin 'IS' Anakin. With that being said....that scene with Kenobi and Vader in this series was so powerful to me (and maybe others who've watched TCW's) with ALL the animated show history and relationship behind it....I'll admit the ol' eyes got misty there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on June 25, 2022, 09:53:58 AM
I think it's unfortunate people should have to sit through 100+ episodes of an animated show to 'get' the Obi-Wan/Anakin friendship and that is a big part of the failure of the prequels IMO that you never get a sense of these two being close. In the first movie Obi-Wan sees Anakin as being dangerous and very begrudgingly takes him on as an apprentice at the end only because Qui-Gon wanted it, by the second movie Anakin is already in 'angsty teen' mode and rebels against Obi-Wan. At the start of the third movie we get a little bit of banter/friendship between them - probably because they realized "Oh shit he's turning into Vader in 2 hours and we haven't established that he's a good guy and a friend of Obi-Wan".
I don't know that anyone has to watch all of Clone Wars, but it's certainly available to dip in and out of. I agree about this being the weakness of the prequels, in and of themselves. I mostly find the prequels ok (and Episode III actually genuinely good overall, despite some flaws), but the biggest issue for me is not seeing partly the relationship but also more generally Anakin being heroic. I'm currently slowly working my way through Clone Wars (in between other things) - the first 2-3 seasons weren't that engaging and I mainly just watched the recommended "essential" arcs, but season 4 and especially 5 have got much more consistently interesting. And more generally I think it does a great job filling in the gaps between the movies.

In terms of the relevance to Obi-Wan Kenobi, this is a TV show as well. So Clone Wars is just as relevant background as the movies were.

Quote
With all of that said, I thought that flashback scene of them dueling and talking did a lot to show us that they did have a good relationship in the past. I don't think Hayden is as bad as the reputation he gets - he is bad in the prequels but he's reading bad lines and being given bad directing. I kinda hope we get to see more of him (whether it's flashbacks or something else) because I do think he could redeem himself.
Yeah and even in the prequels it was only really in Attack of the Clones that he was particularly bad. In fairness, he was really not good in that (but I agree, the writing and directing didn't help).

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 26, 2022, 07:53:23 PM
One of my favorite parts of the series was when Vader's helmet got cracked and there was fragments of Anakin peaking out.

One thing I wasn't sure about is I thought he needed the whole helmet to survive though?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jammindude on June 26, 2022, 08:07:58 PM
One of my favorite parts of the series was when Vader's helmet got cracked and there was fragments of Anakin peaking out.

One thing I wasn't sure about is I thought he needed the whole helmet to survive though?

That’s why you heard him wheezing when half of it was off. He was extremely weak and had to go get a replacement ASAP.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ZirconBlue on June 27, 2022, 10:52:28 AM
During the early episodes, I was joking that Vader's opponents should just hit some of those buttons/switches on his chest and see if he reboots.  I was glad to se Obi-Wan eventually attack Vader's control panel in the final episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on June 28, 2022, 06:49:51 PM
Just noticed D+ has a section on their SW page, Clone Wars Essential Episodes, with select episodes. I'm going in...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 28, 2022, 07:04:08 PM
Just noticed D+ has a section on their SW page, Clone Wars Essential Episodes, with select episodes. I'm going in...

Wow! Haven’t seen that! Such a good idea!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on June 29, 2022, 06:03:17 AM
During the early episodes, I was joking that Vader's opponents should just hit some of those buttons/switches on his chest and see if he reboots.  I was glad to se Obi-Wan eventually attack Vader's control panel in the final episode.

That reminds me of the Triumph The Insult Dog bit where he's interviewing people dressed as Star Wars characters and he asks the dude dressed as Darth Vader if those buttons are how he calls his mom for a ride.  Or something like that.  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on June 29, 2022, 06:11:50 AM
During the early episodes, I was joking that Vader's opponents should just hit some of those buttons/switches on his chest and see if he reboots.  I was glad to se Obi-Wan eventually attack Vader's control panel in the final episode.

That reminds me of the Triumph The Insult Dog bit where he's interviewing people dressed as Star Wars characters and he asks the dude dressed as Darth Vader if those buttons are how he calls his mom for a ride.  Or something like that.  :)
It's one of the best sketch out there and makes me laugh every single time I watch. I get a huge kick out of it even as a Star Wars fan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKT7bx-fmtk&ab_channel=ConanClassic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKT7bx-fmtk&ab_channel=ConanClassic)

My favorite line is the one where he says "that's the last vagina he'll ever see" when referring to the pregnant woman's yet-to-be-born son.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 29, 2022, 07:40:13 AM
Saw a rumor that the Ahsoka series is shooting a live action, shot for shot scene of the dual that Ahsoka had with Vader on Malachor in the "Twilight of the Apprentice" episode in the finale of the second season of Rebels. Personally, I really dislike this idea for a couple reasons. One is, people who haven't seen this in Rebels will immediately think that it's a rip off of the final battle in Kenobi between Vader and Kenobi...when in fact....that scene was a rip off of Twilight of the Apprentice" Second, there's no way they capture the emotion and significance of the original.

I guess I 'get' why they'd consider it being that not everyone has watched Rebels and it was a really awesome moment in SW's lore....but, to me....it's just not appealing at all to see that scene live action. I hate that it'd take away from the original version.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Grappler on August 01, 2022, 08:23:19 PM
Putting this here, though it's more a general Disney+ thing - they just debuted "Light & Magic," a new six-part documentary on the creation of Industrial Light & Magic (ILM) and the first episode or two is about how they filmed the original Star Wars and put ILM together for that specific purpose. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on August 04, 2022, 04:43:35 PM
I enjoyed Obi-Wan more than I thought but honestly, the whole Vader doing everything to chase and destroy Obi-Wan just felt lame. When he turned around a whole Star Destroyer to chase one little ship I laughed so hard.

The whole story arc of Reva was tiring imo, I didn't care much for that. Also, as soon as I saw Kumail I knew he would be the "funnyman" in the show...

It was fun seeing Flea in the show though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 05, 2022, 02:36:27 PM
I enjoyed Obi-Wan more than I thought but honestly, the whole Vader doing everything to chase and destroy Obi-Wan just felt lame. When he turned around a whole Star Destroyer to chase one little ship I laughed so hard.

The whole story arc of Reva was tiring imo, I didn't care much for that. Also, as soon as I saw Kumail I knew he would be the "funnyman" in the show...

It was fun seeing Flea in the show though.

Between the portrayal of Anakin/Vader in the prequels now Anakin/Vader in Obi-Wan, the fear factor of Vader is pretty much gone. As a character, Vader has a lot more depth now than he did originally, but I think Vader was actually a more interesting character when you knew nothing about him back in the OT. I don't have a hard time separating the original cannon from the new cannon, so I still love the OT, but based on new cannon, Vader is basically just a petulant child who continuously gets his butt kicked and fails to live up to his potential. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on August 05, 2022, 05:17:27 PM
I enjoyed Obi-Wan more than I thought but honestly, the whole Vader doing everything to chase and destroy Obi-Wan just felt lame. When he turned around a whole Star Destroyer to chase one little ship I laughed so hard.

The whole story arc of Reva was tiring imo, I didn't care much for that. Also, as soon as I saw Kumail I knew he would be the "funnyman" in the show...

It was fun seeing Flea in the show though.

Between the portrayal of Anakin/Vader in the prequels now Anakin/Vader in Obi-Wan, the fear factor of Vader is pretty much gone. As a character, Vader has a lot more depth now than he did originally, but I think Vader was actually a more interesting character when you knew nothing about him back in the OT. I don't have a hard time separating the original cannon from the new cannon, so I still love the OT, but based on new cannon, Vader is basically just a petulant child who continuously gets his butt kicked and fails to live up to his potential. :lol

Well given there's still another 9 years between Obi-Wan Kenobi (the series) and A New Hope, there's still more they could add to the live action canon that could bring Vader to his menacing status. Seeing him in Rogue One was pretty menacing, IMO, even if he had some cheesy pun lines In that one scene.

There's a lot more to Vader that is canon to SW that isn't live action though, be it comics or animated (Clone Wars/Rebels) that I don't know about, so maybe there's more depth there that lines up with what fans know of him from the OT.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on August 10, 2022, 07:52:57 AM
I enjoyed Obi-Wan more than I thought but honestly, the whole Vader doing everything to chase and destroy Obi-Wan just felt lame. When he turned around a whole Star Destroyer to chase one little ship I laughed so hard.

The whole story arc of Reva was tiring imo, I didn't care much for that. Also, as soon as I saw Kumail I knew he would be the "funnyman" in the show...

It was fun seeing Flea in the show though.

Between the portrayal of Anakin/Vader in the prequels now Anakin/Vader in Obi-Wan, the fear factor of Vader is pretty much gone. As a character, Vader has a lot more depth now than he did originally, but I think Vader was actually a more interesting character when you knew nothing about him back in the OT. I don't have a hard time separating the original cannon from the new cannon, so I still love the OT, but based on new cannon, Vader is basically just a petulant child who continuously gets his butt kicked and fails to live up to his potential. :lol

I'm with you on this.  100%.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on August 10, 2022, 11:39:22 AM
I agree as well, but the continual misspelling of the word "canon" is killing me.  I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 10, 2022, 12:21:37 PM
Ehh....I disagree. First off, Anakin in the prequels is just a small glimpse at Anakin the whole character. He rarely if ever got his butt whipped in TCW's and in fact in S3 Episode 15 defeats an all powerful force user pretty much cementing his place as 'the chosen one'.

Vader was brutal in the Kenobi series....and only lost to Kenobi because of his pride and arrogance much like Maul when he was captured alive by Ahsoka (as she was instructed to do) and then Kenobi again on Tatooine. Maul was more 'powerful' in both instances but his arrogance cost him in each situation. And the point of the final battle scene in Kenobi was to show how powerful Kenobi was as well and that despite Vader being 'stronger' than Kenobi and for all intents and purposes possessing the power to destroy him....that the 'light' side and Kenobi's approach will prevail in those situations and did. Plus, Vader is still struggling to fully embrace himself at that point.

Side Note: It was an utter fail on Disney's part to reshoot the Reva death scene....originally Vader 'brutally murdered' Reva as it was described and Disney got cold feet about the brutality of it and reshot it. My personal opinion on top of that is they feared the backlash the PC crowd would have assuredly orchestrated because a minority, female character would have been brutally killed off. Had they left the scene as originally intended it'd have added to the lore of Vader even more but they wussed out.

As The Letter M points out....there is 9 years left until we all would have seen Vader for the first time and in that time between what I've read in his Comic and just the 'lore' of the character....he reaches his full might. I still think it'd be cool to have an animated series (in the animation style of final season of Clone Wars and Bad Batch) that focused on Vader and detailed that rise to mythology and terror.
 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on August 13, 2022, 05:24:49 PM
Article about the guy who looks after Luke Skywalker's island from The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi:

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62280677

Nice work if you can get it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MirrorMask on August 18, 2022, 09:21:14 AM
Taking my sweet time, I finished Season 2 of The Mandalorian.

I probably enjoyed it even more than season 1 - I liked the "adventure of the week" style, even though you knew there was an overarching main story with Gus Space Fring as the main villain.

Quick question - why is Boba Fett alive? I assume in some of the 543 spinoff content associated with Star Wars there is a story of him managing to get out of the belly of the Sarlacc, but was I actually supposed to know he was alive? I've watched only the main Star Wars movies plus Rogue One and the Han Solo prequel, and season 1 of The Mandalorian, where was I supposed to learn that Boba Fett made it out of the Sarlacc pit?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 18, 2022, 09:54:38 AM
where was I supposed to learn that Boba Fett made it out of the Sarlacc pit?

At that point....you hadn't / haven't learned 'how' he is alive but it is addressed in his stand alone series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MirrorMask on August 18, 2022, 11:34:18 AM
Ah ok, thanks!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on August 18, 2022, 12:38:39 PM
Anyone else watching the ILM documentary on D+? I'm 4 episodes in and find it fascinating. We take for granted now how ground breaking the effects on Star Wars really were.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 19, 2022, 01:22:51 PM
Anyone else watching the ILM documentary on D+? I'm 4 episodes in and find it fascinating. We take for granted now how ground breaking the effects on Star Wars really were.
Just finished it.  Great, great stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on September 10, 2022, 12:09:19 PM
New Mando trailer...


https://twitter.com/i/status/1568661514109997056 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1568661514109997056)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on September 11, 2022, 08:54:53 AM
Looks cool!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 11, 2022, 10:15:39 AM
Looks great. Seeing/hearing that Bo Katan’s storyline is expanded in this. Love that!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on September 21, 2022, 03:40:23 AM
When you've just finished watching The Clone Wars and get an email about your groceries delivery...

(https://i.imgur.com/EP2DtMG.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 21, 2022, 07:12:06 AM
When you've just finished watching The Clone Wars and get an email about your groceries delivery...

(https://i.imgur.com/EP2DtMG.png)

 :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MinistroRaven on September 25, 2022, 12:06:39 PM
Happy birthday Mark Hammil
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MinistroRaven on September 25, 2022, 12:12:58 PM
James Earl Jones is stepping back from voicing #DarthVader

End of an era  :'(
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: YtseJam on September 25, 2022, 05:36:02 PM
Aren't they still going to use his voice? I thought they had recorded his voice for eternity.... PS what's with that andor show? Why isn't it good?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MinistroRaven on September 25, 2022, 06:39:06 PM
Aren't they still going to use his voice? I thought they had recorded his voice for eternity.... PS what's with that andor show? Why isn't it good?

You he signed off the his voice to be used with AI if needed.

There's a thread for the Andor show, and IT IS GOOD. Better than Bobacrap.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 10, 2022, 08:29:48 AM
Studio Ghibli just tweeted this...

https://twitter.com/JP_GHIBLI/status/1590720957676949504?t=EQ_S7xSk26qHZ9oNNtX2VA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/JP_GHIBLI/status/1590720957676949504?t=EQ_S7xSk26qHZ9oNNtX2VA&s=19)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 10, 2022, 08:52:34 AM
That's interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 10, 2022, 08:53:15 AM
Season 2 of Star Wars: Visions I would assume? Or perhaps they'll be doing a full length feature?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 10, 2022, 09:11:05 AM
I'm thinking Visions... A full length we're collectively not worthy of.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 11, 2022, 05:25:03 PM
Zen - Grogu and Dust Bunnies, a hand-drawn animation by Studio Ghibli, is streaming tomorrow
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 09, 2022, 05:32:57 AM
WTF.... couldn't find a Bad Batch thread.  S2 trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R15uYFpeBG0
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 15, 2022, 10:13:28 AM
I started watching Tales of the Jedi.  They're like 20 minutes each, so I watched the first three so far.  Not bad.  Basically backstory we never asked for, but which is nice to have.  The first one, about Ahsoka, was interesting, but the second and third ones together are already pointing us towards something, so that's cool.  Good stuff.  Kinda like the Marvel shorts that accompany the Avengers movies; not required, but some welcome backstory and additional info.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 15, 2022, 10:28:03 AM
I started watching Tales of the Jedi.  They're like 20 minutes each, so I watched the first three so far.  Not bad.  Basically backstory we never asked for, but which is nice to have.  The first one, about Ahsoka, was interesting, but the second and third ones together are already pointing us towards something, so that's cool.  Good stuff.  Kinda like the Marvel shorts that accompany the Avengers movies; not required, but some welcome backstory and additional info.

What I dug about the Ahsoka backstory is although we didn't 'need' to have any further evidence or proof of how she was able to navigate the onslaught of blaster fire from the Troopers who turned on her for Order 66......what they did with the 'training' that Anakin implemented was pretty neat. Then the closing scene tied right in to TCW episode.

And I really dug the backstory on Dooku.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 15, 2022, 11:19:40 AM
Yeah, you could see the wheels turning in Dooku's mind about what's going on.  Subtle, but definitely there, which can be hard to achieve with animation.  Also, I didn't remember that Dooku was Qui-Gon's master, or maybe we didn't even know that before, so that was cool.  Windu's voice actor was pretty good, too.  Not quite SLJ, but pretty close, and you could always use the excuse that it's a younger version of the character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on December 15, 2022, 12:11:53 PM
Yeah, you could see the wheels turning in Dooku's mind about what's going on.  Subtle, but definitely there, which can be hard to achieve with animation.  Also, I didn't remember that Dooku was Qui-Gon's master, or maybe we didn't even know that before, so that was cool.  Windu's voice actor was pretty good, too.  Not quite SLJ, but pretty close, and you could always use the excuse that it's a younger version of the character.

I still need to watch these.  And yes, we did know that Dooku was Qui-Gon's master - he said it directly to Obi-Wan in AotC.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on December 15, 2022, 03:23:00 PM
Ah, I wondered about that.  I've only seen Attack of the Clones once.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 13, 2023, 08:13:56 AM
'Bad Batch' has been fun thus far. Only three episodes in.....the animation is incredible.....story is interesting enough, I like the 'behind the scenes' feel of the story. It's doubtful that whatever the outcome of the story is adds really anything significant to the SW story....I don't know how they'd pull that off....but the little tidbits and easter eggs that they do throw in just bolster the story we already know.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on January 13, 2023, 08:17:21 AM
A new trailer for Mandalorian S3 will be coming on Monday the 16th. Can't wait to see it, and the season in less than two months!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 13, 2023, 08:18:20 AM
'Bad Batch' has been fun thus far. Only three episodes in.....the animation is incredible.....story is interesting enough, I like the 'behind the scenes' feel of the story. It's doubtful that whatever the outcome of the story is adds really anything significant to the SW story....I don't know how they'd pull that off....but the little tidbits and easter eggs that they do throw in just bolster the story we already know.

jingle.son and I are gonna hold off on watching it for a few weeks, and binge a bunch of episodes in a row.  Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: countoftuscany42 on January 16, 2023, 08:04:40 PM
https://youtu.be/Znsa4Deavgg
New trailer  :metal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on January 16, 2023, 08:23:42 PM
Wow!  I may need to re-watch Seasons 1 and 2 to get geared up for this.  And possibly some of The Book of Boba Fett (but maybe not).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 17, 2023, 06:56:10 AM
Wow!  I may need to re-watch Seasons 1 and 2 to get geared up for this.  And possibly some of The Book of Boba Fett (but maybe not).
Just watch the on episode that was basically a Mandalorian episode and you should be fine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on January 17, 2023, 07:37:02 AM
He showed up in Episode 5 ("The Return of the Mandalorian") and I seem to remember that he stuck around until the end.  Maybe not.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 17, 2023, 07:39:36 AM
He showed up in Episode 5 ("The Return of the Mandalorian") and I seem to remember that he stuck around until the end.  Maybe not.
Yeah, he was in the finale as well at least. But I don't think that's as important to rewatch.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 01, 2023, 07:50:50 AM
New episode of The Mandalorian dropped today and I just watched it. Kind of short but a bit to the point. The opening scene was intense and great to see that kind of world building. Over-all an enjoyable first episode back for the series! Not mind-blowing but a good way to re-establish the series before we dive into the deeper episodes.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 01, 2023, 08:09:42 AM
New episode of The Mandalorian dropped today and I just watched it. Kind of short but a bit to the point. The opening scene was intense and great to see that kind of world building. Over-all an enjoyable first episode back for the series! Not mind-blowing but a good way to re-establish the series before we dive into the deeper episodes.

-Marc.

I 'guess' if the story is good this is fine. I know some people don't mind the shorter episodes but I personally think Disney drops the ball on episode lengths. Season premier episodes should be every bit of an hour....maybe even more and subsequent episodes shouldn't be shorter than 45 minutes....I'd prefer 50.

I 'get' that if the episode is telling a story then the length shouldn't be an issue but I just think that the fans are 'owed' a good, solid 45-50 minute episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on March 01, 2023, 10:15:58 AM
Some good things, some just ok things. I think they packed way too many things in such a short episode. The emotional weight of season 2 finale seems to not matter. I kinda wished  they didn't have Mando in the Boba Fett show. Going to watch with my wife again tonight and she's going to be super confused why Grogu is back with Mando with no explanation in the recap. She bailed on the Fett show after 2 episodes and doesn't want to watch it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 01, 2023, 10:30:57 AM
Some good things, some just ok things. I think they packed way too many things in such a short episode. The emotional weight of season 2 finale seems to not matter. I kinda wished  they didn't have Mando in the Boba Fett show. Going to watch with my wife again tonight and she's going to be super confused why Grogu is back with Mando with no explanation in the recap. She bailed on the Fett show after 2 episodes and doesn't want to watch it.

That's fair, but you could literally watch Episodes 5 and 6 of TBOBF and get the jist of why Grogu is with Din again, and AFAIK, those episodes don't really focus on Boba Fett at all (IIRC). It might be a good prelude to season 3, just to see what Din was up to, because it sets up what his arc will be for season three (so far).

But yes, I agree, it was dumb to try and shoe-horn Season 2.5 of The Mandalorian into TBOBF's final episodes.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on March 01, 2023, 01:23:15 PM
NO SQUEEZIE
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 02, 2023, 06:11:38 AM
I still think Boba Fett should have Mandalorian season 3, have some of Mando's story in each episode and have Boba's story a B storyline. They are too intertwined to be considered two different shows.

Decent first episode. Nothing earth shattering and it was a little short. I didn't inherently have a problem with the length. I'd rather they not fill it with fluff just to pump up the length.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Podaar on March 02, 2023, 06:39:38 AM
NO SQUEEZIE

BAD BABY!

This episode was odd. A little like "A day in the life of Din with cute Grogu sounds." It could pay off in further episodes, but it doesn't really need to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on March 02, 2023, 06:45:04 AM
I still think Boba Fett should have Mandalorian season 3, have some of Mando's story in each episode and have Boba's story a B storyline. They are too intertwined to be considered two different shows.
Agreed. But fundamentally I just didn't think there was enough content in Boba's story to warrant being a separate show, and so it always felt like it was dragging. The Mandalorian is a slow-paced show, but what's going on is always more compelling and it works wonderfully (for me, I get some people prefer a quicker pace in general). And then to also include essential parts of Din's and Grogu's story was pretty odd, and then to not (as far as I remember) even include those in the "previously" section at the start of the episode was really weird.

Still, I liked the episode a lot, and it did a great job of setting up where the characters are now and the (initial) direction of their upcoming story arc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 02, 2023, 07:09:29 AM
So the last we saw of The Armorer and Paz Vizsla, they were the only two left of the old group.  This episode started with them and a number of others, initiating someone into The Way.  We thought maybe it was a flashback to when Din Djarin was first initiated, but they he came zooming in in his spiffy new ship.  So who were all those others?  Mandolorians from different groups, I guess, since they had different colors on the armor?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 02, 2023, 07:14:10 AM
Serviceable enough season opener I suppose. It definitely set things in motion as far as laying some foundation but all in all it was relatively 'boring'  IMO. I love the show, and think that may have been one of the more 'duds' of the series honestly.

The dog fight in space was cool. Showed off some of Mando's skill as a pilot so I dug that. I thought the beast battle at the beginning was lame though. The moment all those Mandalorians shot their little grapple hook lines into that massive beast was just  :facepalm:   For supposedly being these hardened and crafty warriors that was a tactic that never had a chance and demonstrated that those that tried it were idiots. In fact, staying on the beach line and fighting that thing was just dumb. Hide the kids and take shelter....take to the sky and let the thing saunter back off into the lake. Anyway.....

I'm still a huge fan of the show....have high hopes for it especially considering Favreau's comments that this show and Ahsoka are essentially going to be building and leading into each other.....so, I'm looking forward to this season but was a bit underwhelmed by Ep. 1
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 02, 2023, 08:25:48 AM
Agreed... their strategies and tactics against that 'gator were dubious at best.  Toss the fucking grenades down it's throat, ffs.  Nah - let's put them on its armored shell!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on March 02, 2023, 08:48:35 AM
So the last we saw of The Armorer and Paz Vizsla, they were the only two left of the old group.  This episode started with them and a number of others, initiating someone into The Way.  We thought maybe it was a flashback to when Din Djarin was first initiated, but they he came zooming in in his spiffy new ship.  So who were all those others?  Mandolorians from different groups, I guess, since they had different colors on the armor?

I was 100% positive it was a flashback. I was kind of let down when he came in to save the day.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 02, 2023, 09:28:38 AM
So the last we saw of The Armorer and Paz Vizsla, they were the only two left of the old group.  This episode started with them and a number of others, initiating someone into The Way.  We thought maybe it was a flashback to when Din Djarin was first initiated, but they he came zooming in in his spiffy new ship.  So who were all those others?  Mandolorians from different groups, I guess, since they had different colors on the armor?

I was 100% positive it was a flashback. I was kind of let down when he came in to save the day.

It had all the feelz of a flashback... and then in swoops the Naboo fighter.  Oh well
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Samsara on March 02, 2023, 10:05:15 AM
The episode had a long build. Probably for good reason. The set-up was necessary. I will say this. Mando needs another ship. Sleeping in that thing is not the way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 02, 2023, 10:09:48 AM
The episode had a long build. Probably for good reason. The set-up was necessary.

For sure, there was some clear foundational work going on there that will certainly be paid off. I guess I just 'expect' more from a season premiere episode that's all.

Mando needs another ship. Sleeping in that thing is not the way.

Yeah....that thing may 'look' cool but it doesn't seem practical for a guy in his line of work and existence.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 02, 2023, 10:17:59 AM
The new ship is not practical as a home, which the Razor Crest was.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 02, 2023, 04:58:45 PM
Wow, the folks on Reddit are ripping this episode apart.  I thought it was on the weak side, but not a total shitshow IMO.

Yeah, they should've somehow explained how Grogu and Din are back together, or at least include the pertinent scenes from The Book of Boba Fett in the "Previously on...".  But realistically, you shouldn't have to watch 2-3 episodes of a different show to know what's going on in this one.  Tying them together like that might've seemed like a good idea to some, but it was actually kinda dumb.  There are a lot of people who watch The Mandalorian who didn't watch Boba Fett.  Hey, not everyone has time to watch every single thing out there.  But up until this point, I've marveled at how well The Mandalorian has incorporated people and things from other Star Wars properties and not required that you watched them.  I didn't know who Bo-Katan was, but they gave me enough background in this show for it to work.  Even if we somehow didn't know who Luke Skywalker is, all we needed to know was that he's obviously a badass Jedi and he's the one who answered Grogu's call.  Stuff like that.  But at the end of Season 2, this unnamed Jedi took Grogu off to train him, and now he's back, and all we get is a quick line to Greef Karga about how it didn't work out.

That giant crocodile thing was ridiculous.  But no problem, you have a couple dozen of the most fearsome warriors in the galaxy who... whoops, he just ate one.  Ooh, there goes another.  Maybe having this ceremony in the water wasn't such a great idea.  I know... we have jet packs.  Let's put some charges on its back.  You know, the natural plating that's like a foot thick.  Okay, that didn't work...

Also, since it wasn't a flashback, who were all those other Mandalorians?  Other sects, right?  Their armor was different colors and stuff.  So does The Armorer give them shit about taking off their helmets, too?  Din Djarin just saved their asses, and she's still all bent about him taking his helmet off?

Space pirates who for some reason look like Pirates of the Caribbean?  Because that's what all pirates look like, right?

Okay fine, I'll stop.  I guess I hadn't realized how many things there were to criticize until people started listing them all.  Most of them I noticed at the time but let them go because hey, it's Star Wars not Shakespeare and it's just silly fun.  Don't get me wrong; people complaining about this episode do have some legitimate points.  But I still thought it was fun and I'm still in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Realm on March 02, 2023, 05:39:34 PM
Wow, the folks on Reddit are ripping this episode apart.  I thought it was on the weak side, but not a total shitshow IMO.

Yeah, they should've somehow explained how Grogu and Din are back together, or at least include the pertinent scenes from The Book of Boba Fett in the "Previously on...".  But realistically, you shouldn't have to watch 2-3 episodes of a different show to know what's going on in this one.  Tying them together like that might've seemed like a good idea to some, but it was actually kinda dumb.  There are a lot of people who watch The Mandalorian who didn't watch Boba Fett.  Hey, not everyone has time to watch every single thing out there.  But up until this point, I've marveled at how well The Mandalorian has incorporated people and things from other Star Wars properties and not required that you watched them.  I didn't know who Bo-Katan was, but they gave me enough background in this show for it to work.  Even if we somehow didn't know who Luke Skywalker is, all we needed to know was that he's obviously a badass Jedi and he's the one who answered Grogu's call.  Stuff like that.  But at the end of Season 2, this unnamed Jedi took Grogu off to train him, and now he's back, and all we get is a quick line to Greef Karga about how it didn't work out.

That giant crocodile thing was ridiculous.  But no problem, you have a couple dozen of the most fearsome warriors in the galaxy who... whoops, he just ate one.  Ooh, there goes another.  Maybe having this ceremony in the water wasn't such a great idea.  I know... we have jet packs.  Let's put some charges on its back.  You know, the natural plating that's like a foot thick.  Okay, that didn't work...

Also, since it wasn't a flashback, who were all those other Mandalorians?  Other sects, right?  Their armor was different colors and stuff.  So does The Armorer give them shit about taking off their helmets, too?  Din Djarin just saved their asses, and she's still all bent about him taking his helmet off?

Space pirates who for some reason look like Pirates of the Caribbean?  Because that's what all pirates look like, right?

Okay fine, I'll stop.  I guess I hadn't realized how many things there were to criticize until people started listing them all.  Most of them I noticed at the time but let them go because hey, it's Star Wars not Shakespeare and it's just silly fun.  Don't get me wrong; people complaining about this episode do have some legitimate points.  But I still thought it was fun and I'm still in.

All very valid points!

Including a huge part of Mando's story in the Book of Boba Fett has to be one of the strangest decisions in the history of television. That was/is so bizarre! One second the show is about Boba Fett, the next it is Mando season 3? And then the real Mando season 3 just continues on from that story...???

The show is obviously catering to a younger audience. If I was 13 I would have loved the opening battle with the giant crocodile and not at all thought about the flaws.

Also, you left out the tiny mechanic creatures fixing the droid that only existed for light comic relief and the 'cuteness' factor for the younger audience.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on March 03, 2023, 01:57:23 AM
Good thing Mando showed up and killed it before it could transform.

(https://www.transformers-universe.com/content/images/Imagemaps/BWTerrogator_Map.jpg)

Yeah, I got "younger audience" vibes from this episode, but it still has the more adult themes going on. Not bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 03, 2023, 06:53:46 AM
Yeah, if you want to nitpick those were all issues. None of them really bothered me all that much. I agree with the issue of Book of Boba Fett containing some pretty major stuff for The Mandalorian. It was widely considered to be The Mandalorian season 2.5, but for those casual Star Wars fans who don't feel the need to watch everything, I can understand how that was confusing. As I stated earlier, they should have just made it season 3 instead of making it it's own show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 03, 2023, 07:56:22 AM
I don't mind that they shoe horned some of Mando's story into TBOBF. It essentially 'saves' them from 'wasting' two or three episodes of S3 doing what they did in that show. Favreau has already said TBOBF helped him 'reset' the Mandalorian and get moving straight away on a fresh new storyline. I do think it should have been covered in the montage at the beginning of the episode though. While I too would assume that near everyone watching The Mandalorian would have watched TBOBF.....I guess that's too large of an assumption.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 03, 2023, 08:11:45 AM
Wow, the folks on Reddit are ripping this episode apart.  I thought it was on the weak side, but not a total shitshow IMO.

Yeah, they should've somehow explained how Grogu and Din are back together, or at least include the pertinent scenes from The Book of Boba Fett in the "Previously on...".  But realistically, you shouldn't have to watch 2-3 episodes of a different show to know what's going on in this one.  Tying them together like that might've seemed like a good idea to some, but it was actually kinda dumb.  There are a lot of people who watch The Mandalorian who didn't watch Boba Fett.  Hey, not everyone has time to watch every single thing out there.  But up until this point, I've marveled at how well The Mandalorian has incorporated people and things from other Star Wars properties and not required that you watched them.  I didn't know who Bo-Katan was, but they gave me enough background in this show for it to work.  Even if we somehow didn't know who Luke Skywalker is, all we needed to know was that he's obviously a badass Jedi and he's the one who answered Grogu's call.  Stuff like that.  But at the end of Season 2, this unnamed Jedi took Grogu off to train him, and now he's back, and all we get is a quick line to Greef Karga about how it didn't work out.

That giant crocodile thing was ridiculous.  But no problem, you have a couple dozen of the most fearsome warriors in the galaxy who... whoops, he just ate one.  Ooh, there goes another.  Maybe having this ceremony in the water wasn't such a great idea.  I know... we have jet packs.  Let's put some charges on its back.  You know, the natural plating that's like a foot thick.  Okay, that didn't work...

Also, since it wasn't a flashback, who were all those other Mandalorians?  Other sects, right?  Their armor was different colors and stuff.  So does The Armorer give them shit about taking off their helmets, too?  Din Djarin just saved their asses, and she's still all bent about him taking his helmet off?

Space pirates who for some reason look like Pirates of the Caribbean?  Because that's what all pirates look like, right?

Okay fine, I'll stop.  I guess I hadn't realized how many things there were to criticize until people started listing them all.  Most of them I noticed at the time but let them go because hey, it's Star Wars not Shakespeare and it's just silly fun.  Don't get me wrong; people complaining about this episode do have some legitimate points.  But I still thought it was fun and I'm still in.
Dang. I haven't seen the episode yet but that's interesting. :corn

I think I mentioned this a few months back, but I do think that Star Wars has a problem right now where people are still treating it like Shakespeare even though it really shouldn't be taken that seriously anymore. The franchise has been a bit of a mess for 20 years now, so if you take it too seriously, you'll be disappointed all the time. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 03, 2023, 08:25:42 AM
Yeah, they should've somehow explained how Grogu and Din are back together, or at least include the pertinent scenes from The Book of Boba Fett in the "Previously on...".  But realistically, you shouldn't have to watch 2-3 episodes of a different show to know what's going on in this one.  Tying them together like that might've seemed like a good idea to some, but it was actually kinda dumb.  There are a lot of people who watch The Mandalorian who didn't watch Boba Fett.  Hey, not everyone has time to watch every single thing out there.  But up until this point, I've marveled at how well The Mandalorian has incorporated people and things from other Star Wars properties and not required that you watched them.  I didn't know who Bo-Katan was, but they gave me enough background in this show for it to work.  Even if we somehow didn't know who Luke Skywalker is, all we needed to know was that he's obviously a badass Jedi and he's the one who answered Grogu's call.  Stuff like that.  But at the end of Season 2, this unnamed Jedi took Grogu off to train him, and now he's back, and all we get is a quick line to Greef Karga about how it didn't work out.
I actually don't get this piece of criticism very much.  Yes, The Mandalorian has presented a lot of pre-existing characters who originated in animated shows in such a way that there is no requirement to have that background knowledge, but the stated intention has been that these modern shows (this, The Book of Boba Fett, the upcoming Ahsoka show, whatever else comes down the pike) are interconnected, which is why these characters are making their live-action debuts (Ashoka) or live-action returns (Fett) in The Mandalorian, to establish that they are connected. 

If people choose not to watch one of them, hey, that's their choice, but you run the risk of missing something.  Just like the Marvel films. 

Not to mention that the reunion of Grogu and Mando was pretty heavily publicized, even if you didn't watch the show.  *shrugs*
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 03, 2023, 08:32:16 AM
Yes, The Mandalorian has presented a lot of pre-existing characters who originated in animated shows in such a way that there is no requirement to have that background knowledge, but the stated intention has been that these modern shows (this, The Book of Boba Fett, the upcoming Ahsoka show, whatever else comes down the pike) are interconnected, which is why these characters are making their live-action debuts (Ashoka) or live-action returns (Fett) in The Mandalorian, to establish that they are connected. 

If people choose not to watch one of them, hey, that's their choice, but you run the risk of missing something.  Just like the Marvel films. 

Not to mention that the reunion of Grogu and Mando was pretty heavily publicized, even if you didn't watch the show.  *shrugs*

This statement and especially the bolded nailed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on March 03, 2023, 10:16:15 AM
The problem is Book of Fett wasn't very good.  I can imagine a lot of people bailed on it long before it turned into Mando 2.5. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 03, 2023, 10:18:54 AM
I'm curious as to if Disney will add to the recap montage given how much blow back they're getting over not showing Grogu's little journey?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 03, 2023, 10:20:53 AM
I'm curious as to if Disney will add to the recap montage given how much blow back they're getting over not showing Grogu's little journey?
Are they getting a lot?  Or are the people giving it to them just loud?

I can't imagine there were a ton of Mando fans who didn't watch Boba Fett or who didn't at least read enough to know about Mando showing up in it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 03, 2023, 10:44:38 AM
I'm curious as to if Disney will add to the recap montage given how much blow back they're getting over not showing Grogu's little journey?
Are they getting a lot?  Or are the people giving it to them just loud?

I can't imagine there were a ton of Mando fans who didn't watch Boba Fett or who didn't at least read enough to know about Mando showing up in it.

I've seen a handful of online articles and a Reddit thread or two that are 'mad'. I'm curious as to if it's really not that big a deal. As you mention and I did as well....I'd think a large portion of Mando viewers also watched TBOBF
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 03, 2023, 12:56:54 PM
We watched it, but it really was pretty weak.  Not just because it followed The Mandalorian, but weak overall.  Poor premise, boring characters, no development, and mostly it just didn't make any sense.  I'm not surprised if a lot of people bailed.  When we did our re-watch last month leading up to Mando Season 3, we watched Mando Seasons 1 and 2, then skipped the first four episodes of Boba Fett and started with The Return of The Mandalorian.

Anyone who has Disney+ presumably has access to the many, many resources telling them that they should at least watch Episodes 5-7 of Boba Fett.  But I still say it was kinda dumb to cross them over so much like that.  Crossing over and interconnecting stories in the same universe are fine.  MCU does it extensively.  But it's always somewhat minor stuff, stuff you could live without but if you caught the reference you get a little extra something out of it.  Not entire plot points and character development.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: orcus116 on March 04, 2023, 11:20:51 AM
As someone who only made it three episodes into Boba Fett before losing interest I was one of the confused ones when Grogu popped back up. Without any explanation it really sucked the impact out of the ending of season two. I understand Grogu is popular but they set the show up to move on from him in a nicely done way and seemingly decided against it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ErHaO on March 04, 2023, 02:24:36 PM
i did not watch Boba Fett because the word of mouth was terrible and there is enough good stuff out there to watch. I was confused and it makes the season 2 ending seem useless.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 04, 2023, 08:25:19 PM
^^

(https://media.tenor.com/YeCYEdRCTvcAAAAd/you-have-nobody-to-blame-but-yourself-harlan-drum.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on March 04, 2023, 08:26:53 PM
Very late to the game but just watched the first episode of Andor.

Really liked it! Excited for the rest.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on March 04, 2023, 08:45:58 PM
Very late to the game but just watched the first episode of Andor.

Really liked it! Excited for the rest.

Nice... It's by far the strongest of the SW shows in my humble opinion, and has excellent writing throughout to appease your overly critical heart.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 04, 2023, 09:29:39 PM
Very late to the game but just watched the first episode of Andor.

Really liked it! Excited for the rest.

If you're interested, there is a dedicated Andor thread here as well.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=57614.0

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on March 05, 2023, 02:07:56 AM
Tough watch.

Didn't IG11 blow up in lava?  I mean I'm an engineer (not a magic space engineer admittedly) and I feel like replacing some wiring probably isn't going to cut it! ..Also this is the only drode Mando trusts....the one that was programmed to kill Baby Yoda, and then tries instantly to do so again when activated. 
It's so dumb they put the actual interesting plot of this show in another (terrible) show, just to reboot Mando back to doing his fetch quest episodes (hopefully it'll be more than this).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ErHaO on March 05, 2023, 04:36:40 PM
^^

(https://media.tenor.com/YeCYEdRCTvcAAAAd/you-have-nobody-to-blame-but-yourself-harlan-drum.gif)

I mean, it is not that much of a stretch that people expect s3 to continue from s3, no?. I most certainly did not know Boba Fett had important plotlines for this show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 06, 2023, 07:56:14 AM
I thought Grogu came back to Mando way too soon. I would have liked it to take until the end of Season 3. For one, so Mando would go on some different types of adventures without a toddler in tow. And second, because I think the emotional impact of their reunion would have been stronger.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 06, 2023, 08:12:55 AM
I thought Grogu came back to Mando way too soon. I would have liked it to take until the end of Season 3. For one, so Mando would go on some different types of adventures without a toddler in tow. And second, because I think the emotional impact of their reunion would have been stronger.

:iagree:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 06, 2023, 09:20:29 PM
Am I the only one who remembers the helmet code in the first season being that he couldn’t remove his helmet in front of another person (or maybe a non Mandalorian), not that he can never ever remove his helmet (which is absurd and impractical)? There was a scene where he needed medical attention and the droid dude took his helmet off, but the idea was it was ok because the droid wasn’t a “person.” I know he also took his helmet off for Grogu, but since BoBF the blacksmith lady has just been saying “have you ever removed your helmet,” and then in the opening scene of Season 3 the kid is supposed to swear never to remove his helmet period (but doesn’t get a chance to before dinocrock shows up).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ZirconBlue on March 07, 2023, 08:13:25 AM
I think the rule has always been stated to be "never remove your helmet", but we learned from previous interactions that it really means "never remove your helmet in the presence of others". 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 07, 2023, 09:22:44 AM
I think the rule has always been stated to be "never remove your helmet", but we learned from previous interactions that it really means "never remove your helmet in the presence of others". 
I always felt the "in the presence of others" was implied. Clearly they need to eat, drink, shave, cut hair, bathe, etc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 07, 2023, 11:28:45 AM
It’s just such a ridonkulous code. What if your helmet breaks? What if you grow out of your helmet? What if someone forcibly removes it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 07, 2023, 11:57:12 AM
It’s just such a ridonkulous code. What if your helmet breaks? What if you grow out of your helmet? What if someone forcibly removes it?

Then you don't deserve to be a Mandolorian!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 07, 2023, 12:17:52 PM
It’s just such a ridonkulous code. What if your helmet breaks? What if you grow out of your helmet? What if someone forcibly removes it?

Then you don't deserve to be a Mandolorian!

This is the way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 07, 2023, 12:47:47 PM
It’s just such a ridonkulous code. What if your helmet breaks? What if you grow out of your helmet? What if someone forcibly removes it?

Then you don't deserve to be a Mandolorian!

This is the way.

This is the way.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 07, 2023, 01:14:27 PM
It’s just such a ridonkulous code. What if your helmet breaks? What if you grow out of your helmet? What if someone forcibly removes it?

Then you don't deserve to be a Mandolorian!

This is the way.

This is the way.

-Marcolorian

Fix'd
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on March 07, 2023, 05:48:27 PM
Speculation  (https://variety.com/2023/film/news/star-wars-kevin-feige-patty-jenkins-movies-shelved-1235545774/)abound that the Kevin Fiege and Patty Jenkins Star Wars movies are to be scrapped. Don't know what slate of movies are actually planned and set for release. They seemed to have announced a bunch of shows and movies and now they all seems to be in limbo.

Quote
Meanwhile, Variety has learned that a possible “Star Wars” feature produced by Marvel Studios chief Kevin Feige is also no longer in active development at Lucasfilm.
Quote
In December 2020, Lucasfilm chief Kathleen Kennedy announced that “Wonder Woman” helmer Patty Jenkins would direct the next “Star Wars” movie, the one-off adventure “Rogue Squadron.” But in September 2022, Disney pulled the title from its scheduled December 2023 release, and sources with knowledge of the production say it is no longer in active development at the studio

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 08, 2023, 06:36:59 AM
The news about the Jenkins film doesn't surprise me.

The news about the Feige film doesn't surprise me all that much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 08, 2023, 06:43:47 AM
I'm not surprised either. And frankly I hope they don't announce projects in the future until they are a little farther along, like having a script in place at a minimum.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on March 08, 2023, 07:28:35 AM
So Mando episode 2 was much better and intriguing, minor nitpicks aside with regards to the action the whole episode was fun.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 08, 2023, 07:40:25 AM
The news about the Jenkins film doesn't surprise me.

The news about the Feige film doesn't surprise me all that much.

Yep. Honestly, while I don't want them to use some scrub off the streets I'd prefer them to go with some 'lesser' known talent that has been producing good stuff. Honestly, with how good 'Andor' and 'R1' was/is I'd ask Tony Gilroy to at minimum write me a movie or trilogy or whatever....then convince/pay him to direct it. Let him helm tell an 'old republic' story. You could have all the good bits....political theater, subterfuge.....sith/jedi. Or get someone like Michael Mann, Denis Villeneuve....maybe entice Christopher Nolan? Point is....Disney has the money to motivate any director/writer out there to undertake the challenge. They need to buck up AND turn over the reigns to a fresh take creatively and turn the page on doing things the 'safe' way and craft a new future for the SW world.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 08, 2023, 08:16:44 AM
So Mando episode 2 was much better and intriguing, minor nitpicks aside with regards to the action the whole episode was fun.

Agreed, I enjoyed this quite a bit more. It was much more focused and had some great world-building in it. I didn't expect to see Bo-Katan again so soon but I welcome their return! Also, a few fun Grogu moments as well!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 08, 2023, 08:17:59 AM
The news about the Jenkins film doesn't surprise me.

The news about the Feige film doesn't surprise me all that much.

Yep. Honestly, while I don't want them to use some scrub off the streets I'd prefer them to go with some 'lesser' known talent that has been producing good stuff. Honestly, with how good 'Andor' and 'R1' was/is I'd ask Tony Gilroy to at minimum write me a movie or trilogy or whatever....then convince/pay him to direct it. Let him helm tell an 'old republic' story. You could have all the good bits....political theater, subterfuge.....sith/jedi. Or get someone like Michael Mann, Denis Villeneuve....maybe entice Christopher Nolan? Point is....Disney has the money to motivate any director/writer out there to undertake the challenge. They need to buck up AND turn over the reigns to a fresh take creatively and turn the page on doing things the 'safe' way and craft a new future for the SW world.
I think Lucasfilm should have a book of rules for the Star Wars universe (Jedi have certain powers, Yoda's species and home world cannot be explored, Anakin hates sand, etc) and changing those rules would need approval by Lucasfilm brass. But otherwise they should give free reign to writers/directors to tell the story they want to tell. Particularly when it only involves new characters.

I'm with you on Tony Gilroy. He clearly "gets" Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on March 08, 2023, 08:21:35 AM
The news about the Jenkins film doesn't surprise me.

The news about the Feige film doesn't surprise me all that much.

Yep. Honestly, while I don't want them to use some scrub off the streets I'd prefer them to go with some 'lesser' known talent that has been producing good stuff. Honestly, with how good 'Andor' and 'R1' was/is I'd ask Tony Gilroy to at minimum write me a movie or trilogy or whatever....then convince/pay him to direct it. Let him helm tell an 'old republic' story. You could have all the good bits....political theater, subterfuge.....sith/jedi. Or get someone like Michael Mann, Denis Villeneuve....maybe entice Christopher Nolan? Point is....Disney has the money to motivate any director/writer out there to undertake the challenge. They need to buck up AND turn over the reigns to a fresh take creatively and turn the page on doing things the 'safe' way and craft a new future for the SW world.

Agreed about Tony Gilroy, his work on the Star Wars universe has been my favorite in the Disney owned era. I don't mind the JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson movies and of course, Mando has been great with Favreau and Filoni but they've had some inconsistencies whereas Gilroy has nailed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 08, 2023, 08:46:30 PM
That was great!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on March 09, 2023, 05:17:45 AM
Better than episode 1.  But I found it rather repetitive with random bad guys being random.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 09, 2023, 07:52:08 AM
I dug the episode a lot.....but primarily because Bo Katan is a favorite of mine (as well as Katie Sackoff) so I'll take as much of that character as I can. While we know that Din can handle himself and is a skilled fighter/warrior I liked how this episode subtly showed that Bo Katan is just as skilled, and IMO actually demonstrated that she's even a more skilled warrior than Din. I liked the contrast in ability to wield the Dark Saber as well. Din is clunky and haphazard while when Bo Katan used it she looked 'jedi' like with it. Clearly more suited to use it as she has the history with it and confidence to use it.

with random bad guys being random.

Ehh.....that wasn't an issue at all. They're cave dwelling creatures that use ambush techniques to hunt. Not really all that random at all. I think they used those two conflicts well to show the difference in how Din and Bo Katan handled them. Both were victorious but one had a much easier time defeating them.

Anyway....really liked the episode and liked the Mythosaur reveal at the end also. Looks like they'll use that to alter Bo Katan's approach and thought process moving forward.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 10, 2023, 08:22:58 PM
Really enjoyed episode 2, even if it’s a bit of a tried and true Mando episode (visit some new planet, explore some dark dangerous place, run into some spiders or a large monster or both, wiggle out of a dangerous situation with some luck and Jedi-ness, etc.). But that’s what I watch this for. It was a good time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 11, 2023, 01:20:05 PM
Sounds about right.  It was a bit by-the-numbers, but it was fun.  Plus we learned some new stuff, saw some new things.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 11, 2023, 09:09:17 PM
Do we think Bo Karan and blacksmith lady are related somehow? Katan said her family used to rule Mandelor. I wonder how blacksmith lady came to be in charge.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 12, 2023, 08:24:49 AM
Do we think Bo Karan and blacksmith lady are related somehow? Katan said her family used to rule Mandelor. I wonder how blacksmith lady came to be in charge.
Blacksmith lady isn't in charge. She may be the leader of her clan, but not all of Mandalore.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 12, 2023, 09:01:04 AM
Do we think Bo Karan and blacksmith lady are related somehow? Katan said her family used to rule Mandelor. I wonder how blacksmith lady came to be in charge.
Blacksmith lady isn't in charge. She may be the leader of her clan, but not all of Mandalore.

Yeah…..the Armorer is just the leader of ‘that’ particular little sect and is recruiting. I believe that Bo Karan mentioned they splintered off from the Death Watch?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 12, 2023, 03:29:37 PM
Do we think Bo Karan and blacksmith lady are related somehow? Katan said her family used to rule Mandelor. I wonder how blacksmith lady came to be in charge.
Blacksmith lady isn't in charge. She may be the leader of her clan, but not all of Mandalore.

Yeah…..the Armorer is just the leader of ‘that’ particular little sect and is recruiting. I believe that Bo Karan mentioned they splintered off from the Death Watch?

Seeing "Bo Karan" makes me think she wants to go to the Empire and ask to see their Manager.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 12, 2023, 04:00:05 PM
Do we think Bo Karan and blacksmith lady are related somehow? Katan said her family used to rule Mandelor. I wonder how blacksmith lady came to be in charge.
Blacksmith lady isn't in charge. She may be the leader of her clan, but not all of Mandalore.

Yeah…..the Armorer is just the leader of ‘that’ particular little sect and is recruiting. I believe that Bo Karan mentioned they splintered off from the Death Watch?

Seeing "Bo Karan" makes me think she wants to go to the Empire and ask to see their Manager.

-Marc.

LOL, blaming auto correct, but she is sort of a Karen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 13, 2023, 10:08:13 AM
I've been watching through all the Star Wars movies with my son, in order of release. We just watched Revenge of the Sith yesterday. While clearly the best movie of the prequel trilogy, I am kind of annoyed that the main reason Anakin turned to the dark side was obsessive love for Padme. I wish it were more about how the Jedi order and code was failing the galaxy. The reasons why Dukuu turned, which I thought were actually quite relatable. I think the way Palpatine played Anakin to think the Jedi were taking over was good and could have been expanded on. Some more time between Anakin stopping Windu's attack and his attack on the Jedi temple would have made sense too. I feel like that would have needed more time to poison Anakin's thoughts, or maybe a little more set-up going into it. Too much dumb CGI in the final Anakin/Obi-Wan battle as well. Just fight on some rocks near lava.

Just a little frustrating, because it is a good movie, but it could have been a great movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 13, 2023, 10:11:49 AM
I've been watching through all the Star Wars movies with my son, in order of release. We just watched Revenge of the Sith yesterday. While clearly the best movie of the prequel trilogy, I am kind of annoyed that the main reason Anakin turned to the dark side was obsessive love for Padme. I wish it were more about how the Jedi order and code was failing the galaxy. The reasons why Dukuu turned, which I thought were actually quite relatable. I think the way Palpatine played Anakin to think the Jedi were taking over was good and could have been expanded on. Some more time between Anakin stopping Windu's attack and his attack on the Jedi temple would have made sense too. I feel like that would have needed more time to poison Anakin's thoughts, or maybe a little more set-up going into it. Too much dumb CGI in the final Anakin/Obi-Wan battle as well. Just fight on some rocks near lava.

Just a little frustrating, because it is a good movie, but it could have been a great movie.

The Clone Wars animated series goes way more in to Anakins turn to the dark side. It very much aligns with Dooki’s turn and is more involved than his love for Padme. While it’s a chore and 20% of the episodes are ‘throw always’……TCW’s and ‘Rebels’ my opinion are ‘must watch’ series to fully appreciate the SW universe….especially when it comes to Anakin.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 13, 2023, 01:34:17 PM
I've been watching through all the Star Wars movies with my son, in order of release. We just watched Revenge of the Sith yesterday. While clearly the best movie of the prequel trilogy, I am kind of annoyed that the main reason Anakin turned to the dark side was obsessive love for Padme. I wish it were more about how the Jedi order and code was failing the galaxy. The reasons why Dukuu turned, which I thought were actually quite relatable. I think the way Palpatine played Anakin to think the Jedi were taking over was good and could have been expanded on. Some more time between Anakin stopping Windu's attack and his attack on the Jedi temple would have made sense too. I feel like that would have needed more time to poison Anakin's thoughts, or maybe a little more set-up going into it. Too much dumb CGI in the final Anakin/Obi-Wan battle as well. Just fight on some rocks near lava.

Just a little frustrating, because it is a good movie, but it could have been a great movie.

The Clone Wars animated series goes way more in to Anakins turn to the dark side. It very much aligns with Dooki’s turn and is more involved than his love for Padme. While it’s a chore and 20% of the episodes are ‘throw always’……TCW’s and ‘Rebels’ my opinion are ‘must watch’ series to fully appreciate the SW universe….especially when it comes to Anakin.
I've watched all the animated stuff. Though with varying degrees on attention being paid to it. But given that 90% of people watching the movies won't be watching the animated series, and since most if not all of it came out after ROTS, I think that doesn't really excuse the movie falling short. The movie would have been better if it had delved into that stuff more, IMO. But it is nice that those stories have been expanded.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 13, 2023, 01:41:25 PM
I've been watching through all the Star Wars movies with my son, in order of release. We just watched Revenge of the Sith yesterday. While clearly the best movie of the prequel trilogy, I am kind of annoyed that the main reason Anakin turned to the dark side was obsessive love for Padme. I wish it were more about how the Jedi order and code was failing the galaxy. The reasons why Dukuu turned, which I thought were actually quite relatable. I think the way Palpatine played Anakin to think the Jedi were taking over was good and could have been expanded on. Some more time between Anakin stopping Windu's attack and his attack on the Jedi temple would have made sense too. I feel like that would have needed more time to poison Anakin's thoughts, or maybe a little more set-up going into it. Too much dumb CGI in the final Anakin/Obi-Wan battle as well. Just fight on some rocks near lava.

Just a little frustrating, because it is a good movie, but it could have been a great movie.

The Clone Wars animated series goes way more in to Anakins turn to the dark side. It very much aligns with Dooki’s turn and is more involved than his love for Padme. While it’s a chore and 20% of the episodes are ‘throw always’……TCW’s and ‘Rebels’ my opinion are ‘must watch’ series to fully appreciate the SW universe….especially when it comes to Anakin.
I've watched all the animated stuff. Though with varying degrees on attention being paid to it. But given that 90% of people watching the movies won't be watching the animated series, and since most if not all of it came out after ROTS, I think that doesn't really excuse the movie falling short. The movie would have been better if it had delved into that stuff more, IMO. But it is nice that those stories have been expanded.

Agreed. The movies were atrocious and lackluster in the effort to show Anakins descent into darkness. Pretty lazy and lame. I appreciated the expansion of his story and the slow burn of his eventual turn to the dark side in TCW’s. I ‘get’ that a certain contingent of SW fan won’t invest the time into watching the couple animated series out there that fill in the gaps and add so much more depth and context to the story…..but….it’s a more complete and interesting story when you watch it all. So, for me…..if you proclaim yourself to be a huge SW fan (not you specifically…..the proverbial ‘you’) then not only would I assume you’ve watched all the content available in the SW universe….I’d expect it from anyone who would be critical of the SW universe
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on March 15, 2023, 10:27:37 AM
Episode 3 had a very Andor vibe to it. Bulk of the episode was that in fact. I liked it though in my head I don't know if this is a typical Mandalorian episode. I did enjoy the beginning fighter chase, wished we got more info on the reason behind the appearance of the Tie fighters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 15, 2023, 08:05:38 PM
Episode 3 had a very Andor vibe to it. Bulk of the episode was that in fact. I liked it though in my head I don't know if this is a typical Mandalorian episode. I did enjoy the beginning fighter chase, wished we got more info on the reason behind the appearance of the Tie fighters.

Didn't Bo-Katan say it was because she stole her ship from an Imperial Warlord? I would guess they finally tracked the ship down and wanted revenge.

This episode was not at all what I expected, and I liked that. It definitely looked like they reused some sets from the Andor filming, notably the Amnesty Housing and the office area/cubicles. I *love* getting to see more of Coruscant and seeing the highest mountain be just a tiny monument really puts into perspective just how big the city-planet really is!

I wasn't sure how I felt about the whole Pershing/Kane story until the very end with the twist, and then I got super intrigued. Like, what's her real deal, and will Pershing be okay? I'm curious to see how their stories end up tying into what Din is going through, if at all.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 15, 2023, 08:20:42 PM
I nearly fell asleep during the Coruscant segment. I assume there will be a point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on March 15, 2023, 09:10:06 PM
Episode 3 had a very Andor vibe to it. Bulk of the episode was that in fact. I liked it though in my head I don't know if this is a typical Mandalorian episode. I did enjoy the beginning fighter chase, wished we got more info on the reason behind the appearance of the Tie fighters.

Didn't Bo-Katan say it was because she stole her ship from an Imperial Warlord? I would guess they finally tracked the ship down and wanted revenge.



You are correct, I missed that part when I first watched it. Saw it again with my wife and picked up on it. On second watch I really dug the aesthetics of the sets. I too am curious how it all ties in together. But so far season 3 has been really all over the place with the tone and story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 15, 2023, 09:36:33 PM
I dig the episode….I’m assuming that Chic officer is still working for/with Moff Gideon and they’re either going scorched earth in the folks who knew him or getting revenge somehow on them?

And, I’m going to be pissed if they hide Katie Sackoffs pretty face the rest of the season  >:(
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 15, 2023, 09:44:49 PM
And, I’m going to be pissed if they hide Katie Sackoffs pretty face the rest of the season  >:(

This Is The Way.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on March 16, 2023, 03:09:03 AM
Went to watch it but something was wrong with my Disney+.  About 10 minutes into the episode it started playing something else entirely.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on March 16, 2023, 04:27:36 AM
Went to watch it but something was wrong with my Disney+.  About 10 minutes into the episode it started playing something else entirely.
Har har.

I loved the Dr Pershing stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 16, 2023, 04:44:59 AM
And, I’m going to be pissed if they hide Katie Sackoffs pretty face the rest of the season  >:(

This Is The Way.

-Marc.

This is the way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 16, 2023, 07:03:24 AM
I thought the Dr. Pershing stuff was somewhat interesting.  A little world-building, a la Andor.  I didn't trust Kane at all, and of course it turns out that they betrayed him.  But why?  And how will it tie back into the main story?

I'm glad Din is back with the covert for now.  Paz Vizsla is still a dick.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 16, 2023, 07:17:07 AM
I thought the Dr. Pershing stuff was somewhat interesting.  A little world-building, a la Andor.  I didn't trust Kane at all, and of course it turns out that they betrayed him.  But why?  And how will it tie back into the main story?

I'm glad Din is back with the covert for now. Paz Vizsla is still a dick.

Even though he's wearing his helmet, you could feel the daggers from his eyes towards Bo. I'm not at all privy to the greater history of the Mandalorian clans and houses, but I feel like there's some tension between House Vizsla and House Kryze.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on March 16, 2023, 07:47:43 AM
I thought the Dr. Pershing stuff was somewhat interesting.  A little world-building, a la Andor.  I didn't trust Kane at all, and of course it turns out that they betrayed him.  But why?  And how will it tie back into the main story?

I'm glad Din is back with the covert for now. Paz Vizsla is still a dick.

Even though he's wearing his helmet, you could feel the daggers from his eyes towards Bo. I'm not at all privy to the greater history of the Mandalorian clans and houses, but I feel like there's some tension between House Vizsla and House Kryze.

-Marc.
There is, but they've also been allies. Pre Vizsla was leader of the Death Watch which Bo-Katan was part of - they were basically a terrorist group that disagreed with Mandalore's pacifist government (led by Bo-Katan's sister). They went... rather off the rails, let's say, Pre Vizsla worked with Darth Maul to overthrow the Mandalorian government, tried to betray him and ended up getting killed. Bo-Katan left the group and did her own thing instead, and eventually (after the Empire came and took over) Clan Vizsla was one of those that rallied behind her.

I don't think the show has said anything about Paz Vizsla's background. Not sure if the history of the clans is particularly pertinent, or if his disdain for Bo-Katan is driven more by 1. him being part of the orthodox sect and her having no interest in that, and/or 2. her allying with Din who defeated him when he tried to challenge for the darksaber.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 16, 2023, 10:06:15 AM
During the Boba Fett episodes (Mandolorian Season 2.5), The Armorer was telling Din some of the history of the Dark Sabre and Clan Vizsla.  I don't remember it because it was confusing, but I figured a fuller backstory was in one of the animated shows if I wanted to dig into it more.  But Vizsla's connection to the Dark Sabre and Clan Kryze has been mentioned.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 17, 2023, 07:12:44 AM
I liked that episode. The Dr. Pershing stuff was good, though I have no idea where it's going. Well... I think it's setting up Snoke, who if I had to guess, the entire Mandoverse wraps up with a Snoke cameo setting up the sequel series. But I don't see where Pershing goes from here. Clearly he has a role to play or they would have just killed him off way earlier.

Does Bo embrace the old ways? Does she end up leading Mandalore again? Obviously she'd need to get the darksaber from Din first. Speaking of which, wasn't the dark saber hers after she picked it up from robot spider guy? Spider guy bested Din, she bested spider guy... it was hers right? But she gave it back. Maybe she doesn't want to lead anymore...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 17, 2023, 08:23:50 AM
Does Bo embrace the old ways? Does she end up leading Mandalore again? Obviously she'd need to get the darksaber from Din first. Speaking of which, wasn't the dark saber hers after she picked it up from robot spider guy? Spider guy bested Din, she bested spider guy... it was hers right? But she gave it back. Maybe she doesn't want to lead anymore...

She was given the Darksaber by Sabin Wren....who had 'won' it. Which....could be the reason her leadership failed since she didn't technically 'win' it then either.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 17, 2023, 08:36:52 AM
Does Bo embrace the old ways? Does she end up leading Mandalore again? Obviously she'd need to get the darksaber from Din first. Speaking of which, wasn't the dark saber hers after she picked it up from robot spider guy? Spider guy bested Din, she bested spider guy... it was hers right? But she gave it back. Maybe she doesn't want to lead anymore...

She was given the Darksaber by Sabin Wren....who had 'won' it. Which....could be the reason her leadership failed since she didn't technically 'win' it then either.
I don't know what the definition of winning it is, but it sure seemed like she won it in episode 2. Clearly she didn't feel comfortable taking it though. I'll be curious how her story arc finishes up. Who will be the one to ride the mythosaur and unite Mandalore? Her or Din? Someone else?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 17, 2023, 09:37:07 AM
Does Bo embrace the old ways? Does she end up leading Mandalore again? Obviously she'd need to get the darksaber from Din first. Speaking of which, wasn't the dark saber hers after she picked it up from robot spider guy? Spider guy bested Din, she bested spider guy... it was hers right? But she gave it back. Maybe she doesn't want to lead anymore...

She was given the Darksaber by Sabin Wren....who had 'won' it. Which....could be the reason her leadership failed since she didn't technically 'win' it then either.
I don't know what the definition of winning it is, but it sure seemed like she won it in episode 2. Clearly she didn't feel comfortable taking it though. I'll be curious how her story arc finishes up. Who will be the one to ride the mythosaur and unite Mandalore? Her or Din? Someone else?

The tradition is that you have to defeat whomever wields it in battle to become the rightful heir to it. That’s why Din has it now…..he defeated Mof Gideon who had it. Remember, then he just wanted to give it to Bo Katan because he doesn’t really care about it and she “couldn’t” accept it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 17, 2023, 09:59:15 AM
Does Bo embrace the old ways? Does she end up leading Mandalore again? Obviously she'd need to get the darksaber from Din first. Speaking of which, wasn't the dark saber hers after she picked it up from robot spider guy? Spider guy bested Din, she bested spider guy... it was hers right? But she gave it back. Maybe she doesn't want to lead anymore...

She was given the Darksaber by Sabin Wren....who had 'won' it. Which....could be the reason her leadership failed since she didn't technically 'win' it then either.
I don't know what the definition of winning it is, but it sure seemed like she won it in episode 2. Clearly she didn't feel comfortable taking it though. I'll be curious how her story arc finishes up. Who will be the one to ride the mythosaur and unite Mandalore? Her or Din? Someone else?

The tradition is that you have to defeat whomever wields it in battle to become the rightful heir to it. That’s why Din has it now…..he defeated Mof Gideon who had it. Remember, then he just wanted to give it to Bo Katan because he doesn’t really care about it and she “couldn’t” accept it.
But the spider guy defeated Din, so spider guy was momentarily the rightful heir to it. Spider guy happened to leave it laying on the ground and Bo defeated him. So it's an easy conclusion to draw that Bo at the point was the rightful heir. It's not really a huge deal, but I would have liked it explained why Bo gave it back.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 17, 2023, 10:24:46 AM
But the spider guy defeated Din, so spider guy was momentarily the rightful heir to it. Spider guy happened to leave it laying on the ground and Bo defeated him. So it's an easy conclusion to draw that Bo at the point was the rightful heir. It's not really a huge deal, but I would have liked it explained why Bo gave it back.

Yeah....I can see what you're saying. I guess 'they' could say that the spider guy had no idea of what the darksaber even is so he never really took possession of it? Or that he's not a human or Mandalorian? I don't know?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 17, 2023, 08:42:31 PM
I enjoyed the scenes with Tobias Funke and AC Slater for the Andor-ish vibe, but it was an odd detour from the Mandalorian. Does anybody actually remember the Slater girl from prior episodes? I do remember Dr. Funke, but did she have any lines or do anything memorable before?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 17, 2023, 09:30:23 PM
I enjoyed the scenes with Tobias Funke and AC Slater for the Andor-ish vibe, but it was an odd detour from the Mandalorian. Does anybody actually remember the Slater girl from prior episodes? I do remember Dr. Funke, but did she have any lines or do anything memorable before?

Just a handful of scenes where she was in the presence of Moff Gideon....on the bridge and in some what may have been 'cool kid club' type instances. I think she's clearly still working with or aligned to help Gideon and carrying on whatever it is they were doing (assumingly the precursor to Snoke)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on March 22, 2023, 12:42:12 PM
Very good episode today even if the setups are a bit contrived, love me some backstory whenever shown. Shortest episode so far less than 30 mins. I'm enjoying these episodes but man does it not feel like a Mandalorian show anymore.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 22, 2023, 12:54:15 PM
Shortest episode so far less than 30 mins.

This pisses me off to no end. If this is the way they're telling the story then throw two episodes together out then....increase the episode numbers for the season....whatever. But for me, this is a ripp off for paying for the service. I'm expecting quality SW's content from Disney and that includes 40+ minute episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on March 22, 2023, 01:47:07 PM
I think I'm getting tapped out of Mando.  Im struggling to stay interested in this season.  I'm not sure what it is, but I'm just bored with it at this point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on March 22, 2023, 01:47:24 PM
I get what you're saying, but it doesnt bother me, if the story needs to be told in that time, then it's all good. Of course I could use longer episodes any time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 22, 2023, 02:58:49 PM
I think I'm getting tapped out of Mando.  Im struggling to stay interested in this season.  I'm not sure what it is, but I'm just bored with it at this point.

That's the thing.....to me, it feels like Disney is intentionally dragging the show out. 45-50 minute episodes with a 12 episode season and you can tell a great story that wouldn't have too much filler. GOT did it successfully for years until the source material ran out and even then it was still an above average show in respect to each episode not being filled with filler AND was long and engaging.

Disney in my view is just slow playing this show now and it's annoying. I know they have the Ahsoka series they're looking to tie into with this story so I'll cut them a bit of slack but not much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on March 22, 2023, 05:37:53 PM
Fun episode. Honestly they could've just shown Grogu fucking with the dart shooter and I would've been happy. His cuteness hasn't worn off yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 22, 2023, 08:09:53 PM
I was fine with it, too.  It was on the short side, for sure; when it was done, I went "whoa, that's it?" but it felt more like the episode went by quickly than it just being short.  It was both.  But I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 22, 2023, 08:24:15 PM
I wish Grogu had force-stopped one of the paintballs, and threw it back at the teenager.

Speaking of whom, was he hanging out in the Pterodactyl's mouth for like 20 hours or some shit like that?
Captured ---> chase on jets long enough to run out of fuel ---> walk back to camp ---> wait for Bo to comeback and reveal nest location ---> fly to nest area  ---> hike to nest location ---> camp ---> rock climb, and the kid is JUST THEN getting regurgitated to be Gerber's Organic Mando with Beskar Helmet?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on March 22, 2023, 08:47:14 PM
I wish Grogu had force-stopped one of the paintballs, and threw it back at the teenager.

Speaking of whom, was he hanging out in the Pterodactyl's mouth for like 20 hours or some shit like that?
Captured ---> chase on jets long enough to run out of fuel ---> walk back to camp ---> wait for Bo to comeback and reveal nest location ---> fly to nest area  ---> hike to nest location ---> camp ---> rock climb, and the kid is JUST THEN getting regurgitated to be Gerber's Organic Mando with Beskar Helmet?


You just want to suck the fun out of everything....don't you?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 22, 2023, 09:23:16 PM
I thought the same thing.  The timeline didn't make a lot of sense.

When the raptor thing came swooping in and took the kid away, I said something about all kinds of prehistoric things living on that planet.  Not a great place to hide out on, or maybe a great place to hide out on because no one goes there.  I wondered whatever happened to the dinocroc from a few episodes ago, then I got my answer.  Whoa!  There's always a bigger fish, or, something.

So now the three raptor orphans are "foundlings"?  How in the heck is that gonna work?  Although riding one of those once they get big enough would be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on March 23, 2023, 12:45:23 AM
I think I'm getting tapped out of Mando.  Im struggling to stay interested in this season.  I'm not sure what it is, but I'm just bored with it at this point.

That's the thing.....to me, it feels like Disney is intentionally dragging the show out. 45-50 minute episodes with a 12 episode season and you can tell a great story that wouldn't have too much filler. GOT did it successfully for years until the source material ran out and even then it was still an above average show in respect to each episode not being filled with filler AND was long and engaging.

Disney in my view is just slow playing this show now and it's annoying. I know they have the Ahsoka series they're looking to tie into with this story so I'll cut them a bit of slack but not much.
Disney has nothing to do with it, it's Filloni and Favreau. And they've always taken a slow pace of storytelling with this show, and nods to wider things going on (like Moff Gideon's experiments and Ahsoka's appearance). I get that's not for everyone but it's carrying on pretty much as it always has been (other than needing to have watched the right episodes of Book of Boba to know what's going on at the start of this season, which I still think was really weird).

I thought the latest episode was great. Cool to see Grogu's Order 66 flashback, and I'm enjoying Bo-Katan's story arc. I don't imagine she's being converted to the religious beliefs of the Children of the Watch, but rather that she's liking the sense of community and connection.

Also it feels clearer now, with all the foundlings they're training, that the sect has been taking people in and trying to grow and expand, which explains why it's much bigger than it was last season.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 23, 2023, 04:46:28 AM
I wish Grogu had force-stopped one of the paintballs, and threw it back at the teenager.

Speaking of whom, was he hanging out in the Pterodactyl's mouth for like 20 hours or some shit like that?
Captured ---> chase on jets long enough to run out of fuel ---> walk back to camp ---> wait for Bo to comeback and reveal nest location ---> fly to nest area  ---> hike to nest location ---> camp ---> rock climb, and the kid is JUST THEN getting regurgitated to be Gerber's Organic Mando with Beskar Helmet?


You just want to suck the fun out of everything....don't you?

Just call me Stadler  :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on March 23, 2023, 07:06:51 AM
 :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 23, 2023, 08:18:58 AM
Was a 'fine' episode. At this point I'm way more interested in the character arc of Bo-Katan than anything. She's been a really good character all along during the animated shows and has just continued to be great in Mando....so, it's interesting to see her story progress.

As far as Mando and Grogu.....I just see it as Disney milking their journey and them just spoon feeding tiny bits by bits. Been pretty cut and paste storyline thus far. And, I'm not overly impressed with the backstory of Grogu being saved....specifically because they used some random/unknown Jedi Kelleran Beq to pull off the feat. Lame IMO. Could have/should have used any of the other handful of Jedi that 'we' had been introduced to in the animated series just to have some sort of cohesion. This random dude is a let down in my eyes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 23, 2023, 08:30:31 AM
Was a 'fine' episode. At this point I'm way more interested in the character arc of Bo-Katan than anything. She's been a really good character all along during the animated shows and has just continued to be great in Mando....so, it's interesting to see her story progress.

As far as Mando and Grogu.....I just see it as Disney milking their journey and them just spoon feeding tiny bits by bits. Been pretty cut and paste storyline thus far. And, I'm not overly impressed with the backstory of Grogu being saved....specifically because they used some random/unknown Jedi Kelleran Beq to pull off the feat. Lame IMO. Could have/should have used any of the other handful of Jedi that 'we' had been introduced to in the animated series just to have some sort of cohesion. This random dude is a let down in my eyes.

Quote
In late May 2020, Lucasfilm announced that Best would be starring as Jedi Master Kelleran Beq in a game-show called Star Wars: Jedi Temple Challenge, with a scheduled release date of June 3, 2020.[10][11] It was later reported that Jedi Temple Challenge's release date had been delayed until June 10 as a result of the unrest surrounding George Floyd's murder.[12][13][14] He would later reprise the role in the third season of The Mandalorian, a live-action series set in the Star Wars universe.[15]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Best

The same actor was also the voice and motion-capture for Jar-Jar Binks.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kelleran_Beq

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 23, 2023, 08:54:20 AM
Was a 'fine' episode. At this point I'm way more interested in the character arc of Bo-Katan than anything. She's been a really good character all along during the animated shows and has just continued to be great in Mando....so, it's interesting to see her story progress.

As far as Mando and Grogu.....I just see it as Disney milking their journey and them just spoon feeding tiny bits by bits. Been pretty cut and paste storyline thus far. And, I'm not overly impressed with the backstory of Grogu being saved....specifically because they used some random/unknown Jedi Kelleran Beq to pull off the feat. Lame IMO. Could have/should have used any of the other handful of Jedi that 'we' had been introduced to in the animated series just to have some sort of cohesion. This random dude is a let down in my eyes.

Quote
In late May 2020, Lucasfilm announced that Best would be starring as Jedi Master Kelleran Beq in a game-show called Star Wars: Jedi Temple Challenge, with a scheduled release date of June 3, 2020.[10][11] It was later reported that Jedi Temple Challenge's release date had been delayed until June 10 as a result of the unrest surrounding George Floyd's murder.[12][13][14] He would later reprise the role in the third season of The Mandalorian, a live-action series set in the Star Wars universe.[15]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Best

The same actor was also the voice and motion-capture for Jar-Jar Binks.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kelleran_Beq

-Marc.

Yeah.....I knew he was the Jar Jar guy and about the Jedi Temple Challenge thing.....still makes no sense not to use a Jedi that TCW's had introduced us to. This guy was random....there's no getting around it. And I 'get' it......it doesn't/didn't need to be a Jedi we all 'know/knew'.....the randomness of it all is fine. It's just a 'miss' in my eyes.


Jocasta Nu could have been a good one, Tera Sinube....I mean....they showed his dead body in 'Obi Wan's' series....could have given the backstory there.....I don't know.....I just feel like a miss to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on March 23, 2023, 09:19:34 AM
I think I'm getting tapped out of Mando.  Im struggling to stay interested in this season.  I'm not sure what it is, but I'm just bored with it at this point.

That's the thing.....to me, it feels like Disney is intentionally dragging the show out. 45-50 minute episodes with a 12 episode season and you can tell a great story that wouldn't have too much filler. GOT did it successfully for years until the source material ran out and even then it was still an above average show in respect to each episode not being filled with filler AND was long and engaging.

Disney in my view is just slow playing this show now and it's annoying. I know they have the Ahsoka series they're looking to tie into with this story so I'll cut them a bit of slack but not much.
Disney has nothing to do with it, it's Filloni and Favreau. And they've always taken a slow pace of storytelling with this show, and nods to wider things going on (like Moff Gideon's experiments and Ahsoka's appearance). I get that's not for everyone but it's carrying on pretty much as it always has been (other than needing to have watched the right episodes of Book of Boba to know what's going on at the start of this season, which I still think was really weird).

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure it has to do with Disney beyond Disney just milking everything Star Wars.  I think I just feel bored with it.  Also I was thinking I actually enjoyed Book of Boba more than this season as much as I hate how you had to watch to fill the gap.  I had enjoyed the first couple seasons of Mando, it's just starting to feel old to me at this point.  I had kind of started to feel that way when Andor came out, but that show won me over and now coming back to this, it feels so uninteresting to me.  I may just not be that into the lore like some here are to really appreciate it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 23, 2023, 07:54:04 PM
I liked it. I agree that kid would have been dead in minutes, so that was kind of stupid.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: PetFish on March 23, 2023, 09:25:12 PM
Epic butthurt rant:

Mandalorians are useless.  I am beyond disappointed with both Mandalorian live-action shows.

Everything that made them awesome in the animated shows is gone.  Everything I was hoping for, from what's been shown in the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy, with The Mandalorian and Book of Boba hasn't happened and what *has* happened is 99% garbage.

Jango - badass
OG Boba - badass, quiet, but we just knew he was badass
Boba Book - boring AF and completely out of character
Din Djarin - first few episodes he was a badass, now is just boring and lame
Bo Katan (animated) - total badass
Bo Katan (live) - totally lame
Mandalorians (animated) - absolute badasses
Mandalorians (live) - totally useless, boring, and stupid

The Mandalorians - What a stupid cult.  Let's be all about our clan and "this is the way" but then let's all go find a place to hide so we can take off our helmets and eat.  Let's put a helmet on as a kid and then never take it off for the rest of our lives.  Let's all move slowly and talk even slower and show no emotion or urgency in anything.


The Mandalorian

... What's the plan for Grogu?  He's 50 and still a toddler.  He'll be 150 before he's "old enough" and they'll all be dead anyway.  Is he going to wear armor?  That ridiculous chest thing will still take up half his chest once he's fully grown.

... The bird takes the kid and will feed it immediately when it gets back to the nest.  But, let's chase it anyway and then say it always gets away, and since we're stupid we won't at least *try* and do something different to take it out, just let the kid die.  Oh no, we run out of fuel, as usual, and we don't have any ships around?  We don't learn from our mistakes?

... So Bo chases it, finds it's nest, then flies back to slowly and calmly tell the others, no urgency, who slowly and calmly talk about shit.  Then they fly "close" so as not to let it know they're there, then take a Hobbit cross-country journey to the nest, but don't climb it, let's camp out overnight first and eat alone so nobody sees us without our hat.

... Of course, as soon as we get to the nest, it's perfect timing for the mama bird to show up and hork up the happy meal... WHO ISN'T EFFING DEAD AND SHREDDED, not to mention mama was, what, just hanging around before feeding her kids?  So somehow the kid survives in there for a day and a half, and then comes out entirely whole and a-ok?  WTF kind of bad joke is this?

... Let's bring home the 3 baby birds and call them "foundlings" which, presumably, means they're going to train them to be Mandalorians?  Raise them to be mounts or something, that's fair, but to make them Mandalorians?  WTAF?


This still doesn't cover how disappointed I've been with the majority of the live Star Wars shows.  The animated ones (eg. Bad Batch) are what the live shows should be.  Everyone gushing over Andor but, same thing, it's so boring and slow.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on March 24, 2023, 02:33:49 AM
Was a 'fine' episode. At this point I'm way more interested in the character arc of Bo-Katan than anything. She's been a really good character all along during the animated shows and has just continued to be great in Mando....so, it's interesting to see her story progress.

As far as Mando and Grogu.....I just see it as Disney milking their journey and them just spoon feeding tiny bits by bits. Been pretty cut and paste storyline thus far. And, I'm not overly impressed with the backstory of Grogu being saved....specifically because they used some random/unknown Jedi Kelleran Beq to pull off the feat. Lame IMO. Could have/should have used any of the other handful of Jedi that 'we' had been introduced to in the animated series just to have some sort of cohesion. This random dude is a let down in my eyes.

Quote
In late May 2020, Lucasfilm announced that Best would be starring as Jedi Master Kelleran Beq in a game-show called Star Wars: Jedi Temple Challenge, with a scheduled release date of June 3, 2020.[10][11] It was later reported that Jedi Temple Challenge's release date had been delayed until June 10 as a result of the unrest surrounding George Floyd's murder.[12][13][14] He would later reprise the role in the third season of The Mandalorian, a live-action series set in the Star Wars universe.[15]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Best

The same actor was also the voice and motion-capture for Jar-Jar Binks.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kelleran_Beq

-Marc.

Yeah.....I knew he was the Jar Jar guy and about the Jedi Temple Challenge thing.....still makes no sense not to use a Jedi that TCW's had introduced us to. This guy was random....there's no getting around it. And I 'get' it......it doesn't/didn't need to be a Jedi we all 'know/knew'.....the randomness of it all is fine. It's just a 'miss' in my eyes.


Jocasta Nu could have been a good one, Tera Sinube....I mean....they showed his dead body in 'Obi Wan's' series....could have given the backstory there.....I don't know.....I just feel like a miss to me.
Eh, either way they wouldn't be able to please everyone. For each person who would prefer links to previous characters, like you, there's another complaining that they rely too much on reusing previous characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on March 24, 2023, 08:04:50 AM
The Mandalorians - What a stupid cult.  Let's be all about our clan and "this is the way" but then let's all go find a place to hide so we can take off our helmets and eat.  Let's put a helmet on as a kid and then never take it off for the rest of our lives.  Let's all move slowly and talk even slower and show no emotion or urgency in anything.

I watched the new episode last night and couldn't get rid of the similar thoughts. It just seemed so... stupid, like you say.

Having said that, I actually enjoyed the episode because it felt more like something from the first two seasons.  But it's hard to over look some really odd betrayal of the Mandalorians and I haven't watched any of the animated series.

Everyone gushing over Andor but, same thing, it's so boring and slow.

Ando was slow to start, I almost didn't want to continue, but by episode 3 I was hooked and completely changed my thoughts on the show. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 24, 2023, 08:37:30 AM
Was a 'fine' episode. At this point I'm way more interested in the character arc of Bo-Katan than anything. She's been a really good character all along during the animated shows and has just continued to be great in Mando....so, it's interesting to see her story progress.

As far as Mando and Grogu.....I just see it as Disney milking their journey and them just spoon feeding tiny bits by bits. Been pretty cut and paste storyline thus far. And, I'm not overly impressed with the backstory of Grogu being saved....specifically because they used some random/unknown Jedi Kelleran Beq to pull off the feat. Lame IMO. Could have/should have used any of the other handful of Jedi that 'we' had been introduced to in the animated series just to have some sort of cohesion. This random dude is a let down in my eyes.

Quote
In late May 2020, Lucasfilm announced that Best would be starring as Jedi Master Kelleran Beq in a game-show called Star Wars: Jedi Temple Challenge, with a scheduled release date of June 3, 2020.[10][11] It was later reported that Jedi Temple Challenge's release date had been delayed until June 10 as a result of the unrest surrounding George Floyd's murder.[12][13][14] He would later reprise the role in the third season of The Mandalorian, a live-action series set in the Star Wars universe.[15]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Best

The same actor was also the voice and motion-capture for Jar-Jar Binks.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kelleran_Beq

-Marc.

Yeah.....I knew he was the Jar Jar guy and about the Jedi Temple Challenge thing.....still makes no sense not to use a Jedi that TCW's had introduced us to. This guy was random....there's no getting around it. And I 'get' it......it doesn't/didn't need to be a Jedi we all 'know/knew'.....the randomness of it all is fine. It's just a 'miss' in my eyes.


Jocasta Nu could have been a good one, Tera Sinube....I mean....they showed his dead body in 'Obi Wan's' series....could have given the backstory there.....I don't know.....I just feel like a miss to me.
Eh, either way they wouldn't be able to please everyone. For each person who would prefer links to previous characters, like you, there's another complaining that they rely too much on reusing previous characters.

Yeah, I get it.....and I am nit picking. I will say that I'm not at all 'displeased' with the show. I'll take any amount of SW content they want to give us.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 24, 2023, 09:16:32 AM
I thought it was a fun episode.  Not sure why all the issues.

Grogu chose to reject being a Jedi so he could go with Din Jarin to become a Mandalorian.  That's what they showed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 24, 2023, 09:28:29 AM
When Grogu was having his flashback and being rescued by the Jedi on the speeder, I said to Mrs. Orbert "there are guys out there who could tell you the name of the guy on the speeder" because they always tie them in.  All I needed to know at the time was that he was the guy rescuing Grogu.  I was actually surprised and impressed that they didn't shoehorn in a known character, that it was a "redemption arc" for Jar-Jar Binks and I just laughed.  In a good way.  I think it's great.  Not everyone who appears in a flashback or side plot has to be someone we already know from something else.  Do it once in a while, and it's fun.  Do it all the time and it actually makes the Star Wars universe seem smaller, because we keep running into the same people.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: PetFish on March 24, 2023, 08:47:32 PM
The Mandalorians - What a stupid cult.  Let's be all about our clan and "this is the way" but then let's all go find a place to hide so we can take off our helmets and eat.  Let's put a helmet on as a kid and then never take it off for the rest of our lives.  Let's all move slowly and talk even slower and show no emotion or urgency in anything.

I watched the new episode last night and couldn't get rid of the similar thoughts. It just seemed so... stupid, like you say.

Having said that, I actually enjoyed the episode because it felt more like something from the first two seasons.  But it's hard to over look some really odd betrayal of the Mandalorians and I haven't watched any of the animated series.

Everyone gushing over Andor but, same thing, it's so boring and slow.

Ando was slow to start, I almost didn't want to continue, but by episode 3 I was hooked and completely changed my thoughts on the show.

I highly recommend watching the animated shows.  They are how I wish the live shows would be.

Andor, being slow and boring, did get better once he went to prison.  The one thing that stood out for me was just how terrifying and ruthless the Empire was during this time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 24, 2023, 08:48:42 PM
I thought it was a fun episode.  Not sure why all the issues.

Grogu chose to reject being a Jedi so he could go with Din Jarin to become a Mandalorian.  That's what they showed.

Agreed, it was fun, if a bit silly plot hole-wise.

Epic butthurt rant:

Mandalorians are useless.  I am beyond disappointed with both Mandalorian live-action shows.

Everything that made them awesome in the animated shows is gone.  Everything I was hoping for, from what's been shown in the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy, with The Mandalorian and Book of Boba hasn't happened and what *has* happened is 99% garbage.

Jango - badass
OG Boba - badass, quiet, but we just knew he was badass
Boba Book - boring AF and completely out of character
Din Djarin - first few episodes he was a badass, now is just boring and lame
Bo Katan (animated) - total badass
Bo Katan (live) - totally lame
Mandalorians (animated) - absolute badasses
Mandalorians (live) - totally useless, boring, and stupid

The Mandalorians - What a stupid cult.  Let's be all about our clan and "this is the way" but then let's all go find a place to hide so we can take off our helmets and eat.  Let's put a helmet on as a kid and then never take it off for the rest of our lives.  Let's all move slowly and talk even slower and show no emotion or urgency in anything.


The Mandalorian

... What's the plan for Grogu?  He's 50 and still a toddler.  He'll be 150 before he's "old enough" and they'll all be dead anyway.  Is he going to wear armor?  That ridiculous chest thing will still take up half his chest once he's fully grown.

... The bird takes the kid and will feed it immediately when it gets back to the nest.  But, let's chase it anyway and then say it always gets away, and since we're stupid we won't at least *try* and do something different to take it out, just let the kid die.  Oh no, we run out of fuel, as usual, and we don't have any ships around?  We don't learn from our mistakes?

... So Bo chases it, finds it's nest, then flies back to slowly and calmly tell the others, no urgency, who slowly and calmly talk about shit.  Then they fly "close" so as not to let it know they're there, then take a Hobbit cross-country journey to the nest, but don't climb it, let's camp out overnight first and eat alone so nobody sees us without our hat.

... Of course, as soon as we get to the nest, it's perfect timing for the mama bird to show up and hork up the happy meal... WHO ISN'T EFFING DEAD AND SHREDDED, not to mention mama was, what, just hanging around before feeding her kids?  So somehow the kid survives in there for a day and a half, and then comes out entirely whole and a-ok?  WTF kind of bad joke is this?

... Let's bring home the 3 baby birds and call them "foundlings" which, presumably, means they're going to train them to be Mandalorians?  Raise them to be mounts or something, that's fair, but to make them Mandalorians?  WTAF?


This still doesn't cover how disappointed I've been with the majority of the live Star Wars shows.  The animated ones (eg. Bad Batch) are what the live shows should be.  Everyone gushing over Andor but, same thing, it's so boring and slow.

But I kind of agree with all of this. My wife always tells me to suspend my disbelief because it’s a show about space magic, but then she said something about the dragon and I just threw it back at her. It’s pretty dumb writing, but still fun.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 24, 2023, 08:53:57 PM
The Mandalorians really do need to think about constructing some indoor training facilities. Not safe to practice out in the open with the predatory flying dinosaurs and enormous crocodiles around.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on March 24, 2023, 11:45:44 PM
This show hasn't changed "the mandalorians". This group is a fanatical sect that seems to be trying to expand by bringing in new converts and foundlings who clearly aren't experienced warriors. It's a very different group to most of those we've seen in the animated shows.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 25, 2023, 07:21:57 AM
This show hasn't changed "the mandalorians". This group is a fanatical sect that seems to be trying to expand by bringing in new converts and foundlings who clearly aren't experienced warriors. It's a very different group to most of those we've seen in the animated shows.

Yep. It's even a different group than we first met that bailed Din out in S1. That group was a much 'tougher' and more experienced group but Gideon wiped a lot of them out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jammindude on March 25, 2023, 07:58:00 PM
Just had to say that after watching Mando last night, I got the urge to do something I’ve never done.

Dive head first into The Clone Wars. Only saw the first two episodes last night, but it was far better than I expected. Looking forward to more tonight!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on March 25, 2023, 08:45:20 PM
All things being said, there's way too little discussion about how fucking adorable Grogu was with the little wrist dart shooter...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 25, 2023, 08:58:37 PM
Just had to say that after watching Mando last night, I got the urge to do something I’ve never done.

Dive head first into The Clone Wars. Only saw the first two episodes last night, but it was far better than I expected. Looking forward to more tonight!

It’s a chore at times but it’s totally worth it. Gives so much more development to Anakin, I’ve said it before and I’ll maintain that TCWs Anakin ‘IS’ the only Anakin…….that prequel move thing Christiansen was torpedo’d with means nothing. Forget it. Anakin in TCWs is very well developed and you witness his slow burn to the dark side.

Same for Kenobi. The character gets flushed out more and is really amazing. And of course, Ahsoka is introduced and by the end of the series (and Rebels) you see why she’s easily one of the most powerful Jedi/Force users that we come across. Makes Rey look like a perpetual Padawan

And the last four episodes of TCWs is some of the best SW material ever.


Don’t skip Rebels either……it’s a quicker watch and really good. And, from what I understand much of the live action Ahsoka series is tied to the ending of Rebels and will feature many characters from it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jammindude on March 25, 2023, 09:18:08 PM
Thank you!

I married someone a bit older than me, and she has always tended to look down her nose at animated stuff. (…and because we tend to watch stuff together, we end up watching things we will both enjoy) But there have been a few things out there that have slowly won her over to animated stuff not just being “family fare”. So we started on a night she was feeling a bit more open minded (only about TV shows, unfortunately  :hat ) and she actually started digging on the story, so it looks like we’re going to keep binging.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 25, 2023, 09:22:37 PM
The animation itself advances as the seasons go on.

There are some good storylines, lots of political storylines……then there are some just throw away episodes. I’d say it’s a 80/20 split of important vs filler episodes. Good thing is they’re short in length so….it’s just a chore to get through the series because of the sheer amount of episodes involved.


Have fun!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 25, 2023, 09:58:12 PM
All things being said, there's way too little discussion about how fucking adorable Grogu was with the little wrist dart shooter...

Adorable and also badass with it.  The other kid got the first two shots in, maybe because he thought you could only shoot once per round or something.  But after Din's pep talk, Grogu just bam! bam! bam! nailed the other guy and won.  I was cheering out loud.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on March 26, 2023, 10:57:38 AM
Just had to say that after watching Mando last night, I got the urge to do something I’ve never done.

Dive head first into The Clone Wars. Only saw the first two episodes last night, but it was far better than I expected. Looking forward to more tonight!

For as important of a franchise Star Wars to me in my youth, I never developed any interest in any of those series, and I don't know why.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: PetFish on March 26, 2023, 09:24:33 PM
But I kind of agree with all of this. My wife always tells me to suspend my disbelief because it’s a show about space magic, but then she said something about the dragon and I just threw it back at her. It’s pretty dumb writing, but still fun.

I'm really great at suspending my disbelief and it takes A LOT for me to finally be like "COME ON, MAN, SERIOUSLY?"

I was also thinking that the way the Mandalorian cult talks and how it's all "this is the way" they should have just let the kid die cuz, you know, "this is the way" and nature selected him for elimination cuz he's weak.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on March 27, 2023, 04:14:58 AM
This is The Way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 27, 2023, 09:08:33 AM
But I kind of agree with all of this. My wife always tells me to suspend my disbelief because it’s a show about space magic, but then she said something about the dragon and I just threw it back at her. It’s pretty dumb writing, but still fun.

I'm really great at suspending my disbelief and it takes A LOT for me to finally be like "COME ON, MAN, SERIOUSLY?"

I was also thinking that the way the Mandalorian cult talks and how it's all "this is the way" they should have just let the kid die cuz, you know, "this is the way" and nature selected him for elimination cuz he's weak.
I'm really hoping that Bo unites the clans my riding the mythosaur and convinces everyone that the super stick "way" of doing things is not necessary. I agree that the cultish way is a little stupid. I think it will either be Bo convincing them to renounce the old ways, or Bo joining them in the old ways. not sure which direction it's going.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 27, 2023, 10:30:33 AM
But I kind of agree with all of this. My wife always tells me to suspend my disbelief because it’s a show about space magic, but then she said something about the dragon and I just threw it back at her. It’s pretty dumb writing, but still fun.

I'm really great at suspending my disbelief and it takes A LOT for me to finally be like "COME ON, MAN, SERIOUSLY?"

I was also thinking that the way the Mandalorian cult talks and how it's all "this is the way" they should have just let the kid die cuz, you know, "this is the way" and nature selected him for elimination cuz he's weak.
I'm really hoping that Bo unites the clans my riding the mythosaur and convinces everyone that the super stick "way" of doing things is not necessary. I agree that the cultish way is a little stupid. I think it will either be Bo convincing them to renounce the old ways, or Bo joining them in the old ways. not sure which direction it's going.

My theory is that Grogu will be anatomically incapable of wearing a helmet, so he’ll force them to make an exception and once you let one guy not wear a helmet, it will seem silly for everyone else to wear one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 27, 2023, 11:22:50 AM
Grogu will wind up "taming" the mythosaur with the Force, and become Lord of all Mandalore.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 27, 2023, 11:46:40 AM
Grogu will wind up "taming" the mythosaur with the Force, and become Lord of all Mandalore.

There are several articles out there showing screen captures and what not of the Mythosaur's shadow with the light source from below casting what is a perfect silhouette of Grogu's head....I guess with the tusks and what not it makes sense.

Clearly, Grogu is important and will factor in to all this....he HAS to really.....just as long as they continue to find ways for Bo Katan to remove her helmet  :heart
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ZirconBlue on March 27, 2023, 12:27:14 PM
There is, but they've also been allies. Pre Vizsla was leader of the Death Watch which Bo-Katan was part of - they were basically a terrorist group that disagreed with Mandalore's pacifist government (led by Bo-Katan's sister). They went... rather off the rails, let's say, Pre Vizsla worked with Darth Maul to overthrow the Mandalorian government, tried to betray him and ended up getting killed. Bo-Katan left the group and did her own thing instead, and eventually (after the Empire came and took over) Clan Vizsla was one of those that rallied behind her.


I assume Pre Vizsla got their start at a computer FX house.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on March 28, 2023, 02:43:31 AM
But I kind of agree with all of this. My wife always tells me to suspend my disbelief because it’s a show about space magic, but then she said something about the dragon and I just threw it back at her. It’s pretty dumb writing, but still fun.

I'm really great at suspending my disbelief and it takes A LOT for me to finally be like "COME ON, MAN, SERIOUSLY?"

I was also thinking that the way the Mandalorian cult talks and how it's all "this is the way" they should have just let the kid die cuz, you know, "this is the way" and nature selected him for elimination cuz he's weak.
"This is the way" isn't the same as "What will be will be". The Way is about following the creed, which presumably involves looking out for foundlings.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: XJDenton on March 28, 2023, 03:35:36 PM
Yeah, it's "This is the way of the Mandalore". And "Foundlings are the Future" is a theme that has come up multiple times.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: XJDenton on March 28, 2023, 03:35:55 PM
Grogu will wind up "taming" the mythosaur with the Force, and become Lord of all Mandalore.

This is the way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: PetFish on March 28, 2023, 06:31:54 PM
Well, I think I'll definitely be crapping my pants when this Kenobi fan edit comes out soon:

Trailer 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw1NMgSHAFA

Trailer 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw1qBIPsW9Q

Comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrFS760Vkk8
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 28, 2023, 06:37:15 PM
Saw that. And I saw  that he is more than a ‘fan’…..he actually has worked on a ton of Lucas Film movies.

Looks awesome
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on March 29, 2023, 10:11:56 AM
Today's episode was quite a riveting one! Halfway through the season and now the pieces are starting to fall in place and the overarching plot is beginning to become clear. Really liked this episode!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on March 29, 2023, 02:08:27 PM
Zeb!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 29, 2023, 08:15:50 PM
I enjoyed it a lot as well. One of the better episodes this season.

I will say that I am noticing the limitations of the Volume and they way most of this show is shot. Andor was largely shot on location and with larger sets. It felt more real. This show often feels small and I think that's due to the fact that they only have a few hundred square feet to work with much of the time. I can't really explain it, but it's a noticeable difference. I didn't really notice it the first two seasons, but I am now. Oddly as the technology is getting better. Am I crazy or does anyone notice it too?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 29, 2023, 08:59:44 PM
Zeb!

Yes! That had to be him!


Liked the episode a lot also.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jammindude on March 29, 2023, 11:07:58 PM
As I’m going through The Clone Wars. It’s becoming FAR more difficult to explain Darth Vader’s complete non-recognition of R2 in the OT.  The idea that Obi-Wan is feigning ignorance in the OT is somewhat plausible. But Vader’s ignorance is baffling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on March 30, 2023, 04:37:33 AM
Zeb!

Yes! That had to be him!
It was indeed, says so in the credits (and voiced again by Steve Blum). I guess we'll probably be seeing him in the Ahsoka series if that's somewhat a continuation from Rebels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 30, 2023, 08:04:58 AM
Zeb!

Yes! That had to be him!
It was indeed, says so in the credits (and voiced again by Steve Blum). I guess we'll probably be seeing him in the Ahsoka series if that's somewhat a continuation from Rebels.

Gotta say…..they really pulled off the look. It wasn’t campy or cheesy at all. Looked great!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 30, 2023, 09:50:40 AM
I will say that I am noticing the limitations of the Volume and they way most of this show is shot. Andor was largely shot on location and with larger sets. It felt more real. This show often feels small and I think that's due to the fact that they only have a few hundred square feet to work with much of the time. I can't really explain it, but it's a noticeable difference. I didn't really notice it the first two seasons, but I am now. Oddly as the technology is getting better. Am I crazy or does anyone notice it too?

I agree, and I also agree that it's a bit hard to quantify.  It all looks great; the virtual sets look and feel like location shots.  But somehow it still feels like they're on a set sometimes.  Not all the time.  I wonder if the actors subconsciously act just a little bit differently because they know they're in an enclosed space, and it's not quite how you might act if you were really standing out in the open, on the edge of a lake, or out in a desert or something.  Some subtle difference in their movements that we the viewers pick up subconsciously as well.

But overall, a good episode.  The turn with Bo-Katan caught me by surprise, but I kinda like where they're going with it.  The side story with Captain Teva seemed a little odd and maybe unnecessary, but then G68 (Elia Kane) showed up and things were apparently more complicated than I thought.

The deal with the pirates, arguably the main point of the episode, was probably the least interesting plot.  I know it's a sci-fi thing, but it can get a kinda stupid how in a civilization that spans worlds or even galaxies, planets ~ cities.  People fly from one planet to another, and it's like us driving to the next town over, or taking a plane to a different country.  Except in Star Wars, that entire planet is "a desert planet" or "a swamp planet" or something, so it's more analogous to going to a different country.  Nevarro is a planet.  We saw a relatively small town that Karga is the (High) Chancellor of, and... that's it?  When the pirates showed up and started blasting away, realistically they should've destroyed that entire town in about five minutes.  Instead, several dozen people got out, but at some point Karga turned to address them "Citizens of Nevarro" and we see that there's maybe 40 or 50 people... and that's the entire planet?  Also, during that attack by the pirates, doesn't Karga have any kind of local militia or even just regular law enforcement?  No one was defending the city/country/planet.  What the hell does the (High) Chancellor do?  If you've decided that you're an independent planet, not part of the Empire or New Republic or anything, then that means you're on your own as far as defense.  Did it not occur to Karga that the pirates would eventually be back?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 30, 2023, 09:58:56 AM
Was anyone else waiting for the Armorer to take off her helmet as well and say "screw this shit" or something more eloquent?

Also, if the Mandalorians have no ships, how the hell did they all get on that rock?

I will say that I am noticing the limitations of the Volume and they way most of this show is shot. Andor was largely shot on location and with larger sets. It felt more real. This show often feels small and I think that's due to the fact that they only have a few hundred square feet to work with much of the time. I can't really explain it, but it's a noticeable difference. I didn't really notice it the first two seasons, but I am now. Oddly as the technology is getting better. Am I crazy or does anyone notice it too?

I agree, and I also agree that it's a bit hard to quantify.  It all looks great; the virtual sets look and feel like location shots.  But somehow it still feels like they're on a set sometimes.  Not all the time.  I wonder if the actors subconsciously act just a little bit differently because they know they're in an enclosed space, and it's not quite how you might act if you were really standing out in the open, on the edge of a lake, or out in a desert or something.  Some subtle difference in their movements that we the viewers pick up subconsciously as well.
Glad it's not just me. :lol I agree it all looks great, but it feels off. I think the escaping citizens from Navarro was the tipping point in this episode. Clearly the town has more than 30 people in it, but that's all they showed escaping. Why? Because that's all the Volume could fit of course. Add more with CGI or something. It just felt wrong. The place where the Mandalorian are hanging out felt off too.

I know it's a sci-fi thing, but it can get a kinda stupid how in a civilization that spans worlds or even galaxies, planets ~ cities.  People fly from one planet to another, and it's like us driving to the next town over, or taking a plane to a different country.  Except in Star Wars, that entire planet is "a desert planet" or "a swamp planet" or something, so it's more analogous to going to a different country.  Nevarro is a planet.  We saw a relatively small town that Karga is the (High) Chancellor of, and... that's it? 
I feel like most planets in Star Wars are defined by a single city, or maybe a few. The planets are maybe all really tiny? If there are billions of people on Earth, why aren't there billions on every planets in Star Wars? I remember laughing at the clones in Attack of the Clones. "A million more on the way" What good are a million clones in a galaxy where there are probably hundreds of billions of people? Unless the population just isn't that high because every planet is tiny and sparsely populated apart from Coruscant.

Zeb!

Yes! That had to be him!
It was indeed, says so in the credits (and voiced again by Steve Blum). I guess we'll probably be seeing him in the Ahsoka series if that's somewhat a continuation from Rebels.

Gotta say…..they really pulled off the look. It wasn’t campy or cheesy at all. Looked great!
Was that a physical suit or CGI? It was so quick I couldn't really tell. Either way it looked great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 30, 2023, 10:13:10 AM
Was anyone else waiting for the Armorer to take off her helmet as well and say "screw this shit" or something more eloquent?

I wondered if that's where they were going with that, but I mostly wanted The Armorer to take off her helmet because Emily Sparrow is a babe but we haven't seen her at all (yet?)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 30, 2023, 10:15:50 AM
Was anyone else waiting for the Armorer to take off her helmet as well and say "screw this shit" or something more eloquent?

I thought the same thing. Was anticipating her removing her helmet and giving some sort of 'new era' speech.....still may happen but it felt like it was coming


Was that a physical suit or CGI? It was so quick I couldn't really tell. Either way it looked great.

Don't know.....but it did look good. Maybe a combination of both? Just has me excited that they can utilize him in the Ahsoka series if they wanted to seeing how well they pulled that off. That's a tough character to transfer to live action as far as appearance goes.




I'm thinking since we haven't seen the two Mandalorians that were with Bo Katan last season (Koska Reeves played by Mercedes Varnado and Axe Woves played by Simon Kassianides) that they were involved in stealing Mof Gideon. Which, makes me wonder if Bo Katan was in on it as well? Or, maybe they just make it a different group of Mandalorians we've yet to meet?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on March 30, 2023, 10:16:43 AM
Today's episode was quite a riveting one! Halfway through the season and now the pieces are starting to fall in place and the overarching plot is beginning to become clear. Really liked this episode!

-Marc.

Yeah, as someone who said he was losing interest, I'm back to enjoying the show.

Having said that...

I will say that I am noticing the limitations of the Volume and they way most of this show is shot. Andor was largely shot on location and with larger sets. It felt more real. This show often feels small and I think that's due to the fact that they only have a few hundred square feet to work with much of the time. I can't really explain it, but it's a noticeable difference. I didn't really notice it the first two seasons, but I am now. Oddly as the technology is getting better. Am I crazy or does anyone notice it too?

I agree, and I also agree that it's a bit hard to quantify.  It all looks great; the virtual sets look and feel like location shots.  But somehow it still feels like they're on a set sometimes.  Not all the time.  I wonder if the actors subconsciously act just a little bit differently because they know they're in an enclosed space, and it's not quite how you might act if you were really standing out in the open, on the edge of a lake, or out in a desert or something.  Some subtle difference in their movements that we the viewers pick up subconsciously as well.
Glad it's not just me. :lol I agree it all looks great, but it feels off. I think the escaping citizens from Navarro was the tipping point in this episode. Clearly the town has more than 30 people in it, but that's all they showed escaping. Why? Because that's all the Volume could fit of course. Add more with CGI or something. It just felt wrong. The place where the Mandalorian are hanging out felt off too.

The escaping citizens was a bit ridiculous  :lol it looked like they ran into an open airfield and the big ship above didn't notice? Let alone, my gf's like "that's all who survived in that whole city?!"  It really made little sense, but that goes for so much of this show and yes, I understand I need to suspend my disbelief, but sometimes it's just so bad it's funny.

As for the sets, I had been thinking that it's more that we've seen these set pieces before and that's why it feels that way. I wouldn't say it has bothered me much though, I generally like the way this show has been shot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on March 30, 2023, 10:28:48 AM
I'm thinking since we haven't seen the two Mandalorians that were with Bo Katan last season (Koska Reeves played by Mercedes Varnado and Axe Woves played by Simon Kassianides) that they were involved in stealing Mof Gideon. Which, makes me wonder if Bo Katan was in on it as well? Or, maybe they just make it a different group of Mandalorians we've yet to meet?
I think the Armorer is the leading suspect in freeing Gideon. Or working with Grand Admiral Thrawn to free Gideon. She seems sketchy. It also felt a little too convenient that a small chunk of Beskar was left behind. I smell a frame job.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 30, 2023, 10:31:51 AM
Definitely a frame job, and a nifty little mystery as well.  I'm curious as to where it's going.


I almost forgot: Nice fake-out with Paz Vizsla.  He starts going on about "Why should we listen to Din Djarin?  Why should we help Nevarro?" and I'm thinking this guy is still such a dick, but then he turned it around.  "Because we're Mandalorians!" and the others listen to him when apparently Din didn't move them at all.  Oh, okay.  99% of people saw that coming I'm sure, but I guess I'm special.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 30, 2023, 10:32:50 AM
I'm thinking since we haven't seen the two Mandalorians that were with Bo Katan last season (Koska Reeves played by Mercedes Varnado and Axe Woves played by Simon Kassianides) that they were involved in stealing Mof Gideon. Which, makes me wonder if Bo Katan was in on it as well? Or, maybe they just make it a different group of Mandalorians we've yet to meet?
I think the Armorer is the leading suspect in freeing Gideon. Or working with Grand Admiral Thrawn to free Gideon. She seems sketchy. It also felt a little too convenient that a small chunk of Beskar was left behind. I smell a frame job.

Very true.....it's a convenient piece of evidence for sure.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 30, 2023, 10:43:24 AM
Who's Zeb?  People seem to be freaking out a bit about him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 30, 2023, 10:50:27 AM
Who's Zeb?  People seem to be freaking out a bit about him.

He is a major character from the animated series 'Rebels'.



https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Garazeb_Orrelios
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on March 30, 2023, 10:57:28 AM
Interesting.  His history seems to involve the Mandalorians a bit (based on skimming through a very thorough article) so it makes sense to include him here.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 31, 2023, 08:00:03 AM
I was just glad that Grogu was basically just window dressing for once.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on March 31, 2023, 09:03:57 PM
Yeah, I had a hard time with this episode. Felt like they were trying really hard to tie together disparate elements from the show. Kim’s Convenience guy was in like 5 minute of a previous season, but he somehow knew all about Mando and the Chancellor? The pirates story line seems really silly (especially Captain Chard).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on April 01, 2023, 09:49:14 AM
Yeah, I had a hard time with this episode. Felt like they were trying really hard to tie together disparate elements from the show. Kim’s Convenience guy was in like 5 minute of a previous season, but he somehow knew all about Mando and the Chancellor? The pirates story line seems really silly (especially Captain Chard).

How the towns people got out the town without the pirates noticing from the air, was odd
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: PetFish on April 01, 2023, 10:47:25 AM
Can someone explain to me what the purpose/point of being a Mandalorian is?  At least the way they are at this point in the timeline?

They live in a cave and are more difficult to listen to speak than every hockey player doing an interview.  They have no crops or any way to make a living yet they somehow have weapons and supplies.  They clumsily train all day long to do... what?  They have no ships but do have fuel for their jetpacks but are saying they have to relocate just cuz one single person knows where they are... again, without ships or any way to travel.  And so on.

When they reclaimed the city THAT is what they should be all about.  For-hire mercenaries efficiently and impressively doing shit and getting paid so they can support their way of life.

I just don't get these guys at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 01, 2023, 11:53:09 AM
Can someone explain to me what the purpose/point of being a Mandalorian is?  At least the way they are at this point in the timeline?

They live in a cave and are more difficult to listen to speak than every hockey player doing an interview.  They have no crops or any way to make a living yet they somehow have weapons and supplies.  They clumsily train all day long to do... what?  They have no ships but do have fuel for their jetpacks but are saying they have to relocate just cuz one single person knows where they are... again, without ships or any way to travel.  And so on.

When they reclaimed the city THAT is what they should be all about.  For-hire mercenaries efficiently and impressively doing shit and getting paid so they can support their way of life.

I just don't get these guys at all.

I'll admit that even having watched all the animated stuff, all the movies.....and being 'really into' SW.....I'm not quite sure at this point either. This is my understanding of the whole scenario:

- After the fall of Mandalor the Armorer's little group splintered off and went 'strict old school' with how they thought Mandalorians should live/behave.
- Bo Katan and her crew sauntered around and scraped a living out but weren't as heretical as that group that was hiding on Navarr

Which is where both clans were at when we met them in the story. Looks like there is still a story to tell with Bo Katan and how Gideon ended up with the Dark Saber as she had the Dark Saber last in the animated series and was going to 'lead' the Mandalorians that were left after the fall of Mandalore. So, there's still a portion we aren't hip to.

As far as them appearing to be less than intimidating and a shell of the lore that the Mandalorians were built on.....I can see that....but as has been mentioned in this thread somewhere....they're rebuilding and most of those Mandalorians are probably recent recruits. The lack of supplies looks to be explained by the crates and cargo that is scattered about in a lot of those scenes, ships to get there? Maybe they're hidden...maybe they have a regularly paid transport that brings supplies and what not....or just a few of them are out scouting the galaxy for more recruits and are using the available ships? To me that's not a big issue and easily explained away in one scene if they really needed to.

To me it appears that the show is trying to get the point across that at this point in time...the Mandalorian's are close to going extinct and that they're in dire need of a strong leader, someone to unite them all and it looks like they're setting up Bo Katan for that...OR....it may be Grogu ala Hef's postulation that he tames or uses the Mythosaur to unite everyone.

Either way....I don't see it as clumsy or haphazard as you do.....I think it's 100% intentional to show what disarray the Mandalorians are in overall.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Elite on April 02, 2023, 01:21:57 PM
My first thought (could be wrong) is some tribe of Mandalorians went after Moff Gideon because he supposedly has the Darksaber and whoever inadvertenly freed him in doing so had no idea the Darksaber is currently with Din Djarin.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 03, 2023, 07:33:04 AM
Anyone else been watching The Bad Batch? Caught up on the final 2 episodes of Season 2 over the weekend. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 03, 2023, 07:49:11 AM
Anyone else been watching The Bad Batch? Caught up on the final 2 episodes of Season 2 over the weekend. Good stuff.

Need to watch the final two episodes but yes, I've been watching. I like the extra content and peek at other stories in that world. Been a fun series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 03, 2023, 07:55:26 AM
Can someone explain to me what the purpose/point of being a Mandalorian is?  At least the way they are at this point in the timeline?

They live in a cave and are more difficult to listen to speak than every hockey player doing an interview.  They have no crops or any way to make a living yet they somehow have weapons and supplies.  They clumsily train all day long to do... what?  They have no ships but do have fuel for their jetpacks but are saying they have to relocate just cuz one single person knows where they are... again, without ships or any way to travel.  And so on.

When they reclaimed the city THAT is what they should be all about.  For-hire mercenaries efficiently and impressively doing shit and getting paid so they can support their way of life.

I just don't get these guys at all.

I'll admit that even having watched all the animated stuff, all the movies.....and being 'really into' SW.....I'm not quite sure at this point either. This is my understanding of the whole scenario:

- After the fall of Mandalor the Armorer's little group splintered off and went 'strict old school' with how they thought Mandalorians should live/behave.
- Bo Katan and her crew sauntered around and scraped a living out but weren't as heretical as that group that was hiding on Navarr

Which is where both clans were at when we met them in the story. Looks like there is still a story to tell with Bo Katan and how Gideon ended up with the Dark Saber as she had the Dark Saber last in the animated series and was going to 'lead' the Mandalorians that were left after the fall of Mandalore. So, there's still a portion we aren't hip to.

As far as them appearing to be less than intimidating and a shell of the lore that the Mandalorians were built on.....I can see that....but as has been mentioned in this thread somewhere....they're rebuilding and most of those Mandalorians are probably recent recruits. The lack of supplies looks to be explained by the crates and cargo that is scattered about in a lot of those scenes, ships to get there? Maybe they're hidden...maybe they have a regularly paid transport that brings supplies and what not....or just a few of them are out scouting the galaxy for more recruits and are using the available ships? To me that's not a big issue and easily explained away in one scene if they really needed to.

To me it appears that the show is trying to get the point across that at this point in time...the Mandalorian's are close to going extinct and that they're in dire need of a strong leader, someone to unite them all and it looks like they're setting up Bo Katan for that...OR....it may be Grogu ala Hef's postulation that he tames or uses the Mythosaur to unite everyone.

Either way....I don't see it as clumsy or haphazard as you do.....I think it's 100% intentional to show what disarray the Mandalorians are in overall.
I don't see any reason to assume that Bo Katan's former group and the Armorer's group are the only surviving Mandalorian groups.  So, what it means to be a Mandalorian could have many different answers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 03, 2023, 08:02:07 AM
Can someone explain to me what the purpose/point of being a Mandalorian is?  At least the way they are at this point in the timeline?

They live in a cave and are more difficult to listen to speak than every hockey player doing an interview.  They have no crops or any way to make a living yet they somehow have weapons and supplies.  They clumsily train all day long to do... what?  They have no ships but do have fuel for their jetpacks but are saying they have to relocate just cuz one single person knows where they are... again, without ships or any way to travel.  And so on.

When they reclaimed the city THAT is what they should be all about.  For-hire mercenaries efficiently and impressively doing shit and getting paid so they can support their way of life.

I just don't get these guys at all.

I'll admit that even having watched all the animated stuff, all the movies.....and being 'really into' SW.....I'm not quite sure at this point either. This is my understanding of the whole scenario:

- After the fall of Mandalor the Armorer's little group splintered off and went 'strict old school' with how they thought Mandalorians should live/behave.
- Bo Katan and her crew sauntered around and scraped a living out but weren't as heretical as that group that was hiding on Navarr

Which is where both clans were at when we met them in the story. Looks like there is still a story to tell with Bo Katan and how Gideon ended up with the Dark Saber as she had the Dark Saber last in the animated series and was going to 'lead' the Mandalorians that were left after the fall of Mandalore. So, there's still a portion we aren't hip to.

As far as them appearing to be less than intimidating and a shell of the lore that the Mandalorians were built on.....I can see that....but as has been mentioned in this thread somewhere....they're rebuilding and most of those Mandalorians are probably recent recruits. The lack of supplies looks to be explained by the crates and cargo that is scattered about in a lot of those scenes, ships to get there? Maybe they're hidden...maybe they have a regularly paid transport that brings supplies and what not....or just a few of them are out scouting the galaxy for more recruits and are using the available ships? To me that's not a big issue and easily explained away in one scene if they really needed to.

To me it appears that the show is trying to get the point across that at this point in time...the Mandalorian's are close to going extinct and that they're in dire need of a strong leader, someone to unite them all and it looks like they're setting up Bo Katan for that...OR....it may be Grogu ala Hef's postulation that he tames or uses the Mythosaur to unite everyone.

Either way....I don't see it as clumsy or haphazard as you do.....I think it's 100% intentional to show what disarray the Mandalorians are in overall.
I don't see any reason to assume that Bo Katan's former group and the Armorer's group are the only surviving Mandalorian groups.  So, what it means to be a Mandalorian could have many different answers.

Nor do I....I only mentioned those two due to them being the only ones really featured thus far. I think both Bo Katan and the Armorer know there are others out there. Maybe less organized or MORE organized than they are. And now Bo Katan is tasked with finding as many as she can.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 03, 2023, 08:36:22 AM
Now you can't unsee it

(https://i.ibb.co/Csqh8xg/Captura-de-pantalla-2023-04-03-a-la-s-10-35-12.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 03, 2023, 09:05:42 AM
GTFO
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 03, 2023, 10:08:19 AM
I have no idea who/what that is, so I guess that's good?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 03, 2023, 10:12:29 AM
I have no idea who/what that is, so I guess that's good?

mash up The Mandalorian/The Last of Us
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Polarbear on April 03, 2023, 10:34:33 AM
Now you can't unsee it

(https://i.ibb.co/Csqh8xg/Captura-de-pantalla-2023-04-03-a-la-s-10-35-12.png)

Well, shit!

Now I know what I'll be seeing in my nightmares tonight. :lol


Any gamers here? Anyone planning to play Jedi: Survivor? Looks really good imo, and I'll be interested to see where the story goes..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 03, 2023, 12:50:31 PM
I have no idea who/what that is, so I guess that's good?

mash up The Mandalorian/The Last of Us

Thanks.  I've heard a lot about that show (Pascal's other show) but have never seen it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on April 05, 2023, 07:47:02 AM
Fun episode again today. Bo Katan's arc has been very strong this season and she's really "The Mandalorian" in this season I feel. Honestly would've been better to just not have Grogu reunite with Djin. This would've been a fine season without him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 05, 2023, 08:47:51 AM
Honestly would've been better to just not have Grogu reunite with Djin. This would've been a fine season without him.

There is a pretty consistent internet rumor that Kathleen Kennedy and the honcho's at Disney forced Favreau and Filoni to re-introduce Grogu to the series. That their 'vision' was to continue the show without him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: XJDenton on April 05, 2023, 09:02:22 AM
I mean that would be on-brand for Kennedy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 05, 2023, 09:56:29 AM
I mean that would be on-brand for Kennedy.

Yeah. She’s the worst thing to ever happen to SW’s
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on April 05, 2023, 12:41:10 PM
Honestly would've been better to just not have Grogu reunite with Djin. This would've been a fine season without him.

There is a pretty consistent internet rumor that Kathleen Kennedy and the honcho's at Disney forced Favreau and Filoni to re-introduce Grogu to the series. That their 'vision' was to continue the show without him.

I suppose it's their cash cow for merchandising so I sorta get how they have Grogu in the loop. Plus I'd think a big chunk of viewers would want Grogu to be in the show and with Djin which is probably why he's tagging along.

I am curious about next week's episode seeing as Dave Filoni is a co-writer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on April 05, 2023, 01:40:06 PM
Honestly would've been better to just not have Grogu reunite with Djin. This would've been a fine season without him.

There is a pretty consistent internet rumor that Kathleen Kennedy and the honcho's at Disney forced Favreau and Filoni to re-introduce Grogu to the series. That their 'vision' was to continue the show without him.

I suppose it's their cash cow for merchandising so I sorta get how they have Grogu in the loop. Plus I'd think a big chunk of viewers would want Grogu to be in the show and with Djin which is probably why he's tagging along.

I am curious about next week's episode seeing as Dave Filoni is a co-writer.

Not that Din Djarin has been in this show enough this season, but by calling the show The Mandalorian and not "The Din Djarin Show", I guess focusing on Bo-Katan isn't technically wrong.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 05, 2023, 01:43:20 PM
Honestly would've been better to just not have Grogu reunite with Djin. This would've been a fine season without him.

There is a pretty consistent internet rumor that Kathleen Kennedy and the honcho's at Disney forced Favreau and Filoni to re-introduce Grogu to the series. That their 'vision' was to continue the show without him.

I suppose it's their cash cow for merchandising so I sorta get how they have Grogu in the loop. Plus I'd think a big chunk of viewers would want Grogu to be in the show and with Djin which is probably why he's tagging along.

I am curious about next week's episode seeing as Dave Filoni is a co-writer.

For sure.....that little thing prints money for them.


And I am excited to see the Filoni directed episode as well. I haven't watched this weeks episode yet....but....Filoni directed the episode when Ahsoka was introduced so I'm curious as to if maybe we get to see Sabine Wren prior to her appearance on the 'Ahsoka' series? She is a Mandalorian....her and Bo Katan do have a history.....maybe?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on April 05, 2023, 05:31:49 PM
I'm getting bored of Grogu. He barely does anything, so why is he there? I get why they want him on the show, but if all he's there for is to look cute, he's pointless. I don't expect him to go all Flippy Flippy with a lightsaber, but he really doesn't add anything to any scene he's in. They could have even reintroduced him later with Luke, and he could show off some skills. I know there's only so much they can do with a puppet before relying on CGI. Grogu just does nothing for me at this point. He should have stayed with Luke.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 05, 2023, 07:33:45 PM
That was... not the best. Kinda weird. I was right about the ownership of the darksaber a few episodes back though.

I agree that Grogu isn't doing much. I stated a couple pages ago that a reunion with Din at the end of Season 3 would have been better. I stand by that comment.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 05, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Yeah…..good call on the a dark saber ownership. Good to see Bo Katan get it back.

I think the three cameos were brutal. Totally turned the episode in to a joke IMO. I’m assuming that was Lizzo….or some other C rated musician who performed at a D level acting. Jack Black was wasted. Any other role maybe he’s better but that one was so dumb……and pulling Christopher Lloyd out of moth balls to stumble his way through lines was cringeworthy to watch. Just horrible choices there. Horrible.

The last 10 minutes of the episode should have been the first ten and then go from there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 06, 2023, 04:55:35 AM
I liked Christpoher Lloyd, but the other two were pretty bad. I agree that the last 10 minutes were really all the mattered in that episode and should have been the focus.

I think we've had enough comedians in The Mandalorian at this point, haven't we? I'd rather they just went with unknown actors for the small roles instead of distracting us with well known people.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 06, 2023, 07:36:35 AM
I liked Christpoher Lloyd, but the other two were pretty bad. I agree that the last 10 minutes were really all the mattered in that episode and should have been the focus.

I think we've had enough comedians in The Mandalorian at this point, haven't we? I'd rather they just went with unknown actors for the small roles instead of distracting us with well known people.

Yeah....it feels like we're at the point where one of the directors or writers are at a dinner party and in some small talk they say "yeah...sure, I'll get you a part on the show!" A change in casting on that episode with some lesser known or more 'serious' actors with a more serious approach....and suddenly the droids that turn on humans issue is a bit more compelling.

I dug the last 10 minutes where Bo Katan kicked the shit out of Ace Woves and re-established herself as the rightful leader. She was a badass in the animated series and they've certainly shown that she hasn't lost a step.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on April 06, 2023, 08:20:24 AM
Lizzo was TERRIBLE.  Jack Black just seemed a bit out of place.  Lloyd was fine.

And I agree with the others who have said Grogu is pointless this season.  I actually get a bit annoyed when they show him doing something "cute" because it feels so cheap.  Like it's worn it's welcome out with me because there's no other use of the character other than that especially the whole Lizzo obsession with Grogu. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 06, 2023, 10:00:24 AM
This is why I always try to stay spoiler-free, including promotional spots of any kind.  I had no idea that any of the stunt guest stars were going to be in last night's episode, so to me they were just characters in the story.  Maybe a little distracting seeing Jack Black as the Duke of Whatever and Christopher Lloyd as Captain Corrupt, but no big deal.

I thought that the "maintenance fluid" or whatever TF that stuff was being hacked was an interesting idea, but the idea that no one had ever thought of even checking out what exactly was being pumped into the droids was lame.  Then it turned out that Captain Corrupt was the one doing it and he was in charge of the investigations, so he got away with it.  Weird little side venture when they only went to that planet so Bo could kick Axe Woves' ass, but it had its roots in something like serious sci-fi, so I was okay with it.  Din talking with the Ugnaughts was fun.  I knew he was gonna end that little speech with "I have spoken" and cheered when he did.  Also, the Ugnaughts may be great techies, but they are kinduv assholes.  They refused to admit that there had even been any malfunctions, even while admitting that there have been countless reports and even a few deaths.  Okay, so technically they weren't malfunctions but were all acts of sabotage, but come on.

I can completely see the theory that Grogu was supposed to be off training with Luke during all this and would be reunited with Din later, except someone at Disney couldn't live with that so instead he's following Din around being cute and selling more toys but otherwise contributing nothing to the story.  The story with Bo rising up to reunite the Mandalorian clans is compelling and doesn't need any distraction, and we see now that it is the main focus this season.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 06, 2023, 10:03:29 AM
I can completely see the theory that Grogu was supposed to be off training with Luke during all this and would be reunited with Din later, except someone at Disney couldn't live with that so instead he's following Din around being cute and selling more toys but otherwise contributing nothing to the story.  The story with Bo rising up to reunite the Mandalorian clans is compelling and doesn't need any distraction, and we see now that it is the main focus this season.

It completely has the appearance of Filoni and Favreau saying "fine...we'll bring him back" and then just placing him off to the side in the scenes and showing him every now and then.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on April 06, 2023, 10:24:18 AM
They didn't jump the shark, but they definitely got their leather vest on and are fueling up the boat...

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 06, 2023, 10:35:32 AM
I can completely see the theory that Grogu was supposed to be off training with Luke during all this and would be reunited with Din later, except someone at Disney couldn't live with that so instead he's following Din around being cute and selling more toys but otherwise contributing nothing to the story. 
I think this is absolutely the case
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on April 06, 2023, 10:40:10 AM
I can completely see the theory that Grogu was supposed to be off training with Luke during all this and would be reunited with Din later, except someone at Disney couldn't live with that so instead he's following Din around being cute and selling more toys but otherwise contributing nothing to the story. 
I think this is absolutely the case

If they were really smart they could've had a running side story of Grogu training with Luke and how he had to escape Ben going full psycho on everyone.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 06, 2023, 10:44:33 AM
We had something like a Grogu training moment on that planet with the dinocroc and pterodactyls from hell, and they worked in a few moments of Din teaching Grogu something while they're flying around.  All they'd have to do is fit in a few more of those types of scenes, and we'd feel like the bond is growing, Grogu is getting some training, Din is learning how to be a dad-figure if not an actual dad, all that.  I would be fine with that.  But literally having Grogu do nothing except coo and babble once in a while (or leap out of his floating pram at the sight of food) is weak.  It wouldn't be that hard to make it all more organic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 06, 2023, 10:49:43 AM
We had something like a Grogu training moment on that planet with the dinocroc and pterodactyls from hell, and they worked in a few moments of Din teaching Grogu something while they're flying around.  All they'd have to do is fit in a few more of those types of scenes, and we'd feel like the bond is growing, Grogu is getting some training, Din is learning how to be a dad-figure if not an actual dad, all that.  I would be fine with that.  But literally having Grogu do nothing except coo and babble once in a while (or leap out of his floating pram at the sight of food) is weak.  It wouldn't be that hard to make it all more organic.
Yeah good point. 2 extra minutes per episode wouldn't have been difficult.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on April 06, 2023, 11:05:03 AM
totally agree.... and honestly even the training scenes can still give the cute moments. I mean look how cute he was with the wrist dart shooter...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 06, 2023, 11:27:44 AM
He was badass with the wrist dart shooter!  I loved that scene.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on April 06, 2023, 12:08:06 PM
He was badass with the wrist dart shooter!  I loved that scene.

Right? It's possible to be cute without being stupid. Especially when you start with such inherent cuteness like Grogu.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on April 06, 2023, 01:36:17 PM
New for Christmas 2023: Jumping Grogu!

January 2024: Jumping Grogu has been discontinued after one of the toys malfunctioned and gave a child a concussion.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2023, 05:44:17 AM
Ahsoka trailer

https://fb.watch/jLKU6gZFBc/

Series arrive on D+ August 2023
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2023, 07:34:26 AM
New movie coming with Rey leading a new Jedi order, takes place 15 years after Rise of Skywalker - officially discussed at Star Wars Celebration 2023 with Daisy Ridley making an appearance.

I'm not opposed to this. I just think it should be a few more years. I don't think it's been long enough after the sequel trilogy. We need 5-10 more years. Though it will be a couple years before this comes out I'm sure. I also hope they don't call it Episode 10. Will we see Finn as one of her first students and closest Jedi lieutenant? I hope so. Finn's character was not done justice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on April 07, 2023, 07:48:38 AM
So there are three films announced.

First Jedi - Directed by James Mangold
Events set before The Force Awakens - Dave Filoni
15 years after Rise of Skywallker (with Rey coming back) - Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy

All intriguing ideas, not sure what happened to all the other previous ones announced with Kevin Fiege, Taika Waititi and the Rian Johnson trilogy. I know the Patty Jenkins one was supposedly canned.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2023, 07:59:53 AM
So there are three films announced.

First Jedi - Directed by James Mangold
Events set before The Force Awakens - Dave Filoni
15 years after Rise of Skywallker (with Rey coming back) - Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy

All intriguing ideas, not sure what happened to all the other previous ones announced with Kevin Fiege, Taika Waititi and the Rian Johnson trilogy. I know the Patty Jenkins one was supposedly canned.
Awesome, I missed those other two somehow.
 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on April 07, 2023, 08:00:26 AM
I can't help but wonder if Disney are continuing to make the same mistake of announcing way too many movies too early, many of which are clearly "side quest" type films and will probably even get cancelled. :lol

New movie coming with Rey leading a new Jedi order, takes place 15 years after Rise of Skywalker - officially discussed at Star Wars Celebration 2023 with Daisy Ridley making an appearance.

I'm not opposed to this. I just think it should be a few more years. I don't think it's been long enough after the sequel trilogy. We need 5-10 more years. Though it will be a couple years before this comes out I'm sure. I also hope they don't call it Episode 10. Will we see Finn as one of her first students and closest Jedi lieutenant? I hope so. Finn's character was not done justice.
I don't think they should ever make an Episode 10 or any kind of official continuation of the Skywalker Saga, but I do think it would help the brand to have a new trilogy of sorts where the storytelling feels less one-off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on April 07, 2023, 08:03:12 AM
Will we see Finn as one of her first students and closest Jedi lieutenant? I hope so. Finn's character was not done justice.

I vaguely recall the actor playing Finn burning bridges with Lucasfilm or whoever. Not sure if he's going to be involved with this but at this point honestly who knows. The Star Wars shows seem to be happening with a lot more certainty than the movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2023, 08:15:20 AM
I can't help but wonder if Disney are continuing to make the same mistake of announcing way too many movies too early, many of which are clearly "side quest" type films and will probably even get cancelled. :lol
Yeah, I had this thought too. Filoni's movie sounds like a wrap up of the Mando-verse. So we could see Din Djarin, Boba Fett, Ahsoka, Deepfake Luke, etc. team up to take down Thrawn, but fail to prevent the First Order from rising on the big screen instead of on Disney+. So I would imagine that one is pretty solid. Rey's movie I would imagine is more set in stone since the main star is already attached. The other one sounds a little more vague, but I hope they learned their lesson and have these a little more established (first draft of the script at least) before announcing them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on April 07, 2023, 08:20:48 AM
The Rey one was supposed to be written by Damon Lindelof but he left so that's another participant leaving. I was just reading that there is a slot booked for a star wars movie on Dec 2025. Speculation is that it could be the Rey one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2023, 08:23:32 AM
Will we see Finn as one of her first students and closest Jedi lieutenant? I hope so. Finn's character was not done justice.

I vaguely recall the actor playing Finn burning bridges with Lucasfilm or whoever. Not sure if he's going to be involved with this but at this point honestly who knows. The Star Wars shows seem to be happening with a lot more certainty than the movies.
I don't think he burned bridges. If I recall things correctly, he just publicly stated that he wasn't happy with how Finn was treated and suggested that his skin color may have had something to do with it since the Rose character also was not treated well in Rise of Skywalker either. I thought at the time he and Kathleen Kennedy met and discussed it and that both sides walked away OK. But he has come out expressing no interest in going back to Star Wars I believe. I'm curious what John Boyega's relationship with Daisy Ridley is like. If they became good friends during filming, perhaps she could convince him to come back if the story does Finn justice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2023, 08:26:07 AM
The Rey one was supposed to be written by Damon Lindelof but he left so that's another participant leaving. I was just reading that there is a slot booked for a star wars movie on Dec 2025. Speculation is that it could be the Rey one.
I know writers coming and going isn't uncommon in major studio films, but I feel like it happens at a disturbingly high rate for Star Wars. I suspect it often comes down to the producers and directors not caring for the script. But it seems odd to me that a movie would be greenlit without a solid first draft of a script.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 07, 2023, 08:26:11 AM
They didn't jump the shark, but they definitely got their leather vest on and are fueling up the boat...
I agree with this assessment.

All of those cameos were brutal and completely unnecessary.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 07, 2023, 08:38:01 AM
They didn't jump the shark, but they definitely got their leather vest on and are fueling up the boat...
I agree with this assessment.

All of those cameos were brutal and completely unnecessary.

Which is unfortunate because underneath all the silliness of this season is a REALLY great character Arc for Bo Katan. Honestly, she's been the only bright light of the season. Katie Sackhoff is killing it and Bo Katan's story/lore continues to grow.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 07, 2023, 09:08:40 AM
Teaser trailer for Ahsoka has dropped. Looks great!! Saying I'm excited for this would be an understatement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnzNZ0Mdx4I
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 07, 2023, 11:57:48 AM
They didn't jump the shark, but they definitely got their leather vest on and are fueling up the boat...
I agree with this assessment.

All of those cameos were brutal and completely unnecessary.

Which is unfortunate because underneath all the silliness of this season is a REALLY great character Arc for Bo Katan. Honestly, she's been the only bright light of the season. Katie Sackhoff is killing it and Bo Katan's story/lore continues to grow.
I agree with you.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on April 07, 2023, 12:26:58 PM
They didn't jump the shark, but they definitely got their leather vest on and are fueling up the boat...
I agree with this assessment.

All of those cameos were brutal and completely unnecessary.

Which is unfortunate because underneath all the silliness of this season is a REALLY great character Arc for Bo Katan. Honestly, she's been the only bright light of the season. Katie Sackhoff is killing it and Bo Katan's story/lore continues to grow.
I agree with you.


Lizzo in particular was awkward at best to watch...love her as a musician (anyone pop artist who bust out samples from Heart of the Sunrise gets a nod in my book), but she definitely needs some growth as an actor. Lots of growth.

Jack Black was Jack Black, his schtick was so out of place for the show, and just painful.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2023, 12:38:12 PM
What do you all think will be Din's excuse for removing his helmet this season?

Does Bo convince him to abandon the strict version of The Way?
Does Bo convince him to join her in bed? Which makes me chuckle picturing two Mandalorian getting it on with only their helmets. :lol
Is his helmet removed in battle?
Does Grogu remove it with the Force so Din will actually pay attention to him?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Logain Ablar on April 07, 2023, 03:07:12 PM
Yikes, this episode was a shocker. I ended up switching it off halfway through and coming back to it later.  :-[

Jack Black and Lizzo were horribly miscast. Poor Christopher Lloyd seemed to be struggling - I really felt for him.

Just what is Grogu’s story arc this season? I have no clue. He just seems to be window dressing at this point.

On the bright side, Katee Sackhoff is great as Bo Katan, and I definitely want to see more from this character, but it seems to me that they’re making the same mistakes as TBOBF, and Din has become a side character in his own show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on April 07, 2023, 09:36:57 PM
This Mando episode was hard to watch. The Mandalorians just seem dumber and dumber the longer this series goes on. One faction is all like "you can't be one of us if you take off your helmet." The other faction is like "you can't be our leader if you don't have the magic sword." Mando does some fancy lawyering and then everyone is like "hmmm... yeah, you're right, the magic sword is yours and you can be our leader again."

Sneaking one celebrity in as a minor character is ok, but THREE main characters in one episode is just a bit much. They just sort of make the whole thing feel comical. Lizzo and Jack Black's characters seemed completely unserious. When Lizzo banished Lloyd to the terrible, no good moon and he slinked off like a sad puppy, I about lost it. Then they give Bo Katan a huge honking key. Thanks, I guess!

But, hey, Christopher Lloyd has now been in both Star Trek and Star Wars. Not sure how many actors can say that!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 08, 2023, 08:14:16 AM
Also this week, he had a cameo in A Million Little Things, as himself.

Nice to see him drawing a couple of new paychecks, I guess.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 08, 2023, 11:05:22 AM
I was a little disappointed to see that Andor season 2 is going to keep us waiting until August 2024. I miss the days of shows having a new season once a year.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on April 08, 2023, 11:26:16 AM
Looks like the Grogu thoughts are true. Saw a story that Favreau was pissed about Grogu being forced on him by Kathleen Kennedy. He wanted a reunion towards the end of this season and she made him reunite them during Boba Fett. This explains why the only real thing he has brought to this season is getting Bo to rescue Mando on Mandalore.

As always, I'm not overly critical like most. I just enjoy things for what they are. I've had no issue with the season. I enjoy it and that's good enough for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on April 08, 2023, 01:03:20 PM
What are the chances Grogu gets digitally added into Revenge of the Sith at some point?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 08, 2023, 09:07:16 PM
Looks like the Grogu thoughts are true. Saw a story that Favreau was pissed about Grogu being forced on him by Kathleen Kennedy. He wanted a reunion towards the end of this season and she made him reunite them during Boba Fett. This explains why the only real thing he has brought to this season is getting Bo to rescue Mando on Mandalore.

As always, I'm not overly critical like most. I just enjoy things for what they are. I've had no issue with the season. I enjoy it and that's good enough for me.

Yeah, it's a bit disappointing, but it's not like I'm mad about it.  This season has been fun, as they all have been so far.  There have been things which if you want to take it apart, yeah, it could have been done better.  But lots of good stuff overall.  I like where they're going with Bo Katan.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 09, 2023, 10:32:36 AM
(https://scontent.fccs6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/340399558_936440051000229_5096038334640494673_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_aid=0&_nc_ohc=b-novOq1nigAX9sbTv9&_nc_ht=scontent.fccs6-1.fna&oh=00_AfAx8NUj3-4BjwP7aRcXY8sUU6IYFOOSObkdUBBdRCtFBA&oe=6438595C)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on April 09, 2023, 11:16:14 AM
^ ROTJ was my favorite Star Wars movie growing up! Why? The green lightsaber of course! :hat

Whenever I watch it nowadays, I find my opinion of it always worsens just a tad, but there's no doubting it has some incredible moments! The final space battle is still the gold standard!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on April 09, 2023, 02:10:06 PM
^ ROTJ was my favorite Star Wars movie growing up! Why? The green lightsaber of course! :hat

Whenever I watch it nowadays, I find my opinion of it always worsens just a tad, but there's no doubting it has some incredible moments! The final space battle is still the gold standard!

It is the best looking of the three original movies IMO. Was always my favorite as well. The Ewoks are silly but it’s not a big deal to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on April 09, 2023, 02:23:56 PM
Will it be the original theatrical release or the Lucasified version?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on April 09, 2023, 02:39:29 PM
^ ROTJ was my favorite Star Wars movie growing up! Why? The green lightsaber of course! :hat

Whenever I watch it nowadays, I find my opinion of it always worsens just a tad, but there's no doubting it has some incredible moments! The final space battle is still the gold standard!

Oh man, when that green lightsaber lights up for the first time, I imagine 7 year old me went bananas. Such a good decision to cut out that early scene of Luke making his new lightsaber.

46 year old me feels the same as you. It is a movie with great moments, more than it is a great movie. I could critique it, but most everything would be a nitpick, most of them being judgment calls that don't detract from my enjoyment of it. My biggest shift over time was thinking that the section rescuing Han goes on way too long. I don't remember it bothering me at all, until the Special Editions were released and I saw it at that stage in my life.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 10, 2023, 06:46:03 AM
Will it be the original theatrical release or the Lucasified version?
It will be the current version. The originals no longer exist in any high quality format.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on April 10, 2023, 06:49:03 AM
Will it be the original theatrical release or the Lucasified version?
It will be the current version. The originals no longer exist in any high quality format.

That is correct, the best option for those who want to seek out those version is to get the despecialized versions. They are I think the closest things to the original versions.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 10, 2023, 08:06:26 AM
We will probably be hitting up that ROTJ re-release.  Not my favorite (Empire, baby!), but an outstanding film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on April 10, 2023, 08:17:52 AM
Trailer for Visions Volume 2, coming May 4th.
https://youtu.be/SSXqU92cymY

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 10, 2023, 08:58:25 AM
Started a re-watch of Rebels last night to lead into Ahsoka this summer. I forgot how cool that show is. I love how it just jumps right in to action and story....really no 'boring' period to start that series.


Read an article where Dave Filioni said that the average viewer wouldn't need to know the entire history of TCW's and Rebels to enjoy the Ahsoka series. BUT...that if you did...it's only going to enhance the show for you. He did say at minimum one should watch S4 Ep. 10 of 'Rebels' called "Jedi Knight".....and that if you really wanted to feel prepped then watch the entire 4th Season of Rebels.

Me personally....I'd suggest hammering out the entire series of Rebels just because it's really good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on April 10, 2023, 11:05:02 AM
^ ROTJ was my favorite Star Wars movie growing up! Why? The green lightsaber of course! :hat

Whenever I watch it nowadays, I find my opinion of it always worsens just a tad, but there's no doubting it has some incredible moments! The final space battle is still the gold standard!

Oh man, when that green lightsaber lights up for the first time, I imagine 7 year old me went bananas. Such a good decision to cut out that early scene of Luke making his new lightsaber.

46 year old me feels the same as you. It is a movie with great moments, more than it is a great movie. I could critique it, but most everything would be a nitpick, most of them being judgment calls that don't detract from my enjoyment of it. My biggest shift over time was thinking that the section rescuing Han goes on way too long. I don't remember it bothering me at all, until the Special Editions were released and I saw it at that stage in my life.

Yea. I think the Ewok stuff is honestly pretty weird, especially after the darker tone and deeper human emotions of Empire. It's weird seeing teddy bears walk around. :lol It also took me a while to notice that some of the characters, like Han and Vader, kind of don't do anything? They definitely have some cool moments and they have a role to play in the story, it's just that they have nowhere near the presence they had in Empire. Vader pretty much just stands around the whole time and does what the Emperor wants. :millahhhh

But it has a great opening. And a greater closing. And the green lightsaber. So it's all good to me. :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on April 10, 2023, 02:16:21 PM
^ ROTJ was my favorite Star Wars movie growing up! Why? The green lightsaber of course! :hat

Whenever I watch it nowadays, I find my opinion of it always worsens just a tad, but there's no doubting it has some incredible moments! The final space battle is still the gold standard!

Oh man, when that green lightsaber lights up for the first time, I imagine 7 year old me went bananas. Such a good decision to cut out that early scene of Luke making his new lightsaber.

46 year old me feels the same as you. It is a movie with great moments, more than it is a great movie. I could critique it, but most everything would be a nitpick, most of them being judgment calls that don't detract from my enjoyment of it. My biggest shift over time was thinking that the section rescuing Han goes on way too long. I don't remember it bothering me at all, until the Special Editions were released and I saw it at that stage in my life.

Yea. I think the Ewok stuff is honestly pretty weird, especially after the darker tone and deeper human emotions of Empire. It's weird seeing teddy bears walk around. :lol It also took me a while to notice that some of the characters, like Han and Vader, kind of don't do anything? They definitely have some cool moments and they have a role to play in the story, it's just that they have nowhere near the presence they had in Empire. Vader pretty much just stands around the whole time and does what the Emperor wants. :millahhhh

But it has a great opening. And a greater closing. And the green lightsaber. So it's all good to me. :hefdaddy

This is an interesting point. I think ROTJ sets up Vader's redemption arc by shifting the villain focus from Vader to the Emperor. In fact Empire kind of starts that with the "I am your father" reveal. A ruthless Vader could have destroyed Luke there and then, but he didn't. Yeah, he wanted to join forces with him, but there is a definite father-son dynamic that changes Vader a bit there, and continues all the way until he decides to choose saving Luke over serving Palpatine. I saw an article the other day that claimed viewers were initially upset that Luke didn't take out the Emperor himself, because the hero is supposed to defeat the bad guy. But it's a much more interesting plot twist for Vader to do it, both to save himself  and Luke (who he didn't want to give in to the dark side).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 10, 2023, 02:39:14 PM
^ ROTJ was my favorite Star Wars movie growing up! Why? The green lightsaber of course! :hat

Whenever I watch it nowadays, I find my opinion of it always worsens just a tad, but there's no doubting it has some incredible moments! The final space battle is still the gold standard!

Oh man, when that green lightsaber lights up for the first time, I imagine 7 year old me went bananas. Such a good decision to cut out that early scene of Luke making his new lightsaber.

46 year old me feels the same as you. It is a movie with great moments, more than it is a great movie. I could critique it, but most everything would be a nitpick, most of them being judgment calls that don't detract from my enjoyment of it. My biggest shift over time was thinking that the section rescuing Han goes on way too long. I don't remember it bothering me at all, until the Special Editions were released and I saw it at that stage in my life.

Yea. I think the Ewok stuff is honestly pretty weird, especially after the darker tone and deeper human emotions of Empire. It's weird seeing teddy bears walk around. :lol It also took me a while to notice that some of the characters, like Han and Vader, kind of don't do anything? They definitely have some cool moments and they have a role to play in the story, it's just that they have nowhere near the presence they had in Empire. Vader pretty much just stands around the whole time and does what the Emperor wants. :millahhhh

But it has a great opening. And a greater closing. And the green lightsaber. So it's all good to me. :hefdaddy

This is an interesting point. I think ROTJ sets up Vader's redemption arc by shifting the villain focus from Vader to the Emperor. In fact Empire kind of starts that with the "I am your father" reveal. A ruthless Vader could have destroyed Luke there and then, but he didn't. Yeah, he wanted to join forces with him, but there is a definite father-son dynamic that changes Vader a bit there, and continues all the way until he decides to choose saving Luke over serving Palpatine. I saw an article the other day that claimed viewers were initially upset that Luke didn't take out the Emperor himself, because the hero is supposed to defeat the bad guy. But it's a much more interesting plot twist for Vader to do it, both to save himself  and Luke (who he didn't want to give in to the dark side).

And…..which is why they missed a prime opportunity for Anakin Skywalker to ‘manifest’ at the end of the last movie…..that BTW was called ‘The Rise of SKYWALKER’ and be the one to defeat the Emperor….again. How fitting and cool would it have been for some dust to swirl and atmosphere to percolate and then have Anakin Skywalker standing there.

He IS the chosen one and was powerful enough to defeat the Son and Daughter of the force…..so, it wouldn’t have been out of the question for him to pull of a little manifestation in that moment.

But instead we got what we got which was lame as hell.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on April 10, 2023, 03:05:33 PM
^ ROTJ was my favorite Star Wars movie growing up! Why? The green lightsaber of course! :hat

Whenever I watch it nowadays, I find my opinion of it always worsens just a tad, but there's no doubting it has some incredible moments! The final space battle is still the gold standard!

Oh man, when that green lightsaber lights up for the first time, I imagine 7 year old me went bananas. Such a good decision to cut out that early scene of Luke making his new lightsaber.

46 year old me feels the same as you. It is a movie with great moments, more than it is a great movie. I could critique it, but most everything would be a nitpick, most of them being judgment calls that don't detract from my enjoyment of it. My biggest shift over time was thinking that the section rescuing Han goes on way too long. I don't remember it bothering me at all, until the Special Editions were released and I saw it at that stage in my life.

Yea. I think the Ewok stuff is honestly pretty weird, especially after the darker tone and deeper human emotions of Empire. It's weird seeing teddy bears walk around. :lol It also took me a while to notice that some of the characters, like Han and Vader, kind of don't do anything? They definitely have some cool moments and they have a role to play in the story, it's just that they have nowhere near the presence they had in Empire. Vader pretty much just stands around the whole time and does what the Emperor wants. :millahhhh

But it has a great opening. And a greater closing. And the green lightsaber. So it's all good to me. :hefdaddy

This is an interesting point. I think ROTJ sets up Vader's redemption arc by shifting the villain focus from Vader to the Emperor. In fact Empire kind of starts that with the "I am your father" reveal. A ruthless Vader could have destroyed Luke there and then, but he didn't. Yeah, he wanted to join forces with him, but there is a definite father-son dynamic that changes Vader a bit there, and continues all the way until he decides to choose saving Luke over serving Palpatine. I saw an article the other day that claimed viewers were initially upset that Luke didn't take out the Emperor himself, because the hero is supposed to defeat the bad guy. But it's a much more interesting plot twist for Vader to do it, both to save himself  and Luke (who he didn't want to give in to the dark side).

And…..which is why they missed a prime opportunity for Anakin Skywalker to ‘manifest’ at the end of the last movie…..that BTW was called ‘The Rise of SKYWALKER’ and be the one to defeat the Emperor….again. How fitting and cool would it have been for some dust to swirl and atmosphere to percolate and then have Anakin Skywalker standing there.

He IS the chosen one and was powerful enough to defeat the Son and Daughter of the force…..so, it wouldn’t have been out of the question for him to pull of a little manifestation in that moment.

But instead we got what we got which was lame as hell.

Not to defend the Sequel Trilogy, but the way I see it is, if it weren't for Anakin saving Luke in ROTJ, then Luke would not have been around to set in motion the events that created by Kylo Ren/First Order, as well as Rey's rise to power as a new Jedi. Anakin's actions in ROTJ definitely helped with putting a definitive end to the Emperor and the Sith, so he did indirectly help. I think having a Force Ghost Anakin (especially one made of dust and sand LOL) would've been SUPER cheesy and taken away from Rey's and Ben's stories (for what they're worth, anyway). It wasn't perfect, but it definitely saw the culmination of the Skywalker bloodline with Ben turning to help defeat Palpatine, much in the same way that Anakin turned to defeat him in ROTJ.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on April 10, 2023, 10:39:03 PM
I never had any problems with the Ewoks, though as I got older I grew more aware of the lag between when the shuttle crew lands on Endor and when the final battle begins.

I saw an article the other day that claimed viewers were initially upset that Luke didn't take out the Emperor himself, because the hero is supposed to defeat the bad guy. But it's a much more interesting plot twist for Vader to do it, both to save himself  and Luke (who he didn't want to give in to the dark side).

Even as I kid I got that the whole point was that the power of good was ultimately stronger than the Dark Side, as Luke was able to defeat the Emperor through his father's redemption.

I cannot comment on the climax/end of RoS, as it was a bit of a mess for me, and I'd have to see it again to have a better perspective on it. But that would mean watching that movie again, which I have no burning desire to do so.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on April 11, 2023, 10:30:02 AM
Not to defend the Sequel Trilogy, but the way I see it is, if it weren't for Anakin saving Luke in ROTJ, then Luke would not have been around to set in motion the events that created by Kylo Ren/First Order, as well as Rey's rise to power as a new Jedi. Anakin's actions in ROTJ definitely helped with putting a definitive end to the Emperor and the Sith, so he did indirectly help. I think having a Force Ghost Anakin (especially one made of dust and sand LOL) would've been SUPER cheesy and taken away from Rey's and Ben's stories (for what they're worth, anyway). It wasn't perfect, but it definitely saw the culmination of the Skywalker bloodline with Ben turning to help defeat Palpatine, much in the same way that Anakin turned to defeat him in ROTJ.

-Marc.
I think this is a bit of a recurring problem with Rise of Skywalker. It doesn't completely invalidate what came before but it definitely makes it a bit less effective, at least for me. Regarding the Emperor, I think everything you said makes complete sense but it probably would have been cooler if they just kept it simple and stuck with Vader killing the Emperor for good back in ROTJ. I also think that, while having Rey be a Palpatine doesn't completely ruin the ideas and themes of TLJ, it would have been cooler if Rey stayed as no one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 11, 2023, 10:42:59 AM
Not to defend the Sequel Trilogy, but the way I see it is, if it weren't for Anakin saving Luke in ROTJ, then Luke would not have been around to set in motion the events that created by Kylo Ren/First Order, as well as Rey's rise to power as a new Jedi. Anakin's actions in ROTJ definitely helped with putting a definitive end to the Emperor and the Sith, so he did indirectly help. I think having a Force Ghost Anakin (especially one made of dust and sand LOL) would've been SUPER cheesy and taken away from Rey's and Ben's stories (for what they're worth, anyway). It wasn't perfect, but it definitely saw the culmination of the Skywalker bloodline with Ben turning to help defeat Palpatine, much in the same way that Anakin turned to defeat him in ROTJ.

-Marc.
I think this is a bit of a recurring problem with Rise of Skywalker. It doesn't completely invalidate what came before but it definitely makes it a bit less effective, at least for me. Regarding the Emperor, I think everything you said makes complete sense but it probably would have been cooler if they just kept it simple and stuck with Vader killing the Emperor for good back in ROTJ. I also think that, while having Rey be a Palpatine doesn't completely ruin the ideas and themes of TLJ, it would have been cooler if Rey stayed as no one.

I didn't utterly 'hate' the sequel series.....I actually thought that The Last Jedi was a really good stand alone movie and wasn't upset with how they handled Luke at all.

My issue with them is pretty much what  has been beat to death already.....the lack of planning a comprehensive and thought out three movie arc. It's painfully obvious they didn't and each movie suffered due to that and the SW story itself suffered. No excuse for what happened there. They're 'fun' movies and all but the potential was there for something great and they completely screwed the pooch on it.

And.....I wasn't sold on Rey being as powerful and 'all that' as she was made out to be. They did nothing to make me buy into it.  No, I don't hate women or any of the other criticisms that are flung at people with that opinion.....I just don't think they did a good job of 'building' her into what they wanted her to be. And, that was part of the failure in that sequel trilogy. Her arc wasn't earned IMO.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on April 11, 2023, 03:18:25 PM
You guys have made some nice, insightful comments . . . in the end it’s always the battle for money that trumps everything, even if it undermines awesome character moments from previous canonized films.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on April 12, 2023, 07:49:11 AM
Damn nice episode, lot of action along with some predictable silliness and strategy. Overall I liked that episode a lot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on April 12, 2023, 09:10:11 AM
Not to defend the Sequel Trilogy, but the way I see it is, if it weren't for Anakin saving Luke in ROTJ, then Luke would not have been around to set in motion the events that created by Kylo Ren/First Order, as well as Rey's rise to power as a new Jedi. Anakin's actions in ROTJ definitely helped with putting a definitive end to the Emperor and the Sith, so he did indirectly help. I think having a Force Ghost Anakin (especially one made of dust and sand LOL) would've been SUPER cheesy and taken away from Rey's and Ben's stories (for what they're worth, anyway). It wasn't perfect, but it definitely saw the culmination of the Skywalker bloodline with Ben turning to help defeat Palpatine, much in the same way that Anakin turned to defeat him in ROTJ.

-Marc.
I think this is a bit of a recurring problem with Rise of Skywalker. It doesn't completely invalidate what came before but it definitely makes it a bit less effective, at least for me. Regarding the Emperor, I think everything you said makes complete sense but it probably would have been cooler if they just kept it simple and stuck with Vader killing the Emperor for good back in ROTJ. I also think that, while having Rey be a Palpatine doesn't completely ruin the ideas and themes of TLJ, it would have been cooler if Rey stayed as no one.

I didn't utterly 'hate' the sequel series.....I actually thought that The Last Jedi was a really good stand alone movie and wasn't upset with how they handled Luke at all.

My issue with them is pretty much what  has been beat to death already.....the lack of planning a comprehensive and thought out three movie arc. It's painfully obvious they didn't and each movie suffered due to that and the SW story itself suffered. No excuse for what happened there. They're 'fun' movies and all but the potential was there for something great and they completely screwed the pooch on it.

And.....I wasn't sold on Rey being as powerful and 'all that' as she was made out to be. They did nothing to make me buy into it.  No, I don't hate women or any of the other criticisms that are flung at people with that opinion.....I just don't think they did a good job of 'building' her into what they wanted her to be. And, that was part of the failure in that sequel trilogy. Her arc wasn't earned IMO.
Yea, the whole sequel trilogy feels somewhat pointless to me because of the lack of planning and how some of the movies are actively in conflict with each other. :lol

There are some great moments, like Rey finding Luke in VII, the throne room scene in VIII, the Luke-Leia reunion in VIII, Kylo turning to the light side in IX by inverting his actions from VII, and pretty much every Kylo-Rey scene... But it just kind of doesn't matter to me as much as it should because the themes are so jumbled and it's all a bit too similar to the original trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: romdrums on April 12, 2023, 09:49:13 AM
^ ROTJ was my favorite Star Wars movie growing up! Why? The green lightsaber of course! :hat

Whenever I watch it nowadays, I find my opinion of it always worsens just a tad, but there's no doubting it has some incredible moments! The final space battle is still the gold standard!

Oh man, when that green lightsaber lights up for the first time, I imagine 7 year old me went bananas. Such a good decision to cut out that early scene of Luke making his new lightsaber.

46 year old me feels the same as you. It is a movie with great moments, more than it is a great movie. I could critique it, but most everything would be a nitpick, most of them being judgment calls that don't detract from my enjoyment of it. My biggest shift over time was thinking that the section rescuing Han goes on way too long. I don't remember it bothering me at all, until the Special Editions were released and I saw it at that stage in my life.

Yea. I think the Ewok stuff is honestly pretty weird, especially after the darker tone and deeper human emotions of Empire. It's weird seeing teddy bears walk around. :lol It also took me a while to notice that some of the characters, like Han and Vader, kind of don't do anything? They definitely have some cool moments and they have a role to play in the story, it's just that they have nowhere near the presence they had in Empire. Vader pretty much just stands around the whole time and does what the Emperor wants. :millahhhh

But it has a great opening. And a greater closing. And the green lightsaber. So it's all good to me. :hefdaddy

The Ewoks were going to be Wookies initially, but the budget came up short.   ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Elite on April 12, 2023, 01:11:57 PM
I'll be one of the crazy folk who will say The Last Jedi is one of the best Star Wars films. Ep. IX, on the other hand, is hands down the worst.




But, back to The Mandalorian shall we.. crazy episode today, easily the best in Season 3 so far, and a great set-up to what's probably going to be an amazing finale. Lots to unpack in this one, so I won't spoil until US folks have had the chance to watch as well :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on April 12, 2023, 03:15:51 PM
You know, I've still never seen episodes VIII and IX.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 12, 2023, 08:46:50 PM
I enjoyed that episode a lot. I can't believe there's only one left this season.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on April 12, 2023, 09:12:13 PM
I'll be one of the crazy folk who will say The Last Jedi is one of the best Star Wars films. Ep. IX, on the other hand, is hands down the worst.

In the theater, I enjoyed The Last Jedi much more than I did Force Awakens in the theater, and even thought "Now this is more like it!" Then I got home and forgot most of what I had enjoyed while watching it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 12, 2023, 10:47:26 PM
I'll be one of the crazy folk who will say The Last Jedi is one of the best Star Wars films. Ep. IX, on the other hand, is hands down the worst.

In the theater, I enjoyed The Last Jedi much more than I did Force Awakens in the theater, and even thought "Now this is more like it!" Then I got home and forgot most of what I had enjoyed while watching it.

The Last Jedi was the best film of the sequel series. It was just a really good movie across the board…..too bad they didn’t let Rian Johnson just write and direct all three. Good chance it’d have been an epic trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 13, 2023, 05:32:34 AM
I'll be one of the crazy folk who will say The Last Jedi is one of the best Star Wars films. Ep. IX, on the other hand, is hands down the worst.

In the theater, I enjoyed The Last Jedi much more than I did Force Awakens in the theater, and even thought "Now this is more like it!" Then I got home and forgot most of what I had enjoyed while watching it.

The Last Jedi was the best film of the sequel series. It was just a really good movie across the board…..too bad they didn’t let Rian Johnson just write and direct all three. Good chance it’d have been an epic trilogy.
I think if they'd let JJ Abrams write and direct all three it would have been epic as well. The biggest problem was two different writers/directors who didn't agree on the vision and actively worked to undo what the other had done.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ZirconBlue on April 13, 2023, 08:56:40 AM
I'll be one of the crazy folk who will say The Last Jedi is one of the best Star Wars films. Ep. IX, on the other hand, is hands down the worst.

In the theater, I enjoyed The Last Jedi much more than I did Force Awakens in the theater, and even thought "Now this is more like it!" Then I got home and forgot most of what I had enjoyed while watching it.


The Last Jedi was the best film of the sequel series. It was just a really good movie across the board…..too bad they didn’t let Rian Johnson just write and direct all three. Good chance it’d have been an epic trilogy.
I think if they'd let JJ Abrams write and direct all three it would have been epic as well. The biggest problem was two different writers/directors who didn't agree on the vision and actively worked to undo what the other had done.


Abrams is sometimes good at beginnings, but terrible at endings.  He seeds everything with his "mystery boxes", but doesn't know the answers to any of the mysteries.  Even if you have multiple writers and/or directors, someone laying out the overall story for the trilogy was a necessary step they skipped.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 13, 2023, 09:58:37 AM
Honestly, the original plan for Episode 9 sounds way better than what we got. Maybe the problem is the Lucasfilm brass getting themselves too involved.

I sincerely hope that if the Rey movie or the first Jedi move are hoped to set up their own trilogies, that the writers of the initial movies at least sketch out a path for sequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 13, 2023, 10:05:40 AM
Last episode was alright....nice action sequence with that fight at the end. I get bugged by inconsistencies though.....like, when Din and Grogu went to the planet before and even when Bo Katan came to rescue Din.....they didn't need to "clear the landing zone". Seemed like a silly task....then I guess the surviving Mandalorians didn't care to investigate the two times Din/Bo came to the planet? Or didn't notice Moff Gideon building a pretty significant base right under their noses? That kind of stuff bugs me....

I think it's clear at this point that the armorer is working with/for Moff Gideon. She conveniently volunteered to take the injured back to the ships and it was pretty telling when she disputed being part of the Death Watch. She never said 'no I'm not'....she just gave a brief and confusing history lesson. She was wanting Bo Katan to round all the Mandalorians up so it'd be simpler for Gideon to wipe them out.

I'll be disappointed if they drag out the Gideon story arc past this season. This season 'should' end with Bo Katan definitively killing him. He's not a part of the story we know in the future and he's been kind of a side note in this season. we have all the pieces of the story now with Bo Katan filling in the story as to why/how he ended up with the Dark Saber....and it's just set up for that arc to end. Really hoping they don't drag it out.

And, wondering when the Mythosaur will make an appearance? At first I thought whatever that creature was that popped out of the ground was going to be it but I guess it wasn't as they just moved on from it and never mentioned it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 13, 2023, 10:06:41 AM
Honestly, the original plan for Episode 9 sounds way better than what we got. Maybe the problem is the Lucasfilm brass getting themselves too involved.

I sincerely hope that if the Rey movie or the first Jedi move are hoped to set up their own trilogies, that the writers of the initial movies at least sketch out a path for sequels.

Yep....I'll try to find the link, but there is a storyboard version of that out there and it's pretty good. WAY better than what was given to us.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 13, 2023, 10:25:01 AM
Last episode was alright....nice action sequence with that fight at the end. I get bugged by inconsistencies though.....like, when Din and Grogu went to the planet before and even when Bo Katan came to rescue Din.....they didn't need to "clear the landing zone". Seemed like a silly task....then I guess the surviving Mandalorians didn't care to investigate the two times Din/Bo came to the planet? Or didn't notice Moff Gideon building a pretty significant base right under their noses? That kind of stuff bugs me....

I think it's clear at this point that the armorer is working with/for Moff Gideon. She conveniently volunteered to take the injured back to the ships and it was pretty telling when she disputed being part of the Death Watch. She never said 'no I'm not'....she just gave a brief and confusing history lesson. She was wanting Bo Katan to round all the Mandalorians up so it'd be simpler for Gideon to wipe them out.

I'll be disappointed if they drag out the Gideon story arc past this season. This season 'should' end with Bo Katan definitively killing him. He's not a part of the story we know in the future and he's been kind of a side note in this season. we have all the pieces of the story now with Bo Katan filling in the story as to why/how he ended up with the Dark Saber....and it's just set up for that arc to end. Really hoping they don't drag it out.

And, wondering when the Mythosaur will make an appearance? At first I thought whatever that creature was that popped out of the ground was going to be it but I guess it wasn't as they just moved on from it and never mentioned it.
I agree with those criticisms, but they weren't a huge deal to me.

As for Moff Gideon, I think he has to stay the main bad guy until Thrawn shows up. If that happens in Ahsoka and Mando Season 4 picks up from there, then Gideon is unnecessary and can be killed off now. The armorer is definitely shady, but maybe we're supposed to think that and someone else will be the Mandalorian traitor, if there is one.

I was thinking the Mythosaur would show up in the season's finale, but as of right now, that seems too early. I think that needs to be the final reason why Bo-Katan ends up leading a resurgent Mandalore, not putting together a ragtag group of beat up and defeated Mandalorians. Or maybe that's how she frees Din and kills Gideon.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 13, 2023, 10:49:39 AM
How have we not discussed Grogu riding around in IG-12? I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's kind of awesome, but kind of silly at the same time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 13, 2023, 11:02:28 AM
How have we not discussed Grogu riding around in IG-12? I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's kind of awesome, but kind of silly at the same time.

It is silly. I'd think the Pod gives him more mobility and ability to conceal himself.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 13, 2023, 11:47:59 AM
How have we not discussed Grogu riding around in IG-12? I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's kind of awesome, but kind of silly at the same time.

It is silly. I'd think the Pod gives him more mobility and ability to conceal himself.
True, but it also prevents him from really doing anything. IG-12 would at least give him the ability to interact in different ways as he did in this episode. And to potentially fight as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 13, 2023, 04:11:51 PM
Lots of action, lots of good stuff, and some silly or not well-thought-out stuff.  So, par for the course.

Paz got his hero's exit.  That was cool.  I'm still not sure what the deal is with The Armorer.  She kept the covert going single-handedly all this time, but now she's turned?  That doesn't really make sense, and I would have some trouble with it if that's where they're going.  Din again as something of a side player to Bo-Katan's story, but I was okay with that.

I watch with the closed captions on most of the time, including this show, and it amuses me that Din Djarin is still The Mandalorian.  Bo can say something, Paz, Axe, and it's their names.  The Armorer is just The Armorer, but which Din talks it's always The Mandalorian.  Even though we know his name now, and the scene can consist of a dozen characters, all Mandalorians, Din is The Mandalorian.  Yeah, I'm easily amused.

Grogu with his new mech suit is pretty cool.  I like how he broke up the fight between Paz and Axe.  "NO!"  The kid had to stop the grownups from fighting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on April 13, 2023, 04:36:18 PM
In addition to the giant Mythosaur, there's also another humongous creature living underground that survived the bombing. How did they live on the planet before then with that thing, and why do they seem to be attracted to planets with deadly Kaiju on them?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on April 13, 2023, 06:24:03 PM
Fun episode, great action sequence at the end.


Grogu's mech suit is fucking adorable... him stopping the fight was hilarious. I'm fully in with them rolling with this one, hopefully he can channel the force into his suit usage and kick some serious ass soon.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 14, 2023, 07:38:08 AM
I'll be one of the crazy folk who will say The Last Jedi is one of the best Star Wars films. Ep. IX, on the other hand, is hands down the worst.
Neither of those propositions are crazy.  They are 100% accurate.

Pretty good episode, other than Grogu using IG-12 as an Iron Man armor.  I guess next week is the season finale?  Is that right?

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 14, 2023, 08:23:04 AM
I guess next week is the season finale?  Is that right?

Yep.

For me, it's been an underwhelming season. I've really enjoyed the Bo Katan arc. I get that every show out there has 'filler' episodes and content but this season had WAY too much of that type of thing. Lots of wasted screentime and just silly/dumb content.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 14, 2023, 08:35:30 AM
I guess next week is the season finale?  Is that right?

Yep.

For me, it's been an underwhelming season. I've really enjoyed the Bo Katan arc. I get that every show out there has 'filler' episodes and content but this season had WAY too much of that type of thing. Lots of wasted screentime and just silly/dumb content.
I agree this has been the weakest season of The Mandalorian so far, but I've still enjoyed it a lot. I don't feel like there were necessarily filler episodes this season, but more like filler material in general within episodes that didn't add much (like the Jack Black droid investigation stuff). I wish they would just focus on the main plot more and if they're going to mix in filler, have it be something where Din can be a badass fighter. Or have more of him being a mentor and father figure to Grogu.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 14, 2023, 08:40:35 AM
I guess next week is the season finale?  Is that right?

Yep.

For me, it's been an underwhelming season. I've really enjoyed the Bo Katan arc. I get that every show out there has 'filler' episodes and content but this season had WAY too much of that type of thing. Lots of wasted screentime and just silly/dumb content.
I agree this has been the weakest season of The Mandalorian so far, but I've still enjoyed it a lot. I don't feel like there were necessarily filler episodes this season, but more like filler material in general within episodes that didn't add much (like the Jack Black droid investigation stuff). I wish they would just focus on the main plot more and if they're going to mix in filler, have it be something where Din can be a badass fighter. Or have more of him being a mentor and father figure to Grogu.

Yeah, that was what I was getting at. To be clear, I enjoy the heck out of all things SW's. This wasn't a 'bad' season per say but as you mention...it was the weakest of them yet. Still good. The Bo Katan content and character arc was great!!! Just a little too much of the mix in filler and unrelated material for me though to be completely satisfied.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 14, 2023, 09:43:57 AM
I guess I'm the opposite.  While this season hasn't been all thrills and chills, I don't like it when every minute of every episode has to fit into the season-long story arc.  I hate feeling like I'm watching an eight-hour movie in eight installments.  I like the occassional diversion to go deliver frog eggs or save some people from marauding assholes.  Or investigate why droids have been malfunctioning.  I'm in for the world-building, the side characters, and whatever else they want to throw in.  It's Star Wars.  It's fun.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on April 14, 2023, 09:47:29 AM
I guess I'm the opposite.  While this season hasn't been all thrills and chills, I don't like it when every minute of every episode has to fit into the season-long story arc.  I hate feeling like I'm watching an eight-hour movie in eight installments.  I like the occassional diversion to go deliver frog eggs or save some people from marauding assholes.  Or investigate why droids have been malfunctioning.  I'm in for the world-building, the side characters, and whatever else they want to throw in.  It's Star Wars.  It's fun.

I can see that, depends on the show though, for me at least. With Andor there was never any side quests or cute fan service bits, and that was for me the best SW show yet. I loved the tight storytelling, but Mandalorian isn't that type of show, so I'm not expecting it. With someone like Grogu in the mix, the diversity in storytelling is necessary.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 14, 2023, 09:52:33 AM
Okay yeah, Andor was a different type of show, my favorite as well, and in that case I did like that it was one continuous arc.  But it was also broken down into smaller segments, "episodes" of a sort that felt almost like movies.  Episodes 1-3 were an arc, 4-6 were an arc... I forget how the rest broke down, but within the larger story there were breakpoints, and that helped it not feel like it was just one huge story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on April 14, 2023, 09:54:01 AM
Very true. Gotta do a re-watch of that one soon, it was so damn good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 14, 2023, 09:58:16 AM
I did an Andor re-watch a couple months ago.  It was just as awesome as I'd remembered, and even a little better since you could see how a lot of the smaller details fit together and made later events make more sense.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 14, 2023, 10:00:03 AM
I guess I'm the opposite.  While this season hasn't been all thrills and chills, I don't like it when every minute of every episode has to fit into the season-long story arc.  I hate feeling like I'm watching an eight-hour movie in eight installments.  I like the occassional diversion to go deliver frog eggs or save some people from marauding assholes.  Or investigate why droids have been malfunctioning.  I'm in for the world-building, the side characters, and whatever else they want to throw in.  It's Star Wars.  It's fun.
You know... I do enjoy those things, when I enjoy them. The side quests and random world building stuff can be hit or miss. When they miss it makes for a crappy episode. When they hit, it's good. The main plot almost always seems to hit, which leaves me clambering for more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 16, 2023, 03:12:33 PM
Forgot how good the last two Episodes in Season 2 of ‘Rebels’ is…..especially the last one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on April 16, 2023, 06:14:50 PM
Forgot how good the last two Episodes in Season 2 of ‘Rebels’ is…..especially the last one.

Absolute top-tier Star Wars right there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 17, 2023, 07:12:40 AM
Anyone else notice that the meat being roasted for the Mandalorian feast was likely those little baby birds they "rescued" a few episodes ago? I caught it when I was watching and thought it was amusing.

(https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/341333587_2184405875282974_711661856460550186_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3iN725YyYXcAX_qqNcg&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AfD3UPKB9WHzUivSiM8We7zNq-A6LoT1XEhMr4HVV89XtQ&oe=6442ACD3)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 17, 2023, 07:50:04 AM
Amusing indeed!  Also a bit disturbing.  Even if that's the intent, they probably aren't going to confirm this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 17, 2023, 07:59:42 AM
Amusing indeed!  Also a bit disturbing.  Even if that's the intent, they probably aren't going to confirm this.
It is a little disturbing, especially since they called them Foundlings at the time. But honestly this is better than them being ridden my Mandalorians.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 17, 2023, 09:48:11 AM
Anyone else notice that the meat being roasted for the Mandalorian feast was likely those little baby birds they "rescued" a few episodes ago? I caught it when I was watching and thought it was amusing.

(https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/341333587_2184405875282974_711661856460550186_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3iN725YyYXcAX_qqNcg&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AfD3UPKB9WHzUivSiM8We7zNq-A6LoT1XEhMr4HVV89XtQ&oe=6442ACD3)
:clap:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on April 18, 2023, 09:20:10 PM
I don’t know about the Armorer being bad. I don’t quite trust her (and my wife thinks she’s up to no good), but I can’t figure the motive (no idea what the Death Squad is though, so maybe that’s something).

Anyone else think Grogu stayed behind when Din Jarin got caught? I didn’t notice him leave, and it would have been hard for that robot to maneuver through the hole in the wall.

These guys have jet packs, but never seem to use them when they are in trouble. Why didn’t Jumbo just take off when he was surrounded by the storm troopers?

I figure Kim’s Convenience will put two and two together and arrive just in time with a squadron of New Republic fighters to take out the Empire base on Mandalore.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on April 19, 2023, 03:55:00 AM
That was a surprisingly complete ending.  Kindoff devoid of any major shocks, but satisfying enough.  Just feel that maybe the actual finale rather than just the season finale?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on April 19, 2023, 06:16:40 AM
That was a kickass finale, lots of good fights. It looks like they did how Westworld season 4 wrapped up, a finale to close things and at the same time have options open if more seasons are approved. I get the feeling this is it for the Mandalorian and all other shows now take the front stage esp Ahsoka. If anything they probably will have cameos in other shows. Even though it was a somewhat uneven season in terms of the focus, all in all I enjoyed it quite a bit. Easily the weakest of the three but still a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 19, 2023, 09:11:41 AM
That was a surprisingly complete ending.  Kindoff devoid of any major shocks, but satisfying enough.  Just feel that maybe the actual finale rather than just the season finale?

Yeah....it was a 'fitting' finale, especially for this season. Will wait a bit for everyone to watch before saying too much more. With them announcing a 'Mando' movie I'd be surprised if they do another season of 'The Mandalorian'. Especially if 'Ahsoka' is now going to address Thrawn and that aspect...there is the chance for crossover characters in that series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on April 19, 2023, 09:28:37 AM
Anyone else notice that the meat being roasted for the Mandalorian feast was likely those little baby birds they "rescued" a few episodes ago? I caught it when I was watching and thought it was amusing.

(https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/341333587_2184405875282974_711661856460550186_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3iN725YyYXcAX_qqNcg&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AfD3UPKB9WHzUivSiM8We7zNq-A6LoT1XEhMr4HVV89XtQ&oe=6442ACD3)
:clap:

Didn't catch this, but this is great  :lol

I'll finish the season tonight, but add me to the group underwhelmed by this season. I'm not sure a perfect season finale can save it for me, but I still hope it ends in a way that makes me want to continue watching.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 19, 2023, 11:06:19 AM
I'd be surprised if they do another season of 'The Mandalorian'.

Just read that apparently a S4 has already been written and according to insiders they'll begin filming in October. No 'official' word from Disney though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on April 19, 2023, 04:45:45 PM
Really fun finish, classic Star Wars all around. They did wrap it up nicely without going ballistic on anything silly, and left just enough room to expand the show. Curious to see where Ahsoka takes it from here.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 19, 2023, 07:50:43 PM
Never did figure out who "The Spies" (the title of the previous episode) were, and kept expecting some kind of shocking twist, but no, just a bunch of blasting and fighting and ships blowing up and stuff.  Good Star Wars fun.  Main stories all wrapped up, but plenty of options if they want to continue.  No complaints.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 20, 2023, 04:42:16 AM
I think I'm OK with no big twist in the finale. I liked that a lot. A fitting ending, though a Bo and Din smooch would have been fun. :lol

I agree that could have been the finale for the show, not just the season. But we know there is more coming supposedly.  Though viewership has been down this season apparently, so who knows. We'll wait for official word on season 4.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on April 20, 2023, 06:19:24 AM
It was an ok finale. There wasn't another writer's strike was there?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on April 20, 2023, 08:16:32 AM
I didn't care for the finale.  Yeah, it tied up the story, but was so anti-climatic with everything happening as expected.  I can't imagine the whole "spies" thing is never going to come back up though?  Also, Din Grogu  :rollin who comes up with this shit

The sad part is, I feel like there was a really good story in this season that didn't get a chance to play out.  So much potential.

I feel like it's unlikely Moff truly died.  Well, he may have, but I think the focus on the clones of him and his new armor leaves holes for the writers to bring him back. 

If it wasn't for my gf wanting to watch these shows, I don't think I would continue. They ruined a good show with this crap season IMO.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 20, 2023, 09:10:41 AM
Apparently Din is the family name, and his name is Grogu. So Din Grogu is his name after he's adopted. I don't see any issue with that.

I sincerely hope Gideon is dead. I was disappointed he wasn't conclusively shown as dying. Thrawn is the new big baddie. No need for Gideon to come back.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on April 20, 2023, 09:29:10 AM
Apparently Din is the family name, and his name is Grogu. So Din Grogu is his name after he's adopted. I don't see any issue with that.

I find both names to just be too childish and then when they added them (yes, it makes sense) it just made it sound even more dumb to my ears.  It made me laugh so hard.  There's moments in the show of awesome creativity, and moments where I'm just like "who thought of this?!"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 20, 2023, 09:32:56 AM
Apparently Din is the family name, and his name is Grogu. So Din Grogu is his name after he's adopted. I don't see any issue with that.

I find both names to just be too childish and then when they added them (yes, it makes sense) it just made it sound even more dumb to my ears.  It made me laugh so hard.  There's moments in the show of awesome creativity, and moments where I'm just like "who thought of this?!"
Definitely agree with the bolded. But let's be honest, this has been the case since the very beginning on Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on April 20, 2023, 09:39:42 AM
Apparently Din is the family name, and his name is Grogu. So Din Grogu is his name after he's adopted. I don't see any issue with that.

I find both names to just be too childish and then when they added them (yes, it makes sense) it just made it sound even more dumb to my ears.  It made me laugh so hard.  There's moments in the show of awesome creativity, and moments where I'm just like "who thought of this?!"
Definitely agree with the bolded. But let's be honest, this has been the case since the very beginning on Star Wars.

Yes, it's not new but for some reason, this season really bothered me.  It could be from all the star wars content lately so it's just building up. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 20, 2023, 09:44:26 AM
Bo-Katan reuniting the Mandalorian tribes somehow seems like it should have been a bigger deal than what we saw.  But apparently that's done, so... cool.

Moff Gideon finally dying and the Mandalorians taking back their home planet... ditto.  It's done, cool, but almost seemed too by-the-book the way it played out.  They had to fight, they did, and won.  And it was fun, so... cool.

I think Din Grogu is fine.  We didn't know Din Djarin's name for a long time; he was just The Mandalorian.  Nor did we know Grogu's name for a long time; he was just The Child*.  After enough time to acclimate to those names, combining them seemed logical and doesn't bother me.







*The Child.  Never "Baby Yoda".  NEVER!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on April 20, 2023, 10:27:19 AM
I can't wait for him to get his own little Mandalorian armor. :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 20, 2023, 11:35:45 AM
For the season, I enjoyed Bo Katan's arc. She's been such a great character in the animated shows and has translated perfectly to live action. I'd have preferred them to have cut the fat on the filler crap this season and just fill it with more of her and her story. There was just too much filler and useless scenes in this season and it's easily the weakest of the three.


They need to 'get past' Din Grogu being a 'child' in order to be able to integrate him into the story more. He's become Eleven from Stranger Things sitting there with his hand outstretched where his force 'move' is his only move and it's just old and played out. Give the character some vocabulary and mobility. Another season of the wallflower act will be extremely disappointing.

Couple side notes:

- They can repair the broken Dark Saber. I thought it was odd that a saber that has been around for multiple hundreds of years was destroyed like that. I'm sure it's seen it's fair share of abuse and battle. I get they were trying to show the power of that augmented Moff Gideon suit but it was still a bit much for me. By that time the point was made with all the sound effects and abuse the sute was taking that it was 'next level' and powerful. Anyway....we've seen sabers destroyed before and rebuilt so I'd imagine that it'd be no different for the Dark Saber.

- Still no answer or further explanation on what the hell that large creature was that randomly burst through the surface two episodes ago? Seemed odd just to throw that in there then.....nothing?

- One of the nice things about the way they wrapped it up is that if there is a S4 it looks like they could get to a 'show of the week' style format if Din Jarin is just going to be this top tier bounty hunter. I'm sure they'd have an over arching storyline for the season but they've wrapped up all the storylines that were going at this point. Although not having a Moff Gideon death 100% confirmed (no body or didn't really see it) I 'guess' he could still be out there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on April 20, 2023, 11:49:37 AM
I think Din Grogu is fine.  We didn't know Din Djarin's name for a long time; he was just The Mandalorian.  Nor did we know Grogu's name for a long time; he was just The Child*.  After enough time to acclimate to those names, combining them seemed logical and doesn't bother me.

I still called Din, Mando, and I still call Grogu, Baby Yoda.  I think that's part of the problem for me.

- One of the nice things about the way they wrapped it up is that if there is a S4 it looks like they could get to a 'show of the week' style format if Din Jarin is just going to be this top tier bounty hunter. I'm sure they'd have an over arching storyline for the season but they've wrapped up all the storylines that were going at this point. Although not having a Moff Gideon death 100% confirmed (no body or didn't really see it) I 'guess' he could still be out there.

I've seen a theory about Moff saying he didn't have the mustache in his return (or on the clone we saw) so that may have been a clone of him the entire time.  Who knows.  I think they've left a couple ways for Moff to return. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 20, 2023, 01:36:26 PM
I think Din Grogu is fine.  We didn't know Din Djarin's name for a long time; he was just The Mandalorian.  Nor did we know Grogu's name for a long time; he was just The Child*.  After enough time to acclimate to those names, combining them seemed logical and doesn't bother me.

I still called Din, Mando, and I still call Grogu, Baby Yoda.  I think that's part of the problem for me.

I noticed that Karga still calls him Mando, but he's known him a long time and always called him that.  I think Peli Motto also calls him Mando, probably others as well.  He doesn't give his name out very freely, so people just call him Mando because he's a Mandalorian.  I get that.

But "Baby Yoda" makes me want to throw things.  Yes, he's obviously a youngling of the same unnamed species as Yoda, so I get how people came up with it, but he's not the same person.  He's not "Baby" anyone.  He was introduced as The Child so I referred to him as The Child until we found out his name.  Then he was still The Child for a while because Grogu is a weird name, but eventually he became Grogu to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on April 20, 2023, 01:45:17 PM
Yeah, but no one also calls him Grogu (in real life, that is from my experience, I know the show calls him that since his name has been revealed).  I always thought Grogu was a dumb name and just kind of assumed that was why people didn't migrate to calling him by his name.  Baby Yoda had basically caught on and it made sense at the time with no real name to call him.  It obviously doesn't make sense to continue calling him that, but I can't help myself.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 20, 2023, 01:59:32 PM
I call him Grogu
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on April 20, 2023, 02:27:49 PM
I call him Grogu

I, too, call him Grogu. Calling him "Baby Y*da" is like calling that kid at the end of The Last Jedi "Baby Luke". Just because he's a younger version of a similar species. Of course, if Grogu was female, would we be calling her "Baby Yaddle"? Would the average SW fan even KNOW who Yaddle is?

Grogu is a fine enough name. I think it's been long enough now that folks should be used to it.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on April 21, 2023, 03:44:25 AM
Should have got all the Mando factions to Mand'alor a few episodes earlier, although I enjoy these final two episodes everything felt rather rushed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 21, 2023, 07:57:35 AM
Yeah, that's really what kept it from being more meaningful; everything felt rushed.  Reuniting the clans was a big thing, but it happened quickly and we moved on.  Relighting the great forge should have been a big thing, but it happened and we moved on.  The Darksaber being destroyed should have been a big thing, but it happened and we moved on... You get the idea.  There were some things that the story's been building towards this whole season, and taking a moment to let it sink in and appreciate the moment seems like it would've helped.  But instead, everything felt a bit rushed.  And the episode itself wasn't overlong; the previous episode was 12 minutes longer.  At 39 minutes, this was one of the shorter episodes this season.  They could've let this one breathe a little bit more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 21, 2023, 08:43:19 AM
Should have got all the Mando factions to Mand'alor a few episodes earlier, although I enjoy these final two episodes everything felt rather rushed.

Yeah, that's really what kept it from being more meaningful; everything felt rushed.  Reuniting the clans was a big thing, but it happened quickly and we moved on.  Relighting the great forge should have been a big thing, but it happened and we moved on.  The Darksaber being destroyed should have been a big thing, but it happened and we moved on... You get the idea.  There were some things that the story's been building towards this whole season, and taking a moment to let it sink in and appreciate the moment seems like it would've helped.  But instead, everything felt a bit rushed.  And the episode itself wasn't overlong; the previous episode was 12 minutes longer.  At 39 minutes, this was one of the shorter episodes this season.  They could've let this one breathe a little bit more.

And this is what's frustrating about having 95% of an episode dedicated to useless and horribly acted hollywood cameo's and a rudimentary detective story....or an entire episode focused on Dr. Pershing that meant absolutely nothing. Like, nothing. Everything in that episode could have been covered in a two minute dialogue sequence. The best shows out there 'trim the fat' and make every scene count. This season of this show contained WAY too much crap that meant nothing.

Those two 'beast' battles...one by water...one by air....on the Mandolorian hideout planet were useless. Just an action spectacle of which the time could have been better spent on strengthening other storylines or adding detail to them. Plus, they were pretty lame sequences anyway that did nothing but show how inept those soldiers were. Anyway....the point is this season wasted a ton of screentime on stuff that simply was a waste of time and meant nothing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 21, 2023, 09:01:03 AM
I call bullshit on the Darksaber being destroyed like that.

Otherwise, mostly enjoyable finale.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 21, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
I call bullshit on the Darksaber being destroyed like that

That's what I was saying in an earlier post. That thing has seen Centuries of battles....against stronger opponents that Gideon and his strong suite of armor. I 'get' that they were trying to show how much more strong he was in the suite but destroying the Dark Saber seemed like it was going over the top.

Certainly it's repairable and luckily Bo Katan knows a couple of the remaining Jedi who 'could' repair it. And, the droid in the Ahsoka trailer is Professor Huyang.....who, helps all the Jedi younglings craft and build their first Light Sabers so...maybe there's a tie in there?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 21, 2023, 09:22:32 AM
Repairable or not, he shouldn't have been able to break it.

The screenwriters have been watching too many Marvel films.  Gideon isn't Iron Man.  The armor doesn't convey any extra powers, or at least it wasn't stated that it did.  It's made of beskar, so it's really tough and durable.  That's it.  And there's no way he was physically strong enough himself to crush that saber handle.  Nope.  Bullshit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on April 21, 2023, 09:27:13 AM
Repairable or not, he shouldn't have been able to break it.

The screenwriters have been watching too many Marvel films.  Gideon isn't Iron Man.  The armor doesn't convey any extra powers, or at least it wasn't stated that it did.  It's made of beskar, so it's really tough and durable.  That's it.  And there's no way he was physically strong enough himself to crush that saber handle.  Nope.  Bullshit.

Maybe the Moff we saw was a clone with more strength.  I do agree though, it shouldn't of broke so easily
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 21, 2023, 09:37:06 AM
Repairable or not, he shouldn't have been able to break it.

The screenwriters have been watching too many Marvel films.  Gideon isn't Iron Man.  The armor doesn't convey any extra powers, or at least it wasn't stated that it did.  It's made of beskar, so it's really tough and durable.  That's it.  And there's no way he was physically strong enough himself to crush that saber handle.  Nope.  Bullshit.
Didn't you hear the robot motor sounds as he was moving? The suit clearly was intended to provide extra strength.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 21, 2023, 09:47:52 AM
Repairable or not, he shouldn't have been able to break it.

The screenwriters have been watching too many Marvel films.  Gideon isn't Iron Man.  The armor doesn't convey any extra powers, or at least it wasn't stated that it did.  It's made of beskar, so it's really tough and durable.  That's it.  And there's no way he was physically strong enough himself to crush that saber handle.  Nope.  Bullshit.
Didn't you hear the robot motor sounds as he was moving? The suit clearly was intended to provide extra strength.
I heard the darksaber breaking.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 21, 2023, 10:09:26 AM
Repairable or not, he shouldn't have been able to break it.

The screenwriters have been watching too many Marvel films.  Gideon isn't Iron Man.  The armor doesn't convey any extra powers, or at least it wasn't stated that it did.  It's made of beskar, so it's really tough and durable.  That's it.  And there's no way he was physically strong enough himself to crush that saber handle.  Nope.  Bullshit.

Maybe the Moff we saw was a clone with more strength.  I do agree though, it shouldn't of broke so easily

This is a pretty popular theory making the rounds right now. There were notable physical differences with Iron Man Gideon than the one we were introduced to. No mustache....his skin tone was 'lighter'.....the speculation is that the Gideon we saw this season was always a clone.

Didn't you hear the robot motor sounds as he was moving? The suit clearly was intended to provide extra strength.[/quote]

This is how I took it as well. They made a pretty good effort to exaggerate the sound of every one of his movements. Now, I don't know how that translates to grip strength....I'll have to watch again to see if he had gloves on that could have been part of the suit. Either way....I'm with Hef in saying it's shenanigans that the Dark Saber was destroyed so easily or at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 21, 2023, 10:40:16 AM
Repairable or not, he shouldn't have been able to break it.

The screenwriters have been watching too many Marvel films.  Gideon isn't Iron Man.  The armor doesn't convey any extra powers, or at least it wasn't stated that it did.  It's made of beskar, so it's really tough and durable.  That's it.  And there's no way he was physically strong enough himself to crush that saber handle.  Nope.  Bullshit.
Didn't you hear the robot motor sounds as he was moving? The suit clearly was intended to provide extra strength.
I heard the darksaber breaking.

In several scenes prior to that, when we the viewers were close enough to Gideon, you could hear servo motors and hydraulics when he moved.  It wasn't just armor; it was a mech suit.  That's what people are referring to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 21, 2023, 11:18:35 AM
I don't like it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on April 21, 2023, 06:52:23 PM
I have no idea where to put this video. Star Wars thread? Things That Made Me Happy thread? Awesome Videos thread? This could be the greatest thing I've ever seen, certainly the most nostalgic, mashing up my two favorite franchises from my youth.

https://youtu.be/sWR0_0YaEzI
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on April 21, 2023, 08:24:43 PM
Finale had good entertainment value, but seemed like the show ended abruptly without addressing many of the open story lines from prior episodes. I guess it might be setting up other serieses, but that seems an odd use of a limited amount of season time. Like, why did they have Kim’s Convenience guy discover the wrecked shuttle where they sprung Moth Man and the whole traces of bexar if he wasn’t going to do anything about it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on April 22, 2023, 06:06:50 AM
And this is what's frustrating about having 95% of an episode dedicated to useless and horribly acted hollywood cameo's and a rudimentary detective story....or an entire episode focused on Dr. Pershing that meant absolutely nothing. Like, nothing. Everything in that episode could have been covered in a two minute dialogue sequence. The best shows out there 'trim the fat' and make every scene count. This season of this show contained WAY too much crap that meant nothing.

Those two 'beast' battles...one by water...one by air....on the Mandolorian hideout planet were useless. Just an action spectacle of which the time could have been better spent on strengthening other storylines or adding detail to them. Plus, they were pretty lame sequences anyway that did nothing but show how inept those soldiers were. Anyway....the point is this season wasted a ton of screentime on stuff that simply was a waste of time and meant nothing.

This is my beef with the season as a whole.  1/2 of it was pretty good; the other 1/2 was absolutely useless and meaningless.

I was partly expecting the Mythosaur to give us a wink as the final scene.  Why introduce that, and do abso-fucking-lutely nothing with it?

I have no idea where to put this video. Star Wars thread? Things That Made Me Happy thread? Awesome Videos thread? This could be the greatest thing I've ever seen, certainly the most nostalgic, mashing up my two favorite franchises from my youth.

https://youtu.be/sWR0_0YaEzI

Flawless victory.  :clap:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on April 22, 2023, 07:36:11 AM
I have no idea where to put this video. Star Wars thread? Things That Made Me Happy thread? Awesome Videos thread? This could be the greatest thing I've ever seen, certainly the most nostalgic, mashing up my two favorite franchises from my youth.

https://youtu.be/sWR0_0YaEzI

Better than I expected!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 22, 2023, 07:44:38 AM
My homemade beskar's forge

(https://i.ibb.co/4f5TbKv/Captura-de-pantalla-2023-04-22-a-la-s-09-43-04.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 23, 2023, 07:52:12 AM
I've been thinking about the decision to reunite Mando and Grogu in Boba Fett, and the more I think about it, the more I think it was a horrible decision. If the rumors are correct that Kathleen Kennedy made this demand, this shows terrible leadership putting a cute marketable character over making a better story. I know there have been calls for her firing for a long time.

Here's my main thought: it would have been easy to have some flashes to Luke and Grogu training every couple episodes. Mando's visit to see Grogu and give him the mail shirt could have taken place mid-season. I've envisioned them reuniting in episode 7 before going to Mandalore. When Gideon is threatening Grogu in episode 8 having Din say something like "Leave my son alone" or something like that. How much more impactful would his adoption of Grogu had been if he simply called him his son instead of asking to adopt him like he did.

Grogus powers could also have increased greatly with longer training with Luke (they should have made it clear he was there for many months or years). I think Grogu should have played a bigger role in defeating the red guards, who showed themselves to be pretty badass an episode earlier, but were defeated too easily by Din. I think it would have been great to see Grogu use the force to kick ass and save Din when he'd had his helmet removed by the red guys and they were about to kill him. Having Grogu speak "no" and them flinging them all back against the wall or something would have been great. Grogu needs to start doing something more than just looking cute and doing minor force powers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on April 24, 2023, 08:14:40 AM
Finale had good entertainment value, but seemed like the show ended abruptly without addressing many of the open story lines from prior episodes. I guess it might be setting up other serieses, but that seems an odd use of a limited amount of season time. Like, why did they have Kim’s Convenience guy discover the wrecked shuttle where they sprung Moth Man and the whole traces of bexar if he wasn’t going to do anything about it?

I am hoping, in the end, this was a lot of set up for the next season.  But that last scene makes me feel like the show may make a bit of a plot change? There's also rumors going around now that the next season is based on a scrapped Star Wars show?  My issue if that's true, is that the writing has already taken a hit and scrambling to combine a different show into Mando to make use of the script kind of sounds like it'll only make the writing worse. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 24, 2023, 08:37:27 AM
If the rumors are correct that Kathleen Kennedy made this demand, this shows terrible leadership putting a cute marketable character over making a better story. I know there have been calls for her firing for a long time.

I personally believe them and my reasoning is because they are persistent...across the board with all SW's projects. She F'd up the sequel series and has tried her best to F up the Mandalorian. It makes you wonder as to how she's retained her position with such a rich history of not knowing what the Fu%k she's doing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 24, 2023, 10:11:25 AM
I have no idea where to put this video. Star Wars thread? Things That Made Me Happy thread? Awesome Videos thread? This could be the greatest thing I've ever seen, certainly the most nostalgic, mashing up my two favorite franchises from my youth.

https://youtu.be/sWR0_0YaEzI
I absolutely LOVE that, but I'm curious, how in the world did this 13 year old video come to your attention?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ZirconBlue on April 24, 2023, 02:08:13 PM
Never did figure out who "The Spies" (the title of the previous episode) were, and kept expecting some kind of shocking twist, but no, just a bunch of blasting and fighting and ships blowing up and stuff.  Good Star Wars fun.  Main stories all wrapped up, but plenty of options if they want to continue.  No complaints.


Seen on another website:
Quote
“The Spies,” may have been a reference to the story of the The Twelve Spies, in which a group of Israelites explore the desert to find a new home after leaving Egypt—you know, like the Mandalorians were doing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on April 24, 2023, 02:30:00 PM
Or "the spies" were the woman on Coruscant that was spying for Gideon. And R5 who was spying for the New Republic guy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 24, 2023, 02:32:26 PM
I doubt very, very seriously it has anything to do with the Twelve Spies.  That is grasping at straws.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on April 24, 2023, 09:13:29 PM
I have no idea where to put this video. Star Wars thread? Things That Made Me Happy thread? Awesome Videos thread? This could be the greatest thing I've ever seen, certainly the most nostalgic, mashing up my two favorite franchises from my youth.

https://youtu.be/sWR0_0YaEzI
I absolutely LOVE that, but I'm curious, how in the world did this 13 year old video come to your attention?

Oh, the mysteries of YouTube. I have not searched videos related to either topic within recent memory. Sometimes, you just strike gold in your feed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 24, 2023, 11:07:34 PM
Just want to encourage anyone who hasn’t watched ‘Rebels’ to do themselves a favor and watch it. I’m enjoying the heck out of this rewatch I’m doing. Just finished S3…..onto S4. Such a good series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ZirconBlue on April 25, 2023, 12:45:52 PM
I doubt very, very seriously it has anything to do with the Twelve Spies.  That is grasping at straws.


Apparently, there's a whole lot of Jewish parallels in the Mandalorian.  See here for one such discussion. (https://www.themarysue.com/as-passover-ends-lets-talk-about-how-the-mandalorians-are-space-jews/)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 25, 2023, 01:45:55 PM
I doubt very, very seriously it has anything to do with the Twelve Spies.  That is grasping at straws.


Apparently, there's a whole lot of Jewish parallels in the Mandalorian.  See here for one such discussion. (https://www.themarysue.com/as-passover-ends-lets-talk-about-how-the-mandalorians-are-space-jews/)
That's a little bit of hooey.  People see what they want to see.

I don't see any way, for instance, that the mythosaur (revered by the Mandalorians) is a stand-in for Leviathan (a primeval enemy of God).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on April 25, 2023, 01:54:45 PM
I doubt very, very seriously it has anything to do with the Twelve Spies.  That is grasping at straws.


Apparently, there's a whole lot of Jewish parallels in the Mandalorian.  See here for one such discussion. (https://www.themarysue.com/as-passover-ends-lets-talk-about-how-the-mandalorians-are-space-jews/)

Haven't read, but I think Jon Favreua is jewish as well (if that means anything).

Since the whole "spies" thing has been left open, I think different ideas for the meaning seem reasonable for discussion until there's an explanation.  Not sure I believe it myself, I'm leaning more towards a poorly written season.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on April 25, 2023, 09:58:28 PM
Steve Vai was also Budnick’s favorite guitarist on Salute Your Shorts.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ronnibran on May 05, 2023, 07:49:34 PM
So excited.  Maybe this is common knowledge amongst most Star Wars fan but I just found out about this today after spending the last couple decades bitching about all the changes Lucas made to the OT movies...

Apparently in the mid 2000's there was a DVD release of the OT ("special edition") which had the original theatrical versions as a "bonus feature" on disc 2.  I just bought all 3 on ebay.  I can't wait to watch.  Makes me sick to my stomach that I've seen the "special" versions so many times over the years but now that era comes to an end.  I've always thought that the only digital versions available were laserdisc.

Anybody else have these versions?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 05, 2023, 09:34:50 PM
I remember when these were released. I was a bit maxed out on SW content at the time so never bothered to buy them. I seem to recall that SW purists found something technical to dislike about these releases but I can't remember what it was.

I haven't watched Eps 4-6 in so long. I have been talking to my kid about watching them together. She watched Ep4 in class but she said she wanted to watch it again without the distractions. It didn't occur to me at the time which version we'd watch. I don't own any so figured we'd default to whatever is on Disney+.

For as much as SW meant to me as a child (and young adult) the Special Editions don't bother me at this stage in my life. I just accept them for what they are. I will say, as I have said elsewhere, that the SEs were released at a horrible period in my life. Being born in 1977 my only memories of watching them were on the TV. Finding out I'd be able to see them on the big screen meant mountains to me. It was as much as I had to look forward to as anything. The VHS tapes were the first and maybe still the only time I ever pre-ordered anything in my life.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on May 05, 2023, 09:35:31 PM
I don't have those versions but you have to temper your expectations on those. Yes they are the theatrical releases but they are very rough looking from what I read, they are sourced from the laserdisc and low resolution.

I personally watch the de-specialized editions which are fan cleaned up versions of the original trilogy and is the closest to what you'll get to the theatrical release. I actually don't find the changes awful, they're just very distracting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 05, 2023, 09:38:57 PM
I actually don't find the changes awful, they're just very distracting.

That is a good way to put it. Most changes that people dislike call attention to themselves. The best ones are subtle enough you might not even notice if you aren't paying attention and have a photographic memory of the originals.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on May 05, 2023, 09:46:31 PM
Agreed, I think the changes and upgrades done in the 1982 Blade Runner is the best example of how to keep it subtle and not take anything away from the original, they added CGI, effects, new edits and sounds to make the original look a lot less rough. They cleaned up many of the shaky pans and zooms, made some of the sound clearer, made some of the old visual effects look sharper, etc.. None of it was distracting. When I watched the behind the scenes documentary I was amazed at how much new work actually went into the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 06, 2023, 10:01:12 AM
Was able to watch the first Episode of S2 of Visions. Pretty neat....liked it a lot. Gonna try to run through these later tonight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on May 06, 2023, 01:51:41 PM
I don’t know if my parents still have the old VHS recordings (off TV) we had of the originals. I’m sure they would be barely watchable even I had the equipment to play them. Does make me a little sad that you can’t really ever see those versions anymore.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 08, 2023, 08:53:57 AM
Was able to watch the first Episode of S2 of Visions. Pretty neat....liked it a lot. Gonna try to run through these later tonight.
I watched that episode as well.  Pretty cool.  I loved that animation style.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 08, 2023, 11:37:01 AM
Was able to watch the first Episode of S2 of Visions. Pretty neat....liked it a lot. Gonna try to run through these later tonight.
I watched that episode as well.  Pretty cool.  I loved that animation style.

That’s one of the draws for Visions…..some alternative animation styles that are pretty cool. I’ve gotten through a couple more. Neat stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 08, 2023, 11:38:44 AM
I may skip around, because I know that some of the styles won't be to my liking.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 16, 2023, 10:19:57 PM
Finished my rewatch of REBELS. I’ve said it a hundred times but I’ll say it again…..such a good show. I implore any of you who have not watched it to do so. Especially if you plan to watch the live action Ashoka series. I know they say you won’t need to have watched Rebels to understand/enjoy Ashoka but I guarantee the show will be better if you do.

Especially having that backstory of Sabine and Hera…..Chopper to bolster their presence in live action…plus, it’s good SW’s content.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Grappler on May 17, 2023, 11:36:14 AM
Finished my rewatch of REBELS. I’ve said it a hundred times but I’ll say it again…..such a good show. I implore any of you who have not watched it to do so. Especially if you plan to watch the live action Ashoka series. I know they say you won’t need to have watched Rebels to understand/enjoy Ashoka but I guarantee the show will be better if you do.

Especially having that backstory of Sabine and Hera…..Chopper to bolster their presence in live action…plus, it’s good SW’s content.

I'm watching Rebels for the first time and am about halfway through the third season.  I've really enjoyed it, and almost every episode has some  tense action. 

I started watching Clone Wars, but I was bored senseless during the first season.  I think it's because I know what happens via Episodes II and III, so there's no stakes.  It's one failed battle against Grevious following another.  Plus there's just too much there to watch if I were to tackle the entire series.  I'm content with finishing Rebels in the next few weeks. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 18, 2023, 10:07:35 PM
Clone Wars is a chore but totally worth it. Especially the later seasons. They give actual backstory and develop Anakin and Obi Wan so well. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…..Clone Wars Anakin IS Anakin…….Hayden Christiansen’s prequel portrayal should just be overlooked and filed away as ‘nice try’.

He has stated that he watched the entire series a few times prior to filming ‘Kenobi’ and based his performance in his return off of TCW’s Anakin. And it was noticeable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 22, 2023, 01:39:50 PM
Posted in the celebrity death thread....but....Ray Stevenson dead at 58.....wow


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12112215/Ray-Stevenson-dies-58-Irish-actor-starred-Punisher-War-Zone-Marvels-Thor-movies.html


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: faizoff on May 22, 2023, 01:46:46 PM
Saw that, what a major bummer. He was great in so many movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: MirrorMask on June 01, 2023, 05:47:52 AM
Late to the party, but now that I have DisneyPlus, I got to watch the mini series about Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Well, it was good, but it was kinda pointless. It was great to see Ewan McGregor reprising the role, and also Hayden Christensen finally got a chance to play Vader again - their fight scene with the half broken helmet was so badass and memorable.

Having said that, it kinda cheapens (even more) what those two characters did in A New Hope. That was supposed to be their first meeting since falling apart, but the original trilogy messed it up. "When I left you I was but the apprentice, now I'm the master". Well, dude... HE left YOU. For dead. To burn away near a river of lava with your limbs chopped off. And now we know they met again a decade later, and Obi Wan kicked his ass once again? and twice in a row he couldn't muster up the courage to kill him and finish him for good?

I can pass over Obi-Wan meeting young Luke, it's not that a kid can remember 10 years later of a random geezer that once showed up at his house for 5 minutes, but all these Obi-Wan / Vader interaction expose the absence of a long plan for A New Hope even more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2023, 07:12:23 AM
I tend to agree with your assessment it was fun, but unnecessary. I wish that something had prevented Obi-Wan from killing Vader rather than him just walking away again. And Vader should have unceremoniously killed Reva at that one part instead of leaving her for dead. But it was a fun series and it was great to see Ewan and Hayden together again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2023, 08:34:58 AM
And Vader should have unceremoniously killed Reva at that one part instead of leaving her for dead.

He did....violently. And, he had a much more violent and disturbing murdering walk through the town also BUT then Kathleen Kennedy and the Disney brass made them reshoot it to be less gritty and violent. The whole Reeva character shouldn't even have been a thing anyway. Besides the fact he shoved a light saber through her so that was a death blow. But for some reason that doesn't kill people anymore? Reeva was a poorly written and pointless character......there was an already established hierarchy of inquisitors that could and should have been more heavily featured. We had this argument/debate some time ago....but....and I'm not trying to be a jerk or bigot or anything.....Reeva was there simply to feature a black woman. It's another example of Disney checking a box rather than telling a good story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2023, 11:52:13 AM
And Vader should have unceremoniously killed Reva at that one part instead of leaving her for dead.

He did....violently. And, he had a much more violent and disturbing murdering walk through the town also BUT then Kathleen Kennedy and the Disney brass made them reshoot it to be less gritty and violent. The whole Reeva character shouldn't even have been a thing anyway. Besides the fact he shoved a light saber through her so that was a death blow. But for some reason that doesn't kill people anymore? Reeva was a poorly written and pointless character......there was an already established hierarchy of inquisitors that could and should have been more heavily featured. We had this argument/debate some time ago....but....and I'm not trying to be a jerk or bigot or anything.....Reeva was there simply to feature a black woman. It's another example of Disney checking a box rather than telling a good story.
Yes, we discussed it a while back, but what the hell...

I thought the idea of her character was OK. Her trying to get close to Vader to kill him while he was aware the whole time what was going on. Could have been interesting if executed better. Vader actually killing her, even in a less brutal way, would have been way more satisfying than what we got. I'm not going to guess at Lucasfilm's intentions about race or gender. They tried to introduce a new character with a potentially interesting backstory and they blew it. Kathleen Kennedy needs to go at this point. They need to let the filmmakers make the films they want and stop meddling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2023, 01:17:42 PM
And Vader should have unceremoniously killed Reva at that one part instead of leaving her for dead.

He did....violently. And, he had a much more violent and disturbing murdering walk through the town also BUT then Kathleen Kennedy and the Disney brass made them reshoot it to be less gritty and violent. The whole Reeva character shouldn't even have been a thing anyway. Besides the fact he shoved a light saber through her so that was a death blow. But for some reason that doesn't kill people anymore? Reeva was a poorly written and pointless character......there was an already established hierarchy of inquisitors that could and should have been more heavily featured. We had this argument/debate some time ago....but....and I'm not trying to be a jerk or bigot or anything.....Reeva was there simply to feature a black woman. It's another example of Disney checking a box rather than telling a good story.
Yes, we discussed it a while back, but what the hell...

I thought the idea of her character was OK. Her trying to get close to Vader to kill him while he was aware the whole time what was going on. Could have been interesting if executed better. Vader actually killing her, even in a less brutal way, would have been way more satisfying than what we got. I'm not going to guess at Lucasfilm's intentions about race or gender. They tried to introduce a new character with a potentially interesting backstory and they blew it. Kathleen Kennedy needs to go at this point. They need to let the filmmakers make the films they want and stop meddling.

I agree about the 'intent' behind her character....but I just don't think she was needed, especially given how badly they wrote and presented her. Even as an inquisitor she was pretty weak as far as skill and force use. The race/gender conversation could be had for some time and go back and forth....I just base it off of what I've seen from Disney over the last handful of years. There's a definite push for female and non white actors/actresses in these stories. I'm not saying that's a bad thing per say....I'm just saying that in my eyes they've sacrificed storytelling at times for that agenda. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Zook on June 03, 2023, 02:25:53 PM
Then you think about it and realize, while she was secretly on a mission to kill Vader, she was also killing Jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on June 05, 2023, 12:43:11 PM
Finally getting around to watching Andor . . . been hearing great things so here we go. Through 2 episodes so far, hoping it picks up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on June 05, 2023, 12:55:38 PM
It does, a lot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: XJDenton on June 07, 2023, 08:16:22 AM
I agree about the 'intent' behind her character....but I just don't think she was needed, especially given how badly they wrote and presented her. Even as an inquisitor she was pretty weak as far as skill and force use. The race/gender conversation could be had for some time and go back and forth....I just base it off of what I've seen from Disney over the last handful of years. There's a definite push for female and non white actors/actresses in these stories. I'm not saying that's a bad thing per say....I'm just saying that in my eyes they've sacrificed storytelling at times for that agenda. 

I don't think the inclusivity push is the reason for the bad storytelling, its more a function of these star wars stories being driven by the need to tie into the greater "cinematic universe" narrative and that Disney is, in general,  risk adverse when it comes to the stories it pushes, and being far more willing to be guided by "the market" than by a singular creative vision like George was.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 15, 2023, 11:51:26 AM
Clone Wars aficionados, does anyone have a good list of the must see episodes? My son and I are watching through all thing Star Wars, but don't feel the need to watch the entire Clone Wars series since it would probably take us years. I've found several lists online, but they vary a lot which makes me think the essential episodes are pretty subjective.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 15, 2023, 03:03:49 PM
Clone Wars aficionados, does anyone have a good list of the must see episodes? My son and I are watching through all thing Star Wars, but don't feel the need to watch the entire Clone Wars series since it would probably take us years. I've found several lists online, but they vary a lot which makes me think the essential episodes are pretty subjective.

Hmmm……there is a good chunk I’d consider watching but you’re right…….the online suggestions can become cumbersome.

I will say that the final four episodes are some of if not the best SW’s content out there. The animation is unreal, the soundtrack…..it’s incredible. But it’s the culmination of the entire series so I don’t know that the payoff would be as good if you were to just watch those.

There’s just so much that happens with the return of Maul, the entire Mandalorian storyline, Ahsoka’s journey….not to mention how well they flush out and give substance to Anakin and Kenobi throughout the whole series…….I can try to take a peek at some lists and maybe edit them down a bit for ya.


I highly recommend Rebels as well. It’s a much simpler watch and it’s pretty balls to the wall from the start.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on June 16, 2023, 05:59:17 AM
Clone Wars aficionados, does anyone have a good list of the must see episodes? My son and I are watching through all thing Star Wars, but don't feel the need to watch the entire Clone Wars series since it would probably take us years. I've found several lists online, but they vary a lot which makes me think the essential episodes are pretty subjective.

Hmmm……there is a good chunk I’d consider watching but you’re right…….the online suggestions can become cumbersome.

I will say that the final four episodes are some of if not the best SW’s content out there. The animation is unreal, the soundtrack…..it’s incredible. But it’s the culmination of the entire series so I don’t know that the payoff would be as good if you were to just watch those.

There’s just so much that happens with the return of Maul, the entire Mandalorian storyline, Ahsoka’s journey….not to mention how well they flush out and give substance to Anakin and Kenobi throughout the whole series…….I can try to take a peek at some lists and maybe edit them down a bit for ya.


I highly recommend Rebels as well. It’s a much simpler watch and it’s pretty balls to the wall from the start.
Agreed on the last 4 episodes of the series. Should have clarified that I've watched the whole series with limited attention. I'm mostly wanting to prepare him for The Mandalorian and Ahsoka shows. We'll definitely just watch all of Rebels since it's a much shorter show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 16, 2023, 08:48:15 AM
I'm mostly wanting to prepare him for The Mandalorian and Ahsoka shows. We'll definitely just watch all of Rebels since it's a much shorter show.

Rebels is the way to go then. I recently did a rewatch and was mad at myself for waiting so long to have done that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 11, 2023, 02:35:36 PM
Final 'Ahsoka' trailer.....it's no wonder Filoni confirmed this show is just a continuation of 'Rebels'.   This looks like it's going to be amazing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1EXWNETiI
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 14, 2023, 08:49:36 AM
Saw this online. Looks like a good cheat sheet for episodes of the animated shows to watch before watching Ahsoka. I'd still recommend watching ALL of 'Rebels'.....I know TCW's is a chore due to sheer number of episodes so maybe this list will help on that.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ke6Yylq.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on July 14, 2023, 09:20:07 AM
I'm watching through Disney+'s suggested list of Clone Wars episodes with my son, which from memory may match those exactly. Then we're going to watch all of Rebels. Hadn't thought of those Tales of the Jedi episodes, but they're short so we should be able to squeeze them in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 14, 2023, 09:23:40 AM
I'm watching through Disney+'s suggested list of Clone Wars episodes with my son, which from memory may match those exactly. Then we're going to watch all of Rebels. Hadn't thought of those Tales of the Jedi episodes, but they're short so we should be able to squeeze them in.

yeah.....they're short and pretty good, particularly the 'Ahsoka' centric ones. I liked the majority of the other episodes but in particular there is an episode with Ankain training Ahsoka that illustrates perfectly how she was able to escape order 66. It was cool to have that info.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on July 14, 2023, 04:38:46 PM
Sigh, I was afraid of this. I slacked off and I really don't want to watch Ahsoka without all the backstory. I was watching Clone Wars as it aired back in the day. I watched the finale of S05 when it aired and was pissed shortly after when Disney canned it. I didn't watch The Lost Episodes, even though I have it on Blu-ray, and never bothered with S07. I avoided Rebels because it was on Disney XD and it looked like a kiddie show. Guess I was wrong.

What I might do it watch the Tales stuff, the Siege of Mandalore and then try and power through Rebels as fast as I can. Of course, I haven't seen Clone Wars since forever so I remember very little outside how it ended.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on July 14, 2023, 05:17:50 PM
I'm even worse off than that.  I watched all the Tales of the Jedi, but otherwise haven't seen more than a few minutes of any of the animated stuff.  At first because I already had more stuff to watch than I had time for, and eventually there just became so much of it that even starting into it seemed daunting.  That list helps narrow things down a lot, but I'm still not sure if I'll do it.

What Filoni and company did really well with The Mandalorian and Boba Fett is not require knowledge of anything beyond what we've seen so far in the given series, but anything else that fans recognize from other series, movies, etc. is a nice bonus.  I'm thinking I'll just go that route with Ahsoka.  I'm sure it'll be good, and I'm trusting them to put together a story that holds water without me having to know the backstory of every guest character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 14, 2023, 06:26:43 PM
He’s said that the story will still be able to be told and understood if you haven’t watched any of the animated stuff. But…..if you have…..then it’s just going to enhance the experience

Rebels is an easy one to jam through because it has great pace and there’s never really a slow down. And, it’s just a really cool story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Grappler on July 14, 2023, 08:28:03 PM
He’s said that the story will still be able to be told and understood if you haven’t watched any of the animated stuff. But…..if you have…..then it’s just going to enhance the experience

Rebels is an easy one to jam through because it has great pace and there’s never really a slow down. And, it’s just a really cool story.

I would agree with this.  Clone Wars bored the shit out of me and there's a ton of episodes to get through, so I skipped it.   Rebels had two shorter seasons and two regular length seasons.  The episodes were 30 minutes and I could watch a handful at a time.  In those 30 minutes, there was a lot of story and a TON of action and tense, exciting moments....which I didn't expect from an animated series.

A bunch of the Rebels characters will be in Ahsoka, so if you were going to watch one of the animated series, that's the one. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on July 14, 2023, 10:51:24 PM
I started tonight. Watched the first 5 Tales episodes and then I actually went back to the last 4 episodes of Season 05 to start with Ahsoka being framed for murder and getting booted from the Order (which is where I stopped back when it aired). Then I just decided to keep going. Already a few into S06. Probably power through most of it this weekend before moving on to Rebels.

I'll probably jump into Bad Batch at some point as well but won't until after I get through Rebels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on July 14, 2023, 11:12:00 PM
I'm only mildly interested in Ashoka, though I imagine we'll try it. Don't have any interest in exploring the animated series. I find myself really annoyed by the head tentacle design of Ashoka's species. It doesn't translate well to live action (looks like a foam prosthetic with creases and everything) and doesn't really make any sense anatomically. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on July 16, 2023, 06:10:22 PM
Wow! Just finished Clone Wars. The Siege of Mandalore 4 episode finale was just epic. Very glad I watched that either way because it was so good. Will be moving onto Rebels next week.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 16, 2023, 10:03:09 PM
Wow! Just finished Clone Wars. The Siege of Mandalore 4 episode finale was just epic. Very glad I watched that either way because it was so good. Will be moving onto Rebels next week.

I’ve said it a hundred times in this thread……those final four episodes of TCW’s is some of…..if not….the best SW’s content made. So freaking good. The score is perfect as well…..sets the atmosphere and just ties the whole thing together.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on July 17, 2023, 08:37:48 AM
Not to mention the completely different way they handled the opening of the shows. The kind of classic Lucasfilm credit, the blood red titles, no narrator, the ominous music. They really gave the sense that these episodes would be very different.

I do have 1 issue with the order posted. I would have put episode 5 of Tales after Clone Wars. They tipped off a huge part of the final episode of Clone Wars at the end of that Tales episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on July 31, 2023, 10:53:24 AM
I'm through Ep 5 of S02 of Rebels. S01 was a tad slow with building the characters and such but it has picked up immensely now. Still not a huge fan of the character animation. I mean, some of what would be CGI looks like a live-action show and then you get these animated characters that do not look as good as the Clone Wars did.

Just saw an interview with Rosario Dawson where she says seeing Rebels is essential to her Ahsoka show and I am starting to see why since Ahsoka has now popped up in Rebels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 31, 2023, 11:30:34 AM
I'm through Ep 5 of S02 of Rebels. S01 was a tad slow with building the characters and such but it has picked up immensely now. Still not a huge fan of the character animation. I mean, some of what would be CGI looks like a live-action show and then you get these animated characters that do not look as good as the Clone Wars did.

Just saw an interview with Rosario Dawson where she says seeing Rebels is essential to her Ahsoka show and I am starting to see why since Ahsoka has now popped up in Rebels.

I read somewhere a while ago that they intentionally implemented a different animation style just to differentiate Rebels from TCW's. You eventually get used to it but it is quite different. And keep in mind....those last four episodes of Clone Wars were created in 2019/2020 after Rebels. Rebels ended in 2018. I utterly LOVE that animation style of S7 of TCW's, especially the last four episodes. But I completely get your point. 

And yes, Filoni has confirmed that the Ahsoka series is essentially Rebels Season 5.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 01, 2023, 01:24:27 PM
I for one am not watching all of those animated episodes.  There is a reason I've never watched them before, and Disney won't market me into watching them now.

I am looking forward to Ahsoka, but if I watch it and can't understand any of it because I haven't seen the animated stuff, that's shitty writing and poor production on Disney's part. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 01, 2023, 01:29:35 PM
It's my understanding that being familiar with 'Rebels' will only enhance the Ahsoka show experience. Filoni has said it is still a story that doesn't require previous knowledge of the animated shows.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on August 01, 2023, 03:37:33 PM
I’ve kinda stalled on Andor, 6 episodes left. Hoping to be blown away considering the hype.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: YtseJam on August 05, 2023, 06:45:02 PM
Blown away? You have high expectations for today's standards.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on August 05, 2023, 06:47:56 PM
I for one am not watching all of those animated episodes.  There is a reason I've never watched them before, and Disney won't market me into watching them now.

What's the reason?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on August 05, 2023, 09:36:25 PM
Wondering that as well. Clone Wars is just a fantastic show. I'm about halfway into S03 of Rebels now and it is excellent as well. Going to jump into Bad Batch when I finish Rebels as I loved them in the Clone Wars episodes they were in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on August 06, 2023, 10:12:51 PM
Finished Rebels tonight. Got pretty dark towards the end there. I then went and watched the two Ahsoka trailers again and, yeah, totally season 5 of Rebels. Even saw a live action recreation of a scene from the finale. Very cool that they got the voice actor for Thrawn to play him. Even Chopper is there.

I think my enjoyment of Ahsoka will be extremely heightened with knowing all of the back story now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on August 07, 2023, 05:42:02 AM
I'm slowly getting there.  I've got the final 4 episodes of TCW to watch, then really gonna try and pound out all of Rebels before the 23rd.  I probably won't make it though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on August 07, 2023, 05:44:32 AM
I'm slowly getting there.  I've got the final 4 episodes of TCW to watch, then really gonna try and pound out all of Rebels before the 23rd.  I probably won't make it though.
I'm in the same boat. Definitely not going to make it through all of Rebels. I'll just hit the Ahsoka highlights.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on August 07, 2023, 08:26:56 AM
I'm slowly getting there.  I've got the final 4 episodes of TCW to watch, then really gonna try and pound out all of Rebels before the 23rd.  I probably won't make it though.
I'm in the same boat. Definitely not going to make it through all of Rebels. I'll just hit the Ahsoka highlights.

I finished those 4 Eps just now.  Pretty fucking great stuff.

As for Rebels... they all look like their 20 mins each (assuming 4 minutes of credits).  75 episodes.  25 hours of watch time.  I think I can swing it ... though, I'm sure I'll get some grief from mrs.jingle.  Might not be able to start Ashoka right on release day, but maybe on the weekend after it drops.

Unless I pull a 'Gary', and binge until 2am every night  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 07, 2023, 08:49:02 AM
As for Rebels... they all look like their 20 mins each (assuming 4 minutes of credits).  75 episodes.  25 hours of watch time.  I think I can swing it ... though, I'm sure I'll get some grief from mrs.jingle.  Might not be able to start Ashoka right on release day, but maybe on the weekend after it drops.

Unless I pull a 'Gary', and binge until 2am every night :biggrin:

You can do it!!


I finished those 4 Eps just now.  Pretty fucking great stuff.

FYI.....that Ahsoka vs Darth Maul fight was filmed live with live action actors and then transferred into animation. Pretty killer scene!

https://youtu.be/7mpZ_rtcUIE


What I loved about the fight itself was that she was tasked with bringing Maul in alive......Maul tells her before they started fighting that the whole things was set up to get Anakin to show up.....and then, shortly into their fight she tells Maul he's lucky Anakin wasn't there. Meaning, she had already had a chance to kill him at that point and passed on it but knew Anakin wouldn't have. And then of course she accomplishes her task...capturing him alive.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on August 07, 2023, 08:56:17 AM
Yeah, I remember seeing some of those bits about that duel.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 08, 2023, 07:21:11 AM
I for one am not watching all of those animated episodes.  There is a reason I've never watched them before, and Disney won't market me into watching them now.

What's the reason?
I am not fond of animated shows.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on August 11, 2023, 09:36:41 PM
I for one am not watching all of those animated episodes.  There is a reason I've never watched them before, and Disney won't market me into watching them now.

What's the reason?
I am not fond of animated shows.

This was one of my reasons for not getting in to them from the start, especially the art style. But also, when it came down to it, at that point in my life I didn't have a desire for any more Star Wars material. For me, SW began with the release of Ep4 and ended with the release of Ep3. I didn't read any novels, or care about the Extended Universe or whatever it was called. My SW plate was full, and I was happy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on August 12, 2023, 02:47:22 PM
Finished the first season of Bad Batch or Clone Wars season 8 as it sort of seems. Loved how the series started with the blood red Clone Wars opening that from those fantastic final episodes and then changed into the Bad Batch logo. Also loved that they had the narrator open that first episode for continuity's sake. Very cool seeing all the tie ins from Clone Wars and Rebels and the actual movies. I loved that the baby Rancor ended up being Jaba's Rancor origin story.

Just got into season 2 and I know there is a third and final one coming. Loving this show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on August 12, 2023, 07:06:35 PM
I'm gonna try to watch some Clone Wars and Rebels episodes before watching Ahsoka.  I've got the list, and Mrs. Orbert joined me today as I re-watched the Tales of the Jedi episodes with Ahsoka.  I'd previously watched all six, but it was still a good refresher.  Hopefully she'll join me for some of the other stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on August 13, 2023, 08:21:18 PM
Okay, so we sat and watched TCW Season 1, Ep 19.  I guess I was expecting some kind of introduction to the character (since it seems like that would be the logical thing to watch first) but instead we were dropped into the middle of a mission and some obvious conflict and some stuff happened that I guess I'm supposed to remember and mentally reference later.  Next up is a similarly "random" episode from Season 2.  Not really random, obviously, since there's a reason why that particular episode was chosen, but I'm not sure about how much this is going to help.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 13, 2023, 08:49:38 PM
Okay, so we sat and watched TCW Season 1, Ep 19.  I guess I was expecting some kind of introduction to the character (since it seems like that would be the logical thing to watch first) but instead we were dropped into the middle of a mission and some obvious conflict and some stuff happened that I guess I'm supposed to remember and mentally reference later.  Next up is a similarly "random" episode from Season 2.  Not really random, obviously, since there's a reason why that particular episode was chosen, but I'm not sure about how much this is going to help.

Which 'guide' were/are you using? Ahsoka is introduced I believe in TCW movie and the first few episodes of the series. I think most of those suggested guides on episodes to watch not only tie into her character...but overarching storylines/characters that may appear in her show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on August 13, 2023, 08:55:14 PM
This one, posted upthread:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ke6Yylq.jpg)

I'd forgotten about the Clone Wars movie.  It makes sense that that's where her character originates.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on August 13, 2023, 09:58:24 PM
This one, posted upthread:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ke6Yylq.jpg)

I'd forgotten about the Clone Wars movie.  It makes sense that that's where her character originates.

What is this, homework? Nah, I’m going into it cold with no knowledge beside the previous appearances in Mandalorian and the Wookiepedia entry I read about the things on her head.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 14, 2023, 06:47:10 AM
This one, posted upthread:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ke6Yylq.jpg)

I'd forgotten about the Clone Wars movie.  It makes sense that that's where her character originates.

What is this, homework? Nah, I’m going into it cold with no knowledge beside the previous appearances in Mandalorian and the Wookiepedia entry I read about the things on her head.

Homework? Not at all really. It’s a suggestion of episodes to watch for those that chose not to ingest all of the SW’s content that has happened over the years in an effort to make viewing the Ahsoka series as beneficial as possible.

Do you ‘need’ to watch all of TCWs and Rebels to enjoy it. Filoni says you don’t. But I guarantee those of us who have will get a different, better experience out of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on August 14, 2023, 07:17:25 AM
I bailed on re-watching all of Rebels.  The first 5 episodes were pretty terrible, tbh.  It was like watching the Three Stooges trying to break into the Three's Company apartment, while being investigated by the keystone cops.  Everyone was inept at everything they did.  Plus, it was going to be virtually impossible to get all of them in before the 23rd.

So I pivoted to just watching the suggested episodes in the graphic.  Very glad I did, there's some excellent stuff there.  I'm just about to start the S3 episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on August 14, 2023, 07:27:29 AM
Okay, so if I were to watch The Clone Wars movie, where does it fit into the cinematic universe?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 14, 2023, 08:03:10 AM
I bailed on re-watching all of Rebels.  The first 5 episodes were pretty terrible, tbh.  It was like watching the Three Stooges trying to break into the Three's Company apartment, while being investigated by the keystone cops.  Everyone was inept at everything they did.  Plus, it was going to be virtually impossible to get all of them in before the 23rd.

So I pivoted to just watching the suggested episodes in the graphic.  Very glad I did, there's some excellent stuff there.  I'm just about to start the S3 episodes.

You gave up way too soon. Yeah, the first half season/season of Rebels takes a bit to establish itself but what show doesn’t? Rebels remains some of the best SWs content out there.


And just to trigger folks…. Chopper bests R2 everyday of the week and twice on Sunday as being ‘the’ mech droid of the SW universe…..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on August 14, 2023, 08:10:34 AM
Chopper is annoying as fuck.  Jingle.son told me he has one of the  highest kill-counts (https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsrebels/comments/57obhv/have_you_added_up_choppers_kill_count_these_last/) of any Star Wars character??   :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 14, 2023, 08:49:06 AM
Chopper is annoying as fuck.  Jingle.son told me he has one of the  highest kill-counts (https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsrebels/comments/57obhv/have_you_added_up_choppers_kill_count_these_last/) of any Star Wars character??   :lol

He’s ruthless.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: axeman90210 on August 14, 2023, 08:50:47 AM
I bailed on re-watching all of Rebels.  The first 5 episodes were pretty terrible, tbh.  It was like watching the Three Stooges trying to break into the Three's Company apartment, while being investigated by the keystone cops.  Everyone was inept at everything they did.  Plus, it was going to be virtually impossible to get all of them in before the 23rd.

So I pivoted to just watching the suggested episodes in the graphic.  Very glad I did, there's some excellent stuff there.  I'm just about to start the S3 episodes.

How good were the S2 finale episodes with Maul and Vader? Some of my absolute favorite SW universe content.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on August 14, 2023, 09:16:20 AM
I bailed on re-watching all of Rebels.  The first 5 episodes were pretty terrible, tbh.  It was like watching the Three Stooges trying to break into the Three's Company apartment, while being investigated by the keystone cops.  Everyone was inept at everything they did.  Plus, it was going to be virtually impossible to get all of them in before the 23rd.

So I pivoted to just watching the suggested episodes in the graphic.  Very glad I did, there's some excellent stuff there.  I'm just about to start the S3 episodes.

How good were the S2 finale episodes with Maul and Vader? Some of my absolute favorite SW universe content.

Yeah, those were pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on August 14, 2023, 09:52:04 AM
Yeah, I think I mentioned that S01 of Rebels was a bit of a drag. End of S01 onward is much better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: cramx3 on August 14, 2023, 03:11:54 PM
Whether it's good or not is not as important as that's a lot of TV suggested to watch.  I will be like HOF and not watch any of that and try out Ahsoka.  They've just milked these shows so bad lately that my expectations are fairly low to start. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on August 21, 2023, 10:32:53 PM
Do we got a separate Ahsoka thread?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 22, 2023, 08:26:14 AM
Do we got a separate Ahsoka thread?

As you can see I went ahead and started one....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Dream Team on August 27, 2023, 03:27:47 PM
I forced myself to finish watching Andor but it did not live up to the hype for me. So many parts were as sloooooooooow as a snail, an injured snail at that. Boring dialogue by boring actors that went on and on and ON. Did I mention there was a lot of talking in this? What’s the famous rule for moviemakers: “Show, don’t tell”. Well that was ignored for this show.

The guy playing Cassian is a terrible actor, he had 1 facial expression the entire 12 episodes. What else? So much time on characters with no payoff. That dweeb’s annoying mother - I figured by the end he’d snap and strangle her but nope, nothing. The ISB sadist and the dweeb just ended with “I should thank you” and then . . . that’s it? They don’t join forces to hunt Cassian down or anything? Saarsgard was good and the woman playing Cassian’s mother was good, but that’s it. Time spent on all those secondary characters would have been great if they were more dynamic actors. The dweeb also only had 1 facial expression.

I’m glad you all enjoyed it but I’m hoping Ahsoka is much better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: coz on August 28, 2023, 12:06:55 AM
Same here, DT.  Except I couldn't finish it.  I finally made it to the heist episode, which was kinda cool.  Then it slowed to a slog again.  Couldn't take it any more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProgMasterMind92 on August 28, 2023, 01:16:10 AM
i tried to get into andor but i gotta admit, i didn't enjoy it much. the politics in the show made me uncomfortable, and it was hard to fully get into the story. i get that star wars often explores different themes, but this one just didn't sit right with me. but i'm glad it wasn't as woke as other recent star wars media even i still didn't really gel with the politics.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on August 28, 2023, 12:19:45 PM
Sorry you guys didn't enjoy it. I thought Andor was peak Star Wars. Really, really good.

On a tangential note: Zack's Snyder's Netflix film Rebel Moon was originally pitched to Lucasfilm as a Star Wars movie, but Lucasfilm declined. I have a feeling that it will be really good while most recent Star Wars output has been mediocre. Not that having a good scifi movie outside of Star Wars is a bad thing. But I fear that it will show again how Lucasfilm's recent handling of Star Wars hasn't been the best. I feel like the Lucasfilm brass doesn't really understand what fans love about Star Wars anymore. Or maybe it will suck and Star Wars fans will be happy Lucasfilm passed. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 28, 2023, 12:42:41 PM
I feel like Rebel Moon will definitely LOOK outstanding, and have incredible visuals, and I can't wait to see it.  But I have no expectations for how good I expect the story to be, other than to be derivative of Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 21, 2023, 10:20:21 PM
I'd heard and seen some things here and there about the original idea for Ep. 9 that Trevorrow had come up with. Found this 13 minute video that runs the script and outline down pretty well. I feel cheated and a bit ticked off but it makes perfect sense that Kathleen Kennedy ruined this. Would have been an infinitely better movie and ending to the sequel movies.

https://youtu.be/h_mLIVoIXM4?si=yGWW7KpjgAbQCBB_
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on September 22, 2023, 06:21:48 AM
I'd heard and seen some things here and there about the original idea for Ep. 9 that Trevorrow had come up with. Found this 13 minute video that runs the script and outline down pretty well. I feel cheated and a bit ticked off but it makes perfect sense that Kathleen Kennedy ruined this. Would have been an infinitely better movie and ending to the sequel movies.

https://youtu.be/h_mLIVoIXM4?si=yGWW7KpjgAbQCBB_
I've seen that in the past. The original plan certainly sounds way better than what we got. Without seeing the end product, we'll never know though. I'm personally surprised Kennedy still has her job after some of the big misfires Lucasfilm has made under her watch. It's clear to virtually everyone that there needs to be a change.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 22, 2023, 08:19:30 AM
It's better than what we got, for sure.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 22, 2023, 09:39:33 AM
I'd heard and seen some things here and there about the original idea for Ep. 9 that Trevorrow had come up with. Found this 13 minute video that runs the script and outline down pretty well. I feel cheated and a bit ticked off but it makes perfect sense that Kathleen Kennedy ruined this. Would have been an infinitely better movie and ending to the sequel movies.

https://youtu.be/h_mLIVoIXM4?si=yGWW7KpjgAbQCBB_
I've seen that in the past. The original plan certainly sounds way better than what we got. Without seeing the end product, we'll never know though. I'm personally surprised Kennedy still has her job after some of the big misfires Lucasfilm has made under her watch. It's clear to virtually everyone that there needs to be a change.

I'm convinced she has damning blackmail information on someone or if not a few people at Lucasfilm. There is no other explanation as to why she's been allowed to almost single-handedly ruin the SW franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on September 22, 2023, 10:05:04 AM
I'd heard and seen some things here and there about the original idea for Ep. 9 that Trevorrow had come up with. Found this 13 minute video that runs the script and outline down pretty well. I feel cheated and a bit ticked off but it makes perfect sense that Kathleen Kennedy ruined this. Would have been an infinitely better movie and ending to the sequel movies.

https://youtu.be/h_mLIVoIXM4?si=yGWW7KpjgAbQCBB_
I've seen that in the past. The original plan certainly sounds way better than what we got. Without seeing the end product, we'll never know though. I'm personally surprised Kennedy still has her job after some of the big misfires Lucasfilm has made under her watch. It's clear to virtually everyone that there needs to be a change.

I'm convinced she has damning blackmail information on someone or if not a few people at Lucasfilm. There is no other explanation as to why she's been allowed to almost single-handedly ruin the SW franchise.
I don't think she's ruined Star Wars. For the most part what's come out under her has been good, with a couple duds in there. The problem for me is that it all could have been great to awesome, or at least noticeably better, if she had demanded a plan for the entire sequel trilogy (that was her biggest mistake in my mind), and stayed out filmmaker's ways and let them tell their story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 22, 2023, 10:10:45 AM
I'd heard and seen some things here and there about the original idea for Ep. 9 that Trevorrow had come up with. Found this 13 minute video that runs the script and outline down pretty well. I feel cheated and a bit ticked off but it makes perfect sense that Kathleen Kennedy ruined this. Would have been an infinitely better movie and ending to the sequel movies.

https://youtu.be/h_mLIVoIXM4?si=yGWW7KpjgAbQCBB_
I've seen that in the past. The original plan certainly sounds way better than what we got. Without seeing the end product, we'll never know though. I'm personally surprised Kennedy still has her job after some of the big misfires Lucasfilm has made under her watch. It's clear to virtually everyone that there needs to be a change.

I'm convinced she has damning blackmail information on someone or if not a few people at Lucasfilm. There is no other explanation as to why she's been allowed to almost single-handedly ruin the SW franchise.
I don't think she's ruined Star Wars. For the most part what's come out under her has been good, with a couple duds in there. The problem for me is that it all could have been great to awesome, or at least noticeably better, if she had demanded a plan for the entire sequel trilogy (that was her biggest mistake in my mind), and stayed out filmmaker's ways and let them tell their story.

Agree 100% with the bolded and IMO....that has ruined SW's. Well....maybe 'ruined' is too harsh.....it has soured it pretty badly. Massive missed opportunity to step boldly into the future of the franchise and they chickened out and went with rudimentary storytelling and some flashy effects. She's a cancer to the entire franchise and should be treated as such and dismissed. It's baffling that she's still around and has any influence
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 09, 2023, 10:50:46 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yKF40p2.jpg)


Kenobi, Anakin and Ahsoka for me. Only real 'threat' out of the other 6 is yoda but I'd take my chances on that with those three.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on October 09, 2023, 11:09:27 AM
Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda for me
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: BlackInk on November 05, 2023, 10:21:13 AM
Loved the Ahsoka show. As someone who has watched (but doesn't remember in detail) most of the relevant other shows to get the references and characters and sort of the big picture stuff, it was quite satisfying. The show also looked really freakin' good. The cinematography and set design impressed me at several points. The first fight between Ahsoka and Baylan was particularly good, really cool juxtaposing Ahsoka's samurai-style and Baylan's medieval knight-style.

There are probably critiques I could make if I were to look for faults, but my appetite for focusing on the negatives in entertainment has gone down a lot in recent years. For now I'm just happy sitting back and enjoying fun space adventure with a lot of moments that feel rewarding as a long-time fan/follower of the franchise as a whole.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on November 21, 2023, 12:41:31 PM
This seems like a good move.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/star-wars-vet-dave-filoni-lucasfilm-chief-creative-officer-1235669321/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 21, 2023, 12:45:17 PM
This seems like a good move.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/star-wars-vet-dave-filoni-lucasfilm-chief-creative-officer-1235669321/

Yeah.....that's indeed a good move. The only issue they continue to face is that Kathleen Kennedy still appears to have some say. I swear she has to have blackmail material on everyone at Disney. She's a non talent hack who meandered  her way into power somehow.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 21, 2023, 01:22:58 PM
I definitely think if there's a guy who would steer Star Wars in the direction George Lucas wanted it to go, it would be Filoni. Two years ago I would have been over the moon about this decision. Now after seeing season 3 of The Mandalorian (which was pretty mediocre), and Ahsoka (which was better, but still not as good as I hoped), I'm less sure. Hopefully this moves Ms. Kennedy into a purely business role with no say on the creative aspects of Star Wars. That in itself will be a huge improvement. Definitely makes me more optimistic about the future of Star Wars though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on November 21, 2023, 01:31:02 PM
Yeah, I don't know that the recent output from Filoni is terribly reassuring. It's been watchable, but also kind of bad!

Now if they had put the Andor director in charge, we might have something.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 21, 2023, 02:59:42 PM
Yeah, I don't know that the recent output from Filoni is terribly reassuring. It's been watchable, but also kind of bad!

Now if they had put the Andor director in charge, we might have something.

Disagree on the Filoni output assessment. S3 of Mandalorian was a trainwreck due to Kennedy insisting 'Grogu' remain a part of the story so he and Favreau had to navigate that BS....along with having to shoe horn some more PC crap by including Lizzo and Jack Black into the story for no reason. She's the one who insisted they fire Gina Carano for holding true to her position and opinions and just because they differed from Kennedy's she was fired....a position by the way looking back on she was pretty spot on with now that the real full picture of Covid and the hysteria behind it keeps coming to light. That's neither here nor there though....Favreau has largely been the one 'behind' the Mandalorian and whatever that Boba Fett series was....with Filoni there to inject SW's lore/backstory etc etc as needed. You can attribute nearly all the misfires in these shows and movies directly to Kennedy and her sticking her nose where it doesn't belong.

Ahsoka being pretty much all Filoni was spot on and for all intents and purposes a success. Outside of some tame choreography (that still was heads and tails better than anything we saw in the sequel series) and a couple other slow parts.....the show filled the gaps for Rebels fans.....allowed Ahsoka to come to grips with her past and losing Anakin in a pretty beautiful manner....AND introduced the best "villain" we've seen since Darth Maul in Baylan (RIP Ray) and brought to screen one of the cooler characters that was introduced in Rebels and book....Thrawn. It set up the upcoming movie(s) and D+ shows....so, I just don't see how what Filoni has been giving us is anything BUT reassuring.

 Remove Kennedy from the equation and let Filoni and Favreau tell the stories and it'll be fine. Keep allowing her to inject that PC crap that South Park has done a terrific job in roasting her for and you'll keep getting some eye roll moments that are completely out of place and not needed that detract from the story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on November 21, 2023, 03:32:42 PM
Yeah, I don't know that the recent output from Filoni is terribly reassuring. It's been watchable, but also kind of bad!

Now if they had put the Andor director in charge, we might have something.

Disagree on the Filoni output assessment. S3 of Mandalorian was a trainwreck due to Kennedy insisting 'Grogu' remain a part of the story so he and Favreau had to navigate that BS....along with having to shoe horn some more PC crap by including Lizzo and Jack Black into the story for no reason. She's the one who insisted they fire Gina Carano for holding true to her position and opinions and just because they differed from Kennedy's she was fired....a position by the way looking back on she was pretty spot on with now that the real full picture of Covid and the hysteria behind it keeps coming to light. That's neither here nor there though....Favreau has largely been the one 'behind' the Mandalorian and whatever that Boba Fett series was....with Filoni there to inject SW's lore/backstory etc etc as needed. You can attribute nearly all the misfires in these shows and movies directly to Kennedy and her sticking her nose where it doesn't belong.

Ahsoka being pretty much all Filoni was spot on and for all intents and purposes a success. Outside of some tame choreography (that still was heads and tails better than anything we saw in the sequel series) and a couple other slow parts.....the show filled the gaps for Rebels fans.....allowed Ahsoka to come to grips with her past and losing Anakin in a pretty beautiful manner....AND introduced the best "villain" we've seen since Darth Maul in Baylan (RIP Ray) and brought to screen one of the cooler characters that was introduced in Rebels and book....Thrawn. It set up the upcoming movie(s) and D+ shows....so, I just don't see how what Filoni has been giving us is anything BUT reassuring.

 Remove Kennedy from the equation and let Filoni and Favreau tell the stories and it'll be fine. Keep allowing her to inject that PC crap that South Park has done a terrific job in roasting her for and you'll keep getting some eye roll moments that are completely out of place and not needed that detract from the story.

I guess I was thinking Filoni had a bigger role in Mandalorian. I think Ahsoka was fine from a big picture standpoint, but it mainly existed to set that up. Some really poor writing and acting in that one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 21, 2023, 03:49:22 PM
I guess this would be the thread where I announce I'm seeing a panel at Fan Expo SF with none other than Mark Hamill... :RJ:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 21, 2023, 03:50:14 PM
I guess this would be the thread where I announce I'm seeing a panel at Fan Expo SF with none other than Mark Hamill... :RJ:

Will you get to personally meet him? By all accounts he's just a remarkable person.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 21, 2023, 04:00:34 PM
I guess this would be the thread where I announce I'm seeing a panel at Fan Expo SF with none other than Mark Hamill... :RJ:

Will you get to personally meet him? By all accounts he's just a remarkable person.

Nah, it's a large discussion panel where people can line up and ask questions (at least that's how others are, not sure if this will be the same since it's literally the biggest star in the geek community possible).

The prices on photo ops are stupid expensive...like $399 expensive. Autographs are even worse...what I really wanted to do, my kid has an original SW poster signed by Carrie Fisher, and I would've loved to have that signed by Hamill as well. First off I highly doubt she'd part with her most prized possession for even a second much less shipping it across country, and secondly, autographs on larger items like that are $699. I mean holy fuck man.


Also got a panel Saturday night with ALL FOUR MOTHERFUCKING HOBBITS!!!!!!!!! I honestly think I'm more excited about that one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 21, 2023, 05:09:33 PM
I guess this would be the thread where I announce I'm seeing a panel at Fan Expo SF with none other than Mark Hamill... :RJ:

Will you get to personally meet him? By all accounts he's just a remarkable person.

Nah, it's a large discussion panel where people can line up and ask questions (at least that's how others are, not sure if this will be the same since it's literally the biggest star in the geek community possible).

The prices on photo ops are stupid expensive...like $399 expensive. Autographs are even worse...what I really wanted to do, my kid has an original SW poster signed by Carrie Fisher, and I would've loved to have that signed by Hamill as well. First off I highly doubt she'd part with her most prized possession for even a second much less shipping it across country, and secondly, autographs on larger items like that are $699. I mean holy fuck man.


Also got a panel Saturday night with ALL FOUR MOTHERFUCKING HOBBITS!!!!!!!!! I honestly think I'm more excited about that one.


That's pretty freaking cool!!! I hope it's a blast.....if you take pics you gotta post some.


It's insane how much of a business the autograph or 'fan' experience has become. I get it....for a lot of those actors and actresses it's a major way they're able to make money. Not everyone lands role after role after role and gets paid millions of dollars to act. If anything, this writer and actor strike has exposed just how much they're NOT getting paid and how badly they've been exploited.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on November 21, 2023, 05:17:45 PM
Absolutely, I have no problems with what they charge, I just can't afford it lol... I'll definitely get pics, they'll be on FB.



There's one other panel with Katee Sackhoff, Carl Weathers, and Emily Swallow that's high on my radar. I had planned to catch Katee last year but she dropped out last minute. The lineup for this con is absolutely fucking stacked...

https://fanexpohq.com/fanexposanfrancisco/all-guests/ (https://fanexpohq.com/fanexposanfrancisco/all-guests/)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 21, 2023, 05:52:16 PM
Yeah, I don't know that the recent output from Filoni is terribly reassuring. It's been watchable, but also kind of bad!

Now if they had put the Andor director in charge, we might have something.

Disagree on the Filoni output assessment. S3 of Mandalorian was a trainwreck due to Kennedy insisting 'Grogu' remain a part of the story so he and Favreau had to navigate that BS....along with having to shoe horn some more PC crap by including Lizzo and Jack Black into the story for no reason. She's the one who insisted they fire Gina Carano for holding true to her position and opinions and just because they differed from Kennedy's she was fired....a position by the way looking back on she was pretty spot on with now that the real full picture of Covid and the hysteria behind it keeps coming to light. That's neither here nor there though....Favreau has largely been the one 'behind' the Mandalorian and whatever that Boba Fett series was....with Filoni there to inject SW's lore/backstory etc etc as needed. You can attribute nearly all the misfires in these shows and movies directly to Kennedy and her sticking her nose where it doesn't belong.

Ahsoka being pretty much all Filoni was spot on and for all intents and purposes a success. Outside of some tame choreography (that still was heads and tails better than anything we saw in the sequel series) and a couple other slow parts.....the show filled the gaps for Rebels fans.....allowed Ahsoka to come to grips with her past and losing Anakin in a pretty beautiful manner....AND introduced the best "villain" we've seen since Darth Maul in Baylan (RIP Ray) and brought to screen one of the cooler characters that was introduced in Rebels and book....Thrawn. It set up the upcoming movie(s) and D+ shows....so, I just don't see how what Filoni has been giving us is anything BUT reassuring.

 Remove Kennedy from the equation and let Filoni and Favreau tell the stories and it'll be fine. Keep allowing her to inject that PC crap that South Park has done a terrific job in roasting her for and you'll keep getting some eye roll moments that are completely out of place and not needed that detract from the story.
I don't think Kennedy has made a good contribution to Star Wars since... maybe ever? I hope you're right about her and Favreau being behind S3 and TBOBF's crappiest parts. I have faith in Filoni.. hopefully he lets Favreau do his thing in Mando S4. But I also hope Filoni doesn't inject too much deep SW lore into everything. I'd love to see some standalone Syar Wars movies or shows that focus on fun sci-fi action without worrying about cannon or tie ins to future stories.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 21, 2023, 06:03:11 PM
I don't think Kennedy has made a good contribution to Star Wars since... maybe ever? I hope you're right about her and Favreau being behind S3 and TBOBF's crappiest parts. I have faith in Filoni.. hopefully he lets Favreau do his thing in Mando S4. But I also hope Filoni doesn't inject too much deep SW lore into everything. I'd love to see some standalone Syar Wars movies or shows that focus on fun sci-fi action without worrying about cannon or tie ins to future stories.

The info. I base this opinion off of is probably the same stuff you could look up and watch on Youtube or read online. There's just SO many reports and rumors and stories about her and how her ego and what not has driven these decisions for SW's....not for story but for the whole PC and social activism angle.....where there's smoke there's fire so to speak. Is it all true? Who knows....but when you look at the sum of what Favreau and Filoni have produced when seemingly left to their own devices....you can almost pinpoint where it's just not their vision or idea to do some of that stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on November 22, 2023, 05:38:05 AM
There has clearly been lack of creative vision in the recent movies. That comes from the top. There were several conflicts with potential directors with changes and cancelled projects. That also comes form the top. So I think it's fair to say she is a big part of the problem, if not almost all of the problem. She's still at the top though, so her influence will still be significant. I frankly don't understand how she still has a job, but I guess Lucasfilm has still been successful enough to keep her around.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 22, 2023, 08:28:05 AM
There has clearly been lack of creative vision in the recent movies. That comes from the top. There were several conflicts with potential directors with changes and cancelled projects. That also comes form the top. So I think it's fair to say she is a big part of the problem, if not almost all of the problem. She's still at the top though, so her influence will still be significant. I frankly don't understand how she still has a job, but I guess Lucasfilm has still been successful enough to keep her around.

Yeah, she single handedly put the kabosh on Colin Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates script for Ep. 9....one that is out there for all to see now. It was infinitely better than what we got.....we were robbed of a pretty cool story. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 22, 2023, 09:20:07 AM
I definitely think if there's a guy who would steer Star Wars in the direction George Lucas wanted it to go, it would be Filoni.
I don't care about the direction Lucas wanted it to go.  IMO, he's been bad for Star Wars since he decided to screw with the theatrical versions, and make the prequel trilogy.

But I think Filoni will likely do a good job.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on November 22, 2023, 09:25:24 AM
KK obviously has her issues, but she had nothing to do with prequel trilogy - which contains the two of the worst SW films.  I'd gladly sit though the new trilogy over trying to watch Attack of the Clones ever again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 22, 2023, 09:40:07 AM
KK obviously has her issues, but she had nothing to do with prequel trilogy - which contains the two of the worst SW films.  I'd gladly sit though the new trilogy over trying to watch Attack of the Clones ever again.
Personally, I would vote "neither" on those two outcomes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 22, 2023, 09:53:06 AM
KK obviously has her issues, but she had nothing to do with prequel trilogy - which contains the two of the worst SW films.  I'd gladly sit though the new trilogy over trying to watch Attack of the Clones ever again.

Yeah....they're pretty tough to get through. ROTS is watchable and pretty good....but the other two are cringingly bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on November 22, 2023, 10:40:07 AM
All I know is, the original trilogy was SACRED GROUND for me.  It was my child hood.   And I bought into the first three; not really my thing, but enough there to meet the things I was always looking for in Star Wars.  Escapism, a sense of fun, a sense of Saturday morning danger, something you could talk about with someone 10 years old or 80 years old and find something to discuss.   It was, in every sense of the thought, the kind of movie where a legend and Oscar winner (Alec Guiness) could share a stage with a robot (R2), a 19-year-old Hollywood scioness (Fisher), and a veritable unknown (Hamill) and it was still credible.   

With a few exceptions, they have totally lost me in the new world of Star Wars.  I have ZERO interest in bringing the real world into the universe of Star Wars; we've got enough of that, this is a chance to escape.  Where the issues of the day are badly developed trade issues, or whatever, and that's okay because it's not about that anyway.

The few exceptions seem to be the things that Filoni and Favreau are responsible for, though I don't (any longer) pay close enough attention to know if that was true.

(And go back; in real time I said that the Gina Carrano thing was bullshit, and while yes, they have the right to fire whoever they want, when the decision is knee-jerk and based on perception - she didn't say what they said she said - it rarely if ever ends well, and certainly lends credo to the idea that the captain of the ship isn't working in the best interest of said ship.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: BlackInk on December 01, 2023, 07:19:08 AM
Yeah, she single handedly put the kabosh on Colin Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates script for Ep. 9....one that is out there for all to see now. It was infinitely better than what we got.....we were robbed of a pretty cool story.

Honestly I don't know if that would have been better. My takaway from reading the Trevorrow script was that Episode 9 is a terrible movie in all possible worlds.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lightningbolt on December 06, 2023, 08:22:51 AM
I haven't sifted through the entire thread, but I just thought I'd throw my 2 cent in.  These aren't likely unique thoughts. 

I'm a big fan of the first two movies, New Hope and Empire Strikes Back.  Empire was immediately my favorite when I watched the movies for the first time in middle school and they've generally held up on viewings as an adult.  I don't enjoy Return of the Jedi as much, but the scenes with the Emperor/in the Throne Room are awesome.

When Phantom Menace came out, I was in middle school and thoroughly enjoyed it in the theater.  I have never watched it in full again for fear that it would now be terrible as an adult - I have watched portions of it and found those boring/ridiculous.  I thought Attack of the Clones was dreadful as a high schooler.  I actually fell asleep watching it in the theater for a few minutes from boredom.  Revenge of the Sith was "meh", boring and a little too A+B=C (knowing generally how it was going to end up - Jedi getting their ass kicked and Anakin becoming DV - didn't help). 

The first movie in the sequel trilogy was ok and a thought it was a "fun" reset for the whole franchise, even if it was a rip off of a New Hope.  Last Jedi was so bad that I decided Star Wars is no longer worth my time and that I'll just enjoy the original trilogy from now on without bothering anymore with the franchise.  I appreciate they tried something different, but it didn't work for me.  Although, I did enjoy idea of the good guys being low on fuel.  Fortunately, I didn't specifically pay to see that as I watched it while on a flight. 

To be fair, I'd probably enjoy the entire franchise if I remained an 8th grader forever.  I know a lot of kids who enjoy it. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lightningbolt on December 06, 2023, 08:27:48 AM
Yeah, she single handedly put the kabosh on Colin Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates script for Ep. 9....one that is out there for all to see now. It was infinitely better than what we got.....we were robbed of a pretty cool story.

Honestly I don't know if that would have been better. My takaway from reading the Trevorrow script was that Episode 9 is a terrible movie in all possible worlds.

I agree, it sounds like another mess to me. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 06, 2023, 08:35:03 AM
Yeah, she single handedly put the kabosh on Colin Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates script for Ep. 9....one that is out there for all to see now. It was infinitely better than what we got.....we were robbed of a pretty cool story.

Honestly I don't know if that would have been better. My takaway from reading the Trevorrow script was that Episode 9 is a terrible movie in all possible worlds.

I agree, it sounds like another mess to me.

Maybe....but I still think it'd have been better than what we got.....which was huge pile of uninspired, boring.....poo.


It all boils down to Disney dropping the ball and failing to map out a cohesive trilogy. Zero excuses for an entity with that amount of resources at their fingertips to screw the pooch as badly as they did with that trilogy. Such a waste.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 06, 2023, 09:18:57 AM
It all boils down to Disney dropping the ball and failing to map out a cohesive trilogy. Zero excuses for an entity with that amount of resources at their fingertips to screw the pooch as badly as they did with that trilogy. Such a waste.
Bingo.


I have decided that the only Star Wars that exists for me is the original trilogy, Rogue One, and the TV shows that have already come out.  That's it.  I am much happier now lol.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lightningbolt on December 06, 2023, 09:24:00 AM
It all boils down to Disney dropping the ball and failing to map out a cohesive trilogy. Zero excuses for an entity with that amount of resources at their fingertips to screw the pooch as badly as they did with that trilogy. Such a waste.
Bingo.


I have decided that the only Star Wars that exists for me is the original trilogy, Rogue One, and the TV shows that have already come out.  That's it.  I am much happier now lol.

I forgot to include Rogue One in my post.  I genuinely enjoyed that movie.  It was fun and I liked the fact that we got to enjoy the Star Wars universe from a non Jedi/Sith perspective.

I've also enjoyed the two Star Wars rides at Disneyland Paris.  Wish I could say the same about the bulk of the Disney movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 06, 2023, 10:07:44 AM
It all boils down to Disney dropping the ball and failing to map out a cohesive trilogy. Zero excuses for an entity with that amount of resources at their fingertips to screw the pooch as badly as they did with that trilogy. Such a waste.
Bingo.


I have decided that the only Star Wars that exists for me is the original trilogy, Rogue One, and the TV shows that have already come out.  That's it.  I am much happier now lol.

I've enjoyed 'parts' of the D+ shows. Obviously the first season of Mandalorian was pretty cool....and much of the second. But, by the third season it started to suffer from higher ups not letting a story be told....prime example is them forcing Grogu back into a story that he wasn't supposed to be in. The Kenobi show had cool and interesting moments....but a lot of it was just silliness.....so the cool stuff was muted. The Boba Fett show was cringe worthy.....just....ehh....and, I dug the Ahsoka show for what it was, S5 of Rebels.

Bad Batch is neat....not great but I'll take it. It's been a cool little show. As an overall entity I enjoyed TCW's as well but it's a chore to absorb. Dug the heck out of Rebels.

I 'wish' I'd allow myself not to care as much or get into the weeds on it all....but I just 'want' to like it all so badly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 06, 2023, 12:25:05 PM
I just 'want' to like it all so badly.
Why?  That way lies heartache.

I love the MCU, but several of their releases are pretty awful, and I won't rewatch them.  And that's OK, I'm not losing any sleep over it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 06, 2023, 12:47:16 PM
I personally find something to love in all things Star Wars. Some is obviously much better than others, but I have no plans to revisit some of it. The animated stuff in particular. But now that I'm starting to watch through everything with my oldest son I'm enjoying watching stuff with fresh eyes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lightningbolt on December 06, 2023, 02:03:15 PM
I personally find something to love in all things Star Wars. Some is obviously much better than others, but I have no plans to revisit some of it. The animated stuff in particular. But now that I'm starting to watch through everything with my oldest son I'm enjoying watching stuff with fresh eyes.

I look forward introducing it to my kids one day.  It'll be fun to see their reaction and perhaps it will make some of the stuff I don't currently like enjoyable on some level.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on December 06, 2023, 02:11:54 PM
I personally find something to love in all things Star Wars. Some is obviously much better than others, but I have no plans to revisit some of it. The animated stuff in particular. But now that I'm starting to watch through everything with my oldest son I'm enjoying watching stuff with fresh eyes.

I look forward introducing it to my kids one day.  It'll be fun to see their reaction and perhaps it will make some of the stuff I don't currently like enjoyable on some level.

My daughter and I LOVED to watch the original trilogy.  We both got to be kids for a couple hours.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on December 06, 2023, 04:52:06 PM
I was surprised to find that my son like Rise of Skywalker the best of the sequel trilogy
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 06, 2023, 06:17:06 PM
I was surprised to find that my son like Rise of Skywalker the best of the sequel trilogy

Especially when no Skywalker rose.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on December 06, 2023, 10:52:09 PM
I think one of the issues I have with the Star Wars movie saga is that it all takes place in the span of three generations (really just two, Anakin and Luke Skywalker's lifetimes). So in the space of 20 years or so you have the Jedi going from stewards of the galaxy to an obscure legend by A New Hope. All the while, you have a Galactic Empire that springs up and somehow controls not just a planet or solar system but [some large swath] of a Galaxy almost overnight? And it lasts about another 20 years before Luke topples it for the first time, and then you have a bunch of people for some reason who are really committed to bringing it back by the time of the sequel movies and spin off shows. There isn't any discernible ideology behind the Empire other than it is run by someone committed to "the dark side" (but the rank and file officers think Vader's "sad devotion to that ancient religion" is a weakness). I think different movies and shows stress different sides of "power," "order," maybe even commerce I guess. But I'm not sure what anyone gets out of it individually (think the guy in Andor who is so devoted to tracking down Andor for killing that dude).

 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 04, 2024, 01:03:44 PM
So yeah....I guess Disney is quadrupling down on the feminine empowerment movement based off the news yesterday of who's going to be directing the next batch of Rey movies. Without turning this into some P/R argument....I just want a good Star Wars movie/trilogy.....etc etc. But this move all but guarantees that I'm not going to get it. I suppose they last effort to catapult Rey into the echelon of female torch bearers didn't work because it was a male behind the scenes,. had nothing to do with that it just wasn't a compelling character....if I were Daisey Ridley I'd be pissed because she's once again going to be hamstrung and a story isn't going to be told due to the franchise being hijacked by activists....Kennedy being the top one. I hope there will be an attempt at some sort of story ....but based off this womans past AND recent remarks this has all the makings of yet another lecture for me to find out in some different ways how big a jerk, asshole, oppressor, degenerate and sexist pig I am since I'm a white male.  Will most likely be the first SW movie I don't go see on release date unless something drastic changes.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 04, 2024, 01:10:16 PM
The only past I know is that she directed some episodes of the Ms. Marvel show, which was awesome.

I'm glad they are bringing in new blood to direct, and I don't care if it's a woman.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 04, 2024, 01:26:32 PM
The only past I know is that she directed some episodes of the Ms. Marvel show, which was awesome.

I'm glad they are bringing in new blood to direct, and I don't care if it's a woman.

It's not the woman part that concerns me.....it's her past and recent comments that are a little to 'activismy' for me. I get the impression that she's very 'girl power' which is fine but you still have to tell a good story. Disney's recent history with that isn't very good and it's just a huge eye roll from me that instead of being hyped about where they were going to take Rey's story and how they were going to salvage it....it's now going to take a back seat to this womans personal agenda.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 04, 2024, 02:33:09 PM
The only past I know is that she directed some episodes of the Ms. Marvel show, which was awesome.

I'm glad they are bringing in new blood to direct, and I don't care if it's a woman.

It's not the woman part that concerns me.....it's her past and recent comments that are a little to 'activismy' for me. I get the impression that she's very 'girl power' which is fine but you still have to tell a good story. Disney's recent history with that isn't very good and it's just a huge eye roll from me that instead of being hyped about where they were going to take Rey's story and how they were going to salvage it....it's now going to take a back seat to this womans personal agenda.
I don't think it will take a "back seat".

A couple of things:

1) I don't care about Rey, and it won't matter that much who directs it, because it's a crappy idea IMO
2) Anything is better than JJ Abrams directing again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 04, 2024, 02:43:33 PM
The only past I know is that she directed some episodes of the Ms. Marvel show, which was awesome.

I'm glad they are bringing in new blood to direct, and I don't care if it's a woman.

It's not the woman part that concerns me.....it's her past and recent comments that are a little to 'activismy' for me. I get the impression that she's very 'girl power' which is fine but you still have to tell a good story. Disney's recent history with that isn't very good and it's just a huge eye roll from me that instead of being hyped about where they were going to take Rey's story and how they were going to salvage it....it's now going to take a back seat to this womans personal agenda.
I don't think it will take a "back seat".

A couple of things:

1) I don't care about Rey, and it won't matter that much who directs it, because it's a crappy idea IMO
2) Anything is better than JJ Abrams directing again.

Or Rian Johnson
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 04, 2024, 03:57:14 PM
The only past I know is that she directed some episodes of the Ms. Marvel show, which was awesome.

I'm glad they are bringing in new blood to direct, and I don't care if it's a woman.

It's not the woman part that concerns me.....it's her past and recent comments that are a little to 'activismy' for me. I get the impression that she's very 'girl power' which is fine but you still have to tell a good story. Disney's recent history with that isn't very good and it's just a huge eye roll from me that instead of being hyped about where they were going to take Rey's story and how they were going to salvage it....it's now going to take a back seat to this womans personal agenda.
I don't think it will take a "back seat".

A couple of things:

1) I don't care about Rey, and it won't matter that much who directs it, because it's a crappy idea IMO
2) Anything is better than JJ Abrams directing again.

Or Rian Johnson

These are tough points to argue
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 04, 2024, 07:08:25 PM
I'll wait to draw any conclusions until I've seen the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 05, 2024, 07:00:28 AM
The only past I know is that she directed some episodes of the Ms. Marvel show, which was awesome.

I'm glad they are bringing in new blood to direct, and I don't care if it's a woman.

It's not the woman part that concerns me.....it's her past and recent comments that are a little to 'activismy' for me. I get the impression that she's very 'girl power' which is fine but you still have to tell a good story. Disney's recent history with that isn't very good and it's just a huge eye roll from me that instead of being hyped about where they were going to take Rey's story and how they were going to salvage it....it's now going to take a back seat to this womans personal agenda.
I don't think it will take a "back seat".

A couple of things:

1) I don't care about Rey, and it won't matter that much who directs it, because it's a crappy idea IMO
2) Anything is better than JJ Abrams directing again.

Or Rian Johnson
Nah, his film was easily the best of that misbegotten trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: soupytwist on January 05, 2024, 07:22:25 AM
The only past I know is that she directed some episodes of the Ms. Marvel show, which was awesome.

I'm glad they are bringing in new blood to direct, and I don't care if it's a woman.

It's not the woman part that concerns me.....it's her past and recent comments that are a little to 'activismy' for me. I get the impression that she's very 'girl power' which is fine but you still have to tell a good story. Disney's recent history with that isn't very good and it's just a huge eye roll from me that instead of being hyped about where they were going to take Rey's story and how they were going to salvage it....it's now going to take a back seat to this womans personal agenda.
I don't think it will take a "back seat".

A couple of things:

1) I don't care about Rey, and it won't matter that much who directs it, because it's a crappy idea IMO
2) Anything is better than JJ Abrams directing again.

Or Rian Johnson
Nah, his film was easily the best of that misbegotten trilogy.

I prefer The Force Awakens, but Last Jedi is still a decent film - much better than the prequels.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 05, 2024, 07:44:44 AM
The only past I know is that she directed some episodes of the Ms. Marvel show, which was awesome.

I'm glad they are bringing in new blood to direct, and I don't care if it's a woman.

It's not the woman part that concerns me.....it's her past and recent comments that are a little to 'activismy' for me. I get the impression that she's very 'girl power' which is fine but you still have to tell a good story. Disney's recent history with that isn't very good and it's just a huge eye roll from me that instead of being hyped about where they were going to take Rey's story and how they were going to salvage it....it's now going to take a back seat to this womans personal agenda.
I don't think it will take a "back seat".

A couple of things:

1) I don't care about Rey, and it won't matter that much who directs it, because it's a crappy idea IMO
2) Anything is better than JJ Abrams directing again.

Or Rian Johnson
Nah, his film was easily the best of that misbegotten trilogy.

Even if this were true, it's a pretty low bar.

But it's still not true  :).  jingle.son and I were just debating this last week... he too mistakenly thinks this is the best of the 3.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 05, 2024, 07:54:00 AM
THE MISTAKE IS YOURS
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 05, 2024, 08:13:38 AM
THE MISTAKE IS YOURS

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/bPmmrc9AoaFiyiARa3vf9l6CJAeqaKjUDVxMf-iHykEIkEMkBsSxheh0tP_YME1H2lECOjALaj9kKXBQJQjHJQd1LPAlJ1NQb0APyNF6xRRpBWE_9-GZtB15ah3YoMfT_nQ2mk70mlco_CgImIIYPsYRavKc_aXMqJkdUQ)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 05, 2024, 09:02:09 AM
Not anger, because I don't give much of a shit about that entire trilogy.

But Johnson at least tried to make an interesting film, that wasn't a regurgitation of Star Wars that had come before, and largely succeeded.  A lot of people say he did a bad job just because they have a Luke Skywalker hangup.  Not saying that about you, of course.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 05, 2024, 09:47:11 AM
Not anger, because I don't give much of a shit about that entire trilogy.

But Johnson at least tried to make an interesting film, that wasn't a regurgitation of Star Wars that had come before, and largely succeeded.  A lot of people say he did a bad job just because they have a Luke Skywalker hangup.  Not saying that about you, of course.

I thought his film was the best of the three and had zero issues with the way he handled Luke. It was the best overall 'movie' when considering what elements make a successful movie. It just suffered from what the entire trilogy suffered from.....no grand over arching vision to tie into.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on January 05, 2024, 09:55:49 AM
Not that it should matter, because it doesn't, but the new Rey movie is being written by a dude and directed by a woman. An assumption is being made that the dude is going to be writing from a 'men suck' angle. Seems a stretch.

Also, the Rian Johnson movie was easily the best of the latest trilogy. By far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on January 05, 2024, 09:56:36 AM
Not anger, because I don't give much of a shit about that entire trilogy.

But Johnson at least tried to make an interesting film, that wasn't a regurgitation of Star Wars that had come before, and largely succeeded.  A lot of people say he did a bad job just because they have a Luke Skywalker hangup.  Not saying that about you, of course.

I thought his film was the best of the three and had zero issues with the way he handled Luke. It was the best overall 'movie' when considering what elements make a successful movie. It just suffered from what the entire trilogy suffered from.....no grand over arching vision to tie into.

Well, that and a bad script. I don't really like any of the sequel movies as a full movie, though I'd say Force Awakens probably has the most cohesive, unified script, while whatever the second one's called has the best individual moments. But a number of amazing individual moments do not make a great movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: XJDenton on January 05, 2024, 08:00:31 PM
Personally I found TLJ the most interesting Star Wars film since Empire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on January 05, 2024, 09:36:08 PM
But Johnson at least tried to make an interesting film, that wasn't a regurgitation of Star Wars that had come before, and largely succeeded. 

This, except for that part about "largely succeeded."

I don't really like any of the sequel movies as a full movie, though I'd say Force Awakens probably has the most cohesive, unified script, while whatever the second one's called has the best individual moments. But a number of amazing individual moments do not make a great movie.

I wondered if I felt the same way, then realized I can think of exactly 3 cool moments from the whole film. Which is 3 more than I can recall from Ep9.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on January 06, 2024, 01:12:50 PM
Not anger, because I don't give much of a shit about that entire trilogy.

But Johnson at least tried to make an interesting film, that wasn't a regurgitation of Star Wars that had come before, and largely succeeded.  A lot of people say he did a bad job just because they have a Luke Skywalker hangup.  Not saying that about you, of course.

I thought his film was the best of the three and had zero issues with the way he handled Luke. It was the best overall 'movie' when considering what elements make a successful movie. It just suffered from what the entire trilogy suffered from.....no grand over arching vision to tie into.

For me, I'm with Gary.  I LIKED the Johnson movie, but not as part 8 of a 9 part story.  It felt like too much of a left turn as a story segment.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Polarbear on January 06, 2024, 01:26:18 PM
Personally I found TLJ the most interesting Star Wars film since Empire.

I haven't watched the sequels in ages, but I'd have to agree with you. I truly get why people hate it though. The Rise of Skywalker by comparison felt like a clumsy and desperate attempt at a course correction. It felt like two movies worth of ideas, smashed into a one Two- hour movie.

Here is another unpopular opinion: If Rian Johnson would have been allowed to do the entire trilogy, it could have been interesting and better than what we got.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 06, 2024, 01:30:09 PM
I think you could have taken TFA or TLJ and made a good trilogy around either of what those movies started. The problem is that they don't go together well. And the third movie was a mess, though oddly my 14 year old son liked ROS best.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on January 06, 2024, 04:57:32 PM
I've still never seen episodes 8 and 9 (or 2), and I can't see any reason why I would need to from everything I've heard about them. Can't seem to find anybody who really enjoyed them. I actually liked episode 7 well enough for what it was. For me Star Wars is still mainly about the original trilogy and everything else is just kind of whatever.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lonestar on January 06, 2024, 05:31:05 PM
I enjoyed all three for at the base what they are, simple star wars fun. I think 9 was my favorite of the three. None were amazing, they were just fun.


All shadowed in comparison to Rogue One,now that was amazing, easily the best Disney era movie, and only topped by a few Mando episodes and the whole of Andor.



I'll hold opinion on the new ones until I actually see them instead of making presumptions because of who the director is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on January 06, 2024, 11:00:47 PM
Rogue One was good, though a bit bloated. I liked Solo a good bit too. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 07, 2024, 07:10:52 AM
I've still never seen episodes 8 and 9 (or 2), and I can't see any reason why I would need to from everything I've heard about them. Can't seem to find anybody who really enjoyed them. I actually liked episode 7 well enough for what it was. For me Star Wars is still mainly about the original trilogy and everything else is just kind of whatever.
Tons of people enjoyed them. I don't need all Star Wars content to be on the level of Empire Strikes Back in order to enjoy it. I have never watched anything Star Wars that I didn't enjoy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 07, 2024, 09:25:31 AM
making presumptions because of who the director is.

I know I'm rushing to judgement on her and I hope I'm wrong. I really do. It just left a sour taste in my mouth when reading her past and present comments and then factoring in Kathleen Kennedy's stellar track record here recently with her obvious agenda. I find it difficult to believe that some sort of political/social cause won't heavily permeate the movie but again....I hope I'm wrong and they just make a good SW movie.


Rogue One was good

It was good because they had an outline so to speak. There wasn't a lot of room to add a bunch of unnecessary side stories and crap that didn't matter. It was a 'simple' story to tell and they did a great job at decorating the boundaries of it while just sticking to a team of rebels stole some plans. Everyone knew how the story ended before it began and so it didn't try to overdo it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on January 07, 2024, 03:59:43 PM
making presumptions because of who the director is.

I know I'm rushing to judgement on her and I hope I'm wrong. I really do. It just left a sour taste in my mouth when reading her past and present comments and then factoring in Kathleen Kennedy's stellar track record here recently with her obvious agenda. I find it difficult to believe that some sort of political/social cause won't heavily permeate the movie but again....I hope I'm wrong and they just make a good SW movie.


Rogue One was good

It was good because they had an outline so to speak. There wasn't a lot of room to add a bunch of unnecessary side stories and crap that didn't matter. It was a 'simple' story to tell and they did a great job at decorating the boundaries of it while just sticking to a team of rebels stole some plans. Everyone knew how the story ended before it began and so it didn't try to overdo it.

Even that simple story in Rogue One was a little bit overly complex and hard to follow for me. I enjoyed the movie, but large chunks of it are a blur and it probably could have been half an hour shorter.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jammindude on January 08, 2024, 07:23:21 AM
I will carry the torch for Solo as well. Great film. Didn’t get the love it deserved.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 08, 2024, 07:32:48 AM
I will carry the torch for Solo as well. Great film. Didn’t get the love it deserved.
Agreed. I thought it was good and deserved the planned follow ups.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 08, 2024, 10:55:17 AM
I will carry the torch for Solo as well. Great film. Didn’t get the love it deserved.
I'm glad it found you.  But it didn't do anything for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2024, 11:03:43 AM
making presumptions because of who the director is.

I know I'm rushing to judgement on her and I hope I'm wrong. I really do. It just left a sour taste in my mouth when reading her past and present comments and then factoring in Kathleen Kennedy's stellar track record here recently with her obvious agenda. I find it difficult to believe that some sort of political/social cause won't heavily permeate the movie but again....I hope I'm wrong and they just make a good SW movie.


Rogue One was good

It was good because they had an outline so to speak. There wasn't a lot of room to add a bunch of unnecessary side stories and crap that didn't matter. It was a 'simple' story to tell and they did a great job at decorating the boundaries of it while just sticking to a team of rebels stole some plans. Everyone knew how the story ended before it began and so it didn't try to overdo it.

I agree with all of this. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on January 08, 2024, 11:18:41 AM
I thought both Rogue One and Solo were pretty good for what they were.  They both had dots to connect.  Rogue One obviously had to end the way it did, but how they got there was pretty interesting I thought.  With Solo, we knew we'd get the backstory on how Solo and Chewy met, how Lando lost the Millenium Falcon to Solo in a card game or whatever that was, etc., but they still came up with a story that went beyond that and was reasonably interesting.  I found both movies quite entertaining.  Hey, it's Star Wars.  If you try to analyze it too much, it falls apart.  Just enjoy the ride.  I'm not saying that a film shouldn't be expected to survive even cursory scrutiny, but both films did exactly what they were meant to do: tell the story and fill in some details of stuff we already knew about.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 08, 2024, 01:22:59 PM
I thought both Rogue One and Solo were pretty good for what they were.  They both had dots to connect.  Rogue One obviously had to end the way it did, but how they got there was pretty interesting I thought.  With Solo, we knew we'd get the backstory on how Solo and Chewy met, how Lando lost the Millenium Falcon to Solo in a card game or whatever that was, etc., but they still came up with a story that went beyond that and was reasonably interesting.  I found both movies quite entertaining.  Hey, it's Star Wars.  If you try to analyze it too much, it falls apart.  Just enjoy the ride.  I'm not saying that a film shouldn't be expected to survive even cursory scrutiny, but both films did exactly what they were meant to do: tell the story and fill in some details of stuff we already knew about.
Part of my problem (and it's a ME problem) with both films (although I still like Rogue One) is that I dislike prequels in general.  We don't need all of the details filled in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on January 08, 2024, 01:59:52 PM
Prequels are one of my least liked types of movies.  They do feel just a bit lazy, since you're already given the characters and the basic story parameters.  Given that, I'm curious to see what they can do with it.  And of course there's always the people who will eat up anything Star Wars (or whatever the franchise in question is) and just want to see more stories.  These movies are for them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 08, 2024, 02:27:12 PM
Prequels are one of my least liked types of movies.  They do feel just a bit lazy, since you're already given the characters and the basic story parameters.  Given that, I'm curious to see what they can do with it.  And of course there's always the people who will eat up anything Star Wars (or whatever the franchise in question is) and just want to see more stories.  These movies are for them.
Yep yep
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on January 08, 2024, 04:00:16 PM
Also a lot of stories play better with a bit of mystery surrounding them, and prior events that are somewhat hazily described leaves room for some imagination and makes it easier to suspend disbelief. Once "Anakin Skywalker was a good man who was seduced by the dark side" gets fleshed out it becomes less interesting and even maybe less believable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 08, 2024, 05:53:36 PM
Also a lot of stories play better with a bit of mystery surrounding them, and prior events that are somewhat hazily described leaves room for some imagination and makes it easier to suspend disbelief. Once "Anakin Skywalker was a good man who was seduced by the dark side" gets fleshed out it becomes less interesting and even maybe less believable.

I get the sentiment on Anakin but what they added to that character in TCW's series did nothing but strengthen it and make it better. Same for Kenobi....TCW's added so much to those two characters and did it really well.

Prequels are tricky. I agree that some things are better left unsaid and for our minds to fill in the gaps. While I enjoyed the 'Solo' movie and agree that it was good....I don't think it should have ever been made. Didn't need any of that information on how he got his name...the broken hearted love story....Lando losing the Falcon to him.....or how he met Chewy. That stuff was an example of just didn't need to know all the detail to it outside of what was implied....our fan minds can fill that gap in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on January 08, 2024, 07:49:00 PM
Also a lot of stories play better with a bit of mystery surrounding them, and prior events that are somewhat hazily described leaves room for some imagination and makes it easier to suspend disbelief. Once "Anakin Skywalker was a good man who was seduced by the dark side" gets fleshed out it becomes less interesting and even maybe less believable.

I get the sentiment on Anakin but what they added to that character in TCW's series did nothing but strengthen it and make it better. Same for Kenobi....TCW's added so much to those two characters and did it really well.

Prequels are tricky. I agree that some things are better left unsaid and for our minds to fill in the gaps. While I enjoyed the 'Solo' movie and agree that it was good....I don't think it should have ever been made. Didn't need any of that information on how he got his name...the broken hearted love story....Lando losing the Falcon to him.....or how he met Chewy. That stuff was an example of just didn't need to know all the detail to it outside of what was implied....our fan minds can fill that gap in.

I didn't mind most of that backstory, but I thought the Kessel Run thing was really forced.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 08, 2024, 10:57:37 PM
Also a lot of stories play better with a bit of mystery surrounding them, and prior events that are somewhat hazily described leaves room for some imagination and makes it easier to suspend disbelief. Once "Anakin Skywalker was a good man who was seduced by the dark side" gets fleshed out it becomes less interesting and even maybe less believable.

I get the sentiment on Anakin but what they added to that character in TCW's series did nothing but strengthen it and make it better. Same for Kenobi....TCW's added so much to those two characters and did it really well.

Prequels are tricky. I agree that some things are better left unsaid and for our minds to fill in the gaps. While I enjoyed the 'Solo' movie and agree that it was good....I don't think it should have ever been made. Didn't need any of that information on how he got his name...the broken hearted love story....Lando losing the Falcon to him.....or how he met Chewy. That stuff was an example of just didn't need to know all the detail to it outside of what was implied....our fan minds can fill that gap in.

I didn't mind most of that backstory, but I thought the Kessel Run thing was really forced.

Agreed. Forced and honestly not all that well done….meaning…..that was a pretty lame explanation

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on January 09, 2024, 11:43:33 AM
https://www.starwars.com/news/the-mandalorian-and-grogu

Quote
The Mandalorian and Grogu are embarking on a new adventure — to movie theaters.

Directed by Jon Favreau, and produced by Favreau, Kathleen Kennedy, and Dave Filoni, The Mandalorian & Grogu will go into production in 2024.

“I have loved telling stories set in the rich world that George Lucas created,” said Favreau. “The prospect of bringing the Mandalorian and his apprentice Grogu to the big screen is extremely exciting.”

"Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni have ushered into Star Wars two new and beloved characters, and this new story is a perfect fit for the big screen," added Kathleen Kennedy, president of Lucasfilm.

The Mandalorian & Grogu will lead Lucasfilm's ongoing feature-development slate, including films helmed by Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy, James Mangold, and Dave Filoni, who is also currently developing Ahsoka Season 2, among those in the works.

This is the Way.


Very exciting news!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Cool Chris on January 09, 2024, 11:47:36 AM
Hope it's a prequel!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on January 09, 2024, 12:07:39 PM
Hope it's a prequel!!!

A prequel to....what? The Force Awakens? It sounds like it'll be a continuation of season three, but I could be wrong. I feel like we've gotten enough of Din's and Grogu's backstories in the show already, unless they want to sprinkle the film with more flashbacks to their respective histories.

It sounds like this film might be a set-up for whatever might happen in Filoni's film as a follow-up to Ahsoka, perhaps creating a new trilogy set between ROTJ and TFA, in the "Mando-verse" of characters.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Adami on January 09, 2024, 12:10:19 PM
Hope it's a prequel!!!

We HAVE to learn how Grogu got his adorable robe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 09, 2024, 12:12:07 PM
Hope it's a prequel!!!
God dammit

BTW, The Mandalorian & Grogu is a terrible title.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on January 09, 2024, 12:15:34 PM
Hope it's a prequel!!!
God dammit

BTW, The Mandalorian & Grogu is a terrible title.

I'm sure it'll change before then, or they'll just tack on "A Star Wars Story" at the end like with Rogue One and Solo.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 09, 2024, 12:40:57 PM
Hope it's a prequel!!!
God dammit

BTW, The Mandalorian & Grogu is a terrible title.

I'm sure it'll change before then, or they'll just tack on "A Star Wars Story" at the end like with Rogue One and Solo.

-Marc.
Not an improvement.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on January 09, 2024, 12:43:56 PM
BTW, The Mandalorian & Grogu is a terrible title.

Agreed.  The Mandalorian & The Child would be cool, or maybe something wacky like The Adventures of Din and Grogu, but it feels weird that one is a title/descriptor and the other is a name.  But apparently most people still consider Din Djarin The Mandalorian even if there are lots of them now, and while I've never warmed to Grogu as a name, it is his name and it's better than "Baby Yoda" which some people still call him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: jingle.boy on January 09, 2024, 02:27:05 PM
Hope it's a prequel!!!

A prequel to....what? The Force Awakens? It sounds like it'll be a continuation of season three, but I could be wrong. I feel like we've gotten enough of Din's and Grogu's backstories in the show already, unless they want to sprinkle the film with more flashbacks to their respective histories.

It sounds like this film might be a set-up for whatever might happen in Filoni's film as a follow-up to Ahsoka, perhaps creating a new trilogy set between ROTJ and TFA, in the "Mando-verse" of characters.

-Marc.

(https://media.tenor.com/ctNSfLVjACAAAAAC/jeff-dunham-peanut-peanut.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 09, 2024, 02:40:17 PM
Is this the Filoni film that was previously announced as a wrap up to the Mandoverse? Or is this essentially The Mandalorian Season 4 with Filoni's film to close it out later?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on January 09, 2024, 02:59:15 PM
The search to find Grogu’s mom (and learn how she met Yoda).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: The Letter M on January 09, 2024, 05:02:50 PM
Is this the Filoni film that was previously announced as a wrap up to the Mandoverse? Or is this essentially The Mandalorian Season 4 with Filoni's film to close it out later?

https://www.starwars.com/news/the-mandalorian-and-grogu

Quote
The Mandalorian and Grogu are embarking on a new adventure — to movie theaters.

Directed by Jon Favreau, and produced by Favreau, Kathleen Kennedy, and Dave Filoni, The Mandalorian & Grogu will go into production in 2024.

“I have loved telling stories set in the rich world that George Lucas created,” said Favreau. “The prospect of bringing the Mandalorian and his apprentice Grogu to the big screen is extremely exciting.”

"Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni have ushered into Star Wars two new and beloved characters, and this new story is a perfect fit for the big screen," added Kathleen Kennedy, president of Lucasfilm.

The Mandalorian & Grogu will lead Lucasfilm's ongoing feature-development slate, including films helmed by Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy, James Mangold, and Dave Filoni, who is also currently developing Ahsoka Season 2, among those in the works.

This is the Way.


Very exciting news!

-Marc.

Based on that bolded part, it sounds like TM&G is in addition to Filoni's film, but they'll both take place in the same time frame based on the shows they've done on Disney+.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 13, 2024, 07:30:21 AM
Now I'm reading that season 4 is still happening and Favreau's Mando and Grodu movie will essentially be the season finale. That could be cool. Hopefully season 4 is more like the first two seasons.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on January 13, 2024, 08:25:28 AM
Interesting.  I'm seeing the exact opposite.

The Mandalorian Season 4 Reportedly "Not A Given" After Movie Announcement (https://screenrant.com/star-wars-the-mandalorian-season-4-future-still-being-decided/)

Quote
Another report has been circulating about The Mandalorian & Grogu acting as the finale for a 6-episode The Mandalorian season 4, though this also remains far from confirmed at this point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: lordxizor on January 13, 2024, 08:56:28 AM
Interesting.  I'm seeing the exact opposite.

The Mandalorian Season 4 Reportedly "Not A Given" After Movie Announcement (https://screenrant.com/star-wars-the-mandalorian-season-4-future-still-being-decided/)

Quote
Another report has been circulating about The Mandalorian & Grogu acting as the finale for a 6-episode The Mandalorian season 4, though this also remains far from confirmed at this point.
I just saw that one too. Obviously just tons of speculation all around. It would be nice if they'd just make an announcement.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: Orbert on January 13, 2024, 11:28:40 AM
I think they're still trying to figure it out themselves.  The Screenrant article says it looks like they're gonna see how the feature film does and go from there, but that doesn't really make sense, either.  Or it least it doesn't really work for me.  I hate waiting two or three years between seasons.  If they wait to decide to make another season, then they develop it, shoot it, post-production it, and we get it like two years later.  So if the movie comes out even this year, it's 2026 or 2027 before we get another season of The Mandalorian.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: HOF on January 13, 2024, 07:58:49 PM
I'm kind of annoyed by the prospect of a Mando and Grogu movie TBH. I don't really care for movies in general. Would rather have another season of the TV series if I had a choice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on January 22, 2024, 04:17:46 PM
Trailer for the final season of The Bad Batch.

Surprise character reveal at the end as well. Can't wait for this.

https://youtu.be/Oa5zeHdSwdQ?si=JikjOGv4iUtrmJaD
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 22, 2024, 04:43:45 PM
Trailer for the final season of The Bad Batch.

Surprise character reveal at the end as well. Can't wait for this.

https://youtu.be/Oa5zeHdSwdQ?si=JikjOGv4iUtrmJaD

Aw yeah!!!! Love Her....read up at one point as to what her arc looked like in other stories and what not and this looks like they took it that direction a little bit. Very cool. And there was a Bane sighting in there as well. Can't wait!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 24, 2024, 07:13:25 AM
Very excited for this. I've been wanting to do a clone wars re-watch and this seems like a good excuse to start.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2024, 11:51:34 PM
Trailer for the final season of The Bad Batch.

Surprise character reveal at the end as well. Can't wait for this.

https://youtu.be/Oa5zeHdSwdQ?si=JikjOGv4iUtrmJaD

Aw yeah!!!! Love Her....read up at one point as to what her arc looked like in other stories and what not and this looks like they took it that direction a little bit. Very cool. And there was a Bane sighting in there as well. Can't wait!
Yep definitely Cad Bane.

Looks good, though I hope it's more focused again like Season 1 was. Season 2 sort of meandered a bit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 22, 2024, 07:52:37 AM
First three episodes of Bad Batch are available. Watched them last night....pretty solid.