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Dream Theater => Concerts and Set Lists => Topic started by: zappafrank2112 on November 09, 2017, 10:30:19 AM
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Was he drunk or sick or something? He was acting really weird all night, and as much as I loved the show, I have to say he half-assed it about 75 to 80% of the night, trailing off his lines, not even trying to hit higher notes and instead inserting weird melodic substitutions.
He did hit most of the higher notes where it counted (like the "whoah-oh-oh" part in Learning to Live), but man, both my friend and I were really taken aback b/c the last few times we've seen them (Along for the Ride tour and The Astonishing), he was spot on all night. Last night, though... man, he showed all the signs of the "guy who used to sing high but just can't do it anymore." Which could be the case, but considering he was spot on just last year? Makes no sense, unless it's all just the constant touring from the last few years just catching up with him.
That said, I still had an amazing time and James's off-performance didn't detract from the overall experience - I'm a DT lifer since Pull Me Under 1st debuted on Headbangers Ball, plus I finally got to see A Change of Seasons after 12 shows/17 years of actually seeing them live. So it's definitely a show I'll look back on with fondness.
But man, I've never seen James so out of it before.
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This tour marked the first time James drastically altered some vocal melodies in order to be able to perform the songs live. Many of the high notes were extremely difficult for him over the first few months of the tour. I think the problem with higher notes dates from last year's The Astonishing tour, though. You might have caught him on a night where he was on, but some of the vocal lines from the album were tough to perform in concert.
I for one appreciate the effort he took to adjust the melodies, since it does require a lot of work. And I think for many people it's more pleasant to hear changed version that were sang well than a singer struggling to nail some inhuman sections.
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I think it's more that what he put in place of the usual notes ended up sounding very shaky and uncertain, like he wasn't sure where he was going with things. I totally get singers having to adapt to age (Rush being my favorite band, obvs I'm used to it, lol), but the combination of not getting the notes you're used to with a very "do I or don't I want to do it this way" approach (at least to me) really threw me for a loop.
Like I said, he brought it when he needed to in terms of a particular line making or breaking a song. It all just stood in contrast to my experience over the last few tours that "whoa, James sounds better than ever!"
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This tour marked the first time James drastically altered some vocal melodies in order to be able to perform the songs live. Many of the high notes were extremely difficult for him over the first few months of the tour. I think the problem with higher notes dates from last year's The Astonishing tour, though. You might have caught him on a night where he was on, but some of the vocal lines from the album were tough to perform in concert.
I for one appreciate the effort he took to adjust the melodies, since it does require a lot of work. And I think for many people it's more pleasant to hear changed version that were sang well than a singer struggling to nail some inhuman sections.
Man, that ain't no shit. Especially in his case. Though I'm not sure how it requires a lot of work. Given his background and familiarity with the material he could scat his way through it effortlessly if he wanted to. When Dio was having to alter his vocals he sang something different every night.
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Well, title is completely misleading.
There is nothing wrong about him, not a drunk or sick. The problem is, even his age he is forced to perform 3hours in one day in a heavy tour program. Still giving his best, being positive to the fans. And yet this thread is what he gets.
I used "force", yeah the band themselves decided this, JLB know the diffuculites, but still..
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Well, title is completely misleading.
There is nothing wrong about him, not a drunk or sick. The problem is, even his age he is forced to perform 3hours in one day in a heavy tour program. Still giving his best, being positive to the fans. And yet this thread is what he gets.
I used "force", yeah the band themselves decided this, JLB know the diffuculites, but still..
And yet this thread is what he gets? What is he, Portnoy now? One person expresses disappointment, then 3 people address his concerns, and this is somehow wrong?
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Yes, for me wrong.
Everyone knows, this tour and original tones of I&W is beyond James' limit. He can't sing those song like before, he can't hit properly high notes because of many reasons. I mean, not just kind of threads. This kind of "disappointments" are worded by people just like that if James is sick or drunk or even trolling the shows under the youtube vidoes.
James has his own fails, off nights due to his personal problems. Not hitting all those Another Day notes is not his personal problem. In DT section, there is a thread about Mike Mangini called being soulless and people are sick of hearing it. This is just same for me. Sorry if I seem sensetive about it (I'm not, I'm just sick of hearing that).
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I was at the show, James was fine. :lol
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Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge JLB fan and would still enjoy his performance if I attended a show nowadays (I haven't seen them live in two years, though), but like all fans, I still analyse and pay attention to the individual performances. We're allowed to respectfully share our thoughts.
Having said that, James wasn't drunk. :lol
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I'm gonna go with hopped up on goofballs.
In any case, the OP said that he understood the issues with JLB singing like it was 1992 again. He thought he half-assed it, and that's something I've seen from better folk than him. Dude might have just had an off night. Mabye his wife beat him up before the show. Maybe the OP was just wrong. Who knows? Dude's entitled to express his opinion and ask for thoughts, though, without it being criticized as an undo attack on St. Labrie.
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For people who were there, if your experience and observations differ from mine, that's totally cool - you at least are in a position to comment since you were there,.
For the people taking issue with my thread: unless you were at the show, don't comment on what you didn't experience.
And if you cared to read my responses, I explained that all of this was in relation to what I've experienced over the last few years, where James was spot on, and my experience this time was SUCH a stark contrast that it really perplexed me. And his between stage banter to my ears was rambling and not entirely controlled at times (if that makes sense), which altogether led me to ask "WTF was up with James?!"
And not all of us read this board on a regular basis, so sorry if you're "sick of hearing about it." I had an experience that perplexed me, I wanted to get others' opinions on whether they also had similar observations. If you don't want to discuss it, feel free to jump to the next thread.
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I'm gonna go with hopped up on goofballs.
In any case, the OP said that he understood the issues with JLB singing like it was 1992 again. He thought he half-assed it, and that's something I've seen from better folk than him. Dude might have just had an off night. Mabye his beat him up before the show. Maybe the OP was just wrong. Who knows? Dude's entitled to express his opinion and ask for thoughts, though, without it being criticized as an undo attack on St. Labrie.
No question, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but having been there last night I can tell you my opinion was that there was nothing wrong with James and he did fine.
I've seen him sing better and I've seen him sing worse. Last night, considering the difficulty of the set (probably the toughest I've seen him sing) he was good.
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I'm gonna go with hopped up on goofballs.
In any case, the OP said that he understood the issues with JLB singing like it was 1992 again. He thought he half-assed it, and that's something I've seen from better folk than him. Dude might have just had an off night. Mabye his beat him up before the show. Maybe the OP was just wrong. Who knows? Dude's entitled to express his opinion and ask for thoughts, though, without it being criticized as an undo attack on St. Labrie.
Thank you!
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And yet this thread is what he gets? What is he, Portnoy now? One person expresses disappointment, then 3 people address his concerns, and this is somehow wrong?
And it wasn't even total disappointment, either (and TBH, I'm not sure disappointment even is the right word... really just more of an observation... it's not like I walked away feeling let down), as I tried to make clear! But people only see what they want, I guess.
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better folk than him
Uhhh... what? Me or James? Zuh?
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And his between stage banter to my ears was rambling and not entirely controlled at times (if that makes sense), which altogether led me to ask "WTF was up with James?!"
I get differing opinions on his singing performance, but this part makes me pause. James has literally done awkward, rambling stage banter since he's been in the band, that's part of his personality. Still trying to figure out why it made you react that way. Every DT show I've seen has had at least one or two awkward James speaking moments, it's definitely not his strength (and he has admitted that).
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I get differing opinions on his singing performance, but this part makes me pause. James has literally done awkward, rambling stage banter since he's been in the band, that's part of his personality. Still trying to figure out why it made you react that way. Every DT show I've seen has had at least one or two awkward James speaking moments, it's definitely not his strength (and he has admitted that).
I dunno, but for some reason I just really noticed it more this time. Your guess is as good as mine as to why.
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And his between stage banter to my ears was rambling and not entirely controlled at times (if that makes sense), which altogether led me to ask "WTF was up with James?!"
I get differing opinions on his singing performance, but this part makes me pause. James has literally done awkward, rambling stage banter since he's been in the band, that's part of his personality. Still trying to figure out why it made you react that way. Every DT show I've seen has had at least one or two awkward James speaking moments, it's definitely not his strength (and he has admitted that).
I've honestly never noticed it before. I've heard him do weird shit before. The heroin inspired Caught in a New Milleneum certainly comes to mind. His banter has always seemed alright. Although, his banter down here seems to be little more than "thank you Grand Prairie, good night." :lol
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Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge JLB fan and would still enjoy his performance if I attended a show nowadays (I haven't seen them live in two years, though), but like all fans, I still analyse and pay attention to the individual performances. We're allowed to respectfully share our thoughts.
Having said that, James wasn't drunk. :lol
Well, that's the point. The way we put our expriences makes all the dfiference.
But... This is what I worried before the I&W tour began. Even though this is an anniversary tour, I think the band decided to do that tour due to financial reasons and regain the fans after TA's mixed (and mostly unappreciated) feedbacks. Whatever the reasons they are, this tour is heavy burden for James. The band and James surely know this risks. I see him doing fine, doing really bad, doing absolutely fantastic on that tour (by only watching youtube). Having said that, yeah he is not drunk. :lol
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The heroin inspired Caught in a New Milleneum certainly comes to mind.
???
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I've honestly never noticed it before. I've heard him do weird shit before. The heroin inspired Caught in a New Milleneum certainly comes to mind. His banter has always seemed alright. Although, his banter down here seems to be little more than "thank you Grand Prairie, good night." :lol
Eye of the beholder, right? I generally agree that his banter usually seems alright but everyone's opinion of that will be different. My larger point was that last night he had the opportunity as a part of the show to speak a little more than he usually does, so his sometimes awkward banter was a little more out there than usual, but still in line with James' personality.
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The heroin inspired Caught in a New Milleneum certainly comes to mind.
???
:lol
Oh, look, another person who doesn't get EB's sense of humor.
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I've honestly never noticed it before. I've heard him do weird shit before. The heroin inspired Caught in a New Milleneum certainly comes to mind. His banter has always seemed alright. Although, his banter down here seems to be little more than "thank you Grand Prairie, good night." :lol
Eye of the beholder, right? I generally agree that his banter usually seems alright but everyone's opinion of that will be different. My larger point was that last night he had the opportunity as a part of the show to speak a little more than he usually does, so his sometimes awkward banter was a little more out there than usual, but still in line with James' personality.
"How the hell do you dance to The Mirror?!"
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"How the hell do you dance to The Mirror?!"
:lol
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The heroin inspired Caught in a New Milleneum certainly comes to mind.
???
:lol
Oh, look, another person who doesn't get EB's sense of humor.
It wasn't a CiaNM that I was thinking of, but just CiaW from the Birch Hill bootleg. Dude sounded like Kurt Cobain on a particularly bad night.
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In Los Angeles, James announced that they've been on the road nonstop for two years and things could get a little silly at any point in the night.
I'm sure whatever happened at the Pittsburgh show was a sign of pure exhaustion.
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In Los Angeles, James announced that they've been on the road nonstop for two years and things could get a little silly at any point in the night.
I'm sure whatever happened at the Pittsburgh show was a sign of pure exhaustion.
Well, I'm sure others will dispute whether anything "happened," per se, lol. And I didn't mean to imply an isolated incident, just his demeanor the whole night.
But yeah, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I do recognize the marathon touring they've been doing
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I feel like maybe they should be a bit wiser in how they tour. Seems like at least 2 members of the band aren't too happy about it.
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I feel like maybe they should be a bit wiser in how they tour. Seems like at least 2 members of the band aren't too happy about it.
If I had to guess, I'm thinking that the back to back runs for The Astonishing and I&W25 is more a function of wanting to commemorate the latter, which just happens to have fallen right after an album touring cycle. Looking at the itinerary, TA was Feb '16 through Dec '16, and then right in Jan of this year, they picked up for I&W25 which is still going.
Under normal circumstances, I imagine they don't do a straight 2 years of touring.
ETA: Well, it does look like there were stretches of time off both years, in late summer for 2 to 3 months depending, plus a few weeks together here and there. But still, it's been a marathon all things considered, driven probably by the I&W anniversary.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge JLB fan and would still enjoy his performance if I attended a show nowadays (I haven't seen them live in two years, though), but like all fans, I still analyse and pay attention to the individual performances. We're allowed to respectfully share our thoughts.
Having said that, James wasn't drunk. :lol
Well, that's the point. The way we put our expriences makes all the dfiference.
But... This is what I worried before the I&W tour began. Even though this is an anniversary tour, I think the band decided to do that tour due to financial reasons and regain the fans after TA's mixed (and mostly unappreciated) feedbacks. Whatever the reasons they are, this tour is heavy burden for James. The band and James surely know this risks. I see him doing fine, doing really bad, doing absolutely fantastic on that tour (by only watching youtube). Having said that, yeah he is not drunk. :lol
Bosk has said many times that the IAW&B tour is not really about rebounding from the underappreciated TA album and tour. My own reading is that they probably know that this is the last time they could give tribute to the album, given their age. They won't play this set again.
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My own reading is that they probably know that this is the last time they could give tribute to the album, given their age.
Their age?!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Jordan being older than the others and the effects of aging on James' voice aside, they're no older than 54!
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The next I&W milestone would be the 30th anniv. Do you think they could still play the whole album again five years down the line given the effect of aging on James' voice?
The best time is now.
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I feel like maybe they should be a bit wiser in how they tour. Seems like at least 2 members of the band aren't too happy about it.
They won't be touring the entire next year, so I think that solves that problem.
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I was at the Detroit show last night. Logged in specifically for this.
James was weird last night and not very strong, vocally speaking. He said right away that he was "feeling pretty wacky tonight, so you guys are in for a treat." To be fair, the banter was decently funny, but it seemed like people were saying about the Pittsburgh show, that he was just tailing off lines and not doing much of the high stuff. Granted, when he went for the high notes, they usually came out flat, forcing him to do his crazy wide vibrato thing.
Now, to make this perfectly clear. I'm not hating on James at all for not being as good a singer as he was 25 years ago. The food poisoning accident was horrible and sad, we all know that. And it seems like he was doing miraculously better recently. All 3 times I saw them on the Dramatic Turn tour, he was spot on the whole time. I know the I&W&B tour setlist is incredibly taxing, and you can't expect to hold it up for a year. As far as the tailing off phrases thing, maybe he's just bored. I know lots of us never get tired of hearing those songs, but I bet it gets really obnoxious when you have to play them every night for months at a time and it's a struggle to hit a lot of the notes on top of that.
That said, the instrumental portion of the show was still phenomenal. Mangini seems like he's gelling a lot more with the rest of the guys, doing little improvs here and there. And it still stuns me that all four guys can get through all the unison runs in Metropolis. And obviously seeing ACOS live was a huge cross off my bucket list, so that's nice too. I'd be lying if I said that James' performance didn't take away some of the magic though. I know it's not his fault, but it's still a bummer.
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I feel like maybe they should be a bit wiser in how they tour. Seems like at least 2 members of the band aren't too happy about it.
They won't be touring the entire next year, so I think that solves that problem.
Exactly. And once again, I'm not trying to dismiss anything thing zappafrank is saying, but I've seen DT 9 times (I think) and (IMO) there was nothing that happened a couple nights ago that was terribly out of character for any of the guys. I'd prefer not to see rumors started based on a guy thinking James was acting weird, but that's just me.
I was at the Detroit show last night. Logged in specifically for this.
James was weird last night and not very strong, vocally speaking. He said right away that he was "feeling pretty wacky tonight, so you guys are in for a treat." To be fair, the banter was decently funny, but it seemed like people were saying about the Pittsburgh show, that he was just tailing off lines and not doing much of the high stuff. Granted, when he went for the high notes, they usually came out flat, forcing him to do his crazy wide vibrato thing.
Now, to make this perfectly clear. I'm not hating on James at all for not being as good a singer as he was 25 years ago. The food poisoning accident was horrible and sad, we all know that. And it seems like he was doing miraculously better recently. All 3 times I saw them on the Dramatic Turn tour, he was spot on the whole time. I know the I&W&B tour setlist is incredibly taxing, and you can't expect to hold it up for a year. As far as the tailing off phrases thing, maybe he's just bored. I know lots of us never get tired of hearing those songs, but I bet it gets really obnoxious when you have to play them every night for months at a time and it's a struggle to hit a lot of the notes on top of that.
Maybe I'm way off base because now multiple people are saying it, he certainly struggled vocally at times but I expected him to based on the difficulty of the set. But, to me, James has always been a little goofy and weird on stage, there are tons of examples I could site, but it certainly increased a bit once MP left and James seemed to feel more comfortable talking in specific spots. A lot of that went away for TA because of the production of the show but it's always been there from where I've sat.
I dunno maybe I'm wrong and James is a terrible drunk now.
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Reasonable expectations, ya'll... most greenhorn singers in their early 20s couldn't sing today what James sang back in 92. Cut him some slack, the guy's 54 out there singing 3 hour sets every night for months on end singing one of the most vocally demanding albums out there...
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I was at the Detroit show last night. Logged in specifically for this.
James was weird last night and not very strong, vocally speaking. He said right away that he was "feeling pretty wacky tonight, so you guys are in for a treat." To be fair, the banter was decently funny, but it seemed like people were saying about the Pittsburgh show, that he was just tailing off lines and not doing much of the high stuff. Granted, when he went for the high notes, they usually came out flat, forcing him to do his crazy wide vibrato thing.
Now, to make this perfectly clear. I'm not hating on James at all for not being as good a singer as he was 25 years ago. The food poisoning accident was horrible and sad, we all know that. And it seems like he was doing miraculously better recently. All 3 times I saw them on the Dramatic Turn tour, he was spot on the whole time. I know the I&W&B tour setlist is incredibly taxing, and you can't expect to hold it up for a year. As far as the tailing off phrases thing, maybe he's just bored. I know lots of us never get tired of hearing those songs, but I bet it gets really obnoxious when you have to play them every night for months at a time and it's a struggle to hit a lot of the notes on top of that.
Maybe I'm way off base because now multiple people are saying it, he certainly struggled vocally at times but I expected him to based on the difficulty of the set. But, to me, James has always been a little goofy and weird on stage, there are tons of examples I could site, but it certainly increased a bit once MP left and James seemed to feel more comfortable talking in specific spots. A lot of that went away for TA because of the production of the show but it's always been there from where I've sat.
I dunno maybe I'm wrong and James is a terrible drunk now.
This is my 6th time seeing them. It wasn't really the in-between songs banter that bugged me. That was pretty normal. I'm mostly talking about when he was actually performing. He would make weird voices and melody changes in strange places.
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This is my 6th time seeing them. It wasn't really the in-between songs banter that bugged me. That was pretty normal. I'm mostly talking about when he was actually performing. He would make weird voices and melody changes in strange places.
Gotcha, he definitely is altering melodies a lot more this tour than usual, that stuck out at the Pittsburgh show as well.
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I’ve never seen DT live, and probably never will, since they never come to Peru when they tour. So, if I had the chance to see them live, I wouldn’t even think about James’ rough vocals, I’d go without a doubt and would enjoy every second of it. I think people are taking DT’s shows for granted, instead of being happy they tour your cities on a regular basis.
Having said that, I do think James’s been struggling a lot in recent years, and think they should do something about it.
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I’ve never seen DT live, and probably never will, since they never come to Peru when they tour. So, if I had the chance to see them live, I wouldn’t even think about James’ rough vocals, I’d go without a doubt and would enjoy every second of it. I think people are taking DT’s shows for granted, instead of being happy they tour your cities on a regular basis.
Having said that, I do think James’s been struggling a lot in recent years, and think they should do something about it.
I don't think people are taking the shows for granted. At least the people who don't live in Penn or NY. Hell, I can't stand the dude, and I'm pretty soured on the band in general, but I'm still looking forward to seeing them next month. Hell, I haven't even ruled out catching a second show.
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Having said that, I do think James’s been struggling a lot in recent years, and think they should do something about it.
I think they've done what they can at this point. They can't lower the songs even further.
Unless you're talking personnel change, or hiatus, which I feel is entering more and more into the realm of possibility.
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Having said that, I do think James’s been struggling a lot in recent years, and think they should do something about it.
I think they've done what they can at this point. They can't lower the songs even further.
Unless you're talking personnel change, or hiatus, which I feel is entering more and more into the realm of possibility.
I was thinking of not playing the songs he definitely cannot nail anymore. I mean, DT has a long enough catalog, so it wouldn't be a big deal really if they don't play a few songs never again. They could also include a couple instrumentals (or songs with long instrumental breacs ala Metropolis or BAI) so James doesn't have to push his voice too hard on every show. That would be the easiest/wisest option, I think.
My other option would be to actually replace him (Fabio Lione FTW :metal) but that would be a last resource option.
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My other option would be to actually replace him (Fabio Lione FTW :metal) but that would be a last resource option.
gzarruk, I like your taste in singers...
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I feel like maybe they should be a bit wiser in how they tour. Seems like at least 2 members of the band aren't too happy about it.
They won't be touring the entire next year, so I think that solves that problem.
Not really. If I told you to run 50 miles non-stop, would the fact that you could take a year off of running make that easier? No.
Would it help if you could run 2 miles and then take a break and so forth? Yup! That's more of what I'm talking about.
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My other option would be to actually replace him (Fabio Lione FTW :metal) but that would be a last resource option.
gzarruk, I like your taste in singers...
I'm not a fan of Rhapsody, but Fabio did an excellent job on Angra's Secret Garden, he would be a very nice fit for DT :hefdaddy
I feel like maybe they should be a bit wiser in how they tour. Seems like at least 2 members of the band aren't too happy about it.
They won't be touring the entire next year, so I think that solves that problem.
Not really. If I told you to run 50 miles non-stop, would the fact that you could take a year off of running make that easier? No.
Would it help if you could run 2 miles and then take a break and so forth? Yup! That's more of what I'm talking about.
I agree with Adami, but I don't think a touring schedule like that would be viable for DT at all, since that would mean longer hotel stays, etc.
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I really believe this tour is the last hurrah for these songs, save maybe a Pull Me Under/Metropolis mashup as an encore on some tours.
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I think this is the last hurrah for four songs: Another Day, TTT, LtL, and ACOS.
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I was not at the Pittsburgh show, but I was in Detroit and several other midwest shows. JLB was not drunk, nor was he singing poorly. He sang the songs the same way each night - it was clearly prearranged to modify some of the melodies so he wouldn't have to attempt so many high notes.
I think that's perfectly valid. I get that if you were expecting to hear things the same way as on the record it might be disappointing or maybe a little disconcerting
What he's actually doing conflicts with what you have in your head. And the first time I heard the changes it took getting used to for me, but I realized it was intentional and it didn't at all sound bad. It worked quite well actually.
While I don't think it would be the best idea for them to keep doing tours full of old songs with the highest notes, I think it would work very well for them to include a few songs per show with the altered vocal melodies.
Short version: he's been doing what he (and I imagine JP) set out for him to do on this tour and has been doing it incredibly well. Not to mention his stage presence is excellent - I think he stepped it up for TA tour and has taken some of that with him to this tour.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge JLB fan and would still enjoy his performance if I attended a show nowadays (I haven't seen them live in two years, though), but like all fans, I still analyse and pay attention to the individual performances. We're allowed to respectfully share our thoughts.
Having said that, James wasn't drunk. :lol
Well, that's the point. The way we put our expriences makes all the dfiference.
But... This is what I worried before the I&W tour began. Even though this is an anniversary tour, I think the band decided to do that tour due to financial reasons and regain the fans after TA's mixed (and mostly unappreciated) feedbacks. Whatever the reasons they are, this tour is heavy burden for James. The band and James surely know this risks. I see him doing fine, doing really bad, doing absolutely fantastic on that tour (by only watching youtube). Having said that, yeah he is not drunk. :lol
Bosk has said many times that the IAW&B tour is not really about rebounding from the underappreciated TA album and tour. My own reading is that they probably know that this is the last time they could give tribute to the album, given their age. They won't play this set again.
Yup I agree age has really caught up with James specially singing the I&W set, I am curious about the Pittsburgh show see how it compares to the European and Asian Segment of the tour.
They won't play this set again
:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:
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Regarding the talking spots - they were among my favorite portions of the show, just fun, small stories about the band in the early days. And general lunacy like "The Popcorn Incident" (youtube it if you havent seen it).
But yeah, they didnt intend to set out on a world wide tour of "Images and Words and Beyond" - it was only supposed to be a small tour of a couple of months. But they didn't expect promoters to go crazy and throw money after them to get them to come "everywhere", so they decided to restructure their plan into a full year of touring.
The Astonishing wasn't a big money loss for them, as the risk was always on the promoters. Now, it didnt really become a big income source EITHER, because smaller venues means less people attending means fewer ticket sales means generally lower income - and most of the money had already been spent on production. But they didnt go in the red for doing the tour - far from it :P
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Good lord this thread. DT-side, you never fail to disappoint.
:youfail:
Reasonable expectations, ya'll... most greenhorn singers in their early 20s couldn't sing today what James sang back in 92. Cut him some slack, the guy's 54 out there singing 3 hour sets every night for months on end singing one of the most vocally demanding albums out there...
Short version: he's been doing what he (and I imagine JP) set out for him to do on this tour and has been doing it incredibly well. Not to mention his stage presence is excellent - I think he stepped it up for TA tour and has taken some of that with him to this tour.
The two most reasonable posts here.
Replace him just because he's not up to your (clearly impossibly high) standards? :lolpalm: Ya'll probably wanted Dickinson to be replaced 10 years ago too.
He was FANTASTIC in Toronto last night. Yes, many melodies were altered, but he hasn't been able to nail Take the Time at all since the injury, and even before then he was spotty on it (especially the verse 'if there's a pensive fear ...' - they cut that verse right out of the PN2009 tour). He nailed a more than a few of the high notes he was going for last night, but just can't hold them for the 8-10 seconds that he did in the studio. He held some of the lower note for long durations though - eg, the very last line of the show "I will live oooooooooooon" was perfectly delivered.
To expect him to do so at his age, given his injury event 20 years ago, and the tour schedule they've been on is a ridiculous expectation. Go listen to (the redubbed) Live at Marquee if you need your live fix that sounds like the studio. Me, I'm fine with him just the way he sounds.
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I would also much rather he alter the melodies for Take the Time than to cut that part out altogether (the pensive fear part)
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I just want to take a minute to acknowledge how awesome those lyrics and that part of TTT are. I remember standing in front of high school waiting for the doors to open many years ago just replaying that section over and over in my CD player just because it was that cool. :metal
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Was @ the Pittsburgh show, felt like i'd add my $0.02 ....
I did *not* come away from the show thinking "There's something wrong with James."
James is performing extremely well, considering the setlist. The word i would use to describe his performance in Pittsburgh would be: inconsistent. The example that jumps out at me is how he sounded on back to back songs. Pull Me Under was basically perfect. He sounded great! Good energy and sound throughout the whole song. Next was Another Day, and he sounded.... strained. It stuck out to me because of the stark contrast from literally back to back songs. So, is he maybe overextending himself? Possibly pushing his voice a little too hard at some points, but then doesn't have to time to recover for the next song where there are a ton of high notes? James himself has said in interviews how in their earlier songs he's "...in the stratosphere.", so maybe it's just beyond his capabilities to do a full album like Images & Words in a single night....
However.... I also agree with the original post. For The Astonishing tour, James was amazing! I remember leaving a review on here the next day describing JLB as a "powerhouse". Nothing stuck out in the entire night that would make me think he's having issues with his voice, and TA is not what i'd consider an "easy" album. So, *is* there something wrong with his voice? Is he just pushing himself a little too hard this time around?
I'm sure we could analyze all this for days, but ultimately i think James is fine. "Off" nights combined with a grueling tour schedule of a challenging album.
I definitely do *not* agree with considering a new frontman. I consider JLB the soul of the band. You can replace any of the other band members, and someone could potentially play the songs close enough to the original that you might not even notice (JR and MM are obvious examples of that)... But replace JLB and you have a completely different sound/ feel for the band. Which i guess is what people are asking for then, but not me.
P.S. The comments about his "banter" seem strange to me. He's a silly guy, and he's silly on stage. I enjoy all the stories and things he does on stage between songs.
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I definitely do *not* agree with considering a new frontman. I consider JLB the soul of the band. You can replace any of the other band members, and someone could potentially play the songs close enough to the original that you might not even notice (JR and MM are obvious examples of that)... But replace JLB and you have a completely different sound/ feel for the band. Which i guess is what people are asking for then, but not me.
Not JP.
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Not JP.
Lol, i did say "might not notice".
There are some damn good guitarists out there that would definitely come close..... but you're right. Petrucci is a one of kind guitar god. :metal
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I have seen Dream Theater twice in the past two years. Leading up to both shows, I read numerous posts about how James wasn't sounding good. I saw numerous clips of James missing notes or messing up a lyric. I went into those shows preparing for some Blink-182-style vocal suckage.
You know what though? James sounded good both times. Part of that probably has to do with the adrenaline of being there. If you recorded his vocals and analyzed them post-show, I'm sure you'd find mistakes. But he still sounded good in the moment, which is really all that matters to me.
At the end of the day, I think the guy is singing this material about as well as a 50-year-old can. Everyone in Dream Theater still puts on a great show.
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I've been to shows where he REALLY didn't sound good, but we're talking "on the verge of cancelling due to loss of voice"... He'd apologize and continue the show as best as he could, but people did notice big time.
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No offense to the OP but as a life long vocalist one year younger that JL I see things differently. I've been at show where James has been awesome and the feedback was "wow, James just doesn't have it anymore!"
I say nonsense. He sounds great especially with the amount of touring he does at his age. I have only seen one show where I feel James really went easy and that was two days before he did Score in NYC, so I get it.
I'll be in NYC Thursday night and I'm expecting a great performance and I'm sure I'll get it! :metal
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Yeah the I&W material is where James Struggles the most. I wouldn't be surprised if this tour ends up being a farewell for most of the songs from this album. Apart from occasionally pulling out Pull Me Under or Metropolis.
Also he may need a bit of a break from touring. I'm sure doing 3 hour shows a lot can be taxing let alone at his age. After this tour if they spend a good chunk of the time off the road making a new album I think it would be really good for him. When I saw them at the boston opera house James was basically on point the entire night. He especially nailed the Awake songs so I know he still has some left in the tank.
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I was at the show, James was fine. :lol
Me too....he was fine.
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I say nonsense. He sounds great especially with the amount of touring he does at his age.
I dunno. I for one am not particularly capable of this "caveat enjoyment". When I watch my favorite sports team lose because they played 3 games in one week, I can say "of course they're tired", but that doesn't mean it's a good game by them or it's enjoyable soccer to watch.
I'm actually seeing them tonight, but if James is off-pitch the whole time I doubt I'll be able to use the grueling schedule as a way to increase my enjoyment.
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But that's the thing, he's not off-pitch at all. He changes some of the melodies to fit his voice, and can't hold the F# in LTL for 10 seconds, but he sounds perfectly fine. To use the sports analogy, Brady has had to adapt his playing style as he ages. He can't heave it the way he did 15 years ago!
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But that's the thing, he's not off-pitch at all.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. James is off-pitch a LOT, and he has struggled with that throughout his career.
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But that's the thing, he's not off-pitch at all.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. James is off-pitch a LOT, and he has struggled with that throughout his career.
True... I was listening to CiM yesterday, and man a few of those songs were a trainwreck. Hence the likely reason why he's altering the melodies of the really high parts from I&W.
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But that's the thing, he's not off-pitch at all.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. James is off-pitch a LOT, and he has struggled with that throughout his career.
Well, how did he sound?
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To use the sports analogy, Brady has had to adapt his playing style as he ages. He can't heave it the way he did 15 years ago!
But Brady is better than he was 15 years ago...
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I really believe this tour is the last hurrah for these songs, save maybe a Pull Me Under/Metropolis mashup as an encore on some tours.
Take the Time, Another Day, Change of Seasons... yea I think those songs may be shelved for good besides maybe a special show or something. Maybe even Learning to Live. It's part of the reason why I am going to see this show multiple times. Some of my favorite DT songs and I think it's a strong possibility these don't get performed again.
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Was at last nights show and it definitely was not one of the best I’ve seen of James, but he wasn’t horrible (I’ve seen DT about 30 times now). He wasn’t very energetic although he was very theatrical while he was singing, mainly with his facial expressions and hand gestures. It was kind of strange to watch at times. In most of the shows I’ve seen since MP left I feel like James has really stepped it up, but I didn’t feel that way last night. I think the break before they regroup later next year to start writing the new album will do them all some good, although I do have to say that Mangini seemed to be having the time of his life.
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I think Change of seasons still sounds pretty damn good so I hope they keep busting that out occasionally
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I think Change of seasons still sounds pretty damn good so I hope they keep busting that out occasionally
I would prefer to see Octavarium next :metal
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I think Change of seasons still sounds pretty damn good so I hope they keep busting that out occasionally
I would prefer to see Octavarium next :metal
oh same here. I just don't seasons shelved indefinitely lol
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My verdict on the evening is, he sounded really strong in the first quarter. The I&W part he battled with, and people around me were having discussion about the state of his vocals. The end of the I&W set was awesome actually mostly due to MM, who was giving it all in his home town. Awesome banter also involving JP and MM.
ACOS is hard to judge for me because I was getting tired myself, and I had the impression they were too.
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I think Change of seasons still sounds pretty damn good so I hope they keep busting that out occasionally
I would prefer to see Octavarium next :metal
oh same here. I just don't seasons shelved indefinitely lol
Personally I lumped it with others as shelved due mostly to length moreso than JLB. Songs that long are hard to consistently keep in a setlist. It had been so long since they played it, they played it for the world, now I don't know when they find the setlist time to include it again. I think seeing Octavarium in the setlist again is more likely just as a rotation more son than JLB.
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My verdict on the evening is, he sounded really strong in the first quarter. The I&W part he battled with, and people around me were having discussion about the state of his vocals. The end of the I&W set was awesome actually mostly due to MM, who was giving it all in his home town. Awesome banter also involving JP and MM.
ACOS is hard to judge for me because I was getting tired myself, and I had the impression they were too.
I didn't have any real issues with James's vocal performance, but I found the between-song banter to be pretty cringey and drawn out this time around. I definitely remember James being funnier than this. :lol
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Wonder if they are all just getting tired since the whole tour is coming to an end soon. Running out of things to say, dropping a song from the setlist... I hope not since now is my time to catch them. Hoping they put on a sweet show for the NYC hometown audience. Although they then get a day off and maybe will be pretty energized for Saturdays show not too far from NYC.
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My verdict on the evening is, he sounded really strong in the first quarter. The I&W part he battled with, and people around me were having discussion about the state of his vocals. The end of the I&W set was awesome actually mostly due to MM, who was giving it all in his home town. Awesome banter also involving JP and MM.
ACOS is hard to judge for me because I was getting tired myself, and I had the impression they were too.
I didn't have any real issues with James's vocal performance, but I found the between-song banter to be pretty cringey and drawn out this time around. I definitely remember James being funnier than this. :lol
Well, specifically I enjoyed when JP stepped up. James' banter, yeah, kinda cringey, especially the "put your phone down" routine.
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My verdict on the evening is, he sounded really strong in the first quarter. The I&W part he battled with, and people around me were having discussion about the state of his vocals. The end of the I&W set was awesome actually mostly due to MM, who was giving it all in his home town. Awesome banter also involving JP and MM.
ACOS is hard to judge for me because I was getting tired myself, and I had the impression they were too.
I didn't have any real issues with James's vocal performance, but I found the between-song banter to be pretty cringey and drawn out this time around. I definitely remember James being funnier than this. :lol
What was the banter all about? what did they talked about?
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I barely even remember. James called out some people who were filming with their phones for extended periods of time instead of just watching the show with their own eyes, which hey, I agree with, but you don't need to stall the show for that. Probably the best bit was a story about when they were touring in New Orleans, but that was super drawn out too. Would have been better if JP just walked up to the mic and said "If you guys got paid by the note, you'd be millionaires" instead of preceding it with the bostonian accent jokes. Other than that, there was just a bunch of really bizarre introductions to band members from James (i.e. randomly saying he's going to beat Jordan up after the show) and unfunny small talk. It was weird.
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I'd same his banter last night was hit or miss. Sometimes it would come to such a slow story that you could tell people just wanted them to continue playing, other times it was engaging and funny. JP was the funnier one speaking in a funny voice for his brief banter.
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I'd same his banter last night was hit or miss. Sometimes it would come to such a slow story that you could tell people just wanted them to continue playing, other times it was engaging and funny. JP was the funnier one speaking in a funny voice for his brief banter.
I thought LaBrie's banter was perfectly adequate. Not too long or lame. Petrucci was pretty funny during that part.
LaBrie very wisely altered some melodies. He didn't even attempt to sing the highest parts in Take The Time. I didn't detect any off notes but it was my first time seeing the band so I was pretty excited. Even the Learning To Live part sounded pretty good to me. The only criticism I have is more of a subjective thing: I just didn't care for the sound or tone of LaBrie's voice. It was very nasally, snarly, & abrasive.
And everything just sounded weird tuned down especially when they played Waiting for Sleep in the original tuning.
Can't believe I enjoyed Mangini's drum solo in Metropolis. I usually dislike drum solos.
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MM's solo seemed similar to his other one's including his favorite part at the end, but I LOVED when they went back into Metropolis and did it slowly note by note. That was SICK.
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How much of IaW did they tune down / by how much? I didn't really notice it aside from Pull Me Under, but I also wasn't sure at the time if it was tuned down or if I was just hearing things.
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How much of IaW did they tune down / by how much? I didn't really notice it aside from Pull Me Under, but I also wasn't sure at the time if it was tuned down or if I was just hearing things.
All of IAW (except WFS) and ACOS are being played a half step lower.
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How much of IaW did they tune down / by how much? I didn't really notice it aside from Pull Me Under, but I also wasn't sure at the time if it was tuned down or if I was just hearing things.
All of IAW (except WFS) and ACOS are being played a half step lower.
Which, honestly, doesn't make the vocals that much easier. It's mostly his changing melodies that is helping. Doing both just seems redundant.
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How much of IaW did they tune down / by how much? I didn't really notice it aside from Pull Me Under, but I also wasn't sure at the time if it was tuned down or if I was just hearing things.
All of IAW (except WFS) and ACOS are being played a half step lower.
Which, honestly, doesn't make the vocals that much easier. It's mostly his changing melodies that is helping. Doing both just seems redundant.
Completely agree with you.
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Huh, yeah that seems a bit strange. Is this the first time DT has ever tuned songs down to make them easier on James?
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I saw the Long Island show last night. Having seen DT probably 20 times in the 90's (starting with SPARKS!!) but not having seen them since 1999, I came away very happy.
Yes, James can't sing the high notes. Cut the man some slack! He's in his 50's. I could feel his frustration and know exactly what he's going through.
Someone mentioned him doing a 3 hour show. Well, how much of that does he actually sing. Not that it matters. Singing this material is hard - even when you are in your prime!
That said, he had some difficulty with notes that were not too high. He was flat during a lot of "Another Day." However, I thought he was really quite good during all of CHANGE OF SEASONS.
I also dislike the sampled background vocal harmonies.
Did Mike Mangini really have a triggered snare drum sound???
Don't take these as complaints - just nit picking. I had a great time!
Oh yeah . . . no songs from "Awake" :-(
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Did Mike Mangini really have a triggered snare drum sound???
Someone else can correct me if I am wrong, but to the best of my knowledge MM does not use any triggers live.
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Oh yeah . . . no songs from "Awake" :-(
Should have seen the Along for the Ride tour. They played the second half of the album. Two tours before that they played 6:00, Caught in a Web, and Silent Man.
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Oh yeah . . . no songs from "Awake" :-(
Should have seen the Along for the Ride tour. They played the second half of the album. Two tours before that they played 6:00, Caught in a Web, and Silent Man.
Well, I was an . . ummm . . . "guest" of the State of New York for 12 years, so this was my first real chance to see them since 1999. Had a great time. My girlfriend at least acted like she did :-)
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Oh crap. Sorry to hear that.
Well, at least you got that stuff documented on live albums.
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Oh crap. Sorry to hear that.
Well, at least you got that stuff documented on live albums.
Of course. I was even able to figure out a way to get stuff in so I could hear it. In New York then you could only receive cassettes!!! There are always ways! :-) Inmates are very creative :-)
DT was the only band that I asked my father to buy the new CDs for me when they came out. He would send me photocopies of the inserts.
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Did Mike Mangini really have a triggered snare drum sound???
Someone else can correct me if I am wrong, but to the best of my knowledge MM does not use any triggers live.
He doesn't use triggers live or in the studio.
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Just wanted to chime in and say that James was good in Baltimore last night, and I'm real nitpicky about vocals and was listening closely to that element. I mean, yeah, he was a bit flat in a few different places (second verse of TBP, first verse of UAGM, higher verses in LTL, end of ACOS), but he was on for all the other hard sections. Of course the melodies are altered, but I was impressed at how much of the original stuff was still (more or less) in there and executed well (Surrounded, middle of ACOS, end of LTL, etc.). Stage banter was silly but I was amused.
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Seemed to me he half-assed the entire first set, but did a great job of doing so. You knew he wasn't singing all the notes, but he performed the music well. He 80 percented the second set, and did just as fine a job. His performance was much better than had he gone out, tried to be faithful and mucked it all up. From that perspective he was probably better than most of the times I've seen him. It also seemed he saved his best effort for ACoS, and I really appreciated that.
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Not sure if it was because of being in his 'hometown', but I thought he was as good as he's ever been in the last 10 years. I think he paced himself so that he still could deliver a great encore with ACOS.
All in all, I think we were treated to a great tour, and I wouldn't have missed it for anything.
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For all the changed melodies and down tuning and whatnot, JLB nailed ACOS all three nights I saw him. He sounded soooo good last night on that one. Maybe his overall best performance of the three ngihts as well. I do think the band was a bit off at spots though, I think overall, the band performed better in NYC. Not complaining though, I think last night's show was the best of the tour for me and one of my all time favorites of seeing them. The venue was great and I had an awesome view and seat.