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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: gzarruk on November 04, 2017, 03:52:55 PM
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He says it here: https://youtu.be/YTvjy47rB1U?t=46s
The video is from October 18th, so I think it's safe to say the mix should be already finished by now. I wonder if it's a TA live audio release or something from the current tour :o
EDIT from bosk1:
***UPDATE***
DO NOT POST/SHARE/REQUEST LINKS TO ANY RECORDINGS OF THIS SHOW. AS OF NOW, IT IS OFF-LIMITS.
That's all I can say at the moment on the subject, but I just got word from band management that it is off limits, at least for the time being.
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Ooo...Ytsejam release maybe.
Here's hoping for The Astonishing.
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Ooo...Ytsejam release maybe.
Here's hoping for The Astonishing.
I remember that Jordan posted about the Budokan show of the IWAB tour was filmed, maybe it has something to do with that? Either way, this is great news :metal
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Ooo...Ytsejam release maybe.
Here's hoping for The Astonishing.
I remember that Jordan posted about the Budokan show of the IWAB tour was filmed, maybe it has something to do with that? Either way, this is great news :metal
Possibly so. Thats what I'm guessing it is. Maybe we'll get bonus tracks of DLPM and TLF
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A CD of the current tour would be best, since those old songs sound so different now plus with the lowered tuning. Makes it kinda interesting. The Astonishing live would sound basically the same as the CD
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YESS
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Hell yeah!! I hope it's regarding the current tour with performances in various shows like DT's own Flight 666.
That would be awesome :metal
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Awesome! :metal
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The only way a live release of The Astonishing makes any kind of sense is a video so all the amazing story visuals can be represented. Having an audio-only release would be a real waste since it's exactly the same as the as the CD.
So here's hoping for an Astonishing LIVE Official Bootleg or an audio release of one of the current shows.
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The Astonishing live wouldn't be like the studio. They have the live sound, and feel. Which is what I like to hear for a live release.
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Ooo...Ytsejam release maybe.
Fingers crossed. :metal
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Christmas present?
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Christmas present?
Oh, I like that!
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They should do a double package.
Disc 1: Best songs off The Astonishing (more digestible to the general audience, people who didn't sit down for 130 minutes for the album won't do it for a live version)
Disc 2: Images and Words 2017
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We already have an I&W Anniversary CD. Does anyone listen to it?
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To be fair, that's a limited release CD, not really available to anyone who wants to legally own it or legally listen to it. Theres just around 5000 people who can legally own it on CD.
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Yawn.
Let me know when there is talk of a live DVD release.
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To be fair, that's a limited release CD, not really available to anyone who wants to legally own it or legally listen to it. Theres just around 5000 people who can legally own it on CD.
Yes, you are right.
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Yawn.
Let me know when there is talk of a live DVD release.
Never, costs too much money for little return :p
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Christmas present?
This. I was hoping for a Christmas gift post-IAWB tour
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Ooo...Ytsejam release maybe.
Here's hoping for The Astonishing.
I remember that Jordan posted about the Budokan show of the IWAB tour was filmed, maybe it has something to do with that? Either way, this is great news :metal
I must have missed that? Do you know where he said that (interview, Facebook post)?
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I really hope it's not TA live.
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I really hope it's TA live as a BR....
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We already have an I&W Anniversary CD. Does anyone listen to it?
Actually, I listen to it REALLY often :) I've had to buy it twice to finally have it!! But anyway a new live release will be great!
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Ooo...Ytsejam release maybe.
Here's hoping for The Astonishing.
I remember that Jordan posted about the Budokan show of the IWAB tour was filmed, maybe it has something to do with that? Either way, this is great news :metal
I must have missed that? Do you know where he said that (interview, Facebook post)?
He posted a pic showing some of the video crew on his Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/jordanrudessofficial/photos/a.10151821986107989.1073741826.8717682988/10155084200912989/?type=3&theater). Petrucci also posted a pic and confirmed it was filmed for a TV broadcast in Japan (https://www.facebook.com/johnpetrucciFB/photos/a.133462500039104.42405.126844294034258/1627934420591897/?type=3&theater).
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A CD of the current tour would be best, since those old songs sound so different now plus with the lowered tuning. Makes it kinda interesting. The Astonishing live would sound basically the same as the CD
This.
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I'm curious how JLB's performance will come out. His singing was really rough this tour.
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Depends on wether they'll pick a single show, or more shows. For example at my show in Milan he completely NAILED Breaking All Illusions, power and enunciation clarity for the whole song.
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Depends on wether they'll pick a single show, or more shows. For example at my show in Milan he completely NAILED Breaking All Illusions, power and enunciation clarity for the whole song.
In Padova instead I think TDEN was awesome. MM was really hyped IMHO
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I think I read that they record every show. If it's going to be a full blown CD release, then it probably makes sense to use the best performance of each song across multiple shows.
Also, since they play to a click now, I'm wondering if it's possible to lift different sections of songs from different shows, and combine them together to get the best result? Interesting, but perhaps too much work to make it happen.
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Also, since they play to a click now, I'm wondering if it's possible to lift different sections of songs from different shows, and combine them together to get the best result? Interesting, but perhaps too much work to make it happen.
Blind Guardian did that for their 2003 "Live" album (Live is actually the name of the album, it won the originality award :D), they pieced together different instruments from different performances. So it could be done, especially if you play to a click.
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That's cool. I suppose you could argue that it's cheating, but it's no different than doing several takes in the studio and putting the best bits together.
Just thinking about vocals in particular - I think I'd prefer this approach to heavy use of autotune or whatever to massage one single performance into shape.
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Maybe Bosk knows something about this release and he's not telling us? He knew about TLF and DLPM for a while before this leg of the tour started :biggrin:
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Last Friday, I sent questions to Jordan and yesterday I added a last minute question about that live release. Let's hope Jordan will answer it.
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JP is on Eddie Trunk right now and he said they did not record any TA shows. He said if you weren't there, you won't get to see it.
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That's too bad. I wish TA was better received, it deserves a lot more credit imo. Brilliant album and the concert was more than worthy of being immortalized on film. :(
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I'm curious how JLB's performance will come out. His singing was really rough this tour.
I fully support any kind of pitch correction, mixing and matching of shows over various nights, or anything else the band needs to do in order for the release to come out great. I'm all for polishing these things up.
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I'm guessing, since they record every show, it'll be something like the Holiday release a couple years ago, where they pulled the best performances of each song from across the tour.
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That's too bad. I wish TA was better received, it deserves a lot more credit imo. Brilliant album and the concert was more than worthy of being immortalized on film. :(
Completely agree, I really wish there was a Bluray for the show.
On the other hand, this may mean that I'm that much closer to a live version of The Bigger Picture, and I'm psyched for that
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JP is on Eddie Trunk right now and he said they did not record any TA shows. He said if you weren't there, you won't get to see it.
Unless you know how to use You Tube. :)
I did see it live in Los Angeles and loved it. I do wish there was a live DVD of it though for souvenir sake. Although to be honest I rarely watch music DVD's anymore except for a few songs here and there.
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I knew they didn't film any TA shows, but they didn't record audio either? Sadly the idea of a blu ray of TA is long gone, but given the timing, I'm guessing maybe another Christmas gift? Maybe some of the earlier I&W shows this year. Sadly knowing this, my shows coming up won't be on this.
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I'm curious how JLB's performance will come out. His singing was really rough this tour.
I fully support any kind of pitch correction, mixing and matching of shows over various nights, or anything else the band needs to do in order for the release to come out great. I'm all for polishing these things up.
Not to open up this can of worms, but why even bother releasing a live album if you have to fix a ton of stuff? A live album should be "live," warts and all.
The studio version is there for those who want everything to sound just perfect. ;)
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I'm okay with some fixes. But based on how I've seen James perform thus far? It would have to take a TON of work to create a whole album of him sounding good. Though I feel like people have drastically lowered their standards with him and would be very happy as long as he hits some high notes and is moderately on key for most of it.
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I'm okay with some fixes. But based on how I've seen James perform thus far? It would have to take a TON of work to create a whole album of him sounding good. Though I feel like people have drastically lowered their standards with him and would be very happy as long as he hits some high notes and is moderately on key for most of it.
Honestly, based on the footage I have seen of this tour, I'd have a tough time even buying a live DVD from this tour. I fear JLB's vocals would make it a one watch and done for me.
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Well that gets me excited that it might be an IAW release
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I'm okay with some fixes. But based on how I've seen James perform thus far? It would have to take a TON of work to create a whole album of him sounding good. Though I feel like people have drastically lowered their standards with him and would be very happy as long as he hits some high notes and is moderately on key for most of it.
Honestly, based on the footage I have seen of this tour, I'd have a tough time even buying a live DVD from this tour. I fear JLB's vocals would make it a one watch and done for me.
Has it been that bad?
I'm going Dec 2.
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We already have an I&W Anniversary CD. Does anyone listen to it?
Yeah, I listened to it last week before the Los Angeles show. I brought it to the M&G to have it signed. One of the band members asked "what's this?" and I told him it was the 10th anniversary CD. Might have been Mangini.
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That's too bad. I wish TA was better received, it deserves a lot more credit imo. Brilliant album and the concert was more than worthy of being immortalized on film. :(
I'm personally a huge fan of The Astonishing, but I've come to terms with the fact that it was very divisive and plenty of people chose not to see it live and therefore wouldn't certainly bother buying a live DVD of it. It was obvious from the start that it would have a smaller appeal - Dream Theater never excludes Eastern Europe on their tours, but on The Astonishing there wasn't a single date in that region. I hate not having seen the show, it's too bad I won't have it on a DVD neither, but it is what it is. It's a fantastic album that didn't get enough love, which isn't uncommon.
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Really wish I could have a BluRay of The Astonishing but as it is I will have to live on the memory if the 2 shows I saw....
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Really wish I could have a BluRay of The Astonishing but as it is I will have to live on the memory if the 2 shows I saw....
My only memory is seeing from the roof the theater, on the leftmost corner that blocked my view of Jordan and almost always Myung.
I did enjoy it but I wish I had been a little less considerate with the money and got a better seat...
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That's too bad. I wish TA was better received, it deserves a lot more credit imo. Brilliant album and the concert was more than worthy of being immortalized on film. :(
I'm personally a huge fan of The Astonishing, but I've come to terms with the fact that it was very divisive and plenty of people chose not to see it live and therefore wouldn't certainly bother buying a live DVD of it. It was obvious from the start that it would have a smaller appeal - Dream Theater never excludes Eastern Europe on their tours, but on The Astonishing there wasn't a single date in that region. I hate not having seen the show, it's too bad I won't have it on a DVD neither, but it is what it is. It's a fantastic album that didn't get enough love, which isn't uncommon.
When TA came out I was really into their 'heavier' sound and I sort of disliked it, now I have become a gigantic fan of this album and I wish I could have got into it earlier to see them perform in Milan last year. :facepalm:
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I'm okay with some fixes. But based on how I've seen James perform thus far? It would have to take a TON of work to create a whole album of him sounding good. Though I feel like people have drastically lowered their standards with him and would be very happy as long as he hits some high notes and is moderately on key for most of it.
Honestly, based on the footage I have seen of this tour, I'd have a tough time even buying a live DVD from this tour. I fear JLB's vocals would make it a one watch and done for me.
Has it been that bad?
I'm going Dec 2.
If you look at YouTube videos, yeah, it's pretty bad. Enunciation was never his forté, but now the higher parts are just "whaaah-ahhhh-gbahhh," plus his timbre gets increasingly unpleasant the higher he goes. He's probably using some technique as to not to strain his voice too much.
Still, when you're there, it's a different kind of experience, so don't let this ruin it for you, you're in for a real treat and an amazing show, with plenty of small surprises (jams, JLB telling stories). I saw them in May, and when you're there and caught up in the moment, it works. I definitely didn't stop and think for one second that JLB hinders the production, but when I watch YouTube videos, it's all I can hear.
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If it's a live version of TA, there's no way I'd buy it. Anything else I will buy on the first day it's released.
There are only a few bands left that I will actually buy their new stuff. DT is one of them.
In 2017, here are the only albums I have actually paid for at a record store (hey . . . I only make 12 bux an hour)
1) Butch Walker - Stay Gold (quite good)
2) Depeche Mode - Spirit (disappointing from one of my all-time favs)
3) Barry Manilow - This is my town (stop laughing - one of the best entertainers and songwriters of all-time)
4) L.A. Guns - The Missing Peace (holy crap this is a good hair band album)
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I guess nobody read my comment about what JP said on Eddie Trunk yesterday.
He said they didn't record any TA shows. Have to assume it's gonna be a live version of the IW&B shows?
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Yea and those shows included a couple TA tracks so I guess we will get those. Would be cool if they included the replacement songs for those as well.
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Yea and those shows included a couple TA tracks so I guess we will get those. Would be cool if they included the replacement songs for those as well.
I am going to see DT in two weeks and I have scrupulously avoided seeing any set lists. I was hoping there wouldn't be any songs from TA in the set list.
I saw them around 20 times in the '90's and this is my first DT show since 1999. I am super excited :-)
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I guess nobody read my comment about what JP said on Eddie Trunk yesterday.
He said they didn't record any TA shows. Have to assume it's gonna be a live version of the IW&B shows?
Maybe he just means they didn't professionally record them. They do record all their shows for archival purposes. That's where a lot of the ytsejam releases come from. So it *could* be The Astonishing live but it would be an official bootleg. That's what some people are theorizing.
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They didn't -film- any of the shows. They still haven't filmed any shows - except the one in Budokan (which wasn't filmed by DT, but an external TV crew for broadcast).
They do record EVERY show they do on multitrack. But it's whats at the soundboard, which does not contain any audience noise (which sounds dry and soulless, unfortunately). Unless they've started miking the audience regularly too. They didn't used to (speaking of experience when we've needed audio for fan club releases).
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My concert video watching time has gone way down so a DT DVD is no longer an automatic purchase. I am not sure an Astonishing show would have been an automatic purchase anyway, even though I loved the show I went to. I am more intrigued by a I&MAB (how to we acronymize that?) show
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I think the problem is many of us are already thinking of a video release, but Chycki only said he was mixing a DT live album. What if it's audio only? That way, it could either be something from this tour or from the TA tour... or even from the 30th anniversary european tour ;D
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I guess it's possible it could be something else. Maybe it's a compilation of a bunch of different tracks across multiple past tours.
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Oops, replied before seeing an entire page of additional replies.
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That seems like a somewhat bizarre attitude. This was JP's masterpiece, and he says they didn't record a single performance of it?
Sadly, many fans didn't lke TA too much, and live albums have a lower demand than studio albums, so that's probably a big reason why. Too bad, because I love TA and was never able to see it live :'(
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Yeah, but if I wrote a 2-CD concept album and went on tour with my band and played the whole thing every night, I sure as hell would make sure I recorded it at least once. I'm not even talking about whether or not it would make a good release for a live album; I would want a recording of the band performing it, for posterity.
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JP is on Eddie Trunk right now and he said they did not record any TA shows. He said if you weren't there, you won't get to see it.
awesome news for those us who live in a city they didnt come to.
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I'm curious how JLB's performance will come out. His singing was really rough this tour.
I fully support any kind of pitch correction, mixing and matching of shows over various nights, or anything else the band needs to do in order for the release to come out great. I'm all for polishing these things up.
Not to open up this can of worms, but why even bother releasing a live album if you have to fix a ton of stuff? A live album should be "live," warts and all.
The studio version is there for those who want everything to sound just perfect. ;)
Could not disagree more. When you are at the concert and caught up in the moment you are less likely to notice mistakes. At home in your living room watching a DVD you cant miss them. So many potentially incredible live DT performances have been ruined by James' off key caterwauling. Really, he has laid waste to some of the most epic performances in all of rock. Even if 95% of the performance is perfect, its that 5% that ruins it. WHY NOT FIX THE 5% IT AND LET US ENJOY THE REST??! I do not want to listen to the most technically proficient band ever to hear a bunch of mistakes. And this goes back to Live Scenes from NY, it is not a new thing. I really think the rest of the band is just too nice to do what needs to be done.
And...I love the Astonishing too. Nothing wrong with James there.
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Yeah, but if I wrote a 2-CD concept album and went on tour with my band and played the whole thing every night, I sure as hell would make sure I recorded it at least once. I'm not even talking about whether or not it would make a good release for a live album; I would want a recording of the band performing it, for posterity.
Plus the fans weren't allowed to film songs themselves either
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Anyway, to those overly worried about James - check out this awesome rendition of Breaking All Illusions from my show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZksIow4BJ0
I don't think that's the only time he ever got a song so good, so if they're recording more shows, I think you can have top notch performances from him even without dubbing the shyt ouf ot it.
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Is it just me or is James in especially great shape when the band plays Italy? For some reason, the best clips are always from Milan, Rome or something. ;D
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Yeah, but if I wrote a 2-CD concept album and went on tour with my band and played the whole thing every night, I sure as hell would make sure I recorded it at least once. I'm not even talking about whether or not it would make a good release for a live album; I would want a recording of the band performing it, for posterity.
For the record, they actually record every show they play.
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But I can't believe they wouldn't have filmed the production. Even for themselves. That literally makes no sense.
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Anyway, to those overly worried about James - check out this awesome rendition of Breaking All Illusions from my show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZksIow4BJ0
I don't think that's the only time he ever got a song so good, so if they're recording more shows, I think you can have top notch performances from him even without dubbing the shyt ouf ot it.
That was one of the highlights at my show too. I mentioned some songs he noticably struggled. Others he nailed. This one he nailed. But I can't believe they wouldn't have filmed the production. Even for themselves. That literally makes no sense.
That costs a lot of money. Maybe they set up a small camera for themselves but a fully recorded/filmed show is expensive.
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Yeah, but if I wrote a 2-CD concept album and went on tour with my band and played the whole thing every night, I sure as hell would make sure I recorded it at least once. I'm not even talking about whether or not it would make a good release for a live album; I would want a recording of the band performing it, for posterity.
For the record, they actually record every show they play.
That's what I thought. I didn't listen to the Eddie Trunk thing, but supposedly JP said they didn't record any TA Live shows. Maybe he meant "other than the regular recording of every show we do anyway".
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They specifically talked about filming - not generic recording.
And when they don't have video screens that show the actual band members, they dont have any video recording either. And they havent had band members on screen for TA or IAWAB.
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They specifically talked about filming - not generic recording.
And when they don't have video screens that show the actual band members, they dont have any video recording either. And they havent had band members on screen for TA or IAWAB.
True... but for TA I would settle with just the screens if nothing else exists.
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Anyway, to those overly worried about James - check out this awesome rendition of Breaking All Illusions from my show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZksIow4BJ0
I don't think that's the only time he ever got a song so good, so if they're recording more shows, I think you can have top notch performances from him even without dubbing the shyt ouf ot it.
That was excellent. I hope they got that one recorded!
Is it just me or does it seems a little faster than the original?
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Jordan answered that question: "Richard Chycki confirmed he was working on a new DT live album: can you tell us which tour it will be?”
You want to know the answer? Stay tuned for Your Majesty's exclusive interview to be released by the end of the week (THAT is a great teaser) :lol :lol
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:getoffmylawn:
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Jordan answered that question: "Richard Chycki confirmed he was working on a new DT live album: can you tell us which tour it will be?”
You want to know the answer? Stay tuned for Your Majesty's exclusive interview to be released by the end of the week (THAT is a great teaser) :lol :lol
:rollin it's gonna be a long week.
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Impressive though the Astonishing shows were, the use of click-track and pre-recorded elements meant that the live shows weren't THAT different from the album version - there's little purpose in releasing something that's basically the same as the album with some crowd noise on it. Perhaps if TA had been better received by the fanbase we'd have got a DVD of the tour, but it wasn't, so...
On the other hand, the IW&B shows were just about the best I've seen the band play for many a year. I want a DVD/CD of this.
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Jordan answered that question: "Richard Chycki confirmed he was working on a new DT live album: can you tell us which tour it will be?”
You want to know the answer? Stay tuned for Your Majesty's exclusive interview to be released by the end of the week (THAT is a great teaser) :lol :lol
So... until this saturday, right? No pressure!😉
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The interview is online!
blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/11/09/interview-in-english-jordan-rudess-2/
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Now it seems like a roadrunner release or a xmas surprise.
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Impressive though the Astonishing shows were, the use of click-track and pre-recorded elements meant that the live shows weren't THAT different from the album version - there's little purpose in releasing something that's basically the same as the album with some crowd noise on it. Perhaps if TA had been better received by the fanbase we'd have got a DVD of the tour, but it wasn't, so...
Except you know, they were playing it live...
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They were playing it live when they recorded it as well, the recordings didn't come from a different plane of existence
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The interview is online!
blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/11/09/interview-in-english-jordan-rudess-2/
I actually expected Jordan to answer something like that, but I got excited anyway :metal
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They were playing it live when they recorded it as well, the recordings didn't come from a different plane of existence
:lol
You're right. Why bother going to concerts anyway?
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Often the live performance of a song, or even an entire album, gains something it didn't have on the studio recording. The solos are different, or they do something with the arrangement, or just the performance itself seems more energized and to take things to the next level.
And sometimes the live peformance sounds basically like the studio recording. Exact same tempo and backing tracks, courtesy of click track technology. Because it's still new material, the arrangement and/or solos haven't drifted much from what's on the album, if at all. Stuff like that.
Going to a concert is an event, and it's about much more than just the band playing, although obviously that's the main thing. But listening to a live recording that sounds 95% identical to the studio version isn't a big draw for a most people.
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Often the live performance of a song, or even an entire album, gains something it didn't have on the studio recording. The solos are different, or they do something with the arrangement, or just the performance itself seems more energized and to take things to the next level.
And sometimes the live peformance sounds basically like the studio recording. Exact same tempo and backing tracks, courtesy of click track technology. Because it's still new material, the arrangement and/or solos haven't drifted much from what's on the album, if at all. Stuff like that.
Going to a concert is an event, and it's about much more than just the band playing, although obviously that's the main thing. But listening to a live recording that sounds 95% identical to the studio version isn't a big draw for a most people.
Oh I get all that, and I don't really disagree. It's just kinda weird, with most bands fans go to the show and if the take away is "wow, that sounded like the album!" that's usually considered a good thing. Around here it gets a knock for some reason.
Anywho, I guess I'm in the minority that would LOVE to see a TA live release regardless of whether they played to a click or not, regardless of whether or not they kept arrangements the same, or regardless of whether or not they looped some stuff in.
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Are you talking about a live album, or a concert video? To me, they're pretty different.
A good concert video (DVD, Blu-ray, whatever) almost makes you feel like you're there at the concert. The stage, the stuff on the screens, and of course watching the guys actually playing the music.
But a live audio recording that's 95% the same as the studio album, I have more trouble getting excited about. Since apparently they're not going to release a concert video, I'm curious as to what it is about the live album that makes you want it so badly. Not trying to be a dick; really trying to understand. I have every Dream Theater official release, including all the live albums, and they're great, but sometimes I find myself thinking I could/should just be listening to the album versions of songs.
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When it comes to live albums, I love to see the videos, but I almost never listen to the audio versions only. I'm so familiar with the studio versions that I usually don't care too much for the audio only versions of live albums.
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Are you talking about a live album, or a concert video? To me, they're pretty different.
A good concert video (DVD, Blu-ray, whatever) almost makes you feel like you're there at the concert. The stage, the stuff on the screens, and of course watching the guys actually playing the music.
But a live audio recording that's 95% the same as the studio album, I have more trouble getting excited about. Since apparently they're not going to release a concert video, I'm curious as to what it is about the live album that makes you want it so badly. Not trying to be a dick; really trying to understand. I have every Dream Theater official release, including all the live albums, and they're great, but sometimes I find myself thinking I could/should just be listening to the album versions of songs.
I mostly agree. The only times I really like the live version of a song that is identical to the studio is if the studio has a meh mix and the live is better. I prefer the live versions of the ADTOE songs simply because the drums sound better.
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I loved hearing JP and MP doing the harmonies, and Jordan filling in for missing rhythm guitar during solos with a keyboard patch. It was so cool hearing the band as they really are; a one-guitar, 5 piece band. That was what was so cool about a live album, that you didn't get in the album versions
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I loved hearing JP and MP doing the harmonies, and Jordan filling in for missing rhythm guitar during solos with a keyboard patch. It was so cool hearing the band as they really are; a one-guitar, 5 piece band. That was what was so cool about a live album, that you didn't get in the album versions
This
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When it comes to live albums, I love to see the videos, but I almost never listen to the audio versions only. I'm so familiar with the studio versions that I usually don't care too much for the audio only versions of live albums,
Totally agree. I don't care for live albums but I enjoy live videos. I want to see the band perform, not just hear them.
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Are you talking about a live album, or a concert video? To me, they're pretty different.
A good concert video (DVD, Blu-ray, whatever) almost makes you feel like you're there at the concert. The stage, the stuff on the screens, and of course watching the guys actually playing the music.
But a live audio recording that's 95% the same as the studio album, I have more trouble getting excited about. Since apparently they're not going to release a concert video, I'm curious as to what it is about the live album that makes you want it so badly. Not trying to be a dick; really trying to understand. I have every Dream Theater official release, including all the live albums, and they're great, but sometimes I find myself thinking I could/should just be listening to the album versions of songs.
Oh, I was talking about a concert video, sorry for the miscommunication! That said - I'd still buy a live CD version of TA though because I really like that album a lot so having another version of it performed live would be cool to me.
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They were playing it live when they recorded it as well, the recordings didn't come from a different plane of existence
Literalist FTW.
You're right. Why bother going to concerts anyway?
Rebutt-owned.
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I loved hearing JP and MP doing the harmonies, and Jordan filling in for missing rhythm guitar during solos with a keyboard patch. It was so cool hearing the band as they really are; a one-guitar, 5 piece band. That was what was so cool about a live album, that you didn't get in the album versions
Now that's cool. That's what I'm talking about, how the live version isn't just the studio version being played live. Compromises that have to be made, parts that are covered differently. The studio version has tons of overdubs; can you play it live and make it sound good?
To me, live recordings and studio recordings are almost two different media. Studio is about making it all sound as good as you can, which is possible because everything's controlled and you have unlimited takes, so there's no excuse for the studio version not being perfect (in theory anyway).
Live is all about what you can do in real time. I suppose that alone is why it's worth it to check out the live versions of things, and why I still do. Live albums used to completely transcend the studio albums, then sometime in the 90's or so, everybody started playing to a click, and now live albums are considerably less adventurous. I understand that bands want to have more control over things, especially in a setting where it's practically a given that something unexpected will go wrong, but to me that's part of the excitement. It's just you, your instruments, and your audience. Let's see what you've got.
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Don't get why many people here see playing with a click track as bad, it actually helps a lot, for many things.
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That's true, but it also locks the entire performance into a preset tempo. To many musicians, this is restrictive. The freedom to vary the tempo according to mood and feel of the room is an inalienable right of performance.
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That's true, but it also locks the entire performance into a preset tempo. To many musicians, this is restrictive. The freedom to vary the tempo according to mood and feel of the room is an inalienable right of performance.
I think this is very valid too. Still, guys like Haken and Steven Wilson use click tracks live and I’ve never seen anyone complain about them, only DT (not trying to say you’re complaining about it, Orbert).
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There's no question that there are upsides to playing with a click. Why wouldn't you want the band to have something that keeps everyone together? Why wouldn't you want something that defines the tempo, so it's not up to how drunk or high the drummer is when he clicks his sticks four times? And of course today's shows have graphics on the screens and other presentation elements that need to be timed to the music, and I don't know, but I would bet money that there are sophisticated multimedia systems that can coordinate all of this, all synched to the click, marketed to touring bands and others. Great stuff.
But the old fogey in me points out that bands were playing together live for thousands of years before there were click tracks. We did this by listening to each other and paying attention to each other. And half the fun of a live performance is that you can do that one section as fast or slow as you want, and we do fuck around with each other, actually challenge each other to keep up, maybe go around one more time with the solos, and none of that is scripted. It has to be in the moment. You can't do that in today's world.
I've been playing live music a long time, longer than most posters here on DTF have been alive, and definitely longer than click tracks have been universal. I suppose that makes me a purist, and purists tend to get a lot of shit about stuff like this. Dream Theater is an absolutely amazing band. To be able to play those songs live, perfectly (or near perfectly) is something I'll never be able to do. But there's a part of me that knows that one reason they can do it is because of the click, and there's a tiny part of me (the purist) that mumbles "Yeah, but that's cheating." I'm not complaining that they use a click, but it adds a homogeneity to everything, it takes just a little bit of the "live" out of the live performance.
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...and I don't know, but I would bet money that there are sophisticated multimedia systems that can coordinate all of this, all synched to the click, marketed to touring bands and others.
Correct. It automates a lot of the lighting and video, which also enables bands to have more complex presentations than would be possible with one or two guys at the sound booth manually doing everything.
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Makes sense. There's definitely a niche for it.
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Well Orbert, all I can say is that I totally see your point.
For me it depends on the kind of show, a small band playing rock n' roll in a pub can well do away without a click, but bigger productions with screens and videos and lights coordinated almost require a click by now.
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Dream Theater is an absolutely amazing band. To be able to play those songs live, perfectly (or near perfectly) is something I'll never be able to do. But there's a part of me that knows that one reason they can do it is because of the click, and there's a tiny part of me (the purist) that mumbles "Yeah, but that's cheating." I'm not complaining that they use a click, but it adds a homogeneity to everything, it takes just a little bit of the "live" out of the live performance.
Huh? I'd wager playing those complex sections to a click is more difficult than playing without a click.
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For me the click puts more pressure on possible screwups. How do you come back from a note played too fast or too slow with a click? ok, the click helps you being in time in the first place, but if for whatever reason you screw up isn't it harder to readjust to the click? it's like a train that can't be stopped.
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The click doesn't bother me. I suppose it is an advantage when it comes to difficult sections, that it holds the tempo steady and stops those really technical bits from becoming impossible, if the whole song was to go at a quicker than normal tempo.
I wouldn't say it's cheating though. The guys still have to play those bits at album tempo and get them as good as they can. I'd say some of those sections would be close to their own technical limits of ability (and way beyond mine), so to attempt to do them any quicker would be suicide.
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For me the click puts more pressure on possible screwups. How do you come back from a note played too fast or too slow with a click? ok, the click helps you being in time in the first place, but if for whatever reason you screw up isn't it harder to readjust to the click? it's like a train that can't be stopped.
Exactly, in my experience, it takes a lot of skill to play to a click. I've played with a ton of guys who were "good" players, especially drummers, then the moment you turn a click on they fall apart.
The click doesn't bother me. I suppose it is an advantage when it comes to difficult sections, that it holds the tempo steady and stops those really technical bits from becoming impossible, if the whole song was to go at a quicker than normal tempo.
I wouldn't say it's cheating though. The guys still have to play those bits at album tempo and get them as good as they can. I'd say some of those sections would be close to their own technical limits of ability (and way beyond mine), so to attempt to do them any quicker would be suicide.
A common problem DT had previously was MP pushing the tempo in technically difficult sections (see the TGP intro runs) so a click definitely helps the other players, mainly JP and JR in that regard, but like MirrorMask just said - playing to a click starts a freight train moving and it's hard to re-calibrate if you fall off.
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I remember at a guitar clinic with JP years ago when the topic came up on whether he sweep picks the intro solo to the glass prison or if he alternate picks it. His response was that it depended on MP, if the tempo is fast then JP finds it easier to sweep pick the intro. I guess with a click it’s easier to not have to push yourself even further from the excitement of the live environment.
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The Astonishing live wouldn't be like the studio. They have the live sound, and feel. Which is what I like to hear for a live release.
Not to mention that mind numbing guitar solo at the end of A New Beginning
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JP is on Eddie Trunk right now and he said they did not record any TA shows. He said if you weren't there, you won't get to see it.
But we could hear it ;)
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The Astonishing live wouldn't be like the studio. They have the live sound, and feel. Which is what I like to hear for a live release.
Not to mention that mind numbing guitar solo at the end of A New Beginning
That was the highlight of the TA shows.
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JP is on Eddie Trunk right now and he said they did not record any TA shows. He said if you weren't there, you won't get to see it.
Don't get this mindset at all.
This whole album needs a documentary about the decision making process.
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I guess nobody read my comment about what JP said on Eddie Trunk yesterday.
He said they didn't record any TA shows. Have to assume it's gonna be a live version of the IW&B shows?
Don't usually listen to Eddie Trunk but I'm going to try and find this online.
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James is live on his FB page right now with his son Chance and he just confirmed the show Chycki was mixing is the Budokan show for a broadcast in Japan. He didn’t say anything about how (or if) it’s going to be released.
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James is live on his FB page right now with his son Chance and he just confirmed the show Chycki was mixing is the Budokan show for a broadcast in Japan. He didn’t say anything about how (or if) it’s going to be released.
If it will be broadcasted then I am sure it will end up on youtube at least. Would be nice to get that on DVD though.
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James is live on his FB page right now with his son Chance and he just confirmed the show Chycki was mixing is the Budokan show for a broadcast in Japan. He didn’t say anything about how (or if) it’s going to be released.
If it will be broadcasted then I am sure it will end up on youtube at least. Would be nice to get that on DVD though.
Hope so. The last show they recorded for broadcast in Japan was Loud Park 2014 and, while it was on youtube for a while, it got taken down.
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Interesting.
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The freedom to vary the tempo according to mood and feel of the room is an inalienable right of performance.
Lawyer’d :biggrin:
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They should do a double package.
Disc 1: Best songs off The Astonishing (more digestible to the general audience, people who didn't sit down for 130 minutes for the album won't do it for a live version)
Disc 2: Images and Words 2017
Wow, what an excellent idea. A "Best Of...." for the recent tours. I would love that!
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I doubt we'll get anything from The Astonishing. It seems that the band and the management are happy to move on from it all together. The fact that they removed the three TA songs from the North American leg of this tour suggests just that. I hope I'm wrong!
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(https://bravewords.com/medias-static/BackToBudokan.jpg)
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:tup
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Sorry for the dumb question - is that fan art or official?
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This news is on Bravewords, right?
It's still not clear if this will be also a DVD release... let's hope for it!
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This news is on Bravewords, right?
It's still not clear if this will be also a DVD release... let's hope for it!
Yes, Bravewords
https://bravewords.com/news/dream-theater-back-to-budokan-2017-mixed-by-producer-richard-chycki-artwork-and-tracklist-revealed
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Yay then!
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They say the tracklist was revealed, but they just copied the songs from setlist.fm :lol
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Sorry for the dumb question - is that fan art or official?
Sorry, I was posting while running out the door to bring my kids to school. I thought I posted the link.
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It's a TV release, there's been no confirmation for tracklist or release on other platforms.
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The article lists 3 discs in the tracklist.
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The article lists 3 discs in the tracklist.
Set 1
Set 2
encore?
They could fit it all in two discs, but it's kinda weird to have, say, Pull Me Under and Another Day at the end of disc 1 after Breaking All Illusions.
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Wow, I hope this is a DVD that would be great.
Even if it's just a CD, it'll still be cool to have this tour documented like that.
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https://bravewords.com/news/dream-theater-back-to-budokan-2017-mixed-by-producer-richard-chycki-artwork-and-tracklist-revealed
"Mixed Dream Theater’s Budokan live show celebrating Images, Words & Beyond for broadcast by wowow."
The show took place on September 11th, 2017 at the Budokan in Tokyo, Japan.The tracklist for the package is available below. More details will be revealed soon
Disc 1
"Opening (The Colonel)"
"The Dark Eternal Night"
"The Bigger Picture"
"Hell's Kitchen"
"The Gift of Music"
"Our New World"
"Portrait of Tracy" (John Myung solo)
"As I Am"
"Breaking All Illusions"
Disc 2
"Pull Me Under"
"Another Day"
"Take the Time" (extended outro with John Petrucci guitar solo)
"Surrounded"
"Metropolis Pt. 1" (with Mike Mangini drum solo)
"Under a Glass Moon" 08.
"Wait for Sleep" (with extended keyboard intro)
"Learning to Live"
Disc 3
"A Change of Seasons"
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This could also be part of a Japan-only release (aside from the confirmed TV transmission). King Crimson just released a Live in Vienna live album for Japan only.
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This could also be part of a Japan-only release (aside from the confirmed TV transmission). King Crimson just released a Live in Vienna live album for Japan only.
Why would a band do this?
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Set list looks cool, except for Dark Eternal Crap.
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Set list looks cool, except for Dark Eternal Crap.
I actually like TDEN but this made me lol
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This could also be part of a Japan-only release (aside from the confirmed TV transmission). King Crimson just released a Live in Vienna live album for Japan only.
Why would a band do this?
Sometimes promoters and labels push the artist to do this. That's why you get bonus tracks in a lot of the artists' Japanese releases so they encourage sales within the country. King Crimson just released a bunch of the Collector's Club releases to the Japanese markets as well. I think they (King Crimson) will be touring Japan soon since they are aggressively releasing previous albums over there. And DT just toured there as well and I'm pretty sure the reception was overwhelming.
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I kind of feel region only releases make no sense in the digital world. I'd buy this if I could, but if they only release it in Asia, well, I am sure I'll find a way to be able to listen.
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Also, Chycki said it's for a TV stream in Japan, he didn't say anything about it going to be released in some way or anything like that. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
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Also, Chycki said it's for a TV stream in Japan, he didn't say anything about it going to be released in some way or anything like that. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Wish that somebody can record it, just like animes.
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Also, Chycki said it's for a TV stream in Japan, he didn't say anything about it going to be released in some way or anything like that. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
But this wouldn't be atypical? I mean, if it's only for a TV stream, it makes sense to pay a well known producer (in this case, the band's "producer") to mix it?
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While that cover art could be the official cover release, until it's posted on DT's official site, I find that highly suspect. The fact that it includes text that says "Original Master Stereo IEM Matrix Recording" sounds like something you'd expect on some bootleg cover art, not an official release. Why would the band use a matrix of IEM (inner ear monitor) sources as opposed to the original multi-track recordings to do a proper mix? And the fact that BW also included audience shot footage posted on YouTube gives me added reason that this is just a Blabbermouth-style post.
edit: Forgot to mention, a bootleg of one (or more) IEM source of this particular show is already circulating in trading circles, so it's even more reason to expect that the cover art BW posted is not official. Nevermind the fact that it's almost a given that the intro tape (which DT did not write/record) would not be included in the official release either.
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And the fact that BW also included audience shot footage posted on YouTube gives me added reason that this is just a Blabbermouth-style post.
I clicked it totally expecting a snippet of the broadcast.
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Nevermind the fact that it's almost a given that the intro tape (which DT did not write/record) would not be included in the official release either.
The tracklist is a blatant copy and paste from Setlist.fm
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The article lists 3 discs in the tracklist.
The article does not site any source for where it got the tracklist - and there's been no confirmation or press release that states that this will be anything other than the Wowow TV airing.
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Memory may be failing but I thought Bosk had spoken with JP and JP told him this would not be happening for DVD release.
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Not this specifically, no. Last time I spoke to him about a live release was for The Astonishing, and he said that was going to be very unlikely.
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It really seems unlikely for an official release, but if they are putting it on TV, I'm sure it will end up on youtube and hopefully maybe as an official bootleg since this sounds more like something along that then an official release.
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I can't believe they are not putting out some kind of live release being that there is this big of a gap between albums. I know it's risky and costly to especially make a concert dvd, but I would hope they have enough faith in their fan base to go for it. They've skipped alot of places on their last two tours and I'm sure there's plenty of people who would like to see these shows on film.
The Astonishing was such a cool production with the stage and lighting, such a shame that slipped away (even though I can kind of see why from a business standpoint), but damn!
An audio version of the last two tours would be a nice welcome if anything..
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Why would a band do this?
Back in the day CDs would have bonus tracks specific to a region, usually Japan, cuz people could by the "regular" North American CD for WAY cheaper so in order to entice them to buy it locally they'd put these on for an incentive... and then us in NA would pay insane money for the "import" with the rare track.
But that was then, now I with downloading/streaming I don't see the point of making things exclusive to certain regions so TL;DR I dunno why bands would do this today.
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They haven't released a live CD since Score. The recent live DVDs have only had the CD available as part of deluxe editions. I'm not that interested in DVDs, as I rarely have time to watch them, but love CD versions because I can put them in my CD rack and see all the spines lined up. I'm old school, I like that.
So yes, a proper live CD release of IW&B would be more than welcome.
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They haven't released a live CD since Score. The recent live DVDs have only had the CD available as part of deluxe editions. I'm not that interested in DVDs, as I rarely have time to watch them, but love CD versions because I can put them in my CD rack and see all the spines lined up. I'm old school, I like that.
So yes, a proper live CD release of IW&B would be more than welcome.
I'm the opposite. I still buy CDs for bands I truly enjoy, but I don't even end up taking the plastic off. I end up just using Spotify in the car for convenience. DVD/Blu rays though.. those I love. They're great to have on in the background. I always have concerts playing when I'm working at my workbench, and pausing to watch a guitar solo or something is a joy. At least for me.
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Spotify in the car? I'm so old.
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I prefer live dvd's as well. Its great to kick back with a friend and a few beers and enjoy a good concert right in your living room. With modern HD tv's and a good stereo sound system, it's the next best thing to actually being at the concert. Especially if the show is done right. The new David Gilmour Live at Pompeii is a great example.. :hefdaddy
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(https://bravewords.com/medias-static/BackToBudokan.jpg)
Love that pic. Would totally be okay if this went either official release or official bootleg. I would just hope that they include the songs not played at Budokan as bonus tracks after ACOS (To Live Forever, Don't Look Past Me, The Spirit Carries On, and A Life Left Behind). I can never get enough live versions of TLF.
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Would totally be okay if this went either official release or official bootleg. I would just hope that they include the songs not played at Budokan as bonus tracks after ACOS (To Live Forever, Don't Look Past Me, The Spirit Carries On, and A Life Left Behind). I can never get enough live versions of TLF.
We can keep dreaming about getting such a package
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Would totally be okay if this went either official release or official bootleg. I would just hope that they include the songs not played at Budokan as bonus tracks after ACOS (To Live Forever, Don't Look Past Me, The Spirit Carries On, and A Life Left Behind). I can never get enough live versions of TLF.
We can keep dreaming about getting such a package
While we're dreaming, might as well give us an Astonishing Live 2016 official boot as well! :metal
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If you are curious about the quality of DT’s performance on this show, search on google for “ultimate bootleg experience dream theater 2017-09-11 Tokyo” (sorry, I couldn’t paste the direct link), and you'll have a very good bootleg (one of the best to hear Mangini’s drums AND cymbals IMO). Although this tour had been very hard for James, I think this was a relatively good show for him.
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If you are curious about the quality of DT’s performance on this show, search on google for “ultimate bootleg experience dream theater 2017-09-11 Tokyo” (sorry, I couldn’t paste the direct link), and you'll have a very good bootleg (one of the best to hear Mangini’s drums AND cymbals IMO). Although this tour had been very hard for James, I think this was a relatively good show for him.
Just googled it and the image that was posted here is from that bootleg, so it's fan made.
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You're right, I forgot to mention that :tup
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That fan art is better than anything Hugh Syme ever did for them.
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I dunno, the girl and heart look pretty bad
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The image itself is not fan made :P
(https://dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/DT.jpg)
And judging by some of the photoshopiness of some elements in this image, I wouldn't be surprised if its a Hugh Syme image ;)
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Now that I notice it, it's pretty bad that the burning heart is not by itself, but comes with the black background it originally had :D
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what about the texture of the 25 which clearly is a flat image, not projected onto a 3d object?
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I don't believe it is too expensive for them to record a live video at all. If small local artists can make a half decent looking dvd/blu ray these days (also, see Mike Portnoy's projects, most of which have a good live recording as well), so can DT. Hell, if you really want to go on a low ass budget, you can go with a bunch of gopro cameras, like Gentle Storm once did for promotional purposes.
It is more a matter of wanting to do it and the planning involved. And there is likely some/a lot of music rights related stuff in play if they want a release, because I think Roadrunner probably isn't too interested in making a big release on their label. So it obviously does take effort and time and by extent money, but in concept a ytskejam esque "bootleg" dvd in this day and age could be viable.
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Has this been broadcast in Japan yet?
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And there is likely some/a lot of music rights related stuff in play if they want a release
Thankfully this is actually very easy. Since DT are members of rights organizations (BMI and ASCAP, depending on the band member) - any song they've released is registered to BMI and ASCAP. That means; anyone can record and release a song as long as they pay the rights holders (in this case BMI and ASCAP) the royaltees for it. So DT doesnt strictly have to deal with roadrunner at all regarding RIGHTS - but theres a record deal that may restrict certain elements of this though (for instance giving Roadrunner the right to control which labels DT can otherwise appear on)...
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Just watched the Milan video from BAI. WOW LaBrie was very good that night!! But also WOW, that crowd is lame.
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Just watched the Milan video from BAI. WOW LaBrie was very good that night!! But also WOW, that crowd is lame.
There's only so much people can do when forced to sit, even in the parterre!
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Just watched the Milan video from BAI. WOW LaBrie was very good that night!! But also WOW, that crowd is lame.
There's only so much people can do when forced to sit, even in the parterre!
Oh, just saw that. Well, I guess we're back on the great debate of standing/sitting :D sorry, it was right there
I gotta say, as much as I liked the sitting-in-theaters-concept of The Astonishing tour, the right feeling just doesn't come up at this kind of shows (I mean the I&W tour, not the TA tour) if you HAVE to sit. I understand that at some point in your life you don't wanna stand 3 hours in a dark hall that smells like sweat at 38°C. I guess the best solution would be a standing area and some seats on the balcony (which has been mentioned).
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I saw a bluray for sale on a Dutch site (marktplaats) today.
It stated that this show was pro-shot.
Unfortunately the bluray was already sold.
I assume this means that the show has been broadcast already.
I'd love to be able to watch this somehow.
If anyone has a link, please let me know! :)
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https://www.wowow.co.jp/detail/111803/001 From what I can gather, it will air January 28th.
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https://www.wowow.co.jp/detail/111803/001 From what I can gather, it will air January 28th.
I sent a message to the seller.
He said it was pro-shot so I'm curious as to how the makers of that bluray got a hold of that footage before being aired.
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Let’s hope for a official BR version of it. I didn’t transalate the wowow site, but it seems that the entire show will be broadcasted, right?
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I saw a bluray for sale on a Dutch site (marktplaats) today.
It stated that this show was pro-shot.
Unfortunately the bluray was already sold.
I assume this means that the show has been broadcast already.
I'd love to be able to watch this somehow.
If anyone has a link, please let me know! :)
Pro-shot doesn't mean it's direct from the feed. It could, but I highly doubt it. It could be that the bootlegger got a good seat and filmed it, or got footage from multiple cameras (not from the official cameramen). I searched on Youtube for Budokan 2017 footage and there's a few good vids out there.
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It's a pro-shot, and damn good. While there hasn't been any word about an actual video release of the show, I can verify that the broadcast is top notch with multiple camera angles, split screens, all the groovy bells and whistles you would expect from a DT DVD/Blu release.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=17hD2KQwUAEmJKw5YfhyXNKdhvIxUaiS6
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tBgGf3JpuU4L0VAKLY6uiwAtZkou_yNi
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hiBCTUfgLdWIKypqEGaSFzhR3pj89DYo
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_hoT13oDVcCxIG0TULq2u5WW6h26DpOL
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Hey, Wey, long time no see. How is it going?
Nice photos! Thanks for that! And yes, it's definitely pro work.
B.Lee
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It's a pro-shot, and damn good. While there hasn't been any word about an actual video release of the show, I can verify that the broadcast is top notch with multiple camera angles, split screens, all the groovy bells and whistles you would expect from a DT DVD/Blu release.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=17hD2KQwUAEmJKw5YfhyXNKdhvIxUaiS6
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tBgGf3JpuU4L0VAKLY6uiwAtZkou_yNi
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hiBCTUfgLdWIKypqEGaSFzhR3pj89DYo
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_hoT13oDVcCxIG0TULq2u5WW6h26DpOL
Wow, those are great!
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Looks like a must-own then... Now, where to get it...
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Yes, a must-have. Those pictures are great!
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It's a pro-shot, and damn good. While there hasn't been any word about an actual video release of the show, I can verify that the broadcast is top notch with multiple camera angles, split screens, all the groovy bells and whistles you would expect from a DT DVD/Blu release.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=17hD2KQwUAEmJKw5YfhyXNKdhvIxUaiS6
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tBgGf3JpuU4L0VAKLY6uiwAtZkou_yNi
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hiBCTUfgLdWIKypqEGaSFzhR3pj89DYo
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_hoT13oDVcCxIG0TULq2u5WW6h26DpOL
I need this!
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Well like I said, I don't know if there is going to be an official release of the video, but I would recommend waiting to see what the band has up their sleeve. If they only release a CD only version I'm sure at some point the video broadcast will make it to some of the bootleg sites.
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Christmas present?
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It's a pro-shot, and damn good. While there hasn't been any word about an actual video release of the show, I can verify that the broadcast is top notch with multiple camera angles, split screens, all the groovy bells and whistles you would expect from a DT DVD/Blu release.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=17hD2KQwUAEmJKw5YfhyXNKdhvIxUaiS6
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tBgGf3JpuU4L0VAKLY6uiwAtZkou_yNi
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hiBCTUfgLdWIKypqEGaSFzhR3pj89DYo
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_hoT13oDVcCxIG0TULq2u5WW6h26DpOL
Holy crap, want
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Yea seriously, want this badly
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It makes all the sense in the world to release this at some point, given DT is not going to be active during most of 2018. This is a cool way to have something out while they start preparing their next studio album.
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Jugdging by the look of the photos, they went with the 60fps look again :-\ . Would've been cool if they went to a simmilar image's treatment as the original LAB look (24fps I believe). Anyways, looking forward to see the DVD.
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It makes all the sense in the world to release this at some point, given DT is not going to be active during most of 2018. This is a cool way to have something out while they start preparing their next studio album.
Absolutely!
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It's a pro-shot, and damn good. While there hasn't been any word about an actual video release of the show, I can verify that the broadcast is top notch with multiple camera angles, split screens, all the groovy bells and whistles you would expect from a DT DVD/Blu release.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=17hD2KQwUAEmJKw5YfhyXNKdhvIxUaiS6
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tBgGf3JpuU4L0VAKLY6uiwAtZkou_yNi
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hiBCTUfgLdWIKypqEGaSFzhR3pj89DYo
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_hoT13oDVcCxIG0TULq2u5WW6h26DpOL
This looks great. I would buy a Blu-Ray of this in a heart beat.
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I watched this show yesterday.
A friend had the imported bluray.
The video quality is very good indeed and the splitscreen shots are very cool.
I could definitely tell that the audio was professionally mixed.
It sounds alright but I'm not a fan of some of the choices, just as with Breaking The Fourth Wall.
The snare is quite loud and because of (bus) compression the mix seems over compressed sometimes.
I guess it has good energy but I'm just not a fan of the mixing style of Richard.
I could definitely tell that James was struggling a bit here and there, it wasn't too bad though.
It was a good watch so I can't wait to buy it once it comes out for real.
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When will it be released on Blu Ray man I want to see it
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When will it be released on Blu Ray man I want to see it
I wanted to see what "the hype is all about", but the band hasn't made any hype about a blu-ray release of this show. We may not get a dvd at all..... I hope I'm wrong, perhaps they're keeping it hush hush until all the quirks and logistics are ironed out..
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https://www.metalinjection.net/upcoming-releases/dream-theater-to-release-back-to-budokan-2017-live-album-soon
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https://www.metalinjection.net/upcoming-releases/dream-theater-to-release-back-to-budokan-2017-live-album-soon
I got excited at first, but after reading it, it doesn’t have any official info or confirmation from the band :'(
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Yeah, there's sadly no official information as of yet. I'm sure they will find a way to release it eventually! Makes all the sense in the world.
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Yeah, there's sadly no official information as of yet. I'm sure they will find a way to release it eventually! Makes all the sense in the world.
If not, I hope it, at least, ends up in YouTube :sad:
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Yeah, there's sadly no official information as of yet. I'm sure they will find a way to release it eventually! Makes all the sense in the world.
If not, I hope it, at least, ends up in YouTube :sad:
Everything else does (including official releases) so I can't see why this would be any different.
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Yeah, there's sadly no official information as of yet. I'm sure they will find a way to release it eventually! Makes all the sense in the world.
If not, I hope it, at least, ends up in YouTube :sad:
Everything else does (including official releases) so I can't see why this would be any different.
It’ll probably end up there, the problem is that it might be taken down after a while for rights issues. I remember there was a pro shot video of a few songs from their show at Loud Park 2014, also mixed by Chycki, on Youtube a couple years back and it was taken down after a while. I’m glad I could download it before it happened, but it’s no longer on Youtube.
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it is? watching now :P
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Still bummed this isn't from The Astonishing Tour.....
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That lovely piano tone is a big part of The Astonishing. JR's keyboard patch wouldn't do it justice under the scrutiny of a live release
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Still bummed this isn't from The Astonishing Tour.....
Very happy that this ISN'T from TA tour! :)
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I'm just glad that DT is loved so much in Japan that this (quite historical) show has been filmed for TV. Just got the Blueray, amazing! The camera guys did a great job.
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I'm just glad that DT is loved so much in Japan that this (quite historical) show has been filmed for TV. Just got the Blueray, amazing! The camera guys did a great job.
How the fracas are you getting a BlueRay of this???
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How did you guys get the blu ray
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I too would like to know where you guys are ordering the bluray.
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I need it. I. NEED. IT.
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I'm just glad that DT is loved so much in Japan that this (quite historical) show has been filmed for TV. Just got the Blueray, amazing! The camera guys did a great job.
How the fracas are you getting a BlueRay of this???
I got it from discjapan.com
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^^ I've done some digging with that site you provided, and I found this.
https://www.discjapan.com/product/dream-theater-live-at-budokan-2017-1blu-ray-rnon-label/
That stated, the price seems a bit steep for me for a DVD/Bluray (it's around $40.00) and I don't know if I can trust the source of it. I'll just wait until there is an official release and I can get it at Best Buy without any issues.
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^^ I've done some digging with that site you provided, and I found this.
https://www.discjapan.com/product/dream-theater-live-at-budokan-2017-1blu-ray-rnon-label/
That stated, the price seems a bit steep for me for a DVD/Bluray (it's around $40.00) and I don't know if I can trust the source of it. I'll just wait until there is an official release and I can get it at Best Buy without any issues.
Well, I think it's kinda trustworthy if CB already got his copy, but I have no idea how legal is this lol. I know for a fact that some "labels" sell unofficial DT bootlegs in some places and that's wrong. I'd love some clarification with this.
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^^ I've done some digging with that site you provided, and I found this.
https://www.discjapan.com/product/dream-theater-live-at-budokan-2017-1blu-ray-rnon-label/
That stated, the price seems a bit steep for me for a DVD/Bluray (it's around $40.00) and I don't know if I can trust the source of it. I'll just wait until there is an official release and I can get it at Best Buy without any issues.
Last word I got is that there will NOT be an official release.
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^^ I've done some digging with that site you provided, and I found this.
https://www.discjapan.com/product/dream-theater-live-at-budokan-2017-1blu-ray-rnon-label/
That stated, the price seems a bit steep for me for a DVD/Bluray (it's around $40.00) and I don't know if I can trust the source of it. I'll just wait until there is an official release and I can get it at Best Buy without any issues.
Last word I got is that there will NOT be an official release.
That's what I thought as well. None of the DT members have said anything that hinted an official release. Right now, I'm just hoping it finds it's way to Youtube soon.
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I'm just glad that DT is loved so much in Japan that this (quite historical) show has been filmed for TV. Just got the Blueray, amazing! The camera guys did a great job.
How the fracas are you getting a BlueRay of this???
I got it from discjapan.com
How is the audio? Soundboard?
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I'm just glad that DT is loved so much in Japan that this (quite historical) show has been filmed for TV. Just got the Blueray, amazing! The camera guys did a great job.
How the fracas are you getting a BlueRay of this???
I got it from discjapan.com
How is the audio? Soundboard?
I'm not an expert on that, and there's nothing about it on the BlueRay case (only "Linear PCM Stereo") ... it's a recording of the TV broadcast, the audio sounds good to me, professional.
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So, if you compared it to the audio on the original Live At Budokan release, is it comparable to that?
I may be looking to get this, but I'd like your opinion. Thanks.
DanLore
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So, if you compared it to the audio on the original Live At Budokan release, is it comparable to that?
I may be looking to get this, but I'd like your opinion. Thanks.
DanLore
To my (no musician) ears the audio is comparable, perhaps a bit superior, crisper, cleaner on the original Budokan release. I have to hear both, one after the other, to be sure, didn't have the time for that yet. Considering that certainly a lot more work and money has been invested in the original release than in the new Budokan (that was filmed by a small camera crew, as it seems for TV only), the result of the new one is quite amazing. I'm just happy I have this to remember the three I&W shows I saw last year.
BTW, they cut out all the talking between songs. Makes the show a lot shorter!
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Without having heard the new concert, I would say it won't compare to the Budokan DVD as in this new concert seems to be a rip of the TV broadcast so you are going to see a decrease in quality right off the bat. Then the other part is that it's only stereo audio, where as Budokan had surround sound. However, with Chycki doing the mix, I do think it's possible you have a solid mix on this release, I just wouldn't expect it to compare to any of the official release DVDs. I could be wrong, but that would be my expectation. Personally, I wouldn't buy this as it seems to be a bootleg. I'd love an official release though, or at worst case for this to show up on youtube.
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I'd prefer it on stereo anyways, over surround sound for concert dvds. Stereo just works better for music, especially rock bands. I've always watched all my concert blurays/dvd's on stereo only. It sounds so much better. Movies are for surround sound..
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I wonder why Live albums have fallen out of favour with the band of late??
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Almost at the point of being 'done' with live releases by DT. Spent a lof of money on LALP, which sounded abysmal to me. Looked great, sounded bad.
Breaking the fourth wall was a lot better, soundwise. Had high hopes for a TA release, which never came. This just sound like a rehash to me.
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I wonder why Live albums have fallen out of favour with the band of late??
I think it's a trend in music since youtube and live streams have become popular that selling DVDs doesn't make as much sense anymore.
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Almost at the point of being 'done' with live releases by DT. Spent a lof of money on LALP, which sounded abysmal to me. Looked great, sounded bad.
Breaking the fourth wall was a lot better, soundwise. Had high hopes for a TA release, which never came. This just sound like a rehash to me.
Interesting. I think LALP sounds better than BTFW. Nightwish's Vehicle of Spirit (especially The Tampere show) DVD sounds much better than both DT releases. DT needs to get whoever mixed for NW to do their live releases imo.
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I wonder why Live albums have fallen out of favour with the band of late??
I think it's a trend in music since youtube and live streams have become popular that selling DVDs doesn't make as much sense anymore.
Very true. Not to mention, live albums haven't really fallen out of favor with the band. The only proper tour in support of new material they haven't done an official live album for (post-MP) is TA. They did Luna Park and Breaking the Fourth Wall for the tours before that. It's not like they aren't doing live albums any more.
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^^ I've done some digging with that site you provided, and I found this.
https://www.discjapan.com/product/dream-theater-live-at-budokan-2017-1blu-ray-rnon-label/
That stated, the price seems a bit steep for me for a DVD/Bluray (it's around $40.00) and I don't know if I can trust the source of it. I'll just wait until there is an official release and I can get it at Best Buy without any issues.
Last word I got is that there will NOT be an official release.
Bosk, did you have this info directly from the band recently? Since the final product is already done, it seems a lost opportunity to make at least some money out of it, right?
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^^ I've done some digging with that site you provided, and I found this.
https://www.discjapan.com/product/dream-theater-live-at-budokan-2017-1blu-ray-rnon-label/
That stated, the price seems a bit steep for me for a DVD/Bluray (it's around $40.00) and I don't know if I can trust the source of it. I'll just wait until there is an official release and I can get it at Best Buy without any issues.
Last word I got is that there will NOT be an official release.
Bosk, did you have this info directly from the band recently? Since the final product is already done, it seems a lost opportunity to make at least some money out of it, right?
I asked management about a week ago and was told that there wasn't going to be an official release, but that they were checking on something and would get back to me. I haven't heard anything and am not sure what that means.
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So who paid Chycki to mix it? Certainly not the Japanese broadcast team, right?
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Thanks, Bosk. Interesting... maybe this means that they won’t release anything or they are waiting to properly make an announcement of the release, with some marketing etc. I guess 50% to both.
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So who paid Chycki to mix it? Certainly not the Japanese broadcast team, right?
Good point, but IIRC, he also mixed the Loud Park 2014 show (or just a few songs from it) for a TV broadcast and they never released it officially.
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Maybe the band payed him to mix these shows just to have control of audio quality of them?
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I have no idea how this works, but my guess is the whoever owned the rights to broadcast the concert paid the band/label to do so exclusively as a way to get people to watch their channel/show not buy the DVD. And part of that deal was to get someone to mix the audio and it only makes sense to get the guy who works with DT currently. That is assuming there isn't some announcement of an official release coming.
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Bosk, have you heard any updates regarding Official Bootleg/Ytsejam Record-type releases? Seems to me, this seems like the perfect outlet to get recordings (audio and/or video) of the last few tours out, especially since they don't seem to have plans on an official "DVD recording." They could put out the Budokan 2017 show on Blu-ray/CD, an Astonishing 2016 show on CD, and a 30th Anniversary Tour 2015 show out on DVD/CD/Blu-ray/whatever. I think die-hards, like me, would go bananas over the opportunity to own shows from these tours, and would rather have some sort of official release than a youtube video or bootleg from Japan.
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No, but I haven't asked anything about that in a LONG time (i.e., back in the Luna Park timeframe). It's something that has been on my mind the last couple of years though. If I have an opportunity, I'll ask JP about it this Saturday. Thanks for reminding me.
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Speaking to JP this saturday? :omg:
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Speaking to JP this saturday? :omg:
Hopefully. I don't know how busy he is on G3 tours.
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That sounds like a good time, enjoy. :metal
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Speaking to JP this saturday? :omg:
Hopefully. I don't know how busy he is on G3 tours.
Tell him Chino says "sup?".
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Speaking to JP this saturday? :omg:
Hopefully. I don't know how busy he is on G3 tours.
Tell him Chino says "sup?".
I did last time I saw him. He said to let him know if you needed tickets for a show. He told me he could get you almost any seats you wanted. I believe his exact words were, "Anywhere but the balcony."
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:lol
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Zing!
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Speaking to JP this saturday? :omg:
Hopefully. I don't know how busy he is on G3 tours.
I will be there Saturday!!
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Of course I'd like to see the Budokan show, but what I really wanted was a DVD of TA tour...
I hope at least for an audio recording...
Someone said that maybe one day we will have it like SDOIT on Score, but this is too long to include in a setlist with new stuff and other songs... :sad:
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Perhaps they'll play in the future a single TA-show with the stage and setlist like in 2016 to record it for a bluray/DVD. But I guess this will not happen and maybe we get a bootleg CD.
I would be very happy when they release a bluray/DVD from the Budokan 2017 concert and I don't know, what could be a possible problem. The video footage seem to be great, Chycki worked at the sound and the setlist and the venue at awesome.
Will this concert still be broadcasted on Jan, 28th on wowow-TV? I could image that they say at the day after the broadcast, that the show will be available as CD/DVD/BluRay. I think some other bands (Slipknot and Rammstein) did that last year in an similar way. One day, where the concert could be seen worldwide in cinemas and the next day they said, this will be available to buy as CD/DVD/BluRay. That's my hope when I think about an Budokan release.
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Just checked WOWOW 's programming and DT at Budokan '17 is till scheduled for broadcast on the 28th.
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Something has to end up on YouTube or something. If it ends up being released on Blu Ray I would love fo purchase it. The Denver show was unbelievable
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Just checked WOWOW 's programming and DT at Budokan '17 is till scheduled for broadcast on the 28th.
So by the 29th we might see something on youtube
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Just checked WOWOW 's programming and DT at Budokan '17 is till scheduled for broadcast on the 28th.
So by the 29th we might see something on youtube
Someone will probably live stream it to Youtube.
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Just checked WOWOW 's programming and DT at Budokan '17 is till scheduled for broadcast on the 28th.
Nine o'clock on a sunday morning?
Strange timing (I'm usually asleep at that time on sundays :laugh:, but I'm not japanese)
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If they do plan on releasing a blu-ray/dvd of this show, they are wise not to announce it til after the TV broadcast. That way there will be more viewings on TV.
David Gilmour did that on Live at Pompeii. It was run through the select movie theaters before they announced a dvd. That way people would go to the theaters to view it in case it wasn't to be released. Good marketing.
I doubt the DT show will be of that magnitude, but I would still buy it in a heartbeat.
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Couldn't he be just mixing it for the broadcast? Just asking.
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Couldn't he be just mixing it for the broadcast? Just asking.
Theoretically it could be just for the broadcast.
But when I see the screenshots with all the details (4-piece splitscreens for example) it looks like everything you can expect from an official release.
For me it looks to complex for 'just' an once in a lifetime japanese TV release.
I hope so much that it works like the release strategy at David Gilmour, Rammstein and Slipknot latest BluRay's and we know at the day after the broadcast, at January, 29th, that there will be a new BluRay/DVD.
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Eh, if all the costs for the tv production was at the hands of the tv company, i do not see a reason why we would expect an official release. Maybe we could expect an official bootleg down the road, but when they did reveal the tv crew in social media, my assumption was always that they would not release it through the label. This is also what I have heard myself.
The quality of the video editing itself is of no consequence - everything is shot and edited digitally these days and making a split screen shot like that is very easy.
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Don't forget Iron Maiden have just released a live album with the video portion only available online - no physical DVD/BluRay release.
I don't know why bands choose to go down this route, but it must make sense to them.
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Couldn't he be just mixing it for the broadcast? Just asking.
He did the live mix for the CD release that has been announced, it would be no issue for them to use that on the broadcast portion as every thing is time synced (and on a click track to boot.)
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I do not believe there has actually been an announcement for a live CD. BraveWords did post "news" based off a social media commentary from Chycki that he'd finished mixing the concert. Chycki used the image of the bootleg from the same show in the social media post. They picked up on that, found the image and the tracklisting for the bootleg, and assumed there would be a CD.
Other outlets ran stories based on the bravewords article. I have not seen any official information regarding such a release (not from social media accounts, not from label and not from management). In fact, in connection to the label change news, it would be strange to announce a live cd before announcing a label change...
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Couldn't he be just mixing it for the broadcast? Just asking.
He did the live mix for the CD release that has been announced, it would be no issue for them to use that on the broadcast portion as every thing is time synced (and on a click track to boot.)
What now?
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People are always going on about JLB's vocal performances, it's perfectly understandable that they won't do live releases anymore
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No, but I haven't asked anything about that in a LONG time (i.e., back in the Luna Park timeframe). It's something that has been on my mind the last couple of years though. If I have an opportunity, I'll ask JP about it this Saturday. Thanks for reminding me.
Bosk, did you manage to talk to John Petrucci last saturday? Any insight about a new DT live release or solo CD? Thanks!
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Didn't really get to the subject of a live release, other than indirectly. When we were talking about the band's schedule in general, he said some things about what they WILL be doing that had nothing to do with a live release, so I was left with the impression that I had before, which is that there aren't plans for one. But just based on where the conversation went, I didn't directly get on the subject.
But we DID talk about whether he will work on a solo album. In short, it's not going to happen anytime soon. But here's why: The band collectively has a relatively "short" break time now after doing the I&W tour, which remember came right after two TA tours. After this break time, they plan to go into the studio and start working on the new DT album, which is set for a late Fall delivery date, so that it can be released in early 2018. (the label actually wanted it earlier!) For those of us going about our lives and waiting on a new DT album, that seems like a long way off. But in terms of being a band and working with the typical album release cycle and all the details that entails (writing and recording time, then doing the re-records and other little details after the fact, post-production, mixing, and then the production/marketing/release cycle), there really isn't any "spare time" built into the schedule. Right now is the spare time. Unfortunately for those of us wanting a new JP solo album, JP was invited to G3 and is using his "spare time" to do that. There isn't a window for him to record the next solo album, unless he were to rush something while he is on the road, which he doesn't want to do for obvious reasons.
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Cool information, thanks a lot!
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Didn't really get to the subject of a live release, other than indirectly. When we were talking about the band's schedule in general, he said some things about what they WILL be doing that had nothing to do with a live release, so I was left with the impression that I had before, which is that there aren't plans for one. But just based on where the conversation went, I didn't directly get on the subject.
But we DID talk about whether he will work on a solo album. In short, it's not going to happen anytime soon. But here's why: The band collectively has a relatively "short" break time now after doing the I&W tour, which remember came right after two TA tours. After this break time, they plan to go into the studio and start working on the new DT album, which is set for a late Fall delivery date, so that it can be released in early 2018. (the label actually wanted it earlier!) For those of us going about our lives and waiting on a new DT album, that seems like a long way off. But in terms of being a band and working with the typical album release cycle and all the details that entails (writing and recording time, then doing the re-records and other little details after the fact, post-production, mixing, and then the production/marketing/release cycle), there really isn't any "spare time" built into the schedule. Right now is the spare time. Unfortunately for those of us wanting a new JP solo album, JP was invited to G3 and is using his "spare time" to do that. There isn't a window for him to record the next solo album, unless he were to rush something while he is on the road, which he doesn't want to do for obvious reasons.
He could record his solo album while on the studio with DT (if he has more songs written aside from the two he is been playing with G3). I think that's how he did it last time around. I believe there was a small video about it and IIRC, it was at the now defunct Beartracks studio.
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After this break time, they plan to go into the studio and start working on the new DT album, which is set for a late Fall delivery date, so that it can be released in early 2018.
New album coming in few weeks, thanks Bosk! :metal
:lol
Jokes aside (It's more than obvious that you meant early 2019), I get how the timeframe for them isn't really long. It's gonna be a long year of waiting for us but surely no year of doing nothing for them. It will be worth the wait :hat
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Kind of surprised they aren't taking more time off this year. I thought for sure they wouldn't be doing DT this year, but I guess with a new label and their push, it makes sense. I wonder if that means JLB's solo tour idea has been scrapped as that would have been in the fall, other than his progpower appearance.
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If by autumn the album is done and his vocals are recorded, all he has to do is some interviews here and there, and for sure he won't be busy mixing it and producing it. He could still tour. I hope he will!
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Yea, it's possible. I'd love him to tour as well, although Im booked for my trip to ProgPower, it would still be cool for him to get out and do more shows.
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The band collectively has a relatively "short" break time now after doing the I&W tour, which remember came right after two TA tours. After this break time, they plan to go into the studio and start working on the new DT album, which is set for a late Fall delivery date, so that it can be released in early 2018. (the label actually wanted it earlier!)
Really surprised that they aren't gonna have more down time before starting work on the next album. Was it strictly due to label pressure that they're cutting their break short? If so, couldn't they have resisted this? I fear this push might result in them not having enough time to work on the album as they might want or need.
He could record his solo album while on the studio with DT (if he has more songs written aside from the two he is been playing with G3). I think that's how he did it last time around. I believe there was a small video about it and IIRC, it was at the now defunct Beartracks studio.
I think the difference is, last time JP also had MP to help produce and oversee everything going on with the DT album. With MP out of the picture, it's all up to JP, and with him being very hands-on, I can't imagine that he'd want to be missing from any of the band's recording sessions.
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The band collectively has a relatively "short" break time now after doing the I&W tour, which remember came right after two TA tours. After this break time, they plan to go into the studio and start working on the new DT album, which is set for a late Fall delivery date, so that it can be released in early 2018. (the label actually wanted it earlier!)
Really surprised that they aren't gonna have more down time before starting work on the next album. Was it strictly due to label pressure that they're cutting their break short? If so, couldn't they have resisted this? I fear this push might result in them not having enough time to work on the album as they might want or need.
I could be mistaken, but I don't think so. I got the impression from this conversation and others that John is pretty driven to keep them on a pretty regular release schedule, and they are actually behind that schedule now because of how the last tour cycles have gone. The second Astonishing tour was supposed to be much shorter, but it got booked in a way they didn't intend, which pushed back the I&W25 tour. And then that tour also grew beyond expectations as well. So I think they had originally planned on a longer break AND earlier release. But the way things have worked out, they were on the road longer than expected, and they are really itching to get going on some new material.
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Kind of surprised they aren't taking more time off this year. I thought for sure they wouldn't be doing DT this year, but I guess with a new label and their push, it makes sense. I wonder if that means JLB's solo tour idea has been scrapped as that would have been in the fall, other than his progpower appearance.
Crap. Didn't think of that. This is kind of a strange turn of events (y'all thought i was gonna say "dramatic" didn't ya.
But seriously, I'm sure the new album will kick ass no matter what but I was really hoping JLB could do a solo tour and whatnot. The break would also help them recharge the batteries.
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After this break time, they plan to go into the studio and start working on the new DT album, which is set for a late Fall delivery date, so that it can be released in early 2018.
New album coming in few weeks, thanks Bosk! :metal
:lol
:rollin
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Sometimes I wish the band members wouldn't get involved in so many side projects so they could focus more on DT stuff. I do understand from their standpoint why though, so they don't get burnt out on the same thing "day after day, night after night" from the grace of God, the band is still alive.. RROOOOOAAARRRRRRRR!!!!!
Gotta keep it fresh.. :chill
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Crap. Didn't think of that. This is kind of a strange turn of events (y'all thought i was gonna say "dramatic" didn't ya.
But seriously, I'm sure the new album will kick ass no matter what but I was really hoping JLB could do a solo tour and whatnot. The break would also help them recharge the batteries.
Didn't JL try and do a solo tour a few years ago but only a few dozen people showed up to the first show and then it went *poof*?
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He toured in 2005 and completed all the intended dates in Europe and in the USA. He wanted to tour some years later a second time, but working permits for one of the bandmembers didn't work out and the tour had to be canceled.
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The second Astonishing tour was supposed to be much shorter, but it got booked in a way they didn't intend, which pushed back the I&W25 tour. And then that tour also grew beyond expectations as well. So I think they had originally planned on a longer break AND earlier release.
I agree with the fact that the Images, Words and Beyond tour grew beyond expectations so it pushed back the break before the next album but are you sure the second Astonishing tour was supposed to be shorter? Because from what I heard (from a French promoter), Dream Theater was supposed to come back to Europe in Winter 2017 to do a second European TA leg in different and smaller cities (like what they did for the second US leg) but the promoters didn't want them to do that as the 1st European leg and the 2nd US leg were not a success. So in a hurry, the band decided to capitalize on their most famous album to do a second European leg and then they extended it due to its success. I may be seriously mistaken but even James said that they would be back with the Astonishing shows when touring for the 1st time in Europe (I think that in Stockholm, he said, see you in Fall).
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One of my affiliates recently communicated with the band - and the last we’ve heard is that they’re thinking about the dvd but has not decided
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One of my affiliates recently communicated with the band - and the last we’ve heard is that they’re thinking about the dvd but has not decided
Someone needs to influence them.
QUICK SOMEONE GO BUY ME A CRATE OF VARIOUS SMALL MAMMALS
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Quick, lets make a petition!!!!!
(I mean, someone made a petition to kick out jlb, so there can be a petition for this too! :lol )
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Crap. Didn't think of that. This is kind of a strange turn of events (y'all thought i was gonna say "dramatic" didn't ya.
But seriously, I'm sure the new album will kick ass no matter what but I was really hoping JLB could do a solo tour and whatnot. The break would also help them recharge the batteries.
Didn't JL try and do a solo tour a few years ago but only a few dozen people showed up to the first show and then it went *poof*?
As MirrorMask stated, the 2005 tour was completed. It was a small handful of dates. I'm not sure how the attendance was overall but I know at one show, maybe in New Jersey, James joked in between songs, "I should have just had this show in my backyard!" I think I read that only about 50 people showed up (and if I'm not mistaken, one of those people was Mike Portnoy!). I think I have the bootleg of that show and it is fucking killer. So pissed I couldn't make it to any shows so I vowed not to make that mistake again. Bought tickets for his 2011 tour and...well, you know the rest.
There are some youtube clips from his short tour in Europe and they are equally killer to the bootleg I have. They played almost every song off of Elements and a few from the first two. It is almost obscene how good everyone sounded and the bootleg I have wasn't even very good quality.
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There are some youtube clips from his short tour in Europe and they are equally killer to the bootleg I have. They played almost every song off of Elements and a few from the first two. It is almost obscene how good everyone sounded and the bootleg I have wasn't even very good quality.
I know Sfogli and Guillory were there, but do you know who were the other players?
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I believe on the drums there was none other than Mike Mangini himself. EDIT SEE BELOW: I was wrong :D
The european concerts were more well attended anyway. Mine was attended just as any minor/medium act, the (small) place was almost full.
I can only agree that James was impressive on all the setlist, and that he probably sounded better at his own shows than many other DT shows, even though 2005-6 was really his resurgence in terms of performances. I am very happy to have seen that show, and it was also the only occasion I had to meet any DT member - James was beyond gracious and kind to me and as well to anyone else who approached him!
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Lineup for the short JLB tour was:
-John Macaluso on Drums
-Marco Sfogli on guitars
-Matt Guillory on Keyboards
-Andy DeLuca on bass
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There are some youtube clips from his short tour in Europe and they are equally killer to the bootleg I have. They played almost every song off of Elements and a few from the first two. It is almost obscene how good everyone sounded and the bootleg I have wasn't even very good quality.
I just remembered I have a bootleg from that tour called "Persuasively Unmuzzled" that I did the cover artwork for. Doh.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
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There are some youtube clips from his short tour in Europe and they are equally killer to the bootleg I have. They played almost every song off of Elements and a few from the first two. It is almost obscene how good everyone sounded and the bootleg I have wasn't even very good quality.
I just remembered I have a bootleg from that tour called "Persuasively Unmuzzled" that I did the cover artwork for. Doh.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
LOL
I have that one. Didn't know you did the artwork. It's one of my favorite bootlegs.
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Edited. I posted just the quote.
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There are some youtube clips from his short tour in Europe and they are equally killer to the bootleg I have. They played almost every song off of Elements and a few from the first two. It is almost obscene how good everyone sounded and the bootleg I have wasn't even very good quality.
I just remembered I have a bootleg from that tour called "Persuasively Unmuzzled" that I did the cover artwork for. Doh.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
LOL
I have that one. Didn't know you did the artwork. It's one of my favorite bootlegs.
I think that's the One! I have a burnt copy though so I never saw the artwork. I think someone on the Mike Portnoy forum traded that for a full copy in full quality of elements of persuasion. They already had an original copy but not the bonus track which I think is called Understand.
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Did you know if this bootleg is avaible anywhere to download? Thanks!
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If anyone wants the artwork PM me and I'll send it to you. It's not my best work but it does the job.
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Has anyone heard about the live DVD or stream from last night? I can’t find anything on it no pictures no anything.
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Wow wow Japan webpage had it listed as 9 up until this morning and now I can’t find anything on it..hopefully it will pop up somewhere somehow
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It's already been established in this thread that it did air a few months back, and have been available as a bootleg from certain asian sources...
(https://dtnorway.com/bud1.gif)
(https://dtnorway.com/bud2.gif)
But as we're now in a situation where the band hasn't decided whether to release it officially, it's off limits for sharing.
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Just those GIFs look better than any live DVD they've released in the Mangini era
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Just those GIFs look better than any live DVD they've released in the Mangini era
:flame:
But what song are the playing in each one? Who can figure it out based on the images-without-words/sounds masterful fingering?
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:flame:
But what song are the playing in each one? Who can figure it out based on the images-without-words/sounds masterful fingering?
It's easy: Wait for Sleep !!! :metal :metal
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maybe dark eternal night?
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Just those GIFs look better than any live DVD they've released in the Mangini era
The image quality for BTFW is incredible, so I don't know where that comment is coming from lol.
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Just those GIFs look better than any live DVD they've released in the Mangini era
The image quality for BTFW is incredible, so I don't know where that comment is coming from lol.
True, but the video quality of this looks pretty great as well.
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Just those GIFs look better than any live DVD they've released in the Mangini era
:flame:
But what song are the playing in each one? Who can figure it out based on the images-without-words/sounds masterful fingering?
Top one is Metropolis.
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Just those GIFs look better than any live DVD they've released in the Mangini era
The image quality for BTFW is incredible, so I don't know where that comment is coming from lol.
True, but the video quality of this looks pretty great as well.
Yeah, and I know this probably looks gorgeous but there’s no solid way to know how it compares to BTFW, which was great in its own right (given this was specifically recorded for TV broadcast). No ill will here, I definitely hope we get to see this sometime soon in any form possible.
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Just those GIFs look better than any live DVD they've released in the Mangini era
The image quality for BTFW is incredible, so I don't know where that comment is coming from lol.
True, but the video quality of this looks pretty great as well.
Yeah, and I know this probably looks gorgeous but there’s no solid way to know how it compares to BTFW, which was great in its own right (given this was specifically recorded for TV broadcast). No ill will here, I definitely hope we get to see this sometime soon in any form possible.
Yea, BTFW is fantastic in terms of video quality. You can't tell anything about those gifs that would make me think it's better from that alone. It's totally possible, but I wouldn't make that call without seeing the video.
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Just those GIFs look better than any live DVD they've released in the Mangini era
The image quality for BTFW is incredible, so I don't know where that comment is coming from lol.
True, but the video quality of this looks pretty great as well.
Yeah, and I know this probably looks gorgeous but there’s no solid way to know how it compares to BTFW, which was great in its own right (given this was specifically recorded for TV broadcast). No ill will here, I definitely hope we get to see this sometime soon in any form possible.
Yea, BTFW is fantastic in terms of video quality. You can't tell anything about those gifs that would make me think it's better from that alone. It's totally possible, but I wouldn't make that call without seeing the video.
Couldn't agree more. BTFW has fantastic quality, far better than LALP.
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Chaos in Motion was the only time I've had a problem with their image quality. (And Breaking The Fourth Wall was the only time I had a problem with their audio quality)
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I just want it released ASAP
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I just want it released ASAP
I still hope it'll be officially released, even if JLB was not at his top that night...
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Chaos in Motion was the only time I've had a problem with their image quality. (And Breaking The Fourth Wall was the only time I had a problem with their audio quality)
Surprised at that as I think Chaos In Motion is pretty bad visually and awful sounding. BTFW to me sounds superb, just like the gig I went to. The early songs sound a little muddy but they did in person as well. Once you get past that though, the rest of the concert sounds amazing to me.
I hope they release this new show but not if JLB sounds bad. I never listen or watch the OIALT or CIM stuff purely for that reason as JLB is unlistenable. This is coming from a fan of JLB by the way.
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I suppose I did judge BTFW based on the early songs. I remember stopping the DVD, spending some time trying to figure out what was wrong with my setup, trying my headphones vs my monitors, seeing if the surround sound mix improved anything.
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Chaos in Motion was the only time I've had a problem with their image quality. (And Breaking The Fourth Wall was the only time I had a problem with their audio quality)
Surprised at that as I think Chaos In Motion is pretty bad visually and awful sounding. BTFW to me sounds superb, just like the gig I went to. The early songs sound a little muddy but they did in person as well. Once you get past that though, the rest of the concert sounds amazing to me.
I hope they release this new show but not if JLB sounds bad. I never listen or watch the OIALT or CIM stuff purely for that reason as JLB is unlistenable. This is coming from a fan of JLB by the way.
Agreed. What bothers me the most in the last couple of live albums though is the audio database crowd. Bt4W has a recurring female laugh on the left speaker that causes me to give up listening to the album whenever I attempt to give it another chance. Score still remains as my favorite soundwise.
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^^ THIS. Bad. Once you hear it, you can never fully enjoy the recordings again.
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What bothers me the most in the last couple of live albums though is the audio database crowd. Bt4W has a recurring female laugh on the left speaker that causes me to give up listening to the album whenever I attempt to give it another chance.
I hear ya - I feel the same way about L@LP. That incessant whistling every 10 seconds irritates me to no end.
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What bothers me the most in the last couple of live albums though is the audio database crowd. Bt4W has a recurring female laugh on the left speaker that causes me to give up listening to the album whenever I attempt to give it another chance.
I hear ya - I feel the same way about L@LP. That incessant whistling every 10 seconds irritates me to no end.
It can't be as bad as my all time worst crowd noise thing ever: All those people whistling during 2112:Overture on All The World's A Stage.
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What bothers me the most in the last couple of live albums though is the audio database crowd. Bt4W has a recurring female laugh on the left speaker that causes me to give up listening to the album whenever I attempt to give it another chance.
I hear ya - I feel the same way about L@LP. That incessant whistling every 10 seconds irritates me to no end.
It can't be as bad as my all time worst crowd noise thing ever: All those people whistling during 2112:Overture on All The World's A Stage.
Nah - at least what you heard on AtWaS is really what happened - unlike what I'm talking about, where DT took the crowd noise, created a 10 second loop, and repeated throughout the whole live recording. Awful and really poor.
And for the record, I don't have a problem with crowd noise - even on AtWaS, GUPTour and Rush in Rio, IMO the audience adds to the vibe of the show/recording. What we're talking about does just the opposite.
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I'll take canned crowd noise any day over the crowds that sing/chant the INSTRUMENTAL parts for the entire concert. Looking at anything in South America and most of Europe.
If people want to sing along with lyrics, great, but going "wooooWHOOOOOOOOwaaaaaaaaaWOOOOOOOwoooooooo" during a bass line or drum fill is just awful.
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I love crowd participation and it's part of why I love albums like Rock in Rio. The crowd becomes part of the music, makes it unique and adds a more live feel to it. I do not like fake crowd noises added though.
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What bothers me the most in the last couple of live albums though is the audio database crowd. Bt4W has a recurring female laugh on the left speaker that causes me to give up listening to the album whenever I attempt to give it another chance.
I hear ya - I feel the same way about L@LP. That incessant whistling every 10 seconds irritates me to no end.
Oh I hate the way the crowd noise is mixed in on BTFW. It's hard to listen to. I'd much rather just listen to the boot, especially where James forgets Erin's name, and thanks the wrong college. :lol
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I'm pretty sure that if you asked JP, he'd say there isn't any canned applause on any of the live albums... ;)
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I'm pretty sure that if you asked JP, he'd say there isn't any canned applause on any of the live albums... ;)
Well, he's only saying that because he...um...can.
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I love crowd participation and it's part of why I love albums like Rock in Rio. The crowd becomes part of the music, makes it unique and adds a more live feel to it. I do not like fake crowd noises added though.
Are you talking about Rock in Rio (Iron Maiden) or Rush in Rio, as both are awesome in terms of crowd participation.
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Me too. When I heard the final part of A Change of Seasons on Once in a Lifetime when the audience sings along to the instrumental chord progression (the 'whoa whoa whoaaaaa whoaa' part right before The Crimson Sunset) I thought that was the best part of an slightly above average live album.
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Don't want to get too off topic but I'd throw this in as one of my fav. "crowd participation" songs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zun0tdmS7J8
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To get beck on topic. I really don't see any kind of live video release coming about from this. It was for Japanese TV. If the band were to put something out, they would have announced that a show was gonna be filmed for a dvd before they even played the show. So it might be a pointless discussion from here on out.. :-\
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To get beck on topic. I really don't see any kind of live video release coming about from this. It was for Japanese TV. If the band were to put something out, they would have announced that a show was gonna be filmed for a dvd before they even played the show. So it might be a pointless discussion from here on out.. :-\
I agree, but at least we can still hope it appears on YouTube or somewhere else :'(
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*snip*
Fan recordings with quality audio
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That was cool. I wish JLB wouldn't change the way he sings PMU so much in the verses. Too many high notes sounds forced. The original way sounds so much better. It sounded like he fell flat on a lot of notes, but that might just be a bad recording listening to it through a mobile phone.
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I think he's getting better. He went into a softer voice to hit the notes in 'my only fathers son'. :D Usually once he goes into yelling/wailing mode, there's no turning back
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Can anyone confirm if this show was broadcasted at the end of January? It’s strange that it isn’t already on internet to watch.
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What do you mean, not available to watch? There's several of us who's seen it many times already. It's been available as a bootleg for months.
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What do you mean, not available to watch? There's several of us who's seen it many times already. It's been available as a bootleg for months.
Could you provide a link? Thx
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Are we even allowed to trade this? As there's no official position at all coming from the band?
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What do you mean, not available to watch? There's several of us who's seen it many times already. It's been available as a bootleg for months.
On YouTube. I understood the people who saw it, they bought the bootleg that it’s selling at some sites before the TV broadcast, right?
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The TV broadcast in january was a rerun. It was first run in november. And subsequently bootlegged.
But due to the case of it's official release still being unknown from the band, it's off limits for sharing.
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My copy arrived earlier this week and It really is a top notch
release. Some excellent camera work and production gone into this. Would be such a shame if this were never made an official release as it It's the perfect kind of thing for the band to put on ytse jam if they were so inclined.
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If this was to be released officially by the band, by this time we would already know and those bootlegs that are being sold would habe been stopped. It’s clear the band has not intentions on maling this an official release
EDIT: if I am wrong it would be cool that those that have access to the band if you could ask them directly
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I really do hope they release this as an Ytsejam release.
Wasn't Bucharest also a tv production? Hence why they replaced the t.v. logo with the Majesty symbol.
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EDIT: if I am wrong it would be cool that those that have access to the band if you could ask them directly
I think bosk already did, and JP said they had no concrete plans whatsoever. But who knows, a man can dream.
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I really do hope they release this as an Ytsejam release.
Wasn't Bucharest also a tv production? Hence why they replaced the t.v. logo with the Majesty symbol.
Has there been any Ytsejam releases since the MP-split? Just asking, cause I can't remember any.
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I really do hope they release this as an Ytsejam release.
Wasn't Bucharest also a tv production? Hence why they replaced the t.v. logo with the Majesty symbol.
Has there been any Ytsejam releases since the MP-split? Just asking, cause I can't remember any.
Ytsejam release per se, no. Only the "Happy Holidays" from 2013 AFAIR.
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*snip*
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Well then... that was stellar.
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Holy. Shit.
What a shame that all this great effort to film this won't be made available for purchase. It's the opposite of all that expense and effort went into the The Astonishing tour/show and it wasn't filmed.
I'd also like to ad that I think the Japanese camera crews always get this best shots and know how to film musicians... and *this* is how you do split screens to get everyone on-screen at once.
Wow(ow).
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This is a big "shut up and take my money" case for me. If they don't end up releasing it, I really reaaaally hope the rest of the songs end up on youtube.
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Fk me. This sounds so good. Man what a great show that was.
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NEED
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Wow. That was shot by someone who absolutely "gets" DT! :metal
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That video is beautiful. I really want to watch/hear the whole show after this.
Also, I've seen some people complain about the following stuff (and I'm kinda quoting here):
1) What is Mangini doing? It's a ride, not a hi-hat! LEARN THE SONG PLS
2) What is Rudess doing? Why is he not playing the bells at the end? HAVE THEY FORGOTTEN THEIR OWN MATERIAL?
3) What is Petrucci doing? He's all over the place and he's forgetting how to play his instrument.
4) Who edited the video?! PLEASE LEARN THE SONG
Man, DT fans can be quite the vicious handful. I try to stay away as much as I can from DT-related conversations because it seems that nowadays it's kinda hard to just talk and enjoy something for what it is.
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Incredibly good ! It’s not overly produced like an official release, and because of that, it has a very genuine live feel. Excellent!!!
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Well then... that was stellar.
Yes..
Incredibly good ! It’s not overly produced like an official release, and because of that, it has a very genuine live feel. Excellent!!!
I agree. BTFW was so over produced I can't even really listen to it.
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Wow. That was shot by someone who absolutely "gets" DT! :metal
Yeah, and it's similar to the Budokan '04 shot. What I love about how they shoot the band is that while focusing on a main member, they are able to capture a second member clearly in the shot.
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That was very cool. More, please.
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Great video work - I love the shot of Myung with Mangini in the background. Sound is also excellent, with a very natural and balanced mix.
If this was released I’d buy it in an instant.
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WOW!! Outstanding video! I'm in the "Please take my money" camp. :lol
The mix is good! Hell.... I can distinctly hear JM!!!!
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Not only did that sound incredible, but it looked incredible, and the way it was shot was fantastic. I need more of this. I also agree with the comments about overproducing the official releases. Man that was good.
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Pst: this is still a bootleg recording off of tv / leak...
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Incredible video
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Yea agree with everyone here, awesome video and makes me wonder where the rest is to purchase. Also, great shots and audio, the drum sound really makes it feel live.
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Just watched it again and I would buy this in a heart beat.
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Simply incredible..should be and needs to be an official release..curious how James was mixed..he sounded great to me in Dallas at the very last show of the tour
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Heart breaking to not have it available to purchase.
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Wow! That has a Live at Budokan feel to it I really like. Very clean and cozy :)
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I haven't been keeping up but can someone give me a quick explanation on why it won't be released?
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Who has said it won't be released? :P
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Wow.... That was really good.
The mix was raw enough to sound not over produced, but still very good. Totally refreshing to hear that much bass in the mix and surprise, surprise that (to me) made MM's drums sound better (his drums sounded real solid here).
The camera work and visuals are fantastic. The band should really consider releasing this.
Who has said it won't be released? :P
Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought someone from the band said they weren't releasing it?
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The band said multiple times when asked (I believe that this is registred in this thread) something like that "there's no plans to release...". So, I guess we are being very careful/conservative to consider that it still exists any possibility the band changes its mind and release it in the future and I guess that this is the opinion from the moderators here (that it still exists the possibility of a release - correct me, if I'm wrong). In my opinion, I think that this is very very unlikely at this point and maybe we could treat this footage like an "OK bootleg".
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*snip*
:metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
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The band said multiple times when asked (I believe that this is registred in this thread) something like that "there's no plans to release...". So, I guess we are being very careful/conservative to consider that it still exists any possibility the band changes its mind and release it in the future and I guess that this is the opinion from the moderators here (that it still exists the possibility of a release - correct me, if I'm wrong). In my opinion, I think that this is very very unlikely at this point and maybe we could treat this footage like an "OK bootleg".
Exactly my thoughts. At this point, they seem focused only on DT14, and don’t seem too interested in releasing a live album anytime soon.
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Well, I haven't had a definite no from the band or management yet. Which means it's still off limits.
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Very nice filming and sound clarity. I would certainly buy this if released. The lighting looks super cool on this show which is a nice change from the screens..
I think this one looks and sounds better than the last two releases, BTFW, and LALP. it would be a bummer if this doesn't get released..
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Well, I haven't had a definite no from the band or management yet. Which means it's still off limits.
Is that how it works? I'm not trying to be sarcastic; I'm truly looking for clarification. Obviously this is not officially released material, but to many, that basically means it's a bootleg. And to many, a bootleg can be anything from fan-shot on a phonecam to stuff like this, which is clearly pro-shot but still not officially released.
What if another six or eight or 12 months pass, and there's still not a "definite no"? We still can't share it or discuss it because it's still off limits? I'm wondering if there's anything like a statute of limitations. Five years from now, if the band never came right out and said that they weren't officially releasing this footage, is it still in limbo?
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I am not aware of it being off limits. If I hear anything to the contrary, I will obviously step in and put the kibosh on sharing. But I have not heard any such thing.
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The Bosk has spoken.
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I am not aware of it being off limits. If I hear anything to the contrary, I will obviously step in and put the kibosh on sharing. But I have not heard any such thing.
Thanks for the clarification, Bosk! :tup
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I am checking with management just to make sure. But I seem to recall either management or JP telling me in the past that it is not planned for commercial release. As long as that is the case, and the footage is from a tv broadcast, I am not going to stop people from posting.
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...they don’t seem too interested in releasing a live album anytime soon.
What's the downside? Other than not wanting to over-saturate your market, what other reasons could exist for not wanting to release something - assuming you are proud of it and feel there would be a demand for it, of course.
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...they don’t seem too interested in releasing a live album anytime soon.
What's the downside? Other than not wanting to over-saturate your market, what other reasons could exist for not wanting to release something - assuming you are proud of it and feel there would be a demand for it, of course.
I think the bolded is mainly the issue. Generally speaking, they don't feel there is a significant enough demand for live recordings right now to justify the cost of mass-producing, distribution, etc. given that EVERYTHING gets posted on Youtube nowadays. I kind of disagree with that. But at the end of the day, I also understand it. And I have to acknowledge that I'm just a fan who wants more stuff, so... :lol :dunno:
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...they don’t seem too interested in releasing a live album anytime soon.
What's the downside? Other than not wanting to over-saturate your market, what other reasons could exist for not wanting to release something - assuming you are proud of it and feel there would be a demand for it, of course.
Those just might be the reasons the record company doesn't want to invest in a release. Although, I do wonder that maybe this would be ripe for a Ytse Jam release. Just seems too well done to not be released in some fashion.
However, the video posted is instrumental. I'm wondering how JLB does at this show and maybe that's a reason not to release it.
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...they don’t seem too interested in releasing a live album anytime soon.
What's the downside? Other than not wanting to over-saturate your market, what other reasons could exist for not wanting to release something - assuming you are proud of it and feel there would be a demand for it, of course.
I think the bolded is mainly the issue. Generally speaking, they don't feel there is a significant enough demand for live recordings right now to justify the cost of mass-producing, distribution....
Right, and I have no understanding of the music industry, but I would have thought a high percentage of the cost of such a recording would be in the recording itself, which in this case is already done. The actual making of a CD and packaging can't cost that much, right?
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ok so who can share with me?
Pretty please?
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...they don’t seem too interested in releasing a live album anytime soon.
What's the downside? Other than not wanting to over-saturate your market, what other reasons could exist for not wanting to release something - assuming you are proud of it and feel there would be a demand for it, of course.
I think the bolded is mainly the issue. Generally speaking, they don't feel there is a significant enough demand for live recordings right now to justify the cost of mass-producing, distribution....
Right, and I have no understanding of the music industry, but I would have thought a high percentage of the cost of such a recording would be in the recording itself, which in this case is already done. The actual making of a CD and packaging can't cost that much, right?
Yeah, that's a good point. But a couple of things to add:
As far as the cost of pressing a CD, packing, etc., it's not a huge cost in terms of just the materials, which are cheap. But it's not just the materials. There's more to it than that.
As far as the cost of recording itself, yeah, that is probably a big chunk of it, and could perhaps be the biggest. But let's think for a second about where that cost actually lies. I am guessing here about where the cost for that lies. But if it was done for a tv spot, I think it is likely that the tv channel paid for it. And think about how costs and revenues get spread around when it comes to tv of any kind. The money mostly comes from advertisers who pay for their commercials, right? In simplest terms, a tv station will pay for a given program if they think it is likely to get enough views that advertisers will pay for commercials to be on during that time slot. There are obviously a lot of layers to that. But in any case, the tv station, which is an entity with a lot of revenue and capitol, pays and then holds the rights. They are in a better position to also take the risks associated with whatever programs (as far as not getting enough views of a particular program), because those risks hopefully get spread out. Assuming they were to sell their rights in this recording to DT (which assumes they have the right), the cost would then be passed on to DT, and that might be more than the band are willing to pay. Again, this is all hypothetical. But do you see why it could be an issue from the band's perspective?
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It was said that new Haken's live DVD happened just because of the high demand of the fans to InsideOut. Since DT is now with InsideOut, maybe if we make a big petition, we can make it work? (By the way, I don't have a clue how to organize something like this) I read in some interviews that InsideOut wanted a lot DT to release a new album yet this year. Maybe a live release wouldn't interest them?
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It was said that new Haken's live DVD happened just because of the high demand of the fans to InsideOut. Since DT is now with InsideOut, maybe if we make a big petition, we can make it work? (By the way, I don't have a clue how to organize something like this) I read in some interviews that InsideOut wanted a lot DT to release a new album yet this year. Maybe a live release wouldn't interest them?
I don't know how it works, but none of the songs from the DVD would be from an InsideOut album to help promote with the release of a live album of music from a different label/s.
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..
However, the video posted is instrumental. I'm wondering how JLB does at this show and maybe that's a reason not to release it.
My thoughts exactly! After watching an audience shot version of "Another Day" at Budokon, the vocals sounded pretty bad. It could be that the quality of the recording made him sound flat. I dunno, but if the vocals don't sound right, I could see why that would be a deal breaker for a release. It would be a bummer if a show like that was professionally shot, and JLB ended up having a bad night.
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It was said that new Haken's live DVD happened just because of the high demand of the fans to InsideOut. Since DT is now with InsideOut, maybe if we make a big petition, we can make it work? (By the way, I don't have a clue how to organize something like this) I read in some interviews that InsideOut wanted a lot DT to release a new album yet this year. Maybe a live release wouldn't interest them?
I don't know how it works, but none of the songs from the DVD would be from an InsideOut album to help promote with the release of a live album of music from a different label/s.
Unless DT owns the publishing rights to their songs.
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It was said that new Haken's live DVD happened just because of the high demand of the fans to InsideOut. Since DT is now with InsideOut, maybe if we make a big petition, we can make it work? (By the way, I don't have a clue how to organize something like this) I read in some interviews that InsideOut wanted a lot DT to release a new album yet this year. Maybe a live release wouldn't interest them?
I don't know how it works, but none of the songs from the DVD would be from an InsideOut album to help promote with the release of a live album of music from a different label/s.
Unless DT owns the publishing rights to their songs.
That doesn't necessarily mean anything for these purposes. What matters is who owns the right to that performance.
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***UPDATE***
DO NOT POST/SHARE/REQUEST LINKS TO ANY RECORDINGS OF THIS SHOW. AS OF NOW, IT IS OFF-LIMITS.
That's all I can say at the moment on the subject, but I just got word that it is off limits, at least for the time being.
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Well, shit.
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(i was trying to be a bit more subtle when saying it was off limits, but okay ;))
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Well at least we got Hells Kitchen... :metal
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So... maybe this means a good thing in terms of a future release?! :corn :corn :corn
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soon :lol
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soon :lol
No more RR, though :lol
So... maybe this means a good thing in terms of a future release?! :corn :corn :corn
This is a...wait for it... dramatic turn of events. I must say I’m astonished! :biggrin:
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For me, this can only mean that there's something in the making :o
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***UPDATE***
DO NOT POST/SHARE/REQUEST LINKS TO ANY RECORDINGS OF THIS SHOW. AS OF NOW, IT IS OFF-LIMITS.
That's all I can say at the moment on the subject, but I just got word that it is off limits, at least for the time being.
:o
This is a good thing, right? RIGHT???
:metal
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(i was trying to be a bit more subtle when saying it was off limits, but okay ;))
Appreciated, but subtlety doesn't work around here. In my case, it just made me want to know why. Like a little kid, if you tell me I can't do something, my first question is "Why not?" Not to be obstinate, but because there must be a reason, and I would want to know it.
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(i was trying to be a bit more subtle when saying it was off limits, but okay ;))
Should’ve PM’ed Bosk :lol
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Go ahead... Ban me!
(https://aff5fa4925746bf9c161-fb36f18ca122a30f6899af8eef8fa39b.ssl.cf5.rackcdn.com/images/Masthead_Link.17345b1513ac044897cfc243542899dce541e8dc.9afde10b.png)
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For me, this can only mean that there's something in the making :o
I wouldn't say "in the making," because that makes it sound more definite. But it is safe to say something is "being considered."
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Bonus DVD with the deluxe edition of the new album :metal
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I'll say Ytsejam release is looking more plausible. Bucharest was a tv broadcast, they just put the majesty logo over the tv logo.
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For me, this can only mean that there's something in the making :o
I wouldn't say "in the making," because that makes it sound more definite. But it is safe to say something is "being considered."
Consideration is a positive step. To me, it at least means that the band likes what they see & hear enough to possibly do something with it as it pertains to a release of some sort.
The video for Hell's Kitchen was great. Great audio but great video too. It was easy to watch. I would be a buyer if the show was released.
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For me, this can only mean that there's something in the making :o
I wouldn't say "in the making," because that makes it sound more definite. But it is safe to say something is "being considered."
After seeing that HK video, I'm glad to hear they are considering something, that footage was really good.
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I'll say Ytsejam release is looking more plausible. Bucharest was a tv broadcast, they just put the majesty logo over the tv logo.
Yea I agree. Would be the best quality video for a ytse jam release though. It's like it's too good for ytse jam, but that just seems the proper place for a TV broadcast.
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Could be very plausible for an official live release or an YTSJEAM bootleg. I think this release (if it happens) will ease the wait on the new studio album since JP said in an interview that the release for the new material would be late 2018 (less likely) or early 2019 (most likely).
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Lets all hit up the band, say "shut up and take my money". Maybe if they see the high demand they'll consider it even more.
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***UPDATE***
DO NOT POST/SHARE/REQUEST LINKS TO ANY RECORDINGS OF THIS SHOW. AS OF NOW, IT IS OFF-LIMITS.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/144Q1gg0FkTEVG/giphy.gif)
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Trust me, the requests for Budokan release has been forwarded to the right people.
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Trust me, the requests for Budokan release has been forwarded to the right people.
Was there a meme involved? :P
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Sorry for asking something on a completely different topic: Considering an Astonishing Live DVD NOT happening:
Maybe there was a problem with the band now being under contract with InsideOut? Could it be possible that they can't release the Astonishing material on a live DVD because it was a RoadRunner-album?
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Sorry for asking something on a completely different topic: Considering an Astonishing Live DVD NOT happening:
Maybe there was a problem with the band now being under contract with InsideOut? Could it be possible that they can't release the Astonishing material on a live DVD because it was a RoadRunner-album?
I don't think the band even filmed Astonishing shows. So it's not a matter of the footage, it's a matter of setting a one-time show to film it and that would cost money.
It all depends on who owns the rights to the album..Could have been that maybe RR sold the rights to DT's catalog. It's something that the band could clarify later on.
Kscope just bought the masters for Porcupine Tree's Deadwing and In Absentia from Warner/Atlantic and that's why they released the Deadwing and In Absentia vinyls. So it all comes down to what the contract says as far as the music rights go.
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Sorry for asking something on a completely different topic: Considering an Astonishing Live DVD NOT happening:
Maybe there was a problem with the band now being under contract with InsideOut? Could it be possible that they can't release the Astonishing material on a live DVD because it was a RoadRunner-album?
I don't think the band even filmed Astonishing shows. So it's not a matter of the footage, it's a matter of setting a one-time show to film it and that would cost money.
This. They thought about it, and even tentatively talked about a city to do it in IF they decided to do it. But they ultimately concluded that it just didn't make financial sense and there wasn't likely to be a high enough demand for it.
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Sorry for asking something on a completely different topic: Considering an Astonishing Live DVD NOT happening:
Maybe there was a problem with the band now being under contract with InsideOut? Could it be possible that they can't release the Astonishing material on a live DVD because it was a RoadRunner-album?
I don't think the band even filmed Astonishing shows. So it's not a matter of the footage, it's a matter of setting a one-time show to film it and that would cost money.
This. They thought about it, and even tentatively talked about a city to do it in IF they decided to do it. But they ultimately concluded that it just didn't make financial sense and there wasn't likely to be a high enough demand for it.
I'd so be down for audio though. It's be cool to relisten to the album live after it's sunk in some....
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Sorry for asking something on a completely different topic: Considering an Astonishing Live DVD NOT happening:
Maybe there was a problem with the band now being under contract with InsideOut? Could it be possible that they can't release the Astonishing material on a live DVD because it was a RoadRunner-album?
I don't think the band even filmed Astonishing shows. So it's not a matter of the footage, it's a matter of setting a one-time show to film it and that would cost money.
This. They thought about it, and even tentatively talked about a city to do it in IF they decided to do it. But they ultimately concluded that it just didn't make financial sense and there wasn't likely to be a high enough demand for it.
I'd so be down for audio though. It's be cool to relisten to the album live after it's sunk in some....
So would I. And for video, I really enjoy what little there is on youtube, just to kind of relive the experience a bit.
For future live releases - audio or both audio/video, I'd totally be down for a crowd funding campaign. That way those of us of the "shut up and take my money" mindset can chip in what we will to see it through. I bet they'd make enough to cover the costs plus a little extra, even though apparently most people these days just watch it on youtube.
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Sorry for asking something on a completely different topic: Considering an Astonishing Live DVD NOT happening:
Maybe there was a problem with the band now being under contract with InsideOut? Could it be possible that they can't release the Astonishing material on a live DVD because it was a RoadRunner-album?
I don't think the band even filmed Astonishing shows. So it's not a matter of the footage, it's a matter of setting a one-time show to film it and that would cost money.
This. They thought about it, and even tentatively talked about a city to do it in IF they decided to do it. But they ultimately concluded that it just didn't make financial sense and there wasn't likely to be a high enough demand for it.
I get that decision from a business standpoint, but they could have done the fan base a solid and lifted the cellphone ban for the final three shows on the second US leg or something once they knew there wouldn't be a legit filming.
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Well, (1) They didn't know at that point. (2) I doubt the cell phone ban was even on their radar at that point. (3) Even if it was, I think that might have unintentionally created even more backlash if they did what you are suggesting when fans who were shut down by the "cell phone Nazis" at prior shows would have gotten wind that other fans were allowed to film.
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This secrecy and banning of links makes me moist. Want more. MOAR :neverusethis:
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Well, (1) They didn't know at that point. (2) I doubt the cell phone ban was even on their radar at that point. (3) Even if it was, I think that might have unintentionally created even more backlash if they did what you are suggesting when fans who were shut down by the "cell phone Nazis" at prior shows would have gotten wind that other fans were allowed to film.
cell phone Nazis...yeah, like the ass security that ruined my videos of Don't Look Past Me, To Live Forever, and Another Day. >:( :censored
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cell phone Nazis...yeah, like the ass security that ruined my videos of Don't Look Past Me, To Live Forever, and Another Day. >:( :censored
That was up to the venue during the I&W Anniversary tour. Security didn't give a shit in Austin. But it did give a shit (per the band's request) at the Astonishing San Antonio and Denver shows.
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cell phone Nazis...yeah, like the ass security that ruined my videos of Don't Look Past Me, To Live Forever, and Another Day. >:( :censored
That was up to the venue during the I&W Anniversary tour. Security didn't give a shit in Austin. But it did give a shit (per the band's request) at the Astonishing San Antonio and Denver shows.
Thats how it was said for Albq (per request of the band). And I had front row. Didn't stop me from taking a pic. I feel it was more for video as you'll have the phone out longer.
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I was right up against the stage at the Reno show on the second leg of the Astonishing tour, and the front of the stage was lined with printed signs saying no pics or video. I respected that and didn't take any pics or video of the show (I was literally about 10 feet from JP, and I'm sure he would have smacked me with his guitar if I had tried). But I couldn't resist taking an irreverent selfie of myself next to one of the signs after the show. :lol
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I was right up against the stage at the Reno show on the second leg of the Astonishing tour, and the front of the stage was lined with printed signs saying no pics or video. I respected that and didn't take any pics or video of the show (I was literally about 10 feet from JP, and I'm sure he would have smacked me with his guitar if I had tried). But I couldn't resist taking an irreverent selfie of myself next to one of the signs after the show. :lol
In St. Louis, I snapped a photo of the stage after getting into my seat, when the house lights were still on. Rules are for tools, man :2metal:
Seriously though, it was pretty nice taking a look back throughout the show and seeing no cell phones out. Never had a concert experience like it.
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Both TA show, the camera nazi's were out, but 2/3 of the I&W&B shows they didn't care. The other one, the NJ show, they said pictures were fine, but no prolonged video. It seemed that last tour was up to the venue I guess. My I&W&B video on youtube was mostly from the Dallas show where they didn't care at all and the NYC show where they cared more about where I put my cup than my camera.
The no phone policy is starting to hurt bands. A Perfect Circle is constantly getting destroyed on social media for their strict policy. Apparently the Misfits concert I am going to will have a really strict policy too that has social media in a storm. It really makes people mad and turn on their favorite bands and leaves people with the feeling that "if they don't want people taking video, it's because their performance sucks". I don't personally like the policy but it doesn't stop me from going to see my favorite bands. I am curious about this Misfits show though and how it'll work.
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I was right up against the stage at the Reno show on the second leg of the Astonishing tour, and the front of the stage was lined with printed signs saying no pics or video.
That is total bullshit. (Not your story ;D, but the fact that they actually did that.)
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The no phone policy is starting to hurt bands. A Perfect Circle is constantly getting destroyed on social media for their strict policy. Apparently the Misfits concert I am going to will have a really strict policy too that has social media in a storm. It really makes people mad and turn on their favorite bands and leaves people with the feeling that "if they don't want people taking video, it's because their performance sucks". I don't personally like the policy but it doesn't stop me from going to see my favorite bands. I am curious about this Misfits show though and how it'll work.
I don't understand why it's such a big deal that people get this angry and feel the need to trash bands over it. Is it really so much to ask that people just watch the show?
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I mean, I get not wanting people to have their phones out, but once you start confiscating them at the door, that's where I'd draw the line, too. Screw that.
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I have no problem whatsoever with a band having a no pics/video policy, and I can't imagine getting bent out of shape over it as a fan. But that said, bands need to realize that a good number of fans WILL get bent out of shape over it. The guys in DT (well, specifically, JP--I have no idea how others feel about it) HATE cell phones at shows. But they put up with it and haven't banned them outside of the TA tour because they do understand that it makes fans mad.
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I have no problem whatsoever with a band having a no pics/video policy, and I can't imagine getting bent out of shape over it as a fan.
Well a band can do whatever the hell they want, right. I can understand them (not pointing this at DT, but as a general statement) not wanting to be filmed, but a no pic policy, to me, makes me nuts. At the end of the day, a fan wants their own little souvenir, and maybe they don't want to pay $40 for a shirt. hell, they already paid $65+ to get in in the first place.
Having cell phones at shows, frankly , is part of the fan experience now. I'm a fogey, and even I understand that. But at the end of the day, it's about fans sharing their experiences to others. Hell, they may get them interested to go out a buy an album, or buy a concert ticket the next tour.
JP seems like an awesome guy. He really does, but he obviously forgot what it feels like to be a fan. We bought a ticket for the damn show, for God's sakes.
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Sorry for asking something on a completely different topic: Considering an Astonishing Live DVD NOT happening:
Maybe there was a problem with the band now being under contract with InsideOut? Could it be possible that they can't release the Astonishing material on a live DVD because it was a RoadRunner-album?
Unless the band's contract with RR was VERY unusual, the fact that TA was released by Roadrunner would have nothing at all to do with IO releasing a live album or video containing some or all of the songs from TA. At the risk of going too deep into the minutiae of copyright law: Under normal circumstances, the only thing that the record company owns are the copyrights in the sound recordings contained on its releases. The songwriter(s), on the other hand, retain the musical composition copyrights. If someone wants to record and release a live performance of, e.g., The Gift of Music, that person will need a license from the writers of that song (JP and JR) or the publishing entity to whom the songwriters have assigned their rights. No license is needed from RR. On the other hand, if someone wanted to sample a clip from The Gift of Music, licenses would be needed from both JP/JR/their publishing entities and RR.
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I have no problem whatsoever with a band having a no pics/video policy, and I can't imagine getting bent out of shape over it as a fan.
Well a band can do whatever the hell they want, right. I can understand them (not pointing this at DT, but as a general statement) not wanting to be filmed, but a no pic policy, to me, makes me nuts. At the end of the day, a fan wants their own little souvenir, and maybe they don't want to pay $40 for a shirt. hell, they already paid $65+ to get in in the first place.
Having cell phones at shows, frankly , is part of the fan experience now. I'm a fogey, and even I understand that.
Well, then I think you are forgetting that a LOT of bands and venues had similar policies in the '80s. This isn't some new thing. Notwithstanding all those great shots you have from shows, there's a reason your camera probably smelled of crotch, and that the bulge in your pants during the security patdown at the doors wasn't because you were happy to see the guards.
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I have no problem whatsoever with a band having a no pics/video policy, and I can't imagine getting bent out of shape over it as a fan.
Well a band can do whatever the hell they want, right. I can understand them (not pointing this at DT, but as a general statement) not wanting to be filmed, but a no pic policy, to me, makes me nuts. At the end of the day, a fan wants their own little souvenir, and maybe they don't want to pay $40 for a shirt. hell, they already paid $65+ to get in in the first place.
Having cell phones at shows, frankly , is part of the fan experience now. I'm a fogey, and even I understand that.
Well, then I think you are forgetting that a LOT of bands and venues had similar policies in the '80s. This isn't some new thing. Notwithstanding all those great shots you have from shows, there's a reason your camera probably smelled of crotch, and that the bulge in your pants during the security patdown at the doors wasn't because you were happy to see the guards.
:lol
True on both accounts. there's a reason they wore gloves at the PhotoMat.
On point though...I just think the world changes. The only place in the 80's you could get pictures of a band was a magazine that had to pay the band for the pictures. But these days, that horse has long left the barn, no? I just think that bands should recognize that taking a picture at a concert you go to is a neat thing for a fan. Especially with social media and whatnot. To me, it's free pub. What is it really costing the band to allow that?
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:lol I hear you. I'm not arguing against pics at shows per se. I'm just saying that if that is what bands want, I get it. Personally, I have mixed feelings. I don't take pics at shows anymore, but I get why others do. Heck, at another DT show where the venue tried to ban phones (but the band didn't, as far as I know), I was helping out a girl up against the barrier who was taking video by bird-dogging the roving security guy for her. But if bands don't want their stuff getting out because they don't want to ruin the surprise, they don't feel phone vids on YouTube provide a good representation of the live setting, or they just think it's more respectful to the fans trying to watch the show to not have someone's phone shoved in their line of sight while people take 30 minute videos, I get it, and I support that as well.
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Especially with social media and whatnot. To me, it's free pub. What is it really costing the band to allow that?
I think a lot of newer younger bands understand this value. It's a generational thing IMO. Most younger bands have a stronger and more interactive social media presence and have accepted that this is what it is. You can't take the phones out of peoples hands who were born with them there essentially (well you can, but that causes the uproar). If you can't beat em, join em and use them to your advantage.
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On topic, I think TAC needs to change his profile personal text to "My camera smells of crotch"
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Or "Gagging PhotoMat techs since 1982."
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:lol
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How do we know his crotch doesn't smell like camera?? :justjen
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I'd post my..um...link, but it says right in the title that I can't!
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I don't think that's what "hot link" means, TAC.
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Ahh..gotcha. :tup
:lol
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Like somebody said earlier in this thread. They may be hesitant to release this show if JLB had a bad night. I'd still buy it anyway because I like JLB if he's spot on or not. As long as it is not as bad as Chaos in Motion, we should be ok.. :facepalm:
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Missed the HK video before it got snipped, but I'm glad that the band might be considering doing something legitimate with the Wowo show beyond its initial Japanese broadcast. If they don't, bootlegs will likely get out there one way or another eventually, but I'd prefer an "official-release-quality" product that the band benefits from too.
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I see this "pic at shows" thing like the Napster thing, something new that comes along and takes some time to get adjusted to. Metallica sued Napster, Iron Maiden in 2003 when premiering a new song at shows said "Record it, upload it, do whatever you want with it, we don't care, just buy the album when it comes out if you like the song".
Same things with pics, I respect the band's desire in this sense, and I get their frustration "Are you even listening to the song and enjoying yourself or are you just showing off to your friends at home that you're at a show???", but there are also people like me who are amateur photographers and like to have decent memories of a show. Hell, it's no comparison to big bands like DT, but the little I've did as a photographer in the underground scene around me was thanks to pics taken and posted online and some bands eventually granting me to be in the photo pit at an outdoor gig or whatever.
As a lover of photography I also find ironic how in some places they don't want cameras, but accept phones. I went in Switzerland to see Wardruna and my camera was confiscated at the door. But people used cellphones, and the best ones have an absolutely great camera, and no one seemed to care.
I saw it reported here, probably, that James once at a show said something like "Hey, come on, I don't say 'Don't take pics', take three or four, but then enjoy the show and live in the moment". Like Maiden back in the 2003 this could be the way to go, acknowledge that the audience will do whatever they want, but politely make them think "Do you really need to take 700 pics of the show all the time???"
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I can appreciate a good quality Youtube audience video, but the amount of crap video's that gets put on there is ridiculous. I'm used to it now to see a dosen arms go up at a concert with a phone in them, but it used to piss me off to no end. My phone always takes crap pics at concerts, so I don't even bother anymore.
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I LOVE :heart a no phones at concerts policy. Its freaking awesome to watch a show standing on a floor without a million arms in the air taking video.
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Marillion always have their sound guy come out before a show to tell people not to use their phones, and everyone cheers. If you pull your phone out and film entire songs or concerts, you're ruining the show for everyone around you. Don't be that guy. We all paid the same ticket price, you don't have a right to ruin my experience so you can upload terrible quality videos to YouTube or brag to your indifferent friends on Facebook.
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I've said this in the past...
I used to be the guy who tried to record shit and / or take a bunch of photos during shows.
Now I just snap a photo or 2 before the lights go down, and maybe 4-5 fast photos during the show (Like Phone out, tap to focus, tap to take photo, phone back in pocket)
I cant stand people with their phones in the air the entire time.
The one exception was for Roger Waters last year, as my GF and I were literally in the far back nosebleeds with 3 rows behind us... but were up against the rail and basically would hold our phones down against the rail for photos. Worth It.
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I also don't get the filming a whole video thing. I had a friend who used to sneak in a camera in concerts and record whole songs. I honestly never understood why you would watch something on a screen, and a tiny one, when you can see it with your own eyes and unfiltered.
Anyways, Down here the crowd kind of controls the cell phone thing when it's a standing venue. If someone starts filming the people that are right behind will tell the person to put the phone down so they can see. If the person doesn't put the phone down a little bit of shoving will do the trick. Is it the best option? No, it's a bit "violent" but it usually works and doesn't escalate.
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Pics are fine. Videos...The only thing I like about people recording everything on their phone, is that you can see how overdubbed official releases are. Other than that I don't see the point, I don't find the videos fun to watch/listen to. It's akin to camcorder recordings of movies at the cinema
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I'm really surprised phones don't yet have a "concert mode". There's no reason why someone needs 4.7"-6"+ of screen real estate when trying to record a concert. I don't understand why the majority of the screen can't stay black while a 1"x1" square in the corner shows what's being filmed. It'd be a lot easier on the eyes of those behind the person filming.
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I'm really surprised phones don't yet have a "concert mode". There's no reason why someone needs 4.7"-6"+ of screen real estate when trying to record a concert. I don't understand why the majority of the screen can't stay black while a 1"x1" square in the corner shows what's being filmed. It'd be a lot easier on the eyes of those behind the person filming.
Man, this would be great.
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You know, it's possible to turn the light off on the screen to almost black. that's what I do during concerts. much less intrusive.. ;)
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You know, it's possible to turn the light off on the screen to almost black. that's what I do during concerts. much less intrusive.. ;)
Yea, as do I, but Chino's got a good idea. The screen natively still can't go completely dark while recording, which would be a nice feature and would help.
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If you pull your phone out and film entire songs or concerts, you're ruining the show for everyone around you. Don't be that guy. We all paid the same ticket price, you don't have a right to ruin my experience so you can upload terrible quality videos to YouTube or brag to your indifferent friends on Facebook.
How on earth is someone having their phone out ruining your concert experience? As long as they are not blocking your view of the stage, WTF do you care? They paid as much for their ticket as you did, and if they want to whip out their phone, so what?
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If you pull your phone out and film entire songs or concerts, you're ruining the show for everyone around you. Don't be that guy. We all paid the same ticket price, you don't have a right to ruin my experience so you can upload terrible quality videos to YouTube or brag to your indifferent friends on Facebook.
How on earth is someone having their phone out ruining your concert experience? As long as they are not blocking your view of the stage, WTF do you care? They paid as much for their ticket as you did, and if they want to whip out their phone, so what?
I see both sides. I mean, what you said, T, about blocking your view, is what usually happens. Or the brightness of the screen. If you're not at a GA show, and restricted to your seat, you can't go anywhere. So in that case, it is annoying. On the other side, yes, people buy a ticket, they should be able to enjoy the gig the way they want to...at least to a point. But how do you "legislate" that? You can't.
For example, if it is a band I really love, I tend to take four or five videos. But I do it in as non-obtrusive way that I can, looking around to see who is behind me. My screen's brightness is also all the way down. But for every person like me, there are 20 that just don't give a flying F. And those people are the problem. And that problem is increasing. I go to about 10 shows a year. The number of rude people with phones is multiplying like crazy at EVERY gig.
So, I get it. I wouldn't want my ability to record restricted, personally, because I make an effort not to be obstructive to people. As, I am sure, a bunch here do. Unfortunately, folks that fall into that category are getting less and less. Just not sure what the answer is. Banning phones is NOT the answer.
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I see this "pic at shows" thing like the Napster thing, something new that comes along and takes some time to get adjusted to. Metallica sued Napster, Iron Maiden in 2003 when premiering a new song at shows said "Record it, upload it, do whatever you want with it, we don't care, just buy the album when it comes out if you like the song".
Just came across this blabbermouth and reminded me of your comparison:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/anthraxs-scott-ian-on-finally-embracing-spotify-if-you-dont-adapt-then-you-dont-survive/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/anthraxs-scott-ian-on-finally-embracing-spotify-if-you-dont-adapt-then-you-dont-survive/)
"If you don't adapt, then you don't survive," he said. "It's evolution, and that's really what it is. And in the last few years, we've adapted and we've accepted what's going on in the world. You can't constantly fight a battle against things you're never going to win and have no control over. So you adapt and you accept it and you figure out, 'What's the best way this is gonna work for us? And how do we use this new tool to best represent ANTHRAX?'
I feel the camera policy is kind of similar. A lot of bands hate it, but they can't really stop it. Embracing it would be beneficial to both the band and the fans who want to use their cameras.
Let's also remember that many bands will put a copyright on a youtube video of their music, so they get any ad revenues. That's a benefit to the band similar to the small money they get from spotify.
The problem with pissing off other people by using your camera is a legit issue though.
I do it in as non-obtrusive way that I can, looking around to see who is behind me. My screen's brightness is also all the way down. But for every person like me, there are 20 that just don't give a flying F. And those people are the problem. And that problem is increasing.
Truth. There's a right and wrong way to do this and the wrong people greatly outweigh the people who are doing it in a respectful way.
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Just happen to be watching the Bruins game, and they just showed a shot of the B's bench, and...... :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: 3 people had their phones out!!!
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As a concert goer, I really don't give a toss about people around me filming the concert. Doesn't ruin anything about my concert experience to be honest, maybe during quiet/dark parts the light of screens can be a little bit intrusive but overall anything that happens on a stage completely dominates the venue visually. And personally I like watching vids on yt from past concerts. A lot of cool and unique moments get captured this way.
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If you pull your phone out and film entire songs or concerts, you're ruining the show for everyone around you. Don't be that guy. We all paid the same ticket price, you don't have a right to ruin my experience so you can upload terrible quality videos to YouTube or brag to your indifferent friends on Facebook.
How on earth is someone having their phone out ruining your concert experience? As long as they are not blocking your view of the stage, WTF do you care? They paid as much for their ticket as you did, and if they want to whip out their phone, so what?
If they are not blocking your view, you can be sure that they are blocking someone else's. And I don't think that someone else is enjoying getting his view blocked. People who film all the time during concert just show that they don't give a shit about other people behind them. Not only are they missing the concert themselves, they are ruining it for other people too.
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If you pull your phone out and film entire songs or concerts, you're ruining the show for everyone around you. Don't be that guy. We all paid the same ticket price, you don't have a right to ruin my experience so you can upload terrible quality videos to YouTube or brag to your indifferent friends on Facebook.
How on earth is someone having their phone out ruining your concert experience? As long as they are not blocking your view of the stage, WTF do you care? They paid as much for their ticket as you did, and if they want to whip out their phone, so what?
If they are not blocking your view, you can be sure that they are blocking someone else's. And I don't think that someone else is enjoying getting his view blocked. People who film all the time during concert just show that they don't give a shit about other people behind them. Not only are they missing the concert themselves, they are ruining it for other people too.
Agreed 100%. That should be common courtesy, and common sense..
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If you pull your phone out and film entire songs or concerts, you're ruining the show for everyone around you. Don't be that guy. We all paid the same ticket price, you don't have a right to ruin my experience so you can upload terrible quality videos to YouTube or brag to your indifferent friends on Facebook.
How on earth is someone having their phone out ruining your concert experience? As long as they are not blocking your view of the stage, WTF do you care? They paid as much for their ticket as you did, and if they want to whip out their phone, so what?
So because they paid as much for a ticket its cool there arm is over there head filming right in front of me?? That's the criteria? I think it blows.When I'm standing on a floor with 1000 people and a million arms are in over there heads filming you see lit up phone screens everywhere. It DOES ruin the experience as much as the moron in a dark movie theater playing on his phone instead of watching the movie. I applaud any artist who tries to implement a no phone policy.
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Plus the fact that many of these crappy videos are not just for that persons own consumption. People post this stuff on YouTube and then “fans” who don’t actually pay to see them jump all over James LaBrie and what a terrible live singer he is even though they’ve never actually seen the band live. If I was DT and saw the shit JLB gets as a result of these poor quality recordings, I wouldn’t allow it either.
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If I was DT and saw the shit JLB gets as a result of these poor quality recordings, I wouldn’t allow it either.
Wacken 15 wasn't a cell phone recording though ;) (Although I guess it's still an unauthorized rip of an unmixed live broadcast)
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Chaos In Motion and Once In A Livetime were official releases and I can’t listen to them due to the vocals so I’m not saying he’s perfect (although he has always ranged from good to great whenever I’ve seen them live). I’m just saying why let fans film the show on phones if they’re going to post it online and slate the band? If fans were respectful and/or kept their recordings private as their own memento of the show then it may be different.
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It's not that simple though..
Why not let people film properly and upload whatever they want so people that cannot pay a ticket to see them, or just can't (because they aren't always playing near you) are able to see it through the screen?.. Because, in the end, they're only doing that, and it can't be compared to seeing the real deal.. And, about the comments, you can always avoid the comments section (and the video, since you didn't "pay to see them" either so why would you watch it in the first place :lol)
It's the problem with free will... some rules might be fair for some, but unfair for others at the same time..
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If you pull your phone out and film entire songs or concerts, you're ruining the show for everyone around you. Don't be that guy. We all paid the same ticket price, you don't have a right to ruin my experience so you can upload terrible quality videos to YouTube or brag to your indifferent friends on Facebook.
How on earth is someone having their phone out ruining your concert experience? As long as they are not blocking your view of the stage, WTF do you care? They paid as much for their ticket as you did, and if they want to whip out their phone, so what?
So because they paid as much for a ticket its cool there arm is over there head filming right in front of me?? That's the criteria? I think it blows.When I'm standing on a floor with 1000 people and a million arms are in over there heads filming you see lit up phone screens everywhere. It DOES ruin the experience as much as the moron in a dark movie theater playing on his phone instead of watching the movie. I applaud any artist who tries to implement a no phone policy.
Who do you see concerts with, millipedes?
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If you pull your phone out and film entire songs or concerts, you're ruining the show for everyone around you. Don't be that guy. We all paid the same ticket price, you don't have a right to ruin my experience so you can upload terrible quality videos to YouTube or brag to your indifferent friends on Facebook.
How on earth is someone having their phone out ruining your concert experience? As long as they are not blocking your view of the stage, WTF do you care? They paid as much for their ticket as you did, and if they want to whip out their phone, so what?
So because they paid as much for a ticket its cool there arm is over there head filming right in front of me?? That's the criteria? I think it blows.When I'm standing on a floor with 1000 people and a million arms are in over there heads filming you see lit up phone screens everywhere. It DOES ruin the experience as much as the moron in a dark movie theater playing on his phone instead of watching the movie. I applaud any artist who tries to implement a no phone policy.
I am not condoning in any way anyone blocking your view. But just cuz they're there? Get over it. :P
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I think in all the concerts I've been to, not once, I have had the issues of having cell phones out throughout the show hindering my enjoyment of the shows. Mainly I was taking it all in the atmosphere and listening to the bands and not really care too much of what people do around me (thankfully, I have yet to go to a metal show, so I don't have to worry about looking out to avoid mosh pits).
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If you pull your phone out and film entire songs or concerts, you're ruining the show for everyone around you. Don't be that guy. We all paid the same ticket price, you don't have a right to ruin my experience so you can upload terrible quality videos to YouTube or brag to your indifferent friends on Facebook.
How on earth is someone having their phone out ruining your concert experience? As long as they are not blocking your view of the stage, WTF do you care? They paid as much for their ticket as you did, and if they want to whip out their phone, so what?
So because they paid as much for a ticket its cool there arm is over there head filming right in front of me?? That's the criteria? I think it blows.When I'm standing on a floor with 1000 people and a million arms are in over there heads filming you see lit up phone screens everywhere. It DOES ruin the experience as much as the moron in a dark movie theater playing on his phone instead of watching the movie. I applaud any artist who tries to implement a no phone policy.
Who do you see concerts with, millipedes?
Yes, and mostly Beatles tribute bands. :neverusethis:
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If you pull your phone out and film entire songs or concerts, you're ruining the show for everyone around you. Don't be that guy. We all paid the same ticket price, you don't have a right to ruin my experience so you can upload terrible quality videos to YouTube or brag to your indifferent friends on Facebook.
How on earth is someone having their phone out ruining your concert experience? As long as they are not blocking your view of the stage, WTF do you care? They paid as much for their ticket as you did, and if they want to whip out their phone, so what?
So because they paid as much for a ticket its cool there arm is over there head filming right in front of me?? That's the criteria? I think it blows.When I'm standing on a floor with 1000 people and a million arms are in over there heads filming you see lit up phone screens everywhere. It DOES ruin the experience as much as the moron in a dark movie theater playing on his phone instead of watching the movie. I applaud any artist who tries to implement a no phone policy.
I am not condoning in any way anyone blocking your view. But just cuz they're there? Get over it. :P
Just cause whats there? I'm confused? I mean why do I have to like a bunch of lit up phone screens?
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Tac, Tick, TAC, Tick...
toe
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I think I'm less in peoples way when taking photos than other times.
I clap my hands, wave them high, horns out etc.... when taking photos they are closer to my head.
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I remember on the Along For The Ride Tour, the show in Burnsville, MN where the venue had no policy on recording concerts or taking photos, and DT wasn't actively enforcing it on the tour, I was wearing a t-shirt with a pocket on it. I'm 6 ft 4 with my shoes on, so I was able to have my phone in the pocket with the camera part sticking out so I was able to record some songs on video. Midway through Illumination Theory, a security guy comes up by our aisle and tells me I'd best stop recording.
How the hell did he know I was recording! :lol
I remember reading that other shows on the tour were strict no photos or recordings even though DT was having a contest on their Facebook page for people to post the best Live Photos. The Astonishing Tour, I remember people getting yelled at for taking photos before the show of the stage and one guy even got kicked out, which I think is a tad bit rough. I mean, I get it, but to kick someone out before the show even begins! That seems extreme, now the guy is out whatever money he spent just for taking photos of an empty stage
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I remember on the Along For The Ride Tour, the show in Burnsville, MN where the venue had no policy on recording concerts or taking photos, and DT wasn't actively enforcing it on the tour, I was wearing a t-shirt with a pocket on it. I'm 6 ft 4 with my shoes on, so I was able to have my phone in the pocket with the camera part sticking out so I was able to record some songs on video. Midway through Illumination Theory, a security guy comes up by our aisle and tells me I'd best stop recording.
How the hell did he know I was recording! :lol
I remember reading that other shows on the tour were strict no photos or recordings even though DT was having a contest on their Facebook page for people to post the best Live Photos. The Astonishing Tour, I remember people getting yelled at for taking photos before the show of the stage and one guy even got kicked out, which I think is a tad bit rough. I mean, I get it, but to kick someone out before the show even begins! That seems extreme, now the guy is out whatever money he spent just for taking photos of an empty stage
He's obviously a time traveling member of this forum.
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(https://i.redditmedia.com/kJ4TBZJkgnBYzSs8xXGoC25gW3GQmb8Y0tgKkHzmN00.jpg?w=981&s=bde2c6922bc7f4aed51f152a2d16ef68)
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:lol
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Forum rules apply to this release. Please do not share, offer to share, or post about links. Further posts on that subject will be cause for banning from the forum.
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So, is this an official thing? I just did a quick search and didn't find anything.
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Yes. As I said here (and in following posts): https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=51176.msg2429740#msg2429740
I had also changed the thread title to reflect that as well. I thought it was explicit, but I will add a message into the original post to clarify as well. Please do not share.
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Thanks!
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Wow, that Budokan show is pretty bad. They'll have to pitch correct the hell out of it to release it. Just stay in your lane man, he may be able to hit higher notes in the studio, but he needs to make more adjustments live. Maybe not tour so much?
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Wow, that Budokan show is pretty bad. They'll have to pitch correct the hell out of it to release it. Just stay in your lane man, he may be able to hit higher notes in the studio, but he needs to make more adjustments live. Maybe not tour so much?
I think it would help him a lot if DT started to tour with an opening act again, so their sets would be a bit shorter and easier to get through each night.
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Wow, that Budokan show is pretty bad. They'll have to pitch correct the hell out of it to release it. Just stay in your lane man, he may be able to hit higher notes in the studio, but he needs to make more adjustments live. Maybe not tour so much?
I think it would help him a lot if DT started to tour with an opening act again, so their sets would be a bit shorter and easier to get through each night.
Or they could not and instead give us new instrumedlies, Stream of Consciousness, extended Beyond This Life, Finally Free with an extended outro, Octavarium with an obnoxiously long intro, Hell's Kitchen, Erotomania, and a 10 minute drum and keyboard solo.
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I think they need a support act to help build their audience. They aren't gaining new fans playing to the same people every tour. From a selfish perspective, I'd love to see more instrumental jams in their live show if they were to continue doing the evening with format. I feel like a lot of what Chino mentioned is a reason why I love the original Live at Budokan concert.
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I think they need a support act to help build their audience. They aren't gaining new fans playing to the same people every tour. From a selfish perspective, I'd love to see more instrumental jams in their live show if they were to continue doing the evening with format. I feel like a lot of what Chino mentioned is a reason why I love the original Live at Budokan concert.
Yeah I selfishly would like to see both. I'd like them to bring one opener out on the road to help draw more folks and I think this would be easy now given the roster on their new label. Tons of good options for openers that would fit while also drawing some of their own fans.
But at the same time, like cram and Chino, I love the instrumental songs, the extended jams, the solos (Live at Budokan style stuff). If they have an opener play for 30 minutes or so, they still be able to have long enough sets to do that stuff, but be a little less taxing on James.
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I think they need a support act to help build their audience. They aren't gaining new fans playing to the same people every tour. From a selfish perspective, I'd love to see more instrumental jams in their live show if they were to continue doing the evening with format. I feel like a lot of what Chino mentioned is a reason why I love the original Live at Budokan concert.
Yeah I selfishly would like to see both. I'd like them to bring one opener out on the road to help draw more folks and I think this would be easy now given the roster on their new label. Tons of good options for openers that would fit while also drawing some of their own fans.
But at the same time, like cram and Chino, I love the instrumental songs, the extended jams, the solos (Live at Budokan style stuff). If they have an opener play for 30 minutes or so, they still be able to have long enough sets to do that stuff, but be a little less taxing on James.
Well, medleys are definitely not going to happen anymore, since Petrucci doesn't like them (and I agree with him), and it's not like they have that many instrumental songs to add to every set from now on. The extended jams are cool every once in a while, but they can't do it for most songs on the show, it would get old very quickly.
On the other hand, now that they're with IO, there's a lot of cool bands they can take on tour as opening acts, like Fates Warning or Haken.
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I don't think the point is to add an extended jam for most every song...just some of them. It would really help give some variety to the otherwise static set lists not to mention it'd let James have more breaks.
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I won't be sharing links, but I did come across what appears to be the entire live show. The following info was attached:
"This is a pro-shot of the company WOWOW japan, the same was broadcast on television. It was rumored that DT was going to release an official DVD of this, but it was not what they expected after mixing and editing errors (Labrie's performance was ruined in almost its entirety with a badly applied autotune for example) among other things. It is difficult to get this because now it is just like an unofficial DVD of the bunch, but I have decided to share it with you so that it is not forgotten."
I wonder if there's any validity to the statement.
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There isn't. Wowow is a TV-channel, the production was only meant for japanese tv, never for distribution as a live album or dvd/bluray.
Yes, there is an audio issue with the vocal channel, where it sounds like it's out of phase. Hard to fix. It's not nearly as much pitch correction as people seem to think (you can compare it with the audience sourced bootleg that exists).
I have made DT aware that there is a certain amount of demand for it, and this is part of the reason why it's now not legal to share it - as they are planning to release it at some point. Unfortunately, such releases do take time, and while that happens we play "whack-a-mole" for those who upload the tv-recording.
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I know it takes time for them to release these things, but I wish they’d at least say something, since the whole thing is already out there and being shared by many people in social media.
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There's so much processing on that 2017 Japanese pro shot thing that James' is voice does not even sound human
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To be honest, if it’s substandard, I hope they don’t bother releasing it.
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To be honest, if it’s substandard, I hope they don’t bother releasing it.
I personally think it's awesome. I think the Japanese production company did a great job - they cut to some awesome shots from inside the crowd, which looks really great, as well as some cool HD non-gopro shots that look straight down from the rafters above Mangini, which is another cool angle that I don't think we've had before (not to my recollection at least). From what I've heard, some of the weird vocal parts just kind of sound like there's a chorus effect on James's voice (unless there's something really bad that I haven't heard yet), which actually gives off a cool sound in my opinion. Based on what I've seen so far, I like it better than LALP, but maybe just not as much as BTFW.
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To be honest, if it’s substandard, I hope they don’t bother releasing it.
I personally think it's awesome. I think the Japanese production company did a great job - they cut to some awesome shots from inside the crowd, which looks really great, as well as some cool HD non-gopro shots that look straight down from the rafters above Mangini, which is another cool angle that I don't think we've had before (not to my recollection at least). From what I've heard, some of the weird vocal parts just kind of sound like there's a chorus effect on James's voice (unless there's something really bad that I haven't heard yet), which actually gives off a cool sound in my opinion. Based on what I've seen so far, I like it better than LALP, but maybe just not as much as BTFW.
I do a lot of audio production and it definitely sounds to me like there's some heavily misapplied autotune going on... whether that was there live or in some kind of later processing, who knows, but something unnatural is going on. Though the last time James' voice sounded "natural" to me on a DT live DVD was the original Budokan show.
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To be honest, if it’s substandard, I hope they don’t bother releasing it.
I personally think it's awesome. I think the Japanese production company did a great job - they cut to some awesome shots from inside the crowd, which looks really great, as well as some cool HD non-gopro shots that look straight down from the rafters above Mangini, which is another cool angle that I don't think we've had before (not to my recollection at least). From what I've heard, some of the weird vocal parts just kind of sound like there's a chorus effect on James's voice (unless there's something really bad that I haven't heard yet), which actually gives off a cool sound in my opinion. Based on what I've seen so far, I like it better than LALP, but maybe just not as much as BTFW.
I do a lot of audio production and it definitely sounds to me like there's some heavily misapplied autotune going on... whether that was there live or in some kind of later processing, who knows, but something unnatural is going on. Though the last time James' voice sounded "natural" to me on a DT live DVD was the original Budokan show.
He did sound amazing on that video - maybe the best he's ever done. Although, I really like his vocals in Score too (especially Sacrificed Sons)
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To be honest, if it’s substandard, I hope they don’t bother releasing it.
I personally think it's awesome. I think the Japanese production company did a great job - they cut to some awesome shots from inside the crowd, which looks really great, as well as some cool HD non-gopro shots that look straight down from the rafters above Mangini, which is another cool angle that I don't think we've had before (not to my recollection at least). From what I've heard, some of the weird vocal parts just kind of sound like there's a chorus effect on James's voice (unless there's something really bad that I haven't heard yet), which actually gives off a cool sound in my opinion. Based on what I've seen so far, I like it better than LALP, but maybe just not as much as BTFW.
I do a lot of audio production and it definitely sounds to me like there's some heavily misapplied autotune going on... whether that was there live or in some kind of later processing, who knows, but something unnatural is going on. Though the last time James' voice sounded "natural" to me on a DT live DVD was the original Budokan show.
apparently the vocal track had a phasing issue when they recorded it, and thats the weird effect you hear on the video. I don't know how you would have an autotuner make a phaser effect like that....
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Judging in what I've seen/heard, it would kinda make sense to me that they choose to NOT release this for the following reason:
The vocals are weird, and JLB has already been in the hot spot for critics in the past few years (I mean, he has always been in that point but I feel that the nay-JLB-sayers have been going uphill ever since The Astonishing Live was going on). So, releasing (officially or unofficially) this would give them more reason to hate on him and it wouldn't be good to the band's image in any way.
I hear some of the lazy autotune work that has been mentioned, and that has nothing to do with the chorus-y effect that plagues the vocal tracks. It's really evident in a couple of the songs, and if this was the case this is really something to do with Chycki's mixing process. That's not cool in any way.
It's a shame, tho. The instrumental mix is incredible.
I know it's off-bounds to share or even discuss this material, but it's so out there and being constantly shared in my social media pages that I felt like I needed to say something about it haha.
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I know it's off-bounds to share or even discuss this material, but it's so out there and being constantly shared in my social media pages that I felt like I needed to say something about it haha.
I stumbled upon it and I wasn't even looking for it. I was just doing normal internet stuff.
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Yeah, it's a game of whack-a-mole at this point. We're reporting it as quickly as we see it, but it takes a few days (sometimes weeks) for the paperwork to completely go through...
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If ya’ll are talking about that batch of vids that has found it’s way to Youtube from when they played Budakon in 2017 then all I have to say about it is they look/sound great.
We all knew the sound was being tinkered with for when they aired it in Japan....not sure why it’s a surprise that JLB’s vocals were doctored a bit? I personally don’t think they sound nearly as ‘bad’ as a few of you insist....but I’m easily pleased and don’t nit pick that type of stuff.
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There's obviously some autotune on it--there are some phrases James always sings a bit flat (like "you won't find it HERE" at the end of Another Day) that are all right on pitch. But I do think there's a sort of phase effect on top of it as well--I don't really think the autotune itself is causing the weird sound, as noxon said.
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All I'm going to say is that whoever the production and film crew is they need to do DT's live releases. It's some of the best concert film around IMO.
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I wouldn't think that it warrants an official release. I don't know the setlist but many of the songs we're seeing online also appear on more recent live releases. If it did get released, it would seem a bit redundant. Plus, I believe the earlier releases are better in quality than the 2017 clips. Just my opinion though.
However, it could be a cool Ytse Jam bootleg.
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Yeah, it's a game of whack-a-mole at this point.
I know it's a bigger question than just for some random prog-metal band's televised concert, but is there a point this just becomes a losing battle and it's not worth it any longer?
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To be honest, if it’s substandard, I hope they don’t bother releasing it.
I personally think it's awesome. I think the Japanese production company did a great job - they cut to some awesome shots from inside the crowd, which looks really great, as well as some cool HD non-gopro shots that look straight down from the rafters above Mangini, which is another cool angle that I don't think we've had before (not to my recollection at least). From what I've heard, some of the weird vocal parts just kind of sound like there's a chorus effect on James's voice (unless there's something really bad that I haven't heard yet), which actually gives off a cool sound in my opinion. Based on what I've seen so far, I like it better than LALP, but maybe just not as much as BTFW.
I do a lot of audio production and it definitely sounds to me like there's some heavily misapplied autotune going on... whether that was there live or in some kind of later processing, who knows, but something unnatural is going on. Though the last time James' voice sounded "natural" to me on a DT live DVD was the original Budokan show.
apparently the vocal track had a phasing issue when they recorded it, and thats the weird effect you hear on the video. I don't know how you would have an autotuner make a phaser effect like that....
There's a shitton of processing going on, which could be a lot of things. If you listen to Take the Time, it really seems like an autotone correcting James to the wrong key, though... maybe he was just that off?
If ya’ll are talking about that batch of vids that has found it’s way to Youtube from when they played Budakon in 2017 then all I have to say about it is they look/sound great.
We all knew the sound was being tinkered with for when they aired it in Japan....not sure why it’s a surprise that JLB’s vocals were doctored a bit? I personally don’t think they sound nearly as ‘bad’ as a few of you insist....but I’m easily pleased and don’t nit pick that type of stuff.
The band sound good and the performance is good. James basically sounds like James has for the last 15 years, but there are definitely some isolated areas where something obviously went totally awry, and it sounds like it was processing in post that for whatever reason couldn't be undone or processing he has on his voice during their live shows.
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If ya’ll are talking about that batch of vids that has found it’s way to Youtube from when they played Budakon in 2017 then all I have to say about it is they look/sound great.
We all knew the sound was being tinkered with for when they aired it in Japan....not sure why it’s a surprise that JLB’s vocals were doctored a bit? I personally don’t think they sound nearly as ‘bad’ as a few of you insist....but I’m easily pleased and don’t nit pick that type of stuff.
Yeah, I'm working my way through these clips tonight (finally!). They are great. Great performances.
Would make an excellent Ytsejam DVD.
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Would make an excellent Ytsejam DVD.
In terms of quality, it would be the best from ytsejam videos.
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They seem to have an ear to the fans. Hopefully they understand everyone's interest.
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Oh, and for the record, I HATE the piped in background vocals, which is something DT has been doing on the last few tours. Hate it.
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Oh, and for the record, I HATE the piped in background vocals, which is something DT has been doing on the last few tours. Hate it.
I don't "hate" them, but they can be very annoying at times. We know JP can actually sing good backup, but on live releases he's always buried under the piped in vocals. A bit more of a "live" performance on that regard would be really good, but it seems it's not what they're going for.
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This video shows how Mangini would drum Hell's Kitchen given some time to practice. :p
And I think this show has possibly the best-sounding Breaking All Illusions version.
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Judging in what I've seen/heard, it would kinda make sense to me that they choose to NOT release this for the following reason:
The vocals are weird, and JLB has already been in the hot spot for critics in the past few years (I mean, he has always been in that point but I feel that the nay-JLB-sayers have been going uphill ever since The Astonishing Live was going on). So, releasing (officially or unofficially) this would give them more reason to hate on him and it wouldn't be good to the band's image in any way.
I hear some of the lazy autotune work that has been mentioned, and that has nothing to do with the chorus-y effect that plagues the vocal tracks. It's really evident in a couple of the songs, and if this was the case this is really something to do with Chycki's mixing process. That's not cool in any way.
I just watched it, and, probably because I just sat through the vids, enjoy them a lot and not putting a lot of attention to the sounding details, I didn't notice at all what you and others are saying about the vocals.. I mean, yeah, maybe if I see it again now I could hear it, but about your concern about the band's image and all that, I think hater's gonna hate.. If they don't release this officially then James' haters will complain anyway saying that they didn't do it to not be criticized for the poor performance of him, when we know that's bs, he was great..
I just tell my personal experience because I'd like to think it's how the average DT fan would be watching this show, just enjoying it for what it is.. I mean, I even happen to read the description informing about the vocal issues before watching it, but even so couldn't hear anything wrong with James' voice..
(fun fact - I actually know the guy who uploaded the videos, and his father is going to mix my band's new album)
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(fun fact - I actually know the guy who uploaded the videos, and his father is going to mix my band's new album)
Fun fact, ToT-147 is about to get a call from DT's lawyers regarding his knowledge of the person uploading these videos... :biggrin:
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(fun fact - I actually know the guy who uploaded the videos, and his father is going to mix my band's new album)
Fun fact, ToT-147 is about to get a call from DT's lawyers regarding his knowledge of the person uploading these videos... :biggrin:
:rollin
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There's a shitton of processing going on, which could be a lot of things. If you listen to Take the Time, it really seems like an autotone correcting James to the wrong key, though... maybe he was just that off?
Yeah. Wow. Sounds flat-out weird. The melody is all over the place, particularly before the first instrumental break, and you can clearly hear several notes being 'bent'.
The band does sound good, though, as others have said.
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Anyway, judging from what you can find and from my own personal experience at my show... is it just me or Breaking All Illusions is a perfect song for James to sing? he basically nails it every time.
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Anyway, judging from what you can find and from my own personal experience at my show... is it just me or Breaking All Illusions is a perfect song for James to sing? he basically nails it every time.
That should be the target for the current DT songs.
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Breaking all Illusions sounds fantastic as always! Just seems everything went perfect when creating that song. James loves to sing it (judging from his expression) and sounds great every time and the band obviously have a lot of fun with that song as well! For me it's always a highlight :metal
Still think it looks very funny when JP is "singing" the backup vocals :lol
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(fun fact - I actually know the guy who uploaded the videos, and his father is going to mix my band's new album)
That guy is going to have his youtube account blocked for multiple cases of copyright infringment very soon. Not even kidding.
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Yeah. Wow. Sounds flat-out weird. The melody is all over the place, particularly before the first instrumental break, and you can clearly hear several notes being 'bent'.
The band does sound good, though, as others have said.
You know, there is an audience sourced bootleg from this very same show, and you can sync it up to the audio of the released version. You should try it - you'll be surprised at how little is actually adjusted. For the most part, its exactly as it sounded on stage that night. Yes, there are sections that have been corrected, but not nearly as much as people claim to hear. The vast majority of the thing people think is "autotune" is that bad phaser effect.
Here's two examples I prepared: https://dtnorway.com/asiam.mp3 or https://dtnorway.com/gift.mp3
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Anyway, judging from what you can find and from my own personal experience at my show... is it just me or Breaking All Illusions is a perfect song for James to sing? he basically nails it every time.
That should be the target for the current DT songs.
I wouldn't mind at all. Not having BAI copycats songs of course, but have songs that require that kind of vocal range and expression, and of course also emotion.
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Here is a thing from a simple listener. I am not a autotune expert or anything like that.
There are clips fanmade and James's vocals seem OK and powerful to me (not great for sure) but in these *videos* James's voice is flat and was thinned by autotune or whatever this post production it is. Sounds completely unnatural.
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(fun fact - I actually know the guy who uploaded the videos, and his father is going to mix my band's new album)
That guy is going to have his youtube account blocked for multiple cases of copyright infringment very soon. Not even kidding.
I do wonder if youtube will count all of the videos as one strike though. Either way, I would expect the videos to be down if you guys reported it. Surprised it's taking so long though.
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Yeah. Wow. Sounds flat-out weird. The melody is all over the place, particularly before the first instrumental break, and you can clearly hear several notes being 'bent'.
The band does sound good, though, as others have said.
You know, there is an audience sourced bootleg from this very same show, and you can sync it up to the audio of the released version. You should try it - you'll be surprised at how little is actually adjusted. For the most part, its exactly as it sounded on stage that night. Yes, there are sections that have been corrected, but not nearly as much as people claim to hear. The vast majority of the thing people think is "autotune" is that bad phaser effect.
Here's two examples I prepared: https://dtnorway.com/asiam.mp3 or https://dtnorway.com/gift.mp3
I don't know if that first part of Take the Time was sung weirdly or was the result of the issues alluded to. What I do know is that it sounds awful.
These two examples you posted, are they from the audience boot? There's either an enormous amount of reverb on James' voice or there was a terrible echo in the arena. Sounded like it was only affecting James, though, so I presume it's reverb applied to his vocals.
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I was pointed to this video, and now trying to understand the context of the comments here. To maybe point out the obvious, we all know that James was unable to sing TTT on that tour, correct? One can try to have autotune repair certain things, but at some point autotune can't guess anymore what the note was supposed to be, and you end up with it locking the notes into various weird places.
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I was pointed to this video, and now trying to understand the context of the comments here. To maybe point out the obvious, we all know that James was unable to sing TTT on that tour, correct? One can try to have autotune repair certain things, but at some point autotune can't guess anymore what the note was supposed to be, and you end up with it locking the notes into various weird places.
Maybe live. But studio? The person manually changing pitches can very much know what the note is supposed to be.
Doesn't mean it sounds good or natural.
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I think that is probably the problem. You can't have it sound like Jay-Z either, so there's a limit to how much you can adjust the notes before it becomes brutally obvious. The production value of the rest of the video is so high, I think they did their absolute best working on the vocals but had to concede there's only so much you can do.
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I believe that James has quite a bit of processing already on his voice before it goes to the soundboard and then the arena. This makes additionally processing of his voice - say for a live release - particularly challenging, as so many production decision have already been made and can't be undone.
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Here is a handheld video of the song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW_VJVH2POA
I mean, the vocals *are* all over the place.
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These two examples you posted, are they from the audience boot? There's either an enormous amount of reverb on James' voice or there was a terrible echo in the arena. Sounded like it was only affecting James, though, so I presume it's reverb applied to his vocals.
I realize i forgot the description of what those are.
They're mono tracks of BOTH the audience bootleg and the videos for each ear. (i forget which ear is which). Yes, the audience boot has a lot of reverb, added to the fact that they're not PERFECTLY synced.
I'm not sure how take the time sounded on the audience bootleg - but when i get home i can do that sync too..
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Here is a handheld video of the song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW_VJVH2POA
I mean, the vocals *are* all over the place.
Oh, my.
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My overall thoughts - James definitely struggled on some songs. But, there certainly sounds like there are some processing/effects/auto-tune errors applied to his vocal track that make things worst, IMO. If DT could get the raw, clean, un-effected vocal channel recorded from the show, an engineer could certainly make the performance sound better. Auto-tune in certain spots, done in a correct manner, some EQ, compression, reverb, etc... and his vocal would be fine (considering the difficulty of the set).
The band sounded incredible. Great mix on the instruments, the drums and bass in particular sound huge, I really like the mix instrumentally.
DT should hire the film crew that shot and edited this for their next official release. Seriously. This thing is gorgeous, the shots are great, the angles are fantastic, the video quality is awesome. And the editing and camera shot choices are spot on. Better than the last couple official concert films DT has put out from a video quality perspective.
Oh and the guitar solo at the end of TTT is sooooooo good. That's a classic JP moment if I've ever seen one.
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Still think it looks very funny when JP is "singing" the backup vocals :lol
??? Why?
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Here is a handheld video of the song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW_VJVH2POA
I mean, the vocals *are* all over the place.
Man, disappointing.. DT is just so on fire lately playing-wise but JLB has been having a really rough time. It's really a shame. In PA during the Images show, during intermission, it was the first time I'd overheard people complaining about how JLB was sounding that night.
I love the dude so much but damn
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Still think it looks very funny when JP is "singing" the backup vocals :lol
??? Why?
Haha well I think it's that DT is so much about the instrumental performance and that most elements should be live so that the very obvious over-dubs that doesn't fit what I am seeing becomes strange. Doesn't matter ofc., just a bit like watching over-dubbed commercials where the mouth moves and something else comes out :)
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Here is a handheld video of the song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW_VJVH2POA
I mean, the vocals *are* all over the place.
Man, that's just bad. I love James's vocals in studio and can't imagine DT with anyone else, but live he's really really struggling, even after changing some of the vocal melodies and lowering the song a half step.
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Here's the take the time synced: https://dtnorway.com/ttt.mp3
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Not being disrespectful here, and I’ve always loved James’ vocals, but I think the consensus seems to be that James is the weakest link on DT. To me, he was amazing up untill their 2015 tour. After it, on TA live and the IAW anniversary is when he started to go downhill.
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I don't know that I would or could use "weakest link" to describe ANY member of this band. I don't really feel like that's a fair description.
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Still think it looks very funny when JP is "singing" the backup vocals :lol
I think it only looks funny to us because we know what Petrucci's voice is actually like. To the target audience, it just looks like DT have a badass backup vocalist :metal
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He is the weakest link because 1) it is a damn strong chain, 2) he has the most demanding work 3) his work is the most hampered by the passage of time and the subsequent degradation (don't like that word here but can't think of a better one) of the tools needed to perform his job, meaning his body.
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The real shame here is, is this now the second live DVD in a row that was axed? (This is with the assumption that they meant to film TA at the end of the tour)
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They never meant for it to be a DVD.
I have insistered they should.
They will probably release it now.
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Yeah, I have been leaning on them as well, so we have a two-pronged attack going. :lol But as far as being the "second live DVD in a row that was axed," that isn't really an accurate description. For The Astonishing, JP wanted to film and release it, but it never really got past the "we might do this" stage. And, as Noxon said, the Budokan show was never intended to be released, so it isn't really accurate to say that was "axed" either.
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He is the weakest link because 1) it is a damn strong chain, 2) he has the most demanding work 3) his work is the most hampered by the passage of time and the subsequent degradation (don't like that word here but can't think of a better one) of the tools needed to perform his job, meaning his body.
Yep, my thoughts as well.
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Using the videos and the audios I will try to synchronize them all
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And, as Noxon said, the Budokan show was never intended to be released, so it isn't really accurate to say that was "axed" either.
I'm not up to speed, what was the intent of this professional production, if not commercial release?
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And, as Noxon said, the Budokan show was never intended to be released, so it isn't really accurate to say that was "axed" either.
I'm not up to speed, what was the intent of this professional production, if not commercial release?
It was for a Japanese TV broadcast. An outside entity (I think it was either the tv station or a Japanese production company) commissioned the project for the tv broadcast. It wasn't really contemplated as something the band would take possession of or possibly release.
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. For The Astonishing, JP wanted to film and release it, but it never really got past the "we might do this" stage.
With the effort it took to put The Astonishing album together, as well as the live production, it seems crazy to me that they didn't film it. And I'm not coming at it as an "I want a DVD of the tour! wah wah" I would think that THEY would've wanted a DVD of the tour.
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I hope we get Don't Look Past Me as a bonus track for this somehow. I dunno if it was at any shows that were filmed, but it'd be really nice to finally have Don't Look Past Me on an official release that isn't a massive bugger to get a copy of. :)
I suppose there's always the option of an official bootleg or something if there's no official footage of it... Didn't James LaBrie and/or John Petrucci at one point say that they were looking into reviving the official bootlegs? The Astonishing tour, and the one or two songs that were swapped in and out of the set before/after the Budokan show was filmed, seem like the perfect opportunity for that. :biggrin:
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Don't want to start a new thread for a poll, but am curious... if this was officially released tomorrow, would you buy it?
I would say no, but largely due to issues unrelated to the band and my being a fan of theirs. That would make it the first official release of theirs of any kind in forever I did not buy right away (except for Chaos in Motion, because that was a pathetic product).
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I would get it, no question. But that probably isn't surprising.
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Yeah, I have been leaning on them as well, so we have a two-pronged attack going. :lol But as far as being the "second live DVD in a row that was axed," that isn't really an accurate description. For The Astonishing, JP wanted to film and release it, but it never really got past the "we might do this" stage. And, as Noxon said, the Budokan show was never intended to be released, so it isn't really accurate to say that was "axed" either.
Yea, I don't know if I read or heard anywhere that the possible TA DVD plans were axed due to JLB. I thought he sounded mostly great those shows, he struggled a bit with Lord Nefaryus parts. I think doing the I&W shows were much more difficult for JLB and the result we see is probably why the band questions releasing it or probably didn't plan to do a full on release from the tour.
I do really hope they have some quality video from TA tour that's just waiting to be released alongside the I&W show as a ytse jam release. But I will keep dreaming.
Don't want to start a new thread for a poll, but am curious... if this was officially released tomorrow, would you buy it?
Yea, I would. Visually it's up there with the best of DT videos and the sound is mostly really solid too. The first set also has the two TA songs that I'd have to have good video of (as I mentioned above).
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Maybe I was just lucky but JLB sounded amazing at the I&W show that I saw, couldn’t fault him at all which is amazing considering his age and that these songs are from 25 years ago. Yes he didn’t go for some of the really big notes in some of the early songs like Another Day and Take The Time but what he did was perfectly fine. From Metropolis onwards though he went for everything and sang those songs as they are on the record. The band also sounded incredible, Petrucci’s guitar sound was just amazing on the night.
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Don't want to start a new thread for a poll, but am curious... if this was officially released tomorrow, would you buy it?
That is a big yes from me, the last video release I bought was Score.
After seeing a couple of songs I immediately wanted to see the whole thing whereas seeing LALP and BTFW did nothing for me mainly because of how they were filmed.
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With the effort it took to put The Astonishing album together, as well as the live production, it seems crazy to me that they didn't film it. And I'm not coming at it as an "I want a DVD of the tour! wah wah" I would think that THEY would've wanted a DVD of the tour.
My feelings exactly.
It really seems odd to put so much into pre-production with all the storyboards and pre-visualizations and stuff, it's basically a movie, and to have what appears to be a "big budget" road show, not to mention just the pure time and effort it took to even get this project completed, only to then just fizzle out on a live version.
... not to mention the novelization and how much *that* took to get done (writer, writing, drafts, artwork, publishing, etc).
If I had a choice of a book or a live release of The Astonishing I'd have taken the live release and there could have been an hour-long documentary on the story where JP could have expanded on the story... OMG I HAD A THOUGHT... how about a commentary track where JP discusses the story as the show is going on? Or how about on-screen text talking about more in-depth story during the show?
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This is not taken from any actual Knowledge, its just assumption: i think JP had his eyes set on having a special show with choir and orchestra, and when the plans for that fell out, they didn’t have a backup plan. Added into the fact that dvd sales are really really poor, and the astonishing wasn’t a major success, putting up that show and filming it might not have been financially viable at all. A lot of the other stuff (video game, book, etc) was already signed for and paid for. Cancelling would only be sunk cost for them.
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much smaller bands like Neal Morse Band, Opeth etc put out live DVDs constantly. You just need a few cameras. I know the market has decreased a lot and Youtube makes it free, but DT should be able to ''afford'' it
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much smaller bands like Neal Morse Band, Opeth etc put out live DVDs constantly. You just need a few cameras. I know the market has decreased a lot and Youtube makes it free, but DT should be able to ''afford'' it
I'm sure they can afford it, but I also get the drive to not want to release something unless it's better than the last thing you released. Even as an amateur creator who only occasionally gets paid for any creative work I do outside my 9-5, I totally get that drive. As an artist, you want to show that you can surpass yourself, and you don't get anything out of cobbling together something just for the sake of collecting a check. If you look at the official things DT have released since MP left, it's very obvious to me that the days of "live album for the sake of live album" are over. Even though I haven't liked much of what they've done recently, the spirit of progression, and doing things that are bigger, better, and different than things done in the past is present. I don't know for certain that JP and the band ever wanted to release an official document of The Astonishing or the I&W tour, but it seems like if they did have the budget/capabilities to do a live release, there were other factors aside from purely financial ones that held them back from feeling great about doing so.
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Don't want to start a new thread for a poll, but am curious... if this was officially released tomorrow, would you buy it?
Yes. The visuals alone are worth it to me, the band mix instrumentally is killer, even if James' vocals got screwed up.
Now if they were able to get James' raw vocal signal and clean it up - this would be a must have, IMO.
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. For The Astonishing, JP wanted to film and release it, but it never really got past the "we might do this" stage.
With the effort it took to put The Astonishing album together, as well as the live production, it seems crazy to me that they didn't film it. And I'm not coming at it as an "I want a DVD of the tour! wah wah" I would think that THEY would've wanted a DVD of the tour.
Maybe the response wasn't what they were expecting for the album and tour so they had plans to film but pulled back that idea.
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Don't want to start a new thread for a poll, but am curious... if this was officially released tomorrow, would you buy it?
Absolutely, in a heartbeat.
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With the effort it took to put The Astonishing album together, as well as the live production, it seems crazy to me that they didn't film it. And I'm not coming at it as an "I want a DVD of the tour! wah wah" I would think that THEY would've wanted a DVD of the tour.
My feelings exactly.
It really seems odd to put so much into pre-production with all the storyboards and pre-visualizations and stuff, it's basically a movie, and to have what appears to be a "big budget" road show, not to mention just the pure time and effort it took to even get this project completed, only to then just fizzle out on a live version.
... not to mention the novelization and how much *that* took to get done (writer, writing, drafts, artwork, publishing, etc).
If I had a choice of a book or a live release of The Astonishing I'd have taken the live release and there could have been an hour-long documentary on the story where JP could have expanded on the story... OMG I HAD A THOUGHT... how about a commentary track where JP discusses the story as the show is going on? Or how about on-screen text talking about more in-depth story during the show?
My understanding is that DT pretty much had zero to do with the book or its release.
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This is not taken from any actual Knowledge, its just assumption: i think JP had his eyes set on having a special show with choir and orchestra, and when the plans for that fell out, they didn’t have a backup plan. Added into the fact that dvd sales are really really poor, and the astonishing wasn’t a major success, putting up that show and filming it might not have been financially viable at all. A lot of the other stuff (video game, book, etc) was already signed for and paid for. Cancelling would only be sunk cost for them.
What JP told me was fairly close to this, so yes.
much smaller bands like Neal Morse Band, Opeth etc put out live DVDs constantly. You just need a few cameras. I know the market has decreased a lot and Youtube makes it free, but DT should be able to ''afford'' it
I'm sure they can afford it, but I also get the drive to not want to release something unless it's better than the last thing you released. Even as an amateur creator who only occasionally gets paid for any creative work I do outside my 9-5, I totally get that drive. As an artist, you want to show that you can surpass yourself, and you don't get anything out of cobbling together something just for the sake of collecting a check. If you look at the official things DT have released since MP left, it's very obvious to me that the days of "live album for the sake of live album" are over. Even though I haven't liked much of what they've done recently, the spirit of progression, and doing things that are bigger, better, and different than things done in the past is present. I don't know for certain that JP and the band ever wanted to release an official document of The Astonishing or the I&W tour, but it seems like if they did have the budget/capabilities to do a live release, there were other factors aside from purely financial ones that held them back from feeling great about doing so.
Exactly. And for TA, they wanted it to be a high-quality job, which the album called for, and not just a few cameras in a small club. I love what a lot of other bands do in putting out live recordings on a budget. But that isn't what was called for if they did TA live.
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They never meant for it to be a DVD.
I have insistered they should.
They will probably release it now.
"insistered?" :lol
And how long ago was that?? Yea I've given up hope on this. Unless this is a "hey we are releasing a live album next month" thing, which so much is announced in advance, I don't see this happening with a new album on the way.
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Thats what happens when you quickly type something :P
I have been talking to them about it since march. Last week was the previous time it was brought up. So....
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Damn, James sounds pretty bad on this. on the DT12 tour he was more OK, but i think that during TA and I&W tours he was in a pretty bad shape.
Image quality seems amazing though i have to admit, maybe one of the best coming from DT.
Also, what is with JP using so much chorus on his tone (even distorted one)?
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This is not taken from any actual Knowledge, its just assumption: i think JP had his eyes set on having a special show with choir and orchestra, and when the plans for that fell out, they didn’t have a backup plan. Added into the fact that dvd sales are really really poor, and the astonishing wasn’t a major success, putting up that show and filming it might not have been financially viable at all. A lot of the other stuff (video game, book, etc) was already signed for and paid for. Cancelling would only be sunk cost for them.
The difference is that for me, "The Astonishing" would be much more interesting visually although I also understand that if sales have not been good they don't want to risk with a live release.
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Crowdfunding seems to be the most viable option for DVDs nowadays, but I get the feeling that JP and co. are old-school and would prefer to do it the traditional way. I mean, just look at their album-making process: they still book an actual studio for the sessions while many other bands record their parts at home or have their own HQ where they can handle the recording.
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I thought about crowdfunding as well - there was a Q&A during the tour last year where JP said that no one buys DVDs anymore but I think it's a real shame if they don't do anymore. I'd have no problem with them crowdfunding it and those who say they want it and would buy it can thus pre-order it.
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I thought about crowdfunding as well - there was a Q&A during the tour last year where JP said that no one buys DVDs anymore but I think it's a real shame if they don't do anymore. I'd have no problem with them crowdfunding it and those who say they want it and would buy it can thus pre-order it.
If thats the case, just put it on youtube through the official channel and turn on advertising to make some dough. Iron Maiden did this for their latest release, it was also a lower quality video than traditional so it worked well to do it that way.
Either way, I think a band like DT is too big to attempt a crowdfunding project. They have money from the label to do these things if it makes sense, and the sad reality is the last two tours it hasn't made sense I guess.
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Maybe I was just lucky but JLB sounded amazing at the I&W show that I saw, couldn’t fault him at all which is amazing considering his age and that these songs are from 25 years ago. Yes he didn’t go for some of the really big notes in some of the early songs like Another Day and Take The Time but what he did was perfectly fine. From Metropolis onwards though he went for everything and sang those songs as they are on the record. The band also sounded incredible, Petrucci’s guitar sound was just amazing on the night.
He was great at most of the shows I saw as well, but I wouldn't say he sang any of the I&W songs exactly like the record (and that's fine by me). I haven't heard the Budokan material but I can believe he was having a rough night and then if they had some other kind of effects making it even worse, sounds like it's an unfortunate situation all around. Maybe for something like that, if they really want to release it but can't do much with the vocals, they could use vocals from other shows. I dunno. Apparently on Fates Warning's live album, they didn't just pick the best band performance of each song, but the best band member performance - so you could have Ray's performance on song X being from one city and the drums on the same track being from another, etc. It would be harder to pull off for a video release vs just audio, but maybe there's something DT can do.
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Maybe I was just lucky but JLB sounded amazing at the I&W show that I saw, couldn’t fault him at all which is amazing considering his age and that these songs are from 25 years ago. Yes he didn’t go for some of the really big notes in some of the early songs like Another Day and Take The Time but what he did was perfectly fine. From Metropolis onwards though he went for everything and sang those songs as they are on the record. The band also sounded incredible, Petrucci’s guitar sound was just amazing on the night.
He was great at most of the shows I saw as well, but I wouldn't say he sang any of the I&W songs exactly like the record (and that's fine by me). I haven't heard the Budokan material but I can believe he was having a rough night and then if they had some other kind of effects making it even worse, sounds like it's an unfortunate situation all around. Maybe for something like that, if they really want to release it but can't do much with the vocals, they could use vocals from other shows. I dunno. Apparently on Fates Warning's live album, they didn't just pick the best band performance of each song, but the best band member performance - so you could have Ray's performance on song X being from one city and the drums on the same track being from another, etc. It would be harder to pull off for a video release vs just audio, but maybe there's something DT can do.
Wow, really? I hate when bands do stuff like that. It sucks all the magic and fun of it being 'live' right out of it when you know it's fully doctored like that. Guess I'll be giving that one a HARD pass. :(
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Blind Guardian did that with one of their songs from their 2003 Live album.
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(fun fact - I actually know the guy who uploaded the videos, and his father is going to mix my band's new album)
If his father is the guy who mixed the version of Behind The Veil that this guy has uploaded to his channel, get someone else to mix your album.
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Wow, really? I hate when bands do stuff like that. It sucks all the magic and fun of it being 'live' right out of it when you know it's fully doctored like that. Guess I'll be giving that one a HARD pass. :(
Ummmm.....it still IS live - just from another performance. Better that than fixing it all in the studio after the fact, like has been done to so many "classic" live albums, including DT's Live at the Marquee! IIRC, this is something that Rush did on A Show of Hands, Different Stages, or both releases.
And just to be clear, I think it was used sparingly on FW's live album (as I believe was also the case on the Rush album(s)) - note what Ray says about it:
"The idea was that a live album is basically supposed to be live and there's no overdubs. The way we did it was we picked the different cities, different songs in different cities and basically, we would pull, if I did a bad part somewhere, we would pull that from another show and put that in there. It's edited together, it's all live, but some of it's from different shows. I'm not perfect. [Laughs] That was the cool idea that we would pull back and forth between different takes. It's sort of like when you record an album in the studio, you do the song ten times, then you pull the best part out of each and do it that way. I don't know if everyone does it that way, but we do it that way sometimes."
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I couldn't imagine DT losing money on a dvd release. I think it's safe to say there are enough hard core fans that will buy any official release (including myself), so at least the band or the label won't take a loss. It would be a bummer if TA or IAWAB tours both did not get documented somehow..
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Wow, really? I hate when bands do stuff like that. It sucks all the magic and fun of it being 'live' right out of it when you know it's fully doctored like that. Guess I'll be giving that one a HARD pass. :(
Ummmm.....it still IS live - just from another performance. Better that than fixing it all in the studio after the fact, like has been done to so many "classic" live albums, including DT's Live at the Marquee! IIRC, this is something that Rush did on A Show of Hands, Different Stages, or both releases.
And just to be clear, I think it was used sparingly on FW's live album (as I believe was also the case on the Rush album(s)) - note what Ray says about it:
"The idea was that a live album is basically supposed to be live and there's no overdubs. The way we did it was we picked the different cities, different songs in different cities and basically, we would pull, if I did a bad part somewhere, we would pull that from another show and put that in there. It's edited together, it's all live, but some of it's from different shows. I'm not perfect. [Laughs] That was the cool idea that we would pull back and forth between different takes. It's sort of like when you record an album in the studio, you do the song ten times, then you pull the best part out of each and do it that way. I don't know if everyone does it that way, but we do it that way sometimes."
Ummmm..... I understand that. And I don't like it. Record the live performance and release it as is, don't pick and choose performances, then blend them into one track and call it live. That's not a real live track, it's a mishmash of cherry picked performances, it's pseudo-live. I know lots of bands do similar stuff, and I hate it. I also hate overdubbing. Record the freaking performance and then release it. That's all you should do. If your performance sucks, find a better show, or get better live.
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Wow, really? I hate when bands do stuff like that. It sucks all the magic and fun of it being 'live' right out of it when you know it's fully doctored like that. Guess I'll be giving that one a HARD pass. :(
Ummmm.....it still IS live - just from another performance. Better that than fixing it all in the studio after the fact, like has been done to so many "classic" live albums, including DT's Live at the Marquee! IIRC, this is something that Rush did on A Show of Hands, Different Stages, or both releases.
And just to be clear, I think it was used sparingly on FW's live album (as I believe was also the case on the Rush album(s)) - note what Ray says about it:
"The idea was that a live album is basically supposed to be live and there's no overdubs. The way we did it was we picked the different cities, different songs in different cities and basically, we would pull, if I did a bad part somewhere, we would pull that from another show and put that in there. It's edited together, it's all live, but some of it's from different shows. I'm not perfect. [Laughs] That was the cool idea that we would pull back and forth between different takes. It's sort of like when you record an album in the studio, you do the song ten times, then you pull the best part out of each and do it that way. I don't know if everyone does it that way, but we do it that way sometimes."
Ummmm..... I understand that. And I don't like it. Record the live performance and release it as is, don't pick and choose performances, then blend them into one track and call it live. That's not a real live track, it's a mishmash of cherry picked performances, it's pseudo-live. I know lots of bands do similar stuff, and I hate it. I also hate overdubbing. Record the freaking performance and then release it. That's all you should do. If your performance sucks, find a better show, or get better live.
If bands are playing the songs virtually note for note every night I see no issue with this at all. Is it cheating? Maybe, but no band is perfect live and if they can fix screw-ups in a way that isn't noticeable I don't mind it, as long as there's still live energy. That being said I only care about live stuff if it's different from studio anyway.
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My issue is with copying and pasting performances from other shows into the same song. So, yes, the parts are live, but if they're all cobbled together from different shows, it's not really live. Again, pseudo-live, and again, a personal peeve of mine (it annoys me to no end that Live At The Marquee was ruined for me when I found out James's voice was overdubbed big time in the studio). Plenty of bands released live shows without having to resort to such exhaustive means; curating the performances in such a way removes all the magic of live because you know it's not even a real show you're listening to, just someone cobbling parts together. That's just how I feel about it. It doesn't tell me the band is confident in their live shows when they resort to something like that. Again... just me. I don't care if there are flubs or it's not the 100% greatest live performance ever, but don't release something with live tracks that aren't actually the real thing and contain tracks from other shows.... if a concert is from September 12th in Poland, I want to hear what was played that night, damn it, not 80% of the song and 20% of it from a show the week before, that's stupid.
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I think the only way to see non-doctored live footage is to watch festival or TV broadcasts. NO-ONE releases live stuff that hasn't been 'fixed', simply for the fact that well... It sounds better, and no-one could possibly notice, if it's been done right. I have no idea why James admitted to the Live At Marquee thing, people would worship it if he hadn't said anything :lol
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Yeah, I mean, 'fixed' is acceptable within certain boundaries, for me personally. I'm not asking for an undoctored performance and for everyone to be flawless, but if, across the entire album, you're copying and pasting entire performances from various shows and putting them into one and releasing that, that's not something I would spend money on. I like live releases that are one single performance, which is why even with my complaints about James live, I enjoy the last two Blu-rays a LOT :biggrin:
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That's fine if you feel that way. I'm not going to try to persuade you otherwise. But a point of clarification on the LATM show: we don't know the extent of the overdubs on that recording. So to say that it was overdubbed "big time" is an assumption and may be WAY overstating what was done.
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That's fine if you feel that way. I'm not going to try to persuade you otherwise. But a point of clarification on the LATM show: we don't know the extent of the overdubs on that recording. So to say that it was overdubbed "big time" is an assumption and may be WAY overstating what was done.
I'm just going off literally what several people said here when I inquired about it recently, that was the general consensus, so yeah.
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it annoys me to no end that Live At The Marquee was ruined for me when I found out James's voice was overdubbed big time in the studio
So up until that point, you loved LatM? As much as I agree that it sucks that they did all the overdubbing of his vocals in the studio, don't focus on that!
Yeah, I mean, 'fixed' is acceptable within certain boundaries, for me personally. I'm not asking for an undoctored performance and for everyone to be flawless, but if, across the entire album, you're copying and pasting entire performances from various shows and putting them into one and releasing that, that's not something I would spend money on.
Well if you're upset about FW picking songs from different shows, both because of performance and because different songs were played on different nights, and they wanted everything on one live album, then so be it. Live shows compiled from numerous dates are not for you.
But as the quote from Ray I included in my last post said, it sounds like they only grabbed different performances of some of his vocals from other shows in certain spots where maybe his vocals were not up to snuff. That part sounds completely within the bounds that you claim to find acceptable.
That's fine if you feel that way. I'm not going to try to persuade you otherwise. But a point of clarification on the LATM show: we don't know the extent of the overdubs on that recording. So to say that it was overdubbed "big time" is an assumption and may be WAY overstating what was done.
Well, we may not know the actual percentage, but when MP jokingly said many years ago that it should've been called "Live at the Marquee with James live in the studio", I think the implication is that the majority (if not all of it) was redone in the studio. Probably shouldn't say this and ruin another DT release for Kattoelox, but I'm pretty sure a good portion of the vocals from the Uncovered show were redone in the studio too, altho I've never taken the time to do an A/B comparison between the official release and the soundboard boot that's in circulation.
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I think ya'll are making this a bigger issue than it is. I like my live releases very simple: one night, one concert, no cherrypicking performances from various concerts and slapping them together. If I learn about overdubbing, then it just depends on how much overdubbing was done, if it's noticeable, blah blah blah. I'm not some crusader who hates all live albums, but this is one reason I just do not listen to them a lot, because it does not strike me as authentic. I want that show in all its flubby goodness because it's live.
I still love LATM. But the magic of James's performance is ruined after learning it was overdubbed, since as you said, we don't know what was and wasn't. So how am I to know what was performed that night and what wasn't? Maybe some of those awesome moments, he was able to do multiple takes. I have no idea. It doesn't sound overdubbed to me, so it's a good editing job regardless, but again, it loses some magic.
And no, I don't like that they picked vocal lines to replace parts where maybe Ray wasn't up to snuff. Again, I want the flubs. IT'S LIVE!
Okay, back to your scheduled programming. Didn't mean to derail and cause a fuss. At least it's still better than Rhapsody's first DVD, which would cut out in the middle of a freaking song and then go to another! :) :)
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If we're on the topic of "what kind of live album would you love to see", I must honestly say that I would love it to NOT be a concert. Like, every live performance DVD of theirs has been an indoors concert recording. At some point it all starts looking the same.
While I'm not suggesting DT do exactly that, but for example Pink Floyd's "Live at Pompeii" or Sigur Ros' "Heima" would be a really nice change of pace. Hell, even them just hanging out in a small room, performing songs and a guy with a handheld camera walks around, would be really cool.
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(argh, phone editing)
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While I'm not suggesting DT do exactly that, but for example Pink Floyd's "Live at Pompeii" or Sigur Ros' "Heima" would be a really nice change of pace. Hell, even them just hanging out in a small room, performing songs and a guy with a handheld camera walks around, would be really cool.
Bonus DVD of the new album :metal
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If we're on the topic of "what kind of live album would you love to see", I must honestly say that I would love it to NOT be a concert. Like, every live performance DVD of theirs has been an indoors concert recording. At some point it all starts looking the same.
While I'm not suggesting DT do exactly that, but for example Pink Floyd's "Live at Pompeii" or Sigur Ros' "Heima" would be a really nice change of pace. Hell, even them just hanging out in a small room, performing songs and a guy with a handheld camera walks around, would be really cool.
Maybe DT live at the ancient theater in Plovdiv? :lol I don't know, option two of the small room sounds more unique and interesting at this point than some big production that everyone else does now. Rancid did something similar, a low budget band, with their newest album although it's not actually live, but them visually performing the album in a garage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkeApEWU8Pw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkeApEWU8Pw) I think DT could blow this out of the water with scenery more fitting (a garage fits the punk band) and with all the focus on each instrument at the right time, and even done actually live which I think DT could do well vs. Rancid.
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Wow, really? I hate when bands do stuff like that. It sucks all the magic and fun of it being 'live' right out of it when you know it's fully doctored like that. Guess I'll be giving that one a HARD pass. :(
Ummmm.....it still IS live - just from another performance. Better that than fixing it all in the studio after the fact, like has been done to so many "classic" live albums, including DT's Live at the Marquee! IIRC, this is something that Rush did on A Show of Hands, Different Stages, or both releases.
And just to be clear, I think it was used sparingly on FW's live album (as I believe was also the case on the Rush album(s)) - note what Ray says about it:
"The idea was that a live album is basically supposed to be live and there's no overdubs. The way we did it was we picked the different cities, different songs in different cities and basically, we would pull, if I did a bad part somewhere, we would pull that from another show and put that in there. It's edited together, it's all live, but some of it's from different shows. I'm not perfect. [Laughs] That was the cool idea that we would pull back and forth between different takes. It's sort of like when you record an album in the studio, you do the song ten times, then you pull the best part out of each and do it that way. I don't know if everyone does it that way, but we do it that way sometimes."
Hey Scotty. There's an audio interview with Ray (the one done by fanboys) where it sounds like it was more than just that. Maybe I should listen again just to make sure I understood correctly, but I believe he said that Jim listened to the individual tracks from each player, picked the best one, and put them together. Not that it was just Ray's vocals.
I'm not sure how I feel about the whole thing, to be honest. Unlike Kattelox, I don't need the whole show to be from one venue. If song A is from Athens and song B is from London, fine by me, and it would be cool to know which song is from which city. I don't care so much for the whole splicing approach described above though. I'd rather it be the whole band performance, whichever city is the best as a whole.
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Again this? How come *this thing* ruined LATM exprience knowing that James recorded it on the studio? There are many shows on youtube better than LATM's James performance. Knowing that James put godly vocal performances in that era I don't feel like I'm decieved by this lve CD.
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Again this? How come *this thing* ruined LATM exprience knowing that James recorded it on the studio? There are many shows on youtube better than LATM's James performance. Knowing that James put godly vocal performances in that era I don't feel like I'm decieved by this lve CD.
It's almost like you didn't read my explanation. It's not about his talents, it's about the authenticity of that night's performance.
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Hey Scotty. There's an audio interview with Ray (the one done by fanboys) where it sounds like it was more than just that. Maybe I should listen again just to make sure I understood correctly, but I believe he said that Jim listened to the individual tracks from each player, picked the best one, and put them together. Not that it was just Ray's vocals.
I didn't mean to imply that it was just Ray's vocals that might receive those fixes, although typically any aging vocalist singing older material is likely to be where the most corrections are needed. But if in fact Jim actually took whole performances of each instrument from different nights and put them together, then I stand corrected. That would be a bit too much fixing, IMO, but if that's the way it is, so be it.
In my perfect world, live albums would be taken from just one performance (or multiple nights only if different songs are played) with minimal fixes. But even if that is not the case, it still won't stop me from enjoying the album, so long as it still sounds like a real gig. A perfect example of where I feel this is not the case is Rush's Exit Stage Left. Despite the tracklisting, the fadeouts between almost every song, the abundance of tweaking the guys did in the studio after the fact and the flat mix all take away from me being able to really enjoy that album.
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Wow, to the contrary.. Rush's Exit Stage Left is probably my favorite release of theirs of all time. Just a great listen the whole way through. The version of Passge to Bangkok blows away the studio version on 2112..
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Again this? How come *this thing* ruined LATM exprience knowing that James recorded it on the studio? There are many shows on youtube better than LATM's James performance. Knowing that James put godly vocal performances in that era I don't feel like I'm decieved by this lve CD.
It's almost like you didn't read my explanation. It's not about his talents, it's about the authenticity of that night's performance.
Totally fair that you feel that way, of course. I do think it does change the equation a bit, though, when the performances are edited in a way that makes them obviously better than what the band ever sounded like vs. when one member (especially the singer, given the nature of singing) has an off night and you correct it to what was actually more typical for the live experience on the tour. LATM may not contain the vocals of the actual Marquee show, but it's a pretty accurate document of what 1993 Dream Theater shows were like (at least judging from bootlegs of the I&W tour).
I really feel like the best way out of the issues we're discussing with the Budokan show is the Metallica model. Set up a few cameras every show, record them all and put them out on YouTube. That way, anytime you have a good night, it's there. For instance, I saw DT's first show after Thanksgiving last year, and on five' days rest, James was very good. But that doesn't become the document of the tour, the Budokan show does, where he obviously struggled more.
The all-in-for-one-show thing is such a risk when you have a singer (or anyone else) susceptible to bad nights. I remember James commented on this regarding the original LaB DVD, where he said it was one of the worst nights he had on the ToT tour and the band really struggled with the decision whether or not to re-record or edit the vocals. And don't get me started on how the Universal City show from '07 would've made for a way better DVD than Chaos in Motion if it was professionally recorded.
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I really feel like the best way out of the issues we're discussing with the Budokan show is the Metallica model. Set up a few cameras every show, record them all and put them out on YouTube. That way, anytime you have a good night, it's there.
That would be the best model, by far. Only problem is, DT doesn't have the money Metallica does. Doing something like what you're talk about would be cost prohibitive for them ever night of a tour, even if on a smaller scale.
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I've always liked Umphrey's McGee's model and a lot of jam bands. They record the audio every night and are available for purchase. No clue why more bands don't do that. Can it be really that expensive to do? $10 for MP3 $12.95 for Lossless, $20 for Lossless and $20 for a CD copy
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I've always liked Umphrey's McGee's model and a lot of jam bands. They record the audio every night and are available for purchase. No clue why more bands don't do that. Can it be really that expensive to do? $10 for MP3 $12.95 for Lossless, $20 for Lossless and $20 for a CD copy
Red Hot Chili Peppers do that as well. I still think it's a bit expensive for a band like DT to do.
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I really feel like the best way out of the issues we're discussing with the Budokan show is the Metallica model. Set up a few cameras every show, record them all and put them out on YouTube. That way, anytime you have a good night, it's there.
That would be the best model, by far. Only problem is, DT doesn't have the money Metallica does. Doing something like what you're talk about would be cost prohibitive for them ever night of a tour, even if on a smaller scale.
If you don't mind my asking, what aspects of that model are so costly?
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If you don't mind my asking, what aspects of that model are so costly?
I think it would be renting or owning several video cameras, even if they are set up on tripods and don't need operators. Then you'd also need at least a few actual camera men to be moving around in the pit in front of the stage and on stage. You need at least one crewman to set up and maintain those cameras. You'll need all the addition equipment for recording all that video and audio, as well as needing huge amounts of storage space (assuming all the cameras are HD, or at this point, 4K). You'll need extra space to transport the cameras and equipment, and possibly the camera men, if they are touring with the band. If the camera men are just local guys, extra time would be needed to educate them properly on what they are expected to do for the show, etc.
Now, I haven't a clue as to what the cost would be, since I'm not in the industry, but I'm pretty sure that it ain't chump change. Actually, I'll check with BobS who is in the industry and could give us a ballpark figure...
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By and large, I agree with Kattoelox. A live album should be, well, live, mistakes and all, otherwise why not just record new versions in the studio and dub in some crowd noise? I realize that almost all bands do a fair amount of editing to their live albums, but it it definitely hard to think of it as really live when there is a ton of tweaking done after the fact.
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One of the issues these days is the prevalence of bootlegs. Breaking The Fourth Wall sounds so fake compared to the boot.
Some of the legendary Live albums literally have live in the studio full band versions of songs with dubbed in crowd noise (KISS Alive II, UFO's Strangers In The Night, Thin Lizzy's Live And Dangerous), and others (KISS Alive and Unleashed In the East) are basically rerecorded.
Genrally fixes are OK, and frankly, expected. But LIve albums should basically be just that, Live. The worst thing a band can do is lose trust from their fanbase.
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By and large, I agree with Kattoelox. A live album should be, well, live, mistakes and all, otherwise why not just record new versions in the studio and dub in some crowd noise? I realize that almost all bands do a fair amount of editing to their live albums, but it it definitely hard to think of it as really live when there is a ton of tweaking done after the fact.
I recall Michael Sweet of Stryper commented on this a couple years ago when they released a live album. He said he sang the wrong lyrics on one song but kept it that way because he was promising a live album and that’s what people were going to get. That’s the way to go, if you ask me.
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As much as I theoretically prefer the live videos to have no editing or correcting, it turns me off when someone's live video shows up and it's flawed, so much so that I sometimes pass on purchasing it or watching the whole thing. Maybe some perfecting is in order, but to rerecord or auto-tune big chunks of shows kind of loses me. On the other hand, I definitely respect the bands wanting to present us a quality release, so it's difficult.
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Leaving in little mistakes is fine but I don’t want something that doesn’t sound good. I never listen to OIALT or CIM live albums purely because the vocals are unlistenable for me (and I am a fan of JLB as my posting history will show). Warts and all live albums are all well and good but most important to me is that it’s something that I actually enjoy listening to and not wincing at mistakes and bum notes. I believe JLB actually re-recorded his vocals for the live album at the Marquee but it still sounds like a live album and I enjoy listening to it.
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If you don't mind my asking, what aspects of that model are so costly?
I think it would be renting or owning several video cameras, even if they are set up on tripods and don't need operators. Then you'd also need at least a few actual camera men to be moving around in the pit in front of the stage and on stage. You need at least one crewman to set up and maintain those cameras. You'll need all the addition equipment for recording all that video and audio, as well as needing huge amounts of storage space (assuming all the cameras are HD, or at this point, 4K). You'll need extra space to transport the cameras and equipment, and possibly the camera men, if they are touring with the band. If the camera men are just local guys, extra time would be needed to educate them properly on what they are expected to do for the show, etc.
Now, I haven't a clue as to what the cost would be, since I'm not in the industry, but I'm pretty sure that it ain't chump change. Actually, I'll check with BobS who is in the industry and could give us a ballpark figure...
I think the extra cost would depend on the tour. On some tours, they have a video screen as part of the tour production, and therefore travel with cameras that are set up on the guys already. For example, on the DT12 tour, they had the one large video screen as part of the backdrop. If memory serves correctly, they had one or two stationary cameras set up pointing at MM, and one camera in front of JP, JM, and JR. I believe they also had a camera set up by the sound/lighting board for shots of the stage and James in particular. So in that instance, they were already traveling with pretty much all the cameras they would need to do a bare minimum video editing job. So if they added in a couple external hard drives to store that info, they'd have everything they needed (we know they are recording all the audio channels every night any way).
So really, the only real "extra" expense would be a person's time to edit the video and give the audio tracks a decent EQ, mix, etc... But if they were decent quality, and they were posting those to YouTube on a consistent basis during a tour, they'd probably make that money back and then some by monetizing those vids.
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If you don't mind my asking, what aspects of that model are so costly?
I think it would be renting or owning several video cameras, even if they are set up on tripods and don't need operators. Then you'd also need at least a few actual camera men to be moving around in the pit in front of the stage and on stage. You need at least one crewman to set up and maintain those cameras. You'll need all the addition equipment for recording all that video and audio, as well as needing huge amounts of storage space (assuming all the cameras are HD, or at this point, 4K). You'll need extra space to transport the cameras and equipment, and possibly the camera men, if they are touring with the band. If the camera men are just local guys, extra time would be needed to educate them properly on what they are expected to do for the show, etc.
Now, I haven't a clue as to what the cost would be, since I'm not in the industry, but I'm pretty sure that it ain't chump change. Actually, I'll check with BobS who is in the industry and could give us a ballpark figure...
To do this would be a pretty big undertaking. In basic terms, it would be like shooting a DVD every night. I have worked with some bands that do stadium tours and feed screens so the crowd in the back can see whats going on. This requires a video crew that mostly work for union wage. To take that feed and make it available for viewing later you need a recording system to take that feed and encode it for distribution. On top of that the audio will need some form of mastering as coming right off the sound board is not usable for distribution. Ideally it requires a separate stage feed that allows a mix for distribution. Then you have to have access to an internet connection to upload it in a timely fashion every day.
Even if you used gopro type cameras that are stationary for iso shots and a wide camera at FOH with just a person to do the live edit would get boring after a while cutting to the exact same shot all show. Lastly, in the case of present day Dream Theater this would make zero sense to do as the band has stated that they prefer a show presented in a most consistent level of quality night to night. Offering a download of every show essentially would be the same performance on every copy other than the change of venue.
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I think the fact that James' rough nights are really rough these days would prevent them from doing this "instant gig" type of recording. There's been increasing amounts of overdubs on DT live releases over the years, and I think the reason why this Japanese video is so rough is because they couldn't overdub.
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I think the fact that James' rough nights are really rough these days would prevent them from doing this "instant gig" type of recording. There's been increasing amounts of overdubs on DT live releases over the years, and I think the reason why this Japanese video is so rough is because they couldn't overdub.
True. He will get non stop criticism which they don't need and if they aren't changing things up night to night, there's not much reason to make every show available.
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DT already records everything on stage in protools every night. As seen on the video we got from the band interviewing the FoH guy.
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I think the fact that James' rough nights are really rough these days would prevent them from doing this "instant gig" type of recording. There's been increasing amounts of overdubs on DT live releases over the years, and I think the reason why this Japanese video is so rough is because they couldn't overdub.
Then record them all but release the ones where everything went well. It's not like James never sounds good. A lot of the last leg of the IWB tour with the reworked melodies, he was pretty solid, for instance. If they even were to release the best 20% of the shows, monetized on YT, I think it would work well, or at least better than picking a show for pro release and then hoping everyone is good that night. At least aside from the cost, which does seem to present some complications based on what people have said above.
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I have actually wondered in the past whether James somehow went into some local studio on tour to overdub some of the passages for live DVDs. It only now occurred to me that since they play all shows with click, they can really just easily splice a performance from a good day into the DVD, with no work necessary.
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I have actually wondered in the past whether James somehow went into some local studio on tour to overdub some of the passages for live DVDs. It only now occurred to me that since they play all shows with click, they can really just easily splice a performance from a good day into the DVD, with no work necessary.
Would have to match up with the phrasing he had in the show though, at least for the parts where he's visible. Else it's just cringe material.
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No problem whatsoever, happened with BTFW. The initial trailer had them focus on JP during his solo but it then became apparent they had overdubbed the solo. So, the official release simply showed someone else during that moment.
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Sure, but for certain passages it's natural to focus on the singer, so it would be a pretty big limitation if everything was way off. And I've seen multiple DVDs where it's really sloppily edited in a way that makes the vocal overdubs obvious.
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I am personally in favour of ironing away the most glaring mistakes in live releases, as long as the release overall is representative of the general performance. Makes for a much better listening experience. However, if there were so many mistakes that it had to be rerecorded alltogether on many or even most parts, then maybe it is better to withhold release.
On the other hand, I am pretty sure some of the most legendary live albums were ssignificantly overdubbed. And I enjoy more "raw" studio versions because I feel very often a certain energy is lost when processed in the studios.
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As much as I theoretically prefer the live videos to have no editing or correcting, it turns me off when someone's live video shows up and it's flawed, so much so that I sometimes pass on purchasing it or watching the whole thing. Maybe some perfecting is in order, but to rerecord or auto-tune big chunks of shows kind of loses me. On the other hand, I definitely respect the bands wanting to present us a quality release, so it's difficult.
I like a few mistakes in my live releases but sometimes things have to be edited. Case in point check out that legendary PULSE Comfortably Numb solo that was show live on PPV. They cut a minute and a half out on the final film because David Gilmour screwed up so bad.
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The only way I see the show being released is through Ytsejam, or better yet an x-mas gift release.
I wonder, since they released Arriving Somewhere...on cd now, does it include the Trains incident where Steven breaks his guitar string. Its like Alice in Chains unplugged when Layne fucks up the lyrics and has to stop the song.
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As much as I theoretically prefer the live videos to have no editing or correcting, it turns me off when someone's live video shows up and it's flawed, so much so that I sometimes pass on purchasing it or watching the whole thing. Maybe some perfecting is in order, but to rerecord or auto-tune big chunks of shows kind of loses me. On the other hand, I definitely respect the bands wanting to present us a quality release, so it's difficult.
I like a few mistakes in my live releases but sometimes things have to be edited. Case in point check out that legendary PULSE Comfortably Numb solo that was show live on PPV. They cut a minute and a half out on the final film because David Gilmour screwed up so bad.
Wasn't aware of this, that solo on the Pulse cd is the single greatest guitar solo of all time for me.
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The guitar at the beginning of Score was not working, so they had to overdub that. That never bothered me, it made total sense.
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The guitar at the beginning of Score was not working, so they had to overdub that. That never bothered me, it made total sense.
It only quit working during Under a Glass Moon, in the section leading up to the solo. Maddi swapped guitars with him just in time for the solo. It was definitely a close call, but they did a great job of editing the DVD to where you never even know it happened.
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Pretty sure Jay Baskin was the guitar tech for Score (and Jake Bowen (Periphery and JPs nephew) was the keyboard tech)
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The guitar at the beginning of Score was not working, so they had to overdub that. That never bothered me, it made total sense.
You might be thinking of the keyboard rig going down at the beginning of the first Budokan show. :)
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As much as I theoretically prefer the live videos to have no editing or correcting, it turns me off when someone's live video shows up and it's flawed, so much so that I sometimes pass on purchasing it or watching the whole thing. Maybe some perfecting is in order, but to rerecord or auto-tune big chunks of shows kind of loses me. On the other hand, I definitely respect the bands wanting to present us a quality release, so it's difficult.
I like a few mistakes in my live releases but sometimes things have to be edited. Case in point check out that legendary PULSE Comfortably Numb solo that was show live on PPV. They cut a minute and a half out on the final film because David Gilmour screwed up so bad.
Wasn't aware of this, that solo on the Pulse cd is the single greatest guitar solo of all time for me.
The version on the cd is taken from another Earls Court show but the DVD version is edited. If you're ever board watch the whole Pulse concert on PPV, there is a great side-by-side on youtube. You can see the different camera angles and the mix is different (the guitars are much hotter in the mix)
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Pretty sure Jay Baskin was the guitar tech for Score (and Jake Bowen (Periphery and JPs nephew) was the keyboard tech)
Regardless of who the tech was, the rest of my post is accurate, as far as I know...
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The guitar at the beginning of Score was not working, so they had to overdub that. That never bothered me, it made total sense.
You might be thinking of the keyboard rig going down at the beginning of the first Budokan show. :)
The guitar however didn't work for 30 seconds in Under a Glass Moon
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The guitar at the beginning of Score was not working, so they had to overdub that. That never bothered me, it made total sense.
You might be thinking of the keyboard rig going down at the beginning of the first Budokan show. :)
The guitar however didn't work for 30 seconds in Under a Glass Moon
Correct. During Score. :)
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The guitar at the beginning of Score was not working, so they had to overdub that. That never bothered me, it made total sense.
You might be thinking of the keyboard rig going down at the beginning of the first Budokan show. :)
The guitar however didn't work for 30 seconds in Under a Glass Moon
Correct. During Score. :)
I was about 12 feet away from Petrucci at the show and somehow didn't notice the guitar go out.
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I have already asked that people not share or link to any postings of this show. As the rule clearly state:
2a. Sharing, requests for sharing, offers to share, or discussion of illegally obtaining pirated material is strictly prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to, warez, direct links, asking for links/files, and hinting at resources for finding the material.
This applies to ANY site that may have it. Offending posts have been deleted, but this is the last time I will warn on the subject. Further violations will result in being banned from the forum.
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In my opinion, the only things that should ever be edited on a live album are technical gremlins, i.e. mics giving up or guitarists breaking a string and having to "manage" for the rest of the song with what they have left or when certain instruments are too far down in the mix. Bad vocals and instrumental mess ups should be left in, as a "live album" is meant to be a record of what actually happened at the gig, not what happens in a studio a few weeks/months later.
If the vocals are that bad that they have to seriously edited and auto tuned, then the vocalist needs to either get better or leave, the same goes for any musician who messes up his playing, practice, get better or let someone else do it who CAN play live!.
If groups (and I know several do) feel that their live albums should be basically re-recorded in a studio, then they should at least be honest about it and state that on the back cover with all the credits, thanks etc.
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Different people want different things from a live album. I personally prefer absolutely no overdubs or edits at all. I want a document of the event exactly as it happened. I wasn't there, and listening to the live album is the next best thing.
Some people feel that a live album should represent the "ideal" performance. Every note, sung or played, should be perfect. Edit together the best performances from different nights, and overdub the rest. Basically a studio-perfect album but processed to simulate a live recording. The justification is that (a) some fans want this idealized performance and (b) some bands want to present this idealized performance.
Most people are somewhere in between, but honestly, that still baffles me. If it's edited at all, it's not live.
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If the vocals are that bad that they have to seriously edited and auto tuned, then the vocalist needs to either get better or leave....
I would agree with this, with the addition of the option of 1) Performing songs that are within the vocalists current capabilities and/or 2) Revising any vocal lines to suit the vocalist's current abilities. Some people will balk at this but I have no problem with it. While a vocalist can in some ways indeed get better, Father Time is undefeated when it comes to diminishing physical capabilities.
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Different people want different things from a live album. I personally prefer absolutely no overdubs or edits at all. I want a document of the event exactly as it happened. I wasn't there, and listening to the live album is the next best thing.
Some people feel that a live album should represent the "ideal" performance. Every note, sung or played, should be perfect. Edit together the best performances from different nights, and overdub the rest. Basically a studio-perfect album but processed to simulate a live recording. The justification is that (a) some fans want this idealized performance and (b) some bands want to present this idealized performance.
Most people are somewhere in between, but honestly, that still baffles me. If it's edited at all, it's not live.
I think some bands just aren't that great in terms of putting out a consistent live performance to be comfortable with a full release if it's not close to perfect. Maybe some bands just shouldn't be making live albums if it's going to essentially be redone in the studio.
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My issue is that, if they are going to release a live album/dvd, the band have a responsibility to ensure that it is a quality product as people are paying their hard earned money to buy it. I've no desire to spend Ł20.00 on a bluray or live album that is full of fuck ups that I will never watch again. If they have to do some studio trickery to fix it then so be it. If the people recording it have messed up JLB vocals then it's not fair to JLB to release it unless they are going to allow him to fix the vocals. I like live albums for the alternate versions of songs, extended solos, energy from the crowd etc. Doesn't have to an exact document of the show on that night. I still happily listen to Live At The Marquee even though the vocals were re-done in the studio by all accounts (although that is not ideally what I would want). Apart from OIALT and CIM, I have thoroughly enjoyed the other DT live releases although the looped crowd noise on LALP does sour me a little on that one, you can't unhear it once you've heard it.
Don't get me wrong, it can go too far. I remember waiting for a Bon Jovi live album for about 20 years and, when they finally released it, it was full of overdubs and sounded nothing like a live album. I had loads of great Bon Jovi bootlegs and they were a great live band but the official live album was a pile of shite. Live albums should still sound live and don't have to be perfect (the other DT live albums are not perfect) but they shouldn't sound awful either.
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Pretty sure Jay Baskin was the guitar tech for Score (and Jake Bowen (Periphery and JPs nephew) was the keyboard tech)
Hah, that's awesome, I didn't know Jake was a tech for DT.
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I don't mind overdubs or fixes to a live release so long as they aren't totally obvious. I remember on score there was a part where JLB took the mic away from his face but you could still clearly hear him holding out a note. It's a little thing for sure but it kind of takes you out the of moment.
That said, the minimal footage of this particular show I've seen looks so good I really don't care if they do any fixing or not.
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My issue is that, if they are going to release a live album/dvd, the band have a responsibility to ensure that it is a quality product as people are paying their hard earned money to buy it. I've no desire to spend Ł20.00 on a bluray or live album that is full of fuck ups that I will never watch again.
I totally understand that. I wouldn't want to spend money on a live release and find out it's full of fuck ups. But in general, I don't listen to bands that fuck up that much or that badly. DT has long been known for how artfully they reproduce things live. (Maybe that has changed?) Minor things like one spot where the guitarist messed something up or the vocals come in late, I'd actually rather hear that. It reminds me that it's live.
I like live albums for the alternate versions of songs, extended solos, energy from the crowd etc. Doesn't have to an exact document of the show on that night.
Same here. I guess an "exact document" isn't really necessary and perhaps is going a bit far. But again, how bad can the real thing be? If the band is simply not capable of playing a concert without fucking up so badly that they're embarrassed to release it, then maybe they shouldn't be releasing live material.
Most people here are younger than me, much younger. My concert-going days are basically behind me. I love live music and live performances of pretty much anything, but I can't justify spending a week's pay just to go, only to end up next to some idiot singing badly with every song or behind some asshole holding a cell phone in front of him (and me) all night. So live albums and concert videos are where I'm at these days. But shit like hearing vocals when the mike is nowhere near the singer's mouth, or hearing anything that contradicts what I'm seeing on screen, kills it for me, takes me completely out of it. For me, the authenticity of the performance far, far outweighs everything sounding perfect.
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Watched the majority of the concert again last night and I'll say this.....I'm SO friggin' glad that I apparently have horrible judgment or bad ears or something because I think it's pretty solid. Are there parts where JLB's vocals are definitely tweaked? Sure. But it's nowhere near as bad as it's being made out to be. The band mix sounds great (love JMX's mix/presence) and the performances are great.
i like the fact I can enjoy it for what it is and not be compelled to nit pick it to death.
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Is it really nit picking if it legitimately bothers some people? Seems like there's a fair number of people on both sides of the aisle here with respect to a particular part of the band.
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Is it really nit picking if it legitimately bothers some people? Seems like there's a fair number of people on both sides of the aisle here with respect to a particular part of the band.
I dont know. For me, my ears suck. I'm not a musician and my ears don't pick up a lot of things others notice. I found the vocals to be fine on this from what I've heard, but not the greatest and a few times a bit odd, but not like bad to ruin or bother me. But I have no idea what it sounds like to a trained ear that can pick up these things. Is it so noticeable that it ruins it? Maybe so.
I think the DT fan base has a lot more musically minded people than most bands and their fan base can pick up on these things much more than the average band fan base.
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Finally got a decent HD version of this... Audio is pretty standard, not bad at all but could be better... That 2013 fan club cd sounds much better than this for example...
Also i think the vocals are as good as it gets, there is no way to improving this...
Video editing is gold, although i spotted 2 edition mistakes, i think is the best edited show in DT history, you dont get to miss any JP or JR solo, all the camera shots are perfect, i wish DT had more shows like this out there...
Overall band performance is also impressive, totally spot on...
Does this worth an official release?, dont know, everybody have already seen the show so there is no the surprise factor... Also it really needs an audio remix and get those 2 editing errors fixed... Im guessing an official release would include extra stuff like a documentary etc etc... But at this point i would prefer they to release something we haven't watched yet...
This also could be a very good official bootleg, or be included as an extra in some box for future releases, but for it self i dont think it would deserve a release...
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My issue is that, if they are going to release a live album/dvd, the band have a responsibility to ensure that it is a quality product as people are paying their hard earned money to buy it. I've no desire to spend Ł20.00 on a bluray or live album that is full of fuck ups that I will never watch again. If they have to do some studio trickery to fix it then so be it. If the people recording it have messed up JLB vocals then it's not fair to JLB to release it unless they are going to allow him to fix the vocals. I like live albums for the alternate versions of songs, extended solos, energy from the crowd etc. Doesn't have to an exact document of the show on that night. I still happily listen to Live At The Marquee even though the vocals were re-done in the studio by all accounts (although that is not ideally what I would want). Apart from OIALT and CIM, I have thoroughly enjoyed the other DT live releases although the looped crowd noise on LALP does sour me a little on that one, you can't unhear it once you've heard it.
Don't get me wrong, it can go too far. I remember waiting for a Bon Jovi live album for about 20 years and, when they finally released it, it was full of overdubs and sounded nothing like a live album. I had loads of great Bon Jovi bootlegs and they were a great live band but the official live album was a pile of shite. Live albums should still sound live and don't have to be perfect (the other DT live albums are not perfect) but they shouldn't sound awful either.
And thats exactly the reason i love bootlegs so much... Live album are way to much over edited, pretty much all bands do the same thing (with some exceptions)...
DT early live album where pretty solid, but the latest live release have been pretty disappointing to me...
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That's how it is for me. If I actually feel like watching a DT live release (which admittedly doesn't happen all that often) I gravitate towards earlier releases. And it's not because James is stronger vocally or whatever, I think it's rather that later DT DVDs got very "sterile" for lack of a better word. They are flawless renditions of the songs, but they miss that "band feel".
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That's how it is for me. If I actually feel like watching a DT live release (which admittedly doesn't happen all that often) I gravitate towards earlier releases. And it's not because James is stronger vocally or whatever, I think it's rather that later DT DVDs got very "sterile" for lack of a better word. They are flawless renditions of the songs, but they miss that "band feel".
I thought DT did a pretty good job with that sound through SCORE. The releases after that felt very over-produced.
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My issue is that, if they are going to release a live album/dvd, the band have a responsibility to ensure that it is a quality product as people are paying their hard earned money to buy it. I've no desire to spend Ł20.00 on a bluray or live album that is full of fuck ups that I will never watch again.
I totally understand that. I wouldn't want to spend money on a live release and find out it's full of fuck ups. But in general, I don't listen to bands that fuck up that much or that badly. DT has long been known for how artfully they reproduce things live. (Maybe that has changed?) Minor things like one spot where the guitarist messed something up or the vocals come in late, I'd actually rather hear that. It reminds me that it's live.
I like live albums for the alternate versions of songs, extended solos, energy from the crowd etc. Doesn't have to an exact document of the show on that night.
Same here. I guess an "exact document" isn't really necessary and perhaps is going a bit far. But again, how bad can the real thing be? If the band is simply not capable of playing a concert without fucking up so badly that they're embarrassed to release it, then maybe they shouldn't be releasing live material.
Most people here are younger than me, much younger. My concert-going days are basically behind me. I love live music and live performances of pretty much anything, but I can't justify spending a week's pay just to go, only to end up next to some idiot singing badly with every song or behind some asshole holding a cell phone in front of him (and me) all night. So live albums and concert videos are where I'm at these days. But shit like hearing vocals when the mike is nowhere near the singer's mouth, or hearing anything that contradicts what I'm seeing on screen, kills it for me, takes me completely out of it. For me, the authenticity of the performance far, far outweighs everything sounding perfect.
Agree with all this, I have no issue with those type of minor things that you mentioned and I should say that I have not seen the leaked material from the tv broadcast so I don't know how bad the vocals sound. I know some people don't like his vocals on the original Budokan album/dvd but that sounds perfectly good to me. As I keep mentioning though OIALT and CIM were basically a waste of money for me as the vocals sound so bad that I will never listen to them again.
I also agree that, if a band cannot get a good live recording then don't release it and I said that earlier, I'd rather they did not release it if James sounds terrible on it for whatever reason. If you are going to though, you can't throw James under the bus just because the rest of the band sound great, if there are technical reasons for him sounding off. I will say again that it has always been my experience that DT (including James) have sounded superb live in person, I'm always amazed at how they are able to reproduce this stuff live. To release a poor sounding live dvd would not be representative of what they usually sound like and may harm their reputation as a brilliant live band. The issue they also have now is, if they do fix it, lots of people have seen the original version and will start putting up side by side comparisons. Certainly, as well, the sound and pictures should sync up if you're going to release as a dvd, don't want to see one thing and hear another, that does ruin the magic a little. I've never noticed this on any of the other DT dvds though.
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Is it really nit picking if it legitimately bothers some people? Seems like there's a fair number of people on both sides of the aisle here with respect to a particular part of the band.
‘Nit Pick’ may have been the wrong choice of words there. I was really just trying to say what Cram ended up saying. Although I listen to a ton of music and enjoy the heck out of it....my ears just aren’t as bothered by the tweaks as it seems to bother others.....and I’m glad for that as I’ve enjoyed near all the live releases from DT.
CiM being the exception. That may be their worst one. It had a very ‘thrown together’ feel.
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On the subject of fixing mistakes: Haken recently released a """"live"""" album that is so over produced and overdubbed that there's really no point in listening to it over the album (ofc the dvd is stellar and that is still worth watching).
Some things should be fixed to make the experience better but live should be live. You expect some mistakes and some audio issues, that's what gives it the charm. Neal Morse seems to execute this perfectly with his live albums and DT have some great examples too (LSFNY and OIALT come to mind).
Recently it's been a little too overdubbed and there's a trend of that occurring a lot in newer music releases.
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I think when it comes to fixing mistakes they should be done if there are technical difficulties. Part of the charm of a live album is feeling what was captured in the moment, otherwise dub some crowd noise over the album versions of songs and call it day.
If you're playing is such a mess than maybe try pasting songs across multiple recordings, or don't release live material at all.
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I think when it comes to fixing mistakes they should be done if there are technical difficulties. Part of the charm of a live album is feeling what was captured in the moment, otherwise dub some crowd noise over the album versions of songs and call it day.
If you're playing is such a mess than maybe try pasting songs across multiple recordings, or don't release live material at all.
Well, sometimes bands add fake crowd noise to actual live dvds too :P (looking at you, luna park - damn that lady that screams every 10 seconds in the audience loop ;))
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^^ Was there any fake crowd noise added in Breaking the Fourth Wall? I hope not, because I found that crowd noise there to be much more genuine than in Luna Park (which is odd since I was always under the impression that Argentinian crowds, in general, are very passionate, but I felt the crowd reactions was lacking in that DVD).
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To this day, I wonder what happened with the audience in Luna Park. It looks like nobody fed them for a week. Which is truly a shame, because Argentinian crowds have a reputation that can only be surpassed by Brazil or Chile. They should have filmed that DVD in Santiago.
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I remember an interview with Dio where he talked about dubbed live albums. He LOVED Rainbow On Stage cause it was a pretty straight forward live capture. On the flip side he hated Black Sabbath's Live Evil because it was so overproduced. I'm kinda torn, I love both of those albums so I guess that means I don't seem to mind the over production. :lol
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^^ Was there any fake crowd noise added in Breaking the Fourth Wall? I hope not, because I found that crowd noise there to be much more genuine than in Luna Park (which is odd since I was always under the impression that Argentinian crowds, in general, are very passionate, but I felt the crowd reactions was lacking in that DVD).
There is fake crowd noise in BTFW but I won't tell you where because it would be hard to unhear when you hear it.
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"Ignorance is bliss." For a long time, I didn't understand, or misunderstood, that expression. I thought it meant that it's easier to be happy if you're stupid. Or something like that. And I supposed that's a valid interpretation.
Relevance? Now that I think about it, it's not the fact that some live albums are overdubbed, edited, or otherwise "fixed". It's that I know about it. If no one ever told me that some of my favorite live albums had massive edits and overdubs, I'd be happy as hell. It's knowing that the lead vocals were overdubbed months later in the studio, or the guitar solo was actually edited from a different night, or anything like that, that's messes with my enjoyment of it.
And it can vary, too. I grew up blissfully ignorant regarding Kiss Alive! It seemed to me an incredible, perfectly-recorded live performance, and I suppose it helped that it was recorded in my home town, at the same hall where I once saw Rush. Somehow knowing that it was basically a studio creation doesn't hamper my enjoyment. It still sounds incredible, and when I listen to it, I'm 12 years old again listening to it in my buddy Jim's basement.
But it's basically the opposite with King Crimson's USA album. David Cross has two blistering, amazing violin solos on that album. The credits mention "remix assistance" by Eddie Jobson on those two tracks, but at the time I didn't know who Eddie Jobson was and didn't know what it meant. Turns out Eddie played those solos; Fripp added them later, in the studio. Now, when I listen to those same tracks, they sound exactly the same of course, but somehow knowing that those amazing solos were not actually played by the band I'm supposedly listening to kinda ruins it for me. Which is kinda dumb, I suppose. I loved them before, the only difference is that I know that that's not what was played that night.
Then you have outright Frankenstein works like Frank Zappa often did. Basic tracks recorded live, studio stuff added later, and I don't have a quote from him on the subject, but if I did, I'm sure it would be something like "If it sounds good, what the fuck difference does it make?" Heck, Frank took different parts from different songs, sometimes individual parts from different songs, and put them together to create entirely new compositions. My first Zappa album and still one of my faves, Sheik Yerbouti, is one of these. Mostly "studio-sounding", but with parts of songs that clearly were recorded live, and final track ends with Frank, obviously live, introducing the band, and you hear the audience, and the album ends feeling like a live album just ended. Maybe that works for me because Frank was very up-front about it. Every track has detailed liner notes, and has stuff like "Overdubs: Lots" and "Overdubs: None".
So... sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss I guess.
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To this day, I wonder what happened with the audience in Luna Park. It looks like nobody fed them for a week. Which is truly a shame, because Argentinian crowds have a reputation that can only be surpassed by Brazil or Chile. They should have filmed that DVD in Santiago.
Was it the audience or was their a huge screw up with the recording. I remember it came out soooo late, like ridiculously late. I seem to remember some comment maybe from JP’s wife saying something like if it wasn’t for JP, there wouldn’t have been any audio or something like that. I think that was a huge fuck up from start to finish. It’s not a well shot DVD at all although there are still some good versions of the songs. The canned crowd noise though is so badly done though and ridiculously obvious.
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I remember an interview with Dio where he talked about dubbed live albums. He LOVED Rainbow On Stage cause it was a pretty straight forward live capture. On the flip side he hated Black Sabbath's Live Evil because it was so overproduced. I'm kinda torn, I love both of those albums so I guess that means I don't seem to mind the over production. :lol
I have never warmed to Live Evil. Ever.
^^ Was there any fake crowd noise added in Breaking the Fourth Wall? I hope not, because I found that crowd noise there to be much more genuine than in Luna Park (which is odd since I was always under the impression that Argentinian crowds, in general, are very passionate, but I felt the crowd reactions was lacking in that DVD).
Holy crap, just listen to The Enemy Inside. I mean, Boston has always been pretty lively for DT. I don't know if the crowd noise is canned or actual, but it seems like it is definitely dropped in here and there. Honestly, I was there, and I really can't listen to it.
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^^ Was there any fake crowd noise added in Breaking the Fourth Wall? I hope not, because I found that crowd noise there to be much more genuine than in Luna Park (which is odd since I was always under the impression that Argentinian crowds, in general, are very passionate, but I felt the crowd reactions was lacking in that DVD).
There actually was. Not as in your face as in Luna Park (which sounds more like a "live in studio" thing, in my opinion), but unfortunately still fake.
I think when it comes to fixing mistakes they should be done if there are technical difficulties. Part of the charm of a live album is feeling what was captured in the moment, otherwise dub some crowd noise over the album versions of songs and call it day.
If you're playing is such a mess than maybe try pasting songs across multiple recordings, or don't release live material at all.
Well, sometimes bands add fake crowd noise to actual live dvds too :P (looking at you, luna park - damn that lady that screams every 10 seconds in the audience loop ;))
If you're referring to that female laugh in the left speaker, isn't that actually from Breaking the Fourth Wall?
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The biggest problem with looped crowd FX is when there's whistling. And when you notice it once it's hard to ignore it
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When I saw my first concert (Van Halen 2004), obviously I had only ever heard a live album, namely Van Halen's Live: Right Here Right Now. The looped crowd noise made me believe that people are always clapping and cheering at concerts, so I stood there like a dunce the whole concert clapping.
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When I saw my first concert (Van Halen 2004), obviously I had only ever heard a live album, namely Van Halen's Live: Right Here Right Now. The looped crowd noise made me believe that people are always clapping and cheering at concerts, so I stood there like a dunce the whole concert clapping.
I mean, personally, I feel like that's way better than standing there like a zombie with your phone out and not really taking in all of that sweet electricity and atmosphere in.
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:lol
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The biggest problem with looped crowd FX is when there's whistling. And when you notice it once it's hard to ignore it
I can't be as bad as Rush's 2112 on All The World's A Stage!
Terry Brown would have you believe that everyone spontaneously whistles every time the band stops for a beat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPpdZSOxp6k
(...about 40 seconds in)
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Sounds like they're playing to a flock of birds.
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The biggest problem with looped crowd FX is when there's whistling. And when you notice it once it's hard to ignore it
I can't be as bad as Rush's 2112 on All The World's A Stage!
Terry Brown would have you believe that everyone spontaneously whistles every time the band stops for a beat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPpdZSOxp6k
(...about 40 seconds in)
Geddy just had a stuffy nose.
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I could be wrong on this, but wasn't the Sax solo on OIALT (TAMP maybe?) recorded in the studio and just added to the song later?
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I could be wrong on this, but wasn't the Sax solo on OIALT (TAMP maybe?) recorded in the studio and just added to the song later?
Yep
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That just sounds... awful.
But that reminds me I have never listened to OiaLT all the way through, which is weird considering DT has been my favorite band since I&W and I've bought everything they've ever released (except CiM).
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Sorry. To clarify, it wasn't just randomly added to the song after the fact. It was a fix. They did have a sax player for the Rotterdam show. I'm guessing it didn't go well because they had Jay Beckenstein come in and redo it. :)
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They didn’t have a sax player at the OIALT show in Paris. It was just overdubbed. The worst part is that it was dubbed over a great Derek piano solo. Kinda shows the disrespect certain band members had for him. “Fuck our keyboard player’s solo. We’ll just put a saxophone over that.” If you listen you can hear it buried in the mix. There are bootlegs of that show, where you can hear it in full.
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They didn’t have a sax player at the OIALT show in Paris.
The fanclub show in Rotterdam a few nights before did have a sax player. TAMP and I think Hollow Years are from that show.
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Some stuff for the 5 Years In A Livetime video we’re from that show. Everything on the album is from the one Paris show. I’ve heard the bootleg of the full concert. No sax.
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The worst part is that it was dubbed over a great Derek piano solo. Kinda shows the disrespect certain band members had for him. “Fuck our keyboard player’s solo. We’ll just put a saxophone over that.” If you listen you can hear it buried in the mix. There are bootlegs of that show, where you can hear it in full.
Honestly, I don't think that was the case at all. Typically, TAMP had a guitar solo whenever the song was played live on Touring Into Infinity. The fact that they had saxophone included at the fanclub show in Rotterdam 3 days earlier suggests that they always intended to have saxophone on the track. What happened so that they opted not include any saxophone at the Paris show is unknown - perhaps Jay was supposed to join them and couldn't for whatever reason? maybe they realized the guy they intended to play saxophone wouldn't be able to cut it? And maybe they opted to have Derek just do something on the piano to fill out the sound a bit more during the solo section, knowing they would eventually have Jay add the sax after the fact in the studio.
Personally, I hate the fact that they did it that way (adding it in the studio) and wish they had left it as is. And to me it's gimmicky given that they had Jay reprise his role here and later also on LSFNY (altho at least that was live), but whatever. What's done is done, and while I don't like it, I don't think there was any ill intent against Derek as you're suggesting.
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That just sounds... awful.
But that reminds me I have never listened to OiaLT all the way through, which is weird considering DT has been my favorite band since I&W and I've bought everything they've ever released (except CiM).
Honestly, it works surprisingly well, and the OIAL CD is actually really awesome and well worth a purchase, I'd say.
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SAXAMAPHOOOOOOOOONE
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That just sounds... awful.
But that reminds me I have never listened to OiaLT all the way through, which is weird considering DT has been my favorite band since I&W and I've bought everything they've ever released (except CiM).
Honestly, it works surprisingly well, and the OIAL CD is actually really awesome and well worth a purchase, I'd say.
Listening to it now on Spotify. Derek sure has developed his keyboard sound over the past 20 years, he said sarcastically.
I don't like James much at all in this period, and I can't pinpoint why. I don't think it is because he is struggling, like he can nowadays. It's like he isn't sure how to sing the lines, for lack of any reasonably educated explanation.
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SAXAMAPHOOOOOOOOONE
May your new saxophone bring you years of D'OH!
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So I've been not very into DT as of recent, got hyped off the back of the DT14 youtube videos so I thought I'd come back here... saw this thread, what's going on with the live album? This thread is from November, but I've not seen anything about a live album through the official DT media streams?
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They're considering how to potentially have an official release for that, that's why the band doesn't want links about this material shared because there might be a time in the future when this can be officially released.
If and when that time will come, for now it's all under wraps.
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^^ Was there any fake crowd noise added in Breaking the Fourth Wall? I hope not, because I found that crowd noise there to be much more genuine than in Luna Park (which is odd since I was always under the impression that Argentinian crowds, in general, are very passionate, but I felt the crowd reactions was lacking in that DVD).
To this day, I wonder what happened with the audience in Luna Park. It looks like nobody fed them for a week. Which is truly a shame, because Argentinian crowds have a reputation that can only be surpassed by Brazil or Chile. They should have filmed that DVD in Santiago.
:facepalm:
I'm surprised no one corrected this.. We're indeed, along with those two countries, one of the loudest crowds in the world (don't even need to prove this, but here you can check what the yt's result list looks like when searching for "argentinian crowd" goo.gl/1QyZry).. About the DT show, I was there, as I was there for every show they played here since 2010, and can assure than in all of them (even in TA's show, which had that obvious different kind of ambient) we were really loud and genuinely surpring the band, like you'd never see on any other DT show at all (official dvd or bootleg)..
tl/dr: here you have a 6 minute vid that will give you an idea of what might have sounded the crowd if they wouldn't have so extremely turn us down in the LaLP release: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK7CSos2yVM
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To this day, I wonder what happened with the audience in Luna Park. It looks like nobody fed them for a week. Which is truly a shame, because Argentinian crowds have a reputation that can only be surpassed by Brazil or Chile. They should have filmed that DVD in Santiago.
I really can't stand crowds that overpower the band all the time. I want to hear the band, not thousands of people chanting and moaning and "singing" the instrumental parts of songs. I can't even watch R:30 because of this enormous distraction.
Any official releases of live shows would benefit from having an audio track with crowd noise on it and one without (or minimal) so everyone can be happy.
I think it's great how South America and Europe have this in their culture, and I'm sure if you're in the crowd it's way different, but when I want to hear a band play their songs that's what I want to hear. I'd even say go ahead and "sing" lyrics or cheer/applaud when it feels right, but when the crowd is trying to "sing" the guitar/bass/key/drums the entire time it's just too much.
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^^ I respectfully digress. Sometimes, a really energetic crowd can really make a live DVD release which is why Rush in Rio stands out to me the most of their modern DVD releases (that and the Clockwork Angels DVD, mainly for the strings ensemble). I love the idea of seeing and hearing a stadium going bonkers for basically anything the band does. You want to hear the band play the songs without the crowd getting too involved? That's fine. Maybe, DT should do something like do a 2.5 hour set in the studio all mic'ed up with no audiences and ready to play their songs live without any post-footage fiddling. That actually sounds cool and they should do that in the future and I would buy it, but anyway.
As cool as that idea I just mentioned sounds, hearing little or generic audience reactions and sounds to me just really defeats the purpose of watching a live concert DVD. I want to feel that crowd enthusiasm as much as I can to as if I was there in that moment. A dead sounding crowd for a DVD? No bueno for me. I think if you would ask any live touring band and for certain, they would love nothing more than if a crowd of their shows would go crazy for virtually anything and that band would want to share it for the world to see. Take this video, for instance, of Muse playing Plug-in Baby in a stadium in Rome, Italy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCUZSS54drI&ab_channel=Muse
I just love that 60k people are crazy for everything during that song. To me, that should be what every band should try to strive for in their live shows and if they are doing a DVD for a show, they should try to highlight that crowd enthusiasm the best they can (which to me was a big fatal flaw to DT's Luna Park DVD, despite a strong live performance).
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^^ I respectfully .......... .....try to highlight that crowd enthusiasm the best they can (which to me was a big fatal flaw to DT's Luna Park DVD, despite a strong live performance).
+1
It is exactly what I like about the Score DVD also. When TROAE kicks in. The buzz of the crowd energizes the song!
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To this day, I wonder what happened with the audience in Luna Park. It looks like nobody fed them for a week. Which is truly a shame, because Argentinian crowds have a reputation that can only be surpassed by Brazil or Chile. They should have filmed that DVD in Santiago.
I really can't stand crowds that overpower the band all the time. I want to hear the band, not thousands of people chanting and moaning and "singing" the instrumental parts of songs. I can't even watch R:30 because of this enormous distraction.
Any official releases of live shows would benefit from having an audio track with crowd noise on it and one without (or minimal) so everyone can be happy.
I think it's great how South America and Europe have this in their culture, and I'm sure if you're in the crowd it's way different, but when I want to hear a band play their songs that's what I want to hear. I'd even say go ahead and "sing" lyrics or cheer/applaud when it feels right, but when the crowd is trying to "sing" the guitar/bass/key/drums the entire time it's just too much.
I would say, listen to the studio versions if you don't want crowd noise.
Crowd noise is part of the show. To me, hearing or seeing a live album with very little or no crowd noise makes me think the crowd was bored to death and not into the show at all, which takes away from the overall aura. I am not saying I want the crowd to be so loud that they overpower the band, but they need to be heard (assuming they made noise and didn't sit there like statues at a prog rock concert :P).
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As long as it's real crowd noise, bring it on. I love Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio for that reason. It adds almost another layer to the music and brings it to life. But it's also great when you have a band like IM who have so many releases that you can get your less crowd noise live version and full on crazy crowd live version. Either way, my personal taste is to include the energy of the crowd in the live music.
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As long as it's real crowd noise, bring it on. I love Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio for that reason. It adds almost another layer to the music and brings it to life. But it's also great when you have a band like IM who have so many releases that you can get your less crowd noise live version and full on crazy crowd live version. Either way, my personal taste is to include the energy of the crowd in the live music.
There's something about RiR's mix though that it's almost a wall of sound to me.
Personally, this is why I always prefer Death On The Road. Love the band's mix much better, but the crowd is amazing.
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I agree with those who say natural crowd noise is part of the show. There's a Snarky Puppy concert from a few years ago in Argentina, and the crowd is on fire. The show would be great regardless, but you can feel even more energy than normal because of the audience, and it's mixed so that the band is not overpowered.
Fake or mixed-in crowd noise is annoying though particularly when it's done poorly, such as using the same clip multiple times or just repeating a loop...I hate that.
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I guess it depends on what you want from a live release. Crowd noise is bootleg quality IMO and I don't want to pay mega bucks for that. I want to hear the band play in professional quality sound and stereo.
And you can't get extended versions and solos in a studio release!
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And you can't get extended versions and solos in a studio release!
Well, you can. The band just needs to go into the studio and record the song and then stretch out the album version of the song and release it for the public to hear and there you go. It's an extended version.
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I knew this part was going to be ignored:
I'd even say go ahead and "sing" lyrics or cheer/applaud when it feels right, but when the crowd is trying to "sing" the guitar/bass/key/drums the entire time it's just too much.
... so stop telling me to just listen to the CD.
I want live sounds and ambiance and energy. I want that "in the moment" feeling go ahead an cheer, sing, clap, mosh, etc.
All I'm saying is that if you're trying to sing the opening lick to Breaking All Illusions, or Jordan's ragtime spot in The Dance of Eternity, or Myung's bass solo from Metropolis, then *that* is just too much and too silly. It's just as awful for me as having that jackass nearby who can't sing and doesn't even know the words to the song.
That's all it is. I want to hear the band. The live variations. All that stuff, but how can I do that when the crowd never|shuts|up? So, put in the actual live audio track with all the crowd noise, but also a toned-down version that doesn't drown out the band.
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I knew this part was going to be ignored:
I'd even say go ahead and "sing" lyrics or cheer/applaud when it feels right, but when the crowd is trying to "sing" the guitar/bass/key/drums the entire time it's just too much.
... so stop telling me to just listen to the CD.
I want live sounds and ambiance and energy. I want that "in the moment" feeling go ahead an cheer, sing, clap, mosh, etc.
All I'm saying is that if you're trying to sing the opening lick to Breaking All Illusions, or Jordan's ragtime spot in The Dance of Eternity, or Myung's bass solo from Metropolis, then *that* is just too much and too silly. It's just as awful for me as having that jackass nearby who can't sing and doesn't even know the words to the song.
Well, that's absolutely too. But on the other hand, stuff like the Metropolis reprise in Overture 1928 is mandatory to sing, if the full house doesn't go for it, it's a failure :D
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stuff like the Metropolis reprise in Overture 1928 is mandatory to sing, if the full house doesn't go for it, it's a failure :D
:lol Exactly..
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If this ever gets released, I wouldn't buy it unless it had MAJOR vocal pitch correction. Those I&W songs are hard to listen to.
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I knew this part was going to be ignored:
I'd even say go ahead and "sing" lyrics or cheer/applaud when it feels right, but when the crowd is trying to "sing" the guitar/bass/key/drums the entire time it's just too much.
... so stop telling me to just listen to the CD.
I want live sounds and ambiance and energy. I want that "in the moment" feeling go ahead an cheer, sing, clap, mosh, etc.
All I'm saying is that if you're trying to sing the opening lick to Breaking All Illusions, or Jordan's ragtime spot in The Dance of Eternity, or Myung's bass solo from Metropolis, then *that* is just too much and too silly. It's just as awful for me as having that jackass nearby who can't sing and doesn't even know the words to the song.
That's all it is. I want to hear the band. The live variations. All that stuff, but how can I do that when the crowd never|shuts|up? So, put in the actual live audio track with all the crowd noise, but also a toned-down version that doesn't drown out the band.
It isn't [band X]'s fault that you don't understand/appreciate the purpose of a live release.
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I'm calling BS on that bosk because I'm in full agreement with PetFish there. Him not wanting to hear every mong in the crowd try to prove their worthiness as a fan to everyone around them by singing every 13/8 drum fill audibly does not have anything to do with his 'understanding' (read that in the snarkiest possible way for full effect) of the purpose of a live release and that condescension is pretty uncalled for.
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Calling out faulty reasoning is not condescension. Calling out entire countries because you don't understand or appreciate their culture and, essentially saying, "those savages ruined my live experience with their singing and enthusiasm" is. Sorry you don't understand the difference.
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Calling out faulty reasoning is not condescension. Calling out entire countries because you don't understand or appreciate their culture and, essentially saying, "those savages ruined my live experience with their singing and enthusiasm" is. Sorry you don't understand the difference.
Two in a row. He didn't call them savages, either, and he wasn't attacking any country's culture. You're misrepresenting what he said and acting like a dick on top of it. Class.
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Calling out faulty reasoning is not condescension. Calling out entire countries because you don't understand or appreciate their culture and, essentially saying, "those savages ruined my live experience with their singing and enthusiasm" is. Sorry you don't understand the difference.
Two in a row. He didn't call them savages, either. You're misrepresenting what he said and acting like a dick on top of it. Class.
And you don't get to call people names or tell me how to run my house, so think about that during this week-long break.
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I get chills from hearing crowd participation. Check out Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio. Incredible. I agree someone trying to sing along to a drum fill is a bit much though.
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I would like to bring a touch of sophistication to the discussion stating a live album without strong crowd noises is like a porn movie without convincing moans.
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I get chills from hearing crowd participation. Check out Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio. Incredible. I agree someone trying to sing along to a drum fill is a bit much though.
Exactly.. But that kind of things are only audible when you are actually IN the show, not in the crowd mix of a live release.. At least *I* have never heard someone singing along fast sections in any band's CD/DVD at all..
I think you guys are talking about two very different things as if they were the same..
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I would like to bring a touch of sophistication to the discussion stating a live album without strong crowd noises is like a porn movie without convincing moans.
I get the analogy, but I always watch porn with the sound muted anyway. I have no interest in fake moaning and bad music.
I like hearing the crowd on a live recording, but not so loud that it's distracting or in any other way detracts from the music. The music has to come first, always.
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Bad music?.. Ok, it's clear that you do watch it with the sound muted.. :lol
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I get the analogy, but I always watch porn with the sound muted anyway. I have no interest in fake moaning and bad music.
You're missing out on some killer wah and flute *smile*
I agree, music comes first in live albums (who comes first in porn movies is a whole different conversation)
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Porn used to have music so bad and cliched that it was practically its own genre. If porn doesn't have music anymore, that can only be a plus. But truly, I have no idea.
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Porn used to have music so bad and cliched that it was practically its own genre. If porn doesn't have music anymore, that can only be a plus. But truly, I have no idea.
Well, in the name of honest scrupulous musical analysis, you leave me no choice but going back to examine the material ... *wink*
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:lol Yeah, like only 10% of today's porn would play music as background.. The rest is just moaning and silence..
Okay, back on topic now... we were talking about... Richard Chycki?, apparently..
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Richard Chycki says he's currently mixing a DT live album **DO NOT POST LINKS**
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I get chills from hearing crowd participation. Check out Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio. Incredible. I agree someone trying to sing along to a drum fill is a bit much though.
Exactly.. But that kind of things are only audible when you are actually IN the show, not in the crowd mix of a live release.. At least *I* have never heard someone singing along fast sections in any band's CD/DVD at all..
I think you guys are talking about two very different things as if they were the same..
I was just addressing something I read above. I agree though, two different things, the latter being something that never occurs on a live release.
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Just saw on social media yesterday someone posted the whole Budokon 2017 show. I only watched two songs because of limited data on my mobile phone, but it looked and sounded awesome from what I could tell. Hope this sees the light of day sometime soon. :coolio
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Any updates from those in the know about this possible release? I keep seeing copies pop up in different areas and have intentionally avoided them.
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Official updates, no.. But I've heard from certain sources that they will not release this officially... So I'd watch it if I were you, but to each their own..
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Funny, my sources say the opposite.
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C'mon DT, give the fans what they want - release it already!
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Funny, my sources say the opposite.
LOL! methinks noxon might be better connected than you ToT-147! :biggrin:
If they are planning to release it, I wonder if they're taking advantage of their time in the studio to fix mistakes in the original performance. With that tour being particularly challenging for JL, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the time he spends on recording vocals might be used to re-record some of his vocals for the live release.
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That's an interesting idea and would be a good reason for the delay on releasing it because IMO the more they wait, the less the interest will be in it. Especially with the never ending battle with the youtube uploads of it.
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Funny, my sources say the opposite.
LOL! methinks noxon might be better connected than you ToT-147! :biggrin:
If they are planning to release it, I wonder if they're taking advantage of their time in the studio to fix mistakes in the original performance. With that tour being particularly challenging for JL, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the time he spends on recording vocals might be used to re-record some of his vocals for the live release.
Interesting thought. They haven't really done much vocal touching up on most of their live releases. But I think they should if it ultimately improves the quality. Yeah, I know that touching up something as obvious as the lead vocals can make it feel like less of an "authentic" experience for many. But ultimately, I care much less about that than having a recording that has re-listenability and staying power in my play list.
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It's tough for the band, either they release it as is with people complaining about the vocals, or they touch it up and people complain about the touching up, or they dont release it at all and people complain about not releasing it.
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If they are planning to release it, I wonder if they're taking advantage of their time in the studio to fix mistakes in the original performance. With that tour being particularly challenging for JL, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the time he spends on recording vocals might be used to re-record some of his vocals for the live release.
That was my thought as well. That record was incredible difficult for James to do, and he while I think the majority of fans give him credit for doing his best, he's not going to want an official live release out there with the vocal quality that was shown on tour. It's not his fault, replicating the vocals on that material live on the road was a bitch in 1992, not to mention 2017. So, I hope that if JLB is doing some re-recording, it will only make things better. My gut feeling is, JLB will knock each of the tunes out of the park in the studio in a few takes. They may not have the stratospheric notes of back then, but a nice comp of live takes in the studio makes sense.
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I can allready see it. If the vocals are polished for a official release, the You-Tubers will be calling it out comparing it with the un-official leaks from the raw version. For me personally, I don't care. I agree with Bosk, I would rather it sound better with a good replay value and share-ability with friends that come over and watch it with me.
It wouldn't be fair to JLB if he had to be embarrassed about any cringeworthy moments. It needs his stamp of approval.
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It's such a shame the vocals are weak on this album, especially because it's visually beautiful and the band is on fire :(
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Funny, my sources say the opposite.
LOL! methinks noxon might be better connected than you ToT-147! :biggrin:
I'm definitely not better connected than him, but it seems that I might have some skills to make you guys tell us what you do know about this dvd.. :lol
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Funny, my sources say the opposite.
LOL! methinks noxon might be better connected than you ToT-147! :biggrin:
I'm definitely not better connected than him, but it seems that I might have some skills to make you guys tell us what you do know about this dvd.. :lol
You, sir, just won the Internet for today :hefdaddy :rollin
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That reminds me of a joke I saw recently. The way to find correct information on the Internet is not to ask, but to post incorrect information.
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:lol
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If they are planning to release it, I wonder if they're taking advantage of their time in the studio to fix mistakes in the original performance. With that tour being particularly challenging for JL, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the time he spends on recording vocals might be used to re-record some of his vocals for the live release.
That was my thought as well. That record was incredible difficult for James to do, and he while I think the majority of fans give him credit for doing his best, he's not going to want an official live release out there with the vocal quality that was shown on tour. It's not his fault, replicating the vocals on that material live on the road was a bitch in 1992, not to mention 2017. So, I hope that if JLB is doing some re-recording, it will only make things better. My gut feeling is, JLB will knock each of the tunes out of the park in the studio in a few takes. They may not have the stratospheric notes of back then, but a nice comp of live takes in the studio makes sense.
I have never understood this. People want it to be authentic and untouched so what - they can claim its legit then never listen to it again? I hate that they did not redo some of the worst vocals going back to Scenes from NY. Please James - redo everything if you have to!!!!
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The only 'win win' scenario is to have a new singer who CAN do it live. And hell, even that isn't a win win, really, because lots of people like James because he is, well... James. But nowadays it's either get a live release with terrible vocals (Chaos In Motion) or overdub the crap out of them so it's hardly live anyway (Marquee, potentially this one).
Can't win. Can't please everyone. Just hope they release a solid sounding product, that's what I'm hoping for. :)
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I just watched CIM and have a new appreciation for it. The vocals only sound bad on a small handful of songs, especially in parts of Surrounded. That's only because of the recording, not James' fault. Alot of the songs sound pretty good, epecially the ones in Vancouver (Ministry of Lost Souls comes to mind). ITPOE sounds pretty good throughout too.
It's too bad the vox don't sound good in Surrounded because that is such an awesome version of that song!
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Personally, I think it'd be really funny if they just troll the fans since it's a no win anyway.
Half (not really) the fans want an authentic live release with bad vocals.
Half (not really) the fans want a live release that is so perfect and pristine that it's not terribly different from the studio releases.
So why not just ditch all the live audio and sync up the original studio audio with live audience sounds mixed in. That'd be amazing.
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Or maybe just give us two releases, one original and one with some work added. Shit, anyone who wanted to see the original probably already has at this point so why not since like someone else said, the comparisons will be there if they release a fixed version. Maybe just embrace it.
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Don't DVDs have multiple audio tracks? I know Blu-rays do, for like Spanish or other languages. They could release the video with both original audio and "adjusted" audio, and people can listen to whichever they want.
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Don't DVDs have multiple audio tracks? I know Blu-rays do, for like Spanish or other languages. They could release the video with both original audio and "adjusted" audio, and people can listen to whichever they want.
...and a Spanish version with Jeff Scott Soto!
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Don't DVDs have multiple audio tracks? I know Blu-rays do, for like Spanish or other languages. They could release the video with both original audio and "adjusted" audio, and people can listen to whichever they want.
...and a Spanish version with Jeff Scott Soto!
Oh God, please don't bring that up again :facepalm:
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Don't DVDs have multiple audio tracks? I know Blu-rays do, for like Spanish or other languages. They could release the video with both original audio and "adjusted" audio, and people can listen to whichever they want.
Hey now... that's actually a fantastic idea, win-win!
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Don't DVDs have multiple audio tracks? I know Blu-rays do, for like Spanish or other languages. They could release the video with both original audio and "adjusted" audio, and people can listen to whichever they want.
I do think it's a great and innovative idea. Unfortunately, although everybody knows that the audio on almost every single live album/DVD is corrected at some level, it seems an unwritten rule that a band never can admit it officially. And by officially I mean in the booklet of the release or in the DVD's audio options. I'm not talking about admit it in interviews, which occurs a lot, by the way.
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It is a great idea really. And it would be nice for a band to embrace what happens on live recordings. Honestly it would be really refreshing and cool idea to make two tracks. We all have seen the band either live or on youtube, the raw footage. We are still here so it's not really fooling anyone. You could start a new trend for concerts dvd.
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Funny, my sources say the opposite.
LOL! methinks noxon might be better connected than you ToT-147! :biggrin:
If they are planning to release it, I wonder if they're taking advantage of their time in the studio to fix mistakes in the original performance. With that tour being particularly challenging for JL, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the time he spends on recording vocals might be used to re-record some of his vocals for the live release.
When ACOS appeared on YT, I compared it to an audience recording and noticed overdubs in some sections, so they must've done the fixing already (unless they're going to do more of it before the official release).
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Funny, my sources say the opposite.
LOL! methinks noxon might be better connected than you ToT-147! :biggrin:
If they are planning to release it, I wonder if they're taking advantage of their time in the studio to fix mistakes in the original performance. With that tour being particularly challenging for JL, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the time he spends on recording vocals might be used to re-record some of his vocals for the live release.
When ACOS appeared on YT, I compared it to an audience recording and noticed overdubs in some sections, so they must've done the fixing already (unless they're going to do more of it before the official release).
If there is an official release, and that's a big "IF". It would be nice though to hold us fans over until the new DT album comes out.
I wouldn't be surprised if DT is planning to film a show from their next tour so they can have some material from their new album on it. They probably will not release ( I hope I'm wrong) the Budokon 2017, but will save their energy and resources to make a live release from DT 14 tour.
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So DT just updated their Facebook title picture to a live foto from the last tour. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (probably) but do you guys think this could mean they're working on a live release after all?
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So DT just updated their Facebook title picture to a live foto from the last tour. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (probably) but do you guys think this could mean they're working on a live release after all?
Don't think so. They're in full new album gears right now.
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So DT just updated their Facebook title picture to a live foto from the last tour. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (probably) but do you guys think this could mean they're working on a live release after all?
Don't think so. They're in full new album gears right now.
Just like in 2013 and they still released LaLP and Happy Holidays.. But, yeah, who knows...
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So DT just updated their Facebook title picture to a live foto from the last tour. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (probably) but do you guys think this could mean they're working on a live release after all?
Don't think so. They're in full new album gears right now.
Just like in 2013 and they still released LaLP and Happy Holidays.. But, yeah, who knows...
Both were released after DT12.
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So DT just updated their Facebook title picture to a live foto from the last tour. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (probably) but do you guys think this could mean they're working on a live release after all?
Don't think so. They're in full new album gears right now.
Just like in 2013 and they still released LaLP and Happy Holidays.. But, yeah, who knows...
Both were released after DT12.
Exactly..
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I have a hunch that this show will be released in the deluxe edition of DT14.
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I have a hunch that this show will be released in the deluxe edition of DT14.
I was thinking the same thing...
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That.... might actually compel me to buy a "deluxe edition," something I never do.
Wait, I bought the deluxe edition of Systematic Chaos. That DVD was pretty neat and definitely worth it.
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I think this would be a great business idea. They have it mixed already so only thing they might do is push James do a little vocal overdubs here and there and it's off to go. Let's say 19 dollars for that special edition with live album and 14 dollars for just the new album.
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I have a hunch that this show will be released in the deluxe edition of DT14.
I would be ok with this.
Also, a video/documentary of the creative process would also be great, we had some videos for DT12 but they were very promotional and not really interesting. Something like the SC documentary would be fantastic.
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Am I the only one who still hopes for TA live?! ;D Even unofficially...
I have enough live versions of Metropolis to listen to...
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Am I the only one who still hopes for TA live?! ;D Even unofficially...
I have enough live versions of Metropolis to listen to...
No..... I would kill for that.... even a BR with live audio synced with the screens if no live video was recorded
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As for a deluxe edition, I'd like more actual studio work and "new" / different stuff. A song that is not on the album. Acoustic versions of new or older songs. A complete diverse arrangement for a song. Stuff like the piano version of Wither. A couple of covers. Anything like that.
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As for a deluxe edition, I'd like more actual studio work and "new" / different stuff. A song that is not on the album. Acoustic versions of new or older songs. A complete diverse arrangement for a song. Stuff like the piano version of Wither. A couple of covers. Anything like that.
While having a making of DVD/BR and/or a DVD/BR from the Budokan show would be nice, I would prefer and am hoping for what MM mentions. It's been a long time since they've had non-album tracks, so it would be nice to have a mix of those along with some alternate versions of new and old songs - maybe a few acoustic, but other arrangements too. Not that it will happen, but that would be my first choice.
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A live version of TA, a documentary, JP doing pole dance….I just want DT14! :metal :biggrin:
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Am I the only one who still hopes for TA live?! ;D Even unofficially...
I have enough live versions of Metropolis to listen to...
No..... I would kill for that.... even a BR with live audio synced with the screens if no live video was recorded
Agreed, though I doubt anything TA related would come with DT14, even in a deluxe edition.
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I have a hunch that this show will be released in the deluxe edition of DT14.
I was thinking the same thing...
I could get behind that.
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I have a hunch that this show will be released in the deluxe edition of DT14.
I was thinking the same thing...
I could get behind that.
That's one way to get me to buy the deluxe edition
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If it was going to be released as part of a package, it would make more sense to me to release it as part of an Images & Words re-release.
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As for a deluxe edition, I'd like more actual studio work and "new" / different stuff. A song that is not on the album. Acoustic versions of new or older songs. A complete diverse arrangement for a song. Stuff like the piano version of Wither. A couple of covers. Anything like that.
While having a making of DVD/BR and/or a DVD/BR from the Budokan show would be nice, I would prefer and am hoping for what MM mentions. It's been a long time since they've had non-album tracks, so it would be nice to have a mix of those along with some alternate versions of new and old songs - maybe a few acoustic, but other arrangements too. Not that it will happen, but that would be my first choice.
Agree that would be cool, and maybe there's hope in one form or another. The Astonishing novel did include a release of alternate versions of Gift of Music and a couple unrealized ideas in demo form.
Of course, for alternate arrangements of the DT catalog, there's always Jordan's Notes on a Dream which features some nice interpretations.
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While having a making of DVD/BR and/or a DVD/BR from the Budokan show would be nice, I would prefer and am hoping for what MM mentions. It's been a long time since they've had non-album tracks, so it would be nice to have a mix of those along with some alternate versions of new and old songs - maybe a few acoustic, but other arrangements too. Not that it will happen, but that would be my first choice.
Me too. "Making of" stuff is nice but how often do we really sit down and watch them? A few times when we first get it cuz we're excited and then probably rarely afterwards.
Alternate songs, however, can be put onto a mixtape and listened to any time so yes please.
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As true as your first statement is for me, I am the complete opposite on the second. I never think or care to listen to alternate versions.
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Alternate versions, to me, are called live versions. I mean there's the song, and that's it.
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I'm not big on alternate versions. In rare cases, I think they are better, but for the most part, I am not a fan.
Recent exceptions are Fates Warning. On Darkness in a Different Light, the extended version of Firefly is the one I much prefer. Ray told me that the extended piece was leftover from a different song, and re-worked into something for Firefly. If memory serves, he also liked the extended version.
On the same album, there is a song called Falling, which is a very short interlude acoustic/vocal piece. The original version of that song, which is included on a bonus disc as "Falling Further" is the full-on electric version, which is a normal song length, with a great solo (co-written by Aresti and Matheos). I really enjoy that more than the acoustic interlude.
But those exceptions aside, there are very few instances that I think alternate versions are needed. There's the song, then there's the live version of said song. And once in awhile, a translation to acoustic is cool. But I don't need multiple takes, v. 1, v. 2, v.3 with a whole bunch of different elements. I mean, they are cool to have, but I won't listen often.
Example - the sax version demo of "The Thin Line" by Queensryche. Very different, kinda cool. I've had that track probably since 1994 or 1995, and in 23 or 24 years, have probably listened to it less than 10 times. Just no real desire to.
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I'm not big on alternate versions. In rare cases, I think they are better, but for the most part, I am not a fan.
What do you think of the 3 versions of Hollow Years? (Album, demo, Live at Budokan)
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I'm not big on alternate versions. In rare cases, I think they are better, but for the most part, I am not a fan.
What do you think of the 3 versions of Hollow Years? (Album, demo, Live at Budokan)
Don't really have an opinion. I mean, the album version is the one in my head, that I've listened to tons of times. I have the demos, and I've listened a handful of times, but never really reach to listen to them as alternative versions (cool to have, and to pop on once in a blue moon). And I haven't listened to Live in Budokan since the four or five times I listened to it over the year it first came out. I just don't go back to it much.
So in general, I think whatever version the band prefers should always be on the album proper. Because if it isn't, chances are, I'm not going to listen to it a lot.
In that Fates Warning example, with today's technology, I spliced in the extended version of Firefly and the full version of Falling, and deleted the ones on the album sequence on my iTunes. But you can't quite do that with demo-quality or live-quality material and have a consistent listening experience (maybe it wouldn't bother some folks, but it would with me).
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This all seems surprising to me. I like hearing different versions of songs. I like hearing different things that the guys tried along the way to what they considered the finished product, the final version. To me, it offers a glimpse into the creative process.
Live versions can also be interesting, especially with bands that tend to do things differently a lot. Nowadays, everything's on a click-track so the idea is to not allow for things to be different, but in the old days, certain parts (especially solos) were left open to interpretation and letting the soloist live in the moment. The Grateful Dead, Phish, early Chicago, and of course King Crimson, all had open-ended sections.
But that's a different animal. I don't listen to alternate studio versions a lot, but I do check them out if/when I can find them, because I think they're interesting. I wish more bands loosened up and included them.
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I'm not big on alternate versions. In rare cases, I think they are better, but for the most part, I am not a fan.
What do you think of the 3 versions of Hollow Years? (Album, demo, Live at Budokan)
LAB version is in the top three live DT songs they have, IMO. The demo version is cool too. I might like that one more than the album version.
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Am I the only one who still hopes for TA live?! ;D Even unofficially...
I have enough live versions of Metropolis to listen to...
EXACTLY! Love the album, never got to see it live, zero interest in seeing Pull Me Under again.
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I like hearing different versions of songs. I like hearing different things that the guys tried along the way to what they considered the finished product, the final version. To me, it offers a glimpse into the creative process.
Is that because you are a musician, perhaps? It never would occur to me to be interested in the creative process in anything but I am not a creative person.
I don't care about different versions of different songs. I don't want rough drafts or alternate versions of novels, or films. There is a final product. That is the official product. That is what I want to listen to/read/watch. I do wrestle with the "Director's Cut" concept behind movies though. I understand there is a creative element and a business element behind the release of a film, and they are often at odds in a way that does not usually apply to music or literature. I wonder if we will ever get there some day, when an author will release an "Author's Cut" of their book becomes common. I am sure it has happened before, the only instance I can think of is "The Stand" that King was able to release as an uncut/revised edition.
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I don't care much about demos myself, but occasionally they are interesting. The demos from FII come to example as demos that are interesting, but I don't ever really return to them. I'd rather the finished product, for one being that it's typically good sound quality where the demo is not and another reason being the final song is typically much better than the demo from a songwriting perspective. It is interesting to see the creative process, but it's only interesting to see/hear it once or a few times before just returning to the finished product as the "go to" version of the song.
I think Hollow Years is an exception to the rule. That live version kicks ass, but I will listen to that, not the demo.
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I like what Daniel Gildenlöw did on the last Pain of Salvation album.
Demo songs with spoken introduktions where he talked about how they came about.
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I don't care about different versions of different songs. I don't want rough drafts or alternate versions of novels, or films. There is a final product. That is the official product. I understand there is a creative element and a business element behind the release of a film, and they are often at odds in a way that does not usually apply to music or literature.
This is I think why the FII Demos are probably the most popular of their demos. They faced so much studio pressure during the process that MP needed to show the world what FII was "supposed" to sound like
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I don't care about different versions of different songs. I don't want rough drafts or alternate versions of novels, or films. There is a final product. That is the official product. That is what I want to listen to/read/watch. I do wrestle with the "Director's Cut" concept behind movies though. I understand there is a creative element and a business element behind the release of a film, and they are often at odds in a way that does not usually apply to music or literature. I wonder if we will ever get there some day, when an author will release an "Author's Cut" of their book becomes common. I am sure it has happened before, the only instance I can think of is "The Stand" that King was able to release as an uncut/revised edition.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's a really bad analogy. Different versions of songs aren't the same thing as a rough draft of a movie or book (unless you are talking about a demo version of a song). Different versions are finished versions. Second, you don't go and see a live performance of a movie or book, where you would expect the author or director to change up a chapter or scene because people have heard/seen/read the "standard" version many times over, whereas there is plenty of reason to change up a song to give it a little different flavor.
As for the specific question about Hollow Years, that's probably one of the worst examples that could have been given. While I really like 98% of what DT does, Hollow Years easily falls in that 2% that I don't. Different versions do not save it from being an unenjoyable song.
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You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's a really bad analogy. Different versions of songs aren't the same thing as a rough draft of a movie or book (unless you are talking about a demo version of a song). Different versions are finished versions. Second, you don't go and see a live performance of a movie or book, where you would expect the author or director to change up a chapter or scene because people have heard/seen/read the "standard" version many times over, whereas there is plenty of reason to change up a song to give it a little different flavor.
I apologize, I was not considering a "live" version of a song in the same vein as an alternate version, such as an acoustic, demo, remix, or alternate take.
So excluding that, while different versions of a song are indeed "finished," I really only consider the properly released version to the be authoritative (don't like this work but working and too mentally tired to get a better one) version. The version of Hollow Years (since we are taking about that song) that is on FII is the authoritative version. Excluding a live release, which is just that, a live rendition, any demo version, remixed version, acoustic version, version with Mike on vocals, Derek playing guitar*or any other version are not official versions FII. I have no problem with them existing, and if people like them, then great. I just don't.
Continuing my example, The Stand as released in 78(?) is the official version of the novel The Stand. The 90 version is not. It is "The Complete & Uncut Edition."
I am not explaining my thoughts well.
*Let's call that the 'Making History' version
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Then again, if you read the hobbit today, it's significantly different from the version originally published, due to Tolkien revising the Hobbit to fit with the story of Lord of the Rings (in particular Bilbos meeting with Gollum).
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I just acquired a copy of this show from a trader. This is one of the funnest live performances of DT I've seen. Sure it's not perfect but it's refreshing and seems to have a lot of raw energy. The sound is great and the drums are up front in your face. I could tell MM and JP were having an especially good night. I missed seeing them live on this tour so this was a nice treat to have.
I gotta give props to James as he soldiered through the I&W songs, he definitely had his shining moments. I liked the first set equally as much if not more. The two songs from TA had high energy and I love that side of DT's songwriting. Then they go into As I am and BAI both of which is the highlight of the show for me!
What I love about this show is that they ditched the screens and just had a nice light show with the band jamming. I'll take that any day over the use of screens, I hope they stick with that on future tours.
All in all, this a very nice production and could be my favorite of all their live concert videos. It's not really polished but the band seems to be having a lot of fun just being Dream Theater. :metal
If they ever release this officially, I will buy it to support the band. Plus it will probably be touched up a bit and have some bonus material and what not..