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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: RKW on October 27, 2017, 08:19:18 AM

Title: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 27, 2017, 08:19:18 AM
Okay,

so, first of all, I apologise if my english is sometimes wrong and I hope I won't make too many mistakes.

That being said, hello everyone, I'm new on DTF and I'd like to share with you my experience of DT so far 'cause I think that's a cool thing to do as a first post. Also because I have so many things to say about this amazing band even though I've only been listening to them for 4 months.

I've always listened A LOT to music ever since I discovered metal when I was around 7 years old I think. The first band I fell in love with was Sonata Arctica and I still love them to this day. Then slowly my love for the genre extended to Stratovarius, Nightwish, Edguy/Avantasia, Blind Guardian... These bands defined what made music so magic to me. So, as you can guess, I come more from a power metal background than from a prog one. At that time, the closest thing to prog I knew was maybe Stratovarius' 18-minute Elysium or some 'crazy' stuff on SA's Unia album.

Dream Theater was also a name I always knew, but somehow I was never really eager to listen to them. I looked at the covers of their albums, checked the songs' lengths and felt 'woah, these guys are something, I'll have to be ready in order to dig their music!'. I did try to listen to Octavarium (the song) twice in the past but I remember absolutely nothing of it other than that it sounded strange, damn long and confused.

Then one day I found Ayreon and when I learned that it was classified as prog but was also a project with various singers very much like Avantasia and that I already knew some of these singers, I said to myself 'this must be the time to slowly try getting in this famous prog metal!'. I listened to 01011001 and was mind-blown, albeit I had mixed feelings in the beginning because of the strange mixture of styles. But that really helped me to open my mind to another genre of music, which I now somehow consider as the logical extension of what I've always been listening to.

That was around 8 months ago I think, and when this summer I watched The Theater Equation incredible performance of James LaBrie (it's definitely something to check out) I knew that finally I had to get into Dream Theater. I listened once again to Octavarium and the song just felt sooooo different from the bits I remembered I could hardly believe it was the same thing. I don't know, suddenly it all made sense! Yes, it is long but it is really structured and the progression of it all feels so well-thought and it's like a huge logical emotional roller coaster, with a big build-up, one epic climax followed by its dramatic conclusion.

I then bought Train of Thought almost immediately, surely because it was the one I could get the fastest and because its dark cover with the distubring illuminati eye coupled with it being filled almost only with songs above 10 minutes promised an exciting experience. I knew from reviews it was not really an album that can sum up all of DT style since it's almost only on the heavy side of the thing, but damn I had looked up for this band for so long and was finally hooked it felt like the best start possible. No need to say the first listening blew me away even though it was a lot to take at once, but I knew right away after ITNOG ended with that last epic piano part from Rudess that I was going to love it.

So that's for the bit of history and now that I'm sure DT is my thing I'd like to share what I think of the 4 albums I've got so far and my general thoughts about the band.

- Train of Thought: A complete classic album from beginning to end, where you could almost say each new track is better than the previous one, or at least if feels that way at first when listened to as a whole. Very metallica-influenced (and I don't really like metallica) but with some wizardry only DT possesses that turns it into something else. Over-the-top, bombastic, epic prog metal (or maybe metal prog) with a very cohesive feeling to it. Favorite songs: TDS, ES, SoC (+Vacant), ITNOG.

- DT12: yep, the next one I listened to was DT12 because I went to a local metal music store and it was the only one they had I could afford (the other they had was SC but only the special edition so it was bit more expensive). Completely different from ToT, with a much mellower sound overall but also great in its own way. Also a logical progression throughout the album with IT summing up pretty much everything the record is about at the end, both musically and lyrically. A well-done mixture of fun and energy, sensibility, beauty, intensity. Really, a great great record which sounds 'mature' in spite of a better word. Favorite tracks: TEI, TBP, STR, IT.

- Systematic Chaos: so of course I went back and bought the special edition the next time. How should I descirbe this one? Hmm, I think the title speaks for itself in the end. I had a lot of trouble getting into it at first since every song is so different from each other (except for CM and TDEN which works well together as the heavy tandem but still they're isolated from the rest). But in the end it's also its strenght because I was constantly surprised when I discovered it. And I think dividing ITPOE into two parts was a wise choice because it feels really great when you listen to it as a whole to come back to the very first song in the end after having gone trough such a 'mess'. Favorite songs: ITPOE (full song), TMOLS, Repetance, then I love all of the rest equally (and I LIKE it!).

- Images and Words: I bought it next since it is almost unanimously considered as one of their best, if not the best. What surprised me the most was really that 90s vibe I was not expecting! I feel it is a great record as a whole and of course I had to love the most praised songs since they are not praised without reason but other than that it has still to grow on me. Pull me under is a fine song but I much prefer the verses and the pre-chorus melody to the rest of the song, the intro melody is good as well but maybe drags on for a bit too long and the riff are maybe too monotonous. I can understand why it is a classic song but it is far from being the epitome of what DT's music is. Favorite tracks: LTL (+Wait for sleep), Metropolis Pt. I, Surrounded.

So, from this I've noticed some characteristics which are part of why I love so far what I know of DT. First of all, each album is pretty unique and works very well on its own as a great experience from beginning to end. At the moment I love them all for different reasons and could not rank them whatsoever. Another thing is that they're all completely different, I'd even dare to say that each song I know so far is different and got its own distinctive aspects. The band's technique is of course impressive but what impresses even more is that they seem to ALWAYS have ideas, I guess they like to jam a lot! The only letdown could be that they do not hide their influences or that they sometimes tend to show-off a little to much in the songs but I don't even see how I could hold that against them when they turn everyhting into gold and create pure art. Plus, they seem so humble and down-to-earth you can't help but love them!

In the end, what matters to me the most is whether the music comes from the heart and is intense, whatever that may mean depending on the style, and I'm glad I've found that with DT. I know they are a controversial band since they've done so many things and some songs are almost opposites but I can't help but respect them deep down inside and be happy for everything they put out. I'm very confident I'm going to like almost everything from them (maybe WDADU aside!). I want to thank them for keeping on creating true music.

So, next I will get SDOIT which I have already ordered, now I just have to wait for it to be delivered. I'm expecting it to be epic, to explore the different aspects of their sound and that I will be completely blown away by the 42-minute self-titled song, maybe the best thing they've ever done or at least close to it. It sounds so promising I'm very excited! I also intend to get The Astonishing for Christmas since its their latest work and this huge, ambitious concept album that I am sure will not disappoint whatever the controversial opinions are once again. I'm very glad that a band that's starting to get old like them still puts that much effort into their music and wants to create a real experience from it. If the structure is well-done, who knows, it may even rise as being my favorite concept album (at the moment the title belong to Ayreon's Theory of Everything which I consider as an almost perfect record, look at my avatar!).

I've already written a lot but I'm pretty sure I've forgotten almost half of what I wanted to say originally, but anyway I think that's it.

Bottom line is: DT's got a new huge fan.



Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 27, 2017, 08:36:02 AM
Thanks for posting! That was a fun read. Bottom line: Just enjoy these guys while you can. They're a great group.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: MirrorMask on October 27, 2017, 08:39:47 AM
Welcome to the forums! you know, being a long time DT fan sometimes I envy the newcomers, the feeling of discovering something new, fresh, and unique!

And after Six Degrees, may I suggest you to check out Scenes from a Memory? it's one of their universally acclaimed albums, and the whole disc is the sequel to Metropolis pt.1 off Images and Words; you may want to try that one as a concept before going into the "rock opera" experience that is The Astonishing.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 08:40:59 AM
Thanks for posting! That was a fun read. Bottom line: Just enjoy these guys while you can. They're a great group.

^This.

Welcome aboard.

Based on your tastes, I think you will like Six Degrees.  Technically speaking, it isn't a "concept album," although DT has always been a band that blurred the lines on things, and it isn't hard to understand why some consider it a concept album anyway.  But the songs are fantastic.  If you haven't noticed this already, This Dying Soul, The Root of All Evil, and Repentence are all connected and part of a suite of songs over five albums that go together.  The first song in the suite is on Six Degrees, and many people consider it a fan favorite.  In case you don't already know that, I will not spoil which song it is.  You will figure it out.  The last song is on Black Clouds and Silver linings. 

You have a lot of music to explore.  Have fun!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 27, 2017, 08:54:25 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome!  ;)

Yes I know about Portnoy's 12-step suite, in fact I already know almost all of the songs titles even though I still haven't listened to them since I've been 'looking up' (I hope that's the right word) for the band for a long time as I've already said! I expect TGP to be on the heavier side like TDS since Repetance is meant to be the 'breather' of the suite.

I intend to get SFAM sooner or later, whether that is before or after TA I can't tell at the moment, it will depend on how long I will be satisfied with 6DOIT alone, I guess! But of course I know it's one of their most acclaimed albums with I&W. I'll get it when I feel 'ready', I want to keep on cherishing the fact that I'm a newbie and that I've still a lot to discover!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: MirrorMask on October 27, 2017, 09:28:06 AM
I intend to get SFAM sooner or later, whether that is before or after TA I can't tell at the moment, it will depend on how long I will be satisfied with 6DOIT alone, I guess! But of course I know it's one of their most acclaimed albums with I&W. I'll get it when I feel 'ready', I want to keep on cherishing the fact that I'm a newbie and that I've still a lot to discover!

I like this approach. Look like you "studied" and documented yourself on Dream Theater, what they do and which albums they have, and you're following your hunch and instict on where to go next; I've done this too in the past while discovering new artists, I'd say go for it.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: SebastianPratesi on October 27, 2017, 11:05:25 AM
Okay,

so, first of all, I apologise if my english is sometimes wrong and I hope I won't make too many mistakes.

Bottom line is: DT's got a new huge fan.
Hi and welcome, RKW! I just finished reading your post. I don't share some of your tastes (for instance, Train of thought is my least favourite album, eventhough I discovered the band throught it), but most of your opinions I agree with - especially about "Pull me under": I also think it's way overrated. I love the self-titled album too. :)

Where are you from?
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Podaar on October 27, 2017, 11:38:39 AM
Welcome.

Epic first post!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 27, 2017, 12:41:56 PM
MirrorMask: I feel that's the best way to go!

SebastianPratesi: I think TOT is a very demanding album since its 98% heavy but in the end it really is the epicness of the thing that blows me away. I mean, it's just so powerful! But who knows, maybe it will also be my least favorite with time and when I know everything? It could, but only time will tell. The same goes for DT12. As for now, I just love both! PMU feels kind of overrated yes, in my opinion it could have been better it was less repetitive and if the pre-chorus wasn't actually more enjoyable than the chorus itself.

I'm from France, that's why I hope my english skills aren't too bad, because it is well-known that French people always fail at english! ::)

Podaar: Thank you!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 12:46:35 PM
Your English is great.

As far as loving Train of Thought, if you do, that's great.  If you browse any of the 100s of ranking threads, you will see that most fans rank it fairly low in the DT discography.  But when people talk about it, I think you'll find that most of them still like a lot of the songs themselves.  I know for me personally, I rank it in the bottom third or so.  But it's still a good fine album with some really good songs. 
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on October 27, 2017, 12:51:02 PM
What an epic introduction to the Dream Theater community. Welcome, friend, and thank you for sharing such a detailed story with us!

Quote
I've always listened A LOT to music ever since I discovered metal when I was around 7 years old I think. The first band I fell in love with was Sonata Arctica and I still love them to this day. Then slowly my love for the genre extended to Stratovarius, Nightwish, Edguy/Avantasia, Blind Guardian... These bands defined what made music so magic to me. So, as you can guess, I come more from a power metal background than from a prog one. At that time, the closest thing to prog I knew was maybe Stratovarius' 18-minute Elysium or some 'crazy' stuff on SA's Unia album.

The bands you list, apart from Nightwish, are among my all-time favorite bands *ever* and influenced me to become a pianist and dive into the deep world of music theory and composition. I totally understand where you're coming from (although I got into Dream Theater at the same time instead of later). I'm with you, those bands defined what made music magical to me as well, and still do. Stratovarius is the greatest band on the planet and I'll stick by that til the day I die :)

I hope you can get the other Dream Theater albums soon. I'm very curious to hear what your thoughts on Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence will be. And Octavarium. You have a lot of magical 'firsts' ahead of you. I envy you - I miss the days when I heard Images & Words for the first time, or would play Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence on repeat for an entire day because it was fresh and blowing my mind.

Train of Thought really impressed me when I was getting into the band. As the years have passed, it's fallen out of favor with me, but I don't think there's a bad song on that album - I'm just never in the mood to listen to it. I remember the first time I heard the guitar solo in In The Name of God... jaw was on the floor.

And your English is fantastic. Don't worry about it. :)
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 27, 2017, 01:02:38 PM
bosk1: Yeah I just can't tell where I would rank Train of Thought for the moment and since I know only 4 albums + 2 songs... Maybe I've got the feeling that I will slowly listen to it less and less as a whole album even though each song is great on its own, I don't know.

Kattelox: Actually, Nightwish is my least favorite of those bands. Oceanborn and Imaginaerum are really the two albums I absolutely love, DPP is the one that I feel is really great, and the others are kind of a mixed bag for me. But still, sometimes it is so good I could not not mention them.

You know what? They've also driven me to start learning the piano 2 years and a half ago. And I'm glad I did since I found I really love playing it, even more than what I expected. I also try writing music a bit but it's messy most of the time - you can check my musescore account if you want but it's not really great, let's say I lack experience in songwriting. As for the music theory, I feel it is DT that will help me to get more into it! I already try to identify time signatures even though I still have no idea what it is most of the time. SoC is in 5/4 for the most part, I think?

Stratovarius is really great, Elysium is by far my favorite song of theirs but the last album was kinda too safe for me, the songs are great but nothing new at all. I dig a lot the kind of more atmospheric stuff there is on Episode with songs like Season of Change (man, I just realized it is Change of seasons reversed :o).

I'm very excited for Six Degrees, sure I'll share my thoughts when I get it!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: cramx3 on October 27, 2017, 01:07:37 PM
Welcome and this:

Welcome to the forums! you know, being a long time DT fan sometimes I envy the newcomers, the feeling of discovering something new, fresh, and unique!

Man that feeling I had when first discovering DT is definitely something I miss, the excitement of going through the backlog of music then discovering the live albums and all the different things they've done including the live covers.  So much music to go through and it's so good.  You'll have a good time experiencing this music for the first time  :metal
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on October 27, 2017, 01:13:46 PM
Those are my favorite Nightwish albums. Are you a younger version of me? The parallels are getting scary :lol

If you're really into learning music, Dream Theater will totally help you get familiar with odd meters like 5/4 and 7/8 and all that good stuff. You'll get a feel for it the more you get into the music. I love the songs that are in odd time but don't actually sound like it (Solitary Shell on Six Degrees instantly comes to mind - it's in 7/4 for the first few minutes but it almost feels like a standard 4/4 song).

I wonder if this is the same feeling others had while I was falling in love with Fates Warning a couple weeks ago, or now, while I'm finally getting into Rush. The feeling of discovery, even if the band has been around a long time - it's always going to be new for someone, and it's always a joy watching someone else become a big fan of something you adore.

(Would also enjoy hearing your thoughts on various power metal bands in the general music section!)
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 27, 2017, 01:23:38 PM
We can talk about some power metal in the appropriate section if you want! (I just realised it's written Child of the Wild under your avatar, huh?).

Odd time signatures sure can be awesome, but it's so hard to identify them if your ears aren't trained, and I guess mine still need a lot of training! I know DT will help.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 01:26:32 PM
One of the cool things I really like about DT is that, even when their songs are changing time signatures like crazy, it doesn't necessarily sound as crazy as it is until something like this makes you realize what is actually going on:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfWdOBYk6g4
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 27, 2017, 01:30:03 PM
Wait, did the guy in the video just say there's 63 time changes in LTL??


 :metal
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on October 27, 2017, 01:35:40 PM
If you think that's bad, watch that guy's video beatboxing to Dance of Eternity.  I get winded just watching. :lol
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 27, 2017, 01:45:10 PM
Learning to live is just one of their 10-minute songs that flows so well it's scary there's so many time changes because it's almost unnoticable!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Another_Won on October 27, 2017, 01:46:34 PM
You know what? They've also driven me to start learning the piano 2 years and a half ago. And I'm glad I did since I found I really love playing it, even more than what I expected. I also try writing music a bit but it's messy most of the time - you can check my musescore account if you want but it's not really great, let's say I lack experience in songwriting. As for the music theory, I feel it is DT that will help me to get more into it! I already try to identify time signatures even though I still have no idea what it is most of the time. SoC is in 5/4 for the most part, I think?
Welcome!

For SoC check out this video of Mike showing the different time changes:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwkcRTNMsWs
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: don_waka on October 27, 2017, 02:36:10 PM
Wow, you sound a lot like a former student of mine. The way you started off with DT, the power-metal background, the Ayreon thing, etc. But you're French so nope :metal
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: gzarruk on October 27, 2017, 02:37:53 PM
Welcome to DTF and the wonderful world of DT music, RKW! I remember listening to my first DT album (my first prog album too), it was SFAM. I was BLOWN AWAY by it! A friend of mine made me listen to it around late 2009 (I was 14 at the time), and liked it so much I listened to the whole catalog over the next months/years. I'm a big fan ever since!

I think you'll like SDOIT a lot. To me, SFAM and SDOIT are the peak in the DT songwriting. SFAM is still my favorite, but I think SDOIT could be their best. Hope you enjoy them as much as I do!  :metal
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 02:47:27 PM
One of the best things about being here is that it is fun saying "gzarruk" out loud over and over again.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: gzarruk on October 27, 2017, 02:58:10 PM
One of the best things about being here is that it is fun saying "gzarruk" out loud over and over again.

:lol how do you say it? It's taken from my name, Gabriel (that's astonishing) Zarruk  :biggrin:
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 03:05:34 PM
:biggrin:  Gǝ (like in “guppy”) – Zarick (like Tom Zerek from Battlestar Galactica).  I know that probably isn't right.  But it's fun to say that way.  :lol
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on October 27, 2017, 03:08:22 PM
Try saying it when you burp. It's even funnier.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Sycsa on October 27, 2017, 03:59:57 PM
I'm from France, that's why I hope my english skills aren't too bad, because it is well-known that French people always fail at english! ::)
Yeah, what's up with that? Is that a pride thing? Or is the education system bad?
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Dublagent66 on October 27, 2017, 04:11:58 PM
So, next I will get SDOIT which I have already ordered, now I just have to wait for it to be delivered. I'm expecting it to be epic, to explore the different aspects of their sound and that I will be completely blown away by the 42-minute self-titled song, maybe the best thing they've ever done or at least close to it.

It's epic in every way possible and absolutely the best thing they've ever done.  You nailed it!  Enjoy.  :tup
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 28, 2017, 03:12:56 AM
I'm from France, that's why I hope my english skills aren't too bad, because it is well-known that French people always fail at english! ::)
Yeah, what's up with that? Is that a pride thing? Or is the education system bad?

The education system I think, it is kinda terrible. I could not write nor read english that easily if it weren't for personal 'training', spending a lot of time reading on the Internet, reading books I love in English, understanding the lyrics of the songs, etc... Sure, I would know the basics (I hope) but it would be hard to think more complex sentences, written in a more fluid, personal way. I could never write such a long first post with just what we're taught in school! And I know that's this way for the most people in our country.

So, next I will get SDOIT which I have already ordered, now I just have to wait for it to be delivered. I'm expecting it to be epic, to explore the different aspects of their sound and that I will be completely blown away by the 42-minute self-titled song, maybe the best thing they've ever done or at least close to it.

It's epic in every way possible and absolutely the best thing they've ever done.  You nailed it!  Enjoy.  :tup

Now, I really can't wait!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: MirrorMask on October 28, 2017, 03:15:40 AM
Reading lyrics is how I (an italian, one of the worse offenders when it comes to not knowing english) is how I got skilled in the language as well.

School didn't teach me english, Steve Harris did  :metal
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 28, 2017, 03:30:34 AM
Well Hello then, nice first post! Don't worry about Your english which is great btw ;) I have always problems with expressing myself here in english too, and I tend to use very often the same words ;) but I think it doesn't matter here, DTF community is fantastic :) And, about Your DT adventure - I hope You will like Six Degrees, and have You heard Scenes From A Memory? Perfect album, in every bit. Try it, You'll love it :)
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 28, 2017, 03:36:52 AM
Thank you! Yes, DTF seems fantastic, english is no excuse I guess!

As I have already said about SFAM:

I intend to get SFAM sooner or later, whether that is before or after TA I can't tell at the moment, it will depend on how long I will be satisfied with 6DOIT alone, I guess! But of course I know it's one of their most acclaimed albums with I&W. I'll get it when I feel 'ready', I want to keep on cherishing the fact that I'm a newbie and that I've still a lot to discover!

Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: KevShmev on October 28, 2017, 01:17:06 PM
Welcome!!

While I don't genuflect to the song 6DOIT like others do (it feels like a bunch of separate songs rather than a single whole), it is still a fun suite. And Disc 1 is mostly stellar.

Awake is the real motherlode.  That one should really blow your doors off.  :metal :metal
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: gzarruk on October 28, 2017, 02:01:23 PM
While I don't genuflect to the song 6DOIT like others do (it feels like a bunch of separate songs rather than a single whole), it is still a fun suite. And Disc 1 is mostly stellar.

I agree. To me, disc 1 is much better than disc 2... and disc 2 is amazing  :metal
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 29, 2017, 02:35:08 AM
Welcome!!

While I don't genuflect to the song 6DOIT like others do (it feels like a bunch of separate songs rather than a single whole), it is still a fun suite. And Disc 1 is mostly stellar.

Awake is the real motherlode.  That one should really blow your doors off.  :metal :metal

It sure seems so long that I can understand it could feel kind of disconnected... I'll remember to tell how I feel about that in my first impressions.

Awake is an interesting recommandation, I really like the cover for that one.

Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Mladen on October 29, 2017, 04:33:00 AM
Welcome aboard, RKW! Fantastic first post!  :tup

Nice reviews on the albums you've heard so far. You're yet to hear some of the best ones, though. Six degrees and The Astonishing are among their best releases, so you're in for a treat over the next two months.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: KevShmev on October 29, 2017, 08:17:57 AM


Awake is an interesting recommandation, I really like the cover for that one.

Awake has long been a favorite of the fan base (it consistently finishes in the top 3-4 in polls here, is their 3rd highest rated studio album at Rate Your Music behind only Scenes and I&W, and is their 4th highest rated studio album at Prog Archives).  And the band has played most of the songs in the Mangini era so far (8 of the 11 songs), so both the fans and the band love it.  Prepare yourself. :metal
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 30, 2017, 12:12:38 AM


Awake is an interesting recommandation, I really like the cover for that one.

Awake has long been a favorite of the fan base (it consistently finishes in the top 3-4 in polls here, is their 3rd highest rated studio album at Rate Your Music behind only Scenes and I&W, and is their 4th highest rated studio album at Prog Archives).  And the band has played most of the songs in the Mangini era so far (8 of the 11 songs), so both the fans and the band love it.  Prepare yourself. :metal
Awake was my first DT album that I've heard... so perfect way to get into DT :)
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 30, 2017, 06:35:42 AM
Well, Awake must be a great album in that case!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: MirrorMask on October 30, 2017, 06:38:49 AM
Well, Awake must be a great album in that case!

It damn is. It's the black pearl opposed to the shining gem that is Images and Words - dark, heavy, and with absolutely perfectly constructed songs. The longer songs are all cohesive and brillaint, and there's an instrumental which is a total treat!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Mladen on October 30, 2017, 07:15:52 AM
Awake might be a bit difficult at first, though, so be prepared. It took me a year or so to full appreciate it, but now it's in my top 3 as well.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on October 30, 2017, 07:41:31 AM
I'm in the minority that doesn't think Awake is the best thing since Jesus. Scarred and Voices are held in high regard by most fans but I think they're 1) way too long and 2) have some absolutely horrible vocal lines, with awkward cadences and James screaming wildly. Voices is awful in that aspect. But on the rest of the record James's voice is utterly brilliant, on every single song. Those two songs really drag it down for me, they're terrible.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: MirrorMask on October 30, 2017, 08:01:31 AM
Funny enough, I consider Voices one of their best songs ever, wonderfully and masterfully constructed, with perfect vocal lines.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Herrick on October 30, 2017, 08:28:23 AM
Hi RKW. I'd recommend Metropolis Part II: Scenes from a Memory after you get Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence  :tup
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: gzarruk on October 30, 2017, 08:42:07 AM
Funny enough, I consider Voices one of their best songs ever, wonderfully and masterfully constructed, with perfect vocal lines.

My thoughts as well.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on October 30, 2017, 08:52:19 AM
Different opinions? On MY Internet? I'm shocked...  :biggrin:
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 30, 2017, 10:11:07 AM
Hey guys,

I was wondering, there seems to be a kind of special edition for the Astonishing, is it worth it? Do you know what kind of extra content there is? Does it have a bigger booklet or something like that? Does it only exists for vinyl? I was doing some research and I'm a bit confused.

Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Dublagent66 on October 30, 2017, 10:16:46 AM
Hey guys,

I was wondering, there seems to be a kind of special edition for the Astonishing, is it worth it? Do you know what kind of extra content there is? Does it have a bigger booklet or something like that? Does it only exists for vinyl? I was doing some research and I'm a bit confused.

Look up The Astonishing Limited Edition Box set on Google.  It shows you everything.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on October 30, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
Thanks! Well it doesn't look that interesting, I'll be fine with a regular digipak edition.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 31, 2017, 12:42:41 AM
I'm in the minority that doesn't think Awake is the best thing since Jesus. Scarred and Voices are held in high regard by most fans but I think they're 1) way too long and 2) have some absolutely horrible vocal lines, with awkward cadences and James screaming wildly. Voices is awful in that aspect. But on the rest of the record James's voice is utterly brilliant, on every single song. Those two songs really drag it down for me, they're terrible.

The 2 best songs on the album.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Mladen on October 31, 2017, 12:49:15 AM
Especially Scarred.  :metal
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on October 31, 2017, 07:09:17 AM
That is fake news.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Dublagent66 on October 31, 2017, 03:45:07 PM
I'm in the minority that doesn't think Awake is the best thing since Jesus. Scarred and Voices are held in high regard by most fans but I think they're 1) way too long and 2) have some absolutely horrible vocal lines, with awkward cadences and James screaming wildly. Voices is awful in that aspect. But on the rest of the record James's voice is utterly brilliant, on every single song. Those two songs really drag it down for me, they're terrible.

Well, first of all, I don't think anybody thinks Awake is the best thing since Jesus.  It's just a really good album.  Secondly, "way too long" isn't in DT's vocabulary and I can't imagine not liking a song because of it's length.  It's either a good song or it isn't.  Thirdly, JLB screamed wildly a lot in his early days.  Whatever you do, don't listen to LATM.   :lol :lol
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on October 31, 2017, 04:28:48 PM
I'm in the minority that doesn't think Awake is the best thing since Jesus. Scarred and Voices are held in high regard by most fans but I think they're 1) way too long and 2) have some absolutely horrible vocal lines, with awkward cadences and James screaming wildly. Voices is awful in that aspect. But on the rest of the record James's voice is utterly brilliant, on every single song. Those two songs really drag it down for me, they're terrible.

Well, first of all, I don't think anybody thinks Awake is the best thing since Jesus.  It's just a really good album.  Secondly, "way too long" isn't in DT's vocabulary and I can't imagine not liking a song because of it's length.  It's either a good song or it isn't.  Thirdly, JLB screamed wildly a lot in his early days.  Whatever you do, don't listen to LATM.   :lol :lol

I've been a fan for a decade and a half, I've heard LATM many times  :lol I'm obviously using hyperbole, but Awake is very well received by much of the DT fanbase. And yes, way too long is absolutely in their vocab, look at Train of Thought and Black Clouds and the song Ministry of Lost Souls ;) Songs can indeed go on way too long and, while this topic is a whole other beast suitable for another thread, I think lots of DT songs suffer from musical diarrhea - long instrumental wankfests shoved in their for no reason, like that part about 2 minutes into Lost Not Forgotten that comes out of nowhere.

But that's just my opinion.  :biggrin: :biggrin:
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: MirrorMask on October 31, 2017, 04:38:20 PM
Well, not only yours  :D actually it's the only side of DT that I don't like, for the rest, I've always appreciated anything, regardless of the style or the genre of the songs. Which is good all things considered, there are bands that put out three albums in a row that suck (but not so bad to the point that you stop listening to them), the "worst" DT has ever done (according to my tastes of course) was just 3-4 minutes of wankfest here and there. There are bands that struggle to put out 3-4 minutes of awesome, mindblowing music per album  :D
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: erwinrafael on October 31, 2017, 04:53:43 PM
I'm in the minority that doesn't think Awake is the best thing since Jesus. Scarred and Voices are held in high regard by most fans but I think they're 1) way too long and 2) have some absolutely horrible vocal lines, with awkward cadences and James screaming wildly. Voices is awful in that aspect. But on the rest of the record James's voice is utterly brilliant, on every single song. Those two songs really drag it down for me, they're terrible.

I can see some problem with Voices. But Scarred? Nah. Scarred is a masterpiece. One of the best JLB vocal performances. The key to liking Scarred for me is to tie the music closely with the lyrics. The song is about somebody going through different emotions, and the music, particularly JLB's vocals, narrated the story well.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: SebastianPratesi on October 31, 2017, 09:35:30 PM
SebastianPratesi: I'm from France, that's why I hope my english skills aren't too bad, because it is well-known that French people always fail at english! ::)
Hey, just like everyone said: your English is great. That said, if you want to keep improving on it, stick around! I'm from Argentina, and I joined the forum last year - chatting here has helped my English for sure. ;)

As for the music theory, I feel it is DT that will help me to get more into it! I already try to identify time signatures even though I still have no idea what it is most of the time. SoC is in 5/4 for the most part, I think?
That happened to me as well! When I discovered the band through Train of thought, a whole new world of odd-time signatures opened up to me. And yes, "Stream of consciousness" is in 5/4 in many sections. There is 3/4, 4/4 and 7/4 throughout as well.

One of the cool things I really like about DT is that, even when their songs are changing time signatures like crazy, it doesn't necessarily sound as crazy as it is until something like this makes you realize what is actually going on:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfWdOBYk6g4
Thanks for sharing that link, bosk - I had never watched that. That guy is so talented! Makes me remember what I tend to do while walking - I don't hum lyrics/melodies, I just make weird noises with my mouth to follow the beat in my mind.  :D

The education system I think, it is kinda terrible. I could not write nor read english that easily if it weren't for personal 'training', spending a lot of time reading on the Internet, reading books I love in English, understanding the lyrics of the songs, etc... Sure, I would know the basics (I hope) but it would be hard to think more complex sentences, written in a more fluid, personal way. I could never write such a long first post with just what we're taught in school! And I know that's this way for the most people in our country.
Thanks for mentioning that! I'm a (Mathematics) teacher/professor, so it's always cool to learn about the Education System in other places.

Six degrees and The Astonishing are among their best releases, so you're in for a treat over the next two months.
Nice to see some love for The Astonishing after a year! One of my favourite albums (ever, by anyone).  :heart
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Dublagent66 on November 01, 2017, 11:14:22 AM
I'm in the minority that doesn't think Awake is the best thing since Jesus. Scarred and Voices are held in high regard by most fans but I think they're 1) way too long and 2) have some absolutely horrible vocal lines, with awkward cadences and James screaming wildly. Voices is awful in that aspect. But on the rest of the record James's voice is utterly brilliant, on every single song. Those two songs really drag it down for me, they're terrible.

Well, first of all, I don't think anybody thinks Awake is the best thing since Jesus.  It's just a really good album.  Secondly, "way too long" isn't in DT's vocabulary and I can't imagine not liking a song because of it's length.  It's either a good song or it isn't.  Thirdly, JLB screamed wildly a lot in his early days.  Whatever you do, don't listen to LATM.   :lol :lol

I've been a fan for a decade and a half, I've heard LATM many times  :lol I'm obviously using hyperbole, but Awake is very well received by much of the DT fanbase. And yes, way too long is absolutely in their vocab, look at Train of Thought and Black Clouds and the song Ministry of Lost Souls ;) Songs can indeed go on way too long and, while this topic is a whole other beast suitable for another thread, I think lots of DT songs suffer from musical diarrhea - long instrumental wankfests shoved in their for no reason, like that part about 2 minutes into Lost Not Forgotten that comes out of nowhere.

But that's just my opinion.  :biggrin: :biggrin:

You took the bold part out of context.  I meant, no song is too long for DT.  That should go without saying.  Also, they don't put sections of songs in there for no reason.  There's a reason for all of it, regardless if fans like it or not.  You're right about one thing.  Talking about musical diarrhea is probably more suitable in the controversial opinions thread.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on November 01, 2017, 11:24:52 AM
Well of course there is SOME reason they put it in there, otherwise they... wouldn't have put it in there. I don't feel a need to punctuate every thought of mine with 'in my opinion.' :) But you're right, that thread is a good place to go...
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: gzarruk on November 01, 2017, 11:27:34 AM
I agree on the fact that some songs are just long for the sake of being long. ANTR, for example, has great flow untill the soloing part, and then it has some random sections that go for too long, like the blast beat part  :facepalm:
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on November 11, 2017, 06:00:58 AM
So... I've got Six Degrees!

By now I had the time to listen to each song more or less 4-5 times so I still have a lot do discover but here are my general thoughts.

TGP is an awesome opener with a lot of cool stuff I still have to digest. Overall, I know the riffs are monstruous, there is one around 5 minutes I think which is re-used in TDS and the ending is really good.

BF has a kind of asiatic-sounding vibe in the beginning which greatly surprised me, in a good way! It is really catchy and the instrumental section sounds awesome, with a beautiful piano solo somewhere in. It doesn't feel long at all, I really enjoy it.

Misunderstood... is the weirdest. At first it feels very calm and soothing, then somehow it starts becoming more and more powerful in such a natural way, the vocal part which ends with "from a god to a God save me" gives me chills, or perhaps I should say, gave me literal chills yesterday when I listened to it walking in the cold of the street and started focusing on the lyrics which just resonated deep with me for a couple of minutes - a really unique experience. I still don't know what to think of that ending though.

TGD is the one I remember the less from, it still has to grow on me. But I remember that it felt really good upon the first listening, lasting for more than 13 minutes but still feeling very cohesive and with a unique sound to it. I think the spoken part works very well to emphasize the subject of the song.

Disappear still feels a bit "hollow" to me, it is a good song but it does not make me that sad despite having a haunting feeling. I think it will be a grower.

And then there is that massive 42-minute epic... I don't have the words to describe it. Right away from the Overture I knew I would love it. Each part is great and there are a lot of highlight moments, it never sounds boring nor far-fetched. It goes through happy moments as well as dramatic ones and feels like a huge symphony. All the instruments shine here with really great keyboard and guitar solos. It has a bit of everything DT is and it is constantly surprising until the end.

Overall, what strikes me the most is how experimental this one sounds compared to the others, I don't really know how to explain it. All the songs are completely unique and still they all flow together really well. Also, I think this is the record of all those that I have where Rudess has the most key role in it, he's really in the front spot most of the time, and I love that. He brought such a beautiful symphonic vibe on the SDOIT song.

Finally, I have a good feeling this may start being my favorite, even though my only worry is that I want to listen to it on repeat so much right now that I may eventually get tired of it - but I hope it won't be the case. Really, this albums sounds good from beginning to end and that's impressive. Only a few albums so far left me with a big smile on my face trying to remember everything, how great it was, astonished, wanting to listen to nothing else after it ended, right upon the first listening. This is one of them. It rocks!  :metal


Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: MirrorMask on November 11, 2017, 06:14:00 AM
We've all been there RKW! It's nice to see new fans going through the different emotions we've all experienced back in the day. Many people thought what you though, especially of that outro to Misunderstood  :D

Glad that you like the album, I hope Disappear will grow on you because it's one of their most unique and heartfelt ballads!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: KevShmev on November 11, 2017, 06:21:19 AM
The Misunderstood outro can be strange at first, but once you get used to it, you realize that it fits the song perfectly.  That might still be my favorite DT song of the 21st century.

For me, all of Disc 1 is great, except for The Great Debate (which is good, but the meat of the song is still a letdown after how awesome the intro is), and Disc 2 is good for what it is (a bunch of short songs stitched together, rather than a cohesive, well-flowing epic).
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on November 11, 2017, 06:33:16 AM
I also hope Disappear will grow on me, time will tell!

For Misunderstood, that outro it is such a creative idea that I feel I will also love it with time. But I disagree about disc 2, for me it flows really well as an epic, only TTTSTA followed by Goodnight Kiss feels a bit disconnected, but it's no worse than Ressurection/Heretic for ITPOE which is also intended as one song despite being seperated into two tracks. The rest flows well. 
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on November 11, 2017, 06:38:52 AM
RKW, I'm so happy you're enjoying Six Degrees. That is my favorite Dream Theater record, and for good reason.

Disc 1 can be a daunting listen because of the long songs and ballads, but I also get chills at the "from a thief to a beggar, from a god to God save me" part - great lyrics. The Great Debate is a pretty divisive song because of its length and lyrical content, but I love it. It's a deeper cut that most DT fans don't talk about these days. Disappear gives me chills and sometimes makes my eyes water, and The Glass Prison is pretty much a universal favorite of DT fans. Glad you're liking them.

The title track... I remember being a kid playing computer games and listening to that song on repeat, all day long, for most of a summer. And it never got old. How about that guitar solo in Goodnight Kiss that leads into Solitary Shell? That's one of the three best Dream Theater guitar solos ever, in my opinion. That entire disc is incredible from start to finish, though. Just think, that album would never have turned out like that (or even be made at all) without Jordan. He really shines and proves his worth on that song. I absolutely love About to Crash... everything about it is perfect, and I also love About to Crash (Reprise) because of all the instrumental stuff going on in the second half.

Keep listening and keep having fun, dude.  :biggrin:  :metal
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on November 11, 2017, 06:56:49 AM
The title track... I remember being a kid playing computer games and listening to that song on repeat, all day long, for most of a summer. And it never got old. How about that guitar solo in Goodnight Kiss that leads into Solitary Shell? That's one of the three best Dream Theater guitar solos ever, in my opinion.

I was thinking this may be my favorite solo of Petrucci so far! The one in About to Crash with just the drums is also awesome even though it is so simple. I also love the Reprise when it comes back with that incredible riff based on the piano you hear the first time, it feels so powerful!

For now, my favorite song of disc 1 may be Blind Faith, but only because this is the most directly catchy while the others are surely growers.

And yes, Jordan really did an impressive job here, just when I think of Overture, it is pure magic. But the sound of the album is also really good, I think the drums may also be at their best here.

Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: BelichickFan on November 11, 2017, 07:36:18 AM
Disappear still feels a bit "hollow" to me, it is a good song but it does not make me that sad despite having a haunting feeling. I think it will be a grower.

Disappear is one of the greatest songs about loss ever, by anyone.  One of my absolute favorite DT songs.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: gzarruk on November 11, 2017, 08:47:55 AM
SFAM might be my favorite, but I think SDOIT is DT's best album, love every bit of it :metal

And, you're right, without Jordan, this album would've never been as good as it is. I acually tend to prefer keyboard heavy DT albums (SFAM, SDOIT, TA, ADTOE, IAW) over the others.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: MirrorMask on November 11, 2017, 09:02:41 AM
Disappear is one of the greatest songs about loss ever, by anyone.

Absolutely and completely and totally 1001% precisely correct.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Evai on November 11, 2017, 09:29:44 AM
Man I hope Disappear finds its way back into DTs live set. On Budokan it was too fast and spoiled, but now with their click track to stay at a slow tempo, samples, and James' mature low voice, it'd be perfect
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Lethean on November 11, 2017, 10:04:54 AM
It's amazing that someone can be so right about one thing (Six Degrees) and so wrong about another (Scarred, Voices, Black Clouds). Don't listen to Kattelox about the latter, even though he is dead on about Six Degrees. :)

From a god to god save me *still* gives me chills to this day. Goodnight Kiss into Solitary Shell is total brilliance. Disappear is hauntingly beautiful. And I love The Great Debate too.

Welcome to Dream Theater. :)
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on November 11, 2017, 01:45:07 PM
Lethean, you so know I am right. I only speak truth. :)
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: KevShmev on November 11, 2017, 01:49:09 PM
Goodnight Kiss into Solitary Shell is total brilliance.

Agreed.  Even though I think the suite doesn't really flow when taking the whole thing into account as a single song (the first three songs are merely cross fades, rather than natural flows, and the end of Test and Solitary Shell sound like song endings), the way Goodnight Kiss flows into Solitary Shell is pretty damn amazing.  If I could count just two those as a single song, they'd probably be my 2nd favorite on the album behind Misunderstood.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on November 12, 2017, 10:40:40 AM
Late to this thread, but welcome RKW! I'm happy that you did your research, and I can't really say anything that hasn't been said already!

Although I will say that if you haven't listened to The Astonishing yet, I would definitely save that one for last, given how ambitious/different it is from the rest of their catalogue!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Lethean on November 13, 2017, 09:21:41 AM
Goodnight Kiss into Solitary Shell is total brilliance.

Agreed.  Even though I think the suite doesn't really flow when taking the whole thing into account as a single song (the first three songs are merely cross fades, rather than natural flows, and the end of Test and Solitary Shell sound like song endings), the way Goodnight Kiss flows into Solitary Shell is pretty damn amazing.  If I could count just two those as a single song, they'd probably be my 2nd favorite on the album behind Misunderstood.

I actually love the whole song, and don't have any issues with the way it flows. The whole thing works really well for me.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on April 21, 2018, 08:04:18 AM
Hi everyone! I'm sorry I did not take the time to post my thoughts while keeping on discovering others DT albums - I'm afraid I was too busy with other things. So anyway, I will try to remember the best I can my initial reactions to share them. 

Next album I listened to was, as planned, The Astonishing. There is a lot to say about this one. I knew I was going to try to dig it as much as possible despite all the controversial opinions because the simple fact that the band did such a bold move with it got me pretty confident. Now, I have to recognize it has some flaws. I admit I found myself thinking at some point "there are too many ballads". The pacing is sometimes a bit awkward and the fact that songs can sound the same (done on purpose of course) does not help during the first listening session. But at the same time I was not disappointed because there are a lot of surprises and 'wow' moments that are instantly noticeable. Dystopian Overture is absolutely great and the perfect way to start, and the way The Gift of Music follows right after gives me a kind of About to Crash vibe, which is awesome. Songs like Lord Nafaryus and Three Days feels so fresh for the band they are a real joy to listen to. A New Beginning is just such a theatrical song, I can perfectly visualize what is going on, and the ending solo is just sooo tasty it's hard to believe it! The most impressive thing on this album though is the way the band really wrote the music that goes with the story. First of all, the entire recurring themes thing is really well-done, it's almost like a game to try to spot in which songs this theme appears and why... From a compositional viewpoint, it's really, really impressive. And secondly, it really helps creating incredible moments like I have already mentioned. A track like A Savior in the Square does not make any sense if you are not aware of the context, why does it start so gently then goes on with trumpets before being more heavy and then ending once again softly? But when you know what's going on, it just feels completely right and spot-on! This is true for a lot of songs, but the ones that deserve the most praise in my opinion are Ravenskill, The Road to Revolution, The Path that Divides, The Walking Shadow and My Last Farewell. I especially love the way The Road to Revolution ends the first Act like a big "To be continued..." where the situation of every character is resumed. It was not really necessary to do because it doesn't drive the story forward, but if it had not been there it would have felt like something was missing. It shifts moods so naturally it's scary, plus the "road to revolution" theme may be my favorite off the album, so... yeah, I really find that one to be an underrated track. Perfect way to wrap up the first Act.

Now, as for the story itself, I understand it is kind of cliché, cheesy, whatever you want, and I agree, it's absolutely true. The ending is such a happy resolution it can get a bit ridiculous, especially considering character development (Nafaryus anyone?). The way the fight with swords in 2285, how it is completely unrealistic for such small-scale events to really change the state of things... really the point is not to take it that seriously. But it does not mean that when the album wants to get emotional it fails because it is hard to take seriously. When the tension builds in the second act and then explodes with a big twist with "The Path that Divides", I really feel completely drawn in and I feel what the story wants me to feel, just like a good concept album shall do. In some weird way, how the story is conveyed is just so good that even if the story itself is a bit awkward it does not hinder a lot; kind of the opposite compared to what happens with other concept albums, and to be honest, I prefer it this way - even though the best of all is to have both the really great story and the right way to put it into music.

In the end, I really love The Astonishing, even though I listened to it from one end to the other without any big pauses only twice. What I try to do is to listen to some strings of songs that kind of form a "scene" on their own, like from A Savior in the Square to Three Days, and it works well this way to keep on listening to it on a regular basis. I've also come to really appreciate all tracks, the slow ones which kind of interfered with my enjoyment the first time I now really like. Finally, a word on the sound: the production is great even though I know some complain about the drums (but they sound a bit like I&W, don't they?) and I love the way there is a LOT of piano and acoustic work, it is feels like a gentle "stream of sound" (best instance of this, the begininng of Ravenskill!). Finally James does a good job trying to portray all these characters even though for some it can be hard to tell who's who, but I really like what he did with Nafaryus. I just think there are some moments where he tries a bit too much, like Act of Faythe, where the instrumental ending bit is better for my ears!  :lol Anyway, enough said about the Astonishing, time to move onto the next record!

...Which is SFAM. Yeah, I guess I just wanted to keep on going with concept albums while I was at it. Now, what can I say? I perfectly understand why it is the favorite of a lot of people, I was just mind-blown by the creativity, the musicianship, all the different moods... Each track is a classic. The emotional impact is big. What I can tell I remember the most from my first listening session is how I was NOT prepared for Finally Free. At all. You know, after the enlightened conclusion brought by TSCO, I was expecting it to be the last epic track which feels glorious to go on with Nicholas finally feeling at peace with himself, and the title seemed to suggest that. Then I heard those bright arpeggios and was like "yeah this is it, epic happy ending"... but... then... something stranged happened... in a subtle and yet fascinating manner, the air arround me started to feel colder... and I could not move and was not even premitted to think about what was happening to me... then I heard the piano coming in and took a look at the lyrics booklet and went completely "oh my god"... then everything felt completely surreal 'till the end... and the words "finally free" got a completely new meaning in my mind... Yeah I know I am exaggerating a bit, but really, this is something I'm not soon to forget. Might be my favorite track just because of that...

I don't really know what else to add about SFAM, when I wrote so much for the Astonishing in comparison, sorry if you would have liked more detailed thoughts. So I will continue with the next one...

Octavarium. This one really feels like more like a collection of songs like Systematic Chaos, the big difference being that they flow much better into each other than they do on SC. Well, it was done on purpose of course, to go with the theme of the album. I really like the heavier songs, TROAE does a great job as an opener and as a part of the 12-step Suite, being more concise than the others. The references to TDS are great and the chorus is one of the most tasty DT has done, with the guitar doing this kind of distorted effect behind, this "I am ready" bit really is unique. Also, already knowing the Octavarium song, I can tell you I was surprised by the ending! Panic Attack really conveys well the feeling of urgency it describes and the Muse-influenced part that comes in the second half is really well-done, it is incredible to hear JLB sing this way. However, I feel that the influence really goes too a bit too far on Never Enough - I don't know the Muse songs it was most probably inspired by, but even without that I can tell it does not feel as natural as Panic Attack... still sounds absolutely great and interesting to listen to, but it is one I will most probably only hear whenI give the whole album a spin. Now, you must wonder what I think of I Walk Beside You which is also heavily influenced? Well, I do like it, it is a fine little song with really simple melodies but where you can tell the band is confident with the mood they're aiming for and JLB does a great job, especially on the last chorus. The only part I like less is the bridge where the "oooh"s feel a bit forced. Now, I would like to speak about the other ballad, The Answer Lies Within, which I find really wonderful. It is also simple and straight-to-the-point (I don't know how Portnoy managed to restrain himself so much for a whole song!) but the chemistry really works for me. I just find it really inspiring and it was a totally unexpected grower for me. These Walls is another song I was pleasantly surprised with, the verses are wonderful with this hit-hat work going on and the smooth keyboard, whereas the rest of the song really has a great more energetic vide. And I really like the lyrics. Finally, Sacrificed Sons is the classic 10-minute DT song with an instrumental break in the middle and JLB totally owns it, he's absolutely stellar to convey this feeling of tension, oppresion and sadness at the same time. The orchestra really adds to the intensity and overall it really is that: an intense song. It took time to grow on me as well.

Overall, a really great album where the band really focuses less on technique apart from some moments. It was one that clearly had to grow on me, but now I find that it is one of their most balanced, well thought-out, regular album, a little breather between ToT and SC. It is great to listen to it as a whole and end with the glorious title track. Now, the last one I've listened to so far is...

Black Clouds and Silver Linings. I got it last week, so it is still fresh in my mind. I find that it kind of fills in the shoes of the most "classic" DT album and most representative of what they are overall. That's what struck me the most upon first listening. It clearly was not one that surprised me that much now that I am used to their sound, but it still high-quality. ANTR is one of those songs that feels like 100% trademark DT but at the same time that has its own caracteristics, its own flavour, still making it unique in the whole discography. The same goes for TBOT and TCOT and those two are really, really beautiful, I think they could be a great introduction to the band. Once again, it's like completely classic but really inspired, with absolutely wonderful melodies. AROP and Wither are the two more simple songs and they are great at doing their own respective job, even though after being pleasantly surprised by the catchiness of the chorus of AROP, the one of Wither disappointed me a bit. Finally, I really liked how TSF concluded the 12 Step-Suite and I tried to catch as much references as I could. Some transitions could have been better but I still really dig it, it may be my second favorite of the suite, at least because those last two steps are really, really awesome! I am a fan of the "I am responsible" part, the way JLB sings it is incredible, "I am res-PON-sible!'  :metal Also, the reprise that really surprised me the most and that I find absolutely incredible is the one from TDS "time to break through the prison wall" section - I was really glad they chose to re-use that one because it is one of my favorite parts of the suite and it appeared only once, and they arranged it in such a brillant way that it really feels fresh and new.

So, here's what I had to say about those 4 albums, I wish I had done a post for each one as soon as I could after listening to it for the first time, like I did for SDOIT. I hope this thread is still relevant - but if not I can understand, there are individual ones for each album after all and it's not as though I had been really active on DTF sharing my DT experience. Anyway, I will try to post more regularly if possible, and I'll try to write my thoughts on the next album I get as soon as I can (it should be Awake unless I change my mind) so that I don't end up writing such a long post like this one once again when I have listened to the whole discohraphy, it takes waaaay too much time!  :rollin

Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Lethean on April 21, 2018, 06:59:08 PM
I enjoyed reading your thoughts.  :)  What is your favorite album so far?  (Totally fine if you can't pick just one).

Very happy to see that you enjoyed The Astonishing and Scenes from a Memory so much - two albums that I really love as well.  And I completely agree with you about the "I am responsible" part of The Shattered Fortress. :)

Did you have any thoughts/issues with the lyrics to The Count of Tuscany?  I've never liked them that much, and yet, it's a case for me of the music being *so* good that it completely overrides the lyrics for me.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on April 22, 2018, 02:23:51 AM
My favorite album at the moment would be either SFAM or Six Degrees, but it's really hard to choose...

Regarding the lyrics of The Count of Tuscany, as I always take the time to sit down with the booklet, I really chose to follow it like a story. When I realized where it was heading, and when the ending came, it was the kind of twist which made me smile, I was like "it's pretty humorous, it changes from the usual 'epics' ". So perfectly fine with me, it ain't anything poetic for sure but I like how Petrucci chose to go down that 'odd' direction, for me it was also part of the surprise of the song as well as the music, so 100% proggy I would say!  ;) But yeah I listen to Ayreon on a regular basis so I may be biased on that... Still, I suspect that the encounter between JP and the count did not really happen this way, it's too much of a ridiculous misundestanding. I see him better having a good time with the guy and then say something like"Man thank you for what you've shown me, I may write about you in one of our songs one day!"  :D I can understand why the lyrics could bother some people though because they feel like they don't belong with the almost too beautiful music which deserved more than 'this'... but I have already Illumination Theory structured in a similar way if I want that, so I don't mind. Yeah, really cool lyrics, different from the usual.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on April 22, 2018, 06:18:21 AM
The decision will become easier with time. Clearly SDOIT is the band's magnum opus...

Glad you're enjoying the band so much dude. I love reading thoughts from enthustiastic new fans who are just loving the music. Makes me wish I could go all the way back and experience the band for the first time.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: gzarruk on April 22, 2018, 08:36:58 AM
The decision will become easier with time. Clearly SDOIT is the band's magnum opus...

Glad you're enjoying the band so much dude. I love reading thoughts from enthustiastic new fans who are just loving the music. Makes me wish I could go all the way back and experience the band for the first time.

Agree with all of this :tup
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: TAC on April 22, 2018, 08:53:26 AM

Black Clouds and Silver Linings.   The same goes for TBOT and TCOT and those two are really, really beautiful, I think they could be a great introduction to the band. Once again, it's like completely classic but really inspired, with absolutely wonderful melodies.

I feel that these two songs are two of Dream Theater's finest, and they both sit in my DT Top 15.


I am a fan of the "I am responsible" part, the way JLB sings it is incredible, "I am res-PON-sible!'  :metal

I love this part too. The ending to TSF. I don't love the song that much with all of the reusing of old stuff, but sometimes I think of the individual reliving everything he's been through and THEN coming to the realization that he is "responsible", I find it makes a little more sense. Not sure if that's how it was intended or not.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Lethean on April 22, 2018, 10:48:47 AM
My favorite album at the moment would be either SFAM or Six Degrees, but it's really hard to choose... 

Those two are my favorites as well. :) Although after two years I might be ready to throw The Astonishing into that mix too.

Quote
Regarding the lyrics of The Count of Tuscany, as I always take the time to sit down with the booklet, I really chose to follow it like a story. When I realized where it was heading, and when the ending came, it was the kind of twist which made me smile, I was like "it's pretty humorous, it changes from the usual 'epics' ". So perfectly fine with me, it ain't anything poetic for sure but I like how Petrucci chose to go down that 'odd' direction, for me it was also part of the surprise of the song as well as the music, so 100% proggy I would say!  ;) But yeah I listen to Ayreon on a regular basis so I may be biased on that... Still, I suspect that the encounter between JP and the count did not really happen this way, it's too much of a ridiculous misundestanding. I see him better having a good time with the guy and then say something like"Man thank you for what you've shown me, I may write about you in one of our songs one day!"  :D I can understand why the lyrics could bother some people though because they feel like they don't belong with the almost too beautiful music which deserved more than 'this'... but I have already Illumination Theory structured in a similar way if I want that, so I don't mind. Yeah, really cool lyrics, different from the usual.

That's cool. :) I like that approach.  I kinda got to that point as well, but it was only because I think the song is so good musically.  Now I kinda laugh, in a positive way, at "now wait a minute man," whereas at first I found it more cringey.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on April 22, 2018, 01:01:43 PM
I feel that these two songs are two of Dream Theater's finest, and they both sit in my DT Top 15.

Completely agree, the music here is just plain beautiful. It is too early for me to speak about a top 15 though, but I'm curious what's yours, if you don't mind?

I love this part too. The ending to TSF. I don't love the song that much with all of the reusing of old stuff, but sometimes I think of the individual reliving everything he's been through and THEN coming to the realization that he is "responsible", I find it makes a little more sense. Not sure if that's how it was intended or not.

I get that feeling two, but surprisingly TSF is starting to get a lot of appreciation from me even though I was not expecting it because it is such this kind of medley-thing and some transitions felt a bit too abrupt at first. I'm now starting to find it flows really well and covers all the ground of the 12-Step suite in term of mood and that all of the motives reused are really awesome and not just simply 'put in there'... I don't know, it might be my n°1 or 2 of the suite at the moment.

Those two are my favorites as well. :) Although after two years I might be ready to throw The Astonishing into that mix too.

I think TA is right behind those two for me!



Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: TAC on April 22, 2018, 01:25:13 PM
I feel that these two songs are two of Dream Theater's finest, and they both sit in my DT Top 15.

Completely agree, the music here is just plain beautiful. It is too early for me to speak about a top 15 though, but I'm curious what's yours, if you don't mind?

Something like this:


1. Learning To Live
2. Octavarium
3. Scarred
4. The Killing Hand (LATM version)
5. Space Dye Vest
6. Take The Time
7. Through My Words/Fatal Tragedy
8. Breaking All Illusions
9. The Count Of Tuscany
10. A Change Of Seasons
11. Disappear
12. Lost Not Forgotten
13. The Best Of Times
14. Outcry
15. Endless Sacrifice
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: KevShmev on April 22, 2018, 01:32:12 PM
I loved Black Clouds... a lot when it was first out, and while I don't think it's fair to say it hasn't aged well, it still sits as my 2nd least favorite DT record.

I am still trying to wrap my head around where I would rank The Astonishing, but I think 5th or 6th still sounds about right.  The top 3 are set in stone - Awake, Images and Words and Scenes from a Memory - and 6DOIT has 4th place locked down.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on April 22, 2018, 01:40:53 PM
Something like this:


1. Learning To Live
2. Octavarium
3. Scarred
4. The Killing Hand (LATM version)
5. Space Dye Vest
6. Take The Time
7. Through My Words/Fatal Tragedy
8. Breaking All Illusions
9. The Count Of Tuscany
10. A Change Of Seasons
11. Disappear
12. Lost Not Forgotten
13. The Best Of Times
14. Outcry
15. Endless Sacrifice

Wow, I'm kinda surprised to see the Take the Time here and that ES is your favorite song from Train of Thought. Good to see LtL number 1 though instead of ACOS! ;)
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: TAC on April 22, 2018, 01:46:27 PM
Wow, I'm kinda surprised to see the Take the Time here and that ES is your favorite song from Train of Thought. Good to see LtL number 1 though instead of ACOS! ;)

Love TTT. Always have. Seems I forgot Metropolis Pt1. 

I had ES a lot higher, but the ADTOE tracks have jumped ahead of it. ES is such a great live song, and I am a huge fan of the instrumental section. My second fave is This Dying Soul, which is still Top 20, but it has also been a bit displaced by the ADTOE tracks.


I loved Black Clouds... a lot when it was first out, and while I don't think it's fair to say it hasn't aged well, it still sits as my 2nd least favorite DT record.

I'm just not sure where to put it. I could not live without TBOT & TCOT, so using the desert isle test, I'd have to take it over a half of their other albums, yet, I probably wouldn't rate it as high. I'm not in love with anything else on the album.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on April 22, 2018, 03:00:53 PM
TTT will forever hold a special place in my heart. Nothing else on I&W sounds like it, and when I first got into DT, that was the first album I checked out (after hearing A Change of Seasons), and there have been very few songs that blew my mind the way TTT did. And it still sounds so unique in their catalogue, it has this cool, confident groove, every second of that song is fantastic. And James is a big part of it: nails every note, every syllable!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on April 22, 2018, 05:53:41 PM
RKW, which albums have you not heard yet?
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on April 22, 2018, 10:53:43 PM
RKW, which albums have you not heard yet?

WDADU, Awake, FII and ADTOE (even though I already know two songs from this one).
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on April 22, 2018, 11:23:28 PM
RKW, which albums have you not heard yet?

WDADU, Awake, FII and ADTOE (even though I already know two songs from this one).

All of those are great albums, although I consider WDADU to be their weakest by far (for obvious reasons). Hope you enjoy them!!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on May 09, 2018, 12:30:39 PM
So I've received Awake today, and had the time to listen to it twice so far, I'm currently listening through it for a third time.

And to be honest, I feel like I am a bit disappointed, something that had not really happened so far. It's kind of hard to explain, but it feels "off" for the most part. The first three songs feel like they have some interesting bits but are overall just bland, the chorus are a really weak point, I mean I'm hearing the chorus of Innocence Faded right now and it just feels forced to me, like they put one because they had to, even though I obviously know it wasn't the case. JLB singing also seems weird to me, like trying to reach that "edgy" sound they sometimes have now but without reaching its goal ; and when he goes with his more classical singing like I&W it doesn't feel as passionate.

Now I was looking forward to this album "big songs", and the mind beside itself suite feels like it their worst strings of connected songs, erotomania being the worst instrumental I've heard so far. My first thought when it started was "wait, it sounds like that little ACOS section that is one I always thought didn't fit and should have not been included..." and it keeps on going giving me the same vibe. Even when it tries to get more emotional near the end, somehow, I don't feel it, like the keyboards which should provide atmosphere are a bit buried behind the drums. Voices does sound more interesting and I hope it will be a grower. The others songs 'till Scarred I don't know what to think of them yet, they have failed to really draw my attention even though I was doing nothing but listening completely focused. Oh, I remember thinking LSOA sounded rather great. Scarred is another one I hope will be a grower, for now I've noticed interesting ideas like the beginnng and the end, kind of obvious, but I still feel like it wants to create something unique but does not really reach its original vision. Space-Dye Vest is at least the one I surely liked, it feels like a really great closer, has a real sad vibe I was expecting due to its reputation, still I wished the piano (I guess it's keyboard?) sounded better, it deserves a more grandiose and less "cheap" feel.

Overall, I am kind of surprised, but not in a good way... I know it has still to grow on me and I sincerely hope it will, but man a song like CIAW is probably my least enjoyed DT song so far, and one I don't feel like listening to again, which never happened till now. DT has alaways had some songs I have to be in the right mood to listen to, but this doesn't even seem to be one of them. The production, even though from an objective point of view it sounds great, feels completely cold and even the great moments here and there are not on par with the listening experience I expect of DT partly because of it. I feel that the best vocals from JLB here are his soft ones, but it feels like they are "distant" and you kind of have to struggle to hear them because they are on the same level as the instruments.

In the end, it feels like a debut album to me, and since I&W was really great (even though it had some of the things that Awake suffers from, but in a negligible proportion), I was not expecting that from an album that came after! (except FII but it seems that one did not end up like the band wanted it because of the label). It has some good parts, not awsome ones, but also what I find to be a lot of filler right now. It's like the band had this vision for this dark, moody, completely unique, otherworldly, sometimes more classic and fun album but failed to reach it. And that's something I did not thought was going to happen, because so far, no matter what the "vision" they had in mind for a song was, I always found that, in the end that, they pulled it right or at least the best they could, and were always like creating songs that are more like true compositions you have to respect despite what you may think of it... I don't know if you understand what I mean... I hope I will one day draw the same conclusion from Awake, but right now it don't see it coming, especially for the first part of the album.

I know some of you here really love that album so I hope you won't be disappointed by my initial thoughts, what I can promise you for sure is that I will keep on listening anyway to have a more firm grasp of this album. It seems I'm just the kind who wants to really have a detailed opinion of these kind of things I guess!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on May 09, 2018, 12:54:14 PM
Nothing wrong with different opinions! I for one like a lot of Awake, but sometimes think James's inflection and delivery are too obnoxious and over-the-top. I also think Voices and Scarred are two of DT's worst songs, so I'm in the minority there. It's fun to read your thoughts on the albums. Awake has this distinctly 90s vibe to it, not even Falling Into Infinity has it, and I can't really describe what it is. The sound makes me think of dirty city streets on a cloudy, slightly rainy day. Not sure why, but that's what the whole album makes me think of. I kind of like that.

It's nice to hear you like Space-Dye Vest a lot. One of my favorite DT tunes. :)
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Mark Levinson Jr. on May 09, 2018, 12:57:39 PM
I would recommend Live At Budokan. TOT was brand new and they really featured and expanded the songs on that album.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: pg1067 on May 09, 2018, 02:00:09 PM
So I've received Awake today, and had the time to listen to it twice so far, I'm currently listening through it for a third time.

It's interesting, I think, to hear/read someone else's reactions to these albums out of order.

Keep in mind that, when Awake was released, most folks had only heard I&W.  I don't remember when I first got WDADU in relation to Awake, but it wasn't really available where I live (Southern California) until after I&W was released.  On the other hand, you wrote a couple weeks ago that you had heard everything other than WDADU, Awake, FII and ADTOE.

As best I can recall, I really like 6:00 and Caught in a Web right out of the gate.  I've never liked Innocence Faded.  It's easily my least favorite song on Awake, and probably a bottom 10 DT song.  In my view, it was a bad effort to write a "hit single."  It took me quite a while to really wrap my arms around A Mind Beside Itself.  Erotomania was only DT's second instrumental, and I think it compares favorably to Ytse Jam, although I agree that it was eclipsed by most or all of the later instrumentals (which you were already familiar with).  The Silent Man is good, but nothing special.  Only after a number of years did I really embrace Voices -- and, by extension, the entirety of AMBI.  For me, the second half of the album starts out with two huge duds, but LSoaD is a REALLY cool song, and Scarred is a top ten DT song.  SDV is cool, but it's certainly an outlier among DT songs (for obvious reasons if you know the story behind it).  Like you, I remember feeling like the keys took too much of a backseat on the album, but I can see how it could be off-putting to someone listening to the albums out of order.

I can only imagine how disappointing you'll find FII to be!  ;-)
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: gzarruk on May 09, 2018, 03:03:29 PM
My opinions on Awake have changed a lot over the years. Some years ago, I would rank it in my top 3 DT albums, but now I find more things I don’t like about it than I did back then. TSM is one of my least favorite DT songs, and it’s not a matter of it being an acoustic, because I love Wait of Sleep, for example, but it just doesn’t click with me.

Innocence Faded feels disjointed and it’s not a song I want to listen too often. The Mirror is good, but I think it’s overrated, Lie is much much better, but people usually prefer TM.  SDV is cool, but I don’t think it’s the best song to close the album with.

The real highlights for me are LSOAD, Scarred and Voices. The rest of the songs are great, but don’t reach the level of the 3 I just mentioned.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Peter Mc on May 09, 2018, 06:49:28 PM
I remember buying Awake after hearing Images & Words and ACOS and I actually returned it and got my money back.  When Falling Into Infinity was finally released, and I enjoyed it, I went back and bought Awake again and loved it.  I can understand a bad reaction to the album though as I had a bad reaction as well at first.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Dream Team on May 09, 2018, 07:19:22 PM
I had the exact same reaction to Awake as I had previously only heard Images. Since then it has moved up and then back down in my rankings, and Lifting Shadows is about the only song I’d go out of my way to listen to.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on May 09, 2018, 11:15:32 PM
I was disappointed with Awake when I first heard it all those years ago. But over time, the beauty and passion of that record came to life for me all of a sudden. I love it now, such an amazing album!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on May 10, 2018, 06:00:09 AM
It's interesting to read your different opinions! I gave the album a few more spins and here's what I think now, you will see it has not changed that much:

I'm starting to like Voices better, it's probably the best song after SDV, but it's still weaker than most of their material. Erotomania is also growing on me even though I still find that it sounds to similar to a section of ACOS in the beginning and that there are unmemorable moments. The same goes for the middle section of Scarred where I find the riff to be a bit like one in ACOS and I'm not really fond of it. The song is rather good though, the "how come" section is the best, there is a good guitar solo near the end, but apart from that I still find it a bit bland, the riffs, the chorus, it doesn't do anything special for me. LSOA is definitely also a highlight there, but I still find that it could have somewhat been better, but maybe that's just really due to the production.

6:00 is just okay, the vocal delivery is still bugging me though. IF has a lot of great ideas but the chorus just ruins everything, and the instrumental section at the end just feels kind of there, it had the potential to be a great song but failed. The duo The Mirror/Lie is pretty interesting but doesn't feel like it gets anywhere, there are some great instrumental bits though like the SDV reprise I noticed. CIAW and TSM are the worst I've heard of DT. TSM just has one interesting vocal line, but I really don't understand how JP ever thought this was going to be a good song and a good conclusion to a 20-minute string of songs. CIAW intro is enough to turn me off, it just does not sound good, at all.

Overall, the second half of the album starting with Erotomania is obviously better, but it still sounds like a demo album to me, sounding all kinda the same, with ideas thrown here and there, some great, some a bit lame, and trying to make it all stick together without a clear direction. It does not feel as professional from a songwriting point of view as the rest of their discography, at least from what I know. The 90s feel itself does not bug me because I also find that I&W has it, but here it only works from time to time.

I can only imagine how disappointing you'll find FII to be!  ;-)

Well I don't intend to buy it, like I don't think I will get WDADU. I will still give it a listen obvisouly because it seems there are some memorable songs nonetheless. I am already expecting it to be pretty disappointing according to the general opinion, but the background of that album at least gives it some extenuating circumstances.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on May 10, 2018, 07:12:20 AM
CIAW's beginning has always sounded off to me, there's something about the way the keyboard melody rises and falls the way it does that isn't satisfying to me. That said, I've come to enjoy it over time - maybe you will too, but it's fine if you don't  :) I love the rest of that song. Shame you don't like 6:00, that's one of my favorite DT songs ever with a killer chorus (imo). That's one of the songs where James's delivery is perfect to me, so it's interesting to read the opposite from someone who's hearing it for the first time(s).
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Lethean on May 10, 2018, 09:28:37 AM
I really enjoy reading about your discovery of the band, RKW.  I'm glad you've found them and I remember how great it was when I found them for myself.

Awake is one of my favorite DT albums, but it definitely did take some time to grow on me.  The vocals especially because his singing was different from what I'd gotten used to with Scenes.  But as I kept listening my feelings changed.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: bosk1 on May 10, 2018, 09:46:16 AM
TSM just has one interesting vocal line, but I really don't understand how JP ever thought this was going to be a good song and a good conclusion to a 20-minute string of songs.

I take it you aren't a fan of Yes then, or else the connection and the reason for doing a song like that to conclude the suite would be obvious.

For me, Awake was a unique sort of animal.  Like you, I discovered it later.  But not THAT later.  It was in late 2001, maybe early 2002.  I had I&W since '92, but wasn't a HUGE fan.  DT pretty much dropped off the map for me until SFAM.  So at this point, I had I&W, SFAM, and LSFNY.  I bought Awake and FII at the same time and listened to both.  FII was offputting at the time (although it would really grow on me).  I liked the songs on Awake, but the production was very dry and different, and it took me awhile to adjust.  I immediately liked 6:00, The Mirror, and Lie.  I did NOT like IF, CIAW, and Scarred, although Scarred would later become a top 10 song for me.  Scarred and The Mirror are easily my two favorites from the album.  But Scarred took awhile to click.  A Big part of that was the REALLY abrupt transitions.  Once I got over that, I began to appreciate all the other great stuff that is going on in that song.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: pg1067 on May 10, 2018, 10:13:24 AM
TSM just has one interesting vocal line, but I really don't understand how JP ever thought this was going to be a good song and a good conclusion to a 20-minute string of songs.

I take it you aren't a fan of Yes then, or else the connection and the reason for doing a song like that to conclude the suite would be obvious.

Interesting...I'm a huge Yes fan and any connection between TSM as the concluding section in AMBI never occurred to me.  What are you getting at with this?
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: geeeemo on May 10, 2018, 11:45:50 AM
How exciting for you to be discovering DT! I too am very recently there. It has been 2 years and 4 months, and this Mother's Day will be my 2 year anniversary of seeing them for the 1st time. I have been to 3 concerts and 1 G3 :heart

I discovered DT mostly on Spotify as I was coming back into music after being totally into my mom thing and was wrapped up in pirates :yarr, kings, baseball, soccer and homework. Great days. But my new great days have been listening to this band!

After the initial discovery, I noticed my hubby had awake in the CD tower. I plopped it in and wondered, "who the hell is singing?".  It took a bit to grow, although I really liked Voices and the Mirror right away.  A quite a bit later discovery - just had to get past the opening sounds which I wasn't used to with DT yet - was 6:00! What a cool and groovy song.  One of my faves to be sure.

I see you haven't tried ADTOE, which has now become my favorite! lol! I have had several favorites along the way, as when I first listen (SFAM!) I cannot get enough! But for now anyway, I have settled here. I Love Every Song. The ones I kinda went 'Meh" at first I gave more time to and then, just oh..Far From Heaven makes me cry - I learned from an interview it is about how a child feels inside when parents have their own expectations. I wondered about my kids.....And so on..

Now I have pretty much learned all the albums (not so much WDADU, because I need JLB). I have just in the last couple of months been able to listen to other bands, but I still really only love DT at this point.  I am sooo excited to wait for the first album from them to be new to the world and to me at the same time! I love all their stuff - even FII - it's all so different, and yet so only DT. 
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: Ninjabait on May 10, 2018, 12:06:35 PM
This analysis might help you appreciate Octavarium a little more. (https://dt.spatang.com/octavarium.php) It points out a lot of the details and stuff that aren't apparent on first listen. You may want to check out The Astonishing threads here too, since there's a lot of nuggets and deeper layers of meaning that people find and post there.

Awake isn't for everyone, for sure. I know I personally have never cared for it. Don't beat yourself up for not diggin it.

And I'm curious to see what the Yes/The Silent Man connection is. The only thing I can think of is the coda to Roundabout.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: pg1067 on May 10, 2018, 01:34:27 PM
And I'm curious to see what the Yes/The Silent Man connection is. The only thing I can think of is the coda to Roundabout.

The only thing that occurred to me is that TSM is not dissimilar to the "Soon" section at the end of "Gates of Delirium," but that seems to be quite a stretch, so I'll just wait for Bosk to clarify.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: KevShmev on May 10, 2018, 09:29:24 PM
The Silent Man is a perfect ending to the suite. Not every long piece of music has to end in bombastic, over the top fashion.  It is easy to miss at first, but I love how the chorus to The Silent Man is first heard as a theme in Erotomania (JP's lead somewhat near the end). 

As someone who considers Awake DT's best record and one of my five favorite records by anyone ever, I will say that it can be a tough obstacle at first.  I got it the day it came out and I was taken aback by how different it was from I&W.  I was like, "I don't know about this," but a cool part here and a cool part there kept me listening to it and then one day it all just came together out of nowhere and it was like winning the musical lottery.  I had a similar experience with Queensryche's Promised Land shortly thereafter.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on May 11, 2018, 12:42:22 AM
Now that's a lot to answer, I'll try to keep it organized...

I take it you aren't a fan of Yes then, or else the connection and the reason for doing a song like that to conclude the suite would be obvious.

Well I don't know much about Yes so I can't tell you.

The Silent Man is a perfect ending to the suite. Not every long piece of music has to end in bombastic, over the top fashion.  It is easy to miss at first, but I love how the chorus to The Silent Man is first heard as a theme in Erotomania (JP's lead somewhat near the end). 

I agree it does not need to be bombastic, and I get what it wants to convey, a kind of intimate conclusion, I've nothing against the idea itself; it's the execution that doesn't work for me. The verses are bland except for the melody "Pray the won't ask/Behind the stained glass. I did notice the chorus melody in Erotomania, but I can't put my finger on why it sounds good in the Erotomania bit but just feels awkward in the song itself. If at least it was not a "chorus" and appeared only once, ending the song with the more sad note of the verses maybe I'd prefer it. I think this songs suffers from the issue that a lot other songs have, something that feels forced to me, but since it's so short it doesn't have anything else that can save it for me. For instance, while I still don't like IF chorus, I'm starting to see the "bigger picture" of the song and enjoying it more as a whole, even though I still regret its flaws.

That being said, I'm starting to like Scarred more and more, it doesn't elevate as one of their best songs to me, but I'd put it somewhere near songs like TTT/UAGM. I feel like the song has two vibes, a more fun, light one and a darker one, and the transitions between the two are a bit confusing because the song feels like it can't really settle on an idea. The chorus, which is not exceptional but at least sounds natural, should have appeared only twice I think; it feels a little out of place in the middle after the emotional "How come..." section. But it's starting to sound really good anyway, the drums and the bass work are rather impressive! I've yet to really dig the solos but they sound good too.

In the same way, I'm starting to like AMBI more and more, except TSM, but I still wish Erotomania had a better introduction, because it just starts without creating any special emotion, even though that comes later - plus I really hear ACOS every time, I can't be the only one? I think that's one issue I have with this album; now I realize most of their songs always have a good introduction, something that puts you in the right mood, and this is lacking a bit here for some - the worst still being CIAW, because of that I haven't listened to it as much as the others and still don't really know it (plus the chorus just sounds so unnatural once again, and once again it sounds better in Erotomania if my ears are not deceiving me? sounds like they did a lot of little connections, like I also heard SDV in Scarred I think?).

This analysis might help you appreciate Octavarium a little more. (https://dt.spatang.com/octavarium.php) It points out a lot of the details and stuff that aren't apparent on first listen. You may want to check out The Astonishing threads here too, since there's a lot of nuggets and deeper layers of meaning that people find and post there.

Don't worry, I've already checked a lot of that and yeah, it's still kind of really impressive to see how much thought they put into this. I really appreciate Octavarium, as I've already said the song was my introduction to the band and like everyone here I think it's pure genius; the others are great too even if Never Enough is a bit subpar and I love TALW more and more each time it pops up; I am pleasantly surprised because I thought I would skip it most of the time. As for the Astonishing, it's probably ranking 3rd for me now, and part of it comes from all of this layered construction.

I see you haven't tried ADTOE, which has now become my favorite! lol! I have had several favorites along the way, as when I first listen (SFAM!) I cannot get enough! But for now anyway, I have settled here. I Love Every Song. The ones I kinda went 'Meh" at first I gave more time to and then, just oh..Far From Heaven makes me cry - I learned from an interview it is about how a child feels inside when parents have their own expectations. I wondered about my kids.....And so on..

Yeah, ADTOE is going to be the last one I will get, and it sounds like a very promising album, plus I could not resist and listened several times to OTBOA and BAI and they are really good, especially BAI, wow, that's the band at its best! Wish I had resisted though to keep the surprise. :-X

Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: bosk1 on May 11, 2018, 07:57:22 AM
Now that's a lot to answer, I'll try to keep it organized...

I take it you aren't a fan of Yes then, or else the connection and the reason for doing a song like that to conclude the suite would be obvious.

Well I don't know much about Yes so I can't tell you.

Seeing my quote again in context, it comes across a bit differently than I intended.  Sorry if it may have sounded a bit condescending or "know-it-all"-ish.  That wasn't my intent. 

I remember the band commenting on it, but I don't remember for sure where.  I think it may have been the liner notes in the Awake Demos, or in the commentary on LSFNY.  But I remember either Portnoy or Petrucci saying that they intentionally modeled the suite after a Yes album that had either a suite or a long epic that ended with an acoustic section, and that it was a very intentional homage that Yes fans would pick up on.  I also remember fan reaction agreeing.  I wish I could remember the specifics, but like yourself, I am not a yes fan, so the connection is not obvious to me either. 

As to TSM itself and the suite as a whole, both took awhile to grow on me.  What ultimately did it was the aforementioned LSFNY.  Dream Theater isn't necessarily a band where I go out of my way to recommend live performances over studio.  But the LSFNY DVD is just amazing.  The performance is far from flawless, but it is a joy to watch.  The suite is part of the "bonus" footage at the end, which also includes fantastic renditions of Learning To Live and A Change of Seasons.  But it really brings the AMBI suite to live for me, especially the version of TSM with its beefed-up ending.  If you have time to sit down and actually watch a show, do it.  I don't think you will be disappointed.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: pg1067 on May 11, 2018, 11:08:16 AM
I remember the band commenting on it, but I don't remember for sure where.  I think it may have been the liner notes in the Awake Demos, or in the commentary on LSFNY.  But I remember either Portnoy or Petrucci saying that they intentionally modeled the suite after a Yes album that had either a suite or a long epic that ended with an acoustic section, and that it was a very intentional homage that Yes fans would pick up on.  I also remember fan reaction agreeing.  I wish I could remember the specifics, but like yourself, I am not a yes fan, so the connection is not obvious to me either.

I've watched the LSFNY commentary more times than I can count, so I don't think it's on there (especially since the commentary doesn't cover the bonus material).  I don't have the Awake Demos, so maybe it's there.  Are the Awake Demos sufficiently different from what's on the album that it's worth picking up?


But the LSFNY DVD is just amazing.  The performance is far from flawless, but it is a joy to watch.  The suite is part of the "bonus" footage at the end, which also includes fantastic renditions of Learning To Live and A Change of Seasons.  But it really brings the AMBI suite to live for me, especially the version of TSM with its beefed-up ending.  If you have time to sit down and actually watch a show, do it.  I don't think you will be disappointed.

I couldn't agree more.  LFSNY is one of my all-time favorite live DVDs.  The commentary track alone is worth the price.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: bosk1 on May 11, 2018, 11:36:40 AM
I remember the band commenting on it, but I don't remember for sure where.  I think it may have been the liner notes in the Awake Demos, or in the commentary on LSFNY.  But I remember either Portnoy or Petrucci saying that they intentionally modeled the suite after a Yes album that had either a suite or a long epic that ended with an acoustic section, and that it was a very intentional homage that Yes fans would pick up on.  I also remember fan reaction agreeing.  I wish I could remember the specifics, but like yourself, I am not a yes fan, so the connection is not obvious to me either.

I've watched the LSFNY commentary more times than I can count, so I don't think it's on there (especially since the commentary doesn't cover the bonus material).  I don't have the Awake Demos, so maybe it's there.  Are the Awake Demos sufficiently different from what's on the album that it's worth picking up?

Ah, that's right.  I had forgotten that there was no commentary on the bonus material.  I think it must be on the Awake demos liner notes then, but I could be misremembering the source.  I meant to check at home last night and forgot.  Where is Scotty when you need him?  I'm sure that guy knows the answer.

As far as whether it is worth picking up, it depends.  As far as the music itself, it doesn't really bring much to the table.  If you are looking for alternate versions, or something like that, it will be disappointing.  The mix is more raw, and there are subtle differences here and there.  But by and large, the demos don't really bring anything new to the table.  I bought it simply as a completest, and because of all the amazing insight you get from MP's liner notes commentary.  From that perspective, I'd say, yeah, it's worth it.  But if you wouldn't buy it for only those reasons, I would probably not bother.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: gzarruk on May 11, 2018, 11:43:18 AM
But the LSFNY DVD is just amazing.  The performance is far from flawless, but it is a joy to watch.  The suite is part of the "bonus" footage at the end, which also includes fantastic renditions of Learning To Live and A Change of Seasons.  But it really brings the AMBI suite to live for me, especially the version of TSM with its beefed-up ending.  If you have time to sit down and actually watch a show, do it.  I don't think you will be disappointed.

I couldn't agree more.  LFSNY is one of my all-time favorite live DVDs.  The commentary track alone is worth the price.

Yeah, very underrated live album for sure. It, along with SFAM, was one of the first DT records I listened to (and watched) and, man, I loved the band inmediately :metal
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: pg1067 on May 11, 2018, 11:47:53 AM
As far as whether it is worth picking up, it depends.  As far as the music itself, it doesn't really bring much to the table.  If you are looking for alternate versions, or something like that, it will be disappointing.  The mix is more raw, and there are subtle differences here and there.  But by and large, the demos don't really bring anything new to the table.  I bought it simply as a completest, and because of all the amazing insight you get from MP's liner notes commentary.  From that perspective, I'd say, yeah, it's worth it.  But if you wouldn't buy it for only those reasons, I would probably not bother.

I love the liner notes on the I&W demos and the making of SFAM, but those two have a lot of other stuff that make them worthwhile buys.  I'm not a completist, so it sounds like the liner notes would be the only real selling point for me.  Thanks!   :tup
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on May 12, 2018, 01:21:49 PM
The album is slowly growing on me. I'm getting more familiar with it and am trying to get more and more what they wanted to convey with it. I feel that I was maybe wrong in the beginning to say that they tried to create something dark and failed - they did not try to create something THAT dark in the first place I think. Sure, there are dark moments but no song feels completely this way, except for SDV and maybe the mirror. Instead, I find it has a lot of energetic stuff going on and is a very sing-along album. My new thoughts with a quick ranking (which will most probably change soon anyway):

10. Caught in a web: the intro is still really awkward, the chorus slowly feels more and more natural even though not really impressive, but the angry bits are really great now, the singing really serves them.

9. The Silent Man: the verses are really great and I would have loved the whole song to be that way, the chorus should still have appeared only once in my opinion. But I am no longer absolutely angry after this song; it could have been pulled off better but it sounds nice.

8. 6'00: a great opener, I still think the vocals aren't the best for this one, especially the chorus where the way "melody" is sung feels weird compared to how "window" is sung but it has a great vibe - the energetic stuff I was mentioning earlier. The instrumental bits are really cool.

7. Innocence Faded: man, I really, really wish the chorus was better, because I'm starting to think it could be phenomenal. The atmosphere here is incredible, the best being the pre-chorus, what an amazing arrangement. Also, I now like the instrumental ending.

6. Erotomania: remains their worst instrumental, but no longer a bad one per any means. I could definitely do without the ACOS-driven sections but the rest is really inspired and the way other themes are re-used works well. I still have not memorized it perfectly and could not tell what my favorite section is.

5. Lifting shadows off a dream: a kind of Innocence Faded that turned out great, it's not their best ballad but it's definitely beautiful and has great lyrics.

4. The Mirror/Lie: I have to count them as one song, because I REALLY cannot listen to The Mirror on its own. It just stops. It's not even like those songs where the ending transitions into the next one, here there is like no transition. Anyway, this duo is really great, I have a preference for The Mirror that I now consider to be the beginning and the end of the huge track that it creates, kind of like Lie is a song within the song. And I believe it was not intended to be a song originally but just a part of TM until JLB pointed out it was great enough to be expanded upon - so yeah it's really like a song within the song. So The Mirror parts, beginning and ending, are really, really great, with a kind of Halloween vibe, I could almost picture a vampire roaming inside an eerie mansion late at night... okay the lyrics deal with Portnoy's alcoholism but hey. One of the most unique thing of their discography. Lie, while not as great, does not take away from The Mirror and feels natural in between. This time it is the more angry and energetic stuff brought forward, a bit of a mix between CIAW and 6'00 bests parts. I still don't understand what the lyrics are supposed to be about on this one though, they are a bit weird.

3. Scarred: Hearing it right now. Love the intro, the most unexpected drum intro of their catalogue I think, it feels so smooth, almost jazzy. From their it evolves into several interesting sections, they are not mind-blowing but are great altogether, even though the transitions are kind of unexistant and the riffs kinda bland for DT. The "How come" section is still the greatest and one of the finest moment of the album. The chorus is also really smooth, the instrumental section is great, starting with a bit that reminds me Metropolis Pt.1 I think, and then the solos are really enjoyable. The outro is not as epic as LtL but is a great way to end it on an unexpected note just like the progression has been strange throughout the whole song.

2. Voices: I knew it would grow on me, and now all I can say is I love it. Has all the elements included in Scarred but is more coherent and the guitar solo is just so tasteful... might become number 1 soon, but for now it is still...

1. Space-Dye Vest: the perfect closer, the point where the album finally settles on this really dark mood, I can't help but love it. It is such a personal song for KM I guess, you can hardly judge it, it comes straight from the heart. But the band as a whole is doing a great job on it. I really can't say much about it, you all know the feelings this one evokes, it's really moving stuff. I know it's not a universally loved DT song though, but I guess either we completely love or hate it. I also find that the final lyrics just hit so hard.

I am noticing that Awake is almost a complete opposite from Black Clouds - BC&SL I started a bit underwhelmed because it felt a bit like the most "classic" DT album and then I started liking it more and more because it showcases some of the best aspects of the band. You can tell it was written following a routine that had settled in but still this same routine is kind of what allowed them to write material that would satisfy you if you liked all their different aspects. Awake is completely different because you can tell they are still searching their sound, and thus the songs are flawed, balancing between really creative moments and more awkward ones; but at the same time it gives to those songs a completely unique taste, it is flawed but feels fresh. In the end, what surprises me the most now I guess, is how I&W feels so well-balanced that I thought they had already found their sound from that album, hence why I was not expecting something like Awake to come after. So I guess it is more of a great coincidence that I&W works so well, I swear if I did not know the order of their discography I would believe Awake came before, because to me that would be the logical evolution of their musical identity. Anyway, the opposite way I started liking BC&SL more and more, I am now liking Awake more and more, because it is this flawed record with a unique flavour. Now, I don't even want to begin to think about how hard it will be to rank them when I will finally be familiar will all of their material...
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: The Walrus on May 12, 2018, 02:10:03 PM
I love the spoken word samples in Space-Dye Vest, they complement the beautiful, sorrowful lyrics perfectly. What an incredible song that is.

Love is an act of blood and I'm bleeding a pool in the shape of a heart
Beauty projection in the reflection, always the worst way to start
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: bosk1 on May 16, 2018, 08:32:45 AM
Regarding the AMBI/Yes connection:

Quote from: Mike Portnoy
[from the Awake demos]We had the idea of doing a trilogy that would be broken up into 3 parts: the 1st part being a crazy instrumental, the middle part being a big soaring epic, and the final part being an acoustic piece to close out the trilogy on a somber note. (in the vein of the endings of Yes' Gates of Delirium or Rush's Hemispheres). What a surprise it was to us when later in the year, Yes used the EXACT same trilogy formula for the closing tracks of their new "Talk" album!
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: gzarruk on May 16, 2018, 12:34:17 PM
Regarding the AMBI/Yes connection:

Quote from: Mike Portnoy
[from the Awake demos]We had the idea of doing a trilogy that would be broken up into 3 parts: the 1st part being a crazy instrumental, the middle part being a big soaring epic, and the final part being an acoustic piece to close out the trilogy on a somber note. (in the vein of the endings of Yes' Gates of Delirium or Rush's Hemispheres). What a surprise it was to us when later in the year, Yes used the EXACT same trilogy formula for the closing tracks of their new "Talk" album!

Very interesting! I still don’t like TSM too much, though  :-\
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: pg1067 on May 16, 2018, 04:31:50 PM
Regarding the AMBI/Yes connection:

Quote from: Mike Portnoy
[from the Awake demos]We had the idea of doing a trilogy that would be broken up into 3 parts: the 1st part being a crazy instrumental, the middle part being a big soaring epic, and the final part being an acoustic piece to close out the trilogy on a somber note. (in the vein of the endings of Yes' Gates of Delirium or Rush's Hemispheres). What a surprise it was to us when later in the year, Yes used the EXACT same trilogy formula for the closing tracks of their new "Talk" album!

This is interesting.  Although I hypothesized earlier in the thread that maybe there was an analogy between TSM and the "Soon" section at the end of Gates of Delirium, I also commented that it's a bit of a stretch to compare them.  The "crazy instrumental" part of Gates is in the middle, and it serves to advance the plot of the song, whereas Erotomania never felt to me like "part of" Voices.  Also, "Soon" is more hopeful in tone than it is somber (although I don't really see TSM as being somber either).  I also don't see Hemispheres as a good analogy, although "The Sphere" is more similar to TSM than is "Soon."  But I get that those were the things they had in mind and AMBI is where they ended up from that starting point.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: KevShmev on May 16, 2018, 07:38:05 PM
Talk was released 7 months before Awake.  I am sure DT had the demo of AMBI going before Talk's release, but just wanted to point that out.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: pg1067 on May 17, 2018, 11:38:25 AM
Talk was released 7 months before Awake.  I am sure DT had the demo of AMBI going before Talk's release, but just wanted to point that out.

DT's last I&W show was November 28, 1993.

Talk was released on March 21, 1994.

Recording for Awake started in May 1994.  When the structure of AMBI and any demos first existed is, I think, a matter of complete speculation.
Title: Re: My thoughts on DT so far...
Post by: RKW on July 19, 2018, 08:15:25 AM
Heya everyone, I'm back again! No, this thread was lost not forgotten! ;D

Now my journey with DT has almost ended - I've got all albums except WDADU which I don't intend to buy anyway, though I will probably give it a listen for completion's sake. So I have a lot of things to share, and as always I will go chronologically, so I shall start with the album I listened next, ADTOE.

First thing I have to say about this one, is that I had already listened to OTBOA and BAI, so those songs weren't new for me at the time. I wish I had kept the suprise for BAI though, 'cause it's without a doubt the best one here. With that being said, I think it is a fairly consistent album albeit it's without a doubt a safe one. Maybe too safe sometimes? I have nothing against the song structures themselves similar to the I&W ones, but there are some musical ideas that seem to be taken from their previous material and even though I've come to accept it (and it's not as if it was the first time it happened), it does still bother me a little bit. I'm thinking most of all of Outcry's instrumental section - it is awesome and does fit the song -but almost everything there feels like something they've done before, or at least to me. To be done with the bad sides, I also have to say BMUBMD is complete filler I feel and it's easy to tell it's not natural, once again it's not the first time they do songs were the boundary between inspiration/plagiarism is a bit blurred, but Never Enough is still enjoyable in my opinion, whereas this one fails. Now, the album does shine with its ballads, the 3 of them are incredible and get really moving. Far From Heaven and Beneath the Surface really let JLB shine and I love that he's in some way the one to end the album. Bridges In The Sky is the "completely" new 10-minute epic (apart from a little transition borrowing from ITNOG) and is slowly becoming a favorite of mine - it has the perfect combination between the lyrics and the music, the heavy side of it really conveys the determination of the narrator wanting to find new meaning in his life with the help of the Shaman, the chorus has this huge soaring vibe, with the drumming, the keyboard patch, this is the moment where the narrator "flies", and the use of the lexical field of all elements and especially the focus on the wind just goes perfectly with it. As a result, I think the final title is a better descrpition of the song than the original "Shaman's trance". I realize I have not mentioned LNF yet (joke doesn't count, does it?) and it's a good song even if it's really classic for them, I think I (easily?) prefer it over UAGM (sorry I&W fans...).

Now, the only one left is of course FII, and I don't have that much to say as I agree with the general opinion of the album. HK/LitS and Trial of Tears are amongst the most beautiful things they have done without a doubt. Now, the rest has still several good moments, and in my opinion they still successfully managed to capture the more groovy side this album was intended to have with some songs. New Millenium is a rather strong opener and is definitely enjoyable, I'm kinda surprised it remains such an underrated song even though it has flaws (the pre-chorus with the title drop). BMS is the one I do enjoy even though it can't maintain my focus because the verses get rather boring, but the chorus is goddamn tasty as well the keyboard solo. Not a mindblowing song but no worse than CiaW for instance. JLMB also seems to try something similar but this time fails more, I don't remember it a lot and don't really want to listen to it again. The same goes for Peruvian Skies, it just got me bored. YNM is obvioulsy really bad, but at least it catches my ear because of it. :lol As for the ballads, Hollow Years has great melodies but has a little something missing, thankfully there is the LaB version I watched which does it more justice. TAMP sounded really bad for me at first but I've got to appreciate it, the chorus is simple but effective, the bridge great despite its shortness, the verses still do not fit that much for me but I've come to accept them. Anna Lee does lack a bit of dynamics in my opinion but sounds great - I see it has the big sister of TALW on 8V which is one of their strongest short songs in my opinion. So I won't complain if they also tried this kind of style before even if it didn't work as well. Now, I've also listened to the demos yesterday to have a better idea of what FII should have originally been, and for the better songs it was just as good, for some better than the final result (YOM is as good as the actual BMS for similar reasons I thought), for some the final version is better (Hollow Years, BMS/HK, they do work a hell lot better as seperate tracks). The unreleased tracks were rather good but not mindblowing and it doesn't really bother me they did not end up on the disc.

I won't add anything for now but I hope I will rather soon either start an album or song ranking, or at least write some final thoughts on my journey as a whole (I won't promise though as you see I always end up being away a little time ~).

Anyway, now with all the news for the upcoming album I am getting all excited for this release! :angel: