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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: The Silent Cody on August 04, 2017, 03:31:20 AM
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https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/john_petrucci_im_working_on_integrating_8-string_guitars_into_new_dream_theater_music.html
Well that's definitly something new, I would like to hear some very lows from JP ;) maybe not djent, but 8 string guitar gives many possibilities, not only very low tuning ;)
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I think Ultimate Guitar just yanked this from another interview, can't remember which one, maybe the one with the Captain. But I remember JP saying this word for word previously.
Anyways, I like how the 7 string inspired him on Awake, so I'm hoping they get him an 8 string before/during the writing for the next album, different flavors are always nice. That said, I don't see him going straight djent because he has eight strings, I see him utilizing it in a manner similar to the 7, and still maintaining his style, just with an extended range. Meaning he'll probably use it for some heavy stuff but also a lot of clean arpeggiated chord stuff as well.
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Yeah, that was posted before and has been discussed.
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I think Ultimate Guitar just yanked this from another interview, can't remember which one, maybe the one with the Captain. But I remember JP saying this word for word previously.
Anyways, I like how the 7 string inspired him on Awake, so I'm hoping they get him an 8 string before/during the writing for the next album, different flavors are always nice. That said, I don't see him going straight djent because he has eight strings, I see him utilizing it in a manner similar to the 7, and still maintaining his style, just with an extended range. Meaning he'll probably use it for some heavy stuff but also a lot of clean arpeggiated chord stuff as well.
Yeah, what mikeyd23 said.
I don't see 8 string guitar = djent, as some people do. A good example is Haken, both of their guitarists use 8 string guitars and their music is not the djent cliche sound that lots of people complain about.
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Yeah, that was posted before and has been discussed.
Yeah, sorry bout doubling the topic. I found discussion aboit it in DT14 album thread.
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might as well just get that music-man baritone scale bass guitar.
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It'd be interesting to see what he comes up with. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few djent riffs but I imagine it will be more for extended range in general. As said above 8 strings doesn't automatically mean djent.
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To be honest, I would love to hear some heavy riffs in Awake style. I miss that metal side of DT after The Astonishing.
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I think Ultimate Guitar just yanked this from another interview, can't remember which one, maybe the one with the Captain. But I remember JP saying this word for word previously.
Anyways, I like how the 7 string inspired him on Awake, so I'm hoping they get him an 8 string before/during the writing for the next album, different flavors are always nice. That said, I don't see him going straight djent because he has eight strings, I see him utilizing it in a manner similar to the 7, and still maintaining his style, just with an extended range. Meaning he'll probably use it for some heavy stuff but also a lot of clean arpeggiated chord stuff as well.
Yeah, what mikeyd23 said.
I don't see 8 string guitar = djent, as some people do. A good example is Haken, both of their guitarists use 8 string guitars and their music is not the djent cliche sound that lots of people complain about.
Also, I believe Scale the Summit tastefully explores the 8 string range.
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If there's anyone that can actually "play" an 8-string with definition and such and not just chunk on the low end like you're stuck in the mud it's JP.
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I think Ultimate Guitar just yanked this from another interview, can't remember which one, maybe the one with the Captain. But I remember JP saying this word for word previously.
Anyways, I like how the 7 string inspired him on Awake, so I'm hoping they get him an 8 string before/during the writing for the next album, different flavors are always nice. That said, I don't see him going straight djent because he has eight strings, I see him utilizing it in a manner similar to the 7, and still maintaining his style, just with an extended range. Meaning he'll probably use it for some heavy stuff but also a lot of clean arpeggiated chord stuff as well.
Yeah, what mikeyd23 said.
I don't see 8 string guitar = djent, as some people do. A good example is Haken, both of their guitarists use 8 string guitars and their music is not the djent cliche sound that lots of people complain about.
Also, I believe Scale the Summit tastefully explores the 8 string range.
Actually, they haven't. Chris Letchford said he got his first 8 string not so long ago, and couldn't complete a song with it for the latest album, so he hasn't used it on any STS song yet. But, still, I agree that STS is a good example of using extended range guitars and not goong full djent.
If there's anyone that can actually "play" an 8-string with definition and such and not just chunk on the low end like you're stuck in the mud it's JP.
I agree, JP would never fall into the "chugga chugga - nothing else" realm, he's a very tasteful player with a big sense of melody.
What I don't really get is why JP stopped using his baritone guitars after BC&SL. He could use them more for down tuned stuff without the need of an 8 string guitar.
might as well just get that music-man baritone scale bass guitar.
I could be wrong, but I think he recorded These Walls with one, before he had a line of signature EBMM baritones.
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I'm quite skeptical. To me guitars tuned that low just don't sound good at all (and this is coming from someone playing a 7 string). A slightly detuned 7 string can work if the guitarist and sound engineer are careful about the sound (Myrath comes to mind, they typically play in A standard AFAIK), but I have yet to hear someone play a low F# or even E that doesn't sound a bit like torture to me. At a certain point low notes should be played on a bass, which is built to sound good at low frequencies.
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I'm still open to the idea, but it would be interesting if the guys went into the studio with a completely loose vision, without being influenced by currently relevant djent bands. It would be more authentic if it were "DT experiments with an 8 string guitar" instead of "DT pulls from djent contemporaries".
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The new Adagio album was mostly done with 8-strings, and while there are a few spots where djenty riffing comes in, it didn't do a ton to pull the band in a different direction from what they were previously.
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I'm quite skeptical. To me guitars tuned that low just don't sound good at all (and this is coming from someone playing a 7 string). A slightly detuned 7 string can work if the guitarist and sound engineer are careful about the sound (Myrath comes to mind, they typically play in A standard AFAIK), but I have yet to hear someone play a low F# or even E that doesn't sound a bit like torture to me. At a certain point low notes should be played on a bass, which is built to sound good at low frequencies.
I agree. It's just so hard to get any definition the lower you go.
JP tuned his 7 down to A for "Illumination Theory" and it's tough to pick out different notes sometimes. Whenever I see these 8/9-string people playing, yeah, it sure looks like they're going crazy with low-end cuz their fingers are flapping all over, but it all sounds like the same note.
Like I said, if anyone can pull it off it'll be JP.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGyS55UQMUE
Lots of different ways to play an 8 string.
Though I'm pretty JP is set in his and isn't going to be exploring new playing styles.
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What I don't really get is why JP stopped using his baritone guitars after BC&SL.
He didn't stop. Unless I'm mistaken, he used a baritone on BMU/BMD. It's just that he has never used it for that many songs.
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Meh. I want to hear the music first. 8 string or 2 string, doesn't mean anything to me (even as a musician). Maybe it will motivate Petrucci to start trying a few different things, who knows?
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I don't think he did. I tried learning it a while back, and I think he wrote it on a normally-tuned 7-string. He plays it live on a 7-string as well:(https://snag.gy/omNkJQ.jpg)
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That song is fucking great. :metal
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That song is fucking great. :metal
Yup, it is!
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What I don't really get is why JP stopped using his baritone guitars after BC&SL.
He didn't stop. Unless I'm mistaken, he used a baritone on BMU/BMD. It's just that he has never used it for that many songs.
it hasn't been used since BC&SL, but even then I'm not sure if he has used it on more than 4-5 songs.
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What I don't really get is why JP stopped using his baritone guitars after BC&SL.
He didn't stop. Unless I'm mistaken, he used a baritone on BMU/BMD. It's just that he has never used it for that many songs.
it hasn't been used since BC&SL, but even then I'm not sure if he has used it on more than 4-5 songs.
You're right, just counted the songs where I know he used the baritone and there's only 4: These Walls, Panic Attack, ANTR and Wither (and I'm not entirely sure about this one).
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What I don't really get is why JP stopped using his baritone guitars after BC&SL.
He didn't stop. Unless I'm mistaken, he used a baritone on BMU/BMD. It's just that he has never used it for that many songs.
it hasn't been used since BC&SL, but even then I'm not sure if he has used it on more than 4-5 songs.
You're right, just counted the songs where I know he used the baritone and there's only 4: These Walls, Panic Attack, ANTR and Wither (and I'm not entirely sure about this one).
I'm pretty sure that A Nightmare to Remember is a regular six string in C. The other song he uses a baritone on is Blind Faith.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGyS55UQMUE
Lots of different ways to play an 8 string.
Though I'm pretty JP is set in his and isn't going to be exploring new playing styles.
I would also say, 90% of the stuff he played there should, if at all, be played by JM. I mean, that's exactly the stuff he *used* to play.
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What I don't really get is why JP stopped using his baritone guitars after BC&SL.
He didn't stop. Unless I'm mistaken, he used a baritone on BMU/BMD. It's just that he has never used it for that many songs.
it hasn't been used since BC&SL, but even then I'm not sure if he has used it on more than 4-5 songs.
You're right, just counted the songs where I know he used the baritone and there's only 4: These Walls, Panic Attack, ANTR and Wither (and I'm not entirely sure about this one).
I'm pretty sure that A Nightmare to Remember is a regular six string in C. The other song he uses a baritone on is Blind Faith.
This is correct.
Would be cool to have a thread (in the musicians forum maybe) that details the tunings of every DT song for quick reference. I could make one if there was a demand for it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGyS55UQMUE
Lots of different ways to play an 8 string.
Though I'm pretty JP is set in his and isn't going to be exploring new playing styles.
I would also say, 90% of the stuff he played there should, if at all, be played by JM. I mean, that's exactly the stuff he *used* to play.
Near perfect timing! As just today Rob Scallon released this back and forth with Davie504 (bass player). Both don't really take themselves seriously in their videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-BG_t1RtFI
I agree Rumborak, and more of the same really in this new video. When you have a guitar and bass, part of the point is to cover ground the other cannot. Add in drums, and standard tuned rock bass already competes sonically with the bass drum. 8 strings, and to a degree 7 originally, work well as a solo thing due to the range. But place that in a band, and things get stepped on and duplicated more. So really in rock music the point is range. We can talk all about how it makes X octave scales easier, 7 or 8 string sweeps, or 7 or 8 string chords. Yet scales and sweeps are a fraction of most of rock songs. And place simultaneously sounded 8 strings chords in distortion = :\. I fully accept seven strings and five strings in any rock music (own one of each). But lets not act like JP is going to re-invent the wheel here, because he didn't with 7 strings. And he won't with 8, as the 7's have been to expand his range.
Animals as Leaders works well as there are just the three of them, and they purposely forgo bass but cover that range sometimes. But they are an exception IMO.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGyS55UQMUE
Lots of different ways to play an 8 string.
Though I'm pretty JP is set in his and isn't going to be exploring new playing styles.
I would also say, 90% of the stuff he played there should, if at all, be played by JM. I mean, that's exactly the stuff he *used* to play.
But imagine the options of JP is handling some of those lows, it gives JM more freedom to explore the rest of the bass and not just stick to adding in the low notes.
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But imagine the options of JP is handling some of those lows, it gives JM more freedom to explore the rest of the bass and not just stick to adding in the low notes.
This is exactly what I'd love to see... ermmm Hear.
Or even JM playing stick along with JP's 8.
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What has been the overall trend of JM's bass playing though, especially post SFAM? There are token bass parts/breaks, especially with DT12, and better bass mixes recently (ADTOE & DT12). I don't think we can say JM has strayed far away from guitar doubling with any regularity, for better or for worse, for awhile. However, DT12 was a step in the right direction.
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What I don't really get is why JP stopped using his baritone guitars after BC&SL.
He didn't stop. Unless I'm mistaken, he used a baritone on BMU/BMD. It's just that he has never used it for that many songs.
it hasn't been used since BC&SL, but even then I'm not sure if he has used it on more than 4-5 songs.
You're right, just counted the songs where I know he used the baritone and there's only 4: These Walls, Panic Attack, ANTR and Wither (and I'm not entirely sure about this one).
I'm pretty sure that A Nightmare to Remember is a regular six string in C. The other song he uses a baritone on is Blind Faith.
This is correct.
Would be cool to have a thread (in the musicians forum maybe) that details the tunings of every DT song for quick reference. I could make one if there was a demand for it.
Do it! :hefdaddy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGyS55UQMUE
Lots of different ways to play an 8 string.
Though I'm pretty JP is set in his and isn't going to be exploring new playing styles.
I would also say, 90% of the stuff he played there should, if at all, be played by JM. I mean, that's exactly the stuff he *used* to play.
But imagine the options of JP is handling some of those lows, it gives JM more freedom to explore the rest of the bass and not just stick to adding in the low notes.
Exactly what I would love to hear!
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About a thread with tunings for DT songs, this a very good idea ;)
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If the songs are good, I could care less about the number of strings on his guitar. He shouldn't either. It seems like such a pandering comment to make. "I want to use [insert wankery term here] on the next album." Please just write a kickass album. Otherwise, I wish his guitar had no strings. It'd be just as good.
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I'll put something together tomorrow.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dky0ekeuuKA
Saw this earlier looking for 8-string guitar videos :lol
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^ Hilarious!! :rollin
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dky0ekeuuKA
Saw this earlier looking for 8-string guitar videos :lol
Hahaha, 666 gauge or something ;) Anyway, I totally agree with this
If the songs are good, I could care less about the number of strings on his guitar. He shouldn't either. It seems like such a pandering comment to make. "I want to use [insert wankery term here] on the next album." Please just write a kickass album. Otherwise, I wish his guitar had no strings. It'd be just as good.
Totally agree, no better words to say that.
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It will be interesting what he can do with an 8 string guitar. Perhaps some more heavy stuff coming.
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If the songs are good, I could care less about the number of strings on his guitar. He shouldn't either. It seems like such a pandering comment to make. "I want to use [insert wankery term here] on the next album." Please just write a kickass album. Otherwise, I wish his guitar had no strings. It'd be just as good.
I agree with this and always cringe whenever people are like "JM should use the stick more/again". Why? Just for the sake of using it? If you watch any videos of him playing it he mostly plays it just like a bass anyway so there's no point other than the "gadget factor".
I was always worried about JR and his gadgets cuz it would turn into "I wonder what crazy gadget JR will use on the next album", which is kind of what it ended up being anyway, which takes away from the music itself since people will be looking for the gadget as opposed to listening to the music.
Just leave the gadgets to bands like Muse.
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i'll take anything that would make DT's music sound different than the norm
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i'll take anything that would make DT's music sound different than the norm
Who knows maybe he will use a ukelele in the next album for that Kum Ba ya! moment!
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I'm hoping for a new DT heaviest moment!
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I just want the album to be released in mid 2018, and not early 2019. It's such a long wait :'(
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About a thread with tunings for DT songs, this a very good idea ;)
No need for that thread. All DT guitar tunings by song.
https://www3.sympatico.ca/phlip/DreamTheaterGuitarTunings.html
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If the songs are good, I could care less about the number of strings on his guitar. He shouldn't either. It seems like such a pandering comment to make. "I want to use [insert wankery term here] on the next album." Please just write a kickass album. Otherwise, I wish his guitar had no strings. It'd be just as good.
This!
My feeling is that the goal of any band should be to write great music. I want to hear riffs so good that they help my jog last 30 minutes longer. I want to hear vocals so good that they make me contemplate a career as a karaoke singer. Writing music that is different and unexpected is a useful trick for reaching that goal, but it should not be the goal, if that makes sense. Having specific expectations for any album seems like a recipe for disappointment, at least to me.
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I just want the album to be released in mid 2018, and not early 2019. It's such a long wait :'(
If during this period off tour each member of DT has got the opportunity to write some material maybe we could expect DT14 to come out in September/October 2018. So in summer they can elaborate all the ideas they came up with.. But yes, it IS gonna be a long wait. :'(
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If the songs are good, I could care less about the number of strings on his guitar. He shouldn't either. It seems like such a pandering comment to make. "I want to use [insert wankery term here] on the next album." Please just write a kickass album. Otherwise, I wish his guitar had no strings. It'd be just as good.
This!
My feeling is that the goal of any band should be to write great music. I want to hear riffs so good that they help my jog last 30 minutes longer. I want to hear vocals so good that they make me contemplate a career as a karaoke singer. Writing music that is different and unexpected is a useful trick for reaching that goal, but it should not be the goal, if that makes sense. Having specific expectations for any album seems like a recipe for disappointment, at least to me.
Well, I tend to agree. But I also have to say that it's not like JP put himself out there as promoting the album or trying to generate interest by putting out a press release about his new 8-string or something like that. He's using one, and Ultimate Guitar apparently asked him about it and put the information out there. So, again, it's not like he is trying to create a certain expectation or as if the goal is anything but writing great music.
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I just want the album to be released in mid 2018, and not early 2019. It's such a long wait :'(
If during this period off tour each member of DT has got the opportunity to write some material maybe we could expect DT14 to come out in September/October 2018. So in summer they can elaborate all the ideas they came up with.. But yes, it IS gonna be a long wait. :'(
But that's not how DT works at all, they like to write in the studio, that's why they take that much time in the studio :-[
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I just want the album to be released in mid 2018, and not early 2019. It's such a long wait :'(
If during this period off tour each member of DT has got the opportunity to write some material maybe we could expect DT14 to come out in September/October 2018. So in summer they can elaborate all the ideas they came up with.. But yes, it IS gonna be a long wait. :'(
But that's not how DT works at all, they like to write in the studio, that's why they take that much time in the studio :-[
Yeah you're right about that. But I wonder if they already have some ideas. I saw recently a video of Jordan playing a short solo on twitter.. But yeah, until we receive updates it's hard to speculate when it will actually come out. Even LaBrie wasn't sure if DT14 will come out in fall 2018.
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I just want the album to be released in mid 2018, and not early 2019. It's such a long wait :'(
If during this period off tour each member of DT has got the opportunity to write some material maybe we could expect DT14 to come out in September/October 2018. So in summer they can elaborate all the ideas they came up with.. But yes, it IS gonna be a long wait. :'(
But that's not how DT works at all, they like to write in the studio, that's why they take that much time in the studio :-[
Yeah you're right about that. But I wonder if they already have some ideas. I saw recently a video of Jordan playing a short solo on twitter.. But yeah, until we receive updates it's hard to speculate when it will actually come out. Even LaBrie wasn't sure if DT14 will come out in fall 2018.
All I know is MM has been writing material for both his solo album and the new DT album, we just don't know how much of that will actually end up being used.
Jordan is currently recording a new prog solo album (he's posted a few snippets of it on facebook), so I don't think he's had time to write new DT music.
Myung might have been writing, but he's always so silent that I doubt even his family knows what he does on his free time :biggrin:
James doesn't (directly) take part on the writing of the music, so I doubt he's been working on something DT-related. Also, he's confirmed he has a new solo album in the works, so he should be focused on that for the first few months of 2018.
And then there's JP, who I think is safe to assume has been writing something, but he seems to be so fixed on the "most of the material should come from the jams at the studio" mentality, that we just don't know what to expect. I just hope that, meanwhile, he finally gets to work on his 2nd solo album, which seems to be slated for release "sometime after Tool releases their next album" :lol
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I finally watched that Captain interview with Petrucci. I think it's very interesting that Petrucci hadn't even played an 8-string at least up until that interview but he had already decided that he woulod play an 8-string on the next album.
Awake didn't sound like any of the 7-string stuff going on in the '90s. Then again there wasn't a hole lot of 7-string music back then. Nevertheless I have hope that the next DT album won't sound too much like any of the modern bands that do the 8-string chug thing.
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I finally watched that Captain interview with Petrucci. I think it's very interesting that Petrucci hadn't even played an 8-string at least up until that interview but he had already decided that he woulod play an 8-string on the next album.
I'm sure he's at least messed around with one. There doesn't need to be any official footage or audio of him playing one for it to be "real". Haven't all of us slingers at least picked one up in Ye Olde Luthier Shop? I doubt he'd just say something like that out of the blue.
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I think anything below about A1 sounds fucking gross distorted.
Please no 8-string unless it's multi-scale with a high A.