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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: darkshade on April 08, 2017, 10:15:25 AM
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Hey everyone. I know this is a prog metal site, but I know there's plenty of Jazz fans here. I love Pat Metheny and his music, especially around this time of year, Spring and Summer are just perfect. I never start these kind of threads, but I would enjoy one for this great artist. How familiar is everyone with Pat Metheny and the Pat Metheny Group? He has quite a few albums under his belt, and I feel like his music goes beyond "jazz", his stuff is closer to prog rock than most other jazz musicians, as much of his work has forward-motion during a piece of music (not just players taking solo after solo.) He and his bands bring different influences from all around the world, while perhaps rooted in jazz and rock. His music is deep, and cleanses the soul. He has so much varied music to offer, from jazz-fusion, to rock, to world-jazz, to progressive rock, to post-bop, to avant-garde.
He has about 50 albums, this includes albums as a leader, solo albums, PM Group albums, PM Unity albums, trio albums, and any other album which his name is shared equally with other musicians on the same album. Of course, if we include every album Pat has been on as a sideman, collaborator, or guest, there's another 60 albums or something like that, so I think it would be best to keep it to Pat's main canon.
So any interest in following along a Pat Metheny discography thread? Maybe you only know a few albums, but this would be a great place to learn more about Pat's music. Most of his stuff is online, Spotify, etc... if you don't have certain albums.
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Count me in! I've been meaning to get into his music for a very long time, this would be a good opportunity.
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totally.
his best stuff is some of my favorite Jazz-Rock.
First Circle, Speaking of Now, Imaginary Day, Offramp among others.
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^ Yes, a lot of his best (and most popular) work is with the Pat Metheny Group. They had quite a few hits on the radio. I hope there is a new PMG album some time soon, The Way Up was the last album, and that album's a masterpiece.
His new band The Pat Metheny 'Unity' Group is up there, KIN () is a great album; but I miss Lyle Mays' contribution to the music. All those Group albums are great, though, and I feel his recent output has been very strong, as the music really grows on you. Pat's also on an album by Logan Richardson, called "Shift" released in 2016, and it's really cool. I'm still digesting it but it has some 70s fusion influences which is cool to hear with Pat's playing in the modern era.
My personal favorite era is the 82-93 period, where the albums leaned heavily on World Music, Latin Jazz and Brazilian music mixed with prog-jazz fusion, and psychedelia. The music contains lots of great, catchy melodies, on top of very colorful rhythms; plus, Pat honed in on, and perfected, his classic signature sound and tone during this time.
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Considering that Pat is one my all-time favorite musicians (and that "Imaginary Day" ranks as one of the best records ever made in my book), I'd more than willing to follow a PM discography thread.
Don't count on a new PMG album anytime soon though. As far as I know, Lyle Mays doesn't enjoy touring any more and Pat has been on record as saying that he sees no purpose in recording a new PMG album if he can't do a tour with Lyle to support it.
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Alright, we'll begin tomorrow.
But first, some background on Pat for those interested.
Pat Metheny was born and raised in Lee's Summit, Missouri, a suburb southeast of Kansas City. At age 15, he won a Down Beat scholarship to a one-week jazz camp and was mentored by guitarist Attila Zoller. Zoller invited the young Metheny to New York City to see guitarist Jim Hall and bassist Ron Carter. Following his graduation from Lee's Summit High School, Metheny briefly attended the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Florida in 1972, where he was offered a teaching position. He then moved to Boston to take a teaching assistantship at the Berklee College of Music with jazz vibraphonist Gary Burton. He established a reputation as a prodigy when he was with Burton.
In 1974 he made his recording debut on an album unofficially titled "Jaco" with pianist Paul Bley, drummer Bruce Ditmas, and bassist Jaco Pastorius, (whom the album was named after, which was also his official recording debut) for Carol Goss's Improvising Artists label.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/75/Jaco_album.jpg)
Metheny entered the wider jazz scene in 1975 when he joined Gary Burton's band, playing with guitarist Mick Goodrick. Metheny and Goodrick were interviewed together by Guitar Player magazine in 1975, bringing them to the attention of guitar aficionados around the world. Pat is featured on Burton's albums Ring (1974), Dreams So Real (1975), and Passengers (1976) under the ECM label.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51qiW%2BYBWEL.jpg)(https://ecmreviews.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/dreams-so-real2.jpg?w=764)
(https://ecmreviews.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/passengers1.jpg)
Pat's albums would be released by ECM until the mid-1980s. Pat would reunite with Gary Burton on later releases.
These are an interesting look into early Pat Metheny's playing. All good albums in their own right, the focus is more on the other musicians, but Pat's great debut album was not far off during this period. His chops are there, and you can hear Pat searching for his sound.
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Here we go.
Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life (1976)
(https://www.progarchives.com/progressive_rock_discography_covers/2445/cover_501113922010.jpg)
Side I
1. "Bright Size Life" 4:45
2. "Sirabhorn" 5:29
3. "Unity Village" 3:40
4. "Missouri Uncompromised" 4:21
Side II
5. "Midwestern Nights Dream" 6:00
6. "Unquity Road" 3:35
7. "Omaha Celebration" 4:18
8. "Round Trip/Broadway Blues" (Ornette Coleman) 4:58
Pat Metheny – 6-string guitar, electric 12-string guitar
Jaco Pastorius – fretless bass
Bob Moses – drums
Recorded in 1975, and released in 1976 while still in Gary Burton's band, Pat Metheny's official debut album, Bright Size Life, is one of the most refreshing albums in Jazz. At the time, fusion was becoming stale and what's labeled as smooth jazz was beginning to take over, or artist were moving away from fusion and moving back to their jazz roots in post-bop, etc... Meanwhile, 3rd wave fusion artists were emerging, such as Pat Metheny, Brand X, and the famous Jaco Pastorius, who is the bassist on this album. He returns here after a stint with Pat on the "JACO" album. The music on this album feels alive, like the instruments are talking to each other. There are soaring melodies, and a few Metheny classics like the title track and "Midwestern Nights Dream" (also called B&G on some releases) which would remain live staples for years to come. Pat's guitar work is the feature here, and his bright tone set him apart from contemporary 1970s jazz-fusion guitarists. His musical influences and mid-western vibe are on full display here. Jaco's masterful bass work compliments the music so well, he almost steals the show. This would be the last official recording with Pat and Jaco, as they would both venture off towards their own career paths; Jaco with Weather Report, and Pat eventually forming the Pat Metheny Group.
Technically, I was wrong about Pat and Jaco being together again on an album.
They both appear on Joni Mitchell's album "Shadow and Light" a few years later in 1979.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/Joni_Shadows.jpg)
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great album. Haven't listened to it in quite some time. Gonna have to rectify that in the coming days.
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Shows how much I listen to Pat Metheny, I had no idea he did an album with Jaco. Love his work with Weather Report and his self titled debut album.
I liked this a lot. Thanks for the historic context, Darkshade. I can imagine something like this being refreshing in 76. It's a stripped down sound but it also doesn't ignore the last 6 years or so of Jazz.
The interaction between Jaco and Pat is a joy to listen to. I was curious about the combination going into this as Jaco has a flashy style that almost fills the role of a guitar player at times, so I was interested in how he would handle playing with an actual guitarist. Turns out it works great because not only can he take a backseat and let Pat do his thing, but Pat also gave him a ton of room to play that lead role. A lot of restraint on this recording that many guitarists lack.
Another interesting thing I noticed is the amount of overdubbing in both the guitar and bass. You'd have the main guitar/bass track and then a solo overdubbed. This didn't happen all the time, but enough times for me to raise an eyebrow.
I'm kinda curious why they decided to do that. I actually thought it was unnecessary and the only (albeit small) flaw on the album for me.
Very unusual for a genre that emphasizes improv as communication between the players.
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I've always liked Bright Size Life, but for some reason, have not spent as much time with it as many of his others.
And I'm certainly a fan of Jaco.
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I've known of Pat Metheny for a long time, but never really knew much about him. He was my late sister-in-law's favorite artist, however, and I had a lot of respect for her taste in music.
I have a bunch of albums from back when I went on a mad downloading spree, but still don't know much. I usually load up Winamp with a dozen or so albums and let it play. So anyway, I'm here to read and learn, and probably won't contribute much commentary, but you never know.
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Listened to Bright Size Life for the first time in a long time. Invigorating. Metheny is, of course, a genius, and the fact that Jaco plays with him is a bonus.
Great thread idea.
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Great responses everyone. As for overdubbing, I don't know the details of that for this album, but I only noticed the main melodies overdubbed by Jaco in Midwestern Nights Dream. The record company ECM didn't want artists to do that, and just record the music live, and not go back in the studio after, which Pat did not prefer, because you couldn't "clean up" the music (which is why there is such a sonic jump in sound after Pat left ECM in the mid 80s and could produce, edit, overdub, and do whatever he wanted in the studio.) Not sure if they still have that philosophy today.
From an article (or blog?) I found online on making the Pat Metheny Group album "American Garage" (which is only a few albums away)
"When a take was finished everyone gathered in the control room and discussed things. If someone made a mistake I explained we could simply ‘drop in’ to the track to repair it rather than lose a great group performance. The purist jazz attitude of ECM’s Manfred Eicher had never allowed Pat to do anything of this nature."
https://richardniles.com/working-on-american-garage-pat-metheny-group-1979/ (https://richardniles.com/working-on-american-garage-pat-metheny-group-1979/)
Pat's next album "Watercolors" is coming soon...
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I'm kinda divided on that. With live recordings, I always prefer that it be completely unaltered. I don't mind if there's a bad note or two in an otherwise great performance. I understand, however, that some people prefer the illusion of a "perfect" live performance of the song.
In the studio, it's usually whatever they can come up with. The studio version is the ideal, the one they can work with until it really is perfect. But with jazz, the rules are different somehow. There are definitely jazz artists who would prefer to capture a great "live in the studio" performance and wouldn't change anything about it, just as with a live performance in a club or whatever. Metheny's approach to studio work seems more similar to that of rock or other genres; work with it until it's exactly what you want to present to the listener. I can see both sides.
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Never checked out Pat Metheny but I will give a listen and follow this thread.
This is slightly off topic but what song is he playing here at the 1:00 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvaVQZP6A_M
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I'm kinda divided on that. With live recordings, I always prefer that it be completely unaltered. I don't mind if there's a bad note or two in an otherwise great performance. I understand, however, that some people prefer the illusion of a "perfect" live performance of the song.
In the studio, it's usually whatever they can come up with. The studio version is the ideal, the one they can work with until it really is perfect. But with jazz, the rules are different somehow. There are definitely jazz artists who would prefer to capture a great "live in the studio" performance and wouldn't change anything about it, just as with a live performance in a club or whatever. Metheny's approach to studio work seems more similar to that of rock or other genres; work with it until it's exactly what you want to present to the listener. I can see both sides.
I'm by no means a Jazz purist, but I think live in studio approach works best when recording improvised music. Then again, Frank Zappa did studio work to everything and often got good results.
I guess it seemed odd for the more stripped down sound of Bright Size Life. Not only do you miss out on interaction between the players, but I find some of these tunes to be too busy when there are overdubs. But maybe this approach will have better results on future albums. After all, this is pretty early in his career.
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I'm kinda divided on that. With live recordings, I always prefer that it be completely unaltered. I don't mind if there's a bad note or two in an otherwise great performance. I understand, however, that some people prefer the illusion of a "perfect" live performance of the song.
In the studio, it's usually whatever they can come up with. The studio version is the ideal, the one they can work with until it really is perfect. But with jazz, the rules are different somehow. There are definitely jazz artists who would prefer to capture a great "live in the studio" performance and wouldn't change anything about it, just as with a live performance in a club or whatever. Metheny's approach to studio work seems more similar to that of rock or other genres; work with it until it's exactly what you want to present to the listener. I can see both sides.
I'm by no means a Jazz purist, but I think live in studio approach works best when recording improvised music. Then again, Frank Zappa did studio work to everything and often got good results.
I guess it seemed odd for the more stripped down sound of Bright Size Life. Not only do you miss out on interaction between the players, but I find some of these tunes to be too busy when there are overdubs. But maybe this approach will have better results on future albums. After all, this is pretty early in his career.
From what I can tell, the overdubs are just added parts to the song, such as in Midwestern Nights Dream, not overdubbing mistakes and flubs.
However, as I said earlier, Pat Metheny has always been half-prog rock artist, half-jazz/fusion artist. There's a lot of written music on Pat's solo albums and on Pat Metheny Group albums, with plenty of room, of course, for improv. So being able to use a studio like rock musicians do, and get those perfect takes was something Metheny desired.
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Pat Metheny - Watercolors (1977)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Pat_Metheny_-_Watercolours.jpg)
Side I
1. "Watercolors" 6:28
2. "Icefire" 6:07
3. "Oasis" 4:02
4. "Lakes" 4:43
Side II
1. "River Quay" 4:56
2. "Suite: I. Florida Greeting Song" 2:30
3. "Suite: II. Legend of the Fountain" 2:28
4. "Sea Song" 10:18
Pat Metheny – guitar, 12-string guitar, 15-string harp guitar
Lyle Mays – piano
Eberhard Weber – bass
Danny Gottlieb – drums
Pat Metheny's second solo album and follow up to Bright Size Life. Pat's style here is similar to the previous album, maybe more mellow, and definitely brings images of water and related images (thus the album title I guess) in both the music and the song titles. This album is like a predecessor to the Pat Metheny Group, as this is the first album Lyle Mays appears on a Metheny album, and original PM Group drummer Danny Gottlieb appears here for the first time as well. Joining this group is fellow band mate from Gary Burton's band, Eberhard Weber, and while he's not Jaco Pastorius, he is a master bassist himself, and provides some great melodic lines on top of holding the framework of the music together. But of course, it's all about Pat here. His guitar is very clean, and bright, as was his sound in the late 70s. Lyle Mays also plays some beautiful passages on the album. This isn't my favorite Metheny album, both for being in the shadow of Bright Size Life, Pat would also go on to create greater music, and being that it's a little more mellow than BSL, I find this album is a good early morning album with some coffee, as opposed to a loud, driving down the highway music kind of an album. Worth checking out if you like Pat, Lyle, or jazz in general, but not an essential album.
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What I like about Pat's music is that is feels "bright" and generally uplifting, happy, whatever positive adjectives you might come up with, but it's not the homogenized "smooth jazz" that just takes it too far and becomes hyper-produced nice-sounding background music. This is real jazz, but without the heavy, and without the obvious blues influence. I'm listening to Bright Size Life right now (Watercolors is next) and I can totally see putting this on in the morning and sipping coffee.
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Never checked out Pat Metheny but I will give a listen and follow this thread.
This is slightly off topic but what song is he playing here at the 1:00 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvaVQZP6A_M
The song is Minuano (Six Eight), the opening track on Still Life (Talking).
Pat is one of my absolute favorite musicians, glad to see this thread.
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Thanks DT89
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Pat's works with Lyle Mays are fantastic. I'll be following this thread since it's been a while since I listened to his music
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Yeah, I like his work with Lyle Mays. He's pretty much the same as Pat, but on keys instead. I saw a video one time where Pat referred to Lyle as his "partner", but I wasn't sure if he meant that as a partner in musical collaboration, or something else. It didn't matter that much, but I actually thought it would be kinda cool if they were life partners as well as musical partners. The Captain and Tennille of the the jazz world.
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What I like about Pat's music is that is feels "bright" and generally uplifting, happy, whatever positive adjectives you might come up with, but it's not the homogenized "smooth jazz" that just takes it too far and becomes hyper-produced nice-sounding background music. This is real jazz, but without the heavy, and without the obvious blues influence. I'm listening to Bright Size Life right now (Watercolors is next) and I can totally see putting this on in the morning and sipping coffee.
I agree. There's enough jazz, as you described, out there. Of course, Pat has done lots of stuff that is more post-bop, "contemporary", blues, etc... but within his solo albums, and Group albums, the music is more progressive, with a wider choice of chords and feels, especially with a heavy Midwestern background. This is what separates him from 'smooth' jazz artists, but also separates him from classic 70s fusion musicians, and his ability to incorporate so many style and genres into his music over the years, while also developing one of the most recognizable guitar tones in music, is what would separate him and the PM Group from 80s jazz artists.
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I liked this. I thought it was different enough from Bright Size Life to be worth listening to. For one thing, the bass playing is much less flashy. I found Weber to be more of a traditional playing style mixed with a bright Jaco-esque tone. Pretty amazing to hear Jaco's influence already being felt in other players. Then there's the addition of the piano player. The textures in sound and role of the various instruments is a bit more traditional sounding for these reasons. But the music being played isn't trad Jazz, so it's an interesting combo.
I also noticed more pieces that were less improv driven and more based on attempts at creating a mood/texture with the sound. Lots of really nice solo guitar bits.
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Sea Song. Wow!
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I absolutely adore Pat Metheny...
One of my alltime favorite albums is actually (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/SecretStory.jpg)
The first time I heard the opening track "Above The Treetops" I had instant goosebumps.
This album is a marvelous blend of world music and fusion, very inspirational, radiant music, a true work of art.
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The Way Up was the last album, and that album's a masterpiece.
I absolutely agree on that !
Everyone just shines on this album, I especially love Antonio Sánchez' tasty drumming.
This one maybe could appeal more to prog fans since it has these long 20min-long pieces ;)
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I absolutely adore Pat Metheny...
One of my alltime favorite albums is actually (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/SecretStory.jpg)
The first time I heard the opening track "Above The Treetops" I had instant goosebumps.
This album is a marvelous blend of world music and fusion, very inspirational, radiant music, a true work of art.
Secret Story is definitely top 3, sometimes I think it's the best album with his name on it. Some of the most beautiful, inspiring music I've ever heard.
Pretty amazing to hear Jaco's influence already being felt in other players.
Wait until we get to the next album.
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OK, time to move on.
Pat Metheny Group - Pat Metheny Group (1978)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1a/Pmg_-_pmg.jpg)
Side I
1. "San Lorenzo" 10:14
2. "Phase Dance" 8:18
Side II
1. "Jaco" 5:34
2. "Aprilwind" 2:09
3. "April Joy" 8:14
4. "Lone Jack" 6:41
Pat Metheny – 6- and 12-string electric and acoustic guitars
Lyle Mays – piano, Oberheim synthesizer, autoharp
Mark Egan – fretless electric bass
Danny Gottlieb – drums
This is the first Pat Metheny Group album, self titled, and is the same lineup as Watercolors but with bassist Mark Egan joining. This is also considered an actual band, apart from Pat's solo albums or collaborations with other artists, and had consistent members, as well as lineup changes like any other band would have. This album is nothing like Watercolors, as Lyle Mays has more influence on the music, has many writing credits, etc... The music is also closer to jazz-rock of the time, but with lusher harmonies, Pat and Lyle aren't the usual 70s jazz-rock musicians. In fact, there was a purpose of going against the status-quo of jazz-rock/fusion of the time. There is a more reflective mood in the music, there are triumphant moments, more Mid-Western, the music at times feels like driving through the countryside, wind in your face, and fields and farms as far as the eye can see. The music is way more structured than most jazz-rock of the 70s, very much composed while still leaving plenty of room for improvisation.
Pat's tone is similar to Watercolors and Bright Size Life, still brighter, more metallic than he is known for. Lyle introduces synths in this album, very tasteful ones, heard best on the opener, San Lorenzo, one of the Group's most well known tunes, as well as Phase Dance, another signature tune, and was also famously covered by the band Phish (guitarist Trey Anastasio is highly influenced by Pat Metheny.) Most keyboardists were very flashy in the 1970s, but Lyle took a more restrained approach, and I think his playing is very beautiful, both on the Group albums and his solo albums.
I really like the opener, San Lorenzo, great melodies, and wonderful solo by Lyle Mays. Much of Pat Metheny's music (especially the PM Group albums) makes me feel a bit nostalgic at times, and that is one of those tunes that does it. The second tune, Phase Dance, sees Pat really take hold and play a very energetic improvised solo. It's crazy that by 1978 Jaco Pastorius' influence can be felt in the jazz world, and on this album it's very obvious. Original bassist Mark Egan has that "Jaco" sound, though not as flashy as Jaco was, still created some good bass parts. The next tune, titled "Jaco" is an obvious tribute to the aforementioned legend of Jazz bass. It kind of makes sense, this tune has a funky groove, a 'cool' melody, feels laid back, but with a little bit of an aggressive edge, with some fantastic early Pat work. This tune is the closest to classic 70s jazz-rock as the band would get. Mark Egan also does his best "Jaco impression" at one point. Next up is the pair of Aprilwind/April Joy, and it is appropriate because it's still April right now. The first part is a Pat alone, it's more reflective piece, and feels like a leftover from Watercolors. It moves into April Joy, and the rest of the band slowly joins in, lots of Jaco-like bass playing here. It is a brighter tune, Pat brings in some catchy melodies, this is one of those feel-good tunes, makes you feel happy. The last tune is Lone Jack, a jazzier piece, some fast playing. A good way to close the album.
How many jazz-rock groups made albums with great melodies everywhere, and still played some serious jazz-rock without sliding into pop or crossover jazz territory?
All of the Pat Metheny Group albums are essential to any Pat Metheny fan, in my opinion they are all Pat's best albums, a top 20 of his discography would probably include all PM Group albums. This first self titled album is a great debut for the band, and they became very popular quickly after this album was released. Like pop star big, something not seen in Jazz before. Pat Metheny Group and Weather Report had hit singles on the radio in the late 70s through the 1980s, and played big venues live. This is sometimes why those bands were labelled "smooth jazz" because they were more commercial, and the music was more accessible. Funny, I don't think modern audiences would find anything from Pat Metheny Group accessible today.
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**bump**
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Will get to this today or tomorrow.
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I've got some catching up to do, will get to it soon! Really love The Way Up, as well as a couple of other albums, but I'm really interested to see what other stuff he's made.
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Yeah, I'm behind, too. I listened to this over the weekend, but other than finding it all very good, I can't think of much to comment on specifically.
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That was some of the most subtle synthesizer playing I've ever heard. Loved the way a synth note would start out small and slowly crescendo.
So far the appeal of Metheny's music is the textures created between him and his band. The smooth jazz comparison is being thrown around a lot here but I think this is where the distinction starts. Most smooth jazz sounds hollow and artificial to me. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's almost like it's not music meant to be listened to, but something to throw on as a background at parties or on a TV show. You can use Metheny as background music too I suppose, but even when I was listening to this album while browsing the internet there were many moments that grabbed me and caused me to devote all my attention to the music. It doesn't sound complicated the way Frank Zappa or Dream Theater does, but it's very hypnotic.
Lots of versatility in Pat's playing too. He plays with a lot of restraint usually, but it's cool hearing him shred like on Lone Jack.
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That was some of the most subtle synthesizer playing I've ever heard. Loved the way a synth note would start out small and slowly crescendo.
So far the appeal of Metheny's music is the textures created between him and his band. The smooth jazz comparison is being thrown around a lot here but I think this is where the distinction starts. Most smooth jazz sounds hollow and artificial to me. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's almost like it's not music meant to be listened to, but something to throw on as a background at parties or on a TV show. You can use Metheny as background music too I suppose, but even when I was listening to this album while browsing the internet there were many moments that grabbed me and caused me to devote all my attention to the music. It doesn't sound complicated the way Frank Zappa or Dream Theater does, but it's very hypnotic.
Lots of versatility in Pat's playing too. He plays with a lot of restraint usually, but it's cool hearing him shred like on Lone Jack.
It is not smooth jazz. It's more in some of the textures, which have influenced future smooth jazz artists I'm sure, since smooth jazz was still in its infancy when PMG was released in 1978. The band became very successful, thus commercial (smooth) jazz stations played Pat Metheny's music a lot, and still do to this day.
The only Pat Metheny Group album that really walks a fine line between smooth jazz and sophisticated jazz-fusion is 'We Live Here', but even that album is way more than what an untrained ear would perceive as smooth. It contains some of the Group's best work.
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Pat Metheny - New Chautaugua (1979)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6c/New_Chautauqua.jpg/330px-New_Chautauqua.jpg)
Side I
1. "New Chautauqua" 5:19
2. "Country Poem" 2:34
3. "Long-Ago Child/Fallen Star" 10:19
Side II
4. "Hermitage" 5:39
5. "Sueño con Mexico" 5:59
6. "Daybreak" 8:38
Pat Metheny – electric 6- and 12-string guitars, acoustic guitar, 15-string harp guitar, electric bass
Pat Metheny's 1979 solo album New Chautaugua is a true solo album. He is the only musician on the album, playing all guitars and bass. Metheny plays all the instruments: 6- and 12-string acoustic guitars, electric guitar, harp guitar, and a fretless Fender bass which Jaco Pastorius put together for him, and which Mark Egan was to use later on the next Pat Metheny Group album. There are no drums, but they are not missed. However, you don't go into this album expecting prog/fusion, like you don't go into Opeth's Damnation album expecting harsh vocals and extremely heavy riffs (and there are moments on this album that sort of remind me of mellow Opeth songs.)
This is a more laid back, relaxed album, but not dull, and plenty for guitarists to chew on. Lots of acoustics. Pat's playing overall sounds more confident, listen to the opening title track. Pat plays some great melodies and sweet solo, his tone is starting to improve, not to mention his style is growing and gaining more charisma. I would love to hear a version of the title track WITH drums, though, I think it would be awesome. It's a classic Metheny tune. The next two tracks are more mellow, Country Poem has a nice vibe, feels like standing in a field on a warm sunny day. Long-Ago Child/Fallen Star has a Watercolors feel to it, Pat still experimenting with that introspective, "wet" watery sound. This one is ten minutes long, very deep sounding, almost meditative. It almost sounds like going back to prehistoric times, if that makes sense. This is a bit of a darker piece.
Side two opens with Hermitage, bringing back strong Metheny melodies. Speaking of This music is the core of Pat's sound, that Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall inspired sound, with a Midwestern background and jazz-fusion tendencies, all mixed in one, with an ear for catchy melodies. Even Pat's bass playing is inspired by Jaco, or maybe it's because Jaco made the fretless bass that Pat is playing on this album. Next is Sueño Con México, a piece that is very emotional sounding, it kind of tugs on your heartstrings. A lot of Pat's music does this, his music reflects emotions that most men can't, won't, or don't know how to convey, in both music and socially. Some of his music is not something you may want to listen to if you just recently broke up with someone, or lost a job; but on the flip side, a lot of his music is also celebratory, so it can make you feel like everything is right with the universe, if you're in a good mood or if life is going well. The final piece, Daybreak, starts with Pat on clean electric guitar. The mood is light, introspective again, but if you pay attention to what Pat is actually playing, you'll realize he is already a master guitarist at this point. A lot of what he is playing is complex, either in the chord structures, or the fact that he is playing basslines, chords, and lead melodies all at once. Then suddenly, more guitars, and bass, show up, and the mood turns very positive and upbeat, Pat starts playing very bright colorful melodies, leaving the listener on a good note. All is right again in the universe.
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Somehow I keep missing these posts even though I'm subscribed to this topic. Going to try and listen to this tonight.
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Just listened to New Chautauqua and I really enjoyed it. Hernitage is probably my favorite. I know this album came long before Buckethead but the lack of drums reminded me of Electric Tears
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Cool album. Interesting that it's pretty much just guitar. Not sure if I'd ever go back to it but it was an enjoyable listen. I prefer Jazz with multiple musicians. The appeal has always been the interaction between players. Virtuoso by Joe Pass is another classic album that, while I enjoy it, I don't hold it in the same regard as most people because I can only enjoy so much solo guitar.
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Cool album. Interesting that it's pretty much just guitar. Not sure if I'd ever go back to it but it was an enjoyable listen. I prefer Jazz with multiple musicians. The appeal has always been the interaction between players. Virtuoso by Joe Pass is another classic album that, while I enjoy it, I don't hold it in the same regard as most people because I can only enjoy so much solo guitar.
Thankfully Pat only did a few more like this over the years, and I think they were all duos with another musician. Most of Pat's work is trio, quartet, band, group, or large group work.
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Well the duos are cool too. That first album could've just been Pat and Jaco and it would still be awesome.
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OK, time to move on.
Pat Metheny Group - American Garage (1979)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/00/Pmg_-_american_garage.jpg)
Side 1
1. "(Cross the) Heartland" 6:55
2. "Airstream" 6:20
3. "The Search" 4:54
Side 2
4. "American Garage" 4:13
5. "The Epic" 12:59
Pat Metheny – 6- and 12-string electric and acoustic guitars
Lyle Mays – piano, Oberheim synthesizer, autoharp, electric organ
Mark Egan – electric bass
Dan Gottlieb – drums
Released later in 1979 following New Chautaugua, the second Pat Metheny Group album is a little more progressive, lots of Jaco-esque stuff too. Pat lays down some catchy melodies. This could be seen as Bright Size Life 2, but with more piano and keys. This is the first PMG album where we hear some signature sounds coming from Lyle Mays, who also shares equal writing credits with Pat. Lots more synths incorporated than on the self titled or Watercolors. Lyle's piano is of course all over and it is beautiful. Pat's is also really coming together on this album. More confidence, his tone is not as watery, not overly bright like on the earlier albums. The music is a continuation of the first PMG album, lots of jazzy prog rock with a heartfelt touch. Some stuff even reminds me of classic 70s prog ala Camel or Genesis, like in The Search, or The Epic, which has a lot going on and require more than one listen to 'get'.
The opener (Cross The) Heartland has that driving through the mid-west feel, and was actually a big hit on the radio for a while in the late 70s/early 80s. This album is where Pat Metheny's canon starts getting more interesting, so hang in there guys!
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Bump. Is anyone interested anymore?
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Going to get to this today.
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This is where the Pat Metheny discography starts getting real good.
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I'm still reading and following, but I've been insanely busy with a couple of musical projects, plus on the road for five days last week. I don't have time to listen properly (what little time I have has to be spent on songs for the upcoming gig), so I can't comment on the tunes, but I still like getting the background and comments regarding each release.
It's tough running a discography for a lesser-known artist. But be assured, your time and words are not going to waste.
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still following. I guess my experience starts more so with the 80's stuff, so I'll have more to add coming soon.
Paul Wertico has something to do with that.
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The intro is very proggy sounding. Kinda like Mike Oldfield or, as you mentioned, Camel. Definitely a Jaco esque groove when it gets going, but the whole arrangement and melody is very Weather Report in general IMO.
Good album. What makes Metheny unique for me is his midwest Americana sound mixed with coastal Jazz and even European prog influences. It's a unique blend and you hear it all over this album.
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I'm still interested!
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Pat Metheny - 80/81 (1980)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/8081album.jpg)
1. "Two Folk Songs: One / Two" 20:52
2. "Every Day (I Thank You)" 13:21
3. "Goin' Ahead" 3:51
4. "80/81" 7:34
5. "The Bat" 6:05
6. "Turnaround" 7:04
(The vinyl version has a different track order, and has more music, since a CD can only hold 80 minutes and the original version was just over 80 minutes. I have a digital version containing all songs, and in the original order. Missing tracks are "Open" and "Pretty Scattered") Check here for more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80/81 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80/81)
Pat Metheny – acoustic and electric guitars
Charlie Haden – acoustic bass
Jack DeJohnette – drums
Michael Brecker – tenor saxophone
Dewey Redman – tenor saxophone
This album contains an all-star line up of jazz greats, incluing Dewey Redman, father of Joshua Redman. This is an album of post-bop and folk jazz, so don't expect the prog jazz of Pat Metheny Group. This isn't an album I listen to often, but it's a good album. Very summer-y sounding, and there's a lot of different things going on. If you're familiar with any of the musician's work, you have a general idea of what to expect here, but with Metheny covering most writing credits, it's still all about him, and he brings in that Mid-Western feel with Haden and DeJohnette's more avant-garde, post-bop tendencies, and of course Michael Brecker is one of the best jazz saxophonists of all time so there is no shortage of great sax parts here. He and Dewey Redman share sax duties, check out the wiki page for more details about it and the track listing issue I mentioned before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80/81 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80/81) Be aware of The Bat, this tune was revisited by The Pat Metheny Group later on, and a sequel was made (The Bat part II) but we'll get to more of that later.
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This is the only Pat Metheny album I'm familiar with. Bought the record on a whim after reading the lineup on the cover. Pat Metheny, Charlie Haden, Jack Dejohnette, and Mike Brecker on the same album? I had to have it. I was really into Dejohnette and Brecker in particular at the time. Looking forward to revisiting it in context with the rest of his work.
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Going to check it out today at work and I'll report back my thoughts
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Yes, this lineup is as good as it sounds. The music has more acoustic guitar than you think, it gives it that Midwestern feel again. This album sort of has 'rock' moments, in the way some of the rhythms go. Jack DeJohnette lays down crazy accents throughout. Funny that this album is Pat's album, he wrote most of the music, but to me the sax players steal the show, and the rhythm section really shines.
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I like this album but it is a fairly exhausting listen. Luckily there's some variety. The highlight is definitely Two Folk Songs and I also enjoy some of the more traditional jazz/blues stuff on here. I also dig the solo acoustic piece at the end. Agreed that the sax players steal the show. Michael Brecker was a master at going outside what you would expect from traditional sax playing, but doing so in such a way that most people wouldn't even notice. I never made the connection that Dewey Redman is Joshua's father, so that's a cool piece of trivia. Joshua is one of the best players out there today. Highly recommend his collaboration with The Bad Plus.
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bump.
Rest in Peace Lyle Mays, longtime keyboardist for Pat Metheny.
:'( :'( :'(
https://www.patmetheny.com/news/full_display.cfm?id=137
2.10.2020
It is with great sadness that we have to report the passing of our friend and brother, Lyle Mays (1953-2020). He passed today in Los Angeles after a long battle with a recurring illness, surrounded by loved ones.
Pat Metheny: “Lyle was one of the greatest musicians I have ever known. Across more than 30 years, every moment we shared in music was special. From the first notes we played together, we had an immediate bond. His broad intelligence and musical wisdom informed every aspect of who he was in every way. I will miss him with all my heart.”
Steve Rodby: “I had the great privilege of having Lyle in my life for decades, as an inspiration and as my friend. As anyone who knew him and his music will agree, there will only be one Lyle, and we all will continue to appreciate his soulful brilliance, in so many ways.”
His beloved niece, Aubrey Johnson: “Lyle was a brilliant musician and person, and a genius in every sense of the word. He was my dear uncle, mentor, and friend and words cannot express the depth of my grief.”
At this time, there are no details regarding a memorial service. In lieu of flowers, the family asks that contributions be made to the Caltech Fund.
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I saw that. :( I was going to post something here, but didn't know how many people here had even heard of Lyle Mays. I totally forgot about this thread, which Lyle is (was?) a big part of.
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Wow, that is some sad news. My favorite album from Pat is As falls Wichita, so falls Wichita Falls which is as much a Lyle Mays album. 2020 is being relentless :sad:
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FROM THIS PLACE
:tup :tup
love the way the orchestral/chamber instrumentation is arranged. Maybe his best since 2005's "The Way Up"
some great, magical moments on this, even with it's 77+ minute length. Reminds me at times of how I fell in love with Pat Metheny's music many years ago.
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The vinyl is in mail somewhere, on the way to me! Very excited for this album.
I also always loved the contributions by the mighty Lyle Mays, I always felt they made Pat's music complete. I hope that From This Place will be a great album, even without Lyle (I haven't listened to the Unity Band albums that often).
Talking about The Way Up. I think that is Pat's greatest album and truly the peak of The Pat Metheny Group. Still, I would love a new album by the band, although I don't see that happen without Lyle.
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The vinyl is in mail somewhere, on the way to me! Very excited for this album.
I also always loved the contributions by the mighty Lyle Mays, I always felt they made Pat's music complete. I hope that From This Place will be a great album, even without Lyle (I haven't listened to the Unity Band albums that often).
Talking about The Way Up. I think that is Pat's greatest album and truly the peak of The Pat Metheny Group. Still, I would love a new album by the band, although I don't see that happen without Lyle.
Lyle was my favourite member of PMG (says a drummer, oh dear oh dear) , back on topic: I like the new album (great cover photo as well IMHO)
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The vinyl is in mail somewhere, on the way to me! Very excited for this album.
I also always loved the contributions by the mighty Lyle Mays, I always felt they made Pat's music complete. I hope that From This Place will be a great album, even without Lyle (I haven't listened to the Unity Band albums that often).
Talking about The Way Up. I think that is Pat's greatest album and truly the peak of The Pat Metheny Group. Still, I would love a new album by the band, although I don't see that happen without Lyle.
Lyle was my favourite member of PMG (says a drummer, oh dear oh dear) , back on topic: I like the new album (great cover photo as well IMHO)
Please give me a little review while I have to wait :corn
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The vinyl is in mail somewhere, on the way to me! Very excited for this album.
I also always loved the contributions by the mighty Lyle Mays, I always felt they made Pat's music complete. I hope that From This Place will be a great album, even without Lyle (I haven't listened to the Unity Band albums that often).
Talking about The Way Up. I think that is Pat's greatest album and truly the peak of The Pat Metheny Group. Still, I would love a new album by the band, although I don't see that happen without Lyle.
Lyle was my favourite member of PMG (says a drummer, oh dear oh dear) , back on topic: I like the new album (great cover photo as well IMHO)
Please give me a little review while I have to wait :corn
As you wish:
It's very expansive in its scope (similar to how The Way Up was, but TWU was different of course, with all the nods to Steve Reich), very daring. Pat goes out quite a bit (melodically speaking). The fact that strings are added gives a more "soundtrack-esque" edge to the proceedings at time. You'll love it I would guess. I needed this record from Pat, because just when you think he's done it all, he surprises us with this one.
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The vinyl is in mail somewhere, on the way to me! Very excited for this album.
I also always loved the contributions by the mighty Lyle Mays, I always felt they made Pat's music complete. I hope that From This Place will be a great album, even without Lyle (I haven't listened to the Unity Band albums that often).
Talking about The Way Up. I think that is Pat's greatest album and truly the peak of The Pat Metheny Group. Still, I would love a new album by the band, although I don't see that happen without Lyle.
Lyle was my favourite member of PMG (says a drummer, oh dear oh dear) , back on topic: I like the new album (great cover photo as well IMHO)
Please give me a little review while I have to wait :corn
As you wish:
It's very expansive in its scope (similar to how The Way Up was, but TWU was different of course, with all the nods to Steve Reich), very daring. Pat goes out quite a bit (melodically speaking). The fact that strings are added gives a more "soundtrack-esque" edge to the proceedings at time. You'll love it I would guess. I needed this record from Pat, because just when you think he's done it all, he surprises us with this one.
Holy shit, that sounds awesome. Can't wait for this album to arrive. I have an exam tomorrow and only a few lectures over the rest of the week, so I'll be spinning this album extensively. I am also very excited that this one also seems to feature that soundtrack-esque/strings/world-jazz combination to some extent - a combination that I loved on Secret Story.
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yes, it totally has a Soundtrack-like vibe throughout, which is another reason I am into it.
I honestly am almost shocked how much I am enjoying this album, after what seemed like vanilla records the last decade, he finally has my head turning again.
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The album arrived this morning and I am spinning it for the first time right now! Great string arrangements. And you gotta love Antonio Sanchez' super precise and slim-sounding ride cymbal attacks.
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So I have Gavin Harrison's Cheating The Polygraph, Steven Wilson's Catalogue/Preserve/Amass and the Once Upon A Time In Hollywood soundtrack lying here - all new in my collection, but all unlistened to - because From This Place is just gorgeous and it hasn't left my turntable since it arrived. I love that Metheny always manages to make you feel like you've heard a song before, but you really haven't. The more uptempo songs give off a great spring-like feeling, maybe that's why I can't stop listening to them. The string arrangements are subtle and very effective, but never "too much" or corny. Same goes for the melodies: typical for Metheny, they're always memorable but never silly. And what is up with the finale of America Undefined... majestic.
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Wow, I totally forgot about this thread. I got caught up in life, guys. Is anyone interested in continuing this??
FROM THIS PLACE
:tup :tup
love the way the orchestral/chamber instrumentation is arranged. Maybe his best since 2005's "The Way Up"
some great, magical moments on this, even with it's 77+ minute length. Reminds me at times of how I fell in love with Pat Metheny's music many years ago.
Yea, it's not often an album so long holds my attention throughout. I agree that this is his best album since at least The Way Up fifteen years ago.
The spirit of Lyle Mays can be felt throughout the album, as the pianist on the album reminds me of him a little. The track "Sixty-Six" holds more meaning to me than it just representing Pat being 66 at the time of recording, since Mays died at 66, and the tune is reminiscent of the Pat Metheny Group's biggest hit "Last Train Home" so it feels like a tribute to Pat and Lyle's time together.
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Screw it, I'll try to keep it going.
Where we are at so far
"Jaco" (1974)
Gary Burton Quintet with Eberhard Weber - Ring (1974)
Gary Burton Quintet - Dreams So Real (1975)
Gary Burton Quartet with Eberhard Weber - Passengers (1976)
Bright Size Life (ECM, 1976)
Watercolors (ECM, 1977)
Pat Metheny Group (ECM, 1978)
New Chautauqua (ECM, 1979)
American Garage (ECM, 1979)
80/81 (ECM, 1980)
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Pat Metheny & Lyle Mays - As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls (1981)
(https://ecmreviews.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/wichita.jpg)
Side one
1. "As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls" 20:44
Side two
1. "Ozark" 4:03
2. "September Fifteenth" (dedicated to Bill Evans) 7:45
3. "'It's for You'" 8:20
4. "Estupenda Graça" 2:40
Pat Metheny – electric and acoustic 6- and 12-string guitars, Synclavier II, bass guitar
Lyle Mays – piano, Prophet 5 & Oberheim FVS synthesizers, Synclavier II, electric organ, autoharp
Naná Vasconcelos – berimbau, percussion, drums, vocals
This is really a Pat Metheny Group album in disguise, especially when you consider Pat and Lyle wrote most of the music for PMG anyway. This is also the beginning of the world-music phase of Pat and Lyle. Vasconcelos' first appearance here, he would later join the Pat Metheny Group for the next couple of albums. Some say this is Pat's best album, a lot of people who don't generally listen to Pat tend to at least know this album. There is good reason for this, the opening epic title track is captivating to say the least. I think it's one of the best progressive rock epics ever made. It doesn't have all the bombast and pyrotechnics you would expect with a 20 minute epic; instead the music is more ambient, brooding, mysterious, with (*spoiler*) an really uplifting ending. The 2nd side has one of Pat and Lyle's most famous compositions, "It's For You" and has one of Pat's coolest guitar solo moments. "September Fifteenth" has one of the most beautiful passages of music in Lyle's catalog. Heart tugging playing here all around, a real tribute to one of his inspirations and one of the best Jazz pianists, Bill Evans (yes, THE Bill Evans, the one who played with Miles Davis on Kind of Blue.)
Nana's work here is understated, but he brings the Brazilian flavor that is heard on most of Pat's albums throughout the 80s well into the 90s with his percussion and wordless vocals.
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Just read my way through this thread. I suppose in order to play along I really ought to start from the beginning of his discography and catch up. But more broadly speaking, is there one defining Metheny album that I should start with? Maybe the first Pat Metheny Group album from the description you gave? This Metheny & Mays album sounds interesting as well.
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I'm still interested. I have a bunch of Metheny on my hard drive, but I don't know much about it other than it's all great.
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Just read my way through this thread. I suppose in order to play along I really ought to start from the beginning of his discography and catch up. But more broadly speaking, is there one defining Metheny album that I should start with? Maybe the first Pat Metheny Group album from the description you gave? This Metheny & Mays album sounds interesting as well.
Yea I'll wait a while before proceeding to the next album to allow people to catch up.
I would say you can start with either the Pat Metheny Group self titled album for more airy, mid-western tinged prog-jazz fusion, or "Bright Size Life" which is more post-bop related with pastoral sounds and of course the legendary Jaco Pastorius on bass. I say listen to both.
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I believe I have the Wichita Falls album on vinyl, but have never got around to playing it. But given it resembles some of the records that followed, i probably need to.
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Screw it, I'll try to keep it going.
Sorry for not responding, yes please continue! Very interesting read!
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Listened to the first Pat Metheny Group album last night and really enjoyed it. What stood out to me is how piano/keyboard heavy it is. Was expecting more Metheny but it makes sense for a jazz album to be more piano heavy I suppose. I’m gonna try to listen along to as many of these as I can.
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Side one
1. "As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls" 20:44
I've always loved this track. So atmospheric.
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Side one
1. "As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls" 20:44
I've always loved this track. So atmospheric.
So many great sections I don't even know what my favorite is. Also, I'm pretty sure the counting later on is the only time Metheny's voice can be heard on any album he's ever played on. The counting I believe was inserted accidentally but was left in, I'm glad they did. When he says "3", a big major chord comes in and continues the beautiful ascension the climax of the piece takes.
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Screw it, I'll try to keep it going.
Sorry for not responding, yes please continue! Very interesting read!
It's all good, I didn't wait very long for a response. :P
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Went back to Bright Sized Life, and it’s more of the guitar oriented album I was expecting from Metheny. However, I enjoyed it much less than the first PMG album (though I will admit I’m listening at work which is a much worse listening environment than I had last night). It’s much more free form and, and it’s not as melodic and memorable* as the band effort. Certainly an impressive performance though.
*I should probably say less immediate or accessible. I’m sure repeated listens might reveal more to me. Probably never fair to judge a jazz album on one cursory listen.
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I’m kind of obsessed with Phase Dance right now. That main theme or whatever has been stuck in my head all week. Can’t tell if it’s something I’ve heard before or if it just sounds like other jazzy stuff I’ve heard before (my dad used to listen to smooth jazz radio stations, but most of that was really fluffy contemporary 90s stuff). But I really like it.
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So many great sections I don't even know what my favorite is. Also, I'm pretty sure the counting later on is the only time Metheny's voice can be heard on any album he's ever played on. The counting I believe was inserted accidentally but was left in, I'm glad they did. When he says "3", a big major chord comes in and continues the beautiful ascension the climax of the piece takes.
That's not Pat, it's Lyle. Apparently, he was counting the number of second timing indicators for his synth track to organize multiple synths when Manfred Eicher accidentally unmuted the microphone and it got mixed in the music.
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So many great sections I don't even know what my favorite is. Also, I'm pretty sure the counting later on is the only time Metheny's voice can be heard on any album he's ever played on. The counting I believe was inserted accidentally but was left in, I'm glad they did. When he says "3", a big major chord comes in and continues the beautiful ascension the climax of the piece takes.
That's not Pat, it's Lyle. Apparently, he was counting the number of second timing indicators for his synth track to organize multiple synths when Manfred Eicher accidentally unmuted the microphone and it got mixed in the music.
I haven't heard that album in years, and the last time I heard the title track was on the Travels live album. Will revisit this one today! :metal
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So many great sections I don't even know what my favorite is. Also, I'm pretty sure the counting later on is the only time Metheny's voice can be heard on any album he's ever played on. The counting I believe was inserted accidentally but was left in, I'm glad they did. When he says "3", a big major chord comes in and continues the beautiful ascension the climax of the piece takes.
That's not Pat, it's Lyle. Apparently, he was counting the number of second timing indicators for his synth track to organize multiple synths when Manfred Eicher accidentally unmuted the microphone and it got mixed in the music.
Thanks, I didn't realize it was Lyle. That makes me enjoy that section even more. I'm listening to it now. I can never get tired of this album.
Yea, Eicher is notorious for recording and mixing albums on his ECM label in 2-3 days to keep the spontaneous nature preserved.
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I’m kind of obsessed with Phase Dance right now. That main theme or whatever has been stuck in my head all week. Can’t tell if it’s something I’ve heard before or if it just sounds like other jazzy stuff I’ve heard before (my dad used to listen to smooth jazz radio stations, but most of that was really fluffy contemporary 90s stuff). But I really like it.
A lot of Pat's (and Lyle's) music makes you feel like you've heard it before. Not because it sounds like something else, but because the melodies are so good, so rich, so melodic, that I think the brain can't rationalize how it hadn't heard this before now.
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Only just seen this thread so will try to keep up.
AFWSFWF was the first studio PM album I bought about 30 years ago (I already had Travels), and was a response to watching Fandango. "It's For You" was featured towards the end of that film, and I was mesmerised by how the musical atmosphere matched the dance sequence. IFY is still one of my favourite instumentals.
I love the way the title track builds atmosphere and tension, teasing its main theme before diverting for a while to a slightly sinister vocal section (if it can be so called, before the final climax of the main theme. The extended outro after the main climax, which is omitted in Travels, adds more atmosphere with random spoken numbers (I never understood why ;D)
Osark is a great upbeat way to follow what came before.
September Fifteenth is a lovely slower piece mainly featuring Lyle Mays (a deliciously subtle keyboardist).
Amazing Grace featuring Nana Casconcelos makes a nice Coda to the album.
I bought this on CD and would have thought there may be a decent remaster by now... I should have a look.
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I bought this on CD and would have thought there may be a decent remaster by now... I should have a look.
https://jazztimes.com/blog/pat-metheny-ecm-catalog-now-available-in-hi-res-audio/
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Offramp
Pat Metheny Group
released 1982
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9d/Pat_Metheny_Group-Offramp_%28album_cover%29.jpg/220px-Pat_Metheny_Group-Offramp_%28album_cover%29.jpg)
Side one
1. "Barcarole" 3:17
2. "Are You Going with Me?" 8:47
3. "Au Lait" 8:32
Side two
1. "Eighteen" 5:08
2. "Offramp" 5:59
3. "James" 6:47
4. "The Bat Part II" 3:50
Pat Metheny – electric and acoustic guitar, guitar synthesizer, Synclavier
Lyle Mays – piano, synthesizers, autoharp, electric organ, Synclavier
Steve Rodby – electric and acoustic bass
Danny Gottlieb – drums
Naná Vasconcelos – percussion, voice, berimbau
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This is one of my favorites and also one of the band's best. First appearance of Naná Vasconcelos on a proper Pat Metheny Group recording. It's also Steve Rodby's first album with the Group, replacing Mark Egan; who would go on with his Elements band alongside Danny Gottlieb who remained with Pat, Lyle, and co. for a little while longer. Rodby himself would remain with the Pat Metheny Group til the end, as well as produce and co-produce almost all of Pat's albums from the 90s-onwards. This album was a commercial success and the lead single "Are You Going With Me?" became a hit on jazz and 'smooth' jazz radio stations across the country. It also became a staple of live performances and has been re-recorded by Pat a few times in different musical contexts over the years. Same thing with the tune James.
Offramp brings a light Brazilian flavor to the Group for the first time, a characteristic of the PMG's music going well into the early 90s, and the Group mixes it well with the mid-Western vibe of the previous PMG albums. I enjoy this album most in spring/summer or early fall evenings. It just feels like the right time to listen to the music, as it is a little more of a laid back album than some of the other Pat Metheny Group albums... Except for the title track, which might scare you off at first (I used to dislike this tune) and sometimes seems out of place, but I've grown to enjoy it's charm. It isn't all dissonant, just the abrupt beginning of the tune. This track does bring it down a notch so the album isn't my all-time #1 favorite, but the rest of the album is some of my favorite Metheny/Mays music so it's still top 5. What do you guys think?
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Like most Pat Metheny stuff I haven't heard this album either but I'll give it a spin tomorrow and let you know my thoughts.
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I had a listen to Offramp and I liked it but like the few other Pat Metheny albums I've listened to it's going to take some repeat listens for it to grow on me. I really liked "James" and "Are You Going With Me?". I very much didn't like Barcarole though. One thing you mentioned was the Brazilian flavor and I can definitely hear it. In this context I think it works well, I was really struggling with it back when I was first trying to get into Pat Metheny a few years ago.
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I had a listen to Offramp and I liked it but like the few other Pat Metheny albums I've listened to it's going to take some repeat listens for it to grow on me. I really liked "James" and "Are You Going With Me?". I very much didn't like Barcarole though. One thing you mentioned was the Brazilian flavor and I can definitely hear it. In this context I think it works well, I was really struggling with it back when I was first trying to get into Pat Metheny a few years ago.
I find most of Pat's tunes to be slow burners. Every single album gets better every time I listen to it though. Witchita Falls was one of my least favorites for a long time, thought it was boring, then suddenly it all clicked and I think it's one of his and Lyle's best albums and one of the best prog-jazz albums ever. With Offramp, I was fascinated with the first track Barcarole when I first heard it because I've always been intrigued by world music.
One of the things that caught my attention when I was new to Pat's music was how there are these moments throughout Pat Metheny Group albums that remind me of moments on DT's Images and Words and Awake albums, though that might just be that 80s/early 90s aesthetic but it was something that made me think the guys back then were listening to PMG a little.
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I haven't listened to much of Pat's music but one album of his that immediately clicked for me was One Quiet Night, I love the solo acoustic pieces on that album.
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Offramp was one of the 1st Metheny albums I heard per I recall checking it from the library about 20 years ago. I came to find it to be one of his most popular albums of the 80's records.
It has enough of the synthy guitars but also the incorporation of the ethnic (Brazilian) styles that add to it.
It's odd how I would probably put Offramp in my top 5 Metheny records, and yet maybe since I haven't listened to it in ages, I'm not sure that still makes sense to do.
I do recall when I 1st heard it, it had enough of those wow/holy shit,/this-music-could-be-used-for-therapy kind of energy and vibe, that it put me in awe of Metheny.
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Offramp was one of the 1st Metheny albums I heard per I recall checking it from the library about 20 years ago. I came to find it to be one of his most popular albums of the 80's records.
It has enough of the synthy guitars but also the incorporation of the ethnic (Brazilian) styles that add to it.
It's odd how I would probably put Offramp in my top 5 Metheny records, and yet maybe since I haven't listened to it in ages, I'm not sure that still makes sense to do.
I do recall when I 1st heard it, it had enough of those wow/holy shit,/this-music-could-be-used-for-therapy kind of energy and vibe, that it put me in awe of Metheny.
I've found, especially with the Group albums or whenever Lyle Mays is involved, is an underlying prog structure that is easily unnoticeable because of how subtle it is and it is underneath all the fireworks of the synth patches and mild psychedelia.
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new album "Road to the Sun" coming March 5th, 2021
https://www.instagram.com/p/CIYa9-WA37q/
Verified
PAT METHENY'S NEW ALBUM ROAD TO THE SUN
DUE OUT MARCH 5, 2021
AVAILABLE FOR PRE-ORDER NOW!
[Link in Bio]
FIRST EXCERPT ROAD TO THE SUN, PART 2 IS AVAILABLE NOW
There are only a handful of living musicians who can continually reinvent themselves year after year, and even fewer still who can claim to have maintained equal degrees of innovation and sheer excellence across a career spanning decades. Pat Metheny is one of the few artists in the world who can lay claim to such a description. Road To The Sun is yet another unexpected and genre-defying new recording from the 20 time Grammy winning guitarist/composer Pat Metheny.
This recording features two major extended works for classical guitar. Road To The Sun is performed by the legendary @laguitarquartet and performing Pat’s new solo guitar piece, Four Paths of Light is Grammy winning virtuoso, @jasonvieauxguitar .
“I am blown away by this new (Metheny) composition every time we play it. Such beautiful melodic and harmonic flow! Although his fans will recognize it as undeniably Metheny, he develops his thematic material so skillfully that the average concert-goer will get lost in his world. A soundscape of epic proportions.” - Scott Tennant (Los Angeles Guitar Quartet)
“Whenever an artist of Pat’s significance writes not only a substantial work, but a piece that requires real virtuosity to perform it (and has his musical imprint all over it), it’s a big moment for classical guitar.” -Jason Vieaux
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Great news! Didn't notice this sooner.
I'm willing to continue the discography if everyone is caught up?
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I saw these news too, but I don't quite understand: Is Pat himself gonna be playing on this album or not? Because it sounds like he has written some music and other guitarists will play it (kind of like Billy Joel's classical piano album). If Pat doesn't play on this album, I'd be kinda disappointed.
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It does seem that way, and while it is disappointing, this is better than no new music which was the status quo from 2015-2019 (when Pat is known for putting out at least one album every year since 1975.
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https://variety.com/2021/music/news/library-of-congress-national-recording-registry-nas-janet-jackson-1234936992/
:tup
Bright Size Life was added to the National Recording Registry
The complete 2020 National Recording Registry entries, in chronological order:
1. Edison’s “St. Louis tinfoil” recording (1878)
2. “Nikolina” — Hjalmar Peterson (1917) (single)
3. “Smyrneikos Balos” — Marika Papagika (1928) (single)tinatina Walker
4. “When the Saints Go Marching In” — Louis Armstrong & his Orchestra (1938) (single)
5. Christmas Eve Broadcast–Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill (December 24,
1941)
6. “The Guiding Light” — Nov. 22, 1945
7. “Odetta Sings Ballads and Blues” — Odetta (1957) (album)
8. “Lord, Keep Me Day by Day” — Albertina Walker and the Caravans (1959) (single)
9. Roger Maris hits his 61st homerun (October 1, 1961)
10. “Aida” — Leontyne Price, et.al. (1962) (album)
11. “Once a Day” — Connie Smith (1964) (single)
12. “Born Under a Bad Sign” — Albert King (1967) (album)
13. “Free to Be…You & Me” — Marlo Thomas and Friends (1972) (album)
14. “The Harder They Come” — Jimmy Cliff (1972) (album)
15. “Lady Marmalade” — Labelle (1974) (single)
16. “Late for the Sky” — Jackson Browne (1974) (album)
17. “Bright Size Life” — Pat Metheny (1976) (album)
18. “The Rainbow Connection” — Kermit the Frog (1979) (single)
19. “Celebration” — Kool & the Gang (1980) (single)
20. “Richard Strauss: Four Last Songs” — Jessye Norman (1983) (album)
21. “Janet Jackson’s Rhythm Nation 1814” — Janet Jackson (1989) (album)
22. “Partners” — Flaco Jiménez (1992) (album)
23. “Somewhere Over the Rainbow”/”What A Wonderful World” — Israel Kamakawiwo’ole (1993) (single)
24. “Illmatic” — Nas (1994) (album)
25. “This American Life: The Giant Pool of Money” (May 9, 2008)
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:tup :tup :tup
What a lineup: Pat Metheny, Jaco Pastorius, Bob Moses, and Gary Burton (uncredited producer)
https://www.loc.gov/item/prn-21-015/national-recording-registry-adds-rhythm-nation-among-25-new-selections/2021-03-24/ (https://www.loc.gov/item/prn-21-015/national-recording-registry-adds-rhythm-nation-among-25-new-selections/2021-03-24/)
Jaco's own self-titled debut album should be in there as well.
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I’m kind of obsessed with Phase Dance right now. That main theme or whatever has been stuck in my head all week. Can’t tell if it’s something I’ve heard before or if it just sounds like other jazzy stuff I’ve heard before (my dad used to listen to smooth jazz radio stations, but most of that was really fluffy contemporary 90s stuff). But I really like it.
Ha, I just figured out what Phase Dance reminded me of. The theme song from Who’s the Boss is a total knock off!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zkD9wzrrhiA&t=1s
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I’m kind of obsessed with Phase Dance right now. That main theme or whatever has been stuck in my head all week. Can’t tell if it’s something I’ve heard before or if it just sounds like other jazzy stuff I’ve heard before (my dad used to listen to smooth jazz radio stations, but most of that was really fluffy contemporary 90s stuff). But I really like it.
Ha, I just figured out what Phase Dance reminded me of. The theme song from Who’s the Boss is a total knock off!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zkD9wzrrhiA&t=1s
Larry Carlton wrote it, he has some of those early 80s smooth jazz-isms in his sound, but yea, that intro is a total rip off.
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Going to restart this. Sticking with only solo albums and "Group" albums, and albums not under Pat's name where he has a major presence and/or wrote majority of the music. So no albums where Pat is merely a sideman (even if he contributed a song or two) but these albums can be discussed along the way. I am also going to include Lyle Mays' solo albums as he is 1/2 the Group album sound, wrote half the music, and has a discography thread that is too short with only 5 albums.
I always recommend listening to these 4 recordings as a lead up to Pat's debut album, Bright Size Life, recorded in 1975 and released in 1976.
They show how much he progressed from his first real recording with Jaco Pastorius, Paul Bley, and Bruce Ditmas, to Gary Burton's Passengers, the first major recording with mostly Pat's compositions, recorded around the same time as Bright Size Life.
Jaco (1974)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41V95DGAK9L._SY580_.jpg)
Gary Burton - Ring (1974)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/Gary_Burton_Quintet_Ring.jpg)
Gary Burton - Dreams So Real (1975)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71LB8XabBOL._SY355_.jpg)
Gary Burton - Passengers (1976)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/413nXeCytUL._SX355_.jpg)
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Bright Size Life (1976)
(https://img.discogs.com/p06csofkLb2RtdLZeo2rMZgy2YA=/fit-in/600x606/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7540570-1612104470-4072.jpeg.jpg)
This album was recently selected for preservation in the National Recording Registry by the Library of Congress, and clear to hear why when you listen to this music. This might be the most popular 70s jazz album that isn't a fusion recording, yet this album was pretty much unknown during that decade. The music has a way of warming up to you every time it's on. To me, this is the purest Metheny album and as it is just guitar, bass, and drums, no effects. I can listen to this morning, noon, or night. This album never gets old for me, I've probably listened to it a hundred times.
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btw, Pete Pardo from Sea of Tranquiity recently did a "Ranking the Albums"" video for Pat Metheny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ksedk1BKI
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Watercolors (1977)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Pat_Metheny_-_Watercolours.jpg)
First appearance with Lyle Mays. An album with a colorful ensemble. A great morning album to get the day going.
Some interesting sounds that wouldn't get repeated much in future Metheny recordings. Lyle Mays playing is already top notch here.
Not my favorite overall album by Pat, but one I do find myself listening to a lot for it's mysterious aura (and a couple of early classics like River Quay, Lakes, and the title track.)
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Listening to Watercolors now. I wish I could think of something to say about this music other than that I think it's really, really good.
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Listening to Watercolors now. I wish I could think of something to say about this music other than that I think it's really, really good.
Pat has such a unique tone, and the material at this stage is very pastoral, evoking images of wide open Midwestern US landscape, or isolation in thick wood, maybe near a body of water. A lot of the music coming out in the late 70s from Pat as well as much of the other artists at the ECM label at the time was a lot more creative than what other Jazz musicians were doing. It really goes beyond jazz, or rock. Pat is a jazz musician who plays like he's in a rock band. The moods invoked are unlike much of anything else out there.
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Pat is a jazz musician who plays like he's in a rock band.
See, that's the kind of thing I was trying to come up with. How would I describe his playing? I have no idea. But "a jazz musician who plays like he's in a rock band" is both immediately clear and something I never would have thought of. Pat goes for it, dives right in, yet somehow his music has a "clean and light" sound that's hard to quantify.
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Pat Metheny Group self titled debut (1978)
(https://www.patmetheny.com/assets/images/media_images/pat-metheny-group.jpg)
An amazing debut for an amazing band. Every song here is a classic. Pat Metheny Group is a rare band where chops play second fiddle to melody. Every note on this album is hummable and catchy but there is a hidden complexity to the music that unearths itself with repeated listens. To me, this is the soundtrack to those drives across back roads that cut through farms, fields, etc.. or mountainous landscape, on bright sunny days. Even though this music is uplifting, there is a certain sadness in there, particularly from Lyle Mays' piano playing. His style is reminiscent of the great Bill Evans, and paired with Metheny's ethereal playing, they create music that is both joyous and unique.
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Pat Metheny - New Chautauqua (1978)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/New_Chautauqua.jpg)
Pat's first SOLO recording. However, there are multiple guitars and bass in the mix, all played by Pat, so obviously it is not a solo guitar album. It almost sounds like a Pat or PMG album of this time period, just without drums. I could picture drums on almost all tracks. Pat Metheny Group played some of these songs live, so obviously those had drums, and they sound cool. But the moodiness is what this album is all about. Drums are not missed here, as the songs themselves are strong enough without them. Long Ago Child might be a little long, and very much reminds me of some of the sounds from Watercolors, but the other tracks work very well. The opening title track to the closer Day Break. This album has all the features of Pat's old sound, with his electric guitar front and center. Not one I pick up as often as the albums surrounding it, but always a good choice when I do.
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I just had a listen to the Pat Metheny Group album. I know I've listened to this album before when my buddy was trying to get me into Pat and when this thread started but today is the first time it "clicked". I don't know why I didn't care for it at first but I really enjoyed it.
I think one thing with Pat is that his music always seemed a little intimidating to me but surprisingly this album was light, airy and full of great melodies. I'll give New Chautauqua a listen this weekend.
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Pat Metheny Group - American Garage (1979)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/00/Pmg_-_american_garage.jpg)
To me this album pairs well with the debut PMG album. They have a similar sound, that pastoral, melodic, post-fusion progressive jazz that makes you think of scenery depicted on the album cover (blue skies, puffy clouds, midwestern landscape.) When I listen to these first two PMG albums, and other PMG albums, I always think "this is really the Lyle Mays Group" because Lyle really dominates the sound, his keyboard work is all over the albums.
The only downside is the last track "The Epic" which I like but it is a little all over the place, doesn't really have any central theme that I am aware of. Even Pat and Lyle have expressed disinterest in the piece. Airstream might be my favorite here, and I really like the title track, one of those somewhat rare moments of the band rocking out.
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I'm a big fan of Pat Metheny Group, the debut and American Garage. I also listened to his newest "From This Place", which I enjoyed a lot. I like the two Group albums I've heard much better than the solo stuff, though, which seems more like hardcore jazz.
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I'm a big fan of Pat Metheny Group, the debut and American Garage. I also listened to his newest "From This Place", which I enjoyed a lot. I like the two Group albums I've heard much better than the solo stuff, though, which seems more like hardcore jazz.
From This Place is the closest to a Pat Metheny Group album Pat has released since The Way Up, or maybe Orchestrion. It's also one of his best.
The Group albums are more band efforts (collaboration with Lyle and/or others bring in material) and the closest thing to "rock" albums for this kind of music, same with Lyle's early albums.
Pat's own solo albums often lean more towards jazz, improvisation, or even chamber music and is all written by him, but there are exceptions, such as Secret Story, and From This Place, among others, which are more in line with PMG. Some of his solo albums that lean more towards "hardcore" jazz have one or more tracks that are more reminiscent of PMG.
Pat's "jazz" albums cover a wide variety of jazz styles, some of it I would not classify as "hardcore", but there's a couple of albums that go to the extremes. Something like 80/81, which is the next album, is serious jazz, but not free-jazz or of the sort, though there are some dissonant moments. It's more like post-bop similar to Miles Davis or Wes Montgomery, but with the Metheny touch (and the other members on that album bring their own style, but more on that later...) Pat HAS released some stuff that is a bit... tough to listen to, for anyone who isn't familiar with a lot of jazz that might be more atonal or avant-garde, but Pat does not dwell in these musical areas a lot, to great relief (I don't find that kind of stuff to be his strong point.) If you don't have the ears for jazz, at least progressive jazz, avant-garde, or other styles developed since the early 60s that isn't fusion related, I could see how a lot of jazz comes off as "hardcore", especially compared to the Pat Metheny Group sound, which is generally quite warm and inviting, and include things that are more "mainstream" like rock rhythms and Latin styles.
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Using the term hardcore jazz was a poor choice on my part because I'm not really steeped enough in jazz lingo to tell you what that means. Over the last few years I've probably listened to more jazz than any other "new to me" genre and some stuff has resonated more than others. The post bop you mentioned is kind of right in the wheelhouse of where I'm comfortable currently, and I like them more accessible stuff from there. When it just becomes the musicians trading verses that's where I get a little bit less interested. I think that's why the Pat Metheny gGoup albums I've heard resonate so much, because they sound a little bit more composed. It's not just the head followed by all of the people in the band trading solos until the end.
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Pat Metheny - 80/81 (1980)
with Charlie Haden, Jack DeJohnette, Dewey Redman, Michael Brecker
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/8081album.jpg)
An all star lineup and the first album where Pat shows that he can hang with "real" jazz musicians and play "real" jazz. Not that what he was doing prior wasn't real jazz, I use quotes because many Jazz purists despise fusion, or anything that isn't in the sphere of bop, or swing, so a lot of ECM jazz music is seen as not real jazz music. But this lineup is made up of some of the best musicians in the genre, so this opened many eyes and ears on Metheny in the jazz world who may have not given Pat much attention at that point. Despite that, the music is not just post-bop late night party jazz, this is more open spaced sounding. There are acoustic guitars along with electric and some folksy sounding stuff, like in the opening tunes "Two Folk Songs", strong melodies and dynamic swells such as on "The Bat", some heavy improv and freer moments like on "Open", bluesy romps like on the Ornette Coleman piece, "Turnaround", and it all culminates in the last two tunes, "Every Day (I Thank You)" and "Goin' Ahead": the first is a 14 minute piece showcasing Michael Brecker's prowess at the tenor sax, but also how much emotion he can bring out of it, especially since at this point he was mainly seen as a jazz-fusion and funk-jazz sax player. In this context, we hear a player hitting peaks ala Coltrane, while underneath Pat provides lovely textures with his guitar and the rhythm section is just destroying everything. The middle section where the band drops out leaving Pat playing alone is such a gorgeous piece it brings me to tears. The second piece Goin' Ahead is a mostly improvised piece, yet sounds entirely composed, and is one of the most beautiful passages of music I've ever heard.
An interesting transitional period for Pat, and going forward we'll start to hear many changes in his and the Group's sound.
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I have a little trouble with this one. I like some kinds of jazz, but I swear, sometimes "real" jazz apparently means wailing and wailing without any regard for what the rest of the band is even playing. The comparison to Coltrane is fitting. I've never understood what people like about that guy. I don't hear anything resembling a melody. I just hear someone wailing and wailing without any regard for what the rest of the band is playing. What key is he even playing in? Doesn't matter. What song is this? Doesn't matter. He's just wailing for several minutes. Deal with it.
Sometimes. And then, as you said, there are also some very, very beautiful passages.
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I have a little trouble with this one. I like some kinds of jazz, but I swear, sometimes "real" jazz apparently means wailing and wailing without any regard for what the rest of the band is even playing. The comparison to Coltrane is fitting. I've never understood what people like about that guy. I don't hear anything resembling a melody. I just hear someone wailing and wailing without any regard for what the rest of the band is playing. What key is he even playing in? Doesn't matter. What song is this? Doesn't matter. He's just wailing for several minutes. Deal with it.
Sometimes. And then, as you said, there are also some very, very beautiful passages.
I'm not the biggest Coltrane fan either. But when I heard A Love Supreme for the first time I was speechless. And I still am whenever I hear it now.
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I think even big jazz fans have trouble with later Coltrane, as his playing became very 'out there' and I believe was supplemented with LSD and a spiritual awakening,
but honestly his playing with Miles Davis and on his earlier albums is butter to me. You can't deny his or anyone's playing on Kind of Blue, for example.
There are "exercises" to be found sometimes, like on Coltrane's album Giant Steps, but the melodies are still very much important in those tunes. Pat did a cover of the tune Giant Steps on his Trio 99->00 album.
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Moving along...
Pat Metheny & Lyle Mays - As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls (1981)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/de/As_Falls_Wichita.jpg/220px-As_Falls_Wichita.jpg)
One of my favorite albums by these guys, and an unofficial Pat Metheny Group album. Though billed as a duet, this is really a trio recording, with Naná Vasconcelos providing drums, percussion, and vocals. Pat overdubs bass along with guitar and Lyle is of course on piano, synths, and keyboards.
Opening with the 20+ minute epic title track, this tune moves from soundscapes, to strange electronic sounding percussion breaks, to droning guitar, to light airy keyboards, climaxing when the drums come crashing in while the main theme is played on top, with a beautiful ambient "coda" full of lush keyboards. That's Lyle counting those numbers there.
The rest of the album moves like a PMG album, and my favorite tune on the album is It's For You, an inspiring piece, with one of Pat' best guitar solos. September Fifteenth is also an emotional number, dedicated to the late Bill Evans (the one who played with Miles Davis, not the one who played with the band Elements, Mark Egan's band formed after getting kicked out of the PMG.) who passed during the making of this album. Naná Vasconcelos would go on to join the PMG for a couple of album after this.
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I think even big jazz fans have trouble with later Coltrane, as his playing became very 'out there' and I believe was supplemented with LSD and a spiritual awakening,
but honestly his playing with Miles Davis and on his earlier albums is butter to me. You can't deny his or anyone's playing on Kind of Blue, for example.
There are "exercises" to be found sometimes, like on Coltrane's album Giant Steps, but the melodies are still very much important in those tunes. Pat did a cover of the tune Giant Steps on his Trio 99->00 album.
Yeah, this is what I'd say. Kind of Blue and Blue Train are definitely albums to check out.
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I think even big jazz fans have trouble with later Coltrane, as his playing became very 'out there' and I believe was supplemented with LSD and a spiritual awakening,
but honestly his playing with Miles Davis and on his earlier albums is butter to me. You can't deny his or anyone's playing on Kind of Blue, for example.
There are "exercises" to be found sometimes, like on Coltrane's album Giant Steps, but the melodies are still very much important in those tunes. Pat did a cover of the tune Giant Steps on his Trio 99->00 album.
Yeah, this is what I'd say. Kind of Blue and Blue Train are definitely albums to check out.
For sure. Also, Round About Midnight and any of the 4 Prestige albums with Miles recorded to end the trumpeter's contract with the record label.
A Love Supreme is also seen as the bridge between Coltrane's earlier work and his later "out there" work, and is one of the most popular jazz albums besides Kind of Blue.
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More words on As Falls Witchita, a couple of 40th Anniversary retrospectives.
https://artsfuse.org/227188/arts-remembrance-at-40-pat-metheny-and-lyle-mays-as-falls-wichita-so-falls-wichita-falls-still-enthralls/ (https://artsfuse.org/227188/arts-remembrance-at-40-pat-metheny-and-lyle-mays-as-falls-wichita-so-falls-wichita-falls-still-enthralls/)
https://www.jazzviews.net/pat-metheny--lyle-mays---as-falls-wichita-so-falls-wichita-falls.html (https://www.jazzviews.net/pat-metheny--lyle-mays---as-falls-wichita-so-falls-wichita-falls.html)
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Pat Metheny Group - Offramp (1982)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9d/Pat_Metheny_Group-Offramp_%28album_cover%29.jpg/220px-Pat_Metheny_Group-Offramp_%28album_cover%29.jpg)
Only the 3rd official Pat Metheny Group album, and compared to the first 2 albums, this is like a new band, even if the only main difference in lineup is the bassist and one additional member. Steve Rodby joins on bass, and has remained with the Group since, as well being Pat's main producer on most of his albums since the 90s. Though his style is more reserved than Mark Egan's, I think it fits quite well in the band and makes the band sound more timeless. Also joining the band is Naná Vasconcelos who performed with Pat and Lyle on the previous album, As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls. He is a big reason for the change in the Group's sound. Naná bring exotic flavors and his Brazilian influence into the band's sound, while at the same time, Pat and Lyle have evolved since American Garage, with Lyle more involved in synthesizers and Pat bringing in synth guitar as well as both using Synclavier technology for the first time. The writing is also changed, sounds more mature, unlike efforts prior which were sometimes aimless or overly busy sounding; and of course less Americana sounding and more Brazilian-influenced and esoteric sounding in spots, like on the title track, which sticks out like a sore thumb on this album.
The first two tracks invite you in, and the album goes through a range of emotions that few bands are able to accomplish. Compared to other PMG albums, this one is a little more laid back, and I like to put this one on in the very late-late afternoon on a nice day when the sun is beginning to set, to unwind from the day. It has that relaxing vibe to me (except the title track, lol, I used to skip that one A LOT back in the day, but now I leave it when it comes on, it's grown on me.)
Overall this is one of my favorites, and one of the earliest Pat Metheny albums I checked out back in my teens when I only knew one or two other albums. The first album I ever heard was Jim Hall & Pat Metheny, then eventually I got The Way Up, then this album. That was probably in the span of 2 years though, I didn't desire to hear everything right away. Pat's music has a way of creeping up on you. Before you know it, you want to hear every note he and Lyle ever played, all the side projects of other PMG members or others Pat played with, etc... At least that's how it worked out over time for me.
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Took a listen to this album again and I've definitely warmed up to the album, I'm still not a big fan of Barcarole but I did enjoy this album.
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Pat Metheny Group - Travels (1983)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Pmg_-_travels.jpg)
The Group's first live album, released in 1983. Recorded throughout 1982 with the same lineup as the one on Offramp, this live album is not like most live albums from most bands. While there are certainly new renditions of older songs, there is quite a bit of new material here as well. 7 out of the 12 tunes featured here are previously unreleased tunes, so this is not to be skipped. I really like all of them, but Farmer's Trust, Extradition, and the title track are my favorites. The title track has a gorgeous melody. Straight on Red has some cool poly-rhythm thing going on during the main melody. There is a lot of exotic percussion on this album, and this is the first Pat Metheny Group album to feature extensive lead vocals by Nana Vasconcelos.
The older songs are all great, and some might say they're better than their original recordings. Are You Going With Me has Pat really shredding on the guitar like a mad man. I don't know why, but I prefer this version of Phase Dance over the original from the self titled debut. The Goin' Ahead/Witchita Falls combo is really exciting, and it's great to hear the actual group play that piece. San Lorenzo closes out the album, and really features more dynamics than the original recording. The audience is really into it on this version. Sadly, this would be the last album to feature Nana and original PMG drummer Danny Gotlieb, but Danny continued playing with former PMG bassist Mark Egan (from the first 2 PMG albums) in the band Elements.
Took a listen to this album again and I've definitely warmed up to the album, I'm still not a big fan of Barcarole but I did enjoy this album.
What do you think of the title track?
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I love a good live album, and this one is no exception. The ones that are previously unreleased sound great... actually it all sounds great. Jazz, to me, is best when it's performed live, so this is where it's at. Even on studio recordings, I prefer things as "live" as possible. Single take if possible, minimal (or no) overdubs. The only thing "studio" about it would be that it's recorded in a controlled environment, and possibly after a few takes.
Anyway, I love this one.
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Pat Metheny Group - Travels (1983)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Pmg_-_travels.jpg)
The Group's first live album, released in 1983. Recorded throughout 1982 with the same lineup as the one on Offramp, this live album is not like most live albums from most bands. While there are certainly new renditions of older songs, there is quite a bit of new material here as well. 7 out of the 12 tunes featured here are previously unreleased tunes, so this is not to be skipped. I really like all of them, but Farmer's Trust, Extradition, and the title track are my favorites. The title track has a gorgeous melody. Straight on Red has some cool poly-rhythm thing going on during the main melody. There is a lot of exotic percussion on this album, and this is the first Pat Metheny Group album to feature extensive lead vocals by Nana Vasconcelos.
The older songs are all great, and some might say they're better than their original recordings. Are You Going With Me has Pat really shredding on the guitar like a mad man. I don't know why, but I prefer this version of Phase Dance over the original from the self titled debut. The Goin' Ahead/Witchita Falls combo is really exciting, and it's great to hear the actual group play that piece. San Lorenzo closes out the album, and really features more dynamics than the original recording. The audience is really into it on this version. Sadly, this would be the last album to feature Nana and original PMG drummer Danny Gotlieb, but Danny continued playing with former PMG bassist Mark Egan (from the first 2 PMG albums) in the band Elements.
Took a listen to this album again and I've definitely warmed up to the album, I'm still not a big fan of Barcarole but I did enjoy this album.
What do you think of the title track?
Probably my second least favorite. :lol I'm actually listening to the album again right now though and it definitely grows with subsequent listens.
A bit unrelated but I saw that Pat is coming fairly close to where I live and thanks to this thread I'm going to try and go see him.
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That's pretty cool. I'm considering going to see him this year as well.
You don't like that first track, though. I just picture the sun setting in a wilderness environment and Pat's guitar sounds like an elephant blowing it's trunk. :laugh:
I love a good live album, and this one is no exception. The ones that are previously unreleased sound great... actually it all sounds great. Jazz, to me, is best when it's performed live, so this is where it's at. Even on studio recordings, I prefer things as "live" as possible. Single take if possible, minimal (or no) overdubs. The only thing "studio" about it would be that it's recorded in a controlled environment, and possibly after a few takes.
Anyway, I love this one.
It is a good live album, but this is one of my least favorite PMG albums overall, at least from the 80s/early 90s era. Not because it's not good, since they have no bad albums, but I just like the other albums surrounding it more, and I had heard their live album "The Road To You" long before I heard Travels and the sound production is like night and day, Travels just being fine, good for the era, but TRTY production is stellar. The performances of course, as stated earlier, are great.
However, there is tons to enjoy.
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I guess I don't think that much about the production of live albums. I mean yeah, it matters; a really bad mix or seriously muddy sound or clipping can ruin a good performance. But having grown up on live albums with less-than-great production (Yessongs, ELP's Welcome Back..., Chicago at Carnegie Hall) it's always been about the playing. I can listen "through" the bad production and hear the playing, as I said, as long as the sound isn't so horrible that I just can't listen. Something about hearing a band play live in real time gives it the extra push, and for me adds a few points on whatever scale one might be using.
On studio albums, it's almost the opposite. Since it's basically a given that the performances will be perfect, I want the sound to be perfect as well. There are no excuses when it's a studio album. Sometimes I listen to an album and think "You probably did five takes of this song, five tries to get the solo right, and this is what you put on the album?" :lol
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I guess I don't think that much about the production of live albums. I mean yeah, it matters; a really bad mix or seriously muddy sound or clipping can ruin a good performance. But having grown up on live albums with less-than-great production (Yessongs, ELP's Welcome Back..., Chicago at Carnegie Hall) it's always been about the playing. I can listen "through" the bad production and hear the playing, as I said, as long as the sound isn't so horrible that I just can't listen. Something about hearing a band play live in real time gives it the extra push, and for me adds a few points on whatever scale one might be using.
On studio albums, it's almost the opposite. Since it's basically a given that the performances will be perfect, I want the sound to be perfect as well. There are no excuses when it's a studio album. Sometimes I listen to an album and think "You probably did five takes of this song, five tries to get the solo right, and this is what you put on the album?" :lol
I don't know if you've heard The Road To You, but it could have been recorded yesterday, even though it's 30 years old. Travels sounds good, but not as much. I mostly just don't care for the original content on the album as much as the albums before and after, though.
I've listened to hundreds of audience recordings by many bands, a lot of Phish recordings, and I judge a "live album" like the ones released by PMG differently than I would a general live recording or a soundboard / release of a band or artist's full concert. Zappa was the same way, releasing live albums with mostly all new material not on previous albums. When a band is putting out a live album with more than half the album being original material previously unreleased, I'm going to hold it to a higher standard (The Road To You also features a lot of original material)
I totally agree though, that I want to hear the band in a live setting, especially in Jazz, as that is the true sound of the band. Pretty sure (not 100%) there's overdubs on the PMG live albums, but if you listen to their raw recordings they sound amazing as well.
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When a band is putting out a live album with more than half the album being original material previously unreleased, I'm going to hold it to a higher standard
That's fair. If the only official version of a song is on a live album, then in any meaningful context it's the version you use to compare with other songs. Expanding on that, the album itself can be judged on its songs in the same way as you'd compare studio albums. I hope that makes sense. I guess I'm saying that because I put such emphasis on the musical performances on a live album, over the quality of the songs themselves, that I never step back and judge the songs at all. That's weird. I've never thought about it that way before.
And even more oddly, with Zappa I don't seem to have that problem. Two of my first Zappa/Mothers albums were Roxy & Elsewhere, and Sheik Yerbouti. A "live" album and a "studio" album theoretically, but in both cases blurring the line between more than once. So with Frank I've come to think of his work as occurring almost in a third medium, set somewhere between live and studio. And that brings up the question "how much does it really matter?" Frank would take entire tracks from one song and put them on another song if he thought it sounded good. If something musical that happened during a live recording works with some stuff recorded in the studio, he puts it together.
So anyway... with Travels I guess I'm so busy going "Fug yeah, live Metheny!" that I never notice if the songs aren't killer quality. I'm easy to please. Pretty much any live music, especially guys like Pat Metheny and Lyle Mays, is gonna sound great to me.
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Right. Zappa constantly blurred the lines between studio and live on every album pretty much after the first few Mothers albums. Roxy is a great example, a "live" album with 90% new material.
The great thing about any live recording from PMG (or Zappa) is every solo is played differently, and sometimes there's jams.
It's a shame there aren't more live albums by PMG or Pat himself. With PMG there's been more live videos than live albums, and the videos/DVDs never came with audio versions, unfortunately. Pat has technically never actually released a live album as a leader under his own name.
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I'm going through Pat's discography chronologically right now. So far I've listened to Pat Metheny Group, Bright Size Life, American Garage, and Watercolors. Oh, and From the Place. I would probably rank them like this: PMG, American Garage, BSL, From this Place, and Watercolors.
Any advice on how to move forward would be appreciated. I'm tempted to just keep working up chronologically, spending at least 5-10 listens with each record. But if there's any other way I should navigate his discography, that's cool and I'd consider that as well.
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I'm going through Pat's discography chronologically right now. So far I've listened to Pat Metheny Group, Bright Size Life, American Garage, and Watercolors. Oh, and From the Place. I would probably rank them like this: PMG, American Garage, BSL, From this Place, and Watercolors.
Any advice on how to move forward would be appreciated. I'm tempted to just keep working up chronologically, spending at least 5-10 listens with each record. But if there's any other way I should navigate his discography, that's cool and I'd consider that as well.
I think chronologically is cool until you reach 1993 or so, as his discography diverts in a million directions after that point, and he becomes involved in a multitude of different projects both within the scope of his own music as well as other artist's music/vision. Then there's all the guest appearances he's made over the years on other people's albums that are worth checking out. From This Place from 2020, is a return to form album for Pat. A lot of his other releases for the last 15 years are jazzier, solo recordings, duets, or full bands that are "clinical" sounding, especially any release from the 2010s.
I'd say all Pat Metheny Group albums with Lyle Mays (which is all of them) are worth checking out sooner than later. I think any album he's released or appeared on up until and including 1993 is essential. Jack DeJohnette's album "Parallel Realities" is a Pat album in all but name (and features Herbie Hancock, plus there's a live recording out there with these guys, plus Dave Holland on bass, which is also great) and if you like the Group albums, check out Lyle Mays' first two albums, they're Metheny-less PMG albums (Lyle co-wrote most of the Group's music along with Pat) and feature Bill Frisell, Marc Johnson, among others. Be sure to also check out Pat's own album "Secret Story" from '92, which has almost every former or then-current member of PMG on it, plus many other musicians, and is one of his most emotionally moving albums.
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Pat Metheny - Rejoicing (1984)
with Charlie Haden and Billy Higgins
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d9/Rejoicing.jpg/220px-Rejoicing.jpg)
Pat's 2nd foray into non-fusion jazz, bringing back Charlie Haden from 80/81, as well as drum legend Billy Higgins (who played with John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Herbie Hancock, Sonny Rollins, and many other jazz greats). This album is definitely jazzier, and more stripped down than Pat's current music at the time. Bluesier too, something we only had a taste of on 80/81. The first 5 cuts are all of a similar vibe, laid back jazzy playing with a lot of slick playing by Pat, and Haden and Higgins support his playing very well, really plays well to his style. The 2nd side begins with Story from a Stranger, which is one of those tunes that kind of sounds like a lost PMG tune, Pat's non-PMG albums always tend to have at least one or two tracks like that. Pat busts out the synth guitar for this one, but the song itself is more emotional than the previous tunes.
Then we get to the centerpiece song, if only because it's the longest and is the finale to the album... but it is quite dissonant for a while, has that kind of anxious feeling to it, even if it sounds like the band is playing around a major scale; between the synth guitar, Haden's chromatic bass playing, and Higgins' shuffling around of the beat, it is not some background music to throw on casually, and would be distracting if you tried. All ends well with a short, tranquil, ambient piece similar to how Offramp ends with The Bat pt 2, Waiting For An Answer, which I believe was performed live together with The Calling as one long piece (There is a live album with DeJohnette "Montreal 89", might be a radio broadcast bootleg, and they perform a lot of this music, but this lineup also performed live in '86 if you can find a recording)
Apparently, the recording and release of this album would motivate Pat in leaving the ECM label, due to disagreements on how albums should be recorded. Pat wanted more than 2-3 days to record and mix everything, which is the process ECM producer Manfred Eicher insisted on, almost a policy. Pat felt Rejoicing did not come out the way he wanted it to, both in sound and production. After this album, Pat would release only one more album under the ECM label before moving on to different record labels.
A strange album, but one that I like to throw on a lot, especially for the tracks other than The Calling, which I might skip sometimes. The rest of the album is superb early afternoon or late night chilling music.
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Moving right along here, feel free to discuss any album so far.
Pat Metheny Group - First Circle (1984)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/db/Pmg_-_first_circle.jpg/220px-Pmg_-_first_circle.jpg)
Pat Metheny Group released their last album on ECM called "First Circle" and it's the beginning of a new era in Pat Metheny's and the Group's music.
First off, the band had hired a new drummer, Paul Wertico, as well as new multi-instrumentalist and singer Pedro Aznar to round off the quintet. To me, this is the classic PMG lineup, and many of the band's most famous songs came from this lineup, such as the title track on this album. This is the first album where we can hear vocals that play a more dominant role in the music than before in PMG, and the title track epitomizes this.
The album opens strangely though, but after that, we hear an almost thrash drum beat, followed by a waterfall of sounds, many never before heard on a Pat Metheny album. Colorful is a word to describe this era of the band. A big Brazilian influence in felt on this album and many more going forward. Then there are otherworldly things and mild psychedelia here and there. There is also the lovely If I Could, a more heartfelt piece. One of my favorite Pat albums, I'm a sucker for all these great melodies. There are tons of great melodies throughout this disc (except the first track, bleh.)
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Nothing to really add for me yet but I'm going to give First Circle and Rejoicing a listen tomorrow and report back.
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I ended up liking that Pat Metheny Group album so much I picked up a copy on vinyl:
(https://i.imgur.com/hj9ixAn.jpg)
Sounds fantastic on record.
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Nice! :tup
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Moving right along here, feel free to discuss any album so far.
Pat Metheny Group - First Circle (1984)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/db/Pmg_-_first_circle.jpg/220px-Pmg_-_first_circle.jpg)
Pat Metheny Group released their last album on ECM called "First Circle" and it's the beginning of a new era in Pat Metheny's and the Group's music.
First off, the band had hired a new drummer, Paul Wertico, as well as new multi-instrumentalist and singer Pedro Aznar to round off the quintet. To me, this is the classic PMG lineup, and many of the band's most famous songs came from this lineup, such as the title track on this album. This is the first album where we can hear vocals that play a more dominant role in the music than before in PMG, and the title track epitomizes this.
The album opens strangely though, but after that, we hear an almost thrash drum beat, followed by a waterfall of sounds, many never before heard on a Pat Metheny album. Colorful is a word to describe this era of the band. A big Brazilian influence in felt on this album and many more going forward. Then there are otherworldly things and mild psychedelia here and there. There is also the lovely If I Could, a more heartfelt piece. One of my favorite Pat albums, I'm a sucker for all these great melodies. There are tons of great melodies throughout this disc (except the first track, bleh.)
I love this album and I find Forward March hilariously funny.
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First Circle is a masterpiece.
the title track and Yolanda, You Learn are my favorites.
This may be my favorite drum performance ever, or at least sound. Paul Wertico's cymbal work is as precise as anything I've ever heard.
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I ended up liking that Pat Metheny Group album so much I picked up a copy on vinyl:
Sounds fantastic on record.
Awesome :tup
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Pat Metheny Group - The Falcon and The Snowman (1985)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/db/PMG_The_Falcon_and_the_Snowman_cover.jpg/220px-PMG_The_Falcon_and_the_Snowman_cover.jpg)
This is the Group's first album on a different record label, EMI, after leaving ECM records.. Also the Group's first concept album. I don't know much about the story here, as it is also the soundtrack for a movie I've never seen, but musically there are themes that appear and then reappear elsewhere on the album; and though it is a soundtrack, it is still a proper PMG album.
The lineup is essentially the same as First Circle, Metheny, Mays, Rodby, Wertico, Aznar, and the band is backed up by the National Philharmonic Orchestra, and the Ambrosian Choir, on some tracks. We also have David Bowie singing on the song "This Is Not America", a moderate hit at the time in the US but a big hit in the UK, something something about Margaret Thatcher I guess.
The music is a little darker than previous PMG albums, there are very little uplifting moments as we usually hear on pretty much all other PMG albums. The mood is a little more sad, introspective, and bleak. However, some tunes are still classic PMG like Daulton Lee, where we hear what sounds like Lyle Mays playing some real melodic lead lines, when in fact it is Pat with a very synthed-up guitar. For years I thought it was Lyle on that tune until I recently discovered it is actually Pat. We get a great vocal performance from Pedro on DL, as well as on the song The Falcon. The 2nd side features more of the darker, more dissonant tunes, as well as more ambient and acoustic guitar driven pieces. One thing to note is the lack of classic leads from Pat, in his clean tone, or even with the synclavier synth guitar. Also missing are many (not all) of the trademark Lyle Mays sounds from this era. This album is just the black sheep in the PMG discography from the 80s, as it's very different from the other albums. I've grown to like it over the years, but it is one I overlooked for a long time due to negative opinions on the album. Not one I pick up often, but when the mood is right, the albums works very well.
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I kinda remember the movie, but I've never seen it. I didn't realize that PMG did the soundtrack, and I've never heard it.
I guess that leaves me with nothing to contribute other than that for a while, I kept misspeaking the title of a recent Marvel TV show as "The Falcon and the Winter Snowman" and I could not figure why I had it stuck in my head that way.
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On the last track of this album and I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed the darker tone of the album as a whole personally. For me the weakest track was the Bowie track but is probably due to my dislike of David Bowie, I've never really been a fan of his. I will definitely agree with you that the album has a very bleak feeling to it, especially Level Of Deception. First run through I'd say Daulton Lee was my favorite track.
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Daulton Lee is my favorite track as well. I like some David Bowie songs but not a huge fan or anything, and I find This Is Not America just ok. I do like when Pat plays this song solo/instrumental, as the melody is nice. But yea, this album is a grower, and I like this album a lot now. Really shows the diversity of Metheny's discography, how much it keeps changing album to album, but this album really sticks out in the PMG canon, for its general moodiness.
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Sea of Tranquility did a segment on Elements, the band led by ex-PMG members Mark Egan and Danny Gottlieb, for those interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2Mbd372UUI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2Mbd372UUI)
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I love this album! It really flows perfectly, like a concept album. I think the sound design is great on this album (if that makes sense), the arrangements and production are perfect. And David Bowie... is just David Bowie. You wouldn't think the combination Metheny-Bowie (and Mays of course) works this well, but it does. I wish these masters would have made more music together.
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Lyle Mays - Lyle Mays (1986)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/58/Lyle_Mays_-_Lyle_Mays_%281986%29.jpg/220px-Lyle_Mays_-_Lyle_Mays_%281986%29.jpg)
Lyle Mays' debut solo album, released in 1986. Very much feels like a Pat Metheny Group album, both in sound and production. Lyle's keyboards are everywhere, and he is joined by Bill Frisell, Marc Johnson, Alex Acuna, Nano Vasconcelos, and Billy Drewes. This album shows the listener how much Lyle influences the sound of PMG, and also how much his sound and style is integral to the general PMG soundscape. As I've said earlier, they should really have been called the Lyle Mays Group, since he dominates the music throughout. But Pat is the natural leader and "captain" of the ship.
Back to the music, we hear very PGM-esque music, but with Frisell on guitar, and we also hear foreshadowing for what PMG were going to release in the years ahead (more world music inspired, and light psychedelic jazz fused music.) Some really fascinating music in the first 3 tracks. The album climaxes with the 14-minute long piece, The Alaskan Suite with many keyboard washes and Frisell's hovering guitar rings. Really, though, the entire 2nd side (tracks 4-8) can really be seen as one big piece, as it has a beginning a middle and an end, and the end is probably the best track on the album. A slow, heartfelt melody called Close To Home, which easily could have fit on any PMG album from the 80s. To me, this album is the best PMG-sounding album out there (and I believe Pat was the co-producer for this album as well as Lyle's follow up, another great album.)
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many years ago i checked out some Lyle Mays solo cds from the library, but I'm not sure if that album was in there. I remember enjoying them at the time, but sadly, never following up. I probably need to.
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many years ago i checked out some Lyle Mays solo cds from the library, but I'm sure if that album was in there. I remember enjoying them at the time, but sadly, never following up. I probably need to.
He only released 4 studio albums, and 1 live album, so not many, unfortunately. His solo albums are all on par with Pat's best stuff.
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Pat Metheny, Ornette Coleman - SONG X (1986)
with Charlie Haden, Jack DeJohnette, and Denardo Coleman
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/21/Songxmethenycoleman.jpg/220px-Songxmethenycoleman.jpg)
20th Anniversary cover
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6c/Song_X_20th_Anniversary_Edition.jpg/220px-Song_X_20th_Anniversary_Edition.jpg)
Not for the faint of heart. Most of the music here is not the usual Pat Metheny fare, though, even with the post-bopish nature of the music, it is freer, dissonant, and more wacky than what we've heard from Pat so far, and that is in part to this album sharing co-billing with Ornette Coleman, Jazz legend and Free-Jazz innovator. The 20th Anniversary version is the one I have, which includes 6 bonus tracks in the beginning of the album before going right into the original album.
The first and third tracks are actually classic Metheny tracks to my ears. Police People and The Good Life, which became staples of Pat's live repertoire outside of the Group tours, feature great melodies, almost Caribbean sounding. Outside of those two tracks, the album is as I described earlier: hurried, busy, almost neurotic sounding. I can't comment on any other individual tracks, on the occasional times I listen to this in full it all sounds like one big ball of controlled chaos, so approach with caution. This is a tough album to listen to with any regularity, even for a big jazz fan like myself.
If you are familiar with some of John Zorn's music, Mr. Bungle, or Naked City, that might give you an idea of much of the music.
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I checked out Song X out about 20 years ago when I 1st got into Pat Metheny and to say I hated it would be putting it mildly.
It's hardly the only record he's done that i have dismissed (One Quiet Night), but it definitely stands out in some ways like a grey herring among all of the PM/PMG records I've heard per it's so different and anti-music. Which I came to just have an aversion to Free Jazz in general after hearing it and things like Sun Ra and Henry Cow.
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I totally appreciate music like that, but I have to be in the rare mood.
Guys like Ornette Coleman and Sun Ra, do have lots of music that is more "accessible" and bopish.
By the way, Song X is going to sound like bubble gum pop music once you hear Zero Tolerance For Silence.
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I tried listening to Off-Ramp but I struggle to get hooked in after the first few tracks. Maybe too laid back for me and I'm not a big fan of the textures of the keyboard sounds I was hearing.
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I tried listening to Off-Ramp but I struggle to get hooked in after the first few tracks. Maybe too laid back for me and I'm not a big fan of the textures of the keyboard sounds I was hearing.
It is a bit more of a laid back album, mostly. It's a late evening album for me, before it starts getting dark. Kind of a cleansing listen after listening to all kinds of other crazy music during the day. My experience is Pat's music is best experienced when mood and setting are just right.
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Pat Metheny Group - Still Life (Talking) (1987)
(https://img.discogs.com/TndSR6fF5lBrJu76nYLcXxa9Sl8=/fit-in/600x591/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2173737-1452442791-9565.jpeg.jpg)
Pat Metheny Group's most accessible album, and Pat and the Group's most popular album, as it's their only Gold record by the RIAA. This is one of, it not my favorite Pat or PMG album out of his entire catalog. There is a reason it's so popular. The music here is full of energy, jazzy yet poppy, complex enough for serious listeners and catchy enough for casual listeners who may or may not listen to jazz-related music. It is joyous, uplifting music.
To call this album "fusion" is both an accurate description and an inaccurate description. It's not 70s styled fusion, nor is it what much of the jazz-fusion of the 80s sounded like. It is a fusion of mid-Western Jazz, Brazilian music, folk, and pop, with a post-bop attitude, but played with a rock energy. The production is very good as well, everything can be heard very clearly, and sounds great on good speakers. This album is the result of Pat's desire to leave ECM so he could use the studio as a musical instrument and really craft a 'perfect' sounding album. The band includes three singers who are heard singing wordless vocals often throughout the music.
Every track is a PMG classic, and were all live staples, except maybe the last piece.
Minuano (Six Eight) opens the album, slowly allowing the listener to warm up to the music before exploding into the main groove and theme. It is a glorious piece, and one of those tunes that just defines the sound of the band during this era, and is such a great melody.
So May It Secretly Begin is a wonderful bossa-nova inspired groove and an ear-worm of a melody.
Last Train Home is the closest thing the band ever came to a hit single, as it was often played on The Weather Channel's Local on the 8's in the 80s and 90s, as well as being in some commercials. This is probably their most well known piece. It is a melancholic tune, and the music evokes images of trains and perhaps longing for someone.
(It's Just) Talk brings us back to the Latin grooves and great melodies. A more underrated gem in the PMG catalog, if only because it's surrounded by greater pieces.
Third Wind is possibly the most energetic PMG tune and is very fast paced. Everyone is just blazing through the piece, including Pat who plays with a late-era Coltrane ferociousness but the music is quite upbeat, accessible, and very percussive.
This would have concluded the album just fine for me, but the album concludes with two pieces, which really feel like one longer piece.
Distance is a short, haunting, and psychedelic, lead up to the next track, and a contrast to the 36 minutes of music that preceded it.
In Her Family is a sad, introspective sounding tune, and kind of ends the album with a whimper, possibly the only negative thing I could say about this album, but the piece is beautiful so it is a nice coda to this album.
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Don't give up on me now, guys. This discography is just getting warmed up.
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I'm going to be doing some catching up this week, I was pretty busy last week so there wasn't much listening time. Haven't given up yet!
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I still following! I just don't have the familiarity with the material to comment more than "I like it". I think Metheny is awesome, as
is was (:() Lyle Mays, but other than thinking it all sounds great, I'm not sure what else I can say.
I'll try to give it a more in-depth listen later today.
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Lyle Mays - Street Dreams (1988)
(https://img.discogs.com/2NqRQvaOL-zcWL45lFY_lnV0yAM=/fit-in/354x350/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1079726-1190539788.jpeg.jpg)
Lyle Mays' second album is in line with the PMG sound of the era, late 80s. That dreamy, mildly psychedelic sound that sounds like a marriage of Bill Evans and the Grateful Dead but with folk influence from areas like Brazil, the Caribbean; Pat and Lyle's music have this Latin Jazz overtone to their music in the mid-late 80s. The main band here is Peter Erskine on drums, Marc Johnson on bass, Bill Frisell on guitar and a few others on various instruments on certain tracks, including PMG bassist Steve Rodby playing bass on the opening track, and Rodby also produced this album. Overall a nice collection of tunes, Lyle's first album is probably better, but the final epic title suite that takes up the last few tracks is far and away the best composition between his first two albums. It's progressive, upbeat, and is drenched in those electric pianos and synths that Lyle played a lot of during this time period, that is just one of my musical guilty pleasures. A must listen if you enjoy Pat Metheny Group albums from this era. Pat himself even wrote one of the tunes on this album ("Possible Straight")
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I still following! I just don't have the familiarity with the material to comment more than "I like it". I think Metheny is awesome, as is was (:() Lyle Mays, but other than thinking it all sounds great, I'm not sure what else I can say.
I'll try to give it a more in-depth listen later today.
Don't give up on me now, guys. This discography is just getting warmed up.
I'm still following too, don't worry! I'm just in the exam period of the year, so I can't write a lot, but I still read your posts and often relisten to the albums. Yesterday, I put on Still Life (Talking) while making dinner :tup
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I'm listening to Still Life (Talking) now, and I can't say I'm a fan of the scat vocals. I have to be in the right mood for vocals. I typically put on jazz when I want jams, instrumental jams, and the vocals take me out of that somehow.
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I'm listening to Still Life (Talking) now, and I can't say I'm a fan of the scat vocals. I have to be in the right mood for vocals. I typically put on jazz when I want jams, instrumental jams, and the vocals take me out of that somehow.
The vocals on SL(T) are not scat vocals in the traditional jazz sense, the wordless, vocals are used more as another instrument that is blended in with the other instruments to create the big sound on the album. This is contrast to music from, say, Sarah Vaughn or Ella Fitzgerald, where there are lyrics and/or nonsensical singing wordless vocals, they take solos with their voice, and are the focal point of their music most of the time. The vocals on PMG albums are used to accentuate certain parts or sections. It's still technically all instrumental music, as there are no lyrics, the vocals are melodic and wordless, and the vocals do not take center stage in the music, instead blend in with the rest of the band. There are a couple of exceptions throughout their discography, where there are actual lyrics sung by one of the singers, but that is the exception, and not something to be found on Still Life (Talking)
I'm with you, though, that I usually don't care for vocals in jazz. However, PMG is a whole nother experience. PMG are more like a rock band that is extremely rooted in jazz, so the vocals don't bother me. Some say Pat's music is better without them, but they are used sparingly for the most part, and are done tastefully as well, so for me they work really well on the albums where they are featured the most, such as this album or the follow up. That is that Brazilian influence, why there are vocals since PMG's 3rd album.
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What are everyone's thoughts on the Lyle Mays album Street Dreams, or his first album?
This era of Pat and Lyle's music gets wrongly classified as 'smooth jazz' by critics, but this music is just well recorded and the tones throughout are often in the mid-range, giving it that 'smooth' sound on the surface, but this music is way more complex, deep, and artistic than actual 'smooth jazz' or softer jazz or slick r&B music of this era. The term is silly anyway, it's a fake corporate term like "world music" that automatically turns off potential listeners.
These days, anything that has a hint of jazz in its sound is classified as 'smooth jazz' due to ignorance. I've heard of Opeth described as "smooth jazz" more than once. That's when you know the label has no meaning anymore, everything jazz is 'smooth jazz' now.
I've never really liked music that could be classified as 'smooth jazz' aside from a few songs, but I've always been intrigued by Pat Metheny's music since I first heard his music many years ago. This era of Pat and Lyle's music is very happy and chill, with a hint of sadness or melancholy, what with the Latin Jazz sound they had going during this time, but staying true to their roots as well.
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I listened to SL(T) yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm actually very familiar with Minuano because my first exposure to Pat was this youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvaVQZP6A_M and at the time I went through and listened to the songs in the opening title card which is where I came across Minuano. I was a little surprised that they weren't as acoustic as the medley :lol
Aside from one album coming up later in this thread SL(T) was the album that clicked the quickest with me. It seemed fairly easy to digest (maybe it's just because I'm listening to more Pat) and had some real highlights to me, mainly "So May It Secretly Begin" and "In Her Family" but every track, except maybe Third Wind, was immediately enjoyable.
This album also has a great sound to it, to my ear it has more warmth than some of the previous work.
I haven't checked out the Lyle Mays album but I will this afternoon and report back. I also have Song X to check out as well.
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I listened to SL(T) yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm actually very familiar with Minuano because my first exposure to Pat was this youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvaVQZP6A_M and at the time I went through and listened to the songs in the opening title card which is where I came across Minuano. I was a little surprised that they weren't as acoustic as the medley :lol
Aside from one album coming up later in this thread SL(T) was the album that clicked the quickest with me. It seemed fairly easy to digest (maybe it's just because I'm listening to more Pat) and had some real highlights to me, mainly "So May It Secretly Begin" and "In Her Family" but every track, except maybe Third Wind, was immediately enjoyable.
This album also has a great sound to it, to my ear it has more warmth than some of the previous work.
I haven't checked out the Lyle Mays album but I will this afternoon and report back. I also have Song X to check out as well.
As mentioned before, Pat wanted to leave ECM label so he could record his albums the way he wanted to. The production values for ECM are great, their sound is unmistakable for what it is, but their process is record for a couple of days, mix for one day, and that's the album. It gives the music a lot of space, it's an excellent way to record the oft improvisational-based music that ECM offers, but also doesn't allow for the musicians to "fix up" any mistakes or perfect a line or whatever, which is part of the ECM charm, I guess. Pat's music tends to be more composed, with room for improv, as opposed to many acts on ECM where the music is more loosely composed and improv is the main focus. Pat wanted to spend more time in the studio than 2-3 days, thus, every album after leaving ECM sounds absolutely brilliant and mixed so nicely (eventually, PMG bassist Steve Rodby would start co-producing ALL of Pat's albums going forward, even the non-PMG albums, as well as Lyle's solo albums, as Steve is also a great producer and conductor.)
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Pedro Aznar - Contemplación (1985)
(https://cdns-images.dzcdn.net/images/cover/cdf876ec2f5e3d41ca252c0c0ca56988/264x264.jpg)
I forgot to include this album in this thread, so we're going backwards real quick, then we'll get back to our regularly scheduled programming.
This is Pedro Aznar's second solo album, released while he was still in Pat Metheny Group, before he left for a short time in the mid-80s. This album is featured here because Pat, Lyle, as well as former PMG drummer Danny Gottlieb are on this album, so this is a quasi-PMG album, almost a "what would PMG sound like if Pedro Aznar was in charge?" They're not on every track, but they're on almost half the album, as it's not a very long album, and one of the tracks they're on is something like 11 minutes long. Pedro was a full time PMG member at the time, so the whole album has that First Circle vibe, which was the most recent recording at the time of this album's release.
The results are a very PMG-sounding album (duh) from the era. It's a very 80s-sounding album, bear in mind. Besides singing, he also plays percussion and bass throughout the album, as well as using a lot of the same instrumentation and keyboard equipment that Lyle Mays uses in PMG. The best tracks are the ones with Pat, Lyle, and Danny, particularly the track "23" with Pedro on bass, so technically a lost PMG lineup (Danny left PMG before Aznar joined, but Steve Rodby plays bass in PMG, so it is interesting to hear Pedro on bass here, as he is quite a virtuoso bassist, he's more similar in style to Jaco Pastorius or former PMG bassist Mark Egan.) Pat himself is on a few other tracks, and lays down some nice solos, but the track '23' has one of Lyle's best piano work.
If you're someone who can't get enough Pat or Pat Metheny Group, or even more Lyle (since his canon is quite limited) this is a worthy addition to your collection.
Just a reminder: All the albums in this thread so far, are available to stream if you don't have the album(s) yourself.
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Pat Metheny Group - Letter From Home (1989)
(https://img.discogs.com/LUjMNkXL6P-ZYVz9BKFN3NaNnoE=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-224696-1261332175.jpeg.jpg)
The follow up to Still Life (Talking), this album really is a continuation of the music on that album. There is more Brazilian influence, bossa nova, and Latin Jazz mixed with the PMG style. Pedro Aznar rejoined the band after being absent on the last album, and the percussionist from the last album, Armando Marçal, returns here as well. We are joined again by the classic quartet of Metheny, Mays, Rodby, and Wertico.
While I feel that SL(T) does what Letter From Home does in much less time, I still feel like this is one of the Group's strongest albums, and if you like the previous album, you'll also enjoy LFH. The compositions are very relaxed, and mildly psychedelic, but once again, there are so many strong melodies throughout, and these are some of the band's most well known compositions. The whole album is just a summer-y sounding album. Some may find the music too 'light' but I think it is produced very well, and the mood of the music is very chill. A great album at the beach, or a late evening gathering.
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^need to listen to that album for the lineup alone.
by the way, I read that Metheny had contacted Rick Laird about wanting to collaborate with him for a Wes Montgomery tribute (Laird played with Wes Montgomery). It never happened of course and Laird was retired as a musician for decades, working as a Photographer, before passing away a few days ago.
I would still be curious about what Metheny may do with it.
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Just spun Letter From Home and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm on my second listen through and the album works both as something you can have on in the background or you can really sit down and listen to it. Highlights for me were Have you Heard, Every Summer Night, Spring Ain't Here and Beat 70. There is also a tone here that first caught my ear on 5-5-7 that sounded like that Chilean Pipe effect that Al Di Meola used, I think that was my only gripe with it because I really hated that effect :lol
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Are you referring to the intro track to 5-5-7, "45/8"?
BTW, you basically listed all the best tracks on the album (although I think every track on the album is strong, including Dream of the Return (a nice cool down song), Are We There Yet, and Slip Away.)
Letter From Home pairs well with Still Life (Talking). For a while I would listen to SL(T) then follow it up with LFH. Two parts of a whole in a lot of ways.
I had not heard about that potential collaboration with Laird. RIP. He was kind of the forgotten member of the early Mahavishnu Orchestra lineup (no surprise everyone in that band was a legendary musician, even in later lineups)
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Yup, sorry I meant the intro track. I forgot to mention but Vidala was also a pretty solid track too.
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It's cool how there's trippy callbacks to a couple of earlier songs from the album on that one.
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Gary Burton - Reunion (1990)
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a1/8c/de/a18cde70aac3e219c18764df657e1de8.jpg)
Recorded in 1989 and released in the beginning of the 90s, this Gary Burton album sees the Reunion of Burton with ex-sideman, Pat Metheny. Though technically a sideman again for Gary's band on this album, contrary to the three albums with Burton in the 70s, Pat sounds more like co-leader alongside his former mentor. If you never saw the album cover and someone told you this was a Pat Metheny album during your first listen, you'd believe them. Pat is all over this album, playing lead melodies, his late 80s clean guitar tone is front and center, along with his synth guitar. Musically, while Burton's 70s albums with Pat were a bit deeper, introspective, and pastoral; this album is more in line with Pat's albums from the same era that Reunion was released in: highly produced, energetic music, with lots of Latin and Brazilian influences felt, tropical sounding melodies, and even some slap bass mixed in from bassist Will Lee. The rest of the lineup consists of Mitchel Forman on keys and piano, and Peter Erskine on drums. A nice slice of late-80s jazz-fusion without getting too slick.
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I have this one, and I like it a lot. I love vibes, and Gary Burton is one of the few vibes players that I actually know of (the other of course is Lionel Hampton), so hearing Gary and Pat together again is great. For a long time, I didn't realize that Pat got his start with Gary Burton, so the title "Reunion" was lost on me. But now I understand. Great jams.
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I have this one, and I like it a lot. I love vibes, and Gary Burton is one of the few vibes players that I actually know of (the other of course is Lionel Hampton), so hearing Gary and Pat together again is great. For a long time, I didn't realize that Pat got his start with Gary Burton, so the title "Reunion" was lost on me. But now I understand. Great jams.
If you like vibes, check out Dave Samuels. His own albums are very tropical sounding, like this album, along with his Caribbean Jazz Project albums.
He's also on most of Spyro Gyra's albums, and is also on Frank Zappa's live album, Zappa In New York.
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Thanks for the tip!
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Moving on.
Pat Metheny - Question and Answer (1990)
with Dave Holland, and Roy Haynes
(https://img.discogs.com/WnqqfzDKf86OGhH_LCHQ5XhHyiM=/fit-in/600x593/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1586949-1581188463-7486.jpeg.jpg)
This is my favorite Pat Metheny 'straight' jazz album, and also one of my favorite Pat albums, period. Recorded on December 21, 1989, right at the tail end of the 80s, this album sounds like it was recorded yesterday. If you didn't like the more atonal or experimental jazz Pat has done on some tracks up until this point, you may prefer this album. If you prefer Pat without all the synths and effects, this may be the album for you. Pat is stripped down to just his clean electric guitar (except on one track) There are no 80s drum pads, Roy Haynes plays acoustic drums, and Dave Holland, as usual, plays acoustic upright double bass. Pat has released trio recordings before and since, more acoustic jazz stuff as well, but on this album I feel like it's the perfect blend of his 80s sensibilities of the time, it still feels electric, bright, and almost fusion-y, but it's clearly post-bop jazz, however with a bit of a spring in its step, no doubt due to the high caliber rhythm section of Holland and Haynes. Each track is a joy to listen to, Pat's tone is warm, vibrant, Holland's tone is chill, yet always doing something interesting, and Haynes is a legendary world class drummer, and has such a pop in his snare and is a master with the cymbals.
The music consists of a mix of Pat originals, and a few covers. In jazz, unlike in rock or classical, covers can be straight covers, but more often they tend to be more loose interpretations of the original, with perhaps only the melody being the only thing recognizable, if that.
I really like the opening Miles Davis tune, Solar. The title track is a Pat live staple and possibly a jazz standard at this point. The next couple tracks are other Metheny orginals, all good tunes. Law Years is an Ornette Coleman tune, and very frenetic at times without going over the deep end. The second side consists of the prettiest tune here, Change of Heart, their covers of All The Things You Are and Old Folks is solid. The final track, my favorite, Three Flights Up, is a great song. This tune is more like a Pat Metheny Group sounding tune, and Pat brings in the synths and synclavier but Roy and Dave are as fired up as they've ever been. The tempo for this one has to be really high.
All in all, an enjoyable listen to three jazz legends. Dave Holland in particular, is one of my favorite jazz artists of all time. He's been on so many great albums.
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I like this one a lot, too. There's something "pure" about a jazz trio, just a guitar (or piano) with bass and drums. Everybody has lot of space, lot of freedom.
Pat Metheny Group tends to have a bigger, fuller sound, largely because of Lyle Mays on keys. Here Pat is much more exposed, and you get to hear how he fills his space. I think it helps that the overall feel is much more chill, but they do get cooking a few times.
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NEW MUSIC coming from Pat, this September.
https://twitter.com/PatMetheny/status/1414987159958958082 (https://twitter.com/PatMetheny/status/1414987159958958082)
Pat Metheny
@PatMetheny
Pat Metheny Announces Side-Eye NYC (V1.IV)
Due Out September 10th
An Exciting New Release Featuring The 20-Time Grammy Winner With New Young Stars. Extensive World Tour Dates Unveiled.
Pre-Order Now: https://stores.portmerch.com/patmetheny/pre-order-side-eye-nyc-v1-iv.html (https://stores.portmerch.com/patmetheny/pre-order-side-eye-nyc-v1-iv.html)
Jack DeJohnette - Parallel Realities (1990)
with Pat Metheny and Herbie Hancock
(https://img.discogs.com/ELXv19BKxWDbThf3IxYVdE7L28Q=/fit-in/600x601/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-772745-1546400292-3738.jpeg.jpg)
Despite being a Jack DeJohnette album, this album is really a Pat Metheny album in disguise. This isn't post-bop either, Pat is in PMG-mode on this one, all his effects are on here, and even Jack on the drums is messing with different things, like playing keyboard bass while also playing drums, and the drums sound like they've got some pads on there. Pat also wrote more than half the music for this album (the rest written by DeJohnette) so at the very least it is a Pat and Jack collaboration...
but then we have Herbie Hancock on keys and piano to round things out, so what a line up this is. While he didn't write any of the music, his presence is also felt greatly on this album and provides great textures along with signature piano solos. I really like hearing Pat with a pianist the most, I feel like the matchup just works every time, whether backed by (especially) Lyle Mays, Herbie Hancock, Brad Mehldau, or any of the young talent he's been working with in recent years. He always has great chemistry with keyboardists and pianists.
The music fits right in with other albums by Pat and friends of the same era, though each one has their own identity, this one is a little more abstract at times, while incorporating Brazilian and Caribbean sounds, making for some ethereal aural passages. Pat's guitar dominates the proceedings, taking lead often, providing each tune's main themes and melodies. Considering some of this music was written by the drummer, it doesn't sound like it. Jack DeJohnette does play piano, and has released albums of his piano playing, so this isn't too surprising, and Jack is a very 'musical' drummer, he tunes his toms to specific pitches.
A sometimes forgotten album in the canon of Pat Metheny, but a highlight of Jack DeJohnette's huge discography.
There was a live video put out called "Parallel Realities Live" released in 1991, I think, and featured Dave Holland on bass, and if you can track it down, you should, it's sometimes an even better performance than the studio album, features new compositions and few old songs by Jack, Pat, and Herbie as well.
(https://img.discogs.com/EzNUKdUtoxU-0ijgJznzW-1aj_g=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8511583-1463088783-5224.jpeg.jpg)
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Cool that this is still going. I actually went through a pretty heavy Pat Metheny phase last year while in Jazz college. Went through pretty much every album I could find that he was involved in. I couldn’t get into the DeJohnette album. To me it sounded like a typical Jazz album with a drummer as the leader where the compositions aren’t quite there and I just can’t do the 90s reverb and electronic sounds. I hear the PMG connection and I love that stuff, but for some reason it sounds really cheesy and dated here which is something that PMG always avoided IMO.
Going back though, Question & Answer is awesome! By far one of my favorite Pat albums. He was in true renaissance mode at that time, showing off his more bebop oriented Jazz chops in a way that he wasn’t really doing in the 70s and 80s. Pat is one of the few musicians who actually thrived in the late 80s and into the 90s while a lot of Jazz musicians really struggled. He positioned himself really well as not just a Jazz great from the fusion era, but someone who fit right in with some of the new up and comers in the next couple decades like Melhdau, Joshua Redman, and Chris Potter. I get the impression that he’s actually trying to do a similar thing now working with sidemen who are much younger and have less exposure.
I love the trio sound, the mix of standards and original tunes, and it has some of the best playing chemistry of any Pat album. Really nice warm production too that, in stark contrast to the DeJohnette album, doesn’t date itself. The song Question and Answer is an all time Pat Metheny favorite (it also has a nice little nod to Coltrane’s Giant Steps matrix in the bridge).
I should probably clarify that I actually really like Jack DeJohnette’s playing. He is an explosive drummer. He did some amazing work with Miles and even Pat on 80/81. He’s also done some really good work recently, including an album with John Scofield, John Medeski, and Larry Grenadier called Hudson which I think a lot of folks here would enjoy.
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I get not liking the late 80s/early 90s aesthetic found on Parallel Realities, but for me that adds to the charm, especially with how different it is compared to other Jack DeJohnette albums. However, there are better DeJohnette performances out there, like any ECM album he's appeared on, any of the Keith Jarrett Trio albums with Gary Peacock, and of course his work with Miles Davis, John Abercrombie, and Charles Lloyd, among others, but Jack has released worse albums than this.
Mosh, have you heard or watched Parallel Realities Live? It mostly drops all the things you don't like about the studio album, with an actual bassist (Holland) as part of the performances. Pat still has all his effects but overall it feels more like an organic jazz album.
Another album from this time period, Live Montreal '89, this is a radio broadcast release that came out recently, but might already be out of print. I don't think it's an official Pat Metheny album either, but I scooped it up the moment I saw it, the sound quality is mostly excellent throughout. More in line with the Question and Answer, and Rejoicing albums. This has some fire performances from Jack.
(https://img.discogs.com/f5tlbkr2ZmIgBmr3v6DKdX18bKE=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8795118-1468923721-9422.jpeg.jpg)
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I just got done listening to Questions and Answer and it's probably my new favorite Pat album (aside from one we'll get to later). This album is the most consistent to me. Previous albums usually have some tracks I love, some I like, and some I really don't care for where with Q&A I enjoy it all the way through. There are a few stand out's to me, namely the title track, "Change Of Heart" and "Three Flights Up". All around great album. I love the sound of this trio personally.
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I just got done listening to Questions and Answer and it's probably my new favorite Pat album (aside from one we'll get to later). This album is the most consistent to me. Previous albums usually have some tracks I love, some I like, and some I really don't care for where with Q&A I enjoy it all the way through. There are a few stand out's to me, namely the title track, "Change Of Heart" and "Three Flights Up". All around great album. I love the sound of this trio personally.
There's definitely no curve ball tracks on that album, like on Offramp, or Rejoicing, for example. The sound is fantastic, the playing is top notch. One of the best sounding jazz albums IMO, and one of my favorite jazz albums ever, not just by Pat.
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Pat Metheny - Secret Story (1992)
(https://img.discogs.com/doynYgwdtHa30dgBvNWHForGMa0=/fit-in/600x601/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-14033563-1566495721-5223.jpeg.jpg)
Secret Story marks both the end of an era for Pat, and the beginning of a new era.
This is the final album of a stretch that began in 1980, with the Witchita Falls album with Lyle Mays, and the exclamation point of the late 80s/early 90s-era Pat Metheny Group, even if this isn't a PMG album proper. Every then-current and almost every former PMG member is on this album, along with a few other musicians, some of which Pat had worked with prior. There are some call backs to then-recent PMG albums, even the cover art is similar to the last bunch of Pat albums. This is also the end of the South American influenced era as well, while there's a little of it here, this album sees Pat revisiting some of that pastoral mid-Western sound he championed in the 70s, mixed with all these other exotic sounds previously unheard on a Pat album. The Brazilian/Caribbean stuff would appear very little after this album.
This is also the beginning of Pat's music becoming more progressive, more expansive, creating a really BIG sound. This album in particular achieves that in spades. For one, Pat's clean guitar tone is updated, to the sound he still currently uses to this day (except for most of his albums released in the 2010s, which his clean tone sounds more hollow) It is a fuller sound, very warm, much more mid-range than previous tones. While Pat's music has always been forward thinking, the music here is much more challenging than most of what came before. This is also helped by the use of the London Symphony Orchestra featured on most of the album, as well as a variety of different sounds and instruments throughout. The production is also leaps ahead of the late 80s production previous albums had, though some of the drums here still have that early 90s sound.
The music itself is more dense, complex, but not for the sake of it... While the music is generally more progressive, it is also the most melodic, heartfelt, and sincere, than any Pat album before or since. It also seems to be a summation of everything up til that point, while also looking ahead to what may/will come next. The overall mood is very captivating, each track has its own identity. The melodies are heart-wrenching.
Finding and Believing may be the most 'prog' tune here, very enjoyable piece. So many intricate things going on. Some of the music here gets pretty dark, something rarely heard on a Pat or PMG album. Rain River is more mysterious sounding. The orchestra's playing is sublime, and gives me chills whenever I listen to this album. A few tunes like Facing West and See The World are reminiscent of PMG, but they are the exceptions here. Tunes like Always And Forever has some of Pat's best acoustic guitar playing, foreshadowing some of the solo acoustic stuff he'd release later. Some of the other tunes are pretty, if not straight up orchestral, and some feel like transitional pieces, meant to prepare the listener for what is coming up next. Pat's playing is phenomenal, it's like he was trying to prove how much better he could play even after all the music he'd released up til this point.
The last four songs on the album, however, may be the saddest music Pat ever conceived. This final stretch of the album never fails to give me a lump in my throat and make my eyes well up. I don't think I can hold back tears by the time we get to Tell Her You Saw Me, if not sooner. This album leaves a huge emotional impact on me every time I listen to the whole thing, especially these final four tunes. The Truth Will Always Be is literally the climax of the entire album. This is one reason I think this is Pat's best album, because the album leads up to these final four songs, as there is a darker/sadder vibe throughout the album, and the last four tunes give the biggest hints to what the album is about. Whatever it is, it is a sad ending, as the final track Not To Be Forgotten (Our Final Hour) is a real sad tune. There is pretty much no other album or song I can think of that consistently makes me cry each and every time I listen to it, which makes it difficult to put on more casually like I do with other albums by Pat, Lyle, PMG, etc...
You may be wondering, "so what's the secret story on Secret Story?" I'm not sure, but it seems like it's something personal to Pat, but maybe something directed as people in general. As mentioned before, the song titles, I think, give us some hints, but the cover art also possibly gives us some hints, many of them in fact. Either way, the music is instrumental, and the beauty of that is you can make it whatever you want it to be.
P.S. - If you didn't know, the album was re-released in 2007, with a remastered sound (aka LOUDER) and I think the original recording is superior. The remastered version does come with a bonus disc, featuring 5 unreleased tunes. 3 of them definitely come off as filler tracks, but the first and last track on the bonus disc are good Pat tunes, and the last track, while still sad sounding, is more upbeat in a way, and could have been the actual last track on the album, which would have ended the album on a more positive note. I generally listen to the bonus disc after because I like it ending that way, plus more music, but as is without the bonus disc, the album is just about perfect.
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Bueller? Bueller?? This is one of Pat's best albums.
(https://slm-assets.secondlife.com/assets/10847659/view_large/bueller.jpg?1419969945)
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Awesome, detailed write-up. Again this is an album I've never heard before but I'll take a listen tomorrow morning. I'm interested to hear what the end of an era sounds like and what the start of a new era is like with the next album.
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Just got done with Secret Story. This album was a real journey. I listened to the album on Spotify which was the remaster as it had the additional 5 tracks at the end. The orchestration and production on this album were the first things to really stand out to me. It sounds rich, full, and all around incredible. I'll have to check out the original release to compare how it sounds.
The highlight was definitely the final handful of songs on the album. Tell Her You Saw Me might be in the top 5 Pat songs for me so far. I think the additional tracks were also a real treat. To me they didn't really feel tacked on like other artists will do bonus tracks, I just wish I knew how they would've been added to the album track listing. Back in Time was the highlight from the additional tracks.
I think my only real negative on this album was that Chilean pipe sound I complained about a few albums ago, never really dug the tone of whatever patch that seems to be just really kills the vibe for me. I'm eager to see what the albums sound like moving forward.
Also I really enjoy following along to this thread so thank you for putting the time into it darkshade! I enjoy going through artist discographies but it's an added bonus when you have someone familiar walking you through.
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Glad you enjoyed it for the most part. Yes, some of his best work is on this album. That Chilean pipe sound doesn't appear much after this album.
Not sure where the bonus tracks would fit on the main album, but the last song definitely feels like the true final track. Back In Time sounds like it would be after the first few songs, and the middle tunes would also fit before the last 4 songs on the album proper.
Thanks for following along.
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Pat Metheny Group - The Road To You (1993)
(https://e.snmc.io/i/600/s/a6decdbe61571eb0e7845341d5915411/7832564)
Recorded in 1991 during the Letter From Home tour, with some overdubs (I assume there's overdubs, based on some bootlegs I've listened to, so not 100% confirmed, but the overdubs are very minimal, what you hear is essentially what they played live) and mixing done in 1993, this is, in my opinion, one of the Group's finest recordings. The production is top notch, easily one of the best sounding live albums I've ever heard from any band or artist. It could have been recorded yesterday. The playing is also top notch, some of Pat's best solos here, Lyle is in top shape, and everyone else sounds really good as well.
This is one of the earliest Pat Metheny albums I checked out, and I've always been a fan of this album from the moment the band kicks in on the opening track Have You Heard, from Letter From Home, which is even more exhilarating that the studio version. Pedro Aznar provides great singing on this rendition of First Circle, which I find is superior to the studio version as well. Lyle plays possibly his best piano solo on this track. Great, great stuff. From there we get to the album's first 'new' song, the title track. Mostly a guitar led piece, Pat is backed up by the rest of the band, their playing is very subtle here.
The next track is also an unreleased piece, the 15+ minute Half Life Of Absolution. This is a prog-jazz monster piece, with a haunting bassline, screaming melodies, and some of the best playing by the Group, they even get a little heavy, and Pat is wailing on the distorted guitar at times. We then get a couple more tracks from Letter From Home, neither are better or worse than their studio counterparts. Next is another unreleased piece Naked Moon. This tune dates back to the early 80s PMG tours, but never got released until this album. A nice jazz-ballad of sorts, with classic Metheny melodies.
We then get another duo of tracks from Letter From Home, which are, again, no better than the studio counterparts, but sound really good in this setting. We then get to Third Wind from Still Life (Talking). While I think the studio version is amazing, this live versions is even more energetic. The percussion is pounding, and Pat's playing like he's got fire in his belly. A good way to close out the live portion of the album. Yes, live portion, as the album closes with a studio cut called Solo from More Travels, a solo guitar piece that is featured on the live video "More Travels" which came out around the same time as this album. A nice, somewhat somber piece.
As I said, this is one of the band's best albums IMO, and one of my all time favorites. This would be the only other live album from PMG, aside from 1983's Travels. They did release a bunch of live videos and DVDs over the years, just with no audio-only release alongside. This is unfortunate, because a band like this, you want to explore more live stuff, since they improvise and also mix up the song arrangements at times. I don't always want to sit and watch, but I can always listen.
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Wonderful Live Record. Half Life Absolution :tup
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Going to pick up the pace a little.
John Scofield & Pat Metheny - I Can See Your House From Here (1994)
(https://www.baladessonores.com/app/uploads/2020/12/john-scofield-pat-metheny-i-can-see-your-house-from-here.jpg)
More of a John Scofield album than a Pat Metheny album, while the two do share co-billing, with Pat writing half the tunes here, and both guitarists have equal time for solos and shared leads, this is basically Scofield's band, featuring Pat. This also sounds more like Scofield's albums from the same period. The music here is mostly relaxed contemporary post-bop, with a funky edge, which basically describes much of Scofield's music from this era. Pat is teamed up with ex-Gary Burton band mate, bassist Steve Swallow, as well as drummer Bill Stewart, who would go on to play on many Scofield albums. Pat brings his Synclavier synth guitar and other effects, as well as his new updated clean playing, and compliments Sco's bluesier, more rough-around-the-edges sound and style of playing.
My favorite tunes here are The Red One, Message To My Friend, No Way Jose, and S.C.O. Everything else is solid but those are the strongest cuts for me. The pairing of arguably two of the most popular jazz/fusion guitarists of the 80s and 90s is is definitely something that sounds great on paper. Although I am a big Scofield fan, this is not among my favorite albums of his. Same with Metheny. While this is a good jazz album, and everyone plays great, I just find both guitarists put out much better stuff than this, overall. I feel like the results could have been better, one of those things where your expectations before first hearing an album were not met; and though I warmed up to the album over time, that 'sting' never leaves. Having later heard a live bootleg from these guys from '94, the band sounds livelier than in the studio. I would have loved to hear Pat on, say, Sco's "Überjam" album, as I feel that would have been a great context for him to play in. However, this is the only official album the two have ever released.
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sadly, another album I've never heard.
I know John Scofield, saw him with Karl Denson? I recall once, and I recall also seeing Dean Magraw and Jim Anton open for him in Minneapolis in 2002. I know this especially given that was the 1st time I ever saw or heard Dean.
But I have somewhere the Uberjam album I recall, but haven't listened to it in ages.
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sadly, another album I've never heard.
I know John Scofield, saw him with Karl Denson? I recall once, and I recall also seeing Dean Magraw and Jim Anton open for him in Minneapolis in 2002. I know this especially given that was the 1st time I ever saw or heard Dean.
But I have somewhere the Uberjam album I recall, but haven't listened to it in ages.
I like Überjam quite a bit, but my alltime favourite Scofield album is Still Warm. Very well worth listening to.
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Scofield did some fire fusion in the 80s, Still Warm is one of them, Loud Jazz is another favorite.
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Nando Lauria - Points of View (1994)
(https://img.discogs.com/l1Mu4M6FHnfA1XIXbbkj4DL1VRM=/fit-in/450x450/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-3423240-1329827311.jpeg.jpg)
Nando Lauria is a Brazilian guitarist who hooked up with the Pat Metheny Group and played live with them for a bunch of concerts in the late 80s. He eventually released his first solo album Points of View, which features Lyle Mays and former PMG drummer Danny Gottlieb on drums and percussion. The music here is very, very reminiscent of Pat Metheny Group's late 80s albums. Lots of Brazilian folk, upbeat styled music. Great rhythmic guitar throughout. This is a great album if you really enjoy Still Life (Talking) and Letter From Home. It's a bit like diet-Pat Metheny Group, as the music does not go into more psychedelic or pastoral directions. However, while Pat is not present, Lyle is, and provides some great piano on the tracks he's on. Nando provides the vocals here as well. There are more vocals here than the PMG albums, and a lot of other sounds, like flute, accordion, here and provide a lot of color.
He only released one other album, Novo Brasil in 1996, which is similar in style to Points of View, Brazilian folk jazz. No PMG members on this one.
(https://img.discogs.com/CKiTnOisMN1GYkpuWfo46fSkdRY=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-6715242-1425204348-3783.jpeg.jpg)
Both albums were re-released on one compilation album, as the two individual albums are out of print.
Novo Brasil is presented first, followed by Points of View.
(https://lite-images-i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d00001e025b58d5082c5733e5851cdf54)
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Pat Metheny - Zero Tolerance For Silence (1994)
(https://img.discogs.com/4geZ68_jQwP-1hBNkEO22Aayh0o=/fit-in/600x597/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-58904-1318090374.jpeg.jpg)
Is it the heaviest metal jazz ever created?
or
Is it the sound you hear when entering a Guitar Center?
You decide...
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Wow, I've never heard this one. Never heard of this one!
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color me intrigued, I'm going to listen to this afternoon.
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Curious to read your reactions. Personally, this is not an album I've listened to more than once or twice, because of how dissonant and noisy it is.
St. Anger is a masterpiece of music compared to ZTFS. Some call the CD the greatest coaster for your coffee table.
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What. The. Fuck. I'm not going to lie I didn't listen to this one all the way through. I skipped around usually a few minutes after getting into each track. I think "the sound when entering guitar center" is the perfect description of this album. I think the best part of this album was the youtube comments. "This album really puts the meth in Metheny" had me laughing pretty hard. What the hell was his motivation to do this album?
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I've read somewhere that this period of time for Pat was tough period of time for him, personally and emotionally, like around '92-'94. It helps explain why the music in this era is a bit more unorthodox to what came before, and reason for the extreme mood changes from album to album. The music released in this period ranges from either deeply sad (Secret Story), to aggressively angry (ZTFS).
There is an album Pat was featured on from Gary Thomas. Till We Have Faces (1992)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Till_We_Have_Faces_%28Gary_Thomas_album%29.jpg)
Pat is on electric distorted guitar for the entire album, and the music itself is very aggressive jazz. Not free jazz or anything. Just very 'angry' sounding jazz. It's 100 times more musical than ZTFS, which was thankfully a one-off. Pat actually did a lot of guest and session work during this time and appeared on albums by Joshua Redman, Roy Haynes, Bruce Hornsby, and Kenny Garrett, and I highly recommend checking those albums out if you enjoy Pat's work. It's all listed under his name on wikipedia.
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Something else that came out from this time is a bit more in line from what we expect from Pat and friends.
Noa - Noa (1994)
(https://img.discogs.com/i6TseAneUjKljkcznX--y70saUk=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-2811320-1449939931-1754.jpeg.jpg)
What would Pat Metheny Group sound like if it were a pop band? This album, I guess. Achinoam Nini, known as "Noa", is an Israeli singer-songwriter, and percussionist. Her debut album utilizes the musicianship of Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays, Steve Rodby, Danny Gottlieb, as well as some musicians who were on Secret Story. This album was produced by Pat and Steve, so it has that PMG feel to it, not to mention Lyle's keyboards dominate, many of his classic tones are heard throughout the album. Noa is a nice singer, it's not my thing, but I can appreciate it. She has that 1994 alt. rock/pop sound in her voice. It's interesting to hear this quasi-PMG album with a full time lead singer, as opposed to PMG teasing that kind of thing with their last 2 studio albums up til this point. Some of this makes me think of some Disney music from the early 90s movies like The Little Mermaid or Aladdin. Pat himself apparently provides some backup vocals, but I don't hear it. Unfortunately, he didn't provide any solos, I believe Gil Dor provides most of the guitar, but Lyle, Steve, and Danny are very much present.
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Awesome write-ups, will check those out tomorrow. I'm interested in what 'angry' Jazz sounds like.
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Awesome write-ups, will check those out tomorrow. I'm interested in what 'angry' Jazz sounds like.
The Noa album is easy to look up, it's on streaming sites, but the Gary Thomas one might not be as easy to find, so here's a link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1b_-h6sIzw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1b_-h6sIzw)
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The Pat Metheny/Scofield album is awesome, although quite long. I like to listen to individual tracks from it more than just playing the whole album. It’s interesting to hear Pat kinda match Scofield’s tone, it’s a little grittier than usual. They complement each other really well and I feel that Sco forced Pat out of some of his usual playing boxes.
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Pat Metheny Group - We Live Here (1995)
(https://lastfm.freetls.fastly.net/i/u/ar0/b8ff42f226b9d55cd450414fb6b72545.jpg)
Pat Metheny Group's first full studio release since 1989's Letter From Home. Immediately, we can hear this is not a repeat of that album or Still Life (Talking). This is a progression into more contemporary (for 1995) pop rhythms, some may even go so far to call this "smooth jazz", but while the production values on this album are quite slick, even for PMG, and the drum patterns (at first glance) seem more simplified, this is an illusion. There is plenty to enjoy that we've come to expect from the Group. Complex music that sounds accessible and catchy. The centerpiece of this album, the 12 minute "To The End Of The World" exemplifies this. A mysterious groove, almost 90s hip-hop sounding, with a haunting melody. This is one of Pat's best guitar solos throughout his vast discography. It's so powerful, how it builds up to it with Lyle's beautiful piano solo that precedes it.
The album art continues the collage style of album art that had been on most Pat and PMG albums since 1987, but this would be the last album with that type of album art for a while.
There are still small hints of Brazilian music here, mostly in the percussion and vocals, but it is overshadowed by the overall pop/r&b sound that this album has. This album is 100% more creative than any actual "smooth jazz" that's out there. This is more of an experiment that the band took on, to see what they could do with updated recording technology that the 90s offered, plus trying new things. I think overall, this album is a great success, and a natural progression from what the band was doing in the 80s and early 90s, without going backwards. To me, this is also the band's most 'fun' album, things don't get too serious, and the mood is very light and bouncy. There are, of course, many beautiful passages, and some of the Group's strongest melodies.
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Pat Metheny Group - Quartet (1996)
(https://img.discogs.com/Z3JEG5sPtBFJjACNQr3C4Q3OxYQ=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1772453-1242377975.jpeg.jpg)
For the first time since 1979's American Garage, Pat Metheny Group is presented as a ***spoiler alert*** quartet.
No singers, no extra percussionists.
It's just Metheny, Mays, Rodby, and Wertico on this album, guitar, piano, bass, and drums, and mostly acoustic instruments from the four as well (though Pat plays clean electric guitar most of the time, and Lyle does play some keyboards here and there). This music is in stark contrast to the previous album, We Live Here, which was more 'electronic', more upbeat, and more pop and hip-hop influenced.
On this album, most tracks are more loosely composed, and consist mainly of improvisations from the band. The sound is the jazziest the Group has ever been on a studio album, as we hear right off the bat on the intro track simply titled "Introduction". There is little fusion here, almost no rock rhythms, and gone are the South American influences aside from a couple of fleeting moments. Instead, besides an uptick in contemporary American jazz sounds, we hear more Eastern influences, as well as Pat's 42-string Picasso Guitar, which had been featured on Secret Story and I Can See Your House From Here. This gives the music a more surreal, ethereal sound, as well as a darker edge overall.
This is probably my least favorite of all the PMG studio albums, mostly because there are few real tunes here, as mentioned before, much of the music here is improvised. The more composed stuff like As I Am (no relation to the Dream Theater song) or Sometimes I See, are also more dense that the usual PMG fare, so it can be hard to get into. However, this album is still an enjoyable listen, it is intriguing to hear these guys play this type of stuff, and the band goes in directions never heard again after this, like on the tracks Dismantling Uptopia or Mojave, with their strange and unorthodox playing. Tunes like the desolate sounding "Badland" make me picture the scene in the movie Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from 1990, when we first see The Shredder appear and give his speech to his minions. If you've watched the movie, you know what I'm talking about, the music on Badland is very similar to the music in that scene. We still get some classic PMG tunes here as well, like on When We Were Free, and Language of Time, the former becoming a live staple of Pat's live shows outside of the Group, though none of the tracks here were performed live by the actual Pat Metheny Group as far as I am aware.
Possibly the black sheep of all the Pat Metheny Group albums, as this seems like the least discussed PMG album across the internet and beyond.
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Going to do some yardwork and catch up today...
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Pat Metheny - Passaggio per il Paradiso (1996)
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpatmethenymusic.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2Fparadiso.png&hash=878289d2e1fd67bfa25b3804b016133c66c7f930)
The soundtrack for a movie of the same name, this sounds a bit like a sequel to Secret Story, in that it's very moody, orchestral at times, and overall sad. However, unlike Secret Story, Pat plays all instruments here, some instruments besides his guitar sound like they may have been played through a keyboard or synthesizer. I'm not sure. Though there are many tracks with many titles, they mainly go back and forth between two main themes of the album (Title theme, and Marta's theme) with one detour towards the end (Renato's Theme)
The music sounds like it could have been part of a Pat Metheny Group album, but it's repetitiveness keeps it from being as good as any Pat or PMG album. The 2nd to last track Finale (It's Always Worth The Trouble) is a summation of all the themes, with a big payoff at the end, which is the best part of the album. However, I find the music tedious to get through most of the time, and could have benefited from more variety, so I don't think it's worth listening to mostly two themes repeated over and over for ~35 minutes just to get to that track. Definitely an album to check out if you've heard everything by Pat and need more, but it isn't essential listening. Pat would record a better soundtrack album a few years later. Not sure if this is available out there online to casually listen to...
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Charlie Haden & Pat Metheny - Beyond the Missouri Sky (Short Stories) (1997)
(https://img.discogs.com/a3ffB1IXkEMUFGDrsX9OgYW5wTQ=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-12460596-1537889322-6264.jpeg.jpg)
A duet album between Haden and Metheny. There are no drums except for very minimal ones on the last song. Very laid back album, but there are some classic Pat moments on here. The album evokes a mid-western feel, as also shown on the album cover. Some pretty tunes here, a few more melancholic ones, too. Most of the tunes are covers, Pat provides two compositions, Haden the rest. I don't recognize the covers so it's all new Pat music for me. A nice album to put on if you want something more mellow or just want music that really focuses on Pat's playing. Haden provides a great backup to what Pay plays on this album. Not one I throw on a lot, but it's nice when I do.
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Alright some catching up:
Till We Have Faces - Thank you for the link. My immediate impression after opening this album up and hearing that opening drum fill I knew I was going to love this record, as I listened more I became even more sure of that. I can understand why you described it as angry jazz, it felt very in your face. I really liked this record (I'm listening to it again right now :lol) and I'm going to seek it out to add to my collection.
Noa - This album was good but not my favorite. Nothing really stuck out to me on this record, this might be due to me listening to it right after the Gary Thomas album so I might not have been in the right headspace for it. It sounds a lot like the previous PMG albums in the sense of production and writing. My biggest complaint about this record would be Noa's vocals. They are not terrible, but at some points it seems really breathy and at times I think she can have a weird inflection, maybe it's her vibrato? Her style of singing reminds me a little bit of Tori Amos. "Mishaela" was the standout for me on this record.
I got Quartet queued up next and Passaggio after that. Will post when I get through those.
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Glad you like the Gary Thomas album. That album is an outlier for Pat albums. What are your thoughts on We Live Here?
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Pat Metheny Group - Imaginary Day (1997)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/514EkAhagLL.jpg)
Easily one of the Group's best albums. Prog-jazz at its finest, and features some of the most diverse music in their catalog, all on one album. From the opening notes of the title track, this is yet another adventure unlike the previous albums. Where the previous album We Live Here was more mainstream sounding, and follow up Quartet was looser, sometimes jazzier, and delved into darker realms, this album is more constructed, composed, and high energy, and sounds nothing like the previous PMG albums, aside from the band member's individual styles. We get more folk and 'exotic' sounds again, but this time the influences seems to be coming from Tibet, India, Eastern Europe, and Australia. Vocalists return on some tracks here, but are more subdued. The band is also augmented by various percussionists, including vibraphonist Dave Samuels.
Each track is its own flavor, from progressive, to dreamy, to densely layered, to hard-hitting and aggressive, particular on the track The Roots of Coincidence, which is the only PMG track where the band plays metal, but with a cool techno-sounding almost bass n drum groove underneath. There is some great 'solo' Pat guitar on the album, and we even get, what sounds to me, like swashbuckling pirate sounding stuff on the last track. This album is a huge grower, and because of its compositional density, may take a few listens to 'get' but there are enough classic moments from Pat and Lyle to hook you in right away. This would be the last album with long time drummer Paul Wertico, who would leave the band a few years after this album's release.
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I just wanted to say that I appreciate darkshade doing this discography and that I intend to someday read through this all. But my life has been busy as hell lately and we're past the stuff I have on my harddrive, so it's been tough finding the time. I still love pretty much everything I've heard from Pat though. Someday...
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Gary Burton - Like Minds (1998)
with Chick Corea, Pat Metheny, Dave Holland, Roy Haynes
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71ymiNX5VZL._SS500_.jpg)
Gary Burton co-headlines this album that is really a Pat Metheny album like Question and Answer (which also features Holland and Haynes) but with Burton and Corea also contributing, sort of a full band "Crystal Silence" affair fused with Metheny's vision. Much of this music is acoustic jazz post bop, with Pat sticking to the clean guitar throughout, no effects. This album is a great companion to Pat's 1989 Question and Answer album, well as Roy Haynes' 1994 album "Te Vou!" which also features Pat; as well as companion to Chick and Burton's duet recordings like "Crystal Silence". If you like all those albums, you'll very likely enjoy this album. A great afternoon album.
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love Imaginary Day!
Roots of Coincidence is so bloody good!
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Like Minds is a classic, Avengers-level team up of awesome Jazz musicians. Really great sound too, it was recorded in the legendary Avatar studios and has a really nice warmth. There’s a lot of subtlety to the playing, especially dealing with three chordal instruments, so the added definition is a huge plus.
I’m a sucker for anything that Gary Burton does, especially if Pat is involved.
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Did some catching up:
We Live Here - Smooth Jazz is the first thing that came to mind when hearing this record. It reminded me of growing up and listening to our local smooth jazz station with my dad on drives. There is some great playing on this record and it's very even keel in terms of mood and feel. I particularly like the playing on "The Girls Next Door", there was some real tasty guitar work there. This song also reminded me of something I'd find the The Sims soundtrack :lol. I think my favorite track of the album would probably go to "Stranger In Town". Some of the phrasing seemed really similar to Guthrie Govan's style of playing which really appealed to me
Quartet - This was a tougher listen to me. Where with We Live Here I liked the album from start to finish there were some songs that stuck out that I didn't care for, mainly Montevideo. The thing I did enjoy about this album is it seemed more downbeat than We Live Here. I could listen to We Live Here on the drive to work and listen to Quartet winding down at night (maybe spin "Mojave" watching a horror movie).
Passaggio per il Paradiso - I don't really have much to say about this album because I only found a few tracks to this album on youtube. I did enjoy what I heard and I agree with the orchestral sentiment. I'll keep searching and see if I can find a playlist for it.
Beyond The Missouri Sky - I think this might be my favorite album of this particular group of albums. Pat's guitar tone really stands out to me here. I thought the songs here were really delicate and beautiful. I didn't recognize any of the tunes so I don't really have a reference to the original material they are covering.
Imaginary Day - A few years back when I went on a mission to listen to Pat this was one of the first two albums I picked to listen through and quite frankly at the time it didn't do much for me. After listening to it again I kind of feel the same way, it just feel indifferent to me. Having heard this I think I'd rather go back listen to any of the previous albums. That said I love "Into The Dream", it's an awesome little tune.
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New live album "Side-Eye" coming and Tour.
"Better Days"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV8Qk4kJ8ZQ
https://www.patmetheny.com/news/full_display.cfm?id=149
Side-Eye Extensive World Tour Dates Unveiled
7.13.2021
As is only fitting for a musician known for an extensive touring regime, Metheny has announced over 100 concerts world-wide to accompany the release of SIDE-EYE— returning to the road this fall and spanning well into 2022, with even more shows to be announced soon. As on the recording, the live version of SIDE-EYE will feature the phenomenally talented pianist/organist/keyboardist James Francies. The drum chair in SIDE-EYE has been filled to-date by some of the most exciting players around including Eric Harland, Anwar Marshall and most notably, Marcus Gilmore, who is spotlighted on the recording. The exciting young New Orleans drummer, Joe Dyson, will be featured in the upcoming live performances around the world.
PAT METHENY SIDE-EYE TOUR DATES
September 16, 2021 - Jazz Alley - Seattle, WA
September 17, 2021 - Jazz Alley - Seattle, WA
September 18, 2021 - Jazz Alley - Seattle, WA
September 19, 2021 - Jazz Alley - Seattle, WA
September 21, 2021 - Revolution Hall - Portland, OR
September 22, 2021 - Cascade Theater - Redding, CA
September 24, 2021 - Monterey Jazz Fest - Monterey, CA
September 25, 2021 - SFJazz Center Miner Auditorium - San Francisco, CA
September 26, 2021 - SFJazz Center Miner Auditorium - San Francisco, CA
September 27, 2021 - Crest Theater - Sacramento, CA
September 29, 2021 - Lobero Theatre - Santa Barbara, CA
September 30, 2021 - The Rady Shell at Jacobs Park - San Diego, CA
October 1, 2021 - Irvine Barclay Theatre - Irvine, CA
October 3, 2021 - Mesa Arts Center - Mesa, AZ
October 5, 2021 - Fox Tucson Theatre - Tucson, AZ
October 6, 2021 - National Hispanic Cultural Center - Albuquerque, NM
October 7, 2021 - Boulder Theatre - Boulder, CO
October 8, 2021 - Strings Music Pavilion - Steamboat Springs, CO
October 9, 2021 - Paramount Theatre - Denver, CO
October 11, 2021 - Lied Center Performing Arts - Lincoln, NB
October 12, 2021 - Pantages Theatre - Minneapolis, MN
October 14, 2021 - Pabst Theatre - Milwaukee, WI
October 15, 2021 - Thalia Hall (2 shows) - Chicago, IL
October 16, 2021 - Memorial Hall - Cincinnati, OH
October 17, 2021 -Orchestra Hall - Detroit, MI
November 4, 2021 - Flying Monkey - Plymouth, NH
November 5, 2021 - State Theatre - Portland, ME
November 6, 2021 - Foxwoods- The Fox Theater - Mashantucket, CT
November 7, 2021 - Wilbur Theatre - Boston, MA
November 9, 2021 - Ridgefield Playhouse - Ridgefield, CT
November 11, 2021 - Keswick Theater - Glenside, PA
November 12, 2021 - State Theatre New Jersey - New Brunswick, NJ
November 13, 2021 - The Music Center at Strathmore - N Bethesda, MD
November 14, 2021 - Patchogue Theater of Performing Arts - Patchogue, NY
November 16, 2021 - Williams Center for the Arts - Easton, PA
November 18, 2021 - Kodak Theater - Rochester, NY
November 19, 2021 - Troy Music Hall - Troy, NY
November 20, 2021 - Academy of Music - Northampton, MA
February 3, 2022 - State Theatre - State College, PA
February 4, 2022 - Ferguson Center for the Arts - Newport News, VA
February 5, 2022 - Jefferson Center - Roanoke, VA
February 7, 2022 - Schermerhorn Symphony Center - Nashville, TN
February 8, 2022 - Thomas Wolfe Auditorium - Asheville, NC
February 9, 2022 - Carolina Theater - Durham, NC
February 11, 2022 - Blumenthal Knight Arts Theater - Charlotte, NC
February 12, 2022 - Variety Theater (2 Shows) - Atlanta, GA
February 13, 2022 - UAB’s Alys Stephens Center - Birmingham, AL
February 14, 2022 - Charleston Music Hall - Charleston, SC
February 16, 2022 - Lyric Center - Stuart, FL
February 17, 2022 - Dr. Phillips Center - Orlando, FL
February 18, 2022 - Arsht Center Knight Concert Hall - Miami, FL
February 19, 2022 - Florida Theatre - Jacksonville, FL
February 20, 2022 - Capitol Theatre - Clearwater, FL
February 23, 2022 - One World Theater - Austin, TX
February 24, 2022 - One World Theater - Austin, TX
February 25, 2022 - Cullen Theater - Houston, TX
February 26, 2022 - Majestic Theatre- Dallas, TX
April 26, 2022 - Sono Centrum- Brno, Cz
April 27, 2022 - Wiener Konzerthaus- Vienna, Au
April 28, 2022 - MUPA - Budapest, Hgy
April 29, 2022 - Forum Karlin - Prague, Cz
May 1, 2022 - Alte Oper Erfurt - Erfurt, Gr
May 2, 2022 - Alte Oper - Frankfurt, Gr
May 3, 2022 - Tollhaus Karlsruhe - Karlsruhe, Gr
May 4, 2022 - Tonhalle Dusseldorf - Dusseldorf, Gr
May 6, 2022 - Grand Teatro Geox - Padova, It
May 7, 2022 - Teatro Alighieri -Ravenna, It
May 8, 2022 - Teatro Umberto Giordano - Foggia, It
May 9, 2022 - Auditorium Parco della Musica - Rome, It
May 11, 2022 - Auditorium Del Lingotto - Torino, It
May 12, 2022 - Teatro degli Arcimboldi - Milano, It
May 13, 2022 - Volkhaus - Zurich, Sw
May 14, 2022 - Philharmonie im Gasteig - Munich, Gr
May 15, 2022 - Philharmonic Luxembourg - Luxembourg
May 17, 2022 - Admiralspalast - Berlin, Gr
May 19, 2022 - Oetkerhalle Halle - Bielefeld, Gr
May 20, 2022 - Geblasehalle - Neunkirchen, Gr
May 21, 2022 - L’Olympia - Paris, Fr
May 22, 2022 - Ancienne Belgique - Brussels, Bl
May 24, 2022 - Beethoven Saal - Stuttgart, Gr
May 25, 2022 - Konzerthaus Dortmund - Dortmund, Gr
May 27, 2022 - Haus Auensee - Leipzig, Gr
May 28, 2022 - Laeiszhalle - Hamburg, Gr
May 29, 2022 - De Roma - Antwerp, Bl
May 30, 2022 - Tivoli Vredenberg - Utrecht, Hld
June 2, 2022 - Opera Nova - Bydgoszcz, Pl
June 3, 2022 - Opera Lesna - Sopot, Pl
June 4, 2022 - Palladium - Warsaw, Pl
June 6, 2022 - National Forum of Music - Wroclaw, Pl
June 7, 2022 - Centrum Spotkania Kultur - Lublin, Pl
June 8, 2022 - Church of St. Kolbe - Bielsko-Biala, Pl
June 9, 2022 - Kunsthaus Weiz - Weiz, Aus
June 12, 2022 - Hammersmith - London, UK
June 14, 2022 - Rocher de Palmer - Cenon, Fr
June 15, 2022 - Sala Mozart - Zaragoza, Sp
June 17, 2022 - Aud. Mar de Vigo - Vigo, Sp
June 18, 2022 - Botanical Garden - Madrid, Sp
June 19, 2022 - Teatro de la Maestranza - Seville, Sp
June 21, 2022 - Palau de la Musica - Barcelona, Sp
June 22, 2022 - Palau de les Arts - Valencia, Sp
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I'm not sure if I'll be in town February but if I am I'm definitely going to try and catch him in Charlotte.
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Jim Hall & Pat Metheny (1999)
(https://img.discogs.com/8ZjxDXDRZ2gdgDgNzfx6-BKs0aU=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-13875105-1563191302-3536.jpeg.jpg)
Another duet album, this time with guitarist Jim Hall. Half studio/half live, the audience is silent on the live tracks so it feels like a studio album with the occasional audience clapping. Jim is on the left channel, and Pat is on the right channel. There is a lot of mid-range electric clean guitar on this album, what with both guitarist's preferred EQ settings, but Pat also includes acoustic guitar, fretless acoustic guitar, and his 42 string Picasso guitar. The mood is mellow, definitely a dreamy album. This is actually one of the first exposures to Pat's playing I ever heard, so I have a soft spot for this album. There is a lot of Pat's stuff on here, mixed with some standards, and improvisations sprinkled in, especially towards the end of the album. A wonderful listen to get lost in during a late night session.
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Rick Beato posted his interview with Pat today, I haven't had a chance to watch it yet but I'll check it out tonight https://youtu.be/QEgalcH_-b4
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Nice. Thanks for the heads up.
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I watched the whole interview, and Rick Beato is a great interviewer. I'm surprised they didn't discuss the new album(s) much but it was great to hear Pat talk about the 70s music and musicians he worked with from that period. This was a very insightful interview, they really dived in to Pat's mode of thinking about music, and the things he plays and works on to improve as a guitarist/musician/bandleader.
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Pat Metheny - A Map Of The World (1999)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71%2BQVxACO9L._AC_SX679_.jpg)
Another soundtrack album by Pat for a movie I've never seen or heard of otherwise. The movie stars Sigourney Weaver and Julianne Moore,
Signourney's voice is heard on this album on one of the tracks, I assume it's a line from the movie.
The music is reminiscent of Pat's previous soundtrack album, Passaggio per il Paradiso, but this album
is much better in my opinion. The album's whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and the album mostly progresses like a suite.
There are many tracks here, some of them are variations of the main themes, but others are their own tune.
There is heavy orchestration on this album, we hear lush strings throughout underneath Pat's guitar.
There is little jazz here, and even less drums or percussion. It's more orchestral, almost classical.
A very pretty album, it is not quite as good as an album like Secret Story but it has many heartfelt moments, and even a few darker moments.
There are some moments that remind me of some stuff from Pat Metheny Group, but overall this feels more like a Pat solo album.
It's a little slow at times, and with the lack of drums, is not a preferred album of his for me, but when I put it on,
I can't help but let the music wash over me, for the melodies truly are beautiful.
(https://pics.filmaffinity.com/A_Map_of_the_World-640358886-large.jpg)
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Pat Metheny - Trio 99 → 00 (2000)
(https://img.discogs.com/4t5GD4oKrkavuAXXlozuoDawQ98=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5094297-1505251759-1042.jpeg.jpg)
This is a group Pat put together in the late 90s as follows the continuity of albums like Question and Answer and Rejoicing. Pat sticks to clean electric guitar and some acoustic guitar, with Larry Grenadier and Bill Stewart of drums. This rhythm section frequently played with John Scofield, but with Pat, their energy is quite different, as Pat's music can be fast paced and complex. Having said that, there are a few mellower tunes here as well. I really like Soul Cowboy and Just Like The Day. This cover of Giant Steps is interesting and unique, and I enjoy the two Pat Metheny Group 'covers' at the end, especially Travels, that's just a great melody. The sound of the music is a little sterile to me, and that is why I sometimes prefer to listen to the live album that accompanied this one, released around the same time:
Pat Metheny - Trio → Live (2000)
(https://www.patmetheny.com/assets/images/media_images/pat-metheny-trio-live.jpg)
On this album, the tunes come to life. Pat also has his synth guitar and effects present, along with the Picasso guitar. We also get some "greatest hits" from Pat's canon, including Bright Size Life, Question and Answer, Into The Dream, So May It Secretly Begin, The Bat, James, Unity Village, and long time favorite cover of Pat's "All The Things You Are" which was also on the Jim Hall and Pat Metheny album. A few of the tunes here are extended much longer than their studio counterparts.
The new tunes are played incredibly well and the sound is incredible. While the 1st disc could be considered a 'safe' Pat Metheny disc, the 2nd disc of this album is mostly focused on the newer stuff, and the last three tracks consist of brand new, previously unreleased music. Night Turns Into Day, Faith Healer, and Counting Texas. FH in particular is a 18 minute behemoth, sounding quite unlike the other Trio stuff up until this point. It goes into Zero Tolerance For Silence territory, but thankfully never goes fully there, or for too long, plus the band sounds quite ferocious on the track. Pat also utilizes his synth guitar a lot on this one.
Overall, these aren't my favorite Pat albums, but I tend to seek these albums out when I want to listen to other Pat albums that I listen to more frequently. I find the two albums to be companion albums, I usually will want to listen to both around the same time when I'm digging for more Pat to listen to. They're good, real good at times, it's just there is more out there I like even more.
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The live album is the best document of that band. It features the best material from the studio album and played better. The Latin flavored Giant Steps is really cool and it has one of the best versions of Question and Answer. Nice to hear old favorites like So It May Secretly Begin, Bright Size Life, and Unity Village. Not super into the free jazz moments, but the actual tunes are great. Awesome All the Things You Are.
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Lyle Mays - Solo: Improvisations For Expanded Piano (2000)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61NblpG7uTL._SS500_.jpg)
The 4th and final Lyle Mays solo album, and this time, it's a true solo album. There is only piano and some light synths on this album. This is a much darker album than anything I've heard from Lyle Mays. Definitely an album to listen to at night with all the lights off. The only track that sounds a little different is the final tune, "Long Life" which sounds more like the classic Mays sound we've come to know and love, like something from his 80s work or most PMG albums. It's a shame Lyle didn't record more albums in his lifetime, as they all have their own identifiable character, and his style of playing I can never get sick of, it is so lyrical, melodic, touching, and really one of a kind. Though his canon is limited compared to others, I put him up there with the piano legends alongside Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, Bill Evans, and Duke Ellington.
I realize now that I accidentally skipped Lyle's 1993 album "Fictionary" which features Marc Johnson on bass and Jack DeJohnette on drums. That is a great jazz album with very great production, and a must hear if you like any of the musicians on it. More of a straight ahead affair, Lyle mostly plays acoustic piano, but it still has that Lyle touch which is unmistakably him and there are some great tunes on there as well.
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Was on vacation so not much music listening. Will catch up this weekend and post my thoughts.
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Pat Metheny Group - Speaking Of Now (2002)
(https://img.discogs.com/BFFfHE1ZrYJ31BXdhp7GSn2jl2s=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-3175811-1597476470-1956.jpeg.jpg)
The best way I can describe this album, is that it's a safe album by Pat Metheny Group. It's a very good album, one of the better albums in Pat's discography, but something about it just feels... safe. The music continues the dense composed style of Imaginary Day, but brings back some of the South American sounds and influences heard on the Group's 80s and early 90s releases. With that, there is a sense of "we've been here before", which is contrast to PMG's discography of always looking ahead, trying to break new ground. I also don't consider this album as exciting as those albums from the 80s/90s. Having said that, there is some great material here, and it is an easier listen than the Group's last few albums, for sure. The mood is a feel-good mood, perhaps brought on by the new vocalists who add a warmth to the sound, unlike someone like Pedro Aznar, where there was a sort of sadness that came from his voice, to my ears at least.
This is also an important one, as it is the first album to feature then-new drummer Antonio Sánchez, who has become Pat's "sidekick" in a way, appearing on almost all Pat Metheny releases since 2002 to the present day. His style has a more 'updated' sound than the previous PMG drummers, as Sanchez doesn't rely on rock rhythms very often. Instead he is a much busier drummer, with lots of chops, and not sticking to slick beats. Not that the previous drummers weren't technically proficient, but Antonio definitely plays like he means business, and probably wants to show he can hang with guys like Jack DeJohnette and Roy Haynes, as he is 'the young new guy' here. He is also, at times, lighter as well. His playing is very dynamic.
Musically, this album includes some new sounds we haven't heard on a PMG album, like trumpet, from another new member Cuong Vu, and multi-instrumentalist Richard Bona. Of course Pat, Lyle, and Rodby are back, and play as great as ever. It's just this album, while it has all the PMG trademarks, catchy melodies, great solos, lush orchestration, it just doesn't rise above most other PMG albums for me. It doesn't move me like most other albums do, it's just a nice, pleasant listen. Which is great, but makes it so I don't reach for this one as often as I should. When I do listen, though, I'm never less than impressed with how Pat and Lyle could put this beautiful music together. Ironically, I think the best tune here is the song "Afternoon", a song sung by Richard Bona in a mix of Spanish and English, but I'm not totally sure. The song itself is quite catchy, with a lovely swinging rhythm, something not heard often from Pat and co. It's also incredibly fun and easy to play along to on guitar. "Proof" became a live staple for a while, and the last tune "Wherever You Go" is a classic PMG tune, highly underrated. The Japanese import also contains a bonus track, "Epilogue" which is a solo acoustic guitar piece.
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Speaking of now, Lyle Mays' new EP "Eberhard", and final studio album was released today. Recorded in 2019 and 2020. A 13 minute jazz-prog "mini symphony". It's all Lyle, but has these moments that make me think of the music of Eberhard Weber, the German bassist/composer. Lyle appeared on one of Weber's albums, "Later That Evening" (1982)
https://jazztimes.com/blog/lyle-mays-final-studio-work-to-be-released-in-august/ (https://jazztimes.com/blog/lyle-mays-final-studio-work-to-be-released-in-august/)
(https://jazz.fm/app/uploads/eberhardcoversquare-600x599.png)
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Pat Metheny - One Quiet Night (2003)
(https://img.discogs.com/NKeTr5H_fk3B0q7vXStdUd0JC-4=/fit-in/600x594/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2170915-1420289227-8636.jpeg.jpg)
If you enjoy Pat Metheny's solo guitar pieces, you will probably love this album, as that is what this album is. A collection of tunes, most written by Pat, played solely on the acoustic guitar. This is an album I didn't care for too much early on in my Pat listening, essentially overlooked it. Over time, it has grown on me and I now consider it one of Pat's best. Since it is solo acoustic, I don't throw it on as regularly as other Pat offerings, but this is still a fine album. It is very stripped down Pat Metheny Group in a lot of ways. The originals are deep, thought-provoking; the covers are beautiful, peaceful. Pat's rendition of "Don't Know Why" is great. The sound on the album is so crystal clear, no doubt because PMG bassist Steve Rodby produced it along with Pat. He's produced most of Pat's albums for the last 30 years.
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love Speaking of Now and it was probably the 1st album i ever heard from Pat Metheny. Sanchez, Cuong Vu and Richard Bona all stand out in different ways. I actually mentioned it recently in a YouTube video I made, among some albums I want to come out on Vinyl, that have yet to. I dunno if Pat doesn't feel it's warranted, or just haven't found the time to sign off for it to be pressed on Vinyl. I wish it would though.
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I haven't caught up yet but I am really familiar with One Quiet Night
I've known the name Pat Metheny for about as long as I've been playing guitar but it took forever for me to check him out. A few years back I got on youtube and looked for some Pat Metheny stuff, I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvaVQZP6A_M I loved this acoustic medley. Having finished watching it a half dozen times I quickly went looking for more acoustic stuff from Pat, I didn't really find much.
Fast forward a couple years and the title track to One Quiet Night pops up on my discover playlist on Spotify and I fell in love spinning the track multiple times throughout the day. I then went and checked out the rest of the album and enjoyed it start to finish. This is easily my favorite Pat album simply because it sounds like a world of acoustic music that I'm already intimately familiar with; albums like Passion Session by Don Ross except that Pat's album has a more somber feel to it. The playing is suberb as is the tone and production of this album. My two standout tracks are One Quiet Night and Song For The Boys, back to back bangers. I put the album on again while writing this post and it just puts a smile on my face.
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Pat Metheny Group - The Way Up (2005)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Pmg_-_way_up.jpg)
This is the band's magnum opus. A 68 minute-long single composition, divided into 4 tracks; though I've seen copies that divide it into 3 tracks, I will be discussing the version with 4 tracks. This is a massive composition that twists and turns and never lets up. This album came out around the time I first became aware of Pat Metheny. Due to it's grand scale, I did not get into it right away. Granted, the opening and introduction of the main theme caught my ears right away. It is a gorgeous melody. After the first few minutes of the 2nd track, the piece becomes a lot more complex, and I will admit it's taken me years to fully appreciate this album from beginning to end, but now I think this is possibly Pat and Lyle's greatest work, and not only one of the best jazz albums to ever be made, but one of the most progressive albums I've ever heard. It is prog-jazz insanity, interlaced with classic Metheny/Mays themes, at times it feels like the summation of the Group's entire career, but other times, it sounds like nothing I've heard before.
This would wind up being the band's final studio album, and the last time we would hear Lyle Mays on a studio album until the recently released "Eberhard". After the tour for this album, Lyle Mays faded out of the music business. Sanchez continues playing with Metheny to this day. Rodby has been co-producing pretty much all of Pat's albums since the late 90s, and Cuong Vu would re-unite with Pat for an album a few years later.
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I've said it many times, The Way Up was much better live when I saw Pat and his band perform the whole thing with the Westwood Collegiate Band (from Manitoba) in Minneapolis in 2005.
The studio album has moments, but I feel it drags in spots. Why I have always preferred Speaking of Now over it.
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The live DVD from this album's tour is a great one. PMG is a live band that made studio albums. There is a bunch of live video releases from Pat Metheny Group, but no audio-only CDs, only Travels and The Road To You. I would listen to the live The Way Up more often if I had the audio files, or a live CD. I got the Live Imaginary Day DVD recently and have been meaning to put it on, and you helped remind me I have it and need to check it out.
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Years ago (via Blockbuster Online, that's how many years ago) I was checking out every live DVD I could get my hands on. Similar to Netflix, a fixed monthly fee meant I could have up to three discs at a time, check them out, send one back while I check out the others, get the next one in my queue, rinse and repeat. My queue had dozens of live DVDs, concert videos, makings-of, etc., from everybody I'd ever heard of and some I hadn't.
I didn't read the info on "The Way Up - Live" very closely and thought it was a "normal" concert. Man, that opening piece was incredible. It kept going, kept changing... it was mind-blowing. Finally after like an hour or whatever, they concluded the piece... and said good-night. What? Only one tune? It was a hell of a tune, for sure, but I guess I should've read the notes a little better. I was left with mixed feelings because it was an astounding performance, but I wasn't ready for that to be the entire performance so there was a tinge of disappointment as well.
But that was my intro to the piece. I've checked out the studio version, but as darkshade said, it's kinda hard to get into it after the live version which is so much better. Okay, "better" isn't quite fair, because there's nothing wrong with the studio version. Something had to come first. But man, that live performance was fire. Great stuff.
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Bumping this thread to state that Pat's most recent album, Road To The Sun, is really hitting the spot on this rainy morning.
It has that Watercolors/New Chautauqua vibe.
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Pat's new album Side-Eye NYC (V1.IV) has been released today. Check it out.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/sep/10/pat-metheny-side-eye-nyc-v1iv-review (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/sep/10/pat-metheny-side-eye-nyc-v1iv-review)
https://open.spotify.com/embed/album/5sNliKF0xxF8BdJuCUpFUW (https://open.spotify.com/embed/album/5sNliKF0xxF8BdJuCUpFUW)
(https://ljazzn.files.wordpress.com/2021/08/pat-500x500-1.jpg?w=500)
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New album is live, consists of half new material, half fresh takes on old favorites, which are very pleasing to the ear. The new material ranges from energetic, almost-fusion material, with loads of great keyboard work with synths and organ, to Pink Floydian textures with that identifiable Metheny shredding solo. Pat rocks out, Pat's clean tone is butter, the band stylistically is covering a lot of ground, from jazz, soul, blues, fusion, rock, dub, drum n bass, and third stream.
Pat's last few albums released have been pretty great, and I think are his best run of albums in a long time. There is a breath of fresh air in the new material, and the music has a bigger sense of adventure than much of Pat's albums from last decade or so. The sound is also warmer, where I feel most of his albums since The Way Up, has a cold production to me, with the exception of Orchestrion. Pat's tone, particularly his clean tone, often felt muffled and hollow. While I can appreciate the diversity in sound over the course of his career, it's nice to see the new stuff return to the warm, optimistic landscape that Pat is mostly known for.
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Pat Metheny and Brad Mehldau - "Metheny/Mehldau" (2006)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/43/Metheny_Mehdlau.jpg)
Pat Metheny and Brad Mehldau - "Metheny Mehldau Quartet" (2007)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/Metheny.Mehldau.Quartet.jpg)
Two albums that were released separately but both come from the same sessions recorded in December 2005.
The first, "Metheny Mehldau" is a duet album with Pat and pianist Brad Mehldau,
with a couple of quartet tracks featuring bassist Larry Grenadier, and drummer Jeff Ballard.
The second album, "Metheny Mehldau Quartet" is what it
sounds like, the full band on most tracks (there is one or two duet tracks again on MMQ) Musically I think Pat fits in well with Mehldau's moody approach.
I prefer the Quartet album but I tend to put the other album soon after anyway. It works as a quasi double album. While there are some good moments, these are not albums
I usually grab right away when I want to listen to Pat's music, as the music is a little 'colder' sounding than the usual Metheny fare, but works well when the weather is a bit brisk.
From what I've heard of Mehldau's music, these albums are more similar to his own albums than Pat's. Like I said, a little more cold and wintry-sounding to me.
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Although I haven't had too much time to respond a lot in the last weeks, please keep these posts going :) They are greatly appreciated! Your post about Pat's new album also made me more excited to hear it. Will check it out these days!
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I took a short break from updating this thread after The Way Up, plus I wanted to give Lyle and Pat's new albums some attention, but we're back on the train here.
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Pat Metheny - Day Trip (2008)
w/ Christian McBride & Antonio Sánchez
(https://img.discogs.com/HlqTemb6xXPhfKFHiETAA_cShLw=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2409573-1519991631-3054.jpeg.jpg)
Pat Metheny - Tokyo Day Trip (2008)
w/ Christian McBride & Antonio Sánchez
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/Tokyo.Day.Trip.Pat.Metheny.jpg)
Day Trip is a jazz trio album in line with previous albums like Question and Answer and Trio 99->00, this time featuring Christian McBride on bass and Antonio Sánchez on drums. Aside from a rendition of Pat's "When We Were Free" from the Quartet album, and a rendition of "The Red One" from I Can See Your House From Here, this is all previously unreleased music. Following this was a live EP titled Tokyo Day Trip, which features more new music. Both were released together and separately (the box set with both includes an extra tune on Day Trip "Whatnot")
Overall I like this album, but it's my least favorite of these kind of albums from Pat. To me, it's kind of an 'average' release by Pat's standards. There are some great melodies here and there, and the playing is great of course, expect no less. I just feel like he's released better. Some of the playing seems stiff and clinical at times. My favorite music between both releases is actually on the Tokyo Day Trip album, 2nd and 3rd tracks "Traveling Fast" and "Inori" contain the most interesting music to my ears. The former is high energy, but dynamic post-bop styled contemporary jazz, and the latter is an underrated ballad that no one talks about, with a cool melody as it's main theme. Not surprising since it's live, and I feel like the EP in general has more staying power than the original studio album.
Both are still good albums overall, and more Pat Metheny music is never a bad thing.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WMILNl4PWRM/maxresdefault.jpg)
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Gary Burton - Quartet Live (2009)
with Pat Metheny, Steve Swallow, and Antonio Sánchez
(https://img.discogs.com/Ul3G7H72az7gk_ttx0UXw6xUHxY=/fit-in/600x608/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8666293-1466356427-1333.jpeg.jpg)
Gary Burton reunited with Pat Metheny and Steve Swallow in 2007 for this live album performance, Pat and co. are joined again by Antonio Sánchez, the last PMG drummer before that band dissolved. This album mostly features renditions of tunes that appeared on the mid-1970s Gary Burton albums that feature Pat on guitar, like Ring, Dreams So Real, and Passengers, and some of Pat's tunes from Bright Size Life and Question and Answer; but updated for a more modern sound thanks to Sánchez and Pat's evolved sound since his early days in Gary's band. A solid release, maybe not the most essential listen, but if you like those 70s albums you'll likely enjoy this album. It can be a little boring at times, but other times it's as exciting as anything Pat has been a part of.
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Pat Metheny - Orchestrion (2010)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/Orchestrion.Pat.Metheny.jpg)
Pat Metheny's 2010 release, "Orchestrion" marks the beginning of a new era of Pat Metheny's music. Orchestrion is an album played by Pat's orchestrionics which was created by many different people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrion_(album) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrion_(album)) and is an 'instrument' that he has been using on most of his albums ever since.
The "Orchestrion" includes pianos, marimba, vibraphone, orchestra bells, basses, GuitarBots, percussion, cymbals and drums, blown bottles and other custom mechanical instruments. This is truly something different for Pat, as he is the only human player on the album. Musically, this feels like a proper follow-up to The Way Up, it is the spiritual successor to the later Pat Metheny Group albums, as by this point, the band had pretty much dissolved and broken up. There are many moments on this album that make me think of that band.
The music is also more in the prog-jazz vein as those later PMG albums. Opening with the nearly 16 minute title track, the album kicks off with a bang and never lets up. Moods change, and there is a great payoff towards the end. The piece really shows off the capabilities of mechanics of what Pat is doing (which I'm not even sure what it is, as he somehow controls all the instruments on the album.) Expansion is another title, this one is a really fun tune, and great guitar from Pat here. Some may feel the music sounds 'robotic' to them. While I understand that, and that can be the case on occasion, I like the compositions enough to overlook the fact that it is mostly mechanical instruments performing this music backing up Pat's guitar. There are some great melodies here. Some say since The Way Up, if not since anything released after 1993, Pat's music became a bit cold, clinical sounding and, with exception, was lacking the pop sensibilities that made albums from the 70s, 80s, and early 90s so successful. I don't agree with that 100% but I get it to an extent, as Pat has evolved and is constantly re-inventing himself. I think his most recent output of the last couple of years has been very strong, however, so I'm along for the ride whatever he does. Orchestrion is a good one, maybe not his best album, but a good addition to the canon.
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Wow, I don't think I've ever heard of this album, let alone heard it.
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Listening to the title track now. Very cool stuff! :tup
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Wow, really? It's not necessarily one of his more popular albums, but I recall this album was controversial when released.
Definitely an overlooked album of his, for sure.
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Why was it controversial? I thought it sounded sweet.
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I remember seeing video and reading about "Orchestrion" with a lot of intrigue, and while the process of the album being produced was really unique, the music it self ended up being a bit of Pat Metheny by the numbers to an extent. Per listening to it, I could easily mistaken it for some of his other records.
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Why was it controversial? I thought it sounded sweet.
The fact that the album is like a modern take on the player piano but taken to more of an extreme. I recall at the time people were clamoring for a new Pat Metheny Group album, instead of an album played by a machine/robots; not knowing yet that PMG was done for.
I like this album a lot, it's one of my favorites.
I remember seeing video and reading about "Orchestrion" with a lot of intrigue, and while the process of the album being produced was really unique, the music it self ended up being a bit of Pat Metheny by the numbers to an extent. Per listening to it, I could easily mistaken it for some of his other records.
I wouldn't say it's by-the-numbers, as much as it musically follows the lineage of the last few PMG albums. I could see this being the PMG follow up to The Way Up. However, it'd be hard to mistake this for any of the albums released throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s, what with the lack of South American instrumentation and wordless vocals, denser compositions, etc... but Pat surely had his style of writing, playing, and composition intact by 2010. Pat's melodies also have a way of making you think you've heard it before, not because it sounds like like he's repeating himself, but because it's so catchy and memorable you swear you must have heard this before (but you didn't) I will admit, too, there is a melody in the album that reminds me heavily of "Somewhere Over The Rainbow", I think it's in the second track.
The fact that 90% of the music performed is done with the orchestrionics is surely not by-the-numbers.
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Pat Metheny - What's It All About (2011)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/10/What%27s.It.All.About.Pat.Metheny.jpg)
What's It All About is a solo album by Pat, truly solo, akin to One Quiet Night. The album comprises of all cover tunes, performed by Pat on a multitude of guitars, including the Picasso guitar, and the baritone guitar, but the originals are hardly recognizable, at least the ones I know.
It's not a regular pick, I generally go with world fusion Pat or Superjazz Pat; but the album's mood is highly melancholic, and a bit haunting, and I enjoy it for what it is. This album feels more sombre than OQN. It is an album to put on in a dark, quiet room, perhaps on a stormy evening. Not an album I was that into when it first came out, but it has since grown on me, just like OQN, over the years. The production is quite amazing as well. It's just so clear and Pat's various guitars all sound wonderful, especially on really good speakers.
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Pat Metheny - What's It All About (2011)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/10/What%27s.It.All.About.Pat.Metheny.jpg)
What's It All About is a solo album by Pat, truly solo, akin to One Quiet Night. The album comprises of all cover tunes, performed by Pat on a multitude of guitars, including the Picasso guitar, and the baritone guitar, but the originals are hardly recognizable, at least the ones I know.
It's not a regular pick, I generally go with world fusion Pat or Superjazz Pat; but the album's mood is highly melancholic, and a bit haunting, and I enjoy it for what it is. This album feels more sombre than OQN. It is an album to put on in a dark, quiet room, perhaps on a stormy evening. Not an album I was that into when it first came out, but it has since grown on me, just like OQN, over the years. The production is quite amazing as well. It's just so clear and Pat's various guitars all sound wonderful, especially on really good speakers.
I love this one. Pat is often overseen as a solo-/fingerstyle guitarist. But his solo arrangements are beautiful and very creative. And VERY hard to play, although they might not sound like it. I once tried Don't Know Why while I was still studying guitar. I used to play a lot of finger style stuff. I stopped in the middle of the first verse :lol
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Pat Metheny - Unity Band (2012)
with Chris Potter, Ben Williams, and Antonio Sánchez
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ad/Album.UnityBand.cover.jpg)
Pat's then-new band after the demise of the Pat Metheny Group in the late 2000s. Released in 2012, Antonio Sánchez returns from his stint with PMG and Pat's work with Christian McBride, Chris Potter on sax (Dave Holland, Paul Motian) is the first sax player in a Pat Metheny band since 1980's "80/81" album, and young newcomer to the jazz scene at the time Ben Williams on bass join in as well. This is a jazzier effort than PMG, in that, it isn't as much of a fusion album as much as it's a hard, contemporary jazz album, with some of Pat's effects and the Orchestrionics return here as well. The album features Potter's sax playing which dominates the recording. There are some really great melodies on here, and the band overall sounds really good. I've seen some people call the music by this group to be very clinical sounding, too cold, and lacking the warmth of earlier Pat Metheny records. I would agree to an extent, but the approach here is not like previous albums.
I will admit, Potter's sax playing tends to grate on my ears after a while, so I don't put on this album or its follow up as often as I'd like, especially since I really enjoy Williams' playing against Sánchez's drumming. This album also marks a slight change in Pat's clean guitar tone. It seems like it's almost "hallowed out" or has a far-away feel to it, like it was recorded in a hall and you can almost hear an echo from it. This would continue for the remaining 2010s albums. I think the best tunes here are Roofdogs, Come and See, both have a PMG feel, but a little harder edged, and then Signals (Orchestrion Sketch) which is a longer piece, and Pat's synth guitar makes an appearance during the build up to a fast paced, emotional ride. While this isn't my favorite period for Pat's music, I have to respect his constant evolution and lack of fear from change and trying new things.