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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 09:20:03 AM

Title: *removed for cringe*
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 09:20:03 AM
*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Hyperplex on April 03, 2017, 09:26:44 AM
Find a reputable jeweler you trust, go in with your budget in mind and sit down with him or her to discuss your options. My advice is to avoid places like Zales, Jared, Kay, etc. because they are just chain stores looking to make commissions and sell big movers. I happened to know a family friend who was a jeweler and he personally searched and got me the diamonds from which I could choose. I picked the setting and the metal from a supplier catalog he let me peruse and that was that. One-of-a-kind ring because it wasn't out of a case. He or she will be able to guide you and let you know what you can get for the budget and what will look best.

My personal preferences as far as look is concerned tend towards classy and elegant: simple cuts like round, oval, marquise, or square cushion. I am personally fond of thre-stone rings, which is what I got my wife. I also prefer white metals, like white gold or platinum (white gold is lighter and less expensive; platinum is HEAVY but valuable). Good luck and have fun with it. :)

FYI the "typical" rule of thumb for an engagement ring is 2 months' salary, though I spent quite a bit more than that on my wife's ring. :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: King Postwhore on April 03, 2017, 09:29:09 AM
Good luck with that Brian.  In 1994 I spent $3500.00 on the ring.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2017, 09:31:00 AM
1.  Avoid chains like Hyperplex said.
2.  Find out what she likes.
3.  In the event you do not want to do #2 first or it turns out that you are mistaken or that she just flat out changes her mind, find out what the return/exchange policy is and make sure it is in writing prior to purchase.  Many places assume the guy will pick out something he thinks his future bride will like to surprise her, and that the two of them will then come back and jointly shop for something else as her eventual "forever" ring once the wedding date is closer.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Grappler on April 03, 2017, 09:34:42 AM
Well gals and gents, it's come to the point and time of my life where I want to purchase a ring for my better half. I need pro tips from the more experienced members here. I'm a pretty cheap bastard and I'm limiting myself to $2000.

Discuss.

Unlike the above, I did go to Jared.   :lol    I'd imagine most chain stores have a similar policy, but Jared allows us to bring our paperwork back twice per year to have the rings cleaned, and they also perform an inspection on my wife's rings once per year - all free.  They actually found a broken/damaged prong and fixed it.  If they hadn't, she would have likely lost the diamond once it was loose enough to fall out.   They also have a buy-back policy, so if you keep the paperwork, they can buy back the stone in exchange for a new one, if she wants to upgrade and isn't concerned about keeping the original stone.

I had a really nice experience with a very knowledgeable salesman who helped me stick to my budget (about the same as yours) and give me a basic education of diamonds (cut, color, clarity, etc.) .  Rather than go for size, I opted for quality, getting a 1/2 carat diamond that was nearly perfect with only two minor imperfections.  My wife had told me the type of ring she wanted (small baguette/side-stone diamonds) and we found something that I liked (and she did too, once I proposed).

My wife isn't big on jewelry and has small hands/fingers, so the smaller stone looks nice.  Sure, she'd love to be able to say that she has a 1-2 carat diamond to show off, but the stone would look so gaudy on her hand and she'd always be concerned about knocking it into stuff and breaking the prongs or losing the diamond.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 09:34:52 AM
*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Grappler on April 03, 2017, 09:36:55 AM
Do people really follow that two month salary rule? That seems absolutely insane to me. I can't imagine buying a ring for  more than $12K. I'm unable to wrap my head around that. Two months salary is like half of what I bought a new loaded Mini Cooper for.

I didn't.  I think it's bullshit - my wife and I both have a similar financial belief that you should only buy what you think you can afford.  We were saving for a house at the time, so why take money away from that goal just to have a big, expensive ring?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: King Postwhore on April 03, 2017, 09:39:13 AM
Quality of the diamond matters.  ask about the grading and sneak around to find out if your gal likes raise or a lowered diamond.  Ask her family members or friends you can trust not to spill the beans.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 03, 2017, 09:39:38 AM
Literally every tradition that exists in Western society: Chino can't believe it/doesn't agree with it/doesn't see the point.

Consistency is important.

BTW, I got my wife's ring at Zales, spent about a grand (times were tough), and had a great experience, and the wife was thrilled.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 09:40:57 AM
Do people really follow that two month salary rule? That seems absolutely insane to me. I can't imagine buying a ring for  more than $12K. I'm unable to wrap my head around that. Two months salary is like half of what I bought a new loaded Mini Cooper for.

I didn't.  I think it's bullshit - my wife and I both have a similar financial belief that you should only buy what you think you can afford.  We were saving for a house at the time, so why take money away from that goal just to have a big, expensive ring?
*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 09:45:30 AM
Literally every tradition that exists in Western society: Chino can't believe it/doesn't agree with it/doesn't see the point.

*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 09:48:46 AM
Quality of the diamond matters.  ask about the grading and sneak around to find out if your gal likes raise or a lowered diamond.  Ask her family members or friends you can trust not to spill the beans.

Luckily, she has a Pintrest page titled "incase I ever say I do" that's nothing but wedding rings. I have a good template to go by. As for talking to her family members, they will be in the dark until the deed is done. Her entire family is a never ending circle of gossip. Her mother and sisters won't keep their mouths shut, and I don't plan on asking her dad for permission.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Hyperplex on April 03, 2017, 09:49:57 AM
I am of the belief that the intent and emotion in the giving of the ring outweigh the price tag or the size of the stone. If you love her and she you, the ring is merely symbolic, in which case you should always buy what you are comfortable purchasing. My wife has always said she loves the ring but I could have given her aluminum foil and she would have said yes. That is what matters, not the money put into a piece of jewelry.

I made a personal choice to spare no expense on the ring because it was important *to me* to do it. It was part of the meaning, the symbol. It's what I wanted to do for my wife, and I am lucky that she is not the kind of person to place any sort of demand on that. And that's why I love her.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 03, 2017, 09:55:26 AM
Wow...that's big news Brian, congrats!!  :tup   I won't give you any horror stories about marriage because frankly I don't have any to give. Personally, I've been pretty blessed up to this point (this June is 12 years) to have a pretty solid marriage and partner. So, I'm happy to hear this is on the horizon for you!



I didn't adhere to the two month salary deal. I budgeted $2500, saved up that much then found a ring that fit that budget...If I recall correctly I ended up spending $2200 for the ring.

I wanted to surprise my now wife with the ring and the whole proposal, so to make sure I picked a ring she'd like I took her two sisters ring shopping with me. We went to several different jewelers and educated ourselves on the different clarity's and what not....we found a style that we all agreed my wife would like and from there it was a matter of finding the right diamond for the right price. So, if you're looking to surprise Victoria with the whole process...maybe if she has sisters or her mother could help you narrow down what she'd like?

Edit: didn't see the 'keep family members in dark comment before posting'.   the Pinterest page should do the trick for you.

Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Hyperplex on April 03, 2017, 09:59:43 AM
What's funny is when my wife and I started talking about the possibility of marriage and all that, I asked her what kind of ring she'd like. She responded that she wanted a yellow gold band with a heart-shaped diamond.

After I stared blankly for a few seconds, I politely informed her that I will not buy her a heart-shaped diamond with a yellow gold band, shared a laugh together, and moved on.

Several years later I picked out the ring and did the usual shenanigans with proposing, and after the fact I asked her, as she looked at her ring, if she would have preferred her heart-shaped diamond, to which she replied she's very glad she let me design and pick the ring, because looking at the one I got made her hate her original idea. :tup
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: El Barto on April 03, 2017, 10:00:24 AM
Quality of the diamond matters.  ask about the grading and sneak around to find out if your gal likes raise or a lowered diamond.  Ask her family members or friends you can trust not to spill the beans.

Luckily, she has a Pintrest page titled "incase I ever say I do" that's nothing but wedding rings. I have a good template to go by. As for talking to her family members, they will be in the dark until the deed is done. Her entire family is a never ending circle of gossip. Her mother and sisters won't keep their mouths shut, and I don't plan on asking her dad for permission.
Heh, is there a story there that we might find entertaining?  :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 03, 2017, 10:10:19 AM
I don't plan on asking her dad for permission.

I'm curious about this one? Is it to 'buck' tradition? If I'm being to nosy just tell me to mind my own F'n business....but I always considered this one of the 'cooler' traditions and looked forward to this near as much as the actual proposal.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: rumborak on April 03, 2017, 10:12:16 AM
Literally every tradition that exists in Western society: Chino can't believe it/doesn't agree with it/doesn't see the point.

Consistency is important.

True, but at the same time it's one of those aspects where you realize that humanity as a whole is hogtied in many ways. I have NEVER heard a single person not say that diamonds are an overpriced racket not worth the money, yet they all buy it. Same with the metric system; I have yet to meet an American who doesn't say "yeah, Imperial is stupid and probably holds us back", but everybody continues the old way.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Kotowboy on April 03, 2017, 10:13:59 AM
Give her an onion ring and say " well. things can only get better eh ! "
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 10:17:39 AM
Quality of the diamond matters.  ask about the grading and sneak around to find out if your gal likes raise or a lowered diamond.  Ask her family members or friends you can trust not to spill the beans.

Luckily, she has a Pintrest page titled "incase I ever say I do" that's nothing but wedding rings. I have a good template to go by. As for talking to her family members, they will be in the dark until the deed is done. Her entire family is a never ending circle of gossip. Her mother and sisters won't keep their mouths shut, and I don't plan on asking her dad for permission.
Heh, is there a story there that we might find entertaining?  :lol
*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Hyperplex on April 03, 2017, 10:19:42 AM
Given the nature of how my wife's family works, I basically asked her mother for the blessing, with her father there basically as an honorary attendee (he surrendered his spine, testicles, and any say in any decision ever when he married his wife). He would have been easy to ask; her mother was the obstacle, though obviously, and thankfully, it went well.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: vtgrad on April 03, 2017, 10:22:11 AM
Blue Nile treated me right... you pick the stone first based on your own guidelines and research (which they promptly have on-site); the experience was so good that I've bought several other "chunks of carbon" from them  :biggrin:.

In my opinion, do the research and clean the ring yourself if you find the occasion to clean it necessary.

If the stone has a good edge on it, carve your initials into the glasses you use during your ceremony (careful not to break of course).

Congrats by the way...
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 10:25:57 AM
*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 03, 2017, 10:40:39 AM
Quality of the diamond matters.  ask about the grading and sneak around to find out if your gal likes raise or a lowered diamond.  Ask her family members or friends you can trust not to spill the beans.

Luckily, she has a Pintrest page titled "incase I ever say I do" that's nothing but wedding rings. I have a good template to go by. As for talking to her family members, they will be in the dark until the deed is done. Her entire family is a never ending circle of gossip. Her mother and sisters won't keep their mouths shut, and I don't plan on asking her dad for permission.
Heh, is there a story there that we might find entertaining?  :lol

This is only going to reinforce Hef's earlier statement, but I just don't see the point or the need to. Long gone are the days where a man's daughter is basically his property and one literally has to ask for him to give her up (usually in an exchange that benefitted him). His daughter is a grown woman who's been living under my roof for 2.5 years already. In my mind, the permission, blessing, whatever you want to call it has already been granted.

I realize this thread makes me come off as a huge asshole, but it's just where my head is at. There are very few things in life that get under my skin more than doing something for no reason other than the sake of tradition. Her family is going to be massively involved in the wedding, and many of our decisions for that day are going to revolve around them and not necessarily what we'd prefer to do. I'm going to have to get on an altar and say stuff to god and eat Jesus on their behalf. This is an important day for me as well. Call it selfish, but I want a little sliver of the process to go my way as well, and that means keeping it a secret at all costs and not asking her father permission.

The ring and the proposal are going to be the only things throughout this entire process that I will have control over, and I want to do it the way I'd like. Once the planning of the day starts, basically everything is going to boil down to what Victoria, her mom, her sisters, and her aunts want. I will have little say, and the say I do have I'll keep bottled up inside so she can have the day she wants.
I maintained 50% control of everything involved in our wedding.  I gave up nothing, and certainly didn't defer to mothers or other relatives.

We picked out colors, flowers, music, food, EVERYTHING, together, and no one else got a vote.  I only intended to get married once, and it was sure as hell not going to include any elements that I didn't approve of or consent to.

Friendly advice: despite the fact that she's been living with you already, you run a risk of pissing her dad off if you don't ask his permission.  Up to you, of course, but it seems like kind of a strange thing over which to risk potential family strife.  Speaking as a man with a 21 year old daughter, if any future fiance of hers doesn't ask MY permission, he shall know of my disdain for his lack of respect.

Of course, you know him, so you know if he is traditionally minded or not.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2017, 10:42:00 AM
Just occurred to me we are going to be at Pandora: The World of Avatar on the 4 year anniversary of us meeting :chino:

Well...why wouldn't you?  :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2017, 10:45:49 AM
Friendly advice: despite the fact that she's been living with you already, you run a risk of pissing her dad off if you don't ask his permission.  Up to you, of course, but it seems like kind of a strange thing over which to risk potential family strife.  Speaking as a man with a 21 year old daughter, if any future fiance of hers doesn't ask MY permission, he shall know of my disdain for his lack of respect.

Of course, you know him, so you know if he is traditionally minded or not.

Yeah, I was going to offer something along somewhat-similar lines:  I wouldn't view it as necessarily asking his "permission," but more as you just showing "respect" to him as a member of her family.  I might suggest something along the lines of just having a conversation with him and telling him something along the lines of what you said above.  Tell him that, for your own reasons, you think the tradition of asking permission is outdated and doesn't really fit out society or your specific relationship, but that, notwithstanding that, you can understand and appreciate that it could potentially matter to some people, and as a show of respect for the fact that, in essence, the two of you are merging your two families together, you wanted to express your intentions to him.  Not as asking permission, but, again, as a show of mutual respect.  Or something along those lines.  Just something to think about. 
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 10:51:59 AM
Quality of the diamond matters.  ask about the grading and sneak around to find out if your gal likes raise or a lowered diamond.  Ask her family members or friends you can trust not to spill the beans.

Luckily, she has a Pintrest page titled "incase I ever say I do" that's nothing but wedding rings. I have a good template to go by. As for talking to her family members, they will be in the dark until the deed is done. Her entire family is a never ending circle of gossip. Her mother and sisters won't keep their mouths shut, and I don't plan on asking her dad for permission.
Heh, is there a story there that we might find entertaining?  :lol

*snip*

I maintained 50% control of everything involved in our wedding.  I gave up nothing, and certainly didn't defer to mothers or other relatives.

We picked out colors, flowers, music, food, EVERYTHING, together, and no one else got a vote.  I only intended to get married once, and it was sure as hell not going to include any elements that I didn't approve of or consent to.

Friendly advice: despite the fact that she's been living with you already, you run a risk of pissing her dad off if you don't ask his permission.  Up to you, of course, but it seems like kind of a strange thing over which to risk potential family strife.  Speaking as a man with a 21 year old daughter, if any future fiance of hers doesn't ask MY permission, he shall know of my disdain for his lack of respect.

Of course, you know him, so you know if he is traditionally minded or not.

What would you consider disrespectful about it? I'm not trying to bait here, I'm genuinely curious. I'm failing to understand why another grown man would need your permission to ask your adult daughter to make an adult decision on her own. Based on your activity here and on Facebook, I'm guessing your daughter has a very good head on her shoulders and sound decision making abilities. She can decide whether she wants to marry someone with or without your consent.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Kotowboy on April 03, 2017, 10:52:44 AM
Just occurred to me we are going to be at Pandora: The World of Avatar on the 4 year anniversary of us meeting :chino:

Well...why wouldn't you?  :lol

Chino's watch is always set to pandora time ! ;)
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Elite on April 03, 2017, 10:53:04 AM
I first read the thread title as 'carton' and wondered what the hell you were up to now :lol

I have no experience, so I have nothing constructive to add to the thread, but congrats on your decision to ask her to marry you regardless. I wish you all the best :) :tup
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 03, 2017, 10:58:34 AM
First off - congratulations! I've seen you post stuff about your girlfriend before, and it seems like you guys are good for each other.

I'll echo what has already been said based on my experience as a fiance, husband, and father of a daughter (albeit a young one).

- Find a good, local, family jeweler, not a chain store.

- I did not spend 2 months salary, and I agree with you, that's crazy to me.

- Ask her dad. You stand to gain nothing from not asking his permission, you stand to lose something by not. Just play it safe.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Grappler on April 03, 2017, 10:59:01 AM
Friendly advice: despite the fact that she's been living with you already, you run a risk of pissing her dad off if you don't ask his permission.  Up to you, of course, but it seems like kind of a strange thing over which to risk potential family strife.  Speaking as a man with a 21 year old daughter, if any future fiance of hers doesn't ask MY permission, he shall know of my disdain for his lack of respect.

Of course, you know him, so you know if he is traditionally minded or not.

Yeah, I was going to offer something along somewhat-similar lines:  I wouldn't view it as necessarily asking his "permission," but more as you just showing "respect" to him as a member of her family.  I might suggest something along the lines of just having a conversation with him and telling him something along the lines of what you said above.  Tell him that, for your own reasons, you think the tradition of asking permission is outdated and doesn't really fit out society or your specific relationship, but that, notwithstanding that, you can understand and appreciate that it could potentially matter to some people, and as a show of respect for the fact that, in essence, the two of you are merging your two families together, you wanted to express your intentions to him.  Not as asking permission, but, again, as a show of mutual respect.  Or something along those lines.  Just something to think about.

On another note, sometimes dads don't earn that respect that they want to receive by asking for permission.  Why should I have shown respect to someone that doesn't treat their own daughter with respect?

This is one of two reasons that I didn't ask my wife's dad for his permission.  The other is that I didn't need it, either from her dad or her stepdad.  I love my wife, their approval or disapproval isn't going to change my decision - I'd marry her even if either of them would have said no.

I have a daughter.  When she's older, I'd like for the guy to ask me, but I'm not going to be upset if he doesn't.  It's just an outdated tradition.



Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Zook on April 03, 2017, 11:04:33 AM
Do people really follow that two month salary rule? That seems absolutely insane to me. I can't imagine buying a ring for more than $12K. I'm unable to wrap my head around that. Two months salary is like half of what I bought a new loaded Mini Cooper for.

Your 2 month salary is $12,000, and you're still a cheap bastard?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 03, 2017, 11:05:25 AM
What would you consider disrespectful about it? I'm not trying to bait here, I'm genuinely curious. I'm failing to understand why another grown man would need your permission to ask your adult daughter to make an adult decision on her own. Based on your activity here and on Facebook, I'm guessing your daughter has a very good head on her shoulders and sound decision making abilities. She can decide whether she wants to marry someone with or without your consent.

I don't have daughters, but I do have kids. And I think once you have kids (if that's what you guys decide to do) you will understand it on a different level. Your reasoning behind why you don't see the need to 'ask permission' is perfectly logical. But, you have to keep in mind that Victoria is that mans daughter, someone he has cared for...nurtured...worried about....laughed with....watched grow up, on and on. Certainly he's proud of who she's become and knows she has the right to choose who she marries and that she's a grown person. But the 'respect' being hinted at is just that. It'd show respect to a man who has sacrificed and dedicated his life essentially to making sure his daughter had every opportunity to succeed, had love..had it all.

It wouldn't be a 'please can I marry your daughter'. It'd be a 'thank you for raising such an incredible person, so incredible in fact that I want to spend the rest of my life with her'.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Kotowboy on April 03, 2017, 11:05:35 AM
Just do what I do !!

Be unattractive, boring worthless and annoying af !!! Nobody will want you !!!

Wedding ring stores will go bankrupt !!!

U MAD BRAH ?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 11:13:16 AM
Do people really follow that two month salary rule? That seems absolutely insane to me. I can't imagine buying a ring for more than $12K. I'm unable to wrap my head around that. Two months salary is like half of what I bought a new loaded Mini Cooper for.

Your 2 month salary is $12,000, and you're still a cheap bastard?

*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Orbert on April 03, 2017, 11:38:36 AM
It is indeed a ridiculous tradition.  My then-girlfriend (now wife) and I did the somewhat modern thing and went shopping for rings together.  I told her up front that I am not the type to spending thousands of dollars on a piece of jewelry whose dollar value is somehow symbolic for "how much she means to me".  I didn't have a couple grand to spend in the first place, and I could not justify spending that much on a ring anyway, so I had no intention of saving up the required money either.  She would therefore have to face the fact that either she's not getting a chunk of carbon worth thousands of dollars, or she's marrying someone else.  She still wanted to marry me.

We got a cubic zirconia.  A fake.  A couple hundred buck.  1.25 carats, looks awesome, and we never told anyone that it wasn't a real diamond.  Her friends thought it was awesome, her friends thought I was awesome, her mom already thought I was awesome, and all was fine with the world.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Dr. DTVT on April 03, 2017, 12:07:22 PM
For a while the industry was trying to get people to go to three months salary.  Glad that didn't catch on.

I would see if she insists on a diamond.  Honestly, I see it as a test of their practicality and worldliness.

DeBeers is one of the most god-awful corporations ever on the face of the planet, and have a near monopoly (estimates are 95+% of jewelry grade diamonds originate from DeBeers) on jewelry grade diamonds.  You've heard of blood diamonds I assume?  Even beyond the notorious shitty treatment of their essentially slave labor, the other way they became the near monopoly is that they simply eliminated competition.  Think guns, bombs, extortion...everything you think of when you think of the Mafia.  Diamonds are not as rare as jewelers want you to believe.  There are places that have tons of diamonds, but they don't put them on the jewelers market because of non-compete contracts with DeBeers that are essentially permanent and transfer to new owners when the mine is sold (In Perpetuity clauses).  I wouldn't want to give them a red cent, even indirectly.

More people than you think have opted for cubic zirconia and other less costly gemstones, and there is a growing movement to do away with gemstones all together.  Being the independent thinker you are, don't let social norms dictate you on an issue that causes no one harm.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 03, 2017, 12:09:05 PM
Quality of the diamond matters.  ask about the grading and sneak around to find out if your gal likes raise or a lowered diamond.  Ask her family members or friends you can trust not to spill the beans.

Luckily, she has a Pintrest page titled "incase I ever say I do" that's nothing but wedding rings. I have a good template to go by. As for talking to her family members, they will be in the dark until the deed is done. Her entire family is a never ending circle of gossip. Her mother and sisters won't keep their mouths shut, and I don't plan on asking her dad for permission.
Heh, is there a story there that we might find entertaining?  :lol

*snip*

I maintained 50% control of everything involved in our wedding.  I gave up nothing, and certainly didn't defer to mothers or other relatives.

We picked out colors, flowers, music, food, EVERYTHING, together, and no one else got a vote.  I only intended to get married once, and it was sure as hell not going to include any elements that I didn't approve of or consent to.

Friendly advice: despite the fact that she's been living with you already, you run a risk of pissing her dad off if you don't ask his permission.  Up to you, of course, but it seems like kind of a strange thing over which to risk potential family strife.  Speaking as a man with a 21 year old daughter, if any future fiance of hers doesn't ask MY permission, he shall know of my disdain for his lack of respect.

Of course, you know him, so you know if he is traditionally minded or not.

What would you consider disrespectful about it? I'm not trying to bait here, I'm genuinely curious. I'm failing to understand why another grown man would need your permission to ask your adult daughter to make an adult decision on her own. Based on your activity here and on Facebook, I'm guessing your daughter has a very good head on her shoulders and sound decision making abilities. She can decide whether she wants to marry someone with or without your consent.
"Permission" is just a word.  It's not like "withholding permission" will mean she can't get married.

But, kind of like Gary said, I have been the man to take responsibility for her, to provide for her, and to support her when she needs it (which, due to multiple reasons, has been substantial).  Once she gets married, I won't completely stop doing all of those things, necessarily, but I will no longer be the primary responsible person - YOU will ("You" meaning the prospective husband).  Asking My permission is showing me the respect to let me know that I can rest assured that my daughter will be in good hands with you, since I will no longer be the #1 man in her life.

Again, it's not about the word "permission", it's about showing respect to your future father-in-law.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 03, 2017, 12:20:07 PM
Quality of the diamond matters.  ask about the grading and sneak around to find out if your gal likes raise or a lowered diamond.  Ask her family members or friends you can trust not to spill the beans.

Luckily, she has a Pintrest page titled "incase I ever say I do" that's nothing but wedding rings. I have a good template to go by. As for talking to her family members, they will be in the dark until the deed is done. Her entire family is a never ending circle of gossip. Her mother and sisters won't keep their mouths shut, and I don't plan on asking her dad for permission.
Heh, is there a story there that we might find entertaining?  :lol

This is only going to reinforce Hef's earlier statement, but I just don't see the point or the need to. Long gone are the days where a man's daughter is basically his property and one literally has to ask for him to give her up (usually in an exchange that benefitted him). His daughter is a grown woman who's been living under my roof for 2.5 years already. In my mind, the permission, blessing, whatever you want to call it has already been granted.

I realize this thread makes me come off as a huge asshole, but it's just where my head is at. There are very few things in life that get under my skin more than doing something for no reason other than the sake of tradition. Her family is going to be massively involved in the wedding, and many of our decisions for that day are going to revolve around them and not necessarily what we'd prefer to do. I'm going to have to get on an altar and say stuff to god and eat Jesus on their behalf. This is an important day for me as well. Call it selfish, but I want a little sliver of the process to go my way as well, and that means keeping it a secret at all costs and not asking her father permission.

The ring and the proposal are going to be the only things throughout this entire process that I will have control over, and I want to do it the way I'd like. Once the planning of the day starts, basically everything is going to boil down to what Victoria, her mom, her sisters, and her aunts want. I will have little say, and the say I do have I'll keep bottled up inside so she can have the day she wants.

Chino, far be it for me, and all that... but I'm divorced and remarried.  My now wife was divorced with three kids (one out of high school) when I met her, and her old husband was an abusive (more mental and verbal) dick.  Her youngest is on the spectrum, and there was at least one suitor who said "You're the bomb (she's smart and a former beauty pageant winner, no shit) but I can't deal with the kids".    So when it came time, I wanted to send a clear message, both to her and her parents.   I asked both mom and dad for permission, more out of respect for them and their family than any literal "she's your property" kind of thing.   

You be you, and I certainly understand your position - clearly - but one thing I've learned through two marriages (and two weddings) is that no matter how hard you try, some of these things are not about you (or your bride).   

The ring is the same thing; you both may profess to not care (though if she has a pinterest page with that, trust me, bro, SHE CARES) but all it takes is one or two comments a year down the road ("Oh, that's so cute! I've never seen a diamond quite that small before!") to change that.    I've done it both ways; I went to private guy the first time, and I went to Zales the second (though the second is a less traditional 'wedding ring' and we did it after the ceremony).  I asked for the manager and did my homework, and basically asked them to get close to a deal I would get from an independent.  If you have the right person (the person that can make the deal) and you approach it the right way, you can get a decent deal from a chain.

Oh, and congratulations!  I'm very happy for you (sincerely).   
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 03, 2017, 12:33:47 PM
What would you consider disrespectful about it? I'm not trying to bait here, I'm genuinely curious. I'm failing to understand why another grown man would need your permission to ask your adult daughter to make an adult decision on her own. Based on your activity here and on Facebook, I'm guessing your daughter has a very good head on her shoulders and sound decision making abilities. She can decide whether she wants to marry someone with or without your consent.

I don't have daughters, but I do have kids. And I think once you have kids (if that's what you guys decide to do) you will understand it on a different level. Your reasoning behind why you don't see the need to 'ask permission' is perfectly logical. But, you have to keep in mind that Victoria is that mans daughter, someone he has cared for...nurtured...worried about....laughed with....watched grow up, on and on. Certainly he's proud of who she's become and knows she has the right to choose who she marries and that she's a grown person. But the 'respect' being hinted at is just that. It'd show respect to a man who has sacrificed and dedicated his life essentially to making sure his daughter had every opportunity to succeed, had love..had it all.

It wouldn't be a 'please can I marry your daughter'. It'd be a 'thank you for raising such an incredible person, so incredible in fact that I want to spend the rest of my life with her'.

My daughter is 16, and in boarding school. I'm already feeling a little... despondent that she doesn't need her daddy anymore.   My issue, I get it, but when it comes time for her to take that next step, I can guarantee you, if he doesn't come ask, it will be logged and remembered.  I WAS a decent parent, I DID earn the respect, and if he doesn't know that about our family, then he doesn't know enough to have the PRIVILEGE of my daughter's hand in marriage.

Old fashioned? Yes.  Naïve?  Perhaps.  Rather irrational?  Sure.   Am I kidding? Not one bit.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: TAC on April 03, 2017, 12:46:28 PM
I don't think there's any need to give the old man a heads up. None.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 03, 2017, 12:54:52 PM
Once the planning of the day starts, basically everything is going to boil down to what Victoria, her mom, her sisters, and her aunts want. I will have little say, and the say I do have I'll keep bottled up inside so she can have the day she wants.

This is the kind of bullshit that makes me so very angry at the idea of "weddings".  Basically it's a day where everybody celebrates the woman and the man is a complete afterthought, despite being half of the couple.  The fact that you would, for one second, have to submit to what her mother, sisters, or aunts want for a day that is as much yours as it is hers, is asinine, with all due respect.  And it happens ALL THE TIME.  This is why when Mrs. C. and I got married, we said "We're going to the Caribbean and getting married on a beach, for anybody that can afford to join us, you're welcome to do so.  If you can't, sorry about your luck."  The only concession we made was choosing a slightly less expensive resort to have it at, so that anyone who DID decide to go would not have to spend AS much, but that was not really even an issue.  The place was perfect for us.

As far ask asking for a blessing/"permission", eh.  I think it's ridiculous also, and I don't think for one second that having a child of my own would change that.  If I did and the guy was good to her and made her happy, then their choice to marry has nothing to do with me.  You'll prove your respect for me by treating her good enough that she never wants to come back home.  I get what people are saying, they put their time in to raise her, etc., but that had nothing to do with you.  They chose to be parents and raise a child, completely independent of your existence.  The parents having chosen to raise a child doesn't (in my opinion) merit a requirement that a person ask for parental input on a decision that they, as two consenting adults, are going to enter into anyway.

THAT SAID - my opinion is on the expected tradition that "thou shalt ask the father".  If she has ANY sort of expectation of you as far as the "dad talk" goes, you have to determine if not doing so is going to upset her in ANY way.  Mrs. C. and I knew we would be getting married at some point, so I got my expectations out of the way long before we got engaged, by just outright asking if the dad talk was an expectation of hers.  She thought it was as asinine an idea as I did and that was that.  If she HAD expected me to do so, despite my not seeing the point, I'd have done it.  Not for him, but to lessen the amount of disappointment on her part.

And this whole 2 months' salary thing is a fucking scam.  Complete madness.  If I spent two months' salary on a ring, that would be that much less to put towards the ACTUAL wedding (and don't get me started on the absolutely stupid amount of money that people literally THROW AWAY for a few hours worth of their time on their wedding day), a honeymoon, a down payment on a home, furnishing expenses, or savings for an emergency.  Ridiculous.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: King Postwhore on April 03, 2017, 12:56:34 PM
I think that depends on the relationship your fiance and you have with the future in laws.

I wanted to show them the ring and went to my future mother in law's work. (I used to work there)  She was not there and 2 people there saw the ring.  She got word of it and then when we were coming up on 3 years dating, she purposely let it out I had the ring.

Of course I through off the now wife about it and she was completely surprised when I asked her but I will never forgive her mother for doing that.  It was vindictive.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 03, 2017, 01:00:53 PM
It really is amazing what emotionally irrational assholes people can become where weddings are involved.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: King Postwhore on April 03, 2017, 01:03:48 PM
The stories I could tell you Coz about her family would make you a murderer.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 03, 2017, 01:05:11 PM
Once the planning of the day starts, basically everything is going to boil down to what Victoria, her mom, her sisters, and her aunts want. I will have little say, and the say I do have I'll keep bottled up inside so she can have the day she wants.

This is the kind of bullshit that makes me so very angry at the idea of "weddings".  Basically it's a day where everybody celebrates the woman and the man is a complete afterthought, despite being half of the couple.  The fact that you would, for one second, have to submit to what her mother, sisters, or aunts want for a day that is as much yours as it is hers, is asinine, with all due respect.  And it happens ALL THE TIME.  This is why when Mrs. C. and I got married, we said "We're going to the Caribbean and getting married on a beach, for anybody that can afford to join us, you're welcome to do so.  If you can't, sorry about your luck."  The only concession we made was choosing a slightly less expensive resort to have it at, so that anyone who DID decide to go would not have to spend AS much, but that was not really even an issue.  The place was perfect for us.

As far ask asking for a blessing/"permission", eh.  I think it's ridiculous also, and I don't think for one second that having a child of my own would change that.  If I did and the guy was good to her and made her happy, then their choice to marry has nothing to do with me.  You'll prove your respect for me by treating her good enough that she never wants to come back home.  I get what people are saying, they put their time in to raise her, etc., but that had nothing to do with you.  They chose to be parents and raise a child, completely independent of your existence.  The parents having chosen to raise a child doesn't (in my opinion) merit a requirement that a person ask for parental input on a decision that they, as two consenting adults, are going to enter into anyway.

THAT SAID - my opinion is on the expected tradition that "thou shalt ask the father".  If she has ANY sort of expectation of you as far as the "dad talk" goes, you have to determine if not doing so is going to upset her in ANY way.  Mrs. C. and I knew we would be getting married at some point, so I got my expectations out of the way long before we got engaged, by just outright asking if the dad talk was an expectation of hers.  She thought it was as asinine an idea as I did and that was that.  If she HAD expected me to do so, despite my not seeing the point, I'd have done it.  Not for him, but to lessen the amount of disappointment on her part.

And this whole 2 months' salary thing is a fucking scam.  Complete madness.  If I spent two months' salary on a ring, that would be that much less to put towards the ACTUAL wedding (and don't get me started on the absolutely stupid amount of money that people literally THROW AWAY for a few hours worth of their time on their wedding day), a honeymoon, a down payment on a home, furnishing expenses, or savings for an emergency.  Ridiculous.

But what's underlying your whole post - which I'm not at all disagreeing with - is that that's all your opinion, and, presumably, your wife's.   You have to read the situation.   What's "rational" and what's "emotionally enduring" are two different things.  If you're good with that, no one - not even me ;) - can say otherwise.  If she's NOT going to harbor a grudge over the sand-speck size diamond, then go for it.  If she's NOT going to always wonder why you didn't respect her enough to give her that day (I don't mean you Coz; I'm speaking generally; I did what you did for both my weddings), then go for it.  if the family is NOT going to wonder if you're a disrespectful deadbeat for not asking Dad, then go for it.

There's no right answer in any of this.  It's all about being honest with yourself, but more important, your partner being honest with you. 
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 03, 2017, 01:05:50 PM
It really is amazing what emotionally irrational assholes people can become where weddings are involved.

WORD. 
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 01:06:06 PM
Quality of the diamond matters.  ask about the grading and sneak around to find out if your gal likes raise or a lowered diamond.  Ask her family members or friends you can trust not to spill the beans.

Luckily, she has a Pintrest page titled "incase I ever say I do" that's nothing but wedding rings. I have a good template to go by. As for talking to her family members, they will be in the dark until the deed is done. Her entire family is a never ending circle of gossip. Her mother and sisters won't keep their mouths shut, and I don't plan on asking her dad for permission.
Heh, is there a story there that we might find entertaining?  :lol

*snip*

*snippy*[/b]

Of course, you know him, so you know if he is traditionally minded or not.

*snip*
"Permission" is just a word.  It's not like "withholding permission" will mean she can't get married.

But, kind of like Gary said, I have been the man to take responsibility for her, to provide for her, and to support her when she needs it (which, due to multiple reasons, has been substantial). Once she gets married, I won't completely stop doing all of those things, necessarily, but I will no longer be the primary responsible person - YOU will ("You" meaning the prospective husband).  Asking My permission is showing me the respect to let me know that I can rest assured that my daughter will be in good hands with you, since I will no longer be the #1 man in her life.

Again, it's not about the word "permission", it's about showing respect to your future father-in-law.

*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: TAC on April 03, 2017, 01:07:53 PM
He should ask you permission to be your father in law!
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 01:19:10 PM
Once the planning of the day starts, basically everything is going to boil down to what Victoria, her mom, her sisters, and her aunts want. I will have little say, and the say I do have I'll keep bottled up inside so she can have the day she wants.

This is the kind of bullshit that makes me so very angry at the idea of "weddings".  Basically it's a day where everybody celebrates the woman and the man is a complete afterthought, despite being half of the couple.  The fact that you would, for one second, have to submit to what her mother, sisters, or aunts want for a day that is as much yours as it is hers, is asinine, with all due respect.  And it happens ALL THE TIME.  This is why when Mrs. C. and I got married, we said "We're going to the Caribbean and getting married on a beach, for anybody that can afford to join us, you're welcome to do so.  If you can't, sorry about your luck."  The only concession we made was choosing a slightly less expensive resort to have it at, so that anyone who DID decide to go would not have to spend AS much, but that was not really even an issue.  The place was perfect for us.
*snip*

Between you, me, and the internet, I don't have much of a desire to be involved in the planning. Though, a lot of that might stem from the fact that I'd have to work around all the women whispering in her ear the whole time. I'd actually love to give input, but I'd rather just preemptively bow out than have to argue and lose later. Ideally, in my perfect world, we'd go to a court house, sign some stuff, throw a ridiculous pig roast rager at no cost to our guests, and then take off for two weeks, but I guess that's not romantic enough  ::)

I basically gave Victoria a list of 5 things I want at the wedding and told her she could do whatever she wanted for the rest. How many of these will come to fruition is anyone's guess  :lol

*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: King Postwhore on April 03, 2017, 01:19:44 PM
He may just love that you show him the ring once you get it.  A bonding moment Brian.  Sounds like you have a great relationship with him.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 03, 2017, 01:21:02 PM
I hear you. In our situation, this seems irrelevant though. Maybe that's why I feel like it's more smoke and mirrors than it is about showing actual respect.
I get it, and again, I don't know the guy (or your girl) and you do.

But this is another thing that isn't about you or what you think.  Will your lady or her father be upset, even a little, if you don't do this?  That is the only thing that matters.

Safest thing is to ask her what she thinks about it.  But either way, asking her dad will at the very least give you more brownie points with the in-laws, and it will give the appearance that you are a man of class, integrity, and thoughtfulness.  There's no downside to it, only upside.

That's all I've got.  Congratulations, pal!

EDIT: WTF at that groomsmen request.  I don't blame her for being mortified.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 03, 2017, 01:23:38 PM
But what's underlying your whole post - which I'm not at all disagreeing with - is that that's all your opinion, and, presumably, your wife's.   You have to read the situation.   What's "rational" and what's "emotionally enduring" are two different things.  If you're good with that, no one - not even me ;) - can say otherwise.  If she's NOT going to harbor a grudge over the sand-speck size diamond, then go for it.  If she's NOT going to always wonder why you didn't respect her enough to give her that day (I don't mean you Coz; I'm speaking generally; I did what you did for both my weddings), then go for it.  if the family is NOT going to wonder if you're a disrespectful deadbeat for not asking Dad, then go for it.

There's no right answer in any of this.  It's all about being honest with yourself, but more important, your partner being honest with you. 

The bolded part is where everyone gets into trouble.  By assigning emotional value to the meaningless checking off of boxes.

Talked to dad - Check
Spent 2 months salary on a decoration rather than 5 mortgage payments - Check
Put another 2 months' salary (or more) on credit cards for decorations, cake, dinner, and an open bar for all my friends and family - Check

Going through impractical motions at someone else's insistence.  The ONLY person who you should "go through the motions" for (for lack of a better term) is your woman.  Meaning if you're going to go about doing things that you have no interest in, but will do anyway to make someone happy, then it should be her, not her mom, or dad, or sisters, or cat, or whatever.

I basically gave Victoria a list of 5 things I want at the wedding and told her she could do whatever she wanted for the rest. How many of these will come to fruition is anyone's guess  :lol

1) Our dance will be to the BTTF version of Earth Angel
2) Self-serve eat when you want rather than the sit down meal
3) Waffle bar at desert
4) Live band (preferably with brass) over a DJ
5) I want my best men to dress in what they consider their best, rather than all dressing the same (this one mortified her).

All five of them will.  Know why?

Because you're god-damned Chino, that's why.  Make it so.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: TAC on April 03, 2017, 01:27:45 PM

1) Our dance will be to the BTTF version of Earth Angel
2) Self-serve eat when you want rather than the sit down meal
3) Waffle bar at desert
4) Live band (preferably with brass) over a DJ
5) I want my best men to dress in what they consider their best, rather than all dressing the same (this one mortified her).

Those are major decisions though, so good luck with that.

Meal service and music decisions are huge.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 01:33:16 PM
I hear you. In our situation, this seems irrelevant though. Maybe that's why I feel like it's more smoke and mirrors than it is about showing actual respect.
I get it, and again, I don't know the guy (or your girl) and you do.

But this is another thing that isn't about you or what you think.  Will your lady or her father be upset, even a little, if you don't do this?  That is the only thing that matters.

Safest thing is to ask her what she thinks about it.  But either way, asking her dad will at the very least give you more brownie points with the in-laws, and it will give the appearance that you are a man of class, integrity, and thoughtfulness.  There's no downside to it, only upside.

That's all I've got.  Congratulations, pal!

EDIT: WTF at that groomsmen request.  I don't blame her for being mortified.

*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 03, 2017, 01:46:00 PM
$300.00 for a tux rental?  Holy crap!

Did a quick search around here.  Most appear to be under $100.00.  Most expensive I found was $149.00, and screw that.

FYI, if they aren't uniform in some way, the pics will look like crap.  I know, I know, that's another tradition that you don't understand.

Find cheaper tuxes/suits, and spring for the cost of whatever friend can't afford it yourself.  Or rather, have your father-in-law do it, since traditionally that is who pays for the wedding.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 03, 2017, 01:50:34 PM
I'd feel really guilty about having to make them shell out $300+ for a tux rental, especially if I wasn't even going to have them up their initially. Victoria wants them in the wedding, I don't (again, I know I sound like an asshole). To me, the compromise is getting them on the altar without breaking their bank.

Yep, that sucks.  If I had to be in someone's wedding, I'd at least jokingly ask if they were going to pay for my tux rental, but that's because anybody whose wedding I'd be in would be a close enough friend that I could bust their balls about it.  And I've seen weddings like you're talking about where there's literally a CROWD on stage, because everyone on the bride's side of the bridal party likely had some sort of expectation to be involved, so the guy has to invite nearly everyone he knows to get involved just to even it up.  I never understood that.  Have three people on each side (best main, MOH, and two groomsmen and brides maids), if that.  If everybody and their mother gets all huffy at not being included, then you say "Best man and maid of honor will be chosen by us.  Everyone else gets to fight amongst themselves as to who gets the remaining spots.  Get back to me by (insert date here) with the agreed upon decision."

God talking about this stuff just gets me fired up.  I need a drink.


have your father-in-law do it, since traditionally that is who pays for the wedding.

This is another thing I don't get.  For as much as I don't value having to submit to dad before getting engaged, I also don't think the parents should have any responsibility to pay for it.  You're adults, you have jobs, if you want to get married, great!  That's on your tab.  It's part of being a grownup.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on April 03, 2017, 01:54:44 PM
As someone who's bought and sold an engagement ring before  :lol I am totally with you as it being not something to spend a lot of money on.  For one, it is not a good investment.  Yes, it has real life value, but it's not the same as buying gold or buying a house.  The purchase of the diamond alone, the difference in it's actual value and the price you pay (more than the real value for profit to the seller) will likely be more than any increase in value you'll see over your life (AKA, you are unlikely to be able to sell it for more money in the future... now of course we all know you'll never sell it, but the point is that it's not a good investment overall if one were to look at it that way).  Second, the money spent on it has likely, maybe not though (I don't know your money situation), better uses for your future as a couple/family.   Don't forget you'll want to also take out insurance on it if you were to spend a lot. 

Sadly it was a made up thing for our culture that stuck and a lot of women feel strongly about their ring.  My ex actually picked out her ring.  We just went to look and she found one she really liked but we were "just looking" she thought.  I bought it and didn't pop the question for a few months to let it simmer and be forgotten, which it was.  But it didn't take long for her to complain and question the idea of getting a bigger stone.  I paid 5k at the time and I was in a worse job than I am in now so that 5k was not as easy as it is today to pay.  When she asked about a bigger stone, I knew I had made the wrong decision.  Someone who values that is not really the type of person for me.  I've got to imagine that by now, your future fiance knows you well enough to know you don't like these traditions and that she wouldn't expect a huge rock so hopefully that won't happen to you.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 01:55:54 PM
$300.00 for a tux rental?  Holy crap!

Did a quick search around here.  Most appear to be under $100.00.  Most expensive I found was $149.00, and screw that.

FYI, if they aren't uniform in some way, the pics will look like crap.  I know, I know, that's another tradition that you don't understand.

Find cheaper tuxes/suits, and spring for the cost of whatever friend can't afford it yourself.  Or rather, have your father-in-law do it, since traditionally that is who pays for the wedding.

I would have killed for a $100 rental when my best bud got married last August. My shoes and vest alone were $100  :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2017, 01:58:09 PM
I just wanted to say that, as I read through your list, I was getting more and more afraid that #5 would have something to do with you entering from a balcony.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2017, 01:59:28 PM
As someone who's bought and sold an engagement ring before  :lol I am totally with you as it being not something to spend a lot of money on.  For one, it is not a good investment.  Yes, it has real life value, but it's not the same as buying gold or buying a house.  The purchase of the diamond alone, the difference in it's actual value and the price you pay (more than the real value for profit to the seller) will likely be more than any increase in value you'll see over your life (AKA, you are unlikely to be able to sell it for more money in the future... now of course we all know you'll never sell it, but the point is that it's not a good investment overall if one were to look at it that way).  Second, the money spent on it has likely, maybe not though (I don't know your money situation), better uses for your future as a couple/family.   Don't forget you'll want to also take out insurance on it if you were to spend a lot. 

Sadly it was a made up thing for our culture that stuck and a lot of women feel strongly about their ring.  My ex actually picked out her ring.  We just went to look and she found one she really liked but we were "just looking" she thought.  I bought it and didn't pop the question for a few months to let it simmer and be forgotten, which it was.  But it didn't take long for her to complain and question the idea of getting a bigger stone.  I paid 5k at the time and I was in a worse job than I am in now so that 5k was not as easy as it is today to pay.  When she asked about a bigger stone, I knew I had made the wrong decision.  Someone who values that is not really the type of person for me.  I've got to imagine that by now, your future fiance knows you well enough to know you don't like these traditions and that she wouldn't expect a huge rock so hopefully that won't happen to you.

Did you get the ring back?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: jingle.boy on April 03, 2017, 02:00:11 PM
On the topic of "asking permission" from her father/parents, I'm 100% in the Hef/Bosk/Stadler camp (and also have a 16-year old daughter).  Their comments (along with Gary's) nailed it, so I have nothing further to offer other than this.  In a month, year, or decade, which is more likely to cause you/Victoria any regrets - asking (when you didn't believe in it); not asking (and risking all the comments that have been made)?  As Hef said, I really don't see any downside to asking - other than it bruising your pride of not doing something just out of 'tradition'.  And by the way, what's wrong with some tradition?  Do you pay for meals?  Hold doors open for women?

Is there any possibility dad might be offended if you "ask"?  Unlikely.
Is there any possibility he might be offended if you don't "ask"?  It's not for us to say, but as the dad's of daughters here have said, we would be.

IMO, there's only upside in "asking", and downside in not "asking".
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: King Postwhore on April 03, 2017, 02:00:53 PM
Last Tux I rented was $180.  And I'm a big boy.  Don't pimp your boys out.  Pick something that looks good and reasonable.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Skeever on April 03, 2017, 02:01:46 PM
I think you have to be firm about what you really want as a couple. Planning a wedding is a great test of how your own commitments will endure against external and societal forces. If you let other's expectations take precedence over your own around every corner, do you really think that's going to change down the road, when it comes to buying a house, and raising your kids? The diamond is a perfect example of this. If your future spouse doesn't care about the diamond, then buy a different gem she likes more, or just buy a diamond within reason. You should not let what she wants wear away at her (and your) confidence when tested against the expectations of people who are secondary.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2017, 02:03:52 PM
On the topic of "asking permission" from her father/parents, I'm 100% in the Hef/Bosk/Stadler camp

Well, I'm just glad somebody finally at least acknowledged that I posted in the thread at all.  Next thing you know, Chino will be telling me I'm not even IN the wedding anymore.  Or worse, the cheap skate'll make me rent my own tux or something.  :rant:
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 03, 2017, 02:05:31 PM
I'm fairly certain that if any outside family or friends had expressed any sort of expectation that their thoughts or wishes be considered above mine at my wedding, I likely would've asked when they planned on taking over payment of some of my monthly bills.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 03, 2017, 02:05:59 PM
have your father-in-law do it, since traditionally that is who pays for the wedding.

This is another thing I don't get.  For as much as I don't value having to submit to dad before getting engaged, I also don't think the parents should have any responsibility to pay for it.  You're adults, you have jobs, if you want to get married, great!  That's on your tab.  It's part of being a grownup.

As a future father-in-law (twice over if you count stepdaughters who don't even speak to their real dad) let me just remind you all that Coz is a very, very smart man, who has lived this world to the FULLEST.  We should share in his wisdom.  Bathe in it, really.  :)
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 03, 2017, 02:07:18 PM
As far as the tux thing - buy suits. Seriously, keep an eye out for when places like Jos A Bank do their buy one suit, get two free or whatever deal. If you've got three guys, take them all in at once, they basically split the cost of one suit, and all get something nice that they actually can wear in the future.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: jingle.boy on April 03, 2017, 02:13:33 PM
have your father-in-law do it, since traditionally that is who pays for the wedding.

This is another thing I don't get.  For as much as I don't value having to submit to dad before getting engaged, I also don't think the parents should have any responsibility to pay for it.  You're adults, you have jobs, if you want to get married, great!  That's on your tab.  It's part of being a grownup.

As a future father-in-law (twice over if you count stepdaughters who don't even speak to their real dad) let me just remind you all that Coz is a very, very smart man, who has lived this world to the FULLEST.  We should share in his wisdom.  Bathe in it, really.  :)

His woman is also the cat's meow.  Not all women are like Mrs. C.

Mrs.Jingle and I also did a getaway vacation - eerily similar story to Coz's.  We paid for the whole thing, top to bottom, so any input from my mother, grandparents, or any other person was met with a prompt "I appreciate your opinion".  And that's it.  We made 100% of the decisions.  Others only get a say if they are picking up the tab.

On the flip side... not everyone getting married is financially in the place to be able to pick up the whole tab.  The tradition of the bride's family paying for the wedding is indeed antiquated, not is not often financially viable.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Orbert on April 03, 2017, 02:16:59 PM
Orbert's story about asking the father's "permission":


Fred had been in college for seven years and had switched majors so many times that he was nowhere near a degree.  Meanwhile, he was working at the pizza place with my sister.  They'd been dating for three or four years, when he proposed to her.

Fred thought it would be really cool to ask my dad for permission to marry my sister.  It was known that my dad's opinion of Fred wasn't great, but presumably my dad would be so impressed by this old-fashioned move that it would raise his opinion of Fred and he would grant persmission.

My dad considered the request, and (paraphrasing, since I wasn't there) said "Well, since you're asking, the answer is No.  My daughter could do a lot better."

They ended up eloping.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on April 03, 2017, 02:18:18 PM
As someone who's bought and sold an engagement ring before  :lol I am totally with you as it being not something to spend a lot of money on.  For one, it is not a good investment.  Yes, it has real life value, but it's not the same as buying gold or buying a house.  The purchase of the diamond alone, the difference in it's actual value and the price you pay (more than the real value for profit to the seller) will likely be more than any increase in value you'll see over your life (AKA, you are unlikely to be able to sell it for more money in the future... now of course we all know you'll never sell it, but the point is that it's not a good investment overall if one were to look at it that way).  Second, the money spent on it has likely, maybe not though (I don't know your money situation), better uses for your future as a couple/family.   Don't forget you'll want to also take out insurance on it if you were to spend a lot. 

Sadly it was a made up thing for our culture that stuck and a lot of women feel strongly about their ring.  My ex actually picked out her ring.  We just went to look and she found one she really liked but we were "just looking" she thought.  I bought it and didn't pop the question for a few months to let it simmer and be forgotten, which it was.  But it didn't take long for her to complain and question the idea of getting a bigger stone.  I paid 5k at the time and I was in a worse job than I am in now so that 5k was not as easy as it is today to pay.  When she asked about a bigger stone, I knew I had made the wrong decision.  Someone who values that is not really the type of person for me.  I've got to imagine that by now, your future fiance knows you well enough to know you don't like these traditions and that she wouldn't expect a huge rock so hopefully that won't happen to you.

Did you get the ring back?

Yes after a lot of fighting (at least in NJ she had no legal right to it), sold it for a small fraction of what I paid, but put it all on black in Vegas at 3am on a Friday morning and lost  :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 03, 2017, 02:22:02 PM
On the flip side... not everyone getting married is financially in the place to be able to pick up the whole tab.  The tradition of the bride's family paying for the wedding is indeed antiquated, not is not often financially viable.

And on that same flip side, I don't think that a wedding should be any different than any other thing that your (royal you) kid wants and can't afford.  Get a second job.  Save the money.  Donate blood.  Strip.  Whatever it takes to get that which you desire.  One day, when I'm dead and gone, your landlord (or the bank) isn't going to care if you can't afford to pay the rent/mortgage.  Learn the lesson now, before you get to that point.


Orbert's story about asking the father's "permission":


Fred had been in college for seven years and had switched majors so many times that he was nowhere near a degree.  Meanwhile, he was working at the pizza place with my sister.  They'd been dating for three or four years, when he proposed to her.

Fred thought it would be really cool to ask my dad for permission to marry my sister.  It was known that my dad's opinion of Fred wasn't great, but presumably my dad would be so impressed by this old-fashioned move that it would raise his opinion of Fred and he would grant persmission.

My dad considered the request, and (paraphrasing, since I wasn't there) said "Well, since you're asking, the answer is No.  My daughter could do a lot better."

They ended up eloping.

Again, Orbert stories are always the best.


Yes after a lot of fighting (at least in NJ she had no legal right to it), sold it for a small fraction of what I paid, but put it all on black in Vegas at 3am on a Friday morning and lost  :lol

(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/68395763.jpg)
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: jingle.boy on April 03, 2017, 02:30:31 PM
@ Orbert... the best!

@ Coz... I completely understand, respect that view, and agree to the extent that no one should ever *expect* the bride's family to pay for a wedding.  If either family can or wants to contribute to the finances of the event ... great.  Have at it.  But no bride or groom should ever expect or need it to get married.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: El Barto on April 03, 2017, 02:58:25 PM
Yeah, I'm nowhere near as fond of weddings as Cozmo is. Fucking insanity.

Best of luck, Bryan.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on April 03, 2017, 03:11:55 PM
Yea, I should add a congrats!  In the midst of thinking and reading/writing about rings, I forgot to say congrats on getting ready to pull the trigger.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: El Barto on April 03, 2017, 03:19:23 PM
Send an invitation to Bill Murray. Who knows, maybe he shows. In fact, each of you should pick 10 famous people you admire to send invites to, on the off chance one of them happens to be in CT that weekend. Ron Howard lives there. He seems like a really nice guy.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 03, 2017, 03:25:20 PM
Send an invitation to Bill Murray. Who knows, maybe he shows.
Wouldn't shock me.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Orbert on April 03, 2017, 04:56:42 PM
Orbert's story about asking the father's "permission":

Fred had been in college for seven years and had switched majors so many times that he was nowhere near a degree.  Meanwhile, he was working at the pizza place with my sister.  They'd been dating for three or four years, when he proposed to her.

Fred thought it would be really cool to ask my dad for permission to marry my sister.  It was known that my dad's opinion of Fred wasn't great, but presumably my dad would be so impressed by this old-fashioned move that it would raise his opinion of Fred and he would grant persmission.

My dad considered the request, and (paraphrasing, since I wasn't there) said "Well, since you're asking, the answer is No.  My daughter could do a lot better."

They ended up eloping.

Out of fairness to my brother-in-law, I should mention that he eventually did actually manage to graduate, even picked up a Master's some years later, and finally a PhD.  The PhD was just last year, but that's more than I'll ever accomplish.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: pogoowner on April 03, 2017, 09:03:33 PM
On the tux subject, my friend had a pretty good system for his wedding. He waited for one of those buy-one-get-one type of sales at Jos. A. Bank, got our measurements, and just bought us all the same suit. We still paid for it, but we each got to keep a suit, and it cost us all about $215 a piece.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 04, 2017, 07:23:03 AM
Scott Conant is from your neck of the woods!  Maybe he'll cook your dinner.  Meryl Streep is in Litchfield!  Maybe she can do the speech (your wife will love that!).   Michael Bolton used to live in Milford!   Maybe he can sing at the ceremony.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Hyperplex on April 04, 2017, 10:12:26 AM
I think I found your perfect ring, Chino:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-04/sotheby-s-sets-world-record-selling-71-million-pink-diamond
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: El Barto on April 04, 2017, 10:49:30 AM
Scott Conant is from your neck of the woods!  Maybe he'll cook your dinner.  Meryl Streep is in Litchfield!  Maybe she can do the speech (your wife will love that!).   Michael Bolton used to live in Milford!   Maybe he can sing at the ceremony.
If you invite somebody with a wedding translatable talent they'll never show. Bolton would know he'd be expected to sing. Streep or Murray would just have to show up and enjoy themselves without being on the clock. ND-Tyson is close enough that he might entertain the thought of a train ride up.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 04, 2017, 01:20:55 PM
Scott Conant is from your neck of the woods!  Maybe he'll cook your dinner.  Meryl Streep is in Litchfield!  Maybe she can do the speech (your wife will love that!).   Michael Bolton used to live in Milford!   Maybe he can sing at the ceremony.
If you invite somebody with a wedding translatable talent they'll never show. Bolton would know he'd be expected to sing. Streep or Murray would just have to show up and enjoy themselves without being on the clock. ND-Tyson is close enough that he might entertain the thought of a train ride up.

Good point; there's no win with Conant putting on the apron.   A bunch of tweets "that sucked.  Conant is CHOPPED!"

Chino, does the casino factor into your plans in any way?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 04, 2017, 01:24:11 PM

Chino, does the casino factor into your plans in any way?

*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on April 04, 2017, 01:30:39 PM
I tried to get a DTF Casino trip together a few years ago, but nothing came of it. The offer is still on the table.

That was only last year, and I am still down for it  :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 04, 2017, 03:29:13 PM
I'm late to the party, I guess. I went the low priced, high romance route and made our wedding rings myself.

I purchased a couple of pretty white but high with inclusions diamonds. No one looks at them under a glass anyway. If they sparkle, the'll do. I made a few drawings and modified them to future Mrs. P's liking. Went to a jeweler supply store and bought a mandrel, various carving waxes, various melting waxes, an alcohol lamp, a smoothing torch an investment casting mold and went to town.

When the wax rings were finished, I had the supply store investment cast them for me (just so I wouldn't fuck it up) in 24 k gold. For the extra touch of romance, they were both cast in the same mold. Then I took the stones and rings to a master jeweler and had him mount the stones.

All told, it took about a month to accomplish and saved an enormous amount of money. Mrs. P's ring was recently appraised at just under $10k (for insurance purposes) and I don't think we spent even $2k total for both rings. Plus, I still have the ring making tools!  :biggrin:

If you're interested, I could post some pics when I get home.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on April 04, 2017, 03:41:19 PM
That's certainly an interesting route that I've never heard of anyone taking.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 04, 2017, 03:47:43 PM
I used to read a lot of craftsman books back in the day, Cram, and jewelry making fascinated me. I took a high-school extension evening class to try hands on investment casting to get the hang of it. That's what pretty much decided me on letting the pros do the actual casting. I was pretty sure I could make the wax facsimiles... and as it turned out, I could.

Chino seems like a similarly minded person, so I thought I'd throw it out to consider.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Orbert on April 04, 2017, 03:48:42 PM
That's pretty cool!
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: TAC on April 04, 2017, 03:50:38 PM
That's certainly an interesting route that I've never heard of anyone taking.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: bosk1 on April 04, 2017, 03:52:21 PM
Very cool, indeed.  I would love to see pictures. 

Speaking of pictures, that story just screams out for an "unconventional" wedding photo of the two of you holding hands as a close-up of your hands with the rings.  Did you by any chance do something like that?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on April 04, 2017, 03:58:07 PM
Did you also make one ring to rule them all?

Chino seems like a similarly minded person, so I thought I'd throw it out to consider.

And yea, definitely seems like something Chino could be interested in. He's already got a 3d printer.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 04, 2017, 04:07:46 PM
Very cool, indeed.  I would love to see pictures. 

Speaking of pictures, that story just screams out for an "unconventional" wedding photo of the two of you holding hands as a close-up of your hands with the rings.  Did you by any chance do something like that?

Funny you should mention that. After my post, I logged into my cloud drive to see if the pictures were there. Apparently, that's the only digital picture I have (it was long enough ago that all the other photos are prints. Not a great photo...

(https://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss104/Podaar/05-12-01%2024_zpsgqjxxjod.jpg)

I'll need to scan the making photos and upload them later.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: TAC on April 04, 2017, 04:21:07 PM
One of Gregg's Making Of pics is already circulating on the internet. Damn Gregg, you were one hot dude in your youth!



























(https://hws.workwiththey.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Ghost_Still_1541.jpg)
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 04, 2017, 04:40:10 PM
I haven't had that much hair on my head in 38 years, Tim.  :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: TempusVox on April 04, 2017, 09:53:25 PM
1.  Avoid chains like Hyperplex said.
2.  Find out what she likes.
3.  In the event you do not want to do #2 first or it turns out that you are mistaken or that she just flat out changes her mind, find out what the return/exchange policy is and make sure it is in writing prior to purchase.  Many places assume the guy will pick out something he thinks his future bride will like to surprise her, and that the two of them will then come back and jointly shop for something else as her eventual "forever" ring once the wedding date is closer.

This.

Also, try and find a diamond broker or gemologist jeweler in your area. Avoid any place that has track lighting. Track lighting is in EVERY mall jeweler because they make EVERY stone shine like crazy.

Here in Cincinnati there is a broker called Koch Jewelry. They're on like the 10th floor of an office building. They never advertise, yet have been in business for over 50 years. A friend told me about them when I got married the first time. I made an appointment and the gemologist took me back into their vault and gave me a lesson on diamonds that I'll never forget. He told me:
1. Know what you want to spend.
2. Buy for quality not carrat. My ex wife wanted a 2c+ princess cut. But that was to to be outside of my budget.

Then he showed me how most stores sell crap. He placed a stone in a setting and had me look at it under a microscope. It was beautiful. Then he dumped the stone on a white sheet of paper, and it was yellow as fuck. We looked at the loose stone under the scope and it was loaded with carbon and imperfections. The lesson...stones that are preset hide poor quality. Buy a loose stone you pick out and have it mounted in a setting.

We talked about the 4 c' s and I was blown away by what I learned.

 Most bad stones are cut with a shallow cut, which allows the light to escape the bottom and sides, but since they're pre mounted they still sparkle, so we went with a stone that was Ideal cut, and it's brilliance was like a white hot fire, no matter where you were in the room when you looked at it. This cut meant it was a round diamond now.

As for Clarity I chose an IF stone, which means Internally Flawless. This is a very rare stone. It had no inclusions and minute blemishes, you'd need to be a gemologist with about a 20x microscope to see.

But anything at VVS or VS is still an excellent stone. Most of them are what are known as "eye clean" that means you'll never see anything bad with the naked eye.

It was about a two hour education that I've cherished ever since. We wound up with a nearly flawless stone that was 3/4 carrat. It was worth more than just about any of the larger stones her friends had, and she loved it.

I've bought jewelry at other places since, but I'll never buy a diamond anywhere else. In fact, I bought the second Mrs. Vox a flawless emerald cut diamond there. It cost me almost 40 grand. About a year after we were married, she was with a girlfriend at a local chain jewelry store who was buying her husband a watch. The jeweler saw my wife's ring and asked if he could take a closer look. He looked at it under his loupe and then after telling her how gorgeous it was asked if he could see it under the scope that was on the counter. So she took it off and in front of her he looked at it and said, "It's not every day I see an 80,000 dollar ring come walking in here."

Buy quality, buy a stone and have it set, and avoid chains.

Like the gemologist told me all those years ago..."Nearly everyone buys quantity. If you have the money, I can get you the Star of Africa if you want it. But if you don't have that kind of money, why would you want your wife to wear a big piece of junk? If it's smaller, but an heirloom quality stone that will appreciate over generations, that's a much better way to go".

EDIT.

I'll also leave you with this nugget from a priest the first time I got married. He said, " Couples spend an enormous amount of time, effort, money, and energy planning and preparing for the FIRST day of their marriage; and not nearly enough of all of that on the REST of the days of their marriage".

Congrats and good luck.

Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 05, 2017, 06:21:13 AM
^ That's all really good advice. I would encourage Chino to listen to it. While I don't have TV's moola, I also value good diamonds enough to pay as much as I can afford for them.

Chino, to get a .5 k diamond, good cut, VS through VVS, with an F color or better, you'll bust your initial ring budget just on the stone ($1,500 - $2,000) but I think it's a wise investment and worth some consideration.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 05, 2017, 07:15:36 AM
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.

@Temp: Kudos for that writeup. I will definitely be taking that into account. I know I said $2000 was my limit, but I'm horrible at staying within budget, and when it comes to Victoria, I usually cave. I'll be nowhere near $40K territory, but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up talking myself into spending near double of what I said I'm limiting myself to.

@Podaar: Awesome story. I've actually forged rings before, but I never poured one with a casting method. Sounds like a great project. I'm going for the element of surprise here, and there's no way I could pull that off without her knowing.


Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 05, 2017, 07:19:45 AM

@Podaar: Awesome story. I've actually forged rings before, but I never poured one with a casting method. Sounds like a great project. I'm going for the element of surprise here, and there's no way I could pull that off without her knowing.


Yeah, I kinda wondered about that. Congrats, and enjoy the process. Love is the best thing ever...closely followed by music, of course.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 05, 2017, 07:33:41 AM
Chino seems like a similarly minded person, so I thought I'd throw it out to consider.

And yea, definitely seems like something Chino could be interested in. He's already got a 3d printer.

HAHA, that got a laugh out loud.   HAHA.   That's what he should do, make the ring with the Kickstarter printer!


Podaar, that is cooler than cool.  That's the kind of thing I hear about and say "Dammit!  If there's a third marriage..."  :) 
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: bosk1 on April 05, 2017, 07:49:37 AM
@Temp: Kudos for that writeup. I will definitely be taking that into account. I know I said $2000 was my limit, but I'm horrible at staying within budget, and when it comes to Victoria, I usually cave. I'll be nowhere near $40K territory, but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up talking myself into spending near double of what I said I'm limiting myself to.

Well, there's no reason a budget can't be revised, you know?  People who are good with their money always set budgets for major purchases.  But, IMO, as you go through the process of getting more educated about the purchase, there's nothing wrong with rescaling the budget if you believe it is warranted based on your research.  As long as you can afford it and you are happy with the purchase at the end of the day, that's the main thing.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 05, 2017, 07:56:12 AM
@Temp: Kudos for that writeup. I will definitely be taking that into account. I know I said $2000 was my limit, but I'm horrible at staying within budget, and when it comes to Victoria, I usually cave. I'll be nowhere near $40K territory, but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up talking myself into spending near double of what I said I'm limiting myself to.

Well, there's no reason a budget can't be revised, you know?  People who are good with their money always set budgets for major purchases.  But, IMO, as you go through the process of getting more educated about the purchase, there's nothing wrong with rescaling the budget if you believe it is warranted based on your research.  As long as you can afford it and you are happy with the purchase at the end of the day, that's the main thing.

*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 05, 2017, 07:58:18 AM
Chino seems like a similarly minded person, so I thought I'd throw it out to consider.

And yea, definitely seems like something Chino could be interested in. He's already got a 3d printer.

HAHA, that got a laugh out loud.   HAHA.   That's what he should do, make the ring with the Kickstarter printer!


Podaar, that is cooler than cool.  That's the kind of thing I hear about and say "Dammit!  If there's a third marriage..."  :)

To that point... this is my third marriage.  :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 05, 2017, 08:20:36 AM
"Dammit!  If there's a third marriage..."

I obviously didn't learn my lesson the first two times.  :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 05, 2017, 08:30:57 AM
 :lol

That sounds like a Henny Youngman bit.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: axeman90210 on April 05, 2017, 09:01:29 AM
I tried to get a DTF Casino trip together a few years ago, but nothing came of it. The offer is still on the table.

That was only last year, and I am still down for it  :lol

Sup guys :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 07, 2017, 09:58:29 AM
I finally found the records I had of making our wedding rings.

When I first asked the future Mrs. P what she'd like her ring to look like, she didn't really know and kind of shrugged. I suspect she didn't think I could really pull it off. So I made this sketch to get her imagination going (she doesn't think spatially as well as some of us). This first draft appealed to my artsy side and she loved the symbolism (it's a private thing between us) in the design but ultimately she had something else in mind.

(https://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss104/Podaar/first-draft_zpscqihu2nw.jpg)
Hers on the left. Mine on the right.

The drawing served its purpose and she started talking. She really wanted a pear shaped diamond and had always liked "cuff" type jewelry...a little old fashioned but I went with it. After a few attempts I ultimately hit on a design she loved.

(https://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss104/Podaar/final-ring_zpsxk9ft6t0.jpg)
Hers top. Mine bottom.


The wax facsimiles. Sorry for the bad photos. Print photography was never my strength.

(https://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss104/Podaar/top-wax_zpswolpeyke.jpg)(https://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss104/Podaar/side-wax_zpsyxj9fnog.jpg)


The wax mounted to the casting sprue and ready to be investment cast.

(https://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss104/Podaar/sprued_zpsl8060e2p.jpg)


The finished casting.

(https://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss104/Podaar/castings_zpsveegummg.jpg)


Other than the photo of our hands on the marriage certificate I don't have any photos of the finished rings polished and with the stones mounted. By the time the rings were finished, we were pretty close to the wedding date and things were pretty frantic so it just never occurred to me to take a finished product photo.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 07, 2017, 12:57:01 PM
Does it come with a lantern?   Can you use it to fly and make giant hammers and stuff?


Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on April 07, 2017, 12:59:10 PM
At what point did you cast a spell on them?

In seriousness, that's really cool.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 07, 2017, 01:39:15 PM
Does it come with a lantern?   Can you use it to fly and make giant hammers and stuff?

 ???
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 07, 2017, 01:55:33 PM
Does it come with a lantern?   Can you use it to fly and make giant hammers and stuff?

 ???

I think he's referencing that super hero movie Ryan Reynolds was in.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: El Barto on April 07, 2017, 03:25:32 PM
Does it come with a lantern?   Can you use it to fly and make giant hammers and stuff?

 ???
The wax facsimiles were green.

Cool looking rings, dude.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 07, 2017, 03:36:25 PM
Ah, comes the dawn.  :)

I forgot to mention one of the biggest bonuses of making our rings. Whenever someone complements Mrs. P on her ring, she beams and points at me and says, "He made it." It never hurts a relationship to give your SO bragging rights.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Nick on April 07, 2017, 03:49:56 PM
Don't really have any advice, just wanted to pop in to say that I agree it's a ridiculous tradition, especially at the price point the tradition is set at.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on April 07, 2017, 05:11:14 PM
Don't really have any advice, just wanted to pop in to say that I agree it's a ridiculous tradition, especially at the price point the tradition is set at.

It's also a completely made up tradition, made up by a Diamond jeweler.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 10, 2017, 06:36:10 AM
Does it come with a lantern?   Can you use it to fly and make giant hammers and stuff?

 ???

I think he's referencing that super hero movie Ryan Reynolds was in.

I can't decide which is worse; Podaar not knowing, or you using THAT MOVIE as the touch point.  :) 

I was a big fan of the Green Lantern comics when I grew up; they had Neil Adams and Mike Grell (two of the best artists ever in the comics) for a period in the 70's and 80's.  Classic stuff.   

Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 10, 2017, 06:41:41 AM
I have to say, though, even though I'm repeating myself; it's all well and good to blame "shitty tradition" and/or the diamond dealers, but the fact is, it's STILL a tradition.   In my humble experience, not all couples are as deeply honest with each other as they should be, especially when it comes to things like these.   

My rational brain can understand all these points of view, but to be honest, I'm not willing to take the chance that my FIRST grand gesture to her - the woman I profess to love, and for whom I would do ANYTHING in the world - is taking the easy, cheap way out on something that WILL matter to someone in her circle if not her.   Maybe it speaks more about me than I care to admit, but I won't take the chance that she will somewhere someday have someone say "Aw, cute ring; what gumball machine did that come from?" and all because of ME.   My take?   Adhere to the tradition, and if it turns out that she feels like you all do, then we have a great laugh and a story to tell for the rest of our decades together.   

This just seems like low hanging fruit to me, and of all the places to make your Waterloo this doesn't seem like it. 

(Note, Podaar, I don't mean you or your method: that is killer and sweet and romantic.  I'm talking about the "you're getting a $400 trinket, because diamond mines, bloody money and corporate greed, baby.  I love you!")
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 10, 2017, 06:52:28 AM
Note, Podaar, I don't mean you or your method: that is killer and sweet and romantic.  I'm talking about the "you're getting a $400 trinket, because diamond mines, bloody money and corporate greed, baby.  I love you!"

My method was more about where we were at financially at the time. I'm completely down with the new tradition. It's true that De Beers started the whole thing with clever advertising, but in my family it was already a three generation tradition by the time I was born.

Make no mistake, I upgraded Mrs. P's stone for our tenth anniversary!  :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 10, 2017, 09:19:44 AM
There is not a prayer in hell that I would base ANY of my decisions on something like this on even the faintest HINT of concern for what anyone in her circle of friends may think.  I'm not pledging my life to any of them, so they unless they pledge to start helping pay the bills, their opinions or snide remarks mean zilch.  Now that said, I have gone to her friend(s) for considerably lesser things, to bounce ideas off of them, like birthday parties, etc.  Less consequential things, that I purposely sought their opinions on.

We agreed on a modest sized stone fore Mrs. C's ring with chatham garnets on either side.  Lab-produced garnets look no different and are way less expensive.  The woman who I would do ANYTHING in the world for is someone who deserves that I spend my money wisely, not wastefully.  Despite traditions, expectations, peer pressure, societal impact, or whatever, spending multiple thousands of dollars on a diamond ring is wasteful, in my opinion.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on April 10, 2017, 09:42:56 AM
Yea, I am with Coz.  Her friends opinions are the least of my concerns and honestly I am more interested in being with someone who shares that opinion (the opinion of "we don't care what others think").  Granted, I am interested in asking my gf on her opinion on this now haha
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 10, 2017, 09:56:15 AM
And for the record, I should note that I do not want anyone to get the impression that I'm bagging on them for doing what they felt was right for themselves, monetarily, traditionally, or whatever.  Whatever has worked for any of you, was obviously the right thing to do.  I don't want my opinion to be taken as any sort of condemnation of the actions of anyone here.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 10, 2017, 10:14:02 AM
Agreed. No one way is superior to another, merely fitting for individual circumstances and tastes.

Still, I'd caution anyone about discounting the opinions of your SO's friends and family. It's perfectly understandable, reasonable even, that you don't give a shit of their opinions, but your SO might! Now if they don't care, fine. It just seems prudent not to project your opinion on them.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 10, 2017, 10:21:38 AM
It just seems prudent not to project your opinion on them.

It's equally fair that her friends' opinions not be projected onto me.  Honestly, if a woman's friends' opinion of things like this means enough to her that there would be ANY potential for ruffles, if you didn't get her just the right thing, is that really someone you want to be with?  Maybe some people would.  I don't know.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 10, 2017, 10:30:24 AM
:dunno:

Who can say about the ways of the heart. We love who we love. Like you, I'd probably not be attracted to someone who overly cared for the opinion of others. Still, it is true that my wife does notice reactions of her peers, and adjusts her outward "packaging" (as she calls it) to increase potential favor. Her career is way more political than mine, though, so that might explain some of it. Ultimately, I don't think she spends too much time worrying about their good opinion, but she does it more than I would. I try to be mindful of that.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 10, 2017, 11:09:11 AM
Respectfully, Coz and Cram, it's a little more than just "pandering to her friends".  I'm with you on that 1000% percent.  My wife and I don't do anything that isn't right by us, FIRST, and if that runs afoul of the gaggle of hens, so be it.  I was going deeper, though, to the heart of human nature.  It's not the friends that I'm worried about.   it's the INFLUENCE of the circle.   We're talking about the moment right before the wedding, when everything is as good as it is ever going to be in 90% of the cases.    I'm talking about later, when the cracks begin to show.  When the little things start to add up and start to annoy.   When the constant reminder of that 'cute little trinket' starts to seep in, like water between the cracks of the tile floor, building up until the wood is rotted and destroyed. 

My daughter is 16 now.  When she was born, we went in at 7 am to be induced, and she was born around 11:30 pm.   My wife at the time could only suck on ice chips and broth.   At about 4:30 or so in the afternoon, a family friend who worked at the hospital came in to see her, and as she left, she said, "Stadler, stop by the nurse's station when you get a minute".   She had some Mexican food, and offered me some.  I ate a little and went back in.  Of course, I'm a male, I'm dumb, so I reeked of enchilada or some shit and the wife noticed.  She gave me a little crap for it, but let it go.   Sure enough, it's 2013 and we're going through a miserable divorce and sure as shit I was the "douchebag that was sitting out yapping with the hot nurses and throwing back burritos while she slaved over the birth of our kid".   I know, it's not rational and not exactly on point, but by way of example, that's more what I was talking about than purely just what her best friend thinks. 
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 10, 2017, 11:21:57 AM
'cute little trinket'

Anybody who ever had the nerve to even CONSIDER vocalizing something like this to me or my wife would likely get cut straight out of my life in a hurry.  Fuck you, fuck your sense of entitlement on my wife's behalf, fuck your shoes, fuck your hair, fuck the horse you rode in on, and fuck the street you rode him here on.  If cutting them out altogether just could not be an option, I would not miss an opportunity to let my feelings regarding that person be very, very well known.  There isn't time in life for that kinda shit.

I'm lucky that neither she nor I have friends that would ever consider acting like this, primarily because they're grown-ups and recognize that it what's in your heart that matters, not your hand.  The fact that everybody we know remarks about how happy the two of us are to be together is all I need to hear.  My wife told me she was chatting with a couple ladies at work and the conversation went something like this: 

Coworker 1 says to Coworker 2 "She actually LIKES her husband" and is going on about how she doesn't really know anyone that is married that likes their husband, then Coworker 2 says "Oh, you're still newlyweds" and Mrs. C says that we've been together 11 years, and Coworker 1 says "and you light up every time you talk about him."

THAT was fucking cool to hear.

I get where you're coming from, I really do.  The over-hanging air of doubt that can be cast upon a person unconsciously by their friends opinions about things.  I don't mean to be making light of what you're saying, I just know that there ARE people who give a shit about this "stuff" (ring quality, etc.) and it disgusts me that grown adults, who should be better judges of what's important in life, act like this.  I could see teenagers acting this way.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 10, 2017, 11:47:54 AM
But her emails.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 10, 2017, 11:50:32 AM
But her emails.

Wrong thread.  :) 
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 10, 2017, 11:51:16 AM
 :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on April 10, 2017, 12:05:06 PM
:rollin

Well played.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 10, 2017, 12:11:12 PM
I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Adami on April 10, 2017, 12:16:09 PM
I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us.


.........are you a god?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 10, 2017, 12:24:26 PM
*looks around a bit*

...no...
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 10, 2017, 12:27:20 PM
I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us.


.........are you a god?
I was once told to say "YES!" if I was ever asked that question.

It is the founding principle of my life.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Skeever on April 10, 2017, 06:51:59 PM
Respectfully, Coz and Cram, it's a little more than just "pandering to her friends".  I'm with you on that 1000% percent.  My wife and I don't do anything that isn't right by us, FIRST, and if that runs afoul of the gaggle of hens, so be it.  I was going deeper, though, to the heart of human nature.  It's not the friends that I'm worried about.   it's the INFLUENCE of the circle.   We're talking about the moment right before the wedding, when everything is as good as it is ever going to be in 90% of the cases.    I'm talking about later, when the cracks begin to show.  When the little things start to add up and start to annoy.   When the constant reminder of that 'cute little trinket' starts to seep in, like water between the cracks of the tile floor, building up until the wood is rotted and destroyed. 

My daughter is 16 now.  When she was born, we went in at 7 am to be induced, and she was born around 11:30 pm.   My wife at the time could only suck on ice chips and broth.   At about 4:30 or so in the afternoon, a family friend who worked at the hospital came in to see her, and as she left, she said, "Stadler, stop by the nurse's station when you get a minute".   She had some Mexican food, and offered me some.  I ate a little and went back in.  Of course, I'm a male, I'm dumb, so I reeked of enchilada or some shit and the wife noticed.  She gave me a little crap for it, but let it go.   Sure enough, it's 2013 and we're going through a miserable divorce and sure as shit I was the "douchebag that was sitting out yapping with the hot nurses and throwing back burritos while she slaved over the birth of our kid".   I know, it's not rational and not exactly on point, but by way of example, that's more what I was talking about than purely just what her best friend thinks.
Not saying there's no validity to what you're saying - there is. But check out this: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2501480

Of course this is just one little study. But I think there's some truth to it. I've got to imagine that couples who are able to manage their expenses stay together longer and are happier than couples who blow it on the expensive ring, the lavish ceremony, and big house from day one. I have a feeling the guy who spends above his means on the ring to "set the right impression" might just be the same guy who borrows 50k for the lavish ceremony, who takes out the biggest loan the bank will give him for the dream home as newlyweds, and on and on.

I'm expanding the playing field here, but it's only to check the increasingly societal pressures that new couples face. Rings, wedding, ceremonies - it all costs a lot of money. Young couples today have much higher expectations than previous generations, too. It's not enough to just get a big room and to keep the drinks flowing anymore. People want the made for TV deal - the expensive ring, the luxury reality TV wedding, and the picture perfect house - and they are driving themselves into incredible debt to do it. I'm not trying to give guys a pass for being cheap, but I am trying to say that it's perfectly acceptable to draw the line on wedding expenses. The ring itself may be something that neither party cares much about - and it's totally fine to just get something affordable and nice.

Do what you can afford, treat yourself within reason, and let society's expectations be damned. Maybe that means the engagement ring is $500. I'll bet the couple that manages their wants against the expectations of others and "society" is treating themselves to much nicer things for the 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th anniversaries, whereas the couple that lets themselves get swept away by all the manipulative forces surrounded weddings is probably still footing the bill 5 years in.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on April 11, 2017, 06:46:00 AM
Do what you can afford, treat yourself within reason, and let society's expectations be damned.

Essentially this.  But what I think is important and why I am not such a huge fan of expensive rings is that it becomes a way of representing love monetarily.  I don't think money and love should ever be mixed.  Same with the person who buys something expensive for their significant other as a way of "showing love" but then the next time you want to show love, you got to buy something more expensive.  You set a pattern for how much your love is worth in $ and I think that always leads to disaster.  Not saying you can't buy nice things, just saying I don't believe we should associate dollars to how much we love each other, or more traditionally, how much a guy loves the girl.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: NunoTenniscourt on April 24, 2017, 11:41:21 AM

I guess I'm curious as to why you're choosing to partake in something you know to be ridiculous.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 24, 2017, 01:39:54 PM

I guess I'm curious as to why you're choosing to partake in something you know to be ridiculous.

Because "know" is a subjective term. This isn't "knowing" in the sense of "2+2=4" - it is more correctly, "believe strongly" - and because it's not all about him. 
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 24, 2017, 01:56:16 PM
- and because it's not all about him.

The key to a successful relationship.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 24, 2017, 01:59:58 PM

I guess I'm curious as to why you're choosing to partake in something you know to be ridiculous.

*removed for cringe*
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Dublagent66 on April 24, 2017, 02:48:13 PM
Well, it's not really bottled up if you choose to express the hatred here, now is it?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: King Postwhore on April 24, 2017, 03:44:54 PM

I guess I'm curious as to why you're choosing to partake in something you know to be ridiculous.

Part of the definition of marriage is comprise.  It's helps in the relationship.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: NunoTenniscourt on April 24, 2017, 04:04:18 PM

I guess I'm curious as to why you're choosing to partake in something you know to be ridiculous.

Because it's part of being in the relationship. Victoria probably thinks me going out every other Sunday and racing remote control trucks is ridiculous, but she let's me do it because it puts a smile on my face and come every Christmas there's a $200 giftcard to Tower Hobbies in my stocking. I also think it's ridiculous that I have to wear pants and long sleeve button down shirts in the middle of summer for my job, but I choose to partake in it because I like getting a paycheck and health benefits. Life is full of compromising, and by compromising I mean bottling up all my hatred for societal norms until I finally die one day.

She *lets* you do it??? This one word alone speaks volumes to me.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 24, 2017, 04:14:08 PM

I guess I'm curious as to why you're choosing to partake in something you know to be ridiculous.

Because it's part of being in the relationship. Victoria probably thinks me going out every other Sunday and racing remote control trucks is ridiculous, but she let's me do it because it puts a smile on my face and come every Christmas there's a $200 giftcard to Tower Hobbies in my stocking. I also think it's ridiculous that I have to wear pants and long sleeve button down shirts in the middle of summer for my job, but I choose to partake in it because I like getting a paycheck and health benefits. Life is full of compromising, and by compromising I mean bottling up all my hatred for societal norms until I finally die one day.

She *lets* you do it??? This one word alone speaks volumes to me.

Oh fuck off.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: King Postwhore on April 24, 2017, 04:53:53 PM
You are devoted to another person and you ask as a courtesy.  What's with being a dick NunoTenniscourt? You don't understand relationships?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on April 24, 2017, 04:57:41 PM
You give some and you take some, got to have balance.  Something I've honestly struggled with as someone who is very selfish I admit, but I got to think the "let's" him do things is not so serious and more so phrasing. 
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: SystematicThought on April 24, 2017, 07:07:24 PM
Good luck with that Brian.  In 1994 I spent $3500.00 on the ring.
Adjusted for inflation, that's about $5,900. Nice!

I've never been in a relationship, but this is the one thing that always makes me nervous. Not THE one thing, but one of the things. What if she doesn't like it? How do you get it fitted to her finger? Dumb questions, but it's what makes me think
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: King Postwhore on April 24, 2017, 07:36:31 PM
You can get the ring fitted after or if you know a friend that knows or take a ring she wears,  play dumb when you shop.  The can get the size for you.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on April 25, 2017, 07:31:49 AM
You give some and you take some, got to have balance.  Something I've honestly struggled with as someone who is very selfish I admit, but I got to think the "let's" him do things is not so serious and more so phrasing.

And even if it is actually "let", and not phrasing, so what (not targeting this at you, Cram, just saying).   If you do it of your own free will, it's YOUR choice, and everyone else can take their judgment and put it not so gently up their ass.   I know for me, there are absolutely things that my wife "let's" me do - in the sense of "I do it at her leisure", either because it bothers her, or perhaps she sees the downside better than I do, whatever.  We're partners, and her voice, her wisdom, her judgment is important to me.   It's MY choice. 

This macho bullshit that "I'm the man, I'm the king of the house, and what I say goes, fuck her if she doesn't like it!" doesn't work, bro.  And besides, I have two daughters in the house that are looking at us as models for how a relationship might work, and I CERTAINLY don't want my girls to be married to some Neanderthal that expects them to kowtow(boy) to them on every issue.  They are smart, strong, living, breathing free women that ought to have an equal voice in their relationships.

Personally, though I think he's going to blow at a Waffle House someday (I kid, I kid), I think Chino is handling this as maturely and reasonably as one can.     
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 25, 2017, 07:40:06 AM
Oh fuck off.
I understand, but let's try respect our fellow members.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 25, 2017, 07:52:49 AM
Oh fuck off.
I understand, but let's try respect our fellow members.

*removed for cringe*


Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Chino on April 25, 2017, 07:54:22 AM
Personally, though I think he's going to blow at a Waffle House someday (I kid, I kid), I think Chino is handling this as maturely and reasonably as one can.     

That wouldn't be a terrible way to go  :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on April 25, 2017, 08:24:54 AM
I told Mrs. P on the day that she let me propose to her, "I'll do whatever you tell me to as long as we agree upfront that I don't have to." It seems to have worked out pretty well.  :)
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: El Barto on April 25, 2017, 08:45:41 AM
I think Marriage is a pointless tradition that has outlived its usefulness. It probably should have gone away around the time of Charlemagne, and humanity would be wise to forget the whole silly thing. After seeing what Victoria is willing to put up with on Chino's behalf, even I told him to marry the damn girl. The whole "lets you do it" thing is pretty far off base.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Implode on April 25, 2017, 08:51:10 AM
Just reading through this thread. Great discussions. I agree that I can't imagine spending two months salary on a ring. That's just... so much.  :lol

Also,

1) Our dance will be to the BTTF version of Earth Angel

My friends had a wedding recently and did this. It was beautiful.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: mike099 on December 13, 2018, 06:21:55 PM
Bump.  Did not want to start anew thread

Replacing the wife's engagement ring lost 2 years ago.  We have been married 33 years.

If you spent 3k and the choice is one half caret better quality or 3k and the choice is three quarter caret lower quality, which would you choose?   This assumes that the jeweler can show you the paperwork and let me see the difference.

3k is not really a lot of money but I want to pay cash.

It will be a total surprise since I already kidded that we both already got our Christmas gifts. I got an Echelon spin bike and she got a knee replacement with us thankfully only having to pay out 2,500.00 out of pocket.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on December 13, 2018, 09:37:37 PM
she got a knee replacement with us thankfully only having to pay out 2,500.00 out of pocket.

Um...   uh... bro. 

You need to go with the ring. I might spring for the "1/2 carat better quality", if her only gift profile contains a "knee replacement with only $2,500 out of pocket."




(I'm kidding; I'm married, four kids two out of the house already and I know how it goes.  You do what's right for you, and just hoping your wife is back on two legs soon!)
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Grappler on December 14, 2018, 04:49:44 AM
I went with quality over carats.  My wife's ring is a 1/2 carat, but near perfect quality.  I think the salesman pointed out one or two very tiny blemishes.  The other choice was a larger, but less perfect stone.  She's never been concerned with the size of the diamond and prefers the smaller stone over something too big for her hands and gaudy.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Nekov on December 14, 2018, 07:12:05 AM
Nice to see this thread coming up again because I will be proposing to my girlfriend during our next vacations and I need to get a ring. I really want to get her a diamond but prices are a bit ridiculous and we're spending a good amount of money in the trip already. My brother told me that he got a crystal one that looks very similar to a diamond and is much less expensive, but I know my GF will be disappointed with that. Do you guys have a good recommendation?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on December 14, 2018, 07:14:17 AM
<Waiting for Nekov's girlfriend to post "Thanks for blowing the surprise.  I'm right here!">

(Just kidding!!  Congratulations!)
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: TAC on December 14, 2018, 07:15:15 AM
Do you guys have a good recommendation?

Yes. DON'T get the crystal. :lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: King Postwhore on December 14, 2018, 09:32:25 AM
Do you guys have a good recommendation?

Yes. DON'T get the crystal. :lol

 :lol

Yeah, don't make that mistake.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: bosk1 on December 14, 2018, 09:41:17 AM
If you spent 3k and the choice is one half caret better quality or 3k and the choice is three quarter caret lower quality, which would you choose?   This assumes that the jeweler can show you the paperwork and let me see the difference.

I would say it really depends on your wife's preference.  Do you think she would care more about size or clarity?  I know for my wife, the clarity probably would not make as much difference.  But some would want the higher clarity, even knowing that in 99% of situations you are in in real life, nobody would be able to tell the difference.  It just depends on what you think she would value.  And if you don't know, to me that means it is more likely that she doesn't care enough to have ever made a fuss about it, so you might be better off with the slightly bigger diamond of slightly lesser clarity.  That's my two cents.

But a bigger preliminary question is:  Where are you buying?  I would NOT buy from a typical mall or chain jeweler.  Their overhead is through the roof, and the cost gets passed on to you.  I would do some serious due diligence among friends, family, and coworkers and try to find an independent jeweler that they trust.  If you are in N. Cal., PM me and I can give you a recommendation.  But either way, ask around.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: mike099 on December 14, 2018, 10:08:24 AM
Nice to see this thread coming up again because I will be proposing to my girlfriend during our next vacations and I need to get a ring. I really want to get her a diamond but prices are a bit ridiculous and we're spending a good amount of money in the trip already. My brother told me that he got a crystal one that looks very similar to a diamond and is much less expensive, but I know my GF will be disappointed with that. Do you guys have a good recommendation?

Yes, I agree get the real diamond, but is she really going to know by looking.  My wife knows how cheap I am so she will probably get it appraised if I do not provide paperwork that looks authentic.  I wonder how many guys have gone the diamond look alike route, not told the fiancé and then she found out later, even much later in the marriage or after a divorce when going to hock the ring.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: mike099 on December 14, 2018, 10:12:02 AM
If you spent 3k and the choice is one half caret better quality or 3k and the choice is three quarter caret lower quality, which would you choose?   This assumes that the jeweler can show you the paperwork and let me see the difference.

I would say it really depends on your wife's preference.  Do you think she would care more about size or clarity?  I know for my wife, the clarity probably would not make as much difference.  But some would want the higher clarity, even knowing that in 99% of situations you are in in real life, nobody would be able to tell the difference.  It just depends on what you think she would value.  And if you don't know, to me that means it is more likely that she doesn't care enough to have ever made a fuss about it, so you might be better off with the slightly bigger diamond of slightly lesser clarity.  That's my two cents.

But a bigger preliminary question is:  Where are you buying?  I would NOT buy from a typical mall or chain jeweler.  Their overhead is through the roof, and the cost gets passed on to you.  I would do some serious due diligence among friends, family, and coworkers and try to find an independent jeweler that they trust.  If you are in N. Cal., PM me and I can give you a recommendation.  But either way, ask around.

Thanks for the opinion.  I am going to an independent in nashville, tn. that I have done business with in the past.  They have been in business for about 20 years at the same location and do very little advertising.  They do a lot of mens room urinal advertising and at the YMCA.  That is probably a good return on investment.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Grappler on December 14, 2018, 10:16:35 AM
But a bigger preliminary question is:  Where are you buying?  I would NOT buy from a typical mall or chain jeweler.  Their overhead is through the roof, and the cost gets passed on to you.  I would do some serious due diligence among friends, family, and coworkers and try to find an independent jeweler that they trust.  If you are in N. Cal., PM me and I can give you a recommendation.  But either way, ask around.

I bought my wife's ring from Jared and while the cost may have been higher up-front, they also provide some services after your purchase, so I feel we have more than made up any increased cost by taking advantage of these.  Maybe a neighborhood jeweler offers these too, but I've been very happy with the service we've received. 

1.  Semi-annual ring cleanings for free, for life.

2.  Annual ring inspections for free, for life (they found a broken prong and repaired it FOR FREE.)

3.  Diamond buy-back option/Serial number.  Each of their diamonds has a microscopic serial number engraved in it.  Our paperwork matches the ID, so if stolen and recovered, we can prove our ownership.   They will also buy it back with the paperwork matching the ID, should we wish to upgrade and my wife is ok with parting with it (if she wants to save it for sentimental value or to pass down as an heirloom, then yes, we'd have to buy a new stone for an upgrade). 



My advice - buy a real diamond.  Buying a cheap look-a-like just sends a message that you don't think your partner is worth the real thing.  Nothing looks better than seeing my wife's diamond sparkle after she has it cleaned. 
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: vtgrad on December 14, 2018, 10:42:08 AM
If you spent 3k and the choice is one half caret better quality or 3k and the choice is three quarter caret lower quality, which would you choose?   This assumes that the jeweler can show you the paperwork and let me see the difference.

I would say it really depends on your wife's preference.  Do you think she would care more about size or clarity?  I know for my wife, the clarity probably would not make as much difference.  But some would want the higher clarity, even knowing that in 99% of situations you are in in real life, nobody would be able to tell the difference.  It just depends on what you think she would value.  And if you don't know, to me that means it is more likely that she doesn't care enough to have ever made a fuss about it, so you might be better off with the slightly bigger diamond of slightly lesser clarity.  That's my two cents.

But a bigger preliminary question is:  Where are you buying?  I would NOT buy from a typical mall or chain jeweler.  Their overhead is through the roof, and the cost gets passed on to you.  I would do some serious due diligence among friends, family, and coworkers and try to find an independent jeweler that they trust.  If you are in N. Cal., PM me and I can give you a recommendation.  But either way, ask around.

Thanks for the opinion.  I am going to an independent in nashville, tn. that I have done business with in the past.  They have been in business for about 20 years at the same location and do very little advertising.  They do a lot of mens room urinal advertising and at the YMCA.  That is probably a good return on investment.

Holy sh!t.   :rollin  One of the funniest things I've ever read whether it's true or not.  :lol

I went with Blue Nile and couldn't have been happier... actually went back and purchased diamonds for earrings and a pendant.  You buy the stones separately and Blue Nile will build the piece for you.  Had the stones for each piece checked by a GIA gemologist and compared their findings to the certs I received... everything was kosher. 

Following what other wiser sages here have said, go with the Diamond.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: mike099 on December 14, 2018, 12:17:04 PM
If you spent 3k and the choice is one half caret better quality or 3k and the choice is three quarter caret lower quality, which would you choose?   This assumes that the jeweler can show you the paperwork and let me see the difference.

I would say it really depends on your wife's preference.  Do you think she would care more about size or clarity?  I know for my wife, the clarity probably would not make as much difference.  But some would want the higher clarity, even knowing that in 99% of situations you are in in real life, nobody would be able to tell the difference.  It just depends on what you think she would value.  And if you don't know, to me that means it is more likely that she doesn't care enough to have ever made a fuss about it, so you might be better off with the slightly bigger diamond of slightly lesser clarity.  That's my two cents.

But a bigger preliminary question is:  Where are you buying?  I would NOT buy from a typical mall or chain jeweler.  Their overhead is through the roof, and the cost gets passed on to you.  I would do some serious due diligence among friends, family, and coworkers and try to find an independent jeweler that they trust.  If you are in N. Cal., PM me and I can give you a recommendation.  But either way, ask around.

Thanks for the opinion.  I am going to an independent in nashville, tn. that I have done business with in the past.  They have been in business for about 20 years at the same location and do very little advertising.  They do a lot of mens room urinal advertising and at the YMCA.  That is probably a good return on investment.

Holy sh!t.   :rollin  One of the funniest things I've ever read whether it's true or not.  :lol

I went with Blue Nile and couldn't have been happier... actually went back and purchased diamonds for earrings and a pendant.  You buy the stones separately and Blue Nile will build the piece for you.  Had the stones for each piece checked by a GIA gemologist and compared their findings to the certs I received... everything was kosher. 

Following what other wiser sages here have said, go with the Diamond.

Holy sh!t.   :rollin  One of the funniest things I've ever read whether it's true or not.  :lol 

Yes, it really is true.  Here is Nashville, Tennessee, there is advertising in the men's rooms at restaurants and at the YMCA.   Besides jewelry stores, the usual male advertising for trucks, truck accessories and even pet shelters.
 
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 21, 2018, 05:28:43 AM
Nice to see this thread coming up again because I will be proposing to my girlfriend during our next vacations and I need to get a ring. I really want to get her a diamond but prices are a bit ridiculous and we're spending a good amount of money in the trip already. My brother told me that he got a crystal one that looks very similar to a diamond and is much less expensive, but I know my GF will be disappointed with that. Do you guys have a good recommendation?
If she is not a super traditional girl who wants a huge rock, maybe you could go with an alternative stone - something with a bit of color or not a traditional shape. If she is more traditional, RIP your wallet ;D

I can't speak for all women, but things like these have always been very important to me - not so much the price of the ring, but the selection, making sure it's something lovely that fits her personality. Just putting some thought into it is so important. Sure, when you think about it rationally, it makes zero sense why a proposal with a diamond ring should be required, and knowing what the root of that tradition is sours it, but most of our traditions are nonsensical with weird or even unsavoury origin stories, and yet people care... about Christmas, in Christian countries. Mother's Day, in most Anglo countries. Serbian slava (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava). And I think a lot of women care about being proposed to, because it's a universal experience (so far) among the vast majority of married couples, and not having it makes you feel left out.

It always saddens me how me and my husband missed the boat on that - we got married so I could live abroad with him, when he suggested getting married he didn't think about proposing, and I didn't think about getting engaged either. In the ten months between agreeing to get married and getting married we spent about six weeks together due to being fairly long distance, and the last few visits, I can't lie, I kinda hoped that something more formal than "I think the best thing to do right now is for us to get married as soon as possible" would happen after all, ring or no ring. I intend to be married until death does us part, so it's a little sad we'll never have that moment. Having said that, it was sweet that afterward we went over to my mom's and he officially asked her if she wouldn't mind him whisking me away to the land of ice and snow :angel:

So like... diamonds are expensive, alternatives range from kinda cheap to kinda expensive, but the thought and the event is priceless imo.

If anyone reading this thread would like to know how to find out what their future wife would like, I have a lot of great tips! My best tip is to ask one of her best and most discrete female friends to start a conversation about wedding rings by showing her what she would like to wear, or asking all of her friends if they ever talked about that, because chances are, they have. Also, maybe she has a Pinterest board about the kind of wedding she would like, or an account on Etsy, and Facebook and Instagram display likes so nowadays, if she likes a ring or a jeweler or a style of jewelry you can figure it out just by having social networks.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Nekov on December 21, 2018, 07:44:38 AM
Thanks Mora. I'm putting a lot more thought into the actual proposal than the ring itself. I do have an idea of what kind of ring she would like and next week I'm going to go shopping for it since it should be a quite one at work. As far as the proposal, I'll do in in February/March while we are on holiday in Southeast Asia. I have a couple of options based on the places we are going to visit. I'll try to be ready and see when the moment really calls for it.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on December 21, 2018, 07:58:23 AM
I kind of like - and veyr much agree with - your thoughts on the notion of "tradition".   

Having said that, it was sweet that afterward we went over to my mom's and he officially asked her if she wouldn't mind him whisking me away to the land of ice and snow :angel:

I've written here about how my stepdaughter "eloped" a couple weeks/months ago, and generally most of the family isn't thrilled with her choice, and oddly, for me, this is the part that bothers me the most.   I get they don't have a ton of cash, I get that he's in the Army and so he's limited in time and scope, and I get that the heart wants what the heart wants, and so while he's a piece of crap generally, she "loves" him.  So be it.  But that fucker could have come over and asked her mom - even if symbolically - to marry her daughter.  Hell, I was in my late forties, we were both previously married with kids and I went and asked my current wife's parents for "permission".   They both superficially laughed at me and called me "ridiculous", but it created a bond and now, a couple years later, I'm closer to them than any of the other "spouses" in the family, and even, in some ways, than their own son.  It's always the little things, I'm finding out in this life.

Quote
My best tip is to ask one of her best and most discrete female friends...

Does such a creature exist?   I KID!  I KID!  I KID!   
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Nekov on December 21, 2018, 09:52:14 AM
Well, I think that tradition has mostly died out. In this days of women fighting for their rights and their freedom it's just weird to ask her parents for permission like she was some kind of object they could deny. I know it's mostly a symbolic thing, but it still rubs me the wrong way.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on December 21, 2018, 10:06:55 AM
Well, I think that tradition has mostly died out. In this days of women fighting for their rights and their freedom it's just weird to ask her parents for permission like she was some kind of object they could deny. I know it's mostly a symbolic thing, but it still rubs me the wrong way.

No argument; I totally get that.  It's more of a family thing though.  I think "blessing" is more accurate than "permission".  In my case, her ex treated her like a bag of trash, and so I wanted to send the message that if nothing else, I was going to treat her and her family with a level of respect that they might not have seen before. 
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: ReaperKK on December 22, 2018, 02:05:00 PM
I've only skimmed this thread the past couple of pages (sorry I've been drinking) but I guess I'm in the minority because I bought my now finance a moissanite ring. She actually picked it out and loves it, it cost about 3k and I think it's really nice. If she had wanted a real diamond I would've gotten it for her but she said she'd rather spend the money on the wedding/honeymoon.

I kind of like - and veyr much agree with - your thoughts on the notion of "tradition".   

Having said that, it was sweet that afterward we went over to my mom's and he officially asked her if she wouldn't mind him whisking me away to the land of ice and snow :angel:

I've written here about how my stepdaughter "eloped" a couple weeks/months ago, and generally most of the family isn't thrilled with her choice, and oddly, for me, this is the part that bothers me the most.   I get they don't have a ton of cash, I get that he's in the Army and so he's limited in time and scope, and I get that the heart wants what the heart wants, and so while he's a piece of crap generally, she "loves" him.  So be it.  But that fucker could have come over and asked her mom - even if symbolically - to marry her daughter.  Hell, I was in my late forties, we were both previously married with kids and I went and asked my current wife's parents for "permission".   They both superficially laughed at me and called me "ridiculous", but it created a bond and now, a couple years later, I'm closer to them than any of the other "spouses" in the family, and even, in some ways, than their own son.  It's always the little things, I'm finding out in this life.

Quote
My best tip is to ask one of her best and most discrete female friends...

Does such a creature exist?   I KID!  I KID!  I KID!   

So I asked my gf's dad for permission. I was against it initially because I don't really believe in the tradition but after some major health issues with my gf's father and how my gf was really stressed about him being healthy enough to walk her down the isle I sort of put my beliefs aside and decided to ask him for permission. It was actually pretty hilarious. We were all at the beach about a month before I proposed and I asked if he wanted to go grab lunch with me to bring back for my gf and her mom. We got to the car to get lunch and I asked him for permission and he was just stunned, then he started crying, it was a pretty sweet moment.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 27, 2018, 08:26:54 AM
I asked my father-in-law for his permission/blessing.  But I waited until after I actually proposed to my wife lol
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: jingle.boy on December 28, 2018, 04:50:20 AM
I too asked FIL for 'permission'.  mrs.jingle was still living at home, and FIL/MIL went to work together every morning at like 5am.  One night when I was staying over about a week before I popped the question, I got up early and left at the same time.  In the driveway as they're about to get in the car, I ask... and his response?  "Talk to her mother".

 :rollin :rollin

There's a man who knows who's the boss.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Nekov on December 28, 2018, 05:08:12 AM
 :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on December 28, 2018, 09:17:00 AM
Yeah, so, at our solstice party last Friday, daughter #2's live in beau asked for my blessing for him to marry her. It was very awkward because I don't really know the guy well, he's ten years older than her, on disability, and works a crummy minimum wage job. All that being said, he seems nice enough and daughter2 seems happier than she's been in many a year. Part of that, I suspect, is that her boyfriend has a two-year old son and she really digs taking care of the boy.

I told him that I don't think it's my role (or right) to approve or disapprove of my adult children's choices but that I'm pleased she seems happy with him. That's enough for me.

Then, then, SMH...after the dinner, everyone was having fun chatting, joking, and digesting. This guy (who barely knows any of us) wants to make a toast and gets half the room's attention (keep in mind there are eighteen of us). Well my two youngest granddaughters (at the other end of the table) are messing around, singing Christmas carols in funny voices to the amusement of the adults at that end. This guy proceeds to yell, angrily, "SHUT UP! I need your attention!"

He made his toast (to the military) and everyone, pretty shocked and subdued now, responds woodenly. The party moved on and we wound up having a good evening in spite of it.

Here's the hard part: Mrs. P and I never yell at anyone. We have never raised a hand in violence to any of our kids...we never really had to. A disapproving look and quiet one-on-one lecture was all that we ever needed to curb behavior we don't approve of. Our philosophy is that family, and especially our home, should be a safe place to enjoy each other's company free of fear and strife. A safe shore from the trials of the larger world, so to speak.

So, what do I do with this guy? My plan is to take him aside and explain the above to him and point out that the family looks to me to ensure the peace. That I expect him to respect our ways if he plans to be included in our family gatherings.

But then, it occurred to me this morning (at 2:00 am in the dark). If he's willing to dominate and yell at near total strangers, how is he treating my daughter when no one is around? She's thirty years old. Do I have the right to stick my nose in and ask?

Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on December 28, 2018, 09:23:45 AM
Was he drunk?  Just wondering if that could play into why he would yell at two children he doesn't know well.  I grew up in a house with a lot of yelling so I don't think that would phase me too much personally, but being children you hardly know, that definitely would trigger me as well.  Since you mention your house being a safe zone, I think it's safe to say you should have that talk with him to make him aware of it.  Now that he asked for your permission you can ask him to play by the rules in your house.  I think that's fair.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on December 28, 2018, 09:34:41 AM
Nah, interestingly enough, he doesn't drink. I've gotten the impression that it's due to some religious restriction, although I've never been around him enough to ask.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Dr. DTVT on December 28, 2018, 10:23:38 AM
I asked my father-in-law for his permission/blessing.  But I waited until after I actually proposed to my wife lol

What’s that saying, “it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission”?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: jingle.boy on December 28, 2018, 11:01:19 AM
I grew up in a house with a lot of yelling so I don't think that would phase me too much personally, but being children you hardly know, that definitely would trigger me as well.  Since you mention your house being a safe zone, I think it's safe to say you should have that talk with him to make him aware of it.  Now that he asked for your permission you can ask him to play by the rules in your house.  I think that's fair.

Agree with both of Marc's points here.  mrs.jingle grew up in a house where anger was expressed thru volume.  Me... not so much, and it's been a very significant point of contention and struggle for both of us our entire marriage.  She thinks it's normal and doesn't have good control over it sometimes; to me, yelling/shouting is borderline intolerable, and often a trigger for my depression.  I digress...

Your future SIL could simply not have any perspective or second thought that volume isn't acceptable.  I'd just as concerned with the 'shut up' part.  That's just kinda rude.  But... again, could be a matter of his perspective/upbringing where he thinks that behaviour is normal.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: TAC on December 28, 2018, 05:24:23 PM
I told him that I don't think it's my role (or right) to approve or disapprove of my adult children's choices

Sounds like a NO to me! :lol

I have been married twice and I never even considered asking my future FIL'(s) permission.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Orbert on December 28, 2018, 09:00:06 PM
My wife's father had died a few years before I met her, so he was never in the picture.  Her mom liked me, so I had that going for me.  They both said that he would have liked me, and would have approved.  I guess that's good to know.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on December 29, 2018, 09:22:27 AM
So, what do I do with this guy? My plan is to take him aside and explain the above to him and point out that the family looks to me to ensure the peace. That I expect him to respect our ways if he plans to be included in our family gatherings.

I would absolutely have that conversation.   If he wants to be part of the family, he needs to know the vibe, the culture, the temperament of the family.  I had no problem sitting my step-daughter's son down and having that conversation.   (He didn't listen, and basically lied right to our faces, but now I digress...)

Quote
But then, it occurred to me this morning (at 2:00 am in the dark). If he's willing to dominate and yell at near total strangers, how is he treating my daughter when no one is around? She's thirty years old. Do I have the right to stick my nose in and ask?

It's your daughter.  You have the right to ask her anything you want; she, of course, has the right to not answer, but you have the right - nay, I would say the OBLIGATION - to make sure her well-being is being preserved.   

My opinion only.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 02, 2019, 09:04:13 AM
I agree with ^Stadler^
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: bosk1 on January 02, 2019, 09:22:17 AM
Same here.  To me, there's little harm in having the conversation, and potentially plenty to gain by either (1) him taking it to heart, (2) him rejecting it and exposing himself to be a jerk, (3) the two of you not agreeing, but at least coming to a bit of an understanding of one another, or (4) something else I haven't thought of. 

And I wouldn't necessarily assume that just because he raised his voice to kids that he might be mistreating your daughter.  He may just, for example, view the two situations as completely different and feel that children need to be quiet and automatically snap to attention whenever adults are speaking, but have no such similar thought process relating to your daughter or any other adult.  I'm not defending it, but just saying that there could be a lot of different ways to look at it that are not necessarily him potentially mistreating your daughter.  You don't know until you try having the "friendly" conversation.

EDIT:  And I just thought of something else I will add as well.  I have no doubt whatsoever of your ability to have a respectful "man-to-man" conversation that is not in any way inappropriate.  Unfortunately, that does NOT guarantee that it will be received well.  If it isn't and the relationship between you and he becomes a bit icy as a result, I wouldn't take it personally.  If he sticks around and is indeed a good guy who is even slightly inclined to be introspective, it just may be that right now, he is not mature enough or otherwise ready to receive the message, for whatever reason.  But he may very well reach a point later in life where he reflects back on it and, as a result, comes to have a VERY high degree of respect for you for saying something.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on January 02, 2019, 11:50:46 AM
Thanks for your thoughtful replies, folks. It probably won't surprise you that I came to the same conclusions myself and fully intend to have the conversation with him. I also intend confirm with my daughter that our home is, as always, a safe place should she ever need it (which I'm sure she already knows).

So far, the opportunity hasn't come up, since we've not been with them since the 21st.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 04, 2019, 05:17:18 AM
Well, I think that tradition has mostly died out. In this days of women fighting for their rights and their freedom it's just weird to ask her parents for permission like she was some kind of object they could deny. I know it's mostly a symbolic thing, but it still rubs me the wrong way.

No argument; I totally get that.  It's more of a family thing though.  I think "blessing" is more accurate than "permission".  In my case, her ex treated her like a bag of trash, and so I wanted to send the message that if nothing else, I was going to treat her and her family with a level of respect that they might not have seen before.
Yeah, pretty much just "hey, I'm hoping to become a part of your family and I respect you".

Podaar, he might just come from a yelling family, but in any case he needs to know you're not a yelling family. Also reinforce to your daughter that she can always come to you, with any problem. Some people don't like complaining about their SOs to their parents, because time goes by and your relationship improves but your mom or dad is still mad at your boy/girlfriend  :biggrin: but hopefully she knows how to differentiate between complaints that need to be logged with the parents and those that don't.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Nekov on March 15, 2019, 06:51:36 PM
So, this happened  :D

(https://i.ibb.co/JrfsYtd/20190228-180027.jpg)

Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: ReaperKK on March 15, 2019, 08:29:19 PM
Congrats!! That's so exciting. How did the proposal go?
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Orbert on March 15, 2019, 09:39:42 PM
Congratulations!
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 16, 2019, 08:33:05 AM
Congrats!  :tup    Very Exciting..
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Nekov on March 16, 2019, 01:25:24 PM
Congrats!! That's so exciting. How did the proposal go?
It was a bit of a mess  :lol. I was nervous and kinda improvised what I said, she got super nervous when I did it and was too surprised to be immediately happy, but all in all it was good. We are both very happy  :smiley:
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on March 18, 2019, 08:28:19 AM
I sort of misread that picture.  I took it as you pulled some unsuspecting girl into a hedge and stole her ring.  But congratulations anyway!  :)
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Nekov on March 18, 2019, 10:20:26 AM
I sort of misread that picture.  I took it as you pulled some unsuspecting girl into a hedge and stole her ring.  But congratulations anyway!  :)

 :lol Thanks Stads  :smiley:
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Nekov on February 03, 2021, 04:04:18 PM
Well, almost 2 years have passed since that last post and we finally tied the knot today. It was very stressful to organize everything during the pandemic but fortunately for us everything went better than expected. I promise I'll post some pics as soon as the photographer sends them to me, which probably won't happen for another couple of weeks since I'm going on my honeymoon 2 days from now.
I'll share this instagram screenshot for now.

(https://i.ibb.co/DzFbyYW/IMG-20210203-WA0009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pbTP8Qw)
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Podaar on February 03, 2021, 04:09:24 PM
 :heart

Congrats!
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: ReaperKK on February 03, 2021, 04:40:33 PM
Congratulations!!
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Lonk on February 03, 2021, 07:00:17 PM
Congrats
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: TAC on February 03, 2021, 07:02:10 PM
That's awesome Nekov!
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Nick on February 03, 2021, 07:05:24 PM
Had forgotten about this thread and didn't ever really think I'd be revisiting, but here is what I bought:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/854791072/155-irish-celtic-claddagh-red-ruby-cz?ref=hp_rv-4&pro=1&frs=1

She wears a claggagh anyway, and it has my birth stone in the heart. I honestly didn't mean to go quite this cheap, but really there was not nearly the market I expected for premium claddagh rings.

After the proposal I let her know that if she preferred a traditional engagement ring we would get one together for her, but she quickly declined and has raved about the ring to people.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: TAC on February 03, 2021, 07:10:31 PM
That's nice Nick!

My wife and I (each of us had been married before), I bought her a sapphire (her preference) ring with small diamonds on it. She said she didn't want a diamond. But I did end up getting one for our 10 year anniversary.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on February 03, 2021, 07:59:00 PM
See, I was the other way around.  This was our second marriage, and while I have a simple silver-is band (I think it was $45), but she got the short shrift from her previous husband ring-wise, and for no other reason than I wanted to send the message that things were different this time I did buy her a diamond.  I didn't go all Kardashian or anything, but I felt this was more than just tradition or "expectation".
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: jingle.boy on February 04, 2021, 05:00:20 AM
Congrats Diego. Very happy for you.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Nekov on February 04, 2021, 05:21:34 AM
Thank you guys  :laugh:

Also, congrats Nick. I love that you went for such an original idea
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: cramx3 on February 04, 2021, 09:35:09 AM
Congrats Nekov!

And Nick, I wish I could land a girl who would be thrilled with a ring that didn't break the bank.  Jersey girls are a different breed.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: Stadler on February 04, 2021, 09:38:29 AM
Congrats Nekov!

And Nick, I wish I could land a girl who would be thrilled with a ring that didn't break the bank.  Jersey girls are a different breed.

HAHAHA.
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 04, 2021, 10:40:26 AM
Congrats, Nekov!

Nick, that ring looks super cool!
Title: Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
Post by: jingle.boy on February 04, 2021, 11:58:44 AM
Had forgotten about this thread and didn't ever really think I'd be revisiting, but here is what I bought:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/854791072/155-irish-celtic-claddagh-red-ruby-cz?ref=hp_rv-4&pro=1&frs=1

She wears a claggagh anyway, and it has my birth stone in the heart. I honestly didn't mean to go quite this cheap, but really there was not nearly the market I expected for premium claddagh rings.

After the proposal I let her know that if she preferred a traditional engagement ring we would get one together for her, but she quickly declined and has raved about the ring to people.

See, and I thought you got this cuz it looked a little like your 'Kings" Rush tattoo.

#NotEvenKidding