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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Serah Farron on February 27, 2017, 10:16:51 AM
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So I was involved in a major car accident with a motorcyclist and since it wasn't caught on camera and the witnesses all have different statements, so they said it could go any way.
So I was in a two way stop intersection. I was on a small road and the driving vehicles were in a major road, 3 lanes both west and eastbound, no turning lanes. So I was headed north bound on a street and wanted to continue across, pushing past 6 lanes of traffic. It was pretty heavy traffic. The cars headed eastbound all yielded for me so I creeped out to the intersection. The cars headed westbound also yielded for me (all the lanes), so I proceeded across when suddenly a motorcycle just rams into the side of my car.
I'm not sure of his condition, but I really hope he is OK. I had shards of glass stuck in me and whiplash, but that was it.
People say it's my fault because
1) It was the motorcycles right of way, no matter who yielded for me, he still had the right of way.
People also say it was his fault because:
1) He was going 60-65 in a 35 zone and was driving recklessly.
Overall, how will the results turn out? It has been very traumatic and I really hope he is OK.
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I have no idea, but I hope you're okay. That sounds awful.
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Was a police report filed? In Illinois, the reports are structured in a specific way, listing "Unit 1" and "Unit 2" for each vehicle. It is not specifically stated, but the common thought is that when a police officer completes the report, the vehicle/driver listed as Unit 1 is believed to be at fault based on the officer's investigation.
If this were me, I'd consistently point out that the damage to your car is on the side, and the damage to his motorcycle is on the front, showing that he struck your car. Yes, there are other variables like right-of-way issues and the speed of both vehicles, but it boils down to him striking you. You could also file a claim on his insurance policy (or yours and provide his insurance info to your insurer) and let the two insurers figure it out.
I've also learned to not try and cross three lanes of traffic each way - I'll make a right turn, find a place to turn around, and then go the way I need, if traffic is heavy.
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How would you have been expected to cross that traffic under perfect conditions? There are no lights or stop signs?
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The cars headed westbound also yielded for me (all the lanes), so I proceeded across when suddenly a motorcycle just rams into the side of my car.
Based on this, the motorcyclist must not have been in a lane, but in a shoulder or whitelining. Unless you are in California, that is illegal.
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How would you have been expected to cross that traffic under perfect conditions? There are no lights or stop signs?
My question also. If there is no actual mechanism for crossing, you may be found at fault just for that fact alone.
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I'm having a hard time putting the scenery together in my head. I've never seen an intersection where 6 lanes yield (this is a topic where word choice is important) to perpendicular traffic. Were people yielding to you by law, or were they yielding out of politeness? If it was out of politeness, I'd say it was you at fault unfortunately. Can you give us an address so we can see the intersection on Google Maps?
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If this were me, I'd consistently point out that the damage to your car is on the side, and the damage to his motorcycle is on the front, showing that he struck your car. Yes, there are other variables like right-of-way issues and the speed of both vehicles, but it boils down to him striking you. You could also file a claim on his insurance policy (or yours and provide his insurance info to your insurer) and let the two insurers figure it out.
Right of way should take precedent. If I blow a red light and you broadside my car because your flow had green, I'm at fault.
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First off, a location of the accident would be swell, so we can actually see the lay of the land in G-Maps.
Second, my initial thinking is that this one is on you. If you had a stop sign the onus was on you to be sure it was safe to cross.
With that said, Jasc15 raises a very good point. If he was moving between traffic or on the shoulder then all bets are off. His speeding isn't going to mean much because he still had the right of way, but not being in his own lane (and I know how Californians love riding between the lands) would change things considerably.
And lastly, the sort of intersection she describes is commonplace down here. You wait until there's a space or you do what Grappler does and you turn right. That's one of the reasons I drive a speedy car.
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You motherf*ckers need roundabouts.
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I'll answer the questions later, but I have time to only post the intersection for now.
Search up 3297 Seneca Drive.
I was headed North on Seneca Drive. The motorcycle was headed west on Desert Inn Road.
Also another detail, there's another yellow lane in the middle as you can see.
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Ohhhh. Yea I have to cross intersections like that pretty often. Luckily I go at a time where there are plenty of opportunities with no cares coming either way.
Tricky. I think the best question asked thus far is if a police report was filed.
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https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1297036,-115.1260175,3a,75y,4.31h,79.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srTEeWjfDaENlgtMtiPkx9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
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I hate to say it, but I think this is on you unless there is witness testimony and police agreement that the motorcyclist was speeding and/or whitelining. The fact that it's a two-way stop puts the onus on you as the one crossing traffic to make sure you have safe passage. Even traffic yielding in both directions doesn't transfer right-of-way, they are just being courteous.
I really hope you're okay, though. Whiplash is a bitch. :(
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If this were me, I'd consistently point out that the damage to your car is on the side, and the damage to his motorcycle is on the front, showing that he struck your car. Yes, there are other variables like right-of-way issues and the speed of both vehicles, but it boils down to him striking you. You could also file a claim on his insurance policy (or yours and provide his insurance info to your insurer) and let the two insurers figure it out.
Right of way should take precedent. If I blow a red light and you broadside my car because your flow had green, I'm at fault.
I agree - if someone is crossing traffic in a 2-way stop sign intersection like that, right of way belongs to the cars driving, not to stopped cars attempting to cross the lanes. Just providing a different perspective, if he really feels that he should not be at fault, based on a situation that my family experienced years ago.
My brother was involved in an accident where he was driving a vehicle and while turning in an intersection, he "struck" a "pedestrian" who was riding their bicycle in the crosswalk. She actually rode her bike into the side of his vehicle, as he was committed to the turn and she could not stop the bicycle in time, yet he was ticketed for failing to yield to a pedestrian. My brother was younger and adamant that he was not at fault, since she struck his car with her bicycle. Illinois rules of the road state that if you're riding a bike in a crosswalk, you are a motor vehicle, not a pedestrian, so the ticket was thrown out and he was not at fault for the accident, regardless of who would have been at fault.
So yes, there are all sorts of variables and circumstances. My gut says that he is at fault, since he was trying to cross a busy intersection and another vehicle struck his, but a police report may confirm what the officer believes to have happened.
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I hate to say it, but I think this is on you unless there is witness testimony and police agreement that the motorcyclist was speeding and/or whitelining. The fact that it's a two-way stop puts the onus on you as the one crossing traffic to make sure you have safe passage. Even traffic yielding in both directions doesn't transfer right-of-way, they are just being courteous.
I really hope you're okay, though. Whiplash is a bitch. :(
This is where I began, but if E & W yielded to her I have to think there was heavy traffic. Nobody's going to yield like that if they're all doing 35. If that's the case then the whitelining hypothesis sounds all the more likely. My ruling is that if he had a lane to himself then he had the right of way. If he was passing between cars he has dick.
And my advice to Serah, while this might be "technically" your fault, a guy who blows past stopped vehicles on a motorcycle is asking to get clobbered. (I drive a 3500 lb car, and if there are cars stopped I'll slow to a crawl before passing them. That's just common sense.) You can only go so far to protect idiots from idiocy and you shouldn't feel too bad about this.
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I have no idea, but I hope you're okay. That sounds awful.
When that impact occurred, it was very scary. I remember being frozen in my seat for God knows how long. It's still pretty fresh in my head, but I think I"m getting better. Thanks. :)
Was a police report filed? In Illinois, the reports are structured in a specific way, listing "Unit 1" and "Unit 2" for each vehicle. It is not specifically stated, but the common thought is that when a police officer completes the report, the vehicle/driver listed as Unit 1 is believed to be at fault based on the officer's investigation.
I've also learned to not try and cross three lanes of traffic each way - I'll make a right turn, find a place to turn around, and then go the way I need, if traffic is heavy.
Yep. The police report was filed and I asked for it by mail. I'm still waiting for it to come to the mail. And that is a good idea. I usually get impatient trying to make a right then a turn, so I just wait until I'm able to drive forward. Also, this road was the first time I took it so I stupidly didn't have knowledge of the traffic conditions or whether there was a light or not. Waze loves giving me dangerous directions.....it makes me take lefts and straight's in uncontrolled intersections.
How would you have been expected to cross that traffic under perfect conditions? There are no lights or stop signs?
The cars headed westbound also yielded for me (all the lanes), so I proceeded across when suddenly a motorcycle just rams into the side of my car.
Based on this, the motorcyclist must not have been in a lane, but in a shoulder or whitelining. Unless you are in California, that is illegal.
I am not in California. :)
But I wasn't sure what he was doing.
How would you have been expected to cross that traffic under perfect conditions? There are no lights or stop signs?
My question also. If there is no actual mechanism for crossing, you may be found at fault just for that fact alone.
I guess it's just wait and hope that they will yield for you or just gun it when there are no cars. Dangerous intersection...don't know what I was thinking. There were unfortunately no mechanisms for crossing, as it was shown in Google Maps. :(
I'm having a hard time putting the scenery together in my head. I've never seen an intersection where 6 lanes yield (this is a topic where word choice is important) to perpendicular traffic. Were people yielding to you by law, or were they yielding out of politeness? If it was out of politeness, I'd say it was you at fault unfortunately. Can you give us an address so we can see the intersection on Google Maps?
Yeah, they were being polite. When one car yielded, the rest did too.
Tricky. I think the best question asked thus far is if a police report was filed.
Yep, it was. Still waiting for it. :)
I hate to say it, but I think this is on you unless there is witness testimony and police agreement that the motorcyclist was speeding and/or whitelining. The fact that it's a two-way stop puts the onus on you as the one crossing traffic to make sure you have safe passage. Even traffic yielding in both directions doesn't transfer right-of-way, they are just being courteous.
I really hope you're okay, though. Whiplash is a bitch. :(
Ah...that sucks. But oh well, I deserve it...
It still kinda hurts to turn my neck, but it's getting better and bettere. Thank you. :)
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I hate to say it, but I think this is on you unless there is witness testimony and police agreement that the motorcyclist was speeding and/or whitelining. The fact that it's a two-way stop puts the onus on you as the one crossing traffic to make sure you have safe passage. Even traffic yielding in both directions doesn't transfer right-of-way, they are just being courteous.
I really hope you're okay, though. Whiplash is a bitch. :(
This is where I began, but if E & W yielded to her I have to think there was heavy traffic. Nobody's going to yield like that if they're all doing 35. If that's the case then the whitelining hypothesis sounds all the more likely. My ruling is that if he had a lane to himself then he had the right of way. If he was passing between cars he has dick.
And my advice to Serah, while this might be "technically" your fault, a guy who blows past stopped vehicles on a motorcycle is asking to get clobbered. (I drive a 3500 lb car, and if there are cars stopped I'll slow to a crawl before passing them. That's just common sense.) You can only go so far to protect idiots from idiocy and you shouldn't feel too bad about this.
Yeah, it was pretty heavy. The eastbound traffic (the first batch that yielded to me) was the heaviest while the westboud traffic was mostly free, but when they saw me blocking the eastbound traffic, the left most car stopped then the middle and the right followed. I waited for like 3 seconds making sure they were going to yield, raised my hand, then hurried out of the intersection. Just when the head of my car reached the other side of Seneca Drive, the motorist hit the side.
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Also, another problem would be a lawyer. Should I get a lawyer? I've heard many different answers, but one said that I should only get a lawyer if they file a claim and they sue me for over what my insurance can give out?
Or should I prepare one after I receive the police report or when they make the decision of who's fault it was?
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Also, another problem would be a lawyer. Should I get a lawyer? I've heard many different answers, but one said that I should only get a lawyer if they file a claim and they sue me for over what my insurance can give out?
Or should I prepare one after I receive the police report or when they make the decision of who's fault it was?
If you are even thinking about it, the sooner the better. Just make sure the consultation is free. They may listen to you for 5 minutes and flat out tell you you have no case. Or they may tell you there is something there. You'll just have to talk to them and see what they say.
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One thing of note. Do not use Waze's navigation function. It's f*cked me a number of times, and I've heard many others say the same. I use Google Maps and Waze together, Google for directions, Waze for traffic alerts.
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One thing of note. Do not use Waze's navigation function. It's f*cked me a number of times, and I've heard many others say the same. I use Google Maps and Waze together, Google for directions, Waze for traffic alerts.
Fucked you how? Google purchased Waze three or four years ago. Both are powered by Google maps, no?
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No one deserves anything, least of all someone who did her best to try to safely cross. Unfortunately when it comes to things like this, intent has little to do with the outcome. I certainly don't think you intended to cut anyone off or cause the accident or be reckless, it's just a really shitty situation. I do hope you feel better very soon and that the final outcome is as positive as it can be for you.
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Fucked you how? Google purchased Waze three or four years ago. Both are powered by Google maps, no?
Both utilize Google Maps but I believe Waze relies mostly on user input as opposed to solely on map data, which is why they still remain separate apps. Of course, that is pretty much the complete extent of my knowledge on the matter, so I could be very, very wrong.
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Fucked you how? Google purchased Waze three or four years ago. Both are powered by Google maps, no?
Both utilize Google Maps but I believe Waze relies mostly on user input as opposed to solely on map data, which is why they still remain separate apps. Of course, that is pretty much the complete extent of my knowledge on the matter, so I could be very, very wrong.
From what I've read, Waze uses Google Maps for for coordination, and Google Maps uses Waze's user data to predict traffic and alternate routes.
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Why would cars heading east and west bound be yielding to you if they weren't required to stop? You did say it was a two way stop. If you're at the two way stop and failed to yield, then it would be your fault. Then again, it begs the question, why would an intersection with 6 lanes total of east and west bound traffic not have traffic lights? That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
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Why would cars heading east and west bound be yielding to you if they weren't required to stop? You did say it was a two way stop. If you're at the two way stop and failed to yield, then it would be your fault. Then again, it begs the question, why would an intersection with 6 lanes total of east and west bound traffic not have traffic lights? That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
They eastbound cars had a pile up so they left the intersection clear for me.
The westbound traffic saw me in the intersection and one car yielded for me, then the other two lanes followed out of politeness. They weren't required too.
And yeah, the intersection spells disaster but I guess the city doesn't have enough money to install all the traffic lights.
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There is an intersection just like that near where I grew up. The only difference is it is a 4-lane road (2 in each direction) and a turn lane, instead of 6; a main thoroughfare, speed limit 40mph. There is a residential street that crosses it and it is nothing more than a two-way stop exactly like the one in this situation. I used to have to cross it quite a bit and as mentioned, it was a main influence on me always looking for cars with sufficient power. The only not horrendous thing about the intersection is that it just so happens to be smack in the middle between two traffic lights, so if there is any portion of the stretch where traffic is least likely to back up, it's there. Doesn't mean you aren't still taking your life in your hands to cross, though.
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One thing of note. Do not use Waze's navigation function. It's f*cked me a number of times, and I've heard many others say the same. I use Google Maps and Waze together, Google for directions, Waze for traffic alerts.
Fucked you how? Google purchased Waze three or four years ago. Both are powered by Google maps, no?
I've had it suggest out of the way routes before. I remember on our way to Cleveland once, we were stopping at a restaurant on the way, and I had Waze give me on the fly directions to said place. It attempted to route me through random neighborhoods that, when I switched over to Google Maps for a route, I found were completely unnecessary, as GM gave me a nice direct route via the interstate.
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I like Waze.
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One thing of note. Do not use Waze's navigation function. It's f*cked me a number of times, and I've heard many others say the same. I use Google Maps and Waze together, Google for directions, Waze for traffic alerts.
Fucked you how? Google purchased Waze three or four years ago. Both are powered by Google maps, no?
I've had it suggest out of the way routes before. I remember on our way to Cleveland once, we were stopping at a restaurant on the way, and I had Waze give me on the fly directions to said place. It attempted to route me through random neighborhoods that, when I switched over to Google Maps for a route, I found were completely unnecessary, as GM gave me a nice direct route via the interstate.
waze has me take quick detours through neighborhoods from time to time, but it's always been to bypass abnormally long waits at notorious traffic signals
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What's everyone's points and rank on Waze?
Mine's 153366 points and a rank of 7075
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I have never heard of Waze before this thread, and I'm still not sure what it is after reading this thread. I surmise it's a navigation app? And not a very good one, from the sound of it?
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Waze has a navigation component to it, but its primary use is as a traffic condition monitoring app. It relies on its bazillions of users to enter real-time reports of traffic accidents, road work, police speed traps, slow traffic, debris or animals in the road, vehicles pulled over on the side of the road, etc. Turn on your GPS and turn on Waze, while driving. As you're driving, it will alert you of any of the above things. Hit the thumbs up to confirm that it's still there or the other button to say that it is no longer there. If you see something to report, that isn't already on the map, it is a VERY quick series of button taps to report it for all other users to see. It has saved our asses MANY times by alerting us of police ahead.
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If you have to touch your screen (or your phone at all, for that matter) while driving, it's illegal in CA.
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You don't have to interact with it. You can turn it on before driving, listen to any potential alerts along the way, and turn it off when you arrive at your destination. Interacting, of course improves accuracy for everyone, but it isn't required.
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First of all, this thread gives me anxiety. Lol. I hope the motorcyclist is okay.
Also.. it sounds like it could go either way, or even no fault if they can't figure out who's to blame.
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Quickly reading over your story I think ultimately you're at fault, just because traffic was yielding to you the motorcyclist still had right of way.
That said the motorcyclist shouldn't of been doing 65 in a 35. I ride a motorcycle to and I always stay at the speed limit on roads like those simply because you never know who is going to pull out in front of you.
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It's really simple. You said 3 cars were stopped for you. There are 3 lanes of traffic. The only question is, was the first car in the first lane of traffic, OR in the turn lane to turn down the street you were coming from? If the first car was in the first lane of traffic, then all three lanes had stopped, and the motorcycle was filtering. His fault. But if the first car was in the turn lane, then it's possible that the motorcycle was in the far lane. Your fault.
So, are you sure there were 3 cars stopped for you? What lane was the first car in?
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First of all, this thread gives me anxiety. Lol. I hope the motorcyclist is okay.
Also.. it sounds like it could go either way, or even no fault if they can't figure out who's to blame.
Yeah, I really hope so. I'm going to try to visit him to see how he is faring. It's crushing my heart, aching for him. Kinda strange since I don't even know him at all.
Quickly reading over your story I think ultimately you're at fault, just because traffic was yielding to you the motorcyclist still had right of way.
That said the motorcyclist shouldn't of been doing 65 in a 35. I ride a motorcycle to and I always stay at the speed limit on roads like those simply because you never know who is going to pull out in front of you.
Ah, I see. You ride a motorcycle? Pretty tight. :)
He was coming so fast, it was very shocking when he hit my car.
It's really simple. You said 3 cars were stopped for you. There are 3 lanes of traffic. The only question is, was the first car in the first lane of traffic, OR in the turn lane to turn down the street you were coming from? If the first car was in the first lane of traffic, then all three lanes had stopped, and the motorcycle was filtering. His fault. But if the first car was in the turn lane, then it's possible that the motorcycle was in the far lane. Your fault.
So, are you sure there were 3 cars stopped for you? What lane was the first car in?
It was the first car in the first lane of traffic. After he stopped for me, the cars next to him stopped also.
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He was coming so fast, it was very shocking when he hit my car.
(https://media.tenor.co/images/2d092a38b027431aadf6041ec8f54e2a/raw)
Sorry, had to do it. Hope everything turns out okay. :)
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^^^ Thank you, from all of us :lol
Well then, logic would dictate that the motorcycle didn't have his own lane. Even if he wasn't intentionally filtering, he was going too fast to stop with the rest of traffic, and that would be wreckless driving.
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Reckless. Wreckless is something else, and by the sounds of it, his bike was pretty wrecked.
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^^^ Thank you, from all of us :lol
Well then, logic would dictate that the motorcycle didn't have his own lane. Even if he wasn't intentionally filtering, he was going too fast to stop with the rest of traffic, and that would be wreckless driving.
I believe he did have his own lane. It's actually a 7 lane road. Three Eastbound, a turn lane, three Westbound. If I understood her explanation, all three E cars yielded. When W saw that she was stuck in the middle the first two lanes (from her side) yielded and numbnuts on the scooter hauled ass right on through the last lane.
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Okay, it's those W bound cars I was asking about, and whether there were three stopped. It's like the Kennedy Assassination; will we ever know what REALLY happened? :corn
Reckless. Wreckless is something else, and by the sounds of it, his bike was pretty wrecked.
Thank you! (I can't find a dunce cap emoji :lol)
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There were no cars in the turning lane. The leftmost lane of the westbound car yielded for me, then the middle and right lane followed.
Then I waited 3 seconds, raised my hand and proceeded across.
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So which lane was the motorcycle?
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I think somewhere in the rightmost lane because when I was about to make it, he hit the passenger side of the car.
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Well, I think most of us agree that the answer to the initial "whose fault" question depends on whether or not he was in a lane. If there were cars in all three W lanes and he was between them then it's on him. If he had the third lane to himself then it's on you.
And either way he was a dope.
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Oh yeah. It's something one of the attorneys would be better off addressing, but going to visit the guy might very well be a stunningly bad idea. In legal matters being a nice guy can often get you reamed.
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Yeah, don't visit him.