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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: zappafrank2112 on November 28, 2016, 07:32:55 PM
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Just let the damn thing die already. I know there's enough polarization in the positive that to say it was a failure isn't accurate, but it certainly wasn't the home run they were hoping for. They need to just cut their losses and move on.
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If you are not interested then ignore it. There may be some people that are interested in it.
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One of my friends (a diehard fan who even has DT tattoos) made a good point: "There's the lyrics book AND the expanded story available already."
So this is really just overkill.
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Did you even read the description. They're adding more characters, likely places as well. Also, the plot differences could be more towards the new characters. And also, demoes of unused songs.
That's what I'm looking forward to checking out.
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I'm really curious to see what they add. I'm generally not into sci-fi at all, but I'm keeping an open mind about this.
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I don't really see it as overkill. They have this huge world in which we only visit 3 places throughout the entire album. I remember feeling letdown when we didn't get to see more of the map so I'm excited to see it flesh out a bit more.
Some people like the album and are excited, others aren't. That's life
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Yup a big vast of the map hasn't been mentioned. Yorkeland, New Anglya.
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Am I the only one who finds it really cool/interesing that the author is actually a prog metal singer as well? It got me by surprise in a good way ;D
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The novel (plus the hinted bonus material) seem pretty cool to me. I think we fans are lucky to experience the creative spirit of DT in so many unique ways, crossing over in alternative media. Video games, books, etc. -- pretty bold for a band.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-the-astonishing-album-turned-into-a-novel/
Nice to see the BM crew being positive :lol
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Did it already sell out? I was gonna buy a copy when I got home from work :sadpanda:
Never mind, it wasn't redirecting me when I added it to my cart. Turns out, I added 13 copies to my cart. :lol
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I'm really curious to see what they add. I'm generally not into sci-fi at all, but I'm keeping an open mind about this.
I'd call it more fantasy than scifi anyway. I mean, the magical power of music healing the dying?
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I'm really curious to see what they add. I'm generally not into sci-fi at all, but I'm keeping an open mind about this.
I'd call it more fantasy than scifi anyway. I mean, the magical power of music healing the dying?
Yea, there's nothing sci-fi about this unless you consider the no-macs to be sc-fi.
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The most interesting thing to me is the bonus audio content.
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The most interesting thing to me is the bonus audio content.
I think a really in-depth making of DVD for the album would have been amazing.
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I never get a chance to do this....so can I just say...
I KNOW THIS GUY!!!!!!!
I met him at Emerald City Comicon in 2015, and I interviewed him for Jammin Dudes Neighborhood in 2016.
His books are fantastic. It was purely by accident that I met him, and we hit it off talking about music.....and to be honest, when he first told me he was a writer, I had my doubts. (Yeah right, I thought)
But then I took home his book, and I could not put it down. Its one of the best fantasy novels Ive ever read, and Ive pimped it in the What Are You Reading Now thread before.
This is my interview with him at Comic Con last year.
https://youtu.be/jAM-4n5iE5U
My first mention was on my "Support Your Local Artist" rant at the 7 min mark of this episode.
https://youtu.be/TGdU3eDG1Zk
This guy is one of the best writers Ive ever read...and just a seriously nice guy.
BUY HIS BOOKS!!! They are awesome!!!
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As soon as I saw the post on DT's facebook about it, I knew I was going to open the comment section to see comments of my fellow hispanicmen throwing shit at it, and I wasn't disappointed.
Hell, they've literally been whining about it since it came out and it's just going to be a year.
I don't see TA stopping DT from writing anything, they're just not done fleshing it and it's their way, why are the social media people just so fucking insistent on that?
And I'm sick of people literally begging to bring Portnoy back, what kind of audience does DT have anyway? I'm a fan of another group in similar situation and with comparable (if not higher) fame than DT and they're not even close to having such a toxic social media.
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The most interesting thing to me is the bonus audio content.
I think a really in-depth making of DVD for the album would have been amazing.
I agree. This would be the perfect album for that kind of thing. Not sure if they even filmed all the writing sessions though, I'm sure there is at least audio? I know MP recorded everything while he was in the band, but not sure how that works now.
Either way, I'm curious how this all turns out. I love TA, even after all this time it's easily one of my favorite DT albums. I feel the book would actually make a much better story, as there is much more room for detail, but at the same time the main reason I loved the album so much was the music and overall atmosphere, plus James sounded amazing on it IMO. The book just can't have the same effect because, well, there is no sound.
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75 bucks.... :(
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I'm really curious to see what they add. I'm generally not into sci-fi at all, but I'm keeping an open mind about this.
I'd call it more fantasy than scifi anyway. I mean, the magical power of music healing the dying?
Yea, there's nothing sci-fi about this unless you consider the no-macs to be sc-fi.
Futuristic technology is generally associated with sci-fi and not fantasy.
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I'm really curious to see what they add. I'm generally not into sci-fi at all, but I'm keeping an open mind about this.
I'd call it more fantasy than scifi anyway. I mean, the magical power of music healing the dying?
Yea, there's nothing sci-fi about this unless you consider the no-macs to be sc-fi.
Futuristic technology is generally associated with sci-fi and not fantasy.
Meh. Not enough. Being set in the future doesn't make it sci-fi to me, especially since the no-macs themselves are the only futuristic element to it and they're just used as plot devices and the science of it all isn't important. I also don't really consider the new Star Trek movies to really be sci fi either.
I'm not insulting it. It doesn't have to be sci-fi. Most great literature wasn't sci-fi. I wouldn't even consider the Battlestar Galactica reboot to really be sci-fi and it's one of my favorite shows.
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That's one of the contrasts between science fiction and fantasy. Plus, dystopian fiction is not really considered fantasy. It's similar, but dystopian fiction is usually categorized under science fiction because of the time period in which it takes place.
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That's one of the contrasts between science fiction and fantasy. Plus, dystopian fiction is not really considered fantasy. It's similar, but dystopian fiction is usually categorized under science fiction because of the time period in which it takes place.
Sure. But if you removed the nomacs and replaced them with anything else, no one would have a clue when this story takes place. The only reason we know it's a dystopian future is because we were told.
In the end though, it doesn't matter in the slightest hahaha. Still not a fan of the story, whether it's sci-fi-, fantasy, noir crime or erotica.
Maybe if it were all four....
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Sure. Maybe we can have Gandalf show up and tell the NOMAC it cannot pass. ;)
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You guys are making this too hard.
Describe your favorite scene.
If you sound like a nerd, it is sci-fi.
If you sound like a geek, it is fantasy.
If you sound like a freak, it is horror.
If it sounds like gossip, it is drama.
If it sounds like a love note, it is ro ..... action (or WWE)
(https://www.out.com/sites/out.com/files/2016/03/07/tumblr_o3hguxtg0c1qiohboo7_r1_400.gif)
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Adami covered most of my thoughts.
It's much closer to a fantasy world than scifi, with LOTR and GOT even being mentioned specifically as strong influences. The NOMACS are apparently technological, but if it weren't for seeing the album art, it would be irrelevant, it could be a magical orb for all it matters to the plot. They're barely even mentioned.
Fantasy often includes a technological element, especially in the overlap between the genres/subgenres. It's not black and white there. Dystopian settings also aren't exclusive to scifi, even though it's a commonly used trope in the genre.
The novel will very likely expand on many of the elements that are currently stopping it from being scifi, such as the backstory of the world, and the way the technology (including the NOMACS) has incorporated into the world, but then the ending with magically reviving the dying with music would negate that for me. It's idealistic fantasy, and isn't compatible with the rest being presented as a scifi story as an extrapolation of our world. You could argue it's an alternate world where magical music works, but then we've come full circle back to fantasy again.
As Adami pointed out, the matter of classification isn't meant as an insult or judgement, just calling it for what it is. I basically do nothing but watch fantasy and scifi all day, so it's all good! :lol But I'm also very aware of this stuff.
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Is this like one of those all sci fi is fantasy but not all fantasy is sci fi type things? :lol
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Adami covered most of my thoughts.
It's much closer to a fantasy world than scifi, with LOTR and GOT even being mentioned specifically as strong influences. The NOMACS are apparently technological, but if it weren't for seeing the album art, it would be irrelevant, it could be a magical orb for all it matters to the plot. They're barely even mentioned.
Fantasy often includes a technological element, especially in the overlap between the genres/subgenres. It's not black and white there. Dystopian settings also aren't exclusive to scifi, even though it's a commonly used trope in the genre.
The novel will very likely expand on many of the elements that are currently stopping it from being scifi, such as the backstory of the world, and the way the technology (including the NOMACS) has incorporated into the world, but then the ending with magically reviving the dying with music would negate that for me. It's idealistic fantasy, and isn't compatible with the rest being presented as a scifi story as an extrapolation of our world. You could argue it's an alternate world where magical music works, but then we've come full circle back to fantasy again.
As Adami pointed out, the matter of classification isn't meant as an insult or judgement, just calling it for what it is. I basically do nothing but watch fantasy and scifi all day, so it's all good! :lol But I'm also very aware of this stuff.
Interesting - I've never considered that sci-fi precludes anything magical or supernatural. Indeed, some of what I consider the best sci-fi has a certain spiritual element to it. What you're describing I would normally call hard sci-fi, i.e. super-realistic science concepts and no room for anything supernormal.
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Interesting - I've never considered that sci-fi precludes anything magical or supernatural. Indeed, some of what I consider the best sci-fi has a certain spiritual element to it. What you're describing I would normally call hard sci-fi, i.e. super-realistic science concepts and no room for anything supernormal.
Including some kind of spiritual/supernormal element is one thing, but healing the dying through the magical power of music as the culmination of the story's plot is fantasy by definition. A lot of scifi doesn't include anything supernatural at all, without being close to hard scifi. There's a huge area in between fantasy and hard scifi, and sure there can be overlap in the middle, but as the story of The Astonishing stands in its current form, it's a lot closer to fantasy than scifi. Given the importance of the fantasy element to the story, I would always classify it as fantasy, at least partially, even if the book expands greatly upon the scifi side.
I'm curious, by your definition, what stops something like Back to the Future being called hard scifi? There's nothing magical in there.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/PMKBmkJW4NDry/giphy.gif)
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Heck, there's enough scope in what Petrucci's conceived for a trilogy of concept albums, let alone just one. I just love that DT is absolutely sticking to its guns with this, despite the mixed reception the album has received (unjustified imho; it's a masterpiece, end of.)
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I'd definitely be interested in reading this book. Maybe not $75 interested, but I'm assuming that will just be the first pressing with the bonus stuff, hopefully they will release a cheaper option as well.
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Why don't they sell The Astonishing toys while they're at it ;D
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One of my friends (a diehard fan who even has DT tattoos) made a good point: "There's the lyrics book AND the expanded story available already."
So this is really just overkill.
We get it. You aren't the target audience.
FFS
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If they decide to release a cheap Kindle version, I'll likely get that. The only other thing I'm interested in is the different phases of the song, but not $75 interested.
BTW, I'm not sure they do themselves a favor announcing all these things so early before release. When it then gets delayed (like the computer game), it becomes very visible in a negative way. In general, you want to announce things when you have a set release date and there's little chance you will not hit it. The way the book announcement made it sound, the guy only recently started on the project?
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Not sure this has been linked anywhere else yet, but here's a statement on Orullian's site:
https://orullian.com/testpress/uncategorized/im-writing-for-dream-theater/
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It's promising that the author appears genuinely invested in this project, rather than the band hiring anyone to turn the story into a book.
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Not sure this has been linked anywhere else yet, but here's a statement on Orullian's site:
https://orullian.com/testpress/uncategorized/im-writing-for-dream-theater/
Honestly, after reading that, I might pre-order this... It sounds like it could be really, really cool.
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It's promising that the author appears genuinely invested in this project, rather than the band hiring anyone to turn the story into a book.
Yeah, I thought so too. That may have been what sold JP on the guy, vs an established, but ultimately indifferent, ghostwriter.
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I'm curious, by your definition, what stops something like Back to the Future being called hard scifi? There's nothing magical in there.
Er, the time-travel in a flying car? :lol Which, like The Astonishing, is a rather fundamental pillar of the whole story.
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That was a great read. I'll definitely be pre-ordering the limited edition.
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Peter is an extremely nice guy. He's also the lead singer for cult Seattle metal band Fifth Angel. James Labrie is one of his biggest influences. Really talented person as well. His books are engaging, if you are a sci-fi/fantasy person. This will be good.
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In the scifi/fantasy question, I think it will definitely be more fantasy in the end. Orullian will have to explain
a) why Gabriel has "Jesus status" with his people
b) why music can have resurrection powers
That said, I would actually *love* if he shifted the story more towards a "technology vs spirit" battle. Back when they announced TA I was hoping that that what the story would be like. Particularly I was hoping for a musical showdown between machine and man.
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While the novel doesn't really interest me, it's hard to knock the band on this... since they aren't writing it. Plus it sounds like some bonus music/demos is involved which is pretty awesome.
I guess if reviews came out and people said the story is pretty good then I'd pick up the novel, but that 75$ price point is pretty crazy if you ask me, unless there is truly a lot of bonus music involved.
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That said, I would actually *love* if he shifted the story more towards a "technology vs spirit" battle. Back when they announced TA I was hoping that that what the story would be like. Particularly I was hoping for a musical showdown between machine and man.
Ditto, it kind of became a little more of a Romeo and Juliet thing, but it would be cool to see more emphasis placed on the other aspects of the story that weren't able to be address in as much detail on the album.
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If you are not interested then ignore it. There may be some people that are interested in it.
True, but DT has generally done smart business things over the years. They are a rare band that has, for the most part, kept a strong loyal fan base over a long period of time. This is a very difficult thing for a band to do as the years pass.
I can see a graphic novel, but a book? The Astonishing - in the opinion of many (including me) - is the words album put out by DT and they must be aware of that.
They should get back in the studio as quickly as possible and put out a strong general album with input from more than just JP. Put the Astonishing behind them.
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The Astonishing - in the opinion of many (including me) - is the words album put out by DT and they must be aware of that.
Good call, it definitely has a lot of words. Lyrics aplenty for 34 tracks.
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That said, I would actually *love* if he shifted the story more towards a "technology vs spirit" battle. Back when they announced TA I was hoping that that what the story would be like. Particularly I was hoping for a musical showdown between machine and man.
Ditto, it kind of became a little more of a Romeo and Juliet thing, but it would be cool to see more emphasis placed on the other aspects of the story that weren't able to be address in as much detail on the album.
It's too bad that Arhys was killed as part of the story, since that kinda negates the ability to have an "unmentioned-yet" battle of the militia. Otherwise they could have moved into an LOTR type of plot, where Gabriel's revival of Faythe could have caused a key shift in the battle of Arhys against the NOMACS. (like Frodo shifting the battle at the gates of Mordor)
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It's too bad that Arhys was killed as part of the story, since that kinda negates the ability to have an "unmentioned-yet" battle of the militia. Otherwise they could have moved into an LOTR type of plot, where Gabriel's revival of Faythe could have caused a key shift in the battle of Arhys against the NOMACS. (like Frodo shifting the battle at the gates of Mordor)
Yeah, it will be interesting to see how the story is expanded though, I'll be curious to see what they choose to dive into more. I think the actual conflict between the Empire and the rebels (which obviously represents in some ways the music vs. technology that you mentioned) would be great to explore.
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Not sure this has been linked anywhere else yet, but here's a statement on Orullian's site:
https://orullian.com/testpress/uncategorized/im-writing-for-dream-theater/
Very cool.
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Just looking at the link itself, I hope I didn't share something that wasn't ready for dissemination yet :lol
(in my defense, Google Now suggested the link to me this morning; it must have scrubbed the site)
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If it's very cheap, MAYBE. But the story of the Astonishing really wasn't all that interesting.
Also should've hired Brandon Sanderson to write it, he'd have gotten this done in under a week :P
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Nonsense. Dan Brown! (Only so we can see TempusVox explode :D )
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For people wondering, it looks like it's $75 and a limited run.
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We get it. You aren't the target audience.
FFS
So it's OK to have a place where people drone on and on about how much they love it, but those of us who don't care for it have to keep quiet and aren't allowed to voice our displeasure? Got it.
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We get it. You aren't the target audience.
FFS
So it's OK to have a place where people drone on and on about how much they love it, but those of us who don't care for it have to keep quiet and aren't allowed to voice our displeasure? Got it.
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Maybe people like reading positive thoughts on a subject rather than negative. Just a thought.
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We get it. You aren't the target audience.
FFS
So it's OK to have a place where people drone on and on about how much they love it, but those of us who don't care for it have to keep quiet and aren't allowed to voice our displeasure? Got it.
If you think those two extremes are the only available options, they you really haven't spent much time figuring out what this place is about. As the forum rules state, you (and anyone else who posts here) are welcome to voice your dislikes and critiques, provided that doing so is done constructively and with tact. First and foremost, this is a discussion forum and a fan site. So posts that either cannot provide for meaningful discussion or that bash the band do not further the purpose of this place. Saying things like "Just let the damn thing die already," or telling the band that they "need" to move on, aren't in any way constructive. There are much better ways to state your opinion without alienating the fan base here.
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We get it. You aren't the target audience.
FFS
So it's OK to have a place where people drone on and on about how much they love it, but those of us who don't care for it have to keep quiet and aren't allowed to voice our displeasure? Got it.
You totally miss the point by playing the victim. Because, as of late, the negative posts far overshadow the positive ones, so much so that's it's become boring.
B.Lee
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Hey guys, we're going to interview Peter Orullian, some day, so if you want to ask him something directly, please write your questions in this thread ;)
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Hey guys, we're going to interview Peter Orullian, some day, so if you want to ask him something directly, please write your questions in this thread ;)
Does Petrucci have veto power over new ideas and tangents that add or even alter the original story? How does that affect your writing?
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What I love is how the only one in the thread having a negative reaction to the news was the OP.. When I read that first comment I was about to facepalm, but then my hand slowed down until entirely stopping its way to my forehead as I kept reading the rest of the comments..
Back on topic, I think it's great what they're doing; I'm really curious about these two particular items though:
*A few early music demos (often taken from original iPhone recordings) of original songs set in the universe of The Astonishing but never used on the album
*The genesis of one song: From early iPhone recording to final tune, listen to several song clips of the steps in the song writing process of one of the songs from The Astonishing
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The Astonishing - in the opinion of many (including me) - is the words album put out by DT and they must be aware of that.
Good call, it definitely has a lot of words. Lyrics aplenty for 34 tracks.
OK, OK . . . I type fast when I am at work. . . . WORST . . . ok? :-)
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The Astonishing - in the opinion of many (including me) - is the words album put out by DT and they must be aware of that.
Good call, it definitely has a lot of words. Lyrics aplenty for 34 tracks.
OK, OK . . . I type fast when I am at work. . . . WORST . . . ok? :-)
It doesn't make you any less wrong! ;) :biggrin:
B.Lee
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Releasing a book is not overkill but if they do another US tour and have any more than 1 or 2 Astonishing songs in the set, THAT will be overkill.
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Releasing a book is not overkill but if they do another US tour and have any more than 1 or 2 Astonishing songs in the set, THAT will be overkill.
Totally disagree. I would expect, and kind of hope, they keep a nice little suite (~15 minutes) of TA tunes on the next tour. I don't think it was overkill when DT performed two ADTOE tracks on the DT12 tour (two songs they played every single night on both tours). It's normal for bands to continue to play the newest tracks.
And personally, I kind of would like to see some songs from TA outside of the entire TA. Like sprinkled into a more traditional DT set.
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And personally, I kind of would like to see some songs from TA outside of the entire TA. Like sprinkled into a more traditional DT set.
Absolutely.
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There will be. Not a ton (I can't remember the exact count), but more than 2 for sure.
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As a person who enjoys reading, I am looking forward to the book. I won't get the pre-order (75 bucks?!), but I do plan on picking it up once released. I haven't spent a lot of time with The Astonishing record (it hasn't grabbed me), but I think the book will help me connect with the record more. And I am a fan of the author, so that helps. Excellent news.
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I have never written a book, what's the timescale at which the process operates? From the announcement I got the feeling that the project only began somewhat recently. Are we looking at a year from now?
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I have never written a book, what's the timescale at which the process operates? From the announcement I got the feeling that the project only began somewhat recently. Are we looking at a year from now?
He sent JP a Saviour In The Square sample chapter, so that's basically one done already, and he's likely giving his full attention and writing as we speak. The cool thing is he's dedicated and a DT fan.
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I think rumborak wanted that question to go to the author per the request in the thread.
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Actually, no :lol Interviews rarely give any new information, so my question was more into the general DTF round.
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I have never written a book, what's the timescale at which the process operates? From the announcement I got the feeling that the project only began somewhat recently. Are we looking at a year from now?
Unless you're name is George RR Martin, it shouldn't take that long. Authors can write books in a few months.
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I have never written a book, what's the timescale at which the process operates? From the announcement I got the feeling that the project only began somewhat recently. Are we looking at a year from now?
Unless you're name is George RR Martin, it shouldn't take that long. Authors can write books in a few months.
But there's still the process of editing, refining and then actually publishing, so a year is probably not a bad bet.
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I concur. Though I was just referring to the writing itself. All of the ancillary details that come after the author is finished is probably what slows down the process.
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His blog post makes it sound like he has been involved with this project for most of the year, so I'd imagine most of the writing, if not all of it, is already finished. Now is probably the editing process and prepping for production and distribution
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https://orullian.com/testpress/uncategorized/im-writing-for-dream-theater/
That link has got me interested, I have to admit. It sounds like he's got free reign to introduce his own characters and locations, which should give the story some extra depth. Though I really hope they do an e-book release, because I can't see myself spending $75 on it.
BTW - Has anyone read any of the books the author mentions - Trial of Intentions or The Sound of Broken Absolutes?? I'm interested to hear about this "music magic system"..
Hey guys, we're going to interview Peter Orullian, some day, so if you want to ask him something directly, please write your questions in this thread ;)
My question would be: Are we going to get some backstory around Nafaryus? Maybe how he came to power, or his journey from "Bug" to hating and suppressing music, and the introduction of the NOMACs?
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I'm not a fan of TA. The reason behind it could be the story but well, book sounds interesting with new characters and places. I'll sure read it.
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That link has got me interested, I have to admit. It sounds like he's got free reign to introduce his own characters and locations, which should give the story some extra depth.
I'm more in the hope that he creates new plot that ties together the rather disparate elements of the current TA story. As of right now, I think TA has too many character for the amount of plot they appear in.
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That link has got me interested, I have to admit. It sounds like he's got free reign to introduce his own characters and locations, which should give the story some extra depth.
I'm more in the hope that he creates new plot that ties together the rather disparate elements of the current TA story. As of right now, I think TA has too many character for the amount of plot they appear in.
Even for the length of The Astonishing as an album, the story/lyrics would only amount to a few pages of text. It doesn't look like there's a finalized length for the novel yet, but we're probably talking a factor of 100:1 between novel and the album lyrics, and it won't be presented as 95% dialogue. Not to mention he's a professional writer. There will have to be a lot of extra material to expand this into a full novel.
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Yeah for a novel, TA the album has a pretty small number of characters. Should be very easy to expand and develop.
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The Astonishing is almost like Dream Theater's answer to Clockwork Angels. Both epic concept albums with a novel to follow.. Both albums are very addictive imho!
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The Astonishing is almost like Dream Theater's answer to Clockwork Angels. Both epic concept albums with a novel to follow.. Both albums are very addictive imho!
I have a feeling that they will run very different paths. Rush came out at the end of their career, wrote their first full concept album and really shocked everyone with how good it was. Among casual and die-hard fans it seemed to go over very well. The book was by an author I love, but frankly Kevin J. Anderson has done much better than the Clockwork Angels novel. It had far too many song/lyric reference/puns, that were good for awhile, but then just continued to get forced. The story was alright, but nothing spectacular. In general the book was a big step down from the album.
For Dream Theater, if Petrucci lets this guy do his job properly I think the novel can stand to do alright. Frankly I hope it diverts from the album in some key ways, which would really allow it to be much better from a story perspective. While I don't know if I'll have the interest to get the initial run, I'm sure I'll read the book eventually, and I expect it will be better than the album.
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Releasing a book is not overkill but if they do another US tour and have any more than 1 or 2 Astonishing songs in the set, THAT will be overkill.
If I notice in posted set lists that they are playing more than two TA songs, I will have to skip that tour also. I only make 12 bux an hour. Tickets are expensive. I don't want to pay to see what I consider garbage below the very high standard DT has set.
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Releasing a book is not overkill but if they do another US tour and have any more than 1 or 2 Astonishing songs in the set, THAT will be overkill.
If I notice in posted set lists that they are playing more than two TA songs, I will have to skip that tour also. I only make 12 bux an hour. Tickets are expensive. I don't want to pay to see what I consider garbage below the very high standard DT has set.
What if they played Never Enough and Prophets of War instead? (both songs I like btw and PoW was awesome live)
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Releasing a book is not overkill but if they do another US tour and have any more than 1 or 2 Astonishing songs in the set, THAT will be overkill.
If I notice in posted set lists that they are playing more than two TA songs, I will have to skip that tour also. I only make 12 bux an hour. Tickets are expensive. I don't want to pay to see what I consider garbage below the very high standard DT has set.
That's harsh, TA has alot of very good songs that are great to see live!
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Releasing a book is not overkill but if they do another US tour and have any more than 1 or 2 Astonishing songs in the set, THAT will be overkill.
If I notice in posted set lists that they are playing more than two TA songs, I will have to skip that tour also. I only make 12 bux an hour. Tickets are expensive. I don't want to pay to see what I consider garbage below the very high standard DT has set.
There have been several warnings about bashing the band and the album. While you are entitled to like/dislike what you see fit, you are not entitled to refer to material you do not like as "garbage" on this site. Consider this a warning.
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Releasing a book is not overkill but if they do another US tour and have any more than 1 or 2 Astonishing songs in the set, THAT will be overkill.
If I notice in posted set lists that they are playing more than two TA songs, I will have to skip that tour also. I only make 12 bux an hour. Tickets are expensive. I don't want to pay to see what I consider garbage below the very high standard DT has set.
That's harsh, TA has alot of very good songs that are great to see live!
Agree!
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Releasing a book is not overkill but if they do another US tour and have any more than 1 or 2 Astonishing songs in the set, THAT will be overkill.
If I notice in posted set lists that they are playing more than two TA songs, I will have to skip that tour also. I only make 12 bux an hour. Tickets are expensive. I don't want to pay to see what I consider garbage below the very high standard DT has set.
That's harsh, TA has alot of very good songs that are great to see live!
Agree!
Also agree. There are certainly a number of songs I would love to see again outside of TA as a whole. I recall The Gift of Music being a pretty big hit when it was released as the single before the album. People wouldn't want to see that song mixed into a full DT set? Or what about A New Beginning? That sounds like an awesome closer for the future of DT sets IMO. And of course, my favorite, Chosen would be a nice mid set ballad for the band.
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I agree that Chosen should be a staple in future setlists, along with The Gift of Music and Moment Of Betrayal.
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Releasing a book is not overkill but if they do another US tour and have any more than 1 or 2 Astonishing songs in the set, THAT will be overkill.
If I notice in posted set lists that they are playing more than two TA songs, I will have to skip that tour also. I only make 12 bux an hour. Tickets are expensive. I don't want to pay to see what I consider garbage below the very high standard DT has set.
There have been several warnings about bashing the band and the album. While you are entitled to like/dislike what you see fit, you are not entitled to refer to material you do not like as "garbage" on this site. Consider this a warning.
Ummm. OK. I am a bit perplexed. First, I don't come to this site daily. I've never seen any warnings about not bashing an album. I dislike TA very strongly and would like to express my opinion of it. I used no vulgarity. I don't even think it was disrespectful. wow.
I've seen DT over 20 times starting in 1992. JP was the guitar teacher of one of my best friends. I saw DT, Derek and MP play the secret show as "Ethyl Mertz" I've been a fan since the Sundance days. I just think TA was so so incredibly beneath their standards.
I am actually shocked that I would be some sort of "warning" for that. I did not attack another person posting and I used no vulgarity. Maybe this is the dystopia from The Astonishing.
The word that comes to mind is "astonished." I can say that it was a great album if that will get my "warning" removed. At least "Queensryche's "The Warning" was great . . .
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Let me clarify also by saying that while I dislike the album greatly as a whole, there are obviously good moments and sections. It would be irrational to dislike every second of an album by one of my favorite bands.
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The word that comes to mind is "astonished." I can say that it was a great album if that will get my "warning" removed. At least "Queensryche's "The Warning" was great . . .
[/quote]
The warning was about calling it garbage, that's a bit of a low blow to such a huge accomplshment by the band. You are entitled to your opinion, he was just telling you to season your words a little bit, lol!
That's great you got to see a secret DT show disguised under a different name. :tup
Btw, Queensryche "the Warning" is a good album. Take Hold of the Flame is a highlight. Operation Mindcrime outshines it, so does DT's The Astonishing..
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Architeuthis, the Ethyl Mertz show was a just them playing covers, but it was still a great fun night at a small bar. Either 1996 or 1997 if I remember. Got to hang for a bit. My keyboardist got to set up a few lessons with Derek. Fun stuff. I remember looking at the set list and seeing "Fire" and thought "Great, a cool Hendrix song," but it was the Bruce Springsteen / Pointer Sisters song :-)
As for my language, I will be more careful about how I express my disdain for a particular album - just find the whole situation a bit odd.
I remember the anticipation I had about a new DT album, like I usually do. Then the incredible disappointment I felt right away upon listening to it.
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Architeuthis, the Ethyl Mertz show was a just them playing covers, but it was still a great fun night at a small bar. Either 1996 or 1997 if I remember. Got to hang for a bit. My keyboardist got to set up a few lessons with Derek. Fun stuff. I remember looking at the set list and seeing "Fire" and thought "Great, a cool Hendrix song," but it was the Bruce Springsteen / Pointer Sisters song :-)
As for my language, I will be more careful about how I express my disdain for a particular album - just find the whole situation a bit odd.
I remember the anticipation I had about a new DT album, like I usually do. Then the incredible disappointment I felt right away upon listening to it.
That must have been a cool experience, even seeing them do covers. DT has always done a great job on cover songs.
I also remember the anticipation of new releases. TA didn't click with me right away, but once it did I was hooked. A very different album from them, but they are proud of it and I admire the fact that they took a risk and did a 2 disc concept album!
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One of our forum members asked Peter if the demos would be on a CD and he answered :
Hi,
The demos of songs will be sent via secure link.
Hope you decide to get a copy, it’s going to be great!
Cheers,
Peter
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Great article by Peter Orullian about why you should listen to DT ;D https://orullian.com/testpress/uncategorized/why-you-should-be-listening-to-dream-theater-writers-too/
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One of our forum members asked Peter if the demos would be on a CD and he answered :
Hi,
The demos of songs will be sent via secure link.
Hope you decide to get a copy, it’s going to be great!
Cheers,
Peter
That's disappointing. For $75 I figured they could press a CD.
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Great article by Peter Orullian about why you should listen to DT ;D https://orullian.com/testpress/uncategorized/why-you-should-be-listening-to-dream-theater-writers-too/
I think it's safe to say that he's definitely a DT fan! :lol
I found this link to some excerpts of his stuff, for those interested in his writing style: https://www.tor.com/author/peter-orullian/
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I like his writing style, but he really needs to proof read his work. Not to be nitpicky, but a professional writer shouldn't have that many typos in something he puts out to the public.
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Agreed. But book authors tend to write very sloppy, and are cleaned up by editors. Trust me. :lol
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Oh, I know. I know. That's why authors have editors and attorneys have secretaries.
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Hey guys, we're going to interview Peter Orullian, some day, so if you want to ask him something directly, please write your questions in this thread ;)
Quesion for Peter: Since you're a trained and very skilled vocalist, if DT invited you to perform on a live show and play one of the characters, which one would you like/choose to play?
Thank you, keyboard wizard ;D
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Reddit AMA with Peter Orullian, next Wednesday Dec 14th
https://m.reddit.com/r/Dreamtheater/comments/5hgwuz/the_astonishing_novelization_author_peter/?compact=true
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So apparently the book has been pushed back to Fall 2017. More time to make the story complete and get everything together for the limited edition. We may have the North American dates before the book :lol
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So apparently the book has been pushed back to Fall 2017. More time to make the story complete and get everything together for the limited edition. We may have the North American dates before the book :lol
I hope they don't cancel it completely (like the plans for a dvd). The only thing I don't like about TA is the (imo) illogical behaviour of some characters in some parts of the story. I'm curious to see what a professional author does with the material and if he's able to give the story and characters more depth.
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I hope they don't cancel it completely (like the plans for a dvd). The only thing I don't like about TA is the (imo) illogical behaviour of some characters in some parts of the story. I'm curious to see what a professional author does with the material and if he's able to give the story and characters more depth.
And that's because, probably, the story was actually based on reality more than in pure imagination or in a random Hollywood movie.. ;D
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It would be wise for them to release the book right before the north American leg of the tour. They could sell alot of copies at the merchandise section. Neil Peart books were available at the Rush shows, that's how I obtained my copies. I'm alot less likely to order something like that..
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It would be wise for them to release the book right before the north American leg of the tour. They could sell alot of copies at the merchandise section. Neil Peart books were available at the Rush shows, that's how I obtained my copies. I'm alot less likely to order something like that..
You're totally right with this, that would be the best move on their part. Not sure it'll happen, though, they seem to be going very slowly with this project (which isn't an easy thing to do at all, so I understand).
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Re: Now there's going to be a novel for "The Astonishing"???
::) Not only that - I hear they're writing a double concept album based off that iPhone app... Geeze guys....
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The Astonishing is almost like Dream Theater's answer to Clockwork Angels. Both epic concept albums with a novel to follow.. Both albums are very addictive imho!
I have a feeling that they will run very different paths. Rush came out at the end of their career, wrote their first full concept album and really shocked everyone with how good it was. Among casual and die-hard fans it seemed to go over very well. The book was by an author I love, but frankly Kevin J. Anderson has done much better than the Clockwork Angels novel. It had far too many song/lyric reference/puns, that were good for awhile, but then just continued to get forced. The story was alright, but nothing spectacular. In general the book was a big step down from the album.
For Dream Theater, if Petrucci lets this guy do his job properly I think the novel can stand to do alright. Frankly I hope it diverts from the album in some key ways, which would really allow it to be much better from a story perspective. While I don't know if I'll have the interest to get the initial run, I'm sure I'll read the book eventually, and I expect it will be better than the album.
Totally agree with this. While I love Clockwork Angels (the album) I'm not touching the book since I don't want to ruin my interpretation of the lyrics (Well, that and I'm not at all a fan of Kevin J. Anderson and I don't want him to ruin the album for me.)
That said. I might be all over a novel of The Astonishing (unless Kevin J. Anderson writes it.) The lyrics are by far the weakest part of the album for me and the novel could be a great way to repair some of that damage. I'd consider it a masterpiece if not for the lyrics because I think the music is that good. It was even better live.
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Have ordered the book purely as I'm hoping it will be a nice thing to own, I have no real desire to read it but will no doubt give it a go. It was a joint Christmas/birthday present off my brother so haven't had to pay for it!
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https://www.vaultbooks.pub/news/update-the-astonishing
Some updates. If I understood right, the author maybe can accept some suggestions from the fans about what it should be developed on the book.
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Peter's been posting updates on his FB and Twitter pages also.
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Wasn't this supposed to come out in the Spring? I kinda forgot that I ordered it to be honest.
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The Astonishing? What's that? Oh yeah, I almost forgot.
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The Astonishing? What's that? Oh yeah, I almost forgot.
Seems like you just click on the Astonishing threads just to shit on them. Not cool dude.
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Funny how the OP seems offended by the mere prospect of an Astonishing book. :lol
I saw this on FB today, garnering 2,7K likes:
(https://scontent.fotp1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20953241_687553148111452_2683130720191244354_n.jpg?oh=bd1f9691417b83b85860d923cc93dd87&oe=5A2FD8CD)
I know that after Scenes (and especially starting with ToT) every DT album had its share of controversy, but I'm pretty sure The Astonishing will go down as DT's all-time "most controversial/most passionately hated by a good chunk of the fanbase" album.
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... and what exactly would "a good chunk of the fanbase" be?
Just like every album by every band ever there are people that like it and those that don't but to say "passionately hated" is pretty ridiculous and don't really understand how you can come to that conclusion. I see people love it and hate it, just like usual, but statements like this just don't make any sense... unless you can back it up with a lot of evidence of this "passionate hate" cuz I just don't see it.
I also seem to remember people saying this junk about Falling Into Infinity, which now gets quite a lot of love.
If you don't like it, great, if you like it, great, but it's generally the people that don't like something that tend to make the wildest claims and exaggerations and so have the loudest voices trying to convince people to also share their opinion but for what? Why tell your buddy to stay away when they may end up enjoying it? That does nothing but hurt the music.
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... and what exactly would "a good chunk of the fanbase" be?
Just like every album by every band ever there are people that like it and those that don't but to say "passionately hated" is pretty ridiculous and don't really understand how you can come to that conclusion. I see people love it and hate it, just like usual, but statements like this just don't make any sense... unless you can back it up with a lot of evidence of this "passionate hate" cuz I just don't see it.
I also seem to remember people saying this junk about Falling Into Infinity, which now gets quite a lot of love.
If you don't like it, great, if you like it, great, but it's generally the people that don't like something that tend to make the wildest claims and exaggerations and so have the loudest voices trying to convince people to also share their opinion but for what? Why tell your buddy to stay away when they may end up enjoying it? That does nothing but hurt the music.
Well, I've been around for a few album cycles now, and the reactions The Astonishing gets, even so long after its release is definitely not the usual "some love it, some hate it." It's a polarising album, which incites unusual passion in both the "love" and the "hate" camps. You wouldn't find such FB posts (with that many likes - 3,5K now) like the one I linked to about any other DT album. This sentiment is also echoed on many forums.
A "good chunk" means a noticeable proportion. It's by no means the majority or even close to the majority.
I have 3 friends, who are lifelong, really hardcore DT-fans, and none of them liked the album, at all. They don't know each other, they all came to this conclusion independently. It's anecdotal, inconclusive evidence, but knowing them, and knowing what they each like about DT, it's very telling for me.
Also, the Astonishing tour was a flop. There may have been other factos at play, but I can't help but chalk some of it up to the album itself.
As I was typing my original comment, FII came to my mind as well, but I get the impression that, in retrospect, most people seem to really like it (one of the most often cited positive opinions regarding Sons of Apollo is that it echoes FII). Remains to be seen how TA will be regarded in the more distant future.
Your last paragraph is completely misdirected, I couldn't care less about trying to "convince" anyone about liking or not linking anything, that would be just silly and childish. I just expressed what I perceived. If anything, I hope that more and more people like it, and it has commercial success, so DT will go on making music for long.
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You wouldn't find such FB posts (with that many likes - 3,5K now) like the one I linked to about any other DT album. This sentiment is also echoed on many forums.
I had the feeling that Facebook didn't exist until 2004 and didn't became popular after several years, same case with DT forums.. So that rules out like 3/4 out of those "other DT albums", right?.. :biggrin:
Ok, seriously now, I think this very same thing was discussed before, and I think now almost exactly what I thought back then: we can't know for sure whether a "good chunk of the fanbase" strongly hates the album, or if only half of it hates it, or any other possible combination of words trying to describe the "general consensus" about the album, metaphorically speaking.. What I'd be more interested to know, rather than what words we use to express how we felt and feel now about TA, is the amount of times we listened to it and, probably more important, under what circumstances.. Not the same if you only listened to it once (I know a few that did this and claim to dislike it) than if you listened to it let's say at least three or four times... but, clearly not the same either if you merely "hear" it, while driving or while doing other stuff in your house than if you really sit and listened to it..
Then again, yeah, all of this cannot be other than speculative, because doing some kind of poll or survey (one that reaches at least the majority of DT fans) in order to know all of this is just impossible..
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It is my firm belief that the prog community hates The Astonishing because they're a bunch of snobs, and sadly they're the only people who would actually take the time to listen to it...
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It is my firm belief that the prog community hates The Astonishing because they're a bunch of snobs, and sadly they're the only people who would actually take the time to listen to it...
It's a double concept album set in a dystopian future, I thought you pretty much had to be a snob to enjoy it. :lol
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You wouldn't find such FB posts (with that many likes - 3,5K now) like the one I linked to about any other DT album. This sentiment is also echoed on many forums.
I had the feeling that Facebook didn't exist until 2004 and didn't became popular after several years, same case with DT forums.. So that rules out like 3/4 out of those "other DT albums", right?.. :biggrin:
I'm pretty sure they had ytsejam forums back in the 90's. A few years ago someone linked me to some of the archives of their threads when Awake was about to come out. The reactions were very interesting. :lol
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It is my firm belief that the prog community hates The Astonishing because they're a bunch of snobs, and sadly they're the only people who would actually take the time to listen to it...
It's a double concept album set in a dystopian future, I thought you pretty much had to be a snob to enjoy it. :lol
In my eyes, it's a bunch of awesome 90's pop ballads :rollin
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It is my firm belief that the prog community hates The Astonishing because they're a bunch of snobs...
...who can't appreciate a good tune when they hear it. Honestly, the lukewarm reaction to The Astonishing has been one of the most disappointing things I've seen in my time in prog.
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It's true. When people don't like something I don't like, it's their fault and it's because they're wrong and flawed. Clearly what I like is perfect.
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As I was typing my original comment, FII came to my mind as well, but I get the impression that, in retrospect, most people seem to really like it (one of the most often cited positive opinions regarding Sons of Apollo is that it echoes FII). Remains to be seen how TA will be regarded in the more distant future.
Yeah, hard to foresee. They are/were disliked for different reasons though; FII mostly was disliked I feel because of stylistic choices/influences (by the label), whereas the criticism towards TA is more about the songwriting I think.
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As I was typing my original comment, FII came to my mind as well, but I get the impression that, in retrospect, most people seem to really like it (one of the most often cited positive opinions regarding Sons of Apollo is that it echoes FII). Remains to be seen how TA will be regarded in the more distant future.
Yeah, hard to foresee. They are/were disliked for different reasons though; FII mostly was disliked I feel because of stylistic choices/influences (by the label), whereas the criticism towards TA is more about the songwriting I think.
Perhaps by then people just won't have the time for music anymore, so it wouldn't matter anyway.
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The songwriting is what I enjoy about the music. Ive been to Operas before and it is exactly that. An Opera with metal music.
I bet a lot of people wouldn't be complaining if they released it as Dream Theater presents The Astonishing. Or John Petrucci presents the Astonishing with the music by Dream Theater.
I'm waiting for the day when someone decides to make it into an Opera production. It'd be really cool.
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It is my firm belief that the prog community hates The Astonishing because they're a bunch of snobs
No, the prog community hates TA because it isn't prog.
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The songwriting is what I enjoy about the music. Ive been to Operas before and it is exactly that. An Opera with metal music.
I bet a lot of people wouldn't be complaining if they released it as Dream Theater presents The Astonishing. Or John Petrucci presents the Astonishing with the music by Dream Theater.
I'm waiting for the day when someone decides to make it into an Opera production. It'd be really cool.
"John Petrucci presents the Astonishing with the music by Dream Theater" would work if they had different singers for every character, maybe an orchestra and other different contributors. With only DT members collaborating on it, it's purely and simply a DT album, no matter how you slice it.
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It is my firm belief that the prog community hates The Astonishing because they're a bunch of snobs
No, the prog community hates TA because it isn't prog.
:lol That's funny on a couple levels.
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It's my firm belief that some people like things and other people don't like things.
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It's true. When people don't like something I don't like, it's their fault and it's because they're wrong and flawed. Clearly what I like is perfect.
Clearly. :tup
It's my firm belief that some people like things and other people don't like things.
TheyDon'tNotDoThings?
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:biggrin:
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
I think the novel will help flesh out the story a bit more. Peter Orullian is a fantastic author, and a hell of a singer himself. (LaBrie is a big influence.) I am not thrilled with The Astonishing as a record, but I am very much looking forward to the book, and then revisiting the record after I've read it.
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
Prog fans can be quite terrible lol.
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
I think the novel will help flesh out the story a bit more. Peter Orullian is a fantastic author, and a hell of a singer himself. (LaBrie is a big influence.) I am not thrilled with The Astonishing as a record, but I am very much looking forward to the book, and then revisiting the record after I've read it.
I'm very much interested in the book. However, there will be no revisiting the album for me. Going to the concert earlier this year was all the revisiting I need for this lifetime. I don't think anything could ever change my opinion of their last album. It's pretty much unlistenable.
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I'm interested in the book for one reason. To dwell deeper into the world JP created.
I feel people still don't quite understand that this album isn't meant to be listened to as your usual album.
Its like a story book but told through the music. I imagine the characters, the settings, and the atmosphere.
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
Well said.
Am I 100% happy with it? No. Is anyone? Of course not. But rather than be happy for Dream Theater, and more specifically, Petrucci and Rudess, doing something that hasn't been done in a LONG time people would rather tear it down.
They've done more ambitious things with this project than anything in the past, and making 5.1 or instrumental bonus materials doesn't count, this thing was a HUGE undertaking and I don't think anyone else could have even come close to putting this together.
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
Missed opportunity
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
Missed opportunity
I tried to avoid the low hanging fruit ;)
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:lol
I'm interested in the book for one reason. To dwell deeper into the world JP created.
...
Its like a story book but told through the music. I imagine the characters, the settings, and the atmosphere.
Yeah, same here. It'll be cool to have some things fleshed out a bit more. I love Act I of the story because I think it sets up the world, the characters, and the conflict beautifully. Act II just has some flaws that bother me, and I'm not 100% happy with the execution of the resolution to the story, so I don't listen to Act II nearly as much. But one of the things I have long maintained would make the story better is this:
I get that the focus of the story is in the personal interactions between the characters, and how their own personal relationships are more important than the actual war part of the plot. It's kind of like how in the John Adams series a few years ago, despite that the Revolutionary War and, to a much lesser degree, the War of 1812 are HUGELY important to the context of what is going on, you don't actually see hardly any of the battles themselves in the series. But in John Adams, I didn't overly miss the battle scenes because there was plenty more that was done in the story that made me feel the plight of the soldier and citizen. For The Astonishing, I felt that was lacking. I felt the high stakes for the characters. And rightly so, since that is the focus. But the stake in the story are supposed to be so much higher given the condition of the common man throughout the realm and how many are actually dying, according to the lyrics in A Better Life. But beyond the two verses of lyrics in that song, I don't feel the plight of the average person in the realm, so the stakes don't feel as high. Despite the length of the album, I think we needed a song that digs into that a bit more. To me, it would fit better in Act I. But due to the imbalance in the comparative lengths of the two acts (admittedly done on purpose, because that's how two act plays are often done as well, with the resolution in act 2 being generally shorter), I think it could fit well in Act II and make Act II stronger. I REALLY wish they had done a song that gets into the fighting going on, and how people are dying, and the NOMACS are wreaking havoc. Just one song on that subject could have really raised the stakes in the story and made it have more of an emotional impact, IMO. Getting some of that in the book is the next best thing.
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I'm pretty sure JP had lots of ideas in mind he had to cut from the album. Could be why he felt the need to do a book, to let those ideas also be told in some way if its something he feels helps tell the story.
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It sounds interesting, I pre-ordered a copy, especially when I read it was limited to 2500 copies.
Decided to buy this rather than spend $250 AUS on a meet and greet ticket. This came in at $128 AUS.
I might still decide to buy the meet and greet for Melbourne. It was hard to decide! :)
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
I think the novel will help flesh out the story a bit more. Peter Orullian is a fantastic author, and a hell of a singer himself. (LaBrie is a big influence.) I am not thrilled with The Astonishing as a record, but I am very much looking forward to the book, and then revisiting the record after I've read it.
I'm very much interested in the book. However, there will be no revisiting the album for me. Going to the concert earlier this year was all the revisiting I need for this lifetime. I don't think anything could ever change my opinion of their last album. It's pretty much unlistenable.
How can an album with so many great melodies and vocals be "unlistenable"? I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word. That word is much more aptly applied to some of the stuff on FII, SC, and BCSL.
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
Yup, but we live in a world where the latest crap dropped by Taylor Swift gets a billion hits on YouTube. Refined musical taste was tossed out with the bath water I think.
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
Yup, but we live in a world where the latest crap dropped by Taylor Swift gets a billion hits on YouTube. Refined musical taste was tossed out with the bath water I think.
This seems like an ironic reply to how annoying prog snobbery is.
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It is my firm belief that the prog community hates The Astonishing because they're a bunch of snobs, and sadly they're the only people who would actually take the time to listen to it...
I'm not sure what constitutes being a prog snob.
When I hear snob I think of, super well informed, rather uppity and picky, to the point that goes beyond picky, but crosses over into a sense of self authority on a topic.
I'd consider myself a bit of a knucklehead, not happily but I tend to be a little bit more blunt and simple, I'd rather be that than a snob anyway. I truly hope I don't fall into the snob category with this.
But I can't stand this album, I've tried, I tried so hard, I listened, and listened, I hate it. Yeah, I can say the performances are good but beyond that, as far as my tastes go, this album blows so bad. I'd rather listen to Music From the Elder..... And the book? I read a lot, I just don't read books a lot. So, I may be the wrong person to chime in on this, but I'd rather have my head closed in my car door, not my *neck, but my melon, right above the ears, than attempt to read a book about an album that I think sucks as much as I think this one sucks.
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It is my firm belief that the prog community hates The Astonishing because they're a bunch of snobs, and sadly they're the only people who would actually take the time to listen to it...
I'm not sure what constitutes being a prog snob.
When I hear snob I think of, super well informed, rather uppity and picky, to the point that goes beyond picky, but crosses over into a sense of self authority on a topic.
I'd consider myself a bit of a knucklehead, not happily but I tend to be a little bit more blunt and simple, I'd rather be that than a snob anyway. I truly hope I don't fall into the snob category with this.
But I can't stand this album, I've tried, I tried so hard, I listened, and listened, I hate it. Yeah, I can say the performances are good but beyond that, as far as my tastes go, this album blows so bad. I'd rather listen to Music From the Elder..... And the book? I read a lot, I just don't read books a lot. So, I may be the wrong person to chime in on this, but I'd rather have my head closed in my car door, not my kneck, but my melon, right above the ears, than attempt to read a book about an album that I think sucks as much as I think this one sucks.
All right, I await to see the video of that then once the Astonishing book comes out and you opt to not read it, but do the bolded instead. Every time, I see a comment like that I want to go, "all right, do it then and show us video evidence."
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??? What's a kneck?
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??? What's a kneck?
THAT my friend would be a typo
:facepalm:
See, what did I say?
Knucklehead.
Or should I say nucklehead?
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It is my firm belief that the prog community hates The Astonishing because they're a bunch of snobs, and sadly they're the only people who would actually take the time to listen to it...
I'm not sure what constitutes being a prog snob.
When I hear snob I think of, super well informed, rather uppity and picky, to the point that goes beyond picky, but crosses over into a sense of self authority on a topic.
I'd consider myself a bit of a knucklehead, not happily but I tend to be a little bit more blunt and simple, I'd rather be that than a snob anyway. I truly hope I don't fall into the snob category with this.
But I can't stand this album, I've tried, I tried so hard, I listened, and listened, I hate it. Yeah, I can say the performances are good but beyond that, as far as my tastes go, this album blows so bad. I'd rather listen to Music From the Elder..... And the book? I read a lot, I just don't read books a lot. So, I may be the wrong person to chime in on this, but I'd rather have my head closed in my car door, not my kneck, but my melon, right above the ears, than attempt to read a book about an album that I think sucks as much as I think this one sucks.
All right, I await to see the video of that then once the Astonishing book comes out and you opt to not read it, but do the bolded instead. Every time, I see a comment like that I want to go, "all right, do it then and show us video evidence."
Hey, I said I'd rather INSTEAD of attempt to read the book..
Since I don't have to attempt to do so I don't have the make the choice, but rest assured if I ever had to you'd get your video.
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It is my firm belief that the prog community hates The Astonishing because they're a bunch of snobs, and sadly they're the only people who would actually take the time to listen to it...
Aww come on, mang. That's no better than saying everyone who loves The Astonishing is a mindless fanboy.
But anyway, shouldn't Prog Snobs praise this album for the sole reason that the band took a chance to do something risky and different? The Astonishing is unlike anything Dream Theater has done before. Like it or not The Astonishing is progressive!
I haven't been able to get into The Astonishing (only listened to it a few times) BUTT I'm a sci-fi, fantasy, dystopia fan so I'm actually interested in reading the book...one day.
Non-relevant reply: I don't think this book is a cash grab. Petrucci must feel strongly about the story to the point where he wants to expand upon it. That's fine with me. People who hate the album don't have to read the book. Freedom! :tup
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Guys....please believe me. I'm not a a big time reader, because I'm difficult to impress when it comes to reading.
Peter Orullian is DA MAN!!!
I was a fan of his Vault of Heaven series before he ever got tied to this project. And it is by far my favorite fantasy series. People try to talk up classics like The Wheel of Time, which is OK, but overall I find it pretty generic and derivative....but still somewhat enjoyable. But Vault of Heaven is an AMAZING series. Only two books so far, but very multi-layered with far more interesting characters and movtivations than anything I've seen from fantasy in a very long time. Not only that, but I know for a fact that he's been given license to embellish the story where ever he feels it needs a bit more fleshing out.
Trust me guys. This story is in the hands of a modern day master craftsman, and he will deliver the goods. He is a Dream Theater fan, a fantastic human being, and an immensely talented fantasy writer. This is going to be fun.
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Guys....please believe me. I'm not a a big time reader, because I'm difficult to impress when it comes to reading.
Peter Orullian is DA MAN!!!
I was a fan of his Vault of Heaven series before he ever got tied to this project. And it is by far my favorite fantasy series. People try to talk up classics like The Wheel of Time, which is OK, but overall I find it pretty generic and derivative....but still somewhat enjoyable. But Vault of Heaven is an AMAZING series. Only two books so far, but very multi-layered with far more interesting characters and movtivations than anything I've seen from fantasy in a very long time. Not only that, but I know for a fact that he's been given license to embellish the story where ever he feels it needs a bit more fleshing out.
Trust me guys. This story is in the hands of a modern day master craftsman, and he will deliver the goods. He is a Dream Theater fan, a fantastic human being, and an immensely talented fantasy writer. This is going to be fun.
A big YES and amen to all of that. :tup
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I just looked up Peter Orullian online - wanted to check out some of his books. My first impression..he kinda looks like JLB :yarr
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
I think the novel will help flesh out the story a bit more. Peter Orullian is a fantastic author, and a hell of a singer himself. (LaBrie is a big influence.) I am not thrilled with The Astonishing as a record, but I am very much looking forward to the book, and then revisiting the record after I've read it.
I'm very much interested in the book. However, there will be no revisiting the album for me. Going to the concert earlier this year was all the revisiting I need for this lifetime. I don't think anything could ever change my opinion of their last album. It's pretty much unlistenable.
How can an album with so many great melodies and vocals be "unlistenable"? I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word. That word is much more aptly applied to some of the stuff on FII, SC, and BCSL.
Opinions vary. I'll take FII, SC and BCSL over TA any day. The word "unlistenable" is highly subjective just like most everything else related to music.
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"Three Days" alone puts it over BC&SL, SC, and the self-titled, imo. That's DT at their creative best, just letting it all hang out there and trying weird stuff instead of just cramming more solos and minutes into the song. Short, sweet, but with a whole lot of 'whoa.'
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"Three Days" alone puts it over BC&SL, SC, and the self-titled, imo. That's DT at their creative best, just letting it all hang out there and trying weird stuff instead of just cramming more solos and minutes into the song. Short, sweet, but with a whole lot of 'whoa.'
Totally agree with this!
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Three Days is a fun little song, but I'm not sure how you could put ANY single song ahead of any of those albums. :lol
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Right, and it doesn't even speak to the quality of The Astonishing itself. It's one short song on a 2 hour epic of an album.
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When will the Majesty Casket be available for pre-order? Asking for my grandma.
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Three Days is a fun little song, but I'm not sure how you could put ANY single song ahead of any of those albums. :lol
'cause they ain't that good, fam.
:)
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
I think the novel will help flesh out the story a bit more. Peter Orullian is a fantastic author, and a hell of a singer himself. (LaBrie is a big influence.) I am not thrilled with The Astonishing as a record, but I am very much looking forward to the book, and then revisiting the record after I've read it.
I'm very much interested in the book. However, there will be no revisiting the album for me. Going to the concert earlier this year was all the revisiting I need for this lifetime. I don't think anything could ever change my opinion of their last album. It's pretty much unlistenable.
How can an album with so many great melodies and vocals be "unlistenable"? I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word. That word is much more aptly applied to some of the stuff on FII, SC, and BCSL.
"Great melodies and vocals" is totally subjective. As much as I tried to like the album, it's nothing more than a bloated snooze-fest for me. I don't care about the story or the characters either. Fifteen years ago, I probably would've gotten all chubbed up if you told me DT was putting out a 2-CD concept album. Nowadays, give me 9-10 quality songs and I'm more than thrilled. I simply don't have the time to put in the effort to digest all that music and force myself to like it just because it's DT.
Personally, I'd rather listen to Metallica's St. Anger. Production aside, at least there is a song or two I find okay.
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The snobbery and bashing towards this album in all corners of the web astounds me... sheesh... Bloody great album and I'm excited for the novel...
I think the novel will help flesh out the story a bit more. Peter Orullian is a fantastic author, and a hell of a singer himself. (LaBrie is a big influence.) I am not thrilled with The Astonishing as a record, but I am very much looking forward to the book, and then revisiting the record after I've read it.
I'm very much interested in the book. However, there will be no revisiting the album for me. Going to the concert earlier this year was all the revisiting I need for this lifetime. I don't think anything could ever change my opinion of their last album. It's pretty much unlistenable.
How can an album with so many great melodies and vocals be "unlistenable"? I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word. That word is much more aptly applied to some of the stuff on FII, SC, and BCSL.
"Great melodies and vocals" is totally subjective. As much as I tried to like the album, it's nothing more than a bloated snooze-fest for me. I don't care about the story or the characters either. Fifteen years ago, I probably would've gotten all chubbed up if you told me DT was putting out a 2-CD concept album. Nowadays, give me 9-10 quality songs and I'm more than thrilled. I simply don't have the time to put in the effort to digest all that music and force myself to like it just because it's DT.
Personally, I'd rather listen to Metallica's St. Anger. Production aside, at least there is a song or two I find okay.
Don't get me wrong - I totally respect your opinion to not like what you don't like and to like what you do like, but how do you dismiss someone else's opinion on the matter by saying it's "totally subjective" and then proceed to post your case which is also totally subjective? If your subjective opinion is worth stating and being respected, aren't contradictory opinions on the matter worth that as well?
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Don't get me wrong - I totally respect your opinion to not like what you don't like and to like what you do like, but how do you dismiss someone else's opinion on the matter by saying it's "totally subjective" and then proceed to post your case which is also totally subjective? If your subjective opinion is worth stating and being respected, aren't contradictory opinions on the matter worth that as well?
It was not my intention to dismiss Dream Team's opinion or anyone else's. Mine is just as subjective as any other opinion. Perhaps I didn't have the best delivery. I was simply elaborating on why I find the album to be unlistenable. I'm glad other people enjoy the album. Personally, I don't understand how. But, that's why there are so many different types of music in the world. I know there's plenty of music I enjoy that people here would consider cr@p. And, that's totally fine.
That said, I'm still curious about the book. I'm glad they're able to have this done.
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Don't get me wrong - I totally respect your opinion to not like what you don't like and to like what you do like, but how do you dismiss someone else's opinion on the matter by saying it's "totally subjective" and then proceed to post your case which is also totally subjective? If your subjective opinion is worth stating and being respected, aren't contradictory opinions on the matter worth that as well?
It was not my intention to dismiss Dream Team's opinion or anyone else's. Mine is just as subjective as any other opinion. Perhaps I didn't have the best delivery. I was simply elaborating on why I find the album to be unlistenable. I'm glad other people enjoy the album. Personally, I don't understand how. But, that's why there are so many different types of music in the world. I know there's plenty of music I enjoy that people here would consider cr@p. And, that's totally fine.
That said, I'm still curious about the book. I'm glad they're able to have this done.
How?....because we enjoy the melodies and songs. Its music.
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Three Days is a fun little song, but I'm not sure how you could put ANY single song ahead of any of those albums. :lol
'cause they ain't that good, fam.
:)
:umno:
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Three Days is a fun little song, but I'm not sure how you could put ANY single song ahead of any of those albums. :lol
'cause they ain't that good, fam.
:)
:umno:
I will defend my sentence to the death :biggrin: :lol
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Good luck with that. You're highly outnumbered. :p
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Good luck with that. You're highly outnumbered. :p
Not around here:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=49866.0
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I was always under the impression SC and BC&SL were among the albums most poorly received in DT's catalogue. Or, at least, two that haven't aged very well - just from my observations of people discussing the band for many years. Not that it matters a bit to me, I do like lots of songs between the two albums, I'm just floored with (several) songs on The Astonishing, for me personally, eclipsing both records in a matter of 3-4 minutes each.
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I was always under the impression SC and BC&SL were among the albums most poorly received in DT's catalogue. Or, at least, two that haven't aged very well - just from my observations of people discussing the band for many years. Not that it matters a bit to me, I do like lots of songs between the two albums, I'm just floored with (several) songs on The Astonishing, for me personally, eclipsing both records in a matter of 3-4 minutes each.
Around here (on DTF) according to that poll we did a while back - ADTOE and TA are by far the most liked records of the Road Runner era and SC and BC&SL were tied for last in that group. Keep in mind, that's based on the votes of 121 members here so to say it's a small sample would be an understatement, but it's what we got.
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Good luck with that. You're highly outnumbered. :p
Not around here:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=49866.0
He was comparing one TA song to those albums. That's different.
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Just my opinion, fellas. I really, really love that song. :)
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According to his updates on twitter, he's still in the writing process... I don't think it's going to be released before 2018... :corn
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Good luck with that. You're highly outnumbered. :p
Not around here:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=49866.0
He was comparing one TA song to those albums. That's different.
Well if we put it this way, I think The Path That Divides could easily be a BC&SL song.. :metal
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Path That Divides... That's the one where the chorus is like "When you're facing the path that divides, I will be there by your side', right? :-\ :-\ :-\
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Path That Divides... That's the one where the chorus is like "When you're facing the path that divides, I will be there by your side', right? :-\ :-\ :-\
Yes, it does recall that line at some point. I've found some similarities with Wither (first section) and The Shattered Fortress ("I know the day had come.." section).
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The Path That Divides has that really fast part from James that is reminiscent of This Dying Soul.
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Peter Orullian just confirmed on Facebook that the book is going to be released this year, on the holidays.
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Peter Orullian just confirmed on Facebook that the book is going to be released this year, on the holidays.
Good! Let's hope there will be a cheaper version... 70 $ for a book... :omg: I'm sure there will be a standard basic poor version!
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Peter Orullian just confirmed on Facebook that the book is going to be released this year, on the holidays.
Good! Let's hope there will be a cheaper version... 70 $ for a book... :omg: I'm sure there will be a standard basic poor version!
Hope they, at least, offer a digital version to download.
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Peter Orullian just confirmed on Facebook that the book is going to be released this year, on the holidays.
Good! Let's hope there will be a cheaper version... 70 $ for a book... :omg: I'm sure there will be a standard basic poor version!
Hope they, at least, offer a digital version to download.
I'm not so much into digital books, I love the smell of the pages... ::) Next concept album will be about the extinction of the traditional books!!! ;D
But for a special price... I'm afraid the shipping to Europe will be terribly expensive and slow!!!
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I'm not so much into digital books, I love the smell of the pages... ::) Next concept album will be about the extinction of the traditional books!!! ;D
People just don't have the time for reading anymore :rollin
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So, I guess they figured that the market for this book is so niche anyway, they might as well charge the hell out of the few who are willing to buy it.
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There's just no way in hell I'll shell out that amount for any book.
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More than $20 for a book, maybe $25 max for a big hardcover edition, is absurd.
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So, I guess they figured that the market for this book is so niche anyway, they might as well charge the hell out of the few who are willing to buy it.
I was thinking the same. I'd like to pick it up, but not at that price.
First draft finished today: https://twitter.com/PeterOrullian/status/910519088174260226
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More than $20 for a book, maybe $25 max for a big hardcover edition, is absurd.
Agree.
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I will say... he sounds like he's very excited about writing the book. I'm excited. I pre-ordered this, like, a year ago. It'll be cool to have.
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I've been following Peter's updates on FB and now I'm interested in reading the book, sounds good! But there's no way I'm paying that price, specially considering that in Mexico would be a lot more expensive. I hope there's a cheaper alternative.
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If I had no idea who this guy was, I probably wouldn't.
But for me, you guys would have to imagine like if Robert Jordan himself had risen from the grave and written this book. (and tbh, I like Peter's writing *A LOT* more than Robert Jordan's) He's literally my favorite fantasy author right now. So for me, it's my favorite (living) author with a novel based on an album from my favorite band. Kindof a no brainer that I'm shelling out just about whatever they are asking.
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I preordered it last year, and don't remember what I paid. I guess it was a lot? :)
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Peter just posted this on Facebook:
Woke up to this email from John Petrucci (for those who don't know, he's the guitarist for Dream Theater):
Holy fucking shit man!!!!
I just finished the novel. Couldn’t stop reading it.
I laughed, I cried…seriously!
I am so blown away right now and so happy and proud I could burst!
Have so many thoughts I want to share.
Please let me know when you can Skype.
Bravo my friend. You are a gem and such a talent!!!
Wow!!
JP
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Peter just posted this on Facebook:
Woke up to this email from John Petrucci (for those who don't know, he's the guitarist for Dream Theater):
Holy fucking shit man!!!!
I just finished the novel. Couldn’t stop reading it.
I laughed, I cried…seriously!
I am so blown away right now and so happy and proud I could burst!
Have so many thoughts I want to share.
Please let me know when you can Skype.
Bravo my friend. You are a gem and such a talent!!!
Wow!!
JP
If God approves I think we'll approve too. :corn
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I'm more surprised that JP wrote "holy fucking shit." Swearing seems rather uncharacteristic for JP to me. Maybe that's a sign this is gonna be really good after all :lol
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I'm more surprised that JP wrote "holy fucking shit." Swearing seems rather uncharacteristic for JP to me. Maybe that's a sign this is gonna be really good after all :lol
You got to remember. People put up an image for the people. That email is a personal email from John so it doesn't surprise me if he swears.
Well, if he said Holy Fucking Shit. Then he likes where the author went with it, which makes me excited.
I'm interested in exploring more of the land. Like the islands and the seas.
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I'm more surprised that JP wrote "holy fucking shit." Swearing seems rather uncharacteristic for JP to me. Maybe that's a sign this is gonna be really good after all :lol
Nah, he swears. https://youtu.be/vHVILKOCsfo?t=3m12s
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:rollin
I totally forgot about that part of that bonus DVD. That's hilarious.
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I'm more surprised that JP wrote "holy fucking shit." Swearing seems rather uncharacteristic for JP to me. Maybe that's a sign this is gonna be really good after all :lol
Nah, he swears. https://youtu.be/vHVILKOCsfo?t=3m12s
He does, indeed :lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lQrustGJq4
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I'm more surprised that JP wrote "holy fucking shit." Swearing seems rather uncharacteristic for JP to me. Maybe that's a sign this is gonna be really good after all :lol
Nah, he swears. https://youtu.be/vHVILKOCsfo?t=3m12s
He does, indeed :lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lQrustGJq4
Don't forget about "wish I weren't so fucked" :D
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I'm more surprised that JP wrote "holy fucking shit." Swearing seems rather uncharacteristic for JP to me. Maybe that's a sign this is gonna be really good after all :lol
Nah, he swears. https://youtu.be/vHVILKOCsfo?t=3m12s
He does, indeed :lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lQrustGJq4
Don't forget about "wish I weren't so fucked" :D
Regarding that line, I remember JLB saying in Lifting Shadows about A Change of Seasons that he wasn't comfortable with the original "I don't need your mercy fuck" line, because he felt like DT isn't the type of band that swears, so they changed it to "sympathy." They had a bit of an argument over the whole thing. Fast forward a few years, and we got As I Am.
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Mercy fuck doesn't rhyme so it's a little jarring
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Mercy fuck doesn't rhyme so it's a little jarring
Doesn't have to rhyme. It works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzBCsWv2jfQ
Also, that passionate delivery by JLB, wow, even though he goes through puberty for a second at "bay."
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'It works' is my least favourite musical term. the bassist in my last band used it so he could play in F even though the song was in F#
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'It works' is my least favourite musical term. the bassist in my last band used it so he could play in F even though the song was in F#
I don't get how that "works" :huh:
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'It works' is my least favourite musical term. the bassist in my last band used it so he could play in F even though the song was in F#
I don't get how that "works" :huh:
Depends. One of my songs is in the key of E minor & in the pre-chorus, the chord pattern is B-C-D-D#. The D# just acts as a chromatic to bridge the two together while also giving off a dissonant/heavy sound.
Edit: Oh, you meant that he played the whole song in the wrong key? Yeah, nevermind, that definitely doesn't work.
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'It works' is my least favourite musical term. the bassist in my last band used it so he could play in F even though the song was in F#
It works just as well as "sympathy," as that doesn't rhyme with anything either, and it doesn't have to. "Bay" rhymes with "day," that's it. Also, don't let your silly bassist ruin the expression, since what he did definitely didn't "work."
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But sympathy is a much more natural fit because it does rhyme :) He uses an ay vowel, which fits with the ay vowels in day and bay
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But sympathy is a much more natural fit because it does rhyme :) He uses an ay vowel, which fits with the ay vowels in day and bay
Not really. It's a pseudo-rhyme at best ("ee" and "ay," even though James does play around with it bit, like you said). Whether it rhymes or not is not really relevant anyway. Lyrics don't have to rhyme, they just need to have the right flow, accent, percussive value, etc. In this regard "mercy fuck" works just as fine. If MP wanted it to rhyme, he would have made it rhyme perfectly (like he made "day" rhyme with "day" so many times in The Best of Times).
If you look at the entire section:
I'm sick of all
You hypocrites
Holding me at bay
And I don't need
Your sympathy
To get me through the day
Seasons change
and so can I
Hold on Boy
No time to cry
Untie these strings
I'm climbing down
I won't let them push me away
Most of it doesn't rhyme, only the parts in bold are clear rhymes. Regardless, you can argue that "sympathy" fits better for many reasons, and I'd probably agree, but rhyming isn't one of those reasons.
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I'm more surprised that JP wrote "holy fucking shit." Swearing seems rather uncharacteristic for JP to me. Maybe that's a sign this is gonna be really good after all :lol
Nah, he swears. https://youtu.be/vHVILKOCsfo?t=3m12s
He just did it again! https://www.facebook.com/johnpetrucciFB/posts/1644008745651131:0
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I'm more surprised that JP wrote "holy fucking shit." Swearing seems rather uncharacteristic for JP to me. Maybe that's a sign this is gonna be really good after all :lol
Nah, he swears. https://youtu.be/vHVILKOCsfo?t=3m12s
He just did it again! https://www.facebook.com/johnpetrucciFB/posts/1644008745651131:0
:rollin
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That reminds me of those good ol' JR videos of stores that featured candies like breik and daim. :lol
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:lol :lol :lol
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I'm more surprised that JP wrote "holy fucking shit." Swearing seems rather uncharacteristic for JP to me. Maybe that's a sign this is gonna be really good after all :lol
Nah, he swears. https://youtu.be/vHVILKOCsfo?t=3m12s
He does, indeed :lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lQrustGJq4
Don't forget about "wish I weren't so fucked" :D
Regarding that line, I remember JLB saying in Lifting Shadows about A Change of Seasons that he wasn't comfortable with the original "I don't need your mercy fuck" line, because he felt like DT isn't the type of band that swears, so they changed it to "sympathy." They had a bit of an argument over the whole thing. Fast forward a few years, and we got As I Am.
Haven't read the book in a long time but my recollection was that Prater was strongly against that line as well. I'm very glad MP was outvoted here as it would've made me cringe every time I heard the song, not because I have a problem with swearing, just because it's an awful line imo.
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In the context of the song, that "fuck" line in ACoS doesn't work. I read it as "I don't need your mercy. For fucks sake." "Sympathy" just fits better overall.
In As I Am, "Fuck" fits due to the context of the song. Its an all out agressive middle finger song.
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He sings "I wish I weren't so fat" anyway :lol
So, on topic: an except from the Prologue of the book!
https://www.facebook.com/notes/dream-theater/the-astonishing-by-peter-orullian-prologue-preview/10154769333897181/
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He sings "I wish I weren't so fat" anyway :lol
It would be fantastic if he did. :lol
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So, on topic: an except from the Prologue of the book!
https://www.facebook.com/notes/dream-theater/the-astonishing-by-peter-orullian-prologue-preview/10154769333897181/
I like the content. But I hope it hasn't gone through final editing yet. Typos detract a bit.
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Is it really going to have breaks like that? I hope not. It looks like fan fiction that way. I'm still planning on reading it and I'm excited, but that price (looks like it's $75!! I don't see a cheaper option, just the one) is really off putting.
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That was nice. Good prologue on Evangeline and the Birth of Xander. Its going to be a great read.
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So, on topic: an except from the Prologue of the book!
https://www.facebook.com/notes/dream-theater/the-astonishing-by-peter-orullian-prologue-preview/10154769333897181/
I like the content. But I hope it hasn't gone through final editing yet. Typos detract a bit.
Hasn't been through any editing yet, I think. It was only a few days ago he said his first draft was finished.
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So, on topic: an except from the Prologue of the book!
https://www.facebook.com/notes/dream-theater/the-astonishing-by-peter-orullian-prologue-preview/10154769333897181/
I like the content. But I hope it hasn't gone through final editing yet. Typos detract a bit.
Hasn't been through any editing yet, I think. It was only a few days ago he said his first draft was finished.
Oh, okay, good. Wouldn't want anyone to have egg on their face for typing "yolk" instead of "yoke."
See what I did there?
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That reminds me of those good ol' JR videos of stores that featured candies like breik and daim. :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_aMH9BstBg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_aMH9BstBg)
&
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6t4KauxgSg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6t4KauxgSg)
I really miss JR videos. He did them during the Black Clouds and Silver Linings album sessions and almost everyday on tour and had fun clips like this. A lot of them feature the band going out to dinner and hanging out at the airports, which is cool and sad at the same time because apparently they weren't hanging out as a band a lot. The clips from that tour are awesome though and had some fun lighthearted moments like MP eating McDonald's at the airport and giving his review of the Quarter pounder he just ate as well as a breakdown of JP's and JR's sandwiches, just a random moment on tour captured and posted forever.
I wish JR would do those short studio updates for the next album as well.
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I didn't really enjoy the writing style of that. Too many really short sentences that broke the flow for me. Also, being the start of the book, the exposition felt a bit too blunt, but I'm sure that would improve as the book gets further in.
Not that I'd judge a whole book on a brief unedited intro, although I wasn't planning on getting the book anyway.
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Didn't find the writing very good. It was just very plain and ordinary. Feels like something you'd get as an assignment from college freshman.
Maybe it's just not for me.
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I have to agree about the writing. I do like fantasy novels, but I didn't particularly like the "choppy" style of it. I haven't read any of his other stuff to say whether that's his typical style or not.
Still, it's a draft, and perhaps the style of the prologue will be different than the rest of the book.
I'll still give it a chance when it comes out in a cheaper format.
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I don't mind the writing style, I found it to be interesting. I'll definitely be checking this out.
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I enjoyed reading that intro, i liked the writing style. I hope ir gets released in a cheaper formar. There's no way I can afford it.
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It's like listening to a demo. I'm sure it'll be more readable in the final print.
I have a feeling I'll enjoy it. What's funny too, as I read it again, Ravenskill came up on shuffle.
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I enjoyed this first chapter and the fact that we had the opportunity to "meet" Evangeline for a while... Maybe there will be some flashbacks to know better this character... It'd be nice!!!
The sensation was more or less like when you watch a movie and then after read the book.
It's a bit strange cause you know what's going to happen and I think this aspect won't let the reader, or at least me, enjoy it at 100%...
Anyway, I'm pretty excited and I'll probably buy it!!! A cheaper version of course!!! :biggrin:
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I guess no one else but me wants those unused song demos.
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I guess no one else but me wants those unused song demos.
Me me me me me.
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I guess no one else but me wants those unused song demos.
Me me me me me.
Seconded
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I guess no one else but me wants those unused song demos.
Me me me me me.
Seconded
Plus, one Astonishing song progress, from Iphone demo to finished product. I don't really need the poster again. I'll have 3 including the one with this book.
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I guess no one else but me wants those unused song demos.
Me me me me me.
Seconded
Plus, one Astonishing song progress, from Iphone demo to finished product. I don't really need the poster again. I'll have 3 including the one with this book.
I'll take one or two off your hands :biggrin:
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I guess no one else but me wants those unused song demos.
Me me me me me.
Seconded
Plus, one Astonishing song progress, from Iphone demo to finished product. I don't really need the poster again. I'll have 3 including the one with this book.
I'll take one or two off your hands :biggrin:
Its weird actually. Got one when they relased the vinyl of the boxset and then another one when they released the actual boxset. So I got two maps and two cds of The Astonishing
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I guess no one else but me wants those unused song demos.
Yeah, the sole reason I bought the book. I'll probably read it, but I really wanted the exclusive music.
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The cover of the novel is up on the DT facebook page:
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22424396_10154782690812181_8638659724793246945_o.jpg?oh=63c2db1c55caaa97e32c92b544808ba7&oe=5A70D285)
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Lots of people have been ripping this thing on Facebook since it was first announced. It's pretty sad to me honestly. God forbid a band put out a novel to accompany their 2-disc concept album with its own world and characters. Fuckin' rubes.
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I think the original CD album would have been a better option as far as the book cover goes. The yellow text is really distracting at least for me.
Hope they release it in Kindle Ebook format.
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Lots of people have been ripping this thing on Facebook since it was first announced. It's pretty sad to me honestly. God forbid a band put out a novel to accompany their 2-disc concept album with its own world and characters. Fuckin' rubes.
I agree. I took a quick look at some of the comments and quickly backed out of it. People going out of their way to write something like. "Yawn, yet another Dream Theater product to ignore". Why even waste your time writing that? If you're not interested, just move along. There's plenty of things I'm not interested in, but I don't seek them out and write FB posts telling the world how not interested I am in them. :\
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I love this and would love to get it. Lots of extras.
How about this scenario: Someone who knows nothing about DT picks up the book because they're into Sci-Fi. They read it and think it's a pretty decent book. Then later discover that there is a concept album for it. They buy the CDs. Are they more or less likely to like the album?
I would think, yes. But I already like TA.
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Lots of people have been ripping this thing on Facebook since it was first announced. It's pretty sad to me honestly. God forbid a band put out a novel to accompany their 2-disc concept album with its own world and characters. Fuckin' rubes.
I agree. I took a quick look at some of the comments and quickly backed out of it. People going out of their way to write something like. "Yawn, yet another Dream Theater product to ignore". Why even waste your time writing that? If you're not interested, just move along. There's plenty of things I'm not interested in, but I don't seek them out and write FB posts telling the world how not interested I am in them. :\
Bingo.
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Depends on wether they like this kind of music I guess. The love for a book alone won't make me appreciate an album about it if the musical style of the album simply isn't within my tastes.
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Lots of people have been ripping this thing on Facebook since it was first announced. It's pretty sad to me honestly. God forbid a band put out a novel to accompany their 2-disc concept album with its own world and characters. Fuckin' rubes.
I agree. I took a quick look at some of the comments and quickly backed out of it. People going out of their way to write something like. "Yawn, yet another Dream Theater product to ignore". Why even waste your time writing that? If you're not interested, just move along. There's plenty of things I'm not interested in, but I don't seek them out and write FB posts telling the world how not interested I am in them. :\
People have a right to their opinions and the expression of those opinions. Just like you're expressing your opinions now. They didn't seek anything out. It's all right there in front of them and they respond. That's what social media does. So, basically there really is only just a difference in opinion.
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Nobody is talking about rights. The fact that people have the right to be rude pricks doesn't make any of them less of a rude prick.
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Man, I've received similar comments on Facebook (on Dream Theater threads). The whole, "They have a right to express their dislike. Being a fan doesn't mean you have to like everything!"
Well, no, but you don't have to comment on the band's promotion telling them, "Get on with this shite," "Fuck this awful book and get back to making good music (ie music I PERSONALLY enjoy)" etc. It's sad.
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While I wasn't much of a fan of The Astonishing (and the debacle that came with the Super Deluxe edition with the NOMAC) I'd love to own this book from a completists point of view, but not at $75 bucks. I realize it's limited and probably VERY HIGH QUALITY.. but they already milked me for $200 on The Astonishing box set.
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That cover looks amazing. Makes me think the book is gonna be more of the war and conflicts.
I don't care about comments because why should I care. At least DT aren't deleting the negative posts.
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On the YouTube clip of The Gift of Music, one of the top comments is "No one hates Dream Theater more than Dream Theater fans." That's pretty funny.
On the other hand, I think all these negative comments (the one calling the album "shite" is the top rated one, with 183 likes as of right now) further prove thar TA is one of DT's most controversial albums (if not the). A disproportionately large part of the fanbase dislikes it. I think this will have an effect on the next album.
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It's hard for me to read comments that rude when everything done by this band on this (TA) seems so pure and experimental. An approach I do like and in some way expect from DT. I dont want another Metropolis or Images, enough bands copying themselfs like that. In someway all this worries me about the new album becoming a fanpleaser like the 25th I&W anniversery tour was already....sorry for my moody sense on this...
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Nobody is talking about rights. The fact that people have the right to be rude pricks doesn't make any of them less of a rude prick.
Yeah right, and I'm sure that name calling isn't held in very high regard either.
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Nobody is talking about rights. The fact that people have the right to be rude pricks doesn't make any of them less of a rude prick.
Yeah right, and I'm sure that name calling isn't held in very high regard either.
I don't think those people (the ones demanding the band 'fuck off with this shit') care much.
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That's not the point. I wasn't referring to them.
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What I find interesting is how most of those people claim MP is DT, yet DT allows those comments. Yet, MP goes and deletes those same kinds of comments about his band.
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What I find interesting is how most of those people claim MP is DT, yet DT allows those comments. Yet, MP goes and deletes those same kinds of comments about his band.
I was going to note this aswell. Neither JP or the other guys are deleting or responding to the comments.
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On the YouTube clip of The Gift of Music, one of the top comments is "No one hates Dream Theater more than Dream Theater fans." That's pretty funny.
On the other hand, I think all these negative comments (the one calling the album "shite" is the top rated one, with 183 likes as of right now) further prove thar TA is one of DT's most controversial albums (if not the). A disproportionately large part of the fanbase dislikes it. I think this will have an effect on the next album.
The Rude comments are disappointing so I guess if ever the band makes a new album that these rude people like I can say that this type of music is loved by rude people?
I don't think that way but kinda makes me pause for a while and think if the next "fan pleaser album" is really good because a bunch of bad and rude people want that type of music instead of the one in astonishing.
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Fans of The Astonishing will become rude, "After such a daring album you made a predictable one" :lol
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Fans of The Astonishing will become rude, "After such a daring album you made a predictable one" :lol
Would be hilarious. :lol :rollin
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I'm so excited for the book. Its really crazy how the NOMACS use sound to succumb the people outside TGNE.
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I just randomly remembered this. Wasn't the release date said to be the holidays 2017? I checked Peter Orullian's Facebook page, but he entirely stopped mentioning the book and just talks about his own band and album.
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The last email update I got said they just got the print of it and the band approved of it and need some final things for the special edition.
So basically :soon:
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Not related to the novel, but I recently discovered that Peter apparently is an old-school DT fan who was a part of the Ytsejam Mailing List back in the day (the method DT fans used to communicate with each other, before the online forums became commonplace). Anyhoo, here's a link to his first post to the list, focused on JL's vocals:
https://interzone.com/Music/Ytsejam/1995/Dec/0004.html
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So basically :soon:
Interesting question, does the switch of DT from RR to IO affect this? I somehow don't see a book release being in a record label's duties, but if it were I'm sure RR would have little desire continuing anything DT related.
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So basically :soon:
Interesting question, does the switch of DT from RR to IO affect this? I somehow don't see a book release being in a record label's duties, but if it were I'm sure RR would have little desire continuing anything DT related.
Nah. Its the special things in the special edition that is what they're waiting for. According to the update, but I'm hoping by the month or 2.
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So this still isn't out yet? Anybody haven't heard demo versions?
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Man, I've received similar comments on Facebook (on Dream Theater threads). The whole, "They have a right to express their dislike. Being a fan doesn't mean you have to like everything!"
Well, no, but you don't have to comment on the band's promotion telling them, "Get on with this shite," "Fuck this awful book and get back to making good music (ie music I PERSONALLY enjoy)" etc. It's sad.
Fans do have a right to express their dislike for things and, if people read this book and think it's rubbish, then I've got no issue with them saying so. The book isn't even out yet though so no reason for anyone to like or dislike it. If you're excited about the book and additional materials and want to talk about it then cool. If you're not interested and have no intention of reading it then why even get involved in the discussion just to say something rude and negative?
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Yeah, it's fine to not like something, and even to say why, but the way people just shat on things with rage and abuse which does nothing but possibly turn people off is just rude and inconsiderate.
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But it's inconsiderate for a band I like to release an album I don't like.
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It's inconsiderate to think the band is only there to make you happy and nobody else... certainly not themselves, they definitely can't be happy as long as it makes Jonny happy.
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Possible hot take and I don't give a hoot: The Astonishing is better (and less corny) than SFAM. Fight me. I can take you. :hat
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Possible hot take and I don't give a hoot: The Astonishing is better (and less corny) than SFAM. Fight me. I can take you. :hat
I agree! :tup
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I did a quick search there to see if there's any word of this being released. On Peter's facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/orullianpage/ there's a photo of him with JP 5 days ago. Someone commented to ask when the book's coming out and he responded with:
Novel is in layout. Should be done early next week. Then off to the printer. We're getting very close.
So hopefully we'll hear some official news soon.
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Possible hot take and I don't give a hoot: The Astonishing is better (and less corny) than SFAM. Fight me. I can take you. :hat
:lol I strongly disagree. But at the end of the day, you'll get no fight from me, as they're both amazing albums that are plenty worthy of adoration. :tup
I did a quick search there to see if there's any word of this being released. On Peter's facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/orullianpage/ there's a photo of him with JP 5 days ago. Someone commented to ask when the book's coming out and he responded with:
Novel is in layout. Should be done early next week. Then off to the printer. We're getting very close.
So hopefully we'll hear some official news soon.
Very cool.
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Peter Orullian on Facebook:
I'll have a final publication date next week. But copies should begin shipping in mid-March.
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Dream Theater just posted that the novel will be released on 18th of March. They charge 75 Dollars. 75 fucking dollars for a book! Just release it as paperback so that everyone can afford and read it! Sorry DT, I paid a ton of money for your stuff already, but this goes too far.
https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/posts/10155115385337181
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Nope.
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I'll wait for the paperback or e-book, if they are ever released.
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I already ordered it about 18 months ago, not really for the book itself to be honest (although I will give it a go) more for the nice packaging and extra stuff. Can't actually remember what the additional stuff is now but it was a Christmas present for Christmas 2016 so it wasn't me who paid for it!
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Not buying until they release a cheaper paperback version. $75 for a book. Get real. I hesitate to spend $40 on a damn video game.
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Not buying until they release a cheaper paperback version. $75 for a book. Get real. I hesitate to spend $40 on a damn video game.
$40? What are you still on PS2? :lol
Those fucking games for PS4 are like 60, 65 bucks. It blows.
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Not buying until they release a cheaper paperback version. $75 for a book. Get real. I hesitate to spend $40 on a damn video game.
$40? What are you still on PS2? :lol
Those fucking games for PS4 are like 60, 65 bucks. It blows.
That's what I'm saying! Even $40 is tough to spend. $60 + tax makes my ass itch.
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Can't actually remember what the additional stuff is now but it was a Christmas present for Christmas 2016 so it wasn't me who paid for it!
https://www.vaultbooks.pub/store/p17/The_Astonishing.html
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Not buying until they release a cheaper paperback version. $75 for a book. Get real. I hesitate to spend $40 on a damn video game.
$40? What are you still on PS2? :lol
Those fucking games for PS4 are like 60, 65 bucks. It blows.
That's what I'm saying! Even $40 is tough to spend. $60 + tax makes my ass itch.
Just FYI - I bought Mega Man 4 on NES brand spanking new in 1992 for $65. 26 years later, games are still only $60. Now think about how inflated the price of everything else has become. I mean, yeah, it's a lot of money, but I only put down full price for games I know I really want, and its been the same price for decades. I can't really complain.
On topic, I bought this, like most people that did I imagine, a year and a half ago. I don't care too much about the book, but wanted the extras. We'll see if it's worth it, but I've paid more for less when it comes to DT.
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Not buying until they release a cheaper paperback version. $75 for a book. Get real. I hesitate to spend $40 on a damn video game.
$40? What are you still on PS2? :lol
Those fucking games for PS4 are like 60, 65 bucks. It blows.
That's what I'm saying! Even $40 is tough to spend. $60 + tax makes my ass itch.
Just FYI - I bought Mega Man 4 on NES brand spanking new in 1992 for $65. 26 years later, games are still only $60. Now think about how inflated the price of everything else has become. I mean, yeah, it's a lot of money, but I only put down full price for games I know I really want, and its been the same price for decades. I can't really complain.
That's true. In those days standardized prices weren't a thing. Some brand new NES games could cost $15, some would cost $50. Some SNES games were upwards of $70 dollars or more. It's still a lot of money for one thing especially considering how many games most people end up getting for any given console. I'm okay with taking a few risks with games these days because they can be so massive and time consuming but there's always that 'gamble' element.
I wish they'd release a paperback version of this book alongside the limited edition. Apparently the paperback is coming later... but why? Sounds like a poor business move - people are going to stop caring, I'm sure the sales of this will be down compared to if it were released in 2016, but if they lock the book behind such a high price tag and only release a cheaper option later, that's just silly.
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The price is really ridiculous. I tend to buy random books in stores whenever I'm travelling abroad—sometimes I strike gold with my picks, sometimes I don't—but most of the books I buy are paperbacks that cost $15-20. When one of my favourite authors releases a new book, I would order it from amazon in hardcover for, say, $25 and additional $20 for shipping. Which amounts to total of $45, sometimes $50 at maximum.
There's no way I'm buying this book for $75, considering I didn't even like the story from the album.
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I wouldn't even pay 75$ for the actual album honestly, and I love it. That's simply out of range for a book. I'd consider it only for a super ultra mega especially special gigantic awesome majestic edition of a book I love, with illustrations, a gorgeous 3D cover and everything. Something that is nice even just by looking at it and holding it in your hands.
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I'm willing to pay $15-20 for the hard copy of the book (same price as the album), if I'm interested, and $5.00 for the e-book copy. Yeah, $75.00 is way too steep for books in general I feel, and not that too many people (still a decent number though) bought the album in the first place and not that many people like the story as well. Hard to get too many people to spend money on that price for the book, all things considered.
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Not buying until they release a cheaper paperback version. $75 for a book. Get real. I hesitate to spend $40 on a damn video game.
$40? What are you still on PS2? :lol
Those fucking games for PS4 are like 60, 65 bucks. It blows.
You'd hate Australia
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Not buying until they release a cheaper paperback version. $75 for a book. Get real. I hesitate to spend $40 on a damn video game.
$40? What are you still on PS2? :lol
Those fucking games for PS4 are like 60, 65 bucks. It blows.
That's what I'm saying! Even $40 is tough to spend. $60 + tax makes my ass itch.
Just FYI - I bought Mega Man 4 on NES brand spanking new in 1992 for $65. 26 years later, games are still only $60. Now think about how inflated the price of everything else has become. I mean, yeah, it's a lot of money, but I only put down full price for games I know I really want, and its been the same price for decades. I can't really complain.
Not to stray too far from the topic, but I was just discussing this with someone at my office who is probably in her early 20s. I told her that I had a Colecovision when I was in my teens and then owned the original NES, an SNES, a PS1, a PS3, a Gamecube, a Wii, and now a PS4 (which was a Christmas gift for my kid). If I'm not greatly mistaken, all of those systems (with the possible exception of the Gamecube) cost about the same when they were new (about $200). Same with new games: about $50-60. What that means is that, according to an online calculator, my mother paid the equivalent of over $500 in today's dollars for my Colecovision. On the other hand, I just ordered Overwatch for the PS4 and paid $38 on Amazon Prime.
On topic...$75?!?! I don't care if it is limited to 700 copies, that's NUTS!
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I guess they did their market research and figured this is the way they'd squeeze the most money out of the book. I mean, it's a niche book of a niche band in a niche genre, based on an album which divided even their most devoted fans. Can't get much more niche than that.
There's probably a bigger market for these $375 leather jackets. https://dreamtheater.fanfire.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Store.woa/wa/product?sourceCode=DRAWEBWWUSD&sku=DRA43026
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I think, a *good* leather jacket goes for even more than 375. But then again, I don't think that this is a good leather jacket.
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I won't lie, I've wanted that jacket for over 10 years and I still do
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The jacket looks nice, but I wouldn't pay that much for any band logo jacket. The other thing at that site that struck me was the $75 backpack. Are you kidding me?!
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I bought a pretty cool coffee mug from that site for about 15.00 years ago.
But for 10.00 I got 2 8x10 autographed JP photos and a hand written note from his wife from JP years ago. Not sure if they still are available, I believe it was from his site.
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Just received an Email that Publication date is March 16th and orders will be shipped on March 17th.
Also interesting to note, they only have 9 copies left.
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I've put this in the cart to buy it six times, and haven't pulled the trigger. It's not that I don't want to buy it. I do. But 75 bucks, plus 12 for priority shipping, or six for media mail, puts this at 80+ dollars. And to be honest, I just want to read the story. I am not into all the fancy packaging or the extras. I just want a better understanding of The Astonishing. Peter Orullian is a great writer (and a hell of a nice guy), and a gifted singer (he has fronted Fifth Angel for years and done an outstanding job). But I just can't justify the cost.
Hopefully a normal hardcover edition is released later this year for a typical hardcover price.
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I've put this in the cart to buy it six times, and haven't pulled the trigger. It's not that I don't want to buy it. I do. But 75 bucks, plus 12 for priority shipping, or six for media mail, puts this at 80+ dollars. And to be honest, I just want to read the story. I am not into all the fancy packaging or the extras. I just want a better understanding of The Astonishing. Peter Orullian is a great writer (and a hell of a nice guy), and a gifted singer (he has fronted Fifth Angel for years and done an outstanding job). But I just can't justify the cost.
Hopefully a normal hardcover edition is released later this year for a typical hardcover price.
I'm sure they will. Once publication date hits, they (hopefully) might release other forms of the book. Seems odd not to do a digital release at least.
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Maybe I'll do an "unboxing video". This is my favorite modern author doing a book based on a story from my favorite band so....I would have shelled out twice that much.
EDIT - I hope to God that Peter doesn't read that though...
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Maybe I'll do an "unboxing video". This is my favorite modern author doing a book based on a story from my favorite band so....I would have shelled out twice that much.
EDIT - I hope to God that Peter doesn't read that though...
Pete's a great dude. Aside from being a great singer, I am really fond of The Unremembered. I still need to read his other stuff.
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Pete and John talking about the book tomorrow with the fans:
https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/posts/10155153607227181
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Did anyone catch that live stream? (I don’t use Instagram). Anything interesting in it?
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I totally forgot about that. I wonder how it went and what was said.
Edit: just messaged Peter on facebook. The DT team is planning on releasing the video. Also, the book will start shipping later this week.
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They did a post about the book on their Facebook. It’s interesting to see from the Facebook post and the picture of I assume JP’s notes that Arhys’ name was originally Atticus
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And also Gabriel was originally Gabreil and the narrator was originally a narator :P
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My "exclusive content" got Emailed to me today. No big deal, but kinda cool. Just some really early recordings of just JP and JR hammering out the early ideas that would become The Gift of Music.
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Sorry to be the contrarian, but this Astonishing novel package is looking to be worth every penny (to me). 4 unreleased early ideas for songs, plus 5 rough mixes and guide tracks of Gift of Music - since i love me some instrumental stems from previous special releases, these extras give a unique perspective (although in this instance are live takes, not instrumental stems).
It's nice to be a fly on the wall while JP and JR meld their creative mastery. There's a funny moment when the iPhone recording the session receives a text message alert sound, giving the guys a playful chuckle as they play.
Looking forward to the book and whatever else that arrives with it, because I certainly don't entirely remember what I bought.
Apologies if this news ruins your Easter/Passover.
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Yeah, there's about a half hour of music (mostly Gift of Music stuff), and it's pretty interesting. The Unused Ideas are fun to hear as well.
I can't help but think that this kind of stuff would work well as Ytsejam releases. I'm sure they have hours and hours of tapes for the last three albums, and I'd definitely be interested in hearing more like these tracks.
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So has anyone got the book yet? If so, what's it like?
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My unboxing video....
(I talk too much)
https://youtu.be/QR4GsA8zUfI
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I haven't gotten around to checking my mail. I bet its there, along with Ayreon Universe (hopefully).
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My unboxing video....
(I talk too much)
https://youtu.be/QR4GsA8zUfI
Great video! Hope you post one with your thoughts on the story, once you get to finish the book.
The book itself looks really cool, and I wish I ordered it, but I just couldn't justify paying that much for it.
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Just found the email for the "exclusive content". It's pretty nice hearing the unused song ideas, some of them are actually neat. The Gift of Music stuff is good too, I like the Guitar and Keys only studio guide track.
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My unboxing video....
(I talk too much)
https://youtu.be/QR4GsA8zUfI
Peter Orullian shared your video on twitter :tup
https://twitter.com/PeterOrullian/status/979784819528818688
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Oh wow cool!!!! Let the “get out of your mothers basement” haters begin!!!
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My novel arrived today, copy 609 of 750. Looking forward to reading JP's breakdown of each song in the "bonus" content section - I like absorbing creative insight like that and exploring the deconstruction of the writing process.
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The novel is really good, I think. I enjoyed it and think it did the album justice. The characters are more fleshed out and there are some things that surprised me.
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Also, Dave Manchester will be happy to know that his favorite character from the album does appear in the novel...
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My concern is the following: is it actually a good novel, or just good by adaptation/novelization standards? For such a price there had better be some wonderful writing, but it looks like the story isn't even that long, I think only a couple hundred pages.
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My concern is the following: is it actually a good novel, or just good by adaptation/novelization standards? For such a price there had better be some wonderful writing, but it looks like the story isn't even that long, I think only a couple hundred pages.
It does come with some good interviews as well. Haha at JM's after reading JP, JR and JLB.
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I don't think you can really look at it that way. Instead, I think it should be looked at like a special album edition package. It doesn't mean the band is saying that the album is worth $100 while most others are just worth $15. They're presenting a package and you can decide if you want it or not. To expect the book to be the greatest writing of all time because it's so expensive is unrealistic.
I ordered the novel almost as soon as it was available. Was it really worth that much? I don't know; I just wanted it. I was actually expecting it to not be very good, but I wanted to read it anyway, along with the interviews.
It turns out that I really liked it a lot. I do wish it was longer - definitely. Some of it is probably more rushed than it needs to be. It also has some typos. However - I still thought it was great. I'm interested in checking out what else he's written.
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In all fairness though, if you're charging $75, it doesn't matter what else it comes with, the meat of the presentation is the 'novel' of the same album you paid for, so I would expect some high quality writing, zero typos, and certainly not rushed sections after waiting so long. Frankly this sounds disappointing especially coming from a fan of fantasy novels. :( Guess I'll skip, but oh well. Happy that you're pleased however!
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I'm not trying to convince you to spend $75. If you only want the novel and nothing else, it makes sense to wait and see if they're going to offer an ebook or something.
However, I wouldn't let a few typos discourage you if the whole package is something you might be interested in. The writing was very good - let me put it this way. I know how the story ends. But I read the book the same way I would have if I didn't. Nervous, full of anticipation, etc.
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I'm not trying to convince you to spend $75. If you only want the novel and nothing else, it makes sense to wait and see if they're going to offer an ebook or something.
I asked this when I got the bonus digital stuff. Peter said the band was working on a possible ebook release but didn't give a time as far as when it will be available.
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In all fairness though, if you're charging $75, it doesn't matter what else it comes with, the meat of the presentation is the 'novel' of the same album you paid for, so I would expect some high quality writing, zero typos, and certainly not rushed sections after waiting so long. Frankly this sounds disappointing especially coming from a fan of fantasy novels. :( Guess I'll skip, but oh well. Happy that you're pleased however!
Its actually pretty good for what JP had. He could only have so much budget for this, I bet a good editor is pretty expensive. I know JP wanted to do this as best as he could do.
I agree Lethean, I was the same way I bought it once it went on sale. I'm happy with it.
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I would suggest that people at least check out Peter’s writing and see fi they like it.
I have personally read the first two books of the Vault of Heaven series (The Unremembered and Trial of Intensions) as well as two short story collections from the same universe (The Vault of Heaven and The Sound of Broken Absolutes) and I think they are better than much of what passes for fantasy these days. Heck...I personally think he’s better than Jordan.
But those four books are fairly inexpensive on Amazon.
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I'll definitely be checking out some of his books.
What do you mean about him being better than Jordan?
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I'm sure he means Robert Jordan, the pen name for James Oliver Rigney, jr who wrote a series of Conan books but is most famous for his Wheel of Time series.
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Ah, OK. I haven't read that but have heard that a lot of people like it.
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It's soooo good. I know me and twosuitsluke are huge Wheel of Time fans. Big time investment but one of my favorite fantasy worlds ever...
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I'm sure he means Robert Jordan, the pen name for James Oliver Rigley, jr who wrote a series of Conan books but is most famous for his Wheel of Time series.
Yes, that is what I meant. I probably should have said his whole name, but he’s just so big that I figured that saying his name was the same as saying “Spielberg” to a group of film students. LOL
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This is why I love Peter’s writing. Even more than just the narrative, I love running across passages like this.
Not all silence is awkward. Just like not all silence is heavy and sad. Some silences are beautiful. They’re filled with the ghosts of memory. They hold up a backdrop against which a whisper means everything.
Such a beautifully written line that I had to reread it just for the sake of enjoying it so much.
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Well I'm not a fantasy student so... :)
I'm more of a general fiction reader, I guess you'd say. I just like something I can get wrapped up in. I read Tolkien as a kid and loved, and read it again as an adult. But I never specifically looked for fantasy; I love Stephen King but don't necessarily look for horror in general (nor do I avoid it).
I read Game of Thrones because it was at a book stand when I needed something to read, and looked like the most interesting of the bunch. I loved it and read the whole series as a result.
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This is why I love Peter’s writing. Even more than just the narrative, I love running across passages like this.
Not all silence is awkward. Just like not all silence is heavy and sad. Some silences are beautiful. They’re filled with the ghosts of memory. They hold up a backdrop against which a whisper means everything.
Such a beautifully written line that I had to reread it just for the sake of enjoying it so much.
+1 on that line.
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It's soooo good. I know me and twosuitsluke are huge Wheel of Time fans. Big time investment but one of my favorite fantasy worlds ever...
Me three! ;D
It is a bit of a slog at times, but definitely worth the effort. It’s the most expansive fantasy world I’ve read.
This is why I love Peter’s writing. Even more than just the narrative, I love running across passages like this.
Not all silence is awkward. Just like not all silence is heavy and sad. Some silences are beautiful. They’re filled with the ghosts of memory. They hold up a backdrop against which a whisper means everything.
Such a beautifully written line that I had to reread it just for the sake of enjoying it so much.
That’s cool. I like that kind of style to serve as a prologue or to start off a chapter.
I’m still gonna wait for the ebook, hopefully we’ll get an announcement about that soon..
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Of course! How could I forget the guy whose username is actually one of the characters? :metal
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:lol
In fairness I’ve been quiet recently. Unfortunately I’ve actually had to do work, in work, rather than browse DTF for most of the day. Kind of a drag.. ;D
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It's soooo good. I know me and twosuitsluke are huge Wheel of Time fans. Big time investment but one of my favorite fantasy worlds ever...
All this time bashing it. Yet, he enjoys it.
Hahaha... Life is funny
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Hello everyone,
Greetings from Finland. I have been a DT fan since 2002 after listening The Glass Prison. After that I've devoured everything they put out, including all albums, live DVDs, Ytsejam releases and books (including 3 different versions of the Lifting Shadows book). I'm a long time stalker on this forum, but finally reached out to become a member and post few things regarding the Astonishing novel. I actually ordered 2 by accident. One of them is 15/750 of the signed copies of the book. The other one I don't know, because I haven't opened it.
I find many people have been worried if the story of the Astonishing is good enough to produce a great novel. Don't worry, it is. Peter Orullian has fleshed out both the setting, the characters and the story itself to a point it's a very interesting read. I don't want to spoil anyone who wants to wait for e-book or paperback version of the novel so I put my five cents in the spoiler tag
[SPOILER]
Firstly, Orullian takes his time to flesh out and characterize the G.N.E.A continent and the most important cities and places and also a little bit outside of it. There is collaboration between several great Empires on different sides of earth, including Europe. But there are also many resistance movements Ravenskill Militia being only one of them.
The story begins with a scene where Xander is born in very uneasy circumstances. A fracture is generated in the bond between two brothers, Arhys and Gabriel, when the older tries to persuade the younger to resuscitate his dying wife with his song but the attempt fails. After the incident Arhys becomes this cold, calculating resistance leader who is constantly pushing Gabriel to develop his magical song to be used as a weapon in a fight against the Empire.
Also the royal family of the Great North Empire is fleshed out nicely. The funny names they have are so called ”second names” which speak to the value or attribute or capabiity of a person. Nafaruys was a way of warning a population that they'd best be cautious under the new emperor. Arabelle is capable of seeing all sides of the argument without bias and Faythe is a royal diplomat who is settling arguments between nations. Daryus is the only one without a second name and is therefore eager to show his quality with different demonstrations of power the main one being the ”Strength Program” which can make NOMACS killing machines that demolish a human being from the inside with their music.
The novel pictures nicely how the Empire and Ravenskill Militia both have good intentions for the future, but the methods are different. Nafaruys tries to have a control over scarce resources and settle the arguments through Faythe's trancendent diplomat abilities while Arhys and the resistances try to overthrow the dictatorship.
The story unwinds like in the album to the point where two sides are supposed to have a meeting in the Heavens Cove. At this point all hell breaks loose because of Daruys' schemes and misunderstandings between factions. There begins an all out war on the Endless Isleland, the place where Ravenskill is located. This chapter is particularly nice read because you see or hear none of it in the album.
All in all the story is very well written, entertaining, moving and very nicely done considering the source material. The new and fleshed out chapters are the ones that stand out the most. My favourite one may be the scene where Arhys is hunting down the two snipers that have been threatening him during the conversation between Daruys about the fate of Xander.
If I have to nitpic, in my opinion the story may come to an end a bit too abruptly. While there are 32 chapters only the last three of them happen in the Heaven's Cove while in the album there were 10 songs dedicated to that climax moment. After reading long quiet chapters which took their time to paint scenery and characters, it feels almost rushed. And while the magical abilities of Gabriel's songs are underlined the whole story the healing of his own voice in the end is not very well explained.
Despite these little nitpics I'm glad I bought the book. It compliments the album and it's story beautifully adding to the lore and characters. There is also a bonus chapter which tells the story how Nafaruys abandoned his music player and became this cold hearted tyrant.
There are also an interview with all DT members. While JP and JR are these humble masters that are very involved in the story and structure of the album, JLB seems to mostly talk about his difficulties in singing and his forthcoming solo material.
It makes me uneasy to read JMX's and MM's interviews 'cause I got the feeling they were not very pleased not to be a part of the writing process. For example when asked JMX which was the most challenging part in The Astonishing he answered that it was a challenge interpreting what John and Jordan wanted to do with the album and what was going on musically. MM was most proud of being able to improvise the recording of the drums as he had no idea what the intended result of the songs was. Also when asked about advice for aspiring songwriters he said ”It depends on the job one has to do for sure. If you're hired, do what you're asked. If it is for joy and personal fun, then write music that you like to listen to and play.” It's not hard to see which one it is for him with the Astonishing O_o
Even if I love the Astonishing as an album and accomplishment I'm glad they will be back writing the next album together because I sense the frustration in those interviews.
[/SPOILER]
Bottom line, the novel of the Astonishing is very good read, for me worth the money and effort. It's a shame so few are going to read it. I'm gonna treasure it, (them) like all my DT stuff, forever :)
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The funny names they have are so called ”second names” which speak to the value or attribute or capabiity of a person. Nafaruys was a way of warning a population that they'd best be cautious under the new emperor. Arabelle is capable of seeing all sides of the argument without bias and Faythe is a royal diplomat who is settling arguments between nations. Daryus is the only one without a second name and is therefore eager to show his quality with different demonstrations of power the main one being the ”Strength Program” which can make NOMACS killing machines that demolish a human being from the inside with their music.
Now that suddenly makes a loooot of sense! Really, if "Nafaryus" was his birth name.... the hell was wrong with his father? ;D
If I have to nitpic, in my opinion the story may come to an end a bit too abruptly. While there are 32 chapters only the last three of them happen in the Heaven's Cove while in the album there were 10 songs dedicated to that climax moment. After reading long quiet chapters which took their time to paint scenery and characters, it feels almost rushed.
Well, one could make the counter-argument for the album, that with so many story glossed over for time constraints, the second discs spends so much time on the climatic moments. If you pretend you're watching a play with the singers acting what they're singing, you'd have Faythe laying down in agony for 10 minutes straight, that's the time it takes to go from her stabbing to Gabriel reanimating her.
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Hello everyone,
Greetings from Finland. I have been a DT fan since 2002 after listening The Glass Prison. After that I've devoured everything they put out, including all albums, live DVDs, Ytsejam releases and books (including 3 different versions of the Lifting Shadows book). I'm a long time stalker on this forum, but finally reached out to become a member and post few things regarding the Astonishing novel. I actually ordered 2 by accident. One of them is 15/750 of the signed copies of the book. The other one I don't know, because I haven't opened it.
I find many people have been worried if the story of the Astonishing is good enough to produce a great novel. Don't worry, it is. Peter Orullian has fleshed out both the setting, the characters and the story itself to a point it's a very interesting read. I don't want to spoil anyone who wants to wait for e-book or paperback version of the novel so I put my five cents in the spoiler tag
[SPOILER]
Firstly, Orullian takes his time to flesh out and characterize the G.N.E.A continent and the most important cities and places and also a little bit outside of it. There is collaboration between several great Empires on different sides of earth, including Europe. But there are also many resistance movements Ravenskill Militia being only one of them.
The story begins with a scene where Xander is born in very uneasy circumstances. A fracture is generated in the bond between two brothers, Arhys and Gabriel, when the older tries to persuade the younger to resuscitate his dying wife with his song but the attempt fails. After the incident Arhys becomes this cold, calculating resistance leader who is constantly pushing Gabriel to develop his magical song to be used as a weapon in a fight against the Empire.
Also the royal family of the Great North Empire is fleshed out nicely. The funny names they have are so called ”second names” which speak to the value or attribute or capabiity of a person. Nafaruys was a way of warning a population that they'd best be cautious under the new emperor. Arabelle is capable of seeing all sides of the argument without bias and Faythe is a royal diplomat who is settling arguments between nations. Daryus is the only one without a second name and is therefore eager to show his quality with different demonstrations of power the main one being the ”Strength Program” which can make NOMACS killing machines that demolish a human being from the inside with their music.
The novel pictures nicely how the Empire and Ravenskill Militia both have good intentions for the future, but the methods are different. Nafaruys tries to have a control over scarce resources and settle the arguments through Faythe's trancendent diplomat abilities while Arhys and the resistances try to overthrow the dictatorship.
The story unwinds like in the album to the point where two sides are supposed to have a meeting in the Heavens Cove. At this point all hell breaks loose because of Daruys' schemes and misunderstandings between factions. There begins an all out war on the Endless Isleland, the place where Ravenskill is located. This chapter is particularly nice read because you see or hear none of it in the album.
All in all the story is very well written, entertaining, moving and very nicely done considering the source material. The new and fleshed out chapters are the ones that stand out the most. My favourite one may be the scene where Arhys is hunting down the two snipers that have been threatening him during the conversation between Daruys about the fate of Xander.
If I have to nitpic, in my opinion the story may come to an end a bit too abruptly. While there are 32 chapters only the last three of them happen in the Heaven's Cove while in the album there were 10 songs dedicated to that climax moment. After reading long quiet chapters which took their time to paint scenery and characters, it feels almost rushed. And while the magical abilities of Gabriel's songs are underlined the whole story the healing of his own voice in the end is not very well explained.
Despite these little nitpics I'm glad I bought the book. It compliments the album and it's story beautifully adding to the lore and characters. There is also a bonus chapter which tells the story how Nafaruys abandoned his music player and became this cold hearted tyrant.
There are also an interview with all DT members. While JP and JR are these humble masters that are very involved in the story and structure of the album, JLB seems to mostly talk about his difficulties in singing and his forthcoming solo material.
It makes me uneasy to read JMX's and MM's interviews 'cause I got the feeling they were not very pleased not to be a part of the writing process. For example when asked JMX which was the most challenging part in The Astonishing he answered that it was a challenge interpreting what John and Jordan wanted to do with the album and what was going on musically. MM was most proud of being able to improvise the recording of the drums as he had no idea what the intended result of the songs was. Also when asked about advice for aspiring songwriters he said ”It depends on the job one has to do for sure. If you're hired, do what you're asked. If it is for joy and personal fun, then write music that you like to listen to and play.” It's not hard to see which one it is for him with the Astonishing O_o
Even if I love the Astonishing as an album and accomplishment I'm glad they will be back writing the next album together because I sense the frustration in those interviews.
[/SPOILER]
Bottom line, the novel of the Astonishing is very good read, for me worth the money and effort. It's a shame so few are going to read it. I'm gonna treasure it, (them) like all my DT stuff, forever :)
Thanks for posting! This made me want the book even more, hope they release it on digital or, at least, in a cheaper book version :D
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Cool review and resume of the book, fluojn, thanks a lot! It seems really an interesting read for those who liked the history already told in the album. But I’ll wait for a cheaper version.
Could you tell us what James said about his next solo album? Thanks!
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Life got in the way, and I put the book down for several months, but I had a sick day in bed today and I finished it off.
I really think Peter was the perfect guy for the job. What he had been doing with the Vault of Heaven series so closely resembles what JP was trying to accomplish that it just seems like Peter was the right guy who just happened along at the perfect time.
Peter has passages that are so perfect, you just want to read them over and over again. Although in the case of The Astonishing, I have to say that the source material was a bit thin. And while Peter did a fantastic job of fleshing out the story, the characters, and the emotions of everyone involved, it’s not as weighty as The Vault of Heaven. And to be honest, it probably shouldn’t be, I just don’t want anyone to think that Peter’s writing is always this “short story”-ish and maybe a bit more “happy”. His normal writing is extremely similar, but much deeper and much darker IMO.
But the marriage of John’s story with Peter’s writing was a good one. Now please....SOMEONE go out and get The Unremembered. It’s a fantastic book.
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Paperback and ebook now available:
https://www.orullian.rocks/blog/new-editions-of-the-astonishing
I must admit, my enthusiasm level for this isn’t high, but I will grab the Kindle version and give it a go st some point.
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Thanks for posting! I'll pick one of these up.
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Thanks for posting! The postal situation in Brazil is so shit that the kindle version was my only hope of accessing it. Glad to see it's got the band interviews and extra chapters and all.
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Honestly, I don't have the least bit interest in reading the book, and I LOVE The Astonishing.
That said, I think it's awesome that this has finally come to fruition and I'm so happy for JP. I would love to read the liner notes, foreword, etc...
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Just placed my order for it. While I do want to finally read this book, I have to say, I think I'm more excited about reading the band member interviews in it.
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Are the interviews in the kindle version?
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Mmm, just went on to amazon.co.uk and it looks like only the paperback is available. What gives??
£15 for the paperback too. Seems a little steep IMO.
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I enjoyed the limited edition book that I just recently read for the first time. It definitely was a good read - nothing mindblowing and still not an extremely strong story, but well worth a read.
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I like that the book description starts with "In a not so distant future" while literally the first words on the album are "Far in the distant future, beyond the pages of mankind" :lol
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Thats good he's finally, due to band demand, making it available digitally and in paperback.
I bought the book for the story and also, mainly the bonus cd of unused ideas. Its neat hearing the progress of The Gift of Music from idea to full song. It's the only way to get an Instrumental version of the song.
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Are the interviews in the kindle version?
Yes! Track by track story 'splanation by JP as well!
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Don't want to destroy the joy for this edition, but it does seem kind of a rip off that first they sell a highly overpriced limited edition of the book, don't answer if it will be available as a normal paperback book - and then finally release it for 19 bucks on amazon.
Anyway, I will be getting this, it's available on German Amazon prime for 18,82€ (probably 19,99$ in €).
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The Kindle edition is on amazon.co.uk now, for £7.99. The interviews and track by track breakdown are definitely included as well. I’ll probably dip into those before getting time to read the rest of it.
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Paperback and ebook now available:
https://www.orullian.rocks/blog/new-editions-of-the-astonishing
I must admit, my enthusiasm level for this isn’t high, but I will grab the Kindle version and give it a go st some point.
Finally a more affordable version! I will definitely grab it.
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Still on the fence about this. At least Kevin J. Anderson wasn't involved.
Didn't know the limited edition came with a CD. Might have jumped on that. What's on the CD?
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I read through some of the interviews last night. MM comes across very much like a hired gun that was just given the job of playing along to tracks that were pretty much already complete. Same with JMX. It doesn’t seem like they had too much scope for input, which is what we already knew.
I found James’s interview pretty interesting. He gives some details about his vocal injury, and going through dark times where he felt he was struggling for control of his voice. Definitely worth a read.
I haven’t got to the John or Jordan interviews yet.
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Does anyone have the paperback version already and could post a picture of it? :angel:
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Still on the fence about this. At least Kevin J. Anderson wasn't involved.
Didn't know the limited edition came with a CD. Might have jumped on that. What's on the CD?
No CD, just digital tracks.
6 tracks chronicling The Gift of Music from iPhone recordings to studio guide tracks to early/instrumental mixes and finally the final version.
And 4 more tracks titled Unused Song Idea #1-4.
28 Minutes of music
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Still on the fence about this. At least Kevin J. Anderson wasn't involved.
Didn't know the limited edition came with a CD. Might have jumped on that. What's on the CD?
No CD, just digital tracks.
6 tracks chronicling The Gift of Music from iPhone recordings to studio guide tracks to early/instrumental mixes and finally the final version.
And 4 more tracks titled Unused Song Idea #1-4.
28 Minutes of music
That sounds like some very interesting stuff. I'd love to hear it!
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Still on the fence about this. At least Kevin J. Anderson wasn't involved.
Didn't know the limited edition came with a CD. Might have jumped on that. What's on the CD?
No CD, just digital tracks.
6 tracks chronicling The Gift of Music from iPhone recordings to studio guide tracks to early/instrumental mixes and finally the final version.
And 4 more tracks titled Unused Song Idea #1-4.
28 Minutes of music
I wonder if this will make it onto a future CD release.
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Still on the fence about this. At least Kevin J. Anderson wasn't involved.
Didn't know the limited edition came with a CD. Might have jumped on that. What's on the CD?
No CD, just digital tracks.
6 tracks chronicling The Gift of Music from iPhone recordings to studio guide tracks to early/instrumental mixes and finally the final version.
And 4 more tracks titled Unused Song Idea #1-4.
28 Minutes of music
I wonder if this will make it onto a future CD release.
I doubt it, I'm still waiting for them to use that heavy riff from the drummer auditions in a song and it still hasn't happened :-\ But I guess you never know.
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I bought the book 1 week ago, and I started from the interviews and the rest of the bonus material and it's quite interesting.
It just emerges quite clearly from the interview that MM was a bit pissed with all of The Astonishing stuff (not being involved with the writing, playing always with the click...)
The book itself is enjoyable, even though I usually read other staff...there are some nice insights on the characters.
BTW--I got the chance to listen back to the CD and I really think it's a masterpiece, and I struggle to understand why it was SO divisive..
There are more emotions in A Better Life that in the whole D/T...
But clearly there are way more fans that are just for the heavy side of DT than I imagined.
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BTW--I got the chance to listen back to the CD and I really think it's a masterpiece, and I struggle to understand why it was SO divisive..
Because:
1. Many fans are just metalheads that want nothing to do with softer music.
2. When it was announced TA was going to be a concept album, a lot of people expected another SFAM, when DT were clearly aiming at a completely different direction. Some fans just never understood that.
TA might be their most unique album to date, it was definitely going to be divisive (I love it, btw).