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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: KevShmev on August 27, 2016, 08:14:07 AM

Title: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: KevShmev on August 27, 2016, 08:14:07 AM
Don't ask me why, but listening to either of these bands often makes me want to listen to the other, and they obviously had similar career arcs early on (great stuff throughout the 80s while still being fairly underground; hit it big at the beginning of the 90s with a streamlined, monster release; went a bit experimental in the mid 90s following the success of the mainstream hit).

It's funny, because if you had asked me a week ago, I would have said Queensryche without any hesitation, but after getting reacquainted with a lot of Metallica in the last week, I am not so sure now.  Promised Land is my favorite album by either, but Metallica never released as much shit as 'Ryche has in the last 20 years, and I think Metallica's best songs are arguably better than Queensryche's best songs.  It's pretty close.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: bl5150 on August 27, 2016, 08:27:11 AM
Queensryche
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 27, 2016, 08:29:52 AM
Great observations regarding their career arcs, at least through the mud 90's.

It was great to live through those 80's years. Both bands were real special. And we knew it.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: kingshmegland on August 27, 2016, 08:31:06 AM
QR.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: ronnibran on August 27, 2016, 10:04:19 AM
QR - never been a Metallica fan, while QR were in my top 3 bands all throughout highschool.  I still listen to Promised Land occasionally, but that's about the only album I go back to.  Too much stuff I like better that has come out in the last 10-20 years as my music tastes have changed.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: LudwigVan on August 27, 2016, 11:04:14 AM
I grew up on The Warning and Ride The Lightning, but Metallica is what I mostly listen to now. 

The other cool thing about these 2 bands is that they're both on a bit of an upswing. Ryche seems to be feeling it with the last 2 albums with Todd and Tallica making a bit of a comeback with DM and a much anticipated new album about to come out.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 27, 2016, 11:09:22 AM
QR
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on August 27, 2016, 11:54:40 AM
Metallica for me and it's not even close.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: KevShmev on August 27, 2016, 11:57:34 AM
In the mid 90s or so, both of these bands were among my favorites.

Rush, Floyd, Yes and DT were top 4, but Queensryche was not far behind from 1994-1997 (I probably listened to them about as much as anyone during that time period, except for Rush and DT).  Promised Land remains a top 20 all-time CD for me, and while Empire and Operation: Mindcrime were the albums that got me into them (the hits from Empire and then O:C as a whole), hearing Rage for Order was pretty stunning, since I had heard very little about it, yet I thought it was pretty damn awesome.  And I still do.

I didn't get into Metallica until 1996, right before Load came out, but I am pretty sure I listened to nothing but Metallica for several months straight. I even loved Load to death when it first came out, although a few songs were always skippers for me, and a few since then have been added to the skip list; I still really like or love probably 5-6 songs from it.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jjrock88 on August 27, 2016, 11:58:08 AM
Queensryche for sure.

Both had a great streak of near flawless metal albums, then both just nosedived for various reasons.  But QR resonates with me alot more and O:M is my all time favorite album.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kotowboy on August 27, 2016, 12:00:20 PM
Never knowingly heard Queensryche .
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: axeman90210 on August 27, 2016, 12:02:27 PM
Metallica for me, they're one of my favorite bands and the reason I got into music in the first place. I *really* like Mindcrime, but I've never felt compelled to check out the rest of QR's catalog.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Evermind on August 27, 2016, 12:10:03 PM
Queensryche

Brent got it right as usual.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jjrock88 on August 27, 2016, 12:15:50 PM
Very close race!  This is an interesting match up actually.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kotowboy on August 27, 2016, 12:28:16 PM
Queensryche

Brent got it right as usual.

Nope.

There's no such thing as the wrong taste in music.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: LudwigVan on August 27, 2016, 12:37:19 PM
Great observations regarding their career arcs, at least through the mud 90's.

It was great to live through those 80's years. Both bands were real special. And we knew it.

Umm, you didn't answer the question.  ;)
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Evermind on August 27, 2016, 01:27:53 PM
Queensryche

Brent got it right as usual.

Nope.

There's no such thing as the wrong taste in music.

I'm not getting into this debate, so yeah, whatever suits you. It's all my opinion and all that.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kotowboy on August 27, 2016, 01:32:42 PM
You can't debate fact.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Big Hath on August 27, 2016, 01:33:55 PM
overall, gonna have to go with Metallica on this one.  The run from KEA to the black album is just monstrous.  Queensryche has solid output, but only OM comes close to those albums for me.

However the band I like better RIGHT NOW would be Queensryche without question.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Bertielee on August 27, 2016, 01:38:21 PM
Metallica. Not even close. But I'm not into any now.

B.Lee
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Evermind on August 27, 2016, 01:50:01 PM
You can't debate fact.

Yeah, and the fact is Brent got it right as usual for me as my musical tastes go. I thought I was past the necessity I had to clarify all I write was only my honest opinion, but apparently there is some room for doubts still. Weird.

I've just realized this debate - because this is the debate, as far as I'm concerned - triggers every checkbox I've set for myself regarding the things I won't be dragged into. So, hey, I'll just get out of this thread, plain and simple. Have fun.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: 425 on August 27, 2016, 01:50:31 PM
Metallica for me, they're one of my favorite bands and the reason I got into music in the first place. I *really* like Mindcrime, but I've never felt compelled to check out the rest of QR's catalog.

This, almost exactly. I'm not sure I'd say I "really" like Mindcrime, though I do enjoy it. In any case, I was never interested enough to get another Queensr˙che album.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: KevShmev on August 27, 2016, 02:42:05 PM
You can't debate fact.

Yeah, and the fact is Brent got it right as usual for me as my musical tastes go. I thought I was past the necessity I had to clarify all I write was only my honest opinion, but apparently there is some room for doubts still. Weird.
 

Nah, you're good. Don't let the spoil sports ruin this thread for ya.  :tup :tup
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kotowboy on August 27, 2016, 02:50:53 PM
The RIGHT band is winning :tup :tup ;) ;) 
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Lowdz on August 27, 2016, 03:01:01 PM
Queensryche by a million miles. First four albums are pretty much flawless.

I only ever play MoP, and I'm a recent convert to that.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 27, 2016, 03:09:02 PM
You can't debate fact.

Thanks for keeping the DTF tradition alive.  *points to sig*  :lol
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Adami on August 27, 2016, 03:11:08 PM
It's a hard fact that my opinion is that I like Metallica more.

It's also a hard fact that I can understand the opinions of people who prefer Queensryche, since they also rock(ed).

It's my opinion that these are facts..............wait....
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: MirrorMask on August 27, 2016, 03:20:03 PM
Overall, Metallica, they've always been way closer to my tastes. However I'm not so sure if I would rate any single album from them higher than Operation Mindcrime.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on August 27, 2016, 03:44:21 PM
Queensryche, no contest. Even with how their music has dropped off as of late, it's not as pitiful as Metallica's last few attempts.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: NoseofNicko on August 27, 2016, 05:42:04 PM
Queensryche is a top 25 band. Metallica top 150.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Mosh on August 27, 2016, 07:24:02 PM
That's actually a really good comparison I never really thought of before. Both are innovators in their genre that started off strong and then really switched gears in the 90s, for better or worse depending on who you ask I guess. I think both declined hard after their first few albums though. I'm going to go with Metallica because I find myself going back to their great albums much more than QR.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 27, 2016, 07:42:00 PM

Umm, you didn't answer the question.  ;)

Kill 'Em All vs Reich EP
Ride The Lightning vs Warning
Master Of Puppets vs Rage For Order
And Justice For All vs Operation:Mindcrime TIE
The Black Album vs Empire
Load vs Promised Land


Kill 'Em All
Warning
Justice
O:M
All TAC Top 25 albums of all time!
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Mosh on August 27, 2016, 08:41:41 PM
Kill 'Em All vs Reich EP TIE
Ride The Lightning vs Warning
Master Of Puppets vs Rage For Order
And Justice For All vs Operation:Mindcrime
The Black Album vs Empire

So maybe it's more of a tie for me on second thought. I prefer Death Magnetic to most of what QR has done post Empire.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 27, 2016, 09:18:08 PM
If it weren't for DTF, I wouldn't even have heard of Queensryche. The stuff I've heard from them was listenable, but nothing exciting.
So, Metallica easily.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: PowerSlave on August 28, 2016, 01:10:57 AM
CSB time that has absolutely no bearing on the topic, but I'm feeling inclined to share it anyways.

The second concert that I ever attended was Queensryche (Operation Mindcrime Tour) opening up for Metallica (And Justice for All Tour) at the Ohio Center in Columbus, Ohio. I want to say that it was November-December 1988, but that could be way off.

Anyways, I choose QR, but both of these bands are great.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Zantera on August 28, 2016, 04:05:15 AM
I've only heard Operation Mindcrime from Queensryche but it was incredibly meh, so Metallica hands down.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: wolfking on August 28, 2016, 04:20:04 AM
Queensryche
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 28, 2016, 06:54:32 AM
  I prefer Death Magnetic to most of what QR has done post Empire.

Same here.

I've only heard Operation Mindcrime from Queensryche but it was incredibly meh

 :omg:
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: ? on August 28, 2016, 08:47:17 AM
QR all the way.

I like most of Metallica's classic stuff, but Rage for Order through Promised Land is one of the greatest 4-album runs of all time, and even the worst QR records have more tolerable and decent moments than St. Anger, for example. QR's return to roots has also been far more successful to my ears and not forced like Metallica's.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: nattmorker on August 28, 2016, 08:59:22 AM
Metallica easily, I've never found anything special about QR, I've tried but I can't.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: The King in Crimson on August 28, 2016, 09:10:08 AM
QR

O:M is better than anything Metallica has ever done and likely will ever do and while they lingered at their lowest point far longer than Metallica and released far more weak albums than them, arguably none were as bad as St. Anger.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on August 28, 2016, 09:40:06 AM
I've only heard Operation Mindcrime from Queensryche but it was incredibly meh,

(https://37.media.tumblr.com/db0cb582833134649577cbfa58ef8796/tumblr_n5fxmjxDJg1rvxc9go2_250.gif)
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2016, 09:43:41 AM
Oh man that gif is really getting old now...




Anyway - recommend me a QR album to listen to . Their " classic " if you will. i'll listen to it and report back.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on August 28, 2016, 10:34:37 AM
Oh man that gif is really getting old now...




(https://66.media.tumblr.com/43f43ef68904f48308b7ed1e56a80b7a/tumblr_neuezfkxXZ1rpike2o1_500.gif)

Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2016, 10:36:50 AM
(https://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z302/BAD_WOLF_13/Comment%20Gifs/i%20agree%20-%20i%20like%20this/funny-gif-thumb-up-facebook-comment.gif) (https://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z302/BAD_WOLF_13/Comment%20Gifs/i%20agree%20-%20i%20like%20this/funny-gif-thumb-up-facebook-comment.gif) (https://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z302/BAD_WOLF_13/Comment%20Gifs/i%20agree%20-%20i%20like%20this/funny-gif-thumb-up-facebook-comment.gif) (https://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z302/BAD_WOLF_13/Comment%20Gifs/i%20agree%20-%20i%20like%20this/funny-gif-thumb-up-facebook-comment.gif) (https://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z302/BAD_WOLF_13/Comment%20Gifs/i%20agree%20-%20i%20like%20this/funny-gif-thumb-up-facebook-comment.gif)
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on August 28, 2016, 10:37:57 AM
 :lol

Oh, and listen to Operation: Mindcrime. There is no better Queensryche album.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2016, 10:47:22 AM
:lol

Oh, and listen to Operation: Mindcrime. There is no better Queensryche album.

:angry: Maybe I will...


:angry: MAYBE I WILL.

:) But seriously I will.

:angry: MAYBE.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: KevShmev on August 28, 2016, 11:49:42 AM
Oh, and listen to Operation: Mindcrime. There is no better Queensryche album.

Promised Land is better.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2016, 11:50:41 AM
Oh, and listen to Operation: Mindcrime. There is no better Queensryche album.

Promised Land is better.

:dangerwillrobinson:
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Train of Naught on August 28, 2016, 11:53:47 AM
Oh, and listen to Operation: Mindcrime. There is no better Queensryche album.

Promised Land is better.
:lol
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 28, 2016, 12:00:28 PM
That's not really laughable.  PL is a great album.  Not sure if I like it more than O:MC.  That is their masterpiece album IMO.  But hey, I can see how someone would like PL more.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jjrock88 on August 28, 2016, 12:02:49 PM
I've only heard Operation Mindcrime from Queensryche but it was incredibly meh, so Metallica hands down.

 :omg:
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: KevShmev on August 28, 2016, 12:03:01 PM
They are both pretty damn awesome, so I think it's easy to argue for either.

I could see a strong argument for Rage for Order as well, although it's comfortably in 3rd place for me.

Empire is great as well, but a couple of the deep cuts on the back half of the album are somewhat forgettable.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on August 28, 2016, 12:39:37 PM
Oh, and listen to Operation: Mindcrime. There is no better Queensryche album.

Promised Land is better.

(https://i.imgur.com/SYGwA97.gif)
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: PowerSlave on August 28, 2016, 04:55:59 PM
I think that it's hard to tell someone which QR album to start off with from their "classic era". It depends on that person's tastes in music, because all of those albums are so much different than each other. My personal favorite is The Warning, but I can easily see how anyone else would have a different opinion.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 28, 2016, 05:01:46 PM
  but Rage for Order through Promised Land is one of the greatest 4-album runs of all time,

   PL is a great album.  Not sure if I like it more than O:MC.  That is their masterpiece album IMO.  But hey, I can see how someone would like PL more.

Promised Land is better.







I simply cannot understand the appeal of Promised Land. To me, it's so devoid of anything interesting. After everything they had done up till then, it came off, to me, as so light. I like Damaged. The title track is OK, and Out Of Mind was great live, but definitely was not on the studio version. But that's it. I just cannot fined anything redeemable about it, other than being one of the GREATEST LETDOWNS I have ever experienced from a band.


. My personal favorite is The Warning,
Thank you.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Tomislav95 on August 28, 2016, 05:04:13 PM
Queensryche EP is awesome.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 28, 2016, 05:05:31 PM
Queensryche EP is awesome.

Yes it was, and I believe it was game changing for the genre. QR in the EP/ Warning era was one of the freshest bands in metal at the time.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: LudwigVan on August 28, 2016, 05:05:45 PM
Rage For Order is masterful.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 28, 2016, 05:07:14 PM
Rage For Order is masterful.

It really is. And I did not "get it" at the time. They kind of lost me bit when it came out. Maybe it was the pictures! ;D But it really has aged so wonderfully for me.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: LudwigVan on August 28, 2016, 05:14:55 PM
Yeah I remember you telling me it was a downer for you when it first came out , which is understandable considering the NWOBHM style metal we heard on The Warning (which is great in itself). But RFO took the band to another level. It's truly amazing, how the Pink Floyd influence took hold over the  prog- metal greats like Queensryche and Fates Warning.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: kingshmegland on August 28, 2016, 05:22:37 PM
I loved that QR pushed the boundaries of their music. Seeing them open for Kiss on the Animalize tour.  They blew me away.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 28, 2016, 05:31:36 PM
  which is understandable considering the NWOBHM style metal we heard on The Warning (which is great in itself).

Thinking about this....and while Warning was definitely influenced by the NWOBHM, as was Kill 'Em All, Warning (and KEA) both transformed the NWOBHM into something new and fresh, and both bands set forth two new genres into motion.



I am shocked that Warning gets such little acclaim. It's a direct line between the NWOBHM and Fates Warning.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: LudwigVan on August 28, 2016, 05:46:41 PM
The Warning is amazing. It was the first time I heard metal with lyrics that were full of intrigue, conspiracy and subterfuge.  The lyrics challenged the status quo as much as the music itself did.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 28, 2016, 05:49:42 PM
The Warning is amazing. It was the first time I heard metal with lyrics that were full of intrigue, conspiracy and subterfuge.  The lyrics challenged the status quo as much as the music itself did.

Amen, Brother.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Zoom E on August 28, 2016, 05:54:55 PM
Started listening to both bands in 1983 and they are two of my all-time favourites. It has to be Queensryche for me.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: LudwigVan on August 28, 2016, 06:04:40 PM
The Warning is amazing. It was the first time I heard metal with lyrics that were full of intrigue, conspiracy and subterfuge.  The lyrics challenged the status quo as much as the music itself did.

Edit: It's also interesting that The Warning was released in 1984, considering how the music is so full of Orwellian imagery.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on August 28, 2016, 10:29:24 PM
While Operation: Mindcrime blows most anything Metallica ever did out of the water, (maybe even Puppets), I'd still go for Metallica, simply out of the amount of stellar records they put out.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jammindude on August 28, 2016, 11:24:12 PM
Rage For Order is masterful.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: 425 on August 29, 2016, 01:20:05 AM
I've only heard Operation Mindcrime from Queensryche but it was incredibly meh

 :omg:

I wouldn't necessarily be as negative as Zantera, but I'm not at all shocked that someone thinks it's meh. For its reputation as one of the prog metal albums (and it certainly is; I'm not denying that), a ton of it is mostly just straightforward NWOBHM. Mainly just the concept parts and Suite Sister Mary are not. I was definitely underwhelmed the first time I heard it, and while I've come to enjoy it, I can see someone still having that underwhelmed opinion.

I also think Queensr˙che is mostly going to appeal to people who like that style of metal, while Metallica will appeal to a much broader range of music fans. I like but not love that style of metal, so it makes a fair bit of sense that I like but do not love Operation: Mindcrime.

I see Metallica as one of those standout bands that transcends genre in terms of appeal, while Queensr˙che really doesn't do that in the same way. I'm not surprised to see anyone, really, being a fan of Metallica. I'm also not surprised to see someone like Zantera, who doesn't really seem to be that into the whole 80s style of metal, not be that impressed with O:M. By a similar token, I don't typically like thrash, but I love Metallica. And Rust In Peace, which also has genre-defying appeal in my estimation.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kwyjibo on August 29, 2016, 04:01:35 AM
Queensryche all the way, they had some great records, then some shite ones and a true return to from with the last two. Metallica had some decent ones, but even then, for me, they were always have great half filler and that includes Master Of Puppets (the record, not the song).

I'm an avid Queensryche fan, but only a casual Metallica fan.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: bosk1 on August 29, 2016, 08:31:38 AM
Don't ask me why, but listening to either of these bands often makes me want to listen to the other, and they obviously had similar career arcs early on (great stuff throughout the 80s while still being fairly underground; hit it big at the beginning of the 90s with a streamlined, monster release; went a bit experimental in the mid 90s following the success of the mainstream hit).

It's funny, because if you had asked me a week ago, I would have said Queensryche without any hesitation, but after getting reacquainted with a lot of Metallica in the last week, I am not so sure now.  Promised Land is my favorite album by either, but Metallica never released as much shit as 'Ryche has in the last 20 years, and I think Metallica's best songs are arguably better than Queensryche's best songs.  It's pretty close.

Great observations regarding their career arcs, at least through the mud 90's.

It was great to live through those 80's years. Both bands were real special. And we knew it.

Yeah, I really like both of the above quotes (although I'm sure we would disagree quite a bit if drilling down into the specifics).  I really like both bands, and both had a tremendous influence on me.  But I still easily take Queensryche.  I got into them somewhat late in the game, having discovered them with Mindcrime and not really gotten into them as a huge fan until Empire.  But they were hands-down my favorite band from 1990 through 1999 until DT released scenes.  And aside from the fact that their current lineup seems to be completely mailing it in in terms of fan service, live shows, promoting themselves, etc., the last two albums with Todd are stellar and, IMO, stand up with their original lineup run from the EP through HITNF.  And while this wasn't the case for the last couple of Tate albums, they are right back to being one of those bands where, despite my current level of frustration with them, I will automatically buy anything they put out without having to hear it first.

Metallica, on the other hand, are a band that I respect and appreciate, but won't go out of my way to purchase.  For me personally, RTL, Puppets, AJFA, and the black album are must-haves, but I don't really care to have anything else of theirs in my collection.  I like and can appreciate a lot of the other stuff they have done through the years.  But what I like best about them was done on that spectacular 4 album run.  And other than the handful of odd songs here and there, I just don't really care for any of the other albums very much.  Again, not to take anything away from them, but I'm just not the target audience for their other material.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kotowboy on August 29, 2016, 08:46:06 AM
TIL that the album Master of Puppets by Metallica is " half filler "

:rollin

I consider Master Of Puppets a near flawless album.


Songwise at least - the production could be a bit less raspy.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Art on August 29, 2016, 09:09:46 AM
I am not a big Metallica fan, but i prefer them to QR.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on August 29, 2016, 09:34:17 AM
Metallica

I consider Master Of Puppets a near flawless album.

^this
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 29, 2016, 10:17:38 AM

I simply cannot understand the appeal of Promised Land. To me, it's so devoid of anything interesting. After everything they had done up till then, it came off, to me, as so light. I like Damaged. The title track is OK, and Out Of Mind was great live, but definitely was not on the studio version. But that's it. I just cannot fined anything redeemable about it, other than being one of the GREATEST LETDOWNS I have ever experienced from a band.

I didn't like PL much at first but it grew on me.  It has a strangely obscure greatness to it.  Hard to explain.  Rather polarizing I guess would be the right word to describe it.  You either like it or you don't.  I can understand both sides of the coin.  For me, HITNF was the beginning of the letdown.  I really don't like much of that album at all.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 29, 2016, 10:24:17 AM
Metallica, by 4.5 Astronomical Units.

O:M never did anything for me.  I know its reputation, so I have tried several times through the years to listen again and see if it clicked.

Nothing.

My favorite QR album is Empire.  Right time, right place for me.  I still like it, although I don't see it as a masterpiece or anything.

Meanwhile Metallica is Metallica, warts and all.  No contest.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: ? on August 29, 2016, 01:08:38 PM
I simply cannot understand the appeal of Promised Land.
Promised Land is my favorite QR album because I love the dark and moody vibe, the lyrics are some of their most relatable, and it's aged better than the earlier records. I mean, I love those albums too, but they're more clearly products of their time. In fact, I think those in this thread who have only listened to Mindcrime and found it too 80s/NWOBHM-sounding might find something to enjoy on PL - if you're reading this, go check it out and thank me later! :biggrin:
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 29, 2016, 01:18:26 PM


I see Metallica as one of those standout bands that transcends genre in terms of appeal, while Queensr˙che really doesn't do that in the same way. I'm not surprised to see anyone, really, being a fan of Metallica. I'm also not surprised to see someone like Zantera, who doesn't really seem to be that into the whole 80s style of metal, not be that impressed with O:M. By a similar token, I don't typically like thrash, but I love Metallica. And Rust In Peace, which also has genre-defying appeal in my estimation.

All of this makes total sense.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 29, 2016, 01:27:02 PM

I simply cannot understand the appeal of Promised Land. To me, it's so devoid of anything interesting. After everything they had done up till then, it came off, to me, as so light. I like Damaged. The title track is OK, and Out Of Mind was great live, but definitely was not on the studio version. But that's it. I just cannot fined anything redeemable about it, other than being one of the GREATEST LETDOWNS I have ever experienced from a band.

I didn't like PL much at first but it grew on me.  It has a strangely obscure greatness to it.  Hard to explain.  Rather polarizing I guess would be the right word to describe it.  You either like it or you don't.  I can understand both sides of the coin.  For me, HITNF was the beginning of the letdown.  I really don't like much of that album at all.

While I have always like Empire, it actually worried me in terms of the direction. And when the lead single off of PL was Bridge, I couldn't even be bothered. Felt like Silent Lucidity Pt II, an instant sellout. I did not buy the album.

It's funny. I saw the Promised Land tour and it was amazing. It was an outdoor show in July, and had the perfect ambiance. I recorded the show. I listened to it quite a bit. Out Of Mind came off so awesome live.

Disconnected and Lady Jane have to be two of their worst songs up until that point. I have always thought I Am I was a hot mess. I like the way it ends with One More Time and Someone Else, but cracks in Tate's voice had begun to appear at this point.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: KevShmev on August 29, 2016, 02:18:51 PM

I simply cannot understand the appeal of Promised Land. To me, it's so devoid of anything interesting. After everything they had done up till then, it came off, to me, as so light. I like Damaged. The title track is OK, and Out Of Mind was great live, but definitely was not on the studio version. But that's it. I just cannot fined anything redeemable about it, other than being one of the GREATEST LETDOWNS I have ever experienced from a band.


I thought that the first few times I listened to it, but something about kept making me want to listen more, and then it was the light bulb went on one day, making it go from disappointing to "holy crap, this is incredible."  It being so different to their other stuff was part of it, but I think it's also not something that's an immediate grabber.  Some great art takes time.  :)
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jjrock88 on August 29, 2016, 02:26:18 PM
I also thought WTF the first time I heard Promised Land.  But like others have mentioned, there was something about it that caused me to revisit it and then the light bulb went off. 

Now I absolutely love it; the remastered edition is even better with the inclusion of "The Real World".  That song just fits in perfectly and is one of my favorite QR tunes from the 90's.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 29, 2016, 02:30:37 PM

I simply cannot understand the appeal of Promised Land. To me, it's so devoid of anything interesting. After everything they had done up till then, it came off, to me, as so light. I like Damaged. The title track is OK, and Out Of Mind was great live, but definitely was not on the studio version. But that's it. I just cannot fined anything redeemable about it, other than being one of the GREATEST LETDOWNS I have ever experienced from a band.


I thought that the first few times I listened to it, but something about kept making me want to listen more, and then it was the light bulb went on one day, making it go from disappointing to "holy crap, this is incredible."  It being so different to their other stuff was part of it, but I think it's also not something that's an immediate grabber.  Some great art takes time.  :)

It's been over 20 years! I don't have that much time! ;D
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: kingshmegland on August 29, 2016, 02:50:34 PM
Tim's problem with it is it need more metal!!!

Amirite?!
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 29, 2016, 02:57:31 PM
Tim's problem with it is it need more metal!!!

Amirite?!

YES!!!!!

Nah, that's not really it. I just don't think a number of songs are very good.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: KevShmev on August 29, 2016, 03:04:15 PM
It hit me the other day that a lot of their 80s stuff really isn't metal; it's more hard rock than anything.  I think it was Tate's vocals, that were reminiscent of Priest and Maiden, that made them more metal than they really were.  Heck, listen to Rage for Order and focus on just the music and tell me with a straight face most of that is metal; it's really not.

Heck, the riff in Damaged is as metal as anything they've ever done, but Tate's vocals weren't as howling and off the charts by then.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 29, 2016, 03:23:33 PM
It hit me the other day that a lot of their 80s stuff really isn't metal; it's more hard rock than anything.  I think it was Tate's vocals, that were reminiscent of Priest and Maiden, that made them more metal than they really were.  Heck, listen to Rage for Order and focus on just the music and tell me with a straight face most of that is metal; it's really not.

Heck, the riff in Damaged is as metal as anything they've ever done, but Tate's vocals weren't as howling and off the charts by then.

Agreed. Damaged is awesome and is as good of a riff as they have in their catalog. I think it's fair to call Warning a metal album, especially for something released in 1984. But RFO is definitely not a metal album, and it really threw me for a loop when it came out.
O:M is more hard rock than metal.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: kingshmegland on August 29, 2016, 03:24:26 PM
They definitely had metal roots but expanded on it. I always gravitate to those types of bands.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jjrock88 on August 29, 2016, 03:27:04 PM
Whatever Rage for Order is, it still kicks major ass!!
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on August 30, 2016, 05:24:18 AM
I never saw the appeal of Rage for Order and Warning. They have a couple of good songs but most of it is filler. Gonna Get Close To You is quite possibly their worst song ever. However, they are still better than anything Metallica ever did post Black Album.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2016, 05:34:11 AM
Snob, at what point did you "discover" Queensryche?
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on August 30, 2016, 05:36:28 AM
It was a year or so after Mindcrime came out. I was in high school and someone said that I would love it, since I was heavily listening to Savatage's Gutter Ballet at the time.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2016, 06:11:11 AM
Oh, OK. Geez, you're a lot younger than I thought you were. No offense  :)

Actually, I find it strange that a fan of that era Savatage would not have an appreciation for Warning.


When I think of Queensryche, it is the EP/Warning that comes to mind. It was such a fresh take on metal at the time. It's a shame that it is not more heralded as such.
Roads To Madness is still by far my favorite QR song.

I find it's flow very similar to O:M. With O:M, it comes out of the shoot and you are into the second half of the album before you can take a breath. With Warning, that happens right after Take Hold, with the three song run of Deliverance/No Sanctuary/NM 156 being the highlight for me. Both albums take a slight step back in their second halves, and then each end strongly with a great tune.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Nekov on August 30, 2016, 06:18:11 AM
Metallica. I find Queensryche pretty meh
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kwyjibo on August 30, 2016, 06:24:33 AM
I never saw the appeal of Rage for Order and Warning. They have a couple of good songs but most of it is filler. Gonna Get Close To You is quite possibly their worst song ever. However, they are still better than anything Metallica ever did post Black Album.

Rage For Order is the most progressive or experimental record QR has ever done, and I love it. And Gonna Get Close To You is just stellar (although it's a cover). Tate just nails the vocals, sounding creepy and slightly insane, like someone stalking you.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on August 30, 2016, 06:29:02 AM
Oh, OK. Geez, you're a lot younger than I thought you were. No offense  :)

Actually, I find it strange that a fan of that era Savatage would not have an appreciation for Warning.


When I think of Queensryche, it is the EP/Warning that comes to mind. It was such a fresh take on metal at the time. It's a shame that it is not more heralded as such.
Roads To Madness is still by far my favorite QR song.

I find it's flow very similar to O:M. With O:M, it comes out of the shoot and you are into the second half of the album before you can take a breath. With Warning, that happens right after Take Hold, with the three song run of Deliverance/No Sanctuary/NM 156 being the highlight for me. Both albums take a slight step back in their second halves, and then each end strongly with a great tune.

Yes, I'm a fresh fish in the 40 club.  ;) I've been listening to metal since I'm 8, though, and grew up around older metal heads that lived on my street. 

I actually like the EP more than RFO and Warning. As far as Savatage, I love Gutter Ballet and like Hall of the Mountain King, but Fight for the Rock and Power of the Night are less than desirable. Oddly enough, I like the rawness of Dungeons and Sirens.

Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to what makes me like/dislike something. It's more internal for me, being an empath, so you can present me with two exceedingly similar albums and if I feel something different about one of them, that is how I will perceive it.

I never saw the appeal of Rage for Order and Warning. They have a couple of good songs but most of it is filler. Gonna Get Close To You is quite possibly their worst song ever. However, they are still better than anything Metallica ever did post Black Album.

Rage For Order is the most progressive or experimental record QR has ever done,


Actually, I think The Promised Land fits that description far more accurately.

Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2016, 06:43:16 AM
 
I never saw the appeal of Rage for Order and Warning. They have a couple of good songs but most of it is filler. Gonna Get Close To You is quite possibly their worst song ever. However, they are still better than anything Metallica ever did post Black Album.

Rage For Order is the most progressive or experimental record QR has ever done,


Actually, I think The Promised Land fits that description far more accurately.

I find RFO more experimental than PL. RFO was really quite different. I always felt that the run of Empire/PL/HITNF was musical "shrinkage" for QR, though I still like Empire a lot.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on August 30, 2016, 07:28:51 AM
 
I never saw the appeal of Rage for Order and Warning. They have a couple of good songs but most of it is filler. Gonna Get Close To You is quite possibly their worst song ever. However, they are still better than anything Metallica ever did post Black Album.

Rage For Order is the most progressive or experimental record QR has ever done,


Actually, I think The Promised Land fits that description far more accurately.

I find RFO more experimental than PL. RFO was really quite different. I always felt that the run of Empire/PL/HITNF was musical "shrinkage" for QR, though I still like Empire a lot.

I think they started going downhill after Empire, too. I'm going to give RFO another listening. It has been so many years since I checked it out. Who knows? Maybe since my taste in music has changed since then I'll actually find it more appealing.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: kingshmegland on August 30, 2016, 07:38:46 AM
The downhill for QR was when DeGarmo left the band.  The creativity went out with him.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2016, 07:44:16 AM
I wonder how much of a part of HITNF he really was. Seems half hearted if you ask me.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kwyjibo on August 30, 2016, 07:50:15 AM
Since Tate wrote 81% percent of QR that leaves up to 19% to DeGarmo.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: kingshmegland on August 30, 2016, 07:51:54 AM
I wonder how much of a part of HITNF he really was. Seems half hearted if you ask me.

I remember the interviews and it was both his and Tate's idea.  They wanted a different sonic to the album. Put HITNF against the Tate albums and it's WAAAAYYY better than those.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kwyjibo on August 30, 2016, 07:54:12 AM
Everything except maybe St. Anger is way better than those Tate albums, so that's not really hard to accomplish.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jammindude on August 30, 2016, 09:21:44 AM
Rage For Order is the first REAL QR album.   That album is just amazing.  I still like it better than even O:MC, and I still think it's QR's masterpiece. 

Find a metal album that tried anything that's in Rage For Order before Rage For Order did it....I dare you. 

Promised Land is "Rage For Order with a budget", and it's still really excellent from that standpoint, but you could never recapture the magic of that near perfect album.   

Rage For Order is the best album released by either of those bands.   
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Cruithne on August 30, 2016, 09:28:47 AM
If Tate had quit after Empire and they'd called it a day, Queensryche would hands down be my favourite band of all time.

If the albums Q2k, Mindcrime II and American Soldier didn't exist and DeGarmo and Tate had quit at the same time, meaning we got Promised Land, HiTNF and Tribe, and then they'd called it a day, Queensryche would probably still be my favourite band of all time (as it is Rush are, whilst Devin Townsend is my favourite artist).

The two most recent efforts are much better than the Tateryche albums (which I tend towards including Q2k as part of) but LaTorre doesn't have DeGarmo or Tate's way with lyrics and they miss DeGarmo's gift with melody and texture so much.

As for Metallica, at one time I could play an awful, awful lot of their first 5 albums on the guitar - so much fun to play along to - and yet I'm not sure how much I ever actually just listened to their first 3 records. After those 5 it's been a mixed bag. Load/Reload were ok, St. Anger was laughably bad in every way and Death Magnetic sounded like a band doing a good imitation of early Metallica who'd employed a half-deaf producer.

The drag factor of Dedicated To Chaos ought to tip my vote towards Metallica, but... St. Anger.

So, my vote goes to Queensryche.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: mikeyd23 on August 30, 2016, 11:07:30 AM
Metallica. I find Queensryche pretty meh

This was my exact thought reading the OP.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on August 30, 2016, 11:43:19 AM
If Tate had quit after Empire and they'd called it a day, Queensryche would hands down be my favourite band of all time.

If the albums Q2k, Mindcrime II and American Soldier didn't exist and DeGarmo and Tate had quit at the same time, meaning we got Promised Land, HiTNF and Tribe, and then they'd called it a day, Queensryche would probably still be my favourite band of all time (as it is Rush are, whilst Devin Townsend is my favourite artist).

The two most recent efforts are much better than the Tateryche albums (which I tend towards including Q2k as part of) but LaTorre doesn't have DeGarmo or Tate's way with lyrics and they miss DeGarmo's gift with melody and texture so much.

As for Metallica, at one time I could play an awful, awful lot of their first 5 albums on the guitar - so much fun to play along to - and yet I'm not sure how much I ever actually just listened to their first 3 records. After those 5 it's been a mixed bag. Load/Reload were ok, St. Anger was laughably bad in every way and Death Magnetic sounded like a band doing a good imitation of early Metallica who'd employed a half-deaf producer.

The drag factor of Dedicated To Chaos ought to tip my vote towards Metallica, but... St. Anger.

So, my vote goes to Queensryche.

Nice analysis. More importantly, I love the avatar.  :tup
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2016, 03:36:52 PM
I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I feel that American Soldier is a more than competent album.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: bosk1 on August 30, 2016, 03:38:43 PM
I agree.  If not for Tate's weak, throaty vocal performance, I would consider it a very solid album with only a few minor flaws here and there.  Probably the best post-DeGarmo album they did with Tate.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2016, 03:45:48 PM
The result may have been weak, but at least I feel he put some effort into it. I find it a focused album for him and the band.
Unfortunately for Tate, he will always be compared his past glories.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jjrock88 on August 30, 2016, 03:57:21 PM
American Soldier has some pretty good tunes; the two standouts to me were "At 30000 ft" and "Dead Mans Words".  The vocals were tough, plus the last three songs on the album slowing things down to a snails pace didn't help matters.  "Home Again" was a struggle to get through.

But "Unafraid" and "Man Down" were also good tunes.  It was a step in the right direction, but my interest at the time in QR was hanging by a thread and I just lost interest.  I won't even begin to get into DTC.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2016, 04:01:43 PM
  I won't even begin to get into DTC.

I have not heard a single note of DTC.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jjrock88 on August 30, 2016, 04:02:51 PM
  I won't even begin to get into DTC.

I have not heard a single note of DTC.

Well I will just say this about it.  It is my all time most disliked album by bands that I like.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: bosk1 on August 30, 2016, 04:05:05 PM
I find it a focused album for him and the band.
Uh...even though the band didn't write it or play on it?  :lol


But that aside, as far as Tate, it's not an issue for me of comparing him to "past glories."  It's that he is singing it from the neck up and straining on mid-range notes.  It sounds like he didn't bother to warm up or try multiple takes to get it right.  The entire things sounds phoned it.  It's not that I'm expecting him to sound like he did on The Warning.  I just expect him to sound like an actual singer and not croak out a half-baked performance.  Honestly, if he sounded like he did halfway decent warm-up exercises, and if Slater had had the guts to say, "Geoff, that take isn't up to par.  Let's punch in and re-do that line" or "Let's give your voice a rest and hit it again in a couple of hours" in the places that needed it, the album could be 10 times better.  And, for the record, I don't fault Slater too much for not doing that.  I realize that he was a hired gun, and being hired by the Tates, he was in a difficult position.  I'm just saying that's what it would have taken for Tate to sound decent.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2016, 04:23:12 PM
The band didn't play on it?

(https://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ac/ac1b2e05b9b1d1c122aac3f986d3ad83c3cdc43443b8dcb884967bbd5f177d34.jpg)
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: bosk1 on August 30, 2016, 04:37:26 PM
I think Stone did, but the rest (or at least, most of it) was session musicians brought in by Tate/Slater.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: kingshmegland on August 30, 2016, 04:39:48 PM
And I would still take HITNF over it.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jjrock88 on August 30, 2016, 04:47:04 PM
And I would still take HITNF over it.

Just listened to HITNF the other day.  Thats a prime example of less is more; take off 4 or 5 songs and that album is much better.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: NunoTenniscourt on August 30, 2016, 04:53:56 PM
I find it a focused album for him and the band.
Uh...even though the band didn't write it or play on it?  :lol


But that aside, as far as Tate, it's not an issue for me of comparing him to "past glories."  It's that he is singing it from the neck up and straining on mid-range notes.  It sounds like he didn't bother to warm up or try multiple takes to get it right.  The entire things sounds phoned it.  It's not that I'm expecting him to sound like he did on The Warning.  I just expect him to sound like an actual singer and not croak out a half-baked performance.  Honestly, if he sounded like he did halfway decent warm-up exercises, and if Slater had had the guts to say, "Geoff, that take isn't up to par.  Let's punch in and re-do that line" or "Let's give your voice a rest and hit it again in a couple of hours" in the places that needed it, the album could be 10 times better.  And, for the record, I don't fault Slater too much for not doing that.  I realize that he was a hired gun, and being hired by the Tates, he was in a difficult position.  I'm just saying that's what it would have taken for Tate to sound decent.

I don't know if he still does today, but the fact that he smoked didn't help matters for him vocally, either.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: kingshmegland on August 30, 2016, 04:55:22 PM
I remember getting that CD and Lemon Parade by Tonic at the same time. I played the hell out of both CD's.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: KevShmev on August 30, 2016, 05:37:19 PM
Rage For Order is the first REAL QR album.   That album is just amazing.  I still like it better than even O:MC, and I still think it's QR's masterpiece. 

Find a metal album that tried anything that's in Rage For Order before Rage For Order did it....I dare you. 

Promised Land is "Rage For Order with a budget", and it's still really excellent from that standpoint, but you could never recapture the magic of that near perfect album.   

Rage For Order is the best album released by either of those bands.

Honestly, having listened to both in the last few days, I might prefer Rage for Order now, too; there's something about it that is just so damn good.  Not that O:C isn't great, because it is, but Rage for Order just has that little extra something. :coolio
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Kwyjibo on August 31, 2016, 01:47:58 AM
Although Metallica seems to win the vote, Queensryche clearly dominates this discussion.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 31, 2016, 03:25:26 AM
I think Stone did, but the rest (or at least, most of it) was session musicians brought in by Tate/Slater.

Is this stated on the liner notes? I only have a digital copy.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Setlist Scotty on August 31, 2016, 06:18:06 AM
I think Stone did, but the rest (or at least, most of it) was session musicians brought in by Tate/Slater.

Is this stated on the liner notes? I only have a digital copy.
Of course not. The Taters would have loved for everyone (including the rest of the band) to believe that OMII, AS and DtC were fully QR albums just as everything up thru Tribe was (in terms of writing and performance). But while the rest of the guys in the band may have recorded their parts for these albums, to varying degrees, the Taters and Slater brought in other musicians (for whatever reason) that re-recorded the bulk of the music. A lot of this was brought out in the statements made by the band members when they were going to court after firing Tater and his wife.

Honestly, I think AS is probably the album that has the most of the band, or at least Michael Wilton on it. For OMII and DtC, he has very little presence.

Regarding those albums, I would also have to say that AS is probably the most honest of the post-Tribe albums that they did too. There's some good material on it, altho it could've been better. One thing a friend of mine said was that there's almost no variation in the tempo from song to song, and I tend to agree.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 31, 2016, 02:38:52 PM
Rage For Order is the first REAL QR album.   That album is just amazing.  I still like it better than even O:MC, and I still think it's QR's masterpiece. 

How is Warning not the first REAL QR album? What did you think of it when it came out? Were you not into it?
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jammindude on August 31, 2016, 03:07:49 PM
Rage For Order is the first REAL QR album.   That album is just amazing.  I still like it better than even O:MC, and I still think it's QR's masterpiece. 

How is Warning not the first REAL QR album? What did you think of it when it came out? Were you not into it?

It was an idea conveyed in the official linear notes from the RFO re-release that I happen to agree with. 

The Warning is a really great album, and in many ways it is grossly under-appreciated and overlooked album.   But for all the strong songs and ideas, it just didn't quite succeed in what the band was really setting out to accomplish.    It fell short of the higher ambitions the band had.    RFO was where it all came together perfectly. 
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 31, 2016, 03:19:13 PM
I always felt that Warning was ambitious, and I thought they achieved it. I guess they didn't think so?

That reminds me of when Pyromania came out, Joe Elliot said in an interview that High n Dry was so rushed, that Pyromania felt like their REAL 2nd album.
Of course, I was Like WTF?? I love HnD!!
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 31, 2016, 03:22:10 PM
Yeah, RFO was where it started coming together but they still were not very popular at that point.  When Mindcrime came out (which was even better imo) they still weren't being taken very seriously.  Then Empire was what really launched them.  They were able fill arenas and play Mindcrime in its entirety on the Empire tour.  One of the best shows I've ever seen.

BTW, The Warning is awesome and the EP is really good too.  I have The Prophecy bonus track version which was recorded during TW sessions.  Great song.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 31, 2016, 03:28:16 PM
I wished they played theaters for the Mindcrime tour. But they got a couple of great opening slots for Def Leppard (Hysteria) and Metallica (Justice). I saw them 4 times!

For Def Leppard, they were In The Round, and I thought they were so great. Seeing Scott's gigantic set in the middle of it all was cool. I actually was far less impressed when they played the end stage on the Metallica tour, and I mostly remember Tate being a douche, with his tank top and sun glasses.

And yes Steve, the Empire tour was awesome.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: bosk1 on August 31, 2016, 03:32:36 PM
I always felt that Warning was ambitious, and I thought they achieved it. I guess they didn't think so?

Well, I know they weren't happy with the label meddling, changing the track order, etc.  But beyond that, I would guess that any such statement is more Geoff Tate revisionist history than an overall sentiment from the band as a whole. 
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 31, 2016, 03:39:55 PM
I remember vaguely something about the tracklisting. I actually think it's perfect the way it is.

And I think RFO has a lot of Warning in it.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jjrock88 on August 31, 2016, 05:52:12 PM
Nobody can deny the coolness of NM156!  What a fantastic song.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on August 31, 2016, 06:10:01 PM
Nobody can deny the coolness of NM156!  What a fantastic song.

Absolutely! And that solo section is awesome.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Mosh on August 31, 2016, 06:15:19 PM
I love The Warning. Far superior album to RFO.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on August 31, 2016, 07:03:04 PM
I'm listening to RFO right now. I forgot Walk in the Shadows is on this.  :lol  This was always a good song.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jammindude on August 31, 2016, 07:22:26 PM
Yeah, RFO was where it started coming together but they still were not very popular at that point.  When Mindcrime came out (which was even better imo) they still weren't being taken very seriously.  Then Empire was what really launched them.  They were able fill arenas and play Mindcrime in its entirety on the Empire tour.  One of the best shows I've ever seen.

BTW, The Warning is awesome and the EP is really good too.  I have The Prophecy bonus track version which was recorded during TW sessions.  Great song.

Actually, that version was recorded during the RFO sessions.

There is a much more raw version recorded during The Warning sessions, but it's much harder to find. It was only released on The Decline of Western Civilization Part 2 soundtrack, and to the best of my knowledge, it has never been on any official QR release.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: KevShmev on August 31, 2016, 08:44:16 PM
I don't put too much stock into it when a band says, "This was our first real album," or any other silliness like that.  Heck, Neil Peart once said that Moving Pictures should have been Rush's first album :eek :eek :eek, so chew on that one for a while. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: jammindude on August 31, 2016, 10:24:36 PM
I don't put too much stock into it when a band says, "This was our first real album," or any other silliness like that.  Heck, Neil Peart once said that Moving Pictures should have been Rush's first album :eek :eek :eek, so chew on that one for a while. :lol :lol

I remember that.   And I ***KINDA*** get where he's coming from, but it would have made more sense if he had said Permanent Waves.  That is where the huge shift in sound came into play.    And PeW and MP are extremely similar albums.   MP is practically PeW Part 2.      But I do kinda get what he was getting at. 
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Mosh on August 31, 2016, 11:21:58 PM
Yea I get that too. MP really laid the foundation for the band going forward. They probably see the prior albums as experiments.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on September 01, 2016, 05:26:32 AM
That logic gets tossed out the window as the three albums prior to Permanent Waves are better than anything after Moving Pictures.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on September 01, 2016, 05:57:17 AM
That logic gets tossed out the window as the three albums prior to Permanent Waves are better than anything after Moving Pictures.

Thank you.

But I suppose Peart may look at it as some awkward growing years for the band, while I look at it as THE definitive period of the band and I consider it their Golden Age.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on September 01, 2016, 05:59:58 AM
I concur. You get that a lot from musicians though. They'll have some kind of revelation and sometimes dismiss prior releases.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: bosk1 on September 01, 2016, 08:01:36 AM
I don't put too much stock into it when a band says, "This was our first real album," or any other silliness like that.  Heck, Neil Peart once said that Moving Pictures should have been Rush's first album :eek :eek :eek, so chew on that one for a while. :lol :lol
Eh, I get what you are saying.  But I think in a lot of cases, it isn't the band trying to disown certain albums as much as just being shorthand for something along the lines of, "This album is the first one I really felt satisfied with as a musician and feel like it really captures what we had been trying to do as a band since day 1." 
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on September 01, 2016, 10:52:34 AM
How did a thread asking if Metallica or Queensryche are better lead to a discussion about Rush?
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Dublagent66 on September 01, 2016, 11:26:37 AM
Yeah, RFO was where it started coming together but they still were not very popular at that point.  When Mindcrime came out (which was even better imo) they still weren't being taken very seriously.  Then Empire was what really launched them.  They were able fill arenas and play Mindcrime in its entirety on the Empire tour.  One of the best shows I've ever seen.

BTW, The Warning is awesome and the EP is really good too.  I have The Prophecy bonus track version which was recorded during TW sessions.  Great song.

Actually, that version was recorded during the RFO sessions.

There is a much more raw version recorded during The Warning sessions, but it's much harder to find. It was only released on The Decline of Western Civilization Part 2 soundtrack, and to the best of my knowledge, it has never been on any official QR release.

Yeah, so it was a demo for The Warning and then they actually recorded a better version during the RFO sessions?  That must be the version I have on the CD release of the EP.  The original cassette release didn't have it.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: bosk1 on September 01, 2016, 12:12:06 PM
^Correct.  It was only included on the reissue.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on September 01, 2016, 12:31:32 PM
How did a thread asking if Metallica or Queensryche are better lead to a discussion about Rush?

Is this your first day?  ;)
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on September 01, 2016, 12:56:58 PM
How did a thread asking if Metallica or Queensryche are better lead to a discussion about Rush?

Is this your first day?  ;)

Welcome to Dream Theater Forums: Where all roads lead to Rush.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Prog Snob on September 01, 2016, 01:00:45 PM
No. No. No.

Where all roads lead away from the OP...  :lol
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: WildRanger on April 04, 2019, 04:11:34 AM
I've only heard Operation Mindcrime from Queensryche but it was incredibly meh

 :omg:

I wouldn't necessarily be as negative as Zantera, but I'm not at all shocked that someone thinks it's meh. For its reputation as one of the prog metal albums (and it certainly is; I'm not denying that), a ton of it is mostly just straightforward NWOBHM. Mainly just the concept parts and Suite Sister Mary are not. I was definitely underwhelmed the first time I heard it, and while I've come to enjoy it, I can see someone still having that underwhelmed opinion.

I also think Queensr˙che is mostly going to appeal to people who like that style of metal, while Metallica will appeal to a much broader range of music fans. I like but not love that style of metal, so it makes a fair bit of sense that I like but do not love Operation: Mindcrime.

I see Metallica as one of those standout bands that transcends genre in terms of appeal, while Queensr˙che really doesn't do that in the same way. I'm not surprised to see anyone, really, being a fan of Metallica. I'm also not surprised to see someone like Zantera, who doesn't really seem to be that into the whole 80s style of metal, not be that impressed with O:M. By a similar token, I don't typically like thrash, but I love Metallica. And Rust In Peace, which also has genre-defying appeal in my estimation.

Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime is one of records that defines the 80's melodic heavy metal. I would say it's even more melodic than any 80's Iron Maiden or Judas Priest album.  If some people dislike O:M, I suppose they are not fans of that style of metal. On the other hand, Metallica's AJFA is a one of records that defines aggressive and unmelodic 80's metal, it's something totally opposite to O:M.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Adami on April 04, 2019, 06:10:25 AM
AJFA is quite melodic.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: TAC on April 04, 2019, 06:15:55 AM
I've only heard Operation Mindcrime from Queensryche but it was incredibly meh

 :omg:

I wouldn't necessarily be as negative as Zantera, but I'm not at all shocked that someone thinks it's meh. For its reputation as one of the prog metal albums (and it certainly is; I'm not denying that), a ton of it is mostly just straightforward NWOBHM. Mainly just the concept parts and Suite Sister Mary are not. I was definitely underwhelmed the first time I heard it, and while I've come to enjoy it, I can see someone still having that underwhelmed opinion.

I also think Queensr˙che is mostly going to appeal to people who like that style of metal, while Metallica will appeal to a much broader range of music fans. I like but not love that style of metal, so it makes a fair bit of sense that I like but do not love Operation: Mindcrime.

I see Metallica as one of those standout bands that transcends genre in terms of appeal, while Queensr˙che really doesn't do that in the same way. I'm not surprised to see anyone, really, being a fan of Metallica. I'm also not surprised to see someone like Zantera, who doesn't really seem to be that into the whole 80s style of metal, not be that impressed with O:M. By a similar token, I don't typically like thrash, but I love Metallica. And Rust In Peace, which also has genre-defying appeal in my estimation.

Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime is one of records that defines the 80's melodic heavy metal. I would say it's even more melodic than any 80's Iron Maiden or Judas Priest album.  If some people dislike O:M, I suppose they are not fans of that style of metal. On the other hand, Metallica's AJFA is a one of records that defines aggressive and unmelodic 80's metal, it's something totally opposite to O:M.

I don't consider O:M a PROG metal album at all. It's just a hard rock album. There's nothing really prog about it.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Ruba on April 04, 2019, 06:23:21 AM
Well, both have really high highs and some low points, but on the average Metallica has been more consistent. From 80s to 1995 they're pretty much neck and neck, maybe I'll slightly prefer Queensr˙che, but then Metallica had Loads which I like, QR had HITNF which has some great songs but is inconsistent and then Chris left and they've never really recovered from that.

AJFA is quite melodic.
True. It has some sick guitar harmonies as well. If somebody calls it unmelodic, I'm directing them straight towards To Live Is To Die.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Samsara on April 04, 2019, 09:37:29 AM
Queensryche, by a mile. I love Metallica's early stuff, but they fell off a cliff for me, stylistically, with Load and moving forward. Queensryche did the same, as the original lineup stuff was all gold up UNTIL HITNF, and then that was a little spotty to say the least. But I think QR's post-DeGarmo catalog is way better as a whole (again, for me, personally) in comparison to Metallica's post-Black album catalog. So this one is an easy one.

The one advantage I do think I'd give to Metallica is that they have three all-time classic records (Puppets, Justice, Black album), whereas Queensryche arguably has only two (Mindcrime and Empire). And again "classic," is subjective. For example, I think Promised Land is one of the band's best albums, but not everyone agrees.

So, Queensryche, by a mile.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: Stadler on April 04, 2019, 10:21:44 AM
Personal preference:  Queensryche
Objective, cultural impact:  Metallica
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: cramx3 on April 04, 2019, 12:22:01 PM
Metallica for me and it's not even close.
Title: Re: Metallica vs Queensryche
Post by: pg1067 on April 04, 2019, 01:16:32 PM
Hmmm....

This is all based on Metallica through the Black Album and QR through Promised Land.

The best album either of them released was Operation: Mindcrime.

My gut wants to put Master and Lightning next, but there are songs on both of those albums that I don't really care for ("Fight Fire with Fire," "Escape," "Thing" and "Leper Messiah").  On the other hand, there's only one song on The Warning that I don't care for ("Before the Storm"), so maybe the next tier is

2. The Warning
3. Master of Puppets
4. Ride the Lightning

AJFA probably comes next, and then Rage for Order, followed by the QR EP and Kill 'Em All.

Empire comes next (5/11 skippable songs), followed by the Black Album (only 3-4 songs worth listening to).

Dead last is Promised Land, which is a generally bad album with two good songs ("I Am I" and "Damaged").

I think that puts QR on top by a hair.