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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Nic35 on July 25, 2016, 09:26:26 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-boKk8uhmcY
I can't hold them
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All I see is DT and MP.
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Oh yeah thats the old drummer.
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I didn't understand the purpose of the topic.
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Is Steak your last name?
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Oh yeah thats the best drummer.
fixt.
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Oh yeah thats the jest drummer.
fixt.
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I didn't understand the purpose of the topic.
I miss the punch and groove that MP brought to the band
I miss the sound of the band that made me fall in love with music. They sound so flat and boring now with Mangini
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Don't expect a whole bunch of 'OMG I AGREE WITH YOU!' because, even though some do genuinely miss MP's place in the band (which is fine), most of us don't think they sound flat and boring with Mangini.
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I didn't understand the purpose of the topic.
I miss the punch and groove that MP brought to the band
I miss the sound of the band that made me fall in love with music. They sound so flat and boring now with Mangini
The reason that DT is boring as hell now has nothing to do with Mangini.
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The reason that DT is boring as hell now has nothing to do with Mangini.
It has to do with the lack of MP. :lol
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I didn't understand the purpose of the topic.
I miss the punch and groove that MP brought to the band
I miss the sound of the band that made me fall in love with music. They sound so flat and boring now with Mangini
The reason that DT is boring as hell now has nothing to do with Mangini.
But the departure of MP has certainly a lot to do with the fact that they are boring.
They had the perfect balance between groove and incredible technique. IMO that's why Portnoy made their music so special. Now that balance is gone.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-boKk8uhmcY
I can't hold them
Chosen gives me more feels than Wither.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-boKk8uhmcY
I can't hold them
Chosen gives me more feels than Wither.
Dude it's because the video shows the band together and it reminds me of when MP was there, not because of the song
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-boKk8uhmcY
I can't hold them
Chosen gives me more feels than Wither.
Dude it's because the video shows the band together and it reminds me of when MP was there, not because of the song
I misunderstood since the only explanation you gave for posting this was:
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I didn't understand the purpose of the topic.
I miss the punch and groove that MP brought to the band
I miss the sound of the band that made me fall in love with music. They sound so flat and boring now with Mangini
Which implies the music, not the band's togetherness. That's fine though, I certainly miss some things of the band from MP's time. (Rotating setlists, a better fan experience overall) but I don't see any issues with the band's togetherness with Mangini, they still seem like a good group of guys that get along together and to me, still make amazing music.
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I didn't understand the purpose of the topic.
I miss the punch and groove that MP brought to the band
I miss the sound of the band that made me fall in love with music. They sound so flat and boring now with Mangini
I agree with you. I also miss that.
But why didn't you say that when you created the topic? You just posted a video. No discussion, debate, question or subject to talk about was presented. Just saying.. it is not my intention to bother you.
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Is Steak your last name?
George Carlin reference.
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Oh yeah thats the old drummer.
At 0:44 I think he's writing a press release.
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(https://i.imgur.com/KNyANGf.png)
Hey Mikael, can I join Opeth? We can leave right now!
(https://i.imgur.com/tuaAkfT.png)
OK OK Mike make the best of it. You're stuck for now.
(https://i.imgur.com/gmB4XXW.png)
Hey Man, do you know Mikael? Can you get him to change his mind? He'll know what I'm talking about.
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Take it as what it is, a joke.
Open Letter to Mike Portnoy.
Dear Mike,
It's time to choose whether the story of Dream Theater ends here or whether it will still continue an undetermined period of time. We've been working with this creation for twenty-five years and we are not ready to give up yet. Dream Theater is a way of life, something to live for, and we're certain we can't let it go.
Equally certain is the fact that we cannot go on with you any longer. During the last year something sad happened, which I've been going over in my head every single day, morning and night. Your attitude and behavior don't go with Dream Theater anymore. There are characteristics I would never have believed to see in my old dear friend. People who don't talk with each other for a year do not belong in the same band.
We are involved in an industry where the business-side of things is a necessary evil and something to worry about all the time. We are also a band which has always done music from the heart, because of friendship and the music itself. The mental satisfaction should always be more important than money! Dream Theater is a band, it's an emotion. To you, unfortunately, business, money, and things that have nothing to do with those emotions have become much more important. You feel that you have sacrificed yourself and your musical career for Dream Theater, rather than thinking what it has given to you. This attitude was clearly shown to me in the two things you said to us back in NY: ”This is burning me, can we take a hiatus?” and ”Remember, John, that I could leave this band at any time, giving you only one day's warning in advance”. I can't simply write any more songs for you to drum.
You have said yourself that you are the ”great frontman” of Dream Theater. Now that supremacy ends and we will continue Dream Theater with a new, open drummer. We're sure this is an equally big relief to you as it is for us. We have all been feeling bad long enough.
You told us that no matter what, the next DT album will be your last one. However, the rest of us want to continue as long as the fire burns. So there's no sense in doing that next album with you, either. The four of us have been going over this situation countless times and we have realized that this is the thing we want to do in life. It's all we can do.
In interviews I've mentioned that if Mike leaves, that would be the end of the band. I understand that people will think this way. Dream Theater is, however, a scenery of my soul and I'm not ready to let go because of one person. A person who wants to focus his creativity to somewhere else, a person whose values don't match mine.
We were never bothered by the fact that you exaggerated your credit in writing/arranging songs, you never in 25 years asked our thoughts before going to the studio. Not the fact that while on tour you always wanted to force us to play different songs, not worrying about the stress Jordan had to go through to change his sounds every night. Not the fact that you pretended to be an undisputable front image of the band. We accepted and felt ok about everything except selfishness, underestimating the fans, and wanting to take a break. It was agreed by the five of us that Dream Theater would be the priority in everything that we do during 2009-2010. Still so many things were more important to you. The ultimate example being an already sold-out show, which you wanted to cancel because you needed to rehearse with Avenged Sevenfold, hold meetings with other bands and go to the movies. I couldn't think of a worse way of being selfish and dismissing our fans.
Dream Theater is a way of life and a job with many obligations. To each other and to the fans. With you we can't take care of those duties anymore.
Deep within we don't know what drove us to this point. Somehow Avenged Sevenfold has changed you from the cool guy you were into a diva, who doesn't think or act the way he used to. You are too sure of your irreplaceableness and status.
It's obvious that you blame your stress and misery on us four. And you think we don't respect or listen to you. Believe us; We have always had the uppermost respect towards you as a wonderful drummer and as a friend. And very often during the past couple of years the plans were made according to your decisions only. You were always the only one who wanted more money and credit from the shows. This ”compensation and more credit from everything” –attitude is the fact that we are most disappointed of!
We wish that from now on you will listen to your heart instead of your OCD. Do not wither yourself.
This decision is not something we are especially proud of but you gave us no choice. The gap between us is too wide. And the decision is made by us four unanimously. We are beyond the point where things could be settled by talking.
All the best for your life and career,
John Petrucci
James LaBrie, John Myung, Jordan Rudess
Thanks Tuomas for helping us find the words
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What the fuck is this shit?
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What the fuck is this shit?
It's the open letter Nightwish put online (and gave in person) to their former singer Tarja as a means of booting her. Albeit, this one is a bit modified.
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:clap:
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What the fuck is this shit?
It's the open letter Nightwish put online (and gave in person) to their former singer Tarja as a means of booting her. Albeit, this one is a bit modified.
It's the modified part that concerns me. smh
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It's too long to read.
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What the fuck is this shit?
My thoughts exactly.
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What the fuck is this shit?
It's the open letter Nightwish put online (and gave in person) to their former singer Tarja as a means of booting her. Albeit, this one is a bit modified.
Ok, now I gotta go read that. This is kind of bizarre but....eh well...
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Well this thread took a different turn :lol
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What the fuck is this shit?
THIS IS THE BEST HEF IMPERSONATION I HAVE EVER READ!!! YOU WIN THE INTERNET! :lol
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I like it. Very interesting, and though it may be a joke, shows a different perspective from things. Who knows if a part of it is actually what some of the guys in DT think?
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Open Letter to Mike Portnoy.\
As both a Nightwish and Dream Theater fan, I get the joke aspect of it. Those that do not have that background may not. And even so, equating the two situations could easily be construed as taking an unfair shot at MP. I'll allow it to stay, but please make sure the discussion stays civil and doesn't take a wrong turn going forward.
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Nightwish treats their former members far worse than Portnoy or DT have ever treated each other.
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Nightwish treats their former members far worse than Portnoy or DT have ever treated each other.
Treats or treated? I agree they treated the past singers pretty poorly and worse than DT/MP, but is there any continuing drama? I haven't noticed if there is, but that may be the difference as MP continues to bring things up in public which creates drama even if unintended.
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Not sure, I don't follow Nightwish that intently. You're right though, it seems like there's a ton of drama initially and then it fades away. It keeps coming back with MP. But the difference is MP was a big part of DT and was in the band for 25 years. I wouldn't expect him to get over that easily. The last singer for Nightwish (before Floor) was only in the band for a few years.
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Not sure, I don't follow Nightwish that intently. You're right though, it seems like there's a ton of drama initially and then it fades away. It keeps coming back with MP. But the difference is MP was a big part of DT and was in the band for 25 years. I wouldn't expect him to get over that easily. The last singer for Nightwish (before Floor) was only in the band for a few years.
Yes, but the "open letter" was in connection with Tarja, who was Nightwish's singer from day 1 and was with the band for 10 years and was a HUGE part of what was considered to be the band's signature, genre-defining sound. From that perspective, you could say the similarities were VERY similar. But that is about where the similarities end. In the case of Nightwish, no matter which side one might attempt to assign blame to, that situation had truly become toxic by all accounts. Tarja and her husband wanted nothing to do with the other members, and the other members wanted nothing to do with them, and management was stoking the fire and sowing discord between the two camps WHILE SHE WAS STILL IN THE BAND. That was not DT's situation with Portnoy at all, from all accounts.
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I didn't understand the purpose of the topic.
I miss the punch and groove that MP brought to the band
I miss the sound of the band that made me fall in love with music. They sound so flat and boring now with Mangini
The reason that DT is boring as hell now has nothing to do with Mangini.
But the departure of MP has certainly a lot to do with the fact that they are boring.
They had the perfect balance between groove and incredible technique. IMO that's why Portnoy made their music so special. Now that balance is gone.
Possibly, and I get what you're saying. MP had a lot of influence in the direction of the music and that's obviously gone. However, I like Mangini a lot, but unfortunately I don't like the music anymore. ADTOE was pretty good for the most part. DT12 wasn't that good. TA an absolute disaster. Who knows what's next? I'm actually afraid to find out.
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The Astonishing an absolute disaster :rollin :rollin :rollin :lolpalm: :lolpalm: :lolpalm:
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Yeah, opinions differ I guess.
For me, I can certainly tell things are different, that much is clear. I'd definitely say there are some things I miss that MP brought to the table, but I also have enjoyed the last three albums, especially ADTOE and TA, so while the difference is clear, I'm not going to complain about it. I think DT are making great music at this point in their career.
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I love how someone posted a song that made them feel something about a point in time with the band and it almost immediately got a sarcastic MP-negative tone. I really don't understand why that's necessary.
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I love how someone posted a song that made them feel something about a point in time with the band and it almost immediately got a sarcastic MP-negative tone. I really don't understand why that's necessary.
Especially when the original posters clear intent was to demonstrate he is currently suffering from writer's block.
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I love how someone posted a song that made them feel something about a point in time with the band and it almost immediately got a sarcastic MP-negative tone. I really don't understand why that's necessary.
Misery loves company
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A lot of people who treat pre-split DT as this golden era that ended the microsecond MP left, seem to forget that a lot of elements people criticize in current DT were already present in albums like SC and BCSL. SC was a brickwalled record with campy lyrics for sure.
Whether you like current DT or not, they've been on that trajectory since ToT I would say.
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A lot of people who treat pre-split DT as this golden era that ended the microsecond MP left, seem to forget that a lot of elements people criticize in current DT were already present in albums like SC and BCSL. SC was a brickwalled record with campy lyrics for sure.
Whether you like current DT or not, they've been on that trajectory since ToT I would say.
I disagree. I thought SC was a very solid album, except maybe for Prophets of War. BCSL maybe was a let down, but it was nonetheless better than the three following albums. It's clear to me that MP brought the heavy, bad-ass sound and groove to the band and that is the aspect of their music that I miss.
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A lot of people who treat pre-split DT as this golden era that ended the microsecond MP left, seem to forget that a lot of elements people criticize in current DT were already present in albums like SC and BCSL. SC was a brickwalled record with campy lyrics for sure.
Whether you like current DT or not, they've been on that trajectory since ToT I would say.
Yes, I would agree since it is my opinion that they hit the peak with SDOIT. It has been downhill ever since. However, those follow on albums were still very good and closer to what I think best represents DT's style than what they are doing now.
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A lot of people who treat pre-split DT as this golden era that ended the microsecond MP left, seem to forget that a lot of elements people criticize in current DT were already present in albums like SC and BCSL. SC was a brickwalled record with campy lyrics for sure.
Whether you like current DT or not, they've been on that trajectory since ToT I would say.
I disagree. I thought SC was a very solid album, except maybe for Prophets of War. BCSL maybe was a let down, but it was nonetheless better than the three following albums. It's clear to me that MP brought the heavy, bad-ass sound and groove to the band and that is the aspect of their music that I miss.
Oh, the heavyness is still there. Just weird mixes.
SC and BCSL had some of the cheesiest lyrics ever. Sorry, but a powerful voice singing "Inventory!""Analysis!" isn't good. :lol
Rumbo is right on this, and I honestly like Prophets of War a lot.
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DT has gotten less interesting because they've stopped progressing. Every album up to Train of Thought, they did something new and fresh with every release. Octavarium and onwards, there really hasn't been much new or fresh. The Astonishing is the only album since that I'd say that really tried to do anything different, but that album is just not especially interesting musically anyways, the only different thing about it is the structure.
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DT has gotten less interesting because they've stopped progressing. Every album up to Train of Thought, they did something new and fresh with every release. Octavarium and onwards, there really hasn't been much new or fresh. The Astonishing is the only album since that I'd say that really tried to do anything different, but that album is just not especially interesting musically anyways, the only different thing about it is the structure.
While this isn't fully true, I don't see how would it be a reason to make it non-interesting.
There isn't much to go either, unless they went power.
You already did a concept, a double with 40min song, a metal focused album. FII didn't really bring anything new to the table and Awake was just darker than I&W but WDADU, for me, has an even darker tone.
Where to go?
They intended to make Systematic Chaos a relaxed and fun album, and people didn't like it. So they went back to seriousness with BC&SL, and they didn't like it ether. They did a standard prog album (ADTOE) and it got better. They could have easily repeated the formula they had with ADTOE but they didn't, instead, they wanted to TRY making shorter songs, and that didn't turn out well for "most" of the people, apparently.
And all of this is considering they gave a damn about people reviews, which I doubt so.
Now, that TA isn't musically interesting is strictly your opinion, but saying that they haven't been changing their stuff isn't very true.
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You can't make everyone happy. However, I think the majority of the fan base is happy with the state of the band.
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Yeah, opinions differ I guess.
For me, I can certainly tell things are different, that much is clear. I'd definitely say there are some things I miss that MP brought to the table, but I also have enjoyed the last three albums, especially ADTOE and TA, so while the difference is clear, I'm not going to complain about it. I think DT are making great music at this point in their career.
Well said, I agree with pretty much every word. :tup
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DT has gotten less interesting because they've stopped progressing. Every album up to Train of Thought, they did something new and fresh with every release. Octavarium and onwards, there really hasn't been much new or fresh. The Astonishing is the only album since that I'd say that really tried to do anything different, but that album is just not especially interesting musically anyways, the only different thing about it is the structure.
While this isn't fully true, I don't see how would it be a reason to make it non-interesting.
There isn't much to go either, unless they went power.
You already did a concept, a double with 40min song, a metal focused album. FII didn't really bring anything new to the table and Awake was just darker than I&W but WDADU, for me, has an even darker tone.
Where to go?
They intended to make Systematic Chaos a relaxed and fun album, and people didn't like it. So they went back to seriousness with BC&SL, and they didn't like it ether. They did a standard prog album (ADTOE) and it got better. They could have easily repeated the formula they had with ADTOE but they didn't, instead, they wanted to TRY making shorter songs, and that didn't turn out well for "most" of the people, apparently.
And all of this is considering they gave a damn about people reviews, which I doubt so.
Now, that TA isn't musically interesting is strictly your opinion, but saying that they haven't been changing their stuff isn't very true.
I kinda agree with your overall point. But one thing I take issue with is you implying that for each thing they tried, the majority of fans didn't like it for one reason or another. That isn't really true. The majority have liked almost everything they have done, which is evidenced in part by the fact that none of their albums have overall negative reviews and that they have continued to fill venues when touring on those albums. It is usually a minority that dislikes a particular album, and a smaller, very vocal minority that goes out of their way to express it. The only question is how big that minority is. In the case of, for example, SC or BCSL, I think you would probably find that it is a bigger minority than for other albums. But at the end of the day, it is still a minority.
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DT has gotten less interesting because they've stopped progressing. Every album up to Train of Thought, they did something new and fresh with every release. Octavarium and onwards, there really hasn't been much new or fresh. The Astonishing is the only album since that I'd say that really tried to do anything different, but that album is just not especially interesting musically anyways, the only different thing about it is the structure.
Isn't this more about your perspective of the music than anything else?
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It's about how your tastes have changed. But also a bit about the band's as well.
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The last three DT albums haven't aged well for me, but The Astonishing is the only one where I noticed that reception wasn't great right away. I do think the majority of fans still like it, but it feels like their most divisive yet. On Rateyourmusic, which is a pretty well-trafficked site, it only has a 2.7/5 despite having 800 votes. On Amazon (which is generally higher), it has only 3.5 stars out of 400 reviews. Both these scores are pretty low compared to what DT usually get on those sites.
Someone unrelated question: I feel mostly on DT's side with the MP breakup, though I would like to see MP play with the band again. As far as Queensrych go, clearly the band were in the right, and Tate is a total headcase. What about Nightwish, though? That letter makes Tarja sound like a terrible person.
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It's about how your tastes have changed. But also a bit about the band's as well.
For sure. I guess I asked about fan perspective because to me, they did do "new and fresh" things on the last three records.
ADTOE had different vocal layering and electronic sound samples that hadn't been around in DT previously.
DT12 had an epic that dropped out in the middle for a full-on orchestral break.
TA is a prog-rock opera, obviously something new.
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The last three DT albums haven't aged well for me, but The Astonishing is the only one where I noticed that reception wasn't great right away. I do think the majority of fans still like it, but it feels like their most divisive yet. On Rateyourmusic, which is a pretty well-trafficked site, it only has a 2.7/5 despite having 800 votes. On Amazon (which is generally higher), it has only 3.5 stars out of 400 reviews. Both these scores are pretty low compared to what DT usually get on those sites.
Someone unrelated question: I feel mostly on DT's side with the MP breakup, though I would like to see MP play with the band again. As far as Queensrych go, clearly the band were in the right, and Tate is a total headcase. What about Nightwish, though? That letter makes Tarja sound like a terrible person.
I tho we had all agreed on RTYM being an unreliable review source.
If RTYM was the total truth, DT is a terrible band with mediocre to average at best albums.
As for Nightwish, there are a lot of conspiracy theories about it. We can't really know. Maybe she did indeed do and say all the things the letter says, and she didn't realize how severe they were, in which case the band was right.
But there's also sayings about Thuomas's ego playing a hand on it.
Anette's departure remains a mistery, as she and the band have totally different versions of the story.
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The last three DT albums haven't aged well for me, but The Astonishing is the only one where I noticed that reception wasn't great right away. I do think the majority of fans still like it, but it feels like their most divisive yet. On Rateyourmusic, which is a pretty well-trafficked site, it only has a 2.7/5 despite having 800 votes. On Amazon (which is generally higher), it has only 3.5 stars out of 400 reviews. Both these scores are pretty low compared to what DT usually get on those sites.
As pointed out, I think all reviews, but especially those at RYM, need to be taken with a grain of salt. But that said, I think I agree with you. TA is most definitely a very divisive album. No question about it.
Someone unrelated question: I feel mostly on DT's side with the MP breakup, though I would like to see MP play with the band again.
You know, I've kinda felt this way from the beginning: I'm not on either "side" about the breakup, because I don't think there really are sides on that issue. They were at sort of an impasse in that each "side" wanted different things that were not compatible. Mike was the one who voiced that he was leaving, but when you step back from it, I think it is best viewed as a mutual decision. The band was going forward no matter what. They didn't say Mike needed to leave. But if he couldn't go forward with the next album as scheduled, they were going forward without him. So he voluntarily stepped aside. It just is what it is. I don't see that there are "sides" to that issue.
That said, in terms of what happened afterward, I think Mike acted inappropriately and continues to do so. And while I understand him feeling the way he does, the problem is how he has handled himself in the public eye. We don't and can't know all the behind-the-scenes stuff, so I don't take a side on that. But in terms of what has been done in the public eye, Mike is clearly in the wrong IMO.
As far as Queensrych go, clearly the band were in the right, and Tate is a total headcase.
Clearly.
What about Nightwish, though? That letter makes Tarja sound like a terrible person.
It has been a LONG time since I read through all that stuff. But as I recall from the statement she and her husband put out, I don't think they denied most of the facts. My general recollection is that they just had a different spin on those facts. What I took away from it all after reading both sides is that there were basically four separate "entities" in the conflict: Tarja, Marcelo (her husband), the rest of the band, and management. It seems as though all four parties were stoking the fire and contributing to the division. I don't think any should be off the hook for what happened. The situation seems like it had become so toxic that I don't know how they could possibly have continued on together. And Tarja had already said she was going to leave as of the next album anyway, so all the band ultimately did was cut her loose one album cycle early. But given how toxic the relationship had already become, I don't see how they could have done another tour together anyway. What I will say is that, even though I remained a fan after the split, I think the band publishing an "open letter" and handling the split the way they did was really tacky and in poor taste. But again, as to the entire situation, it looked to me like there was plenty of blame to go around on all four sides.
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A lot of people who treat pre-split DT as this golden era that ended the microsecond MP left, seem to forget that a lot of elements people criticize in current DT were already present in albums like SC and BCSL. SC was a brickwalled record with campy lyrics for sure.
Whether you like current DT or not, they've been on that trajectory since ToT I would say.
I get what you mean, but as serious SDOIT -> BCSL lover, I disagree... a bit.
I have no problem with MP being gone (though I sure miss the "extra" stuff, the rotating setlists, the official bootlegs etc. - there's something about Octavarium in particular that gives this feeling that has not been felt since, IMHO) and I really like MM, both his technique and his personality (as far as I can tell) and ADTOE is in my Top 5 for sure, since I love pretty much all the songs there.
But there's something rather...iffy about DT12 and TA, I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's as if something's missing. I'm not sure what, but though I really like and enjoy both records, I kind of get this feeling that they "missed" me in a way, while aiming for their target. The problems are different for both records, but now I feel more then ever there has been a certain change in approach and some people might connect it with the lack of MP, though I'm personally convinced that's not the case.
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Very interesting stuff. I had no idea things had gotten so toxic with Nightwish, but I have seen at least one other statement from the band that seemed to be in poor taste, and it wasn't regarding Tarja at all.
As for RYM. I use the site and like it a lot, so I'm biased, but I don't think it's really particularly unfair to DT. RYM scores are just low on the whole. If I see an album that has a 3-3.5 on RYM, I assume it's a very good album. If I see anything above that, I assume I'm looking at something that is considered to be transcendent.
Most the DT albums have score in the low to mid 3's, which is all within what I'd consider the "good to very good" range. The only albums above 3.5 are Scenes, Six Degrees, Images, and Awake, and the only below 3.0 is the Astonishing. Second lowest is WDADU, at 3.03.
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But there's also sayings about Thuomas's ego playing a hand on it.
This for sure. Not saying anything from the letter aren't true, they likely were, but mixed in with Tuomas' ego, it was just a disaster. I'm sure his ego played a role with Annette as well although that's just speculation. Hell everything I just said is speculation :lol
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But there's also sayings about Thuomas's ego playing a hand on it.
This for sure. Not saying anything from the letter aren't true, they likely were, but mixed in with Tuomas' ego, it was just a disaster. I'm sure his ego played a role with Annette as well although that's just speculation. Hell everything I just said is speculation :lol
Well, I think making a married woman sing lyrics about how you have a stalkerish obsession with her (Wish I Had An Angel) is sufficient proof that Tuomas' ego (among other things) is off center.
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Well, I think making a married woman sing lyrics about how you have a stalkerish obsession with her (Wish I Had An Angel) is sufficient proof that Tuomas' ego (among other things) is off center.
Sir, you just won my own personal absolutely meaningless "post of the month" award :rollin
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:lol touche
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Saying TA is musically uninteresting is hilarious. It has the most varied and creative song structures of any of their albums.
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Saying TA is musically uninteresting is hilarious. It has the most varied and creative song structures of any of their albums.
Plus it has styles they have never done before.
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Saying TA is musically uninteresting is hilarious. It has the most varied and creative song structures of any of their albums.
I agree that TA is musically interesting. I disagree that it has the most varied and creative song structures of their albums. Shorter? Sure.
But a lot of those songs blur together for me. I can (if I go back and find them) point to like at least 5 or more songs that end almost identically. Also quite a lot of the songs have those half tempo wailing vocal over power chord sections that also tend to blur together.
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Saying TA is musically uninteresting is hilarious. It has the most varied and creative song structures of any of their albums.
I agree that TA is musically interesting. I disagree that it has the most varied and creative song structures of their albums. Shorter? Sure.
But a lot of those songs blur together for me. I can (if I go back and find them) point to like at least 5 or more songs that end almost identically. Also quite a lot of the songs have those have tempo wailing vocal over power chord sections that also tend to blur together.
Yeah, a lot of parts blur together to me. And while many of their more recent longer songs have used common structures stretched out, their older albums have more varied structures imo.
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And speaking of Nightwish.
Portnoy should start a band with Tarja and other kicked/leftoverdisagreement people.
Any thoughts on filling the other spots? lol
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And speaking of Nightwish.
Portnoy should start a band with Tarja and other kicked/leftoverdisagreement people.
Any thoughts on filling the other spots? lol
Michael Anthony on bass
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DS on keys.
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And speaking of Nightwish.
Portnoy should start a band with Tarja and other kicked/leftoverdisagreement people.
Any thoughts on filling the other spots? lol
Dave Mustaine on guitar.
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And speaking of Nightwish.
Portnoy should start a band with Tarja and other kicked/leftoverdisagreement people.
Any thoughts on filling the other spots? lol
Dave Mustaine on guitar.
Ew
You could have an Ayreon type album if you include all of Ynwgie's ex singers. :lol
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And speaking of Nightwish.
Portnoy should start a band with Tarja and other kicked/leftoverdisagreement people.
Any thoughts on filling the other spots? lol
Dave Mustaine on guitar.
Ew
You could have an Ayreon type album if you include all of Ynwgie's ex singers. :lol
I was kind of joking with Mustaine. He's a good rhythm player who has written some great riffs but his solos are beyond terrible.
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Except that Mustaine's fame peak came after he was kicked from Metallica, unlike Tarja and MP, whose peaks were with NW and DT respectively
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And speaking of Nightwish.
Portnoy should start a band with Tarja and other kicked/leftoverdisagreement people.
Any thoughts on filling the other spots? lol
Dave Mustaine on guitar.
Ew
You could have an Ayreon type album if you include all of Ynwgie's ex singers. :lol
I was kind of joking with Mustaine. He's a good rhythm player who has written some great riffs but his solos are beyond terrible.
You nailed it on the head. Some great riffs with horrible solos.
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Except that Mustaine's fame peak came after he was kicked from Metallica, unlike Tarja and MP, whose peaks were with NW and DT respectively
His peak came from Megadeth (Peace Sells through Countdown and beyond)
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Yea, the only reason we remember Mustaine is because he went on to form another influential metal band. Otherwise he would just be the Pete Best of Metallica.
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And when did I say otherwise?
Mustaine can't go into that band.
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I was kind of joking with Mustaine. He's a good rhythm player who has written some great riffs but his solos are beyond terrible.
Some of his solos on Dystopia are actually really good. Also, let's not forget how good he was before his hand injury. Both his riffing and soloing on an album like Rust in Peace are very high quality.
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I was kind of joking with Mustaine. He's a good rhythm player who has written some great riffs but his solos are beyond terrible.
Some of his solos on Dystopia are actually really good. Also, let's not forget how good he was before his hand injury. Both his riffing and soloing on an album like Rust in Peace are very high quality.
Agreed. Not sure why he is suddenly not a good soloist in the minds of some. ??? And before somebody links to the Cemetery Gates solo to try to prove the point, one bad solo (if you consider that one "bad") does not make him a bad soloist across the board.
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That solo is bad, very very very bad. But it's an isolated situation, maybe he was excited or whatever and decided to smash his way through whathever his fingers could reach.
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I was kind of joking with Mustaine. He's a good rhythm player who has written some great riffs but his solos are beyond terrible.
Some of his solos on Dystopia are actually really good. Also, let's not forget how good he was before his hand injury. Both his riffing and soloing on an album like Rust in Peace are very high quality.
Agreed. Not sure why he is suddenly not a good soloist in the minds of some. ??? And before somebody links to the Cemetery Gates solo to try to prove the point, one bad solo (if you consider that one "bad") does not make him a bad soloist across the board.
Yes, the Cemetery Gates solo always comes to mind. That's not the only thing that sways my opinion though. A lot of the live solos of his that I've come across seem sloppy. He's worse than Hammett live and that's saying a lot.
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I was kind of joking with Mustaine. He's a good rhythm player who has written some great riffs but his solos are beyond terrible.
Some of his solos on Dystopia are actually really good. Also, let's not forget how good he was before his hand injury. Both his riffing and soloing on an album like Rust in Peace are very high quality.
Agreed. Not sure why he is suddenly not a good soloist in the minds of some. ??? And before somebody links to the Cemetery Gates solo to try to prove the point, one bad solo (if you consider that one "bad") does not make him a bad soloist across the board.
Yes, the Cemetery Gates solo always comes to mind. That's not the only thing that sways my opinion though. A lot of the live solos of his that I've come across seem sloppy. He's worse than Hammett live and that's saying a lot.
His appearance at the Metallica 30th anniversary shows is what made me fall out of love with his playing. During the fourth show, Metallica brought Dave Mustaine out to play some stuff from Kill 'Em All. Kirk respectfully let him take all of the leads and play them as they were originally written (classy move btw and the final part in Dave and Metallica burying the hatchet) and Mustaine's subsequent performance showed the world that Metallica made the right decision when they replaced him with Hammett back in 1983. The solos had no sense of melodic flow. It was just a mass of notes and if it wasn't for the fact that he was abiding by a key signature, it would have been just as bad as Slayer. Hearing those solos in comparison to what Kirk played on record (and even in comparison to how he plays them live) was an illusion shattering moment.
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Saying TA is musically uninteresting is hilarious. It has the most varied and creative song structures of any of their albums.
I agree that TA is musically interesting. I disagree that it has the most varied and creative song structures of their albums. Shorter? Sure.
But a lot of those songs blur together for me. I can (if I go back and find them) point to like at least 5 or more songs that end almost identically. Also quite a lot of the songs have those have tempo wailing vocal over power chord sections that also tend to blur together.
Yeah, a lot of parts blur together to me. And while many of their more recent longer songs have used common structures stretched out, their older albums have more varied structures imo.
Eh, up til TA most of their songs followed the old verse chorus verse chorus instrumental verse chorus format. They threw a grenade into the structures on TA and I hope they have another one on hand for DT14.
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I feel ADTOE should've went like this:
OTBoA
BMUBMD
BITS
TITL
OUTCRY
LNF
FFH
BTS
BAI
It flows way better.
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?
I didn't understand the purpose of the topic.
I miss the punch and groove that MP brought to the band
I miss the sound of the band that made me fall in love with music. They sound so flat and boring now with Mangini
i agrees with u
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I feel ADTOE should've went like this:
OTBoA
BMUBMD
BITS
TITL
OUTCRY
LNF
FFH
BTS
BAI
It flows way better.
Switch BMUBMD and TitL and you have almost the exact same flow as IaW.
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I feel ADTOE should've went like this:
OTBoA
BMUBMD
BITS
TITL
OUTCRY
LNF
FFH
BTS
BAI
It flows way better.
Switch BMUBMD and TitL and you have almost the exact same flow as IaW.
Haha that is pretty funny. Honestly didn't even think of that when I made that order.
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As for RYM. I use the site and like it a lot, so I'm biased, but I don't think it's really particularly unfair to DT.
Both Sputnik and RYM order the other DT albums exactly the same way DTF does: IAW, SFAM and Awake on top, a lot of midrange albums, and WDADU at the bottom.
Both sites rank TA below WDADU. You would need to employ some kind of online conspiracy theory to explain why suddenly all the DT haters came out of the woodwork to downvote TA.
Much more likely, this is DTF, a Dream Theater fan forum, so TA has a much more positive reception than the overall public had.
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Boy, this thread escalated quickly.
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I just listened to the Cemetery Gates solo for the first time. It isn't great, but it's fine up until the end. Sounds like he tried to pull a chromatically ascending style lick out of a Megadeth song and it didn't work. That or he lost where he was at on the fretboard and had to stumble to try to get back into a vaguely matching key. It's happened to us all.
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Of all the songs to indicate that DT used to be less boring with MP than they are now, Wither? Or anything from BCSL really...but Wither? ???
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Wither is a great song. Maybe you didn't get the memo.
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I don't really care for it. I mean, there's nothing wrong with it. But it just doesn't move me at all.
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I think Wither is the best song on BC&SL.
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Despite its campiness, TCOT is my favorite song on BCSL.
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Despite its campiness, TCOT is my favorite song on BCSL.
The lyrics just kill it for me.
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Occupational hazard of being a DT fan.
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Occupational hazard of being a DT fan.
Pretty much. I prefer the cheese over JP crossing into faithy religious territory, however. Listening to Neal Morse and man is he talented but now I'm thankful for how little JP actually does that stuff.
And TCOT is amazing.
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Despite its campiness, TCOT is my favorite song on BCSL.
The lyrics just kill it for me.
Lyrics and music kill it for me. I like the intro a bit, I like the swoll section but everything in between is meh and sounds like filler. I like the music over the big build up after the swolls, but the vocals just ruin that for me too, then it just goes into epic DT by numbers territory. I end up liking less of this song than most of their shorter songs.
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They had the perfect balance between groove and incredible technique. IMO that's why Portnoy made their music so special. Now that balance is gone.
I respect Jordan Rudess a ton, and his composition skills and technique are out of this world, but I really liked the Moore and even the Sherinian keyboard eras better. Neither were as hyper-technical, but they added more groove. I really love Sherinian's jazzy fills on Lines in the Sand. And Moore's vocal leads and overall atmosphere.
I really don't feel like there's a ton of difference between Portnoy and Mangini though. I honestly think Mangini is a little bit better.
But I don't get emotional about it. It's like comparing apples and oranges, and I simply prefer oranges. I don't think think any album this band has put out is bad, except maybe SC. :biggrin: