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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Another_Won on July 01, 2016, 12:16:53 PM
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This came up in another thread. If I were to rank all the studio albums, the one at the bottom of my list is just meh, but not bad. It got me thinking, how many people actually think there are unlistenable albums. I know there are some but I was curious how widespread that opinion is.
If you voted "Yes" then which one(s)?
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Well.....not really, I guess.
I never listen to WDADU, but I'm not sure I would say it's unlistenable (like, for example, Rush's Vapor Trails).
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Same here. I never listen to WDADU, because of the production and the vocals. Not really unlistenable, but if I have to "force" myself to listen to something, it might as well be, because I'm never going to listen to it.
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I voted yes because of WDADU. Yeah, it's not unlistenable, but it's pretty bad overall as far as I'm concerned.
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I voted a big fan NO. WDADU would be the only possible contender, but that still has some real good songs on it.
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WDADU is an enjoyable listen, but I wouldn't go out of my way for it. SC on the other hand is the only album that feels like a chore to listen to and I struggle to get through the whole thing.
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Well.....not really, I guess.
I never listen to WDADU, but I'm not sure I would say it's unlistenable (like, for example, Rush's Vapor Trails).
What's weird is I don't listen to WDADU but I still do listen to Vapor Trails. BTW not to side track this thread have you heard the remaster Hef?
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Nope
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Well.....not really, I guess.
I never listen to WDADU, but I'm not sure I would say it's unlistenable (like, for example, Rush's Vapor Trails).
What's weird is I don't listen to WDADU but I still do listen to Vapor Trails. BTW not to side track this thread have you heard the remaster Hef?
No, but I heard it's better.
Of course, it would have to be lol
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I voted a big fan NO. WDADU would be the only possible contender, but that still has some real good songs on it.
This pretty much sums it up for me. And thankfully, we have WDADRU, which highlights that there are indeed some really good songs that just weren't represented on the original album as well as they could have been. But "bad" or "unlistenable?" No.
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I voted a big fan NO. WDADU would be the only possible contender, but that still has some real good songs on it.
This pretty much sums it up for me. And thankfully, we have WDADRU, which highlights that there are indeed some really good songs that just weren't represented on the original album as well as they could have been. But "bad" or "unlistenable?" No.
Exactly. I always thought it was the poor recording of the album. Plus the vocals didn't really fit.
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Absolutely not, no. I wish people would get it into their heads that there is no such thing as a bad album; they're just albums that you personally don't like. Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
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Absolutely not, no. I wish people would get it into their heads that there is no such thing as a bad album; they're just albums that you personally don't like. Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
I really just meant from a personal point of view. Music is so subjective one person can call an album a masterpiece and the next call it bad.
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Yes, but WDADU is the only one I would consider truly "bad"
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No. Even the worst album, Systematic Chaos, is still mostly good.
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Like an entire album? No.
But most of an album? Sure. Outside of 1-2 songs, I never listen to anything from SC or DT12.
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Yes.
DT12 is pretty much unlistenable for me. I haven't finished an entire song from that album in years because it just upsets me and I have to turn it off.
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Gonna echo the majority No.
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I voted yes because of WDADU. Yeah, it's not unlistenable, but it's pretty bad overall as far as I'm concerned.
That. It's technically listenable, but in practice it's not really listenable.
Otherwise, no. DT have a high standard, and even their weaker albums all have some something great on them.
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I listen to the album version of Ytse Jam quiet often, I can't say the same for anything from FII.
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I do honestly find DT12 difficult to listen to. I'm constantly distracted by the snare sound and have difficulty focusing on the music even though I do love the music as well as the drum parts.
I find WDADU infinitely more listenable than DT12 even though I like the music from DT12 infinitely more.
I hope that some day it's remixed with a different snare like I&W...but not like that snare they replaced the I&W snare with :lol
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I voted no. Dream Theater is one of the few bands in the world that doesn't have a bad album.
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Yes, I think Systematic Chaos is bad and unlistenable.
Black Clouds is bad, but not unlistenable.
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Most of Train of Thought & Black Clouds I cant listen to,plus about half of Six Degrees and Systematic Chaos and quite a bit of WDADU too! But then DT are nowhere near my fave band...
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Systematic Chaos
Bad sound, bad songs.
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Yes.
WDADU and DT12
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No way
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The Human Equation
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The Human Equation
:loser:
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if i never listened to DT12 or WDADU again, i don't think i'd ever regret it
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Yes. The last two albums and WDADU.
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No. WDADU may sound like it was recorded by smashing two bricks hooked up to a car battery together, but the actual songwriting was solid(Hell, I'd put The Killing Hand in my top 3 without hesitation), and although I almost always opt for WDADR instead, I occasionally go for the studio version, when I'm in the right mood. And while DT12 sounds like the final mix was accidentally run through one of JP's distortion pedals, once again, the songwriting saves it.
If we were talking about individual DT songs though, this would be a different matter -- even though I've listened to it twice, I can't remember a single thing about Raw Dog.
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I voted no, because my least favourite DT albums (DT12 and WDADU) are ones I don't really like that much, but they both have their good moments. In the case of DT12, I'm just really indifferent to/bored by the rest of music on there; regarding WDADU, the main reason I never listen to it is the production.
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Absolutely not, no. I wish people would get it into their heads that there is no such thing as a bad album; they're just albums that you personally don't like. Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
Lol. This kind of relativistic approach rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's presented in such an arrogant manner. By this logic, nothing ever could be considered "bad," since there would always be some bloke on the planet who liked it. No bad movies, no kitschy paintings, no ugly architecture, no lame poetry, no pulp novels. Everything is just a politically correct safe space, there is no good or bad, and beauty is in the eye of the special snowflake beholders. "Null and void," like we're talking law here, give me a break. There's a lot of bad shit out there, and this type of exaggerated artistic relativism just perpetuates that.
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Absolutely not, no. I wish people would get it into their heads that there is no such thing as a bad album; they're just albums that you personally don't like. Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
Lol. This kind of relativistic approach rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's presented in such an arrogant manner. By this logic, nothing ever could be considered "bad," since there would always be some bloke on the planet who liked it. No bad movies, no kitschy paintings, no ugly architecture, no lame poetry, no pulp novels. Everything is just a politically correct safe space, there is no good or bad, and beauty is in the eye of the special snowflake beholders. "Null and void," like we're talking law here, give me a break. There's a lot of bad shit out there, and this type of exaggerated artistic relativism just perpetuates that.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/3d1bff71db9fff85861e14c745792061/tumblr_n99owvCBXz1sgl0ajo1_250.gif)
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Well, relativistic approach is correct, but to a limited extent.
You can see this in an album like The Astonishing, I consider it to be truly DT's magnum opus, yet someone else might consider it to be truly bad because of a thousand reasons. This is relative, as the writing quality of the album can only be denied by plain ignorance.
There are, however, pieces of music that are just pathethic, like many popular songs which are heard on many parties... Yet people like them!
That's something else, if you like it or not doesn't make it good or bad, it can be a really lame song to a musical ear that happens to be on every teenager party, or a huge compositional achievement by an ignored individual.
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No. Just no.
Stop thinking your taste in music is better than all those "ignorant" people. Whether music is good or not isn't about how complex the composition or however mature you think the songwriting is. It's about how you feel when you listen to it, 100%. Some people like modern pop because it makes them feel good, which is completely fine. Who the fuck are you to assign "ignorance" to anyone for not liking something just because you do?
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Absolutely not, no. I wish people would get it into their heads that there is no such thing as a bad album; they're just albums that you personally don't like. Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
Lol. This kind of relativistic approach rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's presented in such an arrogant manner. By this logic, nothing ever could be considered "bad," since there would always be some bloke on the planet who liked it. No bad movies, no kitschy paintings, no ugly architecture, no lame poetry, no pulp novels. Everything is just a politically correct safe space, there is no good or bad, and beauty is in the eye of the special snowflake beholders. "Null and void," like we're talking law here, give me a break. There's a lot of bad shit out there, and this type of exaggerated artistic relativism just perpetuates that.
Then who decides what is bad?
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Never seen a message board that has debates about subjectivity vs objectivity so often :lol
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Absolutely not, no. I wish people would get it into their heads that there is no such thing as a bad album; they're just albums that you personally don't like. Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
Lol. This kind of relativistic approach rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's presented in such an arrogant manner. By this logic, nothing ever could be considered "bad," since there would always be some bloke on the planet who liked it. No bad movies, no kitschy paintings, no ugly architecture, no lame poetry, no pulp novels. Everything is just a politically correct safe space, there is no good or bad, and beauty is in the eye of the special snowflake beholders. "Null and void," like we're talking law here, give me a break. There's a lot of bad shit out there, and this type of exaggerated artistic relativism just perpetuates that.
Then who decides what is bad?
I do. There, the truth is out, it's me. So if you're curious if something you like is bad, tell me what it is and I'll let you know if it's bad or not.
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Then who decides what is bad?
This is a very good question. If certain music is undeniably bad, who's to point to parameters and proof that we're dealing with objectively bad music? Where can we inform us about the facts that clearly imply inferiority of some bands or songs? And wouldn't it then be easy to scientifically prove low quality and therefore be able to use these methods to teach people what albums they should and which ones they shouldn't listen to?
I sometimes think people tend to label music as "objectively bad" because it hurts them to realize they cannot prove how superior their own favorites in music are to someone else's favorites. Using "objective truth" as an argument solves that problem.
As far as the limits of relativistic approaches go, that is a good point and something to think about. It's sometimes important to realize that when someone considers something "bad", it's not like every single aspect of the music in question is terrible. Sometimes the lyrics are terrible, but the tune is solid. Sometimes the melody is offensively generic, but the production has its value. Sometimes the production sounds horrendous, but the performances are actually solid. What the limited relativistic approach maybe does is that it shows there isn't any music out there that has absolutely no quality about it. Probably.
And in my opinion, Dream Theater has no bad or unlistenable albums. I very rarely listen to Falling into infinity and When dream and day unite, but it would be way too harsh to call them bad.
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I'm pretty sure the only people who even mentioned anything being "objectively" blah blah blah were the people arguing against it.
I guess, in the end, there are some people who really need "IMO" or its equivalent mentioned in every single post. Dunno.
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Then who decides what is bad?
This is a very good question. If certain music is undeniably bad, who's to point to parameters and proof that we're dealing with objectively bad music? Where can we inform us about the facts that clearly imply inferiority of some bands or songs? And wouldn't it then be easy to scientifically prove low quality and therefore be able to use these methods to teach people what albums they should and which ones they shouldn't listen to?
I sometimes think people tend to label music as "objectively bad" because it hurts them to realize they cannot prove how superior their own favorites in music are to someone else's favorites. Using "objective truth" as an argument solves that problem.
As far as the limits of relativistic approaches go, that is a good point and something to think about. It's sometimes important to realize that when someone considers something "bad", it's not like every single aspect of the music in question is terrible. Sometimes the lyrics are terrible, but the tune is solid. Sometimes the melody is offensively generic, but the production has its value. Sometimes the production sounds horrendous, but the performances are actually solid. What the limited relativistic approach maybe does is that it shows there isn't any music out there that has absolutely no quality about it. Probably.
And in my opinion, Dream Theater has no bad or unlistenable albums. I very rarely listen to Falling into infinity and When dream and day unite, but it would be way too harsh to call them bad.
Naturally, we would first have to define what is good and what is bad. From a personal standpoint, and I know I'm not alone in this, I would define bad music as music with out of tune instruments and singers who are obviously tone deaf. However, if history has shown us anything, is that there are some people who actually find that sort of thing listenable. Some punk rock comes to mind. Personally, I find that music horrible but it does have some merit among, but not limited to, the short attention span types and those who only know three chords. However, my definition of punk being bad music would be disagreed upon by many. Am I wrong? Nobody can unequivocally say yes because the truth is there is plenty of punk rock that IS horribly out of tune. Should that automatically make music bad? One would think the inability to play the instrument properly, or at least without the cacophonous sounds, would lead to bad music. I don't care if someone thinks I'm wrong because I think out of tune instruments and tone deaf vocals DO sound horrible. Nobody can argue that because that is my opinion and an observable fact.
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The annoying problem here is that while this
Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
is true, it completely misses the point of the thread. There no such thing as objectively good or bad music, but this isn't a philosophy discussion thread. This is at its core an "are there any DT albums you don't like?" thread. It's such a simple question and there's no need to bog it down with definitions of obscure concepts.
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^ I think this is right.
I don't really think any of their albums are 'unlistenable,' but I guess I find DT12 to be pretty 'don'tlistenable.'
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No. Just no.
Stop thinking your taste in music is better than all those "ignorant" people. Whether music is good or not isn't about how complex the composition or however mature you think the songwriting is. It's about how you feel when you listen to it, 100%. Some people like modern pop because it makes them feel good, which is completely fine. Who the fuck are you to assign "ignorance" to anyone for not liking something just because you do?
Let's see, chillout dude, nobody is insulting anyone.
I'm a big electronic music fan and frequently listen to that, and speaking of popular music, people like Bruno Mars have very high quality music writing there and great voices, so don't judge like that.
But there are certain kinds of music which repeats three notes over and over through a constant beat and sing about absolute shit topics. The thing isn't hard to do and it doesn't leave any message.
I can safely conclude that it is relative, but that it's also true that there are things that are good to a majority of people, and that depends on how accesible to everyone is the piece made. There are, however, quality standarts, which makes us facedesk everytime you see someone pay thousands for a random painting or with random paint dots around (not the white ones, since I heard that was a hoax).
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Such a prog discussion lol
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This is one of the dumbest discussions ever had on this forum.
And yet, this is like the third time I've seen it happen.
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I don't know, I'm enjoying it. ;D
I also think it's very important. If it weren't for people giving more thought about the music and being maybe even slightly philosophical about it, every discussion might as well end with "this sucks", "this rules", "this is shit", "this fuckin' rawks" and stuff like that. Not to mention that if certain things were objective, we wouldn't be able to discuss them, which is what we've been doing for ages.
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This is one of the dumbest discussions ever had on this forum.
And yet, this is like the third time I've seen it happen.
Make it "like the tenth time" and I will agree with you. :lol
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I don't know, I'm enjoying it. ;D
I also think it's very important. If it weren't for people giving more thought about the music and being maybe even slightly philosophical about it, every discussion might as well end with "this sucks", "this rules", "this is shit", "this fuckin' rawks" and stuff like that. Not to mention that if certain things were objective, we wouldn't be able to discuss them, which is what we've been doing for ages.
I don't see the harm in some insightful discussion, either. It can't all be, "my band is better than yours. neener, neener, neeeeener." :lol Never mind the philosophical discussion for the third or tenth time. Let's have the "your band sucks" discussion for the thousandth time. ;)
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Absolutely not, no. I wish people would get it into their heads that there is no such thing as a bad album; they're just albums that you personally don't like. Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
Lol. This kind of relativistic approach rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's presented in such an arrogant manner. By this logic, nothing ever could be considered "bad," since there would always be some bloke on the planet who liked it. No bad movies, no kitschy paintings, no ugly architecture, no lame poetry, no pulp novels. Everything is just a politically correct safe space, there is no good or bad, and beauty is in the eye of the special snowflake beholders. "Null and void," like we're talking law here, give me a break. There's a lot of bad shit out there, and this type of exaggerated artistic relativism just perpetuates that.
:tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup
In this case, sometimes it just strikes me as fanboyism. We're talking DT here, god forbid someone imply that the mighty prog metal maestros aren't perfect (or even just "good" all the time!)
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Absolutely not, no. I wish people would get it into their heads that there is no such thing as a bad album; they're just albums that you personally don't like. Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
Lol. This kind of relativistic approach rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's presented in such an arrogant manner. By this logic, nothing ever could be considered "bad," since there would always be some bloke on the planet who liked it. No bad movies, no kitschy paintings, no ugly architecture, no lame poetry, no pulp novels. Everything is just a politically correct safe space, there is no good or bad, and beauty is in the eye of the special snowflake beholders. "Null and void," like we're talking law here, give me a break. There's a lot of bad shit out there, and this type of exaggerated artistic relativism just perpetuates that.
Then who decides what is bad?
People used to clearly know what was good and bad music, movies etc. However, just as each successive generation hates more to be told anything is morally right or wrong, that has naturally bled over into entertainment where each individual feels that their view, no matter how skewed, corrupt, perverted, ignorant, etc etc is totally justifiable and "I'm right!" no matter the evidence to the contrary.
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Absolutely not, no. I wish people would get it into their heads that there is no such thing as a bad album; they're just albums that you personally don't like. Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
Lol. This kind of relativistic approach rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's presented in such an arrogant manner. By this logic, nothing ever could be considered "bad," since there would always be some bloke on the planet who liked it. No bad movies, no kitschy paintings, no ugly architecture, no lame poetry, no pulp novels. Everything is just a politically correct safe space, there is no good or bad, and beauty is in the eye of the special snowflake beholders. "Null and void," like we're talking law here, give me a break. There's a lot of bad shit out there, and this type of exaggerated artistic relativism just perpetuates that.
Then who decides what is bad?
People used to clearly know what was good and bad music, movies etc. However, just as each successive generation hates more to be told anything is morally right or wrong, that has naturally bled over into entertainment where each individual feels that their view, no matter how skewed, corrupt, perverted, ignorant, etc etc is totally justifiable and "I'm right!" no matter the evidence to the contrary.
It's what happens when everyone has their hand in the cookie jar. Two generations ago there were far fewer options and most music was good, just as most movies were good. Sure there were probably still some horrible forms of music/film entertainment, but the ratio of good to bad was much better.
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This thread is why we can't have nice things.
And every other thread.
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(https://65.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2j3ykuVWI1rnd6h8.gif)
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Absolutely not, no. I wish people would get it into their heads that there is no such thing as a bad album; they're just albums that you personally don't like. Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
Lol. This kind of relativistic approach rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's presented in such an arrogant manner. By this logic, nothing ever could be considered "bad," since there would always be some bloke on the planet who liked it. No bad movies, no kitschy paintings, no ugly architecture, no lame poetry, no pulp novels. Everything is just a politically correct safe space, there is no good or bad, and beauty is in the eye of the special snowflake beholders. "Null and void," like we're talking law here, give me a break. There's a lot of bad shit out there, and this type of exaggerated artistic relativism just perpetuates that.
Then who decides what is bad?
People used to clearly know what was good and bad music, movies etc. However, just as each successive generation hates more to be told anything is morally right or wrong, that has naturally bled over into entertainment where each individual feels that their view, no matter how skewed, corrupt, perverted, ignorant, etc etc is totally justifiable and "I'm right!" no matter the evidence to the contrary.
bro are you for real
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Absolutely not, no. I wish people would get it into their heads that there is no such thing as a bad album; they're just albums that you personally don't like. Even if just 1 person on the planet likes it, the "badness" is rendered null and void.
Lol. This kind of relativistic approach rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's presented in such an arrogant manner. By this logic, nothing ever could be considered "bad," since there would always be some bloke on the planet who liked it. No bad movies, no kitschy paintings, no ugly architecture, no lame poetry, no pulp novels. Everything is just a politically correct safe space, there is no good or bad, and beauty is in the eye of the special snowflake beholders. "Null and void," like we're talking law here, give me a break. There's a lot of bad shit out there, and this type of exaggerated artistic relativism just perpetuates that.
Then who decides what is bad?
People used to clearly know what was good and bad music, movies etc. However, just as each successive generation hates more to be told anything is morally right or wrong, that has naturally bled over into entertainment where each individual feels that their view, no matter how skewed, corrupt, perverted, ignorant, etc etc is totally justifiable and "I'm right!" no matter the evidence to the contrary.
It's what happens when everyone has their hand in the cookie jar. Two generations ago there were far fewer options and most music was good, just as most movies were good. Sure there were probably still some horrible forms of music/film entertainment, but the ratio of good to bad was much better.
What there are thousands of terrible movies and songs and albums from every generation. You just don't know about them because no one bothers with them anymore.
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I think bad movies in the XX century were much worse than bad movies now...
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There have always been tons and tons of terrible movies and terrible music. They just got filtered out of pop-culture and have largely been forgotten/irrelevant. On top of that, the internet brings MUCH more awareness to every movie/every album to the point that we are just more aware of the horrible stuff coming out recently than we might have been in the past.
Warning: The above post is entirely subjective. It is not meant to imply objectivity in any sense and is strictly personal opinion. End warning.
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I really don't think you can say whether or not a song is good, though it does depend on how you define a good song. I you define it as enjoyable, moving or pleasent to listen for example that's entirely subjective.
There are certainly some objective qualities about music, like production quality, originality, songwriting to a certain degree etc, but they do not automatically make a song good (enjoyable to listen) There are plenty of good songs with really bad production quality.
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There are tons of bad albums, and bad songs, and bad bands.
There are tons of bad films, and bad TV shows. And bad actors, and bad directors, and bad writers.
There are tons of bad authors, and bad poets, and bad painters.
There are tons of bad EVERYTHING. That is what makes the exceptional seem...exceptional.
The only thing is that there is no accounting for taste. There are things that will appeal to person A that repulse person B, and vice versa.
So no one should object to the proposition that there are tons of bad things out there - in fact, MOST of the things out there are bad, to varying degrees. But people aren't always going to agree on which ones are good and which one are bad.
I guarantee that the few song by DT that I find absolutely repugnant have lots of fans here. I have no idea why they like those songs, because they are truly awful. But for whatever reason, those songs appeal to those people. And that's OK. That's what makes the world go 'round.
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What there are thousands of terrible movies and songs and albums from every generation. You just don't know about them because no one bothers with them anymore.
There have always been tons and tons of terrible movies and terrible music. They just got filtered out of pop-culture and have largely been forgotten/irrelevant. On top of that, the internet brings MUCH more awareness to every movie/every album to the point that we are just more aware of the horrible stuff coming out recently than we might have been in the past.
Warning: The above post is entirely subjective. It is not meant to imply objectivity in any sense and is strictly personal opinion. End warning.
See, the both of you seem to have a problem with details. I never said there were NO bad movies or albums made in the past. I simply said the number of bad ones have increased over the years. Is this provable? Absolutely. Population has increased, which means people producing films and books and albums has increased. The number of albums released has increased over 150% in the last two decades alone. Now, going back two generations, to the time of my grandparents, how much has media production increased since then? These days it's far easier to self produce and self publish, which creates an exponential increase over the last 10-20 years. So, my original point that the ratio of bad to good is far more favorable for good going back a couple of generations holds plenty of water.
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Leaving aside the philosophical debate (not that it's unimportant in general, just not very relevant to the question at hand), I would say personally they don't have any unlistenable albums, but I don't find TOT very interesting (and I say that as a metal fan).
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On topic, I can't listen to Black Clouds as a whole. I'm in the mood of listening to ANTR or Tuscany every now and then, but that's about it. I know the album has some great stuff, but I don't think it works that much as a 70+ min experience.
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On topic, I can't listen to Black Clouds as a whole. I'm in the mood of listening to ANTR or Tuscany every now and then, but that's about it. I know the album has some great stuff, but I don't think it works that much as a 70+ min experience.
BC&SL has grown on me over the years. It's tough when it goes up against albums like Awake or Six Degrees, but I've come to love all of the tracks. AROP is probably my least favorite song on the album but I do like the lyrics since it's about Freemasonry and secret societies in general. TCOT is a Top 10 song. TBOT has one of JP's most amazing solos. Being a writer, Wither is something that's quite personal to me. The "hopelessly drifting" section on ANTR is one of my favorite DT moments and the riffs throughout TSF are killer.
Overall, I prefer it to SC, WDADU, FII, and maybe even 8V.
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I get what you mean! I have a weird relationship with Black Clouds:
I love A Nightmare to Remember
I hate A Rite of Passage, most boring DT song in years
I kinda like Wither
I love The Shattered Fortress but I'm not always in the mood for it
Sometimes I love The Best of Times, sometimes I don't
I love The Count of Tuscany
I can take any of those songs (the ones I like, of course) and pump them and feel just as excited as I felt when I first heard the record back in 2009, but the album doesn't work for me as a whole. I can't listen to The Best of Times after Shattered, and I can't listen to Tuscany after The Best of Times and so on, you know? I like looking at it as a cool collection of songs, but the album's flow as a whole loses me very easily.
Also, as much as I love A Nightmare to Remember, I think it's an exhausting song. Every time I listen to it I love it and I headbang and air-drum like a crazed gorilla, but I feel the urge of putting something that's not DT afterwards. It always leaves me on need on a break. Also, speaking of the album flow, it doesn't help when it's followed by one of DT's worst songs ever lol.
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The only thing I dislike about ANTR are the MP vocal parts. I don't know if you've ever listened to Dimmu Borgir, but the beginning of ANTR with the double bass and haunting keyboards are completely reminiscent of their music. It's one of DT's heaviest, and darkest, moments.
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Yeah, same. I can't take that part seriously. I basically love everything that's before that part and everything that is after that part. Given that JLB didn't work out to that part either, I would've made a friggin' church choir sing something scary and epic or something. Not that 'Ima be a badass gang guy' approach.
I know the guitar/keys/guitar/keys trade-off is standard DT at its best, but I think that the way the solos are presented and how are played is totally badass. One of my favorite DT trade-offs.
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Are there any bad/unlistenable DT studio albums?
Yes. However, I didn't used to think so up until about 3 years ago. Before, it might have been a song or two here and there. Now, it's many songs which usually ends up being a turn off to an entire album or albums.
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The only thing I dislike about ANTR are the MP vocal parts. I don't know if you've ever listened to Dimmu Borgir, but the beginning of ANTR with the double bass and haunting keyboards are completely reminiscent of their music. It's one of DT's heaviest, and darkest, moments.
The weirdest part about those vocals is that the actual lyrics he is singing are not even close to matching his style - "by the grace of God above everyone survived"
???
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If you take that line out of context, I agree. But in the context of the song and that whole lyrical passage, I think it is perfect.
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Yeah, same. I can't take that part seriously. I basically love everything that's before that part and everything that is after that part. Given that JLB didn't work out to that part either, I would've made a friggin' church choir sing something scary and epic or something. Not that 'Ima be a badass gang guy' approach.
I know the guitar/keys/guitar/keys trade-off is standard DT at its best, but I think that the way the solos are presented and how are played is totally badass. One of my favorite DT trade-offs.
I agree with both paragraphs. I've never been a fan of his vocals and live they usually sounded pretty bad.
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If you take that line out of context, I agree. But in the context of the song and that whole lyrical passage, I think it is perfect.
No context can make him sounding pissed about everyone surviving perfect.
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If you take that line out of context, I agree. But in the context of the song and that whole lyrical passage, I think it is perfect.
No context can make him sounding pissed about everyone surviving perfect.
Well, good, because that isn't what's going on in that section.
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That's what it sounds like. Not sure how else you can paint it.
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That's what it sounds like. Not sure how else you can paint it.
I interpret the section as an exposition of the mental trauma the character suffered in the accident and the aftermath. These two lines in particular makes me feel that way
''Like a recurring nightmare haunting my dreams''
''No son should ever have to see his father such a mess''
I think people just focus a bit too much on the ''Everyone survived! ROOOOAAARRR!'' part :lol
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DT has 3 albums that never see the light of day in my music collection: WDADU, Awake, and FII.
I really tried to listen to these albums with an open mind, but they're just awful in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm more of a metal head than anything else, but there's barely so much as a single song I enjoy on any of those 3. In fact, I don't even consider WDADU part of their discography.
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I really tried to listen to these albums with an open mind, but they're just awful in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm more of a metal head than anything else, but there's barely so much as a single song I enjoy on any of those 3. In fact, I don't even consider WDADU part of their discography.
If you're a metalhead I don't get why you wouldn't like at least a few songs on Awake. The Mirror, Lie, Caught in A Web and Scarred are pretty heavy songs.
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I really tried to listen to these albums with an open mind, but they're just awful in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm more of a metal head than anything else, but there's barely so much as a single song I enjoy on any of those 3. In fact, I don't even consider WDADU part of their discography.
If you're a metalhead I don't get why you wouldn't like at least a few songs on Awake. The Mirror, Lie, Caught in A Web and Scarred are pretty heavy songs.
That's kind of what I was thinking.
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DT has 3 albums that never see the light of day in my music collection: WDADU, Awake, and FII.
I really tried to listen to these albums with an open mind, but they're just awful in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm more of a metal head than anything else, but there's barely so much as a single song I enjoy on any of those 3. In fact, I don't even consider WDADU part of their discography.
I don't even see the point of that. It's part of their discography and dismissing it so much that you don't consider it part of their discography is a bit self-righteous.
Awake as a whole is one of their darker and somewhat heavier albums. Caught in a Web, The Mirror, and Lie are three extremely intense songs. Maybe they're just not your cup of tea.
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I really tried to listen to these albums with an open mind, but they're just awful in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm more of a metal head than anything else, but there's barely so much as a single song I enjoy on any of those 3. In fact, I don't even consider WDADU part of their discography.
If you're a metalhead I don't get why you wouldn't like at least a few songs on Awake. The Mirror, Lie, Caught in A Web and Scarred are pretty heavy songs.
DT has 3 albums that never see the light of day in my music collection: WDADU, Awake, and FII.
I really tried to listen to these albums with an open mind, but they're just awful in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm more of a metal head than anything else, but there's barely so much as a single song I enjoy on any of those 3. In fact, I don't even consider WDADU part of their discography.
I don't even see the point of that. It's part of their discography and dismissing it so much that you don't consider it part of their discography is a bit self-righteous.
Awake as a whole is one of their darker and somewhat heavier albums. Caught in a Web, The Mirror, and Lie are three extremely intense songs. Maybe they're just not your cup of tea.
Well, as for the WDADU comment, it's partly because of the change in singer. Changing singers changes the entire sound of a band regardless of the instrumentation, and it was so early on that I don't count it. It has less to do with the quality of the music, as it does the quality of the singer.
As for Awake, I think it's the whole late 80s/early 90s feel to the album. I didn't really start listening to music until well into the 90s, so it's just not my style. I do like Erotomania, but it's a steep drop off after that for me. I just reviewed my most recent DT song and album rankings, and I actually have Caught in a Web and The Mirror near the very bottom of my rankings. Like 2/10 bad lol. Like they say, "One man's trash is another man's treasure!".
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DT has 3 albums that never see the light of day in my music collection: WDADU, Awake, and FII.
I really tried to listen to these albums with an open mind, but they're just awful in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm more of a metal head than anything else, but there's barely so much as a single song I enjoy on any of those 3. In fact, I don't even consider WDADU part of their discography.
I don't even see the point of that. It's part of their discography and dismissing it so much that you don't consider it part of their discography is a bit self-righteous.
Awake as a whole is one of their darker and somewhat heavier albums. Caught in a Web, The Mirror, and Lie are three extremely intense songs. Maybe they're just not your cup of tea.
And in my defense, I have the studio albums box set, and they don't include WDADU either ;)
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DT has 3 albums that never see the light of day in my music collection: WDADU, Awake, and FII.
I really tried to listen to these albums with an open mind, but they're just awful in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm more of a metal head than anything else, but there's barely so much as a single song I enjoy on any of those 3. In fact, I don't even consider WDADU part of their discography.
I don't even see the point of that. It's part of their discography and dismissing it so much that you don't consider it part of their discography is a bit self-righteous.
Awake as a whole is one of their darker and somewhat heavier albums. Caught in a Web, The Mirror, and Lie are three extremely intense songs. Maybe they're just not your cup of tea.
And in my defense, I have the studio albums box set, and they don't include WDADU either ;)
I get where you are coming from. But as to that last point, their decision is not for the same reasons as yours. They simply do not have the rights to that album, so they CAN'T include it or any of its songs in any compilation. As their live shows through the years support, the band clearly doesn't ignore the album.
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Funny thing is they don't have the rights to sell the album, but nobody is even remotely interested in suing DT for recording themselves playing songs from it AND selling those recordings so that's kind of funny.
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Funny thing is they don't have the rights to sell the album, but nobody is even remotely interested in suing DT for recording themselves playing songs from it AND selling those recordings so that's kind of funny.
They can't sue the band. They have no rights over any subsequent live performances--only the studio recordings.
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I get where you are coming from. But as to that last point, their decision is not for the same reasons as yours. They simply do not have the rights to that album, so they CAN'T include it or any of its songs in any compilation. As their live shows through the years support, the band clearly doesn't ignore the album.
I'm assuming that's why WDADU isn't on Spotify either even though the rest of their albums are.
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I get where you are coming from. But as to that last point, their decision is not for the same reasons as yours. They simply do not have the rights to that album, so they CAN'T include it or any of its songs in any compilation. As their live shows through the years support, the band clearly doesn't ignore the album.
I'm assuming that's why WDADU isn't on Spotify either even though the rest of their albums are.
That would be a good assumption.
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Funny thing is they don't have the rights to sell the album, but nobody is even remotely interested in suing DT for recording themselves playing songs from it AND selling those recordings so that's kind of funny.
They can't sue the band. They have no rights over any subsequent live performances--only the studio recordings.
Yes I know.
The funny thing is the rights could be DT's again and ir wouldn't make any difference for anyone.
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Why on Earth don't they have the rights to that album?
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I get where you are coming from. But as to that last point, their decision is not for the same reasons as yours. They simply do not have the rights to that album, so they CAN'T include it or any of its songs in any compilation. As their live shows through the years support, the band clearly doesn't ignore the album.
I'm assuming that's why WDADU isn't on Spotify either even though the rest of their albums are.
That would be a good assumption.
Haha, I know it was kind of an obvious statement, but I honestly didn't know DT didn't have rights to it until Bosk just said that, so I was just thinking out loud...
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As for Awake, I think it's the whole late 80s/early 90s feel to the album.
Good songwriting, good lyrics, and good production? I get it.
j/k pal
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I get where you are coming from. But as to that last point, their decision is not for the same reasons as yours. They simply do not have the rights to that album, so they CAN'T include it or any of its songs in any compilation. As their live shows through the years support, the band clearly doesn't ignore the album.
I'm assuming that's why WDADU isn't on Spotify either even though the rest of their albums are.
It is and has always been on Spotify in my country. Not that it matters because I never listen to it :lol
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Why on Earth don't they have the rights to that album?
The short version is: Because they were a young, fledgling band that played an obscure kind of music, and it was the '80s. An small, obscure label signed them to a bad contract that gave that label complete, ironclad rights to the band's material. When they eventually went to a bigger label years later to record Images & Words, that smaller label refused to sell the rights to WDADU to the new label or the band, so that is where it sits. This sort of thing really isn't all that uncommon, especially back during that timeframe.
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And for young bands desperate to get an album out.
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I get where you are coming from. But as to that last point, their decision is not for the same reasons as yours. They simply do not have the rights to that album, so they CAN'T include it or any of its songs in any compilation. As their live shows through the years support, the band clearly doesn't ignore the album.
I'm assuming that's why WDADU isn't on Spotify either even though the rest of their albums are.
It is and has always been on Spotify in my country. Not that it matters because I never listen to it :lol
Yeah it's on Spotify for me too.
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I voted no. WDADU is by far my least favorite album; at least in studio form I only really enjoy "A Fortune In Lies", "Ytse Jam" and "Afterlife" in their entirety, and then portions of other songs. But I wouldn't quite call it unlistenable.
SC is my next least-favorite, but sonically it's pretty solid so again, not "unlistenable" - just not the best songs.
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Why didn't they just give When Dream and Day Reunite a wide release and let that be the definitive version of the album? It was a pretty high quality release and performance, but doomed to obscurity for being a Ytsejam release.
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Why didn't they just give When Dream and Day Reunite a wide release and let that be the definitive version of the album? It was a pretty high quality release and performance, but doomed to obscurity for being a Ytsejam release.
Ask Michael for that.
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. In fact, I don't even consider WDADU part of their discography.
That's like saying, "Grass isn't green."
I'm not sure I see the point in objecting to stone cold facts. ???
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. In fact, I don't even consider WDADU part of their discography.
That's like saying, "Grass isn't green."
I'm not sure I see the point in objecting to stone cold facts. ???
Really? But you do that all the time in the sports-related threads. :biggrin:
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I understand that thinking. While I know WD&DU is their first album, I've always seen I&W as their first proper album. WD&DU rarely gets a mention in DT related discussions I have in real life. I wouldn't say that it isn't part of the discography, but that is often how I treat it naturally.
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Yea I get where he's coming from. WDADU is obviously part of the DT discography, but it's so far removed from everything after that it's easy to forget. DT as we know it was really born on I&W.
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WDADU is a little tough for me to digest because of the production, but I think there's a lot of good there and would love for the band to re-record a few songs.
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Yes.
Systematic Chaos :facepalm:
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Yes.
Systematic Chaos :facepalm:
:sadpanda:
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Yes.
Systematic Chaos :facepalm:
I agree with the :facepalm: , but only in connection with your statement that Systematic Chaos is somehow bad or unlistenable. :youfail:
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Systematic Chaos is easily the most Pornoy DT album.
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I'd say BC&SL is the most Portnoy.
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SC isn't unlistenable, it's just one I don't gravitate too. Not as "wow" as their other albums.
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Systematic Chaos is easily the most Pornoy DT album.
That's interesting. To me, it is really a JP-dominated album. And I don't mean that it just sounds guitar heavy, but rather that JP's writing really dominated that album.
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Yes. The fantasy lyrics are really a call back to the first two albums too. Portnoy only really dominates 1 song. I think the perception of it being a Portnoy album comes from the documentary that came with it.
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Right. But even that, if you get away from who is doing all the talking and look at who is guiding the music itself, it is totally JP.
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As it has probably always been.
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Yeah. I talked to JP about the writing process and some of the details. Kinda the thumbnail, as I understand it, is that JP and Jordan typically come in with the lion's share of ideas, as you might expect since the two of them play compositional instruments. When they would come together to jam those ideas out in the studio, Mike, and to a lesser extent, JM or, to an even lesser extent, James might throw out an idea here or there, or one of them would make comments about taking a riff, melody, or whatever and changing it up, or rearranging a part to go elsewhere. Mike was big on those changes and variations, and on the arrangement suggestions. John has always been the primary, with Jordan being the second. And their percentages of contributions fluctuate a bit from album to album.
That has generally stayed about the same with Mangini in the band, except that he makes fewer compositional or arrangement suggestions. But otherwise, it is still basically the same process it always was.
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And I like it that way.
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That's pretty much what I assumed. I do miss some of Portnoy's structural/arrangement ideas on some of the newer albums. They seem better at writing shorter songs without him (see the last two albums) but there are a few moments in some of the longer songs where I think a revised arrangement could've helped the song. Even Illumination Theory, as much as I loved that song, a lot of people seemed to criticize it for being disjointed or whatever. It's a minor qualm, but I hope they work on that in the future.
On topic: The only DT albums I find unlistenable are the ones with way too loud production. Systematic Chaos literally gives me a headache. On the other hand, a lot of people criticized DT12 for the same reasons and it never bugged me. I actually thought it sounded really good. :mehlin
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Maybe not so much as albums themselves but there are plenty of Songs I can point out that just set my teeth on edge. Mostly, these are Petrucci songs.
1. The Ministry of Lost Souls: There is a cool breakdown section in the middle but it's so out of place in this slow ballad esque song. It should have been condensed to 4 minutes and maybe upped the tempo a bit but it's just too slow to justify the instrumental in the middle.
2. Half the songs in The Astonishing: Act of Faythe, Chosen, and Losing Faythe to name a few. Ravenskill has good music but the lyrics are God aweful
3. Beneath the Surface is just a personal grievance. Objectionally it is a very beautiful song! but the lyrics is way to close to home for me and it brings up things I wish to forget.
4. I don't know why but I just can't get into Disappear. They made it the last song on their "Greatest Hit" album and on the Light Side even but it is just a dark slow depressing song. If anything they should have put that on the end of the Dark side but why on the Greatest Hit(s) at all? Such an off choice.
5. You not Me has grown on me over multiple listens but that ending Crunchy guitar riff repeating so many times just irritates me.
The rest I can tolerate but those are just the 5 that came to mind.
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3. Beneath the Surface is just a personal grievance. Objectionally it is a very beautiful song! but the lyrics is way to close to home for me and it brings up things I wish to forget.
Exactly the same for me actually. I forgot about this one. I think it's a pretty good song, but I haven't managed to get through all of it in years because I just can't.
So yeah, BtS is unlistenable for me, but not because it's bad.
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I think it's one of DT's best mellow songs, however, it does manage to summon a very sad feeling on me.
DT is sometimes very good at this, I once read somewhere a person who couldn't get through Sacrificed Sons because it reminded him so so much of seeing the towers fall with his own eyes.
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There are no really "bad" or "unlistenable" DT albums as far as I'm concerned, there are merely "hard to listen to" albums and those are The Astonishing, IaW and Awake, the former because it requires a certain mood from the listener, it's that long and that different, the latter two because those are the only DT albums I find rather uneven, so they allow my mind to wander too much...
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Systematic Chaos and The Astonishing are by far my least favourite DT albums, so they might be unlistenable if I'm grading on a curve, but not in by general standards. Voted no.
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Ever since Train of Thought I have been unable to listen to a whole DT album without skipping tracks. In this very same album there are such great songs like Stream of Consciousness but it makes me wanna cut my balls and just skip it when Rudess starts playing his silly little notes, similar to what he did in A Change of Seasons from LSFNY (shit, I wanted to kill him). Very hard for me to listen to the whole album from first to last songs.
Octavarium is the same. What is Panic Attack doing there? Never Enough? Sacrificed Sons? Looks like they're just there to use up some space on the record.
Systematic Chaos. Don't even get me started. I think I signed my divorce papers with DT after listening to Constant Motion and Dark Eternal Crap.
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Octavarium is the same. What is Panic Attack doing there? Never Enough? Sacrificed Sons? Looks like they're just there to use up some space on the record.
Systematic Chaos. Don't even get me started. I think I signed my divorce papers with DT after listening to Constant Motion and Dark Eternal Crap.
Yeah fuck those songs. I don't like them so they're utter crap worthless waste of time music. :facepalm:
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I'm biased because Octavarium is my favourite Dream Theater album - but I love Sacrificed Sons & Panic Attack. Yes - "even" I Walk Beside You & The Answer Lies Within.
I also think that The Astonishing is their best album since Octavarium.
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Octavarium is the same. What is Panic Attack doing there? Never Enough? Sacrificed Sons? Looks like they're just there to use up some space on the record.
Systematic Chaos. Don't even get me started. I think I signed my divorce papers with DT after listening to Constant Motion and Dark Eternal Crap.
Yeah fuck those songs. I don't like them so they're utter crap worthless waste of time music. :facepalm:
You said so, sir :tup
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Wtf is ACOS EP doing but taking space at my local music store? Space that could be used by a far better record.
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Octavarium is the same. What is Panic Attack doing there? Never Enough? Sacrificed Sons? Looks like they're just there to use up some space on the record.
None of those three are favorites of mine, but saying they are there just to take up space doesn't make a lot of sense. The flow of the record wouldn't be nearly as good if you took out any of those songs (and that album is not a favorite of mine).
Systematic Chaos. Don't even get me started. I think I signed my divorce papers with DT after listening to Constant Motion and Dark Eternal Crap.
I thought the same thing at first, too, but while Constant Motion still sounds mostly bad to my ears, The Dark Eternal Night grew on me; it's basically the band's only "big dumb" metal song. They needed one of those. :lol :lol
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Though they aren't unlistenable, both WDADU and CD 2 of The Astonishing fits the bill.
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Even though I haven't loved a DT album since SDOIT, it wasn't an obvious "yes" at first because most of the albums after have some redeemable qualities for me. But I still went with yes mostly because of the last 2. DT12 was incredibly hard for me to get through and I found no positives personally. The Astonishing - not so much for the quality of the music (which was a step up from DT12), it's just that I don't think I could sit through those 130 minutes again.
But hey, DT are hardly alone in being a band with 13 albums where you avoid 1 or 2 of them.
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I voted yes on the basis of Systematic Chaos....but that might be a bit of an exaggeration. Only half or so is totally unlistenable. The other half ranges from pretty good to "meh". That's the only album that would even be close to the running for that label.
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Until 2009 there were no unlistenable DT albums for me. Black Clouds & Silver Linings, however, is something I never listen to. You can now add The Astonishing to that list...though TA is worse than BC&SL IMO.
Honestly, it's pretty impressive that out of the band's nearly 20 hours of studio material most of it has held up very well.
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I voted yes on the basis of Systematic Chaos....but that might be a bit of an exaggeration. Only half or so is totally unlistenable. The other half ranges from pretty good to "meh". That's the only album that would even be close to the running for that label.
Unlistenable as in sound quality ? Even then i'd say Death Magnetic is way worse.
Unlistenable as in you don't like the songs on half the album ? That's a bit hyperbolic. Saying the songs are so BAD - it's actually impossible to sit through them.
Not when Surrounded exists :neverusethis:
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I find SC unlistenable on both fronts.
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SC is almost unlistenable for me.
I like WDADU just fine, on the other hand.
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I voted no, but I have a REALLY hard time with DT12.
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I voted no, but I have a REALLY hard time with DT12.
It's only that horrible snare that bothers me.
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I voted no, but I have a REALLY hard time with DT12.
It's only that horrible snare that bothers me.
I've got a lot of reasons, but what bothers me the most is the overall production and the drum sounds as a whole.
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I have a weird relationship with Black Clouds:
Also, as much as I love A Nightmare to Remember, I think it's an exhausting song. Every time I listen to it I love it and I headbang and air-drum like a crazed gorilla, but I feel the urge of putting something that's not DT afterwards. It always leaves me on need on a break. Also, speaking of the album flow, it doesn't help when it's followed by one of DT's worst songs ever lol.
Same here. I have a weird releationship with it too. I love, like a lot, really specific bits of the album. Like Beautiful Agony for example, which at the time gave me hope. I was getting kind of tired of their whole trade-off structure and on my first listen to the album back in 2009, when that section started I got really excited for the album. I couldn't wait to hear the rest of the song! and the album too... and then... the most exhausting trade-off they have ever done happened. And I know you said it was one of their best but it killed the song for me.
And it was all downhill with some really high ups here and there with BC&SL.
AROP? Hate it.
Wither? Kinda ok I guess.
The Shattered Fortress? Found it really repetitive, the Jordan solo got really exhausting to towards the end. BUT THAT FRANKENSTEIN RIFF BENEATH IT HOLY SHIT!
The Best Of Times? Great, great solo. Nothing else.
TCOT? I like it musically, but the lyrics...
BC&SL is the only album where I see that cheesy-ness a lot of people point out with DT.
but it makes me wanna cut my balls and just skip it when Rudess starts playing his silly little notes
And this is one of my biggest problems with recent DT. The album I almost never ever ever go back to is DT12. Like BC&SL all went south from the first track. I was loving TEI and then, silly Jordan notes that really feel our of place.
What is really funny is that I don't find any song on that album bad, but it's really lackluster and kinda boring.
And to answer to the topic, a couple of months ago I would have said The Astonishing was unlistenable, But now it grew on me, and it grew even more when I saw it live. Like I said, I had grown tired of the little trade-offs and silly little sounds from Rudess and this album avoids that. It reeks of a vanity project (Something I had started believing DT was to Rudess thanks to the already mentioned Rudess antics) but it worked.
And don't get me wrong, I really thing Rudess is great, and it shows in TA.
So TL;DR
No, every album has something to listen.
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The Astonishing is by far my least fav album. I'd said I'd class it as unlistenable for me as I've only managed to listen to it all the way though in one sitting once. I have however made an abridged version which removes the songs I dislike (and the fucking Nomacs crap) that is roughly half the original length that I enjoy - but the story no longer makes sense. So yeah in it's proper format The Astonishing is unlistenable for me, but it is salvageable with some editing.
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DT 12 is about as close to bad/unlistenable as they have. Although, I've still yet to listen to WDADU.
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No unlistenable ones, but WDADU and TA comes close to bad. Perhaps BCSL too.
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ffs - songs you don't like are not UNLISTENABLE.
When I think of Unlistenable - I think of the retail version of Death Magnetic. Actually painful to sit through.
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I tried listening to SC last night, by the time I got to Prophets of War I had major ear fatigue. Finishing the album from there was a chore. So yea, unlistenable.
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I tried listening to SC last night, by the time I got to Prophets of War I had major ear fatigue. Finishing the album from there was a chore. So yea, unlistenable.
It's quite hot yes.
But compared to Death Magnetic or Purple by Baroness it's much better.
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That's odd. To me, Systematic chaos gets particularly interesting near the end. The last two songs are very well crafted and especially dramatic, filled with memorable melodies and choruses.
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That's odd. To me, Systematic chaos gets particularly interesting near the end. The last two songs are very well crafted and especially dramatic, filled with memorable melodies and choruses.
I would never call a SONG unlistenable. That sounds incredibly snobbish.
The only thing i'd call unlistenable on a song-based level is something awful like a novelty pop song like the Mr. Blobby song from years ago. Just Godawful. Like Agadoo by Black Lace.
" i don't like this dream theater song ergo I literally cannot listen to it ".
No.
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DT12 is near-unlistenable on the production side. Which is a shame since most of the songs themselves are completely fine. Pls no hate
Even WDADU, IMO their weakest album, I wouldn't call outright bad.
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That's odd. To me, Systematic chaos gets particularly interesting near the end. The last two songs are very well crafted and especially dramatic, filled with memorable melodies and choruses.
Ministry of Lost Souls is by far my least favorite DT song.
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That's odd. To me, Systematic chaos gets particularly interesting near the end. The last two songs are very well crafted and especially dramatic, filled with memorable melodies and choruses.
I would never call a SONG unlistenable. That sounds incredibly snobbish.
The only thing i'd call unlistenable on a song-based level is something awful like a novelty pop song like the Mr. Blobby song from years ago. Just Godawful. Like Agadoo by Black Lace.
" i don't like this dream theater song ergo I literally cannot listen to it ".
No.
I wouldn't get too caught up in the hyperbolic semantics. Just read it as "songs you don't enjoy listening to".
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That's odd. To me, Systematic chaos gets particularly interesting near the end. The last two songs are very well crafted and especially dramatic, filled with memorable melodies and choruses.
I would never call a SONG unlistenable. That sounds incredibly snobbish.
The only thing i'd call unlistenable on a song-based level is something awful like a novelty pop song like the Mr. Blobby song from years ago. Just Godawful. Like Agadoo by Black Lace.
" i don't like this dream theater song ergo I literally cannot listen to it ".
No.
I wouldn't get too caught up in the hyperbolic semantics. Just read it as "songs you don't enjoy listening to".
I interpret it as songs/albums that I absolutely can't listen through without having to stop for whatever reason. I can't listen to them, therefore they're unlistenable. Simple.
Kotowboy's definition isn't any more accurate. If it was, the entire thread would be pointless.
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Just like me.
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You and me both, friend.
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You've made videos for Dream Theater.
I've
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the entire thread would be pointless.
It is.
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the entire thread would be pointless.
It is.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rlXqL0JHsZE/mqdefault.jpg)
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the entire thread would be pointless.
It is.
Not really, just the last couple posts. I guess I'm biased though :)
I was just trying to find out if anyone thought a specific album(s) was no good at all. Not a single track is good. This is not the case for me. In fact, the opposite is true - I only find one or two tracks that I DON'T like at the most. So every album would get played again.
I have to say that I'm a bit surprised at the poll results. I would assume that since this is a fan site, most people would find something redeemable about each album. So with DT having a small fan base to begin with, then 40% of them would throw out one or more of their albums, that doesn't leave very many people that share my opinion. Quite a shame actually. People just don't have the time for (good) music anymore.
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the entire thread would be pointless.
It is.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rlXqL0JHsZE/mqdefault.jpg)
Not sure I get the reference here. Is that from Total Recall?
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the entire thread would be pointless.
It is.
But that never happens here. :P
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the entire thread would be pointless.
It is.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rlXqL0JHsZE/mqdefault.jpg)
Not sure I get the reference here. Is that from Total Recall?
It is.
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It is. In fact, that's a rather well-known scene where Arnold says "It is." Really. It is.
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Is it?
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the entire thread would be pointless.
It is.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rlXqL0JHsZE/mqdefault.jpg)
Not sure I get the reference here. Is that from Total Recall?
It is.
Speaking on unlistenable, that's unwatchable.
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the entire thread would be pointless.
It is.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rlXqL0JHsZE/mqdefault.jpg)
Not sure I get the reference here. Is that from Total Recall?
It is.
Speaking on unlistenable, that's unwatchable.
A lady with three boobs is definitely NOT unwatchable. But seriously, I saw it in the theater when it came out and it was pretty good - by 1990 standards.
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I have to say that I'm a bit surprised at the poll results. I would assume that since this is a fan site, most people would find something redeemable about each album. So with DT having a small fan base to begin with, then 40% of them would throw out one or more of their albums, that doesn't leave very many people that share my opinion. Quite a shame actually. People just don't have the time for (good) music anymore.
It's more the way you phrased the question. You didn't ask if there were any albums with songs we don't like; you asked if there were any unlistenable albums, and that is open to many different interpretations.
I almost always listen to albums all the way through. If there's an album I really like except for one song, maybe two, there's always the Skip button. But if I find that I really can't stand that one song, to the point where I'd rather skip it than listen to it, then the album -- as a whole -- is unlistenable. That's my definition. I can't just put it on and play it through.
I've been a Dream Theater fan since Kevin Moore. Those early albums hold a special place and I can listen to Images and Words and Awake straight through. Same with A Change of Seasons and -- yes -- even Falling Into Infinity. But recent DT albums all have at least a track or two that just don't work for me, they're the ones I skip. So ultimately, if I'm in the mood for some DT, I put on one of the earlier albums. The result is that I never listen to the later stuff. Are they truly "unlistenable"? Again, that depends on your definition. But I don't listen to them, so...
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It has Ronny Cox in.
Instant Win.
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the entire thread would be pointless.
It is.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rlXqL0JHsZE/mqdefault.jpg)
Not sure I get the reference here. Is that from Total Recall?
It is.
Speaking on unlistenable, that's unwatchable.
A lady with three boobs is definitely NOT unwatchable. But seriously, I saw it in the theater when it came out and it was pretty good - by 1990 standards.
I can probably find the video of just the girl with three boobs and be satisfied. :lol No need to watch it all.
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I have to say that I'm a bit surprised at the poll results. I would assume that since this is a fan site, most people would find something redeemable about each album. So with DT having a small fan base to begin with, then 40% of them would throw out one or more of their albums, that doesn't leave very many people that share my opinion. Quite a shame actually. People just don't have the time for (good) music anymore.
It's more the way you phrased the question. You didn't ask if there were any albums with songs we don't like; you asked if there were any unlistenable albums, and that is open to many different interpretations.
I almost always listen to albums all the way through. If there's an album I really like except for one song, maybe two, there's always the Skip button. But if I find that I really can't stand that one song, to the point where I'd rather skip it than listen to it, then the album -- as a whole -- is unlistenable. That's my definition. I can't just put it on and play it through.
I've been a Dream Theater fan since Kevin Moore. Those early albums hold a special place and I can listen to Images and Words and Awake straight through. Same with A Change of Seasons and -- yes -- even Falling Into Infinity. But recent DT albums all have at least a track or two that just don't work for me, they're the ones I skip. So ultimately, if I'm in the mood for some DT, I put on one of the earlier albums. The result is that I never listen to the later stuff. Are they truly "unlistenable"? Again, that depends on your definition. But I don't listen to them, so...
I was thinking that there was something wrong with the way I phrased it so that's why I decided to try and clarify it. I thought my original post would have helped but perhaps not.
I see your point, you want to listen all the way through and not have to hit skip. Sometimes it's not practical if you have it playing on home system and can't get to the button in time.
But with your approach, you would never listen to the really good songs on an album that had couple you didn't like, right?
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True, which is why the really good songs are all in my Dream Theater playlist on my iPod.
My problem is that I'm old and still tend to think in terms of albums rather than playlists. I built all these playlists for my favorite bands, and still tend to just pick albums to listen to. :p
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Technically not a DT album but I think Parama's EP in my roulette is just straight up unlistenable, it's so bad
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I'm gonna go by the definition of if I can make it all the way through the album. I normally chuck whole albums on with a few exceptions. FII has a few tracks I'm likely to skip unless I'm determined to listen to the whole album. SC has a weird effect on me where while I like all the songs to some extent, when I listen to them all in a row I loose focus, I put it down to a flow thing or something. And TA; it's just too big. I still think it works the way it does and I don't exactly want to cut it short, but even still, the length is simply too much for one sitting.
None of these reasons are because I think the albums are bad mind you. :tup
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I know that it's not the focus on this thread, but anybody here knows (or listened to) if the 2009 japanese shm remasters of WDADU and I&W have improved the audio quality of these albuns? In I&W case, I'm talking about specifically the drum sound, of course. Thanks!
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I'm pretty sure it's using the same masters, so it will sound the same.
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I thought that SHM CD was similar to HD flacs that it's necessary a new mastering. Thanks!
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Neither of them require a new master, we've just been lucky they used more dynamic masters for the HDTracks versions of the DT albums (except I think The Astonishing since it was more dynamic to begin with).
SHMs are no different to regular CDs, it's just marketing really.
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Thanks again, Blob, really good to know that. :tup
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the entire thread would be pointless.
It is.
Agreed.
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WDADU is a little unlistenable only because I know that When Dream and Day Re-Unite exists. great live rendition of the album, a really great Metropolis Part I and Charlie Dominici and Derek Sherinian make guest appearances. It's not the best sounding live album but it sounds a heck of a lot better than Breaking The Fourth Wall. I don't understand why they completely ignore that album now-adays. It wasn't included on the Greatest Hit... album and they excluded it from the Studio Albums collection. It's like if Rush completely excluded Rush from their discography but it's still a great album. People want to hear where this band came from.
I couldn't find any CD's or even any Records for that matter. Why not remaster it and re-release it. Make it sound as good as it possibly can? Now I'm sure there are reasons like, the master tracks were lost so they can't work with that material. But I just feel it's a shame that this album has been glossed over.
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The recordings are owned by a different label to the albums from IaW > Octavarium, so they'll never be included together. DT really have no control over the recordings for WDADU.
Not that I mind. It deserves to be ignored. :biggrin:
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I voted no.
I can certainly rank every one of their albums, but the bottom album isn't bad...it's just not as enjoyable to me as the others.
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Yes.
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WDADU.
I never reach for it.
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No. Even their worst album is great.
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Yes, very sadly the last 2 releases :(