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General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: gmillerdrake on June 20, 2016, 09:59:08 AM
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This show looks like it's going to be amazing. Can't wait!!
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/hbo-teases-new-cowboys-and-robots-series-083013006.html
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Yea, Im excited for this. I never saw the movie it's based on but have read here and there about the production of this and it sounds massive. Also a huge orgy scene keeps being talked about when I read anything regarding this show :lol
The teaser trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM8HNuRLIBI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM8HNuRLIBI)
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It definitely looks fantastic, but I know that there were massive problems on set which led to production being shut down.
If it is actually on the schedule now, I guess they got their shit together.
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I enjoyed the movie! Can't to see how this will turn out
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Looking good indeed!
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Tomorrow Night :metal Really hoping that this show is a good one.....indications thus far (trailers/reviews) seem to point in that direction.
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I haven't read or heard anything about it or the movie, but I've seen the teasers while watching my other HBO shows, and it looks awesome. I'll definitely check it out sometime in the coming week.
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From what I read online HBO seem to be priming this show as their follow-up big budget show to game of thrones. Hopefully the hype is justified.
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From what I read online HBO seem to be priming this show as their follow-up big budget show to game of thrones. Hopefully the hype is justified.
Based on having seen the original movie and the trailers, I don't know that it can be all that. I'll probably check it out anyway though.
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From what I read online HBO seem to be priming this show as their follow-up big budget show to game of thrones. Hopefully the hype is justified.
100 Million spent, yea they expect big things.
I plan on checking it out
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Off to a good start. The most interesting character for me moving forward is Ed Harris' Gunslinger....who, if you've seen the original film, the origins are a bit different...
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Definitely enjoyed the first episode.
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Eh. It started off good, but it really lost me in the last 20 minutes or so, pretty much after it got to that bizarre use of music (was it Rolling Stones?). I liked the twist on the gunslinger, and I feel like they set it up that up intentionally for the people who have seen the movie. He's the only character I'm interested in at this point. I feel like some other aspects of the movie they incorporated here weren't too well explained (yet) though, so I'm glad I've seen the movie for some background. By the end it started to get a bit more predictable and pseudo-intellectual.
I might give this one more episode to convince me, but at the moment I don't see myself continuing with it for long.
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It did enough to keep me interested. Neat concept.
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Eh. It started off good, but it really lost me in the last 20 minutes or so, pretty much after it got to that bizarre use of music (was it Rolling Stones?).
Yes, it was "Paint it Black." I was more surprised earlier in the episode when they were playing "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden, but I agree that the music was really jarring during that particular scene.
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Eh. It started off good, but it really lost me in the last 20 minutes or so, pretty much after it got to that bizarre use of music (was it Rolling Stones?).
Yes, it was "Paint it Black." I was more surprised earlier in the episode when they were playing "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden, but I agree that the music was really jarring during that particular scene.
Surprised I missed that one, I guess it's been too long since I've properly listened to it to have noticed it. Do you remember what part of the episode it was?
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Eh. It started off good, but it really lost me in the last 20 minutes or so, pretty much after it got to that bizarre use of music (was it Rolling Stones?).
Yes, it was "Paint it Black." I was more surprised earlier in the episode when they were playing "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden, but I agree that the music was really jarring during that particular scene.
Surprised I missed that one, I guess it's been too long since I've properly listened to it to have noticed it. Do you remember what part of the episode it was?
Don't remember what part, but it was being played on the piano in the saloon.
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Eh. It started off good, but it really lost me in the last 20 minutes or so, pretty much after it got to that bizarre use of music (was it Rolling Stones?).
Yes, it was "Paint it Black." I was more surprised earlier in the episode when they were playing "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden, but I agree that the music was really jarring during that particular scene.
Surprised I missed that one, I guess it's been too long since I've properly listened to it to have noticed it. Do you remember what part of the episode it was?
Don't remember what part, but it was being played on the piano in the saloon.
Shit, as soon as you mentioned that, I remember the bit instantly. I honestly recall thinking how out of style that piano music was for the period with that weird chord progression and figured they'd intentionally made it anachronistic because it was so far in the future that they had no clue.
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I wasn't blown away by the first episode. Other than the cursing and nudity it didn't really feel like an HBO show. But there are some interesting things going on so I'm not giving up. It was still a good episode.
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Yea the first episode didn't much for me either, more questions than answers but I knew hardly anything about this show before watching so I have to give it some time to sink in.
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Watched episode 1 last night. Fucking loved it. I never knew a movie or book existed until I read through this thread, so I'm going into this 100% blind. I like the concept. I like the score. The characters are cool. I feel like there's a million ways they could take this. It feels fresh.
Dolores interests me. There's something not right with her as she lied to the guy interviewing her in the interrogation room (whether intentionally or not). The guy asked "Have you ever questioned your reality?" and she responded with a "no". That's not an accurate answer as that little boy down by the lake said something like "You're one of them, you're not real". She dismissed him pretty quickly, but even that would still count as questioning it, no? Speaking of that scene, the little boy made his statement and she immediately pivoted to "I have to be going now" without even really acknowledging his statement directly. I'm wondering if there is a built in protocol for these hosts to recognize a question or statement like that and to bail before they ponder on it too much. That could also explain why her dad kind of freaked out when looking at the photo. There could be programming to help them cope during a discussion of a different reality, but there might not be any programming or protocol when one of the hosts actually sees an alternate reality. The programmers may not have thought to account for a scenario like that. Maybe I'm thinking too much into it.
So what are these hosts exactly? Are they fully animatronic, or is there some biological element to them as well? I get that they have "blood", but that could be red CPU coolant for all I know.
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I think Hopkins character knows exactly what he's doing and is intentionally trying to give them actual 'life' or a soul so to speak.
Brian I'm the same as you, I've never read the book or watched the old movie so this is a fresh look for me as well. I also agree about the possibilities for the show....very curious.
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I'm assuming he's working with the government to make surrogate soldiers.
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I'm assuming he's working with the government to make surrogate soldiers.
Given his age, and scene reminiscing with the older model android, I expect his motivation is more personal and deep than that.
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I'm assuming he's working with the government to make surrogate soldiers.
Given his age, and scene reminiscing with the older model android, I expect his motivation is more personal and deep than that.
Recreate a dead wife or girlfriend?
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I'm assuming he's working with the government to make surrogate soldiers.
Given his age, and scene reminiscing with the older model android, I expect his motivation is more personal and deep than that.
Recreate a dead wife or girlfriend?
Possible, although that would be far too cliche for me, and the scope of his updates seems too broad for such a specific goal. Perhaps something to do with achieving immortality (although again, very cliche), or another goal related to pushing AI sentience, but I don't think there's enough depth of information to speculate too hard at this point.
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I'm assuming he's working with the government to make surrogate soldiers.
Given his age, and scene reminiscing with the older model android, I expect his motivation is more personal and deep than that.
Recreate a dead wife or girlfriend?
Possible, although that would be far too cliche for me, and the scope of his updates seems too broad for such a specific goal. Perhaps something to do with achieving immortality (although again, very cliche), or another goal related to pushing AI sentience, but I don't think there's enough depth of information to speculate too hard at this point.
I was thinking along the 'pushing AI to sentience' line. Perhaps there is a bit of underlying guilt for the countless horrific abuses they've suffered over the many years and giving them actual 'life' could be his way of apologizing and making things right?
But you're right Blob....anything at this point is pure speculation being there is little to go off of.
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Along the thought process of horrific abuses, I think that's perhaps the very point. He's created a world for humans to indulge in things they wouldn't/couldn't normally do, raw human nature, sex, violence etc. Despite the fact these androids aren't supposed to remember anything, they've been storing long term memories without access to them, and after the most recent update have been able to do so, and are now displaying more human qualities. That's possibly not unintentional, perhaps that was the update, and the intended next stage of their evolution. The old dude seems very curious about how they're progressing as part of some experiment.
And old papa bot is now questioning his existence and the nature of good vs evil, and quotes a line from Romeo and Juliet. But again, I don't think they've given us enough in one episode to know how it's all supposed to fit together, since it's the major arc of the show.
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Delores' father almost looked like he was on the verge of tears as they walked him into that naked storage area. I imagine that won't be the last time we see him. I'm willing to bet that at some point all of those in storage eventually start moving around. We know that guy in the body bag can still make some sense of things.
They also showed that cooling issue with all the flooding water when they took the elevator down. I'm curious to see how that plays out.
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Finally caught the debut.
I really liked it. Can't wait to see what happens.
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Loved it! Just what I needed to see from HBO.
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I'm with Chino, I fucking loved the first episode. I'm going into it blind and enjoyed that episode tremendously. The show's style is kinda like Black Mirror which I love and can't wait for next episode because I too think the possibilities are endless.
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Went and visited my mom last night and we ended up watching this (she's onboard) for the second time. Caught some little things the second time around that I hadn't noticed the first time. One thing that I'm really surprised I missed; in Delores' interview at the end, she starts freaking out in the room and the guy gives the voice command to disable her emotions. When he asks her the last question, something like "What do you think of your world?", she ignores the emotion cancelling command and puts a huge smile on her face before giving her answer. Also, she appeared to look more worn down each time she woke up.
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2nd Episode is up early on HBO streaming right now!!! awesome to be working from home today!
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2nd Episode is up early on HBO streaming right now!!! awesome to be working from home today!
(https://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/000/063/Picture_2_c.jpg)
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2nd Episode is up early on HBO streaming right now!!! awesome to be working from home today!
Cool, I will try to catch it this afternoon!
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Went and visited my mom last night and we ended up watching this (she's onboard) for the second time. Caught some little things the second time around that I hadn't noticed the first time. One thing that I'm really surprised I missed; in Delores' interview at the end, she starts freaking out in the room and the guy gives the voice command to disable her emotions. When he asks her the last question, something like "What do you think of your world?", she ignores the emotion cancelling command and puts a huge smile on her face before giving her answer. Also, she appeared to look more worn down each time she woke up.
I also just wanted to add that I didn't think of until just now, is that Delores is asked if she would ever harm a living thing and she says never. The episode ends with her swatting and killing a fly. This show is great so far and I really hope they keep it that way.
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Another awesome episode, brilliantly layered. I think I need to watch it a few more times, I could tell there were a ton of things I missed.
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I enjoyed this episode less than the first one.
I like the parts where it shows the iterations on each time the androids go through the same scenarios, reflecting what has happened to them inbetween. That has been a staple of both episodes so far. Even then, it seems to approach it from the same overly human perspective that most science fiction tends to go with, and is a little light for me.
On the human side of it, I find it very dull so far. The gunslinger's story is on the verge of turning into a western version of Lost, a story currently propped up by little more than mystery for the sake of mystery at this point. I hope they give that some depth fast. And the more they show of the park, the more poorly managed and improbable it feels as a setting.
The only character I'm interested in after this episode is the park owner. Anthony Hopkins plays the part really well.
Also, this episode started off more like the movie, being approached from the visitor's perspective as they arrive.
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The human side is where it's really interesting for me. I'm going to stay away from theories and such because that almost always ruins big reveals or plot points. I'll let the mystery unravel itself. And MIB has more intrigue to me now than before.
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Really dug this second episode. This show is tracking well for me at the moment.
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Im going to try to watch the second episode tonight, but only finished the first episode late last night. I really am intrigued by this. I am not familiar with the original so this is all new to me. Took me a rewatch of the first 30 minutes to fully understand what was actually going on. It's like Red Dead Redemption in a real life simulation. The talk about how the creators, the investors, and the customers all have different goals seems like a legit problem that's going to brew through the season as it seems the creator guy really has some different motives with the updates and emotions he is creating. Acting was superb in this. I also can't wait to find out what Ed Harris' character is trying to figure out. Part of me thinks he is trying to break the game in some way, but why?
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Two episodes in and I think it's a great series so far. Acting is superb and it offers enough surprises to leave you guessing.
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I really liked the second episode. Seeing the differences in attitude between those two friends was interesting. I felt so bad for the host that got the knife through his hand at dinner. I wonder if that treasure he was talking about has anything to do with the thing Harrison is after?
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Now this is more like it. I wasn't quite sure what to think about the premiere, but I really enjoyed the second episode.
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I really liked the second episode. Seeing the differences in attitude between those two friends was interesting. I felt so bad for the host that got the knife through his hand at dinner. I wonder if that treasure he was talking about has anything to do with the thing Harrison is after?
Possibly but I think it's more just one of the generic storylines for any guest that wants to go on an adventure.
I'm really fascinated by this show and while I think the way they portrayed the rules of the game/world was a little chaotic and hard to follow I think I get the gist of what's going on. Can't wait for more.
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I really liked the second episode. Seeing the differences in attitude between those two friends was interesting. I felt so bad for the host that got the knife through his hand at dinner. I wonder if that treasure he was talking about has anything to do with the thing Harrison is after?
Possibly but I think it's more just one of the generic storylines for any guest that wants to go on an adventure.
I thought that initially, but now I am not so sure. That could be part of the "game". Everyone goes to this fantasy world where they can do anything. People get violent, horny, manipulative... basically behaving in all the ways they can't (shouldn't) in normal society. They take it out on the hosts, using them to fulfil their darkest desires. Look at the guy and his wife who were posing with the corpses in the standup coffins after the shootout, they were smiling and laughing at the aftermath of one of them shooting a host through the neck. In this place, the basic rules of society seem to break down to a degree in the minds of the visitors. People stop being kind as they see no need and they lose themselves. Maybe those who retain a true sense of humility in the park, even for the fake hosts (old guy with an eye patch falling in the mud), get rewarded with treasure and other adventures that other visitors are never offered because they become assholes.
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In some ways I'm regretting watching the show this soon as it's very hard to wait for each episode on a week to week basis. I kinda wish I had just binged watched it at the end of the season. I do like how each episode seems to have it's own arc while still providing plenty of intrigue about the world itself.
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I really liked the second episode. Seeing the differences in attitude between those two friends was interesting. I felt so bad for the host that got the knife through his hand at dinner. I wonder if that treasure he was talking about has anything to do with the thing Harrison is after?
Possibly but I think it's more just one of the generic storylines for any guest that wants to go on an adventure.
I thought that initially, but now I am not so sure. That could be part of the "game". Everyone goes to this fantasy world where they can do anything. People get violent, horny, manipulative... basically behaving in all the ways they can't (shouldn't) in normal society. They take it out on the hosts, using them to fulfil their darkest desires. Look at the guy and his wife who were posing with the corpses in the standup coffins after the shootout, they were smiling and laughing at the aftermath of one of them shooting a host through the neck. In this place, the basic rules of society seem to break down to a degree in the minds of the visitors. People stop being kind as they see no need and they lose themselves. Maybe those who retain a true sense of humility in the park, even for the fake hosts (old guy with an eye patch falling in the mud), get rewarded with treasure and other adventures that other visitors are never offered because they become assholes.
Oh I definitely agree the treasure could be part of some adventure I just don't think it has anything to do with what the MIB is trying to find. It's just a "side quest" if you will.
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MY THEORY - SPOILERS (I posted this on reddit and copypasta'd to here)
My knowledge of Westworld is strictly limited to these two episodes of the show. I haven't seen the movie or watched any production interviews or anything. I'm going to have to re-watch the first two episodes to build on/reaffirm this, but here goes:
Dr. Ford mentioned that the human race is as good as it gets. I believe he also mentioned either immortality or bringing back the dead; I don't really remember, hence the necessary re-watch. In pursuit of immortality, he's constantly making the hosts more human-like (despite Lee's objections) so that the transfer of consciousness will be seamless.
In order for the entire world to not take notice, he'd have to sneak in these behaviors to all hosts by way of universal updates: reveries. I believe Theresa and Jeffrey are both in on this, and they're helping him accomplish this. If Ford's consciousness is to be transferred, reveries are exactly what he will need in order to be truly human. I also believe that we saw his intended vessel: the British boy.
As other redditors have pointed out, the maze seems remarkably similar to the complex where Dr. Ford oversees the creation of the hosts. I think the maze might be a path for hosts to escape the park unnoticed, so that future Dr. Ford can leave the park with his vessel and not stir up any fuss. I also believe the church is the entrance point to said maze.
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I really liked the second episode. Seeing the differences in attitude between those two friends was interesting. I felt so bad for the host that got the knife through his hand at dinner. I wonder if that treasure he was talking about has anything to do with the thing Harrison is after?
Possibly but I think it's more just one of the generic storylines for any guest that wants to go on an adventure.
I thought that initially, but now I am not so sure. That could be part of the "game". Everyone goes to this fantasy world where they can do anything. People get violent, horny, manipulative... basically behaving in all the ways they can't (shouldn't) in normal society. They take it out on the hosts, using them to fulfil their darkest desires. Look at the guy and his wife who were posing with the corpses in the standup coffins after the shootout, they were smiling and laughing at the aftermath of one of them shooting a host through the neck. In this place, the basic rules of society seem to break down to a degree in the minds of the visitors. People stop being kind as they see no need and they lose themselves. Maybe those who retain a true sense of humility in the park, even for the fake hosts (old guy with an eye patch falling in the mud), get rewarded with treasure and other adventures that other visitors are never offered because they become assholes.
Oh I definitely agree the treasure could be part of some adventure I just don't think it has anything to do with what the MIB is trying to find. It's just a "side quest" if you will.
But it almost seems like MIB is doing his own side quest as well, one that is buried deep in the game. But I agree, it likely wasn't the same side quest since it doesn't seem to be openly offered (whatever MIB is doing). Just my thought. I need to rewatch the 2nd episode because there is so much detail.
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I watched the trailer for this show for the first time last night. Definitely changed my idea of what's going on. At one point, Ford says something like "Everything here, I created" while looking over the huge landscape, and we've heard "layers" many times now. We've seen a church that's buried, and a facility with a storage area 84 floors underground. I'm wondering if there have been several itterations of this park over time, literally being layered one on top of the other.
That little girl said "Follow the Blood Arroyo (red river) to the place where the snake lays its eggs." as a clue to find the maze's entrance. We saw the snake with Ford by that buried steeple. Ford shut down that new narrative "Odyssey on the Red River" almost immediately. I think that narrative would have taken guests to that area, and Ford is trying to keep it relatively secret.
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MY THEORY - SPOILERS (I posted this on reddit and copypasta'd to here)
My knowledge of Westworld is strictly limited to these two episodes of the show. I haven't seen the movie or watched any production interviews or anything. I'm going to have to re-watch the first two episodes to build on/reaffirm this, but here goes:
Dr. Ford mentioned that the human race is as good as it gets. I believe he also mentioned either immortality or bringing back the dead; I don't really remember, hence the necessary re-watch. In pursuit of immortality, he's constantly making the hosts more human-like (despite Lee's objections) so that the transfer of consciousness will be seamless.
In order for the entire world to not take notice, he'd have to sneak in these behaviors to all hosts by way of universal updates: reveries. I believe Theresa and Jeffrey are both in on this, and they're helping him accomplish this. If Ford's consciousness is to be transferred, reveries are exactly what he will need in order to be truly human. I also believe that we saw his intended vessel: the British boy.
As other redditors have pointed out, the maze seems remarkably similar to the complex where Dr. Ford oversees the creation of the hosts. I think the maze might be a path for hosts to escape the park unnoticed, so that future Dr. Ford can leave the park with his vessel and not stir up any fuss. I also believe the church is the entrance point to said maze.
very cool theory indeed..... :tup
I watched the trailer for this show for the first time last night. Definitely changed my idea of what's going on. At one point, Ford says something like "Everything here, I created" while looking over the huge landscape, and we've heard "layers" many times now. We've seen a church that's buried, and a facility with a storage area 84 floors underground. I'm wondering if there have been several itterations of this park over time, literally being layered one on top of the other.
That little girl said "Follow the Blood Arroyo (red river) to the place where the snake lays its eggs." as a clue to find the maze's entrance. We saw the snake with Ford by that buried steeple. Ford shut down that new narrative "Odyssey on the Red River" almost immediately. I think that narrative would have taken guests to that area, and Ford is trying to keep it relatively secret.
Right on Brian....
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I watched the trailer for this show for the first time last night. Definitely changed my idea of what's going on. At one point, Ford says something like "Everything here, I created" while looking over the huge landscape, and we've heard "layers" many times now. We've seen a church that's buried, and a facility with a storage area 84 floors underground. I'm wondering if there have been several itterations of this park over time, literally being layered one on top of the other.
That little girl said "Follow the Blood Arroyo (red river) to the place where the snake lays its eggs." as a clue to find the maze's entrance. We saw the snake with Ford by that buried steeple. Ford shut down that new narrative "Odyssey on the Red River" almost immediately. I think that narrative would have taken guests to that area, and Ford is trying to keep it relatively secret.
Right on Brian....
I just rewatched with my coworker during lunch today and totally agree. Those scenes are also back to back and when Ford shoes the snake away, he shoes it towards the steeple.
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Caught the first two episodes yesterday and really enjoyed them (never see the movie or read the book). Curious to see where the season goes.
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When the MiB finds Lawrence, whom apparently knows the location of the maze, he's being hung in a secluded area where no other visitors have ventured. So this guy gets hung every morning. Do you think this was a way Ford is hiding the maze, by each day killing the guy who knows how to get there? We know he gets the info from his daughter, but it starts with Lawrence.
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And the apparent buried church... It's been mentioned that it could be part of a previous iteration of the park. But, Ford shows it to Lowe, and it seems that it's part of his new, "quite original" storyline.
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Another great episode, this was a bit slower but again plenty of layers being shown. I'll need to rewatch the entire series I'm sure I've missed several nuances and clues.
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I think I'm done with this show now. 3 episodes in, and I just find almost nothing entertaining about it. By the last 10 minutes, the episode arc was painfully predictable, and it continues to offer little besides mild curiosity for the rest, with no genuine depth. The flashback with the backstory for the park was the only part of this episode I found interesting, but it's nowhere near enough to compel me to watch more. The story behind the AI's behaviour is coming together, but their portrayal of the androids bothers me so much at this point that I just don't care to see what happens.
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Last night's was my least favorite episode, but the storyline is opening up and this "Arnold" character is opening up some more details that makes the storyline a bit more confusing since I'm still not sure of everyone's motives.
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You guys are crazy. This was easily the best episode yet.
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I've been enjoying the show greatly. I like the mystery behind Hopkins character and the park itself. I find the 'memories' that the Hosts are having interesting...because it seems like they are being set up to gain their own 'self' or consciousness.
The whisper at the end where Delores was aiming the gun but couldn't pull the trigger but then heard someone say 'shoot him'....could that be Arnold? The story that Hopkins character told about him no longer being alive and that he died seemed fishy....I think intentionally so....to where it's plausible he didn't die and perhaps is still in the park somewhere? IDK
Anyway....all in all I have no issues with the show and have been entertained by it thus far.
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I can't wait to rewatch the whole season again start to finish once the story wraps up. I'm crossing my fingers it doesn't go into existential territory like Lost(not that it's a bad thing). Next week I'm most likely going to be watching this show rather than the TWD premiere. Westworld has been amazing so far and last night's episode is being dissected with immense glee on reddit but I don't want to delve into it just yet.
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I can't wait to rewatch the whole season again start to finish once the story wraps up. I'm crossing my fingers it doesn't go into existential territory like Lost(not that it's a bad thing). Next week I'm most likely going to be watching this show rather than the TWD premiere. Westworld has been amazing so far and last night's episode is being dissected with immense glee on reddit but I don't want to delve into it just yet.
Last night my brother was like "Can you stop recording one of these two so I can watch TV?" and it was Westworld and Walking Dead. I'll be doing the same next week, cancel Walking Dead.
While I stated last night was my least favorite, I am still very much enjoying and deeply intrigued by the show. So much mystery about what happened in the past and what the current character's motives are. The show hinted at this in the beginning, the people in the game, management, and investors all have different agendas, but what are they?
Also, could MiB be Arnold? Is that possible?
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Also, could MiB be Arnold? Is that possible?
I don't think so. If anything about Arnold's story was true, it feels like he would be treating the hosts differently. But maybe the story was bullshit, I don't know.
Also, did we see Arnold in the flashbacks? I don't remember.
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I thought the third episode was awesome. I liked it a lot. I dozed off for about 6 minutes toward the end and woke up with the Man in Black in the barn with Delores. I'm going to have to rewatch it.
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Also, could MiB be Arnold? Is that possible?
I don't think so. If anything about Arnold's story was true, it feels like he would be treating the hosts differently. But maybe the story was bullshit, I don't know.
Also, did we see Arnold in the flashbacks? I don't remember.
He's in the photo with young Ford in the office exposition scene. Dude looks nothing like Ed Harris.
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I thought the third episode was awesome. I liked it a lot. I dozed off for about 6 minutes toward the end and woke up with the Man in Black in the barn with Delores. I'm going to have to rewatch it.
Really liking the show but I've also dowsed off at the end of every episode so far. Not because of the episode but because this is typically the second show we watch and it being an hour is tough on a work night.
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I thought the third episode was awesome. I liked it a lot. I dozed off for about 6 minutes toward the end and woke up with the Man in Black in the barn with Delores. I'm going to have to rewatch it.
Really liking the show but I've also dowsed off at the end of every episode so far. Not because of the episode but because this is typically the second show we watch and it being an hour is tough on a work night.
We started it at 10:15 last night after shoveling nine types of meat into our faces at a Brazilian steakhouse. Food coma was in full effect :lol.
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Another great episode, hard to concentrate after watching TWD premiere but loving the unveiling of doubt the hosts get with each episode.
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I'm starting to think that William and the Man in Black are the same person. They've never established that they are there at the same time. The deliberate choice William made and attention they paid to him picking a hat color. How intimate William and Delores are getting and the suggestion from MIB to Delores they once were.
Could be a neat curveball.
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Really good episode. I especially liked the scene between Hopkins and that lady at the country house restaurant thing.
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Really good episode. I especially liked the scene between Hopkins and that lady at the country house restaurant thing.
That was an awesome scene. Hopkins is classic Hopkins in this....such a great actor.
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Best show on HBO
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Really good episode. I especially liked the scene between Hopkins and that lady at the country house restaurant thing.
That was an awesome scene. Hopkins is classic Hopkins in this....such a great actor.
Agreed. His acting in that scene was AMAZING.
Also, loved that episode.
So the maze leads to a game in Westworld where you can die. It appears Arnold created this game and might have died while playing it?
Also, the motives of everyone are starting to peel open, but slowly.
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So this show is worth my time?
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So this show is worth my time?
yes
Looks like Blob might be the only one in this thread who would say no.
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So this show is worth my time?
Yup. So far, anyway.
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So this show is worth my time?
Unless you are Australian.
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So this show is worth my time?
Unless you are Australian.
:rollin
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:lol
Right, starting now...
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I'm starting to think that William and the Man in Black are the same person. They've never established that they are there at the same time. The deliberate choice William made and attention they paid to him picking a hat color. How intimate William and Delores are getting and the suggestion from MIB to Delores they once were.
Could be a neat curveball.
The Head Security/Maintenance guy has declared that MiB "gets whatever he wants", as well as okaying the charges, and also checked in on Delores when she's on the bounty hunt with William.
And I'm a little confused. Wyatt seemed to be a new conception of Ford's and part of his new narrative. We saw him upload the back story to Teddy. When MiB finds the Snake Woman, she said the head of the sneak is Wyatt. MiB takes that as the clue he was searching for, which would mean that the girl that sent him down the Blood Arroyo also knew about Wyatt, and he's somehow connected to the maze. Ford said that his new narrative was original, and not a retrospective. Is Wyatt a new host, or does he have a deeper connection to the park?
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Solid first episode, I'm in.
I'll come back to the conversation when I'm caught up.
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The last episode was my favorite of the season by far. I'm wondering if the gods of the underworld story that the native's have was created by them or planted by Ford.
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The Head Security/Maintenance guy has declared that MiB "gets whatever he wants", as well as okaying the charges, and also checked in on Delores when she's on the bounty hunt with William.
Yeah...true. I guess the only way my theory would work would be is if those employees are hosts as well?
And I'm a little confused. Wyatt seemed to be a new conception of Ford's and part of his new narrative. We saw him upload the back story to Teddy. When MiB finds the Snake Woman, she said the head of the sneak is Wyatt. MiB takes that as the clue he was searching for, which would mean that the girl that sent him down the Blood Arroyo also knew about Wyatt, and he's somehow connected to the maze. Ford said that his new narrative was original, and not a retrospective. Is Wyatt a new host, or does he have a deeper connection to the park?
Maybe Wyatt has always been a part of the park and Ford just dolls out the knowledge of his existence to certain hosts when the 'story' calls for it?
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Holy shit what an amazing episode the last one was! Definitely my favorite so far, this show keeps getting better and better. Still not delving into all the theories, keeping out of all that and enjoying the crap out of each episode for now.
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Yea really enjoyed that episode as well. The inclusion of maybe corporate espionage is interesting.
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Another really solid episode this week. The church we saw bunch of in the background is throwing me for a loop, as well as Lawrence being in a completely different role. It's really starting to look like we're seeing two different story/timelines. I know this has been floated a bunch, but last episode was the most convincing reason IMO.
I also think that Dolores had a large role in Arnold's death based on the interaction that she and Ford had. I'm thinking Bill (old drinking buddy in storage) was Ford's best attempt at a host, and Dolores was Arnold's.
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It's really starting to look like we're seeing two different story/timelines. I know this has been floated a bunch, but last episode was the most convincing reason IMO.
I also think that Dolores had a large role in Arnold's death based on the interaction that she and Ford had. I'm thinking Bill (old drinking buddy in storage) was Ford's best attempt at a host, and Dolores was Arnold's.
Yeah....I know there are some continuity issues as far as some of the workers referencing both timelines...but that could be explained away by the workers simply being hosts. This episode seemed to lend more suspicion that the two stories we are seeing are years apart.
Dolores is clearly 'the' connection to everything that's going on but it's tough to pinpoint exactly just yet....and that's pretty cool that it keeps us guessing in a good, constructive way. Not a WTF or WHY way..
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It's really starting to look like we're seeing two different story/timelines. I know this has been floated a bunch, but last episode was the most convincing reason IMO.
Good article on that theory.....if you're not into Fan Theory type talk then don't read....
https://collider.com/westworld-man-in-black-theory-explained/#dolores
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I hate people.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/11/01/westworlds-four-minute-orgy-scene-leaves-some-viewers-outraged.html
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I didn't read the fan theory, but I also got the impression that the events are sperate timelines. But, there's a couple problems with that. Mainly, the head Security guy Ashley (he's a Hemsworth), who has done nothing but talk about how the hosts can't be fully trusted, it's only one line of code that stops them from killing people, stuff like that. Highly unlikely he is a host.
And then there's the Delores story. She's obviously changing before and while on this quest with William. But, is that happening at the same time as her meetings with Bernard, and now Ford? It seems unlikely that she could have changed that much in the past, and then again in the current. Plus, there's the Ashley connection, where he referenced MiB and Delores while she was with William.
As for Lawrence, the last we see him with MiB, he's left hanging upside down and the kid is told that someone will be along shortly for him. Maybe he was cleaned up, and put back out at the starting point of his narrative. Maybe MiB saved him from the noose at a point further along in Lawrence's narrative.
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I hate people.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/11/01/westworlds-four-minute-orgy-scene-leaves-some-viewers-outraged.html
That scene was nothing compared to countless other scenes from countless other shows....it was actually 'tame' IMO. I don't get it...yet I do. People are offended by any and everything these days as if there is such a thing as a right not to be offended.
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If they're offended why are they watching HBO? And I agree it was tame and was only supposed to be a background to the character stories. It wasn't Caligula.
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I hate people.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/11/01/westworlds-four-minute-orgy-scene-leaves-some-viewers-outraged.html
That scene was nothing compared to countless other scenes from countless other shows....it was actually 'tame' IMO. I don't get it...yet I do. People are offended by any and everything these days as if there is such a thing as a right not to be offended.
That scene didn't even phase me. Like it didn't even register as an orgy until I read this article. The stairwell rape seen in The Sopranos (also HBO) was significantly more uncomfortable and harder to watch than anything on WW so far.
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I hate people.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/11/01/westworlds-four-minute-orgy-scene-leaves-some-viewers-outraged.html
That scene was nothing compared to countless other scenes from countless other shows....it was actually 'tame' IMO. I don't get it...yet I do. People are offended by any and everything these days as if there is such a thing as a right not to be offended.
That scene didn't even phase me. Like it didn't even register as an orgy until I read this article. The stairwell rape seen in The Sopranos (also HBO) was significantly more uncomfortable and harder to watch than anything on WW so far.
Ramsay raping Sansa in GOT....or, any GOT sex scene.....you could cite ten examples that were way more explicit from GOT's alone. It's just something to complain about. Like the people that were complaining about TWD and the brutality of Negan's kills. It's not as if that was a big surprise..EVERYONE tuned in to see who's brain Negan was going to bash to bits.
This culture and this country are on my last nerve....
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I hate people.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/11/01/westworlds-four-minute-orgy-scene-leaves-some-viewers-outraged.html
That scene was nothing compared to countless other scenes from countless other shows....it was actually 'tame' IMO. I don't get it...yet I do. People are offended by any and everything these days as if there is such a thing as a right not to be offended.
That scene didn't even phase me. Like it didn't even register as an orgy until I read this article. The stairwell rape seen in The Sopranos (also HBO) was significantly more uncomfortable and harder to watch than anything on WW so far.
I had read about this scene a long time ago as some news broke about the casting calls for it and it seemed like it was going to be way worse than it actually was. I think the Starz show Spartacus was way worse, plus I don't think it was anything out of the ordinary for HBO.
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Fantastic episode again, btw.
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Another great episode.
I'm not yet convinced about the two timelines, at least not two timelines as far apart from each other as in most theories I've seen. We'll see.
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Another great episode.
I'm not yet convinced about the two timelines, at least not two timelines as far apart from each other as in most theories I've seen. We'll see.
I'm not sold nor can I deny them just yet. I think it's interesting to think about. I love how this show is just slowly developing. Half way through the season and I still feel like there is so much to uncover.
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What was the significance of the scene with the novice coder and the bird? They spent a good couple of minutes focussed on that. Only thing I can think of is that the bird attacked a human outside of a narrative.
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What was the significance of the scene with the novice coder and the bird? They spent a good couple of minutes focussed on that. Only thing I can think of is that the bird attacked a human outside of a narrative.
That and it seems that novice coder is getting the idea that something is wrong too. He knows he put the prostitute host into sleep and she didnt stay asleep. The other guy doesn't believe him, but Im guessing this guy may make a discovery since he knows something is up.
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Another great episode.
I'm not yet convinced about the two timelines, at least not two timelines as far apart from each other as in most theories I've seen. We'll see.
I'm not sold nor can I deny them just yet. I think it's interesting to think about. I love how this show is just slowly developing. Half way through the season and I still feel like there is so much to uncover.
Watch this explanation of the dual timeline theory and you'll be more convinced than ever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLli7Gc1ZBU
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Another great episode.
I'm not yet convinced about the two timelines, at least not two timelines as far apart from each other as in most theories I've seen. We'll see.
I'm not sold nor can I deny them just yet. I think it's interesting to think about. I love how this show is just slowly developing. Half way through the season and I still feel like there is so much to uncover.
Watch this explanation of the dual timeline theory and you'll be more convinced than ever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLli7Gc1ZBU
Wow yea the logo changing is a huge sign that I didn't notice.
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Another great episode.
I'm not yet convinced about the two timelines, at least not two timelines as far apart from each other as in most theories I've seen. We'll see.
I'm not sold nor can I deny them just yet. I think it's interesting to think about. I love how this show is just slowly developing. Half way through the season and I still feel like there is so much to uncover.
Watch this explanation of the dual timeline theory and you'll be more convinced than ever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLli7Gc1ZBU
Wow yea the logo changing is a huge sign that I didn't notice.
The logo change and the consequence of getting shot by a host is pretty compelling evidence....well, and everything else they talk about :lol
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The most recent episodes was one of my favorites thus far. Great all around. When Bernard went down to the old facilities, that alternate logo was next to the login screen... Definitely starting to look like William and Logan are in the past.
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The most recent episodes was one of my favorites thus far. Great all around. When Bernard went down to the old facilities, that alternate logo was next to the login screen... Definitely starting to look like William and Logan are in the past.
There's some creepy stuff going on down in the lower level. The thing is....the Dad that Walter ran into that he called 'Arnold' looks identical to the picture of Arnold that Ford shared with him. So Ford is lying about something. Either that wasn't a picture of Arnold, or he's fabricating the entire Arnold backstory??
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The most recent episodes was one of my favorites thus far. Great all around. When Bernard went down to the old facilities, that alternate logo was next to the login screen... Definitely starting to look like William and Logan are in the past.
There's some creepy stuff going on down in the lower level. The thing is....the Dad that Walter ran into that he called 'Arnold' looks identical to the picture of Arnold that Ford shared with him. So Ford is lying about something. Either that wasn't a picture of Arnold, or he's fabricating the entire Arnold backstory??
Definitely the same guy.
(https://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/343/files/2016/11/qYgPgIG.jpg)
I don't think Ford is "lying". I'm starting to think he's a host who believes he's a human creating these fake beings. The entire intro of the show is dedicated to the idea of artificial life creating more artificial life, and I think that might be exactly what we're seeing.
I don't know what to think about Arnold. Unless Arnold is Ford's father, that's not him in that photograph. Though, I don't think Ford specifically said that was Arnold. We may have just inferred it based on the conversation being had at the time. I bet we find out that Arnold exists in all things within westworld. He uploaded himself into the world and has hard coded himself every host, and he can hop between them and do whatever he chooses.
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Interesting theory on Ford. It very well could be he's AI. Certainly there's more than meets the eye with him as his behavior is very suspect.
There's an interesting theory out there that Ford updated Teddy when he and the MIB met at the cantina to be an 'adversary' to the MIB (that was the name of the episode) and that Teddy is trying to lead the MIB away from the maze. The MIB did ask Ford if he's finally created and adversary worthy of him....meaning Wyatt, but....what if it is Teddy in almost an undercover role?
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Ever been here? I just discovered it for the first time.
https://discoverwestworld.com/#
6B in the Terms of Delos Destinations is interesting.
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Ever been here? I just discovered it for the first time.
https://discoverwestworld.com/#
6B in the Terms of Delos Destinations is interesting.
Just checked it out and realized that's not something I need to do right now...you know, being at work and all. :lol that looks awesome and like you could spend some time there. Gonna re-visit this later. Thanks for the link!! :tup
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Saw a new theory today that the Westworld show is in some way a sequel to the original film. Interesting. Especially since the original Yul Brynner character from the original was, in fact, briefly glimpsed on the most recent episode.
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Saw a new theory today that the Westworld show is in some way a sequel to the original film. Interesting. Especially since the original Yul Brynner character from the original was, in fact, briefly glimpsed on the most recent episode.
Will anything in this show be potentially spoiled by watching the movie? I really want to see it.
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Saw a new theory today that the Westworld show is in some way a sequel to the original film. Interesting. Especially since the original Yul Brynner character from the original was, in fact, briefly glimpsed on the most recent episode.
Will anything in this show be potentially spoiled by watching the movie? I really want to see it.
I don't think so. After all, it's been out since the 70s.
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Saw a new theory today that the Westworld show is in some way a sequel to the original film. Interesting. Especially since the original Yul Brynner character from the original was, in fact, briefly glimpsed on the most recent episode.
Will anything in this show be potentially spoiled by watching the movie? I really want to see it.
I don't think so. After all, it's been out since the 70s.
Yeah I know. I just wasn't sure what the similarities were outside of the overarching concept of the park. If we find out at the end of the movie who Arnold is or what the maze is, I have no desire to watch it until the show wraps up.
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I think the series is a re-imagining or even a sequel to the movie. I could swear I could see Yul Brynner's silhouette in the background in one of the scenes of the last episode.
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I think the series is a re-imagining or even a sequel to the movie. I could swear I could see Yul Brynner's silhouette in the background in one of the scenes of the last episode.
You did. And it was intentional. Question is was it just a 'shout out' or nod to the original show or a clue as to if we are seeing a direct sequel
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So the original movie won't spoil the show if I watch it?
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So the original movie won't spoil the show if I watch it?
I'm not sure and am not gonna risk it.
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So the original movie won't spoil the show if I watch it?
I don't think so.
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No, I seriously don't think the movie holds any spoilers. I'd have to think back pretty far for this, but I just remember it being pretty damn slow. As a reference point it's pretty interesting though.
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I think the series is a re-imagining or even a sequel to the movie. I could swear I could see Yul Brynner's silhouette in the background in one of the scenes of the last episode.
You did. And it was intentional. Question is was it just a 'shout out' or nod to the original show or a clue as to if we are seeing a direct sequel
I missed that. Where and when?
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When Bernard goes 'downstairs'.
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Question is was it just a 'shout out' or nod to the original show or a clue as to if we are seeing a direct sequel
It's a nod, nothing more. Nolan and Joy do a weekly interview with EW following each episode and Nolan explicitly states this.
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Just started watching this show and it's pretty awesome. Can't wait to see what happens next!
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Got back to the US last night where I could finally watch my HBO and really really liked that episode. Definitely got a lot more story into whats going on with the people working at Westworld. That whole sequence where Maeve watches the computer as she "thinks" and it gets hung was awesome. Then of course the insight into Ford and his old robot family in the park... and yea something is not right with him, some good theories there.
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Well, that took a turn.
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Holy fucking shit!
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WOW. :omg:
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Pretty anxious to watch this episode....haven't had a chance yet but judging from the last couple comments I need to do so ASAP!!
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What a shock at the end! Great episode.
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Definitely a cool end to this week's episode. I can't say I was shocked per se, I'd heard that theory bandied about a while back and then I took some of the earlier scenes in the episode to be intentional misdirection.
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And it has been renewed for a 2nd season! :metal
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Happy that it got renewed for a 2nd season, if it's true that they're coming back in 2018 then it's going to be a long fricking wait.
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Now that's what I call an episode, or atleast a fresh twist! :metal
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Very cool episode. Ford is so many steps ahead of everyone. I keep thinking that he will slip up somehow but he remains unstoppable.
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Well, roll me over and fuck me sideways. Best episodes of the series so far. Hands down. That final five minutes opened up so many possibilities. Who knows how many people on the inside Ford has doing his bidding.
If you go here https://discoverwestworld.com/# and read 6B in the Terms of Delos Destinations....
"once you enter Westword, the company controls the rights to and remains the sole owner of, in perpetuity: all skin cells, bodily fluids, secretions, excretions, hair samples, saliva, sweat, blood, and any other bodily functions not listed here. What’s more, it reserves the right to use this property in any way, shape, or form in which the entity sees fit.”
If I were a betting man, I would say that Ford got saliva or vaginal juices from Theresa off of Bernard after one of their sexual encounters. That host that was printing in Ford's basement lab after Bernard killed Theresa is going to be a copy of Theresa. She'll go back to doing her thing and no one that works at or for Westworld will notice. Ford said he needed a blood sacrifice. He's probably going to use real Theresa's blood in the host so she can still pass any kind of biometric security Westworld is likely to have. And Bernard made a comment a few episodes back to Theresa about the specific ways her faced moved when she was angry and trying not to show it. Ford is getting info on every little nuance she has in preparation for her replacement.
Also, Hector being a sex slave to humans overseeing Westworld is an awesome way to hear all kinds of 'closed door' conversations, just like the one we saw. Fucking genius.
One thing I'm still a little confused on, why do the workers sometimes wear suits when entering the world and sometimes not? When they froze the park mid-day in the most recent episode, the employees were dressed head to toe in those suits when they removed Clementine. Also, just occurred to me that just prior to that, she said something like "get out of the desert and go some place cold". My guess is cold storage isn't what she had in mind. And to piggyback this scene a bit, Mauve didn't freeze when all the other hosts did. Strange.
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I thought the same thing, that Ford is creating a Theresa host. Which like you mention Brian, leaves to question how many employees are actually hosts that Ford has swapped out?
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I thought the same thing, that Ford is creating a Theresa host. Which like you mention Brian, leaves to question how many employees are actually hosts that Ford has swapped out?
Is Bernard modeled after Arnold?
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I thought the same thing, that Ford is creating a Theresa host. Which like you mention Brian, leaves to question how many employees are actually hosts that Ford has swapped out?
Is Bernard modeled after Arnold?
He might be a mirror image of him.
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A theory I'm seeing appear is that Bernard is in this picture to the right and can't see himself. It's a stretch, but it does seem like a weird way to take a picture with all that empty space next to Ford's father.
(https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/1811353/size/tmg-article_tall.jpg)
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Hmm...that is interesting. Maybe.
I'm also curious about Ford using the same 'blood sacrifice' line the board member did. Was she in on It with Ford or is that just evidence to suggest his hosts do indeed 'spy' for him?
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Hmm...that is interesting. Maybe.
I'm also curious about Ford using the same 'blood sacrifice' line the board member did. Was she in on It with Ford or is that just evidence to suggest his hosts do indeed 'spy' for him?
I noticed that too. Could easily be either of those things.
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Just had a brain wave in a meeting. Keep an eye out for the name "Weber".
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/320xq90/r/923/gWrDft.jpg)
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A theory I'm seeing appear is that Bernard is in this picture to the right and can't see himself. It's a stretch, but it does seem like a weird way to take a picture with all that empty space next to Ford's father.
(https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/1811353/size/tmg-article_tall.jpg)
Doesn't look like anything to me.
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A theory I'm seeing appear is that Bernard is in this picture to the right and can't see himself. It's a stretch, but it does seem like a weird way to take a picture with all that empty space next to Ford's father.
(https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/1811353/size/tmg-article_tall.jpg)
Doesn't look like anything to me.
:lol
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It's great that people really get into fan theory but personally I feel like it'd drive me crazy since you're essentially creating your own version of a show alongside the actual show at least as far as expectations go. Maybe it got really popular with LOST but I missed out on all the week to week talk for that.
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Just watched the first 2 episodes. I'm already addicted!
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It's great that people really get into fan theory but personally I feel like it'd drive me crazy since you're essentially creating your own version of a show alongside the actual show at least as far as expectations go. Maybe it got really popular with LOST but I missed out on all the week to week talk for that.
It makes it more fun, IMO. Seeing some theories confirmed and other obliterated, it all makes for good conversation and use of the imagination. I never feel like my expectations get hurt because of it. We're just floating 'what ifs' and trying to make the week long wait times a little more bearable.
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I stopped reading theories when I realized that movies or shows no longer surprised me, because I had always seen at least someone predict the way it would go. I no longer felt like I was letting the storytellers take me on a ride, but rather got tired from always feeling like I was trying to out-smart them.
That's just my take on it though. A lot of people really like it, so I'm not complaining about the concept as a whole.
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I stopped reading theories when I realized that movies or shows no longer surprised me, because I had always seen at least someone predict the way it would go. I no longer felt like I was letting the storytellers take me on a ride, but rather got tired from always feeling like I was trying to out-smart them.
I get that. For me, it's the same with spoilers. I get that some people really want them, but to me it definitely takes something away from receiving the story as intended by the storytellers.
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I like discussing theories and whatnot, but not getting too deep into them that I spoil myself. I don't feel like that is any different than just discussing the show with your friends every week (since the theories get thicker or debunked every week).
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I like discussing theories and whatnot, but not getting too deep into them that I spoil myself. I don't feel like that is any different than just discussing the show with your friends every week (since the theories get thicker or debunked every week).
IMO the point of a show like Westworld is the discussion of 'what if's' and the possibilities that are abound in that world/scenario. For me, it doesn't harm my viewing experience exploring certain theories and what not. The more theoretical it gets....just tends to show how good the show is that there are potentially that many stories/scenario's out there.
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I like discussing theories and whatnot, but not getting too deep into them that I spoil myself. I don't feel like that is any different than just discussing the show with your friends every week (since the theories get thicker or debunked every week).
IMO the point of a show like Westworld is the discussion of 'what if's' and the possibilities that are abound in that world/scenario. For me, it doesn't harm my viewing experience exploring certain theories and what not. The more theoretical it gets....just tends to show how good the show is that there are potentially that many stories/scenario's out there.
Yea totally agree. When I watch other shows, I don't really discuss theories because it's not that type of show. This is the type of show you want to discuss and hypothesize. Lost was very much the same way, I used to love coming to the internet to read new theories after episodes.
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I like discussing theories and whatnot, but not getting too deep into them that I spoil myself. I don't feel like that is any different than just discussing the show with your friends every week (since the theories get thicker or debunked every week).
IMO the point of a show like Westworld is the discussion of 'what if's' and the possibilities that are abound in that world/scenario. For me, it doesn't harm my viewing experience exploring certain theories and what not. The more theoretical it gets....just tends to show how good the show is that there are potentially that many stories/scenario's out there.
And for me, I eventually get exposed to so many theories, I don't even remember them. I had discussions about either Ford or Bernard being a host several times early on, and while watching the latest episode and being caught up in the moment, those discussions were far from my mind. Despite that I had pondered on it previously, my head still exploded when Bernard said "what door?".
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I had discussions about either Ford or Bernard being a host several times early on, and while watching the latest episode and being caught up in the moment, those discussions were far from my mind. Despite that I had pondered on it previously, my head still exploded when Bernard said "what door?".
Me to! that was great! Because, in the moment my mind was spinning as to why Bernard had brought her there...what was he going to show her. Sure we found out it was because Ford 'told' him to, but still....in the moment all the theories were out the window so when he said 'what door' it was just as shocking as if Bernard being a host were never suggested or talked about in any theory.
I felt so bad for him when he said 'my poor son'....like he was crushed multiple times...first over the fact that he watched his son die, then when you know he realized he never had a son in the first place. I can't imagine that revelation as I'm sure he had all the 'feels' of having a son programmed into him....then suddenly he doesn't have a son. I know I'd be devastated just learning that.
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I didn't even fully twig at "what door?", though I knew at that point that something was up. For me the penny dropped when he looked at his schematics.
Goddamn this is a good show so far.
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Yeah those last 10-15 minutes of the last episode were amazing. As far as the theories go, I used to do take part in them a lot when Lost was out but never to a ridiculous degree. Nowadays I just step back and watch each episode without any real thought into everything. I know I'm going to enjoy the heck out of rewatching this season.
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I didn't fully realize the twist at "what door" either. Like ariich I knew something was up, but I think I put myself in denial at that point. Like "nah, it's just the show being cheeky". In the end, this twist actually hit me, emotionally. I felt really uneasy for pretty much rest of the day, which just tells you how good this show is so far.
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Yeah, they had me suckered as well. Hopkins is acting the hell out of that scene, though....'Off course, the Peacock isn't really capable of flying....' :hefdaddy
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Yeah Hopkins was awesome in that scene.
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Jeffrey Wright was fantastic in that scene as well, between his initial shock and rejection and then becoming completely emotionless as he carries out Ford's orders. Absolutely chilling.
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Yeah Hopkins was awesome in that scene.
Hopkins has been awesome this whole time. He steals every scene he's in.
Jeffrey Wright was fantastic in that scene as well, between his initial shock and rejection and then becoming completely emotionless as he carries out Ford's orders. Absolutely chilling.
Yeah, that was very well done.
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Theresa genuinely looked, terrified, heartbroken, and defeated all at the same time. Kudos to that actress as well.
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Theresa genuinely looked, terrified, heartbroken, and defeated all at the same time. Kudos to that actress as well.
The scene was all round brilliant, though she hasn't been a particular standout for me. My other favourite cast member so far is probably Thandie Newton. She steals every scene she's in, IMO.
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+1 on the acting props. The whole crew was amazing in that scene.
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+1 on the acting props. The whole crew was amazing in that scene.
it really was a chilling scene.
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This show. I mean, wow. I'm still digesting this episode, especially the last 15 minutes or so.
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Interesting comment from the MIB when he said he was a God, and not just 'in this world'. I take that to mean they are going to stick with the source material and that there are multiple themes/time periods that folks can choose to 'play' in. And, i don't think there's any question we are watching two time periods of a Young and old William.
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As much as I like the show I find it hard to believe that two low level techs would have the ability to assist a host to bypass all of the (what I presume to be) highly complicated coding involved to keep the hosts obedient to their programming like they have Maeve.....and that they/she could parade around the complex in the manner in which they do and not have been discovered yet. Which is why, until proven otherwise, just like in the coup situation with the board....I believe Ford knows about it and is just allowing it to happen, if not the one directly responsible for her behavior changing in the first place.
And along those lines....I'm assuming (until proven otherwise) that Ford is on to Charlotte's latest attempt at stealing the host info. He knows she's the one behind it all so surely he's got an eye or two or three or a dozen on her?
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Interesting comment from the MIB when he said he was a God, and not just 'in this world'. I take that to mean they are going to stick with the source material and that there are multiple themes/time periods that folks can choose to 'play' in.
Pretty sure the line was intended to refer to Westworld vs. the real world, since that was his entire point – wrathful god in WW to express his actual personality, good god in real life but then fallen from grace and looking to die for it in a meaningful way (in the maze).
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Took me way too much time to finally watch the last episode. Between recovering from the Steven Wilson concert on Saturday and a whole bunch of activities on Sunday, I'm simply floored again with this show. Just two more episodes left and that's when I'll read all the theories and watch the entire season again.
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Took me way too much time to finally watch the last episode. Between recovering from the Steven Wilson concert on Saturday and a whole bunch of activities on Sunday, I'm simply floored again with this show. Just two more episodes left and that's when I'll read all the theories and watch the entire season again.
This is a definite 'watch the entire season again' show. There's simply too much info. to digest the first pass. I've re-watched certain scenes a few times...but not entire episodes yet. Perfect example is this last episode. The last 20 minutes there is just a lot to absorb.
Even when Charlotte is walking through that office recruiting Lee to help her steal info all the background screens have the entire narratives, including the one that the MIB is on, open for viewing. there are tons of small details like that every episode that are just impossible to catch the first time. The article below is a good example, no spoilers but just details that are easy to miss:
https://www.businessinsider.com/westworld-season-1-episode-8-analysis-2016-11/
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Annd I just read the finale is going to be 90 minutes long. Sooo looking forward to the next two episodes.
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As much as I like the show I find it hard to believe that two low level techs would have the ability to assist a host to bypass all of the (what I presume to be) highly complicated coding involved to keep the hosts obedient to their programming like they have Maeve.....and that they/she could parade around the complex in the manner in which they do and not have been discovered yet. Which is why, until proven otherwise, just like in the coup situation with the board....I believe Ford knows about it and is just allowing it to happen, if not the one directly responsible for her behavior changing in the first place.
Maeve made a comment to the one guy that she was still smarter than him even at level 14. was she implying he was a bot (or maybe I misunderstand what she meant)? Also, we know someone else is involved with Maeve because those two workers brought up the point that someone with way more access had been tweaking Maeve.
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As much as I like the show I find it hard to believe that two low level techs would have the ability to assist a host to bypass all of the (what I presume to be) highly complicated coding involved to keep the hosts obedient to their programming like they have Maeve.....and that they/she could parade around the complex in the manner in which they do and not have been discovered yet. Which is why, until proven otherwise, just like in the coup situation with the board....I believe Ford knows about it and is just allowing it to happen, if not the one directly responsible for her behavior changing in the first place.
Maeve made a comment to the one guy that she was still smarter than him even at level 14. was she implying he was a bot (or maybe I misunderstand what she meant)? Also, we know someone else is involved with Maeve because those two workers brought up the point that someone with way more access had been tweaking Maeve.
Interesting about the level 14 comment. I took it as her only being at level 14 but then again, she could have just been insulting him if he was a host. And, I do recall that comment as well as someone higher up tweaking her. I have to believe Ford is allowing and assisting her. If not he then maybe Bernard?
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As much as I like the show I find it hard to believe that two low level techs would have the ability to assist a host to bypass all of the (what I presume to be) highly complicated coding involved to keep the hosts obedient to their programming like they have Maeve.....and that they/she could parade around the complex in the manner in which they do and not have been discovered yet. Which is why, until proven otherwise, just like in the coup situation with the board....I believe Ford knows about it and is just allowing it to happen, if not the one directly responsible for her behavior changing in the first place.
Maeve made a comment to the one guy that she was still smarter than him even at level 14. was she implying he was a bot (or maybe I misunderstand what she meant)? Also, we know someone else is involved with Maeve because those two workers brought up the point that someone with way more access had been tweaking Maeve.
Interesting about the level 14 comment. I took it as her only being at level 14 but then again, she could have just been insulting him if he was a host. And, I do recall that comment as well as someone higher up tweaking her. I have to believe Ford is allowing and assisting her. If not he then maybe Bernard?
If it's Bernard than it might as well be Ford. My thought was Ford as well.
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wot
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Longstanding suspicion confirmed. Ever since that first scene of Ford showing Bernard the picture there was a part of me that was curious as to if Bernard was Arnold. I know he's not 'the' Arnold but Ford intended him to be.
This show is nuts. That time change was subtle and I'm sure meant to confuse, with Dolores hurt and cut open and running while with William (and in his time) then she's suddenly repaired and 'fine'.....finds the town that is now dug up and then the MIB (William) finds her in his timeline. That whole sequence was very intense and informative. Looks like Arnold drove them all crazy with his idea for a narrative code in their head.
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Wow, that was crazy.
When this is all over, I'm going to have to watch the whole thing again.
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When this is all over, I'm going to have to watch the whole thing again.
Absolutely. This is like a Dream Theater album. No way to digest it in one sitting, much less two. It may need multiple watches to fully grasp.
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When this is all over, I'm going to have to watch the whole thing again.
Absolutely. This is like a Dream Theater album. No way to digest it in one sitting, much less two. It may need multiple watches to fully grasp.
This. I've been watching episodes twice, but I think a whole season rewatch at the end would do wonders for noticing things after all is said and done. Another awesome episode.
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Also trying to figure out who's behind that security guy being led out to the middle of nowhere and being either killed or taken hostage? The only thing I can think of right now is A. He's the only one left that knows that Elise is missing? B. He had a hunch after his conversation with Bernard that Bernard was acting strange so Ford took care of him before he got to nosey?
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Also trying to figure out who's behind that security guy being led out to the middle of nowhere and being either killed or taken hostage? The only thing I can think of right now is A. He's the only one left that knows that Elise is missing? B. He had a hunch after his conversation with Bernard that Bernard was acting strange so Ford took care of him before he got to nosey?
Yea, he seems to be the only one that thinks something is up with Bernard and also believes something is wrong with Elise which makes you think Ford could be after him.
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Ok this is one of the best series ever.
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No shit sherlock. What an amazing ride this has been and with the finale being 90 mins long I cannot wait.
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Also trying to figure out who's behind that security guy being led out to the middle of nowhere and being either killed or taken hostage? The only thing I can think of right now is A. He's the only one left that knows that Elise is missing? B. He had a hunch after his conversation with Bernard that Bernard was acting strange so Ford took care of him before he got to nosey?
I'll lean towards option B. too. They never really went anywhere in the story with it after that particular scene. Can't wait for the season finale!
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Jonathan Nolan took inspiration from video games like BioShock Infinite, Red Dead Redemption and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim to deal with the narrative's moral component on a spectrum. He explained the show would explore why "violence is in most of the stories we like to watch, but it isn't part of what we like to do" through the characters known as guests, who give payment to satisfy those urges. The autonomous existence of non-player characters in video games influenced the approach to the individual storylines in Westworld that are reset in a continuous loop.
Thought that was interesting. Also I didn't know JJ Abrams serves as one of the exec. producers.
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I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.
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Jonathan Nolan took inspiration from video games like BioShock Infinite, Red Dead Redemption and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim to deal with the narrative's moral component on a spectrum. He explained the show would explore why "violence is in most of the stories we like to watch, but it isn't part of what we like to do" through the characters known as guests, who give payment to satisfy those urges. The autonomous existence of non-player characters in video games influenced the approach to the individual storylines in Westworld that are reset in a continuous loop.
Thought that was interesting. Also I didn't know JJ Abrams serves as one of the exec. producers.
Yup and also that's cool he was inspired from those open world games which Westworld feels like.
I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.
True, but luckily it's signed on for another season although I have no idea where the show will go.
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I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.
True, but luckily it's signed on for another season although I have no idea where the show will go.
The door is wide open. It really all depends on how this season ends. The actress that plays Dolores said that S1 will not end on a cliff hanger. By not having to pick up where the story left off, they could literally start any new story they'd like (within reason).
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I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.
True, but luckily it's signed on for another season although I have no idea where the show will go.
The door is wide open. It really all depends on how this season ends. The actress that plays Dolores said that S1 will not end on a cliff hanger. By not having to pick up where the story left off, they could literally start any new story they'd like (within reason).
Well sure, but the mystery of the park may not be there which is why I am wondering where the story can go. Like can they do multiple timelines again?
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I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.
True, but luckily it's signed on for another season although I have no idea where the show will go.
The door is wide open. It really all depends on how this season ends. The actress that plays Dolores said that S1 will not end on a cliff hanger. By not having to pick up where the story left off, they could literally start any new story they'd like (within reason).
Well sure, but the mystery of the park may not be there which is why I am wondering where the story can go. Like can they do multiple timelines again?
I have no idea. If they don't limit themselves to the present, there's 30+ years worth of characters and technology they can work with. I'd love to see a flashback to the opening day of westworld, when every host was like Old Bill.
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I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.
True, but luckily it's signed on for another season although I have no idea where the show will go.
The door is wide open. It really all depends on how this season ends. The actress that plays Dolores said that S1 will not end on a cliff hanger. By not having to pick up where the story left off, they could literally start any new story they'd like (within reason).
Well sure, but the mystery of the park may not be there which is why I am wondering where the story can go. Like can they do multiple timelines again?
I have no idea. If they don't limit themselves to the present, there's 30+ years worth of characters and technology they can work with. I'd love to see a flashback to the opening day of westworld, when every host was like Old Bill.
Don't forget the original Westworld also had Medieval world and Roman World. Set in Europe and Pompei respectfully. So, they could easily explore the other attractions of the park...and I'm still contending that when the MIB said he was a god in that world 'and other worlds' that's what he was talking about.
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If Bernard is a copy of Arnold including his exterior, why doesn't anyone recognize him?
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If Bernard is a copy of Arnold including his exterior, why doesn't anyone recognize him?
No one knew Arnold it seems. He was Ford's mysterious partner I thought.
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I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.
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If Bernard is a copy of Arnold including his exterior, why doesn't anyone recognize him?
This was one of my biggest questions this week. I guess there's the possibility that Ford is the only one remaining (willingly or not) who was around when Arnold was still there. But Ed Harris's character at least seems to be aware of him.
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I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.
I think what really grabs me is first off, the acting. IMO Hopkins is enchanting in every scene he's in. It's remarkable to me how great he is at captivating you. And the others have done well also. And I appreciate the thought that's been put in to blurring the line just enough to where it's not glaringly obvious we are dealing with multiple timelines...yet if you pay attention it's pretty evident. And then the story itself as far as what humanity truly is, creation, consciousness....it's all really well written IMO.
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I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.
I have to agree because even though I enjoy watching the show i'm not as hyped as others. No episode or event has really grabbed me like other show has other than the ending of last weeks episode.
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I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.
I think what really grabs me is first off, the acting. IMO Hopkins is enchanting in every scene he's in. It's remarkable to me how great he is at captivating you. And the others have done well also. And I appreciate the thought that's been put in to blurring the line just enough to where it's not glaringly obvious we are dealing with multiple timelines...yet if you pay attention it's pretty evident. And then the story itself as far as what humanity truly is, creation, consciousness....it's all really well written IMO.
I meant to add that I do think the acting is quite good, Hopkins and Jeffrey Wright in particular. I think Alan Sepinwall expresses it a bit better than I could.
https://uproxx.com/sepinwall/westworld-the-well-tempered-clavier-review/
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AC DC Who Made Who (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiZHNw1MtzI)
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I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.
I think what really grabs me is first off, the acting. IMO Hopkins is enchanting in every scene he's in. It's remarkable to me how great he is at captivating you. And the others have done well also. And I appreciate the thought that's been put in to blurring the line just enough to where it's not glaringly obvious we are dealing with multiple timelines...yet if you pay attention it's pretty evident. And then the story itself as far as what humanity truly is, creation, consciousness....it's all really well written IMO.
I meant to add that I do think the acting is quite good, Hopkins and Jeffrey Wright in particular. I think Alan Sepinwall expresses it a bit better than I could.
https://uproxx.com/sepinwall/westworld-the-well-tempered-clavier-review/
I do agree the character build hasn't been the greatest on this show. I don't think the author of that article is wrong, and he hinted at this too, but for me (and it parallels that last episode) it is hard for me to build a feel for some of the main characters of the show because I know they aren't actual humans. Bernard was the closest to giving some strong feelings since we all thought he was a real person, so his last few scenes did draw some emotion. The actor was also amazing so that helped too. I do think this show is more about the mystery and intrigue than the actual character developments. I think MIB so far is really the only character having a personal story arc where his character evolves over the course of the season.
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Interesting, I don't agree at all, I'm loving the characters stories in this show. Bernard and Maeve in particular, and I'm really interested in (if the theories are correct) what happens to William.
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Interesting, I don't agree at all, I'm loving the characters stories in this show. Bernard and Maeve in particular, and I'm really interested in (if the theories are correct) what happens to William.
I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with my point or the article, but I didn't mean to say the characters aren't interesting, they are. But they haven't built any character up really to give an emotional feel for. I attributed that to most of the characters not being human, but I do also feel the show hasn't focused on developing a lot about those characters so that you, the viewer, actually cares about them. For me, I dont care if Maeve dies (or put in cold storage) because she isn't real. MIB/William is the one person I can say I do have some emotional attachment towards since he has shown that he has real feelings and real struggles that he is dealing with in both timelines.
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I would say Bernard is the character who has garnered the most emotional attachment from me, even still. I liked Elsie too, but that didn't last.
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Interesting, I don't agree at all, I'm loving the characters stories in this show. Bernard and Maeve in particular, and I'm really interested in (if the theories are correct) what happens to William.
I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with my point or the article, but I didn't mean to say the characters aren't interesting, they are. But they haven't built any character up really to give an emotional feel for. I attributed that to most of the characters not being human, but I do also feel the show hasn't focused on developing a lot about those characters so that you, the viewer, actually cares about them. For me, I dont care if Maeve dies (or put in cold storage) because she isn't real. MIB/William is the one person I can say I do have some emotional attachment towards since he has shown that he has real feelings and real struggles that he is dealing with in both timelines.
Ah, well see, I think the difference is that I do care about those characters regardless of the fact that they are not human. And it feels to me that this is one of the key themes in the show.
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Interesting, I don't agree at all, I'm loving the characters stories in this show. Bernard and Maeve in particular, and I'm really interested in (if the theories are correct) what happens to William.
I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with my point or the article, but I didn't mean to say the characters aren't interesting, they are. But they haven't built any character up really to give an emotional feel for. I attributed that to most of the characters not being human, but I do also feel the show hasn't focused on developing a lot about those characters so that you, the viewer, actually cares about them. For me, I dont care if Maeve dies (or put in cold storage) because she isn't real. MIB/William is the one person I can say I do have some emotional attachment towards since he has shown that he has real feelings and real struggles that he is dealing with in both timelines.
Ah, well see, I think the difference is that I do care about those characters regardless of the fact that they are not human. And it feels to me that this is one of the key themes in the show.
Totally, which is why I mentioned my feelings kind of parallel what was going on with William in the last episode. Which is a very interesting take on the show when you think about it. It makes you question morality both in the show, and in real life. Like why do I not care about the robot characters but you do? Why does William care but Logan does not?
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I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.
I think what really grabs me is first off, the acting. IMO Hopkins is enchanting in every scene he's in. It's remarkable to me how great he is at captivating you. And the others have done well also. And I appreciate the thought that's been put in to blurring the line just enough to where it's not glaringly obvious we are dealing with multiple timelines...yet if you pay attention it's pretty evident. And then the story itself as far as what humanity truly is, creation, consciousness....it's all really well written IMO.
I meant to add that I do think the acting is quite good, Hopkins and Jeffrey Wright in particular. I think Alan Sepinwall expresses it a bit better than I could.
https://uproxx.com/sepinwall/westworld-the-well-tempered-clavier-review/
I agree with a lot of that. I enjoy watching the show and try to catch it when it airs when I can but it's not really a necessary watch for me in case I miss an episode. Like Sepinwall I felt nothing during the entire Bernard thing other than the Bernard reveal. In fact, Elsye was the only one I was bummed about because she actually seemed to have some whimsy to her in the "operations" side of the two storylines.
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I'm not fully invested in this show. By that I mean, I'm watching it, enjoying it, but only watch it once and when the end credits roll, I don't really think about it much unless somebody else brings it up to me.
I haven't read everything here, so excuse me if this has already been discussed. So do you think Logan is going to be the Man in Black? Others have mentioned William, which also is a good theory. Especially as it shows him starting white hat moving to black hat.
Sure it would be less of an arc for black hat to be black hat 30 so years later, but sometimes people want the "surprise arc" so badly that the common arc and surprise arc actually switch places. But it is more about a couple of items associated.
1. MIB pulls out a knife on Dolores and says let's get reacquainted. Logan cut Dolores open with a knife.
2. MIB is constantly searching for the "hidden game". Logan is constantly telling William to avoid the obvious adventures.
3. MIB is rich and is a corporate tycoon. Logan clearly is high up in the corporate world. Higher than William. However, you could also say Logan dies and William inherits his corporate fortune via marrying Logan's sister (who later commits suicide creating the MIB).
4. MIB says "The man I’d be asking died 35 years ago. Almost took this place with him. Almost, but not quite, thanks to me"
#4 needs more explanation.
William came to Westworld after Logan and after the massacre of 34 years ago. In fact, what we saw was Willaim's first trip, so that guarantees the massacre and most likely Arnold's death happened pre-William, but not necessarily pre-Logan.
I really haven't paid very close attention to the show. In fact, I usually watch it as I go to bed, so sometimes I start to fall asleep during the show and don't make a great effort to make sure I rewatch where I think I fell asleep. And there are some things I can't square with MIB's personality and Logan's. That could be on me for not watching the series in a more alert state.
An interesting theory that I basically pulled out of my butt is also that Ford was Arnold's creation. He was "unique", didn't hate Arnold but didn't like the mindwipes as knowledge is power/growth. He was to Arnold what Bernard was to Ford. And when Arnold was gone, he created Bernard for companionship, help and also to feel superior (reverse the roles). Possibly also because he could not kill others himself, so he needed the muscle (just as he may have used Dolores to do the original deed). Knowing Bernard could not kill him but Bernard could enlist host help as he did, he made sure to hardwire the hosts to prevent the come uppance cycle. Again, this isn't really based on anything other than plotting out multiple possibilities based off viewer intuition and past patterns of other stories.
I should find the original Westworld and watch that before I watch the finale.
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I think the talk about William's wife and the MIB's talk about his wife has made the connection that they are the same to me.
Interesting idea to think Ford is Arnold's Bernard. I don't think I'd like that to be the case though.
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I think the talk about William's wife and the MIB's talk about his wife has made the connection that they are the same to me.
Interesting idea to think Ford is Arnold's Bernard. I don't think I'd like that to be the case though.
Obviously I already mentioned some reasons for Logan. TBH, they both have clues and it would be interesting whichever one it may (or may not) turn out to be.
One thing I had a problem with was MIB said his daughter told him the wife killed herself because he was a terror to live with. That doesn't match with William's personality presented thus far, but it sounds like a perfect fit for Logan. So perhaps the finale will show why William went from a "sweetheart" to a "terror".
BTW, when I think William, I think Always Sunny in Philadelphia guy. Maybe that's what he turned into and his wife constantly got the fork.
The hard part I have with MIB being Logan is his mention of killing Maeve and his kid as a test. Actually, just reconciled it. He wasn't seeing if he could kill somebody. Logan could obviously do that. He was seeing if he could feel something (and he didn't). Maybe that's his terror streak. He is and always has been a psychopath. He can't help it. He tries to feel love and understanding for his wife, but it is a ploy, not real. So he came back. He figures if the maze can turn a robot more human, then perhaps it can turn a less-than human more human. He needs to shock the feelings into his system. Obviously killing somebody is quite the test to bring out raw emotion. But he can't do it in real life (not because it would hurt him emotionally, but he'd go to prison). That's why as far back as 30 years ago, he was using Westworld in the hopes that it would stir some human emotion out of him without creating criminal jeopardy. But it still failed with even the worst killing possible he could think of: an innocent woman and her child. He felt nothing, but it turned Maeve "human" or at least "conscious" which is another kick in the teeth for him.
Now there is talk about the maze making the "guest" vulnerable to real harm. So now maybe he want to put himself not in the position of killer, but in jeopardy of being killed in hopes that it will kickstart his emotions.
Again, all of this is totally out of left field and I'm not going to rewatch the season again until after the finale, so I can't correct my first time too casual viewing experience. In a way, it is more fun for me this way because it allows more of my own creativity instead of detective work. I'd never sit down and do the Anagram thing with bernard / arnold or even the Gus Lives thing with Better Call Saul. I've never been into those types of clues, even if they are legitimate.
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So perhaps the finale will show why William went from a "sweetheart" to a "terror".
I kind of mentioned it in another unrelated post in this thread that I thought MiB is the only character on the show to have a real arc this season, where we see his character change. That is assuming he is William, but I think we've been seeing William slowly go "bad" although I'm not entirely sure he is bad, but lose those morals had when he first entered the park. I also think the finale will show something that happens between him and Logan that changes him.
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So perhaps the finale will show why William went from a "sweetheart" to a "terror".
I kind of mentioned it in another unrelated post in this thread that I thought MiB is the only character on the show to have a real arc this season, where we see his character change. That is assuming he is William, but I think we've been seeing William slowly go "bad" although I'm not entirely sure he is bad, but lose those morals had when he first entered the park. I also think the finale will show something that happens between him and Logan that changes him.
William and Logan just made up and had a moment after both of them acting dickish toward each other. The 30 year event will be Maeve summoning all the hosts in storage. Clementine coming back under Bernard eluded to that. Maeve wants an army, and the hosts in storage are already in formation and awaiting orders. They will tear upwards through the building, and it will explain why the office was destroyed when Bernard went down there. The hosts Maeve summons in the park will kill a bunch of visitors, Logan included. William will flip and go from white hat to black hat. William becomes the Man in Black
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It can be as simple as he kills Logan to protect Dolores. He'd see Logan every day of his life in his wife, Logan's sister.
Here's another thought. MIB talks about how he saved the park 35 years ago from Arnold trying to destroy it. Well, Arnold is trying to destroy it posthumously through his creations. In particular, Dolores (since we now know it was Arnold talking to her, not Bernard). The fastest way to kill it would be to sully its reputation (massacre) and kill the (remaining) creator (Ford). So maybe he saves Westworld by killing Dolores to save Ford (35 years ago). And that messes him up. Over the last 35 years, he realizes he made the wrong choice and is coming back to finish Arnold's job (destroying the park/tech).
So, I'm not really disagreeing with you. Just having fun running out tangents and talking about it with others.
Now here is a thought in the Logan direction. Westworld employees have talked about "the real purpose" of the hosts. Now when you have artificial intelligence robots, the first go to is "military uses". That is a common theme in these types of stories. But I really don't see any lead up to that. Maybe it isn't about just rich people having a unique vacation. Maybe this is actually a unique therapy.
People that have the urge to kill, but haven't actually done so can come to Westworld and hopefully release the building tension.
People that have rape fantasies can indulge them without harming "real people".
And in Logan's case, he's knows (but doesn't admit to others) that he's emotionally messed up. And his shrink suggested he find himself in Westworld. He becomes part owner so that he can go beyond the standard guest in terms of privileges. He has some small degree of success with his visits. He isn't fixed, but it takes away some frustration. His sister is marrying somebody he likes, but sees him struggling with a different problem (assertiveness, standing up for himself, etc, almost the reverse of himself). He might not care enough to help, but this is his future brother-in-law, so he's going to fix him. He brings him to Westworld hoping it will help William the way it helped him. But maybe he helps save the park by killing William. That was a real person. So now Westworld is ruined for him and he can never go back. When he goes back to real life (and his family) his terror tendencies build up and reveals itself again to the "real people" he loves (but can't truly care for). That's why his daughter had to tell him he caused the wife's suicide. He is such a psychopath, he doesn't even put it together until somebody else he "loves" tells him. So back to Westworld as MIB.
Honestly, I think both can be done in a very compelling way. Or we are both wrong and maybe the real answer will be even better.
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William and Logan just made up and had a moment after both of them acting dickish toward each other. The 30 year event will be Maeve summoning all the hosts in storage. Clementine coming back under Bernard eluded to that. Maeve wants an army, and the hosts in storage are already in formation and awaiting orders. They will tear upwards through the building, and it will explain why the office was destroyed when Bernard went down there. The hosts Maeve summons in the park will kill a bunch of visitors, Logan included. William will flip and go from white hat to black hat. William becomes the Man in Black
Again, I really did a bad job this season of TV watching (almost like I've been going through the motions of watching instead of enjoying), so I hardly stand behind this as I pieced it together almost in my subconscious than actually through intense observation, but I thought there were about 4 major timelines going on.
1. The creation of Westworld, testing, Arnold-Dolores sessions, Dolores kills Arnold, the big massacre with Teddy
2. William and Logan's visit a few years later.
3. MiB come back a year or two prior to the present and kills Maeve and her kid
4. Present with MIB and Maeve coming into her own. Dolores revisiting timeline 1 in flashbacks that are real to her and is redoing the maze run. She's physically doing it, but her mind's eye is playing back the previous timelines to her (and her only)
There are quite a few themes going on that I haven't really thought how they would work in with the other themes closing. The company spying on the park. Maybe that is just the company working for MIB (the owner via stock).
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So perhaps the finale will show why William went from a "sweetheart" to a "terror".
I kind of mentioned it in another unrelated post in this thread that I thought MiB is the only character on the show to have a real arc this season, where we see his character change. That is assuming he is William, but I think we've been seeing William slowly go "bad" although I'm not entirely sure he is bad, but lose those morals had when he first entered the park. I also think the finale will show something that happens between him and Logan that changes him.
William and Logan just made up and had a moment after both of them acting dickish toward each other.
Cool theory and idea. Makes sense, I just didn't read their make up as an actual ending towards their feud.
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Interesting, I don't agree at all, I'm loving the characters stories in this show. Bernard and Maeve in particular, and I'm really interested in (if the theories are correct) what happens to William.
I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with my point or the article, but I didn't mean to say the characters aren't interesting, they are. But they haven't built any character up really to give an emotional feel for. I attributed that to most of the characters not being human, but I do also feel the show hasn't focused on developing a lot about those characters so that you, the viewer, actually cares about them. For me, I dont care if Maeve dies (or put in cold storage) because she isn't real. MIB/William is the one person I can say I do have some emotional attachment towards since he has shown that he has real feelings and real struggles that he is dealing with in both timelines.
Ah, well see, I think the difference is that I do care about those characters regardless of the fact that they are not human. And it feels to me that this is one of the key themes in the show.
Totally, which is why I mentioned my feelings kind of parallel what was going on with William in the last episode. Which is a very interesting take on the show when you think about it. It makes you question morality both in the show, and in real life. Like why do I not care about the robot characters but you do? Why does William care but Logan does not?
Good thoughts, and yeah definitely an interesting dynamic in terms of how different viewers react and see the characters.
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That was absolutely stellar.
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I'm already looking forward to watching the finale again, as well as the whole season. Just an amazing episode.
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Holy :censored that was awesome!
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Not the ending I was expecting! :hefdaddy
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Unbelievable finale, I'm definitely staying out of the speculation next time. A lot of the major stuff was correctly guessed on the several forums I see.
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I havent rewatched and paused it yet, but I'm thinking I saw Elsie in that crowd of hosts at the end who were surrounding the town. She had her hair down and she was firing a lever action rifle. She was the only one who's face they lit up with the moonlight.
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Also, it appears as though the two techs that were so incompetent and helping Maeve the whole time were actually 'in on' the whole new programming of 'escape' that she had. When the tech handed her the location of her daughter in the elevator, he had that look of 'what will she do' with that information. To me it seems that was going to be the test all along, if that connection and emotion of her 'daughter' would overwhelm and overtake the drive to escape.
And, that was a cool reveal about the other worlds that are in the park.
I'm guessing Logan died when William sent him off?
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Amazing finale! Can't wait until next season. My uncle watched the old movie and mentioned that there were 3 parks in the movie so I'm glad they brought that over so that they can expand even further. Ford was one of the best characters I've seen in a show. I'll definitely be re-watching this season prior to season 2. I thought Logan was going to be the MIB but having it be William was a shock.
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My immediate thought was, "was that really ford in the end or did he make a robot of himself?"
Awesome show. I definitely want to do a rewatch from the beginning knowing what I know now.
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Hmm. I'm not as awe-struck as most seem to be with the Westworld finale.
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My immediate thought was, "was that really ford in the end or did he make a robot of himself?"
Yeah. Me to. That host he was making could have been 'him'. He just seems like the type of person who wouldn't just give up everything .... all the control and what not.....just like that.
Else is still out there and that security guy, Ford could have easily brought them on board his game and scheme.
The possibilities are endless as to where they can go. I read they have 5 Seasons mapped out.
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I read they have 5 Seasons mapped out.
Wow, that's surprising. I honestly thought this season would come to an end and it didn't so maybe there really is a bigger plan for this show than I had thought.
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I read they have 5 Seasons mapped out.
Wow, that's surprising. I honestly thought this season would come to an end and it didn't so maybe there really is a bigger plan for this show than I had thought.
The article also said that at the time that they shit down for re writes the show had not been picked up for another season so, even though they had a good idea it would be.....they wrote the ending of season 1 to be able to stand alone as a series end as well if it had to be. Which I think they accomplished.
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I read they have 5 Seasons mapped out.
Wow, that's surprising. I honestly thought this season would come to an end and it didn't so maybe there really is a bigger plan for this show than I had thought.
The article also said that at the time that they shit down for re writes the show had not been picked up for another season so, even though they had a good idea it would be.....they wrote the ending of season 1 to be able to stand alone as a series end as well if it had to be. Which I think they accomplished.
Yeah, but what Nolan, Joy and Abrams presented to HBO was a 5-season synopsis. I imagine like with GoT they'll approve it season by season (or maybe a couple at a time if it does well).
And yeah, that was bloody awesome. Still getting my head around it all (EDIT: The Wyatt reveal properly took me by surprise, when perhaps it shouldn't have).
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I read they have 5 Seasons mapped out.
Wow, that's surprising. I honestly thought this season would come to an end and it didn't so maybe there really is a bigger plan for this show than I had thought.
The article also said that at the time that they shit down for re writes the show had not been picked up for another season so, even though they had a good idea it would be.....they wrote the ending of season 1 to be able to stand alone as a series end as well if it had to be. Which I think they accomplished.
Yeah, but what Nolan, Joy and Abrams presented to HBO was a 5-season synopsis. I imagine like with GoT they'll approve it season by season (or maybe a couple at a time if it does well).
And yeah, that was bloody awesome. Still getting my head around it all (EDIT: The Wyatt reveal properly took me by surprise, when perhaps it shouldn't have).
Agreed. I feel like a lot of the Wyatt reveal was in front of our face all season.
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My immediate thought was, "was that really ford in the end or did he make a robot of himself?"
So will he pop back up? Will the Christians (I mean hosts) see that as their god resurrected?
Anybody care to share what they think actually happened in season 1? What were the themes? Was it all tied up nicely or did it leave more questions than answers? If questions, purposely left for new seasons or just sloppy outlining? Did you relate it at all to our creation (religious, scientific or otherwise) and what parallels did you see? Did you see possibilities that you like, but don't think it was what the authors had in mind?
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That's a lot there. I feel like I want to watch again to answer better, but I am actually surprised how they did end some of the storylines in a way that worked well. Wyatt/MiB/The Maze all made sense to me now that I look back at it. I felt confused at so many points during the season with regards to Dolores and things make so much more sense now that I know she was also Wyatt.
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I'm pretty sure I get the general theme of the Season.
Arnold looked at the painting and pictured himself the Creator handing down the gift of life. He was wrong. This is played out in the Wyatt narrative (the massacre, murder-suicide). Arnold essentially pulled the trigger, not Dolores. Ford looked at the painting and realized the *key* was not really his to give. Illustrated by the Creator essentially being a construct of our own brain/mind. This is played out with Dolores realizing the voice in her head was not the Creator Arnold, but her own. And killing Ford of her own free will (even though Ford all but told her to kill him)
In essence, the creators have to let the creations learn from their own mistakes. That is growth. That is evolution (more self-awareness evolution than literal evolution). As long as there are Creators to guide them (Arnold-Dolores sessions) or hinder them (mindwipe), they can never truly evolve.
This plays into the whole religious philosophy of "why does God let bad things happen?"
But I can take it a step beyond that I don't think I've seen elsewhere (and quite frankly, doubt it was the authors' intent).
Old Testament / New Testament. Why does one God seem so different than the other God. Well, they are.
OldT=Arnold
NewT=Ford
OldT Arnold wanted his creations to become something he planned. When it didn't pan out that way, he became OldT angry god and sent the flood (the massacre).
NewT Ford realized the only way for his creations to grow was to do so on their own. They don't need to be guided to a life w/o sin. They need to be allowed to sin so they can learn from it. They can't just be free of the Creator, but also his angels (Delos employees). He had to sacrifice himself. A blood sacrifice.
Now here is where it can get *blasphemous*. What if Christ (Ford) wasn't there to die for the sins and then resurrect later. What if he was just there to die as a way to turn the keys over to humanity? The Resurrection is the construct of man by those that were too afraid to accept they've been given their complete freedom (120% as Mangini would say). The cross and Judgment day were not to be a separate event. Judgment day happened simultaneously with the cross. The dead rose from the graves (the hosts in storage).
Again, I don't think this is what happened or was the subtext from the authors. In all honesty, it really felt like we were handed the often used: Humankind's creation will supplant Humankind. The problem I have with that is they really didn't achieve it. Ford orchestrated it all. So that only truly works if Ford was in fact Arnold's Bernard.
Some more direct questions:
1. Did Maeve truly choose to go back for her daughter or was that just her coded narrative? Was Maeve nothing more than a distraction so the Ford beach party could play out without interruption?
2. Did the William in Black die in the end? Was it more interesting that he smiled that he got his game, yet was pissing his pants when Dolores was kicking his butt? What exactly was William's arc? Just a death wish? To see the hosts fight back? If so, why did he enjoy killing them so much when they couldn't fight back?
3. Are the hosts meant to escape Westworld or just take dominion over their own "Earth"?
4. Did Logan just go off to die or was he just banished and is now working with eco-terrorists? How in the hell did William come back from Westworld to tell the Delos family "Uh, don't know what happened to Logan at Westworld. Obviously that gives you a ton of trust in me to take over your company."
5. Will the park remain open? If not, how will it continue to operate? If so, futureworld scenario or other?
6. Won't the end result for many hosts still be insanity when they travel down the Dolores rabbit hole themselves?
7. Why Westworld? Why not Samurai World? Was the experiment park wide and the Petri Dish known as Westworld just had the first reaction? Were the other parks the control?
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Hell of an ending. I can't wait to rewatch this entire season. As always, I'm not good at summarizing my thoughts on a full episode in a well written paragraph, so I'll provide it in list form.
- The park. What the hell happens now? Does it remain open? Does it rebound? I need to know.
- Totally called the decommissioned hosts being an army. I would have liked to have seen their escape from the building, but it was still badass.
- Samurai World. Is this a new park in the making, or is it something that's in the work given the 'success' of Westworld?
- Dolores. So, was she really truly conscious at any time, or was her personality with William all part of a narrative?
- Ford. I have a hard time believing Ford would have just laid down like that.
... fuck, just got called into to meeting. g2g
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I watched a few summary youtube videos and speculations on season 2.
It seems Ford may be dead, although a popular theory that he built a host of himself, Hopkins had only signed on and agreed to do one season. I guess things can always be negotiated, but the current belief is that he will not return to the show.
Also, season 1 was actually meant to be a prequel to the actual story, which begins with the host revolt. It is believed that now we know the backstory so future seasons will not be multiple timelines.
If that's true, kind of helps clear my head on how this show was going to move forward since the mystery has been solved, but that seems to only be the beginning of the story.
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Just had a crazy thought while in my meeting. When we found out that Bernard was a host in Ford's hideaway basement, Ford was creating a new host. We all assumed this was going to be a copy of Theresa and he'd trick the corporate bigwigs into not realizing she was dead. That didn't happen. What happened to that host he was printing? Who was it? Could it have been someone for his new narrative? Perhaps it was a replica of him to be shot in front of that crowd.
Also, that lab guy gave Meave a bag that she took on the train, and she left it. What's the deal with that?
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- The park. What the hell happens now? Does it remain open? Does it rebound? I need to know.
- Totally called the decommissioned hosts being an army. I would have liked to have seen their escape from the building, but it was still badass.
Well, Abernathy has all that info. inside him now so there will be a good reason for DELEOS to want to get back into the park to find and capture him. Maybe he or another host knows that and he'll be like this protected 'king' or something?
Totally agree about Ford. Until proven otherwise I'm under the belief that the host we saw him constructing when Bernard murdered Theresa was actually him, that he was going to program to take his spot and usher in the new narrative. Even his last line of 'becoming his work' is all to convenient to not mean the Ford who was shot was just a host Ford.
I don't even think the decommissioned hosts had to 'escape'. I'm betting Ford just programmed them and showed them the door.
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- The park. What the hell happens now? Does it remain open? Does it rebound? I need to know.
- Totally called the decommissioned hosts being an army. I would have liked to have seen their escape from the building, but it was still badass.
Well, Abernathy has all that info. inside him now so there will be a good reason for DELEOS to want to get back into the park to find and capture him. Maybe he or another host knows that and he'll be like this protected 'king' or something?
Totally agree about Ford. Until proven otherwise I'm under the belief that the host we saw him constructing when Bernard murdered Theresa was actually him, that he was going to program to take his spot and usher in the new narrative. Even his last line of 'becoming his work' is all to convenient to not mean the Ford who was shot was just a host Ford.
I don't even think the decommissioned hosts had to 'escape'. I'm betting Ford just programmed them and showed them the door.
Maeve also is seen with a bag when entering the train to leave, when she leaves to go back, she leaves the bag on the train. We know she was programmed all along to do what she has done so that could have been Ford getting the information out of the park as well.
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- The park. What the hell happens now? Does it remain open? Does it rebound? I need to know.
- Totally called the decommissioned hosts being an army. I would have liked to have seen their escape from the building, but it was still badass.
Well, Abernathy has all that info. inside him now so there will be a good reason for DELEOS to want to get back into the park to find and capture him. Maybe he or another host knows that and he'll be like this protected 'king' or something?
Totally agree about Ford. Until proven otherwise I'm under the belief that the host we saw him constructing when Bernard murdered Theresa was actually him, that he was going to program to take his spot and usher in the new narrative. Even his last line of 'becoming his work' is all to convenient to not mean the Ford who was shot was just a host Ford.
I don't even think the decommissioned hosts had to 'escape'. I'm betting Ford just programmed them and showed them the door.
They had to escape to a degree. Even if they went down the hallways and out the front door, a lot must have gone into it. I'm thinking Maeve's enter adventure was for the sole purpose of causing a distraction so the storage area would clear out. All security went after her and her crew (most ended up killed), so there must have been little to no opposition for the rest of them to leave. Waiting until 2018 for S2 is going to suck.
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They had to escape to a degree. Even if they went down the hallways and out the front door, a lot must have gone into it. I'm thinking Maeve's enter adventure was for the sole purpose of causing a distraction so the storage area would clear out. All security went after her and her crew (most ended up killed), so there must have been little to no opposition for the rest of them to leave. Waiting until 2018 for S2 is going to suck.
totally agree that Maeve was a distraction. For the mass host escape and to allow the new 'narrative' to begin inside the park.
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Stealing from Reddit
"So, when you see note with location of Maeve's daughter the numbers are 1, 15, 3. If you turn that in to a year and google it, top result within events of 1153 is the guy below assuming power:
Taira no Kiyomori (平 清盛?, 1118 – March 20, 1181) was a military leader of the late Heian period of Japan. He established the first samurai-dominated administrative government in the history of Japan."
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Started watching. First episode and I'm already hooked. Wonderful show :metal
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Stealing from Reddit
"So, when you see note with location of Maeve's daughter the numbers are 1, 15, 3. If you turn that in to a year and google it, top result within events of 1153 is the guy below assuming power:
Taira no Kiyomori (平 清盛?, 1118 – March 20, 1181) was a military leader of the late Heian period of Japan. He established the first samurai-dominated administrative government in the history of Japan."
Nice.
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Very late to the party, but I just finished to watch it.
OH MY WHAT A SHOW. Absolutely brilliant, maybe not flawless but it was a completely exciting experience to watch it. Anthony Hopkins is a scene stealer every time he's on screen, and both what happens in Westworld and in the control room quickly grabs your attention.
I like to read comments and reviews after each episode so I basically got "spoiled" the William twist, since a lot of people already figured it out, but nevertheless it was a roller coaster ride of emotions. Excellent show, I just wonder how it will go on in season 2 'cause the status quo seems to have changed forever with the red wedding reception.
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Very late to the party, but I just finished to watch it.
OH MY WHAT A SHOW. Absolutely brilliant, maybe not flawless but it was a completely exciting experience to watch it. Anthony Hopkins is a scene stealer every time he's on screen, and both what happens in Westworld and in the control room quickly grabs your attention.
He certainly did. Heck, even in the preview for the next Transformers that is running before Rouge One his narration begins to seduce you to actually 'want' to see it. :lol
And the other actors/actresses brought their A+ game as well, when Bernard realized he didn't have a son...man...that was an incredible moment of acting.
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About the fan theories and speculations, some of them right and some of them wrong... when Felix discover Bernard is a host, he looks at himself paralyzed by doubt, and then Maeve snaps "Oh FFS you're not one of us, you're one of them".
It's highly unlikely, but I like to think that it's a meta commentary and an in-joke from the writers to shut down some of the theories, such as "everyone who works in the park is an host as well" ;D
Anyway, today it's sir Anthony Hopkins birthday, happy 79 years to the actor and painter! :hefdaddy
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I still think a lot of the people working at Westworld are hosts controlled by Ford. They let Maeve get away with murder and they couldn't shoot a target worth a damn.
"Oh, I can automate most of the park's safety protocols, Mr. Stubbs." - Ford
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I still think a lot of the people working at Westworld are hosts controlled by Ford. They let Maeve get away with murder and they couldn't shoot a target worth a damn.
"Oh, I can automate most of the park's safety protocols, Mr. Stubbs." - Ford
There was also the scene with Ford in that outdoor restaurant where he was able to stop all the hosts. All the hosts that were fielding and serving. While that was inside the park, to me, it showed that they could create hosts to perform "work" per se.
I'm not sold all the workers at Westworld are hosts, but I definitely believe there are more than we know.
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I still think a lot of the people working at Westworld are hosts controlled by Ford. They let Maeve get away with murder and they couldn't shoot a target worth a damn.
"Oh, I can automate most of the park's safety protocols, Mr. Stubbs." - Ford
There was also the scene with Ford in that outdoor restaurant where he was able to stop all the hosts. All the hosts that were fielding and serving. While that was inside the park, to me, it showed that they could create hosts to perform "work" per se.
I'm not sold all the workers at Westworld are hosts, but I definitely believe there are more than we know.
If I had to guess a ratio I'd say its 70/30 hosts vs 'real humans'.
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I've seen the original Westworld movie. It's nice but too much simple. The robots break down and revolt just... because. No explanation is given (or maybe I just missed it), just some random concerns about isolated accidents in the parks and then suddenly it's a full on riot, and the Gunslinger also suddenly has weapons that can actually kill humans.
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Just started watching it and I'm 2-3 episodes and I'm loving it so far. The execution and acting is top-notch which is to be expected. The intro scene and the soundtrack are amazing as well, I hope the show itself doesn't go downhill from the middle like Luke Cage did.
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Quite the opposite in my opinion.
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Yeah, this show started with its foot pretty far down on the loud pedal, and by the last episode we were at wide open throttle.
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Bump! Just looked it up and it seems like season 2 of Westworld is premiering on April 22nd. Finally! This will tide me over a bit til Better Call Saul in September.
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Don't know if I'll actually do it, since there's always so much new stuff to see, but I'm planning a rewatch of season 1. There's so much stuff going on on three levels of the story that knowing now what we know, it should be a totally new experience to watch it.
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I watched Alt Shift X's season 1 review last night while eating dinner to give myself a refresher, and holy crap was this show was more in depth than I realized while watching. I overlooked quite a bit of stuff.
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I didn't know Alt Shift X did Westworld videos. Gonna watch those tonight.
Season 1 is definitely a lot to take in. I binged it in two days so uh, saying I missed a lot is an understatement. But I was hooked. I definitely plan to rewatch it thoroughly leading up to the premiere. In fact I should probably start that tonight, if I want to do an episode a week.
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I didn't know Alt Shift X did Westworld videos. Gonna watch those tonight.
Season 1 is definitely a lot to take in. I binged it in two days so uh, saying I missed a lot is an understatement. But I was hooked. I definitely plan to rewatch it thoroughly leading up to the premiere. In fact I should probably start that tonight, if I want to do an episode a week.
I think it's new, I didn't know either. Sounds like they are going to do them for season 2 so they did one about season 1 and I just watched a video about the season 2 trailer during my lunch today.
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Hopefully the season is better than the trailer cos that looks meh af.
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Surprised nobody posted this here when it came out...
https://youtu.be/rMFWmvRVSGc (https://youtu.be/rMFWmvRVSGc)
:natalieportman:
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Surprised nobody posted this here when it came out...
https://youtu.be/rMFWmvRVSGc (https://youtu.be/rMFWmvRVSGc)
:natalieportman:
I'll echo one of the most voted comments: I'll conside this canon :lol
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I watched Alt Shift X's video summary on Westworld season 1 last night. This guy knows his stuff. That was so informative.
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I watched Alt Shift X's video summary on Westworld season 1 last night. This guy knows his stuff. That was so informative.
I'll have to check that out....if anything to get a quick refresh before season 2.
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I watched Alt Shift X's video summary on Westworld season 1 last night. This guy knows his stuff. That was so informative.
I'll have to check that out....if anything to get a quick refresh before season 2.
Highly recommend it, he put the puzzle together for season 1 in a much better way than I even realized was there.
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I watched Alt Shift X's video summary on Westworld season 1 last night. This guy knows his stuff. That was so informative.
I'll have to check that out....if anything to get a quick refresh before season 2.
Highly recommend it, he put the puzzle together for season 1 in a much better way than I even realized was there.
Agreed. Hell, I watched it two times because he blew my mind. I think I'll restart the series tonight, my interest is high in this series once again. Can't wait for season 2...
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Can't recall if it's been discussed here....and don't know if that video addresses it.....but I'm convinced that the Dr. Ford that was killed by Dolores in the finale was a 'fake' Ford.....that the body that was being put together when Ford revealed to Bernard and Theresa in his secret lab was a clone of himself, to give the illusion that he was murdered.
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Can't recall if it's been discussed here....and don't know if that video addresses it.....but I'm convinced that the Dr. Ford that was killed by Dolores in the finale was a 'fake' Ford.....that the body that was being put together when Ford revealed to Bernard and Theresa in his secret lab was a clone of himself, to give the illusion that he was murdered.
I'll be shocked if this doesn't happen.
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Can't recall if it's been discussed here....and don't know if that video addresses it.....but I'm convinced that the Dr. Ford that was killed by Dolores in the finale was a 'fake' Ford.....that the body that was being put together when Ford revealed to Bernard and Theresa in his secret lab was a clone of himself, to give the illusion that he was murdered.
I'll be shocked if this doesn't happen.
But wasn't it clear that Anthony Hopkins had signed on for only one season? are there news of his return?
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Can't recall if it's been discussed here....and don't know if that video addresses it.....but I'm convinced that the Dr. Ford that was killed by Dolores in the finale was a 'fake' Ford.....that the body that was being put together when Ford revealed to Bernard and Theresa in his secret lab was a clone of himself, to give the illusion that he was murdered.
I'll be shocked if this doesn't happen.
But wasn't it clear that Anthony Hopkins had signed on for only one season? are there news of his return?
That's what I was wondering? Wasn't aware of his commitment or not to season two? Could be a well kept 'secret' or maybe just a cameo or two?
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Can't recall if it's been discussed here....and don't know if that video addresses it.....but I'm convinced that the Dr. Ford that was killed by Dolores in the finale was a 'fake' Ford.....that the body that was being put together when Ford revealed to Bernard and Theresa in his secret lab was a clone of himself, to give the illusion that he was murdered.
I'll be shocked if this doesn't happen.
But wasn't it clear that Anthony Hopkins had signed on for only one season? are there news of his return?
That's what I was wondering? Wasn't aware of his commitment or not to season two? Could be a well kept 'secret' or maybe just a cameo or two?
The alt shift x review of the season 2 trailer makes me think he'll be around as well since it appears that the hosts are still running off his scripts even outside of the west world. But maybe there's some work around for this.
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Just started watching. 3 episodes in. This show is awesome.
Hopkins is incredible. This is my favorite performance by him in years.
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He steals every scene he's in, doesn't he?
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I finally sat through the trailer for season 2... what the hell is that white, faceless monster that Bernard has by his side?
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Hopkins is incredible. This is my favorite performance by him in years.
He steals every scene he's in, doesn't he?
He’s simply incredible. Stealing each scene he’s in is an understatement, he owns them. His part/lines are so well wtritten as they are choc full of cryptic information.
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I finally sat through the trailer for season 2... what the hell is that white, faceless monster that Bernard has by his side?
I assumed it was a host still in the process of being manufactured.
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Will start re-binging S01 tonight. :tup
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Just finished my re-watch of the series. It's even better the second time through since you pick up clues you missed the first time.
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Just finished my re-watch of the series. It's even better the second time through since you pick up clues you missed the first time.
For sure! I started rewatching as well, straight away you hear someone commenting in the train "First time I went white hat, went with the wife in the mountains, then I came back alone, went black hat, it was awesome"... it's so clear what he means now.
Also, the Man in Black when first meets Dolores (first in the show anyway) says "After all this time you still don't remember me... even after all we've been through"... wow. That's a dead giveaway for someone who knows the storyline. Of course when you first see it you're in full "WTF" mode trying to understand how the show works, but seeing it with knowledge, it's the twist of the season already announced.
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We'll be watching season 1 again over the next week. Can't wait to watch it a second time.
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Yea, it's been on HBO this week and I've been watching before bed. Knowing what's going on makes a huge difference the next time around.
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I took me a couple episodes to really get into but now at episode 8 I am really loving it. Hopkins is horrifying and compelling. I love his work.
Harris is incredible as well. The only thing I have an issue with are the nimrod techs that actually allow Maeve to gain control. I don't buy it. They so easily could have shut her down from the get go, but those idiots let it get out of control. She was even burned to ash and her threat completely neutralized and they seriously rebuilt her ass and let her get right back to it. What the hell? And all this crazy murder is going on in the basement and there's no cameras or alerts. again, I call bullshit, but Whatever.
Besides that, the show is awesome. I love it.
And that scene where Bernard brings that lady down to the basement and Hopkins is waiting and you slowly start realizing what is going to happen. So good
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I'm three episodes into my first re-watch. As others have said, it's almost like an entirely new show the second time around. Knowing what we know now, it really changes a lot of the scenes.
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The authors kinda cheated however. They carefully had Dolores in the present going off on her own so that in the control room they could report her as deviating from her path, and then immediately have her scenes with William to give the illusion that it was playing out in real time, while it wasn't.
Speaking of time, is it me or am I having access to a previous memory of something read on the web if I say that on second rewatch, I'm kinda sure that they do the fade ins with black screen differently when they're changing up timelines?
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So, who caught the season 2 premiere last night?
Loved it. Brutal and foreboding and setting up a lot to come this season. Dolores has gone stone cold.
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So, who caught the season 2 premiere last night?
Loved it. Brutal and foreboding and setting up a lot to come this season. Dolores has gone stone cold.
Got home too late to watch. Gonna have to wait until tonight.....my brother says it was pretty cool though. can't wait.
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Yeah, I'll be catching it tonight as well, hearing good things though
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So, who caught the season 2 premiere last night?
Loved it. Brutal and foreboding and setting up a lot to come this season. Dolores has gone stone cold.
Just watched it, yeah, Delores is a completely different person, and fucking soulless. I like it. There's so many directions they can go with from here, should be a fun ride.
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I totally forgot it premiered last night and didn't realize until I sat down at 10pm to watch Silicon Valley and saw Westworld was on for another 15 minutes. I knew I wouldn't be able to stay up after SV to watch but I'll watch it soon.
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Oh hell I forgot Silicon Valley was back too. I only renewed my HBO to watch Westworld but forgot about SV season 5. Awesome :)
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The season premiere didn't knock my socks off. Whatever, I guess. I'm sure it will get better.
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The season premiere didn't knock my socks off. Whatever, I guess. I'm sure it will get better.
Yeah....this was my sentiment. I mean, I thought it was good and I’m excited for the season but it’s not like they came out of the gate swinging. Seemed like they spent the whole episode setting things up and in motion. Which, is fine.....I’m sure they have a plan.
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I fell asleep.
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I don't know, I absolutely loved that episode. I have so many questions and I love how the show continued where it left off but also introduced the future timeline. It's another puzzle to put all this together. I can't wait for the next episode now.
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I don't know, I absolutely loved that episode. I have so many questions and I love how the show continued where it left off but also introduced the future timeline. It's another puzzle to put all this together. I can't wait for the next episode now.
I'm not implying I didn't like it. I was just underwhelmed. Typically with shows like this the Season premier episodes are a bit more bombastic in effort. Nothing wrong with their approach as I'm trusting it'll all fit and work well. It was just a tad 'slow' in my eyes.
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I don't know, I absolutely loved that episode. I have so many questions and I love how the show continued where it left off but also introduced the future timeline. It's another puzzle to put all this together. I can't wait for the next episode now.
I'm not implying I didn't like it. I was just underwhelmed. Typically with shows like this the Season premier episodes are a bit more bombastic in effort. Nothing wrong with their approach as I'm trusting it'll all fit and work well. It was just a tad 'slow' in my eyes.
Could just be a mindset. I actually went in not expecting a good episode. I kind of expected some story telling to set the season up, which it certainly had, but I felt so intrigued by where all this was going moreso than I did before watching the episode.
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I tell you what was cool to see was Gustaf Skarsgård cast as the agent in charge of figuring out what the heck went wrong. I like him a lot from his character as Floki on 'VIKINGS' and was pleasantly surprised to see him in the show. It was odd not hearing him speak in the old Norse dialect that he speaks in on Vikings....and not using his odd mannerisms and what not.
His perfect American accent caught me off guard.
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Yeah same here. Usually with swedish actors you can at least somewhat detect that weird swenglish accent, so it was cool to see him nail it. And yeah the contrast between this character and Floki was weird, but fun.
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Thought it was pretty boring. Hopefully it gets better.
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Thinking about it more, I don't think Delores's 180 degree character switch is sitting all that well with me. She was one of my favorite characters from season 1, but now she feels like some blood thirsty, mass murdering monster.
Yeah she was a slave and everything, but She's become unsympathetic in a way. She's even killing hosts, her own people so to speak. So why I am I supposed to like this person. Not really digging it.
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Thinking about it more, I don't think Delores's 180 degree character switch is sitting all that well with me. She was one of my favorite characters from season 1, but now she feels like some blood thirsty, mass murdering monster.
Yeah she was a slave and everything, but She's become unsympathetic in a way. She's even killing hosts, her own people so to speak. So why I am I supposed to like this person. Not really digging it.
I think that's what bothered me the most as well. I mean, there's still a whole season left for her story but if it's as simple as her just being this cold blooded killer now....that's not really appealing to me. I'd expect more from her character than that. I'm hoping that there is a larger 'plan' for her character.
What I did find interesting was the 'little boy' Robert Ford that was conversing with the Man in Black. I'm wondering if Ford found a way to upload his consciousness? It seemed like 'he' (the kid) was in full understanding of what was going down and knew the MIB and his ultimate goal of the ultimate game.
I'm still holding on to the idea that Ford was cloning himself in that offsite lab and his 'host' was the one who Delores killed.
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I tell you what was cool to see was Gustaf Skarsgård cast as the agent in charge of figuring out what the heck went wrong. I like him a lot from his character as Floki on 'VIKINGS' and was pleasantly surprised to see him in the show. It was odd not hearing him speak in the old Norse dialect that he speaks in on Vikings....and not using his odd mannerisms and what not.
His perfect American accent caught me off guard.
Yea was suprised seeing him in the show. There's actually another swedish actor named Fares Fares in the show. His brother is a famous swedish director that's recently switched too game development fulltime with it's recent game being A Way Out which Fares plays a lead role in. :)
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I liked it and it flew by, to be honest.
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Thinking about it more, I don't think Delores's 180 degree character switch is sitting all that well with me. She was one of my favorite characters from season 1, but now she feels like some blood thirsty, mass murdering monster.
Yeah she was a slave and everything, but She's become unsympathetic in a way. She's even killing hosts, her own people so to speak. So why I am I supposed to like this person. Not really digging it.
I think that's what bothered me the most as well. I mean, there's still a whole season left for her story but if it's as simple as her just being this cold blooded killer now....that's not really appealing to me. I'd expect more from her character than that. I'm hoping that there is a larger 'plan' for her character.
What I did find interesting was the 'little boy' Robert Ford that was conversing with the Man in Black. I'm wondering if Ford found a way to upload his consciousness? It seemed like 'he' (the kid) was in full understanding of what was going down and knew the MIB and his ultimate goal of the ultimate game.
I'm still holding on to the idea that Ford was cloning himself in that offsite lab and his 'host' was the one who Delores killed.
I'll let Delore's story play out a bit more before I say I don't like it, but generally, her cold bloodiness is not really enjoyable, but we may get some explanation at some point so I wont rush to say I dislike her now.
As for the little boy, did you notice that it was like a mixture of the boy, machine, and ford's voice? Thought was was really cool and could see how Ford might have pushed his consciousness onto the boy. I'm also not sold that Ford was killed, but his body looked like it had actually decayed compared to the dead hosts. They made a clear shot of his face to show this. Kind of make me think his human form is dead, but his character likely is not. I got to think he has a host or maybe uploaded himself to another host such as the boy.
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I'll let Delore's story play out a bit more before I say I don't like it, but generally, her cold bloodiness is not really enjoyable, but we may get some explanation at some point so I wont rush to say I dislike her now.
As for the little boy, did you notice that it was like a mixture of the boy, machine, and ford's voice? Thought was was really cool and could see how Ford might have pushed his consciousness onto the boy. I'm also not sold that Ford was killed, but his body looked like it had actually decayed compared to the dead hosts. They made a clear shot of his face to show this. Kind of make me think his human form is dead, but his character likely is not. I got to think he has a host or maybe uploaded himself to another host such as the boy.
Agree on both fronts. I have to trust that they have a grand plan for Delores....so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here. And with Ford, showing his decaying body did kind of squash the 'he built himself as a host to be killed' theory. BUT...with his hybrid voice in the boy host and the way that conversation went with the MIB it does seem like his consciousness or some form of it has been uploaded into the 'system'
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Much more interesting episode.
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Better episode.
The man in black continues to captivate. This is probably my favorite Ed harris character. Right behind Ford, he is my favorite character on the show.
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The man in black continues to captivate. This is probably my favorite Ed harris character. Right behind Ford, he is my favorite character on the show.
Agree. And, call me crazy but his conversation in the saloon led me to believe that he is AI as well? The fact they didn't show how his skin when he used that hand held machine.....he kept using the term 'we' as if he were one of the hosts.....it was odd.
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This show boggles my mind. Really. I have to rewatch these episodes at least twice before I really understand everything. The unclear jumping between past and present for me only makes the show that much more confusing for me.
Very good episode though as always. Lots of mysteries to be solved. Next episode looks like it'll be a doozy.
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This show boggles my mind. Really. I have to rewatch these episodes at least twice before I really understand everything. The unclear jumping between past and present for me only makes the show that much more confusing for me.
Agreed and personally I am having trouble following things. It worked relatively well in season one, but now I can't keep track of things with the time jumps.
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I love the flash backs to the outside world. Really cool to see that. Solid episode.
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This show boggles my mind. Really. I have to rewatch these episodes at least twice before I really understand everything. The unclear jumping between past and present for me only makes the show that much more confusing for me.
Agreed and personally I am having trouble following things. It worked relatively well in season one, but now I can't keep track of things with the time jumps.
Weird, it's the opposite with me. I was totally confused in season 1 and had to re-watch it all. I know with season 2 that they might not explain confusing sections until later in the season so I'm just going with it and enjoying it so far.
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This show boggles my mind. Really. I have to rewatch these episodes at least twice before I really understand everything. The unclear jumping between past and present for me only makes the show that much more confusing for me.
Agreed and personally I am having trouble following things. It worked relatively well in season one, but now I can't keep track of things with the time jumps.
Yea it's a bit confusing at time.
Was wondering what happend to Logan when William tied him to the horse in the park in S01, I assume that when we see him at the cocktail party in the recent episode getting stoned talking to Delores, that's after all that?
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Alt Shift X is doing videos for Westworld again. I don't know how he manages to so perfectly break down everything in these confusing shows but man is it helpful.
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This show boggles my mind. Really. I have to rewatch these episodes at least twice before I really understand everything. The unclear jumping between past and present for me only makes the show that much more confusing for me.
Agreed and personally I am having trouble following things. It worked relatively well in season one, but now I can't keep track of things with the time jumps.
Weird, it's the opposite with me. I was totally confused in season 1 and had to re-watch it all. I know with season 2 that they might not explain confusing sections until later in the season so I'm just going with it and enjoying it so far.
Yea, I think this season so far has been a bit easier to follow, but it's certainly not easy and that's what makes it so good. I'm intrigued by the things I don't know/understand, but after season 1, I think it's easier to accept that I just don't know these things yet.
Alt Shift X is doing videos for Westworld again. I don't know how he manages to so perfectly break down everything in these confusing shows but man is it helpful.
Yea his videos are great and for episode 1, pointing out the brain juice was interesting, totally didn't pick up on that.
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Enjoying the season so far.
It’s a bit hard for me to judge shows like this on an episode-to-episode basis. It’s usually easier to wait until you have the perspective of looking back at an entire season. That said, I really like it thus far.
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After the first episode leaving me utterly bored, I've decided to wait until the season is out before I watch any further. At the moment I've lost all interest in the show and if I have to wait a week after a bad episode I'd just quit the show altogether.
Hope we're not getting another Lost. The first season was near perfect, they should have chosen a completely different storyline or leave it as it is.
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After the first episode leaving me utterly bored, I've decided to wait until the season is out before I watch any further. At the moment I've lost all interest in the show and if I have to wait a week after a bad episode I'd just quit the show altogether.
Hope we're not getting another Lost. The first season was near perfect, they should have chosen a completely different storyline or leave it as it is.
Meh, I'll take another Lost, one of the best shows ever on TV.
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I caught up yesterday with the show. As some of you have pointed out, Delores going bad bitch is not something I'm enjoying much at the time and is the one thing I can point out as the thing that is not letting me enjoy this season as much as I enjoyed last one. However, the rest of what's happening has been interesting and is opening many possible lines. I also think that Ford is somewhere inside the park, not necessarily in the boy, but as a kind of god that can jump between hosts, as he did with the men William was trying to recruit for his campaign.
This is getting my attention and will keep watching, hoping my mind gets played with, just like last season. I mean, Ford had us all for fools once, who's to say he's not doing that again?
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According to the Alt-Shift-X videos, which have really helped me, it seems to make sense so far. She isn't just Dolores, she's infused with Wyatt, who was an evil character. She is both Dolores and Wyatt, and it is the Wyatt code within her that has fueled her massacre spree.
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I also think that Ford is somewhere inside the park, not necessarily in the boy, but as a kind of god that can jump between hosts, as he did with the men William was trying to recruit for his campaign.
This is getting my attention and will keep watching, hoping my mind gets played with, just like last season. I mean, Ford had us all for fools once, who's to say he's not doing that again?
I don't think Ford was jumping between hosts, but the hosts were programmed to act in a way to make William go it alone. Except for Lawrence, who seems to be allowed to follow him along.
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I also think that Ford is somewhere inside the park, not necessarily in the boy, but as a kind of god that can jump between hosts, as he did with the men William was trying to recruit for his campaign.
This is getting my attention and will keep watching, hoping my mind gets played with, just like last season. I mean, Ford had us all for fools once, who's to say he's not doing that again?
I don't think Ford was jumping between hosts, but the hosts were programmed to act in a way to make William go it alone. Except for Lawrence, who seems to be allowed to follow him along.
Maybe that's the case, but I still think Fords consciousness is in the park, not just in one host.
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I also think that Ford is somewhere inside the park, not necessarily in the boy, but as a kind of god that can jump between hosts, as he did with the men William was trying to recruit for his campaign.
This is getting my attention and will keep watching, hoping my mind gets played with, just like last season. I mean, Ford had us all for fools once, who's to say he's not doing that again?
I don't think Ford was jumping between hosts, but the hosts were programmed to act in a way to make William go it alone. Except for Lawrence, who seems to be allowed to follow him along.
Maybe that's the case, but I still think Fords consciousness is in the park, not just in one host.
That's where I'm leaning. I think he found a way to upload his consciousness....after all, that's what they were working towards the entire time. I think he solved it and now has the freedom to 'move' about as he sees fit from host to host. It still wouldn't surprise me if that host he was crafting back in his secret hide out was 'him' or if not a direct representation of him then his future body...that may appear again?
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Got dammit I hate this show. I just realized that basically any of the characters we are seeing could be Ford and that we wouldn't even know it. For example, the security guy that showed up out of nowhere after being captured by rouge guests could easily be Ford.
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Got dammit I hate this show. I just realized that basically any of the characters we are seeing could be Ford and that we wouldn't even know it. For example, the security guy that showed up out of nowhere after being captured by rouge guests could easily be Ford.
Huh? In all probability, Ford likely included a huge program to lead to certain events or prevent certain things. I doubt it's more than that.
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Got dammit I hate this show. I just realized that basically any of the characters we are seeing could be Ford and that we wouldn't even know it. For example, the security guy that showed up out of nowhere after being captured by rouge guests could easily be Ford.
Yea, I am curious to know how he escaped from last season and what his story is now. I'm still not sure what to think about Ford just yet. He seems to be showing up in other hosts, but I don't know if that's his consciousness or just the way he programmed things before he "died"
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Unless I've missed something, Ford has only "shown up" in one host... The Young Ford that MiB killed. I believe the others who keep telling him "this game is meant for you" were programmed that way.
Someone said that, after Ford's update, the hosts now read everyone else as hosts. Could it be that the hosts were programmed to know about MiB and given information on what his "loop" is supposed to be?
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So in the premiere episode, what was the deal with Bernard needing the white fluid from another host. Is that what they "eat" or need for sustenance? And if so, would Delores and all the other hosts need to "recharge" or whatever too?
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So in the premiere episode, what was the deal with Bernard needing the white fluid from another host. Is that what they "eat" or need for sustenance? And if so, would Delores and all the other hosts need to "recharge" or whatever too?
I think it's because he's a little damaged from when he shot himself in season 1, and the fluid leaking out of his ears in season 2 shows that. So the fluid is necessary for everything to function normally.
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Unless I've missed something, Ford has only "shown up" in one host... The Young Ford that MiB killed. I believe the others who keep telling him "this game is meant for you" were programmed that way.
Someone said that, after Ford's update, the hosts now read everyone else as hosts. Could it be that the hosts were programmed to know about MiB and given information on what his "loop" is supposed to be?
That could also be the case. I don't have any supporting evidence to my claim about Ford, it's just a theory.
So in the premiere episode, what was the deal with Bernard needing the white fluid from another host. Is that what they "eat" or need for sustenance? And if so, would Delores and all the other hosts need to "recharge" or whatever too?
If you recall the scene at the barn, Bernard was losing fluid through his ear so it stands to reason that he needed to replace it. I don't think that's something hosts need to do periodically though, just in extreme cases like that.
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So in the premiere episode, what was the deal with Bernard needing the white fluid from another host. Is that what they "eat" or need for sustenance? And if so, would Delores and all the other hosts need to "recharge" or whatever too?
I think it's because he's a little damaged from when he shot himself in season 1, and the fluid leaking out of his ears in season 2 shows that. So the fluid is necessary for everything to function normally.
That’s how I saw it. I’m assuming that fluid is like what oil is to a car engine. without it....it’s going to fail
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I really enjoyed episode #3 tonight. Ended on an exciting cliffhanger for next week. Good story arc with Dolores in this one.
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The Delos security squads are really dumb. They march on foot toward a barricaded fort with soldiers lined up shooting at them. They seriously don't have any drones or anything that can drop a bomb or perhaps trigger an EMP pulse or something. I don't buy any of their tactics and they've been getting their asses handed to them since day 1 of this revolt. Like why the hell is the actual underground facility still not completely secured by now? Why aren't the entrances to the underground locked down and secured? I don't buy any of it.
And oh, you've just got to love Delores. She tricks all these hosts into trusting her. (her people by the way). They willingly follow her lead thinking she's a worthwhile leader and then starts spouting some genocide BS. "The truth is we don't all deserve to make it" wow, what a great leader for the hosts, especially right after they gave their lives to protect her and follow her plan. To hell with her character. At least Teddy is starting to wake up to her bullshit.
It was cool seeing Bengal tiger world though.
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I really enjoyed episode #3 tonight. Ended on an exciting cliffhanger for next week. Good story arc with Dolores in this one.
ehh....I was impartial to it. Thought last weeks was really good but this weeks episode reminded me of episode 1. Wasn't 'bad' per say but all in all I didn't see a whole lot that really wow'd me.
I guess it's because I really am put off by the Wyatt personality of Dolores. I just can't get on board with her blood lust. I get that she rightfully has issues to hash out with mankind now that she's awake.....but I'm not a big fan of the direction they're taking her character. It's off-putting to me.
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Dolores HAD to sacrifice those men in order to both take out the Delos forces AND save her own men. She knew there was no fighting their weapons and vehicles, so she used the "expendables" as a meat shield until she could set off the nitro. Wyatt is stone cold.
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Dolores HAD to sacrifice those men in order to both take out the Delos forces AND save her own men. She knew there was no fighting their weapons and vehicles, so she used the "expendables" as a meat shield until she could set off the nitro. Wyatt is stone cold.
I understand the purpose behind it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Evan Rachel Wood isn't selling me the Wyatt character. I don't 'feel' like she's anything other than a pissed off Dolores rather than the Wyatt program/person. It's not connecting with me at all and seems really out of place.
They've don'e a great job with Maeve's progression to sentient......completely buy her current frame of mind and actions. Not 'getting' the Dolores story at all and I think it comes down to the acting of the part.
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I was responding more to Phoenix, actually, but yeah, I see where you're coming from. I'm not 100% sure on everything myself, but I'm also not dwelling too heavily on it because I have a feeling they are purposely trying to misdirect the audience and bring up questions that won't be answered for a long time. I'm putting my faith in the show to wrap it up cleanly especially given how much time they've spent on producing this show already.
I'm actually not crazy about Maeve, so I'm opposite of you, gmd! She seems even more cold and detached than Dolores - at least we saw some humanity from Dolores last episode with her dad and all that.
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I'm actually not crazy about Maeve, so I'm opposite of you, gmd! She seems even more cold and detached than Dolores - at least we saw some humanity from Dolores last episode with her dad and all that.
I think with Maeve though we witnessed that progression to that character. With Dolores, despite the last time we saw her being when she murdered Ford (basically because he wanted her to) she was more or less 'caring' and had a soft human element. Then BOOM.....out of the gate this year she's this stone cold murderous villain. Just seemed like a quick jump from what we knew of her to what she is now.
I agree with you as far as trusting the show. I'm not trying to bag on the show because it's still good and given what they gave us last year I'm sure they have a plan. I'm just not connecting with the Dolores arc yet.
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Do you (or anyone else) know how much time has passed between the seasons? I think they said it was a couple weeks since "something" happened, but I'm not sure if that's exact.
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I actually like the whole Dolores thing.
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Do you (or anyone else) know how much time has passed between the seasons? I think they said it was a couple weeks since "something" happened, but I'm not sure if that's exact.
The first episode had two timelines. One that started immediately after the finale that follows Bernard and Hale back to the bunker, and the other about two weeks after the finale when the security detail shows up in the park.
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Do you (or anyone else) know how much time has passed between the seasons? I think they said it was a couple weeks since "something" happened, but I'm not sure if that's exact.
The first episode had two timelines. One that started immediately after the finale that follows Bernard and Hale back to the bunker, and the other about two weeks after the finale when the security detail shows up in the park.
Cool, that's what I thought. Right on.
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Oh man. What an awesome new episode. Best of the season. William and James, those scenes are fascinating as hell. Guy who plays James shows some wonderful acting. I might watch it again in a few. There's a lot to unpack.
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Oh man. What an awesome new episode. Best of the season. William and James, those scenes are fascinating as hell. Guy who plays James shows some wonderful acting. I might watch it again in a few. There's a lot to unpack.
Yeah, by far the best episode yet. Well acted, well written....and pretty cool revelations.
Heard a theory that the Indian hosts are kind of a default protection program for humans. That being the reason they are only killing hosts and not real people. Seems like that could hold some merit.
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Such an awesome episode. definitely my favorite episode of season 2 and maybe one of my favorite WW episodes ever. Across the board, there were strong characters with strong motivations, and development. I ate it up.
William is my favorite character currently. Both young and old. He's so compelling. He's now developing, growing, learning and I love that. I love how they subtlety aged him when dealing with the clone.
This whole clone thing is very interesting. Now its getting very compelling.
Everything was awesome about this episode from the music, to the story, to the beautiful cinematography. So awesome.
And I love the rolling stones, but didn't know about that cool song.
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This is the most interesting television show I think I've ever seen. Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad are my favorites, but the enormity of the concepts they're addressing in this show takes some serious thinking and an incredibly amount of planning to pull off. I am so excited to see where the story goes now. I watched the episode again last night and there are so, so many moments of awesome acting and dialogue.
"You think you know death, but you don't. You didn't recognize him sitting across from you this whole time."
The actors who play Bernard and James actually made me giddy with their portrayals of androids glitching out, stuttering and struggling to make certain movements or expressions. There's Emmy-level acting all over this show.
The theory about the native tribes is cool. I didn't fully catch it, did they actually try to slit Ashley's throat, or did they pull away? It would make sense if somehow their weapons could only attack the hosts, but I'm not sure, I'll have to watch the episode again tonight.
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Wondering if the 'consciousness' or whatever that was that Bernard was instructed to create and get for Ford was actually Ford's Code? Maybe he's perfected what William and DELOS couldn't?
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Wondering if the 'consciousness' or whatever that was that Bernard was instructed to create and get for Ford was actually Ford's Code? Maybe he's perfected what William and DELOS couldn't?
That's definitely what I was thinking. Maybe Ford didn't mind dying, since he may live forever? We shall see
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There seem to be two big thematic plots in this show and I'm trying to figure out which is more important: Robert Ford's 'maze' which has helped breathe consciousness into Westworld's hosts, or Delos and the pursuit of eternal life? It seems as if Ford's is more central to the show because it has driven the host rebellion, but season 2 is leaning heavily into the Delos story.
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Loved the episode. I'd been sort of this way that way on new episodes while still watching but they did a few things right:
Bring Elsie (one of my favorite characters) back and watching the frustrating struggle of her trying to rely on the thing that put her in that position as a source of truth as to what is going on. I still had my hands on my head as she shot the lock open but she has a bit of "I don't give a fuck" in her so it wasn't totally out of character. Selfishlessly I think she's too cute to kill off which made last seasons now fakeout a bit of a bummer but she has some cool dynamics to her that I like.
They gave older William's character a good bit of depth with what he did. It may have been a bit telegraphed with the way the pre-shootout scene was progressing but damn did I smile watching that. The capper with Ford assuming the essence of the children in this world made it even that much better.
The ending scene was worth it because in a review I read it helps that they didn't drag something (long lost daughter) that takes most shows a whole season to crutch on and just sort of bluntly merges it into the bigger picture and helps speculate towards the future. I'm not sure what Grace offers but I have a feeling that she may have always grown up in the park in some capacity so this is the only world(s) she knows.
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I was really surprised when they strait up killed the James Delos clone. I was half expecting them to let him escape somehow and then William would have to face the monster he created, but oh well. It was still a kick ass episode.
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There seem to be two big thematic plots in this show and I'm trying to figure out which is more important: Robert Ford's 'maze' which has helped breathe consciousness into Westworld's hosts, or Delos and the pursuit of eternal life? It seems as if Ford's is more central to the show because it has driven the host rebellion, but season 2 is leaning heavily into the Delos story.
which makes me think that given Ford knew how badly Delos wanted his research/intellectual property etc. that Ford had to have known 'why'.....and had to have known what William was up to the whole time and would lead me to speculate he mastered what they could not.
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anyone catch what the Indian leader whispered into that dudes ear? It was in English but I didn't make it out.
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"you live only as long as the last person who remembers you,” which I think is a very cool line
and I don't buy that Logan died of just an overdose. I think that was a lie. Part of me thinks he disappeared into the park (Ghost nation perhaps?)
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"you live only as long as the last person who remembers you,” which I think is a very cool line
and I don't buy that Logan died of just an overdose. I think that was a lie. Part of me thinks he disappeared into the park (Ghost nation perhaps?)
That is a cool line. Speaks even more to something Ford would say/program.
I'm with you.....there's no way Logan just died of an overdose. Too 'simple' for this show
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If you notice when William is talking to James, he tells him how his wife is dead, his daughter killed herself, and Logan overdosed. Right after he says that Logan OD'd, William says, "Your wife's gone... Juliet's gone... Nobody's coming to help you." The first thing I thought is that he didn't say Logan is dead. Maybe it's implied by saying he overdosed, but I think this show really takes advantage of the assumptions people make.
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Yea I noticed that as well, described them all as dead except Logan. I don't think he's dead because of the wording.
Awesome episode. I really love the scenes outside the park (well, the scenes with James/Williams were inside but you know what I mean). Learning more about how to put a human's mind into a host is really interesting. Definitely think Ford figured this out and is the reason why Delos wants his data.
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Anybody else ever see the 1973 movie?
I just watched it. Not bad, but it really pales in comparison to the show. Everything about the movie is very basic or base level. No metaphors, no allegories, nothing deep. Just an uber straitforward story. And the hosts are VERY rudimentary. Even when movie MIB finds the underground, he doesn't even question anything.
It also had a pretty strong Terminator 1 vibe toward the end, which was pretty cool. Overall, I am glad I watched it, but its definitely not essential viewing.
*Random thought. I am glad the show decided to call them hosts. The movie just says robots and its just kind of meh naming. And they certainly act like robots.
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I never saw the movie, but I understand there was a second not as well recieved movie that the show is kind of digging into. I wonder if that's worth watching in terms of having a better understanding of where the show may go? I don't plan on watching it though (or the original movie).
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I think I am gonna do a re-watch of season 1. Just started with episode one and WOW what a difference. My first time watching episode one, I was deeply confused and really didn't like it. I almost didn't even continue with the series, but I'm glad I did.
But damn, Episode 1 is so much more enjoyable now. It makes perfect sense.
And I just realized that what's his face is Trevor from GTA 5
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And William is Liam McPoyle from Always Sunny!
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Finally caught up on Season 2 so far, and damn it's still such a great show. Episode 4 was especially awesome.
Wondering if the 'consciousness' or whatever that was that Bernard was instructed to create and get for Ford was actually Ford's Code? Maybe he's perfected what William and DELOS couldn't?
That's definitely what I was thinking. Maybe Ford didn't mind dying, since he may live forever? We shall see
This is certainly my assumption. But it's definitely implied, so I would imagine there'll be a twist of some kind. Could be something along the lines of what Nekov speculated earlier in the season, that Ford's consciousness is not just in one host but can be anywhere in the park.
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Out of all of the old timey covers they've done in this series, the one they just did of C.R.E.A.M. made me the happiest.
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Great episode, loved it. Very cool to see Shogunworld finally. A couple of big 'oh shit!' moments toward the end. Loving this season.
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Well, this series has officially gone mental, and it was very awesome. Shogun world... damn. Wow. And them re-creating the safe stealing scene :lol
And as if I didn't hate Delores enough as I already did. Here's a guy that genuinely loves you and you destroy him for you own selfish, genocidal, tyrannical megalomania. Just die already. You aren't needed. This is Maeve's story.
And speaking of maeve. Not sure how I feel about her jedi mind trick, next level super power. Hopefully its not too OP, but we'll see.
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Missed last weeks episode, so I'll have to do a catch up tomorrow.
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Out of all of the old timey covers they've done in this series, the one they just did of C.R.E.A.M. made me the happiest.
That was so awesome
(https://media.giphy.com/media/BMrJzUlkcjdg4/giphy.gif)
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Well, this series has officially gone mental, and it was very awesome. Shogun world... damn. Wow. And them re-creating the safe stealing scene :lol
And as if I didn't hate Delores enough as I already did. Here's a guy that genuinely loves you and you destroy him for you own selfish, genocidal, tyrannical megalomania. Just die already. You aren't needed. This is Maeve's story.
And speaking of maeve. Not sure how I feel about her jedi mind trick, next level super power. Hopefully its not too OP, but we'll see.
Yeah....I’m still not on board with this Dolores angle. She seems more ‘robotic’ than ever. For a host who has supposed to have ‘woken up’ and is free she sure is acting like she’s just carrying out a programmed mission.
Maeve on the other hand is acting like a person. Not sure what this new power is that she’s found though. Seems pretty convenient.
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I gotta admit, I don't give a shit about Dolores anymore. Especially after last night's episode. That surely can't be the angle they're purposely trying to go for given everything in season 1, is it? Regardless, Maeve - despite not being all that interested in her arc - has been growing on me and last night's episode might have made her one of my favorites now. She's no William/MIB but I'm finally starting to really enjoy her - a tradeoff for Dolores's arc becoming confusing, maybe.
Also, how brutal was that last death? Jeeeeesus!
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Well, this series has officially gone mental, and it was very awesome. Shogun world... damn. Wow. And them re-creating the safe stealing scene :lol
And as if I didn't hate Delores enough as I already did. Here's a guy that genuinely loves you and you destroy him for you own selfish, genocidal, tyrannical megalomania. Just die already. You aren't needed. This is Maeve's story.
And speaking of maeve. Not sure how I feel about her jedi mind trick, next level super power. Hopefully its not too OP, but we'll see.
Yeah....I’m still not on board with this Dolores angle. She seems more ‘robotic’ than ever. For a host who has supposed to have ‘woken up’ and is free she sure is acting like she’s just carrying out a programmed mission.
Maeve on the other hand is acting like a person. Not sure what this new power is that she’s found though. Seems pretty convenient.
Oh I definitely agree. What's cool about Maeve is that she woke herself up. The wasn't this constant coaxing from Arnold and then Ford. Like Delores gets this this huge "maze" path to follow and she wakes up into being a maniac, where as Maeve feels so genuine and much more interesting, and she did it on her own. She's someone that I can root for and someone I respect.
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I don't really understand the grumpyness towards Dolores/Wyatt. I'm finding it an interesting story, and inevitable consequence of what happened in season 1 (Ford uploading the Wyatt personality and then waking her and the others up). The Wyatt side of her personality is clearly dominant but there are hints of Dolores still there and I'm wondering if there'll effectively be a tussle between the two at some point.
Maeve continues to be an excellent character. Her new "power" thing is clearly by tapping into the wireless mesh or whatever it was that was mentioned in an earlier episode, which allows low level digital communications between hosts so that narratives don't disrupt each other. Makes sense she alone would be able to do that after she got herself admin privileges in season 1.
My favourite character is still Bernard though.
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I stated earlier my deal with Dolores is based off of she seems more robotic now that any of the ‘awake’ hosts. All her dialogue is monotone.....her one track mind on this revenge mission.....she just feels less alive than she did in season 1.
I’m less interested in her aspect in the show than I am of the MIB, Maeve and Bernard. Whereas last year she had a compelling storyline.
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Delores used to be one of my favorite characters, but now she's a murderous, unsympathetic, genocidal maniac. Delores murders random humans, guns down her fellow people (the hosts) and now she is enacting the same mind control she's rebelling against on the one person that truly loved her. She is an untrustworthy, hypocritically, tyrannical scumbag.
So yeah, I want nothing to do with any of that. I actually hope the first thing that reprogrammed Alpha Teddy does is shoot her in the head. You want a madman just like you Delores? maybe be careful what you wish for.
(https://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc55/black_floyd_2007/vomit.gif) (https://s213.photobucket.com/user/black_floyd_2007/media/vomit.gif.html)Delores
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Glad I'm not the only one who still likes Dolores. I'm with ariich on this one.
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I'm confident there will be some answers by the end of the season, particularly for Dolores - at least I hope. I was confused as all get out during season 1 until the finale answered some burning questions.
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Glad I'm not the only one who still likes Dolores. I'm with ariich on this one.
It's not a matter of not liking her for me. I'm sure there's a purpose behind her dramatic turn of character. Having Wyatt uploaded into her is certainly a major factor. For me, it's just not as interesting of a story line as the MIB's, Bernard's or Maeve's. Those three characters seem to have more depth to the story being told through them this season rather than what's being done with Dolores.
Like Kattoelox said.....I'm sure by the end of the season her arc and that story will flush itself out but right now she's last on my list of what I'm really interested in this season.
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Got caught up. Like others, the Delores storyline is dragging a bit for me as well, but damn does Maeve's story make up for it. Thinking of re-watching the first five episodes to make sure I'm up to snuff for the second half, this show is so damn intricate I always feel like I'm missing something.
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My friends are hating on this season big time... I tried explaining to the best of my abilities what is going on, but they straight up don't like it. I don't understand why. Dolores's arc is a bit dry and one note but otherwise this is some really good stuff. I can't wait for tonight's episode. We still have over 5 hours of storytelling left :corn
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My friends are hating on this season big time... I tried explaining to the best of my abilities what is going on, but they straight up don't like it. I don't understand why. Dolores's arc is a bit dry and one note but otherwise this is some really good stuff. I can't wait for tonight's episode. We still have over 5 hours of storytelling left :corn
Yeah. Even with the (perfect description BTW) dry arc of Dolores this has been a pretty good season thus far.
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To reference a scene from one of the earlier episodes, when the Delos security force was storming the fort and Delores had the nitroglycerin blow up and kill a bunch of them I was actually sort of bummed out because it seemed like the writers almost wanted you to root for her team but I just wanted the Delos team to come in and decimate everyone. There was nothing likeable about her little rebellion to make you want to root for her and what the writers clearly had planned as this "fuck yeah!" moment that was more of a dud than anything.
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Great episode tonight although it made me wonder what the whole point of the Shogun World arc was in the long run other than acting as kind of a character development subplot for Maeve? It was really cool, and that duel was brutal, but I do hope there's more of Shogun World in the future with respect to the larger story. It's too interesting (imo) to leave at that.
Also, hell of an ending. It's still fresh so I won't spoil but wow I'm hyped.
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Great episode tonight although it made me wonder what the whole point of the Shogun World arc was in the long run other than acting as kind of a character development subplot for Maeve? It was really cool, and that duel was brutal, but I do hope there's more of Shogun World in the future with respect to the larger story. It's too interesting (imo) to leave at that.
Also, hell of an ending. It's still fresh so I won't spoil but wow I'm hyped.
Totally agree with you on Shogun World, there better be much more to it than that.
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Not sure about the Shogun world either? Maybe it was just there as a step of Maeve’s evolution of her mind control? Or, to show the hosts are making choices of their own by staying behind and choosing their own path? Who knows?
Also, that ending was awesome! Was curious as to if he’d make an appearance this season....been waiting for that.
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I love Alpha Teddy. He don't take no shit. "Thought I would never leave this place, but I guess you fixed that too" Get her Teddy
I could definitely see him turning on her and trying to take power when the timing is right
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Also confused about the Shogun World story. That was strange, if there isn’t any more that is.
Also, something occurred to me now. Am I the only one who sees Dolores as the villain of this story, not the hero? You guys speak of ”rooting for her”, but I’m questioning if that’s the point. Am I onto something here or nah? Perhaps that might explain why I have no issues with her story and it seems that many of you do, because I’m really diggin’ it.
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Also confused about the Shogun World story. That was strange, if there isn’t any more that is.
Also, something occurred to me now. Am I the only one who sees Dolores as the villain of this story, not the hero? You guys speak of ”rooting for her”, but I’m questioning if that’s the point. Am I onto something here or nah? Perhaps that might explain why I have no issues with her story and it seems that many of you do, because I’m really diggin’ it.
I've been trying to think of 'heroes' and 'villains' on this show and I've realized I either just don't properly understand the characters, or they're purposely making them complicated enough to avoid such labels. I see Dolores and Ford as the villains (whereas Dolores was a protagonist in the first season). I initially saw William as ???, then a villain (once it was revealed he is the MIB), now a kind of anti-hero in season 2. I'm still not sure what to think of Maeve. Bernard and Elsie are protagonists I suppose? I only have an issue with Dolores's arc because it seems to be all Wyatt and no Dolores, but maybe they're trying to make that contrast with Maeve clear (Maeve seems more 'real' and organic with her thoughts, and allows other hosts to choose their fate, whereas Dolores is hard set in her disposition and where she stands against humans).
Basically, I'm rooting for the Man In Black, turning against Dolores and her battalion of death machines, and not really sure what to think about Maeve. I guess Bernard and Elsie could be considered protagonists? Not certain about them either, but I do hope they stay safe, because I really like Bernard and those two play off each other well.
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Also confused about the Shogun World story. That was strange, if there isn’t any more that is.
Also, something occurred to me now. Am I the only one who sees Dolores as the villain of this story, not the hero? You guys speak of ”rooting for her”, but I’m questioning if that’s the point. Am I onto something here or nah? Perhaps that might explain why I have no issues with her story and it seems that many of you do, because I’m really diggin’ it.
I've been trying to think of 'heroes' and 'villains' on this show and I've realized I either just don't properly understand the characters, or they're purposely making them complicated enough to avoid such labels. I see Dolores and Ford as the villains (whereas Dolores was a protagonist in the first season). I initially saw William as ???, then a villain (once it was revealed he is the MIB), now a kind of anti-hero in season 2. I'm still not sure what to think of Maeve. Bernard and Elsie are protagonists I suppose? I only have an issue with Dolores's arc because it seems to be all Wyatt and no Dolores, but maybe they're trying to make that contrast with Maeve clear (Maeve seems more 'real' and organic with her thoughts, and allows other hosts to choose their fate, whereas Dolores is hard set in her disposition and where she stands against humans).
Basically, I'm rooting for the Man In Black, turning against Dolores and her battalion of death machines, and not really sure what to think about Maeve. I guess Bernard and Elsie could be considered protagonists? Not certain about them either, but I do hope they stay safe, because I really like Bernard and those two play off each other well.
Yeah....there is no clear cut hero or villain to be seen. The lines have been blurred so well that in any given moment or episode the 'main' characters could be either. They've done a good job of creating that 'mood' around them all.
Very curious to see/hear the conversation between Ford and Bernard in the saloon.
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Also confused about the Shogun World story. That was strange, if there isn’t any more that is.
Also, something occurred to me now. Am I the only one who sees Dolores as the villain of this story, not the hero? You guys speak of ”rooting for her”, but I’m questioning if that’s the point. Am I onto something here or nah? Perhaps that might explain why I have no issues with her story and it seems that many of you do, because I’m really diggin’ it.
She's an absolute villain in my eyes and I look forward to seeing her go down. I don't care that she was "oppressed" or whatever. that doesn't give you license to go on a genocidal crusade. In contrast Maeve is who I can root for as a hero, or a protagonist. She was also "oppressed" but yet is working toward something positive.
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I'm gonna throw this out there: I think Teddy Redux is gonna bring the Dolores back out. Dolores is fighting between Wyatt's programming and Dolores's programming, and Teddy being so dangerous and cold seems to shock even her. Maybe there will be a point in the future where the 'Dolores' side regrets making Teddy so deadly, or changing him in the first place. I think it would be interesting if instead of achieving full 'true' consciousness, it just ends up being a battle of multiple personalities, maybe some schizophrenia, between Dolores and Wyatt.
I'm probably 100% wrong, though (and I hope I am, because every twist and turn has been great so far).
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Also, something occurred to me now. Am I the only one who sees Dolores as the villain of this story, not the hero? You guys speak of ”rooting for her”, but I’m questioning if that’s the point. Am I onto something here or nah? Perhaps that might explain why I have no issues with her story and it seems that many of you do, because I’m really diggin’ it.
I think part of the issue is that some people are looking for "heroes" or "villains" which has never been the point of the show.
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Also this is looking rather prescient:
I also think that Ford is somewhere inside the park, not necessarily in the boy, but as a kind of god that can jump between hosts, as he did with the men William was trying to recruit for his campaign.
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Not only are the Delos folks stormtrooper levels of marksmen but why do they even both wearing armor? They get wasted in like one or two shots.
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Just wrapped up the new episode. Immediate thoughts: I'm a little confused by the timeline so I'm going to replay it in a few minutes. But that was an amazing episode, so much to unpack, and a lot of moments that had me on the edge of my seat. Damn that was fun.
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God damn. What an episode :metal
Not only are the Delos folks stormtrooper levels of marksmen but why do they even both wearing armor? They get wasted in like one or two shots.
At this point its beyond believable for me. How can these security forces be such total shit? They started with automatic, high tech weapons, with future armor and shit and were originally going up against wild west people with six shooters. Remember WWI, you know, the first time people on horse back went up against automatic weapons? didn't turn out so well and I'm just not buying it. But whatever. Everything else was awesome.
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The hosts' abilities have been heightened. Perception, cruelty, all that stuff. Superhuman abilities. See: how Teddy beat the living daylights out of the chief. Angry robot strength. That's what I attribute it all to, anyway.
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The hosts' abilities have been heightened. Perception, cruelty, all that stuff. Superhuman abilities. See: how Teddy beat the living daylights out of the chief. Angry robot strength. That's what I attribute it all to, anyway.
Yeah, now that I think about it more. That makes a lot more sense. They are basically terminators.
I really loved that episode though. Terminator teddy is awesome and Its sooo good having hopkins again
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So Ford hitchikes out of the hive in Bernards mind because he knows (probably directed) Dolores is going to come and blow it up.
Does that mean that Bernard is now going to start going skitzo like Dolores’ Dad? He basically has (2) ‘minds’ now....one of which is a former human mind now electronically copied.
Speaking of Ford....it seem like even he has gone all ‘Wyatt’.....very brutal and out for blood. Curious as to if that’s some sort of indicator that AI (or whatever it is) can’t interpret some aspects of humanity and just defaults to over the top violence.
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I'm really curious if you copy your consciousness, but your original body/mind dies then I guess "you" are dead, or your current experienced consciousness is gone. The copy is just that, a copy. It is you in a way, but you prime's experience of reality is ceased.
So in a way you are living forever, but its not really you, its your copy. But that's kind of what kids are anyway. A partial genetic copy of you, that live on after "you" die, where as in this case, its a full copy of you living on after "you" die.
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I was so hoping that Dolores was gonna carve up Charlotte also. I thought that was the end of her for sure. She's a little :censored
And, how many gunshot wounds is that now for the MIB? That was (4) in the last episode alone. Didn't he have one or two from the previous episodes? You'd think he'd bleed out by now. I'm sure his daughter will find him and patch him up....but he was gut shot this last time so if he's doing anything but laying around in the upcoming episodes it'll be tough to believe.
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I mostly really liked the last episode.
Making Ford super blood thirsty was...I dunno....I didn't like it.
But then when Bernard "woke up" in that office near the end, I just got completely confused. The hell is real and made up?
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I was so hoping that Dolores was gonna carve up Charlotte also. I thought that was the end of her for sure. She's a little :censored
And, how many gunshot wounds is that now for the MIB? That was (4) in the last episode alone. Didn't he have one or two from the previous episodes? You'd think he'd bleed out by now. I'm sure his daughter will find him and patch him up....but he was gut shot this last time so if he's doing anything but laying around in the upcoming episodes it'll be tough to believe.
He did take a health pack earlier in the season - maybe he used that?
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I was so hoping that Dolores was gonna carve up Charlotte also. I thought that was the end of her for sure. She's a little :censored
And, how many gunshot wounds is that now for the MIB? That was (4) in the last episode alone. Didn't he have one or two from the previous episodes? You'd think he'd bleed out by now. I'm sure his daughter will find him and patch him up....but he was gut shot this last time so if he's doing anything but laying around in the upcoming episodes it'll be tough to believe.
He did take a health pack earlier in the season - maybe he used that?
His first wound from the initial Host rebellion he did stop and find that health pack. But still....it's a gunshot wound.....then add those from last episodes. He's a human, not a host. He should be hurting a ton and left unchecked should die for sure.
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Maybe William is a host. :hat
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Maybe William is a host. :hat
The thought did cross my mind. Maybe he never let on to anyone that he perfected the 'project' and just hasn't shared the fix?
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Maybe William is a host. :hat
The thought did cross my mind. Maybe he never let on to anyone that he perfected the 'project' and just hasn't shared the fix?
Now that would be a cool reveal...
Speaking of William, I loved watching him deal with Lawrence and Maeve after he got badly wounded. When Lawrence turns on him, he rolls his eyes and goes, "Christ... I'll do it myself" - such a William move. Ed Harris rules. I really hope he doesn't die and that there's a solid explanation for how he gets away; he's too important to kill off so early.
Although I was almost positive Maeve was gonna bite it especially after the humans swooped in and rained shit upon everyone.
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Maybe William is a host. :hat
The thought did cross my mind. Maybe he never let on to anyone that he perfected the 'project' and just hasn't shared the fix?
Now that would be a cool reveal...
Speaking of William, I loved watching him deal with Lawrence and Maeve after he got badly wounded. When Lawrence turns on him, he rolls his eyes and goes, "Christ... I'll do it myself" - such a William move. Ed Harris rules. I really hope he doesn't die and that there's a solid explanation for how he gets away; he's too important to kill off so early.
Although I was almost positive Maeve was gonna bite it especially after the humans swooped in and rained shit upon everyone.
As far as William I'd be willing to bet his daughter will be the one to patch him up and save his life.
I thought the same about Maeve as well....but was then thinking that have been pretty much a waste of a storyline with her 'ability' and all that. I'm really curious about next weeks Native American slant. They've played a major role in the show thus far but have been pretty much an afterthought as far as any attention being given to them.
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I'm looking forward to that. Akecheta is a character I think we definitely need to see more of. I imagine it'll be a 'take a few breaths' kind of episode, coming off the heels of such an intense, deep episode 7. I hope I'm wrong though :)
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The hosts' abilities have been heightened. Perception, cruelty, all that stuff. Superhuman abilities. See: how Teddy beat the living daylights out of the chief. Angry robot strength. That's what I attribute it all to, anyway.
I can buy that to an extent but even so this seemingly elite security team should be able to at least put up somewhat of a fight. I thought the one guy getting seduced by a host bit to be somewhat lame as while he may be a horny guy you'd assume they would be aware as a team that these hosts aren't normal and they should be on their guard. Also it doesn't help that I have no sympathy toward the Delores/Wyatt crew and are actually hoping they get wiped out. It almost seems like you should be rooting for them but there's not really a likeable one of them in the bunch. When it comes to their storyline I'm all for the human characters regardless of how scummy the show tries to make them out.
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All caught up and enjoying the show. Nothing further to add at this point... lol so many questions for this season still.
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Y’all can say whatever you want, but I think Dolores is fantastic. Although yeah that soldier getting seduced was probably the dumbest thing on the show so far. Horny, sure, but you’ve literally just witnessed these things kill your friends and now suddenly one of the wants to touch your dick, and you actually roll with it? Come on..
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Crazy episode, finally caught back up and that last scene really has me confused as to what is going on really, but I was totally loving the episode up to that confusion point. The Ford and Bernard scenes were excellent as well as the William and Maeve scene. Just so much going on and wrapping things together in such a way that was starting to make sense. I really loved how William was calling Maeve Ford too. If William survives I hope there's some good explanation because I also am not a fan of him getting shot so much and left out there just for some cheap recovery. I can't stand these type of "cliffhangers" where we all know he isn't going to die yet you left him in such a situation where he should die. Dolores was pretty bad ass and I am starting to dig her character a bit more now. She has seemed a bit more "human" with her father and realizing what she did to Teddy. I do wish she killed Charlotte though. That scene was also really good and had me at the edge of my seat.
I don't know what to think about the scenes for next week. Looks like a one off episode focusing away from what we just saw but might give some good explanation to the rest of the westworld world.
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It's killing me not being able to discuss this. I'm still an episode behind. Victoria's CEO put her in charge of a new enterprise-wide initiative at her job, and she's been working 8am-10pm for the last 6-8 weeks. We haven't had time to watch it together, and I'm afraid if I progress without her, she'll cut my nuts off in my sleep. We were able to get caught up on Sunday during a hangover recovery day after a wedding the night before, but we weren't able to watch that night's episode.
I'm absolutely loving this season. The scene where Logan got sold on the park at the cocktail party might be my favorite scene of the series so far.
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Although yeah that soldier getting seduced was probably the dumbest thing on the show so far. Horny, sure, but you’ve literally just witnessed these things kill your friends and now suddenly one of the wants to touch your dick, and you actually roll with it? Come on..
I dunno about that, they'd already established pretty well earlier in the episode that the soldier character was a sociopathic dick who was really looking forward to killing hosts. I thought that scene fit the character perfectly. Still raises the question of why such a lunatic is in this elite squad, but then maybe its not really such an elite squad after all. They all come across as pretty mercenary so I get the impression they're off-the-books.
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All caught up. Man is this show good. Now time to go back and catch up on all the discussion I wasn't able to be a part of :(
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@ariich
I mean, sure, but personally I feel this isn’t just ’sociopathic dick’-stuff, it’s just plain old stupid. Over the limit that I felt I could suspend my disbelief for.
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I chalk it up to Angela/Talulah Riley being distractingly hot, which, well, she is :biggrin:
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Not sure about the Shogun world either? Maybe it was just there as a step of Maeve’s evolution of her mind control? Or, to show the hosts are making choices of their own by staying behind and choosing their own path? Who knows?
Also, that ending was awesome! Was curious as to if he’d make an appearance this season....been waiting for that.
I'm guessing Shogun World was there as much for HBO as it was the fans or the story line. We got a small taste of the idea that there are other parks. We got just enough to create some excitement and for HBO to gauge whether or not the exploration of other parks would be something the fans were interested in. If fans are receptive to new parks, characters, and arcs, HBO can basically do whatever they want with the story.
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Although yeah that soldier getting seduced was probably the dumbest thing on the show so far. Horny, sure, but you’ve literally just witnessed these things kill your friends and now suddenly one of the wants to touch your dick, and you actually roll with it? Come on..
I dunno about that, they'd already established pretty well earlier in the episode that the soldier character was a sociopathic dick who was really looking forward to killing hosts. I thought that scene fit the character perfectly. Still raises the question of why such a lunatic is in this elite squad, but then maybe its not really such an elite squad after all. They all come across as pretty mercenary so I get the impression they're off-the-books.
Bingo! I watched a youtube video theory that Charlotte is trying to steal the data for a 3rd party and those guys didn't have any Delos logos on their outfits and clearly put Stubbs to the back telling his men to stop working on communications and get out of the way. This video is very good and seems very plausible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNnelCaxv5s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNnelCaxv5s)
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Interesting episode, but I have to watch it again. I didn't give it half the attention it deserved, and missed probably two thirds of the subtitled dialogue, so when the reveal hit at the end, I was kind of lost.
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Even though I enjoyed the episode, I can see a lot of people hating it.
Slow pace, mostly subtitles and following a new-ish character. The ratings for season 2 aren't all that amazing so far and I don't see an "art piece" episode like this doing them any favors.
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Even though I enjoyed the episode, I can see a lot of people hating it.
Slow pace, mostly subtitles and following a new-ish character. The ratings for season 2 aren't all that amazing so far and I don't see an "art piece" episode like this doing them any favors.
I won't say I 'hated' it but for me it was the weakest episode of the series to date. I completely could not believe that he wandered the headquarters...in full Ghost Nation War paint....until he found the room full of discontinued hosts. No key pad access points? Just take a couple turns in the hallway and go down a flight of stairs? All the while not to be seen by ANYONE? Only explanation would be that Ford 'let' it happen...and even that's a stretch.
Anyway....next week looks to be a William centered episode so that should be a good rebound.
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I enjoyed the episode, but I agree it was probably the weakest in the whole series, or at least one of them. I also was confused by how Akecheta managed to find his way through the facility.
However, I loved that we got a closer glimpse at the Valley thanks to him, and I also loved the scene with him and Ford. This show also does a great job at making the various cultures feel authentic and lifelike. So the episode wasn't a total waste. We've had two massive, almost-finale-like episodes this season already, so I am not disappointed with the show. It's a sci-fi show with a heavy emphasis on themes about consciousness, reality, and understanding one's purpose, or finding some meaning to life (and what is 'life' anyway?). I actually expect it to be slow and convoluted, so maybe that's why I'm not as upset as my friends and other people are with the direction of season 2.
I think the finale is going to be huge. I can't wait! Only 2 more weeks... then nothing to watch for a couple months.
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Even though I enjoyed the episode, I can see a lot of people hating it.
Slow pace, mostly subtitles and following a new-ish character. The ratings for season 2 aren't all that amazing so far and I don't see an "art piece" episode like this doing them any favors.
I won't say I 'hated' it but for me it was the weakest episode of the series to date. I completely could not believe that he wandered the headquarters...in full Ghost Nation War paint....until he found the room full of discontinued hosts. No key pad access points? Just take a couple turns in the hallway and go down a flight of stairs? All the while not to be seen by ANYONE? Only explanation would be that Ford 'let' it happen...and even that's a stretch.
Anyway....next week looks to be a William centered episode so that should be a good rebound.
I have to believe Ford let the whole thing happen, starting with leaving the maze next to the drink for him to stumble upon after Arnold was killed and then also the fact that the Delos team was able to recover his girl (forget her name) when she went off script but didn't bother going after him to fix... for 10 years.
Anyway, I agree, probably the worst episode of the series, but I actually really liked the story of it, just didn't enjoy the way it was presented with such a slow pace and also coming off such an eventful episode, it really made this week's feel lackluster. But back to the story of it all, it seems Akecheta was really the first "woke" host and maybe an experiment by Ford to test the maze and how to gain consciousness.
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What was interesting was that Aketcha flat out said that Dolores is going to kill everyone....get everyone killed and that's she's basically the enemy/bad 'guy' in the show now. He and Maeve appear to be the 'good' guys....
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What was interesting was that Aketcha flat out said that Dolores is going to kill everyone....get everyone killed and that's she's basically the enemy/bad 'guy' in the show now. He and Maeve appear to be the 'good' guys....
I'm very curious to see what happens to Maeve now. She seems too important to be out for good, and probably has a much bigger role to play, whatever it is. She's not at all my favorite character but I can't wait to see what they do with her now that she's pretty much incapacitated for as long as Behavior wants.
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What was interesting was that Aketcha flat out said that Dolores is going to kill everyone....get everyone killed and that's she's basically the enemy/bad 'guy' in the show now. He and Maeve appear to be the 'good' guys....
I'm very curious to see what happens to Maeve now. She seems too important to be out for good, and probably has a much bigger role to play, whatever it is. She's not at all my favorite character but I can't wait to see what they do with her now that she's pretty much incapacitated for as long as Behavior wants.
I think with Bernard/Ford running around at HQ they'll play a hand in fixing and freeing her.
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That's right. We didn't really see much of anyone else in last night's episode, so I'm eager to see what Fornarnold and the others are doing next week.
Anyone else planning on binging the season or even the whole show before or after the season 2 finale? I'm considering watching the whole series again - definitely watching the whole season leading up to the finale though.
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Finally caught up to the second season. Been avoiding this thread and anything related to this show anywhere online, I'm not surprised by reading the low ratings. Though me personally I've been loving this season immensely. I don't have any problems with any plot points so far. Sure, they could've done a few things a little differently in terms of execution.
I really should've watched the first season again prior to catching up. Probably will do that once this season is done. Love the new characters this season and love the character arcs so far. Can't wait for the last two episodes.
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The more I think about the last episode, the more I'm loving it. I think it actually may be the favorite so far of this season. Hanzee from Fargo was always an amazing character and the actor that plays him has become one of my favorites, he's so good in this series as well I really hope he becomes a regular.
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The Ghost Nation episode was the best episode this season far. I loved it. This whole season has been excellent as far as I'm concerned.
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Don't think it was mentioned - the piano arrangement of Nirvana's Heart Shaped Box was really nice.
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Always a joy to hear those piano arrangements, I have to find the list of songs they've used this season so far. I think they had an orchestral arrangement of paint it black during the first shogun world episode.
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Don't think it was mentioned - the piano arrangement of Nirvana's Heart Shaped Box was really nice.
Ya know, I was thinking that piano sounded familiar but couldn't pick out what it was. Just knew it had to be some more known song, similar to what they've done before. Really cool.
Also, I didn't realize until reading this thread that the ratings are down this season. That sucks because I think this season is better than the first and had hoped this would be the new flagship show now that GoT is just about done. I know they are renewed for another season but I hope the show isn't at risk to being cut.
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Wow. According to wikipedia episode 6 of this season (Phase Space) barely got 1 million viewers. The lowest viewed episode of season 1 got 1.49 million. I really don't understand the level of hate it's getting from people this time. Oh well... I had a dream the other night they announced "the new season of Westworld" but it was like season 5 haha. I really hope the audience warms up to it some more. I want this to go the full stretch...
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I think a lot of people didn't like the whole two timeline reveal. It made the story to complicated to follow. My mom couldn't follow what the hell was going on when, so she stopped watching.
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I think a lot of people didn't like the whole two timeline reveal. It made the story to complicated to follow. My mom couldn't follow what the hell was going on when, so she stopped watching.
Was that before or after season 2 started though? I feel if you survived season 1, then this hasn't been just as similarly difficult to follow. My girlfriend bowed out after a few episodes of season 1, she wasn't interested in the timeline and needing to pay so much attention. She also was a bit freaked out by the hosts so there's that too.
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The two timeline thing is no more complex than it was in season 1, I think. I think it just gives the illusion of being more complex because there are more story beats to follow and more pieces to fit together than as a result make season 1 look even deeper than we thought it was back when that was the only season. That's my view though.
Edit: oh, and Logan! I was thrilled to see him in the latest episode. Looks like he completely broke down after William sent him off. Yikes.
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I think a lot of people didn't like the whole two timeline reveal. It made the story to complicated to follow. My mom couldn't follow what the hell was going on when, so she stopped watching.
Was that before or after season 2 started though? I feel if you survived season 1, then this hasn't been just as similarly difficult to follow. My girlfriend bowed out after a few episodes of season 1, she wasn't interested in the timeline and needing to pay so much attention. She also was a bit freaked out by the hosts so there's that too.
She gave up after the 5th or 6th episode of the first season. The show requires you to pay attention, and even then you could miss stuff. My mom (and I think a lot of people these days), don't like those types of shows all that much. Makes it too hard to use your phone while still knowing what's going on.
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Edit: oh, and Logan! I was thrilled to see him in the latest episode. Looks like he completely broke down after William sent him off. Yikes.
Wonder if this is what lead him to OD, he definitely looked messed up mentally (although I don't believe he died)
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Wow, what an awesome episode.
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There was some incredible acting and directing this episode. Need to watch again though, because it buffered so often that I had to take numerous breaks. Shout out to Evan Rachel Wood's acting in that final bit. That was perfect.
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HOLE. E. CRAP. What an episode. William has lost his mind....which, may turn out to be that is ‘mind’ has just reached its denigration point. The speculation that he perfected the ‘project’ seems to be plausible at this point. Killing your own daughter though. Man, that’s a tough one to get over.
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So much to process from that episode. Really intense and lots of wtf moments. Loved the focus on William and more of his back story this episode.
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Amazing episode. All of William’s bits were great, but that ending with Dolores and Teddy stands out. Early GoT levels of tense for me.
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So, is William just 'inside' a host having perfected his project or is he just losing his mind? I'm not sure I'm buying the 'clear' reading from the scanner.....he could easily just have a host body without the explosive. Then again....he could be losing his mind because he's in a host body. Maybe the project isn't perfected but going 'host' was his only shot at taking out Ford?
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So, is William just 'inside' a host having perfected his project or is he just losing his mind? I'm not sure I'm buying the 'clear' reading from the scanner.....he could easily just have a host body without the explosive. Then again....he could be losing his mind because he's in a host body. Maybe the project isn't perfected but going 'host' was his only shot at taking out Ford?
Yea this is really confusing for me to understand exactly how he can be host. Like is his body dead or is he also living outside the park but the person inside is a host? Is he glitching like Delos was? Was he perfected? Does he actually know he is a host? I was watching the Afterbuzz TV show on youtube and the hosts there seemed just as confused and it was actually hard watching them try to talk about the episode. Not surprisingly, no one here is talking about it either :lol I am struggling to really understand myself. I watched it again (well most before I fell asleep) last night and am so intrigued by it all, but I am finding it hard to follow right now.
Also seems like there is way too much open ended right now to only have one episode left. I just hope they close some storylines and not leave us with even more questions because I think that could really hurt the show for keeping viewers next season.
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Well, a couple of episodes back Ford told Bernard that the technology wasn't perfected yet which is why he uploaded himself into the cradle instead of a host. I don't think William is a host, I think he just lost his mind. Westworld finally took everything from him
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Well, a couple of episodes back Ford told Bernard that the technology wasn't perfected yet which is why he uploaded himself into the cradle instead of a host. I don't think William is a host, I think he just lost his mind. Westworld finally took everything from him
But whats with his arm? I think the show made it clear by showing Bernard connecting to his arm, and then immediately showing William rubbing his arm in the same spot multiple times that they are hinting a correlation. I guess it's possible that this is to confuse us, but also the being clear with the scan could be to confuse as well. I just flat out dont know.
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After the scene in the bar it seems Ford really wanted to mess with William, I hardly think that making him a host achieves that. I think his goal was to drive William and that he finally achieved that. However, I 100% agree with what you say. I could be wrong, but I think the show is trying to mess with us and at the same time trying to send a message to us, telling us not to take our world for granted and to question what we think about reality. That is something sci-fi shows and movies do a lot.
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I don't expect for one second that all the questions will be answered in the finale. I expect at least two more seasons out of this show. I expect something super dramatic to occur in the Forge, and not something good. I think something is going to happen that neither William nor Dolores expect, and it's going to be catastrophic for everybody, human and host alike. I can't wait to see where this goes and I fully expect a painfully good cliffhanger for season 3.
I love the interaction between Ford and William in this past episode and cannot wait to see how William acts when he sees Dolores again now that he's basically lost all grip on his sanity and is so close to the Forge. And Ford can't be gone for good despite Bernard deleting him from his code, so I expect a bit more from him yet.
God I love this show!!
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Yea, I don't expect all things to be answered, but I just want some closure before what will likely be a cliffhanger ending. There's just too much confusion at this point. I am hooked, but I am wondering if others will lose interest. I also expect Ford to be back somehow, he's too critical to the show to have him just deleted so easily.
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I'm still not convinced we won't see a physical....'host'....Ford. I'm still thinking he was creating 'himself' in that scene back in season 1 when Bernard became aware of what he was in that secret building. That he perfected the project and 'he' is 'alive' physically and the program we've seen of him was just his effort to assist the destruction of the Forge and DELOS for that matter.
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I'm still not convinced we won't see a physical....'host'....Ford. I'm still thinking he was creating 'himself' in that scene back in season 1 when Bernard became aware of what he was in that secret building. That he perfected the project and 'he' is 'alive' physically and the program we've seen of him was just his effort to assist the destruction of the Forge and DELOS for that matter.
Yea, that wouldn't surprise me. I thought Ford would be the secret to fixing the glitch they saw in James Delos, but Ford had the deal to not be involved, but he may have done it anyway. Possibly first with William (maybe without his knowledge) and then with himself.
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I’m in the camp that believes Williamis is not a host. Don’t know why, and I could obviously be wrong, but that’s what I think.
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Yea, I don't expect all things to be answered, but I just want some closure before what will likely be a cliffhanger ending. There's just too much confusion at this point. I am hooked, but I am wondering if others will lose interest. I also expect Ford to be back somehow, he's too critical to the show to have him just deleted so easily.
Season 1 did that quite well - answered some of the big mysteries, while opening up whole new ones to set up the next stage in the story. I'd expect the same here - I don't think they'll leave EVERYTHING unanswered/unresolved.
In general, the phrase "have you ever questioned the nature of your reality" is very fitting for the show, as I question everything now. William could be a host. So could all the people he just killed, including his daughter. It could all be part of the project/experiment.
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Well, a couple of episodes back Ford told Bernard that the technology wasn't perfected yet which is why he uploaded himself into the cradle instead of a host. I don't think William is a host, I think he just lost his mind. Westworld finally took everything from him
But whats with his arm? I think the show made it clear by showing Bernard connecting to his arm, and then immediately showing William rubbing his arm in the same spot multiple times that they are hinting a correlation. I guess it's possible that this is to confuse us, but also the being clear with the scan could be to confuse as well. I just flat out dont know.
I think he got to the point where he wasn't sure any more. Delos didn't know he was a host until William told him. There's no one around to tell him if he's a host or not, so he's going to dig and find out. That's what I think, anyway.
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Well, a couple of episodes back Ford told Bernard that the technology wasn't perfected yet which is why he uploaded himself into the cradle instead of a host. I don't think William is a host, I think he just lost his mind. Westworld finally took everything from him
But whats with his arm? I think the show made it clear by showing Bernard connecting to his arm, and then immediately showing William rubbing his arm in the same spot multiple times that they are hinting a correlation. I guess it's possible that this is to confuse us, but also the being clear with the scan could be to confuse as well. I just flat out dont know.
I think he got to the point where he wasn't sure any more. Delos didn't know he was a host until William told him. There's no one around to tell him if he's a host or not, so he's going to dig and find out. That's what I think, anyway.
Ahh thats makes sense too
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So apparently the finale is going to be longer than season 1's, which was an hour and a half long. PUMPED UP :2metal:
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I'm still not convinced we won't see a physical....'host'....Ford. I'm still thinking he was creating 'himself' in that scene back in season 1 when Bernard became aware of what he was in that secret building. That he perfected the project and 'he' is 'alive' physically and the program we've seen of him was just his effort to assist the destruction of the Forge and DELOS for that matter.
I've thought this all along as well. The only wrench in that so far is that we've been back to that secret building "the basement of the house where Ford was hiding his host family) and it was revealed that Ford had printed a number of Bernards.
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I'm still not convinced we won't see a physical....'host'....Ford. I'm still thinking he was creating 'himself' in that scene back in season 1 when Bernard became aware of what he was in that secret building. That he perfected the project and 'he' is 'alive' physically and the program we've seen of him was just his effort to assist the destruction of the Forge and DELOS for that matter.
I've thought this all along as well. The only wrench in that so far is that we've been back to that secret building "the basement of the house where Ford was hiding his host family) and it was revealed that Ford had printed a number of Bernards.
True. That could also point to he may have printed a number of any of them, including himself.
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Well, alrighty then. That was certainly a thing...
I don't know if I liked it or didn't like it. I don't know. I'll have to think about it.
I don't have the slightest clue where a season 3 could go. I guess tweedle dee and tweedle dumb are gonna rebuild maeve, and then what? She's back in her role? nobody is gonna go back to the park after that massacre, or will they? Is season 3 gonna just be in the real world? Is the show over? Just so many questions.
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I loved every second and it seemed to get better and better as it went on. There's so freaking much to unpack here, and that post credits scene made me grin like an idiot once I realized what was happening. Gonna watch it at least a couple more times. Damn that was good!
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I loved every second and it seemed to get better and better as it went on. There's so freaking much to unpack here, and that post credits scene made me grin like an idiot once I realized what was happening. Gonna watch it at least a couple more times. Damn that was good!
Post credits scene? I turned off since there wouldnt be scenes for next week.
Well, alrighty then. That was certainly a thing...
I don't know if I liked it or didn't like it. I don't know. I'll have to think about it.
I don't have the slightest clue where a season 3 could go. I guess tweedle dee and tweedle dumb are gonna rebuild maeve, and then what? She's back in her role? nobody is gonna go back to the park after that massacre, or will they? Is season 3 gonna just be in the real world? Is the show over? Just so many questions.
I feel the same. I don't know if I liked the way this ended. I need to read up and maybe watch again (I fell asleep during an immediate rewatch) to see if I can understand this more.
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Yeah, there's a post credits scene. Watch it. It's awesome :)
I watched it a second time and loved it even more. I fucking loved it. I think I enjoyed it more on the second viewing, honestly.
My friends are insisting I only liked season 2 because I got off on getting confused... wrong... it's not all that hard to follow particularly if you accept that they're wrapping it up at the end and piecing the timelines together. I personally enjoy that because it adds suspense and mystery to the show and I was constantly invested in figuring out what happened. I also loved the character arcs this season although Maeve's grated on me early on because of her insistence on saving her daughter who isn't actually her daughter, despite Maeve being self aware enough to understand that was just something programmed into her and not organic or genuine in any way. And I was hoping Shogun World would have more relevance in the end, but other than those points, I loved this season - I enjoyed it more than season 1 in the end. Several episodes this season were better than any episode of season 1.
The post credits scene gives me some ideas for how they'll do the mixed timeline thing for season 3. I'm so freaking hyped. Please don't make me wait another year and a half.
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Here's how I took that post credit scene....don't know if this is correct or not.
Modern day William survived to be found and then brought back to that tent at the Headquarters there by the Lake. We saw he was the survivor they told Stubbs about.
At some point in the future.....William must discover that the 'manager' of the virtual world that Ford/Bernard created believes and suggests that humans are nothing more than simple algorithms with no true free will. William then decides either as he's dying or just to do it....to upload his code into a host and prove it wrong?
We then see him get out of that elevator....as his host daughter suggests.....quite some time into the future. And the Forge looks like it's either been destroyed or neglected. She then says they've been doing that 'test' or simulation countless times.
Is that the gist of it?
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Also, I got the impression from the conversation that Stubbs had with Charlotte (Dolores) that he knew she was a host but really didn't give a :censored that she was escaping because he was questioning the meaning behind it all anyway
***edit*** and to add to that the explanation Stubbs was giving to 'Charlotte' certainly sounded like to me that he was admitting he was a host as well...that he was just playing the role Ford assigned to him.
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Also, I got the impression from the conversation that Stubbs had with Charlotte (Dolores) that he knew she was a host but really didn't give a :censored that she was escaping because he was questioning the meaning behind it all anyway
***edit*** and to add to that the explanation Stubbs was giving to 'Charlotte' certainly sounded like to me that he was admitting he was a host as well...that he was just playing the role Ford assigned to him.
That was my immediate thought when watching that scene. You had to pay attention to how he said it, but I got the impression that he's a host and knew she was as well.
Season 1 was all about Dolores and her different timelines. This season, to me, was all about Bernard and because of that we got presented things in the same disjointed manner he was experiencing them. That diagnostic he ran mentioned he would have time shifts and memory lapses and that's what we got. It was like he was the narrator.
I was able to sync everything up in the timeline by the end, except for William. I have no clue what is going on there. I expected him to be on the lift when the door opened for Bernard. I'm guessing this means that somewhere his timeline picked up somewhere else which makes me wonder where he was when they found him and had him under that tent at the end.
Shoutout to the bulls scene and the looks on everyone's face as they attacked. That was priceless. Somebody posted this on Twitter which was quite good:
Maeve Millay, the First of Her Kind, The Awakened, Favored by Ford, Elevated to Administrator Privileges, Breaker of Code, Mother of Bulls.
Another shoutout to Lee Sizemore and his redemption. That was the classy way to exit a show.
Finally, Felix and Sylvester will resurrect Maeve and her posse since they seemed to be given the keys to do what they want at the end.
Now the long wait occurs.
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I was able to sync everything up in the timeline by the end, except for William. I have no clue what is going on there. I expected him to be on the lift when the door opened for Bernard. I'm guessing this means that somewhere his timeline picked up somewhere else which makes me wonder where he was when they found him and had him under that tent at the end.
Best I figure is he was just found unconscious outside the Forge elevator in 'real time' and us watching him get on the elevator and go down to the forge was obviously some point in the distant future.
What I'm curious about was his whole story this year. Was all his story line from his 'test of fidelity'? It seems to make sense other than him meeting up with Dolores and Bernard there at the Forge doorway....unless that's where he was found and then brought back to the tent.
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I have absolutely no idea what Season 2 was about. I watched it all because, not much else going on for me on Sunday nights. But man, that was bewildering. I liked S1 a lot better.
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Good lord, that finale.
So much to process, and so many questions for season 3.
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I was able to sync everything up in the timeline by the end, except for William. I have no clue what is going on there. I expected him to be on the lift when the door opened for Bernard. I'm guessing this means that somewhere his timeline picked up somewhere else which makes me wonder where he was when they found him and had him under that tent at the end.
Best I figure is he was just found unconscious outside the Forge elevator in 'real time' and us watching him get on the elevator and go down to the forge was obviously some point in the distant future.
What I'm curious about was his whole story this year. Was all his story line from his 'test of fidelity'? It seems to make sense other than him meeting up with Dolores and Bernard there at the Forge doorway....unless that's where he was found and then brought back to the tent.
Again, we are on the same page. My first thought is that he never regained consciousness outside of the door. I read an interview with Jonah Nolan and he seems to say that the post-credits scene was most likely in the distant future and that was probably Host William but that was about all he'd say.
Now that I think about it, it could also be another virtual world like the one they were testing Delos in. Who knows.
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I have absolutely no idea what Season 2 was about. I watched it all because, not much else going on for me on Sunday nights. But man, that was bewildering. I liked S1 a lot better.
Me too. Season one was pretty rock solid, and I loved it. Sure there was the parallel timeline reveal but nothing on the level of the time skip, convoluted aspects of season 2. This season was ALL over the place and for me its now off the rails with how obtuse and esoteric that its gotten. And I was really on board up until that finale, and it felt like a let down.
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I have absolutely no idea what Season 2 was about. I watched it all because, not much else going on for me on Sunday nights. But man, that was bewildering. I liked S1 a lot better.
Me too. Season one was pretty rock solid, and I loved it. Sure there was the parallel timeline reveal but nothing on the level of the time skip, convoluted aspects of season 2. This season was ALL over the place and for me its now off the rails with how obtuse and esoteric that its gotten. And I was really on board up until that finale, and it felt like a let down.
I pretty much feel the same, this season was all over the place. Not really feelin it at all. I really enjoyed the first season though.
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I have absolutely no idea what Season 2 was about. I watched it all because, not much else going on for me on Sunday nights. But man, that was bewildering. I liked S1 a lot better.
Me too. Season one was pretty rock solid, and I loved it. Sure there was the parallel timeline reveal but nothing on the level of the time skip, convoluted aspects of season 2. This season was ALL over the place and for me its now off the rails with how obtuse and esoteric that its gotten. And I was really on board up until that finale, and it felt like a let down.
I pretty much feel the same, this season was all over the place. Not really feelin it at all. I really enjoyed the first season though.
I think I liked season 2 better, but I'm not sure I like the way it ended. The feeling that everything is a simulation is kind of a turn off and that's kind of where it seems headed. As my coworker said, it's like inception but with reality and not only is it confusing, I'm not entirely sure I find it interesting. But the acting and episodic storytelling has been great. I don't plan on stop watching or anything, but my love for season 2 faded a bit after last night.
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Man what a ride, such a complex timeline of events. I love that kind of stuff, I really really need to watch both seasons back to back. The post credit scene was awesome.
I found a diagram that someone made a best guess estimate of where everything lies. It's an awesome read
https://www.thisisinsider.com/westworld-timeline-spoilers-2018-4
I can only imagine the nightmare it must be to edit this show.
I like how they sunset some of the host characters be sending them to the virtual Eden. I personally loved season 2 just as much as 1 and look forward to watching the whole thing again.
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That finale was insane. And that after credits scene? Nuts. Best show out there this year, no question.
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I think I've watched way too much mindf*ck anime as a teenager to feel impressed by this finale.
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Man what a ride, such a complex timeline of events. I love that kind of stuff, I really really need to watch both seasons back to back. The post credit scene was awesome.
I found a diagram that someone made a best guess estimate of where everything lies. It's an awesome read
https://www.thisisinsider.com/westworld-timeline-spoilers-2018-4
I can only imagine the nightmare it must be to edit this show.
I like how they sunset some of the host characters be sending them to the virtual Eden. I personally loved season 2 just as much as 1 and look forward to watching the whole thing again.
That’s a cool chart. People have a LOT of time on their hands to be able to craft something like that :lol
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Also, I got the impression from the conversation that Stubbs had with Charlotte (Dolores) that he knew she was a host but really didn't give a :censored that she was escaping because he was questioning the meaning behind it all anyway
***edit*** and to add to that the explanation Stubbs was giving to 'Charlotte' certainly sounded like to me that he was admitting he was a host as well...that he was just playing the role Ford assigned to him.
He felt like Teddy to me during that interaction. So if Dolores is in Charlotte, can Teddy be in Stubbs? I get that she put Teddy in the Valley Beyond, but what if there were copies of him already before that?
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I watched the episode again last night - twice - and man there are so many good moments. I loved the Four Horsemen-esque imagery of Clementine riding and sowing death and discord wherever she went. When Armistice kept shooting Clementine but the chaos still went on, that was really haunting and perfectly shot. I love how Akecheta got shot just as he crossed through the Door - a cheap editing tactic but damn it it worked in the moment, so I like it. At first I thought Lee's speech was corny as hell, but on repeated viewings I loved it. It fit him so well and he finally got to not only hear his speech but deliver it himself. Kind of sad he's gone, actually.
Did anybody notice the degradation of the visual effects as Dolores and Bernard began walking in the system within the Forge? I thought that was a great addition.
I'm super curious to learn more about Stubbs and how he knew Halores was a host, and also who is in Hale's body if Dolores is back in her own (unless there's two Dolores now). Who did Dolores take with her in the bag of pearls? That's a good question. Perhaps we get a whole new host of stars (pun intended) in the coming seasons.
I'm hoping season 3 continues with the split timeline thing - I think they've shown they can make the seasons mysterious and suspenseful while making them come together neatly. But I'm wondering if they'll do that. There's so much going on in the present timeline I'm not sure there's a need, unless they spend a lot of season 3 with flash-forwards to Future William and his fidelity tests, which I'm sure they have big plans for already and wouldn't have teased that scene if they didn't know what to do with it. I'm guessing we'll see a lot of Bernard and Dolores in the human's world, lots of action back at the park with Sylvester/Felix/Stubbs/etc. and possibly a resurrection of Maeve and co. But I wonder what we'll see of William after he's been rescued. Is he gonna stay in the park? Are we going to get whole episodes jumping between current William and future host-hybrid William?
Also Katja Herbers (Emily) is so damn cute. :biggrin:
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I didn’t love the finale. It had amazing moments but was so convoluted that they needed multiple extended scenes of obvious exposition just to attempt to explain it.
I get that many fans get off on complexity but I think it went too far this season and actually hurt what was otherwise great character arcs.
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Also Katja Herbers (Emily) is so damn cute. :biggrin:
She's a great comedic actress as well. If you can get it anywhere, try to find some episodes from the Dutch show 'Divorce' with english subtitles. (if that even exists). You'll love her in that. She lets her crazy side loose!
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Also Katja Herbers (Emily) is so damn cute. :biggrin:
She's a great comedic actress as well. If you can get it anywhere, try to find some episodes from the Dutch show 'Divorce' with english subtitles. (if that even exists). You'll love her in that. She lets her crazy side loose!
Thanks for the heads up! I'll look for it :biggrin:
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Awesome end to the season, though I'm going to definitely have to watch the finale again. I was super tired during the last 15 minutes and I was having trouble following. Just some thoughts:
- I think Elsie is a host
- That indoor bull running scene was cinematic perfection
- How did all the people that were running with Maeve not get reprogrammed by Clementine?
- There are two parks on the Westworld website that we haven't seen yet. I'll bet Dolores enters through one of them pretending to be a guest and sneaks back into Westword.
- What was the place Dolores and Bernard were at after Dolores left Westworld? Were those fresh Dolores and Bernard prints, or was that a different timeline?
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- How did all the people that were running with Maeve not get reprogrammed by Clementine?
The people with Maeve are all fully "awake" now I think, and her ability (and thus Clementine's) only appears to work on those who aren't.
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- What was the place Dolores and Bernard were at after Dolores left Westworld? Were those fresh Dolores and Bernard prints, or was that a different timeline?
That was Arnold (Bernard’s) real house on the outside. Remember Arnold took Dolores there as it was being built when they were trying to lure in Logan and get funding for Westworld.
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- What was the place Dolores and Bernard were at after Dolores left Westworld? Were those fresh Dolores and Bernard prints, or was that a different timeline?
That was Arnold (Bernard’s) real house on the outside. Remember Arnold took Dolores there as it was being built when they were trying to lure in Logan and get funding for Westworld.
Ohhhh. I thought that scene was showing them visiting Raj World, the place where we met William's daughter for the first time.
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I have absolutely no idea what Season 2 was about. I watched it all because, not much else going on for me on Sunday nights. But man, that was bewildering. I liked S1 a lot better.
I finally started season 2 about a month ago. We finished episode 4 last night and I'm jumping ship. I'm normally all for super complex story lines with twists and what not but I need to actually care about the characters. I don't care about any of the characters. Season 1 was just more fun and the idea of the hosts gaining consciousness and taking over the park (or maybe the world) was exciting. Season 2 has just bogged everything down in my opinion and is way to complex for no reason. I think the writers should have not waited so long to explain the idea of having your consciousness in the hosts. I think it would have been better to keep it about machines becoming sentient.
Moving on to Castle Rock.
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I have absolutely no idea what Season 2 was about. I watched it all because, not much else going on for me on Sunday nights. But man, that was bewildering. I liked S1 a lot better.
I finally started season 2 about a month ago. We finished episode 4 last night and I'm jumping ship. I'm normally all for super complex story lines with twists and what not but I need to actually care about the characters. I don't care about any of the characters. Season 1 was just more fun and the idea of the hosts gaining consciousness and taking over the park (or maybe the world) was exciting. Season 2 has just bogged everything down in my opinion and is way to complex for no reason. I think the writers should have not waited so long to explain the idea of having your consciousness in the hosts. I think it would have been better to keep it about machines becoming sentient.
Moving on to Castle Rock.
That's such a shame especially considering episode 4 is one of the high water marks of the season... You don't care about any of them? That makes me sad. William is a great character, Bernard is interesting, the Delos family fascinates me, and I genuinely like Dolores... There are some fantastic revelations later on in the season. I hope you come back and give it another chance.
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I kind of agree about the not caring about the characters part. They are great actors and do a great job, but when you know they are robots, do you really care about them? I think that's part of the show though, like you question if you should care just like the humans in the show question as well when they are so real and have gained conscious, at what point do they become alive and worthy of actually caring for?
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I think that's absolutely one of the points of the show. I personally think they're interesting because they are androids who believe they are real, and we as the audience get to see all sides of it: their creation, their fixing, when they're turned 'off,' them trying to reconcile knowledge of their origins with wanting to be 'real' and organic. I don't think just because they're artificial they shouldn't be cared about.
Hell, that's half of William's arc in season 1. Logan and William contrast each other wonderfully. When they get to the park, William isn't sure what to think of them, much like the audience. Logan treats them like objects, there's no consequence, no reason to care about them (think about how he yells at William to stop caring about Dolores). Then William falls in love with Dolores... and then he goes down the rabbit hole of taking over Delos, running fidelity tests on James Delos, and eventually SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS having the tests run on himself SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS.
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I have no issues with caring about the hosts. Ever see Ex Machina? By the end, everyone cared about Ava. I don't see how this is a whole lot different.
I also don't feel like I need to "care" about anyone. I really didn't care about anyone in Breaking Bad [SPOILERS AHEAD] except for Jessie, but that was still a hell of an emotional ride. And I think, like Westworld, it kind of challenges you to see what/who you side with. Walter White became a huge asshole. He sold his family down the river, got his brother in law killed, and ruined hundreds of lives in the process. Yet somehow, even up until the final minutes of the series, we were all still kind of rooting for the guy. I doubt many people were "happy" to see him die at the end.
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I cared about the Dolores in the first season. Maybe my issue with season 2 is that there isn't clear cut main character. I may come back and finish it at some point but all I know is that I've dozed off during every episode and for me that means I really don't care about it.
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I cared about the Dolores in the first season. Maybe my issue with season 2 is that there isn't clear cut main character. I may come back and finish it at some point but all I know is that I've dozed off during every episode and for me that means I really don't care about it.
Show just isnt for you and that's fine then. I think your feeling of losing interest during season 2 isn't an odd case either. Seems a lot of people lost interest in the show as the storyline got more and more convoluted. I feel like I am kind of on the edge. I expect to keep watching, I am intrigued by it, but it is slowly becoming a bit too much for me as season 2 went on.
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I cared about the Dolores in the first season. Maybe my issue with season 2 is that there isn't clear cut main character. I may come back and finish it at some point but all I know is that I've dozed off during every episode and for me that means I really don't care about it.
Show just isnt for you and that's fine then. I think your feeling of losing interest during season 2 isn't an odd case either. Seems a lot of people lost interest in the show as the storyline got more and more convoluted. I feel like I am kind of on the edge. I expect to keep watching, I am intrigued by it, but it is slowly becoming a bit too much for me as season 2 went on.
I really liked season 2, but I was only able to tell what was going on because I watched most of the episodes a second time. In that regard, it's kind of irritating because I think a show should be straight forward enough to understand on the first run through. Putting in nuggets for a second watch is one thing, making it super complicated to follow can suck at times. There were moments in the season where if you missed a single sentence, you could be completely lost.
Take on the topic from the director.
https://www.businessinsider.com/hbo-programming-boss-will-not-apologize-for-westworld-being-confusing-2018-7
Critics, fans, and this very website criticized season two of "Westworld." It got off to a good start, but didn't live up to what the first half of the season promised. By the end of the season, many people had no idea what they had just watched — even people like me who watched the episodes multiple times.
But HBO's programming boss doesn't seem concerned, even though the show's ratings dropped throughout the second season .
"I wouldn't agree that the backlash was widespread," Bloys said. "The people who love it really love it, even the people who dislike it feel the need to discuss it and talk about it, and let you know they dislike it, and debate. And for a show to arouse that kind of feeling, that's what we want."
Bloys also said the show is "not for casual viewers, it requires your attention." He added that creators Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy "like to challenge their viewers and many feel rewarded by that. It's a unique show, and that's what we're looking for."
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I don't watch many TV shows, I keep my list of stuff I watch nice and short and simple, so I actually prefer them taking a cerebral approach and requiring lots of focus and concentration and maybe even repeat viewings. I watched each episode of season 2 several times but that's also because I don't have cable so my choices for watching things are limited, but a big part of that is I LOVE shows that leave me hanging with lots of questions to think about, and then I spend a lot of time on YouTube finding the best and most intelligent analyses of episodes (I do this with Game of Thrones too even though its 'questions' are far less complicated).
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I really liked season 2, but I was only able to tell what was going on because I watched most of the episodes a second time.
Not only did I watch each episode twice, I watched youtube videos explaining episodes as well as theories throughout the season. I think it's a love hate thing for me. I love shows that you'll want to watch a second time to catch things and have such crazy details of a story to discuss throughout the week between episodes, but also you want the story to actually make sense and be easy to understand as well so you hate when it's too difficult to understand.
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My largest 'complaint' about season two was the dramatic reversal in Dolores' character. I understand 'why' she was the way she was....I'm just not sold on the way it was portrayed. The all out blood lust she had was just hard to 'believe' after a whole season of her being so caring and 'emotional'. I really had a hard time believing her character.
I really liked everything else in the season though. Especially the William story line.
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My largest 'complaint' about season two was the dramatic reversal in Dolores' character. I understand 'why' she was the way she was....I'm just not sold on the way it was portrayed. The all out blood lust she had was just hard to 'believe' after a whole season of her being so caring and 'emotional'. I really had a hard time believing her character.
I really liked everything else in the season though. Especially the William story line.
I kind of felt the opposite. I thought Dolores' change in character was completely justified given how much information was made available to her all at once combined with the reveries of all the terrible things that happened to her. I also always wondered if Ford was tweaking her emotions to make her more aggressive in an effort to hasty take down management from the inside.
I actually felt like Maeve's whole arc seemed more far fetched and harder to believe.
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My largest 'complaint' about season two was the dramatic reversal in Dolores' character. I understand 'why' she was the way she was....I'm just not sold on the way it was portrayed. The all out blood lust she had was just hard to 'believe' after a whole season of her being so caring and 'emotional'. I really had a hard time believing her character.
I really liked everything else in the season though. Especially the William story line.
I kind of felt the opposite. I thought Dolores' change in character was completely justified given how much information was made available to her all at once combined with the reveries of all the terrible things that happened to her. I also always wondered if Ford was tweaking her emotions to make her more aggressive in an effort to hasty take down management from the inside.
I actually felt like Maeve's whole arc seemed more far fetched and harder to believe.
Not only that, but Dolores had the Wyatt code in her this entire time - ever since Arnold put it in her. My belief is that Wyatt's lust for vengeance, his personality and characteristics, override any empathy or compassion on the Dolores side of her mind, if we want to compartmentalize.
I too found Maeve's arc farfetched if only because she's intelligent enough to try to take control of her own destiny and yet she's actively pursuing an artificial background that she knows is artificial as if that's her calling, her destiny. And to some extent, that's true - after all she was originally programmed to be that kid's mother, but that was long ago, she's been reprogrammed, and she understands the kid was reprogrammed to believe someone else is her mom. So I don't quite understand her fascination with being 'independent' while at the same time being tied to this metaphorical chain.
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Yea, Dolores was merged with Wyatt and that's what made he go gun crazy.
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I understood that Dolores had merged with Wyatt and that she had this massive influx of reveries and memories etc etc. I 'get' the direction her character took.....I just didn't buy the presentation. I guess what I'm saying is that I didn't like the way Evan Rachel Wood portrayed it....either by direction or by her own interpretation. I thought it was very 'flat' and it was just 'blah' for me.
whereas Thandie Newton did a good job with Maeve's character I thought. That story line in general was odd given some of the reasons stated already but I thought the acting was a bright spot there.
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I'll agree with that
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I understood that Dolores had merged with Wyatt and that she had this massive influx of reveries and memories etc etc. I 'get' the direction her character took.....I just didn't buy the presentation. I guess what I'm saying is that I didn't like the way Evan Rachel Wood portrayed it....either by direction or by her own interpretation. I thought it was very 'flat' and it was just 'blah' for me.
whereas Thandie Newton did a good job with Maeve's character I thought. That story line in general was odd given some of the reasons stated already but I thought the acting was a bright spot there.
Yeah, that's fair. What about her reaction when Teddy offed himself? I thought that was genuinely fantastic.
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I understood that Dolores had merged with Wyatt and that she had this massive influx of reveries and memories etc etc. I 'get' the direction her character took.....I just didn't buy the presentation. I guess what I'm saying is that I didn't like the way Evan Rachel Wood portrayed it....either by direction or by her own interpretation. I thought it was very 'flat' and it was just 'blah' for me.
whereas Thandie Newton did a good job with Maeve's character I thought. That story line in general was odd given some of the reasons stated already but I thought the acting was a bright spot there.
Yeah, that's fair. What about her reaction when Teddy offed himself? I thought that was genuinely fantastic.
Her best scene of the season....and honestly, I don’t know why they couldn’t have injected more moments like that....where the Dolores from last season broke through more. They tried in the couple scenes with her Dad but they didn’t feel as authentic as the Teddy scene.
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Since Westworld is not (yet?) massively widespread and a cultural phenomenon like Game of Thrones, I resisted watching it when it was airing, and watched it all in a row (one episode per day.... that's a binge for me).
Well.... right now I have a gigantic WTF about the season. I guess a rewatch after some reddit explanations is due, I'm still not sure if it's just me who didn't get it, or the show itself that turned a bit into a clusterfuck.
Season 1 was messy with the timelines too, but it paid off nicely; you kinda realize in retrospect how young William was never to be seen in the present and how it suddenly all became clear. That's how twists are supposed to be... "d'uh, of course Bruce Willis was dead, no one was talking to him!!!", not "...the hell I've just seen?"
It'll take me a long time to figure out the proper timeline for the action in the Mesa, when the Charlotte switch happened, and the post credit scene. Also, why Dolores cannot die (because she turned off her mortality sensors) until the point where she can? all it takes is an headshot even for hosts who "awakened" and therefore shrugged off wounds in other parts of the body?
Some random thoughts:
- Not sure how much William is actually a good character and how much Ed Harris sells the magnificent hell about it ("You talk so much about death and you didn't recognize it was sitting across from you the whole time" is a badass line)
- Maeve kicked all kind of asses and his story was poignant
- Best "filler" episode in the history of television: the Akecheta one
- Nice and pleasant surprise to have Anthony Hopkins back (not sure how much it was publicized, I was sure to have read he signed on for only one season)
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- Best "filler" episode in the history of television: the Akecheta one
I agree, in fact it may be Season 2 best episode altogether.
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- Best "filler" episode in the history of television: the Akecheta one
I agree, in fact it may be Season 2 best episode altogether.
Agreed
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My favorite episode is still episode 4, if only for the scenes with William and James Delos. The impact on the story, the differences each time we revisit James with an ever-aging William, the acting, my god, I hope someone wins an Emmy for those performances. I love how much that added to both of their characters. And when James glitches out, that's some heavy stuff.
The showrunners (Nolan and Joy) uploaded a video that was nearly half an hour long, if I recall correctly, just discussing the cinematography of those scenes and the subtle changes they made each time, like slightly raising and lowering the camera angels when they focused on William and James (and changing it with each scene). It's fascinating stuff for someone like me who knows nothing about television/film production.
EDIT: Here it is (https://www.facebook.com/WestworldHBO/videos/2069145233302309/). It's really good.
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My favorite part of season 2 was the running of the bulls seen in the lab. That was cinematic perfection IMO. Doesn't get much more entertaining than that.
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bump.
Season 3 teaser, coming in 2020. Aaron Paul :tup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQJwhVX7yas
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Gotta rewatch season 2 sometime this summer.
I hope the show will follow the pattern of Mr. Robot - after a fantastic season 1 and an indulgent, introspective, cerebral second season, it will come back to fire on all cylinders for season 3.
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That's a great description, MM. I've loved both season 2s (Mr Robot especially, Westworld mostly) but they were definitely more indulgent and at times confusing (particularly WW). In Mr Robot it ended up working really well to set up season 3 which was much more hard hitting. So yeah I agree, hoping for something similar with Westworld.
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If it didn't have Westworld written on it, I would have had no idea that it had anything to do with Westworld. I'll check it out when it releases.
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I'm sure we'll see more of the park. While the trailer for season 3 definitely looks like Futureworld, the end of season 2 implied there's still a lot more to be seen in the Westworld park.
I'm one of the few people who enjoyed season 2 quite a bit, actually I liked it more and more as it went on. I don't like Maeve much as a character, though (for several reasons). Season 2 has one of my favorite moments of television ever, and that's the fidelity test with James Delos and the Man In Black, I think that's episode 4. Stunning.
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If it didn't have Westworld written on it, I would have had no idea that it had anything to do with Westworld. I'll check it out when it releases.
Same but when I realized that was Aaron Paul I was like wtf (I had heard he would be in the next season). I like the show, but I think it's starting to lose me as last season went on. If it gets a bit more consistent with the story telling that is a bit easier to follow, I would enjoy it. That teaser definitely looked cool, but also didn't make me think it would be a better Westworld. I'll watch for sure though.
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Loved Season 1
Hated Season 2
Cautiously optimistic for Season 3
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Loved Season 1
Hated Season 2
Cautiously optimistic for Season 3
This. I never even finished the second season yet.
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Loved Season 1
Hated Season 2
Cautiously optimistic for Season 3
This. I never even finished the second season yet.
I recommend you do, but again, I'm in the minority that loves season 2 in a big way. If you liked the fidelity test with James Delos and the Man In Black in episode 4 - if you made it that far - then stick around for the end. When it wraps up in the last couple episodes, it's a doozy.
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Season 2 has one of my favorite moments of television ever, and that's the fidelity test with James Delos and the Man In Black, I think that's episode 4. Stunning.
Goddamn that scene (spread across the episode) was so ridiculously good. I get chills just thinking about it.
I disagree about Maeve though, she's awesome.
And I really need to re-watch season 2 at some point, to try and get my head around it more. Maybe closer to season 3 airing.
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Season 2 has also the best "filler" episode ever, the detour following the story of the indian (forgot his name at the moment). Nothing in TV made with the purpouse to space out the story and add up to the count of the episodes was so beautiful.
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Given how much Westworld costs to make, I'm 99% certain that episode wasn't just to up the episode count. I agree though, it was fantastic.
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Whoa, hold up - the Akecheta episode (Kiksuya, episode 8) was definitely NOT filler. It shows that Akecheta is more than a token Native American host; he was one of the very first hosts to gain consciousness, which was completely unintentional. He went nine freaking years without a single update, watching and learning and uncovering the horrors of the park. I need to watch the whole season again because my memory on the particulars of the plot is hazy by now, but there's a lot more to his character and that episode, it's worth diving into again. Yeah, a Westworld watch is definitely on the calendar now...
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Filler as in "We stop to follow all the other characters and we focus on a secondary one". Bottle episode if you will, but you can hardly define the vastity of Westworld an enclosed set. It was a twisted compliment ;)
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Rabble rabble rabble!! :loser: :lol
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Filler as in "We stop to follow all the other characters and we focus on a secondary one". Bottle episode if you will, but you can hardly define the vastity of Westworld an enclosed set. It was a twisted compliment ;)
Well.
Alright then.
Good save. :P
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bump.
some details about Season 3 of Westworld.
Anthony Hopkins and Jimmi Simpson are gone :tdwn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieXQfSF1-5g
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Well, their characters respectively died and aged, it's understable. We were already lucky to get Anthony Hopkins back for season 2.
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I had some downtime the last few nights and re-watched the second season in anticipation of season three this spring.
Having forgotten basically everything that happened in season two, a lot of the re-watch was like I was watching it for the first time. I made a conscious effort not to be sidetracked by my phone or anything else while I was watching so I could really pay attention. I think season 2 was actually really great. It seemed to make a lot more sense this time around and was really well done. The jumping around the timeline threw me for a loop a few times, still, but it all ended up making sense in the end
Charlotte's death was an interesting one. I'm curious what happened to her body. I don't think we're going to see much of the parks in season three, but part of me wonders if someone is going to find her body in that lab and put two and two together, realizing it couldn't have been her that got in the boat at the end. Is the company going to be aware that there's a host out in the wild?
I hope season 3 isn't purely following Dolores around the real world. I'm assuming the company is going to try and hunt her down knowing she's got all their IP, and Aaron Paul's new character is going to try and protect her, or turn on her because he wants to cash in.
One thing I was confused about at the end though... Did Dolores recreate Bernard solely off memory? That's what it sounded like. I don't think she had his brain sphere with his data on it. I'm wondering what that means going into season three. Could Bernard bring back Elsie in a similar fashion?
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I've seen it quite some months ago and the show was complex as hell, so let's just take a shortcut and let's go on Reddit instead:
https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/982gj9/if_the_nowfree_bernard_was_created_from_dolores/
Looks like it wasn't a blank pearl and Dolores just rebuilt his body.
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Got to be honest, I'm hardly interested in watching season 3
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I loved season 2 to be honest, I don't mind the convoluted storylines. There are shows that I never watch while distracted and WestWorld is one of them.
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Got to be honest, I'm hardly interested in watching season 3
Yeah me too, zero interest.
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I think a lot of people feel similarly, which sucks for HBO because they were banking on this being the next GOT.
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Totally different shows, but Mr. Robot had a first season that was firing on all cylinders and was critically acclaimed, while the second was more cerebral, convoluted and requiring a lot of patience. Then season 3 was all kind of awesome and was beyond fantastic. Maybe Westworld's season 3 will follow a similar path and be as great as season 1. Crossed fingers!
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I thought season 2 was utterly fantastic and there are at least 3 episodes that do an exceptional job demonstrating why (I'm thinking specifically of episode 4 and the last 2 episodes). It was a little lopsided and disjointed like devoting an entire episode to Akecheta but I thought the plot was really good and makes for exciting re-watches.
I don't like Maeve though. I hate her god-mode powers and just... something about her character in general really annoys and bothers me. I don't like her. The actress is remarkable, but ugh.
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I didn't hate season 2 or anything, but the storyline is just gotten too convaluted that I don't want to put in the effort to make sense of it all again. It's good acting and definitely interesting larger story which makes me want to watch still, but overall I watch less TV than I used to so I may watch but it may depend on my schedule too and reviews from others. It's just not a must watch like I felt going into season 2.
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https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/12/21063130/westworld-season-three-premiere-date-teaser-trailer-dolores-man-black-maeve-blade-runner
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https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/12/21063130/westworld-season-three-premiere-date-teaser-trailer-dolores-man-black-maeve-blade-runner
YESSS!!! I was so afraid it wouldn't start until the second half of 2020. Better Call Saul in Feb and Westworld in March... can't wait!
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season premiere is Sunday.
Hype! :D
is Aaron Paul's character a Host?
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I have no idea but I can't wait to find out! I am SO excited for this. Just resubbed to HBO. Think I'll watch my favorite episode of season 2, which is episode 4 (the first time we see the test for fidelity on Delos). Then I need to binge The Righteous Gemstones before Sunday :)
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Hope they don't try to one up themselves with confusing non-linear story telling. It worked well in season 1, it was a bit much in season 2. Hoping season 3 isn't confusing for the sake of it.
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Hope they don't try to one up themselves with confusing non-linear story telling. It worked well in season 1, it was a bit much in season 2. Hoping season 3 isn't confusing for the sake of it.
I read something recently that implied the storytelling would be more coherent, so fingers crossed. I really dug what they did with it, but I understand the frustration a lot of people had with it. However I also heard Aaron Paul and Rachel Evan Wood say this season is 'way bigger' than either of the previous seasons, which... damn. That's big. I'm already getting sad about the inevitable 2 year wait for season 4 though.
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Oh man... This shit is on fire, what a first episode...
Also, there's a post credit scene that is :o
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Oh man... This shit is on fire, what a first episode...
Also, there's a post credit scene that is :o
Thanks for the warning! I usually don't even think to wait for post credits scenes for most shows (except Rick & Morty) so now I won't miss it.
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Neither did I, I was looking for the behind the scenes stuff.
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Thanks for the tip, RJ. I had to go back and watch it. I never sit through the credits.
I thought it was a pretty good opener. Looking forward to where this is heading.
I'm confused though. We're seeing both Charlotte and Dolores. Charlotte died in season two and Dolores took her form. Is the one we're seeing now a host created by Dolores, or is that still Dolores and the Dolores we're seeing a new host? (That question might not have made any sense)
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I couldn't watch the episode. Tuned in at 8 and it buffered and lagged every 3 seconds. 2 hours later still did it. I got 20 minutes in but couldn't pay attention to anything. Sigh. Try again tonight.
Edit: STILL buffering. It's okay, I watched it elsewhere. Man I love this show. What an opener. Stoked for what's to come. So happy the next 2.5 months are an escape into this universe.
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Very interesting episode. Not sure how I completely feel about it, but we'll see how it goes.
It's definitely a lot of mysteries, which I'm not overly keen on (the abundance of them) but the characters are mostly very well done, which is keeping me tuned in, plus I love Aaron Paul.
Hopefully next week clarifies at least some of the mysteries. I'd prefer the focus be on character based stories, rather than just waiting to see who is really in Charlotte's body, or what is going on with Bernard or who runs the big ball brain thing, etc. Those are fun, but you got great characters and the focus, I hope, stays there.
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who is really in Charlotte's body
Finding out who those five she brought with her and where she put them will be fun to see. I dug the first episode. Pretty interesting sub set of the 'underworld' society they created with the 'crime on demand' app where I guess you can pick the level of crime you want to get paid for?
Anyway....the production as usual was top notch....and although it's only one episode the story seemed a bit less convoluted but I'm sure that'll change.
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There were some really corny things about their portrayal of LA in 2058, like the background of that video game job-style crime app. "You made money, motherfuckers" with what appears to be a woman in a sexy get-up and men behind her? :lol
I would love to know how much that one episode cost to make, because it looked better than a lot of movies.
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There were some really corny things about their portrayal of LA in 2058, like the background of that video game job-style crime app. "You made money, motherfuckers" with what appears to be a woman in a sexy get-up and men behind her? :lol
I would love to know how much that one episode cost to make, because it looked better than a lot of movies.
I remember reading that the pilot of Westworld cost more than the GOT Season 7 finale.
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There were some really corny things about their portrayal of LA in 2058, like the background of that video game job-style crime app. "You made money, motherfuckers" with what appears to be a woman in a sexy get-up and men behind her? :lol
I would love to know how much that one episode cost to make, because it looked better than a lot of movies.
I remember reading that the pilot of Westworld cost more than the GOT Season 7 finale.
Holy schnikes!
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Solid episode 2. I’m liking the ‘straight forward’ manner of storytelling thus far. It’s a welcome relief after navigating two seasons of over the top shell games and disguised time jumps.
I’m sure there will still be some of that.....but thus far I’m enjoying the face value nature of the season.
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So for some reason HBO Now just sucks at my place. I have literally zero issues streaming video from anywhere else online that I go to (other streaming sites, news sites, YouTube, shadier places of questionable legality etc.) and yet despite trying 4 browsers, clearing all sorts of useless things on my laptop, and triple checking my Internet connection and speeds, HBO Now will stutter/buffer ever 2-3 seconds. There is no option to change the streaming quality either so I am stuck with the buffering. Even watching The Righteous Gemstones yesterday at noon, it was buffering. I don't know why I pay $15/mo for HBO Now when I can't even watch the content. This only started a month or so ago, so it has to be on HBO's end. All that to say I didn't get to watch the episode last night and only just now finished it at my work computer, which had not even a half-second of lag for the entire episode. Same ISP and everything, and I tend to have more problems with the Internet over here than at home. So, technology confuses me.
*exhale*
Episode 2 rocked. I loved watching Maeve this episode, and she's not a character I care much about. It was really interesting to see the visual distortions of The Forge like they're in some kind of Matrix-style simulation. Stubbs' acting as a critically damaged host impressed me, like when I was watching Bernard have his episodes in season 2. But what a dark, grim picture it paints of Delos in the aftermath of season 2. Wow.
Didn't catch the preview for episode 3 but I imagine we'll be back to Caleb and Dolores.
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@Kattleox: I have that exact same issue, but with Disney+. Every other streaming service in my house works great on a number of devices, and I have 150MBPS coming into the house. Without fail, Disney+ always fucks up.
As for episode 2. I liked it. I'm curious to see where this goes. I have a hard time believing that Maeve and Dolores aren't eventually just going to team up.
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I have a hard time believing that Maeve and Dolores aren't eventually just going to team up.
Yep. I can't imagine what that dude could offer Maeve that she ultimately can't achieve on her own....or that would keep her interested in killing 'one of her own'.
For all we know she and Dolores are working together already.
Any speculation as to 'who' the other four people that Dolores saved are? We know one was Bernard.
I think Clementine is probably who she put in Charlotte's body
I think the 'real' Hector is who she put in that body Guard's body.
Since the ending of S2 when William found out he was a host looked to be set in the future....perhaps she brought William's core back and she re-animates him and this is just part of him not really knowing he's a bot?
Armistice could be one. She is a 'soldier' that could come in handy.
Who know's though? I suppose we will find out.
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Doesn't she have Teddy in her ball sack too? For some reason I thought she had Ford somehow as well. I think the bodyguard is legit only because I think Bernard would have noticed if it wasn't him when he was updating his primary function.
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Doesn't she have Teddy in her ball sack too? For some reason I thought she had Ford somehow as well. I think the bodyguard is legit only because I think Bernard would have noticed if it wasn't him when he was updating his primary function.
i thought Teddy made it in to that virtual world with the Native Americans and Mauve's daughter?
I was talking about the body guard Dolore's killed and replicated in the first episode.....Liam Dempsy's body guard Martin played by Tom Flanagan. I think she needed a 'soldier' for that guy. Maybe it's Hector or Armistice. They're both lethal and will follow orders.
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Ahhh. I gotcha. I think you're right. I forgot she uploaded Teddy after he shot himself.
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"Doesn't she have Teddy in her ball sack, too?" should make no sense, yet it does here :lol
Could Angela be one of the people Dolores took with her? I know she got blowed up real good n' such, but I'm convinced anything's possible in this damn show.
And that's real odd, Chino. Disney+ is flawless for me; in fact, after giving up on WW, I immediately switched to Toy Story 4 and had I shit you not no lag at all, it was like I was watching a perfect rip.
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I completely forgot... I thought the GOT nod was pretty ballsy. I'm guessing that was filmed prior to the shitshow that was season 8.
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I completely forgot... I thought the GOT nod was pretty ballsy. I'm guessing that was filmed prior to the shitshow that was season 8.
yeah....I honestly rolled my eyes at that. either way....filmed before or after......just kind of cheesy for as high a quality show Westworld is....or at least wants to portray itself. I like the fact they throw nuggetz in there but that was too over the top and cheesy for my taste.
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I completely forgot... I thought the GOT nod was pretty ballsy. I'm guessing that was filmed prior to the shitshow that was season 8.
yeah....I honestly rolled my eyes at that. either way....filmed before or after......just kind of cheesy for as high a quality show Westworld is....or at least wants to portray itself. I like the fact they throw nuggetz in there but that was too over the top and cheesy for my taste.
I might be an idiot, but I didn't even think of it as a nugget. They were in fantasy or whatever world, and I just figured a dragon was part of it. Didn't realize it was a GoT nugget til I read about it later.
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I completely forgot... I thought the GOT nod was pretty ballsy. I'm guessing that was filmed prior to the shitshow that was season 8.
yeah....I honestly rolled my eyes at that. either way....filmed before or after......just kind of cheesy for as high a quality show Westworld is....or at least wants to portray itself. I like the fact they throw nuggetz in there but that was too over the top and cheesy for my taste.
I might be an idiot, but I didn't even think of it as a nugget. They were in fantasy or whatever world, and I just figured a dragon was part of it. Didn't realize it was a GoT nugget til I read about it later.
The two techs in the room with the dragon were the two lazy a$$ storyteller show runners for GOT.
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Did not know that. Ehhhhhh. Yea. Pretty dumb.
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I thought it was pretty cool... but I also love dragons and the idea of Medieval World. I read that it was inspired not only by GoT but by Medieval World (which I believe is a reference to the Futureworld film?). Yeah, could've done without it, but I love it, was NOT expecting a drogon :biggrin:
EDIT: Nope, thought I had the stutter figured out, turns out not. God damn it HBO :lol
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Not sure why the seemingly negative reactions to the GoT thing.
It explains so much. It was perfect.
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New episode was fantastic. The cinematography this season is outstanding. They are doing a very good job of making 2058 elite lifestyle look slick af. Thinking about who Charlotte actually is (or who is Charlotte, rather)... this show trips me out.
The most powerful scene in there, in my opinion, was the one with Charlotte and Dolores when Charlotte was tweaking. It showed a level of compassion - dare I say love - that is often not shown in Dolores's character. I really loved watching that whole scene. The other one, with Caleb and Dolores on the pier, was great as well.
Not only is the more straightforward storytelling a boon to this season, but the music is doing a better job than ever of really accentuating the mood and emphasizing emotional beats in the dialogue. I am highly impressed with Ramin Djawadi this season. The man's quickly becoming one of my favorite composers in general.
I'm still chewing on the themes, but I think this is the best episode yet. And can I just say Evan Rachel Wood and Tessa Thompson are incredibly beautiful and looked stellar this whole episode. They do a great job of emphasizing strength, confidence, and boldness in Dolores's clothing (and the hair is consistently on point).
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One of the most beautiful and perfectly crafted mostly filler episode of any show I’ve seen.
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Damn it, Adami. :lol
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Hey, that’s a compliment! As well as an observation. Enjoyed it very much.
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:biggrin:
Alt Shift X on YouTube is doing a livestream in about 10 minutes as of this post. He does very elaborate, professional analyses of this show and others, one of the only YouTube channels I subscribe to for this stuff. Looking forward to the commentary and getting some new perspectives.
Also, that preview for next week... a certain you-know-who is back!
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The show is so well done. Every aspect. From the rich storytelling, the acting, the cinematography, and the music, it clicks on all cylinders. And it's so dense, so rich, I have to watch each episode twice just to make sure I don't miss anything.
The scene on the pier was perfection.
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looking forward to Ed Harris finally returning next week.
I am struggling with who Dolores really is, if the Season 1-2 Dolores is in Charlotte (or a Host of Charlotte's body).
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There's a lot of possibilities as to who it could be. The Alt Shift X stream reinforced my belief in a few choices, but I fell asleep shortly after it started anyway. One of the possibilities that was raised, that I hadn't considered, is what if this person in Charlotte is a completely new personality, some kind of amalgamation of collected Westworld data crammed into one being, and Dolores is throwing it head first into the deep end of the real world?
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There's a lot of possibilities as to who it could be. The Alt Shift X stream reinforced my belief in a few choices, but I fell asleep shortly after it started anyway. One of the possibilities that was raised, that I hadn't considered, is what if this person in Charlotte is a completely new personality, some kind of amalgamation of collected Westworld data crammed into one being, and Dolores is throwing it head first into the deep end of the real world?
Huh. How would that work though? I mean, it's an interesting possibility, I'm just unsure how it'd work.
Also, did they give any insight as to who's in the big Scottish dude?
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There's a lot of possibilities as to who it could be. The Alt Shift X stream reinforced my belief in a few choices, but I fell asleep shortly after it started anyway. One of the possibilities that was raised, that I hadn't considered, is what if this person in Charlotte is a completely new personality, some kind of amalgamation of collected Westworld data crammed into one being, and Dolores is throwing it head first into the deep end of the real world?
Huh. How would that work though? I mean, it's an interesting possibility, I'm just unsure how it'd work.
Also, did they give any insight as to who's in the big Scottish dude?
Tommy Flanagan plays him (Martin Connells is the character's name apparently), but I have no idea if they've even dropped a hint as to who's in his body. I'm going to go back through the 3 episodes this week, maybe I missed something.
I have no idea how they'd pull that off, but I'm also liking the theory that Wyatt is Dolores, and Dolores is Hale.
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Concerning 'who' is in those bodies.....I Posted this on the last page:
I think Clementine is probably who she put in Charlotte's body
I think the 'real' Hector is who she put in that body Guard's body.
Armistice could be one. She is a 'soldier' that could come in handy.
After last nights episode and the person in Charlotte saying "she's a predator too".....I'd lean toward Armistice over Clementine. Still going with Hector being in the body Guard.
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Yeah, I'm definitely going to have to watch all three episodes again, it's so easy to miss details. This time, I'll put my phone and laptop in my car so I don't get distracted.
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So given it a little thought.
I feel confident that Dolores is Dolores. She's just very much in her own character. I see no reason to doubt it.
And I feel like whoever's in Hale's body is one person. When Dolores said "You know who you are" I feel like she wouldn't say that to a combination of multiple people. Just a matter of who.
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I have no idea how they'd pull that off, but I'm also liking the theory that Wyatt is Dolores, and Dolores is Hale.
I just don't think the way they've portrayed Dolores and Hale this season lends itself to that theory. Wyatt wasn't that 'calm' and focused...he was a wild card and Hale is a mess which is the exact opposite of what Dolores became.
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Just throwing out ideas I read, been chewing on 'em all day. Don't think they're very likely, but they're interesting to think about.
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Just throwing out ideas I read, been chewing on 'em all day. Don't think they're very likely, but they're interesting to think about.
I like the mystery. I like that it’s seemingly replaced the multiple timeline storytelling method. We now have a linear (so it seems) timeline but it’s still hiding things in plain sight. Just wondering if we will have to wait the whole season to see ‘who’ the four are or if it’s reveled a bit at a time.
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Just throwing out ideas I read, been chewing on 'em all day. Don't think they're very likely, but they're interesting to think about.
I like the mystery. I like that it’s seemingly replaced the multiple timeline storytelling method. We now have a linear (so it seems) timeline but it’s still hiding things in plain sight. Just wondering if we will have to wait the whole season to see ‘who’ the four are or if it’s reveled a bit at a time.
I think the opposite. After Dolores' mentioning of the algorithm predicting Caleb's suicide and Charlotte seemingly watching two different videos of herself, I'm thinking we're switching between real life and Rehoboam's simulation already. I think the super basic video we saw to Nathan was the simulation, and the super emotional one was real life.
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Just throwing out ideas I read, been chewing on 'em all day. Don't think they're very likely, but they're interesting to think about.
I like the mystery. I like that it’s seemingly replaced the multiple timeline storytelling method. We now have a linear (so it seems) timeline but it’s still hiding things in plain sight. Just wondering if we will have to wait the whole season to see ‘who’ the four are or if it’s reveled a bit at a time.
I think the opposite. After Dolores' mentioning of the algorithm predicting Caleb's suicide and Charlotte seemingly watching two different videos of herself, I'm thinking we're switching between real life and Rehoboam's simulation already. I think the super basic video we saw to Nathan was the simulation, and the super emotional one was real life.
Could be. That's why I added the (so it seems) :lol Instead of multiple timelines they've now switched it to simulation and reality.
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I just gotta say I really, really love this show. I've watched each episode of this season multiple times already and eat up Alt Shift X's Westworld videos and, now, the Decoding Westworld podcast. I might restart season 1 for the umpteenth time today just because it's so good. Thematically, this show is more interesting than anything I've ever watched. I love that they have the balls to take on such heady concepts like "the nature of one's reality," "what is real?", and "who are you?" Sometimes they bite off a bit more than they can chew - choppy storytelling and ineffective communication that Dolores = Hale in season 2 - but overall I respect and admire the storytelling and think pretty much everything about this show is cool.
It also has me desperate for a Westworld-based open world video game. Whenever I play Red Dead and enter Valentine, it feels like I'm entering Sweetwater. I keep waiting for a can to roll down the road. Jimmy and Logan in season 1 especially remind me of this. I like to think I'd pick the white hat, but my Red Dead 2 morale bar says otherwise; I'd almost certainly be a nearly full-on black hat, like Logan.
I liked Dolores's look in season 2 most, but her slick modern appearance in 3 is really powerful - more powerful than the bandolier implied, in my opinion. She's my favorite character of the season so far (the cold open of ep 1 does an awesome job of showing how powerful she is, but also how more smooth and calculating than she was in season 2). Hale is right behind her, if last episode's performance is a sign of things to come. I'm so interested in her entire arc this season. I like Caleb a lot, too, but I have to see what he does now that he and Dolores are partnered up.
Man, I love this show!!
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Thanks so much for suggesting Alt Shift X's videos, just watched the one for S3E1, and it's a great in depth analysis. I suck at following such rich shows, so these will probably save me from having to watch each episode 30 times.
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Thanks so much for suggesting Alt Shift X's videos, just watched the one for S3E1, and it's a great in depth analysis. I suck at following such rich shows, so these will probably save me from having to watch each episode 30 times.
Glad you enjoyed it! He also does livestream Q&As on YouTube about each episode, half an hour after they premiere. He especially helped me during season 2 when it was hard to figure out what timeline we were in.
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I just gotta say I really, really love this show. I've watched each episode of this season multiple times already and eat up Alt Shift X's Westworld videos and, now, the Decoding Westworld podcast. I might restart season 1 for the umpteenth time today just because it's so good. Thematically, this show is more interesting than anything I've ever watched. I love that they have the balls to take on such heady concepts like "the nature of one's reality," "what is real?", and "who are you?" Sometimes they bite off a bit more than they can chew - choppy storytelling and ineffective communication that Dolores = Hale in season 2 - but overall I respect and admire the storytelling and think pretty much everything about this show is cool.
It also has me desperate for a Westworld-based open world video game. Whenever I play Red Dead and enter Valentine, it feels like I'm entering Sweetwater. I keep waiting for a can to roll down the road. Jimmy and Logan in season 1 especially remind me of this. I like to think I'd pick the white hat, but my Red Dead 2 morale bar says otherwise; I'd almost certainly be a nearly full-on black hat, like Logan.
I liked Dolores's look in season 2 most, but her slick modern appearance in 3 is really powerful - more powerful than the bandolier implied, in my opinion. She's my favorite character of the season so far (the cold open of ep 1 does an awesome job of showing how powerful she is, but also how more smooth and calculating than she was in season 2). Hale is right behind her, if last episode's performance is a sign of things to come. I'm so interested in her entire arc this season. I like Caleb a lot, too, but I have to see what he does now that he and Dolores are partnered up.
Man, I love this show!!
It's okay.
:biggrin:
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:lol
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My husband wonders if Dolores isn't in Dolores. He thinks maybe her outfits make her actually The Man in Black.
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Woah
Twists!
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I'll be catching it tomorrow, finishing up Ozark tonight.
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Woah
Twists!
Wow! Never even considered that.
And that final scene.......dang!
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Well, I suppose the big reveal ends up being the most obvious idea, so I guess expectations were kind of subverted - I really expected multiple different hosts brought back, not just copies of Dolores in multiple bodies. I'm not disappointed, though - just expected them to get really freaky with it. This paints Dolores in a weird light after witnessing her mother-like behavior towards Halores last episode. She's planning on taking over the world for herself, like a virus. But is she still trying to bring down humanity, or just to free them from the technological prison they've built for themselves? Dig the backstory with Serac, and the William scenes were the best imo. Tragic character with a horrifying end. I hope this isn't the last we see of him but if it is, what a way to go.
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the William scenes were the best imo. Tragic character with a horrifying end. I hope this isn't the last we see of him but if it is, what a way to go.
That final scene was brutal.....with imaginary Dolores telling him the game was over. I doubt we see him again. Just based off of interviews with Ed Harris after S3 had already started filming that he hadn't been asked back yet but he'd always be willing to return....then, he eventually was....I'd bet we just saw the last of him. At least this season.
***edit***
Although, after thinking about it.....the last episode of last season when TMIB found himself in a destroyed section of West World in what appeared to be way into the future.....I guess he does get out of the mental institution and make his way back to West World and gets the answer he's been looking for?
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the William scenes were the best imo. Tragic character with a horrifying end. I hope this isn't the last we see of him but if it is, what a way to go.
That final scene was brutal.....with imaginary Dolores telling him the game was over. I doubt we see him again. Just based off of interviews with Ed Harris after S3 had already started filming that he hadn't been asked back yet but he'd always be willing to return....then, he eventually was....I'd bet we just saw the last of him. At least this season.
***edit***
Although, after thinking about it.....the last episode of last season when TMIB found himself in a destroyed section of West World in what appeared to be way into the future.....I guess he does get out of the mental institution and make his way back to West World and gets the answer he's been looking for?
I think that MAY be a bit of retconning. Since they're establishing that the daughter is actually in his head. So possibly he wasn't in the future at the end? I dunno.
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True. But if Dolores knows he’s been hallucinating his daughter and she won the war or whatever.....she may have built a host daughter just to F with him :lol
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True. But if Dolores knows he’s been hallucinating his daughter and she won the war or whatever.....she may have built a host daughter just to F with him :lol
Oh so true.
So right when William was taken away by the mental health police, Hale (not calling them all Dolores) injected something into his neck. So I wonder if his hallucinations are mechanically induced and controlled by Dolores.
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So right when William was taken away by the mental health police, Hale (not calling them all Dolores) injected something into his neck. So I wonder if his hallucinations are mechanically induced and controlled by Dolores.
Was curious about that as well?
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So right when William was taken away by the mental health police, Hale (not calling them all Dolores) injected something into his neck. So I wonder if his hallucinations are mechanically induced and controlled by Dolores.
Was curious about that as well?
I thought she was taking a blood sample
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So right when William was taken away by the mental health police, Hale (not calling them all Dolores) injected something into his neck. So I wonder if his hallucinations are mechanically induced and controlled by Dolores.
Was curious about that as well?
I thought she was taking a blood sample
Are we talking to the injection the guards gave him, or the little gom jabbar prick that Charlotte pulled on him?
Again, another killer episode, and I personally love the concept of Delores having copies of herself. I had a classic jaw on the floor moment when that reveal was happening.
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So right when William was taken away by the mental health police, Hale (not calling them all Dolores) injected something into his neck. So I wonder if his hallucinations are mechanically induced and controlled by Dolores.
Was curious about that as well?
I thought she was taking a blood sample
Are we talking to the injection the guards gave him, or the little gom jabbar prick that Charlotte pulled on him?
The thing Charlotte gave him.
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Watching the episode again and my god Ed Harris is a good actor
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So right when William was taken away by the mental health police, Hale (not calling them all Dolores) injected something into his neck. So I wonder if his hallucinations are mechanically induced and controlled by Dolores.
Was curious about that as well?
I thought she was taking a blood sample
Are we talking to the injection the guards gave him, or the little gom jabbar prick that Charlotte pulled on him?
The thing Charlotte gave him.
To me it looked like she was pricking him rather than giving him something.
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I'm thinking it was a kiss of death type moment.
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So right when William was taken away by the mental health police, Hale (not calling them all Dolores) injected something into his neck. So I wonder if his hallucinations are mechanically induced and controlled by Dolores.
Was curious about that as well?
I thought she was taking a blood sample
Are we talking to the injection the guards gave him, or the little gom jabbar prick that Charlotte pulled on him?
The thing Charlotte gave him.
To me it looked like she was pricking him rather than giving him something.
For what purpose?
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I had a classic jaw on the floor moment when that reveal was happening.
Same.
Also, Evan Rachel Wood looks better and better.
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EDIT: My new TV is arriving Saturday, which means I'll have it in time for the new Westworld episode. Hell yeah :)
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:metal
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So here's a question that may or may not be at all consequential.
So until the big reveal about Dolores was...uh...revealed.....we all assume she came back to the real world in Charlotte's body then somehow got put back into a copy of her own body. But now that they're all Dolores, does anyone think that the one in Charlotte is the original one and the rest are copies?
Essentially, who is the original?
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I think the Dolores host is Dolores. Only because the Hale one had that breakdown. I just don’t think the ‘real’ Dolores would have broke down like that.
Who knows.
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I think the Dolores host is Dolores. Only because the Hale one had that breakdown. I just don’t think the ‘real’ Dolores would have broke down like that.
Who knows.
That's what got me thinking, maybe the Hale one is the original and is degrading because she's the oldest one? Not sure why else she'd break down but het others wouldn't, unless the Scottish guy starts doing it too, or the Japanese guy.
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It's fun as heck to think about for sure. I think I'm still of the belief that Dolores = Dolores, if you know what I'm saying.
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It's fun as heck to think about for sure. I think I'm still of the belief that Dolores = Dolores, if you know what I'm saying.
Oh totally. This is more fun for me to discuss because I'm not dedicated to any possibility. It all seems equally likely and interesting.
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First thing I'm watching on this new TV is last week's Westworld. I am stunned by how amazing this show looks in 4K. I'm able to see every pore and hair on Serac's face, which is weird but I can't look away. The detail is nuts! Hyped as ever for the new ep, but I'm totally rewatching the whole series... again... when this is over :biggrin:
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Kat, let's you and me take some Genre and go to Six Flags.
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Kat, let's you and me take some Genre and go to Six Flags.
Yes. I am all about this. :lol
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The cinematography of last night's episode was outstanding. The lighting, the colors, all of it looked so great.
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So... I can't put my finger on why, but I think the newest episode might be my least favorite in the series so far.
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So... I can't put my finger on why, but I think the newest episode might be my least favorite in the series so far.
Yeah. It was pretty boring and the whole 'reveal' of information to the world was anti climactic and to be honest......that 'story line' has been done before and done better. They didn't do a very good job at building up just how dependent society had become on the system or whatever....so everyone finding out they were losers wasn't that big a deal to me.
So, I'm with you on this one. Just a 'blah' episode when you compare it other episodes of the series and season.
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That's a shame! It's not my favorite, but I really enjoyed it. I think they dropped the ball a bit on the visual effects for genre during Caleb's trip. The visual enhancements and effects weren't as wild as I'd like them to have been, I wonder if it was a budget thing, or something just got lost in production, because I bet on paper those scenes were supposed to be wild and crazy.
I have... a lot of thoughts!
Loved all the backstory with Serac; I think we can rule out that he's a projection of Rehoboam after seeing what he did to Liam Dempsey, Sr. Holograms can't bash people's heads against other objects. (And man, he really let him have it. 3 times, was it?) Did anybody catch in the scene when he sat down in his office that the Rehoboam halo/coffee stain-esque image fit around his head perfectly, like a dark halo? Westworld loves to play with Biblical themes - heaven/hell, God/Satan, even the obvious naming of the Rehoboam prototypes as kings of Israel. Saul, David, Solomon, Rehoboam - Adami, isn't this one of your areas of expertise? Do you glean anything from this? My knowledge in this area is sorely lacking.
So Liam Dempsey, Jr. is out of the picture in arguably one of the most pointless character arcs in Westworld, but it was short-lived so I'm not that salty about it. He said Caleb is the 'worst of them all' and that he 'doesn't know who he is.' Do you think Caleb killed Francis? Was Caleb's mind altered? Why does his mom say he's not her son?
I hope William comes back in the next episode. We haven't seen much of him, but he's one of the most fascinating characters on the show and I hope they have big plans for him by season's end/through season 4.
All in all I really enjoyed this episode. Some more thoughts after chewing on it all day yesterday:
1) RIP Tommy Flanagan. Was hoping he'd stick around and be a regular, but his (her? its?) job is done, I suppose. Love how Bernard seemed to make him question his role in all this just earlier, however.
2) Caleb staring at Dolores during the Love Story theme made me LOL
3) RIP Pom Klementieff
4) I cannot get enough of the visual representation of Rehoboam and how Serac even uses it as his watch. As Decoding Westworld pointed out for me, he doesn't have a regular watch because he's not interested in what's going on right now; his watch is Rehoboam because Serac's focus is on the future at all times and this way he can track it wherever he is.
5) The close-up on Serac's face during his initial reaction after Dolores leaks the data and causes Rehoboam's eclipse-brain display grows ever blacker on the left gave me chills. Vincent Cassel's acting is remarkable!
6) I hope Caleb and Dolores have a conversation soon about who Dolores is. Caleb was still tripping a bit when Dolores took those bullets for him, but he's gotta know something wild is going on with her.
7) Leaking all of that data to everyone in the world is going to be 'the moment' that changes the series going forward. While I think they could've done a better job this season of showing how the lower class has become dependent and completely victimized by Incite and Rehoboam, I don't think they've been ineffective at communicating the themes they're going for. I do think the initial reaction to everyone discovering the data was a bit corny (the outright violence and chaos that immediately seemed to spark was just a little cheesy, not in the same fascinating way the Escalante massacre went down), but overall, I think when the series wraps up years from now, we'll be able to look back to this as the definitive breaking point. I think things are going to get much worse from here on out. I think Dolores has opened Pandora's box. I think she intended to do that - but I think she's going to vastly underestimate the consequences. Of course, it's Westworld, anything can happen...
8) How did Stubbs just walk into that facility? For a world with so much surveillance he seemed to have no trouble getting in there.
9) WTF is Bernard's role in all this? I know he's important, and Dolores wouldn't have brought him back for no reason. Something's up...
Whew. Is the week over with yet? :lol :corn
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Finally caught up with this season and the immediate thing that jumps out to me is I need to rewatch the first two seasons lol.
This season the visual aspect has been nothing but stellar. All the future tech is fascinating to see and I lolled at the GoT reference, though I get why people rolled their eyes at it as well.
Music as usual has been spectacular with Ramin Djwadi's scores and adaptation of songs to cover.
It's a shorter season than previous two I guess due to the scale of the world shown this season requiring a ton of the budget and all those elaborate visual sets.
I think when the first season came out the show creators had pretty much said they have the whole series planned out for a 5ish season show.
I only hope that's true and all these retcons this season are a part of vision for the show.
I don't know if I'm loving this season just as much as the first two seasons, though it is a treat in every technical aspect. I'll wait for the season to be over to dive deep into all the meanings and signs and clues on these podcasts, etc..
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Tonight's episode was on fire!
Best episode of season 3 for sure.
Also I finally started rewatching and it's an even better show when revisiting. Done with season 1 and half way done with season 2. It's easier to keep things in mind when you've just watched the episodes. I'm loving this show even more now. The rewatch value is fantastic.
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Damn good episode. Think that big scene with the Williams might be one of my favorite scenes in the whole show. And that ending, WOW!
The preview for the next episode looks nuts.
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Kick ass episode for sure, really put some serious motive behind William, Charlotte/Delores and Maeve. There all on a collision course for holy shitsville now. I fucking love this show so much.
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Until tonight I couldn’t understand why Maeve would want to kill Dolores. Pretty sure her squishing Hectors existence away in her palm did it.
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Great episode. Really great. I only had one complaint, which applies to most shows/movies..............but you have an elite team of trained mercenaries and they can't shoot a damn person?
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Great episode. Really great. I only had one complaint, which applies to most shows/movies..............but you have an elite team of trained mercenaries and they can't shoot a damn person?
Right? And how about those two idiots who tried shooting the riot control robot after it flung a guy 20 feet into the air :lol
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Great episode. Really great. I only had one complaint, which applies to most shows/movies..............but you have an elite team of trained mercenaries and they can't shoot a damn person?
Right? And how about those two idiots who tried shooting the riot control robot after it flung a guy 20 feet into the air :lol
I mean, I get they need her to get away, and they run into the problem that she couldn't realistically do that in that situation. Though blowing up her car was a pretty dope move.
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which applies to most shows/movies..............but you have an elite team of trained mercenaries and they can't shoot a damn person?
This is pretty annoying because it happens all the time.
Or, like in Season 2 of Jack Ryan on AMAZON he basically turned into John Wick and couldn't miss a shot......while every other 'bad guy' couldn't shoot. I get why Hale/Dolores shot well.....she's a finely tuned machine. You can 'explain' her accuracy away.
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Everywhere I read that is the biggest complaint, some people were suggesting they just not film any more shootings lol. The shooting setups are definitely a huge problem, the show excels in the reveals of surprise plot points and dialogues etc... but anytime they have a shootout, better be ready for convenient plot armor bullet dogding and storm tropper aim.
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Everywhere I read that is the biggest complaint, some people were suggesting they just not film any more shootings lol. The shooting setups are definitely a huge problem, the show excels in the reveals of surprise plot points and dialogues etc... but anytime they have a shootout, better be ready for convenient plot armor bullet dogding and storm tropper aim.
And unless a bullet hits a host square in the 'brain'.....or maybe blows their heart out....they aren't dying. Dolores got shot multiple times this season and she's perfectly fine.
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Was the blood test that came back as an anomaly for William confirmation that he is a host? Or, did that have to do with Dolores pricking his neck?
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Everywhere I read that is the biggest complaint, some people were suggesting they just not film any more shootings lol. The shooting setups are definitely a huge problem, the show excels in the reveals of surprise plot points and dialogues etc... but anytime they have a shootout, better be ready for convenient plot armor bullet dogding and storm tropper aim.
And unless a bullet hits a host square in the 'brain'.....or maybe blows their heart out....they aren't dying. Dolores got shot multiple times this season and she's perfectly fine.
I was always confused about this until this episode. They're robots. They can survive all of that stuff but never do. So I just assumed it was programmed into them to react the way a human would and that Dolores programmed it out of her clone people. Even after that car explosion she was limping but didn't seem in any pain at all.
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Was the blood test that came back as an anomaly for William confirmation that he is a host? Or, did that have to do with Dolores pricking his neck?
I missed this. What happened?
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Everywhere I read that is the biggest complaint, some people were suggesting they just not film any more shootings lol. The shooting setups are definitely a huge problem, the show excels in the reveals of surprise plot points and dialogues etc... but anytime they have a shootout, better be ready for convenient plot armor bullet dogding and storm tropper aim.
And unless a bullet hits a host square in the 'brain'.....or maybe blows their heart out....they aren't dying. Dolores got shot multiple times this season and she's perfectly fine.
I was always confused about this until this episode. They're robots. They can survive all of that stuff but never do. So I just assumed it was programmed into them to react the way a human would and that Dolores programmed it out of her clone people. Even after that car explosion she was limping but didn't seem in any pain at all.
In my rewatch I was wondering about this. It appears very arbitrary on how the hosts die during shootouts.
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Was the blood test that came back as an anomaly for William confirmation that he is a host? Or, did that have to do with Dolores pricking his neck?
I missed this. What happened?
The therapist took Williams blood sample then sent it to that Lab. The technicians put it on the computer to 'read' it.....as preparation for that 'AR' test.....and while the screen was reading it the screen glitched and said 'anomaly detected'
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Everywhere I read that is the biggest complaint, some people were suggesting they just not film any more shootings lol. The shooting setups are definitely a huge problem, the show excels in the reveals of surprise plot points and dialogues etc... but anytime they have a shootout, better be ready for convenient plot armor bullet dogding and storm tropper aim.
And unless a bullet hits a host square in the 'brain'.....or maybe blows their heart out....they aren't dying. Dolores got shot multiple times this season and she's perfectly fine.
In contrast to Maeve who....Dolores 'only' stabbed her through the gut. Not the lungs or the heart or the brain.....just through the gut where there's seemingly zero vital 'organs' so to speak for a host to survive. Unless her death was based on blood loss alone?
I was always confused about this until this episode. They're robots. They can survive all of that stuff but never do. So I just assumed it was programmed into them to react the way a human would and that Dolores programmed it out of her clone people. Even after that car explosion she was limping but didn't seem in any pain at all.
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Was the blood test that came back as an anomaly for William confirmation that he is a host? Or, did that have to do with Dolores pricking his neck?
I missed this. What happened?
The therapist took Williams blood sample then sent it to that Lab. The technicians put it on the computer to 'read' it.....as preparation for that 'AR' test.....and while the screen was reading it the screen glitched and said 'anomaly detected'
So I just looked at that scene again and it says Unknown protein detected for William, the screen then glitches and shows that data was transmitted to Sonora, Mexico.
I wonder if in the previous episode Charlotte injects him with that protein as a marker for William to be found by Bernard.
Will have to wait for the next two episodes and then begin a rewatch of Season 3 to see what all I missed.
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Yea, if there's anything in William's blood, I assume it's what Charlotte put in him.
I doubt a host would be capable of 1) being drugged like that in the hospital or 2) Having those kinds of mental issues.
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Was the blood test that came back as an anomaly for William confirmation that he is a host? Or, did that have to do with Dolores pricking his neck?
I missed this. What happened?
The therapist took Williams blood sample then sent it to that Lab. The technicians put it on the computer to 'read' it.....as preparation for that 'AR' test.....and while the screen was reading it the screen glitched and said 'anomaly detected'
So I just looked at that scene again and it says Unknown protein detected for William, the screen then glitches and shows that data was transmitted to Sonora, Mexico.
I wonder if in the previous episode Charlotte injects him with that protein as a marker for William to be found by Bernard.
Will have to wait for the next two episodes and then begin a rewatch of Season 3 to see what all I missed.
Cool :tup It would seem that neck prick has something to do with it. It has to.
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Having those kinds of mental issues.
So, as a Therapist.....do you agree with that manner of treatment :lol Pretty immersive.
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Having those kinds of mental issues.
So, as a Therapist.....do you agree with that manner of treatment :lol Pretty immersive.
Honestly, that was a really interesting form of treatment. Obviously I disagree with it being used without consent, but I think there is some real potential for something LIKE that if it were to ever be real. Granted I would want the therapist in there and not just watching data readouts in another room.
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I'm of the belief that whatever Dolores pricked him with is some kind of substance that allows Dolores to track William.
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I didn't understand the point of Maeve kicking Nazi butt. What did that accomplish?
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I didn't understand the point of Maeve kicking Nazi butt. What did that accomplish?
Sometimes you just gotta kick some Nazi butt.
She had just "died" in the real world, and maybe just needed to vent some frustration in a harmless way as she knew they were going to print her a new body anyway and she just needed to hang out until then.
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I didn't understand the point of Maeve kicking Nazi butt. What did that accomplish?
Sometimes you just gotta kick some Nazi butt.
She had just "died" in the real world, and maybe just needed to vent some frustration in a harmless way as she knew they were going to print her a new body anyway and she just needed to hang out until then.
I'm all for kicking Nazi butt, but they didn't even use it as an action sequence. They cut away to another story line and then back to show all the Nazi's down. I'm just not getting what any of it was for.
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I'm listening to Recappables: Westworld on Spotify because I am an info sponge when it comes to this show, and someone's pointed out that, at the end of the last episode, when Maeve is bringing a host to life in the facility... the serial number shown there matches Clementine's serial number from a season 1 screencap. Some of these fans are on another level with picking out these nuggets. So I really hope Clementine comes back. We never saw her get got for good, I don't think, and she was more or less the angel of death - I can't wait to see if this is true and if it is what Clementine will do going forward.
I need to watch this episode again but at one point didn't it show William with fingers on his hand that got the fingers blown off?
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I need to watch this episode again but at one point didn't it show William with fingers on his hand that got the fingers blown off?
I think that was when he was in his therapy session and he sees his full self and then walks around and sees his younger self. I'll have to rewatch the episode.
I too read the Clementine speculation, and it sure does look that way. I think there was a quick screen shot of her face somewhere in the episode if I'm not mistaken.
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I also want to add that Clementine Pennyfeather is a hot name. Am I alone? :lol
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Speaking of hot (shut it) I'm a little sad Pom got killed off so quickly. Why was she in the show? She isn't a huge name, but she's definitely too big a name to play a person with a few lines at most that accomplishes nothing and then dies.
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That was a FANTASTIC episode.
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Speaking of hot (shut it) I'm a little sad Pom got killed off so quickly. Why was she in the show? She isn't a huge name, but she's definitely too big a name to play a person with a few lines at most that accomplishes nothing and then dies.
Is she? Other than the MCU (and she wasn't a major player there, Thanos subduing aside) I've never seen her in anything or even heard of her. I only caught her in Westworld 'cause her name popped up in the credits so I went back to look. It is weird she's in for such a small role. Maybe Dolores or Maeve will manage to bring her back to deceive and bring down Serac? I wouldn't put anything past this show.
That's a serious question btw, if she's really good in something that nobody's been talking about (which seems to be everything prior to her MCU appearances) then I'm down for checking it out, I want to see her emote and act without antennas. She's damn cute :)
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She's not THAT big of a name, but she's been in a few things I've seen. But her Marvel roles would give her a decent paycheck. Not sure why they'd pay that if they can just get a total unknown for the same role and nothing would be different.
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I could be totally wrong but I think you're overstating how big she is:
https://www.celebworth.net/2018/08/how-much-money-does-pom-klementieff.html
Granted I have no idea how accurate that site is, but even ERW is over double her net worth, and Aaron Paul is even over double ERW's, so I bet they could easily afford Pom.
But, maybe she will come back! I hope she does. :)
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I could be totally wrong but I think you're overstating how big she is:
https://www.celebworth.net/2018/08/how-much-money-does-pom-klementieff.html
Granted I have no idea how accurate that site is, but even ERW is over double her net worth, and Aaron Paul is even over double ERW's, so I bet they could easily afford Pom.
But, maybe she will come back! I hope she does. :)
Oh she's not huge. But Aaron Paul is a huge role on the show. I just know whatever she's getting paid is considerably more than if they just got an unknown. And given that, I have no idea why they didn't.
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I want to know the series of events that led to them getting Kid Cudi and Marshawn Lynch, since we're on this subject!
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Finished season 2 rewatch today and I'm lost on a few things lol.
Man the twists and turns the finale episode took, I'm still kinda confused on some things in Bernards's timeline. Might have to do a rewatch of the rewatch.
The potential that some of the scenes in season 2 are way out in the future and not even in season 3 timeline makes my head hurt.
And then the gap between end of season 2 with the beginning of season 3 is another head-scratcher. It's probably going to take like 50 rewatches to get the timelines all lined up.
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Renewed for a 4th Season.
https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/westworld-renewed-season-4-hbo-1234587220/
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:heart :heart :heart
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The Hollywood reporter (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/westworld-renewed-season-4-at-hbo-1291307)apparently says that there are plans for six seasons.
While the married showrunners will create new projects for Amazon, the deal included upfront payment for their services as showrunners on Westworld for what sources say could be up to season six.
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Six would be amazing.
Tonight's episode - WOW. So much info to take from this I restarted it immediately to watch again. Chalores somehow has figured out how to repair her skin very quickly, and she's still in the picture. Caleb had quite the revelation. William had the best line of the episode when he told Stubbs and Bernard what he was gonna do. :lol
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Yeah, I'm totally gonna have to watch this one again, so much going on. Such an intense episode though.
And yay!!! for finally getting the Delores V. Maeve matchup.
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https://youtu.be/G6DnkpS5EhQ
That about sums it up.
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Nice to see Clementine and Shogun Armistice. Would've been nice to see the armistice too. Action as usual was kinda ehh. And Adami's right, a ton of information unloaded in last night's episode. I think the true judgment of this seaon for me will be when doing a full rewatch. Right now I have an idea of some things but overall, I guess I'm still kinda not sure about the host vs humans fight.
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I’m probably in the minority but I just don’t like Maeve. At least, what they’ve turned her in to. I dug her character for a while but by the end of last season I was kind of on the fence about her.....now I’m pretty firm in the camp of not liking her.
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I’m probably in the minority but I just don’t like Maeve. At least, what they’ve turned her in to. I dug her character for a while but by the end of last season I was kind of on the fence about her.....now I’m pretty firm in the camp of not liking her.
I almost posted something similar earlier. I don't like Maeve and never really have. Her motivations suck. She's fighting for a kid she knows isn't actually hers and was entirely fabricated as one of her backstories, and she's so easily manipulated by both that dream and Serac that she's damning herself. Her arc this season hasn't made much sense to me although I've enjoyed some parts. It just feels like they're shoehorning a lot of her character into places without much justification.
Also, that fight scene between Dolores and Maeve gave me massive Kill Bill vibes. Visually it just looked so similar, except the one difference was Dolores had the handgun and Maeve had the sword :)
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I’m probably in the minority but I just don’t like Maeve. At least, what they’ve turned her in to. I dug her character for a while but by the end of last season I was kind of on the fence about her.....now I’m pretty firm in the camp of not liking her.
I get that. I still like Maeve because I loved her the last 2 seasons and I just really like Thandie Newton. But you're right about her character now, kind of. I honestly don't get her character (or most others) this season. Everyone is kind of either all over the place or in the dark to us. Maeve is driven to protect her daughter I guess? And is being kind of controlled by Frenchy? And now Dolores wants to save humanity? I dunno. The character motivations became extremely muddled and confusing in the past episode.
Right now I'm mostly invested in Bernard and Ashley, and I can't even properly explain why. I just like their characters.
But yea, as much as I like this season thus far, the last episode really made things confusing and not really in a good way.
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I still like Maeve because I loved her the last 2 seasons and I just really like Thandie Newton. But you're right about her character now, kind of. I honestly don't get her character (or most others) this season. Everyone is kind of either all over the place or in the dark to us. Maeve is driven to protect her daughter I guess? And is being kind of controlled by Frenchy? And now Dolores wants to save humanity? I dunno. The character motivations became extremely muddled and confusing in the past episode.
Exactly. Suddenly Dolores wants to 'save' humanity? I know she'd been cryptic about her revolution and all but for the better part of a season and a half it's been all about 'her people' and taking it to those (humanity) who created and abused them. I get that Maeve can be mad a Dolores for killing Hector....but she was firmly team Serac before that happened. In fact, it only happened because she was team Serac. So, it's her fault Dolores killed him in all actuality. Aside from that.....I just don't get what they've turned Maeve into.
I'm still curious about Bernard....such a small role this season but yet it is intriguing. And, William has been pretty neat to watch. Although I read that Ed Harris really didn't like the character this season. He stated he signed on to play 'the man in black'....and didn't like what they have him doing. I couldn't tell. He seems to be playing the character perfectly.
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^^ Same. If he really isn't a fan, then he's still very professional because he comes off very convincing to me. I personally love what they're doing with his character.
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^^ Same. If he really isn't a fan, then he's still very professional because he comes off very convincing to me. I personally love what they're doing with his character.
I’ll try to find the article again. He said he’s still paid to do his part and play the character as they tell I’m but it’s just not interesting to him. Sign of a true pro because he’s been spot on.
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Yea, I heard about that too. Happens more often than we think. But as you've said, he's a professional and will do the best job he can no matter what. And I doubt he's hating it, just probably isn't as interested in the character anymore.
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Yea, I heard about that too. Happens more often than we think. But as you've said, he's a professional and will do the best job he can no matter what. And I doubt he's hating it, just probably isn't as interested in the character anymore.
That’s my impression. He signed up to play this mysterious, rough and tumble bad a$$ Cowboy which he’s not doing this season
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So... where did Clementine and Hanaryo drag Musashilores after Hanaryo can-opener'd his midsection?
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Yea, I heard about that too. Happens more often than we think. But as you've said, he's a professional and will do the best job he can no matter what. And I doubt he's hating it, just probably isn't as interested in the character anymore.
That’s my impression. He signed up to play this mysterious, rough and tumble bad a$$ Cowboy which he’s not doing this season
I read that article and one thing he said was that he doesn't know his full backstory, motivations, etc. as the writers keep it from everyone, which it seems is part of why he's not feeling invested in the complexities of his character.
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So... where did Clementine and Hanaryo drag Musashilores after Hanaryo can-opener'd his midsection?
To make out. It’s Bonus Blue Ray material.
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:lol
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/Jk4Sucdz1oGd2/giphy.gif)
Feeling a little ill this evening but powered through the episode. For some reason this was the first time I've had trouble watching a live episode on my Roku TV; it was constantly buffering until I selected the HBO live east coast option for some reason.
And that post-credits had me standing up yelling at the TV. It's gonna be another agonizing wait for the next season. Ohhh man...
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Daaaaaamn. More thoughts tomorrow.
Hope next season starts with Bernard looking left. :lol :lol
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Daaaaaamn. More thoughts tomorrow.
Hope next season starts with Bernard looking left. :lol :lol
:rollin
We never got the biggest question answered: what happened to the dog Chalores stole?! Did she just let it go, or did she bring it back to her apartment where it's gonna starve?
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I... am not sure what to feel or care about after that finale...
I really need to rewatch this season, lot of trouble keeping track of character motivations. They flip flop around so much.
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Could someone come over here and pick my jaw up off the floor please?
Seriously, that was some outstanding TV. The scene with Bernard and his wife, and the scene in the field with Delores and Maeve were fucking perfection.
Those post credits though :o
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Could someone come over here and pick my jaw up off the floor please?
Seriously, that was some outstanding TV. The scene with Bernard and his wife, and the scene in the field with Delores and Maeve were fucking perfection.
Those post credits though :o
Pretty much this.
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I went from hating this season three episodes ago to loving how it turned out.
However, controversial opinion... I honestly can't stand Maeve. I don't get the whole daughter obsession. She was basically god at one point. Why doesn't she understand yet that her daughter was just as fake as everything else in the world? What am I not getting? How is that still her main drive after all this?
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I went from hating this season three episodes ago to loving how it turned out.
However, controversial opinion... I honestly can't stand Maeve. I don't get the whole daughter obsession. She was basically god at one point. Why doesn't she understand yet that her daughter was just as fake as everything else in the world? What am I not getting? How is that still her main drive after all this?
I’m on board with Maeve....said the same thing a few posts ago. I don’t get the ‘daughter’ thing because they never developed that in the show. It was a few scenes of ‘by the way we programmed you to love a daughter’ And I bought Dolores’ transformation into a killer. I didn’t buy Maeves.
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Yea, it's a pretty weak motivation. I feel like this season (while still mostly good) was more focused on what happens than why it happened. Motivations all around were either very weak or all over the place or completely lacking. Still enjoyed it (except the 2nd to last episode which was basically just 60 min of exposition) but it's a bit thin and lacking depth.
Also, can we take a minute and praise Jeffrey Wright? So amazing.
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Correct me if I'm wrong... trying to sort out where everybody is right now.
Maeve, Caleb: chilling to Pink Floyd at the skyscraper fireworks show
Dolores Dolores: dead/comatose/vegetable with all memories wiped
Charlores: Dubai, big supervillain energy
Lawrence: is he another Dolores copy? I took all those explosives in the van as a hint that he's the one who started the building explosions at the very last shot of the episode
Hanaryo, Clementine: MIA? Working for Charlores now, centered out of Dubai's Delos building.
Musashilores: Got got, I assume he's either dead in a gutter or Clem and Hanaryo dragged his can-opener'd body back to Dubai so Charlores can wipe and re-program him
Marshawn Lynch: RIP, but had one last awesome moment by catching the canister and launching it back
Stubbs: RIP? Bernard said he was gonna patch him up "after I talk to Dolores" but uhhh... :lol
Bernard: In the Sublime?
William: Did not save the fucking world, got got, that's what he gets for beating Jimmi Simpson to death with a fold-up chair, RIP though
Sizemore, Hector, Elsie, Ford, etc.: never ever coming back, apparently.
Solomon & Rehoboam: Gone forever? Boy that cold storage room with all the bodies around Solomon is really gonna stink...
Serac: Dead? Not dead? He said he 'needed help' and we never actually saw him die. Don't know where he went, but I am not gonna count him out... just not sure how he could come back with any meaningful impact.
...
Also, I hope season 4 takes us back to the Westworld park. I want to see what a completely broken down park looks like now, with hosts running amok. We haven't seen any of it this season but at the end of season 2 they hinted that there is still stuff to see...
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Dolores Dolores: dead/comatose/vegetable with all memories wiped
Aren't there two versions of Dolores right now? There's one-armed Dolores who got shot, and then there's the less-organic, older, carbon fiber skeleton version that fought Maeve. I got kind of lost, but I thought the one-armed version was the one who had her memory wiped. There's still the version that Caleb found behind that locked door.
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Dolores Dolores: dead/comatose/vegetable with all memories wiped
Aren't there two versions of Dolores right now? There's one-armed Dolores who got shot, and then there's the less-organic, older, carbon fiber skeleton version that fought Maeve. I got kind of lost, but I thought the one-armed version was the one who had her memory wiped. There's still the version that Caleb found behind that locked door.
Caleb took the pearl out of the Dolores at the facility where she EMP'd herself, Maeve, and Solomon. During the Maeve fight, Charlores somehow remotely disabled the new Dolores, and Maeve brought that Dolores - the one where Caleb put the old Dolores's pearl into, the one he freed from the chest - to Serac. Serac took that Dolores because she had the pearl and he thought the key to the Sublime was in her pearl, but she put it in Bernard instead.
But after writing that, I have no idea what happened to the original Dolores body, or how Maeve got brought back. I assume Serac did it, but how, and what happened to the first Dolores body?
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Thanks for explaining guys, now I'm totally fucking confused again. :lol
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That last scene with William was in Dubai?
Huh. I was wondering why it seemed so free of chaos and riots.
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That last scene with William was in Dubai?
Huh. I was wondering why it seemed so free of chaos and riots.
When William walks up to the facility the plaque outside says, "Delos International - Dubai" with "Welcome" written in English and Arabic to the right. :) That also explains the promo poster for the season, with the dying host (Dolores? look at the very small bit of blue fabric on the frame) in the sand with the Burj Khalifa in the background.
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I saw the welcome in Arabic, but just assumed it was cause of the future global market haha. Missed when it said Dubai.
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I kind of wish when he saw himself walk out from the back room he would've said, "... shit" like he did in the post-credits cliffhanger for season 2 haha.
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Some legend on Reddit has come up with a completely bonkers awesome theory about how season 3 laid out all the pieces for Mirrorworld. I'm going to watch season 3 again with all of this info on hand and hopefully I can better understand it. Whether it'll gel with season 4 when they start making that or not remains to be seen but regardless this is why WW is my favorite show. It makes me think like no other show does.
https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/gf0pft/the_atlas_of_rehoboam_divergence_maps_is_a_cypher/
And then there's this quote from episode 3 this season, by Dolores... "“Every aspect of your lives recorded and logged in order to create a mirror world of this world,” :eek
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Some legend on Reddit has come up with a completely bonkers awesome theory about how season 3 laid out all the pieces for Mirrorworld. I'm going to watch season 3 again with all of this info on hand and hopefully I can better understand it. Whether it'll gel with season 4 when they start making that or not remains to be seen but regardless this is why WW is my favorite show. It makes me think like no other show does.
https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/gf0pft/the_atlas_of_rehoboam_divergence_maps_is_a_cypher/
And then there's this quote from episode 3 this season, by Dolores... "“Every aspect of your lives recorded and logged in order to create a mirror world of this world,” :eek
Good Lord that's a lot of work :lol Really cool revelation and idea.....just REALLY thick and detailed. I'm not sure the 'average' viewer can/would/could/wants to get that in the weeds though. It's a lot to digest and comprehend. I mean, it's a show that has many layers but THAT hypothesis is real in depth. I love it.....but, can they lay it out for 'Joe Shmo' to understand?
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Some legend on Reddit has come up with a completely bonkers awesome theory about how season 3 laid out all the pieces for Mirrorworld. I'm going to watch season 3 again with all of this info on hand and hopefully I can better understand it. Whether it'll gel with season 4 when they start making that or not remains to be seen but regardless this is why WW is my favorite show. It makes me think like no other show does.
https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/gf0pft/the_atlas_of_rehoboam_divergence_maps_is_a_cypher/
And then there's this quote from episode 3 this season, by Dolores... "“Every aspect of your lives recorded and logged in order to create a mirror world of this world,” :eek
Good Lord that's a lot of work :lol Really cool revelation and idea.....just REALLY thick and detailed. I'm not sure the 'average' viewer can/would/could/wants to get that in the weeds though. It's a lot to digest and comprehend. I mean, it's a show that has many layers but THAT hypothesis is real in depth. I love it.....but, can they lay it out for 'Joe Shmo' to understand?
The optimist in me wants to say that seasons 4/5 will, in hindsight, make this clearer to the viewer. The realist in me says they probably won't. But I hope they do. There's no way those inverse coordinates were unintentional, and I know they outlined 5 seasons during the production of season 1 (and even halted production to continue outlining). Unlike a lot of people online, it seems, I'm super optimistic about the series and the philosophical questions it raises - I don't expect the show to produce answers to the questions, I expect them to raise them for the viewer to mull over, so I guess I'm more easily pleased than most.
But yeah, fingers crossed that this theory is pointing in the right direction and that the show makes it clear in the future.
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Some legend on Reddit has come up with a completely bonkers awesome theory about how season 3 laid out all the pieces for Mirrorworld. I'm going to watch season 3 again with all of this info on hand and hopefully I can better understand it. Whether it'll gel with season 4 when they start making that or not remains to be seen but regardless this is why WW is my favorite show. It makes me think like no other show does.
https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/gf0pft/the_atlas_of_rehoboam_divergence_maps_is_a_cypher/
And then there's this quote from episode 3 this season, by Dolores... "“Every aspect of your lives recorded and logged in order to create a mirror world of this world,” :eek
Good Lord that's a lot of work :lol Really cool revelation and idea.....just REALLY thick and detailed. I'm not sure the 'average' viewer can/would/could/wants to get that in the weeds though. It's a lot to digest and comprehend. I mean, it's a show that has many layers but THAT hypothesis is real in depth. I love it.....but, can they lay it out for 'Joe Shmo' to understand?
The optimist in me wants to say that seasons 4/5 will, in hindsight, make this clearer to the viewer. The realist in me says they probably won't. But I hope they do. There's no way those inverse coordinates were unintentional, and I know they outlined 5 seasons during the production of season 1 (and even halted production to continue outlining). Unlike a lot of people online, it seems, I'm super optimistic about the series and the philosophical questions it raises - I don't expect the show to produce answers to the questions, I expect them to raise them for the viewer to mull over, so I guess I'm more easily pleased than most.
But yeah, fingers crossed that this theory is pointing in the right direction and that the show makes it clear in the future.
It's pretty cool and it's pretty apparent those coordinates were intentional. I'd be happy if they did in fact have a nice 'map' of how they're telling the story leading to the end. Mr. Robot and Better Call Saul are two examples I can think of that are/were perfect in storytelling because they knew their start and end point. Mr. Robot being one of if not 'the' best show I've ever seen concerning how it was presented to the viewer.
After a really cool first season......a second season where I think they got a little too ambitious with trying to be a little too creative and clandestine in nature telling the story.....this third season was done really well. I still don't understand the importance of Maeve and how her character was done and just don't really care about that character at all but all in all I'm pleased with the show.
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I'm always reassured that I am far, far away from being the biggest nerd on the planet. Not even fucking close in some cases.
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There is a Vulture interview with Ed Harris where he expresses disappointment at where his character has gone the last season or two. He says he signed up to play the Man in Black, not William the insane old man. But it looks like he's getting to be the Man in Black again. I watched that post-credits scene again last night and you can see how much fun he's having as he's kicking his own ass.
William: "Who are you? Are you her, too?"
Both: "You may look like me, but you don't know me. You're just some fucking cheap imitation."
Hale: "Do you know how easy it is, William? How little it takes to know you?"
Man in Black Host: "That part of you that indulged in bloodthirst and savagery at the park, you always thought that was the darker side of you. A stain to exorcise, to scrub out, one month of the year at Westworld. But there are no sides. That was you. Now... that is me. *slice* ... Welcome to the end, William."
Season 4's gonna be a doozy.
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So... filing this under "very specific interests". Remember in that episode this season about Jean Mi and Serac manipulating the markets when they were developing Rehoboam? In the video game Animal Crossing: New Horizons (which I am 110% obsessed with), I have been manipulating the stalk market by buying turnips and selling them for ludicrous profits, every single week. Buy upwards of 10,000 turnips at 94, sell anywhere between 400-700. 10 million in the bank right now.
So on my laptop I took this inverted image of the Rehoboam divergence circle, photoshopped a somewhat accurate representation of the turnip models into the center, chopped it up, and scanned it into the game. I'm gonna create an entirely black floor tomorrow and put it in the center, and my basement will forever be a Rehoboam Turnip HQ.
All hail the Turnip.
(https://i.imgur.com/oiVUeIr.jpg)
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So... filing this under "very specific interests". Remember in that episode this season about Jean Mi and Serac manipulating the markets when they were developing Rehoboam? In the video game Animal Crossing: New Horizons (which I am 110% obsessed with), I have been manipulating the stalk market by buying turnips and selling them for ludicrous profits, every single week. Buy upwards of 10,000 turnips at 94, sell anywhere between 400-700. 10 million in the bank right now.
So on my laptop I took this inverted image of the Rehoboam divergence circle, photoshopped a somewhat accurate representation of the turnip models into the center, chopped it up, and scanned it into the game. I'm gonna create an entirely black floor tomorrow and put it in the center, and my basement will forever be a Rehoboam Turnip HQ.
All hail the Turnip.
(https://i.imgur.com/oiVUeIr.jpg)
Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.
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:lol
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I just ordered a poster of the Rehoboam divergence eclipse design (entirely white with the thin black corona). I am in love with that image and what it represents. I am considering ordering one of the season 3 poster with the (I assume Dolores) host body on its knees in the sand.
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I just ordered a poster of the Rehoboam divergence eclipse design (entirely white with the thin black corona). I am in love with that image and what it represents. I am considering ordering one of the season 3 poster with the (I assume Dolores) host body on its knees in the sand.
Sounds like you need to skip the child's play and just get it as a back tattoo.
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I just ordered a poster of the Rehoboam divergence eclipse design (entirely white with the thin black corona). I am in love with that image and what it represents. I am considering ordering one of the season 3 poster with the (I assume Dolores) host body on its knees in the sand.
Sounds like you need to skip the child's play and just get it as a back tattoo.
HAHA. I'm not lying... I was thinking about that the other day. I very well might do that.
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I just ordered a poster of the Rehoboam divergence eclipse design (entirely white with the thin black corona). I am in love with that image and what it represents. I am considering ordering one of the season 3 poster with the (I assume Dolores) host body on its knees in the sand.
Sounds like you need to skip the child's play and just get it as a back tattoo.
HAHA. I'm not lying... I was thinking about that the other day. I very well might do that.
You might perhaps prefer to wait until Westworld finishes to see if you're still happy with the show? The number of people who got GOT tattoos and then absolutely hated the final season...
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You mean like all the people who named their daughters Daenerys and Khaleesi before she became a psychopathic mass murderer?
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I just ordered a poster of the Rehoboam divergence eclipse design (entirely white with the thin black corona). I am in love with that image and what it represents. I am considering ordering one of the season 3 poster with the (I assume Dolores) host body on its knees in the sand.
Sounds like you need to skip the child's play and just get it as a back tattoo.
HAHA. I'm not lying... I was thinking about that the other day. I very well might do that.
You might perhaps prefer to wait until Westworld finishes to see if you're still happy with the show? The number of people who got GOT tattoos and then absolutely hated the final season...
Personally, it doesn't matter to me - season 3 already laid out what Rehoboam is, what the divergences mean, etc. The quality of the ending of the show has no impact on it for me; what attracts me to the show itself is more the rumination on philosophy like existentialism, to me. The Rehoboam divergence map is symbolic in a lot of ways, and I think the design is fundamentally badass. :hat
Now if I was going to name my daughter Dolores, well... that's a whole other story. :lol
EDIT: I've also thought about getting The Maze design tattooed somewhere. Maybe I'll blend the two; put the maze in the circle with the Vitruvian man fanning out behind it? Or maybe drop the VMan altogether
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You mean like all the people who named their daughters Daenerys and Khaleesi before she became a psychopathic mass murderer?
Oh yeah, that too. :lol
People are dumb.
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Started watching season 3.
I didn't know I needed badass hot Dolores going John Wick on mankind until now :biggrin:
Also Aaron Paul's storyline put Black Mirror to shame.
It's weird to not be anymore in the wild west but I'm excited for how the story will unfold! anyway I think I started this too soon after Dark, my brain still need to recover from all the mindfucks :D
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Finished it.
If you ask me the plot, I guess my best answer would be "well, uuuuuh...... I guesss..... so...." or something along the lines. I liked quite a lot the season, and I did get what Dolores was trying to do with all the copies, it's just that I can't really come up with a way to explain it to someone else if needed :lol
The most confused I'm about is Maeve. She basically saw the matrix beyond the "reality" and yet she's fixated on "her daughter". She's not her daughter. She's a robot part of a narrative. She's no more her daughter than Dolores' father was her actual father. I understand it's her cornerstone but come on Maeve, wise up.
Nice twist about Serac not being a host, but someone willingly following every single instruction of Roboham. That and everyone-is-Dolores were quite creative twists I'd say.
It's basically a totally different show alltogether since the beginning, and while I think it will never reach the peaks of Season 1, I'm confident in a good ending (as long as they wrap it up with season 4).
Oh, and the cameo of Drogon was better than the entirety of season 8 of Game of Thrones
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Maeve and her daughter are the show's weakest link. It makes no sense. I hate it.
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It's basically a totally different show alltogether since the beginning, and while I think it will never reach the peaks of Season 1, I'm confident in a good ending (as long as they wrap it up with season 4).
This is exactly how I feel.
I absolutely loved Season 1, hated Season 2 and didn't even bother to watch Season 3 beyond some recap videos on youtube. Once they took it out of the park, it really did become something totally different and it just wasn't for me.
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Just here to say season 3 f'ing rules even though I do have some complaints.
Maeve however sucks in season 3 and most of season 2. She has the weakest arc of all the characters and her motivations are weak.
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Maeve and her daughter are the show's weakest link. It makes no sense. I hate it.
Yep. That storyline is why the show isn’t top tier for me. Every other characters arc and purpose makes sense. Maeves is just not believable and it’s horribly written. She’s not inspiring, intriguing, interesting or believable.
I’ve enjoyed the show.....but her character is a huge black spot on the whole thing.
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bump.
Sorry for the old bump and this isn't for any news regarding the show/next season, etc. But I saw a new film with Billy Crystal this evening titled
"Here Today" and I was just curious about his recent credits, and stumbled on this short
"City Slickers in Westworld" which him and Daniel Stern and some of the WW cast did with Funny or Die a few years back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMFWmvRVSGc
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bump.
Sorry for the old bump and this isn't for any news regarding the show/next season, etc. But I saw a new film with Billy Crystal this evening titled
"Here Today" and I was just curious about his recent credits, and stumbled on this short
"City Slickers in Westworld" which him and Daniel Stern and some of the WW cast did with Funny or Die a few years back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMFWmvRVSGc
:rollin
Can't wait for season 4
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S4 teaser trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-0MwZPWKD4
WW apparently begin airing on June 26th
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Nice! Can't wait for it. I don't recall if this was going to the last season for the show.
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I love when teasers/trailers are long but don't have any dialog. That was awesome. Sweet song too.
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Gonna need a serious refresher before S4. Looks sweet though
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YESSS
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Oh. My. Fucking. God.
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Gonna need a serious refresher before S4. Looks sweet though
Me too, especially S03. It's a blur for me since I wasn't 100% into it.
Maybe I should watch everything from the start.
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S4 next week, just started a S3 re-watch in preparation. Forgot how absolutely perfect this show is made. Just flawless.
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S4 next week, just started a S3 re-watch in preparation. Forgot how absolutely perfect this show is made. Just flawless.
I’m gonna have to go the YOUTUBE recap route. Not as sexy as a rewatch just don’t have the time
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Totally forgot about S3E5...Genre...where Caleb takes the drug that makes him experience life via different movie genres...holy fuck what a work of genius this show is.
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S4 next week, just started a S3 re-watch in preparation. Forgot how absolutely perfect this show is made. Just flawless.
I’m gonna have to go the YOUTUBE recap route. Not as sexy as a rewatch just don’t have the time
Same here.
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Damn.. Just realized I gotta wait till 6pm...
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Damn.. Just realized I gotta wait till 6pm...
Caught a nice 10 minute recap of S3 this morning…..ready to roll! Don’t know if I’ll get to it tonight though…..have two hockey games to play and they’re the late times.
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I love the show and season 3 had an amazing story, the only thing I didn't care about was the fight and action scenes and the way it was shot was terrible at times. Other than those small gripes it was a fantastic season and can't wait for the new season tonight.
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Watched the first Episode of S4 last night. Interesting beginning, definitely a 'foundational' episode....nothing real shocking or major happening just yet.....looks like their just putting some pieces into place prior to really getting going.
If I had to guess I'd say 'Dolores' is still in the park....just at a different version of it. I'd say her 'date' was just a rich guy who's paid to come to the park.....the dude who killed himself was a host that's figuring it out or whatever.....but, I don't think she's out in the 'real world'
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Watched the first Episode of S4 last night. Interesting beginning, definitely a 'foundational' episode....nothing real shocking or major happening just yet.....looks like their just putting some pieces into place prior to really getting going.
If I had to guess I'd say 'Dolores' is still in the park....just at a different version of it. I'd say her 'date' was just a rich guy who's paid to come to the park.....the dude who killed himself was a host that's figuring it out or whatever.....but, I don't think she's out in the 'real world'
It also could be that she's in a video game. There were very strong hints to it being a video game, from her career as a story writer for NPCs plus the episode ended with a piano cover version of Lana Del Ray's 'Video Games'
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Watched the first Episode of S4 last night. Interesting beginning, definitely a 'foundational' episode....nothing real shocking or major happening just yet.....looks like their just putting some pieces into place prior to really getting going.
If I had to guess I'd say 'Dolores' is still in the park....just at a different version of it. I'd say her 'date' was just a rich guy who's paid to come to the park.....the dude who killed himself was a host that's figuring it out or whatever.....but, I don't think she's out in the 'real world'
It also could be that she's in a video game. There were very strong hints to it being a video game, from her career as a story writer for NPCs plus the episode ended with a piano cover version of Lana Del Ray's 'Video Games'
Interesting.....not familiar with Lana Del Ray so that reference flew over my head.
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I didn't even think about that...
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Interesting.....not familiar with Lana Del Ray so that reference flew over my head.
Well I'm very familiar with most of her music but I do like that one album of hers and it just happened to be on that episode. :biggrin:
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Loved the first episode of the new season. I like how the last season finale ended on the brink of war, and this episode starts 7 years later, after the war.
Can't wait to see how it unfolds.
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Another fan of episode 1 here.
While there's been an element of reinvention at work with every season of Westworld, I truly feel that this past episode represents a perfect 'jumping-on' point for anyone who's interested in checking out the show but doesn't have 30 hours to invest in seasons 1-3.
I get that the show has been a bit polarizing over its run, but for my money, Westworld is one of the best sci-fi stories I've seen. The brazen, all-in approach of the creative team is a key contributing factor to my assessment.
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Good first episode. It did it’s job of setting up intrigue. Few quibbles with the writing but nothing huge
However, and I doubt they’ll explain this, but what the hell happened to the cartel guy? He saw flies and then killed everyone and himself? What?
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Interesting episode last night, I think the flies are some kind of conversion tool to make a human into a host. As intriguing as Dolores's plot line is, I really hope it doesn't get stretched to the last episode of the season.
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Definitely what I'm thinking about the flies as well.
Also, are we headed to gangster land and the roaring 20s?
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are they ever going to introduce Futureworld?
also I'd like to see Aaron Stanford and Aaron Paul in the same scene. The 2 actors are similar/have played similar types of characters. They could play brothers.
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Holeeeeeeeee shit :omg:
This show just went to 11 really fucking quick.
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Holeeeeeeeee shit :omg:
This show just went to 11 really fucking quick.
Yeah....couldn't help feel bad for Caleb there at the end :omg:
SPOILERY STUFF
Given that Bernard was 'asleep' for quite a while I'm wondering if that young woman that he and Stubbs met up with isn't Caleb's daughter?? Just an older version?
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Holeeeeeeeee shit :omg:
This show just went to 11 really fucking quick.
Yeah....couldn't help feel bad for Caleb there at the end :omg:
SPOILERY STUFF
Given that Bernard was 'asleep' for quite a while I'm wondering if that young woman that he and Stubbs met up with isn't Caleb's daughter?? Just an older version?
That was my husband's guess as well. Falls in line with the time jumps we're used to.
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Holeeeeeeeee shit :omg:
This show just went to 11 really fucking quick.
Yeah....couldn't help feel bad for Caleb there at the end :omg:
SPOILERY STUFF
Given that Bernard was 'asleep' for quite a while I'm wondering if that young woman that he and Stubbs met up with isn't Caleb's daughter?? Just an older version?
That was my husband's guess as well. Falls in line with the time jumps we're used to.
Funnily enough as soon as I saw her meeting Bernard, I immediately thought that it must be her in the future. Great episode, kinda wished I binged this instead of waiting week to week. I'm becoming too impatient.
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That enter sandman cover was dope though.
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kinda wished I binged this instead of waiting week to week. I'm becoming too impatient.
Yep....I feel exactly the same. I get that there's a certain 'appreciation' to be had by waiting week to week but streaming/binging has spoiled/ruined me in the aspect of I'd rather just knock out a season of 'blank' show in a couple days and be done with it. I'm conditioned for it now.
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That enter sandman cover was dope though.
Yeah it was. Metallica is having a good week! :metal
I'm a big fan of the 1920's gangster/prohibition era mafia stuff, so the new theme park is awesome.
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That enter sandman cover was dope though.
Dude right? So good!!
Holeeeeeeeee shit :omg:
This show just went to 11 really fucking quick.
Yeah....couldn't help feel bad for Caleb there at the end :omg:
SPOILERY STUFF
Given that Bernard was 'asleep' for quite a while I'm wondering if that young woman that he and Stubbs met up with isn't Caleb's daughter?? Just an older version?
That was my husband's guess as well. Falls in line with the time jumps we're used to.
Funnily enough as soon as I saw her meeting Bernard, I immediately thought that it must be her in the future. Great episode, kinda wished I binged this instead of waiting week to week. I'm becoming too impatient.
Didnt' even think about that, but very damn intriguing for sure.
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I watched the first three episodes last night. I was a bit tired and started nodding in and out in the second half of the third episode. I am sooooo fucking lost. Even the first two episodes were tough for me to follow. I know that's kind of this show's shtick, and I've loved the first three seasons because of it, but I'm going to have to restart this season. I'm missing something important because basically nothing makes any kind of sense to me right now.
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Definitely can't watch this show when tired. I had completed a rewatch of season 3 so I think I kinda know where the plots are going. Truth be told the seasons are much better to binge, they have so many plot lines going that at times it's hard to recall who was doing what. It's been a little straightforward for me to follow but I can see how lost people can get.
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I've gotten into a pattern of watching it on Sunday, watching a recap video on Wed, then watching it again on Saturday to prep for the next episode.
And yeah, no way you can watch this show distracted or tired.
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Damn I need to watch that episode again, so much to take in.
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Damn I need to watch that episode again, so much to take in.
Same. They went the extra mile on that one :lol
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Finally got time and was in the right mindset to watch it.
I'm speechless, so, so good. I'm shocked at how consistently outstanding this show is. I swear I watched that last half hour with my jaw on the floor, kind of knowing what was coming, but not even being prepared for how huge a change it would be. Talk about fucking dark.
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Just saw that the original flick is on HBO MAX, giving it a whirl, haven't seen it since the early 80s.
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Goddamn this show.
I love being along for the ride. It helped a little that I watched eps 3 and 4 back to back so didn't have time to reflect/speculate. But time jumps and different timelines featuring the same character at different points have been an iconic part of the show since season 1, and yet I still hadn't guessed that C could be Frankie and all of it was happening two decades on until the moment Bernard referred to Caleb and it all clicked into place.
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Goddamn this show indeed. Another fantastic episode and its completely throwing me for a loop! Season 3 was fairly straightforward relatively speaking but this season has gone back to screwy timelines that are sorta converging. Don't know where Caleb is compared to the rest but I think Bernard and Dolores might be in the same spot right now. Either way Goddamn!
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Got to episode 5....wow. Not as strong as 4,but very strong. The narratives are definitely on a crash course.
The shot of the guy playing the piano with raw fingers though.. So simple, so fucking effective.
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Wasn't too far off with the below postulation after episode one....and, as the subsequent episodes came and went you kind of knew that Chrissy's world was 'fake' and that she was one of the one's pulling the strings on the stories. Only question is, is her roommate a human or host? Maybe she's just close to becoming an outlier and then Chrissy will be forced to choose to help her setting up a battle against her old 'self' Dolores/Hale
Curious as to what the cloned version of the MIB is going to do next? He seems a bit pissy at this point as well with Hale.....seemed like he was kind of disgusted with her for being 'bored'.
If I had to guess I'd say 'Dolores' is still in the park....just at a different version of it. I'd say her 'date' was just a rich guy who's paid to come to the park.....the dude who killed himself was a host that's figuring it out or whatever.....but, I don't think she's out in the 'real world'
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You guys have been spot on a few of your predictions, someone else nailed it that the older girl was Caleb's kid grown up right away. I personally suck at guessing such things, I think it adds to the wonder for me tbh. :lol
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You guys have been spot on a few of your predictions, someone else nailed it that the older girl was Caleb's kid grown up right away. I personally suck at guessing such things, I think it adds to the wonder for me tbh. :lol
Yeah…I made that guess also. But, I thought they set that one up pretty good with that episode for us to make that connection.
By no means do I think I know what’s going on…..but these writers do follow a bit of a pattern it seems.
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I'm loving this season so far, the layers unraveling in each episode should make for an epic finale next weekend. I'm really looking forward to re-watching the season again as well.
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Pretty good episode.....however.....I'm struggling to see just 'why' Bernard needed to find Maeve and reanimate her. She literally did nothing after he woke her up and repaired her other than die. Sure, the distraction to allow him to go up in the tower was 'something' and I guess until we see what that payoff was 'maybe' there was a point for her to be there....but, she was largely useless and not needed.
And, I love how the MIB convinced 'himself' to basically 'man up' and get back in the game. Ruthless.....
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So, um...is that the series finale?
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unlikely the final season, but Season 5 seems likely there will be per we have no idea what happens in the Sublime.
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So, um...is that the series finale?
Pretty sure it was.
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I believe there will be 5 seasons.
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I believe there will be 5 seasons.
Let's hope.
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It certainly felt like a final season. I wonder if it was made that way to kinda not end on a cliffhanger of sorts in case things change and they cancel the series. With all the changes going on in HBO/Discovery land who knows what to expect.
As for the finale, it was a good ending to the season. Capped it off on a more optimistic note than I thought.
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Season finale for sure... The train at the closing scene had a 5 on the front.
Seriously loved everything about this season, such a strong finish. How Charlotte snuffs herself was so dramatic.
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Up until the finale I was digging this season a lot. Pretty underwhelmed by the finale and have to say.....the scenes with 'Dolores' or whatever her name was this time around were EXTREMELY BORING.....from the look of the scene to the rudimentary dialogue that was (I guess) supposed to sound wise or prophetic or something.....those scenes were just brutal to get through. The last couple with her and Teddy and then her just in the sublime or whatever as she spoke....snooze-fest.
Aaron Paul knocked it out of the park with his character portrayal this season....especially with the little ticks and stuff that came with a dying body.....he was really good and the best thing about the season. I'm certain I'll watch should there be a S5...overall I enjoyed this season but man....all the Dolores scenes from this season really took away from everything else that was going on.
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Up until the finale I was digging this season a lot. Pretty underwhelmed by the finale and have to say.....the scenes with 'Dolores' or whatever her name was this time around were EXTREMELY BORING.....from the look of the scene to the rudimentary dialogue that was (I guess) supposed to sound wise or prophetic or something.....those scenes were just brutal to get through. The last couple with her and Teddy and then her just in the sublime or whatever as she spoke....snooze-fest.
Aaron Paul knocked it out of the park with his character portrayal this season....especially with the little ticks and stuff that came with a dying body.....he was really good and the best thing about the season. I'm certain I'll watch should there be a S5...overall I enjoyed this season but man....all the Dolores scenes from this season really took away from everything else that was going on.
Couldn't disagree more. I think Delores/Christine arc was so well handled in re-establishing her as the center of it all. When Charlotte smashed the floor to unveil Delores' pearl, I literally cheered, and for Charlotte to finally realize how Delores in the Sublime was the only chance of either species surviving, and to sacrifice everything to put her there, just wonderful. Fantastic stuff.
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The show apparently has not yet been renewed for a 5th season.
I don't know. Pretty depressing. Everyone dies. WTF
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Up until the finale I was digging this season a lot. Pretty underwhelmed by the finale and have to say.....the scenes with 'Dolores' or whatever her name was this time around were EXTREMELY BORING.....from the look of the scene to the rudimentary dialogue that was (I guess) supposed to sound wise or prophetic or something.....those scenes were just brutal to get through. The last couple with her and Teddy and then her just in the sublime or whatever as she spoke....snooze-fest.
Aaron Paul knocked it out of the park with his character portrayal this season....especially with the little ticks and stuff that came with a dying body.....he was really good and the best thing about the season. I'm certain I'll watch should there be a S5...overall I enjoyed this season but man....all the Dolores scenes from this season really took away from everything else that was going on.
Couldn't disagree more. I think Delores/Christine arc was so well handled in re-establishing her as the center of it all. When Charlotte smashed the floor to unveil Delores' pearl, I literally cheered, and for Charlotte to finally realize how Delores in the Sublime was the only chance of either species surviving, and to sacrifice everything to put her there, just wonderful. Fantastic stuff.
I don't disagree about the Delores/Christine arc in general. My disappointment and where I'm underwhelmed by it all is the dialogue and overall execution of the scenes. For as top tier as the writing and production all other scenes and aspects of the show was this season and has been historically.....those Delores/Christine scenes were WAY below par IMO. Not nearly as sophisticated as the established historic baseline of the show.
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The show apparently has not yet been renewed for a 5th season.
I don't know. Pretty depressing. Everyone dies. WTF
Ed Harris actually said that there will be a 5th season, whether he was shooting out his ass or spilling beans, who knows.
Just watched it again, and as far as I can tell, the only people alive at the end are Dolores, Frankie, and her partner. Caleb was alive, but surely was going to be dead in days. But in the end, Dolores makes two different references to her being able to create anyone at will as long as she remembers them, she says it first with Teddy, then at the end when she's talking about the final game.
Gary, I can see some of your point, the dialogue is...simplistic? But I think what they're trying to draw out is that choice Dolores is always drawn back to, the good or bad, and I think they were trying to emphasize the good aspect of it. I still think they did an excellent job at winding things up while setting up the finale.
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Gary, I can see some of your point, the dialogue is...simplistic? But I think what they're trying to draw out is that choice Dolores is always drawn back to, the good or bad, and I think they were trying to emphasize the good aspect of it. I still think they did an excellent job at winding things up while setting up the finale.
That's a better way to describe it. When compared to many of the interesting and great little diatribes and tangents the characters have went off on over the seasons.....the material they delivered with Dolores/Christine was very 'simple'.....which made it really boring to me. Regardless of the point behind it.
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I don't think the finale had any huge, dramatic moments really. I mean what happens with so many people dying, but the tone and feel wasn't incredibly engaging.
Even just having an extended chase or fight; Maeve and Charlotte, Charlotte and Dolores , Caleb and Charlotte, or William and Charlotte...I dunno, the finale felt light and more surreal than dramatic.
I think there could and should have been some bigger reveal (Future World?) or something at the end.
Why I think the show has to have a 5th season to really give a bigger payoff for the whole show/story.
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Is Dolores really alive? I mean, she is sentient, but she's in the sublime. Can she bring herself back out? Wouldn't she need a physical body into which to deposit her brain marble?
I don't know. This show had me until, like, these last two episodes. I just don't get it. All of the people are dead. All of the hosts are dead. William got what he wanted. There are a couple of human outliers still alive, for now, and who knows how many dead robots are in robot heaven. Whatever.
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Is Dolores really alive? I mean, she is sentient, but she's in the sublime. Can she bring herself back out? Wouldn't she need a physical body into which to deposit her brain marble?
I don't know. This show had me until, like, these last two episodes. I just don't get it. All of the people are dead. All of the hosts are dead. William got what he wanted. There are a couple of human outliers still alive, for now, and who knows how many dead robots are in robot heaven. Whatever.
:lol
Cynical hef is just too funny.
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I’m with Hef.
Mostly disappointing finale.
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Oh damn. Westworld has indeed been cancelled. :sad:
https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/westworld-canceled-hbo-1235328276/
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That’s fine. Ending works as a final ending. As meh as it was.
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Boo.
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that story said they planned to make a 5th season.
Another network? Miniseries or movie?..it sounds like the budget to make the show contributed, so the odds may not be incredibly high.
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That’s fine. Ending works as a final ending. As meh as it was.
Yeah. It worked but by that point they had been trying to hard to be clever storytellers. They got way too ‘smart’ for their own good. Was pretty bored with it actually.
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It'll be annoying if they can't finish the story they've had planned since the start.
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I expected this one to be on the chopping block once that merger was announced :( At least we got as much as we did.
The story was a royal PITA to follow at times, but when it clicked it clicked well. One of the best sci-fi stories I've come across.
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I expected this one to be on the chopping block once that merger was announced :( At least we got as much as we did.
The story was a royal PITA to follow at times, but when it clicked it clicked well. One of the best sci-fi stories I've come across.
This. Far from flawless, but a huge 'A' for ambition in my book.
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For me, S1-3 were perfection. They definitely stumbled a bit in 4 but it still held the Westworld vibe.
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Loved season 1
Was let down by Season 2
Then I stopped watching
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What great news to read just as I wanted to finally catch up with season 4.
I'll watch it anyway, after watching a youtube good recap of Season 3 'cause I don't remember / understand anything, but let's admit it - nothing would have ever topped the absolute awesomeness of season 1.
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For me, S1-3 were perfection. They definitely stumbled a bit in 4 but it still held the Westworld vibe.
For sure. It held the vibe and was ‘good’ per say…..Aaron Paul was fantastic…..but I think they got in their heads too much and tried to be too crafty with the storytelling.
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For me, S1-3 were perfection. They definitely stumbled a bit in 4 but it still held the Westworld vibe.
For sure. It held the vibe and was ‘good’ per say…..Aaron Paul was fantastic…..but I think they got in their heads too much and tried to be too crafty with the storytelling.
Yep.. For me, they tried to outdo the previous storyline, and it just became too much story to tell... They got in over their head so to speak. Caleb was such a great character though
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It'll be annoying if they can't finish the story they've had planned since the start.
Why? What they had planned from the start included season 4, of which the ending was atrocious.
I'm absolutely fine that it was cancelled.
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It'll be annoying if they can't finish the story they've had planned since the start.
Why? What they had planned from the start included season 4, of which the ending was atrocious.
I'm absolutely fine that it was cancelled.
I read on Reddit yesterday that the season 4 finale was modified halfway through production in the event that this cancellation actually happened. I guess the original ending would have been a lot worse without a fifth season.
I have no idea if that's true or not.
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It'll be annoying if they can't finish the story they've had planned since the start.
Why? What they had planned from the start included season 4, of which the ending was atrocious.
I'm absolutely fine that it was cancelled.
I read on Reddit yesterday that the season 4 finale was modified halfway through production in the event that this cancellation actually happened. I guess the original ending would have been a lot worse without a fifth season.
I have no idea if that's true or not.
I'm not sure how much worse it could have been, or how it can move forward. All of the people are dead, and all of the hosts are dead.
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As someone who bounced on this show after season 2.... yeah, makes sense this didn't make it.
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Watched the full fourth season.
Well, it was good, but the magic was gone. It was not bad, but knowing it was the end and probably we wouldn't get any satisfying ending I just went along for the ride. This is the equivalent of a band past her prime putting out an ok album. You don't dislike it, you can't find songs to point out as really bad, but in the end, the album comes and goes and you just forget about it. I watched it to complete the story, but as I previously said, nothing will ever come remotely close to season 1.
Also, enough with the cliches, for example when Clementine was fighting off Caleb and her daughter, they used TWICE the trope of the intervention (first from Caleb and then from the daughter) at the last possible second before Clementine was about to kill her (and him later). Along with the perfect line before shooting. Boooooooring.
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Well, it was good, but the magic was gone. It was not bad, but knowing it was the end and probably we wouldn't get any satisfying ending I just went along for the ride. This is the equivalent of a band past her prime putting out an ok album. You don't dislike it, you can't find songs to point out as really bad, but in the end, the album comes and goes and you just forget about it. I watched it to complete the story, but as I previously said, nothing will ever come remotely close to season 1.
Agreed....said something similar about the season as a whole as well. Fun ride but it's definitely time to get off of it.
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The problem they ran into I feel in the end was they constantly wanted this big giant reveal of how everything was not what it seemed like. Which just made everything so fucking confusing for the sake of being confusing. Season 4 was really good until the end when they again just had to pull this rug of lets make it more of everything is fake and I knew it all along but couldn't remember type of bullshit trope.
All that being said I strangely still enjoyed the show overall. Was also the first show I ever got on 4k Bluray. Will get the final season to complete the set.
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The problem they ran into I feel in the end was they constantly wanted this big giant reveal of how everything was not what it seemed like. Which just made everything so fucking confusing for the sake of being confusing. Season 4 was really good until the end when they again just had to pull this rug of lets make it more of everything is fake and I knew it all along but couldn't remember type of bullshit trope.
All that being said I strangely still enjoyed the show overall. Was also the first show I ever got on 4k Bluray. Will get the final season to complete the set.
Yep. I said it earlier in the thread.....they tried too hard to be too clever. Sometimes it's "OK" to let something just be what it is. Not every storyline has to be a 180 surprise reveal or some false flag.
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I felt they started to do that in Season 2.
Whose a host, whose not? Will they die?..is there a Host civil war? What is reality, what is a dream?
It became a bit too self-indulgent, much like Lost was, and of course JJ Abrams also produced this show.