DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site

Dream Theater => Concerts and Set Lists => Topic started by: romanticrocker on April 24, 2016, 08:02:32 AM

Title: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: romanticrocker on April 24, 2016, 08:02:32 AM
What's your biggest complaint or complaints about this tour for me

Over hyped when I read articles I thought it was going to be a huge production like the wall  :justjen maybe I mis read it although still enjoyed it and would recommend it to everyone

No DVD how can they not have a live DVD and cd of this wonder if they regret doing the last live DVD imagine how awesome this would of been with the Berkeley choir and orchestra

No flute solo for the astonishing I would of loved jl to do a flute solo during the astonishing that would of been an epic ending
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: JustJen on April 24, 2016, 08:22:17 AM
The album being done in it's entirety instead of a 3 hour "Evening With" format that had two sets, one of new stuff and one of old stuff.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Enigmachine on April 24, 2016, 08:25:18 AM
What's your biggest complaint or complaints about this tour for me

Over hyped when I read articles I thought it was going to be a huge production like the wall  :justjen maybe I mis read it although still enjoyed it and would recommend it to everyone

No DVD how can they not have a live DVD and cd of this wonder if they regret doing the last live DVD imagine how awesome this would of been with the Berkeley choir and orchestra

Pretty much these two. Other than that, I don't have any real complaints.

The album being done in it's entirety instead of a 3 hour "Evening With" format that had two sets, one of new stuff and one of old stuff.

Maybe the second leg should be this.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: YtseJam on April 24, 2016, 08:30:34 AM
I hate to even comment because I feel like all I have done is complain but I am appreciative of this work and seeing them again. The whole lack of energy and crowd interaction was the biggest let down for me this tour. While the album did not deliver what I was expecting, it is a beautiful album musically and emotionally. I am probably the only person who still has not read the lyrics because I couldn't care less about interpreting the story-line. To me it is all about the emotion and how it makes me feel, I can figure out the story one day if I'm really bored (meaning stuck in a hospital or something). I lost my dog to cancer and it was brutal for me and it all happened right when I got this album so a lot of the emotion bleeds through for me and makes me think about my best bud who was with me for 12 years strong.  :'( The band was tight and sounded great but man, where's the energy in the live performance? After seeing them so many times over the years and having a blast every time  :metal , I felt like they didn't want to be there which bothered me.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: DragonAttack on April 24, 2016, 10:20:54 AM
Last night was the first time I read through the lyrics.  We're going to the show tonight, so my wife and I listened to TA in three segments yesterday.  I agree about the beautiful music, the meh story line, and different approach to viewing this concert.

[Became a fan in '03, so this was my first DT album without my 'buddy' of 12 years.  We shared more than a few loud listens together when I'd have the house to myself for an evening, so I totally get where your coming from.]
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: JiM-Xtreme on April 24, 2016, 11:34:20 AM
The only slight gripe I had is that the video screens don't always manage to convey which character is speaking, which isn't great for those who aren't already familiar with the lyrics/story. This is most noticeable  for me in A New Beginning, which as I recall had hardly anything going on in the background - a bit disappointing for one of the best songs on the album and one that switches perspective so many times.

Although they do manage to convey this well in certain songs like Savior in the Square and importantly, in The Path That Divides.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: romanticrocker on April 24, 2016, 11:55:59 AM
The album being done in it's entirety instead of a 3 hour "Evening With" format that had two sets, one of new stuff and one of old stuff.

That was a complaint of mine to but after the concert I didn't mind it since i loved the album live and glad they played the whole thing
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: ReaperKK on April 24, 2016, 01:39:30 PM
My complaint is that they didn't come to Florida.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: SwedishGoose on April 24, 2016, 01:52:55 PM
The only complaint I have is that they only played two shows in Stockholm and that they have not booked a second leg through europe hitting Stockholm again....
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on April 24, 2016, 03:03:14 PM
Pretending that the concert is over after Our New World, then walking off stage for 10 seconds only to return and play the rest of the album was really, really silly.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: countoftuscany42 on April 24, 2016, 03:22:55 PM
No DVD how can they not have a live DVD and cd of this wonder if they regret doing the last live DVD imagine how awesome this would of been with the Berkeley choir and orchestra

says who? it's not like the tour is done, there are more legs some of which probably aren't even announced yet...
I'd be amazed if there isn't some sort of dvd for this tour, it's a show that needs to be documented
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: YtseJam on April 24, 2016, 04:12:04 PM
Last night was the first time I read through the lyrics.  We're going to the show tonight, so my wife and I listened to TA in three segments yesterday.  I agree about the beautiful music, the meh story line, and different approach to viewing this concert.

[Became a fan in '03, so this was my first DT album without my 'buddy' of 12 years.  We shared more than a few loud listens together when I'd have the house to myself for an evening, so I totally get where your coming from.]

 :tup

Pretending that the concert is over after Our New World, then walking off stage for 10 seconds only to return and play the rest of the album was really, really silly.

LMAO -Agreed. This was a great opportunity to spank everyone with something epic
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: pantsofeternity on April 24, 2016, 05:24:29 PM
The band was tight and sounded great but man, where's the energy in the live performance? After seeing them so many times over the years and having a blast every time  :metal , I felt like they didn't want to be there which bothered me.
I felt there was some weird energy, but to me it seemed like it was the crowd (not as a whole) who weren't into it.  I thought the band gave it everything.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: El Barto on April 24, 2016, 06:07:37 PM
Pretending that the concert is over after Our New World, then walking off stage for 10 seconds only to return and play the rest of the album was really, really silly.
Surprised you went to the show. You probably are, as well.  :lol

I understand not wanting to do an encore, but I think it's silly. R40 was a highly themed show, and they had no problem firing the lights back up and playing Working Man after the encore. Queensrychye played encores after O:M tours and they were far more theatrical. It occurs to me that the smooth move would have been to write an epilogue specifically for the tour and encore that. You could play a themed song and it would be a bonus for the people who went to the show. Similar but superior to Outside The Wall, I think.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on April 24, 2016, 06:34:16 PM
Surprised you went to the show. You probably are, as well.  :lol

I mostly went out of tradition. The concerts aren't really all that expensive, and I have seen them for over 20 years every year now. Can't break the streak!

Quote
I understand not wanting to do an encore, but I think it's silly. R40 was a highly themed show, and they had no problem firing the lights back up and playing Working Man after the encore. Queensrychye played encores after O:M tours and they were far more theatrical. It occurs to me that the smooth move would have been to write an epilogue specifically for the tour and encore that. You could play a themed song and it would be a bonus for the people who went to the show. Similar but superior to Outside The Wall, I think.

So many missed opportunities anyway. Like, why not hang two or three NOMACs from the ceiling?
The whole concert fell very flat for me. So much backing tracks going on, and the videos didn't really enhance things all that much either. For this momentous experience it was supposed to be, it felt like a scripted rock concert tbh.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: JoeMLennon on April 24, 2016, 06:45:25 PM
I hate to even comment because I feel like all I have done is complain but I am appreciative of this work and seeing them again. The whole lack of energy and crowd interaction was the biggest let down for me this tour. While the album did not deliver what I was expecting, it is a beautiful album musically and emotionally. I am probably the only person who still has not read the lyrics because I couldn't care less about interpreting the story-line. To me it is all about the emotion and how it makes me feel, I can figure out the story one day if I'm really bored (meaning stuck in a hospital or something). I lost my dog to cancer and it was brutal for me and it all happened right when I got this album so a lot of the emotion bleeds through for me and makes me think about my best bud who was with me for 12 years strong.  :'( The band was tight and sounded great but man, where's the energy in the live performance? After seeing them so many times over the years and having a blast every time  :metal , I felt like they didn't want to be there which bothered me.

Agree.  Since the whole thing is scripted it lacked an ad lib moments.  Also since so many ballads, never really got the crowd into it except for a couple of Petrucci solos. Instead of building and gettting a reacation even after people started to get into it (like after the first few songs) as the transitional songs sucked the excitement outof the room.  It made me miss just seeing them play a string of great songs all in a row, like at past concerts, which also would keep the energy level higher for the crowd.    The second act is so short compared to the first, they could break out a few classics for  the encore so people can leave with energy high.  All the transitional stuff makes the whole vibe of the show too restrained I think.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: El Barto on April 24, 2016, 07:07:59 PM
The whole concert fell very flat for me. So much backing tracks going on, and the videos didn't really enhance things all that much either. For this momentous experience it was supposed to be, it felt like a scripted rock concert tbh.
Yeah, I mentioned the backing tracks in the RCMH thread. I understand the necessity and won't generally fault a band for requiring them, but there were time I thought it was something of a cheat.

Hanging NOMACs from the ceiling only would have worked if they'd been really well crafted. What they might have done with their budget could very well have been cheesy as hell.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: countoftuscany42 on April 24, 2016, 09:13:57 PM
R40 was a highly themed show, and they had no problem firing the lights back up and playing Working Man after the encore.
That also fit into the theme of R40 since they were going reverse chronologically, Working Man was part of the encore and they weren't telling a story. While I would have enjoyed an encore because more DT is always better, I understand why they didn't do an encore and have no problem with that choice. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on April 24, 2016, 09:18:41 PM
Well, they *did* have that thing in the lobby that would take pictures of you. I really feel instead of that thing (which looked nothing like anything of the other artwork), they could have had at least one decent NOMAC.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: El Barto on April 24, 2016, 09:41:47 PM
R40 was a highly themed show, and they had no problem firing the lights back up and playing Working Man after the encore.
That also fit into the theme of R40 since they were going reverse chronologically, Working Man was part of the encore and they weren't telling a story. While I would have enjoyed an encore because more DT is always better, I understand why they didn't do an encore and have no problem with that choice.
R40 was absolutely telling a story, and ending with them as teenagers in a high school gymnasium where they began would have been the appropriate ending. Working Man was simply them giving the fans a proper encore, in contrast to the preceding 2 hours.  And I certainly understand why Dream Theater didn't include an encore, I think there were better options at their disposal to accommodate both concerns.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: DragonAttack on April 24, 2016, 09:50:49 PM
I'm home after the Balto show.....and my complaint is that I've complained too much about too many things.  The weaker tracks sounded better, the good tracks great, and the great tracks were.....well, astonishing. 

Loved being able to focus on MM and see all of his 'theatrics', JM's fingers are all over the place when one may think his bass was kind of 'just there', Jordan and John were superb, and JLB just really killed it (in spite of 'spitting into his mouth' during a line....his words, not mine). 

The album art...meh.  The lighting:  thumbs up.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: red barchetta on April 24, 2016, 09:58:17 PM
I hate to even comment because I feel like all I have done is complain but I am appreciative of this work and seeing them again. The whole lack of energy and crowd interaction was the biggest let down for me this tour. While the album did not deliver what I was expecting, it is a beautiful album musically and emotionally. I am probably the only person who still has not read the lyrics because I couldn't care less about interpreting the story-line. To me it is all about the emotion and how it makes me feel, I can figure out the story one day if I'm really bored (meaning stuck in a hospital or something). I lost my dog to cancer and it was brutal for me and it all happened right when I got this album so a lot of the emotion bleeds through for me and makes me think about my best bud who was with me for 12 years strong.  :'( The band was tight and sounded great but man, where's the energy in the live performance? After seeing them so many times over the years and having a blast every time  :metal , I felt like they didn't want to be there which bothered me.

The guys I know who went to the show told me the exact same thing about the crowd and the band energy. A bored ambiance.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: countoftuscany42 on April 24, 2016, 10:15:05 PM
R40 was a highly themed show, and they had no problem firing the lights back up and playing Working Man after the encore.
That also fit into the theme of R40 since they were going reverse chronologically, Working Man was part of the encore and they weren't telling a story. While I would have enjoyed an encore because more DT is always better, I understand why they didn't do an encore and have no problem with that choice.
R40 was absolutely telling a story, and ending with them as teenagers in a high school gymnasium where they began would have been the appropriate ending. Working Man was simply them giving the fans a proper encore, in contrast to the preceding 2 hours.  And I certainly understand why Dream Theater didn't include an encore, I think there were better options at their disposal to accommodate both concerns.
but it's not a scripted story with a plot, its just their history.  i get what you're saying but there's a clear distinction.  and i don't think Working Man as an encore is any different than the rest of the show's progression, seeing as they ended with the first album. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Darkstarshades on April 24, 2016, 10:21:36 PM
Actually I wouldn't mind at all hearing Octavarium as encore.

I wouldn't have The Glass Prison as encore as it kind of kills off the ambience with its balls to the wall shit, but Octavarium seems just fine.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: El Barto on April 24, 2016, 10:45:24 PM
R40 was a highly themed show, and they had no problem firing the lights back up and playing Working Man after the encore.
That also fit into the theme of R40 since they were going reverse chronologically, Working Man was part of the encore and they weren't telling a story. While I would have enjoyed an encore because more DT is always better, I understand why they didn't do an encore and have no problem with that choice.
R40 was absolutely telling a story, and ending with them as teenagers in a high school gymnasium where they began would have been the appropriate ending. Working Man was simply them giving the fans a proper encore, in contrast to the preceding 2 hours.  And I certainly understand why Dream Theater didn't include an encore, I think there were better options at their disposal to accommodate both concerns.
but it's not a scripted story with a plot, its just their history.  i get what you're saying but there's a clear distinction.  and i don't think Working Man as an encore is any different than the rest of the show's progression, seeing as they ended with the first album.
It's a story nonetheless, though. And in fact, I might say that an encore was even more inappropirate for Rush. With DT they told their story and that was that. Playing something else would just be an extra bit unrelated to the story. With Rush's chronological regression, they'd boxed themselves in. I think it's more innately constrained than a fictional narrative.  And while it is from the first album, the presentation went all the way (back?) from primitive to modern in a sudden burst of retro-regression, so it was clearly an encore in spirit. 

And to be clear, I'm not suggesting they come out and play PMU after the thing ends. That would be completely inappropriate. I do think there are ways they could have handled it better, though.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: JustJen on April 25, 2016, 05:05:37 AM

Maybe the second leg should be this.

That's my hope and what I"m holding out for and the reason I didn't drive to Albany, Philly, and/or NYC. If they do a second leg and split it up like that and ensure that nothing off the most recent 3 or 4 albums will be played during it, I'd go to at least one if not all three. But the past 3 tours were full of all new stuff and as a result I'm really missing the old stuff more and more at their shows. The withdrawal is coming to a point where it's either time to feed it what it needs, or let the addiction go completely, which I really don't want to do. But it's in their hands.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: JustJen on April 25, 2016, 05:10:03 AM
The album being done in it's entirety instead of a 3 hour "Evening With" format that had two sets, one of new stuff and one of old stuff.

That was a complaint of mine to but after the concert I didn't mind it since i loved the album live and glad they played the whole thing

That's how I felt about Steven Wilson's Hand. Cannot. Erase. the first leg of his last tour - I saw it three times in fact, even though it was just that one album with 2-3 other songs added in. Then of course I also saw his most recent second leg where I got.. well like 1 or 2 more songs. But I love SW so it was worth it.

In this particular case, I'm not a fan of the new album or the most recent few albums so I simply chose not to go and see it live. But I would be so very pleased to get to see a second leg that featured stuff from SDOIT through BCASL in the second half. I've already seen a nostalgia showcase of older songs when I saw Score ten years ago, and we got a lot of older stuff last time on their last tour as well, but they've been letting SDOIT through BCASL sit and age the past couple/few tours. I would like to see them bring it back out, as those are my favorite albums (I realize I"m in the minority here, which is fine. I'm also a girl on a DT board so it is what it is).
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: JustJen on April 25, 2016, 05:14:47 AM
Actually I wouldn't mind at all hearing Octavarium as encore.

I wouldn't have The Glass Prison as encore as it kind of kills off the ambience with its balls to the wall shit, but Octavarium seems just fine.

I would also be happy to hear Octavarium live again but that's a helluva long encore. :lol Of course I don't know about all shows but I do know RCMH has a ridiculously strict curfew and an astonishingly high fine for going over so at that show at least they couldn't really afford to waste time on improvisasion, audience chitchat, or extra encores even if they wanted to.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: The Curious Orange on April 25, 2016, 05:29:40 AM
No "complaints" about the tour, but I still maintain playing the whole album was a mistake.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on April 25, 2016, 05:45:33 AM
I really love this album, and the live performance of it was great, but I feel like something was missing the whole time. There's a level of excitement that wasn't being achieved outside of the extended guitar solo in A New Beginning.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: The Curious Orange on April 25, 2016, 07:40:53 AM
I really love this album, and the live performance of it was great, but I feel like something was missing the whole time. There's a level of excitement that wasn't being achieved outside of the extended guitar solo in A New Beginning.

It's because they're playing to a click track. Robs the show of any sponteneity.
Ah for the good old days when they'd burst into an improv jam at the drop of a tambourine...
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: CB on April 25, 2016, 03:19:50 PM
Biggest complaint? In Hannover the beer was sold out 20 minutes before the show started ::)

Seriously, I don't have a really BIG complaint about the tour but for me there was too much prerecorded stuff. I just don't think they need that to present a great show. I'm probably in the minority but I don't mind if a live concert sounds different from the album, I actually think it's more interesting if it does.
At the TA shows I could distinguish JLBs real vocals rather well (for me his live voice always sounds different compared to his album vocals) but with JR it was tough. Sometimes I needed my opera glasses (I'm probably the only person using opera glasses at a DT show) to see what he was doing live.
I'd love to visit a DT show one day with no click tracks and no prerecorded material at all (will probably never happen...)
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on April 25, 2016, 07:57:26 PM
The guys I know who went to the show told me the exact same thing about the crowd and the band energy. A bored ambiance.

Same for Boston, IMHO. I wondered whether the extreme scriptedness of the performance had rubbed off on them. I think even the breaks between songs were predetermined by click. There was one song in particular where you could tell they were all listening to the count-in click.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Adami on April 25, 2016, 08:15:26 PM
I'm not defending DT using a click, but as someone who has used a click a lot in the past, it's very possible to play a show to a click and still have lots of energy and put on a great show.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 26, 2016, 07:31:50 AM
I'm not defending DT using a click, but as someone who has used a click a lot in the past, it's very possible to play a show to a click and still have lots of energy and put on a great show.

Yeah this. Click track does not equal low energy.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on April 26, 2016, 08:13:54 AM
I'm not defending DT using a click, but as someone who has used a click a lot in the past, it's very possible to play a show to a click and still have lots of energy and put on a great show.

Yeah this. Click track does not equal low energy.

I thought the last tour for the DT album had plenty of energy and that show was to a click track.  I think the "boringness" of this tour has EVERYTHING to do with the theatrical presentation.  I very much enjoyed the concert, but it felt more like a theatrical show than a concert.  The ushers played too big of a role, people sitting for most of the show, the album is great but has a lot of soft songs so the pacing of the show isn't the best, no real crowd engagement from the band... I hope this is it after this string of shows announced already.  I look forward to being able to see some of TA songs in a proper rock concert setting.  The show at RCMH didn't get that rock concert feel until the very end when people stood up and starting singing along to the Hymn.

Pretending that the concert is over after Our New World, then walking off stage for 10 seconds only to return and play the rest of the album was really, really silly.

Not IMO, it worked for me given the context of the show.  I think it would have best to do a legit encore, maybe one old song because the place was salivating for one more awesome DT song.  But knowing they weren't going to, what they did do was the best option because otherwise ending the show without an encore would leave people wondering wtf
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on April 26, 2016, 08:22:42 AM
I don't really have any complaints. I don't mind that they did the whole album. It was a necessity for the purpose of the story to do this for at least one tour. They probably won't ever play it in full again, unless they do a one-off kind of thing.

Oh, I guess if I were to really find something to complain about it would be the sound from my perspective. JP and James were really low in the mix from where I was sitting. I'm surprised because I sat in almost the same place as the last Radio City show and the sound was perfect then. I think this time around the keyboards drowned everything out.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Tick on April 26, 2016, 08:41:03 AM
My only complaint is not getting extra material. I would have been happy with a couple extra songs after the album. I know what they were doing but its about the fans too. They bought into going to the prog Broadway style show. A couple extra tracks wouldn't have killed them. Besides that I had no problem with any other aspect of the performance. I found it amazing.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Logain Ablar on April 26, 2016, 08:47:39 AM
Pretending that the concert is over after Our New World, then walking off stage for 10 seconds only to return and play the rest of the album was really, really silly.

Not IMO, it worked for me given the context of the show.  I think it would have best to do a legit encore, maybe one old song because the place was salivating for one more awesome DT song.  But knowing they weren't going to, what they did do was the best option because otherwise ending the show without an encore would leave people wondering wtf

This is exactly what happened at the London Palladium on the first night. I knew there wouldn't be an encore, so I knew what to expect, but at the end of the show when they walked off, there were chants for an encore and a couple of half-hearted boos when it didn't happen. Then a few puzzled faces, and people turning to each other saying "Is that it?". A lot of folks just didn't realise that was the way it was planned.

I think they started doing this improvised "encore" right after that first show.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Rickharris1011 on April 26, 2016, 12:26:15 PM
First - I had an awesome time at the show and so many fantastic things. Absolutely recommend it to anyone. Onto the thread

Biggest complaint? - the ushers at the Orpheum in Boston.  Definitely. 
Second biggest (but not that big) - I think they should tour with a live violinist.  There were 2 or 3 times in the show where it was borderline cheesy having such a prominent instrument canned. 
Particularly in Hymn of 10,000 voices.

As for the energy comments - the bands energy was really strong in Boston. Man does MM hit the drums hard.
Crowd energy was what I expected - they played only new material.  No old standards to bring out to really rev up the crowd. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on April 26, 2016, 12:32:47 PM

Second biggest (but not that big) - I think they should tour with a live violinist.  There were 2 or 3 times in the show where it was borderline cheesy having such a prominent instrument canned. 
Particularly in Hymn of 10,000 voices.


They wouldn't even need to tour with one. They could just get a guest violinist from every city they're touring in. When you see the Trans Siberian Orchestra, only the band goes on tour. The orchestra is from the area. If you see them in CT, the Hartford Symphony Orchestra is on stage with the band.   
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: pantsofeternity on April 26, 2016, 02:32:30 PM

Second biggest (but not that big) - I think they should tour with a live violinist.  There were 2 or 3 times in the show where it was borderline cheesy having such a prominent instrument canned. 
Particularly in Hymn of 10,000 voices.


They wouldn't even need to tour with one. They could just get a guest violinist from every city they're touring in. When you see the Trans Siberian Orchestra, only the band goes on tour. The orchestra is from the area. If you see them in CT, the Hartford Symphony Orchestra is on stage with the band.   
Yeah I was a little bummed they didn't try to do this, at least with the violinist, even in NYC.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Dream Team on April 26, 2016, 06:32:44 PM
Not really a complaint per se, but I really hope next album and tour is raw with all real instruments and vocals, no backing tracks.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on April 28, 2016, 07:09:54 AM
Not really a complaint per se, but I really hope next album and tour is raw with all real instruments and vocals, no backing tracks.

I think a lot of people would like to see that, but somehow I get the impression they are here to stay.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: JustJen on April 28, 2016, 07:14:56 AM
Not really a complaint per se, but I really hope next album and tour is raw with all real instruments and vocals, no backing tracks.

I think a lot of people would like to see that, but somehow I get the impression they are here to stay.

just gut instinct making you say that, or something more?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on April 28, 2016, 07:49:51 AM
Personally, I think it's a combination of two factors:
1) MM has no issues at all playing all songs with click, and having a click kinda invites having backing tracks
2) (maybe more controversially) backing tracks are a good way of smoothing out rough performances. During the Boston show James was mightily struggling with the high notes, but the vocal backing track smoothed out a lot of that. I think a lot of people who proclaim "James was perfect tonight!" don't realize that 50% of the "on-ness" was due to the backing track.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: JustJen on April 28, 2016, 08:07:16 AM
Honest question - what's the difference between a backing tack and what Milli Vanilli did (I don't mean the fact that MV faked everything, I mean the fact they played the song exactly as released in the background)? If you listen to a backing track, what does it sound like? Is it only part of the sound, or is it just.. playing the album?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Adami on April 28, 2016, 08:19:20 AM
Honest question - what's the difference between a backing tack and what Milli Vanilli did (I don't mean the fact that MV faked everything, I mean the fact they played the song exactly as released in the background)? If you listen to a backing track, what does it sound like? Is it only part of the sound, or is it just.. playing the album?

In the case of DT, it's part of the album being played in the background. It's strings or sounds that otherwise can't be played live currently. It's also lots of vocal parts. Usually co-leads or harmonies.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 28, 2016, 08:19:49 AM
Honest question - what's the difference between a backing tack and what Milli Vanilli did (I don't mean the fact that MV faked everything, I mean the fact they played the song exactly as released in the background)? If you listen to a backing track, what does it sound like? Is it only part of the sound, or is it just.. playing the album?

It depends on what the artist is playing on a backing track. MV for example was faking everything. DT is just filling in orchestra or choir sounds from the album and occasional harmony vocals, that's it. Rumborak is greatly exaggerating to say that 50% of JLB's "on-ness" was due to tracks.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Logain Ablar on April 28, 2016, 08:30:23 AM
I imagine if you listened to the backing track on its own, you'd have large periods of silence, with the various bits and pieces coming in as they do on the album tracks.

I think I'm ok with this approach as long as it doesn't go too far. Some say that playing exactly in time to the album tempo can lose part of the live vibe, where there's more ebb and flow to the tempo of the songs, as you're not playing to a strict beat.

The thing I noticed from the BTFW Blu-Ray was that the SAFM songs seemed slower to me on first listen. It realised it was just because they were playing along with the backing track to cue in the various extra elements. It was exactly the same tempo as the album, but because you are used to hearing other live versions of those songs, it sounded a bit weird at first.

The other thing is that if they are playing the songs at the same tempo every night, and recording all the shows, then it makes it easier if they ever release a "live" album to put together performances from all those recorded shows. So, taking the best takes, and getting rid of mistakes etc.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Stadler on April 28, 2016, 08:53:53 AM
I was listening to Slash on Howard Stern yesterday, and Howard played a couple of the classic G'n'R songs to get Slash's reaction, and he played "Paradise City", and Slash's comment was "Fuck! That is so SLOW!"   Howard asked him, and Slash said "well, we play that a lot, and because of the adrenaline, we play it a lot faster live".  Howard then asked him if he thought the studio version was thus too slow, and Slash said "No, it was just right for record, but live is a different animal".   

For what it's worth.

I get the idea of a click, but there's something to be said for the dynamic of a live recording, and the "breathing" of a song live.  That was - in my humble, not-as-informed-as-I-should-be-on-this opinion - a big part of the magic of Led Zeppelin.  Would Stairway be the song it is now if Bonham was in perfect meter from start to finish on the song? 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: JustJen on April 28, 2016, 09:23:34 AM
thanks everyone, that helps me understand it more. I saw John Wesley playing live alone and he had all kinds of sounds triggered by his foot pedals because he couldn't DO his songs alone. It didn't bug me. I'd have to hear DT on this tour to know if this would bug me but I missed my chance already. Hoping for a second leg. DIdn't realize until after I opted out of this leg that I've never missed a DT tour since I became a fan, until now.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on April 28, 2016, 10:12:26 AM
None of the backing tracks bugged me this tour, but I certainly am a fan of sort of what Stadler and Slash were saying, let the live music flow naturally.  I think it's great when a band can sort of play off the crowd and if the crowd is going nuts then the tempo gets a little faster.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Mebert78 on April 28, 2016, 10:41:27 AM
I caught the Upper Darby show last weekend and I found myself enjoying parts of it, but it left me wanting a little more overall.  First, the separated screens is not so much my thing.  I find myself trying to piece together the graphics through the gaps between the screens, especially when they're showing character's faces.  Other parts, like when they displayed trees or a moon on the screens, I felt like it worked better.  But, to me, one giant screen like the last tour would've been the way to go.  Since this was a musical, I also felt like physical props would've been a nice touch.  Like, they could've physically transformed the stage into Heaven's Cove or other settings and JLB could've walked around and atop the props as he delivered his lines in theatrical fashion -- like an actual musical.   

Also, I found the story hard to follow live.  It's been a couple months since I'd listened to The Astonishing because I've been hooked on the new Redemption album, so I didn't really recall the intricacies of the storyline.  That left me relying on JLB's lyrics and the animations to refresh my memory, but unfortunately I found JLB hard to understand in many cases and the animations did not further the story as much as I had hoped.  If I were someone who had never heard the album, I probably would've been totally lost.

Lastly, the band was spot on but JLB did not really deliver his vocals with a passion like was needed for this type of performance, in my opinion.  I felt like he was strolling around the stage and acting very casual, but since this is a musical I was hoping for a little more acting and fire in his movements and delivery.  Instead, he performed like it was a regular concert with a t-shirt and ripped jeans. 

I know this sounds critical, but it's only because I expect the best from DT.  I'm still proud of their effort and ambition.  Long live, DT. :)
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on April 28, 2016, 11:03:06 AM
Also, I found the story hard to follow live.

This part I found particularly striking. TA was, I guess, supposed to be a theater experience. But, as you say, the screens and animation did not help understanding, and there were no programs either that would have explained the story like they do in actual operas. So, the performance was kinda a regular rock concert, with a few theatric elements thrown in.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 28, 2016, 11:16:07 AM
Eh, Isn't all that solved by just reading the story on the website? I did that once right when the album came out, and I can follow it fine...

I do agree that printing the story from the site and including it in the tour programs would be a good idea though.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Stadler on April 28, 2016, 12:57:51 PM
Also, I found the story hard to follow live.

This part I found particularly striking. TA was, I guess, supposed to be a theater experience. But, as you say, the screens and animation did not help understanding, and there were no programs either that would have explained the story like they do in actual operas. So, the performance was kinda a regular rock concert, with a few theatric elements thrown in.

I don't have many big complaints - I understood and accepted what it was intended to be going in - but if I was to put anything into words, it would be closest to this:   It's sort of a hybrid between a rock show and a theater show, but it sort of has the WORST (not the BEST) of both.    I would have preferred a little more of the "best" of both; put out a libretto (it could be printed paper like at a play); connect the names to the faces; connect the names/faces to the places on the map; provide a little more structure to allow the story to be pieced together in real time. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on April 28, 2016, 01:18:48 PM
I think that would have been great. I was surprised that they didn't give out something like that, especially considering they wanted the shows played at theater type venues.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on April 28, 2016, 03:05:12 PM
Eh, Isn't all that solved by just reading the story on the website? I did that once right when the album came out, and I can follow it fine...

I do agree that printing the story from the site and including it in the tour programs would be a good idea though.

My brother went to see them in Germany, and there people got a program. No idea why they stopped handing them out.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on April 28, 2016, 03:12:06 PM
Check the Pic thread or the camera thread for my post, I am holding the program and saved mine (although it got a bit beat up that evening). 

The program had all the track lists and characters, but referenced the website for the story.  So the program alone still would not help understand the story but maybe help a little. (and given the camera rule, there is no way you'd be able to pull out your phone to try and follow the story during the show)

I actually had thought when they announced it all that they video to go along with the performance would be much more like a cartoon to show what's going on in the story, but the reality is that it only did that on a few occasions. Those spots were probably my favorite of the stage show.

So basically, if you had not read the lyrics or the website before the show, but only followed the performance and video on the screen.... you'd likely have no idea what's going on.  I think that is a legit complaint and as much as I enjoyed the show, I do think Stadler had a point in that they really ended up getting the worst of both the concert and theater worlds with this show. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: ResultsMayVary on April 28, 2016, 03:35:50 PM
Eh, Isn't all that solved by just reading the story on the website? I did that once right when the album came out, and I can follow it fine...

I do agree that printing the story from the site and including it in the tour programs would be a good idea though.

My brother went to see them in Germany, and there people got a program. No idea why they stopped handing them out.
DT was selling tour programs for $20 last night in Cincinnati. I didn't buy one, but I wonder if it's the same program.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on April 28, 2016, 03:37:14 PM
Eh, Isn't all that solved by just reading the story on the website? I did that once right when the album came out, and I can follow it fine...

I do agree that printing the story from the site and including it in the tour programs would be a good idea though.

My brother went to see them in Germany, and there people got a program. No idea why they stopped handing them out.
DT was selling tour programs for $20 last night in Cincinnati. I didn't buy one, but I wonder if it's the same program.

For 20 bucks he must have gotten something different as my program was free, handed out when you entered the venue.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: SwedishGoose on April 28, 2016, 03:48:48 PM
In Stockholm there were free pamphlet type programs that gave a bit of a background and the offical programs sold in the merch stand that were high quality with one side ravenskill and one side empire. You have to turn it around to get the other view.
Some really nice photos in there too...

Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on April 28, 2016, 03:51:28 PM
Eh, Isn't all that solved by just reading the story on the website? I did that once right when the album came out, and I can follow it fine...

I do agree that printing the story from the site and including it in the tour programs would be a good idea though.

My brother went to see them in Germany, and there people got a program. No idea why they stopped handing them out.
DT was selling tour programs for $20 last night in Cincinnati. I didn't buy one, but I wonder if it's the same program.

For 20 bucks he must have gotten something different as my program was free, handed out when you entered the venue.

Oh, that's right. We did get something. I forgot about that. Now, where did I put it...
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 29, 2016, 08:16:28 AM
Yea, like others have said, there was a free program but it wouldn't have given you too much if you had no clue about the story. I don't know if they were selling a more detailed program at the merch stand or not but the free one I got just had track listings and brief character descriptions.

What I meant was that it would have been cool to print up the whole track by track narrative from the website and have that printed in the program they handed out for free. I realize the production cost to make that would have been more but it would have been cool.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on April 29, 2016, 08:22:18 AM
Yea, like others have said, there was a free program but it wouldn't have given you too much if you had no clue about the story. I don't know if they were selling a more detailed program at the merch stand or not but the free one I got just had track listings and brief character descriptions.

What I meant was that it would have been cool to print up the whole track by track narrative from the website and have that printed in the program they handed out for free. I realize the production cost to make that would have been more but it would have been cool.

The write up on the website is like a short novel, would be too much and honestly it's a lot to read at the concert so I'm not sure there is a good way to do this practically other than have the video's be a bit more story driven than a mix of that with random animations.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Stadler on April 29, 2016, 08:24:11 AM
I don't recall one of those at the Wallingford, CT show....

Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 29, 2016, 08:48:31 AM
Yea, like others have said, there was a free program but it wouldn't have given you too much if you had no clue about the story. I don't know if they were selling a more detailed program at the merch stand or not but the free one I got just had track listings and brief character descriptions.

What I meant was that it would have been cool to print up the whole track by track narrative from the website and have that printed in the program they handed out for free. I realize the production cost to make that would have been more but it would have been cool.

The write up on the website is like a short novel, would be too much and honestly it's a lot to read at the concert so I'm not sure there is a good way to do this practically other than have the video's be a bit more story driven than a mix of that with random animations.

Oh I agree that the ideal way to better communicate the storyline is through the visuals on stage, I'm just not sure DTs production budget could handle that. That seems to me to be a bigger undertaking than the current visuals.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on April 29, 2016, 09:32:53 AM
I don't recall one of those at the Wallingford, CT show....

Definitely no such thing in Boston.

Oh I agree that the ideal way to better communicate the storyline is through the visuals on stage, I'm just not sure DTs production budget could handle that. That seems to me to be a bigger undertaking than the current visuals.

I don't get why a much smaller artist like Steven Wilson can then pull off a humongous screen on his concerts, with stunning, meaningful videos running on them.

I have to say it, but this is due to DT not caring more, not because they have no budget.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 29, 2016, 09:43:30 AM
I don't recall one of those at the Wallingford, CT show....

Definitely no such thing in Boston.

Oh I agree that the ideal way to better communicate the storyline is through the visuals on stage, I'm just not sure DTs production budget could handle that. That seems to me to be a bigger undertaking than the current visuals.

I don't get why a much smaller artist like Steven Wilson can then pull off a humongous screen on his concerts, with stunning, meaningful videos running on them.

I have to say it, but this is due to DT not caring more, not because they have no budget.

I've never seen Steven's live show, what exactly is so great about his visuals? I've seen the animated music video things he has, is it more like that?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on April 29, 2016, 09:49:51 AM
I don't recall one of those at the Wallingford, CT show....

I didn't see anything like that either :(
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on April 29, 2016, 09:56:28 AM
I've never seen Steven's live show, what exactly is so great about his visuals? I've seen the animated music video things he has, is it more like that?

It's nothing overly spectacular, it's just a huge-ass screen behind the band, and they show these beautiful topical videos in the back. E.g. since the last album is about a woman who died in the solitude of London, there's several videos of her being in lonely in the masses of London. The song about the relationship has her interacting with her "lover" in an artisticly shot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDtxJ1ygSCc) video. I don't know, it just puts you in the mood so much more than the narrow screens that DT has and the (sometimes rather hackish) videos they show on them.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: TheMadgician on April 29, 2016, 09:38:12 PM
Yea, like others have said, there was a free program but it wouldn't have given you too much if you had no clue about the story. I don't know if they were selling a more detailed program at the merch stand or not but the free one I got just had track listings and brief character descriptions.

What I meant was that it would have been cool to print up the whole track by track narrative from the website and have that printed in the program they handed out for free. I realize the production cost to make that would have been more but it would have been cool.

The program at the merch stand is kind of like that. It has bios of every character, a detailed story, a letter from each faction. And a whole bunch of live band photos, and information on all their albums. It's actually really cool.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: YtseJam on April 30, 2016, 06:40:41 AM
I don't recall one of those at the Wallingford, CT show....

I didn't see anything like that either :(

Me three
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on April 30, 2016, 10:52:27 AM
What's your biggest complaint or complaints about this tour for me

Over hyped when I read articles I thought it was going to be a huge production like the wall  :justjen maybe I mis read it although still enjoyed it and would recommend it to everyone

No DVD how can they not have a live DVD and cd of this wonder if they regret doing the last live DVD imagine how awesome this would of been with the Berkeley choir and orchestra

No flute solo for the astonishing I would of loved jl to do a flute solo during the astonishing that would of been an epic ending

1. DT are not Pink Floyd. They don't have the money to finance a Wall-like production.
2. Their stage production is their biggest yet, and they invested a lot of money, time and effort building it. I think it's pretty unfair to 'complain' about it.  :D
3. They haven't confirmed anything regarding a DVD yet, so that's still pending. Of course it would be awesome to have a full Astonishing live recording with live choir and orchestra, but:
a) For BTFW they learned only 1/3 of the set because it's A LOT of material and I can only imagine it's not cheap to hire them.
b) Recording a DVD requires a lot of work behind the screens, and they're pretty focused on the live experience these days.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: KevShmev on May 01, 2016, 10:12:35 AM
I've never seen Steven's live show, what exactly is so great about his visuals? I've seen the animated music video things he has, is it more like that?

It's nothing overly spectacular, it's just a huge-ass screen behind the band, and they show these beautiful topical videos in the back. E.g. since the last album is about a woman who died in the solitude of London, there's several videos of her being in lonely in the masses of London. The song about the relationship has her interacting with her "lover" in an artisticly shot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDtxJ1ygSCc) video. I don't know, it just puts you in the mood so much more than the narrow screens that DT has and the (sometimes rather hackish) videos they show on them.

I think it goes without saying, too, that SW views a video as another form of artistic expression, while DT kind of views theirs as a means to an end, almost like something they have to do to promote themselves, hence SW's always being great and DT's usually being not very good.

Regarding the original question asked in this thread, I am not seeing this tour, but based on what I have read, the lack of imagination with regards to what they show on the video screens seems to be one glaring error.  Many have said that if you have no idea what the story is about going on, you will still have no idea after seeing the concert; that is kind of strange.  And given that, I don't see the point in doing a DVD of this tour.  The performance won't come close to topping the album, and if the video screens do nothing to help the understanding of the story, what is the point?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Implode on May 01, 2016, 10:46:29 AM
Question: was sitting during pretty much the entire show intended by the band or just a freak thing that happened in Chicago? At first I felt really bad, but if that's what the band wanted, then it's fine.

I ask because even if it was intended by the band, I'd say it really lowered the amount of energy in the audience. I know the concert is supposed to feel more like an opera than usual, but the band members are still performing directly to the audience. And when there's a rocking part of a song, and they're rocking out to a still and reclined audience, it feels kind of one-sided and almost sad.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 01, 2016, 10:59:49 AM
Question: was sitting during pretty much the entire show intended by the band or just a freak thing that happened in Chicago? At first I felt really bad, but if that's what the band wanted, then it's fine.

I ask because even if it was intended by the band, I'd say it really lowered the amount of energy in the audience. I know the concert is supposed to feel more like an opera than usual, but the band members are still performing directly to the audience. And when there's a rocking part of a song, and they're rocking out to a still and reclined audience, it feels kind of one-sided and almost sad.

Budakon Is the same way. I remember them talking about it on the behind the scenes. I remember MP saying something about Japanese audiences, somewhere
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Implode on May 01, 2016, 11:06:44 AM
I know culturally that's a common thing in Japan. I just haven't had a concert experience like that in the US before, though I'll admit I haven't seen DT in a few years. This could be the norm, and I just forgot. :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 01, 2016, 11:10:57 AM
I know culturally that's a common thing in Japan. I just haven't had a concert experience like that in the US before, though I'll admit I haven't seen DT in a few years. This could be the norm, and I just forgot. :lol

The only time I had that experience was when Joe Satriani toured here for Unstoppable Momentum.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Implode on May 01, 2016, 11:32:18 AM
Near the end, JLB had to tell everyone to stand up, and he commented that everyone's butts had to feel numb by this point. I couldn't tell if he was a bit put off or if he was just joking.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: CB on May 01, 2016, 01:51:02 PM
Question: was sitting during pretty much the entire show intended by the band or just a freak thing that happened in Chicago? At first I felt really bad, but if that's what the band wanted, then it's fine.

I ask because even if it was intended by the band, I'd say it really lowered the amount of energy in the audience. I know the concert is supposed to feel more like an opera than usual, but the band members are still performing directly to the audience. And when there's a rocking part of a song, and they're rocking out to a still and reclined audience, it feels kind of one-sided and almost sad.


In the (3) shows I saw in Europe the audience was sitting during the entire show except ONW and TA. I don't know how it felt to the band but playing in the kind of theaters they chose, fully seated, it's what they had to expect. You don't stand up during an opera/musical/theater show, except the encore.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Cable on May 01, 2016, 05:16:30 PM
Probably already been said, but JP continuing to nuke the sonic spectrum with his MESAs. JM at this point will never be heard. I know bass will never be high in the mix. But geez. JMs bass went out at one point, and you couldn't tell. That said, JPs rhythm tone was so much better than prior tours. I didn't detect any delay and chorus like he was using on his rhythm tone before. Sounded full vs. thin.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on May 01, 2016, 10:08:38 PM
Well, it's an overall issue with their music really, that they're all in a continuous turf war. JP wants a thick, full-spectrum sound, and JR loves playing both hands. So, they're constantly encroaching on each other's sonic turf, with JM often being the loser of the battle. It also doesn't help that almost everybody plays at any given time. It is my theory that FII sounds so good because Kevin Shirley cut through the tracks with a machete, freeing up that sonic space the instruments needed. MP hated it because it cut away material, but it's what made it sound so good.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 01, 2016, 10:51:13 PM
Well, it's an overall issue with their music really, that they're all in a continuous turf war. JP wants a thick, full-spectrum sound, and JR loves playing both hands. So, they're constantly encroaching on each other's sonic turf, with JM often being the loser of the battle. It also doesn't help that almost everybody plays at any given time. It is my theory that FII sounds so good because Kevin Shirley cut through the tracks with a machete, freeing up that sonic space the instruments needed. MP hated it because it cut away material, but it's what made it sound so good.
I kinda get what you say, but I don't thing that the arrangement and song structure per se (which is the element that was changed the most in FII) had much to do with the album's mixing process. Now, that being said, I think that Shirely's producing helm enabled him to call some important shots in the mixing process like saying: Hey, during this part of the song we should let the keyboards breathe and have the vocals and the guitars come upfront. That's an approach that has been missing ever since SFAM (as much as people, including me, love the album). Everything sounds loud, proud and with arse & balls. Even the 'ballads'.

It's been mentioned a lot in the forum that DT have been in need of an outside producer for quite some time now, and although to some extent I agree I get why they don't want to; because they really don't need one. Their music is still being very well-received, and given the size and budget of a tour like 'The Astonishing' their also not suffering in the financial department, so even though there's a vocal minority like us that love to discuss every little gimmick they won't get any outsider anytime soon. Also, we're talking about a band that has a total of 13 studio albums and a shitload of extra material in their discography, from which only 4 of those albums were produced by someone not in the band. It wouldn't make sense for them to go back and look for a David Prater  :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: As I Am on May 01, 2016, 10:59:50 PM
I honestly don't have any complaint about the tour. Would I rather see a "catalog" show....of course, but this being presented as it was, actually came off very well. I'm not the biggest fan of the album, nor do I dislike it, but I found the show quite enjoyable.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 02, 2016, 07:46:03 AM
A few general thoughts from me:

- I don't have any complaints about the tour. Many of the problems that people seem to bring up, such as a slightly muddy mix, have been problems at virtually every concert I've ever attended.

- I really loved the visuals at the show I went to. The one weird thing is how each character only seems to have one picture that they keep using over and over in various situations. At one point, I think they show Faythe in a bed, and she's still wearing a hood? :lol

- There are financial limits to what DT can do, and I'm surprised that some people didn't know that. The idea that they would be able to do something like The Wall seems totally unrealistic to me, but then again, the band did mention The Wall specifically in some interviews when discussing their live show, so many that's on them. I dunno.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on May 02, 2016, 07:58:50 AM
My complaints have almost all been minor.  The visuals were mostly awesome if you ask me, my only complaint is they only told such minor parts of the story, I thought they could have done more to play out the story otherwise the visuals aren't any more different than what was used in the previous tour.

And the issue with sitting/no phones is more just annoying and takes away from the fun of a concert experience.  I'm all good with this on this scenario though because it seems that's just the way this album is presented.  This would only be a real problem if it ended up becoming the norm for DT. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: YtseJam on May 02, 2016, 04:27:56 PM
Regarding the original question asked in this thread, I am not seeing this tour, but based on what I have read, the lack of imagination with regards to what they show on the video screens seems to be one glaring error.  Many have said that if you have no idea what the story is about going on, you will still have no idea after seeing the concert; that is kind of strange.  And given that, I don't see the point in doing a DVD of this tour.  The performance won't come close to topping the album, and if the video screens do nothing to help the understanding of the story, what is the point?

The video screens added nothing in my opinion. Some of it was really corny  :corn actually  :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Implode on May 02, 2016, 04:55:25 PM
I thought the video screens were fine, except for the notable scene where Faythe was sleeping in her black cloak with the hood pulled up. :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Another_Won on May 03, 2016, 06:16:03 AM
I was a little unsure about this tour, given the negative comments, but it was unfounded.  The concert was GREAT!  My biggest complaint? NONE.  I might be able to come up with some very nit picky stuff, but why?  I'm not going to overanalyze it and find something wrong.  It was great, I enjoyed myself, loved the performance, lighting, screens, everything.

I certainly understand that we all like to discuss it in great detail, this is DTF after all.  If there were certain parts that bugged people, that's fine, but don't let it ruin the whole show.

If anyone has an opportunity to go, I would recommend that you do and just try to have some fun :)
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on May 03, 2016, 06:20:15 AM
I thought the video screens were fine, except for the notable scene where Faythe was sleeping in her black cloak with the hood pulled up. :lol

I like the screens, but I wish they were closer together. The images were super awkward at times because there was so much space between them.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 03, 2016, 06:29:09 AM
I was a little unsure about this tour, given the negative comments, but it was unfounded.  The concert was GREAT!  My biggest complaint? NONE.  I might be able to come up with some very nit picky stuff, but why?  I'm not going to overanalyze it and find something wrong.  It was great, I enjoyed myself, loved the performance, lighting, screens, everything.

I certainly understand that we all like to discuss it in great detail, this is DTF after all.  If there were certain parts that bugged people, that's fine, but don't let it ruin the whole show.

If anyone has an opportunity to go, I would recommend that you do and just try to have some fun :)

That's exactly what I'm going to do tonight. Just gonna enjoy the show and have fun.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Implode on May 03, 2016, 07:48:13 AM
I thought the video screens were fine, except for the notable scene where Faythe was sleeping in her black cloak with the hood pulled up. :lol

I like the screens, but I wish they were closer together. The images were super awkward at times because there was so much space between them.

That's actually something I personally enjoyed surprisingly.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Another_Won on May 03, 2016, 02:42:32 PM
I was a little unsure about this tour, given the negative comments, but it was unfounded.  The concert was GREAT!  My biggest complaint? NONE.  I might be able to come up with some very nit picky stuff, but why?  I'm not going to overanalyze it and find something wrong.  It was great, I enjoyed myself, loved the performance, lighting, screens, everything.

I certainly understand that we all like to discuss it in great detail, this is DTF after all.  If there were certain parts that bugged people, that's fine, but don't let it ruin the whole show.

If anyone has an opportunity to go, I would recommend that you do and just try to have some fun :)



That's exactly what I'm going to do tonight. Just gonna enjoy the show and have fun.

:tup
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: earlilano on May 03, 2016, 06:34:58 PM
Quick question. How long is the concert from start to end? For those that were able to do meet and greets how many hours prior to doors opening was the meet and greet? Were you able to go to the merchandise store before everyone else got in?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on May 03, 2016, 06:42:27 PM
The time of the meet and greet should be specified in your meet and greet package.  The merch stand is generally NOT open until doors.  The show itself, including intermission, is about 3 hours I believe. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: earlilano on May 03, 2016, 07:07:01 PM
Thanks. Songkick has yet to send me the meet and greet info for the show this Saturday.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: SystematicThought on May 03, 2016, 10:29:04 PM
Quick question. How long is the concert from start to end? For those that were able to do meet and greets how many hours prior to doors opening was the meet and greet? Were you able to go to the merchandise store before everyone else got in?
For Minnesota, the show started shortly after 7:30 and we were walking out around 10:15
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: earlilano on May 03, 2016, 11:36:34 PM
Quick question. How long is the concert from start to end? For those that were able to do meet and greets how many hours prior to doors opening was the meet and greet? Were you able to go to the merchandise store before everyone else got in?
For Minnesota, the show started shortly after 7:30 and we were walking out around 10:15

Thanks.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 04, 2016, 12:35:22 AM
I think their backing tracks messed up.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on May 04, 2016, 06:25:03 AM
If I remember correctly, RCMH started at 8 and was over by 10:30.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: pantsofeternity on May 04, 2016, 12:05:53 PM
If I remember correctly, RCMH started at 8 and was over by 10:30.
Yeah, it was a pretty tight ship -- house lights went down maybe 2 or 3 minutes after 8 and we were easily out of the building before 11.  Might depend on the venue -- some places charge huge fees if you overrun your event time, so I'm sure the band was mindful of that.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on May 04, 2016, 12:21:16 PM
If I remember correctly, RCMH started at 8 and was over by 10:30.
Yeah, it was a pretty tight ship -- house lights went down maybe 2 or 3 minutes after 8 and we were easily out of the building before 11.  Might depend on the venue -- some places charge huge fees if you overrun your event time, so I'm sure the band was mindful of that.

Oh, they know that very well

Overall, shortest concert I've ever been to
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: SystematicThought on May 04, 2016, 12:25:38 PM
Muse takes the cake for that one with me. Their show a few years back was 90 minutes
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on May 04, 2016, 12:30:17 PM
The Steely Dan show I went to last week was just under an hour forty five.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: de_fromage on May 04, 2016, 12:33:14 PM
The album being done in it's entirety instead of a 3 hour "Evening With" format that had two sets, one of new stuff and one of old stuff.

They're not those 30yo kids we once knew
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on May 04, 2016, 12:48:39 PM
Muse takes the cake for that one with me. Their show a few years back was 90 minutes

The Steely Dan show I went to last week was just under an hour forty five.

Were these shows just those bands and no openers?  That's what I meant so not sure if that was clear.

The album being done in it's entirety instead of a 3 hour "Evening With" format that had two sets, one of new stuff and one of old stuff.

They're not those 30yo kids we once knew

Huh?  They did this recently and can clearly still do a tour of that nature.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on May 04, 2016, 12:51:52 PM
Muse takes the cake for that one with me. Their show a few years back was 90 minutes

The Steely Dan show I went to last week was just under an hour forty five.

Were these shows just those bands and no openers?  That's what I meant so not sure if that was clear.


Yeah. No opening act. The tickets said the show started at 7:30. Steely Dan didn't go on until 8:10 and they were off at about 9:50.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on May 04, 2016, 01:10:36 PM
Well that is lame, as a concert consumer, that is not a cool experience.  I can at least say that DT was presenting the new album and had thier theater show for it.  Not sure if that was a similar deal to the other examples, but a typical concert being as a whole concert under 2 hours is lame.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: de_fromage on May 04, 2016, 02:29:20 PM
Muse takes the cake for that one with me. Their show a few years back was 90 minutes

The Steely Dan show I went to last week was just under an hour forty five.

Were these shows just those bands and no openers?  That's what I meant so not sure if that was clear.

The album being done in it's entirety instead of a 3 hour "Evening With" format that had two sets, one of new stuff and one of old stuff.

They're not those 30yo kids we once knew

Huh?  They did this recently and can clearly still do a tour of that nature.

It a joke
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: chrisbDTM on May 04, 2016, 04:20:01 PM
The album front to back is not an energetic live album. The pacing is totally off and the energy at the show I went to reflected that. Any time the band gets on a roll it's brought to a screeching halt with yet another slow piano/vocal interlude
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Volante99 on May 04, 2016, 04:45:33 PM
The album front to back is not an energetic live album. The pacing is totally off and the energy at the show I went to reflected that. Any time the band gets on a roll it's brought to a screeching halt with yet another slow piano/vocal interlude

I was afraid of that being the case but I felt, that for whatever reason, the album played better in a live setting, especially the second act. The people who attended with me seemed to agree.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on May 05, 2016, 07:26:34 AM
The album front to back is not an energetic live album. The pacing is totally off and the energy at the show I went to reflected that. Any time the band gets on a roll it's brought to a screeching halt with yet another slow piano/vocal interlude

I was afraid of that being the case but I felt, that for whatever reason, the album played better in a live setting, especially the second act. The people who attended with me seemed to agree.

I thought it was better live as well, but the pacing is still tough to really get rocking at the concert. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: goo-goo on May 05, 2016, 07:48:00 AM
The album front to back is not an energetic live album. The pacing is totally off and the energy at the show I went to reflected that. Any time the band gets on a roll it's brought to a screeching halt with yet another slow piano/vocal interlude

I was afraid of that being the case but I felt, that for whatever reason, the album played better in a live setting, especially the second act. The people who attended with me seemed to agree.

I thought it was better live as well, but the pacing is still tough to really get rocking at the concert.

Well, it's a rock opera, not a full blown rock concert. I greatly enjoyed it in Denver and made me like the album even more. I wasn't a big fan of it during my first few listens. After seeing live, now I get it. And it became a top 5 DT album for me.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: SebastianPratesi on May 05, 2016, 09:06:27 AM
I was actually speaking to a friend about this. I'm curious as to how the audience in Buenos Aires will react to the show/music next month in Luna Park. Because, the crowds in Argentina (and South America in general, I think) tend to jump/cheer/clap/sing along throughout the entire shows of their favourite bands. I've read that, on this tour in Europe &/or the US, the audiences are actually a lot quieter than usual. So, it will be weird seeing a bunch of other fans in Luna Park sitting still. (not complaining - I actually stand or sit still in rock shows)

How would all of you describe the general audience reaction/mood throughout the shows?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on May 05, 2016, 09:08:08 AM
I was actually speaking to a friend about this. I'm curious as to how the audience in Buenos Aires will react to the show/music next month in Luna Park. Because, the crowds in Argentina (and South America in general, I think) tend to jump/cheer/clap/sing along throughout the entire shows of their favourite bands. I've read that, on this tour in Europe &/or the US, the audiences are actually a lot quieter than usual. So, it will be weird seeing a bunch of other fans in Luna Park sitting still. (not complaining - I actually stand or sit still in rock shows)

How would all of you describe the general audience reaction/mood throughout the shows?

The Luna Park DVD didn't really have a crazy crowd as I've seen from other metal bands performing in SA.  Regardless, the general audience is very tame and quiet, but I also think the general audience was enjoying the show.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Implode on May 05, 2016, 09:51:41 AM
Also, though this is par the course for DT concerts, I felt they were a bit too loud, especially for the material on this album. I'm glad I brought my ear plugs.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on May 05, 2016, 10:20:30 AM
The album front to back is not an energetic live album. The pacing is totally off and the energy at the show I went to reflected that. Any time the band gets on a roll it's brought to a screeching halt with yet another slow piano/vocal interlude

I was afraid of that being the case but I felt, that for whatever reason, the album played better in a live setting, especially the second act. The people who attended with me seemed to agree.

I thought it was better live as well, but the pacing is still tough to really get rocking at the concert.
Well, it's a rock opera, not a full blown rock concert. I greatly enjoyed it in Denver and made me like the album even more. I wasn't a big fan of it during my first few listens. After seeing live, now I get it. And it became a top 5 DT album for me.

It affected me the same way. I think it really comes across well live. Like cram said, though, the pacing is a bit unorthodox. Though the fact that it plays more like a rock opera/musical, I think we're supposed to feel the dramatics from each song and not necessarily be able to rock out with each tune.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: oyajiben on May 05, 2016, 03:35:07 PM
The album front to back is not an energetic live album. The pacing is totally off and the energy at the show I went to reflected that. Any time the band gets on a roll it's brought to a screeching halt with yet another slow piano/vocal interlude

I was afraid of that being the case but I felt, that for whatever reason, the album played better in a live setting, especially the second act. The people who attended with me seemed to agree.

I thought it was better live as well, but the pacing is still tough to really get rocking at the concert.
Well, it's a rock opera, not a full blown rock concert. I greatly enjoyed it in Denver and made me like the album even more. I wasn't a big fan of it during my first few listens. After seeing live, now I get it. And it became a top 5 DT album for me.

It affected me the same way. I think it really comes across well live. Like cram said, though, the pacing is a bit unorthodox. Though the fact that it plays more like a rock opera/musical, I think we're supposed to feel the dramatics from each song and not necessarily be able to rock out with each tune.

The more I read about the experience the more I think it will be like seeing a Broadway musical. If so, as far as the energy of the show, I hope it's closer to Mamma Mia! than Les Miserables...
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: SebastianPratesi on May 05, 2016, 05:10:39 PM
I was actually speaking to a friend about this. I'm curious as to how the audience in Buenos Aires will react to the show/music next month in Luna Park. Because, the crowds in Argentina (and South America in general, I think) tend to jump/cheer/clap/sing along throughout the entire shows of their favourite bands. I've read that, on this tour in Europe &/or the US, the audiences are actually a lot quieter than usual. So, it will be weird seeing a bunch of other fans in Luna Park sitting still. (not complaining - I actually stand or sit still in rock shows)

How would all of you describe the general audience reaction/mood throughout the shows?

The Luna Park DVD didn't really have a crazy crowd as I've seen from other metal bands performing in SA.  Regardless, the general audience is very tame and quiet, but I also think the general audience was enjoying the show.
You are right, that DVD doesn't show a crazy audience. I think Maiden's En Vivo! CD/DVD is more representative of what I'm saying.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: macpilot on May 20, 2016, 11:53:10 AM
Biggest complaint - They released the album AFTER many of the tickets went on sale.  I was confident the album was going to be great, as they 2 songs they released at that point were both excellent.  But I paid $330 to do Meet and Greet and get front row at Los Angeles, and had to buy these BEFORE the album went on sale.  Boy was I let down when the CDs arrived and I listened to the other 32 "songs".  In the end, I was left with a 5 solid songs on a 34 song album.  This would have been acceptable if those five songs lasted more that a few minutes apiece, instead it amounted to 30 minutes of listenable DT. 

Second biggest complaint - They chose to play this inferior album in its entirety, and nothing else.

Third biggest complaint - The Meet and Greet photography quality/distribution was a total joke.  The lady who shot the photos in LA appeared to have a decent SLR camera, but obviously had no idea how to use it.  Part of the reason for paying big $$$ to meet the band is to get a nice photo with them, and this is 2016, and what did we get?  A low resolution, poorly exposed, completely shoddy photo.  I went to 2 previous Meet and Greets in LA for DT, in 2008, and in 2014, and shockingly, the photo quality of this year's event was inferior to both of those previous events!  Uh, how could this be?  And you can't even download a high-resolution version from the SmugMug website either, so you are forced to "hope" that the prints you order turn out better than the download, which this year, sadly, they don't.  Mr. Petrucci, PLEASE tell that person to get a clue about taking photos, because for this fan, a photo of that quality after spending $330 to see and meet you all was, this year anyway, was a major disappointment.

Fourth complaint - This guy Myung is a tool, plain and simply.  Look buddy, we are PAYING you to play music and entertain us, and in this case, with the Meet and Greet, we are PAYING to meet you.  You act like your mom just died and we are all a burden to you.  Would it hurt to SMILE?  Next time please don't even bother to come to the Greet like Neal Peart, another guy too good for his fans.  It is such a shame as DT is my favorite band, and the reality is that only 2 of the 5 guys are really very personable, the other being Petrucci.

By far the coolest dude of the bunch is Mangini.  What a great personality and he obviously values his fans.  That was the highlight for me of the entire night, having a few words with that man.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 20, 2016, 12:12:17 PM
Biggest complaint - They released the album AFTER many of the tickets went on sale.  I was confident the album was going to be great, as they 2 songs they released at that point were both excellent.  But I paid $330 to do Meet and Greet and get front row at Los Angeles, and had to buy these BEFORE the album went on sale.  Boy was I let down when the CDs arrived and I listened to the other 32 "songs".  In the end, I was left with a 5 solid songs on a 34 song album.  This would have been acceptable if those five songs lasted more that a few minutes apiece, instead it amounted to 30 minutes of listenable DT. 

Second biggest complaint - They chose to play this inferior album in its entirety, and nothing else.

Third biggest complaint - The Meet and Greet photography quality/distribution was a total joke.  The lady who shot the photos in LA appeared to have a decent SLR camera, but obviously had no idea how to use it.  Part of the reason for paying big $$$ to meet the band is to get a nice photo with them, and this is 2016, and what did we get?  A low resolution, poorly exposed, completely shoddy photo.  I went to 2 previous Meet and Greets in LA for DT, in 2008, and in 2014, and shockingly, the photo quality of this year's event was inferior to both of those previous events!  Uh, how could this be?  And you can't even download a high-resolution version from the SmugMug website either, so you are forced to "hope" that the prints you order turn out better than the download, which this year, sadly, they don't.  Mr. Petrucci, PLEASE tell that person to get a clue about taking photos, because for this fan, a photo of that quality after spending $330 to see and meet you all was, this year anyway, was a major disappointment.

Fourth complaint - This guy Myung is a tool, plain and simply.  Look buddy, we are PAYING you to play music and entertain us, and in this case, with the Meet and Greet, we are PAYING to meet you.  You act like your mom just died and we are all a burden to you.  Would it hurt to SMILE?  Next time please don't even bother to come to the Greet like Neal Peart, another guy too good for his fans.  It is such a shame as DT is my favorite band, and the reality is that only 2 of the 5 guys are really very personable, the other being Petrucci.

By far the coolest dude of the bunch is Mangini.  What a great personality and he obviously values his fans.  That was the highlight for me of the entire night, having a few words with that man.
Sorry to hear your DT experience wasn't that great, but here are a couple of my thoughts:

1) The album was released on January 29th, if I'm not mistaken. The concert on LA was this month. You had a solid amount of time to sell your tickets to another person if you weren't so invested in going. Also, it's not DT's fault you didn't like the album and you felt like you wasted your 330 bucks on seeing live an album you didn't like at all. You could've waited (like a lot of folks did) until the album was released to see if you wanted to go and, most of all, pay such a big amount of money. There's no one to blame but you in that regard.

2) Once again, it's not DT's fault you didn't like the album. The tour was advertised as The Astonishing - Live from day one. You'll find that several thousands of people (me included) love the album and can't wait to see it performed it its entirety, so props for DT for doing something that will probably never happen again.

3) With the Meet & Greet thing, I can't really have a word because I haven't been in one myself; but I'm quite sure that other persons have complained of the experience as well and you should let the band know about it so they can give a better Meet & Greet experience in the future (using nicer words and not being as rude as you come across in your first post in the forum, of course).

4) You must've been living under a rock if you didn't know how Myung is, personality-wise of course. Also, I'm not a mod myself, but the way you describe him comes across as pretty offensive to me and that's pretty much against the rules; so I would recommend you to tone it down a few notches. A lot of forum members here have met DT themselves and have nothing but nice things to say about all of them.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on May 20, 2016, 12:23:57 PM
Biggest complaint - They released the album AFTER many of the tickets went on sale.  I was confident the album was going to be great, as they 2 songs they released at that point were both excellent.  But I paid $330 to do Meet and Greet and get front row at Los Angeles, and had to buy these BEFORE the album went on sale.  Boy was I let down when the CDs arrived and I listened to the other 32 "songs".  In the end, I was left with a 5 solid songs on a 34 song album.  This would have been acceptable if those five songs lasted more that a few minutes apiece, instead it amounted to 30 minutes of listenable DT. 

Second biggest complaint - They chose to play this inferior album in its entirety, and nothing else.

Third biggest complaint - The Meet and Greet photography quality/distribution was a total joke.  The lady who shot the photos in LA appeared to have a decent SLR camera, but obviously had no idea how to use it.  Part of the reason for paying big $$$ to meet the band is to get a nice photo with them, and this is 2016, and what did we get?  A low resolution, poorly exposed, completely shoddy photo.  I went to 2 previous Meet and Greets in LA for DT, in 2008, and in 2014, and shockingly, the photo quality of this year's event was inferior to both of those previous events!  Uh, how could this be?  And you can't even download a high-resolution version from the SmugMug website either, so you are forced to "hope" that the prints you order turn out better than the download, which this year, sadly, they don't.  Mr. Petrucci, PLEASE tell that person to get a clue about taking photos, because for this fan, a photo of that quality after spending $330 to see and meet you all was, this year anyway, was a major disappointment.

Fourth complaint - This guy Myung is a tool, plain and simply.  Look buddy, we are PAYING you to play music and entertain us, and in this case, with the Meet and Greet, we are PAYING to meet you.  You act like your mom just died and we are all a burden to you.  Would it hurt to SMILE?  Next time please don't even bother to come to the Greet like Neal Peart, another guy too good for his fans.  It is such a shame as DT is my favorite band, and the reality is that only 2 of the 5 guys are really very personable, the other being Petrucci.

By far the coolest dude of the bunch is Mangini.  What a great personality and he obviously values his fans.  That was the highlight for me of the entire night, having a few words with that man.

 :lol :lol I'm trying to figure out how someone could be a big enough fan to drop $300+ on a meet and greet while at the same time expecting some other form of behavior from Myung. I really don't have a lot of sympathy for this post. You had plenty of time to not get yourself into this position, instead, you take it out on the band.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on May 20, 2016, 12:30:02 PM
macpilot? mp? mike portnoy  :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: ariich on May 20, 2016, 12:40:16 PM
Biggest complaint - They released the album AFTER many of the tickets went on sale.  I was confident the album was going to be great, as they 2 songs they released at that point were both excellent.  But I paid $330 to do Meet and Greet and get front row at Los Angeles, and had to buy these BEFORE the album went on sale.  Boy was I let down when the CDs arrived and I listened to the other 32 "songs".  In the end, I was left with a 5 solid songs on a 34 song album.  This would have been acceptable if those five songs lasted more that a few minutes apiece, instead it amounted to 30 minutes of listenable DT. 

Second biggest complaint - They chose to play this inferior album in its entirety, and nothing else.

Third biggest complaint - The Meet and Greet photography quality/distribution was a total joke.  The lady who shot the photos in LA appeared to have a decent SLR camera, but obviously had no idea how to use it.  Part of the reason for paying big $$$ to meet the band is to get a nice photo with them, and this is 2016, and what did we get?  A low resolution, poorly exposed, completely shoddy photo.  I went to 2 previous Meet and Greets in LA for DT, in 2008, and in 2014, and shockingly, the photo quality of this year's event was inferior to both of those previous events!  Uh, how could this be?  And you can't even download a high-resolution version from the SmugMug website either, so you are forced to "hope" that the prints you order turn out better than the download, which this year, sadly, they don't.  Mr. Petrucci, PLEASE tell that person to get a clue about taking photos, because for this fan, a photo of that quality after spending $330 to see and meet you all was, this year anyway, was a major disappointment.

Fourth complaint - This guy Myung is a tool, plain and simply.  Look buddy, we are PAYING you to play music and entertain us, and in this case, with the Meet and Greet, we are PAYING to meet you.  You act like your mom just died and we are all a burden to you.  Would it hurt to SMILE?  Next time please don't even bother to come to the Greet like Neal Peart, another guy too good for his fans.  It is such a shame as DT is my favorite band, and the reality is that only 2 of the 5 guys are really very personable, the other being Petrucci.

By far the coolest dude of the bunch is Mangini.  What a great personality and he obviously values his fans.  That was the highlight for me of the entire night, having a few words with that man.
Sorry to hear your experience was pretty meh. Just got a few things in response, but I'll separate them out between mod mode and non-mod mode (you should pay attention to the former, the latter it's up to you).

Mod mode:

You are welcome to express any view, positive or negative, as long as you do so respectfully. Indeed, nothing you said is new here - some fans and forumers don't really like The Astonishing, a small number downright hate it; and it's not infrequent that people express disappointment at the Meet & Greet experience (I myself have never seen the attraction). Just making it clear that no opinion of out of bounds or against the rules here.

However, the way you expressed your opinion was quite insulting to the band, and to John Myung in particular. We have forum rules (which you might want to check out: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=7.0) which are quite clear about this - no insulting the band, or other members of the forum. We want the forum to share views and debate things, but we want this to happen in a grown-up and respectful way. Respect that, and you're welcome to stick around, but continue to post like that and I'm afraid you're not. You can consider this a friendly warning.

Normal human mode:

Ok now that the explanation of the rules and the warning are out of the way, I kind of agree with what Chino and Darklol said. I particularly think you're being very unfair towards Myung, who is a quiet introverted person who happens to love playing music. The fact that Mangini is more extroverted and chatty and smiley doesn't mean he values fans any more than Myung. Ultimately, you paid to meet the band, and you met the band. If you're disappointed with the experience (as others have been) you don't need to do it again, but clearly enough people like or love the experience to keep doing it and to make it worthwhile for DT.

Also, just my own personal opinion, but assuming you're not so wealthy that $330 is basically an irrelevance, then spending that much when you've no idea what you're getting seems very risky to me. As consumers we have a certain responsibility to know what we're getting ourselves in for.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Dave_Manchester on May 20, 2016, 01:30:03 PM
Biggest complaint - They released the album AFTER many of the tickets went on sale.  I was confident the album was going to be great, as they 2 songs they released at that point were both excellent.  But I paid $330 to do Meet and Greet and get front row at Los Angeles, and had to buy these BEFORE the album went on sale.  Boy was I let down when the CDs arrived and I listened to the other 32 "songs".  In the end, I was left with a 5 solid songs on a 34 song album.  This would have been acceptable if those five songs lasted more that a few minutes apiece, instead it amounted to 30 minutes of listenable DT. 

Second biggest complaint - They chose to play this inferior album in its entirety, and nothing else.

Third biggest complaint - The Meet and Greet photography quality/distribution was a total joke.  The lady who shot the photos in LA appeared to have a decent SLR camera, but obviously had no idea how to use it.  Part of the reason for paying big $$$ to meet the band is to get a nice photo with them, and this is 2016, and what did we get?  A low resolution, poorly exposed, completely shoddy photo.  I went to 2 previous Meet and Greets in LA for DT, in 2008, and in 2014, and shockingly, the photo quality of this year's event was inferior to both of those previous events!  Uh, how could this be?  And you can't even download a high-resolution version from the SmugMug website either, so you are forced to "hope" that the prints you order turn out better than the download, which this year, sadly, they don't.  Mr. Petrucci, PLEASE tell that person to get a clue about taking photos, because for this fan, a photo of that quality after spending $330 to see and meet you all was, this year anyway, was a major disappointment.

Fourth complaint - This guy Myung is a tool, plain and simply.  Look buddy, we are PAYING you to play music and entertain us, and in this case, with the Meet and Greet, we are PAYING to meet you.  You act like your mom just died and we are all a burden to you.  Would it hurt to SMILE?  Next time please don't even bother to come to the Greet like Neal Peart, another guy too good for his fans.  It is such a shame as DT is my favorite band, and the reality is that only 2 of the 5 guys are really very personable, the other being Petrucci.

By far the coolest dude of the bunch is Mangini.  What a great personality and he obviously values his fans.  That was the highlight for me of the entire night, having a few words with that man.


Sorry to hear you weren't impressed with Myung's behaviour at the Meet and Greet, but just to bring a different experience to the table (since you called him "a tool, plain and simple").

I saw the band 4 times on the last tour, doing the Meet and Greet twice, once in Manchester England and once in St Petersburg Russia. I wrote long reviews of both experiences on MP's forum. One of the things I focused on in those reviews was John Myung's behaviour at the M&G - it was the most pleasant surprise not only for me but for a lot of people I spoke to during and after the Meet. He was friendly, very respectful, and seem genuinely humbled by the reaction of the fans to him and his band. The band has a pretty strict 'no handshake' rule, but he offered me his hand when I told him thanks for the music.

His introverted and quiet nature is infamous, and as a fan of DT (actually as a person in general) you have to respect it. Even, in my case, like it. Advising him to stay away from the Meets because he doesn't behave how you want him to is unfair on your part. I certainly wouldn't have wanted him to not be there when I met the band. I'm glad he's in the photo, I'm glad I have his signature on the album, and I'm glad I got to tell him thanks for what he does.   

Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on May 20, 2016, 01:39:26 PM
If you had gone to meet and greets before, how was Myung then?  What changed that this time he is a "tool"?  I think if you didn't like the album you can express that, but sounds like a lot of sour grapes because you spent a lot of money and didn't enjoy it.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: macpilot on May 20, 2016, 07:11:30 PM
I appreciate your feedback folks.  Yes maybe I was a bit harsh.  Sorry to offend any of you as clearly there are some serious fanboys here.  Yes my complaint that the album is poor is relevant to the show as it was not implied that we would not hear any other tracks from other albums.  Myung "just being myung" is still lame, so yeah.  How can you defend a guy who can't even smile?  Are you all that enamored with him that you can expect a little normal human behavior?  Wow.  Did any of you purchase prints?  They were garbage.  The thread was about complaints and I shared mine.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on May 20, 2016, 07:26:09 PM
I appreciate your feedback folks.  Yes maybe I was a bit harsh.  Sorry to offend any of you as clearly there are some serious fanboys here.  Yes my complaint that the album is poor is relevant to the show as it was not implied that we would not hear any other tracks from other albums.  Myung "just being myung" is still lame, so yeah.  How can you defend a guy who can't even smile?  Are you all that enamored with him that you can expect a little normal human behavior?  Wow.  Did any of you purchase prints?  They were garbage.  The thread was about complaints and I shared mine.

You're being extremely ignorant. You obviously have very little real world experience.  It's not about being enamored with him. He has an introverted personality. It's not a switch that can just be turned off and on. Trust me. I know.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: KevShmev on May 20, 2016, 08:26:26 PM
I appreciate your feedback folks.  Yes maybe I was a bit harsh.  Sorry to offend any of you as clearly there are some serious fanboys here.  Yes my complaint that the album is poor is relevant to the show as it was not implied that we would not hear any other tracks from other albums.  Myung "just being myung" is still lame, so yeah.  How can you defend a guy who can't even smile?  Are you all that enamored with him that you can expect a little normal human behavior?  Wow.  Did any of you purchase prints?  They were garbage.  The thread was about complaints and I shared mine.

You're being extremely ignorant. You obviously have very little real world experience.  It's not about being enamored with him. He has an introverted personality. It's not a switch that can just be turned off and on. Trust me. I know.

Exactly. 

macpilot, you mentioned Neil Peart, too, and he, by his own admission, is socially awkward and not comfortable around fans after having bad experiences with some who tracked him down to a hotel once in a city where the band was playing.  That is a normal human reaction.  These socially awkward people cannot put on happy faces for every fan they meet, and if you have a problem with it, that says more about you than it does them.  I don't mean that to sound harsh, but don't act so entitled. They are just people like you and me, with issues, bad days, etc. of their own, too.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Darkstarshades on May 20, 2016, 08:31:50 PM
I appreciate your feedback folks.  Yes maybe I was a bit harsh.  Sorry to offend any of you as clearly there are some serious fanboys here.  Yes my complaint that the album is poor is relevant to the show as it was not implied that we would not hear any other tracks from other albums.  Myung "just being myung" is still lame, so yeah.  How can you defend a guy who can't even smile?  Are you all that enamored with him that you can expect a little normal human behavior?  Wow.  Did any of you purchase prints?  They were garbage.  The thread was about complaints and I shared mine.

Whoah, calm down there.
"How can you defend a guy who can't even smile?" I don't think JM is the kind of person who goes around smiling anyone, I'm pretty sure he appreciates comments and thoughts on his work, but did you ever sit down and think that maybe your memory of the M&G isn't accurate? You're probably overreacting to his actual behavior.

"Little normal human behavior"? Holy fuck, he's the fucking DT bassist, that makes him inhuman no, really, wtf?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on May 20, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
I appreciate your feedback folks.  Yes maybe I was a bit harsh.  Sorry to offend any of you as clearly there are some serious fanboys here.  Yes my complaint that the album is poor is relevant to the show as it was not implied that we would not hear any other tracks from other albums.  Myung "just being myung" is still lame, so yeah.  How can you defend a guy who can't even smile?  Are you all that enamored with him that you can expect a little normal human behavior?  Wow.  Did any of you purchase prints?  They were garbage.  The thread was about complaints and I shared mine.

It was pretty obvious that the tour would not feature songs from other albums. every interview stated it directly and every advertisement implied it.  I guess I'd be bummed too if I wasn't paying attention and found this out the night of the show.   Glad I managed expectations by, you know, reading about it in forums such as this.

I'm curious to know your expectations re your M&G exchange with JM.  I asked questions about his bass rig, which he answered thoughtfully and happily, but yeah he is super quiet!  Is it fair to think he should transform himself to fit your energy level? (I'm trying to see your POV, because sometimes a quiet disposition is mistaken as being rude or pompous, but that's usually a false perception).

I didn't buy any prints, but I've noticed some pictures in past tours to be low quality when enlarged.  But I'm not passionate or knowledgeable about cameras, so I can see why this would irk someone who is.   

Anyway, welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: metrojam on May 21, 2016, 10:49:48 AM
"The set list"!!!....
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: BelichickFan on May 22, 2016, 07:00:56 AM
Yes my complaint that the album is poor is relevant to the show as it was not implied that we would not hear any other tracks from other albums.
It was.  When I bought my L.A. tickets I hadn't heard the CDs but I knew it was The Astonishing and nothing else.  In fact it wasn't just implied, it was a known fact.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: YtseJam on May 22, 2016, 06:44:15 PM
There is definitely something off with Myung. I know that is not what this thread is about but it's obvious it wasn't just the show I was at. He definitely looked like he would rather be doing ANYTHING other than be up there playing. He never once looked out into the audience, he just looked like he was not in a good place. Have there been any interviews with him about this tour?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on May 22, 2016, 06:49:03 PM
Take it from someone who has seen them a couple of dozen times and watched more bootlegs than I can remember, he is not acting any different than he has in recent years.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: YtseJam on May 22, 2016, 07:10:17 PM
I strongly disagree. I have seen him play live a dozen times in person, there is no way this is his normal. just look at any youtube video even. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT7aNco6Q20
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Implode on May 23, 2016, 08:58:48 AM
clearly there are some serious fanboys here.

 :eek :eek :eek :eek
no way!!!!
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on May 23, 2016, 09:01:20 AM

clearly there are some serious fanboys here.


On a designated Dream Theater forum... who would have thought?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on May 23, 2016, 01:06:35 PM
There is definitely something off with Myung. I know that is not what this thread is about but it's obvious it wasn't just the show I was at. He definitely looked like he would rather be doing ANYTHING other than be up there playing. He never once looked out into the audience, he just looked like he was not in a good place. Have there been any interviews with him about this tour?

I personally think the whole presentation of the album and theater vibe of the show has lead the entire band to be a bit less enthusiastic on stage.  Everyone kind of just plays the stuff and not much more.  The band was never really a big crowd engaging band so I don't see it as a huge difference, but this tour just turns the engagement down even more and I think that is what you are seeing.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on May 23, 2016, 06:11:35 PM
Keep in mind that JM is reading cues on a screen of when he is to walk on and off stage (and I suspect even some passages of musical notation), so that draws on one's live performance too.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: The Curious Orange on June 08, 2016, 07:04:37 AM
As I said several pages back, I certainly got a "Never meet your Heroes" vibe from the M&G. I only did it to get a seat near the front, but the M&G certainly wasn't value for money, and only JP and MM seemed to want to be there.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on June 08, 2016, 08:35:20 AM
There is definitely something off with Myung. I know that is not what this thread is about but it's obvious it wasn't just the show I was at. He definitely looked like he would rather be doing ANYTHING other than be up there playing. He never once looked out into the audience, he just looked like he was not in a good place. Have there been any interviews with him about this tour?

I personally think the whole presentation of the album and theater vibe of the show has lead the entire band to be a bit less enthusiastic on stage.  Everyone kind of just plays the stuff and not much more.  The band was never really a big crowd engaging band so I don't see it as a huge difference, but this tour just turns the engagement down even more and I think that is what you are seeing.

I think playing to a click track has had just as much of an effect on that as this album in particular.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on June 08, 2016, 09:13:37 AM
There is definitely something off with Myung. I know that is not what this thread is about but it's obvious it wasn't just the show I was at. He definitely looked like he would rather be doing ANYTHING other than be up there playing. He never once looked out into the audience, he just looked like he was not in a good place. Have there been any interviews with him about this tour?

I personally think the whole presentation of the album and theater vibe of the show has lead the entire band to be a bit less enthusiastic on stage.  Everyone kind of just plays the stuff and not much more.  The band was never really a big crowd engaging band so I don't see it as a huge difference, but this tour just turns the engagement down even more and I think that is what you are seeing.

I think playing to a click track has had just as much of an effect on that as this album in particular.

Sure the click track definitely plays a role too, but the previous tour used a click track and the band was more engaging with the audience last tour I thought (saw 3 shows on the last tour, only one this tour).
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on June 08, 2016, 09:36:48 AM
Having seen the tour myself, my answer to the thread title would be:  None.  The show I saw was amazing in every respect.  I couldn't find something to complain about if I tried. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 08, 2016, 10:19:08 AM
There is definitely something off with Myung. I know that is not what this thread is about but it's obvious it wasn't just the show I was at. He definitely looked like he would rather be doing ANYTHING other than be up there playing. He never once looked out into the audience, he just looked like he was not in a good place. Have there been any interviews with him about this tour?

I personally think the whole presentation of the album and theater vibe of the show has lead the entire band to be a bit less enthusiastic on stage.  Everyone kind of just plays the stuff and not much more.  The band was never really a big crowd engaging band so I don't see it as a huge difference, but this tour just turns the engagement down even more and I think that is what you are seeing.

I think playing to a click track has had just as much of an effect on that as this album in particular.
Probably not.  AFAIK, JM isn't playing to a click.  He's playing to MM, just like normal.  For most of the performance, MM is the only one hearing the click, unless I'm mistaken.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on June 08, 2016, 10:28:32 AM
I wanted to ask more about that at the show when I saw them, but it wasn't in the cards.  JM and JLB did not come out at all after the show.  I spoke briefly with Jordan and Mike, but they both had people there that they knew that they took quite a bit of time with.  So while they were very polite and made a point of talking to everyone in the room, my conversations with them were short.  The only person I had an opportunity to talk to for any length of time was JP, and even that was relatively short.  We talked about some cool things, but I couldn't even remotely get to everything on my list--especially since when he and the others would get to us, they of course spent time talking to my son and my friend Jack's son and focused on them.  No way I was about to cut in on the kids' experience to try to get my own questions answered.  But if there was time, I definitely had planned to try to get into that a bit.  I should have tried to talk to Maddi about it, but didn't think of it at the time.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on June 08, 2016, 10:46:25 AM
Having seen the tour myself, my answer to the thread title would be:  None.  The show I saw was amazing in every respect.  I couldn't find something to complain about if I tried.

Both shows I went to were awesome, and I really hope I get to see it at least one more time on their second NA run.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on June 08, 2016, 10:49:24 AM
Whether I get to see it again, I hope the plans to record it come to fruition and that they get a good performance so I (and others) can enjoy it after the tour is over and done with.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on June 08, 2016, 11:28:31 AM
Whether I get to see it again, I hope the plans to record it come to fruition and that they get a good performance so I (and others) can enjoy it after the tour is over and done with.

+ a million

It would be astonishing if of all tours, this was the one that was not recorded
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 08, 2016, 11:33:46 AM
As I said several pages back, I certainly got a "Never meet your Heroes" vibe from the M&G. I only did it to get a seat near the front, but the M&G certainly wasn't value for money, and only JP and MM seemed to want to be there.
It used to be much better in the past. When they first introduced it, I think they only had 20 or 30 seats set aside which allowed for there to be more interaction with the guys. They weren't simply just sitting behind a table and having fans line up to sign something. Shame that it seems to have become more of a money thing than anything else.
 
 
There is definitely something off with Myung. I know that is not what this thread is about but it's obvious it wasn't just the show I was at. He definitely looked like he would rather be doing ANYTHING other than be up there playing. He never once looked out into the audience, he just looked like he was not in a good place. Have there been any interviews with him about this tour?
I personally think the whole presentation of the album and theater vibe of the show has lead the entire band to be a bit less enthusiastic on stage.  Everyone kind of just plays the stuff and not much more.  The band was never really a big crowd engaging band so I don't see it as a huge difference, but this tour just turns the engagement down even more and I think that is what you are seeing.
I think playing to a click track has had just as much of an effect on that as this album in particular.
Sure the click track definitely plays a role too, but the previous tour used a click track and the band was more engaging with the audience last tour I thought (saw 3 shows on the last tour, only one this tour).
Dunno if JM hears the click or not, but one major difference with this tour is the fact that JM now has an iPad, which he explained kept various notes for him regarding the songs and other things to keep track of during the show. For whatever reason, he found this necessary whereas he never did in the past. So there must be more of a need for concentration than at a normal DT show, and that might be why he is so much more focused on his instrument this time around.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 08, 2016, 11:38:13 AM
I'd image everyone in the band could hear the click in their in-ears on this tour just because of the amount of sequencing, transitions between songs, hearing cues, etc... But maybe not, MM could have been using a silent "cowbell" like MP used to use to simply count them in or cue them.

In my experience with playing to a click track though, it seems to work better if everyone has it in their ear mix to some degree. A lot of players(myself included) will mix the click just loud enough in the in-ears that they can clearly hear it when the drummer isn't playing, but the drums are loud enough when being played they pretty much cover up the click.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on June 08, 2016, 11:50:20 AM
I am pretty sure they all have access to it, but each has only certain parts of it that they have chosen to have audible in their mix where it makes sense to do so.  (other than Mike, who obviously has the entire click)  But beyond that, I have no idea of the specifics.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Adami on June 08, 2016, 01:21:36 PM
Based on previous interviews and .....you know....logic, from a guy who plays to a click, when the drums are in play, MM hears the click only. When there's no drums, then whoever is playing hears the click. It's literally just an issue of the sound guy turning up a fader at times. So when JR is playing piano with no drums, he hears the click. Guitar with no drums? JP hears the click. But since JM doesn't play without drums (to my memory) he probably never hears it.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Architeuthis on June 08, 2016, 02:20:13 PM
Whether I get to see it again, I hope the plans to record it come to fruition and that they get a good performance so I (and others) can enjoy it after the tour is over and done with.
This! Would be very nice to re-live this in the home theater experience. I had a couple other friends that were gonna go to the concert in Seattle with me, but they couldn't go due to circumstances. It would be cool to get some beer and have them over for the blu-ray showing.  :corn :metal
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: SebastianPratesi on June 09, 2016, 05:01:48 AM
Based on previous interviews and .....you know....logic, from a guy who plays to a click, when the drums are in play, MM hears the click only. When there's no drums, then whoever is playing hears the click. It's literally just an issue of the sound guy turning up a fader at times. So when JR is playing piano with no drums, he hears the click. Guitar with no drums? JP hears the click. But since JM doesn't play without drums (to my memory) he probably never hears it.
In the middle of "The Walking Shadow", right after the sound of steps and Faythe's melody, JM quietly starts the section which later develops into the 'countdown' at the end of the song. He is playing four bars of 14/8, but changing the accents a few times. Then, the full band comes in.

I guess he must be using a click track during that bit when he is alone.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 09, 2016, 06:54:27 AM
Based on previous interviews and .....you know....logic, from a guy who plays to a click, when the drums are in play, MM hears the click only. When there's no drums, then whoever is playing hears the click. It's literally just an issue of the sound guy turning up a fader at times. So when JR is playing piano with no drums, he hears the click. Guitar with no drums? JP hears the click.But since JM doesn't play without drums (to my memory)he probably never hears it.

Coming from someone who has played with a click for years, there's a really, really slim chance that's the way they do it. Not sure why you would consider that logical. Having a sound guy turning anything up or down in my in-ear mix randomly throughout a show sounds like a nightmare. You find a good mix in sound check and stick with it. Also that would require your monitor engineer to know exactly when each of the 5 members needs to or doesn't need to hear the click during every single second of 2 hours and 15 minutes of music. So the monitor engineer forgets to turn the click up in JPs ears and he can't hear the cue to start a song...And the whole thing gets off? No way.

Obviously neither of us know for sure, but I'm just basing this off my experience. I've played with several bands that run in-ears, at several churches that run in-ears (some with a designated monitor tech) and I've never heard anyone do it the way you are describing.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Adami on June 09, 2016, 09:39:36 AM
You think it's a leap of logic that the sound guys know their cues?

Are you then suggesting they have click the whole show? I guess that's possible, albeit it a bit lazy.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on June 09, 2016, 09:41:23 AM
You think it's a leap of logic that the sound guys know their cues?

Are you then suggesting they have click the whole show? I guess that's possible, albeit it a bit lazy.

I thought the sound guy was pretty involved with the timing of the show so I think it's very possible he is involved in the click track, but my opinion means nothing since I can't even play an instrument let alone ever played to a click.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on June 09, 2016, 09:47:12 AM
Based on previous interviews and .....you know....logic, from a guy who plays to a click, when the drums are in play, MM hears the click only. When there's no drums, then whoever is playing hears the click. It's literally just an issue of the sound guy turning up a fader at times. So when JR is playing piano with no drums, he hears the click. Guitar with no drums? JP hears the click.But since JM doesn't play without drums (to my memory)he probably never hears it.

Coming from someone who has played with a click for years, there's a really, really slim chance that's the way they do it. Not sure why you would consider that logical. Having a sound guy turning anything up or down in my in-ear mix randomly throughout a show sounds like a nightmare. You find a good mix in sound check and stick with it. Also that would require your monitor engineer to know exactly when each of the 5 members needs to or doesn't need to hear the click during every single second of 2 hours and 15 minutes of music. So the monitor engineer forgets to turn the click up in JPs ears and he can't hear the cue to start a song...And the whole thing gets off? No way.

Obviously neither of us know for sure, but I'm just basing this off my experience. I've played with several bands that run in-ears, at several churches that run in-ears (some with a designated monitor tech) and I've never heard anyone do it the way you are describing.
That is my experience as well.  Monitor mix preference, whether we are talking about in-ears or stage monitors, is a very personal thing, so it is rare that someone would change it on the fly unless the musician is directing them to.  I don't see any reason that would change with a click.  I would be really surprised if it wasn't a case of everyone dialing in their preferences ahead of time in terms of when they want to hear the click and how loud, relative to the other instruments, and when it gets dialed up and down.  Then it is all programmed and there is no need to actively monitor it unless the dynamics of that particular show cause a musician to signal that he wants it altered.  That isn't lazy.  That's just common sense and how it is often done.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 09, 2016, 09:57:05 AM
You think it's a leap of logic that the sound guys know their cues?

Are you then suggesting they have click the whole show? I guess that's possible, albeit it a bit lazy.


Eh, I probably phrased it badly, but yeah... Having click 100% of the time or 0% of the time is literally the only way I've ever seen click done by a band in a live setting.

That is my experience as well.  Monitor mix preference, whether we are talking about in-ears or stage monitors, is a very personal thing, so it is rare that someone would change it on the fly unless the musician is directing them to.  I don't see any reason that would change with a click.  I would be really surprised if it wasn't a case of everyone dialing in their preferences ahead of time in terms of when they want to hear the click and how loud, relative to the other instruments, and when it gets dialed up and down.  Then it is all programmed and there is no need to actively monitor it unless the dynamics of that particular show cause a musician to signal that he wants it altered.  That isn't lazy.  That's just common sense and how it is often done.

I'm not sure if you can program a click track to be heard by certain members at different times or not. Think about it simply. The click track is a channel of audio. Just like the guitar ends up being a channel of audio. So it would be pretty tricky (actually I'm not sure how you would do it) to automate the guitar channel in, let's say JR's in-ear to mute in a specific section of a specific song. That's basically the equivalent of what we are discussing with the click. I'm sure it's possible, but I have no clue how it would be done, and I've been running sound and playing out in bands for years.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Adami on June 09, 2016, 10:18:53 AM
Actually, it's extremely easy. You create aux sends to each headphone anyway (assuming they have different mixes) and then automate the mutes or whatever. Doing the entire show will take maybe a few hours. You do it once and never have to worry about it again. The lighting alone is 100x more complicated (hyperbole).

Also, since the band obviously hears a click when there's no drums, then you're suggesting they're hearing the click 100% of the time. Which is cool, but I am pretty sure I read that this isn't the case, but I don't really care.

Either way, acting like some basic automation is impossible when they're already doing it on a much larger scale is just odd. It's not difficult. I can personally do it in a few hours at most.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on June 09, 2016, 10:28:21 AM
That is my experience as well.  Monitor mix preference, whether we are talking about in-ears or stage monitors, is a very personal thing, so it is rare that someone would change it on the fly unless the musician is directing them to.  I don't see any reason that would change with a click.  I would be really surprised if it wasn't a case of everyone dialing in their preferences ahead of time in terms of when they want to hear the click and how loud, relative to the other instruments, and when it gets dialed up and down.  Then it is all programmed and there is no need to actively monitor it unless the dynamics of that particular show cause a musician to signal that he wants it altered.  That isn't lazy.  That's just common sense and how it is often done.

I'm not sure if you can program a click track to be heard by certain members at different times or not. Think about it simply. The click track is a channel of audio. Just like the guitar ends up being a channel of audio. So it would be pretty tricky (actually I'm not sure how you would do it) to automate the guitar channel in, let's say JR's in-ear to mute in a specific section of a specific song. That's basically the equivalent of what we are discussing with the click. I'm sure it's possible, but I have no clue how it would be done, and I've been running sound and playing out in bands for years.

Yes, but modern mixing boards have pre-sets that you can program.  When the band is running through the set during rehearsal, they can dial in their settings so that that doesn't have to be done manually for the entire show.  If there are moments where a bandmember does not want/need the click and finds it distracting, it is still running of course, but that channel is muted or turned down in their mix, and then that can be programmed so it is done automatically during the actual shows.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 09, 2016, 10:58:06 AM
Actually, it's extremely easy. You create aux sends to each headphone anyway (assuming they have different mixes) and then automate the mutes or whatever. Doing the entire show will take maybe a few hours. You do it once and never have to worry about it again. The lighting alone is 100x more complicated (hyperbole).

Also, since the band obviously hears a click when there's no drums, then you're suggesting they're hearing the click 100% of the time. Which is cool, but I am pretty sure I read that this isn't the case, but I don't really care.

Either way, acting like some basic automation is impossible when they're already doing it on a much larger scale is just odd. It's not difficult. I can personally do it in a few hours at most.

Maybe I need to go back and reread what I posted, but I'm pretty sure I said I wasn't sure if you could automate the click like that. I think I also said that I'm sure its possible but I don't know how to do it. None of that equals me saying its "impossible".  :lol

Anyway sounds like it could definitely be done based on what you posted, so maybe that's how they do it!
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Adami on June 09, 2016, 11:24:29 AM
Actually, it's extremely easy. You create aux sends to each headphone anyway (assuming they have different mixes) and then automate the mutes or whatever. Doing the entire show will take maybe a few hours. You do it once and never have to worry about it again. The lighting alone is 100x more complicated (hyperbole).

Also, since the band obviously hears a click when there's no drums, then you're suggesting they're hearing the click 100% of the time. Which is cool, but I am pretty sure I read that this isn't the case, but I don't really care.

Either way, acting like some basic automation is impossible when they're already doing it on a much larger scale is just odd. It's not difficult. I can personally do it in a few hours at most.

Maybe I need to go back and reread what I posted, but I'm pretty sure I said I wasn't sure if you could automate the click like that. I think I also said that I'm sure its possible but I don't know how to do it. None of that equals me saying its "impossible".  :lol

Anyway sounds like it could definitely be done based on what you posted, so maybe that's how they do it!

You calling me crazy? You saying I'm reading things that aren't there? You saying I need to be permanently institutionalized because of my loose grip on reality? Ugh, you sound just like that judge.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 09, 2016, 11:28:35 AM
 :lol

Honestly though, it would be cool for someone to ask the band specifics about this in an interview. I love hearing about that kinda behind the scenes type stuff.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: TAC on June 10, 2016, 02:56:54 PM

Honestly though, it would be cool for someone to ask the band specifics about this in an interview. I love hearing about that kinda behind the scenes type stuff.

So true. It's not even judgmental, whether anyone likes it or not. I'd just be interested in howitallworks.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Thoughtspart3 on October 09, 2016, 08:22:57 PM
I did not have any problem with the show.  Because I knew what to expect and what the band was shooting for I think I was really able to enjoy it.  I was at the Wilkes Barre show which had a fun thing happen at the end.  You can read about it in that thread.  I agree with some of the weakness mentioned and feel the live show was hampered a bit by the pacing of the story and the music.  However it was a different type of show.  I do think they could have crafted it differently at points to eliminate some of the problems for the live shows.

I too wished they had played some of their old stuff or done a special epilogue for the concert.  My guess is this biggest thing hurting people going to multiple shows which would help with the ones that are so close together. 

However, they might still be making money even though they don't sell out some of these venues.  Do they have to sell out to turn a profit?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: DreamerTV on October 10, 2016, 07:12:16 AM
I did not have any problem with the show.  Because I knew what to expect and what the band was shooting for I think I was really able to enjoy it.  I was at the Wilkes Barre show which had a fun thing happen at the end.  You can read about it in that thread.  I agree with some of the weakness mentioned and feel the live show was hampered a bit by the pacing of the story and the music.  However it was a different type of show.  I do think they could have crafted it differently at points to eliminate some of the problems for the live shows.

I too wished they had played some of their old stuff or done a special epilogue for the concert.  My guess is this biggest thing hurting people going to multiple shows which would help with the ones that are so close together. 

However, they might still be making money even though they don't sell out some of these venues.  Do they have to sell out to turn a profit?

No they don't.
And actually they've already made money as promoters pay in advance to guaratee DT to come down to them. It's up to promoters to get people to the show, although DT have all the interests for the show to go well (it depends on the agreement if DT take a percentage on the tickets or not) as if not it may prevent to go back there again.
By this, you could think they were actually really good and smart to sell this second leg to promoters, even more if they were aware, and i think they were, it wasn't going to be all that succesfull.
Concerning the current state of the situation, they've already taken the best they could. Will this affect their future, at least in the US? Maybe, but you know they're big enough as a band they can turn things around with a better album promotion (this was awful) and better people behind them (please someone take a look at their Instagram account and tell me what the fuck have to do their last post with DT - my two cent is that the guy behing their account is managing differents clients and totally screwed up - but goddamnit it's two fucking days!!!!)
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Nick on October 14, 2016, 11:34:47 AM
My biggest complaint is easy, they went into making this a Broadway style production, and kicked in some extra budget to do so, but failed miserably in the execution.

What didn't they do? They certainly didn't bring extra vocalists on tour to help separate the parts and make it more like a story. Why did they do? They kept everyone from taking photos and videos.

What didn't they do? Being along some actors to help move the story forward. What did they do? Kept everyone in their seat if possible.

What didn't they do? Have a video and light show that actually helped with the story. What didn't they do? They had an AMAZING light and graphic show, but it was just horrible for this tour. On the Train of Thought tour or Systematic Chaos tours it would have been out of this world, but it wasn't what this tour needed.

Had they actually used their live show to increase value in the story through singers, actors, or videos, it would have naturally come across as a more Broadway like story, and things like no photos, staying in seats, etc, would have come across way more naturally.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Mosh on October 14, 2016, 11:50:54 AM
Yep, we got the stiffness and obnoxious security of a Broadway show without the level of quality and spectacle you would expect from one.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Tick on October 20, 2016, 07:23:53 AM
My biggest complaint is easy, they went into making this a Broadway style production, and kicked in some extra budget to do so, but failed miserably in the execution.

What didn't they do? They certainly didn't bring extra vocalists on tour to help separate the parts and make it more like a story. Why did they do? They kept everyone from taking photos and videos.

What didn't they do? Being along some actors to help move the story forward. What did they do? Kept everyone in their seat if possible.

What didn't they do? Have a video and light show that actually helped with the story. What didn't they do? They had an AMAZING light and graphic show, but it was just horrible for this tour. On the Train of Thought tour or Systematic Chaos tours it would have been out of this world, but it wasn't what this tour needed.

Had they actually used their live show to increase value in the story through singers, actors, or videos, it would have naturally come across as a more Broadway like story, and things like no photos, staying in seats, etc, would have come across way more naturally.
Agreed. They really didn't know how to execute it since its not their forte. They needed proper guidance and didn't get it. They could have used local musicians for string instruments. I don't about actors. I think that would have been too strange on many levels. The screens could have better used to help follow the story as it unfolded by showing characters in each scene and what was taking place.
In spite of it all I still very much enjoyed it for what it was.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2016, 07:31:19 AM
Let me first say that the concert last night was AWESOME.  I was in the first row and really enjoyed the show overall.  I felt like they were playing to me and only to me.  Such a cool experience.

But this is the complaint thread and I have a couple new complaints that I did not experience at the previous show I saw on this tour.

No crowd interaction from the band.  At the end of the show after the encore, the band bowed on stage and just left.  I managed to shake Petrucci's hand and I was one of the only lucky ones to have any contact with the band, but no pics thrown into the crowd, no drum sticks, no one else besides JP even came close to the edge of the stage.  After the left and security started telling people to leave, I noticed the set lists were still on the floor of the stage.  I asked the roadie if I could have one of the three on the floor and got ignored and then forced out by security.  A LOT of people were complaining and bitching about the lack of even recognizing the crowd.

The lady sitting next to me also got yelled at to sit down during the first song.  She would not stop yelling about it the entire show which was annoying but she had a point.  Quite a few people came up to her to fist bump during intermission and security came over and told us that they were told not allowed to stand at all and also no pics before/during/intermission/after the show.  Which was not the situation at RCMH.  The security did say that it would be cool if we stood at the end cause we warned the security that the band will expect it.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: axeman90210 on October 20, 2016, 09:15:56 AM
Yeah, I got hounded for taking a picture of the stage before the band even came out, and the same guy (who also was the one who told that woman to sit down) almost ran me over because some guy was taking pictures/video during Our New World.

Great show though. Labrie mostly sounded good to really good, with one or two off moments. Petrucci had an extended solo towards the end that brought everyone to their feet. I always forget it until I see them live, but John Myung is a bad, bad man :hefdaddy

Side note, cram, I did a double take when I first looked over and saw that woman you were next to because from behind her hair looked a lot like Max Portnoy's :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: As I Am on October 20, 2016, 09:29:01 AM
To those who went to the Newark show, is it true that there were less than 500 people in the audience? :( A buddy of mine went (scalped a 3rd row ticket for $10) and said it was embarrassingly empty. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2016, 09:38:24 AM
Side note, cram, I did a double take when I first looked over and saw that woman you were next to because from behind her hair looked a lot like Max Portnoy's :lol

 :lol

To those who went to the Newark show, is it true that there were less than 500 people in the audience? :( A buddy of mine went (scalped a 3rd row ticket for $10) and said it was embarrassingly empty. :facepalm:

Possibly.  It was not close to being full and the baclonies (all 5 of them) were mostly empty.  The band looked completely uninterested as well.  However, as I said, I think it was up there as one of my favorite DT concerts out of the 12 or so I've gone to.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on October 20, 2016, 09:50:17 AM
All the had to do was play A Change of Seasons as an encore.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: El Barto on October 20, 2016, 09:55:56 AM
Let me first say that the concert last night was AWESOME.  I was in the first row and really enjoyed the show overall.  I felt like they were playing to me and only to me.  Such a cool experience.

But this is the complaint thread and I have a couple new complaints that I did not experience at the previous show I saw on this tour.

No crowd interaction from the band.  At the end of the show after the encore, the band bowed on stage and just left.  I managed to shake Petrucci's hand and I was one of the only lucky ones to have any contact with the band, but no pics thrown into the crowd, no drum sticks, no one else besides JP even came close to the edge of the stage.  After the left and security started telling people to leave, I noticed the set lists were still on the floor of the stage.  I asked the roadie if I could have one of the three on the floor and got ignored and then forced out by security.  A LOT of people were complaining and bitching about the lack of even recognizing the crowd.

The lady sitting next to me also got yelled at to sit down during the first song.  She would not stop yelling about it the entire show which was annoying but she had a point.  Quite a few people came up to her to fist bump during intermission and security came over and told us that they were told not allowed to stand at all and also no pics before/during/intermission/after the show.  Which was not the situation at RCMH.  The security did say that it would be cool if we stood at the end cause we warned the security that the band will expect it.
Setlists? What did it say, "SAME AS LAST NIGHT."?

There was actually a commotion about people standing in Wallingford. I was somewhat taken aback by it. I'd prefer to sit, myself, but I defend anybody's right to stand at a concert. I've never seen people so aggravated about it, though.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2016, 09:59:48 AM
Setlists? What did it say, "SAME AS LAST NIGHT."?

 :lol yea I find it odd they needed setlists laid out as well, but even more odd that it seems they must re-use them or something (they were laminated and taped pretty well to the floor).  That roadie gave me the dirtiest look and ignore for asking for it. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 20, 2016, 11:48:07 AM
Setlists? What did it say, "SAME AS LAST NIGHT."?

 :lol yea I find it odd they needed setlists laid out as well, but even more odd that it seems they must re-use them or something (they were laminated and taped pretty well to the floor).  That roadie gave me the dirtiest look and ignore for asking for it. 

When I went to Denver in May, the "setlist" I got was just notes, count ins, when to come in, for certain songs.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: El Barto on October 20, 2016, 11:52:48 AM
Not sure why that wouldn't be incorporated into the click. It's not like they're changing anything.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 20, 2016, 11:57:27 AM
Not sure why that wouldn't be incorporated into the click. It's not like they're changing anything.

It's more for the show part. Let me find it.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2016, 12:01:37 PM
Not sure why that wouldn't be incorporated into the click. It's not like they're changing anything.

Not only that, but what show # is it now?  They've been doing the show for awhile, and from watching them up close and seeing their facial expressions, it seems they can do the show for the most part with their eyes shut from experience.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on October 20, 2016, 12:13:34 PM
Maybe they're disappointed with the fan turnout on this leg of the tour and they're just about ready for a break.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 20, 2016, 12:23:23 PM
Maybe they're disappointed with the fan turnout on this leg of the tour and they're just about ready for a break.

That would be my guess. The band would probably be much more enthusiastic to play to a packed house rather than a half-full room. Not making excuses for them, just saying.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2016, 12:28:03 PM
Maybe they're disappointed with the fan turnout on this leg of the tour and they're just about ready for a break.

That would be my guess. The band would probably be much more enthusiastic to play to a packed house rather than a half-full room. Not making excuses for them, just saying.

Agreed as well.  It seemed the band finally showed some life at the end when they asked the crowd to stand at the end.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on October 20, 2016, 12:29:22 PM
Maybe they're disappointed with the fan turnout on this leg of the tour and they're just about ready for a break.

That would be my guess. The band would probably be much more enthusiastic to play to a packed house rather than a half-full room. Not making excuses for them, just saying.

Agreed as well.  It seemed the band finally showed some life at the end when they asked the crowd to stand at the end.

I don't think you're making excuses for them. It's just what it is.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Tick on October 20, 2016, 03:21:45 PM
Maybe they're disappointed with the fan turnout on this leg of the tour and they're just about ready for a break.

That would be my guess. The band would probably be much more enthusiastic to play to a packed house rather than a half-full room. Not making excuses for them, just saying.
I think an extra half hour of music (non Astonishing) would have pleased audiences a bit more.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 21, 2016, 06:51:07 AM
I think an extra half hour of music (non Astonishing) would have pleased audiences a bit more.

I don't have an issue with the first US leg of this tour being TA only and nothing else. The band felt like they wanted to promote the album in this way, I think it makes sense to do it as a stand-alone performance, and attendance seemed to be pretty good for the first leg (the show I was at was sold out).

Where I think they made the mistake was doing a second leg without changing anything up, hitting a lot of small markets. The demand just isn't going to be there for that. I could have driven about 2 hours to see them on the second leg and didn't. Usually, I would, but I already saw the show on the first leg, loved it but I'm good. Now if they were playing in my city, I'd probably go to support the band and because I really do like TA a lot, but travel to see the same show again? No thanks. It's already been posted a couple times but it's worth posting again. Even if they just added an encore, something like A Change of Seasons, I'd be in.  I'd travel over 2 hours to the middle of nowhere Ohio and see the show again just to see that rarity played.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: As I Am on October 21, 2016, 09:34:46 AM
^^^Exactly this. They should have kept TA to a select amount of dates to make it special. Then do a second leg, with the first half a TA "suite" and then after intermission, come back with a knock out set list and encore. I know I probably would have hit a couple of shows with that format for sure.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on October 21, 2016, 09:40:11 AM
^^^Exactly this. They should have kept TA to a select amount of dates to make it special. Then do a second leg, with the first half a TA "suite" and then after intermission, come back with a knock out set list and encore. I know I probably would have hit a couple of shows with that format for sure.

The thing with this too is that they could have kept the video show for this format as well.  The first half of the set already had the videos and the second half could have just been basic videos (stock footage from songs that had visuals in the past) or just added basic colors to go along with them to at least be able to pay off the investment made in the stage show... which IMO is a large reason to do the 2nd leg.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: El Barto on October 21, 2016, 10:03:23 AM
Christ, if they were relying on a second leg to recoup the initial investment they're really SOL&JWF. At the same time, I didn't think the stage show was much more than what they were already touring with.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on October 21, 2016, 11:08:49 AM
Christ, if they were relying on a second leg to recoup the initial investment they're really SOL&JWF. At the same time, I didn't think the stage show was much more than what they were already touring with.

That was just my guess, so don't take it as truth or anything cause I don't know shit.  Just the way I feel about how the band stated they invested much into the tour.  But agreed, the end result wasn't much more than what they toured with from DT12.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 21, 2016, 11:27:45 AM
Christ, if they were relying on a second leg to recoup the initial investment they're really SOL&JWF. At the same time, I didn't think the stage show was much more than what they were already touring with.

That was just my guess, so don't take it as truth or anything cause I don't know shit.  Just the way I feel about how the band stated they invested much into the tour.  But agreed, the end result wasn't much more than what they toured with from DT12.

I agree the end result wasn't that far off of the DT12 tour, which I think was a really good show. But, I'd assume the upfront costs for this production were more, hiring that video company from Canada, doing all those animations, that stuff ain't cheap.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on October 27, 2016, 06:04:10 PM
Honestly, it still felt cheap though. That intro voice was tacky as hell, and many of the animations were obviously just people jumping around in front of a green screen. I felt at the very least there should have been a NOMAC or two suspended from the ceiling.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 28, 2016, 09:50:59 AM
Honestly, it still felt cheap though. That intro voice was tacky as hell, and many of the animations were obviously just people jumping around in front of a green screen. I felt at the very least there should have been a NOMAC or two suspended from the ceiling.

Well, that's all on you and your expectations for the live show.

I honestly didn't know what to expect and those shadow people were a nice touch.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on October 28, 2016, 12:05:51 PM
Honestly, it still felt cheap though. That intro voice was tacky as hell, and many of the animations were obviously just people jumping around in front of a green screen. I felt at the very least there should have been a NOMAC or two suspended from the ceiling.

Well, that's all on you and your expectations for the live show.

I honestly didn't know what to expect and those shadow people were a nice touch.

I disagree.  DT has advertised this as a special experience with focus on the visuals.  The band said it would be special hence the expectations. The end result was nothing more special than what a lot of other bands are doing now.  I thought they were great overall, but still not up to the expectations that DT set in their promotion for the tour.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on October 28, 2016, 12:27:12 PM
Honestly, it still felt cheap though. That intro voice was tacky as hell, and many of the animations were obviously just people jumping around in front of a green screen. I felt at the very least there should have been a NOMAC or two suspended from the ceiling.

Well, that's all on you and your expectations for the live show.

I honestly didn't know what to expect and those shadow people were a nice touch.

I disagree.  DT has advertised this as a special experience with focus on the visuals.  The band said it would be special hence the expectations. The end result was nothing more special than what a lot of other bands are doing now.  I thought they were great overall, but still not up to the expectations that DT set in their promotion for the tour.

I loved the screen setup on this tour. It conveyed the story pretty well, and it looked dope when it was just doing effects. I hope they keep it. Early on, the way the band was describing the show and the stage, they made it sound like there'd be sets and scenery changes. Instead all we got was two lampposts and some flags.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on October 28, 2016, 01:07:27 PM
It's definitely odd. They make a big deal out of only playing in theaters, restricting cell phone use etc etc, and then it's just a metal concert with a few screens. Not even a flyer was handed out to explain the plot.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on October 28, 2016, 01:14:14 PM
It's definitely odd. They make a big deal out of only playing in theaters, restricting cell phone use etc etc, and then it's just a metal concert with a few screens. Not even a flyer was handed out to explain the plot.

I received one at every show I went to. It gave a bio on all the characters and a description of the story as a whole.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on October 28, 2016, 01:19:49 PM
Well that sucks. I for one did not get one in Boston.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on October 28, 2016, 01:21:34 PM
Well that sucks. I for one did not get one in Boston.

You want one? I think I have a spare. I'll mail it to you.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on October 28, 2016, 01:23:49 PM
Well that sucks. I for one did not get one in Boston.

Maybe I missed it, but I dont recall seeing these in NJ last week, but I did get one from RCMH on the last leg.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on October 28, 2016, 01:24:40 PM
Well that sucks. I for one did not get one in Boston.

Maybe I missed it, but I dont recall seeing these in NJ last week, but I did get one from RCMH on the last leg.

Weird. My girlfriend and I each got one at the Port Chester show just a few days later.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on October 28, 2016, 03:06:04 PM
I loved the screen setup on this tour. It conveyed the story pretty well, and it looked dope when it was just doing effects. I hope they keep it.

I'm not sure they can.  I could be mistaken, but I got the impression that the setup belongs to the production company they contracted with.  Even though the stuff was customized for this tour, if it belongs to the production company, they would likely keep it and repurpose it after the tour is over.  But, again, I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on October 28, 2016, 03:13:16 PM
I loved the screen setup on this tour. It conveyed the story pretty well, and it looked dope when it was just doing effects. I hope they keep it.

I'm not sure they can.  I could be mistaken, but I got the impression that the setup belongs to the production company they contracted with.  Even though the stuff was customized for this tour, if it belongs to the production company, they would likely keep it and repurpose it after the tour is over.  But, again, I could be wrong.

Yea Im sure that is the case with all touring acts, but they could always contract it back out to reuse on the next tour I'd imagine and then re-use the same visuals for TA songs they would perform on said tour and create new ones for whatever else they play.

To be honest though, I think I like the big single screen from the DT12 tour better.  Without the gaps it shows a fuller picture.  However, the smaller screens below the drum kit and along the sides were nice.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Mosh on October 29, 2016, 12:14:32 AM
Visually speaking, I thought DT12 was a much better show.
Honestly, it still felt cheap though. That intro voice was tacky as hell, and many of the animations were obviously just people jumping around in front of a green screen. I felt at the very least there should have been a NOMAC or two suspended from the ceiling.

Well, that's all on you and your expectations for the live show.

I honestly didn't know what to expect and those shadow people were a nice touch.

Tired of these comments going around. Petrucci compared this tour to The Wall. They created most of the hype.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on October 29, 2016, 02:37:24 PM
I had never even heard of JP's comment regarding that, but the official communications left no doubt that that was indeed what it was supposed to be like. To quote directly from dt.net:

" will see the pioneering group performing their widely acclaimed double concept album The Astonishing in immersive and interactive settings for a unique and unparalleled live experience"
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: SystematicThought on October 29, 2016, 05:43:05 PM
If I recall, there was an interview with the company that did the visuals that said the scenery change and 3D projection that were advertised ended up being dropped due to time.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Shooters1221 on October 31, 2016, 09:20:35 AM
Well that sucks. I for one did not get one in Boston.

Maybe I missed it, but I dont recall seeing these in NJ last week, but I did get one from RCMH on the last leg.

Weird. My girlfriend and I each got one at the Port Chester show just a few days later.

WOW, if you're talking about those small thin playbill type pamphlets then yes I went to 2 shows and they handed them out going in, AND, there were extras laying out on the table on the way out at both shows. I grabbed like 5  or 10 of them that are actually still in my car. They are not really that big of a deal, pretty generic.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Implode on October 31, 2016, 09:38:00 AM
I had never even heard of JP's comment regarding that, but the official communications left no doubt that that was indeed what it was supposed to be like. To quote directly from dt.net:

" will see the pioneering group performing their widely acclaimed double concept album The Astonishing in immersive and interactive settings for a unique and unparalleled live experience"

I personally wouldn't critique DT too much for that, because I hear that kind of spiel for every act. Like last year when Haken first toured in the US, the description of VIP tickets said they included "unprecedented access," and it ended up just being 30 minute early entry and a really low quality/res upscaled poster. :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on October 31, 2016, 09:45:30 AM
Oh, trust me, usually I dismiss this stuff, since they say something of that kind for every album (and every band does that). "This is our best album yet!".

That said, TA I felt was different in that regard, and it made sense since TA was meant to be this Magnum Opus, their The Wall equivalent.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 31, 2016, 11:25:41 AM
Maybe his The Wall reference was because it's a double album concept, and Pink Floyd only played that album during its tour. Hence what they also did.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on October 31, 2016, 12:26:40 PM
I had never even heard of JP's comment regarding that, but the official communications left no doubt that that was indeed what it was supposed to be like. To quote directly from dt.net:

" will see the pioneering group performing their widely acclaimed double concept album The Astonishing in immersive and interactive settings for a unique and unparalleled live experience"

I personally wouldn't critique DT too much for that, because I hear that kind of spiel for every act. Like last year when Haken first toured in the US, the description of VIP tickets said they included "unprecedented access," and it ended up just being 30 minute early entry and a really low quality/res upscaled poster. :lol

Yeah, I'm not too sure what people are bitching about. It's called advertising. What did they really expect from DT's budget? It's like when any band says, "this is going to be our best album yet", and you don't like it so you blame the band for hyping it, forgetting there are tens of thousands of other people who probably loved it.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 01, 2016, 10:43:41 AM
I had never even heard of JP's comment regarding that, but the official communications left no doubt that that was indeed what it was supposed to be like. To quote directly from dt.net:

" will see the pioneering group performing their widely acclaimed double concept album The Astonishing in immersive and interactive settings for a unique and unparalleled live experience"

I personally wouldn't critique DT too much for that, because I hear that kind of spiel for every act. Like last year when Haken first toured in the US, the description of VIP tickets said they included "unprecedented access," and it ended up just being 30 minute early entry and a really low quality/res upscaled poster. :lol

Yeah, I'm not too sure what people are bitching about. It's called advertising. What did they really expect from DT's budget? It's like when any band says, "this is going to be our best album yet", and you don't like it so you blame the band for hyping it, forgetting there are tens of thousands of other people who probably loved it.

My point exactly. Of course, it's not the band that puts out the ads for the show.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Adami on November 01, 2016, 11:11:11 AM
But they didn't say "best tour yet". They gave rather specific expectations.

If they said "our most complex, intricate album yet" and then every song was a 4 chord pop tune, that would be more of a similar comparison.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 01, 2016, 01:09:25 PM
I mean, can someone run by me what part of the concert was immersive, and particularly which one was interactive? (I sincerely hope that sad screenshot device in the lobby wasn't the interactive part)
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on November 01, 2016, 01:13:01 PM
I mean, can someone run by me what part of the concert was immersive, and particularly which one was interactive? (I sincerely hope that sad screenshot device in the lobby wasn't the interactive part)

I thought the screens were pretty immersive, TBH. The interaction element was obviously the band playing the next song only after the audience clapped for the previous one.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 01, 2016, 01:18:31 PM
:lol


The screens, I guess every band's performance is immersive now.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 01, 2016, 01:28:28 PM
Yea while I enjoyed the screen show, I'm not sure what is "immersive" about it and this show was by far the least amount of "interaction" from anything with the band and crowd. 

I think the most immersive and interactive part was actually probably the NOMAC tracks.  With the huge bass, you could almost feel like they were there.  Maybe that counts?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 01, 2016, 02:14:59 PM
The impression I get is that there is a huge discrepancy between what JP had in mind for the album, and what actually ended up being implemented. I mean, there was supposed to be a smartphone game, a novelization, an interactive concert, but it looks that spread them and RR so thinly that it all kinda ended up being done to only varying degrees.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 01, 2016, 02:26:31 PM
I agree with that impression.  Also makes me wonder if there will be any more legs of this tour and a DVD due to that (and lack of enthusiasm from the fans).
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 01, 2016, 10:06:44 PM
I don't think there will. The way it looks they're losing a lot of money with this second leg, and they're not gonna stick their neck out even more with anything related to TA. The smartphone game as an example is pretty dead I assume.
So, my guess is they will finish the second leg, suck up the loss and regroup. Maybe wait some time, then come back with a new album and a normal concert that mixes new material and old stuff.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on November 02, 2016, 05:20:51 AM
I agree with that impression.  Also makes me wonder if there will be any more legs of this tour and a DVD due to that (and lack of enthusiasm from the fans).

I think this will be the end of the tour. I'm sure they're already putting together some ideas of what to do for the next album. Unless they kept it a secret, I don't know when they would have recorded any of the shows for a possible Blu-ray release.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 02, 2016, 07:20:08 AM
I agree with that impression.  Also makes me wonder if there will be any more legs of this tour and a DVD due to that (and lack of enthusiasm from the fans).

I think this will be the end of the tour. I'm sure they're already putting together some ideas of what to do for the next album. Unless they kept it a secret, I don't know when they would have recorded any of the shows for a possible Blu-ray release.

They need to plan one last show in London with the LSO and other guests for a BlueRay release. I would be there in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on November 02, 2016, 07:27:05 AM
I don't think there will. The way it looks they're losing a lot of money with this second leg, and they're not gonna stick their neck out even more with anything related to TA. The smartphone game as an example is pretty dead I assume.


Didn't one of the lead developers of that game die in a motorcycle wreck?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on November 02, 2016, 07:27:56 AM
They need to plan one last show in London with the LSO and other guests for a BlueRay release. I would be there in a heartbeat.

Yeah, when the tour ends, there's no reason they can't pump up a final performance for a bluray release. If they announce an orchestra and maybe special guests, pretty much anywhere in the world will most likely sell out.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: TAC on November 02, 2016, 07:31:26 AM
Not that in and of itself, an orchestra being part of TA Live wouldn't be a bad thing, but that would make 3 official live releases with an orchestra. Enough already. And they really didn't use the live recording in Boston anyway.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 02, 2016, 08:19:51 AM
Not that in and of itself, an orchestra being part of TA Live wouldn't be a bad thing, but that would make 3 official live releases with an orchestra. Enough already. And they really didn't use the live recording in Boston anyway.

I don't like this reason, because for me, there is never enough  :biggrin:

Also, if they did announce such a concert, I would do what I could to make it there.  I just hope for such a show they would let the crowd stand and get into it a bit more, I'd be fine with a no phone policy still for such a show though.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 02, 2016, 08:55:15 AM
Not that in and of itself, an orchestra being part of TA Live wouldn't be a bad thing, but that would make 3 official live releases with an orchestra. Enough already. And they really didn't use the live recording in Boston anyway.

That was SUPER disappointing. They record a concert with an orchestra, and then overdub it.
Agree with the overall sentiment though. Orchestras, frankly, are a bit of a copout for bands that don't know what to do else.

I don't think there will. The way it looks they're losing a lot of money with this second leg, and they're not gonna stick their neck out even more with anything related to TA. The smartphone game as an example is pretty dead I assume.


Didn't one of the lead developers of that game die in a motorcycle wreck?

Their sound designer I think, and they said on their page that they were going to continue. I don't think that happened though.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Mosh on November 02, 2016, 10:36:02 AM
With any other band, I'd probably agree that two albums with an orchestra are more than enough, but I can make an exception for DT because the orchestrations are often already part of the original recordings, rather than being quickly put together for a one off event. The Astonishing in particular has a lot of cool orchestral stuff going on and it would be a missed opportunity not to perform with an orchestra.

Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on November 03, 2016, 05:37:24 AM
Not that in and of itself, an orchestra being part of TA Live wouldn't be a bad thing, but that would make 3 official live releases with an orchestra. Enough already. And they really didn't use the live recording in Boston anyway.

You're exactly right. If anything, I would love one show with guest vocalists and have that be the official release. You don't need an orchestra when you have Jordan. :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 03, 2016, 07:08:31 AM
Yeah, guest vocalists would be the way to go, not an orchestra. The Lzzy Hale version showed the potential of a female vocalist in parts.

Heck, maybe even a wardrobe change for James between songs. That's another one of those low-hanging fruits they missed. It's supposed to be immersive, but the singer wears a plain metal outfit the whole show. Any of the guys really.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: goo-goo on November 03, 2016, 07:58:09 AM
I don't think there will. The way it looks they're losing a lot of money with this second leg, and they're not gonna stick their neck out even more with anything related to TA. The smartphone game as an example is pretty dead I assume.
So, my guess is they will finish the second leg, suck up the loss and regroup. Maybe wait some time, then come back with a new album and a normal concert that mixes new material and old stuff.

It will be interesting to see what their next touring plans is. I'm surprised there's no European 2nd leg. That's where they make most of their money and tour over there a lot. Maybe they are planning a "selections of TA" with some of the songs from their back catalog. Or as you said, regroup and either go into studio/recording mode and start the next touring cycle as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 03, 2016, 08:00:03 AM
Yeah, guest vocalists would be the way to go, not an orchestra. The Lzzy Hale version showed the potential of a female vocalist in parts.

Heck, maybe even a wardrobe change for James between songs. That's another one of those low-hanging fruits they missed. It's supposed to be immersive, but the singer wears a plain metal outfit the whole show. Any of the guys really.

Here's the thing with guest vocals and the band dressing in character... that goes against the visuals which show all of the characters.  It would be weird seeing a Faythe on the screen dancing to her music player while also seeing a person playing Faythe on stage and singing it.  I'm not sure the band ever intended to have live singers due to the use of the visuals showing the story/characters.

Someone in the DVD thread mentioned it would be cooler if they did something like The Theater Equation.  I think that would require removing the screens and actually having a live set though to really work.  Or Change the visuals so it's only scenery not the characters themselves.

Having said all of that the album performed live with an orchestra, having been recorded with an orchestra, is really the best way to shoot it live without having to put more effort into the show since it doesn't require anything different from the current live show.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 03, 2016, 08:31:01 AM
It will be interesting to see what their next touring plans is. I'm surprised there's no European 2nd leg. That's where they make most of their money and tour over there a lot. Maybe they are planning a "selections of TA" with some of the songs from their back catalog. Or as you said, regroup and either go into studio/recording mode and start the next touring cycle as soon as possible.

Europe isn't the sure-fire place for DT anymore either. My brother saw them for DT12 on the second leg in Germany, and he said the attendance was really, really sad.

Here's the thing with guest vocals and the band dressing in character... that goes against the visuals which show all of the characters.  It would be weird seeing a Faythe on the screen dancing to her music player while also seeing a person playing Faythe on stage and singing it.  I'm not sure the band ever intended to have live singers due to the use of the visuals showing the story/characters.

I can see that ... but at the very least it would have been good to dress "in style" of the album. Checkout out this (https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/wOePKlGwZeHPOVh0rbkIeA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/https://41.media.tumblr.com/73a3b46407c5ed7bb9229335df668b17/tumblr_inline_o3sr3jTwWU1tclbiu_1280.jpg) picture, where it's just some band T-shirt. That kind of band appearance does not help with any immersiveness for sure.
I don't know. While I feel some factors were certainly outside of DT's control, their own commitment to the presentation of TA left much to be desired too. It felt like they treated it like any old concert.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: axeman90210 on November 03, 2016, 09:15:26 AM
I kind of hope that they do something similar to when Iron Maiden followed up the AMOLAD tour (where they played the whole new album front to back) with the Somewhere Back in Time tour. Maybe a set of material up through SFAM or Six Degrees. Don't see it happening though, both due to Mangini and because they gave Awake and SFAM some anniversary attention on the DT12 tour.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Mosh on November 03, 2016, 09:23:15 AM
DT don't really need to go the Maiden route of alternating between classic focused and new album focused tours though. The evening with format is enough to represent all eras of the band.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: axeman90210 on November 03, 2016, 10:25:19 AM
I don't think they need to do it from a creative standpoint, but I bet that if they announced such a tour they'd get a pretty good turnout and it might help rebuild some good will with promoters after the lackluster turnout for the second Astonishing leg. Also, as someone whose top five DT releases all fall in that period I think it's a good idea for purely selfish reasons :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 03, 2016, 12:14:29 PM
I think that if DT took a little more time off, and then, before releasing another album, announce an "Evening With" tour for next summer, they would make a killing.

With no album to support, they could just do a regular concert, drawing material from any/all of their albums, with fans not knowing the setlist ahead of time.

THEN release their next album, then a supporting tour thereafter.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: TAC on November 03, 2016, 05:44:59 PM
Yeah, guest vocalists would be the way to go, not an orchestra. The Lzzy Hale Chego version showed the potential of a female vocalist in parts.

 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 04, 2016, 06:45:57 AM
I think that if DT took a little more time off, and then, before releasing another album, announce an "Evening With" tour for next summer, they would make a killing.

With no album to support, they could just do a regular concert, drawing material from any/all of their albums, with fans not knowing the setlist ahead of time.

THEN release their next album, then a supporting tour thereafter.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 04, 2016, 11:11:28 AM
Yeah, guest vocalists would be the way to go, not an orchestra. The Lzzy Hale Chego version showed the potential of a female vocalist in parts.

True true. That version was far superior to the Lzzy Hale version.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 04, 2016, 02:33:46 PM
On a side note, I wonder whether the "no phone" enforcement, and the resulting lack of YT videos from the show, actually hurt attendance. I could see people who would have been on the fence for the first leg, after watching some online videos, saying "I should watch that live".
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: TAC on November 04, 2016, 03:37:40 PM
That's a great point Rumbo. Perhaps they were trying to make it more mysterious or something, but YT is like running a free commercial. They may have been a bit shortsighted.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: KevShmev on November 04, 2016, 04:10:00 PM
On a side note, I wonder whether the "no phone" enforcement, and the resulting lack of YT videos from the show, actually hurt attendance. I could see people who would have been on the fence for the first leg, after watching some online videos, saying "I should watch that live".

You might be on to something there.  While I find people recording too much at concerts annoying, those videos instantly going up on YT is free and easy promotion for the band.  I mean, what music fan doesn't check out stuff on YT?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Mosh on November 04, 2016, 10:05:02 PM
I dunno, I haven't had trouble finding footage from the tour on youtube. I remember looking at stuff before seeing them and this was early into the first US leg, there has to be more stuff now.

Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 06, 2016, 03:36:47 PM
Compared to previous tours it's only a tiny fraction. What makes matters worse, the only full show (Hannover, Germany) has a really tired James who is flat almost the entire time. Were there more recording, I'm sure a better show would rise to the top of YT. The Hannover show has 100k views, which means 100,000 people have the impression that that's James's vocal performance these days.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: MasterLomaxus on November 07, 2016, 09:05:27 AM
Security was very strict about no pictures last night in St. Louis.  I think some guy got kicked out for it, or at least it looked that way.  In fairness, it was posted everywhere that no pictures or video would be allowed, though.  I'm still not really a fan of that rule.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Implode on November 07, 2016, 09:14:36 AM
Does taking cellphone pictures/videos hurt the band or those in the audience? And does the strictly enforcing a rule against them make the experience any better?

I don't think I ever noticed anything different when I saw them.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Logain Ablar on November 07, 2016, 09:20:50 AM
Just posted on the DT youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE8pFURwYrA

Looks like they are adding some stuff to the setlist..
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on November 07, 2016, 09:41:44 AM
THAT is cool news.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: axeman90210 on November 07, 2016, 09:52:52 AM
Except for those of us who already had shows this tour :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 07, 2016, 09:53:31 AM
Now I think I'm for sure going to Tuscon.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 07, 2016, 09:59:01 AM
Just posted on the DT youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE8pFURwYrA

Looks like they are adding some stuff to the setlist..
Yep, just saw that! 

Pretty cool, but since this will be my first TA show, I hope the extras are exactly that: EXTRAS, added to the show, not substitutions.

But either way, we'll see, and I'll enjoy it either way.

 :metal
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 07, 2016, 10:01:21 AM
Yea, I wouldn't expect any substitutions, that just doesn't make sense.  It'll likely be the encore we all wish they did the entire tour.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 07, 2016, 10:02:49 AM
Yea, I wouldn't expect any substitutions, that just doesn't make sense.  It'll likely be the encore we all wish they did the entire tour.

Exactly. This probably should have been the approach to this entire second US leg, I'm sure it would have helped ticket sales along the way.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 07, 2016, 10:08:01 AM
Yea, I wouldn't expect any substitutions, that just doesn't make sense.  It'll likely be the encore we all wish they did the entire tour.

Exactly. This probably should have been the approach to this entire second US leg, I'm sure it would have helped ticket sales along the way.

The proof is in the pudding, our own DTF members are now saying they want to go  :metal
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 07, 2016, 10:11:07 AM
The proof is in the pudding, our own DTF members are now saying they want to go  :metal

Seriously, as soon as I saw that, I checked their tour dates on their website. I thought they had already shifted out west, but I couldn't remember if they had any eastern dates left.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Logain Ablar on November 07, 2016, 11:44:01 AM
I think it's a smart move by the band. I don't live in the US, so I won't get a chance to see these shows, but I remember the end of the London show feeling a little flat.

There was no encore (not even Astonishing as the faux encore on that first night), which I knew was going to happen, but on the way out I was thinking how cool it would have been to see them come back out and launch into something like A Change Of Seasons. I would have totally loved that!
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: KevShmev on November 07, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
Security was very strict about no pictures last night in St. Louis.  I think some guy got kicked out for it, or at least it looked that way.  In fairness, it was posted everywhere that no pictures or video would be allowed, though.  I'm still not really a fan of that rule.

Some lady was kicked out right as the last song was starting last night, but she appeared pretty drunk, so no clue if it was cell phone-related or not.

But hey, the rule was made very clear by the ushers and everyone as we entered last night, so if you got kicked out, it's your own fault.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 07, 2016, 12:07:51 PM
Security was very strict about no pictures last night in St. Louis.  I think some guy got kicked out for it, or at least it looked that way.  In fairness, it was posted everywhere that no pictures or video would be allowed, though.  I'm still not really a fan of that rule.

Some lady was kicked out right as the last song was starting last night, but she appeared pretty drunk, so no clue if it was cell phone-related or not.

But hey, the rule was made very clear by the ushers and everyone as we entered last night, so if you got kicked out, it's your own fault.

I think some people, including myself at RCMH, have the mentality of, "it's the last song so if I get kicked out, oh well" That's when I went down the aisle towards the stage but I was just escorted back to my seat.  :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: El Barto on November 07, 2016, 12:37:00 PM
Security was very strict about no pictures last night in St. Louis.  I think some guy got kicked out for it, or at least it looked that way.  In fairness, it was posted everywhere that no pictures or video would be allowed, though.  I'm still not really a fan of that rule.

Some lady was kicked out right as the last song was starting last night, but she appeared pretty drunk, so no clue if it was cell phone-related or not.

But hey, the rule was made very clear by the ushers and everyone as we entered last night, so if you got kicked out, it's your own fault.

I think some people, including myself at RCMH, have the mentality of, "it's the last song so if I get kicked out, oh well" That's when I went down the aisle towards the stage but I was just escorted back to my seat.  :lol
Yeah, my concert buddies got kicked out during the final bows at the Tool show the other night. "Show's over, dickhead!"  :lol Worked out great. Security dude marched us out the side door and we were out of the building in two minutes flat. Made a big difference in beating traffic. Honestly, might try that trick again sometime.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on November 07, 2016, 12:40:18 PM
Security was very strict about no pictures last night in St. Louis.  I think some guy got kicked out for it, or at least it looked that way.  In fairness, it was posted everywhere that no pictures or video would be allowed, though.  I'm still not really a fan of that rule.

Some lady was kicked out right as the last song was starting last night, but she appeared pretty drunk, so no clue if it was cell phone-related or not.

But hey, the rule was made very clear by the ushers and everyone as we entered last night, so if you got kicked out, it's your own fault.

I think some people, including myself at RCMH, have the mentality of, "it's the last song so if I get kicked out, oh well" That's when I went down the aisle towards the stage but I was just escorted back to my seat.  :lol

And I reiterate, that poor security guard.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on November 07, 2016, 12:40:47 PM
I think it's a smart move by the band. I don't live in the US, so I won't get a chance to see these shows, but I remember the end of the London show feeling a little flat.

There was no encore (not even Astonishing as the faux encore on that first night), which I knew was going to happen, but on the way out I was thinking how cool it would have been to see them come back out and launch into something like A Change Of Seasons. I would have totally loved that!

Agreed, but I think it would have been smarter to do it earlier.  But then the problem is that, at whatever stage they would have done it, anyone who saw a show prior to that would complain that they got ripped off.

Security was very strict about no pictures last night in St. Louis.  I think some guy got kicked out for it, or at least it looked that way.  In fairness, it was posted everywhere that no pictures or video would be allowed, though.  I'm still not really a fan of that rule.

Some lady was kicked out right as the last song was starting last night, but she appeared pretty drunk, so no clue if it was cell phone-related or not.

But hey, the rule was made very clear by the ushers and everyone as we entered last night, so if you got kicked out, it's your own fault.

I think some people, including myself at RCMH, have the mentality of, "it's the last song so if I get kicked out, oh well" That's when I went down the aisle towards the stage but I was just escorted back to my seat.  :lol
Yeah, my concert buddies got kicked out during the final bows at the Tool show the other night. "Show's over, dickhead!"  :lol Worked out great. Security dude marched us out the side door and we were out of the building in two minutes flat. Made a big difference in beating traffic. Honestly, might try that trick again sometime.
:lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Logain Ablar on November 07, 2016, 01:01:40 PM
I think it's a smart move by the band. I don't live in the US, so I won't get a chance to see these shows, but I remember the end of the London show feeling a little flat.

There was no encore (not even Astonishing as the faux encore on that first night), which I knew was going to happen, but on the way out I was thinking how cool it would have been to see them come back out and launch into something like A Change Of Seasons. I would have totally loved that!

Agreed, but I think it would have been smarter to do it earlier.  But then the problem is that, at whatever stage they would have done it, anyone who saw a show prior to that would complain that they got ripped off.

Totally. If you guys get ACOS I won't be happy!  ;) In fairness to the band though, they are in a difficult spot. They must have hoped that TA by itself would have been enough of a draw to get people coming out. Now they're throwing in a few crowd pleasers to generate interest, and maximise their investment into the tour, but as you say, maybe the start of the second leg would have been a better time to announce and include the older stuff.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on November 07, 2016, 01:08:10 PM
I hope they play ACOS. It'll be a nice bootleg to get.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 07, 2016, 01:52:52 PM
I hope they play ACOS. It'll be a nice bootleg to get.
If they play that at my show, I will shit twice and die, right there in my seat.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on November 07, 2016, 02:01:31 PM
I hope they play ACOS. It'll be a nice bootleg to get.
If they play that at my show, I will shit twice and die, right there in my seat.

Then shit again, you know, loose bowels and stuff.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on November 07, 2016, 02:02:45 PM
I hope they play ACOS. It'll be a nice bootleg to get.
If they play that at my show, I will shit twice and die, right there in my seat.

 :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 07, 2016, 02:20:14 PM
If they play that at my show, I will shit twice and die, right there in my seat.

And I reiterate, that poor security guard.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 08, 2016, 07:48:45 AM
Indeed.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: oh8wrx on November 08, 2016, 09:31:22 AM
Just posted on the DT youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE8pFURwYrA

Looks like they are adding some stuff to the setlist..
Yep, just saw that! 

Pretty cool, but since this will be my first TA show, I hope the extras are exactly that: EXTRAS, added to the show, not substitutions.

But either way, we'll see, and I'll enjoy it either way.

 :metal

I saw that as well and got excited. There are 2 shows in LA coming up and I might have to get tickets just to hear some old songs. I loved TA show when I went back in May and even though I knew it was going to be exclusively TA, I was craving some songs from the other albums...
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 08, 2016, 01:27:32 PM
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if those additional songs are rehearsed for DVD material.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 08, 2016, 02:15:41 PM
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if those additional songs are rehearsed for DVD material.

Maybe so, but I'm not sure why anyone would buy such a DVD for those extra songs that are on other DVDs.  They really don't add much IMO unless they had some new visuals to go along with them or they did those songs slightly different.  I don't believe we have a video of As I Am with MM yet though.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Adami on November 08, 2016, 04:10:54 PM
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if those additional songs are rehearsed for DVD material.

Oh thank Xenu. I've been hoping they'd finally do The Spirit Carries On on a DVD.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: KevShmev on November 08, 2016, 05:35:58 PM
Figures that they would start this at the first show after the St. Louis one. Bastards. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: OldRodKS on November 08, 2016, 05:38:25 PM
Saw the show last night in KC.

As I Am, The Spirit Carries On, and Pull Me Under were the three oldies they played.

And honestly, it was the best part of the show.  The crowd was totally stoked when they came out for the final encore and played those 3.  It was awesome.

I felt bad for the band, actually.  It was a pretty small venue (~3500 I think) and it was only about half full.  And they were super strict about cell phones, not even letting people use them before the show, or during intermission.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Donmac1989 on November 08, 2016, 08:21:37 PM
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if those additional songs are rehearsed for DVD material.
Oh thank Xenu. I've been hoping they'd finally do The Spirit Carries On on a DVD.

Havent they already on a few of their live albums and not to mention the drummer audition dvd packaged with ADToE?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: sfam2112 on November 09, 2016, 07:43:27 PM
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if those additional songs are rehearsed for DVD material.
Oh thank Xenu. I've been hoping they'd finally do The Spirit Carries On on a DVD.

Havent they already on a few of their live albums and not to mention the drummer audition dvd packaged with ADToE?

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic. ;) :)
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: El Barto on November 10, 2016, 11:45:54 AM
Saw the show last night in KC.

As I Am, The Spirit Carries On, and Pull Me Under were the three oldies they played.

And honestly, it was the best part of the show.  The crowd was totally stoked when they came out for the final encore and played those 3.  It was awesome.

I felt bad for the band, actually.  It was a pretty small venue (~3500 I think) and it was only about half full.  And they were super strict about cell phones, not even letting people use them before the show, or during intermission.
Don't feel too bad for them. The cellphone thing is their own doing, and the low turnout is something they had to have been expecting.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Prog Snob on November 10, 2016, 11:47:34 AM
If they play that at my show, I will shit twice and die, right there in my seat.

And I reiterate, that poor security guard.

Indeed.

Maybe you should wear an adult diaper and baby wipes.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 11, 2016, 09:10:42 AM
According to setlist-FM they cut the same songs last night. I sure hope it's a curfew issue and not something they decides to do to add the encore songs. Because, my friend hasn't seen the astonishing live yet and may likely go with me.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 11, 2016, 09:23:13 AM
Just when you thought DT was turning the tide and doing what the fans wanted... that is sad if they are truly cutting out the end of TA to fit those songs.  While I wanted this type of encore all along, I wouldn't of wanted it to take away from TA, just in addition to TA. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 11, 2016, 09:52:18 AM
Just when you thought DT was turning the tide and doing what the fans wanted... that is sad if they are truly cutting out the end of TA to fit those songs.  While I wanted this type of encore all along, I wouldn't of wanted it to take away from TA, just in addition to TA.

Spot on, I feel the exact same way. I'm just glad I got to see TA performed in its entirety.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 11, 2016, 11:13:37 AM
At least in my book, this whole album and tour was such a clusterfuck, it's best to let it come to an end quickly and start completely fresh.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 11, 2016, 11:34:02 AM
At least in my book, this whole album and tour was such a clusterfuck, it's best to let it come to an end quickly and start completely fresh.

I would just say the second US leg was the clusterfuck.  I would think the rest of the tour was fine even if it had it's faults.  Like, I am sure the next tour will have it's own set of faults and whatnot, nothing is perfect, but to me, this second US leg where the demand was low was really the problem more so than the initial run of shows that didn't sell poorly (maybe not as good as previous tours, but I don't think they would be labelled as poorly attended).
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 11, 2016, 11:58:03 AM
Well, to be honest, I am sure the second leg would have been better attended if the first leg had been fantastic to watch. But there were just so many things: the cellphone Nazis, running out of programs in cities, the lack of decoration etc etc, all of that on top of an already pretty badly-received album. I think a lot of people went to the first leg thinking "let's see, maybe this pulls it all together", but then realized that it didn't and figured there's no point watching a carbon copy of the first leg again.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 11, 2016, 12:03:52 PM
I totally agree, but I don't think that makes the first leg a clusterfuck, just makes it poorly received.  To take a poorly received product on  a much larger road show is where the clusterfuck forms IMO.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: OldRodKS on November 14, 2016, 01:23:07 PM
According to setlist-FM they cut the same songs last night. I sure hope it's a curfew issue and not something they decides to do to add the encore songs. Because, my friend hasn't seen the astonishing live yet and may likely go with me.

There was no curfew in KC as far as I know, and they cut songs to make room for the 2nd encore.  But as I said, I was so happy to see that 2nd encore.  It made the entire show bearable.  Not that the show to that point had been *bad*, but that was the first rock show I've ever been to in my (long) life that everyone sat down the entire show, even those in the front few rows.  Only until a couple songs from the end, when LaBrie told people to get up, did anyone stand.

But in the 2nd encore, the entire theater was on its feet, fists pumping.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on November 14, 2016, 01:53:00 PM
Just want you guys to know that a lot of the things mentioned in this thread have been passed on to the band.  Trust me when I say that they care about what we think.  But also trust me when I say that they also want to be able to present their artistic vision in a way that makes sense to them, and that even aside from that, there are reasons for doing some things certain ways that may not make sense to us that just have to be done that way for a tour to make sense.  So even if they do not change things to cater to what we, the fans, may think we want to see or hear, they do care about what we think, and they do their best to try to create a balance that caters to as many needs as possible.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 14, 2016, 02:01:18 PM
Just want you guys to know that a lot of the things mentioned in this thread have been passed on to the band.  Trust me when I say that they care about what we think.  But also trust me when I say that they also want to be able to present their artistic vision in a way that makes sense to them, and that even aside from that, there are reasons for doing some things certain ways that may not make sense to us that just have to be done that way for a tour to make sense.  So even if they do not change things to cater to what we, the fans, may think we want to see or hear, they do care about what we think, and they do their best to try to create a balance that caters to as many needs as possible.

 :tup :tup  and that is a tough balance for them, as much as I had my complaints, I certainly do not wish for DT to change their creativeness and vision for their art.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Implode on November 14, 2016, 02:51:21 PM
Agreed. At the end of the day, it's their decision. They are an amazing group, but they aren't perfect. I can't really expect them to be. If they have this vision in the their mind, and they go for it, and it doesn't turn out as amazing to the fans as they'd hoped, oh well. It happens all the time. I'm happy that they are trying and are still passionate.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: ReaperKK on November 14, 2016, 03:17:43 PM
According to setlist-FM they cut the same songs last night. I sure hope it's a curfew issue and not something they decides to do to add the encore songs. Because, my friend hasn't seen the astonishing live yet and may likely go with me.

There was no curfew in KC as far as I know, and they cut songs to make room for the 2nd encore.  But as I said, I was so happy to see that 2nd encore.  It made the entire show bearable.  Not that the show to that point had been *bad*, but that was the first rock show I've ever been to in my (long) life that everyone sat down the entire show, even those in the front few rows.  Only until a couple songs from the end, when LaBrie told people to get up, did anyone stand.

But in the 2nd encore, the entire theater was on its feet, fists pumping.


Just looked up the setlist for the show. Nice little encore.

I think I said in the past the only thing that is keeping me from this show in Florida is that it is the Astonishing. I don't really care for the album and I'd much rather see some other material so if they go ahead and do another run then I'll for sure be out ther .
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Architeuthis on November 15, 2016, 03:23:54 PM
Well, to be honest, I am sure the second leg would have been better attended if the first leg had been fantastic to watch. But there were just so many things: the cellphone Nazis, running out of programs in cities, the lack of decoration etc etc

I agree with the cell phone Nazis! If I had my way, cell phones wouldn't be allowed at concerts. I find it very distracting when I'm enjoying a great concert and the person in front of me is holding up that damn bright screen blocking my view. I find it rude and inconsiderate.  Maybe a picture or two, but most people don't get it and never know when to stop.  >:(
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 15, 2016, 04:12:55 PM
Well, to be honest, I am sure the second leg would have been better attended if the first leg had been fantastic to watch. But there were just so many things: the cellphone Nazis, running out of programs in cities, the lack of decoration etc etc

I agree with the cell phone Nazis! If I had my way, cell phones wouldn't be allowed at concerts. I find it very distracting when I'm enjoying a great concert and the person in front of me is holding up that damn bright screen blocking my view. I find it rude and inconsiderate.  Maybe a picture or two, but most people don't get it and never know when to stop.  >:(

Couldn't you just kindly ask him to put his phone away.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Architeuthis on November 15, 2016, 05:47:28 PM
Well, to be honest, I am sure the second leg would have been better attended if the first leg had been fantastic to watch. But there were just so many things: the cellphone Nazis, running out of programs in cities, the lack of decoration etc etc

I agree with the cell phone Nazis! If I had my way, cell phones wouldn't be allowed at concerts. I find it very distracting when I'm enjoying a great concert and the person in front of me is holding up that damn bright screen blocking my view. I find it rude and inconsiderate.  Maybe a picture or two, but most people don't get it and never know when to stop.  >:(

Couldn't you just kindly ask him to put his phone away.
That's exactly what I did at a concert last summer. If the person with the device has any common sense, it shouldn't have to come to that.. :-\
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 15, 2016, 10:59:41 PM
The show was a major success.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: rumborak on November 16, 2016, 07:46:52 AM
Well, to be honest, I am sure the second leg would have been better attended if the first leg had been fantastic to watch. But there were just so many things: the cellphone Nazis, running out of programs in cities, the lack of decoration etc etc

I agree with the cell phone Nazis! If I had my way, cell phones wouldn't be allowed at concerts. I find it very distracting when I'm enjoying a great concert and the person in front of me is holding up that damn bright screen blocking my view. I find it rude and inconsiderate.  Maybe a picture or two, but most people don't get it and never know when to stop.  >:(

There are many ways to deal with the situation, and DT arguably found the worst. The ushers in Boston were downright rude, and people who've seen DT at other venues have confirmed the same.

People want mementos of the show they go to, that's natural. DT could make a shit ton of additional money by recording the show with a camera on the soundboard, upload to YouTube, charge money. That's the *actual* solution to the problem, not being nasty to fans who are excited about the band and want to have a video of it.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on November 16, 2016, 08:04:17 AM
I don't understand why we haven't seen a "crowd mode" setting for camera phones yet. If you're pointing your phone at the stage, you don't need a whole 4.3"+ to see what you're aiming at. They could leave the entire screen black with the exception of a .75"x.75" square in the corner. You'd still know what you were aiming at, and you wouldn't be driving everyone behind you nuts. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 16, 2016, 08:46:05 AM
I don't understand why we haven't seen a "crowd mode" setting for camera phones yet. If you're pointing your phone at the stage, you don't need a whole 4.3"+ to see what you're aiming at. They could leave the entire screen black with the exception of a .75"x.75" square in the corner. You'd still know what you were aiming at, and you wouldn't be driving everyone behind you nuts.

While I think that's a cool idea, do you think the people who are the most annoying with their phones would opt to run the camera in that node anyway?
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on November 16, 2016, 09:08:18 AM
I don't understand why we haven't seen a "crowd mode" setting for camera phones yet. If you're pointing your phone at the stage, you don't need a whole 4.3"+ to see what you're aiming at. They could leave the entire screen black with the exception of a .75"x.75" square in the corner. You'd still know what you were aiming at, and you wouldn't be driving everyone behind you nuts.

While I think that's a cool idea, do you think the people who are the most annoying with their phones would opt to run the camera in that node anyway?

Hopefully most would use it. But as always, there'd be people who just don't give a fuck.

(https://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/macbookair.jpg)
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 16, 2016, 10:21:49 AM
 :lol that's kind of where I was going.  I don't find the majority of phone/camera users to be annoying.  It's always just that one person who takes it to another level.  It's that person that I doubt uses it, but I guess even if 50% of the people used such a mode, it would help.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: OldRodKS on November 16, 2016, 01:26:31 PM
I don't mind people using their phones, as long as they keep them down at eye level.  If I can't see over them, their phone won't block anything that I can't already see :)

I did see one person taking pictures with an iPad at a Rush show once.  That was a bit annoying.

How do people record usable videos on their phones anyway?  I tried to video a part of a concert once on my phone and the music was so loud that all I got was noise distortion during playback. 
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 16, 2016, 01:28:46 PM
I don't mind people using their phones, as long as they keep them down at eye level.  If I can't see over them, their phone won't block anything that I can't already see :)

I did see one person taking pictures with an iPad at a Rush show once.  That was a bit annoying.

How do people record usable videos on their phones anyway?  I tried to video a part of a concert once on my phone and the music was so loud that all I got was noise distortion during playback.

Depends on the phone.  My old Samsung S5 was terrible with audio, then the S6 improved but was still shit, and now my S7 captures concert audio really well.  I used to bring my old Razr Max droid to concerts when I had my S5 cause it recorded audio really well and clean.  Like I could hear the audio better on playback than when I was there with my own ears.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: The Curious Orange on November 17, 2016, 01:12:02 AM
Just want you guys to know that a lot of the things mentioned in this thread have been passed on to the band.  Trust me when I say that they care about what we think.  But also trust me when I say that they also want to be able to present their artistic vision in a way that makes sense to them, and that even aside from that, there are reasons for doing some things certain ways that may not make sense to us that just have to be done that way for a tour to make sense.  So even if they do not change things to cater to what we, the fans, may think we want to see or hear, they do care about what we think, and they do their best to try to create a balance that caters to as many needs as possible.

I fully understand the reasons why the band want to present The Astonishing live as one piece of work. I totally support them in that. I'm merely trying to explain why I wouldn't spend my hard earned money to see it again.

DT have been one of my favourite bands for 24 years now - that's more than half my life. I love the band, and I love 90% of what they do - apologies if I spend too long concentrating on that other 10%! Nice to know they listen to fan feedback - now how about ditching the click-track, guys?? :)
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: BelichickFan on November 17, 2016, 03:00:10 AM
I guess they're skipping X Aspect also - they did in Anaheim, anyway.  It made for a little awkward - meaning "not what I was expecting - start to A New Beginning.  Missing Road to Revolution bothered me less than I expected.  I love the track but the solo to end A New Beginning is such a "Drop the Mike" kind of moment that going straight to the intermission worked fine.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on November 17, 2016, 05:53:03 AM
Just want you guys to know that a lot of the things mentioned in this thread have been passed on to the band.  Trust me when I say that they care about what we think.  But also trust me when I say that they also want to be able to present their artistic vision in a way that makes sense to them, and that even aside from that, there are reasons for doing some things certain ways that may not make sense to us that just have to be done that way for a tour to make sense.  So even if they do not change things to cater to what we, the fans, may think we want to see or hear, they do care about what we think, and they do their best to try to create a balance that caters to as many needs as possible.

Are we about to find out that there will not be a single concert filmed for a DVD/Bluray, and instead, the band has filmed footage from every single show and each track will be from a different venue? That'd be pretty awesome actually.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: TAC on November 17, 2016, 05:57:20 AM
I hate that. I like live albums to be one show.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on November 17, 2016, 05:59:10 AM
I hate that. I like live albums to be one show.

The show was to a click, they could just take the audio from the best performance (minus that beast of a guitar solo) and dub it to pretty much any of the footage and we'd probably not even notice. The stage went dark between almost every song. I think it'd be alright. But that's just me.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: TAC on November 17, 2016, 06:03:12 AM
I just like knowing that the continuity came from one show. But that's just me. :)
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 17, 2016, 08:20:12 AM
I hate that. I like live albums to be one show.

The show was to a click, they could just take the audio from the best performance (minus that beast of a guitar solo) and dub it to pretty much any of the footage and we'd probably not even notice. The stage went dark between almost every song. I think it'd be alright. But that's just me.

While I might not notice, I am sure this forum would notice  :lol

I prefer the one show DVD as well.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: gzarruk on November 17, 2016, 08:34:01 AM
Nice to know they listen to fan feedback - now how about ditching the click-track, guys?? :)


They can't stop using the click track because they're playing with a whole production of video, lights and samples that are activated on specific moments of the set. Many bands use click tracks now, like Steven Wilson's and Haken, just to name a couple.

As a musician myself, I find it that playing to a metronome live helps the band to sound more cohesive and it is tighter from start to finish. Playing to a click doesn't make you lose the feel at all.

In contrast, listen to some older live DT albums and you'll notice. For example, New Millenium at Budokan was played too fast and it lost something that way.

Not trying to sound angry, btw, just my take on the matter :biggrin:




Just want you guys to know that a lot of the things mentioned in this thread have been passed on to the band.  Trust me when I say that they care about what we think.  But also trust me when I say that they also want to be able to present their artistic vision in a way that makes sense to them, and that even aside from that, there are reasons for doing some things certain ways that may not make sense to us that just have to be done that way for a tour to make sense.  So even if they do not change things to cater to what we, the fans, may think we want to see or hear, they do care about what we think, and they do their best to try to create a balance that caters to as many needs as possible.

Are we about to find out that there will not be a single concert filmed for a DVD/Bluray, and instead, the band has filmed footage from every single show and each track will be from a different venue? That'd be pretty awesome actually.


Looks like that will be the case. Not the best thing to do imo, but if it works for them, and if they come up with something better, quality wise, than CIM, that's perfect. That way, they could probably add the version of Our New World with Lzzy Hale and also keep other versions of the songs they removed from the setlist, like Heaven's Cove and the others.
We'll probably have to wait untill this 2nd US leg is over to get some news on a Live release, and if the're going to tour for TA, after the IAW anniversary, on Asia and Australia.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: cramx3 on November 17, 2016, 08:37:06 AM
If a potential live release did not include the songs that have just been dropped then that would be a ridiculously dumb decision IMO.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on November 17, 2016, 08:43:02 AM
Yeah, I can't imagine DT making that mistake.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 17, 2016, 08:52:47 AM
I'm really not thrilled at all they dropped songs from The Astonishing in order to fit Pull Me Under, As I Am and The Spirit Carries On. Those three songs have been played TO DEATH, and they aren't playing The Astonishing on its entirety ever again. I haven't read to detail if it was a curfew thing or one night thing, but either way I don't think that's very cool.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on November 17, 2016, 09:23:08 AM
...now how about ditching the click-track, guys?? :)

Well, that is one of the things I mentioned.  So at the very least, they are aware of how the fans feel about it, and if they decide to still keep it, at least they are making an informed decision.

Just want you guys to know that a lot of the things mentioned in this thread have been passed on to the band.  Trust me when I say that they care about what we think.  But also trust me when I say that they also want to be able to present their artistic vision in a way that makes sense to them, and that even aside from that, there are reasons for doing some things certain ways that may not make sense to us that just have to be done that way for a tour to make sense.  So even if they do not change things to cater to what we, the fans, may think we want to see or hear, they do care about what we think, and they do their best to try to create a balance that caters to as many needs as possible.

Are we about to find out that there will not be a single concert filmed for a DVD/Bluray, and instead, the band has filmed footage from every single show and each track will be from a different venue? That'd be pretty awesome actually.


Looks like that will be the case. ...

Um, no, there has been NOTHING to indicate that that is the case.  Not sure why you would think that.  They have said nothing of the kind.  I mean, I'm not saying it isn't a possibility.  But the band has not said or done anything to indicate that that is what they are doing, so it's a huge leap to make that assumption.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: gzarruk on November 17, 2016, 11:49:14 AM
...now how about ditching the click-track, guys?? :)

Well, that is one of the things I mentioned.  So at the very least, they are aware of how the fans feel about it, and if they decide to still keep it, at least they are making an informed decision.

Just want you guys to know that a lot of the things mentioned in this thread have been passed on to the band.  Trust me when I say that they care about what we think.  But also trust me when I say that they also want to be able to present their artistic vision in a way that makes sense to them, and that even aside from that, there are reasons for doing some things certain ways that may not make sense to us that just have to be done that way for a tour to make sense.  So even if they do not change things to cater to what we, the fans, may think we want to see or hear, they do care about what we think, and they do their best to try to create a balance that caters to as many needs as possible.

Are we about to find out that there will not be a single concert filmed for a DVD/Bluray, and instead, the band has filmed footage from every single show and each track will be from a different venue? That'd be pretty awesome actually.


Looks like that will be the case. ...

Um, no, there has been NOTHING to indicate that that is the case.  Not sure why you would think that.  They have said nothing of the kind.  I mean, I'm not saying it isn't a possibility.  But the band has not said or done anything to indicate that that is what they are doing, so it's a huge leap to make that assumption.


I haven't been to any of the concerts, since they never come to my country, but I've been reading posts on the band's FB (not necessarily a credible source) from people who have attended some
of the last concerts and meet & greets, who said they heard the band is recording all their concerts and, if you look closely, you can see Jordan now has a GoPro on his keyboard and he didn't have it at the start of the tour.

Of course, this is just assuming stuff, we don't take it as facts :)
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: bosk1 on November 17, 2016, 12:00:37 PM
Jordan has had different types of cameras mounted on or around his keyboard rig throughout the years.  He is constantly experimenting with different setups.  So that doesn't mean anything. 

As for rumors about whether the band might be recording their shows, that doesn't really prove anything either (except that people like posting rumors on Facebook, but what else is new?).
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 17, 2016, 01:11:34 PM
 :omg:
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: gzarruk on November 17, 2016, 02:49:00 PM
Jordan has had different types of cameras mounted on or around his keyboard rig throughout the years.  He is constantly experimenting with different setups.  So that doesn't mean anything. 

As for rumors about whether the band might be recording their shows, that doesn't really prove anything either (except that people like posting rumors on Facebook, but what else is new?).

You're right about Jordan setup.

I do remember, though, reading either JP or MM saying that there were no cameras on them for this tour. Tried to find the post, but couldn't.

Hope they record one single concert and not make it a compilation like CIM or 5YIAL  :-\
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Chino on November 17, 2016, 07:28:19 PM
Jordan has had different types of cameras mounted on or around his keyboard rig throughout the years.  He is constantly experimenting with different setups.  So that doesn't mean anything. 

As for rumors about whether the band might be recording their shows, that doesn't really prove anything either (except that people like posting rumors on Facebook, but what else is new?).

You're right about Jordan setup.

I do remember, though, reading either JP or MM saying that there were no cameras on them for this tour. Tried to find the post, but couldn't.

Hope they record one single concert and not make it a compilation like CIM or 5YIAL  :-\

They got some pretty good footage in order to make this promo...

https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/videos/10153780086462181/
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: gzarruk on November 17, 2016, 07:59:57 PM
Jordan has had different types of cameras mounted on or around his keyboard rig throughout the years.  He is constantly experimenting with different setups.  So that doesn't mean anything. 

As for rumors about whether the band might be recording their shows, that doesn't really prove anything either (except that people like posting rumors on Facebook, but what else is new?).

You're right about Jordan setup.

I do remember, though, reading either JP or MM saying that there were no cameras on them for this tour. Tried to find the post, but couldn't.

Hope they record one single concert and not make it a compilation like CIM or 5YIAL  :-\

They got some pretty good footage in order to make this promo...

https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/videos/10153780086462181/


I think that was from the Our New World video? But yes, it looks amazing :)
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: jsbru on December 08, 2016, 10:35:49 PM
Just want you guys to know that a lot of the things mentioned in this thread have been passed on to the band.  Trust me when I say that they care about what we think.  But also trust me when I say that they also want to be able to present their artistic vision in a way that makes sense to them, and that even aside from that, there are reasons for doing some things certain ways that may not make sense to us that just have to be done that way for a tour to make sense.  So even if they do not change things to cater to what we, the fans, may think we want to see or hear, they do care about what we think, and they do their best to try to create a balance that caters to as many needs as possible.

Are we about to find out that there will not be a single concert filmed for a DVD/Bluray, and instead, the band has filmed footage from every single show and each track will be from a different venue? That'd be pretty awesome actually.

That's kind of the way they put together the Our New World music video.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: jsbru on December 08, 2016, 10:40:48 PM
Oh jeez...that's what, a 3-week jinx?  I should read the whole thread before I post on previous posts.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Lethean on December 12, 2016, 10:39:30 AM
Just want you guys to know that a lot of the things mentioned in this thread have been passed on to the band.  Trust me when I say that they care about what we think.  But also trust me when I say that they also want to be able to present their artistic vision in a way that makes sense to them, and that even aside from that, there are reasons for doing some things certain ways that may not make sense to us that just have to be done that way for a tour to make sense.  So even if they do not change things to cater to what we, the fans, may think we want to see or hear, they do care about what we think, and they do their best to try to create a balance that caters to as many needs as possible.

I think it's cool that they take fan opinions into consideration.  At the same time, I'm glad for the bolded part and hope they continue to do it their way.  I also hope they don't think that everyone hated this tour.  I took the time to read the whole thread so I wouldn't just be coming in and saying things the don't make sense.  Since this is the complaint thread, it makes sense that it would be full of complaints.  :)  Yet there are also a lot of positives in this same thread, and more in the individual show threads.  Even aside from that, I don't feel that all the complaints in this thread are indicative of what the general fanbase who went to the shows felt as a whole.  Just like my feelings (that this album and tour was one of their very best) probably aren't indicative of it either.   It's somewhere in the middle, but I think it leans much more to the positive than the negative.

I went to several shows on the tour, and tried to talk to different fans at each one, and observe people's reactions.  I think the shows went off quite well.  Some went in unsure of whether they would like it and came away wanting to listen to the album more.  At just about every show, multiple people were talking about JLB's performance and "acting" and how it brought everything to life. Only one person said they wanted a female singer and everyone else around said no way.  People who were sitting in the seats calmly that I thought were bored or not into it, were excited at intermission and after the encore, talking about all the things they loved.  The camera policy had the most mixed reactions I suppose - a lot of people loved it and a lot of people hated it.  There was a lot of excitement around the show and I hope they realize that for every complaint, there were more people who were really happy.  Not everyone cares that whether they use a click track or not, not everyone thought they shows were boring, or the band was lifeless.  (In fact I thought they were more animated on the second leg and MM, JP, and JLB upped their game).  I'm sure there were people who went that didn't like it so much, but most that I came across weren't in that category.  I think the biggest problem with the second leg attendance was logistics - too many of these shows were in cities that were close together and in markets that are smaller than they usually play in the first place.

If I had to give some constructive feedback, I'd say the sitting/standing thing was confusing.  In an earlier post, someone said that ushers yelled at people to sit down.  I never saw that happen, but at most shows I saw, either everyone sat or it was mixed. At a few, everyone got up as soon as the band came out on stage and stayed that way for the whole night.  No one seemed really sure if the band wanted people to sit or not or if they were even allowed to stand. At the sitting shows, fans around me seemed really happy when JLB asked everyone to stand.  So I guess, if they truly want people to sit, maybe they should communicate that somehow, and expect that it's naturally going to bring the fan energy down a little - someone who is sitting might be enjoying the show just as much, but it doesn't necessarily appear that way.  If they want people to stand, and it sure seemed like JP did, make sure the ushers don't yell at them for doing so for starters, and maybe try to encourage them to get up earlier in the night and see what happens. 

But everything else I think comes down to opinion and we all have different ones, so they should do what they feel is best for them.  Phones or no phones?  Up to them.  I guess another suggestion I could give is that they make more of the professional photos available - put them on their website for people to download so they can get pics from the show they were at.  Click track or not?  Whatever they think works best for them.  Actors and props on stage?  I think it could have been cool, but it's hard to say.  A nomac hanging from the ceiling would have been very cool, but wouldn't have made the show any better.  More singers?  Not after what JLB showed he was able to pull off. 

I know the tour is over and you've shared feedback with the band and they're probably enjoying their time off and then will be focused on the I&W tour, but I wanted bring some of the positive side to it.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 13, 2016, 08:45:22 AM
^Great post^
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 13, 2016, 01:05:48 PM
^Great post^

Seconded. Welcome to the forums, Vakaren.
Title: Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
Post by: Lethean on December 14, 2016, 12:21:15 AM
Many thanks :)