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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Stadler on April 18, 2016, 09:52:41 AM
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Following the recent discussion about Kiss in the “Classic Lineup” thread, and in particular the discussions about the various eras and phases, I thought it might be fun to run down the discography. A couple ground rules to start off with:
• Only studio albums, no live albums;
• Having said that, I am going to include the studio tracks from the various Greatest Hits packages (but not the remixes, since almost every Kiss hits package dicks with the original recordings)
• I’m including the 1978 solo albums, but no subsequent solo albums
I count 27 studio albums:
27. Peter Criss (1978)
26. Carnival of Souls (1997)
25. Smashes Studio Tracks (1988)
24. Crazy Nights (1987)
23. Asylum (1985)
22. Psycho Circus (1998)
21. Revenge (1992)
20. Animalize (1984)
19. Killers Studio Tracks (1982)
18. Hot In The Shade (1989)
17. Gene Simmons (1978)
16. Love Gun (1977)
15. Ace Frehley (1978)
14. Monster (2012)
13. Dressed To Kill (1975)
12. Sonic Boom (2009)
11. Unmasked (1980)
10. Dynasty (1979)
9. Alive II Side 4 (1977)
8. Music From The Elder (1982)
7. Paul Stanley (1978)
6. Lick It Up (1983)
5. Kiss (1974)
4. Rock and Roll Over (1976)
3. Destroyer (1976)
2. Creatures of the Night (1982)
1. Hotter Than Hell (1974)
For the record, I’m a lifelong Kiss fan and sometimes apologist. The first record I ever bought with my own money was Alive II on release, and I have been a fan ever since. I’ve met the Lick it Up band once, and Paul again individually, and think the world of both Paul and Gene. I do NOT think they are ‘fooling’ the fans with the current lineup, and while I feel I can be objective, I do not automatically assume that everything they do is a “ca$h grab”.
You wanted the best, you got the best. The hottest band in the world… KISS!
27. Peter Criss (1978): One of the four infamous “solo” albums, and by all accounts - including mine - the least favorably regarded. It is the only official Kiss release I don’t own on CD, and while I am keeping my vinyl copy (with poster) for collection purposes, I haven’t listened to this since… 1979. I sort of liked Tossin’ and Turnin’, because I liked the original, but this was very far from Kiss. I could have then (and would now) accept that; it's kind of neat to see people's influences and what makes them tick individually and not in the band. But in hindsight, I felt like the album was very indicative of Peter’s relative cluelessness, and was "different" more because he's lazy and didn't put in the work rather than wanting to genuinely show a different side of him. Most of the songs were actually written pre-Kiss – he couldn’t be bothered to come up with ten new songs of his own – and he could only be bothered to play drums on about half the album. Trivia: only one of the solo albums to have TWO singles released.
26. Carnival of Souls (1997, recorded in 1995): This is the album that we SHOULD love, right? Departure for Kiss, bootlegged heavily, released by the demand of the fans… but for me, it didn’t connect. It's technically a great record - I LOVE the song “Childhood’s End”, and "I Confess", "I Will Be There", "I Walk Alone" are all very strong - but as a Kiss, album, it’s a tough listen. I like Kiss because it’s visceral, in a good way. Plays to our baser instincts with no apologies. This album thinks too much. Gene’s songs fare better, because of his voice, but Paul is like Sammy Hagar, he is very talented (and an artist, as opposed to say a David Lee Roth) but he clearly has his sweet spot, and that is self-affirming, fist in the air arena rock anthems. This is grunge by the numbers. As least you know Layne Staley lived it, motherf*****er; it's just a little too much to hear "Hate" from a guy that appears in footie pajamas in his reality show. I just don’t buy into angst from the guy that sang “Do You Love Me” and “C'mon And Love Me". One bonus: the only lead vocal from Bruce Kulick on a Kiss record; its better than it should be (he sounds like a cross between Joe Perry and Ace Frehley). Trivia: Gene continues the Van Halen connection; “I Confess” was co-written with Sammy Hagar’s cousin, Ken Tamplin, a well-known Christian rocker.
25. Smashes, Thrashes, and Hits Studio Tracks (1988): I’m always fascinated by the additional studio songs from Kiss. On this album and Killers (more later) they are written by Paul, but Gene is notorious for bringing in 20 or 30 songs to each album session. I think it speaks to the degree to which Kiss is really Paul’s baby at this point, and has been since the early ‘80’s. These songs are run of the mill Kiss. They aren’t bad, but it’s Kiss, so there is so much better in the catalogue. I don’t mind the overt sexual lyrics from Kiss; for me, though, these can’t decide if they want to be clever (both titles are rather ingenious double entendres) or just crass. By putting them on this compilation, they are treated as throwaways, and so that is what I consider them. Kiss isn’t as good/bad (depending on your perspective) as Dream Theater with regards to their “spot the influences”, but there’s an obvious one in “Let’s Put The X In Sex”; the guitar figure in the end is cribbed from “It Must Be Hell” from Undercover by the Stones (1983).
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I like Let's Put the X in Sex. I don't consider it a throwaway despite the standard stigma of being on a compilation, unlike the bonus tracks on say Alive 2. It's not enough to save the compilation, but the album is still an interesting listen as a curiosity, as is Double Platinum.
I gave Carnival of Souls a solid chance, but it's not KISS. I basically like the same songs you do, and don't mind others either, but it's just KISS obviously trying to fit into a particularly mold they shouldn't. KISS are better than that (shut up, they are :lol ). It wasn't a good era for existing rockers, so I can excuse the misstep. It's a real shame, because Revenge is my favourite, and I love that lineup.
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Peter's album is the worst.
I completely disagree with COS. I love the album.
The 2 new songs on Smashes are forgettable. The remixing on some of the songs are just poor.
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I've never listened to Carnival of Souls or any of the solo albums.
I regret nothing.
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Following . I think I sorta liked one song on CoS but I can't remember which one. I remember we were camping out for Reunion tour tix and some guy had Carnival playing in his car (a prized boot then) . He was :metal and I was :facepalm: :lol
I can relate to the "life as a KISS fan" too. My first ever and only music related items in the years 1982-1984 (8yo-10yo) were KISS Killers on tape and KISS collector cards - both of which I still have.
I have no issue with these 3 right at the bottom of the discog.
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I will follow to learn.
I largely passed the KISS train by. I never made any kind of connection like some of my friends did back in the day. They were
all that and 10 bags of chips back then but I was into too many other bands and always thought the makeup thing was a little
goofy. I probably missed some great gigs and who knows, maybe I'll go buy an album after this thread is over.
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Following. I'm a big Kiss fan (especially the makeup era, anyways).
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Following this big time!
The only two solo albums that I have are Ace and Paul. Didn't like what I heard from Peter and Genes.
COS is ok, but I could never fully get into it. Just too much of a different sound for the band. However, with that being said, "Jungle" is a fantastic song.
I've heard a lot of best ofs from Kiss. The best IMO is without question, Killers!!
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For the record, I’m a lifelong Kiss fan and sometimes apologist. The first record I ever bought with my own money was Alive II on release, and I have been a fan ever since. I’ve met the Lick it Up band once, and Paul again individually, and think the world of both Paul and Gene. I do NOT think they are ‘fooling’ the fans with the current lineup, and while I feel I can be objective, I do not automatically assume that everything they do is a “ca$h grab”.
You wanted the best, you got the best. The hottest band in the world… KISS!
Have you no shame!!!! ;)
For the record, my first double album purchase was 'Alive'. My Mom was finally getting a turntable, and I could not resist the $4.95 price tag. I have six studio CDs from the 70s (RnR Over and LGun for the 'hits), plus 'Creatures' and 'Psycho Circus'. I found quite a few concerts on ytube that I make discs for a diehard friend, and couldn't help enjoying the three concerts I attended (though I wish Paul didn't suffer from 'KevinCronin-itis' between songs so severely).
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I've heard a lot of best ofs from Kiss. The best IMO is without question, Killers!!
:tup
Nowhere To Run is close enough to my all time favorite - Ace or no Ace. I may be biased as it's my first ever album but I never got sick of that song. And Paul played 45 secs of it on acoustic at my request at a convention :metal - and then said he couldn't remember the rest.
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Definitely following but will be able to contribute more after vacation.
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Alive II was my first album too.
I'm taking COS over Gene's solo album.
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As a huge KISS fan I'm following. My first favourite band and responsible for me following this guitar dominated path.
I used to see the adverts for the solo albums in the comics I read as a kid but didn't know who or what they were, but they looked cool. They weren't on the radar of a 9 year old in the uk when those albums came out. They weren't a band that got any mainstream exposure at that time in the uk. That only really happened when the makeup came off, although I remember seeing them on tv when A World Without Heroes was released. I sent my dad into town to get it on picture disc.
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Sorry, got so excited at a KISS thread that I posted before reading all the op. Didn't realise you were eating them in preference order, I thought it was a discog discussion. Still excited though.
I'm with you on Peters solo album, though I like I Can't Stop The Rain. Although Peter doesn't think so, he's the weak link in the songwriting department. I've always liked his voice (in the studio. Beth is painful live).
I would however, rate it higher than Carnival of Souls. I hated grunge and KISS should not have gone anywhere near it. Paul and Gene can't relate to where grunge came from.
KISS and compilations... But you have to get them for the new tracks. Those on ST&H were OK. I was a teenager at the time so the sex lyrics were fine. Best compilation was Double Platinum for me. I loved the original gatefold sleeve to with the embossed KISS faces.
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I may take your Kiss army card away for putting Peter's solo album above COS.
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I may take your Kiss army card away for putting Peter's solo album above COS.
At least peters album was in keeping with his musical taste. CoS was a sellout.
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There is nothing wrong with adding a style that you are influenced. Playing a style that none of your fans will listen to is a huge mistake.
Paul's solo album was a stylistic change that worked with KISS fans. That's why Gene's wasn't liked as well. Too many styles that fans did not like.
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I may take your Kiss army card away for putting Peter's solo album above COS.
26th place: Carnival of Souls
27th place: Peter Criss
Carnival is above Peter.
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I may take your Kiss army card away for putting Peter's solo album above COS.
26th place: Carnival of Souls
27th place: Peter Criss
Carnival is above Peter.
:lol
Sure. Though Hot In The Shade is another low on my list.
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Okay, I've read through this thread once and the OP twice and I still don't understand what's going on. Is this a discography thread, only organized like a countdown? Do we just start blabbing about whatever albums we want, or do we discuss the albums being covered (the bottom three thus far)?
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Okay, I've read through this thread once and the OP twice and I still don't understand what's going on. Is this a discography thread, only organized like a countdown? Do we just start blabbing about whatever albums we want, or do we discuss the albums being covered (the bottom three thus far)?
Stadler ranks their discography. We discuss it. We end up off topic. Repeat!
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This will be interesting to follow, I'm only familiar with the first eight albums.
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Following, because I was a huge Kiss-fan in my teenage years/twenties. Even been a member of the KISS-Army. :biggrin: My first album was Alive II as well, bought solely on the cover art.
After that, I was totally into it. My interest didn't falter untill Unmasked, although I think they made up for that one afterwards, musically. Hell, I even like the Elder.... :huh:
I think I'm one of those rare people who actually loved Peter Criss's solo-album in 1978! I just loved his voice, especially on 'I can't stop the rain.' Sue me.
So yeah, I will follow this thread with great interest, Stadler!
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Okay, I've read through this thread once and the OP twice and I still don't understand what's going on. Is this a discography thread, only organized like a countdown? Do we just start blabbing about whatever albums we want, or do we discuss the albums being covered (the bottom three thus far)?
Okay, so apparently, I f****d with the notion of "discography". I felt it would be more interesting if I gave them in some sort of order; some of the albums just aren't really that worth discussing, so many the order would be controversial enough to stimulate discussion.
I'll be posting the next installment later today, but I will say this, I've gone back and listened to a lot of this while writing it, and it is a revelation. Some of this stuff is so strong even today.
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I just wasn't sure how it was going to work. I generally prefer going through things chronologically, because most of the time it follows my experience with the given band. I like reflecting on how they evolved over time, due to personnel changes, changes in the music scene, etc. But that's because I'm old enough to have known most of these bands from when they started and actually followed along. Also, I've followed KISS for a long time (since Alive! same as most people my age) and have a few stories to share, but without any specific timeline, there's no real place to put them. The stories have to do with times and dates, not specific albums as such.
But that's just me whining. It's your discography, and for a lot of guys here, a band's catalog is just a bunch of albums, and where they appear just defines who played on it and not much more. Presenting the albums as a countdown will have the (partial) effect of jumping around a bit randomly in the catalog, which can be interesting as well.
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Never listened to the solo albums. That was the point where the hype and cash grab became too much. Is there enough on those to make one good LP? Never heard 'CoS'. I did some listening in snippets of 'Smashes'. What were your thoughts of the remixes? Seemed kind of a lame attempt at selling a 'new' product (not that other bands aren't guilty of the same). The bits I heard where there are changes, seemed to be done for change sake alone.
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I think you could easily do one very good album from the solo albums. Maybe even a double.
As for the remixes, they've done this on virtually every hits package.
About half of Double Platinum was remixed (the only difference I can remember is a different solo on Detroit Rock City)
Killers has a single remix of Shout It Out Loud
Chikara (a Japanese package) has a couple remixes (I know of Creatures..., and Detroit..., there may be more)
About half of Smashes... was remixed
Some of the differences are noticeable, and unless you're really married to the originals, they aren't the worst thing in the world, except for Strutter '78, which is lame, and the Shout It Out Loud on Killers, which removes the panning of Gene and Paul's voices (on the original, Gene is mixed in the left speaker, and Paul is in the right).
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I've never listened to Carnival of Souls or any of the solo albums.
I regret nothing.
Besides the fact COS is Kiss blatantly trying to cash in on the grunge trend, its an awesome album. One of my favs.
The one album I still LOVE to listen to is Kiss unplugged. Awesome stuff!
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I like all of the classic KISS stuff (more or less) but my two favorite albums are Hot in the Shade (an opinion I share with very few people, I would imagine) and Revenge.
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LOVE this thread. Been a KISS fan for 38 years (since kindergarten). Dressed To Kill was the first piece of music I ever owned. They were my first concert (MSG, '85). I got to meet the Revenge line-up at the Alive III meet and greet in NYC and I've met Ace, Peter, Vinnie, Bruce and Eric Singer at various conventions. I still buy the albums (Monster was surprisingly good). But, as far as live, I'm done. My last show was the Farewell Tour. I won't go so far as to call them scabs as others do. However, they need to let Tommy branch out from the Ace theme a little bit. His songs are total Ace rip-offs.
My two cents on the albums so far:
- Peter Criss - totally agree. This and Sonic Boom are probably my 2 least favorite albums. This album just never clicked with me. Ballads and boogie woogie. Pass!
- Carnival of Souls - great album, not a great KISS album. This is sort of like the self-titled Motley Crue album. To me, that's a phenomenal album but not a Motley Crue album. KISS was definitely going for grunge with this one. But, it also has Gene's strongest songs since the make-up days. It's just a shame it sounds like sh*t. Toby Wright has spoken at length on various podcasts about this album.
- Smashes, Thrashes & Hits - Meh! Yet another compilation with a couple new generic 80's KISS rockers.
I like all of the classic KISS stuff (more or less) but my two favorite albums are Hot in the Shade (an opinion I share with very few people, I would imagine) and Revenge.
Hot In The Shade was a good attempt to get back to the old sound. Unfortunately, it's an album of mostly demos with a drum machine and not much Eric Carr. Has some good songs but has a good amount of filler, too. It was nice to finally have an original song with Eric on lead vocals.
Revenge was Bruce's baby and it totally shows. Great guitar work. I was floored when I saw the video for "Unholy" on Headbanger's Ball before the album came out. A new KISS video for a GENE song?!? Wow! I couldn't wait for it to come out.
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I think you could easily do one very good album from the solo albums. Maybe even a double.
As for the remixes, they've done this on virtually every hits package.
About half of Double Platinum was remixed (the only difference I can remember is a different solo on Detroit Rock City)
Killers has a single remix of Shout It Out Loud
Chikara (a Japanese package) has a couple remixes (I know of Creatures..., and Detroit..., there may be more)
About half of Smashes... was remixed
Some of the differences are noticeable, and unless you're really married to the originals, they aren't the worst thing in the world, except for Strutter '78, which is lame, and the Shout It Out Loud on Killers, which removes the panning of Gene and Paul's voices (on the original, Gene is mixed in the left speaker, and Paul is in the right).
There was a "best of the solos" album, I have it. Track list...
–Ace Frehley New York Groove 3:01
–Gene Simmons Living In Sin 3:50
–Gene Simmons See You Tonite 2:30
–Ace Frehley Rip It Out 3:39
–Ace Frehley Fractured Mirror 5:25
–Peter Criss Don't You Let Me Down 3:38
–Gene Simmons Radioactive 3:52
–Paul Stanley Tonight You Belong To Me 4:39
–Paul Stanley Take Me Away (Together As One) 5:26
–Peter Criss Rock Me, Baby 2:50
–Peter Criss I Can't Stop The Rain 4:25
–Paul Stanley Hold Me, Touch Me
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Next round. I'm torn between moving too quickly, and yet with 27 records to go through, I don't really want this to run on for weeks... so any feedback as to the pacing will be welcome!
24. Crazy Nights (1987): I usually cite this album as the low point of Kiss’s career, and I’m usually quick to dismiss it. The only song I really care for is “Hell or High Water” (not surprisingly, a Gene tune) though I don’t mind “Reason To Live” for what it is. But for this exercise, I revisited this, and it’s slightly better than I remember, though I don’t think it’s fair to move it up based on one listen, as I’ve got almost 30 years of dislike to overcome. Where it goes afoul for me is the production; anyone that knows me knows I generally don’t give a shit about production (wait till later in this list) but this is just too much. There are quasi-synth horns, and lot of keyboard pads, and a whole lot of gloss on this – producer Ron Nevison was just coming off the Heart commercial resurgence - and for me, Kiss is always about sweat and sinew. Kiss was and is for me a New York band, and this album is just so LA. Famously, just before this album, Paul went to Gene and basically said “it’s not fair; you’re reaping all the benefits of Kiss, but I’m putting in all the work”. Gene was certainly phoning it in, and it almost seems as if Paul is too, or at least if he is trying, he’s trying to make a point, not make great music. This is not a band firing on all cylinders.
23. Asylum (1985): Given what I just wrote about “Crazy Nights”, this album should be the bottom of the barrel; talk about phoned in: Gene doesn’t play bass on any of the songs he doesn’t sing (it’s either Paul, or Jean Beauvoir, from the Plasmatics). It’s the precursor of Crazy Nights, and is the middle of the three records put out during Gene’s “Hollywood” period. Paul is clearly the man with the plan, but he hasn’t called out Gene yet, so this is still pretending to be a real Kiss album. I like this more than Crazy Nights because it’s the first appearance of Bruce Kulick as a full-time, pledged member of the band, and the production is a little grittier (though still not anything special). The songwriting is strong, though leaning heavier toward Bon Jovi than Zeppelin, and it has one of my all time favorite Kiss songs, “Tears Are Falling”, and the excellent “Trial By Fire”. Live, this was the beginning of the “Who has more bandanas?” era; the stage costumes here were out of control, and Paul in particular took it a little too far at times, looking like a dude in a chicken costume in the “Uh! All Night” video. The stage show was rather disjointed; you still had Gene breathing fire (but no blood) but Paul’s raps were getting increasingly juvenile and vulgar. A lesser band would have had trouble, but this is Kiss; ironically, for all the uncertainty in direction, the “Hollywood” records sold a ton (two of the three were Platinum).
Trivia: Who opened for Kiss on the Asylum tour, and what was their significance to the band?
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There were a number of acts that opened on the Asylum tour (incl King Kobra and WASP?) but I assume you're referring to Black n Blue , a member of which was current axeman Tommy Thayer.
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I like both these albums, though neither are anywhere near top tier. Most of the paul songs stand up on both and genes are ok, nothing special.
The over production of crazy nights bothered me, but it was a sign of the times.
I would have both of these over Hot In The Shade. That is a steaming turd with two decent songs.
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These two albums are paint by the numbers hair metal. Decent stuff, but nothing I go out of my way to play that often.
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I like both of these albums but each has some clunkers and is up and down- Skip button in use frequently. I always had a soft spot for I'll Fight Hell To Hold You , mostly due to Paul's vocal performance :hefdaddy Bruce shredding his butt off doesn't hurt either.
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There were a number of acts that opened on the Asylum tour (incl King Kobra and WASP?) but I assume you're referring to Black n Blue , a member of which was current axeman Tommy Thayer.
Well done, that is correct.
Apparently I have to dig deeper on the trivia. :) At least as we get up the list it'll be a little easier to put something challenging on the table.
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Crazy Nights is Paul's "Let's see how high I can sing" album. Between "I'd Fight Hell To Hold You" and "My Way", it's a wonder his voice didn't blow out sooner than it did. I like/love most of Paul's stuff on this album. And, as far as non-makeup 80's albums go, this might be the best of Gene's contributions. Although, that's not saying much. As a band, they were chasing the trends way too much with this one. Definitely too polished sounding.
Asylum is possibly my favorite non-makeup album. Once again, love the Paul songs - except for "Uh! All Night". Gene's songs are rife with clichés throughout the whole album. "Trial By Fire" is my favorite of his on the album, too. One of the first songs to which Bruce contributed. The NYC stop on this tour was my first ever concert. Very bare-bones stage, except for what I believe is the biggest KISS lighting logo to be used. Also marked the beginning of Gene wearing more blush, makeup and glitter than most of the women in the crowds. And, for whatever reason, with over a dozen albums of their own at this point, they're playing "Oh Susannah" and The Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again" at every show.
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Crazy Nights is Paul's "Let's see how high I can sing" album. Between "I'd Fight Hell To Hold You" and "My Way", it's a wonder his voice didn't blow out sooner than it did. I like/love most of Paul's stuff on this album. And, as far as non-makeup 80's albums go, this might be the best of Gene's contributions. Although, that's not saying much. As a band, they were chasing the trends way too much with this one. Definitely too polished sounding.
Asylum is possibly my favorite non-makeup album. Once again, love the Paul songs - except for "Uh! All Night". Gene's songs are rife with clichés throughout the whole album. "Trial By Fire" is my favorite of his on the album, too. One of the first songs to which Bruce contributed. The NYC stop on this tour was my first ever concert. Very bare-bones stage, except for what I believe is the biggest KISS lighting logo to be used. Also marked the beginning of Gene wearing more blush, makeup and glitter than most of the women in the crowds. And, for whatever reason, with over a dozen albums of their own at this point, they're playing "Oh Susannah" and The Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again" at every show.
Say what you want, but I really LOVE Uh! All Night :biggrin: Very fun song! Have I told that that riff intro reminds of DT's intro for "A New Beggining"? :o :hat
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There were a number of acts that opened on the Asylum tour (incl King Kobra and WASP?) but I assume you're referring to Black n Blue , a member of which was current axeman Tommy Thayer.
Didn't Gene produce Black n Blue's first album?
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I was wondering if I should check out any of those mid-80s KISS albums. Looking forward to seeing which one you consider being the best of those.
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There were a number of acts that opened on the Asylum tour (incl King Kobra and WASP?) but I assume you're referring to Black n Blue , a member of which was current axeman Tommy Thayer.
Well done, that is correct.
Apparently I have to dig deeper on the trivia. :) At least as we get up the list it'll be a little easier to put something challenging on the table.
My first Kiss tour. Will post pics when I get home this weekend.
I love Asylum. Ranked way too low. WAY TOO LOW. The Gene tunes are great.
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There were a number of acts that opened on the Asylum tour (incl King Kobra and WASP?) but I assume you're referring to Black n Blue , a member of which was current axeman Tommy Thayer.
Didn't Gene produce Black n Blue's first album?
He actually did their 3rd and 4th albums, in addition to Keel, Doro, EZO.
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I like Kiss. They were one of my first favorite bands and I still go back to them on occasion. I think they're generally underrated songwriters, performers, and players. Listen to a Kiss song and just focus on Gene Simmons' bass playing, for example. He's not John Myung but he has a very Paul McCartney-esque sense of rhythm and melody to his playing. Very enjoyable to listen to.
As for these albums:
Don't care for any of the solo albums, Ace's included (although his is decent).
Carnival of Souls is interesting but also very boring.
Crazy Nights is one of the worst.
Asylum has a lot of filler but the "hits" are all top notch. One of the highlights of the non makeup period.
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These two albums are paint by the numbers hair metal. Decent stuff, but nothing I go out of my way to play that often.
Completely agree. Though, my favorite 80's song is Tears Are Falling. Crazy Nights was just too polished for a KISS album.
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I agree on Crazy Nights' placement. Easily my least favourite album of that era of KISS. The title track is balls, and the only song I like is Reason To Live, which I like, but is fairly by numbers for Paul.
Asylum has Who Wants to Be Lonely, Uh All Night, and Tears are Falling, which are all GREAT songs, but aside from that meh. Tears are Falling is one of my favourite KISS songs, and they actually played it when I saw them in 2004. Nobody else in the audience knew the song, you could hear the crickets, but I loved it. :lol
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These two albums are paint by the numbers hair metal. Decent stuff, but nothing I go out of my way to play that often.
Yeah, that whole 1983-1989 period is something I don't really care for, it's too poppy for my taste. The makeup era is where it's at for me :tup
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I'm still taking Asylum and Crazy Nights over Hot In The Shade. And these albums are catching way too much flack here.
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I'm still taking Asylum and Crazy Nights over Hot In The Shade. And these albums are catching way too much flack here.
I would tend to agree
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Following this thread even though I'm not a KISS fan.
That said I do really like the acoustic version of Goin' Blind.
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I'm still taking Asylum and Crazy Nights over Hot In The Shade. And these albums are catching way too much flack here.
I'd put Hot in the Shade and Asylum about equal, both well over Crazy Nights.
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I need a computer!! :censored
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These two albums are paint by the numbers hair metal. Decent stuff, but nothing I go out of my way to play that often.
Yeah, that whole 1983-1989 period is something I don't really care for, it's too poppy for my taste. The makeup era is where it's at for me :tup
I don't know man, went on a listening spree of that period about a year ago and I thought Lick it up was pretty good, Creatures of the night as well....
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I'm still taking Asylum and Crazy Nights over Hot In The Shade. And these albums are catching way too much flack here.
I agree that HITS that bad.
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I'm still taking Asylum and Crazy Nights over Hot In The Shade. And these albums are catching way too much flack here.
I also agree. HITS is bad. I like the 80's kiss albums and I tend to like Animalize the best out of the Lick it Up - Animalize - Asylum - Crazy Nights streak.
Peter's solo album is awful, Gene's is slightly less awful. Paul's is excellent, Ace's even more so.
The Beth re-do with Eric Carr on ST&H was a very odd choice.
I also agree with CoS being ranked this low. If I wanted to listen to a shitty grunge band, I'd go to the used bin at a record store and browse through any of their selection of crappy 90's albums at $.99 apiece.
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These two albums are paint by the numbers hair metal. Decent stuff, but nothing I go out of my way to play that often.
Yeah, that whole 1983-1989 period is something I don't really care for, it's too poppy for my taste. The makeup era is where it's at for me :tup
I don't know man, went on a listening spree of that period about a year ago and I thought Lick it up was pretty good, Creatures of the night as well....
Tons of great tracks from that time period.
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Also, I saw this shirt in Cape Cod this past weekend:
(https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server2800/677b8/products/35749/images/106205/KB121f__39942.1405023945.1100.1100.jpg?c=2)
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These two albums are paint by the numbers hair metal. Decent stuff, but nothing I go out of my way to play that often.
Yeah, that whole 1983-1989 period is something I don't really care for, it's too poppy for my taste. The makeup era is where it's at for me :tup
I don't know man, went on a listening spree of that period about a year ago and I thought Lick it up was pretty good, Creatures of the night as well....
Indeed, Creatures is great. But that came out in 1982, so it's included in my favourite era ;)
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^^^^ That was drawn by a real Kiss fan - or someone with the album cover in front of them - because they captured the poses perfectly, even down to Gene's goofy foot thing with his clog, and Paul's standing on tip toe.
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^^^^ That was drawn by a real Kiss fan - or someone with the album cover in front of them - because they captured the poses perfectly, even down to Gene's goofy foot thing with his clog, and Paul's standing on tip toe.
Actually, it's an official (to some degree) t-shirt. They have one for every team.
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Also, I saw this shirt in Cape Cod this past weekend:
(https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server2800/677b8/products/35749/images/106205/KB121f__39942.1405023945.1100.1100.jpg?c=2)
As a resident of Red Sox Nation, I approve! :tup :metal
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^^^^ That was drawn by a real Kiss fan - or someone with the album cover in front of them - because they captured the poses perfectly, even down to Gene's goofy foot thing with his clog, and Paul's standing on tip toe.
Actually, it's an official (to some degree) t-shirt. They have one for every team.
Football too? I know my daughter would love that for the Patriots...
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I'm only seeing it for baseball teams.
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[this thread is actually moving fast] back to 'Smashes...' for a second: I had noted the 'channel' difference for vocals on 'Shout It Out Loud', DRC didn't have the 'oomph' of the original, 'Love Gun' vox mix was different, etc. Surprised that no mention was made, as I was stunned when I heard Eric Carr doing 'Beth'. The first time I listened to that song (other than a recent car commercial) since the 70s. I still cringe, but he was pretty good on it.
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That Kiss shirt is awesome!
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22. Psycho Circus (1998): A very difficult album for me, as I was so excited for this reunion. I saw the band multiple times without makeup, but was sort of wearing thin on the studio material, and I even got the chance to see them on their epic reunion homecoming at Madison Square Garden (the show I saw was the night before the version on the bonus disk in the Kissology III set). So a new album seemed like the best of all worlds. I like some of the songs – other than the title and chorus, “Psycho Circus” is an excellent song, “Within” is creepy Gene at his best, and “I Pledge Allegiance…” is vintage Paul “rawk and roll” - but as a lifelong fan, and half-assed musician, I knew on first listen that other than vocals, Ace was not an active participant, and Peter was basically non-existent. It wasn’t long before it became official: Kevin Valentine played all the drums except one song, and Tommy Thayer played most of the leads on the record (Ace only played lead on two songs). “You Wanted The Best” was supposed to be some sort of self-referential, self-celebratory anthem for the reunited band, but the song itself sucked, and the sentiment behind it fell flat once the truth came out. “I Finally Found My Way” is an overly clichéd show spot for Peter, but he didn’t even play drums on the song. I know most people don’t agree with me, but a lot of the bitching that Peter and Ace have done since falls largely on deaf ears for me, because they were more than willing to play along when the money was flowing in, but when Paul and Gene called BS on their antics and the money stopped, all of a sudden Paul and Gene are Beelzebub’s henchmen. Paul has since said that this album is not a favorite of his, as he famously clashed with the now-deceased Bruce Fairbairn. In fact, at one time, Paul vowed never to make another Kiss album again produced by someone else (and they haven't).
21. Revenge (1992): I’m going to hear about this, I just know it. But perhaps that’s why this album is here. It’s SUPPOSED to be the return to form: Bob Ezrin producing, Vinnie Vincent co-writing, stripped back sound, probably the best "band" that Kiss has ever had…and largely it is good, but for me it just tries too hard and doesn’t quite measure up to the expectations. Don’t get me wrong; I like it - “Unholy” is a legendary track, there are few outside writers, and Gene is present on this record in a way he hadn't been for years - but every high point seems to be balanced by something lesser, and while every album has it's clunkers, it seems like the low points here are more prominent. The subpar “Domino” was a single, the downright shitty “Spit” was played live, and the treacly "Every Time I Look At You" was also a single, for example, . I’m a big fan of “God Gave Rock’n’Roll To You II” despite the cheesy chorus; I just love when Gene and Paul sing together, and the melodies are strong. Also like the “Summertime Blues” quote in “I Just Wanna”. The tribute “Carr Jam” is sort of lost on me; it’s a curiosity, but I think the aforementioned “God…” was a much more fitting and apt tribute. The rest of the songs are strong, this is a good record, but it’s not one I come back to a lot and I'm not sure why. To me, it is above-average for everyone else, but just middle-of-the-pack Kiss.
Trivia: What is the only song on "Psycho Circus" that all four members actually play their instruments on?
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Nope, Revenge is amazing. I'd say it's easily their best album, no contest. A huge return to form after some weaker albums (and I love their '80s songs). Gene finally figured out what the hell he was doing after phoning it in for most of the '80s, Paul was still in top form, Bruce was rocking out hard, and Eric Singer was a monster drummer.
First four tracks of Psycho Circus were great, basically filler after that. I believe the answer to your question is Into the Void.
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Trivia: What is the only song on "Psycho Circus" that all four members actually play their instruments on?
Is it Into The Void? But You Wanted The Best sure sounds like it as well.
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I'm a big Revenge fan. KISS kind of lost me in the late 80's. I still bought the albums and went to the shows but I was losing interest as each year passed. Seeing the Unholy video was a "WOW" moment for me. Gene was back and I was hooked. I saw two shows on the ill-fated Revenge tour and even bought 3 copies of Alive III on vinyl (one red, one white, and one blue). The band sailed without direction (tribute album, Konventions) until the KISS Unplugged MTV Special which ultimately led to the reunion which the band had to do or it was over (at least the arena headlining tours were...the revenge tour was a bloodbath).
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Revenge is a killer album. Right up the top for me. Into The Void is the correct answer.
Trivia, what stripper was all over kingshmegland when she saw him singing the lyrics to this song on Revenge from the front row?
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Revenge is their best album. Bruce Kulick is amazing.
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ITT Stadler is woefully wrong about the quality of Revenge lol
Every Time I Look At You is a fantastic ballad. I daresay one of their best, if not their very best.
The rest of the album? On a scale from one to ten, Revenge kicks ass.
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Trivia, what stripper was all over kingshmegland when she saw him singing the lyrics to this song on Revenge from the front row?
Icysk8r?
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I thought stadler might get spanked for this one. :lol Revenge is definitely a top 5 album.
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Trivia, what stripper was all over kingshmegland when she saw him singing the lyrics to this song on Revenge from the front row?
Icysk8r?
:lol
Song dammit!
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I'm so lost.
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I defend my position on Revenge. I feel there is just too much whahibrido pickingant on that album. :)
I can't deny that the sound is excellent. I can't deny that it is the best "band" for Kiss. I can't deny that Paul is singing as well as he ever has (that scream at the start of Take It Off is world class, and his vocal on the verses in I Just Wanna are some of his best). But it's little stuff that ruins it for me. I already said I hate Spit and Domino. The intros to Tough Love and Heart of Chrome are almost identical. Kiss is not a band I listen to for lyrics ("Torpedo Girl!") but for some reason the cheeky lyrics on "Take It Off" and "I Just Wanna" bug me. It doesn't make sense even to me, but there you go.
I will say that Gene is otherwise in top form on this album; I LOVE his bass-playing generally and he is all over this album. "Paralyzed" is a great song.
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Domino is a killer song. 10 pounds of fun in a five pound bag.
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Take It Off is the quintessential celebration of T&A. It couldn't BE any more awesome, I think.
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Take It Off is the quintessential celebration of T&A. It couldn't BE any more awesome, I think.
And this is the song I had stripper glitter all over me. That's how you write a song for the loins.
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Icy was wearing glitter when it happened? Gross. ...or freakay! :zydar:
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Love both of those albums. Revenge is my favorite Kiss album and I thought Psycho Circus was way better than it should have been. I would expect something more to the quality of the last two Kiss albums, pathetic attempts at recapturing the 70s albums, but instead it was a solid sounding rock album that didn't seem to be trying too hard. Kind of lame that Ace and Peter are barely on it, but then again this was true for a lot of the later albums of that lineup in the 70s and 80s anyway.
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Love both of those albums. Revenge is my favorite Kiss album and I thought Psycho Circus was way better than it should have been. I would expect something more to the quality of the last two Kiss albums, pathetic attempts at recapturing the 70s albums, but instead it was a solid sounding rock album that didn't seem to be trying too hard. Kind of lame that Ace and Peter are barely on it, but then again this was true for a lot of the later albums of that lineup in the 70s and 80s anyway.
The latest two albums are what Psycho Circus should have been, just the band rocking out great tunes. Psycho Circus has nothing on either of them.
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Icy was wearing glitter when it happened? Gross. ...or freakay! :zydar:
I wonder what that kid is doing now. Don't even get me started on his weird beliefs!
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Love both of those albums. Revenge is my favorite Kiss album and I thought Psycho Circus was way better than it should have been. I would expect something more to the quality of the last two Kiss albums, pathetic attempts at recapturing the 70s albums, but instead it was a solid sounding rock album that didn't seem to be trying too hard. Kind of lame that Ace and Peter are barely on it, but then again this was true for a lot of the later albums of that lineup in the 70s and 80s anyway.
The latest two albums are what Psycho Circus should have been, just the band rocking out great tunes. Psycho Circus has nothing on either of them.
Well the last two albums don't have great tunes. :biggrin:
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Love both of those albums. Revenge is my favorite Kiss album and I thought Psycho Circus was way better than it should have been. I would expect something more to the quality of the last two Kiss albums, pathetic attempts at recapturing the 70s albums, but instead it was a solid sounding rock album that didn't seem to be trying too hard. Kind of lame that Ace and Peter are barely on it, but then again this was true for a lot of the later albums of that lineup in the 70s and 80s anyway.
The latest two albums are what Psycho Circus should have been, just the band rocking out great tunes. Psycho Circus has nothing on either of them.
Well the last two albums don't have great tunes. :biggrin:
They had a plenty of great tunes. :tup More than Psycho Circus had.
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Love both of those albums. Revenge is my favorite Kiss album and I thought Psycho Circus was way better than it should have been. I would expect something more to the quality of the last two Kiss albums, pathetic attempts at recapturing the 70s albums, but instead it was a solid sounding rock album that didn't seem to be trying too hard. Kind of lame that Ace and Peter are barely on it, but then again this was true for a lot of the later albums of that lineup in the 70s and 80s anyway.
The latest two albums are what Psycho Circus should have been, just the band rocking out great tunes. Psycho Circus has nothing on either of them.
I remember reading Gene and Paul saying Bruce Fairbairn was the wrong choice for the producer. Again Gene and Paul were swayed to use outside influences instead of all 4 of them in the trenches with an Eddie Krammer type producer.
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Love both of those albums. Revenge is my favorite Kiss album and I thought Psycho Circus was way better than it should have been. I would expect something more to the quality of the last two Kiss albums, pathetic attempts at recapturing the 70s albums, but instead it was a solid sounding rock album that didn't seem to be trying too hard. Kind of lame that Ace and Peter are barely on it, but then again this was true for a lot of the later albums of that lineup in the 70s and 80s anyway.
The latest two albums are what Psycho Circus should have been, just the band rocking out great tunes. Psycho Circus has nothing on either of them.
Well the last two albums don't have great tunes. :biggrin:
(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/images%2016_zpswxabrqse.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/images%2016_zpswxabrqse.jpg.html)
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Love both of those albums. Revenge is my favorite Kiss album and I thought Psycho Circus was way better than it should have been. I would expect something more to the quality of the last two Kiss albums, pathetic attempts at recapturing the 70s albums, but instead it was a solid sounding rock album that didn't seem to be trying too hard. Kind of lame that Ace and Peter are barely on it, but then again this was true for a lot of the later albums of that lineup in the 70s and 80s anyway.
The latest two albums are what Psycho Circus should have been, just the band rocking out great tunes. Psycho Circus has nothing on either of them.
I remember reading Gene and Paul saying Bruce Fairbairn was the wrong choice for the producer. Again Gene and Paul were swayed to use outside influences instead of all 4 of them in the trenches with an Eddie Krammer type producer.
Which probably influenced their decision to go self produced on the most recent albums. Some of the tracks on Psycho Circus sounded contrived to me, and not like KISS imo.
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I think I covered that in my blurb; Paul has been on record as saying the PC record was a disaster for him personally, and he fought early and often with Bruce Fairbairn. He later DID say he would never work with another producer again, or at least he wouldn't turn over the reigns like he did on PC.
I LOVE the last two records. Maybe. You'll see.
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There was a few leftovers from COS that Gene re-used. It was then that Paul told Gene years later that if they were going to do a studio album, he had to be all in. No side projects and work on the craftmanship of the songs. Which showed.
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There was a few leftovers from COS that Gene re-used. It was then that Paul told Gene years later that if they were going to do a studio album, he had to be all in. No side projects and work on the craftmanship of the songs. Which showed.
I find that if it's a good Gene album, it's going to be a good KISS album.
Was Within a leftover from COS? I like the song a lot, but it didn't fit that lineup at all, and it tanked so hard when they played it live with Ace and Peter.
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KISS really dropped the ball on Psycho Circus. The Black Album (and St. Anger) aside, I don't think I've ever been so disappointed with a CD. This was the return of the "Original KISS"...it could/should have been Rock and Roll Over or Love Gun on steroids. Maybe the fault lies with me for having such high expectations but you can't tell me that Stanley/Ezrin couldn't do better than I Finally Found My Way.
Then for the encore, they follow it up with a bad movie featuring an even worse brand new song. They should have quit while they were ahead and ended it after the Alive/Worldwide Tour...there was nowhere else to go but down.
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There was a few leftovers from COS that Gene re-used. It was then that Paul told Gene years later that if they were going to do a studio album, he had to be all in. No side projects and work on the craftmanship of the songs. Which showed.
I find that if it's a good Gene album, it's going to be a good KISS album.
Was Within a leftover from COS? I like the song a lot, but it didn't fit that lineup at all, and it tanked so hard when they played it live with Ace and Peter.
Yeah, it was ok live but Peter was a wreck on that tour and that drumming was not his style at all.
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I was very excited for a new KISS album with the original lineup but with PS we dint get that. Some good songs, some shit. I agree with Stadler on the ballad. Awful sappy shit.
Revenge was a great return to form after HitS. Not a bad song on it and plenty of great ones. The lyrics don't bother me, they'd been doing them for years. The tour was great too, though we didn't get the full stage in the uk iirc.
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Great list and reviews, Stadler! :tup
I´m on your side regarding Revenge. I would probably place it higher than Animalize and Hot in the Shade - but that´s probably all.
Monster - good. Sonic Boom - VERY good. :metal
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There was a few leftovers from COS that Gene re-used. It was then that Paul told Gene years later that if they were going to do a studio album, he had to be all in. No side projects and work on the craftmanship of the songs. Which showed.
I find that if it's a good Gene album, it's going to be a good KISS album.
Was Within a leftover from COS? I like the song a lot, but it didn't fit that lineup at all, and it tanked so hard when they played it live with Ace and Peter.
Yeah, it was ok live but Peter was a wreck on that tour and that drumming was not his style at all.
I wrote a whole piece and lost it, but suffice to say, I saw the MSG homecoming show on the reunion tour and Peter was ok, but Ace was hammered, you could tell. Then on the Aerosmith/Kiss tour, Ace was already gone, and Peter phoned in one of the worst shows I've ever seen ever by anyone. I'm convinced there was a drummer backstage or behind him covering his parts. it was when he had take to putting the "tear drop" on his makeup. Lame-o. I know Gene and Paul have the rep for doing the ca$h grab, but as a long time fan, I feel Ace and Peter have done far more to take advantage of the fans than Gene and Paul. Say what you want about Gene in his private life, or on record, but on stage, that guy DELIVERS. I have gotten my money's worth from that guy three times over for all he's left on stage when I saw them. Paul too.
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Ace is great when sober but Peter is just a wreck, in life and his playing. He's a guy that lays blame on everyone but himself.
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I have never had an issue with Psycho Circus, but Stadler..Revenge this low??
I played it on vacation, and it is easily a Top 10, maybe Top 5 Kiss album. Paul rules it, and even Gene's songs are cool. Not sure what the deal is here, bro.
I saw the club tour at Avalon in Boston as well as the proper tour in Worcester. Easily the best on the non makeup tours.
Stadler, please tell me your account was hacked.
Trivia: What album has been so woefully underrated by the OP that the rest of DTF fears that he has actually lost his mind? ;D
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:lol
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Trivia: What album has been so woefully underrated by the OP that the rest of DTF fears that he has actually lost his mind? ;D
:lol
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Ace is great when sober but Peter is just a wreck, in life and his playing. He's a guy that lays blame on everyone but himself.
If you've read his autobiography that is crystal clear. Complete fuck up. And it's the Jews fault. Grow up.
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Honestly I can't see how Psycho Circus can be called contrived while the last two albums can't. To me, the last two albums are the most contrived things the band has ever done, save for maybe The Elder (which is a fine album anyway). Psycho Circus just sounds like Kiss being Kiss, writing rock tunes with a modern flair, they've always done that. Sonic Boom and Monster sound like desperate attempts at rewriting Love Gun. Not to say those albums don't have good songs, I think Sonic Boom has solid moments, but both albums just sound like Kiss parody to me. I will save more of my whining about these albums for when Stadler gets to them, however. :p
Psycho Circus itself is a solid album. I don't love it, it starts to fall apart in the middle, but the first four songs are Kiss at their best. I think the last two songs are pretty interesting though. I particularly like how Journey Of a Thousand Years has a melody from Psycho Circus, a rare Kiss nugget!
I could do without I Finally Found My Way and We Are One (I would agree that these songs sound contrived), but honestly I don't have a problem with anything else on the album.
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I wrote a whole piece and lost it, but suffice to say, I saw the MSG homecoming show on the reunion tour and Peter was ok, but Ace was hammered, you could tell. Then on the Aerosmith/Kiss tour, Ace was already gone, and Peter phoned in one of the worst shows I've ever seen ever by anyone. I'm convinced there was a drummer backstage or behind him covering his parts. it was when he had take to putting the "tear drop" on his makeup. Lame-o. I know Gene and Paul have the rep for doing the ca$h grab, but as a long time fan, I feel Ace and Peter have done far more to take advantage of the fans than Gene and Paul. Say what you want about Gene in his private life, or on record, but on stage, that guy DELIVERS. I have gotten my money's worth from that guy three times over for all he's left on stage when I saw them. Paul too.
When KISS did their first show here after starting back up again, I wasn't going to go because I had zero interest in that lineup fumbling through the same songs. It was only when I found out they'd ditched Criss for Singer that I got a ticket. :tup
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What seems odd to me is that we have gotten this far, going from the bottom up, and we have already seen Revenge while somehow avoiding Music From the Elder.
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Psycho Circus: their first LP I purchased since 'Destroyer'. Loved the lenticular cover. Superb title track, really liked 'Within', and then it just kinda fizzled. It wasn't bad, just meh. Caught them in Grand Rapids on that tour, and had an absolute ball. I see where they were sued (and settled out of court) with Alice Cooper's publisher regarding 'Dreamin' plagiarizing 'I'm Eighteen'.
It wasn't until eons later that I read about all of the turbulence inside the band at that time.
'Revenge': 'I Just Wanna' and 'God Gave RnR To You' is on my Hits II. A fairly good 'return', though paint by numbers, and by that time my interest in that style of music had mostly passed.
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What seems odd to me is that we have gotten this far, going from the bottom up, and we have already seen Revenge while somehow avoiding Music From the Elder.
I know right? :lol And what about Unmasked?
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Unmasked is terrible....but The Elder is an absolutely AWESOME album. Completely underrated. Probably my all time favorite Kiss album.
But I'm sure we'll get to them.
I haven't joined the conversation so far, because I'm not so big a Kiss fan that I'm a total completist, and we've been talking about albums I'm mostly unfamiliar with. But I know everything from the debut up thru Animalize extremely well.
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The Elder would be a lot more awesome without Mr. Blackwell.
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And what about Unmasked?
What? The classic album with great, powerful rock songs like Sandy and She´s So European? :metal
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The Elder would be a lot more awesome without Mr. Blackwell.
Dude!!! That's one of my favs!!!
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And what about Unmasked?
What? The classic album with great, powerful rock songs like Sandy and She´s So European? :metal
Hey its "One of a kind". ;)
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Unmasked is terrible....but The Elder is an absolutely AWESOME album. Completely underrated. Probably my all time favorite Kiss album.
But I'm sure we'll get to them.
I haven't joined the conversation so far, because I'm not so big a Kiss fan that I'm a total completist, and we've been talking about albums I'm mostly unfamiliar with. But I know everything from the debut up thru Animalize extremely well.
Both the Elder and Unmasked are top tier for me.
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And what about Unmasked?
What? The classic album with great, powerful rock songs like Sandy and She´s So European? :metal
Hey its "One of a kind". ;)
All in her mind!
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Honestly I can't see how Psycho Circus can be called contrived while the last two albums can't.
Because Psycho Circus is billed as the "original four" back together, and two of them can't even be said to be phoning it in. At least the last two are four excellent musicians (well, at least three) and they are all playing their instruments and writing the songs. No Desmond Child, no Holly Knight, no "ghost" drummers, no "Bruce Kulick even though it says Ace". Maybe it's me, but PC is one of the few Kiss albums I just flat out feel ripped off about. I feel like Peter and Ace gave me the middle finger.
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20. Animalize (1984): Revenge was the album I should like and don’t, and this is the album I should hate and don’t. I was really digging back into Kiss at this point, being a high school senior when this was released, and having met the band on the Lick It Up tour, and having a couple really cool, and dare I say hip records to build on, so I was ready for this, and while I was as confused as the next guy regarding lead guitars (no Vinnie, but it later turned out that future guitarist Bruce Kulick played on two tracks) I thought the songs were strong. I didn’t care for Mark St. John’s flash style, and this was the first of the Simmons “Hollywood” albums, but those weren’t really trends yet. I have a soft spot for Gene’s throwaway songs and the album finishes strong with two songs co-written with “Paul McCartney” from Beatlemania (Mitch Weissman), “While The City Sleeps” and “Murder In High Heels”. Paul is in aggressive form, kicking as (and dropping a hidden F-bomb) in “Get All You Can Take”. It’s basically all the non-makeup Kiss clichés before they became clichés. The one downside is that the tours became a little rote; shorter sets, more rapping from Paul. This is, though, the best selling of the non-makeup albums.
19. Killers (1982): The four songs from this set – released initially in Europe in 1981, following “The Elder” – presage the band’s first come back record “Creatures of the Night” They are not as strong as the songs that would come later, but after the relative misdirection of The Elder, they were more concise and direct and better reflected the Kiss ethos. In fact, “Nowhere to Run” (my favorite of the four) sounds straight off Paul’s solo album, and was mooted for inclusion on Creatures. Bob Kulick – Bruce’s brother – returns again (he played on the Alive II studio tracks) to play lead on these songs. Paul played bass on at least three of the four.
18. Hot In The Shade (1989): I will probably take a lot of heat for this placement - especially compared to Revenge - but I really like this album, I just do. It’s got flaws: it’s too long, it’s not very diverse, and I could give a shit about “Tito”. But I think the songwriting on this is stellar and the performances are good. I generally prefer Kiss when it’s more insular; yes there are co-writers on this, yes, Desmond Child makes his obligatory appearance, but the album is largely written by the band and long-time “inside” collaborators (Vini Poncia, who produced Dynasty and Unmasked, and Tommy Thayer). The album is rumored to be a collection of demos polished up for release, which explains why so many guests appear on the record: Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer (who would both join Kiss later), Kevin Valentine (frequent “ghost” drummer for the band), but even with that, it sounds more “Kiss” than the glitzy “Crazy Nights”. Even the choir in “Silver Spoon” just sounds right. I am very much a “melody” guy, and the melodies on this album are heavy but stick with you for days. (I’m still singing the chorus from the aforementioned “Silver Spoon”, and Paul gives it 100% on the “whoa-oa-oa-OA-oa” part). This was the tour where they went back to basics, playing smaller venues and playing more of the classic Kiss songs, so it’s as important for what it led to - Revenge - as what it was, but I do come back to this frequently, and I seem to find something new each time I do.
Trivia: “Hide Your Heart” was rejected by the band for “Crazy Nights” in '87, and was later given to Bonnie “Total Eclipse of the Heart” Tyler in '88. Then in ’89, it appeared on FOUR albums, including Hot in The Shade by Kiss and an album by a singer named Robin Beck; can you name the other two artists (bonus for the albums)?
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One was Ace Frehley. The other Molly Hatchet. The Robin Beck album is a cracker.
HitS is Rubbish, although there are 3-4 good songs, HYH being one of them.
Killers - poor Greatest Hits album, the new songs just about save it.
Animalise is just behind Creatures and Lick it Up as best of the 80s albums.
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Honestly I can't see how Psycho Circus can be called contrived while the last two albums can't.
Because Psycho Circus is billed as the "original four" back together, and two of them can't even be said to be phoning it in. At least the last two are four excellent musicians (well, at least three) and they are all playing their instruments and writing the songs. No Desmond Child, no Holly Knight, no "ghost" drummers, no "Bruce Kulick even though it says Ace". Maybe it's me, but PC is one of the few Kiss albums I just flat out feel ripped off about. I feel like Peter and Ace gave me the middle finger.
That's fair. I guess it doesn't bother me much because a lot of those things are present on a bunch of Kiss albums. They had used outside singers before and who knows who plays what on the later albums from the original lineup. I'm younger, so I listened to PC after the reunion lineup was already a thing of the past and they were dressing Eric Singer as the Catman (I think Ace Frehley was still in the band, I can't remember so it didn't really matter to me who was on the album.
As for the next three albums, I don't really like any of them. HitS had a great tour video on Kissology 2 and the songs they play from that album on there are great, everything else I could do without. Not a short album either. Animalize has one or two songs I like.
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Animalize is pretty great. Unashamedly '80s for better or worse, with lots of great heavier rock songs. Mark St John was awful, and I can only laugh at his widdley leads, but it's also part of the charm of it for me.
I like Hot in the Shade a lot too, but I agree it's too long. Rock albums shouldn't have that many songs, especially KISS! Cut it down to 10 or 11 tracks, and you've got yourself a much better album.
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Yeah way too much filler on shade; a few very good tracks though!
I really like Animalize. The triple threat of Creatures, Lick it Up and Animalize are my favorite three album run from Kiss
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HITS could be the worst album for me. Read My Body is "the worst KISS song" ever!
Animalize is the best 80's album. Full of piss and vinegar. I love that album.
It's fun to hear the Queen sing "Burn Bitch, Burn".
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Read My Body is by far their worst song. And they have some bad ones.
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Read My Body ain't great, but it ain't that bad. It's KISS. They've done far worse.
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Read My Body ain't great, but it ain't that bad. It's KISS. They've done far worse.
Pretty much the worst. Peter's solo album and CoS aside.
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Read My Body ain't great, but it ain't that bad. It's KISS. They've done far worse.
Pretty much the worst. Peter's solo album and CoS aside.
And Unmasked, plus a lot of the filler '80s tracks. It's average, but it's not that bad.
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Animalize has always been one of my favorites. HITS had always been one of my least favorites.
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Killers is the most influential "album" for me as it introduced me to the band , was my first ever album and I loved 3 of the 4 extra tracks which remain favorites to this day.
Animalize was an album I never bothered with much for some reason - enjoyable but didn't find myself coming back to it.
HITS was a skipathon for me - 3 or 4 tracks I listened to regularly. I would definitely rate it below Crazy Nights.
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Read My Body is by far their worst song. And they have some bad ones.
But this should explain things: it's not a great song by any stretch, but I can name ten off the top of my head that are worse:
- Hooligan
- Dirty Livin'
- Shandi
- Spit
- Every Time I Look At You
- I Finally Found My Way
- My Way
- Rain
- All of "Peter Criss"
- Hold Me, Touch Me
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Spit and Every Time I Look at You are great songs, you peasant! :getoffmylawn:
I have no issue with the rest of your list.
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Peter Criss, Crazy Nights, HITS, Carnival of Souls and Monster are the worst KISS albums but as bad as they are, I can still find 2 or three tracks on each one (maybe not Peter's solo album) that I like.
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Listened to HITS again yesterday and its indeed very patchy.
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Christ, you really took one for the team there. My condolences. ;)
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Read My Body is by far their worst song. And they have some bad ones.
But this should explain things: it's not a great song by any stretch, but I can name ten off the top of my head that are worse:
- Hooligan
- Dirty Livin'
- Shandi
- Spit
- Every Time I Look At You
- I Finally Found My Way
- My Way
- Rain
- All of "Peter Criss"
- Hold Me, Touch Me
I would take all of those songs over Read My Body, PC's solo album included I think. It would be close on Rain and I've Finally Found...
Hold me touch me is an awesome ballad.
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I agree with Blob's take on Hot In The Shade.
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- Shandi
I love this one, it's very cute. :azn:
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Read My Body is by far their worst song. And they have some bad ones.
But this should explain things: it's not a great song by any stretch, but I can name ten off the top of my head that are worse:
- Hooligan
- Dirty Livin'
- Shandi
- Spit
- Every Time I Look At You
- I Finally Found My Way
- My Way
- Rain
- All of "Peter Criss"
- Hold Me, Touch Me
I like all of the bolded tracks, especially My Way.
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Read My Body is by far their worst song. And they have some bad ones.
But this should explain things: it's not a great song by any stretch, but I can name ten off the top of my head that are worse:
- Hooligan
- Dirty Livin'
- Shandi
- Spit
- Every Time I Look At You
- I Finally Found My Way
- My Way
- Rain
- All of "Peter Criss"
- Hold Me, Touch Me
I like all of the bolded tracks, especially My Way.
I like Hooligan too.
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Yeah, that's cool. I don't think it's great, but it sure as hell ain't the suckage that Read My Body is.
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You mean the Def Leppard rip off.
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I like Hooligan too.
Hooligan. Won't go to school again.
Mofo, please.
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"Can't even spell my name". :metal It's a ripper autobiography too.
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Now Stadler, you can't attack the shit lyrics of Hooligan in an attempt to defend the shit lyrics in READ my body.
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I'll speak up in defense of Hooligan. LOVE that song.
I like the 35 Chevy on a 55 frame.
Maybe I just have a soft spot for Love Gun because it was my first. If there's a weak track from that album, I would say it was the cover of And Then She Kissed Me.
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I always thought Hooligan was a pretty decent tune.
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Hooligan is the 9th best song on the album. It's just an ok song.
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And Then She Kissed Me.
WTF is that? What a suck job!
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Read My Body ain't great, but it ain't that bad. It's KISS. They've done far worse.
IMO, "Read My Body" is pretty much the worst song they've every written. The only other one I put in the same stratosphere as that one is "Take Me Down Below". There's nothing creepier than these 60 year old dudes singing those lyrics. I'm not expecting philosophy from my KISS lyrics. But, they gotta be a little better than those!
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Never heard of that song before, but I have completely ignored the last two albums.
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Never heard of that song before, but I have completely ignored the last two albums.
Tim, why? They are strong albums. Back to basics for Kiss.
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Never heard of that song before, but I have completely ignored the last two albums.
It's an awful, awful song that makes "Going Blind"'s "I'm 93, you're 16" lyrical imagery seem deep.
Monster is light years ahead of Sonic Boom. But, it's still a far cry from their best. Both albums have a handful of good songs. The difference being, on Monster, some of those in the handful are Gene songs, too. Monster has Gene's best writing on a KISS album (excluding Carnival of Souls) in probably 30 years. Both albums are a little too formulaic for my liking. Tommy gets his Ace clone song about space. Eric gets his "All For The..." song - "All For The Glory" on Sonic Boom, "All For The Love of Rock And Roll" on Monster. And, both albums have one Gene/Paul lead vocal split song.
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Never heard of that song before, but I have completely ignored the last two albums.
Tim, why? They are strong albums. Back to basics for Kiss.
Good question. I love Paul Stanley too. But I don't know. I guess I've never accepted Eric dressing as Peter and Thayer dressing as Ace.
I just can't get behind it, and besides that, I just haven't had any interest.
Dumb reasoning I know.
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try them. tell me what you think. I think you'll like them.
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Alright, but don't hold your breath! ;D
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:lol
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"Shout Mercy" is a Top 10 Kiss song all time for me. LOVE that song.
Now Stadler, you can't attack the shit lyrics of Hooligan in an attempt to defend the shit lyrics in READ my body.
This is, of course, absolutely true. Because I love some of their songs that make absolutely ZERO sense. "Goin' Blind" for one (also a Top Ten song for me).
I don't know; Peter's lyrics and vocal phrasings just rub me the wrong way. He is cheesy in a different way (like the soft spoken "To you, babay" at the end of "I Finally Found My Way"). If anyone hasn't figured it out, I really don't like him very much for being the original drummer in one of my favorite bands ever.
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King, you can exhale now because after reading THIS:
"Shout Mercy" is a Top 10 Kiss song all time for me. LOVE that song.
I checked it out.
The next breath you take could be your last! :lol
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I just listened to "Read My Body" again, and for the life of me, I don't get the hate. It's not "Love Gun" or "Detroit Rock City", I will grant you, but it's fairly innocuous. Plus I dig the little Zeppelin quote during the fade out.
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Actually, when this thread is all said and done, it will be interesting to see everyone's own Top 10 KISS Songs. I'm sure it will be pretty varied.
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I just listened to "Read My Body" again, and for the life of me, I don't get the hate. It's not "Love Gun" or "Detroit Rock City", I will grant you, but it's fairly innocuous. Plus I dig the little Zeppelin quote during the fade out.
For obvious reasons, the fade out is the best part of that song. Paul should've stopped with the spoken/rapped lyrics at "All Hell's Breaking Loose".
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"Shout Mercy" is a Top 10 Kiss song all time for me. LOVE that song.
Now Stadler, you can't attack the shit lyrics of Hooligan in an attempt to defend the shit lyrics in READ my body.
This is, of course, absolutely true. Because I love some of their songs that make absolutely ZERO sense. "Goin' Blind" for one (also a Top Ten song for me).
I don't know; Peter's lyrics and vocal phrasings just rub me the wrong way. He is cheesy in a different way (like the soft spoken "To you, babay" at the end of "I Finally Found My Way"). If anyone hasn't figured it out, I really don't like him very much for being the original drummer in one of my favorite bands ever.
I'm with you on Goin' Blind. Great song on a great album.
I'm no PC fan either, though I don't mind his voice. Don't read his autobiography, you'll want to kill him. I did.
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I promised some concert pictures.
Asylum Tour
December 22, 1985
Providence Civic Center
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/Kiss4.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/Kiss4.jpg.html)
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/Kiss3.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/Kiss3.jpg.html)
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/Kiss2.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/Kiss2.jpg.html)
Crazy Nights Tour
December 12, 1987
Providence Civic Center
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/Kiss6.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/Kiss6.jpg.html)
The band singing White Christmas:
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/Kiss5.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/Kiss5.jpg.html)
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classic pictures!!
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I just listened to "Read My Body" again, and for the life of me, I don't get the hate. It's not "Love Gun" or "Detroit Rock City", I will grant you, but it's fairly innocuous. Plus I dig the little Zeppelin quote during the fade out.
That's what I'm saying! It's not great, but I have absolutely no idea why it's being singled out as the worst thing KISS has done, when they've done much worse things. :lol
Take Me Down Below is a good song. So is Shout Mercy.
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Great to read this, even if I don't agree with everything. ;)
I thought this might be interesting for all you old school KISS fans: Paul Stanley and Ace Frehley sharing the stage yet again for a music video (and a reeeeeeally awkward intro :lol ):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypw1QVnuv74
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Thanks guys....now I have Hooligan stuck in my head. ALL. DAMN. DAY.
It's not a great song, but it is an earworm...
"I MEAN LIKE I'M SOOOO BAAAAD!!!"
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Let me guess, Destroyer and Alive 1 are going to be next? :lol
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Let me guess, Destroyer and Alive 1 are going to be next? :lol
No live albums in this list, so at least we can avoid that. :lol
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Nope...
17. Gene Simmons (1978): I didn’t intend for there to be such a stark contrast between the eras, but I let the results fall where they would and didn’t want to artificially pump up the later, non-makeup or reunion albums. So this is where the real rubber hits the road, and the distinctions get a lot harder. This is the solo album I initially listened to the most, since it was so different from Kiss, but had all the elements, if that makes sense. Gene’s voice – which I love – is all over it, and while some of the songs sound dated these days, at the time I was pleasantly surprised at how diverse this was from the guy that seemed to be such a one-note guy generally. I’m a massive Beatles fan (as is Gene) so many of the songs were right in my wheelhouse, and having a version of “See You In My Dreams” with Rick Nielson from Cheap Trick on it was gold. I was bummed that Gene didn’t play more bass (I love his bass playing; perhaps that is why so many of the later-era albums are lower; he didn’t play bass on a lot of them), but Neil Jason does a good job capturing Gene’s vibe. I could do without the creepy, cheese of “Living In Sin”, though to be honest; it’s the one thing I dislike about Gene distilled down to 3:50. I swear to this day that is Paul on the intro to “See You In Your Dreams”, making him the only member of Kiss to appear on another member’s solo album.
16. Love Gun (1977): One of the original six, but in my opinion, by far the weakest. Well known for the title track (one of Paul’s favorite Kiss songs) and Ace’s vocal debut (“Shock Me”), the album also featured several middling songs that later appeared on Alive II, including “Christine Sixteen”, “I Stole Your Love” and – amazingly, since it was never actually performed live - “Tomorrow And Tonight”. I like the other songs, but they’re a shade silly even for Kiss, and while I can look past the lyrics, it’s more that the songs themselves feel a little light weight. Even the cover, “Then She Kissed Me” (a gender reversal from the original) seems a little lacking for the self-proclaimed “Hottest Band In The World”. Having said that, at the age of 12 or 13, the paper “gun” in the album was cool (until it ripped after about the third try) and to this day, the “KISS” in red blood letters on the record inner sleeve was beyond cool.
Trivia: Depending on who you ask, either two or three people played piano on the "original six" Kiss albums. One such appearance is on Love Gun; who played the piano? Second trivia: everyone knows Eddie and Alex Van Halen played on the demo for "Christine Sixteen" (and Ace copied the solo for the final version). What was the OTHER song that the VH brothers demo'd for Gene?
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So Stadler, you're obviously a big Gene guy, so you are granted some leeway on his album's placement. Personally, I think it's a suck fest. ;D
But I do agree with you on Love Gun being the weakest of the Original 6.
And from what I can tell, we're close to the same age, but I never was too interested in the paper gun, but I did stare at that cover for hours on end!
Also, I still have my Love Gun (and Destroyer) jigsaw puzzles.
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Trivia: Depending on who you ask, either two or three people played piano on the "original six" Kiss albums. One such appearance is on Love Gun; who played the piano? Second trivia: everyone knows Eddie and Alex Van Halen played on the demo for "Christine Sixteen" (and Ace copied the solo for the final version). What was the OTHER song that the VH brothers demo'd for Gene?
1. Eddie Kramer
2. Weren't there three songs? Christeen Sixteen, Got Love For Sale and Tunnel of Love?
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I don't mind the Gene album. I like that it's not what you would xpect. I love the out of phase intro burning up with fever.
I never really like See You in Your Dreams and prefer the original to this version.
I like Love Gun much more than you. I'd put it above RnRO and DtK., maybe even Destroyer. The only low point is TSKM.
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Gene is an album I barely play. There are only a few songs I like.
Love Gun comes out swinging but gasses out in the end. Though half of the album is killer.
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I like Love Gun much more than you. I'd put it above RnRO and DtK., maybe even Destroyer. The only low point is TSKM.
Now that you mention it, Love Gun really isn't any worse than RnRO. That's pretty weak too. And while DTK is easily the worst of the 1st three, I'd still take it over RnRO and LG.
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Love Gun is unquestionably the weakest of the six. RnRO is definitely better. For me, they go like this:
Hotter than Hell
Kiss
Rock and Roll Over
Destroyer
Dressed to Kill
Love Gun
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As I mentioned earlier, Love Gun was my first, so I have a soft spot for it. I actually think Destroyer is way overrated....Love Gun (to me) is the last hurrah of the classic era. If I remember correctly, it is also the final album on which all four members actually performed until PC. (It's my understanding that Peter only performed on maybe 1-2 track on Dynasty and didn't actually perform at all on Unmasked)
Come to think of it...did I miss something? I guess I can see how Love Gun might be low to some people....but lower than Unmasked? Or did I miss it? There are 1 or 2 saving graces to Unmasked, but for the most part, that album is bloody awful. My personal least favorite of the albums I've heard.
Back to Love Gun, I will never forget how surprised I was when I Stole Your Love first hit my speakers. I mean, it just seems like a rock song now, but that was a *really heavy* song for it's time. I still think that is the most "metal" track the original band ever did...with Parasite being a close second.
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Love Gun is unquestionably the weakest of the six. RnRO is definitely better. For me, they go like this:
Hotter than Hell
Kiss
Rock and Roll Over
Destroyer
Dressed to Kill
Love Gun
Mine would go:
Hotter Than Hell
Kiss
Dressed to Kill
Love Gun
Rock n Roll Over
Destroyer
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I actually think Destroyer is way overrated...
I agree - some legendary tracks but lots of filler IMO.
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I actually think Destroyer is way overrated...
I agree - some legendary tracks but lots of filler IMO.
I agree. It has Detroit Rock City, God of Thunder, Shout it Out Loud, and I guess Beth if you're into that sort of thing. The rest, no thanks. Love Gun is the stronger album overall imo, and it's also not a consistent album by any means.
Because all of the cool kids are doing it-
Kiss
Rock n Roll Over
Hotter Than Hell (would be second if the production didn't suck huge donkey balls)
Love Gun
Destroyer
Dressed to Kill
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I actually think Destroyer is way overrated....
Thank God I'm not the only one.
Love gun is solid but a bit of a mess and my 2nd least favorite of the classic era. Some of the songs are perfect, some are barely even average. I love Christine sixteen, Shock me and I recall Got love for sale being pretty great. However, tracks like Plaster caster, Then she kissed me and even Tomorrow and tonight are nowhere near being convincing, in-your-face or good to rock out to. Hooligan isn't bad, I dig some of it except for the chorus.
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First 6?
Hotter Than Hell
Love Gun
KISS (might be higher with a better production)
Dressed To Kill
Destroyer
RnRO
Destroyer and Dressed to Kill probably switch places a bit. I'm more likely to play DtK tbh.
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16. Love Gun (1977): One of the original six, but in my opinion, by far the weakest. Well known for the title track (one of Paul’s favorite Kiss songs) and Ace’s vocal debut (“Shock Me”), the album also featured several middling songs that later appeared on Alive II, including “Christine Sixteen”, “I Stole Your Love” and – amazingly, since it was never actually performed live - “Tomorrow And Tonight”. I like the other songs, but they’re a shade silly even for Kiss, and while I can look past the lyrics, it’s more that the songs themselves feel a little light weight. Even the cover, “Then She Kissed Me” (a gender reversal from the original) seems a little lacking for the self-proclaimed “Hottest Band In The World”. Having said that, at the age of 12 or 13, the paper “gun” in the album was cool (until it ripped after about the third try) and to this day, the “KISS” in red blood letters on the record inner sleeve was beyond cool.
This was where they forever got side railed. The lyrics were way too directed at 10-15 year olds, and the makeup of the concert goers began to reflect this as well. There was no hint of darkness in the music or the band, just fluff and pop. As to music, one could combine half of RnR Over with Love Gun, and you'd have a pretty good album.
Gene's LP....I did listen to one track, and that was a couple of years ago when reading their history: 'If You Wish Upon A Star'. I mean, wow, if one talks about 'cheese' factors, that would be as gouda one of any to list at the top.....
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Gene's LP....I did listen to one track, and that was a couple of years ago when reading their history: 'If You Wish Upon A Star'. I mean, wow, if one talks about 'cheese' factors, that would be as gouda one of any to list at the top.....
I feel like my Top Ten is going to create chaos. Hyperbole, of course, but still. There are a number of comments here that DIRECTLY contradict how I feel about the Kiss Katalogue.
I didn't say it, but there's "cheesy" lyrics, and then there are "lazy" lyrics. We've all said this multiple times, but you can't really be into Kiss then criticize the lyrics. I can live with crappy lyrics if they're honest; I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE the music to Plaster Caster, but I felt like Gene phoned in those lyrics, and wrote them in about 3:00 (about the length of time it took him to sing it).
As for Gene, I get it, it's not for everyone, but it's not really fair or accurate to listen to one song, make it "When You Wish..." and then dismiss the entire endeavor. That song was not to be taken without some backstory. It was a statement as much as anything; poor Jewish kid, born in Israel to a single Holocaust survivor, comes to America at the age of 8 not speaking a word of English, and by the time he's 25 he's LEGEND in every possible way someone can be a legend... if you were to name the people that are TRULY living "The American Dream"TM, Simmons has to be in the top three. In his words: "When I first heard that song I could barely speak English but I knew the words were true. Anybody can have what they want, the world and life can give its rewards to anyone."
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A rather like Plaster Caster. I think the Lemonheads version from KMA was alright, even.
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First 6?
Hotter Than Hell
Love Gun
KISS (might be higher with a better production)
Dressed To Kill
Destroyer
RnRO
Destroyer and Dressed to Kill probably switch places a bit. I'm more likely to play DtK tbh.
Wow! KISS is the album whose production you have a problem with?!? HTH has to be one of the worst-sounding albums of all-time. Even Richie Wise and Kevin Kerner feel that way. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
If I had to give my order, it'd be:
Dressed To Kill - I know it's barely 30 minutes long and it has the WAAAAY overplayed RaRAN. But, to me, that album is full of strong deep cuts. And, "Getaway" is a great Peter song.
Hotter Than Hell - Sounds like sh*t. But, the songs are really good.
KISS - Has my favorite KISS song ("Black Diamond"). But, between "Kissin' Time" and "Love Theme From KISS", it doesn't quite stack up to my top 2.
Rock And Roll Over - Pretty good rock album all the way through.
Destroyer - Good album but "Great Expectations", "Beth" and "Do You Love Me?" (never liked that song) bring it down.
Love Gun - I like Side 1. Don't ever need to hear anything from Side 2 again.
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Agreed, HTH's production is muddy and awful, but it's still my favorite Kiss album.
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Agreed, HTH's production is muddy and awful, but it's still my favorite Kiss album.
It has so many great songs on it, but I always favour the live versions of those songs though because of the awful production. The production on the first album I think is quite good. It lacks punch and grit, but it has great clarity.
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Just reviewing what albums are left at this point, there's no doubt that some minds will be blown. I'm curious to see where Dynasty ranks in this list. I'm guessing it'll probably be one of the next 2 albums. But, who knows?!? I never envisioned Sonic Boom making it this far either.
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I rank both Dynasty and Sonic Boom highly as KISS albums, so I'm glad they are yet to come. :tup
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i don't think Love Gun is the worst of the six, but it's definitely in the bottom half.
Rock and Roll Over
Hotter than Hell
Kiss
Destroyer
Love Gun
Dressed to Kill
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Taking a look at Dynasty's track listing, it still surprises me that, as far gone (chemically speaking) as Ace probably was at this point, he still had more songs than Gene. I wonder if that had more to do with their belief in his songs or with them trying to keep him from leaving. Both Dynasty and Unmasked have 3 Ace tunes.
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Wow. I love Destroyer. Looks like most here don't rank it as high as I would.
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Wow. I love Destroyer. Looks like most here don't rank it as high as I would.
I would say a lot has to do with just being burned out on the album. They've probably played half the album every night for the last 5-10 years. I absolutely love "Detroit Rock City". But, if I'm looking for something to listen to, I'd probably seek out "Magic Touch" or "Tonight You Belong To Me" first.
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Honestly the production kind of ruins it for me. I get what they were trying to do, but I prefer a more raw Kiss sound. Plus there's a bit too much filler for me in the middle.
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And that's what I believe most Kiss fans would say. It's not raw enough. Though R&RO is my favorite album.
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I don't mind the production overall, but I do much prefer the more raw rock sound for their style. Mostly it just comes down to not having many good songs, and too many tracks not sounding like KISS.
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Agreed, HTH's production is muddy and awful, but it's still my favorite Kiss album.
Amen, brother.
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What is the deal with the HTH production anyway? I always found it bizarre that the debut and DtK both sound hood while the one in between between is demo tape quality. Is there a story for that?
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What is the deal with the HTH production anyway? I always found it bizarre that the debut and DtK both sound hood while the one in between between is demo tape quality. Is there a story for that?
They relocated from NYC to Los Angeles to record it. New studio. The producers wanted to experiment with the sound and make it sound different from the first album. Blah blah blah. Richie Wise and Kenny Kerner have both discussed this album on various podcasts.
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Wow. I love Destroyer. Looks like most here don't rank it as high as I would.
It has been my favorite KISS album for years. It was the first one I ever listened to from start to finish. Detroit Rock City, God of Thunder, and Shout it Out Loud are killer tracks.
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Agreed, HTH's production is muddy and awful, but it's still my favorite Kiss album.
The quality of the songs rises above the production.
And yeah, I guess I burned out on the songs on KISS as most are still the backbone of everything they do. I love the deep cuts that never get played.
And I'm happy that Dynasty and unmasked haven't been ditched yet. I love both those albums. Ok it's not the direction KISS should have gone but I love the songwriting.
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Here are my favorite KISS songs from their 70s albums. It's actually hard to just pick ten.
Black Diamond (Above and beyond my favorite KISS song)
The rest are in no discernible order.
Parasite
Rock and Roll All Nite
She
Detroit Rock City
God of Thunder
Shout it Out Loud
Calling Dr. Love
Love Gun
Nothin' To Lose
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I'm not going to post my top ten songs from the original six, since I don't want to give anything away, but suffice to say, going from 15 to 10 is almost impossible for me.
My favorite from each album is:
Deuce
Let Me Go, Rock and Roll
She
Shout It Out Loud
Makin' Love
Love Gun
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I was so happy when they brought back Makin' Love on the HITS tour.
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I was so happy when they brought back Makin' Love on the HITS tour.
That and "I Stole Your Love" coming back were that tour's highlights for me.
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BTW, Stadler, I hope we're not stealing any thunder throwing out rankings and stuff like this in your thread.
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NO WAY!!! I love it and that's why I started this, to get some discussion going! Bring it on!!
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15. Ace Frehley (1978): This album gets a lot of love from the fanbase, and I totally understand it, even if I don’t exactly share it. It’s probably the most Kiss-like, top to bottom, but that’s both its blessing and its curse. I love Ace’s voice – there’s literally no one that sounds like him – but for me, he’s like garlic or cumin: a little goes a long way. When he has two or three songs on an album, in between songs by Gene and Paul, it REALLY works, but here it starts to sound “same-y”. LOVE Fractured Mirror, the instrumental, and thought it was by far the strongest song on the record (I played it to death), and I really like the “drone-y” vibe to both “Snowblind” (one of the best uses of a guitar synthesizer I can name) and “Ozone”. As is typical with me, the biggest hit - "New York Groove" - is the song I like least, and I feel it’s more novelty than real song, and I can't stand the drum sound and the vocal phrasings ("Here I am..."). Some very good guitar work overall, though, and this album more than any wishes that the band took the three or four best Paul songs, the three or four best Gene songs, and the three best Ace songs and made another Kiss album in '78.
14. Monster (2012): This is an album that, along with Sonic Boom, gets a lot of flack. But if you’re down with the Kiss ethos – meat and potatoes, loud guitars, melodic vocals, and a lot of sex – this album delivers. Not every song is a winner – I like the song, but I’ll concede “Freak” is a little contrived in the same way that most of “Carnival of Souls” is contrived - and it is a heavier record than Sonic Boom, but it’s solid from top to bottom. “Shout Mercy” is a Top Ten Kiss song for me, and I REALLY like the Gene songs on this record, especially “Wall of Sound” and “The Devil Is Me”. He put in the effort, especially with his bass playing (all indications are it is him playing on most of the songs) and really, that’s all I ever ask of him. Tommy Thayer co-writes 9 of the 12 songs on this record, and I’m starting to feel that he pulls his weight in a way that Ace never did, even if perhaps Tommy’s playing isn’t as groundbreaking as Ace’s was. I didn’t succumb to pressure on this, but I will admit to dropping this several places after re-listening to it in the last few days in the context of the rest of the catalogue. I liked it a lot when it first came out – and still do – but it’s not quite as strong top to bottom as Sonic Boom, and it hasn’t, over time, replaced any of the top ten (though I have, in the past, called it a “Top Ten Kiss Album”; it’s not). Regardless, I'd like more of this, please! How about another album in 2017!!!
Trivia: Speaking of “Freak”, according to Gene, what mega-star asked to sing on that song, and was going to until ultimately Gene decided that Paul should sing it by himself?
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Glad to see Paul's solo album as the highest ranked. To me, that's the most KISS-sounding solo album. Ace's is definitely a solid 2nd among the four. And, I agree with you about "New York Groove". Living in the NJ/NYC area, there's not a sporting event I can go to where I don't hear it blaring over the PA. And, while it's cool to hear a KISS song played in a public setting that's not RaRAN, it's a little overdone. Very cool that he took the term "solo" quite literal and played virtually every instrument on the album, too.
So, Sonic Boom is ranked higher than Monster... Interesting! To me, this was definitely a back to basics if not KISS-by-numbers album. But, I mean that in a good way. Gene is fully back onboard with some of his strongest songs in YEARS. This album totally works for me until "Outta This World". Between this contrived "Space Ace" song, followed by the absolutely awfully shameless lyrics of "Take Me Down Below" and Eric's apparently mandatory anthem "All For The Love Of Rock And Roll", this album all but falls apart for me. But, if this is the last album KISS puts out, I'd say they ended pretty darn well.
Interesting "Freak" trivia question. I was unaware of that. Makes sense and I would've loved to have heard it.
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I've never bothered with any of the solo albums, so I have no comment there.
I mostly agree with you on Monster, and even though I wasn't as positive on this as I was/am with Sonic Boom, I still think it's a very solid album overall, and one of their more consistent. My main criticism is that while Sonic Boom sounds like an album clearly inspired by the classic KISS material, Monster sounds like Sonic Boom feeding back into itself. Maybe if the two albums were released the other way around, I'd feel oppositely. :lol But Sonic Boom and Monster are both exactly what I want from KISS at this point, so I want more too! :biggrin:
I also love Shout Mercy, and Last Chance is a great rocker. One of those or the opening track would be my favourite. The Singer tune is cool too. I agree with you on Freak. It's one of those times Paul tries too hard. I felt the same with Say Yeah on Sonic Boom.
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Never really been a huge fan of Kiss, but they were really, really popular when I was about 12 or 13 years old. I just wasn't ready for them at that age. Later, when I started getting into bands like Judas Priest and Iron Maiden I thought of Kiss as a sort of joke that everybody but Kiss was in on.
What I didn't realize at the time was the fact that I was witnessing the birth of the brilliance of the Gene Simmons marketing machine. You can laugh all you want at the silly costumes and the 3-chord songs but their live shows were such a spectacle that they succeeded despite being decidedly mediocre musicians.
I'm still not much of a fan today, but I've always wanted to experience a Kiss concert so Mrs. NoseHair and I are going to be seeing them at the Comcast Center in Mansfield, MA this summer. It's an outdoor venue and they allow cameras so I'm going to bring my digital SLR and telephoto lense and see if I can get some good pictures. Should be fun :)
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As Blob said Monster is a very solid album.
Ace's solo album is very high in my list. It was a big F you to the other band members (Gene & Paul) who mocked Ace telling him he couldn't make a strong solo album. They were very wrong.
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I hope you take it for what it is. I know Paul's voice is just a shell of what it once was (though, when I saw them last in 2014, not nearly as bad as some made it out to be), but the spectacle is still there and that's kind of what it has always been about. I think every rock fan has to see "Rock and Roll All Nite" live at least once.
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I've never bothered to rank the albums as you have but I would think Ace would be higher than this, certainly miles above Monster.
Aces album was played a huge amount by me, and Rip It Out was one of the first songs I worked out on my own on the guitar. I love Ace, love every KISS song he wrote except for Cold Gin - never liked that one.
I prefer Pauls solo album over Aces, but it's still a cracker. He really showed the band what he was about. It's just a shame he preferred to party than play. He has a quirky songwriting style all his own.
Monster is an ok album but too many misses thanks to the contrived nature of it that others have mentioned. Eric's song is shit, as is Ace tommys. There's some good stuff but I haven't given it much of a chance to be honest. It would be lower tier for me.
Guess I'll have to rate hem in order before you're done Stadler.
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You know, I was going to hold off on saying this until the end, but now seems like a good enough time: do try to rank them (and I for one would love to see your list), because it was a LOT harder than I thought it would be, and while I pledged I would not change them as I go, I found myself changing them as I go. In the original list, when I made my first post, Monster was Number 10, and ahead of Sonic Boom (though I didn't just "flip" them). And I went back and made it a point to listen to everything (at least the stuff that I hadn't listened to in a month or so) and it dropped for me. Not because it sucked, but because others were better; I've listened to Sonic Boom about four times in the last three, four days.
It's the deceptiveness of a list; I REALLY love Kiss and I have since I was 11. I would sit in my parents basement with an old phonograph listening to everything up through Dynasty, OVER AND OVER while I either talked on the phone, shot billiards, or made Revell models. I would listen to them in chronological order. Reverse chronological order. All the side ones. Then all the side twos. I listened to side two of Gene and side one of Paul's solo albums more times than I can count. To this day, "Love In Chains" reminds me of Lori M********, a beautiful girl I knew in middle school who was really shy (gimme a break; I was 13 going on 14 and didn't know shit) and it probably always will.
So to be honest, the difference between 15 and 10, and 10 and 5 and 5 and 1 is probably not all that much in the grand scheme of things.
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By the way, the trivia answer.... The Lady Gaga.
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I think Ace's album is fantastic. Even kind of progressive, if you ask me. It's right up there with Paul's.
As mentioned before, I cannot comment on the last two albums.
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That still commercially available, TAC? Ace's album, I mean.
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I would think so.
Oh look!
https://www.amazon.com/Ace-Frehley-Remastered-Kiss/dp/B000001ELF/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1461955738&sr=1-3&keywords=Ace+Frehley
$4.99 new and A-Prime!
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I remember back in 6th grade, around the time of Animalize, I used to draw their various stage set-ups on the backs of my tests. I even used to think "Wouldn't it be awesome if they could do one final show when the band is over where every member, past and present, played to celebrate the entire history of the band". Of course, this was back when everyone was still alive and Bruce had just entered the picture.
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It would be easier to bring Eric and mark back than to dig up Vinnie Vincent from whatever hole he's hiding in.
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Vinnie. Sheesh, what a headcase.
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Back then I totally was into the whole KISS thing. I liked Ace´s album a lot, but not as much as I loved Paul´s. That was near perfect for me. Ace had some real cool tunes and grooves on the album though. I remember liking Ozone a lot, Fractured mirror, back in the new york groove and a couple others. Not so hot on Whipe out, though. Plus those covers were fantastic.
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Back then I totally was into the whole KISS thing. I liked Ace´s album a lot, but not as much as I loved Paul´s. That was near perfect for me. Ace had some real cool tunes and grooves on the album though. I remember liking Ozone a lot, Fractured mirror, back in the new york groove and a couple others. Not so hot on Whipe out, though. Plus those covers were fantastic.
That's pretty much how it was for me. I was big into KISS for a long time. Collected everything. Put the makeup on when did their return tour with the makeup.
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Ace Frehley is one my TOP 3 for sure, but I´m a big fan of Ace, above all the other members.
Monster is a fine album. Sonic Boom is a lot better, but still... it´s nice they are still doing strong albums.
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13.Dressed To Kill (1975): This is an album whose placement suffers simply from being a prince among kings. I love this record, and it includes what is one of my favorite Kiss songs to this day, “She”, but in the grand scheme of things, it falls just a shade short. In hindsight, we know that financially Kiss was hanging on by a thread at this point and there is the ever-so-faint whiff of desperation to this record. It is incredibly short (about 30 minutes) and famously, the “time” between songs is longer than standard to give the impression that the record itself is longer than it is. Two of the songs (the aforementioned “She” and “Love Her All I Can”) are leftovers from Gene and Paul’s pre-Kiss band, Wicked Lester, the less-than-3:00 song "Rock Bottom" has an almost two-minute acoustic guitar introduction tacked to it, and the album is “produced” by Neil Bogart, their record label head, because they literally couldn’t afford to pay anyone to do it. The cover is one of my favorites (I’ve actually gone to that street corner in New York City, the southwest corner of 23rd St. and 8th Ave) but if you notice, on the right side it says “KISS KISS KIS” because they couldn’t fit the last “S” in the design. But it does contain the first lead guitar from Paul Stanley, “C’Mon And Love Me”, the excellent Gene songs “Two Timer” and “Ladies In Waiting”, and the original studio version of what would ultimately become their biggest song and current day set-closer, “Rock and Roll All Nite”.
12.Sonic Boom (2009): I’m not going to apologize for really liking this album, and I listen to it a lot. Paul’s voice is showing wear for the first time - it’s a lot huskier than it ever was in the past – and on songs like “Danger Us” he’s noticeably struggling. I get the animosity for the new guys, especially Tommy Thayer – and there are a couple moments on here where he directly quotes Ace (“All For The Glory” is a VERY obvious one) - but this is a solid set of good old fashioned hard rock from a solid band. None of it is especially groundbreaking – hell, in just the one song “Hot And Cold”, Gene borrows from The Who for the verse riff, the solo borrows from the solo from “C’mon And Love Me” over a riff borrowed from Cheap Trick (“Heaven Tonight”) and the chorus borrows from “Love ‘Em And Leave ‘Em” – but the band does it so well its hard to find fault. This is only the second album in the band’s catalogue to not have even one co-writer from outside the band, and it shows in a consistency that makes this a great record to put on and listen through start to finish. I even like the songs sung by Eric and Tommy (though his song here has an “electricity” theme which is somewhat suspect to me). There’s a fair number of songs where Gene and Paul share vocals, something I love, and even one where they sing co-lead (the better-than-it-should-be “Stand”). Provided Paul’s voice can hold out, if they put out a couple more like this and Monster, I’d be more than okay with that.
Trivia: Famously, the guitar solo in “She” was ‘borrowed’ by Ace; what band, guitar player and song was the source? Okay, that was easy; for bonus points, who then ‘borrowed’ Ace’s solo (band, player, song)?
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I rank Dressed To Kill the weakest of their first six albums, with none of my favourites. Out of the "Alive" tracks, I don't like Rock Bottom, Come on and Love Me is ok, She is solid, and I've just heard Rock n Roll All Night too many times, and it's not an interesting enough song to survive that many plays.
I agree with your thoughts on Sonic Boom almost entirely. :tup A strong album, with nothing groundbreaking, but just done well, and it rocks like a unified band of four guys jamming it out in the studio, which is something that was becoming lost after Alive, when they started doing their own thing, and using session musicians. It's great hearing all of their voices together with some back and forth.
Paul's voice is definitely starting to sound rough here, but is still mostly good. It's a little worse on Monster, although on the recent song on the Ace solo album, I think he was sounding a bit smoother again, so maybe he has more in him for another album. I'd be happy with more albums like this.
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Trivia: Famously, the guitar solo in “She” was ‘borrowed’ by Ace; what band, guitar player and song was the source? Okay, that was easy; for bonus points, who then ‘borrowed’ Ace’s solo (band, player, song)?
Doors - Five to One
Pearl Jam - Alive (I wouldn't know which guitarist without looking)
Also, on Ace's later live solos, he borrows a bit from the Doors' Spanish Caravan.
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Room Service never seems to get any love but I always loved the attitude/cheekiness of the vocal by Paul.
I really like DTK , although it has a couple of fillers. Like Tim , I am ashamed to say that as a long time fan of the band I have never bothered to properly listen to Sonic Boom or Monster :blush
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Trivia: Famously, the guitar solo in “She” was ‘borrowed’ by Ace; what band, guitar player and song was the source? Okay, that was easy; for bonus points, who then ‘borrowed’ Ace’s solo (band, player, song)?
Doors - Five to One
Pearl Jam - Alive (I wouldn't know which guitarist without looking)
Also, on Ace's later live solos, he borrows a bit from the Doors' Spanish Caravan.
Well done! I can't prove it, I wasn't there, but I'm pretty sure it's McReady. He's the 70's rock guy, and has been out front for his love for Ace (and is a huge UFO guy).
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Wiki says McReady.
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I rank Dressed To Kill the weakest of their first six albums, with none of my favourites. Out of the "Alive" tracks, I don't like Rock Bottom, Come on and Love Me is ok, She is solid, and I've just heard Rock n Roll All Night too many times, and it's not an interesting enough song to survive that many plays.
I agree with your thoughts on Sonic Boom almost entirely. :tup A strong album, with nothing groundbreaking, but just done well, and it rocks like a unified band of four guys jamming it out in the studio, which is something that was becoming lost after Alive, when they started doing their own thing, and using session musicians. It's great hearing all of their voices together with some back and forth.
Paul's voice is definitely starting to sound rough here, but is still mostly good. It's a little worse on Monster, although on the recent song on the Ace solo album, I think he was sounding a bit smoother again, so maybe he has more in him for another album. I'd be happy with more albums like this.
I agree with what you said in regards to Dressed to Kill. The only album from the 70s that I like less is Dynasty.
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Dressed To Kill is OK for what it is, I guess. It's easily the weakest of the first 3, lacks the classics of the debut and the songwriting of the HTH. Feels very rushed, much like RnRO. I still rate it as a classic and the album cover is awesome.
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The Dressed to Kill album cover is fantastic
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It's slightly rushed but still pretty good. I keep going back and forth between that one and Hotter than hell. But today, I'd say Hotter than hell is a better one. :metal
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No contest between DTK and HTH.
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I like. dtK, probably more than RnRO. It's the poorest of the first three though.
Sonic Boom is good but wouldn't rank above any of the first two decades. Some good stuff and it sounds like where KISS should have been following Love Gun. Almost like thirty years never happened :biggrin:
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DTK….my favorite of the six originals. I bought it about a year after 'Alive' came out, and was very interested in the studio versions.
(First, yes it was irritating to have to 'pause' my tape deck between songs to cut out all of the silence, and the album was incredibly short.)
I like all of side one, 'Room Service' especially (surprised that it was not performed on stage). I cut some of the intro for 'Rock Bottom', because it is too long and repetitive, but whoda thunk they could create something that tender and pleasant sounding?
'C'mon And Love Me' suffers, not because it is a bad track, but due to the live version that I was accustomed to being played at a faster tempo. 'Anything For My Baby'...hard to drive and not do some air drums. That, along with 'Love Her All I Can' are some really good Beach Boy/Beatle-ish tracks. It was odd to hear 'She' without the 'Alive' guitar solo (I have the studio fadeout following 'She' on my 'best of'). RnR All Nite is what it is, the perfect pop 'anthem' that is well constructed.
A four to six minute 'anything' added on would have really pushed this LP to the top.
Melodically, it is far superior to their previous efforts.
Sonic Boom: can't judge it. A friend gave me a ripped copy, but often it comes down to timing and age when one gives something a listen.
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I've always liked DTK more than the first 2 album. Not by a lot but I dig it. Sonic Boom is an excellent return to form. I like crankin' that mofo.
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11. Unmasked (1980): This is an album very much of its context. I was 13, and full-on in my fandom, but the cracks were beginning to show. I still believed that Gene played bass on EVERY song, and Paul played rhythm on EVERY song, and Ace played lead on EVERY song, and Peter played drums on EVERY song… and this was the first album where it didn’t feel like it. I kinda knew something was off, and as I started to get into “Kerrang!” magazine (the US press was all-in on supporting Kiss, not printing photos of them without makeup and not “blowing their cover” with rumors) I started to get my proof. It is the first album by the band (not counting the solo releases) to not have all four members on it. Peter Criss does not appear anywhere – not even the token “vocal” - except the cover (like Dynasty, Anton Fig of David Letterman’s “CBS Orchestra” plays drums). Having said that though, I LOVED this album then, and still love it now, with the exception of the horrid “Shandi” (which is possibly my least favorite Kiss tune ever, and if not, then top three). I really liked Gene’s songs on this album; “Naked City” and “She’s So European” take a lot of shit but I love those songs. Not like, LOVE. There are three Ace tunes and they are all good. I can definitely overlook the insipid lyrics on “Torpedo Girl” because that transition into the chorus about midway through the song is GOLD. Finally, believe it or not, I kind of dug the production from Vini Poncia. I love the guitar sound they got on that album; very mid-rangy, almost twangy, and while it wasn’t “dangerous” in the way that early Kiss was, it was catchy, and I still listen to this album regularly.
10. Dynasty (1979): A perfect example of how an album gets defined by it’s single. The band’s first collaboration with Desmond Child, “I Was Made For Loving You” was a clear and admitted attempt to cash in on the recent disco craze, and forever seemed to characterize this record, in my view unfairly (lightweight on record, the song is harder and actually very good live). “Disco Kiss”. But this album does rock. Ace gets not one but THREE songs, one a cover of the Stones’ “2,000 Man”, and the album closer, “Save Your Love” is one of his best ever. I love Gene’s “X-Ray Eyes” and “Charisma”, and Paul’s “Magic Touch” is a strong as well. Peter Criss has at this point bailed; Anton Fig plays all the drums on the album except for one song, and I think that one appearance from Peter Criss, Dirty Livin’”, is in keeping with the worst of the catalogue (right up there with “Hooligan, won’t go to school again”). Having said that, I literally wore out my vinyl copy because I played side two so often. Of interest (to me, anyway) is that this is yet another album cover that mirrors a Beatles album (this one “Let It Be” or the US version of “A Hard Day’s Night”), interestingly, it is a montage of four photos and was not a group shot.
Trivia: what is unique about “Naked City”?
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Unmasked should be about 20 spots lower. Dynasty is hugely underrated, and is one of their most consistently good albums. :tup The Alive III version of I Was Made For Lovin' You is the definitive version, and kicks ass. No disco, just rock. :metal
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Both would near the bottom of the list for me, unquestionably.
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Yeah, how bitter is it that the albums that made them big are also the ones that they threw it all away with? Anyhow, with Dynasty, they still had me. Heck I even stole the album because I was so skinned at the time. There´s some good ones on there, I always liked Sure know something, Hard times, Charisma, even the single. But with Unmasked they totally lost the plot. But hey, true fans will buy ANY THING, right? Is that you, falling down the stairs?. Yeah, KISS, it is you. I never even did buy The Elder because it got such a bad rap, but looking back on that, it is a really special, unique album. But that´s for later....
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Both would be high up for me. Top tier. I love the songwriting and yes, it isn't the KISS of before, but it's not a million miles away. They were two of the first albums I had by them which probably helps.
About the only song on both I don't like is 2000 Man, and I can live with it.
There's no deep cuts to get into, they are shooting for the mainstream, but they are good songs.
Ace was on fire at this time, on the back of his solo album, and Anton Fig is a great drummer.
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Personally I really like Unmasked a lot, although it's somewhat a weird record for the band, like The Elder (which I LOVE).
IMO Anton's drum work here and on Ace's is amongst my favourites in the band catalog, in the top 4, and the first two being on "creatures of the night" and "revenge".
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I'm going back through these two to give them another chance, just because. One interesting thing I will note. The chorus of Charisma (notably on the word "charisma") reminds me a lot of the big harmonies on the chorus of "Just a Boy" from MFTE. So far for Dynasty, the only songs I would go out of my way to listen to would be 2,000 Man, Sure Know Something, and Hard Times. MAYBE Save Your Love, but I don't really care for the background vocals on that one.
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I'm sticking with "Solid meh, ranks low". I may attempt to listen to Unmasked today, still.
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Both would near the bottom of the list for me, unquestionably.
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These two are at the bottom of my list regarding the first eight albums, which isn't odd. I have to single out a few underrated songs from these albums - X-Ray eyes and Naked city, insanely catchy tunes. :metal
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Okay, I made it through. I'd forgotten that Tomorrow IS actually a pretty good tune. Two Sides of the Coin is decent as well. The rest I wouldn't miss if I didn't hear them again.
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These two are at the bottom of my list regarding the first eight albums, which isn't odd. I have to single out a few underrated songs from these albums - X-Ray eyes and Naked city, insanely catchy tunes. :metal
For those who like these records, I guess they feel this way, although for a lot more of its songs:pop rock catchy tunes. :tup :metal
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Okay, I made it through. I'd forgotten that Tomorrow IS actually a pretty good tune. Two Sides of the Coin is decent as well. The rest I wouldn't miss if I didn't hear them again.
Some on Coz, get your feet wet.
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Ace should've been slapped for that song. Awful.
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:lol
I find Unmasked on the lower end but I can still listen to it. Maybe it my age at the time that I liked it.
Dynasty is middle of the road for me. Some really cool tunes but overall not one I spin a lot these days.
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Trivia: what is unique about “Naked City”?
(https://www.stevenazarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/HorshackSM.jpg)
It's actually a decent song from Unmasked?
:neverusethis:
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That can't be it.
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OK, I really like two songs from Unmasked. Naked City and Tomorrow, which to me is one of KISS' all time best tracks.
And Easy As It Seems is pretty easy on the ears.
I cannot believe Revenge is ranked so low and Unmasked is ranked this high.
As for Dynasty, I actually have it rated higher. All 3 Ace tracks are amazing.
MAYBE Save Your Love, but I don't really care for the background vocals on that one.
I remember having this conversation with you a few years ago.
Still, Hard Times and Save Your Love are probably my two favorite all time Ace tunes. It's rare that I "love" a Gene song, but Charisma is so cheesy it's awesome. And of course, Paul is fantastic with Sure Know Something and Magic Touch.
I think Dynasty is a great album.
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Trivia: what is unique about “Naked City”?
(https://www.stevenazarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/HorshackSM.jpg)
It's actually a decent song from Unmasked?
:neverusethis:
I was going to say the same thing :lol Definitely my most played track from that album - by miles.
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Jorn does a good cover of Naked City.
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Jorn does a good cover of Naked City.
Never heard it. That could be interesting.
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Jorn does a good cover of Naked City.
Never heard it. That could be interesting.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iPgGcRQ0I7s
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I'd still take the original
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I'd still take the original
Yeah, I was a little disappointed.
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That's because it's Naked City.
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That can't be it.
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That's because it's Naked City.
It's the kind of naked that Coz can't back. Take Me is the groin shot Coz needs from KISS.
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That can't be it.
:lol
Stadler, any chance of putting an up-to-the-moment list in the OP so we can see the rankings at a glance. Post by post analysis is awesome, but it's also cool to see the list to help keep track of what albums have been covered and how they rank against other albums.
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Stadler, any chance of putting an up-to-the-moment list in the OP so we can see the rankings at a glance. Post by post analysis is awesome, but it's also cool to see the list to help keep track of what albums have been covered and how they rank against other albums.
I agree.
Great minds and such..
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What has always puzzled me about Dynasty was as F'd up as Ace was during this time period, his tunes are so strong. Same for his solo album. Contrast with his tracks for Unmasked, which aren't even in the ballpark.
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It's interesting how it goes. You've got his solo album, which is killer. Then some decent songs on Dynasty. Then it goes downhill on Unmasked, probably even more so for his two offerings on MFTE. Then out of nowhere, the first Frehley's Comet album comes out and it's kick ass. Then Second Sighting (aka the Todd Howarth solo album) was pretty lackluster. Trouble Walkin' was hit-or-miss. 20 years later, Anomaly comes out and it's fantastic. I missed Space Invader, so I need to check that out. So it seems that he starts out great, then tanks quickly on subsequent efforts, each time he resurfaces.
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It's interesting how it goes. You've got his solo album, which is killer. Then some decent songs on Dynasty. Then it goes downhill on Unmasked, probably even more so for his two offerings on MFTE. Then out of nowhere, the first Frehley's Comet album comes out and it's kick ass. Then Second Sighting (aka the Todd Howarth solo album) was pretty lackluster. Trouble Walkin' was hit-or-miss. 20 years later, Anomaly comes out and it's fantastic. I missed Space Invader, so I need to check that out. So it seems that he starts out great, then tanks quickly on subsequent efforts, each time he resurfaces.
Sounds like he is inconsistent lol
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It's interesting how it goes. You've got his solo album, which is killer. Then some decent songs on Dynasty. Then it goes downhill on Unmasked, probably even more so for his two offerings on MFTE. Then out of nowhere, the first Frehley's Comet album comes out and it's kick ass. Then Second Sighting (aka the Todd Howarth solo album) was pretty lackluster. Trouble Walkin' was hit-or-miss. 20 years later, Anomaly comes out and it's fantastic. I missed Space Invader, so I need to check that out. So it seems that he starts out great, then tanks quickly on subsequent efforts, each time he resurfaces.
Sounds like he is inconsistent lol
One of the things I've always loved about Ace are his solos. Sure he wrote some pretty killer riffs and rhythms, but those solos were pretty unique and I always loved learning to play them. He hasn't been too consistent over the years as far as quality, but when he hit the mark, he nailed it.
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It's interesting how it goes. You've got his solo album, which is killer. Then some decent songs on Dynasty. Then it goes downhill on Unmasked, probably even more so for his two offerings on MFTE. Then out of nowhere, the first Frehley's Comet album comes out and it's kick ass. Then Second Sighting (aka the Todd Howarth solo album) was pretty lackluster. Trouble Walkin' was hit-or-miss. 20 years later, Anomaly comes out and it's fantastic. I missed Space Invader, so I need to check that out. So it seems that he starts out great, then tanks quickly on subsequent efforts, each time he resurfaces.
For Second Sighting, it's been well-documented that Ace was pretty far gone during this period. Not to mention, the record label wanted a new album out before they went out to support Iron Maiden. So, it was a total rush job where, aside from singing, Ace is barely on the album. I like the Todd songs. The Ace songs are pretty meh for me.
I've yet to check out Anomaly, Space Invader or the covers album. Worth checking out?
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One of the things I always loved about Ace's solos is how he takes the same probably 6-10 licks, and recycles them over and over and over a thousand times in his solos, but they somehow never sounds samey or tired.
For Second Sighting, it's been well-documented that Ace was pretty far gone during this period. Not to mention, the record label wanted a new album out before they went out to support Iron Maiden. So, it was a total rush job where, aside from singing, Ace is barely on the album. I like the Todd songs. The Ace songs are pretty meh for me.
I've yet to check out Anomaly, Space Invader or the covers album. Worth checking out?
Yeah, I can't remember the last time I listened to SS, aside from It's Over Now.
Anomaly was pretty good, and everything I've heard from Origins Vol 1 has been pretty solid.
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Stadler, any chance of putting an up-to-the-moment list in the OP so we can see the rankings at a glance. Post by post analysis is awesome, but it's also cool to see the list to help keep track of what albums have been covered and how they rank against other albums.
Done!! Great idea, and I wish I thought of it first.
As for Ace, I agree with the "6 - 10 licks". There are no really "lyrical" solos, ala "November Rain", but he's got some classic stuff in there. I used to have FC and SS on vinyl, but never got around to getting them on CD; not really interested in someone else singing if it's not Gene or Paul, if that makes sense. Anomaly and Space Invader are really strong, though. Good stuff, and while I don't listen to them every day, they are good. I have Origins, I just haven't listened to it yet. Waiting for a long enough drive. :)
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Also, I just listened to the Russ Ballard version of In the Night for the first time. Usually, I feel like Ace has had a pretty good track record of making covers sound better than the original (Do Ya, Fox On the Run, etc), but this one is a tough call.
Also, it's cool listening to something like Calling to You, from the FC album. Todd and Ace both play half of the solo, but it's clearly obvious from listening, which one plays which half of the solo. That's how identifiable his style is.
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Anomaly is OK. Never checked out his last album. The track or two that I sampled were terrible.
Off of Second Sighting, I love Loser In A Fight and The Acorn Is Spinning.
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"Naked City" Trivia: Despite playing on three of the five studio songs on Alive II, all four new songs on "Killers", and several solos on "Creatures" that didn't make the final album, all uncredited, this is the only OFFICIAL Bob Kulick credit in the Kiss catalogue (and he didn't play on the song!).
9. Alive II Side Four (1977): A departure from Alive! – which purported to present a full Kiss show across four album sides – Alive II was a collection of live songs from the three post-Alive! albums, albeit also presented in a loose “concert” order, and not always “live”. The fourth side consisted of five studio songs, recorded in September of 1977, about six months after Love Gun. Two songs from Paul (one a cover), two songs from Gene, and one from Ace. Ace’s “Rocket Ride” gets all the publicity – at this point, only the second lead vocal from Ace, after “Shock Me” – and it’s a very good song, but for me, the other three originals are the highlight. I love “All American Man”, and thought it was Kiss at its arrogant, swaggering best. “Rockin’ In The U.S.A.” is sort of jokey, but it’s a good song in the vein of “Let Me Go Rock and Roll”, and “Larger Than Life” is what “Got Love For Sale” or “Almost Human” SHOULD have been, vintage Gene. The sound on these tracks - they were recorded in a theater in New Jersey (as were two songs that were presented as 'live' on the live portion of the record) - is excellent, and marks the first appearance of Bob Kulick on a Kiss record, albeit uncredited. I liked “Any Way You Want It” because it was different and kind of a better sequel to “Then She Kissed Me”. For those familiar, it’s very close to the Dave Clark Five original, and is all Paul.
Trivia: What were the two songs from these sessions that were later passed off as "live" on the live portion of the record?
8. Music From The Elder (1981): This is another album that is of it’s context. At the time, I was a massive Kiss fan, but I had just had my heart broken by them. Peter Criss did not play on the last two records! Ace was MIA! But, as fate has it, I was just getting into prog, having been introduced to this odd band called “Genesis”. So when my favorite – but slightly estranged - band decided to make a concept album? This was like the best of all worlds! I’m in! I was still unsure about this new guy, “The Fox”, but when I heard the opening notes of “The Oath” (the US LP has a different track list/order than the international and subsequent CD versions), I was convinced. I could live with Paul's falsetto as long as the music kicked as like it did (and it did). Of course, the less said about “fanfare” (in lower italics on the sleeve; artsy!) the better, but then came “Just A Boy”, which could have been lifted directly from Paul’s solo album (a good thing). Likewise, several of the Gene songs could have been outtakes from his solo album. There are still issues; there’s a ton of guitar on there that isn’t Ace (though allegedly he plays on all but two songs), and I could do without “Mr. Blackwell”, another of my top five least favorite Kiss songs – though in all fairness, when I listened back, the vocal and lyrics are lame, but the background music in the second half of the song is better than I remember. The album clearly tries too hard, and it’s clearly Kiss out of their element (Lou Reed?) but it’s a testament to how good the band really is that they could extend so far and yet still have a number of classic, powerful tunes. I think the “Only You”/”Under The Rose” sequence – even with the copped riff in “…Rose” - is as good a pairing as “Detroit…”/”King…”. I’m serious.
Trivia: What are the three instrumentals in the Kiss studio catalogue?
7. Paul Stanley (1978): Clearly, my favorite of the solo albums, and one of my favorites in the entire catalogue. Other than “Hold Me, Touch Me” which I can’t stand, this album is strong top to bottom. There are no “token” songs, there are no cover songs (the only one of the solo albums to say that) and very few co-writers (Mikel Japp co-wrote three of the nine songs). Unlike some of Paul’s later work, it sounds timeless and it is one of the albums I still listen to regularly to this day. Favorites for me are “Take Me Away”, “Love In Chains”, “Goodbye”, and “Tonight You Belong To Me”. There’s really not a lot to say about this album; it’s not star-studded – though Carmine Appice drums on one song - there isn’t a lot of controversy about it, and he doesn’t stretch too far out of his sweet spot, but for a band like Kiss, this is really the charm of the record.
Trivia: Three women sing back up on the second song, “Move On”. You don't have to name them, but what role do they play in bigger picture of “Kisstory”? Bonus question: What is unique about “Dark Light”, from “…The Elder”?
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Well the "live" studio tracks were Hard Luck Woman and Tomorrow And Tonight.
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Three instrumentals are:
Love Theme From Kiss
Fanfare
Escape from the Island
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What about Carr Jam? Yes, it's just drums, but still an instrumental. Or are we just going to call it a solo track?
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Three instrumentals are:
Love Theme From Kiss
Fanfare
Escape from the Island
You caught me. I was thinking of instrumentals the band played on, meaning "Love...", "Escape..." and "Carr Jam 1981". But you are, of course, correct with "fanfare".
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Lol, I obviously forgot about Carr Jam, aka Breakout.
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Wow Stadler, this is one controversial list. The Alive II Studio side is Top 10?? I'll give you All American Man (Bob Kulick :metal), Rocket Ride, and Larger Than Life. Rockin' In The USA is filler and Any Way You Want It blows chunks.
I just can's see how these um..5 tunes beat out whole albums with much better stuff on it.
And I guess you have a soft spot for The Elder. That's fine. We all have them and it's your list. On my list it would be Asylum. But Unmasked and The Elder so high, while relegating things like Revenge and Animalize so low is really mind blowing.
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Imo all of the Alive II bonus tracks are throwaway.
Aside from that, I'm with TAC.
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Also, I'm sure it was not intentional, but Jaded Heart by Dokken has a short riff that sounds like Under the Rose:
Under the Rose at 1:08:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOTUPhS7cPA#t=1m08s
Jaded Heart at 2:47:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZvlZrq3tKE#t=2m47s
In other news, the Kiss tribute I was in, Cold Gin, routinely did Rocket Ride and All American Man.
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Wow Stadler, this is one controversial list. The Alive II Studio side is Top 10?? I'll give you All American Man (Bob Kulick :metal), Rocket Ride, and Larger Than Life. Rockin' In The USA is filler and Any Way You Want It blows chunks.
I just can's see how these um..5 tunes beat out whole albums with much better stuff on it.
And I guess you have a soft spot for The Elder. That's fine. We all have them and it's your list. On my list it would be Asylum. But Unmasked and The Elder so high, while relegating things like Revenge and Animalize so low is really mind blowing.
I understand your position but I stand by it. Most of this relative. I'd much rather listen to "Animalize" and "Revenge" than, say, 95% of other band's best albums. I love Kiss, always have and I don't see it changing anytime soon. The other thing is that some of this is... intangible. I can remember getting the album "...The Elder" with the gatefold, and it was awesome. I can remember listening to Alive II on this old orange portable record player that sounded like absolute SHIT. I had to beg my dad to let me make cassettes from his high end (I mean HIGH END) Fisher tube amp system. I have a soft spot for Lick It Up, because it was the first tour I saw, and on that tour I met the band for the first time.
There are patterns, though. I much prefer what I call the "New York" sound of Kiss, the heavy, riff-based, Stones-y stuff over the "L.A." sound of Kiss, the more trebly, power chord-driven stuff. I much prefer Gene's singing; I much prefer Paul's more throat-y, gritty vocals ("Do You Love Me?", "Love Gun") to the more screechy "metal" vocals ("I'll Fight Hell To Hold You"). I have come to have a pretty big hard-on against Peter Criss. I feel he has disrespected the Kiss name far more than Gene and Paul ever have.
Finally, I think a lot of people either don't realize or have forgot the mystique around the band back then. There is literally not one current band/circumstance that is even remotely like that. There was no Twitter, Facebook, internet. WE DID NOT KNOW WHAT THOSE FOUR GUYS LOOKED LIKE. I literally could have been standing next to Paul Stanley in the market and wouldn't have known until September of 1983. They were dangerous, in a way that Alice Cooper and Motley Crue never were. There was a period where Gene didn't speak; other than the infamous Mike Douglas appearance, Paul did most of the talking in appearances, and ALL the talking on stage. There was no one like them in '77, but when they toured in '84, they were great - they are a very good band live - but they weren't that different than Van Halen or Scorpions in terms of image and stage presentation, etc.
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Also, I'm sure it was not intentional, but Jaded Heart by Dokken has a short riff that sounds like Under the Rose:
Under the Rose at 1:08:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOTUPhS7cPA#t=1m08s
Jaded Heart at 2:47:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZvlZrq3tKE#t=2m47s
In other news, the Kiss tribute I was in, Cold Gin, routinely did Rocket Ride and All American Man.
That's not it, but that is driving me crazy trying to think what that riff is.
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You mean another that sounds like these two?
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You mean another that sounds like these two?
Yes.
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I have a problem ranking the KISS albums. I was born in 1973 and was given a Love Gun 8 Track in 1977 and have been hooked ever since. The problem for me is ranking anything other than Love Gun at 1. Objectively, I know it's not their best album but I have such an emotional attachment to it that I can't place it anywhere other than 1. To this day, I buy anything I see featuring the iconic Love Gun cover.
The women who sing backup on Move On are Maria Vidal, Diana Grasselli, and Miriam Naomi Valle (I have the album right in front of me) but I have no idea of their role in KISStory.
Now Dark Light I know was demoed by Ace as Don't Run (based on Anton Fig's guitar riff) but Lou Reed was brought in to mold the lyrics to fit the Elder storyline.
My original six would look like
Love Gun
Rock And Roll Over
KISS
Dressed To Kill
Destroyer
Hotter Than Hell
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The women who sing backup on Move On are Maria Vidal, Diana Grasselli, and Miriam Naomi Valle (I have the album right in front of me) but I have no idea of their role in KISStory.
Maria Vidal was also the female background vocalist on the Smithereens' hit A Girl Like You. Still don't know their attachment to Kiss other than their mutual attachment to Desmond Child.
Now Dark Light I know was demoed by Ace as Don't Run (based on Anton Fig's guitar riff) but Lou Reed was brought in to mold the lyrics to fit the Elder storyline.
Anton Fig riff, but Eric Carr on drums?
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Stadler, how on earth did you meet Kiss on the Lick It Up tour? How old were you?
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I don't have any problem with any of these being this high. They are top tier for me.
Pauls solo album could be my favourite KISS album tbh. I love every note of it.
The Elder arrived just as I was getting into KISS (and music in general) and I didn't have any real history with the band to get all upset about. It's not a KISS album as such, that's the problem with it. Also the label jumbling up the tracks gave the story no chance of making sense.
I like side four of Alive II. Even the cover. I mean, it's not essential or anything but I don't turn it off. Alive II is my favourite of the live albums because of the brighter sound, and that foldout cover. It came in at no 18 on my top 50. Pauls solo album was no 8.
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Stadler, how on earth did you meet Kiss on the Lick It Up tour? How old were you?
He was in the mall and was walking by the L'Oreal kiosk and happened to run into them.
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Wow Stadler, this is one controversial list. The Alive II Studio side is Top 10?? I'll give you All American Man (Bob Kulick :metal), Rocket Ride, and Larger Than Life. Rockin' In The USA is filler and Any Way You Want It blows chunks.
I just can's see how these um..5 tunes beat out whole albums with much better stuff on it.
And I guess you have a soft spot for The Elder. That's fine. We all have them and it's your list. On my list it would be Asylum. But Unmasked and The Elder so high, while relegating things like Revenge and Animalize so low is really mind blowing.
I understand your position but I stand by it. Most of this relative. I'd much rather listen to "Animalize" and "Revenge" than, say, 95% of other band's best albums. I love Kiss, always have and I don't see it changing anytime soon. The other thing is that some of this is... intangible. I can remember getting the album "...The Elder" with the gatefold, and it was awesome. I can remember listening to Alive II on this old orange portable record player that sounded like absolute SHIT. I had to beg my dad to let me make cassettes from his high end (I mean HIGH END) Fisher tube amp system. I have a soft spot for Lick It Up, because it was the first tour I saw, and on that tour I met the band for the first time.
There are patterns, though. I much prefer what I call the "New York" sound of Kiss, the heavy, riff-based, Stones-y stuff over the "L.A." sound of Kiss, the more trebly, power chord-driven stuff. I much prefer Gene's singing; I much prefer Paul's more throat-y, gritty vocals ("Do You Love Me?", "Love Gun") to the more screechy "metal" vocals ("I'll Fight Hell To Hold You"). I have come to have a pretty big hard-on against Peter Criss. I feel he has disrespected the Kiss name far more than Gene and Paul ever have.
Finally, I think a lot of people either don't realize or have forgot the mystique around the band back then. There is literally not one current band/circumstance that is even remotely like that. There was no Twitter, Facebook, internet. WE DID NOT KNOW WHAT THOSE FOUR GUYS LOOKED LIKE. I literally could have been standing next to Paul Stanley in the market and wouldn't have known until September of 1983. They were dangerous, in a way that Alice Cooper and Motley Crue never were. There was a period where Gene didn't speak; other than the infamous Mike Douglas appearance, Paul did most of the talking in appearances, and ALL the talking on stage. There was no one like them in '77, but when they toured in '84, they were great - they are a very good band live - but they weren't that different than Van Halen or Scorpions in terms of image and stage presentation, etc.
It's all good. I'm a lifelong KISS fan too and it's a treat to discuss them here. I'm also DTF's biggest Alice Cooper fan BTW.
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Maria Vidal was also the female background vocalist on the Smithereens' hit A Girl Like You. Still don't know their attachment to Kiss other than their mutual attachment to Desmond Child.
I'll give you that. They are the "Rouge" in "Desmond Child and Rouge", the band he was in during the 70's before he came out (he dated Maria Vidal) and before he became primarily a songwriter. They were the avenue for him meeting Paul Stanley, which led to "I Was Made For Loving You", and, as they say, Kisstory.
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Stadler, how on earth did you meet Kiss on the Lick It Up tour? How old were you?
He was in the mall and was walking by the L'Oreal kiosk and happened to run into them.
Dude! You're not far off. Not the LIU tour, but I was in the Charlotte Mall in 2007 and I walked by the Wentworth Gallery. Paul was in there selling his paintings. I walked in with my daughter ("Daddy! That's the guy that sings BETH!"), I bought a signed original print of "Karma" and got to hang with him for about 20 minutes. SUPER cool, and he was wonderful with my daughter.
As for the Lick It Up tour, they were doing a meet and greet at Cutler's Records in New Haven. I grabbed my copy of Killers and the booklets from Alive! and Alive II and went down. When I got there the line was like 750 people long, but I walked up to the front door, talked to Phil Cutler (the owner) and put my name on the list. But while I was there, I noticed some of the names that were up next (he would yell a number and you had to give the name). I wasn't walking all the way around the corner, so I kind of hung out a little. Shortly after, he's yelling "103!" "103!" "103!" After three or four yells I figured, you snooze you lose, and I tried to remember the names. "MATT!" I yelled (DEFINITELY not my name) and he says "Finally! You almost lost your spot. Go meet the band." and I went in.
The line moved from right to left past Gene, Paul, Vinnie, and Eric, who were all behind a table. Paul was talking to three REALLY hot chicks so I was sort of "stuck" in front of Gene. He was so cool; I got to talk with him for about four or five minutes. He asked me for my booklets and started thumbing through them, making comments. "That wasn't a real concert; that photo was staged!" (the cover to Alive!). "I remember that; the girl behind the camera kept making me laugh." Stuff like that. Finally he took my copy of Killers and said, "Go grab a copy of Lick It Up; the cover is white and better to sign, and Vinnie's on it". So I did. He and Vinnie signed LIU, and Paul and Eric signed Killers. Paul was nice, Eric was awesome, Vinnie was a douche; he was back from the tables pounding tall boys and would only come up to sign and then he'd go back without saying a word.
For the show, I was in the front row on the side, right in front of Gene. I had a perfect side view of the front row; some wasted chick started throwing clothes. She threw her bra, her panties and was trying to get her shirt off when her boyfriend stopped her. She sat down and passed out with her shirt sideways and her skirt hiked up. I didn't see anything but I'm pretty sure Gene got to see the whole enchilada. So to speak.
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It's all good. I'm a lifelong KISS fan too and it's a treat to discuss them here. I'm also DTF's biggest Alice Cooper fan BTW.
You need to return the favor with Alice. I want to get into the early stuff and don't know where to start. I heard the greatest hits from '74 is all remixes or something, so I don't know if that is a good place. But I hear so much about those early albums produced by Ezrin, with Glenn Buxton, Michael Bruce, Dick Wagner, Steve Hunter...
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The Greatest Hits doesn't even come close to scratching the surface. The original Alice Cooper band is the most underrated American (or any) rock band. Will update this post in the morning!
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I've been waiting for this one.
Music From the Elder is my FAVORITE Kiss album. And personally, I don't think it would have been *quite* the dismal failure it was if they would have released a different lead single.
I mean, being a metal/Kiss fan and being slightly intrigued by the idea of a concept album...and the "A World Without Heroes" comes on the radio. As a kid, I would have puked. "I" would have been a good lead of single. Heck, even Dark Light or Only You would have been better choices. Heck, if they wanted to make a statement about being more serious and dramatic, even Under the Rose would have been a MUCH better statement than World Without Heroes.
I'm not saying any of this would have made the album a success, but I think having that sappy ballad as a lead off single to an album trying to establish credibility (after already appearing "weak" for two albums in a row) was career suicide.
I like what Gene once said. "It's a great album, but it's not a great KISS album." I partially disagree with that second point, but I get what he means. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if you had a lead off single that kicked a little ass, and see if people would have at least given it the minimal support it needed for a proper tour.
Do bootlegs exist for any of the Elder shows they played in Europe? And another question. Ace mimed all the promotional stuff they did for Elder, but did he actually play the stuff live?
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Not sure if the single was the main issue, though I'm sure there's merit to what you say. I remember seeing them on Fridays and they played I, so I knew there was some rockin' tunes on it, but at that point, KISS kind of jumped the shark, no. I just don't think anyone took them seriously.
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Not sure if the single was the main issue, though I'm sure there's merit to what you say. I remember seeing them on Fridays and they played I, so I knew there was some rockin' tunes on it, but at that point, KISS kind of jumped the shark, no. I just don't think anyone took them seriously.
It's an album over the year I have come to appreciate a lot more. It's well written, well crafted but not the right album at the time when their popularity was waning. They needed to come out balls a' swinging.
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Has anyone ever compared the original version vs. the 1997 remastered track order? I'm curious if it feels any different, i.e. flows better with the reordered track listing. It seems like a better order, from the look of it.
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Has anyone ever compared the original version vs. the 1997 remastered track order? I'm curious if it feels any different, i.e. flows better with the reordered track listing. It seems like a better order, from the look of it.
You know. The remastered threw me off because I listened to the original so much. I should give it a shot again.
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See, and I'm just the opposite because I didn't discover the album until the the '97 remaster. So I've never actually heard the original running order. (though it's my understanding that the Remaster order was the original order they were working with in the studio...the record execs changed things around before they went to pressing)
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You need to return the favor with Alice. I want to get into the early stuff and don't know where to start. I heard the greatest hits from '74 is all remixes or something, so I don't know if that is a good place. But I hear so much about those early albums produced by Ezrin, with Glenn Buxton, Michael Bruce, Dick Wagner, Steve Hunter...
Pretty sure this post won't derail the thread, so I hope you don't mind. I don't think anyone else is going to care. :lol
As I said, the original Alice band was incredible. So let me start:
Their first two albums, Pretties For You ('69) and Easy Action ('70) were released on Zappa's label and they are for completests only. Not much going on here and it comes off like a lot of noise. I can find some good in them, but I'm a hardcore Alice fan. These are completely avoidable.
Shep Gordon (their manager) then takes the band to see Jack Richardson in Toronto, who is a popular producer at the time. Richardson asks one of his young engineers (Ezrin) to basically throw them out. But Ezrin agrees to go see them live in New York, and they do a record deal backstage after the show.
Love It To Death 1971- This is where Ezrin really pulls apart the mess that is Alice Cooper and rebuilds it into something viable. Love It To Death is still a little on the raw side but it's more than listenable. It has a certain charm to it for sure. I'm Eighteen and Is It My Body are represented on the Greatest Hits, but the albums tour de force is The Ballad Of Dwight Fry, still to this day is my favorite Alice track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfqrZvKI_1g
Killer 1971-To me this and School's Out are the "must haves" of the early stuff. Killer is simply incredible. It is an epic filled classic off set with some of his best shorter songs. You'll recognize Under My Wheels, Be My Lover, and Desperado from the Greatest Hits but this album's greatness lies in the following three tracks;
Halo Of Flies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGOD1-NtxH8
I would venture to call this early Progressive Metal!
Dead Babies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vibuSW89MH8
A song against child neglect!
Killer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdr0y3cccw&index=5&list=PLu0G59v5yOuZrPfhp36SfQgeOb3vF49H_
So totally haunting and ending with the sound of death!
School's Out1972-Believe it or not, I think only the title track is represented on the Greatest Hits, which is a travesty because musically this album is amazing. This is when they started with elaborate packaging. The fold out desk, the flammable panties!
Musically this was another ahead of its time album. Just check out:
My Stars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0DRD31c6Nk
Incredible!
Blue Turk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgzoYzZiI7w
One of my favorites
Billion Dollar Babies 1973- I consider B$B much weaker than the previous two album, but it became their most popular. They had a huge arena tour which was documented on the live DVD Good To See You Again. Divisions in the band also started about this time as Alice himself started to become "the" star. Elected, B$B, No More Mr. Nice Guy are all on the Greatest Hits.
Not going to bother linking but the best tracks are I Love The Dead and Generation Landslide
Muscle Of Love 1973-Lots of divisiveness in the band here. Ezrin doesn't produce. The band tries to wrestle away some power from Alice, so this album is more of a collection of songs rather than a loosely themed theatrical album. This album is quite uneven, but I like a lot of it. Only Teenage Lament would make the Greatest Hits.
But there are some cool songs, like The Man With The Golden Gun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R500VKA9-Zo which was beat out at the last minute for the Bond film.
At this point, the band kind of had it and they and Alice, though all sides are murky on it, basically split in two and Alice goes on to his solo career.
Welcome To My Nightmare 1975 - He reunites with Ezrin. What can I say, this album made Alice a full blown star. The whole thing is amazing top to bottom. Such a great band! Hunter/Wagner on guitar, Prakash John on Bass and Whitey Glan on drums. Live they were a beast of a band. Even Tony Levin does some session work on this and Go To Hell. Not even sure what to link, but this is a "must have"!
Alice Cooper Goes To Hell 1976- The follow up to WTMN. Drums are handled by session drummer Alan Shwartzberg, who you'll recognize as doing sessions for Kiss/the Solo Albums. Personally, I love this album. Has a similar vibe to WTMN. But this is where the Alice train really breaks down. He doesn't tour Goes To Hell.
He will follow these up with Lace And Whiskey ('77) and From The Inside ('78) which is itself an amazing album. Recorded after his stint in an institution it's quite entertaining.
He then disappears for a couple years rehabbing off and on. He would record 4 more albums from '80-'83, but they are alcohol and drug induced albums that are quite obscure. Flush The Fashion, Special Forces, Da Da (an Ezrin/Dick Wagner album basically) and Zipper Catches Skin. Alice would go off at this point and cure himself and reemerge in 1986 with Constrictor and the amazing Nightmare Returns tour. The rest is history!
Must haves:
Killer
School's Out
Welcome To My Nightmare
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Eric Carr signed my Elder CD cover! :metal
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Will agree with TAC's Alice Cooper comments. Best to take your time, and listen to them in their chronological order, and headphones if possible. As much as the naysayers put down the 'simplicity' of the music, they provided a lot of catchy hooks amidst much of the bizarre. And, Neal Smith's drumming is steady, and all over the place with some great fills that one picks up on with repeated listens. Alice watched a ton of television and movies, and you can sense the show tune influence in many instrumentals. Bob Ezrin somehow works in piano and trumpets and tubas and orchestras with little notice.
Dangerous? She ate chickens on stage!!! :D (https://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/%5Econtent.php?id=events/chicken.php). Wrote about dead babies, had the python, the guillotine, the gallows, wore make up and dresses. Got his name from a Ouiji board from a dead witch. He worshipped the devil! He was corrupting America's youth!
ABC's 'In Concert' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIr8vJY-6Ig) When this aired, 4 of the 5 affiliates in Lower Michigan didn't carry it. Fortunately, my little TV was able to receive it as a grainy black and white feed. Major markets such as St. Louis didn't show it.
(the fun video of 'Elected' starts around 18:30)
He is why a lot of us 'got it' when we read about, and then watched KISS on 'The Midnight Special' for the first time. Being called 'the sons of Alice' might have been a slam by some as being copycats, but so what? It worked.
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Has anyone ever compared the original version vs. the 1997 remastered track order? I'm curious if it feels any different, i.e. flows better with the reordered track listing. It seems like a better order, from the look of it.
Well, I have, though I haven't heard the LP listing in a while. For a short time I had the LP order on my iPod, and I've since ditched it in favor of the CD version.
Here's the thing, though: in typical Kiss fashion, all is not what it seems. The OFFICIAL story is that the "Japanese version" is the intended order, and the US version is a shuffling in order to get the "singles" as the first song on each album side (common in the day). On the Japanese version (again, the "intended" order) "Just A Boy" goes into "Odyssey" and "Dark Light" is the first song on Side 2. On the US version, the "commercial" version, "Just A Boy" goes into "Dark Light" and "Odyssey" buried in the middle of side 2. BUT... if you listen close to "Just A Boy", the initial notes of "Dark Light" can be heard in the fade, seeming to indicate that "Just A Boy" was mixed with the intention of the next song being "Dark Light". So who friggin' knows.
I think the album flows a shade better in the CD/Japanese version, and certainly if you follow the story (which I don't) it makes slightly more sense in the CD version.
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Do bootlegs exist for any of the Elder shows they played in Europe? And another question. Ace mimed all the promotional stuff they did for Elder, but did he actually play the stuff live?
It's my understanding that there were only three appearances made in support of "The Elder", one clearly lip-synched ("I", and Ace blew it off, so they were a trio) and two allegedly played live - an appearance on "Friday's" ("A World Without Heroes", "I", and "The Oath") and an appearance on Solid Gold ("AWWH" and "I"). Later dates in '82 were in support of Creatures, and had Vinnie on guitar (and in makeup). They didn't play any Elder material on that tour.
The Friday's appearance is on the Kissology set; I'll watch it tonight and tell you if Ace was really playing, but in theory anyway, he only played three songs, the first two twice, and the last only once.
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Will agree with TAC's Alice Cooper comments. Best to take your time, and listen to them in their chronological order, and headphones if possible. As much as the naysayers put down the 'simplicity' of the music, they provided a lot of catchy hooks amidst much of the bizarre. And, Neal Smith's drumming is steady, and all over the place with some great fills that one picks up on with repeated listens. Alice watched a ton of television and movies, and you can sense the show tune influence in many instrumentals. Bob Ezrin somehow works in piano and trumpets and tubas and orchestras with little notice.
I've heard this about Alice, and why I'm interested to get acquainted with the material: that it SOUNDS simple, but when you dig in there was a LOT of complexity and depth to the material. I've referenced the Slash interview on Stern here, and that's the most recent place I've heard this. Both Slash and Stern were raving about early Alice.
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Later on, they've apparently done full performances of The Oath on a couple Kiss Kruises.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6sbALlzUzQ
When the song starts, the crowd absolutely loses their shit.
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Coz, not to put you on the spot, but just curious... what material did you play in Cold Gin? Can you play (meaning, do you know it, not whether you are technically capable) anything in the catalogue or just certain eras? Depending on your answer to that last question, what's the hardest thing in the catalogue for you to play? The easiest (though that's kind of a dumb question)?
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I didn't appreciate The Elder until I expanded my musical tastes. As someone who preferred the traditional KISS albums of the 70s, The Elder was a departure from that and left me disappointed. Now, I think it's a really intriguing and ballsy venture.
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Coz, not to put you on the spot, but just curious... what material did you play in Cold Gin? Can you play (meaning, do you know it, not whether you are technically capable) anything in the catalogue or just certain eras? Depending on your answer to that last question, what's the hardest thing in the catalogue for you to play? The easiest (though that's kind of a dumb question)?
We played your standard makeup era Kiss stuff, with a few oddballs thrown in here and there (the aforementioned Rocket Ride and All American Man, as well as Rip It Out, Love Her All I Can, Strange Ways, and War Machine). Every once in a great while we did Lick It Up, but that was the only non-makeup era song we ever did (although I remember a sound check at a Kiss Convention in King of Prussia, we went through a portion of "Something Moved" for shits and giggles). I haven't really gone out of my way to learn much post-makeup stuff, but I know a few (Lick It Up, Forever, Domino). There are probably a handful that I've figured out riffs to just screwing around getting a line check before gigs. Now, give me a specific Kiss song and 10-15 minutes and I'll pretty much play it back for you. I may not nail the solo, but I'll have the spirit of it, at the very least.
One of the harder things I ever had to play is the solo to Makin' Love. That triplet figure that Ace opens the solo with is fucking dizzying. Not to mention that the rest of the solo is full-on high octane Ace at his finest. It's my number one favorite solo from Ace. In the grand scheme of things, I've played much harder solos for other songs (Bark at the Moon, for example), but ML is definitely a tougher one. Easy ones? Not gonna lie, it's most of them. :lol
Here's a video from a Kiss Convention we did in Cleveland. Eric Singer played four songs with us. Parasite was one of them. I'd been playing Kiss songs for a long time, but I'd only been in the tribute band for 3 months, so I hadn't come close to getting Ace's moves or makeup quite right yet. Also, this wasn't the best lineup of the band, that came later on that year/early '98.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTD_QBO2iTc
There's a shit ton more footage I have from my Kiss tribute years, but my ex has it all, as she's the one who shot the videos. Being the abysmal excuse for a human that she is, the likelihood that I'll ever get any of it is next to zero.
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I'm pretty sure I saw Cold Gin at The Sting in New Britain, CT around '94, '95 if that is possible. I don't know if those are the guys you played with or not, but they were good. Whoever it was, I can remember being blown away by their version of "She".
I thought that video you posted was pretty cool. Nice solo, and you looked good.
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It's really weird to knock down a few beers with Coz when he's in his Ace Costume. ACK!
I kid! I kid!
That would be fun though.
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Coz, while in Cold Gin, did you ever play any of the NJ/NY KISS Expos in Hackensack? I could've sworn they played one of the conventions I went to back in the mid/late 90's.
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I'm pretty sure I saw Cold Gin at The Sting in New Britain, CT around '94, '95 if that is possible. I don't know if those are the guys you played with or not, but they were good. Whoever it was, I can remember being blown away by their version of "She".
I thought that video you posted was pretty cool. Nice solo, and you looked good.
Thanks! I joined the band in '97. March 1, 1997 was my first show, in my own hometown, no less. :lol Only place I ever played in Connecticut was a wide spot in the road called Baltic, just above Norwich. The band had been around for a lot longer than I was, so it's very possible it was the same band.
Funny enough, I had a She moment in Baltic, CT. We'd decided at some point during the set that we weren't going to take a break, we were just going to do one LONG set. Somewhere at the beginning of that end coda section to She (the pasted on part that came from Let Me Know), I broke my D string. The riff relies heavily on it. I had to immediately rework the entire riff in my head to play all the D string notes on the A string and keep it going. We finished the song and decided we'd take a break after all, so I could change the string. My singer told me later how impressed he was that I'd reworked it all on the spot like that.
Also, here's a Google Maps thing I did, pinpointing every place I've played. I did a lot of Kiss gigs in PA, as well as gigs with several other bands. But if it's outside PA, it was a Kiss gig. Also, the Mexico pinpoint I only put there for fun, we didn't play there. :lol The Panama City, Panama pinpoint WAS an actual gig though. Each pin has accompanying text if you click it, usually about random stuff I remembered.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=en&mid=1cmJG_XoFTQ36AyDIHwNFtYYqkz4
Coz, while in Cold Gin, did you ever play any of the NJ/NY KISS Expos in Hackensack? I could've sworn they played one of the conventions I went to back in the mid/late 90's.
I did not. It's possible the earlier iteration of the band did, but in the late 90's Kiss Tributes were huge. There were lots of them and a few of them were based out of NY.
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Thanks to you assholes I listened The Elder on the way to work today! ;D
I would love to have heard this with a Lick It Up style production. All the life is sucked out of these tracks by the production.
Ezrin was pretty fucked up himself during this time period.
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I listened to it today also. :lol
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WOW. Not to be confrontational or to prolong the controversy, but the production is one of the things I LOVE about ...The Elder, especially as compared to the next two with Michael "Not the 'Beat It' Guy" Jackson. I always though Lick It Up was a shade too thin. I'm kinda glad they didn't use the drum sound from "Creatures" (I get that it was inspirational, but it's a shade over the top for me) but I still think the Ezrin produced records are as a group the best SOUNDING of the Kiss records (the Eddie Kramer records are next).
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6. Lick It Up (1983): One of the more famous of the post-originals albums, this is the first one released after the epic unveiling on September 18, 1983 (my first reaction: "I would have put on makeup too") of Kiss without their makeup (actually, the album was released on the same day). The album was a hit, though Paul has famously said “the fans were listening with their eyes”, because the record is in a lot of ways more a sequel to the previous years’ “Creatures of the Night”, even down to the personnel. Co-writing all but two songs, Vinnie Vincent continued to bring his melodic sensibility to the band, and here he instilled a positive energy and a confidence in the group, one of only three albums to have no outside writers on it. The title track is one of the very few non-makeup songs to remain in the setlist after the makeup reunion, and is one of only two non-makeup songs played by the original band on the reunion tours. Controversial statement: I think Gene is on fire on this record. I could do without “Young and Wasted”, but “Not For The Innocent” and the last three songs on the record are classic Gene. I’m less enamored with the Paul songs; these don’t sound like the classic Paul from the solo album and are a lot more…. whiny-er, for lack of a better word. Paul starts to sing in a higher register here and it’s not my favorite but the songs are strong. I may not LOVE every song, but the only truly weak moment is the “what be this, and what be that?” part of the “All Hell’s…” rap. But I actually like the rest of the song (the second of only three songs credited to the four current members of the band). The worst part of this album is by far the videos; for such a visual band on stage, the videos for this record are comical and cringe-inducing.
Trivia: What are the three Eric Carr-era songs played by the original band live? What are the other two albums in the catalogue to have NO outside writers, only current band members?
5. Kiss (1974): Where the fire started, and still burns today. It’s not a coincidence that seven of the ten songs were also on the seminal “Alive!” record (and the remaining three were known to be played live), and anywhere from two to four of the songs regularly appear in the set list to this day. The album contains one of my top three favorite Kiss tunes ever (“Deuce”) and several others that are still strong favorites (“Cold Gin”, “Black Diamond”, “100,000 Years”, “Firehouse”). I think the fact that many of these songs had been played for years prior to their recording really shows. The solo in “100,000 Years” is by far my favorite by Ace. Even the two ‘filler’ tunes – “Kissin’ Time”, a cover recorded and added to the record after its initial release, and “Love Theme From Kiss”, an instrumental fragment from a live staple (the first of only three songs credited to the four current members of the band) – are listenable. Sometimes the production gets knocked, but I actually LOVE the sound of this record, and for me, it is in large part what I think of when I think of Kiss. The cover – an homage to “With The Beatles” – shows the makeup in transition for Ace and Gene, and Peter’s was done by an outside makeup professional for the first and only time.
Trivia: What song did Paul play for Gene upon their first meeting? What was the first song that Ace played with the band? What is the third of the three songs in the catalogue credited to all four current members at the time?
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3 Eric Carr songs played by the original band? I'm gonna go with Lick It Up, Heaven's on Fire, and I Love It Loud.
I think the first song Paul played for Gene was Sunday Driver, which became Let Me Know. First song Ace played with the band was Deuce.
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3 Eric Carr songs played by the original band? I'm gonna go with Lick It Up, Heaven's on Fire, and I Love It Loud.
I think the first song Paul played for Gene was Sunday Driver, which became Let Me Know. First song Ace played with the band was Deuce.
You're disqualified. :) Seriously, nice job. They have played a fair amount from Creatures with the current lineup, but you are right: Peter and Ace have only played LIU, HOF and ILIL live.
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:biggrin:
HOF and ILIL were guesses, actually. I knew LIU was the obvious one and HOF seemed fairly obvious. Both are pretty easy songs to play, so Peter and Ace could handle them. I knew it couldn't have been Tears are Falling, because Ace could never come close to touching a solo like that. :lol
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Also, regarding 100,000 years, I remember reading a quote from Ace about that solo in Guitar World a long time ago. Fortunately Wikipedia has it:
"I spent a lot of time listening to and relearning a lot of the solos I used to do," remarked Frehley during the band's 1996 reunion. "Like the one in '100,000 Years' – I was listening to it before the tour started, thinking it was just about the nuttiest solo I'd ever heard. I'd never write something like that today."
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[...] this is the first one released after the epic unveiling on September 18, 1983 (my first reaction: "I would have put on makeup too")
:rollin
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I love the whole of Lick It Up. I'm a huge VV fan, just a shame he's a complete nutter. I probably like more songs on this than Creatures, but CotN's highs are higher. And I agree about the gene songs, some very good ones. I don't mind the production.
First album is a classic for good reason.
I Better start rating the albums, you're nearly done :biggrin:
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I'm a huge VV fan, just a shame he's a complete nutter.
All Systems Go is ridiculously fucking awesome.
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I was pretty put off the first time I listened to Elder.
But then, I recently listened to it again, and I thought it was just awful.
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Sooooooo there's still a chance Hef? :lol
Line it up with the Peter Criss solo album and you'll feel much better.
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Sooooooo there's still a chance Hef? :lol
Line it up with the Peter Criss solo album and you'll feel much better.
Not much of a chance. For either one.
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I have not played the Peter Criss solo album since I bought the remaster in the 90's.
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^^^^ HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You bought the remaster!!! HAHAHAHAHA!
I'm kidding, though I will say that it is the ONLY Kiss album pre-CD that I have only bought one copy of. Meaning, I have replaced every piece of vinyl (f*** you Howard) with CD EXCEPT for Peter's solo album.
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I'm down to four, and I will say this; I've made it a point to listen to every album I've ranked here at least once during this process, for a fresh take, and like Schroedinger's Cat, the final four could be anything until they are published. That's not really true, as I know the number one, but 2 through 4 are subject to change over the next 24 hours.
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^^^^ HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You bought the remaster!!! HAHAHAHAHA!
I'm kidding, though I will say that it is the ONLY Kiss album pre-CD that I have only bought one copy of. Meaning, I have replaced every piece of vinyl (f*** you Howard) with CD EXCEPT for Peter's solo album.
At the time I only had the newer albums on CD so for $6.99 each it was an easy call. Hell, I paid $6.99 to never play Peter's CD! :lol
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I'm a huge VV fan, just a shame he's a complete nutter.
All Systems Go is ridiculously fucking awesome.
I prefer the 1st one for the complete over the top mentalness of it. Plus, Slaughter's voice grates like nails on a black board.
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Slaughter's voice is a million times better than Robert Fleischman. I hated his voice.
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WOW. Not to be confrontational or to prolong the controversy, but the production is one of the things I LOVE about ...The Elder,
Well, but of course you do! :lol
It has no balls.
I love the 80's run of Paul's opening tracks:
The Oath
Creatures Of The Night
Exciter
I've Had Enough
King Of The Mountain
as for the first alum, Black Diamond and 100,000 Years are Top 10 KISS tracks for me.
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Slaughter's voice is a million times better than Robert Fleischman. I hated his voice.
This, though I wouldn't say I hated Fleischman's voice. He had some similarity to Slaughter.
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They both are pretty bad, but I prefer the Flieshman album.
Twisted :metal
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The ex-Journey guy???
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Yup.
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I still haven't actually heard Lick It Up, but I love the title track. The debut album is great. The studios versions of those songs sound a bit bare and weak compared to the Alive versions, but the production is good, and I still enjoy listening to it. So many great songs.
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Slaughter's voice is a million times better than Robert Fleischman. I hated his voice.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I don't love Fleishmans voice but I just prefer it to Slaughter. It fit the OTT nature of that first VVI album.
ASG toned everything down and whilst it was a decent album, that 1st one is special.
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Yeah, I love the debut. :metal
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Debut LP: Whether there are warts or not, I still like the album after all these years. I enjoyed hearing the studio versions almost a year after 'Alive', though the end of 'Black Diamond' for the first time (and second and third....) was a WTF moment. That was/is different.....but it works in such a strange way. Loved the 'easter egg' solo at the end of 'Let Me Know' that was used live at the end of 'She'. It was only a year ago when making a 'best of' cdr for a friend that I learned of the 'Kissin' Time' addition.
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Here's an interesting thing - when I first bought the debut album, on cassette, for some reason Nothin' to Lose was the version from Alive. For many, many years, I'd never heard the actual studio version, because nothing I owned had it.
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KISS debut album may be my favorite debut out of any band. It just has so many classic songs, with Black Diamond and 100.000 Years being my two favorites.
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Here's an interesting thing - when I first bought the debut album, on cassette, for some reason Nothin' to Lose was the version from Alive. For many, many years, I'd never heard the actual studio version, because nothing I owned had it.
Interesting.... Just saw this on Wiki. It must have applied to the cassettes pressed at the time as well.
In the late 1980s, the album was repressed by Mercury Records with a live version of "Nothin' to Lose" in place of the studio version. To date, the repressed version is still available in stores in vinyl format.
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Odd. No idea why they would do that. Makes no sense.
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I was the same with RnRAN - the only version I knew for many years was that on Killers.
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I like the original studio ending to "Black Diamond". Such a weird and cool thing to do to close your first album.
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By the way, the third song to be written by all four member is "Back To The Stone Age" off Monster, and the two other records to not have one outside writer are Sonic Boom and Monster.
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6. Lick It Up (1983): One of the more famous of the post-originals albums, this is the first one released after the epic unveiling on September 18, 1983 (my first reaction: "I would have put on makeup too") of Kiss without their makeup (actually, the album was released on the same day). The album was a hit, though Paul has famously said “the fans were listening with their eyes”, because the record is in a lot of ways more a sequel to the previous years’ “Creatures of the Night”, even down to the personnel. Co-writing all but two songs, Vinnie Vincent continued to bring his melodic sensibility to the band, and here he instilled a positive energy and a confidence in the group, one of only three albums to have no outside writers on it. The title track is one of the very few non-makeup songs to remain in the setlist after the makeup reunion, and is one of only two non-makeup songs played by the original band on the reunion tours. Controversial statement: I think Gene is on fire on this record. I could do without “Young and Wasted”, but “Not For The Innocent” and the last three songs on the record are classic Gene. I’m less enamored with the Paul songs; these don’t sound like the classic Paul from the solo album and are a lot more…. whiny-er, for lack of a better word. Paul starts to sing in a higher register here and it’s not my favorite but the songs are strong. I may not LOVE every song, but the only truly weak moment is the “what be this, and what be that?” part of the “All Hell’s…” rap. But I actually like the rest of the song (the second of only three songs credited to the four current members of the band). The worst part of this album is by far the videos; for such a visual band on stage, the videos for this record are comical and cringe-inducing.
So I basically checked out on KISS after Dynasty. I was really still just a kid at the time. Never got Unmasked, or The Elder when they came out. I started branching out and coming of age music wise and KISS were largely in my past. In fact, Creatures flew under my radar as well. I bring this up because when Lick It Up came out, I was very into hard rock music and after watching the vids, I actually didn't think Lick It Up (the song) and All Hell's were even that bad, other than the horrid videos. I even remember them touring and playing the Centrum (w/ Accept!!). But I never bought Lick It Up, and still wasn't taking them seriously.
But when Animalize came out, I decided to jump in and I bought it. I loved it, and then I subsequently went back and rediscovered KISS. Had they played in Providence, I definitely would've seen that show, but they played Worcester, and it was a bit too far for my parents.
So when Asylum came out, I was full blown back into KISS. To me, Lick It Up has aged really well. I'm far more of a Paul guy than a Gene guy (by miles), but I love And On The 8th Day, maybe one of my all time favorite Gene songs.
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Not for the Innocent is one of my top Kiss songs ever.
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Do bootlegs exist for any of the Elder shows they played in Europe? And another question. Ace mimed all the promotional stuff they did for Elder, but did he actually play the stuff live?
I am still looking into the European shows. Most info I have says that was Vinnie, but in the Kissology II booklet, Paul does say (rather magnanimously) that Ace did do a few Creatures shows in Europe. He's usually pretty right on the facts (if not the emotion) of Kiss, so... I'll keep looking.
Having said that, I rewatched the Friday's show, where Kiss appeared and played "The Oath", "World Without Heroes" and "I". It was NOT lip synched, in my opinion. "The Oath" was AMAZING, even though Ace's solo was less than inspired, WWH was better than the album (though Paul took the solo and it was... rudimentary at best) and "I" was okay. They staged it as if "I" was like the set-closer, and it's just not that good a song, though I can't get over how good "The Oath" was.
Having said all that, there's no reason that they couldn't have taped an alternate version and mimed to THAT, but I don't think that's the case.
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4. Rock and Roll Over (1976): I am sorry for the delay, but let me be honest; I decided to go back this weekend and re-listen to the top four. This is a great album and when I started the list it was actually number one, but over the past weekend it didn’t click like it had, so I’m putting it here. But let’s be clear: I think this is an amazing album. Strong songs (only “Baby Driver” is really weak), strong playing (Paul sings his ass off on this record), and strong sound (it was recorded “live” in a theater in New York). Although six of the ten songs have been played live, this is poorly represented in the recent live sets, with only “Calling Dr. Love” seeing any real play. I think side two of this record is one of the best album sides in the catalogue; the only three that come close are Creatures side two, Destroyer side two, and Hotter Than Hell side one (in alphabetical order!). In trying to rationalize why it might have slipped, I can only say that it’s because it was the follow-up to an incredibly strong record, and as good as it is, it doesn’t match up song for song. “Hard Luck Woman” (famously written by Paul for Rod Stewart, but Gene wouldn’t give it up) is a pale attempt to capitalize on the success of “Beth”; “Calling Dr. Love”, while a good song, is really just a Gene showcase, just not as definitive as “God Of Thunder”. The “lesser” Gene songs are strong – “Love ‘Em and Leave ‘Em” is a top ten Kiss song for me, and I love “See You In Your Dreams” – and “Makin’ Love” is possibly my favorite Paul song in the catalogue, but on the whole, this is a great album by a band riding the wave as opposed to treading new territory. Also, not to pile on, but while some of Ace’s solos are excellent (“Take Me”, Love ‘Em…” and “Makin’ Love”) Peter’s drumming is not the tribal experience it was on previous records (particularly on Destroyer and Hotter Than Hell). My motto is, in case of a tie, the earlier work should prevail, and such is the case here. The cover is my favorite of the “drawn” (i.e. not a photo of the band) covers.
Trivia: What was the source of inspiration for “Calling Dr. Love”?
3. Destroyer (1976): In recording their follow-up to the ground-breaking success, Alive!, the band took a pretty strong left turn, relatively speaking, bringing in Alice Cooper producer Bob Ezrin to run the show. The band’s sound changed radically into a more polished, less gritty sound, as compared to their first three albums, and it paid off with their first platinum album. Like the debut, Destroyer has played a heavy role in setlists to this day, with up to six of the nine songs appearing in any given show. For me, there is no filler on this record, though “Great Expectations” is not essential, and I’m not the hugest fan of “Beth” (though I used to sing it to my daughter as she fell asleep). The rest I love; “Flaming Youth”, “Shout It Out Loud” and “Do You Love Me?” are all solid, and I actually like “Sweet Pain”. “God of Thunder” and “Detroit Rock City” are still concert staples, the former being Gene’s solo spot, featuring his blood and flying (he usually sings the song from atop the lighting truss). I’m usually a “Gene” guy, but this is probably Paul’s strongest record, singing five (and half) of the albums nine songs. The “half”, “Shout It Out Loud” (one of my favorite Kiss songs), is split with Gene in a classic call-and-response. My daughter was thrilled when I played that in the car; you can clearly hear Gene panned to the left and Paul panned to the right during the verses, a very cool effect. It’s not my absolute favorite, but it is many people’s favorite, and for good reason. It’s a solid record that captures almost every enduring aspect of Kiss.
Trivia: The cover was painted by Ken Kelley; can you name two other prominent album covers painted by Kelley?
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Calling Dr. Love was inspired by an episode of the Three Stooges at the Holiday Inn in Evansville, Indiana. :)
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Rock n Roll Over :tup Great album.
Destroyer :tdwn: Overrated. Detroit Rock City is excellent, as is God of Thunder, and Shout it Out Loud has grown on me to a pretty good song, Beth is a decent enough song if you pretend that it's not KISS, but other than that, it's got nothin' else I'd listen to. Great Expectations is just horrible.
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King of the Night Time World has always been one of my favorite Kiss songs, quite possibly my favorite altogether.
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Calling Dr. Love was inspired by an episode of the Three Stooges at the Holiday Inn in Evansville, Indiana. :)
"Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard!"
Nice.
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King of the Night Time World has always been one of my favorite Kiss songs, quite possibly my favorite altogether.
To this day I'm still disappointed that when I saw KISS, they opened with that mediocre track, while the Melbourne show a few days beforehand got Creatures of the fucking Night instead.
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Oh ouch. :lol
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Your number four is my number one. A tremendous album.
Am I the only one who prefers Hard luck woman to Beth? For me it's not even close actually.
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Your number four is my number one. A tremendous album.
Am I the only one who prefers Hard luck woman to Beth? For me it's not even close actually.
Nope, I'd also put Hard Luck Woman well above Beth, even though I like both songs.
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also in the HLW > Beth camp
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Ditto.
I thought it was interesting to find out that "Hard Luck Woman" was written for Rod Stewart. I'd never made the connection before, but it does sound like it could be a Rod Stewart song. His voice isn't exactly the same, but it has that same raspy quality to it as well.
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King of the Night Time World has always been one of my favorite Kiss songs, quite possibly my favorite altogether.
Might just be my favourite, but I'd take the Alive II version.
Can't argue with these being so high but Destroyer has been a bit overplayed because of its greatness. The production is immense and Udo's to Ezrin for bringing all the talent together and showcasing it.
I've never been the biggest fan of RnRO and I'm not sure why. I like most of the songs well enough. Not a fan of See You In... But the rest is fine. I prefer the Alive II versions of CDL and LR so maybe it's a production issue, though I'm not consciously aware that there's anything wrong with it. Destroyer aside it was a more KISS sounding album than its predecessors.
One thing you mention in the write up about RnRO having the best side 2 other than Creatures... I've always preferred side one of Creatures and thought side 2 dropped the quality a bit with. ILIL! ISLY and Killer.
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Here you are Mr Ezrin
(https://imguol.com/c/entretenimento/2015/04/23/udo-dirkschneider-ex-vocalista-do-accept-1429840736587_300x420.jpg)(https://imguol.com/c/entretenimento/2015/04/23/udo-dirkschneider-ex-vocalista-do-accept-1429840736587_300x420.jpg)(https://imguol.com/c/entretenimento/2015/04/23/udo-dirkschneider-ex-vocalista-do-accept-1429840736587_300x420.jpg)
I agree with Blob on Destroyer - one third killer and lots of filler.
Can't say I was ever a huge fan of King of The Night Time World - like it but not a big fave.
Hard Luck Woman > Beth ..........yes , although it's a bit too Rod Stewart for me to be a big favourite.
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Udo's!!!
:rollin
:metal
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also in the HLW > Beth camp
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In my world, there's never enough references to Udo (even though I'm not a huge fan of his music per se).
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In my world, there's never enough references to Udo (even though I'm not a huge fan of his music per se).
Huge classic Accept fan here!
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Talking about the notion of "overplayed", these lists are problematic for that reason. I tend to pick albums out of the pile to listen to if I haven't gone back to them in a while, but as much as I've heard Detroit... and Shout... a brazilian times, every time I hear them I turn the radio up and start singing along. The only song on Destroyer that is sort of ruined for me in that way is God of Thunder. It's a great riff, it's excellent live, but in terms of sitting down with headphones and listening, well, it's kind of a novelty.
When I did the list initially it was:
1. Rock and Roll Over
2. Hotter Than Hell
3. Creatures of the Night
4. Destroyer
and on Friday, I had to be a taxi for my daughter to/from school, then to/from a school function (including sitting and waiting for her) and so I listened to all four boom boom boom, and the answer was clear. Destroyer is just a kick ass, stomp your feet, stand up and shout hard rock record. As Paul says in "Flaming Youth", "WHOA YEAH!"
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In my world, there's never enough references to Udo (even though I'm not a huge fan of his music per se).
:metal
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I've impressed my kids because I've convinced them that in the live version on Alive II of Shout It Paul sings what sounds like "turn it up Paul Lowder!" (My name for those that don't know).
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Wait! You mean that's NOT what he says? :omg:
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Wait! You mean that's NOT what he says? :omg:
Hey, I always thought it was!
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I'll say that Hard Luck Woman was probably my first favorite KISS song. And While I love I Want You and even Makin' Love, I could never ever rate RnRO this high.
But I cannot argue with Destroyer. Flaming Youth rules! But Great Expectations...blows!
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King of the Night Time World has always been one of my favorite Kiss songs, quite possibly my favorite altogether.
To this day I'm still disappointed that when I saw KISS, they opened with that mediocre track, while the Melbourne show a few days beforehand got Creatures of the fucking Night instead.
Sometimes I just want to blobslap you.
Though Creatures is a fantastic tune.
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I definitely like KOTNW but Creatures kills it!
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There should have been another song to drop and keep both on! Open with Creatures then KOTNW.
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Open with Creatures then KOTNW.
(https://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/120710062226-gene-simmons-horizontal-gallery.jpg)
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Well all right.
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Your number four is my number one. A tremendous album.
Am I the only one who prefers Hard luck woman to Beth? For me it's not even close actually.
I agree as well. I have more KISS CDs than any other band by about double. I must have over 20. It's pretty ridiculous. This thread is quality. :hat
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By way, Coz got the "Calling Dr. Love" trivia; the other answer is "Love Gun" and "Rainbow Rising".
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2. Creatures Of The Night (1982): Presaged by the four songs from Kiss Killers, this was the return to form after a period of upheaval and misdirection. The album is still in some ways transitional, as Ace appears on the cover (and even in one of the promotional videos for the album, “I Love It Loud”) but doesn’t play a note on the actual album, but this is where that energy that fueled “Lick It Up” really began. Vincent Cusano (“Vinnie Vincent”) co-wrote three songs and played lead guitar on six of the nine songs. Paul is pushing the envelope a little, starting to sing in that higher, more whine-y register (which as I noted, is not my favorite) but songs like “Keep Me Comin’” and “Danger” are very good, and exemplify the best of Kiss at that point. Having said that, the Gene songs carry the day for me. Every single one of them is solid for me, and I think of all the members, Gene responds most to the infusion of new blood. He may not be the best musician in Kiss, but he is the most versatile by a long shot, and he seems to have great (not good, GREAT) songs across the spectrum of the catalogue. Whether it’s the early, gritty “New York” albums – “Deuce”, the mid-period “disco” records – “Naked City”, “X-Ray Eyes”, the subsequent, non-makeup “L.A.” records – any of the deeper tracks off “Animalize”, the grunge record – “Childhood’s End?”, the “rebirth” record – “Unholy”, or the “reunion” records – “Russian Roullette”, Gene seems to always have something that is on message and that delivers. Paul may be the brains of Kiss, but Gene is the heart and soul, in my opinion. This record has survived the test of time for me as few after the “original six” have, and I think the band agrees; “I Love It Loud” is a setlist staple, and songs like “War Machine”, “I Still Love You” and the title track still get played live regularly. I still listen to this often, and it’s especially good in the car. The cover is one of my three favorites.
Trivia: Who did Gene meet for the first time during the recording of “I Love It Loud”? What famous actress is the subject of Paul’s song “I Still Love You”?
1. Hotter Than Hell (1974): Always a favorite, but for various reasons, when I went back and listened, this album grabbed me in a way that was actually a little shocking, even to me. Unlike the first album, which was more of a “hey look at US!” statement, this was darker, and had an air of urgent desperation borne from months on the road with little impact. That first side, from “Got To Choose” all the way through one of my favorite Kiss songs (and favorite song on the album) “Let Me Go, Rock and Roll” is for me the standard by which all others are measured. This, for me, is an album of bests. Certainly, it’s Peter’s best performance (as a whole), and I can only wish there were more moments on later albums like his borderline-out-of-control performances on “Let Me Go…” and the outro of “Watchin’ You”. It is, in my opinion, Ace’s best album as well; “Parasite” is probably my favorite of Ace’s Kiss songs (though “Cold Gin” is close), but his soloing on this record is uniformly excellent, and his work on the opener, “Parasite”, “Hotter Than Hell” (the OUTRO!!!), “Let Me Go…” (with the SRV-like slides) and “Strangeways” are all noticeable and noteworthy. I’ve always been fascinated by “Goin’ Blind” (I can remember thinking “this is WEIRD, but loving it nonetheless), and my lame-o 12-year-old brain thought Paul was a bad-ass among bad-asses for having the chance to bang a married chick. Side two is still strong, particularly “Strangeways”, and as usual I love the Gene songs, “All The Way” and “Watchin’ You”. By the way, anyone who questions Kiss as a band – particularly as a live band – you HAVE to check out the video of the show at the Winterland in San Francisco, in January of 1975. It is INCENDIARY – it really has to be seen to be believed - and shows just how good a band they could be. Speaking of images, this is also by far my favorite album cover; it’s the first appearance of the “chikara” symbol, which later played a more prominent role in the band’s imagery, ending up on Eric Carr’s bass drum for a while, and the photo shoot itself is the stuff of legend at this point (though a lot of it is fiction).
Trivia: What are the two “mistakes” on the front cover?
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Creatures of the Night. :metal
As I said about Hotter Than Hell earlier in the thread, in terms of songs, it's awesome, but the versions of the songs on the album aren't the best, and the production is horrid. I rank it third of the first 6 albums, but it would be second with good production. :tup
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I love Hotter than Hell. Besides the production, every song is solid. The Winterland concert on the first Kissology box features a nice chunk of this album played live. Great early Kiss performance.
For the two mistakes on the cover, is one of them Paul being so drunk that Peter Criss had to hold him up for the picture? Not sure what the other one is, might have to do with the Japanese characters.
Cool list Stadler! :tup
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HTH is my favorite also. As far as the cover, the one thing that comes to me right off was something along the lines of Ace getting into a car accident and messing up his face, so they had to do some sort of odd mirror imaging of his face on the cover or something like that.
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Well, there are pictures out there with Ace's makeup half on; however, the cover was done in multiple shoots and there are many WITH full makeup. I believe - though I can't confirm - that the front cover is from the shoot with full makeup.
As for the back, PAUL was so drunk he had to be taken to the car and locked in for his safety. Peter claims to have gotten head from the girl in front of him, but Lydia Criss later said that was bullshit. There's also a cool picture of Gene in costume with the chalice and the flame... but he's in a garage with a car next to him, a work bench and a garage door (you can tell in the picture that it is cropped to fit his image). There's some great stories about the photo shoot; apparently Norman Sheef threw a big party for the shoot. It's an interesting Google (there are some shots of Paul looking out of his tits and falling off the bed).
The two mistakes are both on the FRONT cover.
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As for the "production", I'm not in denial on the sound, but for me, production is not an important criteria except in the most egregious cases. I have been listening to this album in this form for almost 40 years, and frankly, it would seem odd any other way at this point.
Kiss Best Sounding Records:
1. The Elder
2. Revenge
3. Destroyer/Rock And Roll Over
Kiss Worst Sounding Records:
1. Monster
2. Lick It Up
3. Hotter Than Hell
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I'm happy with these being so high. Two great albums and likely to be up there for me too. I ;love side 1 of Creatures. I really can't stand ILIL. Never liked it. Drags the whole of side 2 down as well.
Those drums! Huge.
Hotter Than Hell is just a great album.
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Stadler, thank you a lot! Your review were great!
My TOP 5 would probably be:
5. Kiss
4. Hotter Than Hell
3. Ace Frehley
2. Destroyer
1. Hotter Than Hell
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Dude, I love HTH so much, I'd probably put it in my top 5 twice also. :lol
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Dude, I love HTH so much, I'd probably put it in my top 5 twice also. :lol
:lol
Same here!
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Awesome list and great writeups! I agree with so much of your rankings it´s insane.
My favourite solo album has always been Paul´s. I still love the debut album with a passion and Hotter than Hell has always had a special place in my heart. If they´d just gotten good production on that, although it might be some of the attraction.
Man I love this band, this has just been a trip through nostalgia..... :metal :tup
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Very good pick for number one, I really enjoyed the list overall. :tup
Confession time - I've never listened to Creatures of the night. I should probably fix that...
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Creatures is the album they needed to release instead of The Elder for their career at that moment.
Great write ups Stadler! thanks for bringing back great memories!
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The best thing about this is the love for the music, after all the crap they get thrown at them for being a gimmick.nwould never have worked without the songs. And they had them in abundance.
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Yep, that's my biggest gripe with most people who love to rip on Kiss because it's cool to do so. They ALWAYS go with the tired "all flash, no substance" bullshit. And it's just that - bullshit. Whether or not you like the music is one thing. To say that they didn't make good music is subjective, but there are more than enough people who celebrate their music to dispense with that tired argument.
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And more importantly, not just one or two good songs, and not just one or two good albums. You can certainly argue with my list but think about that for a second: when your top five are virtually interchangeable, AND it doesn't include not one, but TWO fan favorites (Ace's solo and Revenge), that's a pretty strong catalogue. You have to get to 15 or 16 before you get a REAL clunker (and for me, an apologist, it's more like 20 or even more).
By the way, guys, any of you that think HTH is a top five album with me, please do check out the Kissology set with the live show from the end of the HTH tour in San Francisco. It's in black and white, but you get a real first hand chance to see what all the fuss was about.
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Cool picks and a great job with the write ups!
Creatures of the Night is by far my favorite Kiss album.
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Nice job, Stadler!
:clap:
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I have the Kissology DVDs. They are great stuff, though I had most of that stuff on bootleg for years.
Hotter Than Hell is easily my favorite KISS album. I love every song. Even the deep cuts like Comin' Home and All The Way. Strange Ways is a Top 5 KISS track for me as well. So freaking cool.
Paul wrote in his Bio (which is amazing BTW) that he wanted to take the make up off for Creatures. I really wish they had. It really is an amazing album.
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I found the Paul book fantastic. To read about Gene being self centered early on to Peter being a raging idiot to Ace being Ace was fun to read and get the incite to the workings of the band.
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The only thing I wish the book went more in depth with was his relationship with Gene. To have such a successful career tied to Gene's hip, I found the lack of reference disappointing.
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The only thing I wish the book went more in depth with was his relationship with Gene. To have such a successful career tied to Gene's hip, I found the lack of reference disappointing.
It felt like at times he had to prod Gene to work on the music.
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I've read all the KISS autobiographies and enjoyed them all. Peter comes across as a whiny bitch, it's always "the Jews'" fault.
Ace's pissed me off just by the title: he should have regrets, especially the life his daughter will have been exposed to.
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I would have no interest in reading Peter's of Gene's. But I did read Ace's. To me, a good bio is when you feel as if it is being told in their own voice, as was Paul's. Ace's was not told in his voice at all. No way Ace talks the way that it reads.
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I agree with you Tim. Paul, Peter's was a whinefest. He's the type of guy that blames everyone but himself. He's his own worst enemy.
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It's Game Night at the TACs!
Anyone remember this?
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/006_zpslodaw8d1.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/006_zpslodaw8d1.jpg.html)
You roll the dice and you can pick up KISS Cards where you follow the instructions. Here are a few:
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/007_zpsbr8qrqde.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/007_zpsbr8qrqde.jpg.html)
The goal is to collect as many points as possible, by claiming a city, or collecting Fan Club and Record Store points!
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/008_zps8pkptskq.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/008_zps8pkptskq.jpg.html)
..and after that, we can do puzzles!!
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/009_zps4ssnxmcu.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/009_zps4ssnxmcu.jpg.html)
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Awesome! I never had the game.
I listened to the first album again today, for the first time in a long time. Holy shit, man, is that a great album. And the sound on it is freakin' immaculate!
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some of my old KISS cards. I don't have much other KISS memorabilia - necklace, bandana :metal , badges and souvenirs like a Convention pass etc......but nothing substantial. We have the modern Kissopoly - I have to remove a few of the cards so my son can play :lol T-shirts............well I could wear a different KISS t shirt each day for close to a month without doubling up :lol
(https://s15.postimg.org/o801net97/IMG_9208_1.jpg)
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The problem with Ace's book is that he has no recollection of most items included in it. The majority of it is stories retold to him by friends and acquaintances. He says he's working on his 2nd book. I'm curious as to how that'll work out.
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It's Game Night at the TACs!
Anyone remember this?
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/006_zpslodaw8d1.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/006_zpslodaw8d1.jpg.html)
You roll the dice and you can pick up KISS Cards where you follow the instructions. Here are a few:
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/007_zpsbr8qrqde.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/007_zpsbr8qrqde.jpg.html)
The goal is to collect as many points as possible, by claiming a city, or collecting Fan Club and Record Store points!
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/008_zps8pkptskq.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/008_zps8pkptskq.jpg.html)
..and after that, we can do puzzles!!
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/009_zps4ssnxmcu.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/009_zps4ssnxmcu.jpg.html)
Oh I had this game. Caught my cousin cheating and I flipped the table the game board was on and stomped out the room. :lol
What a drama queen I was.
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I've read the book Kiss and Tell, about Ace, written by Gordon Gebert, who hung with Ace a lot back in the day. Not a very flattering portrayal, at all.
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I've thought this before, but after watching the '75 show that Stadler mentions, and spinning Dressed To Kill this morning, what a waste of talent Ace was. He really wasn't a bad guitar player. But he came nowhere close to his potential. And I'd say the same thing about Peter. I mean, does anyone really have a problem with his drumming, especially on those first few albums? And his voice was fantastic.
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I've already listened to Kiss and HTH this morning. I'm on DTK right now. Ace was really on fire back then, as was Peter. It went to crap fast. Ace could have been really much bigger than he was, but he really shit the bed.
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A couple other pics (I've posted these before):
My grandmother (who was the best BTW!) made me a KISS Cake when I was a kid:
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/Kiss%20Cake_zpsnybttrzu.jpeg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/Kiss%20Cake_zpsnybttrzu.jpeg.html)
Also, here is me and my brother, 1979 I believe, for Halloween. I'm Gene, in my mother's boots, hockey stock guitar, and aluminum foil demon hider!
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/KissHall.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/KissHall.jpg.html)
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I agree with you Tim. Paul, Peter's was a whinefest. He's the type of guy that blames everyone but himself. He's his own worst enemy.
You almost have to read Peter's for the others to make sense though. I always thought that Gene was very unfair to Pete and Ace (with the "addict" references and what not) but I had a breakthrough after reading Peter's, and now I am FIRMLY in the Paul and Gene camp. I'm not like Gene in thinking that ALL addiction is "choice", but certainly in the case of Peter, he plowed his own row. He's responsible for where he found himself, full stop. Ace knew better too, but he delivered. He did the promo for the Creatures material, because he had his issues but he didn't make others pay for them. I've said this before, but Peter lost all credibility with me with his performance on the Aerosmith/Kiss tour. It was EMBARASSING.
I too would love to know more about Gene and Paul. At times, they are like real brothers, but there is a discernible coldness there that I would love to have explained in more detail than just "we're brothers but sometimes we disagree", and Paul's book didn't do it.
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Stadler, does Gene's book address his relationship with Paul? I'm sure it doesn't and I have no real desire to read Gene tell me how great he (Gene) is. ;D
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Paul wrote in his Bio (which is amazing BTW) that he wanted to take the make up off for Creatures. I really wish they had. It really is an amazing album.
I got the 1985 reissue which had a non-makeup cover that for some reason has Bruce on it!
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I've thought this before, but after watching the '75 show that Stadler mentions, and spinning Dressed To Kill this morning, what a waste of talent Ace was. He really wasn't a bad guitar player. But he came nowhere close to his potential. And I'd say the same thing about Peter. I mean, does anyone really have a problem with his drumming, especially on those first few albums? And his voice was fantastic.
I like (not love) his voice, though I don't like his vocal stylings (the whispered, "to you, babe" after the horrid "I Finally Found My Way", but I will tell you, his playing on HTH is the stuff of legend. I don't drum, so it may be "sloppy", it may be something Mike (both of them) could play in their sleep, but in terms of listening, it just PROPELS the music. It's easily his greatest work, in my opinion.
I think Ace had sprinklings throughout; the first record was key; he's on fire on HTH, I think he's okay on DTK, nonexistent on Destroyer, I think he's on fire again on RnRO, and from then on, he's great on his stuff, and I think for the most part phones it in on the other members' songs.
I am definitely in the camp that agrees that Peter and Ace had the opportunity and didn't make the most of it.
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Stadler, does Gene's book address his relationship with Paul? I'm sure it doesn't and I have no real desire to read Gene tell me how great he (Gene) is. ;D
No, except in the most generic of terms. Gene has nothing bad to say about Paul, but - as is typical with Gene - there isn't a lot of digging deep. Gene has a way of saying an awful lot, sharing what seems like deep details, but not really revealing much of real substance, and that is the case. Though it's a great book and not all "self-aggrandizing" as it may be assumed to be.
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Trivia Answers:
Who did Gene meet for the first time during the recording of “I Love It Loud”? Bruce Kulick, who would (in 1985) join the band officially as the lead guitar player (in what many consider the best lineup, musically).
What famous actress is the subject of Paul’s song “I Still Love You”? Donna "Mrs. Dan Ackroyd" Dixon, the super-, mega-hot actress who left Paul for Ackroyd (to whom she is still married to, to this day; she's still gorgeous, by the way).
What are the two “mistakes” on the front cover [of Hotter Than Hell]? The Japanese lettering in the upper right doesn't say "Hotter Than Hell", it says "Hell's Shout" or "the Shout of Hell" (which is still pretty cool) and the lettering adjacent to Ace's name says "Ace Fury", not "Ace Frehley" (which is also pretty cool).
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the lettering adjacent to Ace's name says "Ace Frehrey", not "Ace Frehley" (which is also pretty cool).
FTFY
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I saw this awhile back, but thought of it this morning. It's quite funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3s6OV9QjOQ
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I'm listening to Monster on Spotify, and damn, this is excellent.
Just ordered VERY CHEAP used versions of Monster and Sonic Boom from Amazon.
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I agree with you Tim. Paul, Peter's was a whinefest. He's the type of guy that blames everyone but himself. He's his own worst enemy.
You almost have to read Peter's for the others to make sense though. I always thought that Gene was very unfair to Pete and Ace (with the "addict" references and what not) but I had a breakthrough after reading Peter's, and now I am FIRMLY in the Paul and Gene camp. I'm not like Gene in thinking that ALL addiction is "choice", but certainly in the case of Peter, he plowed his own row. He's responsible for where he found himself, full stop. Ace knew better too, but he delivered. He did the promo for the Creatures material, because he had his issues but he didn't make others pay for them. I've said this before, but Peter lost all credibility with me with his performance on the Aerosmith/Kiss tour. It was EMBARASSING.
I too would love to know more about Gene and Paul. At times, they are like real brothers, but there is a discernible coldness there that I would love to have explained in more detail than just "we're brothers but sometimes we disagree", and Paul's book didn't do it.
Well, I think they always looked as Kiss as a brand to build on and Ace and Peter loved playing and having their fun. It's easy to look down at Peter because he was such a maniac. I was shocked they dealt with him for so long. I do agree that I loved his playing early on. The "swing" to his playing added a different dimension to the rock songs.
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I'm listening to Monster on Spotify, and damn, this is excellent.
Just ordered VERY CHEAP used versions of Monster and Sonic Boom from Amazon.
I knew you'd like them Tim. They both are modern versions of the old style of Kiss. They put their time into the writing and the recording.
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Eat Your Heart Out (which I'm hearing now for the first time) sounds like they ripped it right off of Asylum.
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[Can of worms being opened]: Does your version of Sonic Boom have the old songs re-recorded by the new band?
Personally, I think they are EXCELLENT and I defy any band after 35 years to re-record songs from their debut album and have them sound so good.
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What are the two “mistakes” on the front cover [of Hotter Than Hell]? The Japanese lettering in the upper right doesn't say "Hotter Than Hell", it says "Hell's Shout" or "the Shout of Hell" (which is still pretty cool) and the lettering adjacent to Ace's name says "Ace Fury", not "Ace Frehley" (which is also pretty cool).
I wouldn't consider the second one a mistake, technically. Asian names have their own symbols, of course, but if it's not an Asian name, only the ones which had made their way into the vernacular will have an ideogram. Essentially, each symbol = one word/concept/idea.
When translating Western names into Asian ideograms, there are several options. (1) If the name already exists in Chinese/Japanese and there's already a symbol for it, you use it. Obviously this would be the best option. (2) If the name is synonymous with something for which a symbol exists, use that. For example, a Japanese comic with Nick Fury might use the symbol for "fury" (extreme anger) and the symbol for "nick" (a small cut). But it wouldn't be quite correct to say that these are the symbols for the name. (3) If the name sounds close enough to a word for which there's a symbol, use that. There is no symbol for Frehley; it's not an Asian name, and it's not a synonym for anything, so they just picked something close enough, and Silly Americans won't know the difference.
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[Can of worms being opened]: Does your version of Sonic Boom have the old songs re-recorded by the new band?
Personally, I think they are EXCELLENT and I defy any band after 35 years to re-record songs from their debut album and have them sound so good.
I was worried you were going to say they sucked, but I agree with you! Some are better than others, but overall it's a great listen. I even prefer that recording of HTH to the original.
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Flaming Youth should've been the opener on Destroyer. Basically Side 2 should be Side 1.
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What stuck me about KISS (and still does to this day) was their diversity and song quality. You got a NYC street rock S/T debut followed up with a grungy, foreboding HTH, capped off by the glam rock assault of DTK. They tie it all together nicely with a live album and a re-packaging of the first three (The Originals).
From there, Bob Ezrin enters the picture and you get the slick, orchestrated Destroyer. Next, you get the meat and potatoes foot stomping rockers RARO and Love Gun. They tie all this together with Alive II and a re-packaging of the next 3 albums (The Originals II). For good measure, they also release the compilation album Double Platinum (and a made for TV movie).
Then you get 4 solo albums...Peter's rock/R&B/disco hybrid , Gene's everything but the kitchen sink hodgepodge, Paul's close to the vest rocker, and from out of left field a masterpiece in rock guitar from the Space Ace.
To end their run, you got a disco infused rocker-Dynasty, followed by a power pop extravaganza-Unmasked. This is all from 1974-1980...and you can easily fill up two discs worth of classics. Too many people listened with their eyes and this band never got (or gets) the credit they deserve (save for Tom Morello's induction speech which BTW gave me chills and had me ready to re-enlist in the KISS Army).
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Later on, they've apparently done full performances of The Oath on a couple Kiss Kruises.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6sbALlzUzQ
When the song starts, the crowd absolutely loses their shit.
That is fantasticly amazing!!!!
Just watched the Friday's clips from the DVD. Those three Elder tunes are top notch.
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I've been waiting for the Creatures discussion. But sitting in a bar waiting for Dream Theater is not the best time or place. But I'll try to summarize.
Why is the info on the Creatures era so tight lipped? I mean...it seems like we known a lot of the drama surrounding the breakup of the original band between the solo albums and The Elder. But for some reason, the true behind the scenes grit that has bubbled to the surface on that era is strangely absent in the VV years. Ace in particular has not ONE WORD to say about this album...which seems odd. Because it was the album he had been bitching that he wanted all along. And what was his comment when Kiss finally released the rockin album that he had always told them they should? "I never ever heard it." That is, in essence, his only commentary on the album. Which is bull crap anyway....because he at least played I Love It Loud on several occasions.
It's just hard for me to believe that....even with relations being as bad as they were...Ace didn't even give a fair listen to an amazing album. *IF* he would have given it a fair shake, maybe he could have just walked up to Paul and Gene during the video shoot, or even before a show, and just said...."THIS album is more of what I wanted. Do you think we can get back on track if we keep doing this stuff?" The fact that he didn't do that, seriously damages any credibility he has about leaving because the band was going in a direction he didn't like.
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You don't get that he wasn't on the album and it pissed him on? Why would he want to comment on something he didn't play on?
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It would piss me on too! On and on!! ;D
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Lol off dammit. I'll piss on you buddy. Lol
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It would piss me on too! On and on!! ;D
Also, you agree adding the "off"?! Lol
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there are plenty of women I have met in my time who turn me on and piss me off at the same time.
"piss me on" :tup
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there are plenty of women I have met in my time who turn me on and piss me off at the same time.
"piss me on" :tup
But what they're saying about you is "turn me off'. ;D
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I think Brent you would like that.
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:lol
I need to go back over this thread properly as I have only been skimming. I can't argue too much about these top albums. I always loved Creatures in particular . As a kid I could not stand War Machine (which seems to be a fan fave) but grew to like it after seeing it live. From the deep cuts Danger was always a favourite - Paul's vocal performance is outstanding.
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Well it's on my "crank at work tomorrow " list.
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I listened to Creatures today while cutting the front lawn. War Machine is awesome.
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Better watch oooouuuttteee!
At least that's what I sounds like. :lol
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Creatures is so overrated. The title track is great but for the most part, the rest is filler. I Still Love You drags unmercifully as does I Love It Loud (once the initial shine wears off). Killer and War Machine are standouts but the rest is forgotten at best. By this time, Ace was so far gone in a drunk/drug haze...even Paul tried to convince him to stay but he has no recollection of it. Bill Aucoin had been fired and KISS was a ship without a captain. Enter Vinnie Vincent.
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I listened to Creatures today while cutting the front lawn. War Machine is awesome.
:metal
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I've read some very interesting stuff in this thread but haven't been contributing very much to my shame. That is, off course, because as a once avid KISS fan, I sort of shut off my love for the band after the whole unmasked thing, and the unmasked period. I stopped buying their records, so I sort of have nothing to offer on them, which in hindsight is a damn shame. Because they made some pretty fucking great records AFTER their hayday.
But lets talk some more on the live KISS for a moment. I've listened to their early studio recordings and thought they couldn't top those versions. Untill I heard Alive.
Sure KISS was a show-band, the show element was VERY important. But once they started to groove, man, that was it! Listen to got to choose, when Peter start hitting that cowbell. Are you kidding me?! Firehouse? Cold Gin? Strutter? Get the fuck out! And then we start getting into stellar levels with Black Diamond and 100.000 Years. Sure when you start listening close, you hear the sloppiness and all that.
I don't care. When they got in that pocket, they f' in' ROCKED.
Also, to all you guys 'in the know', I would love to hear about the whole Eric Carr drama. I knew about his death off course, but the circomstances are a bit murky to me.
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Creatures is so overrated. The title track is great but for the most part, the rest is filler. I Still Love You drags unmercifully as does I Love It Loud (once the initial shine wears off). Killer and War Machine are standouts but the rest is forgotten at best. By this time, Ace was so far gone in a drunk/drug haze...even Paul tried to convince him to stay but he has no recollection of it. Bill Aucoin had been fired and KISS was a ship without a captain. Enter Vinnie Vincent.
Can't agree with all this (though I do about ILIL and ISLY). Keep Me Comin' and Danger are great (lyrics on the former aside :biggrin:). The two Gene songs on side 1 are standouts too.
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So here's a good question. A buddy posted to FB for people to post music to broaden his horizons. My niece, good kid that she is, suggested Kiss, but gave no specific suggestuons. What would you suggest to a new listener from the Kiss catalog? My immediate thought is Alive 1. Any arguments?
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None here. Alive! is always the best intro to what early KISS was all about, and thus the best introduction overall.
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Yup, no question.
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True story: When my son was three years old, his favorite bands were KISS and The Beatles. When our friends asked us if listening to kiddie music was driving us crazy yet (Radio Disney was a thing, and apparently so was listening to what your kids want instead of anything intelligent) we told them No way, because our kids listen to what we play, in the car, at home, whatever.
Everyone likes The Beatles, but KISS? Isn't that kind of... extreme? No. His favorite song was "Rock and Roll All Nite". He used to run around the house singing it. To a little kid, "Rock and roll all nite" means staying up late listening to music, and partying every day means going to a birthday party or something, every day. That's awesome. What a great, feel-good song.
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I like that pick.
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I like that pick.
Phew, that was a close one. I'm glad that sentence is spelled correctly! :lol
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It has to be Alive I, but if that doesn't count I vote for my first Kiss album: Double Platinum. Great set of songs.
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I like that pick.
Phew, that was a close one. I'm glad that sentence is spelled correctly! :lol
(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/zzENSDv_zpshrkmpfwe.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/zzENSDv_zpshrkmpfwe.jpg.html)
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(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/53379705.jpg)
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:lol
And what goes with ketchup?
(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/images%209_zpslcik3a6g.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/images%209_zpslcik3a6g.jpg.html)
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(https://s2.quickmeme.com/img/2c/2c36e24c59f18813c4f0a387dfdfaf3cf6c76415b6912a408acd8daa8b88bd6e.jpg)
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(https://media2.giphy.com/media/AxjfeKuEG4SK4/giphy.gif)
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Absolutely with a baked potato . Ketchup with hash browns. Ace agrees.
Had to tie in KISS with this. Lol
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/48/5a/dc/485adc33a6407f7e4c2a857f0b978691.jpg)
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^^^ I know I'm repeating myself, but if you're talking live Kiss, PLEASE find a copy of the first (and I would say, second, but start with the first) Kissology. There are a couple of shows in the '75, '76 timeframe that are LEGEND. Especially that '75 Winterland show. Firehouse is just unbelievable.
As for Ace and Creatures, he's gone on record as saying he left for his health. It was too little too late for him. There's a little blurb to this effect in the Kissology II booklet, as well as, I think, Paul's autobiography.
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If you put ketchup on a baked potato, don't talk to me.
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It has to be Alive I, but if that doesn't count I vote for my first Kiss album: Double Platinum. Great set of songs.
Problem with that is all the remixes. The remixes on Smashes are okay, because of the time period, but the '78 remixes (by Sean Delaney) are sort of lame-o.
I think Coz nailed it; Alive!. If you must go with a studio record, Destroyer. HTH is the best, but it's like learning to drive on a Porsche 944. You need to start out with the Pontiac Sunbird.
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Didn't realize anything besides Strutter had a remix (aside from Black Diamond's alternate ending). Maybe it's because I grew up with those versions, but I don't mind.
BTW I 100% second your recommendation of the Kissology boxes. I'm gonna go ahead and call it the best video collection of any band. The second one is my favorite, because it covers a wider range of the band's history, but the first one is the holy grail of early Kiss footage. The commentaries are also really interesting, although DT spoiled me with the commentaries for the whole concerts, rather than just the first few songs.
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As to 'remixes'......any thoughts regarding 'Destroyer: Resurrected'. I was going to buy it for a friend, but heard DRC, God of Thunder, and Shout It Out Loud on ytube, and just gasped at how those tracks were ruined. Enhancing is one thing......
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As to 'remixes'......any thoughts regarding 'Destroyer: Resurrected'. I was going to buy it for a friend, but heard DRC, God of Thunder, and Shout It Out Loud on ytube, and just gasped at how those tracks were ruined. Enhancing is one thing......
I hated it. Everything sounds so boomy and cranked and trying to modernize it.
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Great list!
I agree about the remixes on Sonic Boom - I was shocked at how much I enjoyed them! Though they do make it really obvious how much damage Paul's voice has taken over the years, he was still in relatively good shape so it's not like he messed them up or anything.
Not like when I saw them live and he tried to sing Crazy Nights. :lol
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Great list, Stad! I was pleasantly surprised to see Creatures at number 2. It's such an underrated album.
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Fun story: My brother is the biggest KISS fan I personally know (well, he's 6'9" and 320 lbs, so he's the biggest ANYTHING I know, lol), and has been for years and years and years.
When they had their first Farewell (Reunion?) tour in the 90s, when they were wearing their paint and costumes again for the first time in forever, with the original band, he was ecstatic. He decided to go see them live.
He took our parents with him. My 50-something parents who listened to country music and the Beach Boys. When he told me his plan, I lol'd hard.
They had the time of their fucking lives.
Ted Nugent opened up, complete with loincloth and a flaming arrow shot into an exploding guitar. And then of course, KISS put on a great show, with loud music, fire, blood, the whole nine yards.
I wish I had gotten to go to that with them. But I'm glad that they were able to experience that.
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That's fantastic! I remember my very first show with Cold Gin, in my hometown, my parents and siblings were there. My *grandmother* was there. :lol
I'm listening to Paul's solo album today. I'll skip Hold Me Touch Me, but I'm pretty sure that from now on, I'll be skipping Ain't Quite Right also. Snoozer. Take Me Away (Together as One) is interesting, as it's a plodder in the beginning and the verses then has great choruses and a good solo. Then the outro? DAMN. Great shit.
All that said, It's Alright has always been my favorite from this album.
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Even with Paul's voice, I would always recommend someone seeing them at least once. I've seen over 400 shows in my life, and good one's too (Maiden, with the big production, Rush, Crue...) and Kiss blows them all away. You haven't really lived musically until your standing there, covered in sweat, spitting confetti out of your mouth and pulling it out of your hair and beer, screaming "I wanna rawk and roll all ni-i-ite... and pahty ev-a-ree day!" at the top of your lungs while the stage just EXPLODES.
I'll try to post a picture of the 2014 tour if I can figure out how.
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I was there in Oct 2015 in Melbourne (same venue as the Aus Open tennis)
(https://www.fullthrottlerock.net/KISS%20Review%20091015.jpg)
(https://mopt.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/EventPage_1.jpg)
(https://mopt.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/EventPage_22.jpg)
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That's a goddam rock show.
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If a giant metallic spider shooting flames isn't one hell of a rock show, it would make a hell of a Godzilla movie.
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I've seen them on every UK tour since I've been old enough to go, and they've never disappointed, even with Paul's vocal issues last time around.
Got to take my kids if they come around again.
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That's a goddam rock show.
Fuck yeah.
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We've come so far.
I still remember the first time I saw this cover:
(https://sordc.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Kiss-Alive.jpg)
I thought it was fucking unreal. Smoke, lights, makeup and costumes... incredible! How you could you ever top that?
Of course, in 1975, this was about as far as you could take it, except maybe an Alice Cooper show. But that's full-on theatrical. For straight-up rock and roll, this was it.
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e9/ee/18/e9ee18d2d65928da7522550db8fcbe15.jpg)
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That last photo is unreal. Dear Lord...
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See it live. You can literally feel the heat from the stage.
My kid posted a picture of the finale during RnRAN on Instagram and the caption was "Greatest night of my life!"
I thought, "my work is done here".
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Outstanding.
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See it live. You can literally feel the heat from the stage.
Dude, I was sitting quite far away in the second elevation when I saw KISS in 2004, and when those pyros went off, it was very warm. I remember thinking at the time that it must have been hotter than hell on the stage.
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When I went to see them on the reunion tour, I had a sty on my eye. when the flames went off my sty popped out :biggrin:
Not sure why, but it happened.
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When I saw them on the Sonic Boom tour, they played an outdoor arena and did their usual thing, which was awesome. :metal
But the thing that really astonished me actually happened after they had walked off the stage - they had a fireworks show, shooting rocket after rocket in the air that continued long after we've even left the arena. It felt like leaving a circus show, not a rock show. And I wondered how they even got the permission to do that. :lol
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When I saw them a few years ago, their pyro accidently caused a fire on stage. The show was delayed a bit but the band ad-libbed and started playing Firehouse, which wasn't in the setlist. So that was pretty cool
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Listening to COTN today. Good GOD, what a f*cking great album. I'm also fairly comfortable in saying that I think ILIL is the weakest song on the album, which is saying a lot, because despite having heard it 1000000000000000 times, it's still not a bad song.
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Listening to COTN today. Good GOD, what a f*cking great album. I'm also fairly comfortable in saying that I think ILIL is the weakest song on the album, which is saying a lot, because despite having heard it 1000000000000000 times, it's still not a bad song.
I would agree with you on ILIL. I've heard it way too much. And, honestly, I don't understand why that song has lasted as long as it has in the live set. Just because it's a later era Gene highlight? It has such a plodding, lifeless feel to it (other than Eric's bombastic drums).
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It's unquestionably one of the single most boring Kiss songs to play on the guitar.
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It's unquestionably one of the single most boring Kiss songs to play on the guitar.
Especially the solo! Vinnie must've been like "Where are all my thirty-second and sixty-fourth note runs?!? I can't believe I co-wrote this song!"
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I always wondered why the video showed Paul playing the solo.
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I always wondered why the video showed Paul playing the solo.
Ace probably didn't want to "play" a guitar solo written and played by someone else in the video.
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Especially one that lifeless.
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Favorite Vinnie Vincent co-write? Mine would be either "Unholy" or "A Million To One".
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Not For The Innocent
Killer
I Just Wanna (this my contradict what I wrote in the list, but there are "Vinnie-isms" that I kinda like in this, even if I don't care for the whole song.)
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This thread has now officially cost me money!
For about $20, from Amazon, I've bought used versions of Sonic Boom and Monster, along with a remastered version of Unmasked (which I didn't have on CD) and the Amazon mp3s of the four Killers tunes. I actually have the vinyl upstairs.
Sonic Boom apparently comes with rerecordings and a DVD. Nice. Not sure why they rerecorded some of what they did. I would've definitely rather them do something a little more obscure like an updated version of The Oath.
Amazon lists most of the Remasters at $4.99!
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Unholy
I Just Wanna
Killer
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I Just Wanna
I assume you're a fan of "Summertime Blues"? ;D
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Amazingly, not really. Funny how well it works though. I'm surprised that nobody has thought to do a mashup of the two yet.
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Amazingly, not really. Funny how well it works though. I'm surprised that nobody has thought to do a mashup of the two yet.
I'd like to hear KISS's "Never Enough" mashed up with Poison's "Nothin' But A Good Time".
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Amazingly, not really. Funny how well it works though. I'm surprised that nobody has thought to do a mashup of the two yet.
I'd like to hear KISS's "Never Enough" mashed up with Poison's "Nothin' But A Good Time".
With that being a Deuce ripoff, the circle has become complete. :lol
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Was listening to Outta This World and I couldn't help but think of Mississippi Queen.
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And, I can't believe how badly Buckcherry's "Lit Up" rips off "Shock Me".
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:metal
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And while we are making comparisons, the beginning of Yes I Know reminds me to the beginning of Nothin' To Lose and Stand reminds me of the beginning od Rock And Roll Damnation.
Also, halfway through my first listen to Sonic Boom, and it is nowhere near Monster's caliber.
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Most like SB over Monster. I like both with SB just a bit more.
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Most like SB over Monster.
Really?? I don't think it's even close.
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At least when Monster came out most did. I still spin both.
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You could make one very good album out of both, but if I want to listen to KISS I'm not reaching for either of them too often.
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I could barely get through Monster honestly. Sonic Boom is at least very solid throughout, with some great songs.
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I could barely get through Monster honestly. Sonic Boom is at least very solid throughout, with some great songs.
Total opposite for me.
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Amazingly, not really. Funny how well it works though. I'm surprised that nobody has thought to do a mashup of the two yet.
I'd like to hear KISS's "Never Enough" mashed up with Poison's "Nothin' But A Good Time".
With that being a Deuce ripoff, the circle has become complete. :lol
:lol
Most like SB over Monster. I like both with SB just a bit more.
That. Monster is still pretty good, but it's a regurgitated Sonic Boom. At least Sonic Boom regurgitates older, better KISS songs. :lol
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I could barely get through Monster honestly. Sonic Boom is at least very solid throughout, with some great songs.
Total opposite for me.
I totally agree with you. IMO, Monster is light years ahead of SB. The main difference is there are actually quality Gene songs.
But, to someone else's point... Both albums are pretty identical stylistically - Strong Paul opening song, 4-5 Paul songs total, 4 Gene songs total, 1 Tommy/Ace space song, 1 Eric "All for the" song, 1 Paul/Gene song.
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Favorite Vinnie Vincent co-write? Mine would be either "Unholy" or "A Million To One".
1. A Million To One
2. Not For The Innocent
3. Unholy
4. Killer
5. I Just Wanna
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You could make one very good album out of both, but if I want to listen to KISS I'm not reaching for either of them too often.
I agree 100% with this. I find both to be extremely mediocre (Sonic Boom less so). My Sonic Monster would be...
1. Modern Day Delilah
2. Russian Roulette
3. Shout Mercy
4. Outta This Word
5. (Yes I Know) Noboby's Perfect
6. Stand
7. Wall Of Sound
8. Long Way Down
9. Freak
10. Say Yeah
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I find it funny that 3 of the songs Gene brought to the table for SB and Monster had titles from his '84-'85 demos. He truly is the king of recycling song ideas.
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So I'm up to All For The Glory and it's really the only song off of SB that I didn't think sucked. I actually like it. Is that Eric singing?
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So I'm up to All For The Glory and it's really the only song off of SB that I didn't think sucked. I actually like it. Is that Eric singing?
Yep, that's Eric singing
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So I'm up to All For The Glory and it's really the only song off of SB that I didn't think sucked. I actually like it. Is that Eric singing?
Yep. I love his voice. The funniest bit is in the bridge section when Eric and Paul are doing a harmony, and Paul slowly takes over the mix. :lol
And wtf? Nothing on SB sucks, except Say Yeah.
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I found all the Eric/Tommy songs on SB and M sucked.
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I found all the Eric/Tommy songs on SB and M sucked.
I have a soft spot for Outta This World (must be the Rocket Ride vibe in the lyrics combined with the outro. The other Eric/Tommy songs are terrible.
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I found all the Eric/Tommy songs on SB and M sucked.
I have a soft spot for Outta This World (must be the Rocket Ride vibe in the lyrics combined with the outro. The other Eric/Tommy songs are terrible.
Totally respecting everyone's right to like (or not) what they like, but I personally think "terrible" is a little strong. Certainly they are stronger than "I Just Found My Way" (back to you, babe!). Or "Hooligan" (won't go to school, again!).
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Oh whoa no Stadler. :lol
I kid. I'm with you. they are just average.
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whoa no
This is a KISS thread - "Whoa yeah!" is the way to go :metal
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Well all right.......
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So I'm up to All For The Glory and it's really the only song off of SB that I didn't think sucked. I actually like it. Is that Eric singing?
Yep. I love his voice. The funniest bit is in the bridge section when Eric and Paul are doing a harmony, and Paul slowly takes over the mix. :lol
And wtf? Nothing on SB sucks, except Say Yeah.
What? Say Yeah is the only song I really like on SB! :lol
So SB was better, though not great, on the second listen. But I still don't feel it's in Monster's class. I LOVE All For The Glory. I do like Say Yeah a lot, and Yes I Know also stood out a bit.
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I found all the Eric/Tommy songs on SB and M sucked.
I have a soft spot for Outta This World (must be the Rocket Ride vibe in the lyrics combined with the outro. The other Eric/Tommy songs are terrible.
Totally respecting everyone's right to like (or not) what they like, but I personally think "terrible" is a little strong. Certainly they are stronger than "I Just Found My Way" (back to you, babe!). Or "Hooligan" (won't go to school, again!).
I finally found my way may be the worst song in the KISS Catalog (and that's saying something). Hooligan gets a pass because of Ace's killer solo (see Houston '77 for additional proof).
It's weird because as much as I loathe When Lightning Strikes, I'm in the opposite direction for Outta This World. Eric's songs to me seem forced and contrived (and I'm a huge ES fan going back to the Badlands days).
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I'm the opposite. I feel like the Tommy songs are forced and contrived. I do like Outta This World. Total Ace vibe.
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I'm the opposite. I feel like the Tommy songs are forced and contrived. I do like Outta This World. Total Ace vibe.
Just curious...what are your standout Monster tracks? For some reason, that album doesn't sit well with me. I love Shout Mercy, and Long Way Down is one of the more musically ambitious tracks in the catalog but the rest of it is just missing something for me. For example, I think Wall Of Sound could be an all time Gene classic but it's just underdeveloped. The band boasted about Back To the Stone Age but to me it's throwaway filler, same for The Devil Is Me (sounds like a spruced up Family jewels theme song). Eat Your Heart Out is just a weak song, same for the token Eric song All For The Love of R&R (dig the Stones vibe but it just doesn't work for me). The production is so harsh that I find it tedious to listen to. To me it's just there...a 6 or 6.5 out of 10 at best.
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I'm the opposite. I feel like the Tommy songs are forced and contrived. I do like Outta This World. Total Ace vibe.
Just curious...what are your standout Monster tracks? For some reason, that album doesn't sit well with me. I love Shout Mercy, and Long Way Down is one of the more musically ambitious tracks in the catalog but the rest of it is just missing something for me. For example, I think Wall Of Sound could be an all time Gene classic but it's just underdeveloped. The band boasted about Back To the Stone Age but to me it's throwaway filler, same for The Devil Is Me (sounds like a spruced up Family jewels theme song). Eat Your Heart Out is just a weak song, same for the token Eric song All For The Love of R&R (dig the Stones vibe but it just doesn't work for me). The production is so harsh that I find it tedious to listen to. To me it's just there...a 6 or 6.5 out of 10 at best.
Even though I am an Old School Kiss fan, I am literally hearing both albums for the first time in the past week or so. I literally had no interest in either TBH. After keeping up with this thread, it put me in a Kiss mode. I figured I'd check the albums on Spotify and listened to Monster. I found it much stronger than I expected. I immediately bought both, SB blindly.
So to answer your question..
I love H or H. It reminds me of the great 80's Paul openers like I've Had Enough, King Of The Mountain, etc.. I actually think it's the strongest song from both albums.
I also like Freak a lot. And I like the Tommy/Eric songs.
I'm with you on The Devil Is Me, and there is something missing in Wall Of Sound. You mention Eat Your Heart Out as weak. It's funny you say that because whenever someone does a KISS album ranking, there's usually one album where you go..WTF?? For me, that album is Asylum. And EYHO has an Asylum feel. My guess is that you rate that album pretty low, as do most.. But I like it a lot.
I feel like Monster loses a little steam at the end.
SB has some brutally awful songs, like Russian Roulette, and Hot And Cold. I'm not saying Monster is a great KISS album. I'm just saying it's better than I expected and I like it better than SB. I'm still taking 15-20 albums before Monster, trust me.
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I like Asylum more than most but truthfully, I like Gene's songs (esp Any Way You Slice It and Trial By Fire...Secretly Cruel too) more than Paul's which for me is an anomaly on the non-makeup albums. I got it for Christmas in 1985 and right out of the gate I didn't care for King Of The Mountain, I'm Alive, or Uh! All Night. Who Wants To Be Lonely and Tears are Falling are killer and probably lift the album higher than it S/B.
Whoah...I love Russian Roulette but totally agree about Hot & Cold. My expectations were low for SB and were exceeded, but higher for Monster and I was let down. Both are still lower-tier KISS albums for me.
I'm in the process of ranking Stadler's list after a catalog listen through. I won't be as detailed as I can talk about KISS ad nauseam...I'll just list them in order.
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whoa no
This is a KISS thread - "Whoa yeah!" is the way to go :metal
NERD ALERT: "Whoa no" counts though; a call-and-response of that is in the pre-chorus of "Got Love For Sale".
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Bingo! :lol
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I like Asylum more than most but truthfully, I like Gene's songs (esp Any Way You Slice It and Trial By Fire...Secretly Cruel too) more than Paul's which for me is an anomaly on the non-makeup albums. I got it for Christmas in 1985 and right out of the gate I didn't care for King Of The Mountain, I'm Alive, or Uh! All Night. Who Wants To Be Lonely and Tears are Falling are killer and probably lift the album higher than it S/B.
Whoah...I love Russian Roulette but totally agree about Hot & Cold. My expectations were low for SB and were exceeded, but higher for Monster and I was let down. Both are still lower-tier KISS albums for me.
I'm in the process of ranking Stadler's list after a catalog listen through. I won't be as detailed as I can talk about KISS ad nauseam...I'll just list them in order.
Nice on the Asylum love. I agree with you about Gene's songs. I am not a Gene guy, but Asylum, to me, is the best "Gene Songs" album of the 80's.
Though I do skip Radar For Love every time and Tears Are Falling half the time. I love King Of The Mountain though. Love how they started the album with a drum solo! :metal
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SB has some brutally awful songs, like Russian Roulette, and Hot And Cold.
They're two of the best, you nitwit! :lol
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Do the songs come mislabeled in Australia?? ;D
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I think your opinions are mislabeled. :getoffmylawn:
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I think your opinions are mislabeled. :getoffmylawn:
Woah no..
(wouldn't be the first time :lol)
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Don't worry Blob, an American agrees with you.
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Even though I like Monster better than SB, I have to say it has one of their most cringe-worthy songs in "Take Me Down Below". IMO, that song and "Read My Body" are probably the 2 worst songs they've put out since the 80's.
NERD ALERT: "Whoa no" counts though; a call-and-response of that is in the pre-chorus of "Got Love For Sale".
NICE!!!
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I don't disagree about Take Me Down Below. And as a general statement, a lot of KISS' sexual lyrics were cringe worthy in the 80's when the band was still relatively young. Now, they're just gross! :lol
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I don't disagree about Take Me Down Below. And as a general statement, a lot of KISS' sexual lyrics were cringe worthy in the 80's when the band was still relatively young. Now, they're just gross! :lol
That's just it; you can't void Kiss for cringe-worthy, that's half the catalogue. But very rarely did they veer into gross (even Christine Sixteen isn't really "gross") but "Take Me Down Below" I think crosses the line.
I stand by my list; SB is better than Monster, but neither outright suck.
"Nitwit" is a great word.
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I must have my ears on backwards. :lol
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I must have my ears on backwards. :lol
Or you're talking out of...... ;D
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I must have my ears on backwards. :lol
Or you're talking out of...... ;D
Shit, I on a good night, I can do half the alphabet!
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:lol
I can sing God Of Thunder.
Hey wait a.....
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And you guys reckon KISS' lyrics are gross ;D
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:rollin
Tim said that. Lol
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:rollin
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/56848735.jpg)
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Even though I like Monster better than SB, I have to say it has one of their most cringe-worthy songs in "Take Me Down Below". IMO, that song and "Read My Body" are probably the 2 worst songs they've put out since the 80's.
NERD ALERT: "Whoa no" counts though; a call-and-response of that is in the pre-chorus of "Got Love For Sale".
NICE!!!
I had HitS on in the car the other day and was prepared to give RMB a chance - only when it came to it I hadn't even bothered ripping it! :biggrin:
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I listened to HiTS the other day. I have to say that it is a Bottom 5 album for me. Maybe Bottom 3. I forgot how much it sucked.
Always have loved You Love Me To Hate You though. It was such an awesome tour too. When they seemed to really embrace the older stuff again.
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I listened to HiTS the other day. I have to say that it is a Bottom 5 album for me. Maybe Bottom 3. I forgot how much it sucked.
Always have loved You Love Me To Hate You though. It was such an awesome tour too. When they seemed to really embrace the older stuff again.
Totally agree with the tour. When they opened with "I Stole Your Love", I totally freaked! And, to have "Calling Dr. Love" and "God of Thunder" back in the set? It was awesome! Back in the day when concert sets were still a complete surprise.
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My first time seeing KISS was the Asylum tour, and I remember being extremely disappointed in the length of the show and the limited setlist. The Crazy Nights tour wasn't much different, but the HiTS tour seemed like a lot more songs and a much better stage. The whole thing was different.
I did see the Paul solo tour in Hartford in '89, and I had a feeling after that that KISS was going to go a little more Old School on the next tour, especially in the setlist. Seemed like Paul was really embracing it.
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My first time seeing KISS was the Asylum tour, and I remember being extremely disappointed in the length of the show and the limited setlist. The Crazy Nights tour wasn't much different, but the HiTS tour seemed like a lot more songs and a much better stage. The whole thing was different.
I did see the Paul solo tour in Hartford in '89, and I had a feeling after that that KISS was going to go a little more Old School on the next tour, especially in the setlist. Seemed like Paul was really embracing it.
The Asylum tour was not only my first time seeing KISS but my first concert... at Madison Square Garden! So, the length of the setlist was overlooked by my 12-year old mind being blown by the overall experience. Looking back the Asylum and CN sets and stages were pretty weak. HITS was a huge step forward.
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During that period they seemed to play the same older songs. I was glad during the HITS tour they pulled out some older gems.
I was lucky enough to have my dad take me to the Dynasty tour. My next time seeing them was Animalize with Queensryche opening. That show was amazing.
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During that period they seemed to play the same older songs.
It wasn't just that. They played the same newer songs too.
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I'm a baby - my first show was Revenge :) Although I had been a fan since the age of 6yo. Not a huge show in terms of pyro etc......but we had the "Take It Off" girls :eyebrows:
I vividly recall noting how hard Singer was hitting the drums too - never realised he was so good until I saw that gig.
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I'm a baby - my first show was Revenge :) Although I had been a fan since the age of 6yo. Not a huge show in terms of pyro etc......but we had the "Take It Off" girls :eyebrows:
I vividly recall noting how hard Singer was hitting the drums too - never realised he was so good until I saw that gig.
For whatever reason, I don't remember the Roanoke VA show having the TIO girls. It was my one and only general admission KISS show and I managed to get a Gene pick. :metal That tour marked the end of them playing everything all metal'd up in double-time.
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I was at the Roanoke, VA Revenge show. My first concert was at the Roanoke Civic Center for the HITS tour, 7/11/90.
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One of my favorite articles about the band...
https://grantland.com/features/chuck-klosterman-kiss-hall-of-fame/ (https://grantland.com/features/chuck-klosterman-kiss-hall-of-fame/)
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I was at the Roanoke, VA Revenge show. My first concert was at the Roanoke Civic Center for the HITS tour, 7/11/90.
Nice! Were Faster Pussycat and Trixter the openers for that Revenge show? My memory's a bit foggy.
I went to college at James Madison University and went to Roanoke for a few shows - KISS, Metallica on the Black Album tour, VH for For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge and Aerosmith for Get A Grip. The first 2 mentioned were awesome. VH was okay. Aero was a yawner.
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Indeed, Faster Pussycat and Trixter. Both of whom I've seen live in the last few years.
I was there for the VH Carnal Knowledge show also. 2/26/92. Baby Animals was the opener and I didn't care for them at all. I lived in Salem, so the RCC was just up the street for me, almost.
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I was there for the VH Carnal Knowledge show also. 2/26/92. Baby Animals was the opener and I didn't care for them at all. I lived in Salem, so the RCC was just up the street for me, almost.
My main complaint about the VH show was the piped-in keyboards on that tour. It's crazy how much of that album they played on that tour. Only 4 other Sammy-era songs played.
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I was at the Roanoke, VA Revenge show. My first concert was at the Roanoke Civic Center for the HITS tour, 7/11/90.
Nice! Were Faster Pussycat and Trixter the openers for that Revenge show? My memory's a bit foggy.
I went to college at James Madison University and went to Roanoke for a few shows - KISS, Metallica on the Black Album tour, VH for For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge and Aerosmith for Get A Grip. The first 2 mentioned were awesome. VH was okay. Aero was a yawner.
In the UK I think it was Danger Danger. They were excellent.
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On the HITS tour, we got Danger Danger and Slaughter. I've also seen both of them in the last few years as well. Both still sound great!
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On the HITS tour, we got Danger Danger and Slaughter. I've also seen both of them in the last few years as well. Both still sound great!
We had Little Caesar and Slaughter. I would've rather DD over LC.
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^^^ I used to work for GE Industrial, who had a big manufacturing plant in Salem and spent a lot of time there. Always fun flying into the valley. :)
For my "non-makeup shows" (I only saw Lick it Up and Animalize) I got Accept and Queensryche. The former was okay (I missed half of it because of the meet and greet I already talked about) and the latter was AWESOME. I thought the 'Ryche was SO GOOD, even if Geoff looked like a total douche at that point.
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^^^ I used to work for GE Industrial, who had a big manufacturing plant in Salem and spent a lot of time there. Always fun flying into the valley. :)
Located (appropriately, enough) on Electric Road. I lived in Salem from '84 to '97.
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For my "non-makeup shows" (I only saw Lick it Up and Animalize) I got Accept and Queensryche. The former was okay (I missed half of it because of the meet and greet I already talked about) and the latter was AWESOME. I thought the 'Ryche was SO GOOD, even if Geoff looked like a total douche at that point.
My non-makeup openers were okay, I suppose - Black and Blue, Ted Nugent, Blue Oyster Cult and then Little Caesar, Slaughter, Faster Pussycat and Trixter.
Seeing QR back then would've been awesome. I didn't see them until they opened for Def Leppard on the Hysteria tour.
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Queensryche, Winger, Slaughter are the only openers I can remember.
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Openers I've seen:
Little Caesar
Slaughter
Faster Pussycat
Trixter
311
Deftones
Econoline Crush
Skid Row
Ted Nugent
Z02
Poison
Buckcherry
Motley Crue
Def Leppard
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311 opened for them? Wow! An odd pairing but very cool!
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311 opened for them? Wow! An odd pairing but very cool!
7/27/96 at Madison Square Garden. I had no idea who they were as I was in the bathroom painting up like Gene Simmons.
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I don't remember who opened the Revenge and '96 shows.
For the Revenge club tour it was Shooting Gallery, an LA band that I think only made one album. They featured Hanoi Rocks guitarist Andy McCoy. They were amazing. One of the Top 5 openers I've ever seen.
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311 opened for them? Wow! An odd pairing but very cool!
7/27/96 at Madison Square Garden. I had no idea who they were as I was in the bathroom painting up like Gene Simmons.
They had some pretty weak opening bands on that Alive/Worldwide tour. I had D-Generation on 7/25/96 at the Garden. I was really hoping for The Nixons. But, they were 7/28/96.
Anyone see them with Ozone Monday? Skid Row's first attempt without Sebastian.
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311 opened for them? Wow! An odd pairing but very cool!
7/27/96 at Madison Square Garden. I had no idea who they were as I was in the bathroom painting up like Gene Simmons.
They had some pretty weak opening bands on that Alive/Worldwide tour. I had D-Generation on 7/25/96 at the Garden. I was really hoping for The Nixons. But, they were 7/28/96.
Anyone see them with Ozone Monday? Skid Row's first attempt without Sebastian.
That was, if I recall, a four night stand. Who opened each of the shows? I was at the show on the 26th. The show on the 27th was on a bonus DVD in the Kissology III set. I don't remember who opened (but then again, we were late getting down from Connecticut, so I think I missed them anyway.
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That was, if I recall, a four night stand. Who opened each of the shows? I was at the show on the 26th. The show on the 27th was on a bonus DVD in the Kissology III set. I don't remember who opened (but then again, we were late getting down from Connecticut, so I think I missed them anyway.
25 - D-Generation
26 - CIV (who?!?)
27 - 311
28 - The Nixons
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Just picked up Gene's KISS And Make Up from the library. Enjoying it!
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Just picked up Gene's KISS And Make Up from the library. Enjoying it!
Gene's wasn't bad.
Paul's was the best of the 4...Peter's dished the most dirt...Ace's was ok, but kind of a letdown TBH.
I'd recommend KISS and Sell by CK Lendt. He was an insider who joined in '76 (I believe) and was there until the wheels fell off in the mid 80's.
Nothin' To Lose by Ken Sharp is also great and really chronicles the early days.
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The start of their reunion tour back in '96. Where else? Detroit Rock City.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3l918iKkN4
Had a friend who was a roadie for this show. I should have tagged along to Michigan and Trumbell for the fun.
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Just picked up Gene's KISS And Make Up from the library. Enjoying it!
Gene's wasn't bad.
Paul's was the best of the 4...Peter's dished the most dirt...Ace's was ok, but kind of a letdown TBH.
I'd recommend KISS and Sell by CK Lendt. He was an insider who joined in '76 (I believe) and was there until the wheels fell off in the mid 80's.
Nothin' To Lose by Ken Sharp is also great and really chronicles the early days.
I'm reading NTL at the moment. Not bad. I wanted to punch Peter whilst reading his. Ace is writing another I believe.
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I've been listening to Creatures of the night the last several days. You guys were right, it really is a great album. :metal
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I literally read the Gene book in a day. Great read!
He was a lot nicer to Eric than Paul was. Although Paul expressed regret about the handling of Eric at the end, he painted him as an insecure guy.
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Peter dished dirt, but common wisdom is that most of it wasn't exactly as described. :)
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So let's talk about the Kiss My Ass album. I remember when it first came out, my friend and I, being big into Kiss, expected this album of heavy hitting, hard rocking Kiss covers, given the artists that were participating. Imagine our surprise when we got done listening to it at what a departure it was from what we expected. The only song on the album that was what you would expect was Anthrax' cover of She, which kicked ass. I really wasn't all that amused with the covers, at the time. I thought Toad The Wet Sprocket's cover of Rock and Roll All Nite was straight up blasphemous shit and that they should all look into new careers at the Department of Transportation or something. Anything but musicians. I also thought that the guy from Mighty Mighty Bosstones had the stupidest singing voice I'd ever heard. Extreme pulled out a very odd funky rendition of Strutter, despite being one of the bands I expected to rock the hell out of it. Gin Blossoms came off REALLY good (I don't usually... well some times..), Lemonheads came off pretty decent. Hell, despite hating country, I even liked Garth's rendition of Hard Luck Woman.
I hadn't been listening to Kiss as long (at the time) as most Kiss fans I knew had. I only started getting into them around the time of the release of Hot in the Shade. So when I heard some of these renditions, it was hard for me to accept them, given my relatively newfound love and devotion to the originals. So I listened to most of it again today and found that for the covers I may not have cared for to begin with, I like them better now than I did when it was released. I can even stomach TTWS's cover of RARAN. I really like the Bosstone's cover of Detroit Rock City, with the horn instrumentation. It's really pretty damn cool, but that singer still grates on my nerves. The Gin Blossoms' cover of C16 is still fantastic. Lenny's cover of Deuce still bores the hell out of me. The instrumentation on Goin' Blind seems a little muddy-ish to me, but that might just be how the band sounds, I am not familiar with anything else from them. There is a GREAT guitar solo on that track and it's a Hotter than Hell deep cut, so I like it for that alone. :lol
So my faves from the album are She, Christine Sixteen, and Plaster Caster. I guess that makes sense, as those are probably the most straight ahead renditions.
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Other than Anthrax, I don't even remember sampling anything else from that album. I looked at the list of artists and yawned.
Anthrax also covered Love Her All I Can.
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They also cover Parasite. Every time Anthrax covers a Kiss song, it is clean out of the fucking ballpark.
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I dig the Extreme version and Gary has that spot on line sounds just like Paul Stanley.
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Yeah, kinda. It came off a little smarmy and loungy for me.
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They also cover Parasite. Every time Anthrax covers a Kiss song, it is clean out of the fucking ballpark.
Yes, Parasite too. I agree.
sounds just like Paul Stanley.
I assume you've heard Fred Toucher do Paul right? I freaking crack up hysterically every time I hear him.
This is the only clip I could find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc-YxdjVXnI
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I love his Paul Stanley rants. :lol
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I assume you've heard Fred Toucher do Paul right? I freaking crack up hysterically every time I hear him.
This is the only clip I could find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc-YxdjVXnI
"Ah luv the big BOOBIES!"
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You just can't do the Paul "shimmy" when you do his voice. Boy, you get a few looks. :lol
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Hey, if "we need a friggin' break, Stads" is the right answer, so be it, I can take it, but anyone interested in another discography? I really enjoyed that, particularly revisiting some of the albums I haven't heard in a while.
I figure a band with about 15 albums. Not sure who I would do; thinking maybe Cheap Trick (CT has 17, plus Found All The Parts)? AC/DC? Sabbath (19)? Ozzy solo (11)? Purple? Rainbow?
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VH = 12
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I'm down for most of these suggestions, although I'd rather a list in chronological order than by ranking.
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I second that. For those of us not well versed in a band's entire catalog, going through the albums by ranking is pretty similar to just jumping randomly around. I was a big KISS fan early on, but have strayed, and I was really looking forward to a sense of the evolution of the band's sound and attitudes along with the personnel changes and changes in the musical landscape, and we really didn't get that here.
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It's funny. Cheap Trick is one of those bands that, for whatever reason, I've never had a great appreciation for. I know tons of people love them (especially older KISS fans). To me, they've always been just "meh".
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Here's everything chronologically. Counting the box sets, there's 34 items to discuss. You can break it out by the originals, the transition years, the non-makeup years, the Alives & Compilations, and finally present day. Here's what we have (did I miss anything)...what's the best way to do this?
Kiss
Hotter Than Hell
Dressed To Kill
Alive
Destroyer
Rock & Roll Over
Love Gun
Alive II
Double Platinum
Ace Frehley
Paul Stanley
Gene Simmons
Peter Criss
Dynasty
Unmasked
Music From The Elder
Killers
Creatures of the Night
Lick It Up
Animalize
Asylum
Crazy Nights
Smashes Thrashes & Hits
Hot In The Shade
Revenge
Alive III
Kiss My Ass
MTV Unplugged
Carnival of Souls
Psycho Circus
The Box Set
KISS Symphony: Alive IV
KISS Alive Box Set
Sonic Boom
Monster
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I'm really tempted to do a "Y&T Discography - My Life As a Y&T Fan" thread. But no one would care. :'(
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Here's everything chronologically. Counting the box sets, there's 34 items to discuss. You can break it out by the originals, the transition years, the non-makeup years, the Alives & Compilations, and finally present day. Here's what we have (did I miss anything)...what's the best way to do this?
Kiss
Hotter Than Hell
Dressed To Kill
Alive
Destroyer
Rock & Roll Over
Love Gun
Alive II
Double Platinum
Ace Frehley
Paul Stanley
Gene Simmons
Peter Criss
Dynasty
Unmasked
Music From The Elder
Killers
Creatures of the Night
Lick It Up
Animalize
Asylum
Crazy Nights
Smashes Thrashes & Hits
Hot In The Shade
Revenge
Alive III
Kiss My Ass
Carnival of Souls
Psycho Circus
The Box Set
KISS Symphony: Alive IV
KISS Alive Box Set
Sonic Boom
Monster
KISS Unplugged is the only thing missing I can think of at first glance.
Considering KISS isn't really a part of the KISS My Ass, it would probably be best to leave it out. And, the Alive boxset is just a collection of the various Alive releases, right?
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KISS Unplugged is the only thing missing I can think of at first glance.
Considering KISS isn't really a part of the KISS My Ass, it would probably be best to leave it out. And, the Alive boxset is just a collection of the various Alive releases, right?
I added the MTV Unplugged. How did I forget such a monumental moment in KISStory? The boxset contains the Millennium Concert from Vancouver 12/31/99.
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Considering KISS isn't really a part of the KISS My Ass, it would probably be best to leave it out. And, the Alive boxset is just a collection of the various Alive releases, right?
It also includes a live show from the Psycho Circus tour that I think was going to be Alive IV, but then wasn't released, so that's the only place to get that disc as far as I'm aware.
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I think that list is excellent.
I would be happy to do things in chronological order. I just went with the ranking because I didn't know better. I'm not writing this for my health, it's to entertain. I can always give a ranking as well on the side (or after).
Your call. But it's fun for me to write this stuff and as I said, it's cool to revisit albums I haven't heard from in a while.
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I'm really tempted to do a "Y&T Discography - My Life As a Y&T Fan" thread. But no one would care. :'(
Hey I'd be with ya :biggrin:
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So let's talk about the Kiss My Ass album. I remember when it first came out, my friend and I, being big into Kiss, expected this album of heavy hitting, hard rocking Kiss covers, given the artists that were participating. Imagine our surprise when we got done listening to it at what a departure it was from what we expected. The only song on the album that was what you would expect was Anthrax' cover of She, which kicked ass. I really wasn't all that amused with the covers, at the time. I thought Toad The Wet Sprocket's cover of Rock and Roll All Nite was straight up blasphemous shit and that they should all look into new careers at the Department of Transportation or something. Anything but musicians. I also thought that the guy from Mighty Mighty Bosstones had the stupidest singing voice I'd ever heard. Extreme pulled out a very odd funky rendition of Strutter, despite being one of the bands I expected to rock the hell out of it. Gin Blossoms came off REALLY good (I don't usually... well some times..), Lemonheads came off pretty decent. Hell, despite hating country, I even liked Garth's rendition of Hard Luck Woman.
I hadn't been listening to Kiss as long (at the time) as most Kiss fans I knew had. I only started getting into them around the time of the release of Hot in the Shade. So when I heard some of these renditions, it was hard for me to accept them, given my relatively newfound love and devotion to the originals. So I listened to most of it again today and found that for the covers I may not have cared for to begin with, I like them better now than I did when it was released. I can even stomach TTWS's cover of RARAN. I really like the Bosstone's cover of Detroit Rock City, with the horn instrumentation. It's really pretty damn cool, but that singer still grates on my nerves. The Gin Blossoms' cover of C16 is still fantastic. Lenny's cover of Deuce still bores the hell out of me. The instrumentation on Goin' Blind seems a little muddy-ish to me, but that might just be how the band sounds, I am not familiar with anything else from them. There is a GREAT guitar solo on that track and it's a Hotter than Hell deep cut, so I like it for that alone. :lol
So my faves from the album are She, Christine Sixteen, and Plaster Caster. I guess that makes sense, as those are probably the most straight ahead renditions.
Pretty awful album. The only track I would say I liked was Yoshiki's orchestral version of Black Diamond. And the Anthrax and Garth Brooks were good too.
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I'm really tempted to do a "Y&T Discography - My Life As a Y&T Fan" thread. But no one would care. :'(
Hey I'd be with ya :biggrin:
:lol Yeah, we'd have a SMALL handful. I wouldn't mind doing it, but it would be a chore to keep the interest of the few. Problem is, they have a LOT of material. But most consider their golden age to have been in the '80s and don't know or care about any of the other material. So whether I go chronologically or by rank, once we get past the '80s material, I would lose a good chunk of an already very small audience. I dunno. I might do it just for fun anyway.
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I'm really tempted to do a "Y&T Discography - My Life As a Y&T Fan" thread. But no one would care. :'(
Hey I'd be with ya :biggrin:
:lol Yeah, we'd have a SMALL handful. I wouldn't mind doing it, but it would be a chore to keep the interest of the few. Problem is, they have a LOT of material. But most consider their golden age to have been in the '80s and don't know or care about any of the other material. So whether I go chronologically or by rank, once we get past the '80s material, I would lose a good chunk of an already very small audience. I dunno. I might do it just for fun anyway.
They're one of those bands I've always been curious about but never really looked into. So, I'd definitely check it out. Dave Meniketti did a great podcast with Dean Delray last summer. It was like 2 hours of him going over the band's history. If you're a fan of the band, I'd recommend looking for it.
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I'm really tempted to do a "Y&T Discography - My Life As a Y&T Fan" thread. But no one would care. :'(
Hey I'd be with ya :biggrin:
:lol Yeah, we'd have a SMALL handful. I wouldn't mind doing it, but it would be a chore to keep the interest of the few. Problem is, they have a LOT of material. But most consider their golden age to have been in the '80s and don't know or care about any of the other material. So whether I go chronologically or by rank, once we get past the '80s material, I would lose a good chunk of an already very small audience. I dunno. I might do it just for fun anyway.
They're one of those bands I've always been curious about but never really looked into. So, I'd definitely check it out. Dave Meniketti did a great podcast with Dean Delray last summer. It was like 2 hours of him going over the band's history. If you're a fan of the band, I'd recommend looking for it.
It's true that nothing has grabbed me after Ten, but worth revisiting without the expectation I had going in to those albums.
Always worth seeing live. Such a great band live. Last saw them a few years ago in a sweaty club in Manchester. They totally blew the place up.
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Hey, if "we need a friggin' break, Stads" is the right answer, so be it, I can take it, but anyone interested in another discography? I really enjoyed that, particularly revisiting some of the albums I haven't heard in a while.
I figure a band with about 15 albums. Not sure who I would do; thinking maybe Cheap Trick (CT has 17, plus Found All The Parts)? AC/DC? Sabbath (19)? Ozzy solo (11)? Purple? Rainbow?
I don't really care about any of those groups very much, but I would follow it because I like your writing and everyone else's comments.
Same with bosky and Y&T.
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Okay...done.
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:tup
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I think that list is excellent.
I would be happy to do things in chronological order. I just went with the ranking because I didn't know better. I'm not writing this for my health, it's to entertain. I can always give a ranking as well on the side (or after).
Your call. But it's fun for me to write this stuff and as I said, it's cool to revisit albums I haven't heard from in a while.
How about album by album (from KISS to Monster) and we can all chime in? I can talk endlessly about KISS. I vote for ranking them at the end. I enjoyed the write ups when you did your list.
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It's funny. Cheap Trick is one of those bands that, for whatever reason, I've never had a great appreciation for. I know tons of people love them (especially older KISS fans). To me, they've always been just "meh".
On Samsara's site a few years ago, I buddied up with a Cheap Trick lover. He walked me through the first few Cheap Trick albums, and I did the same with Alice Cooper for him. It was a fun exercise, but I'm with you. At the end of the day, they just don't really do a lot for me. I did see them live around '87ish and it was cool.
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I'm a big Cheap Trick guy. Their new album is awesome.
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I have At Budokan and am familiar with the radio staples. I also liked the 1997 S/T...what would be considered "essential" Cheap Trick for a novice?
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what would be considered "essential" Cheap Trick for a novice?
Y & T! ;D
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I have At Budokan and am familiar with the radio staples. I also liked the 1997 S/T...what would be considered "essential" Cheap Trick for a novice?
Obviously the first 4 studio albums. I'm nuts over One On One. The 1997 ST is excellent and for the newer albums I'd suggest Rockford.
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I have At Budokan and am familiar with the radio staples. I also liked the 1997 S/T...what would be considered "essential" Cheap Trick for a novice?
Obviously the first 4 studio albums. I'm nuts over One On One. The 1997 ST is excellent and for the newer albums I'd suggest Rockford.
I'll check those out. Thanks!!
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I have At Budokan and am familiar with the radio staples. I also liked the 1997 S/T...what would be considered "essential" Cheap Trick for a novice?
Obviously the first 4 studio albums. I'm nuts over One On One. The 1997 ST is excellent and for the newer albums I'd suggest Rockford.
Ahhh... see... this is going to get me to do this. I know it. (Though I'll wait for Bosk). The four are essential, true.
"One on One" is good, but "All Shook Up" is odder and better.
"S/T (97)" is very good.
"Rockford" is good, but "The Latest" is better (it actually gets my vote for "top three post-2010 album by a band that everyone thinks had their heyday in the 70's/early 80's). I LOVE that album.
Also a big fan of "Standing on the Edge".
I'll check those out. Thanks!!
[/quote]
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And I think The Latest and SOTE are weak. Like tastes man. :lol
I like ASU. It's the middle of the pack for me.
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Tonight it's KISS Rocks Vegas...KISS on the big screen.
For one night only. On 25 May 2016 Film of KISS' 9 day run of concerts at the Hard Rock Cafe in Las Vegas, Nevada in November 2014. Including exclusive behind the scenes footage.
Anyone checking this out? Even though I'm not the biggest fan of this lineup, I'm going and I am actually looking forward to it.
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I'm a big Cheap guy.
Yeah we know.
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I'm a big Cheap guy.
Yeah we know.
I haven't wined and dined you yet. How do you know? :eyebrows:
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That's how I know.
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:lol
Alright, alright. I'll have to make a trip to NC someday.
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:lol
Alright, alright. I'll have to make a trip to NC someday.
You do know that's North Carolina and NOT North Conway right?
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:lol
Alright, alright. I'll have to make a trip to NC someday.
You do know that's North Carolina and NOT North Conway right?
I was at the Outer Banks 3 years ago so yes Tim. *Rolls eyes* :lol
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Listening to The Elder right now. Glad I didn´t bought this when I was 15 or something. Actually like the orchestral stuff.
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I was shocked listening to it but over the years I've come to like it.
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I've also really been digging some of it over the last several days. I understand the hate, but some of the stuff is right up my alley.
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I know Stadler disagrees, but the production really castrates the energy out of the music. Think of The Oath with Animalize's production. Or I with Creature's production.
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This is definetely true. They should remaster it. On the whole album there's perhaps only two songs I really don't like. Also, Paul's versatillity in his voice really comes through on this album.
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Listening to it right now, tracks like The Oath, Dark light, Only you, Odyssey and A World without heroes are pretty awesome. Mr. Blackwell isn't as bad as I thought it would be, I dislike some of the vocal melodies on the chorus but the rest is groovy. The production is slightly flat, though.
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Listening to The Elder right now. Glad I didn´t bought this when I was 15 or something. Actually like the orchestral stuff.
I think I was 14 or something. I liked it but it was a bit of a wtf moment compared to what I'd heard from them previously. As a big comic fan I bought into the concept too, which helped.
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Other than the fact that it doesn't really fit with the storyline, I always really liked Mr Blackwell.
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Music from The Elder was confusing. I thought it was the soundtrack from some movie that I'd never seen; the title seemed to suggest that. From the song titles and lyrics, there was obviously a story going on, and I could figure out some of it, but basically it came down to whether or not I liked the music. Fortunately, I did. This came at a time when I was getting more into prog, and KISS was holding my interest less and less, so this album helped, as they clearly were trying something different, something more adventurous.
I never did figure out why it was called Music from The Elder if it wasn't from some movie or production called The Elder. What's the deal there?
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It's my understanding that an actual movie had been planned, but was immediately scrapped upon the instant failure of the album.
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The idea was to do a movie or some sort of stage production, but that was shelved when the album was poorly received. Basically Gene Simmons wanted his own version of Tommy.
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I know Stadler disagrees, but the production really castrates the energy out of the music. Think of The Oath with Animalize's production. Or I with Creature's production.
Huh. You like the Creatures production better than the Elder production? I think it's clear I love the Creatures through Animalize stuff, but it's too trebly and thin for me, and they went back and forth on the drum sound (too heavy on Creatures, and not quite heavy enough on Lick... and Animalize).
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I was 8 when The Elder was released. I bought it (it was new and it was KISS) and didn't think much of it. 3 years later I bought the A World Without Heroes/Dark Light 45 for $1 at a local record shop. I loved Dark Light and revisited The Elder and was pleasantly surprised. I love it for what it is but it's difficult to rate it vs the rest of the catalog because it's such a stark contrast to anything else they've done. I guess it is comparable to The Astonishing (which I also love for what it is) in that regard.
Ace's leads smoke, Paul is top notch vocally, and Gene's contributions are solid. Depending on my mood, it's a 7 or 8 out of 10 for me.
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Other than the fact that it doesn't really fit with the storyline, I always really liked Mr Blackwell.
I couldn't really follow the storyline because they changed the songs around to put the rocker and the single as the first tracks on side one and two. Makes no sense from then on.
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Other than the fact that it doesn't really fit with the storyline, I always really liked Mr Blackwell.
I couldn't really follow the storyline because they changed the songs around to put the rocker and the single as the first tracks on side one and two. Makes no sense from then on.
Ya but how long has it been since that version has been available?
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Strange. I seems like the soundtrack would only be released upon success of the movie or play, not the other way around. It's cool to write a concept album and be ambitious about it becoming a full-blown production, but the music also has to speak for itself. With KISS, their style was so firmly fixed already that a major departure from that could be fatal, as it apparently was. But Tommy was an album first, as was Quadrophenia, so what do I know?
Personally, I don't really think Music from The Elder sounds completely different from earlier stuff; just KISS trying something new, and I have no problem with that. I can understand if some fans did, though.
As usual, it seems that the suits are at least partly responsible for the failure of the album. You can't just fuck with the track order of a concept album, for one thing. Obviously there's an order that makes sense with respect to the story. This isn't just some batch of songs which can be rearranged randomly or in order to put the lead single first or whatever. Also, I don't remember seeing any promotion for this album, and certainly nothing to clarify that it was a concept album. I won't lower myself to use some cliché about KISS fans not being able to understand a concept album or be willing to indulge something other than a random batch of songs, but I'm sure that there was at least some of that factoring in.
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The real blame was on Gene and Paul. Ace wanted to do a rock album. He was outvoted by Gene and Paul. Their popularity was waning and coming out with a concept album that was not rocking killed it at the time for Kiss.
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Music From the Elder has been discussed more in this thread over the last two days than it has been anywhere else in the universe in the last two decades.
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I'm curious to see what the end result would have been if Ace had gotten his way. I mean, I love MFTE, but Ace always seemed to have the proper vision. Solo album? Rocked. Frehley's Comet? Rocked. He just has that rocker vibe and feel and style that he wasn't entirely willing to deviate from. Paul and Gene were willing to, and it bit them in the ass.
Music From the Elder has been discussed more in this thread over the last two days than it has been anywhere else in the universe in the last two decades.
:rollin
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Don't say that too load Hef!
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Don't say that too load Hef!
That's a loaded statement.
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The real blame was on Gene and Paul. Ace wanted to do a rock album. He was outvoted by Gene and Paul. Their popularity was waning and coming out with a concept album that was not rocking killed it at the time for Kiss.
This made me think. What if Creatures of the night had happened before Music from the elder, would have the situation been different? The fan base would have been brought back to the fold and the band would have been able to try something new. More people would've probably checked it out and appreciated it for being different yet realized it has its share of heavier, classic sounding songs.
Going back through the albums I know (now it's the first 10 - thanks, Stadler), listening to the debut. These are the songs that made me fall in love with the band all those years ago. :metal
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Don't say that too load Hef!
That's a loaded statement.
Oh Shit. :lol Loud! Loud! :lol
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The real blame was on Gene and Paul. Ace wanted to do a rock album. He was outvoted by Gene and Paul. Their popularity was waning and coming out with a concept album that was not rocking killed it at the time for Kiss.
This made me think. What if Creatures of the night had happened before Music from the elder, would have the situation been different? The fan base would have been brought back to the fold and the band would have been able to try something new. More people would've probably checked it out and appreciated it for being different yet realized it has its share of heavier, classic sounding songs.
Going back through the albums I know (now it's the first 10 - thanks, Stadler), listening to the debut. These are the songs that made me fall in love with the band all those years ago. :metal
Probably not but at the time it was a nail in the coffin. They had to cancel a tour because no one wanted to see that live. Creatures tour was bad filling only 5 to 8 thousand a night. Though the word was out that Ace wasn't in the band anymore.
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That makes sense. Hardcore fans would've been put off by it. But it worked for me since as I said I'd kinda moved on and was entering my prog phase, and I saw it at the record store one day and thought "I wonder what the boys are up to these days" and it looked like a soundtrack or concept album or something, so I thought "Cool!" and bought it on the spot. And I wasn't disappointed. But no, it's definitely not Destroyer or Hotter than Hell.
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Music From the Elder has been discussed more in this thread over the last two days than it has been anywhere else in the universe in the last two decades.
:lol
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Talking about the Elder is cathartic. We are all now admitting we like it but couldn't back then. :lol
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It's my wife's favorite KISS album. Actually the only one she likes. She caught the famous Fridays episode where they played "A World Without Heroes" and she thought it was a great song. She's a rocker, but KISS in general is a bit too primal for her.
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Don't say that too load Hef!
That's a loaded statement.
Oh Shit. :lol Loud! Loud! :lol
I almost never call people out for grammar/spelling (unless the sitch warrants it) but I opened word, opened a new document, cut and pasted just to read that, and you blow the spelling????? Brah!!!!!!
:) I'm kidding.
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It's ok. I have a reputation and it's warranted. :lol
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The real blame was on Gene and Paul. Ace wanted to do a rock album. He was outvoted by Gene and Paul. Their popularity was waning and coming out with a concept album that was not rocking killed it at the time for Kiss.
This made me think. What if Creatures of the night had happened before Music from the elder, would have the situation been different? The fan base would have been brought back to the fold and the band would have been able to try something new. More people would've probably checked it out and appreciated it for being different yet realized it has its share of heavier, classic sounding songs.
Going back through the albums I know (now it's the first 10 - thanks, Stadler), listening to the debut. These are the songs that made me fall in love with the band all those years ago. :metal
Probably not but at the time it was a nail in the coffin. They had to cancel a tour because no one wanted to see that live. Creatures tour was bad filling only 5 to 8 thousand a night. Though the word was out that Ace wasn't in the band anymore.
Not responding to anyone in particular, just the line of thought, but let's not lose sight of the context. First, Creatures wouldn't have happened without The Elder. It just wouldn't have. Second, I think that the fail of The Elder was more in the marketing and presentation than the music. There are cringe-worthy moments, to be sure, but is fanfare any worse than Great Expectations? And "Only You/Under The Rose" isn't that far off musically from the four songs on Killers, which are widely considered to be the 'prequel' to Creatures. Third, as for Ace, even he admits that he wasn't really in it to win it, regardless, and when Paul told him they WOULD follow his ideas instead of theirs, he didn't take the opportunity.
I'm not saying you guys are wrong, but for me, what's a better question is if Ace, Gene and Paul said, "let's rebound from The Elder and do a rock album". I know, Vinnie was sort of the new blood on Creatures, but he only wrote three (two?) songs; if that had those songs, plus a handful of Ace tunes and his soloing? Creatures could be even better than it was (and for me it's pretty damn good).
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Kiss was losing their core fan base with Dynasty and Unmasked. They needed at the time to do a hard rock album again. Durring the mid 70's fans were looking to stretch they musical limits. Towards 1980 there was a switch. Prog rock was becoming past tense, it was a bad time to release it.
That's why I mentioned the tour. Even with no Ace they still has a tour but to have a tour canceled when a new album is coming out? That spoke volumes.
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Don't say that too load Hef!
That's a loaded statement.
Oh Shit. :lol Loud! Loud! :lol
I almost never call people out for grammar/spelling (unless the sitch warrants it) but I opened word, opened a new document, cut and pasted just to read that, and you blow the spelling????? Brah!!!!!!
:) I'm kidding.
If you just quote his post, you don't have to go through all that. Unless I misunderstood something.
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Talking about the Elder is cathartic. We are all now admitting we like it but couldn't back then. :lol
Not so much liking, it's more understanding it. My ears were not ready back then. It's a very mature album.
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Talking about the Elder is cathartic. We are all now admitting we like it but couldn't back then. :lol
Not so much liking, it's more understanding it. My ears were not ready back then. It's a very mature album.
None of my peers liked KISS anyway so I didn't have to defend MFTE anymore than any other KISS album :biggrin:
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Talking about the Elder is cathartic. We are all now admitting we like it but couldn't back then. :lol
Not so much liking, it's more understanding it. My ears were not ready back then. It's a very mature album.
I would agree but I was also into Queen back then. I've always liked diversity in bands.
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Also thought the costumes from that period looked pretty rad.
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I did as well.
Talking about the Elder is cathartic. We are all now admitting we like it but couldn't back then. :lol
Not so much liking, it's more understanding it. My ears were not ready back then. It's a very mature album.
None of my peers liked KISS anyway so I didn't have to defend MFTE anymore than any other KISS album :biggrin:
You should have got rid of them. :lol
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Also thought the costumes from that period looked pretty rad.
I don't disagree (I didn't really hate Paul's short hair or bandana as much as a lot of people did) but I will say this, I think I am in the vast minority of fans when I say that I DEPLORE the alternate characters. HATED the Fox, and there is no word strong enough for how much I despised The Ankh.
Ed Trunk is big on saying that "Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer shouldn't be wearing the Spaceman and the Cat; they should have done their own thing" and I disagree with that wholeheartedly. That was, in my opinion, the single greatest misstep in a career that unfortunately has a couple missteps in it.
Maybe because I strongly dislike Peter (and feel disrespected by how he quote "played" unquote on the Rockimus Maximus tour) and am indifferent on Ace live (I saw him butcher a fair number of songs in MSG on the reunion tour) but the recent shows I've seen I was able to get lost in the image and have a good time. In fact, my 15-year-old said this week: "Dad, Kiss is coming to Bridgeport in the fall. Are we going?" as if it was a fait accompli.
Here's a list for you:
TOP FIVE MISSTEPS IN KISS'S CAREER
- The Fox and The Ankh (though I understand why they had to do The Fox to start with)
- Carnival of Souls (I want to hear about fucking when I listen to Kiss. Not self-loathing)
- Not touring Creatures in the States
- Mark St. John (should have gone with someone more bluesy, instead of following the shredder theme even further)
- Not getting Bob Ezrin to produce and demanding that Ace and Peter play on Psycho Circus
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Stadler, Kiss did tour for Creatures in the States though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_of_the_Night_Tour/10th_Anniversary_Tour#Tour_dates
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Well I can see how you view the Cat and the Spaceman as being Icons in the KISS mythology. I personally didn't have any problems with that. The Ankh though? Lame-ass sign to pick. Why not the Sphinx? Or the Pharao?
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I liked the idea of alternate characters, and thought The Fox was okay. It made sense; the original four were those individual people. The Cat was Peter, the Space Guy (I don't know if I've ever known the official name) was Ace. I'm sure when they were coming up with the concept, the question of what to do should anyone ever leave the band and/or be replaced didn't come up. So since The Cat was gone, the new drummer would need a new identity, a new character. The Fox. The Ankh was lame, but whatever. By that point, the idea was to continue with each new member having their own identity, so if that's what the guy chose, that's what it was. And this was what, still back in the 80's? The very idea of rock bands lasting 20 or 30 years, hell even 10, and just replacing members and continuing, was still pretty new. I really don't think they had a contingency plan.
I honestly don't like "whoever is currently playing lead guitar is Ace" and "whoever is currently drumming is The Cat". That's stupid.
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I don't have a problem with the new characters as KISS was just doing what was necessary to keep going. It's easy with the benefit of hindsight to disagree with new characters...who thought KISS would be this iconic (let alone still around) 30 years later? From a marketing/merchandising perspective, I totally get why Tommy & Eric are the Spaceman and Catman...doesn't mean I have to like it.
KISS's biggest mistake (aside from the Psycho Circus debacle and mishandling of the Eric Carr situation)? I'd say not going right to Bruce after Vinnie. It was just an odd time in the mid 80's...MSJ records Animalize (LOL except for Bruce's leads on Lonely is the Hunter and Murder In High Heels...two songs nobody ever listens to anyway) and then suddenly can't tour so Bruce tours with Mark playing here and there when he can. Bruce eventually gets the job but it was a confusing time in KISStory.
Mark miraculously healed in time to form and record with White Tiger within two years from his supposed catastrophic "Reiter's Syndrome".
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Stadler, Kiss did tour for Creatures in the States though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_of_the_Night_Tour/10th_Anniversary_Tour#Tour_dates
I feel stupid; I could have sworn that they went to Europe, came back and cancelled the tour.
EDIT: I know what happened; they DID go to Europe, and they DID come back and cancelled a couple SHOWS, but the remainder of the tour went on. Dammit.
Sorry, guys.
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KISS's biggest mistake (aside from the Psycho Circus debacle and mishandling of the Eric Carr situation)? I'd say not going right to Bruce after Vinnie. It was just an odd time in the mid 80's...MSJ records Animalize (LOL except for Bruce's leads on Lonely is the Hunter and Murder In High Heels...two songs nobody ever listens to anyway) and then suddenly can't tour so Bruce tours with Mark playing here and there when he can. Bruce eventually gets the job but it was a confusing time in KISStory.
Mark miraculously healed in time to form and record with White Tiger within two years from his supposed catastrophic "Reiter's Syndrome".
I think there's more to the story there, and for the life of me, with all the mud that Gene and Paul have slung, I wonder why it hasn't come out. Maybe a confidentiality quid pro quo? But MSJ is passed, so who cares at this point? I don't know.
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Stadler, Kiss did tour for Creatures in the States though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_of_the_Night_Tour/10th_Anniversary_Tour#Tour_dates
I feel stupid; I could have sworn that they went to Europe, came back and cancelled the tour.
EDIT: I know what happened; they DID go to Europe, and they DID come back and cancelled a couple SHOWS, but the remainder of the tour went on. Dammit.
Sorry, guys.
I remember reading a review in the Boston Herald talking about Vinnie's playing and how they only had 5000 people for the show at the Centrum.
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KISS's biggest mistake (aside from the Psycho Circus debacle and mishandling of the Eric Carr situation)? I'd say not going right to Bruce after Vinnie. It was just an odd time in the mid 80's...MSJ records Animalize (LOL except for Bruce's leads on Lonely is the Hunter and Murder In High Heels...two songs nobody ever listens to anyway) and then suddenly can't tour so Bruce tours with Mark playing here and there when he can. Bruce eventually gets the job but it was a confusing time in KISStory.
Mark miraculously healed in time to form and record with White Tiger within two years from his supposed catastrophic "Reiter's Syndrome".
I think there's more to the story there, and for the life of me, with all the mud that Gene and Paul have slung, I wonder why it hasn't come out. Maybe a confidentiality quid pro quo? But MSJ is passed, so who cares at this point? I don't know.
I think they (Paul) quickly realized Mark wasn't a good fit. From there they needed an out without violating the contract. I saw Mark at a convention in the 90's and spoke with him briefly and the whole KISS tenure wasn't very glamorous from his vantage point. There was a lot of stress involved which may or may not have caused the arthritis which evolved into Reiter's Syndrome and gave the KISS Corp the out they needed and allowed MSJ to save face.
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That's interesting dtv.
And for anyone questioning tour dates. This is a great site.
https://www.kissmonster.com/tourdates/set_lists.php
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I'm re-reading Paul Stanley's biography and it's still a very enjoyable read. So many facepalm moments from Peter and Ace, he's not holding back at all. :lol
The funnier moments has surely got to be Ace and Peter's obsession with their dicks. Like randomly telling Paul and Gene how long it is, wipping it out in the dressing room, etc. :lol
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Kiss was losing their core fan base with Dynasty and Unmasked. They needed at the time to do a hard rock album again. Durring the mid 70's fans were looking to stretch they musical limits. Towards 1980 there was a switch. Prog rock was becoming past tense, it was a bad time to release it.
That's why I mentioned the tour. Even with no Ace they still has a tour but to have a tour canceled when a new album is coming out? That spoke volumes.
Huge KISS fan when I was a kid in the 70's. Never been more disappointed with the release of a new album then I was with Dynasty, I still clearly remember walking to the local record store with my brother and sister, coming home all excited with Dynasty in my hand. Popping the album on as soon as I got home and being extremely disappointed with it. DISCO!, What !! This isn't real KISS. Of course, at the time my musical tastes were expanding to other Rock and Metal bands.
What a huge disappointment it was. Was young and kinda into the "Disco Sucks" thing, so I was biased. Also, i'm sure if I listen to it now I'll enjoy some songs on it.
But, that was it for me as a fan. A few songs on Creatures sounded good, wasn't into the glam metal scene of their middle/late 80's albums. And when you find out later that Peter and Ace didn't really even record anything or very little on a few of those albums it kinda took away the feel as them being a "true" band. That was one of the reasons I really loved KISS as a kid, 4 different characters that made up this cool band. Unfortunately, 2 of them were idiots. Just my opinion.
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So I got an email today from Amazon for KISS' Ritz On Fire CD. It's the '88 Radio broadcast.
https://www.amazon.com/Ritz-Fire-Kiss/dp/B00FXRX1TW/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
I'm embarrassed to not know this, as I had a copy of the broadcast on cassette years ago, but one of the comments on Amazon states that two songs were cut from the show. Does anyone know which ones?
EDIT: I found my answer via Naked City Boots. It's Bang Bang You and Reason To Live. Won't really miss either, especially BBY which is one of the worst KISS tracks ever.
OK. Gonna order this!
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I've finished the Peter Criss biography now and man, if nothing else, it was entertaining. :lol
What I found interesting is how fundamentally different Peter Criss and Paul Stanley views the reunion tour. Peter claims he was ripped off and moreover, that Paul and Gene constantly behaved like jackasses towards him. Paul says that Ace and Peter both did what they did in the 70s - drinking, drugging and whining.
I guess the truth is probably somewhere in between.
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I've finished the Peter Criss biography now and man, if nothing else, it was entertaining. :lol
What I found interesting is how fundamentally different Peter Criss and Paul Stanley views the reunion tour. Peter claims he was ripped off and moreover, that Paul and Gene constantly behaved like jackasses towards him. Paul says that Ace and Peter both did what they did in the 70s - drinking, drugging and whining.
I guess the truth is probably somewhere in between.
I think the truth is somewhere in between with Ace, but I don't believe that with Peter. He's been a bitter, angry guy from the beginning, and honestly I find it hard to believe ANYTHING he says. Remember: Peter didn't do a major, headlining arena tour for 16 years between the last tour he did with Kiss, and the Reunion. I saw them multiple times after the reunion and he gets the nod for the worst performance ever for a major artist on a major tour, for his performance at the Aerosmith show. I am convinced that there was a drummer backstage.
Bob Kulick recently revealed that even back in the 70's they had drummer's on call (like he and Dick Wagner were on call for lead guitar) but he couldn't prove which songs were which.
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Neat article. Not much new..
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/an-oral-history-of-kiss-destroyer-its-a-miracle-were-alive-20160315?page=13
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I've finished the Peter Criss biography now and man, if nothing else, it was entertaining. :lol
What I found interesting is how fundamentally different Peter Criss and Paul Stanley views the reunion tour. Peter claims he was ripped off and moreover, that Paul and Gene constantly behaved like jackasses towards him. Paul says that Ace and Peter both did what they did in the 70s - drinking, drugging and whining.
I guess the truth is probably somewhere in between.
I think the truth is somewhere in between with Ace, but I don't believe that with Peter. He's been a bitter, angry guy from the beginning, and honestly I find it hard to believe ANYTHING he says. Remember: Peter didn't do a major, headlining arena tour for 16 years between the last tour he did with Kiss, and the Reunion. I saw them multiple times after the reunion and he gets the nod for the worst performance ever for a major artist on a major tour, for his performance at the Aerosmith show. I am convinced that there was a drummer backstage.
Bob Kulick recently revealed that even back in the 70's they had drummer's on call (like he and Dick Wagner were on call for lead guitar) but he couldn't prove which songs were which.
I totally agree with you about Peter, I was just being a bit careful in my wording. :lol The book makes it pretty clear that he has no clue about anything.Neat article. Not much new..
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/an-oral-history-of-kiss-destroyer-its-a-miracle-were-alive-20160315
Fixed the link. :) Interesting article but as you say, not much new.
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What I got from the Peter book was, it was all everyone else's fault. Particularly paul and Gene.
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The fact that, back in the 70's, Peter would intentionally sabotage his performance is shameful. I believe it's Largo, MD on the Dynasty tour that he screws up the lyrics to "Beth". No self-respecting person in his right mind would ever do that. Especially when it's really like a 2nd solo spot for you in the concert. And, adding a little tear drop to his makeup in the final days of the Reunion tour?!? Grow the f*ck up, you big baby!
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So I got an email today from Amazon for KISS' Ritz On Fire CD. It's the '88 Radio broadcast.
https://www.amazon.com/Ritz-Fire-Kiss/dp/B00FXRX1TW/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
I'm embarrassed to not know this, as I had a copy of the broadcast on cassette years ago, but one of the comments on Amazon states that two songs were cut from the show. Does anyone know which ones?
EDIT: I found my answer via Naked City Boots. It's Bang Bang You and Reason To Live. Won't really miss either, especially BBY which is one of the worst KISS tracks ever.
OK. Gonna order this!
I actually bought this bootleg on cassette back in the '80's at a flea market from one of those dudes with 1000's of cassette and video cassette bootlegs for sale. That was the 102.7 WNEW broadcast, right? I believe I have this in FLAC form on a hard drive, too. Good show.
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I had it on bootleg too, and listened to it a ton back in the day.
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The fact that, back in the 70's, Peter would intentionally sabotage his performance is shameful. I believe it's Largo, MD on the Dynasty tour that he screws up the lyrics to "Beth". No self-respecting person in his right mind would ever do that. Especially when it's really like a 2nd solo spot for you in the concert. And, adding a little tear drop to his makeup in the final days of the Reunion tour?!? Grow the f*ck up, you big baby!
THIS. 2:45 of a song YOU CLAIMED TO WRITE, for your WIFE, and you can't remember the words? GTFU.
I'm literally writing this in real time:
Beth I hear you calling, but I can't come home right now
Me and the boys are playing, and we just can't find the sounds...
Just a few more hours, and I'll be right home to you,
I think I hear them calling, oh Beth what can I do... duh duh
Beth what can I do?
Beth I know you're empty, and our house just ain't a home
I'm always somewhere else, and you're always there alone
Just a few more hours, and I'll be right home to you,
I think I hear them calling, oh Beth what can I do... bum bum
Beth what can I do?
Beth I know you're lonely, and I hope you'll be all right
'Cause me and the boys will be playing, all night
Ah-ahhhhhhhhhhhh
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SO I just looked it up. These are the official lyrics:
Beth, I hear you callin', but I can't come home right now
Me and the boys are playin' and we just can't find the sound
Just a few more hours and I'll be right home to you
I think I hear them callin', oh, Beth what can I do
Beth what can I do
You say you feel so empty, that our house just ain't a home
And I'm always somewhere else and you're always there alone
Just a few more hours, and I'll be right home to you
I think I hear them callin', oh, Beth what can I do
Beth what can I do
Beth, I know you're lonely and I hope you'll be alright
'Cause me and the boys will be playin' all night
I pronounce my "g's", and I had a couple words wrong here or there, but it would pass in front of 10,000 people. He's unprofessional and childish. No matter how much Perry and Tyler or Richards and Jagger are pissed off, the show never suffers.
I saw Kiss with Def Leppard, and the first three songs or so were lackluster (I even apologized to my daughter who was at her first Kiss show) and Gene's "flying rig" failed (he got about five feet off the ground and froze; it was kind of funny) and you could tell the band got pissed off. Gene went to the side and was screaming at a roadie... from that point on the band went NUTS. They fucking NAILED IT. You could literally see them step up (my daughter actually noticed, and said "Dad, what happened??"). Point being, professionals step up and deliver in adversity, losers paint "tear drops" on their face and tank the performance.
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The fact that, back in the 70's, Peter would intentionally sabotage his performance is shameful. I believe it's Largo, MD on the Dynasty tour that he screws up the lyrics to "Beth". No self-respecting person in his right mind would ever do that. Especially when it's really like a 2nd solo spot for you in the concert. And, adding a little tear drop to his makeup in the final days of the Reunion tour?!? Grow the f*ck up, you big baby!
Did he screw it up on purpose? Probably just off his tits and too lazy to care.
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The fact that, back in the 70's, Peter would intentionally sabotage his performance is shameful. I believe it's Largo, MD on the Dynasty tour that he screws up the lyrics to "Beth". No self-respecting person in his right mind would ever do that. Especially when it's really like a 2nd solo spot for you in the concert. And, adding a little tear drop to his makeup in the final days of the Reunion tour?!? Grow the f*ck up, you big baby!
Did he screw it up on purpose? Probably just off his tits and too lazy to care.
I think he copped to sandbagging it, and I know Paul claimed that Peter purposefully would go off script to screw with the other members he was mad at.
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This is actually somewhat fascinating. Do we know of any video of this kinda thing happening?
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This is actually somewhat fascinating. Do we know of any video of this kinda thing happening?
There is video of the Landover show. I have a copy of the entire show. I found the "Beth" clip on YT. Look for KISS Beth Largo, MD 1979. Totally unprofessional!
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You know, you could just post the link instead of making it difficult.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywR-ZgOMNQo
Ouch.
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Holy mackerel. Forget about the words; did he pick the key at random out of a hat? That's an embarrassment. I see that, and I have no problems whatsoever with Eric and Tommy. I don't blame Gene and Paul for not entrusting their baby to this clown.
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I don't for a minute believe he deliberately fucked it up, he's just a shit singer (though strangely he has a good studio tone) and he's off his tits.
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I haven't been contributing as much but this has been one of the most enjoyable threads on here for me since the Yes discography. Lots of things I didn't know about this band. My knowledge of their history mostly comes from the music itself and the Kissology box sets (which are, without a doubt, the best anthology set by any band I'm a fan of). So y'all have made me more interested and today I picked up the Nothing To Lose book, really looking forward to going through it as well as eventually checking out all 4 autobiographies (probably in the order they were written).
Surprised at how unanimous this forum is when it comes to Ace/Peter and the current lineup. Personally I like Ace and Peter and enjoyed their songs in the band as well as some of Ace's solo stuff. I think Ace still has a lot to offer, especially now that he's sober. Thought Anomaly was just as good as Sonic Boom, if not better. I'm not interested in the current Kiss, but that isn't because of Tommy and Eric. I just don't find the last two albums that interesting and the live shows seem to have declined in the last few years. I saw that lineup on one of their first tours (maybe the first) and it was awesome. Sonic Boom was one of my most anticipated albums at the time and I got it on release day. I still think it's a good album, especially Paul's songs, just not on the level of the 70s stuff it was trying to emulate. I'm definitely not one of those fans who are completely against current Kiss, what they do now just doesn't do anything for me.
That Peter clip is awful though, can't deny that.
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I don't for a minute believe he deliberately fucked it up, he's just a shit singer (though strangely he has a good studio tone) and he's off his tits.
I'm note sure about that particular performance but he admits in his book that he deliberately fucked up on that tour, both on drums and on vocals.
And about his studio vocal performances, many of the producers he's worked with says that while he has a really good voice, he has big problems controlling it, which makes it hard to get a good studio performance out of him.
So...in my mind, he's one lucky cat to have ever been in a famous band, and Kiss is probably the only famous band that would let him get away with being so shit. :lol Can you imagine Peter Criss playing for any other band?
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The Freedom To Rock Tour opened last night in Tuscon, Arizona. Setlist...
Detroit Rock City
Deuce
Shout It Out Loud
Creatures of the Night
War Machine
Psycho Circus
Calling Dr. Love
Shock Me
Cold Gin
Lick It Up
Bass Solo
(Gene Simmons spits blood)
I Love It Loud
100,000 Years
Love Gun
Black Diamond
Encores:
Beth
Rock and Roll All Nite
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Can you imagine Peter Criss playing for any other band?
Nickelback?
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The Freedom To Rock Tour opened last night in Tuscon, Arizona. Setlist...
Detroit Rock City
Deuce
Shout It Out Loud
Creatures of the Night
War Machine
Psycho Circus
Calling Dr. Love
Shock Me
Cold Gin
Lick It Up
Bass Solo
(Gene Simmons spits blood)
I Love It Loud
100,000 Years
Love Gun
Black Diamond
Encores:
Beth
Rock and Roll All Nite
I was actually thinking of seeing them in Worcester, but not for the $$ that they are priced at. That setlist..it's OK but not enough to get me out of my KISS concert retirement. It's all been heard and seen multiple times.
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I'd go see that; not that different than the Kiss/Def Leppard shed tour. War Machine wasn't as good life as I thought it would be, and Psycho Circus was tough for Paul to sing. Hopefully this tour will be different. If I can StubHub good seats, I'll take my daughter again (she's fifteen and loves the spectacle if not all the music).
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Meh, once was enough for me.
One thing that caught my eye was that they're doing Beth without Peter Criss. I always assumed they wouldn't touch that one, turns out its been in the setlist for a few years now. Actually a pretty neat version, with the band doing an unplugged thing. I always thought Peter Criss + the backing track was kind of lame.
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I suppose if I wasn't married with kids that I could cough up the $100, but it just doesn't seem worth it. I completely swore off of KISS shows after the "Farewell" tour.
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I suppose if I wasn't married with kids that I could cough up the $100, but it just doesn't seem worth it. I completely swore off of KISS shows after the "Farewell" tour.
The Farewell tour was it for me, too. I'd love for my daughter to see a show before Paul and Gene are no longer in the band (my daughter's 9-years old). But, their setlist has been pretty stagnant for a long time. I'm as tired of some of those songs as those songs are tired.
War Machine wasn't as good life as I thought it would be.
If War Machine and I Love It Loud disappeared from the setlist forever, I wouldn't be disappointed at all. I understand Gene needs some songs, too. But, there are plenty of other songs to choose from. Those two songs have been in the setlist for 30+ years. And, they show it, too. Very tired.
I must be tired. I haven't used that word so much... ever.
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I like War Machine well enough but iirc they play it too fast and it loses its impact. Can't stand ILIL.
Same tired old setlist. They could rotate some other songs in, surely. Would it really hurt?
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We saw the Reunion, the Psycho Circus, and then the farewell tour and I came out of that show feeling completely ripped off. Having felt like I sat through the exact same show three times in a row, I told my wife that we are NOT going to see KISS again unless they offered something dramatically new.
I know they've played a bunch of different tunes over the past decade plus, but I've really only come to grips with actually accepting the "Tommy" version of the band, thanks in large part to this thread. It rekindled my interest, so much so that I actually went to Ticketmaster to check out tix for this tour.
They've been playing The Oath on the KISS Kruise now for a couple of years. If they also incorporated an acoustic set to their main show. I get RnR All Night, but I don't ever need to see Gold Gin, Duece, or Beth again.
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It surprises me that they still use the same old tired set list. Paul wrote in his book that the reason that the Reunion tour, the Psycho Circus tour and the Farewell tour hade more or less the same set lists was because of Peter's and Ace's inability to learn new songs. Well...they now got two guys who can play basically ANY material you throw at them and they still play the same songs? Seems kind of odd. Especially since they have brought out a few surprises with the current lineup before, when I saw them on the Sonic Boom tour, they played Crazy Nights and God Gave Rock N Roll To You for example.
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Last night's setlist from Boise, ID (it's getting better)...
Detroit Rock City
Deuce
Shout It Out Loud
Creatures of the Night
War Machine (Gene spits fire)
Flaming Youth
Psycho Circus
Calling Dr. Love
Shock Me (Guitar solo)
Strutter
Cold Gin
Lick It Up
Bass Solo (Gene spits blood and flies)
I Love It Loud
100,000 Years
Love Gun (Paul flies out to the crowd)
Black Diamond
Encore:
Beth
The Star-Spangled Banner (John Stafford Smith cover)
Rock and Roll All Nite
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It's getting longer. I thought the first set list was rather short, 16 songs, most under four minutes in length? I'd still watch it if I had the opportunity, though.
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I've seen the band 30+ times since 1990, and after seeing the opening night's setlist, I was convinced I was skipping this tour.
Seeing Flaming Youth would be a first for me and I've always loved Strutter so I may reconsider. Who am I kidding? I'll go to State College or Allentown. Some things about the setlist still bug me like Shock Me and Beth. Tommy and Eric have their own songs...so do them. Lick It Up and I Love It Loud have been done to death and neither was a huge hit to begin with...like a casual fan would know the difference if they sprinkled in I Stole Your Love and Ladies Room.
Truthfully though, I don't get that same excitement and haven't since the Alive 35 Tour in 2009 (I drove over 1,000 miles to see them over two nights at Cobo Hall in Detroit). I don't know if it's Paul's vocal issues or the tuning down to D but the spark is missing in the songs...some sound plodding and lifeless. It just seems like they're going through the motions yet the acoustic shows look like a blast (I'm not willing to spend the $$$ for that...Gene and Paul inc have more than enough of my money in the form of dolls, books, playsets, games, puzzles, belt buckles, lunchboxes and that's not even counting the over 300 magazines and vinyl collection and 500+ cd's and dvd's).
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Wow, Flaming Youth? That's a more inspired choice. :tup Even if it is kind of funny for 60 year old guys to sing that, but I guess that can be said for most of their material. :lol
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Hell yeah. Flaming Youth is a pick I can get behind. Nice.
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Sorry for the bump, but I was reading about Carnival of Souls on Bruce Kulick's website and found that this was supposed to be the artwork for the album:
(https://www.kulick.net/carnivalofsouls/photos/COSartworkFlameHead_crop250.jpg)
Anyway, I saw that the artwork was done by an artist named Amy Guip. The artist name sounded familiar to me and after some thought I realized she's the artist who did When Dream and Day Unite by Dream Theater (https://www.allmusic.com/artist/amy-guip-mn0001738762). A DT/Kiss connection. Pretty cool!
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I think Sherinian was already a big enough DT/Kiss connection. :biggrin:
I recall it showed that album cover on one of the old KISS tapes from the early '90s, where they said it was going to be the next album cover, but then of course it wasn't.
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Oh yea, I always forget Sherinian did stuff with them.
It would've been a weird cover. But then again that whole album is weird, so it fits.
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Sorry for the bump, but I was reading about Carnival of Souls on Bruce Kulick's website and found that this was supposed to be the artwork for the album:
(https://www.kulick.net/carnivalofsouls/photos/COSartworkFlameHead_crop250.jpg)
Anyway, I saw that the artwork was done by an artist named Amy Guip. The artist name sounded familiar to me and after some thought I realized she's the artist who did When Dream and Day Unite by Dream Theater (https://www.allmusic.com/artist/amy-guip-mn0001738762). A DT/Kiss connection. Pretty cool!
Don't apologize. That's a great find, and one that I certainly wasn't aware of. Great catch!
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However, I DO apologize for this bump:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhniHwlajAU
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However, I DO apologize for this bump:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhniHwlajAU
What in the fuck...
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And yet another weird bump:
(https://www.kulick.net/revenge/RevengePhotos/GroupScream.jpg)
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That's an unusual picture. I don't mean this as a joke (though I think it speaks to the calculation and commercial savvy of Kiss, even from the beginning) but 43 years of being a national/international act, between Gene and Paul they have about five standard, stock facial expressions, and that's not one of them.
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I actually thought the faces were photoshopped in some fashion. The faces look very odd. Also, Eric's right arm looks very long and Paul's arms look a little weird.
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(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/lindagail520/KISS%20pics/KISS%20pics3/REVENGEPHOTOSESSIONgroup.jpg) :lol
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It looks like the photographer was specifically going for some "different" poses with the guys. That would explain why Gene and Paul aren't doing their stock faces, and also the above shot (presumably an out-take).
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Figured this would be an appropriate place to post this. Video from last year's Kiss Kruise of the band doing Mainline and All the Way. Very cool!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjmmzkE6SUk
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Awesome. I would love to see them do a theater style tour with a set built around tracks like that. I would definitely go see that.
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One tune I always wish they would've pulled out is "Getaway" from Dressed To Kill. Any of the 3 drummers over the years could've pulled it off vocally. Probably my second favorite Peter vocal, behind "Black Diamond" (all-time favorite KISS song).
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They also did a Creatures Of the Night themed set with more rarities.
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They also did a Creatures Of the Night themed set with more rarities.
Right. That is awesome!
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I'd pay to see that. I've long said (probably somewhere here in this thread) that I wish Kiss would do the "Iron Maiden" thing, and do a tour of recent stuff, and a tour of a certain era of the band. Kiss sort of did that for a while (the first reunion was essentially the Love Gun tour/set, and they've touched on the Destroyer era set/costumes) but I wouldn't mind expanding that. The problem is, they've NEVER been a real "rarities" band, even if they did drop some of those obscure Rock and Roll Over songs in for a show or two.
For me, a diehard, I'd love to see a whole set of songs from '74 to '80, and not have ONE song from Alive!, Alive II, or Double Platinum. I think it would just be me, Coz, Eddie Trunk, and Sophie in the audience though.
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I'd be there too. I swore off Kiss concerts years ago. They need something unique for me to go see them.
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Back in 2004 they did two regular large gigs here and a smaller more intimate gig with a varied setlist
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/kiss/2004/palais-theatre-melbourne-australia-3d405ef.html
Was a nice change
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That's a great setlist.
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I'd pay to see that. I've long said (probably somewhere here in this thread) that I wish Kiss would do the "Iron Maiden" thing, and do a tour of recent stuff, and a tour of a certain era of the band. Kiss sort of did that for a while (the first reunion was essentially the Love Gun tour/set, and they've touched on the Destroyer era set/costumes) but I wouldn't mind expanding that. The problem is, they've NEVER been a real "rarities" band, even if they did drop some of those obscure Rock and Roll Over songs in for a show or two.
For me, a diehard, I'd love to see a whole set of songs from '74 to '80, and not have ONE song from Alive!, Alive II, or Double Platinum. I think it would just be me, Coz, Eddie Trunk, and Sophie in the audience though.
I get to stand next to Sophie, though.
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I'd pay to see that. I've long said (probably somewhere here in this thread) that I wish Kiss would do the "Iron Maiden" thing, and do a tour of recent stuff, and a tour of a certain era of the band. Kiss sort of did that for a while (the first reunion was essentially the Love Gun tour/set, and they've touched on the Destroyer era set/costumes) but I wouldn't mind expanding that. The problem is, they've NEVER been a real "rarities" band, even if they did drop some of those obscure Rock and Roll Over songs in for a show or two.
For me, a diehard, I'd love to see a whole set of songs from '74 to '80, and not have ONE song from Alive!, Alive II, or Double Platinum. I think it would just be me, Coz, Eddie Trunk, and Sophie in the audience though.
I'd be there. My favourite KISS songs are not the ones Paul and gene think they are.
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I'd pay to see that. I've long said (probably somewhere here in this thread) that I wish Kiss would do the "Iron Maiden" thing, and do a tour of recent stuff, and a tour of a certain era of the band. Kiss sort of did that for a while (the first reunion was essentially the Love Gun tour/set, and they've touched on the Destroyer era set/costumes) but I wouldn't mind expanding that. The problem is, they've NEVER been a real "rarities" band, even if they did drop some of those obscure Rock and Roll Over songs in for a show or two.
For me, a diehard, I'd love to see a whole set of songs from '74 to '80, and not have ONE song from Alive!, Alive II, or Double Platinum. I think it would just be me, Coz, Eddie Trunk, and Sophie in the audience though.
That'd be a great show! Personally, the setlist has been extremely tired ever since the make-up came back on. I'd love a "deep cuts" tour. But, they don't have the balls to do that. I haven't seen a show since the "Farewell" tour. And, other than sometimes wishing I could have my daughter see them live, I have no desire to see them in concert anymore.
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I'd pay to see that. I've long said (probably somewhere here in this thread) that I wish Kiss would do the "Iron Maiden" thing, and do a tour of recent stuff, and a tour of a certain era of the band. Kiss sort of did that for a while (the first reunion was essentially the Love Gun tour/set, and they've touched on the Destroyer era set/costumes) but I wouldn't mind expanding that. The problem is, they've NEVER been a real "rarities" band, even if they did drop some of those obscure Rock and Roll Over songs in for a show or two.
For me, a diehard, I'd love to see a whole set of songs from '74 to '80, and not have ONE song from Alive!, Alive II, or Double Platinum. I think it would just be me, Coz, Eddie Trunk, and Sophie in the audience though.
That'd be a great show! Personally, the setlist has been extremely tired ever since the make-up came back on. I'd love a "deep cuts" tour. But, they don't have the balls to do that. I haven't seen a show since the "Farewell" tour. And, other than sometimes wishing I could have my daughter see them live, I have no desire to see them in concert anymore.
Respectfully, I don't think it's "balls", necessarily. It's business. They're still doing good business, and when I saw them last there were a LOT of people like me with their kids. My daughter was through the MOON for Rock and Roll All Nite and Detroit Rock City. I can guarantee you she would have been in the can for "Getaway" or "Let Me Know".
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They are touring the UK this year but as I saw them last time with essentially the same set, I'm going to pass.
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I think Kiss do OK with their setlists all things considered. I never go to the concerts so it doesn't really matter to me, but they seem to make room for at least one or two deeper cuts in place of the stuff they have to play. Flaming Youth last year was a cool surprise.
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Respectfully, I don't think it's "balls", necessarily. It's business. They're still doing good business, and when I saw them last there were a LOT of people like me with their kids. My daughter was through the MOON for Rock and Roll All Nite and Detroit Rock City. I can guarantee you she would have been in the can for "Getaway" or "Let Me Know".
I totally agree with the business comment. Actually, I meant "balls" in terms of intentionally breaking away from the standard setlist knowing it's probably not the best for business. That's pretty much what the Kruise is for these days. It's probably safe to say that the people willing to pay $1,000's for tix are the ones looking for the deeper cuts. Sadly, their standard concerts are not the place for that. Which is one of the reasons I've chosen not to go. I don't really need to hear RaRAN ever again.
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https://www.klassik78.com/
An album recorded by some KISS fans with the intention of sounding like a long lost KISS demo. Not bad...........
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https://www.klassik78.com/
An album recorded by some KISS fans with the intention of sounding like a long lost KISS demo. Not bad...........
:clap:
That is so awesome. The Gene and Paul voices are exact. I would be totally fooled. Did I miss a Peter voice? How in the world did you ever stumble upon that? I love the 8 track in the picture.
Speaking Of KISS, I bought The Ritz On Fire, another one of those radio broadcast bootlegs. It's the August 12, 1988 show from The Ritz in NYC. I had this on tape many years ago. This is a great capture of the band from that era. Bruce Kulick is amazing on this. Seems that dropped Bang Bang You (fine by me, one of the worst 80's tracks) and Reason To Live. No problem there either.
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I should've held onto it and made out as if I had a demo nobody else had for the show :lol
Ritz On Fire sounds cool. I agree re Bang Bang You but I always liked Reason To Live despite the cheese.....beautiful understated solo by Bruce.
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I haven't watched the link yet, but the setlist is amazing. I could do without Bang Bang You and Crazy Crazy Nights - they both Suck Suck Bad), but you take the good with the bad. Tears Are Falling is one of my favorite Kiss songs ever, so...
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Honestly I've never had a problem with Reason To Live. I think it has an awesome chorus.
I loved 80's KISS. I was very into them back then. I'm a huge Asylum guy. I think it's way underrated. Not as metal as Animalize, but it has some awesome tunes.
Tears Are Falling is one of my favorite Kiss songs ever, so...
See, as much as I love Asylum, I was never crazy about Tears Are Falling.
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I like Reason To Live. I love Tears Are Falling. Bang Bang You and Crazy Crazy Nights blow. Or suck. Whichever one we're using now.
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I never had a problem with Crazy Nights. I always felt it was one of their most "70's sounding" 80's tracks. Writing wise, not production wise.
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80's KISS really had zero radio presence here in Australia until Crazy Nights which charted well. So I lived with Killers (my very first album purchase around '82) for 6 years before my next KISS album. As far as I knew (and bear in mind I was 8yo when I bought Killers ) they weren't releasing albums.
Crazy,Crazy Nights charted pretty well and Turn On The Night also was on the video shows........on the building rooftop , can still remember it :lol Can't remember what I did yesterday though :\
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Turn On The Night is a great song!
What did you get after Killers?
Creatures? LIU?
It took me a long time to appreciate Lick It Up. When that came out, I was out of my KISS fandom, so there were a few years where I ignored them. I bought Animalize when it was released, but it wasn't until Asylum came out, where it totally clicked with me.
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Crazy Nights was my next purchase and then Hot In The Shade, Revenge etc......and only then did I work my way back to albums like Creatures,Asylum and Lick It Up. I can't recall why but in my early teens in 87-88 I was only just starting to flesh out my collection beyond a few standards and the record stores here likely didn't stock poorly charting albums like Asylum, Animalize etc.... I was only just discovering metal mags etc... too around that time so there was very limited information available.
During that period I was obsessed with Van Halen, Ozzy , Whitesnake and Malmsteen and had probably gone off KISS a little bit as I had played nothing but Killers from 82-85 (the only album I owned ) :lol
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During the LIU/Animalize/CN tours I was getting frustrated hearing the same old songs played. HITS was a breath of fresh air live.
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During the LIU/Animalize/CN tours I was getting frustrated hearing the same old songs played. HITS was a breath of fresh air live.
I agree. HITS followed the Paul solo tour, and I think it really opened his eyes and they seemed to reembrace their past.
BTW, I am making an 80's KISS CD for the car. Tough to narrow it down to 80 minutes. Listening to King Of Hearts now. Except for the horrific pre chorus, this is an A+ track. Everything about it is perfect. (except for the pre chorus)
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https://www.klassik78.com/
An album recorded by some KISS fans with the intention of sounding like a long lost KISS demo. Not bad...........
These sound like rejected demos for studio tracks from Kiss Alive II.
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You always manage to surprise me Tim - King Of Hearts is the last song I would've picked for you.
I could imagine you listening to "shining like a jewel tonight , love is gonna rule tonight" and giving it the stamp
(https://previews.123rf.com/images/koya79/koya791202/koya79120201046/12558145-stamp-sucks-Stock-Photo.jpg)
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It's better than "Read my body, are the letters big enough"
:facepalm:
I love Paul Stanley. And it wasn't always that way, but you have to take that corniness. There are so many cringeworthy lyrics in KISS tracks, but "shining like a jewel tonight, Love is gonna rule tonight" is actually pretty good.
It's the "When you touch me" prechorus that just about blows this song, but everything else about it is excellent. AS soon as the CD is burned I'll post the tracks.
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BTW, I am making an 80's KISS CD for the car. Tough to narrow it down to 80 minutes. Listening to King Of Hearts now. Except for the horrific pre chorus, this is an A+ track. Everything about it is perfect. (except for the pre chorus)
I'd be curious to see how many Gene songs end up on that 80's Kompilation. He wrote some truly awful stuff in the 80's. Definition of "mailing it in".
Is the "Ritz On Fire" bootleg the show that was broadcast on 102.7 WNEW? I bought that on cassette at a flea market back in '88. Always liked the sound of that show. But, I agree that the HITS tour was way better. I remember going to that show and them opening with "I Stole Your Love". What a great setlist that was!
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It's better than "Read my body, are the letters big enough"
The absolute WORST song ever written by KISS (excluding a few solo album songs). "Take Me Down Below" is pretty close.
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BTW, I am making an 80's KISS CD for the car. Tough to narrow it down to 80 minutes. Listening to King Of Hearts now. Except for the horrific pre chorus, this is an A+ track. Everything about it is perfect. (except for the pre chorus)
I'd be curious to see how many Gene songs end up on that 80's Kompilation. He wrote some truly awful stuff in the 80's. Definition of "mailing it in".
Is the "Ritz On Fire" bootleg the show that was broadcast on 102.7 WNEW? I bought that on cassette at a flea market back in '88. Always liked the sound of that show. But, I agree that the HITS tour was way better. I remember going to that show and them opening with "I Stole Your Love". What a great setlist that was!
But he had a couple in there that were decent...
I'm a fan of the last two songs from both Lick It Up and Animalize, (though "Young and Wasted" and "Burn Bitch Burn" are weak to me),"Trial By Fire" is AWESOME, and I really like "Hell Or High Water".
As for Paul, yeah, you can't really call out the "cheese" without limiting it to REAL cheese. Or cheese from a can. There isn't a Kiss record out there that doesn't have something (lyrically) to raise your eye brows to (I mean, "Love Gun"? Really?). It's just when it gets really over the top.
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So I went to make my KISS 80's Kompilation CD, but I realized I had forgotten The Elder and Unmasked. Plus I had trouble narrowing it down to 80 minutes, so I ended up making two 70 minute volumes.
Volume I covers Unmasked, The Elder, Killers, Creatures, and Lick It Up
Volume II covers Animalize, Asylum, Crazy Nights, and Hot In the Shade
Volume I Volume II
Creatures Of the Night King Of The Mountain
The Oath I've Had Enough
Tomorrow Secretly Cruel
I'm A Legend Tonight Thrills In The Night
War Machine I'll Fight Hell To Hold You
I Burn Bitch Burn
Dark Light King Of Hearts
Naked City Little Caesar
Young And Wasted I'm Alive
Danger Trial By Fire
Easy As It Seems Turn On The Night
Exciter Any Way You Slice It
Only You You Love Me To Hate You
Gimme More No No No
I Still Love You Under The Gun
Nowhere To Run Boomerang
And On The 8th Day My Way
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I'm a fan of the last two songs from both Lick It Up and Animalize, (though "Young and Wasted" and "Burn Bitch Burn" are weak to me),"Trial By Fire" is AWESOME, and I really like "Hell Or High Water".
I LOVE And On The 8th Day. I actually prefer Lonely Is The Hunter to Murder In High Heels, but neither is that great. Burn Bitch Burn isn't bad. At least it rocks.
I prefer Young And Wasted to Not For The Innocent and Fits Like A Glove.
Hell Or High Water isn't bad and just missed making Volume II.
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I had forgotten Unmasked.
(https://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17jrczi8f0w39jpg/original.jpg)
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I had forgotten Unmasked.
(https://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17jrczi8f0w39jpg/original.jpg)
A-fucking-men.
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Not a fan of the Ace songs on Unmasked? I was shocked that "Dark Light" was the only Ace entry.
I really like your Volume 2. The only change I would've made is switching out "Burn Bitch Burn" for "Betrayed" (better song, IMO, and keeping another Gene song on it). BBB is one cliche after another all song long.
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While I had my hard drive and blank CDs out, I figured I'd make a 70's Kompilation!
I left out some classics. I really wanted to keep it to one disc, and do I really need Duece, Cold Gin, RnR All Nite and Strutter on this?
These CDs are made to play on the car, to listen to tracks I wouldn't otherwise hear.
Anyway..
Detroit Rock City Flaming Youth
King Of the Night Time World C'mon And Love Me
I Want You Let Me Go, Rock n Roll
Anything For My Baby Makin' Love
Baby Driver Hotter Than Hell
I Stole Your Love Strange Ways
Rock Bottom Tomorrow And Tonight
Coming Home 100,000 Years
Hard Luck Woman Rocket Ride
Parasite Love Gun
Shock Me Black Diamond
Getaway
Tough to leave a couple tracks off like Do You Love Me, Sweet Pain, and Watchin' You.
I didn't know how to treat Dynasty. That definitely would've pushed it to two CDs. I didn't need that. But Dynasty, to me, stands alone anyway, much like Revenge does.
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Not a fan of the Ace songs on Unmasked? I was shocked that "Dark Light" was the only Ace entry.
I think the Ace songs on Unmasked are terrible. Talk about mailing it in. Compare to the 3 Ace songs on Dynasty, which are amazing. The Ace/Unmasked songs are real disappointments.
I really like your Volume 2. The only change I would've made is switching out "Burn Bitch Burn" for "Betrayed" (better song, IMO, and keeping another Gene song on it). BBB is one cliche after another all song long.
Thanks. Betrayed hasn't aged well for me. It has always felt like a cheap attempt to rob Deuce. I don't mind BBB. Like I said, it rocks pretty good. Other songs for that spot were Lonely Is The Hunter or Hell Or High Water.
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While I had my hard drive and blank CDs out, I figured I'd make a 70's Kompilation!
I left out some classics. I really wanted to keep it to one disc, and do I really need Duece, Cold Gin, RnR All Nite and Strutter on this?
Detroit Rock City Flaming Youth
King Of the Night Time World C'mon And Love Me
I Want You Let Me Go, Rock n Roll
Anything For My Baby Makin' Love
Baby Driver Hotter Than Hell
I Stole Your Love Strange Ways
Rock Bottom Tomorrow And Tonight
Coming Home 100,000 Years
Hard Luck Woman Rocket Ride
Parasite Love Gun
Shock Me Black Diamond
Getaway
Tough to leave a couple tracks off like Do You Love Me, Sweet Pain, and Watchin' You.
Yeah, I never have to hear RaRAN ever again. I really like that compilation. The only song I would've liked to have on this list is "She". I'd probably switch out HLW for that.
Just curious, is this all studio? "Black Diamond" is probably my favorite KISS song ever. Don't know if I like the studio or Alive! version better.
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I think the Ace songs on Unmasked are terrible. Talk about mailing it in. Compare to the 3 Ace songs on Dynasty, which are amazing. The Ace/Unmasked songs are real disappointments.
Thanks. Betrayed hasn't aged well for me. It has always felt like a cheap attempt to rob Deuce. I don't mind BBB. Like I said, it rocks pretty good. Other songs for that spot were Lonely Is The Hunter or Hell Or High Water.
[/quote]
I agree on the Ace stuff. Was just curious.
Yeah, come to think of it, "Hell Or High Water" would probably be better than "Betrayed" in my book.
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Yeah, I never have to hear RaRAN ever again. I really like that compilation. The only song I would've liked to have on this list is "She". I'd probably switch out HLW for that.
Just curious, is this all studio? "Black Diamond" is probably my favorite KISS song ever. Don't know if I like the studio or Alive! version better.
I made it all studio. It's so rare that I ever get a chance to hear the studio version of Black Diamond. I really like it.
I have never been a fan of She, even when I was a kid. I can make it through a live version from time to time. I thought about leaving off HLW, but I have to say that it was my first favorite KISS song, and I never not enjoy it.
But I love lesser tracks like Getaway, Baby Driver and Anything For My Baby. Now I don't have to load 6 original 30 minute Kiss CDs into my car and fumble with them just to hear a few tracks off of each.
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But I love lesser tracks like Getaway, Baby Driver and Anything For My Baby. Now I don't have to load 6 original 30 minute Kiss CDs into my car and fumble with them just to hear a few tracks off of each.
I'm down with that. With Dressed To Kill being my favorite album of theirs, I love "Getaway" and "Anything For My Baby". And, "Love Her All I Can" for that matter.
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Dynasty, to me, stands alone anyway
It should stand alone.
In a corner.
With Unmasked.
And think about what it's done.
It's borderline blasphemous to put Dynasty in the same sentence with Revenge!
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I'm surprised you feel that way, especially as an Ace fan.
It's borderline blasphemous to put Dynasty in the same sentence with Revenge!
(https://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/3747646.jpg)
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headasplode
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Dynasty, to me, stands alone anyway
It should stand alone.
In a corner.
With Unmasked.
And think about what it's done.
It's borderline blasphemous to put Dynasty in the same sentence with Revenge!
I love both those albums and Ace's songs are great. I'd take those on unmasked over Cold Gin any day.
Although I like Revenge I'm taking both Dynasty and Unmasked over it. With Creatures and LIU they are my go to KISS albums.
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Not a fan of the Ace songs on Unmasked? I was shocked that "Dark Light" was the only Ace entry.
I really like your Volume 2. The only change I would've made is switching out "Burn Bitch Burn" for "Betrayed" (better song, IMO, and keeping another Gene song on it). BBB is one cliche after another all song long.
Baby, wanna put my log in your fire place.
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While I had my hard drive and blank CDs out, I figured I'd make a 70's Kompilation!
I left out some classics. I really wanted to keep it to one disc, and do I really need Duece, Cold Gin, RnR All Nite and Strutter on this?
These CDs are made to play on the car, to listen to tracks I wouldn't otherwise hear.
Anyway..
Detroit Rock City Flaming Youth
King Of the Night Time World C'mon And Love Me
I Want You Let Me Go, Rock n Roll
Anything For My Baby Makin' Love
Baby Driver Hotter Than Hell
I Stole Your Love Strange Ways
Rock Bottom Tomorrow And Tonight
Coming Home 100,000 Years
Hard Luck Woman Rocket Ride
Parasite Love Gun
Shock Me Black Diamond
Getaway
Tough to leave a couple tracks off like Do You Love Me, Sweet Pain, and Watchin' You.
I didn't know how to treat Dynasty. That definitely would've pushed it to two CDs. I didn't need that. But Dynasty, to me, stands alone anyway, much like Revenge does.
BIG points for Parasite, Strange Ways, Makin' Love and Let Me Go Rock and Roll. But serious demerits for Baby Driver.
I have mad love for "She", studio OR live (even with the botched riff in the intro; I'm pretty sure it's one of the more obvious dubs on that record).
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Not a fan of the Ace songs on Unmasked? I was shocked that "Dark Light" was the only Ace entry.
I really like your Volume 2. The only change I would've made is switching out "Burn Bitch Burn" for "Betrayed" (better song, IMO, and keeping another Gene song on it). BBB is one cliche after another all song long.
Baby, wanna put my log in your fire place.
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
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Not a fan of the Ace songs on Unmasked? I was shocked that "Dark Light" was the only Ace entry.
I think the Ace songs on Unmasked are terrible. Talk about mailing it in. Compare to the 3 Ace songs on Dynasty, which are amazing. The Ace/Unmasked songs are real disappointments.
See, I love his songs on that record. Even "Torpedo Girl", which, lyrically is a disaster, but I LOVE that chorus. Just love it.
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The only version of She I really like is the 8-3-75 bootleg from Providence. But before that, I have just never been a fan.
"The power's always in her, When she takes off her clothes." :facepalm:
I think the Ace tunes from Unmasked are so mailed in. I generally love all Ace does, but after the genius of Hard Times, Save Your Love, and even his cover of 2000 Man, the unmasked tracks just don't stand up. Dark Light is still 10 times better than the Unmasked tunes.
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Two Sides of the Coin is the only thing I'll listen to from Unmasked. I could listen to MFTE all day, but Unmasked is just awful.
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I think Tomorrow is one of the best KISS songs, across all eras, ever made.
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I struggle to remember every single track in your lists Tim , but they feature most of my favourites and a few (good) surprises. You have a few songs in there that I thought I was the only fan of. Songs like Naked City , I'll Fight Hell To Hold You and (esp) My Way get bagged mercilessly by a lot of KISS fans but I like them - Naked City was my "go to track" for Unmasked. On the whole I don't think it's a great album though.
Great to see the Killers songs there. As I mentioned that was the only album I owned for the first 3 years of my musical journey , so those tracks mean a lot. Nowhere To Run could be close to my favourite song of theirs.
Cool story...........at the KISS Convention in Melbourne (1995)) they did a live acoustic set at the end and some signing etc...... During the acoustic set people started yelling out requests so I thought "Why not?" , caught Paul's attention and said "Nowhere To Run". He actually tried to do it - played the opening riff , first verse and chorus (with the odd blue) and then stopped ,saying he couldn't remember the rest. I daresay that is one of the only times that song has been performed live.
Actually they repeated it elsewhere afterwards (see vid below , basically exactly as I recall it) - I was responsible for this :lol The Conventions started in Australia and USA came after. I suppose it shows you how good Australia has been to KISS that they did that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGcDmvVL8Uo
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I didn't go when they did the acoustic tour. I seem to remember tickets were insanely expensive.
In the mid to late 80's, the New England KISS Kollectors put on a KISS Convention at the Holiday Inn in Providence each year. I think we went to at least two, maybe three of them. It was always a cool experience. I usually bought a couple of bootlegs at each, and looked through some cool stuff. One year Eric Carr made an appearance. This would've been March/April 1990 . I remember sitting in the lounge area and he was literally at the table behind us. he and his handlers were discussing the upcoming HOTS tour. I remember my friend had a cruise scheduled so he butted in and told Eric about it and not to play Providence at the time. Eric talked with us away from the crowd. he was totally cool.
I took two pics with him, but I was the heaviest I've ever been in my life and it's embarrassing to look at. The pics are long gone, though I'm sure I have the negatives in my basement.
I love Naked City. But I find Unmasked generally terrible. Easy As It Seems doesn't bother me too much. I kind of like it, as wimpy as it is.
Nowhere To run is awesome!
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I actually really dig Unmasked. Not as good as Dynasty, but I would probably take it over The Elder and a couple of the non-makeup 80s albums. Some really underrated tunes on there, such as Naked City and Tomorrow. I actually enjoy the whole first side. The second side starts to trail off but even then it's mostly OK imo.
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It's cool that it hits the spot. Hey, I love Asylum, though most KISS fans think it's pretty putrid.
But other than
Naked City and Tomorrow
there's not much else.
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:lol I like Asylum too, it was my intro to 80s Kiss. Not a great album, but pretty much all the Paul songs are top notch with some being among his all time best. Anyway You Slice It actually isn't too bad either.
Also, Is That You is awesome. Sounds great live on the Australia video.
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One thing that really boosts Asylum is that I like the Gene tracks, where on most KISS albums, I might like one and skip the rest. But Any Way You Slice It, Trial By Fire, and Secretly Cruel are all excellent. I even like Love's A Deadly Weapon, not withstanding those lyrics.
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It's has my favorite song by KISS in the 80's (Tears Are Falling) but Asylum is a weak album.
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It's has my favorite song by KISS in the 80's (Tears Are Falling) but Asylum is a weak album.
No way. How can you say that?
King Of the Mountain, I'm Alive, Any Way You Slice It, Trial By Fire, Secretly Cruel. Even Love's A Deadly Weapon and Who Wants To Be Lonely are decent. And the instrumental track to Radar For Love is awesome, though the lyrics absolutely blow!
But that album art. Now THAT is weak!
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You're nuts. Asylum's album art is awesome. You better not tell me you like the album cover for Riot's Fire Down Under.
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Narita is much better! :metal
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Johnny The Seal :metal
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King Of the Mountain is classic Kiss. Certain details notwithstanding (Eric Carr's drum style, the big background vocals), that could easily be on Love Gun.
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I really don't like Unmasked overall. Shandy and Naked city are great songs, and Easy as it seems isn't bad. The opening track is sort of listenable. The rest of the album is barely average, very bland and uninspired, making it my least favorite of the make-up era. I'd take The Elder over it, easily. Even Dynasty is better.
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It's has my favorite song by KISS in the 80's (Tears Are Falling) but Asylum is a weak album.
No way. How can you say that?
King Of the Mountain, I'm Alive, Any Way You Slice It, Trial By Fire, Secretly Cruel. Even Love's A Deadly Weapon and Who Wants To Be Lonely are decent. And the instrumental track to rRadar For Love is awesome, though the lyrics absolutely blow!
But that album art. Now THAT is weak!
I think at the time I was burnt out on KISS and for me that album was paint by numbers at the time for KISS. The tour added to it as well.
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The Asylum tour was my first KISS show. I remember the setlist was short and weak. They played Won't Get Fooled Again, and I'm thinking, give me another KISS song instead.
Anyway, reposting some pics from page 5 of this thread for those that may not have seen them.
Asylum Tour
December 22, 1985
Providence Civic Center
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/Kiss4.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/Kiss4.jpg.html)
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/Kiss3.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/Kiss3.jpg.html)
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/Kiss2.jpg) (https://s195.photobucket.com/user/TACPics/media/Kiss2.jpg.html)
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King Of the Mountain is classic Kiss.
It's a GREAT track. :metal
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I actually really dig Unmasked. Not as good as Dynasty, but I would probably take it over The Elder and a couple of the non-makeup 80s albums. Some really underrated tunes on there, such as Naked City and Tomorrow. I actually enjoy the whole first side. The second side starts to trail off but even then it's mostly OK imo.
I know I'm repeating (because it's all there for people to see) but I LOVE Unmasked. It's one of my favorite Kiss albums, and but for the biggest stinker in the Kiss catalogue (well, top five, with Dirty Livin', Hooligan, and a couple others)I actually like most every song.
I don't know; it's much maligned, but the "Dynasty through Lick It Up" run is one I go back to a surprising amount, given the chaos of the time.
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I don't know; it's much maligned, but the "Dynasty through Lick It Up" run is one I go back to a surprising amount, given the chaos of the time.
It's similar to Alice Cooper's run of Flush The Fashion-Special Forces-Zipper Catches Skin-Da Da. Some great tracks on those albums.
I remember when I presented my CD label of Zipper to him to sign, Alice was shocked that someone would even have the CD and he said he did not remember making it.
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I absolutely love Dynasty (sorry Coz), but Unmasked is the drizzling shits.
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Shandy and Naked city are great songs
And that would be the "one song" I mentioned before. Kiss got accused of being "disco" with IWMFLY, but for me, the cheesiest disco touch in their entire catalogue is that little guitar lick right after the "Tonight must last us forever..." line. Ugh. That and Paul's lower "Hold Me Touch Me (Make Me Gag Into My Soup)" voice ruins it for me.
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I think at the time I was burnt out on KISS and for me that album was paint by numbers at the time for KISS. The tour added to it as well.
Which is ironic, since that's what the cover looks like to me. Paint by numbers (though I like the album itself).
I remember when I presented my CD label of Zipper to him to sign, Alice was shocked that someone would even have the CD and he said he did not remember making it.
I love those stories; I had a similar experience when I met Gene, and I had the inserts from Alive! and Alive II with me. Paul was busy with the two hot blondes in front of me and (I guess out of character) Gene was standing there and we started talking and he went through the pictures with me. Amazing experience (that was when I first learned the Alive! cover was staged).
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I absolutely love Dynasty (sorry Coz), but Unmasked is the drizzling shits.
Disowned.
Seriously though, I do have Sure Know Something on my iPod. And I forgot about Tomorrow, from Unmasked. Half decent. But overall, both albums get two thumbs down. Hell, I'd take Hot in the Shade over either of them and that's an abortion of an album also.
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Yeah, the fanboy in me liked it at the time, but Unmasked is indeed the shits.
Dynasty is half decent, But very uneven. Also it's probably has that 'tainted' schisma because of 'I was made...' and the whole KISS goes commercial backlash. Kiss have never been anything BUT commercial, but that's for another time...
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And that would be the "one song" I mentioned before. Kiss got accused of being "disco" with IWMFLY, but for me, the cheesiest disco touch in their entire catalogue is that little guitar lick right after the "Tonight must last us forever..." line. Ugh. That and Paul's lower "Hold Me Touch Me (Make Me Gag Into My Soup)" voice ruins it for me.
While I don't agree with any of this, this made me laugh really hard. :rollin
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The Asylum tour was my first KISS show. I remember the setlist was short and weak. They played Won't Get Fooled Again, and I'm thinking, give me another KISS song instead.
Asylum Tour
December 22, 1985
Providence Civic Center
My first KISS show was a week earlier at Madison Square Garden. With Tommy Thayer opening w/ Black and Blue. Looking back on it, the set definitely was "short and weak". However, at the time, I was so thrilled to see them, that thought never entered my mind. Your seats were way better than mine.
And, that album art is hideous. I can only hope Gene and Paul must've been unavailable when it was time to proof the cover. Otherwise, I don't know what they were thinking. Talk about mailing it in!
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Yes Black n Blue opened.
We had good seats by the side of the stage, where I took the Gene/fire pic. There was an open area near the stage that remained open until the encore when they basically waved people on. We got right down front in quick order.
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I absolutely love Dynasty (sorry Coz), but Unmasked is the drizzling shits.
Disowned.
Seriously though, I do have Sure Know Something on my iPod. And I forgot about Tomorrow, from Unmasked. Half decent. But overall, both albums get two thumbs down. Hell, I'd take Hot in the Shade over either of them and that's an abortion of an album also.
Oh god no. HitS is the worst KISS album. I'd take Peter's solo album over it :omg:
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I absolutely love Dynasty (sorry Coz), but Unmasked is the drizzling shits.
Disowned.
Seriously though, I do have Sure Know Something on my iPod. And I forgot about Tomorrow, from Unmasked. Half decent. But overall, both albums get two thumbs down. Hell, I'd take Hot in the Shade over either of them and that's an abortion of an album also.
Oh god no. HitS is the worst KISS album. I'd take Peter's solo album over it :omg:
Hahaha, that's funny. :)
Even PETER says his solo album is the worst Kiss album. :)
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Put me in the Peter solo album over HITS camp. At least Peter's album is short. HITS feels like a never ending gauntlet of misery.
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Wow. Unmasked, Dynasty, AND Peter's solo album over HitS. It's like bizarro Kiss World.
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Only album worse than HITS is Carnival of Souls
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I may think HITS is that bad but no album hits the level of bad as the Peter Criss solo album.
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HITS isn't Hotter than Hell or Destroyer, I'll give you that, but I'll at least listen to it now and again. I like Hide Your Heart, Rise To It, and a couple others. There is literally not one song on Peter Criss or CoS that I feel like I have to hear again. MAYBE "Childhood's End".
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When I need my fix of HITS song, I watch the Detroit show from that tour. It has pretty much all the HITS songs that matter. Also one of the greatest Kiss videos ever recorded.
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HITS isn't Hotter than Hell or Destroyer, I'll give you that, but I'll at least listen to it now and again. I like Hide Your Heart, Rise To It, and a couple others. There is literally not one song on Peter Criss or CoS that I feel like I have to hear again. MAYBE "Childhood's End".
There are some good songs on it but too many poor ones. This is the album Gene really phoned it in. I don't mind most of his 80s output but even Paul hot in on the act. read My Body is his worst song by far.
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HITS isn't Hotter than Hell or Destroyer, I'll give you that, but I'll at least listen to it now and again. I like Hide Your Heart, Rise To It, and a couple others. There is literally not one song on Peter Criss or CoS that I feel like I have to hear again. MAYBE "Childhood's End".
Funny, I really like CoS. "Master and Slave" is an awesome song. I feel it has some of Gene's strongest song writing in the entire non-makeup era. I would've loved if Toby Wright had gotten the opportunity to finish the album properly. Granted, it's not a traditional KISS album (i.e. - no cock rock). But, I consider it to be a solid mature (grungy) rock album.
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You and I are the only ones around here that like it.
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You and I are the only ones around here that like it.
It does not exist in my KISS universe. Even though I own it.
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That's for most. It does not compare to the classics and Revenge but I do like it.
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There is a small but passionate group of fans for the CoS stuff. Same with Elder. I've never seen the same level of fandom for other bands' black sheep albums. Personally I think CoS was a huge misstep with hardly any redeemable moments. Elder is ok.
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I didn't see it as a misstep at all. It was a progression. Somwtines bands try something different. Sometimes it works (Destroyer), and sometimes it doesnt (The Elder).
It doesn't mean they can't put out good music after.
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COS is proof that KISS is better left in Paul's hands.
I love Childhood's End. But I also like Master & Slave and I Will Be There.
I Confess is quite interesting.
And I like I Walk Alone.
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I think in Paul's hands with Gene engaged.
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I think in Paul's hands with Gene engaged.
That's when you get Revenge. When Paul steps aside and lets Gene call the shots, you get COS.
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Well Revenge is a top 3 KISS album for me so you won't get any argument from me.
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Well Revenge is a top 3 KISS album for me
Same here, Brother! :metal
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When strippers run in high heels to you because you're singing "I Just Wanna" to them while they are dancing to it, it better be up there as a top album.
Coz, eat your heart out.
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I didn't see it as a misstep at all. It was a progression. Somwtines bands try something different. Sometimes it works (Destroyer), and sometimes it doesnt (The Elder).
I don't mind them trying something different but, like you said, if it doesn't work it doesn't work. I thought CoS was a misstep in the sense that they tried to go all out on the dark/heavy side of Revenge, but completely missed what made that album so great. The hooks, melodies, energy.
Revenge is my favorite Kiss album BTW.
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When strippers run in high heels to you because you're singing "I Just Wanna" to them while they are dancing to it, it better be up there as a top album.
Coz, eat your heart out.
Take it Off was one of the songs we used to play when my band hosted wet t-shirt contests at a bar we always played, so I'm with you on that.
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Happened to me 3 times. I was jacked that the strippers loved KISS. They were singing the lyrics while the legs were east and west.
I was pleased.
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I didn't see it as a misstep at all. It was a progression. Somwtines bands try something different. Sometimes it works (Destroyer), and sometimes it doesnt (The Elder).
It doesn't mean they can't put out good music after.
See, now, I love The Elder. LOVE IT. I detest "Mr. Blackwell" - that song can go to hell - but the rest? That whole first side, if it wasn't laden with the baggage of the "concept" is killer Kiss. I LOVE "Only You" and "Under The Rose". I think Gene was WAY into this concept and put his heart and soul into it, and you can tell by the writing. It's also a great SOUNDING record. Bob Ezrin - even coked out of his tits - knows how to make good sounding records.
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I didn't see it as a misstep at all. It was a progression. Somwtines bands try something different. Sometimes it works (Destroyer), and sometimes it doesnt (The Elder).
I don't mind them trying something different but, like you said, if it doesn't work it doesn't work. I thought CoS was a misstep in the sense that they tried to go all out on the dark/heavy side of Revenge, but completely missed what made that album so great. The hooks, melodies, energy.
Revenge is my favorite Kiss album BTW.
The difference with CoS is that it runs afoul of the Kiss ethos. Even The Elder is a concept about what Kiss stands for; be your own man, forge your own destiny, bang chicks and don't apologize to anyone. It's cheese, but high quality cheese, and Kiss do it better than just about anyone.
CoS isn't a bad album - it's not as if Paul forgot how to be one of the greatest frontmen in rock, or Bruce forgot how to play guitar - but it's a bad KISS album. There's a difference.
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It wouldn't be a bad album for someone like AiC, but it's a shit Kiss album.
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The Elder is LOADED with great tunes. many of them stand up and would easily fit into a live set. The Oath and I should have been concert staples, at least I, which I would take any day over I Love It Loud.
Dark Light kills the Ace Unmasked tracks.
And Only You is awesome.
I'm not sold on the production though. I think it hurts the songs.
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I can't imagine at the time it was released that The Elder was overly popular with the Kiss crowd, but it seems like over time people have gotten into it. I enjoy listening to it once in awhile and have no problem with it. But besides Jungle, I couldn't get into COS much at all
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I think in Paul's hands with Gene engaged.
That's when you get Revenge. When Paul steps aside and lets Gene call the shots, you get COS.
I wouldn't say Paul stepped away. His material was pretty strong for the album, as was Gene's. Once again, I like the album. Unfortunately, once the reunion became a possibility, both Paul and Gene unplugged. From that point, it was mainly Toby Wright and Bruce Kulick. Then, it totally fizzled out before it could get a proper finishing.
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I can't imagine at the time it was released that The Elder was overly popular with the Kiss crowd, but it seems like over time people have gotten into it. I enjoy listening to it once in awhile and have no problem with it. But besides Jungle, I couldn't get into COS much at all
The Elder was mainly a "last straw" for the original KISS fans. First came the solo albums. Then, Dynasty. Then, Unmasked. And, finally, The Elder. It was a (not-so) gradual progression from being the biggest rock band in the world to being a bunch of guys in makeup making pop and disco music and concept records. By that point, the original fans had grown a bit and, if they still liked hard rock, they'd moved on from KISS to Van Halen, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motley Crue and any number of other bands giving them the rock that KISS wasn't. They turned it around with Creatures of the Night. Unfortunately, it was too, little too late. Great album that didn't sell worth a shit. Which prompted the makeup removal. They needed to do something to get people talking about them again.
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I think in Paul's hands with Gene engaged.
That's when you get Revenge. When Paul steps aside and lets Gene call the shots, you get COS.
I wouldn't say Paul stepped away. His material was pretty strong for the album, as was Gene's. Once again, I like the album. Unfortunately, once the reunion became a possibility, both Paul and Gene unplugged. From that point, it was mainly Toby Wright and Bruce Kulick. Then, it totally fizzled out before it could get a proper finishing.
My understanding was that it was Gene's suggestion to the direction of the album, and Paul, just happy to have Gene engaged, acquiesced. I don't think this was the album Paul truly envisioned as the follow up to Revenge.
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I love The Elder. I can see how it killed the band after a couple of years of a downward spiral. It's hard for any band to retain that much success as a lot of those fans will be casual and will move on to the next popular thing. I can see why they did what they did at that time but after the failure of the disco era they needed a great rock album and they came out with TE, about as far away from what they should have done.
It's strange that Gene in particular is made out to be this great forward thinker, but it was Ace that had the right idea. He was the one pushing for the return to their roots.
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Looking at the timeline, I can see why The Elder was hated at the time. Personally I don't love it or hate it. After hearing the band's strong negativity on it I was actually shocked at how inoffensive the whole thing was. Apart from some of the weirder tracks, the bulk of the album is musically standard Kiss. On any other album 'I' would've probably been a klassic. The band treats the album as if even entertaining the idea was a mistake, but I actually think the mistake was not going all out on it. It seems more like a test run for a concept album than the real thing. But part of that is probably because nobody was really steering the ship.
It's strange that Gene in particular is made out to be this great forward thinker, but it was Ace that had the right idea. He was the one pushing for the return to their roots.
I think Gene has a lot of good ideas but he needs someone (Paul, Bob Ezrin) to focus them, otherwise you get a mess.
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I think in Paul's hands with Gene engaged.
That's when you get Revenge. When Paul steps aside and lets Gene call the shots, you get COS.
I wouldn't say Paul stepped away. His material was pretty strong for the album, as was Gene's. Once again, I like the album. Unfortunately, once the reunion became a possibility, both Paul and Gene unplugged. From that point, it was mainly Toby Wright and Bruce Kulick. Then, it totally fizzled out before it could get a proper finishing.
My understanding was that it was Gene's suggestion to the direction of the album, and Paul, just happy to have Gene engaged, acquiesced. I don't think this was the album Paul truly envisioned as the follow up to Revenge.
I like Revenge, though I don't think it's their best album by any means, but if their follow up was more in keeping with Revenge (or even if it was Sonic Boom, which has some really good songs) they would have crushed it.
I agree; for a band that gets so much airtime for being "forward thinkers", they only seem to really do that when their back is to the wall. Alive! was a last ditch effort. Creatures was a last ditch effort. Revenge was a sort of last ditch effort. The reunion was a last ditch effort. I think they do best when they do what Kiss does best. Even Kiss by the numbers is better than Kiss via the Bee Gees, or Kiss via Alice In Chains.
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So apparently Gene is doing some solo shows.
Here is his setlist from St. Louis the other night. Awesome set!
Deuce
Radioactive
Nothin' to Lose
Calling Dr. Love
Almost Human
Cold Gin
I Love It Loud
Got Love For Sale
Parasite
Plaster Caster
Charisma
Watchin' You
Domino
Christine Sixteen
Johnny B. Goode
Let Me Go, Rock 'N' Roll
Rock and Roll All Nite
https://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=589064
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Some fine choices there - Almost Human, Charisma :metal
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I brought up my little sister as a manic KISS fan and Charisma is her favourite song bar none.
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Charisma was the one that jumped out at me too. Dynasty is one of my favorite Kiss albums anyway.
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That would've been my piss break song. :lol But a good set nonetheless.
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Last I heard, Gene's singing voice was totally blown. Has that changed?
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Well, let's be fair, it's not like it was ever particularly excellent in the first place.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf4BYcHFd7I
Why does he have three guitarists? :lol
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Well, let's be fair, it's not like it was ever particularly excellent in the first place.
He's had his moments, but in general, he was never the strongest singer. His voice isn't completely shot like Paul's voice is now, just the steady progression of age. Gene's vocal style has always been more about the attitude and gruff, so he can get away with it more so than Paul.
That setlist is great, and it shows how many good Gene songs there are. There was that one KISS show where Paul was taken to hospital and they performed as a three piece, playing non-Paul songs, that also showed how many great songs they have to choose from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf4BYcHFd7I
Why does he have three guitarists? :lol
It's cool to finally hear that live, I just wish Gene had memorized the lyrics beforehand. :lol
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There was that one KISS show where Paul was taken to hospital and they performed as a three piece, playing non-Paul songs, that also showed how many great songs they have to choose from.
I never heard about that. When was that?
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Okay, I've already established myself as a Kiss fan boy, but I love Gene's voice. I don't really like when he sings too high, like on some of the non-makeup stuff ("Young and Wasted" is the best example I can think of) but his midrange stuff like on "Goin' Blind" or "Love 'Em and Leave 'Em", I can listen to all day long.
I saw them in... 2014 I think it was (the Def Leppard tour) and he sounded very good. I actually said to my daughter something to the effect of "Joe Elliot's voice isn't what it was, Paul's voice is definitely not what it was, but Gene still sounds pretty good".
Is this solo tour a one off or shows? What size venue? I'd go see that show in a heartbeat.
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There was that one KISS show where Paul was taken to hospital and they performed as a three piece, playing non-Paul songs, that also showed how many great songs they have to choose from.
I never heard about that. When was that?
7/27/07 - Soboba Casino Arena, San Jacinto, CA:
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/kiss/2007/soboba-casino-arena-san-jacinto-ca-13d5a5e1.html
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There was that one KISS show where Paul was taken to hospital and they performed as a three piece, playing non-Paul songs, that also showed how many great songs they have to choose from.
I never heard about that. When was that?
This is the show.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/kiss/2007/soboba-casino-arena-san-jacinto-ca-13d5a5e1.html
Beaten to it by Cozmo. :tup
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lol ninja'd
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Can't win 'em all. :lol
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Someone should start a drinking game every time Gene says live, "OH YEAH!"
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There was that one KISS show where Paul was taken to hospital and they performed as a three piece, playing non-Paul songs, that also showed how many great songs they have to choose from.
I never heard about that. When was that?
July 27, 2007, at a casino in San Jacinto, California. Paul had heart palpitations and they admitted him to the hospital. Setlist:
1. Deuce
2. Cold Gin
3. Calling Dr. Love
4. Christine Sixteen
5. Nothin' to Lose (Eric Singer lead vocals)
6. I Love It Loud
7. Goin' Blind
8. Watchin' You
9. She
10.Parasite
11. God of Thunder
12. Let Me Go, Rock 'N' Roll
13. Black Diamond
14. Rock and Roll All Nite
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lol double ninja'd
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Wow. That's when you hang it up. Double ninja. :)
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:lol Kiss nerds. :heart
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ACK!
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Not a HUGE fan of KISS (although my brother is), but my favorite album is probably Revenge.
What do I win?
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Style points. Revenge is a bitchin' album.
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:metal
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Is this solo tour a one off or shows? What size venue? I'd go see that show in a heartbeat.
It's a small tour he's doing in conjunction with the Wizard World Cons going on across the country. He's not playing at the Cons but at small venues nearby. I think there are 3 or 4 left.