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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: KevShmev on March 17, 2016, 08:50:59 PM
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Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt team up for ‘The Invention Of Knowledge’
Anderson / Stolt, the brand new duo of legendary Yes vocalist & singer/songwriter Jon Anderson and progressive rock veteran Roine Stolt (The Flower Kings, Transatlantic), have announced the release of their collaborative album ‘The Invention Of Knowledge’ for 24th June 2016 via InsideOut Music.
Jon Anderson had this to say: “.....Music is always the driving force in my life...working with such a wonderful musician as Roine Stolt made the creation of this album very unique,we are very excited with the release of 'Invention of Knowledge'.“
Roine Stolt adds: “It is not aiming at being new Yes music; just new music, modern and classical, rock and ethno, tribal and orchestrated, grooving and floating. Hopefully in the true spirit of “progressive” - leaning forward, surprising and also comforting with familiar run-arounds.
We’ve been “inventing” as we go along - Jon is an endless source of new ideas. We’ve been bouncing ideas back and forth for months and as a result there are probably dozens of versions of these songs. It’s been a very interesting and rewarding time and the result is just insanely detailed.”
InsideOut label-head Thomas Waber comments: “I have been talking to Jon for ages about making an album of ‘Yes music’ – as Jon calls it - and Roine seemed like the perfect guy for him to work with. I am really happy that it has finally happened and I am also thrilled with the material they have come up with. I think it will please a lot of fans!”
The idea came to life swiftly off the back of a performance from Roine’s band Transatlantic, and Jon Anderson on the Progressive Nation At Sea Cruise in 2014, and was initially instigated by InsideOut Music label boss Thomas Waber. The duo set about crafting new music in the spirit of early epic works such as ‘Tales From Topographic Oceans’, ‘Awaken’ & ‘Olias Of Sunhillow’, but giving it a modern twist.
Written & recorded over the course of 1 and a half years, the tracks have been in a state of constant change as Roine and Jon swapped & refined ideas by sending tracks to each other via the internet. In March 2015, an ensemble was put together by Roine to realise the music live in the studio. Joining him there was Tom Brislin (who played on the Yes Symphonic tour) & Lalle Larsson on keys, Jonas Reingold & Michael Stolt on bass and Felix Lehrmann on drums. The sessions were also bolstered by appearances from Daniel Gildenlöw, Nad Sylvan, Anja Obermayer, Maria Rerych and Kristina Westas who all provided backing vocals.
The full track-listing for the album is as follows:
• Knowing 17:45
• Everybody Heals 13:20
• Invention Of Knowledge 23:10
• Know 11.20
Keep an eye out for more news in the coming weeks!
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Woah.
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I just saw this on the Yesfans boards and came here to post it. Very cool!
Same thing with prettier background (https://www.insideoutmusic.com/newsdetailed.aspx?IdNews=16848&IdCompany=8)
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This has to be a dream come true for Roine Stolt, considering Jon Anderson was one of his two favorite prog giants of the 70s (Peter Gabriel being the other).
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InsideOut label-head Thomas Waber comments: “I have been talking to Jon for ages about making an album of ‘Yes music’ – as Jon calls it - and Roine seemed like the perfect guy for him to work with. I am really happy that it has finally happened and I am also thrilled with the material they have come up with. I think it will please a lot of fans!”
Mmm, something seems wrong with that. If I wasn't aware that Jon used to be (and nowadays isn't) in Yes, when reading that, I would think Jon = Yes. Kind of insulting towards Chris, to mention one. It's like - 'Oh yeah, this is Yes music.', while there's still a band called Yes making their own music without Jon.
Or am I reading too much?
Still, good to see a high-profile collaboration like this. The second track should be called "Everybody Knows" :P
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Yeah, I think you are reading too much into it.
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My post about this from a day ago is still on page one... :(
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=46453.0
Ah well, I guess no one wanted to talk about it then. :P
Love the album cover art though.
-Marc.
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Yes was Jon Anderson's main vehicle for many, many years. He's done solo stuff, and collaborations with various others (notably Vangelis, but more recently with Jean-Luc Ponty, for example), but there's a certain type of music he thinks of as "Yes music" and it's really more about the approach to the music and spirit of it than literally what band is making it. The Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, Howe project also happened while there was a band out there called Yes, and Jon was even in that band (the "Rabin era lineup"). But he didn't think of the music that that band was making as "Yes music". He put together ABWH because he wanted to make "Yes music" when the actual band Yes wasn't. And most people agree that the ABWH album is much closer to 70's Yes than Big Generator was.
So I suppose you could see it as a slap against the current band Yes, but (1) it isn't really meant to be, it's just the way Jon thinks of the music and probably is the easiest way to describe it, and (2) even if it is a slap, they kinda deserve it. Heaven and Earth is really weak IMO. If Jon gets together with some other guys and says the music is "Yes music", that's fine with me. With Roine, Daniel Gildenlow, Tom Brislin, and others on board, it will probably be better than what the current Yes is doing.
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Holy shit! This could be good. :metal
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Yes was Jon Anderson's main vehicle for many, many years. He's done solo stuff, and collaborations with various others (notably Vangelis, but more recently with Jean-Luc Ponty, for example), but there's a certain type of music he thinks of as "Yes music" and it's really more about the approach to the music and spirit of it than literally what band is making it. The Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, Howe project also happened while there was a band out there called Yes, and Jon was even in that band (the "Rabin era lineup"). But he didn't think of the music that that band was making as "Yes music". He put together ABWH because he wanted to make "Yes music" when the actual band Yes wasn't. And most people agree that the ABWH album is much closer to 70's Yes than Big Generator was.
So I suppose you could see it as a slap against the current band Yes, but (1) it isn't really meant to be, it's just the way Jon thinks of the music and probably is the easiest way to describe it, and (2) even if it is a slap, they kinda deserve it. Heaven and Earth is really weak IMO. If Jon gets together with some other guys and says the music is "Yes music", that's fine with me. With Roine, Daniel Gildenlow, Tom Brislin, and others on board, it will probably be better than what the current Yes is doing.
I swear, I was typing out a similar response, with the "spirit of Yes" and ABWH mentions, but deleted it, not wanting to go off on too big a tangent in response to SebastianPratesi's post.
But yeah, what you said is spot-on. :tup :tup I seriously doubt Chris Squire would have any problem with this if he were still alive.
My post about this from a day ago is still on page one... :(
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=46453.0
Dang, I didn't see that. I glanced at posts from yesterday, knowing the news had been announced only hours earlier, didn't see any thread on it, and figured it was safe. How was this known on the 15th??
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This is an automatic buy for me.
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So I suppose you could see it as a slap against the current band Yes, but (1) it isn't really meant to be, it's just the way Jon thinks of the music and probably is the easiest way to describe it, and (2) even if it is a slap, they kinda deserve it. Heaven and Earth is really weak IMO. If Jon gets together with some other guys and says the music is "Yes music", that's fine with me. With Roine, Daniel Gildenlow, Tom Brislin, and others on board, it will probably be better than what the current Yes is doing.
OK, fair points there. I agree Heaven and Earth is weak (although "Believe Again" is a beautiful song in my opinion).
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Hype is on
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"Believe Again" is indeed a beautiful song. There's a lot of nice stuff on Heaven and Earth, and... not much else. Yes has always been about mixing it up, really taking you on a journey, sometimes over the course of the album and sometimes within a single song. Yes has the heavy rocking stuff, the really beautiful and spiritual stuff, the instrumental mastery and the prog and everything else, all rolled into one. Heaven and Earth isn't bad, but it feels like it only has one side to it, the mellow side. At the very least, they could have come up with more variety.
Now, I say this without having heard a single note from The Invention of Knowledge, but I would bet money that it's going to be more diverse, more interesting, and just plain better than what "the real Yes" has been doing lately. I'm glad Yes is still around; they're still my favorite band and probably always will be. But they and Jon parted ways a while ago now, and with Chris Squire gone, the odds of Jon rejoining Yes have gone down a bit. So this is hopefully more music of the type I'd rather hear. Roine has always been all about the old-school prog, so him teaming up with Jon and bringing some of The Flower Kings along sounds like a pretty good match.
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My post about this from a day ago is still on page one... :(
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=46453.0
Dang, I didn't see that. I glanced at posts from yesterday, knowing the news had been announced only hours earlier, didn't see any thread on it, and figured it was safe. How was this known on the 15th??
Jon Anderson posted a video on his facebook page, citing updates on various projects and dropped the bombshell about his project with Roine Stolt, giving name and release date information. Roine later posted on his FB about people now posting "rumors" about projects that weren't officially announced yet. Cut to less than a day later, the final reveal from them with full artwork and track list and times. I wonder if everything was revealed because Jon announced it early by mistake, or if it was planned all along? Guess we'll never know.
Oddly enough, much of this was already guessed at quite awhile back when Jon had revealed he was working with a Swedish guitarist friend on a project, and Roine had said he was in the studio with Tom Brislin working on something secret. Not many fans had pieced the two together, but in hindsight, it really makes sense.
If Jon couldn't get Yes back to play Yes music, getting the 3 of the Flower Kings together was the next best thing, especially for four epics on a single CD!
-Marc.
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This is very exciting. Can't wait for it.
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Now, I say this without having heard a single note from The Invention of Knowledge, but I would bet money that it's going to be more diverse, more interesting, and just plain better than what "the real Yes" has been doing lately. I'm glad Yes is still around; they're still my favorite band and probably always will be. But they and Jon parted ways a while ago now, and with Chris Squire gone, the odds of Jon rejoining Yes have gone down a bit. So this is hopefully more music of the type I'd rather hear. Roine has always been all about the old-school prog, so him teaming up with Jon and bringing some of The Flower Kings along sounds like a pretty good match.
Could not agree more (except Yes is not my favorite band, more like top 7 or 8). The Flower Kings sound Yes-ish at times anyway, so this is a perfect marriage. :tup :tup
Jon Anderson posted a video on his facebook page, citing updates on various projects and dropped the bombshell about his project with Roine Stolt, giving name and release date information. Roine later posted on his FB about people now posting "rumors" about projects that weren't officially announced yet. Cut to less than a day later, the final reveal from them with full artwork and track list and times. I wonder if everything was revealed because Jon announced it early by mistake, or if it was planned all along? Guess we'll never know.
Oddly enough, much of this was already guessed at quite awhile back when Jon had revealed he was working with a Swedish guitarist friend on a project, and Roine had said he was in the studio with Tom Brislin working on something secret. Not many fans had pieced the two together, but in hindsight, it really makes sense.
If Jon couldn't get Yes back to play Yes music, getting the 3 of the Flower Kings together was the next best thing, especially for four epics on a single CD!
10-4. Very cool.
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This is cool. Must check this out.
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semantical:
"Invention of Knowledge" v "The Invention of Knowledge"
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I didn't even notice that, but now that it's pointed out, it bugs me.
If a title starts the article "The", it's fairly common and usually acceptable to drop it when informally discussing the work. I've heard The Dark Side of the Moon simply called Dark Side of the Moon so often that I'll bet some people don't even know what the correct title is.
But adding "The" when there isn't one seem to me a greater transgression. The name of the band is Eurythmics, not "The" Eurythmics, for example. That kind of thing.
The album title is Invention of Knowledge. (https://www.insideoutmusic.com/media/news/large/635937958856657655.jpg)
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Roine's press release has a "The" in there. ???
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Disappointing. But I'm sure Roine didn't write the press release himself.
(https://www.insideoutmusic.com/media/news/large/635937958856657655.jpg)
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Probably. I changed the thread title, since like you said, it looks better that way.
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And all is right with the world again. :yarr
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Should be interesting to see a) how good Anderson's voice still sounds, and b) how much lead singing Stolt does at all. Given the classic yes vibe they went for, I suspect there will be a fair amount of vocal harmonies.
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It will be cool to hear how their voices blend.
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This should be good! Looking forward to checking this out.
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Very interresting... this could be really good
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Pretty excited for Roine. He's got to love this.
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Yeah, Roine oughta be hyped as fuck for this, and so am I, this should be great! I've recently been thinking about what he's doing atm, and then thdey drop this bomb, fantastic!
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I know it's wrong, but I'm still disappointed the cover isn't done by Roger Dean. :lol Whenever I think of Jon's voice or Yes-sounding music, I just need a Roger Dean world to go along with it. ;D
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Roine's a pretty lucky guy considering he's been touring with Steve Hackett for, I think, about or over a year now, and now has an album due out with Jon Anderson and his fellow Flower Kings (well, two of them, three if you count his brother).
Unfortunately, this means that he's likely not had much time preparing a new Flower Kings album. Then again, Tomas is supposedly busy with Crime Of The Century, Jonas has had his new Karmakanic album in the works, and who know what Hasse has been up to (a new Musical Companion album would be quite welcome though!). Hopefully The Flower Kings get a chance to reconvene this year as they haven't had an album out since 2013. It'd be a shame if they went on ANOTHER five year hiatus (after the one they went on from 07-13, between The Sum Of No Evil and Banks Of Eden).
-Marc.
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Meant to post in here a few days ago, but just wanted to say, I'm very excited for this. Really tough to imagine that this will be any worse than pretty good, and at its best it could be insanely good.
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Should be interesting to see a) how good Anderson's voice still sounds, and b) how much lead singing Stolt does at all.
Anderson's voice was never good, and Stolt's voice is annoying.
Who's with me?
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Both are acquired tastes IMO. Roine is a good example of someone with a not so good voice compensating with a great delivery (most of the time). I think the most recent thing I've heard Anderson sing is the last Yes album he did, which has to be over ten years old by now. I remember thinking his voice aged decently though.
I'm excited for this, seems like a good pairing.
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Unfortunately, this means that he's likely not had much time preparing a new Flower Kings album. Then again, Tomas is supposedly busy with Crime Of The Century, Jonas has had his new Karmakanic album in the works, and who know what Hasse has been up to (a new Musical Companion album would be quite welcome though!). Hopefully The Flower Kings get a chance to reconvene this year as they haven't had an album out since 2013. It'd be a shame if they went on ANOTHER five year hiatus (after the one they went on from 07-13, between The Sum Of No Evil and Banks Of Eden).
True, but Roine, for me, is kind of like Steven Wilson in that he often has his hand in so many projects that even he isn't focusing on whatever his "main one" is at the moment, odds are that it is still going to be to my liking. Having said that, it is good to see Roine working with a good vocalist this time around (as opposed to that guy he worked with on Agents of Mercy...ugh).
I know it's wrong, but I'm still disappointed the cover isn't done by Roger Dean. :lol Whenever I think of Jon's voice or Yes-sounding music, I just need a Roger Dean world to go along with it. ;D
Haha, I hadn't thought of that. :lol :lol
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Should be interesting to see a) how good Anderson's voice still sounds, and b) how much lead singing Stolt does at all.
Anderson's voice was never good, and Stolt's voice is annoying.
Who's with me?
I LOVE Anderson's voice; the problem for me is that you have about a 50-50 shot of hearing him singing something epic and grand, like "dream on, on to the heart of the sunrise!" or something inane and banal about "Shirley" being "strung out on crack time" or almost anything on "Open Your Eyes". And the REAL problem for me is that it seems like in the last ten years or so, the ration of "crack time" to "sunrise" is more like 70-30.
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Perhaps, but who was writing the music on those songs in the last 10 years? With Roine Stolt likely doing the majority of the writing on this record, I am guessing the melodies will be closer to sunrise than crack time. ;)
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CRACK TIME
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Perhaps, but who was writing the music on those songs in the last 10 years? With Roine Stolt likely doing the majority of the writing on this record, I am guessing the melodies will be closer to sunrise than crack time. ;)
This is a good point.
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Perhaps, but who was writing the music on those songs in the last 10 years? With Roine Stolt likely doing the majority of the writing on this record, I am guessing the melodies will be closer to sunrise than crack time. ;)
In the video Jon released on FB the day before the official news of this album dropped, Jon mentioned the music was stuff he was writing with friends from all over the place over some time, so I'd say the majority of the BASIC writing was Jon's, but I'm sure Roine (and band) probably embellished a lot, or added their own flowery flair to things, but I doubt Roine would've changed TOO much of the album's original writing, so we'll see.
It's nice to have Tom Brislin on board, though, so I'm looking forward to hearing him on this!
-Marc.
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Jon Anderson & Roine Stolt team up for ‘The Invention Of Knowledge’
Anderson / Stolt, the brand new duo of legendary Yes vocalist & singer/songwriter Jon Anderson and progressive rock veteran Roine Stolt (The Flower Kings, Transatlantic), have announced the release of their collaborative album ‘The Invention Of Knowledge’ for 24th June 2016 via InsideOut Music.
Jon Anderson had this to say: “.....Music is always the driving force in my life...working with such a wonderful musician as Roine Stolt made the creation of this album very unique,we are very excited with the release of 'Invention of Knowledge'.“
Roine Stolt adds: “It is not aiming at being new Yes music; just new music, modern and classical, rock and ethno, tribal and orchestrated, grooving and floating. Hopefully in the true spirit of “progressive” - leaning forward, surprising and also comforting with familiar run-arounds.
We’ve been “inventing” as we go along - Jon is an endless source of new ideas. We’ve been bouncing ideas back and forth for months and as a result there are probably dozens of versions of these songs. It’s been a very interesting and rewarding time and the result is just insanely detailed.”
InsideOut label-head Thomas Waber comments: “I have been talking to Jon for ages about making an album of ‘Yes music’ – as Jon calls it - and Roine seemed like the perfect guy for him to work with. I am really happy that it has finally happened and I am also thrilled with the material they have come up with. I think it will please a lot of fans!”
The idea came to life swiftly off the back of a performance from Roine’s band Transatlantic, and Jon Anderson on the Progressive Nation At Sea Cruise in 2014, and was initially instigated by InsideOut Music label boss Thomas Waber. The duo set about crafting new music in the spirit of early epic works such as ‘Tales From Topographic Oceans’, ‘Awaken’ & ‘Olias Of Sunhillow’, but giving it a modern twist.
Written & recorded over the course of 1 and a half years, the tracks have been in a state of constant change as Roine and Jon swapped & refined ideas by sending tracks to each other via the internet. In March 2015, an ensemble was put together by Roine to realise the music live in the studio. Joining him there was Tom Brislin (who played on the Yes Symphonic tour) & Lalle Larsson on keys, Jonas Reingold & Michael Stolt on bass and Felix Lehrmann on drums. The sessions were also bolstered by appearances from Daniel Gildenlöw, Nad Sylvan, Anja Obermayer, Maria Rerych and Kristina Westas who all provided backing vocals.
The full track-listing for the album is as follows:
• Knowing 17:45
• Everybody Heals 13:20
• Invention Of Knowledge 23:10
• Know 11.20
Keep an eye out for more news in the coming weeks!
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Woah.
Cool. My dad is a huge Yes/Jon Anderson fan. His birthday is June 3rd so I will have to give him a notice that this will be his present when it is released later that month.
He is usually behind on new album news because he doesn't use the internet. Will be a nice surprise.
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Artwork bugs me. The head isn't exactly in the middle. :mehlin
It's interesting to see two musicians from different generations collaborate, though I'm not that familiar with Roine Stolt's work or any Yes material with Jon outside of the 60s / 70s stuff.
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Artwork bugs me. The head isn't exactly in the middle. :mehlin
It's interesting to see two musicians from different generations collaborate, though I'm not that familiar with Roine Stolt's work or any Yes material with Jon outside of the 60s / 70s stuff.
In my opinion, there is some great Yes work from the '80s/'90s, plus some nice songs with Vangelis as well. If you are interested, I'd recommend:
With Yes:
-"Hearts" (1983)
-"Almost Like Love" (1987)
-"Where Will You Be" (1994)
-"That, That Is" (1996)
-"Love Shine" (1997)
-"Homeworld" (1999)
With Vangelis:
-"I'll Find My Way Home" (1981)
-"He Is Sailing" and "Horizon" (1983)
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Artwork bugs me. The head isn't exactly in the middle. :mehlin
It's interesting to see two musicians from different generations collaborate, though I'm not that familiar with Roine Stolt's work or any Yes material with Jon outside of the 60s / 70s stuff.
Oddly enough, Roine is only 12 years younger than Jon, with the former turning 60 this September and Jon turning 72 in October. Roine actually had a major prog band in the 70's with Kaipa, though they weren't really well-known outside of Europe, or even Sweden, but I wouldn't know as I wasn't alive back then! :lol
However, the Wiki for Roine states:
"In 1974 he became the guitarist in Kaipa, a professional progressive rock band, he was 17 years old at that time, the group made three successful albums and toured more than 100 gigs a year, including national TV and radio performances in Scandinavia. These Kaipa albums are now reissued worldwide and are often regarded as the premier Scandinavian symphonic rock albums of the seventies."
So he did have some fame back in the 70's, though I'm sure the influences from British Prog were apparent in the rest of Europe.
I always think it's funny that while many fans associate Roine's first foray into prog with The Flower Kings or even Transatlantic, both "newer" bands from the 90's, they often forget how much longer he's been in the music game, though many fans don't seek out Swedish-language prog from the 70's very often, and his 80's solo albums aren't quite prog at all.
This is my most anticipated new-group release of the year, which is going to be tough considering how many albums are coming out from bands I already love (Tiles, Haken, Big Big Train, and Frost*, all with long-awaited and highly-anticipated releases).
-Marc.
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This is my most anticipated new-group release of the year, which is going to be tough considering how many albums are coming out from bands I already love (Tiles, Haken, Big Big Train, and Frost*, all with long-awaited and highly-anticipated releases).
-Marc.
I know just Haken out of them. I still have a lot to learn. :lol
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Artwork bugs me. The head isn't exactly in the middle. :mehlin
It's interesting to see two musicians from different generations collaborate, though I'm not that familiar with Roine Stolt's work or any Yes material with Jon outside of the 60s / 70s stuff.
In my opinion, there is some great Yes work from the '80s/'90s, plus some nice songs with Vangelis as well. If you are interested, I'd recommend:
With Yes:
-"Hearts" (1983)
-"Almost Like Love" (1987)
-"Where Will You Be" (1994)
-"That, That Is" (1996)
-"Love Shine" (1997)
-"Homeworld" (1999)
With Vangelis:
-"I'll Find My Way Home" (1981)
-"He Is Sailing" and "Horizon" (1983)
OMG, nothing like recommending songs by Yes that most would agree are far down on the list of good Yes songs, even by post-1970s standards. :P :lol
Enigmachine, whatever you do, do NOT listen to Love Shine or Almost Like Love early on. Yes has tons of songs from 1980 onward far better than both.
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Agreed.. Endless Dream, Shoot High Aim Low, Lift Me Up, are much better YES songs. However, SebastionPratesi's list is still pretty darn good!
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I would never recommend someone to listen to Lift Me Up, such an uninspired bubble gum pop number. Whereas Almost Like Love is worth listening too, but that tastes ;D
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Enigmachine, whatever you do, do NOT listen to Love Shine or Almost Like Love early on. Yes has tons of songs from 1980 onward far better than both.
No need for the warning, because that's not how I listen to music. In time, I will check out the later Yes stuff album-by-album in chronological order.
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With 80's and 90's Yes you almost have to go in chronological order; otherwise it's a little too schizophrenic.
I know for me, in the context of the rest of the album "Lift Me Up" IS relatively "bubble gum pop" (though let's be fair: there is NO pure "bubble gum pop" in the Yes catalogue). But I made a compilation of "YesWest" and pulled the Rabin songs from Onion and in the context of the rest of the YesWest stuff, it fits in really nicely, and isn't nearly as sterile. It's the drums; you put White's bombast next to Bruford's subtlety, and of COURSE it sounds like "POP".
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I would never recommend someone to listen to Lift Me Up, such an uninspired bubble gum pop number. Whereas Almost Like Love is worth listening too, but that tastes ;D
Lift Me Up is a great song, don't listen to the prog snobs. I enjoy Yes West (Rabin Era) material more than classic Yes, and I love classic Yes. Rabin added a higher energy to the band and complemented Jon's vocals and Chris's harmonies. Btw, I'm kind of a prog snob, but not always.
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Can people give me their opinion on all Yes eras? I want to know what the general consensus is here.
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All Yes is worthwile! Their least accessible albums are Tormato and Open Your Eyes, IMHO. Their newest albums without Jon Anderson are not the same either.
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Can people give me their opinion on all Yes eras? I want to know what the general consensus is here.
Banks Era ( - 1970): so-so British rock; some good moments (Sweet Dreams, The Prophet) but more bluesy than "prog"
First Prog Era (1971-1974): Some will argue this, because The Yes Album is very different than, say, Relayer, but this is the classic era of a classic Prog Rock band. Most of these songs are the basis for setlists to this very day, and it is not a coincidence that both the "Full Album Showcases" and the Steven Wilson remasters/remixes come from this era.
First Schizophrenic Era (1977-1981): Wakeman returns, and they release my favorite album of all time by any band, Going For The One. Unfortunately, it was only one, because the followup, Tormato, was patchy and ultimately led to Anderson and Wakeman leaving. Howe-Squire-White continued with Drama (a FINE album) but it was clearly time for transformational change.
Rabin Era (1982-1994): It's really two eras, because the much-maligned "ABWH" and "Onion" came out about three quarters of the way through, but since Rabin and Squire (Squire is my definition of "Yes") didn't really part I'm keeping it together. Perhaps not the actual high point, but certainly by far the most consistent era of the band. You will find just as many that say "90210 is the best album here!" as you will "Talk is the best album here!". Talk is very underrated, and is a watershed album for both the band and generally, as it is one of the first albums to use computers as a recording device. Apparently Rabin was actually in touch with APple engineers writing code in real time to get the album produced.
Second Prog Era: (1994 - 1997): the "reunion" of the "Going For The One" band, yielded the excellent "Keys to Acsension" and it's sequel. Must listening.
Second Schizophrenic Era: (1997-2001): I say 2001, but it went much longer, until Anderson left in 04-05 timeframe (one of the beefs was the lack of studio output). Some will disagree, but with a different (or no) keyboard player each album this era is really a subjective one. For me, other than Magnification (and even then, only really the title track) this era is dreck.
Post-Anderson Era: (2011-Present): I say 2011, but it's earlier, since Anderson left/was fired around '04-'05. I personally like Fly From Here (I view it as a sequel to Drama, which is a good thing) but not convinced about Heaven and Earth. The band is a shell of their former selves, with most songs at a much slower tempo, and much sparser in instrumentation. Except for the phenomenal (and I mean, PHENOMENAL) "Into The Storm" - written with Rick Wakeman's son, Oliver - very little approaches the full rock muscle and power of their mid-70's heyday.
I like something from all of it except the Second Schizophrenic Era, but my favorites are the First Prog Era, the First Schizophrenic Era (I like Tormato, though I recognize it's flaws - Circus of Heaven and Arriving UFO - objectively), and the Rabin Era.
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Not bad, Stadler. Here's my take, obviously written at the same time as yours:
Early Years
1969 Yes
1970 Time and a Word
Better than average late-60's stuff. More than pop, less than prog. Many hints of the greatness to come. Probably more for completists and/or folks who get into 70's Yes and want to know how it all started.
The Main Sequence
1971 The Yes Album
1972 Fragile
1972 Close to the Edge
1974 Tales from Topographic Oceans
1974 Relayer
1977 Going for the One
With the addition of Steve Howe on the third album and Rick Wakeman on the fourth, Yes was launched into the stratosphere. They didn't invent the side-long epic, but they took it to the next level with four on one album and six total across three consecutive albums. This is generally considered the prime of the band, and the prime of progressive rock in general by many.
Transition
1978 Tormato
1980 Drama
Tormato had the same lineup as most albums from the main sequence, but the band was running out of steam, the 70's and 70's prog were nearing the end of their heyday, and Yes was being pulled in different directions. It was an unfocused album of mostly shorter songs, and while it has its supporters, it is generally regarded as one of Yes' lesser works. Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman both left after Tormato, opening the door for The Buggles to join for Drama, considered a step up by most Yesfans, but people hung up on Jon Anderson don't seem to like it.
The Rabin Era
1983 90125
1987 Big Generator
1994 Talk
A very different band, originally Cinema and started by Trevor Rabin, but became Yes under studio pressure to capitalize on the name. Much better than average pop, and still hints of prog, this is the most commerically successful lineup, but generally considered inferior artistically to the 70's works.
Sidesteps
1989 Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe
1991 Union
Jon Anderson formed Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman & Howe because he wasn't really getting off on RabinYes. ABWH is a return to (Yes) form, and Yesfans argue endlessly about whether or not it's a Yes album. When ABWH went to make their second album, the group was already splintering and they had trouble coming up with enough material, so some suit came up with the idea to add some leftover RabinYes tunes and promote it as the Union of the two Yesfactions. They fooled almost no one, but the album isn't bad. On the downside, both Yes and ABWH finished self-destructing before it was done, leaving Jon Anderson and producer Jonathan Elias to try to finish the album. With no one available for overdubs, half the studio musicians in California have "additional musician" credits on this album. It still isn't bad; you just never know who you're listening to.
Return of the Classic Lineup
1996 Keys to Ascension
1997 Keys to Ascension 2
Two double CDs, each with both studio and live material. There's actually only a single CD worth of studio material total, but it's pretty good and there are two new epics. The studio tracks are also repackaged as Keysstudio, a weird name that makes no sense if you don't know the history, but most of Yes doesn't make sense anyway. The live tracks came from a three-night reunion show, but are heavily overdubbed.
Everything Since
1997 Open Your Eyes
1999 The Ladder
2001 Magnification
2011 Fly From Here
2014 Heaven & Earth
Yes changed members so much that there are rarely two albums in a row with the same lineup, and never more than two. In 1997, the "classic" lineup had already broken up again before Keys to Ascension 2 came out, and Open Your Eyes, the new album from the next lineup, came out only weeks later. Since then, the lineup has continued to fluctuate, with founding member and primary lead vocalist Jon Anderson leaving after 2001's Magnification. This isn't really an "era" as such, and the quality varies wildly from album to album, and even from song to song.
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WOW. I'm surprised (and a little proud, because you clearly know your Yes) that they are so close. Nice!!!!
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Our styles are very different, Stadler, but I find that I agree with you more often than not, including most things having to do with music. I too am impressed at how close our lists came out, even though they have different standards and approaches.
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Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?
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Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?
I think there are slight differences between the songs on the two Keys' albums and the studio compilation. There's an extended intro to Children of the Light I think.
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Orbert, great post! However, you left out the "Talk" album. It was a strong return to Yes West form with Rabin and Anderson back in the line-up. Talk is maybe my favorite Yes album of all time. :coolio
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Talk was included with The Rabin Era. The problem is that at the time, there were two bands out there -- one actually called Yes but in many people's minds not the "real" Yes, and ABWH which was probably closer to "real" Yes (that is, 70's-style Yes) -- so I created the Sidesteps category. But those "eras" overlap.
I considered including a bit more history, about how after Union there was going to be an actual album with all eight members participating, but Bruford wanting nothing to do with it, Howe stuck around a bit longer but lost interest after the suits spent over two years and not reaching a deal, and Wakeman was still keen to be in it (having wanted to work with Rabin for a long time) but Phil Carson from Victory Records only wanted "the 90125 lineup". There are rare promotional materials with the six-member lineup named, but when Talk came out, Wakeman wasn't on it. Victory Records went belly-up shortly after, so Talk didn't get much promotion. That's why most agree that it's probably the best of the three RabinYes albums, but sold the fewest units. But the post was getting pretty ridiculous as it was, so I cut it all out.
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Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?
I think there are slight differences between the songs on the two Keys' albums and the studio compilation. There's an extended intro to Children of the Light I think.
Correct. "Children of the Light" originally had three parts, but the first section, a Wakeman solo, was cut when Wakeman left the band prior to the album's release. They insist that it was not out of spite, but the suite is oddly unbalanced without it. The instrumental intro ("Lightning") balanced the instrumental outro ("Lifeline") nicely, with both framing the song "Children of Light".
Keystudio presents the track in its original form, with all three parts. Other than that, it's the seven studio tracks from the two albums. And yes, I recommend it over getting both Keys to Ascension releases.
Actually, it may have been a timing consideration. Remember that originally, CDs only held 74 minutes of music, and if there was a plan at some point to release the studio material as a single disc, it would have been just a bit too long. By the time Keystudio came out, the maximum length of a CD had been increased to 80 minutes. Keystudio is 74:21 altogether.
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Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?
I think there are slight differences between the songs on the two Keys' albums and the studio compilation. There's an extended intro to Children of the Light I think.
Correct. "Children of the Light" originally had three parts, but the first section, a Wakeman solo, was cut when Wakeman left the band prior to the album's release. They insist that it was not out of spite, but the suite is oddly unbalanced without it. The instrumental intro ("Lightning") balanced the instrumental outro ("Lifeline") nicely, with both framing the song "Children of Light".
Keystudio presents the track in its original form, with all three parts. Other than that, it's the seven studio tracks from the two albums. And yes, I recommend it over getting both Keys to Ascension releases.
Actually, it may have been a timing consideration. Remember that originally, CDs only held 74 minutes of music, and if there was a plan at some point to release the studio material as a single disc, it would have been just a bit too long. By the time Keystudio came out, the maximum length of a CD had been increased to 80 minutes. Keystudio is 74:21 altogether.
To expand further, the original Keys To Ascension 2 version of "Children Of Light" had a first verse that is cut from the Keystudio version, replaced with Wakeman's "Lightning" intro. The lyrics for that cut verse are pretty much repeated later in the song, but if you're a completionist like me, you slash up the two versions of the song to open with "Lightning" and end it with the opening of the original version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoVFli8z1K0
This is the original Keys 2 version, and at 35 seconds in is where the Keystudio version's lyrics come in, missing the first verse completely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7QpqVDlhcQ
This is the Keystudio version with Wakeman's "Lightning" as the intro. It lasts for about 56 seconds before going into the pre-verse part of the 2nd verse.
My personal cut that makes the most of both versions runs a total of 7:01, longer than either version of the song that was officially released.
In addition to all of that, the material for the Keys sessions was originally going to be called "Know", which is homophonic pun on the band's name - "Yes" releases "Know" ("No") - but the idea was eventually given up. When news of Invention Of Knowledge came out, seeing the track list made me think of this immediately, wondering if Jon was happy to finally use "Know" somewhere, even if it wasn't for a Yes album.
-Marc.
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Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?
I think there are slight differences between the songs on the two Keys' albums and the studio compilation. There's an extended intro to Children of the Light I think.
Correct. "Children of the Light" originally had three parts, but the first section, a Wakeman solo, was cut when Wakeman left the band prior to the album's release. They insist that it was not out of spite, but the suite is oddly unbalanced without it. The instrumental intro ("Lightning") balanced the instrumental outro ("Lifeline") nicely, with both framing the song "Children of Light".
Keystudio presents the track in its original form, with all three parts. Other than that, it's the seven studio tracks from the two albums. And yes, I recommend it over getting both Keys to Ascension releases.
Actually, it may have been a timing consideration. Remember that originally, CDs only held 74 minutes of music, and if there was a plan at some point to release the studio material as a single disc, it would have been just a bit too long. By the time Keystudio came out, the maximum length of a CD had been increased to 80 minutes. Keystudio is 74:21 altogether.
To expand further, the original Keys To Ascension 2 version of "Children Of Light" had a first verse that is cut from the Keystudio version, replaced with Wakeman's "Lightning" intro.
I didn't realize that! I've listened to the Keystudio version a few times, but once the vocals start, I assumed it was the same from that point forward.
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Should I listen to Keystudio instead of the Keys to Ascention duo if I don't care about the live stuff? btw I already know about and have listened to the band from the debut to Drama. How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?
I think there are slight differences between the songs on the two Keys' albums and the studio compilation. There's an extended intro to Children of the Light I think.
Correct. "Children of the Light" originally had three parts, but the first section, a Wakeman solo, was cut when Wakeman left the band prior to the album's release. They insist that it was not out of spite, but the suite is oddly unbalanced without it. The instrumental intro ("Lightning") balanced the instrumental outro ("Lifeline") nicely, with both framing the song "Children of Light".
Keystudio presents the track in its original form, with all three parts. Other than that, it's the seven studio tracks from the two albums. And yes, I recommend it over getting both Keys to Ascension releases.
Actually, it may have been a timing consideration. Remember that originally, CDs only held 74 minutes of music, and if there was a plan at some point to release the studio material as a single disc, it would have been just a bit too long. By the time Keystudio came out, the maximum length of a CD had been increased to 80 minutes. Keystudio is 74:21 altogether.
To expand further, the original Keys To Ascension 2 version of "Children Of Light" had a first verse that is cut from the Keystudio version, replaced with Wakeman's "Lightning" intro.
I didn't realize that! I've listened to the Keystudio version a few times, but once the vocals start, I assumed it was the same from that point forward.
I hadn't realized it until a few years ago when I noticed the first words of both versions were not the same, let alone the first verses! It took a bit of A/B'ing for me to realize that the first verse of the Keys 2 version was missing, so I took it upon myself to make a "complete" version with all its parts. I like the slightly-longer version, and it makes one of my favorite albums a bit longer, which isn't a bad thing!
-Marc.
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Can people give me their opinion on all Yes eras? I want to know what the general consensus is here.
How would you guys rank everything from 90125 onwards?
I rank '90s Yes very highly. In fact, that's how I discovered the band - 10 years ago through the Talk album, which is great to me. The Ladder too - much beautiful music there, and it was a sort of soundtrack during a difficult time in my life. To answer your 2nd question - these are my 5 favourite post-90125 albums:
1. Talk
2. The Ladder
3. Keys To Ascension
4. Open Your Eyes
5. Heaven & Earth
As for the other eras, I like some songs/albums from the '70s as well - "Time And A Word", "The Revealing Science Of God" and "Turn Of The Century" in particular - but that's about it. I'm not too crazy about '70s Yes - in fact, I've never listened to Fragile or Drama in full. I do like the sound/mix of their '70s output, though.
Now that I think about it, I find it curious that there's no founding member in the band at the moment.
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Can people give me their opinion on all Yes eras? I want to know what the general consensus is here.
1969-1970: good stuff early on, but not really essential unless you become a diehard.
1971-1975: their creative peak, on all levels.
1977-1980: the uneven "we're not sure what is really going on" era. Produced both some great and crappy stuff.
1983-1994: the pop rock era: mostly really good to great.
1996-2001: the return to prog era; some good stuff, some meh stuff, some really good stuff.
2011-present: the clinging to life era. Nothing here notable at all.
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Can people give me their opinion on all Yes eras? I want to know what the general consensus is here.
1969-1970: good stuff early on, but not really essential unless you become a diehard.
1971-1975: their creative peak, on all levels.
1977-1980: the uneven "we're not sure what is really going on" era. Produced both some great and crappy stuff.
1983-1994: the pop rock era: mostly really good to great.
1996-2001: the return to prog era; some good stuff, some meh stuff, some really good stuff.
2011-present: the clinging to life era. Nothing here notable at all.
You forgot one-
2001-2011: The "Let's do a lot of tours and release a lot of live albums and DVDs to fans who will buy anything" Era
-Marc.
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I find it curious that there's no founding member in the band at the moment.
For any other band, that would indeed be a curiosity. For Yes, maybe not. Chris Squire was the only person to play in every version of Yes and on every album, so with his passing, there are no original members left. But we're talking about a band that's been around nearly 50 years. Peter Banks has also passed and Bill Bruford is retired, so the only possibilities are Jon Anderson and Tony Kaye. Anderson has said that he'd love to rejoin Yes, but his actions speak otherwise. They waited for him for most of the 00's, first because he wanted some time off, then he got sick, then he wanted some more time off, then the next time they asked him what was up, he couldn't do it because he was going on a solo tour. That was the last straw as far as Howe and Squire were concerned. Tony Kaye will likely never return. He's busy with Circa, something of a Yes offshoot and in some ways a better band than Yes currently.
But the "no founding members" thing may be overrated anyway. Yes members have constantly come and gone over the years. Kaye left, came back, and left again. Wakeman has been in and out at least three times, Howe at least twice. Alan White has been with them over 40 years though, and Steve Howe joined the first time nearly 45 years ago. They may not be original members, but they've been in Yes more years than most bands even exist. This is Geoff Downes' second stint with Yes, and if Billy Sherwood succeeds Chris Squire as many presume, it will be his second time as well.
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Excellent points. Granted, I think Yes is on fumes creatively at this point, and it kind of sucks to see them limping to the finish line like this, but Howe and White are about as big a core (alive) members as you can get (Anderson being the other), and they are both still in the band, so, yeah.
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Shouldn't we move this discussion into the Yes-thread?
As far as the eras go I have little to add, only that I really like the Rabin albums and rate them as high as some of the classics. Maybe because my first exposure to Yes was Owner Of A Lonely Heart and 90125. I think for people who come from the classic era and then hear 90125, it is different.
This is probably true for all bands that have changed their style dramatically over time (like Genesis and others). The point of time when you come to know and love a band plays a big role I think for what material you favour.
And concerning the founding members, I think Steve Howe, Alan White and Rick Wakeman will always be considered core members of the band, even if they weren't founding members. So a hypothetical band with all three together will probably considered Yes, regardless of who is singing and playing bass.
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1983-1994: the pop rock era: mostly really good to great.
1996-2001: the return to prog era; some good stuff, some meh stuff, some really good stuff.
I'm not saying Kev is wrong, or is being unfair, but it's not really the whole story either. It's a tough putt to convince me that somehow "Open Your Eyes" is more "proggy" than either Big Penetrator (whose second side is four songs that originally started as an album side suite) or Talk (with one 15 minute epic in 15/8 time, and only six other songs on the 60 minute record).
I think to label the Rabin years as "pop rock" is only concentrating on one facet of that band, and does some of the rest of the time an injustice.
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Yeah, it's almost like Trevor Rabin finally realized "Hey, this is Yes. I can get proggy and experimental and all that." And he has the chops for it. Each of the three RabinYes albums gets more proggy.
Also, Yes had radio-friendly hits back in the 70's, and they started just as the band was really embracing the prog, so it's also fair to say that Yes has always been about mixing prog and pop, in (widely) varying amounts.
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Agreed, there are some fantastic compositions in the Rabin Era. Endless Dream being the masterpiece of those three albums. Shoot High Aim Low, and Hearts are other good examples. I also like his influence on the Union album, Miracle of Life, Lift Me Up, Saving My Heart etc..
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Eh, I was speaking in general terms with those labels; no need to quibble over them. :P
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But quibble we must, lest we be mistaken for that which is other than DTF.
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For any other band, that would indeed be a curiosity. For Yes, maybe not.
Oh, yeah! I know of their long history of in-out-in-out members. In fact, something I've read recently (which is related to your 2nd paragraph) is that Chris wanted the band to carry on indefinitely into the future, even if 'classic' members also leave/die/are replaced by their children (like Wakeman did).
I sometimes wonder if that will eventually hold true, and in 100 years there will still be a Yes band. Maybe, the Yes we've known until now will be just a fraction of their history.
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I think that would be neat, but they have to be thinking forward, and having someone like Billy Sherwood replace Chris Squire would be going backwards. Get some young talent in there who can write songs and move the band into the future.
But quibble we must, lest we be mistaken for that which is other than DTF.
LOL, so true! :lol
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BurningShed has put up their pre-order page : https://www.burningshed.com/store/progressive/product/494/7555/
The tracklist is further expanded upon, featuring that 3 of the album's 4 pieces actually have subsections/movements, and may possibly be even tracked that way on the album.
I - Invention of Knowledge:
1. Invention (9:41)
2. We Are Truth (6:41)
3. Knowledge (6:30)
II - Knowing:
4. Knowing (10:31)
5. Chase and Harmony (7:17)
III - Everybody Heals:
6. Everybody Heals (7:36)
7. Better by Far (2:03)
8. Golden Light (3:30)
9. Know... (11:13)
And their blurb about it:
Two Progressive masters at their uncompromising best.
The Invention Of Knowledge is a collaboration between ex-Yes singer Jon Anderson and Flower Kings supremo Roine Stolt, and also features Jonas Reingold, Felix Lehrmann, Tom Brislin, Nad Sylvan and Daniel Gildenlow.
Featuring four epic tracks over its 65 minute duration.
Comes with A5 art print.
Pre-order for 24th June release.
-Marc.
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Aww! How annoying! I hate it when bands split multi-movement tracks like that! For one thing, it will provoke endless debate about whether it's one single song or a suite of three separate songs (see the eternal 6DOIT debate). If they intend it as a single piece of music, put it on one track. That way there's no debating the issue; it's one song, end of.
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I'm with you 100%. This is "is ITPOE one or two songs?" all over again.
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I get why there is some contention here with regards to that "debate", but I never understood why people couldn't grasp the difference between tracks and songs. A song could be multiple tracks, but still be one song.
Personally speaking, I'll probably rip the CD and merge the individual tracks into their four total pieces and use those for personal listening purposes.
-Marc.
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Would you want The Whirlwind to be one track? (It is, on the live Whirld Tour CD)
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tbh if I get this, I'd probably just use a program to combine the tracks. Not a big deal for me.
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I'll probably rip the CD and merge the individual tracks into their four total pieces and use those for personal listening purposes.
Yep. Not a big deal. A little more work, I guess, but not a dealbreaker by any means.
And sometimes, maybe once in a great while, it might be handy to skip to a particular section. Like to check something out, confirm that it sounds like something someone said, whatever. For general listening, though, I always just listen to the whole song, usually the whole album.
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Official teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuzdnlqWMqI
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edit of Invention released :tup
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/jon-anderson-roine-stolts-invention/
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Sounds exactly as I thought it would.
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Sounded nice. Hoping for good things from this!! :tup :tup
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Doesn't immediately blow me away, but it's very nice. Looking forward to this
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I thought this was coming out tomorrow (June 24th). Amazon and iTunes are both saying July 8th. What the hell?? :censored
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I didn't remember the exact date, but I thought it was towards the end of this month, too. Apparently it's been delayed.
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Bummer. I was looking forward to getting it this weekend. :facepalm:
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Still says it is released tomorrow over here on Amazon UK. How peculiar ???
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My local store in Sydney has it in stock and on sale already.
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Folks on the Yesfans boards are posting pictures of theirs which came in the mail today. Maybe it's only delayed in the U.S.
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For what it's worth, promo press PDF file mentioned the release date was 24th June.
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Is it the 24th in Sydney? Time zones and datelines confuse me.
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Yup it is, +10 hr GMT
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Seems to be an U.S. thing. Amazon Germany has it in stock.
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That's really weird, you guys. Thankfully I pre-ordered mine from Reingold Records, so hopefully I get it early next week!
-Marc.
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So yeah, looks like it's out today in Europe, but we have to wait two more weeks here in the States. This sucks. :censored
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Listened through this yesterday for the first time. Enjoyed it for sure - especially the parts that sound like a cousin to some stuff from Topographic! - but the music side of the equation didn't really live up to what I associate with 'prog made by Roine Stolt' because it seems primarily based in piano and light guitar. The whole record is basically a ballad! So it's tough to sit through with so few texture changes and so little bombast, something that never happens with The Flower Kings (though they do still turn bland a little too often these days too, I realize).
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something that never happens with The Flower Kings (though they do still turn bland a little too often these days too, I realize).
Really? I felt that most of BoE and DR were pretty varied, with some great heavy/hard moments, and a lot of nice soothing, ballad moments, all throughout. Heck, BoE starts out with a fairly heavy epic, even right at the beginning it's pretty hard-sounding. Even before those two albums, TSoNE was pretty bombastic, though I think having Zoltan back kind of helped with that.
-Marc.
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I don't think bland means not varied, and in that regard, I kind of see what he means in regards to Desolation Rose, which was a mix of great stuff and, well, some bland moments. Even the best songs on that record seem to have some bland moments. I like the record, but it's not one I revisit a lot.
Now...Banks of Eden is another story. The more time passes, the more I realize that is one of their best albums. Phenomenal from start to finish (and even moreso if you count the bonus tracks).
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I don't think bland means not varied, and in that regard, I kind of see what he means in regards to Desolation Rose, which was a mix of great stuff and, well, some bland moments. Even the best songs on that record seem to have some bland moments. I like the record, but it's not one I revisit a lot.
Now...Banks of Eden is another story. The more time passes, the more I realize that is one of their best albums. Phenomenal from start to finish (and even moreso if you count the bonus tracks).
I guess I interpreted "bland" to mean more along the lines of something like the last Yes album. Oddly enough, when BoE came out, I didn't really latch on to it. Nothing really grabbed me, either on the main album or the bonus disc, except the opening epic. After DR came out, I went back to revisit BoE and found that I enjoyed it more. I guess I needed time away from it for a bit, and I think I like it a BIT more than DR anyway, but DR is still pretty good, and in the bigger picture of all TFK studio albums, I'd say it's at least better than A&E and The Rainmaker for me, even with all of the bonus tracks.
Either way, I hope all of this time apart from TFK will give Roine a good chance to write some great stuff for their next album, but that's neither here nor there.
As for Invention Of Knowledge, I cannot wait to receive my pre-order from Reingold Records, and it seems many fans are slowly getting theirs across the world.
-Marc.
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Well, not to get into a TFK ranking contest :lol;, but I think Desolation Rose is definitely better than The Rainmaker and The Sum of No Evil (easily their two least best), and that's it. Adam & Eve has its flaws, but there is something oddly charming about it. And it has some really great songs on it (Love Supreme, Timelines and Driver's Seat), something I cannot really say about the bottom three albums, although I am pretty high on Serious Dreamers, and DR does have a few songs that were thisclose to being great. The Sum of No Evil is a nice listen, especially since it sounds great (something about Zoltan's drumming made every album he was on sound awesome sonically), but none of the songs are close to being one of their best or even great.
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heh, that's still my favorite of theirs. :lol
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This album is fantastic. That is all I have to say.
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Looks like it is available now here in the States...at Radiant Records...for 18 bucks. :facepalm: :facepalm:
Ah, the Radiant Record Rip-Off never fails. :lol :lol
I'll wait and get it for much less next week. :coolio
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Same here!
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I got it for around £10 (around $13 I think) on a pre-order from HMV. How come it's so expensive over there?
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Looks like it is available now here in the States...at Radiant Records...for 18 bucks. :facepalm: :facepalm:
Ah, the Radiant Record Rip-Off never fails. :lol :lol
I'll wait and get it for much less next week. :coolio
Do you know what (if any) Neal's involvement with Radiant is? If I buy from Radiant, is it the same as buying from, say, Marillion or Fish?
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Looks like it is available now here in the States...at Radiant Records...for 18 bucks. :facepalm: :facepalm:
Ah, the Radiant Record Rip-Off never fails. :lol :lol
I'll wait and get it for much less next week. :coolio
Do you know what (if any) Neal's involvement with Radiant is? If I buy from Radiant, is it the same as buying from, say, Marillion or Fish?
As far as I know, Radiant Records is OWNED by Neal Morse, but he also sells albums from other companies like InsideOut, since his albums are released by them as well (and typically, they produce the better product - see Transatlantic's Whirld Tour 2010 box sets).
If you want to buy the Anderson/Stolt album from someone involved with that band directly, you can buy it from the Flower Kings store, or from Reingold Records (where I ordered mine), which is Jonas' own label/store front. Of course, these are coming from Europe, and they'll cost just as much, if not a bit more because of shipping, but you'd be buying directly from the artists involved with the album.
-Marc.
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Looks like it is available now here in the States...at Radiant Records...for 18 bucks. :facepalm: :facepalm:
Ah, the Radiant Record Rip-Off never fails. :lol :lol
I'll wait and get it for much less next week. :coolio
Do you know what (if any) Neal's involvement with Radiant is? If I buy from Radiant, is it the same as buying from, say, Marillion or Fish?
For the most part, yes. If I am not mistaken, his wife runs it.
I would love to support him more by buying from Radiant, but I had a bad experience with them about a decade ago, where I got ? nearly two weeks after its release and the communication by them was really piss poor, plus their prices are really high.
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I don't buy too much from them either, mostly stuff I find in their bargain section. But I do buy Neal's solo discs from Radiant. Same with Transatlantic. They don't have the resources that a lot of your major outlets like Amazon or Play or whatever so I go into it knowing that if things go awry it may take a while to get it straightened out. I just avoid buying things from Radiant if I want them to come in on release day.
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I just bought Cover to Cover and Cover to Cover 2 as a bundle, One Special Edition, ?, and the Transatlantic Whirlwind Live DVD, and got it all within a week. The One was the wrong version, so I sent an email. No response, so I sent another, and "Amy" replied saying "sorry, I'll send out the new one immediately". No waiting for the return or anything (in fact, she didn't even mention it). I'm not that guy, so I sent the version I had of One back and sent her an email which she replied to promptly.
Other things at the site were expensive, but this was a good transaction in every way.
Is "Amy" Neal's wife?
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Great interview with Roine about Invention of Knowledge. Talks about everything from how it first came about to how they how they did it. Lots of detail about collaborating via software/Internet on two continents, and also touches on other things Jon is doing (Anderson-Rabin-Wakeman) and Roine is doing (Kaipa, his band from back in the 70's).
Click this! (https://www.examiner.com/article/jon-anderson-and-roine-stolt-join-forces-on-cerebral-new-album)
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I just bought Cover to Cover and Cover to Cover 2 as a bundle, One Special Edition, ?, and the Transatlantic Whirlwind Live DVD, and got it all within a week. The One was the wrong version, so I sent an email. No response, so I sent another, and "Amy" replied saying "sorry, I'll send out the new one immediately". No waiting for the return or anything (in fact, she didn't even mention it). I'm not that guy, so I sent the version I had of One back and sent her an email which she replied to promptly.
Other things at the site were expensive, but this was a good transaction in every way.
Is "Amy" Neal's wife?
I think Neal's wife is called Cherry (or Cherrie). Might have screwed the spelling.
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www.lasercd.com has the CD for 10 bucks plus shipping.
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This album is fantastic. That is all I have to say.
Good to hear. It is a late present for my dad (thought is was supposed to be released late June but got bumped to July 8th in the states) Also ordered myself a copy.
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Finally was able to purchase this... :hat
Almost through one listen and it sounds...nice. The reviews saying it is very vocal-heavy and bereft of Roine solos for the most part, are right on the money. Might take some time to get used to that. While Anderson's voice always give it a Yes flavor, this definitely doesn't sound like 70s Yes like some had said. His voice still sounds great, for sure, regardless. :tup :tup
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Oh, and I shit you not, but there is a vocal melody at both the beginning of the 2nd long song and near the end of the last song that is eerily similar to Surrey with the Fringe on Top. :eek :lol
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This album really left me cold. I'm extremely underwhelmed by it, the first three songs feature some memorable melodies but the rest of the album has such a dull vibe that I have trouble staying interested until the end. Easily my biggest disappointment of the year...
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Interesting to see that some people here aren't enjoying it.
I don't post here much anymore, but I just had to pop in to say that I think this might be my favorite album of all time... Everything about it is just magical. Whenever I put it on I just get taken to another world and I just get totally lost in the music, which basically has not happened since the first time I discovered prog music with Dream Theater some 7 years ago or whenever it was. Everything about this album from the sounds of the instruments, the production, the melodies, the lyrics, and vocals (how does Jon still sound this nice?).... It's flawless in my opinion. I'm only 21 years old, so take whatever opinions I have about 40-50 year old music with a grain of salt, but I can't help but feel like this bests Yes' entire discography. Fragile, Close To The Edge, Going For The One, Topographic Oceans... While all amazing records, none of them for me hold a candle to what I'm hearing here. It's a 10/10 album if I have to be completely honest... possibly the best album I've ever heard. I don't know. I've just rarely get this moved by music anymore. If this is a career closing record for Jon, I feel that there is no better note to go out on.
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I'll echo the sentiments that this album is quite vocal-heavy. I realized this the other day when I was listening to some of it while showering, then while getting dressed for work. There weren't any major instrumental sections in the songs, and when there were, they were short. I sort of expected some grandiose musical excursions in the middle of these sprawling epics, but seeing as how they divided the longer songs into 2 or 3 tracks, it's apparent they did so because each track has a good deal of vocals, and they aren't simple just movements within a piece, movements that may or may not be instrumental in sections.
I was kind of hoping a bit of CTTE or Relayer with these long tracks, or even the obvious comparisons made to TFTO, but there's a lot instrumental-breathing room on there, too. Not that Jon's vocals aren't bad, but I was kind of hoping to see Roine and the other players get a chance to flex their musical muscles, but given that the vocalist is the one who wrote nearly all of the music, it's no wonder he wrote music that would give him the most amount of time to sing and vocalize. I don't blame him, though. This is one of his biggest releases in years, so I'm sure he wants to sing his heart out, so good for him. But given the amount of famous players on this album, it's a shame that they don't really get a chance to shine beside, or ahead of Jon and his voice.
All that aside, it's still very pretty, beautiful music, but it's also a lot of Jon's whimsy, and not much else in terms of what made Yes, as there aren't and real rip-roaring guitar solos, extended keyboard excursions, and in-your-face bass grooves. Everything feels...nice, and pretty, and at-times, fragile (no pun intended) and glass-like. It's like a thing, glass musical vase - looks great, holds beautiful flowers and has a lot of bright colors and shapes, but it's not very heavy or hard-hitting like a rock or brick, it doesn't have the kind of OOMPH you hear in some Yessongs, like "Heart Of The Sunrise", "Sound Chaser", or parts of "Awaken". Those had great moments of being soft, but also brilliant moments of spastic instrumental exercises.
I'm sure this album will do well as the year progresses, being featured in many fans' and critiques' Top 10 lists, and it'll probably win an award or two, but to tout this as "Yes music" is only a thin veil of a label, simply because Jon is involved. Sure, he wrote music and lyrics for Yes, but this one was mostly Jon and some friends (that I've never even heard of) writing music over years and years, then letting Roine and company cover it with embellishments to Jon's liking, and that's not really how Yes worked (I think...).
Honestly, I had kind of hoped this was a strictly JOINT venture, 50/50 on music and lyrics, with even Roine singing. Or heck, even a Yes-inspired album by Roine, with help from Jon, and Jon on vocals. Couldn't you imagine some TFK songs sung by Jon?! THAT would be something to pay for, and something I'd like to see. Jon singing on TFK epics like "Stardust We Are" or even "The Truth Will Set You Free" - THAT would be an amazing kind of album.
-Marc.
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I've only listened once, so I am not going to pass judgment on it yet, but the album being so wordy does have me a little concerned as to how much I might eventually like it.
I cannot remember where I saw it - I have scoured the 'net for reviews of it everywhere - but I saw one review that basically said, "If Yes would have done an album in between Tales and Relayer, this is what it would have sounded like," which sounds like utter crap. Tales and Relayer had tons of adventurous, long instrumental sections, something Invention of Knowledge appears to not have (that is a statement of style, not quality, since, again, I have only listened once).
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After three listens now...not really digging it. It sounds like nice background music, but none of the melodies are staying with me. I hope it grows on me, but so far, I am incredibly disappointed, and this is coming from a huge Roine Stolt fan. :(
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I've listened to it twice and think while it starts out relatively strong it loses me in the end. So far not what I hoped it would be.
I read a lot of reviews who compare this to Tales and equally praise it. I'm not that fond of Tales but this is not nearly as good as Tales is, regardless of it's flaws. And I echo the sentiment of others that there is a severe lack of strong instrumental passages.
Maybe this needs more time and more spins but as of now I file it under mildy disappointing.
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I've tried not to be bothered by the issues with Radiant Records because overall my experiences with them have been good, but they really need help :facepalm:
Ordered Anderson/Stolt on blue vinyl and decided to pick up TA's Kaleidoscope LP set as well, which their site describes as the green LP that radiant released as opposed to the Inside Out version. Records finally arrive today; first thing i notice is that there is no sort of bubble wrap around the records, they are both just in the box--thanks to this there is a nice dent in the TA box, not enough to damage the records but still annoying for a $40 record. Next, I open up both records; both of them are just black vinyl. Radiant didn't have a black version for sale, only the blue, so I'm assuming they just ran out and got black from some other distributor, either way their website should have reflected that. And with TA it is the Inside Out version, which again is mentioned nowhere. Im guessing Radiant's version is also sold out, but it'd have been nice to know that ahead of time. Definitely asking them to either resend the correct versions, or at the very least offer some sort of store credit. good times with Radiant :lol
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That's a bummer to hear. Just recently they had a big sale and I went to their website and yeah, there are some great deals, but when I went to check out, I don't know, it didn't quite feel right. I didn't end up ordering anything.
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Pretty sure I'd be sending those records back, if they had dents in the boxes.
Bummer that a great guy like Neal has such an awful site like that.
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Yeah, that's kinda crummy. I'd definitely send them back, if it's damaged as well as being the wrong thing... I don't think those Anderson/Stolt coloured vinyls were limited edition, either, so it's not like that should be a problem.