DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: bosk1 on February 24, 2016, 08:54:32 AM
-
The Ytsejam "Official Bootlegs" series has not really been discussed much on the forum for a long time, so I thought it might be a good opportunity to revisit the subject and point out the existence of these gems for newer forum members who might not be aware.
Your mission is simple: If you could have 5 and only 5 of these releases, what would they be? Feel free to post your picks with or without explanation. The poll will only allow up to 5 votes, but if you want to post that you "must have" more than 5, go for it and tell us why. I will post my picks and some discussion in a bit.
-
For me, the "Director's Cut" of FII is the definitive version, and the only one I really listen to (of the two). After that, I just picked the live releases (though I could easily have picked the Made In Japan and Dark Side covers as well).
-
Santiago Chile - This is one of my favourite DT gigs to watch ever. The vibe of the show is cool, JLB is in top form, and it's a great setlist. A perfect complement to the Score show.
FII demos - While I personally have zero interest in the dropped tracks and think the studio album is superior in every possible way, it's something everyone should at least check out and have for the collection, plus the Metropolis Pt 2 demo is a must.
Bucharest - Not the best production values, and JLB is sounding rough around the edges at this point in time, but the setlist is excellent, and it's worth having a document of this tour since we have no official DVD.
IaW demos - It's interesting to hear these classic songs in such early stages, with and without vocals. So raw and full of energy.
WDADRU - Again, I don't have much interest in the songs themselves, but it's much better than the studio version, plus there's the novelty of Derek and Charlie, and the commentary alone justifies this purchase.
-
My top 5 (not in any kind of rank order):
-The Majesty Demos 1985-1986: There are definitely other releases I enjoy listening to more. But prior to this being released on Ytsejam, these demos were definitely one of the "DT holy grail" items. These songs and snippets for the most part cannot be heard anywhere else, and they are such an important part of the band's history that I had to include them.
-Falling Into Infinity Demos: As I said in another thread, this is also a must-have. My other post: "This double CD set includes the original forms of the songs that were eventually reworked for the album, as well as those that did not make the cut. That includes the early instrumental demo of Metropolis pt. 2. Detailed liner notes from Mike Portnoy describe in detail what the band was going through during this period of their history and how the band almost broke up." There are great songs and versions of songs that cannot really be gotten anywhere else, so this definitely falls into the "essential" category for me. I would be shocked if this did not finish in the top 5 overall and make most people's lists.
-When Dream And Day Reunite: Not perfect versions of these songs, but you get the entire WDADU album with James. That is reason enough to own it. Plus, the encores with Charlie and Derek take it over the top. And as if that weren't enough, the band commentary on the DVD is perhaps the best they have ever done (with the possible exception of the commentary on Metropolis 2000). As with the FII demos, I would be shocked if this were not a top 5 finisher overall.
-Old Bridge, New JERSEY - 12/14/96: Although it took me awhile to warm to FII, I am a sucker for that era. Not the cleanest performance, but a lot of fun. From my other post: "I believe this is one of the "fix for '96" shows, where the band took a break from the writing/recording process to just get out and play some songs for the fans who were basically just sitting around wondering if and when we were ever going to get a new DT album (Setlist Scotty will likely correct me if my memory is inaccurate here). At this show, in addition to some great renditions of songs from I&W, Awake, and parts of A Change of Seasons, you also get some early takes on some of the Falling Into Infinity songs in a live setting. Perhaps the rarest gem on this set is the live version of Caught In A Web. This is a completely different version of the song, and you can clearly hear how parts of this version of the song eventually grew to become New Millenium."
-Bucharest, Romania 7/4/02: Six Degrees is my favorite DT album, and the title song is my favorite DT song. This was a fantastic live set from that tour that features a lot of material from this album, and solid performances of other DT songs as well.
Honorable mentions and other comments:
-Master Of Puppets: This and the Dark Side of the Moon cover set were close to making the cut, and it was hard not to include them. This is not the best version of Master of Puppets, and not even the best DT version. But it is incredibly fun.
Dark Side of the Moon: Terrific cover. Just a joy to watch or listen to. If I could pick one, I would be hard pressed to choose between CD and DVD. The CD is great because of all the bonus material. The DVD is great because of the different bonus material and because you get to see the emotion pour out of the guys as they perform this landmark album.
New York City 3/4/93: Good show. I would imagine it will make the top 5 overall. But I just feel like the things it does best have been mostly done by other releases, so despite being really good, it falls pretty far down my rankings.
Uncovered 2003-2005: I had been drooling over the thought of this being done for YEARS before they finally compiled and released it. But while good, it fell a bit short for me, probably because the recording quality and performance quality is all over the map. But still highly enjoyable.
Los Angeles, California 5/18/98: Listening to this, I feel so bad for the band. It was clearly meant to be a historic show, but the performance is just SO off. Not even Ray Alder and Bruce Dickinson guest spots save this show. Cool to have in the collection, but very little replay value.
Images and Words Demos: One of the neatest things about having this is hearing the different singers other than James.
-
In no particular order:
1. Falling into Infinity Demos. - So amazing! It's great to listen to the album songs in their raw form and rare classics like Raise the Knife in their original form. This is DT in one of their biggest creative sparks, and I can see why they benefited from the outside production. There were a lot of ideas, but lots of them were not quite there yet. Having Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen being two separate songs is one of those decisions I can only applaud.
2. Bucharest, Romania. - I still maintain that World Tourbulence has had the best setlists out of any DT tour... One amazing song after another for 3 hours non-stop. Also, I think the band were at their live flexibility peak at this moment (the impro jams, blasting covers out of nowhere, radical changes to the setlist every night, etc.). This concert is an excellent documentation of that tour, the setlist is one of DT's all-time best, JLB is not a bad shape and Petrucci just kicks it out of the park.
3. New York, 93. - Sheer power and youth. I think this is an extremely important show because it served as the great-grandfather of the Evening With format, and it shows. They sound young, energetic and flawed in certain points; but all of those aspects make of this show a truly magical experience.
4. Old Bridge, NJ. - I've always loved this one because of what it represents. The band just wanted to get out there and play some tunes for their fans, they weren't at their most stable point musically and personally but they literally went out there and played some shows just for the fun of it. That's something modern DT lacks IMO (and any other big band), given they're so caught up in a cycle of album promotion and strict touring cycles. I love JLB's performance on this one (Lines in the Sand, anyone?) and there are some really rare performances in here; songs in their original form, etc.
5. Uncovered 2003 - 2005. - "Woa, DarkLol" some of you might say, and here's why I picked this one: The cover series (for me) are often hit and miss. Master of Puppets was pretty meh (JLB was not born to sing Metallica, and Rudess just can't match the feel of having two guitar players), Dark Side of the Moon was awesome and Made in Japan was pretty good as well... but that's about it. These albums are extremely influential in DT's sound as we all know, but the songs played in Uncovered 2003 - 2005 cover a far more ambitious spectrum of influence and sound. Diary of a Madman was amazing, Mother Father was unexpected but great, Death on Two Legs is a long overdue Queen cover, etc. Also, this album has the only 'official' documentation of DT's tour with Queenscryche back in 2003 with Won't Get Fooled Again. This one feels like such a special compilation it took the 5th place.
-
Santiago Chile - This is one of my favourite DT gigs to watch ever. The vibe of the show is cool, JLB is in top form, and it's a great setlist. A perfect complement to the Score show.
Yes, absolutely. This is my favorite Ytsejam release. Love the small rig. Feels like Zeppelin.
Bucharest-Love the DVD and since there is no live CD/DVD from this tour, this is it. Amazing venue too.
WDADRu- This has replaced the Charlie version completely. Love these songs and you get James' version. Vocally a little uneven, but the band is in top form.
NYC 3/4/93- Great I&W era show. I feel like this is way underrated amongst the masses. Never hear any chatter about it. While many wish they could've seen them on that tour, I'm surprised there isn't any more love for this.
Made In Japan- BY FAR, my favorite Cover Album. The band delivers a truly loose, but inspired set. I feel like this marries all that's best in DT, as opposed to the other Cover Albums, that basically focus on one facet of the band.
-
One of DT's biggest loses with MP's departure was the loss of the continuity in Ytse Jam releases. I recall MP saying he was preparing a BC&SL tour Ytse Jam Release by the time he left the band, so that's a bummer.
Happy Holidays 2013 is amazing in all aspects, but that's just an album we've gotten in almost 6 years of the new DT. We were so spoiled back then.
-
I would have voted for 'Cleaning Out The Closet', but looking at the web site, I see that it isn't listed. A great fan club release, and worth it for others to locate. I always learn something on this site.
fwiw: Take all these songs (minus your least favorite 'To Live Forever' version), add the 'Change of Seasons' title track at the end, and it makes for one damn good disc.
Top 5:
Train of Thought inst demos....I don't listen to the studio versions of Honor Thy Father or This Dying Soul, but I'll listen to these versions. ITNoG and Vacant are terrific.
Santiago....great setlist, great sound, and a hyper 20,000 group of fans
Bucharest....disc 2 of Six Degrees is one of my favorite discs of any band...
Dark Side of the Moon DVD.....for too many reasons
FII demos....finally got it two years ago, worth it just for the 'Hell's Kitchen' solo included in 'Burning My Soul', as well as the hundred other reasons that get mentioned in various threads.
-
Plenty of them are cool/fantastic/whatever, but for me there are only 3 that are "must-haves":
When Dream And Day Reunite on DVD
The Falling Into Infinity Demos
The Majesty Demos
-
Bucharest - as someone already mentioned one of the all-time great set lists PLUS 8 bonus tracks! Amazing. Still the only source for TGP and TGD.
WDADRU - I love this album, and the enhanced arrangement of TKH is glorious. Either DVD or CD.
Santiago - nothing I can add, great show
'93 CD - pre-injury JLB, nuff said
Uncovered - close call between this and DSotM, both showcase the band outside their usual milieu
-
-The Majesty Demos 1985-1986: There are definitely other releases I enjoy listening to more. But prior to this being released on Ytsejam, these demos were definitely one of the "DT holy grail" items. These songs and snippets for the most part cannot be heard anywhere else, and they are such an important part of the band's history that I had to include them.
-Falling Into Infinity Demos: As I said in another thread, this is also a must-have. My other post: "This double CD set includes the original forms of the songs that were eventually reworked for the album, as well as those that did not make the cut. That includes the early instrumental demo of Metropolis pt. 2. Detailed liner notes from Mike Portnoy describe in detail what the band was going through during this period of their history and how the band almost broke up." There are great songs and versions of songs that cannot really be gotten anywhere else, so this definitely falls into the "essential" category for me. I would be shocked if this did not finish in the top 5 overall and make most people's lists.
Images and Words Demos: One of the neatest things about having this is hearing the different singers other than James.
I picked those three too, pretty much for the same reasons you talk about. I also picked the When Dream & Day Unite. I don't usually care about demos, but having a document of the very early years of the band's career (1985 to 1991) is amazing.
Finally, I picked the Train Of Thought demos. That was my first DT album.
I couldn't care less for live or cover CDs.
-
Only four stand out:
Dark Side-the fact that it was a surprise encore, and that they actually made it sound bigger than either incarnation of Floyd could really makes it wonderful.
Bucharest-As Blob said, that setlist is something else. And, the bonus stuff from the other show is just as excellent.
Old Bridge and Tokyo-Live shows from when I was most interested in their material.
Los Angeles, California 5/18/98: Listening to this, I feel so bad for the band. It was clearly meant to be a historic show, but the performance is just SO off. Not even Ray Alder and Bruce Dickinson guest spots save this show. Cool to have in the collection, but very little replay value.
Was it? I assumed the guests were just covering for JLB who was clearly unable to perform. Was their some other significance?
-
My understanding of the guests is that they were pre-planned to help make the show extra-epic. It was recorded, and had been planned to be their live release, but they ended up scrapping the idea and later recorded Paris instead, presumably because the performance just ended up being so off.
-
There has always been a perceived MP vs JLB conflict over the years. I have always felt this to be true and the release of the LA '98 show was one of the first Red Flags. There is no way that this release would not embarrass James, and MP had to know what he was doing.
I firmly believe this.
-
Okay, but since they opted not to release it, how does that support that there was conflict? Them deciding not to release it seems like the exact opposite. You lost me.
-
It was released though, in the ytsejam series (which is what I assume TAC meant).
-
Now you lost me. ;D
Did you not buy it through a commercial outlet?
This show should've been buried. Just because they officially released Paris from this tour should've given MP even more reason to bury it.
This show was so embarrassingly bad for James. On my first listen I was thinking WTF was MP thinking.
-
First choice for me was Number of the Beast, partly because I really enjoy the performance, but most importantly because it, somewhat ironically, is what got me into Iron Maiden in the first place (late bloomer, I know). Very quickly, I thought "hey, this music is great, I ought to check out the original" and have been a Maiden fan ever since. Bringing that history full circle was Maiden's Final Frontier Tour in the summer of 2010, with DT opening, which still stands as the best concert experience of my life, even though DT's set, as an opener, was far too short. Maiden was just that good live!
Beyond that, WDADRU is very cool, although the performance of Afterlife on Score is far, far superior to me. FII demos is neat given the extensive amount of extra material not appearing on the album (including an early SFAM demo!). Then I went with Master of Puppets and Dark Side of the Moon since the originals are, hands down, two of my favorite albums of all time. I don't absolutely love DT's interpretation of either one as James' voice and Jordan's keys don't work for Metallica to me, and the epic vibe of DSOM is mostly missing, but I DO love that the albums/bands that DT as a band considers influential are so similar to my own. Would love to have a full cover of 2112 to fully round out the common influences, but at least I know how much JP loves that album.
-
Okay, but since they opted not to release it, how does that support that there was conflict? Them deciding not to release it seems like the exact opposite. You lost me.
It wouldn't be appropriate as a commercial, mainstream release. That's not what you put out there for the casual or would-be fans. MP deemed it acceptable for an off-label release, which presumably only diehards would buy. Honestly, I find this rather dubious. I'm not sure I'll go as far as TAC and call it a deliberate Fuck You to JLB, but burning the thing would have been a cool thing to do amongst bandmates who presumably should get along.
-
It was released though, in the ytsejam series (which is what I assume TAC meant).
Now you lost me. ;D
Did you not buy it through a commercial outlet?
This show should've been buried. Just because they officially released Paris from this tour should've given MP even more reason to bury it.
This show was so embarrassingly bad for James. On my first listen I was thinking WTF was MP thinking.
No, I mean the band held it back from label release because of the quality. It was only released through Ytsejam way after the fact. So how is that a slight to James? ??? You don't find those releases in stores or other retailers (for the most part, anyway, unless they are used copies). The thing is, that show was bootlegged because people at the show taped it and circulated it, so it was already out there. And I believe there is a statement from Mike somewhere out there basically saying, "We had no plans to release this, but since the diehards have been clamoring for it, and since it is an important part of DT history, we decided to put it out in this limited format." So, again, how is it somehow a slight to James? Basically only the diehards that know about and buy Ytsejam have it, and they were screaming for a better quality version (i.e., not a fan bootleg version) of it for years. I'm not following your logic.
I'm not sure I'll go as far as TAC and call it a deliberate Fuck You to JLB, but burning the thing would have been a cool thing to do amongst bandmates who presumably should get along.
Well, yeah, in an ideal world. But again, it was already out there in fan bootleg form anyway, and there was demand for a better version of it.
-
Since we're on the subject,
One, I think the MP/JLB animosity is well documented at this point. Whether that show plays into it or not is up to MP and JLB, but I don't think it can be denied that there is tension between the two.
Two, I always thought that the "Number..." show was a slight missed opportunity. I get it; cover the album as the original band released it, thus Gangland, and with the "alternative arrangement", MP and the gang acknowledged Maiden's later disregard for the song (at least one later re-release of the album had Total Eclipse on there instead), but I always wondered what DT's version of TE would sound like. It's a top 5 Maiden song for me, so maybe that's why I care so much. Mike surely would have known of the band's feelings on the two songs; I always wondered why he didn't throw the nod to it.
-
Time constraints. He'd have to do Gangland since everybody knows it from the album. Total Eclipse, while a pretty cool song, would be optional and they probably wanted to spend that 4 minutes elsewhere.
And honestly, I didn't care for any of it. Don't like JLB's vocals and I'm not crazy about the keyboard.
-
The rerecorded in a tin can vocals ruin the Beast cover album. I never listen to it. I much prefer the 4-24-04 Osaka boot. The vocals are better and Jordan sounds way more comfortable. Feels like his parts are much better developed.
-
For me it was:
Majesty Demos: a must to see how the band started out and progressed, even within that first year they were together. Plus it's cool to have the last 6 tracks on the disc, which are completed songs, even if not of the same standards of songwriting and production that the band would have in a few short years.
FII Demos: the sound quality on these demos is really amazing, and there's so many differences between these versions and what ultimately ended up on the album. Nevermind the 5 completed songs that didn't make the album as well as the original version of Metropolis part II, which gives us insight into what existed before they expanded it into the full SFaM album.
3/4/93 New York City: a great and complete show from Images and Tour that includes the original ACoS (in it's best form, IMO), TLF and Eve. Plus being the full show, you get all of the IaW album live, plus 3 tracks from WDaDU. The best show from that whole tour.
12/4/96 Birch Hill: from the Fix for 96 shows - I guess if you have the FII demos, you might consider another bootleg instead, but I think this is a must have, not only for the FII tracks that appear in their early form, but from the other older songs that they changed up significantly.
7/4/02 Bucharest: not a huge video person, but I love World Tourbulence and this is the closest thing we'll get to an official live release from this tour. Not only is the full show represented on this DVD, but MP made sure to include a ton of bonus footage from the Mexico City show 4 month before, which gives you a great souvenir of the whole tour.
If I could make a sixth choice, it would be When Dream and Day Reunite - for all those people that can't stand the original WDaDU album, this is a way to experience with JL on vocals and JR on keys with much better sound. Plus the encore tracks with Charlie and Derek and the DVD containing the footage of the band when they were working on the album. Oh and the cover artwork is pretty cool too! ;)
-
Oh and the cover artwork is pretty cool too! ;)
:tup Yes, it really is.
-
I own four of them and enjoy them all. WDADRU, Number of the Beast, Master of Puppets and Dark Side of the Moon.
WDADRU is my favorite of those.
-
From my other post: "I believe this is one of the "fix for '96" shows, where the band took a break from the writing/recording process to just get out and play some songs for the fans who were basically just sitting around wondering if and when we were ever going to get a new DT album (Setlist Scotty will likely correct me if my memory is inaccurate here).
Actually, that pretty much nails the reason why they did those shows. Good memory! ;)
My understanding of the guests is that they were pre-planned to help make the show extra-epic. It was recorded, and had been planned to be their live release, but they ended up scrapping the idea and later recorded Paris instead, presumably because the performance just ended up being so off.
Well, maybe your memory isn't so good! ;D Seriously, as far as I recall, this show was not considered for their official live album, BUT it was recorded by Westwood One for a potential future radio broadcast, which never happened. Interestingly enough, part the night before (also in LA) was broadcast over the Internet live. Can't recall why the full show didn't happen - if it was problems with the broadcasting or what - but I know at least part of it was broadcast. That said, I believe they always planned on recording the Paris show for a live release, and this LA show was just something extra.
-
My understanding of the guests is that they were pre-planned to help make the show extra-epic. It was recorded, and had been planned to be their live release, but they ended up scrapping the idea and later recorded Paris instead, presumably because the performance just ended up being so off.
Well, maybe your memory isn't so good! ;D Seriously, as far as I recall, this show was not considered for their official live album, BUT it was recorded by Westwood One for a potential future radio broadcast, which never happened. Interestingly enough, part the night before (also in LA) was broadcast over the Internet live. Can't recall why the full show didn't happen - if it was problems with the broadcasting or what - but I know at least part of it was broadcast. That said, I believe they always planned on recording the Paris show for a live release, and this LA show was just something extra.
Oh, okay. That is not a memory issue, but rather just a misunderstanding on my part. But as I understand, there was still a high fan demand for the entire show to be released. So were people begging for the entire thing to be released because they wanted a better quality version than the bootlegs, because they wanted the entire show and not just the partial radio broadcast, or both? Or am I completely off altogether on whether there was demand for it? Again, my understanding is that Mike decided to release it, at least in part, because of demand from the fans. But please correct me if I am mistaken. You would definitely be more "in the know" than I would on that subject.
-
The rerecorded in a tin can vocals ruin the Beast cover album. I never listen to it. I much prefer the 4-24-04 Osaka boot. The vocals are better and Jordan sounds way more comfortable. Feels like his parts are much better developed.
I agree with this.
I mean, I'm not much of a Maiden fan, so DT's version of NOTB is next to meaningless for me. But that Osaka boot is definitely a better performance than the one recorded for the Official Bootleg. JLB sounds fantastic.
-
Oh, okay. That is not a memory issue, but rather just a misunderstanding on my part. But as I understand, there was still a high fan demand for the entire show to be released. So were people begging for the entire thing to be released because they wanted a better quality version than the bootlegs, because they wanted the entire show and not just the partial radio broadcast, or both? Or am I completely off altogether on whether there was demand for it? Again, my understanding is that Mike decided to release it, at least in part, because of demand from the fans. But please correct me if I am mistaken. You would definitely be more "in the know" than I would on that subject.
LOL! No, I no it isn't a memory issue - just had to tease you! :biggrin:
If I recall correctly, back in the day this show was fairly hyped around the fanbase so that it was in demand, and I think the fact that this particular show (the May 18th show with Ray and Bruce) was never broadcast in any form or manner probably contributed to it. And I don't know if there ever was an audience recording of the show circulating amongst bootleg collectors, but I tend to think not. But over time, I think people in general had forgotten about the show, so by the time MP got YJR going and released it, it didn't have the impact it would have, had it been released a few years earlier.
-
I had stopped trading shortly before this, but I don't remember it circulating.
But I was shocked when I first got it, for two reasons:
1. As I said, it was Red Flag on the MP/JLB situation. And this was before it was a "thing". But this was my initial thought upon hearing it.
2. This was in the first batch of releases, wasn't it? And while it seemed like a cool idea to get shows, it was so bad, it didn't make sense that you'd tease future releases with this one.
-
2. This was in the first batch of releases, wasn't it? And while it seemed like a cool idea to get shows, it was so bad, it didn't make sense that you'd tease future releases with this one.
Yeah, pretty sure it was. And it is numbered 002, so...yeah. I believe the first batch was this, the Majesty Demos, and the making of SFAM.
And as far as releasing it because of demand, you and Scotty may be right that it wasn't circulating, or at least, not widely. But as I said, I think I recall Mike saying at the time (maybe it is even in the liner notes) that it was released due to fan demand. I dunno. Maybe if I remember, I'll ask JP or James about it when I see them in May.
-
Well I found its release very peculiar at the time, that's all. :)
OK, carry on!
I would also like to add that the whole Ytsejam idea was glorious, and was a real treat for the fans. I know MP's original vision had releases every 6 months, the releases did come fewer and farther between. Still these releases were great.
I do wish they could be resurrected in some way.
-
I do wish they could be resurrected in some way.
I often bug them about when I see them, and I will continue to do so. :biggrin:
One more thing slightly off-topic but related to the above discussion: Given that it was an actual label release, I think the greater travesty was releasing OIALT. Despite some really cool stuff on that CD, James struggles a lot during that show as well, too the point where I have never really found that release to be very listenable outside of a handful of songs.
-
2. This was in the first batch of releases, wasn't it? And while it seemed like a cool idea to get shows, it was so bad, it didn't make sense that you'd tease future releases with this one.
Yeah, pretty sure it was. And it is numbered 002, so...yeah. I believe the first batch was this, the Majesty Demos, and the making of SFAM.
And as far as releasing it because of demand, you and Scotty may be right that it wasn't circulating, or at least, not widely. But as I said, I think I recall Mike saying at the time (maybe it is even in the liner notes) that it was released due to fan demand. I dunno. Maybe if I remember, I'll ask JP or James about it when I see them in May.
It was part of the first batch. Gotta think MP's reasoning on it was not to go with the holy grail stuff on the first batch and not have anything significant/special for later batches. Probably the best way to do answer this (at least in terms of fan interest from that time period) would be to go thru the Ytsejam Mailing List archive from that time to see what the fans said. I don't have the time to do it, but maybe someone else would be game to.
I do wish they could be resurrected in some way.
I often bug them about when I see them, and I will continue to do so. :biggrin:
Please do! I'd love to see them do more releases as well, and there is stuff they could release from the MM-era.
One more thing slightly off-topic but related to the above discussion: Given that it was an actual label release, I think the greater travesty was releasing OIALT. Despite some really cool stuff on that CD, James struggles a lot during that show as well, too the point where I have never really found that release to be very listenable outside of a handful of songs.
Honestly, JL never really bothered me much on this release, altho I know it wasn't one of his greatest performances. Not sure if there was any touching up, but if there wasn't, it would be nice if they had. And I do wish the whole show had been released, without the studio addition of Jay Beckenstein - seemed such a silly thing to add him after the fact when he wasn't there even in the first place.
-
I do wish they could be resurrected in some way.
I often bug them about when I see them, and I will continue to do so. :biggrin:
One more thing slightly off-topic but related to the above discussion: Given that it was an actual label release, I think the greater travesty was releasing OIALT. Despite some really cool stuff on that CD, James struggles a lot during that show as well, too the point where I have never really found that release to be very listenable outside of a handful of songs.
Oh, absolutely! I remember being so psyched that they were finally releasing a live album, and I was horrified to hear the vocals on that, let alone that I like my live albums to be one COMPLETE show.
Even when I go through deep DT listening modes, and go peeling through a bunch of bootlegs, I always completely avoid the FII tour. It's like the band's awkward junior high years.
-
:rollin That is a pretty vivid description.
So...going back to Scotty's post about bugging them about future releases, do you guys have any specific requests that are things that are likely in the band's control? I mean, I know there is a lot out there that Mike Portnoy had. But most of that is stuff the band probably does not have access to now. But maybe I'll do some digging and try to find out. As far as stuff I think they likely have, here is what comes to my mind:
-One of the European "warm-up" shows with Mangini prior to the ADTOE tour. The set lists may not be astonishing. :neverusethis: But they did play a few that were not otherwise covered during the ADTOE tour and thus did not end up on the Happy Holidays disk, such as TCOT and Peruvian Skies. Plus, it would just be cool to hear some of the early gigs with MM.
-More footage from the drummer auditions. It may be awkward and/or forbidden to release footage with some or all of the guys who did not get selected. But I would love to at least see/hear more from MM's audition.
-The I&W anniversary show.
-Video of the rest of the LSFNY set that did not make the DVD, even if it is somewhat raw and unedited.
Is there anything else out there that is likely to exist? I mean, other shows from the ADTOE and DT12 tours don't really merit release, IMO, since everything was synced up so tight on those tours, such that we aren't going to get any different songs or drastically different performances of songs that aren't covered on LALP, Happy Holidays, or BTFW (yeah, I know we could get orchestra-less performances from any other DT12 tour show, but that isn't really worth it to me since it would otherwise be pretty much identical to what we got).
-
Good question Bosk. I'd say that they should be able to put together at least 1 demos release from the last 3 albums, if not a separate release from each album and/or a making of release from each album.
Of course the complete drummer auditions, especially the jam sessions, but really everything, would be nice to have. Unfortunately I doubt this will ever happen.
You were right in suggesting one of the summer 2011 warm up gigs - in particular I'd prefer one with the full setlist containing Learning to Live as the encore (as opposed to Metropolis, which is on many more releases). I'd go even further by including a couple of the early 2011 North American shows (before TGD was dropped from the set) - one of each of the 2 setlists they did then. Even the second NYC show they did that had them perform TLF, PShift and 21st Century Schizoid Man - I know 2 of those 3 songs are already on the 2013 Fan Club release, but it would be nice to have the whole show. And don't forget about one of the 2015 shows!
-
You were right in suggesting one of the summer 2011 warm up gigs - in particular I'd prefer one with the full setlist containing Learning to Live as the encore (as opposed to Metropolis, which is on many more releases).
Definitely. And as for a DVD, wasn't High Voltage recorded?
I'm sure we'll never see the other drummer's auditions, but I'd love to see the rest of Mike's. Surely that footage must be lying around.
I'm not big on buying demos, but there was a lot of discussion regarding the ADTOE drum programming. Would definitely be interesting to hear.
-
Majesty Demos - So you can see how it all started
I&W Demos - So you can see the pivotal moment in their careers, what they tried, what didn't work, and how they came to get James
Falling Into Infinity Demos - so you can see what could have been, and why they needed to do things their own way
Making of SFAM - So you can see how their own way is and the turning point in their careers
When Dream and Day Reunite - Great opportunity to revisit a forgotten album, being at a point in their careers where they can take more risks (like devoting an entire show to an album a lot of people don't like or haven't heard of), and an opportunity to bring back two former members to perform (and do an amazing job)
-
This thread excites me very much, since I have never really actively delved into these releases, aside from some yt click troughs and some footage of the cover concerts. Especially the Scenes and FII demo's intrigue me.
Anyways, I do hope we will see some future releases as well. I am sure there is some nice material lying around from previous (festival) tours. Maybe another Happy Holidays? Also, given the size of the project, I really think The Astonishing could provide some interesting demo's/separated tracks/alternate versions/cut material/live performances. And a true making of would be neat as well (both studio and tour), the behind the scenes pictures in the current tourbook look cool.
-
HOneslty, I'm not sure I would buy the drummer demos. I'm in on live shows and album demos, but the drummer demos.. nah.
Holy grail for me would be:
- the complete Ronnie Scott's show from the ACOS EP
- the complete Rotterdam show
Does the OIALT set have the full show? Or is it a compilation?
-
HOneslty, I'm not sure I would buy the drummer demos. I'm in on live shows and album demos, but the drummer demos.. nah.
Holy grail for me would be:
- the complete Ronnie Scott's show from the ACOS EP
- the complete Rotterdam show
Does the OIALT set have the full show? Or is it a compilation?
Stads, there's a somewhat muffled sounding soundboard of the entire Ronnie Scott's show circulating, as well as a killer audience recording of the Rotterdam gig (which almost sounds like a soundboard recording).
As for OiaL, no - it's most of the show with a handful of tracks rearranged, but there are some tracks that were not included. However, some of those ended up on the 1998 Fan Club CD, which I consider to be the companion to OiaL.
Regarding the drummer auditions, you gotta remember that a big part of it was the improv jams that the whole band did with each drummer, as well as the 3 songs and the tricky exercises. So I think it might be more interesting than you think since it won't simply just be naked drum tracks.
-
Good question Bosk. I'd say that they should be able to put together at least 1 demos release from the last 3 albums, if not a separate release from each album and/or a making of release from each album.
Have you discussed the idea of official bootlegs with the band?
Given the Happy Holidays release, it seemed they were into the idea of continuing, but perhaps don't have much time between writing/recording/touring to dedicate to it.
-
Good question Bosk. I'd say that they should be able to put together at least 1 demos release from the last 3 albums, if not a separate release from each album and/or a making of release from each album.
Have you discussed the idea of official bootlegs with the band?
Given the Happy Holidays release, it seemed they were into the idea of continuing, but perhaps don't have much time between writing/recording/touring to dedicate to it.
I know I spoke with them about it some time ago, but I haven't said anything about it probably since I saw them in person last (April 2014).
On a completely different topic, even tho I should be in bed, I did some digging in the Ytsejam Mailing List archives, and I found a couple things worth mentioning about the 5/18/98 gig and OiaL.
Regarding whether the 5/18/98 show was intended as a live album, here's what one fan said after the Lubbock, Texas show, which happened 4 days after the LA show:
I also talked to Labrie, asked him about a live album, and he said it's a very strong possibility in the near future. They're talking to the label about it.
And MP himself posted after the second LA show. Besides the setlists to both LA shows, here's what he said about the 5/18/98 show:
I have to say that this 2nd show goes down in the Dream Theater history books as one of the coolest of ALL TIME!!! The good news for everybody...... The entire show was recorded by Westwood One for a possible radio broadcast sometime in the future!! So you all may be in for a treat!!
So it's quite evident that MP thought this show was awesome, probably based largely on the setlist and the guests. At the time he posted this, it was only a day after the show, so I doubt he had a chance to give the show a listen to listen to the band's performance (including that of JL). But I know that he always graded the shows according to the venue, the audience and the band's performance, so I'm guessing he must've been under the impression that the performance was great overall. And I saw some of the subsequent posts by the fans who were pretty psyched to get their hands on this show. I'm guessing these would be the reasons why MP was willing to release this show.
-
For lots of previously unreleased material:
Majesty Demos
Fii Demos
For a great updating of WDADU: WDADRU
Best cover albums:
Number of the Beast
Dark Side of the Moon
-
Ah wait, I messed up clicking The Making Of Falling Into Infinity, instead of the Falling Into Infinity Demos
-
This was kind of easy. I didn't pick any of the live shows because I have more than enough bootlegs and I already have all of the live shows listed here and in full (WDADR isn't the full version on the YJR release). I have most of the demos as well via bootleg but I chose them anyway.
When Dream and Day Unite demos
Images and Words demos
Falling Into Infinity demos - I've always said the demos had some better songs and better versions of the songs.
The Making of Scenes From A Memory - This is probably the most listened to YJR for me, along with FII demos.
The Making of Falling Into Infinity.
-
Stads, there's a somewhat muffled sounding soundboard of the entire Ronnie Scott's show circulating, as well as a killer audience recording of the Rotterdam gig (which almost sounds like a soundboard recording).
As for OiaL, no - it's most of the show with a handful of tracks rearranged, but there are some tracks that were not included. However, some of those ended up on the 1998 Fan Club CD, which I consider to be the companion to OiaL.
So I can basically reconstruct the full show from those sources, plus or minus?
Regarding the drummer auditions, you gotta remember that a big part of it was the improv jams that the whole band did with each drummer, as well as the 3 songs and the tricky exercises. So I think it might be more interesting than you think since it won't simply just be naked drum tracks.
I'm not bugged by the "nakedness" of the drum tracks as much as I am thinking of the - what were they, three? - video releases done around the time of the drummer selection. It just seemed so... lame (sorry if I offend with that). FOR ME ONLY, that was a not that auspicious way to auger in the new era. I thought it shallow and show-boat-y and too much like reality TV instead of reality. Coming right on the heels of LaBrie's PROMISE (and he DID promise) that the remaining four guys would pick up the slack from Mike's leaving (as if it was the easiest thing to do; this thread alone proves it was NOT) it just didn't resonate.
If it was simply the "jams" presented as "songs" on a disk, I would pony up for that.
-
Stads, there's a somewhat muffled sounding soundboard of the entire Ronnie Scott's show circulating, as well as a killer audience recording of the Rotterdam gig (which almost sounds like a soundboard recording).
As for OiaL, no - it's most of the show with a handful of tracks rearranged, but there are some tracks that were not included. However, some of those ended up on the 1998 Fan Club CD, which I consider to be the companion to OiaL.
So I can basically reconstruct the full show from those sources, plus or minus?
Scotty, I could have sworn there was a full version of the OiaL show circulating. Maybe I was thinking of the Rotterdam show for which there are a few different releases, though I think it's probably the same source.
-
I've just ordered The Making of Scenes From A Memory.
But I'm afraid that I could lose my money if they are not shipping, do you know if they are still active?
-
Stads, there's a somewhat muffled sounding soundboard of the entire Ronnie Scott's show circulating, as well as a killer audience recording of the Rotterdam gig (which almost sounds like a soundboard recording).
As for OiaL, no - it's most of the show with a handful of tracks rearranged, but there are some tracks that were not included. However, some of those ended up on the 1998 Fan Club CD, which I consider to be the companion to OiaL.
So I can basically reconstruct the full show from those sources, plus or minus?
Scotty, I could have sworn there was a full version of the OiaL show circulating. Maybe I was thinking of the Rotterdam show for which there are a few different releases, though I think it's probably the same source.
Paris 6-25-98. That's it isn't it? I have it.
-
Stads, there's a somewhat muffled sounding soundboard of the entire Ronnie Scott's show circulating, as well as a killer audience recording of the Rotterdam gig (which almost sounds like a soundboard recording).
As for OiaL, no - it's most of the show with a handful of tracks rearranged, but there are some tracks that were not included. However, some of those ended up on the 1998 Fan Club CD, which I consider to be the companion to OiaL.
So I can basically reconstruct the full show from those sources, plus or minus?
Scotty, I could have sworn there was a full version of the OiaL show circulating. Maybe I was thinking of the Rotterdam show for which there are a few different releases, though I think it's probably the same source.
Paris 6-25-98. That's it isn't it? I have it.
Yes, so do I. Now I just realized where I got it from. It's easily one of their best live shows to date.
-
That Rotterdam show was cool. I have an audio recording which is quite good.
There is video from it on the 5YIAL DVD. I would LOVE to see video of the entire show. That would be a fantastic YJR release.
-
Stads, there's a somewhat muffled sounding soundboard of the entire Ronnie Scott's show circulating, as well as a killer audience recording of the Rotterdam gig (which almost sounds like a soundboard recording).
As for OiaL, no - it's most of the show with a handful of tracks rearranged, but there are some tracks that were not included. However, some of those ended up on the 1998 Fan Club CD, which I consider to be the companion to OiaL.
So I can basically reconstruct the full show from those sources, plus or minus?
Pretty much - BMS, TWIUtB, UaGM and the full version of Scarred aren't on the 1998 Fan Club CD, but everything else played at the Paris show that's not on OiaL is. And there's some tracks that are on it that weren't played at the Paris gig whatsoever - TLF, Eve, LSOaD, TSM and Bad.
But as Snob brought out, there is a great sounding audience recording of the full Paris gig if you don't mind audience recordings.
If it was simply the "jams" presented as "songs" on a disk, I would pony up for that.
That's actually what I was suggesting - no need to do an expanded version of TSCO documentary. Just give us the music from those auditions.
-
FII demos is a must. Far superior than the album. You can clearly see that, in more capable hands - a better producer - the album would be great.
New York City 3/4/93 is probably my favorite show from DT, and the best I have ever heard of that tour.
I&W demos is essential to join the dots and understand how they made that masterpiece.
WD&DU demos is very good, it tells a lot about their evolution.
but my favorite is one nobody here has mentioned:
Awake demos. Because the original album is a masterpiece, and listening to the demos is like seeing something you really love by a different angle. I know there´s not that much difference, but the small details matter a lot to me. Sometimes I think I even like it more than the original album.
-
Even though it got quite some votes, in the discussion the Scenes from a Memory remix has hardly been mentioned. It's like getting a second - and complete! - version of a wonderful album, only the Falling Into Infinity demos achieve this result (in fact I voted also for the FII demos), so it's great to have a different version of SFAM... you could also play around with the versions to create a personal mix, I did one after being inspired, back when I was a lurker, to someone posting here of his own personal version of it.
-
That Rotterdam show was cool. I have an audio recording which is quite good.
There is video from it on the 5YIAL DVD. I would LOVE to see video of the entire show. That would be a fantastic YJR release.
A video of that would definitely be an amazing item to have.
-
I gotta say that I absolutely love these releases. Almost all of these have tracks that are either very interesting or essential. I picked 5 up there, but in my mind most of them are worthy of being picked up for die-hards. I will go through all of them and mention the reason they need to be heard (or not).
The Majesty Demos 1985-1986
Very cool to hear the band at the very beginning. I have no problem with production issues, I've heard worse recordings. Worth it to hear the original version of Another Won and A Vision is an early epic that is very good.
When Dream and Day Unite Demos
I love demos, and I love Charlie Dominici's voice. Lots of early instrumentals to dig through here, inluding some that didn't make the album. Worth it to hear Charlie sing A Vision, To Live Forever, and the Beatles Medley at the end of disc 2.
Images and Words Demos
This disc is easily worth the money for the vocalist auditions. An early demo version of A Change of Seasons is the highlight of those, and the ATCO demos, some of James's earliest recordings with the band (amazing)
Awake Demos
Admittedly, Awake is not my favorite album, and the demos here do not offer much in the way of different versions than what made the record. Interesting to hear The Mirror's demo, though, which still has the Lie riff in the middle of it, but was before that was a different song.
Falling Into Infinity Demos
As many have said, this could easily take over the original album. Most songs here had been completely reworked after this, so there's many nuggets in many of the songs that were left out. It has the five B-sides that were on the Cleaning Out the Closet disc, and a 20-minute Metropolis 2 demo. Worth it for those alone, but Lines in the Sand is probably my favorite track here.
Train Of Thought Instrumental Demos
These are fun to listen to, but it's about what you would expect from the title.
The Making of Scenes From A Memory
Very much worth buying. The second disc is the entirety of SFAM with a different mix, and it's very cool to use as an alternate version of the album.
The Making of Falling Into Infinity
Probably only for die-hards. Not much here in the way of "songs" but it's cool to hear the album come together.
Los Angeles, California 5/18/98
As far as live albums go, it's okay. It's a full show from the FII tour, which in my opinion has had way too many releases. This one, the '96 show, OIALT, the Outtakes disc, Five Years... a little too over saturated, while the 6Degrees tour hasn't had much. But it does have some cool performances, including Speak To Me.
Tokyo, Japan 10/28/95
Focuses on the Awake album, but a couple great rare performances, including A Change of Seasons in full with Derek, and Lost Without You.
When Dream And Day Reunite (CD or DVD)
Hands down, the best release. I would get both, just to have the audio, but also the commentary on the DVD. Nothing else to say, it's great.
Old Bridge, New JERSEY - 12/14/96
A Pre-FII show with lots of FII demos making this live album. Most of the songs, including older ones like Metropolis and CIAW, have jams or are different versions. Worth picking up.
New York City 3/4/93
The definitive I&W show. Has all 8 tracks, the original ACOS, a bunch from WDADU, To Live Forever, Eve... A must have.
Bucharest, Romania 7/4/02 (DVD only)
Great show, which bring pretty much every long song they had at the time. Killing Hand, Learning to Live, Scarred, Lines, Home, Glass Prison, Great Debate, Six Degrees. It's only missing Trial of Tears. While the quality could be better, it's still worth it since its the only chance to see the band on this tour.
Santiago, Chile 12/6/05 (DVD only)
Great alternative to Score. No Another Won, though.
Master Of Puppets
Pretty good Metallica cover album.
The Number Of The Beast
Great Iron Maiden cover album.
Dark Side Of The Moon (CD or DVD)
Bonus disc is worth getting.
Made in Japan
Don't like this one, not a DP fan.
Uncovered 2003-2005
Very cool disc. Diary of a Madman FTW.
-
I've just ordered The Making of Scenes From A Memory.
But I'm afraid that I could lose my money if they are not shipping, do you know if they are still active?
If the order goes through, then I'm sure its still active. After MP left a bunch of people said they were scared this was the end of Ytsejam. Mike Brown is the guy that runs orders and he said it is still going and JP even ordered a bunch of new copies of several releases. This was years ago but I'm sure they would say something if they ever thought about ending it.
-
I've just ordered The Making of Scenes From A Memory.
But I'm afraid that I could lose my money if they are not shipping, do you know if they are still active?
If the order goes through, then I'm sure its still active. After MP left a bunch of people said they were scared this was the end of Ytsejam. Mike Brown is the guy that runs orders and he said it is still going and JP even ordered a bunch of new copies of several releases. This was years ago but I'm sure they would say something if they ever thought about ending it.
Hey, thanks a lot for the answer! :metal
Bucharest, Romania 7/4/02 is my favourite.
-
I would also add that several people on this forum (myself included) have ordered from there after Mike left DT, and I have not heard of anyone not getting their order. Of course, that in and of itself is not a guarantee. But Mike is a professional, and he would not still have the site set up to take orders if those orders could not be filled.
-
But Bosk, is Mike's organization ( for lack of a better term) still running it, or is someone under the DT umbrella doing so?
-
I believe it is still being run under Mike. I could be mistaken, but that is my impression. And I am also assuming that whatever split they worked out, he is getting a big enough portion of it by virtue of the fact that, despite the music collectively being the band's, the efforts to compile and put out that material were largely his. But that is just assumption on my part and admittedly could be wrong. But related to that, I think that's one of the reasons why Happy Holidays was released directly through the band's website and did not have the "Ytsejam Records" name attached.
-
Even though it got quite some votes, in the discussion the Scenes from a Memory remix has hardly been mentioned. It's like getting a second - and complete! - version of a wonderful album, only the Falling Into Infinity demos achieve this result (in fact I voted also for the FII demos), so it's great to have a different version of SFAM... you could also play around with the versions to create a personal mix, I did one after being inspired, back when I was a lurker, to someone posting here of his own personal version of it.
D'oh! I can't believe I forgot about that. I usually listen to that version rather than the official SFaM release, because there are some neat parts that are much more audible on that version.
-
I believe it is still being run under Mike. I could be mistaken, but that is my impression. And I am also assuming that whatever split they worked out, he is getting a big enough portion of it by virtue of the fact that, despite the music collectively being the band's, the efforts to compile and put out that material were largely his. But that is just assumption on my part and admittedly could be wrong. But related to that, I think that's one of the reasons why Happy Holidays was released directly through the band's website and did not have the "Ytsejam Records" name attached.
I'm under the impression that it is 100% run by Dream Theater in that it is contracted out through Mike Brown. If you are talking about Portnoy when you say "Mike," I would bet money that he is no longer involved in anyway shape or fashion. He compiled all of them and then JP handled the business side including getting new copies in stock and then they were shipped to Mike Brown who took care of fulfilling all of the orders himself.
I also believe that Mike Brown was a lot closer with Portnoy than he was the rest of the guys but hey, we even have posters here that have maintained their relationship with the band even though they seem to be a lot closer with Portnoy.
-
The only two I own are Bucharest, which is pretty essential (that set list is beastly), and When Dream and Day Reunite, which is pretty cool even though I have some issues with the sound of it; I still listen to the original WDADU when I am in the mood for those songs, simply because that record, for all of its flaws, still has a warmth and charm that is impossible to recapture live.
-
- Dark Side of the Moon (classic cover and DT's best imho)
- Santiago (that JP guitar tone and great setlist)
- Bucharest (a lot of songs we haven't seen live very much since)
- New York '93 (the original ACOS)
- the Making of Falling Into Infinity (with demoes of an entire album's worth of music that didn't make the official CD and some of the original arrangements of songs that were changed before the official FII release)
Honorable mention to When Dream and Day Reunite, though.
-
The only two I own are Bucharest, which is pretty essential (that set list is beastly), and When Dream and Day Reunite, which is pretty cool even though I have some issues with the sound of it; I still listen to the original WDADU when I am in the mood for those songs, simply because that record, for all of its flaws, still has a warmth and charm that is impossible to recapture live.
That's pretty much my view of both. Bucharest is such a great set list. Plus the bonus content on the second disc is awesome. WDADR is good but the vocals are hit and miss. The ending with everyone on stage for Metropolis makes up for some of the low points.
-
On a completely different topic, even tho I should be in bed, I did some digging in the Ytsejam Mailing List archives, and I found a couple things worth mentioning about the 5/18/98 gig and OiaL.
Regarding whether the 5/18/98 show was intended as a live album, here's what one fan said after the Lubbock, Texas show, which happened 4 days after the LA show:
I also talked to Labrie, asked him about a live album, and he said it's a very strong possibility in the near future. They're talking to the label about it.
And MP himself posted after the second LA show. Besides the setlists to both LA shows, here's what he said about the 5/18/98 show:
I have to say that this 2nd show goes down in the Dream Theater history books as one of the coolest of ALL TIME!!! The good news for everybody...... The entire show was recorded by Westwood One for a possible radio broadcast sometime in the future!! So you all may be in for a treat!!
So it's quite evident that MP thought this show was awesome, probably based largely on the setlist and the guests. At the time he posted this, it was only a day after the show, so I doubt he had a chance to give the show a listen to listen to the band's performance (including that of JL). But I know that he always graded the shows according to the venue, the audience and the band's performance, so I'm guessing he must've been under the impression that the performance was great overall. And I saw some of the subsequent posts by the fans who were pretty psyched to get their hands on this show. I'm guessing these would be the reasons why MP was willing to release this show.
Part of it was. (30 minutes maybe?) Westwood One packaged some of those tracks (like six songs including The Trooper and Killers) with some Primus live tracks for broadcast in July 2002.
I guess the suits didn't think Dream Theater was worthy of a whole one-hour live concert back then. (Or Primus for that matter.) (I have the CD)
My list of essentials chronologically goes like this:
Majesty Demos
When Dream and Day Unite Demos
Falling Into Infinity Demos
When Dream And Day Reunite (CD or DVD)
Old Bridge, New JERSEY - 12/14/96
New York City 3/4/93
Bucharest, Romania 7/4/02 (DVD only)
Santiago, Chile 12/6/05 (DVD only)
-
My top 5
Majesty Demos
FII Demos
WDADRU
Limelight
Bucharest
HM :
Images and Words Demos
Santiago
Moon
-
Well, I just spent several hours trying to order some items from ystejam records. Each click on an item took several minutes to load, then, after adding several items to my cart, I would get "0 items in your cart". I guess they don't actually want to sell stuff anymore?
-
MP isn't allowed to sell DT stuff after he left. Ytsejam was his thing, so that's why you can't order anymore.
-
You should still be able to order.
-
You should still be able to order.
After stubbornly persisting for another half hour, I was, finally, able to place my order. It seems like maybe the website is connected to the internet via dial-up.
-
The four I own are
I&W Demos
Making of SFaM
WDaDRu
NYC 3/4/93
I used to have the NYC show on a cassette that someone I met on Prodigy copied and sent me back in late '93. The CD was dying, so it was good to get it replaced on CD.
MP isn't allowed to sell DT stuff after he left. Ytsejam was his thing, so that's why you can't order anymore.
So...you've seen the agreement that was signed after he left?
I bought the Making of SFaM no more than 3-4 years ago and maybe got one of the others subsequent to MP leaving. When I received the Making of SFAM, one of the discs was cracked. I sent an e-mail to the "Contact Us" link and got an answer the next day and a replacement product about two days later.
My understanding is that the agreement allowed YtseJam Records to continue selling existing stock but can't produce new stock, and it looks like about 40% of the DT stuff is out of stock.
-
I bought the Making of SFaM no more than 3-4 years ago and maybe got one of the others subsequent to MP leaving. When I received the Making of SFAM, one of the discs was cracked. I sent an e-mail to the "Contact Us" link and got an answer the next day and a replacement product about two days later.
My understanding is that the agreement allowed YtseJam Records to continue selling existing stock but can't produce new stock, and it looks like about 40% of the DT stuff is out of stock.
I don't believe the band has at any point commented on exactly what the status is. But based on what I have seen actually occur since the MP/DT split, I believe your assessment is pretty accurate. I ordered a few things right after the split, just in case they weren't going to be available again, and I got them no problem. And I know of several people that have posted here that they have ordered even after the legalities were settled, and have gotten their stuff.
-
I bought the Making of SFaM no more than 3-4 years ago and maybe got one of the others subsequent to MP leaving. When I received the Making of SFAM, one of the discs was cracked. I sent an e-mail to the "Contact Us" link and got an answer the next day and a replacement product about two days later.
My understanding is that the agreement allowed YtseJam Records to continue selling existing stock but can't produce new stock, and it looks like about 40% of the DT stuff is out of stock.
I don't believe the band has at any point commented on exactly what the status is. But based on what I have seen actually occur since the MP/DT split, I believe your assessment is pretty accurate. I ordered a few things right after the split, just in case they weren't going to be available again, and I got them no problem. And I know of several people that have posted here that they have ordered even after the legalities were settled, and have gotten their stuff.
Yeah...when I mentioned "my understanding," I have no recollection of where that understanding came from. I remember when I ordered the Making of SFAM (after all the legalities were settled), I was a little worried that, while the site appeared to be operating normally, my order wouldn't be processed. However, as mentioned, my order was processed quickly AND customer service was quickly responsive when I reported the problem with the disc I received. I recall posting something on MP's forum giving kudos to the store and the specific person who responded to me.
-
I only have two - the Master of Puppets and Number of the Beast cover albums. Those are two of my all time favorite records and I loved having Dream Theater's take on them. I couldn't justify the prices on a lot of the others - even though a ton of work went into the final products, paying $15 to $20 for cd's is way too much money for me. More power to those that love them - if they were cheaper, I'd have enjoyed some of the live shows and demo sets.
-
When Dream and Day Re-Unite
easily the most essential of them all. This has practically become to definitive version of the debut album. I pretty much won't ever listen to the original album, but this live version with JLB and JR is fantastic. Plus the extra songs and Dominici/Sherinian are awesome.
The next four, I chose cover albums. Why? I don't care for demos so the making of albums are hardly essential, you'd just go listen to the actual album for what is essential. Then there are lots of good live albums. I'd say Santiago and Bucharest are the best. Have great setlists and some interesting covers and extended instrumentals on them that make them unique. However, DT has lots of better live albums in their main catalog. So I don't view any of those as essential.
In the end, I chose:
The Number of the Beast
Made in Japan
The Dark Side of the Moon
Uncovered
Why? Because that is the only place you will find DT playing these cover songs and they are all done really well. I find the MOP cover album to be my least favorite, I just don't like the way those songs came out. But these four, are all fantastic cover songs. To me, that is essential since this is the only place you can find those.
-
I don't care for demos so the making of albums are hardly essential, you'd just go listen to the actual album for what is essential.
I couldn't disagree more. For me, demos are "essential" where they are significantly different from what went onto the album and/or where they show the evolution of the songwriting. This is very evident from the I&W Demos discs. On the other hand, I believe Bosk informed me that the Awake Demos aren't much different from what's on the album, so I haven't bought them. Likewise, the Making of SFAM, which is far more than just demos, should be of great interest to any DT fan. There is a big chunk of it on YouTube that I would encourage you to check out. The alternative mixes are also quite interesting (at least IMO). A couple of them I prefer to what the band chose for the album.
-
I don't care for demos so the making of albums are hardly essential, you'd just go listen to the actual album for what is essential.
I couldn't disagree more. For me, demos are "essential" where they are significantly different from what went onto the album and/or where they show the evolution of the songwriting. This is very evident from the I&W Demos discs. On the other hand, I believe Bosk informed me that the Awake Demos aren't much different from what's on the album, so I haven't bought them. Likewise, the Making of SFAM, which is far more than just demos, should be of great interest to any DT fan. There is a big chunk of it on YouTube that I would encourage you to check out. The alternative mixes are also quite interesting (at least IMO). A couple of them I prefer to what the band chose for the album.
The only one of these demos I have is the SFAM one and I thought that was a waste of time. I think there was one track that was cool, I forget which one. But just because they are different doesn't mean they are essential to me. The reason they didn't make it is because it's not the essential verson of the song.
-
As cool as I always thought Ytsejam Records is as an entity, I've never been too interested in the product personally. The WDaDRU is quite enjoyable, and while some might have found being at that show a drag, I am glad it was recorded. And at least that was DT material. I'd be seriously pissed if I showed up at a DT show and got a full album's worth of Metallica.
Otherwise there are enough quality "official" live DT albums to keep me happy, I don't care for demos (see below) nor do I care for covers.
I don't care for demos so the making of albums are hardly essential, you'd just go listen to the actual album for what is essential.
I couldn't disagree more. For me, demos are "essential" where they are significantly different from what went onto the album and/or where they show the evolution of the songwriting.
Never would have thought of experiencing any artwork in any form other than its final rendition as "essential." A curiosity, maybe, but nothing more. I don't want to see a rough cut of The Godfather, or the first draft of The Shining. It would be in no way essential to my enjoyment of the actual final product.
-
I don't care for demos so the making of albums are hardly essential, you'd just go listen to the actual album for what is essential.
I couldn't disagree more. For me, demos are "essential" where they are significantly different from what went onto the album and/or where they show the evolution of the songwriting. This is very evident from the I&W Demos discs. On the other hand, I believe Bosk informed me that the Awake Demos aren't much different from what's on the album, so I haven't bought them. Likewise, the Making of SFAM, which is far more than just demos, should be of great interest to any DT fan. There is a big chunk of it on YouTube that I would encourage you to check out. The alternative mixes are also quite interesting (at least IMO). A couple of them I prefer to what the band chose for the album.
The only one of these demos I have is the SFAM one and I thought that was a waste of time. I think there was one track that was cool, I forget which one. But just because they are different doesn't mean they are essential to me. The reason they didn't make it is because it's not the essential verson of the song.
I'll put it this way: I'm glad I have it, and I am glad I have listened to it. It really sheds a lot of cool insight into the SFAM writing and recording sessions that merely reading about them cannot give you. From that perspective, it is one of the coolest things DT has ever put out for the fans, IMO. That said, it has very little replay value for me (and probably for most). I think I listened to the entire thing twice when I first got it, and maybe listened to the alternate mix a couple of times more. Realizing that it has been so long, I think I may revisit it again now. And, again, actually hearing it is a REALLY cool experience and a valuable one as a fan of the band and that album. But having had that experience, it isn't a product I will likely ever listen to very much again, despite loving that I have it in my collection.
-
I don't care for demos so the making of albums are hardly essential, you'd just go listen to the actual album for what is essential.
I couldn't disagree more. For me, demos are "essential" where they are significantly different from what went onto the album and/or where they show the evolution of the songwriting. This is very evident from the I&W Demos discs. On the other hand, I believe Bosk informed me that the Awake Demos aren't much different from what's on the album, so I haven't bought them. Likewise, the Making of SFAM, which is far more than just demos, should be of great interest to any DT fan. There is a big chunk of it on YouTube that I would encourage you to check out. The alternative mixes are also quite interesting (at least IMO). A couple of them I prefer to what the band chose for the album.
The only one of these demos I have is the SFAM one and I thought that was a waste of time. I think there was one track that was cool, I forget which one. But just because they are different doesn't mean they are essential to me. The reason they didn't make it is because it's not the essential verson of the song.
I'll put it this way: I'm glad I have it, and I am glad I have listened to it. It really sheds a lot of cool insight into the SFAM writing and recording sessions that merely reading about them cannot give you. From that perspective, it is one of the coolest things DT has ever put out for the fans, IMO. That said, it has very little replay value for me (and probably for most). I think I listened to the entire thing twice when I first got it, and maybe listened to the alternate mix a couple of times more. Realizing that it has been so long, I think I may revisit it again now. And, again, actually hearing it is a REALLY cool experience and a valuable one as a fan of the band and that album. But having had that experience, it isn't a product I will likely ever listen to very much again, despite loving that I have it in my collection.
I should say "waste of time" was kind of a bad way of putting it. There's value for the hardcore fan. I consider myself a hard core fan, but other than a first listen, it wasn't something to continually go back to. The final album is where it's at. That's essentially why it's not "essential" to me. Essentially what Cool Chris wrote regarding the same. But also, I am not a demo guy. It's cool to have, but I can't think of a single instance (including other bands) where I actively listen to demos. I would just always prefer the final product. I do admit, DT has a few demos that are cool like the FII ones that change the songs enough to make them super interesting, but they still are not as good as the final product IMO.
-
Yeah, I hear you. And I am basically of the same mind regarding demos. But I do go back to the FII demos from time to time, mostly for the additional songs.
-
Yeah, I hear you. And I am basically of the same mind regarding demos. But I do go back to the FII demos from time to time, mostly for the additional songs.
It's what makes the FII Demos the only essential demo.
I do have the I&W, and it is actually quite interesting. Essential? nah. But very interesting for a long time fan, especially of I&W.
-
The Majesty Demos 1985-1986
Gotta appreciate where the band began, and this is about as thorough as a starting point as we'll ever get. The actual demo album is pretty great for what it is, but the added pre-demo demos are pretty great insights into the youth of the members.
Falling Into Infinity Demos
As many may have said already, this is an amazing look into what the band wanted the songs to be before things got shuffled around. I love the original version of "Take Away My Pain", and the other original versions here (BMS, AL, LITS, etc.) are interesting enough to pick out the differences! Also, that Metropolis Part 2 Demo is worth the price of admission alone!
Tokyo, Japan 10/28/95
With all of the latter-day live albums here, I felt that there's enough post-Sherinian live stuff officially released that this Awake Tour show should get the spotlight (though I seriously did consider picking Bucharest here instead). A show with 7 Awake songs, 4 IAW songs, and ACOS in its entirety (with Sherinian) make this worth it, and that medley isn't too bad either. There's also solos for Derek and Mike, and a song that would become a JP solo tune! It's a unique look into a time of the band that I feel didn't get enough love.
When Dream And Day Reunite
This was, and still is, a landmark show, and I'm so thankful that the band had the foresight to put it together and release it for us fans to enjoy! The guests at the end for the encore are fantastic, and I really dig what Dominici did with his lines in Metropolis (there's one line that he syncopates that sounds SO good). The actual performance of WDADU is pretty stellar, too.
New York City 3/4/93
Had this show been officially released, it'd be up there with great prog live albums such as Exit...Stage Left, Yessongs, Seconds Out, and the like. We get all of IAW, plus the early version of ACOS (which was only played 4 times), 2 B-Sides (To Live Forever, Eve), and 3 of the better WDADU songs, all performed with the youthful energy of a band on the rise. When it comes to live DT, there are fewer albums I'll just put on and spin on a whim, and this is one of them. Hearing JLB in this is other-worldly, especially in TTT and LTL, but everyone else shines as well!
(Also, this is my first DT-forum-side post in a LONG time...lol This is a great topic of discussion, and might get me back into listening to DT regularly again)
-Marc.
-
Interesting that you list those two live shows, Marc, and that you hold them in such high regard. With all the great live releases DT have put out, I'll admit that I have barely spun those two and barely paid attention when I did. I think I will have to revisit them.
-
Interesting that you list those two live shows, Marc, and that you hold them in such high regard. With all the great live releases DT have put out, I'll admit that I have barely spun those two and barely paid attention when I did. I think I will have to revisit them.
Yea, actually those two live shows I dont have and have always considered that NYC show the one I should get next, but really haven't thought about it in awhile until this thread.
-
For me, the "Director's Cut" of FII is the definitive version, and the only one I really listen to (of the two). After that, I just picked the live releases (though I could easily have picked the Made In Japan and Dark Side covers as well).
Yes, agreed. So many gems on that one
-
Interesting that you list those two live shows, Marc, and that you hold them in such high regard. With all the great live releases DT have put out, I'll admit that I have barely spun those two and barely paid attention when I did. I think I will have to revisit them.
They're two of my favorites, TBH, and the NYC show in particular is a great look into Pre-Accident JLB, when his voice could do live what he recorded on IAW. If you love Live At The Marquee, there's no reason NOT to get this show.
And the Tokyo 95 show, while Post-Accident, still features JLB's youthful energy in his vocals. You can tell he wasn't on stage a lot with all of the instrumental sections, medleys, and solos throughout the show, but when he DOES sing, it's still phenomenal.
-Marc.
-
They're two of my favorites, TBH, and the NYC show in particular is a great look into Pre-Accident JLB, when his voice could do live what he recorded on IAW. If you love Live At The Marquee, there's no reason NOT to get this show.
Yeah, great point. I mean, it DOES still have Eve though. But I can always just hit "skip" and enjoy the rest, I suppose.
-
They're two of my favorites, TBH, and the NYC show in particular is a great look into Pre-Accident JLB, when his voice could do live what he recorded on IAW. If you love Live At The Marquee, there's no reason NOT to get this show.
Yeah, great point. I mean, it DOES still have Eve though. But I can always just hit "skip" and enjoy the rest, I suppose.
Psh, Eve is fine on this album. If all you've heard is the studio version, the live one is a bit better. They also throw in some voice samples as well, and the whole thing just feels more...well, live. The studio version feels flat compared to this one.
-Marc.
-
Well, I have heard it. I have all of the Ytsejam releases and have listened to them. I just haven't paid much attention to some, including the two live releases you mentioned, and I'm sure I either skipped or stopped paying attention when Eve was playing. I do vaguely recall the voice samples, but don't recall feeling like they added anything significant. If you like the song, cool. I never have and rank it at the bottom of the DT catalog among the few songs of theirs I can't stand. But you can have my piece, so more for you. :tup
-
Well, I have heard it. I have all of the Ytsejam releases and have listened to them. I just haven't paid much attention to some, including the two live releases you mentioned, and I'm sure I either skipped or stopped paying attention when Eve was playing. I do vaguely recall the voice samples, but don't recall feeling like they added anything significant. If you like the song, cool. I never have and rank it at the bottom of the DT catalog among the few songs of theirs I can't stand. But you can have my piece, so more for you. :tup
I don't LOVE it, per se, but as part of the time period, it fits well within the NYC show, and makes for a fine lead-in into PMU!
I also love how many continuous runs of songs there are in this show - Metropolis/AFIL, Eve/PMU, and Another Day/Another Hand/The Killing Hand, as well as the obvious WFS/LTL combo in the encore.
-Marc.
-
I've just ordered The Making of Scenes From A Memory.
But I'm afraid that I could lose my money if they are not shipping, do you know if they are still active?
The vocal demo of Spirit Carries On with JP and Bongo is amazing and a great example of how you can't just have anyone sing like it's nothing.
-
I've just ordered The Making of Scenes From A Memory.
But I'm afraid that I could lose my money if they are not shipping, do you know if they are still active?
The vocal demo of Spirit Carries On with JP and Bongo is amazing and a great example of how you can't just have anyone sing like it's nothing.
One of the best things on there!
-
The Bucharest and When Dream And Day Reunite DVDs are the two essential ones I'd say. Better than most of the official main DVD releases; they're just really awesome, and any DT fan's collection would be incomplete without them.
Aside from those two, I really don't know; it's really up to the individual. The FII demos seem like an obvious choice, but the sound quality is exceptionally poor, and it's out of stock. The I&W demos seem like another good choice, but a lot of the really cool things on there are just things you'd listen to once or twice, or stuff that isn't as good as stuff you can get elsewhere(ACOS demo doesn't use James LaBrie, there's a really nice version with LaBrie on vocals you can get from the unofficial bootleg Antiquities; ditto for Don't Look Past Me, but there's also the Cleaning Out The Closet/Lifting Shadows version)...
So... I dunno.
I bought the Making of SFaM no more than 3-4 years ago and maybe got one of the others subsequent to MP leaving. When I received the Making of SFAM, one of the discs was cracked. I sent an e-mail to the "Contact Us" link and got an answer the next day and a replacement product about two days later.
My understanding is that the agreement allowed YtseJam Records to continue selling existing stock but can't produce new stock, and it looks like about 40% of the DT stuff is out of stock.
I don't believe the band has at any point commented on exactly what the status is. But based on what I have seen actually occur since the MP/DT split, I believe your assessment is pretty accurate. I ordered a few things right after the split, just in case they weren't going to be available again, and I got them no problem. And I know of several people that have posted here that they have ordered even after the legalities were settled, and have gotten their stuff.
I'm not sure how true this is, actually.
At one point, I did send an email asking about whether the I&W and FII demos would ever be restocked, the response to which was pretty much "No idea. Probably not?"
However, only a few weeks later, the Majesty Demos CD -- which had been out of stock for at least a few months -- was suddenly in-stock again for a while. I didn't get a chance to actually place an order for a copy, but it did indeed restock.
I don't know what the YtseJam Records situation is, but whatever it is, stuff can still be sold, and it seems that some items may be able to be restocked, but it's pretty unclear.
-
I miss the Ytsejam releases... :'(
I really used to look forward to when Mike would announce the upcoming titles.
I also recall he was asked & listed what would have been the next batch of releases somewhere that were pretty cool.
I have them all & will continue to get them should any more be available.
Surely the band & MP can come to some licensing agreement in a mature way.
-
I miss the Ytsejam releases... :'(
I really used to look forward to when Mike would announce the upcoming titles.
I also recall he was asked & listed what would have been the next batch of releases somewhere that were pretty cool.
I have them all & will continue to get them should any more be available.
Surely the band & MP can come to some licensing agreement in a mature way.
Probably not worth the hassle though, but I can only think of the BCSL shows as a possible "unreleased ytse jam" bootleg.
-
I miss the Ytsejam releases... :'(
I really used to look forward to when Mike would announce the upcoming titles.
I also recall he was asked & listed what would have been the next batch of releases somewhere that were pretty cool.
I have them all & will continue to get them should any more be available.
Surely the band & MP can come to some licensing agreement in a mature way.
My guess (and it's nothing but a guess) is that, while the band was around, one or more of he other members of DT wasn't fond of some of the bootleg/making of releases through the Ytse Jam Store, but the band's internal governing agreements provided no real way to curtail MP's activity in that regard. Therefore, when MP left and there was a new agreement signed (while I don't have any inside info, it's impossible to believe that MP and the rest of the band didn't sign some sort of agreement in connection with MP's departure), the YJS activity was curtailed. I expressed earlier in this thread that my understanding (from something I read somewhere) was that the YJS was allowed to continue selling existing stock, but that nothing new would be produced. Bosk, who has a greater degree of inside knowledge than I, seemed to confirm that my understanding was roughly accurate.
With that said, it's not a matter of "com[ing] to some licensing agreement in a mature way." It would be a matter of MP having the desire to release something new and DT being willing to reconsider. My assumption is that, the further removed he gets from DT, the less likely MP will have interest in revisiting DT material. I also have no reason to believe JP/JM/JLB/JR would want to change their minds about this. Of course, MP could release similar stuff for his other projects, but he probably would do that through a different platform.
Probably not worth the hassle though, but I can only think of the BCSL shows as a possible "unreleased ytse jam" bootleg.
Other than the Santiago show, there's nothing post-ToT. I would imagine there could be some "making of Octavarium" stuff that could be very interesting. I personally wouldn't be interested in anything relating to SC or BC&SL, but that could be out there as well.
-
Man, I wish I had picked up a copy of the I&W and FII demos when they were available.
-
I thought they were still selling and reproducing whats already there, and they weren't making any more newer releases from MP's archives?
-
Probably not worth the hassle though, but I can only think of the BCSL shows as a possible "unreleased ytse jam" bootleg.
Other than the Santiago show, there's nothing post-ToT. I would imagine there could be some "making of Octavarium" stuff that could be very interesting. I personally wouldn't be interested in anything relating to SC or BC&SL, but that could be out there as well.
As I recall, the bootlegs MP had lined up were...
Download Festival 2009 DVD;
Summer Sonic Festival 2010 DVD;
Rush live covers compilation (Likely CD);
The Making Of Six Degrees (Presumably CD);
1998-12-30 (https://mikeportnoy.com/dates/MPTourography/ShowInfo.aspx?showId=466) live CD.
It is somewhat unclear as to whether the BCSL DVDs would have been simply those two shows in full as DVDs, or whether it would have been a compilation like Chaos In Motion was(I remember it as the latter, this post from Setlist Scotty (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=50124.msg2308596#msg2308596) suggests it was the former. Not sure who's right here, so I've assumed Setlist Scotty knows better than I do), but regardless, having some BCSL live stuff officially released would have been nice, and that 1998 CD would have been unbelievable.
-
Oh wow yea that 98 show looks like a gem and I don't think I realized they had enough rush covers to release a CD.
-
Probably not worth the hassle though, but I can only think of the BCSL shows as a possible "unreleased ytse jam" bootleg.
Other than the Santiago show, there's nothing post-ToT. I would imagine there could be some "making of Octavarium" stuff that could be very interesting. I personally wouldn't be interested in anything relating to SC or BC&SL, but that could be out there as well.
As I recall, the bootlegs MP had lined up were...
Download Festival 2009 DVD;
Summer Sonic Festival 2010 DVD;
Rush live covers compilation (Likely CD);
The Making Of Six Degrees (Presumably CD);
1998-12-30 (https://mikeportnoy.com/dates/MPTourography/ShowInfo.aspx?showId=466) live CD.
It is somewhat unclear as to whether the BCSL DVDs would have been simply those two shows in full as DVDs, or whether it would have been a compilation like Chaos In Motion was(I remember it as the latter, this post from Setlist Scotty (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=50124.msg2308596#msg2308596) suggests it was the former. Not sure who's right here, so I've assumed Setlist Scotty knows better than I do), but regardless, having some BCSL live stuff officially released would have been nice, and that 1998 CD would have been unbelievable.
Because both shows were festival gigs with short setlists, and because there was little overlap, I'm pretty sure both shows would've been included in full on the same DVD.
And you're correct about all the other releases being on CD only. Typically, each batch of official bootlegs included only one DVD; the rest were CD only.
I don't think I realized they had enough rush covers to release a CD.
They do, although I wish they would've actually covered a full Rush album (which would've been Moving Pictures) and included the other tracks as bonus material, as they did for Dark Side of the Moon. But still having a compilation of the Rush covers would have been nice...
-
As I recall, the bootlegs MP had lined up were...
Download Festival 2009 DVD;
Pull Me Under
Constant Motion
A Rite of Passage
Hollow Years
The Count of Tuscany
Encore: Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
Summer Sonic Festival 2010 DVD;
A Nightmare to Remember
A Rite of Passage
Prophets of War
Wither
The Count of Tuscany
Pull Me Under / Metropolis Pt. 1
These above two shows would've been AMAZING to own, as a piece of history for the band on their short BC&SL tour(s). Between the two, we would've gotten four BC&SL songs, plus the one SC song they hadn't played on the SC Tour, as well as a KILLER version of "Hollow Years" (a video of which exists on YouTube, I believe, with some interesting fans in the crowd...). A 2-DVD set of these two together would've been an instant purchase from me.
Rush live covers compilation (Likely CD);
I think MP had always planned to release the DT Rush covers after an album-performance, much in the vein of The Dark Side Of The Moon release, which included several Pink Floyd covers on the bonus disc. Which album they might have covered, I do not know, but it would've been amazing regardless. As both a DT and Rush fan, this would've been an instant purchase as well.
The Making Of Six Degrees (Presumably CD);
This could have been interesting. I did find it odd that it was pretty much skipped in terms of making-of/demo releases, so I always wondered if they even kept anything that could constitute a decent Making Of/Demos album for SDOIT. I'm sure I would've bought it at some point, but how fast would've been dependent on how interesting the material would be.
1998-12-30 (https://mikeportnoy.com/dates/MPTourography/ShowInfo.aspx?showId=466) live CD.
Oh yes, the Poughkeepsie show, most interesting for all of the covers and medleys, and performances of four of the five FII B-Sides ("Raise The Knife" being the absent song). This would have been great to own officially, though according to the MP Setlist page, it says it has a release, which I assume to be a circulated bootleg. I don't think I ever downloaded that one back when I was huge into DIME and downloading live boots from bands like DT, Rush, Genesis, Yes, etc. Given the amount of Sherinian-era live shows already released (Tokyo 95, New Jersey 96, LA 98, and the official OIALT release), I bet there was some reluctance to release another show with him on it, though given his short run with DT, as a fan, I would not mind hearing more of his time with the band, especially in the intimate live setting this show was done in.
-Marc.
-
As I recall, the bootlegs MP had lined up were...
Download Festival 2009 DVD;
Pull Me Under
Constant Motion
A Rite of Passage
Hollow Years
The Count of Tuscany
Encore: Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
TCoT wasn't played at this show.
I think MP had always planned to release the DT Rush covers after an album-performance, much in the vein of The Dark Side Of The Moon release, which included several Pink Floyd covers on the bonus disc.
Correct.
Which album they might have covered, I do not know, but it would've been amazing regardless.
PSSSSSSSST!!!!
I wish they would've actually covered a full Rush album (which would've been Moving Pictures)
;)
Given the amount of Sherinian-era live shows already released (Tokyo 95, New Jersey 96, LA 98, and the official OIALT release), I bet there was some reluctance to release another show with him on it, though given his short run with DT
I don't think so. Aside from the LA 98 show, the setlists are pretty varied between every one of the live releases from DS's time with the band. And the Poughkeepsie show was probably the most varied of them all. I think that's what MP was most interested in - providing official bootlegs with different setlists, instead of bootlegs with setlists that were very similar.
-
Not to be the Yang to someone's Yin, but:
Pull Me Under
Constant Motion
A Rite of Passage
Hollow Years
The Count of Tuscany
Encore: Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
A Nightmare to Remember
A Rite of Passage
Prophets of War
Wither
The Count of Tuscany
Pull Me Under / Metropolis Pt. 1
Rush live covers compilation (Likely CD);
1998-12-30 (https://mikeportnoy.com/dates/MPTourography/ShowInfo.aspx?showId=466) live CD.
Sounds like the lamest bunch of options.
Videos of PMU, Metropolis, Rite of Passage (Twice!), Wither, CM performed at festivals... yawn.
Said my thoughts on their cover performances enough in other threads.
-
As I recall, the bootlegs MP had lined up were...
Download Festival 2009 DVD;
Pull Me Under
Constant Motion
A Rite of Passage
Hollow Years
The Count of Tuscany
Encore: Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
TCoT wasn't played at this show.
Gah, setlist.fm LIED to me!!! Ah well...
I think MP had always planned to release the DT Rush covers after an album-performance, much in the vein of The Dark Side Of The Moon release, which included several Pink Floyd covers on the bonus disc.
Correct.
Which album they might have covered, I do not know, but it would've been amazing regardless.
PSSSSSSSST!!!!
I wish they would've actually covered a full Rush album (which would've been Moving Pictures)
;)
:rollin :facepalm: - I guess I didn't read above very carefully! Oops... a Moving Pictures cover would've been neat, and they would've beat Rush to it, I'm sure. Would we have gotten two performances of "The Camera Eye" from DT then? Hmm...
Given the amount of Sherinian-era live shows already released (Tokyo 95, New Jersey 96, LA 98, and the official OIALT release), I bet there was some reluctance to release another show with him on it, though given his short run with DT
I don't think so. Aside from the LA 98 show, the setlists are pretty varied between every one of the live releases from DS's time with the band. And the Poughkeepsie show was probably the most varied of them all. I think that's what MP was most interested in - providing official bootlegs with different setlists, instead of bootlegs with setlists that were very similar.
Well, I don't disagree. Looking back at the shows after I posted my reply earlier, I did realize each show was fairly different from one another, and even if there were songs shared between them, the performances were different enough to warrant release. Hearing that Poughkeepsie show would be a treat, though!
-Marc.
-
Because both shows were festival gigs with short setlists, and because there was little overlap, I'm pretty sure both shows would've been included in full on the same DVD.
And you're correct about all the other releases being on CD only. Typically, each batch of official bootlegs included only one DVD; the rest were CD only.
Thought that might be the case; didn't want to say without being certain, though. Thanks for clarifying. :)
These above two shows would've been AMAZING to own, as a piece of history for the band on their short BC&SL tour(s). Between the two, we would've gotten four BC&SL songs, plus the one SC song they hadn't played on the SC Tour, as well as a KILLER version of "Hollow Years" (a video of which exists on YouTube, I believe, with some interesting fans in the crowd...). A 2-DVD set of these two together would've been an instant purchase from me.
Agreed. Would've been damn awesome. :)
I always thought it was a big shame there's no official live release documenting the BCSL tour, and this would've done the job very nicely. Not quite to the degree of perfection that Bucharest managed this for the 6DoiT tour, but it'd be really nice. :biggrin:
Oh yes, the Poughkeepsie show, most interesting for all of the covers and medleys, and performances of four of the five FII B-Sides ("Raise The Knife" being the absent song). This would have been great to own officially, though according to the MP Setlist page, it says it has a release, which I assume to be a circulated bootleg. I don't think I ever downloaded that one back when I was huge into DIME and downloading live boots from bands like DT, Rush, Genesis, Yes, etc. Given the amount of Sherinian-era live shows already released (Tokyo 95, New Jersey 96, LA 98, and the official OIALT release), I bet there was some reluctance to release another show with him on it, though given his short run with DT, as a fan, I would not mind hearing more of his time with the band, especially in the intimate live setting this show was done in.
-Marc.
That show does indeed have a bootleg, but it's not very well-circulated outside of a certain circle of bootleg traders; it's a "Grateful Dreams" bootleg, which... Well... Strap yourself in, you've just unwittingly opened a personal can of worms of mine. Apologies in advance, you're about to read a ulyssesian ramble...
Okay, so, controversial opinion time: I think the Grateful Dreams rules are outdated and have become somewhat draconian with time... Basically, you're not allowed to share Grateful Dreams shows digitally over the internet, you are only permitted to trade them physically, usually by the post, which involves buying a set of CD-Rs, setting up your burner to burn bit-accurately(Presuming you have a functional burner), burning the bootleg to the CD-Rs(Unless your CD-Rs are duds), posting them to the intended recipient, and presumably they download the artwork from the Grateful Dreams site(And maybe they'll keep the discs around as souvenirs of the trade?). Originally, this was established back in the late '90s or so, back when internet trading was the wild west; everything was lossy, and no one respected the wishes of the tapers of the bootlegs, and the rules have kind of stuck around as a tradition. Wasteland once described it to me as a mark of professionalism, like wearing white at Wimbledon.
Anyway, basically what this means is you have to find someone to physically post you burned CDs(Or meet up with them in person) to actually get any Grateful Dreams stuff... People like Weymolith and Wasteland who have this stuff are friendly folks who I'd never say a word against, but in my view, giving someone my real actual address is quite a big deal(Aside from the typical reservations you'd expect, I do have to be very careful these days; long story short, there are some toxic members of the Dragon Ball fandom who've doxxed a few of my friends, sharing their physical addresses and full names, and if given the chance, those people would definitely do the same to me, so I'm very cautious. Additionally, I've had some bad experiences in the past few months with people I thought I could trust publicly sharing private messages I'd sent in confidence), and to be brutally honest, this all sounds like a really decadant way of sending files to each-other, so...
Ultimately, while I don't know about you, from where I'm standing, this isn't really an option for me.
In my view, it is rather frustrating that if this last batch of official bootlegs had gone through, I could own a copy of this show, but as it stands, my only option would be to give my home address to some guy on the internet I've only had a handful of conversations with... Not sure I want it that badly...
On top of this, a few of these circulate online as MP3s(One guy sent me a link to this very bootleg we're talking about a while back, along with a few others I think. No idea where they got it, and admittedly I never listened to the files myself, so they could be fake. I doubt it, though), and one guy even uploaded Cover My Eyes from this bootleg to YouTube... So... This whole situation kind of confuses me, if I'm honest...
Anyway... That's why you never saw this show on Dimeadozen, that's why this show isn't as widely-circulated as you'd think, and that's a bunch of things about me that are probably all massively boring to everyone else in the world. On the plus side, I have the bootlegs of the 26th, 27th, 28th, and 29th shows from December '98, and will gladly send them to you if you wish, but on the minus side, they're mostly rather poor-quality recordings, and probably pale in comparison to the Grateful Dreams release, which as I understand had some top-notch audio mastering done on it.
Apologies to any Grateful Dreams staff I may have offended over the course of this over-long drivel I've written here. I'm not out to offend or hurt anyone, and I am deeply sorry if I have done so.
-
I do want to offer a word of caution that I don't want to get too far off topic and have this veer into an extended discussion of GDT. But with that said, I'll just offer my short two cents.
I think the very...er, "draconian," for lack of a better term, rules at GDT were a very good and positive They served a very valuable purpose, IMO, and not only provided a means and an incentive for those fan recordings to be higher quality than the norm, but also, as you noted, preserved a level of integrity. They also served the purpose of keeping the gatekeeper of those fan recordings, a certain Mr. Portnoy, pacified, which allowed such trading and circulating to go unhindered by the band.
On the flip side, I somewhat agree that the rules/processes may seem a bit obsolete and in need of updating nowadays. But as I am sure you know, Rob, there are often behind-the-scenes reasons why things are done as they are done. And at the end of the day, GDT can make whatever rules its staff deem best, all interests considered.
-
I do want to offer a word of caution that I don't want to get too far off topic and have this veer into an extended discussion of GDT. But with that said, I'll just offer my short two cents.
I think the very...er, "draconian," for lack of a better term, rules at GDT were a very good and positive They served a very valuable purpose, IMO, and not only provided a means and an incentive for those fan recordings to be higher quality than the norm, but also, as you noted, preserved a level of integrity. They also served the purpose of keeping the gatekeeper of those fan recordings, a certain Mr. Portnoy, pacified, which allowed such trading and circulating to go unhindered by the band.
On the flip side, I somewhat agree that the rules/processes may seem a bit obsolete and in need of updating nowadays. But as I am sure you know, Rob, there are often behind-the-scenes reasons why things are done as they are done. And at the end of the day, GDT can make whatever rules its staff deem best, all interests considered.
Indeed. I've never been involved in any GDT stuff, so I'm not really familiar with any behind-the-scenes stuff, so I'm not assuming I know better than anyone. Just gets a little frustrating from my position to see this stuff behind what ends up feeling like a fairly odd rule nowadays, which kind of blocks me off.
Still, it's kind of just a personal gripe of mine, and I'm not expecting to effect any change with this out in the air; if the GDT staff end up deciding to change the rules and I've been even the smallest part of that, then great, but I'm sure that, as you say, they have their reasons, and these rules have stood for many, many years without change, so even if a change was decided on, there's probably a lot to consider there, and at the time the rules were absolutely essential, so... I'm just some guy online complaining, I don't imagine any of this is of any consequence, when it comes down to it. Still, feels good to offer my two cents on the matter, at least.
(BTW, my name's not Rob. It would make sense if that was how I got my username, but I came up with it when I was like 8, so I don't actually recall any specific logic behind it. :lol)