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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: winghead on February 10, 2016, 08:29:39 AM
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After what he's done on the Astonishing and with how much incredible work he's done I feel like he should be regarded as one of rock's greatest frontmen. As much as I love the instrumentals, he is my favorite part of most DT songs . I still sometimes feel like the other members of the band don't fully see him as a democratic member of the band and after this long , they should. If I'm
Off base please correct me. I have not been a fan for as long as many of you have I'm sure
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I for one have always loved James LaBrie, but I know his singing divides opinions among the fanbase
I would argue that no one can say he did a bad job with this album. I love his work on it so much I almost want to cry
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He did a fantastic job. But I don't see anyone saying anything less, so I'm not sure what "more" credit he deserves.
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It's strange that his voice is so divisive to people who call DT their favorite band. He's really integral to the sound . It's kind of like saying Aerosmith is my favorite band but I hate Steven Tyler. I guess it's possible but unlikely. And yes he deserves a shrine built to him for his work on this beast of an album.
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He did a fantastic job. But I don't see anyone saying anything less, so I'm not sure what "more" credit he deserves.
That.
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Since MP left, to me at least, I've enjoyed his singing better on albums. Maybe having more control was better for him.
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James Labrie is the voice of Dream Theater, and his band members are proud and privileged to have him! My older brother and his wife were up visiting last weekend and I put in TA cd and played the whole album. They said the lead singer has the voice of an Angel and the music was captivating. They are now wanting to see them live for the TA tour. They had not heard much of DT before that. I also had a lady friend over that came and joined us for the evening and she too was floored by the music and Vocals on this album, and she had never heard of DT. She somehow connected to the lyrics in her own personal way on some of the songs. She kept saying that singer is amazing, and wants to see them live too.
So I have won over 3 new DT fans with this new album..
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Since MP left, to me at least, I've enjoyed his singing better on albums. Maybe having more control was better for him.
Yeah, if MP were part of this project we would have been subjected to his Nafayrius death growls. No thanks.
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Again with the pointless speculative digs at MP. What's the point?
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James has been impressing the hell out of me since 2003. When I saw them on the co-headlining tour with Queensryche they'd been out of the spotlight for about a year, and he looked healthier, sounded better, and upstaged Geoff Tate during their encore duets. I haven't seen a bad performance from him since.
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Since MP left, to me at least, I've enjoyed his singing better on albums. Maybe having more control was better for him.
This is what I was thinking too, his vocals seems better than ever and maybe they are writing songs that are more suited to his voice.
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Since MP left, to me at least, I've enjoyed his singing better on albums. Maybe having more control was better for him.
This is what I was thinking too, his vocals seems better than ever and maybe they are writing songs that are more suited to his voice.
Good point, the songs especially on The Astonishing are especially giving him a chance to soar. I like James voice for the MP era too. "Score" comes to mind..
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James Labrie is the voice of Dream Theater, and his band members are proud and privileged to have him! My older brother and his wife were up visiting last weekend and I put in TA cd and played the whole album. They said the lead singer has the voice of an Angel and the music was captivating. They are now wanting to see them live for the TA tour. They had not heard much of DT before that. I also had a lady friend over that came and joined us for the evening and she too was floored by the music and Vocals on this album, and she had never heard of DT. She somehow connected to the lyrics in her own personal way on some of the songs. She kept saying that singer is amazing, and wants to see them live too.
So I have won over 3 new DT fans with this new album..
Wow I wish my friends were like that ._. Good on you!
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James is one of my favorite singers, but let's be honest, he's not a great frontman.
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I have heard plenty of negative comments for years about James from non DT fans and some criticism from DT fans. I have always liked him as the front man of DT and hope that it never changes. He is pretty astonishing on this latest effort, I think his best work ever! :tup
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James Labrie is the voice of Dream Theater, and his band members are proud and privileged to have him! My older brother and his wife were up visiting last weekend and I put in TA cd and played the whole album. They said the lead singer has the voice of an Angel and the music was captivating. They are now wanting to see them live for the TA tour. They had not heard much of DT before that. I also had a lady friend over that came and joined us for the evening and she too was floored by the music and Vocals on this album, and she had never heard of DT. She somehow connected to the lyrics in her own personal way on some of the songs. She kept saying that singer is amazing, and wants to see them live too.
So I have won over 3 new DT fans with this new album..
Wow I wish my friends were like that ._. Good on you!
I got lucky on this one, most of my friends won't give Dream Theater the time of day. They are stuck in the past with Ozzy, Metallica, AC/DC, Pearl Jam, etc. Which is ok, but they just don't want to make the effort to try something different. People are weird that way.. ???
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Again with the pointless speculative digs at MP. What's the point?
Hold on, I'm a huge fan of MP, I just know I wouldn't like his influence on this album.
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the last tour I saw him in uk last summer, wacken he was struggling a bit at the beginning, but still great.
this album is all about james and Jordan.
fantastic vocals on this album
love his last solo record.
there are not many guys in their fifties that can reach those high notes so well.
Robert plant gave up years ago and they were downtuning the songs
james still has a wonderful singing range
like to hear more rock voice though, his ballad voice has always been a hanky job
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I just find that most of the interview by band members really don't talk about him much if at all, and he seems to not be given much press opportunity. John and Jordan seem to dominate it. To me James not being the vocalist for DT is the same as Rush without Geddy, Queen without Freddie etc.
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a hanky job
Googled it and came up empty. What does this mean?
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It's strange that his voice is so divisive to people who call DT their favorite band. He's really integral to the sound . It's kind of like saying Aerosmith is my favorite band but I hate Steven Tyler. I guess it's possible but unlikely.
I have a hard time grasping this concept as well, but DT are very technical so Petrucci or Rudess' abilities are already enough to draw in people who are musicians or are really into the technical side of things. Whereas with Aerosmith it's all about a nice and good rock n' roll / blues song.
So in a sense I understand that for some people Petrucci, Portnoy or Rudess are already enough to like the band and don't like the vocals, but still... James IS the voice of Dream Theater. He's been there on every album except the debut, so whatever music exists from 1991 onwards, has been created for James' voice. There is no counterproof whatsoever that another singer would be fitting, because except the debut the songs have always been James' to sing.
To make another example... look, I totally and completely dislike Ozzy's voice, never liked him as a singer or even as a person, but he helped to shape the sound of Black Sabbath, and the only reason we're discussing Black Sabbath today is because Ozzy's voice was part of the first incarnation of the band that got famous. Sure a dime and dozen singers could have done a better job, but if we're even entertaining the possibility of thinking about it, it's because Ozzy and no one else was there at the beginning.
Same for James - I love his voice and while with my brain I understand why people may not like him, with my heart I just think a giant WTF whenever someone dislikes his voice. There's an alternate reality where DT never found James and either continued as an instrumental act, or found a random singer and stayed in relative obscurity for the rest of their carrer.
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I'm not sure what it is, but James has sounded better since MP left. I've always loved his singing on studio albums but it's just getting even better. TA is James' best album. So many different vocal styles and he nails all of them.
I have never enjoyed James live as much as in studio though, except on Score. I don't know why that is, but even then it's amazing how well he does considering that many of the songs can be hard to sing live. If he always sounded like he did on Score this wouldn't even be an issue but I know that's not really realistic.
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I'm not sure what it is, but James has sounded better since MP left. I've always loved his singing on studio albums but it's just getting even better. TA is James' best album. So many different vocal styles and he nails all of them.
I have never enjoyed James live as much as in studio though, except on Score. I don't know why that is, but even then it's amazing how well he does considering that many of the songs can be hard to sing live. If he always sounded like he did on Score this wouldn't even be an issue but I know that's not really realistic.
I've never minded his singing live since he got his issues sorted out before the SFAM tour. Admittedly, when I saw them in like... 97-98 ish with the FII tour... it wasn't his best performance and to this day I can't listen to the "Once in a Live Time" release without cringing a bit.
But he was was having some issues then and since the SFAM tour, he's come out and sang solid and clear every time I've seen him. I was really impressed with how well he sang on the old Awake songs last go around during D12's tour. The "crew" I go see DT shows with every tour all had the same thought leaving the show.
"Man, James is freakin nailing it still."
Can't wait to hear him sing this live. Willing to bet it's gonna be amazing... and god I hope he does the laugh live X]
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Again with the pointless speculative digs at MP. What's the point?
I'm not digging at him but I do believe that they were butting heads and MP did push for James to sing a certain style for certain songs. James seems to be better of late when he has control on how he sings.
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I was really impressed with how well he sang on the old Awake songs last go around during D12's tour. The "crew" I go se DT shows with every tour all had the same thought leaving the show.
"Man, James is freakin nailing it still."
Can't wait to hear him sing this live. Willing to bet it's gonna be amazing... and god I hope he does the laugh live X]
Yeah, the last 2 tours are definitely the best he's sounded live in a long time IMO. He's a lot more consistent and I'm hoping that continues on for this tour. And I agree, hope he does that laugh!
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James is one of my favorite singers, but let's be honest, he's not a great frontman.
In what regard?? I can't really find much fault with him as a front man. I believe he's simply poised. Dream Theater
isn't the kind of band that calls for an over the top, flashy, overly charismatic, or perhaps obnoxious singer.
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James is one of my favorite singers, but let's be honest, he's not a great frontman.
He doesn't try to be a great frontman. DT fans know that, and they know what to expect from him on the stage.
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Giving my respect for JLB, he is great on this album! I've never been one to bash him so I won't start now, but I will say as much as I love him, I wouldn't rate him a top "front man". He has gotten much better at that role though since MP left.
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Yeah, the last 2 tours are definitely the best he's sounded live in a long time IMO. He's a lot more consistent and I'm hoping that continues on for this tour. And I agree, hope he does that laugh!
I have a theory on why he's been so much better and consistent on the last two tours. I believe it's a direct result of having a setlist more or less locked in for the whole tour. Portnoy's ever changing stylists were a cool idea, but man, I can't imagine having to be able to physically pull off any given song in DT's catalogue on any given night. Very challenging material to try and sing and sing well at the best of times. With the consistency of a locked in setlist it gives the guy a chance for muscle memory to do the heavy lifting and really work on stage presence and delivery, and not focussing all energy on just trying not to screw up.
I saw them during the SC tour and the adtoe tour. There was no comparison between the two vocal performances, James' adtoe performance was leagues ahead of the SC one. He looked like a new man.
And I think James, is gonna absolutely kill it on the astonishing in a live setting. I'm expecting some more cool vocal fireworks thrown in during the live set too. Should be awesome.
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He did a fantastic job. But I don't see anyone saying anything less, so I'm not sure what "more" credit he deserves.
I was just going to say that. Even the people who thought the album was "meh" pretty much unanimously acknowledge that this was his best album in a long time, if not ever.
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He did a fantastic job. But I don't see anyone saying anything less, so I'm not sure what "more" credit he deserves.
I was just going to say that. Even the people who thought the album was "meh" pretty much unanimously acknowledge that this was his best album in a long time, if not ever.
Let's not go overboard.
Don't get me wrong, I think JLB is great on the new album, his best of the RR era for sure, but I don't think it's all that like many people do.
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He did a fantastic job, excellent. But it might have something to do with him singing within his range and being comfortable.
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He did a fantastic job. But I don't see anyone saying anything less, so I'm not sure what "more" credit he deserves.
I was just going to say that. Even the people who thought the album was "meh" pretty much unanimously acknowledge that this was his best album in a long time, if not ever.
Let's not go overboard.
Don't get me wrong, I think JLB is great on the new album, his best of the RR era for sure, but I don't think it's all that like many people do.
I may be slow, but I don't even understand the last part of your sentence. ??? :rollin (it probably has more to do with me than with your post)
Anyway, I don't think it's JLB's best performance, but it's very very good. And about the MP thing, I tend to agree with Blob here : JLB singing the way he did when MP was still in the band had as much to do with MP as it had to do with JP. Granted, the dynamics changed when MP left and I guess that's what accounts for JLB improving. As has also already been said, he now sings in a zone that is more comfortable for him.
B.Lee
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Hi there, newbie here. :)
I'm a fan since 2007 and I've heard him on every album but his voice has definitely changed over the course of 25 years. On album he has remained pretty consistent in vocal range but it's live that he isn't always up to his usual standard, I saw a concert in Wacken on Youtube (don't know what year it was), and he just couldn't sustain the high notes. It was more screaming than singing, pretty embarrassing, I think he must've been quite ill that day. When he's recording an album and not feeling well, he can just come back another day. That's the problem with live performances. Also to be a vocalist in DT you have to be albe to do the full range, for 2.5 - 3 hours almost non-stop.
He's a great singer in my book. He's as much an integral part of DT as the other members. His contribution on The Astonishing is flawless.
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Hi there, newbie here. :)
I'm a fan since 2007 and I've heard him on every album but his voice has definitely changed over the course of 25 years. On album he has remained pretty consistent in vocal range but it's live that he isn't always up to his usual standard, I saw a concert in Wacken on Youtube (don't know what year it was), and he just couldn't sustain the high notes. It was more screaming than singing, pretty embarrassing, I think he must've been quite ill that day. When he's recording an album and not feeling well, he can just come back another day. That's the problem with live performances. Also to be a vocalist in DT you have to be albe to do the full range, for 2.5 - 3 hours almost non-stop.
He's a great singer in my book. He's as much an integral part of DT as the other members. His contribution on The Astonishing is flawless.
Hello, SolidSnake, welcome to DTF. Good post btw.
B.Lee
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He did a fantastic job. But I don't see anyone saying anything less, so I'm not sure what "more" credit he deserves.
I was just going to say that. Even the people who thought the album was "meh" pretty much unanimously acknowledge that this was his best album in a long time, if not ever.
Let's not go overboard.
Don't get me wrong, I think JLB is great on the new album, his best of the RR era for sure, but I don't think it's all that like many people do.
I may be slow, but I don't even understand the last part of your sentence. ??? :rollin (it probably has more to do with me than with your post)
What I meant was that although I think JLB's vocals on TA are excellent, and agree they're his best in a while, I don't think they're god tier as others do, and wouldn't compare them to his absolute best vocals.
I mean no disrespect at all to the phenomenal JLB, because he's done an incredible job on the album, I just think some of his earlier vocals were even more insanely good. It's really more of a comment on just how good JLB has been throughout his career.
And deservedly, he's received nothing but praise for TA here, so I think he's getting plenty of credit. :tup
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He did a fantastic job. But I don't see anyone saying anything less, so I'm not sure what "more" credit he deserves.
I was just going to say that. Even the people who thought the album was "meh" pretty much unanimously acknowledge that this was his best album in a long time, if not ever.
Let's not go overboard.
Don't get me wrong, I think JLB is great on the new album, his best of the RR era for sure, but I don't think it's all that like many people do.
I may be slow, but I don't even understand the last part of your sentence. ??? :rollin (it probably has more to do with me than with your post)
What I meant was that although I think JLB's vocals on TA are excellent, and agree they're his best in a while, I don't think they're god tier as others do, and wouldn't compare them to his absolute best vocals.
I mean no disrespect at all to the phenomenal JLB, because he's done an incredible job on the album, I just think some of his earlier vocals were even more insanely good. It's really more of a comment on just how good JLB has been throughout his career.
And deservedly, he's received nothing but praise for TA here, so I think he's getting plenty of credit. :tup
Oh, OK. I told you it had more to do with me than with your post! :lol And, yeah, JLB is top-notch on TA, but I also think he has better performances on other albums.
B.Lee
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I can name a number of things I don't like about his performance, I feel that he could correct these issues if he would work on them. There are many parts where he just doesn't sing well, in fact I'd say there are more examples on TA where he doesn't bring the resonance forward in his head then there are where he does. I wish he would take a year off and work on his issues before the next album but I know that will never happen.
He used to sing this way when he was tired but his fatigued bad habits have carried over into his non-fatigued singing. His voice has improved but his technique has degraded. I noticed the major change in DT12. This is the first I have mentioned it just because even though JLB is the one that inspired me to sing and I've made peace with his failings.
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There are many parts where he just doesn't sing well, in fact I'd say there are more examples on TA where he doesn't bring the resonance forward in his head then there are where he does.
I think those are consciously-made decisions to give the characters different voices.
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I can name a number of things I don't like about his performance, I feel that he could correct these issues if he would work on them. There are many parts where he just doesn't sing well, in fact I'd say there are more examples on TA where he doesn't bring the resonance forward in his head then there are where he does. I wish he would take a year off and work on his issues before the next album but I know that will never happen.
He used to sing this way when he was tired but his fatigued bad habits have carried over into his non-fatigued singing. His voice has improved but his technique has degraded. I noticed the major change in DT12. This is the first I have mentioned it just because even though JLB is the one that inspired me to sing and I've made peace with his failings.
Cool story, but this is kind of an appreciation thread.
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There are many parts where he just doesn't sing well, in fact I'd say there are more examples on TA where he doesn't bring the resonance forward in his head then there are where he does.
I think those are consciously-made decisions to give the characters different voices.
He's been doing it for the last three albums.
I can name a number of things I don't like about his performance, I feel that he could correct these issues if he would work on them. There are many parts where he just doesn't sing well, in fact I'd say there are more examples on TA where he doesn't bring the resonance forward in his head then there are where he does. I wish he would take a year off and work on his issues before the next album but I know that will never happen.
He used to sing this way when he was tired but his fatigued bad habits have carried over into his non-fatigued singing. His voice has improved but his technique has degraded. I noticed the major change in DT12. This is the first I have mentioned it just because even though JLB is the one that inspired me to sing and I've made peace with his failings.
Cool story, but this is kind of an appreciation thread.
No it's not, the OP says no such thing. Also BlobVanDam is able to voice his opinion on why he thinks they're not as good as many think then I can certainly voice my displeasure with his technique. I didn't bash him nor say he was complete shit on the album. In fact I said his voice has improved.
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TA is truly his masterpiece, but he's been fantastic since he joined on I&W. Every album is diverse vocally. He improves with every recording. What higher praise can one give a vocalist?
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I honestly believe TA is his best work.
I'm also really surprised that some people have complaints about him on this album. I'm usually very critical of singing but I honestly can't find anything wrong here...
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Pretty much, you'd have to be super anal to find fault.
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Pretty much, you'd have to be super anal to find fault.
Or have ears.
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Pretty much, you'd have to be super anal to find fault.
Or have ears.
While we're at it, why not criticize JP for that 64th note that was half a millisecond ahead of the beat. 🙄
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So could you provide examples of specific places on TA where you feel James didn't sing well? I'm honestly really curious.
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I've enjoyed JLB for what he does with my favorite active band. I have a young musician friend who mentioned last year that it might be time for JLB to hang it up. Or in a year or two. A couple of days after TA came out, he had nothing but high praise, of how he really shines on this release. I totally agree. He also sounded like he was having fun, and having fun with it.
Good points made earlier about doing mostly the same setlists for each tour the last five years. That has helped them all in uncounted ways.
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So could you provide examples of specific places on TA where you feel James didn't sing well? I'm honestly really curious.
It's just his general overall technique that he uses anymore, he's not bring the resonance forward and spreading it across his cheek bones and forehead. By doing this it causes him to have a nasal sound and make it difficult to pronounce 'O', 'OO', 'EE' and causes those vowels to be distorted. It causes other issues like all the sliding from note to note and not just hitting the note right on. He does a scoop up to it. I remember people making fun of it on Score when it came out.
An example on TA would be Lord Nafaryus the first 40 seconds. He doesn't bring the sound forward and ends up pulling his chest voice instead of going into a mix and spreads the vowels multiple times.
For comparison "How the rumors are spreading like vines" sounds free and is a proper 'I' sound it's elegant. Where as "Of a man who has been glorified" is pulling chest voice and spreading the word apart. This is because he's pulling the sound back and no allowing it to flow forward and cause a muffled pinched off sound. This happens throughout the album.
Again, i'm not saying he sounds like complete shit. It's just something I notice because he got me into singing and he is a hero of mine. I still listen to the album and I am going to see them this year. Is it is something I wish he would fix? Absolutely but it's not going to stop me from listening.
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Since MP left, to me at least, I've enjoyed his singing better on albums. Maybe having more control was better for him.
Yeah, if MP were part of this project we would have been subjected to his Nafayrius death growls. No thanks.
Or for Arhys:
NOW LET ME INTRODUCE
MY BRUUUTHER!
A BITTER GENTLEMAN - A MUSICIAN!
;)
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So could you provide examples of specific places on TA where you feel James didn't sing well? I'm honestly really curious.
It's just his general overall technique that he uses anymore, he's not bring the resonance forward and spreading it across his cheek bones and forehead. By doing this it causes him to have a nasal sound and make it difficult to pronounce 'O', 'OO', 'EE' and causes those vowels to be distorted. It causes other issues like all the sliding from note to note and not just hitting the note right on. He does a scoop up to it. I remember people making fun of it on Score when it came out.
An example on TA would be Lord Nafaryus the first 40 seconds. He doesn't bring the sound forward and ends up pulling his chest voice instead of going into a mix and spreads the vowels multiple times.
For comparison "How the rumors are spreading like vines" sounds free and is a proper 'I' sound it's elegant. Where as "Of a man who has been glorified" is pulling chest voice and spreading the word apart. This is because he's pulling the sound back and no allowing it to flow forward and cause a muffled pinched off sound. This happens throughout the album.
Again, i'm not saying he sounds like complete shit. It's just something I notice because he got me into singing and he is a hero of mine. I still listen to the album and I am going to see them this year. Is it is something I wish he would fix? Absolutely but it's not going to stop me from listening.
That just seems to be his style though. He even does stuff like it way back on Awake.
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Don't remember him pulling chest voice due to poor resonance being throughout Awake. There are times where he spreads vowels but they weren't due to poor resonance.
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He's earned more than enough credit just on his solo work alone and obviously his career with DT. I don't need albums like DT12 and TA to figure that out.
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Don't remember him pulling chest voice due to poor resonance being throughout Awake. There are times where he spreads vowels but they weren't due to poor resonance.
Well, I'm not a vocalist or an expert on the profession but something like 'glorified' doesn't seem any worse than in the high choruses of LSoaD (on 'Dreaaam'). I don't think JLB is known to have great technique overall anyway, especially in the breathy and nasal parts which are basically the signature aspects of his voice and is what many people actually like about him.
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JLB is terrific on the new record, and his studio voice has aged really well considering the style he normally sings in, but there is no way on God's green earth that you will convince me that it's a better overall performance than I&W (which still stands as his best vocal performance to date, from a full album standpoint, IMO).
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JLB is terrific on the new record, and his studio voice has aged really well considering the style he normally sings in, but there is no way on God's green earth that you will convince me that it's a better overall performance than I&W (which still stands as his best vocal performance to date, from a full album standpoint, IMO).
Of course his performance isn't as impressive as on an abum made 24 years ago, but it's reasonable to think that some people could like the melodies he sings and the way he sings them on TA more than IaW. I'd say IaW is better, but I think it's actually relatively close.
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JLB is terrific on the new record, and his studio voice has aged really well considering the style he normally sings in, but there is no way on God's green earth that you will convince me that it's a better overall performance than I&W (which still stands as his best vocal performance to date, from a full album standpoint, IMO).
Of course his performance isn't as impressive as on an abum made 24 years ago, but it's reasonable to think that some people could like the melodies he sings and the way he sings them on TA more than IaW. I'd say IaW is better, but I think it's actually relatively close.
I&W is almost untouchable, but I think TA has more variation and moods in his vocals.
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JLB is terrific on the new record, and his studio voice has aged really well considering the style he normally sings in, but there is no way on God's green earth that you will convince me that it's a better overall performance than I&W (which still stands as his best vocal performance to date, from a full album standpoint, IMO).
Of course his performance isn't as impressive as on an abum made 24 years ago, but it's reasonable to think that some people could like the melodies he sings and the way he sings them on TA more than IaW. I'd say IaW is better, but I think it's actually relatively close.
I&W is almost untouchable, but I think TA has more variation and moods in his vocals.
I think it's possible TA has more variety in moods and style of vocals than any DT album, with elements I'd love to hear a lot more of in DT. JLB really got to explore and expand his talents on this one.
For melodies though, I'd personally give the edge to IaW. Aside from my controversial exception of LTL (where I think the melodies suffer a bit for the lyrics), I think IaW is absolutely note for note perfect melodically.
Both albums show JLB at the best of his abilities at that respective point in his career.
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I prefer TA, but his vocals on IW are also amazing.
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So could you provide examples of specific places on TA where you feel James didn't sing well? I'm honestly really curious.
It's just his general overall technique that he uses anymore, he's not bring the resonance forward and spreading it across his cheek bones and forehead. By doing this it causes him to have a nasal sound and make it difficult to pronounce 'O', 'OO', 'EE' and causes those vowels to be distorted. It causes other issues like all the sliding from note to note and not just hitting the note right on. He does a scoop up to it. I remember people making fun of it on Score when it came out.
An example on TA would be Lord Nafaryus the first 40 seconds. He doesn't bring the sound forward and ends up pulling his chest voice instead of going into a mix and spreads the vowels multiple times.
For comparison "How the rumors are spreading like vines" sounds free and is a proper 'I' sound it's elegant. Where as "Of a man who has been glorified" is pulling chest voice and spreading the word apart. This is because he's pulling the sound back and no allowing it to flow forward and cause a muffled pinched off sound. This happens throughout the album.
Again, i'm not saying he sounds like complete shit. It's just something I notice because he got me into singing and he is a hero of mine. I still listen to the album and I am going to see them this year. Is it is something I wish he would fix? Absolutely but it's not going to stop me from listening.
I thought I knew what you might have been talking about, but then I got lost on your example. Is it similar to how he shouts certain parts in the higher register? (see Moment of Betrayal final chorus)
But yea, I love JLBs vocal styles, I consider him a good singing teacher actually just by listening to how he expresses his technique, not that I can sing for shit but I have learnt a lot just listening to how he portrays his technique in various styles, this includes the aspect of learning what not to do, have listened to many bootlegs. Although one thing that sometimes got me, is a certain tonal quality that shows up on certain high notes (especially live or on certain harmonies in studio), and it doesn't happen all the time. But SFAM, Mullmuzzler and EoP albums are plagued with it (screeching harmonies) and to a similar extent TOT with a few moments on 6DOIT but not as prominently. Hasn't been as apparent recently apart from final Chorus of Along for the Ride comes to mind and a few parts of The Astonishing have this.
It's inconsistent though cause sometimes I hear it and go, man that octave harmony sounds awesome! :metal And othertimes I'm just like man please stop shouting at me in the background. ::)
EDIT: Yeah it's like he's trying to sound like he did on I&W but it doesn't come across as powerfully. Personally I prefer when it has a bit more grit, ala Awake and some parts of FII.
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Since MP left, to me at least, I've enjoyed his singing better on albums. Maybe having more control was better for him.
I wouldn't put the milestone at MP leaving. I'd put it around the Awake to FII era when JP and MP started tinkering with throwing their singing skills into the mix. I recall in 1994 when JP visited Musicians Institute he was really talking about how he was making great strides in learning how to create *human* vocal melodies. That he was learning things via his interactions with James about how certain interval jumps were difficult with certain vowel sounds. Obviously the easiest way to create vocal melodies v. guitar melodies is to write them vocally. Improving his singing skills helped bridge that divide.
One thing I took away from the Drummer audition video was that JLB had some good musical instincts beyond vocal duties. They should consider bringing him in for some producing duties. Even if on a Jr. level.
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Don't remember him pulling chest voice due to poor resonance being throughout Awake. There are times where he spreads vowels but they weren't due to poor resonance.
Well, I'm not a vocalist or an expert on the profession but something like 'glorified' doesn't seem any worse than in the high choruses of LSoaD (on 'Dreaaam'). I don't think JLB is known to have great technique overall anyway, especially in the breathy and nasal parts which are basically the signature aspects of his voice and is what many people actually like about him.
It's hard to explain and I may not be able to explain to someone who doesn't sing. I'm not trying to be condescending by saying that. It would be like someone trying to explain to me a comparable technique in drumming but I'll try.
For the purpose of this example let's say there are only three gears the voice can be in. Chest voice, mixed voice, and head voice. When vocal folds oscillate you can feel vibrations in your chest, neck/face, eyes and upward wrapping around the head. Regardless of where these vibrations are you need to focus the spread of sound through the bones in the face. James is not properly bringing the focus forward into his face and trapping the quality of the resonance in his throat. By doing this he can't hold notes as long and he slides into the notes a lot instead of hitting them precisely.
I thought I knew what you might have been talking about, but then I got lost on your example. Is it similar to how he shouts certain parts in the higher register? (see Moment of Betrayal final chorus)
Yes, notice how he is putting a lot of effort into it and sliding into each note. It's hard for him to hit the note precisely.
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COuld it be a stylistic choice, though? I know some singers here in our country who like to slide to the notes, instead of hitting them precisely, because it gives the singing some character. It's a deliberate technique I hear in some some styles, like in traditional Japanese songs.
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Sounds completely stylistic to me. Imagining it without the slides, it would just sound bland imo.
He's in the studio environment, with the benefit of studio touch ups. If he wanted it to sound straight up, he could and would have done so.
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Sounds completely stylistic to me. Imagining it without the slides, it would just sound bland imo.
He's in the studio environment, with the benefit of studio touch ups. If he wanted it to sound straight up, he could and would have done so.
Agreed. I've heard live performances where it sounds like a mistake, but this doesn't sound like a mistake to me, just expression.
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Don't remember him pulling chest voice due to poor resonance being throughout Awake. There are times where he spreads vowels but they weren't due to poor resonance.
Well, I'm not a vocalist or an expert on the profession but something like 'glorified' doesn't seem any worse than in the high choruses of LSoaD (on 'Dreaaam'). I don't think JLB is known to have great technique overall anyway, especially in the breathy and nasal parts which are basically the signature aspects of his voice and is what many people actually like about him.
It's hard to explain and I may not be able to explain to someone who doesn't sing. I'm not trying to be condescending by saying that. It would be like someone trying to explain to me a comparable technique in drumming but I'll try.
For the purpose of this example let's say there are only three gears the voice can be in. Chest voice, mixed voice, and head voice. When vocal folds oscillate you can feel vibrations in your chest, neck/face, eyes and upward wrapping around the head. Regardless of where these vibrations are you need to focus the spread of sound through the bones in the face. James is not properly bringing the focus forward into his face and trapping the quality of the resonance in his throat. By doing this he can't hold notes as long and he slides into the notes a lot instead of hitting them precisely.
I thought I knew what you might have been talking about, but then I got lost on your example. Is it similar to how he shouts certain parts in the higher register? (see Moment of Betrayal final chorus)
Yes, notice how he is putting a lot of effort into it and sliding into each note. It's hard for him to hit the note precisely.
I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I've had vocal training, I know exactly the mechanisms you're referring to and yes, they are important when trying to give a performance.
So with that in mind... A singer using perfect technique all the time does not automatically equate to a "Good" singer. Just like a guitar player using perfect fingering and picking all the time doesn't mean he's automatically a "Good" guitar player, either. He may be able to play, but it's his stylistic choices when using those techniques is what makes that musician someone you like to listen to. And many times, abandoning perfect adherence to those techniques is where your style comes from.
Oddly enough, I'm in the camp that JP was a rather "Soulless" guitar player with no emotion until the COS release. He could play with amazing technique, but his solo's sounded robotic and too perfect to me, missing a lot of that human element of stylistic emotion until about COS to my ears. Doesn't mean I don't love I&W or Awake... I do.
Freddy Mercury, Chris Cornell, Geoff Tate, Bruce Dickenson, Rob Halford, David Bowie, John Lennon.... None of these people use perfect technique either yet are regarded as some of the top male rock vocalists through modern times. Why? Because of their stylistic choices that fit their voice. Not that they had perfect sense when to engage their head voice 100% of the time. They sang what they felt fit the music.
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Don't remember him pulling chest voice due to poor resonance being throughout Awake. There are times where he spreads vowels but they weren't due to poor resonance.
Well, I'm not a vocalist or an expert on the profession but something like 'glorified' doesn't seem any worse than in the high choruses of LSoaD (on 'Dreaaam'). I don't think JLB is known to have great technique overall anyway, especially in the breathy and nasal parts which are basically the signature aspects of his voice and is what many people actually like about him.
It's hard to explain and I may not be able to explain to someone who doesn't sing. I'm not trying to be condescending by saying that. It would be like someone trying to explain to me a comparable technique in drumming but I'll try.
For the purpose of this example let's say there are only three gears the voice can be in. Chest voice, mixed voice, and head voice. When vocal folds oscillate you can feel vibrations in your chest, neck/face, eyes and upward wrapping around the head. Regardless of where these vibrations are you need to focus the spread of sound through the bones in the face. James is not properly bringing the focus forward into his face and trapping the quality of the resonance in his throat. By doing this he can't hold notes as long and he slides into the notes a lot instead of hitting them precisely.
I thought I knew what you might have been talking about, but then I got lost on your example. Is it similar to how he shouts certain parts in the higher register? (see Moment of Betrayal final chorus)
Yes, notice how he is putting a lot of effort into it and sliding into each note. It's hard for him to hit the note precisely.
I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I've had vocal training, I know exactly the mechanisms you're referring to and yes, they are important when trying to give a performance.
So with that in mind... A singer using perfect technique all the time does not automatically equate to a "Good" singer. Just like a guitar player using perfect fingering and picking all the time doesn't mean he's automatically a "Good" guitar player, either. He may be able to play, but it's his stylistic choices when using those techniques is what makes that musician someone you like to listen to. And many times, abandoning perfect adherence to those techniques is where your style comes from.
I agree with all of this, but I don't think it is completely applicable to Labrie's situation. Bowie and Lennon had very limited technique, so they developed their style to work around these problems, which made them sound good in the end. Labrie's vocal style is however much more challenging and requires much more technique. Unfortunately, in Labrie's case I'd say his technique is often insufficient to support the stylistic choices he makes. I'd say that usually a singer will only sound good when the amount of technique he/she has is sufficient for the style they want to sing in.
I also wanted to note that James is rarely disliked for his studio performances; it's his live performances that get criticized. And to be fair, James is very, very inconsistent live. Many parts of the last few live releases required extensive autotune and overdubbing. The same is true for Chris Cornell, Freddie Mercury, etc. it's just that with the advent of Youtube it's easier to criticize singers, and having a fanbase largely consisting of musicians doesn't help either. This is why I feel JLB sometimes doesn't get credit.
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If I quoted you guys and responded individually I think I would end up repeating my self so I'll say this.
- The sliding
- The sound of the note hitting a wall when he reaches his passagio
- The poor exit or dismount off of notes
- Spreading the vowel (it's worse than LSoaD as you can hear the resonance in his face and the EE sound in the note)
- The yelling each note when hitting higher notes
- The EXCESSIVE breathy tone. There is a huge difference in his breathy tone from even TOT.
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If I listened to the album and the last three or so I'm sure I'd notice more. This is not a style issue this is a resonance issue, he is keeping it pulled back in his throat and not allowing it to flow forward. His voice has not deteriorated if anything it has improved, it's just the resonance. If he took a year off and focus on bring it forward I guarantee without a doubt that you would hear Scenes quality even almost Images quality (getting old is a bitch). You also wouldn't see him tire out so quickly on tour. I'm surprised he doesn't get headaches from teh amount of push he must do.
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Does he tire out quickly on tour? I was under the impression that he gets better as the tour progresses.
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Does he tire out quickly on tour? I was under the impression that he gets better as the tour progresses.
Maybe I phrased that poorly. You would see him have extended endurance as singing would become easier. Giving him less off nights or his off nights would be less noticeable.
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Does he tire out quickly on tour? I was under the impression that he gets better as the tour progresses.
He definitely improves at the start of the tour as he gets more practiced. Sometimes by the end of a tour it can take its toll, but he's fairly consistent these days.
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As a studio singer? Yes, he's great.
As a live performer/frontman? hmm... I've had better.
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As a studio singer? Yes, he's great.
As a live performer/frontman? hmm... I've had better.
Oh Jesus, I thought that was coming from Nicki Spansomeletters for a moment :lol
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Bowie and Lennon had very limited technique, so they developed their style to work around these problems, which made them sound good in the end.
I always thought Bowie had very limited technique, until I heard "Nature Boy" (from the Moulin Rouge Soundtrack). Impressive range that I hadn't ever heard from him elsewhere.
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Not even on Wild is the wind? or word on a wing?
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I give him great credit. I mean, not only does he front the biggest progressive metal on Earth, but he even finds the time to run a B&B back in Canada.
He's had problems with scaring the guests, though. I understand when they check in, he stares at them and shouts "HEED MY WORDS, BREAKFAST WILL BE SERVED"
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I give him great credit. I mean, not only does he front the biggest progressive metal on Earth, but he even finds the time to run a B&B back in Canada.
He's had problems with scaring the guests, though. I understand when they check in, he stares at them and shouts "HEED MY WORDS, BREAKFAST WILL BE SERVED"
LOL seriously? :rollin
If so, I'd love to visit.
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'So, how about some fried eggs and Franks, eh?' Especially Special!! :rollin
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he is simply amazing on the astonishing my 11 year old likes him that's not easy but with songs like chosen, and off his great solo effort back on the ground, our car journeys are more varied at least I get the kids into it
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I give him great credit. I mean, not only does he front the biggest progressive metal on Earth, but he even finds the time to run a B&B back in Canada.
He's had problems with scaring the guests, though. I understand when they check in, he stares at them and shouts "HEED MY WORDS, BREAKFAST WILL BE SERVED"
That's a place where you quietly lay and wait for sleep, and the alarm goes off at 6'o'clock!
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What the hell? How did this happen? :rollin
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I wouldn't say James deserves more credit but he definitely deserves less blame.
The guy hits one wrong note and gets jumped on for it. People who slag him for mistakes seem to forget that the human voice is affected by pretty much everything... age, cankers, temperature, humidity, smoke, altitude, health, etc whereas physical instruments will sound the same no matter what and it takes an actual injury to the player to mess that up. Look at Petrucci: he had a cold during SCORE and I've read other times when he's been too sick to do much other than go right to bed after a show to rest but during the show you'd never even notice.
I think it's cuz everyone has a voice but not everyone plays an instrument. What I mean is that, as a guitar player, I can hear when Petrucci or Satch or Blahblah mess up, but a non-guitar player (certainly a non-musician) might not be able to unless it's huge flub. People can relate to vocals and therefore can more easily pick out any mistakes. It's also why I think shows like The Voice are so popular, cuz everyone can relate to them, but similarly-based instrumental shows would fail except for people who can. I'm not a drummer but I always read about the drummers here pointing out little flubs MP and MM do, things I could never pick out unless someone told me.
So, yeah, not more credit, but way less bashing.
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I am watching a YT video of a show in Hannover right now, and the vocal performance is very similar to the Boston one. Good to excellent in the mid-to-low register, struggling throughout the high register.